Clep

llnsk

i, Mich

ael, voL X

I, 187-189, 199

Clard

y, Barn

ard S

.: T

estimon

y, voL X

II, 403-114 R

eferred "

to. vol. XII, 257-258, 397,

402, 431-132; voL X

III, 10-11, 17, 20, 30, 41-42, 49, 51-52, 54 ; vol. X

V, 63-65, 129

Clark

, Ch

esley, voL X

V, 729-730, 733,

742 C

lark, I., vol. IX, 205, 301.

Clark

, Marsh

, voL X

I, 317-318 C

lark, M

ax E.:

Testim

ony, vol. V

III, 343-353 R

eferred to, voL

II, 324. 335 ; voL

VIII, 369, 383, 410, 413, 430, 435,

466-467; vol. IX, 7, 17, 130, 143,

161, 219, 224, 227, 230, 235-236, 238-240, 260, 306-307, 314, 451; voL

XI, 119, 123, 133

Cla

rk, M

ax E

. (Mrs.), v

ol. I, 7

; vol.

VIII, 305, 401-/03, 407-408, 410, 413,

430, 435, 466-467; vol. LX

, 17, 130, 143, 161, 219. 222, 224, 227, 230. 239-240, 306, 314, 451 ; vol. X

I, 110, 123, 133

Clark

, Rich

ard L

.: T

estimon

y, vol. VII, 235-239

Referred

to, vol. VII, 125, 127, 168-

170, 233-234, 242, 262, 264; voL

XIII, 186

Clark

, William

Kem

p:

Testim

ony, vol. V

I, 18-30 R

eferred to. vol. II, 39, 81-82 ; vol.

III, 36

0-3

61

, 36

9, 3

71

-37

6, 3

81

- 3

82

; vo

l. VI, 4

, 9-1

3, 4

0-4

1, 4

7.

49, 55, 61-62, 64, 70, 74, 81, 114, 142, 145, 148-149

Claverie, A

min

the, voL

VIII, 96-07, 99

Claverie, C

harles, V

ol. VIII, 95-97, 158

Claverie, Joh

n, vol. V

III ; 95-97, 158 C

layton, B

ob, voL

XV

, 557 C

lemen

te. Man

nin

g C.:

Testim

ony, voL

VII, 318-322

Referred

to, voL IV

, 217; voL

l30, 132, 171. 173-174; voL X

IV,

168, 268 ; vol. XV

, 59, 66, 68-70,175 C

Uck

, Daryl, vol. II, 40-50. 294

Clifton

, Ch

ester V., voL

VII, 471

Cloy, C

apt. R

ichard

C., vol. X

V, 738-

741 C

oates, T. R

., vol. X, 410

Cob

o, Al, vol. X

IV, 377

Cob

o, Ed

ward

A., voL

XIV

, 375, 377 C

od

y, J

oe, v

ol. X

III, 189; v

oL

XIV

, 83, 91, 295, 618

Cod

y, Julie A

nn

e. (S

ee Rich

, Nan

cy P

errin.)

Coh

en, M

arion, vol. V

III, 227 C

ohen

, Mick

ey, voL X

IV, 334

Cok

er, John

, vol. VI, 216, 218

Pok

..: Portia

rn1

'VIT

T t2

l1

Cole, A

lwyn

, testimon

y, vol. IV, 358-

; vol. XV

, 703-709 C

ole. Dave.

(gee C

herry, D

ave.) C

ole, Fran

ces (Mrs.), vol. X

IV, 496

Colem

an. K

athy K

ay. (S

ee O

lsen, K

ay Helen

.) C

oleman

, Ken

nerd

, voL X

IV, 641

Colem

an, S

heri, vol. X

IV, 636, 644

Colem

an, S

usan

, vol. XIV

, 636, 644 C

oleman, W

alter Kirk, voL

V, 448; vol.

XI, 418-417

Coley, Jerry, voL

XV

, 537, 540 C

ollins, E

mm

a, vol. XV

, 322, 335 C

ollins, M

erv, vol. XV

, 302-304, 306 C

ollins , P

atsy, vol. VII, 152

Collins, "R

ip," vol. XV

, 537 C

olvin, H

ershey, voL

XIV

, 447 ; voL

XV

, 22, 45 C

omach

o, Marin

o, vol IX, 187

Com

best, B. H

.: T

estimon

y, voL X

II, 176-186 R

eferred to, vol. X

II, 163 ; vol. XV

, 83-85

Cn

mm

ance, B

enn

y (Mrs.), vol. X

I, 21 C

omp

, Ch

arlie, vol. XIV

. 373 C

onforto, Jan

et Ad

ams, voL

V, 207;

vo

L X

II, 18

0; v

ol. X

III, 21

4, 4

20

- 421, 437, 494, 498-499; vol. X

IV, 149,

606; voL X

V, 101, 190-200. 208, 21°-

211, 227, 265, 410-412, 416, 627 C

onn

ally, Gov. Joh

n B

., Jr.; T

estimon

y, voL IV

, 129-146 R

eferred to, voL

I, 72, 220, 224-225, 4

48

-45

0, 4

57

; vo

L II, 3

9-4

1, 6

8,

74, 77, 79, 83, 90-92, 94-96, 100, 104, 115, 118, 124, 131, 133, 140- 142, 151, 175, 313, 316, 319, 327, 332, 368, 374-378, 381-382, 399, 414; v

ol. III, 1

74, 2

66, 3

58, 3

79,

383, 389, 413 ; vol. IV, 103-118,

11

8-1

22

, 12

4, 1

27

-12

8, 1

46

-14

9,

182, 180, 225-226, 231, 246, 275, 3

37

, 35

4, 4

30

; vo

L V

. 63

-64

, 67

. 72-73, 75, 78-87, 92-97, 103-105, 131-134, 142, 148, 154-159, 165, 167-174, 176, 179-181, 184, 215, 232, 408, 563-566, 807-608. 610- 6

11

, 61

9; v

ol. V

I, 2, 1

0, 2

4, 6

4,

73-75, 77-79, 83-87, 89-112, 114- 118, 120-128, 130, 136, 144-150, 152, 208-209, 243-244, 292, 294 ; vol. V

II, 219, 291. 304, 315, 347, 419, 421, 423, 441-443, 448-450, 455. 482, 465-466, 473, 475, 479- 480, 488, 517, 519, 564, 572, 574; vol. V

III, 173, 193, 351, 374, 388, 405, 411; vol IX

, 48, 95, 149, 255, 325-326, 373, 471; vol. X

I, 79, 145; voL

XII, 51, 63, 26'2 ; vol. X

IV,

485; voL X

V, 78, 82, 242, 322, 381,

91

N1

7.T

Q Q

.t.* ("n

o -,N

A

Con

nally, Joh

n B

., Jr. (Mrs.) :

Testim

ony, voL

IV, 146-149

Referred

to, vol. II, 40-41, 68, 74, 77, 7

9. 1

04

, 11

5, 1

18

, 12

4, 1

32

, 13

3,

14

0, 1

52

, 17

5; v

oL

IV, 1

03

, 11

4,

118, 130-134, 143; voL V

, 131, 142, 1

58

, 17

9, 1

81

, 563-5

66; v

oL

VI,

92-94, 108-109, 186, 208, 239; vol. V

II, 462, 466, 517; vol. XV

, 699 C

onn

ell, C. L

. (Mrs.), vol. X

I, 379-381 C

onn

elly, Joan (M

iss), vol. I, 265-266, 282-283

Con

nor, P

eter Fran

cis: A

ffidavit, vol. V

III, 317 R

eferred to, voL

VIII, 288

Con

rad. Ivan

W., vol. III. 476

Con

sidin

e. Bob

, voL II, 88; voL

XI,

419, 440 C

onw

ay. Herm

an, vol. V

III, 121 C

onw

ay, Hiram

L., vol. V

III. 90 C

onw

ay. Hiram

P.:

Testim

ony, vol. V

III, 84-90 R

eferred to, vol. X

I, 84 C

onw

ay, Hiram

P. (M

rs.). vol. VIII,

86, 88 C

ook. D

ickerson

, voL X

I, 855 C

ook, Joe, voL

XIII, 378 ; voL

XIV

, 60 C

ooke. L

eon, vol. X

III. 71; vol XIV

, 419-420, 445

Cook

sey, Lee, vaL

XIII, 417

Cooley, S

herm

an, vol. V

III, 303; voL

XI, Ill

Corb

at, S

tan

ley. v

ol. X

IV, 1

76430,

183-184, 190-191, 193 C

orday, M

ickey, vol. X

III, 415 C

orn

wa

ll, F. L

. vo

L X

II, 74

. 79

, 81

, 160, 185, 198-199. 293, 387

Corp

orom Joh

n, affid

avit, voL X

I, 471 C

orrigan. L

eo, vol. IX. 18

Cou

ch, M

alcolm 0.:

Testim

ony, vol. V

I, 153-162 R

eferred to, vol. II, 162; vol. IV

, 163 C

oulon

, Elton

J., vol. XII, 260

Cou

lter, Harris:

Testim

ony, vol. V

, 408-410 R

eferred to, voL

V, 404, 413

Cou

nter, C

harles, voL

XIV

, 98 C

ourtn

ey, Ken

t, voL X

V, 720-721

Cou

rtney, K

ent (M

rs.). vol. XV

. 721 C

owzert, D

avey, vol. VI, 240-241

Cox, Jim

my, vol. I, 245, 259

Co

x, R

ola

nd

A., testim

on

y, v

ol X

V,

153-159 C

oxsey, J. L., vol. X

IV, 36

Crafard

, Alice Iren

e, vol. XIII, 403

Crafard

, Alice L

aLain

e, vol. XIII, 404

Crafard

, Cu

rtis LaV

erne (L

arry) T

estimon

y, vol. XIII, 402-506 ; vol.

XIV

, 1-05 R

eferred to

, vol. I, 2

39, 4

36; v

oL

II. 296; voL

III, 05 ; vol. V, 188,

Cra

fard

, Ca

rus L

aV

erne (L

arry

)- C

ontlnned R

eferred to, voL

XIII-C

ontin

ued

207-208, 237-238, 251-252, 255, 327-329. 334-339, 343, 346-348, 352, 376-377 ; vol. X

IV, 148, 218-

20. 2

23-2

24, 2

27, 2

99. 3

08, 4

06.

43

3, 4

69

, 56

7; v

ol. X

V, 4

1. 1

03

. 335, 341, 413, 415, 455, 494, 517. 847-648, 661

Crafard, E

dward D

., voL X

III, 403, 414 C

rafard, Gary H

arold, voL X

III, 404 C

rafarcl. Hu

gh, vol. X

III, 403 C

raft, I. M., voL

IV, 277

Craig, R

oger D.:

Testim

ony, vol. V

I, 280-273 R

eferred to, voL IV

, 245; vol. V11,404

Cran

ks. Joh

nn

y, voL X

IV, 502

Craven

. Bob

, vol. XIII, 416-419, 497;

vol. XIV

, 91 C

rawford

. James N

.: T

estimon

y, vol. VI, 171-174

Referred

to, vol. VI, 175-176

Craw

ford. John IL, vol. X

IV. 61, 286

Craw

ford, Thom

as W., vol X

V, 241

Creel. R

obert J., affidavit, vol. XI, 477

Cren

shaw

, Dr. C

harles, vol. V

I, 31-82, 40, 80, 80-81, 141

Cren

shaw

, P. L

., vol. XII, 214

Cresp

i. Pio (M

rs.). voL IX

, 13, 19 C

rIssey, Ed

gar, vol. V, 505

Cronkite, W

alter, vol. XI, 243, 246-248

Crossley, T

aylor, vol. XIV

. 451 C

rowe, W

illiam 1)., Jr.:

Testim

ony, voL

XV

. 96-114 R

eferred to

, vo

l. V, 1

83

; vo

L X

I, 422; voL

XIII, 219, 343, 368469,

376, 427, 499; voL X

IV, 12-13, 51,

67..1

09, 1

31-1

32, 4

67; v

oL

XV

, 201, 280, 426, 725-726

Crow

e, William

D., III, vol. X

V. 97

Crow

ley, James D

., affidavit, vol. X

I, 482

Croy, K

enneth Hudson :

Testim

ony, vol. X

II, 186-206 R

eferred to, voL

XIII, 381-382, 384

Cron, E

lgin : T

estimon

y, vol. XV

, 138-145 R

eferred to

, vol. IV

, 159; v

ol. V

, 239; vol. V

II, 477, 481-482, 484; vol. X

II, 27, 39 ; vol. XV

, 350 C

rum

p, Joh

n E

., vol. XI, 185-189

Cru

mp

, L. C

., vol. XII, 88, 139

Cram

pton

, Ralp

h, vol. X

V, 537

Cruz, M

iguel, vol. X, 37, 53

Cu

aka, Joh

n, vol. V

III, 301 C

ugat, X

avier, vol. XIV

, 291 C

ullum, A

. W., vol. IV

, 336 ; vol. VII, 331

Coale, Jerry, voL

V, 189

Cunningham

, Cortlandt :

Testim

ony, voL

II, 251-253; vol. III JR

1_ms

vtv

801

"How

did

the p

ractitioner w

ho sig

ned

the d

eath certificate o

f the P

residen

t fail to

take th

e trou

ble to

turn

him

ov

er?" O

f course

, that re

fers to

you a

nd w

ill you g

ive m

e y

our a

nsw

er to

that

qu

estion

, as the n

ews m

edia h

as po

sed it?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. Qu

ite simp

ly, as I p

reciou

sly stated

, the d

uratio

n o

f time th

e P

residen

t was aliv

e was o

ccup

ied b

y attem

pts to

flare his life. W

hen

these

failed, fu

rther ex

amin

ation

of th

e patien

t's bo

dy

was n

ot d

on

e, as it was felt

that little co

uld

be g

ained

or learn

ed th

at wo

uld

be h

elpfu

l in d

ecidin

g th

e co

urse o

f even

ts leadin

g u

p to

his assassin

ation

, that is, ex

amin

ation

by

me, as

I knew

a

n au

top

sy w

ou

ld b

e perfo

rmed

wh

ich w

ou

ld b

e far mo

re mean

ing

ful

and

revealin

g th

an an

y cu

rsory

extern

al exam

inatio

n co

nd

ucted

in th

e emer-

gen

cy ro

om

by

me.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Now

, was the action taken by you in signing the death certificate

based

up

on

the ex

amin

ation

wh

ich y

ou

mad

e in acco

rdan

ce with

what y

ou

believed to be good medical practice?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. Yes, sir.

Mr. S

PE

CT

EP

.. So

that th

e characterizatio

n h

ere of "L

' Ex

press" th

at the

failure to

turn

the P

residen

t over w

ould

not co

nstitu

te gro

ss neg

ligen

ce in y

our

pro

fessional Ju

dgm

ent, as th

ey h

ave ch

aracterized it h

ere. D

r. CL

AR

K. N

o, sir. O

ne o

ther p

oin

t, If I may

here?

Mr. S

pices&

Yes.

Dr. C

LA

RK

. In o

rder to

move th

e Presid

ent's b

ody to

Beth

esda w

here th

e au

topsy

was to

be p

erform

ed, a d

eath certificate h

ad to

be filled

out in

confo

rm-

ance w

ith T

exas S

tate

law

to a

llow

the b

ody to

be tra

nsp

orte

d. T

his is th

e

secon

d p

art of th

e sign

ing

of th

e death

certificate. M

r. Srscv

sat. Do

yo

u h

ave an

yth

ing

to ad

d. D

r. Clark

, which

you th

ink m

ight

be h

elpfu

l at all in th

e inquiry

bein

g m

ade b

y th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. NO

; I do

n't th

ink

so

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And did you and I chat for Just a m

oment or tw

o about the ques-tio

ns I w

ould

ask y

ou o

n th

is supplem

ental d

epositio

n b

efore it w

ent o

n th

e reco

rd?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. Yes, sir.

Mr. S

eeere

a„ A

nd

hav

e y

ou

talk

ed

to a

ny

rep

rese

nta

tive o

f the F

ed

era

l G

overn

men

t betw

een th

e time I to

ok y

our d

epositio

n last S

aturd

ay an

d th

is W

ednesd

ay m

orn

ing?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. No, air.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Thank you very m

uch, Dr. C

lark. D

r. CL

AR

E. A

ll right.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Have you received a letter from

the Com

mission w

hich enclosed a co

py

of th

e Ex

ecutiv

e ord

er creating

the C

om

missio

n, an

d a co

py

of th

e C

ongressio

nal R

esolu

tion p

ertainin

g to

the C

om

missio

n, an

d a co

py o

f the p

ro-

cedVres for taking testim

ony under the Com

mission?

Dr. W

ets:LI-ken. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd is it satisfacto

ry w

ith y

ou to

answ

er these q

uestio

ns fo

r u

s tod

ay, ev

en th

ou

gh

yo

u h

aven

't had

the 3

day

s betw

een th

e time o

f the

receipt o

f the letter an

d to

day

? D

r. MC

CL

EL

LA

ND

. Yes.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What is your profession, D

octor? D

r. MC

CL

EL

LA

ND

. I am a doctor of m

edicine. M

r. &T

enn

. Wo

uld

yo

u o

utlin

e briefly

yo

ur ed

ucatio

nal b

ackg

rou

nd

, start-in

g w

ith y

ou

r grad

uatio

n fro

m co

llege, p

lease? D

r. Mo

Cu

ril.a.en S

ince g

raduatio

n fro

m co

llege I atten

ded

med

ical school

at the U

niv

ersity o

f Tex

as, med

ical bran

ch in

Galv

eston

, Tex

., and

received

the

M.D

. degree from

that sch

ool in

1954. I th

en w

ent to

Kan

sas City

, Kan

s., where

I did

a rotatin

g in

ternsh

ip at th

e Univ

ersity o

f Kan

sas Med

ical Cen

ter from

Ju

ne 1

95

4 to

Jun

e 19

55

. Fo

llow

ing

that p

eriod

I was a g

eneral m

edical o

fficer in

the A

ir Force fo

r 2 y

ears in G

erman

y, an

d su

bseq

uen

t to m

y release fro

m

active d

uty

, I becam

e a gen

eral surg

ery resid

ent at P

arklan

d M

emorial H

os-

pital in

Dallas in

Au

gu

st of 1

95

7. I rem

ained

at Park

land

from

that d

ate to

August 1

959, at w

hich

time I en

tered p

rivate p

ractice for ten

month

s, and

then

reentered

my g

eneral su

rgery

trainin

g p

rogram

at Park

land in

Tune 1

960.

I com

pleted

my

4 y

ears of g

eneral su

rgical train

ing in

June 1

962. F

ollo

win

g

that tim

e I becam

e a full-tim

e instru

ctor o

f surg

ery o

n th

e staff of th

e Cal-

versity

of T

exas, S

outh

western

Med

ical Sch

ool, an

d I am

at the p

resent tim

e an associa,ter; ~

rr~sS

y~

~~

su

rger,Ia

ls,0

0l.

air. SP

EC

TE

R. D

r. McC

lelland, in

connectio

n w

ith y

our d

uti ss at P

arklan

d

Ho

spital, o

r befo

re, hav

e yo

u h

ad an

y ex

perien

ce with

gu

nsh

ot w

ou

nd

s? D

r. McC

r...ermarre. Y

es. M

r, SP

EC

TE

R. W

here in

your b

ackgrclan

d d

id y

ou acq

uire th

at experien

ce? D

r. Mcan

uaen

. Larg

ely d

urin

g resid

ency

trainin

g an

d su

bseq

uen

t to th

at in

my cap

acity h

ere on th

e staff. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd w

hat h

as pro

vid

ed th

e opportu

nity

for y

our ex

perien

ce here at P

arklan

d in

residen

cy train

ing an

d o

n th

e staff with

respect to

acquirin

g

know

ledge o

f gunsh

aL..,v

ds?

Dr. M

eCrx

mirrin

. Larg

ely tth

is has b

een related

to th

e type o

f hosp

ital which

P

arklan

d is; n

amely

, City

-Cm

-fifty H

osp

ital wh

ich receiv

es all of th

e ind

igen

t p

atients o

f this co

un

ty, m

any

of o

m are in

vo

lved

frequ

ently

in sh

oo

ting

alterca-tio

ns, so

that w

e d

o se

e a

tar e

ura

kezA

tha,t.ty

pe„,p

atA

ten

t.Eq

e,PA

7-

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Could

you ap

pro

xim

ate for m

e the to

tal num

ber o

f gunsh

ot

wounds w

hich you have had an opportunity to observe? D

r. McC

inu

..aren. I w

ou

ld estim

ate that it w

ou

ld b

e in ex

cess of 2

00

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat w

as yo

ur d

uty

assign

men

t back

on

No

vem

ber 2

2, 1

98

3?

Dr. M

eC

tsziA

xn. A

t that tim

e I w

as sh

ow

in a

ntA

le,tech

niq

ues

to a g

rou

p o

f stud

ents an

d resid

ents o

n

a se

con o

or'o

f Parklan

d H

osp

ital in

the su

rgical su

ite, wh

ere .. I was n

otified

. ot.44,t&rtA

ig,,Ezegdgo K

enned

y

was b

eing

bro

ug

ht to

the P

irl—IM

euiiiiItg

ency

roo

m after h

avin

g b

een sh

ot.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

hat action, if any, did you take following that notification?

Dr. M

ean:m

as). Imm

ediately

up

on

hearin

g th

at, I accom

pan

ied th

e Resi-

den

t, Dr. C

rensh

aw, w

ho

bro

ug

ht th

is new

s to m

e, to th

e emerg

ency

mo

m, an

d

dow

n to

the trau

ma ro

om

1 .w

here P

residen

t Ken

ned

y h

ad

been tak

en im

-m

ediately

up

on

arrival.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And ap

pro

xim

ately w

hat tim

e did

you arriv

e in E

merg

ency

R

oom 1?

Dr. lifeC

tkm

artn. T

his is a m

ere appro

xim

ation, b

ut I w

ould

appro

xim

ate o

r estimate, rath

er, abo

ut 1

2:4

0.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d w

ho

was p

resent, if an

yo

ne, at th

e time o

f yo

ur arriv

al? D

r. MC

CL

EL

LA

.R D

. At th

e time I arriv

ed, D

r. Perry

—w

ould

you lik

e the fu

ll n

ames o

f all these?

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. That w

ould be fine, I would appreciate that_

TE

ST

IMO

NY

OF

DR

. RO

BE

RT

NE

LS

ON

MeC

LE

LL

AN

D

Th

e testimo

ny o

f Dr. R

ob

ert Nelso

n M

cClellan

d w

as tak

en o

n M

arch 2

1, 1

964,

at Park

land M

emorial H

osp

ital, Dallas, T

ex., b

y M

r. Arlen

Specter, assistan

t co

un

sel of th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Will you raise your right hand?

Dr. ld

eCret L

een. Y

es. M

r. Seiteav

at. Do

yo

u so

lemn

ly sw

ear that th

e testimo

ny

yo

u g

ive in

these

pro

ceedin

gs w

ill be th

e truth

, the w

hole tru

th, an

d n

oth

ing b

ut th

e truth

, so

help

yo

u G

od

? D

r. MeC

r at r to

rn. I d

o.

Mr. S

PE

CT

'ER

. Dr. M

cClellan

d, th

e pu

rpo

se of th

is pro

ceedin

g is to

take y

ou

r d

epo

sition

In co

nn

ection

with

an in

vestig

ation

wh

ich is b

eing

con

du

cted b

y

the P

residen

t's Com

missio

n o

n th

e Assassin

ation o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y, an

d

the sp

ecific purp

ose o

f our req

uestin

g y

ou to

answ

er questio

ns relates to

the

topic, o

f the m

ed

ical c

are

wh

ich

Pre

siden

t Ken

ned

y re

ceiv

ed

at P

ark

lan

d

Mem

orial H

osp

ital. D

r. McC

lelland, w

ill you tell as y

our fu

ll nam

e for th

e record

, please?

Dr. Illcazr.L

azen. R

ob

ert Nelso

n M

cClellan

d.

30

"Ho

w d

id th

e practitio

ner w

ho

sign

ed th

e death

certificate of th

e Presid

ent

fail to tak

e the tro

ub

le to tu

rn h

im o

ver?"

Of c

ou

rse, th

at re

fers to

yo

u a

nd

will y

ou

giv

e m

e y

ou

r an

swer to

that

qu

estion

, as the n

ews m

edia h

as po

sed it?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. Quite sim

ply

, as I prev

iously

stated, th

e duratio

n o

f thee th

e P

residen

t was aliv

e was o

ccupied

by attem

pts to

save h

is life. When

these

failed, fu

rther ex

amin

ation

of th

e patien

t's bo

dy

was n

ot d

on

e, as It was felt

that little co

uld

be g

ained

or learn

ed th

at wo

uld

be h

elpfu

l in d

ecidin

g th

e co

urse o

f even

ts leadin

g u

p to

his assassin

ation, th

at is, exam

inatio

n b

y m

e, as I k

new

an au

topsy

would

be p

erform

ed w

hich

would

be far m

ore m

eanin

gfu

l an

d rev

ealing

than

any

curso

ry ex

ternal ex

amin

ation

con

du

cted in

the em

er-g

ency

roo

m b

y m

e. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. N

ow, w

as the action taken by you in signing the death certificate b

ased u

po

n th

e exam

inatio

n w

hich

yo

u m

ade in

accord

ance w

ith w

hat y

ou

believed to be good m

edical practice? D

r. CL

AR

E. Y

ea, sir. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. S

o th

at the ch

aracterization h

ere of "L

' Express" th

at the

failure to

turn

the P

residen

t over w

ould

not co

nstitu

te gro

ss neg

ligen

ce in y

our

pro

fessional ju

dgm

ent, as th

ey h

ave ch

aracterized it h

ere. D

r. CL

AIM

. No, sir. O

ne o

ther p

oin

t, if I may

here?

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Yes.

Dr. C

LA

RK

. In o

rder to

mo

ve th

e Presid

ent's b

od

y to

Beth

esda w

here th

e au

topsy

was to

be p

erform

ed, a d

eath certificate h

ad to

be filled

out in

confo

rm.

ance w

ith T

exas S

tate law to

allow

the b

od

y to

be tran

spo

rted. T

his is th

e seco

nd

part o

f the sig

nin

g o

f the d

eath certificate.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Do y

ou h

ave an

yth

ing to

add, D

r. Clark

. which

you th

ink m

ight

be h

elpfu

l at all in th

e inq

uiry

bein

g m

ade b

y th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. No I d

on't th

ink so

. M

r. SPEC

TE

R.

And d

id y

ou an

d I ch

at for ju

st a mom

ent o

r two ab

out th

e ques-

tion

s I wo

uld

ask y

ou

on

this su

pp

lemen

tal dep

ositio

n b

efore it w

ent o

n th

e reco

rd?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. Yes, sir.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d h

ave y

ou

talked

to an

y rep

resentativ

e of th

e Fed

eral G

ov

ernm

ent b

etween

the tim

e I too

k y

ou

r dep

ositio

n last S

aturd

ay an

d th

is W

ednesd

ay m

orn

ing?

Dr. C

LA

RK

. No, air.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Thank you very m

uch, Dr. C

lark. D

r. CL

AR

K. A

ll right.

TE

ST

IMO

NY

OF

DR

. RO

BE

RT

NE

LS

ON

McC

LE

LL

A,N

D

Th

e testimon

y o

f Dr. R

ob

ert Nelso

n M

cClellan

d w

as taken

on

March

21

, 19

64

. at P

arklan

d M

emorial H

osp

ital, Dallas, T

ex., b

y M

r. Arlen

Specter, assistan

t co

un

sel of th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. W

ill yo

u raise y

ou

r righ

t han

d?

Dr. M

cCta.t.L

Arrn, Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

o y

ou so

lemnly

swear th

at the testim

ony y

ou g

ive In

these

pro

ceedin

gs w

ill be th

e truth

, the w

hole tru

th, an

d n

oth

ing b

ut th

e truth

, so

help

yo

u G

od

? D

r. McC

LE

LL

AN

D. I do.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Dr. M

cClellan

d, th

e pu

rpo

se of th

is pro

ceedin

g is to

take your

dep

ositio

n in

con

nectio

n w

ith an

inv

estigatio

n w

hich

is bein

g co

nd

ucted

by

th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n o

n th

e Assassin

ation o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y, an

d

the sp

ecific pu

rpo

se of o

ur req

uestin

g y

ou

to an

swer q

uestio

ns relates to

the

topic

of th

e m

edic

al c

are

whic

h P

resid

ent K

ennedy re

ceiv

ed a

t Park

land

Mem

orial H

osp

ital. D

r. McC

lelland, w

ill you tell u

s your fu

ll nam

e for th

e record

, please?

Dr. M

cCtim

tzen. R

ob

ert Nelso

n M

cClellan

d.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Have you received a letter from

the Com

mission w

hich enclose a co

py o

f the E

xecu

tive o

rder creatin

g th

e Com

missio

n, an

d a co

py o

f th

Congressio

nal R

esolu

tion p

ertainin

g to

the C

om

missio

n, an

d a co

py o

f the p

n

cedUres for taking testim

ony under the Com

mission?

Dr. 11cC

tztt.Arfn. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd is it satisfacto

ry w

ith y

ou to

answ

er these q

uestio

ns fo

us

tod

ay, ev

en th

ou

gh

yo

u h

aven

't had

the 3

day

s betw

een th

e time o

f th

receipt o

f the letter an

d to

day

? D

r. MC

CLELLA

ND

. Yes.

Mr. SPEcTF..R

. Wh

at is yo

ur p

rofessio

n, D

octo

r? D

r. McC

lam-A

ND

. I am a doctor of m

edicine. M

r. Srzarza. W

ould

you o

utlin

e briefly

your ed

ucatio

nal b

ackgro

und, star

ing w

ith y

our g

raduatio

n fro

m co

llege, p

lease? D

r. Mo

e=

Lasn. S

ince g

radu

ation

from

colleg

e I attend

ed m

edical sch

m

at th

e Univ

ersity o

f Tex

as, med

ical bran

ch in

Galv

eston, T

ex., an

d receiv

ed tb

M

.D. d

egree fro

m th

at scho

ol in

19

54

. I then

went to

Kan

sas City

, Kan

s., wh

et I d

id a ro

tating

intern

ship

at the U

niv

ersity o

f Kan

sas Med

ical Cen

ter fro:

June 1

04 to

June 1

955. F

ollo

win

g th

at perio

d I w

as a gen

eral med

ical °filet in

the A

ir Force fo

r 2 y

ears in G

erman

y, an

d su

bseq

uen

t to m

y release fro

: active d

uty

, I becam

e a gen

eral surg

ery resid

ent at P

arklan

d M

emo

rial Ho

p

ital in D

allas in A

ug

ust o

f 19

57

. I remain

ed at P

arklan

d fro

m th

at date I

August 1

959, a

t wh

ich

time I e

nte

red

priv

ate

pra

ctic

e fo

r ten

mo

nth

s, at

then

reentered

my g

eneral su

rgery

trainin

g p

rogram

at Park

land in

June 1

96

I com

pleted

my 4

years o

f gen

eral surgical trainin

g in

Jun

e 19

62

. Fo

llow

!' th

at time I b

ecame a fu

ll-time in

structo

r of su

rgery

on th

e staff of th

e Un

versity

of T

exas, S

ou

thw

estern M

edical S

cho

ol, an

d I am

at the p

resent tin

an

associa0

prg

esga_

,dju

rgag

Atilat..,aelo

ol.

Srr.

SPEC

TE

R.

Dr. M

cClellan

d, in

connectio

n w

ith y

our d

uti. at P

arklaz

Hosp

ital, or b

efore, h

ave y

ou h

ad an

y ex

perien

ce with

gunsh

ot w

ounds?

Dr. licC

i-ett-Aw

n. Yes.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Where in

your b

ackgrd

und d

id y

ou acq

uire th

at experien

ce D

r. McC

irri &en

. Larg

ely d

urin

g resid

ency

trainin

g an

d su

bseq

uen

t to th

. In

my

capacity

here o

n th

e staff. M

r. SpEC

TFIL An

d w

hat h

as pro

vid

ed th

e op

po

rtun

ity fo

r yo

ur ex

perien

here at P

arklan

d in

residen

cy train

ing an

d o

n th

e staff with

respect to

acquiril

kn

ow

ledg

e of g

un

sliat_5

ysait?

Dr. M

cCtzt-n

Aiiii. L

argely

this h

as been

related to

the ty

pe o

f hosp

ital whb

Park

land

is; nam

ely, C

ity-C

oan s ty

Ho

spital w

hich

receives all o

f the In

dig

o

patien

ts of th

is county

, man

y o

f Aom

are involv

ed freq

uen

tly in

shootin

g alter[

Lio

ns, so

that w

e do see a 1

2 .131,- c

:5m

beo

f ,t,11A0

Site.4

24,141 4...alm

oat.„All,y.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Co

uld

yo

u ap

pro

xim

ate for m

e the to

tal nu

mb

er of g

imsb

w

ounds which you have had an opportunity to observe?

Dr. M

CC

LELLAN

D. I w

ould

estimate th

at it would

be in

excess o

f 200.

Mr.

SPECTER

. What w

as your d

uty

assignm

ent b

ack o

n N

ovem

ber 2

2, 1

913

Dr. M

cCIE

LL

AN

D. A

t that tim

e I was sh

ow

inz .a

Atioajw

technlqu to

a gro

up

of stu

den

ts and

residen

ts on

ti se..ott iio

r'..of P

arklan

d H

osp

il in

the su

rgical su

ite, wh

ere I was n

otified

.of th

e,factl.hip

a,EzesiA

tat Ken

ne

was b

eing

bro

ught to

tice'Ve-rw il"iitrih

Terg

encfro

om

after hav

ing

been

sho

t. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd what action, if any, d

id y

ou

take fo

llow

ing

that n

otificatlo

D

r. Meet-M

LA

:gm

. Imm

ediately

upon h

earing th

at, I accom

pan

ied th

e Re

den

t, Dr. C

rensh

aw, w

ho b

rought th

is new

s to m

e, to th

e emerg

ency

room

, a dow

n to

the trau

ma ro

om

1 w

here P

residen

t Ken

ned

y h

ad b

een tak

en

med

iately u

po

n arriv

al. M

r. SP

EC

TIM

. An

d ap

pro

xim

ately w

hat tim

e did

yo

u arriv

e in E

merg

e! R

oom 1?

Dr. M

cCL

EL

LA

ND

. This Is a m

ere appro

xim

ation, b

ut I w

ould

appro

xim

: or estim

ate, rather, ab

out 1

2:4

0.

Mr.

SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd w

ho w

as presen

t, if anyone, at th

e time o

f your arrir

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. A

t the tim

e I arrived

, Dr. P

erry—

wo

uld

yo

u lik

e the f

nam

es of all th

ese? M

r. SpErT

ER

. That w

ould be fine. I would appreciate that.

I

I

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. D

r. Malcolm

Perry, D

r. Charles B

axter, Dr. C

harles Cron.

shaw

, Dr. Jam

es Carrico

, Dr. P

aul P

eters. - -v--M

r. Sin, T

Ir -nlart4: 4

key

all presen

t at the tim

e you arriv

ed?

Dr. M

cCtE

ttsofn

. They

we

t presen

t when

I arrived

.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Will-yen

- .titebtlesicluN

iie're' Rese

nt?

Dr. M

cCizr-tsisa. S

tarting w

ith th

e ones w

ho w

ere presen

t, I'm so

rry, th

e

ones w

ho w

ere presen

t when

I arrived

were D

rs. Carrico

, Perry

and B

axter.

The o

thers I m

entio

ned

arrived

subseq

uen

tly o

r about th

e same tim

e that I d

id.

Mr.

SPEC

TE

R. T

hen

, wh

at o

ther d

octo

rs, if an

y, a

rrived

afte

r yo

u d

id, in

addition to those whom

you have already mentioned?

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. In

additio

n, th

e ones th

at arrived

afterward

s, were D

r.

Ken

neth

Sal

""" SrrS

-icio

_s. S

-a-l-y

-e-r2

D

r. McC

fvf T

AN

I) S-a-l-y

-e-r, Dr. F

ouad

, F-o

-u-a-d

Bash

our, D

r. Donald

Set-

din

—

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. S-e-l-d-i-n?

Dr. M

cCf F

r T &

ND

. S-e-l-d-i-n—

I believe that's all. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat d

id y

ou o

bserv

e as to P

residen

t Ken

ned

y's co

nditio

n at

that tim

e? D

r. MC

CL

EL

LA

ND

. Well, on initially com

ing into the room and inspecting him

from

a d

istance o

f only

2 o

r 3 fe

et a

s I put o

n a

pair o

f surg

ical g

loves, it

was o

bvio

us th

at he h

ad su

stained

a pro

bab

ly m

ortal h

ead in

jury

, and th

at

his face w

as extrem

ely sw

ollen

and su

ffused

with

blo

od ap

peared

cyan

otic —

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. "Cyan

otic" —

may

I interru

pt—

just w

hat d

o y

ou m

ean b

y th

at in

lay term

s? D

r. McC

rvf.r.4

Nn. T

his m

ean b

luish

disco

loratio

n, b

luish

-black

disco

loratio

n

of th

e tissue. T

he ey

es were so

mew

hat p

rotu

beran

t, which

is usu

ally seen

after massiv

e head

Inju

ries den

otin

g in

creased in

tracranial p

ressure, an

d it

seemed

that h

e perh

aps w

as not m

akin

g, at th

e time at least, sp

ontan

eous resp

i-

ratory

movem

ents, b

ut w

as receivin

g artificial resp

iration fro

m a m

achin

e, an

anesth

esia mach

ine.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Who w

as operating that machine?

Dr. M

cCL

EL

LA

:sn. The m

achine—there w

as a changeover, just as I came in, one

of th

e docto

rs in th

e room

, I don't recall w

hich

one, h

ad b

een o

peratin

g w

hat

we call an

interm

ittent p

ositiv

e pressu

re breath

ing m

achin

e. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

ad th

at mach

ine b

een u

tilized p

rior to

your arriv

al?

Dr. M

cetEL

LA

ND

. It was in

use as I arriv

ed, y

es, and ab

out th

e same tim

e I

arrived

—th

is would

be o

ne o

ther d

octo

r who cam

e in th

e room

that I fo

rgot

about—

Dr. Jen

kin

s, M. T

. Jenkin

s, pro

fessor o

f anesth

esiolo

gy, cam

e into

the ro

om

with

a larger an

esthesia m

achin

e, which

is a better ty

pe m

achin

e

with

which

to m

aintain

contro

l of resp

iration, an

d th

is was

then

attached

to

the tu

be in

the P

residen

t's tracheo

tom

; anyw

ay, resp

iratory

movem

ents w

ere

bein

g m

ade fo

r him

with

these tw

o m

achin

es, which

were in

the p

rocess o

f

being changed when I cam

e in. T

hen, a

s I took m

y p

ost to

help

with

the tra

cheoto

my, I w

as sta

ndin

g a

t

the e

nd o

f the stre

tcher o

n w

hic

h th

e P

resid

ent w

as ly

ing, im

media

te' a

t

his

for p

urp

oses o

f hold

ing a trach

eoto

m, o

r a retractory

c - fie

.

r. SPEC

TE

R.

What d

id y

ou o

bserv

e, if anyth

ing, as to

the statu

s of th

e neck

wound w

hen

you first arriv

ed?

Dr. M

cCuna.A

sm. T

he n

eck w

ound, w

hen

I first arrived

, was at th

is time

converted

Into

a tracheo

tom

y in

cision. T

he ak

in in

cision h

ad b

een m

ade b

y

Dr. P

erry, an

d h

e told

me—

although I d

id n

ot see th

at —th

at he h

ad m

ade th

e

Incisio

n th

rol

.wu

ighie

jz=

a, s

situ

tzlz

t: tIlti,,,p2A

.,sparle

ter

cut, alth

ou

gh

som

ewhat irreg

ular m

argin

s of less th

an a q

uarter in

ch itt d

ispneter,

with

min

imal tisan

eAlam

age su

rroundin

g it o

rairsktfr.

-MT

—% S

icerEs. N

ow

, was th

ere anyth

ing lift' fo

r you to

observ

e of th

at bullet

wound, o

r bad

the In

cision o

bliterated

it? D

r. NIcC

ut.t.s.0

0. T

he in

cision h

ad o

bliterated

it. essentially

, the sk

in p

ortio

n,

that is. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. B

efore p

roceed

ing to

describ

e what y

ou d

id in

connectio

n w

ith

the trach

eosto

my, w

ill you m

ore fu

lly d

escribe y

our o

bserv

ation w

ith resp

ect to

the h

ead w

ound?

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. A

s I took th

e positio

n at th

e head

of th

e table th

at I hav

e-1

already d

escribed

,, to h

elp o

ut w

ith th

e tracheo

tom

y, I ,w

asin su

ch,a,p

ositio

n

thiL

Lso

uld

yea o

lose,ly

,-,axam

ine-th

e:head

. wound, an

d J. n

oted

that th

e-rig

ht

posterio

r portio

n o

f the sk

ull b

ad b

een.ex

tremely

blasted. It bad

been

shut-

feTtfir,-

appare'ntly-, by 1 e

feerg

ir the -sh

ot so

that th

e parietal b

one w

as pro

-

truded

up th

rough th

e scalp an

d seem

ed to

be fractu

red alm

ost alo

ng its rig

ht

poste

rior h

alf, a

s well a

s som

e o

f the o

ccip

ital b

one b

ein

g fra

ctu

red in

its

lateral half, an

d th

is spru

ng o

pen

the b

ones th

at I men

tioned

in su

ch a w

ay

that y

ou c

ould

actu

ally

look d

ow

n in

to th

e sk

ull c

avity

itself a

nd se

e th

at

pro

bab

ly a th

ird o

r so, at least, o

f the b

rain tissu

e, posterio

r cerebral tissu

e and

som

e of th

e cerebellar tissu

e had

been

blasted

out T

here w

as a large am

ount

of b

leedin

g w

hich

was o

ccurrin

g m

ainly

from

the larg

e ven

ous ch

annels in

the

skull which had been blasted open.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Was he alive at the tim

e you first saw him

? D

r. MC

CL

EL

LA

ND

. I really co

uld

n't say

, becau

se as I men

tioned

In th

e hectic

activity

—I really

could

n't say

what h

is blo

od p

ressure w

as or w

hat h

is pulse

was o

r anyth

ing o

f that so

rt. The o

nly

thin

g I co

uld

say th

at would

perh

aps

giv

e evid

ence—

this is n

ot v

ital activity

—at m

ost, is th

at may

be h

e mad

e one

or tw

o sp

ontan

eous resp

iratory

movem

ents b

ut it w

ould

be d

ifficult to

say, sin

ce

the m

achin

e was b

eing u

sed o

n h

im, w

heth

er these w

ere true sp

ontan

eous resp

ira-

tions or not, M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ould

you n

ow

describ

e the activ

ity an

d p

art that y

ou p

er-

form

ed in

the treatm

ent w

hich

follo

wed

your arriv

al?

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. T

ea ; as I say, all I d

id w

as simply

assist Dr. P

erry an

d

Dr. B

aite

r in d

oin

g th

e tra

cheoto

my. A

ll thre

e o

f us w

ork

ed to

geth

er in

mak

ing an

incisio

n in

the n

eck, tractin

g th

e neck

muscles o

ut o

f the w

ay, an

d

mak

ing a sm

all open

ing in

to th

e trachea n

ear the sp

ot w

here..th

e,trachea4

ad

already b

een b

lasted o

r tern o

w.s.+

_1

31

.,the frag

friEltriff th

e:bu

llet, and

insertin

g

alrerge-ersetifft"frerd

gatiW

itiba. in

to th

is hole

, and a

fter th

is the b

reath

ing

14;

apparatu

s was attach

ed to

this in

stead o

f the p

revio

us tu

be w

hich

had

been

placed here. M

r. SPE

CT

ER

. In c

onductin

g th

at o

pera

tion, d

id y

ou o

bse

rve a

ny in

terio

r

dam

age to

the P

residen

t? D

r. McC

utu

.srrn. Y

es. M

r. SpE

cTE

R. W

ill you describe that for me, please?

Dr. M

cCtE

ttertn. T

hat d

amag

e consisted

main

ly o

f a large am

ount o

f con-

tusio

n an

d b

emato

mu fo

rmatio

n in

the tissu

e lateral to th

e right sid

e of th

e

trachea a

nd th

e sw

ellin

g a

nd b

leedin

g a

round th

is site w

as to

such e

xte

nt

that th

e trachea w

as som

ewhat d

eviated

to th

e left side, n

ot a g

reat deal, b

ut to

a deg

ree at least that it req

uired

partial cu

tting o

f som

e of th

e neck

muscles in

ord

er to g

et good en

ough ex

posu

re to put in

the trach

eoto

my tu

be, b

ut th

ere was

a good d

eal of so

ft tissue d

amag

e and d

amag

e to th

e trachea itself w

here ap

par-

ently

the m

issile had

gone b

etween

the trach

ea on th

e right sid

e and th

e strap

fallacies which w

ere applied closely to It M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat o

ther treatm

ent w

as giv

en to

Presid

ent K

enned

y at th

e

time y

ou w

ere perfo

rmin

g th

e pro

cedures y

ou h

ave ju

st describ

ed?

Dr. M

cCtE

marro

. To th

e best o

f my k

now

ledge, th

e oth

er treatmen

t had

consisted

of th

e placem

ent o

f cutd

ow

n sites in

his ex

tremities, n

amely

, the m

ak-

ing o

f incisio

ns o

ver larg

e vein

s in th

e arms an

d, I b

elieve, in

the leg

; how

ever,

I'm n

ot su

re about th

at, since I w

as not p

ayin

g to

o m

uch

attentio

n to

that p

art

of th

e activity

, and larg

e plastic tu

bes w

ere placed

into

these v

ein

s for th

e

giv

ing o

f blo

od an

d flu

ids, an

d as I recall, h

e received

a certain am

ou

nt o

f blo

od

,

but I d

on't k

now

exactly

how

much

, since I w

as not actu

ally g

ivin

g th

e blo

od.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Do y

ou recall w

heth

er he d

escribed

It any m

ore p

recisely th

an

that? D

r. McC

urt-teran

. He d

id n

ot at th

at time.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Has h

e ever d

escribed

it any m

ore p

recisely fo

r you?

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. H

e has since that time.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. And w

hat d

escriptio

n h

as he g

iven

of it sin

ce that tim

e?

Dr. M

cCu

rmtarfn

. As w

ell as I can recall, th

e descrip

tion th

at he g

ave w

as

R9 I h

ave ju

st describ

ed, th

at It was a v

ery sm

all inju

ry, w

ith clear

33

cut, alth

ough so

mew

hat irreg

ular m

argin

s of less th

an a g

unner lu

au 1

a.a...o.ecee,,

with m

inimal 1,1,w

e.claniage surrounding it oriTirstrtm

e.e•a- ,---"1,--='- —

—3n-7-S

PE

CT

ER

. Now

, was th

ere anyth

ing Ieff'fb

r you to

observ

e of th

at bullet

wound, o

r had

the in

cision o

bliterated

it? D

r. McC

LE

LL

exn. The incision had obliterated it, essentially, the skin portion,

that Is. M

r. SPEC

TE

R. B

efore p

roceed

ing to

describ

e what y

ou d

id In

connectio

n w

ith

the trach

eosto

my, w

ill you m

ore fu

lly d

escribe y

our o

bserv

ation w

ith resp

ect to

the h

ead w

ound?

Dr. M

cCL

EL

Lay

n. A

s I took th

e positio

n at th

e head

of th

e table th

at I hav

e

already d

escribed

., to h

elp o

ut w

ith th

e tracheo

tom

y, I w

a .s_in

suchAp

ositam

e

examine-the .heatl. w

ound, and 1..n

aier that th

e right

posterio

r portio

n o

f the sk

ull h

ad b

een ex

tremely

-bla

sted. It h

ad b

een sh

at-

feTtat-trpparently7try-the'friF

ee-iif th

e so

that th

e parietal b

one w

as pro

-

traded

up th

rough th

e scalp an

d seem

ed to

be fractu

red alm

ost alo

ng its rig

ht

posterio

r half, as w

ell as som

e of th

e occip

ital bone b

eing fractu

red In

its

lateral half, an

d th

is spru

ng o

pen

the b

ones th

at I men

tioned

in su

ch a w

ay

that y

ou co

uld

actually

look d

ow

n in

to th

e skull cav

ity itself an

d see th

at

pro

bab

ly a th

ird o

r so, at least, o

f the b

rain tissu

e, posterio

r cerebral tissu

e and

som

e of th

e cerebellar tissu

e had

been

blasted

out. T

here w

as a large am

ount

of b

leedin

g w

hich

was o

ccurrin

g m

ainly

from

the larg

e ven

ous ch

annels in

the

skull which had been blasted open.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Was he alive at the tim

e you first saw him

?

Dr. M

cCuri aN

D. I really

could

n't say

, becau

se as I men

tioned

In th

e hectic

activity

—I really

could

n't say

what h

is blo

od p

ressure w

as or w

hat h

is pulse

was o

r anyth

ing o

f that so

rt. The o

nly

thin

g I co

uld

say th

at would

perh

aps

giv

e evid

ence—

this is n

ot v

ital activity

—at m

ost, Is th

at may

be h

e mad

e oue

or tw

o sp

ontan

eous resp

iratory

movem

ents b

ut it w

ould

be d

ifficult to

say, sin

ce

the machine w

as being used on him, w

hether these were true spontaneous respira-

tions o

r not.

Mr.

SPEC

TE

R. W

ould

you n

ow

describ

e the activ

ity an

d p

art that y

ou p

er-

form

ed in

the treatm

ent w

hich

follo

wed

your arriv

al?

Dr.

MC

CL

EL

LA

ND

. Yes ; a

s I say, a

ll I did

was sim

ply

assist D

r. Perry

and

Dr. B

axte

r in d

oin

g th

e tra

cheoto

my. A

ll thre

e o

f us w

ork

ed to

geth

er in

mak

ing an

incisio

n in

the n

eck, tractin

g th

e neck

muscles o

ut o

f the w

ay, an

d

makin

g a small o

pen

ing in

to th

e trachea n

ear the sp

ot w

here ,th

eLtrach

ea, had

already b

een b

lasted o

r torn

open

,iist-the frag

iftlyfirrth

e:Ikillet, an

d in

serting

a -tamgee-eaterneeT

rifergTO

ilartiitee' into this hole, and after 'trite th

e breath

ing

apparatu

s was attach

ed to

this In

stead of

the p

revio

us tu

be w

hich

had

been

placed here. M

r. SPE

CT

ER

. In co

nductin

g th

at operatio

n, d

id y

ou o

bserv

e any in

terior

dam

age to

the P

residen

t? D

r. McC

ritiaten. Y

ee. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ill you describe that for me, please?

Dr. M

cCm

tmarm

. That d

amag

e consisted

main

ly o

f a large am

ount o

f con-

tusio

n an

d h

emato

tua fo

rmatio

n In

the tissu

e lateral to th

e right sid

e of th

e

trachea an

d th

e swellin

g an

d b

leedin

g aro

und th

is site was to

such

exten

t

that th

e trachea w

as som

ewhat d

eviated

to th

e left side, n

ot a g

reat deal, b

ut to

a deg

ree at least that it req

uired

partial cu

tting o

f som

e of th

e neck

muscles in

ord

er to g

et good en

ough ex

posu

re to p

ut in

the trach

eoto

my tu

be, b

ut th

ere was

a good d

eal of so

ft tissue d

amag

e and d

amag

e to th

e trachea itself w

here ap

par-

ently

the m

issile had

gone b

etween

the trach

ea on th

e right sid

e and th

e strap

muscles w

hich were applied closely to it.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. What o

ther treatm

ent w

as giv

en to

Presid

ent K

enned

y at th

e

time y

ou w

ere perfo

rmin

g th

e pro

cedures y

ou h

ave ju

st describ

ed?

Dr.

MC

CL

EL

LA

ND

. To th

e best o

f my k

now

ledge, th

e oth

er treatmen

t had

consisted

of th

e placem

ent o

f cutd

ow

n sites In

his ex

tremities, n

amely

, the m

ak-

ing o

f incisio

ns o

ver larg

e vein

s in th

e arms an

d, I b

elieve, in

the leg

; how

ever.

I'm n

ot su

re about th

at, since I w

as not p

ayin

g to

o m

uch

attentio

n to

that p

art

of th

e activity

, and larg

e plastic tu

bes w

ere placed

into

these v

eins fo

r the

giving o

f blo

od an

d flu

ids, an

d as I recall, h

e received

a certain am

ount o

f blo

od

but I d

on't k

now

exactly

how

much

, since I w

as not actu

ally g

ivin

g th

e blo

od.

3IcC

tiettazea. Dr. M

alcolm

Perry

, Dr. C

harles B

axter, D

r. Charles C

ren-

shaw

, Dr. Jam

es Carrico

, Dr. P

aul P

eters. siv

rinr-Irert,r-11ey all p

resent at th

e time y

ou arriv

ed?

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. T

hey

we g

ot p

resent w

hen

I arrived

.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Will y

ort-atartaritffrlittaleslA

tetifei'e plesen

t?

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. Starting

with

the o

nes w

ho w

ere presen

t, I'm so

rry, th

e

ones w

ho w

ere presen

t when

I arrived

were D

rs. Carrico

. Perry

and B

axter.

The o

thers I m

entio

ned

arrived

subseq

uen

tly o

r about th

e same tim

e that I d

id.

Mr.

SPEC

TE

R. T

hen, w

hat o

ther d

octo

rs, if any, a

rrived a

fter y

ou d

id, in

addition to those whom

you have already mentioned?

Dr. M

cCtraiarto

. In ad

ditio

n, th

e ones th

at arrived

afterward

s, were D

r.

Ken

neth

Saly

er,. - m

r SP

EC

TE

R. S

-a-i-y-e-T?

Dr. M

eCi rr.r A

ND

. S-a-1

-y-e-r, D

r. Fouad

, F-o

-u-a-d

Basb

our, D

r. Donald

Sel-

din

—

Mr. S

PE

crea_ S-e-i-d-i-n?

Dr. M

eCiem

tasm. S

-e-l-d-1-n—I believe that's all.

Mr.

SPEC

TE

R. W

hat d

id y

ou o

bserv

e as to P

residen

t Ken

ned

y's co

nditio

n at

that tim

e? D

r. MC

CL

EL

LA

ND

. Well, on initially com

ing into the room and inspecting him

from

a d

istance o

f only

2 o

r 3 fe

et a

s I put o

n a

pair o

f surg

ical g

loves, it

was o

bvio

us th

at he h

ad su

stained

a pro

bab

ly m

ortal b

ead in

jury

, and th

at

his face w

as extrem

ely sw

ollen

and su

ffused

with

blo

od ap

peared

cyan

otic,—

Mr. S

PE

CW

L "C

yan

otic"—

may

I interru

pt—

just w

hat d

o y

ou m

ean b

y th

at in

lay term

s? D

r. McC

i.r..u.a.ao

. This m

ean b

luish

disco

loratio

n, b

luish

-black

disco

loratio

n

of th

e tissue. T

he ey

es were so

mew

hat p

rotu

beran

t, which

Is usu

ally seen

after massiv

e bead

inju

ries den

otin

g in

creased in

tracranial p

ressure, an

d it

seemed

that h

e perh

aps w

as not m

akin

g, at th

e time at least, sp

ontan

eous resp

i-

ratory

movem

ents, b

ut w

as receivin

g artificial resp

iration fro

m a m

achin

e, an

anesth

esia mach

ine.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Who w

as operatin

g th

at mach

ine?

Dr. M

cCi.g

uasm

. The m

achin

e—th

ere was a ch

angeo

ver, ju

st as I came in

, one

of th

e docto

rs in th

e room

, I don't recall w

hich

one, h

ad b

een o

peratin

g w

hat

we call an

Interm

ittent p

ositiv

e pressu

re breath

ing m

achin

e.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Had

that m

achin

e been

utilized

prio

r to y

our arriv

al?

Dr. M

cCL

EL

Leen

. It was in

use as I arriv

ed, y

es, and ab

out th

e same tim

e I

arrived

—th

is would

be o

ne o

ther d

octo

r who cam

e in th

e room

that I fo

rgot

about—

Dr. Jen

kin

s, M. T

. Jenkin

s, pro

fessor o

f anesth

esiolo

gy, cam

e into

the ro

om

with

a larger an

esthesia m

achin

e, which

is a better ty

pe m

achin

e

with

which

to m

aintain

contro

l of resp

iration, an

d th

is was th

en attach

ed to

the tu

be in

the P

residen

t's tracheo

tom

; anyw

ay, resp

iratory

movem

ents w

ere

bein

g m

ade fo

r him

with

these tw

o m

achin

es, which

were in

the p

rocess o

f

being changed when I cam

e in. T

hen

, as I took m

y p

ost to

help

with

the trach

eoto

my, I w

as standin

g at

the e

nd o

f the stre

tcher o

n w

hic

h th

e P

resid

ent ,w

as ly

ing, Im

media

te) a

t

his

for p

urp

oses o

f hold

ing a trach

eoto

m, o

r a retractery

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. W

hat d

id y

ou o

bserv

e, if anyth

ing, as to

the statu

s of th

e neck

wound w

hen

you first arriv

ed?

Dr. M

cCr..x

.t.taiva. T

he n

eck w

ound, w

hen

I first arrived

, was at th

is time

converted

into

a tracheo

tom

y in

cision. T

he sk

in in

cision h

ad b

een m

ade b

y

Dr. P

erry, an

d h

e told

me—

although I d

id n

ot see th

at—th

at be h

ad m

ade th

e

incision

t12ppoa,g

snl a.4

44e te

r=

e h.

,

Mr.

SPEC

TE

R. D

o y

ou recall w

heth

er he d

escribed

it any m

ore p

recisely th

an

that? D

r. MC

CL

EL

LA

-ND

. He did not at that tim

e.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Has h

e ever d

escribed

It any m

ore p

recisely fo

r you?

Dr. M

CC

LE

LL

AN

D. H

e has sin

ce that tim

e.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. And w

hat d

escriptio

n h

as he g

iven

of it sin

ce that tim

e?

Dr. M

eCtettaien

. As w

ell as I can recall, th

e descrip

tion th

at he g

ave w

as

essentially

as I hav

e just d

escribed

, that it w

as a very

small In

jury

, with

clear

3:

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. I do.

Mr. S

eem. E

a, Would

you state y

our fu

ll nam

e, please?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. C

harles Rufus B

axter.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What is your profession, sir?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. I am

a med

ical docto

r of su

rgery

, gen

eral surg

eon.

Mr. S

rEm

ma. W

ill you outline briefly your educational background?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. U

niv

ersity o

f Tex

as-1948 th

rough 1

950, S

outh

western

Med

ical

Sch

ool. 1

950 th

rough 1

954. 1

955 straig

ht m

edicin

e intern

ship

, 1956 m

edicin

e

residen

cy—

intern

al med

icine resid

ency

, 1956 th

rough 1

958, su

rgical research

at

Bro

oke A

rmy M

edical C

enter, 1

958 th

rough 1

964—

surg

ical residen

cy, an

d 1

984

thro

ugh th

e presen

t—th

is is 1964, I g

ot o

ut o

f the A

rmy—

in 1

958, 1

958 th

rough

1962—

surg

ery resid

ency

, and 1

962 u

ntil n

ow

, assistant p

rofesso

r of su

rgery

.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And are you board certified, D

octor?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd what boards have you passed?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. T

he Am

erican Board of S

urgeons.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

hat year were you so certified?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. 1963.

MT

. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd what is your specific title at the m

edical school?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. A

ssistant professor of surgery.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

you h

ave o

ccasion to

aid in

the treatm

ent o

f Presid

ent K

en-

ned

y at P

arklan

d H

osp

ital?

Dr. 13exT

EB

. Yes.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

ill you outline briefly the circumstances surrounding your

bein

g called

to ren

der su

ch assistan

ce?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. I w

as conductin

g th

e studen

t health

service in

the h

ours o

f 12

to 1

and w

as contacted

there b

y th

e superv

isor o

f the em

ergen

cy ro

om

, who to

ld

me th

at the P

residen

t was o

n th

e way

to th

e emerg

ency

room

, hav

ing b

een sh

ot.

I nen

t on a d

ead ran

to th

e emerg

ency

room

as fast as I could

and it to

ok m

e

about 3

or 4

min

utes to

get th

ere.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Approxim

ately what tim

e did you arrive at the emergency room

?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. I think it w

as 12:40—thereabouts.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

ho was perstrnt-at that tim

e?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. D

r. Carrico and D

r. Jones and Dr. Jenkins—

several nurses.

Mr. S

PE

crEa. C

ap y

ou id

entify

the n

urses?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. Y

es: Mrs. N

elson—

and w

ho else? T

here w

ere two o

r three

others whose nam

es—M

iss Henchliffe w

as th

ere.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Miss B

owron?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. W

ho? M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

as Miss B

owron there?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. Y

es ; I believe so.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Were any other nurses there?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. O

ne or two m

ore, but I'm not sure of their nam

es.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Can

you id

entify

any o

ther d

octo

rs who w

ere there at th

at

time?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. O

h, let's see—

I'm n

ot su

re wheth

er the o

thers cam

e befo

re or

afte

r I did

. There

was C

rensh

aw

, Pete

rs, and K

em

p C

lark

, Dr. B

ash

our

finally

came. I b

elieve Jack

ie Hunt—

yes—

she w

as, I believ

e she w

as the an

es-

thesiologist, who cam

e. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

as Dr. D

on Curtis there?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. I'm

not sure—I just don't rem

ember.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. When you arrived, w

hat did you observe as to th

e conditio

n o

f

the P

residen

t? D

r. BA

XT

ER

. He w

as very

obvio

usly

in ex

tremla. T

here w

as a large g

apin

g

wound in

the sk

ull w

hich

was co

vered

at that tim

e with

blo

od, an

d its ex

tent

was n

ot im

med

iately d

etermin

ed. H

is eyes w

ere bulg

ing, th

e pupils w

ere fixed

and dilated

and d

eviated

outw

ard, b

oth

pupils w

ere dev

iated laterally

. At

that tim

e his b

reathin

g w

as bein

g assisted

so th

at wheth

er he w

as breath

ing

on his own or not, I couldn't determ

ine.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. In what w

ay was h

is breath

ing b

eing assisted

?

Dr. B

krin

a. With

an an

esthesia m

achin

e.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Would

you co

ntin

ue to

describ

e what y

ou o

bserv

ed as to

his

conditio

n?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. T

here w

ere no p

ulses th

at I could

feel presen

t. The an

esthesi-

ologist told me that he did still have a heartbeat.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Who is that w

ho said that to you?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. W

ell, I believ

e this w

as Carrico

who said

that h

is heart w

as still

beatin

g. T

here

was p

rese

nt a

t the tim

e tw

o in

travenous c

ath

ete

rs in p

lace

with

fluid

s runnin

g. W

e were in

form

ed at th

at time—

well, h

avin

g lo

oked

over

the rest o

f the b

ody, th

e only

oth

er wound w

as in h

is neck

, that w

e saw.

Dr. C

arrico said

that h

e had

observ

ed a trach

eal laceration. A

t that m

om

ent

Dr. Jo

nes, I b

elieve, w

as placin

g in

a left anterio

r chest tu

be b

ecause o

f this

info

rmatio

n. W

e pro

ceeded

at that tim

e with

a tracheo

tom

y.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Who perform

ed the tracheotomy?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. D

r. Perry and m

yself, with the assistance of D

r. McC

lelland. and

believ

e that's all—

there m

ay h

ave b

een o

ne m

ore p

erson th

at held

the re-

tractor.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What else, if an

yth

ing, d

id y

ou d

o fo

r Presid

ent K

enned

y at

that tim

e? D

r. BA

XT

ER

. Durin

g th

e tracheo

tom

y, I h

elped

with

the in

sertion o

f a right

anterio

r chest tu

be, an

d th

en h

elped

Dr. P

erry co

mplete th

e tracheo

tom

y. A

t

that p

oin

t none o

f us co

uld

hear a h

eartbeat p

resent. A

pparen

tly th

is had

ceased

durin

g th

e tracheo

tom

y an

d th

e chest tu

be p

lacemen

t.

We th

en g

ave h

im o

r Dr. P

erry an

d D

r. Clark

alternated

giv

ing h

im clo

sed

chest card

iac massag

e only

until w

e could

get a eard

iosco

pe h

ooked

up to

tell us if th

ere were an

y d

etectible h

eartbeat electrically

presen

t, at least, and

there w

as none, an

d w

e discu

ssed at th

at mom

ent w

heth

er we sh

ould

open

the

chest to

attempt to

reviv

e him

, while th

e closed

chest m

assage w

as goin

g o

n,

and w

e bad

an o

pportu

nity

to lo

ok at h

is head

wound th

en an

d saw

that th

e

dam

age w

as bey

ond h

ope, th

at is, in a w

ord

—literally

the rig

ht sid

e of h

is

bead

had

been

blo

wn o

ff. With

this an

d th

e observ

ation th

at the cereb

ellum

was p

resent—

a large q

uan

tity o

f brain

was p

resent o

n th

e cart, well—

we felt

that su

ch an

additio

nal h

eroic attem

pt w

as not w

arranted

, and w

e did

not p

ro-

nounce h

im d

ead b

ut ceased

our effo

rts, and aw

aited th

e priest an

d last rites

befo

re we p

ronounced

him

dead

.

Mr. S

pecasa. D

id th

e priest th

en arriv

e to p

erform

the last rites?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. Y

es. M

r. SP

EL

i tat. At w

hat time w

as he pronounced dead?

Dr. B

AIT

ER

. As I recall, it w

as 1 :0

8. I'm

not su

re, it may

hav

e been

that th

at

was O

swald

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. B

ut it w

as appro

xim

ately 1

o'clo

ck? T

hen

, could

the tim

e of

death

be fix

ed w

ith an

y p

recision?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. I d

on't th

ink so

—th

e time elap

sing in

all of th

is resuscitatio

n

and th

e time th

e heart actu

ally ceased

, I don't th

ink o

ne co

uld

be v

ery su

re of it.

It was so

metim

e betw

een a q

uarter to

I and 1

o'clo

ck.

Mr. S

ercrEa. H

are you n

ow

describ

ed all o

f the effo

rts which

were m

ade to

save th

e life of th

e Presid

ent?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. O

nly

with

the ex

ceptio

n, I th

ink, o

f the flu

ids th

at were ad

min

is-

tered. H

e was g

iven

hydro

cortiso

ne b

ecause o

f his p

revio

us m

edical co

nditio

n.

He w

as giv

en n

o n

egativ

e blo

od b

ecause th

e blo

od lo

ss was rath

er fierce and,

I believ

e that's all.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What o

ther d

octo

rs arrived

durin

g th

e course o

f the treatment,

in ad

ditio

n to

those w

hom

you h

ave alread

y m

entio

ned

?

Dr. B

AX

TE

R. I d

on't recall—

I know

that th

ere were m

ore d

octo

rs presen

t In

the ro

om

, but th

eir nam

es, I'm n

ot su

re of. T

he reaso

n I'm

not su

re is becau

se

we h

ad so

me o

f the sam

e crew an

d a d

ifferent crew

on th

e Govern

or an

d o

n

Osw

ald, an

d I'm

afraid th

at I've g

otten

them

mix

ed u

p.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Now

, will y

ou d

escribe in

as much

particu

larity as y

ou can

the

natu

re of th

e bead

wound?

Dr. B

AIT

ER

. The o

nly

wound th

at I actually

saw—

Dr. C

lark ex

amin

ed th

is

above th

e nian

ubriu

m o

f the stern

um

, the stern

al notch

. This w

ound w

as in

temporal p

arietal plate o

f bone laid

outw

ard to

the sid

e and th

ere was a larg

e

area, oh, I w

ould

say 6

by 8

or 1

0 cm

. of lacerated

brain

oozin

g fro

m th

is wound,

41

there, an

d th

en I recall D

r. Jenkin

s from

the A

nesth

esia Dep

artmen

t, and D

r.

Seld

in, D

r. Cren

shaw

, and th

at's about all th

e docto

rs—I co

uld

thin

k o

f oth

ers pro

bab

ly, b

ut I can

't remem

ber n

ow

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. C

an you identify any other nurses who w

ere there? D

r. CU

RT

IS. N

o ; I can

't—I w

asn't p

ayin

g atten

tion to

the n

urses.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Durin

g th

e course o

f your p

resence n

ear Presid

ent K

enned

y,

did

you h

ave an

y o

pportu

nity

to o

bserv

e any w

ounds o

n h

is body?

Dr. C

rays. A

fter I had

com

pleted

the cu

tdow

n, I w

ent aro

und to

the rig

ht

side o

f the p

atient an

d saw

the h

ead w

ound.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

hat did you observe there? D

r. errata. Oh—

fragm

ents o

f bone an

d a g

ross in

jury

to th

e cranial co

nten

ts, w

ith co

pio

us am

ou

nts o

f hem

orrh

age.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did you observe any other w

ound on the President?

Dr. C

UR

TIS

. No ; I d

idn't. A

s I said b

efore, I n

oticed

the m

ass in th

e pre-

tracheal area.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

_ A

nd w

hen

you say

"as you said

befo

re," you m

ean in

our

previous discussions prior to going on the record here? D

r. Cra

ys. Y

es.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. An

d w

ill yo

u state n

ow

for th

e record

wh

at yo

u d

id n

otice w

ith

respect to

the trach

eal area? D

r. CU

RT

IS. T

he P

residen

t's head

was ex

tend

ed

Or

hyperex

tended

and I

no

ticed th

at In th

e sup

erasternal n

otch

there w

as a mass th

at loo

ked

like a

hematom

a to me, or a blood clot in the tissues.

Mr. S

pE

t.ir..a. How

big

was th

at hem

atom

a? D

r. Cray

s. Oh, I th

ink it w

as 5 cm

. in size.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What color w

as It? D

r. Cro

ats. It had

no

colo

r—th

ere was ju

st skin

ov

erlyin

g it.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What did it appear to be?

Dr. C

utras. P

rob

ably

a hem

atom

a. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

id y

ou o

bserv

e any p

erforatio

n o

r hole in

the P

residen

t's th

roat?

Dr. C

triars. No ; I d

idn't. B

ut th

at doesn

't mean

it wasn

't there.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did you have an opportunity to look closely for it?

Dr. C

UR

TIS

. I focu

sed m

y atten

tion o

n h

is neck

for an

instan

t, and th

at's all.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

you h

ear any d

iscussio

n am

ong an

y o

f the d

octo

rs about

an o

pen

ing

on

his n

eck?

Dr. C

rave. N

o; I d

idn't.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

you m

ake an

y w

ritten rep

ort co

ncern

ing y

our activ

ity

on

the P

residen

t? D

r. Cray

s. No ; I d

idn't.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Hav

e you an

y n

otes o

r writin

gs o

f any so

rt concern

ing y

our

wo

rk w

ith th

e Presid

ent?

Dr. C

UR

TIS

. No.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Hav

e you talk

ed to

any rep

resentativ

es of th

e Fed

eral Gov-

ernm

ent ab

out y

our p

articipatio

n in

treating P

residen

t Ken

ned

y b

efore to

day

?

Dr. C

UR

TIS

. No ; I haven't.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Prio

r to th

e time th

at we w

ent o

n th

e record

here w

ith th

e

cou

rt repo

rter, did

yo

u an

d I h

ave a v

ery b

rief con

versatio

n co

ncern

ing

the

purp

ose o

f the d

epositio

n an

d th

e gen

eral questio

ns w

hich

I would

ask y

ou o

n

the reco

rd?

Dr. C

urrie. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd

is the In

form

ation

wh

ich y

ou

hav

e pro

vid

ed o

n th

e record

the sam

e as that w

hich

yo

u g

ave m

e befo

re the co

urt rep

orter started

takin

g

notes? D

r. Cta

ns. Y

es.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Do y

ou h

ave an

yth

ing to

add w

hich

you th

ink w

ould

be h

elpfu

l to

the C

om

missio

n in

Its wo

rk?

Dr. C

rays. N

o ; I d

on't th

ink so

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. T

hank you very much, D

r. Curtis, for com

ing here today. D

r. Cram

s. All rig

ht.

TE

ST

IMO

NY

OF

DR

- FO

UA

D A

. BA

SH

OU

R

The testim

ony o

f Dr. F

ou

ad A

. Bash

our w

as taken

at 1 :1

5 p

.m., o

n M

arch 2

5,

1964. at P

arklan

d M

emorial H

osp

ital, Dallas, T

ex., b

y M

r. Arlen

Specter, as-

sistant counsel of the President's C

omtnission.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. May

the reco

rd sh

ow

that D

r. Found B

ashour h

as appeared

pur-

suan

t to a letter o

f request fro

m th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n o

n th

e Assassin

a- tio

n o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y, In

connectio

n w

ith th

e Com

missio

n's in

quiry

into

all of th

e factors su

rroundin

g th

e assassinatio

n o

f the P

residen

t, inclu

din

g m

edi-

cal treatmen

t received

at Park

land H

osp

ital, and D

r. Bash

our's k

now

ledge, if

any, as related to the treatment in the em

ergency room.

With

that p

relimin

ary statem

ent o

f purp

ose, D

r. Bash

our, w

ould

you m

ind

rising And then raise your right hand?

Do y

ou so

lemnly

swear th

at the testim

ony y

ou g

ive b

efore th

e Presid

ent's

Com

missio

n in

this d

epositio

n p

roceed

ing w

ill be th

e truth

, the w

hole tru

th,

and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Dr. B

AR

HO

UR

. I d

o.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Would you state your full nam

e for the record, please? D

r. BA

nnotra. F-o-u-a-d (spelling), F

ouad A. B

ashour. M

r. Sm

arts. What is y

our p

rofessio

n, sir?

Mr. B

ASH

OU

B. I am

an in

ternist w

ith a sp

ecialization

in card

iolo

gy

. I am as-

sociate professor of medicine.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Are you duly licensed by the S

tate of Texas to practice m

edicine

here? D

r. BA

snora. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd are you board certified at the present time?

Dr. B

Asito

rra. No, sir; I d

on't h

ave m

y b

oard

becau

se I am n

ot y

et a citizen.

I will b

e takin

g m

y citizen

ship

this y

ear, I hope, an

d th

en I w

ill he ab

le to sit

for th

e bo

ard.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

you h

ave o

ccasion to

assist in th

e treatmen

t of P

residen

t

Kennedy back on N

ovember 22, 1963?

Dr. S

eSH

OU

R. Y

es ; we w

ere called fro

m th

e din

ing

roo

m, th

e do

ctors' d

inin

g

room, and w

e went directly to the P

resident Kennedy room

. M

r. Seem

an. When you say "w

e" whom

do you mean by that?

Dr. S

AS

HO

TIR

. Dr. S

eldin and myself—

we left the dining room

and went right

straigh

t do

wn

to th

e Presid

ent's ro

om

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd what is D

r. Seldin's first nam

e? D

r. Bean

otar. D

on

ald.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

.. And w

hat is his specialty, if any? D

r. SA

SH

OC

R. H

e's chairm

an o

f the d

epartm

ent o

f med

icine an

d p

rofesso

r of

med

icine. H

e is a specialist an

d a reco

gn

ized fam

ou

s specialist in

renal d

iseases.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

hat, in lay language, does that facet of medicine involve?

Dr. B

AS

HO

UR

. Kidney diseases.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did D

r. Seidin accom

pany you into the emergency room

where

Presid

ent K

enn

edy

was lo

cated?

Dr. B

AS

EO

UR

. We w

ent to the room together and then I w

as left alone because

this is a p

rob

lem—

a heart p

rob

lem.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did D

r. Seldin rem

ain in the room w

ith you? D

r. BA

sEto

tta. Well, h

e came an

d stay

ed fo

r—he ju

st left the ro

om

after we

came in.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. How

long did he stay in the room?

Dr. B

Asuocra. A

few seconds.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. W

ho was present in the room

when you arrived ?

Dr. B

Asn

otra. W

hen

I arrived

, Dr. K

emp C

lark w

as doin

g th

e cardiac m

as-

sage o

n th

e Presid

ent, D

r. Jenkin

s was In

charg

e of co

ntro

lling artificial resp

ira-

tion

of th

e Presid

ent, an

d th

e pro

bab

ly th

ere were so

me th

ree or fo

ur—

I don't

remem

ber. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd what did you o

bserv

e the P

residen

t's conditio

n to

be at th

e

time y

ou arriv

ed?

Dr. B

Assu

nm

. Th

e Presid

ent w

as lyin

g o

n th

e stretcher, th

e head

wo

un

d w

as

61

f AN

Tak (/ 'tit

L I 6tk1vtlA

iva

I

TE

ST

IMO

NY

OF

DR

. KE

NN

ET

H E

VE

RE

TT

SA

LY

ER

The testim

ony o

f Dr. K

enneth

Everett S

alyer w

as taken

t at 6:1

8 p

.m., o

n

March

28. 1

964, at P

arklan

d M

emorial H

osp

ital. Dallas. T

ex., b

y M

r. Arlen

Spec-

ter, assistant co

unsel o

f the P

residen

t's Com

missio

n.

Mr. &

Terse

. May th

e re

cord

show

that D

r. Kenneth

Saly

er is p

rese

nt In

response to

an in

quiry

that h

e appear to

hav

e his d

epositio

n tak

en in

connectio

n

with

the in

quiries b

eing co

nducted

by th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n o

n th

e Assess!.

natio

n o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y, w

hich

is lookin

g in

to all facets o

f the sh

ootin

g.

inclu

din

g th

e wounds o

f the P

residen

t and th

e care he receiv

ed at P

arklan

d

Hosp

ital. W

ith th

at prelim

inary

statemen

t of p

urp

ose. D

r. Saly

er, will y

ou stan

d u

p

and raise y

our rig

ht h

and?

Do y

ou so

lemnly

swear th

at the testim

ony y

ou w

ill giv

e befo

re the P

residen

t's

Com

missio

n in

the co

urse o

f this d

epositio

n w

ill be th

e truth

, the w

hole tru

th,

and n

oth

ing b

ut th

e truth

, so h

elp y

ou G

od?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I do.

Mr. S

PE

CT

411. H

ave y

ou h

ad an

opportu

nity

to ex

amin

e the d

ocu

men

t or th

e

Execu

tive o

rder creatin

g th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n an

d R

ules fo

r the tak

ing

of testim

ony?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. Y

es ; I have.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And are you w

illing to have your deposition taken today without

hav

ing th

e form

al three d

ays o

f written

notice, w

hich

you h

ave a rig

ht to

, if

you w

ish?

Dr. S

errna. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. Y

ou are w

illing to

waiv

e that rig

ht, is th

at right?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ould you state your full name for the record, please?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R- K

enneth

Everett S

alyer.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

- What is your profession?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. P

hysician.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Are you duly licensed to practice m

edicine by the State of T

exas?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. Y

es; I am.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

ould

you o

utlin

e briefly

your ed

ucatio

nal b

ackgro

und,

please? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. A B

.S. d

egree at th

e Univ

ersity o

f Kan

sas, an M

.D. d

egree at th

e

Univ

ersity o

f Kan

sas, and in

ternsh

ip at P

arklan

d, an

d n

ow

a first year resid

ent

in su

rgery

at Park

land H

osp

ital.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. In w

hat y

ear did

you g

raduate fro

m th

e Univ

ersity o

f Kan

sas

Med

ical Sch

ool?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. 1962.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And how

old are you, Dr. S

alyer?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I am

27. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ill you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your being

called in

to assist in

the treatm

ent o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. W

ell, for th

e month

of N

ovem

ber, as p

art of o

ur ro

tation o

n su

r-

gery

, I spen

t that m

onth

on n

euro

surg

ery, an

d b

eing o

n call th

at day

for an

y

emerg

encies w

hich

com

e in to

our em

ergen

cy ro

om

related to

neu

rosu

rgical

pro

blem

s, we w

ould

be called

dow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

to see th

ese, and I

was u

pstairs v

iewin

g a m

ovie w

hen

I heard

that th

e Presid

ent h

ad arriv

ed an

d

so I th

ought I sh

ould

go d

ow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

and see w

hat th

e altos-

don w

as. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd, upon your arrival at the emergency room

, who w

as present?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. O

h, I d

on't recall—

I know

that th

ere were a ro

om

full o

f doc-

tors—

I could

list specific o

nes th

at I remem

ber if y

ou w

ould

like.

Mr. S

escres. Would

you p

lease?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I d

on't really

thin

k I co

uld

giv

e you ev

ery o

ne, b

ut I rem

ember

Dr. Jen

kin

s and D

r. Perry

and D

r. Bax

ter, and also

Dr. B

ob M

cClellan

d an

d

Dr. C

arrico an

d D

r. Cren

shaw

, and I th

ink a D

r. Gen

e Akin

was th

ere also—

at that tim

e, when

I first came In

.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Can you think of any others?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

u; I d

on't recall an

y o

thers—

there co

uld

hav

e been

som

e, there

were a lo

t of p

eople so

rt of m

ovin

g in

and o

ut. T

here certain

ly w

ere a lot o

f

nurses in

there at th

at time.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

- Can you identify any of the nurses w

ho were there?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

o; I can't. M

r. Sen

crea. What w

as the P

residen

t's conditio

n at th

e time y

ou arriv

ed?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. It w

as critical.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

- What did you observe about him

with respect to any w

ounds he

may

hav

e sustain

ed?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. W

ell, I observ

ed th

at he d

id h

ave so

me su

ckin

g w

ound o

f som

e

type on his n

eck, an

d th

at he also

had

a wound o

f his rig

ht tem

poral region—

these w

ere the tw

o m

ain w

ounds.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

you h

ave an

opportu

nity

to o

bserv

e his th

roat?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. N

o; I really

did

not. I th

ink th

ere were a lo

t of p

eople—

a

lot o

f docto

rs more clo

sely aro

und h

im. I m

ight m

entio

n also

, I thin

k ju

st

right a

fter I c

am

e In

the ro

om

Dr. C

lark

and D

r. Gro

ssman a

lso a

rrived.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Doctor w

ho? D

r. SA

LT

ER

- Dr. G

rossm

an, ju

st briefly

. He's a n

euro

surg

eon also

.

Mr. S

escrEn. W

hat is h

is nam

e?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. D

r. Gro

ssman

—B

ob G

rossm

an. H

e was ju

st there, I th

ink,

briefly. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

ow long w

as he there?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I co

uld

n't say

—I'm

not su

re he cam

e in th

e room

. I know

they

were to

geth

er—I can

not say

that fo

r sure.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. To w

hat extent did Dr. C

renshaw participate?

Dr. S

ArrE

R. D

r. Cren

shaw

particip

ated ab

out th

e exten

t that I d

id. W

e were

occu

pied

in m

akin

g su

re an I.V

. was g

oin

g an

d h

angin

g u

p a b

ottle o

f blo

od.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Is the—is D

r. Crenshaw

a resident?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. Y

es, be is th

ird-y

ear residen

t. That's th

e reason I rem

ember

him

specifically

becau

se we w

ere sort o

f work

ing th

ere togeth

er on th

at.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. I had

asked

you a m

om

ent ag

o w

heth

er you h

ad an

opportu

nity

to o

bserv

e the co

nditio

n o

f the P

residen

t's thro

at.

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. R

ight. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat was your answ

er to that question?

Dr. S

enrea. T

he an

swer w

as—th

ere were a lo

t of d

octo

rs standin

g aro

und.

and I d

idn't really

get to

observ

e the n

ature o

f the w

ound in

the th

roat.

Mr. .S

PE

CT

ER

. At ap

pro

xim

ately w

hat tim

e did

you arriv

e at the em

ergen

cy

room

where th

e Presid

ent w

as situated

?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I really don't know

.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as done fo

r the P

residen

t by w

ay o

f treatmen

t that y

ou

observed? D

r. SA

LY

ER

. Well, an

adeq

uate airw

ay ev

entu

ally, o

f course, so

me ex

ternal

cardiac m

assage—

he h

ad I.V

.'s--intrav

enous flu

ids g

oin

g in

a num

ber o

f sites,

and all o

f the acu

te measu

res we ad

min

istered h

im.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. I did

n't h

ear you at th

e end o

f your an

swer.

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I said

—all o

f the m

any o

ther m

easures th

at we ad

min

istered—

I don't recall sp

ecifically so

me o

f the o

ther d

etails as far as med

ications an

d

so fo

rth.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What d

id y

ou o

bserv

e with

respect to

the h

ead w

ound?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I cam

e in o

n th

e left side o

f him

and n

oticed

that h

is majo

r

wound se

em

ed to

he in

his rig

ht te

mpora

l are

a, a

t least fro

m th

e p

oin

t of

view

that I co

uld

see him

, and o

ther th

an th

at—noth

ing o

ther th

an h

e did

hav

e

a gap

ing scalp

wound—

cranial w

ound.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Has an

yone fro

m th

e Fed

eral Govern

men

t talked

to y

ou ab

out

your o

bserv

ations o

f this m

atter?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

o one has.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Do y

ou h

ave an

yth

ing to

add w

hich

you th

ink m

ay b

e of aid

to

the P

residen

t's Com

missio

n in

its inquiry

?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. N

o. I believe not.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Thank you very m

uch, Dr. S

alyer.

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. T

hank you. 81

TE

ST

IMO

NY

OF

DR

. KE

NN

ET

H E

VE

RE

TT

SA

LY

ER

The testim

ony o

f Dr. K

enneth

Everett S

alyer w

as taken

t at 6:1

5 p

.m.. o

n

March

25. 1

964, at P

arklan

d M

emorial H

osp

ital, Dallas, T

ex., b

y M

r. Arlen

Spec-

ter, assistant co

un

sel of th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. May

the reco

rd sh

ow

that D

r. Ken

neth

Saly

er is presen

t in

response to

an In

quiry

that h

e appear to

hav

e his d

epositio

n tak

en in

connectio

n

with

the In

quiries b

eing co

nducted

by th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n o

n th

e Assassi-

natio

n o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y, w

hich

is lookin

g in

to all facets o

f the sh

ootin

g,

inclu

din

g th

e wounds o

f the P

residen

t and th

e care he receiv

ed at P

arklan

d

Ho

spital.

With

that p

relimin

ary statem

ent o

f purp

ose, D

r. Saly

er, will y

ou stan

d u

p

and raise y

our rig

ht h

and?

Do y

ou

solem

nly

swear th

at the testim

on

y y

ou

will g

ive b

efore th

e Presid

ent's

Com

missio

n in

the co

urse o

f this d

epositio

n w

ill be th

e truth

, the w

hole tru

th,

and

no

thin

g b

ut th

e truth

, so h

elp y

ou

Go

d?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I do.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

_ H

ave y

ou h

ad an

op

portu

nity

to ex

amin

e the d

ocu

men

t or th

e E

xecu

tive o

rder creatin

g th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n an

d R

ules fo

r the tak

ing

of testim

ony?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. Y

es; I have. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd are you willing to have your deposition taken today w

ithout h

avin

g th

e form

al three d

ays o

f written

no

tice, wh

ich y

ou

hav

e a righ

t to, if

yo

u w

ish?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. Y

ou are w

illing to

waiv

e that rig

ht, is th

at right?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ould you state your full name for the record, please?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. K

enneth Everett S

alyer. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat is your profession? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Physician.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Are you duly licensed to practice m

edicine by the State of T

exas? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes; I am

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd

wo

uld

you

outlin

e briefly

yo

ur ed

ucatio

nal b

ackgro

und,

please? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. A B

.S. d

egree at th

e Univ

ersity o

f Kan

sas, an M

.D. d

egree at th

e U

niv

ersity o

f Kan

sas, and in

ternsh

ip at P

arklan

d, an

d n

ow

a first year resid

ent

in su

rgery

at Park

land H

osp

ital. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. In

what y

ear did

you g

raduate fro

m th

e Univ

ersity o

f Kan

sas M

edical School?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. 1962.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And how

old are you, Dr. S

alyer? D

r. Se.trea. I am

27

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ill you relate briefly the circumstances surrounding your being

called in

to assist In

the treatm

ent o

f Presid

ent K

enn

edy

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Well, fo

r the m

onth

of N

ovem

ber, as p

art of o

ur ro

tation o

n su

r-g

ery, I sp

ent th

at mo

nth

on

neu

rosu

rgery

, and

bein

g o

n call th

at day

for an

y

emerg

encies w

hich

com

e in to

our em

ergen

cy ro

om

related to

neu

rosu

rgical

pro

blem

s, we w

ou

ld b

e called d

ow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

to see th

ese, sad I

was u

pstairs v

iewin

g a m

ov

ie wh

en I h

eard th

at the P

residen

t had

arrived

and

so I th

ought I sh

ould

go d

ow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

and see w

hat th

e situa-

tion

was.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And, upon your arrival at the em

ergency room, w

ho was present?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. O

h, I d

on

't recall—I k

no

w th

at there w

ere a roo

m fu

ll of d

oc-

tors—

I could

list specific o

nes th

at I remem

ber if y

ou w

ould

like.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Would you please?

Dr. S

win

e. I don't really

thin

k I co

uld

giv

e you ev

ery o

ne, b

ut I rem

ember

Dr. Jen

kin

s and D

r. Perry

and D

r. Bax

ter, and also

Dr. B

ob M

cClellan

d an

d

Dr. C

arrico an

d D

r. Cren

shaw

, and I th

ink a D

r. Gen

e Akin

was th

ere also—

at that tim

e, wh

en I first cam

e in.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Can you think of any others?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

o; I d

on

't recall any

oth

ers—th

ere cou

ld h

ave b

een so

me, th

ere w

ere a lot o

f peo

ple so

rt of m

ovin

g in

and o

ut. T

here certain

ly w

ere a lot o

f

nu

rses in th

ere at that tim

e. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. C

an you identify any of the nurses who w

ere there? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. No; I can't.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as the P

residen

t's conditio

n at th

e time y

ou arriv

ed?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. It w

as critical. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat did you observe about him w

ith respect to any wounds he

may

hav

e sustain

ed?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. W

ell, I observ

ed th

at he d

id h

ave so

me su

ckin

g w

ound o

f som

e ty

pe o

n h

is neck

, and th

at be also

had

a wound o

f his rig

ht tem

poral reg

ion—

these w

ere the tw

o m

ain w

ounds.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

yo

u h

ave an

op

po

rtun

ity to

ob

serve h

is thro

at? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. No

; I really d

id n

ot. I th

ink

there w

ere a lot o

f peo

ple—

a lo

t of d

octo

rs more clo

sely aro

und h

im. I m

ight m

entio

n also

, I thin

k ju

st rig

ht a

fter I c

am

e in

the ro

om

Dr. C

lark

an

d D

r. Gro

ssman

also

arriv

ed

.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Doctor w

ho? D

r. SA

LY

ER

. Dr. G

rossm

an. ju

st briefly

. He's a n

euro

surg

eon also

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat is his name?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. D

r. Gro

ssman

—B

ob G

rossm

an. H

e was ju

st there, I th

ink,

briefly. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

ow long w

as he there? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I couldn't say—I'm

not sure he cam

e in th

e roo

m. I k

no

w th

ey

were to

geth

er—I can

not say

that fo

r sure.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. To w

hat extent did Dr. C

renshaw participate?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R_ D

r. Cren

shaw

particip

ated ab

out th

e exten

t that I d

id. W

e were

occu

pied

in m

akin

g su

re an I.Y

. was g

oin

g an

d h

angin

g u

p a b

ottle o

f blo

od.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Is the—is D

r. Crenshaw

a resident? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes, h

e is third

-year resid

ent. T

hat's th

e reason

I remem

ber

him

specifically

becau

se we w

ere sort o

f work

ing th

ere togeth

er on th

at. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. I b

ad ask

ed y

ou

a mo

men

t ago

wh

ether y

ou

had

an o

pp

ortu

nity

to o

bserv

e the co

nditio

n o

f the P

residen

t's thro

at. D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Right.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as your answer to that question?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. T

he answer w

as—there w

ere a lot o

f docto

rs standin

g aro

und,

and

I did

n't really

get to

ob

serve th

e natu

re of th

e wo

un

d in

the th

roat.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. At ap

pro

xim

ately w

hat tim

e did

you arriv

e at the em

ergen

cy

room

where th

e Presid

ent w

as situated

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I really don't know.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as done for the President by w

ay o

f treatmen

t that y

ou

observed? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Well, an

adeq

uate airw

ay ev

entu

ally, o

f course, so

me ex

ternal

cardiac m

assage—

he h

ad I.V

.'s—in

traven

ou

s fluid

s go

ing

in a n

um

ber o

f sites,

and

all of th

e acute m

easures w

e adm

inistered

him

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. I d

idn

't hear y

ou

at the en

d o

f yo

ur an

swer.

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I said

—all o

f the m

any o

ther m

easures th

at we ad

min

istered—

I d

on't recall sp

ecifically so

me o

f the o

ther d

etails as far as med

ications an

d

so fo

rth.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Wh

at did

you o

bserv

e with

respect to

the h

ead w

ound?

Dr. S

auna. I c

am

e in

on th

e le

ft side o

f him

and n

otic

ed th

at h

is majo

r w

ound se

em

ed to

be in

his rig

ht te

mpora

l are

a, a

t least fro

m th

e p

oin

t of

view

that I co

uld

see him

, and o

ther th

an th

at—noth

ing o

ther th

an h

e did

hav

e

a gaping scalp wound—

cranial wound.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Has an

yone fro

m th

e Fed

eral Govern

men

t talked

to y

ou ab

out

yo

ur o

bserv

ation

s of th

is matter?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

o one has. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

o y

ou h

ave an

yth

ing to

add w

hich

you th

ink m

ay b

e of aid

to

the P

residen

t's Com

missio

n in

its inquiry

? D

r. SA

LY

ER

. No. I believe not.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

_ Thank you very m

uch, Dr. S

alyer. D

r. SeL

xas. T

han

k y

ou.

Th

e testimo

ny

of D

r. Ken

neth

Ev

erett Saly

er was tak

ent at 6

:15

p.m

., on

M

arch 2

5, 1

964, at P

arklan

d M

emorial H

osp

ital, Dallas, T

ex., b

y M

r. Arlen

Spec-

ter, assistant co

un

sel of th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. May

the reco

rd sh

ow

that D

r. Ken

neth

Saly

er is presen

t in

respo

nse to

an in

qu

iry th

at he ap

pear to

hav

e his d

epo

sition

taken

in co

nn

ection

w

ith th

e Inq

uiries b

eing

con

du

cted b

y th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n o

n th

e Assassi-

natio

n o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y, w

hich

is lookin

g in

to all facets o

f the sh

ootin

g,

inclu

din

g th

e wo

un

ds o

f the P

residen

t and

the care h

e received

at Park

land

H

oso

ital. W

ith th

at prelim

inary

statemen

t of p

urp

ose, D

r. Saly

er, will y

ou stan

d u

p

and

raise yo

ur rig

ht h

and

? D

o y

ou

solem

nly

swear th

at the testim

on

y y

ou

will g

ive b

efore th

e Presid

ent's

Co

mm

ission

in th

e cou

rse of th

is dep

ositio

n w

ill be th

e truth

, the w

ho

le truth

, an

d n

oth

ing

bu

t the tru

th, so

help

yo

u G

od

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I do. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

ave y

ou h

ad an

opportu

nity

to ex

amin

e the d

ocu

men

t or th

e E

xecu

tive o

rder creatin

g th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n an

d R

ules fo

r the tak

ing

o

f testimo

ny

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes; I have.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And are you w

illing to have your deposition taken today without

hav

ing th

e form

al three d

ays o

f written

notice, w

hich

you h

ave a rig

ht to

. if y

ou

wish

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Yo

u are w

illing

to w

aive th

at righ

t, is that rig

ht?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ould you state your full name for the record, please?

Dr. S

AL

VE

R. K

enneth Everett S

alyer. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat is your profession? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Physician.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Are you duly licensed to practice m

edicine by the State of T

exas? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes ; I am

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd w

ould

you o

utlin

e briefly

your ed

ucatio

nal b

ackgro

und,

please? D

r. Serasa.-A

B.S

. deg

ree at the U

niv

ersity o

f Kan

sas, an M

.D. d

egree at th

e U

niv

ersity o

f Kan

sas, and in

ternsh

ip at P

arklan

d, an

d n

ow

a first year resid

ent

in su

rgery

at Park

land H

osp

ital. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. In

what y

ear did

you g

raduate fro

m th

e Un

iversity

of K

ansas

Medical S

chool? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. 1962. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd how old are you, D

r. Salyer?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I am

27. M

r. Su

erEa. W

ill yo

u relate b

riefly th

e circum

stances su

rrou

nd

ing

yo

ur b

eing

called

in to

assist in th

e treatmen

t of P

residen

t Ken

ned

y?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. W

ell, for th

e mo

nth

of N

ov

emb

er, as part o

f ou

r rotatio

n o

n su

r-gery

, I spen

t that m

onth

on n

euro

surg

ery, an

d b

eing o

n call th

at day

for an

y

emerg

encies w

hich

com

e in to

our em

ergen

cy ro

om

related to

neu

rosu

rgical

pro

blem

s, we w

ould

be called

dow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

to see th

ese, and I

was u

pstairs v

iewin

g a m

ovie w

hen

I beard

that th

e Presid

ent h

ad arriv

ed an

d

so I th

ought I sh

ould

go d

ow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

and see w

hat th

e situa-

tion w

as. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd, upon your arrival at the emergency room

, who w

as present?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. O

h, I d

on't recall—

I know

that th

ere were a ro

om

full o

f doc-

tors-1

could

list specific o

nes th

at I remem

ber if y

ou w

ould

like.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Would you please?

Dr. S

AL

VE

R. I d

on

't really th

ink

I cou

ld g

ive y

ou

every

on

e, bu

t I remem

ber

Dr. Jen

kin

s and D

r. Perry

and D

r. Bax

ter, and also

Dr. B

ob M

cClellan

d an

d

Dr. C

arrico an

d D

r. Cren

shaw

, and I th

ink a D

r. Gen

e Akin

was th

ere also—

at that tim

e, wh

en I first cam

e in.

were a lo

t of p

eople so

rt or m

ovin

g in

eau

nurses in

there at th

at time.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Can you identify any of the nurses w

ho were there?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

O ; I can't.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as the P

residen

t's conditio

n at th

e time y

ou arriv

ed?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. It w

as critical. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat did you observe about him w

ith respect to any wounds he

may

hav

e sustain

ed?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. W

ell, I ob

served

that h

e did

hav

e som

e suck

ing

wo

un

d o

f som

e ty

pe o

n h

is neck

, and th

at he also

had

a wound o

f his rig

ht tem

poral reg

ion—

these w

ere the tw

o m

ain w

ou

nd

s, M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

id y

ou h

ave an

opportu

nity

to o

bserv

e his th

roat?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

o; I really

did

not. I th

ink th

ere were a lo

t of p

eople—

a lo

t of d

octo

rs more clo

sely aro

und h

im. I m

ight m

entio

n also

, I thin

k ju

st rig

ht a

tter I c

am

e in

the ro

om

Dr. C

lark

an

d D

r. Gro

ssman

also

arriv

ed

.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Doctor w

ho? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Dr. G

rossm

an, ju

st briefly

. He's a n

euro

surg

eon also

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat is his name?

Dr. &

stmt. D

r. Gro

ssman—

Bob G

rossm

an. H

e w

as ju

st there

, I thin

k,

briefly. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

ow long w

as he there? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I could

n't say

—I'm

not su

re he cam

e in th

e room

, I know

they

w

ere togeth

er—I can

not say

that fo

r sure.

Mr. S

e=E

a. To w

hat ex

tent d

id D

r. Cren

shaw

particip

ate? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Dr. C

rensh

aw p

articipated

about th

e exten

t that I d

id. W

e were

occu

pied

in m

akin

g su

re an I.V

. was g

oin

g an

d b

angin

g u

p a b

ottle o

f blo

od.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Is the—is D

r. Crenshaw

a resident? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes, h

e is third

-year resid

ent. T

hat's th

e reason

I remem

ber

him

specifically

becau

se we w

ere sort o

f work

ing th

ere togeth

er on th

at. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. I h

ad ask

ed y

ou

a mo

men

t ago

wh

ether y

ou

had

an o

pp

ortu

nity

to o

bserv

e the co

nditio

n o

f the P

residen

t's thro

at. D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Right.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as your answer to that question?

Dr. S

AL

YE

R. T

he an

swer w

as—th

ere were a lo

t of d

octo

rs standin

g aro

und,

and I d

idn't really

get to

observ

e the n

ature o

f the w

ound In

the th

roat.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. At ap

pro

xim

ately w

hat tim

e did

you arriv

e at the em

ergen

cy

roo

m w

here th

e Presid

ent w

as situated

? D

r. SA

LY

ER

. I really don't know.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as done fo

r the P

residen

t by w

ay o

f treatmen

t that y

ou

observed? D

r. SA

LV

ER

Well, an

adeq

uate airw

ay ev

entu

ally, o

f cou

rse, som

e extern

al card

iac massag

e—he h

ad I.V

.'s—in

traven

ous flu

ids g

oin

g in

a num

ber o

f sites,

and

all of th

e acute m

easures w

e adm

inistered

him

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. I d

idn't h

ear you at th

e end o

f your an

swer.

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I said

—all o

f the m

any o

ther m

easures th

at we ad

min

istered—

I d

on

't recall specifically

som

e of th

e oth

er details as far as m

edicatio

ns an

d

so fo

rth.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Wh

at did

yo

u o

bserv

e with

respect to

the h

ead w

ou

nd

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I came in

an

the left aid

e of h

im an

d n

oticed

that h

is majo

r w

ound se

em

ed to

be in

his rig

ht te

mpora

l are

a, a

t least fro

m th

e p

oin

t of

view

that I co

uld

see him

, and o

ther th

an th

at—noth

ing o

ther th

an h

e did

hav

e a g

apin

g scalp

wound—

cranial w

ound.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

- Has an

yone fro

m th

e Fed

eral Govern

men

t talked

to y

ou ab

out

your o

bserv

ations o

f this m

atter? D

r. SA

LT

F.R

. No one has.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Do

you h

ave an

yth

ing to

add w

hich

you th

ink m

ay b

e of aid

to

the P

residen

t's Co

mm

ission

in Its in

quiry

? D

r. SA

LV

ER

. No, I believe not.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Thank you very m

uch, Dr. S

alyer. D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Thank you.

80

81

80

a I lank al I

t.a. lilt. L

lJed

LIA

NU

I 1L

4

■:.1

....u. A

vrm

." A

ra.

The testim

ony o

f Dr. K

enneth

Everett S

alyer w

as talent at 6

:15 p

.m.. o

n

March 25, 1964, at P

arkland Mem

orial Hospital, D

nIIas, Tex., by M

r. Arlen S

pec-ter, assistan

t cou

nsel o

f the P

residen

t's Co

mm

ission

.

Mr. S

eecerEn. M

ay th

e record

show

that D

r. Ken

neth

Saly

er is presen

t in

respo

nse to

an in

qu

iry th

at he ap

pear to

hav

e his d

epo

sition

taken

in co

nn

ection

w

ith th

e inquiries b

eing co

nducted

by th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n o

n th

e Assassi-

natio

n o

f Presid

ent K

enn

edy

, wh

ich Is lo

ok

ing

into

all facets of th

e sho

otin

g,

inclu

din

g th

e wounds o

f the P

residen

t and th

e care he receiv

ed at P

arklan

d

Hosn

ital. W

ith th

at prelim

inary

statemen

t of p

urp

ose, D

r. Saly

er, will y

ou stan

d u

p

and

raise yo

ur rig

ht h

and

? D

o y

ou so

lemnly

swear th

at the testim

ony y

ou w

ill giv

e befo

re the P

residen

t'v

Co

mm

ission

in th

e cou

rse of th

is dep

ositio

n w

ill be th

e truth

, the w

ho

le truth

. an

d n

oth

ing b

ut th

e truth

, so h

elp y

ou G

od?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. I do.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Hav

e you h

ad an

opportu

nity

to ex

amin

e the d

ocu

men

t or th

e E

xecu

tive o

rder creatin

g th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n an

d R

ules fo

r the tak

ing

of testim

on

y?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. Yes; I h

ave.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. An

d are y

ou w

illing to

hav

e you

r dep

ositio

n tak

en to

day

with

out

hav

ing

the fo

rmal th

ree day

s of w

ritten n

otice, w

hich

yo

u h

ave a rig

ht to

, if y

ou

wish

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Yo

u are w

illing

to w

aive th

at righ

t. is that rig

ht?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ould you state your full name for the record, please?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. K

enneth

Everett S

alyer.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What la your profession?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. P

hysician

. M

r. SPEC

TE

R.

Are y

ou d

uly

licensed

to p

ractice med

icine b

y th

e State o

f Tex

as? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes ; I am

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd

wo

uld

yo

u o

utlin

e briefly

yo

ur ed

ucatio

nal b

ackg

rou

nd

, please?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. A

B.S

. deg

ree at the U

niv

ersity o

f Kan

sas, an M

.D. d

egree at th

e U

niv

ersity o

f Kan

sas, and in

ternsh

ip at P

arklan

d, an

d n

ow

a first year resid

ent

in su

rgery

at Park

land

Ho

spital.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. In w

hat y

ear did

yo

u g

radu

ate from

the U

niv

ersity o

f Kan

sas M

edical School?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. 1962.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And bow

old are you, Dr. S

alyer? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I AIR

27.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Will y

ou relate b

riefly th

e circum

stances su

rroundin

g y

our b

eing

called in

to assist in

the treatm

ent o

f Presid

ent K

enned

y?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. Well, fo

r the m

on

th o

f No

vem

ber, as p

art of o

ur ro

tation

on

sur-

gery

, I spen

t that m

onth

on n

euro

surg

ery, an

d b

eing o

n call th

at day

for an

y

emerg

encies w

hich

com

e In to

our em

ergen

cy ro

om

related to

neu

rosu

rgical

pro

blem

s, we w

ould

be called

dow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

to see th

ese, and I

was u

pstairs v

iewin

g a m

ov

ie wh

en I b

eard th

at the P

residen

t had

arrived

and

so

I thought I sh

ould

go d

ow

n to

the em

ergen

cy ro

om

and see w

hat th

e situa-

tion

was.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And, upon your arrival at the em

ergency room, w

ho was present?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. O

h. I d

on

't recall—I k

no

w th

at there w

ere a roo

m fu

ll of d

oe-

tors--I co

uld

list specific o

nes th

at I remem

ber if y

ou w

ould

like.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

Wo

uld

yo

u p

lease? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I don

't really th

ink I co

uld

giv

e you

every

on

e, bu

t I remem

ber

Dr. Jen

kin

s and D

r. Perry

and D

r. Bax

ter, and also

Dr. B

ob M

cClellan

d an

d

Dr. C

arrico an

d D

r. Cren

shaw

, and I th

ink a D

r. Gen

e Akin

was th

ere also—

at that tim

e, wh

en I first cam

e in.

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. N

o; I d

on

't recall any

oth

e-s—th

ere cou

ld h

ave b

een so

me, th

ere w

ere a lot o

f peo

ple so

rt of m

ov

ing

in an

d o

ut. T

here certain

ly w

ere a lot o

f nurses in

there at th

at time.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Can you Identify any of the nurses w

ho were there?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

o; I can't. M

r. SPE

CT

ER

. What w

as the P

residen

t's conditio

n at th

e time y

ou arriv

ed?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. It w

as critical. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat did you observe about him w

ith respect to any wounds he

may

hav

e sustain

ed?

Dr.

SAL

TE

D-

Well, I o

bserv

ed th

at be d

id h

ave so

me su

ckin

g w

ound o

f som

e ty

pe o

n h

is neck

, and th

at he also

had

a wound o

f his rig

ht tem

poral reg

ion—

th

ese were th

e two

main

wo

un

ds.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Did

you h

ave an

opportu

nity

to o

bserv

e his th

roat?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. N

o; I really

did

no

t. I thin

k th

ere were a lo

t of p

eop

le—a

lot o

f docto

rs more clo

sely aro

und h

im. I m

ight m

entio

n also

, I thin

k ju

st rig

ht a

fter I c

am

e in

the ro

om

Dr. C

lark

and D

r. Gro

ssman a

lso a

rrived.

-Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Docto

r who?

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. D

r. Gro

ssman

, just b

riefly. H

e's a neu

rosu

rgeo

n also

. M

r. SPEC

TE

R. W

hat is h

is nam

e? D

r. SA

nxxB

. Dr. G

rossm

an—

Bob G

rossm

an. H

e was ju

st there, I th

ink,

briefly. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

ow long w

as he there? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I could

n't say

—I'm

not su

re he cam

e in th

e room

. I know

they

w

ere tog

ether—

I cann

ot say

that fo

r sure.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. To w

hat extent did Dr. C

renshaw participate?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. Dr. C

rensh

aw p

articipated

about th

e exten

t that I d

id. W

e were

occu

pied

in m

akin

g su

re an I.V

. was g

oin

g an

d h

ang

ing

up

a bo

ttle of b

loo

d.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

.. Is the—is D

r. Crenshaw

a resident? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Yes, h

e is third

-year resid

ent- T

hat's th

e reason I rem

ember

him

specifically

becau

se we w

ere sort o

f work

ing th

ere togeth

er on th

at. M

r. SPECTER

. I h

ad ask

ed y

ou a m

om

ent ag

o w

heth

er you b

ad an

opportu

nity

to

observ

e the co

nditio

n o

f the P

residen

t's thro

at. D

r. SAL

TE

R. R

igh

t. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat was your answ

er to that question? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. The an

swer w

as—th

ere were a lo

t of d

octo

rs standin

g aro

und,

and

I did

n't really

get to

ob

serve th

e natu

re of th

e wo

un

d in

the th

roat.

Mr.

SPEC

TE

R. A

t app

rox

imately

wh

at time d

id y

ou

arrive at th

e emerg

ency

ro

om

where th

e Presid

ent w

as situated

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. I really don't know.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. What w

as done fo

r the P

residen

t by w

ay o

f treatmen

t that y

ou

observed? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. Well, an

adeq

uate airw

ay ev

entu

ally, o

f course, so

me ex

ternal

cardiac m

assage—

he h

ad I.V

.'s—in

traven

ou

s fluid

s go

ing

in a n

um

ber o

f sites. an

d all o

f the acu

te measu

res we ad

min

istered h

im.

Mr. S

eecrEe.. I d

idn't b

ear you at th

e end o

f your an

swer.

Dr. S

AL

TE

R. I said

—all o

f the m

any

oth

er measu

res that w

e adm

inistered

—

don't recall sp

ecifically so

me o

f the o

ther d

etails as far as med

ication

s and

so

forth

. M

r. SPEC

TE

R. W

hat d

id y

ou o

bserv

e with

respect to

the h

ead w

ound?

Dr.

SA

LT

ER

. I cam

e in o

n th

e left side o

f him

and n

oticed

that h

is majo

r w

ound se

em

ed to

be in

his rig

ht te

mpora

l are

a, a

t least fro

m th

e p

oin

t of

view

that I co

uld

see him

, and o

ther th

an th

at—noth

ing o

ther th

an h

e did

hav

e a g

apin

g scalp

wo

un

d—

cranial w

ou

nd

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

as anyone fro

m th

e Fed

eral Govern

men

t talked

to y

ou ab

out

yo

ur o

bserv

ation

s of th

is matter?

Dr. SA

LT

ER

. No

on

e has.

Mr. SPE

CT

ER

. Do

yo

u h

ave an

yth

ing

to ad

d w

hich

yo

u th

ink

may

be o

f aid to

th

e Presid

ent's C

om

missio

n in

its inq

uiry

? D

r. SA

LT

ER

. No, I believe not.

Mr. S

PE

cik.a. Thank you very m

uch, Dr. S

alyer. D

r. SAL

TE

R. T

han

k y

ou.

81

tion ta

ken ye

sterd

ay th

at yo

u h

ave

som

e in

form

atio

n o

f valu

e to

pro

vide to

us

so th

at th

e re

gula

r pro

cedure

has n

ot b

een fo

llow

ed o

f sendin

g y

ou a

copy o

f th

e E

xecu

tive o

rde

r or o

f the

reso

lutio

n co

nce

rnin

g th

e p

roce

du

res o

f the

takin

g

of te

stimo

ny.

Pe

rmit m

e to

ma

ke th

ose

do

cum

en

ts ava

ilab

le to

you

. (H

anded in

strum

ents to

the W

itness H

ench

liffe.)

Let m

e sa

y that sin

ce ye

sterd

ay I h

ave

conta

cted M

r. J. Lee R

ankin

, Genera

l C

ou

nse

l. in W

ash

ing

ton

an

ti he

ha

s a

uth

oriz

ed

the

takin

g o

f this

de

po

sitio

n

by le

tter, w

hic

h I re

ce

ive

d to

da

y. s

o th

at it h

as b

een a

uth

oriz

ed, a

nd th

e re

al

questio

n I h

ave w

ith y

ou is

wheth

er it is

ail rig

ht w

ith y

ou to

pro

vid

e u

s w

ith

the

info

rma

tion

you

ha

ve to

da

y, as o

pp

ose

d to

som

etim

e n

ext w

ee

k afte

r you

hare

had th

e 3

days' n

otice

which

you a

re e

ntitle

d to

if you w

ant it?

M

iss F

lexcutiv

re. It is

all rig

ht w

ith m

e.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Is IF

all rig

ht w

ith y

ou to

pro

ceed a

nd h

ave y

our d

epositio

n

take

n to

da

y?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. Ye

s, sir. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

o yo

u so

lem

nly sw

ea

r tha

t the

testim

on

y you

sha

ll give

be

fore

th

is C

om

mis

sio

n a

s it is

hold

ing d

epositio

n p

roceedin

gs n

ow

will b

e th

e tru

th.

the w

hole

truth

, and n

oth

ing b

ut th

e tru

th, so

help

you G

od?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIFF

E. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ill you

state

you

r full n

am

e. p

lea

se?

M

iss HE

NC

HLIF

FE

. Marg

are

t M. H

ench

liffe.

Mr. S

PE

CTE

R. W

ha

t is you

r occu

pa

tion

or p

rofe

ssion

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. I am

a n

urse

, registe

red n

urse

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd w

here

are

you e

mplo

yed?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. Pa

rklan

d M

em

oria

l Ho

spita

l. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. A

nd

wh

ere

we

re yo

u e

mp

loye

d o

n N

ove

mb

er 2

2, 1

96

3?

M

iss HE

NC

HL

IFF

E. P

arkla

nd

Me

mo

rial H

osp

ital.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d w

ere

you

no

tified

on

tha

t da

te th

at th

e P

resid

en

t wa

s on

h

is w

ay to

the

ho

sp

ital?

M

iSS

.HE

NC

HLIF

FE

. Na. s

ir : I did

n't k

now

it at th

e tim

e u

ntil la

ter.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. When d

id yo

u first le

arn

about it, if a

t all?

M

iss H

tscrm

ere

. I found o

ut w

ho it w

as w

hen I w

ent o

ut to

get b

lood.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. About w

hat tim

e o

f day w

as th

at?

M

iss HF

.NC

HL

TE

FE

. We

ll, I gu

ess it w

as a

bo

ut 2

min

ute

s afte

r he

cam

e in

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

id yo

u o

bse

rve h

im a

t som

e p

lace

in th

e h

osp

ital?

M

iss HE

NC

IILIF

FE

. I was w

orkin

g w

ith h

im In

the e

merg

ency ro

om

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. H

ad

he

arrive

d in

the

em

erg

ency ro

om

wh

en

you

first arrive

d

at th

e site

of th

e e

me

rge

ncy ro

om

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIFF

E. D

O w

hat?

M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

ere

you in

the a

rea o

f the e

merg

ency ro

om

befo

re h

e ca

me

there

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIFF

E. Y

es. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

id yo

u se

e h

im a

ctually w

heele

d in

to th

e e

merg

ency ro

om

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. Yes; in

fact, I h

elp

ed w

heel h

im o

n in

to tra

um

a ro

om

1.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d, w

he

re w

as h

e w

he

n yo

u first sa

w h

int?

M

iss H

se

cuurrs

. He w

as b

etw

een tra

um

a ro

om

s 1

and 2

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R_ D

id yo

u se

e h

im w

hen h

e w

as b

rought in

to th

e h

osp

ital itse

lf?

Mis

s H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. At th

e e

me

rge

ncy e

ntra

nce

—n

o. It w

as a

fter b

e c

am

e

into

the e

merg

ency ro

om

. M

r. SPECTER

. He

cam

e In

to th

e e

me

rge

ncy a

rea

?

Mis

s H

eaccH

urrt. Y

es.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. A.n

d th

en yo

u sa

w h

im a

nd h

elp

ed w

heel h

im, yo

u sa

y, into

the e

me

rge

ncy ro

om

No

. 1?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIFF

E_ Y

es. M

r. Senc- re

s. A

nd

wh

o e

lse

wa

s p

rese

nt a

t the

time

yo

u firs

t sa

w h

im w

he

n

he

ha

d Ju

st com

e in

to th

e e

me

rge

ncy a

rea

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. Let m

e se

e, I th

ink D

r. Carrico

was th

ere

—he w

as th

ere

very

shortly

atte

r—afte

rward

s.

qvrr-r,-1

1 'a

n ,v

as th

ere

wh

en

rim s

rrive

rl? O

r nrric

od

sh

ortly

-afte

r

Mis

s H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. Well, a

ctu

ally

I went in

ahead o

f the c

art w

ith h

im a

nd

I wa

s th

e firs

t on

e in

with

him

, an

d ju

st in

a m

inu

te. o

r se

co

nd

s, D

r. Ca

rrico

ca

me

In.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. And w

hat o

ther d

octo

rs arrive

d, if a

ny?

M

iss HE

NC

HLIF

FE

. Oh, gee.

Le

t's see

—th

ere

wa

s Dr. B

axte

r. Dr. P

erry, a

nd

yo

u w

ant a

ll of th

em

that w

ere

in th

e ro

om

?

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. If you

can

rem

em

be

r the

m.

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. Dr. K

em

p C

lark, D

r. Jen

kins. D

r. Pe

ters, D

r. Cre

nsh

aw

, a

nd

the

re w

as so

me

wo

ma

n a

ne

sthe

tist tha

t I do

n't kn

ow

wh

ich—

wh

o it w

as.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Wh

at d

id yo

u o

bse

rve to

be

the

Pre

side

nt's co

nd

ition

wh

en

you firs

t saw

him

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

. I saw

him

bre

ath

e a

couple

of tim

es a

nd th

at w

as a

ll. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. D

id you see an

y wo

un

d a

nyw

he

re O

n h

is bo

dy?

M

iss HE

NC

HL

IFF

E. Y

es; h

e w

as ve

ry blo

od

y, his h

ea

d w

as ve

ry blo

od

y wh

en

I s

aw

him

at th

e tim

e.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

you e

ver se

e a

ny w

ound in

any o

ther p

art o

f his b

ody?

M

iss HE

NC

IILIF

FE

. When I first sa

w h

im—

exce

pt h

is head.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Did

you

see

an

y wo

un

d o

n a

ny o

the

r pa

rt of h

is bo

dy?

M

iss L

inxcrtu

rrE. Y

es; In

the

ne

ck.

Mr. S

escrrn

s. Will yo

u d

escrib

e it, p

lea

se?

M

iss HE

NcH

LIT

FE

. It was Ju

st a little

hole

in th

e m

iddle

of h

is neck.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. About h

ow

big

a h

ole

was it?

M

iss HE

NC

HL

IFF

E. A

bo

ut a

s big

aro

un

d a

s the

en

d o

f my little

fing

er.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Ha

ve yo

u e

ver h

ad

an

y exp

erie

nce

with

bu

llet h

ole

s?

Mis

s H

EN

cuurs

i. Yes.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d w

ha

t did

tha

t ap

pe

ar to

you

to b

e?

M

iss HE

NC

HLIF

FE

. An e

ntra

tiestm

gitt..,

ki

ekkaip4

41

44

;tre.

Mr. S

ee

cre

a. C

ou

ld T

r- .

aft -a

l. et h

ole

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIT

TE

. I ha

ve n

eve

r see

n a

n e

xit bu

llet b

ole

—I d

on

't rem

em

be

r se

ein

g o

ne

tha

t loo

ked

like th

at.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Wh

at w

ere

the

cha

racte

ristics of th

e h

ole

?

Miss H

EN

CH

LIF

FE

_ It w

as Ju

st a little

rou

nd

—Ju

st a little

rou

nd

ho

le, Ju

st a

little ro

und ja

gged-lo

okin

g—

Jagged a

little b

it. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat e

xperie

nce

have

you h

ad h

i obse

rving b

ulle

t hole

s, MIS

S

Hench

liffe?

Miss H

E:IC

.111.H

W. W

ell, w

e ta

ke ca

re o

f a lo

t of b

ulle

t wounds d

ow

n th

ere

—

I don't k

now

how

many n

year.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. Have

you e

ver h

ad a

ny fo

rmal stu

die

s of b

ulle

t hole

s?

Miss F

iEN

CIT

UF

FE

. Oh, n

o; n

oth

ing e

xcept m

y exp

erie

nce

in th

e e

merg

ency

MO

M.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. In w

hit'

Miss H

EN

CH

UF

FE

. In th

e e

me

rge

ncy ro

om

is all.

Mr. S

PE

CT

EIL

Wh

at w

as d

on

e to

the

Pre

side

nt a

fter h

e a

rrived

at th

e e

me

r- g

en

cy roo

m?

M

iss HE

NC

TIL

IFF

E. W

ell th

e first th

ing

, his e

nd

otru

che

al tu

be

wa

s inse

rted

. M

r. SP

EC

TER

. Were

you p

rese

nt a

ll the tim

e b

e w

as in

the e

merg

ency ro

om

?

Miss H

eecu

tursn

. Exce

pt w

hen I le

ft out to

get b

lood.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d h

ow

lon

g w

ere

you

go

ne

?

Mis

s H

ae

cu

trrre. O

h, a

bo

ut 3

min

ute

s o

r so

-3 o

r 4 m

inu

tes.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d w

ere

you

pre

sen

t wh

en

he

wa

s pro

no

un

ced

de

ad

?

Miss H

escsru

rve. Y

es, sir.

Mr.

SP

EC

TER

, What w

as d

one w

ith th

e P

resid

ent's

body a

fter h

e w

as p

ro-

no

un

ced

to b

e d

ea

d?

M

iss lin:scu

mrrve

. Well, a

fter th

e la

st rites w

ere

said

we th

en u

ndre

ssed h

im

and clea

ne

d h

im u

p a

nd

wra

pp

ed

him

up

in sh

ee

ts un

til the

coffin

wa

s bro

ug

ht.

Mr. S

evxre

a. A

nd a

fter th

e co

ffin a

rrived, w

hat w

as d

one w

ith h

is body?

M

iss HE

NC

HL

IFF

E. H

e w

as p

lace

d in

the

coffin

. M

r. SP

EC

TE

R. W

hat h

ad h

e b

een o

n u

p u

ntil th

at tim

e?

Mis

s H

escutlifk

.. An e

merg

ency ro

om

cart.

Mr. S

PE

CT

ER

. An

d is th

at a

lso d

escrib

ed

as a

stretch

er?