2011 apr21 - howard griswold conference call

7/31/2019 2011 Apr21 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

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Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, April 21, 2011Partial

Howard Griswold Conference calls:218-844-3388 pin 966771# (6 mutes & un-mutes),

Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time.6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net

Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #.Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)

Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

Mickey Paolettas cell number is 717-979-3061

Check out: www.escapeharrassment.comwww.escape-tickets-IRS-court.org

All correspondence to:Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940

(do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in thatmailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable

future.)

"All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, hasbeen gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and

"Information packages" listed atwww.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONSand/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line)Dave DiReamer can be reached at:[email protected]

Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer:Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, FederalReserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality.

Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping($35 barebones minimum)

www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958

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Christian Walters (trusts) is on Mondays, Tuesdays and Saturdays at nine o'clock,Eastern Time. The number is 1-712-432-0075 and the pin is 149939# (9 pm EST).Wednesdays number is 1-724-444-7444 and the pin is 41875# (8 pm, Eastern) or
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tune in on Wednesday at Talkshoe.com athttp://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=41875&cmd=tc

Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth

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would be desirable to send a couple of bucks for mailing, copyingand printing costs.

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Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 andmore rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try it,

youll like it.*********************************************************************

Mickeys new call-in number:

1-712-432-8787, pin: 170555#8 p.m, ESTCheck out Citizens Reform Center.

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A recording of each Howard Griswold Thursdayconference call is available from Dezert Owl upon requestfor any sized donation. Go to the following link:www.TheRealPublicRadio.Net/Archives.html .

For donations to desert, send them to Free America Radio Network, 121 Seaparc Circle,Suite B, Kingsland, Georgia 31548. Phone number: 912-882-2142. Cell: 304-629-7169.

For reference:Jersey City v. Hague, 115 Atlantic Reporter 2nd, page 8 (A 2nd )

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*****************************************************{01:41:28.086}[Howard] This article that Im about to give you some information from has come tome from someone here in the country who has been listening to our conference calls andvery graciously looked up a lot more information on public trusts and constructive trustsand put a package in the mail to me with a horrendous amount of new information helpingme to advance what weve been doing quite a bit and we owe a debt of gratitude to thisperson and thank him very much. I havent had time to call him and thank him personally.As usual, Im not going to give somebodys name or how to get a hold of him becausepeople will drive him crazy with phone calls thinking he has all the answers and he doesnt.He just has a bit more information than what weve already got and you can continuedriving me crazy with the phone calls. Anyway, one of the things that he sent me amongmany was an article from West Law is number 54, Columbia University Law Review,article 214, 1954 this was written by a law professor. I would imagine this law professor isprobably dead and gone by now and would turn over in his grave if he knew that nobodyhad paid a damned bit of attention to his law article over all these years except maybewhoever that private investigator in Utah is who has taken the steps to be a private attorneygeneral and bring charges and claims of all kinds against the corruption going on in UtahState government. Well, Utah state government does not stand alone in corruption. Everystate has corrupted the purpose and intent of their own constitution and corrupted the intentand purpose of the federal constitution and the federal government and their congress hascorrupted the federal constitution even worse than the states have done. This article is
http://www.therealpublicradio.net/Archives.htmlhttp://www.therealpublicradio.net/Archives.html


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aboutits called 54 Columbia Law Review, number 214. The Constructive Trust As ARemedy For Corruption In Public Office. It is copyrighted, if course, by ColumbiaUniversity of Law and cannot be sold. We can distribute this at no cost to you and this iswhy a lot of the stuff that I have I know has been copyrighted and all I ask you for iscopying costs and mailing costs. I dont sell these kinds of things to people because I

understand the law of copyright. It applies to literary arts, not to peoples names, by theway. For all those morons who think they copyrighted their name and have done somethingworthwhile, well, the fact is youve wasted your time. It doesnt apply to names, it appliesto things like this, a literary writing whether it be a poem or a cartoon or a song thatsomebody wrote or artistic work that somebody produced. Thats the literary arts. Thatswhat copyrights apply to and this is a written document and it is copyrighted. It is free toyou if you write to Gemini Investments and ask for it and like Ive said, the only thing I askyou for is a couple dollars for the printing and this is only a three-page document so I dontneed much. Two dollars at most willthats probably more than I need really. A dollar anda quarter might cover it. Dont be extravagant. If you send more than that the rest of it is adonation for the research work that we do and the cost that were under to do all this

research. But this research was done by somebody else, it wasnt done by us and I amabsolutely overwhelmed with what this person has come up with and sent to me includingthis particular article. Let me go into what this article says. Written by a law professor atColumbia Law School, it says, exposure of corruption in public office invokesdemandsthat something be done about it. Now, remember that this was written in 1954. Things werealready going on way back then. Has anything changed? No, it hasnt. Anyway, he goes onto say, in our time we have seen investigations come and go, each one leaving a residue ofpublic outrage and frustration and some hopeful recommendations for reform. The latestexamination of the problem, a least on a national level, was that conducted by a Senatesubcommittee under the chairmanship of Senator Paul Douglas. Now, remember this wasback in the 1950s. Senator Paul Douglas is probably not around anymore either. Itssuggestions were perhaps inevitably the old stock remedies, exposure, dismissal andcriminal punishment.The inherent weakness, he goes on to say, of our traditional criminal sanctions againstcorrupt practices lies in the required specificity of perspective definitions.Boy, oh boy, have you seen that? Remember the story of our elusive president and hissexual activities with some woman in his office and his comment was, what is thedefinition of is? These are the perspective definitions that this writer, this law professor,was referring to. What is the definition of sex? Remember his comments? He got awaywith some very illicit activities because he prevented any prosecution from being broughtby asking questions that would require absolute proof that what he did that his conduct wasactually wrong. Well, guess what, his conduct was not wrong, it was the natural inherentdesires of all of mankind, both male and female alike. It just shouldnt have been done atthe time and place that he did it.Anyway, the writer goes on to say, the inherent weaknesses of our traditional criminalsanctions against corrupt practices lies in the required specificity of prospective definitions.The statute books are replete with criminal sanctions against the specific activity andviolations of official duties yet these always seem inadequate to deal with anything butblatant thievery. And if you look at the prosecutions that have been done against mostgovernment officials successfully it always has to do with bribery and accepting money


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How many times have we talked about and some of those articles that Dave just read in hise-mails really implied that all of this is for money. Follow the money and youll find thecorruption. The drug business is one of the biggest corruptions and its big money. Followthe money and youll see it. Anyway, hes after money. He goes on to say:The money motive is so strong with himhim, meaning the politicianthat it overcomes

competing motives of honesty, self-respect and devotion to the public interest. A sanctionwhich divests a dishonest official of his ill-gotten rewards cuts the heart out of hisenterprise. If the public can recover from the crypt anything (crypt meaning his place wherehe hides things) that he gains from his misconduct whether or not the public itself suffereda direct loss then it has a powerful weapon for protecting itself from the facelessness of theservant.Most of these servants are facelessness to the intent and purpose of the government andtheyre there for money. Anyway, he goes on to say:Such a sanction is to be found ready extent in our legal system and it is the constructivetrust.Now, this was 1954 when he writes this. Have we seen any kinds of cases brought by

prosecuting attorneys against any government official for his wrongdoings under thecomplaint of a constructive trust? There may be a few but very damned few. Most of whatis allowed today is allowed because these lawyers are party to the corruption. As a matterof fact, the deeper I research the more I find that the lawyers are at the heart of thecorruption, that they have twisted and bent the laws and purpose of this government aroundto a money-making racket for themselves. Now, Im sure theres a bunch of lawyers whowouldnt agree with that but just because they dont agree doesnt mean Im right orwrong. They actually believe theyre doing the right thingmany of them do. That doesntmean that they are doing the right thing. They lack the knowledge { theyre lackeys?} andthe comprehension of what the purpose behind the law is and they are enforcing thestatutes, codes and regulations which weve told you before there are Supreme Courtdecisions in Colorado particularly that say that those codes, statutes, rules and regulationsapply only to the government, not to the private people. The legal profession ignoresapplying them to the government officials but applies them to the private sector, you and I,on a money-making racket to collect fines, fees and taxes in some fashion or another{kleptocracy} through their rules and regulations from each of us to support their corruptactivity and we pay them. We got to be the dumbest people on the face of the earth.{fluoride head graduates of regucation?} We pay them, we go along, we cooperate, weaccept. Its our own fault that we dont put a stop to this because as weve read before inJersey City v. Hague and thenBurlington Bristol Bridge Company case repeated what wassaid in the Hague case that an aroused citizenry has the power and the right to take thesethings in the court on their own if the governor or the attorney general wont do it for them.We have the power, we have the right, we have the authority to bring these things intocourt as complaints for breach of the public trust or a constructive trust to be established.{no more fluoride!!!} Now, let me try to explain the difference here. This article by thislaw professor didnt really get into the difference and more or less what he was talkingabout was the recovery of property or money that has been extorted from you by conduct ofpublic officials. And thats exactly what the constructive trust applies to. It applies to theestablishment of a function of trust because for some reason or another either somegovernment official or some agency of government through their officials has acquired


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your property or has acquired money from you under some false pretense that they shouldreturn to you. Thats exactly what the constructive trust is for. Thats a complaint to imposethe constructive trust arises under operation of law. It doesnt have to be shown. Itdoesnt have to be request that the court raised the constructive trust, only to enforce theconstructive trust and impose it upon the individual. That all has to be requested in a

complaint for a constructive trust that the holding of my birth certificate is improper. Thelaw does not require a private womans child to be registered on a birth registration. That isa taking of the mothers private property of her child without just compensation for publicuse and they are definitely using it because they monetize the birth certificate and use it aspart of the collateral to support the paper money systems of the governments and this is notjust true in America, this is true in most of the nations of the world and has been true for upto a hundred years in some areas and somewhere in between there in other areas that havefallen in line and become a party to the international banking cartel. They are improperlyusing our property for their personal benefit and they didnt pay mommy. Now, if theywant to pay mommy. Im old, I was born in 1943 and at that time the average working manin a lifetime only made about 630, 000 to 640,000 dollars. They listed me back at that time

to have a value of 640,000 dollars because that was the potential of earnings based on theaverage earnings of that time that I was born. My daughterIve never checked into thison her specificallybut Im sure that she was closer to probably close to a million becausethe earnings were a lot higher in the 1960s when she was born. And when my granddaughters were born in the late 1980s the earnings values were considerably higher and Iwould imagine that my grand children are probably listed as having a value of a millionand a half to two million. Interesting how inflation has improved our value {with moreworthless dollars}.

[caller] Way, way more.

[Howard] It could be. It could well be.

[caller] Youre estimating it.

[Howard] I dont want to push it too far because its absolutely asinine and ridiculousfor somebody to sue them for $100,000,000. That is an idiot form of lawsuit by anyimbecile out there thats promoting that kind of stuff. Do not fall for that. There are specificvalues. They should actually be looked up to find out what they really are, not to makethese arbitrary decisions that youre worth $100,000,000. That will get you in a lot oftrouble. It will cause the case to be thrown out of court. So, dont fall for those leaders whobring those kinds of numbers up.

[caller] Ive seen the bond, Howard. His name on bond at Fidelity hes worth$100,000,000thirteen years old.

[Howard] Maybe thirteen years oldyeah. But in more recent years Im sure thefigures are even higher. Thats what I was trying to tell you.

[caller] We asked for a trillion.


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[Howard] Well, dont sue them for a trillion. You can only sue them for what it said itwas worth and if you can show that this is corruption in line with the anti-corruption laws. Iforget what theyre calledthe corrupt practices act. Youre allowed three times theamount.

[Dave] RICO?

[Howard] Yeah, the [Racketeer Influenced Corrupt] Organizations Actyeah. Youreallowed three times the amount under those law suits. RICO, thats itthank you. Youreallowed three times the amount. So if you can find the exact amount then you sue for threetimes the amount. Now, being as how Im so old and antiquated that I go back to far lessprospective earnings power in the days when I was born I can only sue them for three times$630,000 or $640,000. But, you know what, I dont care how ridiculously outlandishlystupid you and I may be, you know that youre never going to get the money. You shouldknow it. We cant be so stupid that we actually think that money is there. This is all

fictitious. It is based on the future production and any future production that I did and taxesthat I paid in my life have been wasted as the letter that the fellow in Montana has sent tohis politiciansyou wasted the damned moneyyou blew it on all kinds of differentthingsits goneits not there. You cant get it. They have blown the money. Its gonesomewhere. And some people will say, it all went into these spaceships. No, a little chunkwent into spaceships. A hell of a lot of money went into giving it away to non-productivepeople in this country. But other countries are doing the same thing. You may not realize itbut these same rules and regulations, these same concepts, are going on in every countryaround the world. This is not the only place that this is happening. You got to spend a littlebit of time and go look into the history of things that are going on in some of these othercountries. Under the communist concepts of the state owning and controlling everythingwhich, by the way, was something that was brought up in one of the e-mails that Dave wasreading about your land being under the complete control of the State simply because thedeed describing your land was recorded in the States records and they now have completecontrol over your land and anything that you do with your land. Well, that same storyapplies to your body or anything else you registered, your puppy dog. I love to pick onpuppy dogs. This puppy dog registration crap really gets my goat. But every dog is listed tohave a value and they monetize the registration and use it even on a puppy dog. What doyou think theyve done to our children? Theyve monetized and used it to a far greaterextent. What do you think they do to our land? They monetize it and use it to a far greaterextent than they do on puppy dogs because the land has a lot more value than a puppy dogdoes. Ive got a little puppy dog here that if you go look in the booksthey have bookssomething like they have on automobilethat show the average price of particular types ofdogs. This little mutt is a purebred. Hes not really a mutt. And hes a Pomeranian and thevalue starts at $600. Now, hes not registered. He doesnt have a license to drive. Hedoesnt need one because I wont let him drive. Hes way too erratic to be allowed to driveso he doesnt have a license and hes not registered. If they come around here and botherme theyre going to get a lawsuit against them for trying to take my private propertywithout just compensation. It might cost me $10,000 before the lawsuits all over but Imgoing to sue them because theyre bothering me about a thirty dollar license fee. Now, I


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believe in standing up for principle and I will sue them for some miniscule amount ofmoney like three times the value of the dog. Three times $600 is $1800. Either pay me the$1800 and Ill give you the dog and let you license him or go away and leave me alone andif it costs me $10,000 to process this suit and follow it all the way through to the appealscourts Ill do it. Im an arrogant somebody. Dont mess with me because I dont take any

crap off of anybody. I dont care who you claim you are or what you wear, a badge, auniform, a robe, I dont care who you are. Prove your point. Im arrogant as they come.Unfortunately, most of the American people are wussy and then they listen to thesescrewballs who tell you, you can sue them for $100,000,000 or a trillion dollars or somesilliness like that. Youre never going to get anywhere with something like that. There arerules set up on how to do these things. There are limitations set up that can be sued for.And although there are some ridiculous suits put in and stupid people on juries agree tothese suits sometimes like that simple female down in Florida that spilled hot coffee in herlap and burned herself and sued I forget who it was, MacDonalds I think it was. {sheshould have thrown flour on it to cure the burn quickly} Because she burned herself andthe stupid jury actually found in her favor against MacDonalds. What they should have

done was say youre an idiot, you stupid woman. Case dismissed. Its your ownincompetence if you spilled the coffeeits hot. You mean to tell me you dont know thedifference. But thats just as dumb as that little birthday card that I think I did this on thiscall.Information about the constructive trust was written back in 1954 and were just findingthis. Were just starting to learn about this in the last six months to a year that Iveuncovered some of this stuff. What the hell have we been doing? Where are our lawyers?What are they? Theyre the enemy, thats who they are. Theyre a bunch of wusses, theyreafraid to go against the system, theyre useless.

[caller] I actually heard an attorney or a lawyerIm not sure if he was an a-turn-on-me or a liar. I was waiting for my court case and I struck up a conversation with himand he actually admitted that when you go to court while they took an oath to theConstitution its all public policy.

[Howard] Well, yeah, but you got to read what public policy is all about. It enforcesthe contract of the Constitution and it enforces violations of the constitutional contract.Thats what public policy is allas a matter of fact, that case, Burlington Bristol BridgeCompany talked about public policy and the wrongs that those bridge commission peopleand the freeholders which is what they call their county commissioners and county counsel.In a lot of areas, in New Jersey they call it the Board of Chosen Freeholders. But its thesame thing as the county council in a lot of the different states and counties across thecountry. And what that case said was that they were in breach of their duties to the peopleby the wrongs that they had done. And all that had to be shown was the wrong. You didnteven have to prove the wrong, just show it. And the citizenry had the right to bring thesecomplaints. Now,Driscol v. Burlington Bristol Bridge Company was by the governor ofNew Jersey at that time named Driscol. Thats how the case got its name. It was brought bythe governor. What the case said that it didnt have to be done by the governor. It didnthave to be done by the attorney general. It could be done by an aroused citizenry and allthey have to show is the wrong that was done. They dont even have to prove it, just show


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it. Its a simple thing to do. That was in 1952 that that case was in front of the SupremeCourt of the State of New Jersey....

{02:23:xx}If you sue the judge for his corrupt activities or a lawyer for his corrupt activity or anyother government official for his corrupt activity they would try to claim that you are aterrorist, that youre harming the government. Well, theres a very interesting court case todefend yourself from that kind of a claim. United States v. Hylton 710 F. Rptr 2d, pg. 1106.Its the 5th circuit court of appeals decision in 1983. It says the filing of a lawsuit is apetition for redress and we have a right to redress. It is not a terroristic act to file a lawsuitagainst these people and we could use that. I just quoted it for you. You can re-quote it inyour little brief in support of your case that you filed that this is for redress of the wrongsthat are being done and not intended by me to be any type of a terrorist act toward thembecause they are the terrorists and I need redress from their terrorist acts. We have ways of

getting around some of their bull crap that they use by knowing some of these cases andsome of these rules of law and such and understanding it.

[caller] I can say terrorist in it?

[Howard] No, it didnt say terrorist. It just said filing a lawsuit is a petition for redress.These idiot judges, theyll have you arrested for telling them that youre going to sue themand these lawyers will do the same thing and cops will do the same thing. Youre resistingarrest, Im going to arrest you. Now, I said I was going to sue you. Thats resistingarrest. oh, come on. Boy, do these people stretch the point. Thats not what the law wasintended for them to use it for.You might want to go to the law library to find it (Hylton) because those kinds of cases arenot easily found on the internet. They give you the Supreme Court decisions on the internetrather freely but they dont give you all the rest of these things.

[caller] About the constructive trust, did you get the documents?

[Howard] I got a bunch of them. Im still looking for more. I dont have everythingIm looking for....[caller] notes on pages that you got that might apply or anything like that.

[Howard] Well, not until I get the book. When I do something like that, the index isvague. Itll send you to some areas and help you to find things but like the criminalstatutes, the criminal codes of each of the states, I go through them page by page looking atwhat the law says and reading it and determining whether or not it applies to the particularcriminal act that somebody has done like a police officer who does something wrong andtheres plenty of that going on. I think if we went after some of these police officers with


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breach of the public trust I think the word would get around to a lot of other police officersthat some of the things that they are doing are wrong and they would stop doing it. I thinkthat this would be a big help but weve got to get it together and weve got to do it in such away with enough case law backing it up that we have what they call a concrete case thatthey cant penetrate, that they cant just throw out. And by the way, somebody called. I

talked to so many people that I couldnt even remember the names of who told me aboutthings like this and its not good to give their names out because then people will be callingthem wanting their help or something and driving them crazy. Like I said before, drive mecrazy, thats what Im here for.Interesting little story that this person told me about some guy that they know whos beengoing into the courts and bringing up all kinds of cases. And a lot of times when you bringa case against government personnel the court does exactly what one of those e-mails thatDave was reading today said that the judges are there to protect their own money-makingrackets and the people that are involved in those money-making rackets in government andthey try to dismiss the cases and get rid of them. Well, this fellow evidently realized thatand he pulled a cute little trick. He went to his bank and asked for a photocopy of the front

and back of the check that he wrote to pay for the filing of the case and he took it with himwhen he went to court and the judge said something about dismissing the case and he said,you cant do that. The judge being the smart aleck that he is said, what do you mean Icant, Im the judge. He said, Im telling you, you cant do that. He pulls out the copy,back and front of the check, gives it to the bailiff and says, hand this up to the judge. Sothe judge looked at it, he said, so what? He said, that constitutes evidence of a contract.You offered as a court to hear a case. I accepted, I paid for it, now you have to hear thecase, you cant dismiss it. The judge said, oh, my God, youre right. Interesting way tostop a dismissal, isnt it? The fact is the man was right. That proves that there is a contractbetween you and the court. The court offered to hear a case to resolve an issue. Youaccepted, filed the petition and you compensated them by paying them. Now, they have tocompensate you in return by hearing the case out to its final decision. They cant justdismiss it arbitrarily. Keep that in mind and do just that kind of a thing. Get a photocopy ofthe check, front and back because the back shows that they deposited it somewhere. Thatproves their acceptance. Just the front is not sufficient. You have to show that theyaccepted it. So thats why you need to photocopy both front and back. The bank will giveyou that. They might charge you for it because some of these banks want money foreverything they do but they cant charge you much. What can they charge you, a dollar ortwo for a photocopy? Pay them for it. Get the photocopies. Take it with you to the court.If you file a complaint for a constructive trust to recover the birth certificate which is thefirst thing that we should be concerning ourselves with doing because that is the key thatgave the government the control over everything to do with your life is that damned birthcertificate registration. It was improper. Your body is your mothers private property andthey took it without just compensation. They have no right to have it much less to keep it. Itshould be returned. And weve got a form, now, for a complaint for a constructive trust.Now, the trouble with these kinds of forms is theyre vague. We have to learn the details ofwhat has to be shown in a complaint like this in order to fill in those blanks and thats partof what Im trying to put together by picking out the parts that are important in the law oftrust to show rather than sending the entire copy of the law of trust out because the wholething is such overwhelming reading that I know most people wouldnt bother and even if


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they did bother we dont have enough real knowledge from education to recognize thewording and understand how it applies. It was never intended in education that we begiven that much knowledge. Thats why I referred to education as ED. Were all sufferingfrom ED. Now, Im sure you heard that term before and it applies to something else andnot to what I apply it to. I apply it to Educational Deficiency. The education made us

deficient in knowledge.

[Dave] It was a mistake and created a falsified record and they cannot proceed on afalsified record based on a mistake and thats out of Uniform Commercial Code section 1-103, the underlying principles of law which is the common law. You just have to raise thatthere was a mistake made.

[Howard] And that is was done by undue influence. Yes, you made a mistake. Yes, itwas caused by their undue influence. They told you, you had to do this and you didntknow enough about the law. But a government official of any nature including medicalpeople, theyre an agency of the government. Banking people, thats an agency of the

government. Insurance people, theyre an agency of the government. All this stuff isactually government businesses that are owned and controlled by the government and theyhave the same duty as the Congressmen have, the Senators have, the President has to abideby the rules and laws established in the purpose and principles of the Constitution. Andwhen theyre not honest and they dont abide by the rules of the Constitution that is badfaith on their part, not operating with honesty and integrity and that is a breach of thepublic trust. So, you can go after them or after the Department of Vital Statistics forregistering the birth of a child that was private and not actually a government corporationbecause thats all the statute refers to is government corporations that are born within thatgovernmental jurisdiction have to be registered. Well, a child is not a governmentalcorporation. It doesnt come under that law although it says, all children born in the Stateof__--you can fill in the blank for whatever state you might be around. All children born inthe State must be registered. Well, the state can only produce little baby corporations,children, corporations under the State as a parent corporation. Thats all it can produce andthats all it can rule and regulate on. It cannot rule and regulate on a private maritalconception that resulted in the birth of a child.

[caller] Right, but the hospital wont let you outI mean, you cant go to a hospitalbecause theyre governed by the State. And its the registrar who signs the birth certificateand you do realize that the registrar is involved in estates and probates

[Howard] Thats correct.

[caller] so hes actually registering your death.

[Howard] No, hes registering the birth, not the death. The death is registered by adeath certificate later on when life stops.

[caller] No, sir, theyre registering the death.


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[Howard] Wrong, dear, wrong. I dont know whose concept that is or where theycame up with it but they are wrong. It is not registering the debt, it is registering a fiction toreplace you, not a debt.

[caller] Registering the death of the live person so

[Howard] No, not until the death certificate is registered does the death get registered.

[Dave] A person is a fiction, miss.

[Howard] Youre listening to somebody who doesnt know what theyre talking aboutand didnt dig deep enough into the laws.

[caller] Stop and think, who signed it? The registrar wasnt present for your birth.

[Howard] Well, thats true.

[caller] The registrar.charge of probates and willscome on.

[Howard] Well, there can be a living will, dear, shut up and listen. My desires in lifeare my living will until I die. Now, when I die I may have written a will for whats to bedone after I die. But during my lifetime its my written will or my chosen will as to whatsto be done with things. So, actually were living. Theyre not writing a death certificate onus from the beginning at all. Theyre creating a fiction so that we have a way to do businesswith government. Go back and read Doanes Administration.

[caller] the live person.

[Howard] Yes, dearapparently you have no idea what youre talking about becauseyoure listening to the wrong people on the wrong kinds of calls.

[Dave] Theyre presuming you to be lost a sea after seven years, thats where shesgetting this death stuff from.

[Howard] And that doesnt even apply to your individual little body on their birthcertificate because they have documented you as a vessel of the United States in commerceand as long as they can keep you in commerce there is a live fiction in operation and a livebody which is yours that will assume the liability of this fiction and thats the way theyredoing it, not the crap that youre listening to so back off.

[caller] I didnt listen to anything. Its just looking at the facts in my face. Whywould the registrar sign what they call my birth certificate? She wasnt even there.

[Howard] Because it was produced to him by the nurse or the doctor or somebody atthe hospital who handles these things in the administrative office and it was sent over to


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him and assumed to be proper and correct because a government official called the nurse ora doctor did it so its assumed to be correct so he signed it as it being correct.

[Dave] A certificate is nothing more than a certification like an affidavit. Thats alla certificate is.

[Howard] And it certifies that there was a birth of a corporation because they cantregister a birth of a natural person and they cant register the death of a natural person. Thecorporation dies when your physical body dies because there is no live person to move thisfiction that they created. You got to learn about corporations before you get into trying torecognize exactly how this works. You got to understand fictions. Corporations, trusts,limited liability companies, things of that nature are all fictions through which live realpeople can operate. The government set up a fictitious existence for you either as acorporation or a trust and it could have been either one or it could have been both that wereset up. They did not write a death certificate, they did not consider you to be dead becausethey want you, the live person, to move this fiction that they created because a fiction cant

do anything until a live natural person moves it. They need you to be alive until youre nolonger productive then under this new health care bill they want to get rid of you becauseyoure not productive anymore. Go study a little bit about corporations. As a matter of factit was very interesting what we found in the Delaware Codethats the Delaware lawssupposedlyon corporations that all corporations are spelled in all capital letters, Romanletters. Roman letters are all capital letters. It represents commerce. It represents a fictionalexistence. Were living in a world of fictions. Were not living in a world of dead people.They dont consider you to be dead. You cant be dead because you have to move thisfiction they created for you. You have to do these things and you have to come into courtand admit that you are the representative of that corporation and you will assume itsliabilities and thats exactly what they do to you. They get you into court and say, are youJoe Schomoe? And you say, yes, I am. And they say, oh, good. Well, the representativeof this corporation is here because the papers that were sent to you to show up are alwayswritten in capital letters. They summoned the fiction but the fiction cant move. It cant doanything. A natural live person has to move it so they get you into court and get you to dothe moving and the functioning of this fiction and make you assume its liabilities. Thisfiction was speeding. Well, if you look at how a speeding ticket is written its writtenagainst the automobile. It says on the ticket that the police officer observed a 2004Chevrolet whatever, one of those little junk cars they make today, a 2-door sedan travelingdown ding-a-ling boulevard that has a speed limit of 45 miles an hour and exceeding thatlimit by 15 miles an hour. They didnt say you were speeding. They cant possibly say thatyou were speeding and doing 60 miles an hour because they know damned well itsimpossible for you to do 60 miles an hour. The best runner in football that scored all thetouchdowns was one of the fastest runners in football, O.J. Simpson couldnt possibly do60 miles an hour when he was running. You cant do 60 miles an hour. The car was doing60 miles an hour but you are the person behind the wheel. You are responsible for this carand what it was doing. You have to assume the liability for what the car did. Well, the caris spelled in capital letters. Your name is spelled in capital letters. This whole thing is allfiction. And they just want you to assume the liability and pay the fine because, like I saidbefore, follow the money. When theres a profit to be made follow the money and youll


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find out whos behind these kinds of things and what the storys all about. They want themoney out of your personal private live pocket. They know youre alive, youre not deadbut they go after the fiction. In all cases they go after the fiction. They created the fictionfrom the registration of the birth certificate. As a matter of fact, dearI dont know whoyou are, Ive never talked to you beforebut back in the nineties I was out in Nebraska

doing a seminar and I brought up what I had learned at that time about births and birthcertificates and it was just from simple definitions out of the law dictionary. The definitionof the word, birth, means to come down the birth canal. The definition of the word, born,means to be created. That means born and birth are two completely different things.Anybody can create anything. You and I could sit down tonight and probably, if we put ourheads together, come up with a number one selling song. A new song could be born fromour efforts tonight and it might be on the popular charts for six months to a year because itwas phenomenal wording that everybody just thought was great and the music behind itthey just loved it and they danced to it and wed make a fortune, wouldnt we, off of sellingthat song. We created that, it was born when we put it together but that had nothing to dowith a child coming down the birth canal. The child coming down the birth canal is a

natural thing that occurs when a woman has a baby. So none of this made any sense as tohow the birth certificate would apply to this. And I got to thinking about, well, when yougo to the hospital they have a particular room where they take care of women that arepregnant and having a baby and they call that room the delivery room. I wonder what theword means so I went into the law dictionary and I looked up the word, delivery and it is alegal term meaning when one gives property to another for the others control. Now, thathas nothing to do with death, does it? When one gives property to another for their control.Mother signed the birth certificate application which was given to the state describing hernewborn child by name and weight and height and color of hair and color of eyes and sucha good enough description to be able to identify the child. And it was given to the Statefor their control. Now, I dont want to continue to argue with you but Ill tell you about acouple of cases that weve been involved in or had some connection to that really verifiedthis. There was a pharmaceutical doctor up in Baltimore that wasnt five blocks away fromwhere I lived, a nice little neighborhood, quiet, pharmacy, drug store, a hell of a nicefellow, very caring, decent gentleman. And a bunch of people that were his customerswould come in there and renew their prescriptions that had been given to them by doctorssupposedly to treat their cancer and they were complaining to Doctor Harrison, I donteven know why I come in here and get this renewed. My cancers getting worse. Imfeeling worse. This stuff isnt doing me any good. I dont know even why I bother to takethis medicine. Well, of course, Doctor Harrison renewed the prescription and they paid forit because we are stupid people and we continued to do the same dumb things over andover again, always expecting a better result. Thats the definition of mental illness youknow. But anyway, Doctor Harrison being the caring kind of a person that he was decidedthat he would look into this and see if there was something better that might be used to helpthem with their cancer. And being a doctor he had a lot of contacts. So, he found out thatthere was a drug called laetrile which is a substance that is extracted from the seed of anapricot. It has not been tested or approved by the FDA ever, not back then in the seventieswhen this case took place nor has it been tested or considered by FDA since then. Butaccording to somebodys writings and publications it helped delay the effects of cancer andextend the life period of a cancer patient. It didnt say it would get rid of it. It just said it


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would help. Doctor Harrison very kindly got a hold of some of this and I dont know if hegave it to them or if he sold it to them at his cost or if he put a little profit on it for himself.I dont know what he did as far as that goes. All I know is that he was giving it to some ofthese cancer patients. And the FDA sent a SWAT team in there, raided his little pharmacy,took everything that was in the place, off the shelves, out of the cash drawer, everything he

owned was confiscated by the government, they arrested him and charged him withviolations of FDA law. Doctor Harrison was not a poor man. He wasnt an extremelywealthy man but he was not poor. He could afford to hire a lawyer so he hired a lawyer todefend his case. In the US District Court in Baltimore City his lawyer presented anargument that an individuals body is their own private property and they and they alonehave the right to determine what they put into it whether they use the drugs that the doctorprescribed or whether they use some alternative thing like laetrile. You know what thecourt said? Wrong, the persons body is the property of the state and only the state has theright to determine what you put into your body. Thats what the court said. Now, wheredid the State get the authority to control your body and what you put into it? Go back tothat definition that I just told you about, the delivery room. The delivery of the birth

information to the government gave them the control of the property of the body. It is alive.It is not considered to be dead. It is there to represent this corporate fiction that they createdfrom the registration of the birth certificate. Now, one of the ladies that was at thatNebraska seminar that I was doing was a little bit disturbedto say the least a little bitdisturbed by this realization that the government had control over her children through hersigning the birth certificate. She didnt like that thought at all. So she went to theDepartment of Vital Statistics and asked for a copy of the childrens birth certificates. Theygave her a copy. She called me up and she told me what she found out that I was right thatthe birth certificate showed the childrens names spelled in all capital letters which createdthis fictions. Now, I know and understand corporations. I do a lot of dealing with andsetting up of corporations for people. I understand the laws of corporations. I got deeplyinvolved in that, years ago. So I had explained some of this at that seminar and she said,by golly, you were right, the name is spelled in all capital letters. I said to her, why dontyou go back. Let a couple of months go by so they forget who you were. Dont go backright away because theyll recognize you but after a couple of months people forget. Goback again and ask them for a copy of the birth certificate and see what you get. So she didthat. She called me up and she said, youll never believe this, they gave me a differentbirth certificate. The names are spelled with a capital first letter but all small case letters forthe rest of the name. Its different than that first one that they gave me. I said, now, thatsinteresting. I wonder why a different one came up when they opened the folder and got itout and photocopied it. I wonder if what they do is if you ask for a copy of your birthcertificate they take the first page and copy it and then when they put it back they put it inthe back of the folder or something. Who knows what the process is that these little moronpeople in those offices are taught to do. Interesting though. I said, Ill tell you what, dear.There could be some more information. I wonder what else you can find. If you rememberthe original application was in hand writing. It was a printed form with a lot of blanks andyou had to hand write in those blanks. They didnt give you that one, did they? She said,no. I said, why dont you go back in a couple more months and ask again for a copy andsee if you can get that original one that was hand written. Well, she did go back and she gota different piece of paper but it wasnt the hand written one. It was a notice of live birth to


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the Department of Commerce, Bureau of Census in Washington, D.C. So theres at leastthree different documents in there that they created after mommy filled out in handwritingand signed the original application for a birth certificate. She never did get a copy of thatoriginal one with her live signature on it and I can tell you why. Because we found outwhat they do, the same thing that the banking system does with your application for a

mortgage and the promissory note that they get you to sign when you go buy a piece ofproperty. They deposit it and thats what happened to mommys original handwrittenapplication. It was deposited. A dollar figure was put on it to the extent of what I just toldyou, different dollar figures depending upon the date that the child was born and theaverage income of people at that time times the number of years that this child would workamounting to some figure of some figure of total anticipated value. But the Department ofCommerce, Bureau of Census in Washington D.C.why would the Department ofCommerce have any use for your birth certificate unless it was going to be put in to thiscommercial activity of monetary deposit? They cant consider you to be dead and utilizeyou. They have to consider you to be a fiction in order to utilize you and then they have tokeep you alive as best they can until you become useless so you can continue to move this

fiction that they have created for you. This is all a breach of the public trust. This is alldishonesty and disloyalty to the purpose and intent of the Constitution for the governmentto be in a trust position and to look out for our best interest as the beneficiaries of that trust,not to utilize us for their benefit as they are doing. Utilizing us for their benefit is a breachof their public trust. These are the kinds of things that have never been brought up in thecourts, have never been brought by any lawyer, not even talked about in things like thisdocument written by this law professor in Columbia University in 1954. He was onlytalking about bribery and other types of criminal activities where the individual wasbenefiting from corruption. In the case were talking about the individual is benefiting bygiving this stuff to the State and helping the State to make money off of it so he will benefitby continuing to get paid. So he benefiting but hes not benefiting entirely, the State isbenefiting along with him, the State being the government. The State is not the place youlive in. I dont know where you live but lets pick any number of states, North Carolina,California, New York, Wisconsin, Louisiana, it doesnt matter. Those places have a stategovernment. The State is located in the governmental capital of those places. Those placesare actually North Carolina, California, New York, Wisconsin. They are not the State of.The State of does not encompass the entire perimeter of the areas by that same name. Butthat state is considering you to be a part of them because they have control over your bodydue to the birth registration and the federal government being the parent government attainsan additional control over you. And this is how they can do the things that they did to thissweet little lady up in Detroit, Michigan to force her to make her daughter take these drugsthat the doctor prescribed. If youve got a birth certificate youre their property and yourealive, youre not dead. If they really considered you to be dead they would have to ignoreyour existence. So, youre not dead, youre a fiction. My comment about that was if youwake up and realize how this really works you will find yourself to be beside yourself.There is an entity that can be described exactly as you are but its fictional and its standingright beside, right along with you. Theres a real you and a fictional you. Youre besideyourself. But youre here, youre alive. The fiction has life only because you put life into itby moving it, by using it, by allowing them to use it and participating in their use of it.They cant do this and get away with it if people have knowledge and understanding. But


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apparently, weve had no knowledge and no understanding and this is why I refer to ED asEducational Deficiency. Education was deficient in teaching anything that gave usknowledge.

[caller] Howard, so what youre saying then is the application for the birth

certificate is the contractcorrect?

[Howard] It constitutes a contract for a trust. This is a different trust. This is not thepublic trust. You are now creating what they call a constructive trust. The law dictionarydefines the word, constructive trust, as a trust that arises from the operation of law andfraud.

[caller] But nonetheless, its a contract?

[Howard] Anytime you give somebody else property to hold for you its in acontractual formyes. That contract by operation of law creates a trust.

[caller] So, if you were in court and they made a presumption that you wereproperty of the State, couldnt you rebut that by simply saying, produce the contract whichyoure trying to make a presumption withproduce the contract? They cant produce thatapplication because you said they already deposited it.

[Howard] Thats right. They cant produce it and no judge will make them produce itbecause we thought of that and we tried it years ago and we go nowhere. We tried goingdown to the Department of Commerce in Washington, D.C. and finding out who is incharge of keeping track of all these birth registrations that are sent to the Department ofCommerce and what they use them for and they wouldnt even admit that they had anybirth certificates there or birth registration notices.

[caller] So then how could the judge keep presuming that youre property of theState without producing a contract in being in commerce? My understanding was that ifyoure in commerce and if youre in equity there has to be a contract and if theres nocontract then you cant have a presumption like that.

[Howard] Well, no, thats not what the modern commercial law says. In the UniformCommercial Code that each state in this country has adopted theres a series of definitionsof words and one of them is the word, presumption. And the definition of that word is apresumption remains a fact before the court until it is rebutted by rebuttable evidence. Thatgave them the permission and ability to maintain a presumption until you were able torebut it in some way. Well, just to go in there and deny that youre in this position does notrebut it. It has to be rebuttable evidence. Well, evidence is something that eludes mostlawyers. Ive always said that most of these lawyers wouldnt know what evidence was ifthey stumbled over a pile of it because they hardly ever go into court with any evidence.They go into court with a bunch of rhetoric and they convince either the judge or a jurybased on a bunch of bullshit {wouldnt that be kangaroo shit?} and rhetoric. They neverproduce evidence. As a matter of fact, Ive found several cases that have been overturned


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by higher courts on criminal charges because they never produced any evidence to provethe criminal charge against the individual so the individual was released from jail and thecharge was dropped against him because they didnt have any real evidence but they got aconviction in the lower courts because theyre so damned good actors and theyre sodamned good at getting people to make the wrong statements. Some judge of the Supreme

Court, one time, made a comment that 95% of the people in this country that are in jail arein jail by their own consent. They opened their mouth and stuck their foot in it. Theyanswered the questions thinking that they were being honest and actually lied againstthemselves and ended up convicted.

[Dave] Because their signature created a power of attorney.

[Howard] Thats one thingyepthey signed things and created a power of attorneyfor the State to do whatever the hell they wanted and then they admitted the things. Yes,my name is Howard Griswold. No, Im not Howard Griswold. The document that wasmade up against me, State v. Howard Griswold, was spelled in all capital letters and thats

not me. But I didnt know. It still said Howard Griswold. I thought it meant me and thatsnot me. I didnt know any better. Im dumber than a damned door knob and was for years.It took me a lot of research and a lot of study to unwind all of this stuff and put these piecestogether. Fortunately I did have some knowledge of corporations and how they work frommy business career and that gave me a little bit more ability to understand the law when Igot in there and started reading it. Some things that I did in life did lead me to being able tounderstand these things more clearly because I experienced the result of them. Then when Istudied them I could associate the result that I had experienced with what I was reading. Itmade me more able to comprehend it than some other people might have been. But itstaken me years. Ive been at thisin this coming November it will be 32 years that Iretired, 32 years ago. And I started looking into these laws and studying this and I havemade plenty of mistakes. I have misunderstood what it said. Ive applied it in the wrongways because I applied the beliefs that have been ingrained in me through education,through religion, through news media and the things that they say. You listen to that newsmedia. Every story that they tell you, a terrible tornado touched down in dingbat county,somewhere in North Carolina. God Bless those poor people just a couple of nights ago. {62tornados in NC, one into Virginia, Gloucester County. One came too close for comfort nearthis computer} I think it was 24 people were killed {6 in Virginia} in North Carolina inthose tornados. These kinds of things really upset me because Gods revenge is being takenout on the guilty and the innocent in these kinds of things. And some of those people mighthave been guilty of being the wrong kind of people but some of them had to be some ofGods people and they were innocent but they were killed too. But you listen to the newsmedia and it says, and twenty-four of the residents of Ding-a-ling County were killed.Residents? What the hell are residents? Cant they say people? No, they never do. Theyvealways used that word to teach us to admit that were residents. Well, it took a lot ofresearch because the law dictionary covered that up. The law dictionary does not define aresident. It defines residence but no resident. I had to go all the way back into an oldEnglish dictionary to find out that the word, resident, means an agent of a corporation.Theyre telling us that we are resident agents of the State Corporation. We are corporatefictions authorized to exist under the authority of the State Corporation. Thus the State


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Corporation has complete control and authority over its children. We are the children of theState Corporation as little child corporations. Sometimes I almost wish that God would letme be so damned corrupt. You know how much money I could make running such corruptthings. I mean, you people are dumb enough to fall for anything. I could sucker you out ofany kind of money. Id get rich. Id be one of these wealthy politicians. Its just God wont

let me be that corrupt. Im telling you, I cant do that....[Dave] If they would nationalize the Fed they {federal government} could make allthe profit that the Banksters make now.

[Howard] Yeah, well, thats another thing. The entire money system and bankingindustry in this country is not only unconstitutional it is immoral and unlawful. It is anextortion racket. That has to be shut down. Well, you know how many people would bemad because, well, I cant get a mortgage anymore, because Griswold cut out the banking

system and theres no mortgages. I cant go buy a house. Dumb ass, go out and work, putout an effort. Dont go out and blow the money and party all the time like a lot of youstupid kids on drugs and alcohol want to do all the time. Save your money and buysomething cash.

[Dave] These Federal Reserve notes are nothing but evidence of debt. Theyre notmoney, theyre evidence of debt. Thats what the word, note, meansIOU.

[Howard] Well, the evidence of debt is based on credit. There can be no debt withoutcredit. If you work for me all week and I owe you a paycheck at the end of the week do youknow that thats not a debt because that does not involve credit? Thats a contract and thatdoes not result in a debt. That results in an obligation and I can be sued for breach of thecontract for not meeting the obligation if I dont pay you. But that has nothing to do withdebt. The word, debt, is the result of credit. Without credit there can be no debt. We areextending credit, in every function of the banking system we are extending credit and thatswhat creates the debt. And the money is nothing but an extension of credit which results inabsolute debt. Every bit of this money has to be returned because its against some credit.The sum credit that its against is your birth certificate, my birth certificate, your land deed,my land deed, our puppy dog registration, our childrens birth certificate registrations, ourmarriage licenses, our little business licenses that we might get. Anything we askgovernment for that we signed a document for they wrote a dollar figure on it and said thisis worth about this much money and they deposit it and they created the collateral to backup the issuance of this phony paper that circulates as money. This is a fictional world. Itsall based on fiction. There is nothing real about anything that theyre doing. And somehowwe have to learn the difference between reality and fiction. We have to stop mixing our realself with what theyre doing in their fictions. This is where this lady who was starting toargue with me was off on the wrong track. Theyre not treating you as a dead person.Theyre not paying any attention to you at all except when they want you to move thefiction. They want you to bring your real person in there and assume the liability for thisfiction and were dumb enough to go do it. We dont sue them for breach of their public


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trust because theyre dishonest in bringing these claims against us under whatever pretensethe claim is. Now, if you kill somebody in a fight, two guys over one woman, a jealousyfight or something like that, you killed him. They have a duty to prosecute the one who didthe killing. That is a duty of government to protect the rest of us from that killer, to put thatkiller away so he cant kill again whether it was just a stupid fit of anger or if it was a

planned killing. Im going to rob the bank some clown figures out and Im going to takemy gun. If the teller gives me any trouble Ill shoot her. Well, thats a planned intendedkilling. They have a duty to prosecute somebody like that. The damned shame is they reallycant prosecute him for robbing the bank because hes not taking anything of value.Theres nothing in the bank of value except the lovely little lady behind the counter thatsthe tellershes valuableshes real. If he hurts her, thats wrong. But taking the money,theres no value to this moneyhe didnt take anything of value. They really cantprosecute that but they do anyway under the pretense of the fiction that everybody fits inthe fiction and everybodys using the fictional money and everybodys liable for anythingthey do wrong with the fictional money. Everything is fiction. When I first started studyingthis stuff we were looking into a lot of this civil rights crap, the 14 th Amendment and filing

suits under civil rights. And the civil rights law says something to the effect that anygovernment official who under the color of law injures somebody is personally liable tothem for the injury that he caused. Under the color of lawwhat in the hell does thatmean? It took us the longest time to figure out what that meant. The color of law is thisfictional law. Every bit of whats on the books today is fictional law. They have even putmurder under fictional law. It is now the depravation of someones right to life under the14th Amendment. Its a civil rights violation for you to kill somebody. They cant evenreally prosecute this. They do and they get away with it because we let them do it. But thefact is that is not a proper charge for someone who murdered somebody and theres anawful lot of murdering going on in this countryan awful lot. People are stealing andkilling in order to be able to steal in order to get by because of the monetary deficiencies inlife that were all experiencing because of the failure of this paper money system. It doesntpay for life anymore. It doesnt pay the expenses in life. A few people are lucky enough tostill be working and making some money and getting by but theyre cutting corners to getby. Other people are not working because the system has fallen apart so much that evenbusiness cant continue to maintain itself and keep people employed so these unemployedpeople are getting something from the government for a little while but when it runs outtheyre still unemployed. They dont have any money. Now, theyre out on the streetsstealing from other people. The government is forcing these things to happentheyrecausing it to happen. And theyre doing it because theyve been getting away with thisbreach of the public trust and this dishonesty of the medical profession and its drug pushingbusiness, the dishonest of its paper money system and their banking organizations. Now,some of thats starting to be exposed. There was a conviction announced in the news todayof some banking official for the wrongdoings of the bank that he was involved in. Its thefirst one and the attorney generals office person was being interviewed on the news and hesaid, oh, there are quite a few other investigations going on. This is not the end of thisstory. There will be other prosecutions. Well, all well and good but theyre not going afterthem for the total entire problem of the entire system. Theyre only going after them forwhere they diverted from the rules of how to maintain the fiction, not for running thefiction.


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[caller] color of law anddealing with the birth certificate. The question I have if theindividuals knowingly have to sign what is called a birth certificate and normally deedsof trust color of law, can we go after the agents who have done?

[Howard] Yes, indeed we can. We can go after them with a complaint to impose andenforce a constructive trust for the purpose of either paying us for the property or returningthe property.

[caller] And that addresses all agents or individuals who are in final and conspiracywith it even down to the nurse, am I correct?

[Howard] Well, yeah, but Im not sure that youd bother to go that far. TheDepartment of Vital Statistics or whatever they call that thing in the town or county or areathat youre located in and the reason I say that is because in some areas they dont call itthat. Up in Massachusetts they call it the town hall records. In Maryland they call it the

Department of Vital Statistics so they got different names in different areas. Wherever theyrecord the birth registration thats where you would go after them for their impropriety ofrecording it in the manner and signing it, as the lady brought up so aptly, that they sign thisbirth registration. The registrar signed it and hes the one who broke the law. He shouldhave recognized, this is a child. Its got brown hair and blue eyes. Its only 21 inches longand it only weighs six and a half pounds. This is not a corporation, this is child. He shouldhave realized that this is not a fiction. He shouldnt have allowed something like this tohappen but hes the guilty party who is creating this fiction to represent that little 21 inchsix and a half pound blue eyed brown haired kid. And, of course, today, the guy that wasthe registrar when my mother filled out a birth application and it was sent to theDepartment of Vital Statistics in Maryland that guy is long gone. He might have been fortyor fifty years old at that time. Im now sixty-eight so you know darned well hes not aliveanymore. So you might think, well, he cant be sued. Well, whoevers maintaining thatrecord today in the Department of Vital Statistics is just as guilty of doing the wrong as hewas. So you can go after whoevers in the Department of Vital Statistics today and sue himto return the property or pay for it. Did I answer you clearly enough?

[caller] Yes, you did.

[Howard] Oh, ok. Look in the law dictionary under the definition of conspiracy. Ittalks about whoever perpetrated a conspiracy in the beginning if hes no longer there butothers have moved in and taken his place and continued the conspiracy they are just asguilty as the original conspirator. It explains that under the definition of conspiracy in thelaw dictionary. So, this present day registrar is just as guilty as the registrar back in the1950s when that lovely little lady that was on here was talking about her birth certificatebeing registered or all the way back in the 1940s when mine was registered those peopleare probably gone. If they arent dead they were at least no longer in office. Theyveretired. Even that lady that was born in 1952, the registrar that was there then Im sure isretired because hed be sixty or seventy years of age so hes retired. Hes not there. But shecould sue the one thats presently there as a co-conspirator carrying on the conspiracy of


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the one that registered and signed it back in 1952 or in my case 1943. Now, you associatethat with your own case and whatever time you were born.

[Ed] Howard, how are you, sir. Would that also be taking the personal propertywithout just compensation under the Constitution?

[Howard] The body, the birth certificateit certainly is. The body is property. Itsyour property. Until you turned 18 years of age it was your mothers property.

[Ed] Well, that was one of theI dont know if you know who Richard Mack is.Hes the sheriff out in Arizona.

[Howard] Yeah, Ive heard of him. Im familiar with some of his writings.

[Ed] Well, hes saying that the federal government is taking over or trying to takeover the states position and they cant do that. Hes actually filed a lawsuit. He told the

storyIll be brief on thishe told the story of the federal agents coming down to one ofthe sheriffs meetings and demanding that they do a background check at the statesexpense. This is when they imposed that first ruling that was under Bill Clinton. You haveto have a five-day cool off period before you can issue a handgun or a gun. And as a resultof that law the federal agents came down and demanded that the states take over that at thestates expense and he actually sued the government for that action.

[Howard] How long ago.

[Ed] I dont know, Howard. He didnt actually giveit must have been after 93so I dont know when after that but he

[Howard] Well, if its that old there has to be a decision by the courts. We should findout what the court decided on it.

[Ed] Yes, he did have that and I just heard it tonight, actually, Howard, so Ithought that that was interesting that he had actually sued and won.

[Howard] That would help some of the other states today who are somewhat upsetwith federal government telling them what to do to make a lawsuit similar to that becausethey cant come in here and tell you that the interstate waterways are part of the UnitedStates governments clean water act. They have been making a fortune suing and finingpeople for disturbing the United States governments water ways and under the CleanWater Act and imposing this on people that have a puddle in their front yard. When it rainsif it puddles they claim that thats United States waters and if you put fill dirt in and fill upwhere that puddle was they can fine you for disturbing the wetlands. What a crock. Theydont have that authority. Thats private property, your home and the land where you havea little puddle in the front yard. Thats not United States waters. Theyve stretched themeaning of the law. As a matter of fact weve got a big case going on right now about that.


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[Joe] Howard, what Ed was talking about with Sheriff Mack had to do with theBrady Bill. The Brady Bill was going to be like three or four parts and he sued and onlyone part of it passed. And he also has a book, I think it its called, Is Your SheriffConstitutionaland a couple of books that he has written. He tried to go and educate othersheriffs, a really good guy, and he was a great sheriff and hes a good guy and hes still

trying to inform sheriffs and what their rights are and how theyre supposed to protect thepeople in their county.

[Howard] And I think hes been doing this for about twenty years and I think over thetwenty years hes learned what idiots are being elected as sheriffs. They dont understandwhat hes saying.

[Joe] Well, hes trying to educate them and one other question if I may. On thatconstructive trust and so forth why dont we go back and get our properties out their deed,out their register thing and sue them for that?

[Howard] Thats exactly what the constructive trust is all about. You sue them for thereturn of the property that they acquired unlawfully. They had no right to private propertybecause the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution and somewhere in every stateconstitution theres some kind of a statement thats very similar that says that governmentcannot take private property for public use, public being government and their use, in anybeneficial way at all its their use and they cant do that without just compensation. Well,did they pay mommy for her little baby? Did they pay you for the value of your land? Didthey pay you for the value of the car that you registered? Did they pay you for your littlesix hundred dollar stinking puppy dog. Mines a stinking rotten little thing. Its so damnedspoiled its rotten all the way through and it stinks and its a kind of a stink that even soapand water wont wash away. Its a loveable little thing but its just a stinking rotten dog butthey think its worth six hundred dollars because thats what the price is. They start at sixhundred dollars and go up. I got this thing for free on the internet. Somebody was giving itaway. My wife happened to come upon it and we said, well take it. Its wild, its aruffian, its hyperactive as all hell. I can understand why they didnt want to keep it but itsettled down once it got with us. We gave it love and attention and it gives us love andattention back. According to the law and the record its worth at least six hundred dollarsand they would want me to register it so that they could deposit the registration documentand put another six hundred dollars worth of collateral on their books and I wouldnt give itto them.

[Joe] One note, people going fighting back to get their deeds back and everything,I wonder if it should be more of like a collective lawsuit because I would envision it

[Howard] No, no, no, no, no, no, no. When you say collective, what youre referringto is a class action suit.

[Joe] Thats correctyes.


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[Howard] The trouble with a class action suit is if you screwed up and didnt word itcorrectly and you lose nobody could ever bring that same kind of a suit againyou blew it.But if an individual goes in there and he screws it up and loses that doesnt block anybodyelse from coming in and bringing another suit and learning from your mistakes and doing itcorrectly.

[Joe] Ok, on that note, suppose say the first party goes in and suesok. But inthe meantime the second party is already getting his paperwork ready and so he sees whatthey say on that and they say, well, you cant further than this. So the second party fixeshis paperwork to what they just said. So the second part goes in and now maybe theyregoing to dismiss his case also or her case and the third party but, I mean, repetitively goafter them where something has to stick sometime.

[Howard] Thats right and doing it individually we can make it stick eventually. Andremember what I told you earlier in the conversation tonight about getting a photocopy ofthe check or the money order or the receipt that they gave you, anything at all that proves

that you paid the court. If the court gave you a receipt, thats good enough. You dont needa photocopy of the check. You got the receipt from the court that you paid $300 for filing acourt case on such-and-such a date and your name on it as a receipt to you from the courtwith the courts name on itthats good enough. That proves that you made a contractwith the court. They cannot dismiss this case. They have a contract to hear it and youregoing to hold them to it. That way we can avoid the possibility that theyll just dismiss itbecause we dont want to hear this because thats what they did in this case about the CleanWater Act. This was here in Delaware. The man owns four acres of ground about fourteenmiles from the Delaware Bay. Now, if you read the Clean Water Act it says putting anykind of contaminants or toxins of any kind in lands adjacent to the waterways of the UnitedStates. Well, the Delaware Bay is a navigable waterway. Boats, ships go up and down thatbay. That could be considered under the law a navigable waterway protected by the CleanWater Act. But hes 14 miles away from it and theyre claiming that the fill dirt that he putin to grade his property out and make it more usable had contaminants in it and itcontaminated the creek that leads to a river that leads 14 miles away to the Delaware Bay.Hogwash! Well, this whole case started in 1991they filed the complaint against him. Weread the complaint, put in a bunch of motions to dismiss and repetitive arguments aboutwhy they were wrong in what they were doing and they didnt come back and respondmuch to what we said and the court didnt rule on what we said and it didnt rule on whatthey said. So, in 1996, I think it was, some new lawyer took over the case for thegovernment and he put in a bunch of motions and we put in a bunch of answers and abunch of counter-motions and he didnt answer our counter-motions and the court didntrule on his complaint or on our complaint. So, it sat there and nothing happened till around2005 and they put another lawyer in there. Well, probably because these lawyers come andgo and different people get these jobs and they hold them for a little while and then theyquit. So this different lawyer comes in with a bunch of motions and we went back with abunch of motions and they filed a motion for summary judgment in that case finally and wefiled a motion for summary judgment on our previous complaints and arguments that wehad put in along the way that this was an interference in the use and enjoyment of privateproperty and we wanted 31 million dollars because of the money that could have been


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made if this property could have been used since 1991. Well, the court wouldnt rule on ourmotion and it wouldnt rule on their motion. So, finally, in 2006 the court decided to dosomething so the court ruled that he violated the law by putting the fill dirt in there withouthaving a permit from the corps of engineers. The Corps of Engineers has authority alongthe waterways for piers and things like that to be built out into the waterways. Thats the

extent of the authority that the corps of engineers had. But the court said that we violatedthe corps of engineers rules and didnt get a permit to put the fill dirt in but that therecouldnt be any fines or sanctions against him. So, the court was thinking that, well, thislljust go away now. But it didnt go away because we filed an appeal in the 3rd Circuit Courtof Appeals in Philadelphia which is what controls New Jersey, Pennsylvania and DelawareDistrict Court cases. The Court of Appeals sent us a form for an appeal and its what theycall the short form and a letter that said we can either do this in a long form and spelleverything out the way we want to and back it up with case law or anything we can find orwe can just fill in the blanks on the short form and they would still process the appeal. Sowe filled in the blanks and laid out the specific little details that fit into those blanks andthen we sent a points and authorities in support, the points and authorities that Dave looked

up and I helped him a little bit with the research. He came up with that case that you hearme talk about that the Colorado Supreme Court declared that the codes, statutes, rules andregulations of government apply only to government. That was part of our argument thatthese rules and regulations of the federal government apply only to federally owned land,not to private land. The court of appeals refused to answer. So the Court of Appeals foundtwo lawyers that had not been involved in this at all and appointed them as amicus curiaewhich means friend of the court and told them that it was their job because they wereappointed by the court and they are agents of the courtlawyers are an agent of the courtand theyre licensed by the court, by the way, for all these morons that are telling peoplethat lawyers arent licensed. Indeed they are, theyre licensed by the court to appear beforethe court. So the court has complete authority over these little morons and it told them thatthey had to research this and make a determination as to which party was correct. The courtdidnt want to rule on this. It gave the authority to some little lawyer to do it. Well, thisvery nice fellow was one of the ones that was appointed as the amicus curiae. He got intouch with Dave. Dave gave him all the papers, everything that was involved in this case,and he looked it over and in the meanwhile the Court of Appeals made reference to a recentSupreme Court decision that went completely against the government and said find outwhether or not this fits into the same category as this case in Michigan. Well, the case inMichigan was about a pond on a guys property which is not navigable waters of theUnited States and the Supreme Court ruled that because it was inland waterways and notnavigable waters of the United States that the Clean Water did not apply. Anyway, this nicelawyer, he went back to the court and he told the court that what had been done wasincorrect and the court said, ok, were not going to overturn what the District Court did,were going to send this back to the District Court for reconsideration. So thats where thisstupid case is and its been going on since 1991. You see how hard it is to make thegovernment to do whats right? But along the way we never realized any of this stuff aboutthe constructive trust or about breach of the public trust. We didnt know about it. Wedidnt understand it. We didnt bring it up. If we had brought it up way back in thebeginning of 1991 when they first put the case in and filed a counter-complaintimmediately against them for breach of the public trust this whole thing would have


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stopped. It would have stopped dead but it didnt, its going on. Theyve harassed the hellout of this poor man. He was in his sixties at that time. Hes now 81 years old. Got torealize 1991 that was what, 18 years ago? All this timeit was only thirteen years agowhen we sued them for the $31 million. Its now gotten to be about 18 years that this stupidthing is going on. This is how they will harass you unless you know what to do. And I

think we found what to do. Everything that they are doing like this to violate your privateproperty rights or your private liberty in life or you to maintain your own body and do whatyou can do lawfully is a breach of their public trust. They have a duty to protect you, tolook out for you, to make sure that you have every right in the world to go out there andearn money and make wealth and utilize what you have acquired for your own benefit, notto tax the hell out of you for what you acquired, not to tax you for your labor that you usedto acquire it, not to control your use of every bit of that kind of stuff. Now, there arenaturally some controls but Ill tell you what, the system is already set up in the right way.If you do something with your property which overflows in some way onto my propertyand Im not just talking about water. Water can overflow, but other things can too. Youcould create terrible stinks over on your property that would float across mine and gag me

or something. That would be an overflow of the conduct that youre doing. I have anabsolute right to sue you for what youve done that disrupts my natural life. Why arent weliving that way? Why is government doing everything for us? Ill tell you why, because thepeople are so God damned lazy that they wont do anything for themselves. They wantgovernment to take care of it all. We let this happen. It is our fault. Its time that we startedto stand up and do this ourselves and go after these scum that are getting away with thiskind of stuff and were not doing it.

[caller] Howard, I may have the perfect case to do this with. Id like to talk to youabout it tomorrow if I could.

[Howard] Ok. You got my number?

[caller] No, I dont.....[caller] Ive never heard you talk about bringing up the 13th Amendment in acomplaint for a constructive trust where it says slavery and involuntary servitude is aviolation. Them taking control of your body be a form of slavery?

2011 apr21 - howard griswold conference call

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