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Administration of Jimmy Carter, 1977 Apr. 30We have found in northern California,

in Marin County, for instance, thatthey've cut back water consumption 65percent this year. I doubt that it's workedany hardship on the people who live there,but that's just an indication of what canbe done as water supplies appear to beinadequate. It may be that consumption. .IS excesSIve.

I don't know enough about the detailsof the Utah question to answer any betterthan that.

FOREIGN IMPORTSQ. Mr. President, the House informalcommi ttee on textiles has in the past fewdays passed a resolution asking that notonly should the multifiber agreement berenewed when it runs out at the end ofDecember, bu t that in negotiating in Geneva later this summer, that some thoughtbe given to reducing the amount of imports that will be required because thetextile import situation is getting so bad.What would be yours and Mr. Strauss'

reaction to that request to make the import quotas even stiffer, especially in viewof your reluctance to do very much on theshoe situation and leave that on an openmar:ket?THE PRESIDENT. I hate to comment on

that in detail. The present multifiberagreement, as you know, authorizes inmost instances, a 6-percent annual increase in exports from other supplyingcountries to us. It also has a provision init that concerns me somewhat, and that is,if they don't export that much in 1 year,they can make up the following year their6 percent plus what they carry over fromthe previous year.

Some of the shoe manufacturers wantto cu t down the 6 percent to 3 percent, orequafe it with the growth in shoe consumption in our country-I mean, textile

consumption in our country. I don't knowyet what our position will be.Chairman Strauss, now Ambassador

Strauss, has been over in Europe to talkin a preliminary fashion to some of thepeople there. Last fall when I was campaigning, the request of the textile industry was that we simply renew the multifiber agreement in its present form. Nowtheir position has changed to demand areduction.Obviously, this is a multinational agree

ment and we do have a strong voice inthe negotiations, but we don't have anyveto power over it. My general inclination, though, is to not erect trade barriers.I think in many instances, we've been successful on a bilateral basis in getting voluntary agreements on constraint. We'vedone this in the case of textiles on occasion. Weare now trying to do this in thecase of Taiwan and South Korea on shoeexports, and we're doing the same thingat this time on color television sets fromJapan.

So, I think, in general, I've outlinedthe problem. I don't know exactly whatlevel we will assume as a negotiating position on the increase per year that canbe permitted. I have some ideas, but I'mreluctant to make a public statement onthem any further than I have.

ECONOMIC SUMMIT CONFERENCEQ. Mr. President, can you give usyour views on the upcoming summit in

Europe?THE PRESIDENT. And what was yourquestion?Q. I t had to do with jobs.THE PRESIDENT. Okay. Well, I'm formore jobs and I hope to be successful atthe summit. [Laughter]I'm spending a lot of time preparing forthis summit. This will be my first trip

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Apr. 30 Administration of Jimmy Carter, 1977o u t s i d ~ the country since I've been President, perhaps my only trip outside thecountry this year. Many of the leadersI've had a chance to know in the past inmy travels as Governor, and we've hadvisitors here quite often.

Prime Minister-or President Suarezfrom Spain, I think was the fifth head ofstate who's been here in the last 10 days.And we have an average of about oneprime minister or president or king coming every 2 weeks the rest of this year. Ineach instance, before they come I do alot of study about their nation-its background, economic, social, political structure, history with us, bilateral problelTIs,multinational agreements.

Some of the things that we'll discuss atthe summit are our relationships with oneanother; the strengthening of NATO atan immediately following meeting; questions concerning human rights; preparation for the Belgrade conference to assessthe efficacy of the Helsinki agreement;nonproliferation questions concerning reprocessing of spent nuclear fuels, theplutonium society.We also will discuss among us our dealings with the less-developed countries ofthe world, how much to strengthen theInternational Monetary Fund, how muchto depend on other multilateral lendinginstitutions like the World Bank or regional banks, ho,,y much to cooperate intrade Inatters.

We'll discuss quite frankly with ourfriends and allies from Japan, Canada,and Europe, the possible approaches to aSALT agreement.

We'll discuss the mutual and balancedforce redpction talks in Vienna that havebeen stalemated now for about 3 years. Ithink \ve'll form personal friendships andinterrelationships that will stand us ingood stead in a time of trouble or crisis.

In fact, when I called Prime MinisterCallaghan this morning-we have a per-756

sonal and easy relationship because we'vehad a chance to be together for a numberof hours when he visited us.

I don't know President Giscard fromFrance. I do know Chancellor Schmidt.And I think I'll come away from therewith a new sense of what their specialproblems are and opportunities in thenations involved.

We'll talk at length about energy, and\\'e'll talk about the entire fuel cycle. Wehope to get a multilateral cooperationbegun in the very expensive research anddevelopment projects concerning energy.

For instance, we are just about readyto go ahead with a very large, solarenergy power production plant in Spain.This has been worked out before I was inoffice. But as we approach a very difficultquestion of solar power use, fusion power,of breeder reactors, it's important for us todo it with a common commitment toshare the expense, to share the information and experience derived, and to makesure that we also share a protectionagainst the increased capability to makeexplosives from nuclear fuels.These are the kinds of things that we'lldiscuss, and the ~ g e n d a is quite full. Ithink everyone involved is making anextra effort to prepare thoroughly.

There was a general feeling that at thelast. summit conference on economics, thatthe preparation was not adequate. AndI've already exchanged three or fourletters, for instance, ,vith ChancellorSchmidt and the same with PresidentGiscard f ~ o m France.I wrote and sent to Chancellor Schmidtearly this morning a four- or five-pageresponse to his reeen t eonlmunica ionwith me.

We've had numerous m e e t i n g ~ already\\'ith our official representatives to preparefor the sunlmit, and we have, in additionto what I've just described, scheduledbilateral meetings between myself and al-


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Administration of Jimmy Carter) 1977 Apr. 30most every leader in Europe-sometimesonly 15 minutes, sometimes for an hour oran hour and a half.

And following the summit, which is aseven-nation meeting, we'll have a specialmeeting, a very private meeting of thenations responsible for Berlin. And thenI will go to Geneva to meet with President Asad from Syria. I'm trying to meetwith all the Middle Eastern leaders before the end of May. And I'll come backto London for the NATO, Conferenceand then back home.So, I think we'll derive a great deal ofbenefit from it. I think \ve'll come awayfrom there with a new knowledge '0f thedifferences that divide us and the optionsto be presented to our people and theCongress. I think we'll find a lot of comm'0n ground that we haven't yet recognized. But tensions tend to build upamong nations when there is not an easy\yay to communicate between the headsof state.

And I was quite concerned, as I saidearlier, about the potential breakdown.innegotiating new ai r rights. The Britishfeel that we have too many planes flyingbetween our country and London withtoo many empty seats, that this is wastefulof energy and wasteful of airplanes, thatit creates excessive competition and excessive costs for the few passengers \vhodo fly on a half-empty plane. We agreewith that.

The British are also, though, quite insistent that we cut down on the numberof additional points that we serve beyondLondon. We feel a much Inore deep dedication to the free enterprise system andto competition than most of '0ur allies,even as close a friend as Britain. And justthe fact that Jim Callaghan and I can sitdown and talk about these things and see\vhat \ve can yield on-we cannot affordto let another country tell us what the capacity of our airplanes ought to be-but

I can tell Jim Callaghan that I'll personally be responsible to him that \ve cu tdown on the waste of empty seats, bu tthat we cannot yield '0n that point andthat we can't give up our right to travelbeyond London to Frankfurt, to Copenhagen, and to other points around theworld. So just the fact that we can havea personal relationship will benefit usgreatly.

Let me say in closing that I really appreciate a chance to meet with you. Iwish I had more time to talk about thingsin detail. All of these Inatters that getto the President's desk, as you can wellsee, are things that can't be solved at aState level or between employers and employees or within the Congress. And I'vewelc'0med a chance to get deeply involved. I've enjoyed it.

Our family has gotten well establishedin the White House. }\my is enjoying herschool nearby. Rosalynn has gotten deeplyinvolved in problems concerning the elderly and in her mental health work.We've had a tremendous increase here inthe burden on our staffs because of ouropenness. I get from 65- to 85,000 lettersa \veek, and this is about three or fourtimes more than President Ford got. Rosalynn gets 3- or 4,000 a \veek. :\my gets2,000 letters a week.We appreciate this access to the public,but it has caused us some problem in staffing. j\nd \ve hope that our availability andaccessability to you \vill be the kind ofthing that \ve can maintain as long as I amhere.Rosalynn had-we \vere really worriedabout Rosalynn for 2 or 3 days. She had alump in her breast and \ve obviously didn'tknow the character of it, bu t yesterdayafternoon she had an operation and itturned out to be benign. And \ve are verygrateful about that.

I might say-I haven't told anybodyelse, bu t President Ford called last night.

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Apr. 30 Administration of Jimmy Carter, 1977It seems he heard about it. And I thoughtit was an extraordinarily gracious andkind thing for him to do.Q. What did he say?THE PRESIDENT. He just called to saythat he had heard about Rosalynn's operation and that he and Betty were prayingfor us and that he was deeply concerned

about our health, that he knew what Bettyhad had to go through in a similar operation, and he was just grateful that thetumor turned out to be benign.

But I thought it was very kind of himto take the time to call. And I really didappreciate it. And we reconfirmed ouragreement that whenever he comes toWashington, he'll come by and see me personally to give me advice and counsel andlet me tell him about the latest developments on international affairs.

We keep both him and President Nixoninformed with regular briefings from theState Department and the CIA on secret,unpublicized interrelationships betweenus and other governments. And I thinkthis is a very beneficial thing to me to continue this. But we have a good friendshipbetween me and President Ford.Q. Have you had any feedback fromMr. Nixon?THE PRESIDENT. Well, President'Nixonhas written me several letters, and we'veexchanged telephone calls. His attitude to

\vard me has been perfect. He has saidthat he didn't want to intrude, but thathe was always available, that he'd like tobe kept informed, and whenever we hada question about some personal relationship that he had had with a foreign leaderin the Soviet Union or China or the Mid-dle East, that he'd like to make his infor .mation available to us, and that he wouldalways like to have the right to call me ifhe was concerned about any action of ourGovernment, but he would always do itprivately and in a constructive way, that758

he'd never be critical of what I did inpublic.So, we've had a good relationship withboth of them. As I said in the press conference the other day, it's a very smallfraternity of people who've been here, bu tI think that both of my predecessors recognize that this is kind of a lonely job in away, but it's also one where you need allthe help you can get.I never had a chance to meet a Democratic President-{laughter]-but eventhe Republican Presidents have been veryconstructive.

Thank you. I 've enjoyed it.NOTE: Th e interview began at 1: 02 p.m. inthe Cabinet Room at the White House. Thetranscript of the interview was released onApril 30.

White House CorrespondentsAssociationRemarks I lt the Association's AnnualDinner. AlJril30, 19i7

I'm very grateful at the invitation thatwas extended to me to be here tonight.The invitation did say "Live Television."[Laughter]

But in any case, I'm glad I came because my heart was moved a few momentsago to see the transfer of command. Iknow that Paul Healy has done a goodjob, and Larry O'Rourke will be a fine,new president. Sometimes it's hard tounderstand who is president and who'snot. [Laughter]I know what it means to have a former president to give you sound adviceand quiet encouragement and firm support. As a matter of fact, the recentstories about my relationship with President Ford have been taken completelyout of context. I think the Vice Presidentwas quite presumptuo:us in making com-


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Administration of Jimmy Carter, 1977 Apr. 30ments about ex-Presidents. I have a complete detennination when I go out ofoffice to say what I damn well please[laughter]-about my successor. I knewthat if I gave Fritz an inch, he'd try totake a mile. [Laughter]

I've been to seven or eight news conferences, and I never knew there was somany White House correspondents before. [Laughter] You have my own WhiteHouse staff outnumbered 10 to I-usingthe campaign figures for the White Housestaff, of course. [Laughter] The way it'sturned out, on a temporary basis, this isjust about one for one.

We do have a lot in common, though.I understand that everybody on theWhite House staff and among the WhiteHouse correspondents has had 'about atripling in their salary since I came inoffice. I know you all appreciate the newarrangement that I've brought to theWihite House.I appreciated, too, the remarks th'atwere made about the new policy thatwe've tried to implement throughout theGovernment in bringing women andblacks into the Government. We've gota long way to go. I've derived a lot of inspiration from looking at the head table.[Laughter] If my black friends fromArcher could just see this assemblage uphere, they would be sure that their struggles over a long peri'od of time \vere wellworth\vhile.

It is difficult to separate in a WhiteHouse environment, fact from fiction,which reminds me of my good friend,Jim Wooten, here--{laughterJ-the EricaJong of the New York Times. [Laughter].A.s a matter of fact, the fiction and factrelationship is not what hurt me so much;it was the use of the phrase "cruel recluse." I have asked Jody Powell to findou t who first used that phrase. He 's interrogated all the White House correspondents and 23 White House staff members.

If I find out who said it, I'll let you know.And if I'm not there, my new Press Secretary will let you know. [Laughter]

It's always good to have an experiencedperson at your side who can extricate youfrom one of those difficult situations.

I have thought that I knew my key supporters very well, who have been with me8 or 10 years, but I've learned a lot aboutthem since we've been in the WhiteHouse.

I read a story not too long ago aboutHamilton Jordan's-{ aughter]-about. Hamilton Jordan's-{laughter]-underwear. Of course, I don't have any way toknow aJbout the veracity of the story. Ireally didn't until the other afternoonsomeone hi t a very hard tennis ball overthe net and it missed Hamilton's racketand I found out that the story was true.[Laughter]

We all have to accommodate changingtimes. I've tried to bring to the WhiteHouse the campaign commitments that Imade, and carry them out. Obviously,when circumstances do change, you haveto change with them.I noticed that Paul mentioned the $50rebate. This was a firm commitment ofmine, as you know. And my economists,

t h o u g ~ , discovered that so many peoplespent the $50 before they got it, that wedidn't have to give it to them. [Laughter]I can't understand why everybody elsec.an't understand something like that.

Hamilton is in charge of appointments,as you know. And the other day a storygot out that we were considering threepeople for Ambassador to Nantuc.ket. Wewant to be ready when the new nationsare formed.

My brother, Billy, found out we wereconsidering an ambassador to Martha'sVineyard. We had to explain to him thatthe name \vas derived a' long time ago.[Laughter]

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Apr. 30 Administration of Jimmy Carter) 1977One of the things that the press hasbeen very good about is to correct mistakes

we've made and also to explain difficultquestions. I know that all of you realizethe complexity of the energy question. Iknew it was complicated and confused.But I didn't really realize how complicated and confused till I read the newspapers the next morning.

We are planning, Jody and I, to givean award to the newsperson who can bestexplain our energy policy in clear andconcise language. We have a cogenerationtrophy to award as soon as the retrofitt ingof it is completed. [Laughter]

I've had a lot of setbacks and a lot oftroubles, as you know, and you've beenkind enough to make those clear-{laughter]-to the American people, which islegitimate and expected, and I don't haveany reason to think that objecting to it\vould help. [Laughter]

I was quite at ease with the criticismsthat were derived from the Republicanleadership. I expected that, and I also expected to drop 10 percent in the polls, andJ was not disappointed with that prediction. What did upset me, though, was theother day Jody called and said that he hadarranged for a series of television interviews. I was quite pleased, until I foundout that it was with David Frost.[Laughter]

I t's difficult for me to describe the relationship that I have with you. I've triedto get it clear in my mind tonight. Thereis a great responsibility that we share tounderstand one another as best we can,to tell the American people the truth asbest \ve can, to realize the tremendousjoint responsibility that we have and theeagerness among the people of our Nationto know about their own Governmenthow decisions are made, the options thatwe have, the successes and the failures,the hopes and the dreams, the deep con-

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cerns-and to reveal the prejudices thatstill remain is a major responsibility.Some times we feel a sense of antagonism and disharmony and a lack of adequate communication. But to a major degree, we serve together.

I'm very deeply grateful that you'vegiven me a chance to come here tonight tomeet with you.

In closing, let me say that Rosalynn andI appreciate very much the silver centerpiece, and I would also like to express mydeep thanks to you for - I would like toexpress my appreciation to the WhiteHouse correspondents for-the sense ofgratitude that I have for-{laughter]--NOTE: The President spoke at 9: 12 p.m. atthe Washington Hilton Hotel. He was introduced by Paul Healy of the New York DailyNews, the new president of the association.Larry O'Rourke of the Philadelphia Bulletinwas the outgoing president.

At the dinner, members of the associationpresented President Carter with a silver centerpiece, commemorating the Nation's 201styear.

European Broadcast JournalistsQuestion-and-Answer Session. Ma y 2, 1977

FOREIGN POLICY

DAVID DIMBLEBY [British BroadcastingCorporation]. Mr. President, when youcame into office, people in the West werelooking to you, on the basis of the campaign you had run, for quite a big boostto the economies of the world. And I\vonder whether you think that they mayunderstandably feel a little bit let downat the caution and conservatism you haveshown, and you've cut back even on whatyou've done, and perhaps feel that America hasn't yet begun really to pull herweight t'O get everybody back to work inthe rest of the world.


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Administration of Jimmy Carter, 1977 May 2THE PRESIDENT. Well, we will wind up

with an economic stimulus package forthis year or next year in excess of $20billion, which we consider to be adequate.In addition to that, we have had veryencouraging news about ou r own rate ofeconomic growth in the first 3 months.The unemployment rate has dropped andthe gross national product has increasedwell above what we had anticipated, almost doubling what it was the fourthquarter of 1976.

At the same time, we've addressedsome long-range questions that wouldhelp our economy in the future to channelour resources where it's needed most. Acomprehensive energy policy with an emphasis on conservation will help us to cu tdown our very serious payments deficit,which this year is likely to be $12 billion.

As you know, some of the other westerngovernments have a payments surplus.We think we are doing ou r share to absorb the built-in deficit that's caused bythe OPEC oil sales.

MR. DIMBLEBY. Bu t will you be underpressure in London, do you think, fromother governments to do more than youhave done, or do you think they are quitehappy to accept what you have now decided on?

THE PRESIDENT. Well, I can't anticipate what other governments will think,bu t my judgment is that they will agreethat our effort is adequate.

INTERNATIONAL ECONOMYCARL WEISS [ZDF German Television].

It has been suggested frequently, Mr.President, that your administration expects somewhat higher gross rates, higherstimulating efforts, particularly fromcountries like Germany and Japan. Nowsince you have cu t yourself back a bi t inyour stimulating measures, do you still

think that the Federal Republic isn'tdoing enough?THE PRESIDENT. Well, that's a judg

ment for each country to make, of course.Japan and we have tried to stimulate theeconomy, about 1 percent of our grossnational product, which I think is a reasonable level. We have a much higherunemployment rate than does eitherJapan or Germany. Our inflation rate isalready higher than it is in Germany. Ourbasic inflation rate is about 6 perce.nt. Ithink that of the Federal Republic isabout 4 percent.

These questions are answered best byshowing the great difference that existsamong nations. Each nation is an individual, but we share common problemson overconsumption of energy, a lack ofattention to the future, a lack of concernin dealing with one another an d closeconsultation before we make basic decisions, a lack of attention that has beengiven in the past to the developing or undeveloped nations of the world.

So, I think the purpose of the summitis not to make every nation exactly thesame as others or to criticize one another,bu t to search out common ground to getto know one another, to set long-rangegoals on the control of energy consumption, the proliferation of atomic weaponcapability, cutting down on the sale ofmilitary weapons, and increasing economic gl10wth in the less developed countries. These kind of things are what wehope to address.

EMMANUEL DE LA TAILLE [TFI FrenchTelevision]. Mr. President, we are veryconscious that we are speaking with youfrom many countries in Europe. I wouldlike to go to the political impact of thecrisis. Because of the economic situation,most of the governments in Europe are ina very weak position. They are almost

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May 2 Administration of Jimmy Carter, 1977everywhere looking for confidence andsometimes for mooney.

Don't you think there is a danger to seethe economic crisis leading to politicalcrisis in Europe, and what could be reallydone during the London summit in orderto restore some confidence in the governments?THE PRESIDENT. I think one of thethings that we need to keep in mind is notto .expect dramatic solutions to all of theeconomic problems of the world. Anotherthing that we need to keep in mind is thatthe crisis atmosphere that existed a coupleof years ago has been alleviated to some

degree. I think that most of the nationsnow are much better off than they were 2years ago.A reassuring. thought, in addition tothat, is t h ~ t among all our people, particularly those in this country, there's asense of assurance and confidence that'sderived from the fact that I will be cooperating with the leaders of France andthe Federal Republic of Gennany andItaly and Great Britain and Japan andCanada and others in making plans forthe future.So, I don't think the crisis is somethingthat needs to be a matter of intense concentration or the search for magic ans\vers. The problems that we have had inthe past among our own nations are muchbetter resolved than those that existamong nations who are destitute, whohave no economic base, who don't havea high standard of living, and who don'thave any energy reserves of their own.We are much better off than most countries, and I think that the strength that wecan show among the developed, free, industrial nations in harmonizing our effortstogether and dealing with the more unfortunate nations is a great step forwardin itself.

MR. WEISS. Speaking of North-South,Mr. President, how far do your views dif-762

fer from the views of the Europ'ean Comnlunity as far as establishing of a commoncommodity fund is concerned?THE PRESIDENT. It's hard for me to

answer that question without knowingwhat all the other nations feel. We thinkthat on an individual commodity hasis,after negotiations have been completed,that a common fund is the best approach.I think that in my own exchange ofletters in several instances with ChancellorSchmidt we've arrived at a fairly compatible approach to this basic question.We strongly favor, my own administration does, strengthenIng of the EuropeanCommunity itself. And I think that as wedeal with individual commodities thatare either in short supply or those whichhave a history of wildly fluctuating prices,then I think we can more fairly treat ourown consumers and also more fairly treatthe producers of those raw materialswhere quite often a very poor country isheavily dependent upon stable prices fora particular commodity.So, we favor the stabilization of priceswith a commodity fund, but we preferto deal with it on an individual commodity basis.

NATIONAL ENERGY PLANMR. DIMBLEBY. Can we turn to yourenergy policies, which you say you aregoing to discuss at London? You talkedabout -the energy program being "the

moral equivalent of war," but to somepeople it has given the impression of being rather strong on rhetoric and preaching and rather light when it actuallycomes to the measures.

I mean I saw an American humoristactually took the four letters m-e-o-w andsaid the policy amounted to "meow," thatin other words it's all talk and there isn'tvery much there compared with whathappens in Europe on controlling energy.


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Administration of Jimmy Carter, 1977 May 2THE PRESIDENT. The goals that wehave set for our own energy consumptionbetween now and 1985 are very stringent

and the legislative proposals that I havesubmitted to the Congress are adequateto meet those goals.MR. DIMBLEBY. If you get themthrough Congress?THE PRESIDENT. It we get themthrough Congress.MR. DIMBLEBY. Do you think you willget them through Congress?THE PRESIDENT. I think so. One of thegoals, for instance, is to reduce substantially the amount of oil that we anticipateimporting in 1985. Our present projections, with no actions, show that we willim'port about 16 million barrels of oil perday. With the program implemented,we'll cut that 16 million down to less than6 million barrels per day.

We actually anticipate lowering ourgasoline consumption in this country 10percent below the present level of consumption, and to build up this benefitprimarily by conservation induced by taxincentives and also without very seriousdamage to our own economy.

For instance, we feel that the inflationrate will be affected less than one-half of1 percent over the period between nowand 1985, and in addition, we feel thatthere is pvactically a nondetectable adverse impact on the rate of economicgrowth.We have a much better opportunity todo this than most of the countries withwhom we'll be meeting in London becausewe waste so much fuore.

MR. DIMB'LEBY. But isn't there a sensein whidh it's fair to say that some of thesethings don't appear to have been thoughtright through? I mean two things we havetalked about now, both the economy,where you drop back a third of thegrowth you were going to give, and thenthe energy policy, where already the 5

cents, which seems quite a small figure,that you are trying to raise, we heardyesterday-they are saying it's not goingto get through Congress. Do you thinkyou, yourself, as President, are movingtoo fast on too many fronts and haven'tactually worked out the mechanics of howyou are going to get ~ h e things done?THE PRESIDENT. \yell, it's difficult tomove too fast on too many fronts and alsoto have a program that's not adequatebecause it's so timid. Those to me seenl tobe inherently incompatible.MR. DIMBLEBY. Well, too fast in language, I meant, and not clear enol!lgh inpolicy.THE PRESIDENT. Our goal, for instance,in automdbile economy--we now have anaverage gasoline consumption in ourcountry, in all our autom'OIbiles put together, of only 14 miles per gallon, be-cause the American economy has beenbuilt around very large, very heavy automobiles. By 1982 we project that the average gasoline economy of new automdbiIes"vill be 27y-2 miles per gallon, almost twicethe present fleet level.T'his is a dramatic change in purchasing habits of the American people concerning automobiles. So, the changes arequite profound. We consider them to bea d e q ~ a t e , and we consider them to becapable of phasing in so that they don'tdisrupt our economy as we make thesebasic changes. And those factors are verydifficult to accommodate, but I think thatwe have put together a package that willdo that.

NUCLEAR NONPROLIFERATION

MR. WEISS. Can we turn to nuclearmatters and proliferation, nonproliferation, Mr. President?

MR. DE LA TAILLE. Yes, Mr. President,I would like to .ask you some questionsabout that. Your new nuclear program

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May 2 Administration of Jimmy C a r t e r ~ 1977can be seen in Europe as an Americanpressure in order to prevent the Europeanpeople from getting more independencein tenns of energy, in terms of nuclearfuel or exports. What's your answer tothis reaction that you have in Europe,especially in France and in Gennany?THE PRESIDENT. The sharp distinctionthat needs to be drawn, which hasn'tbeen adequately understood yet, is that wefavor the supply of adequate nuclear fuelto nations for power production and wewill rapidly increase our own capabilityin this country to manufacture and to distribute enriched uranium. That is compatible, I think, among all nations.We also are heavily committed to theprevention of the capability 'Of nonnuclear nations from developing explosives, atomic weapons. We think the keyto that is whether or not these nonnuclear countries sign the nonproliferation treaty on the one hand and forgo theopportunity to reprocess spent nuclearfuel or used nuclear fuel into explosives,as was done by India just a few years ago.

This creates a disharmony among us,bu t I think the basic principle is compatible between us and the Federal Republicof Gennany, between us and France.MR. DIMBLEBY. You have been condemned today by the 59-nation energyconference in Salzburg by the chairman,who is saying rlIat at a time when atomicenergy is needed, what you have done ismade it harder than ever to get it.THE PRESIDENT. I think that is an incorrect statement on his part, because as Ipointed out, we will substantially increaseour production of nuclear fuels. We arevery eager to sell our own nuclear powerplants. We are very eager to see other nations do the same.

What we don't want to do is to givethese nonnuclear countries the capabilityof making weapons. And I don't think

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th(tse two thrusts of our policy areincompatible.MR. WEISS. Could you perhaps, Mr.President, explain in some more detail the

conditions and criteria under which theUnited States will in the future reliablysupply nuclear fuel? Could nuclear fuelelements originally supplied by the UnitedStates be reprocessed in third countries?THE PRESIDENT. Yes. They are now.And they would be permitted to be reprocessed in the future.

MR. WEISS. Now, the German FederalGovernment has said it is in no positionto retreat from the nuclear exports. Doyou consider this still as a deal concludedwith Brazi l - -

MR. DE LA T AILLE. Or France withPakistan.THE PRESIDENT. I understand.MR. WEIss.--as a major impediment to your desire to curb proliferation?THE PRESIDENT. We have expressedourselves publicly in this administrationand my predecessor, President Ford, andSecretary Kissinger did the same-in deploring the sale of the reprocessing plantsboth to Pakistan and to Brazil. This is adecision, though, for France, the FederalRepublic of Germany, Brazil, and Pakistan to make themselves. We hope thatour objection to this sale, which }:las beenopenly expressed, wilI curb or preventfuture sales of this kind being consummated regardless of the action of thenations on these two particular sales.I don't know what's going to happenin Brazil or Pakistan about these purchases. My understanding is that theBrazilians are quite determined to gothrough with thei r reprocessing capability.But we did object to it. We do object toit. We are not going to try to impose ourwill on other countries. And we believethatour opposition will prevent similarsales in the future.

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