Download - 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
1/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 17TH
JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR
BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA
Case No. 09-062943 (07)
_________________________________________________________
RAZORBACK FUNDING, LLC, et al.,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, et al.,
Defendants.
_________________________________________________________
DAY 2 - MORNING SESSION
DEPOSITION OF SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN
DATE TAKEN: December 13, 2011TIME: 8:30 a.m. - 11:08 a.m.
PLACE: James Lawrence King Federal
Justice Building
99 N.E. Fourth Street
Courtroom 11-3
Miami, Florida 33128
Examination of the witness taken before:Michele L. Savoy, Registered Professional Reporter
United Reporting, Inc.
1218 S.E. Third Avenue
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33316
(954) 525-2221
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
2/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 172
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 17THJUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR
2 BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA
3 ________________________________________________________
4 Case No. 10-24110 CACE (19)
5 EDWARD J. MORSE and CAROL A. MORSE,and MORSE OPERATIONS, INC.
6Plaintiffs,
7vs.
8
9 SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, et al.,
10 Defendants.
11 ________________________________________________________
12 Case No. 11-CV-61688-JIC/LSS
13 AMY ADAMS, et. al,
14 Plaintiffs,
15 vs.
16 SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, TD BANK, N.A. and GIBRALTARPRIVATE BANK AND TRUST COMPANY,
17Defendants.
18 _________________________________________________________
19 10-03767-RBR Stettin v. Gibraltar PrivateBank & Trust Co.
2011-03802-RBR Stettin v. Fidelity Gift Fund
2111-02368-RBR Stettin v. TD Bank, N.A.
22
23
24
25
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
3/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 173
1 APPEARANCE FOR SCOTT ROTHSTEIN:
2 LAW OFFICE OF MARC S. NURIK1 East Broward Boulevard
3 Suite 700Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
4 BY: MARC S. NURIK, ESQUIRE
5 APPEARANCE FOR THE TRUSTEE:
6 BERGER SINGERMAN350 East Las Olas Boulevard
7 Suite 1000Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
8 BY: CHARLES H. LICHTMAN,, ESQUIRE
9 APPEARANCES FOR THE TRUSTEE:
10 GENOVESE, JOBLOVE & BATTISTA, P.A.100 S.E. 2nd Street
11 Suite 4400Miami, Florida 33131
12 By: JOHN. H. GENOVESE, ESQUIREDAVID C. CIMO, ESQUIRE
13 THERESA M.B. VAN VLIET, ESQUIRE
14 APPEARANCES FOR RAZORBACK:
15 CONRAD & SCHERER, LLP633 South Federal Highway
16 Eighth FloorFort Lauderdale, Florida 33302
17 By: WILLIAM R. SCHERER, ESQUIREREID A. COCALIS, ESQUIRE
18 IVAN J. KOPAS, ESQUIRE
19 KOZYAK, TROPIN & THROCKMORTON, P.A.2525 Ponce de Leon Boulevard
20 Ninth FloorCoral Gables, Florida 33134
21 By: ADAM MOSKOWITZ, ESQUIRE
22
23
24
25
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
4/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 174
1 APPEARANCE FOR PLATINUM PARTNERS VALUE ARBITRAGECENTURION STRUCTURED GROWTH, LLC:
2GOLDSTEIN, TANEN & TRENCH, P.A.
3 One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3700Two South Biscayne Boulevard
4 Miami, Florida 33131By: SUSAN E. TRENCH, ESQUIRE
5
6 APPEARANCE FOR LEVINSON'S JEWELERS:
7 KOPELOWITZ OSTROW FERGUSON WEISELBERG KEECHL200 SW 1st Ave
8 Suite 1200Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301-2073
9 BY: JAN ATLAS, ESQUIRE
10 APPEARANCE FOR THE COMMITTEE OF UNSECURED:
11 AKERMAN, SENTERFITTOne Southeast Third Avenue
12 25th FloorMiami, Florida 33131-1704
13 By: MICHAEL GOLDBERG, ESQUIRE
14 APPEARANCE FOR T.D. BANK:
15 GREENBERG TRAURIG, P.A.401 E Las Olas Blvd Ste 2000
16 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301By: CARAN L. ROTHCHILD, ESQUIRE
17APPEARANCE FOR RLI ZURICH INSURANCE COMPANY,
18 COLUMBIA INC. & ZURICH INSURANCE:
19 CLAUSIN MILLEROne Chase Manhattan Plaza
20 39th FloorNew York, New York 10005
21 BY: SCOTT L. SCHMOOKLER, ESQUIRE
22 APPEARANCE FOR FEDERAL INSURANCE COMPANY:
23 Alex Hofrichter, P.A1430 South Dixie Highway
24 Suite 204Coral Gables, Florida 33146-3127
25 By: Alex Hofrichter, ESQUIRE
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
5/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 175
1 APPEARANCES FOR MORSE:
2 TRIPP SCOTT, P.A.110 S.E. Sixth Street,15th Floor
3 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301By: GEORGE WALKER, ESQUIRE
4 JOHN M. MULLIN, ESQUIRE
5 APPEARANCE FOR ERNESS CAPITAL, LLC:
6 Kluger Kaplan SilvermanKatzen & Levine PL
7 201 S Biscayne Blvd Fl 17Miami, Florida 33131
8 BY: CASEY CUSIK, ESQUIRE
9 APPEARANCE FOR ST. PAUL FIRE & MARINE:
10 Mills Paskert Divers P A100 N Tampa St Ste 2010
11 Tampa, Florida 33602-5145JOHN A. BLACK, JR., ESQUIRE
12
13 APPEARANCE FOR ROSEANNE CARETSKY:
14 Billing Cochran Lyles515 E Las Olas Blvd
15 Floor SixFort Lauderdale, Florida 33301-2296
16 By: W. TUCKER CRAIG, ESQUIRE
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
6/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 176
1 INDEX
2 CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN
3DIRECT
4 MR. SCHERER 177
5 CERTIFICATE OF OATH 279CETIFICATE OF REPORTER 280
6
7
8 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS INDEX
9 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE NO36 Information on US v. Boockvor 204
10 37 Emails 20938 Email and Money 233
11 Transfer Detail39 Email 239
12 40 Email 24341 Video Snapshot 250
13 42 Emails 25543 Email 267
14 44 Banyon Presentation 269
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
7/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 177
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
3 MR. SCHERER: Are we ready?
4 Madam Court Reporter, would you again
5 swear the witness this morning, please.
6 Whereupon,
7 SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN,
8 acknowledged having been duly sworn to tell the truth
9 and testified upon his oath as follows:
10 THE WITNESS: I do.
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12 BY BY MR. SCHERER:
13 Q Good morning.
14 A Good morning.
15 Q Mr. Rothstein, I'm going to start this morning
16 with questions about TD Bank; but before I do, I want to
17 clear up a couple of points briefly that we discussed
18 yesterday.
19 A Sure.
20 Q I would like to direct your attention to the
21 testimony concerning the money that went into the Banyon
22 Income Fund. That was BIF.
23 A If that was the Ballamor, Barry Bekkedam
24 money?
25 Q Yes, sir. $100 million in that fund, and then
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
8/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 178
1 there was -- do you recall there was a BIF II --
2 A I --
3 Q -- for that?
4 A I don't specifically, Mr. Scherer, recall BIF
5 II, but there were so many multiple accounts, my
6 recollection is -- specific accounts, I remember BIF.
7 Q And BIF was supposed to be like Banyon
8 1030-32, in terms of buying a Ponzi settlement; do you
9 understand that?
10 A Yes, it was a another feeder fund, correct.
11 Q It was a feeder fund, and each Ponzi deal, as
12 had been with all of your other deals, had -- what we
13 call Ponzi paperwork in my office, but your deal packets
14 with --
15 A They were -- the BIF deals were supposed to
16 have --
17 Q Right.
18 A Every deal was supposed to have paperwork.
19 Q Right. Signed by a punitive plaintiff and
20 then redacted and a punitive defendant and on and on and
21 on and with the account numbers and et cetera, et
22 cetera.
23 A Identical to the other paperwork, yes, sir.
24 Q All right. And would you, again, tell us your
25 understanding of whether that Ponzi formality, if you
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
9/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 179
1 will, was adhered to with the Banyon Income Fund; and it
2 began, by the way, in earlier May, late April, with the
3 Von Allmen $50 million, and then -- I mean, it was fully
4 funded by -- I mean, I think the record is clear, you
5 know, in about six weeks or two months it got fully
6 funded.
7 A As time went on, throughout the Ponzi scheme,
8 even before BIF, just so you're clear, paperwork started
9 lagging. You should see dozens, probably, of emails
10 from Frank Preve to me, and also to Mrs. Villegas,
11 saying, we need to get our old paperwork in place, okay,
12 if we ever get audited -- I remember that email
13 specifically -- if anyone looks at this, if we ever
14 have, he used the word, public scrutiny on this, we're
15 done.
16 When we finally hit BIF, a tremendous amount
17 of those deals, to my recollection, were funded without
18 paperwork being done; and it was to the point where I
19 remember an email where Mr. Preve wrote to me and said,
20 we just handed out $25 million without any paperwork,
21 you know, I've got to be able to answer for this.
22 One of the problems was that Mr. Rovin, the
23 quote, unquote, in-house counsel for them, for
24 Mr. Bekkedam's company, for Ballamor, was supposed to
25 come in and do, for lack of a better term, an audit;
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
10/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 180
1 and, obviously, no audit could be allowed to be done.
2 And, actually, as far as I know, no audit was ever done.
3 Q So that the $100-million of the Ponzi went out
4 without even Ponzi pretense?
5 A Ponzi pretense?
6 Q Yes, how about that?
7 A Yes. I think that should be in the
8 dictionary, but yes.
9 Q So they actually stole the funds before you --
10 before the Ponzi could be implemented to back up the
11 theft of the funds; would that be a correct way to state
12 that?
13 A I think the best way to state it, Mr. Scherer,
14 would be that we needed funds to pay off other Ponzi
15 debts, and so we were taking with both hands and
16 worrying about the paperwork later.
17 Q Was that also, in part, because of the greater
18 velocity of the payments you had to make to keep the
19 Ponzi going, and, therefore, you had to steal even
20 greater amounts of money?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And your operation at your office, as well as
23 Frank Preve, just couldn't keep up with it?
24 A That's correct.
25 Q Mathematically, I guess, somebody could have
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
11/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 181
1 computed that this thing is going to crash pretty soon
2 of its own weight. Did you ever think about that during
3 that time?
4 A I thought about that all the time.
5 Q Did you have any conversations with anybody of
6 your -- any of your co-conspirators that this thing is
7 growing so fast that on a mathematical basis, we're
8 going to get caught up in this avalanche of payments
9 that we have to make?
10 A My recollection is the only conversations I
11 had in that regard were with Mr. Preve, and they were
12 very cursory conversations. I kept most of the pressure
13 of this -- because everyone was under enough pressure as
14 it was -- internal, with myself.
15 Q Let me direct your attention to the Morse
16 discussion that we had yesterday -- or examination, and
17 I would like you to think about the email to the Morse
18 family at -- in early October, I think, after your Judge
19 Seltzer false order where you made some reference to Ed
20 and Carol that they made a lot of money on your
21 settlements but that you could -- you were going to talk
22 to George about trying to get them all their money back
23 and have him take their position?
24 A I recall that.
25 Q And you said that Ted was not in favor of
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
12/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 182
1 that, of you taking them out and putting George in the
2 place of -- I presume that would be George Levin and
3 Banyon?
4 A My recollection is that he was not in favor of
5 it.
6 Q Okay. I believe the email was a March '09
7 email, not in -- so it was earlier.
8 Okay. So the -- and why was he not in favor
9 of it?
10 A He would have made less money.
11 Q Now, in your opinion, did TD Bank play an
12 important role in this Ponzi scheme?
13 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection to form.
14 A Yes. They were critical.
15 MR. SCHERER: Sure. May I understand
16 what the objection is?
17 MS. ROTHCHILD: No foundation --
18 MR. SCHERER: No foundation.
19 MS. ROTHCHILD: -- and leading the
20 witness.
21 MR. SCHERER: Okay. Thank you.
22 MS. ROTHCHILD: Are we having a standing
23 objection to that?
24 MR. SCHERER: Yeah. You may have a
25 standing objection, like yesterday, to leading
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
13/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 183
1 questions; and if you want foundation, go
2 ahead and make that and I'll see if it's valid
3 or not, in my mind.
4 MS. ROTHCHILD: Thank you.
5 BY MR. SCHERER:
6 Q So let me direct your attention to the role
7 that TD Bank played in this, in your Ponzi scheme.
8 A They were critical to it.
9 Q In terms of the components that you view as
10 critical, how does TD rate?
11 A Do you want it on a scale of one to ten --
12 Q Yeah.
13 A -- ten being the most important?
14 Q Yes.
15 A They were a ten.
16 Q And why do you say that?
17 A Because they were assisting me in putting fake
18 balance statements into the hands of my investors. They
19 were critical in providing real letters to go on top of
20 the fake balance statements. They were critical in the
21 fact that they had TD Bank employees actually handing me
22 those phony statements in front of the investors; and
23 Frank Spinosa was a fantastic advocate for our firm's
24 supposed financial condition, as well as on several
25 occasions actually verifying phony balances.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
14/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 184
1 Q Okay. I'm going to get into that in depth a
2 little bit later.
3 Did the -- did TD Bank -- is TD Bank's role --
4 let me back up and ask that better.
5 You had 300 or so investors. We talked about
6 that yesterday. You had more investors than you even
7 knew?
8 A Yes. That's correct.
9 Q Do you have a recollection as to whether or
10 not any of these major investors, and if any major
11 people who put millions of dollar in your Ponzi, did not
12 express concern about TD Bank and the only money being
13 in TD Bank?
14 A It's --
15 Q That's a bad question.
16 A I'm sorry, Mr. Scherer. I don't understand
17 the question.
18 Q Yes. It seems that the importance of TD Bank
19 was not only important to you and your Ponzi but
20 important to your investors.
21 A No. I understand.
22 It was critical. It was -- actually, for lack
23 of a better term, it was demanded by the larger
24 investors that we go to a bigger bank. You'll see
25 emails back and forth between Mr. Preve and I where it's
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
15/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 185
1 being discussed that Gibraltar just does not, at least
2 on paper, appear to have the financial wherewithal to
3 withstand any problems that might occur in the event of
4 a banking crisis.
5 Banks were doing terribly at that point in
6 time, as you may recall; and more importantly, we had
7 investors, including the hedge funds, wanting us to get
8 into a bigger, more substantial bank.
9 Q Now, getting into the bigger bank is one
10 thing, but there's another issue about once you got into
11 that bank, concerning how the funds would be segregated
12 or locked up for the benefit of the investor that put
13 the money in.
14 A Are you talking about the lock letters?
15 Q Anything or any other mechanisms to lock up
16 the funds so that you couldn't steal them from a trust
17 account, right?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q And, so, there was a procedure developed
20 concerning what you would tell the investors about how
21 their money was secured or the defendant -- the punitive
22 defendants' money was secured in your trust account,
23 correct?
24 A Correct.
25 Q And the method of convincing them that the
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
16/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 186
1 money of the punitive defendant that went into your
2 trust account was secured for them and them only, how
3 was that accomplished?
4 A We used a document that came to be known as
5 "lock letters."
6 Q We're going into that, and I think I am going
7 to try to give you a copy of all of them.
8 How was the lock letter -- the concept
9 developed and then whether it was refined. That's a
10 compound question.
11 But tell me, how did it happen that you
12 started using lock letters, and how did that evolve?
13 A Okay. Thank you.
14 At some point in time -- I don't remember the
15 time -- an investor -- I do not remember which investor,
16 but it was one of the large investors -- told, notified
17 us, as well as other people involved -- and it would
18 have been either Mr. Szafranski or Mr. Preve or both, as
19 well as myself -- that they wanted to have a procedure
20 put in place. They wanted to see if it was possible to
21 have a procedure put in place whereby, once funds were
22 deposited into their segregated account at TD, there
23 would be an instruction on the account, initiated by
24 this letter, that would, in essence, prevent transfer of
25 any of those funds to anyplace other than to the
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
17/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 187
1 investor who was to be paid with that money.
2 So the defendants' money would go into that
3 account. Okay?
4 Q Right.
5 A And then it would be locked in there, and the
6 only place it would go would be to the investor for whom
7 it was designated.
8 Q So was the lock letter then incorporated into
9 the "shows," as you call them, with TD Bank and the
10 investors?
11 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection to form.
12 BY MR. SCHERER:
13 Q How was the lock letter used?
14 A Okay. It was utilized as part of the package
15 that we gave. The main purpose of it was to give an
16 additional false sense of security to our investors.
17 Q Now --
18 A And I believe you touched on, there were two
19 forms of the lock letters.
20 Q Thank you. I had gotten interrupted by my
21 paralegal there, bringing -- it's a pretty expensive
22 paralegal.
23 And then you say there were two forms. How
24 did the -- how did that develop?
25 A The first thing that happened was, when they
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
18/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 188
1 told us that we required they wanted this, I needed, of
2 course, to see if it was possible. So I got in touch
3 with Mr. Spinosa, and I told him, specifically, what I
4 needed.
5 I said, I need this letter. I said, what I am
6 going to do -- because I wanted to make it as easy as
7 possible for him. I'm going to say: I'm going to draft
8 the letter for you. I'm going to send it to you. It's
9 going to say that these funds can't be put anywhere.
10 Okay. All I need you to do is sign the letter.
11 And he was specifically told at that time by
12 me, I don't care what actually happens to the account,
13 but I need the letter signed.
14 Q Okay. Now, do you have a memory of about how
15 many lock letters we should be looking for?
16 A You know, I would say probably more than a
17 dozen. I mean, once we lock the account, you know, it
18 shouldn't be more than that.
19 Q Okay.
20 A I don't have a specific recollection,
21 Mr. Scherer.
22 Q All right. Did Mr. Spinosa sign -- well, let
23 me ask it differently.
24 Did you forge his signature on lock letters?
25 A No, sir.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
19/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 189
1 Q Okay. So that all of the lock letters that we
2 can find that appear to be signed by Mr. Spinosa, were,
3 indeed, signed by Mr. Spinosa?
4 A Both types: the ones that I prepared for his
5 signature line, and then we eventually had him preparing
6 one -- well, I actually prepared it, sent it to him,
7 told him to place it on his letterhead, to sign it and
8 send it back to me.
9 So it eventually became just a single letter,
10 as opposed to a letter from me being cosigned by him.
11 Q Okay. Did he ever tell you, or did anybody at
12 TD ever tell you, that these lock letters don't mean
13 anything, they can't lock up anything?
14 A Sure. I had that discussion, actually, with
15 Roseanne Caretsky and Mr. Spinosa.
16 Q Okay. Tell us about that.
17 A The conversation with Ms. Caretsky was the
18 first conversation which instigated the conversation
19 with Mr. Spinosa.
20 Q Okay. Take them one at a time for us, please.
21 A At some point in time she actually asked me
22 what that letter was. We were talking about it in one
23 of my trips to the bank, and she asked me just -- it was
24 more as matter of fact: Do you know what these are for?
25 I said, you're going to have to talk to Frank.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
20/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 190
1 Everything was always, you're going to need to talk to
2 Frank.
3 She said, I don't even know how this really
4 could work because you could move money in and out of
5 accounts online.
6 I said, just talk to Frank about it.
7 My recollection is that she then talked to
8 Frank about it, and he said something to the effect,
9 just notate the account and let me worry about it, that
10 any questions pertaining to it, should come back to me.
11 Q All right.
12 A That's basically where we were, and I had a
13 similar conversation with Mr. Spinosa.
14 Q Okay. Tell me -- you had a similar
15 conversation with him, as well?
16 A Well, I asked him, I said, do we have an
17 issue -- at some point in time, I asked him, do we have
18 an issue with these lock letters?
19 And Frank, being the good soldier that he was,
20 always said, you don't have any issues. That was
21 Frank's best line: You do not have any issues with the
22 lock letters.
23 Q I want to direct your attention to a meeting
24 in Mr. Spinosa's office on -- in Cypress Creek, and I'll
25 get you the date later on when I get the document.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
21/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 191
1 I believe you were present, along with
2 Mr. Spinosa, in his office, and Kathleen White, and
3 Barry Damson of the Coquina Group were there, Barry
4 coming from New England somewhere and Kathleen White
5 coming from Corpus Christi, Texas.
6 A I recall the meeting.
7 Q And do you recall that the lock letters were
8 discussed at that meeting?
9 A I do.
10 Q And did you know that Coquina's principal
11 investor was the Hahn family that owned the American
12 Bank in Corpus Christi?
13 A I did.
14 Q So they were bankers?
15 A I did know that.
16 Q And do you know whether or not they had any
17 real questions as to whether the lock letter could
18 really lock up an account from banking -- from a banking
19 standpoint?
20 A I believe they did have that question because
21 it came up during the meeting, but Frank was extremely
22 convincing as to the effect of the letter.
23 Q Now, do you recall that Frank said, we have
24 procedures at TD Bank that cover these lock letters and
25 we have a lot of them for customers and we have a
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
22/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 192
1 procedure to make sure they're implemented properly?
2 ALL PRESENT: Objection to form, lack of
3 foundation.
4 MR. SCHERER: Okay.
5 BY MR. SCHERER:
6 Q All right. You may answer that.
7 A Okay. The answer is yes.
8 Q Okay. Just in case I'm wrong on that lack of
9 foundation, would you tell us what was discussed
10 concerning the lock letter and the bankers' concerns
11 that were raised at that meeting?
12 A Sure. It was brought up -- it was discussed
13 by Mr. Damson and by Ms. White with Mr. Spinosa that
14 they wanted to understand the mechanism behind it.
15 Frank actually gave a fairly long answer, and it was to
16 the effect that TD Bank is one of the largest banks in
17 the country. They have all kinds of the newest computer
18 equipment and the like, that they are very used to doing
19 this; they were not the first people to ever request
20 this, and they can rest assured that their money is
21 secured.
22 Q Now, Mr. Spinosa had -- let me ask this, and
23 then I'll get to Mr. Spinosa's contact with these folks
24 prior to that.
25 The meeting at -- on that day was also to
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
23/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 193
1 convince the Coquina people to make a big investment,
2 their biggest investment up to that point --
3 A That's correct.
4 Q -- do you recall that?
5 A It was what I would say heightened due
6 diligence.
7 Q Do you remember the size of investment?
8 A I do not.
9 Q If I told you 20 -- $20 million, $22 million,
10 does that ring a bell in terms of that deal?
11 A It --
12 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to form.
13 A It doesn't. It doesn't ring a bell. I know
14 it was tens of millions of dollars. I don't recall the
15 exact size, but it was a giant investment that we needed
16 desperately to keep the Ponzi scheme going.
17 Q Do you recall at the time of the meeting with
18 Mr. Spinosa whether the punitive defendant had already,
19 allegedly, put that money in the trust account for the
20 benefit of the purchasers of that settlement?
21 A My recollection is that at that time it was
22 prefunded, but you can check the emails to verify one
23 way or the other.
24 Q Okay. And do you remember whether the subject
25 of that money being locked up came up at that meeting
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
24/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 194
1 with Mr. Spinosa?
2 A It did.
3 Q All right. Tell us about what you recall
4 about that.
5 A He was direct -- Mr. Spinosa was directly
6 questioned by Ms. White and Mr. Damson as to the
7 existence of funds. Mr. Spinosa told them the amount
8 that was in the account -- it was in excess of whatever
9 the amount was, because it would have included -- as
10 Frank knew, it would have included attorney's fees to
11 me, as well.
12 So he gave an in-excess-of number, if I recall
13 correctly, said the money was in the account and it
14 can't go anywhere.
15 Q And do you know -- did you know at that time
16 that he made that representation to Kathleen White and
17 Barry Damson, how much was actually in the account?
18 A Yes. I believe it was $100.
19 Q Now, Mr. Spinosa had a phone call with these
20 folks, you know, a month or two before --
21 A Yes.
22 Q -- do you recall that?
23 A I certainly do.
24 Q And the phone call was set up by emails to
25 have this conference call with Mr. Spinosa and you; do
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
25/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 195
1 you remember who else was on the call?
2 A I don't remember who else was on the call.
3 Mel Klein may have been on it, but I don't recall.
4 Q Mel Klein, Damson and Kathleen White.
5 A I'm certain that that's correct.
6 Q And do you recall that anything about that
7 conversation -- I'm going to get to the gist of it --
8 but that anybody was instructed not to speak and who
9 could speak and that sort of thing from Coquina before
10 the conversation?
11 A Yes. Barry was going to ask the questions --
12 Q Yes?
13 A -- and I specifically notified Mr. Spinosa, I
14 believe in an email. I told Mr. Spinosa, in the
15 email -- you should have a copy of it -- specifically:
16 These are the questions Barry is going to ask, no
17 others; these are the answers you're to give, nothing
18 else, and the call will be over.
19 Q And it was in reference to the lock letters
20 and their funds being locked up, now that they were
21 going to ramp up and put more money into the Ponzi?
22 A It was something to that effect, yes.
23 Q And do you remember, did Mr. Spinosa follow
24 the script?
25 A To the letter.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
26/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 196
1 Q Who is Bill Brock.
2 A He's my uncle.
3 Q And Boockvor is his --
4 A Boockvor.
5 Q Boockvor, okay.
6 A Yes.
7 Q We can put a K in there.
8 That's "Uncle Billy" in the email traffic?
9 A Email traffic, "Uncle Bill," that's how he was
10 known to almost everybody.
11 Q And his position at the firm?
12 A He was -- he had some kind of director's
13 title. Basically he was Irene Stay's assistant.
14 Q All right. And did he have a role in the
15 Ponzi?
16 A He did.
17 Q We're going to talk about that.
18 And was he involved in the -- well, what was
19 called "shows" at TD Bank?
20 A He was.
21 Q I'm going to get into the shows a little bit
22 in detail, but maybe for the record, what's a "show"?
23 What did that mean?
24 A What we came to call the "show" was the event
25 where we would take investors into the bank. I would
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
27/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 197
1 either be meeting with them in one of the bank's -- in
2 the bank's main conference room, or I would simply be
3 walking in for a meet and greet.
4 The most important part of it was where either
5 Roseanne Caretsky or Jennifer Kerstetter -- I think
6 there may have been another time at another bank where
7 it was someone other than them.
8 Q Mahaya.
9 A Mahaya, possibly, yes -- actually, the key
10 part of this is them handing me a sealed envelope with
11 the real letter signed by one of them, along with the
12 fake bank statements that we provide to them.
13 Q Now, the -- you said "sealed"; that's
14 interesting. There's -- are you aware of emails between
15 Mr. --
16 A You can just call him Mr. Brock.
17 Q Mr. Brock, yeah, I won't call him Uncle Billy.
18 -- between Mr. Brock and people at the bank to
19 not seal the envelope?
20 A I actually recall one very specific event when
21 we were doing that and that was because it was one of
22 the events on the -- let's break it into two different
23 pieces.
24 You have what I call a lower level of the
25 show, which is simply where we send our driver. Usually
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
28/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 198
1 Frankie, who did a lot of running for us at the time,
2 would go to the bank to simply pick up that cover
3 letter. In those cases, we had to tell them, please, do
4 not seal the envelope, because, obviously, we're not
5 sending the fake bank statements with Frank. The letter
6 is coming back to us, the real letter, and we're taking
7 the fake bank statements and inserting them ourselves
8 and then sealing the letter.
9 The high-end, the real show that we used for
10 all the major investors was we would go there -- usually
11 Bill, he was our primary runner for this event. He
12 would take -- and it was a very, very specific thing
13 that needed to be done.
14 Once these fake bank statements were prepared,
15 they would be placed in a -- just a regular manila
16 folder, flat -- and we emphasized it had to be flat
17 because we did not want folds in the document before it
18 got to the bank so once Ms. Caretsky or Ms. Kerstetter
19 folded it in with their original letter, we wanted it to
20 match. We took all those precautions.
21 Bill would then take the document down to the
22 bank. He would meet with Ms. Kerstetter or
23 Ms. Caretsky. They would have the letter prepared, I
24 suspect already, because we notified them that we were
25 coming. Bill would give them the fake bank statements.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
29/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 199
1 They would take their letter, the fake bank statements,
2 fold it up, place it in an envelope, and that was that.
3 Bill would leave.
4 Q Do you know -- let me ask you this: The
5 letter from either Kerstetter or Caretsky was like a
6 cover letter that said something like, enclosed is your
7 balance from our -- you know, the bank balance for
8 out -- I think they call it DOS --
9 A Yeah.
10 Q -- snapshot or something?
11 A Early on -- I think it was CKDIAV document was
12 the name of it.
13 Q All right.
14 A We -- but it was from a DOS screen.
15 Q DOS --
16 A We asked them -- early on in the conspiracy,
17 we asked them for DOS screen only because it was the
18 easiest -- most easily manipulated screen for us and for
19 our IT people.
20 Q Okay.
21 A When we were there, the cover letter that is
22 being used, if my recollection is correct, is a cover
23 letter we actually drafted. We sent down a letter to
24 Mrs. Caretsky saying, we would like to you say something
25 like this, and that's what they did. And it actually, I
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
30/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 200
1 think, became a form letter for us.
2 Q Did you ever -- you or your folks at the firm,
3 ever forge Mrs. Caretsky's signature on these cover
4 letters?
5 A On the cover letters, no.
6 Q Okay. These were all originals?
7 A To my recollection, they were all originals.
8 I can't -- she was doing them for us, so there was no
9 reason to forge the signature.
10 Q Do you have information that every time you
11 would ask for a balance, that Ms. Caretsky or
12 Ms. Kerstetter would actually have the -- what was in
13 the account printed up for them so that there would be a
14 record in the computer at TD Bank of them asking for
15 a --
16 A Yes.
17 Q -- balance statement?
18 A Yes. I didn't mean to cut you off.
19 Q Yes?
20 A Yes. Yes. Ms. Caretsky actually told me that
21 they needed to do that.
22 Q And did she ever ask you why in the world you
23 would get a bank statement for an account that had $100
24 in it --
25 A No.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
31/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 201
1 Q -- or some low amount of money?
2 A No.
3 Q I mean, if she's asking for the account
4 statement, repetitively, and -- were there ever monies
5 in those accounts, other than nominal amounts?
6 A The only time money was in those accounts, to
7 the best of my recollection, was on the day of payment.
8 The process would be: the account would remain with a
9 minimum balance. I think they all had $100 in those --
10 excuse me, in each of the locked accounts, just to
11 maintain the accounts.
12 On the day that Irene would notify us that
13 payment was due to a particular investor, we would
14 transfer money from whatever account, usually the 0923
15 account, which was our -- the large, I guess you would
16 call it, Ponzi account. We would transfer money from
17 there, or wherever else we needed to transfer it from,
18 into that, quote, unquote, locked account and then write
19 it out to the investor so that when the investor got the
20 funds, it was coming from the proper account.
21 Q And when you would ask for the -- when would
22 you ask for the account balances so that you could do
23 the switch? It seems like that would always be before
24 the investor put the money in. Did you not ask for
25 the --
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
32/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 202
1 A On, yeah, no, it was way before that, sure.
2 Q As a part of the show?
3 A Yeah, because the investor's money was going
4 into the general account. The investor's money wasn't
5 going into -- number one, it would never go into a
6 locked account because that was supposed to be -- if it
7 was a real deal, it would have been the defendant money
8 going into the locked account. There was nothing in
9 there.
10 Those accounts remained vacant until the day
11 the payment was due, and only on the date payment was
12 due or possibly, if we were doing it the day before, but
13 I doubt it; we were always so strapped for cash to do
14 this. So it would have been the day of, money goes in
15 and then right out.
16 Q But did anybody from the Weston branch ask you
17 why you were coming all the way to Weston to get an
18 account statement with a minimal balance in the account
19 statement when you could look at it on the screen in
20 your office?
21 A No.
22 Q Or you could print it on the screen from your
23 office and give it to whomever you needed to give it to?
24 A No. Not only that, but I would -- all banks,
25 even in the computer age, send out paper statements. We
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
33/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 203
1 got paper statements to be used with our accounts,
2 though we never used them with our accounts, so we could
3 have given them a paper statement, but no.
4 Q Did you provide investors with phony account
5 balances that didn't have a cover letter from
6 Ms. Caretsky or Ms. Kerstetter or anybody else on it?
7 A Over the time, sure. I'm sure we did.
8 Q Okay.
9 A I'm sure we did because we provided account --
10 before we ever got the whole show thing, we were
11 providing account balances. Frank Preve would call and
12 say, I need account balances for somebody.
13 Mr. Szafranski would say, I need account balances.
14 So I'm sure that there were dozens of times
15 when we sent account balances without any cover letter
16 when it was not a part of the show.
17 Q Okay. Let me get back to Mr. Brock.
18 Are you aware that Mr. Brock has been charged
19 by the government with being a co-conspirator in your
20 Ponzi scheme?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q Have you had a chance to review that
23 information?
24 A I did, yes.
25 Q Okay. Let me show you a copy of it, and I'm
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
34/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 204
1 going to ask you some questions on it.
2 MR. KOPAS: It's Plaintiff's 36, the
3 information, the United States v. William
4 Boockvor, B-O-O-C-K-V-O-R.
5 (Thereupon, a document was marked as
6 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 36 for Identification.)
7 MS. ROTHCHILD: Mr. Scherer, could you
8 tell us whether or not this document was
9 provided by the December 8th deadline, or was
10 this something that was presented to us
11 yesterday?
12 MR. KOPAS: I don't know remember, to be
13 honest.
14 MR. SCHERER: I don't know. It was
15 either yesterday or when we did it online, one
16 of the two.
17 Okay. It was in -- thank you.
18 It was in yesterday's package.
19 MS. ROTHCHILD: Thank you.
20 We maintain our objection from yesterday with
21 respect to the production of those documents.
22 MR. SCHERER: Okay. You can have a
23 standing objection to that.
24 MS. ROTHCHILD: Thank you.
25 BY MR. SCHERER:
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
35/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 205
1 Q I've kind of highlighted where I'm going to
2 talk to you about the -- that information.
3 A Okay.
4 Q I think the first one should be Paragraph 3 --
5 A Yes.
6 Q -- where it says that, Boockvor performed --
7 and they say "Brock"; I guess it's Boockvor, so the --
8 either the information says it incorrectly or I did.
9 A No, no, it's correct in the information.
10 Q Okay. Quote, performed various administrative
11 functions, including bookkeeping for your Ponzi
12 operation; is that true?
13 A That's true.
14 Q And Paragraph 11 says that it was further part
15 of the conspiracy that investors were told that the
16 amounts due to plaintiffs were paid into trust accounts
17 at TD Bank, controlled by Rothstein and RRA, and that
18 said funds only would be utilized to pay the potential
19 investors, correct? That's true? We just talked about
20 that. Is that accurate?
21 A That's Paragraph 11?
22 Q Paragraph -- I'm sorry, Paragraph 9.
23 A Nine. Okay.
24 Q Yeah, the next one I have highlighted, I'm
25 sorry. It's eleven on my outline.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
36/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
37/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 207
1 Quote, it was further part of the conspiracy
2 that, at different times, Rothstein would utilize
3 co-conspirators to assist him in carrying out various
4 aspects of the fraudulent investment scheme, including
5 the following: bank employees, who would provide false
6 documents and other misleading information to investors
7 in order to make it appear that the funds purportedly
8 being held in trust accounts for the plaintiffs had not
9 been dissipated.
10 A That's correct.
11 Q Is that accurate?
12 A That's accurate.
13 Q Can you give me a list of all of the bank
14 employees that fall into that category?
15 A At TD Bank?
16 Q Yes, sir.
17 A Frank Spinosa, Roseanne Caretsky and Jennifer
18 Kerstetter.
19 Q Now, we've kind of talked about this in the --
20 in general, but maybe with respect to the role of
21 Jennifer Kerstetter, Jennifer, can you describe her
22 role?
23 A Only to the extent that it's known to me; and
24 that is, at some point in time we were doing a show, and
25 Ms. Caretsky was not going to be there. We were
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
38/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 208
1 obviously concerned because she was the person -- one of
2 our people, the main person, actually, on the inside at
3 that branch.
4 She said not to worry, that she had talked to
5 Ms. Kerstetter about it and that she was on board, and
6 Ms. Kerstetter performed flawlessly; but I had never
7 had, just so you know, independent conversations with
8 Ms. Kerstetter about what needed to be done. That was
9 handled, apparently very well, by Ms. Caretsky.
10 Q Are you aware of any emails where Ms. Caretsky
11 instructed Ms. Kerstetter how to do a show with you, in
12 one -- bullet-point or paragraph fashion: one, two,
13 three, four, five?
14 A She -- I remember one for when we were doing
15 the show up in Deerfield, and if you -- if you have
16 something that can refresh my recollection, I'm sure
17 there is one like that; but I know that there is one in
18 existence that I saw bullet-pointing it out step by
19 step.
20 MR. CRAIG: Let me go back and interpose
21 an objection to the form of the last question.
22 MR. SCHERER: All right. Thank you.
23 BY MR. SCHERER:
24 Q Okay. I'd like to show you, while we are on
25 that subject, a composite here of two emails --
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
39/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
40/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 210
1 A Okay. It starts on December 12, 2008, at the
2 9:38 a.m., with an email from Bill Brock to Roseanne
3 Caretsky and Jennifer Kerstetter: We need to do the
4 show again.
5 Q Okay. And then is that all that's highlighted
6 in that email?
7 I'm sorry. I don't have my -- I gave you my
8 copy.
9 A That's okay. It says, Hola, I need to -- I
10 need those DOS reports, again, each account on a
11 separate page and the use of your conference room, and
12 then it says, "whoops," which is misspelled, and the
13 same letter as last time. Big thanks.
14 Q Okay.
15 A The next email is from Roseanne Caretsky, back
16 to Bill Brock, same date, at 9:47 a.m. -- well, that's
17 showing earlier. Well, that makes no sense because it's
18 in the email chain, so the clock must be off.
19 It just says, Bill, when will this take place?
20 Bill then writes back, same date, 9:59 a.m.,
21 to Roseanne Caretsky, about 12:01: Is that okay?
22 Ms. Caretsky writes back to Bill Brock, same
23 date, December 10th, at 10:04 a.m.: Hey, Bill, I'm not
24 in the office today. If you can make it 1:00 p.m., it
25 would be great. Jennifer will be there. What accounts
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
41/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 211
1 do you want printed out?
2 And then Mr. Brock writes back to Ms. Caretsky
3 and lists the account and says, I'll tell him 1:00 to
4 1:30.
5 Q Okay.
6 A Then that's that email.
7 Q The email date on that, again, was?
8 A December 10th, 2008.
9 Q All right.
10 A Then there's another one. This is the one I
11 was actually referencing in my answer, December 17th,
12 2008, is when it starts. Ms. Kerstetter is writing to
13 Jose Garces, with copy to Jamie Alban -- I don't know
14 who that is -- Ms. Caretsky and Bill Brock.
15 It says, hello, one of our largest clients,
16 Scott Rothstein of RRA -- Rothstein, Rosenfeldt & Adler,
17 sorry, will be coming to your store today to use your
18 conference room. They will be leaving their office in
19 Fort Lauderdale at 4:00 p.m. to head over to Deerfield.
20 Please print out accounts that Bill Brock,
21 office manager, will send you on CKDIAV. Also, please
22 print are out -- it is supposed to say "our"; it says
23 "are" -- this letter on letterhead. See attached file,
24 rraletter.doc.
25 This is how it actually goes down. First,
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
42/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 212
1 Bill Brock, your office manager of RRA, will come in and
2 review the printouts and letter. He will put the
3 documents in an envelope or ask you to do it. He will
4 give the envelope to the person coming to meet with
5 Scott. He may also ask you to hand the envelope. He
6 will instruct you. He will lead.
7 The person to meet with Scott Rothstein will
8 wait in the conference room. Scott will arrive. They
9 will meet the conference room. Here's the contact
10 information you need.
11 And then it gives Bill Brock's email and cell,
12 and then there's just -- it says, please run the
13 following. That's not a highlighted portion, so it was
14 a response back.
15 Q Now, let me ask you if Mr. Brock would -- to
16 the sentence that said, please print out accounts that
17 Bill Brock, paren, office manager, close paren, will
18 send you on CKDIAV --
19 A Mhm-mhm.
20 Q -- when he -- would he send an actual $100
21 balance, or would he send a phony Ponzi account when he
22 would send them to the bank to print out?
23 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection, form.
24 A No, no, he is not sending a statement --
25 MR. CRAIG: Join.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
43/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 213
1 ALL PRESENT: Form.
2 MR. SCHERER: Okay.
3 A He's not sending a statement. He's saying to
4 them, run on CKDIAV, which is their DOS program, the
5 following accounts and email them to me.
6 Q Okay.
7 A We're not sending --
8 MR. CRAIG: Object and move to strike
9 based on the hearsay nature of the previous
10 response.
11 MR. SCHERER: Counsel, just object to
12 form. We don't want to have to call Judge
13 Streitfeld by making speaking objections,
14 please. You object to form, and I'll change
15 the question.
16 BY MR. SCHERER:
17 Q Okay.
18 A Okay. So this is not Mr. Brock sending the
19 actual statements to them. They prepared the
20 statements. We -- we brought the fake statements with
21 us.
22 Q Okay. Was there ever an occasion where the --
23 Ms. Kerstetter or Caretsky would have the fake statement
24 in advance of your meeting?
25 MR. CRAIG: Objection to the form.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
44/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 214
1 A That was always the case.
2 Q Okay. Well, I mean, I'm talking about -- let
3 me ask the question better.
4 Did you ever have Debra Villegas take a
5 statement, a phony statement, the night before because
6 she lived in Weston?
7 A I believe I did, yes.
8 Q Okay. And do you know how that -- what would
9 happen in that situation?
10 A Other than what occurred normally when
11 Mr. Brock would go there, nothing else should have
12 occurred, except she was dropping it off so that Bill
13 did not have to go the next morning and the statements
14 would already be there when I arrived at the bank.
15 Q Now, if the bank printed a -- an actual
16 balance statement every time of the visit --
17 A Yes.
18 Q -- did they provide you with the original that
19 showed minimal balances in it?
20 A I have a recollection, Mr. Scherer, of us
21 getting the originals and filing them someplace that
22 Debra kept them; but I don't recall if that was the
23 circumstance every time.
24 But, yes, there were certainly occasions where
25 they would come back with the original bank statements
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
45/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 215
1 showing the $100 or minimal balances in them.
2 Q All right. Let me catch up.
3 You may have already covered this, but do you
4 have personal knowledge that Spinosa -- that any TD Bank
5 official had actual knowledge that the statements
6 provided to the investors was false?
7 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection to form.
8 A Yes.
9 Q And the -- you have already identified them
10 but who?
11 A Mr. Spinosa, Ms. Caretsky and Ms. Kerstetter.
12 Q Now, I might as well get this out while I'm
13 thinking about it.
14 Did you ever pay Mr. Spinosa anything for
15 helping you in the Ponzi?
16 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to form.
17 A Yes, I did.
18 MR. SCHERER: Okay. What was the
19 objection?
20 MS. ROTHCHILD: Lack --
21 MR. SCHERER: Was there an objection?
22 MS. ROTHCHILD: Yes, there was an
23 objection.
24 MR. SCHERER: What was the objection?
25 MS. ROTHCHILD: Lack of predicate and
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
46/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
47/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 217
1 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to form.
2 MR. SCHERER: What was the matter with
3 that question?
4 MS. ROTHCHILD: Calls for speculation.
5 MR. SCHERER: Beg your pardon?
6 MS. ROTHCHILD: Speculation.
7 MR. CRAIG: Join.
8 BY MR. SCHERER:
9 Q Okay. Mr. Rothstein, did you do anything to
10 cause Ms. Caretsky to cooperate with you?
11 A I did.
12 Q Okay. Would you tell us, and perhaps the
13 ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what you did?
14 A I did two things. I had Frank Spinosa tell
15 her what we were doing, and I paid her approximately
16 $25,000 in cash.
17 Q Okay. Let's go back to the cash payment to
18 Mr. Spinosa; can you tell us the circumstances of that
19 payment?
20 A Yes. Mr. Spinosa was already on board with
21 us. He was already assisting us with the fraud. He and
22 I were having lunch -- we would lunch fairly regularly
23 together.
24 We were having lunch at Bova, in our office
25 building, downstairs. We were sitting at the table that
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
48/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 218
1 I usually sit at, and I slid a very large envelope, one
2 of those -- it's one of the envelopes with -- like the
3 accordion sides. I slid an envelope across the table to
4 him. It contained approximately 75,000 -- somewhere
5 between $50- and $75,000 in cash; I don't recall the
6 exact amount -- across the table to him. And I said,
7 keep doing the right thing by us, many thanks.
8 Q And --
9 A That's all.
10 Q And what did he say?
11 A Thank you.
12 Q Now, do -- other than your memory of the
13 account, do you have any other way that we could verify
14 that event?
15 A I don't know. There are films. I don't know
16 if they're in existence anymore. We had a camera
17 surveillance system at Bova. I don't know if you have
18 checked those films.
19 But other than that, I -- I do not know, other
20 than the fact that they did everything I asked him to
21 do.
22 Q Did you tell anybody that you were doing that
23 or share that with anybody?
24 A I don't recall whether I did or not. You have
25 got to understand, as you will learn as my deposition
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
49/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 219
1 goes on, I suspect, that we were handing out money like
2 Santa Clause hands out candy canes to anybody that
3 needed it for our purposes. So it was certainly not out
4 of the ordinary for me to give someone cash to further
5 our purposes.
6 Q Would it be out of the ordinary for you not to
7 tell people you were doing that?
8 A No. I generally would not tell anyone I was
9 doing it. It was just something I did as a matter of
10 course.
11 Q And did the cash -- where did the cash come
12 from, the stash you talked about yesterday?
13 A Yes, it was in my credenza.
14 Q Now, let's talk about the circumstances of the
15 cash payment to Ms. Caretsky.
16 Do you recall how that happened?
17 A Yes. I went to the bank. I asked her to step
18 outside with me to chat with me. We walked a little bit
19 away from the bank; I can't remember in which direction,
20 and I gave her an envelope.
21 Q And?
22 A And I said, thanks for taking such good care
23 of us, and that it was the end of it.
24 Q Did she ask you what she needed to do to earn
25 that cash or anything like that?
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
50/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
51/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 221
1 knowledge about the bank -- didn't your banking
2 relationship and activities at TD Bank cause some
3 concern on behalf of the folks at TD Bank?
4 A In a very --
5 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection.
6 A To a very limited extent, yes.
7 Q Okay. Tell us about that.
8 A Well, earlier on, when I first got Spinosa on
9 board, I had explained to him the issues that I was
10 having at Gibraltar Bank. I said, you know, we're
11 fighting -- constantly fighting with BSA/AML personnel
12 there. I'm constantly being called on to justify
13 transactions. I don't want to be bothered with this
14 nonsense, and I made it perfectly clear to Mr. Spinosa
15 that if this was going to go on here, then I would find
16 another large bank to do this.
17 He said, not to worry about it. He always
18 told me that he would provide me everything that I
19 needed and that I did not need to worry about it.
20 Subsequently, from time to time, I would check
21 in with him and say, how are we doing, any BSA problems,
22 any AML problems, are we having problems with your home
23 office, et cetera?
24 He would say, don't worry about anything.
25 Anything that's coming up, I am handling.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
52/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 222
1 Q Okay. Did he indicate that things were coming
2 up?
3 A He led me to believe that, but Mr. Spinosa,
4 again, was a very good soldier: Don't worry the person
5 in charge unless you really need to worry them; and he
6 constantly assured me that he had things under control.
7 Q Did anybody from TD's compli -- I'm calling it
8 compliance or BSA, as we talked about yesterday, that
9 would be bank security, ever contact you directly?
10 A Not to my knowledge, no.
11 Q Did -- was there -- do you have a recollection
12 of having any written communication, email or otherwise,
13 concerning items that needed to be investigated about
14 your banking activity at TD Bank?
15 A I don't recall any such thing. It was always
16 my opinion that Frank was handling everything perfectly.
17 Q Well, yesterday afternoon we spent a
18 considerable amount of time reviewing communications
19 back and forth with Gibraltar concerning their
20 compliance people requesting certain kinds of detailed
21 information.
22 A No. You're talking about night and day
23 between the way the banks were conducting their business
24 with me.
25 Q Explain that.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
53/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 223
1 A Well, Gibraltar -- it was clear to me, that
2 Gibraltar -- it would be clear to anyone reading the
3 emails, even without my testimony, Gibraltar, through
4 Ansari and Sanders, was all over me. I mean, they would
5 not stop, no matter what I provided them -- although I
6 really wasn't providing them much -- but no matter what
7 I tried to do to shake them, they would not. I
8 constantly tried to hide behind the
9 attorney-client-privilege veil and Ansari kept calling
10 me out on it.
11 But if not for the actions of Mr. Harris;
12 Mrs. Ellis, to a less degree; and Mr. Hayworth, I have
13 no doubt that my accounts would have been closed long
14 before this thing exploded.
15 At TD Bank, I guess hindsight was great for me
16 because I already knew what I could expect based upon
17 the velocity of the business I was doing. So I
18 explained that -- once I knew Frank was on board, I
19 explained that in greater detail to him and said,
20 basically, I don't want to be bothered with this.
21 And, apparently, whatever he did, worked,
22 because I was never bothered with it at all.
23 Q All right. Did he -- did you ever have
24 occasion to see any written evidence of alerts or
25 suspicious activity reports or loss prevention reports
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
54/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
55/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 225
1 Q What did you have her do?
2 A I had her wire approximately -- it was either
3 $16 or $19 million -- I don't remember the exact
4 amount -- to an associate of mine's account in Morocco.
5 Q And do you recall -- well, do you know where
6 that money came from?
7 A Sure.
8 Q Where?
9 A Ira Sochet's investment.
10 Q He had made a $16-million deposit into a --
11 his locked account some two or three days before?
12 A No, no, no. Remember, their money doesn't go
13 into the locked account. Their money goes into the
14 account -- the general account, 0923, from which we
15 would have been distributing to the punitive plaintiff.
16 Q Okay.
17 A The money that goes into the locked account
18 was allegedly the money coming from the defendant, just
19 so we're clear.
20 Q I'm sorry.
21 A That's okay.
22 Q Yeah, I stepped on it there.
23 Mr. Sochet's 16 million went into your RRA
24 trust account or I -- was that into a trust account?
25 A Sure, it went into -- it was wired into
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
56/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 226
1 whatever trust account he normally wired into, which I
2 believe was 0923, because that's where we had most
3 people wire.
4 Q Do you know whether it was wired into an IOTA
5 account?
6 A My recollection is it was. I believe we had
7 all our monies wired into IOTA accounts.
8 Q We haven't established what an IOTA account
9 is, and -- but tell us what you believe an IOTA account
10 was.
11 A It's an attorney's trust account into which
12 only clients' funds are supposed to go -- are supposed
13 to be held.
14 Q Okay. And do you know whether your name ever
15 appeared on any alerts at TD Bank from overdrawing
16 the -- your IOTA account?
17 A If -- if they did --
18 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to form.
19 A -- I must --
20 MR. SCHERER: Excuse me, let me make sure
21 I -- and the form objection is what?
22 MS. ROTHCHILD: No predicate, calls for
23 speculation.
24 MR. SCHERER: Calls for speculation.
25 BY MR. SCHERER:
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
57/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 227
1 Q Okay. The question is, do you know whether or
2 not TD ever got any alerts -- let me back up.
3 Did you overdraw your IOTA trust account at TD
4 Bank?
5 A I did.
6 Q And did you do it often?
7 A I don't know how many times. It wasn't a
8 concern to me because Mr. Spinosa was handling it.
9 Q And do you know whether -- well, let me ask
10 this: Did anybody from TD Bank ever address you about
11 an alert of overdrawing your IOTA trust account?
12 A I didn't -- don't recall one way or the other.
13 If it did, it doesn't stand out in my mind. It was a
14 nonevent for me.
15 Q Do you know whether the IOTA trust accounts
16 that are maintained by the Florida Bar generate, on a
17 monthly basis, a list of the law firms that overdraw
18 their trust account?
19 A It is -- it is my understanding from early
20 conversations with Mr. Spinosa about the trust accounts,
21 when I was giving him his -- for lack of a better term,
22 what is called his list of things to watch for, judging
23 from my experience with Gibraltar, I told him,
24 specifically, that my IOTA accounts needed to be
25 watched -- I just called them "trust accounts" -- needed
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
58/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
59/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 229
1 MR. CRAIG: Objection to form and
2 predicate.
3 BY MR. SCHERER:
4 Q I want you to assume that.
5 Do you know anything about that?
6 A No.
7 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection.
8 BY MR. SCHERER:
9 Q And by not knowing anything about that, I
10 guess I can assume that nobody from TD ever told you
11 that?
12 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection, form.
13 MR. CRAIG: Form and predicate.
14 A The only thing Mr. Spinosa would tell me,
15 Mr. Scherer, is if there was a serious issue that he
16 could not handle, and those never came up.
17 Q And did -- and I guess the answer would be
18 that nobody from the overdraft department of TD Bank --
19 and I am probably not calling it the right thing -- ever
20 contacted you directly as the borrower?
21 A No, sir.
22 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection to form.
23 BY MR. SCHERER:
24 Q Do you think that if TD Bank had investigated
25 you at any stage of your relationship with TD Bank, that
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
60/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 230
1 your Ponzi scheme could have continued in the face of
2 that investigation?
3 ALL PRESENT: Objection, form.
4 BY MR. SCHERER:
5 Q Go ahead. I'll take that.
6 A It absolutely would have ended.
7 Q Okay. And why do you say that?
8 ALL PRESENT: Same objection.
9 A Because they were our main banking institution
10 for literally hundreds of millions of dollars. Had they
11 notified anybody, cut off our banking, it would have
12 been impossible, at that time, to recover.
13 Q The when you say "hundreds of millions," do
14 you know it's, indeed, billions, not hundreds of
15 millions?
16 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object.
17 A I have to assume, okay, that with the velocity
18 of transactions, that it would be over a billion in --
19 when you're counting up all the transactions going back
20 and forth -- I mean, look at the bank statements; I'm
21 moving money like lightning: in, out, in, out, back and
22 forth, from account to account, between banks. So, no,
23 that wouldn't surprise me in the least.
24 MR. CRAIG: Motion to strike, based on
25 the speculative nature of the response.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
61/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 231
1 MR. SCHERER: You know, you don't have to
2 do that. You only need to object to form --
3 and, you know, you keep doing it, and that's
4 kind of like a little speech, and you really
5 don't need to do it, Tucker, so I wish you
6 wouldn't.
7 Just object to form, and I'll try to
8 clean up the question as best I can, but you
9 don't need to make a speech.
10 BY MR. SCHERER:
11 Q I'm going to direct your attention to the
12 Morocco -- do you know -- why did you choose Morocco?
13 A I got good advice.
14 It was a nonextradition country. I had been
15 introduced by one of my -- one of the people in the firm
16 that I trusted named Sara Coen, who was not involved in
17 this, to a Mr. Ahnick Kahlid, who had a very, very tight
18 connection with Morocco, to serve as my, for lack of a
19 better term, guide in Morocco. I felt comfortable
20 there, based upon everything I had heard about it; and,
21 of course, again, most importantly, it was
22 nonextradition.
23 Q Did you research or learn in advance about
24 wiring money to Morocco and any special conditions that
25 might be attendant to doing that?
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
62/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 232
1 A The only thing that I had learned about from
2 discussions with Sara --
3 Q Sara?
4 A Sara Coen.
5 Q Okay.
6 A -- was that she had spoken to Mr. Kahlid and
7 said that when I wire the money, there should not be an
8 issue and to let my bank know that we were wiring the
9 funds.
10 Q And did you let your bank know that -- that is
11 TD Bank know, in advance, that you were going to be
12 wiring money to Morocco.
13 A I called Mr. Spinosa before the wire went. I
14 said, I'm going to be wiring a large sum of money from
15 my account to an account in Morocco and to please make
16 sure that it went through immediately.
17 Q Do you have any information about -- well, let
18 me ask this: What did -- Mr. Spinosa, how did he
19 respond that?
20 A No problem.
21 Q Was there any discussion about them -- you
22 know, Morocco being a problem place to wire money to
23 from a bank?
24 A Not from him, no.
25 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's Exhibit 38, it's
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
63/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 233
1 a composite exhibit. The first email is Bates
2 stamped Rothstein S 1155 to 1161; then a money
3 transfer detail, which is Bates stamped
4 TD/Razor 7886. These were produced by the
5 deadline.
6 (Thereupon, documents were marked as
7 Plaintiff's Composite Exhibit No. 38 for
8 Identification.)
9 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
10 BY MR. SCHERER:
11 Q I would like you to take a look at that, and
12 you have my only copy, once again, so you can help me
13 through with that, if you will.
14 A Okay.
15 Q All right. Let me see how to read it. It --
16 well, let's go -- is this on top?
17 MR. KOPAS: It is on the back.
18 BY MR. SCHERER:
19 Q Go to the last page first. It's Razorback --
20 TD/Razor O07886.
21 A I don't think I have --
22 Q It should be the last page there.
23 A Not last.
24 Q It's a form that says money transfer.
25 MR. KOPAS: I think it's to your left --
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
64/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 234
1 or your right.
2 A Oh, yes. Now I have it, yes.
3 Q And that appears to be the form that was
4 generated -- well, you tell me: What do you -- can you
5 identify this document?
6 A It's the wire transfer detail processing
7 information for my wire to Morocco.
8 Q Did you initiate -- do you recall how this was
9 initiated, this wire transfer, in terms of how you did
10 it?
11 A My recollection is, is I told Irene to wire
12 the money.
13 Q Do you know whether she did it from your
14 terminal in your office?
15 A I do not know. I think I saw something on
16 this other e-mail that says she simply -- let's see.
17 No. I don't see -- given the information, I don't know
18 one way or the other how she did it.
19 Q Okay. And you've got Kahlid on here. Do you
20 see that halfway down, the credit information?
21 A I do.
22 Q And then you've got -- down at the bottom it's
23 got "Originator to beneficiary information, the purchase
24 of manufacturing business."
25 You see that?
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
65/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 235
1 A I do.
2 Q Now, do you know -- where did that information
3 come from?
4 A No idea.
5 Q Were you attempting to or thinking about
6 buying a manufacturing business in Morocco?
7 A No. Actually, I was thinking about opening
8 nightclubs there.
9 Q Okay. Anybody from TD ask you any questions
10 about the purchase of a manufacturing business in
11 Morocco?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. Let's go to the second page. That
14 would be the Bates-stamped ending in 56. It's got an
15 e-mail from you to Irene --
16 A Yes.
17 Q -- and the subject is "Hyatt Regency Casa
18 Blanca Registration."
19 You see that?
20 A I do.
21 Q Kahlid, or however he pronounces his last
22 name --
23 A Kahlid, yes. Ahnick Kahlid.
24 Q Ahnick Kahlid.
25 And would you read what you wrote there in
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
66/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
67/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 237
1 MS. ROTHCHILD: Okay. Well, my question
2 was, were all of the documents that were in
3 this composite that you have just shown the
4 witness, produced by December 8th by the
5 5:00 p.m. deadline, or were they in the
6 production yesterday?
7 MR. SCHERER: I believe both.
8 BY MR. SCHERER:
9 Q Of the --
10 MS. ROTHCHILD: Well, is there something
11 different about the documents that were
12 produced yesterday that were -- you're saying
13 were already produced on the 8th?
14 MR. SCHERER: Are you asking me a
15 question?
16 MS. ROTHCHILD: Yes, I am.
17 MR. SCHERER: And what's the question?
18 MS. ROTHCHILD: The question is, is there
19 something different about the documents that
20 were, in your words, re-produced yesterday, if
21 you had already produced them on the 8th? Is
22 there something different about them? Why
23 were they re-produced?
24 MR. SCHERER: I just -- out of an
25 abundance of caution, so that you wouldn't
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
68/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 238
1 keep objecting, I made sure you got them. I
2 had them electronically and in paper and --
3 and that's -- of course it's not as though you
4 haven't seen these documents in depositions
5 and in the trial in Coquina, and every place
6 else. So, you know, you have copies of them.
7 Thank you.
8 MS. ROTHCHILD: That doesn't answer my
9 question, but thank you.
10 MR. SCHERER: You know, I don't hear very
11 well, Caran. Did you say -- was there some
12 other objection?
13 MS. ROTHCHILD: I said you didn't answer
14 my question.
15 MR. SCHERER: Oh, okay.
16 MR. KOPAS: She said that something was
17 re-produced. It wasn't re-produced because it
18 was different. It was just re-produced a
19 second time, if that answers your question.
20 MS. ROTHCHILD: Okay. So are you still
21 contending --
22 MR. SCHERER: I don't want to argue
23 anymore because you're taking up my time.
24 MR. KOPAS: Defendant's --
25 Plaintiff's 39, it's an email Bates labelled
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
69/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
70/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 240
1 Q Yeah. And then do you have a -- there is a --
2 an e-mail that appears to be from Wendy Tinachio. Do
3 you know who she is?
4 A That's Frank's assistant.
5 Q Okay. And she says -- and then it -- down at
6 the bottom it's Frank Spinosa: This is the wire.
7 You see that?
8 A Yes. It's the same heading from my original
9 e-mail.
10 Q And then you have an email from Frank Spinosa
11 to you, October 27th, '09, "Subject: This is the wire."
12 Right?
13 A Actually, first is an email from Wendy to
14 Frank Spinosa: "This is the wire."
15 Q Thank you.
16 You're reading from the bottom. You're again
17 better than I am at that. Thank you.
18 And then at the top it's -- it's Frank to
19 you -- Mr. Spinosa to you?
20 A Yes, telling me that he'll keep monitoring it
21 but it should go out at any time.
22 Q Thank you.
23 Now, the 27th was an interesting day for you,
24 wasn't it?
25 A Are you referring to the day I left?
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
71/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
72/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 242
1 A It gets a little complicated, Mr. Scherer.
2 That is, Boden was a co-conspirator. Pearson became a
3 co-conspirator through Boden.
4 Q All right. Now, do you remember Richard
5 Pearson coming over to your table while you and
6 Mr. Spinosa was at lunch that day?
7 A I believe he came by, but I don't recall what
8 actually happened.
9 Q All right. Do you -- well, let me see if this
10 refreshes your recollection. Do you remember that there
11 was a bit of a scene when Mr. Pearson came to you that
12 day?
13 A I was in such a poor frame of mind that day,
14 I -- I have a great deal of difficulty recollecting what
15 was going on. I remember reading emails about this,
16 about him apparently, for lack of a better term,
17 accosting us about money not being made -- paid; but I
18 don't have an independent recollection of that moment.
19 I mean, a lot things I could -- when I gave
20 him the money, Mr. Scherer, I remember that. I remember
21 where I was sitting. This is all like -- it's very
22 foggy, to say the least.
23 Q Fair enough.
24 A I don't want to guess.
25 Q Fair enough.
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
73/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 243
1 I think it's time to take a break for maybe
2 ten minutes or so.
3 (Whereupon, a recess was had.)
4 BY MR. SCHERER:
5 Q Let me show you a -- what we're going to mark
6 as Plaintiff's 40, kind of a composite of a couple of
7 pages.
8 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 40 is Bates
9 labelled TD/Razor 1167 and TD/Razor 1065.
10 (Thereupon, the documents were marked as
11 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 40 for Identification.)
12 BY MR. SCHERER:
13 Q Mr. Rothstein, I would like you to take a look
14 at that, and I think we start on the bottom of the first
15 page there, Bates stamped ending in 67, and it appears
16 to be an e-mail from you to Mr. Spinosa and dated
17 9/23/09.
18 A Yes, I see that.
19 Q All right. And you've got -- you say, Hey, my
20 brother. Hope you're having a great week. Can you
21 please prep another one of the attached letters for me
22 and restrict the following account, please. This is a
23 biggie for us, dash, ellipses, 11. Simply change the --
24 and it says, shall only disburse to as follows, quote,
25 shall only be disbursed to Banyon Investment Fund, LP,
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
74/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 244
1 account number, and then it's redacted, at TD Bank,
2 routing number, and change the "re" portion of the
3 letter as follows: Re: account -- and then the number
4 and it's got RRA-BIF.
5 This is really important. We are expecting
6 250,000 in next week. Thanks, Bro. I need it today, if
7 possible. Love you, Me.
8 And Mr. Spinosa returned the email, and can
9 you read what he said?
10 A He actually -- what he did was he forwarded it
11 to his assistant, Wendy Laterio, and said, "Please
12 prepare a letter as outlined. Thanks."
13 Q All right. Now, did you ever forge any emails
14 from Mr. Spinosa? We have emailed communication back
15 and forth. Is this an original email --
16 A Let me answer both --
17 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to form.
18 MR. SCHERER: Let me ask it one at a
19 time. I didn't do a good job on that. Thank
20 you.
21 BY MR. SCHERER:
22 Q Do you recall this email?
23 A Actually recall it, no, but it's -- it's very,
24 very like emails that I would write.
25 Q Do you have a recollection of forging emails
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
75/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
76/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 246
1 and that email chain that precedes it, is forged.
2 Q Okay.
3 A The -- and the reason behind that was very
4 simple: I was not sending -- we were already borderline
5 in what we were doing with email traffic. I was not
6 about to send an email over TD Bank's email system
7 telling him to send me a forged balance letter. These
8 lock letters appeared to pass muster, and we weren't
9 pushing our luck.
10 The second circumstance where the forgery may
11 have occurred would be in an instance where Mr. Spinosa
12 was unavailable. Although it certainly appeared that I
13 was his only client, the way he was handling me, he did
14 have other things to do. And on occasion, I don't
15 really recall instances, but it's certainly possible
16 that when Mr. Spinosa was out on vacation doing
17 something and I needed something from him immediately,
18 then I might have forged it.
19 Q Did Mr. Spinosa ever discuss with you any
20 bonuses or any other advancement he made at TD because
21 of the amount of deposits or the amount of business you
22 were doing with TD Bank?
23 A Only to the extent that he told me he was
24 doing very well based upon our banking with the bank.
25 Q Now, can you tell from this exhibit whether
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
77/129
-
8/3/2019 2011-12-13 Rothstein Scott AM
78/129
839a5eac-f3f3-4572-a5a7-ff6
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 248
1 A There was no need to.
2 Just understand that Frank could have been
3 presented with anything related to me and he would have
4 verified it.
5 Q So when we look down in the right-hand corner
6 and see that's a TD/Razor production, that came from TD
7 Bank, so that probably answers the question as to
8 whether it's a forgery or not?
9 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection to form.
10 A In looking at this, this appears to be one of
11 the ones that is not forged.
12 Understand, this --
13 Q Yes.
14 A -- that Frank was clearly signing lock letters
15 for me, so I have no reason to forge a lock letter,
16 unless he's not available for some reason: not at his
17 computer, can't get ahold of Ms. Laterio, on vacation,
18 whatever it may be.
19 I mean, this was a system that we had set up.
20 You have enough of them