hainrih biolis fondSi 2009 wlis 20 maiss gamarTuli sajaro diskusia Temaze:

`homofobia: kerZo sivrcidan sajaro sivrcemde"

ZiriTadi momxseneblebi: eka aRdgomelaSvili _ qalTa iniciativebis mxardamWeri jgufi

paata sabelaSvili _ fondi `inkluzivi~

nodar sarjvelaZe _ fsiqologi, qristian-demokratiuli institutis xelmZRvaneli

moderacia: nino danelia

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nino leJava, hainrih biolis fondis samxreT kavkasiis regionaluri biuro

direqtoris moadgile, _ mogesalmebiT. didi madloba yvelas mobrZanebisaTvis. Tema, romlis gansaxilveladac dRes CvenTan mogiwvieT, aris `homofobia: kerZo sivrcidan sajaro sivrcemde~. moxaruli var, rom ase mravalricxovani msmeneli movida dRes CvenTan.

mogexsenebaT, homofobiis Tema sakmaod tabuirebuli Temaa. Cven pirvelad 2005 wels movaxerxeT am tabus cotaTi mainc garRveva, rodesac am Temaze fondSi pirveli diskusia CavatareT. maSindeli diskusiis Tema iyo “seqsualuri umciresobebi: tabu saqarTveloSi?~ am diskusiaSic da homofobiis Sesaxeb 2007 wels gamarTul meore diskusiaSic erT-erTi momxsenebeli gaxldaT eka aRdgomelaSvili, romelic dRevandeli diskusiisTvisac moviwvieT. pirveli diskusiisTvis Cven Zalian gagviWirda Tanamomxseneblebis mopoveba. maxsovs, rogor davdiodiT da vxumrobdiT, rom veZebdiT heteroseqsual mamakacs, romelic isaubrebda homoseqsualur Temebze. es gambedavi adamiani maSin aRmoCnda levan TarxniSvili, sociologi.

meore diskusia am Temaze Sedga ori wlis win, 16 maiss. am dRis Sesaxeb, albaT, momxseneblebi Tavadac isaubreben. es diskusia saTauriT “homofobia, rogorc socialuri problema” Sevida krebulSi “Careva sasurvelia: sajaro debatebi hainrih biolis fondSi”.

sajaro diskusiebi CvenTan 2004 wlidan imarTeba. maT samuSao saTaurad aqvs `diskusiebi saqarTvelos modernizaciis Sesaxeb~. sxva diskusiebs Soris, Tu ar CavTvliT konfliqtebis Temaze da religiisa da nacionalizmis Sesaxeb gamarTul diskusiebs, homofobiis Temaze gamarTul diskusiebs yovelTvis mwvave gamoxmaureba mohyveboda. rodesac simwvaveze vsaubrob, vgulisxmob da imedi maqvs, rom es diskusia aseve Sinaarsiani iqneba. minda yvelas SegaxsenoT, rom es diskusiebi garkveuli Temebis ara marto Sinaarsobriv ganxilvas gulisxmobs, aramed gvsurs, am tipis diskusiebiT davamkvidroT saqarTveloSi diskusiis kultura, rac garkveuli wesebis dacvas gulisxmobs. es aris moderirebuli diskusia, ase rom moderators – q-n nino danelias aqvs imis prerogativa, rom gansazRvros, Tu vin ramden xans isaubrebs. momxseneblebs, ra Tqma unda, eniWebaT ufro xangrZlivad saubris ufleba. yvelas gTxovT, gamoTqvaT sakuTari azri, Tumca gaiTvaliswinoT is, rom azris gamoTqmis msurveli yovelTvis Zalian bevria da droSi SezRudulebi varT. warmatebas gisurvebT da yuradRebisTvis madlobas mogaxsenebT.

nino danelia _ imedi maqvs, rom saintereso diskusia gvelodeba. es diskusia,

rogorc nino leJavam ukve aRniSna, eZRvneba konkretul dRes, 17 maiss, homofobiis winaaRmdeg brZolis saerTaSoriso dRes. am dRes msoflio jandacvis organizaciam amoiRo homoseqsualoba fsiqiuri daavadebebis siidan. gaeroSi mimarTvis Semdeg es dRe Semdeg gadaiqca saerTaSoriso dRed. yovelive amaze Cveni momxseneblebi ufro dawvrilebiT isaubreben. jer b-n paata sabelaSvils movusmenT, romelic fond `inkluzivs~ warmoadgens, Semdeg q-ni eka aRdgomelaSvili isaubrebs, romelic qalTa iniciativebis mxardamWeri jgufis direqtoria; Semdeg ki movusmenT b-n nodar sarjvelaZes, fsiqologs, qristian-demokratiuli institutis xelmZRvanels.

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paata sabelaSvili _ mogesalmebiT. didi madloba hainrih biolis fonds imisaTvis, rom es faqtobrivad, erTaderTi organizaciaa, romlis mizanic ar aris am Temaze principulad muSaoba da romelic gviTmobs Cven tribunas.

homofobiis winaaRmdeg brZolis saerTaSoriso dRe gaxda kalendarulad imis mizezi, rom Semdgariyo dRevandeli Sexvedra. Cveni mowinaaRmdegeebi xSirad gveubnebian - ra saWiroa am Temis sajarod ganxilva? maTi TqmiT, es Cveni piradi problemaa, unda viyoT CvenTvis saxlSi. maTive TqmiT, Cven aravin gviSlis xels, avtobusSic Tavisuflad avdivarT, arc samsaxuridan gvagdeben. Riad ar unda davenaxoT aravis, ar unda mivawodoT axalgazrdobas informacia Cvens Sesaxeb, – es saqarTveloSi ar SeiZleba. ar SeiZleba saubari erTsqesiani qorwinebis dakanonebazec ki, araTu partniorebis mier erToblivad Svilis ayvanaze da a.S. ar SeiZleba vimsaxuroT iseT struqturebSi, romlebzec damokidebulia qveynis usafrTxoeba, sazRvris dacva da a.S. diskusiis ganviTarebasTan erTad, qronologiuradac ase xdeba xolme, aris argumentirebis aseTi artikulireba, iwyeba piradi cxovrebis xelSeuxeblobidan da bolos mTavrdeba am pirad cxovrebaSi uxeSi CareviT ukve sajaro sivrceSi. faqtobrivad, saxelmwifo, sazogadoeba da eklesia “gviwveba loginSi”, da Semdeg, rodesac movakiTxavT Cvens uflebas sajaro sivrceSi, mkacrad gvewinaaRmdegeba amaSi.

1990 wlis 17 maiss msoflio jandacvis organizaciam homoseqsualoba amoiRo fsiqiuri daavadebebis siidan. es dRe ukve xuTi welia aRiniSneba, rogorc homofobiis winaaRmdeg brZolis saerTaSoriso dRe. wels am formulirebas daemata transfobiac, vinaidan xSirad, lesbosel, gei, biseqsual da transgender adamianebs erT jgufad moixsenieben, sazogadoeba ki araa informirebuli, rom lesboseli, gei da biseqsuali adamianebi sxva adamianebisgan orientaciis mxriv arian gansxvavebulebi, transgenderebi ki, genderuli identobis mxriv. amitom, wels ukve oficialurad, es dRe formulirdeba, rogorc homofobiisa da transfobiis winaaRmdeg brZolis saerTaSoriso dRe.

minda Sevexo saqarTvelos saxelmwifos pozicias am TemasTan dakavSirebiT. deklarirebis doneze saqarTvelos saxelmwifo cdilobs – am bolo periodSi mainc, – rom aSkara homofobiuroba Riad ar daadasturos, metic, Cveni sagareo politikis prioritetebidan gamomdinare, kargi imiji SeinarCunos dasavleT evropul da CrdiloeT amerikul organizaciebTan, struqturebTan da fondebTan. Tumca, es yvelaferi xSirad mxolod deklarirebis doneze xdeba da sulac ar niSnavs imas, rom saqarTvelos saxelmwifo raime qmediT nabijebs dgams qveyanaSi homofobiis aRmosafxvrelad.

gagacnobT im dokumentebs, romlebsac saqarTvelom moawera xeli. aman SesaZloa, gagakvirvoT kidec, imitom rom qveyanaSi amis msgavsi araferi SeiniSneba. daviwyeb sul axali dokumentiT, romelic 16 maiss, sul ramdenime dRis win gamoqveynda briuselSi. es aris CexeTis prezidentobiT, evrokavSiris saxeliT gakeTebuli gancxadeba, romelic gmobs homofobiis nebismier gamovlinebas. am deklaraciis xelmosawerad miiwvies ara marto evrokavSiris qveynebi, aramed is qveynebic, romlebTanac raime saxis TanamSromloba samomavlod moiazreba. Cvenda sasixarulod, im qveynebs Soris, romlebmac Tanxmoba ganacxades, am deklaracias mierTebodnen, iyo saqarTveloc.

cota xniT adre, gasuli wlis 18 dekembers, niu-iorkSi generaluri asambleis mTavari Tema iyo adamianis uflebebis sayovelTao deklaraciis 60 wlisTavi. evrokavSirma maSinac, safrangeTis TavmjdomareobiT gaakeTa amave Sinaarsis gancxadeba, oRond gaeros doneze es ufro rbilad xdeba xolme (vinaidan, gaeros 80-ze meti qveyana jer kidev axdens homoseqsualuri urTierTobis kriminalizacias.

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ganvmartav, es aris zrdasrul adamianebs Soris urTierTTanxmobiT Semdgari seqsualuri aqtebi) da gakeTda mowodeba msoflioSi homoseqsualobis universaluri dekriminalizaciisaken. saqarTvelom am gancxadebasac moawera xeli. minda aRvniSno, rom ruseTs da aSS-s misTvis xeli ar mouweriaT. buSis administracia cnobili iyo Tavisi homofobiurobiT. aSS am deklaracias mxolod TebervalSi, obamas administraciis mosvlis Semdeg SeuerTda.

saqarTveloSi homoseqsualobis dekriminalizacia moxda 2000 wlis 1 ivniss. manamde or zrdasrul mamakacs Soris nebayoflobiTi sqesobrivi kavSiri iTvleboda sisxlis samarTlis danaSaulad.

garda saxelmwifo poziciisa, aRsaniSnavia sazogadoebis damokidebulebac am sakiTxis mimarT. amas Zalian bevri winapiroba aqvs: patriarqaluri wyoba, genderuli Sovinizmi, tradiciuli ideologiebis gavlena da a.S. homofobia Zalian Rrmad aris gamjdari qarTul sazogadoebaSi. amas adasturebs Cvens mier Catarebuli kvlevebic, iseve rogorc sxva organizaciebis mier Catarebuli zogadi sazogadoebrivi azris gamokiTxvebi. homoseqsualebi yovelTvis lideroben im jgufebs Soris, romlis naxvac sazogadoebis Zalian did nawils mis gverdiT ar surs. amas emateba sxvadasxva organizaciebisa da jgufebis mxridan gamwvavebuli da politizirebuli homoseqsualobis Tema. saqarTvelos marTlmadidebluri eklesia, mas Semdeg rac Cven daviwyeT Riad da daufaravad moRvaweoba, axdens homoseqsualobis inkriminacias patriarqis mier gamoqveynebul saSobao da saaRdgomo epistoleebSi. garda amisa, sxva sazogadoebrivi jgufebic xSirad cdiloben am Temis gamoyenebas politikuri dapirispirebis dros, sakuTari oponentis diskreditaciisTvis. amis damadasturebeli mravali faqti arsebobs.

nino danelia _ kidev erTxel Sevecdebi, ganvmarto, ra aris homofobia. igi

aixseneba, rogorc iracionaluri SiSi da siZulvili lesboseli, gei, biseqsuali da transgenderi adamianebis mimarT, romelic efuZneba winaswarganwyobas da emsgavseba rasizms, qsenofobias da seqsizmis.

paata sabelaSvili _ imisaTvis, rom Cveni saxelmwifo deklarirebul

faseulobebTan SesabamisobaSi movides, qveyanaSi homofobiis daZlevisTvis, unda idgmebodes garkveuli nabijebi. amas xels uSlis Zalian bevri faqtori, Tundac sakanonmdeblo doneze. saqarTvelos ara aqvs integrirebuli antidiskriminaciuli kanonmdebloba. mxolod ramdenime dokumentSia naxsenebi homoseqsualoba, rogorc is statusi, romlis mixedviTac ar SeiZleba adamianis diskriminacia. saqarTvelos kanonmdebloba ar icnobs iseT mniSvnelovan koncefcias, romelsac hqvia `siZulviliT motivirebuli danaSauli~, an “siZulvilis ena”. garda amisa, sxvadasxva politikis formirebisas saqarTvelos mTavroba Segnebulad axdens gamoricxvas, gamotovebas seqsualuri orientaciis mxriv sakuTari Tanamoqalaqeebisa, magalitad ganaTlebis erovnul koncefciaSi da a.S., kidev bevr sxva RonisZiebaSi, romelic samoqalaqo integracias exeba. maSin, rodesac igi SedarebiT warmatebebs aRwevs sxva socialuri jgufebis inkluziaSi.

Cven unda SevexoT homofobiis erTi-or aSkara gamovlinebas, rom ufro naTeli iyos, dRes raze vsaubrobT. 2007 wlis ivlisSi gazeT `aliaSi~ daibeWda irakli mamalaZis statia, romelic exeboda evropis sabWos mier organizebul kampanias `yvela gansxvavebuli, yvela Tanaswori~. Jurnalistma warmoadgina damaxinjebuli informacia da aRniSna, rom sinamdvileSi es kampania SeniRbuli Tbilisis gei-praidi iyo, ise, rom mas aravisTvis ukiTxavs amis Sesaxeb. amas mediaSi didi aJiotaJi mohyva. ramdenime politikosi iqamdec mivida, rom homoseqsuali adamianebisTvis

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saarCevno uflebis CamorTmevas moiTxovda. es Cven imaSi dagvexmara, rom evrosabWo dagverwmunebina, rom homofobia aReniSna saqarTvelos Sesaxeb moxsenebaSi rogorc problema.

sul cota xnis win JurnalSi `cxeli Sokoladi~, gamoqveynda statia saxelwodebiT `arSemdgari diskusia~, romelSic monawileobdnen sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis sameurveo sabWos Tavmjdomare, aseve generaluri prodiuseri da sxva TanamSromlebi sazogadoebis sxva warmomadgenlebTan erTad. am moxsenebisas generalurma prodiuserma, b-nma giorgi Wanturiam homoseqsualebi moixsenia aramarTebuli leqsikiT, romelic pirdapir aris aRniSnuli sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis qcevis kodeqsSi, rogorc dauSvebeli. minda SegaxsenoT, rom sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis qcevis kodeqsi aris normatiuli aqti. Sesabamisi struqturebidan reagireba am faqts ar mohyolia. Cven davwereT saprotesto werili, magram pasuxis Rirsic ar gavxdiT. radgan es aris samarTaldarRveva, amitom CavrTe es saqme Cems moxsenebaSi. araTu reagireba ar moyolia, generalurma direqtorma – levan yubaneiSvilma – gaamarTla sakuTari TanamSromeli. Semdeg es gamarTleba werilobiT gaformda im mxriv, rom sazogadoebrivma mauwyebelma dawera sapasuxo statia, sadac gaamarTla generaluri prodiuseri da daadanaSaula `cxeli Sokoladi~ da yvela is adamiani, romelsac bunebrivi protesti gauCnda am faSisturi gamonaTqvamebis winaaRmdeg. citatas wagikiTxavT: `naxevarmilionian ltolvilian qveyanaSi sagulSematkivro meti aRaravin aRar dagvrCa?~

Cven gvaqvs konkretuli rekomendaciebi saqarTvelos xelisuflebis mimarT, romlebzec cota mogvianebiT, diskusiis gaxsnis Semdeg visaubreb. bolos davZen, rom xSirad gveubnebian, rom sazogadoebrivi mauwyebelia dRes mTavari problema, vinaidan eklesias aqvs Tavisi legitimuri ufleba gamoxatos Tavisi azri nebimier movlenasTan dakavSirebiT. isic minda SegaxsenoT, rom saqarTvelos moqalaqe lesbosel, gei, biseqsual da transgender gadasaxadis gadamxdelebs saqarTvelos eklesiis Senaxva orjer meti ujdeba, vidre saqarTvelos sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis. gmadlobT.

nino danelia _ iqneb gangvimartoT bolo winadadeba? paata sabelaSvili _ 12-milionnaxevari lari aris saqarTvelos

sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis biujeti, romelsac igi iRebs saxelmwifo biujetidan, romelic yvela Cvenganis mier gadaxdili gadasaxadebiT ivseba. saqarTvelos marTlmadidebel eklesias aqvs pirdapiri dafinanseba 25 milioni laris odenobiT dRevandeli biujetidan. sazogadoebriv mauwyebelTan SedarebiT orjer meti gvijdeba mTel mosaxleobas da maT Soris Cvenc.

nino danelia _ axla sityvas eka aRdgomelaSvils gadavcem. paatam ZiriTadad

isaubra imaze, Tu sad xdeba sajaro sivrceSi homoseqsualebis diskriminacia da kanonmdebloba ramdenad uwyobs amas xels.

ramdenadac vici, Tqven gaqvT mediis analizi, romelic am Temas Seexeba. swored mediaSi Cndeba xolme tendenciebi, romlebic Semdeg mTel sazogadoebaze vrcldeba. yvelam viciT, rom media mniSvnelovnad gansazRvravs sazogadoebriv azrs.

eka aRdgomelaSvili _ seqsualobis da konkretulad, seqsualuri orientaciis

reprezentirebis kvleva media saSulebebSi garkveul siZneleebTan aris dakavSirebuli, radgan gansxvavebiT rasis, sqesis, asakisa da a.S, saqme gvaqvs kulturuli identobis iseT formasTan, romelic naklebad xilvadia. Tu Tvals

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gadavavlebT Cvens warsuls, vnaxavT, rom sabWoTa kavSiris dros, totalitarizmis pirobebSi, araTu akraZaluli iyo homoseqsualobaze Riad da sajarod saubari mediaSi, aramed, homofobia politikuri ideologiis rangSic iyo ayvanili. mogexsenebaT, kriminalizebuli da dasjadi iyo mamakacebs Soris homoseqsualuri kavSirebi. sabWoTa periods Tu gavixsenebT, kulturis mier daSvebuli normatiuli seqsualobac ki tabuirebuli iyo im periodSi.

es Tema sajaro sivrceSi daxloebiT 90-iani wlebis Semdeg moxvda. kvlevac, Sesabamisad, am periodidan SegviZlia daviwyoT. nino leJavam Tqva, rom me mesamed miwevs biolis fondSi am Temisadmi miZRvnil diskusiaSi monawileoba. pirveli diskusia exeboda 90-iani wlebidan 2003 wlamde, `vardebis revoluciamdel~ periods, Tu rogor xdeboda am periodSi homoseqsualobis reprezentireba.

2006 wels, ukve fond `inkluzivis~ dakveTiT Catarda aseTi kvleva, ramac saSualeba mogvca, dagvenaxa tendenciebi da cvlilebebi. dRes swored am cvlilebebze minda gesaubroT; minda warmogidginoT 2007-2008 wlebis mediis analizi. im ZiriTad tendenciebze gavamaxvileb yuradRebas, romelic dReisTvis ikveTeba. 2006 wlis Semdeg Cven ukve mediis sistemur analizs vawarmoebT, rac saSualebas gvaZlevs, gavakeToT rogorc xarisxobrivi, ise Tvisobrivi analizi.

90-iani wlebidan moyolebuli, mTlian dinamikas Tu SevxedavT, rogorc wesi, homoseqsualobis Tema, ukavSirdeboda politikaSi Zalauflebis gadanawilebis procesebs. Tema mediisaTvis aqtualuri xdeboda swored im periodSi, rodesac garkveuli Zalebi iwyebdnen xelisuflebaSi mosvlas. ar vici, ramdenad gaxsovT, magram arCevnebis periodSi, 1999-2003 wlebSi Zalian aqtualuri iyo miTi `cisferTa SeTqmulebis~ Sesaxeb, romlebic xelisuflebaSi apirebdnen mosvlas. maSindeli presa saSinlad homofobiuri iyo - gajerebuli homofobiuri gamonaTqvamebiT rogorc xelisuflebis, ise maSindeli opoziciis mxridan. `vardebis revoluciis~ Semdeg es panika Cacxra. is saarCevno procesis dawyebasTan erTad kvlav agorda. arCevnebs Soris periodSi, SeiZleba iTqvas, sazogadoebriv-politikuri presis furclebidan Temam nel-nela `yviTeli presis~ furclebze gadainacvla. amasac Tavisi axsna aqvs. rogorc mogexsenebaT, socialuri, ekonomikuri da politikuri krizisis dros nebismier qveyanaSi Zlierdeba xolme qsenofobiuri tendenciebi. CvenTan ki 90-iani wlebis Semdeg mudmivad aris es krizisi, igi ubralod, mZafrdeba xolme arCevnebis moaxloebasTan erTad.

rac Seexeba wina wlebis kvlevis Sedegebs, ramdenime punqts gamovyof, raTa SevZloT axal tendenciebze saubari. 2005-06 wlebSi Catarebuli kvlevis Sedegebi SegiZliaT ixiloT fond `inkluzivis~ veb-gverdzec (www.inclusive-foundation.org).

vnaxoT, rogor konstruirdeboda homoseqsualoba qarTulenovan mediaSi: 1. sazogadoebriv-politikuri presisaTvis gadamwyveti mniSvneloba hqonda ara

homoseqsualobas, aramed `aratradiciuli~ seqsualobis sazogadoebriv problemad qcevis process. Sesabamisad, isini met adgils uTmobdnen zogadi xasiaTis saubrebs homoseqsualobaze mowveuli eqspertebis saSualebiT. mimarTavdnen diskursis monopolizebis praqtikas da naklebad aZlevdnen Sanss lgbt adamianebs Tavad moexdinaT sakuTari Tavis reprezentireba.

2. analitikuri xasiaTis publikaciebSi araheteroseqsualuri qceva ZiriTadad samedicino aspeqtSi ganixileboda.

3. ar xdeboda homofobiis, rogorc socialuri problemis identifikacia. 4. lgbt adamianebisaTvis TviTreprezentaciis saSualebas mxolod yviTeli

presa iZleoda, magram maTi respodentebis umetesoba negatiurad iyo warmoCenili. Sesabamisad, maT mier warmoCenili tipaJebi mxolod aZlierebda homoseqsualis uaryofiT xats.

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mniSvnelovani cvlilebebi, rac ukavSirdeba bolo ori wlis medias, is gaxlavT, rom wina wlebTan SedarebiT, mkveTrad gaizarda negatiur SefasebaTa procentuli maCvenebeli (65%-dan 86%-mde). Tumca, neitralur SefasebaTa Semcirebis xarjze gaCnda pozitiuri Sefasebebic (21%).

nino danelia _ vis mier keTdeba aseTi Sefasebebi, Tavad Jurnalistebis mier?

ras gulisxmobT negatiur SefasebebSi? eka aRdgomelaSvili _ uaryofiTi Sefasebis SemTxvevaSi homofobiis ZiriTadi

gamovlenis formebad miviCnevdiT: 1. homofobiuri teqstebis citirebas komentaris an saredaqcio SeniSvnis

gareSe, rodesac SeuZlebelia ganvasxvavoT respodentis teqsti Jurnalistis mosazrebsagan an redaqciis poziciisagan;

2. lgbt adamianebis damamcirebel konteqstSi moxsenieba (maT Soris dehumanizacia, deindividualizaciadamamcirebeli metsaxelebiT moxsenieba);

3. lgbt adamianebisagan mtris xatis Seqmna (magaliTad, adamianis diskreditaciis mizniT miTiTebebi mis kavSirze narkomaniasTan, qurdobasa da prostituciasTan; adamianebis arasrulfasovnebis mtkiceba moraluri, fsiqologiuri Tu sxva TvalsazrisiT; adamianebis dadanaSauleba sazogadoebaze negatiuri gavlenis moxdenaSi; maTi dadanaSauleba Zalauflebis borotad gamoyenebis mcdelobaSi, dominireba)

4. Sefaruli an pirdapiri mowodeba Zaladobisa da diskriminaciisaken (magaliTad, Zaladobisa da diskriminaciis istoriuli magaliTebis, homofobiuri poziciis ideologiuri, moraluri Tu sxva mizeziT gamarTleba, uSualo mowodebebi Zaladobisaken konkretuli pirebis miTiTebiT an zogadad, lgbt jgufis winaaRmdeg).

pozitiur SefasebebSi, lgbt adamianTa pozitiuri xatis Seqmnis garda, moviazrebT homofobiuri poziciis, Zaladobisa da diskriminaciisaken mowodebebis kritikasa da homofobiis socialur problemad Sefasebis faqtebsac.

pozitiur SefasebebSi, lgbt adamianTa pozitiuri xatis Seqmnis garda, moviazrebT homofobiuri tendenciebis kritikasa da mis socialur problemad Sefasebis faqtebsac.

Tu gaviTvaliswinebT wina kvlevis Sedegebs, neitralur SefasebaTa 88% Seadgenda ucxouri presidan gadmobeWdil informacias ucxoel Sou-biznesisa da sportis sferoSi moRvawe homo/bi/transseqsualebis Sesaxeb. am gziT xdeboda distancireba `gansxvavebuli~ seqsualobisagan, rogorc `dasavluri movlenisagan~. neitraluri xasiaTis publikaciebSi es tendencia dResac SenarCunebulia.

pozitiuri xasiaTis SefasebaTa mateba SesaZloa, ukavSirdebodes lgbt jgufis xilvadobis gazrdas, aseve gasaTvaliswinebelia is politikur da socio-kulturuli movlenebic, romlebic dRes qveyanaSi xdeba. sabWouri memkvidreoba da `tradiciul~ faseulobebTn dabrunebis mcdeloba mxolod qveyanaSi arsebuli politikuri krizisis saxiT ar iCens Tavs. faseulobaTa gadafaseba sakmaod mZimed mimdianreobs. SefasebaTa amgvari gadanawileba erTgvarad aireklavs swored amgvari krizisuli periodisaTvis damaxasiaTebel faseulobaTa da RirebulebaTa polarizaciis process.

meore mniSvnelovani movlena, romelic moxda, mediis homofobiis problemiT dainteresebaSi gamoixateba. zogadad, rogorc wesi, mediis yuradRebis centrSi diskriminirebuli jgufi eqceva, rac xels uwyobs jgufis stigmatizacias, rogorc msxverplisa. erTi SexedviT, rCeba STabeWdileba, rom es mxolod diskriminirebuli

8

jgufis an konkretuli adamianis problemaa da ara mTeli sazogadoebisa. sakmaod gvian daiwyes mecnierebma imis kvleva, Tu ra gavlenas axdens sazogadoebis umravlesobaze homofobia, rasizmi an seqsizmi. homofobia gavlenas axdens rogorc umciresobis, ise umravlesobis wevrebzec, rac SeiZleba, qcevaSic gamoixatebodes.

homofobiis kritika daiwyo qsenofobiis konteqstSi. Zalian mniSvnelovani iyo imis xazgasma, rom homofobia aris qsenofobiis iseTive gamovlineba, rogoric aris rasizmi da seqsizmi, rom maT erTi safuZveli aqvT. Tumca ki arsebobs gansxvavebac. magaliTad, rodesac mediaSi Suqdeba umciresobasTan dakavSirebuli sakiTxebi, Tu saqme exeba erovnul umciresobas, Jurnalisti cdilobs, rom metnaklebad dabalansebulad warmoaCinos situacia. homoseqsualobasTan dakavSirebul sakiTxebTan mimarTebaSi media cota sxvagvarad iqceva. magaliTad, aravis mouva azrad, rom situaciis dasabalanseblad SavkanianTa problemebze saubrisas “ku-kluqs-klans” sTxovos azris gamoTqma, an antisemitizmTan dakavSirebiT – neonacistur dajgufebas. CvenTan homoseqsualobaze saubrisas maSinve axsendebaT `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSiri~ da komentars sTxoven aseTi radikaluri mosazrebis jgufs.

rac Seexeba dagegmil aqcias, `yvela gansxvavebuli, yvela Tanaswori~, romelsac aseTi vnebaTaRelva mohyva, politikosTa da ara marto politikosTa aRSfoTeba gamoiwvia swored homofobiis qsenofobiis sxva formebTan erT planSi ganxilvam:

daTo zurabiSvili, saparlamento fraqcia `demokratiuli frontis~ Tavmjdomare: `Tu aseTi aRlumi gaimarTeba, albaT mis monawileebs scemen, policia, albaT, gaaSvelebs, magram erTi-ors Tavadac daamatebs. ramdenadac me vici, igegmeba seqsualuri, religiuri da eTnikuri umciresobebis erTiani aqcia, rac arasworad mimaCnia. me am umciresobebs erT sibrtyeSi ar ganvixilav. SeiZleba Zalian konservatorad CamTvaloT, magram CemTvis termini “seqsualuri umciresoba” Zalian miuRebelia~.

mamuka giorgaZe, `saxalxo partiis~ lideri: `geiaRlumis~ organizatorma organizaciam sibinZuris metnaklebad dasafarad Tvalis axvevis sakmaod ususur xerxs mimarTa da `interkulturuli~, `interreligiurobis~ terminis qveS, Zalauneburad, Tanamonawile gaxades religiuri da eTnikuri umciresobebi saqarTveloSi sodomuri codvis stimulireba-propagandisa~.

rogorc Tvisobrivma da diskursiulma analizma aCvena, Seicvala negatiur

SefasebaTa konteqstic. Tuki 1999-2003 wlebSi homoseqsualobis “problemad” qcevas met-naklebad racionaluri argumentebiT cdilobdnen (mag. arsebuli homofobiuri mosazrebebis gasamyareblad media mimarTavda misTvis sasurvel eqspertebsa da specialistebs), dRes “gansxvavebuli” seqsualobis problematizaciisaTvis sakmarisad miiCneva “SeuTavsebloba/ winaaRmdegoba qarTul da marTlmadideblur tradiciebTan”.

Tu moraluri panikis xelovnurad Seqmnaze vsaubrobT, avtomaturad Cndeba kiTxva Tu vis aZlevs xels am sakiTxis garSemo arajansaRi aJiotaJis Seqmna da situaciis apokalipturad warmoCena?

negatiuri Sefasebebis TvalsazrisiT kvlevisas gamoikveTa adresantebis sami ZiriTadi jgufi:

pirveli antrepeniori, romelic homofobiuri teqstebis gavrceleba/tiraJirebas axdens, yviTeli presaa da am mxriv, misi daintereseba am TemiTa da “saSineli mtris xatis” SeqmniT advili asaxsnelia, radgan maTi tiraJi uSualod ukavSirdeba maT arsebobas.

9

meore jgufs politikosebi Seadgenen, rasac Tavisi mizezebi aqvs: rogorc avniSneT, socialuri fobiebi, rogorc wesi, qveyanaSi arsebuli politikuri, ekonomikuri Tu socialuri krizisis periodSi Zlierdeba xolme, roca aucilebeli xdeba “xiluli mtris” xatis Seqmna (dRes amgvari “xiluli mtris xats” qveyanaSi mcxovrebi eTnikuri da religiuri umciresobebis garda homoseqsualebi da Cinelebic miematnen). amgvari fobiebis arseboba kargi niadagia sazogadoebrivi azriT manipulirebisaTvis da mas xSirad iyeneben rogorc politikuri brZolis iaraRs politikosebi;

mesame jgufs marTlmadidebluri eklesiisa da masTan arsebuli jgufebis wevrebi warmoadgenen. maTTvis mniSvnelovania simboluri dominirebis sakiTxi. rogorc wesi, socialuri jgufebi, romlebic dainteresebulni arian moraluri panikis SeqmniT, ekonomikuri da politikuri dainteresebis garda, miiswrafvian iqiTken, rom flobdnen simbolur Zalauflebasac, rac gamoixateba socialuri realobis sakuTar xedvaSi, situaciis sakuTar SefasebaSi, raTa yvelas Tavs moaxvion sakuTari azri da gazardon sakuTari jgufis gavlenis sfero. am jgufis pretenzia ZiriTadad “sajaro sivrcis codvisagan ganwmendas” ukavSirdeba.

aq pirvel rigSi sapatriarqos vgulisxmob. aris aseTi arasamTavrobo organizaciac, romelic sapatriarqosTan arsebobs, mas ewodeba “adamianis uflebaTa dacvis organizacia”. `me movedi geiaRlumis gamarTvis sawinaaRmdego aqciaze, radgan saqarTvelos mosaxleobis udidesi nawili marTlmadidebeli qristiania~, es sityvebi am organizaciis prezidents ekuTvnis. `SevniSnavT, rom bibliurad dagmobili aRniSnuli gaukuRmarTeba mxolod sulisaTvis ki ara, fizikuri arsebobisTvisac saxifaToa. amitomac homoseqsualizmTan brZolas mxolod religiuri aspeqti ar gaaCnia. sayuradReboa isic, rom amjerad sodomis codvis gamamarTlebelni cdiloben, TavianT gamosvlas politikuri xasiaTi SesZinon: isini eTno, religiur da seqsualur umciresobebs aerTianeben da zogadad, umciresobis saxeliT gamodian. ara gvgonia, am tipis `gaerTianebas~ miesalmon eTnikuri da religiuri umciresobebi.... es aqcia saqarTvelos strategiul interesebze SeiZleba cudad aisaxos, ramdenadac arc afxazeTs da arc samxreT oseTs saqarTveloSi gaerTianeba ar moundeba, Tu iq gei-aRlumebi gaimarTeba~ _ sruliad saqarTvelos adamianis uflebebis dacvis asociacia.

wina wlebTan SedarebiT ufro metad daintereseda am TemiT eleqtronuli media. amerikelma mecnierebma, romlebic sxvadasxva umciresobis reprezentirebas swavlobdnen, televiziis meSveobiT oTxi ZiriTadi qronologiuri stadia gamoyves: miCumaTeba, rodesac umciresobebi da maTTan dakavSirebuli Temebi saerTod ar xvdeba sajaro sivrceSi teleeTeris meSveobiT; dacinva, rodesac dominirebuli jgufi sakuTari imijis ukeT warmoCenas umciresobis jgufis warmomadgenelTa stereotipizaciisa da damcirebis xarjze axdens; regulireba (umciresobaTa warmomadgenelTa warmoCena xdeba mxolod pozitiurad. iqmneba warmatebuli adamianis dadebiTi imiji) da pativiscema, rodesac aRar xdeba apelireba gansxvavebulobaze, Cndeba pativiscema am adamianebis mimarT da maT warmoaCenen iseve, rogorc dominirebuli jgufis wevrebs. Tu am kriteriumebiT SevafasebT qarTul telesivrceSi homoseqsualTa reprezentirebis process, advili dasanaxia, rom am Temebze tabus moxsnis Semdeg, bolo aTi wlis manZilze saqarTveloSi telekompaniebi ver gascdnen meore etaps.

nino danelia _ didi madloba. axla b-n nodar sarjvelaZes movusminoT. b-no

nodar, ra tipis iracionalur SiSzea saubari, homofobiis SemTxvevaSi da aris Tu ara es iseTive problema umravlesobisTvis, rogorc umciresobisTvis.

10

nodar sarjvelaZe _ rodesac homofobiaze vsaubrobT, igulisxmeba adamianebi, romlebsac gansxvavebuli swrafvani aqvT seqsualur sferoSi da igulisxmeba maTdami da maTi qmedebebisadmi damokidebuleba, romelsac vuwodebT fobias, SiSs, da iTvleba, rom is iracionaluria. albaT, unda veZioT am iracionaluri SiSis Zirebi. marTlac arsebobs Tu ara es SiSi da aqvs Tu ara mas safuZveli. safuZveli yvela SiSs aqvs. SiSi aris biologiuri reaqcia, romelic efuZneba raRac safrTxes da is am TvalsazrisiT, sruliad mizanSewonili reaqciaa. sxva ambavia, rodesac SiSi gadadis fobiaSi, anu fiqsirdeba rogorc qronikuli mdgomareoba, da adamiani gadametebulad ufrTxis raimes, es sxva sakiTxia, magram TviTon mis safuZvelSi arsebuli realobis TvalsazrisiT, SiSs Tavisi mizanSewoniloba gaaCnia.

Tu SevecdebiT literaturis mouSvelieblad SevecadoT imis gaazrebas, Tu ras SeiZleba es SiSi efuZnebodes, pirveli aris is, rom SiSis iwvevs arabunebrioba. es aris SiSi imis mimarT, rac bunebis kanonebis winaaRmdegia. adamians, romelic Tavisi swrafvebiT umravlesobas miekuTvneba, miaCnia, rom seqsualuri swrafva bunebrivia, rodesac is aris qalsa da mamakacs Soris da romlis Sedegadac ibadeba axali arseba. seqsualoba ganixileba mis im nawilTan kavSirSi, romelic momavali Taobis warmoqmnas ukavSirdeba. adamianSi, marTalia, erotizmi gamravlebis instinqtisgan gamocalkevda im TvalsazrisiT, rom damoukidebeli swrafvis funqcia SeiZina, gansxvavebiT cxovelebisgan. orsqesovan mentalitets efuZneba warmodgena imis Sesaxeb, rom Tavdapirveli arseba iyo erTsqesovani, androgini, mere gaixliCa orad, da maT Soris aris bunebrivi swrafva, raTa am swrafvis niadagze warmoiqmnas mesame arseba.

qorwineba ganxilulia, rogorc ojaxis Seqmnis winapiroba. ojaxi yovelTvis samwevriania: mSoblebi da Svili. yvelafer amas, saR azrs ewinaaRmdegeba homoseqsualoba. is upirispirdeba adamianis swrafvas bunebriobisaken. Tavisi Zirebi SeiZleba mas antikur epoqaSic hqonda, magram es problema yvelaze mkafiod wamoiWra protestantizmis periodSi, rodesac CaTvales, rom adamiani mxolod RmerTis winaSea angariSvaldebuli. kalvinistebma isic ki Tqves, rom bediswera gardauvalia, da Sesabamisad, yvelafris gakeTeba SeuZliaT, imitom, rom am SemTxvevaSi, gardauvalia maTi seqsualuri orientaciac, radgan is dakavSirebulia bediswerasTan. Tu bediswera dakavSirebulia uzenaesis nebasTan, maSin adamiani Tavisufldeba pasuxismgeblobisgan, is mxolod ganmxorcielebelia da meti araferi. naxes, rom Tu Tavisufldebi eklesiuri gansazRvrulobidan, da Tu pirdapir xar angariSvaldebuli gangebasTan, maSin gaqvs ufleba, Seni Rirseba da ufleba sakuTari ZalebiT daicva da wardge RmerTis winaSe rogorc sakuTar TavSi dafuZnebuli TviTkmari arseba. da Tu TviTkmari var, es Cems orientaciasac exeba. es xazi Seicavs Tavis dilemas, progresi kargia, adamianis uflebebi kargia, swrafva diskriminaciis moxsnisaken kargia, magram es ratomRac upirispirdeba bunebriobas. iseve rogorc teqnologiuri progresi upirispirdeba ekologiur sisufTaves da arRvevs bunebis wonasworobas.

meore SiSi imiT aixsneba, rom adamians aqvs miswrafeba, rom daefuZnos Tavis Zirs. es Ziri xSirad aris ara mxolod biologiuri, aramed igulisxmeba tradiciebic, im TvalsazrisiT, rom es aris istoriuli memkvidreoba da istoriulad aris ganpirobebuli da ara, vTqvaT, genetikurad. istoriuli ganipirobebulobis TvalsazrisiT, adamians aqvs midrekileba, SeinarCunos da daicvas tradiciebi. yvelaferi is, ras amas upirispirdeba, iwvevs SiSs. Tu Cemi istoriuli tradicia dairRva, miCndeba SiSi, rom raRac memuqreba. es SiSi istoriuli mdgradobis dakargvas ukavSirdeba.

mesame axsna SeiZleba iyos is, rom arc erTi socialuri jgufi ar aris mSvidobiani. yvelas aqvs Tavisi agresiuli muxti. sicocxle, rogorc ki warmoiSoba,

11

iltvis eqspansiisaken, yovelTvis cdilobs gafarToebas da sivrcis amovsebas. nebismieri socialuri jgufi cdilobs Tavi ganavrcos. es swrafva axasiaTebs ara marto umravlesobas, aramed umciresobasac. mas zemoqmedebis Tavisi resursebi gaaCnia. umciresobis misia aris cvlilebis gamowveva. swored amis meoxebiT cdilobs umciresoba Tavis damkvidrebas. erTi mxriv aris cvlilebis gamowveva, meore mxriv TviTsegregacia, anu sakuTar TavSi Caketva da dapirispireba imiT, rom is ar aris iseTi, rogoric sxvaa. is Tavisi gansxvavebulobiT imkvidrebs sakuTar Tavs. Tu amas seqsualur planSi gadavitanT, da gaviTvaliswinebT imas, rom seqsi yovelTvis dakavSirebulia agresiulobasTan, gansakuTrebiT mamakacuri seqsi (nevrologiuradac, seqsualobis centri Tavis tvinSi axlos mdebareobs agresiulobis centrTan), gaupatiurebis, rogorc fenomenis arsebobac, metyvelebs imaze, rom agresiis muxti Cveulebriv seqsualobasac Tan axlavs. homoseqsualobasac axasiaTebs Tavisi agresiuloba. imitom, rom SeuZlebelia, moipovo partniori, Tu vinme ar acdune. seqsualuri partniori unda gaiCino. SeTavazebis dros, iseve rogorc mamakacsa da qals Soris flirtis dros xdeba SeTavazeba, cduneba, ayolieba, igivea aqac. es qmnis imis safuZvels, rom adamianebs eSiniaT homoseqsualTa mxridan agresiisa. miT umetes, Tu homoseqsualuri aqti cixeebSi an garkveul situaciebSi, dasjis saSualebad iTvleba.

nino danelia _ iqneb, ufro gamokveToT gansxvaveba homoseqsualur da

heteroseqsualur seqss Soris im TvalsazrisiT, rom SiSs mamakacis mier qalis gaupatiurebac iwvevs.

nodar sarjvelaZe _ gansxvaveba SeiZleba is iyos, rom seqsualuri

urTierTobebisadmi SiSi ufro qalisTvis aris damaxasiaTebeli, misi bunebidan modis. mamakaci, piriqiT, dakavSirebulia ara SiSTan, aramed SetevasTan. Seteva mamakacis seqsis nawilia. qali Tavisi bunebiT ufro TavdacviTia. mamakacs aqvs kastraciis SiSi; qalSi aris pretenzia, moipovos falosi. es aris gankacebis tendencia. qali dakavSirebulia SiSTan iracionalurad. man racionalurad icis, rom seqsSi araferi saSiSi ar aris, magram bavSvobidan esmis, rom es mtkivneulia da uyalibdeba iracionaluri SiSi. arsebobs virgoqorwinebis, – anu qalwulebrivi qorwinebis – uamravi faqti, rodesac qali wlebis ganmavlobaSi inarCunebs qalwulobas. magram es aris qalebisTvis damaxasiaTebeli SiSi. mamakaci ki, Tu mas utevs meore mamakaci, iZulebulia aRmoCndes qalis situaciaSi, risi survilic mas ar aqvs. amitom, mas uCndeba bunebrivi SiSi homoseqsualebis mimarT. am SiSs efuZneba siZulvili.

amis garda, aris sazogadoebis rRvevis SiSic. arsebobs SesaniSnavi wigni, `samasTa komiteti~, sadac naCvenebia msoflioSi mimdinare procesebis marTva elitaruli mmarTvelebis mier. albaT, gsmeniaT aldo moros skandaluri mkvlelobis Sesaxeb, 70-iani wlebis bolos. aldo moro1 gaxldaT italiis premier-ministri. is moitaces da awames. gamoZiebis Semdeg aRmoCnda, rom am ambavSi CarTulebi iyvnen “samasTa komitetis” wevrebi, romlebsac surdaT italiaSi SeemsubuqebinaT vatikanis zegavlena. maT davaleba hqondaT micemuli aldo morosTvis, rom aucileblad gaetarebina kanoni kontracepciisa da abortebis legalizaciisa da homoseqsualobis mfarvelobis Sesaxeb. aldo moro amis winaaRmdegi iyo da rogorc am wignSia moTxrobili, es gaxda misi mokvlis mizezi. anu, ara marto politikosebi iyeneben am Temas rogorc iaraRs, mowinaaRmdegis diskrimiaciisTvis, aramed piriqiTac xdeba,

1 23.09.1916-09.05.1978; qristian-demokrati politikosi 60-70-iani wlebis italiaSi, romelic “wiTel brigadebis” mier gatacebul da moklul iqna.

12

rodesac homoseqsualoba gamoiyeneba rogorc politikuri manipulaciis saSualeba garkveuli Zalebis xelSi.

nino danelia _ saqarTveloSi Tu dasavleTSi? nodar sarjvelaZe _ saerTod, mTel msoflioSi. gavixsenoT klintonis

periodSi homoseqsualebis manifestacia, meore arCevnebis dros. arc buSis administraciis uaryofiTi damokidebulebaa SemTxveviTi. es yvelaferi politikuri orTabrZolebis nawilia, homoseqsualoba garkveuli politikuri Zalebis mier iaraRad gamoiyeneba. gamodis, rom mesame mizezi, rasac efuZneba homofobia, aris is, rom ar dairRves socialuri mdgradi sistema. SeiZleba sxva faqtorebic arsebobdes. yovelive aqedan SeiZleba gavakeToT daskvna, rom cxadia, antihumanuria adamianis diskriminireba misi seqsualuri orientaciis gamo, magram imavdroulad, unda SevecadoT sxvanairadac SevxedoT am sakiTxs. unda SevecadoT gavigoT is SiSi, da misi safuZvlebi, rac aqvs homofobiis grZnobis matarebel subieqts, iqneba igi politikosi Tu rigiTi moqalaqe.

nino danelia _ gmadlobT. axla albaT ukve darbazsac SeuZlia CaerTos

diskusiaSi. Zalian saintereso sakiTxebi iyo ganxiluli. iyo saubari imaze, Tu rogor xdeba sakanonmdeblo sferoSi am sakiTxebze aqcentireba, ras akeTebs media, romelic didwilad gansazRvravs sazogadoebriv azrs, ramdenad legitimuria es iracionaluri SiSi.

vfiqrob, Zalian bevri kiTxva gaCndeba, gTxovT konkretuli kiTxvebi dasvaT da naklebi agresia gamoavlinoT romelime momxseneblis mimarT.

daviT arabiZe, ganaTlebis erovnuli kavSiri _ b-n paatas naTqvams minda

davubrunde. am Temis dekriminalizacia moxda 1992 wlis 11 agvistos aralegitimuri, ukanono, e.w. saxelmwifo sabWos mier. am sabWos eduard SevardnaZe Tavmjdomareobda. prezidiumis wevrebi iyvnen Tengiz sigua, jaba ioseliani da Tengiz kitovani. amazea saubari saxelmwifo sabWos uwyebanis me-2 tomSi. sainteresoa is, rom ori sakiTxi ganixileboda: saxelmwifo sabWos kontigentis Seyvana afxazeTSi da aRniSnuli statiis gauqmeba saqarTvelos sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsSi.

nino danelia _ Tqven ambobT, rom am Temis dekriminalizacia ar unda

momxdariyo? daviT arabiZe _ me mxolod imis Tqma minda, rom organom, romelic ar

warmoadgenda saqarTvelos respublikis mosaxleobis mier demokratiulad arCeul organos, miiRo es gadawyvetileba.

ana Tvauri, studenti _ xom ar SeiZleba homofobiis gamomwvevi mizezi iyos

arainformirebuloba an araswori informirebuloba am sakiTxze? Temur qoriZe, iuristi _ saqarTvelos realobaSi, rodesac adamianebs

SesaZloa, Sexeba ar hqondeT homoseqsualur garemosTan, maTi SiSi riT SeiZleba iyos gamowveuli? es mxolod sazogadoebisgan gariyvis SiSia Tu kidev sxva mizezebi aqvs mis warmoSobas?

13

nodar sarjvelaZe _ rac Seexeba arainformirebulobas, homofobia Tavisi arsiT iracionaluri SiSia. amitom ramdeni informaciac ar unda miiRos adamianma, es SiSi ki ar moexsneba, piriqiT, gauZlierdeba. informaciam am SiSs SeiZleba axali argumentebic ki gauCinos. Cven gvgonia, rom informacia yovlisSemZlea, magram sinamdvileSi ase ar aris. adamianis cxovrebaSi aranaklebi Ziri aqvs emocias. xandaxan mopovebuli codna emsaxureba im emociuri mdgomareobis ganmtkicebas, rac mas ukve aqvs.

rac Seexeba Tqvens SekiTxvas imis Sesaxeb, Tu piradad ar icnoben maT, ratom aqvT winaswar maT mimarT SiSi, aqac igive faqtori moqmedebs. Tu mas iracionaluri SiSi aqvs, miaCnia, rom homoseqsualTan kontaqtSi Sesvlis SemTxvevaSi, viRacis mier daiZraxeba. es SiSi erTdroulad aris individualuric da socialuric.

nino danelia _ umravlesobis tiraniaze SeiZleba laparaki? nodar sarjvelaZe _ Tu aviRebT umravlesobis da umciresobis funqcias

sazogadoebaSi, vnaxavT, rom umravlesobas aqvs normalizaciis, normebis SemuSavebis da maTi dacvis funqcia. amitom mas aqvs SiSi, rom mis mier an misi winaprebis mier SemuSavebuli normebi ar dairRves. amitom is yovelmxriv Seecdeba moarul azrs, saSualo adamisnis azrs gauwios angariSi. imitom rom saSualo adamiani warmomadgenelia im azrisa, rac normativi unda iyos sazogadoebaSi. aqedan gamomdinare, mas eSinia `TeTr yvavad~ ar gamoCndes, ar gamoCndes iseTad, romelic ,,Cveniani~ ar aris.

nino danelia _ Tu SeiZleba sakiTxis ase dasma, rom saqarTvelos

mosaxleobis umravlesoba icavs raRac normebs, maTi gadasinjva, eWvqveS dayeneba da axleburad gaazreba ki iyos qveynis Semdgomi ganviTarebis sawindari?

paata sabelaSvili _ am kiTxvaze eka gipasuxebT, me 1992 wels saxelmwifo

sabWos dadgenilebas gamovexmaurebi. es dadgenileba ver Secvlida sisxlis samarTlis kodeqss. es iuridiulad gamoricxulia. moxda de faqto moratoriumis daweseba am muxliT adamianebis gasamarTlebaze. 1992 wlis Semdeg homoseqsualuri kavSiris gamo aravin dauWeriaT, magram dekriminalizacia moxda 2000 wlis 1 ivniss, rodesac evrosabWos moTxovniT ZalaSi Sevida sisxlis samarTlis axali kodeqsi. rac Seexeba moratoriumis periods, kriminalizacia Tavis rols mainc TamaSobda, imitom, rom uSiSroebis samsaxurebi da a.S amas SantaJisTvis iyenebdnen.

nino danelia _ rodesac sazogadoebis umravlesobisa da umciresobis

urTierTobaze vsaubrobT, maxsendeba xolme vaJa-fSavela da Temi da pirovnebis damokidebulebis sakiTxi. aris Tu ara msgavsi problema Cvens SemTxvevaSi?

eka aRdgomelaSvili _ albaT aris msgavsebac da gansxvavebac. homofobiis

Temas davubrundebi. Zalian didi xnis ganmavlobaSi eZebdnen termins, romelsac unda aRewera es damokidebuleba seqsualuri umciresobebis mimarT. iyo terminebi `seqsualuri winaswarganwyoba~, `heteroseqsizmi~, magram sabolood `homofobiaze~ SeCerdnen. homofobia ufro individualur doneze ganixileboda, Tumca ki, dRes ra datvirTviTac ixmareba es termini, es ar aris fobia wminda fsiqologiuri TvalsazrisiT. xSir SemTxvevaSi es aris sakmaod gaazrebuli damokidebuleba sazogadoebis erTi nawilisa sazogadoebis meore nawilis mimarT. fobia SeiZleba

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mJRavndebodes individualur, da koleqtiur donezec da amis uamravi magaliTi gvaqvs.

b-nma nodarma brZana, rom homofobiis gamovlenis erT-erTi mizezi SeiZleba iyos adamianis survili, warmoCindes sxvaze ufro aRmatebulad. es SeiZleba iyos romelime socialuri jgufisadmi mikuTvnebulobis damtkiceba, magaliTad, binZurad ixumros im mizniT, rom garSemomyofTa mowoneba daimsaxuros.

rac Seexeba koleqtiur fobias, amaze did gavlenas axdens konkretuli qveynis tradiciebi, ideologia da religia. erT-erTi faqtori namdvilad aris seqsualuri ganaTleba, romlis donec CvenTan Zalian dabalia. es gaxlavT seqsualuri SfoTvis xarisxi kulturaSi. rodesac qveyanaSi zogadad seqsualobaa tabuirebuli da represirebuli, da Cven swored aseTi kultura gvaqvs. aseT SemTxvevaSi, Zalian Znelia, adamianma, romelic ver iRebs sakuTar seqsualobas, miiRos adamiani, romelsac aqvs homoseqsualuri orientacia.

nika wiklauri, fotografi _ b-no nodar, TqvenTan maqvs SekiTxva. Zalian

saintereso moxseneba gqondaT, magram ver dageTanxmebiT, imaSi, rom seqsualuri aqti Tu ara gamravlebis mizniT, cxovelebSi ar gvxvdeba. socialur ZuZumwovrebSi yovelTvis aris aseTi Zaladobis aqti, rogorc Tavis damkvidrebis saSualeba.

Tqven kavSiri gaavleT progressa da homoseqsualobas Soris. riTi aris ganpirobebuli homoseqsualobis ganviTareba, legitimacia saxelmwifoSi, sociumSi da ra kavSiri aqvs amas progresTan. Tu gavixsenebT Zvel elinur samyaros, vnaxavT, rom iq homoseqsualuri kavSirebi savsebiT legitimuri iyo. maSindeli elinuri samyaro marTlac iyo progresis maRal doneze.

meore SekiTxviT b-n paatas minda mivmarTo. mainteresebs, ra pozitiuri nabijebi idgmeba Tqveni organizaciis mier situaciis gamosasworeblad?

avTandil zumbaZe, `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSiri~ _ orientacias xom ver

dagvisaxelebT? paata sabelaSvili _ Tu me mekiTxebiT, me homoseqsuali var. avTandil zumbaZe _ Tqven isedac cnobili iyaviT. nodar sarjvelaZe _ Sevecdebi mokled vupasuxo Tqven SekiTxvas. nino danelia _ Zalian gTxovT, simSvide iyos. es ar aris adgili, sadac Cven

unda gamoviCinoT dabali sadiskusio kultura. didi madloba. nodar sarjvelaZe _ ratom gaiJRera progresis cnebam, progresis ideam

protestantizmis Semdgom epoqaSi...? progresi xSirad moiazreba ise, rodesac adamiani imaze mets akeTebs, vidre SeuZlia biologiurad. arc mobilur telefons, arc kompiuters bunebaSi analogi ar aqvs, is adamianis mier aris Seqmnili. ase viTardeba progresi. Sesabamisad, adamiani sul ufro gansxvisebuli xdeba bunebrivisagan, bunebisagan. Tu am TvalsazrisiT mivudgebiT seqsualobas, maSin, erotizmi, romelic dakavSirebulia seqsualobasTan, nel-nela wydeba Tavis biologiur safuZvels, rogoric aris gamravlebis biologiuri instinqti. is gamoeyofa, rogorc damoukidebeli ram, da xdeba kulturis an cxovrebis nawili da a.S. mTeli Janrebia literaturasa da xelovnebaSi erotizmisadmi miZRvnili. am kuTxiT, seqsualobis sxvadasxva formebi aris progresi im TvalsazrisiT, rom

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bunebrivisgan aris gancalkevebuli. magram es qmnis did problemas, iseve rogorc ekologiaSi. progresi ejaxeba bunebas da xdeba damangreveli. ase rom, SeiZleba bevri homoseqsualuri qorwinebis dakanonebas moiazrebdes rogorc kacobriobis safuZvelmdebare principebis damangrevlad.

avTandil zumbaZe _ marTalia. nodar sarjvelaZe _ es dilema gadauwyvetadia, me Tu mkiTxavT. avTandil zumbaZe, “marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSiri” _ Tavidanve cxadi iyo,

ra rakursiT warimarTeboda es Sexvedra. amaze saTauri `saqarTvelos modernizaciac~ metyvelebs. qalbatonma isaubra, gagvacno ras niSnavs homofobia, homoseqsualizmi.

konkretuli SekiTxva maqvs `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSirTan~ dakavSirebiT. aseve minda vilaparako homoseqsualizmis arsze da Tu SeiZleba, amisTvis ori-sami wuTi damiTmeT.

homoseqsualizms damangreveli zegavlena aqvs kacobriobaze, rameTu homoseqsualoba erTsqesian urTierTobas gulisxmobs da aq kvdeba yvelanairi gamravleba, risTvisac kacobrioba aris mowodebuli. urTierToba swored amisTvis aris.

momxseneblebis saubridan gamoikveTa, rom es yvelaferi dasavleTidan modis. batonma axsena, rom protestantuli mimdinareobidan, Tumca gacilebiT ufro Rrma fesvebi aqvs, Tundac antikur saberZneTSi, elinur kulturaSi. yvelaferi es emsaxureba adamianis xrwnas, rameTu dasavleTis politikaa adamianis gaxrwna da garyvna. garyvnili adamiani advilad samarTavia.

ai, SexedeT axla: Semdeg aqvs pretenzia adamians, rom sazRvris dacvis samsaxurSi ar ayeneben. sakuTari kacoba ver dagicvia da qveynis dacva vin unda mogandos? madloba RmerTs, rom ar gandoben amas da rom kidev arian aseTi Rirseuli adamianebi SerCenilebi am qveyanaSi.

ratom eCxireba yelSi yvela uzneo da eris mter organizacias `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSiri~? maT Soris fond `inkluzivs~, `21-e saukunes~, hainrih biolis fonds da sakmarisia me mgoni.

nino danelia _ didi madloba. _ Tqven ra poziciaSi brZandebiT? nino danelia _ me var poziciaSi, romelic moderacias uwevs dRevandel

diskusias. _ pasuxi rom gagvceT, SeiZleba? nino danelia _ ara, ar vapireb pasuxis gacemas. Tu SeiZleba, gvacadeT

diskusiis gagrZeleba. Tqven icodiT ra aris diskusiis Tema, da SegeZloT ar mobrZanebuliyaviT.

paata sabelaSvili _ mogaxsenebT Tqvens SekiTxvaze pasuxs. es iyo sandro

kakabaZe...

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_ me kiTxva q-n ekas davusvi. Tu SeiZleba, Seuracxyofad ar miiRoT. me TqvenTvis ar momimarTavs.

paata sabelaSvili _ CvenTvis ar aqvs mniSvneloba. Tu gindaT pasuxi miiRoT

SekiTxvaze, miiRebT, Tu ar gindaT, ar miiRebT. Tu gainteresebT, getyviT. 2006 wlis noemberSi gavida siuJeti `kurier-postskriptumSi~, romelic am

gadacemis Jurnalistma sandro kakabaZem moamzada. is ideaSi amzadebda siuJets Cvens mier gamocemul Jurnal `me~-ze, da komentarisTvis mivida `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSirTan~. rac mTavaria, respodenti meore mxridan Zalian daibna, imitom, rom ar icoda am Jurnalis arsebobis Sesaxeb. amitom, Jurnalistma, komentari rom Caewera, saubari waiyvana iqiT, Tu ra azris iqneboda respodenti, Tuki saqarTveloSi gaimarTeboda gei-praidi. manac Zalian mosalodnelad upasuxa, rom winaaRmdegi iqneboda. aq Cven `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSiris~ pozicias ki ar vakritikebdiT, Jurnalistebis damokidebulebaze vsaubrobT. am Jurnalistma miakiTxa `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSirs~, romelmac arc ki icoda am Jurnalis Sesaxeb da sakuTari nebiT gamosZala negatiuri pozicia sruliad ganyenebuli movlenis, gei-praidis Sesaxeb. Cven sxva rames vgulisxmobdiT, magram Tqven SeiZleba sxvanairad miiReT, radgan am organizaciis wevrebi xarT.

avTandil zumbaZe _ `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSiri~ ratom geCxirebaT

yelSi uzneo adamianebs? nino danelia _ Zalian gTxovT, pirad Seuracxyofaze nu gadaxvalT, Torem

aucilebad dagatovebinebT darbazs. eka aRdgomelaSvili _ modiT, Sefasebebisgan Tavi SevikavoT. Tu Tqven pasuxi

gainteresebT da ara is, rom ilanZRoT darbazSi, gagcemT pasuxs, Tu arada, sxvebis, nurc Cems dros, nu damaxarjinebT.

aq ramdenjerme gamoiTqva mosazreba homoseqsualobis “dasavlur” warmoSobaze. es axali idea ar aris. SemiZlia gavixseno sabWoTa kavSirSi rogor mzaddeboda ideologiuri niadagi mediaSi homoseqsualobis kriminalizaciisaTvis. es gaxldaT maqsim gorkis werili, romelic homoseqsualobas “dampali dasavluri burJuaziis nayofad naTlavda. komikuria, magram 60-ian wlebSi amerikaSi musirebda azri, rom homoseqsualoba iyo sabWoeTis propagandis muSaobis Sedegi amerikaSi.

Cven vsaubrobT damokidebulebaze, Torem, ra axsna SeiZleba moeZebnos imas, rom rodesac sazogadoebaSi darRveulia socialur jgufebs Soris Tanasworoba, sxva saqmea. dominirebuli jgufebi yovelTvis cdiloben axsna mouZebnon amgvar winaswarganwyobebs da damokidebulebebs. Zalian xSirad moismenT mosazrebas qalis SesaZleblobebze, rom qalis SesaZleblobebi CamorCeba mamakacis SesaZleblobebs, cdiloben seqsizmis gamarTlebasac da amisTvisac Zalian xSirad iSvelieben “mecnierul” argumentebs.

ramdenjerme axsenes saberZneTi da dasavluri kultura. seqsualuri orientacia, rogorc termini, gaCnda me-19 saukunis bolos. amitom, orientaciis TvalsazrisiT, ver vilaparakebT Zvel saberZneTze. arsebobda kulturebi, sadac iyo amgvari tipis seqsualuri qceva waxalisebuli. Tqven xom ver ityviT, rom spartis yvela moqalaqe homoseqsuali iyo? es iyo ubralod, seqsualuri qceva. dResac Zalian xSirad ureven erTmaneTSi seqsualur qcevasa da seqsualur orientacias. es sxvadasxva ram gaxlavT.

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jgufi, romelic Tqven warmoadgineT, me vaxsene gaazrebulad da SemiZlia gavimeoro, rogorc is iseTive radikaluri dajgufeba, rogoric aris neofaSisturi dajgufeba; Tundac Tqveni bolo sityvidan gamomdinare, iseTive, rogoric iyo “kuklusklani” amerikaSi, swored radikaluri moqmedebebis da jgufis mier gamoxatuli agresiis gamo. CemTvis naklebi mniSvneloba aqvs imas, es agresia Cemsken aris momarTuli Tu romelime socialuri jgufisken.

paata sabelaSvili _ SekiTxva dagvisves, Cven ras vakeTebT. Cven vmuSaobT

ramdenime doneze; upirveles yovlisa, es aris jgufTan muSaoba, imitom rom TviTon jgufi aris Zalian stigmatizebuli, marginalizebuli da Zalian dabali TviTSefasebis mqone; gamomdinare iqidan, ra stigmaSic aqcevs mas Cveni sazogadoeba. Cven gvaqvs fsiqologis ufaso konsultaciebi, jgufis wevrebs aseve vTavazobT ufaso iuridiul daxmarebas. garda amisa, vcdilobT informirebas. b-nma nodarma aRniSna rom informireba ar aris erTaderTi gamosavali. araerT ganaTlebul da Wkvian adamians vicnobT, romelsac rac ar unda bevri informacia miawodo, mimReoba mas mainc ar gauCndeba. amas Tavisi siRrmiseuli mizezebi gaaCnia.

sami weli xdeba, rac gamovcemT Jurnal `mes~. garda amisa, gvaqvs veb-saitic. Jurnali ufasod vrceldeba. gvaqvs sxvadasxva sainformacio RonisZiebebi, vavrcelebT pres-relizebs mniSvnelovan movlenebTan dakavSirebiT. Cveni sainformacio politikis erT-erTi nawilia Cveni aq yofna, raTa Tqveni informireba movaxdinoT. Tqveni gadasawyvetia, ras miiRebT, ras gaiTvaliswinebT da ras ara. garda amisa, gvaqvs saresurso centri im adamianebisTvis, romlebic dainteresebulni arian am sakiTxebis samecniero kvleviT. aseve vawarmoebT adamianis uflebebis darRvevis faqtebis aRricxvas, organizebas da Sesabamis reagirebas. samarTalwarmoebis donemde jer verc erTi saqme ver mivida iqidan gamomdinare, rom maT, visi uflebac dairRva, ar surT identobis gamJRavneba. magram Cven am informacias vagrovebT da Crdilovani angariSebis saxiT vawvdiT sxvadasxva organizacias da sxvadasxva tribunas.

nika wiklauri _ ra tipis organizaciazea laparaki? paata sabelaSvili _ ar aris didi organizacia, sul ramdenime adamiani

vmuSaobT, magram gvyavs partniori organizaciebi, romlebic mxarSi gvidganan adamianuri resursebiT, iuristebiT, fsiqologebiT, eqimebiT da a.S.

daviT gabunia _ b-n nodaris argumentebidan gamomdinare, gamovitane daskvna,

rom homofobiis arsebobis gamamarTlebeli ramdenime safuZveli arsebobs. erT-erT magaliTad dasaxelebuli iyo Zaladoba, gamovlenili mamakacsa da mamakacs Soris. ratomRac araferi ar xorcieldeba am tradiciuli institutebis mier Tundac, ojaxuri Zaladobis winaaRmdeg. Tu ar vcdebi, mxolod patrulis SemoRebis Semdeg gaxda SesaZlebeli ojaxuri Zaladobis SemTxvevaSi daereka cols an qmars. arc bavSvebze ganxorcielebul ZaladobasTan dakavSirebiT gamoiTqmeba protesti.

me mgonia, rom arainformirebulobis bralia is, rom seqsualuri orientaciis mqone adamianebs tragizmis kuTxiT, saSiS pirovnebebad aRiqvams qarTuli sazogadoeba.

mainteresebs, ratom iTvleba Tundac am organizaciis mier gasarTobi RonisZiebis, “helovinis” darbeva gamarTlebulad, da ori xelCakidebuli geis seirnoba TbilisSi Zaladobis aqtad? (xmauri darbazSi)

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nodar sarjvelaZe _ Cemi daniSnuleba dRes is iyo, rom homofobiis arsze mesaubra. me marto Zaladobaze ar milaparakia.

nino danelia _ Tu SeiZleba, mivceT b-n nodars pasuxis gacemis saSualeba.

darbazs vTxov, mSvidad iyos, imitom rom yvelas eZleva kiTxvis dasmis saSualeba. Zalian gTxovT, nu moviqceviT provokaciulad da davelodoT kiTxvaze pasuxs. gmadlobT.

nodar sarjvelaZe _ gainteresebT? me Sevecade mesaubra homofobiaze, anu am

fobiis arsze da CamovTvale bunebriobis dakargvis SiSi, sazogadoebis rRvevis SiSi, garda Zaladobisa. Zaladoba erT-erTi maTgani iyo. rac Seexeba Zaladobis formebis proporciebs da imas, rogori reagireba movaxdinoT, es sakiTxis sxva mxarea. geTanxmebiT, rom ojaxuri Zaladobac problematuria da bavSvebze Zaladobac. magram Cemi mizani ar yofila specialurad Zaladobaze saubari.

daviT gabunia _ Tqven ojaxis institutis darRvevazec isaubreT da TqviT,

rom aman SesaZloa demografiul problemamde migviyvanos. me mgoni, ufro met problemas qmnis ojaxuri Zaladoba ojaxebSi, vidre gei-qorwinebis Sedegad bavSvis ayvana.

_ ra Temebis provocirebas axdenT? Svili _ kata an ZaRli, ara? nodar sarjvelaZe _ aq kontrargumenti ra SeiZleba iyos? daviT gabunia _ SesaZloa demografiuli problemis gadawyvetis kerac iyos

Zaladoba. nodar sarjvelaZe _ uSvilo ojaxi – ojaxi ar aris. uSvilo ojaxi aris

qorwineba. ojaxi yovelTvis samwevrovania. nino danelia _ mogiwevT darbazis datoveba, Tu ar mogvcemT debatebis

mSvidad Catarebis saSualebas. Tqven axla ZaladobT mTel sazogadoebaze, maTze visac unda debatebis mosmena.

_ visze vZaladobT, biseqsualebze, homoseqsualebze Tu lesboselebze? nino danelia _ mapatieT me rom geubnebiT, Tqven Tavad unda xvdebodeT, rom

marTlmadidebloba pirvel rigSi aris moTmineba. aq arian adamianebi, visac undaT am Temaze debatebis mosmena.

paata sabelaSvili _ am organizaciis aqtivistebi xSirad isaxaven miznad

CaSalon da Sewyviton is sazogadoebrivi diskursi, romelsac Cven vikavebT. Cven ar vimyofebiT Tqveni organizaciis warmomadgenlobaSi. Cven vimyofebiT sxva organizaciis warmomadgenlobaSi, romelmac dagviTmo sajaro sivrce. Tqveni arCevania, isurvebT Tu ara am `uzneobaSi~ monawileobas.

nino danelia _ SegiZliaT ar miiRoT monawileoba da datovoT darbazi.

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paata sabelaSvili _ Tqveni piradi arCevania, SegiZliaT iyoT, an Tu gindaT, mibrZandiT. Zalian vTxovT yvelas, diskusiaSi ar Sevidnen am organizaciis aqtivistebTan, vinaidan es swored imisTvis aris gamiznuli, rom Cven rac SeiZleba naklebi salaparako dro mogveces.

giorgi lasuraSvili, `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSiri~ _ mainteresebs, am

adamianebTan erTad ratom ar moiwvieT samedicino muSaki, romelic auxsnida am adamianebs, ra dadebiTi mxare aqvs, Tu aqvs am problemas, da ra _ uaryofiTi, rogorc sulierad, ise xorcielad, rogorc fsiqologiurad, ise adamianuri fizikuri problemis mxriv.

b-nma nodarma Zalian kargad Camoayaliba, kmayofili var, is, rom aq aris winaaRmdegoba bunebriobasa da arabunebriobas Soris da daaskvna, rom es yvelaferi urtyams kacobriobis fesvebs, anu, iwvevs kacobriobis gadagvarebas. aqdan gamomdinare Cndeba SekiTxvebi. pirveli: rodesac vsaubrobT imaze, rom es saqarTveloSi ar unda iyos, rom amas giSlian, rom eklesia sawolSi giwvebaT..

paata sabelaSvili _ es metafora iyo da gageba sWirdeba. giorgi lasuraSvili _ amisTvis saTanadod unda CamoayaliboT. eklesia ar

aris Tqveni xelwamosakravi da Tu koreqtulobisken sxvas mouwodebT, pirvel rigSi Tavad unda iyoT koreqtulebi. es gaiTvaliswineT, meored aseTi Secdoma ar dauSvaT.

Tqven xelovnurad qmniT am problemas, rom damcirebulad igrZnoT Tavi. sinamdvileSi Tqveni `mamebi~ dasavleTidan xels giwyoben rom wamowioT win es mavne da bodiSs vixdi, uzneo orientacia da tradiciuli azrovnebis adamianebi, romlebic Seadgenen mosaxleobis umravlesobas, da am tradiciebiT modis Cveni qveyana, saukunea, am tradiciebs CvenTvis problema arasodes ar Seuqmnia. b-nma nodarmac brZana, ori sxvadasxva pirovnebis urTierTmizidviT xdeba gamravleba. da saukuneebis dasawyisSi homoseqsualebi rom yofiliyvnen, riTi gamravldebodnen?

nino danelia _ didi madloba. giorgi lasuraSvili _ q-ns minda davusva SekiTxva. me gamaRizianes da

gamanerviules aq Sekrebilma pirebma. Tqven, qalbatono, rodesac sxvis oxvraze laparakobT, da sxvisgan ar mogwonT SeniSvnebi, ratom moixseniebT ase `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSirs~, rom visac ar moswons Tqveni orientacia, garbian `marTlmadidebel mSobelTa kavSirSi~? citirebas vaxden Tqveni sityvebis. ra SuaSia gaqceva? adamiani, romelsac awuxebs Tavisi tradiciebi, awuxebs im adamianis sve-bedi, romelic acda gzas, daRupvisken midis da sxvasac ubiZgebs daRupvisken, es aris uzneobis da gadagvarebis gza, rogorc b-nma nodarmac Tqva. Tqveni SefasebiT ki, Tu vinmem ar dagicvaT, is aris radikali, fanatikosi da a.S. didi madloba.

paata sabelaSvili _ am problemis xelovnurobas xazi esmeva darbazSi,

ramdenad xelovnurad aris igi warmodgenili Cvens sazogadoebaSi. rac Seexeba imas, rom aqamde amas saqarTveloSi problema arasodes ar Seuqmnia, da es dasavleTidan Semovida, aris tyuili. TviTon saeklesio teqstebSic dasturdeba..

_ problemis wamoweva. paata sabelaSvili _ iqneb momisminoT.

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giorgi lasuraSvili _ saqarTveloSi da yvelgan, es problema iyo,

geTanxmebiT, magram.. paata sabelaSvili _ amaze gpasuxobT swored. 1103 wlis ruis-urbnisis

saeklesio krebis ZiriTadi Tema, sxvaTa Soris, iyo homoseqsualobis problemac. es dRes ar damdgara qarTuli eklesiis dRis wesrigSi.

vasil kobaxiZe, `kavkasiuri saxli~ _ sekularul sazogadoebaSi yvelas aqvs

ufleba, Tavisi protesti da Sexeduleba daafiqsiros, maT Soris, eklesias, marTlmadidebel eklesiasac. axlaxans obama gamovida indianas universitetSi da amas saprotesto manifestaciebi mohyva. amerika, – albaT, yvelaze religiuri qveyana, – axerxebs dabalansebas. erTi mxriv, konservatoruli pozicia aqvs protestantul eklesiebs, baptistebs, evangelur eklesiebs, magram iq ar aris diskriminacia. yovel SemTxvevaSi, am filmSi, `harvi milqSi~2 es ar Cans, garda religiuri umravlesobis damokidebulebisa.

Tqven rom axseneT manifestacia, romelic ramdenime wlis win unda gamarTuliyo da aRar gaimarTa, da romelSic yvela umciresobas unda mieRo monawileoba, gamodis, rom demokratizacia damokidebulia TviTon sazogadoebis gaJRenTilobasTan religiur-nacionaluri ideologiiT. am mxriv, gamodis, rom ruseTi ufro demokratiuli qveyanaa. 2006 wlidan iq es msvlelobebi imarTeba, masSi cnobili adamianebi, momRerlebic monawileoben; marTalia cemen, magram vin cems maT? religiur-eqstremistuli jgufebi, faSistebi da bolo periodSi daiwyes komunistebmac, policiamac, magram yovel SemTxvevaSi, imarTeba. aq es mcdeloba gancxadda da Semdeg ukan daixies. mainteresebs, es ratom moxda, ra SiSi gaCnda. me vfiqrob, rom es umciresobebis, ginda religiuris da eTnikuris Sekreba ki ar unda yofiliyo, aramed, es unda yofiliyo manifestacia adamianis uflebebisaTvis. SeiZleba marto am Temaze, homoseqsualTa diskriminaciis winaaRmdeg, da unda moewviaT yvela adamiani, visac amis survili eqneboda, orientaciis da kanis feris miuxedavad. Tu iqneba aseTi manifestacia, me miviReb masSi monawileobas.

_ es yvelaferi wamovida protestantizmidan, anu RmerTisgan gandgomidan.

kaci, romelic RmerTs uRalatebs, is yvelaferze wamsvlelia. nino danelia _ modiT, Cven nu visaubrebT imaze, vin vis uRalata. nuravis nu

ganvsjiT. es Zalian didi mkrexelobaa. batonebo, Zalian gTxovT... _ ai, Tqveni organizebuli Sexvedra da Tqveni mowveuli stumrebi. _ Cven, rogorc rigiTi damswreebi, mogiwodebT am Sexvedris organizatorebs,

rom es uzneo adamianebi gaaZevoT Sexvedridan, biseqsualebi, TavianTi vai-advokatebiT.

2 saubaria amerikeli reJisoris gas van sentis filmis – “milqis” (“Milk”) – Sesaxeb, romelic gviCvenebs amerikeli politokosis da gei aqtivistis harvi milqis (22.05.1930-27.11.1978) cxovrebis ambavs.

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nino danelia _ Zalian gTxovT, datoveT darbazi. Tu ar mogwonT, monawileobas nu miiRebT, nu gaxdebiT uzneobis nawili da datoveT darbazi.

nino leJava _ dabrZzandiT Tqven adgilebze, an datoveT darbazi. es aris

hainrih biolis fondi, sadac Tqven mosulebi xarT diskusiiTvis. zogi adamiani umciresobaSia, zogi _ umravlesobaSi. ra tipis umciresobaa, es

CemTvis ar aris mniSvnelovani. me am fonds warmovadgen aq imisTvis, rom yvela adamians hqondes azris gamoTqmis Tavisufleba.

_ Tqveni Tavi warmogvidgineT. nino leJava _ me gaxlavarT nino leJava, programebis koordinatori. yvelas

gTxovT, daicaviT simSvide. ase moqceva ar SeiZleba. Tu aq mobrZandiT diskusiisTvis da sxva miznebi ar gamoZravebT, gTxovT, dabrZandeT da rogorc Tqvenma kolegebma da megobrebmac ukve ramdenjerme mogiwodes, daicaviT simSvide. aseve vTxov b-n vasil kobaxiZes, daicaviT simSvide. ramdenime axalgazrdam, romelsac sxva azri gaaCnda, datova darbazi – imitom, rom agresiuli iyo. yvelas davatovebinebT darbazs, vinc ase moiqceva.

Tu Tqven es diskusia ar mogwonT da uzneobad migaCniaT, es Tqveni Tavisufali arCevania, SegiZliaT gabrZandeT aqedan. Tqven aravis ar uuZulebixarT, aravis piradad aq ar mouwvevixarT, da Tu aq mobrZandiT, unda daicvaT garkveuli wesebi. SevTanxmdiT. gmadlobT.

nino danelia _ es aris yvelaze didi problema, gansxvavebuli azris mosmena.

Cven xSirad gadavdivarT aseT radikalur, ara saWiro pirad Seuracxyofaze. da mTavari sakiTxi, romelsac sWirdeba argumentirebuli diskusia, gvisxlteba xelidan. mogveciT saSualeba, am Temaze mSvidad vimsjeloT. Tqven bevrjer mogeciT sityva, moqmedebis saSualebac mogecaT, amitom Zalian gTxovT, axla nu SeecdebiT diskusiis CaSlas. Tu uzneobad migaCniaT da ar gindaT, SegiZliaT datovoT darbazi.

daviT arabiZe _ me SemTxveviT ar vaxsene 1992 wlis 11 agvisto. Tu

vsaubrobT demokratiaze, maSin unda vifiqroT, rom am qveyanaSi aris eri, romelsac gaaCnia Tavis faseulobaTa sistema, anu ideologia. is, rasac Tqven gvTavazobT, ideologiaa. rasakvirvelia, dRes SeiZleba mas ar gvTavazobT foladis xmliT. magram ra gansxvavebaa im qmedebaSi, romelic jalaledinma Caidina, rodesac cdilobda garkveuli ideologia xmliT moexvia CvenTvis, da Tqvens qmedebaSi.

dRes Tqveni ideologia Tavs maxvevs imas, rom Turme ojaxi aris daxuruli saaqcio sazogadoeba, romelic iqmneba mxolod erToblivi qonebis samarTavad. es, rasakvirvelia, warmoSobs Cvengan winaaRmdegobis gawevis survils. miuxedavad imisa, rom Cveni organizacia saero da profkavSiruli tipis organizaciaa, minda icodeT, rom CvenTvis legitimurad arsebuli saSualebebiT ideologiuri barikadis im mxares davdgebiT, romlis Tanaxmadac Tqveni qmedeba aRiqmeba rogorc murvan yrus da jalaledinis qmedeba. minda, TqvenTvis naTeli iyos, rom es ar aris mxolod politikuri radikalebis da eqstremistebis pozicia. es aris im adamianebis pozicia, romlebic dganan im RirebulebaTa sistemaze, romelsac mravalsaukunovani pozicia gaaCnia.

Tqven ikiTxeT, ratom ar unda imsaxuron SeiaraRebul ZalebSi am orientaciis adamianebma. magaliad, satanko ekipaJSi aris tradiciuli orientaciis adamiani da aris ori aratradiciuli orientaciis adamiani. am adamianebma sabrZolo operaciis

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Sesrulebis dros mterze unda ifiqron Tu imaze, rom SeiZleba seqsualuri interesis sagani gaxdes?

paata sabelaSvili _ b-no daviT, erTi SekiTxva maqvs TqvenTan. Tqvens

organizaciaSi Tu gyavT qali TanamSromlebi? samsaxureobrivi movaleobis Sesrulebis dros seqsualuri devna Tu ,,домогание'' dauSvebelia nebismieri sqesis adamianebs Soris. ratom fiqrobT, Tu ori adamiani erTad zis tankSi, es aucileblad ase unda damTavrdes?

aseT pirobebSi diskusiaSi monawileobas azri ara aqvs. ver gavagrZeleb ase saubars.

nodar sarjvelaZe _ es isev im bunebrivi SiSis gamoxatulebaa, rac aqvT

adamianebs. paata sabelaSvili _ ratom amarTlebT amas b-no nodar? nodar sarjvelaZe _ me arafers ar vamarTleb, ubralod, vambob, rom SiSs

arsebobis ufleba aqvs. paata sabelaSvili _ b-no nodar, SegiZliaT miTxraT, ratom ver SeZlebT

Tqveni gvaris gamravlebis, me Tu homoseqsuali viqnebi? ratom gadawyviteT, rom homoseqsual adamians ar SeiZleba hyavdes bavSvi? saidan mogaqvT aseTi argumentebi? Tqven ggoniaT, rom Tqvens garSemo dafarulad ar cxovroben homoseqsuali adamianebi, romlebsac uwevT qorwinebaSi yofna, sxva mamakacebTan sqesobrivi kavSiris damyareba da Svilebis yola, miuxedavad yvelafrisa? am iluziiT cxovrobT?

_ mainteresebs, sul homoseqsualebi da lesboselebi rom iyvnen dedamiwaze,

bavSvebi saidan gaCndebian? mainteresebs, ra iqneba dedamiwaze amis Semdeg? eka aRdgomelaSvili _ aseT SemTxvevaSi, es iqneboda norma, es xumrobiT. rac

Seexeba raodenobas, xSirad argumentad iyeneben imas, rom rodesac homoseqsualobaze xmamaRla saubroben, es iTvleba propagandad. zust ricxvs, romel qveyanaSi ramdeni homoseqsualia, ver dagisaxelebT verc erTi mecnieri. savaraudod, kvlevebidan gamomdinare, es aris qveynis mosaxleobis 3-dan 7%-mde.

homoseqsualoba ar aris SeZenili. is ar SeiZleba gadagedos. nino leJava _ gTxovT, SewyvitoT videogadaReba. es ar aris satelevizio

formati. Cven amaze SevTanxmdiT TqvenTan diskusiis dawyebamde. _ ratom unda davxuroT diskusia oficialurad? nino beqiSvili, `cxeli Sokoladi~ _ Tqveni ra saqmea, Cemi seqsualuri

orientacia? Tu maincdamainc, heteroseqsuali var. _ Tqven ara marto heteroseqsuali, uzrdeli heteroseqsuali yofilxarT. (darbazSi xangrgZlivi ayalmayalis Semdeg “marTlmadidebel mSobelTa

kavSiris” wevrebs daatovebines Senoba.)

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nino danelia _ Cven am aTemaze saubrisas gvindoda kontrargumentebis mosmena da ara am Zaladobis momswre vyofiliyaviT. did bodiSs gixdiT momxdarisTvis, aqve didi madlobac minda gadagixadoT imisTvis, rom gamoiCineT simSvide da dapirispireba kidev ufro radikalur formebSi ar gadaizarda.

paata sabelaSvili _ b-n nodaris moxsenebas minda Sevxebodi. Cven ar mogveca

imis saSualeba, rom Cveni diskusia gadagvetana adamianis uflebebis dacvis WrilSi. minda aRvniSno, rom Cven mxolod qorwinebaze vsaubrobdiT da ara ojaxze. Cveni organizacia ar moiTxovs saqarTveloSi erTsqesiani qorwinebis dakanonebas am etapze. ubralod, me gangimartavT, ras emyareba xolme aseTi qorwinebis moTxovna. ratom ar gvesmis es moTxovna? imitom rom Cven jer heteronormatiul konteqstSic ar gvaqvs qorwineba srulebiT gacnobierebuli, Tavisi uflebrivi meqanizmebiT da SedegebiT.

saqarTvelos konteqstSi, rogorc wesi, qorwineba ar aRiqmeba uflebebisa da movaleobis samoqalaqo gaformebad. ratom iTxoven dasavleli lgbt aqtivistebi erTsqesiani qorwinebis dakanonebas? iseT SemTxvevaSi, roca qveyanaSi ar arsebobs sxva registrirebuli partnioroba, aRiarebuli saxelmwifos mxriv, mxolod qorwineba SeiZleba gaxdes rigi uflebebis warmoSobis saSualeba, romlebic sxva SemTxvevaSi ver warmoiqmneba. mxolod registrirebul partniors aqvs ufleba xangrZliv paemanze imyofebodes sasjelaRsrulebis dawesebulebaSi, aseve saavadmyofoSi, garkveuli daavadebis simwvavis dros, memkvidreobis miRebis da a.S.

im SemTxvevaSi, rodesac qal da mamakac partniorebs aqvT saxelmwifosgan miRebuli ufleba, daaregistriron TavianTi partnioroba da amiT moipovon is uflebebi, rac dauregistrireblad ar eqnebodaT, da rodesac erTi sqesis partniorebsac surT daaregistriron TavianTi uflebebi igive kanoniT, da maT amis alternatiuli saSualeba ar eZlevaT, amas diskriminacia hqvia. adamiani ar SeiZleba iyos nawilobriv Tanaswori. Tanasworoba aris absoluturi kategoria da ver iqnebi ufro metad an naklebad Tanaswori.

da davamateb, homoseqsualoba ar aris daavadeba, es gadawyvetili ambavia, mogvwons Tu ara, es Cvenze ar aris damokidebuli. Cven ar vambobT iseT rames, rac ukve gadawyvetili ar aris da razec ar aris msoflios civilizebuli nawili SeTanxmebuli. amis miRma Cven ar gavdivarT. Cveni muSaobis principi aris adamianis uflebebi. yvelaze mniSvnelovani faseulobaa adamianis uflebaTa kanonis uzenaesoba.

Sorena gabunia, xelovnebaTmcodne, hainrih biolis fondis stipendianti _

Tqven isaubreT homofobiis gare faqtorebze. me erT sakiTxze minda yuradReba gavamaxvilo. bolo periodSi Sexeba mqonda am TemasTan, Tu rogor aRiqvams Tbilisis gei sazogadoeba Signidan homofobias. aris aseTi gamoTqma, Tu ginda gaigo, vin aris yvelaze didi homoseqsuali, daakvirdi, vin akeTebs yvelaze xmamaRal homofobiur gancxadebebs.

homoseqsualebisgan gamigia, rom maT homofobia saerTod ar awuxebT. maTgan isic gamigia, rom eTanxmebian aseT ganwyobas. imitom, rom aRizianebT maneruli geebi, adamianebi, romlebic Tavian qamin-auTs am formiT akeTeben, yvelafriT, CacmiTac da verbaluradac afiqsireben TavianT seqsualur orientacias. da maT aseT manerul adamianebTan ufro meti konfliqti aqvT, vidre homofobiurad ganwyobil adamianebTan. Cemi azriT, es tradiciuli patriarqaluri fesvebidan mowyvetis SiSia.

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eka aRdgomelaSvili _ imas, razec Tqven saubrobT, uwodeben internalizebul homofobias. sxvaTa Soris, sakuTari orientaciiT hipertrofirebuli siamayec SeiZleba iyos sazogadoebis zewolis Sedegi.

rac Seexeba manerulobas, aq genderul normebTan gvaqvs saqme. esec aris konkretuli kulturebisTvis damaxasiaTebeli. magaliTad, dasavleTSi, geipopulaciaSi ufro naklebad aris maneruloba SesamCnevi mamakacebSi da qalebi ufro manerulebi arian. CvenTan sxvanairad aris. es konkretul subkulturazea damokidebuli.

is, rom homoseqsuali mamakaci aucileblad maneruli unda iyos, gavrcelebuli stereotipia, rac simarTles ar Seesabameba. sinamdvileSi, maTi umetesoba aris Caketili mamakacuri, mkveTrad maskulinuri sazogadoeba. ase rom, es gavrcelebuli stereotipia.

paata sabelaSvili _ maneruli geebis qamin-auTi maTi arCevani ar aris. amitom

xdeba am stereotipis gaZliereba, rom maincdamainc maneruli unda iyos gei. sxvadasxva qveyanaSi Catarebuli kvlevebis mixedviT, geebis mxolod 10-dan 15%-mdea maneruli. igive SeiZleba iTqvas heteropopulaciazec, ubralod, Zalian bevri heteroseqsuali vici, romelic gei hgoniaT, mxolod imitom, rom maskulinobis maTi aRqma ar Seesabameba mis TviTgamoxatvas.

ina inariZe, qalTa iniciativebis mxardamWeri jgufi _ didi madloba imisTvis,

rom gagrZelda diskusia. SekiTxva maqvs b-n nodarTan: Tqven TqviT, rom bunebrivia, rom ar unda iCagrebodnen adamianebi, magram es unda gavigoT. mainteresebs, igive gansazRvreba exeba Tu ara, magaliTad, erovnuli umciresobis warmomadgenlebs? gamosavali ra SeiZleba iyos?

nodar sarjvelaZe _ Cemi azriT, erT qvabSi Cayra yvelanairi umciresobis,

erTgvari gatacebaa demokratiuli institutebis, romelic eyrdnoba raRac sabazo daSvebas. am sabazo daSvebis mixedviT, Tu aris umciresoba, is aucileblad iCagreba, mas Cagravs umravlesoba. es iseTive winaswarganwyobaa, rogorc, magaliTad, rasizmi. gansakuTrebiT xSirad aseTi damokidebuleba aqvT saerTaSoriso organizaciebs. sinamdvileSi, es yovelTvis ase ar aris. piriqiT, xandaxan umciresoba sakmaod agresiulia da utevs umravlesobas. rogorc wesi, umciresoba axdens revoluciebs. umciresoba yovelTvis ar aris daCagruli. piriqiT, xandaxan umciresoba aris mCagvreli. Tumca, diskriminaciebi, rogorc eTnikuri, ise seqsualuri, arsebobs. magram eseni absoluturad gansxvavebuli Temebia. magaliTad, segregacia arsebobs eTnikuri umciresobis dros, magram ar arsebobs seqsualuri umciresobis dros. ginaxavT Tqven mxolod homoseqsualebiT dasaxlebuli teritoria?

eka aRdgomelaSvili _ arsebobs, getoebi. getoebi gadataniTi mniSvnelobiT. nodar sarjvelaZe _ yovel SemTxvevaSi, es erTeuli SemTxvevebia. me imis Tqma

minda, rom gaigiveba eTnikuri umciresobis Tematikisa da problemebisa, seqsualuri umciresobis sakiTxebTan me arasworad mimaCnia. maT mxolod is akavSirebT, rom umciresobani arian. diskriminaciis wesebi da meqanizmebic sxvadasxvaa da mizezebic. imaSi geTanxmebiT, rom rodesac adamianis uflebebis dacviTi RonisZiebebi tardeba, iq unda iyos situaciis gaTanabreba.

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paata sabelaSvili _ adamianis uflebebis dacva an daucveloba aris erTi konkretuli faqti da ara aqvs mniSvneloba, romel umciresobas miekuTvneba adamiani. am niadagze Tu irRveva misi ufleba, es aris aRmosafxvreli, amazea laparaki.

nodar sarjvelaZe _ Zalian mniSvnelovania identobis problema; is, Tu

konkretuli adamiani vis miakuTvnebs sakuTar Tavs. TviToeuli CvenTagani mravali identurobis matareblebi varT. es aris profesiuli, nacionaluri, subkulturuli da sxva identobebi. problema is aris, roca adamians ukrZalaven identobis qonas, roca misi identoba aris ara aRiarebis, aramed raRac iseTi, rac ar unda iqnas aRiarebuli. es aerTianebs umciresobebs, Torem sxva mxriv, gansxvavebuli Tematikaa.

paata sabelaSvili _ absoluturad geTanxmebiT. Cemi seqsualuri identoba ar

unda daiyvanebodes masis SiSebze da viRacis problemebze. nodar sarjvelaZe _ bunebrivia, umravlesobam unda gaigos da scnos

umciresobis identobis ufleba, magram seqsualurma umciresobamac unda gaigos im SiSis safuZveli, rac adamians SeiZleba hqondes mis mimarT. me gamarTlebaze ar vlaparakob.

nino danelia _ didi madloba. kidev erTxel gibodiSebT im emociuri

vnebaTaRelvisTvis. didi madloba mobrZanebisTvis.