‘ENPATHUKALUDE NIRAVIL’ - JOSEPH MAR THOMA Compiled by Lal Varghese, Esq., MTC Dallas, Farmers Branch

Q: Being born at famous Palakunnathu family in Maramon, which was the family of our Church fathers Mathews Mar Athanasius, Thomas Mar Athanasius, Titus I, and Titus II. Now looking back to Thirumeni’s childhood what are your reflections about those days?

A: Spirituality that was prevailing in the background of reformation was evident in my childhood. I am very much

fond of my childhood days especially the Maramon village where I was born and brought up and the Maramon Church which played a pivotal roles in my spiritual life by attending the Sunday School, Yuvajana Sakyam and several other Christian organizations.

Q: Maramon, river Pampa, Aranmula Vallam Kali and such other things were always an inspiration for Thirumeni to

be with the people. Does Thirumeni still feel that way that Thirumeni is the Bishop of the people?

A: Yes, I am the Bishop of the Mar Thoma Church as well as the Bishop of the people. My childhood environment helped me to have broader perspective about other religion and people. That created in me a thought of ecumenism not only among Christians but with other religions and people also. I see people as a whole and anyone can approach me at any time in their need and I will be with them irrespective of their religion or affiliation.

Q: Thirumeni’s family namely Palakunnathu family played a major role in the Maramon convention since its inception in 1882. Does Thirumeni still cherish the memories of

thatching the convention pandal, making all arrangements including famous speakers like Stanley Johnson staying at Palakunnathu family?

A: Maramon convention was originated as a convention of the Maramon parish. Later, even though MTEA took charge of it, all arrangements for the convention were made locally. Irrespective of religion people opened their doors to others who attend convention from distant places. I know several Hindu families in Maramon helped to provide the coconut leaves and poles for the pandal and also helped to thatch the pandal in my childhood days.

Q: Thirumeni’s pet name was ‘Baby’ and official name was ‘P. T. Joseph’ and later became ‘Joseph Mar Iraneus’ when consecrated as a Bishop, and now Joseph Mar Thoma after being installed as metropolitan of the Mar Thoma Church.

How do you describe the challenges faced in the transition from ‘Baby’ to ‘Joseph Mar Thoma’?

A: It was always a challenge to move from a secular background to a non-secular environment. The primary focus was always the meeting the challenges of the Church and its people. But I always maintained a cordial relationship

with all religions and people where ever I served.

Q: Palakunnathu family guided the destiny of the reformed wing of the Malankara Syrian Church and provided four Metropolitans to the Mar Thoma Church and

now Joseph Mar Thoma. Does Thirumeni think that you were able to carry he reforms envisioned by the Church fathers in its real spirit?

A: Many fathers from my family committed their life to the Church and sacrificed themselves for the faith for which they stood. We have the open Bible with us now and realities are to be faced in making reforms at any time in the Church.

Q: What is Thirumeni’s opinion about the Liturgy of the Church? Does need any reform since the Mar Thoma Church has become a global Church?

A: Worship should be made in the language of the people. It was not the case before reformation. Abraham Malpan in 1835 for the first time read Promeon and Sedra in Malayalam by looking at the Suriyani Thaksa. When you worship in spirit by understanding the meaning of the liturgy you will never say

that there is need for change in our liturgy.

Q: What is Thirumeni’s opinion about ordaining women in other Christian denominations? Does Eastern Church accept the ordination of women?

A: Women should be given equal rights in the administration of the parishes, diocese and Sabha. There are several Churches, which do not have voting rights for women still. Eastern ecclesiastical spirituality does not recognize the ordination of women.

Q: Thirumeni studied at Alwaye U. C. College, UTC Bangalore, and Episcopal Seminary in Alexandria, Virginia, Oxford back in the fifties and sixties. What prompted

Thirumeni to become an ordained priest of the Mar Thoma Church during the young age?

A: Like I mentioned earlier, my family, my parish and the environment I grew up influenced me a lot. It was a not lucrative job to become an ordained priest of Mar Thoma Church during that

time. The Church had nothing when we lost in the ‘Vattipana’ Case. A priest has to struggle very hard to meet both ends and also to take care of the needs of the parish and its people. It was a really a challenge for me to become an ordained priest of the Mar Thoma Church and with God’s grace I took up that challenge and now I am 80 years old and 54 years in the service of the Church and 35 years as a Bishop.

Q: Thirumeni had Masters degree in ‘Reformation Theology’ from Episcopal Seminary in Virginia, USA and later joined Oxford in 1966 and took ‘Doctor of Divinity’ specializing in ‘Patristic Theology’.

A. My education in USA and England provided me with wider view about ecumenism and provided me with a modern vision about the Church. The Serampore University awarded me honorary doctorate also. It all created a new outlook about religion, church and its people.

Q: Thirumeni was ordained as a ‘Kasessa’ in 1957 and served in several parishes both inside and outside Kerala including serving as the ‘traveling secretary’ of the MTEA. Was it different from present and how you describe your challenges faced during that time?

There was no parsonage for priests to live during that time. There is a room attached to the Madbaha of the parish

priests lived in the single room. There were no bathrooms or toilet or kitchen. There was no electricity or buses to travel form one place to another place. But, God helped me to over come all challenges and kept in the faith journey of the Church. I kept very good relationship with Hindus and Muslims where ever I served as a parish priest. Even Muslims donated generously to build the Mar Thoma Church in Calicut, when I was Vicar over there during 1963 – 1969.

Q: Thirumeni was ordained as a ‘Ramban’ along with late Easow Thirumeni in 1975 at Trichur, and as a Bishop of the Mar Thoma Church in the same year

in Thiruvalla. Thirumeni served in various dioceses of the Church. Now looking back after 35 years as a Bishop of the Church how do you think about Church as a witnessing community?

A: The communities where we live always change and Church’s mission also should be tuned in accordance with the changes in the community. Mar Thoma Church is a global church and we have to be witnesses of our Lord Jesus wherever we are planted. We should have contextual mission for which we need to review and change our attitude towards mission on a regular basis.

Q: ‘Iraneus’ the name was chose from Bishop Iraneus who lived in the second century who wrote treatise against the ‘Gnostics’. Does Thirumeni feel that our Church and its people have false teachings or people follow false teachings?

A: Our Church like all other traditional churches faces the challenge of the ‘prosperity theology’. The promise of the gospel is not of prosperity, but it is of sacrifice and commitment to Lord. Another challenge we as a church is facing now is the growth of para organizations which are suing established churches as a ‘milking cow.’ Our Church does not have any false teaching and we believe in the Bible and Trinity.

A: When Sadam Hussain’s army invaded Kuwait, thousands of people lost jobs and were to return to Kerala. Thirumeni was in charge of the Kuwait region and Thirumeni helped thousands of returning Malayalees irrespective of their religion or race to settle down in Kerala. At that time

everyone praised Untied States for coming to the rescue of Kuwait. What is Thirumeni’s opinion about the involvement of United States in Iraq and Afghanistan?

A: During Kuwait’s invasion, United States helped Kuwait to regain its freedom and now that country is one of the best countries in the world providing jobs thousands of people from all over the world. We have a Mar Thoma Church in

Kuwait with more than 3000 families. But the United States involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan is different from that of the rescue of Kuwait. In Iraq, United States was using them to fight Iran, and when they turned against America during the regime of Saddam Husain, they try to take control of it. Same thing in Afghanistan, in order to fight Russia in the cold ware days, America was providing money and weapon to Taliban, now when they turned against America, they are trying to take control of the situation. History reveals that even Russians failed in Afghanistan, and it will be a costly effort for America too.

Q: Theremin’s involvement in various ecumenical bodies like KCC, NCCI, CASA, ECLOFF, WCC, CCA, CCI are very much deeply involved. Why such ecumenical involvement is not taking place at the grass root levels of the Church especially parish levels?

A. There are several sociological and cultural reasons for it, but where it is possible we are co-operating with other Churches in the ecumenical realm. We have full communion with C. S. I. and C. N. I. Churches. We as a Church need to be involved in cordial relations with other religions also and that should be the mission of the Church also.

Q. Thirumeni is often known as a ‘builder of the church’. Which according to Thirumeni is more important ‘ building the church’ or on the other hand ‘building the people’?

A. Both are important

‘building the church’ and ‘building the people’ since both are

interrelated. Without the other each one cannot exist. There was a need to build the church and at the same time we built the people also by

establishing mission fields in various places in India. Our people are all over the world now and the Church is providing all pastoral case people needed wherever they are.

Q. Thirumeni was closely associated with late Yuhannon Mar Thoma, late Alexander Mar Thoma, late Thomas Thirumeni, late Easow Thirumeni and Philipose Mar

Chrysostom, Valiya Metropolitan. How do you feel about your association with all of them?

A. They are all with different outlook and with different emphasis, but they never contradicted each other. All of them worked hard for the Church and its laity and served God.

Q. Thirumeni interacted with a large number of world leaders, Indian political leaders and Kerala political leaders. Does such interaction helped Church in any way?

A. Yes, when I interacted with such leaders, I interact as the Bishop of the Church and Church received countless benefits from such interactions. We have parishes now in Gulf regions where it was not allowed. Mar Thoma Church is known all over the world due to such interactions not only by myself, but

also by our other Bishops. Church is not an inclusive community and we should not exclude anyone from our sphere of activities as a Church.

Q. Thirumeni was installed as metropolitan of the Church in October 2007 and three years have passed now. What is your opinion about the participation of the laity in the administration of the Church especially the Diaspora laity of the Church?

A. Laity is very important part of the Church and without faithful and committed laity no church can exist. We have a value-based democracy and a well-defined constitution and all are subject to the constitution including the Bishops and Metropolitan.

Q. Thirumeni and our Bishops are criticized for everything and anything nowadays by a group of people. How do you take such criticisms and what is your attitude to such people.

A. Criticism was there from the very beginning and Jesus Christ was criticized by more people than any one else. I take each criticism in a positive way and if anything is good in it I accept the same, the rest I just ignore. I do not have any enemies at all, and I always pray for such people so that God may

guide them in the right way.

Q. What is Thirumeni’s opinion about technology?

Q. It is a blessing by God, but it should be used for the blessing of all. It should not be distorted by human for

selfish gain or ill motives. Church should adapt technology in all field possible so that the mission entrusted to us by God can be spread faster than before.

Q. What is the future of the Church especially the Church in North America?

A. Church is the body of Christ. God will guide the Church, its leaders and its people in all generations. Leadership should be passed on to second generation and third generation and God will guide them in the faith journey of the church.

Editors Note : The above interview was conducted in Dallas with Joseph Mar Thoma by Lal Varghese, Esq., Associated Editor of the Mar Thoma Messenger while Metropolitan Thirumeni celebrated 80th birth day and 35 years as a Bishop of the Mar Thoma Church.