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8/14/2019 DM B5 Minutes Fdr- Entire Contents- 8-14-03 Commission Meeting Re Access- Public Activities- Process vs Substan

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Minutes of the August 14 , 2003 MeetingThe Chair called the Commission to order at 9:05 a.m. on August 14, 2003. ChairmanKean, Vice Chair Hamilton, and Commissioners Ben-Veniste, Cleland, Fielding, Gorton,Lehman, and Roemer were present.Minutes. The minutes of the July 31, 2003 meeting were agreed to, after the incorporationof two minor changes.Access. The Chair reported on his August 13 meeting with Judge Gonzales. The Judgeconfirmed that all NSPDs, all PDDs, and the four drafts of NSPD-9 would be madeavailable to the Commission; however, no notes may be taken on these documents. TheJudge indicated that he was very nervous about making these documents available, and thathe would strongly prefer that the Commission not publicly disclose its access to thesedocuments. If asked, he prefers that the Commission respond by saying that it "has thematerials it needs."Since the Commission had not agreed to minders during interviews with formergovernment employees, the Judge asked if they could see the transcripts or recordings ofthese interviews. The Chair denied this request The Vice Chair and Commissioner Gortonsuggested that if the Commission receives testimony from former government officials thatdiffers from past accounts, then the Commission can consult with the parent agency on anad ho c basis.The Chair voiced the Commission's concerns to the Judge regarding restrictions on note-taking as a condition of obtaining access, adding that the Commission hasn't agreed to suchconditions. Commissioner Ben-Veniste noted that this decision could be made at a laterdate. Commissioner Fielding observed that the Commission was in uncharted water, andthat it does not want to commit to anything beyond what it needs.The Vice Chair stated that he never recalled seeing presidential deliberative documents, andsurmised that Congress must be a source of the Judge's concerns. Commissioner Ben-Veniste stated that the extraordinary circumstance of the attack justifies the Commission'slevel of access.Commissioner Roemer thanked the Chair for raising these issues with the Judge andworking them through. He noted that NSPD-9 is one of many key documents, and that theCommission needs to be able to assess how effective the NSC is in fighting terrorism underboth administrations. Commissioner Lehman added that he had heard that 280 people nowworked at the NSC, and wondered if the body had become too bureaucratic.

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Commissioner Roemer asked about access to MONs and PDBs from both the Clinton andBush administrations. Regarding the MONs, the Executive Director responded that therewas only one during the Bush administration, and that it is held very closely because it is apost-9/11 operation still in effect. He added that the Commission already has MONs fromthe previous administration.Regarding PDBs, the Executive Director noted that they are encompassed by a CIA request,which also includes any questions about or comments on PDB material. The decision torelease PDBs will be made at the level of the President. The Executive Director reportedthat he did not know what the White House would decide, but that the Commission hasbeen very up front about its need for PDBs.Commissioner Roemer stated that these are the essential documents; if the Commissiondoesn't get them, it can't understand the problem, tell the story, and makerecommendations. The Executive Director said that this was a fair appraisal, and added thatthe Commission needs answers on all of these key access questions. He added that theCommission is now at the climactic wave of decision-making, and these decisions willneed to be made in the next few weeks. The terrain will need to be clear prior to the nextinterim report.After two requests by the Chair, the Vice Chair noted that the Commission was deniedaccess to the PEOC.Commissioner Gorton said that it would behoove both the White House and theCommission to disclose agreements on access. The Chair, he added, needs to be able toanswer questions accurately. Commissioners Roemer, Ben-Veniste, and Cleland concurred.The Vice Chair wondered whether it served the national security interest to acknowledgewhat the White House has made available to the Commission. He noted that theCommission has received access to everything it has requested thus far, and sometimes it isadvantageous to be ambiguous in government policy. He said that the Commission couldnot argue that its requests do not create a precedent, adding that the IntelligenceCommittees will bear down hard on the White House. Commissioner Roemer stated thatthe White House had been very clever about not establishing precedent. They retain thedocuments, but the Commission views them over there. The White House, he contended,has put together a response in a way that protects its rights.Commissioner Fielding stated that the Commission shouldn't resolve this issue today. TheCommission does not need to prove what it has, as the report will clearly show what theCommission has received. Furthermore, that the Commission could specifically commenton what it has not received. Commissioner Ben-Veniste added that the White House wouldhave to give the Commission everything in order to honor the Judge's non-disclosurerequest.



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FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLYCOMM ISSION SENSITIVECom missioner Gorton concurred with the Vice Chair's point, and suggested that the Chair,Vice C hair, and Executive Director think the issues through and come up w ithrecommendations in early September. Commissioner Lehman, noting that the Judge hadrequested a personal favor from the Chair, stated his belief that this [the White House] is agroup with which the Com mission can work, and that the Comm ission ought to think twicebefore risking relations.Commissioner Ben-Veniste noted that the press knows what the Commission has asked for;if the Com mission says that it has received everything up until this point, they'll know. Heobserved that the White House ha s cooperated, but the agencies have not. Yet, at the sametime, the same agencies refer decisions to the W hite House. The E xecutive Directorresponded that the W hite House understands that it is accountable fo r executive branchagencies.Com missioner Ben-Veniste inquired about the status of the Air-Threat Conference Call.The Executive Director stated that the Defense Department had transcribed the recordingby the end of July. The transcript was then forwarded to the Justice Department. Levin saidhe w ould resolve the issue between Tuesday and Thursday a.m. bu t could not, and that itwas his fault. Commissioner Ben-Veniste stated that this was unacceptable, and requestedthat Commission send a letter to Levin with a copy to Gonzales.Com missioner Lehman stated that it should be very clear to the agencies that they do notwant to be named in the next interim report. The Vice Chair suggested that the Commissionsend a letter in the near future to each agency head thanking them fo r what they'veprovided, telling them what the Commission has yet to receive, and informing them aboutthe interim report in September. Commissioner Ben-Veniste praised the idea;Commissioner Fielding suggested that the Commission send the letter in draft form.The Executive Director suggested that the Commission: 1) ask for agency replies inadvance of the next meeting, and 2) request that the agencies m ake all policy decisionsdetermining the Commission's access to these issues. The Com mission agreed to sendletters to agency heads in the next 24-48 hours.Com missioner R oemer inquired about the status of EOF Docum ent Request No. 2. TheExecutive Director responded that the Commission has all of the Bush material and hopesto have all of the Clinton material in the reading room by the end of the month. He addedthat OM B submissions on the counterterrorism budget were delivered the previous day.Regarding DCI D ocument R equest No. 8, the Ex ecutive Director noted that the due datewas July 17. Of the forty categories of docume nts, the agency had delivered one-third of therequests in whole or part. A few of the docum ents are so sensitive that they are being heldat the CIA. He added that the Commission had not been given access to the most sensitivehigh-level policy documents. Com missioner R oemer observed that the delay wasunacceptable, and suggested that the Commission send a letter to Stan Moskowitz. Th e

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FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLYCOMMISSION SENSITIVEExecu tive Director recomm ended that, in addition to the generic agency letter, that theCommission instead consider meeting with Moskowitz in person.Commissioner Ben-Veniste asked if the staff could provide a "road map" of the documentsso that the Comm issioners w ill know what they need to review.Public Activities. The Chair outlined the staff proposal for three policy roundtables in thefall, co-hosted by partner institutions. Commissioner Roemer believed that the proposalleaned too much toward disappearing from the public eye, and that the Commission shouldexclusively coordinate each event. He and Commissioner Lehman suggested that theCommission look at the DNI and MI-5 proposals, S audi Arabia, and transportation andairport security. T he Executive D irector noted that the Director General of the MI-5 hadoffered to brief the Commission at one of its upcoming meetings.The Vice Chair and Commissioner Roemer suggested that public hearings should havemore focus. The Vice Chair added that witnesses should address specific arguments.Commissioner Ben-Veniste suggested that the Commission focus on fact gathering inpublic hearings on topics such as airport security and the FAA and NORAD. He added thatthe Com mission should show the families that it is following up on issues close to theirheart and not allowing slippage. The Chair suggested that the Commission look at the sk ymarshal issue; Commissioner Lehman raised the topic of INS and Customs. CommissionerBen-Veniste asked when the Commission was going to discuss intelligence failures, addingthat he w ould like to talk about w hat such a hearing would look like.Commissioner Lehman stated that the Commissioners are not blank slates and alreadyknow most of what they need to know. The issue is not the inductive process and lengthybriefing books. The Commission, he added, needs to get on with the task of holdinghearings and that he would give up poring over hundreds of pages of documents to do so.Comm issioner Gorton noted that the Commission is mo ving constructively. He believesthat a significant amount of staff time should be devoted to the question of what happened.As for policy recommendations, he stated that the Commission could almost make sometoday; while others would require more study. Neither, he stated, should require hugeamounts of staff time.The E xecutive Director reported that seven out of the eight teams are having difficultykeeping up with the document flow.Process vs. Substance. The Vice Chair stated his preference that the Commission begin todiscuss more substance at Commission meetings. He conceded that it was important todiscuss access questions, but that at some point, the Commission needs to dedicate moretime to substance. He suggested that the next interim report describe the substantivequestions that the Commission is pursuing. The Commission doesn't have to take aposition, but it should begin to shift emphasis from process to substance.



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FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLYCOMMISSION SENSITIVEThe Vice C hair asked that the Commission entertain the idea of an access subcommittee.The C omm ission agreed that two R epublicans and two Democrats should sit on thesubcomm ittee. C omm issioners Fielding, Gorton, Roemer, and Ben-Veniste were nominatedand accepted.Commissioners Roemer and Ben-Veniste asked that the length of Commission meetings beextended to allow for more substantive discussions. Com missioner Ben-Veniste asked thatbriefing binders be sent the Friday before Commission meetings.Warning Briefing. The Commission received a SECRET-level briefing on warning fromthree intelligence experts: Assistant Director for Central Intelligence for Collection CharlesE. Allen, former Nation al Intelligence C ouncil Chairman F ritz W . Ermarth, an d formerNSC Senior Director for Intelligence Programs Mary O. McCarthy.The meeting was adjourned at 1:00 p.m.

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dm b5 minutes fdr- entire contents- 8-14-03 commission meeting re access- public activities- process...

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