episode #7: alan hoffman of blank rome llp | march 10 2017 · transcribed audio in the show notes...

Episode#7:AlanHoffmanofBlankRomeLLP|March10th2017

©2017TheLionGroupwww.LionGroupRecruiting.com/Podcast1

Hellolisteners,thisisChrisBatz,yourhostoftheLawFirmLeadershippodcast.Iwantedtothankyouall,whotaketimetolisten.Iamaskingforyourhelp,I’minterestedintopicsyou’dliketohear,peopleyousuggestIintervieworanyotherrecommendations.Youcancontactmebyemailingallfeedbacktopodcast@findthelions.com.

Also,I’dliketotalkaboutreviews.OniTunesreviewsmatter.So,ifyouappreciatethepodcastandhaven’talready,pleaseleaveareviewoniTunes.Positivereviewsmakethepodcastmorevisibletoothers.

And finally, I’ve provided links, in the show notes, about the subjects mentioned on this episode and others, and a link to thetranscribedaudiointheshownotesforeachepisode.

Asmanyofyouknow,weinterviewcorporatedefenselawfirmleaders,partnersandlegalconsultants.You’relisteningtoEpisodeSevenoftheLawFirmLeadershippodcast.

Chris:WelcometotheLawFirmLeadershippodcast,I’myourhost,ChrisBatzwithTheLionGroup.

Today,IhavethepleasureofspeakingwithAlanHoffmanofBlankRome.AlanservesaschairmanandmanagingpartnerofBlankRome.YoubeganyourcareerasthefederalprosecutorwiththeUnitedStatesDepartmentofJustice,havingbeenrecruitedtoserveaspartof theAttorneyGeneral’sHonorsProgram.HeservedasaSupervisingAssistantUnitedStatesAttorneyandreceived theAttorneyGeneral’sSpecialCommendationAward.

Asidefrommanagingthefirm,youalsohavebeentheheadoflitigationandalsopracticecomplexcorporateandcriminallitigationatthefirm.

WelcomeAlantotheLawFirmLeadershippodcast,I’mdelightedtohaveyouasourguest.

Alan:ThankyouChris,delightedtobehere.

Chris:Alan,we’vetalkedaboutatonofreallygreatthingsbeforethepodcaststartedrecordingandIreallywanttogiveyoutimeforthat.So,lastyearyouguysbuttonedupareallyimportantdealwithDicksteinShapiro,alegacyfirminDC.I’dliketojumprightinandjustgetsomeofthedetailsofwhattookplace,rightasChristmaskickedoff.IthinkitwasDecember24th,2015.

The100+AttorneyDicksteinShapiroDeal

Alan:Sure,happytodoso.Wedevelopedastrategicplanin2013whichwastogrowinTier1citiesthroughouttheUnitedStates.

BlankRome,ourfirmstarted70yearsagoinPhiladelphiaanditwasprimarilyknowsasaPhiladelphialawfirm.Sopartofourplanhasbeentogrownationally,inasIsaid,Tier1cities.ButwhenwehaveanopportunitytogrowinWashington,weseizedit.

Ihadlearned,throughvarioussources,thattheDicksteinShapirofirmwashavingsomeissuesandhadbeenindiscussionswiththeBryanCavefirmforamergerthatforavarietyofreasonsdidn’thappen.So,assoonasIreadthatIpickedupthephoneandcalledJimKelly,thechairmanandmanagingpartnerofDicksteinandithappenedtobeChristmasEve,anddecidedthat,let’sleaponthisasquicklyaswecan.

Wespokethatafternoonforthreehours,onDecember24thandthenJimwasinmyoffice, thatwasaThursday, inmyofficethatMonday,whichIthinkwasthe28thandthentherestishistory.

So, itwas amatter of really seizing an opportunitywhen itwas there. It’s nowbeen a little bit over a year, everything is goingfantastically on both sides. We’ve spent a lot of time on integration, but it’s been a real game changer for us, in terms of ourWashingtonDCpresence.

“Whileyou’restandingtheredecidingwhetherornottogetyournet,thebutterflyisflyingaway,”

Ihavealittle,Idon’tknowwhatyouwouldcallit,aframedlittlesayingonmydeskthatsays,“Whileyou’restandingtheredecidingwhetherornottogetyournet,thebutterflyisflyingaway,”andthisistheDicksteintransactionandmyphonecalltoJimKelly,is



basically a reaction to,while you’re standing there decidingwhether or not to get your net, the butterfly is flying away. So,wegrabbedthenetandwegrabbedthebutterfly.

Chris:Andknowingthatitdidn’tworkoutforBryanCave,whydidthisworkforyou,wheredidyouguysseetheconnection,thesynergyandwhythisdealworkedtoyourfavor?

Alan:TheBryanCavedealwasdoneas,Ithink,asamergerandourswasanacquisition,notanactualmerger,andIthinkwhatwereallyfocuson,intermsofopportunitieswithvariousdifferentlateralgroupsorlawfirmsisculture.Arethesepeoplethatyouwanttopracticelawwith?

I think that once you get past certain conflict issues, the rest is really, arewe going to be able to be shoulder to shoulder, andwhetherthedifferentstormsthatmayhitinthelegalindustry?Andwhatyouwantissomebodythatisgoingtoapproachissuesinthesamewaywedo.Wehavenosharpelbowsinourhallway.Wehaveacompensationsystemthatreflectsteamwork.

So,oneofthethingsthatwewereveryimpressedwith,thelawyersatDicksteinShapiro,wasthattheywereverysimilarintheircultureandintheirbeliefsandgoalsasBlankRomelawyersare,andthereforethat’swhyIthinkthemarriagehasworkedsowell.

HavingaStrategicPlan

Chris:That’sexcellent.LetmeaskyouthisAlan,havingbeenontheothersideofthattransaction,howwouldanotherfirmbereadyfor such a deal? Imean, this added 100 plus attorneys to your firm, you guys are now over 600 attorneys, that’s a substantialincrease.Imean,there’sbeendefinitelyover20%increaseonrevenuefromthearticlethatwasjustreleasedtoday,fromTheLegalIntelligencer,today’sMarch8th.Howcanafirmbereadyforsomethinglikethat?

Alan:Ithinkit’sallpartofhavingastrategicplanthat,asIsaid,weadopteditin2013andconductingyourselfinamannerthat’sconsistentwiththatplan.WeknewthatwewerelookingatopportunitiesinWashingtonDCandwantedtogrowinWashingtonDC.We knew the type of lawyers that would fit in with our law firm and therefore this came up and we were able to seize itimmediately.

Anotherthing,inadditiontothisbutterflyoneIgaveyouearlierChris,thatIliveby,ishowcanwedistinguishourselvesfromthemasses?Andyouknow,there’salotoflawfirmsintheUnitedStates,andwecompetewiththoseprincipallyintheAMLaw100.So,whatcanwedotodistinguishourselvesfromothers?Andthatis,seizingopportunities,whenthey’rethere,totakingalookatit,being aggressive. There’smanymore opportunities that we have passed on, than those that we have successfully brought to aconclusionofacombinationofsomeformoranother.

Distinguishyourselffromthemasses

Chris:So,whydon’tyougoaheadandjumpintothatlawschoolprofessorofstory,ProfessorCollinsandthesayingthat’sbeensoimportant?

Alan:Well,atVillanovaLawSchool,backin1993,1994,thereweremidtermexamsthattheprofessorswouldgiveyoubutwouldn’tcounttowardsyourgrade.TheonlythingthatwouldcountweretheexamsthatyouwouldtakeinMay.So,inDecemberthereweremidtermexamsandIrememberIthoughtitwasverysmart,I’llpurchaseoutlinesfromupperclassmenandI’llpreparefortheseexamsinthatway.Iwentin,tooktheexamsandendedupwiththreeCsandaD.TheDwasincontracts.

Well,eachprofessorwouldthenaskyoutocomeintotheirofficeandtheywouldreviewyourexamwithyouandthenexplainwhatitisyoudidwrong,howyoushouldapproachtakingalawschoolexam.

Havingbeenanaccountingmajorincollege,everythinginmyworld,inthatworldwasoneandonehastoequaltwo,thedebitshavetoequalthecredits.So,thisthinkinginadifferentwaywassomethingcompletelynewtome.

So,IgoinandImeetwithProfessorCollinsandunlikelikealltheotherprofessorswhoreviewedyourexamwithyou.Hesaid,“I’mnotgoingtoreviewtheexamwithyou,I’mgoingtotellyouMrHoffman,thefollowingthings.There’llbesixquestionsonthefinalexam, I’ll readyouranswer for fiveminutes for eachquestion, therefore sir, youhave30minutes to impressmewithwhatyouknowaboutthelawofcontractsandyourjobistodistinguishyourselffromthemasses.Youneedtodistinguishyourselfpositively,andyou’llgetanAoraBandnegativelyyou’llgointheotherdirection.”Andthatcomment,distinguishyourselffromthemasses,hasbeensomethingthatIhavelivedbyandItrytohaveourlawfirmemulateaswell,aswegoforward.

AndIendedup,afterthat,finishingeighthintheclass,havingdecidedthatpurchasingoutlinesandlearningthatwaydidn’tworkforme.So,IwentbackandIbasicallyoutlinedeverycourseIhadfromthebeginningoftheyearandasIsaid,finishedeighthoutof200andsomethingintheclass.

Chris:That’sexcellent.

LawStudents:OneWayGettingaLawJob

Alan:ButI’veconductedmyselfandtheadviceIgivetoyoungerlawyers,ishowdowedistinguishourselvesfromthemasses?YoumentionChris,thatIstartedwiththeUSAttorney’sOffice.



So,whenyou’reathirdyearlawstudentandyousay,“Iwanttobealitigator,”inmyview,oneofthebestplacestolearnhowtobealitigatoristheUnitedStatesAttorney’sOfficesorfederalclerkship.IsaidIwantedtobeintheUSAttorney’sOffice.SoIwrotetoeveryUSAttorney,upanddowntheEastCoast.Everyonewrotebacktomethatyouhadtobeoutoflawschoolatleastayearortwoexperiencebeforetheywouldtalktoyou.

BecauseIhadworkedattheDA’sofficeinthesummerofmyfirstyearoflawschoolandhadworkedatthePublicDefender’sOfficeduring lawschool, theUSAttorney inDelaware,apparentlymisreadmyrésumé, thinkingIhadexperienceand invitedmeforaninterview.


Alan:And thenofferedme the job rightoutof lawschooland I’llnever forget, itwasAprilwhenhe said tome, “Whencanyoustart?”andIsaid,“Well,Ihaven’ttakenthebarexamyet,”andhe,Ithink,wastooembarrassedtoadmitthatmaybehemisreadmyrésumé.Sohesaid,“Noproblem,I’llholdthepositionopenforyou,”andIstartedinOctober,onceIhadpassedthebar.

Chris:Whatanopportunity.

Alan: Ihadreceivedthebarresults,soagainitwashowmanypeopleinthirdyearoflawschoolthroughoutthecountrydecidedthattheyweregoingtoapplytoUSAttorney’sOffices,knowingthatyouhadtohaveexperiencebeforeanybodywouldacceptyou?Idon’tknowhowmany,butIknowthatIfigured,Ididn’tcarehowmanyrejectionlettersIreceived,thatiftherewassomebodythatwouldgivemetheopportunity,Iwouldseizeit.SoIdistinguishedmyselffromthemassesandwentforit.

Chris: Yeah, this is just such timely advice Alan, there are so many law students that hope that I can somehow place themsomewhereandinrealitytheyjustneedtohavethatkindof‘gogetit’andimpresssomebodymentalitythatyou’vedone.

IknowhowtheUSAofficehas justcontinuedtohavesuchareflectionon litigators, I imagine thatyou’vebeenexposedtosomeprettyincrediblecasesthatthenhasallowedyoutostepintoleadershiproleswithinlitigation.Wouldyoumindsharingifthat’sthecase?

SirAlan,theDefenderoftheEast

Alan:Sure. Ibecamechairmanof the litigationdepartmenthere inBlankRome, Iwaschair for12yearsbeforegoingontootherleadership positions at the law firm. The clients that I represented formany years, starting in the 90s,with Lyondell ChemicalCompanyinHoustonTexasandtheirchiefoflitigationwasagentlemanbythenameofJoeSpeelman,who’ssinceretired,andtheyhadamajor litigationthroughoutthecountry involvingachemicalthattheymanufacturedcalledMTBEthatwasagroundwatercontaminantifitleaked.SoweweredefendingLyondellinanumberofcasesin17states,allthroughoutthecountry.

JoeSpeelmanhad,inordertomotivatethelawyersthatrepresentedLyondell,hehadauniqueapproachtolitigation,whichwas,hewasnotgoingtosettleacaseunlesshethoughtthatthecompanyhadactuallydonesomethingwrong,thathethoughtthemorethathesettledcases,themoretheplaintiff’sbarwouldviewLyondellasasofttargetandcomeafterthemanditwouldcostmoreinthelongrun,byhavingplaintiffsconstantlysueLyondell.

So,heencouragedeverybodytogototrialoncasesandhewaswillingtosupportthat.There’snotmanychiefoflitigationsatmajorcompanieswillingtotakethatrisk,butthatwashisphilosophy.Andinordertomotivatehislawyers,hehad,whathecalledTheKnightsoftheLyondellEnterpriseandifyouwonacaseattrialforJoe,orfortheclient,youwouldgetaceremony,inHouston.OnceayearhehadallhisoutsidecounselcomeinandtheywoulddothisceremonywheretheywouldreadthisproclamationandgiveyouanExcalibur,makingyouaKnightoftheEnterprise.

So,onmywallhere,lookingatit,I’vegotthisExcaliburthatsays,“WepresentyouwithExcalibur,thelegendarysword,pulledfromastonebyArthurinrecognitionofyourbravedeeds,agratefulenterprisedoesbythisinstrumentandthesepresent,bestowuponAlanHoffmanthehonoredtitleofKnightoftheLyondellEnterpriseandshallhereafterbeknownasSirAlanDefenderoftheEast.JosephSpeelman,AssociateGeneralCounsel…”youknow,etc.

Thatmotivated,Ican’ttellyou,bigfirmlawyersfromalloverthecountry,whowouldbemotivated,“Didyougetasword?Doyouhaveasword?Doyouhaveasword?”Andalthoughwechargehourlyratesofhighamountsandprideourselvesonhavingclientshireus, you can’tbelievehowmotivating itwas tobeable to say, “Jeez, I need to get a sword,” and the competition inorder toreceiveone.

Thestorygoessofaras,thatIwasoneofourfinalcasesinvolvingthisproductweweresettling,amajorsettlement,inwhichthesettlementreachedupwardsof$450millionforourco-defendantsandIhadsaidtoJoethatweshouldnotsettleunlessweweregoingtopayanuisanceamountand itultimatelygot toanumberthat Joe toldmethathewantedmetopay insettlementandIpushedbackathimsaying,“Well, ifIdothatJoe,willIstillgetasword?”wasthemotivating…andhelaughedandweultimatelysettledthecase.So,that’smyclientstory,agreatclient.

Chris:IwouldhavetosayI’veneverheardastorylikethatandI’dalsohavetosaythatitwouldhavetobesoimpacting,asyoumentioned,toallthelitigatorsthatwerehiredaswellastheculturethathehadinhisfirm.Andyoustillhavethatswordinyouroffice?



Alan: I have the sword hanging inmy office, next to the proclamation,which is four pages,which is framed. The proclamationwrittenbyJoeandhispeopletalksabout,“Thesuddenattack,coordinatedwithsimultaneousassaultsfromcoasttocoast,createdgreat havoc anddamage to themost valuable enterprise commodity, aswell as to the reputation of the enterprise, but SirAlanHoffmanquickly createdanattackplan to retake thepost and join thebattle,” and it goesonandonandon, “Enterprise troopslandedonshores,establishedabeachheadwithHoffman’sinvaluablehelp,workingquicklyandquietly,hedraftedandprosecutedaplantoforceandearlyanddecisivebattleataplacecalledclasscertification.AndthisparticularswordonthisChris,waswhenwehadclasscertificationdefeated.

Chris:Now,youcanearnadditionalswords,isthatcorrect?

Alan:Correct.SoIearnedfour,butyougetaswordthefirsttimearound,andthenyougetaSirGalahadhorse,astatueofthatasyoursecondandthenyougetawhiteknightonahorseasyourthirdandtheystillowememyfourth.So,Idon’tknowwhatthefourthis.

Chris:Now,forgivemefornotknowing,aretheystillaclient,oraretheynotpracticing?

Alan:Nothey’restillaclient.JoeSpeelmanhassinceretiredandJesseCaplanisnow,whatwaschiefoflitigationandisnowgeneralcounsel.

Chris:Well,sucharenownedstory,it’sreallyimpacting.

Letmepositionyouaroundyourroleasmanagingpartneratthefirm,youhadsharedwithmetwothingsaboutyourcultureandstyleofleadershipandwhatyou’redoingwithsuccessionplanninganddiversity.Wouldyouspeaktothat?

DiversityinSuccessionPlanning

Alan:Sure.Ithinkthat,ifyou’releadinganorganization,you’vegottobeginplanningforwhoaregoingtobethesuccessorsandhowdoyoudevelopyoungleaders,andparticularlychallengediversityanddevelopingleaders.

So,wehavetwodepartments,litigationandbusiness,andwehave15practicegroupswithinthosedepartmentsandeachpracticegrouphasapracticegroupleaderandavicepracticegroupleaderandsomehavemorethanone.Therecouldbeco-practicegroupleaders, twovice leaders,etc.Andapolicyofminehasbeenthateverypracticegroup, if the leader isnotdiversegenderorracediverse,oranyqualitiesofdiversity,LGBT,etc., thenthevicepracticegroupleaderhastobeadiverselawyer,becausethat’stheway,Ithink,thatwegiveopportunitiestodiverselawyerstobeinleadershippositions,asopposedtojustbillinghours,bringinginclients,workingcasesandthenlet’ssee,attheseagesinthe30sand40s,who,havingreceivedthistrainingandthisopportunity,risesabovethat.

Therefore,ourtwodepartmentheadsaretwogentlementhatstartedoffaspracticegroupleaders,theybecamedepartmentheadswhentheywereintheirlate40s,they’renow51Ithink,orso,andthenbelowthemareyoungerleaders.

So it’s away inwhichwe’re trying to, as I said, develop, give opportunity to diverse attorneyswhowould not otherwise haveopportunitiestolead.


Alan:Andatthesametime,planforsuccession.

Chris:Yeahcritical, Imean,youdefinitelyhearaboutsuccessionplanning,butyouguysareevenastep further in intentionalityaboutbringingdiverseleadersin.Ithinkthat’sagreatexampleforfirmstofollow.

Alan,letmeaskyouaquestionaboutintegration.Iknowinthearticletoday,throughTheLegalIntelligencer,itspoketosomeofyour integrationplans.So,as faras Iunderstand it,when firmsacquire,whether it’s just straightuponesie lateral,orgroupsorentire firms, this integration plan has kind of been an insurance policy.What are you guys doing for integration that’s creatingstickinesswithyourpartners?

TheIntentionalityofIntegrationandLaterals

Alan:Inmyopinion,dealscanbe,Idon’twanttosaythey’reeasytodo,butthey’retheeasierpartof,longtermbecomingsuccessfulorfailures.So,youcandoadeal,thentherestnow,thehardworkbegins.Howdoweintegrate?Howdowegettoknoweachother?HowdothelawyerswhohavejoinedusknowwhatthecultureisofBlankRome,what’sexpected,howweoperate,howweoperatewitheachother,howwetreatother?So,howdowegoaboutmakingsurethatthedealsthatwehavedoneandthepeoplethatwehavebroughtin,feelreallygoodaboutbeingatBlankRomeandtheirstickinesstoit,thatwedon’tloselawyerstoourcompetition?

Ithinkthatoneofthethingsthatweprideourselveson,whetherit’sthroughourcompensationsystemorthroughtheintegrationefforts, youwill not findBlankRome lawyers at competing law firms around the country. Youwon’t find a BlankRome lawyerleavingBlankRometogotoanAmLaw50,AmLaw100firm.Theymaydecidetogoin-house,theymaygowithaclient,theymaygoandbecomeajudge,theymaystarttheirownpractice.Andpartofthatisreallyfocusingonmakingsurethatwehaveasystem,wehaveeverybodyfeelincluded.



So,wedospendalotofmoneyontravel,gettingaroundtoallthedifferentofficesandontheseintegrationefforts.Wehaveabuddysystemthatweestablishwithrespected,theDicksteinShapirotransaction,inwhicheveryDicksteinShapiropartnerhasapartneratBlankRomewhois“theirbuddy”andwhotheycanaskquestionstoandgettogetherwith.

So as part of any strategy of growth, if you don’t have an entire program set up of integration, then inmy opinion thatstrategyofgrowthisgoingtofail.

Sowedoalotinthatareaandtherearetransactionsthatwehavewalkedawayfrom,asrecentasthispastyearandattheendof2016goinginto2017,becausewedidnotfeelasthoughwe’veproperlyintegratedeverythingthatweneedtodowiththeDicksteintransaction,theWongCabellotransactionthatwasjustsixmonthsbeforetheDicksteintractionandthingssuchasthat.

Sotous,integrationispartandparcelofmakingsureadealissuccessfulandwedoalotwith.

GrowingHoustonwithIPFirmWongCabello

Chris: That’s excellent, so it’s not growth for growth’s sake, you guys are really caring for the people that are there. And youmentionedWongCabello,thatwasagroupofattorneysinHoustoncorrect?

Alan: Correct, a group, an intellectual property boutique in Houston of around 25 attorneyswho joined us, around sixmonthsbeforewedidtheDicksteintransaction.TheywouldhavejoinedusinJune/Julyof2015andweopenedinHoustonin2011with10lawyers fromasmallboutique litigation firm,calledAbrams,Scott&Bickley,we thenaddedeightmaritime lawyers to that, twoyearslaterandthentwoyearslater,25intellectualpropertylawyers.

AnotherpartofintegrationandoursuccessisBarryAbrams,whowastheleaderoftheAbrams,Scott&Bickleyfirmwhenwedidthatcombination,servesonourexecutivecommitteeofthelawform.SusanBickley,oneofthemainpartners,servesonourpartnerboard,servesonourdistribution,ourcompensationcommittee,shehasledourwomen’sforum.

So,wealso,whenpeople jointhe firm, there’sgreatopportunity tobeplaced in leadershippositionsandget toknoweverybodynationallyinthefirmasaresult.Soyoufeelasthoughyou’vebeenatBlankRomeforever,notthatsomebody’sjustwalkedinthedoor.

IcametoBlankRomein1992,asa lateral foranother largefirminPhiladelphiaandIwouldsay,evenpriortoourgrowthsince2011,evenpriortothattime,morethan50%ofthelawyersatBlankRomewerelaterals.Soweknowwhatitfeelsliketowalkinanewenvironment,newpartners,newcolleagues,whatdoesthatfeellike?Weknowwhattheemotionalpieceofthatisasmuchasthebusinesspiece.And therefore, I think thathas lent itself toour successwith integration,not justwith largegroupsbutwithindividuallateralswhojoinusaswell.

Chris:Icandefinitelyhearyourheartbehindthelateralprocess,whichisreallycritical.

What’sonetrendyou’rekeepinganeyeonasitrelatestoyourclientsinthefutureofthelegalindustry?

TheFutureoftheLegalIndustry:Pricing,PredictabilityandPartnership

Alan:Ithinkpricingisbecomingahugetrend.Youknow,manyyearsagoitusedtobetheclientswantedeverythingonafixed-feebasis.Anupfrontpayment,ifitwasacriminalcase,thingssuchasthat,everythingwaspredictability,fixed-fee.

Then,Iguessbecausealawyermayhavequotedafeeof$10,000foraparticularmatterinthe1940sandwasabletogetthematterresolvedinaveryshortperiodoftimeandtheclientsbegintofeelliketheywerebeingunfairlycharged,socamealongthebillablehourandnowIthinkwe’reseeingclientsagain,wantingpredictabilityandwantingfixed-fees,moresothanthebillablehour.

I’llgiveyouanexample,wewereoneofthefewindustriesintheworldthatdon’ttellaclientwhatamatterthatwe’rehandlingisultimatelygoingtocost,wetelltheclient,“we’lltellyouattheend.”

So,letmegiveyouanexample.Wewalkin,Chris,youandI,we’regoingtobuyacarandwegointothedealershipandthere’sthecarwewantandwewantthecartobeblack,it’sgottohaveabeigeinterior,it’sgotthesedifferentoptionsonitandthere’sastickerpriceonthecar,wenegotiate,thisiswhatwewant,andeveniftheyhavethatcar,wewalkoutwithitafterthenegotiation,ifnottheygoandfinditatanotherdealer,orit’sgoingtobebuilt.Butyouknowwhatyou’regoingtopayforthatcar.

Inour industry,aclientwalks inandsays,“Here’swhatIwant. Iwantablackthis, Iwantthistobebeige, Iwantthesedifferentoptions,”andwesay,“Chris,thankyouverymuch,wewillbeginbuildingthatandwhenwe’redone,we’llcallyouandletyouknowhowmuchitcost.”We’retheonlyindustrythatdoesthat.

Chris:Right.

Alan: You go to a dentist, you pay. You go to a doctor… So, I think that our industry needs to begin helping our clients withpredictability, helping the chief of litigationbe able to go to the chief financeofficer or theCEOand say, “Here’s howmuch thismatterisgoingtocostus.”

Samewithanacquisition,thegeneralcounselneedstogotheCEOandsay,“Here’showmuchthisacquisitionisgoingtocostus.”



AndI thinkclientsaregoingtobecomemore loyal to those lawfirmsthatareable tohavethatpredictability,butdo it inawaythat’salsoaccurate.

Forexample,itdoesn’tdomuchgoodformetosaytoaclient,thisisgoingtocost$500,000andtheclientsays,“Fine.”Thenattheend,afterall’ssaidanddone,wewereabletobringitinat$200,000.ThatgeneralcounselhastogototheCFOandsay,“Hey,wewere able to bring this in underbudget,webrought it in at 200 insteadof the500,” and there are someCFOs thatwill pat thegeneralcounselon thebackandsay, “That’sgreat,”andothers thatwill say, “Well,youdidn’tbudget for thiscorrectlybecause Icouldusethat$300atsomeR&Dprojectoverhere,orforthisotherdivisionoverthere.”

So,Ithinkit’snotjustthepredictability,keyIthinkisgettingitrightandhelpingourclientsbeabletohavecertaintyastheyplantheirbusinesses.So,Ithinkasourindustrygoestowardsthatitbecomesmoreofapartnershipwiththeclient.Itshouldnotbeanadverserelationship.We’repartners.IwanttomakemygeneralcounsellookgoodtohisorherCEOandwhatdoIhavetodoinordertoaccomplishthat,inthesameway,thatthegeneralcounsel,Ithink,wantstheirlawyerstobehappy?

Chris:ItmakessomuchsenseAlan,andIthinkthat’sextremelyinsightful.Itwouldbefascinatingtoseehow,andwhowillembracewhatyou’retalkingabout;pricing,predictabilityandpartnership.

WhatLeadershipAreRequiredGrowth?

Letmeaskyouanotherquestion,inyourjourneyasaleader,whichyouhadseveralleadershiproles,whatisoneareaofleadershipthatyouhadtogrowin,thatdidn’tcomenaturaltoyou?

Alan:Notfearingfailure.Ithinkthatweare…IknowthatI,formanyyears,wasriskaverse,don’tlikefailure,fearoffailure,whichIguesscanalsodriveyoutowardsuccess,butitcanalsoparalyzeyouinnottakingcertainrisksandIthinkifyoudon’ttakerisks,particularlywithchange,thatthatcanbecomereallyparalyzinginmovinganyorganizationforward.

Therearenumberofchangeswe’veputforthatourlawfirminrecentyears,manyofwhichI’veheardfromourpartners,“You’reruiningthecultureofthefirm.Ohmygod,you’reruiningthefirm.”

Now,itusedtobethatsecretarieswereonetoone,alawyerhadthesecretaryrightoutsidehisoffice.Wewenttoasystemsomeyearsback,fourtooneandassociatesareseventoone,withaparticular,whatwecall,associateresourcecenterthat’sservicesfirstandsecondyearassociates.

Sotheminutewewenttofourtoone, forthefirstmonth,I’mruiningthelawfirmandthecultureofthelawfirm.Threemonthslater,notawordissaidaboutit.Lawyersdon’tlikechange.

So I think theone thing I’ve learned is thatyoucan’t fearchange,youcan’t fear takingrisks,butyoualsohave torecognize thatwhenyouchangethings,therearegoingtobefailure,there’sgoingtobethingsthatwillbemessedupandthattherefore,youlearnandcorrectit.

Weareintheprocessnowoflookingatourcompensationsystem.We’veusedthesamecompensationsystemforatleastthelast35years,wellbeforemytimeatthefirmandI’mnotsurethatthatcompensationsystemstillmeasuresandvaluesthethingsthatourfirmwantstopromotetoday,whichmaybedifferentthanwhatitwas35yearsago.So,Ithinkweneedtotweakitinsomeways,andchange.

Well,we’renotgoingtogetitrightthefirsttime.Wewillchangeandwewillmakemistakesandwe’llgetfeedbackandwhatI’velearnedandtellpeopleis,wewillscrewthisup,ina,youknow,laughableway,Imeanwewillscrewthisup,butwe’lllearnfromthatscrewupandtwoyearsfromnowthingswillbefabulous,butyou’vegottobewilling,youcan’thavethefearthatthingsaregoingtogetscrewedup,paralyzeyourmovementforwardinchange.

So,Ithinkthatthebiggestthingforme,aslawyersdon’tlikechange,I’malawyer,IhatedchangeandI’vehadtoembracechangeassomethingthatIthinkreallydistinguisheslawfirmsfromotherlawfirmsanddistinguishesleaderswhoaresuccessfulfromthosewhoaren’t.

Chris:Yeah,verywellsaidandIappreciateyourheartfelt,genuineresponse.

Whatareyoupassionateabout?

Alan,outsideofmanagingBlankRome,andkindofgointoamorepersonalquestion,whatareyoupassionateabout?

Alan:I’mpassionateaboutmychildren.So,Ispendalotoftimewithfamily.Ihavegonethroughadivorcewhenmychildrenwerevery,veryyoungandmyfatherwasaholocaustsurvivor,abaker.Wouldgotoworkat4:00inthemorningandwouldcomehomeforbreakfast,let’ssay,andthengobacktothebakeryandthencomebackandtakeanapandthengobackandcomehomeat10o’clock at nightwhen he closed the bakery. So therewasn’t a lot of interactionwith family, he viewed himselfmuchmore as aprovider.

So,whenIbecameafatherIwantedtospendalotmoretimewithmychildrenandhavinggonethroughdivorceinwhichIwouldhavejointcustodyofmychildren,I’dbewiththemallthetime,ontheeveryotherweekendaspect,Iwentfrombeingpresidentofa



countryclubandplayinggolfall the time, tonotplayingatallbecauseonSaturdays, if Iwasn’tplayinggolf, I couldbecoachingsoftball,soccer,basketballandthereforeeveryweekendspendtimewithmychildren.

So,wehaveavery,verycloserelationship,they’renowallintheir,25to30rangeandsothat’sstillsomethingthatIwouldsayisapassionofmine.

Hero:BobbyKennedy

Chris:AnotherquestionandIguessonapersonal level is,whoareyourheroes?YoumentionedsomeoneandI’d loveforyoutoshareitinthequotethatcamewithit.

Alan:WhenIwasincollege,BobbyKennedywasrunningforpresident,andhewasobviouslyunfortunatelyassassinated,buthehad a thing that has really been something that’s been, along with all these others that I’ve given you, something I’ve alwaysrememberedandtrytoliveby,whichis,somemenseethingsastheyareandsay,why;Idreamthingsthatneverwereandask,whynot.

Ilookatdifferentthings,andwhenIgobackto,whenwetalkChrisaboutchange,IlookatdifferentthingsandIsay,“Okay,Iseehowtheyare,whynottrythis?Whynot?Whatdowehavetolose?”

So,thatphrase,alongwithdistinguishyourselffromthemasseswithProfessorCollins,arethetwothingsthatreallyhavedrivenmeovermany,manyyears.

Chris:Yes,Ireallyappreciate,Alan,justhowmuchheartyou’veputintoourinterviewtodayandIknowthat’showyouleadandyourpassionforyourdaughters.It’ssointegralforaleadership,wherepeoplekindofseeyoubyexample.

Ifyouweren’talawyerAlan,whatwouldyouhavelikedtodo?

Alan:Youknow,Ialwayswantedtobealawyer,sincethetimeIwaslike12or13.SowhatwouldIdo?Idon’thaveananswerforyouoffthetopofmyhead.

Chris:Yeah,that’sokay.

Alan:Maybeanairlinepilot.Iwouldlovetobeanairlinepilot.

Chris:Wouldyou?

Alan:Yeah.

Chris:That’sexcellent,wellyoucouldpickitupasahobby.

Alan:Exactly.

Chris:So,kindofinclosingandstealingthisquestionfromKaiRyssdalofMarketplace,infivewordsorless,whatisyourjob?

Alan:Fivewordsorless,whatismyjob?Iwouldsay,todistinguishourfirmfromthemasses.

Chris:That’sawesome.Let’sseehere,six,I’lltakeit,that’sexcellent.

Alan:Alright.

Chris:Alan,thankyousomuch,Ireallyappreciateyourtimeonthephone,it’sreallybeenapleasure.Yeah,thankyouforyourtime.

Alan:ThanksChris,goodtalkingtoyou.

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episode #7: alan hoffman of blank rome llp | march 10 2017 · transcribed audio in the show notes...

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