book 5 – questionnaires
DESCRIPTION
Book Questionnaires & Interviews 05 1Book5,ItMustExpandProject–Questionnaires&Interviews There is an interim exhibition in February as part of the course, I decided to use this as an opportunity for research, choosing 8 quotes from different designers. Asked people to vote if they either didn’t know, agreed Book 5, It Must Expand Project – Questionnaires & Interviews 02 2TRANSCRIPT
1Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
Book
Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
05
It MUST Expand project
2 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
There is an inter im exhib i t ion in
February as part of the course, I
decided to use th is as an opportuni ty
for research, choosing 8 quotes f rom
di fferent designers. Asked people to
vote i f they e i ther d idn’t know, agreed
or d isagreed about each quote. The
resul ts are d isplayed in an infographic,
on the fo l lowing page. The resul ts are
a lmost ent i re ly f rom students at Grays
School of Art .
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3Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
The i t c lear that the major i ty of people
agreed with the quotes, some of the
quest ions had far more responses than
others, but at f i rst i t seems that the
resul ts are reasonably conclus ive. But I
can’t he lp but fee l that there’s more to
these resul ts.
The three ( top two and bottom r ight )
quotes with the b igger responses
agreeing could be considered the more
stra ight forward statements. They each
descr ibe very d i rect responses, broadly
expla in ing a s imple problem or s imple
solut ion.
The quotes that got fewer responses; I
fe l t that those quotes were perhaps the
more provocat ive unusual statements.
For example the quote bottom lef t f rom
Kather ine McCoy:
“Design educat ion most of ten t ra ins
students to th ink of themselves as
passive arb i ters of the message
between the c l ient/sender and
audience/receiver rather than as
advocates for the message content or
the audience.”
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4 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
This quote is quest ion ing how design
educat ion funct ions, and accuses
students of not th ink ing and just being
passive in the i r work, and not analys ing
i t ’s effect . The responses to th is are
a lmost even but g iven the overwhelming
major i t ies on the other quotes, th is
quote seems to have spl i t responses.
The other quote that takes interest
is the only one that the major i ty
d isagreed. The statement f rom Nancy
Bernard:
“Design is at the bottom of the
capi ta l is t food chain. Audiences nei ther
know nor care who we are. And the
people who h i re us th ink what we do is
basica l ly stupid, even though they have
fun doing i t wi th us. . . as i f you d idn’t
know.”
Obviously th is is qui te a provocat ive
statement, i t ’s easy to understand why
people would d isagree with th is. But I
can’t he lp but th ink that there’s some
truth in th is, speaking f rom personal
exper ience, deal ings that I ’ve had with
var ious demographics in doing a p iece
of design for them. There has a lways
had to be a preface descr ib ing what
graphic design is and redef in ing the
br ie f . W ith in the media and then nei ther
graphic design or graphic designers are
ta lked about or even rea l ly ment ioned.
The impact and inf luence of design is
s ign i f icant but what Nancy Bernard is
say ing is that i t ’s not recognised as
such, I would agree with th is statement.
The last quote to d iscuss is the top le f t
by Delyth Morgan:
“Who you’re work ing for, who you’re
t ry ing to communicate wi th, and how
you choose to do that , what k ind of
tools you use – even the k ind of paper
you use is a statement and that ’s before
you even put anyth ing on i t . ”
This quote is the only one not to have
any ‘don’t know’ answers, i t a lso has
the largest number of responses and
the largest major i ty agreeing. So what
makes th is quote stand out?
I th ink the most obvious d i fference is
that th is is the only quote to advocate
being ‘green’ by ment ioning paper.
No other quote advocates recycl ing or
being green, they a l l d iscuss something
about the impact of des ign on society.
Is the reason as d isappoint ing as
people saw the word paper and agreed?
I hope not.
Compared to the others i t doesn’t a
part icu lar ly compel l ing argument, by a
wel l known person, part icu lar ly concise
or unique, i t wasn’t even as s imple as
i t was the f i rst quote on the le f t of the
poster therefore most people would see
i t , i t was s lap bang in the middle. So
i t does seem that i t advocat ing paper
choice is the main d i fference.
Is that the problem with design as Anne
Bush says (which, inc identa l ly got a
mixed response) :
“ I ’ve a lways fe l t a certa in unease
with the ways in which the design
profess ion has f ramed not ions of socia l
responsib i l i ty. Frequent ly def ined by
pro-bono designs for nonprof i t agencies
or the use of recycled paper and soy
based inks, the design profess ion, in
many cases l imi ts socia l responsib i l i ty
to acts of benevolence or good wi l l . ”
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5Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
As part of my research I wanted to f ind
out some opin ions and t ry and gain
some advice f rom other credib le people
and organisat ions.
The f i rst batch of emai ls were sent to
the fo l lowing people:
MSPs for Aberdeen Ci ty:
Richard Baker – Scott ish labour
Lewis Macdonald – Scott ish labour
Al ison McInnes – L im Dems
Creat ive Scot land:
Creat ive Scot land – genera l enquir ies
Amanda Catto – Port fo l io Manager
Helena Ward – Port fo l io Manager
Design Counci l :
Design Counci l – genera l enquir ies
Rebecca May
They were contacted asking the
fo l lowing quest ions:
– How do you th ink design eth ics wi l l
progress and develop in the short and
long term future in Scott ish design
pract ice?
– Do you see any part icu lar negat ive
or posi t ive points about the impact of
des ign eth ics on society?
I received two responses f rom these
contacts, f rom
Hel lo Ia in,
Apologies for tak ing a whi le to get back
to you. As i t is coming to the end of
the f inancia l year, we have been rather
busy!
To let you know a l i t t le about my
background, I have a Masters in Design
f rom DJCAD, Dundee.
Having spoken to my managers, we
agreed that the quest ions you are
ask ing are rather complex, a lmost essay
sty le quest ions. We advise that you
break down the quest ions based on
speci f ic issues in design eth ics, g iv ing
more context to the quest ions and
consider ing the audience your designing
for too. Is i t just Graphic Designers
your pack is for? Or the wider design
community?
As you are creat ing a resource pack for,
I adv ise that you t ry to chat to as many
pract i t ioners as possib le ( f ree lance and
work ing in organisat ions etc) . Those
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6 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
involved in pol icy/research wi l l have
some answers around quest ions in th is
area, and wi l l prov ide a sol id base for
your pro ject , but you need to quest ion
who are you designing for, and what
pract ica l benef ic ia l in format ion do they
require. In depth interv iews may be a
way of hav ing a conversat ion around
the quest ions you have asked, and
wi l l a l low the opportuni ty to get a rea l
perspect ive on work ing pract ice.
Coming f rom a serv ice/socia l des ign
background (a l though I studied my
undergrad as a jewel ler ! ) I f ind th is book
usefu l ‘Th is is Serv ice Design Think ing’
ht tp:// th is isserv icedesignth ink ing.
com Al though focused on serv ice
design, there may be design methods
that could enhance the development
of your pro ject , part icu lar ly wi th those
indiv iduals you are designing for. From
your pro ject descr ipt ion, i t seems you
are in theory designing/prov id ing a
‘serv ice’ for designers wi th the output
being the k i t /pack!
Looking at examples of other
‘Toolk i ts’ such as Nestas Fashion
Design k i tht tp://www.nesta.org.
uk/news_and_features/resources/
assets/ features/a l l iance_fashion_
and_manufactur ingbrtoolk i t could
help in form the format of your own
resource pack/toolk i t , such as ‘Code of
Pract ice’ .
Cul tura l Enterpr ise off ice a lso have
advisors for those work ing in the
Creat ive Industr ies, ht tp://www.
cul tura lenterpr iseoff ice.co.uk/websi te/
defaul t .asp?menu=advice&page_
sel=advice&menu_2_sel=2&menu_3_
sel=0 but again I would recommend you
breakdown the quest ions you are ask ing
by being speci f ic and g iv ing context
around each one.
I hope th is in format ion and feedback is
usefu l .
I know what a daunt ing t ime your f ina l
year can be, so i f you have any other
quest ions fee l f ree to get back in touch.
Regards,
L isa
Lisa Murphy | Development Off icer
Creat ive Scot land
This response was somewhat helpfu l ,
but I rea l ised f rom the response that
I was possib ly ask ing the wrong
quest ions and people.
Though there are a lot of he lpfu l
comments and l inks to look at other
examples, L isa Murphy r ight ly points
out that I need to narrow my quest ions
more, and get more speci f ic . As wel l
as target ing more speci f ic people, l ike
designers, organisat ions and companies
that might be creat ing resources l ike
th is or that would prospect ive rec ip ients
of the f ina l product.
So the next stage was to contact
profess ionals and organisat ions, wi th
more speci f ic quest ions. I contacted
designers that I knew personal ly.
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7Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
Indiv idual des igners:
Asa Rodger – Graphic designer at F i f th
Ring Design, Aberdeen
Alex Baker – a photographer, des igner,
cartoonist and former archi tect , based
in-house at a internat ional miss ion
agency.
Mart in Parker – Senior designer/studio
manager at The Gatehouse - design &
pr int consul tancy, Aberdeen
David F leck – An archi tecture student,
a lso an accompl ished i l lustrator, on
p lacement at Glasgow 2014 Archi tects.
Malcolm Curr ie – Malky Curr ie is an
establ ished graphic designer, i l lustrator
and a l l round v isual communicator.
Based in-house at a internat ional
miss ion agency.
Alexandra Lofthoue – Graphic designer
at F i f teen Design, Nott ingham
Robin I re land – Manager of Pepperf ish
Creat ive Design Studio.
The emai l sent conta ined these
quest ions:
– Who is your favour i te designer and
why?
– What do you f ind the b iggest
chal lenge is as a designer?
– What do you f ind is the most effect ive
way to engage you on a topic you’re
less fami l iar wi th?
– What do you see as the posi t ive and
negat ive impacts of graphic design on
cul ture and society?
– Where would you draw the l ine on
a pro ject that you wouldn’t do due to
eth ica l reasons?
– What’s the most engaging piece of
design you’ve seen recent ly?
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Alex Baker:
1. Who is your favour i te designer and
why?
My favour i te would be Shepard Fai rey
of Obey Giant. He started gett ing rea l ly
wel l -known when I was in Univers i ty so
I ’ve been a fan s ince before he became
the g lobal brand. I ’m a lso a fan of David
Carson (behind Ray Gun magazine) who
was a lso seminal dur ing my vars i ty days
as was Vaughan Ol iver, the man behind
the look of the 4AD record label . I l ike
them al l for d i f ferent reasons. Shepard
because of h is pol i t ics (socia l is t , le f t-
leaning, counter-cul ture, protest ) and
strong sov iet-era aesthet ic (des ign as
c lear tool of mass communicat ion) .
Carson because of h is typography -
he makes fonts and type become the
design i tse l f . Ol iver because of h is
abi l i ty to evoke emot ion and memorable
moods - more an art ist than a designer
I suppose.
2. What do you f ind the b iggest
chal lenge is as a designer?
Finding a benef ic ia l symbiot ic c l ient/
designer re lat ionship wi th shared ideals
and aesthet ics
3. What do you f ind is the most
effect ive way to engage you on a topic
you’re less fami l iar wi th?
Make i t funny. Try to look for what
would make you laugh or th ink i t ’s cool
4. What do you see as the posi t ive and
negat ive impacts of graphic design on
cul ture and society?
Overa l l , graphic design is largely a
negat ive force in society. Before you
th ink I ’ve gone mad, here’s why. The
vast , and I do mean vast , major i ty of
graphic design is shal low, temporary,
superf ic ia l , eas i ly- forgotten and more
of ten than not the s l ick packaging
of poisonous adverts/market ing
campaigns. However, I would make the
argument that that ’s l ike shoot ing the
messenger for the message. Graphic
design is just a tool for communicat ion
- change the message and suddenly
i t becomes a more posi t ive force. The
c loser graphic design gets to art the
more last ing i ts impact. The ‘great’
examples of graphic design ( the ones
they’ l l keep for the museums) fu l f i l
that requi rement. In a nutshel l : graphic
design’s overuse and misuse has made
i t a negat ive force - we could do with
fewer f lyers and bi l lboards (a la Sao
Paulo) . However, i t ’s core purpose is
st i l l very posi t ive.
5. Where would you draw the l ine on
a pro ject that you wouldn’t do due to
eth ica l reasons?
The c l ient . I t ’s a l l about the c l ient .
I f they stand for ev i l th ings or doing
th ings in an ev i l away then run. Run.
Run.
6. What’s the most engaging piece of
design you’ve seen recent ly?
Gosh.. . recent ly? The T ideswel l School
of Food ( f rom the weekend). The
websi te’s okay but the i r v is i tor centre
and logo branding meant you could
immediate ly spot the i r products a l l over
the town and you were a lways cur ious
about what i t a l l meant.
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9Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
This response were very helpfu l A lex
c lear ly agrees with the reasoning behind
th is pro ject as he states in h is reply to
quest ion 4.
“Overa l l , graphic design is largely a
negat ive force in society. . . graphic
design is shal low, temporary,
superf ic ia l , eas i ly- forgotten and more
of ten than not the s l ick packaging
of poisonous adverts/market ing
campaigns.”
Though he makes the overarching point
that ,
“Graphic design is just a tool for
communicat ion - change the message
and suddenly i t becomes a more
posi t ive force.”
This is the main point that graphic
design is a tool , a powerfu l tool . I t
has been abused and misused by the
media.
Malcolm Currie:
1.Who is your favour i te designer and
why?
I ’m the epi tome of a 21st century
postmodern designer I th ink. I don’t
tend to pay attent ion to designers. I
just t rawl design b logs and th ink, oh
that ’s n ice I ’ l l n ick that for inspi rat ion.
Recent ly I came across a dude Tom
Lane http://www.gingermonkeydesign.
com/
Love h is stuff . The attent ion to deta i l
and doing everyth ing f rom scratch of ten
by hand is rare and impress ive.
I l ike Shepard Fai rey, Mi l ton Glaser
and George Lois. I love designers that
have a b latant agenda and actual ly care
about affect ing posi t ive change through
the i r work and inf luence.
2.What do you f ind the b iggest
chal lenge is as a designer?
When c l ients a v is ion and my own
c lash. The worst is i f they hate i t and i t
turns out we have d i fferent object ives.
But a lso, of ten I ’ l l produce a p iece of
work and my bosses/ c l ients are happy
with i t but i t might wel l be mediocre.
I t ’s great to have my stuff l iked but i t ’s
even better when work ing with a great
c l ient/art d i rector/ edi tor who is rea l ly
into design and rea l ly wants to push for
something rea l ly great. I t ’s somet imes
easy to sett le for something average
otherwise.
3. What do you f ind is the most
effect ive way to engage you on a topic
you’re less fami l iar wi th?
Give i t to me in a medium I en joy. I f you
put i t in a funny/pretty poster. Or in a
v i ra l v ideo that is worth watching cos
i t ’s funny or beaut i fu l ly done. Or maybe
i f everyone’s ta lk ing about i t I ’ l l fee l that
I need to get in formed. Or i f people I
respect or l ike th ink i t ’s important.
4. What do you see as the posi t ive and
negat ive impacts of graphic design on
cul ture and society?
Big quest ion. At i t ’s best i t makes
beaut i fu l ar t commercia l ly v iable. I
guess with in a capi ta l is t system good
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10 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
work makes money for c l ients therefore
good work wi l l be out there and people
wi l l see i t who would otherwise not
engage with v isual ar t (see becks v ier
music inspi res art 2010 campaign, or
Absolute vodka) . Now those examples
are ideal because what are the th ings
that great design te l ls us is most
important in l i fe? Booze. Is that ok?
In i t ’s se l f des ign makes the wor ld a
better p lace, a more beaut i fu l , creat ive
thought provoking p lace. I ’m tempted
to say there are l i t t le negat ive impacts
of graphic design. However the negat ive
impacts of advert is ing are HUGE and
graphic design is a pr imary advert is ing
tool . Advert is ing creates a cul ture in
the west of depress ion, greed and
insecur i ty through i t ’s harmful messages
and manufactur ing needs in people that
the i r product c la ims to fu l f i l .
5. Where would you draw the l ine on
a pro ject that you wouldn’t do due to
eth ica l reasons?
Because I care about what I do then I
pursue (end up in the r ight c i rc les of )
the k ind of work I l ike. Work ing for a
development char i ty I f ind mysel f doing
work for s imi lar c l ients. My wi fe is an
independent music ian so I do some
work in that f ie ld too. I de l iberate ly
don’t go af ter b ig mult i -nat ional
corporat ions who’s eth ics I d isagree
with. I ’d l ike to th ink I ’d turn down a
huge deal wi th Coca-cola or Nest le
but I ’m yet to have the opportuni ty ! I ’d
a lso be wi l l ing to turn down stuff that ’s
promot ing or condoning any k ind of
hatred or pre judiced. In fact I act ive ly
do the opposi te through pro jects l ike
The Narn ian Socia l is t Review. http://
narn iansocia l is t .com/
6. What’s the most engaging piece of
design you’ve seen recent ly?
This,
And th is,
Malcolm Curr ie a lso makes some helpfu l
points as wel l s imi lar to Alex. I found
the p ieces pointed to in quest ion 6, the
most interest ing.
I f ind the comic very effect ive i t ’s so
s imple, b lack and whi te, as soon as I
saw i t I was gr ipped that the speaker
was going to fa l l . The power that the
people have, i t makes i t fee l so obvious
that the leaders don’t have u l t imate
power.
11Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
Asa Rodger:
1. Who is your favour i te designer and
why?
I don’t rea l ly have one, I l ike e lements
of each sty le, but prefer how the
problem was solved rather than who i t
was solved by.2. What do you f ind the
b iggest chal lenge is as a designer?
Inspi red work under t ight t ime l ines.
The creat ive process is hard and takes
t ime.
3. What do you f ind is the most
effect ive way to engage you on a topic
you’re less fami l iar wi th?
Image.
4. What do you see as the posi t ive and
negat ive impacts of graphic design on
cul ture and society?
Posi t ive: Messaging del ivery, the power
to del iver messages with more impact
through graphic design. Negat ive:
t rends
5. Where would you draw the l ine on
a pro ject that you wouldn’t do due to
eth ica l reasons?
I f I wouldn’t support i t by word, I
wouldn’t support i t by image.
6. What’s the most engaging piece of
design you’ve seen recent ly?
Vira l campaign done wel l , c lean design,
inte l l igent market ing and strong
business model wi th USP, def in ing a
new market.
Asa g ives very d i rect answers, but not
a lot of in fo, he makes good and helpfu l
points about the advert in quest ion 6.
Robin Ireland:
1. Who is your favour i te designer and
why?
David Carson. A predictable choice
perhaps, but he made a b ig impact
in the 1980s and 90s (showing my
age now!) . I loved h is use of bold
typography and sty les that broke
f ree f rom the norm. I remember being
wowed by h is magazine designs and I
st i l l l ike them today.
2. What do you f ind the b iggest
chal lenge is as a designer?
There are lots of chal lenges! Keeping
up with current t rends is one. I ts so
important but takes t ime. I ts very easy
to re ly on t r ied and tested methods,
especia l ly when you’re busy and only
have short t ime scales.
3. What do you f ind is the most
effect ive way to engage you on a topic
you’re less fami l iar wi th?
I ’m natura l ly a v isual learner. So great
imagery a lways draws me in rather than
12 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
text . A l though a good headl ine wi l l get
my attent ion too!
4. What do you see as the posi t ive and
negat ive impacts of graphic design on
cul ture and society?
Good design keeps th ings f resh and i t
inspi res. The negat ives for me are that
design of ten looks to shock or d isturb
in i ts at tempt to f ind something new. Or
the other extreme is that i t promotes
a fa lse rea l i ty where everyone should
be beaut i fu l and without imperfect ion
(perhaps more media dr iven than design
– but they work c losely together ) .
5. Where would you draw the l ine on
a pro ject that you wouldn’t do due to
eth ica l reasons?
This is an interest ing quest ion.
There are def in i te l ines I would draw
on pornography or hate l i terature.
However, there are many grey areas
too. I th ink i f the design was to promote
something I fe l t uncomfortable wi th, I
would have to say no.
6. What’s the most engaging piece of
design you’ve seen recent ly?
Looking back at David Carson’s work
again hav ing ment ioned h im above!
Love i t : - )
Robin makes the point f rom quest ion
4 that a negat ive is design that seeks
to shock or d isturb that i t shouldn’t do
that .
Summary:From these responses these
are the following points I ’ l l
take forward;
– That my thinking is on
the right track, they agreed
with approaches I ’m leaning
towards.
– To engage in a easy friendly
manner.
– To research the designers
they mentioned were they ’re
influences and inspirations.
http://v imeo.com/38785342
http:// t inyur l .com/6r5bpb7
http://www.dol larshaveclub.com/
13Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
The organisat ions I decided to contact
were ones that I had researched a l ready
and referenced due to the i r a ims and
object ives. They were the fo l lowing:
Adbusters – Pr imar i ly a magazine but
they descr ibe themselves as, a g lobal
network of ar t is ts, act iv ists, wr i ters,
pranksters, students, educators and
entrepreneurs who want to advance the
new socia l act iv ists movement of the
informat ion age.
GOOD – GOOD is a col laborat ion of
indiv iduals, businesses, and nonprof i ts
pushing the wor ld forward. Since 2006
we’ve been making a magazine, v ideos,
and events for people who give a damn.
Provokateur – An eth ica l
communicat ions agency that bel ieves
creat iv i ty and design can be powerfu l
cata lysts for change.
The Designers Accord – A g lobal
coal i t ion of designers, educators, and
business leaders, work ing together to
create posi t ive env i ronmenta l and socia l
impact.
David Berman – Author (Do Good
Design, expert speaker, des igner,
communicat ions strategist , and
consul tant , h is profess ional work has
brought h im to over 30 countr ies.
Design Can Change – Works on the
bel ie f that our industry can make
posi t ive change by work ing together.
Use th is resource as a start ing point to
help br ing our community together to
encourage susta inable pract ices.
MYOO – Formed f rom the heart of
“community” [kuh-MYOO-ni- tee] , MYOO
is about br inging people together to
protect the p lanet whi le, be l ieve i t or
not, hav ing fun.
I on ly got one reply out of these
contacts but i t was a s igni f icant one,
Adbusters repl ied say ing that my emai l
was passed onto the edi tors for the i r
comments.
I got a reply say ing that I could phone
Kal le Lasn, the co-founder of Adbusters
the fu l l interv iew is cont inued on the
fo l lowing page.
3rd
Em
ail
Re
cip
ien
ts
14 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
Kal le Lasn (born March 24, 1942) is an
Estonian Canadian f i lm maker, author,
magazine edi tor and act iv ist . Near
the end of Wor ld War I I h is fami ly f led
Estonia and Lasn spent some t ime in
a German refugee camp. At age seven
he was resett led in Austra l ia wi th h is
fami ly, where he grew up and remained
unt i l the late 1960s, at tending school in
Canberra. In the late 1960s, he founded
a market research company in Tokyo,
and in 1970, moved to Vancouver,
Canada. For twenty years, he produced
documentar ies for PBS and Canada’s
Nat ional F i lm Board. He l ives in
Vancouver, Br i t ish Columbia.
He is the co-founder of Adbusters
magazine and author of the books
Cul ture Jam and Design Anarchy and is
the co-founder of the Adbusters Media
Foundat ion, which owns the magazine.
He reportedly started Adbusters af ter
an epiphany that there was something
profoundly wrong with consumer ism.
I t happened in a supermarket park ing
lot . Frustrated that he had to insert
a quarter to use a shopping cart , he
jammed a bent coin in so that the
machine became inoperable. This act
of vandal ism was h is f i rst (qu i te l i tera l )
“cu l ture jam” – def ined as an act
designed to subvert mainstream society.
In h is f i rst book Cul ture Jam, he argues
that consumer ism is the fundamenta l
ev i l of the modern era. He cal ls for a
“meme war”: a batt le of ideas to sh i f t
Western society away f rom consumer
capi ta l ism. His second book, Design
Anarchy, ca l ls on graphic designers,
i l lustrators and others to turn f rom
work ing in serv ice to corporate and
pol i t ica l pol lut ion of both the p lanet and
“the menta l env i ronment”, and embrace
a radica l new aesthet ic devoted to
socia l and env i ronmenta l responsib i l i ty.
I had the pr iv i lege of conduct ing a
te lephone interv iew with Kal le Lasn, the
t ranscr ipt fo l lows on the next page.
Ka
lle
La
sn
Inte
rvie
w
15Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
What do you th ink is the most effect ive
way to engage people on a topic they’re
less fami l iar wi th?
I agree with you, I ’ve a lso been th ink ing
for many years now about what I ca l l
‘psycho design’ about the psychologica l
factors that swir l around graphic design
as wel l as product design. My own
th ink ing about i t is that for the last
few generat ions probably s ince the
2nd wor ld war, we’ve been going for
the g l i tz . Our c l ients have paid us for
these products that have th is nuclear
g low around them in the shelves and
in the advert isements. We’ve (graphic
designers) have been gui l ty of creat ing
th is fa lse aesthet ic that basica l ly just
se l ls more product.
Now th is b i r th of psycho design is a l l
about communicat ing d i fferent th ings
to people. Some of the examples
I ’ve used in the past, a hot water tap
that ’s designed r ight f rom the start to
be used less just by adding certa in
features to i t . You can design product
packages that remind people what’s
rea l ly involved in creat ing that product
in terms of the ecologica l factors. You
can take a whole f resh look f rom a
psycho design perspect ive at everyth ing
in the g lobal market p lace r ight now.
I f we can just come up with a new
aesthet ic that goes deeper than th is
o ld aesthet ic of just buy ing more or just
encouraging people to impuls ive ly buy
more products.
So I th ink there’s something incredib ly
fascinat ing here about th is concept
of psycho design. When i t comes to
i t , every product is d i fferent i f you’re
designing a new automobi le there’s a
certa in approach you can use which
is e i ther a door handle that has i t ’s
own approach or i f you’re designing a
landscape i t has got i t ’s own approach.
You know, I don’t know how to answer
that quest ion about what are the actual
factors that we have to bui ld in. But I
do know graphic designers are at the
ear ly stage of [def in ing] a whole new
aesthet ic.
In terms of the design of my pro ject
do th ink i t is better to take a more
provocat ive approach or a more
empathet ic one, to inspi re or in f luence
subvers ive ly?
I th ink the most important th ing is g iven
the fact that we’ve had f i f ty years i f th is
aesthet ic – a k ind of g l i tzy th ing – that
we’ve infused throughout every nook
and cranny of our cul ture. I th ink the
most important psychologica l factor in
our cul ture now is cogni t ive d issonance.
I th ink that the job of design now is to
wake people up, to g ive them a way to
look at a hot water tap in a new way.
To g ive them a new way of hoping into
the i r car, to g ive them a d i fferent k ind
of exper ience of dr iv ing where they
are constant ly being reminded at a
fundamenta l leve l . Instead of hav ing
some k ind of eco carbon emit t ing meter
that constant ly reminds you about what
your doing to the c l imate change.
So I th ink that the most important
factor is for designers to create
cogni t ive d issonance to put surpr ises
into the i r products, into the i r des igns
and to cont inual ly p lay th is k ind of
cat and mouse game with the people
who are us ing the product. I t turns the
whole exper ience into something much
more interest ing. I t a lso has a way of
gett ing people to s lowly start changing
the i r mind about how they l ive and
16 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
how they consume, how they basica l ly
t reat design. To me the b iggest th ing
is to create a new aesthet ic. At the
moment we have th is k ind of corporate
s l ick aesthet ic. We have to change that
into a s l ick subvers ive aesthet ic that
is producing cogni t ive d issonance and
narrat ing a cul tura l change.
What do you see as the dominant
ideology in western society?
… Oh gee! I th ink … I don’t know.
I ’ve been th ink ing about that a l l my
l i fe ! I ’ve come to the conclus ion r ight
now, as I ’m wr i t ing a book about
economics, and I ’m looking at the sort
of economic system that we in the
west have created. We’ve created a
k ind of neo-c lass ica l economics that
is so mathemat ica l ! So logica l ! We in
the west are the people who in the
ear ly days – the Greek days – came up
with laws of log ic. And for thousands
of years we’ve been th ink ing that we
can, we’ve a lways thought we can
f igure th ings out by us ing the laws
of log ic. In medieval t imes we even
thought we could prove the ex istence
of God by us ing the laws of log ic! In
the past we’ve thought we use a lchemy
to produce gold out of lead. The most
recent example of that is that we
thought we could imaginat ive ly package
der ivat ives and mortgages in a r isk f ree
way.
Al l a long we’ve basica l ly created
logica l systems that have created a
lot of mayhem – a lot of d isaster ! Now
f ina l ly wi th humanity h i t t ing the wal l
– th is human exper iment of ours on
p lanet earth is f ina l ly h i t t ing the wal l .
And we’ve suddenly got these c l imate
change t ipping points hover ing on the
hor izon, and f isca l ly, f inancia l ly i t looks
l ike we could be in a 1929 scenar io at
any moment! We’re suddenly h i t t ing the
wal l , to that quest ion you asked me,
we have to say – what got us into th is
mess?! How come we’re suddenly in
th is apocalypt ic scenar io?
I th ink i t ’s got something to do with
th is logic f reakiness of western cul ture
– that we in the west are logic f reaks!
I th ink that even a lot of des igners, i f
you rea l ly look at the way you design,
s i t t ing there in f ront of your computer
wi th your hand on the mouse and your
manipulat ing a l l these l i t t le th ings,
moving th ings around. You th ink that
somehow i f you move th ings around
enough and tweak a l l the l i t t le factors
that somehow you can come up with
the magical des ign that does what you
want i t to do. I th ink there’s something
fundamenta l ly wrong with that log ica l
way of th ink ing.
I can fee l now that input f rom Braz i l ,
which is a much more p layfu l and
spontaneous k ind of cu l ture. And
some Is lamic ways of th ink ing about
economics that are say ing wi ld th ings
l ike ‘ let ’s get r id of interest rates’ . I t ’s
l ike a l l of a sudden there’s a counter
intu i t ive non- logica l weirdo k ind of an
emot ional approach. These th ings that
are coming to the fore, and my fee l ing
is that for designers to start doing the
r ight th ing, they have to become much
more intu i t ive, much more emot ional
and less logic f reaky for us to solve
these larger problems of how to create
a sane susta inable future. You know the
whole g lobal cu l ture wi l l have to move
away f rom th is logic f reakiness into a
much more human emot ional k ind of a
resonance.
17Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
Something that I see – I ’m speaking
part icu lar ly about designers and the
consumer ist cu l ture created around
them – as a s igni f icant ideology is
possib ly one of apathy, that people
have fa l len as leep in a sense, sett l ing
into an easy way. Would you agree with
that?
Um …yeah! I would agree with that . I
th ink that i f you were fac ing these k ind
of ecologica l , psychologica l , pol i t ica l
apocalypt ic factors swir l ing around
us r ight now then i t ’s very easy just
to switch off . To keep s ipping your
lat te and ignore the fact that , as I sa id
before th is whole human exper iment
of ours on p lanet earth could suddenly
h i t the wal l , and then we could have a
500 year dark age that we’re suddenly
thrown into.
But the b igger th ing I th ink about,
especia l ly des igners, there’s one th ing
that I a lways want to argue with them
about. Most of the designers I ’ve met
– wi th a few except ions – are mi ld
people. Yeah, they have a certa in k ind
of apathy, but there is a fee l ing among
designers that you don’t rea l ly have a
lot of power. You basica l ly just have to
do what the c l ient wants – what your
corporate paymasters te l l you to do,
that you’re not a lways that b ig or that
important. That you can be a successfu l
des igner just by coming up with a n ice
new door handle for a car, or a n ice
new brochure for some company or
some nice s ign or come up with some
fancy dancy book or something.
But I th ink there are a few designers
now that are waking up to the fact that
designers are actual ly some of the most
powerfu l people in the wor ld! We are
the people who create the ambiances;
we are the people who create the code
of the media. We are the people who
create the fee l ing of interact ing with the
Internet; we are actual ly the people who
create the aesthet ic that we a l l l ive in !
I f we start th ink ing of ourse lves as
some of the most powerfu l people in the
wor ld – who are actual ly manipulat ing
these ‘under the radar’ tones and
fee l ings and ambiences of g lobal
cu l ture. I f we see ourselves as the
people who actual ly in some s igni f icant
way create th is g lobal cu l ture that a l l 7
b i l l ion of us l ive in. Then a l l of a sudden
we wi l l become much more empowered
and we wi l l rea l ise that we are some of
the most cr i t ica l people who have the
power to change the wor ld!
Analysis:
There are many points to take f rom
the interv iew, f rom the f i rst quest ion
Kal le Lasn ta lks a lot about what he
cal ls psycho design. He expla ins that
psycho design is design that a ims
to subvert and contradict , to design
th ings f ro the very beginning, f rom thei r
concept ion to a im to do good. To a im
for the psyche and change the way we
design. Becuase, he expla ins that s ince
WWII designers have been going for
the ‘g l i tz ’ , des igning to just look good
and not pay ing attent ion to i t ’s effect .
He uses the example of a hot water
tap that ’s designed r ight f rom the start
to be used less just by adding certa in
features to i t .
Kal le Lasn’s response to the second
quest ion bui lds on the points made
f rom the f i rst quest ion. He cont inues
to expla in another phrase, cogni t ive
18 Book 5, I t Must Expand Project – Quest ionnai res & Interv iews
dissonance, s imi lar ly he expla ins that in
order to push back against the media.
We need to inte l l igent ly d isrupt, not
for anarchy’s sake but to wake people
up, to cause people to re-th ink. He
cont inues to say that a new aesthet ic
a new sty le and approach needs to be
created.
He cont inues to expla in that a corporate
aesthet ic has been created, due to the
dominance to capi ta l ism and therefore
businesses. Graphic design has in a
way become a s lave to businesses. He
expla ins that in order to chal lenge th is
we need to get under the sk in.
To subvert i t des igners need to design
with in that corporate aesthet ic, but
wi th in i t chal lenge i t and contradict i t ,
to create a ‘s l ick subvers ive aesthet ic’ .
Th is is the most encouraging point f rom
the interv iew because that is exact ly
what I ’m doing, the sty le of the pro ject
is a c lean corporate one, but the
content is to chal lenge every designer
to th ink about what they create.
Kal le Lasn’s responses to quest ion
three and four run together, as we
discussed what the dominant ideology
was in society. He started by us ing
the phrase ‘ logic f reaks’ , expla in ing
that the west largely in f luenced by the
enl ightenment and is obsessed with
logic and v isual rhetor ic. Think ing that
for a g iven p iece of design there is a
per fect so lut ion, and i f the form, colour
and layout s i t in the r ight formula, i t
wi l l be a successfu l p iece of design. In
response to th is we need to be intu i t ive
and emot ional des igners.
Kal le Lasn agreed with my sent iment
that some designers have become
apathet ic, but he thought that i t ’s
maybe ore that people are too mi ld.
That designers just do what the c l ient
wants, and don’t th ink for themselves.
He concludes by say ing that designers
are powerfu l people, that we need to
rea l ise that we are the people that
create the aesthet ic of society. That we
create the code and enable the media
to communicate. I f on ly designers
would rea l ise the power they have, that
designers can change the wor ld.
Summary:From all of these emails,
contacts and the interview;
– That from the emails, it
was confirmed that there is a
market for this project.
– That in making it an easily
approached and simple design
is the most effective.
– That Kalle Lasn agreed
that the clean corporate
style of the project is the
most effective; as it connects
with what people know
best but subverts it and
offers an alternative way of
approaching design.