Aloha Oneula and board builders everywhere

I really don't know exactly how to tell the story in a way that won't either bore people to death or inflame

them. So I am just going to ramble on about the history and hopefully everyone will ask questions and help

lead the story where it needs to go to cover the issues people have in their minds.

Let me first start with one simple clear statement:

I have never turned in any backyard surfboard makers on the North Shore or anywhere else.

Now a second statement:

I don't think that there is anything wrong with someone turning in a backyard board builder who is

operating in a manner that is distruptive to the neighborhood?

Now some overview and soon the history

Communities need to function harmoniously and neighbors need to be happy and content with one another.

So, long before I or any of you were around, responsible people who were sensitive to the needs of each

other, agreed upon certain rules and guidlines so that large groups of people could live together in harmony.

Among these rules they created a thing called Zoning. So that certain kinds of activites would be

concentrated in aeas of similar activity. This was done for purposes of health, safety, economics, general

efficiencies and confort of the people involved etc.

The primary issue in the case of back yard surfboard making is that it puts an "industrial" zoned use into a

"residential" zoned neighborhood. On the North Shore the problem often gets reported as a "health" issue"

due to dust, noise and noxious fumes. But the underlying law concerns the "land use" issue or zoning. If the

activity is not permited in a residental zone then it is not allowed there and can be stopped if complaints are

made. Surfboard making is considered an "industrial" zoned activity for fairly obvious reasons.

After zoning issues come building issues. That is, determining if the construction of the structure is suitable

for the kinds of activities that are taking place within the facility. These laws primarily concern themselves

with issue like flamability, access to the building and its rooms, electrical sources, air quality, etc.

After zoning and building issues the particular use of the structures requires that it meets certain health

codes. Like noise, air quality, waste disposal etc. I even have to have permits for the compressors. To

insure that they are safe and the air tanks won't explode.

Then there are the work space and condition issues that people like OSHA deal with regarding the safety

and confort of the employees. Tools, machines, lighting, noise levels, etc, etc.

Then there are all the basice employment laws like, minimum wages, health insurance, workmans comp,

temporary disability, unemployment insurance, social security and taxes.

Society has choosen to function within these laws and rules and when people don't they are often busted.

Surfers being a fairly independent group have never been content to settle with what "society" forces upon

them......and therein lies the problem when they decide to become surfboard makers.

So chew on those thoughts and let me know what you think. My mom is in the Hospital in an end of life

situation and I gotta go visit here this afternoon.

We will talk more later. There is plenty of good stuff to come.

Aloha Aquafiend

You are so right. Doing anything the right way is always hard. And the fewer there are willing to do it

right, the harder it is. Sometimes so hard that it isn't possible to do the right thing. In that case one has to

find something else to do or sacrifice their integrity. America has been historically amazing in this case.

That is why we don't have sewage running down the gutters of the cities like they do in Denpasar Bali. We

tend to do it right no matter what the personal cost. And when we can't, we do something else rather than

spin our wheels doing something wrong and never reaping the proper rewards or eroding the existing

standards. We just choose something different that we can do legitimately and change the world in the

process. We aren't perfect...... but we are very different then most of the world.

So on with the saga.

When I came to the North Shore I made boards in the Church at Waimea Bay with Bob Haakenson and

David Grimes.. It was abandoned. The caretaker let us use it. And gave us raw milk every day from his

cows grazing in the area. The North Shore was a much different place in those days. Butch VanArtsdalan

was my neighbor. Lightning bolt had just started up and we were glassing boards for them and others.

There was no Clark Foam warehouse. Wiley Artman had a few blanks at his house and that was about it!

The socially negative aspects of Backyard surfboard making wasn't even an issue as there were only a very

few people making boards back then. (There are probably well over 100 back yard builders on the North

Shore now.) And everyone needed boards and there were no reasonable alternatives. And there was a lot of

open space, which doesn't exist now. I also did some sanding for Tim Cousins at his shop across from

Sunset. Tim later did Forgotten Island of Santosha with Roger Yates.

I was never a backyard board builder by choice or by mentality. Though I don't frown on those who are,

just because they are. I have no beef with the Backyard industry. Making your own boards, etc. When in

Oregon with Tillamook Head 1969 we had a legit location in an old Gas Station. Later Evergreen had an

industrial building in a properly zoned area.

I worked for Hobie in their legit factory and when I wound up in Hawaii I wasn't planing to get heavily into

the board building here. In fact, I had a house rented in Bend Oregon with my friend Randy Barna to go

skiing later that winter. I just came to surf Pipeline a bit and then go skiing.

After being in Hawaii awhile and realizing that board building was likely going to be my income

source.....I began looking seriously for some kind of legit space to make boards, only to discover that there

wasn't any zoned industrial property on the North Shore.

Steve Walden, who had owned Dyno Glassing in Huntington, had recently moved to Hawaii and was

Living at my house were I had a converted carport into a 3 room shop. This was across from the Chevron at

Rocky Point. Reno's shop was next door. We began looking together for some kind of facility, even

considering going to Honolulu. We even looked at the building, that years later Town and Country

eventually went into in Pear City Industrial Park.

I remember around this time a story circulating that George Downing was turning in all the North Shore

backyard builders. Little did I know that I would some day it would be my name associated with a similar

rumor.

My neighbor bought that house out from under me while I was in Japan. I came back to discover the rent

was raised and at that rate it was better for me to own. So a friend that made fins at Three Tables, was into

real estate and I found a friend with a house to sell at Log Cabins, that I could afford. But it was a wreck

and wouldn't even qualify for a loan. I bought it on contract and fixed it up enough to qualify for the loan.

I was on track with a rezoning project in Haleiwa by then and expected to have a legit shop built within

about 8 months. So, I built a small shop in my back yard at the newly purchased house. I was so sure it

would only be for a few months that I built the walls and roof from quarter inch plywood. The thing shook

like a hula dancer! By this time my popularity was getting international exposure and Japan and the

mainland was seeking boards. I had orders of about 100 boards per week and a funky little shop that could

do no better then 20! I had the tiger, called success, staring me right in the face and no way to cage it! Or

reap the proper rewards from years of hard work.

8 years later…. the zoning etc began to come to pass!!!

Was I a backyard board builder?.......Hell yes! Were my neighbors bummed out.... Never! My shop was

spotlessly clean and many never even knew I made boards there. Of course it only had other houses near it

on one side.

As you can see, while I was a full on backyard board builder.....this wasn't ever my desire nor was it a

statement or rebellion against any social authority. My business was just growing up in a community that

hadn't properly planned for guys like me and the associated needs. I remember back at this time the Sunset

Beach Community Association doing a survey about bad things that needed to be fixed on the North Shore.

Backyard surfboard building came up #3 on the list. Just under drug dealing, if I remember right.

There has always been great confusion among backyard builders here regarding the communities

acceptance of them. And I have been told by many new arrivals of backyard builders, that they "are just

doing it in the tradition of the North Shore." From their perspective I totally understand their sense that

backyard board making is some kind of grandfathered in right of everyone who wants to arrive on the

North Shore and be a cool surfboard building dude. But fact really is, that most people here just want to

live in peace and quiet in the country and don't want to hear planers whining, smell resin or get itchy

sanding dust on their laundry drying in the normally clean air of the tradewinds.

Enough for now....

As I contemplated building ProGlass my surfboard factory, the original design was for it to be primarily a

factory for producing my boards. The main reason for building it was to get myself out of the backyard rut

and to correct the personal moral issues associated with it.

With this in mind I figured that other people, especially Christians would, would be looking to correct

similar issues. So in a jesture of good will I changed my plan to include other shapers and make the facility

bigger to include more shaping rooms and more glassing capacity which could those who wanted to get out

of the backyard.

So the facility was changed to include a total of 5 shaping rooms and one room to contain a shaping

machine. I also doubled the Laminating area to include two stalls

In the early 80s I went to college and took computer science courses for a couple of years so that I could

learn the programming necessary to create a shaping machine that I had a design in mind for.

I realized that ProGlass could have negative effects on the backyard board building community on the

North Shore. And many Christians were deeply involved in that scene. So I approached the leadership in

my Church, to inform them of what I was planning and bring them up to speed on the impacts it might

have. Including the fact that I would likely become somewhat unpopular in some peoples minds and that it

would be nice to have the Church’s understanding.

I never planed on turning in any backyard factories nor felt there would be a need. I wasn’t planning on

getting business from those areas. But I did recognize that there would likely be a whole lot of rumors and

turmoil that would arise and I wanted the church leadership to be aware of that. Especially since many

church members were in the underground board making community. The Church leaders requested that I

not turn in any backyard businesses and that they would step in if there any problems were to arise between

me and other members. One of the leaders at that meeting was……lets call him AA. He specifically said

that when two sheep meet on a narrow trail that one gets down and lets the other one walk over him. And

that that should be the way I handled any conflict. I agreed. Little did I know then that AA was going to be

building a factory to directly compete with mine and that he would be doing it all without permits!

It took a year to get the permits on the building and almost a year for the permit process covering the

interior of the building. By that time I think they forgot a lot of what went down at that meeting,

Next chapter will bring the story closer to the players, betrayals and the beginning of turmoil

I don't think that there is anything wrong with someone turning in a backyard board builder who is

operating in a manner that is distruptive to the neighborhood? "

Can you please define "disruptive" and who would determine if a shop was disruptive or not?

Assuming the activity of surfboard making was not allowed by law in the Neighborhood, the neighbors

being offended would be the ones with the right to choose. Since it is only by their grace that the activity

would be tollerated anyway. The backyard guy would be the one in the glass house and should do

everything in his power to make sure the neighbors don't want to throw stones at it.

If the activity was legal, then there are laws and rules regulating how offensive the activity can be to

Neighbors. In an industrial zone, of which surfboards qualify, the neighbors would likely be doing similar

activites so the chance of conflicts would be minimal. Hence, the whole reason and logic behind zoning

plans and laws.

I am assuming when you built your factory, it was the first properly permitted and OSHA approved board

factory on the N.S.

Actually it was the first on the Island. I actually had to step alot of the people in the permit process through

through the whole thing as they had never been faced with it before. To be frank. They weren't happy about

it and it was a difficult process to get them comfortable doing their jobs properly

With your stats on shaping rooms and glassing bays, it also sounds like your ability to do more boards was

also increasing."If you build it and they will come", was a calculated business risk you funded and

hopefully would pay off.

It did pay off economically. But it required too much babysitting as the staffing was always a problem. I

would train up new workers. At 80% of my standard they were already 120% of the backyard standard. So

they would get drawn off into the backyard for more pay per board and less need to hit a high standard.

More money, less stress, that was a pretty hard thing for ProGlass to compete against. Of coure they didn't

get health insurance and all the other benefits but that doesn't matter to most people. It is a government

requirement that we have to pay in Hawaii, that most surfers would do without if they could get the money

in hand instead. I just couldn't retain employees and anyone in business knows how important that is. I did

have some great ones but it never was as smooth as it should have been or needed to be to keep my

supporting it.

Based on my first assumption, all board factories on the N.S. were technically illegal prior to your shop.

Before and after.......and still to this day. Except for what is being done at the old sugar mill and most of

that, while under proper Light Industrial Zoning, the construction of the facilities there wouldn't pass other

inspections if the inspectors really were intent on making the area as safe and legal as they could. Don't get

me wrong here, I could care less. But there is a high probability that there will be a major fire there

someday. I just hope no one gets hurt.

The market share of board production was split with the current builders at that time. Your shop, with the

legality issue aside, would have been a thorn in the side for other shops due to the potential of shifting

more business to your shop.

I wasn't intending to "steal" any work from existing backyard shops. Those guys just did a few boards here

and there. I had plenty of boards of my own to do and was looking to aquire accounts like Local Motion,

HIC or others as they came available. Additionally, I was choosing the best shapers to be a part of ProGlass

and while they weren't up to potenial yet, I was willing and capable of helping them get there if they

wanted to go. That would create a lot of new boards. Sadly, I discovered that most shapers, even good ones,

really didn't know how to be successful nor did they actually want to show up and get boads shaped. This

was a big miscalculation on my part. In this I learned that a lot of people want to be famous.....but they

don't want to do the actualy work that brings the fame their way!

Besides I approached all the significant glassers like Boscoe, Reeves etc and offered them first dibs on the

jobs available. They all declined. So I flew in workers or trained them from scratch. I also approached all

the key shapers. Few took the bait. Though many gave it a fledgling try, the alure and the freedoms offered

by the backyard were unbeatable for those who were attracted to such things. It should be noted here that

the primary promoters of the rumors were not the successful backyard guys. Most of those were friends and

still are. But there is another whole tier of backyarders that are a confused mess. They found any hope of

my demise to be extremely attractive and they went after it with a vengence. When you are a loser, and

have been so for years, the last thing you want anywhere near you is anything that makes your failing life

anymore obvious. ProGlass was a class act, and would be a very critical mirror for these guys to see their

reflection in!

Why wouldn't this fact alone be sufficent for hard feelings or jealousy?

I am sure in many minds it was enough. Though I don't recall anyone complaining that ProGlass took there

accounts or work. On the other hand, it would happen to ProGlass all the time. We would get the account

going, get the board quality and volume up and then lose the account to other illegal shops.

Why , unless it stated by you, would the traditional illegal factories be worried about zoning and osha

standards if the "disruptive" definition was in place prior to your shop and after?

The backyard shop locations on the North Shore are constantly changing due to properties selling,

complaints from neighbors, guys moving, etc. The problem was that whenever anyone got in trouble and

had to move a shop or find a new location they always blamed me. I would often get calls from friends who

wanted to know if I turned them in. I remember Randy Rarrick calling and asking just such a question. I

told him is wasn't me and didn't even know it had happened. He accepted my answer and off we went as

friends just like before. Others, just couldn't imagine that it wasn't me. Especially when..... as Randy had

also said..... "everyone was saying it was me".

I have learned alot about human nature. People judge by their own standard and assume that others think

the same way they do. So, I suppose that most of the biggest rumor spreaders were simpl people who........

if they owned ProGlass..... would have taken every advantage of it and would have turned in all the

backyard shops. Since they would have, they couldn't imagine that I didn't. There was no way to fight this.

It was entirely too logical to the dozens of losers that made up much of the backyard scene here. I don't

mean to be offensive by saying that. But if you know who the players are, then you know what I am saying

is true. Much of the backyard surf scene hovers somewhere just above the drug infessted, homeless, drifter

level. It is probably not even remotely similar to what it is in San Clemente where some guy makes a few

boards in his garage. And the neighborhood is clean, lawns are mowed and utilities are paid. Much of the

North Shore backyard scene was/is pretty scruffy and third world.

Regarding the Church leadership. This part is weird to me.

Me Too!! Still is to this day. Maybe it was because many in leadership including the Pastor used to be

backyard board builders. Maybe they still have too many unresolved demons of their own regarding thier

past conduct. Or maybe they still want to get cheap boards from their buddy who makes backyard boards.

Who knows. I don't bother thinking about it anymore. It never made sense then and still doesn't now. It

appears to be an untouchable subject in the church.

As a Christian I am sure you prayerfully sought guidance from the Lord about building your shop.

More than you can imagine.....as ProGlass was years in the making. If I hadn't been sure of the course, I

would never have done it.

I don't fully understand why your church leadership needed to be involved about potential negative impacts

on the community and church from you being successful and growing your business.

They didn't really need to be involved. But as a futurist, I could see where it would likely go and thought

they should be at least aware, if not involved in some way. They had years to turn the ship in the right

direction on this issue. But they couldn't see it or were afraid to touch the subject. It is still the same today

It seems it would be a perfect example of what the Christian ,knowing the the Lord's grace is sufficient, but

still being blessed to expand and grow in the other parts of your life. The rewards of being faithful and a

hardworker. Wouldn't this be a praising God moment for your fellow church members?

You would think so...??? It was myself and Bill Stonebreaker and a few others that started the North Shore

Christian Fellowship. To me it was a very logical progression. I may have been a bit ahead of the pack or

had the resources to achieve it, but I certainly thought that others would want to be moving that direction

also and that it would be something the church might want to encoursage. Not for my economic sake but

for the community at large and the well being of its members to be heading in the right direction.

My final observation to your very interesting post: Your wonderful desciption on how as a society we live

by laws and rules, and up to the time of your shop, the rules were being broken in regards to surfboard

manufacturing on the N.S.

They still are. And while it probably didn't matter too much 35 years ago........Rip VanWinkle has now

woken up and we gotta be moving on into the 21 Century!

There are still plenty of backyard boad builders on the North Shore, and I am sure that is the fanciful model

fixed in every new arrivals mind that they have a cool "shaping shack" on the North Shore and be a cool

surfboard bulding dude. The magazines have done little if any to promote any other version of this. Think

back......did you ever see photos or stories on ProGlass and how cool it was and cool it was to work there.

Heck no! What about the Sugar Mill. Still no coverage. Unless we promote a proper model and help fix it

in the minds of newcomers surfboard making will always be a backyard industry and never gain the respect

of the other players in the industry. Heck it was only a couple of years ago that the first board builder got

on the board of SIMA after something like 15 years!! What does that tell ya!

You state that not only you but other people, especially the Christian builders, should have the same

concerns about being legit with the shops up there. I am glad Jesus died for all my sins past, present and

future. I quess not following the rules of the State of Hawaii would be sin according to the Bible.

To be clear, I am not making this a "biblical" issue for everyone else. But as a Christian it was for me. I am

not much concerned as to what it is or was for anyone else. They stand before their own gods and have to

sort those things out for themselves. If asked I will try to help but otherwise I am not on a witch hunt nor

ever was I.

Of course those rules for me aren't about zoning and osha standards, more like speeding, jay walking, doing

tow ins at hammerheads with lower than high surf advisory conditions, surfing at Makaha when the

bacteria in the water sign is up. I quess we all in the same boat for one thing or another.

We all have our demons to hold in check. And they are all something different to each of us. Doing right is

a good thing. Sometimes it is just hard to see what that is. I am not perfect. I drive too fast, use bad words

too often, don't buy my wife flowers often enough and am often too independent. But I understand my

place in the social order of things and try to be a good neighbor, friend, father, husband and fellow citizen.

If I screw up somewhere in that process I try to be open to hearing about it. And change if need be.

Thanks again for your side of the story Bill. It's very interesting indeed!!

More is coming

Having worked for someone and been a private contractor, it was always the case where being a private

contractor was much more beneficial to me in all aspects.

I agree, being a subcontractor has many benefits. Taxes, freedom, scheduling etc. But governments don’t

prefer this form of labor compensation. It puts too much control in the hands of the individual and reduces

the governments control. Subcontractors are like an independent business with only one employee.

Pretty much all surfboard making in Hawaii had been historically done with the workers set up as

subcontractors……. That is, unless they were paid totally under the table, and many, many possibly most,

functioned that way back in the pre 90s.

When I started ProGlass, I intended to pay the craftsmen as subcontractors. There were several reasons for

this. 1 – was that it was “standard in the industry”. And was one of the primary rules the law uses to

determine if the worker was to be considered an “employee” or a “subcontractor”

If the worker is allowed to qualify as a “subcontractor” then the government can’t force the employers to

provide as many entitlements for the “employee”. Government loves to provide these kinds of entitlements

for constituents because it endears constituents to the source of the entitlements….the politicians. This

ensures that the constituents that are receiving all the entitlements provided by the faithful politicians, will

continue to vote for those same politicians. The politicians of course, scare the constituents into believing

that if any other politician were elected he would deprive the constituents of the entitlements. He sets

himself up as the Hero of the people, who he slyly positions as victims, under danger of abuse by the

“other” politicians who he makes into villains.

Why was having to hire employees versus subcontractors not an option for you Bill?

We did it as subcontractors for the first 18 months and then got busted by the labor board. This will be

covered in detail in the ongoing saga. That part is a very twisted tail!

When did the campbell industrial park factories come into play in this story??

Similtaniously. See my next post in the saga

Would you consider other factors of losing business like your shop manager was disrespectful to customers

or any other human factors that have nothing to do with "being the only legit factory on the N.S. jealousy"?

This is and always was a problem. The demands that customers would continually make on ProGlass was

overwhelming. It was also that way with the craftsmen employed. They wanted the laid back slack attitude

of the backyard shops. The wanted the pricing of the backyard shops. They wanted the emotional self

esteem perks (I call them Bubba Bucks) that the backyard lauds on each other like a big, pardon the

expression, circle jerk.

ProGlass neither could provide these things, nor did anyone here want to. It was an adult facility that was

state of the art. And could only be appreciated or fully put to use by adults. Sadly, the surf industry is

populated by many people, regardless of age that are quite juvenile in their approach to life.

The phone system was 30 stations and very costly. Everyone had an extension with hands free intercom.

Stereo was available in each room. Resin was on tap like draft beer at each work station. There was a

recycler for the Acetone. There were dozens of wall racks. There was a Janitor that took care of all the trash

and repaired all the tools. There were complete sets of tools, grinders, routers, etc. in each room. In the

store room were duplicates of every tool. And there were dozens of parts like triggers, cords, brushes etc

for each tool. Materials were in quadruplets, there was 2 of everthing. And 2 more in reserve. We never ran

out of materials that I can recall. There was never a single reason that workers couldn't hit the highest

volumes of piece work with the least amount of effort. I wanted them to be successful and if they were I

would be too.

Customers were given my legendary order printed up in their own company name and logos. They had

color coded shelves provided to keep their laminates on. Their shaping rooms were cleaned by the janitor

daily. My secretaries handled their phone calls. There was a $3,000.00 two color compier to make

duplicates of their order forms. Original to office, factory copy on board, and as many copies they

personally needed. Rush boards were copied in red. and would be completed in 24 hours. Packing and

Shipping were available. There was also free pickup and delivery. Free Parking and deals on stuff in our

retail.

Each shaping room was fully sound and temperature insulated, Cement floors were carpeted and padded,

Adjustable racks and lights. fully Air Conditioned with over 14 outlets for tools etc in each shaping room.

There was rack space to store 40 blanks in each room and the ceiling was 12'+ high. You just shaped,

opened the door, did the paperwork, grabbed a laminate and put the board in the rack 6' away! Average

delivery time was 3 to 7 days. Shaping rooms rented for $250.00 per month including everything.

What was the typical % price difference for a glassed board in your factory and

and a backyarder?

$5.00 to $10.00. Some underground guys were dirt cheap but they never got quality work done so they

weren't a real factor, but they really skewed everyone's perception of a "fair" price. The simplicity and

productivity of ProGlass was so effecient that shapers easily shaped a few more boards a week with no

more hassle. Easily making up for the small price increase. Though they never could seem to grasp this.

Neither could the workers who got a couple of bucks less per board but got 10 to 20+ per day + all their

benefits like health insurance.

I was over at a sugar mill shop 2 weeks ago. Looked like the same deal as in the 90's except they are in a

properly zoned area. It would have been a osha inspector's infraction fest if they checked it out. Has any

shop ever been fined by an OSHA representitive?

yes a few times. Not just OSHA which in Hawaii is DOSH, but other busts for other things too. Never much

teeth in them though. No one ever really changed their businesses much because of it.

Not having the proper personal protective equipment on can be up to $10,000 fines. It would seem the only

scrutiny would be on the legit shops regarding this???? Have you ever been surprised inspected??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

True the legit shops are up on the radar, not the underground ones. We were continually inspected due to

complaints. All unfounded. We passed everything, everytime. The backyard guys or someone, kept

complaining about us continually. Finally the inspectors just sort of gave up and didn't bug us anymore.

Some once complained that they had coffee every morning at Coffee Gallery and could see little silver

pieces of something floating in the air. Obviously a surfbaord guy who was referring to the particles of

glass that come off the scissors when cutting laps and such. No one else would even know of such a thing.

Of course they didn't exist over at Coffee Gallery and they weren't being blown out of ProGlass. Neither

was sanding dust. And even if some did somehow escape, you would never see them 100 yds away!

I was also audited for taxes twice. Once Federal, another time State! The Feds stayed 2 weeks in my office

digging for dirt. Never found anything. My mom was the bookkeeper then and was meticulious. My

accountant has been with me for 20 years and is awesome. As you can imagine it was insane. I figured it

would be. That is why I fought so hard to get everything to code. I knew I would be the target of every

whinner or luddite on the North Shore and needed to be prepared.

The story continues

I had a friend and fellow church member who was my polisher, that I had trained and also helped setup at

his house to polish my boards, because I was closing my backyard shop.

This guy….well call him TP, went to the developer, of the center my building is in, and tried to negotiate

my empty building right out from under me! He did this because someone had put into his head the idea

that as soon as I was up and running I was going to turn everyone in.

Now he and everyone else knew that I had worked with the developer since day one and that my building

was specifically built for me. Heck even the name of the center…North Shore Marketplace, was my idea.

Then in a strange twist of fate, I got a notice from the IRS saying that they were garnishing all TP’s wages

etc and that if I owed him anything I should send it to them. The developer was pretty naïve about the odd

characters on the North Shore, many who were trying to sabotage my project. With a little help, a copy of

the IRS document found its way into his hands and he soon discovered the kind of people he and I were

having to deal with.

TP could have been my polisher at ProGlass, and had a great job. But the desire to be a cool surfboard

building backyard dude is way to powerful. This image of success on the North Shore is deeply set in

concrete and everyone is chasing the elusive dream. The failures in this persuit are strewn all over the place

here. It is really sad. TP has since moved back to the mainland like most eventually do.

A few other fun moments. On Halloween night while we were still under construction, someone stuck a

hose inside the building and turned it on. It ran all night, filling the 5,000 sqft about 6” deep in water. It

destroyed thousands of dollars in materials and tools. Including my state of the art Canon Cameras and

lenses that where on site to document the construction. Rumors were afloat that guy from Waianai were

coming to brake my legs. The police caught someone in the parking lot with a gun late at night. One night

several shots were taken at my building. And this is all before we were really up and running!!

During construction, Gary Speece did the framing and me and a few friends did the drywall etc. Roger

Locke did the electrical. Ed Ing built the outer shell. Wayne Chun was the Drywall king and taught us all

how to hang the 20,000 sq ft of 5/8" type X fire rated dry wall that was in 4' x 12' sheets. Sadly during this

time his wife was accidently electrocuted while doing the laundry at their house in Waialua. It was

devestating. He is a wreck to this day.

At this time, I was beginning to round up a crew of craftsmen to work in ProGlass when it was complete.

Bruce Hansel was my airbrusher and had been for years. But I had closed my backyard glass shop long

before and didn’t currently have other staff members. Jack Reeves and Boscoe Burns were doing all my

glassing.

One of the Shapers that was going to be moving in and renting a shaping room was having boards glassed

in the backyard by a guy….we’ll call him GA. I approached him to become the laminator at ProGlass. He

agreed and in fact, was really stoked. He also was a friend and fellow Christian, much younger with a new

and growing family. I foolishly trusted him and began sharing a lot of private details about what I was

doing and who it was all going down. He was great to talk to and we pretty much covered the whole legit

glass shop thing from top to bottom. Dreams, ideas, plans he learned everything from me. He also had a

friend that we will call ES who signed on to be the fin and hotcoater.

Tom Mayo, now a custom knife builder, was a long time North Shore glasser. I tought him how to Sand

Boards. His shop was in the pipeline house back in the early 70s, pre Cort Gion. Later he had a shop in

Wahiawa, that did all the Local Motion boards. It burned down, along with several other nearby shops. So

he then ran the new facility for Local Motion out in Kailua. But he was very unhappy there, and began to

negotiate with another member of my church (we’ll call him KB) for space in he had in his warehouse in

Cambell Industrial Park. KB wanted to set up a small one man operation in a corner of the warehouse and

just do a few boards and have a simpler life. Unbeknownst to me, AG was also talking to KB and was

mooching in on the plans that Tom Mayo was making with KB for a small glass shop in his warehouse. KB

new nothing about surfboards or the industry and didn’t surf. He was from way inland on the mainland

some place. Apparently, GA convinced KB who was a successful contractor, to financially back a large

glassing facility to be built in his excess warehouse space.

KB being a contractor and a leader of my church was someone I had gone to, a couple of times, for advice

on the construction of my new facility. He was also the person that I earlier called “AA”. And was the

person that months earlier had said at the leaders meeting to me that if someone was to have a competitive

business that was operating illegally, I as a Christian would have to lay down on the trail and let the other

guy walk over me.

So behind my back KB and GA were plotting a duplicate of my facility and were rushing headlong to

complete theirs before mine. Tom was being unwillingly pushed along as that was the only way he could

preserve some version of his original plan and get out of the Local Motion facility in Kailua which had

become….well, …… it was really bad over there.

I was about two weeks from starting the glassing in ProGlass. Shapers were already shaping and we had

about 70 boards shaped up and waiting for the final touches to the Glassing room. Suddenly I got a

mysterious call from KB, who asked if he could come over and talk. This was a huge surprise as I didn’t

know him very well and rarely spoke to him socially. Keep in mind that I still knew nothing about the plans

that KB and GA were bringing to pass. They were obviously keeping it a tightly guarded secret. Gee, I

wonder why?

Ok, I am typed out for now…….more soon!

Mahalo Bill

must be hard reliving some of this hope it's helpful to you in some way too.

It is not hard or emotionally trying. But it is water, long under the bridge for me and it is tedious to

remember all the facets of the story and retell it. Keep in mind here that I am only telling the high points

and only covering about 30% of the info on people, events and outcomes. Each event is only the "home

page" for a whole flow charts of subsequent events involving dozens of people. For example the person

GA, in the story, wound up getting a divorce and moving to the mainland. He never reaped any benefit

from creating LH. He wound up being nothing more than an employee there. Additionally, he also got into

some slightly offbeat church doctrines and split from the NSCF along with TP and others. They tried to

start a new chuch but it failed. So spiritually, economically, and socially his world tanked big time. I don't

revel in his failures nor did I ever wish such outcomes on him. Like I said before, I liked the guy. But I

have to admit that there is a certain kind of comfort in knowing that life can deal out a pretty steep penality

to those straying out of proper social bounds. Sometimes justice happens quickly. Sometimes it takes a long

time. But justice will be served.

Jim old me KB's place might going out of business soon because of some note problems due to the chinese

stuff coming in. But I always thought he got started because he put in the first KKL machine.

The KKL machine came much later. Of course I had already built my facility to house a machine and was

in the process of moving in that direction. GA knew this. After all the other copying and stealing of ideas

and visions. It was no surprise to me that with the finacial backing they had that they just went out and

bought a machine. This pretty much nixed the idea of me continuing to build one, as one machine could

easily keep up with the volumes needed if managed and run properly. As could one well run glass shop.

Cutting up the pie in too many pieces makes all the pieces suffer unless you can find a way to grow the pie

itself.

KB was the financial backer, owner and a force in the creation of LH. The original thread of interest was

inspired by Tom Mayo's desire for a small one man shop. GA pumped that tiny dream all up on steroids

using my ideas and convinced KB that it was the chance of a lifetime. The manager of LH that most of you

know of, came a little later when KB realized that surfboard factories are nearly unmanageable entities and

that he had essentially created a monster. Not the cool dream that GA had sold him on.

Also, in the story as told so far....the original location of LH was not in the same building they are in now.

More interesting dirt to come regarding that.

As far as quality, other than some custom George Ku stuff, I haven't seen anything that would pass a

standard squeeze test that a ProGlass would but I'm sure that doesn't matter to the other 80%..

Thanks. We did great work, primarily because the guys I had were personally trained by me and were great

craftsmen on their own. Becasue of that I was able to deliver production boards that had a very "one off"

quality to them as the techniques used were the best. No skimping on quality because the laminator or

others were poorly trained and full of their own dysfuctional techniques.

As far as personal danger you are more apt to go to prison for tax evasion or drug dealing at a federal

level than anything else so I hope you are definitely off their radar screen. Some of my best friends are IRS

and Treasury agents or IRS prosecutors and as an old retired FBI agent I once worked for told me, they

never give up on a case even when they die, it just gets passed on to the next generation to work when

there's time or a change in priorities. Luckily for many there's always bigger fish to fry.. And yes there's

some nasty folk living in the valleys of the westside who only come calling when asked. I'm glad nothing

came of that as well.

One of the common things about human nature is that it judges by its own standard. So the guys wanting

someone to "break my legs" think because they feel that way that the whole world also does. This of course

is not true. In fact, the guys they would hope would break my legs, were quite likely old, dare I say friends,

who would have been more endeared to me than then the rumor mongers could have imagined. I have

many trusted friends and supporters, of which many of them are, how can I say it......"colorful characters"!

And there are many more of them, then the group of outspoken, vacuous, rumor mongers would ever know

or understand even existed.

Interesting read so far. Seems anyone who steps up to do something different (better) gets the same

treatment in the grand sport of surfing. So sad that many times things have to be so small minded and petty.

Bill, as a Christian don't you wonder how other Christians somehow see basic dishonesty as an acceptible

way to live their lives? Right here in your story ........ gee ..... haven't they ever read the book?

I am far from perfect, but I think I have that honesty thing in order. And yes, I am amazed at how many

people seem to struggle with it. I think two things keep me honest. 1. My God is big enough to get me what

ever I need, so I am not much motivated to cheat or lie to get a little extra, cause I never feel like my God

has short changed me. 2. I have been blessed with a resouceful character and very little fear of charging

forward. (Some might call this a big ego, Ha!) Consequentialy, I seem to always find a way to get what I

need without resorting to sketchy practices.

To be safe here... If anyone feels I have ever betrayed them, please speak up so I can clear the air or make

up for it if I have errored.

Too bad you couldn't have all the players involved perspective.

I agree. I welcome their comments. The players know exactly what they did and how they did it. I couldn't

even tell the story with an evil twist if they hadn't done it that way. There would be nothing to tell. At the

time it was very clear to all what happened. No confusion really. You will get a better sense of this in

chapters to come. The story is a long way from over

Holding your cards close to your chest to make a decision is not dishonest.

Agreed, but the betrayal was GA continuing to pretend for months that he was going to be my laminator

and all the while bleeding me for info, knowing full well he wasn't going to be working for me at all. And

that he was soon opening a competitive shop that had the possibility of destroying the viability of my whole

10 year project. He knew exactly the ramifacations of what he was up to. But the dream of having his own

version of ProGlass overwhelmed his integrity I guess. He was young and so wrong as it was it was

somewhat understandable. But for KB who was a middle aged adult with a successful business and a leader

in the church, his actions were inexcusable. Not that anyone can't open a competitive businesses if they feel

the need. But in a small community with limited accounts available and a tightly nit church, for him to have

not been up front about the whole thing was really deceptive. And the deception wasn't to protect their

project from anything I could do. It was to hide their conduct both from me an other and the building dept.

It all sounds like intellectual property is what was at stake here. Loose lips sink ships?

Yup, I screwed up. But these were much tighter relationships then I can easily communicate here. And you

have to remember......I didn't even have the slightest clue that anyone else was looking to open a contract

glass shop. Especially not anyone in my church or people that were looking to be employed in my shop and

were seemingly waiting faithfully for opening day!

This put me in a very vulnerable position as I was finally getting to speak openly about ProGlass.

Something I had had to keep silent about for years for fear of someone stealing the location out from under

me.

Still sound like Bill had a leg up in the race. The N.S. is not convenient for the town shops. Campbell

industrial seems to be the perfect location for that part of the island??

I couldn't shake a mans hand in agreement and back out in it. I am not sure that ever happened here.

Assumptions of agreements may have been thought, were any written agreements broken?

No written agreements but clear enough agreements that I could never have hired some else and dumped

GA. He had a new wife and new baby. Same age and friends of my baby girls. Even if I fully informed GA

I couldn't have done it. Besides I wanted him to have the job, To compare, what he did to me, he had quit

and didn't inform me till after he had gleaned all the information he needed and then he only told me at the

very last moment before I needed him to start work. That part of the story is in the upcoming chapter.

This island is plenty big enough for three major glassing factories and 100+ backyarders. Until all those

imports starting coming that is.......

It wasn't back in the late 80s. I was sweating bullits about having enough consistent blank flow to keep the

enlarged version of the factory going. As it turned out we had enough work but when I found out LH was

coming on line it was pretty scary as to where the blanks were going to come from for two large contract

shops. Even though enough blanks were there, it terribly depressed the pricing structure and that put a big

dent in my business plan. And LH was giving away shaping rooms. Where mine were $250.00 per month.

They were a hungry monster that wasn't backing off for even a second.

They were hell bent to do it regardless of me. They didn't go.......gee I wonder if this is going to crush Bill's

dreams and destroy his shop. If they felt that way they would have been obligated to let me know what they

were up to. And warn me about the bomb that they were about to drop on my head.

Hey Bill,

1.) Would you say that the greatest innovations/contributions to surfboard design and construction

techniques are coming from the "backyarder" or the "pro" shaper? I've always thought outside the

"envelope" and from what I've seen here on Sway's that seems to hold true for many, if not most of

us......But that doesn't necessarily translate into trend setting. But then we're still young and it remains to

be seen how this community might affect the "industry".

2.) What are some of the innovations to

A.) design, and

B.) construction techniques you see coming?......

Wow! Those are big questions Gary. They are also incredibly delicate to answer. Can we handle the

responsibility of analyzing ourselves?? Here are some thoughts on your question #1. We can talk about #2

also but please put it into a new thread as it will likely need plenty of space to grow.

#1.... The existence of a forum like this, requires a certain belief in it and the community it fosters. By that I

mean, that if backyard board builders didn't believe that what they were doing was significant or at least

relevant, they wouldn't be doing it or spending a lot of time talking about it on forums like this. To create

the feelings of significance, one has to have a way to compare themselves with others. The others, in this

case are, as you said wind up being the "pros".

Because of this human need for relevance, it is very easy for, in this case the backyard community, to begin

taking itself too seriously. Or to find ways to make the other guys, in this case the "pros" less significant.

We all know it feels good to feel significant. And it feels way better to actually BE significant. Therefore,

there is a very strong drift in a community to establish that what the community is doing is tangibly

significant. But there is an inherent problem in this and as an industrial designer you are well aware of it.

Normally, to be significant one has to be significant to others. Yet if the "others" are stuck in a rut, then

one's contributions, tho truly significant, won't be recognized as such by the "others" do to their inability to

recognize it because of the rut they are in.

There is a certain magic to finding success in spite of this dilemma. If as a designer, you are too far ahead,

you may not get wide spread acceptance of your designs. If you are too far behind you will look to be

copying or at the best not appropriately fashionable. Can you say "old school'. Ha!

Since this forum is about surfboard making, the human nature tendency will be toward a community

perception, that the surfboard making taking place in the community be superior to that done in other

communities. Hence, your question.....rephrased by me....... Who is more significant.....Us or Them?

I am not sure if it is safe, when in the "us" community, to even try to determine who wins that contest.

I suppose it comes down to how we judge success. More money? More hot riders riding our boards? More

units sold? More fame? Who came up with the idea first? Who got it working first? Who made it more

popular? Quality of life? Who is having more fun? Or simply who has the most self esteem and character,

regardless of the aforementioned standards of judgment.

If we get clear on these issues and why we do what we do anyway and then get comfortable with who we

are in the game and what role we play, then maybe we can begin to analyse what design elements really

matter and where they came from. But I am afraid that rarely are people comfortable enough in the roles

they play that they can honestly consider such things without emotions getting out of control.

Tell me about some recent innovations/contributions that you are aware of that came from the backyard

guys? Some I mean that have made it to the mainstream.

Thanks Daddio for the thoughts regarding my mom's passing.

All is well

But I have a question Daddio. Are you really serious about your quote above. Do you honestly think that

Zoning restrictions are designed to subjugate the "little" guy?

I was thinking that they are there to protect the little guy from the "Rich" guys who could otherwise

overrun their homes and neighborhoods turning them into industrial hell holes, were it not for the zoning

laws against it.

Aloha Daddio

I have no desire to raise a fuss either.

I understand your cynical outlook on the zoning process. Perfection in human governments simply doesn't

exist, so lighten up a bit. Living life as a victim under a represive government is not a healthy view of how

things are.

You may recall in the Barnfield/Backyarders thread, I did get zoning changed to build a legal factory were

there previously was none. It was far from easy but it did happen eventually. Sadly, the enemies it created

were much bigger and more vicious then the slow moving sluggish governmental entities that initially held

it back.

Government is what we make it, while understanding that it will never be perfect or be able to serve

everyone with equal outcomes for their lives. Nor should it. It is a very fluid monster that drifts were it will

unless it is guided and controlled as best as possible by good people for good reasons. The best we can

hope for is reasonably equal opportunities for all. If the opportunities to take a stab at success are available,

then the measure of success one acheives, will be in the hands of that individual where it ought to be. And

their success will be relative to the efforts they are willing to invest to improve their personal outcomes.

Most every surfboard maker I know started out in the backyard or did time there. Some desire to stay there,

others don't. But I am pretty sure that you won't discover that the government has intentially placed some

huge obstical in their path that forces them to stay backyard. Nor has some secret cadre of "anti backyard

surfboard makers", created rules to foil their success or derail their dreams through zoning limitations, etc.

Falling prey to victimized thinking like is extremely dangerous.

Nuisance laws are ok, but I can tell you from personal experience (crazy neighbors) that they are virtually

worthless without greater foundational laws underneith them. Nuisance law issues, quickly degenerate into

personal clashes between neighbors that become civil lawsuits or produce violence ending in criminal

cases.

If one knows something is bothering their neighbors..... just don't do it anymore. It really isn't all that

complicated. It would be great if mankind could be perfectly responsible with ultimate freedom, but he just

isn't capable of it. Hence the need for rules, regulations, laws and penalties for not obeying them. I don't

think anyone has created a better system anywhere else. So in spite of the frustrating restrictions on me

being able to do what I want, when I want and how I want..... I am cool with it.

There is a certain kind of "product maturity" that all products eventually mature to. Surfing is experiencing

that now in spades.

All through the 90s mountain bikes were exploding with ingenuity and creativity. Full suspension bikes are

an absolute wonder and result of this. But they have also slowed way down as they are approaching

"product maturity".

There was a time when the common household utensils were probably going to revolutionary change. Now

a fork is a fork pretty much werever you find one. It is a sad thing for cool stuff to "hit the wall" like that

but it is pretty normal really.

There may be some unrecognized paradigm shift hiding just around the corner that will reenergize the

whole thing. But I am not terribly optimistic about it.

Those who think they are pressing the edge of the envelope are all just rehashing old designs and calling

them something new. Even Hollywood is struggling to find new material. They are rehashing old movies

right and left. Where are the contemporary CS Lewises, JR Tolkens. Were are the brave producers that will

take on these projects and deliver us something really new.

If you follow surf history, you will notice the best surfers emerge from places where the surf scene is

exploding but the crowds haven't ruined the ability to catch a lot of waves and get good. Eventually each

area, matures, gets crowded and the rapid progression that birthed from their dies off.

The way the scene is now. I am not sure there is a true demand for better equipment. Even if there were

some clear directions to head in to make the better boards. It will take a big leap to make the changes

obvious and the results compelling. At the moment there isn't anyone willing to commit the big bucks to

making it happen.

Give me a 1 million dollar per year budget and a 6 year contract. A semi truck outfitted with shaping room

and glassing room. Give me a trainer, a video crew, and 6 to 10 top 100 surfers. And all expenses paid

around the Pro Tour for all, and I will give you at least 4 surfers in the top 10 in 3 years and 2 World

Champions within 6 years. I will progress boards were they need to go to beat the other guys and train the

surfers how to out surf the competition riding them.

Even if we don't hit the steller goals set. The show will be a marketing wonder, such that no one could miss

it or talk about it. And if it is successful in that manner every other sponsor will have to anti up and get in

the game. But the first sponsor in will hold all the cards for a couple of years.

what "innovations" stood out from that period , in your mind ?

Aloha Ben

That was such a fast moving and crazy time that I don't think it is possible to really pin anything down. It

was jumping all over the place.

There was hardly any clear line between failures and successes. Everything was an experiment. As fast a

boards changed surfers changed more. There wasn't any rights or wrongs. Only what was being done and

the wrongest thing you could do was to sit back and wait......as you would be behind within a few days.

I can't think of any specific innovations that really stood out or survived till today. What the time really was

about was not what was created, but what was learned. And that has spilled over into todays boards. A lot

of foundational stuff was learned. But not everyone "got it"

....are they still used ["mainstream"] today ?

The previous era of longboards had become very matured and many were makng boards without

understanding much of the technical dynamics that brought them to that point. They just began whitteling

until it looked like a surfboard! Surfers in general weren't that good as the fad was exploding so almost all

boards worked good enough.

Even good surfers were riding boards that were way to long, heavy and thick. These boards couldn't really

be manouvered. So surfers created "poses" that were considered to be manouvers. We all patted ourselves

on the back and said, "nice quasimoto" or "soul arch". As we all trimmed along straight, on these huge logs.

Someone remind me later, when I have more time, to tell you about why we all began riding such huge

boards.

were they mainly "backyarders" then , "innovating " ?

Yes, the bigger companies were totally caught off guard. Hobie would make boards all winter and stockpile

them for summer. We got caught with a bunch of boards that wouldn't sell cause everyone wanted

Shortboards. Also the marketing model was to pump a design in the spring and sell it all summer long. In

the shortboard revolution, there was no "correct" design to promote in advance of summer. The big guys

did anyway and lost huge credibility among surfers who were flocking to smaller companies that made

custom boards on the spot like we did at Tillamookhead Surfboards.

Consequentially, small customer shops and backyarders had a huge advantage and since there wasn't any

way to recognize a "right" board, anything anyone made was pretty much acceptable. But don't discount the

overlap between skilled guys making backyard boards that also worked for big companies. The lines have

never been very clear and as such the whole argument has a hard time being discussed as the language is all

screwed up. No one really knows who the "real" board makers are.

Fact is, there is always a bad enough surfer that can become the team rider for a bad enough board builder.

So it is like a bubble, in a bubble, in a bubble, etc.

When you are in a bubble, you tend to think that yours is the only "real" world. Kind of like Truman, in the

Truman Show. As long as everyone believes somewhat the same, it is a very safe place to be and everyone

will be happy. But when someone begins to see the world differently, or surf or shape too good for that

bubble, then they have to move out into a new more acceptable bubble and the people in the old bubble

have to quickly repair the rip that this creates in their bubble before everyone, in their bubble, discovers

that their bubble is not really representitive of reality.

This is why repressive governments, organizations and activities always shield their people from outside

information. Of course, to get away with this, they have to convice their people that the outerworld is

dangerous and they are only shielding them from it for their own good. Sadly, people fall for this all to

easily. Hence the proliferation of repressive regimens, rather than democracies. Thank God for the freedom

of the Internet were they cannot prevent people from finding truth.

Who were the main "pros" at that time ? ...Brewer ? ....who else ?

You mean shaping "pros"? I don't think I want to go there. This was a very confused time. Big shops had

people they had invested in and had big names. Often deserving every respectful alocade. And shops also

had hacks that were production guys that didn't understand board dynamics and were at a loss when the

revolution went down. They made boards but were guessing all the time. Of course even the good guys

were guessing about 50% of the time so the gap wasn't too obvious. Just hard to say who the "real" shapers

were.

Maybe everyone can pitch in here and help create a list of shapers that were active at that time. Good, bad

or otherwise.

Ryan Dotson

Brewer

Diffenderfer

Bob Cooper

Mike Turkington

Phil Edwards

Yater

Etc... fill in the blanks.

Bill,

I'm not entirely sure I agree with your take on surfboards not changing in the future (a surprise to many

here, I'm sure!).

Aloha Greg, I thought you might weigh in on my comment.

There are some real advances available today in both materials and design that just haven't made it to

mainstream yet.

Now I get to disagree! Ha!

But let me first affirm that I love new cutting edge things like, technology, out of the box thinking and just

plain old cool stuff! That is why I am typing on a Macintosh G5, Dual 2.5 with 23" flat panel monitor and I

race Downhill bikes that cost $8,000.00.

I don't think these things you mention or are talked about on Swaylock's are necessarily "advances" at all.

And they aren't even really very new.

In the June 1980 issue of Surfer Magazine there was a small article on me in the People Who Surf section.

In it I was riding a 6'4" Round Pin, Single Fin. That board was glassed with a combination of fiberglass and

2oz Kevlar! You could hit it on the rail extremely hard with a 2x4 and all it would do was shatter the gloss

coat!

Pre 1970 I was using CAP (chemically Activated Polyester). At Hobie in 1970 I was involved in our

"hollow board" experiments, using honeycomb shells in conjunction with WAVE. Roger Adams, team

rider for SurfJet and I were good friends during their forray into the molded hollow surfboard business. 20+

years ago, I was involved with Mickey Ito in a company building sailboards in Japan that was using the

same basic process that Surftech is now using. In fact, I remember telling Randy French about it and the

foaming epoxies we used back when he was still making Aqua Toys. His solid styrofoam boards with no

skin long before Surftech.

I have built tons of racing paddleboards out of EPS & Expoxy. Gobs of Sailboards and even several 13' x

36" Fish boards (unique to Hawaii maybe) out of Extruded Polystyrene and epoxy. I have even built race

cars. See photo.

I have a sophisticated pnuematic vacuum pump, peel ply, rolls of carbon, kevlar, ect and always keep some

epoxy on hand. I am an expert in the use of Imron & Cronar, and was using waterbased acrylics from

Vanex before most even knew such things existed. When I requested Synthetic Precipitated Silica, from

PPG, they freaked out because no one was supposed to know about it yet! I even have long lengths of

unidirectional extruded fiberlass called CAP strip (often used to make archery bows) that I experiment with

for stringers, power rods and strength spars.

Using a totally clear, non abrasive finish I surfed a whole winter without any wax on the deck of my boards

without slipping off even once. For all you "wetted surface" believers, I used a hydophlic coating on my

boards that made them slipperier then a slimy fish, but the slime wouldn't rub off and was only slimy when

wet. My friend has a patent on 3 dimensional reiforcing fabrics. I know you are saying what the heck is

that?!

I have watched, listened, tested, tracked and experimented with just about everything out there that has

come along. I would love to find that magic formula that would change the surfing world forever, but it

ain't here yet. I have ideas of what it is and will be, but until my patents are approved, I ain't talking!

I am not saying I couldn't make a great board, with some of these materials. But relative to the costs,

performance and consumer demand, there just isn't a market yet.

Every other high performance piece of sports equipment is using these technologies. Only surfing lags

behind in the past. Only surfboards are still being built with cheap, inferior materials.

True but that doesn't make our products bad or the industry particularily backwards. It just means it is

sensitive to its consumer base. and is responding appropriately. Remember that most who buy boards are

kids. Boogie boards also use old technologies and materials, but the consumer base is quite happy with

them......why? Because children aren't very demanding.

There is so little effort being put forward toward industry advancment and the "leaders" appearently

haven't the time to contribute (takes too much time away from counting their money).

Now Greg you know that isn't true or even fair. Very few people are getting rich making and selling

surfboards. They are just responding appropriately to market pressures. There isn't anything sinister about it

at all. If Kelly Slater begins to demand the kind of boards you are proposing, there will be a well worn path

to his door from people ready to supply him, including Al Merrick!

Fact is, the promises of these boards haven't manifested itself where it matters. This isn't a conspiricy of the

"leaders". Assuming these boards really work better it is a marketing failure of those promoting the boards.

Either that or Kelly is too stupid to realize what is available and isn't winning 30% more often, on them

because of it. Or..... it could be a huge "reality distortion" on the part of the guys wanting their exotic

material boards to become mainstream. Maybe the boards don't really offer the substantially compelling

improvements that they believe they do and must have to be honestly marketed properly and improve their

desirability.

Many of us involved for many years in alternative materials just can't believe that it hasn't changed but the

resistance to making better product within the industry is ridiculous. It's hard to make progress when these

"top shapers" are making money on the rapid deterioration of the product they build and the fact is that

they don't want change.

As I clarified, I have been "involved" in alternative materials for years also. But I don't think yours is a fair

analysis. I understand that it is very frustrating to you and others who see a future that others either don't

see or won't except. But it isn't the stubornness of me or other shapers. Get someone of significance riding

the boards and winning contests on them and saying they will never go back and they owe it all to the new

'XR5-Z Super Exotic Technologies and there will be a flood of customers coming to your door. Shapers

aren't holding back this flood anymore than the oil companies are holding back those new 100 mile per

gallon spark plugs!

Besides most shapers don't even glass, and most don't even shape the boards that have their names on them.

It is no skin off their butts regarding what foam or resin the board is made out of. As long as the profit

margins look good and the product is popular, they will endorse and promote it.

I know that looking forward is harder than looking back and the surfboard industry has become anamored

with looking back. But the fact that todays surfboards are being built with WW2 technology when there are

vastly better choices available speaks to me of a real lacking within the industry. They aren't even trying.

Just because those looking forward don't embrace the same vision of the future you and others do Greg,

doesn't mean they aren't forward thinking or are blind to a future you find so obvious.

Like I said before, when you are selling products to children the kinds of issues you are trying to, up sell

with, just don't matter much. That is why WalMart sells 15 million crappy bicycles a year and Speciality

Bike shops sell under 5 million better ones. The problem isn't the manufacturers, it is the consumer. They

don't find themselves needing better bikes, at the price it costs to get one.

There are consumers that are mature enough to recognize a difference. That is why Surftech has been a

success with baby boomers that are 40-50 years old. But those consumers don't need and aren't looking for

a 3 pound styrofoam/epoxy 6'2" x 18" x 2". If there is no market to consume the product, you can't

profitably produce the product. Elite athletes, be they cyclists, surfers, snowboarders, etc are a very tiny

niche of any activity and will never purchase enough product to support that industry. The product has to

have broader appeal. And that is either a marketing issue or a lack of market issue. In the future, boards

may change, but not until someone effectively addresses this issue and creates the customers that can then

be fed the product.

It must have been a "free" period [in a way] in terms of design ....

When [roughly what year?] would you say rails , rocker , outline and lengths became appropriate to the

waves surfed ? [And ceased being mal-like rails and designs ?]

I think they always were. What I mean is... relative to surfers abilities and knowledge of the designers. All

good boards were right on the cutting edge. But that doesn't mean they weren't junk a few days later, when

more knowledge was available or surfers had progressed past the capabilities of those designs

I think that the very early 70s (other than long board era) was the first time that boards, waves and surfers

began to get in close harmony. But it was a really hit or miss kind of black art. Once I established my

"Measurement Controlled Shaping" techniques in the mid 70s things began to progress really fast as the

boards could be accurately repoduced and evolved to keep at better pace with the demands of the surfers.

In Australia , it seems amusing how everyone wanted Gerry Lopez Pipeline model pintails to surf ...in 1'

onshore Sydney and perth beachbreaks ??

Ha! That's a good one! To be clear though those boards were absolutely insane in big Pipeline and Gerry

was the Master of both the boards and riding them. That Late TakeOff Surfer Mural of me from the early

70s was on a 7'6" Lopez he shaped me. It had double 4 oz and it had a hand sanded 600 grit finish! Long

before most of the world knew what a sanded finish board was. I sure wish I had that board now. What a

classic it would be! I do have an 8'0" Pipeliner that was the last one I shaped for myself before multi fin

boards came storming in. It is in perfect condition and hangs in my store. Only me and Tom Carrol ever

rode it. It has seen some insane tubes from serious business view! Ha!

[but then , I'm also mindful of how around 1991 , EVERYONE here at my local beach was floundering on

almost under 2" thick , banana rockered toothpick sliver boards , because that's "what Kelly " [and maybe

one or two others ..Shanes Herring and Powell ] "were riding" .Took people a while to see how limited

those boards were in average fat beachbreaks .

That problem still exists, but people are getting smarter.

Back to the Glassing room......I gotta lay up the other side of that Blue tanker

Aloha to you, Bill. No hurry, just kidding. BTW, here's a gun I shaped in 1997 out of your Clark 8' 6" (is

that right?). Great blank, in my memory. Thanks for everything, Bill.

Aloha balsa

Thanks for the compliment. I think that blank was an 8'4B. Funny thing about my original run of blanks I

did for Clark. The first one was the 7'9". That blank sat at Clark for months because they were afraid to

mold it. They felt it was way too thin!

How things have changed! I never really wanted to do blank plugs I just wanted blanks that were closer to

the finished board so I could create boards that were stronger and lighter with a lot less work. Anyone who

remembers those old Brewer blanks that were, god awful thick and had huge twists in them, will know

what I am talking about. When other shapers started making suitable blanks, I was happy to use theirs and

not make any more plugs. Making blank blugs is tedious work and Clark doesn't pay a royalty for the

designs so economically, it is a big waste of time. Additionally, there are a lot of politics that come with

getting your blank/name in the Clark catalog.

When I did the 10'6" gun blank, that one got a whole bunch of heat from all the supposed cutting edge

surfers and shapers that did Waimea boards. They all thought it was, also, way too thin. And after all, they

said, "why did you have a guy like Barnfield do the plug. He mostly surfs Pipe and hardly ever surfs

Waimea. What could he possibly know?"

Luckily Clark was on track with me by that time and they only delayed that blank a little! Ha! Too be sure

all my blanks could have used more tail rocker a little while later as boards continued to evolve, but that is

why there is a custom rocker program, right!

I actually did my blanks a little slim on tail rocker so that the shaper could cut in their preferred rocker and

still leave as much of the deck intact to preserve the harder foam there. Not all shapers understand this.

Many would prefer the blank to come with the complete rocker in place. Personally, since I do primarily

custom boards, I like a little more overall room to work with to personalize the the board for the customer.

Duplicating boards in production doesn't require this so, super close tollerance blanks are suitable in that

realm.

Greg

Thanks for the great dialogue. Please don't misunderstand my intentions here. I think you are a great guy

and make great products in a field that you are an expert in. I in no way desire to demean your products or

your craftsmanship or product knowledge. And I am not making any personal judgement on you or your

products.

But to discuss why Epoxy boards aren't mainstream or why that even matters, requires speaking candidly

and openly..... even it it gets uncomfortable.

Consumer driven market? A cop out for sure here. "Well, nobody's asking for it so ......" Innovation NEVER

comes from the consumer .... EVER. Innovation comes from industry, ALWAYS.

All successful products and markets are consumer driven. The most consistently, successful businesses,

serve those markets and the consumers in them with products and services that those consumers and

markets demand. Consumers don't innovate, they simply consume. Successful businesses innovate and

create products that are just a short hop ahead of the consumers, consumption. If businesses are to far ahead

or slightly off the path the consumers will miss them regardless of how good their innovations are.

To prevent this, successful businessmen either shorten their leaps in innovations so as to not confuse the

consumers, or they use powerful marketing plans to persuade the consumers into being comfortable making

the neccessary big leaps.

Because of this, successful businesses may not appear to be the most innovative. Even when they are. It is

generally more succesful to slightly improve a widely accepted product in an existing catagory, than to try

to sell a brand new product in an unaccepted catagory.

Businessman have no problem with this. Craftsman get all tripped up in it cause they think too creatively

big and want the world to endorse their dreams.

I understand your complaints better then you probably imagine. You are a craftsman as am I. You see a

problem. You make observations and collect data regarding the problem. You make conclusions for why

the problem exists. You collect data and do research to develop solutions to fix the problem. The solution is

very obvious to you. You feel you have created wonderful solutions but they aren't widely accepted. You

can't imagine why, so you consider the data and make what seem to you to be rational conclusions for why

the solutions you have, aren't widely accepted and broadly implemented on an industry wide basis.

As a craftsman, I understand this process and the absolute seeming logic of your conclusions. But as a

businessman, I think that your conclusions for why your solutions aren't widely accepted, are incorrect. I

don't think you are so much wrong as the businessman in you is just not recognizing that there are other

equally important factors effecting the outcomes you are experiencing.

The business model is much bigger and more sophisticated than you are giving it and yourself credit for. In

your craftsman, frustration, you are overlooking some important pieces of the business model. This is

skewing your conclusions and is preventing you from tweaking your solutions so that they can be more

successful and more satisfying to you.

Like it or not we are in the BUSINESS of surfboard making. And while we would like it to be the way WE

EACH want it to be. All Businesses and industries have a life and character of their own, yet they all

respond and function according to fairly consistent patterns and rules. Recognizing this, allows us to

develop a business model specif to our business market, that will generate for us the greatest amount of

success. Understanding the window that is available for a particular kind of business to operate in and then

building a business model to maximize the potential within that window, is what it is all about.

In this lies a unique problem for business owner/managers that are also the craftsmen, artists or talents in

the business. This is way talented people usually have managers running their affairs or business.

Artistically talented people see the world differently and in ways that often doesn't recognize business

principles, that if adhered to would bring them greater success. Craftsmen/artists are often extemely

confident that their particular kind of "art" or "craft" will bring them success all on its own, if persued with

sincerity, passion and soul. It is almost like a religious truth to them. Just do right (the art or craft) and all

will work out successfully. Religiously, this may be true. But products, even ones produced with loads of

"soul" may need more then sincerity to make them broadly successful.

Craftsman and artists, tend to be very focused on the results of their craftsmenship and overlook other

necessary factors in driving a business or product to broad success. They are often unaware of or ignore the

forces that those factors can exert on the big picture, and in the end their success. Or they just don't want to

except them cause they want to continue with the craft skils and not get into the other stuff that doesn't

interest them. Like Marketing!

For example, most bike shops are started by craftsmen/mechanics who love bikes and love to work on

them. Their focus is all on the mechanical precision of the bicycle and they often overlook all the other

equally important things that make any business successful. They tend to think that if they make or sell

technically perfect or superior products that customer will come in droves. Some will of course, but

probably not enough to be hugely successful on the technical merits alone. Saavy businessmen recognize

these things and do things beyond "precision mechanics" to draw people into their bike stores. They install

espresso bars. Have lounge areas with biking videos running. Have exclusive womans sections etc. Their

competitor, who is a mechanic/craftsman, can't believe that "dorks" fall for this kind of marketing fluff.

And to compete he simply tries even harder to make his bicycles perfectly adjusted. But he slowly looses

market share and can't figure out why. He just keeps getting madder at his competitors, and their stupid,

dorky customers, who don't understand the value of his superior products.

This is that "seeing the world from your own narrow perspective thing". The craftsman thinks that all

people think like he does and are deeply focused on the technical aspects of the product. He wants the

customer to accept and buy his products on their technical merits. But in business, if you are trying to hit

high volumes, you will soon discover that very few customers actually buy on the basis of actual technical

merits or could even appreciate them anyway. Tecnincal merits may have created a buzz that got peoples

attention, but it will be the fact that the product is now fashionably cool that will casue eveyone to want to

buy one.

For example, the craftsman wants customers to know that the board is glassed with the XTR Epoxy resin

that is 15% stronger then the old XT Polyester resin. The saavy businessman just wants customers to feel

that they are buying the most socially cool products around. And will create a marketing plan to create that

belief.

So, if you want to have wider acceptence of your products but aren't getting it, you have either a marketing

problem or a reality distortion problem. Either you need to do a better job of convining people they need

the product. Or you have to stop believing that the marketplace needs your product but some villain is

preventing them from realizing it. It is one or the other.

The fact that the marketplace and the industry trend setters don't recognize the technical merits of epoxy

boards, isn't due to a huge conspiricy against them. And believing so Greg, is the real "cop out". Believing

in that, conveniently takes the pressure and responsibility off of you, as the craftsman, for why the fruits of

your craftsmanship aren't widely touted and sought after as the best. I am not saying they aren't the best.

Just that you have choosen to blame the wrong guys for the lack of success you would like epoxy boards to

have.

Now don't freak out here. I am not passing personal judgement on your abilities or acheivements. I am just

stating what you already know to be true. Epoxy boards aren't the standard, nor are they widely regarded as

better or superior enough over Polyester to gain the market share you would like to see.

This discussion is not about the veracity of your product, but rather why you aren't seeing wide spread

acceptence of what you clearly believe to be a vastly superior product well above the currently accepted

standard.

It doesn't matter the field, the problem is the same. All craftsman and artists have the same struggles. Greg I

don't know if you can see this, but you aren't selling a product. You are trying to sell a religion. And you

are asking everyone to join the church of epoxy and become believers in your cause. And maybe that is a

very good thing. I am not passing judgement. But you thoughly believe that the doctrines of the Church of

Epoxy are true and superior to the old pagan doctrines of Polyester. You want more church members but

you are blaming the wrong factors for why they aren't signing up.

Consider this. Maybe Epoxy shouldn't be mainstream. Maybe it is a very special niche of an already niched

market. If you recognize the limitations of this niche within an niche window, you can design a business

model to fully dominate that window. If you believe that epoxy will be mainstream when it won't be. You

may persue a reality distortion that will consume your life, while trying to make the impossible come to

pass, and in so doing miss the greater niche opportunity that is staring at you from the empty undeveloped

window.

The popular trend in surfboard materials is Polyester Resin, Fiberglass & Polyurethane Foam. It is not

about whether that is right or wrong or the best way to build the product. It is about the trend. When enough

consumers begin to look for something different in materials it will create a new trend. If you are lucky

Greg, you will be right at the forefront of it. Or it might jump right past you and be dirt cheap molded

boards from China that ride fantastic.

To intentionally drive the consumers prematurely out of one trend and into another, is not generally wise.

Business requires that, maximum profitability and advantage be gained from the existing trend. When it is

exhausted and no longer viable, it is time to introduce the new trend. Wise businessmen will have the new

trend already waiting in the wings.

The shortboard revolution happened from the top. Innovation from the top. It happened because

EVERYONE involved themselves in something profound. You and I both have seen the insides of plenty of

Pipeline barrels. This happened because WE made our equipment better. We were the leaders and we took

the responsibility both in the water and in the shaping room to do better. It payed off! Does this type of

effort and dedication exist today? I don't see it. I see instead six figure contracts to spoiled punks who are

simply on the take.

I'm sorry if you think that the top three manufacturers are struggling to pay their bills.

I didn't say they were struggling. I said "very few are getting rich". I think that is an absolutely true

statement. Sure some are doing great economically. But not so much that they would be inclined to throw a

bunch of money into an R&D program that wouldn't return much on the investment. They all bought

machines. They push the envelop in their own way. They just aren't validating your industry wide Epoxy

dreams Greg. And I don't understand why that bothers you.

I think everyone here KNOWS those guys are doing just fine with their bottom line and not ONE has an

R&D program like the one you outlined in an earlier post. Why not?

Because it would be well beyond the budget of even the biggest board maker. My proposal would be for

someone like CocaCola or Dodge.

You say that like they have some obligation to someone to do it. Why? Just because you would do it,

doesn't mean they have to. Besides, why should they bother. There are zillions of backyard guys doing all

the R&D for them who aren't smart enough to be pulling patents on their achievements. What a great pool

of ideas to easily pull from when needed. Is this immoral? Protect yourself if you are concerned.

Microsoft and Apple watch for the innovations from small developers and then plug the ideas into their

operating system. Sometimes they have to pay for the ideas. Often not. Nothing new here, this is the way

business happens. Don't like it.....get a patent!

I have, for 25 years. Bert has too. In fact our business IS an R&D program. We don't have the money or

resources they do and yet while so many factories have come and gone we remain, and do so while

creating new and unique product. What are we doing right and what are so many companies that strive for

mediocrity doing wrong?

"right" and "wrong". See what I mean about that religion thing. Why are you requiring some percieved

moral performance out of these big guys Greg? What do you care? They have no obligation to do what you

think is the "right" thing for them to do. If you want to do it fine. But where do you get off telling them how

to run their businesses. They aren't "wrong" because they don't do what you want them to.

Nothing out there? Are you sure?

Yes I am sure......for now. This is like that argument I hear all the time about some undiscovered surfer that

is as good as Kelly but just doesn't want to sell his soul to the contest machine. Or that 100 mile per gallon

auto accessory. If it were there and made a big enough difference, Kelly would already be riding it. If he is

too stupid to know better, send him free ones till he can't deny the reality of their superior performance. If

he won't take them, send them to his closest competitor. If they really make a differnce it will begin to

show up and you will be vindicated.

Bill, I know your a very knowledgeable guy, much more so than most. But are you SURE you've seen and

tried EVERYTHING?

No I haven't SEEN everything but I know the industry, I know the waves, I know the surfers, I know the

materials, I know the construction techniques, I know the creative wellspring in the industry and I know my

own creative and visionary abilities. From that I can surmise what the things I haven't seen might yet be

and what things might yet be created. There are clearly some windows of opportunity that aren't being

explored well, if at all. So, could there be something other there I have missed or haven't considerd. Maybe.

Is it ripping a huge whole in the existing paradigms? Not yet. Will it do so soon..........not likely.

For 25 years we've built stronger, lighter, alternative equipment which has forced us to have a larger

consumer base than anyone else. Why have we survived while so many polyester shops are gone? Better

product!

Fantastic! Be satisfied then and give "those other guys a break" Ha!

OK, so I'm not much on marketing. Never claimed to be. I'm just a factory guy through and through. 95%

of my time is spent right here in the shop producing.

I know you are. And I probably know you better, in that sense, then you know yourself. We are classic

craftsmen. And suffer all the problems that creates.

I don't see the need to go out and smooze when I build and make the best products you can buy.

I know you don't see it. But listen to yourself. How typical is that for a Craftsmen's comment! Ha! Quality

marketing programs are necessary for everything. If you want to grow bigger and have the wide spread

acceptence that I hear you crying out for and be as successful as you deserve you will have to leave the

work floor and market your business, or stay on the work floor and hire someone else to do it.

Seems after all these years enough people end up finding me. I don't think for a minute that my long time

customers think it's any kind of "reality distortion" when they buy one of our products.

Fantastic! The reality distortion only comes into play when you say you want more and aren't getting it. In

that case either you aren't doing what is needed to make Epoxy boards the standard or they aren't capable of

holding that title. If you think they are, and they aren't, then you have a reality distortion. No shame there

really. It is just a product. If it doesn't win the award someday, who really cares! Don't take it so seriously

Not a conspiracy of the leaders? Then why do they spend so much breath on making sure change won't

happen? Just check out the media. Always just a little back handed comment to keep people in place.

Wow! Greg. I love you many, but you gotta lighten up. This is going to eat you alive. The media machine

is a monster, it will never satisfy you. You can't let in govern your life. I know this monster well. I tries to

eat me all the time too. My mind spins....Parrish got 9 pages.....while best I got was 2. Eric won shaper of

the year.... while I got accused of turning in the backyard guys. Rusty was choosen to define the ultimate

pipeline board in the ultimante Pipeline article.....I taught him....and I actually surfed there and made all the

hot guys boards. Etc, Etc.

This shit will eat you alive Greg. Take it from a veteran of these wars. The magazines are unsafe territory

and you can't go wandering around there expecting to get treated fairly. Or facts to be told straight. The

only thing cool about them is the pictures and as Jackie Baxter said long, long ago...."seeing your friends". I

rarely read the magazines, it is too discouraging.

There is no conspiricy, just a bunch of juvenile writers stumbling along who read the magazines cover to

cover and actually believe it. Actually, I thought the magazines were kind of pushing and validating epoxy

more these days.

Ya wanna have them on your side......spend advertising dollars there!

EVERYONE knows where this is going but unfortunately the industry resistance continues without a leg to

stand on.

Who is this "everyone"? Greg I gotta get you an exhorcism. The surf scene Demon has got you good! Ha!

DON'T ever look to the industry leaders, media, pro surfers etc, etc for personal validation. Your an old

guy now... Haven't you learned this yet? This industry isn't about truth, reality or anything else and if even

a shred of you looks to find it within the industry you will be gravely dissapointed. Raise your head high,

go to work like you were a janitor in the Empire State Building and never, never, never expect anyone to do

an accurate article on you, your boards or your visions of the future.

Now here we are today when EVERY polyester glass shop is ILLEGAL (including Pro Glass) and still no

one wants to wake up.

Huh!

I know Bill, that you know what it's like being at odds with an industry that, right or wrong, sees you as an

antichrist for pursuing what everyone should.

Amen to that

Bottom line here. If you love what you do, you owe more to it than to just take from it. That's whether its a

sport, a hobby, a business or a church. Innovation is a way to give back. I asked Kelly about a year ago,

"Why doesn't your manufacturer have an R&D program to produce better boards for you guys, doesn't he

have the money?"

I don't necessarily agree. Some things are set up to allow giving back and finding rewards and appreciation

in doing so. The surf industry though is like a bratty, spoiled child, that if you try to give a gift to, may just

spit in your face. Don't set too high of a standard for it Greg, it won't ever live up to it. Don't be a martyr for

a cause that doesn't care or even know you exist. Focus on your family, your business, your friends and

customers......be very selective and..... Don't lay your pearls before swine.

Bill, in all the years I've been at this, today looks to me to be the era of the take without giving back. It's all

about the money, the marketing, the smooze.

It is scary out there for sure. But it is nothing new really. Diffenderfer used to tell me the same stories of

dissapointment. People hated/hate Grubby cause they thought he didn't give back enough and got too rich

off of them. Team riders were always demanding prima donnas. I poured my heart and soul out for them.

Only a very, very few have ever even came back and said thanks. Just don't look for what you need from

surfing. It can't provide it. I had the same noble view of it as a kid and was proud to be called a surfer and

to know the lifestyle. Now I am more tempered and realistic in my outlook and expectations. Surfing is a

great activity and building boards a unique craft. Beyond that lies very dangerous ground.

You are right, but it has always been that way Greg. Soon you will understand how to do the marketing,

work the scene and make the money you deserve and see epoxy boards everywhere. Then the success and

acceptence you seek will come your way. There is no immorality connected to this. You are a noble guy.

You can work the scene and retain your integrity. If you find that difficult to do in the surf scene, I

understand, then branch off into something else. Be more the businessman and less the craftsman.

WE ALL HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO BETTER!

No we don't. It ain't religion. It is just surfing. And just a job. If you make it much more than that it will

tangle you all up

BB,

No offense but

No offense taken. I learned long ago that it wasn't worth getting in a tizzy over stuff like this. I won't take it

offensively or too personal. People with passions and beliefs are usually pretty strong and direct in the

discussing them. It is cool with me....! Is it cool with you?

i for one will sit back and watch you eat your words, maybe not today or tomorrow but someday soon

enough. Youre on the north shore right? Well riding a slightly heavier glassed poopee in heavy often windy

surf is just fine there.

I think your passion for your preferred surf craft construction has caused you to read into my comments

something that isn't there.

Why find satisfaction in the fact that you think I will be wrong some day. Why do you need your idea of

the future to prevail? I never said I didn't want Styropoxy boards to win or be mainstream someday.

Surftechs are winning, did you hear me put them down? I am not against any changes. Nor am I trying to

hold those changes back. Why do you see me in that light?

All I said was that I didn't see anything on the horizon that is going to rip a huge whole in the current

paradigm. That doesn't mean I don't want it to happen or that if something comes along I will fight to

destroy it. I love change. It inspires and excites me.

I am an exotic materials user. Always have been. going back longer than most on this forum. I am not a

PooPee, devotee nor am I a Styropoxy devotee. My business, my creaft and my recreation aren't religious

activities to me. But I am no less passionate about them. I don't take sides, nor do I even see sides to this

issue. I am shocked to discover they exist here on Swaylock's. I don't understand how a simple thing like

materials can create such an "us or them" kind of polarity.

Maybe we should accelerate the tension and argue over. Clear boards or Colored boards. Single fins or

Multi Fins. Leashes or no leashes. Long hair or short hair. Dolphin free tuna, or regular tuna. And what

about those poor Tuna, doesn't anyone care about them?

I do most of my boards out of Clark Foam and Polyester UV resin, not because I believe it is the best thing

in the world but because that is what my market requires. When my customers request something different

I comply or direct them to someone who's expertise or set up can better fill their needs.

There are many materials available to make boards that have amazing technical characteristics including

styrofoam, epozy and plain old polyester, Polyurethane and fiberglass.

Standard materials have been around a long time.

Exoctic materials have been around a long time.

How long the materials have been on the earth is not important.

The mechanical properties of the materials is important.

How customers feel about the materials is important.

Some people want SUVs banned.

Some people want everyone to ride bicycles to save the world.

Some people turn their personal beliefs and passions into religions.

Some people don't like it if other people don't join that religion.

Some people want everyone to ride on Styropoxy boards.

I am a member of neither the Poopee or Styropoxy religions. They both have validy and purpose in the

market place.

I think that a great shaper working with many different glassing materials can adapt his designs to provide

customers with terrific returns (fun) on their investment.

I think all these materials are fantastic and when the applications require, I have no hessitation in using

them. If all boards are someday made out of Stryropoxy that will be great, as long as the customers are

happy.

But for 99% of the surfing population....

I for one have experienced the majic of epoxy/composite construction... there's no comparison! I'm almost

42 years old and i surf circles around guys half my age not because im some freak supreme athlete, but

because im using superior equipment....ultralight composite that, compared to a poopee, is much lighter,

more responsive, accelerates faster, has almost no swingweight, got a rock hard deck that'll last for years,

will fatigue much slower, and gives me a huge edge in the line up and on the waves. As close to floating on

a cushion of air as you gonna get. Oh yeah btw, its not a surftech...homemade vacumm bagged composite.

What a wonderful story.

Equipment majic that lasts for years not a couple of dozen sessions.

Now what self respecting consumer with half a brain, riding average waves, with $500 to spend wouldnt

want that?

I don't know. Where are all those customers? Maybe you should get out of the backyard and get rich

creating the business that will serve all those customers. In the meantime all those "dorky" customers with

less then "half a brain" will continue to foolishly ride PooPees I guess. Those poor sad fools

Its only a matter of time for the rest of the world to catch up. In the meantime, i got my edge.

You go boy!

Your saying dont try to change the business world its just surfing...exactly! I want to maximize my surfing

experience and right now its thru advanced equipment...theres nothing like it.

I never said "don't try to change the business world". I am all about change. Where did you get the idea that

I didn't want any changes to take place??

Youre obviously a wise business man, but you came to the wrong place to preach about the hard realities of

the surfboard business world...the surfing public is getting robbed by a bunch of snake oil salesmen.

Poopee is an inferior product...decades old materials and construction techniques.

Every other sport has progressed thru technology...surfboards are 20 years behind the times.

So what? Why do you care. Does your need to be the Hero, require you to create Victims out of all Poopee

riders so you can then save them from the evil Villains you have now created who make the Poopee

boards? Very slick marketing. Too bad it is so easy to see through. I understand your passion for your

cause, and don't mean to be offensive, but don't turn everyone who doesn't make boards out of the materials

you approve of, into Villains. That is neither accurate nor is it even remotely fair

Two tennis players of equal talent buy new tennis rackets, one goes to wal-mart and buys an offtheshelf for

$40, the other guys gets the premium, latest and greatest and pays $200...equal talent...who's got the better

chance of winning head to head and thus who has more fun? And while i dont like competition, its there at

just about every break.

Way back in the 70s, I played tennis with a Durafiber, carbon fiber, twin tubular tennis racket. Jimmy

Conners played with a steel one and John McEnroe played with a wooden Wilson painted up to look like a

Slazenger, his sponsor. Do you mind if we each choose our material and will you still like me if I choose

one different than yours!?!

I hear you can get a brand new custom poopee on Oahu for about $250...its no wonder. Why pay more for

a better, longer lasting product when i can buy a new disposable every year...

Keep churning'm out boys cuz if that landfill dont smell like poopee you aint gett'n no bonus!!!

Bottom line: most surfers are cheap, ideological, boneheaded, technophobes, easily maleable thru juvenile

propaganda, really needing to wake up and smell the epoxy!

Rant off...

Looking forward to your more 'crafty' postings...

ps - as far as i know, in my own microcosm, im making the most advanced boards...im a BACKYARDER

and damn proud of it...

Fantastic.... Meecrafty your making the best surfboards in the world! Lets see how many is that

now.....1...err..2. err 37...99....ahh..575.....hmmmm gosh almost everyone is! Ha! Ha! Whats new. This

should be chapter one in shaping 101!

Maybe the struggle to get everyone riding Syropoxy boards has more to do with each Styropoxy builders

need to validate their efforts and to prove that they not only make the best boards in the world but have

been on the front edge of the massive paradigm shift that (they need to believe) is just around the corner