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TUESDAY, 11 MARCH 2008PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

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The House met at 14:01.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

NOTICE OF MOTION

START OF DAY

NOTICE OF MOTION

Dr S M VAN DYK: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I intend moving the following motion:That the House –

Debates the performances, bonuses and bonus shares paid to Eskom management and their justification for these payouts. Thank you.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

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Dr S M VAN DYK

DRAMATISTS AGAINST CRIME(Member’s Statement)

Mr H P MALULEKA (ANC): Thank you, Madam Speaker. Two weeks ago, the youth of Mafikeng in the North West Province embarked on a campaign aimed at using drama as an outlet for young people to avoid crime and educate their peers about the national efforts against crime. The event was known as Dramatists Against Crime. Thousands of youth attended the festival.

The festival was established by a group of young people in Gauteng province and later on was introduced in other provinces with the same aim of raising awareness among their peers in other provinces.

The Department of Sports, Arts and Culture, the National Arts Council, ABSA and The Sowetan have since sponsored the initiative. Members of the SA Police Service in the province have announced that they will be leading a march against crime on the 27 March 2008.

As ANC, be it in the communities, political organisations, business and civil society support this campaign by the youth, to encourage them to mobilise themselves against crime and to volunteer to assist the police. I thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]

Adv H C SCHMIDT

Mr H P MALULEKA

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THE CABINET AND ESKOM’S HANDLING OF POWER CRISIS(Member’s Statement)

Adv H C SCHMIDT (DA): Madam Speaker, last week President Mbeki stood here, clearly uninformed about Eskom’s handling of the power crisis, and the commitment his Cabinet had made on 25 January to not freeze construction projects.

South Africa is capable of acting in unity to confront common national challenges such as the electricity crisis. However, the people need a government that is accountable to them to unite behind, rather than a self-serving government that closes ranks, using the defence of so-called “collective” responsibility.

The raft of contradictory statements from Eskom and the Mbeki Cabinet shows clearly that neither can be trusted to supply answers to several burning questions. These range from Eskom’s management of its coal stockpiles, to why Eskom appears to be selling electricity at below cost to bulk consumers, while taxing private consumers and concealing resultant losses to safeguard directors’ bonuses.

The DA therefore reaffirms its call for an independent commission of inquiry into the conduct of Eskom’s management. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are at stake, including in its brief whether negotiations should be held with relevant mining companies such as BHP Billiton to mutually agree to terminate electricity supply to aluminium smelters in order to save roughly 2700 MW of electricity – enough to safeguard 400 000 jobs currently at risk in the mining sector. I thank you.

Mr M B SKOSANA

Adv H C SCHMIDT

UPLIFTMENT OF PREVIOUSLY DISADVANTAGED SOUTH AFRICANS(Member’s Statement)

Mr M B SKOSANA (IFP): Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is imperative that members of this House remain ever vigilant about the substantive freedoms enjoyed by the poor, the marginalised and the underdeveloped lot of South Africans and that a truly free and egalitarian African democratic society could only be realised through a total emancipation of the historic, political, economic, social, psychic and linguistic aspects of the existence of the former oppressed.

For this reason the IFP supports the Minister of Arts and Culture, Dr Pallo Jordan, that all the official national languages must be integrated in all domains of our lives, particularly in business transactions and economic growth and development. We believe that failure to do so perpetuate the linguistic, cultural and economic

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domination by the English and Afrikaans-speaking South Africans and enhances continued social and economic deprivation of the majority.

We agree also with the Minister of Science and Technology, Mr Mosibudi Mangena that the ravages of the superiority and inferiority complexes continue to linger dangerously in the mind of both the former oppressor and the former oppressed, thereby rolling back the frontiers of the freedoms won through the long and hard African struggle. I thank you Madam Speaker. [Applause.]

Ms N F MATHIBELA

Mr M B SKOSANA

FIGHT AGAINST WOMEN’S POVERTY(Member’s Statement)

Ms N F MATHIBELA (ANC): Madam Speaker, the establishment of a Women’s Project Fund and the strengthening of the initiatives such as the Malibongwe Project are intended to assist with creating an enabling environment for women.

A dialogue on socio-economic issues affecting women was held on 8 March 2008. It was jointly hosted by the Department of Arts and Culture, Trade and Industry and the Presidency. It was held under the theme “A Fight Against Poverty: A Partnership for Investing in Women and Girls to Eradicate Poverty”. The dialogue brought women and stakeholders together to debate socio-economic issues affecting women, with specific reference to poverty.

This occasion provided an opportunity to connect women across the globe and united them in renewing their pledge for solidarity in the relentless pursuit of emancipation, promotion of empowerment, demand for equality and eradication of poverty. As part of the national effort to empower women, the Department of Trade and Industry has announced the establishment of a Hundred Million Fund, known as Isivande that is aimed at supporting women-owned enterprises.

Through this and other measures, the ANC-led government continues to intensify collaboration efforts with the people to ensure that every target of the national war room against poverty is realised. I thank you. [Applause.]

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Ms S N SIGCAU

Ms N F MATHIBELA

INVESTIGATION OF HIGH FOOD PRICES(Member’s Statement)

Ms S M SIGCAU (UDM): The UDM notes that economic developments over the past year are placing an increasing pressure on the household budgets of all South Africans. Rising interest rates make it more expensive to repay debts. Inflation is driving the cost of transport and food upwards. It is especially the working class and poor households which are being pushed towards destitution.

In this difficult environment, we have seen the Competition Commission artificially exposing high prices in the bread industry, and questions are now being asked about the price of other basic food commodities. But the truth is that, across the board, prices have gone through the roof and are out of all proportions considering the rates of inflation.

We appreciate that the Competition Commission is looking into isolated cases on a case-by-case basis. But it seems necessary to institute a broad investigation into food prices, as was conducted several years ago.

Again, there are signs that certain producers and traders are engaged in ridiculous price fixing schemes and fleecing people who have no choice but to buy these basic commodities. If that is the case, we must expose these cruel and greedy people. They must face the full force of this society’s ridicule and be prosecuted. I thank you.

Dr P W A MULDER (FF PLUS)

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Ms S M SIGCAU (UDM)

INVESTIGATION OF CHANCELLOR HOUSE(Member’s Statement)

Afrikaans:Dr P W A MULDER (FF PLUS): Mevrou die Speaker, die VF Plus wil die ANC gelukwens met die aankondiging van hul tesourier-generaal, dr, Matthews Phosa, dat ’n forensiese ondersoek na alle bedrywighede van die beleggingsmaatskappy Chancellor House gedoen gaan word. Die VF Plus verwelkom ook die ondersoek van die Openbare Beskermer na Chancellor House en veral die ondersoek na beweringe dat groot Eskom-tenders aan ondernemings wat bande met Chancellor House het, toegeken is.

Die belangrikste rede vir die probleme rondom Chancellor House is die huidige gebrek aan deursigtigheid ten opsigte van die finansiering van politieke partye. Deursigtigheid en die demokrasie veronderstel, dat politieke partye op ’n gelyke vlak met mekaar moet meeding, om fondse en kiesersteun te kry tydens verkiesings. As Chancellor House winste uit swart bemagtigingstransaksies van die regering na die ANC teruggekanaliseer het, veroorsaak dit, sonder twyfel, ’n konflik van belange. Dit bring die hele wese van demokrasie in Suid-Afrika baie ernstig in die gedrang.

Om bogenoemde redes en in die belang van demokrasie in Suid-Afrika, wens die VF Plus die nuwe ANC-leierskap geluk met hulle ondersoek na Chancellor House, en eintlik indirek ook na die ou ANC-leierskap. Ons wil opreg die hoop uitspreek dat die ondersoek daaroor gaan om billike verkiesings en demokrasie in Suid-Afrika te verseker en so die beeld van politiek en politici in die land te verbeter en dat dit nie net deel is van die ANC se interne stryd nie. Ek dank u.

Mr J NYAMBI (ANC)

Dr P W A MULDER (FF PLUS)

MINING OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE YOUTH(Member’s Statement)

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Mr J NYAMBI (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC believes that the participation of the youth in the political, social and economic life of the country is crucial in strengthening and enhancing cultural democracy.

The Limpopo Youth Commission, in partnership with the De Beers Venetia Mine, will host a three-day mining indaba at Tshipise Aventura in the Vhembe District. Amongst the objectives of the mining indaba is exploring opportunities for young people in the mining sector. We commend the persistent efforts by the youth, whose efforts are aimed at creating work and fighting poverty. We ask the mining industry to emulate this example and ensure that the future of the country, the youth, is well represented in the mining industry. I thank you.

Mr I S MFUNDISI

Mr J NYAMBI

POVERTY ERADICATION AND GOVERNMENT’S PROJECTS(Member’s Statement)

Mr I S MFUNDISI (UCDP): Madam Speaker, poverty has come to be the enemy number one of people in this country, though some are having it easy as they are enriched by their disloyal ways and means.

While government is trying to alleviate poverty, the latter seems to be getting more rooted by the day. Poverty reduction programmes of government seem to be ineffective because there is insufficient capacity in government to implement the programmes.

Land distribution projects that have been handed over to people are collapsing because government does not give enough support and training to the new owners, while in some instances such tracts of land are not properly handed over to provincial agriculture departments.

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Interest is mainly focused on the public relations exercise of handing over the land with great fanfare in the glare of television cameras with no follow-up visits or programmes thereafter. Government tends to function like a traffic light once it has given a green light it does not bother what will happen afterwards.

The UCDP feels strongly that the responsibility of handing over poverty reduction projects, be it in agriculture, as part of the Extended Public Works Programmes or any other intiative, it should be supported by ongoing training until such people have acquired the necessary skills to perform their duties. People have to be provided with financial skills on how to run the projects.

So many people who were awarded tenders for capital projects hardly complete them because they can’t manage their finances well and sooner than later they are broke and out of business and end up again in the cycle of poverty and in some cases as bankrupt.

The UCDP maintains that allocating projects to people to earn a living enhances their dignity as against doling out grants. The dictum of each living by the sweat of their brows should be our guide in life. I thank you.

Dr S E M PHEKO

Mr I S MFUNDISI (UCDP)

ALTERNATIVE SOURCE OF ENERGY(Member’s Statement)

Dr S E M PHEKO (PAC): Madam Speaker, one day, the oil wells of this planet will dry up. The search for alternative forms of energy is imperative. The electricity crisis in our country is a signal that finding new forms of energy is an indispensable necessity. This is where nuclear technology comes in.

Some countries in the world today have developed their nuclear technology to a point where they have piles of weapons of mass destruction. But they are resisting the sovereign right of developing countries to develop their own nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

It is a conundrum of conundrums therefore, that in the UN Security Council our country voted against the right of Iran, another developing country, to develop its nuclear power for peaceful purposes. This is despite the fact that the Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency reported that Iran was co-operating. Sooner than later, the Iran case will be used as a precedent against our country when we exercise our sovereign right to develop our nuclear technology.

Don’t we intend developing our own nuclear technology? If so, why do we keep on exporting our uranium to countries hostile to our nuclear technology capability?

Selling our uranium to these countries while they refuse us the right to develop our nuclear technology is like providing help to an enemy army to acquire weapons superior to ours – thus guaranteeing our own defeat.

Developing countries must stand together in the defence of their common interests. They have a sovereign right to develop their nuclear technology for peaceful objectives and scientific advancement. I thank you.

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Mr S E OPPERMAN

Dr S E M PHEKO

ABELONE HARVESTING AND BRUTAL POLICE ACTIONS(Member’s Statement)

Afrikaans:Mr S E OPPERMAN (DA): Speaker, voor die opskorting van die uithaal van perlemoen op 1 Februarie 2008 kon polisietaakmaglede nie daarin slaag om onwettige perlemoenstropers in hegtenis te neem nie.

Vir die laaste drie weke tree polisiebeamptes soos barbare op. Die vissersgemeenskappe in die omgewing van Gansbaai en Hawston se huise word deursoek sonder enige lasbriewe, huise se deure word oopgeskop; ’n hond is drie weke gelede in die aangesig van sy eienaar doodgeskiet; pepersproei word in mense se gesigte gespuit; vuurwapens word op weerlose mense gerig; mense word geslaan.

Hierdie barbaarse, brutale optrede kan nie geduld word nie. Die DA sal vir’n kommissie van ondersoek vra so spoedig as moontlik sodat hierdie onaanvaarbare optrede ondersoek kan word en die skuldiges dienooreenkomstig gestraf kan word. Onwettige stropers moet in hegtenis geneem word, maar binne die raamwerk van die wet. Dankie. [Applous.]

Ms N M MDAKA

Mr S E OPPERMAN

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SKILLS DEVELOPMENT OF THE YOUTH IN THE EASTERN CAPE (Member’s Statement)

IsiXhosaMs N M MDAKA (ANC): Somlomo, umbutho wesizwe iANC kunye norhulumente bathe gqolo besakha izakhono zabantu beli, ingakumbi ulutsha. Kwiintsuku ezimbalwa ezigqithileyo iNgqurha Industrial Development project phaya kweliya laseMpuma Koloni ithe yatyikitya isivumelwano sotyalomali esixabisa izigidi ngezigidi zeerandi. Le mali iya kusetyenziselwa ukwakha amathuba emisebenzi kunye nezakhono zolutsha lwephondo.

Inkoliso yolutsha lwethu alinawo umonde wokwakha izakhono. Lona lufuna imisebenzi ngokungxama okukhulu. Thina singamalungu ale Ndlu, sibambisene nabahlali ngokubanzi, masiphume iphulo sikhuthaze ulutsha lwethu ukuba libe nomonde xa lifuna impumelelo. Umbutho wesizwe uyakuthi gqolo usebenzela ubomi obungcono kubantu bonke.Mr P F SMITH (IFP)

Ms N M MDAKA (ANC)

PROPERTY RATES AND VALUATION OF PROPERTY(Member’s Statement)

Mr P F SMITH (IFP): Madam Speaker, the IFP is concerned at the uncertainty surrounding the implementation of the Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Act. It is clear from daily reports in the media that there are simply too many instances of poor valuations. We therefore urge anyone who believes their property is wrongly valued to take advantage of the objections process to have their properties revalued.

In light of widespread public concerns, we also call on the Minister for Provincial and Local Government to reassure this House that he is satisfied that the valuations process has been properly implemented in all the municipalities that have completed or are presently busy with a valuations process.

The reason people are concerned with valuations is a fear that their rates bill will rocket. People do accept increases but they do not accept unreasonable increases, and people may have sound reasons to fear the latter since there are cases where rates revenue collected has increased by more than 350% in the past year.

We therefore call for urgent finalisation and implementation of an existing draft regulation seeking to cap the extent to which rates income may be increased year-on-year, and we call on the Minister to ensure that it applies to rates raised during the current implementation phase of the Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Act. Thank you.

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Mr T J BONHOMME (ANC)

Mr P F SMITH (IFP)

PARTICIPATION IN HUMAN RIGHTS DAY FUN RUN(Member’s Statement)

Mr T J BONHOMME (ANC): Madam Speaker, to be active in sport is an integral part of the reconstruction and development of a healthier society. Sport cuts across all development programmes and should be made accessible and affordable to all South Africans.

Thousands of community members will take part in this year’s Human Rights Day fun run, which forms part of the build-up towards 21 March. The event is organised in partnership with the Gauteng Department of Sports, Arts, Culture and Recreation, the Sedibeng District Municipality, and Vaal Athletics.

The fun run is open to all communities. It is aimed at raising awareness around the importance of the history of Human Rights Day and highlighting key government achievements in addressing human rights issues. We urge members of the public to take part in the event. I thank you.

Mr E W TRENT

Mr T J BONHOMME

OUTRAGEOUS STIKE BY MUNICIPAL WORKERS(Member’s Statement)

Mr E W TRENT (DA): Madam Speaker, whilst supporting the right of workers to strike legally, the DA condemns in strongest terms the outrageous action of a group of rogue Nelson Mandela Municipality workers who went on

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a rampage causing chaos in the city since last Wednesday. They did so by, inter alia, flooding and trashing buildings, destroying property, smashing doors, furniture and office equipments, including computers. They threatened and intimidated their colleagues who wish to work with steel pipes, sjamboks and knobkerries.

It is important to note that this illegal and violent strike action was taken despite the fact that the Labour Court grant them an order in terms of which, they had to somehow undertake to ensure that its members comply with the laws of this country and respect the rights of other citizens. I am publicly challenging the members of the ANC here today to distance themselves and condemn those who are guilty of such behaviour.

I have noticed that the Minister of Safety and Security, the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Public Service and Administration are here. The Minister of Correctional Services, you can keep them where they belong once they get there and I hope that you will note what I have said. You need to make sure that the perpetrators face the full force of the law. You must do this as a deterrent to those who may, in future, contemplate such action as a means to settle their grievances.

Ms N N SIBHIDLA

Mr E W TRENT

CAMPAIGN TO APPLY FOR IDENTITY DOCUMENTS AT SCHOOLS(Member’s Statement)

Ms N N SIBHIDLA (ANC): In an effort to bring ID application services to high schools across the country, the Department of Home Affairs will unveil the ID-of-the-self campaign. The campaign is aimed at motivating young people to apply for ID books. The campaign will be undertaken in partnership with the Department of Education, the National Youth Commission, South African Broadcasting Corporation or SABC and the Independent Electoral Commission.

It will be facilitated by the deployment of mobile units to schools across the country to provide onsite applications and registration assistance.

With an ID book everyone among our people acquires the capacity to open the door to a better future. Among other things IDs are enabling tools for people to further their education, apply for jobs, access social grants and other government services and decide how the country is run. We urge all members of Parliament to use their constituency offices to support these initiatives. I thank you.

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The MINISTER OF FINANCE

Ms M M SIBHIDLA

COMPANIES ACT SETS OUT MANAGERIAL ACCOUNTABILITY FOR COMPANIES FOOD PRICES HAVE INCREASED ACROSS THE WORLD

(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Speaker, let me respond to a few of the statements, starting with that of hon Schmidt.

Now, we need to be very careful; there are norms that are set out in the Companies Act and its operation. The Companies Act asks of shareholders to appoint a board to represent its interests, and such a board holds management accountable. Any company listed in terms of the Companies Act, including Eskom in this instance, is structured like that, and the norms are set out in, amongst other places, the King 1 and King 2 reports.

If you then ask Parliament to be involved in holding management accountable, you destroy the lines of accountability. We need to be careful about how we exercise this power. Clearly, it’s very important for the board of Eskom to be able to answer to Parliament for what management did or did not do. If we don’t do that, I think the lines are completely blurred and management doesn’t know who to account to for what kind of issue. I’m saying that we need to exercise a great deal of caution about these issues.

I’d also like to respond to hon Nkabinde and hon Mfundisi together.

Now, I think the points about food prices are well taken. One issue that we need to be aware of is that food prices across the world have increased. Since 2005 the wheat price has increased by just over 200% at last count; over the past 12 months rice has increased by just over 100%; all of the grain crops have increased, and, of course, maize prices have increased to the extent that they have.

The food price monitoring committee - located primarily in the Department of Agriculture – is preparing a fresh report, and I think they should be encouraged to place the report on the table.

The one issue that has arisen very sharply in the analysis is that government interventions don’t always work. There’s been a very recent story about bread price subsidies in Egypt, where the wheat price is subsidised, but where a lot of the bakers are selling the subsidised flour and then only baking a limited amount of bread for the poor. These issues arise too frequently. We know that in this country, where there’s VAT on white bread but no

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VAT on brown bread, you can’t see the 14% price differential in the prices. These are issues that Parliament will have to deal with.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon Minister. Your time has expired.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Oh, I’ve got a few more ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well, you may take more time, as long as your colleagues know that they will then have to forfeit their allocated time for responses in the process.

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES


YOUTH INVOLVED IN FIGHT AGAINST CRIMEGANGSTERS MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS

SAMWU COMMITTED ITSELF TO MEMBERSHIP COMPLIANCE WITH COUNTRY’S LAWS(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, he’ll get more time towards the end of Ministers’ responses. The youth of Mafikeng, in North West, and of Gauteng and our country as a whole have really heeded the call by the ANC and by the government that all hands must be on deck to fight against crime. The Dramatists Against Crime must be commended for raising awareness and assisting our communities in fighting crime. That’s the quick one.

Afrikaans :Ons, die ANC, die regering en die polisie stem saam dat onwettige stropers in hegtenis geneem moet word. [We, the ANC, government and the police agree that illegal poachers should be arrested.]

English We cannot have a situation where these gangsters continue to do all these things and get away with them.

Coming to the last one, Samwu in Port Elizabeth did undertake, as a union, to ensure that its members comply with the laws of the country. Therefore the Minister of Safety and Security and the MEC from the Eastern Cape, Thobile Mhlahlo, will definitely look into this whole situation. Surely, we will be able to get a report at the end of it all. Thank you.

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The MINISTER OF DEFENCE

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES

NUCLEAR ENERGY FOR PEACFUL DEVELOPMENTAL PURPOSES(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is important, first of all, to reiterate the position of South Africa in support of developing nations having the right to use nuclear energy for peaceful developmental purposes where such needs arise. Therefore, our support for this goal has not been unselfish because we ourselves do have the need and will indeed want to use nuclear energy for peaceful developmental purposes. We are therefore in full support of developing countries in this regard.

Nevertheless, that support is based on the understanding that prescription of the International Atomic Energy Agency, agreed by nations of the world, must be complied with. Where we are uncertain, or where the International Atomic Energy Agency is not satisfied that there is a full compliance, South Africa cannot be expected to blindly go ahead to support actions.I thank you.

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION

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The MINISTER OF DEFENCE

ESTABLISHMENT OF FUND FOR WOMEN (Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Thank you very much Deputy Speaker. I would like to comment on the statement on socio-economic dialogue and the establishment of women’s development fund and say that in addition to supporting this statement and reflecting on the commitments and strides made by government to ensure the empowerment of women through the Isivande Women’s Fund, it also coincides with the 99th anniversary of International Women’s Day on 8 March as well as the Commission on the Status of Women’s focus this year. In line with the Beijing Platform of Action resolutions, which deal with the issue of financing for gender equality and women’s empowerment, South Africa has shown, once again, that it is a leader in this area. And we should applaud ourselves. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION

ID CAMPAIGN FOR THE YOUTHSKILLS DEVELOPMENT OF YOUNG PEOPLE

(Minister’s Response)The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, the ANC in its January 8 Statement directed the Department of Home Affairs to engage in a national campaign that targets young people, especially those who are 16 years old, to obtain the identity documents. As a result of this the Minister of Home Affairs last week Friday launched the campaign in Gugulethu and issued 200 identity documents to learners.

We shall continue to focus on this group of our people and later during this year, leading to 2009, we will try to reach out to all South Africans.

We therefore, support the view that all hon members should utilize their constituency offices and mobilize their constituencies to ensure that this campaign succeeds.

The second issue that I would like to comment on briefly is with regards to young people and skills. It is a known fact that in our country 70% of all those that are unemployed are below the ages of 35. Most of these young people are unemployed because they lack the requisite skills. University education is becoming more and more expensive and therefore increasing numbers of young people are failing to access it. Even though further education and training colleges are becoming more and more accessible - and there is a lot of work that is being done to improve that - there are still very serious gaps, which mean that there are increasing numbers of young people who are still unable to obtain skills.

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I don’t think we should blame young people for not having skills. I also don’t think that it is because young people are impatient, seek jobs but don’t want to obtain skills. I think we need to do a lot of work to ensure that young people of our country are able to obtain skills so that they can go further to get jobs. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE: Having been fully answered, I would kindly stand back for my bench mate. I didn’t know whether I heard you correctly?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS

INVESTIGATION INTO CHANCELLOR HOUSE(Minister’s Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Deputy Speaker, I just want to respond on the issue of Chancellor House raised by FF Plus. I would like to bring to the attention of the hon member that there is no investigation conducted by the ANC Treasurer-General on the issue of Chancellor House. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Not yet?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: It’s not about “not yet”; but it is what you need to know. Any new person who takes a position in any environment wants to know exactly what one is going to inherit. So, it’s not an investigation; it’s an assessment and evaluation of the assets within Chancellor House.

The second issue is that transparency is one of the fundamental principles, which the ANC believes in. This House did not know anything about transparency until we came in here. We have taught you how transparency works. We are happy that you understand that transparency is a principle and that the ANC will not compromise that principle.

The third issue to which I would like to respond ... [Interjections.]

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Deputy Speaker, is the hon Deputy Minister prepared to take a question? It’s a very easy question.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you prepared to take a question?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: If you allow me, Madam Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Would you like to take the question now?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Yes!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: So, you’d better take your seat so that you take a question.

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Deputy Speaker, the hon Deputy Minister... [Interjections.]

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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Deputy Speaker, if I give him an opportunity to ask the question, I hope I will be able to have extra time to respond to the second issue.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Unfortunately it will be taken from your time.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: No, I am therefore not going to take his question, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue then with your response.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Madam Speaker, with regard to the issue raised by the hon member of the DA, we and the police are not going to tolerate any members of the police who behave in a manner which is unacceptable. [Interjections.]

You shut up! May I bring to your attention hon member that one of the issues is that we expect communities where crimes are committed... [Interjections.]

Mr T D LEE: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary to use the phrase ``shut up’’?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, the phrase ``shut up’’ has been used several. That does not mean because it has been used several times we should therefore continue in that direction. We need to moderate our language as we address one another. But the hon Deputy Minister is not out of order. Please just conclude your response.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I want to say communities that continue to harbour criminals will always have problems with the police. We would like to urge the communities of Coega, especially around issues of perlemoen, to continue co-operating with the police. If the police is there for searches and all that, they must co-operate but if they continue behaving in a manner that obstructs the police in doing their work, indeed they will have problems. Thank you. [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (Dr R DAVIES): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am also covered by the Minister of Finance. I wanted to respond to the question on food prices.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Minister Manuel, we have one and a half minutes left.


The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY

RATES VALUATIONS(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: No, Madam Speaker, I wanted to respond to the points raised by the hon Smith. He is looking so dapper in its guyavera today. He has gone to show it to the world. Indeed, the issue of rates valuations is a very important matter. What we need to ensure is that the legislation empowers local government. He is a confederalist of note but now he is asking national government to intervene in respect of local government. There will be a measure of excesses in the early valuations. I think that the objections processed will probably see some return to normality. There clearly is an ongoing discussion in Johannesburg

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right now, where some of the valuations are excessive. There will be a return to normality but I think we must help it along, rather than shout from the rooftops as though there is a new calamity. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I just want to go back to the Rules. Usually we do have members of the executive complaining. We allow a maximum of six Ministerial responses at two minutes each. The reason why we allowed more responses this afternoon is because you saved us a lot of time. We therefore decided: Let us hear more from the executive. If you are brief in your responses, we will hear more responses from the executive. That concludes Ministerial responses. We now come to the statement by the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY

The MINISTER OF FINANCE / THE DEPUTY SPEAKER

STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: NO WATER CRISIS

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Deputy Speaker and hon members, thank you for the opportunity to make a statement on the so-called water crisis facing our country.

Water is a source of life and such a strategic resource that it is important that Parliament and our society openly discuss and debate the issues around water. To engage in this debate, we must be armed with information and empower ourselves to better understand how this sector works. Misinformation will only create unnecessary panic and discontent, and I am sure that no one would desire that. So those who bandy about words like ``crisis’’ must surely have facts and information at their disposal before using such strong terms.

I am therefore hoping, through this statement, to set the record straight so that we all take responsibility for what we say around this issue. As the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, I have nothing to hide on the state of our water sector, and we have been open and transparent in our presentations and inputs to Parliament’s Portfolio Committee on Water Affairs and Forestry who, I must say, has been playing a very excellent oversight role over the sector.

At the outset I would like to share with you what the water situation in the country is. Now this is in terms of water storage and therefore we are talking water security. The 2007-08 summer rainfall season started off in

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October 2007 with well above-normal water storages due to the good rainfalls over the largest parts of the country. The above-normal rainfall resulted in good run-offs which is reflected in the good storage situation in our dams and rivers across most parts of the country. The result is that water storages in all provinces are well above the average storage and most of the provincial storages equals or exceeds last year’s storage. On a national level, the current storage equals last year’s storage of 86%. So, in terms of macro water availability, there is no crisis.

But we do face challenges in some other areas, and I am going to talk on the challenges and what we are doing to try, collectively, to address the challenges. My department has in-depth knowledge about the situation with particular reference to hot spots. The department is well organised in terms of proactive water resource planning, in terms of project planning and design as well as national infrastructure implementation.

Although South Africa is water-scarce country with highly skewed rainfall distribution patterns and subject to droughts, we have planned for this by having a number of dams and by having strict allocation processes, extensive networks of infrastructure that transfer water from different parts of the country, and a consistent campaign to remind our citizens to be water-wise by using water sparingly, although from time to time it becomes necessary to impose restrictions during periods of droughts.

South Africans therefore can rest assured that we do not have a water crisis arising from poor planning. Our planning systems are strong and we have looked at future needs. However, we cannot allow that comfort to lead to inaction. Water should be a concern for all South Africans. Water in South Africa is supplied on a regional basis and so drought conditions and low dam levels in one part of the country can result in water restrictions in that particular area. However, dams in another part of the country may be full as a result of good rainfall.

I would like to say that we have enough water in our rivers, dams and underground to supply water for socioeconomic growth and development, and we have programmes in place to ensure timely development of infrastructure to ensure future supply of water to our growing economy whilst at the same time trying to address the imbalances of the past with regard to access to water for drinking purposes as well as productive use for the majority who have been excluded.

To improve on our water availability, we shall also be clamping down on illegal water users and we have in place plans for major new dams. Each of the large metropolitan areas are required to do water reconciliation studies to determine scenarios of future water use and whether new infrastructure will be required to meet future needs. Climate change and its possible impact on water resource availability has been considered in these studies.

I just want to share something with you. Much work has been done in this area. Between 2004 and 2006, nine water resources capital projects were completed at a cost of R1,3 billion. Here we are talking about Nandoni Dam in Limpopo and Mooi-Mgemi Transfer scheme in KZN. We are also currently implementing another six major water resource infrastructure projects at a projected cost of R8,8 billion to be completed between 2008 and 2012. Here we are talking of De Hoop in Limpopo, the Berg River Dam in the Western Cape and the Vaal River East-Subsystem Augmentation Scheme, which will supply sufficient water to Eskom power stations, and Sasol. In addition, a further nine major water resources capital projects are at a planning stage and these will be built in the next five to 10 years at an estimated cost of R12 billion. Through our planning processes, we have determined that a new dam will be required to service Gauteng by 2019. The feasibility studies to determine the location of this new dam have already been completed and a decision on the location will be made in the coming months.

In addressing the infrastructure challenges, we must distinguish between national water infrastructure and municipal infrastructure. In terms of the national water infrastructure, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry is well advanced in developing a comprehensive asset register. Based on its commitment to ensure effective management, the department initiated a study to investigate the condition of its works, including dam safety issues and, based on this study, the need was identified to improve the situation which resulted in special funding being allocated to the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry by National Treasury to address the national water infrastructure needs.

I request members to please not confuse dam infrastructure with other forms of infrastructure, such as waste water treatment plants, which I will address myself to, a little later.

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We have provided information to Parliament on several occasions on dams that require maintenance - as you have just requested – so as to bring them up to international standards. There have been some claims that our water infrastructure is now crumbling. It is most definitely not the case.

A plan is in place to do the necessary rehabilitation and refurbishment of our dams. In 2006 we set aside R1,3 billion over a five-year period to ensure that our dams are maintained and that they are in line with international standards. The maintenance programmes has already started, with repair work done on 42 of our dams.

South Africa has an excellent record with respect to the safety of dams, and conducts compulsory safety inspections at regular intervals.

The identified shortcomings on DWAF-owned dams are being attended to. Our important storage dams are structurally safe and the communities around them need not be concerned.

I now turn to the state of our drinking water. At the outset, I would like to say that drinking water quality management is the responsibility of Municipalities; and the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry has an oversight and regulatory role on the quality of tap water.

Over the past few years my department has implemented a countrywide system to assist with the overall management of the quality of drinking water. On average over 3 000 samples have been taken nationwide from water supply systems, and from the latest results available, we are pleased to report that more than 94% of the analyses complied with the health aspects of the national standard for drinking water quality.

The quality of drinking water from our taps is one of the best in the world, and these findings serve as proof that we can still claim our rightful place as one of the countries where one can drink water directly from the tap. However, 6% of the analyses do not comply with this standard.

My department, as part of our oversight responsibility, is working with the municipalities in the small towns to ensure that they meet the required standards of delivering safe and clean drinking water to our people. Armed with information from our monitoring system, we are able to be proactive in addressing any noncompliance.

Of concern to me is the state of our rivers, which are prone to pollution. I am very concerned about this pollution and I have directed my department to strengthen its oversight role so that we address this problem more comprehensively.

The pollution can come from the mining industry – what is referred to as acid mine drainage; from poor municipal infrastructure, which fails to treat waste water to the required standards before releasing it back into the rivers; as a result of industrial activity; some of it comes from informal settlements that are establish alongside rivers; and some of it is from agricultural activities.

As part of our regulatory responsibilities, my department monitors the health of our rivers; all is not well. We have identified 142 high-risk sites where there is pollution. Despite what some will have you believe, we are aware of the pollution in these areas; and together with relevant stakeholders, we see it as our priority to bring them back to good health through our river health programme.

More can be done, of course, and we will be doing more. We will also be expanding the capacity of our regulatory and compliance unit. As you can imagine, for you to be able to implement the policy of Polluter Pays Principle, you need somebody to identify that there is pollution. So more hands are needed to inspect, to identify and to report and to police our water resources.

So we are going to be enforcing the Polluter Pays Principle, so as to make sure that those that pollute our resources do pay for the resolution of the problem they have created.

I think that another important area to address is the municipal wastewater treatment plants. The responsibility for the running of the wastewater treatment plants rests with municipalities. Again here we are expected to play an oversight role.

We have done an audit and found that the situation in many municipalities is dire and must be addressed as a matter of urgency. The pollution in some of our rivers, as I have already said, can be attributed to failure on the

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part of these municipal wastewater treatment plants. There is no denying that some of this infrastructure is old and dilapidated.

In deed from our side, we have recognised the need to support municipalities so that they are able to comply with our guidelines. We have set guidelines for them in order for them to comply with our own standards.

The following actions are under way, over and above the continued hands-on support that we provide to municipalities over the period: we have now started an extensive database on all the waste water treatment plants; the monitoring system is being extended to also include functionality management, governance and condition; the initial audit that we started is to be extended to all waste water treatment plants; a special bulk infrastructure fund has been established; a dedicated programme on infrastructure planning is under way, and we have developed special guidelines to deal with infrastructure management.

An asset management programme has been initiated; and special attention is given to institutional capacity development, with focus on sustainable management; special attention is also given to the regulation of the sector, which includes accountability, performance monitoring and legal intervention. Of course, there is continuous one-on-one intervention with the stakeholders in the areas, which we call “hotspots”.

Finally, a concern that has been raised continually is an issue around skills. To perform the work in the sector, you require a particular skill. So, like all sectors in this country that require engineers and scientists, we face the challenges in recruiting and retaining suitably qualified staff.

Whilst we acknowledge that more can be done, we have put mitigation measures in place to ensure that we do not run into a crisis. Those measures include the use of international experts and deploying engineers to needy municipalities to train those municipalities; deployment of officials and experts to our regional offices to train the staff there; we have established a training academy for young graduates, which is located at head office, and we are looking forward to improved compensation from the Department of Public Service and Administration by means of implementation of a special dispensation allowance for scarce-skill occupations such as engineers.

So, what are saying, in short? In summary, what I would like to communicate today is that our drinking water is safe and is actually getting safer by the day. There are concerns however, as I have state, with regard to our rivers. There are challenges, particularly around wastewater treatment by municipalities, which requires urgent attention. I have stated how we are urgently intervening in those areas.

What I am saying is that our planning is strong, and that we are planning way ahead of our needs. There are areas of concern, perhaps Kwazulu-Natal and some others, but the planning that is in place is going to take care of those concerns. I am saying our dams are safe.

So, hon members, this is a complex message that requires us to engage meaningfully with water issues. We must remember at all times that we live in a water-scarce region and that our water is not unlimited. We must conserve and protect our water resources.

I think the time allocated for this debate will not do justice to the amount of work, commitment and dedication by all involved in the sector as this is not a Water Affairs and Forestry only issue; this is a DPLG issue, so we have to look at the augmentation and rig fencing of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant to ensure that it does what it was meant to do.

We also need to augment the areas where municipalities find it necessary to use the MIG finance, because they do not have access to any other funding resource. So we need to deal with those areas that always come up in our interaction.

This is an area of housing, and the sooner we have better houses and eliminate informal settlements, which are actually responsible particularly for the untreated affluent that not only does not go through any of our water treatment plants, but also pollutes the rivers, particularly after heavy rains. Housing will help us to deal with the problem.

This is a matter of health, water institutions and academia, which must continually help us with research into the future. Research institutions and the private sector are also involved a great deal in many of our intervention efforts, including NGOs and communities. And I really want to thank all of them for the hard work that they are doing, and I would like to say: Aluta Continua!

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Before I sit down I would like to share with hon members to say that we have information about most of the issues that they have raised, because having been faced with these questions of the water crisis we have to get the status report from each of our regional offices in the provinces. We do have such information and hon member are invited to continuously ask questions about areas of concern in their areas of work.

That information will be forthcoming and I invite members to engage honestly and openly and debate this in a constructive manner without calling it a crisis. It is an issue of concern and a challenge facing a whole lot of stakeholders. And I think we are dealing with it collectively in a way that will ensure that the situation in the areas where there are problems does not result in a crisis. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M M SWATHE

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY

Mr M M SWATHE: Chairperson, the hon Minister of Water Affairs would be well-advised to remember that today South Africa faces an electricity supply crisis because the government ignored the warning it was given more than 10 years ago.

We need open and honest leadership that will ensure that problems are confronted head-on and not ignored or simply wished away. The reality is that at present South Africa is confronted with a looming crisis of a combination of polluted water resources and poor management of dams. Sewage works and treatment plants have led to a situation where our water supply is under serious threat.

A safe and reliable water supply is essential to proper functioning of any nation. There would be catastrophic implications for our nation’s health and well being if such systems were to break down. The reality is that a threat does exist.

As we speak, there are already localised areas of crisis which, left unchecked, will bring about a crisis in South Africa worse than what we are currently experiencing in relation to electricity supply.

There are three main areas of concern. The areas where our water originates are being damaged by generalised official disregard for the environmental consequences of industrial activity. The problems are exacerbated by shortcomings in the management of our dams, which reduce the supply of water we have available and also affect its quality.

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The Minister herself admitted last year that only 60% of 294 dams were owned and managed by her Department, and that only 54% of these comply with modern safety standards. To compound this problem, the water treatment plans themselves and the pipes that deliver clean water to our cities and towns are old and dilapidated.

Most municipal sewerage systems in South Africa are 30 to 50 years old, but few councils are doing anything more than band-aid maintenance. The dire situation has been obvious for several years and has been made known to DWAF, the Department of Water Affairs.

While it estimated that R180 billion would be needed for a complete overhaul of the system, it allocated only R1 billion, less than one percent of what is needed this year.

Last week the DA sent the Minister a copy of our report into the state of South Africa’s water infrastructure. Included in that document was a comprehensive list of solutions. Instead of putting her head into a sand, in a manner similar to that of her Cabinet colleague Alec Erwin, the Minister would be well advised to face this problem head-on in the interest of all South Africans, failing which ... [Time expired.]

Mr M W SIBUYANA

Mr M M SWATHE

Mr M W SIBUYANA: Chair, hon members, hon Minister, let me kick off by saying that it would be a very sad moment for me one day to hear the Minister say, “I apologise to the people of South Africa for the water crisis”.

Indeed, forewarned is forearmed, and the failure to heed any warning results in consequences too ghastly to contemplate. In statements read in this House, the IFP spoke of water pollution reported in different newspapers and spoke of vandalisation of water supply infrastructure.

Municipalities hide behind the department’s failure to resuscitate defunct boreholes and turn them into usable assets. Some municipalities, as reported in newspapers, fail to control sewage water from polluting rivers in KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape and in parts of the Western Cape.

Despite what the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry is telling us, that the media is blowing events out of proportion, there is a water crisis in South Africa. The department’s failure is there for any person of ordinary prudence to see. It cannot avoid sewage spills from old age water infrastructure.

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In this regard, people who elected us are indeed in need of quality water supply. We do not anticipate the fate of soccer coaches who fail to deliver. [Time expired.]

Ms S N SIGCAU

Mr M W SIBUYANA

Ms S N SIGCAU: Chairperson and hon Ministers, the hon Minister says that there is no water crisis, but it is so unfortunate that we have heard this tune before. For years there were warnings about electricity infrastructure in this country not being maintained and expanded, as it should be.

Now, again, we see certain realities and warning signs. Water usage has escalated. The number of end-users has increased dramatically. Infrastructure development and maintenance have not kept pace with demand.

We also know that certain water and sanitation facilities depend on electricity to operate. We also know that we live in a water-scarce country with a rapidly growing population in the midst of a major urbanisation trend that puts increased pressure on infrastructure.

A full-scale risk assessment of our water infrastructure at projections of future demand needs to be undertaken. I thank you, Chairperson.

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Mr H B CUPIDO

Ms S N SIGCAU

Mr H B CUPIDO: Chairperson, the ACDP trusts that the serious debate on water availability and the quality of water will kick, especially in the local government, into higher gear because the results of poor water quality is mostly felt by the poorest of the poor in the informal settlements. Today’s Cape Times carries a very serious article on the struggle of the Red Cross hospital and the Tygerberg hospital in their fight against gastroenteritis. If there’s no crisis in South Africa, why do we have so many outbreaks of cholera in different provinces in our country?

In 2007, it was reported that there were 77 cases of cholera outbreaks in the township in Queenstown in the Eastern Cape. In 2005, typhoid left five people dead and 3 346 others were also diagnosed with water-borne diseases in Delmas. The quality of water that municipalities are delivering to our people, in many cases, is not good. In 2004 …[Time expired.] Thank you.

Dr C P MULDER

Mr H B CUPIDO

Dr C P MULDER: Chairperson, if we don’t have electricity, we can make a fire or light a candle but if we don’t have clean drinking water, we don’t have clean drinking water. It’s as simple as that. It’s quite clear that the Constitution stipulates very clearly that everyone has a right to have access to sufficient food and water.

If you’ve listened to what the hon Minister said this afternoon in terms of planning the question is: Are we planning sufficiently in terms of the needs that will be in 2025 and 2030? Are we planning for that because we have to do that? Are we taking the necessary steps to clean our rivers because we hear on a daily basis of problems in the river system in South Africa?

The hon Minister also does give us the figures in terms a 6% problem we have cleared in drinking water but in the end if the problems really come to the fore in terms of the drinking water, it’s not going to be the Minister of Provincial and Local Government who’s going to be in the dark but it will be the Minister of Water Affairs and

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Forestry. What we are saying is: Let us, in time, have a discussion so that we do not have the same situation that we ended up with in respect of supply of electricity in South Arica. Let us address this – the sooner the better.

Mr P H K DITSHETELO

Dr C P MULDER

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson, I agree with the hon Minister that there is no water crisis because our water resources are well-monitored from pollution and other elements that could, otherwise, create a crisis. There are many challenges that face us, including pollution, sewerage and fertilisers containing nutrients, such as nitrates and phosphates. These are areas where I say they are properly monitored even though they cause some pollution.

The excessive growth of these types of organisms consequently clogs our waterways, use up dissolved oxygen and decompose and block light to deeper waters. This, in turn, proves very harmful. These anomalies are well monitored. However, I say they are challenges and we have to face … [Time expired.]

Mr R B BHOOLA

Mr P H K DITSHETELO

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Mr R B BHOOLA: Chairperson, it is reported that the World Health Organisation, WHO, estimates that in 2003, approximately 1,1 billion people had no access to safe water and 2,4 billion had no basic sanitation. It is well known that this leads to a number of potential diseases, such as cholera, typhoid, malaria, yellow fever, scabies and many more. This water-borne disease kills one child in every eight seconds.

However, it is encouraging to note that the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry notes South African water to be one of the safest potable water globally. The MF, however, holds that this water supply and condition cannot always be controlled by man, and that we always need interim measure to secure us from water shortages or water-borne diseases. It is interesting to note that affluent countries use up to 10 times more water than poverty-stricken countries like South Africa.

We, then, hope that since earth is covered mostly by water, the thread of water shortages experienced in Cape Town in 2005 may see us taking measures that, in the future, would perhaps consider pumping water from the sea. This is assured by the Minister’s statement that there is no water crisis, and that industrial waste by mines has been contained with an investment in securing the management of waste over the next five years. I thank you.

Mr S SIMMONS

Mr R B BHOOLA

Mr S SIMMONS: Chairperson, no water crisis? This is becoming a trademark statement of this government’s denial. When ordinary South African citizens taste their water and it’s different or notice a difference in the clarity of the water, they do not need the Minister to come and tell them that there is no crisis. However, having been the member of the portfolio committee, I know of the excellent levels of expertise that the department had at its disposal.

My question is whether the Minister can categorically state today if her department, the provinces and the municipalities have retained this vital expertise, because our short and very disturbing Eskom situation tells us that a loss of expertise leads inevitably to a crisis? So, if there is no crisis, as the Minister claims, then one is looming. I thank you.

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Ms C C SEPTEMBER

Mr S SIMMONS

Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Chairperson, the ANC welcomes this debate this afternoon. We welcome the debate because uppermost in the mind of the ANC continues to be ensuring the quality of lives of our people and building a caring society that includes the provision of water, sanitation and making sure that we achieve the Millennium Development Goals. Water, lest we forget, is one of our enduring human symbols of life, regeneration, purity and hope. It is one of our potent links with the sacred, with nature and with our cultural inheritance.

This is our opportunity to bring water forward as a medium for a global project that unifies humanity in a single course for peace, stability, amity and ecological sustainability – not this funny attempt that we heard here today to divide. The healing powers of water, the simple pleasure of drinking pure water and the awesome power of waterfalls have the potential of bringing us together as one with each other and as one with nature.

Given the limited financial and labour resources, both at a global and a local scale, decisions must be taken, hon Minister, on the basis of feasibility on urgency and tolerable levels of economic and social costs relative to socio-political economic and ecological benefits. Yes, hon Bhoola, desalination may be the most satisfactory solution in one situation but rainwater harvesting may be the optimal one in others. What we require, hon Minister, is the institution of global managerial strategy. This cannot be achieved without the adoption of enduring principles of justice and hope.

The key principle and culprit in this is the fragmentation of water management. Indeed, from a historical perspective, what is needed is an integrative ethic of water management, which deals with local problems of water availability as a function of water resources, transportation of it, distribution and consumption in a trans-regional and global context. We heard here this afternoon that some of them have started already. Choice will have to be made about the rate of consumption; the wasteful practices; the recycling; and other solutions.

The different users, policy makers, financial agencies and professionals have come together many times to exchange information and to achieve trust and promote accountability and transparency in this instance - water. Of course, there are issues that associated with disease, water and sanitation. However, may of them were established even in the mid 19th century. Much research that are conducted are on the bacteria developed during this period. It’s not a little South African problem only here and now. Many times even in 1937 and 1938 we’ve had cholera outbreaks. We’ve had situations of industrial areas and smelly opened sewerages that affected people and, therefore, solutions then had to be found, they need to be found and continue to be found.

One of the influential reports on public health that was publicised was that report of Chadwick. He demonstrated and argued that unsanitary housing conditions caused disease and poverty, but he established the correlation between poor sanitation, defective drainage, inadequate water supply and overcrowded housing with disease, high mortality rates and low life expectancy. This is why we have, today, the National Water Act in South Africa and the National Water Resources Strategy that speak to all of these issues, but then, of course, we heard, today, stump statements saying that, of course, there is water crisis despite the fact that this morning in the portfolio committee, we had a detailed briefing of the reserve, the infrastructure and dams in the country.

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Unfortunately, hon Mr Swathe, we understand that you couldn’t deviate from your speech. You had to say all of those things and we can see that hon Swathe, hon Sibuyana and the hon member from the UDM have started the campaign by themselves. A campaign that has nothing else in saying that there is crisis and a systematic campaign that is aimed at breaking down the leadership responsible for government, the ANC and systems of governance it has put in place, and completely ignores everything that was said today. They stand up in this House and deny the fact that we knew those things. In fact what we see is that they are now grabbing at straws, after having not had their say about electricity. They are dissatisfied to such an extent that they even asked the President to let the Cabinet go after it was explained to them that all of that is not going to happen - and here they come with the water issue.

Hon Minister, we ask you, please not to despair. You must continue with the duty that the ANC-led government has said and that is: We must make sure that we achieve the Millennium Development Goals. The portfolio committee had public hearings on water quality. We are surprised now to hear that there is a crisis. When we had the public hearing two years ago, of course, what came out of that hearing was that there’s disparity between cities and rural areas; not sufficient local education on the ground; there are pollutions at the mining areas; the different departments told us how they are working together; we had a situation of a query around the implementation of the Drinking Water Quality Framework for SA; and, of course, the responsibility that goes together with receiving a license.

We ask, hon Minister, those things would be important to focus on. Of course, we dealt with infrastructure wastewater and treatment plants. On our oversight visits there was no cry of “there’s a crisis” after we came from the Vaal River, after we came from the Hartebeespoort Dam and after we came back here to Cape Town. Indeed, what we are saying is that we should may be have a look at ring-fencing the Municipal Infrastructure Grantso that we can make sure that the monies allocated are being ring-fenced. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Just a point of order, hon member! Is that a point of order, sir?

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: I was just wondering whether the hon member can take a brief and simple question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, are you prepared to take a question?

Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Well, of course, I must first make sure that I say what I have to say - if I can continue. Hon Minister, as we are looking at the National Water Resources Strategy whose five years are about to be completed, the ANC would be interested in having a discussion on what are the elements that we now put into National Water Resources Strategy in the next five years, because we think that strategy has provided the country with important things of putting together.

Secondly, what we would want to concentrate on, we think that much needs to be done on water conversation. [Time expired.] Thank you, very much. There’s no crisis, hon members. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

Ms C C SEPTEMBER

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PRECEDENCE TO ORDER OF THE DAY(Draft Resolution)

IsiZulu: The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Sawubona, Sihlalo. Wena kaMhlanga kaMusi!

English:I move that after Order 1, precedence be given to Orders 3 and 4 under further business.

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]

Mr J P CRONIN

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION ON THE CONTROL OF HARMFUL ANTI-FOULING SYSTEMS ON SHIPS AND

CONSIDEARTION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF 1991 AMENDMENTS TO THE CONVENTION ON INTERNATIONAL MARITIME ORGANISATION

Mr J P CRONIN: Chairperson, hon members, thank you for the applause. However, it is going to be very boring and I don’t think it is going to have applauses at the end of it.

Basically, these are two simple conventions, which are both from the International Maritime Organisation. The department only recently has developed its capacity in the maritime sector and therefore there is quite a backlog of international conventions that we have not dealt with. Some members will remember that a few weeks ago we were also dealing with a couple of maritime conventions.

The first one is the International Convention on the Control of Harmful Anti-fouling Systems on Ships. I think you know about fouling. It’s not that kind of fouling by Staal Burger or Bakkies Botha. It’s the fouling that happens with ships underneath the water level where algae, barnacles and shells accumulate underneath the ships. In order to prevent that kind of fouling happening they paint anti-fouling devices onto different kinds of paint. Some of the paint that they have been using is quite toxic and dangerous therefore to ecosystems, habitat and to species.

So, in terms of this international convention those particular kinds of paints are outlawed. That’s what this convention deals with and it empowers local authorities – in our case the SA Maritime Safety Agency – to inspect ships and to stop them if needs be to make sure that they are not carrying this kind of paint.

We are dealing just with internationally flagged ships. Having been alerted to this kind of issue, we have asked the department to give us a sense of what local ships don’t fall under this convention are nonetheless using these anti-fouling paints and whether we can get a sense of that. We have not yet got a response from the department, but we are awaiting that.

The second convention is even more boring than the first one. It’s called the Amendment to the Convention on International Maritime Organisation and goes back to 1991. It recognises a committee called the Facilitation Committee which does what it is supposed to be doing – namely facilitate - and it basically recognises it as a fully-fledged committee of the IMO.

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The Portfolio Committee on Transport spent time with the department and with responsible officials who then explained to us what these conventions were about. We had no problem in agreeing to what the conventions require, and we therefore recommend to this House that we should approve them. [Applause.]

Order disposed of without debate.[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]

Mr N M NENE

Mr J P CRONIN

CONSIDERATION OF APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT ESTABLISHING THE COLLABORATIVE AFRICA BUDGET REFORM INITIATIVE IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF THE

CONSTITUTION AND

CONSIDERATION OF APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF CONVENTION ON TEMPORARY ADMISSION IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF THE CONSTITUTION

Mr N M NENE: Chairperson and hon members, these are also as boring as the ones Comrade Jeremy was dealing with.

One of the resolutions of the 52nd National Conference of the ANC is on international relations. And it reminds us that the world has changed radically over the recent years, with more people living in democratic societies - particularly in Africa. It is this situation that gives us confidence and hope that we are on the right path towards a just world and a better Africa for humankind.

It is in this spirit that the ANC continues to lead on initiatives such as the Collaborative Africa Budget Reform Initiative that we put before the House today for ratification. This is a professional network aimed at supporting African senior budget officials in their reform efforts to accelerate service delivery, improve budget management and in contributing towards the achievement of development goals.

This initiative was initially conceptualised by the Ministers of Finance of South Africa, Mozambique and Uganda and has since grown tremendously, attracting more than 20 countries across Africa since 2004 - and membership is still open and continues to grow.

We also tabled a Convention on Temporary Admission, which was adopted by the Council of the World’s Custom Organisation on 26 June 1990 in Istanbul, Turkey, and entered into force on 27 November 1993. This

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convention is one of the main international agreements of the world’s custom’s organisation that are aimed at harmonising and simplifying customs procedures.

In a sense, this convention establishes a consolidated regime governing the temporary admission of goods and means of transport and terminates and replaces all existing instruments dealing exclusively or mainly with temporary admission of goods.

Due to the strong expansion of international trade, there has been a proliferation of conventions, agreements and recommendations with the same objective, and hence this one consolidates them.

In terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution and on behalf of the Portfolio Committee on Finance, I put these two conventions before the House for ratification, after the committee has considered them and found them to be in order. I thank you. [Applause.]

Order disposed of without debate.[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]

The House adjourned at 15:36.

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