asa brian kramer transcript phone call nov-30-2010

8/13/2019 ASA Brian Kramer TRANSCRIPT Phone Call Nov-30-2010

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1 * * * * * * * * * *

2 NOTE: All calls on the home office business

3 telephone extension (352) 854-7807 are

4 recorded for quality assurance purposes

5 pursuant to the business use exemption of

6 Florida Statutes Chapter 934, Section

7 934.02(4)(a)(I), and the holding of Royal

8 Health Care Servs., Inc., v. Jefferson-Pilot

9 Life Insurance Company, 924 F.2d 215 (11th

10 Cir. 1991).

11 AUTOMATED ANSWERING MACHING: This call is

12 being recorded for quality assurance purposes.

13 MR. GILLESPIE: Hello.

14 MR. KRAMER: Hey, may I speak to Neil

15 Gillespie, please.

16 MR. GILLESPIE: Speaking.

17 MR. KRAMER: Mr. Gillespie, this is Brian

18 Kramer, how are you?

19 MR. GILLESPIE: Good.

20 MR. KRAMER: Mr. Gillespie, I wasn't sure, I

21 guess secretary must have miscommunicated with me.

22 I thought our meeting was going to be in person so

23 I didn't realize until I started looking at my

24 calendar that your phone number was on there and

25 that it probably meant that it was by phone.

Michael J. BorsethCourt Reporter/Legal Transcription(813) 598-2703


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1 MR. GILLESPIE: Well --

2 MR. KRAMER: How are you doing?

3 MR. GILLESPIE: The meeting was for tomorrow,

4 right?

5 MR. KRAMER: Actually, it's on my calender for

6 today.

7 MR. GILLESPIE: I have it for December 1st at

8 1:30.

9 MR. KRAMER: Okay. Well, let me check my

10 calender real quick and see if that is available

11 for me. And if it is --

12 MR. GILLESPIE: But, you know, doing it over

13 the phone might be well, because I'm down here in

14 Ocala and it's just a long ride for me to get up

15 there.

16 MR. KRAMER: I see. Okay. Okay. Well, it's

17 fine, I have time, I have a deposition that starts

18 at three o'clock. I have to leave here at about

19 2:45. So as long as our conversation today doesn't

20 take longer than from now until 2:45 we could talk

21 now and then if we need to meet in person, we can

22 certainly do that.

23 MR. GILLESPIE: That's fine, I appreciate

24 that. Let me just pull up the file here so I can

25 talk intelligently about this. I'm not that



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1 familiar with the process, so that might help.

2 MR. KRAMER: Sure. And as I said in my

3 letter, you know, the information that I have at

4 this point is certainly complete enough for me to

5 do what I need to do and my purpose of contacting

6 you was twofold. One is to make sure there wasn't

7 any other information you wanted the Bar to

8 consider and also to explain the process to you.

9 And essentially, the way the process works is

10 this. You obviously submitted a complaint and that

11 complaint went to the Bar. And there are reviewers

12 at the Bar and they make an initial determination

13 as to whether or not the complaint has enough merit

14 to it on a variety of reasons to go forward in the

15 process. This one obviously does. And so when

16 that is the case it is referred on to the Grievance

17 Committee for the purposes of investigation and to

18 determine what should happen further at that point.

19 And the Grievance Committee takes -- we

20 have -- there are nine members, three are

21 nonmembers of the Bar, six are members of the Bar.

22 And one of them -- one of the committee members is

23 assigned as an investigator. In this case that's

24 me. And that person then no longer is not really a

25 member of the committee for the purposes of voting



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1 on what should happen with this case, with the

2 grievance at that point, become an investigator.

3 And my job as the investigator is to gather

4 the information necessary to make a decision on the

5 complaint. And then present that information to

6 the Bar Grievance Committee in a neutral and

7 impartial sort of way. And then the committee

8 makes a decision on what they should do.

9 So part of what I'm doing is contacting you,

10 talking to you. I'm also going to contact and have

11 contacted, and will eventually have a meeting with

12 Mr. Bauer and speak with him. I'll gather any

13 documents that are necessary to make a

14 determination, if there are any. And then present

15 that to the committee.

16 When I present it to the committee it's

17 generally done in a sort of summary format. The

18 committee members have available to them all the

19 documentation of the file. They have already seen

20 all that. They have that. So I present it to them

21 in sort of a summary format; this is what the

22 situation is. This is what's going on. And then

23 the committee decides what should happen at that

24 point.

25 And there are a variety of things that the



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1 committee can do. One of them is to do nothing.

2 That's always a possibility. They could say that

3 they don't find any reason to continue on with the

4 grievance.

5 The next thing that they could do in order of

6 severity would be to essentially do nothing but

7 also issue what's call A Letter of Advice. Which

8 is the committee's way of saying, we're not going

9 to do anything to you, we're not going to make this

10 grievance go further than that, but we do believe

11 that what -- your conduct in the case was less than

12 what was the highest standard of conduct for an

13 attorney and here is what we think you should have

14 done as opposed to what you did.

15 And that is not discipline. It's not a form

16 of discipline. It's -- the lawyer could ignore

17 that if they wanted to, but the committee does

18 issue those letters from time to time in certain

19 types of situations.

20 The next thing that the committee could do is

21 make a finding of what's called Minor Misconduct.

22 So if the committee makes a finding of Minor

23 Misconduct, then the committee would also

24 recommend, or the Bar counsel would recommend, sort

25 of a punishment for the person, which is generally



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1 either LOMAP, which is a Law Office Management

2 Program that they come into the office and evaluate

3 and assist the attorney in making their office run

4 better. Or ethics school, which is a -- generally

5 a one day lecture on ethics that the attorney has

6 to complete. And that -- a Minor Misconduct does

7 require the attorney who is being grieved to agree

8 that -- to that sanction. If they don't, then it's

9 not an available way to end the case.

10 Then the next thing beyond a Minor Misconduct

11 is a finding of what's called a Finding of Probable

12 Cause. Which is essentially saying the committee

13 believes that there is more evidence than not that

14 the person committed some form of misconduct. That

15 essentially becomes a complaint, not unlike a

16 lawsuit, that's filed in the Court. It's a

17 petition for discipline in the Supreme Court. And

18 then it's handled like pretty much any other civil

19 lawsuit. There's no jury trial entitlement, but

20 there is a trial entitlement, you know, like any

21 other lawsuit. And it's tried by a special master

22 appointed by the Supreme Court, because it is in

23 the Supreme Court of Florida.

24 And then if the person, you know, it goes on

25 from there. If the person is found to have



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1 committed some kind of Bar violation, then there is

2 a discipline hearing. And then that goes on to the

3 Supreme Court and it can get complicated from

4 there. But that is the process in a nutshell.

5 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh.

6 MR. KRAMER: Is there any -- do you have any

7 questions about the process?

8 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, I think you have laid it

9 out. I'll go back and look over the notes that

10 I'll make and maybe I'll have some questions then.

11 I'm just looking at this document that was sent to

12 me, the Notice of Assignment of Investigating

13 Member and/or Panel.

14 MR. KRAMER: Uh-huh.

15 MR. GILLESPIE: And I guess that's the latest

16 thing. And I'm also looking at my notes with

17 Ms. Carver. It said that -- I think she said in

18 January is when there is going to be this meeting?

19 MR. KRAMER: Correct. I believe, I want to

20 say the 18th, is the -- it's a Thursday -- Tuesday

21 afternoon, I believe, is when the Bar meets and

22 this case is on the calendar in January.

23 MR. GILLESPIE: Do they just, I mean, meet by

24 themself or --

25 MR. KRAMER: Correct.



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1 MR. GILLESPIE: So --

2 MR. KRAMER: It's not a public hearing, it's

3 confidential.

4 MR. GILLESPIE: Would I attend that or could I

5 attend that?

6 MR. KRAMER: Not that hearing. If there is

7 going to be a hearing on the case, like a trial,

8 sort of a small trial, then that is something that

9 the complainant would be invited to and would

10 actually be required to attend.

11 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. Okay. So that's the

12 next meeting in January that the committee will

13 make some decision about this matter.

14 MR. KRAMER: Probably. Now, I could -- it's

15 theoretically possible that I could present the

16 case to the committee and the committee could tell

17 me, we would like you to do further investigation,

18 we would like you to gather further documentation,

19 go back and speak with other witnesses, if that is

20 necessary.

21 I don't know that that is the case with this

22 particular case. But it's always possible. There

23 are no real time limitations, no one is in any kind

24 of hurry to deal with these cases. So, you know,

25 if they feel like they need more information before



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1 they make a decision they certainly will tell me

2 that and I will go back and do it.

3 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. I guess the other thing

4 is, I guess in some Bar complaints they are simple

5 in the fact that, for example, if somebody, if an

6 attorney just stole money from a trust fund.


8 MR. GILLESPIE: You're focusing on that one

9 issue. In this Bar complaint it kind of focuses on

10 the entire attorney/client relationship between

11 Mr. Bauer and myself over the period of a couple

12 years.


14 MR. GILLESPIE: And you know, there's

15 hundreds, perhaps thousands, of documents.

16 Hundreds of e-mails, all kinds of evidence. So

17 it's just difficult to whittle that down, at least

18 from my perspective as an outsider looking in at

19 the process.


21 MR. GILLESPIE: The other thing that disturbed

22 me about the complaint, how the complaint process

23 worked, was the fact that Mr. Rodems, the other

24 attorney from the other side, injected himself into

25 the complaint process.



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1 MR. KRAMER: What is it about that that upsets

2 you?

3 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, it just seems untoward

4 that he is now working for the benefit of his

5 former adversary. I don't understand that.

6 MR. KRAMER: Well, I'm not sure that I

7 understand exactly why it would upset you. The Bar

8 is going to gather information from anyone who we,

9 the Bar, thinks is -- has relevant information

10 about the circumstance. And not unlike the fact

11 that you are welcome to present whatever you would

12 like in support of your allegation that Mr. Bauer

13 has committed misconduct, Mr. Bauer is entitled to

14 present whatever he would like to say he did not

15 commit misconduct.

16 What information the Bar actually will

17 consider is up to the Bar. It's not up to

18 Mr. Bauer. It's not up to Mr. Rodems. And it's

19 certainly not up to anyone else to tell the Bar

20 what they're to consider and what they're not to

21 consider --

22 MR. GILLESPIE: Right.

23 MR. KRAMER: -- in determining whether or not

24 there is probable cause to, you know, to determine

25 whether there is probable cause. Once the case is



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1 in civil court it is subject to the Rules of

2 Evidence.

3 MR. GILLESPIE: Yeah, I guess my objection is

4 just more of a, you know, layman's complaint.

5 Certainly the Bar can consider whatever it wants.

6 The problem with Mr. Rodems, and just to give

7 you a little bit of my background. I have known

8 this Barker, Rodems and Cook firm for about 10

9 years now. So I'm very familiar with their

10 reputation and tactics.

11 And also, prior to moving to Florida I

12 operated a business in Pennsylvania, a car

13 dealership for many years. And I have used a lot

14 of attorneys. I'm somewhat familiar with that

15 process.

16 Mr. Rodems really uniquely stands out as a

17 complete and utter liar and there is no tactic

18 beneath him. So that is the problem with Rodems.


20 MR. GILLESPIE: He's just -- and I think he

21 did almost a disservice to Mr. Bauer who he is

22 apparently trying to help, in that, you know,

23 Mr. Bauer apparently adopted some of these

24 ridiculous talking points of Mr. Rodems which are

25 pretty easily disproved. Whether or not the Bar is



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1 going to look at that is another question, but I

2 don't think that helped Mr. Bauer by incorporating

3 a lot of, you know, falsehoods into his responses.

4 MR. KRAMER: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well, are there

5 any specific examples of things that you would want

6 me to note for the Bar to take back to the

7 committee to say, you know, I spoke with

8 Mr. Gillespie and he noted that the following

9 things were false in Mr. Rodems' response?

10 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, I made a, you know, I

11 responded to all of this in writing and --

12 MR. KRAMER: I read it.

13 MR. GILLESPIE: -- it's pointed out there.

14 MR. KRAMER: Okay. Well, that's fine. And

15 that information I have read it and all the

16 committee members will have that available to them.

17 And I certainly am going to review that with him

18 when I present the case to the committee.

19 But as far as your concern about Mr. Rodems

20 and his ability to make comment or to provide

21 information to the Bar, I don't know that there is

22 anything I can really do to, you know, make you

23 feel better about that. It's sort of the protocol

24 and procedure that's followed on a normal basis.




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1 MR. KRAMER: And it's really probably not

2 going to be any different in this case.

3 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. I mean, I -- of

4 course the Bar wasn't involved with Mr. Rodems'

5 former firm, but I think with his -- when I first

6 got involved with that firm, if the Bar had taken

7 action on matters that were in the press it would

8 have at least alerted me as a client that these

9 guys were outrageous.

10 I mean, Mr. Alpert, his partner, you know,

11 threw a cup of coffee on opposing counsel during a

12 mediation. That doesn't get any reprimand from the

13 Bar? It just seems outrageous.

14 MR. KRAMER: Are you asking me that?

15 MR. GILLESPIE: Pardon?

16 MR. KRAMER: Are you asking me whether or not

17 in theory if that occurred would that render a

18 reprimand from the Bar?

19 MR. GILLESPIE: Yes.

20 MR. KRAMER: I suppose it would. I mean, it

21 certainly could be a crime as well, it could be

22 battery to do that.

23 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, that's what the police

24 report said.

25 MR. KRAMER: Uh-huh. Yeah, I suppose. I



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1 don't know. Of course that is not before this

2 committee, but I certainly think that the Bar would

3 be concerned about physical violence between

4 attorneys.

5 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. Well, I mean, nothing

6 ever happened with it.

7 MR. KRAMER: I don't know. I don't really --

8 I wish I could comment more. I don't know. I

9 mean, because I really don't know about the

10 circumstances that you're discussing. I mean, I'm

11 considering it on a hypothetical level.

12 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, a lot of this which I am

13 telling you now is in my responses.

14 MR. KRAMER: Uh-huh, I know. Oh, I have read

15 it, yeah.

16 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. So with that kind of

17 background with the Bar just ignoring that, this

18 doesn't give me much confidence that the Bar is

19 going to do anything in this case. The only thing

20 that I see --

21 MR. KRAMER: Well, what I can tell you with

22 regard to that, other than to tell you that, you

23 know, the way that, you know, that justice is

24 usually dispensed in our particular culture is

25 through the following protocol and procedure. And



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1 you know, that's why we really call it procedural

2 justice, because you can't guaranty an outcome.

3 All you can really guaranty is that if a procedure

4 is followed then that is procedural due process.

5 That's procedurally being fair to a person.

6 Outcomes, you know, because it's a human

7 system and it's run by humans, the outcome itself

8 can be flawed. Many times people are dissatisfied

9 with the outcomes of our justice system, whether

10 it's civil or criminal. Or in your case this is

11 more of an administrative situation. But if we

12 follow the process that's essentially the best that

13 we can do. And while I can't assure you that you

14 will be satisfied with the outcome, I can assure

15 you that we will follow the process that is

16 presided by law.

17 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. I'm sure you will.

18 But again, I'm looking at it as an outsider. And I

19 just, from what I know of the Bar, they usually

20 don't do much.

21 Another case that I'm familiar with is an

22 attorney that stole almost a million dollars from

23 his clients.


25 MR. GILLESPIE: He faced no discipline. He



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1 was allowed to resign with leave to reapply in five

2 years. And he received no jail time. So you know,

3 these are the cases I'm familiar with.

4 MR. KRAMER: As am I. I certainly don't

5 disagree with you that there are cases like that

6 that occur where one looking at it from the outside

7 would be alarmed or dismayed by the lack of

8 discipline handed out by the Bar. Those do exist,

9 I agree.

10 MR. GILLESPIE: The only thing I see that is

11 working against Mr. Bauer is that he took up

12 litigation against another attorney. So that I

13 don't think is going to be helpful to him, but

14 again, that's just my view as an outsider.

15 MR. KRAMER: Well, I can tell you this, I

16 don't think that that is something that the Bar is

17 going to be concerned about. I have never in any

18 meeting I have ever been in, never heard any sort

19 of bias against an attorney because they litigated

20 against another attorney on, you know, one attorney

21 suing another. I haven't heard that in a Bar

22 meeting I have ever been involved with. I can

23 understand why that might be your perception. I

24 think that there are other things that are more

25 concerning for Mr. Bauer with your particular



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1 circumstance.

2 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, a lot of things in this

3 world aren't spoken. Some of the most powerful

4 statements go unspoken.

5 MR. KRAMER: I agree.

6 MR. GILLESPIE: But other than that, that's my

7 view of things.

8 MR. KRAMER: Okay.

9 MR. GILLESPIE: I don't really have many

10 expectations. Really this is a matter between the

11 Bar and Mr. Bauer.


13 MR. GILLESPIE: I view myself as just a casual

14 observer at this point.

15 MR. KRAMER: And that's a very good attitude

16 to take towards this, the situation. I appreciate

17 it. I think that that's the right attitude to

18 take, you know. But I'll tell you what, when I

19 speak with Mr. Bauer, if he raises any issues that

20 I think need to be readdressed with you, I would be

21 happy to get back in touch with you, either in

22 writing or in person, by telephone to discuss it

23 and see if, you know, if there's any comment you

24 have. You know, most of the time the things that

25 people are most interested in in these type of



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1 situations are fees that they paid returned to

2 them, those type of things. The Bar doesn't have

3 any jurisdiction to handle that problem and it's

4 something that has to go on between you and the

5 attorney.


7 MR. KRAMER: So, you know, most of the time

8 people are really -- they're dissatisfied to begin

9 with on that level, you know, they're saying, well,

10 you can't really do what I want. You know, that is

11 not even a possible outcome. So, you know, I think

12 you understand this quite well. You know, I think

13 you understand the nature of the circumstances.


15 MR. KRAMER: But if you have any questions,

16 you're free to call me, let me know. I'll be happy

17 to get back with you.

18 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, you know, just on that

19 issue.

20 MR. KRAMER: If I have anymore questions I

21 certainly will call you.

22 MR. GILLESPIE: Yeah, just on that issue

23 because you raised it, I'm familiar with that,

24 you're not in a position to return fees. However,

25 an attorney I spoke with, actually consulted and



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1 paid him to review this matter, it was his opinion

2 that since Mr. Bauer constructively changed his

3 billing from an hourly rate to a contingent fee

4 basis, that that was grounds to reevaluate the fees

5 in this matter, because there was a change.

6 MR. KRAMER: You mean in civil court?

7 MR. GILLESPIE: Pardon?

8 MR. KRAMER: In -- like in civil court or for

9 the Bar to do so?

10 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, you know, that's a legal

11 question. That's what this attorney told me as --

12 MR. KRAMER: All I can tell you,

13 Mr. Gillespie, is that I have never seen a

14 circumstance where the Bar has even discussed the

15 idea of making an attorney do something with fees.

16 Like return fees, that type of thing. It's just

17 not something that comes up.

18 Now, if the attorney you spoke with was

19 telling you, I think you could sue him in civil

20 court and recover your fees because he changed the

21 contract, a contingency fee contract to a fee

22 for -- from a fee for services to a contingency fee

23 contract and that because he did that and made not

24 recovery on your behalf you would be entitled to

25 return of the fees that you paid. I think he has a



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1 sound legal theory. You know, I don't -- I can't

2 criticize that legal theory. Whether or not that

3 is factually true in your circumstance, I don't

4 have the first clue.

5 MR. GILLESPIE: Yeah, and that is not

6 exactly --

7 MR. KRAMER: As far as the Bar is concerned, I

8 know of nothing that would allow the Bar to require

9 Mr. Bauer to return fees to you.

10 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. Well, that's not

11 exactly how it was presented, but I believe your

12 statement that the Bar is not going to get involved

13 in having an attorney return fees.


15 MR. GILLESPIE: If they let an attorney steal

16 a million dollars from clients that the attorney

17 had no claim over without mandating he return that,

18 they're certainly not going to get involved in

19 fees, right?

20 MR. KRAMER: Yeah, and understand that, you

21 know, what you're talking about with this trust

22 fund theft, it's also a criminal offense. And I

23 don't know whether that particular attorney was

24 prosecuted or not prosecuted.

25 MR. GILLESPIE: There was five counts of grant



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1 theft.


3 MR. GILLESPIE: The Judge determined that, I

4 mean, he pled guilty so there was no question about

5 the guilt. He pled guilty to five counts of grand

6 theft and received probation.

7 MR. KRAMER: Right.

8 MR. GILLESPIE: No jail time.

9 MR. KRAMER: Just as an aside or a side note,

10 you also should understand that if he was adjudged

11 guilty, meaning the judge found that he committed

12 the offense and adjudged him to be guilty and he

13 was a convicted felon, no convicted felon can be a

14 member of the Florida Bar. So that person,

15 regardless of whether they were allowed to reapply,

16 wouldn't be eligible to reapply because they

17 couldn't pass the background check. You can't be a

18 convicted felon and be a lawyer in Florida.

19 Even if the person had adjudication withheld,

20 meaning that the judge made no direct finding of

21 guilt, placed him on probation, you still when you

22 reapply under those circumstances, you're suspended

23 more than 91 days.

24 If you reapply to the Bar you still have to

25 pass the background check. The could be very



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1 difficult if you have five counts of grand theft in

2 your background, if not impossible.

3 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. Well, you know, I

4 just don't know enough about the law to respond to

5 that. I'm just saying what the facts were at the,

6 you know, at the trial. I mean, there was a trial.

7 MR. KRAMER: Uh-huh, yeah, yeah. Well, and

8 you know, like you say, sometimes it's easier to

9 talk about these things in the abstract than it is

10 to talk about -- unless you have the entire

11 information in front of you it's hypothetical and

12 you're speaking in the abstract. You know, if you

13 have the entire file in front of you it sometimes

14 becomes much more clear.

15 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. Well, I'll go over what

16 we discussed today. If I have any other

17 questions --

18 MR. KRAMER: Absolutely, give me a call.

19 MR. GILLESPIE: There's a lot of documentation

20 that because of the limits of 25 pages in responses

21 it wasn't able to be put forth.


23 MR. GILLESPIE: But that's all I can tell you.


25 MR. GILLESPIE: All right. So --



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1 MR. KRAMER: Yeah.

2 MR. GILLESPIE: I guess --

3 MR. KRAMER: I don't know, Mr. Gillespie, I

4 don't know that that 25 page limit applies now.

5 Okay. Understand that I believe that that 25 page

6 limit only applies to the initial complaint, in

7 that you can reference, you can make reference to

8 documents to be quote available upon request. So

9 that the Bar investigator can look at 25 pages of

10 information and make a determination as to whether

11 or not they want more information.

12 Now, if you want to forward me whatever

13 information you want the Bar to consider, you can

14 forward it to me. If it's more than 25 pages, it's

15 fine.

16 MR. GILLESPIE: All right, well, I know there

17 were Mr. Bauer's reply and my rebuttal were also

18 limited to 25 pages.


20 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. You know what, I made

21 the original --

22 MR. KRAMER: I don't believe that that applies

23 at this point in the proceedings, Mr. Gillespie. I

24 think that at this point if there is other

25 information you want me to consider, you want me to



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1 present to the Bar that supports your claims that

2 you think they should consider, I would encourage

3 you to present it to me.

4 Understand that, you know, if you present to

5 me, you know, 10,000 pages of documents, it's very

6 helpful for me to have some form of index or

7 guideline as to which specific documents you

8 should -- I should consider. You know, the

9 totality of the circumstances type thing that you

10 were kind of alluding to at the beginning of the

11 conversation, that is a very difficult thing to

12 deal with from the Bar's perspective because the

13 Bar looks at specific instances of conduct; you did

14 this act and this act. It's either violative of

15 the rules or it is not violative of the rules. To

16 say that your entire conduct in some way generally

17 fell short of what's expected, I have never seen

18 anything like that. We generally look to very

19 specific instances of conduct.

20 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, right, you know, when I

21 filed the complaint initially I mistakenly sent

22 more than 25 pages.


24 MR. GILLESPIE: In fact, it was mostly

25 exhibits and it came to about 100 pages.



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2 MR. GILLESPIE: So that was returned. And I

3 guess I'm guessing the original complaint was about

4 17 or 18 pages and I just selected a few exhibits

5 to attach.

6 MR. KRAMER: Mr. Gillespie, if it's a hundred

7 pages I would be glad to read it.

8 MR. GILLESPIE: And all it is is documents,

9 you know, evidence.


11 MR. GILLESPIE: So I'm sure I still have that

12 here in the file. That would be easy just to pop

13 that in the mail to you.

14 MR. KRAMER: Go ahead and do that.

15 MR. GILLESPIE: In fact, I had it all put on

16 CD as well.

17 MR. KRAMER: Then send me a CD and I can look

18 at it that way. You don't even have to send me

19 paper copies.

20 MR. GILLESPIE: Uh-huh. So --

21 MR. KRAMER: I mean, a hundred pages is

22 nothing. If you're going to send me 10,000, that

23 is a lot of pages for me to go through. A hundred

24 pages I can read over.

25 MR. GILLESPIE: You know, one of the -- just



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1 off the top of my head, a couple of -- one of the

2 most serious problems was when Mr. Bauer failed to

3 inform me of the requirements to fill out a Fact

4 Information Sheet, which in turn led to me being

5 found in contempt of court.

6 MR. KRAMER: Yes.

7 MR. GILLESPIE: And then I guess he borrowed

8 one of Rodems' talking points for an excuse about

9 that.


11 MR. GILLESPIE: That was a real problem.


13 MR. GILLESPIE: And then later on when he

14 agreed to do this as a contingency and he refused

15 to sign the contingency agreement or do it as a

16 contingency. Because when the documents arrived he

17 also sent me a release, which we did not talk

18 about. I just felt that if I signed the release

19 that he would just throw the case to get rid of it.

20 So I didn't sign a release. And -- but I did sign

21 and return to him the contingent fee agreement and

22 I never heard back from him --


24 MR. GILLESPIE: -- on that issue.

25 MR. KRAMER: Well, if you want to send me



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1 documentation along those lines I would be happy to

2 review it.

3 MR. GILLESPIE: Well, yeah, you know, that

4 was -- that's in the hundred pages, I believe.

5 MR. KRAMER: Well, I would be happy to review

6 those hundred pages for you.

7 MR. GILLESPIE: I'll get that in the mail and

8 we'll go from there.

9 MR. KRAMER: Okay, Mr. Gillespie. Well, if

10 anything else comes up please feel free to give me

11 a call or, you know, if you review your notes in

12 this conversation and something triggers other

13 questions in your mind, I would be happy to talk

14 with you again.

15 MR. GILLESPIE: Okay. So just to clarify, our

16 meeting for tomorrow is off then.

17 MR. KRAMER: Yes. Although, if you feel like

18 you need to come down here and meet with me in

19 person, I will make -- I will keep the meeting

20 tomorrow or I'll make another appointment for you.

21 MR. GILLESPIE: No, it's better, because it's

22 too difficult for me to get down there, if we can

23 do it by phone.

24 MR. KRAMER: Okay.

25 MR. GILLESPIE: I'm not in good health and



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1 that is a lot of traveling.

2 MR. KRAMER: I understand.

3 MR. GILLESPIE: Thank you, sir. I appreciate

4 your call.

5 MR. KRAMER: Take care, Mr. Gillespie.

6 MR. GILLESPIE: All right.

7 MR. KRAMER: Bye bye.

8 MR. GILLESPIE: Bye.

9 (Whereupon, the above recording was

10 concluded.)

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1 C-E-R-T-I-F-I-C-A-T-E

2 STATE OF FLORIDA

3 COUNTY OF HILLSBOROUGH

4

5 I, Michael J. Borseth, Court Reporter

6 for the Circuit Court of the Thirteenth Judicial

7 Circuit of the State of Florida, in and for

8 Hillsborough County, DO HEREBY CERTIFY, that I was

9 authorized to and did transcribe a tape/CD recording of

10 the proceedings and evidence in the above-styled cause,

11 as stated in the caption hereto, and that the foregoing

12 pages constitute an accurate transcription of the tape

13 recording of said proceedings and evidence, to the best

14 of my ability.

15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

16 in the City of Tampa, County of Hillsborough, State of

17 Florida, this 7 April 2011.

18 MICHAEL J. BORSETH, Court Reporter

19

20 ___________________________________

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asa brian kramer transcript phone call nov-30-2010

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