Accession Number: 99-0029i

Austin Walsh

Birth date - March 5, 1926 Age - 72

Interviewed & Transcribed by Theresa Walsh

Interview date: July 27, 1999

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Interview With: Austin Walsh

Location: 32 Beaumont Avenue

Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999

Accession Number: 99-0029i

Interviewed By: Theresa Walsh

Transcribed by: Theresa Walsh

TW: Ok, good day Mr. Walsh.

AW: Good day to you, Theresa.

TW: Were you born in Grand Falls?

AW: I was.

TW: You were, where was your family born?

AW: Mother was born to Gambo and my father's parents were born in Ireland.

TW: In Ireland. So when did your father's family come over to Newfoundland?

AW: Well, my father was the only one that came to Newfoundland. His grand ... his parents

were drowned in a fishing disaster and a brother and sister brought him over here and then

they went back to Boston, that's all I know about them.

TW: How old were you when you first heard the story about your grandfather?

AW: I've been hearing it from the time I was thirteen .. twelve or thirteen years old up till I was

twenty and got married.

TW: So your family was originally from Ireland. Do you know anybody over in Ireland now or do

you know of any relations over there?

AW: No, I've never heard anything about them.

TW: What about Boston?

AW: Yes, ah Dad's brother's children are there in Boston and father's sister's child, she had one

or two children, they're there in Boston.

TW: What was your father's full name?

AW: Francis Aloysius Walsh.

TW: And what was your mother's name?

AW: Mary Walsh, Mary Alyward, that was her name before marriage.

TW: Ok. Where did you live to in Grand Falls?

AW: I was born on Gilbert Street. I moved off of Gilbert Street when I was ah four, going on five

years old up to Mill Road. That's where I grew up to.

TW: Did your family own the house that they lived in?

AW: No, company house.

TW: Did they have to pay rent?

AW: Oh yes!

TW: How much?

AW: I think they were paying around $11 .00 a month, at that time, (laugh) you know. But ah ,

before the Company sold off the town , I think they were up paying twenty some odd dollars

a month.

TW: A month!!!

AW: What father paid for the house when he bought it from the Company I don't know.

TW: You don't know what year it was.

AW: I was never ever told me, er ... kept it pretty quite to his self.

2

TW: Do you remember what the town looked like when it was young?

AW: Yes, and that's what I do.

TW: What can you tell me?

AW: Well I was, I can remember that old Royal Stores, downtown, and Sandy Moores' Store,

the Co-op Store, used to be an old town carpenter shop, the plumbing shop there, up

across the street was the CLBR, that was the first "nickel hall. "

TW: What's a nickel hall?

AW: A theater.

TW: Oh, ok.

AW: We used to call it the "Nickel Hall", I attended matinees in that years ago.

TW: Did you have colored movies?

AW: Yeah!

TW: Ok.

AW: No, not colored movies.

TW: No, all black and white.

AW: Just black and white. The first show I ever attended was about Tarzan, (Laugh) and that

was a good many years ago. And then down on the "" coming up High Street there you

had Taylors, ah he used to be the Jeweler, he lived there and Mr. Brown and there was Mr.

Knight he was the boss's town carpenter. Then you had your post office, the town club,

and then it was the Erin House where the Bank of Montreal is to now - that burnt down.

TW: Ok.

AW: And on the other side of the street there used to be the schools, N. D. A. ah. Notre Dame

Academy or GFA Academy.

3

TW: Yeah.

AW: And then there was a big house there, Danny Byrd used to live in that. After he moved out,

Jack Scott over there, his father and them lived there. Then Goodyear had his office there

and the barns on the back and where the Co-op store is to there used to be two double

houses there. Joe Goodyear lived in one, I don't know who lived in the other one and then

Mr. Lannon lived in the next one and Charlie Hayward. Then Charlie Hayward had the

Allied Candy Store and that was McCarthy's Drug Store and then there was the old Gent's

Store ... the Royal Stores had there that's before the big Royal Stores was built there and

then coming up there you had a Spurrell's Taylor Shop. That was a four .. . double house

and Mr. Noftalilived in the back end of that and the other two doubles ... Herb Janes lived

there and Mr. Bill Janes.

TW: Busy road!

AW: Yeah, and then you had the Cabot House there ... then on the corner of Riverview Road

where the Kinsman Club was to, you had the Exploits Hotel. I carried lunches from there.

TW: Oh, did ya.

AW: Years ago. And ah Mill Road ... ah it's changed now. It used to be Mr. Shallow, Mike

Shallow, Tim Breen, Billy Evans, Mattie Grace, Phil Blackmore, our house .. Walshes .. . and

Bill Cantwell, Sandy Moores, Tommy Oldford, and then ah, Mr. Jim Constable on that side

of the street. Then go down on the other side of the street was the railway station, old fire

hall, Jack Mitchell's, Mr. Jack Dwyer, Mr. Freddy McBain, Mr. Markie Davis lived in that

bungalow, and then in the house you're living in right now was Garrett Wall 's and then it

was Roll Norman's and the next one then was the shoe store, Parker and Monroe, all

that's gone now.

TW: But you got a very vivid picture of it!

AW: (laugh) I have. And ah half of the history, "Trease," in this town is destroyed.

TW: Ya!

AW: The first old horse drawn grader ... Goodyears had that ... that was destroyed and gone,

the first old steamroller we had here for rolling out the roads .. that's gone.

4

TW: What year was that, that they had the steamroller that was there?

AW: Well the steamroller operated here in Grand Falls 'til they paved the road in the front of the

Town Hall and that was in 1950 ... 1940's ... ah . ..48 or 50. That steamroller was here then,

see that was .. . Goodyear had that. That was destroyed. The first snowplough,

?????????snowplough hauled by horse. (laugh) You don't remember that, do you?

TW: No, I don't.

AW: Then your town library up there again. That was a historical spot. That was destroyed and

taken out of it, your post office down here and the courthouse and the jail. That should

never have been destroyed.

TW: No

AW: That was a museum in itself because ...

TW: I remember that!

AW: they used to send wireless messages and everything in that. That was tore down and

destroyed.

TW: What year was that torn down?

AW: Oh my gosh ..

TW: The early 60's or?

AW: That was torn the same year that ah - Husdon Bay ... they built the big place there for

Husdon Bay.

TW: Yeah.

AW: I don't know what date that was.

TW: No.

AW: But there's a .. . Mr. Hillier over there, he ah ... got photographic proof of history here in this

town.

5

TW: Oh ok.

AW: The dates that anything was torn down, he would have that.

TW: Yeah , we got some.

AW: Photographs of before it was torn down, you know.

TW: Yes, we got some pictures, I think they are Hillier photos, right, so that is probably the same

gentlemen that you are talking about.

AW: And the E. I. Bishop studio was down there on High Street too. Came here later years

after but he had the history of the town. He used to run ah .. . what they call those ... "flicker

flashback's" in his ah ... in the big window in the studio nighttime. Turn it on, just drop in

a picture, take it out... .slides.

TW: Oh, and that's what they called 'em ... "flicker flashbacks"?

AW: Yeah, they were pictures of the town in 1918, 1909, the first general manager, everything

that went on in the town, who was married, baby births, the whole bloody lot. He had

everything , had people that died, funerals, and all that. He kept photographic copies of all

that.

TW: Yeah ...

AW: When he left here and went to Harbour Grace his son had all that. No one that I know of

in the history of society here in the town ... of course they didn't have a form then, has was

ever went after that. ..

TW: Oh, we got a lot of it.

AW: He has the whole history of Grand Falls there. I think he is the only man in Grand Falls,

the only man that ever had it.

TW: We got a lot of pictures ... they're all E.I. Bishop pictures ... and ah ... I think there's

probably an interview done, and I ... cause I can remember seeing the picture of Mill Road,

1909. There's Mill Road, Cabot Road, High Street, he did a ... he made a postcard, an oval

postcard out of this picture. It is beautiful.

6

AW: That Elk's club over there now that was E. I. Bishop's home and studio.

TW: Oh, okay.

AW: That's who built that.

TW: Over there (motioning to where the present Elk's Club stands now).

AW: And he had his studio there before he built the new one down on High Street.

TW: Yeah ... but now this .. . was that torn down and this one rebuilt or is it the same ...

AW: No, no when he built the new place down there, he kept that as his home but when he

moved out of Grand Falls he sold it to the Elk's Lodge. He didn't sell it .. . his son Cyril sold

it.

TW: Yeah.

AW: Cause, he went to Carbonear too, see.

TW: Did he, that's interesting.

EW: Tell her about the hospital, Aus.

AW: Yes.

TW: Oh , we'll get to the hospital ... (laugh)

TW: Ah, well you have described the houses and the buildings and the stores so (big smile at

the Mrs.) the hospital.

AW: Old hospital was up there by the Memorial Grounds and that's alii know about that. (Laugh)

TW: Yeah, you never ... you weren 't in there or never had to go in there?

AW: Oh, I was brought up there for cuts and bruises and stuff like that. You know old Dr. Scott

and Dr. Brown was there, that's the only two doctors I knew about. Used to be Dr. Bullard

and some of those there but they were long before my time.

TW: Did you have to wait for a while like you do now to see a doctor?

AW: Not very often.

7

TW: No. And was it a big hospital .. . like is it three (3) rooms up there or a dozen rooms?

AW: They had two wards, was it Esther?

EW: Two ah ... wards and ah ... three semi-private rooms.

AW: Yeah, two wards and a couple of semi-private rooms.

TW: Small .. . small to .. . compared to now.

TW: What ... what do you remember about the atmosphere while you were growing up ... like

as a teenager of Grand Falls?

AW: Well the atmosphere of the town was good.

TW: Yeah. What ... where did your parents work when they came here?

AW: My father worked in the mill as a welder, he was the first welderthatA.N.D. Company had,

first one.

TW: Ok, and ...

AW: His uncle, Tom Power, was boss welder in the shop, that's how he come ... he sent for him

out of St. George's and brought him over here and they trained him and sent him to Sydney

to Foster Wheeler people and they finished training him there as a high pressure welder.

So he was the first welder ... electric welder the company ever had.

TW: Well that's interesting. What were the conditions, the working conditions like when your

father was working in the mill?

AW: They were ... the conditions were hard but the atmosphere was good.

TW: Like ... did they ... I don't ... they didn't work 8 to 4 when they were working in the mill , did

they?

AW: Well, what I remember about me father ... he was a 8 - 4 job but there's .. . there's weeks

that I never seen him because he'd be in the mill from dawn in the morning till dark at night

and sometimes twelve and one o'clock in the night you know, called out on break downs

or sent to Bishop's Falls or up to Millertown Damn and that. I never got to know my father

8

until after he retired.

TW: Yeah.

AW: Because he was always in the mill, late hours.

TW: And was he compensated well do you think for his time?

AW: I'd say he was, yes. They made (chuckle) better money than anybody else, see he was a

tradesman.

TW: So they were paid well and they were treated well ... even though they had to spend weeks

at a time in there.

AW: The conditions of the mill at that time ... there was no safety or anything like that, you know

it was just bull work. It was hard work and your bosses ... they didn't ... they weren't like

the bosses then .. . they were like your father ... you'd be afraid to say no ... afraid you'd get

a crack in the ears.

TW: Oh, ok.

AW: (smiling) or a boot in the backside. But the atmosphere was good, the work was hard but

it was good ... atmosphere .. . not like today.

TW: No.

AW: See you take in this mill today, you got young men down there that don't know what minute

of the hour that they are going to be passed their slip.

TW: Yes, that is true.

AW: But there was none of that then. Jobs were easy to get.

TW: Yeah. Did you go to school here?

AW: Yeah.

TW: Where was the school located?

AW: Ah ... ahm on Church Road .. . Notre Dame Academy.

9

TW: How many grades were in school then?

AW: Up to Grade Eleven.

TW: Up to Grade Eleven, so was it individual classes .. . Grade One, Grade Two, or did you have

a couple of grades in the one class.

AW: No, Grade One, Grade Two ... you started in the kindergarten and went to grade one,

separate classrooms, separate classes for all grades.

TW: Ok. How many students do you think were in school when you were there?

AW: I'd say roughly around about 550 - 600 kids.

TW: Do you remember any of your teachers?

AW: Yes, the first teacher I ever had was Margaret Power. And after her, it was the nuns. The

nuns came here then.

TW: Ok. Do you remember any nun? Any of their names?

AW: Yes, Sister Mary Allan; SisterTerriseta; Sister Fostena; oh my God, Mother Xavier; lot more

I can't remember now. Sister Phelix, most of them I think are dead and gone, or they are

retired long ago, you know, but I think most of the ones I knew, most of them are all dead.

TW: Who was your principal?

AW: Our principal, (laugh) now that's a toss up ... I think Father Finn.

TW: Father Finn (laugh).

AW: The main job raiser. But we had ah ... the nuns came out ... we had a Reverend Mother,

Mother Xavier, she was the head, but I think Monsignor Finn had the final say. (Laughter)

TW: Being a man eh!

AW: Yeah, he was the man.

TW: Did you enjoy school?

AW: What?

10

TW: Did you enjoy school?

AW: Up to a certain point. (Big smile) I had a lot of fun there.

TW: Well I guess you enjoyed it hey? (laughter)

AW: Yeah, I had a lot of fun there.

TW: What would you say it was like growing up in Grand Falls?

AW: Ah ... in those days .. . it was heaven.

TW: Why?

AW: What?

TW: Why?

AW: Because we never had the dope, the alcohol, and the stuff that's going on today. Usually

young boys growing up then, when they came from school they had a certain amount of

work to do, get wood, bring in the coal, things like that. You only had an hour or two in the

evening to go play. You had to come in then, you had to be in the house eight o'clock. And

if you had an old surely grandmother ya had to be in before that. But you weren't allowed

out, you only had certain hours out to play see cause you had a certain amount of work to

do.

TW: So you didn't have time to get into trouble?

AW: You were too tired to get into trouble. There was no trouble in the town growing up like

there is today, you know. There was no cars, no traffic, there was only two or three cars

in Grand Falls.

TW: Do you remember who owned the first car?

AW: Ah .. . l've heard now, Mr. Beson, he was assistant mill manager, owned the first car that

came to Grand Falls but my Uncle Patty Foley had an old Honda T-Ford.

TW: How much was a car do you think? How much do you think they paid for the first car?

11

AW: Well , my first car was expensive bull can remember in 1952 my friend, Bill White, went out

and bought a car, he bought a Chev ... a brand new one ... and she cost him $2,100.00 on

the road.

TW: Imagine, and what's it today - $25,000.00?

AW: Well the same car today if you got it would cost you $30,000.00 because they don't make

'em like they did then. Now that's what Bill White paid for his car - $2,100.00.

TW: And that was in '52.

AW: That was a lot of money.

TW: How much was gas?

AW: Gas ... for a five dollar bill you could fill up with gas and run all the week. I think gas was

around somewhere at $0.26 a gallon.

TW: Unreal!

AW: Some difference (laughter) now.

TW: I wants to put the clock backwards!

AW: Two dollars worth of gas and you were safe for a week.

TW: Imagine. Did you have many children around to play with when you were growing up?

AW: Yes, I had a lot of friends.

TW: What kind of things did you do as kids?

AW: What?

TW: What kinds of things did you do as kids? I wants all the dirt!

AW: Oh we played hockey, played baseball and cricket, cowboys and Indians, played tricks on

the older people nighttime.

12

TW: And what kind of tricks are they?

AW: Well we'd do up a parcel - right fancy - and then ah put it out in the middle of the road and

get a bit of black thread and get down in somebody's garden behind the fence and

someone will come down and see it and when they would bend down to pick it up we would

haul it. (Laughter)

TW: I am going to tell you right here - now this is my father-in-law - so I am trying to get all the

dirt on him. (Laughter)

AW: Halloween nights we used to turn around and take the gates.. . all the light poles in the

town had had spikes in them that you'd climb up, we'd take all the gates and haul 'em up

to the top of the pole and hang 'em up and then the next day we'd get paid twenty cents to

go take them down and bring 'em back. (Laughter)

TW: (Smiling) You were bad, bad, bad. When did you first get light poles in town? Do you

remember?

AW: Oh, by' I wouldn't know Trease, the light poles were in the town as long as I can remember.

TW: Yeah, ok. So what was social life like? Like for kids and then again for adults?

AW: Oh, the social life was good because we had all kinds of activities, not like today. There

was always baseball, football, cricket and stuff like that summertime.

TW: Sports was a big thing in the town back then.

AW: Sports was a big thing, even the girls were involved you know. They had the cricket teams

up here and the football teams. And then there was always something going on, especially

on the Log Cabin Field. You see that Salvation Army played up there Sunday afternoons

and give a big band concert.

TW: Oh yeah.

AW: And then ah ... what's his name ... ah ... had the ice-cream parlor up there, Cec Bond?

TW: Un-hmm.

13

AW: Old mill manager .. Sir Vincent Jones .. . he'd come down Sunday afternoon, he and his wife,

and if there was 500 youngsters there, he'd buy 'em all ice cream.

TW: That was generous.

AW: Yeah, and at the hockey games winter time you go down there, well he'd come down to go

to the hockey game and he'd always wait till the last minute - if there was ten or fifteen or

twenty youngsters outside the door that never had no money, he'd pay 'em all in.

TW: That's nice to know.

AW: He was well-liked and respected. But that was a wonderful gathering place up there. The

people would go up there and picnic ... you know Sunday afternoons and Saturday

afternoons, there was all kind of social activity you know. You never heard a day that there

wasn't something going on that you couldn 't get involved into.

TW: What about the adults, what did they do?

AW: Oh they had their dances and their socials.

TW: And were the dances held up at the log cabin field or?

AW: No, in the Town Hall. Town Hall.

TW: In the Town Hall?

AW: In the Town Hall and the Knights of Columbus Hall.

TW: Ok

AW: They had a live orchestra, about fifteen - twenty piece band.

TW: Was that like for really special occasions?

AW: No, for all occasions.

TW: Goon ...

AW: I think that Sammy Lane and his Wanderers, they had a band. Then Flip Goulding and

Ches Rowsell and that crowd, they had a band.

14

TW: Did you have to pay to get into dances then or ...

AW: Oh yes, ya paid to get into dances but I don't know what they paid then you know, it wasn 't

very much.

TW: No, I wouldn't say.

AW: But they all and they had their house parties and then had ... they used to go around

playing cards to houses and that, there was always something going on.

TW: What about a drama club, was there either one on the go?

AW: Ah, yes. They used to have a club here, it wasn 't called a drama club it was some kind of

a "players outfit. " But they'd ... they'd have ah ... like in St. Patrick's Day coming up and

Christmas and special occasions, they'd put off plays you know, concerts.

TW: And where did they put them off to?

AW: In the old town hall. It was the ... the council office down there now.

TW: Yeah, so that was busy .. .. that town hall ...

AW: All the schools had ah ... sort of a drama club too. We used to put off plays down there

sometimes, cause I took part in several.

TW: Did ya?

AW: I sang (laughter) believe it or not.

TW: And where did you say that was to? Like St. Patrick's Day, you mean, you'd sing.

AW: Ah, St. Patrick's Day and other occasions we'd put concerts off down there, the kids you

know the schools used to do it, Notre Dame Academy and Grand Falls Academy.

TW: What about garden parties?

AW: Ah , they used to be probably about two sometimes three out of a year. That was all held

here on the baseball field , the old one.

TW: Ahm .. . what about fishing back then?

15

AW: Hmm?

TW: What about fishing?

AW: Oh fishing , I spent my time at that on the rivers , and ponds you know - troutin' .

TW: That when you were supposed to be doing your chores? (Laughter)

AW: Lots of times, yeah, but I never mooched from school like some of the boys used to do,

mooch and go fishing.

TW: Well , that's good. I'm proud of ya. Were you or your family involved in anything like .. . any

service groups such as the Kinsmen or Kiwanis?

AW: No, the only group I was ever involved with was the Elk's Lodge.

TW: And you are still involved in the Elk's Lodge.

AW: Still involved, yeah.

TW: Do you want to tell me now what your title is?

AW: Past Exalted Ruler, Immediate Past Exalted Ruler.

TW: And how long have you been involved with the Elk's?

AW: Oh a good thirty-five (35) years, isn't it, Esther. I'm just about forty (40) years now. I joined

the Elk's organization in the old Knights of Columbus Hall. They didn't have their own place

then.

TW: Ok. What church did your family attend?

AW: Roman Catholic.

TW: Was there any rivalry between the Roman Catholic and any other denominations back

then?

AW: Yes there was, if you came into the town and you were someone new, there'd be some kid

run up and want to know what religion you belong to, you know. It is only in the last fifteen

(15) years that that is starting to die out. I think those ecumenical services, you know, they

16

hold from different churches is after breaking all that. The younger generation is not into

that like the older crowd were. It was a deeply religious town.

TW: Excuse me.

AW: You had the United Church, and the Church of England Church there and the Salvation

Army and the Catholic Church, and there was a bit of rivalry there you know. But those

people respected one another just the same you know.

TW: Was there ever any meanness caused because of the tension?

AW: No, not that I know, Labor Day now there used to be a few old fellows get a few beers in

them and then get up on the field there and fight. And that was all cause of that.

TW: What's Orangemen's Day? What's that about?

AW: I don't know. That's an Orange Society. Tis a ... they were religious too you know. Made

up of the Salvation Army, Church of England and United.

TW: Cause someone ... I heard that there was .. ..

AW: Years ago there was a rivalry between the Catholic Church and the Orange Society.

TW: Yeah.

AW: It was bitterness. But the Orange Society is an IRISH society by rights . And they are still

at it in England ... ah over in Ireland.

TW: Yeah.

AW: But that died out here. There's ... we haven't got an Orange Society here anymore. People

have fell away from it.

TW: But there was years ago? Was that before your time or?

AW: No, in my time. Yes, I grew up with it.

TW: Ok. Was there a dentist here in town?

AW: Yes, Dr. Gear.

17

TW: GEAR?

AW: Dr. Gear and his office was down there on High Street.

TW: Ok, what year do you ... was that? Do you remember?

AW: Ever since I can remember.

TW: Oh, ok.

AW: He had a little office off of Uncle Tom Power's house there on High Street just off of Irving

Station.

TW: Ok.

AW: Dr. Gear, he lived on Cabot Road.

TW: Was there an ambulance service? An ambulance service?

AW: No, not at that time. The only ambulance service here was a horse and cart by Goodyear.

TW: So that would take a while.

AW: There was years and years before we got an ambulance service and that was by the

hospital up here, the old hospital before, about five (5) years before they tore down that old

hospital - that's when the ambulance ... we got an ambulance service. See that used to

be a company's first aid station.

TW: The hospital, oh!

AW: Yeah, so it was turned over to the town after as a hospital years later.

TW: Oh, I didn't know that. Ok. What are some of the businesses that the A.N.D. Company

started?

AW: Well, huh, the biggest business that the A.N.D. Company had in the town that I know of

was selling coal and lumber. They sold lumber and they sold coal. But all the rest of the

businesses in the town; there was only Royal Stores and the Co-op Store, they were the

only two businesses here. They had the Town sewed up.

18

TW: The Royal Stores you mean?

AW: Yeah, out in Windsor now you had Cohen's and Riffs out there and Harry Cohen and

Stewart you know but in the Town of Grand Falls there was only two businesses here like

Stewart's. When I was growing up - the Co-op Store and the Royal Stores.

TW: Ok, were there any regulations or procedures that A.N.D. Company had for people to set

up their own business? Like if you wanted to come into the town and set up a business or

even to build your own home, did you have to go to the A.N.D. Company?

AW: Yes you did so to get a permit. They owned the town.

TW: So it was a closed town.

AW: It was a closed town. The only outside business that was here was a Chinese Laundry

down there on High Street where the Jewellery Store was to and Arthur Ho had a restaurant

up over Sandy Moore's store. They were the only two outside people ,you know, that was

in the town with a business and they wouldn 't have got into the town then only for the fact

that they had a laundry. They had a big laundry business.

TW: Ok, and the town was in need of one.

AW: And the town was in need of one and they let one restaurant in here, a Chinese restaurant

and that was up over Sandy Moore's store. Now Ron Hayward had a candy store here and

an ice-cream parlor. He had a little restaurant up over head where he used to cook pies

and stuff like that. The young men and women of the town they'd come from the "picture

show" they'd call it, they'd go for coffee and that over there.

TW: How did the A.N.D. Company treat the town?

AW: Hmm?

TW: How did the A.N.D. Company treat the town?

AW: They treated the town good. They lost!heir Santa Clause when they lost A.N.D. Company.

It was a well-looked after town and the Company certainly well looked after the town.

19

TW: Was it clean?

AW: Yes, the town was clean.

TW: A lot cleaner than it is now?

AW: I would say so. It was more beautiful looking that it was now because half the beauty of the

town, the trees and stuff like that was cut down. Mill Road, I can remember and Esther can

remember too, you walk down Mill Road and the trees, the Cherry trees and the Apse and

the Birch hanging out over the road, it was like going through an archway.

TW: Goon!

AW: And the same way on Carmelite Road there. Well lightning destroyed a lot of them but on

Mill Road when the Company widened the road out down there and paved it to get the

traffic up and down to the mill, trucks, they had to cut down a lot of those trees because

they had to move the fences back. Blackmore Printing Company started up between, right

along ... by me down there, on back of me, and they took a lot of trees out of that in order

to get a roadway up there.

TW: Ok, so ...

AW: The first Advertiser that was sold on the street in Grand Falls, I sold it.

TW: Did ya?

AW: And I helped to print the first one. Meself and Lloyd Everson and Lloyd Folkes. Sonny

Emerson and Lloyd Folkes.

TW: Behind your house on Mill Road there's a great big square brick thing. Is that where?

AW: That was where Blackmore Printing Company was.

TW: Ok.

AW: Yeah, Walter Blackmore started up in his bedroom with a little hand press. Then he

progressed to a foot press out in the old shed. Then he built that place, big place up there

... big printing company up there and started that.

20

TW: How much was ... did you sell the first newspaper for?

AW: Two cents.

TW: Two cents.

AW: I sold the first newspaper to the manager of the A.N.D. Company.

TW: Yeah, and who was the manager at that time?

AW: Ah, ah, Sir Vincent Jones.

TW: Sir Vincent Jones.

AW: He already had the paper because it was sent to him in the mill but he bought it off me for

two cents. (laughter)

TW: Was there much crime back then?

AW: No, you know they had one or two characters in the town then, three characters in the town

that would get into any trouble, you know.

TW: So what was the main thing, like if somebody got in trouble, what was .. . like today our

crimes are... really there's so many different crimes, what was the biggest thing?

AW: Oh break/entry that was the most things, stealing from the stores, cash and that.

TW: Nothing like there is today, hey?

AW: No.

TW: What can you remember about the first police force.

AW: Well the only thing I remember is the first police come that I can ever remember is old

Squibb, and Lar McCarthy and all that crowd you know.

TW: Squibb, you said.

AW: Constable Squibb, yeah . He was the Constable here then.

TW: Yeah.

21

AW: Big blocky fat man, lived over there right .. . right along side of Morrow's. That Morrow's

there ... that corner house there ... that's where he lived to then.

TW: Did they have a jailhouse?

AW: Oh yes, the jailhouse was in the bottom of the post-office. And then your courthouse was

upstairs over the post office.

TW: So they did have a courthouse.

AW: Yeah, they had a courthouse and ajail and that's why I say that building should never ever

been destroyed or tore down because that was a piece of history.

TW: Yeah. Do you know who the first judge was or any of the judges?

AW: Weill knew the judges in my day but who the first judges were here in Grand Falls I can

remember Magistrate Walsh and I also remember that Mr. Jack Mitchell on Mill Road used

to serve as a judge when our regular judge was gone. But Magistrate Walsh that's the

only one I can remember back in my day you know. There was more besides that but I just

can 't remember who they were. The fact that I never went up before 'em I suppose I don't

remember them. (Laughter)

TW: Oh yeah, (laugh) you haven't got a good reason remember them!

AW: (laughter) no!

TW: Even though you were out playing tricks. In the early years of Grand Falls and of Windsor,

there were a lot of disastrous fires. Can you tell me anything about either of the fires?

AW: Ah, the only fire that I can remember of Windsor, now big fire was when Main Street burnt

down. The first time it burnt down though, I wasn 't here, I was away. But the second time

it burnt, I used to ah .. . was out there .... bracing for the engines ... used to come to Grand

Falls and fill up the water tanks and run out there to Windsor there use it on fires cause

there were no fire trucks here then at that time, no tankers. So those big engines used to

carry great big water tanks on them see and they have to come in to Grand Falls here, Old

Ron Howse and Philip, that's what I was doing , plugging back and forth .

22

TW: There was ... we got pictures of that up to the Society.

AW: Yeah.

TW: There was over $500,000.00 damage done to Main Street then. All the stores that they

lost.

EW: (Unintelligble)

TW: No water!

AW: No, no water in Windsor. No water or sewerage. That 's why they had a ... they brought

up the engines from Bishop's Falls ... Newfoundland Railway sentin, they had six engines

and what they used to do there, I was on one, my job was, for I suppose insurance reasons,

there had to be a man from theA.N.D. Company ride those engines back and forth. So my

job was to go in with them and when I'd get there I'd go up and bring the hose down and

fill up there tanks and ride the engine back again. Now they had five or six engines coming

in there - they used to carry 30,000 gallons of water see. So that was the only water that

they had to fight the fire with. And it was the railway trains that they were using to haul the

water back and forth from Grand Falls to Windsor.

TW: It's hard to imagine.

AW: And the first fire wagon they had in Grand Falls they used to have to push it. (laughter) Big

hand pump on it .. .

TW: Oh one of those .. .

AW: And run (laughter)

TW: Jesting - one of those "thingies" (laughter)

TW: What were the causes of most of the fires that you did have?

AW: Ah Theresa, I think that ....

TW: Just like, I am wondering if it was just accidents or was there arson?

AW: No, it was overheating, one was an overheated stove or something that caused one of the

fires in Windsor, wasn't it. Yeah, they had some kind of a furnace system in. I think at the

time they never had no oil, I think it was coal, you know, wood and I think that's what

caused that one. Well now the one when I was away, in the States there, they had a big

fire swept Main Street then I don't know what caused that, I just know that when I came

23

back it was nothing only a pile of cart .. .

TW: What year was that?

AW: That was in 1942 or was it 43? Yeah, I came home in 1942 ... 43. It was in the fall and that

was all burned out then.

EW: It was in the early forties ... ..

TW: So how well. (cleared throat) How well equipped was the fire brigade?

AW: They weren 't ... at that time. They had a few old pumps, you know, they had no fire trucks

or stuff like that. Ah ... Windsor fire, they had a fire truck, but ah, t'was only a little pump on

it and they only carried about five or six thousand gallons of water. Windsor didn't have a

fire department. Later years that came.

TW: Yeah. How did ah, If you were in town and there was a fire , how did you know that there

was a fire?

AW: Oh they had a siren on the hill there, Well usually before that,

TW: Oh! I forgot about that, Yes!

AW: Ah ... the Mill whistle used to blow.

TW: Yeah.

AW: And keep blowing continuous you know, you'd get two long, two short - two long, two short,

that called the fire brigade.

TW: Ok.

AW: And they'd be told when they'd get there, where the fire ... they'd ring the Mill office -

telephone exchange down in the Mill, that's where the telephone exchange was to then see

they'd phone there and tell 'em where the fire was at and then they'd blow the whistle. But

after that when the town took over they put a siren up here on the hill behind Johnny

Christopher's.

TW: Yeah. I forgot about that.

AW: And old Mr. Bartlett used to have a tinsmith shop. The first tinsmith shop in Grand Falls

.. . that's where it was to was up there behind Feaver's.

TW: Was it?

AW: Yeah.

24

TW: I remember ah .. years ago, the whistle would blow and people would listen to the certain

sounds ... I don't know if it was the sounds or the number of times and they'd know what

street the fire was on. How did that work?

AW: Ah .. . it's like a code .. . like alright now if you had a fire we say on Beaumont Avenue, I don't

know what it's like now, but I think it's the same system now. Like they'd have three long,

two short for this area,

TW: Ok.

AW: They'd repeat that so many times. Now if it was downtown, say on Mill Road, it might be

four long and one short so (laugh) toot a toot.

TW: Yeah! (laugh) So anybody then, like back then, if they were ... they went to fight the fire,

this was all volunteer or was there an actual department?

AW: No, all volunteer.

TW: All volunteer. Was there a post office?

AW: Yes, as long as I can remember.

TW: What was it like?

AW: Big building downtown there .. . big square building, brass rails.

TW: How many people do you think it employed?

AW: I think there was about six people that worked in the, six people behind the, besides the

wire,s operator. ..

TW: Hm ...

AW: That's the man that used to send the messages wireless.

TW: So would you say that the post office in your day is different than the post office today?

AW: (Laugh!) I hope to tell ya!

TW: What's the biggest difference?

AW: The post office was a meeting place where you met everybody, swapped information, got

the latest news.

25

TW: Oh!

AW: And the atmosphere of the post office is way different today. Cause you go into the post

office today, unless you know the fellow behind the counter, if he's selling ya a stamp he

makes ya feel like he's doing ya a favor. It's not the same.

TW: No!

AW: There was no unions then .

TW: No, that's true.

AW: Different service all together.

TW: Yeah . Can you remember how much stamps were?

AW: One cent, two cents, three cents, each stamp had its own value.

TW: So if you paid three cents for a stamp back then, did you think it was expensive - back

then?

AW: No.

TW: No, compared to fifty-four cents today. (laugh)

AW: Well when we working in the mill you had to have a two-cent stamp to put on your card or

the Company wouldn't payout. That was the taxes, the federal...the Newfoundland

Government put on there. Two cents taxes.

TW: Oh that's what those books with the stamps are for?

AW: Yeah, now (unintelligible) ya pay card you'd go down to the post office and you'd buy a

couple of dollars worth of two cent stamps.

TW: Yeah ...

AW: And when you 'd get your pay card, to go cash it you had to take a two cent stamp and stick

it on the card. That was the two cents that went to the government, that was taxes. That

was the taxes that you were paying on your paycheck that you were receiving.

TW: Ok, right. Far cry from what you 're paying today!

26

AW: (Laugh) yeah, ya don't even get a stamp now.

TW: (Laugh), no they just takes it. I didn't know that. I've seen those little books and all those

stamps and wondered what they were for because it's like there's stamps on them and then

the stamps are stamped.

AW: No, that was the union books.

TW: Ok.

AW: That was union dues. You would pay your union dues and you had a book and when you

paid your dues they'd give you a little square stamp and you'd stick it on and that showed

that you paid for that month.

TW: Ok.

AW: That was a union book. It was all stamps.

TW: So how much was your union dues?

AW: I used to pay fifty cents.

TW: What was that, a week or ...

AW: No, a month.

TW: A month!

AW: Yeah.

TW: What year did the union come in?

AW: Oh, the union my god ... from the time I went to work in the mill the union was there you

know. But now before that I couldn't say.

TW: No, do you think ... like your father would have found a difference working with no union

and then working with a union?

AW: I'd say he would.

27

TW: What do you think the biggest difference would have been for him?

AW: Well the improvements in the working conditions, health wise and safety wise, and money

wise. Not only that he got. .. they got the insurance you know and benefits that they didn't

have in them days. Like I know, I remember my father was off one time he lost a kidney

and he was off all the winter. He had an insurance but he couldn't get it. He had to go

back to work and work two weeks before he'd get that insurance.

TW: That's terrible.

AW: That's the way they worked then. Now if you get off your insurance starts from the first day

you're off but it didn't then. You had, if you were off two years, you wouldn 't get a cent until

you'd go back to work. You had to go back to work and work two weeks and then they'd

pay your insurance.

TW: And what did they expect you to do for that two years?

AW: Laugh ... your guess is as good as mine.

TW: Cause like ...

AW: Unless they had extra money put away or like food wasn't too bad because any day the two

groceries stores they had in the town would carry ya.

TW: You didn't have Social Services back then, did ya?

AW: If you didn't have the cash for the store groceries, the business wouldn't carry ya , then you

were in trouble. There was no security or anything like that.

TW: No.

AW: You couldn 't run up to Food Bank or the Welfare, there was none of that here.

TW: I can't (laughter) imagine that either!

AW: But then again Trease, remember if you had five, if a man worked in the mill with a family,

if he had five or ten dollars put away he could buy more groceries out of that five or ten

dollars then he'd buyout of a hundred and ten today.

28

TW: Yes, that's true.

AW: So, I mean, things were different. A pound of sugar and a bag of flour was very cheap.

TW: Yep, you got more for your dollar back then than what you're getting now.

AW: Yeah, that's right.

TW: What were the holidays like as a ... as a "young kipper"? (Smile)

AW: Good, yeah we used to go to Peter's River camping.

TW: Where's that to, Peter's River?

AW: Down this side of Botwood.

TW: Ok.

AW: You know where ah .. . that park is down in Botwood, the park is in on a place called

Swanee Pool, that's where the salmon used to be. We used to go down there camping.

TW: Yeah.

AW: We'd go to the garden parties and that down in Botwood, go down on the train, get a ride

down for nothing. (laugh)

TW: How long did it take you to go from here down to Botwood on the train?

AW: Ah ... it was probably about forty-five minutes, fifty minutes run. That's providing now she

never had to stop in Bishop's Falls and pick up cars or anything like that. But a straight run

now what they use to call "The Special" ... for the garden party they'd put on the special ,

you know, they only had so many passengers cars and box cars. Go down there pay your

ten cents and get aboard it and be gone all day and bring you back in the evening.

TW: So that was a big deal I guess.

AW: Oh yes! A big deal ... a ride on the train ... . you taught you were a big fellow you know to

get a ride on train. Especially if you got a ch ... knew the engineer you'd get up in the cab

of the train, you might have to shovel (laughter) coal on the way down and back.

29

TW: It's hard to believe that there's no trains running today, isn't it?

AW: Yep.

TW: How did you celebrate Christmas?

AW: Christmas, you didn't know about Christmas until you woke up Christmas morning . You

never seen toys, no Christmas trees, no nothing. You'd get up Christmas morning and it

was there, you didn't know how it got there, but at that time ...

TW: Santa brought it.

AW: Well we didn't know anything about it, you'd never ... there'd be no decorations, nothing put

up, the house would be just the same as it is now. You'd go to bed .. . you were drove to

bed at seven o'clock, and if you didn't go to bed at seven o'ciock, "Sannie" wasn't coming .

TW: Yep.

AW: So when you woke up in the morning, come downstairs, it was all there. So I've often

thought our parents must have worked so bloody hard.

TW: Yep.

AW: You know, to get all that ready after eight or nine o'clock in the night.

TW: Yep.

AW: And have it already for Christmas morning. You wouldn't be getting computers and that

that you'd be getting today, you'd get a pair of socks, pair of boots to go on your feet,

probably get an apple or orange in your stocking but that the first time you'd see, nothing

like it is today.

TW: No.

AW: I never got no expensive toys, all you got was clothes to go on your back. Necessary

things, you know.

TW: Like, did ye make up lists the way kids do today?

AW: No, I didn't. I can't remember making up list. It would be no good to make it up anyway.

TW: No, I don't say.

30

AW: Cause you pretty well knew what you were going to get for Christmas. You got clothes to

go on your back and boots to go on your feet.

TW: Well, so, Christmas wasn't as commercial back then as it is now.

AW: Well, you wouldn 't ah .. . go into the stores and see toys around like you did now. Probably

about three days before Christmas that'd be put out on display you know. But you wouldn't

see it now, you 'd go down to the grocery store and buy your groceries and the first thing

people are buying toys for the kids. It's on the shelves all year around. You wouldn't see

none of that.

TW: That's amazing!

AW: Yeah, it is. And that's the way it was, but Christmas is ruined, it's commercialized. They

commercialized Christmas and TV killed your Christmas here. And then Christmas time

we used to have a lot of fun going gennying.

TW: Gennying?

AW: Ohyes!

TW: Mummering you mean?

AW: We used to call it gennying. We'd rig up and go out.

TW: So what did you rig up as?

AW: Ah?

TW: What did you rig up as?

AW: Oh anything you could get. Mother's dress or your sister's dress or old pillow stuffed down,

paint your face, used to have a rag hauled over your face with two holes cut into it.

TW: So nobody knew who you were?

AW: Well ya ... you'd go into a house and that was the fun of it, to go in and the people in the

home then would have to guess who you were. If they guessed who you were you had to

sing a song , dance or you had to play an instrument of some kind . So I always had me

mouth organ.

31

TW: So I guess they knew who you were, did they?

AW: Most all the time they knew who you were.

TW: After a while?

AW: They knew by your walk. (Laughter)

TW: Yeah .

AW: Scattered time you know you'd go into a scattered house and they wouldn't know who you

were. But most times when they went through the door, they could tell who you were

according as you came in.

TW: So what did you do? You'd stay at one house for how long?

AW: Oh, by for about ten minutes, get herself a drink (laugh) of syrup and a piece of cake,

move on to the next one.

TW: And like, would you be there for a couple of hours mummering or ...

AW: No, we'd usually always have one house picked out where we knew we could go in and sit

back and get the mouth organ and the music going and have a bit of fun, you know.

TW: Yeah.

AW: But usually go in the house and just ...

NOTE: flipped tape to other side and lost a sentence or two but we are now discussing

why mummering has all but disappeared.

AW: After the RCMP, after the RCMP come here, it wasn't so much (untelligible) only but when

the RCMP came here they cut it out because crime rate started to pick up across the island.

And they figured that if you were going out mummering .. . your face covered up ...

disguised ... it would be the perfect excuse for someone to get into trouble.

TW: I see.

AW: So they banned it. Now they still do it but what they do is they don't go out and walk the

streets now like they did. They get into a car and you got like say, me and Esther got ready

32

to go gennying, we'd get into our car, dress up and come down and come into your house.

Well we weren't going around the street. Years ago you'd go out and you'd have your

music you'd be playing it on the streets going along you know.

TW: Yeah .

AW: Singing and going in the houses and every door in the town was open to you.

TW: I didn't know it was banned.

AW: Ah ..

TW: I never knew that .. .

AW: Yeah, they banned it, the RCMP banned it when they came.

TW: So what did people think first when they banned it?

AW: Well , they, they were a little bit upset because a lot of fellows used to have a lot of fun you

know, to go out gennying. Gus Power and Ray Power and that crowd used to go and rig

up, they all could play and sing you know. We used to have a lot of fun at it. But they

banned it and most of the crowd, everybody understood the reason why they banned it.

TW: Yeah.

AW: But years ago there was no crime rate here, you could rig up gennying and disguise

yourself go down the road you know, go around to the homes, we had the old town

policeman here, nine chances out of ten he'd be walking around behind you and it wasn 't

because to see if you were going to be quiet ... to see if ya'd get a drop of homebrew.

TW: Oh!!! (Laughter) Homebrew, what's that???

AW: (laughter)

TW: And you said you used to mummer .. . go mummering for twelve days - the twelve day of

Christmas?

AW: Oh yes, twelve days of Christmas, yeah. If you weren't beat out.

TW: Yeah. (Laughing)

AW: Yeah, you'd be at it again.

33

TW: What kind of things did the adults get for Christmas?

AW: Oh, they'd party and visit one another's homes, you know, they'd have their own parties in

the evenings and that once the kids put it away and put to bed and that, they'd sit back and

have their few drinks. Probably what they used to call "kitchen rackets" and they'd have

their dances too and the music, out visiting homes and stuff like that.

TW: Sounds like good times.

AW: And many years ago, one thing that was good is there was a lot of snow down and the trees

were done you know like you see, beautiful sometimes .. .

TW: Yeah

AW: And of course young fellows would go down to Goodyear and get drive sleigh out and

they'd have the horses they'd hire you know a driver to drive the sleigh and they'd drive.

Oh I used to take one horse and drive sleigh and pick up Ms. "So & So" and take her and

drive her around the town and things like that. Big bear skin rug over 'em you know side

drive the sled.

TW: Yeah.

AW: I used to do a lot of that.

TW: Did the town have a Christmas tree then?

AW: No.

TW: No?

AW: No, that was only after the council took over, that only started a few years ago.

TW: Ok. What about you .. . at home, you had a Christmas tree?

AW: Oh yeah, Dad always had a Christmas tree.

TW: You just didn't get to see it till Christmas morning? Same here, when I grew up we never

seen our tree.

AW: Nothing in the house to indicate that the next day was Christmas.

34

TW: Did ye have parades? Christmas parades?

AW: No.

TW: No?

AW: No, not then.

TW: That was after the town took over too, was it?

AW: That was after the Town Council took over and the different ... Kiwanis, the Kinsmen, the

Lions Club, I think they are the ones that started that. The different fraternities and the

societies of the town started that.

TW: So would that have been in the 40's or?

AW: No, that's only about what ... that's only about twenty ... twenty some-odd years ago that

started.

TW: Ok.

AW: It was after the Town Council took over and those fraternal societies started here in the

town you know to give you some background. I think the Kins and the Lions were the

instigation of that. That is where it was born.

Mrs. Walsh speaking from another room, but not understood.

TW: What types of businesses were in Windsor?

AW: Ah, you had ah ... Riffs had a shoe store and ah ... there was ah Goodyear Humber Stores

was there on the corner, that was before Riff went there. Then it was Bernard Dugal and

then Cohen's and then Paddy Connors had a business there on the road and they had a

restaurant there and then ahLouie Basha ... he had a restaurant there. And a Harry Cohen

had a drygood and hardware store.

TW: When you were growing up, what did you refer to Windsor as?

AW: Windsor.

TW: Windsor? Ok

AW: I always referred to Windsor in my day.

35

TW: Because one time, it was referred to as Grand Falls Station.

AW: Grand Falls Station, yeah. Well it didn't become Windsor until the town ... see it was the

first town that was incorporated by the town council. And that's what that named it .. .

Windsor. Now what year that was I didn't ....

TW: I think it was '38 .. .

AW: I think Mr. Spencer at that time was the first Mayor of the town and when he incorporated

the town as an official town council they put the name Windsor on it.

TW: Ok.

AW: But it was called the Grand Falls Station.

TW: Yeah . Where did you buy your groceries and meats or where did your parents buy their

groceries and meats?

AW: Always to the Royal Stores or the Co-op and ah to Cash's store out in Windsor, up behind

Riff's ... Cashin had an old grocery store up there, we used to shop out there too.

TW: Ok.

AW: But mostly the Royal Stores and the Co-op Store.

TW: Did you buy your groceries like once a week, did your parents .. . how often did your parents

go grocery shopping?

AW: Ah ... once a week ... get paid ... ah ... no a fortnight back then, used to every two weeks

you'd get paid see .. . but they used to go fortnight see.

TW: Ok. What about your clothing , where did ya ... where did ya buy clothing?

AW: Out to Cohen's, and Dubow's, sometimes the Royal Stores but they were a little bit

expensive so usually they'd go to Dubow's and Cohen's.

TW: Ok. Did you notice any conflicts between Grand Falls and Windsor?

AW: Oh, there used to be conflicts for years between the people of Grand Falls and Windsor

because if a boy in Grand Falls got married and went across the track in Windsor he was

almost disowned because he was living in Windsor, you know.

36

TW: Why?

AW: I don't know why that was .. . ah ... it was always there. Ah , now when I got married I moved

to Windsor and I lived out there twenty-four (24) years and my people almost disowned me

because I lived out there. They wouldn't allow their children to mix with mine because we

lived in Windsor. They .. . I don't know, I don't think they stopped to realize that all the

people of Windsor worked in the Mill in Grand Falls.

TW: What I've come to believe since I've been doing this , is that Grand Falls was a closed town

and first when they started like anyone that was living in the Grand Falls Station .. . they didn't

work in the town at the time so if you didn't work in the town, you weren 't ... you couldn 't

live in the town and that's how that area grew.

AW: Yeah.

TW: So some people have said that's where the conflicts came from that they figured you

weren't working, you weren't on the same level .... did you ever hear anything about it?

AW: (unintelligible) like you say, it was a closed town. I don't know why ... what caused the

conflict but I know myself, personally, when I got married and went out there my sister was

married in Grand Falls, her children wasn't allowed to mix with mine because my children

were from Windsor. I mean to say that there was a lot of that went on. Why, I don't know.

I mean to say I never, ever questioned it.

TW: No?

AW: Because eighty-five (85)percent of the people on Windsor ... their husbands worked in the

mill in Grand Falls. There was a few people come in from outside and lived out there in

what we used to call "Shack Town" one time.

TW: Yeah.

AW: But then as they got permanent jobs here in the mill they built their homes and moved out

there and half of Grand Falls that got married built homes out there and moved out there.

37

TW: Yeah. Do you think there's still a conflict today?

AW: Yes, there is a little bit yet. All you got to do is look at .. . the town was talking about ah ...

changing the name to Exploits Valley, the people of Windsor got up against it and they

wants to hold their own name, "Windsor," what they were incorporated with you know.

TW: Yeah.

AW: But I think there's a lot of prejudice still there .. . a lot of it.

TW: Yeah, on both sides.

AW: On both sides. That barrier will never come down with this ... with some of the older

generation. The younger generation, they couldn't care less what you calls the town - that

doesn't bother them. Until the older generation goes, you still got people like that.

TW: Yeah. What changes did you see take place in the town after it was incorporated, after

Grand Falls was incorporated?

AW: Oh my god, there were a lot of changes that took place here in Grand Falls. As far as

businesses were concerned and not only that but now I see High Street used to be the most

popular business section here in Grand Falls, that's just about wiped out.

TW: Yeah .

AW: But when they amalgamated Windsor and they put the industrial park out there all your

business went out there and people said," Oh, it killed Grand Falls '" But it didn't kill Grand

Falls because Grand Falls people still goes out there and does their business. But the

Co-op Store and the Royal Stores went and the Co-op Store still stayed there. I think the

Co-op Store is the oldest established business in the town. I think they were there before

the Royal Stores was.

TW: And they're constantly talking about moving.

AW: They are, but I think it would be too costly for them right now to move off of High Street.

And I think that ah ... business people .. . society - they got here in the town and the Council

too, I think are trying to keep them to stay on High Street you know. Because if the Co-op

Store moved off of High Street that would be dead down there.

38

TW: Yep. What effect did Grand Falls incorporation in 1961 have on Windsor?

AW: At the time, none, until they amalgamated . That had an effect, they benefit quite nicely.

TW: Do you remember what the atmosphere was like in Grand Falls and Windsor during the

wars?

AW: No, not too much. I think the atmosphere was the same as it is now. Anymore than half

the boys in the town were overseas you know and people were on edge, didn't know when

they were going to get that message - their son was gone or something like that. But I

mean to say it was a pretty close town, a lot of them older fellows that couldn 't go overseas

got into the militia were a little bit excited too, you know. But things went on .. . business

went on as usual.

TW: Do you know who ... some of the men and women that went to war?

AW: Yes, I know a lot of them. Paul Cantwell ; Phil Grouchy; Danny Goodyear; Bobby

Matthews; Tom Power; Ray Power; they're cousins, JackAlyward; PatAlyward; Eric Dwyer;

AI Dwyer; oh I could name a list of them. Jack Scott; ah .. . Ned Scott; ? George ... the

airforce; Ralph Morris; a whole list of them, I can't remember them all now.

TW: No.

AW: There was an awful lot of boys here.

TW: Well I guess a lot didn't come back.

AW: Yes sir. Go up by the war memorial, their names are up there. There's an awful lot of them

that didn't come back.

TW: What can you tell me about the strike of 1921?

AW: Not too much, I wasn't born until 1926!

TW: You were not born. What about in 1959?

AW: Yes, I knows about that strike. Ah .. . not too much I can say about that. The unions and the

company battled it out for a while but I think that the unions lost out. They didn't get what

they were after that time and ah ... since that strike, unions lost a lot of power.

39

TW: Yeah?

AW: They haven't got a ... not only that but they don't have the membership anymore. They are

not as strong and powerful as they were then. If they were to have such a strength today

I think the company would break their backs.

TW: Yeah?

AW: They don't have the power.

TW: Do you ever remember your father talking about the strike in 1921? Did he ever refer to

it?

AW: No, I never heard father say anything aboutthe strike in 1921, I don't know too much about

it.

TW: Ok. Do you remember the early mayors?

AW: Early mayor? Yes I can remember the early mayors. (OW!!!) I forget his name now. The

first mayor of Grand Falls, he was ah .. . public relations officer for the A.N.D. Company at

the time, I just can't remember his name.

TW: That's ok. Who was in after him, do you remember?

AW: Charlie Edwards.

TW: Charlie.

AW: Walter Tucker was the first mayor. He used to be the public relations officer with the

Company here at the time and when they took over the town and formed the first council

he came ... retired from the mill and then he took over as mayor of the town, first mayor.

TW: What was politics like in Grand Falls and Windsor?

AW: What?

TW: What were the politics like in Grand Falls and Windsor then?

AW: Oh, you had the Liberals and the Tories, the same as it is today. The die hards!

40

TW: What was the biggest conflict .. . er ... what were the big issues back then?

AW: Well the biggest issue that I see about politics was Confederation. You had one half the

town for it and the other half of the town against and they ... they had some rowdy rallies

here.

TW: That must have been an exciting time, you know, to be around then.

AW: I was boarding in the Cabot House then, first married when Joey Smallwood was staying

at the Cabot House. Of course, Ken Goodyear was the head of the Liberal Party we say

"Carrying Card Liberals." Of course when Joey Smallwood come here campaigning for

Confederation Ken Goodyear was the top of the list then see. He had the Liberal

Committees here in Grand Falls, he was a voting delegate at the time. I was boarding in

the Cabot House he used to come down and I used to hear the pro's and the con's of it in

the evening you know, but there were some pretty heated arguments.

TW: Yeah?

AW: But that all died off after confederation and today I don't think the older crowd is that much

interested in politics anymore. The younger generation is getting a little bit interested in it.

The older crowd they got the attitude, "Well the hell! Opps! It makes no difference who

goes in -- we're gonna pay anyway," that's the attitude now.

TW: Yeah, and that's kinda what I says too. (Laughter)

AW: Well that's it people here in Grand Falls, not in Grand Falls but all over Newfoundland you

take down in Twillingate and those places ... things goes wrong down those people gets

"upstrapless", they rile up to get something done but here if you don't take away the pocket

book - they don't care. Like the price of gas, they don't care if you charge $50.00 a gallon

for it - as long as they got it in the wallet they'll go buy it.

TW: Yep. We're pretty laid back.

AW: Yeah.

TW: Have there been any famous people been in Grand Falls or Windsor?

AW: Oh yes, we had quite a few famous people here in Grand Falls and Windsor over the

years. We had a few movie actors here in the town and had country and western artist here

41

and things like that.

TW: Can you remember any names?

AW: Pat O'Brian, he was a movie actor who was here in Grand Falls at one time and Vera Lynn

... Vera Lynn, she was a quite a singer and actress during the war, she was here. From

that I don't know, a visit from royalty here, government officials.

TW: Was it exciting when Royalty came?

AW: Ah, most of the town was excited about it, you know to see the princesses and stuff like

that.

TW: So have any famous people come out of Grand Falls and Windsor?

AW: There is some Trease that came out of Grand Falls but I just can't remember 'em now, we

had actors gone out of this .. . movie actors, we had singers, interpreters of languages and

that, government and federal government in the United States.

TW: Yeah. Is there anyone else that you think that we should talk to?

AW: (Laughter) ... I don't know who to tell you to talk to for the history in this town. There's an

awful lot of it here and an awful lot of people got it you know. But you 'd have to get

someone older than me.

TW: (Laughter) Do you have any photographs or documents that the Heritage Society could

copy?

AW: Ah, I don't think, Trease, I got anything here way back because in them days I didn't own

a camera and I wasn't interested in taking pictures. And right now I don't think we got

anything here that the Historical Society haven't got. They got it farther back than I went

cause it's only after we got married and I started a family we started taking pictures you

know.

TW: So you said you boarded at the Cabot House?

AW: Yes, I did so.

TW: So that was a big boarding house?

42

AW: Oh yes, Cabot House.

TW: Was it the only boarding house then?

AW: Ah, that was the only one in the town, wasn't it.

EW: Old age .. . old age .. ah

AW: Oh the Carmelite Hotel

EW: That was the Carmelite Hotel

AW: And Baird's Hotel

TW: Ok. What was the Erin House?

AW: Erin House used to be there where the Bank of Montreal is to. That burnt down years and

years back. I was only about nine - ten years old.

TW: It was a boarding house then, was it?

AW: Yeah.

TW: Called the Erin House.

TW: Yeah, cause I've heard tell of the Erin House and the Cabot House, but I wasn 't quite sure

what they were.

AW: I was about eight or nine years old when that burnt down. And it was only a couple of years

after that the Exploits Hotel burned down and ah ... the Knights of Columbus Hall burnt.

TW: Well is there anything you'd like to add?

AW: No, I can't think of nothing else.

TW: Well, I'd like to thank you very much for your time and for all of your information. I will enjoy

it.

AW: Ok, anytime. You come and see me again if you wants more.

TW: Thank you.

The End

43