9 5 12 0204 063341 2025 both portions of stubbs transcript ocr a9 no numbers

7/28/2019 9 5 12 0204 063341 2025 Both Portions of Stubbs Transcript OCR A9 No Numbers

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IN THE JUSTICE COURT OF THE STATE OF NEV DIN ND FOR THE COUNTY OF W SHOE

THE HONORABLE PETER J . SFERRAZZA, JUSTICE OF THE PEACE

THE STATE OF NEVADA,P l a i n t i f f , Case No. RCR2011- 063341

v s . Dept N o . 2Z CH RY BARKER COUGHLIN,

Defendant .

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGSJAVS MISDEMEANOR TRIAL

Wednesday, September 5,

APPEARANCES:For the P l a i n t i f f : Z CR YOUNG, ESQ.Deputy distri t a t t o r n e yOne South S i e r r a S t r e e tReno, Nevada 89520

For the Defendan t : JAMES LESLIE, ESQ.Deputy P u b l i c DefenderP.O. Box 11130Reno, Nevada 89520

2012

(JAVS ELECTRONICALLY RECORDEDTr an s c r ib ed by: EVELYN J . STUBBS

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I N D E XWITNESS: PAGENICHOL S DUR LDE

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR YOUNG 1CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR LESLIE 26

E X H I IT SNO. Marked Admit tedMARKED PREVIOUSLY

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RENO NEVADA; WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 5 2012; 10:03 A.M.000

THE COURT: Mr. Coughl in , we do have a copy o fthe r e c o rd i n g s o f t h e p r o ceed in g s . We can f u r n i s h it toyou a t no c o s t . The answer i s no you canno t r ecord ,because we have t h e o f f i c i a l r e c o rd . And I w i l l i n s t r u c tt h a t you g e t an aud io - -

THE DEFENDANT:THE COURT:

Thank you sir .a t no c o s t to you.

THE DEFENDANT: Thank you sir.THE COURT: All r i g h t . We left o f f - - I m t r y i n g

t o f i n d my n o t e s from l a s t t ime .MR. LESLIE: Your Honor b e fo re we g e t going, I

do have a p r e l i m i n a r y ma t t e r , whenever you wish to hea rit.

THE COURT:MR. LESLIE:THE COURT:

Wel l l e t me j u s t - Sure .

- - f i n d my no tes . Okay. We hadNicho la s Dura lde t e s t i f y , N ath an ie l Za ra t e , and t hen CoryGoble . And I m n o t s u r e if the S t a t e - - I d o n t b e l i e v et he S t a t e ad d r e s s ed t h i s .

MR YOUNG: Your Honor have we f o r ma l ly c a l l e dt he ca se y e t ?

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THE COURT: Yes, we have . This i s t h e ma t t e r ofS t a t e of Nevada v e r s u s Zachary Barke r Coughl in , Coughl in(p ronounc ing) , I m so r ry . It i s a Depar tment 2 case ,2011-063341, and it i s t h e c o n t i n u e d trial. And thecha rges a re p e t t y l a r c e n y , one coun t , and p o sse s s i o n o fs t o l e n p r o p e r t y , a second coun t .

MR YOUNG: Thank you, Your Honor.The S t a t e has not r e s t e d . O f f i c e r Dura lde o r

Dura lde (p ronounc ing) , excuse me, t e s t i f i e d a t t h e - - wi thr e spec t t o t he mot ion to suppres s , which t h i s Courtg r an t ed in p a r t and den ied in p a r t , e f f e c t i v e l y .

And so wi t h r e spec t t o t h e trial t h e on ly twow i tn es s e s t h a t have t e s t i f i e d fo r t h e S t a t e in t h e S t a t e scase in c h i e f i s Mr. Zara te and Mr. Goble .

O f f i c e r Dura lde i s p r e s e n t and ready to t e s t i f ywi th r e s p e c t - - as it p e r t a i n s to t h e trial.

THE COURT: Well , I t h i n k t h e Cour t d i d i n d i c a t ea t t h e l a s t h e a r i n g t h a t I would i n c o r p o r a t e , byr e f e r e n c e , all o f h i s p r i o r t e s t i m o n y a t t h e mot ion tos u p p re s s and t h i s was to be supp lementa l t e s t imony .

MR. YOUNG: And I r e c a l l t h e r e was an o b j e c t i o nto t h a t . I have O f f i c e r Dura lde h e re ready to t e s t i f y tot he case . So S t a t e s r eady to go forward .

No r e c o r d i n g f rom 10:07 10:48 a .m.)

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THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . I w i l l s t a t e on ther eco r d t h a t t h e Cour t has made a d e t e rmi n a t i o n t h a t anyp o t e n t i a l c o n f l i c t o f i n t e r e s t t h a t e x i s t s in t h i s casebetween Mr. L e s l i e and Mr. Coughl in does no t r i s e to thel e v e l t h a t it would deny Mr. Coughl in h i s Si x t h Amendmentr i g h t to be r e p r e s e n t e d by counse l .

And f u r t h e r , I f i n d t h a t Mr. L e s l i e has done morethan an adequa te job in r e p r e s e n t i n g Mr. Coughl in in t h e sep ro c e e d i n g s to d a t e and w i l l co n t in u e to do so to theco n c lu s io n o f trial. So

THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Mr. Young - -

I m so r ry , Your Honor. I f I mayHE DEFENDANT:j u s t i n t e r j e c t q u i c k l y . I f t h e r e was someth ing I s a i de a r l i e r t h a t c o n s t it u t e d an e x - p a r t e communica t ion to theCour t , may I a me l i o ra t e t h a t now wi t h t h e C o u r t sindu lgence?

THE COURT: I w i l l a me l i o ra t e it.Mr. Coughl in d id , in a c l o se d proceed ing , sugges t

t h a t one o f t h e w i tn es s e s in t h i s trial was p r i v y t o at a p e - r e c o r d i n g o r a v ideo of p a r t o f t h e i n c i d e n t t h a to c c u r r e d on t h a t day and t h a t t h a t was Mr. Zar a t e . I st h a t c o r r e c t ?

THE DEFENDANT: I f I may Your Honor I ll - -

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THE COURT: Well s o r r y . Was it Mr. Zara te?THE DEFENDANT: No sir. And I d o n t b e l i e v e

y o u r e r e f e r r i n g to t h e i n c i d e n t - - t h e p a r t i c u l a ri n c i d e n t I m r e f e r r i n g t o .

THE COURT: T h e r e s a d i f f e r e n t i n c i d e n t ?MR LESLIE: I t h i n k h e s t a l k i n g - - sh o u ld I

c l a r i f y ? Would you l i k e me to c l a r i f y ?THE COURT: Yeah if it has n o th in g to do wi th

t h i s trial.MR LESLIE: I d o n t t h i n k it has a n y t h i n g to do

wi th t h i s trial.THE COURT: Okay. Wel l you can c l a r i f y then , if

you want .MR LESLIE: It s an a l l e g e d i n c i d e n t where one

o f the w i t n e s se s f l i c k e d a c i g a r e t t e a t Mr. Coughl in .THE COURT: But not a t t h i s on t h i s da te?MR LESLIE: No.THE COURT: T h a t s what w e r e t a l k i n g about ,

Mr. Young and t h a t came ou t , b l u r t e d ou t by Mr. Coughl in ,t h a t he was u p s e t t h a t Mr. L e s l i e had not b rough t t h a t tothe a t t e n t i o n o f t h e Court .

MR YOUNG: So long a s the C o u r t s - - I d o n tt h i n k you w i l l - - so long as t h e C o u r t s no t going toc o n s i d e r t h a t , s i n c e it s not ev idence in t h i s cas e .


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THE COURT:it was imprope r - -

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

Well , I a d v i s e d him a t t h a t t ime t h a t

Thank you.- - to do t h a t , and, you know would

not be c o n s i d e r i n g it in t h i s tri lMR YOUNG:THE COURT:

Thank you.- - u n l e s s it was p r e s e n t e d in t he

tri l itself and was n o t o b j e c t e d t o and was a l lowed to behea rd . So And f r a n k l y , d i d n t have anu n d e r s t a n d i n g o f what it was u n t i l j u s t now.

Dura lde .

a g a i n .

A l l r i g h t .MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

Did you want to c a l l your wi t n e s s ?Yes. S t a t e w i l l c a l l O f f i c e r

J u s t f o r t h e r eco r d , I w i l l swear youI know y o u r e p r o b a b l y still under o a th , bu t w i l l

you r a i s e your r i g h t hand.(Wi tness sworn . )

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

a n o t h e r pad o f p a p e r .

P l e a s e be s e a t e d .Your Honor I m g i v i n g Mr. Coughl in

THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .Wel l , Mr. Coughl in , j u s t t o c l a r i f y t h i s f o r t he

r eco r d , what I had i n s t r u c t e d you t o do p r e v i o u s l y was totype it on your compute r , show it to Mr. L e s l i e a t t he

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conc lus ion , not i n t e r r u p t him dur ing it But when h e sf i n i s h e d examin ing o r h ea r in g e v e ry t h i n g t h a t happens , andt hen f i n i s h e s h i s c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n , t h en p r e s e n t to himany ques t ions t h a t you wish him to ask .

THE DEFENDANT: Yes Your Honor .A l l r i g h t ?

I d id notr e a l i z e you had i n d i c a t e d not to do it d u r in g t h e p ro c e s s .

THE COURT:

d u r i n g t he p r o c e s s .Well I d o n t want you doing itI t hough t I made it c l e a r the l a s t

t ime , because y o u r e i n t e r r u p t i n g Mr. L e s l i e , y o u r ei n t e r r u p t i n g h i s a b i l i t y to p r o p e r l y r e p r e s e n t you tohear what t h e w i t n e s s i s say ing and to o b s e rv e t hedemeanor and e v e ry t h i n g e l s e abou t t h e w i tnes s ; so t h a t ify o u r e i n t e r r u p t i n g him h e s not a b l e to do t h a t .

THE DEFENDANT: Yes sirMR LESLIE: Your Honor ITHE COURT: I can g ive you s u f f i c i e n t t ime a t the

co n c lu s io n o f Mr. L e s l ie s c ro s s -e x a m i n a t io n t o c o n su l twi th him and g iv e him a d d i t i o n a l q u e s t i o n s and t h i n g s t h a tyou wish him to do. All r i g h t ?

THE DEFENDANT: Yes s i r , Your Honor. And I j u s tno te fo r t he re c o rd t h a t a t t h e c o n c l u s i o n o f Mr. Z a r a t e sand G o b l e s c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n s t h e r e was a v e r y b r i e f

p e r i o d where in I was a l lowed to ad d r e s s Mr. L e s l i e .THE COURT: You know what I m go ing to do I w i l l

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t ake a f i v e -mi n u t e r e c e s s a t the c o n c l u s i o n o fMr. D u r a ld e s c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n .

THE DEFENDANT: Thank you sir.THE COURT: You w i l l have f i v e minute s , which I

t h ink shou ld be more than s u f f i c i e n t t ime to show it toMr. L e s l i e .to g r a n t it.

And if he needs more t ime , I would be happyA l l r i g h t ? But let s move on. Right now

y o u r e not to i n t e r r u p t t h e p ro c e s s .THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.MR LESLIE: Your Honor I d o n t mean t o b ea t a

dead horse , and it seems l i k e n o th in g in t h i s case goesqu ick ly , bu t I w i l l say t h i s : I a p p r e c i a t e the C o u r t scomments because I t h ink they w i l l a s s i s t me in be ing ab e t t e r l awyer in t hese proceed ings wi thou t c o n s t a n t l ybe ing i n t e r r u p t e d and d i s t r a c t e d .

I w i l l say t h i s , though , I a c t u a l l y do i n v i t eMr. Coughl in t o l e a n ove r and whispe r if he has ques t ions .All I ask i s t h a t if I i n d i c a t e to him to ho ld on a momentso I can l i s t e n , t h a t he honor t h a t . Othe r than t h a t ,though, I d o n t have an o b j e c t i o n to him wh i s p e r i n g o rpush ing me n o t e s d u r in g , you know any p o r t i o n dur ing thew i tn e s s examina t ion , as long as he w i l l r e s p e c t a t t imes I

need to waive him o f f so I can l i s t e n , and then he and Ican c o n fe r .

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THE COURT: Well , t h a t s f a i r .MR LESLIE: So I d o n t want him t o f e e l t h a t he

c a n t t a l k to me.THE COURT:

Mr. L e s l i e , no t you.I m l e a v i n g it in t he d i s c r e t i o n o fSo if he pushes you o f f , t hen y o u l l

have to honor t h a t , bu t you w i l l have t he o p p o r t u n i t yaga in a t t h e c o n c l u s i o n o f the c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n .r i g h t ?

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sirTHE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Mr. Young.MR YOUNG: Thank you, Your Honor .

NICHOLAS DURALDE

Al l

p r e v i o u s l y c a l l e d as a w i tn es s by t he p l a i n t i f f here in ,b e in g first d u l y sworn , was examined

and t e s t i f i e d as f o l l o w s :DIRECT EXAMINATION Resumed)

BY MR YOUNG:Q Good morning , sir Could you s t a t e your first

and l a s t name and s p e l l b o t h fo r t he r e c o r d i n g .A Nicho la s Dura lde . F i r s t name, N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S,

l a s t name, D-U-R-A-L-D-E.

MR. YOUNG: Okay. And, Your Honor, t h i s i s be ingr ecorded , yes?

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THE COURT: Yes.MR YOUNG: Thank you.THE COURT: Let me t r y to r a i s e it Oh y o u r e

s t a n d i n g up. I m s o r r y . I do a p o l o g i z e . I d i d n t knowt h a t you w e r e n t in t h e c h a i r .

MR YOUNG: I d i d n t know you were s t a n d i n ge i t h e r .

THE COURT: Well he was way down inthe ( inaud ib le ) bot tom.

MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

I do t he same t h i n g .It w a s n t meant to be t h a t .

hones t w i t h you you were so low down in t h e box.BY MR YOUNG:

To be

Q S i r , c o u l d you tell t he Cour t wi t h whom y o u r ec u r r e n t l y employed?

AQ

AQ

The Reno Po l i c e Depar tment .How l ong have you been so employed?Approx ima te ly f i v e and a h a l f y e a r s .Could you tell t h e Cour t t he t r a i n i n g s t h a t you

d id to become an o f f i c e r from - -A I p a r t i c i p a t e d in a 19-week POST academy and

a f t e r g r a d u a t i n g t h a t went to a 16-week f i e l d t r a i n i n g

program.THE COURT: I m so r ry , what k ind o f t r a i n i n g ?

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THE WITNESS:THE COURT:

F i e l d t r a i n i n g program.Oh f i e l d . I j u s t d i d n ' t hear .

BY MR YOUNG:

AWhat d i d t h e f i e l d t r a i n i n g c o n s i s t of?The t r a i n e e o f f i c e r i s coupled wi t h a t en u r ed

t r a i n i n g o f f i c e r , who b a s i c a l l y works from t he t r a i n i n go f f i c e r , o b s e r v in g to , by the end o f t he t r a i n i n g programthe t r a i n e e o f f i c e r i s t r a c k i n g a l l t a s k s r e l a t i v e to thejob .

THE COURT: Did you say t e n yea r o r t en u r e ?THE WITNESS: Tenured .THE COURT: Tenured okay.

BY MR YOUNG:QA

And d id you g r ad u a t e o r pass t he POST academy?Yes.And d id you pass o r g r ad u a t e from t h i s f i e l d

t r a i n i n g program?AQ

Yes.In t he f i v e and a h a l f y e a r s as an o f f i c e r , have

you r e c e i v e d upda ted t r a i n i n g s t h ro u g h o u t t h a t t ime?A

wel l?A

Yes.Okay. And have you passed ll t h o s e t r a i n i n g s as

Yes.

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Q Okay. S i r , I m going to d i r e c t your a t t e n t i o n toAugust 2 0 th o f 2011. Were you work ing on t h a t n i g h t , ont h a t day?

AQ

c o u r t ?A

QA

Yes.And d i d someth ing happen which b r i n g s you he re to

Yes.Could you tell t h e Judge what was t h a t , p l e a s e .nitially I was d i s p a t c h e d to a r e p o r t of a

d i s t u r b a n c e o r p o s s i b l e f i g h t in t h e a r e a o f t h e p laza a tF i r s t and V i r g i n i a S t r e e t s . While I was d r i v i n g t h e red i s p a t c h u p d a t e d us say ing t h a t l a r c e n y o f a phone hado c c u r r e d .

Q The l o c a t i o n t h a t you j u s t d e s c r i b e d , i s t h a the re in Reno?

AQAQ

Yes.Washoe County Nevada?Yes.And so t h a t b e in g t h e a r e a o f 10 Nor th V i r g i n i a

S t r e e t and North C e n te r S t r e e t ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?AQ

Yes.And c o u ld you tell t h e Cour t as f a r as l andmarks

h e re , so t h e Judge i s f a m i l i a r , what a r e a o f town y o u r et a l k i n g abou t?

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That p l a z a i s b o rd e re d on one s i d e by the TruckeeRive r , on t h e s o u th s i d e by the Truckee Rive r , n o r t h s i d eby F i r s t S t r e e t , on t h e west s i d e by V i r g i n i a S t r e e t , onthe e a s t s i d e by Nor th Cente r S t r e e t .

Qscene?

A

QA

Okay

YesOkay

When you a r r i v e d - - d id you a r r i v e on

And what d id you see o r n o t i c e ?When I a r r i v e d t h e r e was a group o f peop le on the

Cente r S t r e e t b r i d g e .Q T h a t s f a i r . Did d i s p a t c h ad v i s e you o f a

s p e c i f i c s u b j e c t o r g i v e you a d e s c r i p t i o n o f a s p e c i f i cs u b j e c t

AQ

Q

Yes- - t h a t was the s u b j e c t o f t h e c a l l ?YesOkay And d id you see an i n d i v i d u a l matching

t h a t d e s c r i p t i o n ?AQ

Q

YesOkayYes

I s t h a t pe rson in the cour t room today?

Could you t ll the Judge , p o i n t ou t what h e swear ing today .

A Mr Coughl in was t h a t person . He s wear ing a

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be ige su i tMR YOUNG:THE COURT:

Okay Your Honor - -The r eco r d w i l l r e f l e c t the

i d e n t i f i c a t i o n of the de fendan t , Mr Coughl in .BY MR YOUNG:

Q Okay Did you have any c o n t a c t wi t hMr Coughl in?

AQA

YesOkay Could you t ll the Cour t how t h a t began?The first t h i n g I r e c a l l s ay in g to Mr Coughl in

was t h a t if he had someone s phone t h a t he cou ld p robab lyg ive the phone back and the whole i s s u e would be s e t t l e da t t h a t t ime .

QAQA

OkayYes

And d id Mr Coughl in r e spond to you?

What d i d he say?He asked me if I had enough i n fo rma t i o n fo r a

Ter ry s t o p .Q What happened n ex t , s i r ? Well , l t me - - l e t me

s t r i k e t h a t q u e s t i o n . Did you u l t i m a t e - - wi t h o u t t e l l i n gus what - - s p e c i f i c a l l y what o t h e r s t o l d you d id you havet he o p p o r t u n i t y to meet wi th o t h e r i n d i v i d u a l s on scene?

AQ

YesDo you r e c a l l the names o f t h o s e i n d i v i d u a l s ?

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AQ

Yes; Cory Goble and Nathan Za ra t e .Okay. And d id t h ey g iv e you i n fo rma t i o n , aga in ,

wi thou t g i v i n g s p e c i f i c s , which a s s i s t e d you in youri n v e s t i g a t i o n ?

AQ

Yes.All r i g h t . I w i l l ask you i e i t h e r o f them t o l d

you a s p e c i f i c l o c a t i o n o f one o f t h e i r phones?

QAQA

Yes.And do you r e c a l l who t h a t was?I r e c a l l bo th .Okay. And what was t h a t l o c a t i o n ?That l o c a t i o n it was s t a t e d t h a t Mr. G o b le s

phone was in t he d e f e n d a n t s l e f t f r o n t s h o r t s pocke t .Q And d id he?

MR LESLIE:MR. YOUNG:

O b jec t io n ; h e a r sa y .And I m o n l y u s in g t h a t , Your Honor

not fo r t he t r u t h , bu t j u s t to e s t a b l i s h what was donenext as p a r t o f t he e f f e c t on t he h e a r e r as p a r t o f thei n v e s t i g a t i o n . And I m a s k i n g you no t to c o n s i d e r h i st e s t i m o n y in t h a t r eg a r d fo r t r u t h o f t he m a t t e r .

what?THE COURT:

MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

His t e s t imony in t h a t r eg a r d as to

I m so r ry?His not c o n s i d e r h i s t e s t i m o n y fo r

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what purpose?MR YOUNG: I asked what - - what was - - what he

was ad v i s ed . And he adv ised he r e c a l l e d b o th s a y i n g - -THE COURT: Well I hea rd - -MR YOUNG: - - t he phone was in Mr. C o u g h l in s

l e f t f r o n t s h o r t s pocke t .THE COURT: But what i s the purpose o f t h a t

t e s t imony?MR YOUNG: Well it s going to show what he

s u b s eq u en t ly d i d as p a r t o f t h i s i n v e s t i g a t i o n .

Honor.

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

Al l r i g h t . So it s - -E f f e c t on h e a r e r e s s e n t i a l l y , Your

All r i g h t . Then I m going too v e r r u l e t he o b j e c t i o n .BY MR YOUNG:

S i r , what was - - was Mr. Coughl in u l t i m a t e l yp laced i n t o handcuf f s?

A

Acommands.

Q

Yes.And fo r what purpose was t h a t ?Mr. Coughl in was v e ry h e s i t a n t to fo l low

Okay. All r i g h t . Now g e t t i n g back to youri n v e s t i g a t i o n r e g a rd i n g a phone; d id you t ak e any a c t i o n s

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to de te rmine whether o r not Mr. Coughl in , in f a c t , hadMr. G o b le ' s phone?

AQ

those?A

Yes.And what a c t i o n s were those o r what s t eps were

I s to o d n ea r Mr. Coughl in and I c a l l e d the phonenumber t h a t Mr. Goble had g iven me, h i s phone number.

Q And so Mr. Goble gave you - - when you say , h i sphone number , Mr. Goble ' s phone number?

AQ

happened?AQAQ

Yes.Okay. And when you c a l l e d t h a t number, what

I cou ld hear the phone v i b r a t i n g .Okay. From where?From t h e a re a of Mr. C o u g h l in ' s l ft f r o n t .Did you, fo r l a c k of a b e t t e r wordTHE COURT: You heard the phone o r a phone?THE WITNESS: I hea rd a phone.

BY MR YOUNG:Q Okay. And a t t h i s p o i n t had you - - had anybody

i d e n t i f i e d a phone as Mr. Goble ' s phone to you? In o t h e rwords, had you seen Mr. Goble ' s phone a t t h i s j unc tu re?

A No.Q Okay. Had Mr. Coughl in handed you over any phone

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i d e n t i f i e d as Mr. G o b le s phone?

Q

No.So you hea rd a phone. Was t h a t was what you

hea rd concea led on Mr. C o u g h l in s p e r s o n o r out in t heopen?

AQ

Q

Concea led on h i s person .Did you s t o p c a l l i n g t h a t phone number?Yes.And ag a in , when you t e rmi n a t e d , f o r l a c k o f a

b e t t e r word t h a t phone c a l l , d id you n o t i c e anyth ing?A Yes. When I t e r min a t ed t h e phone c a l l the

v i b r a t i n g s topped .Q Okay. At t h a t j u n c t u r e what happened?

At t h a t j u n c t u r e I de te rmined t h a t Mr. Coughl inwas in p o s s e s s i o n o f Mr. G o b le s phone .

Q Okay. And you d id what?I p l a c e d him under a r r e s t .

Q Okay. And t hen what? In o t h e r words d id yout ake any s t e p s t o r e t r i e v e t he phone o r a phone?

A Yes. Perfo rmed a s ea r ch i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t o fMr. Coughl in and t o o k t h e phone t h a t had been in the l e f tf ron t pocke t ou t o f t h e pocke t .

Q Okay. Did you s p e c i f i c a l l y r each in and grabt h a t phone?

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AQ

YesOkay Did Mr Coughl in a t any t ime hand t h e

phone o v e r to you?AQAQ

NoOkayYes

And he was under a r r e s t a t t h i s j u n c tu r e?

When you say , s ea r ch i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t , couldyou d e s c r i b e t o t h e Court what t h a t i s .

A se a rc h i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t i s an a r r e s t - - I 'mso r ry , a se a rc h a f t e r someone 's been t aken i n t o cus tody .

e know t h a t t h e y ' r e b e in g t r a n s p o r t e d to t h e jail and wet ake e v e ry t h i n g ou t o f t h e i r pocke t s t o a s su re t hey haveno th ing i l l e g a l o r any th ing t h a t can be used a g a i n s t ano f f i c e r that s t r a n s p o r t i n g them

Q P r i o r to your s ecu r in g o r s e i z i n g t h e phone a f t e rh i s a r r e s t , had you a t any t ime gone i n t o Mr C o u g h l i n ' spocke t s p r i o r to t h a t t ime?

AQ

Q

NoAs p a r t of the s ea r ch , I mean?NoOkay Did you t ake any s t e p s to de te rmine whose

phone t h a t was?AQ

YesWhat d id you do?

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A The phone had a password on it I askedMr. Goble fo r t h e password . He was unab le to p ro v i d e

Hearsay .MR LESLIE:


I m going to o b j e c t , Your Honor.

That he asked?Wel l Your Honor any th ing t h a t

Mr. Goble says would be h ea r s ay .

heading .

MR YOUNG: T h a t s f i n e .MR LESLIE: I mean I - -THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Well I - -MR LESLIE: t h i n k t h a t s where we a re

THE COURT: - - w il l s u s t a i nMR LESLIE: And I m t r y i n g to be

con temporaneous .THE COURT: - - the o b j e c t i o n . What Mr. Goble

s a i d , bu t no t as to what the o f f i c e r s a i d .MR LESLIE: Righ t .MR YOUNG: And t h a t s f i ne , Your Honor.

BY MR YOUNG:Q Did you t ak e s t e p s to de te rmine whether o r not

t h a t phone t h a t you s e i z e d out of Mr. Co u g h l i n s pocke t

was in f a c t Mr. G o b l e s phone?A Yes.

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QA

Lack o f

Honor

Okay WereYesMR LESLIE:

f o u n d a t io n .MR YOUNG:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

y u ab le to make t h a t d e te r min a t io n ?

I m going to o b j e c t , Your Honor

I f I can, a - -Ca l l s f o r an u l t i m a t e co n c lu s io n .

WellPa r t o f h i s i n v e s t i g a t i o n , Your

Okay I w i l l s u s t a i n t h e o b j e c t i o nas to the c o n c l u s i o n , bu t no t as to whe the r o r no t t ak ings t e p s t o de te rmine who t h e owner was And I guess he canq u e s t i o n as to what s t e p s he t o o k and

MR YOUNG: Could I approach and c o l l e c t Ex h i b i t se i t h e r A and B o r 1 and 2 , whatever they a re?

THE COURT: Sure . I d o n t know i I have themI do

Are t h e s e t h e e x h i b i t s y o u r e t a l k i n g about?MR YOUNG: Yes And t h e se have p r e v i o u s l y been

admi t ted .THE COURT: They were ad mi t t ed a t t h e mot ion to

s u p p r e s s .BY MR YOUNG:

Q As p a r t o f your i n v e s t i g a t i o n in d e t e rm i n i n g o r

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t a k i n g s t e p s to de te rmine i t he phone you r ecovered wasMr. G o b l e s , d i d you t ake pho tographs o f t h e phone t h a tyou recove red?

AQ

Yes.Okay. Taking a look a t E x h i b i t s A and B t h a t

have b e e n a d mi t t e d . Do you r eco g n ize t h o s e photographs?A

QAQAQ

Yes.What a r e t hose , s i r ?Those a r e pho tographs o f t he phone .Who t ook those?I d i d .Okay. And those i s t h a t t he phone in q u e s t i o n

t h a t w e r e t a l k i n g about?AQ

Yes.Okay. What d id you do wi t h t h a t phone a t the

co n c lu s io n o f your i n v e s t i g a t i o n ?A I comple ted a photo r e l e a s e c e r t i f i c a t e , where I

documented t h e phone by pho tograph ing it and then gave itback to Mr. Goble .

Q Okay. And a re those p i c t u r e s t r u e and a c c u r a t epho tographs o f t he phone t h a t you c o l l e c t e d ?

AQ

A

Yes.So it was r e t u r n e d to Mr. Goble?Yes.

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Were you - - what was your ttire t h a t n ig h t?In a f u l l p o l i c e uni fo rm.

Q

Q Okay. And you a r r i v e d o r d r i v e up to the scene ,c o r r e c t , in a p a t r o l car?

A Yes.Q Was t h a t a marked p a t r o l car?

Yes it was.Q I d e n t i f y i n g it as a Reno Po l i c e Department

v e h i c l e ?AQA

Q

Yes.Lig h t s on top?Yes.And t h e whole n ines? Okay.

Mr. Coughl in hand you t h i s phone?No.

At any t ime d i d

AQ At any t ime d id Mr. Coughl in i n d i c a t e to you t h a t

he had a phone? In o t h e r words Mr. G o b le s phone?No.

Q And t h a t was a bad q u e s t i o n . At any t ime d i dMr. Coughl in ad v i s e you t h a t he had Mr. G o b le s phone?

QNo.I m not s u r e if you remember l e t us know. About

from t h e t ime you a r r i v e d on scene u n t i l t h e t ime o fMr. C o u g h l i n s a r r e s t , can you e s t i m a t e how long we r e

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t a l k i n g ?

Qc l e a r .

I would e s t i m a t e f i v e minu tes .Okay. And I j u s t want to make su re t h a t I m

You a d v i se d t h a t when you c a l l e d t h e number t h a twas Mr. G o b l e s number t h a t was p r o v id ed to you you s a i dt h a t it was - - how do you know it was v i b r a t i n g ? I d o n tknow if I q u i t e caught t h a t .

AQ

I cou ld h e a r it.Okay.MR YOUNG: T h a t s all Your Honor.Thank you O f f i c e r .THE COURT: Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE: C o u r t s i n d u lg en ce , Your Honor.THE COURT: Yeah.MR LESLIE: I m j u s t going to c o n f e r wi t h

Mr. Coughl in r e a l qu ick .Thank you Your Honor. I j u s t wanted to t a l k to

Mr. Coughl in b e f o r e s t a r t i n g t he c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n .THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

All r i g h t .Your Honor do you o b j e c t to me

s i t t i n g whi le I examine t h e w i tn e s s ?THE COURT:

MR LESLIE:

No I do no t .

Thank you Judge .

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CROSS EXAMINATIONBY MR LESLIE:

Q O f f i c e r , you i n d i c a t e d t h a t you were o r i g i n a l l yd i sp a t c h e d to what you d e sc r i b e d as a d i s t u r b a n c e o r ap o s s i b l e f i g h t ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

AQ

YesAnd t h a t b e f o r e you a r r i v e d on scene , d i s p a t c h

upda ted you and s a i d t h a t it might have someth ing to dowi th t h e l a r c e n y o f a phone?

A

QYesDo you r e c a l l t e s t if y i n g p r e v i o u s l y a t the mot ion

to s u p p re s s ?

AQA

Q

YesAnd t h a t was l a s t week?YesAnd my n o t e s r e f l e c t t h a t ll you s a i d a t t h a t

p o i n t wi t h r e g a rd to the upda te on t h e numerous occas ions

t h a t b o t h c o u n s e l asked you about t h e u p d a t e d i n f o r ma t io nfrom d i s p a t c h was t h a t t h e upda te was t h a t it might be al a r c e n y . Do you r e c a l l t h a t ?

A I d o n t .Q So you s a i d back a t t h e su p p re s s i o n h ea r in g t h a t

the upda te i n fo rma t i o n from d i s p a t c h was t h a t it mightinvo lve a l a r c e n y , bu t y o u r e say ing today fo r the first

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t ime t h a t d i s p a t c h t o l d you it might i n v o lv e t h e l a r c e n yo f a phone?

AQ

Yes.Okay. So your t e s t imo n y changed f rom t he t ime o f

the su p p re s s i o n h e a r i n g l a s t week to t oday in t h a t rega rd?AQ

Yes.Do you have any r eason to p r o t e c t y o u r s e l f in

t h i s case by making s u r e t h i s case r e s u l t s in a c o n v i c t i o nso t h a t you d o n t g e t sued based on t h r e a t s t h a tMr. Coughl in may have made?

AQ

No.Y o u r e aware t h a t h e s made such t h r e a t s ?MR YOUNG: I m j u s t going to o b j e c t , no t to t h e

q u e s t i o n , bu t t h r e a t s to who? It may be a vague q u e s t i o n .MR LESLIE: I can c l a r i f y .

BY MR LESLIE:Q Yo u r e aware t h a t Mr. Coughl in has p r e v i o u s l y

i n d i c a t e d t h e p o s s i b i l i t y o f f i l i n g s u i t based on h i sp e r c e p t i o n o f how he was t r e a t e d w i th r e g a r d to t h ec o n t a c t you had w i th him t h a t n i g h t ?

A

Q

AQ

I h o n e s t l y d o n t r e c a l l t h a t .You ve no t been made aware o f t h a t ?I d o n t r e c a l l itSo you d o n t r e c a l l whe the r anybody made you

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aware of t h a t ?

Q

No.So t h ey c o u ld have made you aware o f t h a t , you

j u s t d o n t r e c a l l t h a t a t t h i s t ime; i s t h a tAQ

No.i s t h a t p o ss i b l e ? I m t r y i n g to n a i l down

whethe r y o u r e say ing I was t o l d about t h a t , but I d o n tremember it o r I v e neve r been t o l d about t h a t o r I havebeen t o l d about t h a t . Could you h e lp c l a r i f y t h a t fo r us?

A I f any t h r e a t s had been made a l a w su i t a g a i n s tmysel f r e f e r e n c e my c o n t a c t wi th Mr. Coughl in , I m notaware o f it

Q Okay. And you i n d i c a t e d when you first a r r i v e don scene and some o f t h i s may be r edundan t to what yout e s t i f i e d to l a s t week thank you.

Pardon me.THE COURT: No prob lem.

BY MR LESLIE:Q You i n d i c a t e d when you a r r i v e d on scene t h a t you

were uni fo rmed?

QAQ

Yes.You had a gunYes.

t h a t was v i s i b l e to t h e p u b l i c ?

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AQ

AQAQA

QA

QAQ

AQ

Yes.You a r r i v e d i n a marked p o l i c e car?Yes.With l i g h t s and s i r e n s ?y l i g h t s and s i r e n s w e r e n t a c t i v e in t h e day.

But I mean t h ey a r e on t h e v e h i c l e ?They a re on the v e h i c l e , yes .And y o u r e RPD i s i t ?Yes.So it s t h e b l ack and whi te p o l i c e car?Yes.Recognizab le to t he p u b l i c as a p o l i c e ca r?

Yes.Okay. Now when you first a r r i v e d on scene , you

got ou t of your v e h i c l e , and I b e l i e v e one o f the firstt h i n g s you n o t i c e d was a l a r g e group of peop le su r round ingMr. Coughl in?

A

QYes.And I t h i n k we e s t a b l i s h e d t h a t t h a t was anywhere

from in your e s t i m a t i o n , 8 to 12 peop le r a n g i n g in agefrom a p a r e n t to t e e n a g e r s to e a r l y 20s?

A

QA

Yes.And t h ey were a g i t a t e d ?Yes.

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Q They appea red to be angry o r h o s t i l e towardsMr. Coughl in , from what you cou ld t e l l ?

AQ

s id e s ?AQ

w i t h i nthem?

A

I

Yes.And t h ey were e f f e c t i v e l y s u r ro u n d i n g him on a l l

Yes.Some of them were se a t e d nex t to him ve ry c l o se ,t h i n k you i n d i c a t e d s i x to e i g h t inches , some o f

Yes. He was s i t t i n g down and on e i t h e r s i d e ofhim was someone s i t t i n g nex t to him.

Q Okay. And was anyone beh ind him?A

QNo.Was t h e r e any r a i l i n g o r any o b s t r u c t i o n beh ind

him t h a t would have p re v e n t e d him j u s t l e a v i n g i n t h a td i r e c t i o n b e h in d him?

AQ

He was s i t t i n g on a r a i l i n g .Okay. And he was s i t t i n g in such a way t h a t he

was down lower t h a n t h e peop le who were s tand ing?AQ

Yes.Okay. And so t h e r a i l i n g he was s i t t i n g on I

t h i n k you s a i d was o n ly abou t 18 i n c h e s o f f t h e ground?AQ

Yes.Okay. And so j u s t to kind o f c l a r i f y what I m

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a s k i n g abou t w i t h r e g a r d to a n y t h i n g b e i n g b e h in d him; wast h e r e any o b s t r u c t i o n , r a i l i n g , w a l l , e t c e t e r a , beh indhim as he s a t in t h a t p o s i t i o n ?

A There was n o t h i n g b e h in d him. The s t r e e t wasbeh ind him o t h e r t h a n t h e r a i l i n g he was s i t t i n g on.

Q Okay. And were t h e r e any o f t h e s e young p e o p lep o s i t i o n e d b e h i n d him?

AQ

No.Okay. And t h e n some o f them were s t a n d i n g w i t h i n

a fo o t o r two o f him?A I d o n t r e c a l l how c l o s e t h e p e o p l e were to him

t h a t were s t a n d i n g .QAQAQ

But some o f them were s t a n d i n g ?Yes.In f r o n t o f him?Yes.And would you e s t i m a t e ag a in , how many - - and I

u n d e r s t an d it s an e s t i m a t e , bu t how many o f t h e s e peop lewere s t a n d i n g i n f r o n t o f him as opposed to t h o s e s i t t e r s ?

A

QAn e s t i m a t e would be maybe f o u r o r f i v e .Okay. And we hea rd t e s t imo n y f rom a n o t h e r

w i t n e s s , so I d o n t know what you saw b u t d id you see anyo f t h e p e r s o n s s u r r o u n d in g him ev e r p u t t h e i r hands on h i sb i c y c l e ?

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him?

AQ

AQ

Not t h a t I r e c a l l .Okay.

No.Okay.

Did you ev e r see them p u t t h e i r hands on

Would it be s a f e to say t h a t it appea redt h a t t h ey had him su r rounded and he was no t in a p o s i t i o nto l eave?

AQA

Yes.And s e v e r a l o f them had sk a t e b o a rd s?I r e c a l l peop le hav ing s k a t e b o a r d s . I c o u l d n ' t

say how many t h e r e were .Q I though t the word seve ra l might be th rowing

you fo r a cu r v e . But t h e r e were s a f e to say , more t hanone sk a t e b o a rd amongst t h i s group?

AQ

Yes.Okay. And d id t h ey , in f a c t , a p p e a r to be a

group o f peop le i n c l u d i n g some s k a t e r s , fo r l a c k o f ab e t t e r te rm?

A Yes.Q Okay. Safe to say a sk a t e b o a rd cou ld be used to

i n f l i c t s e r i o u s b o d i l y harm i swung a t and s t r u c k aperson?

AQ

Yes.Okay. In f ac t , as an o f f i c e r , i you were

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co n f r o n t ed w i th somebody wi th a sk a t e b o a rd and you thoughtthey were h o s t i l e towards you you would be on a l e r t , soto speak?

AQ

Yes.Mr. Coughl in was not wear ing p r o t e c t i v e c l o t h i n g

t h a t n i g h t , he j u s t had s h o r t s , a T - s h i r t s ty l e s h i r t , anda Chicago ha t ?

AQA

Yes.Okay.Yes.

And he was outnumbered?

MR LESLIE: Sor ry , Your Honor . I paused t h e r efo r a moment. I was r e c e i v i n g a c a l l from Las Vegas bu tI t u r n ed it o f f .BY MR LESLIE:

Q Now you i n d i c a t e d , I b e l i e v e , t h a t you handcuf fedhim p a r t l y because he was h e s i t a n t to fo l low yourcommands?

AQ

Yes.I t h i n k we e s t a b l i s h e d l a s t t ime when I asked you

if he was annoy ing , you a c t u a l l y answered more c o r r e c t l yand i n d i c a t e d t h a t you were becoming f r u s t r a t e d ?

MR YOUNG: Your Honor I m going to o b j e c t to

t h a t as f a r as r e l evance .MR LESLIE: t goes to h i s b i a s , Your Honor.

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MR YOUNG: Your Honor and t h a t was - - youa l lowed t h a t a t t he motion to s u p p r e s s h e a r i n g wi t hr e s p e c t t o suppres s ion . Now t h a t y o u v e r u l e d on t h a t , itd o e s n t have any b e a r i n g wi t h r e s p e c t to any m a t e r i a l f a c tin t h i s ch a r g e .

MR LESLIE: Your Honor I b e l i e v e it w i l l ify o u l l - - I mean he a l r e a d y t e s t i f i e d to it All I wantto do i s c o n f i rm t h a t . And I b e l i e v e t h a t with ano the rcoup le o f q u e s t i o n s t h a t Mr. Coughl in has s u g g es t ed I askt h e r e w i l l be a t l e a s t a c o l o r a b l e c l a im o f w i t n e s s b i a s .And I t h i n k t he Cour t shou ld know whe the r o r not t h i sw i tn es s


Okay. I w i l l o v e r r u l e t he o b j e c t i o n .Thank you.

BY MR LESLIE:Q I b e l i e v e t h a t you based on h i s b eh av io r towards

you you became f r u s t r a t e d ?AQ

Yes.At some p o i n t dur ing your e n c o u n t e r and your

i n t e r a c t i o n s w i th Mr. Coughl in , d i d you o r a n o t h e r o f f i c e rhave any d i s c u s s i o n o r make any s t a t e m e n t s with r eg a r d toa r r e s t i n g him f o r a f e lo n y v e r su s a misdemeanor?

MR YOUNG: Again Your Honor I m going too b j e c t to t h a t as r e l e v a n c e .

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proof?


I mean I - -THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

What i s t h e r e l e v a n c e ?Your Honor may I make an o f f e r o f

What i s t he - -Well 11m in fo rmed and b e l i e v e t h a t

what may have o c c u r re d i s t h a t one o r more o f t h e o f f i c e r smay have s a i d to Mr. Coughl in , lIyou know why d o n t wej u s t a r r e s t you f o r a f e lo n y i n s t e a d o f a misdemeanorbecause t he b a i l w i l l be h i g h e r and we d o n t have to j u s ti s s u e you a c i t a t i o n , we can hau l you up to jail r i g h tnow.

And 11m t r y i n g to e s t a b l i s h whe the r o r not t h e r ewas some s o r t o f mo t i v a t i o n o r r e t a l i a t i o n a g a i n s tMr. Coughl in .

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Well I d o n t u n d e r s t a n d .Can I f i n i s h my o f f e r ?

You d o n t have to - - w el l , I j u s thave a q u e s t i o n .

MR LESLIE: Okay.THE COURT: Whether o r not he was cha rged wi th a

f e lony o r a misdemeanor t h ey d o n t have to i s s u e ac i t a t i o n .

MR LESLIE: Your Honor. Hold on. Your Honort h i s o c c u r re d l a t e a t n i g h t . t was no t commit ted

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a l l e g e d l y commit ted in t h e o f f i c e r s p re se n c e . It s ourp o s i t i o n t h a t t h e y may n o t have been j u s t i f i e d in t a k i n ghim i n t o c u s t o d y and p l a c i n g him a t t h e jail t h a t n i g h t ,u n l e s s it was f o r a f e lo n y . I f he was in f a c t , a r r e s t e dfo r a f e lo n y . H e s now cha rged wi t h a p e t t y l a r c e n y ,which means t h a t t h e D.A. has made t h e d e t e r m i n a t i o n t h a tt he grand l a r c e n y was n o t an a p p r o p r i a t e c h a rg e .t r y i n g t o f i n d ou t if t h e o f f i c e r o r o f f i c e r s werem o t i v a t e d a g a i n s t - -

I m

THE COURT: I ll a l low you a few q u e s t i o n s , bu tI - -

MR YOUNG: I ll renew my o b j e c t i o n .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . O b jec t io n i s o v e r ru l e d .

Y MR LESLIE:Q So was t h e r e any such d i s c u s s i o n abou t a r r e s t i n g

fo r a f e lo n y v e r s u s a misdemeanor?AQA

r e c a l lQ

I d o n t r e c a l l any d i s c u s s i o n .By y o u r s e l f o r by o t h e r o f f i c e r s ?I d o n t r e c a l l any d i s c u s s i o n by myse l f .

t h a t Mr. Cough l in was a r r e s t e d f o r a f e lo n y .But was it your u n d e r s t an d in g t h a t if you

I do

a r r e s t e d him f o r a misdemeanor you would no t be ab le tos ea r ch him i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t , you would i n s t e a d i s s u e hima c i t a t i o n ?

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A As t he v a lu e o f t h e phone s t a t e d to me was 300,and ove r t he grand l a r c e n y 1111 say over t he amount fo rp e t t y l a r c e n y t made t a grand l a r c e n y I d i d n l t looki n t o whe the r Mr. Coughl in q u a l i f i e d f o r a c i t a t i o n o r no t .

Q Mr. Coughl in a t one p o i n t gave h i s b a r number; i st h a t c o r r e c t ?


BY MR LESLIE:

11m s o r r y . At one p o i n tGave h i s b a r number .

Oh, gave h i s b a r number . Okay.

Q I d o n l t expec t you to remember t h e b a r number,but do you remember him g i v i n g h i s name and t h en r e c i t i n gh i s b a r number?

I r e c a l l him i d e n t i f y i n g h i mse l f as a l awyer . Id o n l t r e c a l l an y th in g more s p e c i f i c .

Q Did you o r d id any o f t h e o t h e r o f f i c e r s in yourpresence i n d i c a t e to him t h a t t h ey o r you might c a l l t hes t a t e b a r and r e p o r t him fo r h i s behav io r?

Q

I d o n l t r e c a l l .Are you denying t h a t t h a t happened o r you j u s t

c a n l t remember one way o r t h e o t h e r?A

QA

I d o n l t remember one way o r t h e o t h e r .Okay. So t h a t might have happened then?Yes, t might have .

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Q Okay.MR LESLIE: Co u r t l s indu lgence , Your Honor .

BY MR LESLIE:Q At one p o i n t p r i o r to a c t u a l l y a r r e s t i n g him, you

had p laced your hands on him; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?A

Q

Honor.

Yes.Okay. And he exc la imed d u r in g t h a t someth ing to

MR YOUNG: O b jec t io n as to what he though t , YourNo way t h e o f f i c e r can know t h a t .

MR LESLIE: Very w e l l . 1111 r e p h ra se .BY MR LESLIE:

QA

QA

p e n i s .Q

He s a i d , Donl t touch my p e n i s ?T h a t l s not what I r e c a l l him say ing .What do you r e c a l l him s a y i n g abou t t h a t i s s u e?I r e c a l l him y e l l in g t h a t I was t o u c h i n g h i s

Okay. Was t h a t one o f t h e t h i n g s t h a t f r u s t r a t e dyou abou t him?

MR YOUNG: Again, Your Honor, 1111 o b j e c t as tor e l e v a n c e . t d o e s n l t prove o r d i s p r o v e any f ac t o rconsequence . t S i r r e l e v a n t .

THE COURT: What i s t h e r e l ev an ce?

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Goes to w i t n e s s b i a s , Your Honor.Again I ll a l low it fo r t h e l i m i t e d

purpose and o v e r r u l e the ~ b j e c t i o nTHE WITNESS: I d o n t r e c a l l s p e c i f i c a l l y if t h a t

made me more f r u s t r a t e d o r n o t .BY MR LESLIE:

Q But in any even t , t h a t o c c u r re d p r i o r to yourd e t e r m i n a t i o n to a r r e s t ?

A Yes.And h i s - - h i s h e s i t a n c e t o fo l low your commands

o ccu r r ed p r i o r to your d e c i s i o n to a r r e s t ?A Yes.

And h i s p ro v i d i n g h i s name and p o s s i b l y h i s b a rnumber b u t no t answer ing your q u e s t i o n , o c c u r re d p r i o r toyour d e t e r m i n a t i o n to a r r e s t ?

A Yes.And h i s q u e s t i o n i n g whe the r you had a u t h o r i t y

unde r Ter r y o c c u r re d p r i o r to your d e t e r m i n a t i o n toa r r e s t ?

A Yes.And your f r u s t r a t i o n , as you d e s c r i b e d it a t the

l a s t hear ing , e x i s t e d p r i o r to your d e t e r m i n a t i o n t o

a r r e s t ?A Yes.

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Q About how long was it be tween t h e t ime t h a t youfirst o b se r v e d Mr. Coughl in b e in g e n c i r c l e d by t h e h o s t i l eyoung peop le and t h e t ime t h a t you de te rmined to a r r e s thim?

A Bes t e s t i m a t e would be be tween f i v e and t e nm in u te s

Q And how much t ime took p l a c e be tween when youinitially a r r i v e d on scene and you saw pu t eyes on whoyou now i d e n t i f y as Mr. Coughl in?

A Very s h o r t p e r i o d o f t ime I d sa y no more t han15 seconds

Q

AQ

Okay.

Yes.Okay.

Immediate?

And how much t ime be tween your initiala r r i v a l and when you d e t a i n e d him?

A I made t h e d e t e r m i n a t i o n t h a t he was not f r e e tol e ave when I saw him and he fit t he d e s c r i p t i o n g iv e n by

d i s p a t c hQ Okay. And t hen how much t ime be tween t h e t ime

you initially a r r i v e d and t he t ime you p l a c e d him inc u f f s? And was it you t h a t p laced him in t h e c u f f s?

A

QYes.Okay So how much t ime be tween your initial

a r r i v a l on scene and t hen c l i c k i n g t h e c u f f s on t o h i s

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w ri s t s ?A

A

A coup le minu te s .Two minutes?Two to t h r e e minute s , pe rhaps .MR LESLIE: Your Honor I know t h i s has been a

l ong trial, but I need a sh o r t break to r ev i ew a v ideoc l i p t h a t m a y o r may not be s u b j e c t o f f u r t h e rc r o s s - ex amin a t io n , but I need to double -check its co n ten t sb e fo re I proceed .


How long do you t h i n k it w i l l take?Not long . No more t h a n t en minute s .

The coun ty l a p t o p t ak e s a little whi le to boot up butthen it sh o u ld be j u s t a few minutes beyond t h a t . It s ash o r t c l i p .

And t he rea son I m ask ing f o r t h i s i s I m awareof t he c o n t e n t s and I have an o p i n i o n

THE COURT:g iv e you t h e t ime

T h a t s f i n e . My q u e s t i o n i s I llI m j u s t wonder ing if we shou ld

reconvene a t 1:30 o r reconvene a t t e n to 12:00 and thenMR LESLIE: I would sugges t we reconvene a t t en

to 12:00 .THE COURT: Y o u r e o n ly going to t ak e a couple

minu tes?MR LESLIE: I m going to r ev i ew it and - -

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THE COURT: All r i g h t . Then w e l l t ake a10-minute r e c e s s .

MR. LESLIE: Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: Hopefu l ly w e l l f i n i s h . But I am

going to have to s t o p prompt ly a t noon. We a re schedu ledfo r the a f t e r n o o n as wel l .

Honor.

MR. LESLIE: I f i g u re d we were .THE COURT: I m s o r r y .MR LESLIE: I f i g u re d we were .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .

Recess t aken .MR. LESLIE: Thank you f o r t h a t b r eak , Your

I t h i n k we can go back on t h e r e c o rd .THE COURT: All r i g h t .Would you p l e a s e come up. Yo u r e still under

oa th .Witness resumed t h e w i tn e s s s t a n d . )

THE COURT: Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE: Yes, Your Honor. J u s t a moment.Your Honor, it s apparen t w e r e no t going to wrap

up t h i s c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n by noon. I wonder if we cou ldgo ahead and r e c e s s u n t i l t h e 1 :3 0 - h o u r , and t hen I canf i n i s h my c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n . And f r ank ly , wi t h thei n t e r v e n i n g l unch hour , I can probab ly make s u r e to make

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the c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n more e f f i c i e n t .THE COURT:MR. YOUNG:

All r i g h t . Any o b j e c t i o n ?I m kind o f open j u s t to power

t h rough , bu t I unders t and .THE COURT:MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

Well , I was t oo .I s t h a t an o p t io n ?I would no t have co n t in u ed , I would

have co n t in u ed to 1:30 b e fo re , bu t I was hoping t h a t basedon r e p r e s e n t a t i o n you might be t h ro u g h by 1:00 by12 :00 .

I w i l l c o n t i n u e , then , u n t i l 1:30 and ap o lo g i zeto t h e o f f i c e r fo r t h e d e l ay , Mr. Young as w el l . But I dowant to make su re t h a t we g iv e a l l p a r t i e s an o p p o r t u n i t yto be heard . So w e l l see you back t h e n .

MR. LESLIE: Thank you, Judge .Lunch r e c e s s t a k e n . )

THE COURT: P lea s e be s e a t e d . I s Mr. L e s l i ehe re?

Are you ready to do your c r o s s ?MR LESLIE: Yes, Your Honor.THE COURT: All r i g h t . We need O f f i c e r Dura lde .

Do you want to come back up. Or Dura lde (p ronounc ing) .THE WITNESS: Dura lde , sirTHE COURT: Dura lde (pronounc ing) I m s o r r y .

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MR YOUNG: Are we back on t h e r e c o rd , YourHonor I guess .

THE COURT:THE CLERK:THE COURT:

Are we on t h e r eco r d ?Yes.Okay. This i s cas e o f S t a t e v .

Zachary B a rk e r Coughl in . And we a re back on the r e c o rd .This i s Case 06-3341. And you a re sworn. And so ify o u l l j u s t r e t a k e t h e s t and .

Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE:

any f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s .Your Honor I d o n t b e l i e v e I have

I have c o n f e r r e d w i thMr. Coughl in , and I c a n t g e t any s t r a i g h t answers out o fhim abou t any a d d i t i o n a l m a t e r i a l s . I have no f u r t h e rq u e s t i o n s a t t h i s t ime .

THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor e a r l i e r d id youi n d i c a t e I d have an o p p o r t u n i t y t o c o n f e r with Mr. L e s l i ea t t h e c o n c l u s i o n o f h i s c ro s s?

THE COURT: Well you d i d .THE DEFENDANT: No I d i d n t , sir.MR LESLIE: I m happy t o t a k e f i v e more minutes ,

if t he Cour t , p l e a s e .

r e q u e s t s .

THE COURT: All r i g h t .MR LESLIE: To a f f o r d Mr. Coughl in t h e t ime he

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THE COURT: I w i l l g iv e you f i v e more minutes andt h a t s it, Mr. Coughl in , because we had an i n t e r v e n i n gp e r i o d of a lmos t t e n minute s b e fo re lunch .

me.THE DEFENDANT: Mr. L e s l i e r e f u s e d to meet wi th

THE COURT: You were ou t in t he h a l l wi th him.THE DEFENDANT: No, I w a s n t .MR. LESLIE: Anyway, Your Honor, if we want to

t ak e t he f i v e minu tes .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .MR. LESLIE: It w i l l p r o b ab ly t ak e 15 minute s to

argue t he p o i n t o r we can t ake the f i v e minute s .THE COURT: Okay. I w i l l g iv e you f i v e minute s ,

bu t t h a t s it.MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

I ll s t e p ou t , Your Honor .Recess t aken . )

All r i g h t . The r e c o rd w i l l r e f l e c tt h a t Mr. Coughl in was g iven t he o p p o r t u n i t y t o c o n su l twith counse l .

THE DEFENDANT: No s i r , Your Honor, I w a s n t .THE COURT: Well , t h a t i s t h e r e c o rd . But I - -

if you want to do it in c o u r t wi th me p r e s e n t , you can do

t h a t .THE DEFENDANT: Do what , Your Honor?

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TH COURT: Consu l t wi t h him. You j u s t wento u t s i d e t o c o n s u l t wi th him.

TH DEFENDANT: No, I went o u t s i d e and Mr. L e s l i ew o u ld n t meet me ou t t h e r e . Then B a i l i f f Sex tono r d e r ed

TH COURT: Mr. L e s l i e - -TH DEFENDANT: - - me to meet him in the ha l lway

where w i t n e s se s cou ld - -TH COURT: Al l r i g h t . I m n o t go ing to p lay any

more games, Mr. Coughl in . You can t a l k to him r i g h t here .I w i l l ask Mr. Young and the o t h e r p e o p l e in t h e cour t roomwho a re no t cour t p e r s o n n e l to s t e p o u t s i d e . I ll g iveyou fo u r minu te s now.

MR YOUNG:

MR LESLIE:

I ll l eave r i g h t now, Your Honor.Recess t aken . )I m going to make a r e c o rd as wel l ,

Your Honor, w i th r e g a rd t o the c l i e n t s competency.TH COURT: Al l r i g h t . We a re ready to proceed .

And t he Cour t , d u r in g t he r e c e s s , d i d p e r s o n a l l y obse rveMr. Coughl in t a l k i n g to h i s co u n s e l , a l t h o u g h I d id notl i s t e n to an y th in g o r hear any th ing , o t h e r t h anwhisper ing , bu t I b e l i e v e t h a t t h e r e has been an a t t empt

to communica te w i th Mr. Coughl in . And we w i l l proceed .MR LESLIE: Your Honor, if I may, it s my b e l i e f

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t h a t Mr. Coughl in i s not l e g a l l y compe ten t to proceed a tt h i s t ime . I m going to make a mot ion f o r t h e C o u r t sd e te r min a t io n o f whether Mr. Coughl in sh o u ld be examinedby a p s y c h i a t r i s t to de te rmine if h e s l e g a l l y competen t .

THE COURT:examined

MR LESLIE:


So a t t h i s p o i n t t h es h o u l d n t say t h a t .

Well I b e l i e v e he was a l r e a d y

I b e l i e v e he wasin t h i s case .

I b e l i e v e he was.And was de te rmined to be competen t .motion w i l l be den ied . I wel l , II w i l l g ive you a chance to a rgue

f u r t h e r . I mean I d o n t know if t h e r e s been a change inc i r c u m s t a n c e s , s i n c e

MR. LESLIE: Well I t h i n k it s j u s t based on t her e c o rd as a whole . It s I t h i n k fo r t he to a l a rg ee x t e n t it s t he o b s e r v a t i o n s t he Cour t has made o f h i sbehav io r and h i s r e a s o n i n g and menta l s t a t e .

Yeah I m j u s t r a i s i n g t h e i s s u e . I have aq u es t i o n in my mind so (no i se in au d io . )

THE COURT: Wel l I have a q u e s t i o n i n my mindbut I m not a p s y c h i a t r i s t , and I v e t r i e d to have himexamined on m u l t i p l e occas ions in d i f f e r e n t cas e s , and ineve ry case t h e y r u l e d he was competen t .

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Okay.I s h o u l d n ' t say they ru l e d . The

d i s t r i c t co u r t ru l e d he was competen t , based upon t hep s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n . I d o n ' t know if it was an a c t u a lp s y c h i a t r i s t .

MR YOUNG: There was two s e p a r a t e ones , YourHonor . There was a psych competency e v a l u a t i o n i n t h i scase and t hen t h e r e was a where he met w i th one. Id o n ' t know if it was a s o c i a l worker o r o th e r w i s e , but onei n d i v i d u a l . And t h e r e was in a s e p a r a t e case a competencye v a l u a t i o n where he met with two se p a ra t e d o c t o r s . In a l le v a l u a t i o n s he was found competen t .

I d o n ' t know if t h e r e ' s been a change betweenthen and now o r if it s j u s t Mr. C o u g h l i n ' s b e h a v io rt h a t ' s p o s in g t h e d i f f i c u l t i e s . But , you know Ic e r t a i n l y , you know it s not my c a l l whether - - what todo. Since it s been r a i s e d , I ll d e f e r to t he Cour t ifyou f e e l it s a p p r o p r i a t e to conduc t a b r i e f h e a r i n gaga in , I ll s t e p o u t . You can ask any q u e s t i o n s , j u s t soyou can de te rmine whethe r it s war ran ted o r n o t .

THE COURT: I 'm w i l l i n g to have him examinedaga in , but I do want to f i n i s h with t h i s w i tn es s . Andh e ' s been he re mu l t i p l e t imes and h e ' s on t he s tand , and Ib e l i e v e a t l e a s t Mr. L e s l i e , you can q u e s t i o n him. So if

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you have any q u e s t i o n s .MR. LESLIE: Yes.

CROSS-EXAMINATION RESUMED)BY MR LESLIE:

Q O f f i c e r , do you have any r e l a t i o n to thed i s p a t c h e r t h a t d i sp a t c h e d you to the scene in t h i s case?

A I d o n t r e c a l l who the d i s p a t c h e r was but mywife i s a d i s p a t c h e r .

Qcase?

A

Q

And to your knowledge was she i n v o l v e d in t h i s

Not to my knowledge.Very w e l l . Did you n o t i c e any i n c o n s i s t e n c i e s

when you a r r i v e d on scene between what t h e d i f f e r e n tw i tn es s e s were t e l l i n g you had happened?

AQ

Not t h a t I r e c a l l .Do you r e c a l l any i n c o n s i s t e n c y between

Mr. G o b l e s and Mr. Zar a t e ; one say ing t h a t Mr. Coughl inhad a l l e g e d l y t ak en th e phone from some t h i r d p a r t y t h a tnobody knows who t h ey a re , and t h en th e o t h e r say ing t h a tMr. Coughl in j u s t p icked the phone up d i r e c t l y from whereit was l y in g ?

A t was my impress ion a t t h e t ime of the case - - Id o n t have any r e c o l l e c t i o n o f t h e t h i r d p a r t y . I wasl a t e r r ead in g Mr. Z a r a t e s s t a t emen t and n o t i c e d t h a t the

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t h i r d p a r t y was l i s t e d in it. But a t t h e t ime o f t hei n c i d e n t I d i d n t have any knowledge o f t h a t .

MR. LESLIE: I d o n t have any f u r t h e r q u es t i o n s .THE COURT: Mr. Young do you have any q u e s t i o n s ?MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

No Your Honor .You re f r e e to go. Thank you.

I do no te we have - - a r e you a w i tn es s , s i r ?AUDIENCE MEMBER: No sir.THE COURT: Okay. Then I - - in l i g h t o f t he

conduct o f t h e s e p r o c e e d in g s and ev e r y th in g t h a t shappened h e re i n , I do b e l i e v e t h e r e s a t l e a s t a q u e s t i o nas to Mr. C o u g h l in s competency go ing all t he way back tothe initial o f f e r to - - o f f e r e d by t h e p r o s e c u t i o n andwhat happened on t he first day when we were he re f o r t heb e t t e r p a r t o f an hour and a h a l f .

So I - - r e l u c t a n t l y I m going to o r d e r a n o t h e rcompetency e v a l u a t i o n . But t h i s t ime I am going to askbo th counse l to prov ide the e v a l u a t o r w i th anydocumenta t ion o r a n y th in g e l s e t h a t you might have wi thr e s p ec t to t h e competency and ask t h e e v a l u a t o r t o rev iewh i s p r i o r compe tency h ea r in g s , e s p e c i a l l y t h e one a tNNAMHS when he went t h e r e . And it s my unde rs t and ingt h e re was someth ing t h a t happened t h e r e as w el l .

MR. YOUNG: Your Honor in my s t a t e m e n t j u s t

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p r ev io u s ly w i t h r e s p ec t t o an i n q u i r y , o b v io u s ly I have noi n s i d e i n fo rm a t i o n as to what Mr. L e s l i e i s see ing , beyondwhat we ve all seen th rough t he cour se of t he d e f e n d a n t sconduct in open c o u r t . It c e r t a i n l y seems to me - - l i k e Isa i d , eve ry e v a l u a t i o n has come back, h e s been foundcompetent , and it j u s t it r a i s e s a s i g n i f i c a n t conce rnto the S t a t e t h a t t h i s i s a it i s j u s t Mr. Coughl inbeing d i f f i c u l t and p u t t i n g in i s su e s t h a t r e a l l y a r e n tt h e re .

And so I m not f a u l t i n g Mr. L e s l i e . I fMr. L e s l i e f e e l s t h a t t h a t s n e c e s s a ry o r a p p r o p r i a t e , I mnot go ing to c h a l l e n g e t h a t , but it j u s t seems t h a tMr. Coughl in , t h rough a l l h i s a c t i o n s , c e r t a i n l y i scompetent , h e s j u s t be ing ve ry o b s t r u c t i o n i s t wi th a l l ofh i s d ea l i n g s w i th c e r t a i n l y myse l f and in some of thee -m a i l s I g e t f rom him.

And a g a in , I c a n t speak f o r Mr. L e s l i e . So I lld e f e r to t he Cour t . But it s j u s t a little ponder ing tome wi th where w e r e a t a t t h i s t ime w i th what thedefendan t i s doing .

THE COURT: I unde r s tand t h a t . y prob lem i st h a t h i s conduc t i s d e f i n i t e l y o b s t r u c t i o n i s t , bu t a t thesame t ime it s not r a t i o n a l in t e rms of w h a t s beeno f f e r e d t o him. And I have had m u l t i p l e cases wi th him

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t h i s i s not t he first. And o v e ra l l , he has not ac t ed in away t h a t i s r a t i o n a l to me. And I v e d e a l t with thousandsof peop le in t h i s cour t room and he i s d e f i n i t e l y - - I mgoing to say unusua l . So and I - - so I am going to askone more t ime t h a t an e v a l u a t i o n be done in l i g h t ofw h a t s happened in t h i s case . And if it comes back h e scompeten t w e l l f i n i s h the trial.

But I w i l l adv i se you s i r , Mr. Coughl in , if itcomes back t h a t you a re competen t t hen I b e l i e v e you a reo b s t r u c t i o n i s t , so we w i l l f i n i s h t h i s in a reasonab let ime frame in shor t o rde r .

Now I d o n t know how many w i t n e s s e s , do you haveany l e f t ?

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

No Your Honor.Mr. L e s l i e , I m no t ask ing you to

i d e n t i f y w i tnes ses o r any th ing r i g h t now bu t i f wecon t inue the trial how long do you a n t i c i p a t e t hedefendant w i l l t ake?

MR LESLIE:h i s b e h a v i o r . I

THE COURT:

It depends a l o t on Mr. Coughl in and

Well h i s behav io r i s going to bevery d i f f e r e n t if we con t inue the trial because I m goingto have ano the r de t e rmina t ion o f competency and I m notgoing to pu t up w i th any a d d i t i o n a l i n t e r r u p t i o n s . We

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w i l l j u s t go s t r a i g h t t h rough .MR LESLIE: I - - you know we need to de te rmine

if h e s going to t e s t i f y .would have any w i tnes ses .

Other t h an t h a t I doubt t h a t II f I had any it would be

s h o r t .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .MR LESLIE: I mean if t h i s were o t h e r than h i s

b e h a v i o ra l i s s u e s , I would t h i n k when we come back Ishou ld t h i n k w e l l be done in an hour o r l e s s .

THE COURT: Ty p i c a l l y , my exper i ence has beent h e se t ake abou t 30 days . But I d o n t know how long itwi l l t ake . So do we have the competency o r d e r here?

A l l r i g h t . I w i l l s i g n an o r d e r t oday and t henw e l l r e sc h e d u l e once we g e t a de te rmina t ion .

MR LESLIE: Well I would ask t h a t a s t a t u sh ea r in g be s e t so we have no d i s p u t e as to h i s appearance .

THE COURT: All r i g h t . Well t h en I m going tose t it ou t . Mr. Young do you have any pre fe r ence fo r at ime f rame?

MR YOUNG: Your Honor t ak ing i n t o l i g h t thet ime it t akes t o ge t t he e v a l u a t i o n , I would ask fo r it assoon as p o s s i b l e , bu t I ll c e r t a i n l y d e f e r to the Courtand co u n s e l .

MR LESLIE: I t h i n k if you pu t it in your o rd e r ,

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Lak e s Cross ing c o u l d t u r n it around in two tot h r e e weeks . I mean t h a t was done a t t he district c o u r tl e v e l .

THE COURT: Well , I do want it to be ap s y c h i a t r i s t , in my mind, no t a s o c i a l worke r . So amgoing to r e q u e s t t h a t it be a p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n .

Yes, s i r ?THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, if I may speak .

had two p re v i o u s p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n s done. And inI v e

n e i t h e r o f t h o se cases , and so f a r no t in t h i s c a se , hasanyone a r t i c u l a t e d a s p e c i f i c bases f o r why t h ey f e e lt h e y r e done. And I b e l i e v e t h e RS r e q u i r e s t h a t tobe - - to be made on t h e r e c o rd . I would l i k e ani n d i c a t i o n o f j u s t e x a c t l y how I v e pu t t he q u e s t i o n in mycompetency i n t o p l a y beyond a broad a l l e g a t i o n of , Well ,it speaks f o r itself j u s t h i s conduc t th roughou tevery th ing .

THE COURT: Well , I w i l l s p e c i f i c a l l y i n d i c a t e ,s i r , t h a t number one

THE DEFENDANT: I m so r ry , Your Honor. I meantwi th r e g a r d to t he p u b l i c d e f en d e r has never a r t i c u l a t e dt h e i r b as e s f o r doing so .

MR. LESLIE: Well , Your Honor if he d i s p u t e sit - -

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THE DEFENDANT: Whether - -MR LESLIE: And i f he d i s p u t e s it, and you t h i n k

h e s competen t to proceed , I was j u s t r a i s i n g t he i s sue .I mean, I d o n t have any th ing to add in t e rms of , youknow, summar iz ing h i s behav io r and h i s menta l s t a t e o t h e rt han what youlve seen in t h e s e v a r i o u s p r o ceed in g s .

THE DEFENDANT: I t h i n k t h a t would be o b s t r u c t i v eto me.

THE COURT: S i r , wai t a second. So you - - it'syour p o s i t i o n y o u l r e competent to f i n i s h t h i s t r i a l ?

THE DEFENDANT: That - - I d i d n t pu t forward ap o s i t i o n i n t h a t r eg a r d . I s a i d l i v e neve r been given as p e c i f i c a r t i c u l a t e d bases fo r why t h e p u b l i c de fende rf e e l s t h a t t h a t s an i s sue . They mere ly r e s t on, oh,wel l , it 's obv ious , it speaks fo r itself.

No. I would l i k e a s p e c i f i c , a r t i c u l a t e d ,s e r i o u s bases fo r why t he p u b l i c d e fe n d e r f e e l s my

competency i s an i s s u e , because to me it seems l i k e t h e s ecompetency e v a l u a t i o n s a re e i t h e r brough t fo r ar e t a l i a t o r y r eason o r used as some s o r t of s h i e l d fo r t hep u b l i c d e fe n d e r a t t imes .

THE COURT: I w i l l tell you, my o n l y concern i s Ido not want to be u n f a i r to you in t h e se proceed ings . I fyou a r e competent , t hen you can go fo rward and you can

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make an in fo rmed d e c i s i o n as to whe the r o r not to t e s t i f y ,t h e n I have no prob lem wi t h f i n i s h i n g it. y concern i st h a t t h e b eh av io r you have d i sp l a y e d i s not r a t i o n a l e int e rms - - I t h i n k I v e s a i d t h i s b e fo re - - I b e l i e v e t h a tyou a re a b r i l l i a n t person , ve ry smar t , very a r t i c u l a t e ,but you a l s o have focussed on min u t i a to t h e po in t whereit i s c o u n t e rp ro d u c t i v e , bo th to your defense and to t heway you l i v e your life.

I mean, I v e seen you many t imes , Mr. Coughl in ,in r e n t a l cases , in c r i mi n a l c a se s , I know your conduct o ra l l e g e d conduc t when you went fo r your menta l h e a l t he v a l u a t i o n , I v e hea rd s i m i l a r - - and ag a in , it s hear say ,but s i m i l a r t h i n g s t h a t o ccu r r ed a t t he PD s o f f i c e ,s i m i l a r t h i n g s have occur red downs ta i r s . As c h i e f Judge,I v e been in fo rmed bo th in w r i t i n g by you and o t h e r s t h a tt h e r e have been d i s p u t e s . And even t oday dur ing one oft hese p r o ceed in g s , you i n d i c a t e d someth ing about the

b a i l i f f p u t t i n g h i s foo t in an i n a p p r o p r i a t e p l ace .So mean t h e r e i s t h i s h o s t i l i t y between you and

some peop le who mean you know harm a t a l l , who a c t u a l l ywant to he lp you. And y e t y o u r e c o n s t a n t l y assuming t h a teveryone i s ou t to ge t you he re And w e re n o t . As af e l low member o f t he b a r . I wish t h i s had neve r happenedto you. I wish we w e r e n t he re today .

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So I want to g iv e you a f a i r shake . And a t t h esame t ime if you f e e l t h a t y o u r e ready to proceed andready to go t h en let s f i n i s h it.

THE DEFENDANT: I asked fo r an a r t i c u l a t e d basesto be pu t i n t o t he r eco r d o r a t l e a s t i n d i c a t e d to me bythe p u b l i c d e f en d e r j u s t i f y i n g any o f t h e s e t h r e ep re v i o u s , I d id no t make a s t a t emen t wi t h r e g a rd t owhether I f e l t t h ey were a p p r o p r i a t e o r not o r as to mycompetency. I j u s t s t a t e d t h a t t he law r e q u i r e s t h a t bymot ion t h ey pu t an a r t i c u l a t e d b a s i s f o r why they a re somoving fo r one . And I t h ink t h a t might me - -

THE COURT: Well I t h i n k t he Cour t can suaspon te do it, t o o .

THE DEFENDANT: And if t h a t s - -THE COURT: And I m you know what w e r e going

to go fo rward . Not o n l y t h a t , if you d o n t wantMr. L e s l i e to r e p r e s e n t you you want to r e p r e s e n ty o u r s e l f , I w i l l a l l o w you to do t h a t , too , f o r the r e s to f t h i s , because you have t h i n g s t h a t you f e e l he d i d n tdo you can do them.

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

Mr. Coughl in .

Your Honor - -Do you want to proceed o r what?

I t h i n k t h e q u e s t i o n i s to

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THE DEFENDANT: Let t he re c o rd r e f l e c t Mr. L e s l i ei s s mi l i n g a t me a t t h i s moment.

THE COURT: I m t a l k i n g to Mr. Coughl in .THE DEFENDANT: I c e r t a i n l y t h i n k t he e x t e n t to

which the Cour t and Mr. L e s l i e have i n t e r j e c t e d mycompetency i n t o t h i s a t t h i s p o i n t makes it pe rhapsr e q u i r e d t o have a competency e v a l u a t i o n done . But yes , Iwould p r e f e r t o r e p r e s e n t myse l f . The C o u r t s a l r e a d yru l ed on t h a t .

THE COURT: Well i y o u r e found to becompetent , I see no r eason you c a n t r e p r e s e n t y o u r s e l f .My r eason f o r proceed ing wi th Mr. L e s l i e in t h i s case i sbecause I d i d no t t h i n k you were competen t to r e p r e s e n ty o u r s e l f .

THE DEFENDANT: And the bases fo r r e j e c t i n g thep l e a agreement , was t h a t based on competency?

MR YOUNG: Your Honor i I may as to any s o r to f p l e a n e g o t i a t i o n s , t h a t i s not a p p r o p r i a t e t o b r i n g inthe r e c o rd .

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

T h a t s f i n e .As f a r as t he competency e v a l u a t i o n ;

you o r d e r ed t h e e v a l u a t i o n , I have no t hea rd Mr. Coughl insay t h a t he f e e l s he i s competent . What my su g g e s t i o nwould be because he has now i n t e r j e c t e d h ims e l f i n t o t h i s

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case , to p r e s e r v e the r ecord , I would sugges t we goforward wi t h t he e v a l u a t i o n as y o u v e a l r e a d y ordered , wewi l l s e t t h i s ou t .

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

Al l r i g h t .And wel l ge t t h a t . As to whether

Mr. Coughl in i s going t o r ep resen t h i mse l f , t h a t i s ane n t i r e l y s e p a r a t e i s s u e . And f r a n k l y , shou ld no t bedec ided - - because t h e r e s an o rd e r fo r competencypending, shou ld no t be a d d re s s e d now. We can addre ss t h a tl a t e r , bu t it s a t o t a l l y s e p a r a t e i s s u e , whether h e scompeten t to proceed .

The f i n a l t h i n g I d l i k e to ask i s j u s t what theC o u r t s i n c l i n a t i o n i s as to Mr. C o u g h l in s cus tody s t a t u spending t h e p sy c h o l o g i c a l e v a l u a t i o n .

THE COURT: My i n c l i n a t i o n i s t h a t h i s cus todys t a t u s r ema in as it i s . I d o n t even know what - - are youOR d , sir?

THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.THE COURT: And cond i t i ons ; Cour t S e r v i c e s

su p e rv i s i o n or?THE DEFENDANT: No. I m not unde r any c o n d i t i o n s

t h a t - - I d o n t have Cour t S e r v i c e s s u p e r v i s i o n , s i r .

Whether o r n o t I have any o t h e r c o n d i t i o n s , I - -THE COURT: Well hang on because t h e c l e r k w i l l

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tell me.THE CLERK: There was c a sh b a i l p o s t e d .THE COURT: You have cash b a i l p o s t ed , sir.THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.THE COURT: So t h e r e are no c o n d i t i o n s . And I m

not going to ch a l l en g e h i s s t a t u s , b u t we w i l l p ick a d a ter i g h t now.

THE CLERK: Are we s e t t i n g it fo r a p r e t r i a l ?MR YOUNG: It s no t a p r e t r i a l .THE COURT: No. No. It s a co n t in u ed trial

d a t e . w el l , a c t u a l l y it s a s t a t u s .Do you want it as a c o n t i n u e d trial d a te o r a

s t a t u s ?MR YOUNG: The S t a t e i n t e n d s - - I m not going to

do a n y t h i n g wi t h r e s p e c t to t he S t a t e s case , becauset h e r e s t h e q u e s t i o n o f competency bu t it s t h e S t a t e si n t e n t i o n to r e s t as soon as t h a t i s s u e i s r e s o lv ed . So Iam okay s e t t i n g it fo r a c o n t i n u e d trial d a t e .

MR LESLIE: T h a t s f i n e , Your Honor. I t h i n kdepend ing on what

THE COURT: Why d o n t we s e t it around 60 days ,because t h a t sh o u ld g ive us p l e n t y o f t ime .

MR LESLIE: T h a t s more t han we need .MR YOUNG: T h a t s way more t han we need.

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THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .THE DEFENDANT: Might it be p e r m i s s i b l e to a l low

Mr. L e s l i e to co n t in u e h i s c ro s s -e x a mi n a t i o n s today ofMr. Zar a t e w h o s been c a l l e d ?

THE COURT: No.MR LESLIE: Not if my c l i e n t i s no t competent .THE COURT: T h e r e s not go ing to be any more

proceed ings t oday u n t i l we de te rmine your competency.THE DEFENDANT: Wel l even if t h a t r e s u l t e d in a

n eg a t iv e d e t e r m i n a t i o n , Mr. L e s l i e has no t seemed to r e l yupon my i npu t in any r e s p e c t .

MR LESLIE: Your Honor you made a r u l i n g . Imean he ll a rgue wi th you a l l day.

THE COURT: Welre done sir.THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.THE COURT: Welre going to s e t a d a t e . Everyone

t h i n k s it s t oo f a r ou t , so

work?

MR LESLIE:MR YOUNG:THE COURT:THE CLERK:

MR LESLIE:

I t h i n k no more t h an 30 days .I ag r ee .Al l r i g h t .Second week of October , would t h a t

Can I check someth ing?

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MR. YOUNG: A c t u a l l y , i s t h a t Octobe r 8 th? I mi n j u r y trial, so no.

THE COURT: I m not he re t h e end o f Septembert he beg inn ing o f Oc tobe r . I m going to be a t t e n d i n g aj u d g e s c o n fe re n c e . So the fo l l o wi n g week.

MR. YOUNG: So if we can do it l a t e r in October .Real ly , Octobe r 8 th and 9 th would be bad f o r me but evenl a t e r t h a t week would be okay.

THETHEMR.MR.

THETHETHETHETHE

CLERK:COURT:YOUNG:LESLIE:COURT:CLERK:COURT:CLERK:COURT:

I can do t h e 1 0 t h o r 1 1 th .10 th o r 11 th work?1 1 t h would be f i n e .

The 11 th i s f i ne .What day i s the 11th?Thursday .W ha t s wrong wi t h ThursdayWait . I m s o r r y . Yo u r e r i g h t .Thursdays Judge Pea r son does CCPs

it s mandatory I do p l e a s , u n l e s s - - t h e n w e d have toc a l l in a n o t h e r Judge , so Wednesday would be b e t t e r .

MR. YOUNG: T h a t s f i n e .MR. LESLIE: I d o n t know if it he lps , bu t I

so

c a n t imagine - - I would t h i n k t h a t we cou ld s t a r t in thea f t e rn o o n , if t h a t works fo r everybody . I mean w e r e downto--

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THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

I ha te to - - I want to f i n i s h t h i s .I j u s t would ha t e t o conf i rm fo r the

lOth if my j u r y trial goes i n t o t h a t day. I s t a r t on t heth

THE COURT: Are you s u re the 11th? How about thefo l lowing week?

MR YOUNG: The fo l lowing week i s f i ne .MR LESLIE: Let me j u s t check . Yes.THE COURT: Monday work?MR LESLIE: Anytime t he week o f t he 15 th would

work.

a t 9 :00 .THE COURT:

And we w i l lL e t s do it s t a r t i n g in t he morning

and I promise you t h i s , t he r ew i l l no t be any r e c e s s e s o r any o f t h a t kind o f s t u f f .We r e j u s t go ing to go s t r a i g h t t h rough .

MR YOUNG: October 15 th a t 9:00?THE COURT: Yes.MR YOUNG: Thank you.MR LESLIE: And, Your Honor, i s your c l e r k going

to prov ide a w r i t t e n n o t i f i c a t i o n o f t h a t ? They somet imesdo t h a t in c o u r t fo r pre l im s and t h i n g s l i k e t h a t . Id o n t want to have to come back and l i t i g a t e wi thMr. Coughl in about whe ther he r ece ived n o t i c e when h e ss i t t i n g r i g h t h e r e l i s t e n i n g to t h i s .

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THE COURT: Well w e l l g ive him a s l i p .MR LESLIE: Thank you THE COURT: What we normal ly do - - Mr. Coughl in ,

fo r t he r e c o rd , what we norma l ly do i s p r o v i d e t h ede fendan t s wi th a s l i p t h a t has t h e title on it t he da teand t ime . And I m going to ask t h e c l e r k to r e a d t he s l i pt h a t s go ing to be handed to you so t h a t t h e r e s noque s t ion as to what was g iven to you.

THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir Your Honor. May Iask-

THE COURT: Wait a second, sir.THE CLERK: Date to appear i s Octobe r 15 th , 2012

a t 9:00 a .m. f o r s a i d trial.THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . So t h a t s - - fo r t he

reco rd , t he bailiff has handed t h a t s l i p to Mr. Coughl inwhich i n d i c a t e s t he da t e and t ime f o r t h e con t inued trial.

Mr. Coughl in - - what does he want to say?

THE DEFENDANT: The wi tne s s e s t h a t weresubpoenaed Dawson and Templeton t hey d id no t show up toe i t h e r t he s uppre s s ion h e a r i n g o r t h e trial here .b e l i e v e it was because a t t he J u l y 1 6 t h da te , t hea t t o r n e y

I

THE COURT: Si r , you can d i s c u s s t h a t wi th youra t t o r n e y .

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MR LESLIE: Thank you Your Honor .(Record ing t u r n ed o f f a t 2:12 p .m. )

(Record ing t u r n ed back on. )MR LESLIE: - - co o p e r a t e wi t h t h e i n t e rv i e w s

t hey r e q u i r e ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?THE COURT: Well I m going to do an o rd e r t h a t

he has to have t h e e v a l u a t i o n . Do you have a b lank o rde r?Can one of t h e b a i l i f f s b r i n g me a copy o f t h e o rd e r , acopy of our o r d e r fo r e v a l u a t i o n ?

THE BAILIFF: Yes Your Honor.THE COURT: I ll tell you e x a c t l y what it says .

And t hen , bu t - -MR YOUNG: And t h a t was the r eason I asked abou t

cus tody s t a t u s . I j u s t want to make s u r e if it s o rd e re dby the Cour t t h a t it g e t s done b e f o r e t h i s new da te .

THE COURT: Wel l I w i l l o r d e r t h a t r i g h t now.j u s t want to r ev iew what our form o rd e r says , and t hen Imay even fill it o u t r i g h t he re r i g h t now and g iveMr. Coughl in a copy.

MR LESLIE: That would be a p p r o p r i a t e .THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Yes sir.THE DEFENDANT: J u s t wi th r e s p e c t t o the e x t e n t

to which you broached the s u b j e c t e a r l i e r abou t what you

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had hea rd abou t Lak e ' s Cross ing ; p r ev io u s d i f f i c u l t i e swi th Lak e ' s C ro s s i n g r e l a t e d j u s t to t h a t i s s u e o f whatdoes t h i s r e q u i r e o f the de fendan t , i s it a b l a n k check?I s Mr. Dogan a l lowed to r e a d what med ica t i o n s I t ake i n t ot he open r e c o rd and announce it in open c o u r t as he did?

THE COURT: I am not - - I 'm j u s t say ing t h a tt h e r e were problems.

THE DEFENDANT: ButTHE COURT: Whether t h ey were even - - maybe the

problem was t h a t Lak e ' s Cross ing d id something to you.But I am go ing to o r d e r and s i g n t h i s r i g h t now.

t says you w i l l fill in t h e case number.Do you have a D.A. number?MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

D.A. number i s 432068.And t h i s i s Case No. R R 2011-063341.

And upon mot ion o f counse l fo r t h e d e fe n d a n t h e re i n , andgood cause ap p ea r in g t h e r e f o r , it i s he reby o r d e r ed t h a tt he de fendan t be examined by a p s y c h i a t r i s t . I 'm notgoing to have a p s y c h i a tr i c s o c i a l worker o r o t h e r pe rsonwho i s s p e c i a l l y q u a l i f ie d by t h e D i v i s i o n __ I 'm evengoing to d e l e t e t h a t , because fo r t h e purpose o fde te rmin ing if t h e de fendan t i s not o f s u f f i c i e n t

m e n t a l i t y t o be a b l e to unders tand t h e n a t u r e o f thec r i mi n a l charges a g a i n s t him, and two, if because o f

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menta l i n s u f f i c i e n c y , t he defendan t i s no t a b le t o a id anda s s i s t counse l in t he defense i n t e r p o s e d upon t he trial o ra g a i n s t a pronouncement o f judgment t h e r e f o r . t I sf u r t h e r orde re d t h a t t he defendan t i s to appea r __ nowt h i s i s t he problem.e v a l u a t i o n h e a r i n g .

This i s on ly fo r the competencySo I 'm go ing t o pu t , I t i s f u r t h e r

o r d e r e d t h a t t he defendan t i s to a p p e a r __ no we d o n ' thave t he t ime o r a n y t h i n g , so I can j u s t say , f o r s a i de v a l u a t i o n a t Nevada Mental He a l th , o r o ~ d id you

9 5 12 0204 063341 2025 both portions of stubbs transcript ocr a9 no numbers

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