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Episode227:UsingtheMetabolismResetDietto

SupportLiverHealth


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyAlituraNaturalsskincare.Youguyslovedthefounder,Andy,whenhecameonthispodcasttotalkabouthisownskinhealingjourneyafteratragicaccidentthatcausedmassivescarringonhisface.Fromthisexperience,hedevelopedsomeofthemostpotentandeffectivenaturalskincareoptionsfromserumstomasksandalotofproductsinbetween.Theresultsarevisibleinhisperfectlyclearskinthatisfreeofscars!Ilovethemaskanduseitacoupletimesaweek,andoftenusethegoldserumatnighttonourishmyskinwhileIsleep.Alloftheirproductshavesupercleaningredientsandtheyreallywork!Andyisabsolutelydedicatedtocreatingthehighestqualityproductspossibleanditshows.Checkthemoutatalituranaturals.com/wellnessmamaandusethediscountcode"wellness"toget20%off.

ThisepisodeissponsoredbyFourSigmatic,makerofsomeofmyfavoritecoffees,teasanddrinkmixes.TheyareinfusedwithsuperfoodmushroomslikeReishi,Cordyceps,Chaga,TurkeyTailandLion’sMane.Manyoftheirformulationsalsoincludeadaptogens,whichareherbsthathelpourbodiesadapttostress.Andotherbeneficialingredients,alltuckedintoconvenientpacketsthatyoucanaddtohotorcoldwaterforaquickdrink.MypersonalfavoriteistheirmushroomcoffeebecauseIalreadydrinkcoffeeandaddingsuperfoodmushroomisaneasywaytoupgrademymorningcup.IalsokeeppacketsinmypurseforwhenIamoutandaboutortraveling.Ifyouaren’tfamiliarwiththemanybenefitsofthesemushrooms,theycontainthingslikepolyphenols,polysaccharides,beta-glucans,andantioxidantsthatsupporttheimmunesystem.Andtheyaren’tjustgreatforus…theyactuallyimprovetheenvironmentinseveralwaystoo!Theyhelpwithsoilhealththroughaprocesscalledbioremediation,orthebreakdownofdowntoxiccompoundsthathaveinfiltratedwaterorsoil.Fungihavebeenshowntobreakdownandhelpeliminateavarietyofhazardouschemicals.They’retrulysomethingyoucanfeelgreataboutconsuming,bothforyourownhealthandfortheenvironment!WellnessMamalistenersgetaspecialdiscount!Gotofoursigmatic.com/wellnessmamaandusethecode“WELLNESSMAMA”tosave15%.

Katie:Helloandwelcometothe"WellnessMamaPodcast."I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.com.AndI'mherewithsomeonewhoIhighlyrespectandcan'twaittosharewithyou.Dr.AlanChristiansonisanaturopathicendocrinologistwhofocusesonthyroidfunction,adrenalhealth,andmetabolism.He'sbeenactivelypracticinginScottsdale,Arizonasince1996andisthefoundingphysicianbehindIntegrativeHealthwhichisaclinicthere.He'salsoa"NewYorkTimes"best-sellingauthorwhosebooksincludetherecent"MetabolismResetDiet,""TheAdrenalResetDiet,"and"TheCompleteIdiot'sGuidetoThyroidDisease."

IamapersonallyapatientofDr.CandIconsiderhimoneofthesmartestpeopleIknow.He'salsooneofthemostinterestingpeopleIknow,andheisacompetitivemountainunicyclist.Howmanypeopledoyouknowwhocansaythat?So,withoutfurtherado,welcome,Dr.Candthanksforbeinghere.

Dr.Christianson:Hey,Katie.Thankyousomuch.Iappreciatethat.I'mgladtobeabletospendsometimewithyouhere.


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Katie:Oh,it'salwaysapleasure.AndI'mespeciallyexcitedtochataboutyourmostrecentworkbecauseIthinklikeeverythingthatyou'vewritten,it'sreallygoingtohelpalotofpeople.AndI'dlovetostartthere.Whatinspiredyoutowritethismostrecentbook,"TheMetabolismResetDiet?"

Dr.Christianson:Youknow,yeah,itwasjust,Iguess,anaturalextensionofmyownhealthjourneyfromhowweightaffectedmeearlyinlife,afewstageslaterinlifeaswell.Andthenalsojustthebigstrugglesofmypatientsandreaders.It'salwaysbeenaboutmanagingweightandmanagingenergy,andIwantedjusttocometosomedeeperunderstandingsabouthowthosethingstiedtogether.

Katie:Gotcha.Andso,onthatnote,whowouldyousaythisdiet...Actually,beforewegettothat,I'dlovetohear...youmentionedyourownstrugglesofweightasachild,andIknowthisisanamazingstory.Ifyoudon'tmind,canyoutouchonyourownstoryalittlebit?

Dr.Christianson:Yeah,forsure.Ihadayoung,youngmotherwho...Iwasadopted.Shedidnotchoosetoraisemebutshehadsomehealthchallenges,andIwasbornwithcerebralpalsy.AndIhadsomemovementcomplicationsfromthatandboneissues,butalsoIhadseizuresfromit.Andsomehow,themixture,IthinkIjustreallycouldn'tdophysicalthings.Ijustdidn'thavethatasanoutlet.IwasdriventowardsitbutIwouldgetinjuredwhenItriedtodothings.Andsomewherealongthewayaroundadolescencejustbeforethat,foodbecameanoutlet,youknow.

Ihaven'ttalkedaboutthisforalotbutIhaveonevividmemoryofbeingataresort,myparentswerepartownersof,andIhadthisgreat,bigplacetoplayaroundin.TheywerealwaysworkinghardbutIwaslargelyunsupervisedandwehadakitchen.Wehadpeoplethatcookedfortheguests.AndIrememberwalkingaroundfiguringoutthatIcouldmakemyselfhighbyeatingenoughchocolatechipcookies.

Thistotalepiphany,like,atfourorfive,I'mlike,"Wow,thisisprettyunusual."And,youknow,inretrospect,therewasobviouslysomethingthatwasoff.Thereweresomepsychologicalstress,somemetabolicabnormalitythatIwasfeedinginsomeway,andIbecamereallyheavyfromthat.AndIcametorealizehowtheextrapoundsreallyjusthurtmyhealthdirectlyintermsofworseningchronicpainandmovementpatternsandworseningotherchronicinflammatorysymptomsandthenalsoseeinghowitaffectedmesociallyandhowpeersreactedtowardsme.Anditwasabigthing.

Reallyjustkudostoyourselfandalltheotherpeoplewhohavewrittengreathealthbooksandhowmuchthosecanbenefitpeople,andthatwaswhatjustchangedmylifewasstumblingacrosssomehealthbooks,youknow,backinthe'70s.Therewerefewertitlesandfeweravailabilityofthem,butwhatIfoundmadearadicaldifference.Anditjustputmeonanarctowanttokeepunderstandingthesethingsbetterand,youknow,helpothersinthatjourneyalongtheway.

Katie:Wow.Yeah,absolutely.Andyouhave,Ifeellike,auniqueperspectivewithnowover20yearsofclinicalexperiencewithpeoplewithacrosstheboardeverythingfromthyroidproblemstojustendocrinesystem


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problemsingeneral,adrenalproblems.So,Iwouldlovetohearyourtakeonwhyyoufelttherewassuchaneedforthisparticularbookrightnow,andwhocanbenefitfromit?

Dr.Christianson:Yeah.So,Ithinkthatwe'vegonethroughalotofcyclesofpopulardiets,youknow,lowfatinthe'80sandallsortsofthingssincethen,butmostpeople,Ithink,understandthatiftheyrestricttheirdietenough,iftheycutoutalotoffoodcategories,oriftheyjustradicallydroptheirtotalfoodintakethat,sure,theycanelicitsomechangeonthescale.Butitdoesn'tlast,andeventhen,theydon'tfeelwell.

Youknow,Ithinkabout,like,havingthreedials.You'vegot,like,yourweight,yourappetite,andyourenergy.Andit'salmostaparadoxbecausewhenyougetacoupleofthemlinedup,oneoftheothersgetsthrownoff.So,yeah,ifyoustarveyourselforrestrictcategoriesalot,youmayaffectsomechangeinweightbutyou'lltankyourenergyandreallycauseappetitetorebound.Andthen,ontheotherhand,peoplehaveoftenseenthatiftheytryto,youknow,eatgoodfoods,eatclean,eatorganic,andeatintuitively,theymightdoareallygoodjobwiththeirhealthandtheirenergy,andbeabletobeverysatisfiedwiththeirappetite.Butthey'lloftennotseetheirweightimprove,andtheymayevenseethatmoveinthewrongway.

So,mythoughtwas,notjustwhatisalongerlistoffoodstoavoidbut,youknow,whydoesthishappen.AndI'vecometounderstandthat,youknow,gettinghowthebodyregulatesitself,whenitworkswell,thosethreedialsofappetite,energy,andweight,theyshouldsyncupeffortlessly.Youknow,youshouldhaveittowhereyoueattoyourhungerlevels.Yourenergyissteady.You'vegotahealthyweightfromthat.So,thequestionis,whydoesthatgowrongandwhatisitwecandotoreallygetthatbackagain?

Katie:Yeah.Absolutely.Ithinksomanypeople,thatiswhattheystrugglewithtruly.AndIthinkyou'reright.Ithinkinsociety,weseethiscycleofpotentiallydangerousdietsthatpeopledoforashortamountoftime,butprobablylong-termactuallycreatesmoredysfunctionthansolvingthatproblem.IknowthatI'veread,andyoucouldprobablyspeaktothisbetterthanIcould,butIreadabouthowthingslikethatcycleofbingedietingorallthesedifferentwordsthattheycallitcanactuallyharmthemetabolismsomuchovertime,becauseyou'retakingintoomanycaloriesandtoofew,andyourbodydoesn'tknowhowtorespondtothat.

So,Ithinkyou'resorightonthat.Ithinkwe'veseenthiskindofdangerouscycleinsociety,especiallyinthelastdecadeorsoofthesekindoftrendydietsthatpeopletendtosticktoforalittlewhileandthenrebound.AndatleastfromwhatI'veread,thatcycleofdieting,especiallyextremedietingcanactuallyhavereallydangeroussideeffectsforthebodyinthelong-term,andespeciallyifyou'resomeonelike,forinstance,likemewiththyroidissues,that'ssomethingyoureallydon'twannanecessarilydoatleastfromwhatI'veread.ButIwouldlovetogetyourinsightonthatbecauselikeIsaid,Iknowthere'sbeenalotofdifferenttrendydietsoverthelastfewyearsandpeopletendtojumponthelatestbandwagon.

Dr.Christianson:Youknow,awesomepointandIcouldnotagreemore,especiallyaboutthyroidfunction.So,wethinkaboutmetabolism.AndIthinkaboutacoupleofdifferentwaysofconsideringthat,oneofwhichisjustisitfastorslowandtheotherishowflexibleitis.I'llcomebacktothat.Butintermsofjusthowmuchourbodyburnsfuelatrest,youknow,howwellwedothat,oneofthebiggestvariablesisthyroidfunction.Andwhenweplummetourfoodintake,ourbodyhasadaptivemechanismsthatkickinthatkeepusfromjust


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eatinguptoomuchofourownbodymass.Andoneofthebiggestonesinvolveschanginghowthyroidhormonesgetused.

So,it'scompletelyexpectedthatwhensomeonedoeslowertheirfoodintakebymorethanabout25%formorethanabout6weeks,thattheymoveintoaresponsivehypothyroidstate,andthat'sjusttoshutdownthemetabolism.Now,ifyouweretoimaginethebodyasthinkingorhavingjustlikeadeliberatewisdomratherthanlikeanintentionalwisdom,thatwouldmakesenseinthecontextoffamine.Youwantyourbodytoslowdownandspearandholdontowhatyoucould.So,that'soneconsiderationofthat.And,yeah,extremedietingcanbeabigtrigger.

Withflexiblemetabolism,it'salittlebitdifferentandthat'swhatIwasalludingtoabouttheideaoftheenergyandtheappetiteandtheweight.So,whenyou'vegotaflexiblemetabolism,evenifyourfoodintakegoesupanddownwithinsomeparameters,ifyourfoodintakegoesdownabit,youstillcanmaintaingoodenergy.Andifitgoesupbysmallamounts,weightdoesn'thavetochange.Andeveryonedoesthattosomedegree.Youknow,weneverhavepreciselytheamountoffoodweneedonagivenday.

So,whenourbodyworkswell,wetakewhateverextrathereisandstorethatharmlesslyinaformoffuelthatwecanaccessquicklyintheliver.Andifthere'salittlelessthanweneed,it'stheopposite.Westillfeelwellanddon'thavetogointocravings.Wecanstillbeenergizedbutwedrawfromthatstoredenergyfromtheliverandthenkeepthingsgoingreallywell.There'sanemergingconceptthat'sbeencalledleakyliver.That'sahugepartofjustwhypeoplecangainorlosemetabolicflexibility.

Katie:Yeah.That'sasuperinterestingconcept.AndIguesstheobviousquestionthatI'mwonderingis,isthisdamagepermanent?Andifnot,whatcansomeonedo?Howdowestartrehabilitatingthebodyfrombeinginthattypeofastate?

Dr.Christianson:Well,that'stheexcitingpartisthatsomepartsofthebodyaremoreresilientthanothers,morereparativethanothers.Andyoucouldprobablyjustquantifythatintermsofrateofcellturnover,andnormalcellturnoverinthepopulation.So,thinkabout,like,braincellsforexampletowherewenowknowthatasadults,wedostillhavebraincellturnover.Itisquiteslow.Andsoifthere'salotofdamageorloss,wemaynothaveturnoverthat'sfastenoughtomakeupforsignificantloss.Andontheotherend,wethinkaboutthingslikethegutliningwhereturnovercanbeinamatterofminutes.Andtheliverisquiteawaysoveronthatsideoffastcellturnover.

Peoplecandonateabigchunkoftheirlivertoacompatiblelovedoneforexample,andtheirscanreadilygrowbackagain.Theysaywecanlosemorethan80%ofitanditcanfunctiontoanormalcapacityinamatterofjustafewmonths.So,whenwe'retalkingaboutchangesintheliver,thenalotofchangeispossible.Andeveniftherehasbeenalotofalterationtometabolism,thatcancomebackagain.Andthat'sareallyexcitingparttosee.


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Katie:Thatisexciting.AndI'mcuriousalso,whataresomeoftheriskfactorsthatsomeonemighthavethatcouldputthemmoreatriskforaliver-basedissuelikethis?I'mcurious,especiallyfromapersonalperspective,ifthere'salinkwiththyroidissues,forinstance,andhavingmoreofatendencytowardstheseliverissues.

Dr.Christianson:Well,thereisanoverlap.Andwithliverissues,wecanthinkaboutthisalongacontinuum.AndwhatI'mdescribingasleakyliverisoneoftheearlierstagesofthatcontinuum.Ifitadvances,thenwethinkaboutfattyliversyndromeorovertcirrhosiswherethere'sjustsignificantdamagetotheliver.Andthere'salotofdataaroundfattyliverespecially.Andit'sbeenshownthatbothwaysthatpeoplethathavethyroiddiseasearemoreatriskforfattyliverandviceversa.Ifwepollpopulationsthathavefattyliver,theyhavehigherratesofthyroiddisease.

Otheroverlapsweseewouldincludejustbloodsugarabnormalities.Simpletendenciestowardshypoglycemiaeven,butthencertainly,anywhereinthetendencyofthespectrumofdiabetes.Lateststatsonthatarethatthemajorityofadultsareeitherdiabeticoratriskfordiabetes.It'sactually51%orovernow.Andfattyliveritself,I'veseendataarguingthat'smorethan40%ofadultsthathaveveryclearlydiagnosedfullversionsofit.

Otherthingsthatcreatehigherriskforliverissues,sadly,thisisonemorecaseinwherefemalegenderisarisk.Andwethinkalotofthatcomesdowntothecomplexworkthatittakestometabolizeandprocessthefluctuatinglevelsofestrogenandprogesterone.So,yeah,that'sabigfactor.Andthenageisjustrelevant.Youknow,eachdecade,there'shigherratesofmanifestationsofliverdiseaseaswell.Youknow,medicationusage,exposuretoenvironmentaltoxicants.Thoseareallfactorsaswell.

Katie:Gotit.Onthenoteofthyroidbeforewemoveon,Iknowaquestionthatyouandhavespokenabout,andIwannamakesureIgetyouontherecordtoanswerbecauseIgetitsooften,isaboutthyroidissuesandiodine.BecauseevenwhenIfirststartedresearchingthyroidissuesandIwasprettysuresomethingwasgoingonwithmine,thatwasverycommonadviceonlineandevenfromexpertswastotakeiodine.AndIknowthatyou'vedoneextensiveresearchonthisandhaveclinicalexperience.So,canyoujustexplainthatfortherecordsothatIcanreferpeopleback?

Dr.Christianson:Forsure.Youknow,thisissuchanimportanttopic.So,ifthyroiddiseaseisrampantandwethinkaboutjustthedriversofthat,anditwouldseemlikejusttheperfectscenarioifthiscommondiseasethathasbigeffectsforalotofpeoplecouldbedrivenbyjustthelackofasimplenutrient.Andevenmorethanthat,itcanbeinotherpartsoftheworld.InAmerica,thyroiddiseaseisprimarilydrivenbyHashimoto'sthyroiditis,whichisautoimmune.WealsothinkaboutGraves'asbeingoneofthemorecommoncausesofcausingthyroiddiseasewhichisalsoautoimmuneinnature.

Iodinedeficiencyisaculpritbutnotsomuchinpartsoftheworldthathaveiodinefortification.So,weseethatintheU.S.,inEurope,inJapan,wherethere'siodinesufficiencythatit'sjustreallynotatrigger.Andit'ssuchaparadoxbecausethethyroidneedsiodine,andifyouhavetoolittle,thatcanslowitdown.IfinallythinkIgotagoodintuitiveanalogyforhowiodineworkswiththyroidhormone.Youknow,itseemslikeifthethyroidneedsiodine,andthethyroidissluggish,thenitmustjustbealackofiodine.Butiodine,Ithinkofit


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morelikeakeytoacarthanagaspedaltoacar.So,it'snotthatthemoreyoupushit,thefasteritgoes.No,ifthekeyisgone,thecarcan'tgoanywhere.Butmorekeysdon'tmeanafastercar.

I'vegotaJeepIuseforgettinginthebackcountryandit'sgreatforthat,butit'snotaracingvehicle.Ifmykeysaremissing,theJeepdoesn'tmoveatall.ButifI'vegot100setsofkeys,myJeepisnotaFerrari.Itdoesn'tmakeitfaster.Infact,youcouldevenimaginetowhere100setsofkeysormaybe10,000setsofkeyscouldmeanthatyoucouldn'tevenseewhereyou'regoing.So,it'sthesamewaywithiodine,andweseethattoolittleslowsthethyroid.Butyourthyroidpumpsiniodinesoaggressivelythatwheneveryougetasurgeofiodine,yourthyroidhasalotofprotectivemechanismsthatkeepitfromjustmakingwaytoomuchhormone.

Youknow,Ithinkaboutthat,like,thecircuittoyourhouse.Saythatourlightshavetorunon10ampsofpower.Andifforsomereason,wehadashortcircuit,wehad100ampsgoingthrough,wewouldblowafusesothehousewouldn'tburndown.Andthat'sthewaythethyroidworks.So,paradoxically,highdoseiodineslowsthethyroid.So,acompletelackofiodinedoesslowthethyroidaswellbutsodoesalittlebittoomuch.

AndintermsoftypicalAmericanintake,theexceptionwouldbethosewhoarerawfoodveganandnotconsumingiodizedsalt,thatcategorycangetlow.Butbarringthatcategory,mostpeopledoaveragebetween160to190microgramsofiodine.Andit'ssurprisingthatalargerangeofdiets,youknow,cookedfood,notexclusivelyrawfood,butsomerawfood,morevegan,morepaleo,moremixed,evenstandardAmerican,it'ssurprisinghowmanydifferentdietsstillfallaboutinthatrange.

So,peoplerarelygetmuchlessthanthat.Andintermsofthesweetspotforthyroiddisease,itseemslikeit'sabout100to300micrograms.So,themoreyouarebelowthat,itcanbeaproblemfortriggeringthyroiddisease,butthemoreyouareabovethat,themorethatcanbeatriggerforcausingitinthosewhoaresusceptibletoit.Andbecauseofthatpump,extraamountsendupjustinhibitingit.

Now,anotherbigwrinkleisthatthosewhoareonthyroidmedications,they'regettingaprettyfairdoseofiodineintheirthyroidmedicine.So,thinkingaboutthat100to300microgramrange,manyofthemareupagainstthehighsideofthatalready.Andtheirbeststrategyisjusttominimizeandavoidanyextraamounts.Butsocommonly,peoplewillhaveveryrealthyroiddisease,orthey'vegotsuspicionsthatmakethemthinkthey'vegotthyroiddisease,andtheywillthentakeiodineto,youknow,hopefully,improvethat.Andsadly,italmostalwaysdoestheexactopposite.

Katie:Thatissuchaclearandconciseexplanation.Ilovethekeyanalogy.Ithinkthat'sreallyhelpfulforunderstandingit.AndIthinkit'salsoveryillustrativeofhowespeciallyintheU.S.,wehavethistendencyofifsomeisgood,moreisbetter.Andthatcomesintoplaywiththediets,itcomesintoplaywithfood.Ithinkthat'sjustaverycommontheme.

Dr.Christianson:Youknow,afewmorepointsonthatjusttohelpyourlisteners,there'snoreallyaccurateiodinetests.Thatoftencomesupasafollow-upquestion,"HowcanItestmyselfforiodine?"I'mnotsaying


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testsdon'texist,theydobuttheonlyteststhatexistareonesthatareaccurateforgaugingtheiodineinapopulation,butthey'renotconsistentenoughforgaugingtheiodineinanindividual.

So,whatImeanbythat,like,sayfora24-hoururineiodineoraspoturineiodine,ifyoumeasure10,000people,youcangetasenseofifthispopulationhasenough,toolittle,ortoomuch.Butifyoumeasureonepersonandyoumeasurethemacoupleoftimes,youwillnotgetthesamereading.You'dhavetomeasureanindividualpersonupwardsof200timeswitha24-hoursampletobewithin90%predictivevalueofwhattheirlevelswouldbe.

So,there'sjustnotaccuratetests.Butfortunately,noneofusareunabletoassimilateiodinefromourdiet.So,aslongaswe'vegotadietwithsomevarietyofgoodorganicvegetables,youknow,variousleanproteinsources,severalfoodcategories,we'regonnabeokayonthat.Andifweareonthirdmedications,thenthemainstrategyistonotaddinanyextraiodine.

Katie:That'ssuchaninterestingpoint.AndreallygoodtoknowbecauseIthinkpeopledounderstandalotmorenowthingslikefolateand,youknow,Bvitaminsandhowcertainpeoplemayactuallynotbeabletoconvertthoseeffectivelyfromdietaswell.Butthat'sgreattoknowthatoniodine,thatdoesn'texist.So,thiswouldbeprettymuchanacross-the-boardrecommendationespeciallyifyoualreadyknowthatyouhavethyroidproblems.Definitelysomethingyou'dwannabeawareof.So,Ireallyappreciateyougoingdeeponthat.

Butbacktotheideaofthemetabolism.AndsoI'mguessingthatthereareprobablyalotofpeoplelisteningwhoareresonatingwithalotofthethingsthatwe'vetalkedaboutandespeciallythatwholecycleofdietinganditworkingforawhile,andthennotworkinganymore.So,I'mcurious,andofcourse,I'lldefinitelymakealinkintheshownotesforthebook,whichIthinkeverybodyshouldread.Butcanyouwalkusthroughwhataresomeofthebasicwayswecanstarttohelpthebodyrecoverandtobreakthatcycleofthedietingandhurtingthebodyandnothavingenoughenergy?

Dr.Christianson:Forsure.Soonebigthingistothinkabouttheideaofchangingone'sweighttoprioritizechangesinthewaistoverchangestotheweight.Sopeoplecanoftendotherightthingsandimprovetheirhealth,buttheymaynotseethescaleweightchangethattheywanted,buttheymayhaveseentheinchesthattheywanted.Andthat'sabettersignbecausetheinchesaroundthewaistarelargelyfromchangesintheliveritself,whichislessmassintheliveritself.

So,that'sonebigthingisfocusmoreoninchesandonwaistthanonweight.TheotherthoughtisIwouldhighlyencouragepeopletothinkaboutanyweightlosseffortsasreallydistinctandfiniteprojects.So,yeah,there'sbeenanideathatifyou'reeatinghealthyfood,thatyourweightshould,like,magicallygobacktonormal.Andaquickpushbacktothatisimagineadietthatwaswild-caughtfreshsalmon,wild-pickedblueberries,greens,thehealthiestfoodsimaginable.Well,that'swhatbearseattogainweightandhibernate.


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So,foodqualityalonewillnotnecessarilyimprovebodyweightbutitcertainlycanimprovehealthinamillionways.So,youwannaeatqualityfoodingeneral,butyoushouldn'tthinkthatyourdaytodaylifeandhabitsshouldleadtoweightloss.Weightlossissomethingthatinthebestofcircumstancesisunnaturalforthebodyandisabitofastrain.

So,inthebook,Italkabout,like,afour-weekprocess.Sixweeksisanupperlimit.Youwouldn'twannabeinamodeofweightlossforlongerthanthat.Ireallykeepitmoretofour,becauselongerthanthat,youreallyarecausingchangestothethyroidlikeyoumentioned,andalsochangestothecortisolrhythms.So,that'sonebigthing.

AnotheroneisthatIliketothinkaboutthecategoryoffuelinthedietratherthancalories.AndImakethatdistinctionbecausecaloriesincludethingslikeproteinandfiber,theyworkdifferently.Fuel,Ilumptogetherconceptuallythecarbohydrates,fats,andevenketonesupplements.Becausechemically,they'reallthesamethingatthepointofbeingusedforenergy.Sowhenthey'rebrokendownbythemitochondria,theybecomesomethingcalledoxaloacetate.

Andallofthem,that'sexactlywhatthey'recomprisedof.So,they'rereallynotdifferentatthatlevel.We'veoftenthoughtthatifwecouldtakecarbs,fats,ketones,andrearrangethatcategoryinsomewaythatthatalonewouldfixthings.ButIwantpeopletounderstandthatthey'rereallyallfuel,andtheideaofchangingthebody'sfueldynamicsandhelpingthelivergetuncloggedfromtoomuchfuel,itdoestakebeingonalowamountoffuelforashorterperiodoftime.

Butthepitfallisthenlosingalotofleanbodymass.Andwhenthathappens,you'rejustgettingsetupforyo-yodietingandmoreimpairmentstometabolism.So,apartaboutthatisbeingsurethateventhoughyou'reloweringyourfuelintake,you'restillmaintaininganadequate,notexcessive,butanadequateamountofproteintocuttheriskofmusclelossandtokeepthemetabolismhealthy.

AnotherthingthatIdothat'squitedifferentinthisprogramis,believeitornot,Idiscourageexerciseduringthatactivestageofweightloss.There'salotofgreatdataaboutthebenefitsofexerciseforweightmaintenance,andIjustcouldnotmorehardlyendorseitforthosepurposes.Butduringthatacutestage,itcreateseithermoreappetiteorahigherdemandonthebodytoprocessfuel.So,Iencourageverybrief,Icallthesemicro-workoutsinthebookandItalkabouthowtodothose,butverybriefthingsofuptojustafewminutestowardsthegoalofkeepingyourmusclesstimulatedbutnotcreatinghigh-fueldemands.

So,thosearesomeofthebigideasabouthavingdietingbeingashort-termproject,maintainingproteinintake,takingthiswholebucketoffuelandloweringthatandthenjustminimalbutadequatestimulationofthemusclestokeepthemengaged.

Katie:Gotit.Andthatprobablyseemspsychologicallysomucheasierforpeopleaswell.Theideaofafour-weekprojectismuchmoredoablethan...Iknowpeoplewhentheygetonadietthinklike,"Oh,Icanonlyeatlikethisfortherestofmylife,"whichisunsustainable.Andthentheyrebound.So,I'mcuriousthen.Soif


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someonegoesthroughthisfour-weekprocess,hopefullythen,they'reimprovingtheirliverbytheendofthat.Isthissomethingthatwouldbecycleduntilapersonreacheswhatevertheirhealthyweightisbasedonsomekindofaschedule?

Dr.Christianson:That'sexactlytheidea.AndwhatIencouragethatwayisifsomeonedoeshavealotofchangetheywanttomakeistoplanonuptofourtimesperyear,youknow,uptoquarterly,andthentakingatleasttwo-weekbreaksbetweentheefforts.So,bestcycleis,ifsomeoneishavingjustasmallamountofchangetomake,youknow,onceayearisagoodthingformaintenance,butifthere'smorechangesyouwant,thenjustonceperquarterisideal.

Andintermsofgeneralhealthbenefits,I'mjuststaggeredbyhowmanythingscanrelatetoasmallamountofhealthyfatloss.Youknow,we'veheardalotaboutvisceralfat,aboutthedreadedbellyfat,andforsure,it'sanemesisbutthere'saversionthat'sevenworsethatwe'venotheardalotaboutandthat'scalledtheorganfat.So,we'vegotadifferentkindoffatthatgetsembeddedintheliver,inthepancreas.Andthatstuff,Imean,evenliketwograms,like,themassofapaperclip,thatcanbethedifferencebetweenbeingdiabeticandnon-diabetic.So,it'sjusthuge.

AndIthinkinalotofcases,peoplehavecutout...they'vebeenveryrestrictiveonfoodcategoriesandthey'veseenhealthbenefit,buttheymayhavemisattributedthebenefitfromtherestrictionwhereitcould'vecomefromjustdroppingsomeofthatorganfat.So,I'veseendataaboutmigraines,autoimmunedisease,polycysticovariansyndrome,diabetes,irritablebowelsyndrome,inflammatoryboweldiseases,fibromyalgia,fatiguepatterns,allthesethingsthatpeoplehaveimprovedandthey'veimprovedthinkingthattheyhappenbecausetheyjustcutdownalotonfoodcategories.

Butthosethingsalsocanimprovefromadropinthisorganfat.There'ssomethat'scalledadipokinesortheseinflammatorychemicalsthatcomefromorganfat,andtheytriggermanynegativeeffectsuponthebody.So,it'sahuge,hugeblessingforthesystemtoshedsomeofthat.Anditfunctionssomuchbetterwithoutit.

Katie:That'sfascinating.AndIknowI'veseensomeresearchanddifferentarticlesexplaininghowbasicallythatideaofthebellyfatorjustthewaist-hipratioforwomenandIbelievewaist-to-shoulderratioformenthatthat'sactuallyamorestatisticallyaccurateindicatorofalotofdifferentriskfactorsfordeathoverthelongtermthanjustbodyweight.Isthatkindoftheconceptyou'reexplaininghereaswell?

Dr.Christianson:Spoton.Andinthebook,Italkalotaboutwaist-to-heightratio.I'veseenalotofdataonthat.Andbothgenders,andit'sactuallyareallysimplethingtoo.Mostofusasadultsknowourheight.Itdoesn'tchangetooquickly.Andthenjustmeasurewaistaroundthebellybutton.Andtheprotocolisgetoutofbedinthemorning,ideally,notafterthedayofhavinglikeahigher-than-normalsaltintake.Butwakeupinthemorning.Emptyyourbowelsandyourbladder,andtakejustadeepbreathinandoutandrelaxyourbellymusclesallthewayandmeasureinchesaroundthebellybutton.Rightaroundthewaistcircumferenceofthepointlevelofthebellybuttonandcomparethattoheight.


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Now,thedangerzoneishalf.Soquitesimply,youwantyourwaistcircumferencetobelessthanhalfofyourheight.And,yeah,likeyou'resaying,I'veseenalotofdatasayingthatyourtotalmortalityrisk,thatcanbeabetterpredictorthanbloodcholesterolorbloodpressureorlotsofotherthings.Andit'salotmoremeaningfulthanbodymassindexwhichcanhavemanypitfallsforthosewhoaretallerorshorterorhavemoremusclemassthantypical.So,yeah,waisttoheightratioisahugely,hugelyimportantvariableandeasytomeasure.

Katie:That's,yeah,asupereasymetrictorememberforsure.Andknowingyou,knowingthewaythatyouresearch,I'mguessingthatyoualsolookedatthemetricsthatcanimprovewhenyouimproveyourliverespecially,like,yourliverhealthandbellyfatandorganfatlikeyou'vetalkedabout.So,fromwhatyou'veseenontheclinicalside,whataresomeofthemarkersthatareactuallychangingorimprovinginthebodyaspeoplestarttoreallyfocusonliverhealth?

Dr.Christianson:Youknow,awesomequestion.Andalotofthingsthatrelatetobloodsugar,bloodlipids,inflammation.So,Italkedabouthowthere'sthisthingcalledleakyliver.Andwhat'shappeningisyourliverislikeasparedepartmentforholdingontoafuel,thecarbs,thefats,theketones.So,wheneverthere'sextraofthat,wewouldholdthatintheliver.Butthere'ssomepointwhereitgetstoofull.

Now,therebecomesdamagetotheliverwhenthereissomuchtherethelivercan'tgrownewcellsquicklyenough.Andthere'sacommonthinginabloodtestcalledALTorthealanineaminotransferase.Andthisisprettybizarrebutwellwithinthenormalrange,alltheliverspecialistsagreethatifyou'reevenontheupperhalfofnormalthatthere'ssomekindofaproblemwithyourliver.Tobeprecise,thenumberis18.Somestudiessuggest19.Butforwomen,ifyou'reabove19,there'ssomethingwrongwithyourliver.Andthere'scertainlycanbeotherexplanationslikeundiagnosedhepatitisorreactionstomedications.Butbarringanyotherclearexplanation,wethinkaboutthisleakyliverasbeingtheculprit.So,that'soneofthose.

We'llalsoseealotofchangesinfastingbloodglucose.Andthisisreallyfascinating.Peoplethinkalotabouttheimportanceofthatwhichthereisalot,butweoftenthinkabout,like,howourdietintermsofcarbohydrateintakeaffectsbloodglucose.Butyet,fastingglucose,fastingbloodglucose,bydefinition,that'snotafterameal.Andsowhensomeonehashighglucoseinthemorning,that'snotbaseduponwhattheyaterecently.So,what'shappeningistheirliverisleakingouttoomuchglucosethroughoutthecourseofthenight.

Andthey'veevenshownnowthroughsomeprettyfascinatingstudies,theycandifferentiatetheglucoseinyourbloodwhetherornotyourliverproduceditoritcamefromyourmealeveninthedaytime,even,like,rightafterameal.Andwhatwe'reseeingisthatpeoplewhoarepronetowardsdiabetesthatabouttwo-thirdsoftheirbloodsugarhasnothingtodowithamealtheyjustate.It'swhattheirbodyismakingallbythemselves.

So,otherthingsthatshowupintestswouldincludetriglyceridesandcholesterol.Andinmanycircumstances,thesearealsotypesoffuelthatareleakingoutoftheliver.So,yeah,it'sawesometoseeallofthosethingsshift,andtheycanquitereadily.


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Katie:Yeah.That'sencouragingforsure.AndI'mcurious,Iwouldguessthatassomeonestartsthisprocessandtriestoimprovetheirliver,firstofall,that'samuchbettermetric,Ithink,tofocusonthanjustcaloriesorweight,becauseit'smoretangible,moremeasurable.Butisitoneofthosethingsthatasthebodyhealsitselforasthebodyimprovesovertime,itgetseasierinasense?Likeinotherwords,themorewesupporttheliver,dothesecyclesactuallybecomemoreeffectivebecausethebodyisabletomoreeffectivelyutilizefuel?

Dr.Christianson:That'sanawesomeinsightandyou'respotonrightthere,too.So,whentheliverishealthy,thenyou'vegotthatmetabolicflexibilityandyou'llbeabletomakeuseofabroaderrangeoffueltypes,abroaderquantityofthemandstillmaintaingoodhealthandfunction.Youknow,it'skindoffunny.Wefocusedforalongtimeabouttheimportanceofthegutandthegutflora,andit'sabigdeal.It'ssuperimportant.Butconceptually,allthatisoccurringoutsideofyourbodystill.

So,yourgutisreallyatubethatgoesfrom,youknow,mouthtobutt,butwhat'sinsidethetubeisnotyetreallyinteractingwithyourbody.Butwhenyouassimilatethingsandtheycomeintoyourbloodstream,thefirststopistheliver.Andthere'sagroupofspecializedcellscalledkupffercellsthatareimmunecellsuniquetotheliver.Andthey'rethesentinelsthatseewhat'scominginfromtheoutsideworldfromtheintestinaltract.Andthere'salotoffeedbackbetweenthebileandthegutflora,andthegutandtheliverandthebile.There'sthisgut-liveraccess.

Andwhatwe'relearningisthat,yes,harmtothegutcanaffecttheliverintermsofthingslikeleakygutortheycallitthebacterialtranslocation.Butitworksbothdirections.Whentheliverisnotfunctioningwell,thepropertiesofthebilearenotcorrecttosupportthedesirablefloratopreventtheleakygutinthefirstplace.So,it'sahugelyimportantfacetofhealth.

Katie:That'sfascinating.AndIfeellikethat'ssomethingthateven...ittrippedmeupforawhiletounderstandthatthegutisactuallyexternaltothebodybecausewhenyoufirstthinkofityou'relike,"No,it'sinside."Butreally,it'strulylike...Ithinkofthose...Idon'tknowifyoueverhadone,butwhenIwasakid,wehadtheselittletubesthatweresupposedtobe,like,seawaterandtheywerelikeanever-endingtubethatyoucouldputyourfingerthroughanditwouldjustkeepgoingbasically.

That'showthegutis.It'salmostlikeastrawthatjustgoesthroughyourbody.Andsothat'sahelpfulanalogyforpeopletounderstand.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyAlituraNaturalsskincare.Youguyslovedthefounder,Andy,whenhecameonthispodcasttotalkabouthisownskinhealingjourneyafteratragicaccidentthatcausedmassivescarringonhisface.Fromthisexperiencehedevelopedsomeofthemostpotentandeffectivenaturalskincareoptionsfromserumstomasksandalotofproductsinbetween.Theresultsarevisibleinhisperfectlyclearskinthatisfreeofscars!Ilovethemaskanduseitacoupletimesaweek,andoftenusethegoldserumatnighttonourishmyskinwhileIsleep.Alloftheirproductshavesupercleaningredientsandtheyreallywork!Andyisabsolutelydedicatedtocreatingthehighestqualityproductspossibleanditshows.Checkthemoutatalituranaturals.com/wellnessmamaandusethediscountcode"wellness"toget20%off.


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ThisepisodeissponsoredbyFourSigmatic,makerofsomeofmyfavoritecoffees,teasanddrinkmixes.TheyareinfusedwithsuperfoodmushroomslikeReishi,Cordyceps,Chaga,TurkeyTailandLion’sMane.Manyoftheirformulationsalsoincludeadaptogens,whichareherbsthathelpourbodiesadapttostress.Andotherbeneficialingredients,alltuckedintoconvenientpacketsthatyoucanaddtohotorcoldwaterforaquickdrink.MypersonalfavoriteistheirmushroomcoffeebecauseIalreadydrinkcoffeeandaddingsuperfoodmushroomisaneasywaytoupgrademymorningcup.IalsokeeppacketsinmypurseforwhenIamoutandaboutortraveling.Ifyouaren’tfamiliarwiththemanybenefitsofthesemushrooms,theycontainthingslikepolyphenols,polysaccharides,beta-glucans,andantioxidantsthatsupporttheimmunesystem.Andtheyaren’tjustgreatforus…theyactuallyimprovetheenvironmentinseveralwaystoo!Theyhelpwithsoilhealththroughaprocesscalledbioremediation,orthebreakdownofdowntoxiccompoundsthathaveinfiltratedwaterorsoil.Fungihavebeenshowntobreakdownandhelpeliminateavarietyofhazardouschemicals.They’retrulysomethingyoucanfeelgreataboutconsuming,bothforyourownhealthandfortheenvironment!WellnessMamalistenersgetaspecialdiscount!Gotofoursigmatic.com/wellnessmamaandusethecode“WELLNESSMAMA”tosave15%.

Katie:Ilovehowalsointhebook,youframesomuch...insteadofjusttalkingaboutfoodandcalories,youtalkaboutfuelandyoutalkaboutthebeneficialside,andIthinkthat'ssuchahelpfuljustparadigmshift.BecauseIthinkwehavegottentoaplaceinsocietywheresomanyfoodsaredemonized.AndIthinktherearealargenumberofpeoplewhotrulydon'tevenknowwhattoeatanymorebecauseeverythingisbadinsomeway.So,Ilovethatyou'rehelpingtoshiftthatconversationaswell.Andonthatnote,whataresomeofthethings...canyoujustwalkusthroughsomeofthebasicsofthedietarysideofwhatyoufeellikearemostsupportiveoftheliver?

Dr.Christianson:Well,yeah.So,inthediet,wegetthingsthatcomeindifferentcategories,andonecategorywouldbefuel.Andweneedthingsfromthefuel.Andallsourcesoffuelindependentoftheirabilitytosupplyenergyhavesomethingstooffer.Youknow,socarbscangivefiber,fatcangetessentialfattyacids.Sourcesofketoneswhetherwemakethemornotcanbeusefulforthestructureofbraincellsandregulationofmetabolism.Theyallhavesomegoodrolestoplay.Thenwethinkaboutproteinandthenthat'sanimportantpartofmaintainingthemusclemassandespeciallysoforgoodliverfunctionandthenjustmaintaininggoodbasalmetabolicrate.

Thenthere'smicronutrients,andtheliverneedsagooddiversityofthose.Youknow,there'sabout9,000differentchemicalreactionsthatoccurinthebodyandthebulkofthosearemanagedbytheliverinsomewayoranother.Andtheydependuponabigvarietyofmicronutrients,vitamins,andminerals.SomecommonthingsthatcanbelackingcanincludezincorB12orfolateorconvertedformsofB6.Andinthedeficitofanyofthese,theliver'sfunctiongetsimpairedbothintermsofhowitmakesitsownreactions,andalsohowitformsprotectiveantioxidantsthatkeepitfrombeingharmedfromthesechemicalprocesses.

AndthentheexistingothercategorythatIputalotofthoughtinto,selectingfoodsfromwouldbethephytonutrients.AndIsaythatwithanuplift,Iguessbecausethey'rereallyphytotoxins.So,thisisweirdbutthere'salotofthingsinfoodsthatareprobablythereaspesticidesfromtheplantitselforinsecticidesfromtheplant.Butinthemicroscopicamountswefindthemfrominfoods,theyreallyseemtoscareourliverintoworkingbetter.


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So,wethinkabout,likebroccoliandglucosinolates,forexample,ifyoucouldtakealotofthat,itwouldbedeadly.ButthetinyamountsinfoodrampupasetofpathwayscalledtheNrf2pathwaysorsomephaseIIconjugationpathways.Butabigvarietyoffruitsandvegetablessuppliesuswiththingsthatmaketheliverstartledenoughtoworkbetter.So,it'snotaconceptbutthey'regoodforusbecausetheyarejustalittlebitbadforus.

Katie:That'ssuperinteresting.Andonthenoteofbroccoli,alittlebitofatangent,IrememberwhenIfirstwasdiagnosed,oneofthethingsyourecommendedthatIjustoccasionallyworkintomydietwasbroccolisprouts.AndIknowitwasn'tjustforthat.There'ssulforaphaneaswell.Butcanyoutalkaboutthatjustasasidenote,thebenefits?

Dr.Christianson:Forsure.Yeah.They'rearichsourceofsulforaphanes.Andyourliver,there'salotofchemicalreactionsthatgoon,butthey'vebeencategorizedintwogroupscalledphaseIandphaseII.Andgenerally,phaseIreactionsinvolvedtakingchemicalsyou'dliketogetridofandstirringthemup,like,makingthemagitated,makingthemmorevolatile.Andthat'sonlygoodasameanstoanend.AndtheendwouldbephaseIIinwhichyoutakethatactivatedchemical,andthenyousticksomethingontoit.

Soalmostimaginelikeanepoxygluewhereyou'vegottwostages.Thefirstoneislikeonelayerandthesecondonethatmakesitholdon.Andsowhathappenscommonlyisthatwiththyroidstrainandalsofromalotoffacetsinmodernlifethatfirstphasegetstooactiverelativetothatsecondphase.Andwecallthatpathologicdetoxification.

So,yourliveristryingtogetridofnormalwastesofmetabolismorjustjunkfromthemodernworld,youknow,allthetoxicantswe'reexposedto.Butindoingso,ifit'sdoingsopoorly,itcanmakethesethingsevenworse,evenmoreharmfulchemicallythantheywerebeforehand.So,there'scommonsituationswhichisbeneficialtocoaxupthesetworelativetophaseI.Andsulforaphanes,they'repowerfulagentsforthat.Andoneofthedensestsourcesbyfararethebroccolisprouts.

Katie:Andthey'resupereasytomake.I'llmakesureIputalinkintheshownotesaswellincaseanyofyouguysareinterestedingrowingthemathome.They'rereallyinexpensiveandIthinkthey'rereallydelicious.AnotherthingIfeellikethat...itseemslikeisabigfactorhere,andIwouldloveforyoutospeakonifitisistheimportanceofsleep.AndIsaythatonlybecauseIknowfrommyownresearchifyoudon'tgetenoughsleepinoneday,you'llstartshowingthesignsofpotentiallyprediabetes.Allyourhormonesgetoutofwhack.I'massumingtherehastobealivereffect.So,doessleepqualityandsleeptimecomeintoplayatallaswell?

Dr.Christianson:They'recompletelyrelevant,yeah.You'reexactlyrightonthat,too.InChinesemedicine,theytalkedalotabouttheseclocksthebodywouldgothroughandhowtheearlyhoursofthemorningwasthelivertime.Andweknowthat.Theliverhasthesevariousjobsbutit'salsostoringfuelforfutureuse.Wecallthistheformationofglycogenespecially.AnditdoestakebeinginREMsleeptodoagoodjobofformingglycogen.Andglycogenisatypeofcarbohydratethat'sstoredintheliver.Andit'sgreattobeableasafuelforjustdailyactivity,butalsotheliverneedstocarryoutalotofchemicalreactions.


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Paradoxically,itneedsglycogentoburnfateffectively,andburningfatisimportantjusttotakethatatfacevaluelikeburningbodyfat.Butit'salsoabigpartofmakingsuretheliverisnotgettingcloggedandabletohelpbreakdownthewaysthatareinsideofit.So,withoutagoodsupplyofglycogen,thelivercan'tdoaprocesscalledbeta-oxidationandburnfataseffectivelyforfuel.

Inglycogenproduction,it'shardtododuringthedaywhenourcortisollevelsarefluctuating.Ourbloodsugarisrisingandfallingbecauseofouractivity.So,it'soneofthemanymaintenancetasksthatourbodyhastofocusonduringdeepstagesofsleep.Andyou'reexactlyright.Youcancompromiseonenightandseemeasurablechangesinbloodsugarthatcanbeworrisome.So,sleepisessentialforallthat.

Katie:Yeah.Ifeellikethat'spotentiallyoneofthebiggerproblemsinthemodernworldthatweallknowweshouldsleepbutIdon'tknowthatwefullyunderstandjusthowdrasticallythatimpactsourhealthandhowjust...andIknowyou'vereadaboutthisin"TheAdrenalResetDiet."Butlookingatbluescreensatnightandalltheexposuretoartificiallightandnotgettingenoughsunlight,allofthosearesoimportantforourhormonelevels.Andit'ssometimeshard,Ifeellike,toreallyunderstandthatbecauseit'snotasimmediatelymeasurableasifyoueatafoodthatisn'tasgreatforyou.Yousometimesfeelbadprettyquickly.Youdon'tnecessarilyseethosechangesasimmediately,sothey'rehardertopinpoint.ButIlovethatyou'respreadinginformationaboutthataswell.

Dr.Christianson:Youknow,andsomethingthatIdidn'tevenmentioninthebookbutI'vestumbledacrossrecentlythatIwishIwould'veputmoreinthebookisaboutthere'smoredatamountingthatsleeptiming,whenyoursleepisoccurringmaybeisclosetoasimportantashowmuchthatyou'regetting.Andemergingdatasuggeststhatthehoursclosertosunsetforwhereveryouare,whateveryourtimezonesanddaylightanddarknesscyclesarelike,thatthehoursclosertosunsetmaybemoreproductiveforliverhealththanthehoursafterward.So,youhavethewholeearlytobedearlytorisething.Evenifit'sthesameamountofsleep,youmaygetmoremileageoutofit.

Katie:Interesting.Andatthispoint,IthinktheremightalsobepeoplewonderingwhenitcomestoespeciallytheMetabolismResetDietandgettingbacktothatmetabolicflexibility,howisthisdifferent,forinstance,thanjuststraightcaloricrestrictionorwhat'sthedifferenceintheprocessthere?

Dr.Christianson:Yeah.Socaloricrestriction,thedrawbackthereisyoucanendupcompromisingprotein.Andthere'salsoquantitiesofcaloricrestrictionthatweknowarejustsettingthestageforreboundweightgain.IrememberwaybackwhenOprahhadoneofherhallmarkmomentswhereshecartedoutthebigwagonof72poundsoffat.Iremembercorrectlythenumberthatshelostfromliquidproteindiets,andwedon'thavethoseanymorebecausethey'reillegalbecausealotofpeoplediedfromthat.So,ifthere'stoobigofacaloricdeficit,itcanbefatal,especiallyifit'swithonlypoorqualityincompleteproteinslikethosewere.

Soyeah,justthecaloricdeficitalone.It'sasadthingbecauseincontrolledsituations,itisastrongpredictorofweightchangesintheshortterm.Butintherealworld,it'snotagreatpredictoroflong-termwaistloss,andthat'sthegoal.So,thedifferenceisthatthisismeanttobeaprogramthatisdoneshortterm.It'snottheidea


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ofacrashdietinthenegativesense,butit'ssomethingthat'smeanttoreallyelicitalastingchangetowardslong-termlastingwaistloss.

Katie:Gotit.AndIknowanotherthingthat'sincrediblytrendyrightnowisvariousversionsoftheketodiet,whichisobviously...well,itrangesalotdependingonwhoyouask,buttypically,higherfatandmoderate-ishproteinandverylowcarb.AndI'mcurious,justyourtakeonthatfromaliverperspectiveandfromanoverallhealthandlong-termweightlossperspective.

Dr.Christianson:So,there'sketogenicandthere'sketosis.Andit'safunnythingweoftengetconflatedorthoughttobeinterchangeable.Andanywaythatyouhaveadeficitoffuelforaperiodoftime,yourbodywillstarttoburnsomeketones.Andifthere'samildfueldeficitthatmaybeadvantageousforhelpingtodecreaseappetite.Butthequestionoftenarisesisthatarethoseketonesthemselvessomehowcausingweightloss,andthey'renot.They'rejustnormalthingsthatshowupwhenthebodyislowinfuel.So,theideaaboutforcingthebodytomakeketonesandsomehowthatthesehighamountsofketonesthemselvesdriveweightloss,it'sjustnotasolidunderstandingofbiochemistry.

Youknow,ketonesthemselvesareanotherfuelsource,andlikefats,likecarbs,theyultimatelybreakdownintooxaloacetate.Andsofar,allthestudiesthathavecontrolledthefoodintakehaveshownthatifyouareonaketogenicdietandyou'reonalowerfoodintakeoverall,you'llloseweightbutnottoagreaterdegreethanyouwouldhaveonsomedifferentdiet,onthatsamefoodintake.Andit'squitepossibletogainweightonaketogenicdietaswell.

So,therecanbeabenefitintermsofcontrollingappetite,butyoucanachievethatbenefitwithanyfoodcombinationthatgivesagentlefooddeficit.Itdoesn'trequirehighintakesofjustonefoodtype.Asfarasgeneraloverallhealth,we'vehadaprettydecentamountofdataintermsofthyroidfunction.Thelargestamountofevidencewehaveonketogenicdietscomesfrom...I'mactuallylookingoutsidemywindowaboutatthatcenter,it'sBarrowsNeurologicCenterinDowntownPhoenix.

Andthey'vedonemostoftheworkonketogenicdietsandepilepsy.Andtherecertainlyisaplacetowherekidsthathavenon-responsiveseizuresthatdon'trespondtomedications,theycanbenefitforsomeperiodsoftimewithketogenicdietsandhavefewerseizures.It'squiteclear.Butthey'vetrackedsomanykidsthatthey'vealsoseenthattherearecertainsideeffectsthatarepredictable.Andoneofthebiggestonesinvolveschangesinthyroidfunction.

So,thyroiddisease,it'squitecommonamongstadults,youknow,basedonwherewedrawthelineforsomeonehavingthyroiddisease.Youcansaythat'saquarterofadultsinanygivenageorevenhigher.Butamongstchildren,itcanbequiterare.Itmaybeevenafewcasesperthousandamongstpreschoolorearlyschool-agedchildren.Butwhenthosesamekidsareonketogenicdietsfortheirseizures,we'llthenseeratesofthyroiddiseaseashighas20%.So,itbecomesquiteprevalent.Andthatsamethingdoesn'thappentothesesamekidsbecauseoftheirseizuresorbecauseoftheirseizuremedications.Itonlyhappenstothosewhoareonketogenicdiets.Andmanyhavelastingthyroiddiseaseafterward.


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So,weknowthatthebodyhaswaystospiritsmetabolism,andthat'sjustwhatitdoesinthecaseofhighstatesofketoneformationaswesuppressourmetabolicratebychangingourthyroidoutput.Andthepitfallisthatformany,thatcanthenbelasting.AndIguesstheothergeneralconcerniswheneveradietcutsouttoomanyfoodcategories,especiallyallthefoodcategoriesthatinvolvethemanytypesoffibers.Youknow,weoftenthinkaboutfiberasathing,butit'sreallyacategory.Andthere'satleast15,16typesoffiberthathavebeendescribedthatwegetfromafullrangeoffoodcategories.Andwhenoneisketogenic,youhavetorestrictfoodcategoriessomuchthatyourtotalfiberdiversityplummets.

So,evenifyouweretoaddinMetamucilorfibersupplements,justyourfoodcategoriesaresolowthatweoftendoseenegativechangestothebowelfloraandweknowthatit'simportant.So,yeah,ifanyonehashadtheirhealthimprovedfromthat,that'sawesome.Anythingthatworksiswonderful,buttherearepitfalls.Andasfarasjustoverallgroupeffects,itdoesn'tseemtobeadvantageousoverjustlowerfooddietsforweightloss.

Katie:Gotit.AndI'mcuriousifyoucouldspeakto...becauseobviously,allthesediets,theyhavetheirplaceinsocietyatdifferenttimesbecausethey'veworkedatleastforasubsetofthepopulationatsomepoint.Butcanyoukindofexplainhowboth,like,dietsthatseempolaropposite,likeforinstance,arawvegandietandalsoamorehigh-fatketotypediet,theycanbothbeeffectiveforpeopleandkindofaccomplishthesamething?

Dr.Christianson:Yeah.Thatcanseemsobizarre.Andtheresponsethatwe'lloftenhearisthat,"Peoplearealldifferent."Andforsure,we'vegotdistinctpersonalitiesandpreferencesandwhatnot,butIdon'tknow.Ithinkthat...andyes,wecertainlycanhavedifferentfoodintolerancesandfoodtastes.Butreally,youknow,noneofusphotosynthesize.Youknow,we'renot...atthecorebaseofourbiochemistry,we'renotthatdifferentfromonetothenext.So,itcanhappenthatyoudothesamethingfromdifferentangles.So,ifyougorawfoodvegan,forexample,youoftencutoutonalotoffueldensitythatwouldcomefrommanytypesoffats,manyprocessedfoods,processedcarbohydrates.Andifonedoesgoverystrictpaleoorketo,they'llcutoutalotoffuelfrommanytypesofcarbsandmanytypesof...andobviouslyallprocessedcarbs.

So,boththosecases,youcanreallybecuttingfuelintake.Andthatbyitselfcanbeagoodthing.Iwouldarguethatifthat'sthepartthatmattersthemost,let'sjustbeawareofthatandstillhaveavarietyoffuelforwhatwe'vegot,andthenalsomakesurethatwe'resupportingourmusclemassalongtheway.So,yeah,it'scompletelypossiblelikethewholeallroadsleadtoRome,butknowingthatandfiguringoutwhat'sthebestwaytotravelalongthatroad.

Katie:Yeah,exactly.Whatabout...Ioftenhearthetermespeciallyrelatedtowhypeoplestrugglewithlong-termweightlosstheideaofametabolicsetpointortheideathatyourbodygetscomfortableatacertainweight.AndI'mcuriousifpeopleareaddressingtheliversideandactuallylikethebiochemicalsideofthisversusjusttryingtoloseweightonascale.Isthatsomethingthatyoufeellikecanshiftovertime?Inotherwords,canthebodybecomecomfortableatalowerweightonceit'sbeenthereforawhile?


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Dr.Christianson:Youknow,itcertainlycanshift.Andthetermsetpoint,onereallycouldthinkaboutratherinterchangeablywithmetabolicflexibility.So,whensomeonelosestheirmetabolicflexibility,theirsetpointgetshigherandcan'treallychange.Andwhat'shappeningis,becausetheirliverissofulloftriglycerides,it'ssojammedupwithtriglycerideandbecauseit'ssodevoidofglycogenthatitdoesn'thavethecapacitytostoreanysparefuel.So,wheneveryougetextrafood,thathastogetstoredassubcutaneousfat,orvisceralfat,ororganfat.Andthenontheflipside,whensomeonelowerstheirfoodintakewithanattempttoloseweight,theliverhasnoabilitytoreallybreakdownstoredfatsafely.

So,eitheryou'vegottomakesuchabigdeficitthatyou'reeatingupmusclemassbecausethat'sthebiochemistryisthatwhenthere'snostoredglycogenorifthere'stoolittleproteinpresent,theliverhastoutilizemusclemasstoconvertthatintoglucosetoeitherburnfatormakeketones.Andwhenyoulosemusclemass,you'resettingupforjustregainandbalancingbackupagain.So,it'simportanttoidentifyfuelasbeingthemainvariablebutthenkeepingproteinsteadysothat'stheretokeepthemusclemasspresent,andalsotosupplyforglycogenregrowthagain.

Katie:Gotit.AndIknowIsaiditalreadyoncebutIwannaechoitagain.Igottoreadapre-advancecopyofyourbookwhichwasspectacular,whichIexpectednolessbecauseallofyourwritingisamazing.It'slinkedintheshownotes.Iknowit'salsoavailableanywherethatbooksaresold.Ijustwouldencourageyouguyslisteningtocheckitout.IthinkitwillreallyreframehowyouthinkoffoodandfuelandweightlossandoffersamuchhealthierperspectiveIfeellikeonthewholeidea.So,highly,highlyendorseitandI'llmakesureit'slinkedintheshownotes.

Buttowardstheendoftheinterview.Ican'tbelieveourtimehasalreadyflownby,butI'dlovetoaskacouplesortofunrelatedquestions,andIcan'twaittohearyouranswers.Thefirstbeingifthere'sabookorbooksbesidesyourownwhichwillofcoursealreadybelinkedthatreallyhaveimpactedyourlife.Andtheydon'thavetobehealthrelated,justI'malwayslookingfornewreadingmaterial.

Dr.Christianson:Youknow,twothathavethemostandIguessinserendipitousways,oneofwhichbecauseitdrovemeintotheprofessionIwentinandthatwastheearliereditionofthe"TextbookofNaturalMedicine."Thiswasintheearly'90s,anditwasoneofthefirst,Iguess,encyclopediasofallthethingsthatnaturalmedicinehastooffer.It'sbeenupdatedeversince.Nowwe'reon,Ithinkit'sthe13thedition.Andit'sanawesomethingbecauseIgottogofromafanofthatandhaveitbringmeintothiswholeworldtobeacontributingwritertoitnowforthe12thand13theditionsonthechaptersonthyroiddisease.So,that'sone.

Anotheronewhich,Katie,Iknowthatyou'recrazysmartandyou'vegotabigrangeofknowledgeindifferentfields,therewasabookseriesfromwhich...there'sabookfromwhichthe"Cosmos"series,theoriginaloneofCarlSaganin1980wasbasedoffof.Andbigthickbook,lotsofbeautifulillustrations.MuchofitwasnewfromtheGalileomissions,butverycutting-edgescience,butalsojustreallydeepexplanationsonhowweunderstandwhatweunderstandaboutastronomyandastrophysicsandhowtheworldworksandbasicphysics.So,yeah,the"Cosmos"bookwaslike...Istillhavemyversionofthatfromsixthgradeandjustbeencompletelyinlovewithiteversince.So,"Cosmos"byCarlSagan.


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Katie:Ilovethat.Thosearebothnewrecommendationsnoonehasrecommendedbefore.Andlastly,iftherewasapieceofadvice,again,itdoesn'thavetobehealth-relatedbutitcanbethatyoucouldspreadfarandwide,I'dlovetohelpyoudothatrightnowwiththecouplehundredthousandpeoplewhoarelistening.

Dr.Christianson:Yeah.Ithinkthemostimportantthingnowadaysistothinkaboutyourthinkingandjustquestiondata,questiontrends.WhenIfirstgotintothewholejourneyofhealth,itwasjustnoveltohaveanyinformation.Andnow,we'vegotallthedatawecouldever...alltheartisticendeavorsandwisdomfromallmankindatourmobiledevices24/7prettymuch.So,therealthingnowbecomeshowwelldowefilterdata.

So,Iwouldencourageeveryonetogetgoodatjusthavingsomebasicknowledgeaboutwhataresomeofthewaysinwhichourbrainhasbugsandnotfeatures.Whatarethecognitivebiasesthatarebuiltin,andhowweoftenmakesuppositionsthatdon'tserveusinthelong-term?Butjusttogetgoodatquestioningourthoughtsandourideas,andif,youknow,someonetellsyouthatbananasarebadfoods,don'tquestionifthat'srightornot.Questionhowtheyarrivedatthatconclusion.Andthat's,Ithink,therealbigthingthat'sgonnasetusapartinthefutureishowwellwecanbediscriminatorsofdata.

Katie:That'sagreatpoint.Ilovethat.AndIthinkthat'stheperfectplacetostopfortoday,butofcourse,you'realwayswelcometocomeback.AndIknowthatwe'llhavemanyfutureconversations.Butfornow,thankyouforsharingyourtimeandyourwisdomwithustoday.

Dr.Christianson:Yeah,mypleasure.Alwaysgoodtobewithyou,andjustahugefanofyourworkandreallyappreciateeverythingthatyoudo.

Katie:Likewise.Andthankstoallofyouwhoarelisteningforsharingyourmostvaluableasset,ofyourtimewithustoday.AndIhopethatyouwilljoinmeagainonthenextepisodeofthe"WellnessMamaPodcast."

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

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