house of representatives seventy-seventh geneml assembly … · 2007. 2. 27. · hon. w. robert...
TRANSCRIPT
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
SEVENTY-SEVENTH GENEM L ASSEMBLY
ONE HUNDRED FIFTY-SEVENTH LEGISLATIVE DAy
JUNE 26, 1972*
1:00 0'cLOcK P.M .
THE HONORABLE W. ROBERT BLAIR#
'SPEAKER IN THE CHAIR
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A roll call for attendance was taken and indicated that
al1 were present with the exception of the Y'ollowing:11 ' - no reason given;Representative John H . Cono y
Representative J. Horace Gardner - death;
Representative Thomas R. Houde no reason given;
Representative Henry Klosak - illness;
Repre'sentative Elmo Mcclain - deE.th;
'Representativo Michael H. McDermott - illness;
Representative William A. Redmond no reason given;
Representative Allen L. Schceberlein - no reason given;
Repre'sentative Edward J. Shaw - death;
Representative John W. Thompson no reason givep;
Representative James R. Washburn - nö reason given;
Representative Genoa S. Washington - illness;
Representative Gale Williams illness.
2*% j , .>: r : . . G E N (;. I y A j. A s s E M I 1 t. Y:7 ky::' .7: 't! ); : .j ' ; 4t. . . sx gq v u o re l u u I 14 o l s6. : =. ' .
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Doorkeeper: ''Al1 those who are not entitled to the floor, woul
you please retire to the Gallery?''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''The House Will be in order. The invcca ion
this afternoon will be by Dr. Johnson.''
Dr. John Johnsonz ''We pray. Remind us Oh Lord, this day and
during this week, that inspite of the vastness of your Uni erse
you are still and remain our G'od and our Redeemer. Let ou'
)communications with one another this day and this week call
forti the best of the human spirit which knows that men mu t
be bound together in understanding, in sensiti/ity to huma
needs, in the search for that truth the shreds of which ar
usually found in individual pursuit. Remind ùs that as we
voice our own feelings and convictions we can remain eager
to absorb ihe communication of the colleague, and understa d
his intensions as well. Teach us that if we are to remain'
k as moral agents and keep our innerpersonal, we must as( ) t: (r j k:
speech tuned into each OG er. Above all grant courage and
openess ih your power, so that by your will we may accompl sh
that will and it may be done in and by us this day. Amen.'
Hon. W . Robert Blair:' ''Roll call for attendançe. Gentleman fr m
cook, Mr. Graham.''
Elwood Graham: ''Mr. Speaker, will you let the records show tha
Representative Genoa Washington is absent due to illness.''
Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''The records will so indicate. The ah..
gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde.''
Henry J. Hyde: ''Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House,
you will recall sometime back, Senate bills that were in
' 'k'''' '' .. colftmittoe and ak. zeqe î,n 't-ljtj . g. T.a gkcjpr were tabled . And we,J . . ..r?o r 1:. t: A ,. ; .. . , k :i' ' ' r r.h . J vs os , uu, ,u o,sI ; j. )4. .-, t ) svs'.% , t.) '?. . ' . sj o w sc o g. 1: c e I.4 c s c rq 'r a 'r l u csn't-bz-z''' ' ' --
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have a list that has been agreed to between the Republiean
and the Democratic leadezship of bills that I will shortlymove to be restcred to the calendar Lh...I want to announc ,
however, that the rest of the membbrs may have bill that
are not on this list, and they will be at liberty to seek
recognition and make a motion to have them restored to the
calendar ah...in the appropr iate place. So if you would p y
attention ah...these lists have been distributed and ah...
however to clarify the kecord, I will read the bills and t e
position that they will assume on the calendar ah...if the
motion that I wi.ll present, passes. And so, Mr. Speaker,
now move that the following bills be placed back on the
Calendar in the following positions; Senate Bills ko be
placed on third reading 485, I believe the next number, I
really can't make a3....858, 859, 1056, 1130, 1269, 128.3,
1385, 1386, and 1387. Now Senake Bills to be placed on
the calendar for second reading; 857,.1126, 1127: 1157, 12 9,
1318, 13é2. 1380, 1392, 1409, 1420, 1422. 1424, 1428, 1431
1446: 1447, 1448, 1450, 1455, 1456, 1458, 1460, 1461, 1471
1485, 1501, 1529, 1530, 1534, 1557. 1574 in addition on se ond
'reading Senate Bflls 1436, Senate Bill 1590, Senate Bill
1413, 1494, 1532, and 1561. Al1 of the later on aecond re ding.
now move ah...that these bills be placed on the ealendar
as indicated.'ê
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from Union, Mr. Choateo''
Clyàe Choate: ''T'm just looking at my list, Mr. Speaker, to
see that this checked out as far as we were concerned andT
'JF13*745 s might say thaùz s xr jjiatj-wajs srjsk kFjjIy.:C/ Uanding on Senate Billsq'k c-p j. z: ; t . ?: ,6 . , qj' ) h . 4' o ' r &4, y ) sv w.r Is o s I u u 1 sl o I sî .i ' s.. '. . .y .'. . :1 o kl s 1$ o F 11 r': e 14 E f; E': N r A T I v E s4zlj)..j kbot
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third re'ading that included on that list, Representative
Hyde, was 1279, 1471, 1557, now, I would suggest that on
' those three bills, and then there was two, four, six bills
on second reading, whieh has just been added that we hold 'off on those three on third reading and six on second read ng
until the speaker and I have an opportunity to look at the .
Mr. Speaker, its my understanding tht we will add three bifls
to the order of third reading. I will not question the
six bills that was added because after all we can always
sit down and talk abouk them, and Ygree on them. And then
there's two bills on first reading that was suppose to be
added that was not sir. 1409 and 1574.,'
Hon. WJ Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from cook Mr. Hyde.''#
Henry J. Hyde: ''Mr. Speaker, I'lk amend my motion ah-.opursua t
to the minority leaders remarks and add ah..oto the list
for the bills to be placed on Senate Bills third reading,
Senate Bill 1279, 1471, 1557. And then Mr. Speaker, add
on first reading aho.esenate Bills 1409, 1574.1...A
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from cook, Mr. Richard Walsh ''
R. A. Walsh: ''Will the gentleman yield for a question?''
Henry J. Hyde: ''Yes Sir.''#
R. A. Walsh: ''Ah.eHenry, there were two bills: and I don't ha e
list in front of me Se'nate Bills 1524 and 1525 B ththat , , .
of which were heard in the House Revenue Committee. And
don't know if they....I guess they were tabled along wi h
al1 those other bills, I'.m just wcndering, don't think
they should have been in the first place, but apparently*
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Henry J. Hyde: ''No Sir. There was no agreement reached on tho e
two .billsa''
R. A. Walsh: 'lWelle then I wonder, Henry, what aha-.if maybe y u
might describe what the procedureb going to be. Because
these two bills are revenue bills and really shouldn't hav
been tabled in the first place, and ah.o.-apparently leade -
ship. has agreed on the bills you just enumerated.'.1Henry J. Hyde: ''Thatds right. An individual member may rise,
seek recognition and move that they be returned .n
R. A. Walsh: ''We11, can you tell me what the procedure is goin
to be for granting recognition. . . -to individuals who are i
the same boat and.e-that a1l these other people are in?''
Henry J. Hyde: ''I'm...I'm sure thdt everyone who seeks reeogni ion
at this point, will be granted recognition and may make th
motion.''
R. A. Walsh: ''go now is the time. .. . . ''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: HWell, the thought was that we'd get thi
cleared up and then we'd go to those individual motions. Y s.
Gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate, what was the question?''
Clyde L. Choate: ''No, Mr. Speaker, I'm in agreement..-.in agre -
ment as far as the list is concerned. ' I would suggest, as
you just stated. 'that we hold the individual motions off
until a later time, when other members will go through the
same thing ah...Representative Walsh, and'then dispense
with that order of business all at one setting.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentlemàn from cook, Mr. Hyde.''
. Henry J. Hyde: ''Mr. Speaker, it has been suggested that onee
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their individual motions for 15 minutes. I will then move
for a 'conference, and we will go down to 212, ah..- Republscan
members, and have a minute conference. Then we will
return to the floor and the first Qrder of business will b
the individual motions. So, once my motion is adopted I
will then move for a 15 minute recess-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, is there discussion with regar
to the gentleman's motion c'oncerning these agreed Senate b'lls
to be restored ah..- as requested in the motion? If not,
then a11 those in favor-...better have a roll call. All
those in favor of the motion will vote 'aye', and the oppo ed
'no '. Now this takes the same requirement as took to t le
these bills to start with, and that is a simple majority.
Gentleman from Christian, Mr. Tkpsword.''Rolland F. Tipsword: ''Mr. Spekker, I'm voting 'aye' on this .. . # .
. motion of these bills in general. I wonder if I might be '
recorded as present on two billsa''
Hon. Robert Blair: ''Certainlytn
Rolland G. Tipsword: ''The bills that I'd like to be recorded as
present on are; Senate Bill 1157 and Senate Bill 1557 plea e.''#
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright. Have al1 voted who wished?
Gentleman from ah-..Kane, Mr. Hi11, asked for the same requ st
ah.a.eon voting present, and as does the gentleman from Bur au,
Mr. Barry. On the same two bills. Barry and Hill. Have a l
voted who. wished? Clerk will take the record. On this
question there are 139 'ayes' no 'nays'. And the gentlema 's. #
motion to take those bills enumerated from the table prevai s.
'- '- - '''''- '''urjrz JA ' i And they wi 11 be jsaljejj xojy Tsos %%,
tltïjodi'ro On the Order indicatedh -....w% : G .<) . .. k: 'y sa j) L 1 t ' ST AYE o F I L.L I 11 o 1 ss' . . ! .k . k J 'r. ' p1 o u s c o s a cp r4 cs c :4 a' A. w 1 v csx . 2 .
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% de ''on tomorrow calendar. Gentleman from cook, Mr. Hy .
Henry J. l'Iyde : N ell. Mr . Speaker , I now lnove that the I'Iouse
stand in recess foc a period of 15 minutes, for purposes o
a Republican conference: and would ask that a1l Republican
immediately go to room 2l2 so we can conclude our business
and return. I so move, Mr. Speaker.''.
''Alright gentlemano.l.wait a minute-...Hon. éobert Blair: ,. Gentleman from Union ah...Mr. Choateo''
Clyde L. Choate: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, 1, if I had a Democratic
Conference I'd only have one thing to advise the membershi
so 1*111 advise the membership of that now. The leadership
met this morning and contrary to some reports, egpecially
from the news medium, it's our thinking that we can get out
of this session and honorably discharge the duties of this
legislative session prior to Friday, with the cooperation
and the wiliingness of the membership, it would be our hopthat we could get out of here eve'n as early as Wednesday.
Thereforq, 1. will need no conference, Mr. Speakero''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''O-K, we'll now go into recess and be ba k
on the floor in 15 minutes, approximately 10 minutes of tw .I; . Alright, the House will be in session and the chair will .
recognize those of yoû who have motions that you desire to
address to the chair concerning Fenabe bi'lls that were tab ed
and that on this tabling bills some weeks ago. Gentleman
from Lake Mr. Murphy desire recognition?/'
W. J.. Murphy: ''Ah...yes, Mr. Speaker. I have alittle senate% :.'-
bill that I.m handling for Senator Burny on third reading.
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It affects no one but ah.. .a little local situation up in
Lake County and it has the approval of the division of wat r-
way's to give a piece of land back to a person that they to k
from some years ago. And Mr. Speaker, Senate Bill 1373,
and I would move that that would be taken from the table
and be put back on the order of third reading, please.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, is there discussicn on the gen leman'
motion? Al1 those in favor will vote 'aye' and the oppls dê
'no'. We're gonna vote on them, because we voted on them
when they were tabled so-e..Have a1l voted who wished? Cl rk
will take the record. On this question there are ll; 'aye '#
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no 'nays'. And Senat'e Bill 1373 ahe . .having been placed o
the table when it was on the order of third reading ah. . .i
taken off the table and is placëd on the order of third re ding.
Gentleman from cook, Mr. Ron Hoffman.''
R.K. Hoffman: ''Mr. Speaker: members of the House, I ask that '
Senate Bill 851 be taken from the table and restored to th
calendar on the order of third reading . This bill is an a t
that provides for the distribution of township funds. Ah. .
it was passed from the Senate without a dissentive vote an
I would ask for your support.n
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Is there discussion on the gentleman's
motion? All those in favor will vote 'aye', and the oppos d
'no .. Have a1l voted who wished? Have all voted who wish d?
The clerk will take the record. On this question there ar
111 Iayes', no 'nays'. And the Senaie Bill 95l is taken f om
the table and placed on.the order of kecond reading, from
>.. C':*,x where it was when it was plaçed on the table. Gentleman fromts'' b ' e--r> %L G E N E It A L A S S E M B L Yj ..7 17 '': . ' z i. h; ç.- t f ' - ' à 3 s 'r n. 'r c o v l t. u 1 N o 1 s$$ . ? < . Y. i' $J$' . H o u s b: o j- r? c f> Iv Ei s E wl 'r Jt 'r I v t: s
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i k Mr . Ron HOf fman : ''coo ,
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R.K. Hoffman: ''Mr. Speaker, that was on the order of second!
l din ana should have been p'laeed on the order of thirdrea g) - 'p
.reading at the time it was tabled.''
W. Robert Blair: ''Well, it would have to be read a second
time first. It'l1 have to have three legislative day read'ngs
and what Ifm saying is, we couldn't do that. . .both of thosin one day. Gpntleman from cook
, Mr. Ron Hoffman.''
R. K. Hoffmanz ''Mr. Speaker, members of the House, just to elar'fysomething, I believe the majority leader reqd senate Bill1494 . was restored to the order of second reading..- Henry.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: nThat's correct, I understand. Yes the
gentleman from cook, Mr. Ron Hoffman-''
R. K. Hoffman: ''Then I Vould agk, Mr. Speaker, that SenateBill
1364 be restored to the Calendar. Now Senate Bill 1364 wa
in committee and with the agreement between the leadership
and the other side of the aisle and myself, was being heldtiere ah.os so
.thak an amendment could be prepared. Theamendment is prepared, and I would ask that the bill be
by passed from committee and restored on thecalendar on th order of second reading, as I do have their amendment- '' ' .
Eion. W. Robert Blair: nGenfleman from cbok Mr. Shea.''#
Gerald W. shea: ''I'm wondering if the gentleman would hold thamotion until I have a chance to talk with him?''
''ion. W. Robert Blair: ''He indicates he will. Alright, the gen leman
fpom cook, Mr. Glass.''
'radley M . Glass: nThank you Mr. Speaker. move that senate
Billl 1504, whicl yas qn the jrclqar of second reading, I believe,?) L N E A L A S t: 51 13 L YSYA'T'E GF I Lu1No1S
Hokl S E 6) 6 12 fse E' E G 1: N 'r A T I &/ EG
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and was tabled, ah . v .be taken from the table and vestored
to thd order of second reading . This is the bill that rev ses
the procedure relative to suspension of ah- o -students in
public school. And I have sponsored a aimilar bill in the
House. Ah....It was tabled Over in the Senate. And
the Sponsor is Representative Palmer, and I know thai ah..
he would like to have this bill restored. . So I so move,
Mr. Speaker-n
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, is there discussion? A1l those
in favor of taking this Senate bill from. - senate Bill l5O .
from the table will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no
Have a1l voted who wished? Clerk will take the record.
On this question there are 82 'ayes' and l 'nay'. And th s'
bill is taken fron the table and placed on tbe order Qf
second reading. Gentleman from cook Mr. Sevcik.''. #
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. Joseph G. Sevcik: ''Mr. Speaker, like to move that Senate '
Bill 1487, which was in the committee on Registration and
Regulatiop. tabled, be taken èrom the table and be placedin its proper order . Ah.m.this bill provides a mothod for
Illinois residence who are graduates of a foreign medicalschool to intern in an Illinois Hos'pital.
''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: nAlright, now this is the first one that
we've had in this situation, I believe, the digest indieat s
that that bill was in the'committee on Registration andRegulation. If it were to be taken from the table
, with nfurther action being addressed to it would be in ah...registration and regulation. Then if you care to address
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yourself' to further moticns concerning that, well, the cha.'r
would entertain them. Do you want to - - first do you want' to take it and place it aho..off the table into committee?
Alright. Is there any discussion on that? All those in '
favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Have a1l vot d#
who wished? Clerk will take the record. On this question
there are 96 'ayes' no 'nays' And this bill is taken fr m#
the table and ah..eis in the committee on Registration and
Regulation. Now the gentleman from coök, Mr. Sevcik.''
Joseph G. Sevcik: ''Mr. Speaker, ladies'and gentlemen of the Ho se,
I would like to have senate Bill 1487 ah.o.be taken away f om
the committee of Registration and Regulation, and placed
on second reading. To advance it without reference. . .k''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''No, its be'en referred. Actually the
proper motion will be one to discharge the committee .n
Joseph G. Sevcik: ask to discharge the committee.''
Hon. Robert Blair: ''Alright, now is there discussion on khe
gentleman's motion to discharge ah...Registration and Regu aticnv--
Committee of Senate Bill 14877 Well, we have one technica
problem. Ah...the rule concerning discharging a committee,
which is rule 79, provides that a member may move to disch rge
by giving a written notice there during the order of resol tions
and the motion of discharge skall be carried on the Calend r
of the next legislative day and shall not be acted upon un il
a notice is on the calendar. Now you can move to suspend
aho-.that rule ah....if you wish to, so that it may be
placed on the calendar on the order of second re/ding. Al ight,
oLx<zsx the gentleman first asks for unanimous consent to suspend the';A . , .. .$ ? ' -;.'> ecxj G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y(1 ;: q . f .?? svxxc os 'uu,so.sï ? .x ek. j.ji è .T. . pj o u s s o p' re q: en u sc ru-r A 'r I v cs.,. ..r,.:ysv
the provisions of rule 79. so that'that Senate Bi11, thatthat rule may Be suspended so that the bill' may be placedon the order of second reading
- Ah..is there objection?Alrigbt, hearing no objection then, rule 79 is suspended a dthe bill is now placed on the order of second reading.Gentleman from cook , Mr. J.J. Wolf.'%
J. Woxf: HMr. Speaker, members of the Hoùse I have the same1request with reference to Senate Bills 1468 and 1469. The
do have some fiscal implication. They would allow ah. . .
negotiate leases from two years up to five years which cou dresult in some savings to the stake
. And also provide forah-..competitive bidding and renewal clauses. or option topurchase in the lease . And I Would move that ah. . .ah...these two bills be .taken from the table
.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, ah.m.in order to perhaps, save
i h don't we say that the gentleman's asking fort me, w y
unanimous consent to. . . -for the following purposes) to tak
those bills from the table, to suspend the provisions of..eA '
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rule 79 so that those bills may be placed on the order of
second reading. Now is there objection to vthat? O-K, thegentleman from cook , Mr. Shea.''
Gerald W. Shea: ''Can i ask.him a question about this bill? Asunderstand the purpose of this leuislation, this would
allow the Department of General Administrative Services,instead of two years leases to go right now, into five yealeases?''
. J. J. Wolfe: ''Thatfs correct.n
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Gerald W. SheA: ''And this bill hasn't been heard in committee
yet, has ita''
J. J. Wolf: ''Not in the House Committee. It has been heard in
Senate Committee, and then it was in the House Executive
Committee, and that was the day it was turned up and table .''
Gerald W. Shea: ''Well, think that this is kind of a bad proc-dure
that right at thés point we get into where we start talkin
about five year leases. And I think this is the kind of
bill that should get heard in committee.''
J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speakera''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, then I think we'd better take
it a step at the time. The first question that the motion
that the gentleman put, is that these two bills be taken
from the table. Just be taken from the table. Gentleman
from Union, Mr. Cho:te, want to be heard on that motional'' Clyde B. Choate: ''Is this ah..el was off the floor for just a'
second, Mr. Speaker. This is a bill....I mean.o.this is
a motion to take these two bills from the table and placeZ
them on the calendar, is that right?''
Hon . W . Robert Blair : ''W 11 e no, its now. . . .we were trying toe
ponsolidate ah. . .the ah. .motions there . But now we have
devised them once again, so that simple a motion to take
these two bills from the table and...owait a minute now. t
appears that on one of the bills that it was tabled by the
committee?''
J. J. Wolfe: ''Mr. Speaker. these bills were scheduled and poste
for hearing in committ/e, and when th'e bill was to be hear l
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a list o'f tabled bills on which these'two bills appeared.And so we never did have a hearing that day. All I would
. like to do now, Mr. Speaker, is to Yave them taken from thtable and then we could proceed and have them heard incommittee.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Well, wait a minute. o o -on the digest
indicating on 1468, that that was tabled on June 6th. Tha
was the day that there was the general tabling motion. On
1469 it appears that, it was tabled on June S, which would
have been the day before the general tabling, and that's . .
wedre going to check in the clerk's office to see..... ''
J. Wolf: It appears that the digest would be in error, Mr.Speaker.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''That's what we're checking right noy.
Gentleman from Union, Mr. Choate, we're still checking her .''
Clyde L. Choate: '.Well, Mr. Speaker, ah...I said a moment ago
that I was off the floor when the bills were called and Iheard them over my intercom
, consequently I didn't hearXM .
all the motions and dialogue, but its my understanding tha
these bills have not been heard in committee?''Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''On these bills
, now? Yea. ah..wthat. appears to be correct, ah...''
Clyde L. Choate: ''Then. . oThen Mr. Speaker, I would assume thatthe proper motion, if the gentleman wishes to make it, isto discharge the committee from consideration, or to bypaawthe committee, at which time it would take 89 votes toacco' mplish that purpose
.''
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svwvs oe luujsojs11 . n, . . .. *
4 HousE OF Rlpax:laT'A.Tlvlsqx,J . ...L-- .
. .. . '. . ' . :
Hon. W . Robert Blair : ''Alright , now ther'e is . . .'
there is some
czii.fus lon . '.phe digest on 1459 , we checked it out, and the.2 . ; '. . . . . . k; . . . j' cu.lling .uiaat .kook place on thdt bil- ' we re advised is, wa.
the Senate/ And that bill never came over here. 1469.
was never passed in the Senate-''
' . . : ;. . j ..J. J. Wolf: ''Well, I was quite certain, Mr. Speaker, that they
Fere.botb .posted for hearing. Now, I coùld recheck that.. . z ' J '?'.t't? :(: !;*..'.' rlit 2 1 on '-zkith regard to S enate Bill l46 8 is just tot ' . s' . . . . ' . . t .
. euxo frorlitvhe 'tasze . ',
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, Why don ' t we do 1468, which ist6 take from the table, which that prevails, will be inthe House executive committee and if appropriate action is
. desired to be taken, further motion will have to be made
Then on 1469, sugkest that maybe you'd bettek check that
out with the Senate, because ahe e .the indication is that i
never passed the Senate. Alright, the question is on the
gentleman's motion to take Senate Bill 1468 from the table'ahd place it before tbe executive committee whereit has be n.
' .l A)l those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no '.. '
':éàve all voted who wished? Clerk will take the record..
On this questicn there are 66 'ayes', and 51 'nays'. And'-' the gentleman's motion 'to take from .the table
, have the bi 1
onco again before the House executiv'e çommittee prevails.#
'
Now does the gtantleman care to make any further motions atI: . *' J' '' tnis time on that one? Alright. Now the gentleman from
cook, Mr. Schlickman.n
Eugene E. Schlickmas: ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen o.. .. .,'7:1 ' 11 .f!. '.i(/' ... JI . ..ab
. /w . - . > $ . . .. .
' I R/ l kj :
* 'k ' . k) . ' ' ï '. & ? * s v a .r s
'
o e. j u u j N o j s' $ 1. . Q ' ' / ' u o u s l o F 14 s p n e s c N 'r A 'r l v e s-.s2;, ' r. '
l5.the Hous'e, I move that SenatE Bill 1381 which was cn the;
'
order of second reading at the time the motion to table wa'
adopted be taken from the table an'd be returned to the
order of second reading. Senate Bill 1381, which was hear
by Judiciary 11 Committee, would give to municipalities anc
Sanitary districts quick take power, or for the purpose of
expanding or constructing sewerage treatment facilities.
Such municipalities or counties are authorized or required
by law, to acquire land or interest there in. By Senate
Bill 1381 weld be giving authority to munieipalities and
Sanitary districts that is equal to the authority that thi
legislature and the Governor of this state, gave to the
Metropolitan Sanitary district of greater Chicago in 1971
by House Bill 1660. In support of the bill, the environme tal
Protection Agency indicated that by granting quick take po ers
to certaln communities would make an important contributio s
to Illinois program of improving water quality, in additio
to helping speed construction of improved sewerage treatme t
facilities. This bill would also allow the state EPA to
disburse Anti-pollution bond funds more rapidly. I should
also say, Kr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of the Hous ,
that the Attorney General Also has 'an interest in this bil .
Again, Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of the House,
do move that Senate Bill 1381 be taken from the table and
placed at the order of second reading.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentlem'an from Clair Mr. Krause.''#
James G. Krause: ''Well Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen o#. -sg a. , ù'nh.
. 'J,2 ) .'..>. k' c E N E R A 1
. A s s E M B L Y/ ' q!. . 't!;' - .
'k,
-ç- , ; s r A 'r e o e I k. u l 'q o l sS.e '.j . , ' .T'..(t'. . H o u s t: o e .. s e a e s e 'g .r A m 1 v s s.Z'>.
l6.
the House, when we start talking about quiek take for loca
sanitary districts, thi.nk we're getting into a very bad
field. Quick takes bad enough with the ah.o.Flighway Depar -
ment ah...much less getting it down into the Sanitary
districts. And I would hope that this motion be defeated-'
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from ah..-cook, Mr . Fledk.''
Charles J. Fleck: ''We'll, Mr. Speaker, regarding moving this bi l
from the table. It appeared in the Judiciary Committee wh re
I'm a member and its under my impression, and I just talke
to the House Sponsor, that there are some amendments which
w il1 be presented on second reading, which might resolve a y
#roblems that the Representative on the other side of theaisle might have.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Further discu-..e.gentleman from Christ an,
Mr. T pswor .' Rolland F. Tipsword: wonder if the gentleman could inform u'
what the amendments are to these bills?''
Hon. W. Roberk-Blairz ''Gentleman' from cook, Mr. Schlickmano''
Dugene E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of
the House, the one amendment that I will be offer, ing was
prepared at the request of b0th th8 environmental protecti n
agency and the Attorney General's Estate It makes specif c
that the quick takp authority will be limited, restricted
to ah..-sanitary sewer disposal projects ahe..alonee not t
be unrelated. Another part of the amendment would extend
this authority to counties under 200.000. The bill was
originally introduced, Qas limit6Td to counties 200,000 or. x. ..J xx .p ' 'ils'q lj .Li -) .-! : c). z.. j 7--- 1 G E N E R A 1. A S S E M 13 L Y1
( ;( t- . : '. ' r.h - 'J s x x v s o v. I u u I sl o , sl h. :($ . . , fj.L . . .-Xx i ' ; / . . ' H o u s Iz o F R E e r? e s c N 'r A. w I v u sx.* / r. v. . * e %-.
l7.'
A a5n Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of t eor more. g . ,
House, I would like to call toyour attention that the limi ed
authority that we would be provididg in Senate Bill 1381,
and I don't intend to go into the merits of the bill at th s
time T'm simply moving that it be returned to the order o
second reading where it was, that the limited authority th t
we're providing in this bill is similar to the general
authority that was given to khe metropolitan Sanitary dist ict
of chicago in 1971...
Hon W. Robert Blair: HGentleman from Macon, Mr. Borchers.''
Webber Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker, fellow members of the House,
I earnestly urge vote nc on this. This is oye ning up a
door again, that is beginning the destrzction of freedom '
and liberty. And I cannot see why we want to take away th
rights of the people. The rights of the people should be
the firs't thing we should consider and preserve. The muni i-
palities can move in their due course. And the Sanitary
districtp- and move in their due course. But to be able to
take quickly. without proper..oand make this a proper
procedur e of law, is just simply wrong-''Hon. Robert Blair: nAny furthur discussion? Gentleman from
cook, Mr. Schlickman.''
Eugene E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of
the House, in closing the debate on this matter, I'm simpl
moving that this bill be returned to the order of second
readipg where it was alA..:at the time the motion to tableall Senate bills in this House was made and adopted. I've
. . %s. : #.f .J/: :-v.''A c E x E R A L A s s E M B t. v,1 a .., l k. .-'. . r &. î'1 svxxs orz 1 uulxo'shk i'-( .,, x,. . -?. -'* J. ou s s: o e. 1: c ela cs e: :4 'r x'r $ v esN. . . el6' ,. ... , & e *
def.erred and restrained from arguing the merits of the bi 1because I don't think they are in order at thistime. asfo2 the privilege that has been extended to other membersof this House. By the introductory comments that I made:I want to indicate to you that it was a bill of significan e,a bill of great importance to the Staœ of Illinois. I do
request, Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of the House,that I be extended the courtesy given to other members ofthis chamber today and that we give ourselves the opportun'tyof debating the matter at third reading.n
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alrighty the question is shall the qent eman's
motion to take this bill from the table prevail. Al1 thosin favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Gentleman#
'
from Kane, Mr. Hill.''
John Jerome Hillr ''Ah. . .Mr. Speaker, does this only take a maj rity. . . '
vote now? Of those voting?'' '
Hon. Robert Blair: nYes: same number that's required to pla e
a bill on the table, which is a simple majority.''
John Jerome Hill: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, if I may say just a fewwords. This is a very bad piece of legislation andcertainly appreciate very much if you would vote no on thipiece of legislation. It only takes a majority of thosepeople voting and certainly 1 don't believe that we shouldallow this piece of le/islation to cope to the fl
oor of thHouse under those conditions. Thank you-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from ahz.cook, Mr. Duff. ''
Brian B. Duff: ''Mr. Speaker,.just to explain my vote. Pirst ov !.V E rl. '
'42b .',rrxih c jy x s R A I
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s v s v. p: o s t u u , s, o ( s. ' t.: zg h . )-. kj oo ss o s .n ,u e s s ss ,q v . v , u u s
h. ., .-a.x . NMQZM.
19.
all, thd gentleman has only asked to be accorded the privi. ege
to return a bill to second reading, which has been given t' everybody else on the floor at thié stage in time, because
of the accident of the earlier tabling. Second of all, th's
bill does ah...in a very limited way, what was very.e..off rs
of power that was given last year in amuch more general wa
to the metropolitan Sanitary District of Chicago. It seem
eminently reasonable for me-o.to me, for us to be willing
to listen to his efforts to try to extend that great power
that we granted last year with a vote of approximately 13l
to 10 ah....to this bill at least to get it to second read'ng-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have all voted who wished? The clerk
will take the record. On this question there are ...J. .'
Scariano, lno'. On this question there are 40 'ayes', and
69 'nays'. And the gentleman's motion to take from the
table aha..fails. Gentleman from ahx.cook, Mr. Moore .''
Don A. Moore: ''Thank you Mr. Speaker ladies pnd gentlemen of t e
House. Mr. Speaker on last week there was Senate Bill 147
that was aho..the committee was discharged and the bill wa
advanced to the order of Senate Bills second reading witho t
after the committee was discharged. This is a bill that '
pertains just to aho-my particular district. It authoriz s
the school building commission to convey lands to the trus ees
of schools so that in exchange of land can be made between
the school district and someone else. A14-.-the reason for
the bill is that the authority has to be granted to the 11 inois
Building Authority ah-..who has title to the land . ordina ily
Xb : m-.?kN. c E N E R A L. A s s E 51 8 1. Y.' ytftli... , ., , !
l Jf %' i .'. ' *6 .. '. v axf: fa s l uu ç sl o , s.t z $.6 f. .. i 5NxV.. &; .e# j:' o * ./' j: o u s jg o g' jv c yp R c s c N A' h 'r I v (: s ij*. ç)... . &eN
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t
2o.
the township school trustees could do this, ah..-the bill
d anced without reference in the Senate, passed unani ouslywas a v
there. The same.thing happene'd here when we discharged th
i d' Mr speaker at this time I would like tocomm ttee, an . ,
move that the bill be thken from the table and placed upon
the order of Senate bills second reading.''
Hon. W. Röbert Blair: ''Gentleman from Ah. . .St. Clair, Mr. Krau e.O
James R. Krause: ''Thank ycu Mr. Speaker, Don, are youo..what a e
you doing here? œ eating land?n
Don A. Moore: ''That's correct. Ak a value that is the value
and desirability of any land exchanged shall be determined
by the scho&l building commission. Welre swappipg so many
' feet of land that is not adjacent to the school. for a
larger number of skuare feçt of land that is adjacent to t eschool. But the final determination is up to the school
building authority.u
James R. Krause: ''O-K, thank you.''
Hon. W. Roberk Blair: ''Alright, any further discussion? A1l
those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Hav
all voted who wished? The clerk will take the record. On
this question there are ll7 'ayes' no 'nays'. And the. #
gentleman's motion to Eake from the'table, prevails. Gent eman
from cook, Mr. Shea.''
Gerald Shea: ''Mr. Speaker, ah.-.senate Bill 89O ah. owas inthe executive committee. I've discussed it with b0th sideof the aisle. I've disvcussed it with Mr. Juckett It
establishes the joint computor operations study commission.
J .: . > y'! G E N jï 11 A L A s s E M B L Yç i- k':f . q.. l'. f . ' t ' ' ' s T' A.
'r E o p' I k. k. j a o I s1 IVV Y''' ' ''* 'i, ' HoU SE o F r? IZ PR E 5 t: lq T 8 T $ V IJS. .% $ 6%*
'
21
' I'd like unanimous consent to have it taken frcm the table
and plaeed..oor taken from the committee and placed on the
order of Senate Bills second reading ah...second legislati e tI' day. Where I can get it in posture where I can get it ame ded !
. Etoday if I have toa'' E
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Right, gentleman from cook, Mr. Hyde.''
Henry J. Hyde: ''We1l, Mr. speaker, I join the distinquished '
Assistant Minority leader in his motion, we have leadershi
has discussed this and we think thi's should be accomplishe .u
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, does the gentleman have consen
to suspend the provisions of rule 79 so that the committee
may be discharged and this bill placed on the order of
second reading, second legislative day? Hearing no object'onthen that bill will be placeè on that order. 89O rigbt.
Alright, now back to the gentlèman from cook, Mr. Ron Hoff ane''
R. K. Hoffman: nThank you Mr. Speaker, members of the House.
would aqain ask leave to take Senate Bill 1364 from the''''' .
; éalendar .and also to suspend the provisions of rule 79 and1I
, ah...discharge committee and move to the calendar .on the o der
of seccnd reading.'.
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from êook. Mr. Shea.''
Gerald W. Shea: ''Mr. Speaker, I've discussed this with Represe ta-
tive Hoffman, and he's assured me that if it gets out on
second reading he'll hold it until wè can either agree or
that..e.so I think it would put his bill in a position to
move if we get an agreement.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alrigit, the gentleman's motion is to su pend
-( &: a..f.y''X.' .c...my'qj c E N E R A jw A s s E 51 8 L Y.: ) .. vj/1 7. : - '?.t.x,,t1 xavs os 'uulslo,s9-$4.: . p , s$. . jLk:' ,r72. . uou ss ùs rzcl.r. csc xvlvl w ssx .., csry '
22. !hthe provîsions of rule 79 so that this bill may be placed i(
:on the order of second reading. Is there leave? HeaG ng o ;!
objection then the bill will be pla'ced on the order of sec nd '
reading. Gentleman from Dupage, Mr. Philip-''
James Philip: ''Mr. Speaker, I'd like to move that Senate Bill
1411 be removed from the table and put on the order of sec nd
reading. Itk' an act relating to water supply and drainage
and 'klood control. It stems from January 1, 1972 to July1, 1973. The date in which bonds issue may bear T$ inter st
.
And after that may not exceed 6%.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Is there discussion on that? Question
is shall it prevail. A11 those in favor will vote 'aye',
and the opposed 'no'. Have a1l voted who wished? Cler'k
will take the record. On this question there are 78 'ayes',
no 'nays' And the' gentleman's motion previals. Now, on
the gentleman from cook, Mr. Ron Hoffman's motion concerni g
1364, we stood by the motion tc take it from the table and
advance it to second without reference on the suspension
by consent. We need to go back and have him renew his mot'onto take that bill from the table . Al1 those in favor will
vote 'ayef. and the opposed 'no'. On Senate Bill 1364.
' Have all voted who wished? Clerk will take the record.
On this question there are 86 'ayest and l 'nay'. And th#
bill is taken from the table and as previously indicated t e
'provisions of rule 79 were suspended so that it could be
placed on the order of second reading . Now the gentleman
from cook, Mr. J. J. Wolf. ''
K. :): ,,,V $ % 'dch G E N E It A L A S S 1! M B L Y. .fb ... -!'j :.;. r ,j)î- ;A :,'..,.3. ) ,. s'r z. 'r u o '- , u u ' 'q o ' s$ W' ; ' . ' ' . @. ' ld o ta s 1: o lr ta c 1 . lv c G c tq 'r A. 'r t v E: s%' . :.41. . i +%
23.
J. J. Wolf: ''Yes Mr. Speaker, a few moments ago I made an err r,#
'
I asked to have Senate Bill 1468 and 69 taken and 1469 wqs
in fact ah...never passed by the Senate. It was 1467, tha
I should have asked for which is the companion to 1468. A d
so I would ask that senate Bill 1467 be taken from the tab e
so can be heard in committee with its companion 1468.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Have al1 voted who wished. . .or.. .
Alright, its cn the gentleman's motion to take from the ta le.
Gentleman from Union, ?4r. Choateo''
Clyde L. Choate: ''His motion to take from the table'is simply o
that it could be referred to committee for a hearing as I
understand it?''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''yes, that's whato . . .that's...mwhen the
bill was tabled it was in executive committee. so if .his
motion to take from the table prevails it will be in execu ive
committee and will not have any impairment as far as being
heard if the necessary rules are suspended so it can't be-'
A1l those -in favor of the gentleman's motion will voke îay ',
and the opposed 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Clerk w 'll
take the record. On this question there a<e 72 'ayes' an#
'
4 'nays' And the gentleman's motion prevails. Gentleman
from McLeany Mr. Bradley. ''
Gerald A. Bradley: ''Mr. Speaker in regard to. . p .was it 1468?
That was tabled in the Senate that he tried to move a minu e
ago? 69? Thank you.''
b t Blair: ''Alright' does that bring us up to date?Hon. W. Ro er p
Oh the Gentleman from Lawrence, Mr. Cunninghamy... w JJ;A ' ' :aJ) ewarvs c E N E R a j
- A s s E M 1) L, vz. . , .; . ,i' 2 -2j k .%. 11* f. . I . ,(r . ; G l ST 8 T E: C) F l L L 1 lq C) I S
. ( ;,.=.. ., . .% . H o tl 5 C O 1r Fê EeR E 5 E :1 3 A. T I %' 16 S.*.. c vsss
R. D. Cunningham : ''Mr . Speaker, members of the House , Serlate
bill 1462 is an insurance department bill to more carefull
define the rights of the director where a insurance compan
is impaired for failure to maintain minimum requir ed surpl s .It was tabled here after it had been assigned to committee
through a misunderstanding between Representative Miller
and hyself as to who was to handle the bill. Acccrdingly t
. 1 would make a motion that it be taken from the table, ifthat succeeds we'll make a motion to suspend rule 79
-',
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? Alright, the questions on
the gentleman's motion ah. . oto take it from the table. A1
those in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed 'no'. Hav#
' all voted who wished? Take the record. On this question
there a re 76 Iayes' 1 'nay'. And the gentleman's motion#
to take from the table prevails. Gentleman from...o.Madig n,d ' ' leman from Lawrence Mr
. Cunninghaml'e p aye . Gent g
R. D. Cunningham: ''Mr. Speakere I move that we suspend rul'e
I and spnate bill 1462 be placed on second reading, seco d '
legislative day. I ask unanimous consento''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from cooke Mr. Shea.n
Gerald W. Shea: ''Well. Mr. Speaker, this is a very involved
technical bill that has' to do with lnsurance companies andsurpluses. Ah...I've read the billa couple of times and Ithink this is the kind of thing that ought to be heard incommittee. Ah..oa1Ad j1d object to any upanimous consent othis . ''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Objections been heard. Gentleman from....cA .., . cook Mr . Peter Mi ller . ''/ b -.fr-.> 'N ' G p: x p: It A t
. A s s E M Ij t, v/ vt e. .g) q j' t t ç r- 'k., ;!; :; , s v. ,. v. r.: o ,. . u u 1 ?.' o , s$.4 .(j y , 'r . ' 'w . . ' py Ny qj s s cj v sj s p rj s o u s a. a, v j v v: s''xu s
25.
P. J. Miller: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, we could hear this bill tolno row
morninq in committee, with the permission of the House. I
that's what ReFresentative Shëa desires? Representat've
Shea?''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from Union, Mr.choate.''
Clyde L. Choate: ?'Well, as I said earlier this morning, Mr.
Speaker, ah...after the leadership meeting.it was our hope
that we could go ahead and attempt tc pursue orderly and
even hôpefully get out of here as early as Wednesday or
Thursday, but if we start having committee hearings and
bringing bills back to the floor of the House, it would be
on the order of first second or third reading, we're not#
going to do it boys. And I would hope that the membership
would cooperatee to the extent that we can orderly dischar e
this session as soon. as possible-''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, ah...There's objection on the
gentleman's ah...request for leave.''
P.J. Miller: thought he went through his objection, Mr. Spe ker,
I was hopeful that Representative Shea had reconsidered.''
Gerald W. Shea: ''I'd ask the gentleman to hold his motion for
a minute, I'd like to talk to him a'bout the bi1l.''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, o-k, we now finished for the
time being, I take with these motions to take from the
taH e. House bills third reading. Ah...no? Alright,
Gentlemanqfrom cook, Mr. Richard Walsh-''
R. A.' Walsh: ''Ah...Mr. Speaker, Representative Harber Hall
handling Senate Bills 1524 and 1525, b0th of which were he rd
.. iy!x :J)j. i), su.s,. fzîhkç--fpMe'h G E N E It A L A S S E 51 B L Yj k:.2:'. r ) .$, (.t( o .kt .' ) - ) svxvc os I uulsolshx.. '
..L.v* ..:'. .('. .1 ., .c, ss cj s Ia c ;..a s sc ,. v . .r , v ss
.. ,,. o/....k0
26.
in the Revenue Committee. And I think through advertense
were tabled along with that slew of bills that were tabled
on June 6th. These bixs were reported out of the revenue
committee favorably on June 2nd, and ah...it just seems to
me they shouldn't have been tabled, and I would move ah..
Mr. Speaker, that they be taken from the table.'. .
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, is' there discussion? They wou d
have been on second reading. At the time they were tabled
Gentleman from Peoria Mr. Carrigan.''
J'ames D. Carrigan: ''Mr. Speaker, what bill are we talking abou ?'' '
. Hon. W. Robert Blair: ..1524 and 1525.''
James o. carrigan: ''Thank you-''
' Hon. W . Robert Blair: ''Your welcome. Gentleman from Union,
Mr. Choatek'' . !
:Clyde L. Choate: ''Ild like to ask the sponsor a couple of ques ions.
Representative Walsh, what is the procedure determining th
eligibility of a license holder or license applicant at
the present time?''
R. A. Walsh: ''The ah..omy understanding is that these bills
relate to distrihutors, cig arette distributors and there
is apparently i:o standard that any applicant upon paying. .
submitting a $250.00 bond, must be'awarded a distributors
license by the Department of Revenue-n
Clyde L. Choate: oDo you mean to tell me that any . v .any applica t
for a distributorships license at the present time, has
absolutely no requirementâ to meet? Has absolutely no
screening done by the agency, or any agency as f ar as his
êsaf' ',, application is concorned? ''. 4 * j a s'e ',y?z'c. ï ? q G sf N E lt A L A s s E M 1, L v( :/ y- y..:, : (j 7 / sv a. w c o s , u u t pl o j sk .ï.e'.n'.
N'..' - z' s o u s tc o s r. c r- n c su .1 v Av I v cs '
.Att. l . kef'
l
2 7 .
R. A. Walsh: ''Ah...my understanding, Represenuative ChGato, is
that that's the c' se. These bills are merely to provide f r
the same standaràs for cigarette tax distributors as.exist
in the liquor con'lrol act for liquor Nholesalersa''
Clyde L. Choate: ''We1l, Mr. Speaker, I'm not going to ah..obje t
to the reviving of these bills and having them brought on he
calendar, however, I do want to point out that after hasti'y. . .p,scanning them, ahal''' I could 'be wrong, but I do believe ther
i ions that these people must meet today, Represent tive 'is prov s
Walsh. And it Llpears to me that, after hastily scanning
the brief, as far'as the digest is concerned, that it's pla ing
an extremely great amôunt of power in the director of this
Department. And if I'm right, and after carefully screeni g,
'
Ithem, I will oppose them 6n the floor of this House. I I1Ihope that I'm wrong, but as far as I'm concerned you can.r vive !
them, but we're going to take a good hard close look at th m
before they ah..ware called on third reading-'' .' ' Hon. W. Roberf Bïairr. ''Alright, ah...question is on the gentle an's
motion to take fxom the table with respect to these two
Senate Bills. Al1 those in favor will vote 'aye', ahd the' opposed 'no'. Have al1 voted who wished? clerk will take
h d On this qu/stion theçe are 53 layes' and lt e recor . ,
nay'. And each tof these bills are taken from the table an
placed on the o.,-'qer of second reading. Gentleman from
' Effingham, Mr. Keller.'' . ' '
Charles F. Keller: '1Mr. Speaker, I would like to make motion t
ta e e ate ' '1 1449 f rclt) the table and put it on order o .
, :4 ' ', ' .sn-%-'k second read i ng ? 'f.; '' ' qN E 11 A L A S S E 51 B L Yt''.?- ko -'.q . ,' '.h k) ' svaxc or- , uu, ,.,olsh
. . ' . tw k '.r . . -. . ' jx o o s c o ,r a r.: e , . c s u x v. a x I w Iu sN. ,. 1 ' ..+
;8.Charles F. Keller: ''rts an act relating to water authority and
I have one particular district, understand its the onlyone type in the state. that ahoo.does not have the right t
appoint the members to the water authority board.''Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Is there ah
. . .discussion. All those infavor will vote Saye' and the opposed 'no '. Have all vot dwho vished? Clerk will take the record
a' On this questionthere are 70 tayes' no 'nays's And the gentleman's motio#
prevails. Gentleman from Tazwelle Mr. VonBoekman.''
James VonBoeckman: ''Mr. Speaker, I would like to suspond rule
79 to advance Senate Bill 1554, which is an apprcplation f rthe transportation of school children from second reading stday to second reading 2nd day
ai'
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, the gentleman's asking forunanimous consent to suspend so it ean be placëdon the ord rof second reading, second day. Is thereobjeetion? Hearinnone then it will be placed on that order
. Alright, arewe finished now with those? Alrighk
. House Bills third.>'
reading. House Bill 800..,
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Houe Bill :00. An act to Provide for <ei rse-
ment to depositors in the aity savings association of Chic o.
And make an appropriation therefore. Third reading of the
bill. ''
Hon. W- Robert Blair: ''Alright, whose ah-.-Gentleman from cook
,
Mr. Peter Millero''
P. J. Miller: ''Mr. Speaker, ,ladies and gentlemen of the HouseHôuse bill 800 as you well know
, is a bill to reineurse th
. ..,r '.,,; victims , the depositors of the City Savings and Loan, who' ..za .....w,'. ' G (.r x Iy R A k. A s s E M I 9 L Y;? 7 . é C' h'j t : : l 'b. i !o? J: ' t s'ra'ru os 'us-:-o's. /'. ( l '7. ' Y œAtt
. H ot/ f; 1: O F T# E PR ESED N Y A T 1 %! CS. . ,.0 a ., . , . x.
29.
lost their life savings in the Defunked bank which is now
under Federal Liquidation. The bill originally called for
$30,000.000 and I amended it so thak the liquidation of th
or assets will bring in some eight .or tqn million dollars,
and with the $15,000,000 in the bill. I feel that these
unfortunate victims can be reimbursed a portion of téeir
losses. Now as I said previously, there are so many viol tions
that occured while the city' savings and loan was in operat'on
that it would take me a considerable amount of time to go
over a1l of them such as giving out millions of dollars
in mortgages to co-eonspir A ors with Menzik. And also dec aring
dividends in the'63, when there was some $15,000,000 injeopardy. The financial institution.a.Department of finan ia1institution failed i n hanclling the problems oE the bqnk.
They did not for one see'if they were insured. Number tw# . . .
. they were closed and tben reopend by the circuit court. N' w
with ar1 of the violationse feel that the state shculd
show its faith in its citizehs, taxpayers by making up forZ
this loss. Now the man who was at the head of this instit tion
is a fu qitive from justice, having run away from the farm.
A Federal Penal Institution, just when the head of the I11 nois
Crime Commissio n, its head investigator, Ceryagos was on
his way to ask some questions he conve .niently walked awa#
from the farm. Now to thè eredit of'the Illinois Crime
commission, they investigated and found that the state wasin error. You a11 have copied of their report
. And they
felt that the state owed a duty to these depositors to see..y- 'J.'tk ''t-j., that 'they were reilnbursed in . i.n . . in . . . . in part . Now I') $ p j -,=n - y c E N l:: It A L A !1 k IJ7 M 19 i- vj tt... , t jj, t )t
... .-sd; - : sx '.v s o ,. . u:u . ,4 o ! s
k' tz? Jrx. ' , H o u s c o s . R E p r/ c s c N 'r /$ 'r 1 v e; s* f tg . . &'*: .1 .
L
30.1 d Ihope that we can get this bil over in th
e Senate. anknow, with the good graces of you folks a
nd the Governor,and the Senate', we may be abl'e to avert a tragedy
. There' (were 1600 peop'le whoée lives were effected
. One of the jr '. !members sits right in this very bcdy
, that's my presentcolleague from the eighteenth district
, Larry Diprima, whowas a victim in this defunk bank
. I am not going tospendt
because of th,-closing hours of the session, the time that;'this bill realiy needs to be explained
, but T think yourall warm hearted individuals
, your a1l have the responsibi ity
to vote your intentions on this bill. And I hope you'll
favor me with an 'aye' vote, Mr. Speaker.n
.Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from dook, RepresentativeCapuzi.''
Louis F. Capuzi: ''Mr. Speaker, M dies and gentlemen of the Hou e,
city savings'and loan is in my rwn district. I know liter lly
hundreds of people who have lost a' considerable amount' ofm6 ney in this bank. Now, I personally would appreciâte ev ry
.Z ''
$one of you if ou possible can, to vote for this type ofA
legislation. Thank you . ''
Rep . Arthur A . Teleser : ''Gentleman f rom cook, RepresentativeGranata . ''
Peter C . Granata : ''Mr . Speaker, la dies and. gentlemen of the Ho se .j'
.I heard the iml assioned plea by Representative Miller - Th s
ccity savings ap.d loan is just on the outskirts of my distr ct
.
Jpst surrounding it. And a1l of these poor people that lo ttheir lives saking through bunqling by the state departmen
. UQ...t..'a 's .reopening w'.xan they shouldn ' t it was closed.
And-- th-e-v.. x. . v ri?e :,f J h .# ',-i.(1,1: -zG, 1ï N E R A L A S S E M 1$ L Y' i' k;;;)):- r J ( .!- r. j) ' '* 6 r :j'' g. .# ,. S''TK A * Ei U R I t. L 1 U1 O 1 S. jo lr . ,z . z H ou s c: o er 14 t; p. n. cs cpl'r A.T $ v csxx i t; 1'*. ' % *%* Z
3l.
attorneys, who received half a million dollars in fees han ling
this. That is disgraceful. Ifs the worse p'erpetration' o
khe poor people'.of the community. I beg you to pass this
' bill, and let the Governor do what he wants.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Rayson.''
Leland H. Rayson: ''l would like to ask the sponsor a few quest ons.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser; ''He indicates he'll yield .''
Lelend H. Raysonl' ''Pete, the' theory of reimbursement is that t e
negl Lgence of the state was so gross? That it was the
approximate cause of these losses?''
P. Ja Miller: ''Why yes.''
Leland H. Raysonz ''Well, I mean didn't ah. . -Menzeg and his creembpzc e the people before the state was negligent or .the
state was a hand in the whole thing?''. '''
P. Miller: ''The state closed the bank and tlw n reopened it- '
Lelan H. Rayson'' ''Yes, they closed it and then reopened but
before that, were't these grimes perpetrated before that t me''
P. J. Miller: ''Not all of them?''
Lelend H. Rayson'' ''Not a1l of them. . Now in a sense, ah. . -th s
was criminal activity, would you sai?''P. J. Miller: ''On the part of the state, no. On.the part of t e
individuals runnings, yes.''
Leland H. Rayson: ''Thatls what I mean. éut there's not victim
of crimes 'that sqe should be responsible for. . . . .''
P. J..Mil1er: ''Well, I'm not saying . lYat wasn't part of the
court investigation, I think that the those that should ha e
... # @'+ ' ? '-n'-rh c E N E R A L A s s i:. M 1$ L Yk ;.,) . k j -(./, s.kr .. c..*); ù 1 svwvu o,z ,uu,wo,s.f .i' vt . . . .M .Y. 6 . q o j: o tl s c o F' 42 c F1 n t : s E pj T A 'r l v c sJ ' ' i . .. .1 . 4 't
32.
been held accountable one of the fu7itives that I said in
my opening arguments and the state....he was convicted on
another charge. What ever theory you go on, I'd welccme
your voteo''
Leland H. Rayson: ''Well, ah.m-my further curiosity thought, is
why hasn't somebody sued the state for their negligence?n
P. J. Miller: Perhaps they will-''
Leland H. Rayson: ''I see. but webre talking about a 10 year
period of time and there may be statute of limitations. W 11
anyway, Mr. Speaker, ah.e.well, I'm very much interested i
getting that money, and I represent many clients who want
their money. And that puts me in a very constraining position
' hink its a good policy on an overview for' tieand I don t t
state to gàt into this business in this particular institu ion-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from cook, RepresentaE i e
Glass . ''
Bradley M. Glass: ''Will the sponsor yield for a question?''
Reb. Arthur A.x Telcser: ''He indicates he wi1l.''Bradley M. Glass: ''Pete, as I understand it ahoooone of the
incidence of illedmd negligence by the State was the appro ual
of the bonding company for dity savings which was ah..min
fact not a sound company. Is that' statement true?'
P. Miller: ''Youtrœ orrect.''
Bradley M. Glass: ''The question I've asked, and I haven't had
anyone ah...answer it as yet, before came up for hearing
is cne of the questicns F think Representative Rayson star ed
to raise, and that is that we have a court of claims. The
. $..' -)' .w . state has perlnitted it self to be sued in that f ashion, and''''.bLLb jq>ge) G -p. N (f R A L A s s E M 1) L YIî t :: , .(k,, g'! > /)Q.. . . ; 1 s'r A'-rc o Ir 1 uu 1 pl o 1 s$ . n.a '. . /'s; k.e ' Housu o Iz n cpR cscol'r A..rl v csMe t Jtvjlsy *. .,. :.1
33.
I just wonder if that is an avenue open to the people who
7 i f thlost money ah...on account of the illerm d negl gence o
statea''
P. J. Miller: ''It would probably be too cumbersome for 16000
people, Representative Glass, to. . . .. .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Kosihski-''
Roman J. Kosinski: . ''Will the sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''He indicates he will. ''
Roman J. Kosinski: ''Mr. Miller, ah...you and I and the rest of
this 'assembly have been very concerned about people with
fixed incomes and have gone through a great deal of troubl
' to assist these elderly. Wouldn't yôu say, sir, that a gr at
umb f these 16 *000 peeple are people, aged people of f'xedn er O #
income who were essential wiped out in life savings throug
this negqi.gence of the state?n .
P. J. Miller: ''The vast majority of tiem.''
Roman Kosin#kiz ''Thankyou.n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Katz.''
Harold A. Katz: naepresentative Miller ah . .. I know your chairm n
of the Insurance CommiEtee and I wonder could you give an
estimate of the ahp..just even a rougb one, of the amoûnt f
money that ah.o.pnople in Illinois has lost ah o .aas a resu t
of insurance compctnies ah . - .êasualty insurance companies
going broke in Illinois over, for example, the last ten ye rs?n' P. J. Miller: ''400.000 policy owners. I can't tell you the am unt
.n
... NN : .1' '. : 6J,'' . .''Lr'' b, *q owk. h c pz , .k E jt h L. A s s E M B L Yj .. .. sI f %&.-j) ': . f ..c. '; 1 sv ax .: o s 1 uut,.t o ls$x
.
-.6- '(s',y.-.rr ..
6. ' wc, usc os scl-acsc-v.av.jv ss' .. . $ + *
34.HZrO1d A. KWYZ: Olfell, now what worriesme about your bill is#
Znd Y1%is XS What 5 reaily wanted you to coMnent On, I dln'
see' why we should discriminate in favor of just the deposi orsin the state savings and loan assoçiation
. It seems to me
that if we're going to do it for them, that we have to do
it for everybody who lost money as a result eE everydne of
those insurance companies that went broke. Now how can yo
say to one group we'll do i'f for you and not do it for a1l
those poor people who were policy holders and a11 of thos#
'
companies that went broke in the insurance field?''
P. J. Miller: ''Representative Katz, no insurance director ever
allowed an insurance company that wasn't solvent to go bacinto business.''
Harold A. Katz: '.Well, you know well' enough that the insurance
department in those dayY had been doing their job ah..otha
certainly from an investigàtion would have been apparent t at
those companies were very near the point of insolvency.''P. J. Miller: ''Granted, we passed some 57 bills since I have b en
the Chairman of the House Insurançe Commitee and doubt i
you'll ever again see those same things. We have bills he e
that require so much assets, but that doesn't compare with
this problem and has no similarity, I don't think -''
Harold A. Katz: ''We1l, just don't see why it isn't the samesituation of the innocent citizen who lost alot of money
as a result of some state officials who didnw't do the joband we are sorry we wish they had done during that period-'
P. J. Miller: ''Yes, maybe we.shculd have ébne this years ago, utsia.,.
. now we're facxng a sxtuatton hcre now , that has to e eorreeted.''..'Lx%% J g z x/' .4 > . 'r o Te y G (j N jï It A L A s s E M B L Yk.;.- yi. .? yï -
', 1v. -
sxxvs o, IquloloIsf . mc . ?.' %.t: . Houslu olr. REPIR trSUIq-rA'r 1 v (.:5
35.Rep. Arthur Au Telcser: ''Gentleman from eook
' Representative H de.''
Henry J. Hyde: ''We1l, Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the' House this presents one of the most unique ah
e . .situations
that I have ever encountered. The facts of the matter are
that ah.- alot of people ah. . oan awful lot of people, abou
13,000 people lost their life savings when they invested i
a savings and loan that had thq words on the door, under
state supervision. Now these people relied on tbat to puttheir money in the bank . Alot of these' people are ethnics
,
many of them don't read English , and many of them do. But
when you read those words on the door, 'under state superv'sione '
a certain confidence is instilled in you that everything i
going to be run on the square. Evidently this ccnfidehce
was very misplaced, because the state supervisions was woe ullyinadequate. As a matter of fact
, the laws that governed t e
regulations of savings and loans at that time were woefullinadequate. The examiners had no power to go beyond themere listing of a mortgage in the name of a trust
. They.,.,
couldn't find out if the beneficiary of the trust were off'cialsof the bank, they didn't have their own appraisers t
o go o tand see if the mortgage was phony
, and if the lot was wort. $1,000 whereas the bank had loaned a million dollars on it
The laws were inadequate, the supervision Nas inadequate.
And yet these people trusted in government and put their m neyin this savings and loan. Then when it got into trouble a d
was closed the circuit court of cook county ordered it to ereo' pened and a new bunch of depositors came in and put the r
a,.ofm.'.. money in the bank. Agaln, refilng somew a nievelFöF-t e/' ? ..b. ( -'D'> '- C G E N E R A L A S S E M 8 L Y? t; '- -
a ' k zk 't ) s v ..(s o g , ,. u. l ,. o l s, . ( 4j),,. ,? . .. a. . ) . ,,$.. t, . . . z sowsc orr I.cy.zevcssslvgqv,w'tsu *1., . . :+N
36. .
words. under state supervision. Now this second group of
deposi/ors were represente'd by counsel and their çounsel h sobtained for them a preference, so that the assets of the
'bank which approximate 12 to 15 million Jollars upon liqui aticn,
will go to pay off the post 1959 depositors. The pre-1959
depositors have nothing but tragedy and heartbreak to look
forward to unless we support them by reimbursing them this
money. Now crime did interv .ene, Oran Memzik, there's not
a question in my mind and other people were involved in gr at
criminal activities. This has been documented by the Illi ois
Legislative Investigating commission. But isn't it strang ,
not one person is ever been convicted of any crime or risi g
out of this ah...tragic series of circumstances. Memzik w s
convicted on a Eederal Charge, unrelated to this and the d y
that Mr. Saragosa was. going to interview him on a Federal''
Prison Farm in Pennsylvania, Mr. Memzik walked away and ha n't
been seen since. Now i*s true that we are not responsible
for Criminal intervention, but I submit that inadequate
supervision and inadequate laws ah . . .fertilized the ground
for the growth of this criminal act. Ah--.these people ha e
been led from pillar to post. They Yave gone to every law
enforcement agency known to man and they have received no
relief, they have received no encouragement until they cam
to this legislature. Now it may be siid that grain elevat rs
under state supervisicn have gone broke, that insurance co panies
under state regulation have gone broke, and is it the busiless
of the state to guarantee no losses to people involved in
.M7z'w those'situations? I submit that insurance companies are vastly.. y 1 ..y.s ': y'. ) ') .y ry j G E N E 11 A L A S S E 51 B L Yfj ït . ,.., y! sxavc os juul,.ols:.% ' ' .. .i4. .j k,. .=, .'.
s: . z
so o sjz o je j4 cp s c s u sj .r a.r 1 v c ss , . y. e .
different from lo sing your life savings. I submit that a
grain elevator is an investment to make money, whereas dep sits
in a savings and loan, constituting life savings, constitu ing
pension money are a morally different situation . And so t is
is unique and I submit it deserves the full support of eve y-
body in this House. Thank youe''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: HGentleman from cook, Representative
DVell.''
Raymond W. Ewell: ''Will the sponsor yield to a questionr'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi1l.''
Raymond V. Ewell: ''Mr.. Miller, I'm having a little difficulty
in viewing this action in terms of our free enterprise sys em
that I've heard to aspout so oft7ten . Ah..-would you not a ree
that perhaps this is just a risk that you take when you
deposit yo ur money. That the #eople had a choice of pl:c s
that they could have put their monçyz That they could hav
put it in a larger institution. They could have put 'it in
a bank? .-or .they could have put it into another number of
things. They could have put in the stocks and bonds- ''
P. J. Miller: ''Ordinarily yes, but when a state contributes ah. . .
to this negligence ah...I...I think we're responsibleo'' '
Raymond W. Dzell: ''Well, aren't we engaging in what might be
attributed here to be charity, rather than somethihg that
we owe? There's no legal obligation for us to give Ehis
money, is therea''
P. J. Miller: ''We11, youk/free to call it what ever you like,morally we owe it-''
z kyt 1 .nz''yM.b y .-;>- 't G E N E 11 A L A S S E 51 11 L Ytj j t . ; ' 2 s'rl're orz I uulNols' * ' * :4 o u s c o Ir R E F' :4 e: s e: N T A 'r 1 v c sXC77J 'Y''
38.
Raymond W. E<e1l: ''I'd like to address myself ahe- very briefl
to the bill. I'd like to point out to the members cf this
ah...just body that in light, we must be just before we
must be charitable. Now I've heard many of the apostles o
ah...the free enterprise system, and al1 the risks that pe ple
take in life. realize that there are...many times there
are tragedies in life many of Which the people have no con rol
over themselves. It is indeed regretable that people must
lo .se money, but Imigh: point out to the sponsors of this
bill, and the people who always say that we want to do thi
at the time I introduced legislation to put some of the
white-collar criminals away, meaning if you steal more tha
$15,000 you get no probation. We got alot of hoofs andtears from 'the other side of the aislev including this sid
of the aisle. think what we're talking about here is
criminal activity' that ought to indeed by punished and it
ought to be made sublect to the criminal law. I'd sug:est
that the people in this position are no different than the
pecple who are the victims of crime. And when we introduc
legislation on this side or some of the mqmbers introduce
legislaticn claiming that the innocent victim of a crime
having to do nothing with their own fault, but simply a
victim of a crime ought to be compensation at least to th
medical injuries, we get alot of boos and aho..and saying
that this isn't the function of state goveçnment. I would
like to suggest to the entire body that this is not a func ion
of state government. I will not oppose this bill because
:.ç''' ,,,. . it happens to be one of those things that is eonsldere,J% cr-o'y c iï x E R A L
, A s s i! M 1$ L. v.t 0... w( .;: t kt . ' -@ ' f '/xzy =, j s v a x. ja 4a v j u (. j oj o j sj.. v. lk , .v . , .- - t :;' ..'' xN + n o u s Ic o fr r, Er ! :4 c s Iï a 'r A 'r l v c s'% ltll .. ie% .
: .
39.
charitable. But nevertheless, q feel conàtrained in my
heqrt to ask the Speaker 'and the clerk also that I be reco ded
as only present. will 1ay in abeyance and when I see th t' the hearts of men are indeed turning charitable, too wi1
again aspouse their causes.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nThe gentleman from cook, Representati e
McAvoy.''
Walter McAvo.'y: ''Mr. Speaker and members of the Housey I belie e
that I would be remiss in my duty as a member of the Gener 1
Assembly of the State of Illinois if I did not get up and
join many of my çolleagues in favor of this legislation.These unfortunate people were duped into the program by th
words under state supervision as one of the previous speak rs. *
say. And I want to say to you today that the people who
had their money invested in' there had the thought that the
state of Illinois is one of the greatest states that they
ever lived in. And they would be protected under the laws
of the state of Illinois. The negligence of the laws of t e
. stateof Illinois are those that were in charge of. our ah..
the directors that they were the ones that were the cause
uf what happened to these unfortunate people. Now to have
you life savings taken away from you by ah.w.actually many
of them said it was a criminal procedure, probably it was.
But nobody has been convicted of it'other than Mr. Menzik
and that'was another charge as I believe. Under the state' supervision the director of financial institutions was to
see that these instituticns were properly operated. That
...a:xuxw, did not occur. Now, and another thing I say, I donlt think. lz '.'? -. ->r5:;' G E N E It A L, A s s E 51 11 L Ylt tfç 'a 't . k...y ) s.qav..: Oe.. , uu. ,q o.sty, . ,( ' u.': . . .'$ el o QJ S E o Ir R CP R r': S E NT A. '1 1 V IZSX mtjAtfgyk
40.
that there should Ye a sem raticn . T1Re people who came in
after 1959 shculd benefit what is coming out of the liquid tion.
These people who 'were in prior to that 1959 should get an
equal share, and kqr the passage of this legislation we wil
db something to halp them. And I would appreciate favorab e
consideration of this billo''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: OGentleman from Coo%,Representative
Taylor. '' . tes ,.
James C . Taylor : ''Mr . Speaker and ladies and gentlelaen of the
i House, move tht , . rrevious question . ''j 'Rep. Arthur A. Telcser:' ''Previous question has been moved. Al
those in favor signify by saying 'aye' opposed 'no'. The#
gentleman's motion prevails and Representative Miller to
close the debate.''
P. Miller: ''Well. Mr. Speakerw we'd heard al1 of the argume ts,
and I've attempted to answer most of the questicns, Ihope
ko the satisfaction. But I feel wedre obligated. Its a
' moral issfe,'and I,don't think that there's any members in
this assembl'y that I know you al1 to have the best intere t
and welfare of-your constituents and you know that whèn yo'go to sleep toright you'll sleep with a peace after you vo e
for this. Thank you-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Question is shall House Bill 8OO pass.
A1l those in favor signify by voting 'aye, and the opposed
' by voting 'no'. Gentleman.from Livingston', Representative
Hunsicker.''
Carl T . Hunsicker : ''>:r . Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of th .. .).. ..w
urj* 1 > t *' ''.'p$, vc'rr--- ' k kr f,''N E It A L A s s E 51 B L 'Y,: : . .j' >? i' k 7':$ ') k./S 'j
'
e( . 4- #. . j s'r a'rc o r.' ' t.u I wj o jsy,4. t r .7 ,=: . ' . ' x : ' j, o qj s s o rz s c e jp s s tc rg v gt v I v c sNv.. . R J d e
'
* *
4l.
uouse, I'a like to expzaln my vote. I sg mpatpaze wsth the
plight of the people who lost their savings through the fa'lure
of the city savings association of Chicago, but I also wel
remember the bank failures of 1933 when the same thing hap ened
and I lost a little of my money at that time also at a
' i forward to paystate bank. I didn t see the state com ng
me anything. This also included state banks as I said, an
should these people also receive compensation? What about
the rural folks who lo sp their income through elevator
failures in the state of Illinois. The distinguished majo ity
leader said that this was a different proposition, that
insurance companies and elevators are in business to make
money. That is true 1'11 grant you that but by the same
token so ake savings and lcans and banks. And I'm going t
have to vote 'no'.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman frcm Macon, Representative
. Borchers.''
Webber Borchers: ''Mr. Speaker and fellow members of the House.
Here is the Chicago Tribune of today. The front page it
says' some may lo ,ae on Arizona land. This will give us a
magnificent opportunity in ànother month or two, when the
legislation next goes into sessio/, to reimburse thesej 'i! people I see from Chicago who have lose an average of $4 5 0#
each in the acre developements calls Cocheese, something o
other. Well, I think we should continue our operation wit
the CTA, the Chicagos and the land deals, bank deals, scho l
distriets , I think its excellent we al1 just give them mon ys x..,.-)' ' w and maybe s<e shou ld just up and support them the whole way .,' : . ç % 'e ',/ ' .. J 1 G E N E It A L A S S E M 1$ L Yë # Q '' - '' t.p ) j sxsxc ojc , uulslols-h. .f-k/'
,,) 'y. ,'.t ) sj c,w ss c, s s ce s c s c sj v a. v , v c ss z. .
So, you just let % ur concience by your guide.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Sangamon, Representati e
Gibbs.''
W . Joseph Gibbs; '$Mr. Speaker and ladies and.gentlemen of the
House. as much respect as I have for the sponsor of this
bill and I know what he's trying to do here, how much he
is trying to do for these depositors, thfnk what we're d ing
here is that wesre setting ourselves up more or less as a
court and we have to determine whether or not the state wa
negH gent. Tn my mind there is no question that the state
was, but that's why we have a court of claims and I think t
should be handled that way. Because I don't think today i
we vote on this bill, and put it through we are saying
that we have determined as a iody that there was negligepc
involved. And I don'.t thinkqwe should do that. In .the sf tetode there is slightly under 1OO savings and loans, now t is
is hard to believe but there are a little under l0O saving
and loans in the state today that are uninsured. And thes
people don't know it, these depositors don't know it. And
the reason they aren't insured is because that's the way t e
1aw is written. Now the new savings' and loans do have to
have ah...insurance for their depositors. but I think that
if we did this then all those depositors in the unim lared
savings and loan would have the same èlaim if there would
be a loss.. I'm sorry that I have to vote against this but
the money is unbudgeted and I don't think that we can affo d
u v .:') * ' > < h, ..) . xa/ S ..' -D> c/ G E N E 11 A L A S S E 51 B L Yjjr ïti '''ë . , :y Lj Iç.ug'. . , r ;' s'r A 'rer o rz 1 t. ul N o 1 sl
.. 't.t ? +77'. ' *. . Hoty 5E o F F? E: P 1: L SE hI T A T I v E5
43.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser) ''Gentleman from eooke Representative
Peter Miller.''
J. Miller: ''Well, 'ifs obvious that I do not have the votes.
however, I'm not going to give up on this fight, and I'm
g'oing to ask permission of the House hereto postpone
consideration until after the election, and maybe we'll ah .
things will happ:n in our favor. Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Does the gentleman have leave? O-K,
House Bill 800 will be put on the order of postponed consi er-
ation. House Bill 3743...
Fredric B. Selcke: nHouse Bill 3743. An act to clarify the law
in relation to the effective date of laws which are enacte
by and pursuant to final action of the General Assembly.
Third reading of the bill.''
Rep .nArthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Fleck . ''
Charles J. Fleck: ''Well Mr. Speaker ladies and gentlemen of#
the HousY, kouse Bill 3743 is an attempt to implement theconstitution which was recently passed by clarifyâng the
effective date laws as set forth in the constitution by
statute. The amendment which was adopted last week is
rather complex and I will try to explain the substance of
the bill as briefly as I can. The dffective date, which
we presently have, October 1, will not be changed for any
legislation which is passed prior to Jul'y lst of any sessi n.
S ction 3 of the bill sets forth the passage of any lawse
bef ore July l of a session which might possible be returne
..,j!W& ,v . by tlze Governor by reason of a straight veto: a reduckion' 4L .? ( D-> Z G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B 1. Yf I ky ..'-'t ') .f .%.: () ) svwv.c o s , uu,rq o lshk - f .... -& */ ' + H O kl S E c F R E P R E S ï! N T /$ T I v E s' 'e. j .j . jex.'
44.
veto or an amendatory veto. And al1 this section does is
set fobth that th@ bill will become effective on October 1 t
of ah..ethat following-.-.following cctober lst after pass ge.
' Section 4 of the bill is where the probl*m has a risen dea ing
with effective date legislation. It deals with any vetoes,
be they straight vetoes, reduction vetoes or amendatoty
veto 'as, which are' returned before the bill is passed afte
July 1st. Under this legisïation for a striaght veto the
effective date would become the date that it becomes law,
there's a prior date set forth in the bill, or a later dat
if the bill sets forth. Under a yestored reduction the
dffective date would be when the bill becomes 1aw or any
later date. But an amendatory veto, the effective date
would be the following july lst if the House of Representa
tive and the Senate does not approve the amendatory veto .$
'' by 2/3 voke. Otherwise, it would become effective by majd ity
vote, excuse me, by majority vote if we set the recommenda ion
to the Goyernor the bill becùmes effective the followingi Julv 1st. If on the other hand, the mfomnendations areI '''
'
.
excepted by the Senate and the House by 107 votes, the bil
vould become effective 1 ater by becoming 1aw or at lat r
date set forth in the bill, which ever is later. There's
provision dealing with the individual specifics effective
date set forth in bills ând this really doesn't change wha
the law is presently, if a bill has :n effective date that
is set forth that date that is passed before July 1 will
become the ef f ective date . a specific ef f ective date
o' b.'la ' ,,,./ earlier that ' s sets forth , that date or the later date willZ7G *rwkrh c p! N E jt A j. A s s E M lJ L Y. ujjxy yoj , yji' l #< J. . 9 k 4.., , s v . v c o c ' u u I ,' o , sh
$k. - bL.k'>(?. ..n.t..). .. ? s ou s c o.s r. c ea u s c ,q v a.r $ v us*' .. . . 1 e%
45.
be the effective date of legislation. ask for a favorabl
vote, and I belO ve that this is going to take l07 votes f r
passage. Mr. Speaker, at this time I'd ask for a parlG .mentary
ruling.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Wel1, wedll give you that ruling befo e
we take the roll call, Representative Fleck, the mean tiae
the gentleman from cook, Representative Schlickman.''
gnnd E. Schlickman': ''Would the sponsor yield for a question?
As I understand it Representative the objection of tbe
legislation that was effective last year and the intention
of ydur bill is to.provide generally speaking for uniformi y
of effective dates. Is that correck.'''
#Charles J. Fleck: ''Ah..uniformity of effective dates, and the
thrust of this bill daals with veto measures which might
be returned to the Senate or the House.''
Eugene E. Schlickman: ''Alright, assuming for the moment that t e
objective generally speaking is uniformity of effectite
dates, the law presently provides, and I believe it would
provide under this, the a bill passed by the legislature
prior to June 30 without a specific effective date would
'become effective October 1. Is that correct?''
charles J. Fleck: ''That is correct.''
Eugene E. Schlickman: Now under your bill'as it was amended la t
week, as bill that passed prior to June 3O, but subsequent
to which the Governcr exercised amendatory .veto and the
legislature then overr8de the amendatow veto by sixty perc nt
vote, the bill then would become effective upon the overri ing
sr. :A'.,o by the legislature . Is that correct? '''Y 8 -,7n'ze)ï G E N E 11 A L A S S E $1 8 L Y4f' t : - . ( :f Uv, : ' +.. i 1 svav 1: o re I u u
1 ,s1 o 1 sj, ç . f u,.. . v , ,.L * ' ' . H otl SE o F R E P 14 LGt2 N 'r /$'1 1 v' I:G
Charles J. Fleck: Now when you say overrodethe amendatory Meto
we're going to get involved in mechanics here because then
it would be treated as a vetoes bil'l. You% either goingto except the recommendations of the Governor, or if yourgoing to overtide him your going to have to treat it as a
vetoed bil1..'
Eugehe E. Schlickman; ''Allright, lçts just take a simple veto.If the legislature overrides the bill it then becomes
effective upon the legislature has ovefriden the bill. Is
that correct? ''
Charles J. Fleck: ''Alright, that's correct.''
Eugene E. Schlickmzn: ''Now, why isn't provided in this bill th t
the effective date will be October l or when we overrode '
j 'the Governop s veto, or that date which comes later in tim ?''
Charles J. Fleck: ''We11, that is a situation that.o. owe though
that if we're going to override the veto, and its going torequire the extraordinary vote set forth in the constituti nethat would be within the keeping of the spirit of the cons itu-
ze .
tion that would be effective when it becomes law, or at alater date if that later d ate is set forth in the bill
. ''
Eugene E. Schlickman: ''Well, my only concern there is that you
. lose the general principle of uniformity. My understandin
was that all legislation: generally speaking, was to be
V fective October 1. Thereby making for ease to those who
are subject to our legislakion, there will be plenty of ti efor the legislation that we have passed to be reflected inr e'vised skatutes and therefore
, put on notice as to what i.,.. c'>J' 'o, the new law. WoulcR you exceqt an amendnlent in the Senate that..' yz'h > '-e.4 G jj N E jy A j. A s s (( M I 1 L Yf j 2-.::- ),.. tt .u -: a. ) svwv.u oe , aul 'q oIs$k.. ' .i.i? ,'..c7 ..). ... .
' s o u s c o s s c ea c s c ,u v , v ç v ss.*t 4. aa. . 1 . *
47.
would provide, that with regard to overrides of vetoes, th t
that làw would become effective October 1, or when we over ode
the veto which ever became later?''
Charles J. Fleck: ''Ah...yes..'
Eugene E. Schlickman: ''Thank youo''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Do'es th
tleman wish to' close the debate?''gen
Charles Fleck: ''I would first say, I'd ask if this measure
would require lO7 votes for passage Mr. Speaker?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Yes, it should, the chair has ruled
that this would take lO7 votese''
Charzés Fleck: ''Wel1, I think the members have been belabored
enough with this and I would just ask for a favorable vote ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Question is shall House Bill 3743. pas ?
Al1 those in favor signify by votinglaye', and the opposed' by voting 'no'. Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record
On this question there are l52 'ayesl no 'nays'. And thi
bill having received a constat tutional majoriky is hereby d -clared passed. House Bill 4264 . ''
Fredric B. Selcke : llilouse Bill 4264. An act to amend the scho l
cpde, third reading of the bill. .'
Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : ''Gentleman f rom Lee, Representative
Sha/iro . ''o .David C. Shapizm : :Mr . Dpeaker ladies and gentlemen of the H
ou. e,
House Bill 4264 as amended has txo primary purposes . It i
to encourage interested school districts to study the poss ble
application of the tweloe month schcol year to one or more'
..@ , of their attendence centers. Apd also, the second purpose. ' t-4 .b r .-.>. 7'e . c (ï N E 11 A L
, A S S 1: M 8 L Y'i' '. xv r ., .4.'5..,. y ) sv a x. t.: o v. I uu, x o fs$j .f ( )y. .f . j-jocyss o s ja cjyrkjuscxxwx jv uss . &v N w' ,. ., '. & *
48.
to provide state fund for the reimbursement of transiti na1
costs to those school districts that, after completing the'r
feasibility study, they decide to go into a twelve mon th
school program. It is believed that the approach suggeste
by the bill will encourage school distri.ct to conduct appr p-
riate research activities including assessing the commuhit es
attitude koward this zype of program before undertaking an
type of full year school program. It is not intended to
inerease the number attended by eaçh student, nor is it
based on any presumption regarding the educatidnal or
financial advantage or disadvantages of twelve month schoo '
operation. The bill is intended to facilitate each local
district in making an informed individual determination fu ly
considering al1 local conditions and atfitudes without
diverting funds away from the ongoing constructional progr ms.
As the law now'reads school districts can go to a twelve
month school program, this bill will provide them a small
fe f r making feasibility studies and if theamount o money o
deeide to go to the program allow them transitional mon i œ .
The apprlriation for this bill is included in the General
OSPI appropriation bill. And I would urge a favorable
Vote.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is them any discussion? Question is
shall House Bill 4264 pass? All thosein favor signify by
voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have a11 voted
who wished? Take the record. On this question there are
l34 'ayes', one 'nay'. And this bill having received axvv z't A * Ij.
,' 4 * b * -z.a:')$ c E N E It A j.y A s s E M IJ 1. v' ; .J...J -( Jo 'oh'x,. : . ' ; ; h j 1 j s v a v u o s ; u u j pj o j sh. ' ..( pf ...z'. . - . / s o qj s s o s ja c p ja c s c sl v A. x 1 u c s,%1 , - jp.
49.
eonstitutional majority is hereby declared passed. HouseBill 3768.'.
'' 11 376*8 A bill for an act creati gPredric B. Selcke: House Bi .
Illinois municipal financing agency. Third reading of th
bill.''
R&p. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook , Representative
Shea'''
Gerald W. Shea; ''Mr- Speaker, I wonder might have leave o
the House ah.oathis bill and House Bill 4576 are interrela ed
bills. 4576 the ehief sponsor if Representative Randolph,
and we've discussed this and he had not objections if heheard the bills together. These are a package, tbese two
' bills that were introduced on behalfbof the state treasure
Allen Dixono''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there any objections? Hearing
noneoo..vGenileman from cook, Representative Duff, do you
object sir?''
Briand B. Duffu '!At this point in time I am just in the proces
of looking this bill up, if the sponsor wouldn't mind, and
I have not had a chance to discuss it with him, I would li e
to remove my name as co-sponsor.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Which. of the tw'o bills, Sir?''
Brian B. Duff: ''Either one I'm on...I'm on the first one 3768.'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''O-K Gentleman has requested leave to#
'
have his name removed as sponsor of House bill 3768. Are
there objections? Hearing none the Journal wil: so show.
Ah-..now are there objections to the gentleman hearing Hou e' 'ê'I- .'.- klls 3769 and .c'Jh - 4576 as a tpackage? Ilearxng none win,%.h ,.sca'--r B ' y; . c 19 h j, a j- a s s j, M IJ 1- v..1' :., j. e-.- , ;s. ,3; )s4
.t . . J; svavs o s I uu,aols$$ . (k.,,z . -r,?..-. . ' . , cawss o s n c e ,? css o,x sv , v csN T. ps+
5O.
the clerk please read House Bill 4576 a third time.''
Jack O'Brien: ''House Bill 4576. Bill for an ack to provide
for alternative authorization of rations and sale of gener 1
obligation bonds. Third reading of the bil1.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Shea.''
Herald W. Shea: ''Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the Hous ,
These two bills present to you a plan that would authorize
the State Treasurer c.f %he Stateof Illinois to sell bonds. @
and use that money to buy the bonds of local units of gove n-
ment. This hopefully would lek the units of local governm nt
through' the assistance of the state of Illinois issue an
sell their bonds at a lower rate of intem st. This has bee
done in oèher states and it has helped local taxing distri ts
because of the better rate of the state bonds. I would
solicit the support of the Houso, and hopefully try to ans ec
. any questionsa''
Rep. Arthur A*. Telcser: ''Is them any discussion? Gentlpman fr m
cook. Mr. Bluthardt-''
Edward E. Bluthardt: *Well, Mr. Speaker and members of khe Hou e
as I arise in opposition to' these two bills, you'llnote th t
House Bill 4576 eliminates the Eop rates ceilings place
on loeal government by statute when the bonds are to be
sold to a skate financing agency. What this bill proposes
to do is to create a new state agency, called the municipa
financing agency for the' purpose of purchasing bonds from
local taxing units. You would think from the proposal tha
u.f*w.. there was a fiscal time for local goverment to se1 on s in. : ' h'- .e >,1, : e..u T tzj G E N E lt A L A S S E 51 11 L Y( ; % J û-k : ; ! ) - 'k4 , : ) s v. . x e: o r.. , u u t ,q o ; s( - .h$q,. . k . ? , r'l- .N'.. . .. te&
5l.
Illinois, where in fact that is not so at all. We talk
about other states, first let me say while there has been
no showing whatsoever of any demonstrable need for the
creation of this agency, there is to my knowledge only two
other states in the entire union that has such an agency.
One of them is the state of Vermont, which can hardly be
compared with that of Illinois because Illinois has at lea t
60 times more ' 1or:'ql bonds being sold annually to those of
h tate of Vez='ont. There is no similarity whatsoever.t e s
Again the other state that has adoptd a bond bank so to sp ak'
(is the state of New York , and that was recently adopted an
has not been proven. T might also point out Gat just prio
to the ah..adoption of the bond bank act by the State of
New York, the S'Lùte of New York's general credit rating wa
reduced by one of the credit rating houses of this country
One of the leading credit ratihg houses. Now if there wer
a need that world be one thing, but there is actually'no n ed
in the entire state here for the sale of bonds. My featè ..
here and I khink:.its the fear of other leading officials o
this state, that the creation of this agency would indeed
affect to a degrçe and would be a rather retarding effect,
on the fine credit rating that our bonds in this state hav .
I think that we would be making a ver'y serious mistake to
adopt this act. .T Chink its an act that perhaps the the ah ..
state treasurer 'nas been going around txe' state talking ab ut,ànd promising to pass 'and maybe inhis mind it is a good ac
.
But I point out to you that not only will this have a bad
ss. :l' lt<a . ..F' b ''-r-ask '. ''* ) ' ; 7.I E 1). A L, A s s E M B l Y, z :.: .. i . ; :> . . -( i sl .nw 't . ? e'C ' : t 1 s .r ,. v c o rz 1 u. u I 'q o I sy. . ' t'r, ?..n:? .'. .' ; , .,q, sc o s s, ser. c su s, v av , v cs. ., - ..sv
52.
effect. on state credit, that is contrary to the direction
this state is going. This..o.presently they have just
passed a bill that would allow direct..omwell let me put i
this way.-..at the time the Gcveror of this state is propo ing
to eliminate the Illinois Building Authority and in favor f
a direct state borrowing, and we know that if that bill pa ses
in the Senate now, and that thia is n ot permitted under th
1970 constitution, the purpose of that was to save interes .
Now we suggest that we creafe a new agency borrowiang with
the name of this statp, and with a higher rate of interest,
and this indeed will effect the general credit rating of t e
state of Illincis. There are so many reasons that this bi 1
should be sent back, be held over for a more thorcudwh stud
that in my opinion it woûld be a great mistake to adopt' it
. at this time . '' .
'' Gentlelaa tl f rom cook # ' Bepresentative 'Rep. Arthur Telcser:
'CIZSS*C
Bradley M. Glass: ''Will the gentleman yield for a questiona'' .
yep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi1l.''
Bradley Gl4ss: ''Ah..-Representative Shea, ah...as I underst nd
this bill the money that ah...the Illinois Municipal Finan ing
Agency would have would be raised through the sale of bond .' Is that right? Ahe- what kind of appropriations would the r
be ah.o..would-.-would be involved? I notice ah- vthe
agency is authorized to ah-o.issue bonds or notes in an
accurate amount not to. exceed $300,000. Ah...would there
. be 'an a rxeations ah- from the state funds? All...and.1..,1-21.6- .t..:
. .1 ? .j -3,.-..6. : G E N E jt A L A S S E 51 B L Y' j kf '. & ' s 'tï .l ? . t. !; .) svxvu os , uuIslo,sj î .ë , u, - .5't; . 1 ' H okl :; IZ o F' fR IZ PR IJSE h1 T A.T I V ESl fz .%*
53.
If so what kind of figures are we talking aboutz''
Gerald W. Shea: i'Well, think, doesn't ib say $300,000,000
Representative Glass?''
Bradkey M. Glass: ''Would that be the ah. .ceiling then?''
Geratd W. SHea: ''That would be the total amount of bonds the
agency eould sell. Then it would turn around and buy the
bonds of local units of government, and the income..-.the...
the interest on those bonds wculd. hopefully, ah...be enou h
to pay the interest on the state bonds. Its kind of an in
and cut wash situation where the interest that the local
units of government pay would be about the same rate of
interest that the state sells their bonds for, which hopef 11y
is, this last set we sold were something like 475 or 493.1'
Bradley Glass: ''We1l, I'm having a difficult time understan ing
aha..where the large savings is. Ah...Representative Blut ardt
indicated it, and I think its correct, that there is a pre ty
good market at the present time for municipal bonds, and
ah...how mpch o/ a savings ah...in percentage points, youanticipate from a bill like this?''
Gerald W. Shea: ''We1l lets assume for a minute a municipality#
could save a half or a point/ Ah- .-ycu know, one percent'
or a half of a percent. have in ly district at the pres nt
time a water commission khat is trying to sell $400,000 wo th
of bonds. And my understanding is the best they can sell
them for is a 7% rate of interest. Now if this municipal
finance agency was ah . ..goi'ng now ah...they could. . -the...
sell their bonds to this agency and if the agnncy was sayi g. t!g/ A h'; t;'i 7)' ' .),). c If x E R A t
. A s s E M 13 t. v? ' - .) ,a(' G,ri>.' t., 72 . ...:. 4. s;. j s v a v s o p. 1 u u, , s ta I srk..f,s'.. . 'i:'k'-y;r,,.-7;., . '.!::,.. 82;7, . . . ,.# M k . '' è, o t) S E o F R EPa ESE: NT AT 1 V ES. 411. xssl. '
54.
. . .paying 4.93, that would be a savings of about 2:t to tha
unit of governmente''
Bradley M. Glass: ''Well, I understand that but I'm just wonder'ng
ah.-.from experience and apparently the two other states t at
have initiated this ah...do you have any figures on ah...
savings? In other words, how do we know we can do better
tbrough this method than ah-m.on the general market?''I
Gerald W. Shea: ''Well as...I think we find out from some of o r#
commission, ah- .there are units of local government that
can't even sell theira..their bonds now, and they can't ge
a raking on them. Ah...at least we would be in a positio
to some of those units of government ah-..to help them sel
their bonds for the thing... This no new authorization n
dollar amounts for any unit of local government . Its stri tly
voluntary, the unit may go this route or it could go direc .''
Bradley M. Glass: ''Would the ah..mah...directors of....I know
the State Treasurer would be the Cheif Administrative'offi er
and therp- are four other directors. Ah-..are there any
compensations provided for them?''
Gerald W. Shea: ''No. there is not.''
Bradley M. Glass: nThank you-''
A thur A Telcser: ''dentleman frol Boone RepresentativeRep. r . p
Cunningham.''
Lester Cunningham: ''Mr. Speaker, would the sponsor yield to a
couple of questions?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''H'e indicates he will.''
Lester Cunningham : '' Representative Shea , is there anything to
q...ee.l'r ,v' . stop ah . . .tlle three large .' parts of government in I llinois ., 4 b e-r?>%': G jj x jï jl A j. A s s Iy, M IJ L Y. t . . ..'( '' ît i' lk:- .L -. ( .s, g
'
.(. j)tcz..-.,.s ;. ) s'l x-r ct o F. $ uuI eq o 1 sk.* (%* . ' . v. ej o ta s E.: o s' r4 e: e n u s c :4 'r A. 'r 1 v c s*&,tx1p.. xe
55.
namely the city of Chicago, Sanitary districts and the
School Board whose coming in right off the bat and paid up
the whole three hundred million dollars?''
Gerald W. Shea: ''We1l# first of a11 there's a limitation on th
amcunt put ah.- that they can buy from any one unit of
government that's Representative Bluthardt's amendment. I
think one of the other things is that, like the city of
Chicago just sold some tax and dNssipation warrants and the
sold them at 3.15, so thqt the rate that the state is payi g
is a little bit higher, so I doubt if they woul'd want to
come in and ah-..under that kind cf a situation.'' This, as
said before Representative Cunningham, this is a volunta y
thing and its really designed to help those units, and pre er-
ably smallèr units, that cannot go and get their money as
cheap as a ah....a municipality thatls got a triple A rati g.''
Lester Cunningham: ''Representative Shea, you know that I asked
for a fiscal note, and we found it it was already on the b 1l.
Would youxdare-..T'd like to have yqu, if you would, tell
the members what your thinking of the cost of this bill wo ld
bee''
Gerald Shea: ''Well, I haven'i got the B.O.B-'s ah...analysi
with me. But if ycudve got you'can, you know....''
Lester Cunningham: ''We1l, if I may, if you coG ; answer this.
First the state has a moral obligation to make up the defi ienc-
ies in the reserve fund. Should local government payments
the agency be unsufficlent to maintain the reserve fund
at its legal required level, the state would be morally
x.:.H( A'>..I.' x - x/ -' .b j -7,-0rA G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y, ; y-: . y x jj': 5. ($X J , - i -. . ?j s .r A x. c o s l u u I sj o I s. t / 'rr . . . 'i
. , yjousE o p' Rlcrxauslz a'r-'rl u cstt ( se
'
p. k. 1* .
56.
obligated, but not legally required to appropriate fund tc
make up these deficiencies. Since failure make such an
appropriations would potentially have a negative impact on
the state eredit...credit rating. and thereby causing iner ase
in future borrowing costs, and most responsible staff woul
robably be for the legislature to appropriate and fund thP
def iciency. ''
Gerald W. Shea: ''Well, Lesp I can understand why the BOB macle
such an analyiis, but you've got to remember that you'vel
got to get an appropriation from this general assembly to
go ahead and pay the interest, and we will certainly kncw
how much is being produced by the bonds that are bought.
That's number one. Number two, ah.-.you can ah...if ...if
some of the municipalities are in derault this bond, th n
yes, we may have to use some state money ah...but I think
we have an obligation someplace along the way, to make sur
that local government is liable.n. .ALester Cunningham: ''Wel1 Representative Shea, you probably
read the papers like I do, and on the tube and so on....I
believe I read somewhere where our Treasurer has stated ah...
that ah....24 or 25 times-..that our state is financially
broke. Now, I understand'that he is the person who is
asking for this legislation that, I can understand how he
can say it's brokee and the next day come and ask a bill to
be passed, and set up a new agency thathas no idea what th
'cost wil; be to the taxpayersv''
Geralk! W. Shea: ''Wel1, I don't think the Treasurer is saying t e7. hs ) f.w
, t fs?.sJ ,-D% lg G E N E R A L A S S E 51 8 L Y' I % v vkj ty , .1 k ,ç r. . Jy ) s v. a v t: o s j u u 1 s cy , si'''ty,. ; b g r: . 4 . '* f . pl ousc o Ir r? clvucslzslv Ax I v cs
57.
the state is broke. think what he's saying is that we
are going to have a tremerzdous cash fLow problem around th
first of December, is what he said last. . . .I don't think
Alan inferred that the state was broke, but I think he did
infer that ah..we may have some cash flow problems. And I
think that the Governor, through the BoB and his fiscal
manakement, has been trying to regulat e the flow of money1
in and out of.the state Treasury.''
. 1 .Lester Cunningham: ''One final question, Gerry. How many local
enterprises, or business, do you think will be put out of'*.f
business with this bill passage.''
Gerald W. Shea: ''Well, I don't think it will put any local peo le
out of business. Ahoe.this is a11 disoretionary. The ioca
units of governmcxnt can go to the state, they're not requi ed
to go. There is nothing mandatory in it . So that the on1
time a munic'ipality would be going to the state is when i
coùld save some money.''
Rep. Arthur A.-Telcs'er: uGentleman from Knox, Representative. 2
McMaster . '' 'k' '. . k
A. T. McMaster: ''Ah..kwi11 the sponsor yield to a few more que tionsa''
Rep..Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he'11.. . . .''
A. T. McMaster: ''Ah.y.-Gerr# you made the remark a short time a othat aha-one of your taxing bodies was attempting to sell
bonds. what $400.000 dollars worth?''
Gerald W . Shea : ''Yes Jir . ''
A. T..McMaster: ''And was going to be required to pay T$ intere t.
Isthat correct? ''
. a 1 . ' * 'v xx% ISJ J '.J. , .. N ze N ',... r k 4. : --l-;p c; c i z , Nr .l! R A L A S S E M B L Yt 2 < -1 . :4 '>'>
v a .y. u o s j u u j m o y sj j-q ..y..: . J . . . , s
V 'Q' : .*' . *, . i: ta u s c o e. a c e 14 s: s s: sl 'r x 'r , v e: s%1 4, ..,. . $h%*
58.Gerald W. Shea: ''Yes
, Sir.''A. McMaster: ''Ah
g .Gerry, it would seem to me that ah. . etaxi g
. authority probably had a very poor Yond rating. Wouldn'tit seem that way .
''
Gerald W. Shea: ''I don't think it does. It has bonds out for
30 years and never defaulted on them.''
A. T. McMaster: ''Well, but certainly ahv wGerry, when a taxing
body goes in to sell bonds they are rated on an A , AA, AAA
rating?''
Gerald W. Shea : .'I think you can request to get a rating, I
don' t think its automatic . ''
A . T . McMaster : ''We1l. probably not automatic, but I think any
J ' itaxing body wishing to aell bonds certainly wishes to ete netheir rating, because I think this determines to a very gre textent the interest rate they would b
e required to pay. Ah. . .
Gerrye what concerns me in this is that we will have a numb r
of taxing bodies in the state of Illinois, and you know thaI'm insupport of local government as strongly as anyone dow
Ahere during my period here
. But we will have one group ofltaxing bodies coming to the state to ah-.-have their bondsbacked, or to ah
. - ohave the state purchase the bonds forthem and this gropp of taxing bodies. will be those
,that hava very poor financial rating due to their ability to repay
.
And we will have coming to the state, only those who are
in the neighborhood of five, six, seven percent ah
. . pbodiesof government. And I think.we will have a very very poorahok.or a high interest rate coming to us, and this is what
XXOUY YY*O '..%'A'.o Concerns me;..' pistj. z'z:g)kx j j; jj. ajy,A v. (e-.'-: G E N E R A L A S S E MJ'e-)' . ,..,.t) svax.s o,z I ss-lsols
t ju . . .tx , <. . f . (Y H O tl ï; i: Ch F R E P T''l E: t; C N 'r A Y I V L5 SN: .,, ' .x. '
Gerald W. Shea: ''Well. first of a1l you've lot to remember tha
this ag'ency is not required to buy al1 the bonds that come
before It certainly is required to use sound business
' and fiscal pclicies ah..ain determining what bonds it buys.''
A. T. McMaster: HWel1, I wculd feel, or certainly hope that th's
would hold true, derry. But find it very difficult for
a state office to'ah . - mturn down one taxing body and ah...
approve another one, they would get involved, I quite sure,
in some political things. And for this reason it seems to
me that this would be a very difficult thing to administer,
and I would certainly urge a no vote against this. ''
Rep. Xrthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Lechowicz.''
Thaddeus S. Lechowicz: ''Thank you' Mr. Speaker, ladies and gent emen@ .
of the House, I want .to congratulate the Sponsor for his .'' far sightedness in this type of a bill. Being a member of
the municipal problems comission for the past three years,
ahd in copjunction being co-éhairman of that commission, w 'thRepresentative Pat North and Representative Bluthardt Erom
the House, every meeting weeve attended this past year welve
hpard the pliêht of the various mun'icipalities have diffic lties
selling their bonds on the market. Based on,many reasonsbut primarily as the other Representative pointed out
, thei
property taxes being at a limit, and their bonding as well
I think that this is a step in the right direction and in
turn I would imagine that if everybody supports this type
of legislation, would 'commend the sponsor, and in turn I
. ' , .,.. e keve XS WQ. re Ieve SOHIO O Y àe Q - ICu CIOS ey arez .%% V i/jl3-*-%..4',, ? $ >. j .c' 'Nri..n - ( ) (; E N E I t A L z & s s E M B L Yrj zc.r .. r,ur jjt f- )& ,. j J s 'r A 'r tn o e' , t: u I N o I sï
. t.,z' =.''' ' sousu os' rvse-sslls,.r ,x., v es.x . . .#ru . . l*%.a
60.
facing in their down state yunicipalities in finding prope
bonding procedures, having the state help out and broadep
the base for a good equitable rate. I urge a yes vote.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? If not,
the gentleman from cook, Representative Shea to close the
debate.'' .
Gerald W. Shea: ''Kr. Speaker, ldclies and gentlemen of the Hous ,
I wouldearnestly solicit the support of the House. I thin
this is good legislation. This allows units of local qove n-
ment to sell their bonds at a more favoràble rate. It wou d
. do something to ah..-reduce their interest costs, and in t rn
reduce our local tax burden. I'd solicit the support of t e'
House . 't
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Question is shall. House Bill 3768 and '
4576 pass? A1l those in favor signify by voting 'aye', ,
theopposed by voting 'nof. And the clerk will take two :i' !roll calls. Gentleman from cook, Representative Bluthardt ''
' Edward E. Bluthardt: ''Mr. Speaker, in order to explain my vote
let me say first of all that the only unit of locql govern
ment that would use this agency if it comes into being are
those units who are in difficulty ah. . aunable to sell theibonds on an open market. And those are very few if any#
in the State of Illinois. I would predict thought, that
because of the pressure put upon this agency in the genera
legislature, General Assembly, aho...because of the high
interest rates that will co'me about as a result of this
agency coming into being, that pressure will be put upon tl ose
..'JA'< with good credit yatings, those with good bond ratings, those. .' ,ï- b' zcca-kh G p
. x p: R A t. A s s li: M u t. v( r k) 1 : '' k--z kh, sv a x c o s , uu , s o ,s-ï c , ..yyjt ' J .% .z*. ' . . . ) .%.V . . H o kl sc o F ,4 E e r: c sc pl 'r A'r t w cs
..RIb . . %B*. tu
. II
6 1 .
with double A ratings , to use this a'gency . And that it wi 1. become mandatory in the future . Now again, I say that the e
has been absolutqly no demonsfration of a need f or this ty e
f a ency in t'he state 'of ' Illinois . We heard one gentlemao g
s/ho was co-chaim an of the Illinoiù Municipal problems co issicn
say that weive heard of the difficulty of local government
in selling municipals. I serve on that c' ommission, I thin
' .ldve made more meetings than he has and I've heard very
little about that. Maybe a few years back we ran into som
difficulty, but we got around that by raising interest rat s
by stetute. Now I predict: ladies and gentlemen, that tho e *
poor municipals that are going to come in and ask for the '
. sale of those bonds to this agency will be paying WA of mo e.
That's what the on6 bill will.permit. Whereas those who h ve
a good credit rating will be able to go out and sell their
bonds at a cbmpetative rate, mqre like 4 1/2 or 5% and the e 'would be no real' savings to any muhicipality as a result o
these two billsk''xr '
Rep. Arthur A. Teléser: ''Have all voted a o . o .Gentleman from St. 1:Clair, Representative Krauseo'' t
. I' James G. xrause: ''well Mr. speaker and ladies and gentlemen o !
. '
$the House I think its about time that the State of Illinoi i
I. 1moved in this direction . There's so many communities down !
!state that are having difficulties selling their bonds
. I . :i'
t know whether they appeared before the Muncisal Probl s idon'
rCpmmission œ not. but 1. know there is much difficulty in I.
;' selling the bonds down there. And not only that, when the 1as'. ISSUOS ar* Sma JRore S no 9 y Wan S O uy - e On S. 1' ax %; . .h ''s' ,z ' . . ./ ! ? j ----?> ..h G ,: N E R A 1, A S S E M B L Y
...q t' '. '; ; -k. :21 .j wn'''kw.s ' .: t . sv a. v c o c ' u u ' ,4 o 1 s7 t
.:.? '. '-'' '-- ' - . yusc os scerecscavxv'vuss: -. . .î.ft i. :' s. . 1 e '
62.
this gi/es the concunities a chance to come into the state
and consolidate their bonds and get a better rate on their
' bonds and get their bonds on the màrket. I think this is
good legislation. I think this is something we should hav
done a long time ago, and I vote 'aye'- ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: eGentleman froM Madison, Representativ
Calvo.n
Horace L. Calvo: ''Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the Hou e,I don't have much to say about this
, I know wedre in the
closing hours of this session, T don't want to take up alo
of time. But its amazing to me that we have been consider'ng
in this House, and by the way I voted for it, legislation
y 'that would freeze the monies avail ble to municipalities f r
the next two years in taxes. And here we have something w
can do for municipalities if they wish to avail themselves tothis, th'at really costs nothing. And Ifm amazed at the re
lights there' that aren't willing to give the municipalitiewho need help in financing, a little state help in that fi ancing
without any cost to anyone. The only vocal opposition to
this bill that I've found, and I served on the sub-committ e
and I know I received a lot of letters as a result of serv'ng
on the committee and sub-committee 'that considered this bi 1,
where the fiscal agents, the bonding authorities who felt
that they might lose some mcney because the munieipalities
didn't have to pay them to sell their bonds, but the state
would help to sell that at. a lcwer interest rate. I urge
your favorable support of this bi1l.''
x%% ,; T)a., ' y -> * b
. : ,e-> 'k) G E N E I t A L A S S E M B L Y/i' Qèè '$: ' (,'x:; i ! sx avu os ! uu,,m ols- na u . ty ! .,(o,g rr.. . . ,' s ou sa o r.. ), ses cs tc s a. x.r . v E sXl dr O ' s%* Z. q. v . %
63.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have allp...Representative Bluthardt,
for what purpose do you rise, Sir?''
Edward E. Bluthardt: ''Parriamentary inquiry, Mr. Speaker. In
as much as there is a eontingent guarantee by the State fo
any bonds that may be sold through this agency or to th is
agency or any obligation incurred by the agency, what woul
the...-wouldn't /he vote necessary to place that obligatio
upon the state take l07 votes, Mr. Speaker?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''O-K could you wait just a mcment#
'
Representative Bluthardt, and we'll peruse the bill and ta k
to our counsel.n
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Gentleman from cook, Mr. Shea- ''
Gerald W. Shea: ''Ah...Mr. Speaker, in light of my conversakion
with you and Mr. Bluthardt, 'in the fact my lawyer is pot
available at this ppint for, interpretation of a certain ,se tion
' of the constitution , I'm wondering if I might have leave'
of the House to take these two bills out o/ the record rig tXOW ? î'
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, is there objection? llearing n ne
then we will take ah.yothese two bills out of the record.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''HouseyBill 4608.''
Jack O'Brien: ''House Bill 4608. A Bill for an act making an
appropriation from the Transportation Bbnd Fund. Third
reading of the bi11.''
Rep. Arthur A.. Telcser: HGentleman from cook, Representative
scariano.''
h iano'' ''Thank you Mr. Speaker/ May I have leave toAnt ony Scar' r',., have 4608 and 4609 considered together. They are companton,J'''-% h -
,vx-,,;.. c s x E Ik A t- a s s E M u L v, S ;j Qy'''''w '. jj%..j lj sv a x.c o rr 1 uu j x o I sjslt. s',. .- ,r. ,' <tz*' .- ' ' Housc tiyr ia ce e tusc-'v Av t u cs
wftf &*%*' 2,1.,
64.
bills?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there objections? ' Hearing none
will the clerk please read Hoùse Bill 4609 a third time.''
Jack O'Brien' ''House Bill 4609. A Bill for an act to amend
pection of the lnuansoortation Bond Act. Third reading of
the bi1l,''
Reo. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cooi, Representative
Scariano.''
Anthony Scarianoz ''Mr. soeaker and ladies and gentlemen of the
House these bills were presented to me by the minority 1ea ert : 'T
who Hh..-indicated to me something I didn't know, that the e
was a shortage in the transportation fund of the office of
the Superintendent of Public instruetion for reimbursing
schools. Their séortages and their transportation funds.
I didn't know that any such shortages existed, but I m tol
by the Supèrintendent of Public Instruction that a shortag
exists in the Transportation Fund of every school district
in this J.tate, that is every legislative district, there a e .schools, I want to make that clear; I don't mean every sch ol
district I mean that there is a shortage in certain pchool
in every legislative district in this state. And if this
shortage is not made u>,, then these schools must take mone
from the Education fund, which is the operating fund of th
different school' districts, and thereby the education fund
which goes usually to pay salaries and supplies, books, an
.that sort of thing is'going to suffer. Now the shortage
happens to be roughly about 6 1/2 million dollars. The mo ey. v Arxr . WQ. e êà en lV pTt R e a . . . ra nspor a l.On On < un w qIc i S.. %. ..:J o. . ,.Q . 8 e'pv %) (; r :' N E It A j. A s s E 51 B L. Y/ y yïtst (
: ,. jy j; jui'h' i- xj / s'rA'rc o Ir ' uuI Nols. . tJ$ k rts ' ' . '($ ' + u o kl G E o F n E P R E s t.: N 'r A. *r 1 v E s* ' o z.. . ' * *
65.
the fund into which the $900.000,000 that we passed by way
of a bond issue last year, that is going to contain the mo ey
and that is House Bill 4609 permits us to take that money rom
the Transportation Bond Fund. The money is there, and as
indicated every legislative district has schools which nee
this money desperately because of a miscalculation in the
amountof money that the Superintendent of Pnblic Tnstructi n
w ould have to give by way o'f reimbursement for the differe t
school districts in this state that are required to transp rt
their children to and from school. I urge your support of
the bill ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser! t'Gentleman from cook, Representative
Peter Miller.''
P. Miller: ''Wel1, I....Mr. Speaier, I wonder if Representat veScariano would answer a c'oumle of questions?'' .
-
' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.'' '
P. J. Miller: ''Representative Scariano, do you'represent any
'of these school districts a: an atkorney?''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Representative Mann: for khat purpose
do you risee sir?
Robect E. Mann: HPoint of order, Mr. Speaker, that's not re1 œ nt
and the Gentleman knows it. And ah...its just an attempt
to embarrass him and I don't have to.....n
P Miller: ''RepresentatiVe Mann, he can answer for himself,
I believe.''
Reo. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Choate, for what purpo e
do you rise, Sir?u
'' s%% (k f :2 '... (. .. a.:/ t' yt ) .J 'V7N 1 G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Yî. ..21LL t) - J i. b.;ji L). , ..4.jk; ' y ' r7 . . . .! p H o u 5 E 6 F 14 Epa t: sfc NT A T' I u csx :1 IJ : 4. . v > :
66.
Clyde L. Choate ''lusk a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker. fthis conversatiomqs.about to go to the direction which it
seems that it might, let me explain to this House the reas n
that Reoresentatiga Scariano is handling these bills. Its
because I gave him the bills and asked him to handle them.
Now I don't know who he represents as far as his 1aw pract'ce
is concerned, but-'f:did know of his service as far as the f9 .
educational probpsomè are concerned on this side of the ais e.
.And when the Superintendent of Public Instruction gave me
these bills to dsooense as far as our membershio is concer ed,
I am the one that'gave these two bills to Representative
Scariano and it was a suggestion of myself and other s conc rned
tbat the money corkîp from the Bond Transportation 'Program
rather than from General Revenue. Simply denoting that th's
was a transportation item, we asked for it to come out of'
there. Now if there's anyone that desires to know as to w y
Renresentative scariano is handling these bills, please bee '
jjadvised Vhàt I asomd him e handle them.
Reo. Arthur A. Telcsexec: 'Gentleman from cook, Representative
Peter Miller.''
P. Miller' ''Well, Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the
House its obvious that he does represent a number of them
because I'have tlle record issued by William Cody Director
of Research and Education Service Region of cook County .
And a Bulletin iésued number 10 year 70 'and 71 and ah .. .
my Doint is, and this isn't the first time I've raised thi
on the floor of hhis House, its in my humble orinion, a co flict' . .k AF). '. '..a . vv. ; t (; . . ... $ i / e(gç x jj jj yj, j.a yj g g jj yj jj j.y y/' tz.s:v-qz')> G(ê s. -k'..
';.t.!?'.) . .1 sv -v -.: o -' ' u - . s. o . s'xd $:'1/ . x.. . '
.4 o u s e: o Er R E 1* 14 c s e; N 'r A. 'r I v E sxttu z... .
67.
of interest. This legislature should be free, any member,
and I stand.....''
Reo. Arthur A. Telcser ''Representative Lechowicz. for what
ourpose do you rise, Sir?''
Thaddeus S. Lech owicz: ''Point of order Mr Speaker, I believe
Representative Choate exolained quite adequately as far as .
how Reoresentative Scariano réceived these bills.' I'd li e
to have a ruling.''
Reo. Arthur A Telcser ''Would the geqtleman olease keep withthe substance of the bills please.''
P. J. Miller' ''A1l I'm claiming is a conflict and I think sore ody
else should handle thenu because this the sponsor of thes
bills stands to gain as an attorney from these school dist icts.
And I think that ah....H . . '
Rep. Arthur A Telcser' HRepresentative Miller Representative
Mann for what purpose do you rise, Sir?''. I
.Robert E. Mann: ''Mr. Speaker, it is not within the gentleman's- 1previewtoA determine who does or who does not handle legisl tion r
@in this House. That is up to the individual member. And
do not think his remarks are pertinent or relevent and I w u1d '
. ask him to please cease making them. And I would ask for j
ruling from you to that effect.'' I' 2
HI think your point is well taken, Sir. iReo. Arthur A Telcser: I
IReoresentative Miller, if you would confine yourself to th i;
isubstance of the bill. I think that would be oroper sir.'
, P. J Miller: ''Mr. Soeaker, I'd ask Representative Scariano to ij:
answer but ah...I'm going to persist, and If you want to o errule l. i
. .' x% % $1 ... .ï ' % '-rrp'f G E N E lt A L A S S E M B L Y 1''i,t :s:'-t.: s.J , r h'hs .y
'
.. t. . . . ; y.( . ' r'. . ' ' ;* ,' . H C1 tl S E: o F R C P R E S E N 'F A T 1 V e: S
. , ''o . . . s . %'' .
. , 68.
IZC * * * i '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Alright, Representative Scariano. for
what ourpose do you rise, Sir?''
Anthony Scariano.'' Mr. Speaker, I'm vevy well capable of handl'ng l. !
or answering any question that Representative Miller direc ed i!
me. Now, I indicated in the opening remarks that I made (
that I was not avkare that there was a shortage in the Tran por- .
tation fund and the ospl. 'That I was not aware that there
were shortages in the Transportation funds of any school
district in this state. My minority leader, Representativ
Choate, asked me to hande these bills. And I hcpe he came
to me because he thinks I know a little bit about schoos
affairs. I have listed in the blue book, long before we h d
ethics act, that I Represent School districts. Now I put
that in my ethics stateme'nt, and I know it doesn't come qs
' a surprise to the gentleman, but I'm a little bit interest d
in the statement that he put in his ethics report, that he's
under a retainer fee of the'10O0 qaraqe corpcrations at 10 0x- - - '
south Wabash Avenue in Chicago Illinois. The last ethics
statement lists that he's under retainer by Garage Corrora ions
Fhich indicates to me that he might be interested in the f ct
that this money is coming out of the Transportation Fund
' because he's interested in people that are into transporta ion
business. Now maybe he bught to answer a question.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Now, ladies and gentlemen, we are....
Representative Choate, for what purpose do you rise, Sir?n
clyde L. Choate: ''Now, if this is a ball'g ame or something, I d
say that they are all even: they ve oYs--score a run, anq v -) & . ',#.;2> c--x' ï G E N E It A L A S S E 51 B L Y. : -.... .r ':;J j' '%! - ' ''qly. r . z. . . :: 1 s v s, v. t: o s , u u : sl o I s .$ / 'F ' .( z?% -zf:.. . . .X..J 'z . . uotlsc C'F R El IZEGENTAT IV CG. at ' +%*
69.
Mr. Speaker, would request that you have everyone that
wishes' to soeak to confine their remarks to the legislatio
at hand, and lets get along about the busim ss of the Hous .''
Reo: Arthur A. Telcser' ''Your point is .very Mell taken, Repres nta-
tive Choate. Representative Miller, if you wish to use th
rest of your time, the chair would aopreciate it if kouwould confine you'rself to the legislation pt hand.
''
P. Miller: ''Well, then point of personal privilege, Mr. Spe ker-''
Reo. Arthur A Teleser: ''State your point.''
P. Miller: ''Ah...#s a former member of the 1000 garage. Sou h
Wabash where T was ah...salesman, I quit that a year ago
last October....october of last year because I didn't have
the time to devote to the work and give full justification
because I've got to be here full time. As you remembpr we
started around October. but however, don't aooologize fo
' any of my actions. A1l I'm saying is that think that af
of us should live uo to theethics act. do feel that I
can't vot, on this in the ooiition I was going to vote for
when he as a soonsor. is handling these billsm And th t
was my only objection as I did last year and orevious year
Fhen other soonsor, who were reoresenting certain oeople,l
just can't support these bills then. And ah...therefore.raise that objection because I do feel it is a conflict of
interest. And ah...Mr. Jpeaker, I thank you for allowing e
tbis time.to explain my position.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Gentlem n
from Lee, Representativè Shapiro.''
v N t ow'rs c jï N E R A j. A s g E M 1) t. Y! t .. ' ; 'j' 4. . : .' ; j smavu og , uu, sjojsfqt ' ,
z ,:**.% . '* t x; ' j.j o tg s u o (' e4 c r: , k c s lc N 'r a 'r 1 u c sJ? 4 bp%+
7O.
David C. shaoiro: ''Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlelen of t e
Houàe, I wish to raise a point of order.''
Rep. Arthur A Telcser! ''State your point sir.''
David C. Shapirol ''House Bill 4608 ah.- approoriates aoproxima ely
7.6 million frop the Transportation Bond Fund Series to
the office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction for
the purpose of providing reimbursement to a'h-.. school dist ict
transoortation funds. Now, House Bill 2300, which created
thë Transrortation Bond Fund, and the Bills series Be out f
which these monies are to be paid, specifically stated. ou 1ic
act 77.181 sectioh 5 states the following; 'units of
local governments means municipalities, county, townshirs,
and district, in no way can this be construed to mean scho l
districts. And further more in section 5E, districts'is
further defined to mean al1 of the followingr 'any distric
created Dursuent to the local mass transit act approved Ju y
2l, 1959 as amended to authority created pursu ant to the'
...-
metropolitan transit authority act approved April 12, 1945
as amended, three, any authority commission or otier entit es
which by virtue of an interstate compact approved by congr ss,
has authorized to provide mass transportation.' In no way
is a school district eligible. Therefore. s'ince we are
injecting a new element into the Transoortation Bond Act. #
'
I'm asking the Chair if a three fifths vote is required,
since the original bond Transportation Act was oassed on a
three fifths vote?''
Rep. Arthur A Telcser' ''Gentleman from cook, Representative S1 ea
qs'.-:*'. ,. f o r what purpo se do ou ri se , S i cj ''4% b : ----'eea, r; n pk I)C- jl ,& y. z: s s jj sj IJ k. hr/ j k:q
'
''t :(. . .k . jf q '. !' .' : , s 'r x a' e o c ' u c. ' w' o ' s$ tz?'.=' ,',' ' sowsu o,r 'zcer. cslcrqvav.. w q:s* f 1. . -. s +
7l.
Gerald W. Shea. ''Well, I'd like to inquire that this as
understand Representative Scariano's legislation, it only
amends what the purposes of the funds ean be used for. Th t
the major legislation handled by the Sneaker of this House,authorized up to $900,000,000 in General Obligation Bonds '
of this state for Transportation purooses. Now that rêqui ed
a three fifths vote. At the iime the Soeaker oresented th
other parts of the legislation it was the' ruling of the ch ir
at that time, that the other legiqlation only required 89
votes. And I think Reoresentative Scariano is' now amendin
a oortion of a bill that the SDeaker, on previous occasion,
had ruled, needed 89 votes.''
Reo. Arthur A. Telcserz ''Represpntative Shapiro, do you wish t
add somthinga''
David c. Shaoiro: ''Ah...Mr. Speaker. ladies and gentlemen of t e
House, the transoortation bond fund series B, that particu ar
b111, House Bill 2300 required a three fifths vote. We ar ...
V' limited to units of local governmente and massand it as
transit districts. We are not interjecting school distrie s,and private carriers of pupils. I therefore, state that s nce
is a new elemenk a three fifths vote is required. And
furthermore, let me read yop the section of the constituti n
that oertains to it. Section 9 states; oaragraoh B; ''stat s
that for specific purposes maybe incurred, or the payment gf
state, or other debts guaranteed in such amounts as may be
.orovided either in a law, Dassed by the vote of three fiftl s
of the members eleeted to each House, of the General Asse ly
....t)'z. '. or by re f erendum o f the reople . ''. t 'N 4 ',?) J ( -> e: ... G E N E It A L A S S E M B L Yï:. .: ?- ; ., - :g1 ç . w'. ' ., ; ) s'r a 'r e: o r.' I u u I sl o I s. j.. ) '.r. . . . s qa uj s u o p- r.p c ys a ju s c ol .r #$ x. I v u st ' +. *'% :.1.. l*%
72.Rep. Arthur Telcser ''Representative Shea, for what purpoe
do you rise. Sir?''
'Gerald W. Shea: think the bond bills', were in the 1300 seri s,
the one that was handled by the Speaker. think 2300 was
a very specific bill for the ah . - .use of money for masstransportation. I think 2300 was Representative Garmisa'sbi1l.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcserz ''Alright, Representative Shapiro, ah..in order to check this out so we can get a oroper decision,and to see just what bills we are amending
, which were inthe original act, ah...I hope the sponsor would allow us Eotake this out of the record now e so we can eome back to itand give you a proper decision. O-F? Take that out of the
record. House Bill 4687. '.
Jack O'Brien' ''House Bill 4687. A Bill for an act making an
aoorooriation for the salary of the state comotrcller. Thi dreadingx.''
Ren. Arthur A Telcser: ''Take that out of the record. House Bi 1.A .
4688. Representative Choate, do you wish to have 4688 or 9
called? No. Take those out of the record. Senate Bills,third readings. Senate Bill '1394
.''
Jack O'Brien' ''Senate Bills 1394. A Bill for an act making an
appropriation to the Secretary of State. . . . . . ..'
Rep. Arthur A. Teleser: ''Take that out of the record. SenateBill 1400.
''
Jack O'Brien uSenate Bill 1400. A Bill for an act making ap
pr p-riations to the Secretary of state
, administration of the.%<jm..,. Illinois Governmental Ethies Act
. Third reading eE the bil1. ''''fby'hz:n G E N E R A L A S S E 51 13 L Y
l t ' . . t f MJ s 'r n. 'r c o lr I u u I r4 o t sf - ) .!. .j g .' ''Z . ' @ .3 u c s. : H o U S E O F R E P R L G E N T A T 1y ' e '' eu d :1 ' & *5
73.
Rep. Arthur A Telcser: ''Gentleman from Mcl4enry. Representativ
Lindberg.''
George W . Lindberg' 'êAh. . .Mr. Speaker, this does the same thin
that the similar bills did, which eminated from the House,
ft aporopriates the funds to administer the Illinois Ethie
Act, which was just upheld. And also the Federal Campaign
a c t . '' 1
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion. Question is
shall Senate Bill 1400 pass? A1l those in favor signify b
voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have a11 voted ho
wish? Take....Take the record. On this question 145 'aye '
no 'nays'. And this bill ha/ing received a constitutional
majority is hereby declared passed. Senate Bill 1425.''Jack O'Brien ''Senate Bill 1425. A Bill fcr an act to provide
for the ordinary and contingee expenses of the Department
of Revenue. Third reading of ihe bi11.'':Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
' William Wîls%.''
W . Walsh ''Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the House,
Senate Bill 1425 is the annual approoriation for the 'Depar -
ment of Revenue,.ordinary and contingent expenses. It app op-
riates $163.721,000 to t%e Departmentof Revenue. Ah-..abo t
l24 000 000 of this is for ah...retzrns to the taxoayers,$ . ,
either from the overpayment of income tax, or to a local
governments for ah...personal property ta'x relief. urge
yoursuuport.
Reo. Arthur A Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? Question is
uf' '? c.?m k. . c E N E R A L A S S E :1 l $ L Y, y-... i , ,, jj( l ç it-: r. ) sv .vc o 1- 1 uulslols'h ( ' x ' ' . '& * 'x t . ' H o k3 S E: C> fr 12 IC P R E S E hl T A T 1 N/ e; S
74.
shall Senate Bill 1425 pass? All those in favor signify b
voting 'aye', the opposed by voting'no'. Have a1l voted w
wish? Take the record. On this question there are.....Pa as'
d 'a es' 'nay'.'aye'. On this question there are 14 y , ,
And this bill having received a constitutional majority is
hereby dec>ared passed. Senate Bill 1438.,9
Jack O'Brien ''Senate Bill 1438. A Bill for ah act to provide
for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Illinois
Raeing Board. Third reading of the bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser ''Gentleman from ccok, Representative
sevcik.' Is he on the floor? Take it out of the record.
Senate Bill 1558...
Jack O'Brien ''Senate Bfll 1558. A Bill for an act to amend
sections of an act relati.ng to the Illinois State Penlitèht'ary
Third reading of the bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser. ''Gentleman from livingston, Representa ive
Hunsicker,''.A'Carl @. Hunsicker ''Mr. Speaker. and ladies and gentlemen of t e
House, Senate-Bill 1558 provides for the state td reimburs
thercounty for all expenses which would otherwise be paid or
by the county for a1l preceding a rising out of the penite tiary
system, or the state's reformatory or eorrebtional faciliti s,
instead of just crimes committed within the penitentiary 's stem
by an inmate. What this bill does in reimburse the countie
for difficulties that a rise, such a's a riot in a penitenti ry
or a prison where it would throw a cçst on the taxpayers o
the county where the institution is loeated. It is felt th t
s.pzl' ''<. this should be th@ state ' s obliqation , and I would ask f or your' ?s :)< e7'n,
- p) G E N E l t A L . A S S E 51 l 9 L Yt'i' ) ) . . l svsx.: o r.. , uu. slojs,,''i:'ii'--tir't--..!;!::...... ..r:-;l . .$
.- .kr .6'. ' sousc os aceucscxvavdwcs'z t. .. . . % : *
75. '
favorable conrideration.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telciser: ''Is there any discussion? Question is
shall Senate Bi1l 1558 oass? All those in favor signify b
voting 'aye , 'the onposed by voting 'no'. Have a11 votedC.
wi o wish? Taïe the record. On this question there are....
Lenard 'aye'. On this question there are 135 'ayes', l
'nayf. And tbi.s bill having received a constitutional maj rity
is hereby decKqïvcû' passed. Lauterbach 'aye'. Senate Bill
1459 . ''
Jack O ' Brien r '' S er-fhi t: Bi l l 1459 . A Bill f or an act relating t
coroorations authpkized to execute trusts. Third reading
of the bil1.''
Rep. Arthur Telcaer: ''Gentleman from cook, Represeotative R na.''
Matt Rooa' ''Mr. Speaker and members of the House, Senate Bill
1459 authorized banks and trust companies to hold shares i
the same issuers in bond for their qaricus trust accounts.
This can be dooe either in their own iatitution or by deoo itsvA ' r
' with a clearizxd'corporation. Banks are be ng authorized b
one of the amena%ents being made to the Uniform Commercial
Code, in Senat'a Bill 1505, which will come up in this sess on.
To oarticipate in a creation and ownership of .a clearing
corooration in the Chiçago Area. Nèw York, and California
have a clearing icorooration as of now. We are just trying
to meet up witpà'.snhem. A Clearing Corporation must be orga ized
as a trust company in Illinois, consequehtly the commissio er
of banks of Illinois will have full authority to examine a d
rpgulate. The cltional bank examiners and the SEC will al o, ..
.... have additionaj.- qz'xpervzsory oowers . I'-g-ô-frè-it your suooor . ''. xxt * : tJa., tz .8 -,7-.., ks G I.t.' N E It A L A s s 1:,- ,1 1$ L, Y/ i' lv -;. 5- . . yo-.. ?,lt a f. .t . s.r av c o e. I uu I sl o I sïk.. tkr' r. . '. s ou s E.: o s a c ,.,4 s: s c sl v gk x $ v t:s. ' xe
76.
Rep. Arthur A. Teleser: '' Is there any discussion? Question s
shall Senate Bill 1459 pass? All those in favor signify b
voting 'aye' the opoosed by voting 'no'. Have a11 voted ho#
wish? Take the record. On this question 1l7 'ayes', l 'n y'.
And this bill having received a consti'tutional majority is
hereby declared passed. Rdcotd Representative Brenne as
voting present on this last roll call. gendtè Bill 1538.''
Jack O'Brien: ''senate Bill 1538. Bill for an act to amend
sections of the Illinois Municipal Code. Third reading of
the bi1l.'lRep. Arthur A Telcser: ''Gentleman from Wayne. Representative
Blades.Ben r. Blad es' ''Mr. Speaker, ladies. and gentlemen of the Hous ,
senate Bill 1538 makes a change in th@ municipal code and
grants a higher taxing rate for the ambulance service afte
a referendum by the peorle. It was asked for by the muni ipal
league. And I would appreciate a favorable votea''
Rep. Arthur Av Telcsert ''Is there any discussion? Question is
shall Senate Bill 15..... Gentleman from cook, Representa ive
Simmons.
Arthur E Simmons: ''Wi11 the spönsor tell us what the amendmeh
dida''Ben C. Blades: ''On the original bill the oresent taxing rake i
.015 and the original bill ehanged to 25 cents. But the
amendment removes that and said it could go to whatever th
referendum. the amount thht the people requested.''
Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : ''Gentleman f rom Clzristian, Representat ve
ksz' l ,' Tipsword '1/ ! :). J --R> n y G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Yj pa.krq., , L j sj s svwv :2 o e I uuç ,q o , sî-
., . ,.-J. .. ' 5' ! . . VN
Rolland Ti>sword: ''Will the gentleman yield for a question,please?''
Arthur A. Telcser' nHe indicates he wil1. ''
Rolland F. Tiosword: ''Ah-. .Representative Blades, I've had the
ooDortunity to look at the bill and also at the amendment,
and am I correct.o.it relates to nothing else other ihan
ah...setting for 'the rates that can be approved for ambula ce
services. and does not appïy any of the ambulance service
regulations that we've had soce difficulty about, does it?'
Ben Blades: That s absolutely correck' yes. does not
aoply to any regulations whatever.''
Rolland F. Tipsword ''Thank you very much-''
Reo. Arthur A. Telcser: there further discussion? Does th
gentleman wish to close? Quëstion is shan Senate Bil1 l53
Dass? Al1 those in favor'signify by voting'aye', tlne oppo ed
. by voting'no'. Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record.On this question there are 122 'ayes' 4 'nays'
. And this
bill, having received a constitutional majority, is hereby
declared passed. senate Bill 1505.'.
Jack O'Brien' ''Senate Bill 1505 A Bill for an act to amend sections of uniform commercial code. Third readlng of the .
ssll. '.
j . Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: Gentleman from cook
, Representative Bu ditt.
Georce M. Burditt: ''Mr. Speakër. ladies and genttemen of the H use,
Senate Bill 1505 amends the uniform cgmmercial code. Its
a very extensive bill. There's about 70 oages in with
an indeM, and is a very 'comprehensive amendment. 7ow this
, . t .-' ; 4 -.7% ' ' s'
ï G E N E I t A L A S S E M B L Y! j' %.:s' - ': , ) .% , '. j sv s .r s o s 1 t: t. l lx o I st olua .4.4 'tg.tr .Z ' ' * ' j, o u s c o s. IR s p ra c s E.: p4 'r A 'r l v c sR:. seN*
78.
oarticular amendment ah...is an amendment to section 9 whi h
is the .- article 9, which is the article that deals with
secured transactions. Now the bill was given a reasonably
full hearing in the committee, but in addition to that,
Reoresentative Carroll, who had a number of questions abou
spent ah.- several hours with Bill Davenport and Burt
Jenna, Burt being the Chairman of the uniform commissions
''this year. And as a result of that, think a1l of the
questions which Howie had, and which were raised at the
committee meeting have been answered. And General# #
what the amendment does is tighten up the secured transacti ns
section of the uniform aode, in order to make ah- .secured
creditors to give them advantages of knowing what's going n
i before and things like this which are .going to give them al t
better orotection. And they can lend money with more know-
ledge than they have in the past. Its a highly technical
section I'd be glad to go through the article and answer#
any questions on it, but I thinkv fqr our purposes the impo tant
thing is that this does make Illinois the leader in uniform'ty
and its extremely important area of the uniform commerical.
code. Mr. Speaker, I'd appqfreciate your support of the bil .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcsers ''Ts there any éiscussion? Question is
shall Senate Bill 1505 pass? All those in favor signify by
voting- ....gentleman from cook, Representative Bluthardt.''
Edward E. Bluthardt: wonder if the gentleman would yield for
a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''
xk . ,? t:ei ',7-1 i' G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y'j 2.'-.- r , ;:. ;1 svsvs o,- , uu, ,, .,svth. , . J
.. ' v? (. z,;cz's1'$
79.
Edward E. Bluthardtr ''George, would you explain how wq become
the leader in unifcrmitya''
George M Burditt: ''I'd be glad..- let me read you this, Eddy.
This is from the material that was. put together from the
committee. Enactment of the Article 9 package and the oth r
uniform amendments will give Illinois the most modern and
the most uniform commercial code of a1l the 51 jurisdictio s.
The fact is that there are a very few changes that are mad
ah. .in it the only one with the amendment which was out
on here, which I think those at the time at the committee
hearing told us it was probably a good amendment. So ther
is a House amendment and it will have to go back to Senate
for concurrence. But the poi nt is that it is uniform. Ma be
lowie would like to answer that.''
Edward E Bluthardtt ''It just strikes me. that if we are the.'leaders uniformity then there is no ùniformity.'' '
George M. Burditt: ''We11, that's because this bill just came i
very recently. We're the first state to ah.- probably goi g
. to be the first state to take it'and we are taking the 1ea
in making everybody else uniform with Illinois. Which of
course, is the best way to go-'l
Rep. Arthur A Telcser: HGentleman from cook Representative#
Carroll.''
Howard W. Carroll: ''Representative Bluthardt, Eddy, to answer
your question. As you know this comes from the uniform
commissioners, which is a national organization. and the
uniform editors which lncludes the bar associations, the
.r mks. ï 1' ' tl ..î' exu'-! ; .'-> ve .j G E N E R A j. A s s E :1 B L Yi i? $:.$.: - ' ''t. -t.l!- s . .) . ,j, j *7 svAvu os. 1 uupslols$. . 1.. t ' tJ, ' # '' j.g o u; s c i) rz 1.4 c Ia r; c s c tu v x v I w c s' Nt..aaiz. ' . . . ' *
80.
Federal Government, and so on. Ah.- this is the first sta e
thatis actually cdnsideringit. It was before another stat
legislature and they held it back, hoping that Illinois wo ld
pass it first. Illinois uniformly has been the most unifo
in the oast. This will be the first state to make the uni orm
change to a uniform law, hoping the other states will foll w
informly in this uniformity. *1 hape that makes it clear- ''
Edward E. Bluthardtt ''I don't care to continue this any longer
Mr. Speaker, I just as soon have a roll call.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Question is shall Senate éill 1505
pass? A11 thosein favor signify by voting 'aye', the oppo edE
'
by voting 'no'. Have all voted who wished? Take the . d on this question there are l33 'ayes', 3 'nays'.recor .
And this bill having received a constitutional majority is
hereby declared passed. Record Representative Smith as
voting 'aye'. This is.e..this last roll call. Senate Bil
841..,
Jack O'Btien'' A ''senate Bill 841, A Bill for an act in relation
to Delinquent tfxes. Third rea& ng of the bi11.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' ''Gentleman from cook, .Representative
Carroll.''
Howard W. Carrollz ''Thank you Mr Speaker, ladies and gentleme!
of the House. Senate Bill 84l deals with those taxes that
have been over thirty years in their delinqueney and are r ally
uncollectable. It allows the county officqrs to take them
off the books as uncollectable to clean up their bookkeeoi g
to clean up their recording systems to be able to get rid f
& :'jj.h' *1.. r Lk-'?k ç : <. >1 : .. 4-*- ss G E N E 11 A 1. A S S E M B L YI Tsyk . ,., exr.z !) sv ,. vs o s I u u I s, o , s* CtV X1 ''' *. . u o tl s E o F F4 c e R E s c N A' A. 'r 1 v' E1 sW!. ;.. %.%*
81.
these ah- .large number of documents. Tax bills that are
29 years or less would still be alive. The bills would ha e
to be more than thirty..-.or thirty years old or more. An
this would take them off the records. The hope is that
eventually this land could then be bought, put back on the
tax rolls and tax income producing property. I would answ r
any questions and ask for a favorable vote.''
Repz Arthur A Teldser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Fleck,''
Charles Fleck: ''Will the sponsor yieèd'for a question?''
R Arthu'r A Telcser.. ''He indicates he will.''eD ,
Charles Fleck: ''What taxes are we referring to? Real Esta e,
Personal property?
Howard W . Carroll: ''I'm sorry. Charlie these are strictly
real estate taxes.''
Charles J. Eleck: ''What happens to'any pcssible tax leans that
might ..
Howard W. Carroll: ''The tax lean ah.- which would automaticall
be over thirty years old would be removed and we would be
one of tœ n. ty-seven some odd states that are doing somethi g
.similar to this at this time. It would also make it cheap r
for people buying this property. Chicago title and trust,
for Gvample would not have to search beyond the thirty yea s.
I would generally clear up alot of records on uncollectedz
and uncollectable taxes.''
Charlls J Fleck' ''Now is ihis just a thirty year drop, or . .'
Howard W. Carroll: ''Thirty and more.''
.. .. m 3 k. :'
., xp%...v ) ,, ':' :4 b ry!:rs $ G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B 1. Y, k,.; )..$;. ;. ; , s , jl 7 ; ) sv . x tr o rz , u u 1 ,' o , sf
. . ;. ( œ F =. ' *t . 1: o t.l s c (7 F'' R E P p? c s b: N T a 'r t w E2 s*n. &ss+
82.
Charles J. Fleck' ''What about special assessments?''
Howard W. Carroll: Its my understanding that they are over
thirty years o1d or over they would also be taken off. 1'
sorry that's not right. Special assessments are not cover d
by this.''
'' f Macon RepresentativeRep. Arthur A. Telcser: Gentleman rom ,
Borchers.''
Webber Borchers: ''Would the sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''
Webber Borchers: believe a1l these questions have been answ red
but. are there any provisions of any sort that ah...in rel tion
to the fail or the rules and regulations for the sale of t e
set property by each county treasurers?'d
Howard W. Carroll: ''No, Representa* ive Borchers, this ..merely
deals with taking the uncollected taxes off as uncallectab e
if they are thirty years old. It has nothing to do with t e
a1e ''S . .... ' .
Webber Borchers: nWe11 as a matter of curiosity, wouldn't you#
'
, think khat it also should have a provision ofhow you shoul
go about putting on ...selling them at public auctions or
are the present statutes o-k?''
Howard W. Carroll: ''Wel1, we have several ways of doing is pre ently
including what is known as the scavengers act and so on.
This isnot dealing specifically with that.''
Webber Borchers: ''O-K.''
Rep Arthur A. Telcser! ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
G 1. a s s . ''
.'- ' k ,. x... e).:yl ê' ez$ ? '7?72 'h E N E R A L A s s E M i) L v.. RJ . .! G' çk':. .à1,h') é) srxxu o ,, fuu,s o,sjt i J' .jj, ; ,'l. px+
s3.
Bradley Glass ''will the gentleman yield for questioning?''
Rep. Arthur A Telcser' ''He indicates he will.''
Bradley M. Glasst ''Howie, I'd like some clarification on that
point tOO. In Other Words, When taxes are delinquent in
due Course the property is put up fOr Sale. I suppose sOm
of it can't be sold, but ah...ah....I'm just wondering ah...if this bill would excuse the 'requirement of putting up
delinquent property for sale and ah...under what circumsta ces
are we waving the leans ah.. here?''
Howard W. Carroll: ''Brad, ah...you know, the speci/ic ways of
putting it up for sale ah..-on the annual sale or under th
scavengers act or the foreclosure sales, really have nothi g
to do with this specifically.. Those are still available
as remedies. They are salqe le and usually somewhere.aroun
10 years they're out. This just deals wit'h that that is
over.- .you know, thirty years or over that has so far pro en
to be uncollectable. And really its just to allow the boo s
to be ahef..kept a little bit cleaner and to clean up the
title after the thirty year period. T donlt think it will
really effect that, and there are the other remedies, the
omissions, you know the chapter 121 stuff and things like
that . ''
Bradley M Glass ''We1l, it was my impression that a11 prcpert
ah. .or almost al1 property where the taxes are uncollecta le
it is certified to the county clerk and put up for sale at
auction. Ah...I suppose that which isn't sold would ah...
fall into this cateéory.''
.. .... j; çtv.u? '?
.; ->''c)j G E N E R A L A S S E 51 11 L Yl j 4.. , s yt sltS. . . 1' 22 ) s 'r A. 'r c o e' 1 u u I N o 1 ss
.: ' ù.q:L1 , T$ ' ' . ' s o u s c: o s. n s e I . c s c sl v Jk 'r I v tc s. ,,/,i.
'' : s%*
< .
84.
d W. Carrollr .'We11, you know, the scavenger act, for exa p1e1 l oœa r
is where its delinquent ten years or more. Ah. .this , yot
know, would skill be an available remedy. The scavenger
act. A11 we're trying to do by this is to say that they
don't have to earry these on item for item.''
Bradley M. Glass ''In other words, not having sold the propert
after thirty years, this wonld be available.''
Howard W. Carroll' ''It wouldn t clean up the thirty that are
still owed, it would only clean up from thirty on.''
Bradley M. Glass: ''I see, thank you-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Simmons.
Arthur E. Simmons ''Wi11 the sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser ''He indicates he .will.''
Arthur E. Simmons have in my district, a school district,that fn 1932 issued 'tax anticipation warrants to school
teachers for their pay. They ah.- never were able to rede m
the tdxAanticipation warrants. Now in the enactment of th s
bill, ah..-what will happen to the ah-- warrant.ll
Howard carroll' ''Art, this is strictly tazes that have been
levied against real property-''
Arthur E simmons: ''This is real property taxes.''
Howard w. carroll' On a specific piece of propertya''
Arthur E. simmons ''on all of the property in the school distr cts.''
Howard E. carroll: ''We11, its my understanding that that whic
is going back before 1942 would be deemed uncollectable.''1 '11 Arthur E simmons: ''And then the warrants even.....''
',h G E N E It A L A S S E 51 8 L Y
%#z a * svavs os Iuulaols
. * H okl sc ty F R E P R Es E e4 T % T 1 V I:S
85.
Howard W. Carroll ''I honestly don't know the answer to that f r
the warrants.''
A thur A Telcser) ''The gentleman from cook, Representati eRep. r .
Maragos.''
Samuel C. Maragos: ''Mr. Speaker, members of the House, when we
discussed this bill in the judiciary 1, we had very similaquestions of those being rpised at this hearing...at this
third reading. And there are going to be advantages and s me
windfalls and certain cases. However, the overall intent
of this bill is good, because it will wipe off the records
for properties which have been of no use to anybody and ma be
commerciable and then put then back on the tax rolls and
in the long run which will be beneficial to counties and t
the states. It is true that there will be certain ci'rcums apces
here tax delinquenè prope/ty can, muy be a depreciated ' v' a uew
since the last ten years, and become valuable to the parti ular
developer or whoever else might want to improve the prope r y.MBut in that case, it will be beneficial'because of the fac
that it will give the incentive to the developer 'to come i
to developf this property, where he might not have done so
if the taxes where prohibitive prior to 1942. I think
eventually what we have to do ip to insure that there will
be no ûollusion or any conspiracy between any of the State's
Attorney's officers or other county officials to let certasn
dormlnt taxes 1ie for a few years, is to insist. And mayb
we can amend khat after we'f've had a trial basis if this
act becomes a law, to see that they must, beEween the 25 a d
., :..,jj> .' t*.%-' M''-,r;> G G E N E It A L A S S E M 13 L Yl z.ù 4 . .
ï IU.:'h l j) $. i ) s v ,k v s o r.. I u u I ,' o ' sf ,- ? .. 'aj/z *( T ' ' * ,) s o u s tt o lr ,4 p: yy 1: E s q: N T A. T 1 v E S4 ' +
86.
30 year each states attorneyfs office should, maybe, manda e
to attempt the collective statutes before the thirty years
run out. But I think the intent of this bill is good and
therefore, I'm going to ask your support and I'm going to
vote in favor of it.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' ''Gentleman from cook. Representative
McGah . ''
Jose'ph P. McGah' i'will the sponsor y 2b' ld for a couple of quest'oHf''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi11.''
Joseph P. McGah: ''Ahe.mRepresentative Carroll, ah...first of a l
. who requested this bill, do you knowa''
Howard W. carroll' ''Ah-- Representative McGah, it came over fr m
Senator Palmer ah...I'm really not sure. I know .he has ha
some expertise in the cook county rec6rders office. I'm n t
sure if that's where it originated or not.''
Joseph P. McGah You say it ma# have originated in the Reco ders
f f ice? Now the next question is . as far as I know tie po icy9
of the statd's attorney in cook county, its been only to a 1ow
foreclosure of General taxes down through the year 1946. s
that still correct?''
Howdrd W. Carroll' ''ls far as know, yes.''
Joseph P. McGah ''In other wbrds, in about three or four more
years a1l the leans from 1946 back wduld be wiped out.'.
Howard W. Carroll' ''From 46 back to 45, 44...,..,.
Joseph P. McGah: ''Personally if you wanted to clean up a perso l
orooerty like Ehat you'd have to go in and make arrangements
for a minimum bid, etc.''
.z qLA,: f tt a.t''?. .% y--frvft G E N E It A L A S S E M B L YI ? kl *' ':!. . q , ù.( n+ ( - : k ' . ' C ' Y.J : s T A. 'r E o f'' I L t- 1 N O ' Sk ' 'tk,/,'=7 .j. .. ...'' ' s ou ss o s r. cp s, cs c rq v A.r I v es
. ë l 1. . . s e*. zI6
87.
Howard W. Carroll HIt would be on anything from 1942 through
today .' ''
Joseph P. McGah: ''Yes, would be four more years though the
46 leans would be wiped out.''
Howard W Carroll: ''Yes, from 42 to 46...
Joseph P McGah: ''And my third and last question. Does this
apply to special assessment leans too or just general taxe ?''Howard W. Carroll' ''General takes, not special assessments 1ea s.''
Joseph P. McGah ' ''Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: HGentleran from Peoria, Representative
DZV œ îî
Robert G. Day: ''Will the sponsor yield for a questionr'
' Rep. Arthur A Telcser' ''He indicates he wi1l.''
Robert G Day: ''Representative Carroll as I understand your
bill it does not extinquish the lean. This act will noi
. distinquish the lean for' general taxes which h'as accrued .
for the thirty year period Is that correct?''
Howard W. Carroll: ''Within the thirty years back, that is. -<
correct.''
Robert B. Day! ''So that even after khis bill passes, there wil
still be leans, with interest and penalties within the thi ty
year period......''
Howard W. Carroll: ''As of right now it would be the 1942 taxes
43, 44, up through '71.'t'
Robert B. Day! ''And this bill does nok relieve the ah...county
treasurer from including, 1et us say, a piece of property
that has 25 years delinquent taxes oh it, from including
t-prop 'm- ' a ' . He- .-st-vbl-Jzavz VT o. , .% 4. $) . , u.8* $., ': '.!):.. : ,->- ry G E N lï It A L A S S E 51 13 L YI N1'k'r. , f.& . $ ) svsx.u o e. .1 uu1 xojs%'t', . .t* Jj ( / = ' * j4 o w s Is o' p. r, c e n c s r! ?u v gk v , v r: s#'.. z3':
88.
that. Is that correct?'
Howard W. C'arroll ''Yea, this has, as I understand it, has not
effect on anything under thirty years old.''
Robert G. Dayz ''We11, Mr. Speaker, and.ladies and gentlemen of
the House. I think that this is a desirable piece of legi 1a-
tion. When you have a situation where a given p ere of
prooerty is still on the tax books because. no one has been
interested enough in that piece of prope rty to come in and
oay the back taxes against it. It seems to me that the wiée
thing to do is to ring the water out of it, and to facilit te
the entire legal process of getting that piece of property
back on the tax rolls. And the only way that you can do
that is to liquidate it and ah--.make it attractive enough
for some individual to buy it, who will be willing to ,pay
the taxes on it in the future. This .is bound to result .in' a benefit to a1l of the other taxpayers who are within the
district, and on the assessment roll, that this particular
Sicce of proye rty is liable for. So, T think that there
comes a times when you get these few white elephants on th
books which should be liguidated and got back on the kax
rolls at any cosk. And it seems t6 me that this is a desi able
bill and I trukt that you will a1l vote for it.'.
Rep. Arthur A, Telcser' ''Is there further discussion? not,
the gentleman from cook, Representative Carroll to close t e
debate
Howard N Carroll: ''Thank you I think Representative Day did a
goY job in explaining an' d closing debate I would just as
' rtmx for a f avorable vote '',X nvg's c k: N E R A L, A s s E M B j- Y.' y yy .. . .q . ., (4.14(f f -) J
.
:, ..()#.i , s'r a 'r e o 'r ' u u ' r4 o ' s
h' <, F H ou s r: (:; F 12 E e- csc pë 'r Jk 'r I v c sf o1. ,51J**
- - -- . - --. --.-- . - . .
09.
ReD. Arthur A. Telcser: 'fThe question is shall Senate Bill 84l
oass? ' A1l those in favor. signify by v oting'aye , the oppo ed
by voting 'no'. Have al1 voted who wish? Take the record.
On this question there are 120 'ayes'. ll'nays'. And this
bill having received a constitutional majoritg is hereby
declared passed. Senate Bill. . . . .Representative Hall, for
what purpose do yöu rise, Sir?''
Harber H. Hall ''Mr. Speaker, I''d like ah. . to make a motion
on the floor of the House, to have ah - .two bills placed
back on the calendar that. .. .''
Rep. Arthur Telcser. uO-K. let's go.....senate Bill 1290.
Lèt's take that out of the recor d . Senate Bill 1362. Let
take it out of the record. Senate Bill 606, is Representa ive
Dyer on the floor? Take it out of the record. SenateBill 1454..'
..
'
Jack O'Brien ''Senake Bill 1454. A Bill for an act authorizin
the sale of a certain real propetty in cook county. Third
reading of the bill- ''
Rep . Arthur A . Telcser' ''Gentleman from Boone, Represeptative
Cunninghama''
Lester cunningham! ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of t e
House Senate Bill 1454 as amended, ah...this bill authoriz s
the Departmentof Mental Hea1th, to sell by quick claim dee ,
a small track of land on the grounds of the Chicago Reeds
Mental Hea1th Center, to the Commonwealth Edison Companv
for the amount of $230,000. The Commonwea1th Edison Compa y'
ywikhed to acquire the track about 250 oot square , approxi ately' sq .. e; 1:1. ( :. ''g s ,
.' )- .%. : -.
w -?)h G E s E R A j- A s s E M 13 L Y(; j a . . ' t sj J ,' s v a v i: o rr , u u.I s o , st f' 'n? ' ' 'A( 'h . + H o kp s E o F 91 c p' 12 E s c pl 'r A r ( x! r s. Mrz ;, 6%.= J
90.
165 hundredths of an acre at the intersection of Irving, P rk
Road and Oak Park Avenue for the installation of electric'
transmission distribution center. 'The prooerty has been
ap/raised and the price stated in the bill is the appraise
value. I urge your support on the bill.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Kane, Representative
Hi 11 . ''
John Jerome Hill: nl wonder if the sponsor would yield to a
question?''
Arthur A. Telcser' ''He indicates he will.''
John Jerome Hill! ''I'm sorry but I couldn't hear your exple-na ion
ah...where there bids left out of this piece of #rgbertya''
Lester Cunningham ''They've appraised the property, and I 'imàg ne
there is only one person who is interested, so they get
more electricity, those residents in that area. I don't
think there'd be anybody else who'd be interested in it,
because they don't have any electrical wires running throu h
this area.''
John Jerome Hill: ''How many appraisels were received on this?n
Lester Cunningham' ''One, as far as I know, Representative.u
John Jerome Hi1l: ''Just one?''
Lester Cunningham! ''As far as I know. ' As far as my estimates
are concerned.''
John Jerome Hi1l: ''We1l, and how large is this plot of ground?'
Lester Cunningham: ''1 and 65 tenths of an acre.''
John Jerome Hill' ''And what sets on this property now?''
Lester Cunningham ' '' Nothing that I know of . ''
...i.. ., v...:, ./' L..? 'gjrrrn ek'.$ G E N E R A L A S S E M 11 L Y/ j q . y j.s y ;$ j . t . ' I aU : s 'r A 'r c o F y k. t. ! N o j sQjp7 (1... . . %.... sj cj o s c o s g j: p jq u s js sj x A x j w c sV1 #' +%*
91.
John Jerome Hill' ''And you say there was only one appraisal?''
Lester Cunningham ''As far as'l know, thatss right, Sir.''
John Jerome Hill' ''We11, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to say a few wo ds
on this Darticular piece of legislation.' Usually when a
piece of property.....when a piece of property by the stht
is sold, and I have gone through this with property from tl e
Elgin State Hospital, thatthe ah..-people uo there were
required to receive more than one appraisal. The departme t
would give an appraisal ah.- the people interested in the
area would get an appraisal, and ah...they would choose a
third person to appraise that property. And here we have
a Diece of property being sold to commonwealth edison for
$200,000 and I doubt very much if any of us know what this
property is al1 about. And onTy one appraisal has beon pe eived
on it. It seems to me that 'this bill' should certainly be'
defeated and that a further expla. nation from khe piece of
property should be given. I certainly would suggqst that
more thaneone appràisal be asked on this. I don't know at
this particular time, if the figure of $200,000 is proper.
I don't know if the statè is being taken or I don't know i
thepropekty in question is vorth that much. And it seems
to me that we would have a more thorough expla-nation of a
: oiece of legislation like this. And I would suggest that
we vote this down, I'm not opposed to selling it, providin
that I feèl well assured in my mind that the state is givi g
the proper''amount of money. And I would suggest at this
time that you vote no.''
3,, h t '-.'>icx. G E N E R A L A S S E M B L YF' (' :1 Kk'''r', ' .. . ) sx a v c o s I u u , u o , s%
, r'=.'/ ..J. .$ 1. * . p p1 o tl s c o F 1: e: r* .4 c s E p: 'r n T 1 u t! s.fr u z' :''.%
92.' Telcser ''Gentleman from Sangamon. Representati eRep . Arthur A.
Gibbs.
W. Joseph Gibbst ''Mr. Speaker, will th% sponsor yield to a
question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he'll yield.''
W. Joseph Gibbs: ''Representative Cunningham, on the property
involved its my understanding .that the state law, when the
disposed of any real property there's a state statute to t e
effect that it has to be put out for bid. And then its'
sold to the highest bidder. Ah...could you tell me why it
not followed in this instancea''
Lester cunningham: ''Mr. Speaker, I'm sure that things can be
straightened out on this bill. May I ask permission to
withdraw it at 'this timea''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Does the gentlemen have leave to take
this ouE of the record? Hearing no objections we'll takeiI
it out of the record. Senate Bill 208. Take it out of
the record. What about 606? Take that out of the record?
Senate Bill 1412.1'
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1412. A Bill for an act to amend
the school code. Third reading of the bi1l.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman fröm Dupage, Representttive
Hoffman-''
G. L. Hoffman' ''Mr. Speaker. ladies and gentlemen of the House
senate Bill 1412 deals with the issu. ance to bonds for voc tiona)
education ah-projects. 'If you look at your synopsis its
provides that ah..ethe school code is to be amended to pro ide
t...za ew2. f or those school districts who are issuing bonds for - e: rz ) -.-'--c> fcy G E N E R A L A S S E 51 8 L Yj. y ; . ,. x, (& j. ' k ' .. f ' ) sT Jk T (c o fr 1 t. L, 1 N o I s
. & ' ? . r:'. . Y . '* %** , .' :4 o u sc o Ir 14 Ece f? E s u - 'r A.T I u csf,o . -zLs%*
93.
constnzction of varied-vocational projects. pursuant to ag ee-
ment with other school districts. So either passed a refe en-
dum authorizing the impositicn of a tax under ah-..section
17.24 which is a five cent, five year limitation levy, or
having passed such a referendum by resolution ah..authoriz ng
the payment of cost of the project from funds raised by
builzing tax levies. Now no school district can issue thi' five cent taxg unless in fact they have ab- .reached their
sEatutory limikation on their local building fund. Most
school districts have reached that long ago and are above t.
Howeker, there is pne or two school distpicts, believe,
down in the Danville area ah...which can utilize their fun s.
during the last session we passed a bill similar to this
however, we did not provide for the abatement of the ah...
tax levy if the five cent levy is not needed. This partic 1ar
bill provides for the levying of the taxes that are necess ry
and for the extention of those taxes to the degree thdt tb y
are necessary. And I would appreciate your support-''
Rep Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? Question is
shall Senate Bill 1412 pass? Al1 those in favor signify b
.voking 'aye' the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all voted
h i h? Take the r/cord. Bradldy 'aye'. On this quest on W O W s
12l 'ayes', no fnaysl. And this bill'having received aI!
, constitutional majority is herebg declared passed. senate
Bill 1577.''
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bi11'1577. A Bill for an act to amend
I sections of the cigarette tax act. Third reading of the
.xs.c.!!. a , . , ' . , , . s j. y l I ,-M4::-% . -''.> 'c N h Ij: R A L A s s E M B L Y , t .. .( 4 G E N
( .î. kuxv '. , s . ; . ) s v a x j: o re l u u 4 oj o , sr-t s u ... .k 3:.4*. . ' ' .a o u s e: o e r.f c e s, c s c sl x. A v 1 v c s.4'.. .,.. :n%%*
94.
Rep. Arthur A Telcser! ''Gentleman from McLean, Representative
Ha 11 . ''
Harber H. Hall: ''Mr..speaker and ladies and gentlemen of the H use,
I'd like leave to have two bills considered together, 1577
and 1578. These two bills change the cigarette tax act
and the cigatette use tax act and in the same manner.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' HAre there obqections? Hearinq none. -' -'' 1
.' will the clerk please read Senlte bill 1578 a third time.''
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1578. A Bill for an act to amend
sections of the cigarette use tax act. Third reading of
the Si11.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from McLean, Representative
Hall . 't
Harber H. Hall: ''Mr. Speaker, Senate Bill 1577 and 1578. ,each
address themselves to the procedure that ah...should be se
up by the Department of Revenue to yefund ah...money colle ted
from the cigaretke tax act and the cigarette use act Eo th se
suppliers-.who have overpaid the amount of tax that is prop rly
due. Ah- .this is similar to other transferring of the fu ds
from the Department ofRevenue back to the proper ownerse
.When too much money has been paid to the state. Until now
this has n6k been necessary in ah...collection of cigarett
taxes but ah-..there is some money due now and they can't
pay it back without this statutory amendment. know of n w
opposition to these two bills. And I rqspectfully request
your support of them
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? Gentleman
. vxS'..JAP..J..' . f rom cook Repre s entat ive Lechow ) czz ''zi $ * ...,,.,.,.6:.% ' , s y/ ? .. ( & G E N E It A L A S S E 5 IJ.' i' k: , : , .%-.. z ) s,.a v i, .s , uu , ,
.j .js'j,. h 4.% ., .r: ,r. . . ,.(j . H O kl S E O F R C î 14 1: S E N T A T' 1 &/ C S.t. . . %.%*
95.
Thaddeus Lèchowicz: ''Thank you Mr. Speaker, will the sponso
yield to a question?''
Nep. Arthur A Telcsers ''He indicates hè wi1l.''
Thaddeus S Lechowicz: ''How much money is due for a refund now,
Representative Hakl?.'
Harber H. Hall ''I can t answer that. ''
Thaddeus S. Lechowicz: nThank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcsert ''Is there further discussion? Questio
is shall Senate Bills 1577 and 1578 pass? A11 those in
favor signify by voting'aye' and opposed by voting 'no'.
The clerk will take two roll calls. Have a11 voted who
wish? Take the record. On this question there are 132 'a es'
no 'naysl. And these bills having received a constituiion' 1
majority is hereby declared passed. R. Cunningham 'aye'.'
Tim Simms 'aye.. Senate Bill 1579.'1
Jack O'Brien'' ''Senate Bill 1579. A Bill for an act to amend t e
cigarette tax act. Third reading of the bill. ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from McLean, Representative
Ha1l.''
Harber H. Ha1l: ''Mr. Speaker, I would like leave of the House
to have 1579 and 1580 considered together, they are exactl
the same bills in respect to the use tax act and the cigar tte
tax act.''
Reo. Arthur Telcser ''Alright, is there any objection. Hea ingnone, will the clerk please read Senate Bill 1580 a third
time . ''
Jack 0 ' Brien ''Senate Bill 1580 . A Bill for an act to amend t e
(S-'JA t.. cigarette use tax act . Third reading of the bill. ''
.. /u:.b- ï -i-- ,'s'$ G E N E R A L A S S E M 11 L Y/ ' ) qt) . r N . v :* 6 u! ' - ? f ) S T A Y' P: O F ' L' L ' lQ O ' S44e -:' '' ' ' Hou s Iz o F a cp 14 c ss ol'r >'r 1 v ssx ' qe. . ; q. :.a . b *
96.
Reo. Arthur Telcser HGentleman from'McLean Representative
Hall-n
Harber Hall ''well, Mr. speaker', these two bills establish
a provision wiere the internal....the Department of Revenu
will code cigarette tax stamps ah..in a manner that will
enable anyone to identify the distributor on ah.,-cigarett s
that they buy. Ah...it also licenses to' ah . . .each distrib tor
. so that ah.-the license fee that he pays will defray the
exp. ense to the state df going into this sytem of coding
and identifying distributors for the control ah. . .of the
cigarette tax business. 1579 provides for a $250.00 licens
fee for the distributor and ah....a bill we passed earlier
appropriated $52,000 ah.-to the Department of Revenue to
takecare of the work. Th# $250.00 fee then would raise
approximately $42,000 so the state would not have to pay t e
cost ahe..oût of the General Reveneu fund that would not be
coming in to it. Ah...these ah...bills are supported.by t
tobacco ipduptry, because while they don't like to pay the
Eax. they do ah..-they do want to have better control of th ir
business so that there won't be the bootlegging of cigarett s
throughout the state. And they recognize this as a good wa
to do it, and Ehey aré supporting these two bills. I donftknow of any oppositions to the bills,'.l'd be glad to answer
any questions regarding them. And ah...I hope you can supp rt
. these two bills.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Lake, Representative
Murphy . ''
.kxe :q.tp''z ,.. . .'kz1 >( m-il(j G E N E R .4 k. A s S E M B k, Y('L ;.'. . '
( v j. ,( t. . :,.3. r ) sv av e: o s I uu I ,q o lsk 'Q? .Z '. - s o u s c o c e. u e r. c s e: wl 'r A 'r I v c s
97.
W. J Murphy ''Mr. Speaker, a question to the sponsor.l'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He Fndicates he'll yieldm''
w. J. Murphy. ''Ah...Representative Hall, this is just thedistributor, it has nothlng to do kith t'he vendor of machï es
or cigarette machines?n
Harber H . Hall : ''This is only the wholesaler, distributors . ''
W. J Murohy ''Just the wholesaler?''
Harber H. Hall Yes Sir-n
Reo. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman ftom Bureau, Representative
Barry.''
Tobias Barry: ''Would Ahe sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' nHe indicates he wil1.''
Tobias Barry: ''Harber what's *he license fee now?''#
Harber H. Hall' ''There is no license fee Well there s a.lice sing.
don't kncw what the fee ià on that; This is a sep+rate
ah- .license for this number that they are going to use to'
distributor. There's a licensing provisonah- .code the
but I don--- its a very small fee I don't know exactly
' what it is.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser ''Is there further discussion? Questio
is shall Senate Bills 1579 and 1580 pass? Al1 those in
favor signify by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'.
The clerk will take two roll calls. Have al1 voted who wi h?
Take the record. On these questions there are 105 'ayes.
Jack Hilï 'aye.. 3 'nays'. These bills having received'a constitutional majority are hereby declared passed. sen te
ke' that out of the record . senate B'l1Bill 1589.
Oh no, ta
. . - = ' ,1-;. . ,, 1440 .
yj%% .; .. ? ' ') ; ' --> >h G E N E 11 A 1. A S S E M 1 1 L Y'' .? ï.k : '; h , >y 'j . . .(z ç . ! ' ? s'rln t: op 1 uul-olsj ':. ' s s s s s u s s u v a v;v ssV1 lr 2 '.A>%* bîG W SS O
98.
Jack O'Brien ''Senate Bill 1440. A Bill for an act tq amend t e
Illinöis Income Tax Act.. Third readingof the bi11.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser ''Gentleman from Dupage, Representative
Philipe''
James philip: ''Yea, Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of th
House Senate Bill 1440 amends the Illinois Income Tax. It
does three thingsk defines residency, allovs the proration
of state income tax, allows the Departmentof Revenue to
refund payments made by those already enforced to pay Illi ois
tax on Income earned in other states. It came out of the
revenue committee without a decending vote. Its reccmmend d
by the Illinois Taxpayers Federation of the Department of
Revenue.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? Question is
shall Senate Bill 1440 pass? All thqse in favor signify.. by voting 'aye', the opposed by voting 'no'. Have all vot d
who wished? Take the record . On this quektion there are
144 'ayes' no fnays. Mann iaye' Brandt 'aye' Campbellx ' ê #
'aye'. And this bill having received a constitutional maj rity .
is hereby declared passed . senate Bills second reading .
Senate Bill 970.''
Jack O'Brien ''Senate Bill 970. A Bill for an act providing f rgrants to local governmental units. Second reading of the
bill. One committee amendment. Amend Senate Bill 970 on
page b# striking line s 22 thrqugh 34. And on page 2 byptriking- ...''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser 'sGehtleman from cook, Representative
. o -.î'A', o Regner . ''Jh -r?>sv>, G E x E :1 A L A s s E M B t. v/ ? . .J k4 j' 4$: .. r..w . :! '
s v . v .r oe ' u u , ,u o I sL*.vj')j;'.,,.'.-t'. sckusc op-. ncesusraojx xxtv Issk., x . y ;; . ,. . .
9 9 .David J. Regner' OMr . Speakcr, ladies and gentlemen of the Hou e
this is a b i11 which provides for <eimbursement for thostates. counties. municipalities and townships for additio al
compensation for 1aw enforcement. What this amendment doeit reduces the maximum reimbursement to 2V or $200
.00 perindividual per year and it also revises khe requirements t
completion of thirty hours of law enforcement relative cou sesat a college level. And T would move for the adoption of
committee amendment no . 1 to Senate Bill 970.''
Rep. ArthurA. Telcser ''Is there any discussion. The gentlema
has offered tomove the adostion of amendment no. to Senate
bill 970. All in far r of the adoption signify by saying'aye', opposed 'no'. The amendment is adopted . Are therefurther amendments? Third reading
. Senate Bill 1319..'.Jack O'Brien. uSenate Bill 1319
. A Bill for an act to providefor the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Departmentof Agriculture. Second reading of khe bill. Two committeamendments.. Amendment no. 1 amend Senate bill 1319 on pa
g:! t1
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Livingston, Representa ivej '
Hunsicker. Are you handling' Senate Bill 1319, Representa ive
' Hunsicker. Thed'calendar indicates y'ou are the House spons r?''
Carl T. Hunsicker ''I didn't hear you, Mr. Speaker.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Do you wish to move the adoption ofcommittee amendment no . 1 to Senate Bill 13197.'
carl T. Hunsicker ''W3at does iE do?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We1l, that's what we'd like to know , ira''
. ve t : : ; ï . .. ,,;y J .,.z. ,t y ).. j => % ' G E N E R A L A S S E 5$ B L. YE,,k : r>, yl
svsxs ov tuul xc'Is( :) (.-. . z ;. ' tk z -'r . ' ' r - . j, o q, s c o e. a s e ,. c s c ?q v . v 4 v c s, gt ' ' +s..
100.
Carl T. Ilunsicker. ''Is that the committee amendmenta''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: 'lYes, committee amendment no. 1, Sir.'''Carl T. Hunsicker' nYes, I move for adôption of committee amen ment.
''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''GentM rnan from Lake, Representative
Murphy-''
W. Murphy' ''l'd like to have the Representativo explain the
amendment, please.''
Rep! Arthur A Telcser Do you wish to respond, Representativ
Hunsickera''. '
@Cerl Hunsicker. ''What did he want, explain the amendmenta''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' ''Gentleman wants to know what the
amendment does sir.''
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''The amenGnent restores some funds that'we'r
cut off over in the Senate. We'1l give you some figures.
I don't have the tokal amounte in one lump.
Rep. Arthur Au Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Regner will help you out sir.''
David J Regner' ''Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the Hou e
what committee amendment no. l does to Senate Bill 1319, t tal
increase in the appropriation of $342,884. There's an inc ease
in the operating expenses ah . . division of markets that ad s
$136,300 to continue downstate grai.n activities. $196,300Division of Meat, Poultry and livestock inspections it add
$968,700 to General Revenue and it reduces $780,000 in theFederally earned moniès. A net increase of $188
,000. And
in the division of warehouses a reduction of $42,116 for
additional personal. That ' s a reduction . The net ef f ect
..e:A ,.. . is a total increase of $342 , 884 . T move ' or a op a.'b-h---l/ ts 'b..t r'rp?s X)ï G E N E It A L A S S E M 11 L Yj T- ' , ,.. ).f fll'k ' : f s'r-'ru o'- 'uulaosshk . k.J, ' -S . ' .x
x < . H o u s e: o F 14 e B a c s c N T n. 'r 1 v E s. ,t (, ,.. . . s%*
101.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ts there any discussion? Gentleman f om
cook, Representative Lechowicz.''
Thaddeus Lechowica: ''Thank you Mr. Speaker, this was the
amendment that was offered in the appropriations committee and
it was an agreed amendment. move fo1 its concurrence.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
EWei1.''
Raymond W. Ewellr .''Mr. Speaker, I'd like to know if the sponso
would yield to a question?''
Rep. Arkhur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''
Raymond W'. Ew1l: ''Alright, can you tell me why this money was
cut off over in the Senate.''
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''Wel1, that's a good question, Representati e
Ewell. The Senate wanted to do away, as I understand it,
with the grain inspection and Meat and Poultry inspection
in the state' of Illinois. And. these funds were restored,
d d it for that purpose-uas I un erstan
Raymond W. Ewellz. ''We11, in essence doesn't this cost the tax
payers of the state of Illinois more money?''
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''To a certain extent, but you still have
to have ilïspections.''
Raymond W. Eœe11! ''l know/ but don't yôu think economy oughtto start at home and perhaps in our case it ought to skart
here?''
Carl T. Hunsickerr ''Might I answer that question by asking you
one sir? what about the grain inspection and the elevator'
goes out of condition and so on and so forth . someone has
.'.ma ,) . to' look after this and I think . . . . . '':' b ' c'rpleh (; E N E R A L, A s s Iy M 13 L Y1' s.,: . 4 u
l i' b-a -. os ) .1 sv s v c o s , u u 1 ,u o , sj.t'. L.;.t',n.: ..2. ,' nowsc o s rxcpf, Issu s.v axtw cs%r., .a . &1*
102.
Raymorzd V. E<el1: ''We11, I have great faith in the ah..- asenate
and their appropriations 'committee. I know thev looked at
this very thoroughly, and I happen to be a member who thin s
we ought to have a liktle economy in government. And si p1y
don't think we ought to start giving away the taxpayers mo ey
just like it comes from a hog pen somewhere and we can pas
it out like so much slop. I think that the senate was act ng
very admirably. Its very difficult to pare the state budg ts
and I for one think that we ought to concur with the Senat
and we ought to stick with them. And if we mean what we
say when we talk about economy in government and protectin
the taxpayers money, I think we ought to start holding the
line right here and now. And I vote no on this amendment..
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discu.w...''
Carl T. Hunsicker: nDo you want. to cut down on the services .to' the people in government that much, why that's what ycu sh uld
do ' that is correct.''#
Rep. Arthur A.xTelcser: ''Is there further discussion? Gentlem n
. from Fayette, Representative Brumitt.''
Don E. Brummet: ''Would the sponsor yield to a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''rie indicates fae will.''
Don E. Brummet: ''Ah...is this taking out the grain inspectors?
Have you put a11 the grain inspectors back ina'.
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''No sir, this is putfing a grain inspeation
back in in down state Illinois, but not the city of Chicag
which is going to be under Federal inspection as I underst nd
it. '''xst..?j.lz . , ,; x
.k' % ' - -'''-.p 'fe '$ ,.:' t .?. j tj G E N E R A L A S S E M B L hIj ;J. . ' x. , .e/tl .2 -; : s'rnv.s os , uul-ols$k- 'tzU .r' ''. - ,, ow s c o kr r. c,. '.c sc x v , x , v s:1' 'J t. k..#. . v s %
103.
Don Brummet: ''O-K, when you talk about spending money, i. sn '
it true that the grain inspectors thempelves, in southern
Illinois, charge a fee for this and this does cover their
salary more than cover their salary?''
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''It covers some of There's another
companion bill that will come along with this on third rea ing
which is the mandatory ah- bonding of elevators. And this
fee is going to be doubled to take up some of the slacx th t
comes out of here so that the grain inspectors can stay o
the job.''
Don. Brummet: ''O-K.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Arrigo.''
victor A. Arrigo: ''Will the gentleman yield to a questiona''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he will.''
victor A. Arrigo: nYou mentioned the grain inspectors from the
city of Chicago, Representative Hunsicker. Now what's goi
to happen-to the 46 men whose jobs hive been abolished bythe action of the Department of Agriculture, or whomever
was responsible for the slashing of the budget with referen e
to the 4.6 men who inspected ihe grain in the ciEy of Chicag ?
As you know, Chicago is the largest inland port in the worl o
and our grain goes to every part of the world. Who is goin
to take care of the inspection in the Cal-sag Canal grain
elevators?n '
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''The Federaï Grain Inspectors, as understa d
it, are taking over that ah . . .tour in the city of lRicago.
., l.% , .pt-, , ; ' ' ' ' . ', ) jy. u jj j. v, ' ' y Y ) t ''D-> e ' G E N E R A L A S Sj tf- --t ' oq g j sv x.r c o s , u t. j ju o I sf. *. . .. .;
. . ) g / 'r*. ' @t. . H &tJ 5 E C> F f? E P Ft CS E N T A T I V CG. , l..z . . . $ exe
104.
And I might say that if the whole grain inspection were
eliminated as the Senate wanked to do in thzks particular
bill, Federal Control would ha've taken over in the whole
state of Illinois. Personally, I don't want to see that
happen.'l
Victor A. Arrigo: ''Wel1 then what's going to happen to the 46
1261'12 3î
Car1.T. Hunsieker: ''I didn't get your question Representative.'
Victor A. Arrigo: ''What is going to happen to the 46 men whose
jobs have been abolisheda''
Carl Hunsicker: ''Can't give ycu that answer. They'll proba ly
have to hunt other employment the same as anyone else does
' that lo.'ses his job.''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''Weli, but I heard you say that there was a'
provision for additional persopnal. Now will that provisi nj ' take care of the hiring of the .grain inspectors, many of
whom have worked for almost 20 yeârs, ah...for the Departm nt
of Agriculture?''
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''Ilm informed that they will probably be hi ed
back by the private inspectors.''
Victgr A. Arrigo: ''Probably doesn't seem to indicate any certa ntyy
I would like to know v'ery much because I happen to know
several people who are grain inspectors and incident4cy on
of my hobbies has been taking freighters on the Cal-sag .
up to Montreal after this session ends. And I have been
tremendously impressed'by the thousands of. . . . .''
' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Granata, for what purpo e
. .v. !ï* . iLjw do' you r j- s e S i r ? '' ., .! h ( 7.P> f'y'hy G E N E R A L A S S E M 11 1- Y/ 17-: '.' .1l t ç' b .q , - i.?;.tri. z J s v . v e: o s , u u , ,u o 1 sq.''(z()? ,rC''-', ' uousc os aseasscavsvlvcsTz sp%*
105.
Peker C. Granata: ''Mr. Speaker, I want tq set Representative
Arrigd straight. I understand that these jobs are going t
be abolished and a private enterprise is coming in there a d
contract for that work. And al1 of these men that have be n
working 20 years will get fired. Now those are the facts.
They are not fired yet.n
victor.A. Arrigo: ''Wel1, Representative GranatR, if I could re y
on your statement, that would be fine. But I've heard to
the contrary. It is my understanding that these men absol tely
are going to be thrown out of their jobs. Now their jobs.
and on June the 30th. Nobody has approached them as of ye .''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Duff for what purpose#
do you rise, Sir?''
Brian B. Duff: ''Point of order Mr. Speaker. It doesn't seem t
me that this is germane to the amendment at a1l.''
Rep. zlrthur A. Telcser: ''Would you confine your remarks to the
amendment, Representative Arrigo?''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''yes, but I wanted to know, are these men go ng
to be rehired-..-.''
'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Lechowicz, for what
purpose do you rise, Sir?''
Thaddeus S. Lechowicz: ''Mr. Speaker, Representative Arrigo's
remarks are pertinent to the amendment. They are restorin
money for downstate and he's asking k question for the cit
of Chicago-''
Mictor A. Arrigo: ''Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker.''
))7 ï) '-, .'',9 ? : .o> -h, G E x E It A L A s s Is M 1) L v' i' Q: ' . . &, -( s s k : . j.L. a '; œ ) s v A a. c o s . u u. 1 s, o . sk .(42.t.. .
'. ' '
jxooss o.s Ia cejptcsc slvax.l v cs
106.' #
'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed, sir.''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''I wanted to say this. If a man gives 20 ye rs
oE his life in faithful service to the state of Illinois, e
should not be su ddely dismissad after 20 years of gocd,
faithful labor. Remember this, we are the greatest agricu tural
state in the nation. Chicago is the largest inland port i
the world. Chicago is one of the greatest exporters of gr in.
You don't dismiss men without even giving them, vacation p y,
they have made..a.no provision has been made for any of th ir
benefits, even their pension rights haven't been discussed
properly. And I believe its incumbent upon us to be conce ned
about the welfare of these people.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: NIs there further discussion? Gen'tlem n
from Wayne; Representative Blades.''
Ben C. Blades: ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of the
House id this amendment ah..-there was an elimination of
the grain inspection stations in Chicago. Those people we en't
fired, the job 'was eliminated and the state, therefore, sh uld
provide them with vacation time, and ah...social security,
and retirement benefits. And this amendment puts that bac
in....it was cùt out by the Senate and this amendment put
money back....its other money of course, but included is
money fo'r their retirement for their vacation pay, and Eor
their social security.n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? For wha
purpose do you rise, Reprêsentative Arrigo?''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''I want to pursue this a little bit further. '
Ajlvk gg e,,.4/' '? ç % '% G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Y:' j .f ,? ts p ' 'r. . jI s j. .u : . j;5j s v A v c o fr I u u I 1% o I sl
x . ( V' . j , :7 . ' ' ' ' 4 y a (y uj s u qy s ja u s j j jy s c x v. g x j v ju sN. 4t
,; .. b+%*. v.
107.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''We11. you've used your time, Represen ative
Arrigo.''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''Mr. Speaker I'm' speaking of 46 men who have
Viven many many yearS.....N
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Dan O'Brien, for what
purpose do you rise, Sir?''
D. O'Btien: ''Mr. Speaker, I would like to yield my time to
.Representative.Arrigo.''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''Thank you. Representative Blades, in addit'cn
to the vacation pay, and I'm glad to hear that, in addikio
to their pension, I'm glad to hear that, will they also be
included in the additional appropriation for the personnel.
that ks going to be hired? Are these men going to be amon
the newly hired personncl?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Blades, do you wish to
respond to that sira''
Ben C. Blades: ''Yes...yes, I ah.- .the inspection, as far as th
state of Illipois is concerned, is being cut out, and the
number of employees is being reduced . However, that will e
done by private contracting firms and the Department is
recommending to these private firms that they re-employ th se
people that did work fo'r the skate bf Illinois.''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''May I aai, is the recommendation going to b
a firm condition before the private agency is given the
contract?''
Ben C..Blades: ''I didn't get your question.''
victor A. Arrigo: ''I say, will the rehiring of these people by
.,a4.;u ' . j:o:y- ..y the private agerjcg jog a qondjtionod péecedent bef ore the, .' h c> r . p. It h A s P. M 13 Lk
.;t.. I xr j ï ,l,; ok. ,' ; ) svnvc os , l-udso'sL. t. ? '' ' @ vlousc o r.' Iecerecsc-va'r I u cs, , . h, es
lOB.contract is given to the new agency?''
Ben C. Blades: ''I can't answer that, I doubt that it will.
can't answer that- n
Victor A. Arrigo: ''We1l, in other words, no one is taking careof these 46 men.''
Ben C. Blades: ''No, khe Senate saw fit to ah . - .cut out that en ireinspéction grain program ah- . -Representative. Then we rei stated
.the five stations in the south end of the state, because
they were virtually self supportinge in the fees that they
chargedo''
Victor A. Arrigo: ''Are you familiar with the grain elevators
along the Cal-sag Canal Representative Blades?''
'Ben C. Blaoes: ''Wel1, just partly.''Victor A. Arrigo: ''It is a tremendous business
y and r don't th'nk
that tbe state should arbitrarily resign its obligations t.
a private agency and not make provisions to the men who ha eworked to build up the city of Chicago as a great inlahd p rt.And T beli-eve. something should be done, with reference tokhose 46 men.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Gentlem
from Bureau, Representative Barry-''
11 I ' 'Tobias Barryt I don t care to take the time of the House. butI think we ought to pursue this. Is this a matter of the
inspection going to be done by in Chicago or in cook, by a
private agency, or is it going to be now done by the Federal
government? Is it goin/ to cost us some more money, or an
equivilent amount of money of rehiring the 46 men or just
z9:% b t -w..- W (; E s E 14 h k
. A s s E M 1$ k. v; 0j J 'l...'.n: t . 6i Mk-.ys ' . . f - ; ; k s 'r A 'r e: o rz , u u I p4 o $ sî . 1J ? = ' - s ou sc o s' f4 c p. rv c sc a'r A. 'r I v c sk - . .'#. t.-;;;-z' & * Y
109.
Rep. Arthur Telcser: nDoes the spônsor wish to respond to tl at
question?n
Carl T. Hunsicker: 'Q didnet get that, somebody else is asking
uestions back here I 'm sorry?''q '
Tobias Barry: ''A'nright, I wondered how the work force of the
46 men in cook that are apparently being discharged, hcw
that work forae is going to be substituted? Is it going tt
be by privatc:icoqtract or by.....''
carl Hunsicker/s ''Going to be by private contractors, as I
understand it''.'.'nlong with the Federal Inspectors.''.Q 7 .. .
Tobas Barry: ''Well do you have an expla nation for that? Is#
there some reason for that?''
Cal Hunsicker! can't give you that answer right now. Sir
I don't have it.''
Tôbias Barry: ''Wel1 have an interest seeing this amendment#
passed, but I also have an inuerest. in Mr. Arribgo's ah...
M.r. Arrigo getting an answer to his question, so ah...
wonder, cGufdcbe 'take this out of the record for a fewek .* $,
minutes?''
Cari Hunsicker:. ''It would be alright, sir, if we could get' one of the men from the Department of Agriculture, 1'11 be
glad to get the informatlon.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Alright, take that out of the recor d.. . '
Well, he's taking zit out of the record, Representative
Arrigo. Senate Bill 1371.,.'
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1371. A Bill for an act making an
appropriation f'or the ordinary and contingent expenses of-.
' - '= -- . - ...., ., a , . o - ). k R - . .-
v''; 'e.'j-' ''# ..c.q4' 'T'h :'. q ,. ., . , x ... ,x z.x u ,x . .a &- jv l 13 j.- v. . y.. . y(î- 0't4J... ,.' t') - ) . .- .- sv a vu o p. I uu , x o I s$% ' / W ' ' * . + j. .*. . y.j o uj s c o s rv c e jv c s c hl 'r A 'r , u I:s. :. tk, ,
110.
the Office of Leutenent Governor. Second reading of the b'll.
No comMittee amendments-''.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there amendments from the floor?''
Jack. O'Brien: ''Amendment no. Nowlan.. Amend Senate Bill....'
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Gentleman from Franklin, Representati e
Hart.''
Richard 0. Hart: ''Ah...Representative Nowlan has an amendment o
the bill. Maybe if he's someplace listening to the squak
box ah.-.by this method we can ask him to come back on the
floor so we can take this up. But until he does come back
I would like to hold the bill.n ' thur A. Telcser: ''Take that out of the recork. SenateRep. ArI
Bill 1389.,'
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1389. A Bill for an act to amepd
sections to the Illipois Vehicle code. Second reading of'
. the bill. No committee amendments.'' '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcsert ''Are there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1397.'.
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1397. A Bill for an act to provide
for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Secretary
of State. Second reading of the bill. No committee apen ents-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser! ''Are there amendments frpm the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill l4C6.''
Jaek o'Brien. t'Senate Bill 14b6. A Bill for an act creating
the Illinois Commission for Economic and Program analysis.
Second reading of the bill. One committee amendment. '.
Senate Bill 1406.....''
. q p ; rak. .,;)'; - G' '. - # iy , ''w k.h.s G E N E 11. A L A S S E M 11 1. Yl ? 'V ': ; .' q, z ) sm s x. s: o jz I u j. 1 y4 o Isw fcs ,$' 't -2 .' X* 'Y ' H ou ss o s . 14 c Ia o: Esc e:'r A'r 1 u cs
.%J 6A*
111.
Rep. Arthur A. Teleser: ''Gehtleman from cook, Representative
YCVRCU* fl
David J. Regner: ''Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the Hou e
this is a bill that creates the ahy.oas we call them in th
House- ...the ah-.-loint Commission of Economic Advisors a d
it brings the Senate bill in line ah...it makes it a dupli ate
bill with that of' the House Bill which is House Bill 4286 .
And I ' d move for the adoptibn of amendment no . l to Senate
Bill 1406 . ''
zRep . Arthur A . Telcser: '' s there any discussion? Gentleman
has of fered to move the adoption of amendment no . l to
Senate Bill 1406 . All those in favor of the adoption sign ' fy
by saying ' aye ' , opposed ' no ' . The amendment is adopted .
Are there further amendments? Third reading. Senate Bill
14 l 8 . ''
. Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1418. A Bill for an act making add tion-
al appropriations to the Election Laws Commission. Second
reading of the bill. No committee amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there amçndments from the floor?
Third reading. Senat'e Bill 1433..'
Jack O'Brien: nSenate Bill 1433. A Bill for an act that provi es
for the ordinary and contingent expenses of the Office of
the Superintendent of Public Instruction. Second reading
of the bill. 0ne committee amendment. Amend Senate Bill
l 4 . . . . ' '
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Mcf'lenry, Representativ
Hanahan . ''
, ;,&. $j r )8,$ '? c'?'>%). G E N E R A L A S S E M B 1- Y? ? q. ...J , , jI
.? k .$ .L ,.h. , h svwv s .s , !. u I s, o , s)''.%LjLtL+..jji. '' gouss os acelvsscavxx' w cs#. d ..., . % l
l l 2 .
Thomas Hanahan: ''Mr. Speaker. members of the House, the ame dment
no. l adopted by the House Appropriations committee cuts
$2,000,000 in the urban education requests from the office
of the Superintendent of Public Instruction. And the reas n
wXy the reduction was made was because some of the eligihl
districts are not planning on participating this year. It
also'reduces, I believe, $128,000 appropriation which Sena e'Bi1l 1430, which would have provided a statutory base for
the program was defeated in commitkee and it inareases the
appropria.....of $111,000 for the learning disabilitiss.
And it provides for the expansion of a scNeening program
for the early detection of learning disabilities. T move'
that adcption of committee amendment'no. 1.'.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nIs there any discussion? Gentleman h s
offered to move the adoption of amendment no. l to Senate
Bill 1433. A11 in favor of the adoption signify by saying
'aye': the opposed 'no'. The amendment is adopted. Are
there further amendmentsa''
Jack O'Brien: nCommittee amendment no. 1, aménd senate Bill
1433 as amended on page 10 by deleting lines 31 and 32.
. And on page ll, line 6 by deleting $136,229.....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Genbleman from Mcllenry, Representativ
Hanahan.''
Thomas J. Hanahan: ''I didn't hear khe amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Oh...wi1l the clerk please read the
amendment ? ''
Jaek O'Brien: ''As amendment on page 10 by deleting lines 31, i
. ix .. I..&!.' : ':, '. : :v? .:. .t?h - r'vnk N c E y E 11 A L
. A s s E M 8 Iw Y 1,. .. u, ,,.. .tk jIi' .'. %. ) , ..); qh sxwvs o v. , uu , ,q o , s. oik . .. - ,:, .s*
113.
32. And on page 11 lines 6, by deleting $136,229,.306, and
inserting in lieu thereof; $136,101,000.'.
Thomas J. Hanahan: ''I believe this is the amendment that we
just put in the lines items that are made necessary by thechanges of the amendment no. 1. Maybe Representative Regn r
would be able to explain that amendment.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Regner.ï
David #. Regner. ''Ah-this is a reduction of $128,306 for the
develop ment of state educational needs assessment program
And it is a committee amendment and I would concur in the
adoption of it..!''
Thomas J. Hanahan: ''I thought that was in amendment no. 1, I'm
sorry. I move to adopt amendment no.
Rep. Arthur Telcser: '.0-11, there any discussion? Gpntle an
has offered to move.for th& adoptiom of amendment no. 2, t
Senate Bill 1433. All those in favor of the adoption sign fy
by saying 'aye' opposed 'no'. The amendment is adopted.
Are there' further amendments? Third reading. Senate Bill
. 1492..,
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate .Bi1l 1492. A Bill for an act to create
the non-public state rental grant act. Second reading of
the bill. No committee amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Fenate bill 1498..'
Jack O'Brien:' ''Senate Bill 1498. A Bill for an act making an
'appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction.
Second reading of the iill. No committee amendments.''
, tl h ( e-r7> CN G E N E R A L A S S E M B t, Y....t t.,....,, ,.t)x ç .t ' . ..) ' s'r A. 'r e: o v. , u t. , e4 o 1 sJ
.' =:' . r . .4'6:L.z:;z:'%+s*
114.
Rep . Arthur A . Telcser : ''Are there amendments from tlàe f loor? ''
Jack o'Bri'en: ''Amendment no.. Pierce. Amend Senate Bill 149
line 9, by inserting immediately after the period the
following; 'If this act is held invalid by the. Illinois
Supreme Court before July 1, 1973, the amount appropriated
in this act shall be transferred into common school 'funds,
shall be distributed immediately to the public school dist icts
and in proporEion to the distribution of funds provided by
section 18-8 of the school codem''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Lake, Representative
Pierce.''
Daniel M. Pierce: ''Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the 1.10 se
last year when the aid to non-public school bills were
declared unconstitutional by tie Illinois Supreme Court,
the $29,000,000 that had' bpen appropriated by this General
Assembly ah- .for education lapsed. And went to naut. A1
this amendment does, it doesn't hurt the bill in any way.
A11 it does is that if the 'Illinois Supreme Court, in theM
fiscal year'73, befor'e July 1, 1973, declares the non-publ c
school aid bill' to be unconstitutional then the money appr p-
riated in that bill will go Eo the common school fund for
diskribution to the public schools. This money is in the
Govqrnor's budget for education and there's no use having
it lapse and go to naut, merely because the Illinois supre e
Court should hold the bills unconstitutional as they did
last year. Now if the ccurt holds the bill constitutional
then of course . this m'oney will go to the non-public schoo s ,(.,ee:' .,t to 'the private and parochial scllools . A1l the amendment says.# j' VN' t t., ,.- . .L ''R175 r.q h G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Y/1 j.k.:. -:,),) svaxc or Iuu,ao's$ v jkj .'T , ' ' ' @ / s cj u s s . o s jp u s a u s u oj v a v j v js shx ., ; .xe
115.
the Sûpreme Court. during the coming fiscal year, durin
fiscal '73 on or before July 1973 holds the act unconst'tuo
tional, then the money welve approp/iated, will go to thepublic schools to the common school fund
, for distribution
to a11 the public schools in the state to help releive our
real estate and personal property taxes. Mr. Speaker, I
move fore the adoption of amendment no. 1''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' ''Gentleman from cook, Rcpresentœ ive
Schlickman.''
Eùgene E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen
of the House I respectfully differ with the gentleman from
Lake. The Illinois Supreme Court, in January of this year
did not declare the state aid to non-public school bills
passed by this Gpneral Assembly to be vnconstitutional.
Rather the Supreme Court said that the bills were not effe tiveuntil Jul'y l of this year. Mr. Speaker, and ladies andgentlemen of the House this amendment
, in itself raises an
unrelated sonstitutional question. Number two, the way inwhich public education is funded in the state of Illinoiswould make this amendment, if adopted, a useless act. But
Mr. Speaker, at this time, 1 would like to raise a point o
order. The point of order being this; that by the gentlem n1samendment he is in no way amending, or relating to the substance
of the bill or the previous bill which would be implementeby this bill, and I raise the question as to wheth
er or no
the amendment is germane. ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Ah. . .Representative Schlickman. the C air... . :. pi ik.:k z : ,J . .
....'' a.% '. ik dztq ? rrin> c) G E N E It A L A S S E M B L Yj k: -.a Q, ., ù ) s ,r wv s o e , s u j ,., ., sç. . jc s: ,
. i.-,'.-:. ' - ' souse oc recel: csuax av, vcs.y ' ' ' ' +? :. ..1. ' Y'Y
116.
has ruled that your point is well taken and that amendment
no. l is not german e to senate Bill 1498. Gentleman from
Lake, Representative Pierce.''
Daniel M. Pierce: uAh...Mr. Speaker, I know you want to avoid
a vote on this amendment. I do want to point out to you
which perhaps you didn't notice, this is the appropriation
bill. The amendment in no way increases the appropriation
it maintains it where it is. It only provides a back up.
Like 'the short center fielder used to db to the second
baseman back in soFtball' a back up in case ah-'- the law
.is declared unconstitutional. so that we save this money
ah...for the school children of our state. Now, you gave
no reason and neither did ah...Mr. Schlickman for the amen ment
not being àha.vgermana. He chose to speak against it, bef re
he made his motion. But at any rate, he didn't state a
reason and you didn't state a reason, and I can only decid
that soheone has predetermined that we shouldnlt have a vo e
on this amendment. I ask you to reçonsider having respect
for the Chair, I won't move to overrule the Chair, because
I have 'too much respect for the speaker, the acting speake
and the permanent speaker. 'But I wish you would reconside
this, perhaps you didnlt realize tbat this was only the
appropriation bill, and not the substânent bill.'' I
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''No Representative Pierce, the Chairr
'
has the appropriation bill before it, right now, and the
Chair will hold to its ru'ling that amendment no. complet ly
changes the thrust of Senate Bill 1498 to a dif ferent area
s..eT' ' '% And would theref ore not be gerzna nq . Are there further amendmentr.$ 'ib ç .3> fcj'h ( ; E N E lt A L A' S S I -1 M 11 L Y, t' 4px .t f yv 4, : . à,,ti-*.t. : ) s v ,. v e o c I u u ' ,. o ' sk.' 44/, .= . ,. ' s o ta s s o e a c 1, 14 c s c sl v a 'r I v c s
..#re. ,. qwv.i
117.
Third reading. Senate Bill 1489..'
Jack O'Brien: ''SenateBill 1489. A Bill for an a'ct to promote
the Education of.children of ihis state and to attend non-
public schools. Second reading of the bill. No committee
amendments-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there amendmenb s from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1497.''I
Jack.o&Brien: ''Sënate Bill 1497. A Bill for an act making an
appropriation to the Superintendent of Public Instruction.
Second reading of the bill. No committee amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are There amendments from the floor?''
Jack O'Brien: ''Amendments no. Pierce, amend Senate Bill l49
' on line 9, by inserting immediately after the period the
following; 'If this' act is held invalid by the Illinois
Supreme Court before July 1, 1973, the amount appropriated
in this act Shall be trànsferred to the common school fund'
shall be distributed immediately 6o ihe public school.dist icts
in portiop tp the distribution of funds provided by sectio
18-8 of the schocl code.'l
Daniel M. Pierde: .'Ah...Mr. Speaker, this amendment was given
to me by the lobbying organization for the public school
districts in my area, in Lake county, in surburban cook
county and Dupage county area. Now I.feel it% germane and
in case the gentleman from cook is going to make the same
motion he made before, because it is an appropriation to
the Superintendent of Public Instruction and the amendment'
also is an appropriation to the superintendent of Public
..h.'j''''.,.. . in'struction, only if the bill is deelared unconstitutional,?f1 e-rpake N. (; E N E jt A L A s s E M B t. Y/ ..::J rj
,t. z , ,s. jjt w fu't . . ; , s'rA'rs o rz 9 uut-olsk tztz f : . . s o u sc o s rz cs a u ss s; v a x 1 v ss#l, . b.s*
l
118.
so that the children of the state can have the benefit of
the money that is in the Governorts budget and has been
approved by the Ilouse approprlations. committee. And there ore,I move the adoption of amendment no. 1, which is substanki lly
the same as the amendment we discussed a minute ago, thatwill provide that in the current fiscal year
, fiscal '73,
the èoming fiscal year, the bill is declared unconstitutio al
.then thp appropriation will not lapse and go baek but will
stay with the ehildren and go to the common school fund.''Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook
, Represente i eSchlickman.''
Eugene E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of' the House, amendment no. l to Senate 'Bill 1497 is identica
to amendment no. 'to the previous Senate Bil1, read for
a second time. I again raise the point of order that the
amendment is nok germane, and Ln as much as the Gentleman
from Lakp county would be engaging in a diversion ah. -
'.lea ing
away from the bill that is'to be implemented. Mr. Speaker.-* ' :
respectfully solicit your ruling on the germanaess of th samendment.n'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Chair would rule, sir, that justas in the prior bill, âmendment no .
'l to Sena'te Bill 1497
would not be germane.. Xre there further amendments? Thir
reading. Senate Bill 1499.:,
Jack O'Brien: nSenate Bill 1499. A Bill for an act creatingthe Illinois Educational Development Board
. Second readinof the bill. No committee amendments-''
. q.K z. s4 .). ! -3774 % G E N E R A 1
- A j S 1.! M 8 L Y# . ,. .. :.-x,.,;%b.; ).);t '. ..v ./ s'ra'rs os Iuu'so's. stt-/'r. . . .. ë Ho u S E o F lz c BF4 c sE :4 T AY I V l:s. '/ t: . . . %v%''t ..
119.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are ther amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1496.''
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1496. Bill for an act making an
appropriation to the Suptlintendent of Public instruction.
Second reading of the bill. 'No committee amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are then amendments from the floor?''
Jack OlBrien: ''Amendmënt no. Pierce, Amend Senate Bill 1496
in line 8 by inserting immediately after the pericd the
followingr '......''
Rep. Arthur A.Telcser: ''Gentleman from Lake, Representative
Pierce.''
Daniel M. Pierce: ''Ah...Mr. Speaker, having only two strikes
against me, I'm nerely getting a third swing at the plate
here. Before I strike out. I'd like to offer amendment no l
which does the same thing.' Ifs germane because it takes '
. . the money and makes sure it stays with the school children
I might point out that from khe common school fund there
is driver's education money,'there is lunch money and so.oH
on to go to non-public schools. So certainly amendment no
l is germane. Instead of this money going back to some
highway or some ah.o-drivers license examining station, or
scme other secondary need, it would go to the school child en
of our state and I feel this amendment in no way de..viakesu'
from the bill. It only says that if.the bill is unconstit -
tional, aq it may be, then the money will be used for khe
school children of our state. If the bill is constitution l
jas the sponsor maintains, ah . . ethen o course the money wi 1
,w.-'' .k go where he intends it to go , to the non-public schools- a-ndz'b t-nx'G'. c E x (.; jl A j. a s s p: M n L vz. -t n.. .. : :
ï; Q t e. r.%e. j/ smaxju o s. I t-ulm o1sî . .j . .,' k.! .=' ' - sowsc 0!,. s cen cssNv avlve:s1'' D ' %*%*
120.
that certainly is a good use. I might say, if t14i.s amendm nt
is.adopted, I will suppor't the non-public school.aid bills ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser! ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Schlickman-''
Eugene E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen
of the House, this amendment is identical to the amendment
offered previously by the gentleman from Lake, as I indica ed
the first time, this amendment in and of itself raises a
constitutional question'unrelated to the merits of the bil 's
before us at this time. Furthermore, by the way public
education is funded, the adoption of this amendment would
be a useless act. Mr. Speaker, because in my opinion the
amendment is lacking in germm- ss, I raise a point ,of ord r
and solicit your ruling on that issue.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: '''The Chair will rule sir that your po'i t
is well taken and amendment no. l to Senate Bill 1496 is
not germana. Gentleman from Lake, Representative. Pierce.''
Daniel M. pieHece: ''Ah...Mr. speaker, think the ah.e.catcher
' dropped that khird strike,and I'm' going to first-' Thank
you very muchm''
Rep. 'Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there further amendments? Third
reading. senate Bill 1511.''
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1511. A Bill for an act to create
the Illinois Commission of Labor Laws. Second reading of
the bill. No committee amendments.''
Rep/ Arthur A. Telcser:' ''Are there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1548.''
. .& tir'.l'âs . ,,..';j t ' ''j $1 a'y. .. . .. ( -,7% - G fl N E It A L A S S E M B L Y(1 kj .,k-,, .' .js.j.), s .,g a.r ,, o -; . u u . - o ' sk. 1 .t* .U'
s. pI otlsc o F' R u p. 14 ss E N 'r n 'r ! v e: s*' dz . .. h e!.!! ... .. . . .... .. .. .
121.
Jack öuBrien' ''Senake Bill 1548. A Bill for an act to. provide
for the development of a 'System for the improvemçnt of
Education Effectiveness. Second reading of the bill. No
commiktee amendments-''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there any amendments from the f1o r?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1549.''
Jack O'Brien: ''Senate Bill 1549. A Bill for an act making an
appropriation for the Painting of the Portrait of the form r
Prpsident Pro-Temp. Second reading of the Bill. No commi tee
amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcse<: ''Are there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1555...
Jack O'Brien: nSenate Bill 1555. A Bill for an act making an
appropriation for the Superintendent of Public Instruction
Second Reading of the Bill. One committee amendmeti . Ame d
Senate Bill 1555.....'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Frank Wo1T .''
. F. C. kolf! ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of. the Hous
Senate Bill 1555 appropriates $176,000,000 for the common
School fund of the Superintendent 'of Public Instruction. *
Ah...for the following seven purposes. The main two purpo es
which embodies approximately $169,000,000 of the $176,000, O0.
It pertains to the state of Illinoié Teachers Retirement
System ih the amount of $124,000,000, and the ah.- other
'one is' the city of lnicago's Teachers Retirement reducing,
that is the original appropriation of $44,000,000 ah-.-the'
& uv.u >,.'$ tuxy.,A zn.n , c E x E R A L. A s s c M IJ L. v,'. .. kj j kl ï .k... ,.) b%j k ) svsxs o p. ., uul ., o Isf. .
. t. ? =: . ' v .-. ..6 o u SE o e R t: I F4 E s E rq T n T 1 u E si . 4, j , kvo.
122..
yyyno.sagreed amendment: amendment 2 reduces the state of I#
Teachers retirement system from $124,000,000 to that of $9 ,000,
000. And Ehe city of Chicago Teacherfs Retirement from
$44,000,000 to $26,700,000. Ah.o.its an agreed amendment
with the Superintendent of Public Instruction and I move
for the adoption of amendment 2 to Senate Bill 1555.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Kane, Representati e. . s.,k ). l . ,,
John Jerome HilL: ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of th
House, I'm opposed to this particular amendment'. What it
does is put the pension funds for the downstate teachers
and also for the Chicage teachers in a much lower percenta e
again. And if we defeat this particular amendment the fun
will be funded at approximately for downstate, 65% apd fo
Chicago, 65%. If we adopt the amendment we're drœxng it
again dovn to about 40 or 441. And I'd appreciate very mu h
if you would vote against this particular amendment. And 'd
like to hive a roll call vote on ita''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? If not
the Gentleman from cook , Representative Frank Wolf to clos
the debate-''
F. C. Wolf: ''Ah...Mr. Speaker and ladiek and gentlemen of the
House I don't know whether Mr. Hill is aware of the fact
that I fought the amendment on in committee, and purposl
had ah-m.not that I had, or requested the amendment to be
voted down. But the point'is I fought it t00th and nail
and asked for the $124,000,000. And if you will recall, M .
.... q s . ! f ,zu' ,' b : a.?.n'- j c s x E 11 A t, A s s lï M 13 t. v, q .. , .j :./ j (. ! , , ,q.; ) j( sjk: .. f ! , s'ra'rir o re l uu lr4o Is? r! 'F . '%
%( V . H o u s c o rr n c e n c s c hl 'r A. 'r $ v c s': l f . N '%%*', v . I
123.
Hill that this particular amendment lost, and I had a stan
off. Then we went back again and we sat down with the spo sor
f the bill ur.' collins, as well as with his staff, and iO ,
was agreed. And I will agree with Mr. Hill, that these
funds for the retirement system are not funded properly by
the state and the stake has an obligation and I stated
previously at the committee meeting that we are not funding
and funding properly. And the question was put to me the
other day and that answer to Mr. Tipsword, as to what the
fundings were for these two particular entities. And I ma e
itie's the Chicaga statement that these two particular ent ,
Teachers as well as that of the downskate teachers, are so
unfunded that is to say they're obligation is so.great the
Kerued liability there at this present time is $1,300,000. 00.
And here I try to get the fairest shake I probably could,
get out of the budgetary system. It isnît I that asked
.for this particular amendment, I asked for the full amount
of the budget requested for funding of these particular
two entities. And therbfore, I feel, Mr- Hill, if your
listening that the point that since this is an agreed amen ment,
and I feel for you, that if you do want to take off at any
time against this particular bill: do not hinder this part'cular
bill at this time. And if you do care to call a conferenc
committee, where we can get a full funding, which would be
probable on third reading.or when that'pàrticular amendmen-
reaches the Senate, then have the Senate come back for us
to recede from the amendment so we can go into a conferenc. oa +: . % J l yz .x J 4?''A '..y D>. rk G E N E 11 A L A ,S .S E M 13 L YI , ..k t . . .' ! s> u s.r ,% x c o s 1 uu , ,q o I s-h. t)$-:'.- n.v..%'. . ,,.u ss oc Ia seu sscsvav , w csf .,
. . .-.
124.
committee and get the full .funding.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman has offered to move the
adoption of amendment no. 2 to Senate Bill 1555. Al1 thos
in favor of the adoption signify by voting'aye' the oppos d
by voting 'no'. Gentlçman from Christian, Representative
Tipsword.n
Rolland F. Tipsword! ''Mr. Speaker,' IId like to exm lain my vote
I appreciate the fact that the House Sponsor of this bill
has done everything possible to get khe full funding for t isj ' .j ' year, and I know that he has done that for the 'appropriati nsI
.
committee and I'm sure he feels in his heart that we shoul
have full funding. I think that we should keep faith for
once., for khis one year, one time ouk of the many many yea s
that this funding has come before thig legislature, keep
faikh with the teachers of this state . Those that are
etired 'and those that are to retire in the state of Illin isr
in the future. We have given 1ip service time and time ag in
to the fact that we should fund them fully, but that every
year they come up on the short end of the stick. W keepr$
cutting out the funding that is neccesary and that we have
obligated ourselves for in legislation year and year back.
I would certain urge that every me%ber of this body, one
time, one time skand up for these retired teachers and te1
them look we're going to mee t the obligation that we have
welre going to fund you fully, for at least this one year.
although we don't make up 'any of that $1,300,000,000 that e
owe to you, and we're going to cut out some of the other
. J. ?J*RPn%I G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y: j. ) s, jj' ost: ...k ; L; ) svxve os , uuls,o , s. (,.j?. n't . ï . z. H O u s E: Q F e' e: F? R E S E 11 T A T I v E S't , . . T s%''
125-
unYvbssary spending of the state of Illinois. Thank you.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Have
a1l voted who wiyh? Hyde. 'aye' Take the record. NoF1 'has moved that we adopt amendment no. 2 tothe gent eman
Senate Bill 1555 be adopted, and a roll call was requested
On this question there are 85 'ayesf 32 'nays'. And the#
gentleman's motion to adopt amendment no . 2 to Senate Billl
.1555 prevails-, Are there further amendments? Third readi g
Senate Bill 1563.11
Fredric Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1563. An act to make an approp
riation for the pay of certain officers in the Judicial
syskem of the state government. Second reading of the bil .' No committee amendments- ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1564.''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1564 . An act to provide for t e
ordinary and contingent expenses of the Judicial Systek.
Second reading of the bill. No committee amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: 'tAre there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1571. ''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1571. An act to add sections
1.3, l.4 and 1.5 to an'act requirin: hospikal surrend'œinghospital emergency scrvice in case of emergency or a
c utemedical condition. And to implemenk emergency hospital
medical and surgical services. Second reading of the billNo committee amendmentsu''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser! ''Are there amendments from the floor?'
'Jr $ t -,'olt 4 G E N :3 .:1 A L A S S E M B L Y,.: : (y . . .. . . ,q ?.l -f- < . l -!; - 1. sv s x s.l o p. , uu , ,q o , s.( - -zr . , . , .. ..t . s oo s o o p. r4 cla n cs s sl 'r A. x $ w cs*r. . . ze**
126.
Eredric B. Selcke: ''Amendment no. 1, Berman, amend Senate nill
1571 as amended on page by striking lines 1- 7 and inser ingj-in lieu thereof the following section 1
.5. no mobile orintensive care .. . . . ''
Rep. Arthuf Telcser: nGentleman from cook , RepresentativeBerman . ''
Arthur L.'Bermant ''Thank you Mr. Spealcer. Ladies and gentlemen
.of the House Senate Bill 1571 is a bill which would allow
a hospital to conduct pilot programs in intensiue care
mobile type of operations. In other words, where paramed'cs,people who are trained in emergency care vonld be in touch
with doctors and nurses at a hospital, and could render ce tain
' emergency treatment to people who are undergoing ah. a -emer ency
types of ahx..injury, heart attacks, etc. Now the bill is
presented to us as a provision there which would avoid the
legal obligaéions that are presently imposed upon doctorsnurses, and other persons. . . o .and other persons who arê
required to exefcise due care when they treat us. the bi1
provides, before my amendment, that there be no civil liab li-
ties for any wrong doing by the doctor the nurse or the pa a-medic unless there was willfull and wanton negligence. An
those of you who are lawy' ers know ihat you could. . . .khere 's
no reasonable way that you could prove'willful and wanten
neglùgence. So what the bill is saying now, is that if yo be
treated by a paramedic that if something wrong is done in ourtreatment you really haqe no way to bring a law suit or torecaver damages f or that wrong that would be done
. Amendm nt.. ,. h .. ; ', .,q<s$ J ' v. '
'' ? .h (-'.L> S';jh G E N E R A L A S S E 51 B L Yé :# ;t : ' ,;.p y. f.c)t 1 . ) ) s.rave os ' uuI p.o lsl j :ê. rtr. . )'
srjcjsc o v. sseusssavwv tv cs%t: , , . .-. .
127.
number one seeks to give some protection to the copsumer.
To the'person who is injured, to the person who needs this
medical care and at the same time amendmenk nulaber one see s
. to give some immunity to the area of trainees, paramedics,
who have taken some training, and if he follows the instru tions
of the doctor or the nurse, he would not be subject t'o civ'lliability. thin'k this is an important apendment to a bi l
which is starting to undergo some pilot programs. I think
that we have to safeguard the rights of the patients in hi
recourse tcwards 1aw suits and civil liability if there is
improper action taken in his treatment . I would urge an
a'ffirmative vote on amendment number one to senate bill 15 1. 1'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nGentleman from cook . Representative
schlickman.''
Eugene E. Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker and ladies and gentlemen of
' the House I rise to express my opposition to this amendmen'
to Senate Bill 1571. If it is adopted it will effectively
nnln'fy the.program contained 'in this bill. House Bill l57
authorizes hospitals to conduck pilot programs for. the del'very
of emergency medical care to the sick and injured at the s ene
of an emergency and during transportation to a hospital an
until care and responsibility can be assumed by the regula
hospital staff. The bill further provides for certificati n
of personnel authorized to' perform specified emergency car
functions under the supervision, direct supervision, by aphysician or registered professional nurse. Further more,
Mr. Speaker and ladies ahd gentlemen of the House, the bi1
' ,7.:% * n>>' '-eà G E N E R A t, A s s E M 11 t, Y. y. s 43 ï ' *' N. qz j.'AX . f .r ) svlvc o s. I uul,q o,sl -
,' =- * '
w'if . 11 okl sc o F R L E> f? E $ E: N 'r >. 'r j v E: S. .;, . ...*
128.
provides that a report shall be given to the General Assem ly
on ,the operation of these pilot programs at least twelve m nths
but no more than fifteen months following the exception of
these programs. Now this bill is part 6f a program to cre te
a statewide system of emergency care. The program in ques ion
i imarily concerned with heartattack victims. The majos prpurpose of the proposed bill is to allow përsonn e1, under
direct supervision of physicians and registered nurses, to
administer certain drugs in assistance to the victim . Wit out
these provisions these personnels, these paramedics as the
are popularly. commonly referred to, will be clearly in
violation of the nursing practices act. In addition, if w
are to remove the liability for common, ordinary negli,genc
on the part of the physicians and registered nurses, ke .wo ld
clearly be precludin: such â program kithout this aùthorlz tion.
Now this bill, in its present form, is supported by every
group that I am aware of, except for the trail attorneys o
IllinoisaM What we are doing by this bill is amplifying th
' good samaritan principle previously adopted by thé General
Assembly. I respectfully' solicit, Mr. Speaker and ladies
a'nd gentlemen, in order to maintain the integrity of this
program, in order to provide the protection and the care t at
is needed ah...by victims away from a hospital, that this
amendment number one to senate Bill 1571 be defeated.''
Rep. Arthur A.'Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Gentlem n
from Wayne, Representative Blades-''
Ben C. Blades: ''Now you've got me a little confused on this, t e,.. q.ss .. ;1 ,, ;;y.' s t''-;'?'x q G E N E 11 A L A S S E 51 B L Yt -'is?.t- '(p. s:i svwvs os kuu,solss ç
,t. k - ' ' -)s s) . . , .. ('.bt.' aousc os oceacscnvxvlw cs. .,, (. . . s.%''
129.
way the amendment was explained as ah- . .Representative
Schlickman is saying. understood the amendment to be
explained that is was protecting a doctor so he wouldn't
be liable, or the paramedics wouldn't be liable. A4at's
not true huh?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' ''The gentleman from cook, Representati e
Berman could respond to that, Sir.''
Arthur A Berman' ''The purpose of the amendment, there was qui e
a bit of noise then and I don't blame you for not understa ding.
The purpose of the amendment is to provide immuhity to the
paramedics. That's the trainee, like the ambula nce cperat r,or the firemen. If he follows a doctors or nurses instruc ions
,
under my amendment....under my amendment he would still be
protected. 'But my amendment does not provide ir nunity. for
the drctor or the nurse from their obligation to excercise
R high de'gree of professional care in giving those instruc ions.''Ben C. Blades: ''Wel1, O-K, understand.''
Rep. Arthur A. Ielcser' ''Gentleman from Lake, Representative
Matejevich.''
John S. Matijevich: ''Mr. Speaker, and members of the House, ah ..
I rise also to oppose the ame'ndment. Ah...I know how impo tant'
that this bill is in its present stâte to try to have I11i ois
at least take that first step in making sure that we provi egood medical emergency care. So often people die because
they haven't received good medieal attention right at thescene, and I think this bil'l would go a long way in provid ng
that. The practical effect, I think, of the amendment wou d. , .% . - : & * rag, ' b '.r>%rl G E N E R A j- A s s E M 1) t, Y./e,J - .) Qx.
- . r . ' .% j î ) s .r a v. c o r.. I t. u , ,. o 1 sf.z -1. '
. j yî *22* ' ' * . s o t/ s c o s' s E. e a c s u; N 'r > 'r $ v c sx ' %+f 6. .:.1 . 1 *
130.
be that we would be placing this bill in jeopardy. Ah....I've, as you know, sponsored a physicians assistance bill.
And.the real reason why we haven't gone anywhere with phys'cians
assistance in Illincis, is this matker of liability. And
I think that if we place this amendment on the bill, ah...
I'm sure thak the physicians in Illinois will do a11 khey
can .to kill the bill. I want this bill'passed and I think
the way to pass it is without the amendment. An'd I would
urge the defeat of ah...Representa* ivq Berman's amendment-'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook Representative
Glass . ''
Bradley M. Glass: ''Thank yoa Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yi ld
for a question?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcserr ''He indicates he will.''
Bradley M. Glass: ''Art, simply stated, would your amendment ma e
h dic liable for ord'inary negligence?''t e parame
Arthur L. Berman: ''Not if he follows the instructions of theiI Doctor or the Nurse.'' v' ' Bradley M. Glass: ''Well, as I understcod your expla .nation bef re,
aho..khe way the bill is now drafted. the paramedic would
only be liable for willful and wanteness. Is 'that correct.'l
Arthur L. Berman: ''An'd so .would the doctor and the nurse.''
Bradley M. Glass: ''Alright; but then if the amendment makes th
paramedic liable for ah-o..removes the liability in those
cases, he is liable, it seems to me, for his ordinary negl'gence.
As well as for the willful'and wantoness.''
Arthùr L. Berman: ''Would you rephrase that again?''
. ç . A u -;' . ' :z 4.%% . (j ' a *7: ' . '.Z)4 .z.. ï e;'?a Cr .' G F N E R A L zi S S E M B L Y4-. 'r ' . ko t . r .l o. vk . . .t) s'rA'rs os I uu1 nols. ' . Ly.v , . c #. . %'. . .. elotpsi or R cpR EscN'r AT 1 u cs. #/, %.s* '
131.
Bradley M. Glassz ''We1l, I would like to maybe hear the langua e
of the' amendment, because, as I say, from your elpla; natio
its talking about willful and wanto ness ah- . .it seemed to
me what the amendment would do would be .to make the parame ic
liable for his ordinary negligence. ''
Arthur L. Berman: ''Ah- . gthat's not the purpose of the amendmen .
be g1ad...I'l1 read it to you if you want ah. . .here i
is; 'Mobile intensive care personnal, that's the paramedic,
shall be liable for civil damages as a result of following
the instructions of a physieian or nurse, regarding the
delivery of emergency medical care to the sick and injured
ét the scene of an emergency and during transport to a hos italwhile in the hospital emergency department
, and until care
and respônsibility can be assumed by the regular hospital
staff.' Now to go further.. that language has to be viewè. in relation to what iâ in the bill before that amendment
.
And what ik reads is this; 'No physician or nurse, who in
éood faith. gives emergency instructions to a paramedic at
the scene of an emergency , nor any paramedic following any
such instruakions, shall be liable for any civil damages
ap a result of issuing or unless issuing, or following the
instructions constitutes willful and want on misconduct.l''
Bradley M. Glass: ''Well. yea and I think then, kf there's a law
suit against the paramedic, and the ùlaintiff in the law su'tcan prove .that instructions were nok followed, then he hasestablished a case under your amendment
.''
Arthur Berman : 'scorrect .1'*
,''!> -t.e'r?:4ç) G E N E 11 A L A S S E M B L Y,î Q' . - ' t ' *. -; s v a, x s o s y u u , ,4 o I s> (z u , . q! ) ,. % tky .k .. Mr : . . . . yj o w s c o ' s a c s R c s u rq 'r A. 'r I v E sx'ls. .. %+%*a.
132.
Bradley M Glass: ''Well, then I submit to you it may have been
a negn'gent aet and not following the instruction and he
therefore, may be' liable for his ordinary negligence, and
I can certainly see, kf that's the case, the concern of th
sponsor of the bill.''
Arthur L. Berman! ''We1l, I think we have to put this into a
proper concept without getting tied up with the question o l:e
the legal comykAnexities, and khat is this; we have to presu e
that the paramedic, the reason for this program is that th y're
going to send ambulance operators and other people that ar
going to be in that ambulance, they're going to send them
to a school, that they're going to take certain courses, t at
they're going to be certified in this training to. follow,
in detail, the instructions of a medically qualified perso e
mainly a doctor or a nurse. .We have to start out with tha
presumption. If we don't have thak'presumption then the b 11
has no purpose. So assuming that the bill has a good purp se,
. and youlvd gét qualified paramedics that are trained to fo 'low
a doctor or a nurse's instructions, then, in order to prot ct
i t ou have to leave some liability, somebod'y th tthe pat en , y
'he can look to, to exercise reasonable care in the giving
of those instructions. Tkat's whya in my amendment, I wan
to rekain the professional responsibility of the doctor or
the nurse who gives the instructions to that paramedic.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentlcman from Champaign, Representat ve
Clabaugh.''
Charles W. Clabaugh! MMr. Speaker, I move the previous questio .''
kt ..s.L - . - . .- -., a
'
a .I. '' . .' , J . '%%.
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'.mt . ry, . ..* %Cr ' . H o u s c o F 14 c e R e: s s: N 'r a 'r I u e: s. ' %+ ...' '. 2 .. ' * '
133.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman has moved the previpus ques ion.
A1l those in favor signify by saying 'aye', opposed 'no'.
Gentleman from cook, Representative Bem an to close the de ate . ''
Artliur L . Bem an : ''Thank you Mr. Speaker, I .would only caution
on the vote of this amendment . Gentleman if any of you'
thave a heart attack and an ambulance comes . you are no
guaranteed any recourse in any court of lal, for any of th
treatment that is given to you as a result of that heart
attack until you get to that hospital, unless my amendment
is adopted to this bill. Anything could be done to you by
that paramedic, any kind of instructions, any kind of trea -
ment, any kind of injections and you would have no recours
if they make you worse off, even if they cause you to die,
your estate would have to recourse to the ambulance operat rs,
to the paramedics, unless amendment no. l is adopted to ,
Senate Bill 1571. And Mr. Speaker, I'd respectfully reque t
a roll call vote on this amendment-''
Rep. Arthur A.x Telcser: ''Gentleman has offered to move the
. adoption of amendment no. 1 to Senate Bill 1571. . Al1 thos
in favor of the adoption signify by voting 'aye', the opposed
by voting 'no'. Gentleman from cobk, Representative Schlic an
to explain his vote-''
Eugene E- Schlickman: ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen,
in explaining my vote, if this amendment caused to tbe offe ed
by the Illinois Trail Lawyers Association is adopted, we've
.effectively nullified the program. And those victims who
in need of assistazce don't have this program, they won'tare
. .. : . % ! * ê' t,w. xt* ': i.<n..,'-. L G E N E It A L, A s s E M 15 L Y, : jj. j .. thl v;( . . ' ?' : . I s'r a'rt: o >' I t-u' N o I s. ' c: ' . ''( / . ? . ld t!l tl s e: O F' R E e i < E: Q; E P4 T A 'r 1 Y! E S%t1 $e%6
134.
be alive to worry about a law suit. As I indicated, the
bill in its original form authorizes hospitals to conduct,
and engage in pilot programs with a report back to the
General Assembly between twelve and fifteen months after t e
G inception of the program. I think its incumbent upon this
body, Mr. Speaker and ladi es and gentlemen of the House, t
give the program a try and defeat this amendment.''
Rep.'Arthur A . Teldser: ''Gentleman from cook, Represente ive
Berman.''
Arthur L. Berman: ''l'd like to correct the previous speaker.
This bill was not suggested by any association, it was my
amendment, and I would like to know where he got the info a-
tion as to who's request this was.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative M nn.''
Robert E. Mann: ''Mr. Speaker, and members of the House, I justwant Representative Berman to know that I appreciate the
proport of the amendment, Art, and ah...I will be the 'firs
. one to support you ah...if in fact, we find ah...that the
quality of care is resulting ah...in ah.g.injury to person
ah.e.and there's no recourse. But I ap concerned that if'the amendment prevails, at least I have been told, ah . . .th t
the bill would then be opposed by the very people who arei 11now ah
- .supporting it.11 11Rep
. Arthur A. Telcser: Have a1l voted who....Gentleman from
, Lake Mr. Murphyo''#
'
W . J'.. Murphy: Mr. Speaker, urge some green votes because
I believe what kepresentative Schlickman and Representativ
6 .h q'rpvlZ G E N E R A j. A s g (j M jj j. Y; , .:.:r4c 4.
,,j .. x.. jj )1 j. x . ;..g ty s'rxve os t t-ulN oIs* 'CJ .Y' ' ' * jx o w s j: o s 14 c e a c s c p4 v A. 'r 1 v c s. ''f I I Y*. ' 2 1 l '
135..
says, that if we get it on there it will kill the bill, so
l urge some green votes up there.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have a1l voted who wished? Take the
record. On this question there are 31 'ayes', 87 'nays'.
And the Gentleman's motion to adopt amendment no. to
Senate Bill 1571 fails. Are there further amendments?
Third reading. Senate Bi1l.. . .l606.''
Fredrick B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1606. An act to make an appr p-
riation to the Commission on Labor Laws. Second reading o
the bill. No committee amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1542.',
'Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1542. An act to make an appro -
riation for the ordinary and contingent expenditures to th
Department of Mental Health. Second reading of the bill.
One committee amendment. Amend Senate Bill 1542 on page 3
line 4 by deleking $1,321 900 and inserting in lieu thereo ,. '
$1,171, 900. andsoforth.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nGentleman from Jackson, Representa iv
Rose....or Morgan, Representative Rose.''
ThomAs C. Rose: nThis commiktee amendment results in a total
reduction from the orig'inal amount Eo be appropriated of
$401.6 thousand dollars. I'd move ite adoption.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser' nIs there any discussion? Gentleman i
offered to move the adoption of amendment .no. to Senate
Bill 1542. All in favdr of the adoption signify by saying
'aye'. Opposed 'no'. The amendment is adopted. Are ther
!vxsl) )) T awu . . , . ..'.3 5 ,'7;.'> 'hj ' (; E N E R A L A S S E M 11 L Y... : -$ .t. .
,/j kc . lo . - ) , . svxa. s .g , uu l o, o , s9- (- ', c: ., .) . , , '$ .) .< . $ y ' H o u s r: o rr a c r 1: c s c rq 'r A 'r , v e; s
136. .
further amendmentsa''
Fredriç B. Selcke' ''Amendmeht no. Palmer, Amend S.enate Bill
1542 on page 19.....''
Rep'. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Represente ive
Bill Walsh.''
W. D. Walsh: ''Mr. Speaker. and ladies and gentlemen of the Hou e,
I'm handling this amendment for Representative Palmer. It
adds $438,600 to the appropriations for the Department of
Mqntal Hea1th. This is for 100 Mental Health aids, 50 at
Dixon State School, and 50 at Lincoln State School. And
These aids are to be used in the non-ambulatory wards to a ...
bring these wards up a little bit from the very poor stand rds
they've had. Represenkative Palmer tells me that ah..othe e
is no objection to this, he has checked with b0th sides cf.
' .
the aisle, and I move the adoption of amendment no. 2.
Rep. Arthur .A. Telcser: ''Is there any discussion? Gentleman
has offered to move the adoption of amendment no tot
Senate Bill 1542. A11 in favor of the adoption signify by
saying 'aye', the opposed 'no'. ' And the amendment is adopt d.
Are there further amendments? Third reading. Senate Bill
,1353..'
Fredric B. Selcke' ''Senate Bill 1353. An act to amend Section
2 of an act relating to a certain revenue bond. Second
! reading of the bill. No committe a'mendments.''i
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there.amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1326.'1
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1326. An act to provide for th
. y. . '.ky. > ',,;:. xK '$ G E s E R A L, A s s E :1 B L v;' :' l --'-N 71; y: , x j(; oli-!'. . ,' ) ) s v ,. v e o r.' ' u u . ,q o ' sj , , . % CY ' ' ' ' . jx o u) s
' tc o lr R c yp :4 E s c N T' A. T' 1 v L s.2 ,, .-.
137.
ordinary and conkingent expenses of the Department of Labo .
Second reading of the bill. One committee amend.ment. Amel d
Senate.....''
Reg. Artkur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
ccllins.'
Philip Collins: ''Ah...Mr. Speaker, ladies and gentlemen of the
House, Senate Bill 1326 is the annual appropriation of the
Department of Labor. Committee amendment no. l is a reduc ion
of $26,000 which was adopted unanimously in committee, and
I would move for the adoption of amendment no. 1.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nIs there any discussion? Gentleman h s
offered to move the adoption of amendment no. l to Senate
Bill 1326. All in favor of the adoption signify by saying
'ayes, opposed lnol. The amendment is adopted. Are .there
further amendments?. Third .reading. . Senate Bill 1338. ''.
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1338. An act to make an appro -
riation to the ordinary and contingent expemses of the
Legislative Audit Commission. Second reading of the bill.
. No committee amendments.n
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: nAre there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. Senate Bill 1556.'/
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1556. An act creating a schoo . . .
'.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Simmons for what purp se#
'
do you rise, Sir?n
Arthur E. Simmons: ''On that last bill, wasn't there a committe
.amendment? Digest says so.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''1j38? No, there were no conaittee. .: oy--''èl' k o7 '/ . . (''-t-T$ -'j G E N E 11 A L A S S E 51 8 L Yt ,..# '(( : .- os j !$,- f.
./-!u.: .:r..-,) . ,, s'rA'r'z o e. ' uu'eq o1s
'k.- 2,L's-v.,''.-.. . ' Hot'se: C''- ''L'''R E/E''''' A'r' %' ':s
13 8 .
amendmenks offered, Representative Simmons.'.
Arthur E. Simmons: ''Well, I have a notatiôn, the ah...digest'
says, recommend do pass, as amended. And then I show ah..
a reduction of $8,500.,'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''I don't know why, Senate Bill 1338. a ...
well the clerk informs me that the digest is in error on
occasion, and aho.he's checking it right now.''
Fredric Selcke: ''Its one page bill, with no amendments.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Senate Bill 1556.1'
Fredric B. Selcke: ''Senate Bill 1556. An act creating school
district surveyed to study the organization structure of
public schools in the state, state financial policies. Se ond
reading of the bill. No committee amendments.u
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there amendments from the floor?
Third reading. House Bills third reading. House Bill 464 .''
Fredric B. Selcke: &sHouse Bill 4645. Bill for an act to amend
the Township zoning act. Third reading of the bill.''
Rep. Arthur A.-Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative'' .
Mcpartlin.''
Robert F. Mcpartlin: ''Mr. Speaker, could I ask leave to have'
House Bill 4646 heard with 4645, they are companion bills?'
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Are there any'objections? Hearing no
objections, will the clerk please read House Bill 4646 a
third time?''
Fredric B. Selcke: ''House Bill 4646. An act to add section 58
to an act concerning public utilities. Third reading of
the bil1.''
. . . , ..,; A . , j; .. ' :.k%%
.'' 8 cyr,* c E x E u A Iw A s s E u j) L vzt :>;p6 . J,
f <s. 'kk' . t * x : 4a s a. s, a. s o s 1 u u j pj o j s. (j / 'LC' 'Y . x! o H ou s E o s 12 e: p' R cs c wl 'r A 'r I v Es
E
139.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Mcpartlin.''
Robert Mcpartlin: ' ''Mr. Speaker and members of the House, Ho se
Bill 4645 does not effect the authority of the municipalit es
and county to regulate and found the control and location
of'a generating station. The current law would remain in
effect, with subject to electric generating stations to' regulations ahd appropriate cases by the following agency;
The Illinois Polution Control Board, The Environmental Pro eetion
Agency, and the Illinois Commerce Commission. Also, tbe U S....''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Hunsicker, for what pu pose
do you rise, Sir?
Carl T. Hunsicker: ''Mr. Speaker, Parlaimentary inquiry. On
4646. As a member of the elections committee and due to
the chairman of the committee happening to be in Europe, .1
understood that al1 Revenue and Appropriations bills and
constitutional anendments were suppose to be exempt catego y
bills. 1+ this correct?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
Mepartlin.''
Robert F. Mcpartlin: .''Ah...Mr. Speaker, when these bills were
introduced they were exeëpt bills, but because of an amend ent
in committee, they were not made exemp't at that time. But
they were introduced and they were exempt when they were
inkroduced.''
Carl Y. Hunsicker: ''Not exempt now, wrten the put the amendhent
on it took Ehe constitutional provisicn off, on House Bill. o' r)& ' A' C. '. x j N. .
' ?. .t77 1 G E N E R A L A S S E M 1$ L Yl Ci f '.. .!p..) i sxxv.e os . uu, xolsG v.i . / n' ... . . '* &;' f . ' .4 o k! s E: o c E? c e iv u s r.: pl 'r n 'r I v E s<. I - ::k . , .%+
140.
4646 and I'm wondering if its still considered an exempt b'll?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The Chair will rule, Sir, that in vie
of the fact the bills were within those exempt categories
at the time of introduction they would still be exempt and
properly be heard at this time.''
Robert F. Mcpartlinz ''House Bill 4646 would ye rmit electric
utllity to partition the Comme/ce Commission for the sight
investigation Authority. only, after a notice and hearing
throug'h the property owners, or owners to show a need. co ld
they authorize entry upon private property for Ehe limited
purpose of securing data. The utilities would be required
to pay any actual damages to the property arising from his
work, and I would ask for a favorable roll call on these
bills.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman from Cook, Representati e
Duf f . '1
Brian B. Duff: ''Will the sponsor answer a question. Please?''
Rep. Arthur A.eTelcser: He indicates he wi1l.''
Brian B. Duff: ''Aho..Representative Mcpartlin, as I recall, I
don't have the amendments 4646 in the boo% here, but as
recall the import of this bill is that, it would allow the
j utilities to grant authority, or have the authority to go n
to private property at any time of day or night whether th
persons who o< t the property like it or not, and conduct
investigations including ah..drilling and gounding and oth.r
similar technical efforts. Is that correct?''
Robert F. Mcpartlin: ''Yes, the amendment did, as far as the wh le
. v *1 A ' t f u.' F ))' fj * '6zn'q:' t -... a''';'''v ,- y G E N E R A L A S S E M 1$ L Y
' l ti ; 7- -J. ro4 : ) s v a v c o g. , u u ' x o , sqyftk'ky, ;' ,ry., . ,' j,owsc os nceussssvxvlwcsx.dl d: . . 1 *%*.. œ**
141.
section was concerned and on page 2, it removed the authob'ty
work during daylight hours only. It made it for daylight ours
Only-''
Brian B. Duff: ''Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to speak against t is
bill. Ah...I think we're going an awful long way when we
allow ah...this commission to grant authority to a public
utifity to go'on to the private property of any person in' the state of rllinois, ah.- day or night, and conduct such
investigations as are stipulated here. I think this is an
incursion into private rights, and property ownership and
it ib uneccessary, and without a great deal more justifica ion*
than we've heard at this time, I'd certainly have to reco end
a nc vote. On 4646.'.
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from Knox, Representative
McMaster.''
A. T. McMaster: ''Wil1 the sponsor yield to a qusstion on 4645?'
R#p. Arthur A. Telcser: ''He indicates he wi1l.''
A. T. McMaster: TMcpartlin, reading the synopsis on 4645, I wo ld
understand it to say that aho.opublic utility equipment ca not,
or Nould not be regulated by township zoning on your .bill.'
Robert F. Mcpartlin: ''Yes, it does say that, and it means that
but the other thing is that it would leave it up to the. . .
it still would remain, as far as the municipalities are co -
cerned or the county itself, not the township zoninge :'
A. T. McMaster: ''There would be no zoning responsibility if th y
are not responsible to' the township zoning, wouldn't this e
Y W C * îî
qx w e) * .. :. .. : q' jj a' 'e. ? ' : jl m>, . j G E N E R A L A S S E M B L Y/
'
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142.
Robert F. Mcpartlin: ''It makes it exempE from the township zon'ng,
VC Y * G
A. T. McMaster: ''Or any zoning then, figuratively speaking, be ause
zoning would be the township zoning, you can't zone twice.''
Robert E. Mcpartlint ''But it does go on to say that the counti s
still have the authority over khe ah...township zoning. T e
county itselfg''
A. T.. McMaster: ''You can't have an overlapping county zoning a d
townghip zoning, you only zone one. l mean your not zoned
by two zoning bodies. You don't go to two zoning bodies f r
release from zoning. For this reason I would like to ah..
reeommend opposition to this bill, certainly its exempt to
public utilities from the township zoning and in effeet/
from my estimation from any 'zoning, and they become an exe pt
body, it can go anywhere, do anything that they please, I
don't khink this is proper. think zoning is made to
regulate development in areas, and to prokect the common
good of the people of the ah.o..as a whole, or as a group
and certainly by the sidestepping of zoning by the public
utilities, then they are an exempt body and can do as they
please. I don't think this is proper.''
Rep. Arthur Telcser: ''Is there furth--v.-Gentleman.a..afrom
Lasalle, Representative Fennessey.ll
Joseph Fennessey: ''Bob, if the county doesn't have zoning, and
the township does, this bill' would pass then it means the e#
wouldn't be any zoning and they could go ahead and......''
Robert F. Mcnartlin: ''I guess you would be right on that.''
.. ' . . '. ..Q q :'. 'i ' '' 12 . k;L
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143.
Joseph Fennessey: ''I think aho..Mr.speaker, may I speak to the e
bills?''
Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed Sir.''
Joseph Fennessey: ''I think these bills are aimed at just one
specific area of the state at the present time . But these
are very important bills to the whole state of Illinois,
and i ah.o-feel that these bills should be defeated, becau e'for one instance if this bill 4645 passes, it would really
destroy township zoning or zoning in general. As far as
agricultural purposes are concerned. 4646 if this passes#
will 'allow.e.already destroy property rights ah. aoof indiv duals
to allow public utilities to come on your property simply'
by getting a permit from the departmènt of Ccmmerce Commis ion,and I don't think khis is right, I think that, and I would
ask that the members of this House defeat b0th of these bi ls. ''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Is there further discussion? Gentlem n
from Kane, Representative Waddello''
R. Bruce Waddell: ''kr. Speaker, I'd like to speak to the bill,if I might?''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Proceed Sir.ll
R. Bruce Waddell: ''Under the provision of these two, I think t at
ou have ah. . .something' that is wadà.m mt to condemnationY
due to the fact that you have no restriction at al1 upon t e
powers of the public utilities. In as much as that is tru ,
you are saying then that in effect nobody vhas any rights o
their own prcperty, if'at such time the ukility wants to w lk
in there, put a àub-station there. put a lake there, which
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144.
they do under the atomic type of generation, and then you
suddenly find that farm after farm, home after home. has
been violated, and now we have seen last session, at the e d
of the session, where a bill was snuk th/ough and that onl
provided that the Illinois Commerce Commission would have
this Authority. It was vetoed by the Governor. This is
even worso. This is the worse pair of bills that welve se n
all session. I urge a no vote-''
' Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Gentleman from cook, Representative
J. J. Wo1f.''
J. J. Wolf: ''Mr. Speaker, I move the #revious questiono''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''The gentleman has moved the previous
question. Al1 those in favor signify by saying 'ayefu the
opposed 'no'. The gentleman's motion prevails. Gentlbman
from cooky Representàtivq Mcbartlin t; close the Debate. u'
Robert S. Mcpartlin: ''Mr. Speaker, members of the House, if th s
bill is made law. it would actually put a generating stati n
down in Laïalle County. Now this generating station would
actually feed service to millions of people to the'North,from Lasalle County. And you well know, actually in the
Chicago Area, we are losing ah.m .khe ah..egenerating f6r
the air conditioners. A1l the neF buildings are going up.
So this is why this bill is needed. would urge your sup ort.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Question is shall House Bills 4645 an
4 ' 11 thosein favor signify/by voting 'aye ' the46 6 pass? A ,
6pposed by voting 'no'. The clerk will take two roll call .
Gentleman from Livingston, Representative Hunsicker, to
.. $* ....... . explain his vote . ''(t*-!j ''i -/ ' +. 1-J> ïj G E N E R A L A S S E M 8 L Y! ; X k
.5 q'1-ks. : ) . r- :,..) . : s'e , v .: o r- , u u ' eq o ' s a. 'e . H o kl S E o F F' r: P R E s e: hl T A T I u c S.
. ,1 tr a.. . s e s+ . .
145.Carl T. Hunsicker: ''Mr. Speaker, and ladies and gentlemen of
the House. This bill would give Common Wealth Edison the
authority to build a qenerating plank up in the Lasalle co ntykaking out eleven sections of prime farm land
. I'm positi ethat's all this bill was for. I brought this up in commit ee.
I was told no, that wasn't the reason, and now I'm more
convinced than ever. since this amendment took out this la 2maragraph of section 4646. And I would 'urge a no vote
.''
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Have all voted who wish? Taxe the=record. Record Maragcs, Present. On thése questions ther
are 19 'ayesf 87 'nays'. Rayson, 'no'. McLendon, 'aye'.<
'
. .
And these bills having failed to receive a constitutional
majority are hereby declared lost.''Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Alright, ah...hTe're goin: to try to wi d
it down now. There are a few people who have asked forrecognition on bills that are on the table
, that didnlt, t at
were not recognized earlier. The gentleman from Will,
'
Mr.O'Brien.''
G. M. O'Brien: ''Mr. Speaker, and members of the House, I move
that ah-o.The Speaker of the House take from the table andplace in order of second reading
, Senate Bill 989, which i
.the Appellate Defender Projecto''
Hon. W. Robert Blair: ''Discussion? Alright, the question is o
the gentleman's. motion to take from the table. And al1 th se
in favor will vote 'aye' and the opposed ''no'. Have a11#
'
.
yoted who wished? Take the record. On this question therare ......A1right the gentleman from cook
e Mr. Shea........ . 1 w. '-
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146.
On this question there are 120 'ayes' no 'nays'. . And the
gentleman's motion to take from the table prevaiss. Now,
on the order of senate Bills second reading ah...is Senate
Bill 8907 Which had earlier been brought from executive
committee. That order of business is not on the calendar.
but it is infact.........
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Due to faulty equipment, the final thirty minutes of the
One.Hundred Fifty-eighth iegislative Day of the Seventy-
Seventh General Assembly. June 26, 1972, was not obtained.
Information regarding the final minutes may be secured
from the Journal of that day.
' t at 7:11 O'C1ock 'P.M.Adnournmen
E .6/26/72mw .
' ,A #/W5 '''
.' ? S ï--nsèh. G E N E 11 A L A S S E 51 B L Yî z ).:':'-. . . à tt i mp Ik'. T'*': J ) s.r gq v t.: o s ' u u I N o 1 sy,. QJ .n-'' '.*. . ,4 ou s ti o Ir r'c e a e:s c sl x. A x I u ss#'<. ; .-.,%
R&G mfS BY: John J. HillREGARDING: Tabeling of House Bill 4620
Rep. Arthur A. Telcser: ''Representative Hill, for what pur-
pose do you rise, sir?''
John Hi1l: ''I'd like to explain my ,voteu Mr. Speaker. I'l
make it as short as possible. I voted for Ahis piece of
lesislation because I thought it was going to be very 'good
for the Taxpayers o' f my District. It's somçthing that they
need and they need vitally. The taxes... the property
taxes in my District continue to go up.. and up.. and up . .
and the people are getting fed up on it. And the reayon I
. voted 'no' not to table this piece of legislation because
tk it is such a good piece of legislation. then it should b.
enacted and let the Governor decide whether he wants to
veto it or not. It seems Yo me that if the Bill goes
through with 89 votesk it is .still going to cover much of,'
the District that I representk And even though a1l of the
people çould not benefit from it,.at least scme of them/' .
could and .r'd like to point out to you that this is one of
. the first time that the Chicago Delocrats could of helped
the Downstate Democrats ih the State of Illinois. But it
seems as though they put their tail between their legs and
they run. It seems to me....It seems to that over a period
of years that tha Chicago Democrats beccme so greedy that
they Vave no reasonp... that they have no reasoning. This
is a Bill Vhat would have benefited tlïe people who vote
fôr us at the poles come November. And it seems to me that
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2.
this is one time that they should have taken this under
consideration, not only for the people of my District but
the people of a11 the State of Illinois. And I can assure
you of one thing-o... And I can assure you of one thing,
on this particular vote and the vote taken last week,
going to have a memory like an 'Elephant' and 1'11 never
forget it.... And 1.11 never forget it. And can assure
the Leader of the Chicago Democrats that he's going to
rue the day when he kept off every one of those Chicago
Democrats from this Bilï and did not allow it to pass for
the property Taxpayers of the State of Illinois. Thank you
very much.''
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