ili karlin svedok ili smrt

112
Dr Vojislav [e{eq ILI KARLIN SVEDOK ILI SMRT (Kako je ha{ko tu`ila{tvo pretwama iznu|ivalo la`na svedo~ewa u procesu protiv dr Vojislava [e{eqa) Srpska radikalna stranka Beograd 2007.

Upload: andrejpetrov

Post on 24-Apr-2015

542 views

Category:

Documents


2 download

TRANSCRIPT

Page 1: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Dr Vojislav [e{eq

ILI KARLIN SVEDOK ILI SMRT

(Kako je ha{ko tu`ila{tvo pretwamaiznu|ivalo la`na svedo~ewa

u procesu protiv dr Vojislava [e{eqa)

Srpska radikalna strankaBeograd 2007.

Page 2: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Dr Vojislav [e{eq

ILI KARLIN SVEDOK ILI SMRT(Kako je ha{ko tu`ila{tvo pretwama iznu|ivalo la`na

svedo~ewa u procesu protiv dr Vojislava [e{eqa)

Glavni redaktorZoran�Krasi}

Priredio uz pomo}Vjerice�Radete,�Gordane�Pop-Lazi},�Slavka�Jerkovi}aPetra�Joji}a,�Jadranka�Vukovi}a,�Marine�Ragu{,�Ogwena�Mihajlovi}a,�Mirjane�Popovi}-Tomovi},�

Dragane�Milivojevi},�Biqane�[ajin,�Vesne�ZobeniceDirektor izdava~kog sektora

Ogwen�Mihajlovi}Tehni~ko ure|eweBrankica�Terzi}

LektorAleksandar�^arapi}

Izdava~Srpska�radikalna�stranka,Trg�pobede�3,�Zemun

Za izdava~aDr�Vojislav�[e{eq

[tampa[tamparija�DOO�“DRAGI]”�Zrewanin

Za {tamparijuMom~ilo�Dragi}

Tira`3000�primeraka

CIP -�Katalogizacija�u�publikacijiNarodna�biblioteka�Srbije,�Beograd

32:929�[e{eq�V.341.645.5

[E[EQ, VojislavIli�Karlin�svedok�ili�smrt�:�(Kako�je�

ha{ko�tu`ila{tvo�pretwama�iznu|ivalo�la`nasvedo~ewa�u�procesu�protiv�dr�Vojislava[e{eqa)�/�Vojislav�[e{eq.�-�Beograd�:Srpska�radikalna�stranka,�2007�(Zrewanin:�”Dragi}”).�-�112�str.�;�24�cm

Tira`�3.000.�-�Str.�3-8:�Predgovor�/�ZoranKrasi}.

ISBN 978-86-7886-017-1

a)�Me|unarodni�krivi~ni�tribunal�za�biv{u�Jugoslaviju�(Hag)�-�Optu`nice�b)�[e{eq,�Vojislav�(1954-)�-�Su|eweCOBISS. SR-ID 138972428

Page 3: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

3

Predgovor

Ne�dav�no,�11.�mar�ta�2007.�go�di�ne,�na�re�dov�noj�kon�fe�ren�ci�ji�za�no�vi�na�reko�ju�sva�ke�ne�de�qe�or�ga�ni�zu�je�Stru~�ni�tim�ko�ji�po�ma�̀ e�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu[e�{e�qu�u�pri�pre�mi�od�bra�ne,�jav�nost�je�oba�ve�{te�na�da�je�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav[e�{eq�8.�mar�ta�2007.�go�di�ne�pod�neo�Pre�tre�snom�ve�}u�III zah�tev�za�po�kre�-ta�we�po�stup�ka�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�pro�tiv�Kar�le�del�Pon�-te,�Hil�de�gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�ni�je�la�Sakso�na.�Ma�ko�li�ko�da�su�se�me�di�jiu�Sr�bi�ji�tru�di�li�da�ovu�vest�ne�ka�ko�blo�ki�ra�ju,�{to�i�ni�je�iz�ne�na�|e�we�za�sr�-bi�jan�ske�pri�li�ke�– po�{to�se�kao�sa�svim�ra�zu�mqi�v�raz�log�na�me�}e�ap�so�lut�nain�stru�men�ta�li�za�ci�ja�me�di�ja�ko�ji�ima�ju�je�di�ni�za�da�tak�da�po�dr�̀ a�va�ju�po�li�-ti�ku�ko�ha�bi�ta�ci�o�nih�part�ne�ra�Ta�di}-Ko�{tu�ni�ca,�i�sve�ga�{to�zna�~i�ovajdu�et�–�ova vest�je�istog�da�na�sti�dqi�vo�pre�ne�ta�u�ne�ko�li�ko�elek�tron�skih�me�-di�ja.�[tam�pa�je�su�tra�dan�ob�ja�vi�la�istu�vest,�ali�skrom�no,�ne�pot�pu�no,�sti�-dqi�vo�i�sa�pri�met�nim�uz�dr�̀ a�va�wem�od�bi�lo�ka�kvog�ko�men�ta�ra.�

Na�rav�no,�vest�ni�su�mo�gle�da�mar�gi�na�li�zu�ju�te�ku�}e�ve�sti�ve�za�ne�za�da�tu�-me�11.�mart�(go�di�{wi�ca�ubi�stva�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a)�i�12.�mart�(go�di�-{wi�ca�ubi�stva�Zo�ra�na�\in�|i�}a),�jer�sva�ko�na�vo�|e�we�ime�na�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa�je�zna�~aj�na�i�ozbiq�na�vest.

Da�ta�no�vin�ska�vest�ne�bi�za�vr�{i�la�na�mar�gi�na�ma�i�da�ni�ka�da�ni�ko�nebi�sa�znao�o�~e�mu�se�ra�di,�po�tru�dio�se�li~�no�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq.�Usvom�do�bro�po�zna�tom�i�pre�po�zna�tqi�vom�sti�lu,�ob�ja�vio�je�jo{�jed�nu�svo�ju�“ha�-{ku”�kwi�gu.�Kao�i�sve�pret�hod�ne,�i�ova�kwiga�je�jo{�jed�na�u�ni�zu�do�ku�men�to�-va�nih�sve�do�~an�sta�va�o�Ha�{kom�tri�bu�na�lu.�Po�put�pret�hod�nih�dela�iz�svo�je�-vr�snog�ha�{kog�opu�sa,�i�ova�kwiga�no�si�isti�nu�i�prav�du,�te�se�mo�̀ e�na�zva�tii�svo�je�vr�snim�ha�{kim�fun�du�som�va�̀ nih�do�ku�me�na�ta.

Ova�kwi�ga�je�zna�~aj�na�ako�se�ima�u�vi�du�na�sto�ja�we�kre�a�to�ra�me�|u�na�rod�-nog�pra�va�da�sve�ono�{to�se�ura�di�u�Ha�{kom�tri�bu�na�lu�tre�ba�da�pred�sta�vqano�vi�ko�di�fi�ko�va�ni�me�|u�na�rod�ni�stan�dard�za�sve�bu�du�}e�me�|u�na�rod�ne�su�do�-ve,�a�na�ro�~i�to�za�onaj�stal�ni�sud�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne�(tako|e�sa�se�di�{tem�u�Ha�-gu),�ko�ji�je�osno�van�Rim�skim�sta�tu�tom�ju�la�1998.�go�di�ne,�a�jo{�uvek�se�mu�~isa�svo�jim�zva�ni~�nim�po�~et�kom�ra�da.

Isto�ri�ja�je�pre�bo�ga�ta�pri�me�rima�da�gde�su�oru�̀ a�ni�su�ko�bi,�tu�se�po�pra�-vi�lu�vr�{e�i�rat�ni�zlo�~i�ni.�Ve�ro�vat�no�je�ta�ko�i�sa�du�go�go�di�{wim�oru�̀ a�nimsu�ko�bi�ma,�na�pri�mer,�u�Ira�ku.�Ako�se�pred�su�do�vi�ma�spro�vo�di�prav�da�i�is�ku�-stvo�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�na�me�}e�kao�me�|u�na�rod�ni�stan�dard,�on�da�je�stvar�no�in�-te�re�sant�no�pitawe�ka�ko�bi�stan�dar�di�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�bi�li�pri�me�we�ni�napi�ta�we�od�go�vor�no�sti�onih�ko�ji�vr�{e�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne,�re�ci�mo,�u�Ira�ku?�

Na�te�mu�ne�po�{to�va�wa�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�go�to�vo�da�i�ne�ma�ra�do�va.�Ma�-lo�ima�stru~�nih�ra�do�va.�Ve�ro�vat�no�sa�mo�u�de�lo�vi�ma�ne�ke�zna�~aj�ni�je�te�me,�a{to�se�ti�~e�ob�ra�|e�nih�pri�me�ra�iz�prak�se�pred�me�|u�na�rod�nim�su�dom,�go�to�-vo�i�da�ne�ma.�Do�du�{e,�mo�ra�da�se�pri�me�ti�da�ne�ka�sud�ska�prak�sa�ipak�po�sto�-ji�ka�da�je�u�pi�ta�wu�Me�|u�na�rod�ni�kri�vi~�ni�sud�za�biv�{u�Ju�go�sla�vi�ju�(u�da�-qem�tek�stu:�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nal).�Me�|u�tim,�mo�ra�da�se�kon�sta�tu�je�da�je�po�sto�-

Page 4: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

je�}a�sud�ska�prak�sa�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�ipak�jed�no�stra�na.�Ta�jed�no�stra�nost�seogle�da�u�to�me�{to�su�do�sa�da�po�kre�ta�ni�po�stup�ci�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�-rod�nog�su�da�uvek�bi�li�pro�tiv�ne�kog�sve�do�ka,�po�ten�ci�jal�nog�sve�do�ka,�no�vi�-na�ra,�bra�ni�o�ca,�a�jed�nom�i�pro�tiv�op�tu�̀ e�nog�u�pri�tvo�ru.�Ove�po�~et�ne�in�-for�ma�ci�je�su�dra�go�ce�ne,�jer�po�ma�̀ u�da�se�bo�qe�raz�u�me�ka�ko�funk�ci�o�ni�{eHa�{ki�tri�bu�nal,�ka�da�je�u�pi�ta�wu�kri�vi~�na�od�go�vor�nost�za�ne�po�{to�va�weme�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.�S�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�se�u�ovoj�kwi�zi�na�la�zi�do�ku�men�tar�-ni�pri�kaz�zah�te�va�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�ko�jim�je�on,�kao�op�tu�̀ e�ni�upri�tvo�ru�ko�ji�se�sam�bra�ni,�po�kre�nuo�po�stu�pak�i�da�je�ko�ri�stio�sa�mo�one�od�-red�be�ko�je�su�re�le�vant�ne�za�we�gov�zah�tev,�ko�ri�sno�je�da�~i�ta�lac�ove�kwi�geima�pot�pun�uvid�u�pra�vi�lo�ko�je�se�pri�me�wu�je�i�do�sa�da�{wu�prak�su�pri�me�netog�pra�vi�la.

Za�kri�vi~�nu�od�go�vor�nost�zbog�ne�po�{to�va�wa�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�re�le�-vant�no�je�pra�vi�lo�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka�o�po�stup�ku�i�do�ka�zi�ma�(u�da�qem�tek�stu:Pra�vil�nik),�ko�je�gla�si:

“(A)�Vr�{e�}i�svo�ja�in�he�rent�na�ovla�{}e�wa,�Me�|u�na�rod�ni�sud�mo�̀ e�pro�-gla�si�ti�kri�vim�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da�one�ko�ji�sve�sno�i�na�mer�no�ome�ta�juspro�vo�|e�we�prav�de,�ukqu�~u�ju�}i�sva�ku�oso�bu:

(i)�ko�ja�sve�do�~i�pred�Ve�}em,�a�upor�no�od�bi�ja�da�od�go�vo�ri�ili�ne�od�go�va�-ra�na�pi�ta�we,

(ii)�ko�ja�obe�lo�da�ni�in�for�ma�ci�je�ko�je�se�od�no�se�na�taj�po�stu�pak,�sve�snoti�me�kr�{e�}i�na�log�Ve�}a,

(iii)�ko�ja�se�bez�oprav�da�nog�raz�lo�ga�oglu�{i�na�na�log�da�stu�pi�pred�Ve�}eili�Ve�}u�do�sta�vi�do�ku�men�te,

(iv)�ko�ja�pre�ti�sve�do�ku,�za�stra�{u�je�ga,�na�bi�lo�ko�ji�na�~in�mu�na�ne�se�{te�-tu�ili�mu�po�nu�di�mi�to�ili�na�dru�gi�na�~in�uti�~e�na�sve�do�ka�ko�ji�sve�do�~i�ilije�sve�do�~io�ili�}e�sve�do�~i�ti�u�po�stup�ku�pred�Ve�}em�ili�na�po�ten�ci�jal�nogsve�do�ka;�ili

(v)�ko�ja�pre�ti�bi�lo�ko�joj�oso�bi,�za�stra�{u�je�je,�po�nu�di�joj�mi�to�ili�nadru�gi�na�~in�na�sto�ji�pri�me�ni�ti�pri�nu�du�na�wu,�s�na�me�rom�da�tu�oso�bu�spre�-~i�u�is�pu�wa�va�wu�we�ne�oba�ve�ze�pro�is�te�kle�iz�na�lo�ga�su�di�je�ili�Ve�}a.

(B)�Pod�sti�ca�we�na�iz�vr�{e�we�i�po�ku�{aj�iz�vr�{e�wa�bi�lo�ko�jeg�od�de�laka�̀ wi�vih�po�sta�vu�(A)�ovog�pra�vi�la�ka�̀ wi�vi�su�kao�ne�po�{to�va�we�Me�|u�-na�rod�nog�su�da�i�po�vla�~e�iste�ka�zne.

(C)�Kad�Ve�}e�ima�raz�lo�ga�za�sum�wu�da�bi�ne�ka�oso�ba�mo�gla�bi�ti�kri�vaza�ne�po�{to�va�we�Su�da,�ono�mo�̀ e:

(i)�upu�ti�ti�tu�̀ i�o�ca�da�is�tra�̀ i�stvar�u�svr�hu�pri�pre�me�i�po�di�za�wa�op�-tu�̀ ni�ce�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da;

(ii)�ka�da�kod�tu�̀ i�o�ca,�po�mi�{qe�wu�Ve�}a,�po�sto�ji�su�kob�in�te�re�sa�u�ve�zisa�pred�met�nim�po�stup�ci�ma,�upu�ti�ti�se�kre�ta�ra�da�ime�nu�je�ami cus cu ri ae dais�tra�̀ i�stvar�i�iz�ve�sti�Ve�}e�da�li�po�sto�ji�do�vo�qan�osnov�za�po�kre�ta�we�po�-stup�ka�zbog�ne�po�{to�va�wa�su�da;�ili

(iii)�samo�za�po�~e�ti�po�stu�pak.(D)�Ako�Ve�}e�sma�tra�da�po�sto�ji�do�vo�qan�osnov�za�po�stu�pak�zbog�ne�po�-

{to�va�wa�su�da�pro�tiv�ne�ke�oso�be,�Ve�}e�mo�̀ e:(i)�u�okol�no�sti�ma�opi�sa�nim�u�sta�vu�(C)(i),�upu�ti�ti�tu�̀ i�o�ca�da�pre�du�zme

4

Page 5: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

kri�vi~�no�go�we�we�u�toj�stva�ri;�ili(ii)�u�okol�no�sti�ma�opi�sa�nim�u�sta�vu�(C)(ii)�ili�(iii),�iz�da�ti�na�log�in lo -

co op�tu�̀ ni�ce�i�za�tim�bi�lo�upu�ti�ti�ami cus cu ri ae da�pre�du�zme�kri�vi~�no�go�-we�we�bi�lo�samo�pe�du�ze�ti�kri�vi~�no�go�we�we�u�toj�stva�ri.

(E)�Pra�vi�la�o�po�stup�ku�i�do�ka�zi�ma�od�~e�tvr�tog�do�osmog�de�la�pri�me�wu�-ju�se�mu ta tis mu tan dis na�po�stu�pak�po�ovom�pra�vi�lu.

(F)�Ako�oso�ba�op�tu�̀ e�na�ili�okri�vqe�na�za�da�va�we�la�̀ nog�is�ka�za�is�pu�-wa�va�kri�te�ri�je�sla�bog�imo�vin�skog�sta�wa�ko�je�utvr�|u�je�se�kre�tar,�bi�}e�joj�do�-de�qen�bra�ni�lac�u�skla�du�s�pra�vi�lom�45.

(G)�Mak�si�mal�na�ka�zna�ko�ja�se�mo�̀ e�iz�re�}i�oso�bi�pro�gla�{e�noj�kri�vomza�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da�je�ste�ka�zna�za�tvo�ra�od�naj�vi�{e�se�dam�go�di�na�ili�nov�-~a�na�ka�zna�od�naj�vi�{e�EUR�100.000,�ili�obo�je.

(H)�Nov�~a�na�ka�zna�se�upla�}u�je�se�kre�ta�ru�na�po�se�ban�ra�~un.(I)�Ako� bra�ni�lac� bu�de� pro�gla�{en� kri�vim� za� ne�po�{to�va�we� su�da� po

ovom�pra�vi�lu,�Ve�}e�ko�je�je�ta�ko�pre�su�di�lo�mo�̀ e�ta�ko�|e�od�lu�~i�ti�da�taj�bra�-ni�lac�vi�{e�ne�is�pu�wa�va�uslo�ve�da�za�stu�pa�osum�wi�~e�ne�ili�op�tu�̀ e�ne�predMe�|u�na�rod�nim�su�dom�ili�da�ta�kvo�po�na�{a�we�pred�sta�vqa�ne�do�zvo�qe�no�po�-na�{a�we�bra�ni�o�ca�iz�pra�vi�la�46,�ili�obo�je.

(J)�Na�sva�ku�od�lu�ku�ko�ju�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e�do�ne�se�po�ovom�pra�vi�lu�mo�̀ ese�ulo�̀ i�ti�̀ al�ba.�Na�ja�va�̀ al�be�pod�no�si�se�u�ro�ku�od�pet�na�est�da�na�od�da�nakad�je�za�ve�de�na�po�bi�ja�na�od�lu�ka.�U�slu�~a�ju�da�je�od�lu�ka�iz�re�~e�na�usme�no,�na�-ja�va�se�pod�no�si�u�ro�ku�od�pet�na�est�da�na�od�da�na�iz�ri�ca�wa�usme�ne�od�lu�ke,osim:

(i)�ako�stra�na�ko�ja�ospo�ra�va�od�lu�ku�ni�je�bi�la�pri�sut�na�ili�za�stu�pa�na�ka�-da�je�od�lu�ka�iz�re�~e�na,�u�ko�jem�slu�~a�ju�rok�po�~i�we�te�}i�od�da�na�kad�stra�nako�ja�ospo�ra�va�od�lu�ku�oba�ve�{te�na�o�usme�noj�od�lu�ci;�ili

(ii)�ako�je�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e�na�zna�~i�lo�da�}e�usle�di�ti�pi�sme�na�od�lu�ka,�uko�jem�slu�~a�ju�rok�po�~i�we�te�}i�od�da�na�ka�da�je�za�ve�de�na�pi�sme�na�od�lu�ka.

(K)�Ako�od�lu�ku�po�ovom�pra�vi�lu�do�ne�se�@al�be�no�ve�}e�u�funk�ci�ji�pr�-vo�ste�pe�ne�in�stan�ce,�na�tu�se�od�lu�ku�mo�̀ e�ulo�̀ i�ti�pi�sme�na�`al�ba�pred�sed�-ni�ku�u�ro�ku�od�pet�na�est�da�na�od�da�na�kad�je�za�ve�de�na�po�bi�ja�na�od�lu�ka.�O�̀ al�-bi�}e�re�{a�va�ti�pet�su�di�ja�ko�je�ime�nu�je�pred�sed�nik.�U�slu�~a�ju�da�je�po�bi�ja�naod�lu�ka�iz�re�~e�na�usme�no,�`al�ba�se�pod�no�si�u�ro�ku�od�pet�na�est�da�na�od�da�naiz�ri�ca�wa�usme�ne�od�lu�ke,�osim:

(i)�ako�stra�na�ko�ja�ospo�ra�va�od�lu�ku�ni�je�bi�la�pri�sut�na�ili�za�stu�pa�nakad�je�od�lu�ka�iz�re�~e�na,�u�ko�jem�slu�~a�ju�rok�po�~i�we�te�}i�od�da�na�kad�stra�nako�ja�je�ospo�ra�va�bu�de�oba�ve�{te�na�o�usme�noj�od�lu�ci;�ili

(ii)�ako�je�@al�be�no�ve�}e�na�zna�~i�lo�da�}e�usle�di�ti�pi�sme�na�od�lu�ka,�u�ko�-jem�slu�~a�ju�rok�po�~i�we�te�}i�od�da�na�ka�da�je�za�ve�de�na�pi�sme�na�od�lu�ka”.

Da�kle,�u�pi�ta�wu�je�jed�no�“om�ni�bus”�pra�vi�lo�ko�je�sa�dr�̀ i�od�red�be�ma�te�-ri�jal�nog�i�pro�ce�snog�ka�rak�te�ra.�Po�en�ta�je�u�to�me�{to�je�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nalovla�{}en�da�vo�di�po�stu�pak�i�ka�̀ wa�va�iz�vr�{i�o�ce�ka�̀ wi�vih�de�la,�od�no�snosve�one�ko�ji�iz�vr�{e,�po�ku�{a�ju�i�pod�sti�~u�na�rad�we�sve�snog�i�na�mer�nog�ome�-ta�wa�spro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de�pred�Ha�{kim�tri�bu�na�lom.�U�pi�ta�wu�su�in�he�rent�-na�ovla�{}e�wa�(sa�mo�stal�no�po�kre�}e,�vo�di,�ka�̀ wa�va)�{to�bi�sa�gle�di�{ta�za�-mi�sli�tvor�ca�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�i�prak�se�ko�ja�se�pro�fi�li�sa�la�u�Ha�{kom

5

Page 6: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

tri�bu�na�lu�mo�ra�lo�da�se�tu�ma�~i�kao�iz�vor�no�ovla�{}e�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�dako�jim�obez�be�|u�je�eks�pe�di�tiv�no,�fer�i�pra�vi~�no�su�|e�we,�te�da�u�tom�kon�tek�-stu�po�sto�ji�i�iz�vor�no�ovla�{}e�we�su�da�da�ka�̀ wa�va�sve�ko�ji�ome�ta�ju�spro�vo�-|e�we�prav�de.�Da�rad�we�ome�ta�wa�ne�bi�bi�le�ne�de�fi�ni�sa�ne,�od�no�sno�da�bi�seuna�pred�zna�lo�{ta�je�za�bra�we�no�i�pred�sta�vqa�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da�ko�je�ome�-ta�spro�vo�|e�we�prav�de,�te�sa�mim�tim�i�pred�sta�vqa�lo�ka�̀ wi�vo�po�na�{a�we,su�di�je�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�su�stvo�ri�le�pra�vi�lo�77�ko�je�se�pri�me�wu�je�na�“svali�ca”.

U�do�sa�da�{woj�prak�si,�u�po�gle�du�po�kre�ta�wa�po�stup�ka�za�ne�po�{to�va�weme�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�i�ozbiq�nih�na�ja�va�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�da�}e�po�kre�nu�ti�po�stu�-pak,�kao�“sva�li�ca”�su�se�po�ja�vqi�va�li:

– bra�ni�lac,�advo�kat�Mi�lan�Vu�jin�(pred�met�Ta�di});– sve�dok�Ko�sta�Bu�la�to�vi}�i�Dra�gan�Va�siq�ko�vi}� (pred�met�Mi�lo�{e�-

vi});– no�vi�na�ri�Du�{ko�Jo�va�no�vi}�(pred�met�Mi�lo�{e�vi}),�Do�ma�goj�Mar�ge�-

ti}�(pred�met�Bla�{ki}),�Jo�sip�Jo�vi}�(pred�met�Bla�{ki});– kao�tre�}e�li�ce�Be�qa�Be�qaj�(pred�met�Li�maj,�Ba�qa�i�Mu�sli�ju);– op�tu�̀ e�ni�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq.Kao�rad�we�ne�po�{to�va�wa�su�bi�le�po�ku�{aj�pre�va�re�su�da,�obe�lo�da�wi�va�we

ime�na�za�{ti�}e�nih�sve�do�ka,�od�bi�ja�we�od�go�vo�ra�na�pi�ta�wa,�me�wa�we�iz�ja�va�ipret�we�sve�do�ci�ma.�In�te�re�sant�no�je�da�su�fra�zom�“sva�li�ca”�ob�u�hva�}e�ni�op�-tu�̀ e�ni�i�to�u�svom�kri�vi~�nom�pred�me�tu�za�rat�ni�zlo�~in.�Ma�da�de�lu�je�pa�ra�-dok�sal�no,�ali�u�ana�li�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�}e�osta�ti�za�be�le�̀ e�no�za�svavre�me�na�da�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�po�kre�nu�lo�po�stu�pak�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da�pro�-tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�za�to�{to�je�na�vod�no�obe�lo�da�nio�ime�jed�nogza�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka.�Ma�da�je�pro�ble�ma�ti~�no�da�li�bi�uop�{te�op�tu�̀ e�ni�upri�tvo�ru�ko�ji�se�sam�bra�ni�mo�gao�kri�vi~�no�da�od�go�va�ra�i�za�ne�po�{to�va�wesu�da�u�istom�po�stup�ku�u�ko�me�se�kri�vi~�no�go�ni�i�za�ono�{to�se�na�zi�va�rat�-ni�zlo�~in,�ti�me�se�ne�ba�vi�ova�kwi�ga.�Me�|u�tim,�ra�di�celovito�sti�in�for�-ma�ci�ja�ko�je�po�ma�̀ u�da�se�kwi�ga�bo�qe�raz�u�me,�mo�ra�da�se�na�ve�de�da�tu�ini�ci�-ja�ti�vu�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e�ni�je�ni�uze�lo�u�raz�ma�tra�we,�a�prof.�drVo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�du�go�ni�je�ni�mo�gao�da�sa�zna�za�sa�dr�̀ i�nu�tog�ak�ta�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva.�Ve�ro�vat�no�je�ta�ini�ci�ja�ti�va�do�̀ i�ve�la�fi�ja�sko�za�to�{to�prof.�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�ni�je�ni�bi�lo�obe�lo�da�we�no�ime�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka,�te�ni�-je�ni�mo�gao�da�zna�da�po�sto�ji�ne�ka�za�bra�na.

Da�bi�se�pot�pu�no�shva�tio�zah�tev�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ko�ji�je�do�-ku�men�to�va�no�ob�ra�|en�u�ovoj�kwi�zi,�ka�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�po�kre�}e�po�stu�pak�zane�po�{to�va�we�su�da,�ono�to�ra�di�u�for�mi�op�tu�̀ ni�ce�kao�ini�ci�jal�nog�ak�ta�poko�me�po�stu�pa�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e.�Ka�da�ne�ko�dru�gi,�osim�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�po�kre�}eovaj�po�stu�pak,�to�se�ra�di�u�for�mi�zah�te�va,�{to�je�u�pot�pu�no�sti�kom�pa�ti�bil�-no�sa�pra�vi�lom�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka.�Pojam�“sva�li�ca” bi�mo�ra�o�da�se�tu�ma�~i�{i�-ro�ko�i�bez�iz�u�zet�ka,� jer�to�od�go�va�ra� sta�tu�tar�nim�ovla�{}e�wi�ma�Ha�{kogtri�bu�na�la�da�na�vod�no�spro�vo�di�prav�du.�To�bi�mo�ra�lo�da�zna�~i�da�ni�ko�nesme� da� bu�de� po{te|en� od�go�vor�no�sti� za� ne�po�{to�va�we� su�da� i� spre�~a�va�wespro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de.�Uosta�lom,�onaj�ko�za�stu�pa�op�tu�̀ bu�pred�Ha�{kim�tri�-bu�na�lom�i�onaj�ko�ji�bra�ni�pred�Ha�{kim�tri�bu�na�lom�su�rav�no�prav�ni�i�jed�-6

Page 7: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

na�ki�u�oru �̀ju.�Ako�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�mo�glo�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�ma�da�po�kre�}e�po�stup�-ke�i�pro�tiv�bra�ni�o�ca�–advo�ka�ta,�ko�ji�je�pred�sta�vqao�od�bra�nu,�on�da�je�od�bra�-na,�bez�ob�zi�ra�na�to�da�li�je�u�ru�ka�ma�bra�ni�o�ca�ili�op�tu�̀ e�nog�ko�ji�se�sambra�ni,�ovla�{}e�na�da�ini�ci�ra�po�stu�pak�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da�ka�ko�pro�tivsve�do�ka,�no�vi�na�ra,�tre�}ih�li�ca,�ta�ko�i�pro�tiv�ovla�{}e�nih�li�ca�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva,�i�to�kao�po�je�di�na�ca�ko�ji�su�iz�vr�{i�li�ka�̀ wi�vo�de�lo�ne�po�{to�va�wa�su�-da.�

Na�rav�no,�na�mo�gu}�nost�po�kre�ta�wa�po�stup�ka�pro�tiv�od�go�vor�nih,�ovla�-{}e�nih�i�onih�li�ca�ko�ja�su�u�ime�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�po�stu�pa�la�u�po�stup�ku�pro�tivprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ne�bi�sme�la�da�ima�uti�ca�ja�od�red�ba�~la�na�30Sta�tu�ta�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�o�sta�tu�su,�po�vla�sti�ca�ma�i�imu�ni�te�tu�me�|u�na�-rod�nog�su�da.�Pra�vi�la�o�sta�tu�su,�po�vla�sti�ca�ma�i�imu�ni�te�tu�su�u�funk�ci�juspro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de�pred�Ha�{kim�tri�bu�na�lom,�a�ne�u�funk�ci�ji�ne�ka�̀ we�nogi�ne�do�zvo�qe�nog�po�na�{a�wa�ovla�{}e�nih�li�ca�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Napro�sto�in�te�-res�spro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de�pred�me�|u�na�rod�nim�su�dom�ni�ko�ga�ne�oslo�ba�|a�od�go�-vor�no�sti,�a�uko�li�ko�bi�bi�lo�dru�ga�~i�je,�od�no�sno�da�su�oni�ko�ji�po�stu�pa�ju�is�-pred�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�ime�op�tu�̀ be�za�{ti�}e�ni�imu�ni�te�tom,�on�da�se�s�pra�vomdo�vo�di�u�pi�ta�we�le�ga�li�tet�ra�da�i�sud�skog�de�la�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la,�jer�se�on�-da�ne�pro�na�la�zi�in�te�res�prav�de.�Do�du�{e,�uvek�ka�da�ne�do�sta�ju�re�~i�za�pone�-ki�stav�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la,�uvek�se�po�zo�vu�da�su�ne�{to�ura�di�li�s�po�zi�vom�nane�ki�deo�me�|u�na�rod�nog�obi�~aj�nog�pra�va,�ali�uvek�u�in�te�re�su�spro�vo�|e�waprav�de.�

Svi�ko�ji�re�dov�no�~i�ta�ju�de�la�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�u�ovoj�kwi�-zi�}e�pro�na�}i�ma�te�ri�ja�le�i�pre�po�zna�ti�da�on�otva�ra�jo{�jed�nu�“za�bra�we�nute�mu”�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.�On�i�ovom�kwi�gom,�upor�no�i�na�sva�kom�ko�ra�ku,`i�go�{e,�kri�ti�ku�je,�upo�zo�ra�va�jav�nost�i�ja�sno�iz�no�si�svo�je�sta�vo�ve�i�do�ka�ze{ta�u�svo�joj�su�{ti�ni�pred�sta�vqa�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nal.

U�ovoj�kwi�zi�se�na�la�ze:�zah�tev�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�od�8.�mar�ta2007.�go�di�ne�ko�ji�je�pod�neo�nad�le�̀ nom�Pre�tre�snom�ve�}u�III za�po�kre�ta�wepo�stup�ka� za� ne�po�{to�va�we� me�|u�na�rod�nog� su�da� pro�tiv� Kar�le� del� Pon�te,Hil�de�gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�ni�je�la�Sakso�na;�16�sud�ski�ove�re�nih�iz�ja�va�sve�-do�ka,�od�no�sno�po�ten�ci�jal�nih�sve�do�ka�pre�ma�ko�ji�ma�je�po�na�lo�gu�ovla�{}e�nihi�od�go�vor�nih�li�ca�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pri�me�we�na�pret�wa,�ko�ji�su�za�stra�{i�va�ni,na�ne�ta�im�je�{te�ta�i�nu�|en�mi�to�ka�ko�bi�pri�sta�li�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�ko�ji�bipo�na�lo�gu�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�bi�li�sprem�ni�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa;�dve�sud�ski�ove�re�ne�iz�ja�ve�li�ca�ko�ji�ma�se�`a�lio�na�pri�ti�-ske�i�pret�we�je�dan�po�ten�ci�jal�ni�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�a�ko�ji�je�za�kqu�~io�daje�to�po�stao�ta�ko�{to�su�ga�pre�va�ri�li�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�da�pot�pi�-{e�ne�ku�iz�ja�vu,�a�on�i�da�nas�ne�zna�{ta�je�pod�pret�wom�pot�pi�sao.�

Tu�je�i�do�de�ta�qa�opi�san�je�dan�pri�kaz�de�lo�va�wa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ma�po�-ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�ko�ji�je�us�peo�da�odo�li�svim�pret�wa�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�tedva�in�te�re�sant�na�tek�sta�ob�ja�vqe�na�u�no�vi�na�ma�o�ne�za�do�voq�stvu�jed�nog�su�di�jeHa�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�ra�dom�Kar�le�del�Pon�te�i�auten�ti~a�n�tekst�o�tome�ka�ko�jeiza�bra�na�za�tu�̀ i�o�ca�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�i�da�ome�ta�we�spro�vo�|e�wa�prav�depred�pra�vo�su�|em�ni�je�iz�u�ze�tak,�ve}�pra�vi�lo�po�na�{a�wa�Kar�le�del�Pon�te,�ko�-je�vu�~e�jo{�iz�vre�me�na�ka�da�je�bi�la�dr�̀ av�ni�tu�̀ i�lac�u�[vaj�car�skoj.�

Ovaj�pred�go�vor�bi�sva�ka�ko�bio�ne�do�re�~en�uko�li�ko�bi�iz�o�sta�la�i�dva�vr�-7

Page 8: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

lo�va�̀ na�oba�ve�{te�wa�kao�pod�se�}a�we.�Pr�vo,�da�su�se�svi�u�[vaj�car�skoj�ne�-pri�jat�no�iz�ne�na�di�li�ka�da�su�~u�li�da�je�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�iza�bra�na�za�tu�̀ i�-o�ca�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la,�jer�je�napro�sto�na�met�nut�za�kqu�~ak�da�Uje�di�we�ne�na�-ci�je�ne�̀ e�le�da�zna�ju�da�se�pro�tiv�we�vo�de�po�stup�ci�u�[vaj�car�skoj,�pred�pra�-vo�su�|em�i�par�la�men�tom,�i�da�je�to�tre�}om�li�ni�jom�do�{lo�i�do�Evrop�skog�su�-da�za�qud�ska�pra�va.�Na�rav�no,�ne�iz�o�stav�no�je�i�dru�go�pod�se�}a�we,�da�je�prof.dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�jo{�od�pr�vog�da�na�pri�tvo�ra,�24.�fe�bru�a�ra�2003.�go�di�ne,nekoliko�pu�ta�pro�zi�vao�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�da�se�u�po�stup�ku�pro�tiv�we�ga�ko�ri�stipri�ti�sci�ma�i�dru�gim�ne�do�zvo�qe�nim�sred�stvi�ma�u�obez�be�|e�wu�sve�do�ka�ko�jisu�pri�mo�ra�ni�da�la�̀ no�svedo~e.�Ako�su�ra�ni�ja�upo�zo�re�wa�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�-va�[e�{e�qa�od�stra�ne�Pre�tre�snog�ve�}a�ola�ko�tre�ti�ra�na,�za�to�{to�ni�je�biou�sta�wu�da�zbog�pri�tvo�ra�obez�be�di�do�ka�ze�za�svo�je�tvrd�we,�on�da�je�zah�tev�ko�-ji�se�na�la�zi�u�sre�di�{tu�ove�kwi�ge�pot�kre�pqen�i�do�ku�men�to�van�neo�bo�ri�vimdo�ka�zi�ma.

Da�kle,�opet�je�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�u�pra�vu�i�po�ko�zna�ko�ji�put�jedo�ka�zao�da�uvek�iz�no�si�sa�mo�isti�nu.�To�zna�~i�da�je�i�ovo�no�vo�Pre�tre�sno�ve�-}e,�isto�kao�i�sva�pret�hod�na,�na�svo�je�vr�snom�is�pi�tu�~e�mu�da�po�klo�ni�svo�juve�ru.�

Si�gu�ran�sam�da�bi�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�bi�lo�iz�u�zet�no�dra�go�ka�-da�bi�ova�kwi�ga�po�slu�̀ i�la�kao�po�la�zi�{te�za�iz�bor�te�me�ne�kom�mla�dom�na�-u~�nom�rad�ni�ku�ko�ji�bi�ob�ra�dio� te�mu�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog� su�da�iome�ta�we�spro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de.�Po�zna�va�ju�}i�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�si�-gu�ran�sam�da�je�ovom�kwi�gom�otvo�rio�i�za�we�ga�i�za�prav�nu�na�u�ku�va�̀ nu�te�-mu�i�da�}e�sva�ka�od�lu�ka�Pre�tre�snog�ve�}a�po�vo�dom�ovog�we�go�vog�zah�te�va,�ko�-ji�se�na�la�zi�u�sre�di�{tu�kwi�ge,�bi�ti�po�vod�za�no�ve�ra�do�ve,�ana�li�ze�i�pri�ka�-ze.�Kwi�gu�pre�po�ru�~u�jem,�jer�je�in�te�re�sant�na�za�sva�ko�ga,�ka�ko�za�one�ko�ji�`e�-le�{to�vi�{e�da�sa�zna�ju�o�pra�vu,�ta�ko�i�za�one�ko�ji�ma�mo�̀ e�bi�ti�in�te�re�sant�-no�i�sa�mo�sa�zna�we�ka�ko�se�vr�{e�pret�we,�za�stra�{i�va�we,�nu�|e�we�mi�ta�i�dru�-gih�po�god�no�sti,�sa�mo�da�bi�se�obez�be�di�lo�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e�we.

Zo ran Kra si}

Pod ne sak

Po�na�lo�gu�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�Stru~�ni�tim�ko�ji�mu�po�ma�̀ e�upri�pre�mi�od�bra�ne�u�sa�sta�vu:�To�mi�slav�Ni�ko�li},�Bran�ki�ca�Ter�zi},�Slav�koJer�ko�vi},�Amyat�Mi�ga�ti,�Gor�da�na�Pop-La�zi},�Mir�ko�Bla�go�je�vi},�Alek�san�-dar�Vu�~i},�Pe�tar�Jo�ji},�Dra�gan�To�do�ro�vi},�Ve�sna�Zo�be�ni�ca,�Zo�ran�Kra�si},No�vak�Sa�vi},�Vje�ri�ca�Ra�de�ta,�Fi�lip�Sto�ja�no�vi},�Zla�ta�Ra�do�va�no�vi},�Qi�qa�-8

Page 9: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

na�Mi�haj�lo�vi},�Ele�na�Bo�̀ i}-Ta�li�jan,�Ma�ri�na�Ra�gu{,�Ve�sna�Ma�ri},�Mo�mirMar�ko�vi},�Ja�dran�ko�Vu�ko�vi},�Og�wen�Mi�haj�lo�vi},�Bran�ko�Na�do�ve�za,�Ma�ri�naTo�man�i�Ne�ma�wa�[a�ro�vi}�pri�pre�mio�je�“Zah�tev�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa�da�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e�IIIpo�kre�ne�po�stu�pak�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�-da�pro�tiv�Kar�le�del�Pon�te,�Hil�de�gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�ni�e�la�Sa�kso�na”.�Da�-na�8.�mar�ta�2007.�go�di�ne�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�Pre�tre�snom�ve�}u�III,�usa�sta�vu:�su�di�ja�@an-Klo�d�An�to�net�i,�su�di�ja�Pa�trik�Lip�ton�Ro�bin�son�i�su�di�-ja�Ian�Bo�nomi,�u�okvi�ru�svog�pred�me�ta�br.�IT�-�03�-�67�–�PT,�pod�neo�

Zahtev prof. dr Vojislava [e{eqa da Pretresno ve}e IIIpokrene postupak za nepo{tovawe me|unarodnog suda protiv

Karle del Ponte, Hildegard Uerc-Reclaf i Danijela Sakxona

I Uvod

“Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�za�sva�ki�slu�~aj,�ovim�zah�te�vom�una�pred,�tra�-`i�i�odo�bre�we�za�pre�ko�ra�~e�we�bro�ja�stra�ni�ca�u�od�no�su�na�ogra�ni�~e�we�ko�je�jepro�pi�sa�no�Uput�stvom�o�du�̀ i�ni�pod�ne�sa�ka�i�zah�te�va.�Od�lu�kom�Pre�tre�snog�ve�-}a�I o�pod�no�{e�wu�pod�ne�sa�ka�od�19.�ju�na�2006.�go�di�ne�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�-{e�qu�je�na�met�nu�to�ogra�ni�~e�we�da�we�go�vi�pod�ne�sci�i�zah�te�vi�ne�mo�gu�ima�tivi�{e�od�800�re�~i,�te�je�prak�ti~�no�za�sva�ki�pod�ne�sak�du�̀ an�da�pret�hod�no�tra�-`i�odo�bre�we�za�pre�ko�ra�~e�we�bro�ja�stra�ni�ca.�

Ovim�zah�te�vom�se�po�kre�}e�i�tra�̀ i�da�se�re�{i�pi�ta�we�da�li�su�pred�stav�-ni�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�pred�me�tu�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�ne�do�zvo�-qe�nim�sred�stvi�ma�na�sto�ja�li�da�pri�mo�ra�ju�sve�do�ke�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e,�pret�wa�-ma,�za�stra�{i�va�wem,�na�no�{e�wem�{te�te,�nu�|e�wem�mi�ta,�od�no�sno�uce�wu�ju�}i�ihi�pot�ku�pqu�ju�}i�ih.�Re�{e�we�ovog�pi�ta�wa�sva�ka�ko�pred�sta�vqa�zna�~aj�no�pi�ta�weza�po�~e�tak�pre�tre�sa,�da�qi�tok�su�|e�wa,�a�sa�mim�tim�i�za�pra�vi~�no�su�|e�we.�Upi�ta�wu�je�zna�~i�iz�u�zet�na�okol�nost�ko�ja�zah�te�va�{i�ru�ela�bo�ra�ci�ju�na�ve�}embro�ju�stra�ni�ca.�Ovo�odo�bre�we�se�tra�̀ i�u�skla�du�sa�Uput�stvom�o�du�̀ i�ni�pod�-ne�sa�ka�i�zah�te�va�i�Od�lu�kom�o�pod�no�{e�wu�pod�ne�sa�ka�od�19.�ju�na�2006.�go�di�ne�naisti�na�~in�ka�ko�to�~i�ni�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo,�u�okvi�ru�pod�ne�ska�se�tra�̀ i�odo�bre�weza�pre�ko�ra�~e�we�bro�ja�stra�ni�ca�tog�pod�ne�ska.�

Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo� je� 15.� ja�nu�a�ra� 2003.� go�di�ne� po�di�glo� op�tu�̀ ni�cu� pro�tivprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�MKSJ�je�po�tvr�dio�op�tu�̀ ni�cu�14.�fe�bru�a�ra2003.�go�di�ne.

Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�24.�fe�bru�a�ra�2003.�go�di�ne�do�bro�voq�no�do�-{ao�u�Hag.�U�pri�tvo�ru�je�ve}�pe�tu�go�di�nu�i�~e�ka�po�~e�tak�su�|e�wa.

Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�jo{�26.�fe�bru�a�ra�2003.�go�di�ne�oba�ve�stioMKSJ�da�}e�sam�da�se�bra�ni,�uz�po�mo}�Stru~�nog�ti�ma�ko�ji�je�for�mi�rao,�a�~i�-ji�su�~la�no�vi�li�ca�u�ko�ja�ima�po�ve�re�we�da�}e�mu�po�we�go�vim�na�lo�zi�ma�po�ma�-ga�ti�u�pri�pre�mi�od�bra�ne.�

Na�zah�tev�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�od�28.�fe�bru�a�ra�2003.�go�di�ne�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e�II je9.�ma�ja�2003.�go�di�ne�do�ne�lo�od�lu�ku�o�do�de�li�bra�ni�o�ca�u�pri�prav�no�sti.�Ciq�jebio�da�se�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�one�mo�gu�}i�kva�li�tet�na�pri�pre�ma�od�-

9

Page 10: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

bra�ne.�Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�je�dva�pu�ta�od�u�ze�to�pra�vo�da�se�sam�bra�nii�na�si�lu�mu�je�do�de�qen�bra�ni�lac.�Pro�tiv�od�lu�ka�o�do�de�li�bra�ni�la�ca�u�pri�-prav�no�sti�(bi�lo�ih�je�vi�{e),�a�od�21.�av�gu�sta�2006.�go�di�ne�i�27.�no�vem�bra�2006.go�di�ne�od�lu�ka�o�do�de�li�bra�ni�o�ca�po�slu�̀ be�noj�du�̀ no�sti,�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav[e�{eq�je�vo�dio�po�stup�ke�pred�MKSJ.�Od�lu�ka�ma�@al�be�nog�ve�}a�od�20.�ok�to�-bra�2006.�go�di�ne�i�8.�de�cem�bra�2006.�go�di�ne�dva�pu�ta�je�utvr�|e�na�ne�za�ko�ni�tostna�me�ta�wa�bra�ni�la�ca�op�tu�̀ e�nom�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�i�dva�pu�ta�mu�jevra�}e�no�pra�vo�da�se�sam�bra�ni.�

Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�po�sle�go�di�nu�da�na�pri�tvo�ra,�ka�da�se�uve�rioda�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ko�ri�sti�la�̀ ne�op�tu�̀ be,�la�̀ ne�sve�do�ke�i�da�ni�je�sprem�no�zapo�~e�tak�su�|e�wa,�tra�̀ io�da�ga�MKSJ�pu�sti�na�slo�bo�du�do�po�~et�ka�su�|e�wa.�Tu�-`i�la�{tvo�se�us�pro�ti�vi�lo,�tvr�de�}i�da�}e�su�|e�we�po�~e�ti�kra�jem�2004.�go�di�ne.Na�rav�no�su�|e�we�ni�je�po�~e�lo�ni�do�da�na�{weg�da�na.�Ne�u�spe�li�po�ku�{aj�je�bio27.�no�vem�bra�2006.�go�di�ne.

Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�ra�di�{to�kva�li�tet�ni�je�pri�pre�me�od�bra�nezah�te�vao�da�Se�kre�ta�ri�jat�re�gi�stru�je�li�ca,�~la�no�ve�Stru~�nog�ti�ma�ko�ji�mu�po�-ma�̀ u�u�pri�pre�mi�od�bra�ne.�Taj�zah�tev�go�to�vo�da�i�ni�je�uzet�u�raz�ma�tra�we.

Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�tra�̀ io�i�da�mu�se�pri�zna�ju�tri�prav�na�sa�-vet�ni�ka�po�we�go�vom�iz�bo�ru.�Taj�zah�tev�je�go�di�na�ma�od�bi�jan,�ali�7.�de�cem�bra2006.� go�di�ne� Se�kre�ta�ri�jat� je� na�po�kon� re�gi�stro�vao� tri� prav�na� sa�vet�ni�kaprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Za�~e�ti�ri�go�di�ne�pri�tvo�ra�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�bio�iz�lo�̀ enbroj�nim�re�strik�ci�ja�ma:�za�bra�na�pri�je�ma�u�po�se�tu�~la�no�va�Stru~�nog�ti�ma;�ujed�nom�pe�ri�o�du�za�bra�na�i�te�le�fon�ske�ko�mu�ni�ka�ci�je�sa�~la�no�vi�ma�po�ro�di�ce�i~la�no�vi�ma�Stru~�nog�ti�ma;�upor�no�do�sta�vqa�we�ma�te�ri�ja�la�na�stra�nom�je�zi�kui�u�elek�tron�skoj�for�mi.

Ka�da�se�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�omo�gu�}i�te�le�fon�ska�ko�mu�ni�ka�ci�jasa�Stru~�nim�ti�mom�ko�ji�mu�po�ma�̀ e�u�pri�pre�mi�od�bra�ne,�raz�go�vo�ri�se�pri�slu�-{ku�ju,�te�prak�ti~�no�i�ne�po�sto�ji�mo�gu}�nost�za�kva�li�tet�nu�pri�pre�mu�od�bra�ne,jer�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�istog�da�na�pr�vo�sa�zna�sa�dr�̀ i�nu�raz�go�vo�ra�i�ima�pot�pu�niuvid�u�kon�cep�ci�ju�od�bra�ne.�Ta�ko�je,�po�vo�dom�jed�nog�naj�be�za�zle�ni�jeg�te�le�fon�-skog�raz�go�vo�ra�ko�ji�je�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�oba�vio,�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�pro�tivwe�ga�spek�ta�ku�lar�no�po�kre�nu�lo�po�stu�pak�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�Me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�-da.�Taj�zah�tev�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e�ni�je�hte�lo�da�uzme�u�raz�ma�tra�we,�ali�je�za�to�dru�-gom�pri�li�kom,�ka�da�je�Ja�dran�ka�[e�{eq�bi�la�u�po�se�ti�u�[e�ve�nin�ge�nu,�Se�kre�-ta�ri�jat�za�bra�nio�sle�de�}e�po�se�te,�jer�je�na�vod�no�ona�sa�zna�la�ime�na�osam�za�-{ti�}e�nih�sve�do�ka.�Ka�sni�je�su�svi�po�ku�{a�li�i�to�da�za�bo�ra�ve,�jer�na�pro�sto�niprof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�ni�je�bio�oba�ve�{ten�o�ime�ni�ma�za�{ti�}e�nih�sve�do�-ka.�Te�krup�ne�i�na�pr�vi�po�gled�sit�ne�po�vre�de�do�ka�zu�ju�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ni�jesprem�no�za�po�~e�tak�su�|e�wa,�jer�ono�i�ne�ma�do�ka�za�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa.�

Sva�kom�ra�zum�nom�~o�ve�ku�odav�no� je� ja�sno�da�ni�su�po�sto�ja�li�kri�vi~�no�-prav�ni�raz�lo�zi�za�po�di�za�we�op�tu�̀ ni�ce�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.Raz�lo�zi�za�po�di�za�we�op�tu�̀ ni�ce�i�pri�tva�ra�we�su�is�kqu�~i�vo�po�li�ti~�ke�pri�-ro�de.�To�su�na�re�di�li�oni�ko�ji�ne�bi�vo�le�li�da�na�vla�sti�u�Sr�bi�ji�bu�de�prof.10

Page 11: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq.�Ose�ti�li�su�da�po�sto�ji�ja�sna�vo�qa�bi�ra�~a�u�Sr�bi�ji�daprof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�na�iz�bo�ri�ma�po�be�di�i�do�|e�na�vlast.�Oni�ko�ji�suras�tu�ri�li�biv�{u�SFRJ�i�bom�bar�do�va�li�Sa�ve�znu�Re�pu�bli�ku�Ju�go�sla�vi�ju�do�-bro�zna�ju�da�bi�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq,�da�je�na�vla�sti�u�Sr�bi�ji,�in�si�sti�-rao�na�isti�ni�i�wi�ho�voj�od�go�vor�no�sti�za�zlo�~in�pro�tiv�mi�ra.�Da�kle,�ja�sno�jeda�su�u�pi�ta�wu�po�li�ti~�ki�raz�lo�zi�i�op�tu�̀ i�va�we�kao�vid�po�li�ti~�kog�pro�go�naprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.

Da�bi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�us�pe�lo�u�ovom�po�stup�ku�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa,�ono�je�sva�kog�ra�zum�nog�~o�ve�ka�pro�sto�ube�di�lo�da�ne�bi�ra�sred�stvaza�pro�go�n�i�spre�~a�va�we�da�se�ostva�ri�prav�da.�To�se�ra�di�upor�no�i�si�ste�mat�-ski.�Ve�li�ki�je�broj�do�ka�za�ko�ji�do�ka�zu�ju�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�spro�vo�di�pre�sve�gapo�li�ti~�ki�pro�gon,�a�ka�da�se�u�po�stup�ku�po�zi�va�na�za�kon�i�pra�vo,�to�ko�ri�stikao�iz�go�vor�ko�jim�spre�~a�va�ostva�ri�va�we�prav�de.

Da�na,�21.�de�cem�bra�2006.�go�di�ne,�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�je�na�po�kondo�zvo�qe�no�da�svo�jim�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�do�sta�vi�ma�te�ri�ja�le�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvako�ji�se�od�no�se�na�op�tu�̀ be.�Na�kon�{to�su�we�go�vi�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�pro�ve�ri�-li�ma�te�ri�ja�le�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�do�bio�po�tvr�du�zasvo�je�tvrd�we�ko�je�je�od�po�~et�ka�iz�no�sio,�da�su�op�tu�̀ be�za�sno�va�ne�na�la�̀ nimsve�do�ci�ma�i�la�̀ nim�op�tu�̀ ba�ma.�

Do�sve�do�ka�i�ma�te�ri�ja�la�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tvo�je�do�la�zi�lo�na�ne�za�ko�nit�na�~in,�od�no�sno�pu�tem�pret�wi,�za�stra�{i�va�-wem,�pot�ku�pqi�va�wem�i�nu�|e�wem�mi�ta,�~i�me�su�pri�mo�ra�va�li�sve�do�ke�da�pri�-sta�nu�i�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e.�Do�tog�za�kqu~�ka�do�la�zi�sva�ko�ra�zu�man�ako�ima�uvid�ume�to�de�i�u�na�~in�na�koji�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�do�la�zi�do�sve�do�ka�i�ma�te�ri�ja�la.�To�kompro�ve�re�ma�te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa�su�utvr�di�li�da�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�kon�tak�ti�ra�lo�sa�ve�li�kim�bro�jem�li�ca.Me�|u�wi�ma�su�se�na�la�zi�la�i�ona�li�ca�ko�ja�je�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�mo�gaoda�po�zo�ve�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�od�bra�ne.�U�kon�tak�tu�sa�tim�li�ci�ma�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�-ci�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�su�bi�li�za�pre�pa�{}e�ni�wihovom�tvrd�wa�ma�ome�to�da�ma�ko�je�su�ko�ri�sti�li�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pri�li�kom�kon�tak�ti�-ra�wa�sa�wi�ma�i�ka�ko�su�ih�sve�po�ku�{a�va�li�da�na�go�vo�re�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tva�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Na�~in�na�ko�ji�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�vo�di�li�slu�̀ be�ne�raz�go�vo�resa�tim�li�ci�ma�i�ono�{to�su�zah�te�va�li�od�wih�u�po�gle�du�sa�rad�we�sa�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tvom�pred�sta�vqa�ne�za�ko�ni�to�i�ka�̀ wi�vo�de�lo�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da�iz�pra�vi�-la�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka�o�po�stup�ku�i�do�ka�zi�ma.�

II Op tu ̀ be za ne po {to va we Me |u na rod nog su da

Pra�vi�lom�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka�o�po�stup�ku�i�do�ka�zi�ma�pro�pi�sa�no�je�ka�̀ wa�va�-we�sva�kog�li�ca�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.�Re�le�vant�ni�de�lo�vi�pra�-vi�la�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka�gla�se:

“(A)�Vr�{e�}i�svo�ja�in�he�rent�na�ovla�{}e�wa,�Me�|u�na�rod�ni�sud�mo�̀ e�pro�-gla�si�ti�kri�vim�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�su�da�one�ko�ji�sve�sno�i�na�mer�no�ome�ta�ju�spro�-vo�|e�we�prav�de,�ukqu�~u�ju�}i�sva�ko�li�ce:�

(iv)�ko�ja�pre�ti�sve�do�ku,�za�stra�{u�je�ga,�na�bi�lo�ko�ji�na�~in�mu�na�ne�se�{te�-11

Page 12: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

tu�ili�mu�po�nu�di�mi�to�ili�na�dru�gi�na�~in�uti�~e�na�sve�do�ka�ko�ji�sve�do�~i�ilije�sve�do�~io�ili�}e�sve�do�~i�ti�u�po�stup�ku�pred�ve�}em�ili�na�po�ten�ci�jal�nog�sve�-do�ka;”�

“(B)�Pod�sti�ca�we�na�iz�vr�{e�we�i�po�ku�{aj�iz�vr�{e�wa�bi�lo�ko�jeg�od�de�laka�̀ wi�vih�po�sta�vu�(A)�ovog�pra�vi�la�ka�̀ wi�vi�su�kao�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�-rod�nog�su�da�i�po�vla�~e�iste�ka�zne”.

“(C)�Kad�ve�}e�ima�raz�lo�ga�za�sum�wu�da�bi�ne�ko�li�ce�mo�glo�bi�ti�kri�vo�zane�po�{to�va�we�su�da,�ono�mo�̀ e:

(iii)�samo�za�po�~e�ti�po�stu�pak”.“(D)�Ako�ve�}e�sma�tra�da�po�sto�ji�do�vo�qan�osnov�za�po�stu�pak�zbog�ne�po�-

{to�va�wa�su�da�pro�tiv�ne�kog�li�ca,�ve�}e�mo�̀ e:(ii)�u�okol�no�sti�ma�opi�sa�nim�u�sta�vu�(C)(ii)�ili�(iii),�iz�da�ti�na�log�in lo co

op�tu�̀ ni�ce�i�za�tim�bi�lo�upu�ti�ti�ami cus cu ri ae da�pre�du�zme�kri�vi~�no�go�we�webi�lo�samo�pred�u�ze�ti�kri�vi~�no�go�we�we�u�toj�stva�ri”.

U�ime�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�pred�me�tu�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�op�-tu�̀ bu�za�stu�pa�ju�tu�̀ i�lac�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�i�tu�̀ i�la~�ki�za�stup�ni�ci�Hil�de�-gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�nij�el�Sak�son.�Oni�su�u�ime�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�od�go�vor�ni�zaop�tu�̀ ni�cu�i�do�ka�zne�ma�te�ri�ja�le�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Na�log�ka�ko�da�se�obez�be�|u�judo�ka�zi�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�da�la�je�Kar�la�del�Pon�te,�a�ope�ra�-tiv�ne� za�dat�ke� is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva� i� ne�po�sred�no� vo�|e�we� ~i�ta�vogpro�ce�sa�pri�ku�pqa�wa�do�ka�za�ne�za�ko�ni�tim�sred�stvi�ma�iz�vr�{i�li�su�Hil�de�gardUerc-Reclaf�i�Da�nij�el�Sak�xon.�Oni�su�od�go�vor�ni�za�rad�we�ome�ta�wa�spro�-vo�|e�wa�prav�de�i�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.�Na�ne�ko�li�ko�pri�me�rase�mo�̀ e�ilu�stro�va�ti�ko�ri�{}e�we�ne�do�zvo�qe�nih�sred�sta�va�ko�ja�su�sank�ci�o�ni�-sa�na�pra�vi�lom�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka:

1. Ne nad Jo vi} iz Ma log Zvor ni kaIs�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�sa�wim�oba�vi�li�~e�ti�ri�raz�go�vo�ra.�Pr�vi

2002.�go�di�ne,�a�~e�tvr�ti�sa�19.�do�22.�ok�to�bra�2006.�go�di�ne.�Svi�raz�go�vo�ri�su�tra�-ja�li�po�ne�ko�li�ko�da�na,�a�~e�tvr�ti�raz�go�vor�je�tra�jao�~e�ti�ri�da�na�i�oba�vqen�jene�po�sred�no�pre�27.�no�vem�bra�2006.�go�di�ne,�kao�pla�ni�ra�nog�da�tu�ma�po�~et�ka�su�-|e�wa.�Da�kle,�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�je�sve�sno�da�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�~e�ti�rigo�di�ne�ne�za�ko�ni�to�dr�̀ i�u�pri�tvo�ru�i�tek�ok�to�bra�2006.�go�di�ne�po�ku�{a�va�daiz�ovog�sve�do�ka�i{�~u�pa�ne�{to�{to�bi�upo�tre�bi�li�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�-va�[e�{e�qa.�Zna�~i,�tri�pret�hod�na�raz�go�vo�ra�ni�su�da�la�do�voq�no�ma�te�ri�ja�lapro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra�u�ok�to�bru�2006.�go�di�nesme�wi�va�li�su�se�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�i�sve�dok�je�da�no�no}�no�uma�ran�do�iz�ne�mo�glo�sti,ka�ko�bi�se�pre�lo�mi�la�we�go�va�od�lu�ka�i�spa�sio�svo�je�vr�sne�tor�tu�re.�To�sve�sumo�gli�da�ra�de,�jer�su�ga�od�po�~et�ka,�jo{�2002.�go�di�ne,�dr�̀ a�li�u�ne�iz�ve�sno�sti�istal�no� mu� pro�du�bqi�va�li� strah,� po�~ev� od� na�~i�na� po�zi�va�wa,� pre�do�~a�va�wa{tet�nih�po�sle�di�ca�ako�se�ne�oda�zo�ve�po�zi�vu,�upor�nim�po�na�vqa�wem�istih�pi�-ta�wa,�su�ge�sti�ja�ma�da�}e�olak�{a�ti�svo�ju�sa�vest�ako�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i,�pa�ine�pre�kid�nim�ra�dom�bez�pa�u�za.�Na�rav�no,�gru�pa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�je�to�i�fi�zi~�ki�ipsi�hi~�ki�mo�gla�da�iz�dr�̀ i�po�{to�su�se�s�vre�me�na�na�vre�ma�me�wa�li�u�pro�sto�-ri�ji�za�is�pi�ti�va�we,�ali�ovaj�sve�dok�to�ni�je�mo�gao�da�iz�dr�̀ i,�jer�mu�sa�ti�ma�ni�-su�do�zvo�qa�va�li�ni�da�usta�ne�sa�sto�li�ce.�Za�~e�ti�ri�da�na�jed�nom�je�spa�vao�sa�mood�12,00�do�16,00�sa�ti.�Od�tog�is�pi�ti�va�wa�je�bio�to�li�ko�slo�mqen�da�je�~e�ti�ri12

Page 13: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

da�na�pro�veo�u�kre�ve�tu.�Tvr�di�da�mu�je�to�kom�is�pi�ti�va�wa�ne�{to�sta�vqe�no�uhra�nu.

Tvr�di�da�je�od�we�ga�zah�te�va�no�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�-ke�i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�a�da�mu�je�u�za�me�nu�nu�|e�no�da�ne�}ebi�ti�op�tu�̀ en,�da�}e�mu�pro�me�ni�ti�iden�ti�tet�i�da�}e�bi�ti�pre�ba�~en�sa�svo�jompo�ro�di�com�da�`i�vi�i�ra�di�u�ino�stran�stvu.�Ako�je�sve�do�ku�bi�lo�pre�do�~e�no�da}e�mo�̀ da�pro�tiv�we�ga�bi�ti�po�dig�nu�ta�op�tu�̀ ni�ca,�on�da�su�bi�li�du�̀ ni�da�muna�po�~et�ku�raz�go�vo�ra�sve�to�ob�ja�sne�i�da�se�raz�go�vor�sni�ma�u�skla�du�sa�Pra�-vil�ni�kom.�On�tvr�di�da�ni�{ta�ni�je�do�bio�i�da�ni�{ta�ni�je�pot�pi�sao,�ma�da�za�po�-sled�wi�raz�go�vor�u�ok�to�bru�2006.�go�di�ne�ne�mo�̀ e�sa�si�gur�no�{}u�to�da�tvr�di,jer�sma�tra�da�su�ga�pri�li�kom�tog�is�pi�ti�va�wa�pre�ko�hra�ne�otro�va�li�ili�dro�-gi�ra�li.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�Zvor�nik.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra�o�do�ga�|a�-ji�ma�u�Zvor�ni�ku,�ovaj�sve�dok�je�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�-vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�i�da�su�po�ku�{a�li�da�ga�pot�ku�pe�sa�mo�da�bi�sve�do�~io�pro�-tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Da�kle,�u�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�-vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�-ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ne�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�se�pret�wa�ma,�uce�na�ma�i�pot�puk�pqi�va�wem�tra�̀ i�lo�da�la�-`no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�2.�mar�ta�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�^e�tvr�-tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.br.�3014/2007.�

2. Zo ran Dra ̀ i lo vi} iz Be o gra daNa�po�ziv�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�on�je�osam�pu�ta�raz�go�vo�rao�sa�is�tra�-

`i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�Be�o�gra�du�u�pe�ri�o�du�od�kra�ja�2002.�go�di�ne�do�kra�ja2004.�go�di�ne.�Raz�go�vo�ri�su�tra�ja�li�da�ni�ma.�Tra�̀ i�li�su�da�sa�ra�|u�je�sa�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tvom,�a�iz�ja�vu�su�mu�uzi�ma�li�u�svoj�stvu�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�-va�[e�{e�qa.�To�je�ra�|e�no�pu�tem�pret�wi�i�uce�na:�ako�ne�sa�ra�|u�je�te,�on�da�}e�tese�dam�go�di�na�u�za�tvor�ili�ka�zna�od�250.000�evra.

Is�pi�ti�va�li� su� ga� sa� una�pred�pri�pre�mqe�nim�pi�ta�wi�ma�i� od�go�vo�ri�ma.Osim�stal�nog�po�na�vqa�wa�istih�pi�ta�wa�i�in�si�sti�ra�wa�da�sve�dok�da�za�wih�po�-vo�qan�od�go�vor,�wi�ho�va�upor�nost�je�~e�sto�pre�la�zi�la�u�qut�wu�i�iz�la�zi�la�izokvi�ra�uzi�ma�wa�iz�ja�ve�u�svo�je�vr�snu�psi�hi~�ku�tor�tu�ru.�Is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�ni�su�bi�ra�li�sred�stva�da�ga�na�te�ra�ju�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa,�po�~ev�od�to�ga�da�sve�do�ka�[e�{eq�ni�je�ni�po�{to�vao,�pa�da�ne�me�po�tre�be�daga�sve�dok�bra�ni,�pre�ko�uno�{e�wa�u�tekst�iz�ja�ve�ne�~e�ga�{to�sve�dok�ni�je�ni�re�-kao,�pa�sve�do�pre�do�~a�va�wa�da�i�sve�dok�mo�̀ e�la�ko�bi�ti�op�tu�̀ en.�Stal�no�suis�ti�ca�li�da�je�iz�u�zet�no�va�̀ an�sve�dok�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�nu�di�li�musta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka,�a�ra�di�wegovog�pri�do�bi�ja�wa�nu�di�li�su�mu�i�za�jed�-ni~�ki�no}�ni�pro�vod�u�gra�du.

Sve�dok�is�ti�~e�da�su�mu�svi�kon�tak�ti�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�iza�-zi�va�li�strah,�a�da�je�to�bi�lo�sa�raz�lo�gom.�Sve�dok�is�ti�~e�da�sa�ga�is�tra�̀ i�te�qiTu�̀ i�la�{tva�uvek�po�zi�va�li�po�sle�i�naj�o�bi~�ni�jeg�te�le�fon�skog�raz�go�vor�sa�ne�-kim�~la�nom�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke.�

13

Page 14: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�o~i�gled�no�in�si�sti�ra�li�i�u�to�me�ni�su�bi�-ra�li�sred�stva�pri�nu�de,�uce�ne�i�pod�mi�}i�va�wa�ka�ko�bi�obez�be�di�li�da�Zo�ra�nDra�̀ i�lo�vi�}�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�jed�nog�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra�o�za�{ti�}e�nom�sve�do�ku�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi}�je�iz�-neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�i�da�su�po�ku�{a�-li�da�ga�pot�ku�pe�sa�mo�da�bi�sve�do�~io�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bi�bio�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�se�pret�wa�ma,uce�na�ma�i�pot�puk�pqi�va�wem�tra�̀ i�lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�-|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�7.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�̂ e�-tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.br.�1667/07.

3. Zdrav ko Abra mo vi} iz Som bo raSve�dok�opi�su�je�ka�ko�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�na�pre�va�ru�do�{li�do

bro�ja�we�go�vog�mo�bil�nog�te�le�fo�na.�Ma�da�se�sve�dok�pro�ti�vio,�is�tra�̀ i�te�qiTu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�fo�to�ko�pi�ra�li�we�gov�pa�so{�i�to�pred�sta�vi�li� �kao�neku�odpro�ce�du�ra�Tri�bu�na�la.�Po�zvan�je�na�raz�go�vor�u�pr�voj�po�lo�vi�ni�2005.�go�di�ne�dabi�bio�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�-vi�}a.�Po�{to�svo�jim�is�ka�zi�ma�ni�je�za�do�vo�qio�o~e�ki�va�wa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tva,�pre�do�~e�no�mu�je�da�ga�mo�gu�po�zva�ti�i�kao�okri�vqe�nog,�da�bi�mu�od�mahza�tim� pre�do~i�li� po�god�no�sti� ko�je� od�go�va�ra�ju� sta�tu�su� za�{ti�}enog� sve�do�ka.Sve�dok�je�od�bio�po�nu�du�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i.�To�ni�je�bi�lo�do�voq�no�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�pa�po�{to�ni�su�za�vr�{i�li�pla�ni�ra�ni�po�sao�na�o~e�ki�va�nina�~in,�u�be�su�su�i�na�kra�ju�raz�go�vo�ra�sve�do�ku�za�pre�ti�li�da�}e�ga�sle�de�}i�putpo�zva�ti�kao�okri�vqe�nog.

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�su�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�jed�nog�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra�o�za�{ti�}e�nom�sve�do�ku�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�Abra�mo�vi}�je�iz�-neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�i�da�su�po�ku�-{a�li�da�ga�pot�ku�pe�sa�mo�da�bi�sve�do�~io�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�se�pret�wa�ma,�uce�-na�ma�i�pot�puk�pqi�va�wem�tra�̀ i�lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�-we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�5.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Som�bo�ru�pod�IIOv.br.�591/2007.

4. Sla vo qub Jo va no vi} iz Som bo raWe�ga�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ok�to�bra�2005.�go�di�ne�mal�tre�ti�ra�li

stal�nim�te�le�fon�skim�po�zi�vi�ma�da�do�|e�na�raz�go�vor�u�kan�ce�la�ri�ju�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Ma�da�je�uvek�od�bi�jao�raz�go�vor�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�-14

Page 15: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

{tva,�oni�su�mu�po�seb�no�za�pre�ti�li�ka�da�ih�je�oba�ve�stio�da�je�od�ra�ni�je�u�kon�-tak�tu�sa�li�ci�ma�ko�ja�po�ma�̀ u�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�u�pri�pre�mi�od�bra�-ne.�Ta�da�su�mu�qu�ti�to�za�pre�ti�li�da�ima�ju�sred�sta�va�da�ga�do�ve�du�u�Hag.�Zbogta�kvog�po�na�{a�wa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�sve�dok�je�me�sec�da�na�bio�u�bol�-ni�ci�i�ta�da�se�opro�stio�od�po�ro�di�ce,�jer�je�to�li�ko�bio�za�stra�{en�da�je�sva�kogda�na�o~e�ki�vao�da�upad�nu�qu�di�iz�Tri�bu�na�la�i�da�ga�od�ve�du�u�Hag.�Sa�tim�stra�-hom�i�da�nas�`i�vi.

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�jed�nog�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva.�To�kom�bo�rav�ka�prav�nih�sa�vet�ni�ka�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�u�Som�-bo�ru,�ja�vio�se�Jo�va�no�vi}�i�ta�da�je�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�-go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�ga�is�tra�̀ i�te�qiTu�̀ i�la�{tva�za�stra�{i�va�li,�da�su�mu�pre�ti�li�da�bi�sve�do�~io�pro�tiv�prof.�drVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu,�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�se�za�stra�{i�va�wemi�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�5.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Som�bo�ru�pod�IIOv.br.�590/2007.

5. Mi lo rad Go gi} iz Lo zni ce U�no�vem�bru�ili�de�cem�bru�2002.�go�di�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tri�bu�na�la�su�ovog

sve�do�ka�po�zi�va�li�iz�ka�fa�ne�u�Lo�zni�ci�u�ko�ju�obi~�no�na�vra�}a�po�sle�tre�nin�ga.Sa�ma�~i�we�ni�ca�da�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�zna�ju�gde�se�kre�}e�i�{ta�ra�dine�ko�ko�bi�mo�gao�da�bu�de�sve�dok�iza�zi�va�strah�da�su�spo�sob�ni�i�u�mo�gu}�no�stida�mu�ura�de�sve�i�sva�{ta.�Ka�da�je�sve�dok�stu�pio�u�kon�takt�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�maTu�̀ i�la�{tva,�pre�do�~e�no�mu�je�da�je�osum�wi�~en�za�ne�ki�rat�ni�zlo�~in.�Ma�da�imje�sve�dok�go�vo�rio�da�je�we�go�va�je�di�ni�ca�pri�pa�da�la�ar�ka�nov�ci�ma,�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�upor�no�in�si�sti�ra�li�da�se�ra�di�o�ra�di�ka�li�ma.�Pre�do�~i�lisu�mu�da�je�ta�je�di�ni�ca�iz�vr�{i�la�rat�ni�zlo�~in�i�da�je�on�po�ko�mand�noj�od�go�-vor�no�sti�od�go�vo�ran,�bez�ob�zi�ra�{to�je�u�vre�me�zlo�~i�na�bio�ra�wen,�op�tu�̀ ni�-ca�bi�pro�tiv�we�ga�bi�la�po�dig�nu�ta�da�ni�je�pri�stao�na�raz�go�vor�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�U�du�gom�raz�go�vo�ru�in�si�sti�ra�li�su�da�sve�dok�po�tvr�di�da�jewe�go�va�je�di�ni�ca�bi�la�sa�sta�vqe�na�od�do�bro�vo�qa�ca�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke,da�su�bi�li�u�ve�zi�sa�Vo�ji�sla�vom�[e�{e�qem�i�da�su�od�we�ga�do�bi�ja�li�na�re�|e�wa.

Sve�dok�je�tre�}i�raz�go�vor�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�oba�vio�kra�jem2006.�go�di�ne�i�ta�da�je�pri�me�tio�da�su�i�pret�hod�na�dva�raz�go�vo�ra�sni�ma�na.�Ka�-ko,�sve�do�ku�ni�je�ja�sno,�ali�su�zah�te�va�li�da�pot�pi�{e�pret�hod�ne�za�pi�sni�ke.�Na�-kon�is�prav�ke�za�pi�sni�ka,�sve�dok�ih�je�pot�pi�sao,�ali�mu�ni�su�uru�~e�ni�pri�mer�-ci�za�pi�sni�ka.�Pi�ta�li�su�ga�i�da�li�pri�sta�je�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�s�tim{to�ni�su�zna�li�da�od�go�vo�re�na�pi�ta�we�pro�tiv�ko�ga.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�do�ga�|a�je�u�Zvor�ni�ku.�To�kom�bo�rav�kaprav�nih�sa�vet�ni�ka�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�u�Zvor�ni�ku,�ja�vio�se�Go�gi}�ita�da�je�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�-sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�-

15

Page 16: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

tu�̀ i�va�wem�za�zlo�~i�ne,�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�-va�[e�{e�qa.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu,�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�su�pret�wa�ma�tra�-`i�li�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�̂ e�-tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.br.�2292/07.

6. Zo ran Su bo ti} iz No vog Sa da Sa�ovim�sve�do�kom�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�raz�go�va�ra�li�dva�pu�ta�u

ju�nu�2003.�go�di�ne�i�jed�nom�u�sep�tem�bru�2003.�go�di�ne.�Pret�hod�no�su�upor�nim�te�-le�fon�skim�po�zi�vi�ma�mal�tre�ti�ra�li�ce�lu�po�ro�di�cu.�Pr�vi�raz�go�vor� je� oba�-vqen�u�pro�sto�ri�ja�ma�Tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du�i�tra�jao�je�dva�da�na.�Na�po�~et�kuraz�go�vo�ra�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ni�su�zna�li�da�od�go�vo�re�na�pi�ta�we�u�kom�svoj�stvu�sevo�di�ra�go�vor�sa�wim,�ali�ka�ko�je�raz�go�vor�te�kao,�bi�lo�je�ja�sno�da�ra�~u�na�ju�datre�ba�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Sve�do�ku�su�nu�-di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�i�za�{ti�tu�za�fa�mi�li�ju.�Du�go�traj�no�is�pi�ti�va�-we,�stal�no�po�na�vqa�we�istih�pi�ta�wa�i�od�bi�ja�we�da�u�za�pi�snik�une�su�iz�ri�~i�topro�ti�vqe�we�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�Su�bo�ti}�je�do�̀ i�veo�i�shva�tio�kaosred�stva�pri�ti�ska,�uce�ne�i�po�ku�{aj�pot�ku�pqi�va�wa�ra�di�la�̀ nog�sve�do�~e�wapro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Do�voq�no�je�po�no�vi�ti�sa�mo�jed�nu�re�~e�ni�cu�ovogsve�do�ka�“ose�}ao�sam�se�kao�u�kon�cen�tra�ci�o�nom�lo�go�ru”.

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�do�ga�|a�je�u�Zvor�ni�ku.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�-ra�Su�bo�ti}�je�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�neo�po�-dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�wem�zazlo�~i�ne�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�13.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�No�vom�Sa�du�pod�OV1.br.�7350/2007.

7. Jo vo Osto ji} iz Pri gre vi ceO� svo�jim� kon�tak�ti�ma� i� raz�go�vo�ri�ma� sa� is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma� Tu�̀ i�la�{tva

Osto�ji}�je�na�pi�sao�i�ob�ja�vio�kwi�gu�Ha�{ki�sve�dok.�Nu�di�li�su�da�iza�be�re�dr�̀ a�vu�u�ko�ju�`e�li�da�ide�ako�pri�hva�ti�da�bu�de�za�-

{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Sve�dok�tvr�di�da�muje�is�tra�̀ i�teq�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sa�op�{tio�da�bi�mo�gli�~ak�i�da�bu�du�pri�ja�te�qi,jer�ima�ju�istog�ne�pri�ja�te�qa�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Iz�ovo�ga�se�ja�sno�utvr�|u�je�daTu�̀ i�la�{tvo�u�pred�me�tu�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�ne�oba�ve�zu�je�vo�-|e�we�is�tra�ge�ra�di�utvr�|i�va�wa�isti�ne,�ve}�mo�ti�vi�{e�mr�̀ wa�pre�ma�prof.�drVo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu.�Ka�da�je�sve�dok�od�bio�da�bu�de�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok�pro�tivVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�mu�re�kli�da�su�ga�po�zva�lida�bi�bio�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a.16

Page 17: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Pri�sva�kom�sle�de�}em�su�sre�tu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�nu�di�li�Osto�-ji�}u�pre�se�qe�we�i�zbri�wa�va�we�po�ro�di�ce,�ako�pri�sta�ne�da�bu�de�sve�dok�pro�tivVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Ka�da�na�sle�de�}em�raz�go�vo�ru�ni�su�us�pe�li�Osto�ji�}a�da�ube�de�da�bu�de�sve�dokTu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�po�te�-gli�naj�te�̀ i�i�ve�ro�vat�no�glav�ni�ar�gu�ment�u�pro�ce�su�ube�|i�va�wa,�a�ko�ji�je�ve�ro�-vat�no�do�sa�da�dao�do�bre�re�zul�ta�te�ka�da�ube�|i�va�we�za�pad�ne�u�}or�so�kak.�Pred�-lo�̀ i�li�su�mu�da�se�su�sret�ne�sa�Flo�rans�Art�man�uz�ube�|i�va�we�ka�ko�je�ona�le�-pa�i�pri�vla~�na�̀ e�na�i�ka�ko�bi�zbog�to�ga�tre�ba�lo�da�raz�go�va�ra�sa�wom.�Sve�dokje�to,�na�rav�no,�od�bio,�ali�je�stvar�no�za�pre�pa�{}u�ju�}e�na�{ta�su�sve�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sprem�ni.�Le�po�ta�i�pri�vla~�nost�Flo�rans�Art�man�kao�adut�nako�ji�su�ra�~u�na�li�da�}e�od�lu~�no�da�pre�lo�mi�sve�do�ka�Osto�ji�}a?�Ko�li�ko�je�jav�-no�sti�po�zna�to�Flo�rans�Art�man�je�bi�la�pred�stav�nik�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�za�me�di�je,�astvar�no�de�lu�je�za�pre�pa�{}u�ju�}e�da�su�je�ko�ri�sti�li�i�da�svo�jom�le�po�tom�i�pri�-vla~�no�{}u�za�vr�{a�va�one�po�slo�ve�ko�je�ni�su�mo�gli�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.U�te�le�fon�skom�raz�go�vo�ru�25.�no�vem�bra�2002.�go�di�ne�is�tra�̀ i�teq�je�pre�tioOsto�ji�}u�da�}e�bi�ti�ubi�jen�za�to�{to�od�bi�ja�sa�rad�wu�sa�Tri�bu�na�lom.�Re�kli�sumu�da�}e�u�Hag�da�ode�`iv�ili�mr�tav,�a�ako�do�|e�`iv,�da�se�ne�}e�ni�vra�ti�ti,�da}e�da�ga�sme�ste�u�jed�nu�ma�lu�pro�sto�ri�ju�gde�je�u�pod,�zi�do�ve�i�pla�fon�po�sta�vqe�-no�ta~�no�100�re�flek�to�ra,�i�da�su�svi�cen�tri�ra�ni�da�si�ja�ju�u�o~i�i�da�}e�tu�dapro�vo�di�da�ne�i�no�}i�i�da�ga�ni�ko�ne�}e�ni�{ta�pi�ta�ti.�Upo�zo�ri�li�su�ga�da�}emo�li�ti�Bo�ga�da�iza�|e,�da�}e�pot�pi�sa�ti�sve�i�sva�{ta�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa�i�da�mu�je�di�no�osta�je�da�za�vr�{i�kao�Dok�ma�no�vi}.

Po�vo�dom�raz�go�vo�ra�ko�je�je�imao�ni�su�mu�da�li�za�pi�sni�ke�i�iz�ja�ve,�a�se�}a�seda�je�na�jed�noj�iz�ja�vi�na�pr�voj�stra�ni�na�pra�vio�{kra�bo�ti�nu,�a�da�su�na�sve�sle�-de�}e�pri�mer�ke�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sta�vi�li�we�go�ve�ini�ci�ja�le.�Sve�dokose}a�ve�li�ki�strah�i�za�to�{to�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ja�sno�sta�vqa�judo�zna�wa�da�do�de�ta�qa�zna�ju�sve�o�we�go�voj�po�ro�di�ci,�a�pret�wa�ma�i�pod�mi�}i�va�-wem�po�ku�{a�va�ju�kod�sve�do�ka�da�iza�zo�vu�mr�̀ wu�pre�ma�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�dabi�se�on�da�oni�po�ja�vi�li�kao�spa�si�o�ci,�pod�uslo�vom�da�sve�dok�la�̀ no�sve�do�~ipro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Sve�do�ka�su�po�sled�wi�put�zva�li�6.�mar�ta�2006.�go�di�ne�i�uz�po�na�vqa�we�pret�-we�po�mi�wa�li�Mom�~i�la�Kra�ji�{ni�ka.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�jed�nog�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva.�Osim�dru�gih�po�da�ta�ka�ko�ji�ma�se�raz�ot�kri�va�ju�la�̀ i�za�{ti�}e�nih�sve�do�-ka,�Osto�ji}�je�pre�ci�zno�opi�sao�i�do�sta�vio�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�wem�za�zlo�~i�ne�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�-tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�nu�|e�wem�sta�tu�sa�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka,�poduslo�vom�da�pri�sta�ne�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�su�pret�wa�ma�i�po�-ku�{a�jem�pot�ku�pqi�va�wa�tra�̀ i�li�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�weprav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�16.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�̂ e�-17

Page 18: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�VOv.br.�383/07.

8. Dra gan Cve ti no vi} iz Lo zni ceSve�dok�iz�no�si�po�dat�ke�da�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�Lo�zni�ci�u�ka�-

fa�ni�“GTA” sa�slu�{a�va�li�po�ten�ci�jal�ne�sve�do�ke.�U�je�sen,�ve�ro�vat�no�2002.�go�-di�ne,�sve�dok�je�oba�vio�raz�go�vor�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�jed�nom�de�-lu�ka�fa�ne.�Sa�slu�{a�wa�su�tra�ja�la�da�ni�ma,�a�sve�do�ko�vo�sa�slu�{a�we�je�tra�ja�lodu�̀ e�od�tri�sa�ta.�In�te�re�so�va�li�su�se�za�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�a�ka�da�ni�su�bi�liza�do�voq�ni�od�go�vo�ri�ma,�pre�ti�li�su�da�bi�i�on�mo�gao�bi�ti�op�tu�̀ en.�Pri�me�rakza�pi�sni�ka�je�pot�pi�sao,�ali�mu�ni�je�uru�~en�pri�me�rak.�Ceo�tok�sa�slu�{a�wa�jeimao�ka�rak�ter�pri�ti�ska:�ni�je�bi�lo�po�zi�va;�sa�slu�{a�we�u�ka�fa�ni�u�jed�nom�de�-lu,�dok�u�dru�gom�de�lu�~e�ka�na�red�de�set�oso�ba;�ne�zna�se�u�kom�svoj�stvu�se�vr�{isa�slu�{a�we;�pret�wa�da�sve�dok�mo�̀ e�bi�ti�uhap�{en�~im�pre�|e�gra�ni�cu;�upor�nopo�na�vqa�we�istih�pi�ta�wa;�ne�zna�ju�da�li�}e�pro�tiv�sve�do�ka�da�po�dig�nu�op�tu�-`ni�cu�po�{to�ne�zna�ju�{ta�su�re�kli�dru�gi�sve�do�ci;�po�nu�da�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�ne�ko�ga�ne�na�vo�de�}i�ko�bi�to�mo�gao�bi�ti;�po�ten�ci�ra�wemokol�no�sti�pod�ko�ji�ma�je�sve�dok�is�kqu�~en�iz�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke;�mno�-go�su�ge�stiv�nih�pa�i�pre�te�}ih�pi�ta�wa.�

Po�sle�raz�go�vo�ra,�kod�sve�do�ka�se�po�ja�~ao�strah,�a�na�ro�~i�to�ka�da�su�po�~e�leda�kru�̀ e�gla�si�ne�u�Lo�zni�ci�da�je�do�bio�ne�ke�auto�bu�se�u�za�me�nu�da�sve�do�~i�pro�-tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Gla�si�ne�su�mo�gle�da�se�po�kre�nu�sa�mo�od�is�tra�̀ i�te�qaTu�̀ i�la�{tva.

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�se�na�Zvor�nik.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra,�Cve�ti�no�-vi}�je�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�jiis�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�-ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�wem�za�zlo�~i�ne�akone�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�̂ e�-tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.br.�2293/07.

9. Bo ri slav Bo gu no vi} iz [i daSve�dok� je�imao�tri�raz�go�vo�ra�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�ko�je� je

oba�vio�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Ni�su�mu�pre�da�ti�pri�mer�ci�za�pi�sni�ka�ni�ti�iz�ja�va.�Od�po�-~et�ka�mu�je�po�nu�|en�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�pred�me�ti�ma�ko�-ji�se�od�no�se�na�Vu�ko�var.�Tre�}i�put�je�na�te�le�fon�ski�po�ziv�oti�{ao�na�raz�go�-vor�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Raz�go�vor�je�oba�vqen�8.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.go�di�ne�u�kan�ce�la�ri�ji�Tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Po�red�in�si�sti�ra�wa�da�sve�dok�po�-tvr�di�da�je�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�u�Vu�ko�va�ru�na�me�ga�fo�nu�go�vo�rio�da�sve�usta�{etre�ba�po�kla�ti,�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�mu�nu�di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nogsve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Sve�dok�tvr�di�da�̀ i�vi�u�stra�hu�da�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ne�na�me�-ste�i�ne�na�{ko�de,�jer�{i�ka�ni�ra�we�i�mal�tre�ti�ra�we,�ko�je�je�do`iveo�to�kom�tihne�pri�jat�nih�raz�go�vo�ra,�osta�vi�li�su�po�sle�di�ce�na�we�ga�i�we�go�vu�po�ro�di�cu.18

Page 19: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�Vu�ko�var�i�jed�nog�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�-ka� Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.� To�kom� raz�go�vo�ra,� Bo�gu�no�vi}� je� prav�nim� sa�vet�ni�ci�maprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�-vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qiTu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�wem�za�zlo�~i�ne,�uce�wi�va�li�ga�ako�ne�pri�-sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�nu�di�li�sta�tus�za�-{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka.

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu,�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

Ovaj�sve�dok�ta�ko�|e�po�tvr�|u�je�te�zu�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�da�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tvo�ni�je�ima�lo�do�ka�za�pro�tiv�we�ga�ni�pri�li�kom�po�di�za�wa�op�tu�̀ ni�ce.�Tu�-`i�la�{tvo�je�ovom�sve�do�ku�po�nu�di�lo�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�i�8.�fe�bru�a�-ra�2007.�go�di�ne,�ako�pri�sta�ne�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa,�a�ne�u�spe�li�po�ku�{aj�po�~et�ka�pre�tre�sa�je�bio�27.�no�vem�bra�2006.�go�-di�ne.�To�zna�~i�da�je�naj�ma�we�me�sec�da�na�pre�po�~et�ka�pre�tre�sa,�od�no�sno�jo{kra�jem�sep�tem�bra�2006.�go�di�ne�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�mo�ra�lo�da�do�sta�vi�ko�na~a�n�spi�-sak�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�da�ovog�sve�do�ka�uvr�sti�u�taj�spi�sak,�uko�li�ko�daopri�sta�nak.�Me�|u�tim,� in�si�sti�ra�we� is�tra�̀ i�te�qa� Tu�̀ i�la�{tva� u� fe�bru�a�ru2007.�go�di�ne�do�ka�zu�je�da�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�sve�sno�pred�u�ze�lo�ak�tiv�no�sti�pre�masvim�li�ci�ma�za�ko�je�je�pret�po�sta�vqa�lo�da�mo�gu�bi�ti�po�ten�ci�jal�ni�sve�do�ci�od�-bra�ne.�Sve�te�ak�tiv�no�sti�su�bi�le�u�funk�ci�ji�za�stra�{i�va�wa�i�pret�wi�pre�mapo�ten�ci�jal�nim�sve�do�ci�ma�i�ome�ta�wa�spro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de�pred�me�|u�na�rod�nimsu�dom,�ali�i�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�zlo�u�po�tre�bqa�va�po�stu�pak�i�sve�sno�kr�{i�pra�voprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�na�eks�pe�di�tiv�no�su�|e�we.

Ovo�su�sve�po�da�ci�ko�ji�do�ka�zu�ju�da�ovla�{}e�na�li�ca�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�pred�-me�tu�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�vr�{e�ka�̀ wi�ve�rad�we�ne�po�{to�va�-wa�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�i�na�taj�na�~in�ome�ta�ju�spro�vo�|e�we�prav�de�pred�me�|u�na�-rod�nim�su�dom.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�20.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�̂ e�-tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�VOv.br.�431/07.

10. An |el ko Tr ni ni} iz Lo zni ceU�pro�le�}e�2006.�go�di�ne�sve�do�ka�su�po�zva�li�te�le�fo�nom�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�-

`i�la�{tva.�Je�dan�se�pred�sta�vio�da�se�zo�ve�Yon�son.�To�kom�te�le�fon�skog�raz�go�-vo�ra�in�si�sti�ra�li�su�da�sve�dok�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�zado�ga�|a�je�u�Zvor�ni�ku�i�nu�di�li�mu�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Po�-{to�sve�dok�to�ni�je�pri�hva�tio,�pre�do�~e�no�mu�je�da�bi�se�mo�gla�sto�pi�ra�ti�op�tu�-`ni�ca�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne�pro�tiv�wega�u�za�me�nu�da�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tivVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�da�po�tvr�di�da�je�on�iz�da�vao�na�re�|e�wa�za�ono�{to�se�de�-si�lo�u�Zvor�ni�ku.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�Zvor�nik.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra�Tr�ni�ni}je�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�-kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke

19

Page 20: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�wem�za�zlo�~i�ne,�uce�wi�-va�li�ga�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�nu�-di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�21.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�No�vom�Sa�du�pod�OV1.br.�7350/2007.

11. Mi ro slav Vu ko vi} iz ^a~ kaSa�ovim�sve�do�kom�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�pr�vi�put�ra�zgo�va�ra�li�22.

no�vem�bra�2002.�go�di�ne.�Taj�raz�go�vor�je�bio�u�kan�ce�la�ri�ji�sve�do�ka�u�Be�o�gra�duuz�pri�su�stvo�sve�do�ko�vog�advo�ka�ta,�no�vi�na�ra�i�sni�ma�te�qa.�Is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�subi�li�Fil�To�lef�sen�iz�Nor�ve�{ke�i�Kan�iz�Pa�ki�sta�na.�Od�sve�do�ka�su�tra�̀ i�-li�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,�[e�{e�qa,�Ka�rayi}a�i�Mla�di�}a,�po�nu�di�-li�su�mu�blan�ko�~ek�i�re�kli�da�sam�upi�{e�iz�nos�ko�ji�ho�}e�kao�na�gra�du�za�ovasve�do�~e�wa,�a�da�}e�oni�od�mah�da�upla�te�no�vac.�To�lef�sen�je�pre�tio�sve�do�ku�daako�ne�pri�sta�ne�na�wi�ho�vu�po�nu�du�da�}e�bi�ti�optu`en�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne�i�pre�-ba�~en�u�Hag.

Dru�gi�su�sret�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sve�dok�je�imao�u�ma�ju�2005.go�di�ne,�a�za�pet�me�se�ci,�ko�li�ko�je�iz�be�ga�vao�su�sret,�osla�bio�je�50�ki�lo�gra�ma�ipri�pre�mio�po�ro�di�cu�da�ka�da�dru�gi�put�ode�na�raz�go�vor�da�se�ne�iz�ne�na�de�ako~u�ju�da�su�ga�uhap�si�li,�jer�se�o~i�gled�no�spre�ma�ju�da�is�pu�ne�pret�wu.

Dru�gi�raz�go�vor�je�tra�jao�tri�da�na,�a�sve�dok�je�po�veo�svog�advo�ka�ta�Sve�tuPa�vlo�vi�}a,�ko�ga�ni�su�hte�li�da�pri�hva�te,�ali�su�za�to�stal�no�nu�di�li�svo�je�advo�-ka�te.�Od�sve�do�ka�su�tra�̀ i�li�da�op�tu�̀ i�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�ni�ka�ko�ni�su�mo�-gli�da�shva�te�ka�ko�ne�pri�hva�ta�po�nu�du,�a�u�sva�|i�je�sa�Vo�ji�sla�vom�[e�{e�qem.Kao�sred�stvo�pri�ti�ska�ko�ri�sti�li�su�i�sni�mak�ne�kog�te�le�fon�skog�raz�go�vo�raiz�ja�nu�a�ra�1992.�go�di�ne�iz�me�|u�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�sve�do�ka,�ko�ji�je�ta�da�biou�bol�ni�ci�u�Som�bo�ru.�Iz�do�ku�men�ta�ci�je,�ko�ja�se�na�la�zi�la�na�sto�lu,�sve�dok�jeza�kqu�~io�da�Tri�bu�nal�u�Be�o�gra�du�ima�svo�ju�pri�tvor�sku�je�di�ni�cu�gde�mo�̀ eosum�wi�~e�nog�da�za�dr�̀ i�u�pri�tvo�ru�do�de�ve�deset�da�na.�Zbog�stra�ha,�sve�dok�ni�-je�pri�stao�da�pre�no�}i,�ve}�je�na�spa�va�we�od�la�zio�ku�}i�i�uju�tro�se�vra�}ao�da�bise�na�sta�vi�lo�sa�slu�{a�we.�Zbog�ne�po�ve�re�wa�pre�ma�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�i�stra�ha�za�svoj�`i�vot,�sve�dok�je�sve�sni�mao,�a�i�da�nas�se�pla�{i�da�ga�is�-tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ne�uhap�se,�od�ve�du�u�Hag�ili�is�po�ru�~e�ne�koj�dru�goj�ze�-mqi.�Sve�ne�pri�jat�no�sti�i�oprav�da�ni�strah�su�po�~e�li�onog�mo�men�ta�ka�da�ni�jepri�stao�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i�kao�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�jed�nog�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka.�To�komraz�go�vo�ra�Vu�ko�vi}�je�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�-neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�-wem�za�zlo�~i�ne,�po�ku�{a�li�da�ga�pot�ku�pe,�uce�wi�va�li�ga�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�-do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�nu�di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�-ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�20

Page 21: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�20.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.�1905/07.

12. Sre} ko Ra do va no vi} iz Kra gu jev caSve�dok�je�pr�vi�put�raz�go�va�rao�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ja�nu�a�ra

2003.�go�di�ne.�Raz�go�vor�je�vo�|en�u�Be�o�gra�du�i�tra�jao�je�ne�ko�li�ko�da�na�sa�pre�ki�-di�ma.�Sve�do�ku�su�po�nu�di�li�da�od�u�sta�nu�od�we�go�vog�kri�vi~�nog�go�we�wa�po�osno�-vu�ko�mand�ne�od�go�vor�no�sti,�ako�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Sta�ni�{i�}a,�Si�-ma�to�vi�}a�i�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Raz�go�vor�je�sni�man�vi�deo-ka�me�rom�do�onogtre�nut�ka�ka�da�su�pre�{li�na�kon�kret�ne�po�nu�de�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.Ma�da�su�mu�obe�}a�li�vi�deo�i�audio�sni�mak�raz�go�vo�ra�ni�ka�da�sve�do�ku�ni�su�da�-li�ni�snim�ke�ni�ti�za�pi�snik.�

Po�sled�wi�raz�go�vor�je�imao�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�2003.�go�di�neu�Kra�gu�jev�cu�u�ka�fi�}u�“Tajm”i�ta�da�su�mu�nu�di�li�nov�~a�nu�na�kna�du�za�sve�do�~e�-we�pro�tiv�na�ve�de�nih�li�ca.�Po�{to�sve�dok�ni�je�pri�hva�tio�po�nu�du�upla�{en�zasvoj�̀ i�vot,�ne�ko�vre�me�je�na�pu�stio�Kra�gu�je�vac,�skri�va�ju�}i�se�od�is�tra�̀ i�te�qaTu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�su�po�ka�za�li�upor�nost,�a�s�ob�zi�rom�da�je�sve�dok�od�bio�da�la�-`no�sve�do�~i�od�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�je�mo�gao�da�o~e�ku�je�sva�{ta.�Is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�su�bi�li�do�bro�upo�zna�ti�da�sve�dok�ni�je�u�do�brim�od�no�si�ma�sa�Vo�ji�-sla�vom�[e�{e�qem�i�u�to�me�su�vi�de�li�mo�gu}�nost�da�ga�na�te�ra�ju�da�la�̀ no�sve�-do�~i�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Sve�dok�je�9.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�po�no�vo�oba�vio�raz�go�vor�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�Be�o�gra�du,�ko�ji�su�se�pred�sta�vi�li�da�su�iza�sla�ni�ci�Kar�ledel�Pon�te.�Raz�go�vor�je�tra�jao�~e�ti�ri�sa�ta�i�tri�de�set�pet�mi�nu�ta�i�bio�je�za�-sno�van�na�otvo�re�nim�pret�wa�ma�i�uce�na�ma.�Tvr�di�li�su�da�je�je�di�ni�na�~in�dasve�dok�bu�de�oslo�bo�|en�od�go�vor�no�sti�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne�ako�pot�pu�no�i�bez�u�-slov�no�sa�ra�|u�je�sa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvom�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Pre�ti�li�su�i�dao�ovo�me�sve�dok�ne�sme�ni�sa�kim�da�pri�~a.

Sve�do�ku�su�nu�di�li�azil�i�ma�te�ri�jal�nu�po�dr�{ku�za�we�ga�i�po�ro�di�cu�sa�moda�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�iz�vi�wa�va�li�se�za�tre�nut�-ne�fi�nan�sij�ske�pro�ble�me�Tri�bu�na�la,�po�{to�Uje�di�we�ne�na�ci�je�ka�sne�sa�is�pla�-tom�sred�sta�va�Tri�bu�na�lu.�Ovi�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�iz�ri�~i�to�uti�ca�-li�na�sve�do�ka�da�ne�pri�hva�ti�raz�go�vor�sa�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�prof.�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�po�seb�no�su�se�za�ni�ma�li�da�li�}e�sve�dok�da�pri�sta�ne�da�bu�-de�sve�dok�od�bra�ne.

Ovaj�sve�dok�je�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�do�sta�vio�svo�ju�iz�ja�vu�ko�ja�prak�ti~�nodo�ka�zu�je�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ni�u�fe�bru�a�ru�2007.�go�di�ne�ni�je�sprem�no�za�po�~e�taksu�|e�wa,�jer�ima�pro�ble�ma�sa�obez�be�|e�wem�sve�do�ka�ko�ji�bi�bi�li�sprem�ni�da�la�-`no�sve�do�~e�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�To�zna�~i�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�ma�ni�{ta�~i�me�bi�iz�dej�stvo�va�lo�osu�du,�a�po�sta�vqa�se�pi�ta�we�da�li�je�uop�-{te�bi�lo�mo�gu�}e�i�da�se�po�dig�ne�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�na�osno�vu�ono�ga�{to�je�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tvo�ima�lo�ja�nu�a�ra�2003.�go�di�ne,�te�da�~e�ti�ri�go�di�ne�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�kon�stant�-no�i�kon�ti�nu�i�ra�no�op�stru�i�ra�spro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.

21

Page 22: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�se�pri�pre�ma�li�da�iz�-vr�{e�pro�ve�ru�ma�te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�jed�nog�za�{ti�}e�nogsve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra�Ra�do�va�no�vi}�je�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�maprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�-vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�wem�za�zlo�~i�ne,�da�su�po�ku�{a�li�da�ga�pot�ku�pe,uce�wi�va�li�ga�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa�i�nu�di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�20.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.�1906/07.

13. Slo bo dan Ze ~e vi} iz Kra gu jev caOvaj�sve�dok�je�u�2003.�go�di�ni�imao�dva�te�le�fon�ska�raz�go�vo�ra�sa�is�tra�̀ i�-

te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�ko�ji�ma�su�mu�otvo�re�no�nu�di�li�ma�te�ri�jal�nu�na�kna�dupod�uslo�vom�da�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�U�pr�vom�te�-le�fon�skom�raz�go�vo�ru�sve�dok�je�ka�te�go�ri~�ki�od�bio�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Za�to�je�dru�gi�te�le�fon�ski�po�ziv�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sve�dok�shva�tio�kao�po�ku�{aj�pot�ku�pqi�va�wa�i�svo�je�vr�snu�zlo�-u�po�tre�bu�po�da�ta�ka�ko�je�o�we�mu�ima�ju.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.� To�kom� raz�go�vo�ra,� Ze�~e�vi}� je� prav�nim� sa�vet�ni�ci�maprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�-vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�dat�ke�da�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tva�po�ku�{a�li�da�ga�pot�ku�pe,�ka�ko�bi�pri�stao�da�bu�de�sve�dok�pro�tiv�prof.dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu,�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�22.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.�2048/07.

14. Slav ko Alek si} iz Bi le }e Sve�dok�je�u�Bi�le�}i�ja�nu�a�ra�2003.�go�di�ne�oba�vio�raz�go�vor�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�-

qem�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�Janom�Van�Hec�keom.�Is�tra�̀ i�teq�se�pred�sta�vio�da�ra�di�uTu�̀ i�la�{tvu�i�da�mu�je�{ef�Kar�la�Del�Pon�te,�ina�~e�je�~o�vek�od�po�ve�re�wa�po�-{to�je�pre�u�zeo�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a�i�dru�ge�i�da�ih�je�li~�no�spro�veo�u�Hag.�

Sve�do�ku�je�nu�dio�na�god�bu,�odo�sno�da�sve�dok�od�le�̀ i�de�set�do�pet�na�est�go�-di�na�gde�`e�li,�te�da�ta�ko�kri�vi~�no�od�go�va�ra�za�op�tu�̀ be�ko�je�po�sto�je�pro�tivsve�do�ka�ve�za�ne�za�Sa�ra�je�vo,�ili�da�do�bi�je�no�vac�ili�no�vi�iden�ti�tet,�a�zauz�vratda�pot�pi�{e�pa�pir�da�}e�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�(ta�da�ni�je�jo{ni�bi�la�po�dig�nu�ta�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa),�Mom�~i�la�Kra�ji�-{ni�ka,�Ga�li�}a�i�ta�ko�da�qe.

Sve�do�ka�je�is�tra�̀ i�teq�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�po�seb�no�za�stra�{i�vao�pi�ta�wem�da22

Page 23: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

li�se�pla�{i�ako�do�|u�da�ga�hap�se.�Sve�do�ka�su�po�ku�{a�li�pret�hod�no�dva�pu�ta�dauhap�se�16.�ju�na�1996.�go�di�ne�i�10.�jula�1997.�go�di�ne.�Tvr�di�li�su�da�je�sve�dok�odiz�u�zet�nog�zna�~a�ja�za�wih�kao�krun�ski�sve�dok,�ali�i�da�je�od�ne�pro�ce�wi�ve�vred�-no�sti�kao�osum�wi�~e�ni.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�se�od�no�si�na�Sa�ra�je�vo.�To�kom�raz�go�vo�ra,�Alek�-si}�je�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�-ji�is�kqu�~u�ju�bi�lo�ka�kvu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�i�po�-dat�ke�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�op�tu�̀ i�va�wem�za�zlo�~i�-ne,�da�su�po�ku�{a�li�da�ga�pot�ku�pe,�uce�wi�va�li�ga�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~ipro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�nu�di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�kaTu�̀ i�la�{tva.�

U�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pre�tre�sa�u�pr�vom�de�lu�ka�da�se�iz�vo�de�do�ka�zi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ra�di�se�o�po�ten�ci�jal�nom�sve�do�ku�od�bra�ne�na�ko�ga�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvone�do�zvo�qe�no�uti�ca�lo�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�i�od�we�ga�pret�wa�ma�tra�̀ i�-lo�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i,�~i�me�se�ome�ta�pro�vo�|e�we�prav�de.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�uOsnov�nom�su�du�u�Tre�bi�wu�pod�095-O-OV- H-07-000044.

15. Vla di mir De a no vi} iz Pan ~e va Ovog�sve�do�ka�je�24.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�Jo�van�Gla�mo�~a�nin�oba�ve�stio�da�je

pod�pret�wa�ma�i�uce�na�ma�dva�pu�ta�raz�go�va�rao�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvai�da�su�zah�te�va�li�da�bu�de�sve�dok�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Gla�mo�~a�nin�jesve�do�ku�re�kao�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�da�}e�na�si�lu�da�gaod�ve�du�u�Hag,�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�nu�di�lisu�mu�mi�li�on�do�la�ra,�pro�me�nu�iden�ti�te�ta�i�pro�me�nu�pre�bi�va�li�{ta�u�ino�-stran�stvu�za�we�ga�i�po�ro�di�cu.�Gla�mo�~a�nin�je�sve�do�ku�re�kao�da�je�pod�pri�ti�-skom�pot�pi�sao�ne�ku�iz�ja�vu�na�en�gle�kom�je�zi�ku,�a�da�mu�ona�pret�hod�no�ni�je�pro�-~i�ta�na�na�srp�skom�je�zi�ku�i�da�je�ne�pri�zna�je�za�svo�ju.�Gla�mo�~a�nin�se�ozbiq�nopo�̀ a�lio�sve�do�ku�da�je�upla�{en,�da�se�bri�ne�za�svo�ju�si�gur�nost�i�sgur�nost�po�-ro�di�ce,�po�{to�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�da�mo�ra�bi�ti�sve�dokpro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Do�ovog�sve�do�ka�su�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�do�{li�ka�da�su�vr�{i�li�pro�ve�ru�ma�-te�ri�ja�la�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�De�a�no�vi}�je�po�tra�̀ io�prav�ne�sa�vet�ni�ke�prof.�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�iz�neo�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�se�od�no�se�na�raz�go�vor�ko�ji�je�imao�sa�Jo�-va�nom�Gla�mo�~a�ni�nom,�ko�ji�je�za�bri�nut�za�svo�ju�sud�bi�nu�i�sud�bi�nu�po�ro�di�ce,�daje�za�pla�{en�od�stra�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�s�ob�zi�rom�da�je�pod�pri�ti�-skom�i�uz�pret�we�ne�{to�pot�pi�sao,�a�da�i�sa�da�ne�zna�{ta�je�pot�pi�sao�i�da�Tu�-`i�la�{tvo�na�we�ga�ra�~u�na�da�}e�op�tu�̀ i�ti�i�sve�do�~i�ti�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa.�

Jo�van�Gla�mo�~a�nin�je�o~i�gled�ni�pri�mer�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ne�do�zvo�qe�nimsred�stvi�ma�do�la�zi�do�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa.�O~i�gled�no�je�da�je�u�ve�li�kom�i�ozbiq�nom�stra�hu�od�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�Jo�vanGla�mo�~a�nin�spas�pro�na�{ao�u�to�me,�da�o�sve�mu�to�me�{to�je�do�̀ i�veo�sa�is�tra�-`i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�oba�ve�sti�pri�ja�te�qe�i�{to�vi�{e�dru�gih�li�ca�ka�ko�bine�sa�mo�spre�~io�pri�ti�ske,�ne�go�i�svi�ma�una�pred�bi�lo�ja�sno,�ako�mu�se�ne�{tolo�{e�de�si,�da�je�to�u~i�ni�lo�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo.

23

Page 24: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Pan�~e�vu�pod�Ov.br.�2401/07.

16. @ar ko La ti no vi} iz Pan ~e vaOvo�je�sve�dok�ko�ji�je�ta�ko�|e�bio�pri�su�tan�u�re�sto�ra�nu�“Park” u�Pan�~e�vu

ka�da�se�we�mu�i�D�ea�no�vi�}u�̀ a�lio�Jo�van�Gla�mo�~a�nin�na�is�tra�̀ i�te�qe�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�ko�ji�su�ga�pri�nu�di�li,�pre�va�ri�li,�pre�ti�li�mu�i�uce�wi�va�li�ga�da�pot�pi�-{e�pa�pir�na�en�gle�skom�je�zi�ku�ko�jim�na�vod�no�pri�sta�je�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Ovaj�sve�dok�je�za�jed�no�sa�De�a�no�vi�}em�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�ma�prof.�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�dao�po�dat�ke�ko�ji�se�od�no�se�na�raz�go�vor�ko�ji�je�imao�sa�Jo�va�-nom�Gla�mo�~a�ni�nom,�ko�ji�je�za�bri�nut�za�svo�ju�sud�bi�nu�i�sud�bi�nu�po�ro�di�ce�i�za�-pla�{en�od�stra�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�s�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�je�pod�pri�ti�-skom�i�uz�pret�we�ne�{to�pot�pi�sao,�a�da�i�sa�da�ne�zna�{ta�je�pot�pi�sao�i�da�Tu�-`i�la�{tvo�na�we�ga�ra�~u�na�da�}e�op�tu�̀ i�ti�i�sve�do�~i�ti�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa.

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Pan�~e�vu�pod�Ov.br.�2400/07.

17. @i vo mir Avra mo vi} iz Kra gu jev caSve�dok�je�po�~et�kom�2003.�go�di�ne�bio�go�to�vo�pri�mo�ran�da�oba�vi�raz�go�vor

sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Osta�vi�li�su�mu�pi�sa�nu�po�ru�ku�na�vra�ti�masta�na�i�ti�me�do�ka�za�li�da�zna�ju�ne�sa�mo�adre�su,�ne�go�i�we�go�vo�kre�ta�we.�Po�slene�ko�li�ko�da�na�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�sa�sve�do�kom�oba�vi�li�raz�go�vor�uho�te�lu�“Kra�gu�je�vac” u�Kra�gu�jev�cu.�Od�sve�do�ka�su�tra�̀ i�li�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tivVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Ma�da�je�od�bio�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�is�-tra�̀ i�te�qi�su�mu�po�nu�di�li�za�{ti�tu�i�zah�te�va�li�da�do�|e�kod�wih�u�Be�o�grad�daga�sa�slu�{a�ju�i�ob�ra�de,�od�no�sno�pri�pre�me�da�bu�de�sve�dok�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa,�ali�na�rav�no�sve�dok�ka�kvog�oni�`e�le.�Pre�raz�go�vo�ra�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sve�dok�je�tra�̀ io�sa�vet�advo�ka�ta�Ta�to�mi�ra�Le�ko�vi�}a�za�ko�-ga�od�ra�ni�je�zna�da�bra�ni�ne�ke�qu�de�ko�ji�su�op�tu�̀ e�ni�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne.�Sve�-dok�je�bio�iz�ne�na�|en�ka�da�mu�je�advo�kat�re�kao�da�oba�ve�zno�ide�na�raz�go�vor�sais�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�jer�}e�u�pro�tiv�nom�sve�dok�bi�ti�oba�ve�zno�op�tu�-`en�za�jed�no�sa�Go�ra�nom�Si�mo�vi�}em�i�Zo�ra�nom�La�zo�vi�}em�zbog�ne�kog�zlo�~i�-na�u�Cr�kvi�na�ma.�To� je�kla�si�~an�pri�mer�po�sred�ne�pret�we,�ka�da�se�iz�ja�va�opret�wi�sa�zna�je�pre�ko�ne�kog�dru�gog�li�ca�ko�je�je�pre�no�si�u�ime�is�tra�̀ i�te�qaTu�̀ i�la�{tva.�To�do�ka�zu�je�da�su�se�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�pre�raz�go�vo�rasa�ovim�sve�do�kom,�do�bro�upo�zna�li�ka�kva�je�li~�nost�i�da�di�rekt�na�pret�wa�ne�-}e�da�ti�re�zul�ta�ta�i�za�to�su�is�ko�ri�sti�li�advo�ka�ta�kao�ne�ki�auto�ri�tet�ko�me�bisve�dok�mo�gao�da�po�ve�ru�je.�

Ovo�je�pri�mer�nu�|e�wa�mi�ta�u�kom�bi�na�ci�ji�sa�pret�wom�ko�ja�se�po�sred�nosa�zna�je,�a�ciq�je�da�se�obez�be�di�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�la�̀ no�sve�do�~io�pro�-tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�28.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�Op�-{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.br.�2469/07,�sa�pri�lo�gom�po�zi�va�is�tra�̀ i�-te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�ko�ji�je�pro�na�{ao�na�ula�znim�vra�ti�ma�sta�na�i�vi�zit-kar�-tom�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�To�ma�sa�Ak�haj�ma.

18. Jan ko La ki} iz Ma log Zvor ni ka24

Page 25: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Sve�dok�je�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�na�kon�broj�nih�te�le�fon�skihpo�zi�va,�oba�vio�dva�raz�go�vo�ra�4.�ok�to�bra�2003.�go�di�ne�u�Be�o�gra�du�i�29.�ok�to�bra2003.�go�di�ne�u�Zvor�ni�ku.�Od�sve�do�ka�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�tra�̀ i�li�dabu�de�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Zbog�tihkon�ta�ka�ta,�ko�je�je�do�̀ i�veo�kao�pret�wu,�sve�dok�je�tra�̀ io�azil�u�Fran�cu�skoj�iHo�lan�di�ji,�ali�s�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�ni�je�za�do�vo�qio�uslo�ve,�jer�ni�je�pri�hva�tioda�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i�po�sle�dva�me�se�ca�se�vra�tio�ku�}i�u�Ma�li�Zvor�nik.�Sve�kon�-tak�te�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sve�dok�je�do�̀ i�veo�kao�pret�wu�i�po�dmi�-}i�va�we,�a�da�bi�se�spa�sio�pri�ti�ska�i�mal�tre�ti�ra�wa�stal�nim�te�le�fon�skim�po�-zi�vi�ma�o�sve�mu�je�i�jav�no�pro�go�vo�rio,�{to�je�ob�ja�vqe�no�i�u�no�vi�na�ma.

O�to�me�je�sve�dok�dao�iz�ja�vu�ko�ja�je�2.�mar�ta�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�^e�tvr�-tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.br.�3023/07.

Pri�nu�da�je�uvek�ka�̀ wi�vo�de�lo�ko�je�je�upe�re�no�pro�tiv�li~�ne�slo�bo�de,�pro�-tiv�slo�bo�de�od�lu�~i�va�wa�i�pro�tiv�de�lo�va�wa�~o�ve�ka�sa�gla�sno�we�go�voj�vo�qi.Pri�nu�dom�se�~o�vek�pri�mo�ra�va�na�ne�{to�{to�ni�je�we�go�va�slo�bod�na�od�lu�ka.Sva�li�ca�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�su�`r�tve�pri�nu�de�ko�ju�su�pre�ma�wi�-ma�spro�vo�di�li�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pri�li�kom�obez�be�|e�wa�ka�ko�po�da�-ta�ka,�ta�ko�i�sve�do�ka�ko�ji�bi�mo�ra�li�la�̀ no�da�sve�do�~e�kao�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�

Pri�nu�da�po�~i�we�da�se�ostva�ru�je�ka�da�se�si�la�ili�ozbiq�na�pret�wa�za�po�-~i�we,�od�no�sno�ka�da�se�iz�ja�va�o�pret�wi�sa�zna,�a�za�vr�{a�va�se�ka�da�pod�pret�womna�stu�pa�wa�iz�ve�snog�zla�li�ce�po�~i�we�da�se�po�na�{a�i�pred�u�zi�ma�rad�wu�ko�ja�jeciq�pri�nu�de.�Pre�ma�pra�vi�lu�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka�do�voq�na�je�i�sa�ma�pret�wa,�ma�kari�u�po�ku�{a�ju,�i�u�to�me�se�raz�li�ku�je�od�sli~�nih�de�la�u�na�ci�o�nal�nim�za�ko�no�dav�-stvi�ma.�Na�i�me,�ciq�ka�̀ wa�va�wa�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�je�da�sesva�ko�li�ce,�ko�je�pre�ti�sve�do�ku�i�ta�ko�one�mo�gu�}a�va�spro�vo�|e�we�prav�de,�ka�znida�bi�se�o~u�va�la�slo�bod�na�vo�qa�i�od�lu�ka�po�ten�ci�jal�nog�sve�do�ka.�To�zna�~i�dase�pru�̀ a�za�{ti�ta�ra�di�spro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de�pred�me�|u�na�rod�nim�su�dom,�a�ne�dase�go�ni�po�od�red�ba�ma�na�ci�o�nal�nog�za�ko�no�dav�stva�za�pri�nu�du,�te�su�u�tom�smi�-slu�i�ma�wi�i�bla�̀ i�zah�te�vi�za�kri�vi~�nu�od�go�vor�nost�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�-na�rod�nog�su�da.�Oni�su�ma�wi�i�bla�̀ i�ka�ko�bi�svo�jom�{i�ri�nom�ga�ran�to�va�li{to�bo�qe�i�efi�ka�sni�je�ostva�ri�va�we�prav�de�pred�me�|u�na�rod�nim�su�dom�i�omo�-gu�}i�li�re�la�tiv�no�jed�no�stav�ni�je�go�we�we�svih�onih�ko�ji�ome�ta�ju�spro�vo�|e�weprav�de.�To�je�ve�ro�vat�no�i�o~e�ki�va�no�za�je�dan�sud�ko�ji�pre�ten�du�je�da�bu�de�me�|u�-na�rod�ni�i�ko�ji�na�vod�no�{ti�ti�qud�ska�pra�va.�

Pret�wa�je�iz�ja�va�ko�jom�se�na�ja�vqu�je,�od�no�sno�sta�vqa�u�iz�gled�da�}e�se�od�-re�|e�nom�li�cu�na�ne�ti�ne�ko�zlo�(na�pad�na�te�le�sni�in�te�gri�tet,�po�vre�da�ne�kogpra�va,�na�no�{e�we�ma�te�ri�jal�ne�{te�te�i�sl.).�Ako�se�iz�ja�vom�o�pret�wi�mo�̀ e�za�-kqu�~i�ti�ko�jim�se�zlom�pre�ti,�on�da�je�to�od�re�|e�na�pret�wa.�U�ovom�zah�te�vu�suna�ve�de�na�li�ca�ko�ji�ma�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�kon�kret�no�pre�ti�li,�ta�ko{to�im�je�zlo,�ko�je�se�na�ja�vqu�je,�od�re�|e�no:�hap�{e�we,�od�vo�|e�we�u�Hag,�po�di�za�-we�op�tu�̀ ni�ce,�za�tva�ra�we�u�pro�sto�ri�ju�sa�re�flek�to�ri�ma,�na�ja�vqi�va�we�du�go�-go�di�{we�ro�bi�je�i�sl.�

Iz�ja�va�o�pret�wi�mo�̀ e�bi�ti�da�ta�u�bi�lo�ko�joj�for�mi�(usme�no,�pi�sme�no,�po�-kre�tom�i�dru�gom�kon�klu�dent�nom�rad�wom).�Pre�ma�li�ci�ma�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�uovom�zah�te�vu,�pret�we�su�upu�}e�ne�pre�te�̀ no�usme�no,�ali�i�lu�pa�wem�u�sto�i�sta�-

25

Page 26: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

vqa�wem�na�sto�ma�te�ri�ja�la�i�do�ku�me�na�ta�ko�je�se�od�no�se�na�wi�ho�ve�op�tu�̀ beili�pa�pi�ra�sa�ovla�{}e�wem�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�da�mo�gu�do�90�da�na�ne�-ko�ga�da�dr�̀ e�u�pri�tvo�ru.�Sva�ka�ko�je�pret�wa�i�sa�slu�{a�we�u�ka�fi�}i�ma�i�ka�fa�-na�ma�ili�uz�mo�gu}�nost�da�vi�{e�li�ca�gle�da�ka�ko�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvauzi�ma�ju�iz�ja�ve.�Pret�wa�je�i�ka�da�se�li�ce�po�zi�va�na�na�~in�ko�ji�je�su�pro�tan�pra�-vi�li�ma�Pra�vil�ni�ka�i�za�ko�ni�ma�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je.�U�tom�smi�slu,�re�~i,�in�ter�-vju,�uzi�ma�we�iz�ja�ve,�raz�go�vor,�sa�slu�{a�we�i�sli~�no,�ka�da�je�usme�re�no�pre�ma�ne�-kom�li�cu,�a�ono�od�po�~et�ka�ne�zna�u�kom�svoj�stvu�je�po�zva�no,�ta�ko�|e�pred�sta�-vqa�pret�wu.�Osim�to�ga,�za�sve�rad�we�ko�je�pred�u�zi�ma�ju�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�pro�pi�sa�na�je�for�ma�ne�da�bi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�kon�tro�li�sa�lo�svo�je�is�tra�̀ i�-te�qe,�ve}�da�li�ca�ko�ja�do�la�ze�u�kon�takt�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ne�bu�-du�u�sta�wu�ne�iz�ve�sno�sti,�da�bi�se�spre�~i�lo�wi�ho�vo�mal�tre�ti�ra�we,�za�stra�{i�-va�we�i�sva�ka�vr�sta�pri�ti�sa�ka.

Iz�ja�vu�o�pret�wi�mo�ra�da�sa�zna�li�ce�ko�me�je�pret�wa�upu�}e�na�ne�po�sred�noili�pre�ko�ne�kog�dru�gog�li�ca.�Sva�li�ca�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�su�iz�ja�ve�opret�wi�li~�no�sa�zna�la,�a�dva�sve�do�ka�su�da�la�iz�ja�ve�da�im�se�jed�no�li�ce�`a�li�-lo�da�su�mu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li�i�na�taj�na�~in�po�ku�{a�lo�daoba�ve�sti�ve�}i�broj�li�ca�za�pla�{e�no�za�svoj�`i�vot,�na�ja�vqu�ju�}i�u�stra�hu�da�muse�zlo�mo�̀ e�de�si�ti�od�stra�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.

Sva�li�ca�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�su�pret�we�shva�ti�la,�raz�u�me�la�ido�̀ i�ve�la,�ta�ko�{to�im�je�pre�do�~a�vano�zlo�ko�je�}e�wih�ne�po�sred�no�da�po�go�di,od�no�sno�da�bu�du�pri�ve�de�na,�uhap�{e�na,�pri�tvo�re�na,�pro�tiv�wih�po�dig�nu�ta�op�-tu�̀ ni�ca�ili�dr�̀ a�na�u�ne�mo�gu�}im�uslo�vi�ma�ka�ko�bi�pri�sta�la�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�-~e�sa�mo�da�bi�se�oslo�bo�di�la�ne�iz�dr�̀ i�vog�pri�ti�ska.

Zlo�ko�jim�se�pre�ti�pred�sta�vqa�po�pra�vi�lu�ne�ku�pro�tiv�prav�nu�rad�wu,�a�tosu�sva�ka�ko�pre�do�~a�va�wa�da�}e�bi�ti�uhap�{e�ni,�pri�ve�de�ni,�op�tu�̀ e�ni�i�sl.�Pro�-tiv�prav�nost�po�ti�~e�od�to�ga�{to�su�to�kao�zlo�pre�do�~a�va�la�li�ca�ko�ja�ni�suovla�{}e�na�ni�da�hap�se,�ni�ti�da�pri�vo�de,�ni�ti�da�po�di�̀ u�op�tu�̀ ni�ce.�Pre�do�-~a�va�we�po�di�za�wa�op�tu�̀ ni�ce,�hap�{e�wa,�pri�vo�|e�wa�i�sl.�ne�mo�̀ e�da�pred�sta�-vqa�pu�no�prav�nu�rad�wu,�jer�i�te�rad�we�mo�gu�da�bu�du�pro�tiv�prav�ne,�kao�{to�jepro�ti�prav�no�hap�{e�we,�pro�tiv�prav�no�pri�vo�|e�we,�pa�i�pro�tiv�prav�no�po�di�za�-we�op�tu�̀ ni�ce.�Osim�to�ga,�sa�mom�~i�we�ni�com�da�su�iz�o�sta�le�rad�we�hap�{e�wa,pri�vo�|e�wa�i�po�di�za�wa�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tiv�li�ca�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�-vu,�sle�di�za�kqu�~ak�da�ka�da�su�pre�do�~a�va�ne�kao�zlo�u�okvi�ru�iz�ja�va�o�pret�wi�dasu�bi�le�pro�tiv�prav�ne.�To�se�ni�ka�ko�ne�mo�̀ e�kon�so�li�do�va�ti�~i�we�ni�com�da�neza�sta�re�va�ju�kri�vi~�na�de�la�rat�ni�zlo�~in,�ve}�se�wi�ho�va�pro�tiv�prav�nost�do�-dat�no�po�ja�~a�va�~i�we�ni�com�da�je�ciq�pret�we�obez�be�|e�we�la�̀ nih�sve�do�ka.�Akoko�jim�slu�~a�jem�pre�do�~a�va�no�zlo�u�iz�ja�vi�o�pret�wi�ni�je�bi�lo�pro�tiv�prav�no,on�da�je�sva�ka�ko�ciq�pret�we�bio�pro�tiv�pra�van,�obez�be�|e�we�sve�do�ka�ko�ji�bi�la�-`no�sve�do�~io�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.

Pret�wa�kao�ele�ment�pri�nu�de�je�uvek�usme�re�na�na�ostva�ri�va�we�ne�kog�ci�-qa.�U�iz�ja�va�ma�svih�li�ca,�ko�ja�se�na�vo�de�u�ovom�zah�te�vu,�na�la�zi�se�ne�do�zvo�qe�-ni�ciq�ko�ji�su�pret�wa�ma�hte�li�da�po�sti�gnu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Onisu�pre�ti�li�sve�do�ci�ma�i�od�wih�tra�̀ i�li�da�pri�sta�nu�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�ko�ji�}eda�la�̀ u�i�la�̀ i�ma�da�po�mog�nu�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvu�u�op�tu�̀ i�va�wu�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa.�Ov�de�mo�ra�da�se�is�tak�ne�da�su�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�na�ve�de�na�li�ca�ko�ja�bi26

Page 27: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

mo�gla�bi�ti�po�ten�ci�jal�ni�sve�do�ci�od�bra�ne,�u�za�vi�sno�sti�od�is�ho�da�pr�vog�de�lapre�tre�sa�ka�da�se�za�vr�{i�sa�iz�vo�|e�wem�do�ka�za�Tu�̀ i�la�tva,�te�da�pret�we�ne�tre�-ba�tu�ma�~i�ti�sa�mo�u�po�gle�du�po�ku�{a�ja�da�se�ova�li�ca�obez�be�de�da�bu�du�la�̀ nisve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�ve}�da�se�pret�wa�ma�na�wih�uti�ca�lo�i�kao�po�ten�ci�jal�nesve�do�ke�od�bra�ne.�U�svim�kon�tak�ti�ma�ko�je�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ima�-li�sa�li�ci�ma�ne�ve�de�nim�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�to�kom�ja�nu�a�ra�i�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�-ne,�oni�su�in�si�sti�ra�li�da�ta�li�ca�ne�raz�go�va�ra�ju� sa�prav�nim�sa�vet�ni�ci�maprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�su�se�in�te�re�so�va�li�i�o�to�me�{ta�bi�mo�glida�sve�do�~e�kao�po�ten�ci�jal�ni�sve�do�ci�od�bra�ne.�

Ov�de�mo�ra�da�se�is�tak�ne�da�prav�ni�sa�vet�ni�ci�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa�nijed�nog�tre�nut�ka�ni�su�ni�po�mi�sli�li�da�stu�pe�u�ko�na�takt�sa�sve�do�ci�ma�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ni�ti�su�po�ku�{a�li�da�pra�ve�{i�ro�ku�mre�̀ u�ko�mu�ni�ka�ci�ja�i�kon�ta�-ka�ta�sa�li�ci�ma�ko�ja�bi�mo�gla�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�od�bra�ne,�te�da�na�taj�na�~in�sma�-we� pro�stor�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvu� ili� do�ve�du� u� pi�ta�we� mo�gu}�nost� Tu�̀ i�la�{tva� daobez�be�di�svo�je�sve�do�ke.�Za�to�je�i�pro�pi�sa�no�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�mo�ra�pret�hod�noda�obez�be�di�iz�ja�vu�li�ca�ko�je�pri�sta�je�da�bu�de�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�kao�pot�pu�-no�slo�bod�nu�od�lu�ku�tog�li�ca.�

Za�to�se�ovim�zah�te�vom�i�ne�ospo�ra�va�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvu�pra�vo�da�obez�be�|u�jesve�do�ke�i�da�ra�di�to�ga�kon�tak�ti�ra�sa�ve�li�kim�bro�jem�li�ca,�me�|u�tim�ti�kon�-tak�ti,�raz�go�vo�ri,�sa�slu�{a�wa,�uzi�ma�we�iz�ja�va�i�uop�{te�rad�we�ne�mo�gu�bi�tipret�we,�za�stra�{i�va�we�i�nu�|e�we�mi�ta�i�sli~�no�ko�je�ima�za�ciq�obez�be�|e�wesve�do�ka�ko�ji�bi�pri�sta�li�da�la�̀ u�i�na�taj�na�~in�ome�ta�li�spro�vo�|e�we�prav�depred�me�|u�na�rod�nim�su�dom.�

Ve�ro�vat�no�ni�je�po�treb�no�tro�{i�ti�re�~i�da�su�iz�ja�ve�o�pret�wa�ma�is�tra�̀ i�-te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�bi�le�ozbiq�ne.�Ozbiq�ne�su�one�pret�we�ko�je�se�mo�gu�ostva�-ri�ti,�a�sve�{to�do�la�zi�od�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�je�ozbiq�no�ka�da�se�ima�uvi�du�da�su�bi�li�spo�sob�ni�da�kid�na�pu�ju�li�ca�u�Sr�bi�ji�i�ospo�so�bqe�ni�da�ura�de{ta�im�je�vo�qa,�jer�u�Sr�bi�ji�ni�ko�ne�mo�̀ e�da�ih�za�u�sta�vi,�po�{to�im�je�i�do�sov�-ska�vlast�u�Sr�bi�ji�mak�si�mal�no�oda�na.

Zlo�ko�je�se�li�ci�ma�na�ve�de�nim�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�sta�vqa�lo�kao�sa�svim�iz�gled�-na�per�spek�ti�va,�ako�ne�pri�sta�nu�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�prof.dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�sa�svim�je�po�dob�no�za�pri�nu�du,�jer�je�ostvar�qi�vo.�Svi�-ma�je�o~i�gled�no�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ras�po�la�̀ e�to�li�kom�pro�iz�voq�no�{}u�da�sva�-ko�ga�mo�̀ e�da�op�tu�̀ i,�pri�ve�de,�uhap�si,�pa�i�vlast�u�Sr�bi�ji�mo�̀ e�da�na�te�ra�napro�tiv�prav�na�de�la�za�ra�~un�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Po�red�ne�po�sred�ne�pri�nu�de�ko�joj�suli�ca�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�bi�la�iz�lo�̀ e�na�od�stra�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�ne�sme�da�se�iz�gu�bi�iz�vi�da�i�ona�po�sred�na�pri�nu�da�ko�ja�je�usme�re�na�nesa�mo�pre�ma�li�ci�ma�na�ve�de�nim�u�ovom�zah�te�vu,�ne�go�i�pre�ma�svim�gra�|a�ni�ma�uSr�bi�ji.�Ona�se�sa�sto�ji�u�pret�wa�ma�da�Sr�bi�ja�ne�mo�̀ e�u�evro�in�te�gra�ci�je,�me�-dij�skom�lin�~u�pro�tiv�sva�kog�ko�se�su�prot�sta�vi�ne�za�ko�ni�tom�ra�du�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�do�na�lo�ga�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�o�oba�ve�znoj�i�bez�u�slov�noj�sa�rad�wiSr�bi�je�sa�Tri�bu�na�lom.�Sve�to�ome�ta�spro�vo�|e�we�prav�de�u�me�|u�na�rod�nom�su�-du,�a�to�ga�su�du�bo�ko�sve�sni�i�su�di�je�MKSJ.�

Ve�ro�vat�no� naj�te�̀ u� osu�du� za�slu�̀ u�ju� naj�od�go�vor�ni�ji� u� Tu�̀ i�la�{tvu� zapret�we�ko�je�u�wi�ho�vo�ime�vr�{e�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�a�ko�je�su�u~i�ni�lipre�ma�li�ci�ma�na�ve�de�nim�u�ovom�zah�te�vu,�za�to�{to�su�od�na�ve�de�nih�li�ca�tra�-

27

Page 28: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

`i�li�da�iz�vr�{e�kri�vi~�na�de�la�la�̀ nog�sve�do�~e�wa,�pa�jo{�pred�su�dom�ko�ji�tvr�-di�da�je�na�vod�no�me�|u�na�rod�ni�sud.�Do�du�{e,�me�|u�li�ci�ma�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�uovom�zah�te�vu�na�la�ze�se�i�oni�ko�ji,�na�osno�vu�psi�hi~�kih�smet�wi�ko�je�su�ima�lida�ni�ma�po�sle�vi�{e�dnev�nih�raz�go�vo�ra�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�sma�-tra�ju�da�su�bi�li�otro�va�ni�ili�dro�gi�ra�ni,�te�ima�me�sta�za�kqu~�ku�da�je�ko�ri�-{}e�na�i�fi�zi~�ka�si�la,�osim�pret�we.�

Me�|u�li�ci�ma�na�ve�de�nim�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�na�la�ze�se�i�ona�ko�ji�ma�je�pre�}e�-no�ubi�stvom,�{to�pred�sta�vqa�po�seb�no�kva�li�fi�ko�va�ni�ob�lik�pret�we,�za�timrad�we�ne�po�{to�va�wa�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�i�naj�o�zbiq�ni�ji�ob�lik�ome�ta�wa�spro�-vo�|e�wa�prav�de.�

S�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�su�li�ci�ma�na�ve�de�nim�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�pre�ti�li�is�tra�-`i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�zna�~i�prav�no�kva�li�fi�ko�va�ne�oso�be,�pret�we�su�bi�lesve�sne�i�na�mer�ne�rad�we�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Da�kle,�u�pi�ta�wu�je�di�-rekt�ni�umi�{qaj.�S�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�se�ra�di�o�ve�li�kom�bro�ju�li�ca�ko�ji�ma�jepre�}e�no�pro�iz��la�zi�da�je�u�pi�ta�wu�pro�sto�si�stem�i�stil�ra�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Kao{to�mo�̀ e�da�se�pri�me�ti�li�ci�ma�na�ve�de�nim�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�su�nu�di�li:�pri�ja�teq�stvo�pro�tiv�istog�ne�pri�ja�te�qa�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�-sla�va�[e�{e�qa;�za�jed�ni~�ki�iz�la�sci�i�pro�vod;�nu�|e�we�Flo�rans�Art�man�kao�iz�-u�zet�no�le�pe�i�pri�jat�ne�oso�be,�ko�ja�je,�u�kraj�woj�in�stan�ci,�spo�sob�na�da�za�vr�{iono�{to�po�li�cij�skim�me�to�da�ma�ne�mo�gu�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�

U�iz�ja�va�ma�li�ca�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�na�la�ze�se�tvrd�we�da�im�jenu�|en�mi�to,�od�no�sno�da�su�im�nu�|e�ne�raz�ne�po�god�no�sti�pod�uslo�vom�da�pri�sta�-nu�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Do�du�-{e,�ima�i�do�sta�pri�me�ra�kom�bi�na�ci�je�pret�wi,�za�stra�{i�va�wa�i�nu�|e�wa�mi�tai�to�pre�ma�li�ci�ma�ko�ja�su�ja�sno�sta�vi�la�do�zna�wa,�pa�~ak�i�vi�{e�pu�ta�po�na�vqa�-li�da�ne�pri�sta�ju�i�da�ne�`e�le�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pro�tiv�prof.�drVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�od�ko�jih�se�tra�̀ i�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e.�Da�kle,�u�pi�ta�wu�surad�we�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�je�su�usme�re�ne�pro�tiv�slu�̀ be�ne�du�̀ no�-sti,�jer�su�pred�u�ze�to�su�prot�no�pra�vi�li�ma�Pra�vil�ni�ka�sa�ci�qem�da�se�po�stig�-ne�svo�je�vr�sna�na�god�ba,�od�no�sno�ne�za�ko�ni�ti�prav�ni�po�sao.�Nu�di�se�sta�tus�za�-{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�li�ci�ma�ko�ja�to�i�ne�tra�̀ e,�ve}�ih�u�sta�tus�li�ca�ko�me�je�na�-vod�no�po�treb�na�ne�ka�vr�sta�za�{ti�te�kao�sve�do�ka�gu�ra�ju�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva.�Da�kle,�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�sve�sno�i�na�mer�no�li�ca�na�ve�de�na�uovom�zah�te�vu�pri�mo�ra�va�ju�da�pri�sta�nu�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�a�kao�kom�pen�za�ci�ju�i�sa�tis�fak�ci�ju�im�nu�de�po�god�no�sti�ko�jeod�go�va�ra�ju�sta�tu�su�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka.�Na�taj�na�~in�se�de�za�vu�i�{e�sam�in�sti�-tut�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�pred�MKSJ.�Ve�ro�vat�no�je�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�kapred�vi�|en�da�bi�se�za�{ti�tio�sve�dok�ko�ji�zbog�isti�ni�tog�sve�do�~e�wa�mo�̀ da�mo�-`e�da�ima�ne�kih�ne�pri�jat�no�sti.�Me�|u�tim,�na�osno�vu�iz�ja�va�li�ca�ko�ja�su�na�ve�-de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�za�kqu�~u�je�se�da�se�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�nu�di�kao�ga�-ran�ci�ja�i�za�{ti�ta�za�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e�we�po�na�lo�gu�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Nad�tim�ni�kou�MKSJ�ne�bi�smeo�da�za�tva�ra�o~i,�jer�to�kom�pro�mi�tu�je�rad�MKSJ�i�do�vo�di�upi�ta�we�da�li�je�mo�gu�}e�spro�ve�sti�prav�du�pred�MKSJ,�ako�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ova�kospro�vo�di�prav�du.�

Li�ci�ma�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�kaopo�se�ban�ob�lik�mi�ta�je�po�pra�vi�lu�nu�|en�u�kom�bi�na�ci�ji�sa�pret�wa�ma�i�za�stra�-28

Page 29: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

{i�va�wem�da�se�i�pro�tiv�ovih�li�ca�mo�̀ e�po�di�}i�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pred�MKSJ.�Da�-kle,�u�pi�ta�wu�su�li�ca�ko�ji�ma�je�ja�sno�pre�do�~e�no�da�uko�li�ko�ne�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�vr�lo�la�ko�mo�gu�bi�ti�li�ca�ko�ja�}e�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�da�op�tu�̀ i�predMKSJ.�Na�rav�no,�ove�pret�we,�za�stra�{i�va�wa�i�nu�|e�wa�mi�ta�pu�tem�azi�la,�nov�-ca,� pre�se�qe�wa� u� ino�stran�stvo,� iz�me�na� li~�nog� iz�gle�da,� za�{ti�te� od� stra�neMKSJ�i�ga�ran�to�va�wem�sta�tu�sa�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�pod�uslo�vom�da�pri�sta�juda�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�}e�la�̀ no�da�sve�do�~e�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�-sla�va�[e�{e�qa�do�bi�ja�ju�po�seb�nu�te�̀ i�nu�po�sle�ono�ga�{to�se�de�si�lo�sa�Mi�la�-nom�Ba�bi�}em.�

Pod�se�ti�mo�se�da�je�Mi�lan�Ba�bi}�iz�sta�tu�sa�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�pre�{aou�sta�tus�op�tu�̀ e�nog�ko�ji�je�osu�|en�i�ko�ji�je�pod�pret�wa�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�mo�raoda�pri�sta�ne�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i�u�ne�kim�pred�me�ti�ma�pred�MKSJ.�Pri�ti�ske�ipret�we�ni�je�mo�gao�da�iz�dr�̀ i,�pa�se�obe�sio�u�pri�tvor�skoj�je�di�ni�ci�u�[e�ve�nin�-ge�nu�mar�ta�2006.�go�di�ne,�ali�je�osta�vio�i�opro�{taj�no�pi�smo�u�ko�jem�je�opi�saoda�sve�te�pri�ti�ske�i�pret�we�vi�{e�ni�je�mo�gao�da�iz�dr�̀ i,�i�da�se�od�lu�~io�na�sa�-mo�u�bi�stvo.�Ma�ko�li�ko�da�je�MKSJ�po�ku�{ao�sve�ovo�da�de�man�tu�je,�a�zbog�to�gaje�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�tr�peo�{tet�ne�po�sle�di�ce�u�pri�tvo�ru,�i�da�qe�sto�-ji�svo�je�vr�sno�jav�no�sve�do�~e�we�~lanova�po�ro�di�ce�Mi�la�na�Ba�bi�}a,�ko�ji�ma�seMi�lan�Ba�bi}�`a�lio�da�ne�mo�̀ e�da�iz�dr�̀ i�pri�ti�ske�i�pret�we�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.

Do�du�{e,�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ni�ka�da�ni�je�ni�po�{to�va�lo�sud�ski�deo�MKSJ.�Sko�-ro�sva�ki�su�di�ja�MKSJ�mo�̀ e�li~�no�da�iz�ne�se�pri�me�re�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ne�po�-{tu�je�me�|u�na�rod�ni�sud.�Je�dan�pri�mer�je�upe�~a�tqiv�i�do�{ao�je�na�na�slov�nestra�ne�no�vi�ne.�U�pi�ta�wu�je�in�ter�vju�su�di�je�[om�bur�ga�za�austrij�sku�dr�̀ av�nuno�vin�sku�agen�ci�ju�APA,�~i�ji�su�de�lo�vi�ob�ja�vqe�ni�u�za�gre�ba~�kom�“Glo�bu�su”od�13.�ok�to�bra�2006.�go�di�ne.�

U�in�ter�vjuu�su�di�ja�[om�burg�iz�ja�vqu�je�da�je�ve�zi�va�we�evro�in�te�gra�cij�skihte�̀ wi�Sr�bi�je�s�Ha�{kim�tri�bu�na�lom�kon�tra�pro�duk�tiv�no.�Kon�tra�pro�duk�tiv�-no�je�ako�dr�̀ a�va�per�ci�pi�ra�da�je�ta�lac�jed�nog�ili�dvo�ji�ce�qu�di�ko�ji�su�na�li�-sti�tra�̀ e�nih,�a�ne�̀ e�le�iza�}i�pred�sud,�jer�su�po�je�din�ci,�a�ne�dr�̀ a�ve,�na�su�|e�-wu�pred�Tri�bu�na�lom.�Po�vo�dom�Kar�le�del�Pon�te�su�di�ja�[om�burg�je�iz�ja�vio�dane�za�vi�snost�pra�vo�su�|a�do�la�zi�u�pi�ta�we�ka�da�se�tu�̀ i�lac�slu�̀ i�po�li�ti~�kimpri�ti�sci�ma�ne�bi�li�ostva�rio� svoj�ciq.�To� je�po�sao� za�Uje�di�we�ne�na�ci�je,Evrop�sku�uni�ju�ili�sa�me�dr�̀ a�ve,�ali�to�ni�je�po�sao�za�tu�̀ i�o�ca.�

Do�du�{e,�u�in�ter�vjuu�ima�i�dru�gih�in�te�resntnih�sta�vo�va�su�di�je�[om�bur�-ga�po�~ev�od�to�ga:�da�ka�da�ste�kan�di�dat�za�su�di�ju�MKSJ�on�da�mo�ra�te�pu�to�va�ti�uWu�jork�i�ta�mo�mo�ra�te�lo�bi�ra�ti�sa�mi�za�se�be,�a�to�je�pri�li~�no�bi�zar�na�si�tu�-a�ci�ja�za�jed�nog�su�di�ju�iz�kon�ti�nen�tal�ne�Evro�pe;�mo�ram�re�}i�da�ni�ka�da�do�kra�-ja�ni�sam�shva�tio�za�{to�MKSJ�ima�ta�kvu�vr�sta�pra�va,�a�ne�tra�di�ci�o�nal�noevrop�sko�gra�|an�sko�pra�vo,�ka�da�se�na{�rad�od�no�si�na�pod�ru~�je�u�ko�me�se�prak�-ti�ku�je�kon�ti�nen�tal�no�pra�vo.�

Da�bi�se�shva�ti�lo�da�je�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�~ud�na�po�ja�va�u�MKSJ�mo�ra�seima�ti�u�vi�du�i�{ta�su�sve�me�di�ji�ob�ja�vi�li�po�vo�dom�we�nog�rad�nog�an�ga�̀ o�va�wapre�iz�bo�ra�za�tu�̀ i�o�ca.�Svo�je�vrem�no�je�Ko�fi�Anan,�ge�ne�ral�ni�se�kre�tar�Uje�-di�we�nih�na�ci�ja,�za�Kar�lu�del�Pon�te�iz�ja�vqi�vao:�“Prav�da�je�jed�na�`e�na”.�Me�-|u�tim,�u�Stra�zbu�ru�se�ma�lo�ba�ve�i�Kar�lom�del�Pon�te.�Wu�je�tu�̀ io�Fe�li�peTu�ro�ver�za�po�ku�{aj�ubi�stva.�On�je�bio�glav�ni�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ be�u�afe�ri�“Ma�-

29

Page 30: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

be�teks”.�Pet�sve�do�ka�iz�te�afe�re�su�~ud�no�ne�sta�li�i�opro�sti�li�se�od�`i�vo�ta.“Ma�be�teks” je�fir�ma�iz�[vaj�car�ske,�vla�sni�{tvo�Beyeta�Pa�co�li�ja,�ko�ji� jeusko�ve�zan�za�{ip�tar�ski�OVK.�Afe�ra�je�po�vo�dom�po�sla�te�fir�me�u�Ru�si�ji�ive�zu�je�se�za�Bo�ri�sa�Jeq�ci�na.�Uosta�lom,�Jeq�cin,�i�we�go�ve�}er�ke�su�od�Pa�co�li�-ja� kao� na�gra�du� do�bi�li� zlat�ne� ban�kov�ne� kar�ti�ce,� od�no�sno� otva�ra�we�ni�~imogra�ni�~e�nog�ban�kov�nog�ra�~u�na.�

Kar�la�del�Pon�te�je,�kao�glav�ni�dr�̀ av�ni�tu�̀ i�lac�[vaj�car�ske,�otvo�ri�lais�tra�gu�zbog�pra�wa�nov�ca,�ko�rup�ci�je�i�or�ga�ni�zo�va�nog�kri�mi�na�la.�Ona�obez�-be�|u�je�Fe�li�pe�Tu�ro�ve�ra�kao�in�saj�de�ra�uz�uslov�da�mu�se�iden�ti�tet�~u�va,�jerpri�stan�kom�da�po�mog�ne�is�tra�gu�sta�vqa�gla�vu�u�tor�bu�po�{to�su�u�pi�ta�wu�dvemi�li�jar�de�da�na�{wih�evra.�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�pri�sta�je,�od�Tu�no�ve�re�do�bi�ja�zna�-~aj�ne�po�dat�ke,�ali�i�ita�li�jan�skom�li�stu�“Ko�ri�je�re�de�la�se�ra” da�je�pu�no�imeTu�ro�ve�ra�i�we�go�vu�zva�ni~�nu�funk�ci�ju�u�ru�skoj�vla�sti�(to�po�tvr�|u�ju�obo�ji�cano�vi�na�ra,�auto�ra�~lan�ka�u�ovom�li�stu)�i�ta�da�po�~i�we�lov�na�krun�skog�sve�do�-ka.�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�je�ove�po�dat�ke�da�la�li�stu�ne�po�sred�no�na�kon�su�sre�ta�saMa�dlen�Ol�brajt�u�Lon�do�nu�na�aero�dro�mu�Hi�trou�u�ju�lu�1999.�go�di�ne,�a�ob�ja�-vqi�va�we�je�ima�lo�za�ciq�da�se�de�za�vu�i�{e�Bo�ris�Jeq�cin.�U�sep�tem�bru�1999.�go�-di�ne�i�Ma�dlen�Ol�brajt�je�u�in�te�vjuu�Si-En-Enu�go�vo�ri�la�o�ko�rup�ci�ju�u�ru�-skom�vr�hu.�Ta�ko�su�Ma�dlen�Ol�brajt�i�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�pro�da�le�srp�sko�Ko�so�-vo�i�Me�to�hi�ju�[ip�ta�ri�ma�za�dve�mi�li�jar�de�da�na�{wih�evra,�a�na�pred�log�SADKar�la�del�Pon�te�je�iza�bra�na�za�tu�̀ i�o�ca�u�MKSJ.�

Va�̀ no�je�da�je�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�za�u�sta�vi�la�da�qu�is�tra�gu�i�zlo�u�po�tre�bi�-la�po�dat�ke�ko�je�je�do�bi�la�od�jav�nog�tu�̀ i�o�ca�iz�Ru�si�je�Ju�ri�ja�Sku�ra�to�va,�ko�jiza�vr�{a�va�ju�na�sto�lu�Pa�co�li�ja.�Ru�ski�tu�̀ i�lac�se�sme�wu�je�i�u�Ru�si�ji�za�u�sta�vqais�tra�ga.�

Pro�tiv�Kar�le�del�Pon�te�se�ne�otva�ra�is�tra�ga�u�[vaj�car�skoj,�ali�za�to,�na�-kon�pri�ja�ve�pro�tiv�Kar�li�nog�na�sled�ni�ka�Va�len�ti�na�Ro�{a�he�ra�zbog�po�ma�ga�-wa�u�za�ta�{ka�va�wu�kri�vi~�nog�de�la,�otva�ra�se�is�tra�̀ ni�po�stu�pak,�ali�i�{vaj�-car�ski�par�la�ment�ime�nu�je�spe�ci�jal�nog�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Ar�tu�ra�Hu�blar�da�ko�jipa�ra�lel�no�po�ku�{a�va�da�do�|e�do�isti�ne�o�pr�qa�vom�nov�cu�i�pr�qa�vim�po�li�ti~�-kim�i�eko�nom�skim�in�te�re�si�ma.

Pro�sto�je�ne�ve�ro�vat�no�da�MKSJ�ne�zna�da�se�pro�tiv�Kar�le�del�Pon�te�vo�-di�is�tra�ga�pred�naj�vi�{im�pra�vo�sud�nim�or�ga�ni�ma�ko�ju�je�ini�ci�ra�la�{vaj�car�-ska�vla�da,�kao�i�da�je�naj�ve�}e�za�pre�pa�{}e�we�we�nim�iz�bo�rom�bi�lo�ba{�u�[vaj�-car�skoj.�Sve�ovo�do�dat�no�pot�kre�pqu�je�na�vo�de�iz�ovog�zah�te�va,�jer�do�ka�zu�je�daje�Kar�la�del�Pon�te�odav�no�sklo�na�ome�ta�wu�spro�vo�|e�wa�prav�de�pred�naj�vi�-{im�pra�vo�sud�nim�or�ga�ni�ma.

Po�la�ze�}i�od�in�he�rent�nih�ovla�{}e�wa,�MKSJ�mo�̀ e�da�pro�gla�si�kri�vimi�da�ka�zni�sva�ko�li�ce�ko�ja�sve�sno�i�na�mer�no�ome�ta�spro�vo�|e�we�prav�de�predMKSJ.�U�ovom�zah�te�vu�su�na�ve�da�na�li�ca�pre�ma�ko�ji�ma�su�vr�{e�ne�rad�we�pret�-wi,�za�stra�{i�va�wa�i�nu�|e�wa�mi�ta�da�bi�oni�pri�sta�li�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tva�ko�ji�}e�la�̀ no�da�sve�do�~e�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Ov�dese�po�red�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�ji�su�ne�po�sred�no�vr�{i�li�rad�we�ne�po�-{to�va�wa�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�kao�or�ga�ni�za�to�ri,�na�lo�go�dav�ci,�pod�stre�ka�~i�i~u�va�ri�ta�kvog�sti�la�ra�da�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�ja�vqa�ju�naj�od�go�vor�ni�ja�li�ca�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva:�Kar�la�del�Pon�te,�Hil�de�gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�nij�el�Sak�son.�Uslov30

Page 31: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

“sva�ko�li�ce”�iz�pra�vi�la�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka�pro�sti�re�se�i�na�slu�̀ be�na�li�ca�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�jer�i�oni�mo�gu�da�spre�~a�va�ju�ostva�ri�va�we�prav�de�i�sa�mim�tim�davr�{e�rad�wu�ne�po�{to�va�wa�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.�Wi�ho�vo�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�-rod�nog�su�da� je�sva�ka�ko�naj�kva�li�fi�ko�va�ni�ji�ob�lik�ovog�ka�̀ wi�vog�de�la,� jerosim�to�ga�{to�po�ga�|a�MKSJ,�jo{�te�̀ e�po�ga�|a�op�tu�̀ e�nog�ko�ji�i�ne�zna�za�{toje�pet�go�di�na�u�pri�tvo�ru.�U�tom�de�lu�bi�ve�ro�vat�no�bi�lo�vi�{e�raz�lo�ga�da�seprof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�po�zo�ve�i�na�po�tre�bu�pri�me�ne�dok�tri�ne�zlo�u�po�tre�-be�po�stup�ka,�po�vo�dom�rad�wi�ko�je�u�ovom�pred�me�tu�vr�{i�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo.

Bi�lo�bi�kraj�we�neo�zbiq�no�za�MKSJ�da�se�ovim�zah�te�vom�ini�ci�ra�ni�po�-stu�pak�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�pre�lo�mi�sa�mo�na�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�maTu�̀ i�la�{tva,�ko�ji�su,�u�kraj�wem,�ra�di�li�na�na�~in�ka�ko�su�im�na�re�di�li�Kar�ladel�Pon�te,�Hil�de�gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�nij�el�Sak�son.�Oni,�osim�ovla�{}e�wada�vr�{e�kri�vi~�no� go�we�we� su�i� slu�̀ be�ni�ci,�ka�ko�to�na�vo�de,�me�|u�na�rod�neprav�de,�pa�ima�ju�pod�jed�na�ku�oba�ve�zu�da�spro�vo�de�prav�du�i�to�ne�sa�mo�pri�ku�-pqa�ju�}i�sa�istom�rev�nosno{}u�i�do�ka�ze�ko�ji�idu�u�pri�log�op�tu�̀ e�nom,�ne�go�ida�sve�do�ka�ze�pri�ku�pqa�ju�u�skla�du�sa�pra�vi�li�ma�ne�~i�ne�}i�kri�vi~�no�de�lo�ne�-po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.

Pre�ma�li�ci�ma�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu,�ovla�{}e�na�li�ca�Tu�̀ i�la�-{tva�su�vr�{i�la�pret�we,�za�stra�{i�va�li�su�ih,�na�no�si�li�su�im�{te�tu,�nu�di�li�sumi�to,�a�u�pi�ta�wu�su�li�ca�ko�ja�su�po�ten�ci�jal�ni�sve�do�ci�od�bra�ne.�Osim�sve�stii�na�me�re�da�se�pre�ti,�za�stra�{u�je,�na�no�si�{te�ta�i�nu�di�mi�to,�ovla�{}e�na�li�caTu�̀ i�la�{tva�su�bi�la�sve�sna�i�da�su�sva�li�ca�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�po�ten�ci�-jal�ni�sve�do�ci�od�bra�ne.�Uosta�lom,�oni�su�bi�li�sve�sni�da�je�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav[e�{eq�imao�vi�{e�raz�lo�ga�da�li�ca�na�ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu�pro�sto�re�zer�vi�-{e�za�po�ten�ci�jal�ne�sve�do�ke�od�bra�ne.�Ako�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ve}oba�vi�li�raz�go�vor�sa�ovim�li�ci�ma,�on�da�su�bi�li�du�̀ ni�da�kom�plet�ne�ma�te�ri�-ja�le�do�sta�ve�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu,�jer�je�i�to�ma�te�ri�jal�ko�ji�ide�u�pri�-log�od�bra�ni,�s�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�su�raz�go�vo�ri�vo�|e�ni�po�vo�dom�mno�gih�de�ta�qako�ji�se�od�no�se�na�kri�vi~�nu�od�go�vor�nost�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�da�gasve�do�ci�ni�su�op�tu�̀ i�va�li�ni�ti�pro�zi�va�li.�S�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�taj�ma�te�ri�jalni�je�do�sta�vqen�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu,�ja�sno�je�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�kri�je�ma�-te�ri�ja�le,�jer�su�oni�do�kaz�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.�

U�skla�du�sa�pra�vi�lom�77�(B)�Pra�vil�ni�ka�pod�sti�ca�we�na�iz�vr�{e�we�i�po�-ku�{aj�iz�vr�{e�wa�bi�lo�ko�jeg�od�de�la�ka�̀ wi�vih�po�sta�vu�(A)�ovog�pra�vi�la,�ka�-`wi�vi�su�kao�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�i�po�vla�~e�iste�ka�zne.�Na�osno�-vu�ovog�pra�vi�la�al�ter�na�tiv�no�se�po�sta�vqa�od�go�vor�nost�ovla�{}e�nih�li�ca�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�za�slu�~aj�po�o�{tra�va�wa�kri�te�ri�ju�ma�iz�pra�vi�la�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka,�jerima�do�sta�do�ka�za�da�je�pro�sto�u�pi�ta�wu�stil�ra�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�ko�je�se�pro�gla�-si�lo�ovla�{}e�nim�da�~ak�i�otvo�re�no�vr�{i�po�li�ti~�ke�pri�ti�ske�na�dr�̀ a�ve,�paje�sa�svim�o~e�ki�va�no�da�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�kao�ne�ki�se�bi�pro�pi�sa�ni�mi�ni�mum�i�pu�-tem�pret�wi�do�la�ze�do�sve�do�ka�ko�je�pri�mo�ra�va�da�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e.

U�ovom�zah�te�vu�je�na�mer�no�iz�o�sta�vqen�{i�ri�opis,�ka�ko�je�pro�pi�sa�no�Pra�-vil�ni�kom�da�se�vo�di�is�tra�ga,�od�po�zi�va�wa,�uzi�ma�wa�iz�ja�va,�do�pred�lo�ga�za�utr�-|i�va�we�sta�tu�sa�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka,�jer�se�iz�iz�ja�va�li�ca,�ko�ja�su�na�ve�de�na�uovom�zah�te�vu�ja�sno�utvr�|u�je�da�im�ni�su�uru�~e�ni�pri�mer�ci�wi�ho�vih�iz�ja�va,�dane�ki�ni�su�ni�{ta�pot�pi�sa�li,�a�oni�ko�ji�su�pot�pi�sa�li�i�ne�zna�ju�{ta�su�pot�pi�-

31

Page 32: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

sa�li,�da�je�bi�lo�vi�deo-sni�ma�wa,�a�da�pri�me�rak�snim�ka�ni�je�do�sta�vqen�li�cu�isli~�no,�{to�sve�pred�sta�vqa�po�vre�du�pra�vi�la�Pra�vil�ni�ka.�Sve�to�ne�mo�̀ e�dase�pri�kri�je�pra�vi�lom�da�ne�po�sto�ji�oba�ve�za�obe�lo�da�wi�va�wa,�da�su�to�in�ter�niak�ti�i�sli~�no.�Na�pro�sto,�ovaj�zah�tev�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�na�la�̀ e�dasve�to�bu�de�pred�met�raz�ma�tra�wa,�kao�i�sud�ski�ove�re�ne�iz�ja�ve�li�ca�ko�ja�su�na�-ve�de�na�u�ovom�zah�te�vu,�jer�je�di�no�ta�ko�mo�̀ e�da�se�utvr�di�da�su�iz�vr�{e�ne�rad�-we�ne�po�{to�va�wa�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.�Osim�to�ga,�to�isto�na�la�̀ e�i�sa�ma�~i�we�-ni�ca�da�je�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�od�pr�vog�da�na�pri�tvo�ra�pri�go�va�rao�iPre�tre�sna�ve�}a�upo�zo�ra�vao�da�se�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�slu�̀ i�la�̀ nim�sve�do�ci�ma�doko�jih�do�la�zi�pret�wa�ma,�za�stra�{i�va�wem,�nu�|e�wem�mi�ta�i�sli~�nim�ob�li�ci�mavr�{e�wa�pri�ti�ska�na�po�ten�ci�jal�ne�sve�do�ke.�Ako�pr�vog�da�na�pri�tvo�ra�prof.�drVo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�ni�je�mo�gao�da�po�nu�di�kon�kret�ni�do�kaz,�on�da�ovaj�zah�tev�sa�-dr�̀ i�18�kon�kret�an�do�ka�za.

S�ob�zi�rom�na�to�da�se�ovim�zah�te�vom�tra�̀ i�po�kre�ta�we�po�stup�ka�pro�tivnaj�od�go�vor�ni�jih�slu�̀ be�ni�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�za�ko�je�ima�raz�lo�ga�za�sum�wu�da�bimo�gli�bi�ti�kri�vi�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da,�naj�ce�lis�hod�ni�je�je�dazbog�auto�ri�te�ta�Pre�tre�snog�ve�}a�ono�samo�za�po~�ne�po�stu�pak�u�skla�du�sa�svo�-jim�in�he�rent�nim�ovla�{}e�wi�ma�te�iz�da�na�log�in�lo�co�op�tu�̀ ni�ce�i�za�timsâmo�pre�du�zme�kri�vi~�no�go�we�we�za�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�pro�tivKar�le�del�Pon�te,�Hil�de�gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�nij�ela�Sak�sona.

Da�le�ko� te�̀ i� ob�lik� ne�po�{to�va�wa� me�|u�na�rod�nog� su�da� i� spre�~a�va�waostva�ri�va�wa�prav�de�pred�me�|u�na�rod�nim�su�dom�je�si�ste�mat�sko�po�na�{a�we�Tu�-`i�la�{tva�u�obez�be�|i�va�wu�la�̀ nih�sve�do�ka�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�-qa.�Da�kle,�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�u�pred�me�tu�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�si�-ste�mat�ski�spre�~a�va�ostva�ri�va�we�prav�de�i�pred�u�zi�ma�rad�we�ne�po�{to�va�wa�me�-|u�na�rod�nog�su�da.

U�pri�lo�gu�ovog�zah�te�va�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�do�sta�vqa�18�sud�skiove�re�nih�iz�ja�va�li�ca�ko�ji�ma�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li,�za�pla�{i�-va�li�ih,�na�no�si�li�im�{te�tu�i�nu�di�li�mi�to�da�bi�pri�sta�li�da�bu�du�sve�do�ci�Tu�-`i�la�{tva,�ko�ji�bi�la�̀ no�sve�do�~i�li�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.

III Tra ̀ e no prav no sred stvo

Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�ovim�zah�te�vom�tra�̀ i�da�Pre�tre�sno�ve�}e�III,u�skla�du�sa�pra�vi�lom�77�Pra�vil�ni�ka,�sa�mo�po�kre�ne�i�spro�ve�de�po�stu�pak�za�ne�-po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da�pro�tiv�Kar�le�del�Pon�te,�Hil�de�gard�Uerc-Reclaf�i�Da�nij�ela�Sak�sona�zbog�osno�va�ne�sum�we�da�su�iz�vr�{i�li�ka�̀ wi�va�de�-la�ne�po�{to�va�we�me�|u�na�rod�nog�su�da,�za�to�{to�su�sve�sno�i�na�mer�no�ome�ta�laspro�vo�|e�we�prav�de,� jer�su�osmi�sli�li�si�stem,�na�re�di�li�i�pod�sti�ca�li�svo�jepod�re�|e�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�qe�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�da�po�ten�ci�jal�nim�sve�do�ci�ma�od�bra�neprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�pre�te,�za�stra�{u�ju�ih,�na�no�se�im�{te�tu�i�nu�de�immi�to�ka�ko�bi�pri�sta�li�da,�kao�sve�do�ci�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e�pro�tivprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Broj�re�~i:�11.562.�Prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq(ura�dio�~lan�Stru~�nog�ti�ma�Zo�ran�Kra�si})”.

Izjave32

Page 33: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Kao�do�kaz�za�na�vo�de�iz�zah�te�va,�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�je�do�sta�vio�i18�sud�ski�ove�re�nih�iz�ja�va�li�ca�ko�ji�ma�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ti�li,za�stra�{i�va�li�ih,�uce�wi�va�li�i�po�ku�{a�li�da�ih�pot�ku�pe:�

1. Ne�nad�Jo�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu�ko�ja�je�2.�mar�ta�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�^e�tvr�-tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.�br.�3014/2007.�

“Ja�Jo�vi}�(Ra�do�mi�ra)�Ne�nad,�na�di�mak�Ne�{o,�ro�|en�2.�ok�to�bra�1957.�go�di�-ne,�u�me�stu�Ra�daq,�Op�{ti�na�Ma�li�Zvor�nik,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Sr�bi�ja,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�-{tem�u�Ra�da�qu,�sa�li~�nom�kar�tom�broj�31091,�JMBG�0210957774118,�iz�da�tom�odstra�ne�SUP-a�Ma�li�Zvor�nik,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�-slav�na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bi�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�gra�|e�-vin�ski�rad�nik,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we�po�li�ca�jac,

Iz ja vqu jem:Do�mog�pr�vog�kon�tak�ta�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�do�{lo�je�2002.�go�-

di�ne�u�Be�o�ge�a�du.�Ne�pam�tim�da�tum,�ali�se�se�}am�da�je�to�bi�lo�tri-�~e�ti�ri�da�-na�na�kon�sve�do�~e�wa�Dra�ga�na�Spa�so�je�vi�}a�u�pro�ce�su�pro�tiv�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�-{e�vi�}a.Tih�da�na�mo�joj�ku�}i�su�do�{la�dvo�ji�ca�qu�di,�do�ne�li�mi�adre�si�ran�ko�-ve�rat,�u�ko�jem�je�bio�po�ziv�da�se�mo�ram�oda�zva�ti,�pi�sa�lo�je�’Mo�li�mo�vas�da�seoda�zo�ve�te�po�zi�vu�i�da�do�|e�te�da�na�tog�i�tog�u�kan�ce�la�ri�ju�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.’Ovi�{to�su�mi�do�ne�li�ko�ve�rat�bi�li�su�na�{i,�pred�sta�vi�li�su�se�da�su�iz�Ode�-qe�wa�za�or�ga�ni�zo�va�ni�kri�mi�nal.�

Do�{li�su�re�no�om,�ili�pe�̀ o�om,�ni�sam�si�gu�ran,�znam�da�je�bio�ma�wi�auto�-mo�bil.�

^o�vek�je�bio�u�ci�vi�lu.�Ja�sam�ustao�uju�tru,�oni�sje�de�is�pred�ku�}e�i�ka�̀ u’tre�ba�nam�Ne�nad.’�Re�koh�’ja�sam.’�Pr�vo�sam�mi�slio�da�je�ne�ka�{a�la,�vi�dim�znakTri�bu�na�la�go�re�na�ko�ver�ti,�otvo�rim�i�pri�me�tim�da�ne�ma�pot�pi�sa�su�di�je,�is�-tra�̀ i�te�qa,�ni�ko�ga.

Pri�mio�sam�po�ziv�i�po�tra�̀ io�Dra�ga�na�Spa�so�je�vi�}a.�U�jed�noj�od�we�go�vihfir�mi�na�{ao�sam�we�go�vog�{u�ra�ka�ko�ji�mi�je�re�kao�da�je�Dra�gan�u�Ha�gu.�Na�konSpa�so�je�vi�}e�vog�po�vrat�ka�iz�Ha�ga�vi�deo�sam�se�sa�wim�i�pi�tao�ga�{ta�da�ra�-dim.�Po�sa�ve�to�vao�me�da�go�vo�rim�sa�mo�isti�nu.�

U�za�ka�za�no�vre�me�sam�oti�{ao�do�kan�ce�la�ri�je�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.�Ne�se�-}am�ko�ji�je�bio�da�tum,�ali�znam�da�je�tog�da�na�ka�me�no�va�na�slo�va~�ka�am�ba�sa�da.Tre�ba�lo�je�da�se�ja�vim�u�de�vet�sa�ti�uju�tru.�Ja�vio�sam�se�na�ka�pi�ji�de�̀ ur�nom,�od�-no�sno�po�li�caj�cu�ko�ji�obez�be�|u�je�zgra�du.�Dao�sam�mu�mo�ju�li~�nu�kar�tu,�sa�na�me�-rom�da�se�zna�gde�sam�u{ao,�ako�me�ne�sta�ne,�ili�ako�mi�se�ne�{to�de�si,�da�osta�-ne�po�da�tak�gde�sam�zad�wi�put�bio.�Po�li�ca�jac�je�za�pi�sao�i�za�zvo�nio�na�vra�ta.Re�kli�su�mu�da�me�pu�sti�unu�tra,�a�ta�mo�su�me�sa�~e�ka�le�jed�na�`e�na�i�jed�na�dje�-voj�ka�kao�pre�vo�di�lac.�@e�na�je�pri�~a�la�en�gle�ski,�a�de�voj�ka�je�pre�vo�di�la�da�imje�dra�go�{to�sam�se�oda�zvao�po�zi�vu,�da�je�to�mno�go�bo�qe�i�lak�{e�za�me�ne.�Re�-kla�je�da�se�ni�sam�oda�zvao,�oni�bi�do�{li�po�me�ne,�pa�bih�mo�lio�bih�Bo�ga�ka�da}e�do�}i�da�me�sa�slu�{a�va�ju,�jer�bi�me�dr�̀ a�li�za�tvo�re�nog�u�ne�koj�sa�mi�ci�sa�upa�-qe�nim�re�flek�to�ri�ma.�I�on�da�sam�pro�{ao,�kroz�ske�ner,�osta�vio�svoj�mo�bil�-ni�kod�wih�u�pri�ze�mqu�pa�su�me�is�pra�ti�li�u�kan�ce�la�ri�ju.�

Bi�li�su�ja�ko�qu�ba�zni,�ni�je�bi�lo�ni�ka�kvog�mal�tre�ti�ra�wa.�Po�~e�lo�je�pr�vois�pi�ti�va�we�o�me�ni,�da�bi�ka�sni�je�pre�{li�na�ce�li�rat,�ci�je�lo�u~e�{}e�u�ra�tu.Ja�sam�to�po�ve�zao�sa�iz�ja�vom�Dra�ga�na�Spa�so�je�vi�}a,�jer�ja�i�Dra�gan�Spa�so�je�vi}

33

Page 34: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

smo�se�upo�zna�li�u�Dar�di.�Ja�sam�ta�da�bio�u�Dar�di�kao�do�bro�vo�qac�i�u�to�ku�jed�-nog�na�pa�da�on�je�tra�̀ io�od�ta�da�{weg�po�mo}�ni�ka�mi�ni�stra�unu�tra�{wih�po�-slo�va,�Mar�ti�}e�vog�po�mo}�ni�ka,�Ra�do�{a�Ko�sti�}a,�da�do�|em�we�mu,�da�idem�uZvor�nik,�i�da�bu�dem�we�mu�pri�ru�ci.�Svje�sno�sam�pri�~ao,�i�odo�go�ran�sam�za�ono{to�sam�re�kao�za�sva�~e�ti�ri�su�sre�ta�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.�

Bi�la�su�~e�ti�ri�su�sre�ta,�do�po�sled�weg�su�sre�ta�ko�ji�je�bio�19.�ok�to�bra�2006.go�di�ne.�Bi�lo�je�to�19,�20,�21.�i�22.ok�to�bra.�Ra�di�lo�se�i�da�wu�i�no�}u,�i{li�su�nato�da�iz�gu�bim�str�pqe�we�i�kon�cen�tra�ci�ju�i�da�po~�nem�da�go�vo�rim�ono�{to�oni`e�le�da�~u�ju.�

Svi�raz�go�vo�ri�su�vo�|e�ni�u�pri�su�stvu�vi�{e�qu�di,�ana�li�ti�~a�ra,�pre�vo�di�-la�ca,�psi�ho�lo�ga,�psi�hi�ja�ta�ra,�{ta�ja�znam�{ta�je�sve�u�eki�pi.�Po�pet,�{est�wihne�kad�bu�de,�pa�su�se�i�mije�wa�li,�pa�su�mi�tra�̀ i�li�da�na�pi�{em�ne�{to�na�pa�pi�-ru,�pa�on�da�to�gle�da�ju,�upo�re�|u�ju,�ana�li�zi�ra�ju,�pa�haj�de�opet�po�sle�po�la�sa�ta�na�-pi�{i�opet�ono�isto,�pa�ta�ko�vi�{e�pu�ta.�Po�sled�wi�su�sret�je�tra�jao�~e�ti�ri�da�-na�sko�ro�ne�pre�kid�no,�od�mo�rim�se�de�se�tak�mi�nu�ta,�pu�ste�me�na�te�ra�su�da�po�pu�-{im�ci�ga�re�tu,�pa�opet.�Ta�ko�je�bi�lo�i�u�to�ku�no�}i.�Za�istim�sto�lom�se�i�je�loi�pri�~a�lo.�Me�ni�je�to�bi�lo�ja�ko�za�mor�no,�psi�hi~�ki�me�ubi�ja�lo,�vi�deo�sam�daidu�na�to�da�iz�gu�bim�str�pqe�we,�da�ka�̀ em�ako�ne�{to�znam,�da�bih�sa�mo�{to�preoti�{ao�ku�}i.�

Stal�no�sam�se�`a�lio�da�sam�umo�ran,�pi�tao�ih�da�li�mo�̀ e�mo�da�na�pra�vi�-mo�pa�u�zu�15�mi�nu�ta.�Do�zvo�qa�va�li�su�pet�na�e�stak�mi�nu�ta,�ali�vi�{e�ne.�Pu�sti�-li�su�me�u�ta�~e�ti�ri�da�na�jed�nom�da�od�spa�vam�mo�̀ da�od�12�do�~e�ti�ri,�pa�bi�na�-sta�vi�li�ka�sni�je.�

Oni�ima�ju�za�ku�pqe�nu�zgra�du�po�red�wi�ho�ve,�i�tu�sam�spa�vao.�To�je�stam�be�-na�zgra�da�i�tu�spa�va�i�wi�ho�vo�obez�be�|e�we�i�po�li�caj�ci�Uje�di�we�nih�na�ci�ja�ko�-ji�su�unu�tra�obez�be�|e�we.�

Sve�ono�{to�se�de�{a�va�lo�dok�sam�bio�sve�stan�to�ga�se�se�}am�do�bro,�alizad�wi�put�ka�da�sam�do�{ao�ku�}i�le�̀ ao�sam�~e�ti�ri�da�na,�ni�sam�ni�vi�deo�ka�-kvi�su,�bu�kval�no�sam�le�̀ ao�po�lo�mqen�sav,�skr�{en,�bez�vo�qe,�bez�i~e�ga,�ku�-wao,�spa�vao,�a�ina�~e�sam�ra�dio�u�Ba�ru�i�Pod�go�ri�ci,�gra�di�li�{ta�sam�do�leimao,�ali�ni�sam�uop�{te�mo�gao�na�to�da�mi�slim,�ni�na�{ta�ni�sam�mi�slio�ika�da�sam�ko�na~�no�~e�tvr�ti�dan�ustao�i�ogle�dao�se,�ja�sam�sav�bio�ote�kao�okoo~i�ju,�ze�ni�ce�su�mi�bi�le�kao�dug�mad�u�pli�{a�nog�me�de.�Ja�sam�se�sam�se�be�upla�-{io�ka�kav�sam�bio.�

Mo�gu�da�ga�ran�tu�jem�da�su�mi�sta�vi�li�ne�{to�u�hra�nu�ili�u�pi�}e,�sto�po�stoga�ran�tu�jem,�jer�50�go�di�na�imam,�ne�pi�jem�al�ko�hol�od�1984.�go�di�ne,�ne�dro�gi�ramse,�pu�{im�ci�ga�re,�to�mi�je�je�di�ni�po�rok,�pi�jem�ka�fu�i�ni�{ta�vi�{e.�Naj�̀ a�li�-je�mi�je�i�naj�te�̀ e�{to�ni�sam�od�mah�oti�{ao�le�ka�ru�da�mi�se�iz�va�di�krv.�Ni�samimao�~i�me�da�se�se�tim�ta�da,�jer�ni�~e�ga�ni�sam�bio�sve�stan.�

On�da�sam�seo�na�voz�i�oti�{ao�u�Pod�go�ri�cu�na�po�sao�i�do�le�sam�opet�ku�-wao.�Dva,�tri�da�na�ni�{ta�ni�sam�mo�gao�da�ra�dim,�sa�mo�sam�gle�dao�ka�ko�ra�demo�ji�rad�ni�ci.�Pre�bo�lo�vao�sam�to�ne�ka�ko,�a�kad�sam�ve}�do�{ao�se�bi,�znao�sam{ta�mi�se�do�go�di�lo,�bi�lo�mi�je�`ao�za�{to�mi�se�`e�na�ni�je�sje�ti�la�da�me�od�-ve�de�qe�ka�ru�da�mi�iz�va�de�krv,�ma�da�mo�ja�`e�na�ni�je�ni�zna�la�gdje�sam�ja�biota�~e�ti�ri�da�na.

Ja�se�se�}am�{ta�su�me�pi�ta�li�pri�je�dok�sam�bio�svje�stan�svo�jih�po�stu�pa�ka34

Page 35: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

i�pi�ta�wa�su�bi�la�ve�za�na�uglav�nom�za�Srp�sku�ra�di�kal�nu�stran�ku.�Na�go�ve�{ta�va�li�su�mi�da�tre�ba�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�[e�{e�qa,�~ak�su�me�na

zad�wa�dva�sa�stan�ka,�upo�zo�ri�li�da�se�ve}�spre�mam�da�le�tim�sa�wom�u�Hag,�za�to{to�ne�}u�da�sa�ra�|u�jem,�jer�ja�na�vod�no�imam�kom�pju�ter�u�gla�vi,�ali�da�ne�}u�dapri�~am.�Pa�}u,�kao�ta�mo�u�Ha�gu,�lep�{e�pri�~a�ti.�Te�{ko�mi�je�i�da�se�se�tim�svihde�ta�qa,�bi�lo�je�to�po�o�dav�no�i�pu�na�mi�je�gla�va�wih,�jer�je�sve�to�tra�ja�lo�du�go�ibi�lo�je�za�mor�no.�U�pr�vim�su�sre�ti�ma�su�mi�nu�di�li�pro�me�nu�iden�ti�te�ta�i�ze�-mqu�u�ko�joj�ho�}u�da�̀ i�vim�i�po�sao�za�po�ro�di�cu�i�me�ne,�a�za�uz�vrat�da�sve�do�~impro�tiv�svi�ju.�Zna�~i,�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�pa�po�{to�sam�bio�u�MUP-upro�tiv�Si�ma�to�vi�}a,�pro�tiv�svih�sa�ko�ji�ma�sam�se�sre�tao,�ako�sam�se�sre�tao.Da.�Ja�sam�wu�pi�tao�–�ko�li�ko�to�ko�{ta�Uje�di�we�ne�na�ci�je.�Pa,�ka�̀ e�–�mno�go�pa�-ra.�Ja�joj�ka�̀ em�–�da�je�me�tak�dve�kon�ver�ti�bil�ne�mar�ke,�da�je�Ne�na�da�lak�{eubi�ti�ne�go�da�ti�to�li�ke�pa�re.�Do�la�zi�lo�je�do�me�me�na�ta�ka�da�sam�ja�ba�cao�pa�pi�-re�i�usta�jao�da�idem,�ne�mo�gu�vi�{e�da�iz�dr�̀ im.�On�da�bi�bi�la�krat�ka�pa�u�za,�paube�|i�va�we�’Ne�boj�te�se,�olak�{aj�te�se�bi�du�{u,�lak�{e�}e�te�spa�va�ti,�va�ma�ne�}ebi�ti�ni�{ta,�ni�ko�ne�}e�po�gi�nu�ti,�ni�ko�ne�}e�ni�{ta�zna�ti�oko�svih�ovih�stva�-ri...�ni�ko�ne�}e�zna�ti�da�vi�sve�do�~i�te.’

Ja�sam�wu�pi�tao,�ko�ji�je�to�vid�za�{ti�te.�Ako�ja�sad�va�ma�i�ka�̀ em�to�{tovi�tra�̀ i�te,�pa�ovi�qu�di�}e�su�tra�iza�}i�iz�za�tvo�ra.�Ne�bih�pri�stao�ni�po�ko�jucije�nu,�ni�ta�ko,�ni�ta�ko,�ne�go�sam�mo�rao,�da�hva�tam�ne�ki�ba�lans,�da�ba�lan�si�-ram,�ni�sam�smeo�re�}i�da�ne�}u,�jer�bi�me�uhap�si�li.�Me�ni�su�pre�ti�li�da�}u�bi�tiop�tu�̀ en,�ako�ne�pri�hva�tim�da�bu�dem�sve�dok,�za�to�{to�po�sto�ji�ne�ki�do�ku�mentoko�Kla�du�{e.�Ja�sam�kao�pri�pad�nik�spe�ci�jal�ne�je�di�ni�ce�MUP-a�Kra�ji�ne�biokod�Ve�li�ke�Kla�du�{e,�po�sto�ji�je�dan�mo�jom�ru�kom�pot�pi�san�do�ku�ment�ko�ji�ka�-`e�da�ima�mo�300�za�ro�bqe�ni�ka.�Pa�me�pi�ta�la�{ta�smo�ra�di�li�sa�tih�300�qu�di.Ja�ka�̀ em�–�pu�sti�li�smo�ih,�nor�mal�no.�A�ona�ka�̀ e�da�su�svi�u�ma�sov�noj�grob�ni�-ci�i�da�}e�tih�300�za�ro�bqe�ni�ka�bi�ti�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tiv�me�ne,�ako�ne�bu�demsve�do�~io�pro�tiv�svih�osta�lih.�A�re�kla�je�da�se�me�ni�sta�vqa�na�te�ret�i�Zvor�-nik�i�da�svi�pri�pad�ni�ci�mo�je�je�di�ni�ce�uhap�{e�ni�ili�}e�bi�ti,�a�me�ni�sve�tomo�̀ e�da�se�am�ne�sti�ra,�ako�bu�dem�sve�dok�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�Si�ma�to�-vi�}a�i�osta�lih�ko�je�oni�op�tu�̀ u�ju.�A�ja�znam�ako�pri�hva�ti{�kod�jed�nog�po�sta�-je{�wi�hov�slu�ga�za�sve�{to�im�za�tre�ba.�

I�on�da�su�tu�tra�ja�la�is�pi�ti�va�wa,�ube�|i�va�wa.�Oni�ima�ju�do�sta�po�da�ta�ka�osve�mu.�Ja�ni�sam�uhap�{en,�za�to�{to�su�oni�ga�ji�li�na�du�da�}u�ja�da�pri�sta�nem�dasve�do�~im.

Ona�je�me�ni�ta�da�re�kla,�dru�gi�su�sret�ka�da�je�bio,�da�je�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tivme�ne�spre�mqe�na�i�da�od�me�ne�za�vi�si�da�li�}e�je�ak�ti�vi�ra�ti.�

Oni�u�stva�ri�idu�na�je�dan�psi�hi~�ki�za�mor,�da�~o�vek�jed�no�stav�no�puk�ne,kao�ja�ka�da�sam�ba�cao�pa�pi�re�i�hteo�da�idem.�

Sve�sam�to�li~�no�do�̀ i�vqa�vao�kao�pri�ti�sak�da�bi�me�ta�kvim�is�cr�pqi�va�-wem�na�te�ra�li�da�ka�̀ em�{ta�god�oni�ho�}e.�

Ja�to�znam,�jer�sam�ra�dio�kao�po�li�ca�jac,�ta�ko�se�ra�di�sa�kri�mi�nal�ci�ma,�lo�-po�vi�ma,�za�mo�ri{�ga,�je�dan�te�bra�ni,�dru�gi�ti�pre�ti�i�ta�ko�da�qe.�

Ta�ko�su�oni�sa�mnom�raz�go�va�ra�li,�ba{�ta�ko.�Da,�bi�lo�je�tu�i�ma�̀ e�wa,�oname�ne,�ta�is�tra�̀ i�teq�ka,�ova�ko�pre�ko�sto�la�ma�zi,�pre�ko�ru�ke�i�ka�̀ e�–�Ne�{o,spa�si�te�se�bi�̀ i�vot,�lep�{e�}e�te�spa�va�ti.�Da�vam�bu�de�mir�ni�ja�sa�vest,�da�se�ota�-

35

Page 36: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

ra�si�te�to�ga,�vi�}e�te�bi�ti�dru�gi�~o�vek�ka�da�nam�is�pri�~a�te�da�se�olak�{a�te,�vizna�te�sve,�a�za�{to�kri�je�te,�to�su�pro�fi�te�ri,�lo�po�vi,�zlo�~in�ci.

Pi�ta�li�su�me�da�li�se�pla�{im�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke,�pa�da�zbog�to�gane�}u�da�op�tu�̀ u�jem�[e�{e�qa,�jo{�su�mi�go�vo�ri�li�da�sam�100�od�sto�u�wi�ho�voj�za�-{ti�ti�da�mo�gu�u�sva�ko�do�ba,�ako�ose�tim�ne�ku�opa�snost,�da�u|em�u�pr�vu�me�|u�na�-rod�nu�po�li�ci�ju�da�bi�do�bio�za�{ti�tu.�To�su�ve�li�ke�glu�po�sti�za�me�ne,� jer�jaimam�po�ro�di�cu�i�imam�}er�ku�uda�tu�i�imam�dva�unu�ka�i�ja�ne�mo�gu�ce�lu�mo�ju�fa�-mi�li�ju�sa�kri�ti.�Se�}am�se�kad�mi�po�sta�ve�ne�ko�pi�ta�we,�kao�kroz�onaj�de�tek�torla�̀ i,�re�ci�mo,�kad�pri�~am�o�Zvor�ni�ku.�Oni�stvo�re�{ti�mung,�po~�nu�da�se�{a�-le,�stvo�re�am�bi�jent�da�se�~o�vek�opu�sti,�da�pri�~a{�kao�sa�pri�ja�te�qi�ma.�

Ni�ka�da�nijed�nu�iz�ja�vu�ni�sam�pot�pi�sao�ko�li�ko�ja�znam�i�do�kle�se�se�}am,ali�ako�sam�ne�{to�pot�pi�sao�u�ne�kom�di�li�ri�ju�mu,�taj�zad�wi�put�ja�se�to�ga�nesje�}am,�jer�sam�ta�da�bio�van�zdra�ve�pa�me�ti.�Znam�da�ni�ka�da�ni�sam�do�bio�ni�ka�-kav�za�pi�snik,�ni�ka�kav�pa�pir.�Ni�sam�vi�deo�da�su�sni�ma�li�raz�go�vor,�ali�ve�ru�-jem�da�je�su�sni�ma�li.�Jav�no�ne,�si�gur�no.�Ali�to�je�100�od�sto�bi�lo.�Osta�vi�li�sume�u�jed�noj�kan�ce�la�ri�ji�sa�mog�da�ne�{to�kao�slu�{am�tu.�Tu�osta�ne�wi�ho�va�tor�-ba�sa�tim�wi�ho�vim�CD�dis�ko�vi�ma�i�vaq�da�gle�da�ju�da�li�}u�ja�to�da�zlo�u�po�tre�-bim,�da�im�ne�{to�uzmem�iz�tor�be.�

Ovim�raz�go�vo�ri�ma�je�pri�su�stvo�va�la�jo{�jed�na�`e�na,�ona�je�ku�ca�la�sve�ta�-mo�{to�se�pri�~a�lo.�Ku�ca�la�je�dok�sam�ja�bio�svje�stan,�ja�ni�{ta�ni�sam�pot�pi�-sao,�ali�zad�wi�put�ka�da�sam�bio...�mo�gu�}e�je�sve,�ne�mo�gu�da�ga�ran�tu�jem�da�ni�-sam,�jer�sam�bio�100�od�sto�dro�gi�ran.�

Znam�da�je�is�tra�̀ i�teq�bi�la�`e�na.�Ri�ta�Ra�dan,�ta�ko�ne�ka�ko�se�zo�ve,�ovo�usre�di�ni�ne�znam�ka�ko�se�~i�ta.�

Oni�su�me�ni�nu�di�li�i�tad�i�pri�je�i�uvi�jek�da�svje�do�~im�pro�tiv�[e�{e�qa,~ak�je�je�dan�de~�ki}�bio�tu�ko�ji�je�za�du�̀ en�bio�za�Srp�sku�ra�di�kal�nu�stran�ku.�Ion�je�naj�vi�{e�pi�ta�wa�po�sta�vqao�uvek.�Naj�vi�{e�ga�je�to�in�te�re�so�va�lo.�Bi�lo�ja�-ko�za�mor�no�i�ja�ko�te�{ko�jer�je�tu�bi�lo,�osim�pre�vo�di�o�ca,�jo{�po�pet,�{est�wi�-ho�vih.�I�on�da�ti�onaj�po�sta�vqa�pi�ta�wa,�onaj�pi�ta�wa,�onaj�do�ba�ci�ne�ku�{a�lu,pa�on�da�opet�pi�ta�we,�pa�to�tra�je�od�de�vet�uju�tru�do�je�da�na�est�no�}u�uz�krat�kepa�u�ze�po�de�se�tak,�pet�na�est�mi�nu�ta.�Ta�ko�da�je�te�{ko�bi�lo�op�sta�ti.�Pa�pred�la�-`u�pro�me�nu�iden�ti�te�ta,�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka,�u�za�me�nu�za�sve�do�~e�wepro�tiv�[e�{e�qa,�pro�tiv�Si�ma�to�vi�}a,�pro�tiv�svi�ju�ko�ji�su�op�tu�̀ e�ni.Ta�is�-tra�̀ i�teq�ka�mi�je�u�stva�ri�pre�ti�la�hap�{e�wem�i�od�vo�|e�wem�u�Hag.�

Ja�ni�sam�re�kao�ni�da�ho�}u�da�sa�ra�|u�jem�ni�da�ne�}u,�uhva�tio�sam�ne�ki�ba�-lans�da�mo�gu�da�sjev�nem�ne�|e.�Po�sli�je�to�li�ko�pri�ti�sa�ka�ko�je�su�vr�{i�li�na�me�-ne,�po�sli�je�to�li�ke�tor�tu�re�ja�wi�ma�ni�{ta�ne�vje�ru�jem,�ja�se�u�stva�ri�wih�pla�-{im.

Za�to�sam�sva�ki�put�ka�da�sam�ula�zio�osta�vqao�li~�nu�kar�tu�po�li�caj�cu�naula�zu,�iako�mi�je�is�tra�̀ i�teq�ka�re�kla�da�oni�ne�ma�ju�pra�vo�na�ula�zu�da�mi�tra�-`e�do�ku�men�ta.�Ja�sam�ipak�osta�vqao�li~�nu�kar�tu,�da�se�zna�gdje�sam�u{ao�akomi�se�slu�~aj�no�ne�{to�de�si,�po�sli�je�svih�tor�tu�ra�ko�je�su�vr�{i�li�na�da�mnom�jani�sam�smeo�da�im�vje�ru�jem.�Pla�{io�sam�se�da�me�ne�otru�ju,�ili�da�me�od�ve�zu�uza�tvor,�ili�da�me�od�ve�du�u�Hag,�pa�bi�se�ne�ko�bar�sje�tio,�ako�bi�me�`e�na�tra�-`i�la,�a�bi�me�tra�̀ i�la�si�gur�no,�mo�̀ da�bi�se�taj�sje�tio...�

Ja�sam�raz�go�vor�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�ose�}ao�kao�ve�li�ki�pri�ti�sak36

Page 37: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

i�pret�wu�i�ja�sam�oti�{ao,�ja�sam�u�apri�lu,�pre�re�fe�ren�du�ma�u�Cr�noj�Go�ri,�oti�-{ao�u�Cr�nu�Go�ru�da�ra�dim,�jed�no�stav�no,�da�se�sklo�nim�da�me�ne�na�|e�ni�ko.�Neda�me�ne�na�|e,�ne�go�da�ni�sam�na�do�hvat�ru�ke,�̀ e�na�je�ima�la�broj�te�le�fo�na�i�sa�-mo�bli�ski�pri�ja�te�qi.�Ja�ni�sam�be�̀ ao�od�bi�lo�ka�kvog�raz�go�vo�ra,�ne�go�zbog�sve�-ga�ono�ga�{to�sam�do�̀ i�veo�imao�sam�strah�da�se�po�no�vo�su�sret�nem�sa�wi�ma,�jersam�ovo�wi�ho�vo�sa�slu�{a�we�ko�je�je�tra�ja�lo�da�ni�ma�u�ne�ko�li�ko�na�vra�ta�do�̀ i�-veo�kao�psi�hi~�ku�tor�tu�ru,�pri�ti�sak�i�ucje�ne.�

Osim�to�ga�i�mo�ja�po�ro�di�ca�je�ima�la�pro�ble�ma,�jer�ni�sam�smeo�da�im�ka�-`em�gde�idem,�gde�sam�pro�veo�~e�ti�ri�da�na,�mo�ram�da�is�kqu�~im�te�le�fon,�`e�-na�se,�nor�mal�no,�se�ki�ra,�ni�sam�de�te�ma�lo.�

Ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�i�bez�ika�kvih�pri�ti�sa�ka.�U�Ze�mu�nu,�29.�ja�nu�-a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Ne�nad�Jo�vi}”.

2.Zo�ran�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�7.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�-na�u�^e�tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.�br.�1667/07.

“Ja�Zo�ran�(Da�ni�la)�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi},�na�di�mak�^i�~a,�ro�|en�19.�ma�ja�1947.�go�-di�ne�u�Ra�nov�cu,�op�{ti�na�Pe�tro�vac�na�Mla�vi,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Sr�bi�ja,�sa�pre�bi�va�-li�{tem�u�Be�o�gra�du,�ul.�Vid�ska�37,�sa�li~�nom�kar�tom�broj�M�243757,�JMBG1905947710237�iz�da�te�od�SUP-a�Be�o�grad,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�-vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�ri�srp�ski,�po�za�ni�-ma�wu�ofi�cir�u�pen�zi�ji,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we�va�zdu�ho�plov�ni�ofi�cir,

Iz ja vqu jem:Do�mog�pr�vog�kon�tak�ta�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�do�{lo�je�kra�jem

2002.�go�di�ne�u�pro�sto�ri�ja�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Bi�lo�je�hlad�no,ali�le�po�vre�me,�se�}am�se.�Sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�sreo�sam�sese�dam-osam�pu�ta.�Evo�ova�ko�je�bi�lo.�U�me�|u�vre�me�nu,�mo�̀ da�dan-dva�pre�to�-ga,�zo�ve�me�ne�moj�brat�i�ka�̀ e�da�me�tra�̀ i�ne�ki�Ita�li�jan�no�vi�nar,�ko�ji�ho�-}e�da�ra�di�in�ter�vju�sa�mnom.�Na�rav�no,�moj�brat�ni�je�raz�u�meo,�ni�je�se�ra�di�loo�in�ter�vjuu�za�no�vi�ne,�ve}�o�raz�go�vo�ru�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�-la.�Ja�sam�oti�{ao�u�wi�ho�ve�pro�sto�ri�je,�ta�mo�me�pri�mio�ne�ki�Fi�nac�ko�ji�jeod�mah�mo�rao�da�se�vra�ti�u�Hag�i�ja�ga�po�sle�to�ga�vi�{e�ni�sam�vi�deo.�On�da�do�-la�zi�Pa�o�lo�Stro�ci,�is�tra�̀ i�teq,�ko�ji�je�za�po�~eo�is�pi�ti�va�we�uzi�ma�wem�po�-da�ta�ka�o�da�tu�mu�i�me�stu�ro�|e�wa,�o�to�me�{ta�sam�ra�dio,�gde�sam�ra�dio,�gde�sambio�i�sli~�no.�Ali�on�je�to�ne�ka�ko�pre�ska�kao,�pi�ta�me�ovo,�pa�me�pi�ta�ono,ta�ko�ja�sa�da�ne�mo�gu�ni�da�se�se�tim�{ta�me�sve�pi�tao.�Znam�sa�mo�da�su�mi�re�-kli�da�mi�uzi�ma�ju�u�svoj�stvu�wi�ho�vog�sve�do�ka�i�to�u�pred�met�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa.�̂ ud�no�mi�je�bi�lo�da�kad�god�sam�se�~uo�sa�ne�kim�iz�Stran�ke,�od�mah�su�-tra�dan�bi�me�po�no�vo�zva�li�na�raz�go�vor.�Ja�sam�po�ku�{ao�da�sa�znam�{ta�oni�ustva�ri�ho�}e�od�me�ne,�ali�sam�pri�me�tio�da�se�tu�de�{a�va�ju�~ud�ne�stva�ri�i�jasam�mo�rao�da�se�sklo�nim�u�ma�na�stir.�Ali,�u�me�|u�vre�me�nu�sam,�bio�ne�gde�7-8pu�ta�kod�wih.�Po�sled�wi�put�bi�lo�je�pre�dve�tri�go�di�ne,�ne�se�}am�se�da�tu�ma,ali�je�bi�lo�po�sle�[e�{e�qe�vog�od�la�ska�u�Hag.�I�ta�da�su�mi�pred�la�ga�li�da�bu�-dem�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ be.�To�u�stva�ri�ni�je�bio�pred�log,�ve}�uce�na�jer�su�mi�re�kliova�ko:�’go�spo�di�ne�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi�}u,�ako�vi�ov�de�ne�sa�ra�|u�je�te�sa�na�ma�u�ovom�in�-ter�vjuu,�vi�}e�te�do�bi�ti�se�dam�go�di�na�za�tvo�ra�i�250�hi�qa�da�evra�ka�zne.’�Ja�samre�kao�da�u�za�tvor�mo�gu�da�idem,�ali�da�ka�znu�ne�mo�gu�da�pla�tim.�Ja�sam�pri�-stao�da�dam�iz�ja�vu,�ali�sa�da�stvar�no�ne�umem�to�da�ob�ja�snim.�Da�li�su�me�tre�-ti�ra�li�kao�sve�do�ka�op�tu�̀ be.�Ja�ni�ka�kav�za�pi�snik�sa�tog�raz�go�vo�ra�ni�sam�do�-

37

Page 38: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

bio.�Tra�̀ io�sam,�ali�ni�sam�do�bio,�jer�su�re�kli�da�me�to�ne�sle�du�je.�Ja�sampot�pi�sao�svo�je�iz�ja�ve,�~ak�sam�pot�pi�si�vao�sva�ku�stra�nu�i�vi�{e�pu�ta�sam�tra�-`io�da�iz�vr�{e�ne�ke�is�prav�ke,�jer�su�po�ku�{a�li�da�mi�pod�met�nu�da�pot�pi�{emi�ono�{to�uop�{te�ni�sam�re�kao.

Sa�mnom�je�raz�go�va�ra�lo�uglav�nom�dvo�je�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa,�ili�sa�mo�Pa�o�loStro�ci,�i�uvek�je�bi�la�pri�sut�na�̀ e�na�pre�vo�di�lac,�mi�slim�da�se�zo�ve�Pa�u�li�nai�da�je�Ne�mi�ca.�

Re�kli�su�mi�da�u�sva�ko�do�ba�mo�gu�od�wih�da�po�tra�̀ im�po�mo}�ako�bu�demimao�po�tre�bu�za�tim.�

Pi�ta�li�su�me�pr�vo�sve�ve�za�no�za�[e�{e�qa,�a�ima�li�su�is�pred�se�be�i�pi�ta�-wa�i�od�go�vo�re,�da�me�pod�se�te�ako�ka�̀ em�da�ne�{to�ne�znam.�In�si�sti�ra�li�su�svevre�me�da�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu�{to�vi�{e�na�mak�nu�kri�vi�ce.�Ja�sam�na�rav�no�uvekgo�vo�rio�ono�{to�je�ste.�Se�}am�se�da�mi�je�ne�ko�li�ko�pu�ta�re�kao�ka�ko�on�zna�daja�we�ga�mo�ram�da�bra�nim,�ali�da�to�ne�tre�ba�da�ra�dim,�jer�oni�na�vod�no�zna�ju�da[e�{eq�me�ne�ni�je�ni�po�{to�vao,�ni�vo�leo.�To�su�po�na�vqa�li�ne�ko�li�ko�pu�ta�i�jasam�to�do�̀ i�veo�kao�wi�hov�po�ku�{aj�da�me�na�pre�va�ru�ube�de�da�mi�mo�svo�je�vo�-qe�go�vo�rim�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.

Ne�ko�li�ko�pu�ta�bi�li�su�gru�bi�i�po�ka�zi�va�li�su�da�su�oni�si�la�ta�ko�{to�supo�ne�ko�li�ko�pu�ta�po�na�vqa�li.�’Ka�̀ i,�ka�̀ i...’�kao�da�su�hte�li�da�me�do�ve�du�u�si�-tu�a�ci�ju�da�ih�mo�lim�da�pre�sta�nu�i�da�utvr�de�da�li�ih�se�pla�{im.�To�sam�do�̀ i�-veo�kao�psi�hi~�ki�pri�ti�sak�i�po�ku�{aj�oma�lo�va�̀ a�va�wa.

Naj�vi�{e�su�me�gwa�vi�li�pi�ta�wi�ma�za�Hrt�kov�ce.�Ceo�dan�su�me�da�vi�li�imal�tre�ti�ra�li�istim�pi�ta�wi�ma,�da�sam�na�kra�ju�re�kao�ne�ka�pi�{u�{ta�god�ho�-}e,�a�ja�}u�isti�nu�re�}i�ako�bu�de�tre�ba�lo�pred�Tri�bu�na�lom.

Ovi�su�sre�ti�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�su�bi�li�~e�sti.�Pr�vi�put�je�to�tra�ja�lo�~e�-ti�ri-pet�da�na�uza�stop�ce,�a�on�da�po�sle,�dru�gi�put�ka�da�su�me�po�zva�li,�vaq�daje�bi�lo�jed�no�dva-tri�da�na.�Da�li�su�mi�broj�te�le�fo�na�ako�tre�ba�da�im�se�ja�-vim,�ako�bu�dem�imao�ne�ka�kvih�pro�ble�ma.�Go�vo�ri�li�su�da�bih�i�ja�mo�gao�da�od�-go�va�ram�pa�mi�je�do�no�sio�ne�ke�pa�pi�re�da�ja�to�ma�lo�vi�dim,�da�se�ma�lo�kao�ne�-{to�pod�se�tim,�od�no�sno�da�se�upla�{im�i�da�go�vo�rim�ono�{to�wi�ma�od�go�va�-ra.�To�je�sva�ka�ko�bio�pri�ti�sak�na�me�ne,�kao�i�ta�~e�sta�po�zi�va�wa.�I�ja�samzbog�sve�ga�to�ga�ose�}ao�ne�ku�sla�bost,�mo�̀ da�~ak�strah,�jer�sam�imao�uti�sakda�}e�oni�da�ura�de�{ta�su�na�u�mi�li,�bez�ob�zi�ra�na�mo�ju�iz�ja�vu.�Iako�sam�ja�po�-ku�{a�vao�da�se�bra�nim�i�da�im�do�ka�zu�jem�da�ni�su�u�pra�vu.�U�to�ku�ovih�raz�go�-vo�ra�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�su�mi�~e�sto�na�gla�{a�va�li�da�u�po�slu�ko�ji�sam�ja�ra�dio�i{ta�sam�ra�dio,�da�su�mno�gi�za�in�te�re�so�va�ni�za�me�ne�i�za�mo�je�iz�ja�ve,�jer�kaoja�mno�go�znam.�Pa�on�da�je�re�kao�da�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�ni�je�imao�u�me�ne�po�ve�-re�wa,�shva�tio�sam�da�se�igrao�sa�mnom,�mi�sle�}i�da�}e�me�to�po�vre�di�ti�i�da}u�po�~e�ti�da�pri�~am�pro�tiv�[e�{e�qa.

Ja�sam�i�to�shva�tio,�na�rav�no,�kao�vr�stu�wi�ho�vog�pri�ti�ska�i�wi�ho�vog�ne�-ko�rekt�nog�i�ne�po�{te�nog�na�~i�na�ra�da.�Se�}am�se�ka�da�sam�pr�vi�put�do�{ao�ka�-ko�su�po�ku�{a�li�da�us�po�sta�ve�pri�ja�teq�ski�od�nos�sa�mnom.�Nu�di�li�su�mi�sok,ki�se�lu�vo�du.�Ja�sam�to�od�bio,�po�{to�ni�sam�imao�po�ve�re�we�u�wih,�je�dan�put�samsa�mo�po�pio�~a�{u�vo�de,�jer�sam�bio�`e�dan.

Po�sle�po�sled�weg�raz�go�vo�ra�sa�wi�ma�re�kli�su�da�}e�me�ako�bu�de�po�treb�nojo{�zva�ti.�Ma�da�ne�znam�za�{to�bi�me�zva�li�kad�im�ni�{ta�kon�kret�no�ni�sam�re�-38

Page 39: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

kao�iako�su�oni�in�si�sti�ra�li�da�ka�̀ em�i�upor�no�po�na�vqa�li�da�ja�sve�znam.�Jasam�upor�no�po�na�vqao�da�ne�znam�i�da�ono�{to�mi�pre�do�~a�va�ju�znam�sa�mo�iz�no�-vi�na.�Kad�god�sam�re�kao�da�ne�raz�u�mem�{ta�me�pi�ta�ju�pra�vi�li�su�pa�u�zu�od�pet�-na�e�stak�mi�nu�ta,�{to�sam�ja�do�̀ i�vqa�vao�kao�wi�ho�vu�psi�ho�lo�{ku�igru�i�psi�-hi~�ki�pri�ti�sak.�

Bi�lo�je�te�{ko�psi�hi~�ki�iz�dr�̀ a�ti�i�osta�ti�pri�se�ban�pri�li�kom�is�pi�ti�-va�wa�ko�je�je�tra�ja�lo�od�de�set�uju�tru�do�~e�ti�ri�sa�ta�po�pod�ne,�sa�pa�u�zom�za�ru�-~ak.�Sve�je�to�bi�lo�sa�na�me�rom�da�~o�vek�iz�gu�bi�str�pqe�we�i�kon�cen�tra�ci�ju�ida�oni�u�za�pi�snik�mo�gu�da�upi�{u�ono�{to�wi�ma�od�go�va�ra.�To�je�bi�la�pra�va�psi�-hi~�ka�tor�tu�ra,�za�ko�ju�su�mi�da�va�li�dnev�ni�cu�od�30�ma�ra�ka.

U�to�ku�tih�krat�kih�pa�u�za�is�tra�̀ i�teq�je�po�ku�{a�vao�da�mi�se�pri�bli�̀ i,da�se�spri�ja�te�qi�mo,�~ak�mi�je�pred�la�gao�da�iza�|e�mo�uve�~e�da�sku�pa�tra�̀ i�mone�ke�de�voj�ke.�Znao�sam�da�`e�li�i�na�taj�na�~in�da�vr�{i�pri�ti�sak�na�me�ne,�a�jasam�se�ose�}ao�ne�mo�}an,�jer�sve�{to�sam�po�ku�{ao�da�ka�̀ em�on�me�upo�zo�ra�vaoda�oni�ima�ju�do�ku�men�ta�i�da�mo�gu�da�ih�upo�tre�be�pro�tiv�me�ne.�

Ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�i�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska,�24.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�-di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Zo�ran�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi}”.

3. Zdrav�ko�Abra�mo�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�5.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Som�bo�ru�pod�IIOv.�br.�591/2007.

“Ja�Zdrav�ko�(Bla�go�ja)�Abra�mo�vi},�na�di�mak�’Ta�jo’,�ro�|en�21.�ma�ja�1959.�go�-di�ne,�u�me�stu�Gaj�do�bra,�op�{ti�na�Ba~�ka�Pa�lan�ka,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Sr�bi�ja,�sa�pre�bi�-va�li�{tem�u�Som�bo�ru,�ul.�Stan�ka�Op�se�ni�ce�broj�14,�sa�li~�nom�kar�tom�broj261395/04,�JMBG�2105959810013,�iz�da�tom�od�stra�ne�SUP-a�Som�bor,�po�na�ci�o�-nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�pra�vo�slav�ne�ve�ro�i�spo�ve�sti,�dr�̀ a�vqa�nin�Re�pu�bi�ke�Sr�bi�je,go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�sam�tak�si�vo�za~,�sa�pret�hod�nim�za�ni�ma�wem�mi�-li�ci�o�nar�–�po�li�ca�jac,

Iz ja vqu jem:Do�mog�kon�tak�ta�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�do�{lo�je�u�pr�voj�po�lo�-

vi�ni�2005.�go�di�ne,�ta�ko�{to�su�me�pu�tem�mo�bil�nog�te�le�fo�na�kon�tak�ti�ra�li�izkan�ce�la�ri�je�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Se�}am�se�da�je�bio�pe�tak�ka�da�su�me�kon�tak�ti�ra�li�iza�ka�za�li�raz�go�vor�za�uto�rak�ili�sre�du�sle�de�}e�ne�de�qe�za�10.00�~a�so�va.�Na�mo�-je�pi�ta�we�za�{to�sam�po�zvan,�od�go�vo�ri�li�su�mi�da�je�u�pi�ta�wu�in�for�ma�tiv�niraz�go�vor,�na�kon�~e�ga�su�me�oba�ve�sti�li�o�uli�ci�i�bro�ju�kan�ce�la�ri�je�u�Be�o�gra�-du�gde�tre�ba�da�se�ja�vim.�Po�ziv�mi�je�bio�~u�dan,�za�me�ne�iz�ne�na�|u�ju�}i�zbog�~e�-ga�sam�po�oba�vqe�nom�raz�go�vo�ru�po�zvao�ku}�ni�broj�te�le�fo�na�na�ko�ji�se�ja�vi�lamo�ja�su�pru�ga�Ma�ri�na�Abra�mo�vi}�i�ob�ja�sni�la�mi�je�da�me�je�je�dan�~o�vek�zvaoko�ji�se�pred�sta�vio�kao�pri�ja�teq,�te�da�mu�je�ona�na�we�go�vu�mol�bu�da�la�broj�mogmo�bil�nog�te�le�fo�na.�Po�ve�zao�sam�da�se�ra�di�o�istom�~o�ve�ku�ko�ji�je�kon�tak�ti�-rao�i�me�ne�i�da�je,�la�̀ no�se�pred�sta�vqa�ju�}i�na�pre�va�ru�do�{ao�do�mog�bro�ja�mo�-bil�nog�te�le�fo�na.�U�za�ka�za�no�vre�me�do�{ao�sam�na�na�ve�de�nu�adre�su�kan�ce�la�ri�-je�gde�me�je�na�ula�zu�do�~e�kao�voj�nik�UN-a�i�de�voj�ka�ko�ja�go�vo�ri�srp�ski�je�zik.Za�iden�ti�fi�ka�ci�ju�sam�im�dao�pa�so{�ko�ji�su�bez�mog�odo�bre�wa�fo�to�ko�pi�ra�-li,�a�na�mo�ju�pri�med�bu�su�od�go�vo�ri�li�da�su�to�pra�vi�la�Tri�bu�na�la.�De�voj�ka�ko�-ja�me�je�do�~e�ka�la�po�zva�la�me�je�da�kre�nem�za�wom,�{to�sam�i�u~i�nio,�ta�ko�da�meje�uve�la�u�jed�nu�kan�ce�la�ri�ju�na�pr�vom�spra�tu�gde�smo�sa�~e�ka�li�de�se�tak�mi�nu�tako�li�ko�je�tre�ba�lo�da�se�po�ja�vi�je�dan�~o�vek�ra�di�oba�vqa�wa�raz�go�vo�ra.�^o�vek

39

Page 40: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

se�pred�sta�vio�kao�slu�̀ be�nik�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�Ha�gu�–�Pa�o�lo�Pa�sto�re�Sto�hi.Ukrat�ko�mi�je�ob�ja�snio�zbog�~e�ga�sam�po�zvan�i�za�tra�̀ io�od�me�ne�da�od�go�va�ramna�pi�ta�wa.�Po�~et�kom�raz�go�vo�ra�na�po�me�nuo�je�da�sam�po�zvan�kao�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tva�u�pro�ce�su�pro�tiv�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,ali�ka�ko�je�tok�raz�go�vo�ra�od�mi�cao�po�~eo�je�pre�ma�me�ni�da�se�ne�pri�ja�teq�skiod�no�si�uz�pret�wu�da�po�sto�ji�mo�gu}�nost�da�}e�me�po�zva�ti�kao�okri�vqe�nog.�Ovowe�go�vo�po�na�{a�we�po�seb�no�je�do�{lo�do�iz�ra�̀ a�ja�ka�da�sam�se�ja�iz�ja�snio�da�nepri�hva�tam�da�sve�do�~im�u�ko�rist�op�tu�̀ be�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�Slo�-bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a.�Go�spo�din�Pa�sto�re�je�po�ku�{ao�da�ubla�̀ i�si�tu�a�ci�ju�sapo�nu�dom�iz�bo�ra�dr�̀ a�ve�u�ko�joj�}u�sa�svo�jom�po�ro�di�com�̀ i�ve�ti�pod�za�{ti�tomiden�ti�te�ta�sa�zna�~aj�nom�ma�te�ri�jal�nom�po�dr�{kom.�Ja�sam�ovo�shva�tio�kao�do�-dat�ni�pri�ti�sak,�uce�nu�pa�i�pot�ku�pqi�va�we,�a�sve�u�ci�qu�la�̀ nog�sve�do�~e�wapro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a.�Go�spo�din�Pa�sto�re�ni�-je�po�mi�wao�o�kom�iz�no�su�ma�te�ri�jal�ne�po�dr�{ke�se�ra�di,�ali�na�me�ne�je�osta�viouti�sak�da�bi�bio�’{i�ro�ke�ru�ke’�i�da�bi�me�ne�i�mo�ju�po�ro�di�cu�fi�nan�sij�skiobez�be�dio�za�ceo�`i�vot.�Raz�go�vor�je�tra�jao�oko�~e�ti�ri�~a�sa�i�tri�de�set�mi�nu�-ta�i�do�ti~�ni�go�spo�din�je�to�vre�me�is�ko�ri�stio�da�me�na�sve�mo�gu�}e�na�~i�ne�pri�-do�bi�je�za�sve�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Ja�sam�ka�te�go�ri~�no�od�bio�sve�we�go�ve�po�nu�dere�kav�{i�da�ne�ma�te�ce�ne�za�ko�ju�bi�la�̀ no�op�tu�̀ io�bi�lo�ko�ga,�a�po�seb�no�ne�drVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Do�dat�no�me�je�pi�tao�da�li�mi�je�ne�ko�pre�tio�iz�Srp�ske�ra�-di�kal�ne�stran�ke�i�da�li�mi�je�po�zna�to�da�sam�iz�ba�~en�iz�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�nestran�ke?�Na�ovo�pi�ta�we�sam�se�na�sme�jao�i�re�kao�da�mi�ni�ko�ni�je�pre�tio�i�dane�mam�sa�zna�wa�oko�iz�ba�ci�va�wa�iz�stran�ke.�Sve�ovo�{to�sam�do�sa�da�na�veo,�okopo�stu�pa�wa�slu�̀ be�ni�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�pre�ma�me�ni,�shva�tio�sam�kao�sra�~u�natatak�na�mo�ju�li~�nost,�a�sve�u�ci�qu�stva�ra�wa�pred�u�slo�va�za�pro�na�la�̀ e�we�do�-ka�za�ko�ji�bi�ko�ri�sti�li�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvu�u�pro�ce�su�ko�ji�se�vo�di�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa.�Ka�da�je�go�spo�din�Pa�sto�re�uvi�deo�da�we�go�vi�na�po�ri�ni�su�uro�di�liplo�dom,�ustao�je�i�krat�ko�re�kao�da�ovaj�raz�go�vor�sma�tra�za�vr�{e�nim,�a�da�osta�-vqa�mo�gu}�nost�da�me�po�zo�ve�kao�okri�vqe�nog�{to�me�ni�uop�{te�ni�je�bi�lo�ja�-sno.�Ve�ro�vat�no�je�na�ovaj�na�~in�po�ku�{ao�da�mi�omo�gu�}i�do�dat�no�vre�me�za�raz�-mi�{qa�we�pod�ten�zi�jom�stra�ha�za�se�be�i�svo�ju�po�ro�di�cu.�Od�ta�da�pa�na�da�qe�ni�-ko�me�vi�{e�ni�je�kon�tak�ti�rao�iz�Ha�{kog�tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�Ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�-voq�no�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska.�U�Som�bo�ru,�31.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�daoZdrav�ko�Abra�mo�vi}”.

4. Sla�vo�qub�Jo�va�no�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�5.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Som�bo�ru�pod�IIOv.�br.�590/2007.

“Ja�Sla�vo�qub�(Mi�lu�ti�na)�Jo�va�no�vi},�na�di�mak�’Sla�va’,�ro�|en�1.�av�gu�sta1949.�go�di�ne,�u�me�stu�Gor�wi�Mi�la�no�vac,�op�{ti�na�Gor�wi�Mi�la�no�vac,�Re�pu�-bli�ka�Sr�bi�ja,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�Som�bo�ru,�ul.�Pa�ri�ska�broj�12,�sa�li~�nomkar�tom�broj�177301/97,�JMBG�0108949810084,�iz�da�tom�od�stra�ne�SUP-a�Som�-bor,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�pra�vo�slav�ne�ve�ro�i�spo�ve�sti,�dr�̀ a�vqa�nin�Re�pu�-bi�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�sam�pri�vat�ni�pred�u�zet�nik.�

Iz ja vqu jem:Do�mog�kon�tak�ta�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Ha�{kog�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�do�{lo�je�na

sle�de�}i�na�~in:U�ok�to�bru�me�se�cu�2005.�go�di�ne�me�je�po�zva�la�se�kre�ta�ri�ca�iz�Ha�{kog�tri�-

40

Page 41: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

bu�na�la�iz�Be�o�gra�da�i�pred�sta�vi�la�se�kao�Na�ta�{a�ili�Dra�ga�na.�Tom�pri�li�kommi�je�re�kla�da�je�tu�̀ i�lac�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�Pa�o�lo�Pa�sto�re�tra�̀ io�da�raz�-go�va�ra�sa�mnom�s�tim�da�}e�ona�bi�ti�pre�vo�di�lac�i�da�}e�se�taj�raz�go�vor�sni�ma�-ti.�Go�spo�din�Pa�sto�re�me�je�po�zvao�da�do�|em�u�Be�o�grad�na�raz�go�vor�ko�ji�`e�lida�oba�vi�sa�mnom.�Pi�tao�sam�ga�za�raz�log�ali�on�ni�je�hteo�da�mi�od�go�vo�ri.�Upar�na�vra�ta�u�to�ku�ok�to�bra�i�no�vem�bra�me�se�ca�2005.�go�di�ne�zva�li�su�me�te�le�-fo�nom�ali�se�ja�ni�sam�uvek�li~�no�ja�vqao�(ka�da�ni�sam�bio�pri�su�tan)�ne�go�su�seja�vqa�la�mo�ja�de�ca�ili�rad�ni�ci�ko�ji�su�ra�di�li�kod�me�ne.

Pret�po�sled�wi�put�ka�da�su�me�zva�li�iz�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�re�kao�sam�go�-spo�di�nu�Pa�sto�ru�da�mi�pi�sme�no�do�sta�vi�po�ziv�na�{ta�je�on�od�go�vo�rio�da�onito�ne�ra�de.�In�sti�sti�rao�sam�da�po�ve�dem�advo�ka�ta�sa�so�bom�pa�sam�po�sle�parda�na�do�bio�po�ziv�gde�je�pi�sa�lo�da�do�|em�na�raz�go�vor,�da�}e�raz�go�vor�tra�ja�tinaj�ma�we�dva�da�na�i�da�`e�li�da�me�is�pi�ta�u�ve�zi�pri�ku�pqa�wa,�sla�wa�i�vo�|e�wasrp�skih�do�bro�vo�qa�ca�i�za�moj�rad�kao�po�kra�jin�skog�mi�ni�stra�u�ko�a�li�ci�jiSrp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke�i�So�ci�ja�li�sti~�ke�par�ti�je�Sr�bi�je.�Go�spo�di�nu�Pa�-sto�ru�sam�ta�da�re�kao�da�ne�}u�do�}i�jer�sam�iz�ja�vu�dao�eks�pert�skoj�gru�pi�advo�-ka�ta�ko�ji�}e�bi�ti�kon�sul�tan�ti�ili�}e�bi�ti�bra�ni�o�ci�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Na�-po�mi�wem�da�je�go�spo�din�Pa�o�lo�ta�da�bio�ve�o�ma�qut�i�da�mi�je�re�kao�da�on�imana�~i�na�ka�ko�da�me�do�ve�de�do�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.�U�me�|u�vre�me�nu�sam�bio�okome�sec�da�na�u�bol�ni�ci�zbog�wi�ho�vog�stal�nog�mal�tre�ti�ra�wa�gde�sam�uzi�mao�an�-ti�de�pre�si�ve�i�opro�stio�se�od�de�ce�zbog�stra�ha�od�mo�gu�}ih�ak�ci�ja�pri�vo�|e�wa.I�dan�da�nas�imam�no}�ne�mo�re�zbog�wi�ho�vog�ba�ha�tog�i�na�sil�ni~�kog�po�na�{a�wa.Iz�sve�ga�ovo�ga�{to�se�me�ni�de�si�lo�mo�gu�da�za�kqu�~im�da�je�wi�hov�ciq�bio�za�-stra�{i�va�we�i�pri�mo�ra�va�we�na�la�̀ no�sve�do�~e�we�u�pro�ce�su�ko�ji�se�vo�di�pro�-tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�U�Som�bo�ru�31.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jemdo�bro�voq�no�i�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Sla�vo�qub�Jo�va�no�vi}”.

5. Mi�lo�rad�Go�gi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�nau�^e�tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.�br.�2292/07.

“Ja�Mi�lo�rad�(Mu�ha�me�da)�Go�gi},�na�di�mak�Mi�le,�ro�|en�28.�ja�nu�a�ra�1963.�go�-di�ne�u�se�lu�Za�je�~ar,�Op�{ti�na�Lo�zni�ca,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Sr�bi�ja,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{temu�Lo�zni�ci,�ul.�Fi�li�pa�Kqa�ji�}a�br.�123,�sa�li~�nom�kar�tom�broj�177730,�JMBG2801963773617,�iz�da�tom�od�SUP-a�Lo�zni�ca,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�-spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�za�po�-slen�u�obez�be�|e�wu�di�sko�te�ke,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we�bok�ser,�ama�ter,

Iz ja vqu jem:Pr�vi�kon�takt�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�imao�sam�u�no�vem�-

bru�ili�de�cem�bru�2002.�go�di�ne.�Po�{to�ja�re�dov�no�po�sle�tre�nin�ga�svra�}am�uje�dan�re�sto�ran�na�ru�~ak,�jed�nog�da�na�me�po�zvao�vla�snik�re�sto�ra�na�na�moj�mo�-bil�ni�te�le�fon�i�sa�op�{tio�mi�da�me�u�re�sto�ra�nu�~e�ka�ju�ne�ki�qu�di�iz�Ha�ga.�Jata�da�ni�sam�oti�{ao�u�taj�re�sto�ran,�po�sle�sam�sa�znao�da�su�se�kod�ko�no�ba�ra�ras�-pi�ti�va�li�za�me�ne,�da�su�re�kli�da�oni�zna�ju�da�ja�re�dov�no�po�sle�tre�nin�ga�do�la�-zim�tu�na�ru�~ak�i�to�ba{�u�to�vre�me�kad�su�me�oni�~e�ka�li.�

Ko�no�bar�je�to�pre�neo�vla�sni�ku�re�sto�ra�na�ko�ji�je,�po�{to�je�me�ne�oba�ve�-stio�da�me�~e�ka�ju,�pri�{ao�i�raz�go�va�rao�sa�wi�ma.�U�stva�ri,�re�kao�im�je�da�ne`e�li�da�u�we�go�vom�re�sto�ra�nu�bi�lo�ko�ga�sa�~e�ku�ju,�a�oni�su�re�kli�da�sa�mo�ra�desvoj�po�sao�i�da�li�mu�broj�te�le�fo�na�na�ko�ji�bih�ja�tre�ba�lo�da�se�ja�vim,�jer�su,

41

Page 42: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

ka�ko�su�mu�re�kli,�zna�li�da�smo�mi�pri�ja�te�qi.�Ta�da�su�u�tom�re�sto�ra�nu�bi�la�trimu�{kar�ca�i�`e�na�pre�vo�di�lac.�Po�ru�~i�li�su�mi�da�im�se�ja�vim,�da�bi�tre�ba�loda�raz�go�va�ra�ju�sa�mnom�i�da�je�to�u�mom�in�te�re�su.�Raz�mi�{qao�sam�da�li�da�imse�ja�vim�i�on�da�sam�za�mo�lio�jed�nog�pri�ja�te�qa�da�po�zo�ve�na�taj�broj�sa�jav�ne�go�-vor�ni�ce.�To�je�bio�broj�te�le�fo�na�u�Ho�lan�di�ji,�u�Ha�gu.�Taj�moj�pri�ja�teq�je�re�-kao�da�zo�ve�iz�Lo�zni�ce,�da�se�zo�ve�Mi�lo�rad�Go�gi},�da�ne�ma�nov�ca�za�raz�go�vori�da�oni�po�zo�vu�na�broj�ko�ji�im�je�osta�vio.�Od�mah�su�po�zva�li�i�re�kli�da�bi�tre�-ba�lo�da�se�vi�di�mo,�da�raz�go�va�ra�mo,�da�sam�ja�osum�wi�~en�za�ne�ke�rat�ne�zlo�~i�-ne,�ali�da�o�to�me�ne��mo�gu�da�raz�go�va�ra�ju�te�le�fo�nom.�Moj�pri�ja�teq�je�re�kao�dase�ja�ve�su�tra�dan�po�no�vo�i�da�}e�mo�se�do�go�vo�ri�ti.�Oni�su�ta�da�re�kli�da�bi�ramme�sto�i�vre�me�su�sre�ta.�Ja�sam�ta�da�`i�veo�u�Zvor�ni�ku,�ali�sam�do�{ao�u�Lo�zni�-cu�da�bih�se�ja�ja�vio�na�te�le�fon�kad�bu�du�zva�li.�Kad�su�se�ja�vi�li,�re�kao�sam�dazo�vu�za�sat�vre�me�na,�jer�sam�za�u�zet.�U�do�go�vo�re�no�vre�me�su�se�ja�vi�li�i�ja�samre�kao�da�do�|u�za�dva�da�na�u�onaj�isti�re�sto�ran�gde�su�me�pr�vi�put�~e�ka�li.�Do�-{li�su�u�za�ka�za�no�vre�me,�je�dan�Nor�ve�̀ a�nin�ko�ji�je�re�kao�da�je�{ef�ti�ma�i�we�-gov�prav�ni�sa�vet�nik,�Pa�ki�sta�nac.�Sa�wi�ma�je�bi�la�̀ e�na�pre�vo�di�lac,�na�vod�noiz�Be�o�gra�da.�Kad�smo�se�sre�li,�oni�su�re�kli�da�ne�bi�mno�go�pri�~a�li,�oni�}eme�ni�da�po�ka�̀ u�od�re�|e�nu�do�ku�men�ta�ci�ju.�Po�ka�zi�va�li�su�mi�do�ku�men�ta�sa�mo�-jim�pot�pi�som,�spi�sak�je�di�ni�ce�za�spe�ci�jal�ne�na�me�ne�MUP-a�Re�pu�bli�ke�Srp�-ske,�plat�ne�spi�sko�ve,�za�du�̀ e�we�na�o�ru�̀ a�wa�i�sli~�no.�Po�tvr�dio�sam�da�su�toza�i�sta�mo�ji�pot�pi�si.�Sve�su�bi�la�ori�gi�nal�na�do�ku�men�ta,�a�ja�sam�imao�sa�zna�-wa�da�su�ha�{ki�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�do�la�zi�li�u�Cen�tar�jav�ne�bez�bed�no�sti�Zvor�niki�da�su�im�vla�sti�pre�da�le�svu�do�ku�men�ta�ci�ju.�Taj�pr�vi�su�sret�tra�jao�je�oko�trii�po�sa�ta.�Sop�{ti�li�su�mi�da�sam�ja�osum�wi�~en�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne�po�ko�mand�-noj�od�go�vor�no�sti,�kao�{ef�je�di�ni�ce�ko�ja�je�na�vod�no�po�~i�ni�la�mno�ge�zlo�~i�ne.Pi�ta�li�su�ot�kud�mi�iz�Lo�zni�ce�u�Zvor�ni�ku�i�re�kli�su�da�oni�ima�ju�in�for�ma�-ci�ju�da�smo�ra�di�ka�li,�{to�sam�ja�ne�gi�rao�i�ob�ja�snio�sam�da�je�mo�ja�je�di�ni�capri�pa�da�la�Ar�ka�no�voj�gar�di�i�da�ni�je�bi�lo�stra�na~�ki�opre�de�qe�nih�qu�di.�Pi�-ta�li�su�me�da�li�sam�ja�spre�man�da�se�po�ja�vim�u�Ha�gu,�opet�su�re�kli�da�sam�osum�-wi�~en,�ali�da�ni�su�si�gur�ni�da�li�}u�bi�ti�op�tu�̀ en.�Re�kao�sam�da�ne�tre�ba�dame�hap�se,�ne�ka�po�{a�qu�po�ziv�i�sva�ka�ko�}u�se�po�ja�vi�ti.�Oba�ve�sti�li�su�me�da�}eo�to�me�od�lu�~i�va�ti�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo,�a�da�oni�sa�mo�is�tra�̀ u�ju.�Dru�gi�su�sret�bio�jepo�sle�sve�ga�ne�ko�li�ko�da�na.�Zva�li�su�me�i�tra�̀ i�li�da�se�po�no�vo�vi�di�mo.�I�tajdru�gi�raz�go�vor�je�tra�jao�oko�tri�sa�ta.�Re�kli�su�mi�da�su�utvr�di�li�da�sam�biora�wen�u�vre�me�zlo�~i�na�ko�je�oni�is�tra�̀ u�ju�i�da�me�to�spa�{a�va,�ali�da�bi�ipakbi�la�po�dig�nu�ta�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tiv�me�ne�da�ni�sam�pri�stao�na�raz�go�vor�sa�wi�-ma.�U�tom�dru�gom�raz�go�vo�ru�oni�su�in�si�sti�ra�li�na�to�me�da�ja�ka�̀ em�da�smo�mibi�li�do�bro�voq�ci�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke.�Ja�sam�upor�no�po�na�vqao�da�ne�-ma�mo�ve�ze�ni�sa�Srp�skom�ra�di�kal�nom�stran�kom�ni�sa�Vo�ji�sla�vom�[e�{e�qem.Po�{to�su�oni�to�upor�no�po�na�vqa�li�me�ni�je�bi�lo�ja�sno�da�oni�u�stva�ri�ho�}eme�ne�da�ube�de�da�ja�ka�̀ em�da�smo�ima�li�ve�zu�sa�[e�{e�qem,�da�smo�od�we�ga�pri�-ma�li�na�re�|e�wa.�To�sam�ose�}ao�to�kom�ce�log�raz�go�vo�ra,�jer�su�se�~e�sto�na�tovra�}a�li,�bu�kval�no�in�si�sti�ra�li,�ma�da�in�di�rekt�no.�Ja�sam�od�mah�po�sle�ovograz�go�vo�ra�re�kao�ne�kim�svo�jim�pri�ja�te�qi�ma�da�mi�se�~i�ni�da�tra�̀ e�ne�{topro�tiv�[e�{e�qa�i�da�mi�se�~i�ni�da�mu�pri�pre�ma�ju�op�tu�̀ ni�cu.�Ras�pi�ti�va�li�suse�za�Ran�ki�}a,�go�vo�ri�li�da�je�on�ra�di�kal,�da�je�on�na�ma�bio�{ef.�Imao�sam�jo{42

Page 43: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

je�dan�raz�go�vor�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma,�ne�gde�pred�No�vu�go�di�nu,�ka�da�samzva�ni~�no�pot�pi�sao�za�pi�sni�ke,�po�{to�sa�pr�va�dva�raz�go�vo�ra�ni�sam�ni�{ta�pot�-pi�si�vao.�Ni�sam�ni�pri�me�tio�da�su�sni�ma�li�raz�go�vor,�sa�mo�su�pi�sa�li�ne�ke�be�-le�{ke�dok�smo�raz�go�va�ra�li.�Taj�tre�}i�put�su�do�ne�li�lap�top�i�sa�we�ga�mi�pro�-~i�ta�li�iz�ja�vu�sa�pret�hod�na�dva�sa�stan�ka.�Ja�sam�imao�ne�ke�pri�med�be�na�za�pi�-snik,�oni�su�to�is�pra�vi�li�i�ja�sam�za�pi�snik�pot�pi�sao.�Me�|u�tim�ni�su�mi�da�linije�dan�pri�me�rak�za�pi�sni�ka,�{to�mi��je�ve�o�ma�~ud�no.�Pi�ta�li�su�me�da�li�samspre�man�da�se�po�ja�vim�kao�sve�dok�u�Ha�gu,�ka�da�sam�pi�tao�pro�tiv�ko�ga,�re�kli�suda�to�ni�je�bit�no.�Re�kao�sam�da�ja�ne�be�̀ im�ni�od�~e�ga,�ali�ne�}u�da�me�hap�se.Sva�kom�po�zi�vu�}u�se�oda�zva�ti�i�uvek�}u�go�vo�ri�ti�sa�mo�isti�nu.�Iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�-bro�voq�no�bez�ika�kvih�pri�ti�sa�ka.�U�Ze�mu�nu,�27.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vudao�Mi�lo�rad�Go�gi}”.

6. Zo�ran�Su�bo�ti}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�13.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�uOp�{tin�skom�su�du�u�No�vom�Sa�du�pod�OV1.�br.�7350/2007.

“Ja�Zo�ran�(Stan�ka)�Su�bo�ti},�ro�|en�27.�apri�la�1958.�go�di�ne�u�Ben�kov�cu,Op�{ti�na�Ben�ko�vac,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Hr�vat�ska,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�No�vom�Sa�du,ul.�Mar�ka�Kra�qe�vi�}a�49,�sa�li~�nom�kar�tom�br.�587788,�JMBG�2704958773638iz�da�ta�od�SUP-a�No�vi�Sad,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�-slav�na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�re�pu�-bli~�ki�tr�̀ i�{ni�in�spek�tor,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we�pri�vat�ni�pred�u�zet�nik,

Iz ja vqu jem:Imao�sam�tri�pu�ta�kon�takt�sa�kan�ce�la�ri�jom�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�-

du�i�to�dva�pu�ta�u�ju�nu�2003.�go�di�ne�i�je�dan�put�u�sep�tem�bru.�̂ e�tvr�ti�put,�19.�ja�-nu�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�po�zva�li�su�me�na�{i�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi.�

Pre�ne�go�{to�su�stu�pi�li�u�kon�takt�sa�mnom,�zva�li�su�te�le�fo�nom�de�se�takpu�ta�na�ku}�ni�broj,�ali�se�ja�ni�sam�ja�vqao�na�te�le�fon,�a�uku�}a�ni�su�mi�pre�no�-si�li�da�me�tra�̀ e�ne�ki�stran�ci.�U�isto�vre�me�imao�sam�~e�ste�po�zi�ve�na�moj�mo�-bil�ni�te�le�fon,�ali�se�ni�sam�ja�vqao�jer�je�broj�sa�ko�jeg�sti�̀ e�po�ziv�bio�ne�i�-den�ti�fi�ko�van.�

Ka�da�sam�se�ja�ja�vio,�oni�su�se�pred�sta�vi�li�i�re�kli�su�da�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qiHa�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�i�da�`e�le�sa�mnom�da�oba�ve�raz�go�vor.�I�on�da�sam�ja�pr�viput�oti�{ao�kod�wih�na�De�di�we,�da�ne�bi�do�la�zi�li�ku�}i�po�me�ne�da�mi�tra�u�mi�-ra�ju�po�ro�di�cu.�Za�dr�̀ a�li�su�me�dva�da�na.�Raz�go�va�ra�li�smo�sko�ro�ne�pre�kid�nood�osam�sa�ti�uju�tru�do�de�vet�na�est�uve�~e.�Sve�vre�me�su�se�ras�pi�ti�va�li�o�Zvor�-ni�ku�i�o�mo�joj�ulo�zi�ta�mo,�a�po�ka�za�li�su�mi�po�de�beo�do�si�je�gde�su�na�vod�no�iz�-ja�ve�ra�ni�jih�sve�do�ka.�Se�}am�se�da�je�is�tra�̀ i�teq�bio�ne�ki�To�mas�Ja�ker�man,�apre�vo�di�lac�de�voj�ka�ko�ja�se�zva�la�Vo�ji�sla�va.�Od�mah�sam�pi�tao�u�kom�svoj�stvu`e�le�da�me�sa�slu�{a�ju,�da�li�sam�u�svoj�stvu�op�tu�̀ e�nog,�po�ten�ci�jal�nog�op�tu�̀ e�-nog�ili�sve�do�ka.�

Oni�ka�̀ u:�’Ima�mo�mi�za�vas�kon�tra�pi�ta�we,�da�li�ste�vi�Zo�ran�Su�bo�ti}ko�man�dant�{ta�ba�u�apri�lu�me�se�cu�1992.�go�di�ne�u�Zvor�ni�ku.’�Re�kao�sam�da�je�-sam.�On�da�su�po�la�sa�ta�pri�~a�li�ka�ko�oni�vo�de�pro�ces�u�Ha�gu�da�bi�me�na�ve�lina�za�kqu�~ak�da�oni�go�vo�re�o�pro�ce�su�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�da�od�me�neo~e�ku�ju�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ be�u�tom�pro�ce�su.�Ja�sno�sam�im�sta�vio�do�zna�wada�to�ne�̀ e�lim,�i�da�sam�sve�stan�da�mo�gu�pro�tiv�mo�je�vo�qe�da�me�od�ve�du�u�Hag,ali�sam�ih�upo�zo�rio�da�bih�jav�no�o�to�me�oba�ve�stio�sud�sko�ve�}e�ve}�pri�li�kom

43

Page 44: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

pr�vog�su�sre�ta�u�sud�ni�ci�i�da�bih�po�sle�to�ga�go�vo�rio�isti�nu�o�na�{em�pri�su�stvuu�Zvor�ni�ku,�i�da�to�ne�bi�bi�lo�ono�{to�oni�o~e�ku�ju.�

Me�|u�tim,�oni�ni�su�od�u�sta�ja�li,�po�ka�zi�va�li�su�mi�iz�ja�ve�dru�gih�sve�do�ka�ko�-ji�su�na�vo�di�li�da�sam�ih�ja,�kao�ko�man�dant�[ta�ba�oku�pqao�i�po�ka�zi�va�li�su�mido�ku�men�ta�sa�mo�jim�pot�pi�som.�Ja�sam�ob�ja�{wa�vao�da�smo�mi�bi�li�elit�na�je�di�-ni�ca�JNA�i�da�sam�ja�oti�{ao�u�Ma�li�Zvor�nik�u�ka�sar�nu�na�kon�{to�sam�do�biopo�ziv�za�re�zer�vni�sa�stav,�da�smo�tu�za�du�̀ i�li�rat�nu�opre�mu�i�su�tra�dan�pre�ba�-~e�ni�u�Zvor�nik.�

Oni�su�upor�no�po�ku�{a�va�li�da�me�ube�de�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa.�Ob�ja�{wa�va�li�su�da�ne�ma�raz�lo�ga�da�ne�sve�do�~im,�jer�oni�zna�ju�da�javi�{e�ni�sam�u�Srp�skoj�ra�di�kal�noj�stran�ci,�re�kli�su�i�da�ima�ju�in�for�ma�ci�juda�sam�u�su�ko�bu�sa�[e�{e�qem�i�ta�ko�su�hte�li�da�vaq�da�iza�zo�vu�moj�gnev�i�da�meta�ko�pri�vo�le�na�ne�{to�{to�ja�ni�ka�ko�ne�`e�lim.�Ob�ja�snio�sam�da�ni�sam�ni�sakim�u�su�ko�bu�i�da�ni�to�ni�bi�lo�{ta�dru�go�ne�mo�̀ e�da�pro�me�ni�mo�ju�od�lu�ku�dani�po�ko�ju�ce�nu�ne�̀ e�lim�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ be.�Ta�da�su�mi�re�kli�da�}e�oniza�{ti�ti�i�me�ne�i�mo�ju�po�ro�di�cu�ako�pri�hva�tim�da�bu�dem�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok.To�sam�ka�te�go�ri~�ki�od�bio,�re�kao�sam�da�i,�ako�me�na�si�lu�od�ve�du�u�Hag,�ne�sme�-ju�da�me�za�{ti�te�jer�bih�ja�iz�neo�da�je�to�u~i�we�no�mi�mo�mo�je�vo�qe.�To�im�ni�jeod�go�va�ra�lo,�{to�je�o~i�gle�dan�do�kaz�da�oni�ne�tra�ga�ju�za�isti�nom,�ve}�za�sve�do�-ci�ma�ko�ji�}e�go�vo�ri�ti�ono�{to�im�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�na�re�di.

^e�sto�su�me�pi�ta�li�za�{to�ja�ne�}u�da�bu�dem�wi�hov�sve�dok,�da�li�se�ja�topla�{im�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke.�Stal�no�su�to�in�si�sti�ra�li�i�po�na�vqa�li�dane�tre�ba�ni�ko�ga�da�se�pla�{im,�jer�}u�kao�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok�ima�ti�pu�nu�za�{ti�-tu�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.�Go�vo�ri�li�su�da�ne�raz�u�me�ju�za�{to�ja�`e�lim�da�za�{ti�-tim�[e�{e�qa�kad�[e�{eq�ne�vo�di�ra�~u�na�o�me�ni.�To�je�bio�kla�si�~an�psi�ho�lo�-{ki�pri�ti�sak,�ra�~u�na�li�su�vaq�da�da�}e�mi�po�vre�di�ti�su�je�tu�i�ta�ko�pri�si�li�tina�ne�{to�{to�sam�upor�no�od�bi�jao.�To�je�bio�kla�si�~an,�per�fi�dan,�pri�ti�sak�sawi�ho�ve�stra�ne.�Po�{to�ni�su�us�pe�li�da�me�ube�de,�tre�}i�put�se�po�ja�vio�ne�ki�Ro�-}a�iz�Ri�ma�i�pred�sta�vio�se�kao�glav�ni�is�tra�̀ i�teq.�On�je�pro�me�nio�tak�ti�ku,tru�dio�se�da�bu�de�fin�i�kul�tu�ran,�ali�je�sve�vre�me�i�on�in�si�sti�rao�na�to�me�dame�ube�di�da�bu�dem�wi�hov�sve�dok�pro�tiv�[e�{e�qa.�De�set�pu�ta�sam�in�si�sti�raoda�une�su�u�za�pi�snik�da�ne�`e�lim�svo�je�voq�no�da�idem�u�Hag�kao�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�-la�{tva�{to� su� od�bi�ja�li� sa� obra�zlo�̀ e�wem� da� oni� ima�ju� dru�ga�~i�ju�for�mu.Osim�{to�su�mi�obe�}a�va�li�za�{ti�tu�iden�ti�te�ta,�ja�sno�su�mi�sta�vqa�li�u�iz�gledi�to�da�}e�oni�da�se�po�bri�nu�za�mo�ju�i�eg�zi�sten�ci�ju�mo�je�po�ro�di�ce.�

To�{to�su�me�go�to�vo�ne�pre�kid�no�is�pi�ti�va�li�vi�{e�od�de�set�sa�ti�do�̀ i�veosam�kao�psi�ho�lo�{ki�pri�ti�sak�i�wi�ho�vu�o~i�gled�nu�na�me�ru�da�me�de�ko�cen�tri�-{u�i�da�iz�gu�bim�str�pqe�we.�Na�isti�na�~in�sam�do�̀ i�veo�i�to�{to�su�mi�istopi�ta�we�po�na�vqa�li�vi�{e�pu�ta�u�raz�li�~i�tim�vre�men�skim�pe�ri�o�di�ma,�po�se�banvid�pri�ti�ska�je�bio�ka�da�me�po�sle�pet,�{est�sa�ti,�ona�ko�iz�nu�re�nog�i�iz�mo�re�-nog�pi�ta�ju�da�im�ob�ja�snim�ne�{to�{to�sam�re�kao�ra�no�uju�tru,�jer�im�je�na�vod�noosta�lo�ne�{to�ne�ja�sno.�Ja�sno�je�da�su�sa�mo�hte�li�da�pro�ve�re�da�li�}u�da�ti�istiod�go�vor�na�isto�pi�ta�we.�

Ja�sam�se�bu�nio�{to�to�is�pi�ti�va�we�tra�je�ta�ko�du�go�u�kon�ti�nu�i�te�tu�i�tra�-`io�da�se�pre�ki�ne.�Oni�bi�ta�da�na�pra�vi�li�sa�mo�krat�ku�pa�u�zu�od�de�se�tak�mi�-nu�ta.�Ose�}ao�sam�se�kao�u�kon�cen�tra�ci�o�nom�lo�go�ru.�44

Page 45: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Od�bio�sam�da�pot�pi�{em�za�pi�snik�za�to�{to�ni�ka�ko�ni�su�hte�li�da�u�za�pi�-snik�une�su�moj�iz�ri�~it�stav�da�u�Hag�ne�}u�oti�}i�do�bro�voq�no.�Oni�su�in�si�sti�-ra�li�da�pot�pi�{em�za�pi�snik,�ube�|u�ju�}i�me�da�tu�mo�ju�pri�med�bu�ne�mo�gu�une�tizbog�pro�ce�du�re.�Po�sled�wi�put�ka�da�su�me�is�pi�ti�va�li�da�li�su�mi�je�dan�pri�me�-rak�za�pi�sni�ka.�Ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�i�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska.�U�Ze�mu�-nu,�25.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Zo�ran�Su�bo�ti}.”.

7. Jo�vo�Osto�ji}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�16.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u^e�tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�VOv.�br.�383/07.

“Ja�Jo�vo�(Alek�se)�Osto�ji},�ro�|en�3.�ja�nu�a�ra�1952.�go�di�ne,�u�Pri�gre�vi�ci,Op�{ti�na�Apa�tin,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Sr�bi�ja,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�Pri�gre�vi�ci,�ul.Ni�ne�Ma�ra�ko�vi�}a�br.�7,�sa�li~�nom�kar�tom�broj�83380,�JMBG�0301952810073,iz�da�ta�od�SUP-A�Apa�tin,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�-na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�vi�{i�re�-fe�rent,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we�ma�ti�~ar,

Iz ja vqu jem:Mo�je�kon�tak�te�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�de�taq�no�sam�opi�-

sao�u�svo�joj�kwi�zi�’Ha�{ki�sve�dok’.�Pr�vi�put�su�me�zva�li�te�le�fo�nom�ku�}i�po�-~et�kom�av�gu�sta�2002.go�di�ne.�Su�pru�ga�je�re�kla�da�ni�sam�ku�}i,�pa�su�osta�vi�li�po�-ru�ku�da�}e�se�ja�vi�ti�istog�da�na�oko�16�~a�so�va�i�da�oba�ve�zno�bu�dem�tu.�Ja�vi�li�suse�u�za�ka�za�no�vre�me�i�re�kli�da�bi�tre�ba�lo�da�do�|em�na�raz�go�vor�u�pro�sto�ri�jeHa�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Re�kli�su�da�}e�to�tra�ja�ti�dva,�tri�da�na,�da�}udo�bi�ti�dnev�ni�ce�od�po�150�evra�i�da�}e�mi�oni�obez�be�di�ti�pre�no�}i�{te�i�hra�-nu.�Re�kao�sam�da�ne�}u�do�}i�na�taj�raz�go�vor,�ako�zva�ni~�ni�or�ga�ni�mo�je�ze�mqe�ni�-su�sa�tim�upo�zna�ti.�Re�kli�su�da�su�zva�ni~�no�po�sla�li�do�pis�pre�ko�ta�da�{weg�Sa�-ve�znog�mi�ni�star�stva�prav�de.�Usko�ro�sam�do�bio�do�pis�sa�pot�pi�som�Ne�boj�{e[ar�ki�}a,�po�mo}�ni�ka�sa�ve�znog�mi�ni�stra�prav�de.�U�me�|u�vre�me�nu�zva�li�su�me�i20.�av�gu�sta�2002.�go�di�ne�i�ta�da�sam�od�bio�raz�go�vor�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma.Is�tra�̀ i�teq�Pa�o�lo�Stro�ci�bio�je�ve�o�ma�upo�ran.�Zvao�je�i�15.�sep�tem�bra�dapro�ve�ri�da�li�sam�do�bio�po�ziv�od�Mi�ni�star�stva�prav�de.�Re�kao�sam�da�sam�do�-bio�po�ziv�i�od�mi�ni�star�stva�i�iz�ha�{ke�kan�ce�la�ri�je�i�da�tre�ba�da�se�ja�vim�19.sep�tem�bra�u�9�~a�so�va�u�uli�cu�Je�vre�ma�Gru�ji�}a�11�u�Be�o�gra�du.

Oti�{ao�sam�u�za�ka�za�no�vre�me�na�taj�raz�go�vor.�Su�sret�je�bio�ne�pri�ja�tan,ve}�na�ka�pi�ji�po�~e�li�su�da�me�pre�tre�sa�ju,�mo�rao�sam�da�izu�jem�ci�pe�le,�ski�nu�lisu�me,�skroz�su�me�pre�tre�sli,�na�{ta�sam�ja�re�a�go�vao�i�re�kao�da�sam�do�{ao�sa�-mo�na�in�for�ma�tiv�ni�raz�go�vor�i�da�ne�raz�u�mem�{ta�se�de�{a�va.�Od�mah�se�tu�po�-ja�vi�la�`e�na�ko�ja�pre�vo�di�i�re�kla�je�da�to�ta�ko�mo�ra�bi�ti.�I�on�da�su�mi�sve�testva�ri�vra�ti�li�i�pu�sti�li�me�da�pro�|em.�Oti�{li�smo�go�re�u�jed�nu�pro�sto�ri�jui�tu�sam�upo�znao�Pa�o�la�Stro�ci�ja�i�jed�nog�Nem�ca�~i�je�ime�ni�sam�za�pam�tio,�ako�ji�je�bio�sa�wim�stal�no.�Da�li�su�mi�od�mah�sto�li�cu�da�sed�nem�i�po�~e�li�da�mipri�~a�ju�ka�ko�oni�svo�jim�sve�do�ci�ma�obez�be�|u�ju�da�slo�bod�no�pri�~a�ju,�da�mo�gu�daodu�u�dru�gu�ze�mqu.�On�da�su�me�ni�di�rekt�no�po�nu�di�li�da�iza�be�rem�ze�mqu�u�ko�-ju�`e�lim�da�odem,�po�nu�di�li�su�mi�Ka�na�du,�Austra�li�ju,�Ne�ma~�ku,�Ho�lan�di�ju,Bel�gi�ju,�Fran�cu�sku�ili�En�gle�sku.�Re�kli�su�da�se�ni�~e�ga�ne�pla�{im,�ako�bu�demimao�bi�lo�ka�kvih�pro�ble�ma,�oni�}e�i�me�ne�i�po�ro�di�cu�pre�ba�ci�ti�u�jed�nu�odovih�ze�ma�qa,�ako�tre�ba�i�lik�}e�da�mi�iz�me�ne,�bi�}u�fi�nan�sij�ski�obez�be�|en.Ja�sno�su�re�kli�da�}e�sve�to�da�mi�obez�be�de,�ako�od�go�vo�rim�na�pi�ta�wa�ko�ja�mi

45

Page 46: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

oni�po�sta�ve�i�to�ka�sni�je�po�sve�do�~im�u�Ha�gu.�Na�isti�na�~in�su�mi�po�nu�di�li�dabu�dem�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok.�Od�bio�sam,�za�{to�bih�bio�za�{ti�}en,�ako�}u�go�vo�ri�-ti�isti�nu.�Re�kao�mi�ja�da�nas�dvo�ji�ca�mo�̀ e�mo�da�bu�de�mo�pri�ja�te�qi�za�to�{toima�mo�istog�ne�pri�ja�te�qa,�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�I�on�da�je�po�~eo�psi�hi~�ki�pri�-ti�sak�i�ube�|i�va�we,�ka�ko�je�me�ne�[e�{eq�iz�ba�cio�iz�stran�ke,�ka�ko�mi�stran�kani�je�po�ma�ga�la�ka�da�mi�je�bi�lo�naj�te�̀ e,�znao�je�~ak�da�u�jed�nom�pe�ri�o�du�ni�samimao�od�~e�ga�da�̀ i�vim�i�pod�se�tio�da�me�ta�da�Stran�ka�osta�vi�la�na�ce�di�lu.�Od�-bio�sam�da�o�to�me�go�vo�rim�i�re�kao�da�[e�{eq�ne�mo�̀ e�bi�ti�moj�ne�pri�ja�teq,ta�da�mi�je�Pa�o�lo�Stro�ci�re�kao�da�sam�ja�u�stva�ri�po�zvan�zbog�sve�do�~e�wa�u�pro�-ce�su�pro�tiv�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,�iako�je�sve�vre�me�go�vo�rio�o�[e�{e�qu�iSrp�skoj�ra�di�kal�noj�stran�ci.�U�po�zi�vu�ko�ji�sam�do�bio�ni�je�bi�lo�na�zna�~e�no{ta�}e�bi�ti�pred�met�raz�go�vo�ra.

Ta�da�su�po�~e�li�sa�kon�kret�nim�pi�ta�wi�ma�oko�or�ga�ni�zo�va�wa�do�bro�vo�qa�caSrp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke�i�u�to�ku�raz�go�vo�ra�sva�ki�~as�su�na�gla�{a�va�li�daslo�bod�no�od�go�va�ram,�da�ne�tre�ba�ni�~eg�da�se�pla�{im,�jer�sam�za�{ti�}en�i�da�umo�joj�ze�mqi�ni�ko�ne�sme�da�me�di�ra.Uto�ku�jed�ne�krat�ke�pa�u�ze�Stro�ci�me�je�pi�-tao�u�ko�joj�ze�mqi�bih�vo�leo�da�`i�vim.�Re�kao�sam�da�vo�lim�Ka�na�du�i�Austra�-li�ju.�I�on�da�mi�je�on�re�kao�da�bih�mo�gao�ta�mo�da�odem�pod�jed�nim�uslo�vom,�a�tozna�~i�da�ka�̀ em,�ono�{to�bi�wi�ma�od�go�va�ra�lo.�A�ja�sam�re�kao,�do�bro�o�tom�}e�-mo�ka�sni�je�po�pri�~a�ti,�pa�se�mo�̀ e�mo�i�do�go�vo�ri�ti.�Po�no�vo�su�me�zva�li�po�slejed�no�me�sec�da�na,�ta�~an�da�tum�na�pi�sao�sam�u�kwi�zi.�Pred�la�ga�li�su�mi�da�sesret�nem�sa�Flo�rans�Art�man,�{to�sam�od�bio,�a�oni�su�me�ube�|i�va�li�ka�ko�je�onale�pa�i�pri�vla~�na�̀ e�na�i�da�bih�bar�zbog�to�ga�tre��bao�da�raz�go�va�ram�sa�wom.�Ume�|u�vre�me�nu�vi�{e�pu�ta�je�zva�la�`e�na�ko�ja�je�bi�la�pre�vo�di�lac�da�me�pi�ta�dali�imam�ika�kvih�pro�ble�ma,�da�li�me�ne�ko�di�ra,�te�da�su�oni�stal�no�tu�pri�sut�-ni�i�da�me�ne�ko�nad�gle�da.�To�mi�je�stvo�ri�lo�do�dat�ni�pri�ti�sak�i�strah.

U�jed�nom�raz�go�vo�ru�pre�vo�di�lac�mi�je�re�kla�da�bi�u�Be�o�grad�do�{ao�Pa�o�-lo�Po�sto�re�da�raz�go�va�ra�mo�u�ve�zi�sa�pre�se�qe�wem�mo�je�po�ro�di�ce�u�ze�mqu�ko�-ju�sam�iza�be�rem.�Oti�{ao�sam�na�taj�raz�go�vor.�Po�sto�re�je�re�kao�da�je�zbog�me�-ne�do�{ao�di�rekt�no�iz�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�i�da,�ako�ja�we�mu�ka�̀ em�sve�{toznam�i�pot�kre�pim�op�tu�̀ ni�cu�pro�tiv�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�mo�ja�de�ca�mo�guod�mah�da�idu�u�ze�mqu�ko�ju�iza�be�rem.

Shva�tio�sam�da�spre�ma�ju�la�̀ nu�op�tu�̀ ni�cu�i�ta�da�sam�mu�re�kao�sle�de�}e:’Go�spo�di�ne,�va�{e�po�nu�de�me�ne�ne�in�te�re�su�ju,�vi�ste�je�dan�obi�~an�la�̀ ov�i�pre�-va�rant,�{ta�vi�mi�sli�te�ta�ko�da�osu�|u�je�te�~a�sne�qu�de,�a�ova�mo�da�vr�{i�te�pri�-ti�sak�na�me�ne�na�je�dan�pod�mu�kao�na�~in�obe�}a�wi�ma�da�bih�ja�la�̀ no�op�tu�̀ iodr�[e�{e�qa�i�svo�ju�ze�mqu.’�Re�kao�sam�mu�da�me�vi�{e�ni�ka�da�ne�zo�ve.�Ipak�mezvao.�Bi�lo�je�to�25.�no�vem�bra�2002.�go�di�ne.�U�tom�raz�go�vo�ru�mi�je�di�rekt�nopre�tio�da�}u�bi�ti�ubi�jen�za�to�{to�ne�}u�da�sa�ra�|u�jem�sa�Ha�{kim�tri�bu�na�lom.Re�kao�je�da�}u�oti�}i�u�Hag�`iv�ili�mr�tav,�a�ako�do�|em�`iv�da�se�ne�}u�ni�vra�-ti�ti,�jer�}e�me�sme�sti�ti�u�jed�nu�ma�lu�pro�sto�ri�ju,�gde�je�po�sta�vqe�no�u�po�do�ve,pla�fo�ne�i�zi�do�ve�ta~�no�100�re�flek�to�ra.�Svi�ti�re�flek�to�ri�se�cen�tri�ra�ju�ta�-ko�da�si�ja�ju�~o�ve�ku�u�o~i,�i�tu�}u�da�pro�vo�dim�da�ne�i�sa�te,�ali�me�ni�ko�ni�{tane�}e�pi�ta�ti.�Re�kao�je�da�}u�mo�li�ti�Bo�ga�da�me�ne�{to�pi�ta�ju�i�da�}u�sam�da�tra�-`im�da�go�vo�rim�i�da�}u�ta�da�pot�pi�sa�ti�sve�{to�su�oni�pri�pre�mi�li�pro�tiv�drVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Na�kra�ju�mi�je�re�kao,�ako�do�|em�ta�mo�da�}u�da�za�vr�{im,kao�{to�je�za�vr�{io�Dok�ma�no�vi},�da�}u�da�se�obe�sim�kao�i�on,�da�se�`iv�ne�}u46

Page 47: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

vra�ti�ti�iz�Ha�ga.�In�te�re�sant�no�je�da�mi�ni�su�da�li�pri�me�rak�iz�ja�ve�ko�ju�sam�dao�pred�ha�-

{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma.�Pro�~i�ta�li�su�mi�je�za�tri�mi�nu�ta�i�re�kli�da�je�u�pi�ta�-wu�14�li�sto�va,�{ta�su�sve�tu�na�pi�sa�li�ja�poj�ma�ne�mam�i�za�to�sam�re�kao�da�ta�-kvu�iz�ja�vu�ne�}u�pot�pi�sa�ti,�pa�sam�sa�mo�na�pr�voj�stra�ni�na�pra�vio�bu�kval�no�jed�-nu�{kra�bo�ti�nu,�a�oni�su�na�sva�kom�li�stu�na�pi�sa�li�mo�je�ini�ci�ja�le.�Pre�to�ga�suza�pi�snik�iz�ne�li�iz�pro�sto�ri�je,�ja�sam�ostao�sam,�ni�su�mi�do�zvo�li�li�da�po�|ems�wi�ma�i�ne�znam�{ta�su�na�pi�sa�li�u�toj�na�vod�no�mo�joj�iz�ja�vi.�Tra�̀ io�sam�da�mida�ju�ko�pi�ju�tog�za�pi�sni�ka,�ali�mi�je�ni�su�da�li.

Bi�lo� je� jo{�in�te�re�sant�nih�mo�me�na�ta�u�to�ku�ovog�is�pi�ti�va�wa.�Oni�sustal�no�dr�̀ a�li�is�pred�se�be�go�mi�lu�ne�kih�pa�pi�ra,�a�na�onom�na�vr�hu�pi�sa�lo�jemo�je�ime,�ja�sno�je�da�je�to�tre�ba�lo�da�me�upla�{i�i�na�te�ra�da�pri�~am�ono�{tooni�̀ e�le.�Pi�ta�li�su�me�i�za�{to�ne�po�sta�nem�~lan�ne�ke�stran�ke.�Po�mi�wa�li�suDe�mo�hri�{}an�sku�i�De�mo�krat�sku�stran�ku.�Po�me�nu�li�su�da�je�Vla�dan�Ba�ti}wi�hov�iz�u�zet�no�do�bar�sa�rad�nik.

Pi�ta�li�su�me�ko�fi�nan�si�ra�iz�da�va�we�kwi�ga�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�za�-{to�Srp�ska�ra�di�kal�na�stran�ka�ne�fi�nan�si�ra�iz�da�va�we�mo�jih�kwi�ga.�Bio�je�too~i�gle�dan�psi�hi~�ki�pri�ti�sak�i�wi�ho�va�na�me�ra�da�iza�zo�vu�moj�gnev�i�da�me�tona�te�ra�da�pri�sta�nem�na�wi�ho�ve�uce�ne,�a�sva�wi�ho�va�pi�ta�wa�di�rekt�no�ili�in�-di�rekt�no�bi�la�su�ve�za�na�za�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Sva�ko�we�go�vo�pi�ta�we�je�pro�-vo�ka�tiv�no�i�pod�pri�ti�skom�na�~o�ve�ka�s�ko�jim�raz�go�va�ra.�Sva�ko�we�go�vo�pi�ta�-we�je�pod�mu�klo�i�ne�{to�obe�}a�va.�Ima�te�ose�}aj,�da�}e�on�va�ma�sad�re�{i�ti�pro�-blem�ko�ji�vi�ima�te,�ali�naj�go�re�je�to�{to�oni�zna�ju�sve,�ma�te�ri�jal�no�sta�we,~la�no�ve�po�ro�di�ce,�li~�ne�pro�ble�me�i�kao�da�̀ e�le�da�u�~o�ve�ku�pro�bu�de�zlo�i�dana�kra�ju�pri�sta�nem�da�ka�̀ em�ono�{to�oni�`e�le.�Ja�sam�pr�vi�put�kod�wih�biotri�da�na,�a�tek�dru�gi�dan�su�mi�do�zvo�li�li�da�se�ja�vim�po�ro�di�ci�i�na�rav�no�slu�-{a�li�su�raz�go�vor.�Oba�pu�ta�ka�da�sam�bio�u�ha�{koj�kan�ce�la�ri�ji�is�pi�ti�va�we�jetra�ja�lo�po�tri�da�na,�ta�ko�re�}i�da�no�no}�no,�u�wi�ho�vim�pro�sto�ri�ja�ma�sam�i�spa�-vao.�

Po�sled�wi�put�su�me�zva�li�6.�mar�ta�2006.�go�di�ne,�po�mi�wa�li�su�Mom�~i�laKra�ji�{ni�ka�i�opet�su�mi�pre�ti�li�da�}u�oti�}i�u�Hag.�I�ta�da�su�mi�po�na�vqa�liono�{to�su�mi�re�kli�ve}�pri�pr�vom�su�sre�tu,�a�to�je�pret�wa�da�sam�po�ten�ci�jal�-no�op�tu�̀ e�ni�pred�Ha�{kim�tri�bu�na�lom.�S�ob�zi�rom�da�znam�da�to�vi�{e�ni�jemo�gu�}e�ni�sam�se�upla�{io,�iz�istog�raz�lo�ga�sam�~e�kao�i�sa�iz�da�va�wem�mo�jekwi�ge�u�ko�joj�sam�auten�ti~�no�pre�neo�sve�u�ve�zi�sa�mo�jim�su�sre�ti�ma�i�te�le�fon�-skim�kon�tak�ti�ma�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma.�U�Ze�mu�nu,�30.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�-di�ne.�Ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�i�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Jo�voOsto�ji}”.

8. Dra�gan�Cve�ti�no�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�^e�tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.br.�2293/07.

“Ja�Dra�gan�(Ra�do�mi�ra)�Cve�ti�no�vi},�na�di�mak�Ste�ne,�ro�|en�25.�ju�la�1956.go�di�ne� u� Lo�zni�ci,� Op�{ti�na� Lo�zni�ca,� Re�pu�bli�ka� Sr�bi�ja,� sa� pre�bi�va�li�-{tem�u�Lo�zni�ci,�ul.�Partizanska�22,�sa�li~�nom�kar�tom�broj�145228,�JMBG2507956773622,�iz�da�tom�od�stra�ne�SUP-a�Lo�zni�ca,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je�i�Bo�sne�i�Her�-ce�go�vi�ne,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�is�tra�̀ ni�su�di�ja,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�-we�advo�kat,

47

Page 48: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Iz ja vqu jem:U�to�ku�2000.�go�di�ne�po�Lo�zni�ci�se�pri�~a�lo�da�ne�ki�ne�po�zna�ti�qu�di�{e�-

ta�ju�po�gra�du�i�da�tra�̀ e�’{e�{e�qev�ce’�ko�ji�su�u~e�stvo�va�li�u�ra�tu�u�Zvor�ni�ku.Po�ku�{ao�sam�pre�ko�svo�jih�pri�ja�te�qa�da�sa�znam�o�~e�mu�se�ra�di.�Ni�ko�ni�{tani�je�znao,�ali�sam�do�bio�po�sred�nu�in�for�ma�ci�ju�da�ho�}e�ba{�sa�mnom�da�raz�go�-va�ra�ju.�Tra�̀ i�li�su�od�Mi�lo�ra�da�Go�gi�}a�da�im�na�pra�vi�spi�sak�qu�di�ko�ji�suu~e�stvo�va�li�u�tim�do�ga�|a�ji�ma,�i�sa�ko�ji�ma�̀ e�le�da�raz�go�va�ra�ju.�Ta�ko�me�Go�gi}jed�nog�da�na�oba�ve�stio�da�su�ga�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�iz�Ha�ga�te�le�fo�nom�oba�ve�sti�li�da}e�do�}i�u�Lo�zni�cu�i�da�ho�}e�da�se�vi�de,�iz�me�|u�osta�lih,�i�sa�mnom�i�to�u�re�sto�-ra�nu�’GTA’.�Znao�sam�da�mo�gu�da�me�pro�na�|u�i�uhap�se�kad�god�im�pad�ne�na�pa�-met�i�za�to�sam�do�bro�voq�no�oti�{ao�na�taj�raz�go�vor.�Ne�mo�gu�sa�si�gur�no�{}u�dase�se�tim�ka�da�je�oba�vqen�taj�raz�go�vor,�~i�ni�mi�se�da�je�bi�la�je�sen�2001.�ili2002.�go�di�ne.�Je�di�no�sam�si�gu�ran�da�je�to�bi�lo�po�sle�do�la�ska�DOS-a�na�vlast�uSr�bi�ji.�Ni�sam�do�bio�ni�ka�kav�za�pi�snik�sa�ovog�raz�go�vo�ra,�pa�ta�ko�ne�mo�gu�nida�se�pod�se�tim�ka�da�je�to�ta~�no�bi�lo,�ali�znam�da�je�bi�lo�pre�ne�go�{to�je�po�-dig�nu�ta�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Po�{to�su�ti�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ira�ni�je�do�la�zi�li�i�pri�ku�pqa�li�ne�ke�po�dat�ke,�ceo�grad�je�pri�~ao�o�to�me,�a�po�-seb�no�o�ovim�sa�slu�{a�wi�ma�ko�ja�su�oba�vqe�na�u�tom�re�sto�ra�nu.�Ja,�kao�i�osta�liko�ji�su�sa�slu�{a�va�ni,�bi�li�smo�ve�o�ma�ne�po�ver�qi�vi�pre�ma�wi�ma,�po�ku�{a�lismo�da�ih�pra�ti�mo�da�utvr�di�mo�oda�kle�do�la�ze,�jer�mi,�u�stva�ri,�ni�smo�ni�bi�lisi�gur�ni�ko�su�oni.�To�mi�je�stva�ra�lo�psi�hi~�ki�ne�mir,�iz�ve�snu�ne�si�gur�nost�ive�li�ku�ne�pri�jat�nost.�Ta�da�su�raz�go�va�ra�li�sa�ukup�no�de�se�tak�qu�di,�na�rav�no�po�-je�di�na~�no,�i�to�je�tra�ja�lo�vi�{e�da�na,�a�ja�sam�tu�do�la�zio�sva�ko�ve�~e�da�bih�mo�-gao�da�pra�tim�{ta�se�de�{a�va�i�da�bi�se�ti�qu�di�ko�je�su�is�pi�ti�va�li�ose�}a�li�si�-gur�ni�je,�jer�su�o~e�ki�va�li�da�im�kao�biv�{i�advo�kat�po�mog�nem,�ako�im�to�bu�depo�treb�no.�Ja�sam�sa�wi�ma�raz�go�va�rao�sa�mo�je�dan�put�i�taj�raz�go�vor�je�tra�jao�vi�-{e�od�tri�sa�ta.�Mi�smo�svi�se�de�li�u�toj�ka�fa�ni,�a�oni�su�bi�li�u�jed�nom�odvo�je�-nom�de�lu�i�tu�su�nas�is�pi�ti�va�li,�{to�je�bi�la�do�dat�na�ne�pri�jat�nost,�{to�sam�jado�̀ i�veo�kao�wi�hov�svo�je�vr�san�pri�ti�sak,�kao�na�me�ru�da�zbog�tih�okol�no�stibez�mno�go�raz�mi�{qa�wa�ka�̀ e�mo�sve�{to�bi�oni�̀ e�le�li�da�~u�ju,�sa�mo�da�se�{topre�ra�zi�|e�mo.�Me�ne�su�naj�vi�{e�is�pi�ti�va�li�na�okol�nost�or�ga�ni�za�ci�je�Srp�-skog�~et�ni~�kog�po�kre�ta�i�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke.�Naj�vi�{e�pi�ta�wa�od�no�-si�lo�se�na�to�{ta�je�i�na�ko�ji�na�~in�[e�{eq�na�re�|i�vao i�za�pra�vo�sva�pi�ta�wasu�bi�la�fo�ku�si�ra�na�na�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Pi�ta�li�su�da�li�̀ e�lim�do�bro�voq�-no�da�dam�iz�ja�vu,�na�sa�mom�po�~et�ku�mi�ni�su�re�kli�u�kom�svoj�stvu�me�sa�slu�{a�-va�ju.�Tek�u�to�ku�raz�go�vo�ra�ne�za�do�voq�ni�mo�jim�od�go�vo�ri�ma�je�dan�od�wih,�neznam�da�li�Bu�ga�rin�ili�Nor�ve�̀ a�nin,�mi�je�re�kao�da�vo�dim�ra�~u�na�{ta�go�vo�-rim,�jer�bih�i�ja�mo�gao�bi�ti�op�tu�̀ en.�Re�kao�sam�da�je�neo�zbiq�no�ta�kve�raz�go�-vo�re�oba�vqa�ti�u�ka�fa�ni,�na�{ta�su�oni�re�kli�da�je�to�zbog�to�ga�{to�ni�su�hte�-li�da�me�mal�tre�ti�ra�ju�po�zi�vi�ma,�iako�sam�ja�upra�vo�ovo�do�̀ i�veo�kao�mal�tre�-ti�ra�we.�Ne�se�}am�se�sa�si�gur�no�{}u�da�li�su�ovaj�raz�go�vor�sni�ma�li,�ma�da�pret�-po�sta�vqam�da�je�su.�Pre�vo�di�lac�je�bio�mu�sli�man,�{to�sam�do�̀ i�veo�kao�po�se�-ban�pri�ti�sak�i�pro�vo�ka�ci�ju,�jer�su�oni�pri�~a�li�o�na�vod�nim�mu�sli�man�skim�̀ r�-tva�ma,�a�ja�sam�imao�i�strah,�jer�ni�sam�znao�oda�kle�je�taj�pre�vo�di�lac.�U�to�kuraz�go�vo�ra�jo{�je�dan�put�su�me�upo�zo�ri�li�da�tra�̀ e�isti�nu�ili�}u�i�sam�bi�ti�op�-48

Page 49: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

tu�̀ en.�Po�{to�sam�ja�i�go�vo�rio�sa�mo�isti�nu,�sha�va�tio�sam�da�wih�to�za�pra�vo�ine�in�te�re�su�je,�ve}�da�oni�ho�}e�da�me�pri�si�le�da�ja�ka�̀ em�ne�{to�{to�bi�wi�maod�go�va�ra�lo.�Pri�me�tio�sam�da�je�ovo�dru�go�upo�zo�re�we�iz�go�vo�rio�ve�o�ma�̀ u~�no,to�sam�pri�me�tio�zbog�to�na�ko�jim�se�obra�tio�da�mi�to�pre�ve�de.�U�to�ku�ce�lograz�go�vo�ra�po�sta�vqa�li�su�su�ge�stiv�na�pi�ta�wa�i�na�vo�di�li�na�od�go�vo�re.�O~i�-gled�no�su�hte�li�da�ta�kvim�psi�ho�lo�{kim�pri�ti�sci�ma�uti�~u�na�ono�{to�sam`e�leo�da�ka�̀ em.�̂ i�ni�mi�se�da�sam�ta�da�pot�pi�sao�za�pi�snik,�ni�sam�pot�pu�no�si�-gu�ran,�ali�sam�si�gu�ran�da�mi�ni�su�da�li�pri�me�rak�tog�za�pi�sni�ka.�Je�dan�od�wihmi�je�dao�vi�zit-kar�tu�i�re�kao�da�mo�gu�u�sva�ko�do�ba�da�mu�se�ja�vim,�ako�bu�demimao�ta�kvu�po�tre�bu,�ili�bi�lo�ka�kve�pro�ble�me.�Ve�ro�vat�no�je�`e�leo�da�osta�viuti�sak�~o�ve�ka�ko�ji�je�moj�pri�ja�teq,�da�bi�lak�{e�do�bio�ne�ke�in�for�ma�ci�je�ko�-je�su�oni�`e�le�li.�Jo{�su�mi�re�kli�da,�ako�imam�vi�zu,�mo�gu�da�pu�tu�jem�gde�god`e�lim,�ali�da�mi�oni�ne�ga�ran�tu�ju�da�me�ne�gde�na�ne�koj�gra�ni�ci�ne�}e�uhap�si�-ti,�jer�oni,�kao,�ne�zna�ju�{ta�su�dru�gi�sve�do�ci�o�me�ni�iz�ja�vi�li.�Ova�in�for�ma�-ci�ja�je�ta�ko�|e�bi�la�pri�ti�sak�na�me�ne,�to�je�tre�ba�lo�da�iza�zo�ve�strah,�a�u�stra�-hu�~o�vek�mo�̀ e�i�da�po�klek�ne�pred�pri�ti�sci�ma.�Ja�za�pra�vo�ni�sam�mo�gao�da�raz�-u�mem�da�li�me�is�pi�tu�ju�kao�po�ten�ci�jal�nog�op�tu�̀ e�nog�ili�kao�sve�do�ka,�ma�da�seve�}i�na�wi�ho�vih�pi�ta�wa�od�no�si�la�na�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�ba{�kod�tih�pi�-ta�wa�su�bi�li�naj�su�ge�stiv�ni�ji,�mal�te�ne�su�mi�’sta�vqa�li�u�usta’�ne�ke�od�go�vo�reko�je�ja�ni�sam�ni�po�me�nuo.�Na�~i�nom�is�pi�ti�va�wa�hte�li�su�me�da�pri�vo�le�na�wi�-ho�ve�od�go�vo�re.�To�je�po�seb�no�bi�lo�pri�sut�no�ka�da�mi�isto�pi�ta�we�po�sta�vqa�juna�sva�kih�po�la�sa�ta,�~i�me�su�hte�li,�ili�da�me�zbu�ne,�ili�da�iz�gu�bim�str�pqe�wepa�da�ka�̀ em�{ta�god�oni�ho�}e�sa�mo�da�se�sve�{to�pre�za�vr�{i.�Ja�iz�is�ku�stvaznam�da�je�to�na�~in�da�se�do�bi�je�`e�qe�ni�od�go�vor.�Ja�sam�dru�gim�qu�di�ma�skre�-tao�pa�̀ wu�da�ne�na�se�da�ju�na�ta�kve�pro�vo�ka�ci�je�i�psi�hi~�ke�pri�ti�ske,�jer�samvi�deo�da�su�uigran�tim.�Je�dan�pi�ta�jed�no,�dru�gi�upa�da�sa�dru�gim�pi�ta�wem�i�ve�-o�ma�je�te�{ko�za�dr�̀ a�ti�kon�cen�tra�ci�ju,�{to�i�je�ste�wi�hov�ciq.�Pi�ta�li�su�meda�li�`e�lim�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ be,�ali�ni�su�re�kli�pro�tiv�ko�ga.�Re�kli�suda�mo�̀ da�po�sto�ji�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tiv�ne�ko�ga,�ali�da�oni�to�ne�zna�ju.�To�je�po�se�-ban�vid�pri�ti�ska,�ta�ne�do�u�mi�ca,�za�pra�vo�strah�da�mo�̀ da�po�sto�ji�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�ipro�tiv�me�ne,�vaq�da�je�tre�ba�lo�da�me�na�te�ra�da�pri�sta�nem�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tivko�ga�god�oni�̀ e�le.�Po�seb�no�su�se�ras�pi�ti�va�li�pod�ko�jim�okol�no�sti�ma�sam�is�-kqu�~en�iz�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke,�su�ge�ri�sa�li�su�da�je�tu�bi�lo�ne�kih�pro�-ble�ma,�{to�sam�ja�ne�gi�rao.�I�na�gla�sio�da�iz�stran�ke�ni�sam�imao�ni�ka�kvihpret�wi�i�da�u�Srp�skoj�ra�di�kal�noj�stran�ci�imam�mno�go�pri�ja�te�qa.�Ne�ko�li�kopu�ta�u�to�ku�raz�go�vo�ra�~i�ni�lo�mi�se�da�pi�ta�wa�ni�su�sa�mo�su�ge�stiv�na,�ve}�i�pre�-te�}a.�Po�go�to�vo�je�dan�od�wih,�ko�ji�je�uglav�nom�}u�tao�i�kao�ne�za�in�te�re�so�va�nopo�sma�trao,�upa�dao�je�po�vre�me�no�sa�pot�pi�ta�wi�ma,�ili�na�vo�dio�na�od�go�vo�re.Ovo�je�bi�lo�ti�pi~�no�po�li�cij�sko�is�pi�ti�va�we,�una�kr�sno,�sa�o~i�gled�nim�pri�ti�-skom.�Po�seb�na�je�wi�ho�va�dr�skost�is�ka�za�na�u�to�me�{to�su�sve�ra�di�li�u�ka�fa�ni,na�jav�nom�me�stu,�ta�ko�re�}i�na�o~i�gled�svih�mo�jih�su�gra�|a�na,�{to�je�mo�glo�do�-ve�sti�do�raz�li�~i�tih�sum�wi�i�ne�ga�tiv�nog�uti�ca�ja�na�moj�ugled�i�na�mo�ju�po�ro�-di�cu.�Ose�}ao�sam�se�pot�pu�no�ne�be�zbed�no,�a�strah�sam�ose�}ao�jo{�bar�me�sec�da�-na�po�sle�tog�raz�go�vo�ra.�Po�seb�ne�ne�pri�jat�no�sti�sam�imao�{to�su�po�gra�du�po�-~e�le�da�kru�̀ e�pri�~e�da�sam�do�bio�ne�ke�auto�bu�se�u�za�me�nu�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv

49

Page 50: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

[e�{e�qa.U�Lo�zni�ci,�27.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Dra�gan�Cve�ti�no�vi}”.

9. Bo�ri�slav�Bo�gu�no�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�20.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�^e�tvr�tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�VOv.�br.�431/07.

“Ja�Bo�ri�slav�(Du�{a�na)�Bo�gu�no�vi}�ro�|en�u�me�stu�Ne�go�slav�ci,�Vu�ko�var,Re�pu�bli�ka�Hr�vat�ska,�25.�03.�1950.�go�di�ne,�broj�li~�ne�kar�te�96554,�iz�da�ta�odstra�ne�Ode�qe�wa�unu�tra�{wih�po�slo�va�u�[i�du,�JMBG�2503950303238,�sa�pre�bi�-va�li�{tem�u�[i�du,�uli�ca�Voj�vo�|an�skih�bri�ga�da�broj�11,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�-bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�go�vo�rim�srp�skim�je�zi�kom,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�eko�-no�mi�sta,

Iz ja vqu jem:U�dru�goj�po�lo�vi�ni�2002.�go�di�ne�bio�sam�po�zvan�od�stra�ne�ha�{kih�is�tra�-

`i�te�qa�u�se�di�{te�wi�ho�ve�kan�ce�la�ri�je,�ko�ja�se�na�la�zi�na�De�di�wu�u�Be�o�gra�du,bio�sam�po�zvan�te�le�fo�nom.�Ja�sam�oti�{ao�u�tu�kan�ce�la�ri�ju�gde�su�me�is�pi�ti�-va�li�ne�ko�li�ko�sa�ti,�tra�̀ e�}i�od�me�ne�da�im�ka�̀ em�o�de�{a�va�wi�ma�u�Vu�ko�va�ru1991.�go�di�ne.�Tom�pri�li�kom�bi�lo�je�uop�{te�nih�pi�ta�wa�ko�ja�su�se�od�no�si�la�navoj�sku,�po�li�ci�ju�i�te�ri�to�ri�jal�nu�od�bra�nu.�Tom�pri�li�kom�ni�sam�imao�bi�lo{ta�da�ka�̀ em�{to�bi�mo�glo�da�na�{ko�di�voj�sci,�po�li�ci�ji�i�te�ri�to�ri�jal�noj�od�-bra�ni.�Dru�gi�put�su�me�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�po�zva�li�po�sle�go�di�-nu�da�na,�i�to�po�sle�ubi�stva�Zo�ra�na�\in�|i�}a.�Opet�su�me�po�zva�li�pu�tem�te�le�-fo�na,�jer�su�mi�pret�hod�no�za�pre�ti�li�da�se�mo�ram�oda�zva�ti�sva�ki�put�ka�da�meoni�po�zo�vu.�Po�{to�sam�ose�tio�ozbiq�nu�pret�wu,�mo�rao�sam�oti�}i�opet�u�tukan�ce�la�ri�ju�ha�{kih�is�ta�̀ i�te�qa�u�Be�o�gra�du�na�De�di�wu.�Ta�da�su�me�is�pi�ti�va�-li�dva�da�na.�Pr�vi�dan�su�me�is�pi�ti�va�li�uju�tru�od�10�pa�do�18�~a�so�va�po�sle�pod�-ne�gde�su�me�pu�sti�li,�a�po�tom�mi�na�re�di�li�da�mo�ram�do�}i�su�tra�dan�u�wi�ho�vukan�ce�la�ri�ju�uz�pret�wu,�ta�ko�da�sam�mo�rao�oti�}i�i�dru�gi�dan,�gde�su�me�za�dr�̀ a�-li�i�is�pi�ti�va�li�od�10�do�17�~a�so�va�po�sle�pod�ne.�U�to�ku�is�pi�ti�va�wa�u�ova�dvada�na,�tra�̀ i�li�su�od�me�ne�da�im�ka�̀ em�{ta�je�ra�dio�Ar�kan�na�pod�ru~�ju�Srem�-sko-ba�raw�ske�obla�sti,�dok�se�Ar�kan�na�la�zio�na�tom�pod�ru~�ju.�Pi�ta�li�su�mepo�tom�ko�ja�je�bi�la�ulo�ga�Ra�do�va�na�Stoj�~i�}a-Baye�dok�je�bo�ra�vio�na�tom�pod�-ru~�ju.�Po�sta�vqa�li�su�mi�vi�{e�pu�ta�pi�ta�we�da�li�ja�znam�ne�{to�ve�za�no�za�’Ov�-~a�ru’�i�za�u~e�{}e�JNA�na�pod�ru~�ju�Vu�ko�va�ra,�po�seb�no�ko�ju�su�ulo�gu�ima�li�i{ta�su�ra�di�li�[qi�van�~a�nin,�Mrk�{i}�i�Ra�di}.�Jed�no�od�pi�ta�wa�bi�lo�je�i�pi�-ta�we�ve�za�no�za�or�ga�ni�za�ci�ju�i�de�lo�va�we�te�ri�to�ri�jal�ne�od�bra�ne�u�Vu�ko�va�ru.Pi�ta�li�su�me�i�o�to�me�ka�ko�je�bi�la�for�mi�ra�na�mi�li�ci�ja�u�Srem�sko-ba�raw�skojobla�sti,�na�~i�jem�~e�lu�sam�ja�bio�kao�mi�ni�star�unu�tra�{wih�po�slo�va�u�Srem�-sko-ba�raw�skoj�obla�sti.�Ta�da�su�mi�po�nu�di�li�da�bu�dem�za�{ti�}en�sve�dok,�da�mipro�me�ne�iden�ti�tet,�da�mi�obez�be�de�bo�ra�vak�u�dru�goj�dr�̀ a�vi,�kao�i�do�voq�nuko�li�~i�nu�nov�ca�za�me�ne�i�mo�ju�po�ro�di�cu.�Znam�da�su�mi�ta�da�nu�di�li�u�ve�li�komiz�no�su,�i�to�u�do�la�ri�ma.�Iako�je�sve�ovo�vr�{e�no�uz�pri�ti�sak,�pret�wu�i�pri�nu�-du,�ja�sam�to�sve�od�bio�i�ni�ka�da�ne�}u�pri�hva�ti�ti�da�ni�za�ko�ju�ce�nu�bu�dem�za�-{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok,�a�ni�ti�}u�sve�do�~i�ti�pro�tiv�mo�ga�na�ro�da�i�mo�je�dr�̀ a�ve.�Iakosam�tra�̀ io�iz�ja�ve�o�raz�go�vo�ru�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma,�ka�ko�2002,�ta�ko�ita�da�2003.�go�di�ne,�me�ni�ni�su�hte�li�da�ti�pri�me�rak�iz�ja�va,�a�iz�ja�ve�su�dik�ti�ra�-ne�i�pi�sa�ne�na�en�gle�skom�je�zi�ku,�a�ja�en�gle�ski�je�zik�ne�raz�u�mem,�ta�ko�da�ja�neznam�{ta�su�oni�mo�gli�u�mo�je�iz�ja�ve�uno�si�ti.�Pr�vi�put�ka�da�sam�bio�is�pi�ti�-50

Page 51: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

van,�is�pi�ti�vao�me�je�je�dan�is�tra�̀ i�teq�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�2002.�go�di�ne,�a�u2003.�go�di�ni,�is�pi�ti�va�la�su�me�tro�ji�ca�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.�Tre�-}i�put,�ta~�ni�je�8.�februara�2007.�go�di�ne,�bio�sam�po�zvan�od�stra�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qa�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la,�pret�hod�no�pu�tem�te�le�fo�na�da�8.�fe�bru�a�ra�do�|em�u�kan�-ce�la�ri�ju�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du,�{to�sam�opet�mo�rao�i�ne�ra�do�da�odem,jer�je�ovo�bi�lo�ne�za�pam�}e�no�{i�ka�ni�ra�we�i�mal�tre�ti�ra�we�me�ne�~i�je�po�sle�di�-ce�tr�pim�ja�i�mo�ja�po�ro�di�ca,�̀ i�ve�}i�u�stra�hu�da�mi�itra�̀ i�te�qi�Ha�{kog�tri�-bu�na�la�ne�na�me�ste�i�ne�na�{ko�de.�U�to�ku�ovog�is�pi�ti�va�wa,�8.�2.�2007.�go�di�ne,tra�̀ i�li�su�od�me�ne�da�im�ka�̀ em�ko�ja�je�ulo�ga�bi�la�Jo�vi�ce�Sta�ni�{i�}a�kao�na�-~el�ni�ka�DB-a� za�Sr�bi�ju,� za� vre�me� rat�nih� de�{a�va�wa� u�Srem�sko-ba�raw�skojobla�sti.�Za�tim�su�me�pi�ta�li�za�Fran�ka�Si�ma�to�vi�}a,�za�ko�jeg�su�ka�za�li�da�jebio�ko�man�dant�Cr�ve�nih�be�ret�ki.

Ovog�pu�ta�je�dan�ha�{ki�is�tra�̀ i�teq�mi�je�po�sta�vio�vi�{e�pi�ta�wa�ve�za�nihza�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Pr�vo�pi�ta�we�bi�lo�je�{ta�ja�znam�u�ve�zi�po�se�-te�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�Vu�ko�va�ru,�da�li�je�ta�da�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�go�-vo�rio�na�me�ga�fon�da�sve�usta�{e�tre�ba�po�kla�ti�i�pro�te�ra�ti�iz�Vu�ko�va�ra.�Jasam�na�ova�pi�ta�wa�od�go�vo�rio�i�re�kao�da�je�jed�nom�pri�li�kom,�u�je�sen,�1991.�go�-di�ne,�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�do�{ao�u�Vu�ko�var,�da�sam�ga�do�~e�kao�u�se�lu�Ne�go�slav�-ci�ma,�te�da�smo�za�jed�no�oti�{li�u�Vu�ko�var,�ob�i�{li�ma�lo�grad,�ta�da�Vo�ji�slav[e�{eq�uop�{te�ni�ji�go�vo�rio�na�meg�fon,�ni�ti�se�iko�me�obra�}ao�ili�pre�tio,ni�je�bio�ni�na�ka�kvom�sa�stan�ku�tom�pri�li�kom�i�ni�je�se�du�go�za�dr�̀ a�vao�u�Vu�-ko�va�ru,�ve}�se�od�mah�vra�tio�za�Be�o�grad�pre�ko�[i�da.

Po�no�vo�su�mi�nu�di�li�da�bu�dem�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok,�sa�svim�go�re�na�ve�de�nimpri�vi�le�gi�ja�ma,�da�mi�se�pro�me�ni�iden�ti�tet,�da�mo�gu�da�idem�u�dru�gu�dr�̀ a�vu�da`i�vim�sa�po�ro�di�com,�da�}e�mi�obez�be�di�ti�do�voq�no�nov�ca�da�`i�vim�u�dru�gojdr�̀ a�vi�sa�po�ro�di�com,�in�si�sti�ra�ju�}i�da�ja�bu�dem�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�Ha�{kogtri�bu�na�la,�{to�sam�opet�iz�ri�~i�to�i�ka�te�go�ri~�no�od�bio.�Ja�Bo�gu�no�vu}�Bo�ri�-slav�ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska�i�pri�nu�de.�U�Be�o�gra�du,�20.�fe�bru�-a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Bo�gu�no�vi}�Bo�ri�slav”.

10.An�|el�ko�Tr�ni�ni}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�21.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�No�vom�Sa�du�pod�OV1.�br.�7350/2007.

“Ja�An�|el�ko�(Dra�go�qu�ba)�Tr�ni�ni},�na�di�mak�’Tr�no’�ro�|en�5.�fe�bru�a�ra1967.�go�di�ne�u�se�lu�Bra�ti},�Op�{ti�na�Lo�zni�ca,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Sr�bi�ja�sa�pre�bi�va�-li�{tem�u�se�lu�Bra�ti},�Op�{ti�na�Lo�zni�ca,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�-spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,�bezstal�nog�za�po�sle�wa,

Iz ja vqu jem:Me�ne�su�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�zva�li�te�le�fo�nom,�ne�se�}am�se

da�tu�ma,�ali�znam�da�je�bi�lo�pro�le�}e�2006.�go�di�ne.�Ja�vi�la�se�ne�ka�`e�na,�pred�-sta�vi�la�se,�ali�joj�se�ime�na�ne�se�}am,�znam�da�je�srp�sko.�Re�kla�je�da�ra�di�u�kan�-ce�la�ri�ji�ne�kog�Yon�so�na�iz�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�u�Ha�gu.�Pi�ta�la�je�da�li�pri�sta�jem�daraz�go�va�ram�sa�wim.�Pri�stao�sam.�Pret�po�sta�vqam�da�su�broj�mog�mo�bil�nog�te�-le�fo�na�do�bi�li�iz�SUP-a�Lo�zni�ca,�jer�sam�ina�~e�ube�|en�da�mi�pri�slu�{ku�juraz�go�vo�re.�Raz�go�va�rao�sam�sa�tim�Yon�so�nom�oko�sat�vre�me�na.�On�je�o�me�niznao�sve,�znao�je�da�sam�zbog�ubi�stva�dok�to�ra�Vi�do�vi�}a�bio�u�za�tvo�ru,�ma�da�ihto�ni�je�mno�go�in�te�re�so�va�lo.�Naj�vi�{e�su�me�pi�ta�li�o�ra�di�ka�li�ma,�o�to�me�da�li

51

Page 52: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

je�me�ni�ne�ko�iz�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke�na�re�|i�vao�u�to�ku�ra�ta.�Pi�ta�li�suda�li�znam�i{ta�pro�tiv�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�ili�bi�lo�ko�jeg�dru�gog�ra�di�ka�-la.�Sve�{to�sam�imao�da�ka�̀ em�re�kao�sam.�U�stva�ri,�da�ne�znam�ni�{ta.�Ni�tije�me�ne�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�po�slao�u�Zvor�nik,�ni�ti�je�bi�lo�{ta�na�re�|i�vao�on,ni�ti�bi�lo�ko�ji�dru�gi�ra�di�kal�u�Zvor�ni�ku.�On�je�me�ne�tih�sat�vre�me�na�upor�nopri�ti�skao�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�[e�{e�qa�i�re�kao�mi�da,�ako�sve�do�~im,�ne�}uima�ti�ni�ka�kvih�pro�ble�ma,�da�se�ne�bo�jim�ni�ko�ga�sa�srp�ske�stra�ne,�da�}e�oni�dame�za�{ti�te.�Re�kao�je,�ako�se�bo�jim�za�svo�ju�bez�bed�nost,�za�svoj�`i�vot�i�`i�votsvo�je�po�ro�di�ce,�da�slo�bod�no�ka�̀ em,�da�}e�oni�do�}i�po�nas,�ali�da�ja�pre�to�gatre�ba�da�dam�ne�ku�iz�ja�vu,�ako�im�ka�̀ em�da�ne�{to�znam�{to�ne�smem�da�sa�op�-{tim.�A�u�to�ku�ce�log�raz�go�vo�ra�pi�ta�li�su�za�[e�{e�qa,�da�li�je�do�la�zio�u�Zvor�-nik,�da�li�je�ta�mo�imao�do�bro�voq�ce,�da�li�su�[e�{e�qe�vi�do�bro�voq�ci�vr�{i�lirat�ne�zlo�~i�ne,�i�sve�u�tom�smi�slu.�Re�kao�je�da�bi,�ako�sam�i�ja�vr�{io�rat�ne�zlo�-~i�ne,�to�mo�glo�da�se�po�ti�re,�od�no�sno�da�ne�}u�bi�ti�op�tu�̀ en�u�za�me�nu�za�mo�jesve�do�~e�we�pro�tiv�[e�{e�qa.�Od�bio�sam�sve�wi�ho�ve�po�nu�de�i�re�kao�im�da�onisa�mo�ra�de�svoj�po�sao,�da�me�ne�in�te�re�su�ju�wi�ho�ve�uce�ne�i�pret�we.�Iz�ja�vu�da�jemdo�bro�voq�no�i�bez�pri�ti�ska.�U�Ze�mu�nu,�3.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�daoAn�|el�ko�Tr�ni�ni}”.

11. Mi�ro�slav�Vu�ko�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�20.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.�1905/07.

“Ja�srp�ski�~et�ni~�ki�voj�vo�da�Mi�ro�slav�(Mi�lo�mi�ra)�Vu�ko�vi},�na�di�mak^e�le,�ro�|en�23.�sep�tem�bra�1952.�go�di�ne�u�^a~�ku,�op�{ti�na�^a�~ak,�Re�pu�bli�kaSr�bi�ja,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�^a~�ku,�ul.�Bu�le�var�Vu�ka�Ka�rayi}a�broj�23/10,�sali~�nom�kar�tom�broj�195376,�JMBG�2309952782833,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�dr�̀ a�vqan�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski,po�za�ni�ma�wu�pen�zi�o�ner,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we�bra�var,

Iz ja vqu jem: Pr�vi�kon�takt�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�imao�sam�22.�no�vem�-

bra�2002.�go�di�ne�u�mo�joj�kan�ce�la�ri�ji�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Pret�hod�no�su�me�zva�li�te�le�-fo�nom�i�do�go�vo�ri�li�ovaj�su�sret.�Ja�sam�obez�be�dio�pri�su�stvo�mo�jih�advo�ka�ta,a�oba�ve�stio�sam�i�no�vi�na�re�ko�ji�su�~e�ka�li�u�dru�goj�kan�ce�la�ri�ji.�Ta�da�sam�raz�-go�va�rao�sa�Nor�ve�̀ a�ni�nom�Fil�To�lef�se�nom�Pa�ki�stan�cem�ko�ji�se�zvao�Kan,�asa�wim�je�bi�la�i�̀ e�na�pre�vo�di�lac,�zva�la�se�Mi�ra.�Oni�su�bi�li�iz�ne�na�|e�ni�kadsu�se�po�ja�vi�li�no�vi�na�ri�i�sli�ka�li�ih,�jer�to�ni�su�o~e�ki�va�li.�Ja�sam�im�po�ka�-zao�Za�kon�o�sa�rad�wi�sa�Ha�{kim�tri�bu�na�lom�i�re�kao�da�ne�̀ e�lim�da�go�vo�rim,jer�me�ni�ko�ni�je�oslo�bo�dio�~u�va�wa�dr�̀ av�ne�ni�voj�ne�taj�ne�i�da�ne�`e�lim�daodem�na�ro�bi�ju�zbog�ne�~eg�{to�bi�ne�ko�mo�gao�da�pro�gla�si�taj�nom,�s�ob�zi�romda�se�u�Sr�bi�ji�pod�ta�da�{wom�vla�{}u�ni�je�zna�lo�ni�{ta�je�dra�̀ av�na,�ni�{taje�voj�na�taj�na.�Na�tom�pr�vom�sa�stan�ku�ja�sno�su�mi�re�kli�da�od�me�ne�tra�̀ e�dasve�do�~im�pro�tiv�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,�[e�{e�qa,�Ka�rayi}a�i�Mla�di�}a�i�po�nu�di�li�sumi�blan�ko�~ek,�re�kli�su�da�sam�upi�{em�iz�nos�ko�ji�ho�}u�za�na�gra�du�za�ova�sve�-do�~e�wa,�oni�}e�taj�no�vac�od�mah�upla�ti�ti.�Re�kli�su�da�}u,�ako�`e�lim,�bi�ti�za�-{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok�i�da�}e�za�{ti�ti�ti�i�obez�be�di�ti�mo�ju�po�ro�di�cu.�Od�bio�sam�dasve�do�~im�u�Ha�gu,�od�bio�sam�po�nu�|e�ni�~ek�i�re�kao�da�mi�te�pa�re�ne�tre�ba�ju,�aod�bio�sam�i�da�bu�dem�za�{ti�}e�ni�sve�dok,�jer�ne�mam�od�ko�ga�da�se�{ti�tim.�TajTo�lef�sen�mi�je�tom�pri�li�kom�re�kao�da�ako�od�bi�jem�wi�ho�ve�po�nu�de,�ja�idem�u52

Page 53: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Hag�kao�osum�wi�~e�ni�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne.�Re�kao�sam�da�mo�gu�da�me�od�ve�du�u�Hag,ali�da�na�wi�ho�ve�uce�ne�ne�}u�pri�sta�ti.�Ja�sam�o�sve�mu�ovo�me�od�mah�oba�ve�stiono�vi�na�re�i�is�pri�~ao�{ta�su�tra�̀ i�li�od�me�ne�i�{ta�su�mi�nu�di�li.�Ja�sam�~akza�mo�lio�no�vi�na�re�ko�je�znam�da�odu�do�Vo�je,�da�mu�ka�̀ u�da�su�me�ovi�kon�tak�ti�-ra�li,�bez�ob�zi�ra�{to�ne�go�vo�ri�mo,�ne�mo�ra�da�zna�~i�da�~o�vek�ne�tre�ba�da�znao�~e�mu�se�ra�di.�Da�li�su�oni�oti�{li,�ja�stvar�no�ne�znam.�Po�sle�to�ga�me�ni�sukon�tak�ti�ra�li�sve�do�2.�ja�nu�a�ra�2005.�go�di�ne.�Ta�da�sam�do�bio�oba�ve�{te�we�da�meSa�vet�mi�ni�sta�ra�oslo�bo�dio�~u�va�wa�dr�̀ av�ne�taj�ne.�Ja�sam�sve�do�ma�ja�2005.�go�-di�ne�uspe�vao�da�iz�beg�nem�taj�dru�gi�su�sret.�Po�sle�tog�dru�gog�kon�tak�ta�sa�po�-~et�ka�2005.�go�di�ne�ja�sam�imao�stra�{nih�psi�hi~�kih�pro�ble�ma,�ve�ro�vao�sam�da}e�is�pu�ni�ti�svo�ju�pret�wu�i�da�}e�me�pri�li�kom�is�pi�ti�va�wa�uhap�si�ti.�Za�tih~e�ti�ri,�pet�me�se�ci�smr�{ao�sam�sko�ro�50�ki�lo�gra�ma.�Po�ro�di�cu�sam�ta�ko�|e�biopri�pre�mio�za�mo�je�hap�{e�we.�Ipak�se�ni�sam�dvo�u�mio,�ja�sam�~a�stan�Sr�bin�ini�kad�ne�bih�mo�gao�da�se�pro�dam.�Kao�{to�znam�i�da�je�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�~a�-stan�~o�vek�i�ni�kad�ne�bih�mo�gao�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�we�ga�i�da�iz�mi�{qam�sa�-mo�da�bih�mu�na�pa�ko�stio,�bez�ob�zi�ra�na�na�{a�me�|u�sob�na�tr�ve�wa,�jer�je�on�pomom�mi�{qe�wu�mno�go�u~i�nio�za�na{�na�rod.�Od�ja�nu�a�ra�do�ma�ja�2005.�go�di�ne�do�-bi�jao�sam�ano�nim�ne�po�zi�ve,�ja�vqa�li�su�se�na�vod�no�pri�ja�te�qi�iz�ino�stran�stvako�ji�su�nu�di�li�za�{ti�tu�me�ni�i�mo�joj�po�ro�di�ci.�Me�wa�li�su�na�gla�sak,�hr�vat�ski,bo�san�ski,�cr�no�gor�ski�i�to�je�tre�ba�lo�da�bu�de�ne�ki�pri�ti�sak�pre�mog�sa�slu�{a�-wa�pred�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma.

Moj�dru�gi�raz�go�vor�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�tra�jao�je�tri�da�na,�ja�samin�si�sti�rao�da�sa�mnom�bu�de�moj�advo�kat�Sve�ta�Pa�vlo�vi}�na�{ta�su�je�dva�pri�-sta�li,�nu�di�li�su�mi�ne�ke�advo�ka�te�sa�wi�ho�vog�spi�ska�pa�mi�je�od�mah�bi�lo�ja�-sno�da�se�ra�di�o�nov�cu�i�o�advo�ka�ti�ma�ko�ji�su�sa�mo�zbog�to�ga�na�wi�ho�vom�spi�-sku.�Mom�advo�ka�tu�ni�su�da�li�da�go�vo�ri,�taj�[ve�|a�nin�je�ur�lao�sva�ki�put�kadmoj�advo�kat�po�ku�{a�ne�{to�da�ka�̀ e.�In�si�sti�ra�li�su�da�op�tu�̀ im�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa,�bi�li�su�in�for�mi�sa�ni�da�smo�nas�dvo�ji�ca�u�sva�|i�i�ni�su�mo�gli�dashva�te�za�{to�ja�we�ga�bra�nim.�Ob�ja�{wa�vao�sam�im�da�oni�tu�na�{u�sva�|u�ne�mo�-gu�da�shva�te�i�da�ja�[e�{e�qa�uop�{te�ne�bra�nim,�ve}�sa�mo�go�vo�rim�isti�nu�i�iz�-no�sim�~i�we�ni�ce�ko�je�znam.�Ja�ko�sam�se�iz�ne�na�dio�kad�su�mi�pro�~i�ta�li�sni�-mqe�ni�te�le�fon�ski�raz�go�vor�iz�me�|u�me�ne�i�[e�{e�qa�iz�ja�nu�a�ra�1992.�go�di�neka�da�sam�ja�bio�u�bol�ni�ci�u�Som�bo�ru.�Ovaj�dru�gi�raz�go�vor�vo�dio�je�Ne�macMaks�Ma�jer�kao�za�stup�nik�Kar�le�del�Pon�te,�a�bio�je�pri�su�tan�i�je�dan�[ve�|a�-nin�ko�me�ne�znam�ime,�a�bio�je�i�je�dan�Bel�gi�ja�nac,�ova�dvo�ji�ca�su�uglav�nom�ne�-{to�za�pi�si�va�li,�i�ta�da�sam�kod�Bel�gi�jan�ca�vi�deo�ne�ku�sve�sku�i�us�peo�sam�dapro�~i�tam�da�oni�tu�u�Be�o�gra�du�u�ul.�Je�vre�ma�Gru�ji�}a�ima�ju�pri�tvor�sku�je�di�ni�-cu,�gde�osum�wi�~e�nog�mo�gu�da�za�dr�̀ e�i�do�de�ve�de�set�da�na.�Ja�ni�sam�pri�sta�jao�dapre�no�}im�kod�wih�i�pu�{ta�li�su�me�sva�ki�dan�ku�}i,�pa�sam�uju�tru�do�la�zio.�Ta�-ko�tri�da�na.�Oni�su�sve�vre�me�is�pred�se�be�ima�li�lap�top�i�go�mi�lu�do�ku�men�ta�-ci�je,�a�na�pred�woj�stra�ni�je�pi�sa�lo�la�ti�ni�com�̂ e�le.�Raz�go�vor�su�sni�ma�li,�a�jasam�in�si�sti�rao�da�i�ja�sni�mam�audio-ka�se�te,�jer�wi�ma�ni�sam�ve�ro�vao�po�slepri�ti�sa�ka,�pret�wi�i�uce�na�ko�je�sam�ve}�do�̀ i�veo,�a�i�da�nas�stre�pim�da�se�ne�de�-si�da�oni�is�pu�ne�pret�we�i�da�me�od�ve�du�u�Hag,�ili�da�me�is�po�ru�~e�Hr�vat�skojili�Bo�sni�i�Her�ce�go�vi�ni.�Iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�i�bez�pri�ti�ska.�Iz�ja�vudao�Srp�ski�~et�ni~�ki�voj�vo�da�Mi�ro�slav�Vu�ko�vi}”

53

Page 54: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

12. Sre}�ko�Ra�do�va�no�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�20.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.�1906/07.

“Ja,�srp�ski�~et�ni~�ki�voj�vo�da�Sre}�ko�(Ili�ja)�Ra�do�va�no�vi},�ro�|en�5.1.1949.godine�u�Aran�|e�lov�cu,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�ul.�Gra�da�Ka�ra�re�br.28,�lk.�br.�392210,�JMBG�0501949720054,�iz�da�ta�od�SUP-a�Kra�gu�je�vac,�po�na�ci�-o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski�je�zik,�po�za�ni�-ma�wu�pen�zi�o�ner,�pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we:�po�li�ca�jac,

Iz ja vqu jem:Do�pr�vog�kon�tak�ta�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�do�{lo�je�u�no�-

vem�bru�2002.�go�di�ne,�te�le�fo�nom.�Po�do�go�vo�ru�po�stig�nu�tom�u�tom�te�le�fon�-skom�raz�go�vo�ru�u�to�ku�ja�nu�a�ra�2003.�go�di�ne,�ne�se�}am�se�da�tu�ma,�oti�{ao�sam�uBe�o�grad�u�uli�cu�Je�vre�ma�Gru�ji�}a�gde�su�sa�m�nom�oba�vi�li�raz�go�vor�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qi�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�To�res�Sol�dal�iz�Nor�ve�{ke�i�Majk�Ste�fa�no�vi}�izAustra�li�je.�Ovaj�raz�go�vor�tra�jao�je�tri�da�na,�ali�ne�za�re�dom.�Pred�met�wi�ho�-vog�in�te�re�so�va�wa�bi�lo�je�mo�je�u~e�{}e�u�ra�tu,�ko�me�je�upu�tio�na�ra�ti�{te,�mo�-je�de�lo�va�we�u�Srp�skoj�ra�di�kal�noj�stran�ci�i�Cr�ve�nim�be�ret�ka�ma.�Ovi�raz�go�-vo�ri�sni�ma�ni�su�vi�deo-ka�me�rom�(sa�mo�je�dan�deo)�do�tre�nut�ka�ka�da�sam�shva�tio{ta�oni�ho�}e,�od�no�sno�wi�ho�ve�na�me�re.�U�to�ku�ce�log�raz�go�vo�ra�na�go�ve�{ta�va�-li�su�da�su�sprem�ni�da�me�abo�li�ra�ju�za�mo�ju�na�vod�nu�’ko�mand�nu�od�go�vor�nost’za�ne�ke�na�vod�ne�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne,�u�za�me�nu�za�mo�je�sve�do�~e�we�pro�tiv�Jo�vi�ce�Sta�-ni�{i�}a,�Fran�ka�Si�ma�to�vi�}a-Fren�ki�ja�i�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�U�to�ku�ce�-log�raz�go�vo�ra�bi�lo�mi�je�ja�sno�da�oni�me�ne�vi�de�kao�po�ten�ci�jal�nog�sve�do�ka�uovim�ha�{kim�pro�ce�si�ma.�Go�vo�ri�li�su�da,�ako�sve�do�~im,�da�}u�bi�ti�oslo�bo�|enne�ke�od�go�vor�no�sti,�ma�da�ja�ni�ta�da,�a�ni�sa�da�ne�znam�za�{ta�bih�tre�bao�da�bu�-dem�od�go�vo�ran.�Sa�ovih�raz�go�vo�ra�ni�sam�do�bio�ni�ka�kav�za�pi�snik,�ni�ti�audioili�vi�deo�sni�mak,�iako�sam�to�tra�̀ io�i�oni�su�mi�obe�}a�li.�Ni�ka�kav�za�pi�snikni�sam�pot�pi�sao.�Po�sled�wi�raz�go�vor�te�2003.�go�di�ne�oba�vi�li�smo�u�Kra�gu�jev�-cu,�u�ka�fi�}u�’Tajm’,�jer�sam�ja�od�bio�da�po�no�vo�idem�u�Be�o�grad.�Ta�da�su�mi�po�-mi�wa�li�i�no�vac,�od�no�sno�ka�ko�su�re�kli�’ade�kvat�nu�na�gra�du’�za�mo�je�sve�do�~e�-we.�Ka�te�go�ri~�ki�sam�to�od�bio,�jer�pre�sve�ga,�kao�~a�stan�Sr�bin�ne�bih�mo�gaoda�na�ne�sem�ta�kvu�sra�mo�tu�ni�se�bi�ni�svo�joj�po�ro�di�ci.�Ha�{ki�is�tra�̀ i�te�qini�su�raz�u�me�li�ova�kav�moj�stav,�pa�su�me�pod�se�}a�li�da�oni�zna�ju�da�ja�ni�sam�udo�brim�od�no�si�ma�sa�Vo�ji�sla�vom�[e�{e�qem�i�da�bi�wi�ma�bi�lo�lo�gi~�no�da�jawe�ga�u�ta�kvoj�si�tu�a�ci�ji�te�re�tim.�Ja�sam�se�po�sle�to�ga�sklo�nio�iz�gra�da,�jer�samshva�tio�da�sve�to�sa�wi�ho�ve�stra�ne�uop�{te�ni�je�na�iv�no.

Ne�ko�li�ko�go�di�na�me�ni�su�po�zi�va�li,�pa�sam�mi�slio�da�je�to�za�vr�{e�na�pri�-~a,�pa�sam�bio�iz�ne�na�|en�ka�da�su�me�pre�dva�de�se�tak�da�na�po�zva�li�te�le�fo�nom.Pre�vo�di�lac�mi�je�re�kao�da�sam�nom�`e�li�da�raz�go�va�ra�iz�ve�sni�Pa�o�lo,�Ita�li�-jan,�li~�ni�iza�sla�nik�Kar�le�del�Pon�te.�Re�kao�je�da�̀ e�li�da�raz�go�va�ra�sa�m�nomu�do�broj�na�me�ri�i�da�ga�in�te�re�su�je�sa�mo�isti�na.�Ovaj�dru�gi�raz�go�vor�oba�vqenje�u�Be�o�gra�du�9.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�i�tra�jao�je�4�sa�ta�i�35�mi�nu�ta.�Raz�go�vor�je�biosli�~an�onom�pret�hod�nom,�s�tim�{to�mi�je�taj�Pa�o�lo�na�gla�sio�da�je�je�di�ni�na�-~in�da�ja�bu�dem�oslo�bo�|en�od�go�vor�no�sti�za�na�vod�ne�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne�pu�na�i�bez�-u�slov�na�sa�rad�wa�sa�wim.�Sva�ki�~as�je�iz�la�zio,�me�ni�je�kao�biv�{em�po�li�caj�cuja�sno�da�je�iz�la�zio�da�se�kon�sul�tu�je�sa�ne�kim�i�da�je�me�ni�osta�vqao�vre�me�na�dapri�hva�tim�wi�ho�ve�pret�we�i�uce�ne.�Sve�vre�me�raz�go�vo�ra�otvo�re�no�su�me�pri�-54

Page 55: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

ti�ska�li�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�i�na�gla�{a�va�li�da�o�ovo�-me�ne�smem�ni�sa�kim�da�pri�~am.�Nu�di�li�su�mi�azil,�pi�ta�li�u�ko�joj�ze�mqi�bihvo�leo�da�̀ i�vim,�re�kao�sam�da�ne�̀ e�lim�da�idem�iz�Kra�gu�jev�ca,�ali�da�imam�sa�-zna�wa�da�je�le�po�̀ i�ve�ti�u�[vaj�car�skoj,�jer�mi�ta�mo�̀ i�vi�pa�sto�rak.�Taj�Pa�o�loje�re�kao�da�ni�je�ni�ka�kav�pro�blem�da�mi�obez�be�di�azil�u�[vaj�car�skoj,�sa�mo�damo�ra�da�kon�sul�tu�je�svo�je�pret�po�sta�vqe�ne.�Ta�da�mi�je�po�nu�dio�i�fi�nan�sij�skupo�dr�{ku�za�me�ne�i�po�ro�di�cu,�dok�se�na�vod�no�ne�sna�|em�u�toj�no�voj�sre�di�ni.�Na�-gla�sio�je�da�o�to�me�otvo�re�no�ne�smem�da�raz�go�va�ram�ni�sa�po�ro�di�com,�ve}�daih�ne�ka�ko�iz�o�ko�la�pri�pre�mim�za�to,�ma�da�ni�sam�raz�u�meo�ni�ka�ko�ni�za�{to.�Re�-kao�sam�da�mi�ne�pa�da�na�pa�met�da�sve�do�~im,�da�mi�ne�tre�ba�wi�ho�va�za�{ti�ta�ida�mi�je�ja�sno�da�oni�ni�su�ni�sprem�ni�da�re�a�li�zu�ju�ono�{to�obe�}a�va�ju,�jer�miza�taj�bo�ra�vak�u�Be�o�gra�du�ni�su�pla�ti�li�ni�dnev�ni�cu�ni�pu�ne�put�ne�tro�{ko�ve,sa�obra�zlo�̀ e�wem�da�Uje�di�we�ne�na�ci�je�ni�su�is�pla�ti�le�tro�{ko�ve�Ha�{komtri�bu�na�lu�i�da�su�u�fi�na�sij�skoj�osku�di�ci.�Ovo�je�bi�lo�bu�kval�no�~e�ti�ri�i�posa�ta�una�kr�snog�is�pi�ti�va�wa,�vi�{e�pu�ta�su�po�sta�vqa�li�ista�pi�ta�wa,�ali�na�raz�-li�~i�te�na�~i�ne�i�ja�sno�mi�je�bi�lo�da�̀ e�le�da�iz�nu�de�od�go�vor�ko�ji�bi�za�do�vo�qa�-vao�ha�{ko�tu�̀ i�la�{tvo.�Po�{to�sam�od�bio�wi�ho�vu�po�nu�du�za�azil�u�ne�koj�stra�-noj�dr�̀ a�vi�i�wi�ho�vu�fi�nan�sij�sku�po�mo},�kao�i�za�{ti�tu�ko�ju�su�mi�po�nu�di�li�uslu�~a�ju�da�imam�bi�lo�ka�kvih�pro�ble�ma�sa�ne�kim�u�Sr�bi�ji,�pi�tao�me�je�ako�ve}ne�}u�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�da�li�to�zna�~i�da�}u�bi�ti�sve�dok�Vo�ji�sla�-va�[e�{e�qa.�Re�kao�sam�da�to�ni�je�wi�hov�pro�blem�i�da�to�za�vi�si�od�[e�{e�qe�-vog�iz�bo�ra�sve�do�ka�i�da�do�sa�da�ni�sam�imao�ni�ka�kve�kon�tak�te�sa�Ti�mom�za�od�-bra�nu�go�spo�di�na�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�na�{ta�su�mi�oni�re�kli�da�po�sto�ji�ve�li�-ka�ve�ro�vat�no�}a�da�}e�me�po�zva�ti�iz�Ti�ma�go�spo�di�na�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�alida�bi�ja�to�tre�bao�da�od�bi�jem�i�da�u�even�tu�al�nom�mom�po�ja�vqi�va�wu�pred�ve�}emha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�iz�ne�sem�sa�mo�isti�nu,�iako�je�me�ni�ja�sno�da�wih�ne�in�te�re�-su�je�isti�na�ve}�is�kqu�~i�vo�pro�gon�Sr�ba.�U�Kra�gu�jev�cu,�20.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�-di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�srp�ski�~et�ni~�ki�voj�vo�da�Sre}�ko�Ra�do�va�no�vi}.”.

13. Slo�bo�dan�Ze�~e�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�22.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.�2048/07.

“Ja,�Slo�bo�dan�(Bran�ko)�Ze�~e�vi},�ro�|en�28.�10.�1956.�go�di�ne�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu,sa� pre�bi�va�li�{tem� u�Kra�gu�jev�cu,� ul.� Gra�da�Ka�ra�re� br.� 3/15,� lk.� br.� 388241,JMBG�2810956720019,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,� ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,go�vo�rim�srp�ski�je�zik,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�me�ta�lo�glo�da~,�za�po�slen�u�Pred�u�ze�}u�za�pu�-te�ve,

Iz ja vqu jem:Do�pr�vog�kon�tak�ta�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�do�{lo�je�te�le�-

fo�nom�u�pro�le�}e,�ne�se�}am�se�ta~�no�ko�ji�je�me�sec�bio,�mi�slim�mart,�2003.�go�-di�ne.�Po�zva�li�su�me�na�moj�ku}�ni�broj,�ja�vi�la�se�`en�ska�oso�ba,�ne�mo�gu�da�sese�tim�ime�na,�re�kla�je�da�zo�ve�iz�kan�ce�la�ri�je�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du.Pi�ta�la�me�je�da�li�̀ e�lim�sa�wi�ma�da�sa�ra�|u�jem,�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�pro�tiv�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Re�kla�mi�je�da�tre�ba�im�dam�po�dat�ke�gde�sam,�ka�da�i�pre�koko�ga�oti�{ao�na�ra�ti�{te,�da�zna�ju�da�sam�do�bro�vo�qac�i�da�ih�in�te�re�su�je�da�lime�je�po�sla�la�ne�ka�stran�ka�ili�ko�dru�gi.�U�tom�kon�tak�tu,�ona�mi�je�re�kla�da�uslu�~a�ju�da�pri�sta�nem�sa�wi�ma�da�sa�ra�|u�jem,�da�te�re�tim�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,ne�tre�ba�da�bri�nem�za�ma�te�ri�jal�nu�na�dok�na�du.�Ja�sam�im�ka�te�go�ri~�ki�od�go�vo�-

55

Page 56: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

rio�da�me�ne�to�ne�in�te�re�su�je�i�da�se�ja�ne�ba�vim�po�li�ti�kom�i�da�ne�`e�lim�sawi�ma�da�sa�ra�|u�jem.�Ti�me�je�taj�pr�vi�raz�go�vor�za�vr�{en.�Iako�sam�bio�u�svomod�go�vo�ru�na�ta�kve�wi�ho�ve�po�nu�de�sa�svim�ja�san,�ona�mi�je�re�kla�da�raz�mi�slimi�da�}e�me�opet�po�zva�ti�kroz�ne�ko�li�ko�da�na.�Opet�su�po�zva�li�na�kon�15�da�na,ni�sam�bio�kod�ku�}e,�ja�vi�la�se�mo�ja�su�pru�ga,�opet�̀ en�ski�glas,�su�pru�ga�je�re�klada�ni�sam�tre�nut�no�tu.�Pro�{lo�je�sa�mo�par�da�na�i�u�ve�~er�wim�sa�ti�ma�je�po�zva�-la�ista�̀ en�ska�oso�ba,�kao�i�pr�vi�put,�ta�da�sam�se�ja�ja�vio,�opet�se�pred�sta�vi�lai�re�kla�da�zo�ve�iz�kan�ce�la�ri�je�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Pi�ta�la�me�je�dali�sam�raz�mi�slio�o�wi�ho�voj�po�nu�di�i�da�ako�je�sam�da�}e�da�mi�po�{a�qu�for�mu�-lar�ko�ji�ja�tre�ba�da�po�pu�nim�ka�ko�bi�ot�po�~e�li�sa�rad�wu.�Re�kla�je�i�to�da�ne�tre�-ba�da�bri�nem�zbog�fi�nan�si�ja,�ako�pri�sta�nem�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�dr�Vo�ji�sla�-va�[e�{e�qa�da�}e�mi�na�dok�na�di�ti�i�do�la�zak�u�Be�o�grad�i�sve�{to�bu�de�bi�lo�po�-treb�no,�da�}u�bi�ti�fi�nan�sij�ski�obez�be�|en.�Opet�sam�joj�po�no�vio�da�ne�`e�limsa�rad�wu�sa�wi�ma�i�da�me�vi�{e�ne�uz�ne�mi�ra�va�ju�i�po�zi�va�ju.�Od�ta�da�se�vi�{e�ni�-su�ja�vqa�li.�U�Kra�gu�jev�cu,�22.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�noi�bez�pri�ti�sa�ka.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Slo�bo�dan�Ze�~e�vi}.”.

14. Slav�ko�Alek�si}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�-na�u�Osnov�nom�su�du�u�Tre�bi�wu�pod�095-O-OV- H-07-000044.�

“Ja,�Slav�ko�Alek�si},�iz�Bi�le�}e,� li~�na�kar�ta�broj� 04FAA4379,� JMBG0109956172685,�sa�adre�som�Bog�da�{i�}i,�Bi�le�}a,

Iz ja vqu jem:Me�ne�su�jo{�2002.�go�di�ne�tra�̀ i�li�iz�kan�ce�la�ri�je�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�Ha�{kog

tri�bu�na�la�ra�di�’raz�go�vo�ra’�ka�ko�su�ta�da�go�vo�ri�li.�Ko�na~�no,�me�sec�da�na�predo�bro�voq�nog�od�la�ska�dr�[e�{e�qa�u�Hag,�ja�nu�a�ra�2003.�u�Bi�le�}i�sam�se�sa�staosa�Jan�Van�Hec�ke.�Ni�ti�sam�~uo�u�me�di�ji�ma�da�je�go�to�va�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�pro�tiv�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ni�ti�sam�to�znao.�Ovaj,�Jan�Van�Hec�ke,�sa�ko�jim�sam�raz�go�va�-rao,�to�je�Bel�gij�ski�advo�kat�ko�ji�je�ra�dio�u�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvu�(bar�se�ta�ko�pred�sta�-vio).�On�mi�je�re�kao�da�je�on�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a�od�veo�iz�Ba�taj�ni�ce�u�ba�zu�u�Tu�zli,Orao.�Iz�Tu�zle�su�vaq�da,�oti�{li�za�Hag.

Re�kao�mi�je�da�je�to�isto�u~i�nio�sa�ge�ne�ra�lom�Ga�li�}em,�ko�man�dan�tom�Sa�-ra�jev�sko-ro�ma�nij�skog�kor�pu�sa.

Zna�~i,�{ta�je�bi�lo�na�tom�sa�stan�ku:�Re�kao�mi�je�da�je�we�go�va�{e�fi�ca�Kar�-la�del�Pon�te,�da�sa�mo�woj�po�la�̀ e�ra�~u�ne�i�ni�ko�me�dru�gom.�Ta�ko�|e�mi�je�re�-kao�da�je�ra�dio�u�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvu�do�1997.�go�di�ne;�u�Ha�gu�–�ta�ko�se�bar,�pred�sta�-vio.�Me�ne�je,�iz�me�|u�osta�log,�in�te�re�so�va�lo�za�{ta�me�op�tu�̀ u�ju.�Eto,�on�da�samsa�znao�od�we�ga�da�je�re~�o�uobi�~a�je�noj�op�tu�̀ ni�ci;�zlo�~i�ni�pro�tiv,�ka�ko�to�onika�rak�te�ri�{u,�za�ko�na�i�obi�~a�ja�ra�ta,�snaj�pe�ri�sa�we�i�gra�na�ti�ra�we�po�Sa�ra�je�-vu,�si�lo�va�wa�i�ubi�stva,�ko�ri�{}e�we�mu�sli�ma�na�kao�`i�vog�{ti�ta�–�{to�ne�mabla�ge�ve�ze�ni�sa�~im.�

Van�Hec�ke�mi�je�ta�da�re�kao�da�}e�me�~a�sti�ti�da�od�le�̀ im�de�set�do�pet�na�-est�go�di�na�gde�ja�ho�}u.�Po�tu�rio�mi�je�pod�nos�pa�pir�da�pot�pi�{em�sa�rad�wu�saTu�̀ i�la�{tvom.�To�je�po�no�vio�dva,�tri�pu�ta.�̂ ak�me�je�i�mo�lio.�Re�kao�je�ka�ko�jeugod�no�pri�~a�ti�sa�mnom,�da�su�~u�li�za�me�ne�da�sam�bio�ko�man�dant�jed�ne�je�di�-ni�ce,�da�tre�ba�da�se�oprav�dam�pred�su�dom�da�ja�ni�sam�zlo�~i�nac�i�ta�ko�da�qe.Nu�dio�mi�je�pa�pir�da�pot�pi�{em.�Za�uslu�gu�je�tra�̀ io�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�na�mo�je�ve�li�ko�iz�ne�na�|e�we,�jer�ja�ni�sam�ni�znao�da�je�op�tu�-56

Page 57: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

`en;�pro�tiv�Mom�~i�la�Kra�ji�{ni�ka,�ge�ne�ra�la�Ga�li�}a�i�ta�ko�da�qe.U�dva,�tri�na�vra�ta�je�to�po�ku�{a�vao:�’Haj�de,�mo�lim�te,�pot�pi�{i�pa�pir...�ti

si�do�bar�~o�vek;�ti�si�ovo,�ti�si�ono...’Uglav�nom,�sa�sta�nak�je�tra�jao�sat�vre�me�na.�Dao�mi�je�vi�zit-kar�tu,�da�ako�se

pre�do�mi�slim�da�mu�se�ja�vim.�Na�rav�no,�ni�sam�se�ni�kad�ja�vio.�Jo{�mi�je�re�kao:’Bo�ji{�li�se�ako�do�|e�mo�da�te�uhap�si�mo?’�Ja�sam�mu�re�kao�da�ja�ni�sam�~o�vekko�ji�se�pre�da�je.�

Da�kle,�me�ne�je�Van�Hec�ke�usme�no�upo�znao�sa�tim�da�je�mo�ja�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�po�-de�be�la�i�ja�sam�to�ozbiq�no�shva�tio,�s�ob�zi�rom�da�su�ve}�po�ku�{a�li�dva�pu�ta�dame�uhap�se.�Pr�vi�put�6.�ju�na�1996.�go�di�ne�u�Lu�ka�vi�ci;�dru�gi�put�10.�ju�la�ka�da�jeubi�jen�Si�mo�Dr�qa�~a�u�Do�bo�ju�–�isti�dan�na�ve�~e�u�21.30�1997.�go�di�ne.

Van�Hec�ke,�mi�je�kon�kret�no�po�nu�dio�sa�rad�wu�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ bepro�tiv�[e�{e�qa,�Kra�ji�{ni�ka,�Ga�li}a�i�ta�ko�da�qe.�Zauz�vrat�bih�bio�na�gra�-|en�ili�ma�lom�ka�znom,�ili�nov�cem�ili�dru�gim�iden�ti�te�tom.�^ak�mi�je�pri�-~ao�za�jed�nog�(ve�ro�vat�no�ih�ima�vi�{e)�da�su�mu�da�li�no�vi�iden�ti�tet,�da�`i�-vi�u�Ka�na�di.

Pa�pir�ko�ji�su�mi�u�dva-tri�na�vra�ta�nu�di�li�da�pot�pi�{em,�bio�je�na�en�gle�-skom�i�sa�dr�̀ a�vao�je�eto,�ka�ko�oni�to�na�zi�va�ju�da�sam�ja�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ be.�Ja�sla�-bo�po�zna�jem�en�gle�ski,�ali�su�mo�ji�pri�ja�te�qi�ko�ji�su�bi�li�sa�mnom�i�pre�vo�di�-li�mi�pre�ve�li.

Jo{�mi�je�re�~e�no�da�bih�bio�sve�dok�pro�tiv�svih�~i�ja�je�op�tu�̀ ni�ca�ve�za�naza�Sa�ra�je�vo,�ta�ko�|e�u�slu�~a�ju�[e�{e�qa�za�Sa�ra�je�vo.

Moj�od�go�vor�na�po�nu�du�Van�Hec�kea�bio�je�ne�ga�ti�van.�On�mi�je�dao�svo�ju�vi�-zit-kar�tu�i�we�gov�li~�ni�broj�u�slu�~a�ju�da�se�pre�do�mi�slim.

Na�kra�ju�mi�je,�u�vi�{e�na�vra�ta,�po�no�vio�da�bih�ja�bio�dra�go�ce�ni�ji...�od�ne�-pro�ce�wi�ve�va�̀ no�sti�kao�sve�dok�op�tu�̀ be�ne�go�kao�osum�wi�~e�ni!�Iz�ja�va�je�da�-ta�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Ti�ma�za�od�bra�nu�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�U�Bi�le�}i,�19.�fe�-bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Pod�no�si�lac�iz�ja�ve�Slav�ko�Alek�si}”.

15. Vla�di�mir�De�a�no�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Pan�~e�vu�pod�Ov.�br.�2401/07.

“Ja�Vla�di�mir�(Du�{a�na)�De�a�no�vi},�ro�|en�u�Za�gre�bu�da�na�10.�2.�1930.�go�di�-ne,�broj�li~�ne�kar�te�139930�iz�da�ta�od�stran�ke�Se�kre�ta�ri�ja�ta�unu�tra�{wih�po�-slo�va�u�Pan�~e�vu,�JMBG�1002930860057�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�Pan�~e�vu�uli�caVoj�vo�de�Ra�do�mi�ra�Put�ni�ka�broj�5,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�vestpra�vo�slav�na,�go�vo�rim�srp�skim�i�ne�ma~�kim�je�zi�kom,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�di�plo�mi�ra�-ni�ve�te�ri�nar�spe�ci�ja�li�sta�u�pen�zi�ji,

Iz ja vqu jem:Da�na�24.�januara�2007.�go�di�ne,�u�11.00�~a�so�va�sreo�sam�se�sa�Gla�mo�~a�nin�Jo�-

va�nom�iz�Pan�~e�va�u�re�sto�ra�nu�’Park’�u�Pan�~e�vu.�U�raz�go�vo�ru�sa�Gla�mo�~a�ni�-nom�on�je�iz�ja�vio:�u�2003.�go�di�ni,�po�sle�ubi�stva�pred�sed�ni�ka�vla�de�Re�pu�bli�keSr�bi�je�Zo�ra�na�\in�|i�}a�bio�po�zvan�od�stra�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�-la�na�sa�slu�{a�we�u�kan�ce�la�ri�ju�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du.�U�toj�kan�ce�la�-ri�ji�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�su�ga�is�pi�ti�va�li�4�da�na.�Sep�tem�bra�me�se�ca�2006.�go�di�ne�ha�-{ki�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�su�ga�is�pi�ti�va�li�po�dru�gi�put�u�tra�ja�wu�od�3�da�na�u�we�go�-vom�sta�nu�u�Pan�~e�vu,�po�ku�{a�va�ju�}i�da�ga�pri�do�bi�ju�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�u�Ha�{kom�tri�bu�na�lu.�Pri�li�kom�is�pi�ti�va�wa�oba�pu�ta,

57

Page 58: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Gla�mo�~a�nin�je�re�kao�da�su�na�we�ga�vr�{i�li�pri�ti�sak�da�su�ga�uce�wi�va�li�i�pre�-ti�li�mu�da�}e�ga�od�ve�sti�u�Hag�na�si�lu,�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tivprof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Pri�li�kom�is�pi�ti�va�wa�oba�pu�ta�is�tra�̀ i�te�qisu�nu�di�li�Gla�mo�~a�ni�nu�1.000.000,00�do�la�ra,�pro�me�nu�iden�ti�te�ta�i�ga�ran�to�va�-li�mu�pro�me�nu�me�sta�bo�rav�ka�u�ne�koj�dru�goj�dr�̀ a�vi,�ka�ko�we�mu�ta�ko�i�we�go�-voj�po�ro�di�ci.�Me�|u�tim,�Gla�mo�~a�nin�je�iz�ja�vio�da�je�od�bio�da�bu�de�sve�dok�op�-tu�̀ be�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�da�je�mo�rao�pod�pri�ti�skom�ipret�wa�ma�da�pot�pi�{e�svo�ju�iz�ja�vu�ko�ja�je�pi�sa�na�na�en�gle�skom�je�zi�ku,�ko�ja�muni�je�pro�~i�ta�na�na�srp�skom�je�zi�ku�i�da�ni�sam�ne�zna�{ta�je�u�toj�iz�ja�vi�na�pi�sa�-no�ko�ju�je�mo�rao�pot�pi�sa�ti�pod�pri�nu�dom�i�pri�ti�skom�i�da�je�ni�ka�da�ne�}e�kaota�kvu�pri�zna�ti,�jer�ni�je�na�pi�sa�na�na�srp�skom�je�zi�ku,�dok�en�gle�ski�je�zik�ne�raz�-u�me.�U�to�ku�is�pi�ti�va�wa�Gla�mo�~a�nin�Jo�van�je�re�kao�Ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�mada�ni�za��{ta�ne�mo�̀ e�da�op�tu�̀ i�ili�okri�vi�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�jer�se�ra�di�o~a�snom�i�po�{te�nom�~o�ve�ku.�Na�kra�ju�raz�go�vo�ra�u�re�sto�ra�nu�’Park’�u�Pan�~e�-vu,�Gla�mo�~a�nin�mi�je�iz�ja�vio�da�je�ve�o�ma�za�bri�nut�za�se�be�i�svo�ju�po�ro�di�cu,�jermu�je�ozbiq�no�za�pre�}e�no�od�stra�ne�Ha�{kih�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�da�mo�ra�da�sve�do�~ipro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Ovom�raz�go�vo�ru� pri�su�stvo�vao� je� i�La�ti�no�vi}@ar�ko�iz�Pan�~e�va.�Ja�De�a�no�vi}�Vla�di�mir�ovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�bezika�kvog�pri�ti�ska�i�pri�nu�de.�U�Pan�~e�vu,�19.�fe�bru�ar�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�daoDe�a�no�vi}�Vla�di�mir.”

16. @ar�ko�La�ti�no�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�19.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�-re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Pan�~e�vu�pod�Ov.�br.�2400/07.

“Ja�@ar�ko�(Ili�je)�La�ti�no�vi},�ro�|en�u�Pod�sr�ne�ti�}i�-�Brav�sko,�Bo�san�skiPe�tro�vac,�da�na�29.�09.�1946.�go�di�ne,�broj�li~�ne�kar�te�307155�iz�da�ta�od�stran�keSe�kre�ta�ri�ja�ta�unu�tra�{wih�po�slo�va�u�Pan�~e�vu,�JMBG�2909946860064�sa�pre�-bi�va�li�{tem�u�Pan�~e�vu,�uli�ca�Bra�}e�Jo�va�no�vi�}a�broj�42,�po�na�ci�o�nal�no�stiSr�bin,�ve�ro�i�spo�vest�pra�vo�slav�na,�go�vo�rim�srp�skim�je�zi�kom,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�sampri�vat�ni�pred�u�zet�nik,�

Iz ja vqu jem:Da�na�24.�januara�2007.�go�di�ne,�u�11.00�~a�so�va�sreo�sam�se�sa�Gla�mo�~a�nin�Jo�-

va�nom�iz�Pan�~e�va�u�re�sto�ra�nu�’Park’�u�Pan�~e�vu.�U�raz�go�vo�ru�sa�Gla�mo�~a�ni�-nom�on�je�iz�ja�vio:�u�2003.�go�di�ni�po�sle�ubi�stva�pred�sed�ni�ka�vla�de�Re�pu�bli�keSr�bi�je�Zo�ra�na�\in�|i�}a�bio�po�zvan�od�stra�ne�is�tra�̀ i�te�wa�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�-la�na�sa�slu�{a�we�u�kan�ce�la�ri�ju�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�u�Be�o�gra�du.�U�toj�kan�ce�la�-ri�ji�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�su�ga�is�pi�ti�va�li�4�da�na.�Sep�tem�bra�me�se�ca�2006.�go�di�ne�ha�-{ki�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�su�ga�is�pi�ti�va�li�po�dru�gi�put�u�tra�ja�wu�od�3�da�na�u�we�go�-vom�sta�nu�u�Pan�~e�vu�po�ku�{a�va�ju�}i�da�ga�pri�do�bi�ju�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tiv�prof.dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa�u�Ha�{kom�tri�bu�na�lu.�Pri�li�kom�is�pi�ti�va�wa�oba�pu�taGla�mo�~a�nin�je�re�kao�da�su�na�we�ga�vr�{i�li�pri�ti�sak�da�su�ga�uce�wi�va�li�i�pre�-ti�li�mu�da�}e�ga�od�ve�sti�u�Hag�na�si�lu�ako�ne�pri�sta�ne�da�sve�do�~i�pro�tivprof.�dr.�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Pri�li�kom�is�pi�ti�va�wa�oba�pu�ta�is�tra�̀ i�te�qisu�nu�di�li�Gla�mo�~a�ni�nu�1.000.000,00�do�la�ra,�pro�me�nu�iden�ti�te�ta�i�ga�ran�to�va�-li�mu�pro�me�nu�me�sta�bo�rav�ka�u�ne�koj�dru�goj�dr�̀ a�vi�ka�ko�we�mu�ta�ko�i�we�go�vojpo�ro�di�ci.�Me�|u�tim,�Gla�mo�~a�nin�je�iz�ja�vio�da�je�od�bio�da�bu�de�sve�dok�op�tu�-`be�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ali�da�je�mo�rao�pod�pri�ti�skom�ipret�wa�ma�da�pot�pi�{e�svo�ju�iz�ja�vu�ko�ja��je�pi�sa�na�na�en�gle�skom�je�zi�ku,�ko�ja�mu58

Page 59: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

ni�je�pro�~i�ta�na�na�srp�skom�je�zi�ku�i�da�ni�sam�ne�zna�{ta�je�u�toj�iz�ja�vi�na�pi�sa�-no�ko�ju�je�mo�rao�pot�pi�sa�ti�pod�pri�nu�dom�i�pri�ti�skom�i�da��je�ni�ka�da�ne�}e�kaota�kvu�pri�zna�ti,�jer�ni�je�na�pi�sa�na�na�srp�skom�je�zi�ku�dok�en�gle�ski�je�zik�ne�raz�-u�me.�U�to�ku�is�pi�ti�va�wa�Gla�mo�~a�nin�Jo�van�je�re�kao�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�mada�ni�za��{ta�ne�mo�̀ e�da�op�tu�̀ i�ili�okri�vi�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�jer�se�ra�di�o~a�snom�i�po�{te�nom�~o�ve�ku.�Na�kra�ju�raz�go�vo�ra�u�re�sto�ra�nu�’Park’�u�Pan�~e�-vu,�Gla�mo�~a�nin�mi�je�iz�ja�vio�da�je�ve�o�ma�za�bri�nut�za�se�be�i�svo�ju�po�ro�di�cu,�jermu�je�ozbiq�no�za�pre�}e�no�od�stra�ne�ha�{kih�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�da�mo�ra�da�sve�do�~ipro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Ovom�raz�go�vo�ru�pri�su�stvo�vao�je�i�De�a�no�vi}�Vla�-di�mir�iz�Pan�~e�va.�U�Pan�~e�vu,�19.�fe�bru�ar�2007.�go�di�ne.�Ja�La�ti�no�vi}�@ar�koovu�iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska�i�pri�nu�de.”.�

17. @i�vo�mir�Avra�mo�vi}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�28.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�neove�re�na�u�Op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�pod�Ov.�br.�2469/07,�sa�pri�lo�gom�po�-zi�va�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�ko�ji�je�pro�na�{ao�na�ula�znim�vra�ti�ma�sta�nai�vi�zit-kar�tom�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�To�ma�sa�Ak�haj�ma.

“Ja,�@i�vo�mir�(Mi�lan)�Avra�mo�vi},�ro�|en�8.�5.�1953.�go�di�ne�u�To�po�li,�sapre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu,�ul.�Da�rin�ke�Ra�do�vi}�7,�lk.�br.�359781,�JMBG0805953720084,� na�ci�o�nal�nost:� Sr�bin,� ve�ro�i�spo�vest:� pra�vo�slav�na,� go�vo�rimsrp�ski�je�zik,�po�za�ni�ma�wu�bra�var,�za�po�slen�u�’Za�sta�va�ka�mi�o�ni’,�

Iz ja vqu jem:Po�~et�kom�2003.�go�di�ne,�na�ula�zna�vra�ta�mo�je�ku�}e,�is�tra�̀ i�teq�Ha�{kog

tri�bu�na�la�To�mas�Ak�hajm�je�za�ka�~io�po�ru�ku,�na�pi�sa�nu�la�ti�ni~�nim�i�}i�ri�li~�-nim�pi�smom,�a�u�ko�joj�me�oba�ve�{ta�va�da�me�tra�̀ i�i�da�`e�li�hit�no�sa�mnom�daraz�go�va�ra.U�po�ru�ci�je�na�pi�san�broj�te�le�fo�na�kan�ce�la�ri�je,�ime�pre�vo�di�o�ca�ivre�me�od�9�do�17.30�sva�kog�rad�nog�da�na�da�im�se�ja�vim.�Uz�po�ru�ku�je�osta�vio�isvo�ju�vi�zit�kar�tu.�Od�kom�{i�ja�sam�sa�znao�da�su�me�~e�ka�li�ceo�dan�i�ja�sam�ihuju�tru�po�zvao�iz�po�{te.�Ja�vi�la�se�ta�`e�na�pre�vo�di�lac�i�pi�ta�la�da�li�mo�gu�dado�|em�u�Be�o�grad�da�ta�mo�bu�dem�tri,�~e�ti�ri�da�na�ka�ko�bi�ha�{ki�is�tra�̀ i�teqTo�mas�Ak�hajm�oba�vio�sa�mnom�raz�go�vor.�Od�bio�sam�da�idem�u�Be�o�grad,�a�onaje�re�kla�da�sam�iza�be�rem�me�sto�u�Kra�gu�jev�cu�gde�bi�smo�mo�gli�da�raz�go�va�ra�mo.I�do�go�vo�ri�li�smo�se�da�se�dva�da�na�po�sle�tog�raz�go�vo�ra�u�10�sa�ti�na�|e�mo�u�ho�-te�lu�’Kra�gu�je�vac’.�U�za�ka�za�no�vre�me�do�{li�su�taj�To�mas�Ak�hajm,�`e�na�pre�vo�-di�lac�i�jo{�jed�na�`e�na,�~i�je�ime�ni�sam�za�pam�tio.�Od�mah�su�mi�re�kli�da�onizna�ju�da�sam�ja�u~e�stvo�vao�u�ra�tu,�ali�su�`e�le�li�da�im�ka�̀ em�da�li�sam�~lanSrp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke,�da�li�sam�vi�|ao�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�da�li�je�[e�-{eq�do�la�zio�na�ra�ti�{te,�s�kim�sam�ja�ta�mo�oti�{ao,�ko�nam�je�dao�uni�for�mui�na�o�ru�̀ a�we.�Re�kao�sam�im�da�ni�ka�da�ni�sam�bio�~lan�ni�jed�ne�stran�ke,�da�sam[e�{e�qa�vi�|ao�sa�mo�na�te�le�vi�zi�ji�i�da�ne�znam�od�ko�ga�smo�do�bi�li�uni�for�mei�na�o�ru�̀ a�we.�Pi�ta�li�su�da�li�bih�ja�sve�do�~io�pro�tiv�dr�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qau�Ha�gu�i�re�kli�da�mo�gu�slo�bod�no�da�pri�sta�nem,�jer�}e�oni�da�za�{ti�te�i�me�nei�mo�ju�po�ro�di�cu.�Ja�sam�to�ka�te�go�ri~�ki�od�bio,�a�oni�su�in�si�sti�ra�li�da�do�|emu�Be�o�grad�da�me�ta�mo�sa�slu�{a�ju,�da�me�’ob�ra�de’�i�da�}e�oni�sno�si�ti�tro�{ko�vemog�pu�to�va�wa�i�bo�rav�ka�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Po�no�vio�sam�da�ne�`e�lim�da�do�|em�u�Be�-o�grad�i�da�ne�}u�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�Pre�ovog�raz�go�vo�raja�sam�se�obra�tio�advo�ka�tu�Ta�to�mi�ru�Le�ko�vi�}u�za�to�{to�sam�znao�da�on�bra�-ni�ne�ke�qu�de�ko�ji�su�op�tu�̀ e�ni�za�rat�ne�zlo�~i�ne,�jer�sam�mi�slio�da�on�mo�̀ e�da

59

Page 60: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

mi�po�mog�ne�ne�kim�sa�ve�tom.�Bio�sam�iz�ne�na�|en�ka�da�mi�je�Le�ko�vi}�re�kao�datre�ba�oba�ve�zno�da�raz�go�va�ram�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma,�jer�ako�to�od�bi�jemda�}u�ja�bi�ti�op�tu�̀ en�u�Ha�gu�za�jed�no�sa�Go�ra�nom�Si�mo�vi�}em�zva�nim�Tra�qa�iZo�ra�nom�La�zo�vi�}em�zva�nim�La�za,�zbog�ne�kog�rat�nog�zlo�~i�na�ko�ji�se�na�vod�node�sio�u�Cr�kvi�na�ma.�Pi�tao�sam�ga�ka�ko�on�to�zna,�da�li�on�ra�di�za�Ha�{ki�tri�-bu�nal,�na�{ta�mi�je�on�sa�mo�re�kao�da�oba�ve�zno�idem�da�dam�iz�ja�vu.�Po�sle�ovograz�go�vo�ra�ni�sam�vi�{e�imao�kon�tak�te�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.U�Kra�gu�jev�cu,�28.�fe�bru�a�ra�2007.�go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�i�bez�pri�-ti�ska.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�@i�vo�mir�Avra�mo�vi}.”

18. Jan�ko�La�ki}�je�dao�iz�ja�vu,�ko�ja�je�2.�mar�ta�2007.�go�di�ne�ove�re�na�u�̂ e�tvr�-tom�op�{tin�skom�su�du�u�Be�o�gra�du�pod�IVOv.�br.�3023/07.

“Ja�Jan�ko�(Vu�ja�di�na)�La�ki},�ro�|en�19.�sep�tem�bra�1962.�go�di�ne�u�Ze�li�wu,Op�{ti�na�Zvor�nik,�Re�pu�bli�ka�Bo�sna�i�Her�cr�go�vi�na,�sa�pre�bi�va�li�{tem�u�Ma�-lom� Zvor�ni�ku,� ul.� Ri�bar�ska� br.� 5,� sa� pa�so�{em� broj:� 4588388,� JMBG1909962183907,� po� na�ci�o�nal�no�sti�Sr�bin,� ve�ro�i�spo�vest� pra�vo�slav�na,� dr�̀ a�-vqan�stvo�Sr�bi�je�i�Bo�sne�i�Her�ce�go�vi�ne,�go�vo�rim�srp�ski�je�zik,�ne�za�po�slen,pret�hod�no�za�ni�ma�we�ko�no�bar,

Iz ja vqu jem:Do�mog�pr�vog�kon�tak�ta�sa�pred�stav�ni�ci�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva�do�{lo�je�u�le�to

2003.�go�di�ne,�a�po�~e�lo�je�te�le�fon�skim�po�zi�vi�ma.�Vi�{e�pu�ta�su�zva�li,�po�ro�di�-ca�mi�je�pre�no�si�la�da�me�tra�̀ i�ne�ka�̀ e�na.�Me�ni�je�bi�lo�sum�wi�vo,�ni�sam�znaoko�bi�to�me�ne�mo�gao�zva�ti�na�moj�broj.�Je�da�nog�da�na,�sre�di�nom�av�gu�sta,�ja�samse�ja�vio�na�te�le�fon�ka�da�je�ta�̀ e�na�zva�la.�Ona�se�pred�sta�vi�la�kao�pre�vo�di�lacMa�ri�na�Voj�vo�di},�i�re�kla�je�da�je�kraj�we�tim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa,�Yona�tan�Ha�ris,En�glez,�i�Irac�Yerald,�ne�se�}am�se�pre�zi�me�na.�Re�kli�su�da�`e�le�sa�mnom�daraz�go�va�ra�ju�o�ne�mi�lim�do�ga�|a�ji�ma�iz�pro�{log�ra�ta.�Po�{to�sam�ja�mi�slio�dase�ne�ko�ze�za�iz�mog�okru�̀ e�wa,�ja�sam�tra�̀ io�da�se�pre�ki�ne�ta�ve�za,�pa�}e�mo�se~u�ti�na�kon�15�mi�nu�ta.�I�ta�ko�je�ura�|e�no.�Na�zo�vem�ja�sva�sti�ku�u�Be�o�gra�du,�ko�-ja�zna�en�gle�ski,�i�ka�̀ em�joj�ove�bro�je�ve�ko�je�sam�uzeo�od�wih.�Na�kra�ju�kra�je�va,bi�lo�je�ve�ro�vat�no�tu�ne�kih�po�zi�va,�ali�ot�kud�ba{�iz�Ha�ga�da�me�di�rekt�no�zo�-vu.�I�ona�je�na�zva�la�te�bro�je�ve�i�oni�su�se�ja�vi�li�na�te�bro�je�ve.�Eto,�na�kon�15-20�mi�nu�ta�na�zva�li�su�i�taj�raz�go�vor�je�i{ao�ta�ko�{to�su�oni�tra�̀ i�li�od�me�neda�se�na�|e�mo,�re�kli�su�mi�}e�mo�do�}i�ako�`e�li�te�u�Be�o�grad�ili�Sa�ra�je�vo,�aliako�vi�mi�sli�te�da�va�ma�ni�je�bez�bed�no�da�tu�da�te�iz�ja�vu,�vi�mo�̀ e�te�iza�bra�ti�ze�-mqu�u�ko�ju�vi�`e�li�te�u}i�i�mi�}e�mo�sve�or�ga�ni�zo�va�ti�da�bi�ste�da�li�iz�ja�vu.�Jasam�ta�da�ot�pri�li�ke�wi�ma�re�kao�da�ja�imam�mo�ju�dr�̀ a�vu,�ja�ne�ve�ru�jem�da�je�tota�ko�mo�gu�}e,�on�da�ako�oni�me�ne�zo�vu�ja,�re�koh,�mo�ram�da�vi�dim,�da�se�kon�sul�tu�-jem.�Ne�mo�gu�ja�tek�ta�ko�da�pri�sta�nem�na�raz�go�vor.�Ka�da�smo�za�vr�{i�li�taj�raz�-go�vor,�ja�sje�dim�sa�̀ e�nom�i�ka�̀ em�ko�me�ja�sa�da�da�se�obra�tim.�Da�idem�u�po�li�-ci�ju,�is�pa�dam�sam�se�bi�smije�{an,�ja�fak�ti~�ki�u�mo�joj�dr�̀ a�vi�ne�mam�ko�me�da�seobra�tim.�

Oni�su�upor�no�na�sta�vi�li�da�ziv�ka�ju,�i�kad�je�me�ni�do�sa�di�lo�ja�sam�im�re�-kao:�’U�re�du,�ja�se�ne�}u�od�lu�~i�va�ti�ni�za�ka�kve�dru�ge�ze�mqe,�ja�}u�do�}i�u�va�-{u�dr�̀ a�vu,�u�mo�ju�dr�̀ a�vu’.�Oni�ka�̀ u�–�pa�ka�ko�to?�Pa�re�koh�–�je�su�va�{e�kan�-ce�la�ri�je�u�Be�o�gra�du,�i�pri�stao�sam�da�do�|em�u�uli�cu�Je�vre�ma�Gru�ji�}a�broj�11,tu�su�im�ne�ka�kve�kan�ce�la�ri�je,�i�tu�sam�do�{ao�4.�ok�to�bra�2003.�go�di�ne.�Re�kao60

Page 61: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

sam�im�te�le�fo�nom�da�ja�ni�ka�kvu�iz�ja�vu�ne�}u�da�ti,�a�ka�mo�li�pot�pi�sa�ti.�Onisu�opet�in�si�sti�ra�li�da�se�vi�di�mo.�I�ka�da�sam�ta�mo�do�{ao�bio�je�na�ula�zu�ne�-ki�po�li�ca�jac,�ko�ji�nas�je�pro�pu�stio,�ni�je�ni�{ta�ni�pre�tre�sao.�U|em�go�re,�po�-peo�sam�se�u�pot�kro�vqe,�jer�je�to,�~i�ni�mi�se,�sprat�i�mo�̀ da�pot�kro�vqe.�Vi�-dim�ko�si�zi�do�vi,�si�gur�no�su,�re�koh,�na�vr�hu.�Ta�̀ e�na�je�iza�{la�pred�nas,�pre�-vo�di�lac,�ja�sam�imao�svog�pre�vo�di�o�ca,�ni�sam�hteo�da�pri�sta�nem�da�do�|em�dokoni�na�to�ne�pri�sta�nu.�Oni�ka�̀ u�da�je�to�kr�{e�we�wi�ho�vog�Sta�tu�ta,�re�koh�jane�}u�da�do�|em,�{ta�me�bri�ga,�i�na�kra�ju�su�pri�sta�li.�Zna�~i,�nas�dvo�je�smo�do�-{li,�po�pe�li�se�go�re,�u�tom�tre�nut�ku�ka�da�smo�mi�u{li�i�sje�li�do�{la�su�tadva�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�iz�ne�ke�dru�ge�pro�sto�ri�je,�ali�ne�znam�oda�kle.�I�on�da�suoni�po�~e�li.�Ja�sam�do�{ao�za�to�{to�sam�se�pla�{io�da�oni�ima�ju�na�me�ru�me�-ne�da�hap�se,�pa�da�ja�ne�bih�do�{ao�u�si�tu�a�ci�ju�da�ova�na�{a�po�li�ci�ja�i�oni�do�-|u�da�me�pred�dje�te�tom�hap�se,�da�se�bru�kam�i�da�mi�po�ro�di�ca�do�̀ i�vqa�va�ne�-pri�jat�no�sti,�ja�sam�sa�mo�za�to�oti�{ao.

I�ka�da�smo�do�{li�oni�ka�̀ u,�stan�dar�dan�uvod,�pr�vo�ka�̀ u�ka�ko�ste�pu�to�va�-li,�ho�}e�te�li�sok,�ho�}e�te�li�ka�fi�cu.�Ja�sam�od�bio�sve.�On�da�su�oni�po�~e�li�pri�-~a�ti�ka�ko�su�se,�eto,�do�go�di�li�stra�vi~�ni�zlo�~i�ni,�ka�ko�ovo,�ka�ko�ono.�Ka�da�samja�ugra�bio�pr�vu�pri�li�ku,�ja�sam�wi�ma�re�kao�ovo�{to�pi�{e�u�no�vi�na�ma,�ja�sampri�pad�nik�S^P,�ne�pa�da�mi�na�pa�met�s�va�ma�da�pri�~am�na�te�mu�ra�ta�i�uko�li�-ko�mi�sli�te�da�me�to�pi�ta�te,�ja�od�ovog�mo�men�ta�}u�tim�i�mi�smo�za�vr�{i�li�raz�-go�vor.�A�ako�`e�li�te�da�me�uhap�si�te,�ako�sam�ja�ne�{to�kriv,�haj�de�bra�te�le�pouhap�si�te,�a�ne�dam�vam�~ast�ni�za�{ta.�On�da�su�oni�}u�ta�li�mi�nut-dva,�i�ta�ko�sena�kon�po�la�sa�ta�taj�pr�vi�su�sret�za�vr�{io.�Ja�iza�|em�i�odem�ku�}i.�Oni�ka�̀ u�daim�je�`ao�{to�se�to�ta�ko�za�vr�{i�lo.�Eto,�to�je�bio�pr�vi�su�sret.

Zna�~i,�ja�sam�re�kao�da�ne�}u�da�pri�~am�o�rat�nim�do�ga�|a�ji�ma.�Pre�ko�po�lasa�ta�sam�se�ja�za�dr�̀ ao,�ja�sam�wi�ma�re�kao�–�qu�di,�da�li�vi�zna�te�{ta�tra�̀ i�teod�jed�nog�Sr�bi�na?�Ne�sa�mo�za�me�ne.�Vi�tra�̀ i�te�da�ja�bu�dem�u�mo�joj�ku�}i�VukBran�ko�vi},�ne�tre�ba�mi�ni�{ta�da�qe.�Sa�mo�u�mo�joj�ku�}i.�Re�kao�sam�im�i�da�ne�-ma�tih�pa�ra�za�ko�je�bih�sve�do�~io�pro�tiv�[e�{e�qa.

E,�on�da�su�oni�na�kon�par�da�na�po�no�vi�li�po�ziv,�ja�ka�̀ em�ne�}u�da�kon�tak�-ti�ram.Oni�su�in�si�sti�ra�li�da�tre�ba�da�se�vi�di�mo,�da�ima�ju�ne�{to�va�̀ no,�ja�ka�-`em�ako�je�va�̀ no�re�ci�te�na�te�le�fon,�{to�se�mo�ra�mo�vi�|a�ti.�Re�kli�su�da�ni�jete�le�fon,�i�da�qe�su�na�va�qi�va�li�i�ka�da�mi�je�do�sa�di�lo�kao�i�pr�vi�put,�ja�ka�̀ em–�u�re�du,�ja�pa�ra�ne�mam�ako�vam�se�do�la�zi�iz�vo�li�te�do�|i�te�kod�me�ne�ku�}i.�Ta�-ko�je�i�bi�lo.�Bio�je�29.�ok�to�bar�2003.�Oni�su�pret�hod�ni�dan�isto�zva�li�i�re�klida�}e�do�}i�u�Sa�ra�je�vo�da�}e�sle�te�ti,�pa�da�}e�se�upu�ti�ti�ko�li�ma�pre�ma�Zvor�-ni�ku.�Isto�sam�im�re�kao�da�ne�}u�da�ti�iz�ja�vu,�isto�sam�im�re�kao�da�ne�`e�limraz�go�va�ra�ti�je�dan�na�pre�ma�tri,�~e�ti�ri�ili�pet,�ne�go�sa�mo�je�dan�na�je�dan.�Do�-{li�su�u�tri�sa�ta.�On�da�smo�se�mi,�mo�ji�pri�ja�te�qi,�or�ga�ni�zo�va�li�da�vi�di�mo{ta�je�to,�ka�ko�}e�to�iz�gle�da�ti,�pa�smo�po�sla�li�oso�bu�ko�ja�}e�ih�do�~e�ka�ti�uZvor�ni�ku.�Ka�da�su�do�{li�u�Zvor�nik�pred�ho�tel�’Dri�nu’,�re�~e�no�mi�je�da�ih�je~e�ti�ri�ili�pet�u�toj�eki�pi.�Ja�sam�re�kao�da�mo�̀ e�da�do�|e�Yona�tan.�Oni�su�re�-kli�da�je�to�dra�sti~�no�kr�{e�we�Sta�tu�ta,�ja�sam�re�kao�–�u�re�du,�ako�vi�ne�}e�te,ne�mo�ra�te�ni�ka�ko�i�te�le�fon�sam�is�kqu�~io.�Na�kra�ju�je�do�{ao�sam�Yona�tan.

Oni�su�pr�vi�u{li,�ova�dje�voj�ka�i�on�u�stan,�ja�sam�do�{ao�ka�sni�je.�On�me�nika�̀ e�–�ne�ma�smi�sla�{ta�vi�me�ni�ra�di�te.�Ja�ka�̀ em�–�ni�je�to�ni�{ta�{ta�vi�na�-

61

Page 62: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

ma�ra�di�te,�ovo�je�igra.�E,�on�da�je�on�do�{ao,�tu�smo�po�~e�li�raz�go�va�ra�ti,�u�su�-{ti�ni�{ta�on�nu�di.�Za�bo�ra�vio�sam�re�}i,�ka�da�smo�bi�li�u�Be�o�gra�du�da�su�onime�ni�re�kli,�ka�da�sam�ja�ono�re�kao�da�ja�ra�do�nu�dim�slo�bo�du�za�~ast,�oni�su�re�-kli�–�mi�}e�mo�va�ma�iz�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�do�ne�ti�pa�pir,�uko�li�ko�vi�pri�sta�ne�-te�da�da�te�iz�ja�vu�za�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo,�na�ko�jem�}e�pi�sa�ti�da�vas�ne�}e�i�ne�mo�̀ e�go�-ni�ti�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nal,�bo�san�ski,�sr�bi�jan�ski�i�hr�vat�ski�sud,�jer�sam�ja�bio�i�uHr�vat�skoj�na�ra�ti�{tu.�Ide�mo�re�dom.�Oni�su�me�ni�u�Be�o�gra�du�ova�ko�re�kli�–mi�smo�vas�pla�ni�ra�li�u�pred�me�tu�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,�ali�po�{to�vi�odu�-go�vla�~i�te�kon�takt�sa�na�ma,�od�bi�ja�te�pu�tem�te�le�fo�na�da�se�na�|e�mo,�ka�ko�samih�ja�raz�u�meo,�ne�{to�je�pro�{lo,�ti�sve�do�ci,�za�kqu�~e�no�ne�{to,�pa�je�ot�paoSlo�bo�dan�Mi�lo�{e�vi}.�E�sad,�ka�da�je�on�tu�do�{ao,�raz�go�vor�se�uglav�nom�svo�-dio�na�to�da�bi�oni�naj�ra�di�je�uze�li�tu�iz�ja�vu,�a�da�bi�oni�me�ni�za�uz�vrat�obez�-be�di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�svje�do�ka.�Ja�sam�tra�̀ io�da�ne�ma�uvi�ja�wa,�da�mo�rado�}i�i�re�}i�otvo�re�no�{ta�̀ e�li.�E,�on�da�je�on�re�kao�–�mi�̀ e�li�mo�vas�u�pro�ce�-su�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�kao�svje�do�ka�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva.�To�je�u�mo�joj�ku�}i�re�-kao,�ne�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Ja�sam�ih�pi�tao�da�mi�ob�ja�sne�{ta�to�zna�~i�za�{ti�}e�ni�svje�-dok.�E�on�da�su�mi�re�kli�da�je�to�svje�dok�pod�za�{ti�tom�Uje�di�we�nih�na�ci�ja,�pauko�li�ko�bi�mo�ja�iz�ja�va�bi�la�do�sta�kva�li�tet�na�on�da�bi�mi�me�wa�li�iden�ti�tet,se�li�le�u�ne�ke�tre�}e�ze�mqe,�ako�je�pre�ko�o�ke�an�ska�to�vre�di�mi�li�on,�ako�je�ne�kaevrop�ska�ne�ka�800-900�hi�qa�da�do�la�ra.�Ja�sam�re�kao�da�ne�}u�da�svje�do�~im,�od�biosam,�i�ne�}u�da�se�se�lim�iz�svo�je�ze�mqe.�Re�kao�sam�ja�we�mu,�do�du�{e,�on�me�ne�pi�-ta�o�ra�ti�{tu�o�de�ta�qi�ma,�ni�{ta�ni�sam�go�vo�rio,�sa�mo�sam�mu�re�kao,�da�sam�biona�5-6�raz�li�~i�tih�lo�ka�ci�ja.�Sve�ja�ka�̀ em,�ali�opet�ne�}u�da�va�ma�dam�iz�ja�vu.�Re�-kao�sam�ako�bu�dem�da�vao�iz�ja�vu,�da�}u�je�srp�skoj�stra�ni..

On�je�opet�re�kao�uko�li�ko�ja�dam�iz�ja�vu�i�oni�pro�cije�ne�da�je�ta�iz�ja�va�kva�-li�tet�na,�to�su�tro�{ko�vi�Uje�di�we�nih�na�ci�ja�ka�da�te�be�i�po�ro�di�cu�{a�qu,�me�-wa{�ime�i�pre�zi�me,�ta�ko�sam�ja�raz�u�meo�i�vi�ta�mo�na�sta�vqa�te�`i�ve�ti.�

U�Be�o�gra�du�na�pr�vom�sa�stan�ku�su�mi�re�kli�da�}e�i�me�ne�op�tu�̀ i�ti�ako�nepri�hva�tim�da�bu�dem�wi�hov�sa�rad�nik,�a�ako�sa�ra�|u�jem,�oni�mi�ga�ran�tu�ju�da�mene�}e�go�ni�ti�ni�ko�iz�Ha�ga,�ni�iz�Hr�vat�ske�i�Bo�sne�i�Her�ce�go�vi�ne,�vje�ro�vat�noza�to�{to�zna�ju�da�sam�ja�bio�u�ra�tu.�Ja�sam�re�kao�ako�sam�ja�kriv,�iz�vo�li�te�me�-ne�uhap�si�ti.�Ja�ne�}u�ni�pro�tiv�ko�ga�dru�gog�da�se�qu�tim,�ja�sam�bio�u�ra�tu,�akosam�ja�na�pra�vio�zlo�~in�vi�uhap�si�te�me�ne.�Ja�ni�kad�ni�sam�pri�su�stvo�vao�ni�ka�-kvom�zlo�~i�nu,�ja�ne�mo�gu�iz�mi�{qa�ti�ni�{ta.

Ja�sam�imao�i�dok�sam�bio�u�Ho�lan�di�ji�do�bi�jao�te�le�fon�ske�po�zi�ve�od�wih.Ja�ni�sam�wi�ma�hteo�da�go�vo�rim�o�de�{a�va�wu�iz�ra�ta�ni�{ta,�a�oni�su�sva�ki�putna�to�me�in�si�sti�ra�li.

Zna�~i,�ja�sam�dva�put�imao�kon�takt�sa�wi�ma,�ka�ko�se�ka�̀ e,�o~i�u�o~i�i�pri�-li�kom�tih�kon�ta�ka�ta�sam�imao�ose�}aj�da�oni�vr�{e�pri�ti�sak�pre�ma�me�ni.

Mo�je�je�mi�{qe�we�da�je�sva�ki�te�le�fon�ski�po�ziv�pri�ti�sak,�s�ob�zi�rom�dasam�ja�ja�sno�re�kao�da�ne�`e�lim�da�me�vi�{e�zo�vu.�Po�se�ban�vid�pri�ti�ska�i�uce�-ne�bio�je�ka�da�su�re�kli�–�ako�vi�na�ma�da�te�iz�ja�vu�mi�}e�mo�va�ma�do�ne�ti�pa�pir�uko�jem�ste�vi�bez�bed�ni.�Ja�sam�to�do�̀ i�veo�i�kao�pret�wu�i�po�sle�to�ga�sam�se�go�-di�nu�da�na�skla�wao�i�krio�po�Be�o�gra�du,�ni�sam�znao�na�~e�mu�sam.

Ja�sma�tram,�ka�da�sam�im�pr�vi�put�te�le�fo�nom�re�kao�da�ne�`e�lim�s�wi�mada�imam�ne�ke�kon�tak�te,�da�sva�ki�sle�de�}i�po�ziv�pre�va�zi�la�zi�uobi�~a�je�nu�upor�-62

Page 63: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

nost�ne�kog�or�ga�na,�i�pred�sta�vqa�sred�stvo�pri�ti�ska�pre�ma�me�ni.Iskre�no�da�ka�̀ em,�ja�sam�na�kra�ju,�pri�li�kom�zad�weg�raz�go�vo�ra,�bio�ba{

ja�san�i�re�kao�sam�im�do�slov�ce�ova�ko�’Ja�sam�cije�lo�vri�je�me�pri�sto�jan�pre�mava�ma,�a�vi�upor�no�zo�ve�te�iako�vam�je�ja�sno�da�ja�ne�}u�da�dam�iz�ja�vu.’�I�on�da�samre�kao,�ne�moj�te�vi�{e�da�vam�pad�ne�na��pa�met�da�me�zov�ne�te�i�uz�ne�mi�ra�va�te.�Toje�bi�lo�ka�da�je�na�zvao�go�spo�din�Iv�Roj.�Ako�sam�re�kao�da�ne�}u�da�ti�ni�kad�ni�-ka�kvu�iz�ja�vu,on�da�mi�je�wi�ho�va�upor�nost�bi�la�smet�wa.

Ja�za�oba�su�sre�ta�imam�svje�do�ka,�ni�sam�i{ao�sam,�i{la�je�mo�ja�sva�sti�ka�ko�-ja�je�pre�vo�di�la,�ni�je�i{la�sa�mo�kao�moj�pre�vo�di�lac,�ve}�za�to�{to�sam�`e�lioda�po�sto�ji�ne�ko�ko�}e�is�pri�~a�ti�ka�ko�je�bi�lo,�da�ja�ne�bih�su�tra�cr�ve�nio�predsvo�jim�dje�te�tom.

U�to�ku�raz�go�vo�ra�ni�sam�pri�me�tio�da�je�raz�go�vor�sni�man,�ali�sam�ube�|enda�je�ne�gdje�po�sto�ja�la�ka�me�ra.�Ja�sam�od�ku�}e�do�{ao�sa�~vr�stim�re�{e�wem�i�na�-me�rom�da�ne�ula�zim�u�pri�~u,�jer�sam�znao�da�}e�me�po�bje�di�ti.�Pret�po�sta�vqamda�na�spram�me�ne�vr�hun�ski�po�li�caj�ci�sje�de,�i�ako�u|em�u�pri�~u�go�to�vo�je,�i�ono{to�ja�ne�bih�re�kao�oni�bi�na�kra�ju�iz�vu�kli�iz�me�ne.

E,�kad�je�bio�za�ka�zan�raz�go�vor�u�mo�joj�ku�}i�ja�sam�sa�mo�jim�ku�mom,�ovom�dje�-voj�kom�i�sa�jo{�dva�~o�vje�ka,�po�ku�{ao�da�utvr�dim�do�kle�oni�ho�}e�da�idu.�Sa�moda�vi�dim�{ta�se�to�do�ga�|a,�to�je�me�ni�bi�la�ne�po�zna�ni�ca,�ja�ni�sam�imao�poj�mai�za�to�je�to�ta�ko�i�te�klo.�Kad�je�on�od�la�zio�tvr�dio�je�da�je�za�wih�mo�ja�pri�~ado�sta�do�bra,�iako�ja�ni�{ta�ni�sam�pri�~ao.�Re�kao�je�da�sma�tra�da�da�ja�wi�ma�mo�-gu�pu�no�po�mo�}i.�Ja�sam�se�na�{ao�u�~u�du,�{ta�ja�to�wi�ma�mo�gu�po�mo�}i,�kad�znamda�im�ni�{ta�ni�sam�re�kao.

Ta�da�sam�im�re�kao�da�i�kad�bih�pri�stao�da�svje�do�~im�za�wih,�da�ne�bih�daoiz�ja�vu�dok�bi�mo�ju�po�ro�di�cu�ise�li�li�odav�de,�i�me�ne.�Sve�sam�ja�to�re�kao.�I�kadsu�oni�oti�{li,�na�zva�li�su�jo{�jed�nom,�on�ka�̀ e�ne�mo�̀ e�sam�da�od�lu�~i,�ne�go�dapo�sto�ji�vi�{i�ni�vo�ko�ji�od�lu�~u�je�ko�}e�do�bi�ti�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�svje�do�ka.�Ioni�su�po�sle�tog�su�sre�ta�jo{�jed�nom�zva�li�te�le�fo�nom�i�pri�sta�li�da�ne�dam�iz�-ja�vu�dok�ne�od�ve�du�me�ne�i�po�ro�di�cu.�Re�kao�sam�da�me�vi�{e�ne�zo�vu,�ne�}u�da�tini�ka�kvu�iz�ja�vu�i�na�gla�sio�da�me�ne�mo�gu�ku�pi�ti�ni�za�{to.�Sle�de�}i�po�ziv�jeusle�dio�u�mar�tu�2004.�go�di�ne,�ta�da�je�zvao�Iv�Roj.�Me�ni�su�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nogsve�do�ka�po�nu�di�li�dru�gi�put,�ne�znam�zbog�~e�ga�iako�im�ja�ni�sam�dao�ni�ka�kvuiz�ja�vu�ni�ti�sam�re�kao�da�bih�o�ne�~em�mo�gao�da�sve�do�~im,�ali�sma�tram�da�su�mipr�vo�nu�di�li�sta�tus�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka�da�me�jed�no�stav�no�na�te�ra�ju�da�im�damne�ku�iz�ja�vu�ko�ju�bi�oni�mo�gli�da�is�ko�ri�ste�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�To�jed�-na�do�sta�ozbiq�na�or�ga�ni�za�ci�ja...�

Ka�da�su�oni�iza�{li�iz�ku�}e,�sle�de�}i�put�su�zva�li�Yona�tan�i�eki�pa�i�IvRoj,�iako�sam�im�ja�re�kao�da�me�vi�{e�ne�zo�vu.

To�je�na�vod�no�taj�vi�{i�ni�vo�o�ko�jem�on�pri�~a.�Po�sle�to�ga�u�mar�tu�je�biojo{�je�dan�po�ziv,�u�ko�jem�je�zvao�sa�mo�Iv�Roj�ko�ji�mi�je�re�kao�da�}e�se�dr�̀ a�tisve�tog�do�go�vo�ra,�da�ni�je�ni�ka�kav�pro�blem,�da�mi�po�ro�di�cu�od�mah�pre�ba�ce�Ho�-lan�di�ju�i�da�ih�ta�mo�za�dr�̀ e�mje�sec�da�na�ja�dam�te�iz�ja�ve,�i�on�da�sam�ja�re�kaone�moj�te�vi�{e�da�me�zo�ve�te,�mi�smo�za�vr�{i�li,�ja�ne�}u�da�dam�iz�ja�vu,�ovo�je�krajpri�~e.�Ne�moj�te�me�vi�{e�uz�ne�mi�ra�va�ti.�On�da�sam�oti�{ao�u�Fran�cu�sku�da�po�-ku�{am�da�na�osno�vu�ovo�ga�{to�su�mi�na�pra�vi�li�obez�be�dim�azil.�Do�{ao�sam�uFran�cu�sku,�u�Fran�cu�skoj�ne�ma�smje�{ta�ja,�ni�sam�mo�gao�da�tra�̀ im�azil,�imao

63

Page 64: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

sam�dru�ga�ri�cu�ko�ja�̀ i�vi�u�Dem�Bo�{u,�u�Ho�lan�di�ji.�Do�|em�kod�we�u�Dem�Bo{,ona�ra�di�u�po�li�ci�ji,�po�mog�ne�mi�da�na�|em�gdje�je�azil�cen�tar,�odem�na�aero�-drom�[i�po,�oni�mi�da�ju�kar�te,�jo{�ih�imam,�bes�plat�ne.�Wen�sin�me�od�ve�de�uTe�ra�pe,�to�je�jed�no�ma�lo�mje�sto�na�gra�ni�ci�sa�We�ma~�kom,�i�tu�osta�nem�sko�ro50�da�na,�i�iz�gu�bim�20�ki�la.�E,�kad�do�|e�te�i�tra�̀ i�te�azil,�on�da�oni�pi�ta�ju�zbog~e�ga�tra�̀ i�te�azil.�I�ja�ka�̀ em,�da�tra�̀ im�od�UN-a�azil�za�to�{to�su�me�ni�UNna�pra�vi�le�pro�ble�me,�i�ka�̀ em�da�sam�imao�dva�kon�tak�ta�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma.Oni�me�ne�pi�ta�ju�ka�ko,�ja�is�pri�~am.�

Tre�bao�mi�je�do�kaz�da�sam�bio�sa�wi�ma.�On�ne�da,�ne�da�mi�ovaj�pa�pir.�Ka�-`e,�mi�to�ne�ma�mo,�mi�va�ma�ne�mo�̀ e�mo�da�ti�pa�pir.Oni�ho�}e�da�uze�mu�od�me�neiz�ja�vu,�ali�pa�pir�je�ta�mo�sve�ti�wa.�Iz�me�|u�osta�log,�ka�da�sam�bio�na�tom�in�ter�-vjuu�sa�tim�po�li�caj�cem,�on�je�me�ne�pi�tao�ka�kve�ja�to�pro�ble�me�imam.�Re�kao�samda�me�ni�pra�vi�pro�blem�~o�vek�ko�ji�je�pri�pad�nik�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke,ko�ji�pro�no�si�pri�~u�da�sam�ja�pri�stao�da�bu�dem�sve�dok�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�{to�je�na�-ru�{a�va�lo�moj�ugled�i�ugled�mo�je�po�ro�di�ce.On�je�od�mah�pi�tao�da�li�me�na�pa�daSrp�ska�ra�di�kal�na�stran�ka.�Re�kao�sam:�’Ne�go�spo�do,�Srp�ska�ra�di�kal�na�stran�-ka�je�de�mo�krat�ska�stran�ka,�ona�ne�sto�ji�iza�tih�na�pa�da,�u�sva�koj�stran�ci�ima�teusi�ja�nih�gla�va�i�lu�da�ka.’�E,�on�da�sam�taj�pa�pir�do�bio�pred�sa�mi�kraj,�jed�no�6-7pu�ta�su�me�zva�li�u�tom�cen�tru.�Pr�vu�put�me�zo�vu,�i�pi�ta�ju�{ta�ja�imam�za�wih.Ja�ka�̀ em,�ja�ne�mam�ni�{ta�za�vas.�Vi�ima�te�za�me�ne,�tre�ba�te�mi�da�ti�pa�pir�dasam�se�ja�dva�pu�ta�sa�stao�sa�va�ma,�jer�ja�zbog�to�ga�imam�pro�ble�ma.�Tek�ka�da�sammu�re�kao�da�ja�imam�je�dan�pa�pir�ko�ji�}u�mi�je�wa�ti�s�wim�ako�mi�bu�de�ovo�dao,isti�dan�na�kon�15�mi�nu�ta�je�ovo�fak�si�rao�na�prav�nu�po�mo}�u�iz�vr�{nom�cen�-tru.�Ja�sam�se�po�slu�̀ io�tri�kom�i�re�kao�da�je�pa�pir�ko�ji�imam�za�wih�do�bro�sa�-kri�ven�u�Sr�bi�ji.�

Zna�~i�da�bi�do�bio�azil�bio�mi�je�neo�p�ho�dan,�do�kaz,�pa�pir�od�is�tra�̀ i�te�-qa�da�su�me�kon�tak�ti�ra�li,�{to�je�Iv�Roj�od�bio�da�mi�da.�Za�ni�mqi�vo�je�da�mije�ta�da�u�te�le�fon�skom�raz�go�vo�ru�re�kao�da�smo�se�vi�de�li�u�Be�o�gra�du,�a�ja�u�Be�-o�gra�du�ni�sam�upo�znao�ni�kog�s�tim�ime�nom�Ja�sam�oba�dvo�ji�cu�qu�di�vi�deo,�{toimam�wi�ho�ve�vi�zit-kar�te,�e�sa�da�da�li�se�oni�pred�sta�vqa�ju�pod�ra�znim�ime�ni�-ma,�ko�}e�to�zna�ti,�od�wih�sva�{ta�mo�̀ e�da�se�o~e�ku�je.�Ja�sam�wi�ma�re�kao�daimam�pa�pir�da�je�Du�{an�Vu~�ko�vi}�bio�pri�pad�nik�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�keu�vri�je�me�po�~i�we�nih�zlo�~i�na.�Znao�sam�da�im�je�to�naj�va�̀ ni�je.�Na�rav�no,�ovajpa�pir�ni�sam�mo�gao�da�im�dam,�jer�on�i�ne�po�sto�ji.Istog�da�na�Iv�Roj�je�pot�pi�-sao�do�ku�ment�u�ko�me�je�na�ve�de�no�to�da�su�ha�{ki�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ima�li�dva�su�sre�-ta�sa�mnom,�ali�da�sam�oba�pu�ta�od�bio�da�dam�iz�ja�vu,�jer�sam�se�pla�{io�za�svoj`i�vot�i�`i�vo�te�~la�no�va�svo�je�po�ro�di�ce.�Kri�vo�mi�je�{to�su�na�pi�sa�li�sa�mode�li�mi~�nu�isti�nu,�{to�ni�su�na�pi�sa�li�ono�{to�sam�im�re�kao,�da�mi�ne�pa�da�na�-pa�met�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�Sr�ba.

Da,�i�dok�sam�po�ku�{a�vao�da�do�bi�jem�azil,�Ho�lan�|a�ne�je�po�seb�no�za�ni�ma�-lo�da�li�stra�hu�jem�od�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�ne�stran�ke.�Re�kao�sam�im�da�od�me�ne�neo~e�ku�ju�da�pqu�jem�po�svo�joj�ze�mqi�ni�ti�po�Srp�skoj�ra�di�kal�noj�stran�ci�i�da�ne�-mam�raz�lo�ga�da�stra�hu�jem�od�stran�ke.�Na�ve�li�kom�in�ter�vjuu�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�-ma,�ob�ja�{we�no�mi�je�da�je�pro�ce�du�ra�da�mi�se�pri�dru�̀ i�su�pru�ga�i�sin�pri�li~�-no�du�ga.�Ni�sam�smeo�da�ri�zi�ku�jem�da�o~vr�snu�i�oja�~a�ju�sum�we�mo�jih�su�gra�|a�nai�da�mi�po�ro�di�ca�osta�ne�ne�za�{ti�}e�na,�pa�sam�se�Ho�lan�|a�ni�ma�za�hva�lio�na64

Page 65: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

bes�plat�nom�bo�rav�ku�u�azi�lu�i�po�sle�dva�me�se�ca�po�no�vo�se�vra�tio�u�Ma�liZvor�nik.�S�ne�str�pqe�wem�~e�kam�dan�ka�da�}e�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�do�bi�ti�spi�sakza�{ti�}e�nih�sve�do�ka�i�ka�da�}u�ko�na~�no�sve�ne�ver�ne�To�me�uve�ri�ti�u�svo�ju�~e�-sti�tost.�Ja�mo�gu�re�}i�da�ja�ni�sam�tra�̀ io�ni�ka�kvu�na�dok�na�du,�ni�ka�kvu�na�god�bu,ja�sam�se�u�sve�mu�ovo�me�na�{ao�za�to�{to�su�oni�me�ne�zva�li,�a�ne�ja�wih.

Sto�po�sto�ja�ni�sam�ni�kog�zvao.�Na�kra�ju�kra�je�va,�na�kon�mo�je�iz�ja�ve�u�Be�o�-gra�du�da�sam�pri�pad�nik�S^P-a,�da�ne�}u�da�raz�go�va�ram�na�te�mu�ra�ta,�ne�}u�dapo�me�nem�Sr�bi�na�pred�wi�ma,�ne�ma�po�sle�pri�~e�o�na�god�bi.

I�to�obe�}a�we�pa�pi�ra�ko�jim�}e�me�za�{ti�ti�ti�od�Ha�{kog�su�da,�od�su�do�vaBo�sne�i�Her�ce�go�vi�ne�i�Hr�vat�ske�je�bi�lo�vje�ro�vat�no�da�se�odo�bro�vo�qim�dakre�nem�da�pri�~am,�pret�po�sta�vqam�da�je�to.�̂ im�su�mi�po�nu�di�li�taj�pa�pir..�Mi�-slim,�sve�se�da�lo�lo�gi~�ki�za�kqu�~i�ti.�Moj�je�uti�sak�da�je�wi�ho�vo�po�stu�pa�we�samnom�pri�ti�sak�ne�bi�li�me�na�te�ra�li�da�go�vo�rim�ono�{to�wi�ma�od�go�va�ra,�od�-no�sno�da�sve�do�~im�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�je�di�no�ta�ko�mo�gu�da�pro�tu�ma�-~im�wi�ho�vu�upor�nost,�iako�sam�im�stal�no�po�na�vqao�da�me�vi�{e�ne�zo�vu.�Ovuiz�ja�vu�da�jem�do�bro�voq�no�i�bez�ika�kvog�pri�ti�ska.�U�Ze�mu�nu,�24.�ja�nu�a�ra�2007.go�di�ne.�Iz�ja�vu�dao�Jan�ko�La�ki}”.

Kwi ga Jo ve Osto ji }a

O�to�me�ka�kve�je�sve�pro�ble�me�imao�sa�is�tra�̀ i�te�qi�ma�Tu�̀ i�la�{tva,�Jo�voOsto�ji}�je�na�pi�sao�kwi�gu�pod�na�zi�vom�“Ha�{ki�sve�dok”.�Naj�u�pe~�tqi�vi�ji�de�lo�-vi�kwi�ge,�u�ko�ji�ma� je�do�de�ta�qa�opi�sa�no�ka�ko�Tu�̀ i�la�{tvo�ne�do�zvo�qe�nimsred�stvi�ma�do�la�zi�do�sve�do�ka�ko�ji�bi�mo�ra�li�da�sve�do�~e�pro�tiv�prof.�dr�Vo�-ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�ci�ti�ra�ju�se�kao�svo�je�vr�sni�do�kaz�da�je�u�pi�ta�wu�op�{te�po�zna�-ta�~i�we�ni�ca.

“Pro�{lo�je�ne�ko�li�ko�da�na�od�Sve�tog�Ili�je�2002.�go�di�ne.�Bi�la�je�ne�de�qapre�pod�ne,�oko�11�~a�so�va.�Da�nas�se�ne�se�}am�za�{to,�ali�se�iz�ne�kog�raz�lo�ga�ni�-sam�do�bro�ose�}ao.�Imao�sam�ne�ko�~ud�no�ose�}a�we�te�sko�be.�Mi�mo�obi�~a�ja�opru�-`io�sam�se�bio�na�oto�ma�nu�i�raz�mi�{qao�o�sve�mu�i�sva�~e�mu�{to�se�de�{a�va�lopo�sled�wih�go�di�na.�[to�sam�du�̀ e�raz�mi�{qao�bio�sam�sve�raz�o�~a�ra�ni�ji.�Upro�te�klih�de�set�go�di�na,�go�di�na�pu�nih�pro�me�na,�mno�go�sam�se�i�emo�tiv�no�i�du�-hov�no�an�ga�̀ o�vao�i�is�tro�{io.�Mno�ge�stva�ri�sam�pred�vi�deo�u�to�ku�1990-1995.go�di�ne,�pa�me�sa�da�i�ni�su�mno�go�po�ga�|a�le,�ali�da�}u�se�sa�boj�nog�po�qa�vra�ti�tikao�gu�bit�nik,�to�ni�sam�ni�ka�ko�mo�gao�da�pri�hva�tim�ni�ti�}u�ika�da�pri�hva�ti�ti.Jer�kao�ko�man�dant�srp�skih�do�bro�vo�qa�ca,�ni�jed�nu�bit�ku�ni�smo�iz�gu�bi�li�ni�tiod�hr�vat�skih�usta�{a,�ni�ti�od�ba�li�ja�pot�po�mog�nu�tih�muyahe�di�ni�ma.�Da�nas,�me�-|u�tim,�vi�dim�da�smo�po�ra�̀ e�ni.

Po�seb�no�mi�je�te�{ko�pa�da�lo�to�{to�se�Srp�ska�ra�di�kal�na�stran�ka�pre�mame�ni�po�na�{a�la�ma�}e�hin�ski,�kle�ve�}u�}i�me�i�{i�re�}i�ne�i�sti�ne�o�me�ni�u�sa�mojstran�ci,�stran�ci�ko�joj�sam�`r�tvo�vao�sve,�kao�{to�sam�to�~i�nio�i�za�Otaybi�-nu�i�moj�na�rod.�Pri�hva�tio�sam�sve�la�̀ i�mir�no�i�po�vu�kao�se�iz�jav�nog�po�li�ti~�-kog�`i�vo�ta.�Mo�ram�bi�ti�iskren,�po�taj�no�sam�se�na�dao�da�}e�mi�se�za�uvre�de�ila�̀ i�jed�nom�iz�vi�ni�ti�i�po�zva�ti�me�na�raz�go�vor.�Na�̀ a�lost,�to�ni�su�ura�di�li�ija�sam�se�po�sve�tio�pi�sa�wu�i�po�ro�di�ci.

Elem,�po�sle�pet�go�di�na�ra�to�va�wa�vra�tio�sam�se�ku�}i�i�svo�joj�po�ro�di�ci.65

Page 66: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Da�nas�ne�iz�go�va�ram�ove�re�~i�se�be�ra�di,�ne�go�ra�di�ono�ga�{to�je�po�~e�lo�da�mise�de�{a�va�od�tog�pre�po�dne�va.�Zbog�do�ga�|a�ja�ko�ji�}e�usle�di�ti,�u�me�ni�se�pro�bu�-di�la�po�tre�ba�da�se�bo�rim�i�ra�tu�jem�sam.�Da�se�bra�nim�isti�nom�i�sa�mo�isti�-nom,�bez�i~i�je�po�mo�}i,�a�uz�ve�li�ku�po�dr�{ku�mo�je�po�ro�di�ce,�ko�ja�}e�sta�ti�uz�me�-ne.�Ta�ko�|e�su�me�po�dr�̀ a�va�la�i�dva�dru�ga�ra�sa�po�sla�gde�sam�ra�dio.�Oni�za�ko�-je�sam�mno�go�u~i�nio,�od�no�sno�ono�li�ko�ko�li�ko�je�bi�lo�u�mo�joj�mo�}i,�ne�}e�se�ni�-ka�da�ogla�si�ti,�ma�da�su�zna�li�da�se�na�la�zim�u�te�{koj�si�tu�a�ci�ji.�Mo�̀ da�su�o~e�-ki�va�li�da�ih�mo�lim,�pa�da�me�opet�od�gur�nu�mi�sle�}i�da�su�oni�ve�li�ki,�a�svi�dru�-gi�ma�li.�Ali�ne�ka�sve�ide�svo�jim�to�kom,�~i�sta�sa�vest�i�isti�na�mo�ra�ju�kad-tadda�is�pli�va�ju.

Sa�da�i�ov�de,�ovaj�moj�za�pis,�ko�ji�je�mo�je�auto�ri�zo�va�no�sve�do�~e�we,�pre�da�jemkao�autor�ski�do�ku�ment,�ne�sa�mo�isti�ne�i�prav�de�ra�di�~i�ta�o�cu,�ve}�i�isled�ni�-ku�Sto�hi�ju,�ko�me�sam�sta�vio�do�zna�wa�da�}u�ga�ras�krin�ka�ti.�I�to�ne�sa�mo�zbogpod�met�nu�tog�’za�pi�sni�ka’,�ko�ji�ni�sam�hteo�da�pot�pi�{em,�ve},�pre�sve�ga,�zbog’in�ter�vjua’�ko�ji�je�vo�|en�me�to�dom�ma�ni�pu�la�ci�je,�pod�me�ta�wa�i�la�̀ i,�’in�kvi�zi�-tor�skim’�ute�ri�va�wem�u�’is�kaz�za�{ti�}e�nog�sve�do�ka’.

Ali,�da�me�pri�~a�ne�bi�od�vu�kla�da�le�ko,�vra�}am�se�na�sam�po�~e�tak�zbi�-va�wa.

Dok�sam�le�̀ ao,�mi�sli�i�se�}a�wa�su�mi�na�vi�ra�li�po�put�ubr�za�nog�fil�ma.’[ta�mi�je?’,�pi�tao�sam�se.�Bo�̀ e,�po�mo�zi�mi,�pro�go�vo�rio�sam�po�lu�gla�sno�ka�-da�se�vra�ta�od�so�be�otvo�ri�{e.

–�Jo�vo,�haj�de�br�zo,�zo�vu�te.–�A�ko�me�zo�ve,�Sne�̀ o?–�Oni�iz�Ha�ga.–�Ka�kvog�Ha�ga,�Sne�̀ a�na?–�Bo�ga�mi�iz�Ho�lan�di�je.�Ka�̀ i�mi�{ta�da�od�go�vo�rim?�Je�si�li�tu�ili�ni�si?–�Re�ci�im�da�ni�sam.�–�Jo�vo,�ho�}e�li�to�va�qa�ti?�–�Idi�i�re�ci�im�da�}u�se�br�zo�vra�ti�ti,�da�sam�oti�{ao�u�{ah�klub.Sne�̀ a�na,�mo�ja�su�pru�ga,�vra�ti�la�se�do�te�le�fo�na,�re�kla�im�gde�sam�i�vra�ti�-

la�se�do�me�ne.–�[ta�si�im�re�kla?�–�To�{to�si�mi�re�kao.–�Do�bro.�A�{ta�su�ti�od�go�vo�ri�li?–�Zva�}e�te�oko�16�~a�so�va,�i�re�kli�su�da�se�oba�ve�zno�mo�ra{�ja�vi�ti.Ni�{ta,�ja�vi�}u�se,�pa�{ta�mi�Bog�da.�Ne�mam�~e�ga�da�se�pla�{im,�ni�ka�kav

zlo�~in�ni�sam�ura�dio,�ni�ti�ja,�ni�ti�do�bro�voq�ci�ko�ji�ma�sam�ko�man�do�vao.�Kozna�{ta�ho�}e?�Vi�de�}e�mo.

Sa�ti�su�spo�ro�pro�la�zi�li,�ubi�ta~�no�spo�ro,�kao�da�je�ne�ko�za�u�sta�vio�vre�me,pa�ne�da�ni�na�pred�ni�na�zad.�U�me�ni�se�sve�ku�va�lo.�Do�bio�sam�ve�li�ku�vo�qu�dase�bo�rim�za�isti�nu.�Bio�sam�spre�man,�ako�tre�ba,�da�po�lo�̀ im�i�̀ i�vot,�da�se�bo�-rim�pro�tiv�te�ne�ma�ni,�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la,�ko�ji�ne�mi�li�ce�gu�ta�Sr�be.

–�Ha�lo,�da�li�je�to�Pri�gre�vi�ca,�Apa�tin,�Ni�ne�Ma�ra�ko�vi�}a�broj�7,�stan�Jo�-ve�Osto�ji�}a,�~et�ni~�kog�voj�vo�de.

–�Da,�je�ste.�A�ko�je�to?–�Ov�de�je�Mi�lan,�pre�vo�di�lac�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Pa�o�lo�Pa�sto�re�Sto�hi�ja�(Pa -

66

Page 67: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

o lo Pa sto re Stoc chi).�Je�ste�li�vi�Jo�vo�Osto�ji}?–�Da,�ja�sam,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.–�Do�bar�dan,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.–�Do�bar�dan.–�Tra�̀ i�li�smo�vas�da�nas.�Ja�vi�la�se�va�{a�su�pru�ga.�Vo�li�te�da�igra�te�{ah?–�Da,�obo�̀ a�vam�da�igram�{ah.�A�vi,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo?–�Ona�ko.–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�zo�vem�vas�iz�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�i�̀ e�leo�bih�da�se�vi�-

dim�sa�va�ma,�da�mi�da�te�je�dan�in�ter�vju�u�Be�o�gra�du�u�pro�sto�ri�ja�ma�Me�|u�na�rod�-nog�kri�vi~�nog�su�da�u�uli�ci�Je�vre�ma�Gru�ji�}a�broj�11.�Da�tum�raz�go�vo�ra�bio�bina�knad�no�od�re�|en.�Za�to�vre�me�}e�te�do�bi�ja�ti�po�150�evra�na�dan.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo�Pa�sto�re,�me�ne�li~�no�taj�va{�sud�ne�in�te�re�su�je�i�ne�-mam�na�me�ru�da�do�|em�u�Be�o�grad�da�me�vi�mal�tre�ti�ra�te�sa�ko�je�ka�kvim�va�{impi�ta�wi�ma�i�da�tu�bo�ra�vim�3-5�da�na.�O~i�gled�no�ste�do�bro�upo�zna�ti�sa�mo�jompo�ro�di~�nom�fi�nan�sij�skom�si�tu�a�ci�jom,�po�{to�mi�nu�di�te�150�evra�na�dan.�Me�-ni�va{�no�vac�ap�so�lut�no�ni�je�po�tre�ban�ni�ti�ga�`e�lim.�Ne�}e�te�mo�}i�da�me�ku�-pi�te,�uza�lud�se�tru�di�te.�Ima�te�vi�va�{e�igra�~e,�pa�sa�wi�ma�igraj�te,�a�me�neosta�vi�te�na�mi�ru.�Je�smo�li�se�raz�u�me�li?

–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�vi�mo�ra�te�da�do�|e�te�da�da�te�in�ter�vju.–�Ne�mo�ram�ja�ni�{ta�ako�ne�}u.–�Bi�}e�te�pri�ve�de�ni.–�Re�ci�mi:�ko�}e�to�me�ne�da�pri�ve�de?–�Po�li�ci�ja.–�^i�ja�po�li�ci�ja?–�Va�{a.–�Ho�}e�te�li�vi�da�da�te�na�log?–�Ne.�Na�log�}e�da�ti�mi�ni�star�prav�de�Sr�bi�je�Vla�dan�Ba�ti},�pa�}e�te�bi�ti

pri�ve�de�ni.–�Ba{�me�bri�ga�za�va�{eg�mi�ni�stra�Ba�ti�}a.–�Ni�je�on�na{�mi�ni�star,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�ne�go�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je.–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�mo�gu�li�da�vas�pi�tam�jed�nu�stvar�pa�da�pre�ki�ne�mo�raz�-

go�vor?–�Iz�vo�li�te.–�Ko�je�vas�ovla�stio�da�me�ne�i�mo�ju�po�ro�di�cu�uz�ne�mi�ra�va�te�i�za�stra�{u�je�-

te?�Ko�ste�vi,�na�kra�ju�kra�je�va?�Ot�kud�znam�je�ste�li�uop�{te�iz�Tri�bu�na�la�ilise�sa�mo�ta�ko�pred�sta�vqa�te�da�ute�ru�je�te�strah�po�srp�skim�po�ro�di�ca�ma�i�da�ihte�le�fo�nom�sa�ti�ma�mal�tre�ti�ra�te?�Ja�se�~u�dim�sam�se�bi�za�{to�vam�ne�spu�stimslu�{a�li�cu.�To�}u�i�u~i�ni�ti�ovog�~a�sa,�ako�mi�ne�ka�̀ e�te�ot�kud�vam�po�da�ci�ome�ni�i�ka�ko�ste�do�{li�do�me�ne.

–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�ne�moj�te�da�pre�ki�da�te�raz�go�vor.�Ne�mo�gu�da�vam�ka�̀ emot�kud�zna�mo�za�vas,�ali�za�sa�da�vi�se�ko�ti�ra�te�vi�so�ko�u�Ha�{kom�tri�bu�na�lu.

–�Ko�se�ko�ti�ra�vi�so�ko?–�Vi,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.–�Na�osno�vu�~e�ga?–�To�ne�mo�gu�da�vam�ka�̀ em.–�Mo�lim�te,�Mi�la�ne,�ti�{to�pre�vo�di{,�re�ci�tom�tvom�Pa�o�lu�da�ne�lu�pe�-

67

Page 68: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

ta�bi�lo�{ta.–�Ne�bri�ni�te.�Ja�sva�ku�va�{u�re~�pre�ve�dem�do�slov�ce,�bu�di�te�si�gur�ni�u�to.

To�je�moj�po�sao�i�za�to�sam�pla�}en.–�Do�bro,�sa�da�mu�re�ci�te�da�ja�bez�zna�wa�mo�je�dr�̀ a�ve,�SRJ,�i�mo�je�re�pu�bli�-

ke�Sr�bi�je,�ne�mam�na�me�ru,�ni�ti�mi�pa�da�na�pa�met,�da�se�po�ja�vim�pred�Pa�o�lomPa�sto�re�om�u�Be�o�gra�du,�a�on�ne�ka�pre�ti�po�li�ci�jom�ne�ko�me�dru�gom.�Ako�me�niMi�ni�star�stvo�prav�de�na�lo�̀ i�da�se�oda�zo�vem�u�za�ka�za�no�vre�me,�ko�je�ono�od�re�-di,�oda�zva�}u�se,�ali,�ako�mi�oni�ne�po�{a�qu�do�pis,�bu�di�te�ube�|e�ni�da�ne�do�la�-zi�u�ob�zir�da�se�po�ja�vim�i�dam�in�ter�vju.

–�Okej,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�oba�ve�sti�}e�mo�SRJ,�a�oni�}e�oba�ve�sti�ti�Mi�ni�-star�stvo�Re�pu�bli�ke�Sr�bi�je.�Mi�mo�ra�mo�da�oba�ve�sti�mo�Mi�ni�star�stvo�SRJ,�aoni�}e�raz�mo�tri�ti�da�li�tre�ba�da�an�ga�̀ u�ju�i�Mi�ni�star�stvo�pravds�Sr�bi�je�jermi�uvek�oba�ve�{ta�va�mo�vi�{u�in�stan�cu.�

Ta�ko�se�za�vr�{io�moj�pr�vi�te�le�fon�ski�kon�takt�sa�ha�{kim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qemPa�o�lom�Pa�sto�re�om�Sto�hi�jem.

Iza�{ao�sam�u�dvo�ri�{te�svo�je�ku�}e,�ko�ja� je,�iako�do�tra�ja�la,�skrom�na�isklo�na�pa�du,�me�ni�bi�la�dra�ga�jer�sam�se�u�woj�ro�dio.�U�woj�sam�na�u�~io�pr�ve�ko�-ra�ke,�iz�go�vo�rio�pr�ve�re�~i,�u~io�pr�va�slo�va,�otac�i�maj�ka�su�me�u~i�li�da�seznam�pra�vo�slav�no�pre�kr�sti�ti,�u~i�li�me�{ta�je�Bo�̀ i},�na�{a�sla�va�Di�mi�trov�-dan,�za�\ur�|ev�dan�sam�sa�maj�kom�ki�tio�ka�pi�ju,�za�Ivaw�dan�sam�pleo�ven�ce�ista�vqao�ih�na�ku�}u.�Se�tio�sam�se�de�tiw�stva�i�da�na�iz�ra�ne�mla�do�sti.�Se�}a�wasu�na�vi�ra�la�kao�na�do�{la�re�ka�i�bu�di�la�u�me�ni�ne�ku�sna�gu�ka�ko�bih�mo�gao�dais�tra�jem.�Na�sme�jao�sam�se�du�bo�ko�iz�sr�ca�i�du�{e.�Se�tih�se�ka�da�me�u�pe�tom�raz�-re�du�uma�lo�ne�iz�ba�ci�{e�iz�{ko�le,�jer�sam�na�stav�ni�ci�iz�ge�o�gra�fi�je�re�kao�dagra�ni�ce�iz�me�|u�na�{ih�re�pu�bli�ka�ni�su�pri�vid�ne�ne�go�da�su�stvar�ne.�Do�bih�do�-bre�ba�ti�ne,�a�oca�mi�od�ve�de�mi�li�ci�ja�te�ubi�{e�Bo�ga�u�we�mu.�Go�vo�re�}i�mu�daje�~et�nik�i�da�pri�pa�da�ne�koj�or�ga�ni�za�ci�ji�za�ko�ju�on�ni�ka�da�~uo�ni�je.�On�sebra�nio�da�ni�je,�a�oni�udri�po�po�lu�pi�sme�nom�~o�ve�ku�ko�ji�je�je�dva�umeo�da�sepot�pi�{e.�Ka�da�ga�do�ve�do�{e�ku�}i,�on�me�se�de�pre�da�se�i�ti�ho�mi�o~in�ski�re�~e’Is�tu�ko�{e�me�pra�va�i�zdra�va,�maj�ku�im�ko�mu�ni�sti~�ku,�a�ti,�ma�li,�ma�ni�se�gra�-ni�ca,�{ta�ti�zna{�o�gra�ni�ca�ma,�ako�na�sta�vi{�ubi�}e�i�te�be�i�me�ne.�Te�{ka�jeto�ba�gra,�si�ne,�ti�su�ve}�ze�mqu�ras�par�~a�li�i�uni�{ti�li,�ali�}u�ti�i�gle�daj�da�tu{ko�lu�za�vr�{i{�da�ne�̀ i�vi{�bed�no�kao�ja.�Upam�ti�na�{e�obi�~a�je�i�~u�vaj�~ast,a�sve�dru�go,�si�ne,�do�}i�}e�sa�mo�po�se�bi.�Me�ne�ova�ko�ni�usta�{e�ni�[va�be�ne�is�-tu�ko�{e�ka�da�nas�po�hva�ta�{e�go�re�na�Ba�ni�ji�1941.�go�di�ne’.�Se�tim�se�tih�we�go�-vih�re�~i�pa�mi�ne�ka�je�za�pro�stru�ja�kroz�ce�lo�te�lo.�Ni�sam�ni�pri�me�tio�da�sene�bo�na�mr�go�di�lo,�iz�da�qi�ne�se�~u�la�po�tmu�la�gr�mqa�vi�na,�ta�ko�da�ni�sam�ni�~uoka�ko�me�mo�ji�uku�}a�ni�zo�vu:�’Aj�de�sad,�{ta�je�tu�je.�I�dru�ge�smo�ne�da�}e�pre�gr�me�-li�i�ovu�}e�mo.�Ni�je�vaq�da�da�je�te�be�ko�na~�no�ne�{to�ustra�{i�lo’.�A�ja�mi�slim,ma�ne�mo�gu�ba{�re�}i�da�ni�je.

Iskre�no,�ne�bo�jim�se�jer�ne�mam�za�{to,�ali�me�mu�~i�ko�ji�bi�idi�ot�mo�gaota�ko�{to�da�re�ci�tu�je�po�tom�Tri�bu�na�lu�pa�iz�me�|u�osta�log�re�ci�tu�je�i�mo�jeime?�To�me�je�mu�~i�lo,�ali�to,�ve�ro�vat�no,�ne�}u�ni�ka�da�sa�zna�ti.�Do�{lo�je�vre�-me�da�se�me�|u�sob�no�pro�da�je�mo�i�iz�da�je�mo,�do�{lo�je�vre�me�ku�ka�vi~�lu�ka�i�be�de,sa�da�’vra�na�vra�ni�o~i�va�di’.�Jed�ni�dru�gi�ma�kli�po�ve�pod�me�}e�mo.�Sa�mo�je�u�to�-me�naj�go�re�{to�}e�is�kre�ne�pa�tri�o�te�stra�da�ti,�a�be�lo�svet�ski�{qam�ze�mqu�Sr�-68

Page 69: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

bi�ju�vo�di�ti.–�Jo�vo,�za�{to�ne�po�zo�ve{�Srp�sku�ra�di�kal�nu�stran�ku�i�ne�pi�ta{�ka�ko�da

po�stu�pi{?�Oni�qu�di�ima�ju�is�ku�stva,�pa�da�ti�po�mog�nu�da�po�sle�ne�bu�de�ka�sno.–�Ne�}u�da�zo�vem�ni�ko�ga,�na�ro�~i�to�ne�wih,�ka�da�su�po�ve�ro�va�li�u�hi�qa�du

glu�po�sti�ko�je�su�im�dru�gi�do�ja�vqi�va�li,�a�zna�ju�da�ni�je�isti�na.�Pa�zar�po�sle�to�-ga�da�im�se�sa�da�ja�obra�}am?�Ne�}u,�pa�ma�{ta�da�bu�de.�Znam�da�ni�sam�zlo�~i�nac.U�stva�ri,�pri�zna�jem�da�je�sam,�ako�je�zlo�~in�bra�ni�ti�svo�ju�ze�mqu�i�svoj�na�rod.A�iz�gle�da�da�je�da�nas�ta�ko.�

–�Do�bro,�ka�ko�ho�}e{,�ali...�–�[ta�’ali...’?�Osta�vi�me�da�raz�mi�slim.�Oni�iz�Tri�bu�na�la�me�ne�}e�osta�-

vi�ti�na�mi�ru.�Uosta�lom,�ja�jo{�i�ne�znam�o�~e�mu�se�ra�di.�Sa�~e�ka�}e�mo,�pa�}e�moda�vi�di�mo.�Za�to�vre�me�}e�mo�pre�ko�ne�kih�qu�di�ura�di�ti�da�Vo�jo�[e�{eq�istran�ka�sa�zna�ju�za�ovaj�po�ziv,�pa�}e�mo�vi�de�ti�wi�ho�vu�re�ak�ci�ju.�Sa�mo�se�bo�jimda�ja�wih�vi�{e�i�ne�za�ni�mam.�

–�Va�qa�pro�ba�ti�–�ni�je�od�u�sta�ja�la�Sne�̀ a�na.�–�Pa�ni�je�vrag�da�su�ba{�sveza�bo�ra�vi�li�{ta�si�ura�dio�za�stran�ku?�A�ako�je�su,�ne�ka�im�je�na�~ast.�On�da�suza�i�sta...�ali�bo�qe�da�ne�ka�̀ em.�A�on�da�mi�bar�od�go�vo�ri�za�{to�jo{�uvek�gla�sa�-mo�za�wih?

–�Ka�ko�za�{to?�Ne�mo�gu�ja�da�gla�sam�pro�tiv�se�be.�U�wu�sam�sve�ulo�̀ io,�iti�to�do�bro�zna{.�Ne�moj�mi�sta�re�ra�ne�otva�ra�ti.�Zna{�da�mi�jo{�ni�su�pot�pu�-no�za�ra�sle.�Jo�o�oj,�su�vi�{e�su�du�bo�ke�da�bi�ta�ko�ola�ko�za�ra�sle.�Za�to�ih�ne�di�raj,ne�ka�sve�ide�svo�jim�to�kom.�Ipak,�mi�slim�da�je�naj�bo�qe,�ili�da�bi�bi�lo�naj�bo�-qe,�da�ode{�do�Be�o�gra�da,�a�ti�ka�ko�ho�}e{.

–�Ne,�ne�do�la�zi�u�ob�zir.�Sne�̀ a�na,�sa�mo�da�se�ne�{to�do�go�vo�ri�mo,�za�jed�nosa�de�com:�za�sa�da�o�ovo�me�ni�ko�me�ni�re�~i,�a�po�sle�ka�ko�}e�bi�ti�–�vi�de�}e�mo.�Jeli�do�go�vo�re�no?�–�Do�go�vo�re�no�je.�Si�gur�no.�Ni�kad�te�ni�sam�osta�vi�la,�uvek�sambi�la�uz�te�be,�a�sa�da�po�go�to�vu.�Na�u�~io�si�ti�da�se�bo�ri{�i�da�po�be�|u�je{.�Svebit�ke�su�tvo�je�po�be�de.�Ve�ru�jem�da�}e{�i�sa�da�da�po�be�di{.�Ka�da�po�mi�slim,�mo�-`da�si�u�pra�vu�{to�ne�}e{�da�zo�ve{�SRS.�Ka�da�bo�qe�po�mi�slim,�i�wih�si�do�-bio�na�bor�be�nom�po�qu�~a�sti;�wi�ma�no�vac,�a�te�bi�je�pri�pa�lo�~ast�i�po�{te�we.Sa�~u�vao�si�obraz,�pa�te�i�da�nas�svi�ce�ne.�Ni�su�us�pe�li�da�ti�na�ne�su�zlo,�ne�go�sisa�da�ja�~i�ne�go�ika�da,�a�to�ih�mo�̀ da�i�bo�li.�Ko�}e�sve�to�po�ve�za�ti�i�zna�ti�Jo�-vo?�Sa�mo�znam�da�smo�ja�i�de�ca�uz�te�be�i�ima�mo�tu�dvo�ji�cu�pri�ja�te�qa�sa�po�sla.Ima�mo�i�ne�ko�li�ko�pri�ja�te�qa�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Ne�moj�se�`u�ri�ti,�tre�ba�sta�ti�nalop�tu.�

–�Do�bro.�Mo�̀ da�je�vre�me�naj�bo�qi�sa�vet�nik.�Ovo�je�sve�ne�na�da�no�i�br�zodo�{lo,�sve�iz�gle�da�bez�ika�kve�osno�ve.�Svi�su�mi�sa�da�pu�te�vi�sle�pi�sa�mo�onajko�ji�vo�di�pre�ma�po�ro�di�ci�je�{i�rom�otvo�ren.

20. avgust 2002. go di neTe�le�fon�je�za�zvo�nio.�Ja�vio�sam�se.–�Ha�lo,�iz�vo�li�te.�Do�bi�li�ste�stan�Jo�ve�Osto�ji�}a.–�Ov�de�Mi�lan�iz�Ha�ga.–�Do�bro.�Re�ci�te�{ta�ho�}e�te.–�Tre�ba�vas�is�tra�̀ i�teq.�Pa�o�lo�ho�}e�da�raz�go�va�ra�sa�va�ma,�a�ja�}u�da�pre�-

vo�dim.�Raz�go�vor�}e�bi�ti�kra�tak.–�U�re�du�je.�Ka�̀ i�te.

69

Page 70: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�mi�smo�oba�vi�li�raz�go�vor�sa�Mi�ni�star�stvom�prav�deSRJ,�a�ne�sa�Mi�ni�star�stvom�Sr�bi�je,�i�oni�}e�Va�ma�uru�~i�ti�wi�hov�do�pis,�a�mi}e�mo�na{�po�sla�ti,�ta�ko�da�}e�bi�ti�sve�u�re�du.�U�do�pi�su�}e�vam�bi�ti�na�zna�~e�-no�za�{to�vas�po�zi�va�mo.�Ono�{to�ste�zah�te�va�li,�mi�smo�vam�is�pu�ni�li.�Sa�da�sesa�raz�lo�gom�na�da�mo�da�}e�te�se�i�vi�oda�zva�ti�i�do�}i�na�raz�go�vor,�u�vre�me�ko�jeVam�bu�de�mo�za�ka�za�li.�Uko�li�ko�vas�ne�pu�ste�sa�po�sla,�mo�̀ e�te�se�obra�ti�ti�na�-ma�da�mi�re�a�gu�je�mo�pre�ko�Mi�ni�star�stva�prav�de�SRJ,�pre�ko�mi�ni�stra�prav�dedr�Sa�ve�Mar�ko�vi�}a.�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�je�li�sa�da�sve�u�re�du?

–�Ne�znam�{ta�da�od�go�vo�rim�dok�me�ne�kon�tak�ti�ra�Mi�ni�star�stvo�prav�deSRJ�ili�RS�i�ne�do�bi�jem�zva�ni�~an�do�pis.�Vi�ste�za�me�ne�ne�le�gi�tim�ni.�Sa�moobi~�ni�pro�vo�ka�to�ri...�Da�se�ne�po�na�vqam.�To�sam�vam�ve}�re�kao�u�pret�hod�nomraz�go�vo�ru.

–�Bu�di�te�ube�|e�ni�da�}e�bi�ti�sve�u�re�du�i�mi�vas�o~e�ku�je�mo.�Na�dam�se�da�ne�-}e�te�se�bi�do�pu�sti�ti�da�bu�de�te�pri�ve�de�ni�i�da�uz�bu�|u�je�te�{i�ru�jav�nost�i�uz�ne�-mi�ra�va�te�va�{u�oko�li�nu.�Ga�ran�tu�je�mo�vam�da�}e�te�se�na�kon�in�ter�vjua�vra�ti�tiva�{oj�po�ro�di�ci.

–�Ja�sam�svo�je�re�kao,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�i�od�to�ga�ne�od�u�sta�jem.–�Do�bro.�Raz�u�me�mo�se.�Sa�da�}e�mo�pre�ki�nu�ti�raz�go�vor.

15. septembar 2002. go di neTe�le�fon�je�za�zvo�nio.�Ja�vio�sam�se�i�pre�po�znao�glas�pre�vo�di�o�ca�Mi�la�na.–�Ha�lo.�Ov�de�Hag,�kan�ce�la�ri�ja�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Pa�o�la�Pa�sto�rea�Sto�hi�ja.�Je

li�to�mi�ster�Jo�vo�Osto�ji}?–�Je�ste,�ja�sam.�Iz�vo�li�te.–�Da�li�ste�do�bi�li�po�ziv�i�do�pis�od�Mi�ni�star�stva�prav�de�SRJ�i�od�nas?–�Do�bio�sam�i�je�dan�i�dru�gi�za�19.�9.�2002.�go�di�ne�sa�po�~et�kom�u�9�~a�so�va�u

Be�o�gra�du,�uli�ca�Je�vre�ma�Gru�ji�}a�broj�11.–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�mi�vas�~e�ka�mo.�Sma�tra�mo�da�do�la�zi�te�i�da�ne�}e�bi�ti

pro�ble�ma.�Kao�{to�ste�vi�de�li�iz�do�pi�sa�i�jed�nog�i�dru�gog,�mi�`e�li�mo�da�sve�-do�~i�te�pro�tiv�biv�{eg�pred�sed�ni�ka�SRJ�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a.

–�Do�bro,�do�la�zim.�Ali�ja�o�we�mu�ne�znam�ama�ba{�ni�{ta.–�Ni�je�va�̀ no.�Do�|i�te�da�po�pri�~a�mo.�Taj�raz�go�vor�}e�tra�ja�ti�3-5�da�na.–�Do�bro,�da�pre�ki�ne�mo�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�do�la�zim�u�za�ka�za�no�vre�me.Sa�da�ni�sam�imao�kud.�Mi�ni�star�stvo�prav�de�me�oba�ve�za�lo�da�se�po�ja�vim,

da�dam�iz�ja�vu,�ujed�no�me�oba�ve�zu�ju�}i�da�~u�vam�dr�̀ av�ne�i�voj�ne�taj�ne.�Oda�va�weistih�je�kri�vi~�no�de�lo�po�~la�no�vi�ma�129�i�224�Kri�vi~�nog�za�ko�na�SR�Ju�go�sla�-vi�je�i�pro�pi�sa�na�je�ka�zna�za�tvo�ra.

Ujed�no�se�na�po�mi�we�da�sve�tro�{ko�ve�sno�si�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nal.Na�zvao�sam�jed�nog�pri�ja�te�qa�u�Apa�ti�nu�i�po�ve�rio�mu�se.�Znao�sam�da�}e

on�alar�mi�ra�ti�Srp�sku�ra�di�kal�nu�stran�ku,�ma�da�mi�je�tvr�do�obe�}ao�da�ne�}e�ni�-ko�me�da�ka�̀ e�ni�re�~i.�Ve}�sam�o~e�ki�vao�da�me�na�zo�ve�ka�da�mi�se�ja�vio.�Bio�jesav�us�pla�hi�ran.�

–�Ne�moj�da�ide{.�Sa�krij�se�kod�me�ne.�–�Ne�}u�da�se�kri�jem.�Ne�mam�raz�lo�ga.�–�Imao�ti�raz�lo�ga�ne�imao,�sa�wi�ma�ne�ma�igre.–�Ma�ni�sad�to�i�ni�kom�ne�go�vo�ri,�pa�{ta�bu�de.Su�tra�dan,�oko�15�~a�so�va,�za�zvo�nio�je�te�le�fon.�Opet�se�ja�vio�moj�pri�ja�teq

70

Page 71: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

iz�Apa�ti�na.�Go�vo�rio�je�ti�ho,�sko�ro�ne�~uj�no.–�Je�si�li�ti?–�Ja�sam,�po�bo�gu.�[ta�se�de�si�lo?–�Zvao�sam�Be�o�grad.–�A�{to�si�zvao�bez�mog�zna�wa�i�ko�ga�si�zvao?–�Zvao�sam�go�re.–�Gde�go�re?–�U�SRS�i�po�ru�ka�sti�gla�do�glav�nog.–�I,�do�bro...�Ka�kav�je�od�go�vor?–�Bo�qe�da�ti�ne�ka`em.�Raz�o�~a�ra�}e{�se�jo{�vi�{e.–�Za�{to�da�se�ja�raz�o�~a�ram�ka�da�sam�ti�re�kao�da�to�dr�̀ i{�u�taj�no�sti,�a�ti

br�̀ e�bo�qe�da�oba�ve�sti{�bi�lo�ko�ga?–�Ni�je�to�ba{�bi�lo�ko�ga.�Ne�go�je�od�go�vor�ta�kav�da�se�~o�vek�ubi�je.–�Do�bro,�ho�}e{�li�ko�na~�no�da�ka�̀ e{�{ta�su�ti�re�kli?–�Haj�de�da�ti�ka�̀ em.�Re�kli�su�da�se�spre�~i{,�da�ne�ide{�u�Tri�bu�nal�po

bi�lo�ko�ju�ce�nu.�I�da�se�spre�~i{�na�bi�lo�ko�ji�na�~in,�a�da�se�sred�stva�ne�bi�-ra�ju.

–�Aj�de,�ne�pri�~aj!�Ni�su�ba{�ta�ko�od�go�vo�ri�li.–�Ma�je�su.�To�je�we�gov�od�go�vor,�glav�nog,�i�ja�sam�ostao�bez�re�~i.�To�ti�je�ta�-

ko...�Dok�tre�ba{,�bo�le�te�ra�me�na�od�tap�{a�wa,�a�kad�te�bi�oni�tre�ba�ju,�gu�be�isna�gu�i�ve�li�~i�nu�i,�jed�no�stav�no,�pre�pu�{ta�ju�te�sud�bi�ni,�pa�ka�ko�za�vr�{i{.�

–�Zna�~i�to�je�to.–�Da,�dru�gar.�To�je�to.�Sna�la�zi�se�ka�ko�zna{,�a�ja�bih�ti�pre�po�ru�~io�da�iz�-

beg�ne{�od�la�zak�ka�ko�zna{�i�ume{.–�Eh,�da�iz�beg�nem.�Na�kra�ju�kra�je�va,�od�~e�ga�bih�be�̀ ao.�Idem�da�vi�dim�{ta

ho�}e�i�to�je�to.�Ne�go,�za�bo�ra�vih�da�te�pi�tam:�ka�da�si�do�bio�taj�od�go�vor,�{ta�siti�od�go�vo�rio�na�to?

–�Gla�sno�ni�{ta,�a�u�se�bi�sam�re�kao:�’Idi�ti�pa�ga�spre�~i�ako�ima{�pe�-tqu,�a�ja�sam�svo�je�oba�vio’.�I�za�re�kao�sam�se�da�vi�{e�ne�}u�da�kon�tak�ti�ramone�go�re.

–�Do�bro,�do�bro...�Sve�je�u�re�du.�Sa�mo�u�mo�je�ime�ne�moj�vi�{e�ni�kad�da�ura�-di{�ta�ko�ne�{to�kao�{to�si�sa�da�ura�dio.�Uosta�lom,�i�ja�sam�po�ma�lo�kriv,�ni�-sam�ti�se�smeo�po�ve�ri�ti.�Ali,�to�vi�{e�ni�je�bit�no.

Opet�se�u�me�ne�uvu�~e�ne�ki�ne�mir.�Pa�zar�je�mo�gu�}e�da�su�ba{�ta�ko�od�go�vo�-ri�li?�Pro�sto�ne�mo�gu�da�ve�ru�jem!�O�~e�mu�se�tu�ra�di?�[ta�je�po�sre�di?�–�raz�-mi�{qao�sam,�ali�ni�sam�mo�gao�da�do�|em�do�za�kqu~�ka.�Ali�sa�da�sam�bar�znao�dau�bor�bu�idem�sam�bez�ika�kve�po�dr�{ke�sem�svo�je�po�ro�di�ce.�Lo�mio�sam�se�ka�koda�po�stu�pim.�Da�li�da�uz�vra�tim�ne�gda�{wi�uda�rac�ko�ji�me�je�te�{ko�po�tre�sao?Ako�̀ e�lim�da�se�re�van�{i�ram,�sa�da�je�iz�u�zet�na�pri�li�ka.�Ali,�za�to�tre�ba�iz�u�-zet�na�sna�ga,�bar�{to�se�me�ne�ti�~e.�Vi�de�}u�ka�sni�je,�pa�}u�se�od�lu�~i�ti.�Ali�ka�-ko�da�se�sve�tim�ka�da�ni�ko�od�mo�jih�ni�ka�da�ni�je�bio�cin�ka�ro{�i�pro�da�na�du�{a.Mo�ji�sta�ri�na�vr�de�do�vi�tu�kli�su�se�sa�Tur�ci�ma�i�po�no�sno�su�gi�nu�li,�pa�zar�wi�-hov�po�to�mak�sa�da�da�ura�di�glu�post�i�bu�de�ne�is�kren�i�ne�ve�ran.�’Ne�}e�mo�}i’,�mr�-mqao�sam�po�lu�gla�sno.�’Ne�}e{�ti�bi�ti�iz�rod.�Gla�vu�go�re�i�bo�ri�se.�Ono�je�sa�-da�tvo�ja�bor�ba�–�bez�sku�po�va,�`a�lo�poj�ki�i�is�pra�}a�ja.�Ide{�sam�pa�do�kle�stig�-ne{�i�{ta�ti�Bog�da’.

71

Page 72: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Sa�tim�mi�sli�ma�sam�18.�9.�2002.�go�di�ne�oti�{ao�za�Be�o�grad.�Pre�no�}io�samkod�si�nov�ca�Zo�ra�na�i�si�nov�ke�Mil�ke.�Ni�sam�im�ni�{ta�pri�~ao,�jer�ni�sam�̀ e�-leo�da�ih�op�te�re�}u�jem�svo�jim�pro�ble�mi�ma.

No}�je�bi�la�du�ga�i�do�sad�na.�Gle�dao�sam�TV,�ali�uza�lud.�San�na�o~i�ne�}e�pane�}e.�Raz�mi�{qao�sam�o�su�tra�{wem�da�nu�ma�lo�mir�ni�je.�Ose�}ao�sam�da�me�nezo�vu�zbog�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a.�Ali�ka�kva�je�on�da�pre�va�ra�u�pi�ta�wu?�Jer,�bio�sam�si�-gu�ran,�iako�ni�sam�mo�gao�da�se�ra�za�be�rem�o�~e�mu�je�re~,�da�se�o�ne�koj�pre�va�ri�ipod�me�ta�wu�ra�di.�Wi�hov�do�pis�ni�sam�is�pu�{tao�iz�ru�ku.�̂ i�tao�sam�ga�po�ko�znako�ji�put,�pre�sa�vi�jao,�vra�}ao�u�ko�ve�rat�i�opet�ga�va�dio,�pa�iz�po�~et�ka.�Bo�̀ e,{ta�li�su�mi�sku�va�li?�Ka�kva�li�je�to�ka�{a�i�ho�}u�li�je�mo�}i�pro�gu�ta�ti?�U�svojmu�ci�po�~eo�sam�da�se�sme�jem�na�glas.�Ka�kav�li�je�za�~in�ka�{i,�moj�Jo�va�ne�–�ale�-va�qu�ta,�bi�ber,�so,�pa�opet�qu�ta�do�ma�}a�pa�pri�ka.�A�{ta�ako�mi�jo{�iz�me�{a�juonu�mek�si~�ku,�mi�li�Bo�̀ e...�Ala�}e�bi�ti�pa�pre�no!�Ne�znam�pu�ta,�ne�znam�sta�zesvud�go�ka�men�no�ge�ga�ze�po�Tri�bu�na�lu.

19. septembar 2002. go di neJu�tro.Ki�{a�je�la�ga�no�pa�da�la.�Ne�ka�sit�na�i�do�sad�na.�Zo�ran�do�|e�u�dnev�ni�bo�-

ra�vak.–�Pa�do�bro,�stri�ka�ne,�ti�ni�ka�ko�ni�si�spa�vao.�[ta�ti�je?–�Ni�je�mi�ni�{ta.�Idem�na�ne�ku�sed�ni�cu�pa�sam�ma�lo�uz�ne�mi�ren.–�[ta�je�to�to�li�ko�va�̀ no�da�ti�oka�ne�sklo�pi?–�Ma�ni�{ta,�si�nov�~e.�[to�ma�we�zna{�bo�qe�je,�a�ja�sad�mo�ram�da�idem.�Sed�-

ni�ca�je�za�ka�za�na�za�9�~a�so�va,�a�sa�da�je�7.30�~a�so�va.–�Ne�`u�ri�se.�Ja�}u�da�te�pre�ba�cim�autom.�Tvo�je�je�da�ka�̀ e{�sa�mo�gde.�–�Ej,�si�no�vac...�To�ne�do�la�zi�u�ob�zir.�Iz�od�re�|e�nih�raz�lo�ga�ne�mo�̀ e{�sa

mnom.–�Do�bro.�Ka�ko�ka�̀ e{.Sti�gao�sam�ta~�no�u�9�~a�so�va�na�ka�pi�ju�pred�stav�ni�{tva�Tri�bu�na�la.Stra�̀ ar�obez�be�|e�wa�me�je�za�u�sta�vio�i�za�tra�̀ io�li~�nu�kar�tu.–�Osto�ji�}u,�ko�ga�vi�ov�de�tre�ba�te?�–�pi�tao�me�je,�od�me�ra�va�ju�}i�me�od�gla�ve

do�pe�te,�svo�jim�sit�nim,�hlad�nim�po�gle�dom�kao�da�je�̀ e�leo�da�me�po�gle�da�iz�nu�-tra�kao�i�spo�qa.�

–�Imam�za�ka�za�no�kod�go�spo�di�na�is�tra�̀ i�te�qa�Pa�o�la�Sto�hi�ja.–�O�jes,�jes.�Opro�sti�te,�sa�mo�da�ga�na�zo�vem.�Na�po�ziv�i�iz�me�we�nih�par�re�~i,�ka�pi�ja�se�otvo�ri.Kre�nuh�niz�ma�lu�pa�di�nu�pre�ma�zgra�di.�Na�vra�ti�ma�je�sta�jao�~o�vek�sred�-

weg�ra�sta,�ve�o�ma�raz�vi�jen.�Mi�{i�}i�su�se�na�zi�ra�li�is�pod�do�bro�za�teg�nu�te�ode�-}e.�U~i�ni�lo�mi�se�da�no�si�la�ki�grud�ni�pan�cir.

–�Po�ma�̀ e�Bog,�go�spo�di�ne.]u�tao�je�i�ni�je�se�po�me�rao.�Od�me�rio�sam�ga�od�gla�ve�do�pe�te.�Ni�je�mi�dao

da�u|em�u�zgra�du.�Tra�̀ io�je,�po�kre�ti�ma,�da�po�dig�nem�ru�ke,�da�me�pre�tre�se�dane�mam�ne�ko�oru �̀je.�Od�bio�sam�da�po�dig�nem�ru�ke,�po�ku�{ao�je�jo{�jed�nom.�Od�-gur�nuo�sam�ga�i�vik�nuo�’Ne�pri�la�zi!’.�Vi�deo�sam�da�me�wa�bo�ju.�U�tom�mo�men�tuna�vra�ti�ma�se�po�ja�vi�mla�da�le�pa�pla�vu�{a.�

–�Vi�ste�mi�ster�Osto�ji}?�–�Da,�je�sam.�

72

Page 73: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Obra�ti�la�se�uqud�no:–�Mo�ra�te�da�do�pu�sti�te�da�vas�pre�tre�su.�Ta�kav�je�ov�de�ku}�ni�red�i�mo�ra�te

ga�po�{to�va�ti.�Ne�moj�te�pra�vi�ti�pro�ble�me�bi�}e�bo�qe�za�vas.�Vas�sva�ka�ko�mo�-ra�ju�pre�tre�sti.�

Ne�mam�ni�{ta�pro�tiv,�ali�da�mi�pre�vr�}e�yepo�ve�–�ne�}e�mo�}i.�Na�kra�ju�smona�{li�re�{e�we,�sa�ko�i�man�til�i{li�su�ta�mo�gde�se�pre�gle�da�ju�tor�be,�a�is�pi�-ti�va�~em�je�utvr�|e�no�da�kod�se�be�ne�mam�ni�{ta.

Mla�da�da�ma,�pre�vo�di�lac,�od�ve�la�me�je�na�sprat�u�jed�nu�kan�ce�la�ri�ju�gde�samma�lo�pri�~e�kao.�Ubr�zo�se�po�ja�vio�Pa�o�lo�Sto�hi.

–�Sti�gli�ste.�–�we�go�ve�re�~i�pre�vo�di�la�je�mla�da�da�ma.–�Da,�sti�gao�sam.�Je�ste�li�sa�da�za�do�voq�ni?�Ok!�Ka�ko�ne!�Su�per.�Bo�qe�ta�-

ko�ne�go�da�vas�hva�ta�mo�i�pri�vo�di�mo.–�Ako�je�ta�ko,�on�da�smo�re�{i�li�pr�vi�pro�blem.�Za�dru�ge�}e�mo�da�vi�di�mo.–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�mo�̀ e�te�li�da�me�sa�~e�ka�te�par�mi�nu�ta?�Mo�ram�da�se

ja�vim�u�Hag�po�va�{em�pi�ta�wu.–�Da,�ka�ko�da�ne...�Sa�mo�vi�iz�vo�li�te.Za�to�vre�me�pa�u�ze,�pre�vo�di�lac�mi�je�pra�vio�dru�{tvo.Br�zo�sam�je�upi�tao:�–�Ka�ko�ti�je�ime?–�To�za�vas�ni�je�bit�no�i�ni�ste�vi�ov�de�da�me�ne�is�pi�tu�je�te.–�Je�si�li�Srp�ki�wa,�kad�si�ta�ko�le�pa?�Ona�me�po�gle�da,�na�sme�ja�se�i�`u�stro�od�go�vo�ri:–�To�ni�je�bit�no.�–�Mo�̀ da�je�bit�no.–�Re�kla�sam�da�ni�je.–�Do�bro.�A�ka�kav�je�ovaj�is�tra�̀ i�teq?–�Ho�}e�te�li�vi�me�ne�osta�vi�ti�na�mi�ru?�Je�dva�sam�po�sao�do�bi�la.�Zar�vi�ho�-

}e�te�da�ga�iz�gu�bim?�–�od�bru�si�ona�i�qu�ti�to�na�pu�sti�pro�sto�ri�ju.Vra�ti�la�se�sa�Pa�o�lom�i�jed�nim�vi�so�kim�~o�ve�kom.�Po�po�na�{a�wu�i�iz�gle�-

du,�li�~io�mi�je�na�Nem�ca.�Pri�la�zi�li�su�k�me�ni,�a�ona�im�je�ne�{to�ob�ja�{wa�va�-la�na�te~�nom�en�gle�skom.�Sti�go�{e�do�me�ne�i�ona�po�no�vo�pred�sta�vi�Pa�o�la,�adru�gi�go�spo�din�se�pred�sta�vi�–�Ur�lih�Mu�se�ma�jer.

–�Me�ne�za�ni�ma�i�va�{e�ime,�a�vi�ne�}e�te�da�se�pred�sta�vi�te.–�To�ni�je�bit�no.�Re�a�go�vao�je�is�tra�̀ i�teq.–�Ov�de,�iz�gle�da,�ni�{ta�ni�je�bit�no,�osim�{to�sam�ja�sti�gao�na�vre�me.�Sve

dru�go�je�ne�va�̀ no.–�Re�ci�mo�da�je�ta�ko.�Od�go�vo�ri�Pa�o�lo.–�Ide�mo.–�Gde�ide�mo?–�Da�za�po~�ne�mo�sa�ra�dom.Kre�nuo�sam�za�wi�ma.�U{li�smo�u�jed�nu�ma�lu�pro�sto�ri�ju.�Pro�zo�ri,�kao�i

pla�ka�ri�sve�je�bi�lo�ozna�~e�no�tra�ka�ma,�u�stva�ri�ule�pqe�ni.�Okre�tao�sam�se�le�-vo-de�sno.�Ni�{ta�upa�dqi�vo�u�tom�ma�lom�so�bi~�ku.�Bi�la�su�dva�rad�na�sto�la:�je�-dan�po�sta�vqen�pa�ra�lel�no�sa�pla�ka�ri�ma,�sa�de�sne�stra�ne�pro�sto�ri�je,�i�iza�sto�-la�na�la�zi�le�su�se�dve�sto�li�ce.�Dru�gi�sto�je�bio�pa�ra�le�lan�sa�pro�zo�rom�gle�da�-no�pra�vo�od�vra�ta�i�na�we�mu�se�na�la�zio�kom�pju�ter,�a�iza�sto�la�jed�na�sto�li�ca

73

Page 74: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

za�se�de�we.�U�tom�ma�lom�sku�~e�nom�pro�sto�ru�u�ma�lom�kva�dra�tu�slo�bod�nog�pro�-sto�ra�na�la�zi�la�se�pla�sti~�na�sto�li�ca,�ne�ba{�udob�na�u�{to�}u�se�ubr�zo�i�uve�-ri�ti,�a�na�zi�du�le�vo�od�vra�ta�ne�gde�u�vi�si�ni�pla�fo�na�na�la�zio�se�kli�ma�ure�|aj.

–�Iz�vo�li�te�se�sti,�mi�ster�Osto�ji}.–�Hva�la�vam.–�Ka�ko�ste�pu�to�va�li?–�U�su�{ti�ni�do�bro.–�Kad�ste�sti�gli?–�Ju�~e.–�U�ko�li�ko�sa�ti?�–�Pa�zar�je�to�bit�no.–�Mo�̀ da�je�ste.�–�Sti�gao�sam�oko�22�~a�sa.�–�Gde�ste�spa�va�li?–�Kod�mo�jih�ro�|a�ka.–�Vi�di�te�ka�ko�le�po�vi�i�ja�raz�go�va�ra�mo?–�Za�sa�da�ne�ma�po�tre�be�da�dru�ga�~i�je�raz�go�va�ra�mo.–�Dra�go�mi�je�da�imam�pri�ja�te�qa�kao�{to�ste�vi.�Za�i�sta�mi�je�dra�go.–�[ta�vam�je�dra�go?–�Da�smo�pri�ja�te�qi.–�Ka�ko�mo�̀ e�mo�bi�ti�pri�ja�te�qi�ka�da�vas�pr�vi�put�vi�dim?–�To�ni�je�bit�no.�Mi�smo�pri�ja�te�qi�jer�ima�mo�za�jed�ni~�kog�ne�pri�ja�te�qa.�–�Mo�gu�li�ja�zna�ti�tog�za�jed�ni~�kog�ne�pri�ja�te�qa?�Ima�li�on�svo�je�ime�i

pre�zi�me?�–�Ima.�To�je�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq.–�[ta�ste�to�re�kli?–�Re�kao�sam�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq.�Sve�znam�{ta�su�vam�ura�di�li�iz�SRS,�ka�ko

ste�pro�{li�u�stran�ci.–�Kad�zna�te,�is�pri�~aj�te�mi.�Pa�o�lo�Pa�sto�re�Sto�hi�ot�po�~e�svo�ju�pri�~u.�Gle�dao�sam�ga�sa�po�do�zre�wem.

Istog�~a�sa�sam�ga�omr�znuo.�Vi�deo�sam�od�mah�sa�kim�imam�po�sla�–�sa�pod�mu�-klim�i�opa�snim�ti�pom�`eq�nim�zla,�jer�od�zla�je�bio�i�sat�kan.�Za�i�grao�je�ustar�tu�na�kar�tu�srp�ske�ne�slo�ge.�Ba�cao�je�kost�me�|u�nas�kao�da�smo�glad�ni�psi,pa�ko�pr�vi�do�oglo�da�ne�ko�sti.�Pri�~ao�je�de�taq�no�o�sve�mu:�ka�ko�sam�do�{ao�ustran�ku,�{ta�sam�sve�ra�dio�i,�na�kra�ju,�ka�ko�sam�okle�ve�tan�oti�{ao�iz�stran�ke.Gri�zao�sam�svo�ju�do�wu�usnu.�Zna�~i�u�pi�ta�wu�je�[e�{eq,�a�ne�Mi�lo�{e�vi}.

–�Za�to�sma�tram�da�smo�pri�ja�te�qi.�–�za�vr�{i�on�pri�~u.�–�Re�ci�te�mi�je�li�ovota~�no�{to�sam�vam�is�pri�~ao?

–�Je�ste,�ta~�no�je,�ali�to�ni�je�va{�pro�blem.�[ta�se�vas�ti�~e�moj�od�nos�sa�bi�-lo�kim?�To�je�mo�ja�pri�vat�na�sgvar.�[to�se�vi�u�to�pe�tqa�te,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo?�

–�Pa�ka�ko�{to?�Ja�̀ e�lim�da�za�{ti�tim�svog�pri�ja�te�qa�i�sa�rad�ni�ka.�Vi�steod�da�nas�pod�na�{om�za�{ti�tom.�

–�Pod�~i�jom�za�{ti�tom?�–�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.–�A�kad�se�Tri�bu�nal�uga�si,�pod�~i�jom�}u�on�da�za�{ti�tom�bi�ti?�Ma,�ko�ga�to,

go�spo�di�ne,�vu�~e�te�za�nos�i�la�̀ e�te�dok�pqu�je�te�po�jed�nom�od�naj�hra�bri�jih�da�-74

Page 75: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

nas�srp�skih�si�no�va,�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu�[e�{e�qu?�Je�ste�li�vi�sve�sni�{ta�pri�~a�te?Po�ku�{a�va�te�me�ne�da�ob�ma�ne�te.�Je�ste�li�me�za�to�zva�li?�

–�Ne,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�sa�mo�da�Vam�ka�̀ em...�–�[ta�ti�me�ni�da�ka�̀ e{?�Ne�moj�vi�{e�da�me�pre�ki�da{.�Dok�bu�de�tra�jao

ovaj�raz�go�vor,�da�to�vi�{e�ni�si�u~i�nio,�i�da�me�vi�{e�ni�si�na�zvao�svo�jim�pri�-ja�te�qem.�Ka�kav�si�mi�ti�pri�jatsq?�Iz�tvo�je�Ita�li�je�su�do�le�ta�li�avi�o�ni�ibom�bar�do�va�li�mo�ju�Sr�bi�ju,�mo�ju�Otaybi�nu.�[ta�da�ti�pri�~am�ka�da�i�ne�zna{{ta�je�Otaybi�na?!�Ne�moj�te�vi�{e�da�me�la�̀ e�te.�Vi�ste,�go�spo�di�ne,�la�̀ ov.�Ito�te�̀ ak�la�̀ ov.�Po�sla�li�ste�mi�po�ziv�za�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,�a�po�ku�{a�va�te�da�za�-va�di�te�me�ne�i�[e�{e�qa.�Ocr�wu�je�te�Srp�sku�ra�di�kal�nu�stran�ku�i�Srp�ski�do�-bro�vo�qa~�ki�po�kret.

–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�mo�gu�li�da�ka�̀ em�ne�{to?–�Ne�mo�̀ e{.�Ne�}u�da�te�slu�{am,�bru�ko�i�sra�mo�to�be�lo�svet�ska.–�Pa�u�za.–�Ka�kva�pa�u�za?�Ne�da{�me�ni�da�pri�~am.�Pri�~a�}e{�ti�vi�dim�{ta.�Sa�mo

da�mi�je�zna�ti�ko�ti�je�ov�de�sve�to�ta�ko�le�po�od�re�ci�to�vao.–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u�–�pa�u�za.–�Do�bro,�ne�ka�ti�bu�de.�Pre�vo�di�teq�ka�mi�je�pri�{la�i�upi�ta�la:–�[ta�}e�te�za�do�ru�~ak?�–�[to�i�osta�li.�–�Zna�~i�bu�rek�i�jo�gurt?–�Mo�̀ e,�ni�je�pro�blem.�Sta�jao�sam�na�te�ra�si�i�po�sma�trao�oko�li�nu�ka�da�mi

pri�|e�Ur�lih�ma�lo�po�tom�i�pre�vo�di�teq�ka.�–�Po�sma�tra�te�grad,�lep�po�gled.–�Da.–�Zna�te,�Osto�ji�}u,�ovaj�po�gled�me�pod�se�}a�na�Bu�dim.�Ne�dav�no�sam�bio�u

Ma�|ar�skoj.–�Ka�ko�da�vas�ne�pod�se�}a,�ka�da�su�Bu�dim�gra�di�li�Sr�bi�kao�i�ovo�ov�de.–�Ka�ko�mi�sli�te:�Sr�bi?–�Jed�no�stav�no.�Gro�gra�da�su�iz�gra�di�li�Sr�bi,�na�ro�~i�to�u�sred�wem�ve�ku�ka�-

da�su�se�po�vla�~i�li�is�pred�Tu�ra�ka�i�na�se�qa�va�li�ne�na�se�qe�ne�i�pu�ste�de�lo�veAustrij�ske�ca�re�vi�ne.�Obi~�no�su�i{li�u�prav�cu�gde�su�ve}�`i�ve�li�Sr�bi.�Go�-spo�di�ne�Ur�lih,�du�ga�je�to�pri�~a.

–�Vi�di�te,�pr�vi�put�~u�jem�da�su�Sr�bi�gra�di�li�gra�do�ve�u�Ma�|ar�skoj�i�Ugar�-skoj.

–�Na�sta�vqa�mo�–�~uo�se�glas�Pa�o�la.Sva�ko�je�za�u�zeo�svo�je�me�sto.–�Mo�̀ e�mo�da�kre�ne�mo.�–�[to�se�me�ne�ti�~e,�mo�̀ e.–�U�re�du.�Vi�ste�ro�|e�ni�u�Pri�gre�vi�ci�3.�1.�1952.�go�di�ne?–�Je�sam.–�Od�oca�Alek�se�i�maj�ke�Evi�ce,�ro�|e�ne�Vu�ja�kli�ja-Gu�zi}?–�Da,�ta~�no�je.–�I�sa�da�`i�vi�te�u�Pri�gre�vi�ci,�ul.�Ni�ne�Ma�ra�ko�vi�}a�7?�O`e�we�ni�ste

Sne�̀ a�nom,�devoja~ko�Mar�ko�vi}?75

Page 76: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Da.–�Ima�te�dvo�je�de�ce�–�}er�ku�i�si�na�i�unu�ku?–�Da,�ta~�no�je.–�Za�po�sle�ni�ste�u�SO�Apa�tin?–�Da,�ta~�no�je.–�Su�pru�ga�vam�je�ne�za�po�sle�na,�kao�i�de�ca?–�Da,�ta~�no�je.–�Sa�mi�ra�di�te?–�Da.–�Ra�di�te�na�me�stu�ma�ti�~a�ra?–�Da.–�Sa�da�da�vas�pi�tam�sa�ko�li�ko�ste�do�bro�vo�qa�ca�naj�vi�{e�ko�man�do�va�li.–�Ni�sam�ih�bro�jao�re�ci�mo�15�hi�qa�da.–�Je�l’�ih�bi�lo�to�li�ko?–�Bi�lo�je�i�vi�{e.–�Ko�li�ko�ste�vi�naj�vi�{e�od�ve�li�na�front?–�[est�hi�qa�da.–�[ta�je�bi�la�u�to�me�ulo�ga�[e�{e�qe�va?–�Po�mom�zna�wu,�ni�ka�kva.–�Ka�ko�to?�Mi�ima�mo�dru�ga�~i�je�in�for�ma�ci�je.–�Ako�ima�te�dru�ge�in�for�ma�ci�je,�{to�ste�me�po�zva�li?�Kon�tak�ti�raj�te�ono�-

ga�ko�vam�je�dao�ta�kve�in�for�ma�ci�je,�a�ja�da�idem�ku�}i.–�Re�ci�te�mi�ka�ko�ste�od�la�zi�li�na�ra�ti�{te?–�Auto�bu�si�ma.–�Ko�je�da�vao�auto�bu�se?–�Ni�ko.�Auto�bu�si�su�pla�}e�ni.–�Ko�je�dao�no�vac?–�Na�rod.�Sva�ko�po�ma�lo.–�A�Srp�ska�ra�di�kal�na�stran�ka?–�Ne.�Ot�kud�woj�u�to�vre�me�no�vac,�iz�gle�da�da�ste�vi�za�sve�in�for�mi�sa�ni

sa�mo�umno�go�me�na�kri�vo,�od�no�sno�po�gre�{no.–�Je�ste�li�ima�li�za�ro�bqe�ni�ka?–�Je�smo,�na�Ku�pre�su.�Svi�su�pre�ba�~e�ni�za�Knin,�gde�ih�je�sve�oslo�bo�dio�bi�-

ci�kli�sta.–�Ko�je�bi�ci�kli�sta?–�Pa�ni}.–�O�da.�Okej.�Okej.–�Je�ste�li�ko�ga�stre�qa�li?–�Ni�smo�ni�ko�ga.�Vi�iz�gle�da�pro�vo�ci�ra�te.–�To�mi�je�po�sao.–�On�da�na�sta�vi�te.–�[ta�vam�je�re�kao�[e�{eq�ka�da�ni�ste�stre�qa�li�za�ro�bqe�ni�ke,�ne�go�su

oslo�bo�|e�ni?–�Ot�kud�znam�{ta�je�re�kao?�Ni�sam�~o�ve�ka�ni�vi�deo�ni�~uo.–�^u�di�me�da�va�{em�pret�po�sta�vqe�nom�ni�ste�ja�vi�li.–�Ni�je�[e�{eq�bio�pred�po�sta�vqe�ni�na�ma�na�fron�tu.�Na�fron�tu�su�glav�-

76

Page 77: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

nu�re~�vo�di�le�voj�ne�sta�re�{i�ne�Voj�ske�Re�pu�bli�ke�Srp�ske,�a�u�Kra�ji�ni�sta�re�-{i�ne�Voj�ske�Srp�ske�Kra�ji�ne.�I�ka�kve�sa�da�tu�ve�ze�ima�[e�{eq?�Kud’ ste�seoko�mi�li�na�we�ga?

–�Za�i�sta�~ud�no.�On�i�SRS�po�ku�{a�li�su�da�vas�uni�{te,�a�vi�sa�da�bra�ni�te[e�{e�qa�i�SRS.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�ne�bra�nim�ja�ni�ko�ga,�go�vo�rim�sa�mo�isti�nu.�Zbog�~e�gaho�}e�te�da�ja�la�̀ em.�Ka�ko�da�ka�̀ em�da�je�[e�{eq�ra�to�vao�ka�da�ni�je.�Ona�ko�vi�-sok�i�kru�pan�ne�bi�se�du�go�na�no�sio�gla�ve,�a�me�ni�se�~i�ni�da�i�sa�da�ima�te�za�ciqda�ga�skra�ti�te�za�gla�vu.�Ja,�kao�Sr�bin,�spre�man�sam�da�se�bo�rim�za�Vo�ji�sla�va[e�{e�qa.

–�Dru�gi�su�ov�de�dru�ga�~i�je�pri�~a�li�od�vas.–�[ta�su�dru�gi�go�vo�ri�li,�to�me�ne�ne�in�te�re�su�je�i�ne�bih�vo�leo�zna�ti�ko

su.�Mo�̀ da�je�bo�qe.�Ne�}u�sa�tim�da�se�op�te�re�}u�jem.–�Da�li�ste�vi�bi�li�an�ga�̀ o�va�ni�u�Ba�ra�wi?–�Je�sam.–�Ko�li�ko�du�go?–�Do�sta�du�go,�od�po�~et�ka�do�kra�ja�ra�ta�u�Ba�ra�wi.–�Ko�je�bio�glav�ni�~et�ni~�ki�ko�man�dant�za�Voj�vo�di�nu?–�To�za�i�sta�ne�znam.–�Zna�te�li�ko�je�osno�vao�Du�nav�sku�di�vi�zi�ju,�mi�slim�~et�ni~�ku?–�[ta�je�va�ma?�Zar�je�ta�ko�ne�{to�po�sto�ja�lo?�Mo�̀ da�u�ma�{ta�ri�ja�ma�i�pri�-

~i.�Ja�za�ta�kvo�{to�ne�znam.–�Do�bro.�A�po�zna�je�te�li�vi�voj�vo�du�Zdrav�ka�Abra�mo�vi�}a�iz�Som�bo�ra?–�Po�zna�jem.�I�to�ja�ko�do�bro.–�Za�{to�vas�dvo�ji�ca�ni�ste�u�do�brim�od�no�si�ma?–�Ni�je�ta~�no�da�ni�smo�u�do�brim�od�no�si�ma.–�Ka�kva�je�we�go�va�ulo�ga�bi�la�u�do�bro�vo�qa~�kom�i�~et�ni~�kom�po�kre�tu?–�Ni�ka�kva.�Bio�je�mar�gi�nal�na�li~�nost�u�sve�mu�to�me.�Vi�{e�je�bio�po�li�-

ti~�ki�an�ga�̀ o�van.–�Is�pa�de�da�ste�vi�sve�sa�mi�ra�di�li.–�To�ni�sam�re�kao.�Vi�mi�po�sta�vqa�te�ne�po�ve�za�na�pi�ta�wa.–�Na�pri�mer,�je�ste�li�ima�li�ko�man�di�re�ba�ta�qo�na,�~e�ta,�ma�wih�for�ma�ci�-

ja,�itd?–�Je�sam.–�Zna�te�li�wi�ho�va�ime�na?–�Znam.–�Mo�lim�vas�da�nam�ih�pa�̀ qi�vo�na�bro�ji�te�sa�adre�som�sta�no�va�wa.–�Mo�̀ e,� pi�{i�te:� Ra�{e�ta�Mi�lan� iz�Pri�gre�vi�ce,�Ili�ja� Ra�|e�no�vi}� iz

Apa�ti�na,�Ka�law�iz�Apa�ti�na.–�Do�bro.�A�gde�su�oni�sa�da?–�Sa�hra�we�ni�su.�Svi�su�po�gi�nu�li,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.�Mr�tvi�su,�kao�i�jo{

mno�gi�dru�gi�ko�man�dan�ti.�Na�pri�mer,�Bo�go�iz�Kqa�ji�}e�va,�itd.–�Kod�vas�su�svi�is�prav�ni�ili�mr�tvi.�Ima�li�iko�`iv?–�Ima.–�Ko�je�taj?–�Ima�Jo�vo�Osto�ji}.

77

Page 78: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Pa�u�za,�mo�lim�pa�u�za.�Di�̀ e�se�i�na�pu�sti�pro�sto�ri�ju.–�Mo�gu�li�ja�ne�{to�da�vas�pi�tam,�ako�ni�ste�umor�ni?–�Mo�̀ e,�go�spo�di�ne�Ur�lih.–�Za�{to�ste�vi�i�do�bro�voq�ci�i{li�da�ra�tu�je�te?–�Na�{e�po�re�klo�je�iz�tih�kra�je�va.�Zna�ju�}i�da�su�Hr�va�ti�i�mu�sli�ma�ni�ge�-

no�ci�dan�na�rod,�oti�{li�smo�sa�mo�or�ga�ni�zo�va�ni�da�po�mog�ne�mo�na�{im�ro�|a�ci�-ma.�Mo�ra�te�zna�ti,�go�spo�di�ne�Ur�lih,�da�su�1914.�go�di�ne�mu�sli�ma�ni�stra�{no�mu�-~i�li�i�ubi�ja�li�Sr�be,�isto�kao�i�1941.�go�di�ne,�a�to�su�ra�di�le�i�usta�{e�1941-1945.go�di�ne�uz�bla�go�slov�Va�ti�ka�na.�Ne�ma�srp�ske�ku�}e�u�tim�kra�je�vi�ma,�a�na�ro�~i�tood�1941.�go�di�ne�da�ne�ko�ni�je�ubi�jen�ili�za�klan.�A�mi�smo�po�tom�ci�onih�ne�do�-kla�nih.�Oti�{li�smo�da�spre�~i�mo�ge�no�cid,�da�se�ne�bi�po�no�vi�la�1941.�go�di�na.Mi�slim�da�ste�sa�tim�upo�zna�ti.

–�Je�ste�li�si�lo�va�li�i�ubi�ja�li�ci�vi�le?–�Za�bo�ga�ne.�Ka�ko�ta�ko�ne�{to�mo�̀ e�te�i�da�po�mi�sli�te,�go�spo�di�ne�Ur�lih?�–�Sa�mo�pi�tam�da�vi�dim�re�ak�ci�ju.–�Da�li�je�u�va�{im�je�di�ni�ca�ma�bi�lo�mr�tvih?�–�Je�ste,�bi�lo�je.–�Ve�li�ki�broj?–�Ne,�ali�bi�lo�je.�Me�ne�sva�ka�smrt�bo�li.�–�Sa�svim�nor�mal�no,�`ao�vam�je.�[ta�mi�sli�te�o�Ka�rayi}u�i�Mla�di�}u?�–�Pra�vi�Sr�bi.�Da�bog�da�ih�ni�ka�da�ne�pro�na�{li.�Oni�su�po�nos�sva�kog�~e�-

sti�tog�Sr�bi�na�i�srp�skog�na�ro�da,�a�ne�ove�ba�gre�i�{qa�ma�ko�ji�ne�zna�ju�ni�{tara�de.�

–�Ka�ko�mi�sli�te:�ne�zna�ju�{ta�ra�de?�–�Ta�ko�{to�ne�zna�ju.Is�tra�̀ i�teq�se�vra�tio.�O~i�gled�no�je�bi�lo�da�se�ma�lo�osve�̀ io�i�smi�rio.Obra�tio�se�Ur�li�hu.–�Vi�ste�ma�lo�raz�go�va�ra�li?�Mo�gu�li�da�za�pi�{em�o�~e�mu�ste�pri�~a�li?–�Mo�̀ e�–�O~i�gled�no�je�od�go�vo�rio�Ul�rih,�jer�je�is�tra�̀ i�teq�Pa�o�lo�ku�cao,

a�ovaj�mu�je�pri�~ao.–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�mo�̀ e�mo�na�sta�vi�ti.�Re�ci�te�mi,�da�li�ste�~lan�Srp�skog

~et�ni~�kog�po�kre�ta�~i�ji�je�osni�va~�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq?�–�Taj�po�kret�ni�je�po�sto�jao�–�od�go�vo�rio�sam�fik�si�ra�ju�}i�ga�pra�vo�u�o~i.

On�je�na�to�iz�va�dio�pr�ve�bro�je�ve�’Ve�li�ke�Sr�bi�je’�i�sta�vio�ih�is�pred�me�ne.’Ipak�su�o�sve�mu�oba�ve�{te�ni’,�po�mi�slio�sam�u�se�bi.�Ko�li�ovo�sve�do�sta�vqa�ika�kvih�li�nas�sve�ima?

–�Ka�ko�ne�ma?�Ov�de�pi�{e�da�ima?–�Ni�smo�se�do�bro�raz�u�me�li.�Ka�̀ em�da�sa�da�ne�po�sto�ji�taj�po�kret.�Po�sto�-

je�Dru�gi,�ali�to�ne�ma�ve�ze�sa�[e�{e�qem.–�Ja�sam�vas�ja�sno�pi�tao:�je�ste�li�~lan�Srp�skog�~et�ni~�kog�po�kre�ta?–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�ni�sam�~lan�nijed�nog�po�kre�ta�i�nijed�ne�stran�ke.�Bio

sam�~lan�Srp�skog�~et�ni~�kog�po�kre�ta�dok�je�po�sto�jao,�i�~lan�Srp�ske�ra�di�kal�-ne�stran�ke�do�1996.�go�di�ne.�Od�ta�da�ni�sam�ni�u�jed�noj�stran�ci�ni�ti�u�bi�lo�kompo�kre�tu.�Ne�ba�vim�se�ak�tiv�no�po�li�ti�kom,�ne�go�ona�ko�za�svo�ju�du�{u.�Ono�{tome�in�te�re�su�je�pra�tim,�{to�ne�–�ne.78

Page 79: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Za�ko�ga�gla�sa�te?–�To�ni�je�va�{a�bri�ga,�ali�ako�vas�in�te�re�su�je�–�za�Srp�sku�ra�di�kal�nu�stran�-

ku.–�Za�{to�gla�sa�te�za�wih?�Ko�li�ko�su�vam�zla�na�ne�li,�a�vi�i�da�qe�ce�ni�te�i

SRS�i�[e�{e�qa?–�Vi,�Pa�o�lo,�opet�po�~i�we�te�na�li�va�ti�vo�du�na�va�{u�vo�de�ni�cu�i�po�ku�{a�-

va�te�ne�{to�{to�je�ne�mo�gu�}e.–�Do�bro.�Po�zna�je�te�li�Acu�Ste�fa�no�vi�}a�iz�S^P�i�SRS?�Za�tim,�po�zna�-

je�te�li�Bra�ni�sla�va�Va�ki�}a?�Zna�te�li�Qu�bi�{u?�Da�li�je�to�va�{a�qu�di�na,�do�-bar�~o�vek.�U�ko�jim�su�oni�sa�da�stran�ka�ma?

–�Po�zna�jem�svu�tro�ji�cu,�a�ko�je�do�bar,�a�ko�lo{�o~i�gled�no�vi�zna�te.�Za�tonas�Sr�be�ta�ko�de�li�te.�Ja�sam,�po�va�ma,�ve�ro�vat�no�lo{�Sr�bin.�Ot�kud�ja�znam�gdeje�Qu�bi�{a?�Ni�sam�ga�~uo�ni�vi�deo�osam�go�di�na.�Bra�ni�sla�va�Ba�ki�}a,�isto,�aAcu�sam�vi�deo�na�TV-u.�On�je�sa�va�{im�pu�le�nom�Ba�ti�}em,�mi�ni�strom�prav�deSr�bi�je.�Sve�vi�to�bo�qe�zna�te,�ali�vam�tre�ba�da�ja�to�ka�̀ em,�ma�da�je�ne�ko�ve}re�kao.�Ali,�{to�je�si�gur�no,�si�gur�no.

–�Ko�je�u�to�vre�me�jo{�bio�na�~e�lu�po�kre�ta�i�stran�ke?–�Ot�kud�znam.–�Po�zna�je�te�li�Ma�ju�Goj�ko�vi}�i�Sla�vo�qu�ba�Jo�va�no�vi�}a?–�Po�zna�jem.–�Ka�kva�je�wi�ho�va�ulo�ga�bi�la�u�sve�mu�to�me?–�Ka�kve�vi�ulo�ge�ga�wa�te?�Po�zo�vite�wih,�pa�ih�pi�taj�te�za�wi�ho�ve�ulo�ge.

Ne�znam�na�ka�kve�ulo�ge�mi�sli�te.–�Mi�slim�oko�po�kre�ta�i�stran�ke?–�Pi�taj�te�wih.–�Ka�ko�ne�zna�te�ni�{ta�o�Jo�va�no�vi�}u,�a�bio�je�pred�sed�nik�okru�̀ nog�od�bo�-

ra�SRS?–�Me�ni�sad�ni�je�ja�sno�o�~e�mu�pri�~a�mo.�O�S^P�ili�SRS?�Vi�ste�to,�go�spo�-

di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�sve�iz�me�{a�li.�Ili�ima�te�na�me�ru�da�me�zbu�ni�te,�pa�da�mi�vr�{qa�-te�po�gla�vi�ka�ko�ho�}e�te.�I�ti,�i�ovaj�Ne�mac�Ur�lih.�[ta�ho�}e�te�–�pi�taj�te�kon�-kret�no.�Ne�moj�te�da�za�o�bi�la�zi�te.�Ako�sam�re�kao�da�ne�znam�{ta�je�ra�dio�Jo�va�-no�vi},�to�je�mo�je�po�sled�we,�jer�~o�ve�ka�sla�bo�i�po�zna�jem.�Ja�sam�bio�na�ra�ti�{tui�ot�kud�mo�gu�zna�ti�{ta�je�ko�ra�dio�u�Sr�bi�ji.�Va�ma�iz�gle�da�ne�{to�ni�je�do�broili�se�pra�vi�te�da�ne�~u�je�te.

–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�ne�moj�te�da�me�vre�|a�te,�jer�ja�imam�i�dru�ge�me�to�de�zaraz�go�vor�ko�je�imam�pra�vo�da�pri�me�nim,�jer�sam�do�bio�sa�gla�snost�va�{e�Vla�de.�

–�Ka�kve�su�vam�te�me�to�de?�Vo�leo�bih�zna�ti,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.�Vi�ste�za�-i�sta�bo�le�sni.�Ako�sa�da�za�}u�tim,�a�mo�̀ da�bi�mi�to�bi�lo�i�naj�bo�qe,�po�ce�nu�̀ i�-vo�ta�ne�}u�vi�{e�ni�re~�iz�u�sti�ti.�Mo�̀ e�te�me�se�}i,�o~i�va�di�ti,�ra�di�ti�{ta�ho�-}e�te,�bi�}e�vam�uza�lud.�Kad�sam�spo�me�nuo�o~i,�se�}a�te�li�se�is�po�ve�sti�jed�nog�fa�-{i�sti~�kog�ta�li�jan�skog�pu�kov�ni�ka�iz�1942.�go�di�ne�ko�ji�je�ra�to�vao�u�srp�skoj�Li�-ci.�Ka�da�su�mu�usta�{e�do�ne�le�pu�ne�kor�pe�srp�skih�o~i�ju,�on�mi�slio�da�su�o~i�-{}e�ne�{koq�ke,�a�usta�{a�mu�ka�̀ e�da�su�to�dve�hi�qa�de�srp�skih�o~i�ju�i�da�mu�topo�kla�wa�ju.�Mo�̀ da�i�vi�ima�te�na�me�ru�da�va�di�te�srp�ske�o~i,�a�bo�ga�mi�ih�ve}�po�-la�ko�~u�pa�te.�Iz�gle�da�da�ste�mno�gi�ma�i�mo�zak�po�pi�li.�

–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�mo�gu�li�da�vas�ne�{to�pi�tam?79

Page 80: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ne�ma�{ta�da�me�pi�ta�te�kad�ja�pri�~am�i�go�vo�rim�isti�nu.�Je�sam�li�ve}�jed�-nom�re�kao�da�me�ne�sme�te�pre�ki�da�ti.�Od�ovog�mo�men�ta�pro�te�stu�jem�i�}u�ta�}usat�vre�me�na.�Je�li�ti�sad�ja�sno?�

–�Ne�ne�moj�te.]u�tao�sam�ta~�no�sat�vre�me�na�po�gle�dav�{i�na�svoj�ru~�ni�~a�sov�nik.�Za�to

vre�me�oni�su�{e�ta�li�i�do�go�va�ra�li�se.�Ja�sam�ne�po�mi~�no�se�deo.–�Ta~�no�sat.–�Da,�ta~�no�sat�vre�me�na,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.�–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�ima�te�di�van�sat.�–�Imam.�Mo�̀ da�vas�za�ni�ma�ot�kud�mi?�–�Za�ni�ma�me.–�To�mi�je�po�klo�nio�Ra�do�van�Ka�rayi}�ka�da�sam�po�sled�wi�put�bio�sa�wim.�–�Ko�je�je�to�go�di�ne�bi�lo?–�1997.–�Da�li�se�sa�da�~u�je�te�sa�wim?�Po�gle�dao�sam�ga�i�od�go�vo�rio:–�Da,�mi�se�sva�ke�ve�~e�ri�sa�sta�je�mo�kod�me�ne�u�Pri�gre�vi�ci�i�po�sle�ide�mo

u�Apa�tin�da�skra�ti�mo�vre�me�i�po�je�de�mo�ri�bqu�~or�bu�i,�za�div�no�~u�do,�vas�seuop�{te�ne�pla�{i�mo.�

–�Okej,�okej!Za�tim�sam�pr�snuo�u�smeh.�Sme�jao�sam�se�u�li�ce�ve�li�kom�sud�skom�is�tra�̀ i�-

te�qu�Pa�o�lu�Pa�sto�ru�Sto�hi�ju.�On�me�je�sa�mo�po�sma�trao�i�kli�mao�gla�vom.–�Mo�gu�li�da�vi�dim�taj�sat,�da�ga�ski�ne�te�sa�ru�ke?–�Ne�mo�̀ e.–�Za�{to�ne�mo�gu?– Znam�da�bi�vi�to�za�i�sta�`e�le�li,�ali�vam�to�za�do�voq�stvo�ne�}u�pri�u�-

{ti�ti.–�Vra�ti�}u�vam�ga�od�mah.–�Ne�dam�i�–�kraj.�Ne�dam�da�mi�do�di�ru�je�te�ovu�sve�ti�wu.�Ne�mo�̀ e�i�go�to�-

vo.�Evo,�Ur�li�hu�bih�dao�da�je�tra�̀ io,�ali�po�{to�ni�je,�sa�da�ne�dam�ni�we�mu.–�Okej,�okej,�da�se�vra�ti�mo�S^P-u�i�SRS-u.�Ko�je�ste�qu�de�jo{�po�zna�va�li

iz�vr�ha?–�Je�sam�li�vam�re�kao�da�ja�ni�sam�znao�do�sta�qu�di.�Oni�su�do�la�zi�li�i�od�-

la�zi�li,�a�ja�sam�ra�to�vao.–�Zna�te�li�To�mu�Ni�ko�li�}a?–�Znam,�ako�se�ta�ko�mo�̀ e�re�}i.�On�je�do�{ao�1992.�go�di�ne,�a�ja�oti�{ao�1996.

go�di�ne.–�We�go�va�funk�ci�ja�ko�ja�je?–�Pi�taj�te�we�ga,�on�je�tu�u�Be�o�gra�du.–�Zna�te�li�Vu�~i�}a?–�Da.–�Ka�kva�je�we�go�va�ulo�ga?–�Pi�taj�te�we�ga.�I�on�je�tu,�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Ja�sam�po�o�dav�no�na�pu�stio�po�li�ti�-

ku.�Ot�kud�znam�{ta�mu�je�funk�ci�ja?�A,�iskre�no,�tre�nut�no�me�i�ne�in�te�re�su�je.–�Ima�te�li�sa�da�bi�lo�ka�kvu�ve�zu�sa�SRS?–�Ne�mam.–�Ima�mo�in�for�ma�ci�ju�da�vi�ja�ko�te�{ko�̀ i�vi�te,�ne�pla�}a�te�stru�ju,�vo�du�i

80

Page 81: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

te�le�fon.�Za�{to�vas�ne�po�mog�nu.�Vi�ste�za�wih�mno�go�u~i�ni�li.�Da�li�je�isti�-na�da�ste�Mi�ro�vi�}u�iz�SRS,�dok�je�bio�mi�ni�star,�pi�sa�li�do�pis�da�vam�po�mog�-ne�stran�ka?

–�Vi�ste,�za�i�sta,�~u�dan�~o�vek,�a�obraz�vam�je�ubi�Bo�̀ e.�Vi�za�di�re�te�u�mo�-je�po�ro�di~�ne�pro�ble�me.�Ne�znam�za�{to�to�~i�ni�te�i�to,�evo,�ve}�tre�}i�put.�Ta~�-no�je�da�ni�sam�pla�}ao�re�dov�no�ko�mu�na�li�je.�Sa�da�je�to�u�re�du.�Obra�}ao�sam�seMi�ro�vi�}u�kao�mi�ni�stru,�ali�ne�za�to�{to�je�iz�SRS.�I�ni�je�ni�{ta�u~i�nio.�Dali�je�po�ku�{ao�–�ne�znam.�Ali�{to�to�vas�to�li�ko�mu�~i�i�upor�no�ho�}e�te�ne�{toti�me�da�po�stig�ne�te.�Sa�mo,�ne�}e�to�kod�me�ne�pro�}i,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.

–�Ko�je�su�vas�fir�me�auto�bu�si�ma�vo�zi�le�na�front?�Je�su�li�tu�ima�li�ude�laso�ci�ja�li�sti�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a?

–�Je�smo�li�to�ve}�jed�nom�raz�re�{i�li?–�Ne,�ni�smo,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.�Od�go�vo�ri�te�na�pi�ta�we.�Do�sta�vas�slu�{am

ceo�dan.–�Ni�su.–�Ka�ko�ni�su,�ka�da�mi�zna�mo�da�je�su.�Vi�nas�ob�ma�wu�je�te,�va�ra�te�nas,�a�za�to

mo�̀ e�te�odav�de�pra�vo�u�Hag.–�Ko�mo�̀ e�odav�de�u�Hag?�Vi�i�mo�ja�ze�mqa�ga�ran�to�va�li�ste�mi�slo�bo�du�a

sa�da�mi�ov�de�pre�ti�te.�Ne�mo�gu�da�go�vo�rim�ono�{to�se�va�ma�svi�|a�i�do�pa�da,�ne�-go�mo�gu�da�go�vo�rim�isti�nu�i�ono�{to�znam�i�{to�smem�da�ka�̀ em�a�da�ni�je�voj�-na�i�dr�̀ av�na�taj�na.

–�Ni�su�auto�bu�si�dr�̀ av�na�taj�na.�Ka�ko�se�zo�vu�fir�me,�vla�sni�ci�auto�bu�sa?–�Evo�jed�ne:�’Se�ver�trans’�–�Som�bor,�i�sku�po�su�nam�na�pla�}i�va�li.–�I�ni�jed�na�vi�{e?–�Ime�na�dru�gih�pred�u�ze�}a�sam�stvar�no�po�za�bo�ra�vqao.–�Ko�je�an�ga�̀ o�vao�te�auto�bu�se?–�Po�za�di�na�Srp�skog�do�bro�vo�qa~�kog�po�kre�ta.�Oni�su�pri�ku�pqa�li�i�sred�-

stva�za�pla�}a�we�auto�bu�sa.–�Ka�kav�je�tu�bio�uti�caj�SRS�i�SPS?–�Zva�ni~�no�ni�ka�kav.�Re�kao�sam�vam�da�je�to�sve�i{lo�na�do�bro�voq�noj�ba�-

zi,�pri�mo�ra�va�wa�ni�je�bi�lo.�Ka�ko�ko�na~�no�ne�mo�̀ e�te�da�shva�ti�te�da�je�na�{epo�re�klo�iz�tih�ra�tom�za�hva�}e�nih�pod�ru~�ja?�I�svi�smo�se�an�ga�̀ o�va�li�da�spa�-se�mo�na�rod�da�ga�usta�{e�i�mu�sli�ma�ni�ne�po�ko�qu.�Sve�vi�to�zna�te,�sa�mo�ne�}e�teda�zna�te.�Ovaj�rat�je�va{,�ovo�kr�vo�pro�li�}e�je�va�{e,�vas�i�va�{eg�ka�to�li�~an�stvana�~e�lu�sa�Va�ti�ka�nom.�To�ni�je�pr�vi�rat�ko�ji�ste�na�met�nu�li�pra�vo�slav�nim�Sr�-bi�ma�po�~ev�jo{�od�1389.�go�di�ne�pa�naova�mo.�La�ti�ni�ste�vi,�zli�i�po�kva�re�ni;ubi�ja�te,�si�lu�je�te,�po�kr�{ta�va�te,�uni�{ta�va�te�i�za�ti�re�te�srp�ski�na�rod.�A�sadme�ne�ov�de�si�lu�je�te,�evo�ve}�je�23�~a�sa.�^e�ka�te�da�se�za�mo�rim�ne�bi�li�ne�{toslu�~aj�no�po�gre�{io,�pa�da�uve�de�te�u�taj�va{�za�pi�snik.�

–�Sum�wa�te�u�mo�ju�iskre�nost,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u?–�Da,�sum�wam.�Vi�ni�ste�is�kre�ni.�U�va�ma�le�̀ i�go�mi�la�zla�i�pre�fri�ga�no�-

sti,�mr�̀ we�i�ne�~o�ve~�no�sti.–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�ja�sa�mo�ra�dim�po�sao�za�ko�ji�sam�pla�}en.–�Ko�vam�bra�ni?�Ra�di�i�da�qe,�i�ubi�jaj�te�i�da�qe,�pa�po�sle�tra�̀ i�te�kriv�ca,

a�kri�vac�se�zna,�je�li�ta�ko�Ur�lih?�Vi�di�ka�ko�on�mir�no�se�di�i�}u�ti.–�Ta�kav�je�we�gov�po�sao�i�za�da�tak�u�ovom�va�{em�slu�~a�ju,�a�ova�le�pa�pre�vo�-

di�teq�ka,�kao�{to�vi�di�te,�ve�o�ma�uspe�{no�sve�pre�vo�di�i�ona�je�go�vor�na�ba�za�iz�-81

Page 82: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

me�|u�nas.–�Do�bro,�raz�u�meo�sam�vas.�Ne�mo�ra�te�ba{�to�li�ko�da�se�tru�di�te.–�Su�tra�na�sta�vqa�mo,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.�Vi�}e�te�sa�mnom�da�vam�po�ka�̀ em

ku�}u�gde�}e�te�no�}i�ti.Od�veo�me�je�u�jed�nu�su�sed�nu�ku�}u�ko�ju�o~i�gled�no�ko�ri�ste�za�ova�kve�slu�~a�-

je�ve.�Do�ma�}i�ca�me�je�le�po�pri�mi�la.�Bi�la�je�sa�ma�sa�si�nom,�mu �̀joj�je�umro,�ka�-ko�mi�ob�ja�sni,�a�ona�ra�di�kao�me�di�cin�ska�se�stra.�Pri�pre�mi�la�mi�je�ve�~e�ru,�iz�-me�ni�li�smo�par�re�~i�onih�obi~�nih,�po�ro�di~�nih.�Za�tim�mi�po�ka�za�la�so�bu�gde}u�da�spa�vam,�ku�pa�ti�lo,�me�sto�za�obu�}u,�odvo�ji�la�mi�je�pe�{ki�re.�Le�gao�sam�uve�o�ma�udo�ban�le�̀ aj�i�od�mah�za�spao.

20. septembar 2002. go di neIs�pi�ti�va�we�je�po�~e�lo�u�ta~�no�za�ka�za�no�vre�me,�u�9�~a�so�va.–�Je�ste�se�na�spa�va�li?–�Je�sam.–�Ja�ba{�ni�sam.–�Pe�~e�vas�sa�vest,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�za�ovo�{to�ova�ko�ra�di�te.–�Gde�ste�sve�ra�to�va�li?�Mo�̀ e�to�pi�ta�we?–�Mo�̀ e.�Ra�to�vao�sam�u�Sla�vo�ni�ji,�Ba�ra�wi,�Za�pad�nom�Sre�mu�i�Za�pad�noj

Sla�vo�ni�ji,�Li�ci,�Kor�du�nu,�Ba�ni�ji,�Dal�ma�ci�ji�i�Srp�skoj�Re�pu�bli�ci,�a�i�sa�dara�tu�jem.

–�Gde�sa�da�ra�tu�je�te?–�Ov�de.�I�ovog�tre�na�bo�rim�se�za�isti�nu.–�Je�li�bi�lo�ge�no�ci�da?�–�Ka�kvog�ge�no�di�da?–�Da�ste�ubi�ja�li�ci�vi�le,�voj�ne�za�ro�bqe�ni�ke�itd.–�To�se�za�si�gur�no�ni�je�de�si�lo�ni�ti�se�mo�glo�de�si�ti.�Bio�sam�pro�tiv�to�ga

i�po�{to�vao�sam�svoj�li~�ni�ko�deks�po�na�{a�wa,�a�od�me�ne�su�to�pri�hva�ti�li�svido�bro�voq�ci.�[ta�vi�mi�sli�te,�da�smo�mi�i{li�da�ubi�ja�mo�i�ko�qe�mo�dru�gi�na�-rod?�Ko�li�ko�pu�ta�tre�ba�da�vam�ka�̀ em�da�to�ni�je�ta~�no?�

–�Ko�li�ko�je�vas�pro�gla�{e�no�srp�skim�~et�ni~�kim�voj�vo�da�ma?�–�Ne�znam.�–�Ka�ko�ne�zna�te�ko�li�ko�vas�je�bi�lo�u�ma�na�sti�ru�’Kne�̀ i�na’?�Za�tim�iz�va�di�iz�fi�jo�ke�ka�se�tu�sa�sni�mqe�nim�pro�gla�{e�wem�voj�vo�da.–�[ta�me�pi�ta�te,�kad�zna�te?�Ne�ko�je�bio�do�bar,�pa�vam�dao�ka�se�tu.�Us�put,

da�vam�ka�̀ em:�ja�li~�no�te�ka�se�te�ne�mam.�Ho�}e�te�bi�ti�do�bri�da�mi�je�da�te�da�jepre�sni�mim?

–�Ne,�to�ne.�Ni�ka�ko.�Ima�mo�ne�{to�dru�go�da�vam�po�klo�ni�mo.�Evo,�iz�vo�li�-te�–�i�da�de�mi�kom�plet�nu�op�tu�̀ ni�cu�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�–�Eto,�je�smoli�sa�da�pri�ja�te�qi?�

–�Ne,�mi�to�ne�mo�̀ e�mo�bi�ti�ni�kad.�–�Da�li�je,�mi�ster�Osto�ji},�Sr�bi�ja�da�va�la�oru �̀je�Sr�bi�ma�u�Srp�skoj�Re�pu�-

bli�ci�i�Srp�skoj�Kra�ji�ni?–�U�mo�je�zna�we�–�ni�je.�I�ot�kud�ja�ta�kve�stva�ri�mo�gu�zna�ti?�Ni�sam�ja�pred�-

sed�nik�dr�̀ a�ve.–�A�je�li�vam�po�znat�Bu�baw�po�tok?–�Ne.

82

Page 83: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ka�ko�ne?�Evo,�vi�di�te�{ta�ov�de�na�ovom�do�ku�men�tu�pi�{e.–�Ne�in�te�re�su�je�me.–�Zna�~i�odjed�nom�vas�ni�{ta�ne�in�te�re�su�je.�Je�su�li�se�do�bro�voq�ci�na�o�ru�-

`a�va�li�u�Bu�baw�po�to�ku?–�Mo�̀ da�je�su,�mo�̀ da�ni�su.�Ot�kud�ja�to�mo�gu�zna�ti?–�Do�bro,�da�se�vra�ti�mo�na�pro�gla�{e�we�voj�vo�da.�Ka�̀ e�te�da�ne�zna�te�ko�li�-

ko�je�pro�gla�{e�no.–�Ne,�ne�znam,�a�i�dav�no�je�to�bi�lo.�Je�li�ta�ko?–�Da�ta�ko�je.–�Pa�po�va�{em�ko�li�ko?–�[est�do�de�set,�ali�ne�vi�{e.–�Vi�ste�to�skroz�za�bo�ra�vi�li?–�To�i�ja�tvr�dim.–�Je�li�ta�da�pro�gla�{en�voj�vo�dom�To�ma�Ni�ko�li}?–�Mi�slim�da�je�ste,�ali�ve�ruj�te,�ja�to�za�i�sta�ne�znam.–�Na�broj�te�ko�ga�zna�te.–�Ne�}u,�ima�te�ka�se�tu.Pa�o�lo�po�~e�sam�da�na�bra�ja�ime�na�voj�vo�da,�pa�me�za�pi�ta:–�Je�su�li�pro�gla�{e�ni�ili�ni�su?–�Ne�ke�od�tih�znam,�ne�ke�ne�znam.–�Je�li�ti�i{ta�go�vo�ri�ime�Zo�ra�na�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi�}a�-�^i�~e?–�Ne�go�vo�ri�mi�ni�{ta.–�Pa�je�li�on�pro�gla�{en�voj�vo�dom�i�da�li�je�bio�ko�man�dant�~et�ni~�kog

{ta�ba�u�Be�o�gra�du�sa�iz�ve�snom�Du�{i�com,�ko�ju�su�svo�je�vre�me�no�bi�le�uhva�ti�leusta�{e?

–�To�ne�znam.–�Zna�te�li�Du�{i�cu?–�Da,�znam.�I�bi�le�su�je�uhva�ti�le�usta�{e.�Gde�i�ka�ko�–�ne�znam.�To�pi�taj�te

wu,�a�ne�me�ne.–�Zna�te�li�gde�Du�{i�ca�`i�vi�u�Be�o�gra�du?–�Ne.–�Da�li�je�[e�{eq�bio�na�fron�tu�i�ra�to�vao?�–�Ni�je.–�Da�li�ste�kon�tak�ti�ra�li�sa�[e�{e�qem?–�Je�sam,�ali�ve�o�ma�ret�ko.�Pre�te�̀ no�kad�sam�do�la�zio�u�Be�o�grad.–�O�~e�mu�ste�naj�vi�{e�raz�go�va�ra�li?–�[ta�vas�to�in�te�re�su�je?�Ne�}u�na�to�da�od�go�vo�rim.�Opet�ste�ma�lo�bez�o�-

bra�zni.–�Ne�moj�te�da�vre�|a�te.–�Ne�moj�te�vi�da�vre�|a�te�me�ne.�[ta�je�vas�bri�ga�{ta�sam�ja�sa�wim�raz�go�-

va�rao?�Uosta�lom,�re�}i�}u�vam.�Pri�~a�li�smo�o�`e�na�ma.–�Okej,�okej.�Vi�ste,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�ve�o�ma�lu�ka�vi�i�sna�la�̀ qi�vi.�I�po�-

ne�kad�du�ho�vi�ti.–�Va�{e�mi�{qe�we�za�dr�̀ i�te�za�se�be,�jer�me�za�i�sta�ne�in�te�re�su�je.–�Ka�da�ste�od�la�zi�li�na�front,�je�ste�li�sa�mi�pre�u�zi�ma�li�ko�man�du?

83

Page 84: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ne,�ni�smo�mi�bi�li�pa�ra�voj�ska.–�A�{ta�ste�bi�li?–�Bi�li�smo�re�dov�na�voj�ska,�jer�smo�se�sta�vqa�li�pod�ko�mad�nu�sta�re�{i�na

Voj�ske�Re�pu�bli�ke�Srp�ske�i,�dok�je�po�sto�ja�la�Kra�ji�na,�pod�ko�man�du�Voj�ske�Re�-pu�bli�ke�Srp�ske�Kra�ji�ne.�Pa�ra�voj�ska�ni�smo�ni�kad�bi�li.

–�Da�li�ste�se�~u�li�ne�kad�sa�fron�ta�sa�[e�{e�qem?�Na�pri�mer,�tre�ba�jo{do�bro�vo�qa�ca,�vi�na�zo�ve�te,�on�sa�ku�pi�do�bro�voq�ce�i�po�{a�qe�ih�kod�vas�nafront.

–�Sa�mo�jed�nom�smo�se�~u�li�di�rekt�no�sa�fron�ta.–�Je�ste�li�tra�̀ i�li�do�bro�voq�ce�od�we�ga�da�vam�ih�po�{a�qe?–�Ka�ko�mi�sli�te�po�{a�qe?�Ni�su�to�pi�sma�da�ih�{a�qe.�Tra�̀ io�sam�do�bro�-

voq�ce,�ali�ih�ni�je�po�slao.�Re�kao�mi�je�da�to�ne�ra�di.–�Ka�ko�ne�ra�di?–�Ta�ko�mi�je�od�go�vo�rio.�Pa�ni�su�do�bro�voq�ci�oka�~e�ni�na�dr�vo�da�ih�po�ku�-

pi�te,�sta�vi�te�u�ko�fer�i�po�{a�qe�te.�Raz�u�me�te�li?�Na�fron�tu,�ka�da�za�tre�baqud�stvo,�ono�tre�ba�od�mah,�a�ne�za�me�sec�da�na�ka�da�ofan�zi�va�pro�|e,�ta�ko�da�ontu�ni�je�ni�mo�gao�da�po�mog�ne�ni�po�red�naj�bo�qe�vo�qe.�Po�sto�ja�li�su�do�bro�vo�-qa~�ki�{ta�bo�vi�ko�ji�su�or�ga�ni�zo�va�li�do�bro�voq�ce.�To�su�bi�li�obi~�ni�qu�di,�ane�oni�na�ko�je�vi�ti�pu�je�te.�O~i�gled�no�vi�ne�mo�̀ e�te�ne�ke�stva�ri�da�pri�hva�ti�-te.�Vi�ne�`e�li�te�da�to�ide�dru�ga�~i�je,�od�no�sno�da�je�bi�lo�dru�ga�~i�je.

–�Da�li�je�[e�{eq�obi�la�zio�front�gde�su�bi�li�do�bro�voq�ci?–�Po�ne�kad�je�ste,�to�sam�pro�~i�tao�u�no�vi�na�ma.�U�istim�iz�ko�jih�vi�to�tre�-

nut�no�~i�ta�te.–�Da�li�je�ta~�no�da�vas�na�fron�tu�ni�je�ni�kad�ob�i�{ao?–�Od�kud�vi�to�zna�te?–�Je�li�to�isti�na?–�Da,�isti�na�je.–�Ka�ko�to�–�mno�ge�je�ob�i�{ao,�vas�ni�je?–�To�pi�taj�te�we�ga.�Ja�ga�to�ni�ka�da�ni�sam�pi�tao.–�Mi�smo�~u�li�da�ste�vi�uvek�bi�li�gde�je�naj�̀ e�{}e.�Mo�̀ da�za�to�ni�je�do�-

la�zio?–�To�me�ne�in�te�re�su�je.�Sa�mo�znam�da�ni�kad�ni�je�do�la�zio.–�Oda�kle�su�sve�do�la�zi�li�do�bro�voq�ci�kod�vas?–�Iz�ce�le�Sr�bi�je�i�Cr�ne�Go�re.–�Je�li�bi�lo�Ru�sa?–�Mi�sli�te�iz�Ru�si�je?–�Da.–�Ni�je�bi�lo.–�Mi�zna�mo�da�je�bi�lo.–�Ka�̀ em:�ni�je�bio�ni�ti�je�dan.�Kad�ja�ka�̀ em�da�ni�je,�on�da�ni�je.�Je�l’�vam�to

ja�sno?�I�ne�moj�da�mi�pod�va�qu�je�te.–�Je�li�bi�lo�SPS-ova�ca�u�do�bro�voq�ci�ma�ili�Be�lih�or�lo�va?–�Ot�kud�ja�mo�gu�zna�ti�ko�ko�joj�stran�ci�pri�pa�da�u�do�bro�voq�ci�ma?�Bi�la�je

slo�ga�i�ni�smo�se�de�li�li�po�stra�na~�koj�pri�pad�no�sti,�a�svi�smo�no�si�li�ko�kar�-de,�ozna�ke�sta�re�kra�qev�ske�voj�ske.�Ta�ko�da�mo�gu�re�}i�da�je�mo�̀ da�ne�ko�i�bio,84

Page 85: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

ali�ja�to�ne�znam.–�Po�va�ma,�[e�{eq�i�Mi�lo�{e�vi}�ne�ma�ju�ve�ze�sa�pro�{lim�ra�tom?–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�ja�to�ni�sam�re�kao,�a�sve�{to�vas�in�te�re�su�je�u�ve�zi�wih,

wih�i�pi�taj�te.�Po�tra�̀ i�te�ov�de�one�ko�ji�vo�le�no�vac,�ta�kvih�po�put�vas,�pa�}ere�}i�i�da�mu�otac�ni�je�otac.

–�Jo{�ni�ste�ni�re�kli�da�ste�~et�ni~�ki�voj�vo�da.�U�stva�ri,�ni�ste�pri�zna�li?–�Ja�se�po�no�sim�tim�zva�wem�i�dra�go�mi�je�da�sam�to.–�Ka�ko�se�do�bi�ja�to�zva�we?–�Mo�ra�te�bi�ti�spo�sob�ni�da�or�ga�ni�zu�je�te�na�rod,�da�se�is�ti�~e�te�kao�rat�nik,

da�ste�do�bar�rat�ni�stra�teg�i,�na�kra�ju,�da�ste�sprem�ni�da�po�lo�̀ i�te�̀ i�vot,�akoto�od�vas�Otaybi�na�tra�̀ i.�Eto,�sa�mo�to�li�ko.

–� Da� li� bi�ste� vi� da�li� `i�vot,� mi�ster� Osto�ji�}u,� za� srp�ski� na�rod� iOtaybi�nu?

–�Da,�dao�bih�ga�bez�raz�mi�{qa�wa.�Mo�gu�li�sa�mo�ja�vas�ne�{to�da�upi�tam?Vo�li�te�li�vi�Ita�li�ju?

–�Vo�lim,�mno�go�je�vo�lim.–�E,�pa�vi�di�te,�ja�isto�ta�ko�vo�lim�Sr�bi�ju.�I�da�le�ko�je�vi�{e�vo�lim�ne�go�vi

Ita�li�ju.�Mo�ja�ze�mqa�i�moj�na�rod�uvek�se�bo�ri�za�op�sta�nak,�jer�je�na�pa�da�ju�ta�-kvi�kao�{to�ste�vi.�Iz�va�{e�Ita�li�je�do�le�ta�li�su�avi�o�ni�NA�TO-a�i�bom�bar�-do�va�li�mo�ju�Sr�bi�ju.�Iz�Sr�bi�je�ni�ka�da�avi�o�ni�ne�}e�po�le�te�ti�da�bom�bar�du�juIta�li�ju�ili�bi�lo�ne�ku�dru�gu�ze�mqu�na�sve�tu.

–�[ta�sve�ko�kar�da�ima�na�se�bi?–�Ka�ko�{ta�ima?–�Iz�~e�ga�se�sa�sto�ji?–�Ima�kru�nu,�{tit�sa�~e�ti�ri�oci�la�i�kr�stom�ko�ji�se�na�la�ze�na�dvo�gla�vom

be�lom�or�lu,�ma�~e�ve�ukr�{te�ne�i�mr�tva~�ku�gla�vu.�Sa�da�je�to�ma�lo�iz�me�we�no�alito�je�u�su�{ti�ni�to.

–�Za�{to�mr�tva~�ka�gla�va?–�Po�ve�ro�va�wu,�da�za�{ti�ti�na�rod�od�zla,�ku�ge�i�pro�du�̀ i�`i�vot.�Ona�se

na�la�zi�na�pla�{tu�sve�ti�teq�ke�Pa�ra�ske�ve,�ali�i�mno�gih�pra�vo�slav�nih�sve�ti�te�-qa,�a�ujed�no�ozna�~a�va�bor�bu�od�smr�ti�ili�po�be�du�nad�wom,�eto�ot�pri�li�ke�to�jeto.

–�Zar�to�ne�zna�~i�ubij?–�Za�vas�kod�Sr�ba�sve�zna�~i�ubij.�Ako�vi�ta�ko�mi�sli�te,�ne�ka�vam�bu�de.�Ali,

to�ni�je�ta~�no.�Sve�ste�po�gre�{no�na�u�~i�li.�To�zna�~i:�ne�bo�jim�se�smr�ti.–�Je�li�Mi�lo�{e�vi}�slao�oru �̀je�za�Kra�ji�nu�i�Srp�sku�Re�pu�bli�ku�pre�ko�vas

do�bro�vo�qa�ca,�a�uz�sa�gla�snost�[e�{e�qa?–�Pr�vi�put�ta�ko�ne�{to�~u�jem.–�Ima�mo�in�for�ma�ci�ju,�kao�{to�sam�po�me�nuo,�da�ste�se�na�o�ru�̀ a�va�li�u�Bu�-

baw�Po�to�ku�i�ta�ko�pre�no�si�li�oru �̀je�u�Re�pu�bli�ku�Srp�sku.–�Da,�to�je�bi�lo�sa�mo�jed�nom.�Ina�~e�smo�oru �̀je�do�bi�ja�li�na�li�cu�me�sta.

Ta�ko�smo�uze�li�oru �̀je�ka�da�je�na�pad�nu�ta�Kra�ji�na�1993.�go�di�ne�u�ja�nu�a�ru�me�se�-cu�od�stra�ne�usta�{a.�–�’Bo�̀ e,�ka�ko�su�do�sve�ga�ovo�ga�do�{li?’,�mi�slio�sam.�Raz�-o�~a�rao�sam�se.�Zar�po�sto�je�ta�kvi�qu�di�da�sve�iz�re�ci�tu�ju?

–�Va�ma�je�Voj�ska�Ju�go�sla�vi�je�da�la�~in�ma�jo�ra?85

Page 86: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Da,�je�ste.�Ot�kud�zna�te?–�Sve�mi�zna�mo.�Vas�sa�mo�pro�ve�ra�va�mo.–�Pro�ve�ra�vaj�te�kog�mo�̀ e�te.–�Je�ste�li�bi�li�upo�zna�ti�sa�[e�{e�qe�vim�kre�ta�wem?–�Ne.–�Da�li�je�bio�u�Vo�}i�nu�i�Po�drav�skoj�Sla�ti�ni?–�Mi�slim�da�ni�je,�ali�ni�sam�si�gu�ran.�Pre�bih�re�kao�da�ni�je.�Ne�znam�ta~�-

no.�Ne�vo�lim�da�ka�̀ em�ono�{to�ne�znam�i�ne�in�te�re�su�je�me�da�li�je�bio�ili�ni�-je.

–�Po�ku�{aj�te�da�se�se�ti�te.�To�je�1992.�go�di�na.–�Ne�znam.�Mo�̀ da�i�je�ste,�ali�u�mo�je�zna�we�ni�je.–�Pri�se�ti�te�se.–�Ne�znam,�~o�ve�~e!�Ka�ko�da�se�se�tim�kad�ne�znam?–�Je�li�bi�lo�ta�mo�do�bro�vo�qa�ca?–�Bi�lo�je,�bar�ta�ko�mi�slim.�Ali�ih�mo�̀ da�i�ni�je�bi�lo.�Ne�znam.–�Ko�je�Oli�ver?–�Oli�ver�je�srp�ski�~et�ni~�ki�voj�vo�da,�po�gi�nuo�u�Be�o�gra�du.–�Je�li�on�ta�mo�bio�ko�man�dant?–�[ta�vam�to�sa�da�zna�~i�ka�da�je�mr�tav?–�Ta�mo�je�iz�vr�{en�zlo�~in.�Po�bi�je�ni�su�Hr�va�ti�ci�vi�li,�iz�vr�{en�je�ma�-

sa�kr?–�Ja�o�to�me,�za�i�sta,�ne�znam�ni�{ta.–�Bo�qe�za�vas�da�pri�zna�te.–�[ta�da�pri�znam?–�Da�je�ta�mo�li~�no�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�ubio�7-17�ne�vi�nih�Hr�va�ta.�Ta�ko�ste

re�kli�da�je�to�li�ko�ubio.–�Ko�je�to�re�kao?–�Vi,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.–�Ja�to�re�kao?–�Da,�li~�no�vi.–�Maj�ke�ti�ta�li�jan�ske,�ka�da?–�Ju�~e.–�A�ti�upi�sa�da�nas.–�Da�ba{�ta�ko.–�Ma�~uj,�de,�is�tra�̀ i�te�qu�iz�Ha�ga�i�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la:�bri�{i�to�od�ma’,

sto�ko�jed�na,�go�ve�do�dvo�no�go...!�Ko�ga�ti�to�pra�vi{�lu�dim?�Ko�zna�{ta�si�jo{�tina�pi�sao�u�do�go�vo�ru�sa�ovim�[va�bom�Ur�li�hom?!�Bri�{i�to,�`a�ba�ru.�Ma�~u�je{li�ti�me�ne�{ta�ja�go�vo�rim?�Ko�je�po�bio�qu�de?�Pa�Vo�jo�ne�ma�za�to�pe�tqe,�to�jepr�va�stvar,�a�dru�ga�on�to�ni�ka�da�ne�bi�u~i�nio,�sram�te�bi�lo,�idi�o�te!�Zar�si�za�-to�ova�mo�do�{ao?�Tra�̀ i{�da�la �̀bu�de�isti�na.�Ako�je�ne�ko�iz�vr�{io�zlo�~in,tre�ba�ga�su�di�ti,�ali�pro�gla�{a�va�ti�ne�vi�ne�za�zlo�~in�ce�–�to�je�za�sva�ku�osu�du.Zlo�~in�je�to�{to�ste�vi�sa�da�hte�li�da�ura�di�te!�Za�to�vas�tre�ba�su�di�ti!

–�Smi�ri�te�se,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.–�[ta�ti�me�ni�smi�ri�se?!�Ku�pu�je�te�la�̀ i�za�no�vac.�Pa�ne�}e�te�vaq�da�na

taj�na�~in�da�osu�di�te�[e�{e�qa?�Da�bog�da�se�za�tr�lo�sva�kom�se�me�i�po�ro�di�caako�iko�ova�kvu�la`�ove�ri,�ako�iko�ova�ko�ne�{to�ura�di!�Da�bog�da�mu�se�se�me86

Page 87: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

za�tr�lo!–�Smi�ri�te�se,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.–�Ti�da�}u�ti{,�je�li�ti�ja�sno?!�Sad,�sad�bih�ti�za�le�pio�iza�u{i�ju�da�se�sav

za�pi�{a{�i�une�re�di{.�[ta�je�te�bi?�Je�si�li�nor�ma�lan?�Je�si�li�po�lu�deo?�Pa�tosa�mo�lu�di�ra�de.�Ne�bi�ra{�sred�stva,�ta�ko�da�je{�no�vac.�Ja�te�{ko�̀ i�vim,�ali�mitaj�tvoj�no�vac�ne�tre�ba.�To�je�kr�vav�no�vac�pre�pun�ne�vi�ne�srp�ske�kr�vi.�Za�we�gase�sa�mo�smrt�mo�̀ e�ku�pi�ti.

–�Smi�ri�te�se,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.�Po�zva�}u�obez�be�|e�we.–�Zo�vi!�Da�vi�di{�ka�ko�[e�{e�qev�voj�vo�da�gi�ne!�Zo�vi!�–�vi�kao�sam�da�se

zgra�da�tre�sla.�Obez�be�|e�we�se�po�ja�vi�na�vra�ti�ma.�–�Ka�̀ i,�lo�po�ve,�da�odu,�jer�}e�bi�ti�sva�{ta.�Re�ci�im�da�od�la�ze.Naj�zad�je�re�kao�da�odu,�jer�}e�sve�bi�ti�u�re�du.–�Pa�u�za.–�Slu�{aj:�ne�ma�pa�u�ze!�Kraj�je�raz�go�vo�ra�za�da�nas.�Ja�od�ovog�mo�men�ta�do�su�-

tra�ne�}u�da�pro�go�vo�rim�ni�re�~i.�Sram�vas�bi�lo,�ako�uop�{te�zna�te�za�sram.�Vida�ta�ko�pri�~a�te�o�jed�nom�srp�skom�in�te�lek�tu�al�cu,�pro�fe�so�ru�i�dok�to�ru�na�u�ka.Ga�di�te�mi�se.�Ovo�{to�vi�ra�di�te�to�je�blam�za�~i�ta�vo�~o�ve�~an�stvo.�Ti�si�Ha�-{kog�tri�bu�na�la�is�tra�̀ i�teq...�Tu�ge�i�`a�lo�sti.

–�Mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u!–�Ne�zo�vi�me�vi�{e�ta�ko,�~u�je{�li?�Ja�sam�za�te�be�srp�ski�~et�ni~�ki�voj�vo�-

da.�Ko�zna�{ta�si�sve�tu�na�pi�sao�u�mo�je�ime.�Ja�go�vo�rim�otvo�re�no�i�ne�mam�~e�-ga�da�se�sti�dim,�a�ti�si�do�{ao�ova�mo�na�osno�vu�pri�~e�da�ja�ne�pod�no�sim�SRS�iVo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa.�E,�pa�ne�}e�mo�}i.�Ja�sam�oti�{ao�iz�SRS,�ali�i�da�qe�za�wugla�sam,�a�{ta�u�stran�ci�mi�sle�o�me�ni�i�ja�o�wi�ma,�tu�ti�ne�mo�̀ e{�da�gu�ra{svoj�nos�i�da�pa�la�ca{�zmij�skim�je�zi�kom,�pa�da�iza�be�re{�gde�}e{�otrov�is�pu�-sti�ti.�Pa�o�lo,�je�ste�li�vi�sve�sni�{ta�ra�di�te?�Ja�}u�ovo�da�ob�ja�vim�i�da�na�pi�-{em�ka�ko�te�ra�te�po�ten�ci�jal�ne�sve�do�ke�da�la�̀ u.�

–�Smi�ri�te�se,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.�Ma,�je�sam�li�ti�re�kao�da�me�vi�{e�ne�oslo�-vqa�va{�ta�ko,�a�ti�po�no�vo.�

–�Mi�te�be�mo�̀ e�mo�sad�da�za�tvo�ri�mo.�–�Ne�mo�̀ e�te,�ovo�je�mo�ja�ze�mqa.�–�Ne�shva�ta�te.�Ovo�ni�je�va�{a�ze�mqa.�Ovo�je�zgra�da�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�i

ona�pri�pa�da�UN.�Bo�qe�re�}i,�ovo�je�deo�Ho�lan�di�je.�–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�vi�ste�na�~i�sto�bo�le�sni�i�jed�na�obi~�na...�–�Da�na�sta�vi�mo�raz�go�vor,�Osto�ji�}u?–�Zna�te�li�vi�ko�li�ko�je�sa�ti,�a�mr�cva�ri�te�me�ceo�dan�sa�~i�stim�la�̀ i�ma�i

ko�je�ka�kvim�pi�ta�wi�ma.�Sad�je�23�~a�sa.�Ja�odoh�da�spa�vam,�ako�bu�dem�mo�gao,�a�vina�sta�vi�te�is�pi�ti�va�ti�Ur�li�ha.

Ot�pra�ti�li�su�me�do�sta�na.�Bio�sam�umo�ran�kao�ni�kad�u�`i�vo�tu�i�skr�hando�bo�la.�Ceo�moj�̀ i�vot�mi�se�u�gla�vi�vr�teo�kao�na�tra�ci.�Se�tio�sam�se�sve�ga�–od�de�tiw�stva,�pa�sve�do�da�na�{weg�da�na.�Ga�zda�ri�ca�Smi�qa�me�upi�ta:

–�[ta�vam�je?�Ta�ko�ste�ble�di�kao�da�ne�ma�te�ni�kap�kr�vi�u�se�bi.�Br�zo�je�si�-na�po�sla�la�u�we�go�vu�so�bu.

–�Ma�ni�je�mi�ni�{ta.�Sa�tra�me�ova�ban�da�lo�po�va�i�la�̀ o�va.�[qam�be�lo�-svet�ski�su�di�~a�snim�qu�di�ma.�Jo{�}e�ce�lu�ze�mqu�Sr�bi�ju�da�op�tu�̀ e.

–�Ve�~e�ra�vam�je�go�to�va.87

Page 88: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Hva�la,�ne�mo�gu.�Jeo�sam�da�nas�za�na�red�nih�de�set�go�di�na.–�Je�ste�li�za�pi�vo?–�Ne,�ni�sam�za�pi�vo.�Zna�te,�ja�znam�da�vi�sa�tim�ne�ma�te�ve�ze.�Mo�gu�~a�{u

vo�de�hlad�ne�ako�ima�te.�Ovi�ni�vo�du�ne�nu�de.�–�Imam,�evo�iz�vo�li�te.–�Mo�lim�vas,�go�spo�|o,�ja�bih�se�is�tu�{i�rao,�pa�da�se�po�vu�~em�u�svo�ju�so�bu,

da�vas�oslo�bo�dim.–�U�re�du,�kre�vet�vam�je�na�me�{ten.�La�ka�vam�no},�go�spo�di�ne�Jo�vo,�i�ne�ka

vam�Bog�bu�de�u�po�mo�}i.–�Ve�ru�jem�u�Bo�ga,�u�se�be�i�svo�ju�po�ro�di�cu.�I�u�su�tra.�Bo�qe�su�tra.�Da�ovi

ga�do�vi�ne�}e�vr�{qa�ti�po�Sr�bi�ji,�od�vo�di�ti�qu�de�i�su�di�ti�im�ka�ko�im�se�proh�-te,�a�mi,�mal�te�ne,�da�im�se�za�hva�qu�je�mo�za�to�op�tu�̀ u�ju�}i�sa�mi�se�be.

No}�du�ga�kao�go�di�na.�Ne�mo�gu�da�za�spim.�Hi�qa�du�za�{to�mo�ta�mi�se�krozgla�vu.�Zar�je�mo�gu�}e�da�ni�svoj�na�rod�ne�smem�da�bra�nim�od�ko�qa�~a�i�ubi�ca.Sre�}om,�ni�je�se�po�no�vi�la�1941.�go�di�na.�[e�tao�sam�se�po�so�bi�kao�lud.�Pro�stoni�sam�ve�ro�vao�{ta�se�to�do�ga�|a�sa�mnom�i�oko�me�ne.�Sa�mo�jed�nom�po�gre�{nomiz�ja�vom,�ili�ne�pa�̀ wom,�mo�gao�sam�na�ne�ti�zlo�ne�sa�mo�[e�{e�qu,�ne�go�i�mno�-gim�dru�gi�ma.�Ko�zna�{ta�sve�pi�{u�u�onaj�za�pi�snik!�Ja�go�vo�rim�jed�no,�on�pi�{edru�go.�I�jo{�mi�te�po�ga�ne�re�~i�sta�vqa�ju�u�usta.�Za�mi�sli�te:�da�je�Vo�ja�ubio�17Hr�va�ta�i�da�sam�ja�to�re�kao!�Mr�ze�nas�{to�smo�`i�vi.�Oni,�u�stva�ri,�nas�i�nece�ne�kao�na�rod.�Mi�smo�wi�ma�po�god�ni�za�od�strel.�Ne�znam�o�~e�mu�sve�ni�samraz�mi�{qao�i�ta�ko�do�~e�kao�ju�tro.

21. septembar 2002. go di neJu�tro.�Ne�de�qa�sve�ta�osva�nu�la.�̂ u�je�se�na�De�di�wu�cvr�kut�pti�ca�iz�le�po�ob�-

li�ko�va�nih�kro�{wi,�a�ne�bo�pro�zir�no�pla�vo.�Sa�is�to�ka�se�la�ga�no�ra�|a�lo�sun�-ce�i�sla�lo�svo�je�zra�ke�̀ i�vo�ta�na�ze�mqu.�Li�{}e�je�tre�pe�ri�lo�od�la�ga�nog�ve�tri�-}a,�ko�ji�se�po�vre�me�no�ja�vqao�i�mi�lo�vao�ra�we�ne�i�na�pu�{te�ne�du�{e.�Po�sma�traosam�ju�tar�wu�pri�ro�du�ka�ko�od�mor�na�di�{e.�Do�ru~�ko�vao�sam�~a�{u�vo�de�i�ma�lohle�ba.�Bio�sam�jo{�uvek�ner�vo�zan.�Za�tim�sam�za�po�~eo�pri�pre�mu�za�po�sled�widan�is�pi�ti�va�wa.�Sam�se�be�sam�smi�ri�vao;�mo�ra{�da�iz�dr�̀ i{,�pa�{ta�bu�de�–�ne�-ka�bu�de.�I�ona�ko�pi�{u�{ta�ho�}e.�Ga�zda�ri�ca�Smi�qa�da�de�mi�ta�ble�tu�pro�tivgla�vo�bo�qe.

Re�dov�na�kon�tro�la�pri�ula�zu�omo�gu�}i�la�mi�je�pro�laz.–�Opet�ne�ma�te�ni�{ta?–�A�{ta�bi�tre�bao�da�imam?–�Ni�{ta.�Sa�mo�ka�̀ em�–�po�mir�qi�vo�po�no�vi�rad�nik�obez�be�|e�wa.Po�peo�sam�se�na�sprat�sa�pre�vo�di�teq�kom�ko�ja�me�je�~e�ka�la.–�Sa�mo�re�dov�na�kon�tro�la�–�re�kla�je.�Ov�de�je�sve�re�dov�no,�pa�i�Sr�be�do�vo�-

de�re�dov�no,�zar�ne?–�To�me�ne�ne�in�te�re�su�je.�Ja�sa�mo�ra�dim�svoj�po�sao.�Je�ste�li�se�od�mo�ri�li

po�sle�ju�~e�ra�{weg�da�na?–�Ne,�ni�sam�ni�spa�vao.–�[ta�vam�je�re�kao�Pa�o�lo�da�me�jo{�pi�ta�te?�Pi�taj�te�slo�bod�no?–�Ne,�ja�to�tek�ta�ko...�Da�ne�}u�ti�mo.�Bo�qe�je�da�ne�pri�~a�mo.�Ni�je�mi�ba{

do�ne�ke�pri�~e.Sti�gli�smo�do�kan�ce�la�ri�je�za�ob�ra�du.

88

Page 89: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Do�bro�ju�tro,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u.�Mo�gu�ta�ko�da�vas�zo�vem?–�Mo�̀ e.–�Le�po�ste�se�od�mo�ri�li,�zar�ne?–�To�ve�ro�vat�no�za�vas�ni�je�bit�no.–�Bit�no�je.�Je�ste�li�jo{�qu�ti?–�Da.�I�ne�pod�no�sim�vas,�ali�{ta�je�tu�je.�–�Mo�̀ e�mo�li�kre�nu�ti�sa�pi�ta�wi�ma?–�Mo�̀ e.�Sa�mo�vi�kre�ni�te.�Vi�se�ba�vi�te�pi�sa�wem?–�Da,�ba�vim�se.�Zar�su�vam�i�to�re�kli?–�Ka�ko�mi�sli�te:�re�kli?–�Oni�ko�ji�su�ov�de�bi�li�pre�me�ne�i�sva�{ta�pri�~a�li�o�me�ni,�a�vi�kao�slu�-

~aj�no�sve�zna�te.�Sa�tim�va�{im�pr�qa�vim�nov�cem�sve�}e�te�ku�pi�ti�ili�se�bar�ta�-ko�na�da�te.�Za�to�}e�vam�ovo�da�nas�bi�ti�pri�mer�da�ni�je�ba{�ta�ko.�A�ubr�zo�}u�ina�pi�sa�ti�sve�o�ovo�me,�da�svet�~u�je�{ta�vi,�u�stva�ri,�ra�di�te�i�ko�ri�sti�te�se�la�-`nim�iz�ja�va�ma�i�ve�{ta~�kim�sve�do�ci�ma.

–�Ima�te�li�do�ku�men�ta?–�Ne�mam.–�Ka�ko�ne�ma�te?�Mi�smo�sa�zna�li�da�ima�te.–�Imao�sam,�ali�sam�sve�spa�lio�ka�da�nas�je�po�li�ci�ja�kon�tro�li�sa�la.–�Ko�ja�po�li�ci�ja?–�Na�{a,�srp�ska...�Ta�da�sam�sve�uni�{tio.–�Ve�li�ka�{te�ta.–�Ni�je�{te�ta.–�Je�ste�ve�li�ka�{te�ta,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u.–�Ne�znam,�ali�vi�{e�ne�po�sto�ji,�ta�ko�da�je�o�to�me�su�vi�{an�raz�go�vor.�Je�dan

ma�li�deo�sam�za�dr�̀ ao�za�se�be,�pa�mo�̀ da�bi�vam�do�bro�do�{lo.–�Ka�ko�da�ne.�Sa�mo�re�ci�te.–�Imam�ori�gi�nal�ne�po�dat�ke�ka�ko�su�Hr�va�ti�ku�po�va�li�oru �̀je�i�uno�si�li�u

Hr�vat�sku�za�vre�me�Ju�go�sla�vi�je.�Mo�gu�vam�to�do�sta�vi�ti�za�jed�no�sa�ime�ni�ma�ipre�zi�me�ni�ma:�ko�je�ko�li�ko�pa�ra�dao�za�ku�po�vi�nu�oru �̀ja�i�ko�li�ko�je�ta~�no�naKu�pre�su�sku�pqe�no�nov�ca�u�tu�svr�hu.

–�Ne,�to�nas�ne�in�te�re�su�je.�Sa�mo�Sr�bi.–�Pa�ni�su�Sr�bi�sa�mi�pro�tiv�se�be�ra�to�va�li!–�Ne,�nas�in�te�re�su�ju�sa�mo�Sr�bi.–�Da�se�pre�kr�stim.�–�I�pre�kr�stim�se.–�Ka�ko�to�vi�op�tu�̀ u�je�te�sa�mo�jed�nu�stra�nu?–�Ni�je�ta�ko.�Mi�sa�da�is�pi�tu�je�mo�sa�mo�{ta�su�ra�di�li�Sr�bi.–�Zna�~i�Hr�va�ti�vas�ne�in�te�re�su�ju?–�Ne.–�Zna�~i�~ak�ni�ori�gi�nal�ni�pa�pi�ri�ko�je�sam�sa�~u�vao�zbog�pi�sa�wa�ko�jim�se

ba�vim?�Za�i�sta�~ud�no,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.�Pa�to�vi�otvo�re�no�sta�je�te�na�stra�nuHr�va�ta.�Zbog�~e�ga�to�~i�ni�te?

–�Ide�mo�da�qe.�Ko�li�ko�ste�do�sa�da�iz�da�li�kwi�ga?–�Iz�dao�sam�pet�zbir�ki�pe�sa�ma,�pi�{em�kwi�gu...�Pri�kra�ju�je�’Va�ti�kan�i

Hr�va�ti�u�sve�tlo�sti�no�vi�je�isto�ri�je’.�To�bi�vi�tre�ba�lo�da�pro�~i�ta�te,�jer�je�za�-sno�va�na�na�auten�ti~�nim�do�ga�|a�ji�ma.�Mo�̀ da�}e�te,�kad�je�pro�~i�ta�te,�pre�}i�na

89

Page 90: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

srp�sku�stra�nu.�Pi�{em�jo{�ne�ke�ro�ma�ne,�a�pri�o�ri�tet�}e�bi�ti�ovo�va�{e�mal�-tre�ti�ra�we.

Na�ovaj�moj�od�go�vor�on�se�sa�mo�pod�mu�klo�i�ci�ni~�no�sme�jao.�Ur�lih�je,�kaoi�obi~�no,�}u�tao�i�kli�mao�gla�vom.

–�Ja�bih�vo�leo�da�pro�~i�tam�tu�va�{u�kwi�gu.–�Obe�}a�vam�da�}u�vam�je,�kad�iza�|e�iz�{tam�pe,�po�klo�ni�ti.–�Ko�li�ko�tre�ba�evra�da�se�od�{tam�pa?�–�Ne�gde�od�~e�ti�ri�do�pet�hi�qa�da.–�Au...�To�li�ko?–�Pa�{ta�vi�ho�}e�te?�Da�ov�de�sve�ko�{ta�sto�evra?–�Onaj�ko�fi�nan�si�ra�kwi�ge�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa,�{to�ne�fi�nan�si�ra�i

va�{e?–�Ala�ste�vi�na�po�ran�is�tra�̀ i�teq!�Oda�kle�ja�mo�gu�zna�ti�ko�fi�nan�si�ra

kwi�ge�[e�{e�qe�ve?�A,�us�put�re�~e�no,�to�me�ni�ka�da�i�ni�je�in�te�re�so�va�lo.–�Ko�fi�nan�si�ra�ove�no�vi�ne?�–�upi�ta�me�i�po�ka�za�na�’Ve�li�ku�Sr�bi�ju’.–�Ne�znam.�Za�i�sta�ne�znam.–�Od�ku�da�no�vac�ka�da�se�ide�na�iz�bo�re?�Tu�tre�ba�do�sta�nov�ca.–�Stran�ka�je�ve�li�ka�i�sna�̀ na.�Si�gur�no�od�~la�na�ri�ne�i�do�na�to�ra...�Pret�-

po�sta�vqam.Ali,�iskre�no�da�vam�ka�̀ em�–�ne�znam.–�Da�li�se�[e�{eq�u�stran�ci�po�na�{a�kao�kraq?–�Pa�ot�kud�vam�to?�[e�{eq�je�pro�tiv�kra�qa�i�mo�nar�hi�je.�On�je�re�pu�bli�-

ka�nac.�Vi�bi�ste�hte�li�da�ne�{to�po�go�di�te,�ali�vam�ne�ide�od�ru�ke.�Na�sta�vi�teda�ga�|a�te,�mo�̀ da�}e�te�po�go�di�ti.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�mi�smo�va�ma�na�po�~et�ku�raz�go�vo�ra�re�kli�da�mi�vas{ti�ti�mo�i�da�ste�sa�da�za�{ti�}e�ni�i,�ako�us�tre�ba,�da�vas�i�va�{u�po�ro�di�cu�pre�-ba�ci�mo�u�dru�gu�ze�mqu�da�bez�bri�̀ no�`i�vi�te,�ako�bu�de�te�sprem�ni�na�sa�rad�wu.

–�Ka�kvu�sa�rad�wu?�Da�la�̀ em�i�ocr�wu�jem�srp�sku�dr�̀ a�vu,�[e�{e�qa�i�do�bro�-voq�ce,�da�pri�~am�{ta�va�ma�od�go�va�ra?�Ta�kve�sa�rad�we,�iz�me�|u�me�ne�i�vas,�ni�-ka�da�ne�}e�bi�ti.�Na�tu�la�̀ nu�kar�tu�uza�lud�igra�te.�Ja�sam�vam�re�kao�ve}�jed�nomda�ja�vi�{e�vo�lim�svo�ju�po�ro�di�cu�i�Otaybi�nu�Sr�bi�ju,�i�mo�je�se�lo�Pri�gre�vi�cu,ne�go�sva�bla�ga�sve�ta.�Za�to�sam�uvek�spre�man�da�umrem,�za�sto�pu�ove�ze�mqe�i�zasvoj�srp�ski�na�rod.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�ni�ste�vi�je�di�ni�ko�ji�vo�li�te�svo�ju�ze�mqu.�I�ja�vo�limIta�li�ju.�Ur�lih�vo�li�Ne�ma~�ku.�

–�Vi�ih�la�̀ no�vo�li�te.�Da�vo�li�te�vi�Ita�li�ju,�a�Ur�lih�Ne�ma~�ku,�ne�bi�stekao�~la�no�vi�NA�TO�ali�jan�se�tu�kli�dru�ge�na�ro�de.�Jed�nog�da�na�}e�vam�se�to�vra�-ti�ti.�Ne�po�sto�ji�na�sve�tu�ne�po�be�di�vi�bo�rac,�go�spo�do.�

–�Po�sto�ji,�Osto�ji�}u,�Mar�}a�no.–�Gre�{i�te,�Pa�o�lo.�Je�ste�on�po�re�klom�Ita�li�jan�ili�no�si�sa�mo�to�pre�zi�-

me.�On�se�na�vre�me�po�vu�kao�i�sa�mo�za�to�ni�je�iz�gu�bio.�Za�to�i�vas�dvo�ji�ca�i�va�-{e�ze�mqe�tre�ba�do�bro�da�raz�mi�sli�te�ko�li�ko�}e�NA�TO�du�go�po�be�|i�va�ti.�Ima�-te�jo{�ma�lo�vre�me�na�da�se�po�vu�~e�te.

–�Ne�mo�ra�te�nas�sa�ve�to�va�ti.–�Vas�i�ne�vre�di�sa�ve�to�va�ti.–�Raz�mi�sli�te�o�po�nu�di�o�sa�rad�wi.

90

Page 91: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ne�mam�{ta�da�raz�mi�{qam.–�Ipak�raz�mi�sli�te.�Mi�smo�sprem�ni�na�sa�rad�wu.�Sve�sto�ji�do�vas.–�Do�me�ne�ne�sto�ji�ni�{ta.–�Sto�ji.�Vi�ste�ozbiq�na�li~�nost�i�tre�ba�da�sa�ra�|u�je�te,�da�se�iz�~o�ve�~an�-

stva�is�ko�re�ni�zlo�~in.�To�je�oba�ve�za�sva�kog�od�nas.–�Za�i�sta,�zlo�~in�tre�ba�is�ko�re�ni�ti.�Ja�sam�pro�tiv�we�ga.�Za�to�sam.�Ali�ne

sa�mo�kod�Sr�ba,�ve}�i�kod�Hr�va�ta�i�kod�mu�sli�ma�na.–�Da�li�pri�zna�je�te�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nal?–�Da,�on�po�sto�ji.�To�pri�zna�jem.�Ali�da�je�za�kon�ska�me�|u�na�rod�na�in�sti�tu�-

ci�ja�za�sno�va�na�po�me�|u�na�rod�nim�nor�ma�ma,�to�ne�pri�zna�jem.�Vi�sa�mi�zna�te�za�-{to�je�for�mi�ran�sud�u�Ha�gu?

–�Ne�znam.�Vi�mi�re�ci�te.–�I�ho�}u.�For�mi�ran�je�da�po�be�di�te�Sr�be�i�do�ka�̀ e�te�ka�ko�su�Sr�bi�zlo�~in�-

ci,�a�sa�mim�tim�da�pri�kri�je�te�va{�zlo�~in�i�stvar�ne�zlo�~in�ce.–�Zna�~i�vi�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nal�jed�nim�de�lom�pri�zna�je�te,�a�jed�nim�de�lom�ne?–�Re�kao�sam.�Ne�}u�da�se�po�na�vqam.–�Ni�sam�vas�do�bro�raz�u�meo.–�Raz�u�me�}e�te,�ima�vre�me�na.�Vi�ste�tu�za�pi�sa�li�u�va{�tef�ter�si�gur�no�da

pri�zna�jem�Tri�bu�nal.�Ko�sam,�na�kra�ju�kra�je�va,�ja�da�pri�znam�to�gne�zdo�srp�skoguni�{te�wa?�Re�kao�ja�da�ili�ne�vi�to�jed�na�ko�tre�ti�ra�te.

–�Da�li�je�va�ma�Vo�jo�[e�{eq�bio�ko�man�dant?–�Ni�je.–�Ka�ko�ni�je�ako�ste�pri�pa�da�li�S^P-u�dok�se�ni�je�uga�sio?–�On�je�bio�pred�sed�nik�S^P-a,�a�ne�ko�man�dant,�ali�taj�po�kret�se�uga�sio,

~i�ni�mi�se,�jo{�1992.�ili�1993.�go�di�ne,�ta�ko�da�to�sa�ne�kom�ko�man�dom�ne�ma�ve�-ze�bi�lo�ka�kve.

–�A�ko�je�on�da�bio?–�Ni�ko�od�re�|en.–�Ka�ko�ni�ko?–�Pa�ni�ko.�Po�sto�ja�li�su�do�bro�vo�qa~�ki�{ta�bo�vi,�re�kao�sam�vam�to.–�Ali�ka�ko�to�da�ne�ma�ko�man�dan�ta?–�Ima,�ko�ka�̀ e�da�ne�ma.�Do�bro�voq�ci�su�sa�mi�se�bi�bi�ra�li�ko�man�dan�ta�pri

po�la�sku�ili�na�sa�mom�bo�ji�{tu.–�A�ni�je�[e�{eq�go�vo�rio:�’ti�si’�i�ti�me�se�iz�bor�za�vr�{a�vao?–�Ne,�ko�li�ko�ja�znam.–�Ko�je�vas�od�re�dio�za�ko�man�dan�ta?–�Do�bro�voq�ci.–�Vi�ste�se�pri�hva�ti�li?–�Da.�Bi�la�mi�je�~ast.–�Ko�vas�je�pro�gla�sio�voj�vo�dom?–�U�ma�na�sti�ru�Kne�̀ i�ni�je�iz�vr�{e�no�pro�gla�{e�we.–�Ko�vam�je�~i�tao�za�kle�tvu?–�[to�pi�ta�te�kad�ima�te�ka�se�tu?�Ako�ja�tre�ba�da�ka�̀ em,�evo�re�}i�}u:�ve�-

li�ki�srp�ski�sin�i�voj�vo�da�dr�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq.–�Vi�u�to�ku�ce�log�ovog�is�pi�ti�va�wa�hva�li�te�[e�{e�qa?

91

Page 92: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ne,�to�ni�je�ta~�no.�Ja�o�we�mu�sa�mo�pri�~am�isti�nu�i�ne�mam�na�me�ru�da�go�-vo�rim�ono�{to�vi�`e�li�te,�od�no�sno�ne�i�sti�nu.

–�Ima�te�li�bi�lo�ka�kvu�do�ku�men�ta�ci�ju�o�Hr�va�ti�ma?–�Ako�mi�sli�te�o�po�kre�tu,�o�~la�no�vi�ma�SRS,�o�do�bro�voq�ci�ma,�re�kao�sam

vam�da�sam�to�sve�spa�lio�kad�sam�oti�{ao�iz�stran�ke.–�Ni�je�osta�lo�ni�{ta?–�Ni�{ta.�Na�kon�pa�qe�wa,�sve�na�sme�tli�{te�i�–�za�vr�{e�no.�Vi�dim�da�vi

ima�te�tu�ne�ke�spi�sko�ve.�Eto�mog�ime�na�na�vr�hu�spi�ska.�Ne�ko�vam�je�sve�to�do�-sta�vio,�a�me�ne�pro�ve�ra�va�te�sa�mo�da�li�ga�i�ja�imam.

–�Da,�mi�po�se�du�je�mo�gro�spi�sko�va�sa�mo�nam�ne�do�sta�je�va�{a�is�po�vest�kaovoj�vo�de�iz�’Ve�li�ke�Sr�bi�je’.�Sve�osta�le�is�po�ve�sti�ima�mo.

–�Ja�se�ni�sam�ni�ko�me�is�po�ve�dao,�ta�ko�da�yabe�li�sta�te�i�tra�̀ i�te�me�u�’Ve�-li�koj�Sr�bi�ji’.

–�Evo,�vi�di�te,�na�ovoj�fo�to�gra�fi�ji�vi�i�[e�{eq�se�sr�da~�no�ru�ku�je�te�is�-pred�Na�rod�ne�skup�{ti�ne.

–�Da�ru�ku�je�mo�se.�Ni�je�za�bra�we�no.–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�ko�li�ko�pu�ta�ste�vi�de�li�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a?–�Mi�sli�te�na�TV-u?–�Ne,�u`i�vo.–�Jed�nom.–�Je�ste�li�pri�~a�li�sa�wim?–�Ne,�ni�sam.�Bi�la�je�to�skup�{ti�na.�Ne�se�}am�se�u�ve�zi�~e�ga.–�Ho�}e�te�da�vas�pod�se�tim?–�Ne�moj�te.–�Za�{to?–�Ne�ve�ru�jem�u�va�{e�in�for�ma�ci�je,�a�we�ga�sam�vi�deo�sa�mo�ta�da.–�Po�zna�je�te�li�po�ro�di�cu�Slo�bo�da�na�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a?–�Ne.–�Je�li�isti�na�da�se�we�gov�sin�obo�ga�tio�ve�li�kim�ra�dom?–�Ne�po�zna�jem�qu�de�iz�we�go�ve�oko�li�ne�kao�ni�we�go�vu�po�ro�di�cu�i�ne�znam

{ta�su�ra�di�li,�a�ni�sa�da�ne�znam�gde�su.�Je�di�no�znam�gde�je�Mi�lo�{e�vi}.–�Okej.�To�zna�mo�i�mi�–�na�sme�jao�se.–�[ta�mi�sli�te,�Osto�ji�}u,�o�sa�rad�wi�SPS�i�SRS?–�To�tre�ba�da�pi�ta�te�ru�ko�vod�stva�tih�stra�na�ka.–�[ta�mi�sli�te:�da�li�bi�bi�lo�do�bro�da�ra�di�ka�li�po�be�de�na�iz�bo�ri�ma�i�da

To�mi�slav�Ni�ko�li}�bu�de�pred�sed�nik�Sr�bi�je?–�To�pi�ta�we�ni�je�za�me�ne.�Ja�ne�`e�lim�da�na�to�od�go�vo�rim.�Ali�ako�in�si�-

sti�ra�te,�moj�od�go�vor�je�po�tvr�dan.–�Okej.–�Da�vas�pi�tam�ova�ko:�{ta�je�bo�qe�–�da�po�be�di�Ko�{tu�ni�ca�ili�Ni�ko�li}?–�Ne�znam�ni�{ta.�Ne�raz�u�mem�ko�ji�je�ciq�tog�pi�ta�wa.�Je�di�no�mo�gu�da�ga

sma�tram�za�pro�vo�ka�ci�ju.�Zar�ne�mo�̀ e�te�da�shva�ti�te�da�sam�se�po�vu�kao�iz�po�li�-ti�ke?

–�Za�ko�ga�}e�te�sa�da�gla�sa�ti?�Do�sa�da�ste�gla�sa�li�za�SRS,�jer�ste�bi�li�wi�-hov�pri�sta�li�ca?

–�I�sa�da�sam�wi�hov�pri�sta�li�ca,�sa�mo�sam�se�po�vu�kao�iz�jav�nog�po�li�ti~�kog92

Page 93: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

`i�vo�ta.–�A�da�vas�sa�da�po�zo�vu�da�se�ak�ti�vi�ra�te?�–�upi�ta�ne�na�da�no�Ur�lih.–�Naj�ve�ro�vat�ni�je�da,�ali�pod�uslo�vom�da�se�do�go�vo�ri�mo.–�Za�{to�se�ne�ak�ti�vi�ra�te�u�DS�ili�DHSS?–�Ne�za�ni�ma�me�ni�wi�ho�va�ido�lo�gi�ja�ni�taj�tip�vo�|e�wa�po�li�ti�ke.�Ili,�bo�-

qe�re�}i,�ta�mo�ne�bih�ni�ka�da�oti�{ao�da�se�ba�vim�po�li�ti�kom.–�Je�ste�li�ika�da�bi�li�u�[e�{e�qe�voj�ku�}i�u�Ba�taj�ni�ci?–�Da,�jed�nom�ili�dva�pu�ta.–�[ta�ste�ta�mo�ra�di�li?–�No�sio�sam�ne�ke�kwi�ge�ko�je�ni�su�bi�le�pro�da�te.–�Zna�~i,�ni�je�uvek�sve�kwi�ge�uspe�vao�da�pro�da.–�Sa�mo�tre�nut�no.�Ka�sni�je�je�ste.�Sve�se�uvek�ras�pro�da�ju.–�Da�li�se�oda�tle�jed�nim�de�lom�fi�nan�si�ra�la�stran�ka�ili�je�on�sav�no�vac

za�dr�̀ ao�za�se�be?–�To�je�we�go�va�pri�vat�na�stvar.–�Ko�je�fi�nan�si�rao�kwi�ge�Mi�re�Mar�ko�vi}-Mi�lo�{e�vi}?–�Bo�̀ e�me�sa�~u�vaj�od�ku�ge�i�La�ti�na!–�Ho�}e�te�po�no�vi�ti?–�Bo�̀ e�me�sa�~u�vaj�od�ku�ge�i�La�ti�na!�–�A�{ta�to�zna�~i?–�Zna�~i�da�ste�ubi�ta~�no�na�por�ni�i�da�ubi�ja�te�kao�ku�ga�pod�mu�klo.�Ta�ko�ra�-

de�La�ti�ni,�a�vi�ste�ti�pi�~an�tip�ta�kvog�La�ti�na.–�Okej.–�I�ja�ka�̀ em�okej.–�Ko�li�ko�je�va�{e�se�lo�ukup�no�da�lo�do�bro�vo�qa�ca�i�re�zer�vi�sta�u�to�ku�ovih

ra�to�va?–�Ne�gde�1.500-2.000�qu�di.–�Zar�to�ni�je�mno�go�na�5.000�sta�nov�ni�ka?–�Iz�vi�ni�te,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�ot�kud�vi�zna�te�da�mo�je�se�lo�ima�5.000�`i�-

te�qa?�Ka�ko�vi�to�zna�te?–�Ide�mo�da�qe.–�Ne�ide�mo�da�qe.�Ka�ko�zna�te?�Od�go�vo�rio�je:–�Ni�je�bit�no.–�Bit�no�je.�Ko�vam�je�to�sa�op�{tio?–�Ne�mo�gu�vam�re�}i.�Raz�u�me�te?–�Ne�raz�u�mem.–�Ko�li�ko�ste�ima�li�mr�tvih,�po�gi�nu�lih�iz�va�{eg�se�la?–�Dva�na�est.–�Ta�ko�ma�lo?–�Ka�ko�ma�lo?�To�je�pre�vi�{e!�Sa�da�ka�da�vi�dim�da�ste�ih�u�stva�ri�vi�po�bi�-

li,�uhva�ti�me�jo{�ve�}a�tu�ga.–�Mi�po�bi�li?–�Vi,�da.�Ovo�je�bio�va{�rat�i�va�{eg�Va�ti�ka�na.–�Pa�zi�te�{ta�pri�~a�te.–�Pa�zi�te�vi�{ta�pi�ta�te.�Re�kao�sam�da�od�go�va�ram�i�bra�nim�se�isti�nom.

93

Page 94: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Kon�tak�ti�ra�te�li�sa�da�sa�[e�{e�qem?–�Ne.–�Kon�tak�ti�ra�te�li�sa�SRS?–�Ne.–�Je�ste�li�~lan�ne�kog�po�kre�ta?–�Ne.–�Da�li�bi�opet�ra�to�va�li?–�Ako�ne�ko�na�pad�ne�Sr�bi�ju,�bih.–�Za�{to�ste�ra�to�va�li�van�Sr�bi�je?–�Re�kao�sam�vam�ve}�vi�{e�pu�ta.–�Je�ste�li�ima�li�cen�tar�za�obu�ku�do�bro�vo�qa�ca?–�Je�sam.�Na�rib�wa�ku�u�Oku�~a�ni�ma.–�Ko�je�bio�ko�man�dant�cen�tra?–�Bi�la�je�mo�ja�ma�len�kost.–�Vi�ste�bi�li?�–�upa�da�za�~u�|e�no�Ur�lih.–�Da,�ja�sam�bio.�Zar�vas�to�~u�di?–�Da.�Mi�smo�mi�sli�li�[e�{eq?–�Po�gre�{no�ste�mi�sli�li.–�Da�li�je�[e�{eq�uop�{te�do�pri�neo�od�bra�ni�Sr�ba�u�Kra�ji�ni�i�BiH?–�Je�ste,�i�to�mno�go.�Vi�{e�ne�go�{to�vi�uop�{te�mo�̀ e�te�da�za�mi�sli�te.�To�je

ve�li�ki�pa�tri�o�ta,�a�ne�la�̀ ni,�kao�ne�ki,�ne�go�stvar�ni.–�Da�li�je�iz�vu�kao�ka�kvu�ma�te�ri�jal�nu�ko�rist�u�to�ku�ra�ta?–�Po�mom�sa�zna�wu,�ni�je.–�[e�{eq�je�opa�san?–�Ni�je,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.�To�je�~o�vek�ose�}a�jan�i�me�kog�sr�ca.�Ka�ko�mi�Sr�-

bi�ka�̀ e�mo,�gru�bi�jan�sa�me�kim�sr�cem.�Opa�san�ni�je�si�gur�no.–�Da�li�on�sa�ra�|u�je�sa�SPS?–�Pi�taj�te�to�SRS?–�Da�li�je�ta~�no�da�je�ne�ki�~o�vek�umro�u�stran�ci�po�{to�ga�je�[e�{eq�iz�-

ner�vi�rao,�a�da�je�taj�~o�vek�pre�we�ga�po�kre�nuo�S^P?–�Ka�kve�se�jo{�ne�bu�lo�ze�ne�vr�zma�ju�po�toj�va�{oj�gla�vi,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo?–�Sa�mo�pi�ta�mo.–�Pi�ta�te�da�ja�po�tvr�dim�da�je�[e�{eq�ubio�~o�ve�ka.�[ta�je�sa�va�ma?–�Do�bro,�a�ne�ku�`e�nu�oko�naf�te?– Vi�ho�}e�te�opet�da�me�iz�ner�vi�ra�te.�Pi�taj�te�onog�ko�vam�je�to�re�kao.

Kud�ste�me�ne�uhva�ti�li�pi�ta�ti�ta�kve�la�̀ i?�Ja�da�vam�bu�dem�sve�dok�za�ta�kveglu�po�sti�i�iz�mi�{qo�ti�ne.�Ka�kva�naf�ta,�ka�kva�̀ e�na,�ka�kav�~o�vek,�ko�ji�Hr�va�-ti?�Pa�vi�ste�za�i�sta�~u�dan�~o�vek.�Ili�po�la�zi�te�od�ono�ga:�ako�la �̀pro�|e,�bi�-}e�isti�na.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�da�li�se�vi�bo�ji�te�mo�̀ da�[e�{e�qa�kad�ga�to�li�kobra�ni�te?

–�Slu�{aj�te,�ja�se�bo�jim�sa�mo�Bo�ga�i�ni�kog�vi�{e.�Ja�[e�{e�qa�ne�bra�nim,sa�mo�ne�}u�da�tvr�dim�ono�{to�ni�je�ta~�no.

–�Vi�do�sa�da�ni�ste�ni�{ta�po�tvr�di�li.–�Zna�~i�da�ste�la�̀ no�oba�ve�{te�ni.�Ne�ka�te�stva�ri�po�sve�do�~i�onaj�ko�vas

je�o�wi�ma�oba�ve�stio,�a�ne�ja�ko�ji�o�to�me�ne�mam�ve�ze.�Ako�ho�}e�te�mo�je�mi�{qe�-94

Page 95: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

we,�ja�mi�slim�da�je�to�~i�sta�iz�mi�{qo�ti�na.–�Ni�smo�za�vr�{i�li�sa�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi}�Zo�ra�nom-̂ i�~om.�Da�li�je�on�bio�na�-

~el�nik�[e�{e�qe�vog�{ta�ba�SRS?–�Ne�znam.–�Zna�te�li�Dra�̀ i�lo�vi�}a?–�Znam�iz�vi�|e�wa,�ne�{to�po�seb�no�ne.–�Za�{to�je�ote�ran�Qu�bi�{a?–�To�za�i�sta�ne�znam.�Bi�lo�je�ra�znih�pri�~a,�ali�ja�za�i�sta�nijed�nu�ne�znam,�a

pro�{lo�je�od�to�ga�i�do�sta�go�di�na,�a�i�rat�je�u~i�nio�svo�je�pa�ne�mo�gu�sve�ga�da�sese�tim.

–�Kad�je�do�{ao�To�ma�Ni�ko�li}�u�stran�ku?–�Mi�slim�1992.�go�di�ne.–�Zna�~i�po�sle�vas.–�Da,�ta�ko�ne�{to.�A�za�{to�je�za�vas�bit�no�ka�da�je�ko�do�la�zio�ili�ka�da�je

ko�oti�{ao,�za�{to,�itd?�Ide�te�i�pod�ri�va�te.�Pra�vi�te�raz�dor�za�va�{ih�100�evra.–�Na�sva�ko�pi�ta�we�vi�du�go�od�go�va�ra�te�i�uzi�ma�te�mi�vre�me,�go�spo�di�ne

Osto�ji�}u.–�[ta,�sa�da�}e�te�me�jo{�i�za�to�op�tu�̀ i�ti?�Me�ne�ili�[e�{e�qa?�Si�gur�-

no�mi�sli�te�da�me�je�na�sve�na�go�vo�rio�on,�ili�mi�na�re�dio,�a�ja�iz�vr�{io,�je�lita�ko?

–�Mo�lim�vas,�ja�da�nas�mo�ram�da�za�vr�{im�in�ter�vju,�za�to�kra�}e�od�go�va�-raj�te.

–�Pre�ki�ni�te�pi�ta�ti�i�sti�}i�}e�te.–�Da�nas�ra�di�mo�do�21�~as.–�Ne�in�te�re�su�je�me�vre�me,�ov�de�je�le�po.�Le�po�se�za�ba�vqa�mo.�Ba�vi�mo�se�tra�-

~e�vi�ma,�ola�ja�va�te�ne�vi�ne�qu�de,�a�ja�tre�bam�da�to�sa�mo�ove�rim,�pa�da�ski�da�mopo�sle�ovog�in�ter�vjua�gla�ve.�Zna�se�~i�je�–�srp�ske.

–�Ni�je�sve�ta�ko�kao�{to�vi�vi�di�te.–�A�ka�ko�je?�Jo{�cr�we.–�Raz�mi�sli�te�o�pred�lo�gu.�Sa�da�}e�20�~a�so�va.�Dok�vam�pro�~i�tam�Za�pi�snik

i�sve�ko�pi�ra�mo,�bi�}e�21�~as.–�O�~e�mu�da�raz�mi�slim?–�Da�bu�de�te�sve�dok�sa�rad�nik�i�da�vam�se�ne�zna�ime.–�Ja,�ako�bu�dem�sve�do�~io�pro�tiv�ne�ko�ga,�to�}e�bi�ti�jav�no.�Ni�sam�ja�Mi�lan

Ba�bi}.–�To�je�okej,�ali�mi�ne�vo�li�mo�da�se�zna�ko�sve�do�~i.–�Za�{to?–�Zbog�sa�mih�sve�do�ka,�jer�po�sle�ima�ju�pro�ble�ma.–�Za�{to,�ako�go�vo�re�isti�nu,�{to�bi�se�kri�li?–�Zna�~i,�ako�pri�sta�ne�te,�vi�bi�jav�no�sve�do�~i�li?–�Da,�jav�no,�ali�sa�mo�isti�nu�bi�pri�~ao,�pa�nek�se�zna�ko�je�kriv.–�Ne�mo�̀ e�ta�ko.–�A�za�{to�ne�mo�̀ e?–�Za�to�{to�mo�ra�mo�po�sta�vi�ti�pra�vi�la�ka�ko�Tri�bu�nal�od�re�di.�Mo�̀ e�li

jo{�par�pi�ta�wa,�pa�da�za�vr�{i�mo�za�da�nas�i�do�po�nov�nog�vi�|e�wa?–�Mo�̀ e.

95

Page 96: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Za�bo�ra�vio�sam�ne�{to�da�vas�pi�tam.�Da�li�je�isti�na�da�ste�dve�go�di�nepro�si�li�da�bi�ste�pre�hra�ni�li�po�ro�di�cu�i�da�su�vas�pre�te�̀ no�po�ma�ga�li�som�-bor�ski�di�le�ri.

–�Isti�na�je.�Pro�sio�sam�dve�go�di�ne,�ali�ni�sam�krao�i�la�gao,�i�sa�ti�me�sepo�no�sim.

–�[to�vas�ni�je�po�mo�gla�SRS?–�To�pi�taj�te�wih.–�Da�li�su�zna�li�da�ta�ko�te�{ko�`i�vi�te?–�To�za�i�sta�ne�znam.–�Za�{to�su�vas�osta�vi�li�na�ce�di�lu?–�Zbog�la�̀ i�u�ko�je�su�po�ve�ro�va�li.�Ko�zna,�mo�̀ da�sam�i�ne�kom�za�sme�tao.–�Vi�to�ni�ste�za�slu�̀ i�li.–�Ot�kud�vi�zna�te�da�li�je�sam�ili�ni�sam?–�Znam�iz�po�u�zda�nih�iz�vo�ra.–�Kad�zna�te,�{to�pi�ta�te?–�Sa�mo�ho�}u�da�pro�ve�rim.–�Eto,�pro�ve�ri�li�ste.�Ta~�no�je.–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�zar�vam�to�ni�je�do�sta?�Dok�oni�do�bro�̀ i�ve�i�me�|u�-

sob�no�se�po�ma�̀ u,�vi�pro�si�te�i�ni�ste�pro�tiv�wih.�Vi�ste�za�slu�̀ i�li�da�le�ko�vi�-{e�od�to�ga.

–�Ka�ko�vi�u�Ha�gu�sve�le�po�zna�te�o�dru�gi�ma,�a�o�se�bi,�iz�gle�da,�ne�zna�te�ni�-{ta.�Ne�̀ e�lim�da�me�vi�{e�o�to�me�pi�ta�te.�Pro�sio�sam�i�pre�̀ i�veo,�ali�ni�samni�kog�mo�lio.�Ko�me�sam�sti�gao,�ja�sam�vra�tio.�Svim�di�le�ri�ma�u�Som�bo�ru�vra�-tio�sam�dug.�I�dru�gi�ma�ko�ji�su�me�po�ma�ga�li.

–�Okej,�okej,�ne�moj�te�se�qu�ti�ti.–�Ne�qu�tim�se�na�vas,�ne�go�na�se�be.–�Za�{to?–�Ne�znam�ni�sam.�Pi�taj�te�da�qe.–�Zna�te�li�Mom�~i�la�Kra�ji�{ni�ka?–�Da.–�[ta�mi�sli�te�o�we�mu?�–�Do�bar�~o�vek.�Za�tvo�ri�li�ste�pot�pu�no�ne�vi�nog�~o�ve�ka.�–�Ka�ko�zna�te?–�Ka�ko�ne�bih�znao?�Ka�da�sam�hteo�da�oslo�bo�dim�So�ko�le,�on�je�to�spre�~io

i�re�kao:�pu�caw�u�So�ko�le�je�pu�caw�u�mo�ju�po�li�ti�ku.�A�vi�mu�sa�da�su�di�te.–�Su�di�mo�mu�zbog�naf�te,�on�je�{ver�co�vao�naf�tu�i�ne�ke�dru�ge�stva�ri.�–�Ja�to�ne�znam.�–�Zna�te�li�da�je�i�to�zlo�~in?�–�Ako�je�ta~�no�to�{to�ka�̀ e�te.�Sa�mo�ni�sam�znao�da�se�zlo�~i�ni�me�re

naf�tom.�–�Ka�ko�to�mi�sli�te?–�Vi�is�tra�̀ u�je�te�ge�no�cid,�a�ova�mo�tvr�di�te�da�je�Kra�ji�{nik�{ver�co�vao

naf�tu.�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�to�ne�ma�ve�ze�jed�no�sa�dru�gim.�Kra�ji�{nik�je,�{to�seti�~e�ge�no�ci�da,�si�gur�no�ne�vin�~o�vek,�i�ja�vas�u�to�uve�ra�vam.�

–�Za�vas�su�svi�Sr�bi�ne�vi�ni.�–�Si�gur�no�je�to�ta�ko�ka�da�vi�ka�̀ e�te.�

96

Page 97: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ko�li�ko�ste�pu�ta�bi�li�sa�Kra�ji�{ni�kom?�–�Par�pu�ta.–�Je�li�na�lo�̀ io�da�se�ubi�ja�ju�mu�sli�ma�ni?�–�On�ni�je.�Si�gur�no.�–�A�ko�je?–�Ne�znam�ni�da�su�ubi�ja�ni�mu�sli�ma�ni,�ali�znam�da�su�wi�ho�vi�snaj�pe�ri�sti

ubi�ja�li�de�cu�u�raj�lo�va~�koj�ka�sar�ni,�Vo�go�{}i�i�na�dru�gim�me�sti�ma.�Vi,�go�spo�-di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�i�va{�Tri�bu�nal�sa�mo�Sr�be�pro�ga�wa�te.�Ja�sam�pro�tiv�ge�no�ci�da,�ako�ga�je�iz�vr�{io�ne�ka�od�go�va�ra,�bez�raz�li�ke�ko�me�na�ro�du�pri�pa�da.�Va�{a�NA�-TO�ali�jan�sa�tre�ba�da�od�go�va�ra�{to�je�bom�bar�do�va�la�Sr�bi�ju,�ubi�ja�la�ne�vin�na�-rod,�od�de�ce�do�sta�ra�ca�i�sta�ri�ca.

–�Ne�}e�mo�o�to�me.�Do�sta�sam�vas�slu�{ao.�Vi,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�na�ma�ov�-de�dr�̀ i�te�pre�da�va�wa,�ume�sto�da�mi�is�pi�tu�je�mo�vas.

–�Go�vo�rim�sa�mo�isti�nu.–�Da�pro�~i�ta�mo�za�pi�snik?–�Mo�̀ e.–�Iz�vi�wa�va�mo�se.�Mo�̀ e�jo{�jed�no�pi�ta�we.–�Mo�̀ e.–�Po�va�ma,�Osto�ji�}u,�[e�{eq�ni�je�imao�ve�lik�uti�caj�me�|u�do�bro�voq�ci�-

ma.–�Ko�to�pa�sad�ka�̀ e?–�Za�kqu�~i�li�smo�iz�raz�go�vo�ra�sa�va�ma.–�Ako�je�ta�ko,�ne�ka�bu�de.�Jer,�{ta�dru�go�da�vam�od�go�vo�rim.�Vi�sva�ka�ko�tu

pi�{e�te�{ta�ho�}e�te.–�Je�ste�li�u�to�ku�ra�ta�kon�tak�ti�ra�li�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�{e�qa?–�Je�sam.�^e�sto.�Po�po�tre�bi.–�A�ka�kva�je�to,�na�pri�mer,�bi�la�po�tre�ba?–�Obi~�no�o�SRS�i�ka�kvo�je�sta�we.–�On�vas�ni�je�pi�tao�za�do�bro�voq�ce?–�Je�ste.�Ima�li�po�gi�nu�lih�i�ka�kva�je�di�sci�pli�na.�^e�sti�tao�je�na�hra�brom

dr�̀ a�wu� do�bro�vo�qa�ca,� sna�la�̀ qi�vo�sti,� di�sci�li�ni,� itd.�Uglav�nom,� ta�kav� jebio�na{�raz�go�vor.

–�Da�li�vam�je�[e�{eq�ika�da�po�slao�do�bro�voq�ce�na�front?–�Ko�li�ko�pu�ta�da�od�go�vo�rim�NE�i�NE.–�Kad�vam�za�tre�ba�ju�do�bro�voq�ci,�je�ste�li�ga�zva�li?–�Ne.–�A�ko�ga�ste�zva�li?–�Ni�ko�ga.–�Ka�ko�ni�ko�ga?–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�re�kao�sam:�po�sto�ja�li�su�do�bro�vo�qa~�ki�{ta�bo�vi,�i�ko�-

ji�qu�di�su�umr�li,�i�ko�ji�su�na�pu�sti�li�ze�mqu.�Gde�je�ko,�za�i�sta�ne�znam.–�Da�li�je�[e�{eq�dr�̀ ao�go�vo�re?–�Je�ste.–�Da�li�su�to�bi�li�go�vo�ri�mr�̀ we?–�Ne.

97

Page 98: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ka�ko�ne?�Ne�ki�ko�ji�su�ov�de�bi�li�pre�vas�re�kli�su�da.–�To�je�wi�ho�va�iz�ja�va,�a�ne�mo�ja.�Wi�ho�ve�me�iz�ja�ve�ap�so�lut�no�ne�za�ni�ma�ju.

Ot�kud�ja�mo�gu�da�znam�ka�ko�ko�ce�ni�~i�ji�go�vor.–�Da�li�je�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�po�zi�vao�u�rat�i�na�lin~�mu�sli�ma�na�i�Hr�va�ta?–�Ne.�To�ni�je�ta~�no.�Po�zi�vao�je�na�od�bra�nu.�Da�se�na�rod�ne�pre�da�je�u�ru�ke

mu�sli�ma�ni�ma�i�usta�{a�ma,�jer�}e�ih�po�bi�ti�kao�1941.�go�di�ne�i�da�bra�ne�svo�jeku�}e�i�ze�mqu,�jer�je�to�wi�ho�va�ve�kov�na�ze�mqa.�Kao�{to�i�je�ste.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�vi�ste�po�dr�̀ a�va�li�ta�kve�go�vo�re�Vo�ji�sla�va�[e�-{e�qa.

–�Da,�i�sa�da�ih�po�dr�̀ a�vam.–�Ali�on�i�SRS�vas�ne�po�dr�̀ a�va�ju.–�Re�kao�sam:�to�ni�je�va{�pro�blem.–�Za�{to�to�li�ko�po�dr�̀ a�va�te�[e�{e�qa?�–�To�je�moj�pro�blem.–�Je�ste�li�dr�̀ a�li�go�vor�sa�[e�{e�qom�u�Ja�god�wa�ku,�u�Ba�ra�wi?–�Uh,�ala�ste�oba�ve�{te�ni.�Pa�sve�zna�te.�Ima�te�i�ka�se�te,�a�me�ne�pro�ve�ra�-

va�te.�Sva�ka�~ast.�Stra�{ni�ste.Smeh�Pa�o�la�i�we�go�vo�stan�dard�no�–�okej,�okej.–�Ima�li�ste�vi�{e�za�jed�ni~�kih�tri�bi�na.–�Da.–�Ka�ko�je�bi�lo?–�Do�bro.�Od�li~�no.–�Po�zi�va�li�ste�do�bro�voq�ce.–�Ne.�Oni�su�se�oda�zi�va�li�sa�mi.�To�je�na�do�bro�voq�noj�osno�vi.�Mno�gi�su

oti�{li�na�front�da�ni�ko�ni�je�znao�od�wi�ho�vih�uku�}a�na,�a�ka�ko�tek�da�je�znao[e�{eq.�Vi�ste�re�{i�li,�iz�gle�da,�da�we�ga�osu�di�te,�a�ne�ma�te�raz�lo�ga,�pa�sa�dasku�pqa�te�sve�do�ke�po�Sr�bi�ji,�pot�ku�pqu�je�te�jef�ti�no,�za�si�tan�no�vac,�qu�de�sit�-ne�du�{e.

–�Ne.�Ne.�To�ni�je�ta~�no,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u.–�A�{ta�je�ta~�no?–�Ta~�no�je�da�je�pod�stre�ki�vao�na�rod�i�do�bro�voq�ce�na�zlo�~in�i�dr�̀ ao�go�-

vo�re�mr�̀ we.–�To�ni�je�ta~�no,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.�Iz�gu�bi�li�ste�se�u�{u�mi�pi�ta�wa�i�sad

ne�zna�te�gde�ste�sta�li.�Ho�}e�te�li�da�vas�ta~�no�pod�se�tim�ka�da�ste�me�{ta�pi�ta�-li,�u�ko�je�vre�me,�i�{ta�sam�vam�od�go�vo�rio?�Pre�ma�to�me,�me�ne�va{�taj�za�pi�snikne�za�ni�ma,�a�po�seb�no�ne�na�taj�na�~in�vo�|en.�Ka�ko�vo�di�te�is�tra�gu�pro�tiv�Vo�ji�-sla�va�[e�{e�qa�to�je�bru�ka�i�sra�mo�ta�za�vas�li~�no.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�vi�na�ma�opet�uzi�ma�te�ogrom�no�vre�me�va�{im�du�̀ imod�go�vo�ri�ma.�Sa�da�}e�te�nam�na�par�pi�ta�wa�krat�ko�od�go�vo�ri�ti,�sa�mo�sa�’da’�i’ne’.�Je�ste�li�me�raz�u�me�li?

–�Je�sam.�Ali�pro�te�stu�jem.�Vi�me�ni�us�kra�}u�je�te�od�go�vo�re,�a�na�me�}e�te�va{pro�vo�ka�tiv�ni�na�~in�ra�da.�Ko�li�ko�}e�ti�od�go�vo�ri�bi�ti�pre�ci�zni,� ja�ni�samba{�u�to�si�gu�ran.

–�Opet�nam�uze�ste�vre�me.–�Me�ne�vre�me�ne�in�te�re�su�je,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.–�Je�li�[e�{eq�imao�bi�lo�ka�kve�ve�ze�sa�do�bro�voq�ci�ma�i�wi�ho�vom�or�ga�-

ni�za�ci�jom,�mi�slim�S^P?98

Page 99: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�To�sam�vam�ve}�jed�nom�re�kao.–�Od�go�vo�ri�te�sa�’da’�ili�’ne’.–�To�sam�vam�ve}�jed�nom�re�kao.–�Ho�}e�te�li�da�od�go�vo�ri�te.–�Ne.–�Da�li�je�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�od�vo�dio�do�bro�voq�ce�na�front?–�Ni�je.�Go�vo�rim�vam�ve}�sto�ti�put.–�Da�li�je�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq�slao�qu�de,�od�no�sno�do�bro�voq�ce-~et�ni�ke�na

front?–�Re�kao�sam�da�ja�to�ne�znam�po�{to�sam�bio�na�fron�tu.�Mi�slim�da�to�ni�je

~i�nio,�jer�su�to�ra�di�li�do�bro�vo�qa~�ki�{ta�bo�vi.�Iskre�no,�ja�ni�kad�ni�sam�znaoko�je�glav�ni�u�kom�{ta�bu,�osim�one�u�mo�joj�op�{ti�ni.

–�Ka�ko�ste�ko�mu�ni�ci�ra�li�kad�tre�ba�na�front?–�Jed�no�stav�no.�Uvek�su�oni�zva�li�me�ne�na�te�le�fon,�a�ja�sam�bio�u�ve�zi�sa

{ta�bo�vi�ma�VRS�i�VK.�Ta�ko�smo�zna�li�{ta�da�~i�ni�mo.–�A�[e�{eq?–�Tvr�dim�da�je�ovaj�na�~in�ra�da�bio�naj�~e�{}i,�a�to�ne�ma�ve�ze�sa�wim.–�Is�pa�de�da�ste�vi�glav�ni,�a�ne�[e�{eq.–�Ovo�je�isti�na�{to�pri�~am,�a�ako�mi�vi�ne�ve�ru�je�te�–�{ta�vam�mo�gu.–�Da�li�je�Kra�ji�{nik,�po�va�ma,�ne�vin?–�Je�ste.–�Da�li�je�Ra�do�van�Ka�rayi}�zlo�~i�nac?–�Ni�je.–�Da�li�bi�ste�vo�le�li�da�se�uhva�ti�Mla�di}?�Da�zna�te�gde�je,�bi�li�re�kli?–�Ne.�Ne.�Ne.–�[ta�vi�vi�di�te�u�Ka�rayi}u?–�Si�no�nim�ot�po�ra�slo�bo�de�Srp�skog�na�ro�da.�Da�ni�je�bi�lo�we�ga,�[e�{e�qa,

Mla�di�}a�i�ne�kih�dru�gih,�ovaj�gra�|an�ski�rat�na�tlu�biv�{e�SFRJ�bio�bi�po�gu�-ban�za�srp�ski�na�rod.

–�Ka�ko�mi�sli�te�da�ni�je�bi�lo�[e�{e�qa?–�Jed�no�stav�no,�sa�ve�to�vao�je�na�rod�da�ne�~e�ka�kla�we�kao�1941.�go�di�ne,�ne�go

da�se�bo�ri,�da�usta�{a�ma�ne�tre�ba�ve�ro�va�ti.–�Do�bro.�Vo�li�te�li�da�se�uhap�se�i�Mla�di}�i�Ka�rayi}?–�Ne.�Ako�Bog�da,�to�ni�ka�da�ne�}e�te�us�pe�ti.–�Je�su�li�oni,�po�va�ma,�zlo�~in�ci?–�Ni�su.�Pa�zar�je�zlo�~in�bra�ni�ti�svoj�na�rod?�O�~e�mu�mi�pri�~a�mo,�go�spo�-

di�ne�Pa�o�lo?�Ne�znam�ka�kav�vi�zlo�~in�go�ni�te,�ali�o~i�gled�no�vam�je�`e�qa�dapro�gla�si�te�ce�lu�Srp�sku�na�ci�ju�zlo�~i�na~�kom.�Za�{to�su�En�gle�zi�ra�to�va�li�naFo�klan�di�ma?�Za�{to�NA�TO�ov�de�u�Sr�bi�ji?�A�vi�ste�u~e�stvo�va�li�u�Bqe�sku�iOlu�ji.�Je�li�ta�ko,�Pa�o�lo?

–�Vi�opet�na�ma�od�u�zi�ma�te�vre�me,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u?–�Ne�od�u�zi�mam.�Sa�mo�od�go�va�ram�na�va�{a�pro�vo�ka�tiv�na�pi�ta�wa.�A�si�gu�-

ran�sam�da�ne�gde�i�sni�ma�te�ovaj�raz�go�vor,�ma�da�vi�tvr�di�te�da�to�ne�ra�di�te.–�Iz�gle�da�da�}e�mo�mo�ra�ti�za�vr�{i�ti�in�ter�vju.�Vi�po�sta�je�te�sve�go�ri.–�Ko�po�sta�je�sve�go�ri?–�Vi,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u.�Spre�~i�li�ste�me�u�is�pi�ti�va�wu.�Ne�po�treb�no�ste

99

Page 100: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

nam�od�u�ze�li�sil�no�vre�me.�Ja�mo�ram�po�sla�ti�iz�ve�{taj�i�bi�ti�su�tra�u�Ha�gu.–�[to�se�me�ne�ti�~e,�kre�ni�te�od�mah.�Ko�vas�spre�~a�va?–�Vi�me�spre�~a�va�te,�po�{to�na�pi�ta�wa�ne�od�go�va�ra�te�krat�ko�sa�’da’�i�’ne’.–�Od�go�va�ram�ona�ko�ka�ko�znam.–�Ipak,�pi�{e�te�be�le�{ke.�Je�ste�li�sve�upi�sa�li?–�Moj�pro�blem.–�Do�bro�pam�ti�te?–�Za�sa�da.�A�{ta�ov�de�i�tre�ba�da�se�pam�ti?�Op�tu�̀ u�je�se�ko�lek�tiv�no�srp�-

ski�na�rod�za�zlo�~in.–�To�je�va�{e�mi�{qe�we,�Osto�ji�}u.–�Ne.�Ta�ko�vi�mi�sli�te.�Sa�da�tra�̀ i�te�do�ka�ze�za�to,�a�ne�ma�te�ih.–�Je�li�me�sto�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}u�u�Ha�gu?–�Ni�je.�We�mu,�ako�ko�tre�ba�da�su�di,�to�je�ovaj�na�rod,�a�ne�vi�u�Ha�gu.–�Ka�ko�to�mi�sli�te?–�Evo�ka�ko:�ko�je�ko�ga�na�pao?�Mi�lo�{e�vi}�vas�ili�vi�we�ga?�Ko�je�raz�bio

SFRJ�–�Slo�ve�ni�ja,�Hr�vat�ska,�BiH,�Ma�ke�do�ni�ja�ili�Sr�bi�ja?�Ko�li�ko�ste�osu�-di�li�Jan�{u�i�dru�{tvo�{to�je�ubi�jao�mla�de�voj�ni�ke?�Gde�su�zlo�~in�ci�iz�Spli�-ta,�Tu�zle,�Sa�ra�je�va,�Osi�je�ka,�Bje�lo�va�ra,�svi�zlo�~in�ci�ko�ji�su�ubi�ja�li�ne�vi�nevoj�ni�ke,� pre�te�̀ no�Sr�be?�Da�li� je� za�to�kriv�Mi�lo�{e�vi},�{to� se�ras�pa�laSFRJ?�Ne�ma�te�vi�pra�va�da�su�di�te�bi�lo�ko�ga�dok�se�ne�do�ka�̀ e�zlo�~in.�[to�seti�~e�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,�on�od�go�va�ra�za�svo�ja�de�la�kao�i�sva�ki�po�je�di�nac,�ali�zlo�-~i�ne�ni�su�~i�ni�li�sa�mo�Sr�bi,�ka�ko�vi�tvr�di�te.�Da�le�ko�ve�}e�zlo�~i�ne�vr�{i�lisu�Slo�ven�ci,�Hr�va�ti,�mu�sli�ma�ni,�a�vi�se�sta�vqa�te�u�wi�ho�vu�od�bra�nu.�To�{tovi�~i�ni�te�je�pri�kri�va�we�zlo�~i�na.�Je�li�ta�ko,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo?

–�Okej.�Okej.�Sa�va�ma�je�na�mo�men�te�ja�ko�te�{ko�raz�go�va�ra�ti.–�Ne�ve�ru�jem.�Ako�vi�ta�ko�mi�sli�te,�to�mi�je�dra�go.–�Da�li�je�po�va�ma�Ra�do�van�Ka�rayi}�u�pra�vu?–�Da.�Je�ste.–�Da�li�je�on�zlo�~i�nac?–�Po�mom�zna�wu�–�ni�je.–�A�Mla�di}?�Vo�ji�slav�[e�{eq?–�Ni�je.–�Pa�ko�je?–�NA�TO�ali�jan�sa,�Hr�vat�ska,�mu�sli�ma�ni.–�Vi�ta�ko�za�i�sta�mi�sli�te?–�Da.–�Za�{to�ste�bom�bar�do�va�li�Sr�bi�ju?–�Ni�ste�vi�ov�de�da�po�sta�vqa�te�pi�ta�wa.–�U�re�du,�vi�pi�taj�te.�Vi�dim�da�vam�se�`u�ri.�^e�ka�Vas�put.�Mo�ra�te�pod�ne�-

ti�iz�ve�{taj.�Si�gur�no�ima�te�vi�so�ku�dnev�ni�cu,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�a�ov�de�ku�pu�je�-te�la�̀ i�od�bed�ni�ka�za�si�tan�no�vac�sa�mo�da�bi�ste�okri�vi�li�ko�ga�ste�re�{i�li.

–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�vi�vre�|a�te.–�Ne.�Sa�mo�go�vo�rim�ono�{to�mi�slim�i�znam.–�Mo�ra�}e�mo�se�vi�de�ti�opet?–�Ne�ve�ru�jem.–�Je�ste�li�vi�|a�li�Bi�qa�nu�Plav�{i}?

100

Page 101: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Da.–�Ko�li�ko�pu�ta?–�Jed�nom.–�Je�ste�li�raz�go�va�ra�li�sa�wom?–�Ne,�ona�mi�kao�po�li�ti�~ar,�a�i�we�ni�po�li�ti~�ki�sta�vo�vi,�uop�{te�ni�su�od�-

go�va�ra�li.�Ni�je�me�za�ni�ma�la.–�Ka�da�ste�zad�wi�put�bi�li�sa�Ka�rayi}em?–�Ve}�sam�re�kao:�1996-1997.�go�di�ne.–�Ka�da�ste�zad�wi�put�kon�tak�ti�ra�li�[e�{e�qa?–�Mi�slim�1996.�go�di�ne.–�A�To�mi�sla�va�Ni�ko�li�}a?–�Isto�ta�ko�–�ne�gde�1996-1997.�go�di�ne.–�Ka�da�ste�zad�wi�put�vi�de�li�Mla�di�}a?–�1994.�go�di�ne.–�Je�ste�li�se�su�sre�li�sa�wim?–�Da.–�Gde�ste�se�su�sre�li?–�Ne�gde�oko�Han�Pi�je�ska.–�Po�sle�to�ga�ga�ni�ste�vi�de�li?–�Ne.�Za�i�sta�ne.–�Je�li�hra�bar�kao�{to�se�pri�~a?–�Je�ste.�Pra�vi�srp�ski�ge�ne�ral.–�Da�li�je�isto�ta�ko�[e�{eq�hra�bar?–�[e�{eq�je�po�li�ti�~ar,�a�ne�rat�nik.�To�sam�vam�re�kao�par�pu�ta.�Mi�slim

da�je�kao�po�li�ti�~ar�hra�bar�na�po�li�ti~�kom�po�qu�isto�kao�Mla�di}�na�boj�nompo�qu.

–�A�Ni�ko�li}?–�To�pi�taj�te�we�ga?–�A�Vu�~i}?–�Go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�stal�no�po�na�vqa�te�pi�ta�wa.�Ot�kud�ja�znam�da�li�su�Vu�-

~i}�i�Ni�ko�li}�hra�bri�ili�ni�su?�Ja�ni�sam�du�go�u�po�li�ti�ci�i�ni�u�jed�noj�stran�-ci�da�bi�znao�ka�kvi�su�oni.�Ipak,�Vi�to�mo�̀ e�te�sa�zna�ti.

–�Ka�ko?–�Pi�taj�te�wih.�Tu�su�u�Be�o�gra�du.�Ne�pla�{i�te�se�vaq�da�wih�dvo�ji�ce?�Ja

znam�to�li�ko�da�su�ko�mu�ni�ka�tiv�ni.–�Okej.�Okej.�A�Ma�ja�Goj�ko�vi},�gra�do�na�~el�nik?–�Da.�No�vog�Sa�da.–�Je�li�to�do�bro,�po�va�ma?–�Da�do�bro�je.�Po�be�di�}e�na�iz�bo�ri�ma.�Mi�slim�da�je�Ma�ja�spo�sob�na,�da�po�-

be�di.–�Go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u,�pre�kra�ja�ovog�in�ter�vjua�da�vam�ka�̀ em:�mi�slim�da

vi�ja�ko�gre�{i�te,�jer�ne�}e�te�do�voq�no�da�sa�ra�|u�je�te.�Vas�su�ra�di�ka�li�osta�vi�lina�ce�di�lu,�a�vi�o�wi�ma�sve�do�bro�go�vo�ri�te.

–�To�je�moj�i�wi�hov�pro�blem,�a�ne�va{.�Ne�mo�gu�za�ne�kog�re�}i�da�je�zao�akoni�je.

–�Bi�qa�nu�Plav�{i}�sla�bo�zna�te?�101

Page 102: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Re�kao�sam�vam.–�Jo{�da�vas�upi�tam:�ko�je�sve�pre�vo�zio�do�bro�voq�ce?–�Re�kao�sam�vam.�Ko�li�ko�pu�ta�da�po�no�vim?–�Okej.�Okej.�Da�pro�~i�tam�za�pi�snik?–�^i�taj,�da�bog�da�ga�ni�kad�ne�pro�~i�tao.�–�Mo�lim,�ne�{to�ste�re�kli?–�Ni�{ta.�Ka�̀ em,�~i�taj�i�kad�ga�ne�pro�~i�tao.�Od�ku�da�znam�{ta�~i�ta{�i

da�li�}e�te�sve�pro�~i�ta�ti�{ta�ste�na�pi�sa�li,�na�en�gle�skom?Pre�vo�di�teq�ka�je�po�~e�la�da�pre�vo�di�ono�{to�je�~i�tao.�Ja�sam�po�~eo�da�se

sme�jem.�Po�seb�no�sam�se�na�sme�jao�ka�da�me�je�pi�tao:–�Ima�te�li�pri�med�bi?Od�go�vo�rio�sam�–�da.–�Gde,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u?–�Na�ceo�za�pi�snik.–�Ka�ko?–�Vi�di�te�li�{ta�ra�di�te?�Ot�ku�da�znam�{ta�ste�sve�na�pi�sa�li.�Na�pi�sa�li�ste

oko�~e�tr�na�est�li�sto�va,�a�sve�pro�~i�ta�li�za�dva�do�tri�mi�nu�ta,�za�jed�no�sa�pre�-vo�dom.�Li~�no�ne�mo�gu�da�pro�~i�tam,�jer�pi�{e�na�en�gle�skom.�Tra�̀ im�da�gle�damza�pi�snik�i�da�pre�vo�di�lac�~i�ta�i�pre�vo�di�re~�po�re~.

–�To�ne�mo�̀ e.–�Zna�~i:�mo�̀ e�ka�ko�vi�to�ho�}e�te�i�̀ e�li�te�i�da�na�me�sti�te�ka�ko�ho�}e�te,�da

ra�di�te�{ta�ho�}e�te�od�nas.�Mi�smo�za�vas�di�vqa~�i�ni�{ta�vi�{e.�Bez�pra�va�na`i�vot�i�od�bra�nu�se�be�i�svo�je�po�ro�di�ce,�o�Sr�bi�ji�i�srp�skom�na�ro�du�da�ne�pri�-~am.�Ovo�{to�ste�vi�ov�de�ura�di�li�ovih�par�da�na�je�rav�no�ubi�stvu�qud�skih�pra�-va�i�de�mo�kra�ti�je,�pa�se�sa�da�pi�tam:�je�li�to�ta�de�mo�kra�ti�ja�o�ko�joj�vi�ta�ko�na�-{i�ro�ko�pi�{e�te�i�spro�vo�di�te�je?�To�je�dik�ta�tu�ra,�a�ne�de�mo�kra�ti�ja.�Vi�ni�steni�vi�de�li�de�mo�kra�te.�Mo�̀ da�ste�tu�na�pi�sa�li�hi�qa�du�ne�ta~�nih�stva�ri.�Ka�koja�to�da�znam?

–�Mo�ra�}e�te�pot�pi�sa�ti.–�Da,�to�je�de�mo�krat�ski.–�Ima�te�li�pri�med�bi�na�za�pi�snik?–�Da.�Mi�slim�da�je�sve�{to�ste�tu�na�pi�sa�li�95�odsto�la�̀ no,�a�mo�̀ da�je

pro�ce�nat�i�ve�}i.–�Ima�te�li�pri�med�bi?–�Imam.–�Re�ci�te�ko�je�ima�te�i�na�ko�ji�deo�za�pi�sni�ka.–�Ka�ko�da�ka�̀ em�ka�da�ne�znam�{ta�ste�pi�sa�li,�~o�ve�~e.–�Ja�tu�ne�mo�gu�ni�{ta,�go�spo�di�ne�Osto�ji�}u.�–�Mo�gu�ja,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo.–�[ta�vi�mo�̀ e�te?–�Po�na�vqam�vam�da�}u�obe�lo�da�ni�ti�Va{�na�~in�i�si�stem�ra�da�ko�ji�je�vi�-

{e�od�bi�lo�kog�zlo�~i�na.�Ovo�je�ne�ve�ro�vat�no�ka�ko�po�stu�pa�te�sa�va�{im�po�ten�-ci�jal�nim�ha�{kim�sve�do�kom.�Ka�ko�li�ste�po�stu�pa�li�sa�dru�gi�ma�–�mo�gu�sa�mo�daza�mi�slim.�

–�Ima�te�pri�med�bi�na�za�pi�snik?–�Da.�U�ce�lo�sti�ga�ne�pri�hva�tam.

102

Page 103: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Zna�~i�ima�te.–�Nor�mal�no�da�imam.�Ne�znam�ni�{ta�ste�~i�ta�li,�ni�ti�{ta�je�ova�go�spo�-

|a�pre�vo�di�la.Po�tom�su�mi�re�kli�da�idu�da�ko�pi�ra�ju�za�pi�snik.�Ka�da�su�sve�is�ko�pi�ra�li,

po�zva�li�su�me�da�ga�pot�pi�{em.�Ja�sam�za�vre�me�ko�pi�ra�wa�bio�u�so�bi�za�is�pi�-ti�va�wa,�jer�mi�ni�su�do�zvo�li�li�da�bu�dem�pri�su�tan�ko�pi�ra�wu.

–�Pot�pi�{i�te�se�ov�de.–�Ne�}u�ja�ni�{ta�pot�pi�si�va�ti,�jer�ne�znam�{ta�ste�sve�tu�na�pi�sa�li.–�Ne�mo�̀ e�te�oti�}i�dok�se�ne�pot�pi�{e�te.�Pot�pi�sao�sam�je�dan�list,�a�on�sve�osta�le�sa�ini�ci�ja�li�ma�JO.�’Mo�gao�si�i

taj�je�dan�sam�pot�pi�sa�ti’�–�po�mi�slio�sam.–�Sad�pot�pi�{i�no�vac.–�Re�kao�sam�da�mi�taj�no�vac�ne�tre�ba.–�Mo�ra�te�uze�ti�i�pot�pi�sa�ti�se.�Pot�pi�sao�sam,�ka�̀ e,�za�nu�̀ ne�tro�{ko�ve�250�evra.Pu�sti�li�su�me�sa�te�ri�to�ri�je�UN-Ho�lan�di�je,�ka�ko�su�mi�ra�ni�je�ob�ja�sni�li

da�je�to�ta�zgra�da,�a�ja�sam�iza�{ao�na�te�ri�to�ri�ju�Sr�bi�je�i�oti�{ao�pra�vo�ku�}i.Imao�sam�ose�}aj�da�me�ne�ko�ce�lo�vre�me�pra�ti,�ali�to�ne�mo�ra�bi�ti�ta~�no.

Dva de set da na ka sni je–�Ha�lo!–�Da,�iz�vo�li�te.�^uo�se�ne�ki�`en�ski�glas.–�Je�li�to�go�spo�din�Jo�vo�Osto�ji}?�–�Je�ste.–�Ov�de�pre�vo�di�teq�ka�iz�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la.�Do�bi�la�sam�na�log�od�Pa�o�la

Pa�sto�rea�da�vas�kon�tak�ti�ram�i�pi�tam�ka�ko�ste,�ima�te�li�pro�ble�ma�i�da�li�vasne�ko�uz�ne�mi�ra�va?

–�Hva�la�mu�na�to�li�koj�bri�zi.�Ni�ko�me�ne�di�ra�ni�ti�ko�ga�in�te�re�su�je�mojraz�go�vor�sa�wim.

–�Re�kao�je�da�vas�pi�tam�{ta�tra�̀ i�te�da�sve�do�~i�te.–�Re�ci�te�mu�da�tra�̀ im�da�mi�se�po�ro�di�ca�sklo�ni�u�Ka�na�du�i�da�ja�on�da�jav�-

no�sve�do�~im.�Ne�ka�mi�ka�̀ e�ka�da�da�do�|em�u�Be�o�grad.–�Do�bro.�Pre�ne�}u�mu.�A�ova�ko�ste�do�bro?�–�Ka�ko�da�ne,�kad�imam�ta�ko�ja�ko�obez�be�|e�we�iz�Ho�lan�di�je.–�Do�vi�|e�wa.�–�Do�vi�|e�wa.

25. oktobar 2002. go di neTe�le�fon�je�za�zvo�nio.–�Ha�lo,�ov�de�Mi�lan.�Tre�ba�vas�is�tra�̀ i�teq�Pa�sto�re.–�Ha�lo,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u.–�Da,�iz�vo�li�te.–�Ja�bih�do�{ao�u�Be�o�grad�8.�11.�2002.�u�ve�zi�va�{eg�pred�lo�ga�da�sve�do�~i�te,

a�da�vam�po�ro�di�ca�bu�de�sklo�we�na�u�ne�ku�od�ze�ma�qa�ko�ju�vam�mi�po�nu�di�mo.�Po�-red�Ka�na�de,�ko�ju�bi�ste�jo{�ze�mqu�`e�le�li?�

–�Austra�li�ja,�Nor�ve�{ka,�Fran�cu�ska,�Ita�li�ja,�[pa�ni�ja.103

Page 104: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Do�bro,�okej.�Ja�}u�po�ne�ti�pred�log,�pa�se�vi�di�mo�8.�11.�2002.�go�di�ne�u�9�~a�-so�va.

–�Ja�ne�}u�do�}i�u�Be�o�grad�8.�jer�mi�je�sla�va�–�Mi�trov�dan.–�Opro�sti�te,�~e�sti�ta�mo�sla�vu�a�mo�̀ e�li�15.�11.�2002.�go�di�ne.–�Mo�̀ e.Ta�ko�sam�i�do�{ao�15.�11.�2002.�go�di�ne�u�Be�o�grad�i�sa�stao�se�na�te�ri�to�ri�ji

UN�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�sa�sud�skim�is�tra�̀ i�te�qem�Pa�o�lom�Pa�sto�reom�Sto�hi�-jem.

–�Krat�ko�}e�mo�raz�go�va�ra�ti,�okej?–�Do�bro.–�Tri�bu�nal�za�ni�ma�{ta�vi�to�na�ma�nu�di�te?�Ka�kve�po�dat�ke,�da�bi�oni�vas

i�va�{u�po�ro�di�cu�sklo�ni�li�u�ne�ku�od�ze�ma�qa�ko�je�ste�na�ve�li.�I�da�vam�ka�̀ emda�se�za�sa�da�vi�so�ko�ko�ti�ra�te�u�Tri�bu�na�lu.

–�Opet�vi�o�ko�ti�ra�wu.�Ko�me�to�ta�ko�vi�so�ko�is�ko�ti�rao?–�Ni�je�bit�no.–�Sve�je�bit�no.�Da�ni�ste�mo�̀ da�vi?–�Ne�moj�mo�o�to�me.�Ne�go�da�vi�na�ma�sve�is�pri�~a�te�i�da�te�do�ku�men�ta,�pa�}e

na�osno�vu�tih�va�{ih�do�ka�za�Tri�bu�nal�pro�ce�ni�ti�vred�nost�tih�sve�do�~e�wa�i�uko�ju�}e�te�ze�mqu�da�ide�te.

–�E,�od�tog�po�sla�ne�ma�ni�{ta,�Pa�o�lo�Pa�sto�re.�Tri�bu�nal�vam�ne�ve�ru�je,�avi�bi�ste�da�me�ne�pre�va�ri�te.�E,�ta�ko�ne�mo�̀ e.�Raz�go�vor�smo�za�vr�{i�li.

–�Ja�}u�vas�na�zva�ti�iz�Ha�ga.–�Do�bro,�na�zo�vi�te.

Ne gde 25. novembar 2002. go di nePo�obi�~a�ju,�te�le�fo�nom�me�na�zvao�Mi�lan.�Ha�lo,�ov�de�Mi�lan.–�Ov�de�Jo�vo�Osto�ji}.–�Ja�sam�pre�vo�di�lac�iz�Ha�ga.�Tre�ba�vas�Pa�sto�re�Sto�hi.–�Ka�ko�ste,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u?–�Do�bro.�[to�me�zo�ve�te?–�Je�li�vas�ne�ko�uz�ne�mi�ra�vao?–�Da.–�Ko�je�to?–�Vi,�Pa�o�lo�Sto�hi.�Vi�me�uz�ne�mi�ra�va�te�ve}�do�bra�dva-tri�me�se�ca.�Osta�-

vi�te�me�ve}�jed�nom,�~o�ve�~e.–�Pa�ho�}e�te�li�u�Austra�li�ju?–�Ma�ka�kva�Austra�li�ja,�ka�kva�Ka�na�da?�Vi�ste�na�iv�ni.�Ne�idem�nig�de�i�ne�-

mam�na�me�re.�Ho�}e�te�da�oba�vi�mo�jo{�je�dan�raz�go�vor�u�Be�o�gra�du?–�Ne.–�Za�{to?–�Ne�za�ni�ma�te�me�vi�{e.�Ume�sto�da�vi�is�pi�ta�te�me�ne,�ja�sam�is�pi�tao�vas�i

ot�krio�ko�ste.–�[ta�ste�to�ot�kri�li?–�Ot�krio�sam�da�is�kqu�~i�vo�ra�di�te�pro�tiv�Sr�ba.�Da�vas�isti�na�ne�in�te�-

re�su�je.�Za�stu�pa�te�i�bra�ni�te�Hr�va�te.�Je�li�ta�ko?–�Ko�ste�vi�da�me�ne�is�pi�tu�je�te?

104

Page 105: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

–�Ja�sam�za�vas�i�va�{e�voj�vo�da.�A�zna�te�li�{ta�ste�vi�za�me�ne?–�[ta?–Pre�va�rant�i�la�̀ ov.�Vi�la�̀ e�te�od�sa�mog�po�~et�ka.�Ho�}e�te�me�ne�na�ta�-

nak�led�da�na�ve�de�te.�Ka�ko�ni�ste�shva�ti�li�iz�to�li�kog�raz�go�vo�ra�da�ja�vo�limsvo�ju�ze�mqu�i�ni�sam�spre�man�da�je�iz�da�jem�i�pro�da�jem�ta�kvim�be�lo�svet�skim{u�{a�ma?

–�Vi�ste,�mi�ster�Osto�ji�}u,�od�bi�li�raz�go�vor�sa�dr�Art�man.–�Ja�ne�raz�go�va�ram�sa�bi�lo�kim.�Sa�va�ma�sam�na�mer�no�raz�go�va�rao,�jer�sam

~uo�da�ste�opa�sni.�Za�kqu�~io�sam�ko�ste�i�ko�li�ko�ste�opa�sni.–�Upam�ti�}e{�ti�me�ne.–�Ja�sam�te�be�ve}�upam�tio,�Pa�o�lo.�Ve�o�ma�si�sklon�la�̀ i�ma,�sram�te�bi�lo.

Me�ne�ni�ka�da�ni�su�in�te�re�so�va�le�te�va�{e�ze�mqe�na�na�~i�ne�ko�ji�si�mi�ti�nu�dio.Pu�stio�sam�te�do�kra�ja,�Pa�o�lo.�Ule�teo�si�u�mre�̀ u.�Sa�da�ho�}e{�pred�Tri�bu�na�-lom�da�se�is�pra�vi{,�ali�ne�mo�̀ e{.�Ne�ma{�kud.

–�Upam�ti�}e{�ti�me�ne�i�sa�kim�si�se�po�i�grao.�Do�}i�}e{�ti�u�Hag�`iv�ilimr�tav.

–�Vi�to�me�ni�pre�ti�te,�go�spo�di�ne�Pa�o�lo,�da�}e�te�me�ubi�ti?�Vi�de�}e�mo�mito.�Jo{�si�ti�su�vi�{e�slab�za�ta�ko�ne�{to.�Ot�kud�da�jed�na�me�|u�na�rod�na�in�sti�-tu�ci�ja�sme�da�se�ta�ko�po�na�{a�i�jo{�jav�no�pre�ti?�Ko�si�ti�da�mi�pre�ti{�i�u�~i�-je�ime�ti�to�ra�di{,�Pa�o�lo?

–�Vi�de�}e{�ti�ko�je�Pa�o�lo.�Do�}i�}e{�ti�u�Hag.�I�da�zna{:�rej�ting�ti�je�paou�Ha�gu.�Sa�da�se�dru�ga�~i�je�tre�ti�ra{.

–�Tre�ti�raj�{ta�ho�}e{�i�ko�ga�ho�}e{,�ali�me�ne�ne�}e{.�Ni�si�iz�dr�̀ ao,�pu�-kli�su�ti�ner�vi.�Mo�ra{�to�da�pri�zna{�se�bi,�ako�ne�}e{�me�ni.

–�Zna{�li�ti�{ta�}u�da�ti�ura�dim�kad�do�|e{�u�Hag?�Za�tvo�ri�}u�te�u�jed�numa�lu�so�bu�sa�sto�re�flek�to�ra,�a�ti�}e{�bi�ti�ve�zan�za�sto�li�cu�i�ta�ko�da�ni�ma.Upam�ti�}e{�ti�Hag�i�me�ne,�je�l’�ti�ja�sno?

–�Znao�sam�da�si�ta�kav.�Sad�si�se�po�ka�zao�u�ori�gi�na�lu.�Ove�tvo�je�pret�weja�}u�da�ob�ja�vim�i�na�pi�{em�kra�tak�ro�man,�pri�~u,�ni�je�bit�no�{ta,�da�bih�se�od�-bra�nio�od�te�be,�pa�ne�ka�Ha�{ki�tri�bu�nal�pre�su�di.�To�{to�ti�ra�di{�–�da�li�jepo�stu�pak�is�tra�ge�ili�ra�|a�we�no�vog�zlo�~i�na�ko�ji�ti�li~�no�`e�li{�da�iz�vr�-{i{�na�da�m�nom?�Nad�pot�pu�no�ne�vi�nim�~o�ve�kom.�Ja�ni�sam�kao�ti�da�pro�gla�-sim�ne�kog�kri�vim�ako�to�ni�je,�kao�{to�se�u�ovom�slu�~a�ju�ra�di�o�dr�Vo�ji�sla�vu[e�{e�qu.�Ako�ja�tre�ba�da�stra�dam�zbog�we�ga,�u~i�ni�}e�mi�to�po�seb�nu�~ast.�

–�Upam�ti�}e{�ti�me�ne.�Pro�}i�}e{�kao�Dok�ma�no�vi}.�Ne�}e{�se�̀ iv�vra�ti�-ti.�

–�A�ka�ko�je�to�pro�{ao�Dok�ma�no�vi}?�–�Obe�sio�se.”

No vin ski ~lan ci

O�sklo�no�sti�ma�Kar�le�del�Pon�te�da�obez�be�|u�je�za�{ti�}e�ne�sve�do�ke�i�da�ihka�sni�je�pred�sta�vqa�jav�no�sti�ka�da�su�u�pi�ta�wu�po�we�nom�mi�{qe�wu�na�vod�no�vi�-{i�i�ko�ri�sto�qu�bi�vi�in�te�re�si�naj�u�pe�~a�tqi�vi�je�sve�do�~i�i�deo�kwi�ge�Jir�ge�naEl�ze�se�ra�pod�na�slo�vom�“Rat�ne�la�̀ i”�ko�ja�je�iz�da�ta�za�“Ja�sen”,�Be�o�grad,�2004.go�di�ne.

105

Page 106: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

“Kar�la�del�Pon�te�i�al�ban�ska�ma�fi�ja�In�ter�vju�s�Fe�li�pe�om�Tu�ro�ve�rom,�ko�ji�vo�di�pro�ces�pro�tiv�glav�ne�ha�{ke

tu�̀ i�teq�keTrideset�sedmogo�di�{wi�Tu�ro�ver�po�ti�~e�iz�jed�ne�re�pu�bli�kan�ske�{pan�-

ske�po�ro�di�ce,�a�we�go�vi�ro�di�te�qi�su�s�wim�po�be�gli�pred�Fran�kom�u�So�vjet�skiSa�vez.�Po�sle�smr�ti�dik�ta�to�ra,�Tu�ro�ver�se�vra�tio�u�svo�ju�rod�nu�ze�mqu,�da�bion�da�kra�jem�osam�de�se�tih�go�di�na,�kao�stru~�wak�za�fi�nan�si�je,�po�no�vo�sa�ra�|i�-vao�u�Mo�skvi�na�pro�gra�mu�pe�re�stroj�ke.�Ra�dio�je�od�1992.�do�1999.�godine�za�Jeq�-ci�no�vu�vla�du�u�pre�go�vo�ri�ma�o�du�go�vi�ma�sa�za�pad�nim�ban�ka�ma�po�ve�ri�o�ci�ma.�

El ze ser:Vi�ste�glav�ni�sve�dok�ko�ji�te�re�ti�u�afe�ri�Ma�be�teks,�ko�ja�je�po�-sta�la�po�zna�ta�i�kao�Ru�si�ja-gejt.�O�~e�mu�je�tu�re~,�i�ka�kve�ve�ze�s�tim�ima�Kar�-la�del�Pon�te?�

Tu ro ver:Ma�be�teks�je�gra�|e�vin�ska�fir�ma�sa�se�di�{tem�u�Lu�ga�nu�u�ita�li�-jan�skom�de�lu�[vaj�car�ske.�Ona�pri�pa�da�ko�sov�skom�Al�ban�cu�Beyetu�Pa�co�li�ju,ko�ji�je�u�me�|u�vre�me�nu�do�bio�{vaj�car�ski�pa�so{.�Pa�co�li�i�we�gov�po�slov�nipar�ter�Vik�tor�Stol�pov�ski�do�bi�li�su�de�ve�de�se�tih�go�di�na�na�lo�ge�iz�Kre�mqau�vi�si�ni�od�ot�pri�li�ke�dve�mi�li�jar�de�evra,�ve�ro�vat�no�su�bi�li�po�sre�di�ra�do�vina�iz�grad�wi�i�sa�na�ci�ji�u�vla�di�nom�i�pre�sed�ni~�kom�kom�plek�su.�Do�ka�za�no�su�uve�zi�sa�ovim�iz�Ru�si�je�i{�~e�zle�svo�te�u�vi�si�ni�od�vi�{e�mi�li�jar�di�do�la�ra,�a�za�-uz�vrat�je�kri�jum�~a�re�nim�nov�cem�u�mi�li�on�skoj�vi�si�ni�pla�}a�no�Mo�skvi.�Pa�co�-li�je�jam�~io�za�kre�dit�ne�kar�ti�ce�Jeq�ci�na�i�obe�Jeq�ci�no�ve�k}e�ri,�to�je�po�tvr�-di�la�Ban�ka�del�Go�tar�do,�ko�ja�je�iz�da�la�kar�ti�ce.

Kar�la�del�Pon�te,�ta�da�{vaj�car�ska�glav�na�tu�̀ i�teq�ka,�stu�pi�la�je�sa�mnomu�kon�takt�1997.�go�di�ne�i�na�lo�̀ i�la�mi�da�sto�jim�na�ras�po�la�ga�wu�kao�sve�dok�utoj�stva�ri.�Ka�sni�je�je�u�[vaj�car�sku�po�zva�la�ru�skog�ge�ne�ral�nog�dr�̀ av�nog�tu�-`i�o�ca�Ju�ri�ja�Sku�ra�to�va,�ko�ji�je�vr�{io�is�tra�gu,�i�upo�zna�la�me�s�wim.�Ona�jeta�da�jo{�va�̀ i�la�kao�ve�li�ki�bo�rac�za�prav�du,�zbog�~e�ga�sam�joj�usli�{io�`e�qu.To�je�bi�la�bez�ma�lo�smr�to�no�sna�gre�{ka.

El ze ser: Za�{to?Tu ro ver: Bio�sam�upu�}i�van�na�~e�sti�tost�i�Del�Pon�te�je�od�po�~et�ka�upu�-

zo�ra�va�la�na�to�da�me�mo�ja�iz�ja�va�do�vo�di�u�̀ i�vot�nu�opa�snost.�Ko�na~�no,�ta�da�samjo{�ra�dio�kao�sa�vet�nik�za�ru�ski�dr�̀ av�ni�vrh�–�da�kle,�upra�vo�za�qu�de�ko�je�saovim�do�ku�men�ti�ma�te�{ko�te�re�tio.�Ali,�{ta�je�u~i�ni�la�go�spo�|a�Del�Pon�te?Ona�je�da�la�{tam�pi�mo�je�pu�no�ime�i�mo�ju�funk�ci�ju.�To�je�kao�da�sam�iz�Me�de�-qi�na�ame�ri~�koj�po�li�ci�ji�za�dro�ge�pru�̀ io�in�for�ma�ci�je�o�Esko�ba�ro�vom�kla�-nu,�a�on�da�da,�dok�sam�jo{�u�pe�}i�ni�s�la�vo�vi�ma,�u�’Wu�jork�taj�msu’�pro�~i�tam�svo�-je�ime�kao�krun�skog�sve�do�ka�pro�tiv�Esko�ba�ra.�U�mom�slu�~a�ju�to�ni�je�bio�Me�-de�qin,�ne�go�Mo�skva,�a�no�vi�ne�su�bi�le�’Ko�ri�je�ra�de�la�se�ra’,�ali�je�u~i�nak�bioisti:�bio�sam�naj�u�ren�i�sa�mo�sam�hit�nim�bek�stvom�iz�Mo�skve�mo�gao�da�spa�semsvoj�`i�vot.�Od�ta�da,�to�kom�ove�tri�go�di�ne,�`i�vim�po�taj�no.�Za�to�se�za�hva�qu�-jem�Kar�li�del�Pon�te.�Ona�je�ubi�ca�ma�po�ka�za�la�put�do�me�ne.

El ze ser: Zar�to�ni�je�obil�no�pre�te�ra�no?�[ta�mo�̀ e�jed�na�{vaj�car�ska�sa�-ve�zna�tu�̀ i�teq�ka�za�~la�nak�u�ita�li�jan�skom�dnev�ni�ku?

Tu ro ver: Oba�no�vi�na�ra�’Ko�ri�je�rea’�do�bi�la�su�sve�in�for�ma�ci�je�od�DelPo�te�o�ve,�ukqu�~u�ju�}i�moj�broj�mo�bil�nog�te�le�fo�na.�

El ze ser: Da�li�je�ko�sov�sko�al�ban�ski�no�vac�za�pod�mi�}i�va�we�tre�ba�lo�da�bu�-106

Page 107: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

de�upla�}en�Jeq�ci�ni�vom�kla�nu,�to�mo�̀ e�raz�ja�sni�ti�po�na�{a�we�ru�skog�pred�sed�-ni�ka�u�pro�le�}e�1999.�Ka�da�je�NA�TO�pri�pre�mio�rat�pro�tiv�Ju�go�sla�vi�je;�on�ni�-je�ni�pr�stom�mak�nuo�u�za�{ti�tu�na�vod�nog�brat�skog�na�ro�da�Sr�ba.�Na�kon�fe�re�-ci�ji�u�Ram�bu�jeu,�re�ci�mo,�ka�da�su�dr�̀ a�ve�NA�TO-a�kraj�we�jed�no�stra�no�agi�to�va�-le�u�ko�rist�Al�ba�na�ca,�Mo�skva�ni�je�pro�te�stvo�va�la,�iako�su�we�ni�di�plo�ma�tiza�jed�no�se�de�li�za�pre�go�va�ra~�kim�sto�lom.�Je�su�li�ko�sov�ski�Al�ban�ci�pla�ti�liJeq�ci�no�vo�}u�ta�we?

Tu ro ver: To�je�jed�ino�mo�gu�}e�ob�ja�{we�we.�U�ovim�pri�~a�ma�je�bi�lo�re�~i�osim�bi�o�zi�po�li�ti�ke,�pqa~�ke�i�pra�wa�nov�ca�u�ve�li�kom�sti�lu.

El ze ser: A�Del�Pon�te?Tu ro ver: Ce�lo�ku�pan�oba�ve�{taj�ni�po�stu�pak�u�[vaj�car�skoj�o�afe�ri�Ma�be�-

teks�sru�{en�je�po�li�ti~�ki�s�naj�vi�{eg�me�sta.�Jo{�vi�{e:�do�ka�zni�ma�te�ri�jal�ko�-ji�je�Del�Pon�te�do�bi�la�od�svog�ru�skog�ko�le�ge�po�slu�̀ bi�Sku�ra�to�va�na�~u�de�sanna�~in�je�za�vr�{io�kod�Pa�co�li�ja.�Taj�je�oba�ve�stio�svo�je�mo�skov�ske�pri�ja�te�qeJeq�ci�na�i�Bo�ro�di�na,�a�po�tom�je�Sku�ra�tov,�~a�stan�i�sru�~an�prav�nik,�li�{en�po�-lo�̀ a�ja�–�upr�kos�tri�ma�prak�ti~�no�jed�no�gla�snim�od�lu�ka�ma�ru�skog�se�na�ta�u�we�-go�vu�ko�rist.�Kraj�Sku�ra�to�va�je�ujed�no�bio�kraj�Mo�skov�ske�is�tra�ge�o�Ma�be�tek�-su�–�ovaj�po�sled�wi�po�stu�pak�je�ob�u�sta�vqen�u�de�cem�bru�2000.�godine.

El ze ser: Je�li�Del�Pon�te�o�va�de�lo�va�la�kao�za�{tit�ni�pa�tron�al�ban�ske�ma�-fi�je�ili�Jeq�ci�no�vog�kla�na?

Tu ro ver: Ni�jed�no�od�to�ga.�Ona�je�de�lo�va�la�sa�mo�u�svom�sop�stve�nom�in�te�-re�su.�Pre�ma�po�li�ti~�kim�ci�qe�vi�ma�je�pot�pu�no�rav�no�du�{na.�Uzmi�mo,�re�ci�mo,tre�nu�tak�ka�da�je�sa�svo�jim�sa�zna�wi�ma�o�Ma�be�tek�su,�ukqu�~u�ju�}i�i�mo�je�ime,�iza�-{la�u�jav�nost.�Kra�jem�av�gu�sta�1999.�godine.�To�pak�ni�je�bio�sa�mo�uda�rac�pro�-tiv�me�ne,�ne�go�i�pro�tiv�Jeq�ci�na.�Do�du�{e,�ka�sni�je�ni�je�da�qe�is�tra�̀ i�va�la,�alisu�u�tom�tre�nut�ku�we�na�ot�kri�}a�te�{ko�na�{ko�di�la�Jeq�ci�nu.�Pro�i�za�{ao�je,�ule�to�1999.�godine�spek�ta�ku�lar�ni�udar�ru�skih�elit�nih�je�di�ni�ca�na�Ko�so�vu:�po�-sle�pri�mir�ja�su�za�po�se�li�aero�drom�u�Pri�{ti�ni,�a�NA�TO�je�do�{ao�pre�ka�sno.Zbog�to�ga�je�go�to�vo�do�{lo�do�tre�}eg�svet�skog�ra�ta,�ka�ko�je�ta�da�re�kao�bri�tan�-ski�{ef�KFOR-a�Majkl�Yeks�on.�Mo�skva�se�koc�ka�la�nave�li�ko,�hte�la�je�sop�-stve�nu�zo�nu�za�po�se�da�wa�na�Ko�so�vu�ka�ko�bi�za�{ti�ti�la�Sr�be.�U�ovoj�su�tu�a�ci�jije�Jeq�cin�mo�rao�da�od�stu�pi.

Ta�da�{wa�mi�ni�star�ka�spoq�nih�po�slo�va�SAD�Ma�dlen�Ol�brajt,�da�kle,�u�ju�-lu�se�na�lon�don�skom�aero�dro�mu�Hi�trou�sre�}e�sa�Del�Pon�te�o�vom�i�ve�ro�vat�nojoj�to�raz�ja�{wa�va.�U�av�gu�stu�on�da�Del�Pon�te�sa�svo�jim�ot�kri�}i�ma�pro�tiv�Jeq�-ci�na�pre�ko�“Ko�ri�je�ra�de�la�se�ra”�ide�u�jav�nost,�a�sre�di�nom�sep�tem�bra�Ol�brajtu�jed�noj�iz�ja�vi�na�Si-En-Enu�pri�do�da�je�tvrd�we�o�ko�rup�ci�je�ru�ske�vla�de.�U�ovojsi�tu�a�ci�ji�Jeq�cin�mo�ra�da�se�bo�ji�po�stup�ka�opo�zi�va�i�kri�vi~�nog�go�we�wa.�Ras�-te�re�}e�we�mu�kra�jem�sep�tem�bra�do�no�se�dva�bom�ba�{ka�na�pa�da�u�Mo�skvi,�ko�ja�suna�vod�no�po�~i�ni�li�~e�~en�ski�te�ro�ri�sti.�Ru�ske�tru�pe�ula�ze�u�^e�~e�ni�ju�da�biskre�nu�le�jav�no�in�te�re�so�va�we�s�Ru�si�ja-gej�ta.

El ze ser: Je�li�u�ovoj�si�tu�a�ci�ji�Del�Pon�te�o�va�de�lo�va�la�kao�da�pri�ma�na�-lo�ge�iz�Va�{ing�to�na?

Tu ro ver: Ona�je�upra�vo�to�li�ko�ma�lo�pro�a�me�ri~�ki�ko�li�ko�i�pro�al�ban�skina�stro�je�na.�Ona�de�lu�je�u�{vaj�car�skom�in�te�re�su,�tj.�u�in�te�re�su�ma�fi�ja�{ke�po�-li�ti�ke�u�[vaj�car�skoj.

107

Page 108: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

El ze ser: To�mo�ra�te�bli�̀ e�ob�ja�sni�ti.Tu ro ver: [vaj�car�ska�i�{vaj�car�ske�ban�ke�̀ i�ve�uglav�nom�od�pra�wa�nov�ca.

Svi�dik�ta�to�ri�i�svi�ve�li�ki�kri�mi�nal�ci�ovog�sve�ta�ula�̀ u�svoj�pr�qa�vi�no�vacu�ovu�ze�mqu;�pre�sve�ga�se�kna�ton�Te�sin�upe�~a�tqi�vo�od�li�ku�je�ti�me�da�se�mi�li�-o�ni�iz�Ita�li�je�pre�ko�gra�ni�ce�do�no�se�na�pro�sto�u�ko�fe�ru�ili�u�pre�gra�di�za�ru�-ka�vi�ce.�Svi�po�li�ti�~a�ri�u�Te�si�nu�za�to�zna�ju,�svi�od�to�ga�pro�fi�ti�ra�ju.�A�DelPon�te�o�va�je�kao�dr�̀ av�na�tu�̀ i�teq�ka�kan�to�na�{ti�ti�la�ove�prak�se�jo{�preafe�re�Ma�be�teks�kra�jem�de�ve�de�se�tih�god�na.�Uzmi�te,�re�ci�mo,�slu�~aj�jed�nog�de�o�-ni�~ar�skog�dru�{tva�u�^i�ja�su,�pro�tiv�ko�jeg�se�vr�{i�la�is�tra�ga�zbog�pra�wa�nov�-ca�za�ita�li�jan�sku�ma�fi�ju�–�is�tra�ge�je�ob�u�sta�vi�la�ona.�Ali,�u�pr�vom�re�du�je�DelPon�te�na�stro�je�na�pro�del�pon�te�ov�ski.�Za�svo�ju�ka�ri�je�ru�bi�u~i�ni�la�sve,�pa�~akop�tu�̀ i�la�i�Yorya�V.�Bu�{a.�Kao�prav�ni�ca�je,�ina�~e,�ni�{ta�vi�lo.�Mo�̀ e�te�liza�mi�sli�ti�da�po�sle�mog�sa�zna�wa�o�we�nom�do�sa�da�{wem�̀ i�vot�nom�pu�tu�ni�je�do�-bi�la�ni�jed�nu�je�di�nu�op�tu�̀ bu?�Wen�je�di�ni�ta�le�nat�le�̀ i�u�sa�mo�pri�ka�zi�va�wu,u�sa�mo�pri�re�|i�va�wu�za�tr�̀ i�{te.

El ze ser: Wen�spo�ra�zum�s�Ol�braj�to�vom�se�u�sva�kom�slu�~a�ju�do�bro�pla�-}a.�Ma�lo�ka�sni�je�po�sta�la�je�glav�na�tu�̀ i�teq�ka�u�Ha�gu�–�na�pred�log�Va�{ing�-to�na.�’Ci�ri�{ki’Vel�tvo�he�~u�dio�se:�’Za�{to�su�Ame�ri�kan�ci�hte�li�da�ima�juwu�kao�na�sled�ni�cu�ne�u�god�ne�i�pre�vre�me�no�ot�pu�{te�ne�Lui�z�Ar�bur,�osta�jeza�go�net�ka.�Jer,�oni�ni�kad�ni�su�ta�ji�li�o�to�me�da�sud�sma�tra�ju�jed�nom�bes�ko�-ri�snom�oho�lo�{}u.’

Tu ro ver: Del�Pon�te�i�{vaj�car�ska�vla�da�po�mo�gli�su�Ol�braj�to�voj�i�za�to�je–�Ame�ri�ka�ci�su�~e�sti�ti�qu�di,�oni�pla�}a�ju�za�svo�je�na�ruybi�ne�–�na�gra�|e�na�po�-lo�̀ a�jem�u�Ha�gu.�I�ta�mo�se�Del�Pon�te�sjaj�no�pro�da�je.�Pritom�je�pro�ces�je�din�-stve�na�ka�ta�stro�fa.�Ona�u�ru�ka�ma�ne�ma�ba{�ni�{ta�pro�tiv�Mi�lo�{e�vi�}a,�de ju -re bi�on�mo�rao�od�mah�bi�ti�pu�{ten.�Ta�ko�se�Mi�lo�{e�vi},�ko�ji�je�i�sam�tek�je�-dan�ban�dit�i�va�ra�li�ca,�mo�̀ e�pred�sta�vqa�ti�kao�ne�du�̀ ni�pro�go�we�nik,�a�srp�-ski�na�ci�o�na�li�zam�u�za�ma�hu,�ka�ko�se�po�ka�za�lo�na�po�sled�wim�iz�bo�ri�ma.�Zar�uHa�gu�stvar�no�ne�zna�ju�da�je�{vaj�car�ska�vla�da�ob�u�sta�vi�la�jed�nu�za�seb�nu�is�tra�-gu�u�afe�ri�Del�Pon�te?�Ka�ko�glav�na�tu�̀ i�teq�ka�tri�bu�na�la�UN-a�za�rat�ne�zlo�-~i�ne�mo�̀ e�da�osta�ne�jed�na�go�spo�|a�ko�ja�je�i�sa�ma�pred�met�naj�vi�{ih�sud�skih�is�-tra�̀ i�va�wa�zbog�te�{kih�pre�stu�pa?

El ze ser: Vi�ste�u�mar�tu�2001.�pod�ne�li�pri�ja�vu�pro�tiv�Kar�le�del�Pon�te�ine�po�zna�tih,�iz�me�|u�osta�log,�zbog�uro�̀ a�va�wa�va�{eg�`i�vo�ta�i�po�ku�{a�ja�ubi�-stva�(ten ta to as sas si nio)�u�ve�zi�sa�Ru�si�ja-gej�tom.�Ali�je�{vaj�car�ski�sa�ve�zni�tu�-`i�lac�Va�len�tin�Ro�{a�her�od�bio�pri�ja�vu�pro�tiv�svo�je�pret�hod�ni�ce�u�slu�̀ bi.Ka�ko,�da�kle,�mo�̀ e�te�re�}i�da�je�u�to�ku�za�seb�na�is�tra�ga�pro�tiv�Del�Pon�te�o�ve?

Tu ro ver: Ro�{a�her� je�za�{ti�tio�Del�Pon�te�o�vu,�te�sam�ga�za�to�op�tu�̀ iozbog�po�vla�{}i�va�wa�u�we�nu�ko�rist,�a�ova�tu�̀ ba�je�ne�sa�mo�pri�hva�}e�na,�ne�go�uma�ju�2002.�godine�~ak�{vaj�car�ski�sa�ve�zni�sa�vet�po�sta�vio�za�seb�nog�is�tra�̀ i�o�-ca�Ar�tu�ra�Hu�blar�da,�ne�ka�da�{weg�glav�nog�dr�̀ av�nog�tu�̀ i�o�ca�kan�to�na�Ju�ra.On�is�tra�̀ u�je�mo�je�op�tu�̀ be�pro�tiv�Ro�{a�he�ra�–�ali�je�ti�me�i�stvar�Del�Pon�-te�o�ve�ko�na~�no�na�sto�lu.�Po�vrh�to�ga,�pro�tiv�[vaj�car�ske�sam�po�kre�nuo�tu�̀ bupred�Evrop�skim�su�dom�za�qud�ska�pra�va�u�Stra�zbu�ru.

El ze ser:Pro�tiv�[vaj�car�ske�–�a�ne�pro�tiv�Del�Pon�te�o�ve?Tu ro ver: U�Stra�zbu�ru�se�ne�mo�gu�op�tu�̀ i�ti�pri�vat�ne�oso�be.�Ali,�sa�dr�-

108

Page 109: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

`in�ski�se�tu�̀ ba�pre�sve�ga�usme�ra�va�pro�tiv�Del�Pon�te�o�ve,�jer�je�on�kao�dr�-

`av�ni�tu�̀ i�lac�[vaj�car�ske�do�ve�la�moj�`i�vot�u�pi�ta�we.�Ne�shva�tqi�vo�je�da

ona�i�da�qe�slu�̀ bu�je�u�Ha�gu�sve�dok�su�ta�kva�dva�po�stup�ka�na�su�du.

El ze ser:@i�ve�ti�skri�ve�ni�u�pod�ze�mqu�i�stal�no�me�wa�te�me�sto�bo�rav�ka.

Ko�li�ko�du�go�}e�te�to�iz�dr�̀ a�ti?

Tu ro ver:Mo�ram,�zbog�Del�Pon�te�o�ve,�ina�~e�sam�mr�tav�~o�vek.�Na�rav�no,

osi�gu�rao�sam�se�ta�ko�{to�sam�obez�be�dio�da�se�u�slu�~a�ju�mog�li�{a�va�wa�`i�vo�-

ta�po�sta�nu�jav�ne�jo{�`e�{}e�in�for�ma�ci�je�ne�go�ove�ve}�do�sa�da.�Ali,�za�me�ne

ne�po�sto�ji�spo�koj�na�si�gur�nost.�Do�sa�da�su�u�sva�kom�slu�~a�ju�s�pu�ta�uklo�ni�li�naj�-

ma�we�pet�sve�do�ka�ko�ji�te�re�te�u�afe�ri�Ma�be�teks.�Po�sled�wa�̀ r�tva�je�bi�la�li~�-

na� se�kre�ta�ri�ca�Pa�co�li�ja,� 32-go�di�{wa�`e�na,� smrt� u� ku�pa�ti�lu,� na�vod�no� od

trom�ba.�Ni�kad�ni�je�bi�lo�autop�si�je�le�{a,�ona�je�kre�mi�ra�na�sle�de�}eg�da�na.

(Pr�vo�ob�ja�vqi�va�we�u:�’Kon�kret’,�de�cem�bra�2002.�go�di�ne)”

Sli�~an�~la�nak�je�ob�ja�vqen�i�u�no�vi�na�ma�“Srp�ske�no�vi�ne�ogle�da�lo”,�28.

sep�tem�bra�2005.�go�di�ne�pod�na�slo�vom�“Op�tu�̀ be�pro�tiv�tu�̀ i�o�ca”�i�nad�na�slo�-

vom�“Ka�kve�su�ve�ze�Kar�le�del�Pon�te�sa�al�ban�skim�fi�nan�sij�skim�lo�bi�jem�u

[vaj�car�skoj”.

Da�su�i�su�di�je�Ha�{kog�tri�bu�na�la�do�bro�oba�ve�{te�ne�ko�je�Kar�la�Del�Pon�-

te�sve�do�~i�i�su�di�ja�Vol�fgang�[om�burg�ko�ji�je�o�to�me�bi�ra�nim�re�~i�ma�oba�ve�-

stio�jav�nost�u�in�ter�vjuu�za�austrij�sku�dr�̀ av�nu�agen�ci�ju�APA,�a�ko�ji�je�pre�net

u�hr�vat�skim�no�vi�na�ma�“Glo�bus”�13.�ok�to�bra�2006.�go�di�ne�pod�na�slo�vom�“Ha�-

{ki�bi~�za�Kar�lu�del�Pon�te”.109

Page 110: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

Sadr`aj

Predgovor ................................................................................................ 3

Podnesak .................................................................................................. 9

Zahtev�prof.�dr�Vojislava�[e{eqa�da�Pretresno�ve}e�IIIpokrene�postupak�za�nepo{tovawe�me|unarodnog�suda�

protiv�Karle�del�Ponte,�Hildegard�Uerc-Reclaf�

i�Danijela�Saksona ..................................................................... 9I Uvod .........................................................................................................

9II Optu`be za nepo{tovawe Me|unarodnog suda ...................................

12

1.�Nenad�Jovi}�iz�Malog�Zvornika�............................................... 12

2.�Zoran�Dra`ilovi}�iz�Beograda�................................................. 13

3.�Zdravko�Abramovi}�iz�Sombora�............................................... 14

4.�Slavoqub�Jovanovi}�iz�Sombora�.............................................. 15

5.�Milorad�Gogi}�iz�Loznice�......................................................... 15

6.�Zoran�Suboti}�iz�Novog�Sada�.................................................... 16

7.�Jovo�Ostoji}�iz�Prigrevice........................................................ 17

8.�Dragan�Cvetinovi}�iz�Loznice�................................................. 18

9.�Borislav�Bogunovi}�iz�[ida�..................................................... 19

10.�An|elko�Trnini}�iz�Loznice�..................................................... 20

11.�Miroslav�Vukovi}�iz�^a~ka�....................................................... 20

12.�Sre}ko�Radovanovi}�iz�Kragujevca�........................................... 21

13.�Slobodan�Ze~evi}�iz�Kragujevca�............................................... 22

14.�Slavko�Aleksi}�iz�Bile}e�.......................................................... 23

15.�Vladimir�Deanovi}�iz�Pan~eva�................................................ 23

16.�@arko�Latinovi}�iz�Pan~eva�.................................................... 24

17.�@ivomir�Avramovi}�iz�Kragujevca�......................................... 24

18.�Janko�Laki}�iz�Malog�Zvornika�................................................ 25III Tra`eno pravno sredstvo ......................................................................

33

Izjave ....................................................................................................... 34Kwiga Jove Ostoji}a ................................................................................. 66

Novinski ~lanci ......................................................................................... 108

110

Page 111: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

111

Page 112: Ili Karlin Svedok Ili Smrt

112