issues and dilemmas in teaching computer science and informatics courses at engineering faculties
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Ivan Luković,University of Novi Sad,Faculty of Technical Sciences
12th Workshop DAAD
Issues and Dilemmas in Teaching Computer Science and Informatics Courses at Engineering Faculties
JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Issues and Dilemmas• In Teaching CS&I at Engineering Faculties
or
• Is there a pragmatic approach to – Derive commonalities and– Iron differences?
2 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Agenda• Motivation• Scope and Minor Changes• Reaccreditation and Future Steps
JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012. 3 / 23
Motivation• New accreditation process
– 2007 – 1st accreditation cycle at Faculty of Technical Sciences (FTS) and generally in Serbia
– 2012 – the next accreditation cycle comes soon– Always open issue:
How to name and structure Computer Science and Informatics (CS&I) curriculum at FTS
– CS&I as an engineering discipline at engineering faculty?
4 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Agenda• Motivation• Scope and Minor Changes• Reaccreditation and Future Steps
JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012. 5 / 23
Scope and Minor Changes• Department of Computing and Control• Three divisions, each of with two chairs
– Control Systems (CSy)– Computer Engineering and Computer
Communications (CE)– Applied Computer Science and Informatics (CS&I)
• Applied Computer Science• Informatics
– Applied – to be formally different from Science disciplines• Formally, Computer Science at Serbian universities is an
exclusive property of faculties of science!– In reality: what is applicable vs. non-applicable in CS?
6 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Department of Computing and Control• Titles in diplomas:
– Introduced and classified formally at the level of Republic of Serbia
– Shared with Department of Electronics, Power Systems and Telecommunications
– B.Sc. in Electrical and Computer Engineering– M.Sc. in Electrical and Computer Engineering
– Can be changed ("divided"), but there is no full agreement inside community if it makes sense
7 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Department of Computing and Control
– All the time, a unified study program in Computing and Control, but
– Always, three different tracks• Control Systems (CSy), Computer Engineering and
Computer Communications (CE), (Applied) CS&I• Curriculum from 2007
– Almost 2,5 years (5 semesters) common for all three tracks
– non-uniform study program:• courses of the form: 2+2, 2+4, 3+2, 3+3, 4+4, etc.• semesters with 26 – 30 classes / week• different numbers of ECTSs assigned to the equally weighted
courses8 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Curriculum from 2010
– Derived from the previous (2007) curriculum by applying "minor changes" – up to 20% of changes• 1st and 4th years unchanged• 2nd and 3rd year changed
– A level of commonality decreased practically to 2 years only
– Study program remains non-uniform
9 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Curriculum from 2010
– 1st year:• Calculus 1 (4+4), Discrete Math. and Linear Algebra (4+4),
Program Languages and Data Structures (4+4), Physics (4+4), Fundamentals of Electrical Eng. (4+4), Computer Architecture (4+4), English 1 (3+0), English 2 (3+0)
– 2nd year:• Calculus 2 (4+4), Modelling and Simulation (4+4), Logical
Design of Computer Systems 1 (3+3), Object-Oriented Programming (4+4), Operating Systems (4+4), Automatic Control Systems (4+4), Social Aspects of Engineering (2+2), Probability and Random Processes (2+2), Real Time System Software 1 (3+3)
– 3rd year:• Methods of Optimization (4+4), ... <<elective courses>>
10 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Curriculum from 2010
– Main changes (from the viewpoint of CS&I):• Fundamentals of Electronics: became elective course
– raised to the 3rd year• Databases (4th year, 4+3), mandatory for CS&I only:
– divided into two courses: – Databases 1 (3rd year, 4+4), mandatory for all three tracks
(basics, lowered to the 3rd year) and – Databases 2 (4th year, 2+2), mandatory for CS&I only
(advanced)• Soft Computing (4th year, 4+3): introduced as a mandatory
course for CS&I only• Computing Intelligence and Web Programming (3rd year):
extended room
11 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Pros:
– Strong mathematics– General Engineering Approach– Early nurtured interdisciplinary approach
• particularly important from the CS&I point of view– Fundamentals of Electrical Engineering – do we need
it in CS&I?• Yes: Titles: Electrical and Computer Engineering• Yes: A strong requirement of industry sector in Novi Sad
– DMS – Development of Power Control Software Systems– one of the biggest consumers of our engineers
– All agree that fundamentals of databases are necessary in the core body of knowledge
12 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Contras:
– "Giant" core courses: 4+4• even two math courses together in the same semester
– Non-uniformity of study-program• limited capabilities for exchanging courses and students
– Continuous math approaches are predominant– A believe, existing at CSy and CE, that a number of
CS&I courses is "predominant" in the first two years• 4 CS courses vs. 2 CE courses and 3 CSy courses• they would like to see: 1/3+1/3+1/3 scheme, in any way
– A believe, existing at CS&I, that CS curriculum cannot be created by applying "equal participation" principle• they are strongly against 1/3+1/3+1/3 scheme
13 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Scope and Minor Changes• Already faced dilemmas:
– M.Sc. level – should we accept students from other faculties and disciplines?
– CSy: more rigid approach• just students from University of Belgrade, Faculty of
Electrical Engineering are welcomed– CS&I: quite liberal approach
• a lot of interest of students, graduated with CS or related degree from various faculties and departments at FTS
– in general, very positive current experiences– CE: pragmatically moved from more rigid to more
liberal approach• less interest, but also positive experiences
14 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Agenda• Motivation• Scope and Minor Changes• Reaccreditation and Future Steps
JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012. 15 / 23
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Still open dilemmas for the near future
– One, two or three different study programs?• Personal view:
– Many declaratively propose two or three study programs– In silence, many tends to the unified study program– Different views of younger vs. older colleagues– Different views about a number of common semesters
– If one, should CSy, CE and CS&I participate as 1/3 in the first two years?• Personal view:
– Many declare 1/3 participation as the only solution, instead of a definite separation as the final choice
– In silence, all believe that 1/3 participation is a death principle– September is a key-month to create a decision
16 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Study program framework
– Already adopted at the level of the department– B.Sc. Level - 4 years / 8 semesters– M.Sc. Level - 1,5 year / 3 semesters– Courses – just two kinds
• large courses – 6 hours / week in total, 6 ECTS– it allows different combinations: 2+4, 4+2, 3+3
• small courses – 3 hours / week in total, 3 ECTS– it allows different combinations: from 3+0 to 0+3
– Semesters:• 1 hour = 1 ECTS (always)• each semester = 30 hours = 30 ECTS
17 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Study program framework
– Already formally adopted at the level of the department
– However, some still believe that it is not appropriate • and even more, that it should be ignored in the next
accreditation process– A positive initiative from the FTS management level
• A category of referenced course is finally introduced– A course in one study program referenced (inherited as-is) from
the other study program– In this way, all courses at FTS may be declared as: public,
protected and private• Finally, a formal basis for increased level of interoperability• Practically, it imposes a general study program framework
18 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Still open dilemmas for the near future
– Current: • M.Sc. level: 1 year (2 semesters), 60 ECTS in total • 1st semester – courses (30 ECTS), 2nd semester – M.Sc.
thesis (30 ECTS)– Future, two alternatives:
• M.Sc. level of 1,5 year (3 semesters), 90 ECTS in total– 1st and 2nd semesters – courses, 60 ECTS– 3rd semester – M.Sc. thesis, 30 ECTS
• M.Sc. level of 1 year (2 semesters), 60 ECTS in total– 1st and 2nd semesters – courses, 40 ECTS– 2nd semester – M.Sc. thesis, 20 ECTS
– Students and staff are quite well motivated for 1,5 year scheme. Open issue: Ministry of Education?
19 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Other initiatives - FTS
– Explosion of various study programs is going on– A lot of study programs encompassing CS&I
disciplines• in more or less extent• wishing to exploit software engineering as an applied
discipline– Many are aware of an importance having a general
study program framework• the same or very similar to the one that we have already
formally adopted– Many are aware of a need to raise interoperability
• student and course exchanging capacity
20 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Other initiatives – Academic Community
– An emerging requirement (coming from EU and the region): to increase student mobility• even to the level of 30%-40% students' population being
exchanged between European universities– Issues of student mobility programs:
• More rigid or more liberal approach in creating equivalences between study programs and courses?
• Does student mobility serve just "for tourism" or for strong study?
– Current experiences are heterogeneous – vary from rigid to quite liberal approaches
21 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Other initiatives – Industry
– A strong requirement of a power system software company to create a customized interdisciplinary study program• better fitting to their business needs• a close relationship with Department of Electronics, Power
Systems and Telecommunications– Title alternatives:
• Power System's Software Engineering • Software Engineering in Power Systems• Software Engineering in Infrastructure Systems• Software and System Engineering
– The same general framework of study program already adopted
22 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Reaccreditation and Future Steps• Power System's Software Engineering• Questions (sometimes painful):
– Do these titles really mean the same?• Personal view: YES
– Will different organization units of FTS see these titles the same?• Personal view: NO • A special care is needed to create a "right" title
– Is it predominantly Software Engineering or Power Systems or just System Engineering curriculum, in reality?• Personal view: more than 80% it is a classical CS&I program
with a strong accent to interdisciplinary engineering topics
23 / 23JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Ivan Luković,University of Novi Sad,Faculty of Technical Sciences
12th Workshop DAAD
JCSE W-2012 / Ivan Luković Opatija, 2 – 9. 9. 2012.
Issues and Dilemmas in Teaching Computer Science and Informatics Courses at Engineering Faculties
End of Presentation
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