1 u.s. department of treasury 2 bureau of alcohol, …

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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS TAPE #17 March 2, 1993

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(Margarita holding the phone, not speaking into the receiver)

MARGARITA: (indiscernible) Just a minute David.

(indiscernible) Wait a minute, David, wait a minute

David. Put all these things in (indiscernible) you

and (indiscernible). Can you pull all those things in

so I can close the door? Yeah, thanks, Rebecca.

(indiscernible). Over there. I'm a coward, I can't

see this (indiscernible) until I walk out with her.

I'm a coward. Hum? See you, David. Oh, no. [gap]

How long we got sitting (indiscernible) now, no point

in me coming. Even if he is (indiscernible).

(indiscernible). [gap] Oh, yeah. (indiscernible).

That is good ice cream, eh? (laughs) (indiscernible).

Don't drop the phone. It sounded like a

(indiscernible). Tell me if I can.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (indiscernible)

MARGARITA: Okay. Oh, no. I feel that a

(indiscernible) what you want?


(Background noise/indiscernible)

MARGARITA: No, what happened to all his nice

ones. Hey, buddy, I see you over there. [Gap]

MARGARITA: I think I'm going to pass out.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Huh?

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MARGARITA: I said it looks like I'm going to

pass out. (indiscernible)


MARGARITA: (indiscernible) I got some blanket

here. I need more. Here- here-here-here-here.

(indiscernible) wait (indiscernible). Can't have this

stuff in here. David is impossible. Wait, wait,

wait. (untranslated) (indiscernible)


MARGARITA: Yeah, (indiscernible). [gap]

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (indiscernible)?

MARGARITA: He's a fantastic dude, man, I tell

you. I wouldn't (indiscernible) if you ever forget to

(indiscernible). He's a fantastic guy. I just love

(indiscernible).


(Background voices indiscernible)

[gap]

MARGARITA: I can't wait till I get out of here.


MARGARITA: Wait till I get out of here.


MARGARITA: (indiscernible)

(Background voices indiscernible)


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[Gap]

JIM: Margarite?

MARGARITA: Yeah?

JIM: This is Jim.

MARGARITA: Okay.

JIM: What's going on in there?

MARGARITA: Well, just hang on, just a few more

people, okay?

JIM: Oh -- are they still going to see David?

MARGARITA: A, yeah, there's still, maybe about

five or six more people.

JIM: Well take your time.

MARGARITA: Okay.

JIM: Take your time. Okay.

MARGARITA: Thank you.

JIM: Right.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Yeah you can

talk to (indiscernible). (indiscernible)

[Gap]

MARGARITA: Sometimes (indiscernible) in the

(indiscernible).



[Gap]

MARGARITA: No-no-no-no, don't, don't

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(indiscernible). (indiscernible)

[Gap]

MARGARITA: This is even better than Elvis

Presley, man.


MARGARITA: I said this is even better than Elvis

Presley. (Laughs) The king wasn't half this king.

(indiscernible) doesn't matter, they can take their

time because you know how it is.

JIM: Margarite?

MARGARITA: Yeah.

JIM: How you doing in there?

MARGARITA: I'm doing fine. Trying to be strong,

saying good-byes, not my fun.

JIM: That's good. Is anybody else left to see

David?

MARGARITA: A, yeah, he's telling, giving some,

you know, telling people, that a, don't worry, you

know.

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: Okay?

JIM: When he's --

MARGARITA: Once he -- they start moving him

down, I'll tell you.

JIM: Well, before he leaves --

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MARGARITA: Uh-huh.

JIM: -- when the last person says good-bye, I

have to talk to David.

MARGARITA: Okay.

JIM: I have to talk to David then.

MARGARITA: All right. Okay.

JIM TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (indiscernible)

JIM: Okay. How long will that be till I can

talk to him?

MARGARITA: Well he's just giving some last

minute instructions. Say in about 3, 4 minutes?

JIM: Oh 3,4 minutes? Be great.

MARGARITA: Okay. Thank you. (whispering) Tell

him he wants to talk to him before he -- before we put

him -- yeah.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (indiscernible)

Okay, let me talk to him.

MARGARITE: Jim, Jim?

JIM: Yeah, Margarite.

MARGARITA: Jim? Okay, I think he's saying his

last farewell. Just a minute okay?

JIM: Okay.

DAVID: Yeah, Jim?

JIM: David, how are you?

DAVID: A, some of the gals are just getting kind

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of jeery, a, jittery, and stuff, and I'm tellin 'em ya

know, that, you know, we just gotta, you know, we've

come this far, the message got out --

JIM: Right.

DAVID: -- and we've got to do our part in it, as

a body. That's what the whole church is all about.

JIM: Exactly.

DAVID: So you know, they're --

JIM: That's, that's real good.

DAVID: Well you know, the thing of it is, is you

know, they've, they've exercised the faith and stuff,

and now they're concerned about the consequences. But

--

JIM: That's right--

DAVID: -- you know, we just gotta, we gotta get

'em settled down.

JIM: That's right, they got to be safe.

DAVID: Right.

JIM: What you need -- everything's arranged, and

what you need to do, it's very important to me--

DAVID: Uh-huh.

JIM: -- because of our good communication --

DAVID: Right.

JIM: -- and our relationship. And our trust.

That you talk to Steve --

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DAVID: Right.

JIM: -- for me --

DAVID: Okay.

JIM: -- while, while we're here.

DAVID: All right.

JIM: And you tell Steve, that whatever Jim says

is what you're -- is what he's got to do. Okay?

DAVID: Okay.

JIM: Because what happens David, is when you're

not around, you know, Steve says well I gotta ask

David if that's okay. And of course, it's all stuff

you and I already talked about. You know what I mean?

DAVID: Right, right.

JIM: But what I'm saying is, when you're

outside, he can't go to you. And I don't want him to

balk. In other words you got to tell him, look, I

trust Jim implicitly, whatever instructions he give

you is for our safety --

DAVID: Right.

JIM: -- there will be no mistakes, do exactly as

he tells you, don't try to change the plan. You know

-- argue the details, he's just going to get you out

safe and just do what he says, okay?

DAVID: Okay. Where's Steve at right now?

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Right here.

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DAVID TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Bring him here.


DAVID TO JIM: Okay tell Steve what you was

telling me, all right?

JIM: No you tell him, you have to tell him.

DAVID TO STEVE: Okay Steve look, now, Jim's

carried us through this far, right?

STEVE: Okay.

DAVID TO STEVE: So, once I get taken out --

STEVE: Right.

DAVID: -- you know, understand, and tell

everybody --

STEVE: All right.

DAVID: -- that from that point, see, I'm out of

the way, they upheld their part of the bargain and

we're upholding ours.

STEVE: Okay.

DAVID: Okay? And now that's, like I said, you

know, the guys are -- they're talking about they're

worried about the aftermath. Well, the conscious is

have redone the truth as we've understood it in God.

STEVE: That's correct.

DAVID: So, you know, you gotta --

JIM: David tell him --

DAVID TO JIM: Yes--

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JIM: -- tell him specifically that whatever

instructions Jim gives him --

DAVID: Okay.

JIM: -- he must follow exactly, and that he does

not need to ne-- to discuss it -- I'm going to give

him the safe conduct preparations.

DAVID: Okay.

JIM: Okay. And it'll be similar to what we're

doing with you, but, I don't want him to say, well I

don't know if I want to do it that way or I don't know

if Da -- just tell him do whatever Jim tells you,

exactly.

DAVID: Okay.

JIM: Just tell him right now.

DAVID: Okay.

DAVID TO STEVE: Whatever, whatever Jim says

after I'm outside, right?

STEVE: Right.

DAVID: Then just, just follow the instructions -

- JIM: Exactly.

DAVID TO STEVE: -- and you know, gotta get all

these guys to listen. I mean, you know --

JIM: Yeah, David, David --

DAVID TO JIM: Yeah?

JIM: We're, we're just concerned that, you know,

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Steve might say, well that's not what David told me.

You know, or that's not what he wanted -- you just --

DAVID: No, well, I, like okay --

DAVID TO STEVE: Steve, whatever he tells you --

JIM: That's it.

DAVID TO STEVE: Okay?

JIM: That's

DAVID TO STEVE: When I'm out, then let's just do

that.

JIM: Just do that.

DAVID TO JIM: Okay, now just let me have a

couple more minutes and talk to all these guys and re-

emphasis the reasons of this okay?

JIM: Okay and tell them they got a thousand

percent, guaranteed safety, just, just do it slowly,

what we say, no problem.

DAVID TO JIM: Okey doke.

JIM: Okay, now, when you're through with them, I

want you to put Steve on the phone --

DAVID: All right.

JIM: -- you stay there with him, and then we're

going to tell you when to walk out.

DAVID: Okey doke.

JIM: Okay.

DAVID: Okay, bye.

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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Margarita?

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Margarita?

MARGARITA: Yeah? Okay.

MARGARITA TO JIM: Hello, Jim?

JIM: Yes, this is Jim.

MARGARITA: Hi, this is Margarita, I'm, I just

want to make sure I'm back with you.

JIM: Yeah, okay.

MARGARITA: That's all.

JIM: Now just hold on.

MARGARITA: Okay.

JIM: Just holler if you want me.

MARGARITA: All right.

[Gap]

MARGARITA: Jim? Jim?

JIM: Yeah Margarite.

MARGARITA: Jim I have so many questions this

little, a, children here, they want to know if they

could take a few puppies with them.

JIM: Puppies?

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON/MALE/JIM-SIDE: Not now.

JIM: I tell you what.

MARGARITA: Uh-huh.

JIM: Let's not do that. We don't want to

complicate it.

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MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: They said that

they don't want to complicate things.

JIM: We'll, we'll have the, the puppies taken

care of later. Just let us deal with that later,

we're concerned about --

MARGARITA: How about if we just carry one, just

one.

JIM: One, one puppy?

MARGARITA: Um-hum.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Each one

puppy? Oh.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: It'll keep them calm.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Oh, oh.

MARGARITA TO JIM: You know these puppies just,

they were just born about a few days ago, you know?

And they, the kids just want to carry them.

JIM: Well, well we'll get somebody to take care

of them. If you leave them there tell them they'll be

taken care of.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: He say he

promises to take care of the puppies. He doesn't want

us to carry any puppies.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: He's going to take care of

the puppies?

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: I know the

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kids want to carry it, I'm trying to talk to him.

JIM: Yeah, hey Margarite?

MARGARITA TO JIM: Yeah, um-hum.

JIM: The, the puppies should stay with their

mother. Just leave them there with their mother.

MARGARITA: Ahh!

JIM: Just leave them there with their mother,

and, and we'll be okay and then after you're out,

we'll take care of them, make sure they're safe.

MARGARITA: Just a minute, we have the person who

takes care of the puppies here, okay, just a minute.

Greg.

GREG: Hey Jim? Is it Jim? Jim? Wait, wait,

came unplugged.

JIM: Hello?

GREG: Jim?

JIM: Yeah.

GREG: Hi, this is Greg.

JIM: Hey Greg.

GREG: Hey Jim. Um (sighs), these kids would

really like to a -- I mean, something that's been

really keeping them all together and real happy and

joyful and everything are these little puppies and

they were just born about a little over a week ago and

it would, it would be very encouraging for them, you

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know, just to hold a puppy and --

JIM: Well I understand. How many puppies are we

talking about?

GREG: There's eleven puppies.

JIM: Eleven puppies.

GREG: And they're just, I mean, they're just

little itty bitty things.

JIM: Little bitty things --

GREG: And they're just little fur-balls and

they're just, you know, very precious to the kids and

I think it would keep their minds, you know --

JIM: Don't you think it would be easier though

to care for the puppies there where their mother is?

And then after, you know, you guys are all out safely,

you know, we can make sure that you're taken care of

safely?

GREG: Well you know, I'm, I'm, I'm looking at

the fact that the children are, you know, they're

always first --

JIM: Yeah, the children are first and your main

concern is their safety, I'm sure.

GREG: Oh, exactly.

JIM: And, I don't want to do anything that would

complicate their safety -- and I would hate -- a puppy

runs off and a child chases it --

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GREG: No, no, no, actually the puppies aren't

even really walking yet, that wouldn't really be a

problem, and it would keep, you know, it would keep

their attention off of your big equipment and stuff.

JIM: Oh!

GREG: You know that stuff's kind of scary.

JIM: Well I understand that, but, is there some

other way, we can put them all in one place, and do

they have a safe place we could put them?

GREG: Well did you want them to carry it in a

box or something, or?

JIM: I'd rather you just leave them there with

their mother and I give you my word that we'll make

sure they're taken care of, they'll be safe. You

know, once everyone's out, we'll, we'll, insure

they're taken care of. I'll give you -- just tell all

the children that and guarantee them. Say Jim says

he'll insure the puppies are okay.

GREG: Okay let me ask the kids okay? Can you

hold on just a second?

GREG TO MARGARITA: Hold onto the phone, let me

ask the kids.

MARGARITA TO GREG: Yeah, ask those kids.

MARGARITA TO JIM: Jim? Sorry to be so

complicated, but, you know, he does everything for the

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kids, you know that.

JIM: Yeah, a Margar --

MARGARITA TO JIM: Yeah?

JIM: We'll get, we'll get the puppies later.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: They'll get

the puppies later.

JIM: Just leave them there.

GREG: Jim?

JIM: Yeah.

GREG: Okay, we'll, we'll go ahead and do that.

JIM: Okay, good.

GREG: At your request.

JIM: All right. I appreciate it.

GREG: All right?

JIM: It's the best thing.

GREG: Yeah.

JIM: We'll make sure they're safe.

GREG: Okay.

JIM: Trust me.

GREG: They'll see them shortly anyway.

JIM: Trust me.

GREG: All right, thanks.

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: Okay Jim, I'm sorry to be so

complicated.

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JIM: Oh it's no problem. It's no problem.

MARGARITA: Okay, all right.

JIM: Now, is David ready?

MARGARITA: Yeah, I think he's about, you know,

you know all these -- lots of kids are still here and

they just hug him and you know how they hang on to

him, cause he's --

JIM: All right well let me talk to him. They're

going with him anyway. Let me talk to him.

MARGARITA: Okay just a minute. Okay, just a

minute.

DAVID: I'm sorry, Jim --

JIM: No, hey, not --

DAVID: -- all this slow-poke stuff--

JIM: Hey there's nothing to apologize for.

DAVID: Oh, thanks.

JIM: Listen. Are you ready?

DAVID: Yeah, we're getting ready. It's like I

say, there's some guys seem to have a little

jitterness about 'em.

JIM: Well just reassure them and let's do it. I

think once they see you safely did it they'll realize

that they'll have the courage to do it too.

DAVID: Right.

JIM: And just tell them, say look, I'm not

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asking you to do anything I wouldn't do first and I'm

going first --

DAVID: Right.

JIM: -- and you know, you, you'll be able to get

going. Once we get started everything will be all

right.

DAVID: Okey doke.

JIM: Okay. Now, are you ready to leave now?

DAVID: Yeah, pretty quick. We just getting a

last few things together and stuff and like I said I

just gotta make sure some of these guys don't do

something stupid.

JIM: Yeah well you need to lead the flock out

and we don't want to have darkness settle on us, we,

we'd prefer to do this in the light.

DAVID: Okay.

JIM: It's quarter to four, so what I'd like you

to do is tell the men that and let's get rolling.

DAVID: Okey doke.

JIM: Safe for everybody if we do it, let's go.

DAVID: Okay thanks. Bye.

JIM: All right. Now I'll be here, now, stay on

the line -- put Steve on.

DAVID: Oh, okay.

DAVID TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSONS: Where's Steve?

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UNIDENTIFIED PERSONS: Steve!

MARGARITA TO DAVID: He's coming over.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Steve.

JIM TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Right.

JIM TO DAVID: Hey, David?

STEVE: Hello?

JIM: Steve?

STEVE: Yes, Jim.

JIM: Okay. Now just like we agreed. You're

going to stay there.

STEVE: Right. I'm staying here.

JIM: And you're going to be our contact, and --

STEVE: Exactly.

JIM: -- you're going to be the last man out.

STEVE TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: You want to finish

talking to him?

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Go in the room.

STEVE TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Okay, okay.

JIM: I want them to start walking out.

STEVE: Now.

JIM: Right now.

STEVE: Okay now, they're, he's still, they

haven't start moving him over there on the cot yet.

JIM: Okay.

STEVE: Okay?

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JIM: What's the hold up?

STEVE: Well they got him dressed and he wanted

everybody, you know, he wanted to get his pants on.

JIM: Well that's okay.

STEVE: Yeah, and so they had, everybody had to

get away of course so he had some privacy.

JIM: Right.

STEVE: And a, now he's ready though.

JIM: Okay. Well you --

STEVE: They're going to start moving him on

there.

JIM: -- right. You speed the guys up, tell,

them let's go.

STEVE: Well that's what I, you, you know, oh man

I tell you what, you know, trying to keep all these

people together, what a task.

JIM: Okay. Now, remember who's coming out.

STEVE: Right.

JIM: Four male -- men carrying David.

STEVE: And just the women with the children and

only as many women as that need to carry the children.

JIM: Children, right. And then as many --

STEVE: Ya, we got it --

JIM: -- children as you want.

STEVE: -- we got it.

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JIM: You got it.

STEVE: Okay. He's just asking for me now so

I'll just leave you with Margarita and I'm just going

to make sure -- someone else was asking me a question,

I don't want -- there's at least 4 or 5 guys here

that, that actually was terrifying me because they

always, you know what I mean,they, they get so nervous

that --

JIM: They'll, they'll be okay. Once we start

the process, everything will be all right.

STEVE: Yeah, well that's what I'm going for, you

know.

JIM: And they'll see that and that's why we want

to get it started.

STEVE: Exactly. Exactly. Okay here's, here's

Margarita.

JIM: Okay.

STEVE: Okay. I'll be right back.

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: Hello?

JIM: Hey Margarite.

MARGARITA: Yeah.

JIM: Okay just hold on and holler if you need

me.

MARGARITA: Okay.

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[Gap]

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON:

(indiscernible) JIM: Margarite?

MARGARITA: Yeah.

JIM: Steve there?

MARGARITA: Steve? No, he's gone to do something

for, for David.

JIM: Did they leave?

MARGARITA: A, they're walking down.

JIM: They're walking down?

MARGARITA: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON/MALE/JIM-SIDE: That's it.

MARGARITA: Well you know they gotta carry him.

JIM: They're going down the stairs?

MARGARITA: Yeah, they got to go down the steps,

and he's on the second floor, you know?

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: Okay?

JIM: Have they already went down the stairs?

MARGARITA: Um yeah, they're, they're, boy it's

kind of hard, isn't it?

JIM: Yeah.

MARGARITA: Sorry that I'm so emotional, but --

JIM: Oh that's okay, I understand.

MARGARITA: -- but, hey. (sob)

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JIM: It's the right thing to do, and you're --

everybody's going to be safe, nobody will be hurt.

MARGARITA: Yeah. Yeah, okay.

JIM: Just take a few minutes to go through the

process with us, and it'll all be fine.

MARGARITA: Thank you.

JIM: Um-hum. Don't worry, just hang in there.

MARGARITA: Okay, okay.

JIM: Can you, can you see out the front window?

MARGARITA: Just a minute, let me walk out there,

just a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON/MALE/JIM-SIDE:

(indiscernible)

JIM TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Yeah. She said

they're going downstairs.

MARGARITA TO JIM: Are you there?

JIM: Yeah, um-hum.

MARGARITA: Yeah, no I got to walk out to the

window and try to look out the window, just a minute

okay?

JIM: Yeah walk and see if they're out there.

MARGARITA: Yeah, okay.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: No I can

stretch just a little.

MARGARITA TO JIM: Hello?

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25

JIM: Yeah.

MARGARITA: Where are you?

JIM: Me?

MARGARITA: Yeah.

JIM: Oh, I'm at the airport.

MARGARITA: Oh then, how --

JIM: I, I can't see from there.

MARGARITA: Oh, you mean you --

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: -- he's out on

the front door yard.

JIM: Yeah.

MARGARITA: Oh, no, no. Okay, I'll tell you when

I see him out the front door, okay?

JIM: Oh, okay, yeah.


JIM: Where's -- Steve is with him?

MARGARITA: Yeah. Well he's his right hand man,

you know? Just a minute.

JIM: He's saying good-bye? Well I need to talk

to Steve.

MARGARITA: Okay. Let me see if I can get him to

come, come back here or something, okay?

JIM: Okay, I'll be here.


[Gap]

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26

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still on the line?

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON:

(indiscernible) to speak to Steve. Make sure Steve

stays here (indiscernible).

[Gap]


JIM: Margarite?

MARGARITA: Yeah?

JIM: What are they doing?

MARGARITA: Well they're trying, trying to find

Steve for you.

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: Okay?

JIM: Can you see out the window?

MARGARITA: A -- no.

JIM: Go look and see if he left.

MARGARITA: Okay. Just a minute.

MARGARITA TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: See if he's

out the window. See if he's gone down the staircase

for me.

[Gap]

JIM: Margarite?

JIM TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: She went to look out

the window.

[Gap]

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27

MARGARITA: Jim?

JIM: Yeah.

MARGARITA: Walking through all these crowd is

not really easy.

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: Okay? So a he's trying to -- I, I

waved for him, I went down myself to go get him.

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: And a --

JIM: A big crowd of people?

MARGARITA: Yeah, sure. Got a lot of people but

I don't, don't give, don't ask me to give you a count

cause you know?

JIM: That's okay, where's David now?

MARGARITA: David's there.

JIM: At the front door?

MARGARITA: No, not at the front door yet. You

see the staircase is like a U-shape like that?

JIM: Okay.

MARGARITA: And it's like, you know, going down

like that.

JIM: So they're going down now?

MARGARITA: Yeah.

JIM: They're halfway down?

MARGARITA: Well, yeah. I, when I caught him he

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28

was like just going down the first flight, you know?

JIM: One flight down.

MARGARITA: Yeah. Okay?

JIM: Okay. And one more --

MARGARITA: And the thing is, he's very painful,

you know, you know --

JIM: Slow cause he hurts.

MARGARITA: Yeah, you know, he's been here for a

few days and you know how it is --

JIM: Sure, I understand.

MARGARITA: -- please for, forgive all this

slowness.

JIM: Hey, it's forgiven, it's, don't even have

to say that. We just -- no apologies are necessary.

MARGARITA: We really appreciate all the things

you've done for us, Jim.

JIM: Yeah, well, don't worry.

MARGARITA: Okay?

JIM: We're just trying to help you.

MARGARITA: Just a minute.

MARGARITA TO SCOTT: Scott, did you say you want

to have a word with him?

MARGARITA TO JIM: Just a minute.

SCOTT: Hello, Jim? Hello? (Breathing heavy)

JIM: This is Jim.

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29

SCOTT: Hi.

JIM: Is this Scott?

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: How you doing?

SCOTT: Remember I talked to you a little while

earlier?

JIM: Yeah, how you doing?

SCOTT: I'm doing okay. I just wanted to thank

you for everything and we really appreciate it, we

heard it on the phone.

JIM: Everything's going to be all right. Okay?

SCOTT: Yeah, well, we're just worried, that's

all.

JIM: No, I understand and I appreciate and I

sympathize with your feelings. But everything's

great. There's nothing to worry about. You are in

tremendous shape. This is going to go smooth as silk.

You have to believe me and you have to trust in me.

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: Okay? And if you trust in me, and David

and I have a bond, we've never, we've never broken,

you'll see that this will work just as smooth as, as

silk.

SCOTT: All right.

JIM: Okay? And if anybody's apprehensive, you

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30

know, I'm counting on you to pull them in and say you

got to trust Jim. David trusts him, Steve trusts him.

They trust each other. We've got to do this

together. We're all going to be fine.

SCOTT: Right.

JIM: Okay? It's going to be fine.

SCOTT: Okay.

JIM: So, you just got to slow down and slow the

guys down --

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: -- take a deep breath and it's all going to

be just smooth as silk.

SCOTT: Yeah, hey thanks a lot Steve, I mean,

Dave, I mean -- sorry!

JIM: That's okay.

SCOTT: I got (indiscernible).

JIM: That's okay. All right.

SCOTT: Jim, here's Steve.

JIM: Okay.

STEVE: Jim.

JIM: Hey Steve.

STEVE: Yeah. (Whispers) I'm still waiting on

David, he's, he wanted silence for himself there.

JIM: Oh, is he on the landing?

STEVE: No, he's right now, he's, he just asked

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31

everybody just to give him a moment here. They were

going to start helping him on and he started, he had a

lot of, he had a lot of pain.

JIM: Oh, okay.

STEVE: And --

JIM: I understand.

STEVE: Yeah, he hasn't moved since that

happened.

JIM: Yeah, okay. He got a lot of pain.

STEVE: Yeah, lot of pain. He, I don't know much

about the medical aspects, but --

JIM: Well look he's, he's not even 500 feet away

from that ambulance.

STEVE: Okay.

JIM: So if they'll just go ahead and move him

out --

STEVE: Right, right.

JIM: -- we're going to get him that medical help

immediately.

STEVE: Okay.

JIM: Okay? So I think --

STEVE: Let, let me try to get out there and see

if I can't get, if he's not ready, if I can't get

these guys, cause, a, time to me, a the guys just --

JIM: I don't mind you going, I'll tell you what-

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32

- STEVE: Aw, it's that moaning and groaning, you

know, when you start moving the guy.

JIM: Let's, let's get, okay --

STEVE: What would you say the --

JIM: -- let's get him in the ambulance.

STEVE: -- okay. The best way to do it is just

slide, just put that cot down and just try to slide

him over with a blanket or something, I would imagine,

right?

JIM: Okay, yeah, yeah. We'll work that out.

What'll probably happen is, when you lay him on the

ground, we'll keep him on the stretcher.

STEVE: Okay.

JIM: We won't move him, you know, we'll put him

-- let us take care of that.

STEVE: Okay.

JIM: The faster he gets out, the faster he gets

help.

STEVE: Right, right, okay.

JIM: So, you can leave the phone --

STEVE: Okay.

JIM: -- but only for the reason to go tell them

--

STEVE: Right, right.

JIM: -- let's get David to the ambulance.

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33

STEVE: Exactly. So Scott and I both are going

to go back and forth on this. I'm with, I'm with

Scott here.

JIM: Okay. He's going to stay with you, that's

fine.

STEVE: Yeah.

JIM: When he leaves, you leave Scott with me.

STEVE: Right, exactly.

JIM: Tell them to get going and then come back

to me.

STEVE: Exactly.

JIM: Okay Steve.

STEVE: Sounds good to me.

JIM: Okay good.

STEVE: Okay here's Scott again.

JIM: Okay.

STEVE: So I'll be back and forth here.

JIM: Okay.

STEVE: Here's Scott.

JIM: All right.

SCOTT: How's it going?

JIM: It's going to go real good, it's going to

go smooth.

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: What's the weather doing out there, is it

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34

clear?

SCOTT TO UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Is it clear

outside?

SCOTT TO JIM: Yeah, it's sunny.

JIM: Okay. I don't have a window here.

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: So at least it's not raining and cold on

us, so we can -- for the children.

SCOTT: Yeah, I had to go over to the window

cause it's a, it's got a curtain on it.

JIM: Yeah. That's okay. Well the children, you

know, we're just -- we don't want them to be cold or

anything, so.

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: As soon as we get David going and get him

in that ambulance we can get a doctor on him and fix

him up.

SCOTT: Yeah, thanks about the puppies man, that

was good.

JIM: Yeah, hey we'll, we'll take care of it, you

have my word on it, we'll take care of it.

SCOTT: Yeah, they're really little.

JIM: Oh, I understand. I understand. Kids love

them little puppies.

SCOTT: Yeah.

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35

JIM: Is everybody inside in agreement now?

We're all together on this aren't we?

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: Okay. Everybody feels the same, and they -

- SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: -- supporting David and a --

SCOTT: Yeah, we're all supporting him.

JIM: That's good. I want you stay, stay like

that. Be positive. You're going to find out this is

going to be real easy once you take the first step,

okay?

SCOTT: Yeah.

JIM: That first step's hard, but once --

(Tape #17 ends abruptly.)

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