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BONDS Updated August 12, 2013, 10:16 p.m. ET

How to Be a Better ConversationalistGood Small Talk Makes Us Likable, But It's Easy to Get Rusty—How to AvoidDominating and Being Dominated in a Conversation

-

By ELIZABETH BERNSTEIN

Article

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Jason Swett still cringes when he remembers the party in Atlanta 10 years ago,

where, drink in hand, he tried "to impress the local Southern belles," he says, by

talking—nonstop.

He told the six or so people he'd just met the tale of how once at a grocery store he

helped apprehend a thief who'd stuffed steaks down his pants. And the story about the

time he spotted a bike at the bottom of a pond in a local park and jumped in to retrieve

it. And then the one about how he smoked himself out of his own basement by setting

off illegal fireworks.

Eventually, Mr. Swett asked the group, "Wanna hear another one?" The reply was

unanimous. "No!" six people shouted in unison.

There is an art to elegantly starting,

sustaining and ending a dialogue with

strangers or friends. Experts call it

conversational intelligence. Others call it

the gift of gab. Hard as it may be for

chatty people to believe, not everyone is

born with it. For many, it takes study and

For those born without the gift of gab, the art of elegantly starting, sustaining and stopping adiscussion takes study and practice. Elizabeth Bernstein joins Lunch Break to explain why experts saysmall talk is actually a big deal. Photo: Getty Images.

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9/8/13 How to Be a Better Conversationalist - WSJ.com

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What's This?

About Elizabeth Bernstein

In nearly a decade at The Wall Street Journal, Bonds columnist

Elizabeth Bernstein has covered education, philanthropy,

psychology and religion - all areas in which personal

relationships loom large. In her work, she has ranged far and

wide, from exposing the backlash against excessive emailing of

baby photos to a detailed narrative reconstruction of a matricide.

She has received awards from organizations including the New

York Chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists' Deadline

Club, the Education Writers Association and the American

Psychoanalytic Association. Now, Elizabeth is using her acquired

insights and expertise to explore the manifold aspects of human

interactions, whether at home, at work or among friends.

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Be a Better Small Talker

practice.

Some people dismiss small talk as mere

chitchat, an unnecessary and annoying

waste of time. Many men consider it a

female thing. But experts say casual

conversation is essential social grease

—a ritual that helps us connect with

friends, colleagues and people we've

just met.

We can use small talk to signal our

friendly intent and to get people to like

us. It can lead to more-significant

conversations that spark friendships and

clinch deals. Still, for many it remains a

mysterious and challenging art.

Small talk occurs in all cultures but the

substance differs. Americans generally

have an international reputation for being

good at small talk although the content is

often seen by other cultures as

superficial, says Roger Baumgarte, professor emeritus of psychology at Winthrop

University, in Rock Hill, S.C.

Unfortunately, we seem to be getting less good at it. (Been on the Web lately?) So

much of our lives have moved online, we've become less adept at in-person

interactions. Experts worry that, thanks to videogames and texting, younger

generations aren't learning the basics of real conversation.

You can develop your conversational

intelligence. It isn't complicated,

especially if you keep this rule of thumb

in mind: Focus on the other person. "Let

it be known that you want to make

conversation," says Bernardo J.

Carducci, professor of psychology and

director of the Shyness Research

Institute at Indiana University Southeast,

in New Albany, Ind. "Make it easy for the

other person."

A successful conversation can be divided into five stages, Dr. Carducci says. In the

"Getting Started" stage, you signal your desire to talk with a simple opening line based

on something both of you are observing or experiencing in your shared surroundings.

("Hot enough for you?")

In the second stage, the "Personal Introduction," you should mention something about

yourself, state your name if appropriate and provide hints for topics to talk about. ("It

seems like the whole city is on vacation this week.")

"A good personal introduction helps to move the conversation forward," Dr. Carducci

says. He encourages people who aren't adept conversationalists to keep a few "go to"

topics in their back pocket.

In the third stage, "Pre-Topical Exploration," you and your conversation partner are

looking for common ground. This is a good time to ask questions, and to refer back to

and build upon things said earlier. ("Did you get a chance to get away this summer?")

When the other person introduces a topic, you should respond—or quickly offer an

alternative.

Nicole Kalvaitis

People respond to conversations aboutthemselves, says Jason Swett, of GrandRapids, Mich.

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Elizabeth Bernstein and WSJ This Morning's

Gordon Deal on mastering the art of small

talk

00:00 |09:02

Audio

JOIN THE DISCUSSION MORE IN

Fear of awkward silences is common in

people who aren't natural

conversationalists. Expert say don't

worry when it gets quiet. The other

person is probably just thinking of

something to say. I could chat with a

tree, and even I was stumped recently

after I took my seat on a plane and the

man next to me responded to my opening line—"I hate to leave Honolulu"—with "I've

been married 24 years."

In the "Post-Topical Elaboration" stage, your job is to keep the conversation going.

"Good conversation is topic-building," says Dr. Carducci, so you should make links

between subjects. ("I took a 'staycation' and saw some excellent movies.")

As in every stage, you should be careful not to talk too much. This means you should

avoid your favorite topic, whether it is yoga or your kid's soccer tournament.

But don't let the other person hog all the airtime, either. If this starts to happen,

mention something about yourself when he or she takes a breath. "Bad small-talkers

are too self-critical, so they shut themselves down," says Dr. Carducci, who wrote

"The Pocket Guide to Making Successful Small Talk."

The final stage is the "Wrap Up." Here, you signal that the end is near and show

appreciation ("Nice chatting with you.") Demonstrate that you were listening by

summarizing highlights of the conversation ("Thanks for those movie

recommendations.") Look for a way to stay in touch, if you would like—offer a

business card or ask if the person is on Facebook.

Ask a lot of questions. People love to talk about themselves and often will think you

are a great conversationalist if you talk about them and not yourself. Don't let the

conversation stall after the person has answered—be ready with follow-up questions

or build on the topic. And avoid obvious inquiries. Cathy Svacina, a 60-year-old

marbles expert and tournament referee from Kansas City, Mo., likes to ask people

what they do for fun. "That immediately tells me more about who they are than what

they do for work," she says.

Listening is crucial. Dan Nainan, 32, a comedian from Manhattan, has learned to

summarize what the other person says. ("So you think that…" or "So what you're

saying is…") "A conversation can go on indefinitely if you do this," he says.

Have a line ready for when you want the conversation to end. Ella Rucker, a 40-year-

old freelance writer from Bronx, N.Y., smiles and says, "As much as I've enjoyed our

conversation, I'll let you continue with your evening."

Mr. Swett's small-talk epiphany came several years ago, after he read Dale

Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People." In 2010, he joined

Toastmasters International, a group that helps people with public speaking. "I learned

that people are mostly interested in themselves," says the 29-year-old Grand Rapids,

Mich., software engineer. "If you talk to the other person about them, they'll be much

more responsive and interested than if you talk about you."

Recently, Mr. Swett had a job interview at a telecommunications firm, where, rather

than just talking about himself, he began by asking questions and then responded to

questions others raised. One of the executives nodded approvingly and asked, "Did

someone coach you on this interview?"

Write to Elizabeth Bernstein at Bonds@wsj.com or follow her column at

Facebook.com/EBernsteinWSJ.

A version of this article appeared August 12, 2013, on page D1 in the U.S. edition of The Wall Street

Journal, with the headline: The Hidden Benefits of Chitchat.

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