“It was when Istarted looking out

for everyone elsethat I became agood manager.”

Chatting UpSuccessHow one company’s innovativesystem is used to share successthroughout the organizationIn an innovative series of candid inter-views with Heartland Payment Systemsreps and sales leaders that began in Sep-tember 2008, chief sales officer SanfordBrown talks sales, motivation, opportuni-ty, and success. “I wanted people to listenas if they were flies on the wall or hearingthrough the door the conversation theyalways wanted to hear,” explains Brown.

Dissatisfied with experts who wouldcome in and explain how to fix what wasbroken, Brown wanted to discuss suc-cesses – why and how they happened.

Realizing that paper lessons from topmanagement often go unread and emailsget bounced and deleted, he came upwith this concept of a kind of sales “fire-side chat” to celebrate success throughoutthe organization.

He invited 500 of Heartland’s 1,700-strong sales force to reserve a seat for alive interview and question-and-answersession with a top rep. In only eight hours,the house was filled with people eager tolisten in. “Scarcity of seats seems to makeit more valuable,” Brown notes. But allthe sessions are recorded, so other repsand managers can hear playbacks at theirown convenience.

The key, Brown emphasizes, is that repsand managers can hear real success sto-ries (including mistakes made along the JE

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essentials M A N A G E R S ’ C O R N E R T I P S P S Y C H O L O G Y S E L L I N G S K I L L S

Sanford Brown, chief sales officer,Heartland Payment Systems

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way), learn practical lessons, and hearabout best practices that can be appliedimmediately. The candid interviewapproach is just one more thing that isdistinctive about the $1.3-billion-a-yearHeartland. All of the firm’s relationshipmanagers, account managers, territorymanagers, district managers, and uppermanagement, including Brown himself,are entirely paid on commission, on eithertheir own sales or those of the teams theymanage. “I wouldn’t be comfortable doingit any other way,” says Brown. “Havingskin in the game is good.”

A lot of people have done very well atthis game. Record-setting district managerBlaine Burn kicked off the series with hisleadership-track interview, heard by 125Heartland managers. Burn left a $50,000base-and-commission sales job in 2000 atthe age of 25 to take his chances withHeartland. Eight years later, Burn wasearning a very handsome income andbroke all company records for monthlysales, despite his Oklahoma territory beingone of Heartland’s smaller markets.

“I was 25 and thought I knew every-thing,” Burn told his listeners about hisdecision to join Heartland with a familyto support. His wife’s family came from anonsales background. “They thought yougo into an office for 40 or 50 hours, and ifyou want more money you go for over-time,” Burn remembered. “My mother-in-

law asked when I was going to get a realjob, settle down and do something real.”

Burn started out as a relationship man-ager, working from a home office. Heremembers receiving his first residualcheck, for 17 cents, or “14 cents after tax.”But he was confident there would bemany and much more to come.

Partly at the prodding of his wife, Burnleased an inexpensive office nearby. “Itwas a key to my success. You know whento work and when to play.” He then decid-ed to look upward.

“I wanted to move up to managementfor all the wrong reasons: title, respect,

hot tips1. Figure out your weakness and take corrective action.2. Nurture the whole team, notjust the top performers.

Blaine Burn, divisional manager,Heartland Payment Systems

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and power. And I made a lot of mistakesat first. I have a big ego. I want to be rightall the time, and my ego got in the way.

“In the first years I did not hold my ter-ritory managers to the same standard [Ihold myself to]. It is like with my children– they are all different, and I have to han-dle them differently, but there has to bethe same standard.

“There were people I did not talk toenough. One older person bullied meand pushed me around. And if I did notlike people personally, I did not spendenough time with them. Now we identi-fy people who we are not friendly with,and we seek to help them out.”

Burn now says he was also too judg-mental in his early management days. “Ijudged people on the way they dressed, theway they acted, and I made some enemies.Last sales meeting I looked these peopleup and apologized to them. My judgmentswere eating me alive. Now when we aregetting down on somebody at a meeting,we point it out, ask if we can help that per-son in some way, and if not, we move on.”

He had to learn how to deal with disap-pointments in his new position. “Therewere times I thought of throwing in thetowel. I was being crushed by my plan.”

He had a good prior year, and his newplan was built on that success. “Thingswere not turning out well. I felt I couldn’tsell and that they were going to fire me.”He tried to resign, but his superior toldhim to shut up and take some advice.

So Burn met with Brown and otherHeartland execs to focus on executing anew plan. “I loved planning, but I wasdoing it all wrong. I focused on my goal,and if I fell short I felt terrible.” Brownurged Burn to build and then work withthe team. Burn got the message: “It’s likefootball. If I build the team and focus oneach player, hiring and training, they willget me to the goal.”

The big change was planning andfocusing on the team. “If you put the planto work, you can accomplish amazingthings.” One pivotal point came whenBurn appointed his first territory manager,and he had to train the new leader. “He

forced me to articulate what I was doing.” In explaining his methods, Burn

learned what he was still doing wrongand started to improve further. Resultsfollowed. “People tell me if they had myteam they would perform well, too. I tellthem, you’re right, you would. It waswhen I started looking out for everyoneelse that I became a good manager.”

The job also became a lot more fun.Burn’s successful team spends a lot of timetogether. “I care about them, and I wantthem to care about me. If they don’t careabout another team member, I want toknow why. If the person is a crook, we willget rid of that person. But otherwise, notcaring about other people on the team andavoiding them is not an option.” Mutualcaring builds loyalty and allows the team toshare tough, candid conversations.

When he loses a top rep to a promo-tion, Burn cheers. “That rep is not goingto work for me forever,” he concludes.

When pressed to meet plan, Burn usedto push his top producers harder because heknew they could do it. But there was a draw-back: “They were withdrawing from me.”

The harder he pushed, the less satisfac-tory the results. Now he reminds the starsthat they know what they are doing andasks how he can help. “They producemore, and we have a better relationship.”

And Burn concentrates on reps who arestruggling. “If you beat them up and runthem down, it works for a while, but lessand less, until they stop listening.”

Brown praises Burn for planning proac-tively, rather than by the seat of his pants asformer top reps often do. Burn respondsthat Heartland is a great place to be reward-ed for being first. “I declared [that my team]would be the first to hit $250,000 in a

month, and then I created a plan aroundthat. I did the math, figured out the infra-structure, and created a lot of little actionplans. I decided I would not teach a big divi-sion meeting but would have lots of littlevoluntary meetings. We went through somepain, but we did not let go of the big goal.”

Burn’s first piece of advice to new man-agers and reps is to simply read the historyof Heartland. “It will give you a chill.When you feel like quitting, you realizepeople have gone through bigger things increating this company.”

Second, he urges, “Create a plan youare in love with and your people are inlove with. Your success will be a byproductof that plan. Be flexible. It’s like football.It’s all about the time left on the clock. Nomatter what happens, stick with the plan,care about others, and it will work.”

Burn took a few questions from the liveaudience at the end of his interview. He toldone questioner that his favorite book, afterthe Bible, was Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged.

To another manager who worried aboutmaking his own sales because he couldnot make a living on overrides, Burn said,“Take care of your own numbers, and setyour priorities first. Then empower yourteam members to get the answers they

need. Don’t fish for them, teach them tofish. Listen to them. Ask how you can helpthem, but also how they can help you.”

And don’t love just your top producers,love the whole team, especially the strug-glers. “You hired them, now love theminto success. You don’t need more peo-ple, you need to help the people you got.”

For new managers struggling with timemanagement, Burn was blunt: “Compart-mentalize your time, including time to getaway. Set expectations. You cannot be allthings to all people. Set times to help yourreps, and tell your reps when it is OK to call.”

He gave one final tip to a novice – andperhaps reluctant – manager: “Do yourjob because you love it and want to do it.Don’t do anything against your will.”

– HENRY CANADAY

essentials M A N A G E R S ’ C O R N E R T I P S P S Y C H O L O G Y S E L L I N G S K I L L S

“It’s like football. If I build the team andfocus on each player, hiring and training,

they will get me to the goal.”

practical wisdom1. Transparent information empowers the sales team.2. Success and stories of success spread more success.3. The team is stronger when members work together, ratherthan compete for the top slot.

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