kodiak/aleutians subsistence regional advisory … · 2019-05-30 · kodiak/aleutians subsistence...

KODIAK/ALEUTIANS SUBSISTENCE RAC MEETING 4/23/2019 2

KODIAK/ALEUTIANS RAC MEETING

Computer Matrix, LLC 135 Christensen Dr., Ste. 2., Anch. AK 99501

Phone: 907-243-0668 Fax: 907-243-1473 Email: [email protected]

KODIAK/ALEUTIANS SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING

PUBLIC MEETING

VOLUME II

Best Western Kodiak Inn Kodiak, Alaska April 23, 2019

9:00 a.m.

COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:

Della Trumble, Chair Melissa Berns Coral Chernoff Natasha Hayden Patrick Holmes Richard Koso Christopher Price Antone Shelikoff Rebecca Skinner

Regional Council Coordinator, Zach Stevenson

Recorded and transcribed by:

Computer Matrix Court Reporters, LLC 135 Christensen Drive, Suite 2 Anchorage, AK 99501 907-243-0668/[email protected]

mailto:[email protected]

mailto:907-243-0668/[email protected]





Page 149

1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 (Kodiak, Alaska - 4/23/2019) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Good morning, 8 everyone. Welcome back to the second day of our 9 meeting and I think from looking at what we have

10 remaining we should have this wrapped up by noon today. 11 12 And here's Rebecca. 13 14 Pat was going to go ahead and open and 15 then we can do introductions to find out also who's 16 online and we'll go ahead and get started. 17 18 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, good morning, 19 everybody. Glad you could make it. Sometimes these 20 get to be tedious, but we'll do our best. 21 I brought in the Liam Sulla carving that we've had for 22 sometime for our Council, kind of our kind of symbol of 23 what we try to do. And Antone shared this prayer with 24 me today so I'll read that as kind of our invocation 25 for today's work. 26 27 (Invocation) 28 29 MR. HOLMES: So thank you very much for 30 coming and we'll get going. 31 32 And thank you, Antone. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 35 We'll go ahead and start with you, Antone. 36 37 MR. SHELIKOFF: Antone from Akutan. 38 39 MR. PRICE: Good morning. Chris Price 40 from Unalaska. 41 42 MS. CHERNOFF: Coral Chernoff from 43 Kodiak. 44 45 MR. HOLMES: Pat Holmes, Kodiak. 46 47 MS. SKINNER: Rebecca Skinner, Kodiak. 48 49 MS. HAYDEN: Natasha Hayden, Kodiak. 50






Page 150

1 MS. BERNS: Melissa Berns, Kodiak. 2 3 MR. KOSO: Rick Koso, Adak. 4 5 MR. STEVENSON: Good morning, Madame 6 Chair. Zach Stevenson with the Federal Office of 7 Subsistence Management. 8 9 Through the Chair. Would those in the

10 audience please approach the microphone and introduce 11 yourselves. 12 13 MS. PETRIVELLI: Pat Petrivelli, Bureau 14 of Indian Affairs, Anchorage. 15 16 MR. PYLE: Good morning. Bill Pyle, 17 supervisory wildlife biologist at Kodiak National 18 Wildlife Refuge. 19 20 MR. BRADY: Mike Brady, Refuge manager, 21 Kodiak National Wildlife Refuge. 22 23 MS. WHITESIDE: Cassandra Whiteside, 24 Alaska Department of Fish and Game, South Alaska 25 Peninsula and Aleutian Islands. 26 27 MR. WITTEVEEN: Mark Witteveen, Fish 28 and Game, Kodiak Sport Fish. 29 30 MR. SHORT: I'm Bruce Short, I'm a 31 Kodiak resident that lives at Anton Larsen Island. 32 33 MR. McKEE: Chris McKee, Wildlife 34 Division supervisor, OSM. 35 36 MS. SHORT: Mitch Short, Anton Larsen 37 Island. 38 39 DR. REAM: Good morning. I'm Joshua 40 Ream, anthropologist with the Office of Subsistence 41 Management. 42 43 MR. EVANS: Good morning. My name's 44 Tom Evans, I'm a wildlife biologist with OSM. 45 46 MR. LANCE: Morning. Tom Lance, Sun'aq 47 Tribe of Kodiak, natural resources director. 48 49 MS. JACK PETERSON: Good morning. 50






Page 151

1 Lianna Jack Peterson with the Alaska Sea Otter and 2 Steller Sea Lion Commission. 3 4 MS. FOX: Good morning. Lisa Fox with 5 Fish and Game. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. And 8 may -- can we have those of you online introduce 9 yourselves, please.

10 11 MR. PAPPAS: Good morning. George 12 Pappas, OSM. 13 14 MR. LIND: Good morning. Orville Lind, 15 Native liaison for the Office of Subsistence 16 Management. 17 18 MS. KRUGER: Good morning. This is 19 Kelly Kruger with Sun'aq Tribe of Kodiak. 20 21 MS. KEATING: This is Jackie Keating 22 with the Division of Subsistence. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 25 you. And again good morning, everyone. 26 27 As we usually start if we have any 28 public testimony that we'll call you for and I do have 29 two. 30 31 Bruce Short from Kodiak if you want to 32 come up and testify. 33 34 MR. SHORT: Bruce Short. I don't speak 35 very loud, I need to speak louder. 36 37 I'm here to talk about the impact of 38 sea otters on subsistence. I was born and raised in 39 Kodiak, I'm of Native descent, three-sixteenths, not 40 quite enough to shoot otters. But I grew up here and I 41 remember in the '60s my dad worked at the king crab 42 cannery as a machinist and he brought home king crab 43 tails all the time because they didn't process the 44 tails at all. So we had lots of king crab when I was a 45 little kid before the tidal wave. And my great uncle, 46 Ely Mctroken, he had a fox farm out in Kalson Bay. I 47 used to get to go out with him in his dory once in a 48 while and shoot some seals and haul them up on the 49 beach for his foxes to eat. But when I was in high 50






Page 152

1 school, my senior year, I worked at Icy Cape plant and 2 Katiak Fisheries down on the channel there. And we 3 proc -- well, Kodiak caught 90 million pounds of king 4 crab that year. And it was quite some changes that has 5 happened. But when I got old enough to have my own 6 boat and everything I always went out and caught crab 7 and eventually I bought a place in Anton Larsen Island 8 and wanted to live kind of a subsistence lifestyle, 9 small boat fisheries. And the place was loaded with

10 crab. There were king crab, tanner crab, dungeness, 11 lots of butter clams, lots of steamers. I thought I 12 was in hog heaven. 13 14 But I saw the -- the first otter I saw 15 was in '79 out at Craig Point which is over by Kukak 16 Bay. By the mid '80s they'd moved into Anton Larsen 17 Bay, the bay where I live. It ices over in the winter 18 so it's a good place for marine mammals to haul out. 19 We have lots of seals that come in there now too. 20 21 But I commercially fished in there one 22 year in 1980 with my dory. I mean, there was so many 23 crab in there I could do -- I pulled by hand, didn't 24 have hydraulics or anything, just a little boat. But 25 it was enough to make, you know, a good living there. 26 And I fished commercially in '83 which was the last 27 year that there was a king crab season here. And my 28 impression was really that it had been overfished 29 because the end of the season everyone had their pots, 30 I mean, crab are a schooling animal, and all the pots 31 were just three spots out in Marmath (ph) that was the 32 only place there were any crab left. There were a few 33 after that that survived inside the bay and I always 34 caught some of those and there were always dungeness, 35 but once the otters moved in in the mid '80s and we had 36 200 coming in there in the wintertime they essentially 37 wiped out all the crab. They started with the crab, 38 then they went to the clams, they got the gaper clams, 39 then they went to the butter clams and now there's none 40 of that in Anton Larsen, absolutely none. The otter 41 population has dwindled, there's probably 70 or 80 that 42 overwinter there now. There's more seals, there up to 43 200 seals sometimes that overwinter there. 44 45 But this bay where I live, Anton 46 Larsen, it's a estuary and one of the most productive 47 biological systems that there is the world, very 48 productive, big nursery area for juvenile fish and the 49 crab would come in there to spawn and a very rich area 50






Page 153

1 that the otters changed pretty drastically getting rid 2 of the crab. And we also had issues -- we also had 3 issues with pollution. The halibut charter boats, a 4 lot of them would just gut their fish and dump them 5 inside the bay there. And the problem with the bay is 6 it's got restricted entrances and limited flushing so 7 we don't get good turnover in there. And without the 8 crab to eat the salmon carcasses and help turn things 9 over and then this new input of nutrients, well, the

10 halibut was one of the big ones, dumping more nutrients 11 into the bay there. But I've done some limnology and I 12 did a few water samples and you could see in the basin 13 of the bay in the deep part of the bay there was a 14 grown anoxic layer there and other thing that KRRA 15 planted a bunch of sockeye in there and the feed and 16 the feces added to the nutrients. And I tried to get 17 them to monitor the anaerobic layer in the bay, but 18 they didn't do it. 19 20 But essentially the bay has -- it's 21 such a productive area and it's really gone down hill. 22 The herring don't come in there anymore. But it has 23 potential and I see that -- I'm encouraged to see that 24 there seems to be more interest in some active 25 management on otters and looking at specific areas like 26 they're doing in Southeast. And I think this bay would 27 be a perfect spot to look at -- you know, the -- 28 they're investing a lot of money and looking at trying 29 to do hatchery king crab to help reestablish them. But 30 they're going to have to have areas where those crab 31 are going to be able to develop. And the otters, well, 32 there's two stable communities, nearshore communities, 33 one has otters and the other one doesn't. The crab 34 aren't where the otters are, but it is -- it's a 35 stable, productive system that is actually better for 36 subsistence because of the shellfish that traditionally 37 -- you know, the people here have always used. And if 38 you look, I read a report by an archeologist, Amchitka, 39 I think and he looked at the layers in the midden and 40 it was -- it was a layer where otters were present, but 41 certain animals, fish bones and stuff, and layers where 42 the otters had been depleted or hunted harder where the 43 shellfish appeared. And that's been a succession 44 that's always happened. And I just think the sea otter 45 regulation, the way it's been, has really loaded it on 46 one side at least in most areas. And that's -- I think 47 that's one reason why the crab have disappeared. I 48 don't know, the king crab may take a long time to come 49 back, but we still get -- we still get little dungeness 50






Page 154

1 coming in when they have a good year, but you never see 2 them bigger than this because I'm sure the otters pick 3 them off. They got 24/7 fishing mode going on. 4 5 So I'm encouraged to see that this is 6 getting a closer look and that maybe they'll be some 7 management to help some of these areas recuperate the 8 shellfish that people have relied on subsistence and I 9 miss dearly. I -- when I first moved there I had king

10 crab whenever I wanted, I could go down and get a 11 bucket of butter clams anytime, didn't have to worry 12 about PSP then, but still, I mean, the steamers and 13 there's very little left now. There's a few mussels 14 and lots of barnacles and essentially the filter 15 feeders have disappeared from the bay other than 16 mussels and barnacles. And that's another thing with 17 eutrophication where you have problems with anoxic 18 areas growing. You get plankton blooms and the 19 plankton blooms die off, there's no filter feeds to eat 20 the plankton. The sockeye that they planted in Anton 21 Larsen four or five years ago totally wiped out the 22 krill, the little euphausids that we used to have huge 23 swarms of every year. We're just starting to see a few 24 of those come back. They fed on the plankton. But 25 what happens to the plankton if nothing feeds on it is 26 the plankton dies and sinks to the bottom. And the 27 only thing that will feed on it after that is the 28 bacteria. And, I mean, it's a huge worldwide problem. 29 And I've just seen it, you know, upfront, right in 30 front of my house. This has been doing on. 31 32 I think if the sea otter management 33 could change there might be a possibility of turning 34 things around and making a little productive bay like 35 that more like what it should be again. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 38 39 MR. SHORT: Thank you. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: If you can hold 42 on a minute. Go ahead and turn your mic off. 43 44 Does anybody have any comments or 45 questions for Bruce. 46 47 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 50






Page 155

1 2 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, Bruce, it's really 3 good to have a Kodiak kid give his recollections and 4 observations and particularly one that's a trained 5 biologist as well as a fisherman and your long Native 6 heritage. 7 8 Last year before Carl Snyder died up in 9 Homer he was a fellow that did the transplants from

10 Prince William Sound to Southeast on otters after 11 asking folks if they wanted to try having sea otters as 12 a source of income and to try to reestablish, you know, 13 the equilibriums that used to be there. But he 14 mentioned that in talking to him about that there was a 15 big die off in Cook Inlet a few years ago about otters. 16 And I can't remember the bacteria, but he mentioned 17 that it probably was a cause -- case of being 18 overpopulated and then they got a contagious disease 19 going. And then I believe a year or two later, two 20 years later at Nelson Lagoon they had a similar 21 occurrence with the same bacteria. And I was wondering 22 with your observations have you seen or do you think 23 there's a potential here for our sea otters here to get 24 overpopulated as well as the effects of the otters? 25 26 MR. SHORT: Well, I certainly do 27 believe that. I mean, there hasn't been anyone 28 harvesting the otters over there. And I took a 29 population biology class in Fairbanks and when 30 populations grow without any harvesting or predation on 31 them they have factors that will come in to limit the 32 population. There's extrinsic ones if they were hunted 33 and intrinsic ones which are diseases. And I see that 34 they're -- I forget the name of the bacteria too, but I 35 certainly believe the population's more stressed, it's 36 gone from 200 down to 80 and that's mostly food 37 related. But I think they have a harder time, you 38 know, finding food and they're probably stressed and 39 probably more susceptible to diseases. I haven't 40 particularly seen ones that I thought were sick, but I 41 think that it's a real possibility that that's what 42 happens with biological populations that that could 43 happen and maybe that'll bring the otter population 44 down. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 47 48 Any other comments or questions. 49 50






Page 156

1 (No comments) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 4 Bruce. 5 6 MR. SHORT: Thank you. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: We had a -- it 9 sounds like a few more people come online. Can you

10 introduce yourself if you didn't the first round? 11 12 MR. HILDRETH: This is Derek Hildreth, 13 Office of Subsistence Management. 14 15 MR. AYERS: Scott Ayers, Office of 16 Subsistence Management. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Can you repeat 19 that last -- the last name, you're breaking up. 20 21 MR. AYERS: Scott Ayers, Office of 22 Subsistence Management. 23 24 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 27 28 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 29 This is Zach Stevenson. We're having a hard time 30 hearing, your voice was cutting in and out. Was that 31 Scott Ayers with the Office of Subsistence Management? 32 33 MR. AYERS: Correct. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Anyone else? 36 37 (No comments) 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Hearing 40 none, the next person that we have for public testimony 41 is Margaret Short. 42 43 Margaret, you want to come up. 44 45 MS. SHORT: Hello, good morning. My 46 name is Mitch Short, I'm married to Bruce, live out at 47 Anton Larsen Island. I consider myself a transplant, 48 but I am non-invasive. 49 50






Page 157

1 What I'd like to propose is to make 2 Anton Larsen Bay an area of special interest to make it 3 the place for a study. Eliminate sea otters, stay on 4 top of it, eliminate them, use the hatcheries that we 5 have in Alaska to reseed the beaches with the clams, 6 the shellfish. I'd like to see a clean water 7 initiative. I have written proposals, I have 8 identified 40 years of severe impacts to the bay that 9 have taken place, that have degraded the water quality.

10 So I'd like to initiate a clean water act to restore 11 the water quality of the bay, to turn things around. 12 That I do believe that we have to act fast, that this 13 is not a time for a lot of polite conversation. That 14 we just need to make a start. By hook or by crook it 15 is very obvious to me that my husband and myself too, 16 we are like -- almost like the custodians of that bay, 17 we live right there on the waterfront, we observe it 18 every single day, he has for 40 years. So we're not 19 hobbyists, we are very concerned citizens, we would 20 like to see things turned around and even if in our 21 lifetime we don't get to see the results, at least we 22 know that we have contributed to restore that bay and 23 to reintroduce it to subsistence and to try and 24 reintroduce the shellfish and the crab. And it's just 25 a start. 26 27 And I think that that is the most 28 unique bay in the whole of the west side. And I would 29 like to start writing out a proposal, how to go about 30 it, how to educate the charter boat operators, how to 31 ask to work -- that we all start working together. We 32 have witnessed year after year the catch come in and as 33 soon as they get into the protected waters of the bay 34 they start their gushing and the filling and the 35 carcasses line the beaches. And we can all work 36 together. I think that they will understand, we can 37 put off notices and ask people to work with us, the 38 subsistence users of the bay. I do believe that they 39 will all come onboard and we can have a success. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 44 Margaret. 45 46 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach, did you 49 have a comment? 50






Page 158

1 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 2 Just a brief response for Ms. Short. 3 4 Ms. Short, thank you very much for your 5 comment. That was very articulate and clear. One of 6 the challenges that the Federal Office of Subsistence 7 Management faces when addressing sea otters if that 8 under the Marine Mammal Protection Act the work on sea 9 otters is directed through the Office of Marine Mammals

10 through U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Meaning that 11 the Marine Mammal Protection Act has bearing on the 12 management of sea otters. And what the Regional 13 Advisory Council can do, this body can do, is provide a 14 forum as we have done for the sharing of information. 15 However the management of sea otters is the work of the 16 Marine Mammals management team. 17 18 And one thing which the Council can do 19 should it choose to do so is to direct a letter to the 20 Federal Subsistence Board requesting, asking that the 21 Federal Board entertain or consider the idea of working 22 with tribes. Tribes under the Marine Mammal Protection 23 Act have some ability to encourage their membership 24 should they choose to address marine mammal management. 25 26 But I just wanted to be very clear on 27 that distinction both in terms of what the Federal 28 Subsistence Management Program can and cannot do with 29 respect to sea otters. 30 31 Thank you, Madam Chair. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 34 35 MS. SHORT: Yes, I understand. Thank 36 you. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Are there any 39 comments or questions. 40 41 Margaret, if you want to hold up a 42 minute here we're not quite done. 43 44 MR. PRICE: Madame Chair. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris. 47 48 MR. PRICE: Thank you for your 49 testimony, you and your husband. 50






Page 159

1 Have you reached out to your tribe in 2 your area and talked to them about the problems you're 3 seeing? 4 5 MS. SHORT: Yes, we have -- we have 6 begun to do that. It's a very busy time for us right 7 now because of our gardening projects. We serve the 8 community by growing vegetables out to seed. So I 9 haven't been quite on top of it in the last month or

10 so. But, yes, we have reached out to the Sun'aq Tribe 11 which my husband is a member of. And I would like to 12 approach KANA and the other organization in Port Lyons 13 and Ouzinkie. I have written to the Department of Fish 14 and Game and all the various Department of 15 Environmental Conservation and I have introduced this 16 proposal to them. So they are all aware of it. I have 17 had a few replies and responses, not quite as many as I 18 hoped for, but, yes, we have begun reaching out and 19 like I said we are concerned citizens and we are right 20 there 24/7 monitoring that area. 21 22 So we've made a start anyway. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 25 26 MS. SHORT: Thank you. 27 28 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. 31 32 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. 33 Thank you very much for your testimony, I really 34 appreciate it. 35 36 I'm on the Native Village of Afognak 37 Tribal Council and..... 38 39 MS. SHORT: Uh-huh. 40 41 MS. HAYDEN: .....and we host a youth 42 camp out on Afognak Island called Dig Afognak and..... 43 44 MS. SHORT: Yeah. 45 46 MS. HAYDEN: .....we transport all of 47 the attendees to our camp through Anton Larsen. 48 49 MS. SHORT: Right. 50






Page 160

1 MS. HAYDEN: And we also host a 2 subsistence camp, subsistence harvesting camp where we 3 have an opportunity to have harvesters go out and 4 harvest both sea otters and seals and give the kids, 5 the campers an opportunity to get exposed to those 6 activities. And I just wanted to suggest that there 7 may be an opportunity for you people as residents of 8 the bay to collaborate with the tribe to maybe host or 9 facilitate those activities in your area. I don't know

10 how many dozens of very healthy, large adult otters 11 that I thought would look really nice as, you know, a 12 scarf or blanket and thought well, nobody in this bay's 13 going to want me to shoot these because they're very 14 cute. 15 16 MS. SHORT: Cute. 17 18 MS. HAYDEN: And, you know, but with 19 the blessing of the residents of the bay and maybe, you 20 know, you could engage in maybe hosting some of those 21 activities. Then maybe we could collaborate to benefit 22 both groups. 23 24 So just..... 25 26 MS. SHORT: I think I remember a little 27 while back Bruce's niece, Tonya, Tonya Lee, she was -- 28 she was working with the children there on Afognak. 29 And I think it would be absolutely brilliant and I'm 30 quite sure that the few residents that are there at 31 Anton Larsen would give their full support. I think 32 it's a wonderful idea and we have to reach out and 33 especially to the youths. That's what it's all about 34 nowadays is trying to make good on maybe ill-founded 35 decisions and mistakes along the way. So we just need 36 to try to turn things around and I think it would be 37 wonderful. And I would like to take it, you know, the 38 whole -- to -- the whole way. You have these children, 39 these youth groups, it's subsistence, we subsistence 40 garden. There's lots of learning in that bay. And 41 with my husband's history I think that we can make a 42 huge impact, an impression on these youths. So I would 43 really encourage it, yes. 44 45 Thank you. 46 47 MS. BERNS: Madame Chair. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead. 50






Page 161

1 MS. BERNS: Thank you for coming today. 2 I think that by having you here and kind of one of the 3 residents giving a blessing for harvesting in that area 4 is huge. And I think that if harvesters knew that that 5 was a concern from people in the bay who subsist in 6 that area you would probably have more people 7 harvesting out there. 8 9 About five years ago I did go out with

10 some of my cousins and we were in canoes and we were 11 trying to harvest a few otters, I think we'd gotten 12 two, but we were approached by a very upset gentleman, 13 I think he was actually mooring his vessel in the bay. 14 But he was very upset and approached us with a pist -- 15 he had a pistol with him and told us that we had no 16 business shooting the otters in the bay and that we 17 needed to leave. And we were nowhere near or shooting 18 anywhere near where there were homes. We're very 19 responsible in that way. 20 21 But I think if more harvesters knew 22 that this was concern from folks in the bay that you 23 probably would have people willing to come in there. I 24 think it's just -- it's kind of respect thing to kind 25 of stay out of there. 26 27 Just my comment. 28 29 MS. SHORT: I agree, Melissa, 30 absolutely. Yes. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 33 Margaret, the only thing I would ask is -- well, and 34 you, Bruce. And you have the emails on your -- the 35 green forms, do you have phone numbers? 36 37 MS. SHORT: We don't. We're not able 38 to receive cell phone service..... 39 40 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 41 42 MS. SHORT: .....in that area. So..... 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: So what I'll do 45 is give these to Zach and he can share the emails with 46 the Council. That way if anybody else wants to get in 47 touch with you they can reach out that way. 48 49 MS. SHORT: Yes. 50






Page 162

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 2 3 MS. SHORT: Yes. Thank you. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 6 Thank you for taking the time and your little journey 7 here this morning. 8 9 All right. Council, moving on. I

10 don't think we had anybody online from Alaska Maritime 11 National Wildlife Refuge, however the issue that came 12 up from Chris yesterday in regarding to whether there 13 was any surveys being done on the horses and whether 14 there's -- can be something that can be resolved there. 15 16 17 Maybe, Zach, you can reach out to who 18 -- to them to find out what the process is or can be 19 started to take a look at that. 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 24 25 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madam Chair. 26 Yes, I'll follow-up with the Maritime Refuge on that 27 horse issue that was brought up yesterday. 28 29 Thank you. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 32 Migratory birds, is anybody online or available for 33 that report? 34 35 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead, Zach. 38 39 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 40 Chair. I'm unclear whether or not anyone from 41 Migratory Birds is on the line. I did want to point 42 out to the Council that Migratory Birds has offered at 43 the Council's discretion to provide a detailed 44 regulatory and biological update on emperor geese 45 should the Council want that at their fall meeting. 46 47 Thank you, Madame Chair. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think that 50






3

1 would be a good idea since we will hopefully be in Cold 2 Bay. 3 4 Moving on, National Park Service. Is 5 there anybody online or available to that report? 6 7 (No comments) 8 9 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Moving on.

10 AlaskaDepartmentof FishandGame,Board ofFisheriesupdate. 11 12 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 15 16 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 17 Chair. I did want to point out to the Council that we 18 have Cassandra Whiteside here with the Alaska 19 Department of Fish and Game. We also have Mark 20 Witteveen here with the Alaska Department of Fish and 21 Game and I've been notified that John Crye is joining 22 us by teleconference as well as Benjamin Mulligan with 23 the Commissioner's Office. 24 25 Thank you, Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. So you 28 want to come on up. 29 30 MS. WHITESIDE: Hello, good morning. 31 My name's Cassandra Whiteside. For in regards to Board 32 of Fish update I have South Peninsula updates, but I 33 don't know if, George, you're on the line you would 34 like to give the statewide updates first. 35 36 MR. PAPPAS: Sure. This is George 37 Pappas, OSM. I'm ready to go. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead, 40 George. 41 42 MR. PAPAS: Through the Chair if you -- 43 good morning, through the Chair. I have a 44 presentation, very short, about two minutes here. This 45 is on statewide proposals that were heard by the Alaska 46 Board of Fisheries on March 9th through 12th. 47 48 And if you remember last fall there 49 they came forth and asked for a couple of positions on 50






Page 164

1 some proposals. And one of them we didn't get through 2 because I did not bring enough -- I had not prepared 3 enough materials to educate the Board -- excuse me, the 4 Council on the proposal. But all of this action's 5 already taken place and the proposals of interest were 6 basically 161 and 162. And both of those proposals 7 were asking for some form of weekly or biweekly 8 reporting from all salmon harvesters, personal use, 9 subsistence, what have you. Both those proposals

10 failed. 11 12 Switching gears to the wanton waste. A 13 couple proposals were put in for wanton waste in 14 different part of the State. I think one of them was 15 put in because somebody had harvested a bunch of 16 sheefish and they moved them up their house and they 17 were going to do something with them later in the 18 middle of the winter. And as we all know the 19 temperatures have changed in some areas and the person 20 lost their fish, it rotted while they were -- it 21 started raining and the temperature raised and they 22 couldn't save their fish. That was an issue. 23 24 Now for those two proposals, one of 25 them was (indiscernible - distortion) so basically they 26 -- the Board of Fisheries changed this proposal into a 27 -- identify a couple exceptions where it would be a 28 defense to the charge of failure to salvage a fish due 29 to circumstances beyond the control of the person. So 30 for example if your fish are stolen you're not 31 responsible for them. So that's one of the regulations 32 they passed. If you -- if there were unanticipated 33 weather conditions or other acts of god where, you 34 know, you have other fish during a winter dry like the 35 (indiscernible - distortion) sometimes and it does get 36 above freezing and the fish does rot. And the other 37 excuse for not being able -- another excuse or 38 justification for not using or wasting fish is if you 39 lose your fish or excuse me, your subsistence harvest 40 in the field to a wild animal. So this has probably 41 happened many times in Kodiak where your fish were 42 actually (indiscernible - distortion) and a bear gets 43 into them or what have you. 44 45 So those are three different 46 regulations -- excuse me, those are three different 47 examples that the Board of Fish provided to -- as a 48 defense for if your fish goes to waste and cannot be 49 salvaged, one of those three reasons. 50






Page 165

1 Now the other one (indiscernible - 2 distortion) brought up of interest to this Regional 3 Advisory Council since your Council does have the 4 largest marine jurisdiction in Alaska under Federal 5 subsistence fisheries regulations was the proposal to 6 require anybody sport fishing from a vessel that was 7 fishing for rockfish has to use a deep water release 8 mechanism to return the fish at depth. So they did 9 pass this and beginning January 1st, 2020, a person

10 sport fishing from a vessel when releasing a rockfish 11 shall immediately use a deep water release mechanism to 12 return the fish to the depth it was hooked or a depth 13 of at least 100 feet. A vessel must have at least one 14 functional deep water release mechanism onboard and be 15 readily available for use when the sport fishing 16 activities are taking place. Upon request a deep water 17 release mechanism must be presented to a local 18 representative of the Department, peace officer, other 19 State or Federal law enforcement officer charged with 20 enforcing Fish and Game laws. 21 22 In this subsection deep water release 23 mechanism means a device designed to return a rockfish 24 to near bottom -- near the bottom where it was hooked 25 or specified depth and to assist the fish in 26 recompression and improve the fish's chances of 27 survival. 28 29 Now I heard Mark Witteveen's there in 30 the room and I'm assuming he's an expert in the subject 31 matter since there is a fair amount of rockfishing that 32 takes places in front of your town there. I believe 33 Zach has an example of one, we sent one down so we can 34 pass it around the room to show you what's required. 35 Now this is State regulations so currently this is not 36 required by Federal regulation, but something for this 37 Council to consider possibly submitting a proposal on 38 in a couple of years if you're interested. At this 39 time the data base does not -- the OSM data base, 40 permit data base does indicate that anybody's harvested 41 rockfish in your area under Federal subsistence 42 fisheries jurisdiction or laws or regulations, but 43 they're available if you're interested. 44 45 That concludes my short report. 46 47 Thank you, Madame Chair and I'll stand 48 by for questions. 49 50






Page 166

1 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. George, 4 just hold on a second. 5 6 Zach, go ahead. 7 8 MR. STEVENSON: For those listening on 9 the teleconference, the deep water release device that

10 George Pappas is referring to is now being passed 11 around to the Council members. And it looks like 12 essentially a six inch long black metal tube with two 13 oval shaped clamps at the end. And the idea is that 14 when you catch a rockfish that is not desired for 15 harvest, that can be used to more gentle release the 16 fish at depth so that it doesn't get the bends and die 17 or it minimizes mortality. 18 19 Thank you, Madam Chair. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 22 23 Are there any questions or comments for 24 George. 25 26 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 29 30 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, George, this is Pat. 31 Appreciate that, that's a good summary. On the release 32 device that's only if you're not going to be retaining 33 the rockfish, but if you're going to be eating them and 34 it's within the State limit then you don't really need 35 to release it, do you? 36 37 MR. PAPPAS: No, I mean, if you are in 38 a fishery where you're fishing for a specific species 39 of rockfish and you're only allowed so many of a 40 certain species and -- or you get a half pounder or a 41 one pounder or what have you. And most subsistence 42 users eat whatever they catch, but some folks might 43 want to sort through a few animals -- a few fish before 44 they take a few home. So, yeah, you don't need to use 45 it on the ones you take home, but if you are going to 46 release one you'll be required by State regulation to 47 use this device. 48 49 And you'll see the one being handed 50






Page 167

1 around the meeting there actually has a dial on it and 2 you can select what depth you want it released at. 3 That's an interesting feature of some of them. And I 4 think people -- you know, during the break maybe you 5 can talk to Mark Witteveen, I know there's probably 50 6 other different types out there. 7 8 But I hope I answered your question. 9

10 MR. HOLMES: Yes. Thanks, George. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 13 14 Any other comments or questions for 15 George. 16 17 (No comments) 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Hearing none, 20 Cassandra, you want to go ahead. 21 22 MR. PAPPAS: Thank you. 23 24 MS. WHITESIDE: Yes. Thank you, Madame 25 Chair. I have a report with me that covers my Board of 26 Fish updates and some subsistence harvest updates as 27 well as McLeese. I did not get to Zach on time, I'll 28 do my laps at a later date. But if I can pass this out 29 to you at this time. I'm going to read it to you, but 30 there's some charts and figures that you could look at 31 so you know what I'm talking about. 32 33 Okay. I'll go ahead and start if 34 that's okay. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead. 37 38 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. So for Board of 39 Fisheries regulation changes. During the February, 40 2019 Alaska Peninsula/Aleutian Islands and Chignik 41 meeting the Alaska Board of Fisheries made two changes 42 to the South Unimak and Shumagin Islands June Salmon 43 Management Plan and the June fishing schedule was 44 amended to align salmon or fishing times for all gear 45 types. The first commercial fishing period will begin 46 at 10:00 a.m. and close at 10:00 p.m. on June 6th for 47 64 hours for set gillnet gear only. Beginning at 6:00 48 a.m. June 10th all gear types will be allowed for an 88 49 hour fishing period closing at 10:00 p.m. This fishing 50






Page 168

1 period will be followed by a closure of 32 hours for 2 all gear types. 3 4 The commercial salmon fishery will 5 reopen for three more 88 hour fishing periods followed 6 by the closures of 32 hours until the final commercial 7 fishing period ends at 10:00 p.m. on June 28th. And 8 there's a figure in there for you that just shows the 9 calendar for June. There were no fishing changes to

10 the schedule for July. 11 12 Additionally the waters of Volcano Bay 13 section of the Southwestern district, the Belkofski Bay 14 section of the Southwestern district and the 15 Southcentral district are now closed for seine gear for 16 the month of June. 17 18 There are also two regulations 19 pertaining to gear. I have the legal language here 20 because it's a little complex. The Board amended 5 AAC 21 09.330 gear to read, a registered salmon fishing vessel 22 when it has set gillnet gear onboard may be used to tow 23 another registered salmon fishing vessel with set 24 gillnet gear onboard if the permit holder for the 25 vessel being towed is onboard one of the vessels; or a 26 registered salmon fishing vessel may have onboard it no 27 more than two legal limits of set gillnet fishing gear 28 in the aggregate to transport gear during a closed 29 fishing period if the two permit holders are onboard 30 the vessel. Additional gear may be transported to 31 another district under conditions specified by the 32 Department. 33 34 The Board also amended 5 AAC 09.331, 35 gillnet specifications and operations by adding a 36 subsection; in the South Alaska Peninsula area there is 37 no minimum mesh size for set gillnets. 38 39 What I didn't include on this written 40 report is, in addition there was a change to the Dutch 41 Harbor food and bait and herring fishery. The new 42 start date for that fishery was moved forward so it 43 begins on June 24th for gillnet and purse seine gear. 44 They both start on the same date is the change and 45 there's no allocation between gillnet and purse seine 46 gear. 47 48 Moving on to the 2018 and 2019 49 commercial salmon season. The 2018 salmon season was 50






Page 169

1 very poor for sockeye salmon escapement in the Gulf of 2 Alaska and South Alaska Peninsula was no exception. 3 Sockeye salmon escapement in the South Peninsula was 4 just over 12,000 sockeye based on aerial surveys and 5 one counting weir. The most recent 10 year average 6 sockeye salmon escapement on the South Pen is roughly 7 78,000 fish. 8 9 In 2018 due to the historic low sockeye

10 salmon returns to the Chignik River early run 11 unprecedented restrictions were placed on the South 12 Alaska Peninsula commercial salmon June fishery during 13 the last two weeks of June. The June fishery 14 restriction did limit the amount of time that 15 commercial fishing vessels could fish. We did likely 16 reduce the amount of time that commercial fish could be 17 retained for personal use or homepack. This type of 18 personal use harvest is different than personal use 19 fisheries like the dipnet fisheries on the Kenai or 20 Copper Rivers and it is different from traditional 21 subsistence fishing. Fish retained from commercial 22 harvest and marked as personal use on a fish ticket can 23 be taken by both Alaska residents and non-residents. 24 There are many Alaska residents that do take fish when 25 commercial fishing vessels -- with commercial fishing 26 vessels and mark them on their subsistence permits and 27 those fish are considered subsistence harvest. 28 29 No restrictions were placed on 30 subsistence fisheries in the South Alaska Peninsula in 31 2018 and restrictions are not anticipated in 2019. 32 33 The 2019 South Alaska Peninsula harvest 34 estimate is 20.6 million pink salmon and the total run 35 estimate is 24.6 million fish. The Southeastern 36 district mainland salmon fishery in the South Alaska 37 Peninsula is allocated 7.6 percent of the total number 38 of sockeye salmon harvested in the Chignik Management 39 Area through July 25th. 40 41 The 2019 Chignik River forecast for the 42 early run harvest estimate is 429,000 sockeye salmon 43 and the late run harvest estimate is 571,000 sockeye 44 salmon. If runs develop as predicted commercial fish 45 retained for personal use or homepack should not be 46 affected by low salmon returns as they did in 2018. 47 48 The next section is a subsistence 49 harvest report specifically for Unalaska. And in 2018 50






Page 170

1 150 salmon subsistence permits were issued on the 2 Alaska Peninsula, 181 permits were issued in Unalaska 3 and three permits were issued in Adak. As in the past 4 years the majority of the Unalaska Islands subsistence 5 sockeye harvest from 2018, about 80 percent came from 6 McLeese Lake run. Subsistence harvest estimates for 7 2018 are considered preliminary as the Department is 8 still conducting weight reports. Final subsistence 9 harvest estimates will be reported in the 2019 annual

10 management report. Currently 67 percent of 2018 permit 11 holders have reported their harvest. 12 13 And then I'll direct you to look at the 14 table one where Reese Bay was low, McLeese run was 82 15 percent of the sockeye harvest. 16 17 Okay. And then next is a McLeese Lake 18 weir update. In 2018 -- 2018 was the first year since 19 2001 that no weir was in place at McLeese Lake. 20 Without the weir in place restrictions were also placed 21 around the mouth of McLeese Lake from July 1st through 22 July 9th as in regulation. Also without the weir in 23 place and daily escapement counts being published the 24 community did not have any information about the timing 25 or strength of the sockeye salmon returns and so could 26 not target their subsistence fishing efforts around the 27 peak of the run. Anecdotal reports suggest that 28 fishing was not very good or that it was very hit and 29 miss. 30 31 In 2018 we were not able to make it out 32 to McLeese to conduct an aerial survey. The weather 33 limited our ability to make it from Sand Point or Cold 34 Bay to McLeese Lake so no counts were made. 35 36 Two funding opportunities were 37 announced last winter by the Fish and Wildlife Service 38 Office of Subsistence Management for the years of 2020 39 through 20203. The Partners for Fisheries Monitoring 40 Program is a competitive grant that is directed at 41 providing funding for biologists, social scientists and 42 educative positions in Alaska Native and rural 43 organizations with the intent of increasing the 44 organization's ability to participate in Federal 45 subsistence management. 46 47 Chris Price of the Qawalangin Tribe 48 submitted an application and has already spoken on 49 behalf of his application to the Partners Program. 50






Page 171

1 ADF&G submitted an application to fund 2 four years of weir operations at McLeese Lake through 3 the Fisheries Research Monitoring Program or FRMP 4 grant. If awarded ADF&G would run all operations at 5 the weir and collaborate with the Qawalangin Tribe 6 Partners biologist to provide opportunity for local 7 hires and outreach. The Partners biologist would be 8 co-principal investigator for the McLeese Lake weir and 9 would assist in writing of the annual reports.

10 11 And at this time I would like to thank 12 the Regional Advisory Council and its members for its 13 support on this application. 14 15 And secondly if I could ask, Zach, if 16 you could play a video for me. 17 18 MR. STEVENSON: Certainly. 19 20 (Off record comments - video set up) 21 22 MS. WHITESIDE: So what I'm showing you 23 here is related to the next topic. In 2018 a new 24 project using drone aerial surveys to estimate sockeye 25 salmon escapement was conducted on the road system 26 lakes around Unalaska. This project was funded by the 27 Unalaska Native Fishermen's Association and drone 28 surveys were completed by Aleutian Aerial, LLC. 29 30 I hope the video's coming out. 31 32 Between August 15th and September 18th 33 six drone surveys were conducted on Iliuliuk Lake and 34 five surveys were conducted on both Summer's Bay and 35 Morris Cove Lakes. The benefit of the drone work is 36 that the survey can be timed with ideal weather 37 conditions in Unalaska without relying on good weather 38 between Sand Point, Cold Bay and Unalaska. And the 39 video footage can be reviewed post season. The drone 40 video has the added benefit of allowing the reviewer to 41 slow down and rewind the video as needed to provide a 42 more accurate count. Additionally salmon species could 43 be differentiated from other salmon species without 44 difficulty. Video reviewers were able to observe fish 45 utilizing different parts of the lake during different 46 survey times. Salmon were observed on spawning grounds 47 and in schools near tributary mouths and in deeper 48 parts of the lake. 49 50






Page 172

1 Standardized methodology was used to 2 create escapement estimates from traditional aerial 3 surveys flown with a fixed wing aircraft -- excuse me. 4 Standardized methodology were used to create escapement 5 estimates from traditional aerial surveys flown with 6 fixed wing aircraft were used to crease escapement 7 estimates from drone video footage. Escapement of 8 sockeye salmon was estimated using drone survey peak 9 counts. The Iliuliuk Lake sockeye salmon escapement

10 estimate was 583 fish, the Summer's Bay Lake sockeye 11 salmon escapement estimate was 3,622 fish and the 12 Morris Cove Lake sockeye salmon escapement estimate was 13 315 fish. 14 15 Pink salmon and coho salmon that were 16 observed during the drone surveys were also tallied. 17 The observed pink salmon escapement is likely an 18 underestimate as pink salmon were observed heading 19 upstream from the lakes which was outside the scope of 20 the survey. Additionally coho salmon have a later run 21 timing in comparison to sockeye salmon. The coho 22 salmon that were observed in each lake were likely the 23 beginning of the run and counts during the peak of the 24 run were not captured. Therefore the coho salmon 25 escapement observed isan underestimate of thetotal run. 26 27 In 2019 -- the next topic is 2019 drone 28 surveys. Utilizing drone surveys as a method to 29 estimate salmon escapement is a new and innovative 30 technique that has potential to be a reliable and cost 31 effective data source particularly in small river and 32 lake systems that are accessible by road. In 2018 the 33 King Cove Corporation granted ADF&G access to their 34 lands around Cold Bay to test the feasibility of using 35 drone technology to survey salmon systems in the area. 36 Unfortunately in 2018 the FAA did not grant ADF&G's 37 request to fly in air space designated for use by the 38 Cold Bay Airport. However the FAA did give 39 authorization for ADF&G to fly drones in controlled air 40 space during the 2019 salmon season. The Department 41 would like to fly a drone over Mortensons Lagoon and 42 some of the other smaller systems around Cold Bay to 43 determine if drones can be used to supplement aerial 44 surveys conducted by manned, fixed wing aircraft. 45 Additionally there has been some discussion between 46 Unalaska Native Fishermen's Association, the city of 47 Unalaska and the Ounalashka Corporation to continue 48 drone surveys on the three Unalaska Lake systems in 49 2019. 50






Page 173

1 So I hope this video came out, you 2 could see some fish and how the drone surveys were 3 utilized. 4 5 And that is the end of my report. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 8 Cassandra. Very -- excellent report and the video, 9 that was amazing. And then I don't recall with King

10 Cove Corp if we gave you the 2019 -- I know we did the 11 2018, but I don't recall 2019. 12 13 MS. WHITESIDE: You didn't specify 14 dates, but if you would like I could put in another 15 request. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Yeah. We'd get 18 -- we'll approve that right away and..... 19 20 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. I really 21 appreciate it. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Yeah. Thank 24 you. Are there any questions or comments? 25 26 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 29 30 MR. HOLMES: Cassandra, I can't tell 31 you how excited I am about seeing this information and 32 having spent years climbing up and down the mountains, 33 waiting for the wind to break or sweeping down the 34 canyon in the Grumman Goose trying to make a guess as 35 to what fish were in the creeks or the lakes. This is 36 so, so cool and so exciting to be able to answer some 37 of those questions. And I'm just sorry it took 20 38 years to come up with some solutions. And it's just 39 great. And I'm glad you're report is really good and I 40 think you're pointing out that homepack is so important 41 for basically subsistence, for folks on the peninsula, 42 particularly Sand Point, King Cove, Perryville, I mean, 43 that's where they get their grub is from the commercial 44 catch and with very rare exceptions. 45 46 And so I think the work you're doing is 47 just exceptional and I think this really should give 48 our Committee here a good feeling for what's going on. 49 And I thought that, you know, the changes in management 50






Page 174

1 schemes there to try to get more fish, reds to Chignik 2 in June, that's painful for the South Peninsula 3 fisherman, yet that's something very necessary. 4 5 I was wondering if the run failures 6 there in Chignik and your turf and it's so sad that we 7 didn't have that weir at McLeese Lake to know what fish 8 -- what age classes were missing because if -- you 9 know, as Vincent said they only fish one to two weeks.

10 Then that's very indicative that that was probably a 11 run failure. And so my curiosity is do you have any 12 inkling on the missing age classes at Chignik and I 13 know you didn't get any sampling done because of no 14 weir at McLeese, but it just seems that with the timing 15 and having Afognak, Buskin, Pasagshak, Chignik, every 16 place that has a strong three ocean run not coming in, 17 I mean, that just is so critical to have that 18 information. 19 20 And I guess my question is you got any 21 notion of what group of fish or what age classes were 22 missing in these other areas or could one make that 23 judgment it was similar to Kodiak and those missing 24 groups? 25 26 MS. WHITESIDE: Through the Chair, Pat. 27 I don't know. I know that as you said everyone on the 28 gulf side had low returns last year. I -- we -- on the 29 South Alaska Peninsula we do not have a smolt project, 30 I can't speak to any other smolt projects around in the 31 gulf. I don't know what -- if they determined if it 32 was a specific age class or if it was just ocean 33 conditions that were unfavorable to that specific age 34 class. 35 36 MR. HOLMES: Well, I guess that kind of 37 answered a bit of another question I was going to ask 38 is if there were any smolt programs left because that 39 used to be a really vital function of the Department 20 40 years back. But I imagine with all the cuts that have 41 come in and I know Mark's predecessor, we had one here 42 at the Buskin and that one disappeared because of the 43 Federal funding. And it's just unfortunate that we 44 don't have that because that not only would provide 45 information for the agencies, but -- commercial 46 fishermen, but really of importance to subsistence 47 which is our concern. 48 49 So I wanted to thank you so much for 50






Page 175

1 your report. That's really swell. 2 3 MS. WHITESIDE: Thank you. 4 5 MR. KOSO: Madame Chair. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick. 8 9 MR. KOSO: Yeah, Cassandra, thanks for

10 that report. That was wonderful. That's the first 11 time I really got a chance to see the drone pictures 12 and I kept thinking of Adak, that would sure be 13 wonderful to be able to use that out there. 14 15 I guess the question I have is, you 16 know, just to -- one question right off would be the 17 20.6 million pinks that you forecast. I've never seen 18 that high of a forecast on the peninsula that I could 19 remember. I've always seen eight, nine, maybe 10 20 million at the highest or unless I'm missing something. 21 So..... 22 23 MS. WHITESIDE: This is the highest 24 forecast that has ever been done for the Southwest 25 Peninsula. 26 27 MR. KOSO: Yeah, I know a couple years 28 ago we did have a big season, but last year we didn't 29 have a season. So it was -- it's kind of strange to 30 see that kind of an estimate. But hopefully it'll 31 show. 32 33 And the other thing, I had a chance to 34 talk with Lisa, I know I've been trying to get that 35 Adak salmon fishery open for a long time. But I think 36 this year I was -- attended the meetings in February, 37 but Lisa was in the hotseat pretty bad there with 38 Chignik and everyone firing arrows at her from all 39 angles. So I kind of let her cool off before I 40 confronted her on Adak. Anyway I would like to speak 41 to you more on Adak. And there is a program right now 42 that the fish plant's got -- there's grant money out 43 there available to -- if you do salmon there's grant 44 money to get right now and we're trying to work on 45 getting that grant money. In order to do that we have 46 to have a guaranteed fishery. So I'll be pushing her 47 pretty hard on the next few days on that. 48 49 So anyway thanks again and it's been a 50






Page 176

1 very good report. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Rick. 4 5 Any other questions. 6 7 MR. PRICE: Madame Chair. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris.

10 11 MR. PRICE: Hey, thanks for the report 12 you guys and I appreciate you guys working with UNFA 13 Unalaska Native Fishermen's Association, that we can 14 cooperate and those folks being proactive. They're 15 really concerned about these fisheries and it's -- you 16 know, these number, 583 sockeye in Iliuliuk Lake and 17 315 in Morris Cove. You can see we have a sensitive 18 run out there that we want to keep tabs on. So I 19 appreciate this potential that we have with the drones 20 and I look forward to the future of that. 21 22 On this first page you said Volcano Bay 23 section, Southwestern district, is that Volcano Bay on 24 Unalaska Island that you're referring to? 25 26 MS. WHITESIDE: No. 27 28 MR. PRICE: No. 29 30 MS. WHITESIDE: This is the Dolgoi 31 Island area on the South..... 32 33 MR. PRICE: Okay. 34 35 MS. WHITESIDE: .....Alaska Peninsula. 36 There's a few sections in the Southwestern district and 37 then the entire Southcentral district..... 38 39 MR. PRICE: Okay. 40 41 MS. WHITESIDE .....of the South Alaska 42 Peninsula. 43 44 MR. PRICE: Okay. I was just checking. 45 Thank you. 46 47 MS. WHITESIDE: Yep. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Any other 50






Page 177

1 comments or questions. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Hearing none, 6 thank you very much for that report. 7 8 MS. WHITESIDE: Thank you. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: It's going to be 11 nice to look to the future and seeing some more of the 12 drone videos and what's going on. And that was 13 probably the only nice day last summer. 14 15 (Laughter) 16 17 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Lisa, we have a 18 request for Mark to do his report, but -- then we can 19 follow with you, is that..... 20 21 MS. FOX: Uh-huh. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 24 25 MS. FOX: This is Lisa Fox. I was just 26 up here in case anybody had any questions about other 27 things that weren't in Cassie's report, but I don't 28 have a specific report for you. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Does anybody 31 have any questions for Lisa while she's here. 32 33 (No comments) 34 35 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 36 37 MS. WHITESIDE: Thank you. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: We'll go ahead 40 and move on with Mark. 41 42 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Wait a minute, 45 Pat's got a question or comment. 46 47 MR. HOLMES: This is kind of a question 48 for you folks and then also for the Council. We got 49 quite a bit of support for the Partners grant and I was 50






Page 178

1 wondering on the FRMP if there needs to be -- and maybe 2 the Chairman or Zach could answer my question, I don't 3 know. Do we need to do more work on endorsing the 4 needs for McLeese Lake, I mean, we've got tons of 5 comments in our prior meetings and I just -- what can 6 we do to provide more support to make sure that the 7 McLeese funding occurs for the weir? 8 9 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 12 13 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair, this 14 is Zach Stevenson with the Federal Office of 15 Subsistence Management. Speaking generally and I hope 16 this addresses your question, Pat, I had asked our 17 fisheries team whether or not an update would be 18 provided on the selection of the FRMP or Fisheries 19 Resource MonitoringProgram applications and I'vetold -- 20 I've been informed that a news release will be coming 21 out shortly with the status of those applications. I 22 don't yet that that information. However I have been 23 told that the amount of support indicated for both the 24 FRMP and Partners proposal through this region was 25 historic, there was a tremendous outpouring of support. 26 27 Thank you, Madame Chair. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Zach. 30 And we did get our letter in in support of the project 31 also. 32 33 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 34 Chair. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Josh. 37 38 DR. REAM: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 39 will be offering a very brief report here in a few 40 minutes on the Partners Program, the FRMP and the 41 Fisheries Regulatory Program. 42 43 The Partners are in the final stages of 44 being decided, but the FRMP is in the early stages of 45 review. So that news release won't be out for quite 46 some time. 47 48 Thank you. 49 50






Page 179

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Josh. 2 Okay. We'll move on then with -- to Mark. 3 4 MR. WITTEVEEN: Madame Chairman, 5 Council members, my name is Mark Witteveen, I work with 6 the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, Sport Fish here 7 in Kodiak which covers Kodiak west all the way out the 8 chain. 9

10 So I am the principal investigator of 11 the Buskin River Sockeye Stock Assessment Project which 12 is funded by OSM. I did submit my report on time so 13 hopefully you have it. I didn't see it in the meeting 14 booklet, but hopefully you have that in hand. No. 15 Maybe Zach can email it to you. 16 17 Since you saw a lot of this in the 18 fall, Michelle Stratton presented most of this this 19 fall, I'll just kind of be breezing through it as we'll 20 be covering a lot of the same issues and focus more on 21 some of the more recent results. 22 23 As I'm sure you're all aware Buskin 24 sockeye was very low this year. The subsistence 25 fishery was closed, there was no commercial fishing 26 effort and the sport fishery was closed. And with all 27 those actions we still fell below our lower end 28 escapement goal, you can see it's around 4,000 with our 29 escapement goal is five to 8,000. 30 31 Lake Louise has been low over the last 32 several years and it continued to be low this year. 33 34 The timing of Buskin River sockeye is 35 typically pretty regularly distributed and you can see 36 in this graph the red bars indicate that the escapement 37 was sporadic and didn't follow any real trend. 38 39 Lake Louise is typically that way, such 40 a small system it usually responds to freshwater input. 41 And that's when it gets its escapement is just in -- 42 during rain events. 43 44 Kind of digging a little bit deeper, as 45 I mentioned last spring -- well, this is a bar chart of 46 the age composition of Buskin River sockeye salmon. So 47 it's -- it looks a little crowded, but the main four 48 age comps are age one/two, two/two, one/three and 49 two/three. And we did a little fish math last spring 50






Page 180

1 and I'll just kind of cover that very briefly again. 2 It's -- I don't want to get in the weeds, but in 3 general sockeye spend one or two years in the 4 freshwater and two or three years in the saltwater. So 5 if we look at fish that come back as two year olds, 6 spend two years in the saltwater, they're related -- 7 they're siblings of fish that come back as three year 8 olds the next year. So looking at two year olds in a 9 given year kind of gives us an idea of what's going to

10 happen next year with the three year olds. 11 12 So if you look in 2017, the first two 13 bars, the blue and red ones are pretty low. 14 Historically sometimes one is low and the other is not, 15 but 2017 was kind of the first year that we saw a low 16 value for both one/two and two/twos, the two saltwater 17 age classes. And so we kind of predicted this 2018 run 18 to be a poor one. Keep in mind that these are 19 percentages so they don't reflect the volume, they are 20 percentages. The 2018 run while small in magnitude was 21 a little bit more normal in composition. And I think 22 if you click it'll circle the age comps we're talking 23 about. So this year that second circle is a little bit 24 more typical of two ocean fish. So hopefully this is 25 not a long standing trend. 26 27 So again if we look at the age classes, 28 we don't normally do a formal forecast with this run or 29 we haven't historically, I took a little bit more of a 30 stab at it this year. So you can see the age one/two 31 on the X axis or horizontal axis is related to the age 32 three the next year. So a given dot is the value of an 33 age one/two fish in one year and an age one/three fish 34 the next year. So by drawing a line through that we 35 develop a trend and come up with a prediction. So this 36 year's age one/two return was something like 800 fish. 37 If we go up and match that with a line it predicts next 38 year's age one/two of 1,700 fish. 39 40 We look at age two/two versus two/three 41 and we come up with a prediction of that, of 4,900 for 42 this year. This relationship isn't quite as strong, 43 but it's still pretty good by fish math standards. 44 45 So that encompasses about 66 percent of 46 the run, those two ages. If we add those together, 47 apply the historical percentage, it gives us a forecast 48 of about 10,000 fish. With an escape goal of five to 49 eight, that gives us a harvest estimate of two to 5,000 50






Page 181

1 and the last several years we've averaged 8,500. So 2 we're looking better than last year, but still not very 3 good. 4 5 And here it is in graphical form. It's 6 again not as bad as last year, but certainly well off 7 the average. 8 9 And then just to touch on our intern

10 program that's sort of fundamental to this funding. We 11 had two interns last year, they both are now permanent 12 technicians with Fish and Game. I think we are up to 13 about 24 former interns have taken full-time positions 14 with Fish and Game out of 30. So it's a really great 15 program. We're working with Kelly and Tom at the 16 Sun'aq Tribe and have two interns this summer that 17 we're going to work with for a couple of weeks. And 18 then we also have funding in place with KANA to have a 19 intern with them if they can find one. 20 21 This is the final slide, this is our 22 crew this year. And we are in the process of hiring 23 interns for this summer and it's actually an astounding 24 crop of high school students. So it's a really hard 25 decision, there's some really good future biologists 26 coming up. 27 28 I think that's it. 29 30 Happy to answer any questions. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Mark. 33 34 Any questions or comments for Mark. 35 36 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 39 40 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, Mark, great report. 41 And I don't have to ask my regular question, what's 42 happening. It's good to see that we'll be getting a 43 little bit of run even though it's not going to be 44 anywhere near up to the mark. So I think that'll give 45 folks encouragement to think about other options, other 46 places to fish, getting out early, all sort of 47 different techniques on trying to get a few reds. But 48 at least the potential's there. With my dory being 49 killed I don't think I could run out to McLeese Lake so 50






Page 182

1 it'll have to be something closer. But anyway I think 2 that's good. 3 4 And I would like to commend you for 5 your report. I think your intern program is absolutely 6 outstanding. And I think that does provide for the 7 future biologists in an exceptional way. And for those 8 of our Council that don't know, the current area sport 9 fish biologist was a -- one of the early interns and he

10 worked his way up through the whole program and he's 11 Mark's boss and I'm sure the two of them might arm 12 wrestle now and then, but I think it's a really swell 13 program. And I think working with the tribes and 14 everything, it's just outstanding. 15 16 And I see Nate smiling in the back 17 because he's trying to do the same thing in the Game 18 Division. So hats off to you folks. 19 20 Thank you so much. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Any other 23 comments or questions. 24 25 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 28 29 MS. SKINNER: My question is for Zach. 30 Zach, do you have the presentation and can you email it 31 this morning? 32 33 MR. STEVENSON: I do. 34 35 MS. SKINNER: Thanks. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 38 you, Mark. Good report. Thank you. 39 40 I'm not sure exactly what this note. I 41 have a John Crye, Jackie Keating, Ben Mulligan are 42 next, all three or individually. 43 44 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 45 Those are individuals here participating from the 46 Alaska Department of Fish and Game. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And Nate. So 49 come on up. 50






Page 183

1 MR. SVOBODA: Good morning. My name's 2 Nate Svoboda, I'm the area wildlife biologist for 3 Alaska Department of Fish and Game here in Kodiak. 4 This is my colleague, John Crye. 5 6 And we're going to do something a 7 little bit different today largely because we gave you 8 a pretty in depth update in October and there hasn't 9 been a whole lot that's occurred since then with regard

10 to wildlife other than a bear season and kind of 11 wrapping up some of the previous season. So you should 12 have a handout that I handed out yesterday. Again I 13 apologize for not getting that to you sooner. That has 14 our most recent harvest information as well as just a 15 couple bullet points for each of the species. Nothing 16 too concerning or anything really worthy of pointing 17 out that I won't cover here in the presentation and 18 what we'll do today is just give you kind of a broader 19 overview of the wildlife program, kind of a historical 20 perspective as well to show you how some of the current 21 harvest compares to some of the historical numbers and 22 historical harvest. So it's kind of more of a 23 comprehensive look over the course of time as opposed 24 to just an update on recent harvest that we typically 25 get. It's been a few years, probably five or six years 26 since we've done this so we have a recent presentation 27 I thought might be valuable for some of the new Board 28 members in particular. 29 30 So some of this we'll cover here, I'm 31 sure a lot of you probably are familiar with this. But 32 again for the record my name's Nate Svoboda, I'm the 33 area wildlife biologist. John Crye is my colleague, 34 he's the assistant biologist. And then our program 35 technician is Katrina Wandersee who's relatively new, 36 I'm sure many of you probably haven't met her yet. 37 38 So Kodiak Island as you know is about 39 5,000 square miles. It is comprised of Afognak, 40 Raspberry, Kodiak, Sitkalidak and it goes all the way 41 from the Trinity Islands all the way down to Chirikok 42 Island. There's about 13,000 residents that make up 43 the archipelago. Kodiak Island has six villages as you 44 know spread throughout the island. It's primarily 45 mountainous alpine terrain down the central spine of 46 the island and up towards the north. And then kind of 47 withers away to tundra in the southern portions of the 48 island. 49 50






Page 184

1 The Kodiak archipelago is about 19 2 percent State of Alaska owned, about 16 percent of it 3 is owned by Native corporations. A significant 4 portion, about 52 percent, is comprised of the Kodiak 5 National Wildlife Refuge and then 13 percent is made up 6 of other private landowners. 7 8 On Kodiak this is kind of an overall 9 view of the Sitka black-tail deer. We really don't

10 have a good, robust population estimate. We often 11 throw numbers around just because people ask us to try 12 to quantify some of these numbers, but to be quite 13 honest with you we really don't have a good handle on 14 what the deer population is. What we do know is it 15 fluctuates primarily due to winter severity. That 16 seems to be the driving factor, much more so than 17 harvest, that seems to be mostly compensatory. 18 19 The Roosevelt elk population is 20 primarily over on Afognak and Raspberry Islands and 21 consists of between a thousand and 1,200 animals. 22 Mountain goats, we have somewhere between 3,000 and 23 3,500. Brown bears again is right around the 3,000, 24 3,500 area. And then the caribou fluctuates, but we 25 estimate somewhere between 250 to 350, maybe even 400 26 on good years. 27 28 So I'm going to start off here with 29 talking a little bit about Sitka black-tail deer. So 30 as many of you may know they were brought to Kodiak 31 Island between 1925 and 1934. There were three 32 transplants that took place where we acquired 25 deer 33 from Sitka, Prince of Wales and Petersburg. There was 34 some evidence of deer on Kodiak Island prior to 1925. 35 There was a letter from the territorial governor at the 36 time that said that there was deer on Kodiak Island in 37 the late 1800s and really early 1900s, however the 38 eruption of the volcano pretty much wiped everything 39 out so it justified an introduction or reintroduction 40 if you will in -- starting around 1925. 41 42 Deer are an important subsistence 43 species on the island and they are the primary 44 mammalian protein for many of the communities around 45 the island so they're a pretty important food resource 46 for many of us. And as I mentioned winter severity is 47 the primary factor impacting mortality. Regardless of 48 what harvest is, of course harvest can have localized 49 affects, some of these areas where we have really high 50






Page 185

1 harvest there are diminished numbers in some of those 2 area, but by and large overall deer are regulated by 3 winter severity, that seems to be the limiting factor. 4 5 There was a pretty significant decline 6 in 2016 and '17 where we estimate we lost 30 to 40 7 percent of the population. However deer on Kodiak 8 recover relatively quickly so we believe the 9 population's currently increasing. We think it's

10 probably back to many of the historical numbers, in 11 some of these areas it's already recovered pretty well. 12 This year should be a pretty good -- we've had a couple 13 mild winters, this year should be a pretty good year 14 for deer hunting. And deer do occupy all major islands 15 of the archipelago. And there's the seasons there, I 16 won't get into all the details of all this because I'm 17 sure many of you know these already. 18 19 Some of the issues that we have with 20 deer are obtaining a robust population estimate in 21 addition to having reliable indices where we can 22 monitor fluctuations. 23 24 So we did have one proposal that was 25 recently passed at the Board of Game which does change 26 some of the weapons restrictions. Basically what it 27 does is it now allows crossbows in all archery hunts. 28 That was one of the proposals that was recently passed 29 by the Board of Game. 30 31 Here's a little bit of the harvest 32 information, historical harvest. These are 10 year 33 averages. We average about 4,500 deer a year are 34 harvested and we have a really good male harvest, we 35 have about a 80 percent male harvest. And again 36 populations are -- primarily fluctuate due to winter 37 severity. And one interesting thing you can see on 38 this graph if you look at the bottom X axis the 39 asterisks following the regulatory year are years when 40 we had more harsh winters. And you can see -- granted 41 this isn't a population estimate, but you can see this 42 tracks really well with the population we believe. 43 This is harvest information and you can see like in 44 years where we have major winters, like 2006, 2008, 45 2011, 2016, we have deer -- deer populations peak and 46 then we have a winter and then the population crashes. 47 And then it builds back up and we have a peak and then 48 we have a severe winter. And you can see this general 49 pattern and that's what we believe also takes place 50






Page 186

1 within the population. Again these are harvest 2 numbers, but this tracks pretty close with population 3 estimates. 4 5 And this is hunter effort, again this 6 is our 10 year average. We average about 3,400 hunters 7 per year with right around a 70 percent overall success 8 rate. Hunters on the island primarily hunt by boat and 9 airplane. There is quite a bit of hunting that takes

10 place on the road system, but most of the successful 11 hunters are usually transported by either boat or plane 12 and about 15 percent are highway vehicle. 13 14 Moving on to Roosevelt elk. And these 15 are all pictures from Kodiak, these old pictures. If 16 -- you might recognize some of these people. 17 18 So Roosevelt elk were brought to Kodiak 19 Island in 1928. Eight calves were collected from Hoh 20 Valley, Washington. They were first actually brought 21 to Kodiak Island which many people don't know, however 22 there was some concerns from local ranchers regarding 23 grazing so the following spring they were moved to 24 Afognak Island where they still remain to this day. 25 They expanded pretty rapidly. We started with eight 26 calves in 1928. By 1933 we had over 30 animals and 27 then you can see from 1948 over 200, 1961, 1,100 and 28 then today we believe we're right around that 11 to 29 1,200 mark on a good year. In 1951 they were observed 30 on Raspberry Island which is adjacent to Afognak 31 Island. We believe the population is stable or perhaps 32 slightly increasing with about a thousand elk. There 33 are eight herds on the island, seven of them exist on 34 Afognak Island, one herd exists on Raspberry Island. 35 36 And for those that don't know this is 37 the northern most elk population in North America. It 38 is also one of the last remaining pure strains of 39 Roosevelt elk. Most of the elk that are in the lower 40 48 are hybridized with Rocky Mountain elk. So we have 41 a really unique elk population here, that being 42 Roosevelt elk which are typically much, much larger in 43 body size than Rocky Mountain elk, but they don't have 44 near the extravagant antler makeup that Rocky Mountains 45 do. But it is a really unique population so we're 46 pretty lucky to have it in my opinion. 47 48 There you can see we have the season 49 dates. We do have both drawing hunts as well as a 50






Page 187

1 registration hunt. There is also a Federal season that 2 just starts a little bit earlier, about 10 days earlier 3 than the State season. 4 5 We believe that there is some greater 6 potential for population growth of the elk population 7 on the island so we do have a study where we're working 8 with local Native corporation, particularly Afognak 9 Native Corporation, Koniag, Ouzinkie and Natives of

10 Kodiak to get a better idea on what the impact logging 11 has had on the island. As many of you probably know 12 Afognak has experienced pretty extensive logging since 13 about the 1970s, it continues to this day. So what 14 that's resulted in is a real patchwork of different 15 forest age stands across the landscape. And so what 16 we're trying to determine is what impacts, positive or 17 negative, this patchwork of or mosaic of different 18 forest age stands, how that's impacting wildlife on a 19 seasonal basis. So how's it impacting elk in 20 particular, but also how's it impacting bear and deer 21 and other animals that use the resources on the island. 22 23 This is our estimated population. 24 Again we believe it's stable to maybe slightly 25 increasing. In 2018 we had a minimum count of 688 26 animals. We have a management objective of a thousand. 27 You know, that 688 we -- it's -- that's our minimum 28 count so we do believe that we have more than that, we 29 do believe that we have about a thousand or 1,100. 30 There are a couple of population or metapopulations on 31 the island that we really just have difficulty counting 32 when we do our surveys. Most of the information we get 33 is anecdotal from other individuals, transporters, 34 fishermen, et cetera, hunters. 35 36 This is some of our historical harvest 37 information, our 10 year averages. We average about 61 38 elk per year and we have about a 52 percent bull 39 harvest. On any given year we harvest about 220 40 animals -- oh, wait a second. We have about 220 41 hunters a year, harvest about 63 animals per year which 42 is about a 26 percent success rate. 43 44 The primary mode of transportation 45 since as many of you know Afognak Island doesn't really 46 have a big road system, of course there's logging roads 47 which accounts for that 27 percent highway vehicle, but 48 primarily people use boats and planes to get over to 49 the island to hunt elk. 50






Page 188

1 As I mentioned we do have a pretty 2 large scale research project where we're partnering 3 with Afognak, Ouzinkie, Koniag and Kodiak Native 4 Corporations. It also has a partnership with Rocky 5 Mountain Elk Foundation, the Kodiak Brown Bear Trust 6 and then a couple major universities. And as I 7 mentioned there is concern regarding the impact of 8 habitat and resources and the population that this 9 logging has had.

10 11 So the goal of the project is to 12 investigate seasonal movements and resource use 13 relative to different forest age stands. So we're 14 trying to determine what habitats elk are using at 15 different times of year. So for instance winter versus 16 summer. What resources are they using within those 17 different habitats and how is that impacting them from 18 a reproductive standpoint, from a survival standpoint 19 and from a predatory standpoint. So we're collecting 20 hourly locations. We've collared 68 elk since 2016, at 21 about a 50 percent sex ratio. We're getting hourly 22 locations on every animal. We we've collected -- at 23 this point we've collected close to a million locations 24 where we can look at seasonal movements and seasonal 25 space use and how that relates to productivity, et 26 cetera. We are also doing a diet analysis study where 27 we collect fecal pellets in both the summer and in the 28 winter to determine what -- how their food resources 29 change based on resource availability and season. 30 31 Moving on to mountain goats. And this 32 is actually a picture of one of the first goats that 33 they caught to bring to Kodiak Island. It was swimming 34 in -- swimming in the Sound and the pulled up to it in 35 a float plane and -- as it was swimming and picked it 36 up and threw it in the back of the plane and brought it 37 to Kodiak Island. Kind of a cool story. But anyway, 38 moving on. So Kodiak goats were brought to Kodiak 39 between 1952 and 1953. Eleven females were brought 40 over and eight males, primarily from the Kenai 41 Peninsula. They expanded rapidly. Four goats were 42 observed in the surveys in 1957 and in 2017 we counted 43 3,254. So they've pretty much experienced eruptive 44 population growth since introduction. 45 46 In 2013 we increased the bag limit -- 47 the Board of Game increased the bag limit in 48 registration hunt 480 which I'll show you a map here in 49 a second, to two goats. 50






Page 189

1 As far as the goat population is 2 concerned we believe it is stable in most areas, 3 particularly those areas closer to the introduction 4 point. However it is slightly increasing in some of 5 the areas. Every year it seems to say that, you know, 6 I don't think goats are going to expand anymore, 7 they're in all their really good available habitats, 8 but sure enough they find other places to go. So it's 9 kind of a unique situation that we have here in Kodiak,

10 very unique compared to other areas of the State where 11 they don't have this eruptive growth that we 12 experience. Again we always say that they occur in 13 nearly all suitable islands throughout the island, but 14 they seem to prove us different every year. 15 16 There's our season dates. We do have 17 both a drawing and a registration season. The 18 registration season is on the southern half of the 19 island, it's pretty liberal, it's like a seven month 20 season, two goat bag limit. There's currently no 21 gender restrictions although I'll talk about that in a 22 second. So we have -- Kodiak Island is a goat hunting 23 destination hotspot and very quickly becoming more so. 24 There's a lot of hunters every year that come to Kodiak 25 to hunt goats and it seems to be increasing year in and 26 year out. So that's pretty good from an economic 27 standpoint. 28 29 Again we believe the population is 30 increasing and -- slightly increasing and expanding in 31 RG 480. So we do -- are trying to limit that 32 population expansion and there's a couple ways that 33 we've done that. And there is some concern regarding 34 the potential impact on vegetation is goats continue to 35 expand. 36 37 There was a couple -- I'll give you 38 guys these updates as well, but there was some goat 39 proposals at the most recent Board of Game meeting 40 which took place in March that did pass. And just to 41 give you a brief summary of these proposals or the 42 changes to these proposals, so in RG 471 to 470 -- 43 actually I'll wait a second until I show you the map 44 just so you can kind of grasp what I'm talking about. 45 46 So this right here is just going to be 47 a series of graphics on how the goat population 48 expanded. So in 1952 this is where they were 49 introduced, where that star is kind of in the upper 50






Page 190

1 right center. And then if we click through slowly like 2 the few -- so this is how they expanded in the '70s, 3 and then the '80s, and then the '90s and then the 4 2000s, 2010s and then this is since 2011 to current. 5 So you can see the expansion of the goat population 6 across the island. It's pretty telling. These numbers 7 are indicative of individuals, this is just our survey 8 information. So each one of those dots represents, you 9 know, anywhere from one to I don't know, 20 or 30

10 goats. But that does give you an idea how the 11 population expanded across the island in a relatively 12 short amount of time. 13 14 So these are our goat hunt areas. As 15 you can see on the right side or the top half of the 16 island is primarily drawing hunts and those are 17 followed up by registration hunts if we don't meet our 18 harvest objective during the drawing season we will 19 open a registration hunt in these areas and we close 20 them down by emergency order. However in RG 480 which 21 is kind of the lower half of the island there, we do 22 have pretty liberal hunting regulations, there's two 23 goat bag limits, seven month season, pretty wide open, 24 the faucet's pretty wide open as far as harvest goes. 25 26 So here I'll briefly touch on the 27 changes that were made at the recent Board of Game 28 meeting. These changes won't come into affect until 29 next year, but these are the changes nonetheless. So 30 in RG 471 to 479 which is that upper half there, with 31 regard to the registration hunt which I mentioned 32 follows the drawing hunt, the drawing hunt occurs 33 first, the registration hunt used to run or currently 34 runs from November 1st to December 15th. It's now been 35 expanded from November 1st to January 31st. So we 36 added about six weeks to the season in the registration 37 hunt. Again when we start to approach our harvest 38 objectives we'll close it down by emergency order, but 39 we haven't reached our harvest objectives in all these 40 units year to year so we try to provide as much 41 opportunity as possible. So we'll let that season run 42 for six more weeks or up until we approach our harvest 43 objective. 44 45 And in RG 480 another change that 46 occurred there, we lengthened the season by 47 approximately 11 days. It's pretty minimal, but it 48 went from August 20th to March 20th, but now it goes 49 from August 20th to March 31st. We only extended it by 50






Page 191

1 11 days because as many of you know April 1st bear 2 season opens up and we didn't -- we wanted to conflicts 3 between goat hunters and bear hunters. So it does 4 provide a little more opportunity, 11 days. 5 6 The other change that was made is the 7 previous or the current I should say regulations allow 8 for the two goat bag limit. Those two goats can be of 9 either sex. The recent change at the Board of Game

10 will require one of those goats -- only one of which 11 will be a billy. So you can't harvest two billies if 12 you're hunting -- if you're taking advantage of the two 13 goat bag limit, one of those has to be a nanny. And 14 that's one of the small steps that we're taking to try 15 to limit population growth, try to reduce the number of 16 nannies having kids. 17 18 Another change that came up at the 19 Board of Game in 478 and 479 which is the hunts on the 20 road system up there in the upper right-hand corner. 21 The season used to or currently runs November 1st to 22 December -- oh, back up one. Forward, forward, 23 forward. Other way. Keep going. Keep going. Keep 24 going. Five more times, one more, two more, one more. 25 There you go. 26 27 Okay. 28 29 478 and 479 used to be archery only 30 from November 1st to December 15th. Now we have a 31 season that runs -- it's archery only from November 1st 32 to December 15th and then we have muzzleloaders, 33 archery and crossbows are going to be allowed from 34 December 16th to January 31st. There's been no change 35 in the bag limit, but there was a change, but there was 36 a change in the methods and means that you can use to 37 harvest those animals. And again when we approach our 38 objectives we'll close it down by emergency order. 39 40 Great. All right. Moving on. Thank 41 you. 42 43 So this is kind of a good graphic of -- 44 you can see the eruptive population growth that we've 45 experienced. This just cover the last 20 years of 46 growth, but you can see how the population has 47 increased. Again our 2017 minimum count was 3,254 and 48 we have a good kid to adult ratio, about a 24 percent 49 kid ratio in any given year. 50






Page 192

1 So our mountain goat harvest as you can 2 see is pretty robust at the moment. We have -- we 3 harvest about 241 goats per year and it's about a 65 4 percent billy harvest. We did see in 2013 when we 5 implemented the two goat bag limit we did see a pretty 6 dramatic increase in the number of hunters. A lot more 7 hunters come, but we still don't have a lot of people 8 shooting two goats. We have between 20 and 30 people 9 harvest two goats in any given way. So they're not

10 making a huge impact, but all these little things I 11 think kind of help our cause. And we do have a 42 12 percent hunter success rate on average. 13 14 So moving on to brown bears. I'm sure 15 many of you have a pretty good idea on the history of 16 Kodiak brown bears. But they were isolated from other 17 bears on Kodiak Island about 12,000 years ago. They 18 are the largest brown bears in the world and so they do 19 attract thousands of visitors to Kodiak Island every 20 year. So that's a pretty big financial or economic 21 impact on our community. We believe the population is 22 stable to slightly increasing in some areas at about 23 3,500 animals. Again the occur on all major islands of 24 the archipelago and as you know they are a highly 25 valued trophy hunt. Our spring -- we have both a 26 spring and a fall season there. We have both a 27 registration and a drawing season. There are 31 28 drawing hunt areas throughout the island and one 29 registration hunt which consists of primarily the road 30 system area that the dates align with the drawing hunt, 31 but there are no limits to the number of permits we 32 issue for registration. 33 34 As always it seems we have urban -- we 35 have issues with urban bears and village bear and that 36 primarily relates to proper waste management. This is 37 something that we deal with on a daily basis dealing 38 with roll carts and proper waste management. So that's 39 a never ending battle that we seem to deal with. 40 41 We also are collaborating with the 42 Refuge on berry phenology and distribution study as 43 Bill mentioned yesterday. I won't go into the details 44 of that because Bill covered it pretty extensively. 45 46 One of the things that we're lacking is 47 a -- an updated robust population estimate. My 48 predecessor, Dr. VanDale, had a pretty good population 49 estimate in the '90s although we think it's time that 50






Page 193

1 we use some of the more modern techniques and provide 2 an updated population estimate. So that's something 3 that we're going to be working on here in the next 4 couple years. It's a big undertaking as you can 5 imagine, we live on a big island and bears can be 6 pretty difficult to count. So that's something that 7 we'll be working on. 8 9 There was one or there's numerous bear

10 proposals at the recent Board of Game meeting and I 11 won't get into the details of that, but if any of you 12 follow Kodiak bear hunting and that it was a pretty 13 interesting meeting from that standpoint. But the one 14 proposal that did pass that will impact Kodiak which is 15 pretty minor, we usually have two drawings for Kodiak 16 bears so when you apply to hunt for a Kodiak brown bear 17 we used to or we currently have a drawing that occurs 18 in December when most of the drawing occurs and then we 19 have another one that occurs in May. And that was 20 unique to Kodiak Island, it wasn't anywhere else in 21 Alaska, it was just a drawing specific to Kodiak Island 22 bears. That's going away. That's going to be rolled 23 into the Decemberdrawing so that's for most people's -- 24 yeah, non-resident guided hunters are the big people 25 that it affects so not a lot of people here at this 26 meeting. But nonetheless that is a proposal that 27 passed at the recent Board of Game. 28 29 Here's our -- kind of a long history of 30 brown bear harvest. We harvest right around 200 31 animals a year, that includes both the spring and the 32 fall season. It ranges anywhere from 165 to about 250 33 animals. We have a really good -- we shoot for a 34 minimum of a 60 percent male harvest, we don't ever 35 want to drop below that. And we average about a 73 36 percent male harvest which is really good, that's what 37 we want. We have really productive bears on the 38 island. And non-hunting mortality is much higher than 39 we prefer it to be, but we average -- on 10 year 40 average we lose about 27 bears a year to non-hunting 41 mortality. And those are DLPs which is the big thing, 42 occasionally we have some hit by cars, sometimes we 43 have illegal harvest, not very often, but it's 44 primarily related to bears killed in defense of life 45 and property. So that's something, that's another -- 46 kind of like proper waste management, it's another 47 battle that we deal with on a daily basis. 48 49 As you know Kodiak is most -- Kodiak 50






Page 194

1 bears are mostly known for being a trophy hunt species. 2 So this is a graphic people like to look at. Basically 3 this is the number of five year averages of trophy 4 skulls. For those who don't know a trophy bear skull 5 is anything that measures over 28 inches. If you take 6 the length and the width and add them together if it's 7 over 28 inches it's considered a Boone and Crockett 8 trophy skull. And this is what Kodiak bears are 9 managed for. And you can see that the number of trophy

10 skulls has consistently increased over time, at least 11 since the early '90s we consistently harvest large 12 bears every year. And this is exactly what we want in 13 a harvest management program, particularly a management 14 program that focuses on trophy species. And for those 15 who are interested we do regularly find a number of 16 trophy skulls that are just found out in the field, 17 people find them fairly regularly. We -- of course we 18 don't know whatthose bears have died from, but it is -- 19 it does provide some support that we do have bears on 20 the island that are just dying of old age or 21 complications related to something like that which is 22 also what we like to see. We don't like to see all the 23 bears die from harvest when they get old, we like some 24 bears to die from just being old bears. So we do have 25 evidence of that which is also really promising of a 26 good management strategy. 27 28 So we do have a couple research 29 projects. These are related to elk research project 30 that I mentioned earlier, at least most of these are. 31 32 We do have kind of a unique project on 33 Sitkalidak Island, it's been going on since the '90s. 34 It's a collaborative project with Old Harbor Native 35 Corporation and the community of Old Harbor where we 36 are looking at the reproductive interval of adult 37 females and we're also looking at cub production and 38 cub survival. So the three main objectives that -- of 39 this study are how many cubs are born each year, what's 40 the survival rate of those cubs until they're weaned so 41 until they're about three and a half years old. And 42 then what's the reproductive interval of females, so 43 how often are females having cubs, are they having them 44 every three years, every four years, every five years, 45 how many are they having, how often are they having 46 them and then how long are they living. Those are the 47 three main objectives although now with the -- with the 48 recent deployment of GPS collars we also have 49 opportunity now to look at -- to examine -- to look at 50






Page 195

1 seasonal resource use and space use. So similar to elk 2 on Afognak we're looking at how -- resource use so what 3 they're eating primarily, how that changes throughout 4 different seasons. 5 6 Similarly on Afognak we also have a 7 number of bears collared and we're looking at survival 8 rates, productivity and then again habitat use, 9 seasonal habitat use and resource use and how that is

10 impacted by logging. 11 12 And again as I mentioned and I won't 13 get into the details because Bill covered it, is we are 14 working with the Refuge on a berry phenology study. 15 16 We do do quite a bit of public outreach 17 particularly with regard to bears. So these are just a 18 couple of the things that we have either recently 19 wrapped up or that we have ongoing. For instance the 20 school of Old Harbor this year a -- what they call play 21 space learning where the students focus all the 22 different disciplines, whether it be math, science, 23 history, English, reading, whatever, they have a common 24 thread that being the Kodiak brown bear. So a lot of 25 their classes and a lot of their different disciplines 26 that they're studying all have a common thread of 27 Kodiak brown bear so they're somehow tied into their 28 curriculum. 29 30 We also worked with the students as you 31 can see on the upper left-hand corner there was a bear 32 killed in defense of life or property last year. So we 33 went down there, worked with the kids as well as the 34 RAT, the military guys, and had the kids skin the bear, 35 cut all the meat off of it and then we had the military 36 guys dig a big hole with one of their backhoes and the 37 kids helped us build it or bury it. The idea being 38 this spring or possibly next spring, we'll see how it 39 goes, the students are going to dig it up as part of an 40 archeological project and then reconstruct the bear so 41 they have a bear skeleton that they can put in their 42 school or do whatever they think is appropriate. So 43 that's kind of exciting. 44 45 We also have a project with the local 46 schools, Kodiak High School in particular, where 47 they're retrofitting dumpsters. I talked to you guys 48 about this in the past where they're changing non-bear 49 resistant dumpers, the welding class is retrofitting 50






Page 196

1 them to make them bear resistant. And then once they 2 do their welding they slide it on over to the art 3 students and then they decorate them with bear aware 4 messages. So not only is it helping from a safety 5 perspective, but it also helps beautify some of the 6 dumpsters that we have around town. We also have a 7 bear safety group that consists of numerous agencies, 8 the Refuge, KPD, Alaska Waste, et cetera, where we 9 monitor bear observations in and around town. We do a

10 number of bear aware presentations throughout the 11 community, we do public service announcements, et 12 cetera, and we also are pretty involved with the Kodiak 13 Unified Bear Subcommittee which is a subcommittee of 14 the Kodiak AC. 15 16 Last -- well, almost lastly, furbearers 17 I'll talk on briefly. So I won't go through each one 18 of these species, but you can see what our harvest 19 numbers are on -- or when they were brought to the 20 island and then when the seasons are and then some of 21 the issues I'll talk about a little bit more. We have 22 seen in recent years localized high harvest of red fox 23 along the road system. This has I think kind of 24 dwindled in the last year or two and I think that's 25 largely related to fur prices. But that was a concern 26 for a couple years. 27 28 An ongoing concern that we have is the 29 number of mink that are increasing along the road 30 system and on Long Island. Mink are non-native to 31 Kodiak and we don't want them here. But they started 32 to show up on the road system a couple years ago. So 33 this is a big concern that we want to get a handle on 34 right away. We'll see how that goes. 35 36 There's just a little bit of numbers 37 for furbearer harvest. I won't get into the details, 38 but this tracks very well with furbearer prices. As 39 you can imagine as furbearer prices increases harvest 40 has a tendency to increase. When furbearer prices are 41 low, we don't have as much interest in people 42 harvesting fur. So that's kind of the take home 43 message there. 44 45 And lastly talking about our caribou 46 population, our feral reindeer population. In 1924 we 47 had 32 feral reindeer brought to Kodiak, to Alitak. 48 They were reclassified from feral reindeer to caribou 49 in 2011. We subsequently opened up a season on them. 50






Page 197

1 We do believe the population -- well, we're not really 2 sure on the population. We don't have -- we don't have 3 regular surveys down there, it's more anecdotal 4 evidence and information we collect from transporters 5 and hunters. But we believe there's somewhere around 6 300 to 400 animals that primarily exist on Ayakulik and 7 Sturgeon River drainages. We do have a season that 8 extends pretty long and right now it just requires a 9 harvest tag so there is no registration or drawing.

10 However in the last two or three years we have seen a 11 pretty significant increase in interest in harvest. So 12 that's been a concern of ours. We didn't have any 13 proposals at the most recent Board of Game meeting, but 14 I am going to submit a proposal to the next Board of 15 Game meeting to switch this season from a harvest 16 ticket only to a registration or a drawing hunt. That 17 will be coming up at one of the Board of Game meetings 18 here in the near future. 19 20 The harvest of caribou has been the 21 highest it's been on the island ever the last three 22 years. So that's a real concern. We're harvesting 23 around 45 to 50 animals a year and it doesn't take a 24 mathematician to figure out that if you're harvesting 25 50 animals of a population of 350 it's not going to 26 take long to get rid of those animals. So this is a 27 concern, we're going to be bringing it up at one of the 28 upcoming Board of Game meetings and we'll see where it 29 goes from there. 30 31 So I think there's one more slide. 32 That's pretty much the caribou range, that's where they 33 exist on the island. That darker red color there is 34 kind of their core area if you will, that's where they 35 spend a significant portion of their time. That's 36 basically their two historical ranges. 37 38 And then I think might be close to the 39 last slide, but you can see here we had a pretty 40 consistent harvest for a couple -- for at least about a 41 decade there we were harvesting right around, you know, 42 10 to maybe 20 animals, 17 animals. And then all of a 43 sudden in 2014 and '15 it picked up and then '16, '17 44 and again this year it picked up pretty significantly. 45 So that tan line there is the harvest numbers and you 46 can see we're approaching 50 animals the last couple 47 years and again this year we'll probably reach that 48 limit again so that's a concern of ours. 49 50






Page 198

1 And then I believe that's it. 2 3 And I'll be happy to answer any 4 questions that you might have. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Nate. 7 8 MS. SVOBODA: Yeah. 9

10 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 13 14 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, Nate. I wanted to 15 thank you for your really great report and for your 16 work with Fish and Wildlife Service and providing for 17 subtle tweaks in the management that will assist folks 18 in subsistence, particularly the bears, registration 19 hunt on mountain goats that was worked out with Dr. 20 VanDale when he was here. And then this year your work 21 with both you and Bill with the mountain group study 22 group not only providing for additional harvest for 23 sport, but also to provide some I think distinct 24 advantages for the folks down in Old Harbor and Akiak 25 for late winter goats when they're more accessible and 26 where uncles can take their nieces and nephews out and 27 teach them how to hunt mountain goats without the 28 uncles having to blow themselves out climbing the 29 mountains. 30 31 And I have one question. We had some 32 concern expressed at our meeting earlier about reported 33 sow and cubs on Near Island. And I was wondering if 34 there is a potential, if she's still there, to move her 35 or find some solutions because that does make a really 36 nice place for recreational walking without having to 37 carry your .44 or your shotgun. 38 39 And so thank you very much. 40 41 MR. SVOBODA: Sure. Thanks, Pat. 42 Through the Chair. Yeah, we have heard of that report 43 of a sow with cubs on Near Island. I haven't confirmed 44 that, but I have no reason to doubt the individuals 45 that have reported that. Typically bears that come to 46 Near Island, this isn't unique, we've had this -- we 47 pretty much have it almost every year. And typ -- not 48 necessarily a sow with cubs, but we get bears on Near 49 Island relatively frequently. Typically they don't 50






Page 199

1 stick around very long. So I don't think it's a big 2 concern. The State has a policy where we don't move 3 bears. There's a variety of reasons for that, 4 displacement of other bears, there's liability issues 5 if something were to occur with a bear that was moved, 6 et cetera, et cetera. So that's something that we 7 don't often do. But I'm not terrible concerned about 8 this bear staying on Near Island because what we've 9 seen in the past is they typically will be there,

10 they'll realize there's not a whole lot there, there's 11 a lot of traffic, there's a lot of people that use the 12 trail system out there. And bears quite frankly don't 13 want to be around people. And so I wouldn't be 14 surprised one bit if that bear's either already off the 15 island or soon will be. 16 17 MR. HOLMES: And then again if there 18 was a problem, if she ended up charging a few people 19 then I'm sure you folks would take appropriate action. 20 21 MR. SVOBODA: Correct. 22 23 MR. HOLMES: Thank you. 24 25 MR. SVOBODA: Yeah. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Any other 28 questions. 29 30 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. 33 34 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. 35 Thank you for the report. That was a whole lot so I 36 have a couple of things that I wanted to ask about. 37 38 So just bear with me..... 39 40 MR. SVOBODA: Sure. 41 42 MS. HAYDEN: .....if you don't mind. 43 One of the questions, the map that you showed of the 44 elk distribution in the regions didn't include Afognak 45 Island or any of the northern portions of the 46 archipelago. Is there not -- is there -- or not elk, 47 goat. Sorry. Is -- are goat not present in the 48 northern part of the islands and if they are are they 49 not being counted or managed? 50






Page 200

1 MR. SVOBODA: Just on Kodiak Island. 2 Yeah, so there's no goats on Afognak or Raspberry or 3 any of those. 4 5 MS. HAYDEN: Okay. So that's helpful. 6 And so my -- and then I was going to ask a question 7 about the elk and bear. That's probably why I said elk 8 because I was also thinking about elk, the elk and the 9 bear habitats. And the number -- the population work

10 that you're doing, the research..... 11 12 MR. SVOBODA: Uh-huh. 13 14 MS. HAYDEN: .....do you have an idea 15 of when those research projects are going to be 16 completed or you're going to start to be able to report 17 some results of those projects? 18 19 MR. SVOBODA: Yep, for sure. So 20 there's a couple things, Natasha, for your question. 21 Through the Chair. There's a couple things. So we had 22 two Ph.D students working on that project. And we have 23 a number of animals collared, as I mentioned we have 24 close to a million locations that we currently have. 25 There's a couple things that we're doing. So one of 26 the things that we're doing is we have to develop 27 resource selection functions which are basically models 28 that predict or that show what bears have been using at 29 different times of year. And there's certain 30 parameters that go into those models. For instance 31 vegetation type is one of them for example, or slope or 32 aspect of the mountain range. So these are different 33 variables or parameters that go into the models. One 34 of those parameters is forest age. And so one of the 35 big tasks that we have working along with our Native 36 partners is getting historical harvest data for 37 forestry stands. So we need to know in each forest 38 unit when -- I mean, the bare minimum information that 39 we need are when was that particular area harvested and 40 then -- well, that's basically it. When was it 41 harvested, how long ago has it been harvested. And so 42 as you know I'm sure there's a patchwork of different 43 logged areas throughout Afognak Island. 44 45 So right now we're working with our 46 partners at primarily Afognak Native Corporation and 47 Koniag to get all that information together. Once we 48 have that information we have everything else where we 49 can start building these models and the Ph.D. students 50






Page 201

1 are anxiously awaiting to do that. But we can't really 2 move forward until we have that critical forest harvest 3 information. And talking to the -- our partners at the 4 Native corporations, is that something that we're -- we 5 have a -- they have quite a bit of it already, it's 6 just a process of getting the rest of that information. 7 I know we have some GIS people working on it pretty 8 aggressively. As soon as we get that information we 9 can start building these resource models. And the

10 project is -- the project's going to end in 2022 11 whether we're there or not. That's when the funding 12 runs out. But we anticipate getting most of that 13 information this summer and starting to do some 14 preliminary modeling and then be able to have some 15 really good hard results probably hopefully in the fall 16 depending on when we get that information, but 17 certainly by next year we would for sure. 18 19 But we're also collecting data. Next 20 summer we're going to go out and collar another hundred 21 animals and so we'll follow them for another two years. 22 So all that information, it's kind of a -- kind of an 23 ongoing thing. You know, we'll get all the information 24 we have, start building -- doing some preliminary 25 modeling, coming up with some preliminary results. As 26 more data comes in we'll feed that into the models and 27 not until probably 2021, 2022 will we have kind of our 28 final models and our management recommendations and 29 stuff like that. 30 31 So I don't -- that's kind of a long 32 answer to your question, but those are kind of some of 33 the steps along the way and some of the potential 34 cruxes that we have to navigate. 35 36 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. 39 40 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. 41 42 MR. SVOBODA: Sure. 43 44 MS. HAYDEN: That is very helpful. I 45 love that kind of answer. 46 47 Thank you. 48 49 MR. SVOBODA: Sure. 50






Page 202

1 MS. HAYDEN: But you brought up 2 something else that I wanted to ask about and that's 3 the collaring. We had had some reports from our 4 hunters and harvesters that they had witnessed several, 5 at least two elk, that seemed to be in distress, that 6 the collars were ill-fitted, that maybe they were a 7 little tighter than they should have been. And so do 8 you have any -- is that just anecdotal information or 9 have you guys -- is that program, the collaring

10 program, is it developed to try to prevent that from 11 happening in the future or..... 12 13 MR. SVOBODA: Yes. 14 15 MS. HAYDEN: .....if you could just 16 maybe give me a little bit of information on that? 17 18 MR. SVOBODA: Yes, absolutely. Through 19 the Chair. that's a great question. And that was a 20 huge concern of us. So Roosevelt elk, bull Roosevelt 21 elk on Kodiak have never been radio collared before, 22 we've never put any radio collars on any bulls before. 23 And those of you who know a little bit about elk 24 biology, particularly bulls, when they enter the rut 25 their necks swell up incredibly, I mean, two to three 26 times what they are. You know, they can go from this 27 big to this big without hesitation. I mean, they 28 expand tremendously. And so when we collared these 29 bulls we do a couple things. One, all these collars 30 have release mechanisms so they're preprogrammed, at a 31 certain date all the collars blow off the animals so 32 they don't have to -- unlike historically when you put 33 a collar on a animal they would stay on the collar 34 forever. That's not the case anymore. We have release 35 mechanisms. We also -- what we do, we take it a step 36 further and we put biodegradable links on the collar so 37 after about two years if the release mechanism would 38 fail for some reason because they are mechanical, 39 they're battery operated, we have these biodegradable 40 material that will biodegrade after about two years. 41 So even if that release mechanism fails the collar 42 should fall off after about two to three years 43 depending on the individual animal. 44 45 So but to get to your point, yeah, we 46 did have some reports of two bull elk last year who had 47 ill-fitting collars. We believe they were probably 48 expanded too much and caused some damage..... 49 50






Page 203

1 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. My 2 apologies for the interruption. 3 4 MR. SVOBODA: That's okay. 5 6 MR. STEVENSON: I've just received 7 notification that we've lost audio and I'm getting a 8 request from Lynn to reboot the audio system so that 9 our public can hear the meeting. Take a pause just for

10 -- through the Chair..... 11 12 MR. SVOBODA: Sure. 13 14 MR. STEVENSON: .....a brief pause. 15 16 (Pause) 17 18 (Off record comments - audio) 19 20 MR. SVOBODA: Okay. So, yeah, we had a 21 couple of reports, summer reports of a bull with ill -- 22 bulls with ill-fitting collars. So that was a big 23 concern to us, you know, animal safety and human safety 24 are paramount for us. So there are some things we're 25 doing this summer. For instance, we didn't have any 26 plans this summer to do any collaring or anything, not 27 until next year. But due to that concern this summer 28 particularly in June we're going to be going out and 29 recapturing all the bulls and basically assessing their 30 collar fit and more to the point is assessing what 31 impact, you know, because they're not in the rut right 32 now, they won't be this summer and so if there's any 33 potential damage that occurred last rut we're just 34 going to remove the collars and not put any collars on 35 any bulls anymore until we have a more reliable system. 36 And there are some really promising things right now. 37 For instance there's some expandable radio collars that 38 expand and constrict as the animal's neck swells and 39 goes back down. Those weren't available two years ago 40 when we put those collars on, it's relatively new. 41 They're still kind of being tested in some areas. 42 They're used them on moose, they've used them on some 43 elk in the -- down in Washington and Oregon. 44 45 So we're not 100 percent sure if we're 46 going to go with those, but if -- but we are going to 47 recapture animals this summer, bulls, and if we notice 48 any damage, you know, damage from the previous rut then 49 we're just going to remove the collars on all the bulls 50






Page 204

1 and that's going to be taken out of the study. Because 2 as I mentioned animal safety is paramount to us. So if 3 there's any potential negative impacts on the animals 4 it's quite frankly just not worth the information. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 7 you. 8 9 Any other comments or questions.

10 11 MS. CHERNOFF: Madame Chair. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Coral 14 15 MS. CHERNOFF: Yeah, thank you, Nate, 16 for that report. I enjoyed the change up in the style, 17 it was interesting. 18 19 I was just wondering do you have the 20 subsistence numbers for brown bears, deer, elk or 21 could..... 22 23 MR. SVOBODA: I do have, but I grabbed 24 the wrong piece of paper. 25 26 MS. CHERNOFF: .....could you mail 27 them? 28 29 MR. SVOBODA: Yeah, for sure. And I 30 actually had them yesterday and then I went back to the 31 office and I left them sitting on my desk. 32 33 John might know a couple. I think we 34 had no subsistence bears last season in the fall, but 35 in the spring we had two, is that right, or vice versa 36 for bears. 37 38 MR. CRYE: And it's..... 39 40 MR. SVOBODA: We still might have them. 41 42 MR. CRYE: .....as far as for deer it 43 overlaps with the State season so basically we just 44 have January and it's generally less than 1 percent of 45 the deer are taken in January. I mean, it's very few 46 deer in January. 47 48 MR. SVOBODA: And there's usually maybe 49 one to three elk in the subsistence..... 50






Page 205

1 MR. CRYE: Maybe..... 2 3 MR. SVOBODA: .....if that. 4 5 MR. CRYE: .....one every other year. 6 7 MR. SVOBODA: Yeah, it's pretty 8 minimal. We can get those numbers for you for sure. I 9 thought Bill might have had them. Hey, there he is,

10 he's on it. But we can get those to you for sure. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 13 14 MS. CHERNOFF: Madame Chair. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead, Coral. 17 18 MS. CHERNOFF: So my next question, I 19 know there's been talk this year about the mink. So I 20 guess I'm just wondering is there something happening 21 with that, or people are free -- since it's not listed 22 in the trapping book I don't believe are -- is that 23 going to be added to the trapping to encourage people 24 to trap them or have you ever -- I know it didn't show 25 mink introduction in your presentation, but I have seen 26 a paper online and I have a book at home for mink 27 transplants in Karluk. 28 29 MR. SVOBODA: Uh-huh. 30 31 MS. CHERNOFF: So I was also wondering 32 has there been any capture and attempt to since they 33 know where those mink came from, is there any kind of 34 DNA evidence of..... 35 36 MR. SVOBODA: Yeah. 37 38 MS. CHERNOFF: .....those lining up 39 or..... 40 41 MR. SVOBODA: Sure. Good question, 42 Coral, thanks. And through the Chair. Yeah, there 43 have -- historically there have been mink farms on 44 Kodiak so it's not -- it's not that there hasn't been 45 mink before. And it's not too surprising that, you 46 know, elk or mink can escape from mink farms and 47 whatever. But we went through a long period of time 48 where we didn't have any sign of mink on the island at 49 all. So my predecessors and others have pretty much -- 50






Page 206

1 were pretty much under the assumption that mink were 2 pretty much extirpated from the island. Interestingly 3 enough about five or six years ago we had an individual 4 who was really aggressively trying to get approval to 5 bring mink to the island and to release them. Fish and 6 Game denied them multiple times and they were pretty 7 adamant about it and then lo and behold about a year or 8 two later minks started showing up on the road system. 9

10 So I'm not pointing fingers at anybody 11 or placing blame, I mean, you can connect your own 12 dots, but what we have been doing and you can harvest 13 mink, you can trap them and use them. But so we've 14 been collecting samples. They're not mandatory to 15 bring into our office so for those people who do catch 16 them they oftentimes just handle them on their own. 17 But the ones that we have collected which I think we 18 probably have what, maybe 10 or 12 now at most, we've 19 collected DNA from them and eventually what we'd like 20 to do is somehow try to link that to other mink 21 populations that are either relatively close or if we 22 can get any of those historical samples just to try to 23 see if there's any connection. Unfortunately we -- you 24 know, we really don't have a budget to do that and it's 25 not super high on Fish and Game's priority list. It's 26 more of kind of a novel question that we'd like to 27 know. But we're more concerned about getting rid of 28 the population so they don't impact other native 29 species or birds in particular. Yep. 30 31 MS. CHERNOFF: Okay. Yeah, that was -- 32 my question was what other species might they be 33 impacting. I know I've seen some, I don't know if they 34 eat fish and hangout in the rivers..... 35 36 MR. SVOBODA: Fish, eggs. 37 38 MS. CHERNOFF: .....I know I've seen 39 pictures of them along the Buskin. 40 41 MR. SVOBODA: Yeah, birds. Yeah, they 42 can -- they can be pretty devastating to..... 43 44 MS. CHERNOFF: Rats. 45 46 MR. SVOBODA: .....to rats. Yeah, they 47 can be devastating to fish and eggs and birds for sure. 48 So that's one of the reasons you want to get on it 49 right away before it gets out of hand. 50






Page 207

1 MS. CHERNOFF: That was kind of my next 2 question too. Kind of what -- at what point would you 3 get on it and what would that mean, like 4 eradication..... 5 6 MR. SVOBODA: Yeah. 7 8 MS. CHERNOFF: .....efforts? 9

10 MR. SVOBODA: Through the Chair. Yeah, 11 that is also a good question that I really don't have 12 an answer to. That would probably fall -- that would 13 certainly be one of our responsibilities, but we'd also 14 probably have to get our invasive species people 15 involved. And I guess the kind of good part is we 16 haven't really seen an explosion of mink per se, you 17 know, we've -- there's been a slight uptick in people 18 reporting them and people claiming that they see them. 19 But I wouldn't say that it's really gotten out of hand 20 yet. And, you know, I don't know where to quantify 21 that, what -- what does that mean, out of hand, you 22 know, I don't -- I don't really have a way to quantify 23 that. But we're not to the point I guess where we need 24 to bring in the heavy guns and do some sort of 25 eradication program. And hopefully just with the 26 current trapping that is ongoing on the island and what 27 we believe are still minimal mink populations, 28 hopefully it'll just kind of take care of itself, but 29 we're going to have to monitor it for a couple years 30 and see if we continue to get increases in reports. 31 32 MS. CHERNOFF: Thank you. 33 34 MR. SVOBODA: Sure. Thank you. 35 36 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 39 40 MR. HOLMES: Briefly I hadn't been 41 aware that there had been a mink farm or out at Karluk 42 and I was wondering if that might be -- one of our 43 regular folks that we contact on subsistence is Ronnie 44 Lind at Karluk. And he's been expressing the concern 45 the last couple years of the almost total 46 disappearances of ptarmigan. He kind of feels that it 47 might be a function of eagles, but I'm just wondering 48 if they might have some nasty little predator out there 49 like mink. Because I recall when I was a kid in 50






Page 208

1 Fairbanks they were -- one of the places you could trap 2 them is up where the ptarmigan were at. But could that 3 be a potential part of the problem? 4 5 MR. SVOBODA: That -- through the 6 Chair. Thanks, Pat. Yeah, that -- I mean, that's a 7 possibility. You know, we haven't -- at least to my 8 knowledge, I don't think we've gotten any reports of 9 mink down in Karluk, but that being said there's also

10 not a huge number of people that trap down there. So 11 but if the individual you mentioned or anyone else you 12 mentioned for that matter has any reports or 13 observations of mink in Karluk that would be really 14 valuable information for us to have. 15 16 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, I'll pass that on to 17 him. 18 19 MR. SVOBODA: I appreciate that. Thank 20 you. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 23 24 Any other comments or questions. 25 26 (No comments) 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Hearing none, 29 very good report. Thank you. 30 31 MR. SVOBODA: Thank you. Appreciate 32 it. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think, 35 Council, at this time we do have Jackie Keating online 36 from ADF&G, Division of Subsistence. And I think 37 following that we'll take a 10 break and wrap up the -- 38 what we have left on the agenda. 39 40 Jackie, are you available online? 41 42 MS. KEATING: Yes, I am. Good morning. 43 Can you hear me okay. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: We can hear you 46 loud and clear. Go ahead. 47 48 MS. KEATING: Fantastic. Thank you 49 very much and thanks for the time slot this morning. 50






Page 209

1 Apologies for not being able to be there in person. 2 I'll keep my report super brief. I just want to go 3 over the update that we shared. I believe it's page 36 4 of your program. And I'm just going to highlight a 5 couple updates of ongoing projects that we have in the 6 region. 7 8 The first one is for FRMP project 18- 9 450 in Unalaska. We're going to be kicking that off

10 this summer. We have two researchers that will be 11 heading out in June to conduct a scoping meeting and 12 then will be conducting comprehensive household 13 subsistence surveys out there the following year. 14 15 And then an update on a project that we 16 did this past winter for FRMP 18-451. We spent a few 17 weeks out on the south end of Alaska Island and Old 18 Harbor, Akiak and Larsen Bay conducting household 19 subsistence surveys there. I want to thank all those 20 communities for their (indiscernible - distortion) and 21 being involved in that. We're pretty happy with our 22 response rates. And we'll be returning right around 23 the same time next year, probably February or March to 24 do community scoping meetings on that data. 25 26 And the third item that we wanted to 27 highlight is (indiscernible - distortion) FRMP 2020 28 call for proposals to do comprehensive subsistence 29 surveys on the Kodiak road system that connect the 30 communities there. That would be to respond to the 31 (indiscernible - distortion) subsistence harvest trends 32 of salmon and non-salmon fish. And I'd like to thank 33 the Sun'aq Tribe, Tom and Kelly, as well as the Kodiak 34 Refuge for partnering with us on that proposal and 35 contributing a lot of good ideas. 36 37 And, you know, we'd like to use this 38 opportunity to if any of the Council members have 39 questions or concerns that you'd like to address on 40 that I'm happy to hear those. 41 42 And the last thing I wanted to say 43 that's not on there, at the fall meeting it was 44 suggested that at some point we do a longer 45 presentation talking about our comprehensive surveys 46 and how we conduct them and everything behind the 47 sampling of fish and all the inner workings. And I 48 just wanted to say we haven't forgotten about that. We 49 think it's something that warrants one of us being 50






Page 210

1 there in person to do that. Unfortunately due to 2 (indiscernible - distortion) send anyone, but if 3 there's an opportunity to do that in the future and 4 still interest among the Council then we'd be really 5 happy to put that together. 6 7 So that's all I have, I'll keep it 8 short, but I'm happy to answer any questions. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 11 12 Any comments or questions for Jackie. 13 14 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 17 18 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, Jackie, I noted in 19 your early report there for the south end subsistence 20 surveys you mentioned you're going to be doing a touch 21 pass and scoping and then it looks like the final 22 report will be out sometime in 2020. I would hope that 23 if some significant problems arise that you could kind 24 of wave a little red flag for us before you reach a 25 final or if you have a draft report or something like 26 that, I think that would be of great interest. And 27 same goes with any other surveys. 28 29 So really appreciate you folks working 30 on that. 31 32 Thank you. 33 34 MS. KEATING: Yeah, thanks, Pat, for 35 that comment. And absolutely. And we look forward to 36 returning to the communities next year and of course 37 getting all their feedback before we publish anything. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 40 you, Jackie, appreciate your report. 41 42 We do have David Crowley, ADF&G 43 wildlife biologist, King Salmon. You are online? 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: David, are you 48 online? 49 50






Page 211

1 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 2 This is Zach Stevenson. I've been informed that Mr. 3 Crowley is on the line. The ADF&G biologist from King 4 Salmon. 5 6 Mr. Crowley, if you would like to share 7 your report. 8 9 MR. CROWLEY: Yeah, sure. Thank you.

10 I've been kind of in and out of the meeting so I guess 11 I'm just not sure if you were updated on the status of 12 the caribou herds on the Southern Alaska Peninsula and 13 on Unimak Island. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: We will be happy 16 to hear an update. 17 18 MR. CROWLEY: Okay. Well, first of all 19 for both populations we did get in two surveys last 20 year. We went in the spring and did our parturition 21 survey and in the fall, October, we got in our 22 composition surveys for both populations. And these 23 surveys we've kind of adapted them a little bit. We no 24 longer have State aircraft to join us and so the 25 surveys are certainly more expensive. We use four 26 aircraft for each of these surveys, three fixed wing 27 airplane our R44 helicopter. And the reason we do that 28 is to try to minimize our survey time. Our windows on 29 the peninsula and of course on Unimak Island are so 30 narrow, our survey windows weatherwise. So we gather 31 up our squadron of aircraft and when the weather looks 32 good we just throw our whole budget at one day 33 basically we're trying to get these done. And it's 34 working out pretty well. My pilots have been coming 35 down now for years and they can really read the weather 36 well. And so we've been mostly successful getting 37 these surveys done. 38 39 We had a couple years for the October 40 survey where we just couldn't make it down, but we did 41 last year and I have updates on the herds. Let me 42 shuffle my notes a little bit here. 43 44 So I have some good news for Unimak 45 Island. We got down there in October last fall. We 46 counted a total of 413 caribou which was the highest 47 number we counted since 2007. And definitely the herd 48 is on the increase, it's increasing quite slowly as you 49 could expect for a population that small. But it is 50






Page 212

1 coming up. Our bull to cow ratio increased from 33 2 bulls to 100 cows in 2016 to 80 bulls per 100 cows in 3 2018. Our calves went from 40 in 2016 to 44 in 2018 so 4 not much has changed there. But certainly an 5 improvement over the last decade. We had 45 percent 6 cows in the population, 36 percent bulls. And all 7 these are indication of an increasing population and 8 we're happy to see it. It's not to say that the herd 9 is not out of danger yet with 400 or so animals. You

10 know, a serious volcanic eruption or widespread icing 11 conditions that we've seen in the past could take out 12 most of this herd still. But definitely we're seeing 13 some improvement there. 14 15 And let me move on to the Southern 16 Alaska Peninsula caribou herd. This is data from the 17 fall composition survey. We counted a total of 1,150 18 animals. We had a cow/calf ratio of 42 calves per 100 19 cows. We had a bull/cow ratio of 62 bulls per 100 20 cows. And this population continues to increase. I 21 believe out latest estimate is around 3,000 animals 22 which is our management -- meeting our lower management 23 objective this year. As you know the Board of Game has 24 been increasing harvest at our request on the SAP. 25 We're now up to fairly liberal seasons and a bag limit 26 of two. And I think I heard yesterday that the Refuge 27 is still limiting Federal permits to five per village 28 or five total, I didn't quite catch which. But as far 29 as I'm concerned we're not limiting the number of 30 permits on the State side and that might be something 31 you could consider for the Federal side on the SAP. 32 33 And of course False Pass residents, 34 they hunt caribou on the SAP because there are caribou 35 there to hunt. And I can see this as a further 36 opportunity for False Pass residents if they could get 37 a Federal permit and be designated hunters on the SAP 38 at a higher rate. 39 40 I am no longer opposed to opening or 41 continuing the harvest on the Unimak caribou herd, but 42 I still think we need to approach this cautiously. One 43 problem still with the Unimak herd is our parturition 44 rate is fairly low, the pregnancy rate. We did see a 45 spike a couple years ago up to what we would consider 46 normal for the SAP or the NAP, you know, up 85 percent 47 or so. But typically for Unimak caribou the pregnancy 48 rate is much lower, it's more like 70 percent or 65 49 percent. And we're down there again as of the last 50






Page 213

1 parturition survey. So we don't want to jump into 2 immediately increasing harvest on Unimak Island. I 3 think three bulls is good. I've heard talk of 10 4 bulls. I think you could issue 10 permits, but your 5 harvest will still be two or three because from all the 6 surveys we've done I think I've seen maybe two caribou 7 within proximity of False Pass. You know, there is 8 some boat access, but boat access is much better on the 9 SAP side than the Unimak Island side.

10 11 Anyway I digress. Both populations are 12 doing well. We are not limiting harvest on the SAP, 13 we're trying to encourage harvest because we want to 14 try to get away from this, you know, boom and bust 15 routine that takes decades to occur, these caribou 16 cycles. I don't think that's going to happen on the 17 SAP because it's so remote, local hunters are few, 18 guided hunters are few relatively and it's just really 19 hard to get the harvest we need on the SAP. But we're 20 going to try, we're at two now, bag limit of two, and 21 we're going to continue increasing that as the herd 22 increases. 23 24 But let's approach the Unimak herd with 25 a lot more caution. It is an island herd, yes, there's 26 certainly some movement back and forth, we've seen that 27 with our collared animals from Unimak to the mainland. 28 But we need to approach these island herds that are at 29 -- you know, way at the bottom of the range with kid 30 gloves, you know, we've got to be conservative with 31 them. 32 33 That's all I've got on caribou. 34 35 Are there any questions, Madame Chair. 36 37 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 40 41 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, thanks for your 42 report. I have a question on Unimak. And you 43 mentioned that we're looking like seeing some growth. 44 We were having a discussion earlier wondering on how to 45 address our letter to the Subsistence Board on harvest 46 and regulation changes. And we had three available for 47 harvest this year, got two. Would you think that the 48 increased numbers would warrant allowing a little 49 larger harvest if folks wanted to go around to the 50






Page 214

1 north end of the island to get closer to the caribou, 2 is that possible for a larger harvest. We -- basically 3 you're going to phrase it I think in terms of the -- at 4 the discretion of the Fish and Wildlife Service manager 5 and Fish and Game on the limit..... 6 7 MR. CROWLEY: Uh-huh. 8 9 MR. HOLMES: .....but I was just kind

10 of curious. 11 12 MR. CROWLEY: I think there's probably 13 a little room for that. I would like to see it bulls 14 only whereas on -- of course on the mainland on the 15 south it's any caribou. I think there's room for a 16 little bit of harvest on Unimak Island, but like I say 17 we need to be cautious. I think maybe by the time this 18 worked its way through the process that our population 19 is going to have increased a bit more so a little more 20 safety margin there. So I guess my answer is a 21 tentative yes. 22 23 MR. HOLMES: Thank you. And I had 24 another question on pregnancy rate and calving. And 25 I've heard that in your work there from one of your 26 colleagues that you're -- the -- I don't know whether 27 it's because of the does or low populations, but the 28 does were tending to be in nontraditional areas, up 29 high on the hills and in the brush. Is that the 30 potential complication on your estimates? 31 32 MR. CROWLEY: We do see that during the 33 calving season and I think it's predator related that 34 the caribou instead of being out in the open tundra 35 like you'd expect they find the largest -- and this is 36 on the island, largest alder patches they can and drop 37 their calves or they go way up into the snow and ash 38 and have their calves up there and remain up there for 39 several days, I think until mom gets hungry enough 40 where she has to go down where there's some green. 41 42 I -- we certainly recognize the -- 43 those high cows as a problem on our surveys because 44 usually of course that high country is enveloped in 45 clouds or smoke. And therefore we certainly try to 46 pick our day where we can access at least some of that 47 high country. But we also have cows collared on the 48 island, we maintain a sample of collared cows. And 49 virtually every time we go to the island we pick up all 50






Page 215

1 the -- we pick up all the collars, all the signals. 2 The cow collars have a mortality signal on them so we 3 know if they're alive or dead if we can't see them. 4 But we try to lay eyes on everyone of our collared 5 cows. And if we don't then probably the next survey 6 we'll see them and we'll see if they have a calf or 7 not. We've gotten pretty good at figuring out where 8 they are from one survey to thenext. Yeah, we don't -- 9 we certainly see all the caribou, but our approach is

10 fairly consistent. And I'm pretty comfortable at that 11 number, 400 or so animals. You know, there might be 12 some 10 or 20 others we're not seeing, but we cover the 13 island pretty well and I think it's a good population 14 index. 15 16 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, thank you. I had 17 one other comment or -- actually a comment. It's just 18 unfortunate that Lem Butler's research project on 19 selective removals wasn't allowed on the island there. 20 But then that's probably an irreconcilable point of 21 philosophy. 22 23 But thanks a lot. 24 25 MR. KOSO: Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick. 28 29 MR. CROWLEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 30 31 MR. KOSO: Yeah, thanks for the report 32 there. I just wanted a clarification. You said you 33 counted on 9D, was that 1,150, and you were -- your 34 earmark is for 3,000. Is that what I heard you say? 35 36 MR. CROWLEY: We counted on our last 37 survey 1,100. We had some weather problems on the SAP 38 this last go around, we were rushed. But that was 39 still a good sample and based on some of our other 40 surveys and a population model that I maintain, our 41 population is actually up towards 3,000 which is our 42 lower population objective, management objective. So 43 3,000 or perhaps a few more is my current best guess at 44 population size for the SAP. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Any other 47 comments or questions. 48 49 Tom. 50






Page 216

1 MR. EVANS: Dave, hi, this is Tom 2 Evans. Did you have any updates on any of the wolf 3 populations? 4 5 MR. CROWLEY: I do not. Anecdotally it 6 seems like the wolf populations have been down both on 7 Unimak Island and on the mainland in unit 9D. We 8 actually a couple years ago in 2017 went looking for 9 wolves on the SAP. We had eight collars -- satellite

10 collars we wanted to put out on wolves, we couldn't 11 find one. We used four or five aircraft and searched 12 for a couple days and also kept an eye out while we 13 were doing our caribou surveys, never saw a wolf. I 14 also talked to a local guide who spends a lot of time 15 on the island, it was that same spring of 2017, he had 16 not seen a wolf either. So anecdotally I thinktheir -- 17 the numbers are down and I think that's contributing 18 to the recovery of the Unimak caribou herd. 19 20 MR. EVANS: Thank you. 21 22 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 25 26 MS. SKINNER: Yeah, I just wanted to 27 make sure that -- I'm not sure if you were listening 28 yesterday, but make sure you were aware that the 29 Council approved a request for a special action for the 30 Unimak caribou with the same request we already had, so 31 up to 10 bulls for the 2019 and 2020 hunting seasons. 32 And then we put forward a proposal, so a permanent 33 regulatory change, to allow bull hunting. It would be 34 a one bull limit of the Unimak herd and all of the 35 quotas would be determined by the Izembek Refuge 36 manager depending on the data and information that was 37 available. 38 39 MR. CROWLEY: Yes, thank you, Rebecca. 40 Madame Chair, I did hear that portion of the meeting 41 yesterday. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 44 you. I have a couple of questions maybe. What is the 45 minimum threshold for the herd on Unimak that you would 46 like to see? 47 48 MR. CROWLEY: That's a good question. 49 We actually don't have a formal management objective 50






Page 217

1 set, but I'm in the process of doing that. There's an 2 intensive management objective of a thousand, but it's 3 not a range. What we are contemplating now is a range 4 from 800 to 1,200 animals on the island. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 7 you. And then some of the comments I think you made on 8 the people or False Pass people hunting the 9D and 9 using the subsistence permits. And what I hear from

10 the local people is it's costly for them to take their 11 boats from False Pass to Cold Bay, an area to hunt. 12 And normally if they do it's when they're on the ground 13 somewhere and close enough that they will take 14 advantage of that opportunity. So just kind of 15 throwing that out there. 16 17 But on another note I think I'd like to 18 say that we're -- you know, we're happy to hear that 19 those numbers are going up and really happy to see -- 20 hear some numbers. And if you can email what you have 21 to Zach so that we can -- he can send that information 22 to us, we would also appreciate it. 23 24 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 27 28 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. And the 29 Council has been emailed all of the materials that have 30 been presented this morning. 31 32 Thank you. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And the caribou? 35 36 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, ma'am. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 39 you. Appreciate your report. 40 41 At this time I..... 42 43 MR. CROWLEY: Okay. Thank you, Madame 44 Chair. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. At this 47 time I think we'll take a 10 minute break and then 48 we'll finish up the rest of our meeting. If you don't 49 mind we'll just work through and get her done. 50






Page 218

1 2 MR. HOLMES: Sounds like a plan. 3 4 (Off record) 5 6 (On record) 7 8 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. We'll 9 call our meeting back to order. Before we broke I

10 mentioned that we just had a few minor things left on 11 the agenda. However Rebecca wanted to break for lunch 12 and come back. And I told her that I would ask the 13 consensus of the Council. 14 15 So I guess my question, Rebecca, is 16 what your thoughts are to need that extra time? 17 18 MS. SKINNER: Yeah. As I said there's 19 a few things that I plan on requesting. And this 20 morning we received a lot of information and I'd like 21 to have a little bit more time to formulate my thoughts 22 so that my requests are more clear and concise. And I 23 think having a little bit of time over lunch would be 24 very helpful for me to do that. 25 26 Thanks. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Any comments, 29 Council Members. 30 31 Chris. 32 33 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair, I've got 34 about nine items I've been making notes on. And it 35 might be handy -- I know that you'd like to get us done 36 and out of here, but it might be handy to be able to 37 get in another solid hour and a half or more, probably 38 that at least, because I'd like to kind of -- I kind of 39 have some agreement with Becky. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 MS. CHERNOFF: Madame Chair. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Coral. 46 47 MS. CHERNOFF: I agree also in taking 48 lunch. I expressed that to you as soon as we broke. 49 50






Page 219

1 Just I guess for one I think last time 2 at our last meeting we didn't have lunch and we ended 3 up going quite a bit longer. And as -- although, you 4 know, we may express we might have an hour more, we 5 just never know if that hour can turn into two or three 6 or how it ends up. And then it just allows for 7 everybody to not feel rushed to have comment or think 8 and it does give a little more time. 9

10 Thank you. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Given 13 that I would -- I guess what I would appreciate is it 14 appears some of you have -- Pat's got lists over here 15 and I'm not sure what Rebecca's points that she wanted 16 or Coral for that matter. But if each of you could 17 maybe reference a little bit exactly what you're 18 wanting to focus on so that we can think about it also 19 when we get back because that might save a bit of time. 20 21 I'll start with you, Pat, since you got 22 all your notes laid out. 23 24 MR. HOLMES: Okay. Madame Chair, 25 here's my notes. I just crossed a couple out. We need 26 a letter, I did draft a rough one that I showed you 27 earlier on strongly encouraging placement of staff at 28 Izembek. 29 30 We did have a request from Sun'aq on 31 our giving support and I don't know whether we -- where 32 we would write a letter or how it would go, for a full 33 EIS at the Kodiak rocket launch because of the 34 potential implications of things there on subsistence 35 and fisheries. 36 37 I had down supporting McLeese Lake weir 38 funding, but it sounds like that's going to be decided 39 and they -- I would hope from our previous meetings and 40 our other letters they've gotten the message. 41 42 Number 4 would be a note to the sea 43 otter survey folks of the need to have timely local sea 44 otter surveys near town, the respected villages where 45 the impact's at. And then part of that would also -- 46 anyway that -- I'll stop there. 47 48 And then we -- I think we've got this 49 one covered with Becky's timely abstract on the 50






Page 220

1 regulation proposals and special actions. 2 3 There's one question on there. We were 4 talking about having the -- at the discretion of the 5 Refuge manager. And one would hope we'll have a Refuge 6 manager. So that's a question I don't know how to 7 address. 8 9 And then I think there's a memorandum

10 of agreement, maybe correct me, Bill, or your boss 11 there, I believe there's an MOA between Fish and Game 12 and Fish and Wildlife Service on harvest levels and 13 that you -- they consult anyway so I don't know whether 14 we should beabsolutely at the discretion of,but this -- 15 I guess that is already covered and he would be 16 talking to Fish and Game because it sounds like the 17 Fish and Game folks have some better information than 18 the report we got from the biologist out at Izembek. 19 20 Another thing that was pointed out from 21 some of the tribal folks was a need to -- Ms. Peterson 22 I believe it was, reestablish a co-management agreement 23 on sea otters with the Alaskan tribes. So we need 24 somehow to raise that question. 25 26 Number 8 was a request for information 27 from the sea otter survey folks because they do their 28 nearshore surveys, but to get that by bay, by year, by 29 area because just saying there's 3,000 otters in Kodiak 30 doesn't mean diddley. It might be to them, but not to 31 the local folks. 32 33 Oh, and then I did ask and we did 34 request at our last meeting and maybe Zach could just 35 follow-up on this one, the Marine Mammal folks, we were 36 talking about their breakdowns on districts and why 37 Kodiak was considered an endangered population. But it 38 appeared to me at least that that was a bureaucratic 39 definition based on geography and we asked why and they 40 were going to get back to us and we never heard. So 41 I'd like to hear something back from them. 42 43 And that's it. 44 45 I crossed out three or four other 46 things. 47 48 Thank you, Madame Chair. 49 50






Page 221

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair, a 4 question for member Patrick Holmes or I should say 5 three questions. 6 7 Pat, could you clarify that third 8 point, I missed that when you were going through your 9 items, your third point. Regarding your sixth point

10 addressing the memorandum of understanding between the 11 United States Fish and Wildlife Service and Alaska 12 Department of Fish and Game regarding harvest levels. 13 I was unclear what species you were referring to? 14 15 MR. HOLMES: Yes, through the Chair to 16 Zach. That was in reference to our letter that Becky 17 abstracted for us on our hope that if the populations 18 increase at Unimak Island caribou that they were 19 increase the harvest based on the discretion of the 20 Refuge manager. And so I was wondering if it needed to 21 be clarified, in consultation with the State because 22 I'm pretty sure there is an MOA on harvest levels of 23 critters or if that would just be adequate, at his 24 discretion. And so maybe we can get some feedback. 25 26 Bill, do you have a notion on -- 27 because I know you are always talking with Nate before 28 anything happens on the Refuge as far as harvest 29 levels. Isn't there an understanding between the 30 agencies? 31 32 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris, do you 33 have a question or..... 34 35 MR. McKEE: Yeah, I can help a little 36 bit with this. So with the proposal two things. 37 Whether it's something that's in the unit specific 38 regulation regarding the discussion about determining 39 harvest quotas being the role -- being under the 40 discretion of the Refuge manager or whether it's in a 41 delegation letter. First of all both in the regulation 42 and in the letters, the letters specifically, the 43 delegation letters are addressed to the position, not 44 the person. So if there's somebody acting, the Refuge 45 manager's the Refuge manager. Whether it's somebody 46 actually hired as the manager that's there or is 47 acting, they have the ability to act under that 48 delegated authority. So just because they don't have a 49 actual person in the position of Refuge manager at the 50






Page 222

1 Refuge, if there's an acting that person has the 2 authority to carry out that delegated action. So 3 that's the first thing to remember. 4 5 In delegation letters if it actually 6 ends up going that route there is language in all of 7 the delegation letters that require the Federal 8 managers to consult or inform the State of their 9 actions prior to taking out any actions. And there's

10 also some language in there to let the Chair and the 11 members of the Council know about that as well. 12 13 So that language is in those letters. 14 I'm sorry I don't have a -- I have a delegation letter 15 actually from somewhere else in the State that I could 16 -- if any of you are interested in looking at some of 17 that language off the record I can show it to you, but 18 that language is in those letters. 19 20 So just wanted to make you aware of 21 that. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And to add to 24 that, what you just said, it includes the tribes also? 25 26 MR. McKEE: Correct. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And then was a 29 big discussion last week and it came up another of 30 times and that clarification was made on numerous 31 occasions. 32 33 Thank you, Chris. 34 35 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 38 39 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 40 Chair. Just to respond to member Holmes' question 41 regarding marine mammals management and sea otter 42 populations by district, that issue was addressed in 43 our October, 2018 meeting. And the conversation was 44 summarized in the transcripts which were provided both 45 to this Council and the Steller Sea Lion and Sea Otter 46 Commission via email. And, member Holmes, you were 47 mailed a hard copy of those materials as well. 48 49 I also want to just clarify the third 50






Page 223

1 point -- the third question I didn't catch. I got the 2 first request which was a letter regarding the need for 3 timely recruitment at Izembek, similarly the letters 4 regarding support for the Sun'aq's position regarding 5 the EIS and associated rocket launch. The third point 6 I missed, if I could just get that again, please? 7 8 MR. HOLMES: Kind of out of sequence on 9 my numbers.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. 12 13 MR. HOLMES: We talked about the 14 survey, sea otter survey? 15 16 MR. STEVENSON: Yep. 17 18 MR. HOLMES: The rocket launch. That's 19 taken care of. There was one reestablishment of co- 20 management agreement with the sea otters and Alaskan 21 tribes. 22 23 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 24 25 MR. HOLMES: That was something that 26 was brought out by Ms. Peterson. 27 28 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 29 Chair. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thanks. 32 33 Rebecca. 34 35 MS. SKINNER: Yeah, so my issues are 36 going to relate to the sea otters as well and staffing. 37 And I guess at this point it's already after noon, I'd 38 renew my request that we do take a lunch break and 39 reconvene at 1:30. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: The reason I ask 42 this is because a lot of this does reference the sea 43 otters. And I'm hoping that Zach can contact somebody 44 in the Anchorage office to clarify what role we as a 45 Council have with this. Because I know there is -- the 46 co-management agreements need to come with IPCOM, they 47 need to come with the lady thatwas here that has the -- 48 that does the other one and with the tribes. And the 49 Council can, you know, basically say we encourage this 50






Page 224

1 and maybe Fish and Wildlife can send out a letter 2 encouraging that also. But I don't know that we have 3 anything directly that we can really do. That -- there 4 are other Federal agencies that have to step up to the 5 plate to do that. 6 7 We'll go ahead and break for lunch and 8 be back here at 1:30. 9

10 MS. SKINNER: Thank you. 11 12 (Off record) 13 14 (On record) 15 16 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: All right, 17 everybody. We will reconvene the meeting. 18 19 The next item on the agenda is under 20 OSM, general update. 21 22 MR. McKEE: Thank you, Madam Chair. 23 For the record my name is Chris McKee, I'm the Wildlife 24 Division supervisor at OSM. I have a very quick update 25 for you and it mostly just deals with staffing issues. 26 27 As you know we've been without an 28 assistant regional director for OSM for quite some time 29 after Gene Peltola left his position at OSM to become 30 the regional director for the Bureau of Indian Affairs. 31 We are continuing to be in the hiring process for that 32 so we still do not have anybody formally in that 33 position, but our deputy assistant regional director, 34 Tom Doolittle, has been acting in that role for the 35 last however many -- a year or so since Gene left the 36 position. So still in the hiring process for that one. 37 38 Carl Johnson who was the Council 39 Coordination supervisor at OSM has left Federal service 40 to pursue his own business in the private sector 41 running a photographic ecotourism business. So Carl's 42 no longer with us. We're starting -- we just started 43 going through the waiver process for that position and 44 getting some of that position description properly 45 vetted through HR and so we're kind of still at the 46 beginning of that process. 47 48 We did hire a new staff anthropologist, 49 Hannah Voorhees. She was born and raised in Eagle 50






Page 225

1 River and completed her Ph.D. in cultural anthropology 2 at the University of Pennsylvania where she maintained 3 a focus on subsistence and conservation issues in 4 Alaska. She's also worked with Alaska Native 5 organizations to fulfill their co-management roles and 6 has combined traditional knowledge research with 7 communities in the Seward Peninsula and North Slope 8 regions. So we're really, really happy to have her 9 onboard, kind of backfilling for a vacancy that had

10 been there in the Anthropology Division for quite some 11 time too. 12 13 And continuing with the theme of 14 vacancies at OSM, we still do not have a Anthropology 15 Division supervisor, we still have a couple of 16 fisheries biologist positions that we want to hire, two 17 administrative office -- administrative assistant 18 positions that are still vacant and of course as I 19 mentioned before the Council Coordination supervisor. 20 21 So all of those positions that are 22 currently vacant are in varying degrees of getting 23 through the hiring process, either getting the hiring 24 waiver signed off on or getting the position 25 description properly filled out in some of our hiring 26 data bases. So it's not a quick process, but we're 27 pretty aggressively pursuing getting as many of those 28 positions filled as quickly as we can. And as soon as 29 we get people hired on we'll let all the Councils know 30 about that. 31 32 So and you've heard a lot of talk about 33 the shut down and that's obviously affected a lot of 34 things that we dealt with which is one of the reasons 35 why this Council is meeting so late in the year and 36 after the Federal Subsistence Board meeting. But along 37 with that we were lucky enough to get out the proposed 38 rule for wildlife, the call for wildlife proposals out 39 in January before the shut down so at least that call 40 went out on time. And we're -- you know, this meeting 41 and then the Seward Pen meeting is -- are the last 42 Council meetings and that'll be the end of the initial 43 Council member process during the call for wildlife 44 proposals and then we'll be -- I'll be having my staff 45 in the Anthropology Division start working on all the 46 proposals we get. So we're going to start working hard 47 at that and seeing all the Councils back in the fall to 48 kind of address the proposals that are germane to their 49 region. 50






Page 226

1 So that's all I have as an update. 2 3 I'd be happy to field any questions, if 4 I can answer anything I'd be glad to do so. 5 6 Thank you, Madame Chair. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 9 Chris.

10 11 Any questions for Chris. 12 13 (No comments) 14 15 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. I 16 hope we get the positions filled. 17 18 Next item, Fisheries Program updates. 19 Josh. 20 21 DR. REAM: Good afternoon, Madame Chair 22 and members of the Council. I just wanted to take a 23 moment before I go into these updates to introduce 24 myself since I haven't been at your Council previously. 25 My name is Joshua Ream and my Councils that I'm 26 assigned to are generally the North Slope, the 27 Northwest Arctic and the Seward Peninsula. I also work 28 with Pippa Kenner for Southeast Alaska. But due to 29 some issues with the furlough and scheduling I got the 30 privilege of coming to Kodiak and meeting with you. 31 32 So thank you for having me here. The 33 last time I was in Kodiak was in 2005. I did some 34 seabird work with the university over here from the 35 Near Island facility working with tufted puffins and 36 black-leg kittiwake and mew gulls and a variety of 37 other species. I do have a professional and academic 38 background in wildlife biology, but I did my Ph.D. at 39 UAF recently in ethnobiology. So I am also very 40 interested in culture and I'm working currently as a 41 cultural anthropologist with OSM. 42 43 I told you my English name, I also go 44 by (in Native) which I was honored to have been adopted 45 into the (in Native) clan of the Stikine Tlingit out of 46 Wrangell. I worked very closely with them for my 47 doctoral work. My dog also bears the name of your 48 island here. So thank you for allowing me to use the 49 name. 50






Page 227

1 So this is just a brief update for the 2 three programmatic areas including the Fisheries 3 Resource Monitoring Program, the Partners for Fisheries 4 Monitoring and the Fisheries Regulatory Cycle. There's 5 no action items here associated with these programs 6 today. And please feel free to ask any questions and 7 I'll do my best to answer them. 8 9 Starting with the Fisheries Regulatory

10 Cycle. The Federal Subsistence Board took action on 11 the current regulatory cycle proposals during their 12 April, 2019 public regulatory meeting. The delayed 13 action on these proposals means that revised 14 regulations will not be in place for the standard April 15 1st start date for new regulations. In addition there 16 is some concern for publication of the Board's changes 17 in the Federal Register. As such the Board implemented 18 a system of temporary special actions to cover approved 19 changes to the Fisheries regulations. These special 20 actions mirror the Board approved changes and expire 21 upon publication of the final regulations in the 22 Federal Register. 23 24 Now I didn't include a summary of the 25 Board's actions because none of the proposals affected 26 your region, but I did ask for Zach to send out the 27 news release that includes that summary. So you all 28 should have that in your email. 29 30 Are there any questions on the 31 regulatory cycle? 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Questions. 34 35 (No comments) 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 38 39 DR. REAM: Okay. The second program is 40 the Partners for Fisheries Monitoring update. The 41 Office of Subsistence Management recently closed the 42 notice of funding opportunity for the Partners for 43 Fisheries Program for the 2020-2023 cycle. The 44 Partners Program seeks to strengthen Alaska Native and 45 rural involvement in Federal subsistence management by 46 providing funding for a biologist, a social scientist 47 or an educator in Alaska Native and rural nonprofit 48 organizations with the intent of increasing the 49 organization's ability to participate in Federal 50






Page 228

1 subsistence management. 2 3 A total of 14 proposals were received 4 from prospective partners. The Review Committee has 5 met to evaluate the proposals and the notification 6 letters will be sent out very soon. I think you can 7 expect those in the next few weeks. There are some 8 questions about the exact amount that these programs 9 will be funded so they're working with the public to

10 try to include or to award the most number of Partners 11 as possible. 12 13 And that concludes the Partners update. 14 15 Are there any questions? 16 17 (No comments) 18 19 DR. REAM: Thank you. The third update 20 is the FRMP, the Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program. 21 The 2020 notice of funding opportunity closed on March 22 15, 2019. We sought proposals for projects that 23 gathered information to manage and conserve subsistence 24 fishery resources in Federal waters in Alaska. The 25 Monitoring Program is also directed at supporting 26 meaningful involvement in fisheries management by 27 Alaska Native and rural organizations and promoting 28 collaboration among Federal, State, Alaska Native and 29 local organizations. 30 31 For the 2020 funding cycle it is 32 anticipated there will be approximately $1.5 million 33 available for the first year of new projects. Anyone 34 wanting to apply in future cycles can find information 35 about the program on the Federal subsistence management 36 website. They could also contact any of our staff. I 37 get a lot of those requests as does Karen Hyer who 38 helps manage some of these programs in the Fisheries 39 Department. 40 41 The next step of the process is to 42 review the proposals by the Technical Review Committee. 43 The results of the review will be presented to you at 44 the fall, 2019 Regional Advisory Council meeting. The 45 assistants to the TRC, the staff of OSM, signed 46 confidentiality agreements that we're beholding to, but 47 I know at this meeting a couple of the proponents for 48 the FRMP had already spoken and you're aware of those 49 projects having been submitted. I was advised that if 50






Page 229

1 you want to submit a letter of support at this time 2 because the meeting was delayed you're welcome to do 3 that for projects that you know are in the water. 4 Otherwise I'm also happy to take back any comments 5 regarding support for those programs to make sure that 6 they're shared with the Technical Review Committee. 7 8 I do want to point out that these 9 proposals reflect the priority information needs that

10 are developed by the Councils, but they will be 11 evaluated based on five criteria. Those include 12 strategic priority, technical and scientific merit, the 13 investigator's ability and resources, partnership and 14 capacity building and the cost/benefit analysis. 15 16 So in total the program received 28 17 proposals this cycle. They're currently going through 18 the initial phases of review and two of those proposals 19 are from your region. 20 21 Are there any questions? 22 23 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 24 25 DR. REAM: Yes, sir. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 28 29 MR. HOLMES: From our region. Our 30 region also includes Bristol Bay, does it not or do you 31 mean KRAC? 32 33 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. I was 34 only speaking of about the Kodiak/Aleutians Regional 35 Advisory Council boundaries. 36 37 MR. PRICE: Madame Chair. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris. 40 41 MR. PRICE: On the FRMP grant kind of 42 the purpose of the grant. Just to back up, is Alaska 43 the only place where there's an Office of Subsistence 44 Management program nationally? 45 46 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. Yes, 47 that is correct. 48 49 MR. PRICE: Okay. 50






Page 230

1 DR. REAM: We implement ANILCA. 2 3 MR. PRICE: Okay. So it's just Alaska 4 only. So are other -- because I sense that the State 5 of Alaska, their demands for this kind of funding will 6 be going up not down over time. And is there any -- do 7 you guys -- how do you weigh like the importance of the 8 State being able to manage the resource and also tribal 9 and Native interests that are trying to access the

10 funding as well? It seems like it would be a tough 11 balance, but it seems like the State has a lot more 12 resources to be able to put towards these type of 13 projects. And I wouldn't want the State to just be 14 thinking, hey, if we can save money by getting these 15 grants we'll -- you know, that's -- you know, I don't 16 know how that stuff works, but it seems like the tribal 17 organizations need to have the highest priority in 18 terms of being able to access the funding in my 19 personal opinion. Just curious what you guys talk 20 about internally on that stuff. 21 22 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. There 23 might be somebody on the phone that can more accurately 24 address that question. I do know that there's a lot of 25 conversation about the origins of the program and what 26 was originally intended by funding it through Congress 27 and capacity building is a large component. And so we 28 like to see partnerships that help to develop the 29 capacity of Alaska Native and rural organizations to 30 conduct this type of research on their own or in 31 partnership with the State and other entities. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Does that answer 34 your question? 35 36 (No comments) 37 38 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead. 41 42 MS. SKINNER: My question might be a 43 little more general. I'm looking at the Regional 44 Advisory Council's operation's manual and the FRMP 45 section. And on page 60 there's a section that talks 46 about the Fisheries Resource Monitoring Plan. And I 47 wondered if you could explain more about what that plan 48 is because it says that the Regional Councils review 49 and -- they do review the plan. I don't remember 50






Page 231

1 reviewing something that was called a Fisheries 2 Resource Monitoring Plan. So I'm trying to figure out 3 if that's any different than the list of projects that 4 are proposed for funding. 5 6 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. The 7 Monitoring Plan is comprised of all of the FRMP awards 8 in a given year. And so once those are decided upon 9 they'll just be compiled into a single document that is

10 the Monitoring Plan for OSM. 11 12 MR. PRICE: Madame Chair. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris, go ahead. 15 16 MR. PRICE: Is Southeast Alaska not 17 included in the Partners Program? 18 19 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. 20 Southeast Alaska organizations are eligible and we did 21 receive some applications from entities in Southeast 22 this cycle. 23 24 MR. PRICE: In the past have they not 25 been or I just -- I heard that they weren't really 26 involved with Partners in the past. 27 28 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. We have 29 received applications from Southeast in the past, but 30 they weren't competitive enough to be awarded. 31 32 MR. PRICE: Okay. Thank you. 33 34 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 37 38 MR. HOLMES: One thing I'd like to 39 express our appreciation on as being we are split with 40 Bristol Bay, was our ability to talk with 41 representatives from the Bristol Bay Council, Molly 42 Chythlook and Dan Dunaway. And I think having that 43 interaction and discussion I think helped both our 44 areas within that funding region to kind of understand 45 each other and discuss mutual priorities as well as 46 ones that are more specific for our individual areas. 47 So I hope that we can continue to do that and have that 48 dialogue because prior to that everything got tossed 49 into one pocket and whoever's hand got in there first 50






Page 232

1 seemed to be getting the grants. 2 3 And it shouldn't necessarily be -- I 4 don't know, some of the things I'm sure we will 5 continue to disagree on because supposedly your Review 6 Committee deals with technical merit and all those 7 other -- the four or five other criteria you mentioned. 8 But, you know, it's the needs and I can recall when the 9 Councils had a representative on that evaluation

10 committee. And so when we know -- when things happened 11 and then things that are priorities for our region like 12 McLeese Lake on the last round of things, it got 13 dropped. All the gossip we heard really just made us 14 much more irritated on that judgment process. And so I 15 wish that you could think about some way where we could 16 get some feedback on when those things don't go 17 through, what's amuck and so that those folks can put 18 together a better proposal. We've gotten advice in the 19 past that for people doing proposals is to just send it 20 in early and all the letters I wrote was send it in 21 early so that we can go and recheck and you can ask and 22 say gee, if this -- what can we do to improve this. 23 And I think that's a really important thing for people 24 that are applying to know and I think the important 25 thing for Councils to know is when something doesn't 26 happen, why. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. I just 31 wanted to respond to that briefly. For this cycle of 32 the Partners Program, myself and Karen Hyer did offer 33 for two months I believe a weekly teleconference where 34 we worked with groups to try to answer questions about 35 how they can improve their applications. We also 36 offered to do a preliminary review of the applications 37 for Partners. And only a couple of the applicants took 38 advantage of that unfortunately. But I'm hoping that 39 that's something we can continue to do in future cycles 40 and myself personally and I believe Karen Hyer as well 41 and her staff are willing to answer questions one on 42 one and to review draft proposals ahead of time if 43 people would like that to be done. So in the next 44 cycle I would encourage people to reach out to staff at 45 OSM for those purposes. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 48 49 MR. PRICE: Madame Chair. 50






Page 233

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris. 2 3 MR. PRICE: One last question. I know 4 Congress approves funding, but who is advocating for 5 this funding like it appears that it might be too low. 6 So who would be within the agency saying, hey, we need 7 to look at raising the levels or even lower them or 8 whatever, who does that within the agency? 9

10 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. 11 Respectfully I do not know the answer to that question, 12 but there may be somebody in the room or on the phone 13 that days. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think -- isn't 16 that funding basically appropriated to the program as a 17 whole and how they break it out for the different 18 pieces of it is what happens. And I know that over the 19 past five years that funding continues to be cut. 20 21 Does that answer your question? 22 23 MR. PRICE: Yes. 24 25 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 28 29 MS. SKINNER: So with the FRMP funding 30 I understand that it's broken up regionally and then 31 within a region it's kind of divided out between like 32 the anthropology projects versus the biology projects. 33 And my sense was that the year that McLeese didn't get 34 funded was a year when there were I think maybe a lot 35 of biologically prioritized projects. So my question 36 is there -- how much flexibility is there in the 37 division between funding for anthropology based 38 projects versus funding for the biology based projects 39 and if there is flexibility how can the Council best 40 weigh in when there's a project like McLeese that I 41 think for us was very, very, very high priority and 42 probably maybe wasn't our number 1 priority, but was, 43 you know, very, very high on our list. How can we best 44 weigh in on that? 45 46 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. There is 47 no allocation between what we call the SST and HMTEK 48 projects, the stock status and trends and the harvest 49 monitoring and traditional ecological knowledge. The 50






Page 234

1 Technical Review Committee that reviews all these 2 applications is made up of a good balance of social and 3 natural scientists which is nice to have those 4 perspectives. 5 6 You know, we get the same sort of 7 questions and concerns from many of our Councils 8 because one of the places that you have the most 9 influence over the process is in the development of

10 those priority information needs. But just because you 11 develop a priority information need doesn't mean that 12 we're going to get any projects related to it and if we 13 do it doesn't mean that it's necessarily going to be 14 competitive with the other applications that are out 15 there. So I would work closely with any entities that 16 you know are probably going to be applying, encourage 17 them to be in contact with OSM as frequently as 18 possible when they're developing their drafts of the 19 proposal and to make sure that they're actually 20 addressing the needs that you want to see come from 21 those projects. And make sure that you pay very close 22 attention to the development of those PINS, the 23 priority information needs to make sure that you would 24 be receiving the type of information that you need for 25 your management purposes. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Josh. 28 And this is also in our report, out annual report. And 29 I did bring it up as part of the report for the 30 Kodiak/Aleutians last week. And I think if I recall 31 there was another region that also had the exact same 32 concern that was brought up. So I think, you know, we 33 just got to keep on this and try to figure out a 34 solution because this was as expressed really, McLeese 35 Lake was very important. 36 37 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 40 41 MR. HOLMES: I hope that you can make 42 the applicants aware, you know, when you're announcing 43 projects or whenever they're doing solicitation of 44 their concepts, a clear definition of what the 45 competitive criteria were. In my discussions with 46 Bristol Bay folks they had an application in for a very 47 important fisheries related thing and I -- this is all 48 scuttlebutt, and then they had gotten the 49 interpretation that it would be good to have multiple 50






Page 235

1 participants, but the gossip that I heard from them 2 that they heard from somebody else was that there were 3 too many players in the game and it was thrown out. 4 And so they had tried to address what they had before 5 and what they thought would make it a more competitive 6 criteria and so then they got four players instead of 7 one being project leaders or something and then it got 8 popped in the dust bin. And so, you know, there's 9 considerable frustration at the Council level, you

10 know, and our thing with McLeese Lake and other areas. 11 And so I think that that would help your process 12 considerably so that all the applicants really 13 understand what the competitive criteria are. And I 14 won't go back over my having a civilian on the 15 Committee again, but I anyway I think most of the RACs 16 I've talked to have similar feelings. 17 18 Thank you. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 21 22 Any other questions or comments. 23 24 (No comments) 25 26 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: So maybe just a 27 thought, Josh, because a couple of the answers were, 28 you know, if somebody else can answer some of these 29 questions that might have more knowledge, maybe you can 30 find out some of that information and email it to Zach 31 and he can get it to us. 32 33 Appreciate it. 34 35 DR. REAM: I would be happy to. Thank 36 you. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach, go ahead. 43 44 MR. STEVENSON: Just a brief 45 housekeeping item very quickly. We had item C under 46 the OSM report featured at the bottom of page 2 in your 47 meeting book under the agenda, review of statewide 48 finfish fisheries proposals addressed earlier by Mr. 49 George Pappas, State subsistence liaison with the 50






Page 236

1 Federal Office of Subsistence Management. 2 3 Thank you, Madame Chair. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Thank 6 you, Zach. So what we're going to do now is move back 7 up to number 10 and for the last time we'll do the call 8 for Federal wildlife proposals. And we've done the 9 caribou.

10 11 MR. EVANS: Thank you, Madame Chair, 12 members of the Council. My name's Tom Evans and I work 13 as a wildlife biologist for the Southcentral area, the 14 North Slope and the Kodiak Aleutians. I'll be brief in 15 my comments, we've already dealt with a couple 16 proposals already, but maybe for the new people I'll 17 give a brief summary of how the proposal process works 18 and then we'll go from there. 19 20 So every two years we submit proposals, 21 our proposals are good for two years, to make changes 22 in the Federal management regulations for the harvest 23 of fish and wildlife on Federal public lands. These 24 proposals include changes to season dates, harvest 25 limits, harvest restrictions such as age and sex of the 26 animals harvested, methods and means of harvest and 27 customary and traditional use determinations. Normally 28 we present -- the call for proposals normally occurs 29 between like mid January to mid -- to the end of March. 30 This year we did get the proposals out -- call for 31 proposals out pretty much on time. We did have the 32 hiccup with the lapse in funding so we're accepting 33 proposals later for this Council. We'd have to accept 34 proposals pretty much today for any proposals coming 35 from this Council. 36 37 Federal public lands are -- consist of 38 National Wildlife Refuges, National Parks and Monuments 39 and Preserves, National Forest, National Wild and 40 Scenic Rivers, Bureau of Land Management areas that are 41 not part of the Natural Conservation Service. They do 42 not apply to the State of Alaska lands, private lands, 43 military lands, Native allotments or selected Federal 44 lands by State or Native corporations. Councils as you 45 know can work with OSM staff to develop these proposals 46 and we're always willing to help you develop these 47 proposals, you know, if you get the idea out and it 48 gets approved by the Council we can work on them later. 49 50






Page 237

1 So typically in the proposal you 2 include your name and organization, the regulation that 3 you wish to change, the regulation as you would like to 4 see it -- as it's written and in the past we've asked 5 for an explanation as to why you want the regulatory 6 change and perhaps some of the impact it would have to 7 the resource in question or the subsistence users. 8 Proposals can be submitted by mail or hand delivery to 9 OSM office. They can be submitted at any Regional

10 Advisory Council meeting which is going on and they 11 also can be submitted via the web through the Federal 12 rulemaking portal. Obviously we're late in the process 13 so the only way we could submit some are actually 14 through the Council right here. 15 16 And that's pretty much all I have so if 17 you have any questions I'd be glad to entertain some. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Questions. 20 21 (No comments) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Tom. 24 Next item on the agenda is Council charter review and I 25 think -- isn't that Tom also? 26 27 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 30 31 MR. STEVENSON: That would be me, 32 Madame Chair. And this is Zach Stevenson with the 33 Federal Office of Subsistence Management. For members 34 of the Council and those on our teleconference, the 35 Council charter is featured on page 40 of your meeting 36 book. And I'll give the Council just a minute to turn 37 to page 40 in their meeting books. While doing so I'll 38 just orient the Council briefly to what the charter is 39 and then provide the Council with some standardized 40 language that addresses the review of the charter. 41 42 The charter is the document featured on 43 page 40 to the end of your meeting books. And 44 basically the charter addresses the rules and operation 45 that govern how this Council and other Councils 46 throughout the State operate. And speaking generally 47 it addresses the Committee's official designation; 48 authority; scope and objectives; description of duties; 49 the agency or official to whom the Council reports; 50






Page 238

1 support for those activities; estimated annual 2 operating costs and staff years; designated Federal 3 officer, that would be me; the estimated number and 4 frequency of meetings; the duration; termination; 5 membership and designation; ethics and responsibilities 6 of members; subcommittees; and recordkeeping. Again 7 the charter helps to outline those operating rules and 8 procedures. 9

10 Now briefly I have some standardized 11 language that I've been reading at my Council meetings 12 this spring which is for the Council's consideration. 13 Specifically under the Federal Advisory Committee Act 14 the Council, you, have a charter that's renewed every 15 two years. So the year before it renews we just have a 16 discussion to see if there's anything you, the Council, 17 want to change. Now most, I'd say that 95 percent of 18 what's in your charter is actually required by the 19 Federal Advisory Committee Act and it's implementing 20 policy so you can't change that language. But you can 21 make changes to the name of your Council, the number of 22 members on your Council because all of the Councils 23 originally started with 10 members and three of them, 24 three of the Councils have changed now to 13 members to 25 reflect their regions better. 26 27 You can also modify -- what you can 28 also modify is membership balance, specifically what 29 kind of balance you will have serving on your Council 30 to represent your region well, and all of the Councils 31 have one. Their provision is to have 70 percent of the 32 people on the Council represent subsistence users and 33 30 percent represent commercial and sport users. One 34 region, that is ours, the Kodiak/Aleutians Council has 35 added actually a geographic membership balance to 36 indicate that their goal is to have four Council 37 members from the Kodiak archipelago, three from the 38 Alaska Peninsula and three from the Aleutian Pribilof 39 Islands. Because that region is so spread out the 40 Council wanted to state that having broader geographic 41 representation is a value for them. 42 43 So those are essentially the key 44 provisions that you can make changes to. So if you're 45 happy with everything as it is then we can go ahead 46 with what we have in place, otherwise now is the time 47 for the Council to recommend any changes as specified. 48 49 Thank you, Madame Chair. 50






Page 239

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Zach. 2 3 Are there any recommended changes? 4 5 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. Oh, go 8 ahead, Rebecca. 9

10 MS. SKINNER: So mine isn't a 11 recommended change, it is a request for more 12 information from Zach to be provided at a later date. 13 I think at a prior meeting we had asked if we could get 14 a summary so no names or specific identifying 15 information, but a list of where applicants have come 16 from in the past. So how many applicants came -- and 17 in each year came from the Peninsula, how many came 18 from the Aleutians, et cetera. And then corresponding 19 to those years some indication of where the appointed 20 person is from. So that would tell us, you know, if 21 there are no applicants from the Aleutians and nobody 22 got appointed that makes sense because nobody applied 23 from the Aleutians. At this point I don't have any 24 information about the other regions. So having that 25 kind of an information summary I think would be very 26 useful if we're going to talk about the geographic 27 representation of this Council. And I know in the past 28 it's been a concern that we didn't have representation 29 from certain areas, but it's not clear to me if we even 30 have applicants from those areas or not. So that's 31 what I'm trying to get at with this information 32 request. 33 34 Thanks. 35 36 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 39 40 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 41 can provide that to the Council at this meeting, I'll 42 need approximately 10 minutes to retrieve that 43 information, but I do have it available. 44 45 Thank you, Madame Chair. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 48 49 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 50






Page 240

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 2 3 MR. HOLMES: Oh, I'd just like to add a 4 little to Becky's discussion in that, you know, in the 5 early part of the Council, at least when I started I 6 don't know, 20 years ago or whatever, sometimes we 7 didn't have representatives from all of the sub areas 8 of our region. But we did have folks and would look 9 for folks on the Council that had experience over those

10 broad areas. And so one example would have been Tom 11 Schwantes and because in his work and fish and wildlife 12 protection for the State, he worked, you know, 13 everywhere from Cook Inlet which is not in our region, 14 Kodiak, Alaska Peninsula, Chignik, Aleutians, Pribilofs 15 and up to Nome and so he had a broad spectrum of 16 distribution in which he knew and dealt with people. 17 And that's what I always put in my application, I can't 18 remember names, but I can bang my head a few times and 19 come up with somebody that I know or having worked and 20 lived in almost all the communities. And so sometimes 21 you need to have a little bit of flexibility in that 22 representation and then particularly when you don't end 23 up with applicants for several years like from the 24 Pribilofs. And we've had -- I recall what, Richard, 25 yeah he was a really outspoken person until he had to 26 resign. And so, you know, there needs to be a little 27 bit of flexibility in here beyond just pure geographic 28 distribution. But I think what we have in our criteria 29 is fairly well represented. 30 31 Madame Chair. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Pat. 34 I think if you look at the way this makeup is right 35 now, you have Chris, Antone and Rick are basically 36 representing more of the Western Aleutians. And I 37 think I'm the only one from the Peninsula at this 38 point. I think in looking at trying to look at the 39 makeup of this is -- you know, is trying to determine 40 whose seats are up and which part of the region you're 41 representing and trying to get people -- either you're 42 reapplying or get people from that portion of the 43 region to apply. 44 45 And the other question I have is when 46 the determinations are being made in Washington, D.C. 47 are they taking into account what our charter is? 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 50






Page 241

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 4 Chair. If I may I'd like to first address the question 5 raised by member Rebecca Skinner. 6 7 My tally that I was provided by our 8 previous Council Coordination Division supervisor, Carl 9 Johnson, indicated that there were two applicants who

10 applied for the 2019 call for nominations and 11 applications to serve on the Council. And without 12 specifying the names of those applicants, one of them 13 applied from the Pribilofs and the other applied from 14 Kodiak. 15 16 To your second question about whether 17 or not the Department of the Interior, specifically the 18 Secretary of the Interior, Secretary of Agriculture 19 consider the Council's charter. That's a question 20 above my pay grade, I can't answer that on my own. 21 It's not to say we can't answer that question, I just 22 don't have access to that information. I can certainly 23 look into that for the Council. I do know that for an 24 individual that may not be reappointed, that individual 25 has the discretion to request that the Department of 26 the Interior provide information to them which I myself 27 don't have access to. That's kept confidential, but 28 the individual may request the Department of Interior 29 provide a justification as to why they may or may not 30 be reappointed. 31 32 Thank you, Madame Chair. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Zach. 35 36 Any other questions or comments. 37 38 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 41 42 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair, I was 43 wondering and this will be really a question for the 44 whole team here because I know we've got some really 45 outstanding members from Kodiak. And that kind of is a 46 little over -- we've got one, two, three, four, five, 47 we have five now from Kodiak instead of..... 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And Sam. 50






Page 242

1 2 MR. HOLMES: Sam. Six. And but, you 3 know, I know Sam came on and Becky to represent the 4 commercial side of things. And but maybe if we were 5 allowed to have 13 members maybe we should think about 6 hustling up or specifying that we have -- it says three 7 members who reside in Alaska Peninsula, maybe we should 8 add two more so that we could maybe get some folks like 9 Pete DeVine from Sand Point or maybe Tom Hoblet from

10 False Pass if we needed to have -- you know, there's a 11 geographic representation and then there's a population 12 representation. So, you know, if we feel we need to 13 expand the geographic representation then maybe we 14 should consider adding another member or two. 15 16 That's a question for you. 17 18 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 21 22 MS. SKINNER: So a question for Zach 23 and then I'll have a follow-up comment for Pat's 24 question. 25 26 On the applicant information, I was 27 actually looking at maybe getting it to your -- 10 28 years back or five years back or seven years back, 29 that's why I said it might not be available today. Is 30 that something that you have access to and could put 31 together for us over -- I mean, it doesn't need to be 32 today obviously. 33 34 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 35 would be more than happy to dig deeper and see if we 36 can go back over the past decade to provide more detail 37 for this Council. 38 39 MS. SKINNER: Okay. That would be 40 helpful. And then my comment on Pat's question, I 41 guess I'll go back again. I feel like we don't 42 necessarily have enough information in front of us to 43 get too far down talking about changing the makeup of 44 the Council right now because my biggest question is 45 how many applicants have we had from the Peninsula. So 46 if we expand our membership to 13, but literally Della 47 is the only one applying and I don't know if that's 48 true or not, but let's assume it is, then designating 49 more seats for the Peninsula won't help because the 50






Page 243

1 problem isn't the number of seats available, the 2 problem is that we're just not getting applicants. And 3 right now I don't have any information to know if 4 that's true or not. So if we're not getting applicants 5 that may be an opportunity for the Council and OSM to 6 bump up outreach and advertising efforts or, you know, 7 word of mouth, calling people, that kind of thing. But 8 again right now I just don't have the information to 9 know the nature of the problem.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 12 Rebecca. I am aware of someone that did apply from 13 Cold Bay for the 2019. 14 15 And just kind of going back to what Pat 16 was saying is if someone like Peter would apply from 17 Sand Point or Tommy from False Pass, if people are 18 applying from the Peninsula then they should have a 19 little more priority for a -- just so we get the 20 balance I guess instead of increasing the number of 21 people that are on the Council. That would -- that's 22 kind of where I was going with it, the way this is set 23 up. 24 25 MR. PRICE: Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris. 28 29 MR. PRICE: Yeah, I heard from folks 30 from the Pribilofs last year that there was some 31 interest. It sounded like someone put in an 32 application from the Pribilofs. So I'd like to make 33 sure they get considered. 34 35 And then this on part seven here on our 36 charter it says operating costs, 175,000 a year. So 37 will -- if we add new members does that -- does our 38 budget stay the same or is it going to go up or does it 39 -- do you know how that works? I assume it doesn't go 40 up. 41 42 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 45 46 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair 47 addressing the question from member Christopher Price. 48 I don't have an answer to that question at the moment, 49 but I could certainly look into that deeper and provide 50






Page 244

1 some follow-up for the Council through member Price. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. I 4 think, Chris, it's going to be tough because they keep 5 cutting the budget. And then we keep asking to have 6 our meetings in outlying rural areas because -- so we 7 can get more people to participate. Ironically this 8 actually came up at the statewide meeting, them asking 9 to have the statewide meetings in some of the more

10 rural areas so more people can participate. So it's 11 not the only one requesting at least now. 12 13 MS. CHERNOFF: Madame Chair. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Coral. 16 17 MS. CHERNOFF: So I have two questions, 18 both for Zach. 19 20 So, Zach, can you clarify again, I 21 heard you say there was two applicants in 2019, one 22 from Kodiak, one from the Pribilofs and then I heard 23 Della say that she knew of someone from 2019 that had 24 applied. So I just want to confirm what's the actual 25 number in my notes. 26 27 And then the second question, I was 28 just wondering if you could go back to Della's question 29 about when they're reviewing applicants are they 30 looking at our charter to see what is our requested 31 makeup. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach, go ahead. 34 35 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 36 Addressing the first question that was raised by member 37 Coral Chernoff. There were two individuals, two people 38 that applied during the 2019, that is this year's call 39 for nominations and applications to serve in this case 40 on the Kodiak/Aleutians Subsistence Regional Advisory 41 Council. 42 43 Thank you, Madame Chair. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Then 46 maybe she applied when I applied. That doesn't sound 47 right. She did tell me she applied so..... 48 49 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. 50






Page 245

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: .....I will 2 follow-up with her when I get to Cold Bay to make sure 3 her application is in. 4 5 MR. STEVENSON: Pardon me, through the 6 Chair..... 7 8 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. Oh, go 9 ahead, Zach.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: .....if I may. Thank 12 you, Madame Chair. And I will double check that 13 number. 14 15 The tally that I was provided was from 16 late this winter prior to the departure of my previous 17 boss, then Council Coordination supervisor, Carl 18 Johnson, and those numbers may have changed. But I 19 will certainly double check those numbers to see if 20 they may have changed since that report was provided to 21 me. 22 23 Thank you, Madame Chair. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: That's probably 26 the case. Thank you. 27 28 Natasha. 29 30 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. 31 I just was going to comment that the application 32 submitted -- that I submitted for this year appointment 33 I had submitted by February of 2018. So more than a 34 year ago is when that was done, right? 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Yeah. 37 38 MS. HAYDEN: And then they had had the 39 call for proposals out before they made the 40 announcements this year. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: That's correct. 43 Because I reapplied for my seat at the same time. I 44 wasn't sure if I'd even made it. So anyway that's..... 45 46 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach, go ahead. 49 50






Page 246

1 MR. STEVENSON: My apologies. I know 2 that you had raised two questions, I -- again my 3 apologies. I forgot that second question that you had 4 asked. I just wanted to make sure I answered both your 5 questions. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: We're good. 8 9 MS. CHERNOFF: No.

10 11 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Oh, go ahead 12 now. 13 14 Coral. 15 16 MS. CHERNOFF: The second question that 17 I don't think I heard answered yet was that when 18 they're reviewing the applicants and -- for a seat are 19 they reviewing our charter to see what our wishes are 20 for the makeup of our Council? 21 22 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 25 26 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 27 Thank you for that clarification, Coral. Yes, the 28 Nominations Panel process happens in the springtime 29 every year and we're just about to do that Nominations 30 Review Panel this spring. And the Nominations Panel is 31 aware of the wishes of the Council with respect to 32 their charter. And this issue came up at our fall 33 meeting. Without rehashing that issue in its entirety 34 I'll just provide a brief summary for the Council's 35 refreshment. 36 37 At our fall meeting there was 38 discussion about how this Council had and I believe it 39 was Pat Petrivelli on behalf of BIA who had explained 40 to the Council that the Council had sought to as a 41 goal, as an aspiration, to try to get better geographic 42 representation from the region. And of course the 43 limitation to reaching that goal is of course who 44 applies. And there is a competitive process where 45 those applications are reviewed. And my recommendation 46 would be on my part -- you know, I try and OSM tries 47 for outreach through using statewide media, news 48 releases, to get the word out as best we can. And my 49 experience has been that a very effective way to 50






Page 247

1 leverage the outreach that's done at OSM in Anchorage 2 is to match that with getting the word out in your 3 region or to those that you think would be well 4 qualified to serve. And that can be a very effective 5 partnership in helping to get the word out. 6 7 So that's all I can offer at this stage 8 to respond to your questions, Coral, and I hope that 9 answers your question.

10 11 Thank you, Madam Chair. 12 13 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 16 17 MR. HOLMES: Point of clarification. I 18 wonder what is a vacancy. If, you know, we look at 19 who's coming up next at the end of their term, what 20 happens if we get let's say an applicant that we got 21 too many people in the Kodiak area, somebody that is 22 like my good friend, Coral, a handicraft person from 23 the Pribilofs. Do they get Coral's slot when Coral's 24 time is up for review or Rick Koso, you know, 25 supposedly we got somebody that was a dragger that was 26 based out at Unalaska, would he have a priority over 27 Rick's 15 or 18 years on the Council. You know, how do 28 -- I guess that's -- what's a vacancy and how do you 29 evaluate somebody that's coming up for renewal versus a 30 new applicant and geographic distribution? 31 32 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead, Zach. 35 36 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madam Chair. 37 And just for my own clarification and I want to make 38 certain member Patrick Holmes that I'm understanding 39 your question correctly. I heard from you and I want 40 to make sure again I'm hearing this correctly, a 41 question that may have had two parts to it. One was 42 what is the process or protocol for addressing 43 vacancies on the Council and secondly how are 44 selections made by the -- or how are recommendations 45 made by the Nominations Panel for filling those 46 vacancies. 47 48 Did I hear your question correct? 49 50






Page 248

1 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, and how does that 2 relate to a person when they're renewal is up, their 3 experience versus -- is that weighed in relation to a 4 new applicant that might have a similar background, but 5 being from a different geographic area, does that 6 displace somebody that's been on the Council for many 7 years. That's a big question in my mind. 8 9 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair.

10 This is Zach Stevenson responding for those on the 11 teleconference to the question posed by member Patrick 12 Holmes. The process -- and I don't have the nomination 13 review criteria in front of me at the moment, but I 14 will try as best I can to summarize those five or six 15 criteria, ranking criteria from memory. 16 17 The criteria essentially look at one, 18 the applicant's knowledge of subsistence use or if 19 they're a commercial use or sport use applicant their 20 knowledge of commercial or sport use. It looks at 21 their number of years having lived in the region to 22 whom they serve or would be applying to serve on the 23 Council. It looks at their knowledge, skills and 24 abilities with respect to experience of those issues 25 for which they are affiliating themselves to serve on 26 the Council. It looks at their record of public 27 service in that capacity. And there may be one or two 28 other criteria that off the top of my memory I can't 29 quite recall at this moment, but again I'm trying to 30 provide for the Council a thumbnail sketch of the 31 criteria that are used to evaluate applicants. 32 33 The applicants are also provided an 34 interview where a member of a -- a volunteer, unpaid 35 member of a Federal agency who interviews that 36 applicant will then attempt to through a verbal 37 discussion identify how that individual or applicant 38 meets those qualifications. And then those applicants 39 and their information are summarized both verbatim in 40 written language as well as quantified numerically by 41 which their scoring is compared against that of other 42 applicants. And those who rank -- those scores are 43 averaged and it's the applicant that ranks highest in 44 those criteria are used -- that scoring system is used 45 quantitatively so that there is a numeric -- a 46 qualitative and quantitative means for ranking those 47 individuals who are then recommended for consideration 48 to serve on the Council. That information is presented 49 to the Interagency Staff Committee, the ISC, the 50






Page 249

1 essentially leads of the Federal agencies who are 2 represented by the Federal Subsistence Board who 3 forwards their final findings to the Secretaries of 4 Interior who makes their recommendation -- makes their 5 nomination selection to serve on the Council. 6 7 That entire process takes about nine to 8 12 months and typically the announcements are made 9 around Christmas time or early New Year every late

10 winter. So in terms of process, how that process is 11 orchestrated, that's what I've just described. 12 13 With respect to filling vacancies on 14 the Council, it strictly comes down to whom applies. 15 If we have several applicants, that competitive process 16 which I've just described is used to fill those 17 vacancies. If we don't have any applicants then those 18 seats remain vacant. It's strictly driven by the 19 number of applicants that apply and the competitive use 20 of this process. There's no behind the scenes politics 21 used to determine which seats are filled or not, it's a 22 fairly straightforward process whereby the ranking is 23 then used to substantiate or justify the 24 recommendations which are then made. 25 26 Does that answer your question, Mr. 27 Holmes? 28 29 MR. HOLMES: About 80 percent of it. 30 31 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. Let's try to get 32 all of it answered too. 33 34 MR. HOLMES: Yeah, my -- you know, you 35 gave me the process, but my question also revolves 36 around what is a vacancy. When Della's term is up does 37 that mean that's vacant or when Della resigns or I 38 resign that makes it vacant. You know, because I had 39 my interview, but it'll be months before I know whether 40 I'll continue. But what I'd like to know precisely 41 let's say is, you know, somebody applies from Atka are 42 they going to have a better shot because they're from 43 Atka and I'm on a position that's come up for review 44 and there's -- we've got one too many people from 45 Kodiak. You know, does that mean that I'm -- and 46 that's -- but I would assume that all these criteria 47 you've describe goes into identifying, evaluating for 48 positions -- I guess the key thing is what's a vacancy, 49 you know, is it a resignation or just simply a position 50






Page 250

1 has come open that has reached their three year term? 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 4 5 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you for 6 clarifying your question, member Holmes. The term 7 vacancy is used to describe a seat that is currently 8 not filled on the Council. 9

10 Thank you, Madame Chair. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. And 13 for the 2019 we have Antone, Pat, Rick and Sam. And 14 just to kind of add to this discussion a little bit, 15 Pat, I -- you know, I heard from some of the Councils 16 in the Interior that people that had been on their 17 Council for 15, 20 years, even from the start, did not 18 get their seats renewed. So, you know, it's just -- 19 sometimes I think it's up to whoever's doing the 20 reviewing and who's doing the appointing. And a final 21 appointment does get done in the Interior officein D.C. 22 23 MR. HOLMES: I would definitely share 24 that with Della and having known some of those people 25 that were really, really good and really represented 26 their regions and I don't know what the devil the 27 politics were there, but it certainly seemed to me that 28 it was beyond the little five criteria that were 29 discussed. And so this gets into really a sensitive 30 area I think and I've heard that from four Councils, 31 you know. 32 33 Anyway -- thank you. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. I 36 just want to maybe bring to our attention on page 40, 37 4(a) and our description of duties. And this kind of 38 falls into the realm of where we're at with discussing 39 the issue around sea otters. And it says recommend the 40 initiation of review and evaluate proposals for 41 regulations, policies, management plans and other 42 matters relating to subsistence use of fish and 43 wildlife on public lands within the regions. So making 44 recommendation or asking for help in regard to the 45 management or help with the sea otters falls under this 46 because it affects our subsistence take and use. 47 48 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 49 This is Zach Stevenson with the Federal Office of 50






Page 251

1 Subsistence Management. For clarification, you're 2 referring to page 40 in the meeting book under item 4 3 of the Kodiak/Aleutians Subsistence Regional Advisory 4 Council charter, description of duties, Council duties, 5 responsibilities where applicable are as follows. And 6 if I understand you correctly you're referring to item 7 (a), recommending the initiation of review and 8 evaluation of proposals for regulations, policies, 9 management plans and other matters relating to

10 subsistence uses of finfish and wildlife on public 11 lands within the region; is that correct? 12 13 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I'm not -- I 14 don't know where you get the finfish. 15 16 MR. STEVENSON: 4(a). 4(a). 17 18 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Yes, 4(a). 19 20 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. Thank you, 21 Madame Chair. Yes, that's noted for the record. And I 22 understand your statement that item 4(a) of the charter 23 would be the mechanism by which you are citing for 24 addressing the sea otter management issue. 25 26 Thank you, Madame Chair. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Yes, thank -- 29 that is correct. 30 31 Any other comments in regard to the 32 charter. 33 34 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 37 38 MS. SKINNER: So this question or 39 request is for Zach. So I think what I heard Pat 40 asking in a way is whether current service on the 41 Council is worth points in the evaluation process to 42 put it in terms that are easy for me to understand. 43 And if they are are they equal to points you get from 44 being from a certain region or is the regional balance, 45 you know, worth more than having experience on the 46 Council. And what I -- what I understood from your 47 comments is that every time a term is up, an 48 individual's term has run, they are re-competing for 49 their seat. So they don't -- there's is not -- it's 50






Page 252

1 not assumed you're going to keep your seat, you have to 2 submit your application, your application is reviewed 3 through a competitive process and you are, you know, 4 equally evaluated against all other applicants. What 5 I'm not sure of is whether in that evaluation process 6 there you are getting kind of like I said credit or 7 points from having served on a Council. 8 9 So that's one question.

10 11 And I brought this up at the last 12 meeting and not today because we're into the afternoon 13 here, but I do think we should as a Council discuss 14 what I'm going to call succession planning because like 15 I said the last time I brought this up I think there is 16 value in having Council members with a lot of 17 experience, but there's also value in allowing room for 18 new people to come onto the Council. And because we 19 have geographic splits and we have the subsistence 20 versus commercial splits, you're breaking things up 21 into boxes which becomes more constraining when you're 22 thinking about is there room for somebody new to come 23 on or do we want to keep the people who have a lot of 24 experience. And I think that this is exactly the issue 25 that Pat is kind of wrangling with. I wouldn't want to 26 decide do I pick Pat or do I pick someone new. 27 28 And I understand that our Council 29 doesn't get to decide that, but I think it would be 30 useful to have the discussion because it keeps coming 31 up and I think people are frustrated with it. But we 32 haven't actually talked through it. 33 34 So, I mean, I don't know if that can be 35 an actual agenda item or maybe that's just offline 36 discussions, but I do think there's a lot of value in 37 exploring both sides of that coin. 38 39 Thank you. 40 41 MR. KOSO: Madame Chair. 42 43 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick and then 46 Zach. 47 48 MR. KOSO: Yeah, on a little bit of 49 what Ms. Skinner was talking about. I -- you know, I'm 50






Page 253

1 a little confused on this because, you know, when a 2 person applies it's like I said, you know, when I look 3 at these politicians sitting in Washington, D.C., I 4 wish there were term limits set on them, you know, so 5 we get rid of a lot of them. So maybe some people 6 think of that as us sitting on these Boards too, you 7 know. So, you know, and I figure the people that are 8 making the selections don't know us individually like 9 we know each other individually, it'll be hard for us

10 to replace one of us because we're friends and we know 11 each other for a long time. And it'll be hard for me 12 to like I say change out Pat, but someone that's just 13 coming in brand new yet doesn't have the knowledge that 14 Pat supposedly does. So I don't know how you would do 15 this, you know, I'm perfectly okay if I don't make it. 16 I'm sure somebody else could do just as good a job as I 17 can or maybe even a better job. 18 19 So I don't see that as a problem, I 20 just see that as progress. 21 22 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. 25 26 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. 27 Also I think along the lines with what Rebecca was 28 commenting on, I don't know if I heard it described how 29 the Nomination Committee was selected and if the -- 30 what the criteria is or what the process is for the 31 Nomination Committee itself. Because if that is -- if 32 it is comprised of, you know, people from certain 33 demographics or certain agencies then in my mind that 34 would explain or at least help me to understand what 35 that body's process is, you know, the impetus of even 36 where it starts. 37 38 So if you did give a description of 39 that I apologize if I missed it and if not maybe it 40 could be included in -- if we have future discussions 41 about it. 42 43 Thank you. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 46 47 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 48 Chair. Address -- and I heard two questions here and 49 if I'm overlooking any questions please let me know. 50






Page 254

1 The first question that I heard was 2 getting back to this topic of filling vacancies, how is 3 that done and are Council members who have served for 4 consecutive years are they ranked -- are they given 5 weight -- are they given weight or consideration for 6 years of service on the Council. The answer to that 7 question is yes. Part of the consideration of an 8 applicant is their public service. And knowledge and 9 experience working on the Council for having served for

10 years is weighted and weighted heavily. That has a 11 significant bearing on the discussion or consideration 12 of an applicant. 13 14 The question also looked at -- they 15 also -- the question also factors into consideration 16 when a Council member's term expires they are required 17 to reapply. There is a deliberate process designed to 18 make that process easier, more streamlined and more 19 efficient. It's called an incumbent application, 20 incumbent meaning you've served before. And the 21 typical application could take several hours to fill 22 out, the incumbent application should take maybe 10 23 minutes. It's designed to be shorter because that 24 individual's already been through the process of 25 formally applying. So the incumbent application 26 process is designed to be more efficient and easier on 27 the applicant. 28 29 And again my point being that for 30 someone who has served before that experience is 31 weighted, you know, they are given consideration for 32 their time and service previously. 33 34 Am I overlooking any additional 35 questions that were raised, I wanted to make sure I'm 36 not overlooking anything. 37 38 MS. SKINNER: Just Natasha's question 39 about the selection of the Review Committee. 40 41 MR. STEVENSON: Oh, thank you. And I 42 would defer to our leadership team representative here. 43 I am not -- my role as a Council coordinator is simply 44 to facilitate, to serve as the convener of the Review 45 Panel. I am not -- thank you, and I'll turn the floor 46 over to Pat in just a moment. I do not serve as a 47 voting member on any of the Nominations Panels nor am I 48 involved in identifying who those panel reviewers are. 49 So I don't -- I'm not familiar with how that process is 50






Page 255

1 conducted, but I just wanted to respond to your 2 question. 3 4 Pat. 5 6 MS. PETRIVELLI: I just want to add 7 some part of it. I'm a member of the Interagency Staff 8 Committee and that's just a different layer of the 9 process. But one thing I took a class on the Federal

10 Advisory Committee Act and that is a law that does 11 apply to the Regional Advisory Councils. When Congress 12 passed a law establishing the Councils they said that 13 they have to follow the Federal Advisory Committee Act. 14 And in that Act is has processes and procedures for the 15 selection of these members. And so the members are 16 there and so that's why there's a charter for all the 17 Committees. And then for each year those -- the people 18 on those Nomination Panels, they have a guidebook that 19 tells them what criteria to use. So every application 20 is reviewed by those criteria. The purpose of the 21 Federal Advisory Committee Act was to not have any 22 agency bias in selecting these applicants. So 23 technically so they're supposed to be all these 24 criteria used to evaluate the applications. And then 25 each candidate is given a ranking or a rating by it and 26 then a ranking. Now that is forwarded to -- on to up 27 the line which is why it takes eight to nine months to 28 do that. And so this process is followed and then it 29 goes to the Secretary's office. 30 31 So the applicants are evaluated and 32 given the rankings and the recommendation and then the 33 Secretary's office has their own process for making 34 selections. And each applicant undergoes a background 35 check and just other things that we don't know, you 36 know, what they are and, you know, it's just unknown 37 what those background checks uncover, you know. I 38 mean, it could be taxes, it could be violations, you 39 know, it's just never knowing what they are. But those 40 nomination panels are given ranking criteria to use in 41 the evaluation. And those evaluation -- in this 42 Federal Advisory Committee Act was set up to provide a 43 process. And I think if Zach wants to get that little 44 manual, you know, then you guys could look at it next 45 or it could be submitted to you electronically to look 46 at the different criteria. 47 48 I think before Carl Johnson left he was 49 trying to update it because anytime a Federal agency 50






Page 256

1 asks questions from people 10 or more, it has to be 2 approved by the Office of Management and Budget and the 3 Paperwork Reduction Act and I think he was going to -- 4 he was in the process of updating these forms. So 5 there might be a new manual coming out so I don't know 6 if you want to wait until the new manual's approved, 7 but just for the purposes of looking at the process, 8 the old manual has the whole process outlined. And so 9 maybe -- well, I know I have one and so I could give it

10 to Zach and he could share it with you all so that you 11 know what the process is. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Pat. 14 Are we -- have we concluded our discussion on this 15 item? 16 17 (No comments) 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: We will wait for 20 a new manual. 21 22 Moving on I believe we are at the 23 approve the FY 2018 annual report. 24 25 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 28 29 MS. SKINNER: I would move to approve 30 the FY 2018 annual report. 31 32 MS. BERNS: Second. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion made by 35 Rebecca to approve. Second by Melissa. 36 37 Discussion. 38 39 MS. SKINNER: Madame Chair. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 42 43 MS. SKINNER: So I'll just note for the 44 record that the report is marked draft, but it was 45 presented at the last Federal Subsistence Board meeting 46 by Chair Della Trumble. And my comment would be we 47 could make amendments, but the substance of it has 48 essentially already been submitted to the Federal 49 Subsistence Board. So I would probably think twice 50






Page 257

1 about adding really significant changes to it. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think, 6 Rebecca, it's in draft form because we ended up after 7 the meeting, not before. But I don't -- I don't think 8 it's a problem if we wanted to add something to it and 9 resubmit it. It's because we are the last two Councils

10 having our meetings. 11 12 So I don't know, Zach, is -- they will 13 have a workshop in July and the Board does have a 14 workshop or a meeting in July. So if we wanted to add 15 anything to this we could ask that it be resubmitted at 16 that time; is that correct? 17 18 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 21 22 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. The 23 draft 2018 annual report which the Council has received 24 in its meeting book is a draft report right now. And 25 this is the opportunity on the agenda for the Council 26 to approve that annual report. I have been notified by 27 the acting Council Coordination Division director that 28 due to staffing and due to deadlines there is limited 29 capacity to make major modifications or additions to 30 the annual report at this juncture. But the task 31 before the Council now is to review that draft report 32 and to note if there are any significant edits or 33 changes that need to be made and if not to approve that 34 report for submittal to the Board. 35 36 Thank you, Madame Chair. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: All right. We 39 have a motion made and second to approve the report, 40 the draft report. 41 42 Any other discussion. 43 44 (No comments) 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Question. 47 48 MR. HOLMES: Well, I think it is for 49 2018 and that summarizes what we were talking about 50






Page 258

1 last -- for this last year and we'll need to be 2 starting on our new letters. So I -- let's just go for 3 it. 4 5 MR. KOSO: Question. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead, Josh. 8 9 DR. REAM: Through the Chair. Maybe

10 before you call the question, you know, one of the 11 means of increasing or advocating on behalf of 12 increasing FRMP funding could be through your annual 13 report and I see that you already see or you already 14 have on number 2 a request for evaluation of the FRMP 15 project selection process. You could just add a little 16 bit of language about the importance of the funding and 17 needing to make sure that those funding levels are 18 maintained if that is your will. 19 20 Thank you. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Is that good 23 with everybody? 24 25 MR. PRICE: Can that be just added 26 right in? 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think so. We 29 just can amend it. 30 31 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 34 35 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. I 36 neglected to follow-up on one of the points that I 37 believe member Rebecca Skinner had mentioned a moment 38 ago and this could conceivably be included in the 39 annual report as well with respect to succession 40 planning for the Council. There was, if I understood 41 member Skinner's point correctly, a recognition of the 42 need to consider how the Council may address vacancies, 43 that is seats that may not be filled in the future. 44 And presently we have not -- the Council has not to my 45 knowledge addressed what its actions might be in and of 46 individual members to ensure that there is -- there are 47 individuals being considered for future service. And 48 that's how I understood member Skinner's point about 49 succession so I just wanted to make sure that point was 50






Page 259

1 not overlooked. 2 3 Thank you, Madame Chair. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. And, 6 Zach, help me out here. This report is FY 2018. So 7 maybe the recommendation would be as Pat just said that 8 our discussions at this meeting are 2019, that we add 9 these items to our FY 2019 annual report.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Roger that. Thank 12 you, Madame Chair. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 15 everybody. All in favor signify by saying aye. 16 17 IN UNISON: Aye. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Opposed same 20 sign. 21 22 (No opposing votes) 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Good job. Okay. 25 What I -- I talked to Zach a little bit earlier. What 26 I added on here is anything other information or action 27 that we would like to take at this time prior to us 28 setting the dates. And this would fall into where we 29 talked about the letters and so I'd like to open the 30 floor for that discussion. 31 32 Rebecca. 33 34 MS. SKINNER: All right. I have a few 35 suggested letters and I'll take them one at a time. 36 The first letter would be to the Federal Subsistence 37 Board asking them to entertain the idea of supporting 38 tribes in the effort of using science based and 39 traditional knowledge based management of sea otters. 40 41 MS. HAYDEN: Could you repeat that one 42 more time? 43 44 MS. SKINNER: Yes. So generally the 45 letter would obviously be more drafted out, but the 46 idea is a letter to the Federal Subsistence Board 47 asking them to entertain the idea of supporting tribes 48 in the effort of using science based and traditional 49 knowledge based management of sea otters. 50






Page 260

1 To speak to it a little more, this 2 recognizes that sea otters are not a species that falls 3 under the purview of the Council as far as subsistence 4 regulation and so we're really asking the Federal 5 Subsistence Board to do whatever it can to help and 6 support tribes in that effort. 7 8 And because it relates so closely, I 9 would suggest a second letter to the Fish and Wildlife

10 Service asking for engagement with tribes and support 11 to work toward tribal co-management of sea otters and 12 encourage greater participation of the Marine Mammal 13 Program with tribes and the Council. And this would 14 include provision of data, survey data, about the otter 15 populations. 16 17 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 22 Chair. A clarification from member Rebecca Skinner. 23 24 Am I correct in understanding your 25 request, member Skinner, that given that those letters 26 would be directed to the Federal Subsistence Board, 27 those requests would be based upon the concerns this 28 Council has regarding the effects of sea otters on 29 subsistence resources? 30 31 MS. SKINNER: Yes, that is correct. 32 And to clarify, there's one letter to the Federal 33 Subsistence Board and one letter to the Fish and 34 Wildlife Service. 35 36 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, member 37 Skinner. 38 39 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 42 43 MR. HOLMES: I'm wondering on these two 44 letters here and protocols, I know that the Federal 45 Subsistence Board, you know, doesn't directly interact 46 with the Marine Mammals folks, but I'm just wondering 47 if in one of these letters we might add a couple of 48 things. One would be the encouragement of interaction 49 of the Marine Mammals folks to reestablish a co- 50






Page 261

1 management agreement with sea otters and tribes. That 2 was brought up earlier in our meeting, if that would 3 fit in there somewhere. 4 5 MS. SKINNER: Yeah, I actually had a 6 separate bullet point for that, but I think it would 7 fit into the letter to Fish and Wildlife Service. And 8 what I had written for that was a letter to Fish and 9 Wildlife Service encouraging outreach to interested

10 tribal entities toexplore co-management of seaotters -- 11 co-management and financial -- to explore financial 12 support for co-management of sea otters. So basically 13 what Pat said and it's not presupposing any specific 14 entity would be the one to do that, but asking that 15 Fish and Wildlife Service start that up again. 16 17 Thank you. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 20 21 MR. HOLMES: Well, excuse me. I -- 22 well, I guess I need clarification. Fish and Wildlife 23 Service doesn't deal with sea otters and I'm wondering 24 if we shouldn't -- if this isn't a recommendation for 25 them to stimulate that discussion with the appropriate 26 agency within the Marine Mammals. I just..... 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 29 Let's..... 30 31 MS. CHERNOFF: Madame Chair. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Coral and then 34 Zach. Go ahead, Coral. 35 36 MS. CHERNOFF: I guess I like how Becky 37 summarized the second part of her letter, talking about 38 just co-management. I know, Zach, you had mentioned in 39 there talking about sea otters having an affect on 40 subsistence. I'd like to just raise the awareness that 41 sea otters don't just have an affect on our 42 subsistence, there's several of us who use the otter as 43 subsistence. And so to keep that language as to not 44 like we're trying to eliminate the sea otters because 45 it's a value also to many of us as a resource. So I 46 like, you know, just leaving that affect word out of 47 there or affecting subsistence resources, to stay away 48 from all that kind of language and just stick with the 49 co-management, to conserve and use and protect our 50






Page 262

1 environment, those sort of things. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris -- I'm 8 going to ask Chris to come up right now before Natasha. 9

10 MR. McKEE: I understand the point 11 you're making, but I think it's important with regard 12 to the -- I think you want to be very specific in the 13 language that you want to use in these letters that -- 14 so as to make sure that you're -- I think it's 15 important that you specifically mention the impact that 16 the species is having on the subsistence shellfish 17 resource because that is a resource that the Federal 18 Board does have direct regulatory authority over. They 19 don't have regulatory authority over sea otters. It's 20 a fine point, but an important point to make. 21 22 And then along those lines, back to 23 member Holmes' point. the Marine Mammal Program is 24 housed within the Fish and Wildlife Service. So OSM is 25 -- we're all Fish and Wildlife Service employees within 26 OSM, but OSM is a program made up of all the Federal 27 agencies. So but Marine Mammals is directly within 28 just the Fish and Wildlife Service. 29 30 So I just wanted to clarify that for 31 the record. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 34 That's good. And I like that, I was going to suggest 35 the word impact. 36 37 Natasha. 38 39 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you very much. And 40 I also wanted to add some clarification, Madame Chair, 41 thank you, is that the -- from what I understand the 42 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has a co-management 43 agreement with the Steller Sea Lion and Sea Otter 44 Commission which is one of the Commissions that is a 45 body that was created to be able to enter into a co- 46 management agreement with U.S. Fish and Wildlife such 47 as the Walrus Commission and the Polar Bear Commission. 48 And that it is not directly with tribes. And IPCOM is 49 the governing body over those Commissions, overseeing 50






Page 263

1 their activity. And so because of whatever happened -- 2 transpired in the past with the Steller Sea Lion and 3 the Sea Otter Commission, the Fish and Wildlife pulled 4 out of that agreement and withdrew the financial 5 support. And so from what I understand what we would 6 be advocating for is for U.S. Fish and Wildlife to 7 explore reentering into an official co-management 8 agreement with the Commission that would support sea 9 otter management in our region.

10 11 And I think I would look to somebody 12 else if they have a really clear understanding of that, 13 but I think that is important to make sure that we are 14 getting that correct as well. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And I think what 17 you just said I understand that also. And I understand 18 that to be the way this is set up. But how does IPCOM 19 play into this role if they're the ones that should be 20 working with the tribes. Chris, do you know what the 21 answer to that is? This is why -- Rick, I need Mike's 22 number, I have a lot of questions for him. 23 24 Or let's try Pat and then Zach. 25 26 MS. PETRIVELLI: I think IPCOM is the 27 Indigenous People's Commission on Co-Management of 28 Marine Mammals. It's an umbrella group that was formed 29 to try to get all of the different co-management groups 30 together. They don't govern those agencies. Those 31 different co-management agreements like walrus, polar 32 bear and sea otters are with Fish and Wildlife Service 33 and all the others are with the Department of Commerce. 34 And they have their individual co-management 35 agreements. But I think IPCOM was formed as an 36 umbrella organization to try to get to some consistency 37 in these agreements into -- so that each of those co- 38 management agencies could discuss their shared issues. 39 They don't govern those except for by how they agree to 40 be governed by them. And so they're members of IPCOM 41 and they meet regularly to discuss with the agencies as 42 a group once a year I think. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And they also 45 have -- they're comprised of members like Peggy 46 Osterback is a member for the Aleutians and she's from 47 Sand Point. Mike is from Southeast. And that's why 48 I'm trying to figure out, you know, how the -- how they 49 should be able to play a role in this process also. 50






Page 264

1 MS. PETRIVELLI: Well, I guess -- I 2 guess tribes could go to their meetings and discuss 3 whatever issues they have with them. Because they meet 4 -- I think it's only once a year with the umbrella 5 organizations and then they review the co-management 6 agreements and try to discuss common issues. So and I 7 think their annual meeting is always on the website, 8 you know, they have a website and they announce their 9 meetings and I guess you could ask for an agenda item

10 to -- but I'm sure sea otters must come up every year 11 because I know Sitka Tribe was presented with the task 12 of developing a management plan that could be a pilot 13 things for management plans for tribes throughout the 14 sea otter area. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: And I'm also -- 17 I'm also aware that they travel to D.C. at least once a 18 year to meet with whomever may be to push their issues. 19 So somehow we've got to tie them into this. And I'll 20 call Mike and try to get more information so that we 21 can figure this out. 22 23 But does -- did everybody get their 24 answer from Rebecca on what she had wrote and then the 25 clarification from Chris or are we just all more 26 confused? 27 28 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. 31 32 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. 33 I just was wanting to circle back to Coral's comments 34 about sea -- a letter relating to sea otter management 35 plan and how it relates to the impact on shellfish 36 which is the species which is under management by the 37 Federal Subsistence Board. And that I just would 38 appreciate an opportunity to read something before it 39 went out that would -- I think that it is important to 40 balance the nuances between looking to eradicate an 41 invasive species versus maintaining a balance between 42 one species and another coming out of our group. 43 44 Thank you. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead, Chris. 47 48 MR. McKEE: Getting my steps in today. 49 I -- what I responded to that when I was talking about 50






Page 265

1 the specific language of shellfish I meant in no way to 2 disregard member Chernoff's point about the subsistence 3 use of the sea otter resource. I don't see an issue 4 with including that language in any letters you might 5 choose to send. I just think from the perspective of 6 what is within the purview of the Federal -- with 7 respect for what's in the purview of the Federal 8 Subsistence Board it's important to include that 9 information otherwise it's going to be another thing

10 where they say well, you just need to talk to the 11 managing agencies whereas if you address it with 12 something specific to something they have regulatory 13 authority over then it has -- in my mind it has a 14 little more gravatus. 15 16 So, you know, I was just trying to 17 address kind of two different issues, but not trying to 18 disregard the point that member Chernoff brought up. I 19 just was trying to be more -- very specific in that 20 language. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. And 23 I just pulled this up, this IPCOM up and it basically 24 says it's a coalition of tribal and marine mammal 25 commissions, councils and other Native organizations 26 formed for the purpose of identifying and addressing 27 marine mammal issues of common concern. Our vision is 28 to promote the wise use of renewable natural resources 29 by indigenous peoples. 30 31 So I think it's important somehow to 32 tie them into this process too. 33 34 We do have a motion on the -- I guess 35 we probably should take -- do a motion for this letter 36 to be -- the two letters to be sent. 37 38 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 41 42 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair, I'm confused 43 as to what's in the letters. We've talked around quite 44 a few things to include. I was wondering if Zach could 45 whip up some kind of outline of the major points or 46 verbally give us a discussion on what's in and what's 47 out and to which letter? 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 50






Page 266

1 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair 2 responding to the question raised by member Patrick 3 Holmes. 4 5 The motion before the Council right now 6 is whether to support submittal of two letters, similar 7 though specific in their intended audiences. The first 8 letter directed to the Federal Subsistence Board, the 9 second letter directed to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife

10 Service. Both letters calling for the respected 11 entities to entertain the idea of supporting tribes in 12 the effort towards the science based and traditional 13 knowledge based management of sea otters in the 14 Kodiak/Aleutians region. And additionally to support 15 engaging United States Fish and Wildlife Service Marine 16 Mammals specifically because of the impacts of sea 17 otters on subsistence resources for which the -- 18 specifically shellfish for which the Federal 19 Subsistence Management Program has jurisdiction. 20 Additionally recognizing the ability for sea otters to 21 provide for a material good important to the use and 22 culture of subsistence users in the region. 23 24 Thank you, Madam Chair. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Zach. 27 And I guess I wasn't paying attention here for a 28 second. The clarification or point also is the affects 29 on subsistence, right? 30 31 MR. STEVENSON: That is correct. Thank 32 you, Madame Chair. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Do you 35 have any comments to add on this? Hold on, Pat. 36 37 MR. EVANS: I'm just listening and 38 letting it go. One thing I suggest don't mention sea 39 otters as an invasive species because they are a 40 natural species. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 43 44 Pat. 45 46 MR. HOLMES: I was wondering does the 47 point that was requested earlier with the tribal input, 48 reestablishing co-management, blah, blah, blah, with 49 tribes, is that -- would that fit into one of these 50






Page 267

1 letters because I think that was something that Ms. 2 Peterson mentioned and maybe Tom. And anyway that's 3 kind of a critical point to be presented to whomever 4 it's concerned. And I know I like Natasha's 5 phraseology, but I think dropping if that's in there 6 the explore this. I think we should just ask them to 7 do this because that eliminates a waffle point. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 12 Chair. And thank you, member Holmes. And I may have 13 neglected to mention that, but specifically both 14 letters would also include for the record the point to 15 not only reestablish co-management of sea otters with 16 tribes, but also to provide for the outreach to 17 interested tribal entities towards those efforts. 18 19 Thank you, Madame Chair. 20 21 MS. CHERNOFF: Madame Chair. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Coral. 24 25 MS. CHERNOFF: So I guess I just wonder 26 about sending this -- these letters to -- well, I guess 27 -- I mean, we can send whatever letters we want, but in 28 light of the knowledge that there's an organization, 29 IPCOM, and I have a memorandum of agreement with U.S. 30 Department of Commerce, National Marine Fisheries 31 Service and U.S. Department of Interior Fish and 32 Wildlife Service, they already have an agreement and 33 they meet to manage. So I guess I'm kind of wondering 34 we're sending them a letter asking them to support the 35 tribes and management and they already have an 36 agreement with them to do so. So it seems like we 37 definitely also have to -- yeah, I don't know how I 38 feel about that exactly. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rebecca. 41 42 MS. SKINNER: Thank you. So the 43 language that I had suggested in regards to supporting 44 or asking Fish and Wildlife to explore co-management 45 was intentionally high level because that's not the 46 role of this Council and I feel like right now we're 47 getting wrapped around the axil. We're talking about 48 stuff we don't know about, we don't have all the 49 information. What I did hear yesterday is that there 50






Page 268

1 was a co-management agreement for sea otters, but it is 2 no longer in effect. So my understanding is there is 3 an opportunity for Fish and Wildlife Service to enter 4 into a new agreement, but I tried to stay out of the 5 specifics because that's something that I think Fish 6 and Wildlife Service and the tribal entities and I know 7 Sun'aq Tribe is very interested in this and I see Tom 8 Lance back there taking notes, I feel like enough 9 information has come out at this meeting that the

10 parties who should be most involved in it now have the 11 information they need to go forward. I think our 12 letters to the Federal Subsistence Board and to Fish 13 and Wildlife Service are important because I do think 14 Marine Mammals could be more engaged and that's what 15 we're asking them to do. But I think -- and I would 16 like updates from them. But they need to engage with 17 the right people who can actually carry this forward to 18 the ultimate goal and that's just not this Council. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: That's the 21 point. 22 23 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. 26 27 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you very much, 28 Madame Chair. I agree and I appreciate Rebecca wanting 29 to keep it, you know, very high so that it's 30 representative of our role in this. They're definitely 31 has been many, many concerted efforts over decades to 32 work towards some revisions in the way that sea otters 33 are managed and have failed. And so I just am 34 reluctant to try to get at it in a way that even if not 35 intended may circumvent the efforts by primarily 36 through AFN and their Subsistence Committee and work 37 trying to improve communications between these agencies 38 and the -- those that are most impacted by the blood 39 quantum issue. And even though it seems like it is 40 very positive and innocuous, if we don't -- if 41 everybody doesn't have a very deep understanding of 42 kind of what has led to us being where we are I just 43 would prefer that we not charge forward with any action 44 that could in any way have a negative impact on that -- 45 those efforts. I mean, I'm very supportive of making a 46 request to get the agencies to engage in co-management 47 with the Sea Otter Commission and the tribes through 48 the Commission. And saying -- and I love -- I really 49 appreciate Coral having, you know, looking up what they 50






Page 269

1 already have the authority to do and you're completely 2 100 percent accurate, they do have the authority to 3 already do this and for some reason it hasn't happened. 4 And so I don't know if, you know, going at it in -- as 5 a concern for shellfish is the best -- in the best 6 interests of like my tribal membership. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Maybe, Natasha, 9 I think you -- starting a process or mechanism to get

10 people or the powers to be at the table to start 11 discussing this is what we're trying to do. I think 12 we've done this actually after years and years and 13 years of talking migratory birds and we got -- this is 14 exactly what we did to get the right people at the 15 table to start looking at it and realizing there's a 16 problem and making -- and coming to a good -- I mean, 17 they went through a process, they had public hearings, 18 they did a lot of work toward it and they made some 19 good decisions and that's where they are today. And my 20 thoughts are that's basically what we're doing here, 21 we're starting that process. And it gives an 22 opportunity for everybody to be at the table and to 23 give their input and direction to whatever the end 24 outcome is. 25 26 Rick. 27 28 MR. KOSO: Yeah, I like Ms. Skinner's 29 letters also so I'll be supporting her letters. And I 30 think that if it's needed to be a proposal or just a -- 31 I don't know if it needs to be a proposal or a motion, 32 whatever it'll take. I think maybe now is the time. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Coral. 35 36 MS. CHERNOFF: I think that sending 37 these letters where there's already some agreements in 38 place and organizations I think is a little cart before 39 the horse. Also in that earlier we sort of formed a 40 subcommittee to begin to delve into this. I think we 41 should delve into it first, figure out what exactly 42 we're asking for, who exactly we want to ask it from, 43 what entities are already involved and just not -- I 44 guess I see that we've already started this process by 45 forming our task force and I don't -- I don't think 46 it's necessary to send letters. So if there's a motion 47 on the floor I will not be voting for this. 48 49 Thank you. 50






Page 270

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. I think 2 we are -- I think we've talked this to death. 3 4 MR. KOSO: Call the question. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I would -- did 7 someone make a motion? 8 9 MR. KOSO: I think what's her name made

10 a motion..... 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 13 Rebecca..... 14 15 MR. KOSO: .....and it was seconded. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Who seconded 18 that? Oh. 19 20 MR. HOLMES: I don't think it was 21 seconded. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. 24 25 MR. HOLMES: I'll second. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: A second by Pat. 28 29 Discussion. 30 31 32 (No comments) 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think we've 35 covered discussion. 36 37 Call for question. 38 39 MR. KOSO: Question. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: The question's 42 been called. I'm going to ask for a roll call vote. 43 44 Zach. 45 46 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 47 Chair. Roll call vote. 48 49 Member Shelikoff. 50






Page 271

1 MR. SHELIKOFF: Yes. 2 3 MR. STEVENSON: Member Price. 4 5 MR. PRICE: Aye. 6 7 MR. STEVENSON: Member Chernoff. 8 9 MS. CHERNOFF: No.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Member Holmes. 12 13 MR. HOLMES: Aye. 14 15 MR. STEVENSON: Member Trumble. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Yes. 18 19 MR. STEVENSON: Member Skinner. 20 21 MS. SKINNER: Yes. 22 23 MR. STEVENSON: Member Hayden. 24 25 MS. HAYDEN: Yes. 26 27 MR. STEVENSON: Member Berns. 28 29 MS. BERNS: Yes. 30 31 MR. STEVENSON: Member Koso. 32 33 MR. KOSO: Yes. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 36 Motion has carried and passed. 37 38 The next item on our agenda, we are 39 confirming the 2019 fall meeting -- oh, I'm sorry, did 40 I..... 41 42 Rebecca. 43 44 MS. SKINNER: Sorry. I had one more 45 letter and I wasn't sure if Pat had additional items. 46 47 So earlier Pat had mentioned a letter, 48 I believe it was regarding the Izembek Refuge manager 49 position. Mine might be a little bit broader so I 50






Page 272

1 guess I'll make a motion that we send a letter to -- 2 and I have question marks, maybe this is Fish and 3 Wildlife Service or the Federal Subsistence Board 4 stating a concern with staffing and leadership turnover 5 at Izembek and encouraging expeditious filling of the 6 Refuge manager position noting that the Refuge manager 7 fills a key role in management decisions that allow 8 access to subsistence resources particularly Unimak 9 caribou because we talked about that a lot today.

10 11 So that would my motion. 12 13 MS. BERNS: I'll second that. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: A motion made 16 and seconded. 17 18 Pat. 19 20 MR. STEVENSON: A quick clarification, 21 Madame Chair. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 24 25 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair 26 through member Rebecca Skinner. In noting the 27 Council's concern regarding the staffing and leadership 28 turnover and Izembek Refuge is the ask to ensure the 29 timely filling of those positions just for my own 30 clarification? 31 32 Thank you, Madame Chair. 33 34 MS. SKINNER: So it's definitely to 35 ensure the timely filling of the Refuge manager. I 36 generally had heard concerns about turnover generally 37 at Izembek so, yes, we do want the positions filled, 38 but if there's systemic things going on that are 39 leading to turnover that can be addressed then I would 40 like those identified and addressed. 41 42 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Pat, did 45 you have -- want to add anything to that? 46 47 MR. HOLMES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 48 This is a letter I wrote yesterday and bounced it off 49 Della. And I can go make copies of it or I can just 50






Page 273

1 read it to you, but I think it addresses all the points 2 that are there. 3 4 It's to the regional director of Fish 5 and Wildlife Service. Kodiak/Aleutian Regional 6 Advisory Council is disappointed in the lack of 7 staffing and replacement of the Izembek Refuge manager 8 position. Timely implementation is very important. We 9 have been given a promise -- we have been given a

10 promise from the previous Alaska regional director that 11 staffing of the Izembek Refuge and conducting of 12 surveys of caribou and migratory birds critical for 13 local subsistence would be a priority for your agency. 14 As residents of rural Alaska we understand the 15 difficulties of living and working on the Alaska 16 Peninsula. We would hope that you will move forward in 17 reestablishing the staffing at Izembek, and I 18 misspelled that, thanks, Della, Peninsula. We -- 19 Izembek. Okay. Perhaps transfer of active duty 20 employees in your urban office could fill the gap, 21 that's just sort of a little poke. It would help meet 22 the goals of the Refuge while providing valuable 23 experience and education for them. We would urge you 24 to find a permanent manager with the background and 25 qualities of the recent manager, Greg Risdahl, he was 26 probably one of the best persons to fill the position 27 in the last40 years. He's to be complimented on his -- 28 on being -- complimented on beginning his outreach in 29 the locally communities and with our Council 30 immediately on beginning his service instead of waiting 31 until after problems occurred and then reacting. He 32 began his interactions by asking what should I know and 33 how can I help. Hopefully you can resolve this 34 situation prior to spring. Chairman. 35 36 So that's a draft if you wanted to 37 consider that. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Just I have to 40 chuckle. I just realized something. I made a comment 41 about his letter earlier and sending it to Greg as the 42 regional director and then, you know, because Greg was 43 the regional manager in Izembek for like five or six 44 years. However I just realized he signed my name on 45 this letter. But that's okay. 46 47 So we do have a motion on the floor and 48 a second. 49 50






Page 274

1 Discussion. 2 3 MR. KOSO: Madame Chair. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick. 6 7 MR. KOSO: Yeah, I agree 100 percent 8 with sending out a letter to try to get them to 9 establish a permanent manager in Cold Bay because it's

10 tough down there when you don't have a manager. You've 11 got workers there when I -- I went up there two, three 12 times this last summer and I got nowhere. I ended up 13 talking to the mechanic, you know, up there and, you 14 know, he's trying to get me -- help me out especially 15 on that emperor goose stuff. But anyway Natasha 16 finally showed up and I talked to her a little bit, but 17 she doesn't want the job. It's a very hard place to 18 work and they don't have any school there so it makes 19 it a double whammy on most people that got families. 20 21 So it's going to be a hard one to fill, 22 but I think this letter will just create a concern that 23 we have for our area. 24 25 So I'm in favor of this and would like 26 to see this go. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Rick. 29 30 Any other comments, discussion. 31 32 (No comments) 33 34 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Call for 35 question. 36 37 MR. KOSO: Question. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: The question's 40 been called. All in favor signify by saying aye. 41 42 IN UNISON: Aye. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Opposed same 45 sign. 46 47 (No opposing votes) 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion carried. 50






Page 275

1 Rebecca, did we get all the letters, you got one more? 2 3 MS. SKINNER: All of mine unless Pat 4 has one. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Pat, did 7 you have anything else? 8 9 MR. HOLMES: I mentioned this one

10 earlier when I read through my list and I'm wondering 11 if we would like to address it. We had request from 12 the Sun'aq Tribe to help them in support of their 13 efforts on -- they wanted to ask for a letter of 14 support requesting a full EIS analysis for Kodiak 15 rocket launch facility. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I'm going to 18 need some help with this. Zach, do you -- what would 19 the recommendation be for this? 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 22 Chair. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Go ahead. 25 26 MR. STEVENSON: I understand the 27 request that has been addressed by Council member 28 Patrick Holmes. I would need to do a little bit of 29 research on my end to understand who the recipient of 30 that letter might be. I still don't under -- I don't 31 have enough background on the issue and perhaps Tom 32 Lance of the Sun'aq Tribe could clarify that for the 33 Council. 34 35 Thank you, Madame Chair. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Tom. 38 39 MR. LANCE: Thank you. It would be a 40 letter to the FAA. They are the ones that are 41 permitting the rocket launching activities for 42 commercial space ports. 43 44 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 45 Thank you, Tom. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. 48 49 MR. KOSO: Madame Chair. 50






Page 276

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick. 2 3 MR. KOSO: Just a little bit of a 4 clarification. Is this the Israel people coming over 5 here and testing their new rockets? I've seen it on 6 the news a couple different times, but I was kind of 7 shocked to see that it was coming to Kodiak. So I just 8 wanted to know if that's what you're referring to. 9

10 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Pat. 13 14 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair, Rick. I 15 believe that the position from Sun'aq was not 16 necessarily that, but the fact that there would be a 17 very large increase and that what might be addressed in 18 the preliminary may not adequately analyze the 19 potential impacts of that plus several other projects 20 that would take place there. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick. 23 24 MR. KOSO: I guess my take on this 25 would be how does it affect subsistence. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Melissa. 28 29 MS. BERNS: We addressed several when 30 -- when we had -- they did have a government to 31 government consultation with the community of Old 32 Harbor. We did have concerns over some of the fallout 33 from these launches. And them going straight over 34 Sitkalidak Island, Cape Barnabus, areas that our 35 community relies on heavily both for subsistence and 36 for commercial harvesting. 37 38 There was also concern over the areas 39 -- the space -- the air space and the bodies of water 40 surrounding that they would be shutting down during 41 these blast areas that are used by people to get to and 42 from Kodiak and the east side of the island. 43 44 I think that there are also -- there's 45 a pretty large sea lion rookery nearby as well, right 46 there on island as well as other activities that people 47 here in Kodiak partake in. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: So it's my 50






Page 277

1 understanding that you requested an EIS and they were 2 -- they had done is that what you said yesterday? 3 4 MR. LANCE: Thank you. Yes, that's 5 correct. There were -- we supplied comments as well as 6 60 other people I believe provided comments and all the 7 comments were against the proposed activity. And only 8 two I believe comments were for the proposed activity, 9 but yet FAA ruled that the activity only necessitated

10 an EA and provided a FONSI and to proceed. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I guess what I'm 13 trying to figure out is how -- what our role would be. 14 And do we as a RAC send a letter requesting support of 15 Sun'aq Tribe's -- I think that may be further done with 16 an EIS because the public support is not there and the 17 impacts -- the negative impacts to not only the people, 18 but the subsistence can be -- something along those 19 lines. 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 24 25 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Madame 26 Chair. And through the Chair. 27 28 My understanding and correct me, Tom, 29 if I'm misunderstanding you, is that the Federal 30 Aviation, the FAA, who provided a FONSI or finding of 31 no significant impact according to the Sun'aq Tribe is 32 insufficient and inadequate. And the basis for stating 33 presumably that the FONSI or finding of no significant 34 impact is inadequate and insufficient is because of all 35 the concerns that member Berns had cited, specifically 36 the concerns regarding the impact of fallout on 37 subsistence users and marine transportation during 38 launches, the concern regarding impacts to sea lion 39 rookeries used by subsistence users. And for those 40 reasons I understand that the Sun'aq Tribe of Kodiak is 41 requesting that a full environmental impact statement 42 under the National Environmental Policy Act or NEPA is 43 needed. And I understand that the Sun'aq Tribe of 44 Kodiak is requesting that the Council submit a letter 45 to that effect. 46 47 Am I understanding you correctly? 48 49 MR. LANCE: Yes. And, Madame Chair, 50






Page 278

1 may I -- if I add another item, cumulative impacts were 2 not considered and there are other activities going on 3 in the gulf that overlap the same area which happens to 4 be Northern Edge. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: So we would need 7 a motion then supporting sending a letter of support 8 for Sun'aq Tribe's request. 9

10 MR. KOSO: I'll make that motion. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion made by 13 Mr. Koso. Do I hear a second? 14 15 MR. HOLMES: Second. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Seconded by Pat. 18 19 MR. HOLMES: Second and then I have a 20 question once we get going. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Well, 23 discussion and call for question. Go ahead and 24 question. 25 26 MR. HOLMES: Oh, I was wondering, 27 Madame Chair, I got this since. I don't know 28 specifically, but I know Melissa's tribe at Old Harbor 29 has come, discussed things with them and I wonder if 30 NVA and if they have maybe we would want to say that we 31 support and the other Kodiak tribes or something of 32 that nature. 33 34 Thank you, Madame Chair. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Melissa. 37 38 MS. BERNS: Oh, I was just going to 39 comment, I'm not sure if this the appropriate place to 40 put it, but really emphasize on the government to 41 government consultation as to the high importance in 42 these matters. 43 44 MS. HAYDEN: Madame Chair. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Natasha. 47 48 MS. HAYDEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. 49 Just very briefly. And I think it is also important to 50






Page 279

1 note that it is the increase in the number of 2 commercial launches that's proposed, they're looking to 3 go up to at least 36 a year as well as the MDA, the 4 Missile Defence Agency's launches. And I think that's 5 where the FAA felt like they had done -- it didn't 6 warrant an EIS before with what they were planning, but 7 they have since changed and they've increased the 8 number of proposed launches significantly. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Question. 11 12 MR. HOLMES: Call for question. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: All in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 17 IN UNISON: Aye. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Opposed same 20 sign. 21 22 (No opposing votes) 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion carried. 25 Continuing on we I think set the dates for our fall 26 meeting, I believe that was the 18th and 19th of 27 September in Cold Bay. I'm assuming that still stands 28 and we're going to have a full staff there so we will 29 have new people to meet. 30 31 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair, I got one or 32 two more letters, they might be combined, I read them 33 off earlier today if I may. 34 35 MS. KOSO: We seem to be writing a lot 36 of letters. 37 38 MR. HOLMES: Oh, yeah. Well, I sit 39 here through the whole meeting and make little pink 40 sheets, you know, and then I cross them off. 41 42 I was thinking we might want to address 43 one of the reports that we got from Fish and Wildlife 44 showed that they had some nearshore studies that had 45 sea otter information by bay. And I was thinking that 46 it would be really good, I don't know the appropriate 47 agency, but it would be I think informative for us to 48 know what past data, what past surveys they have for 49 Kodiak area on sea otters by bay, by year. And that we 50






Page 280

1 also expressed a need for timely sea otter surveys 2 because something they only do these every few years 3 and it's for the whole island and not for a specific 4 area. And so, you know, for Melissa things down behind 5 Sitkalidak Island are really important. For Port Lions 6 for whale pass or something, but knowing specific 7 information about the numbers of otters by bay, what 8 they have and that they do it in a timely manner. 9

10 Thank you, Madame Chair. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Pat. 13 Zach, would we do that in a letter or can we send a -- 14 basically send a request to Fish and Wildlife in Kodiak 15 for that? 16 17 Go ahead. 18 19 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. My 20 recommendation addressing the request from member 21 Patrick Holmes would be to submit a letter to Fish and 22 Wildlife Service which could then be directed to the 23 appropriate division, presumably Marine Mammals 24 management. And my request would be that those two 25 requests be combined into a single letter just to 26 simplify the response process. 27 28 Thank you, Madame Chair. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Zach. 31 32 Is that good, Pat? 33 34 MR. HOLMES: Uh-huh. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Melissa. I 37 think when we were havingthat discussion and we were -- 38 and just thinking all of the information that is 39 gathered during the tagging process, it would be 40 interesting to see how that information is used and how 41 it's -- I mean, because wewere talking about how the -- 42 when people harvest they're asked how many are in the 43 pod, so we can see that type of data by area. 44 45 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair. 46 47 MR. HOLMES: That would be like a 48 summary of harvest report data. 49 50






Page 281

1 MS. BERNS: Yeah. There you go. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach. 4 5 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Melissa, and 6 thank you, Pat. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Okay. Do we 9 need a motion to that effect, do I hear a motion?

10 11 MS. BERNS: I'll make that motion. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion made by 14 Melissa. 15 16 MR. KOSO: Second. 17 18 MR. HOLMES: Second. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Seconded by 21 Rick. 22 23 Discussion. 24 25 (No comments) 26 27 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Question. 28 29 MR. KOSO: Question. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: The question's 32 been called. All in favor signify by saying aye. 33 34 IN UNISON: Aye. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Opposed same 37 sign. 38 39 (No opposing votes) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion carried. 42 43 Any other letters, Pat? 44 45 I think we prob -- I'm going to say we 46 determined that a Cold Bay meeting the 18th and 19th of 47 September is good. So do people have recommendations 48 for the 2020 meeting back here in Kodiak dates. 49 50






Page 282

1 MS. SKINNER: I think it's the 19th and 2 20th. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Or the 19th and 5 20th of September in Cold Bay. 6 7 MR. STEVENSON: Madame Chair. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Zach, go ahead.

10 11 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you. Through the 12 Chair. Looking at our selection of our fall, 2019 13 Kodiak/Aleutians Regional Advisory Council meeting date 14 and locations. 15 16 On page 37 of your meeting book in the 17 calendar you'll see that pink rectangle under September 18 19th and 20th of 2019. Presently those are the dates 19 that are selected for -- dates and location selected 20 for the fall, 2019 meeting. And if you turn to page 38 21 in your meeting books I'm not showing any winter, 2020 22 meeting date and location yet selected. And I did want 23 to point out that there was a request from the Office 24 of Subsistence Management going back to your fall, 2019 25 meeting dates that if we did look at meeting dates that 26 we try to push those back as late in the fall as 27 possible, preferably to the week of October 28th or 28 keep them as is just to allow -- given the Federal shut 29 down and the ensuing delays that we try to allow for 30 more time than less for the Council members to -- 31 pardon me, for the OSM staff to prepare for that 32 meeting. So I've just been told to perhaps consider 33 that October time frame as well. 34 35 Thank you, Madame Chair. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I'll say 38 originally we considered it, but I am going to add that 39 the Aleut Corp annual meetings are in October followed 40 by AFN. And there's always -- seems like a lot of -- 41 we go like three weeks of meetings in October. I don't 42 think it's going to work. 43 44 MR. KOSO: Madame Chair. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick. 47 48 MR. KOSO: Yeah. I'm very -- I know we 49 got normally the North Pacific Council comes up in 50






Page 283

1 October and then you got the Aleut Corp, the AFN. You 2 got meetings that totally -- October is totally out of 3 the question for me. You know, if you wanted to go to 4 September 26th and 27th that would be fine for me, you 5 know, in September. Because I was thinking just a 6 little bit later a lot of the guys that want to come 7 down and do some bird hunting or something it's 8 probably during the 26, 27 time frame, you know, so you 9 might as well kill two birds with one stone if it's

10 possible. But too late in October the weather gets 11 pretty crappy and a lot of the village people can't 12 make it out. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: So the question 15 I think I would have for both Zach or Chris, if you 16 move it that late, 26, 27th, I know your year end is 17 September 30, the Federal year end. Is that going to 18 cause a problem? 19 20 MR. McKEE: Traveling at the beginning 21 of a fiscal year is always an interesting prospect. So 22 that is a consideration, but I'm sure that we could 23 figure out a way to go around -- to deal with that if 24 the Council felt it was a -- if those dates were 25 appropriate. Are you talking more about like basically 26 the first week of October or the end of September or -- 27 yeah. So and I understand -- yeah. So I don't see 28 that as being an issue and especially if it's something 29 the Council felt was important we could certainly 30 discuss. I -- since I'm not a travel expert I can't be 31 entirely sure of that, but if that's something that you 32 wanted us to explore we could certainly do that. I 33 don't -- we've had meetings at the end -- at the very 34 end or the very beginning of fiscal years before so I 35 don't anticipate that being an issue. 36 37 I did want to speak to the reasons why 38 Zach was bringing this up, the delay. It's mostly 39 because of the shut down everything has kind of been 40 pushed back or pushed forward. And I do understand 41 that the -- that there's these other meetings going in 42 October so I recognize that. The main reason for us is 43 that we try to have the Council booklets prepared and 44 sent out to the Council members a month before the 45 meeting which means that in order for our staff to get 46 all the materials together and get it reviewed 47 internally and then get it sent off to the printer with 48 the -- for the printer to have enough time, we 49 basically have to all those materials together six 50






Page 284

1 weeks before the meeting in order to get it sent out to 2 you guys a month ahead of time. So recognizing that we 3 can -- if you really can't do anything in October I 4 would totally understand that, it's just that here 5 might be some possibility that we would not be able to 6 get the booklets out, you know, a month before the 7 meeting. 8 9 But so I don't know if that would be --

10 if that's really something that would be overly 11 objectionable to the Council, it's just that, you know, 12 instead of four weeks it might be, you know, two or 13 three or something like that. I -- and it's hard to 14 predict now this far ahead of time. I'm -- I was 15 having this discussion last week about this, kind of 16 trying to think, you know, months ahead of time with 17 this. And it would also depend -- it was also 18 dependent on, you know, is this Council going to have 19 any proposals. It also depends on whether there's any 20 what we refer to as crossover proposals that come from 21 other regions where folks in your region have C&T for a 22 species. Those are all -- we are also required to 23 bring those up to the Council as well. So it really 24 depends on the amount of proposals that we're talking 25 about in terms from my perspective the wildlife side of 26 things and getting that thing through all those levels 27 of review because before you guys see it it has to be 28 reviewed -- the proposals have to be written by my 29 staff, they have to be reviewed by the field staff of 30 the appropriate Federal agencies, it has to go through 31 review from the leadership team at OSM and then it has 32 to go to review from the Interagency Staff Committee 33 before it ever gets to the Council. So there's a lot 34 of levels of review. 35 36 And I'm not saying this to try to 37 encourage you to delay, I just want to make you aware 38 of the process that we go through and if we don't get 39 some kind of delay that at least because your Council's 40 kind of the first one up on the list, there might be 41 some issues with being able to get things mailed out, 42 you know, fourweeks ahead of time. So that would be -- 43 and I'm just saying that to make sure that you're 44 aware of it because we do really try to make an effort 45 to get those out a long time ahead of time recognizing 46 also that some of the mail in some areas, the more 47 remote parts of the State, can take quite a bit of time 48 to get to its destination. So we'd really like to 49 avoid, you know, having you getting your book in King 50






Page 285

1 Cove, you know, three days before the meeting or 2 something like that. 3 4 So that's the only reason I brought 5 that up, but again I totally understand your concerns 6 about having too much to go to in October. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: So just a 9 thought, maybe you can use email also.

10 11 MR. McKEE: Yeah, I would love that, 12 but, you know, hard copies have been the way to go. 13 So..... 14 15 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think both. I 16 think if you can email them and if we get the hard 17 copies a couple weeks before I -- I'm sure we'll have 18 time to go through them. 19 20 My concern is October, I don't know 21 about people from Kodiak, but October is a terrible 22 month for us. I -- you know, we've just about traveled 23 the whole month of October. 24 25 MR. McKEE: Yeah, that's a good point. 26 And I can bring that back to OSM about the whole idea 27 of maybe emailing some stuff out as soon as it's 28 available. It might be low resolution because 29 obviously depending on the internet connection, don't 30 know how long it would be to -- whether it would be too 31 big to email first of all in its high resolution or for 32 you to access it on our website as well in terms of 33 downloads. But I'll certainly bring that back to OSM. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Yeah, and 36 accessing and downloading, it basically works, it works 37 good for me too. So I don't know if maybe the..... 38 39 Rebecca, did you have a comment? 40 41 MS. SKINNER: I did. I just wanted to 42 follow-up or respond to the comment about the meeting 43 books. So I appreciate that you guys have a -- kind of 44 a deadline counting back of when the books need to be 45 printed out. But I do want to say that having a book 46 without any of the actual presentations from the 47 different agencies is of fairly low value to me because 48 most of what's in this book I already have. It's stuff 49 out of the Federal Register, it's our -- the roster for 50






Page 286

1 our Council. And so if my choice is getting the agency 2 and department reports via email a week before the 3 meeting, I'd much prefer that to only getting a book 4 that doesn't have any of the materials in it. 5 6 So I hear what you're saying, I 7 understand your timing constraints, but I think as far 8 as the meeting booklet I just -- I guess I have to be 9 honest that I'm not putting a lot of weight on the time

10 for the booklet because there's not -- there's just not 11 much detailed information in it. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Chris. 14 15 MR. McKEE: Through the Chair, member 16 Skinner. Yeah, when I was talking about -- I'm -- I 17 myself am not as concerned with the agency reports as 18 much as -- when I'm saying backdating I'm thinking more 19 in terms of the regulatory proposals that are going to 20 be coming out through the analyses that OSM is going to 21 be doing. Because of those several layers of review 22 that it has to go through and the need to do our due 23 diligence in the review and writing process, that -- 24 that's what I'm concerned with having enough time to 25 do. Because at this point we still haven't actually 26 nailed down some of the review meetings for some of 27 this stuff. So again because of everything that's kind 28 of cascaded from the lapse in funding. So that -- when 29 I mentioned timing that's what I was concerned about. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Rick. 32 33 MR. KOSO: Yeah, so what I'm hearing 34 you say is that a little later in the year would be 35 better. Would like a week -- because we have here a 36 week later on the 26th, 27th and then even possibly the 37 30th and October 1st. But the only trouble with the 38 30th and October 1st, is you don't have a flight on 39 Sunday. So that could probably create a problem of 40 having to pay for an extra hotel or whatever. So, you 41 know, my recommendation if the Board would do it, I'd 42 like to see the September 26, 27. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I have a 45 question. The next one would be Seward which is 46 October 2nd and 3rd. Is there a reason that 47 Kodiak/Aleutians can't do their meeting like the 1st 48 and 2nd because there's different staff at different 49 meetings, they're not going to be all at the same one. 50






Page 287

1 MR. McKEE: Yeah, I mean, some -- off 2 the top of my head you would think by this time I would 3 know where every staff member is, what the regions that 4 apply to. That's not a really concern. The main 5 concern -- and the short answer is yes, we could do 6 that. We try to avoid having more than two meetings in 7 a week. We don't have -- so that is an option 8 certainly for that week since currently we only have 9 one scheduled assuming that Seward Pen who is right

10 behind you, fast on the heels, is not trying to make 11 that same date, but you guys I think are ahead of them 12 right now. So..... 13 14 MR. STEVENSON: That's correct, Chris. 15 16 MR. KOSO: Yeah, that would be a -- 17 that 1st and 2nd would be certainly a good time for me. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I think she just 20 brought up the North Pacific Council meeting is on the 21 1st and 2nd. 22 23 Let's go ahead, Rick, with your 24 recommendation the September 26 and 27. 25 26 MR. KOSO: Yes, I would like -- I would 27 like to make a motion that we have our fall meeting on 28 September 26th and 27th at Cold Bay. 29 30 MS. SKINNER: Second. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion made and 33 seconded. 34 35 Discussion. 36 37 (No comments) 38 39 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Question. 40 41 MS. BERNS: Question. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Question's been 44 called. All in favor signify by saying aye. 45 46 IN UNISON: Aye. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Opposed same 49 sign. 50






Page 288

1 (No opposing votes) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion carried 4 and passed. All right. Let's go to winter meeting. 5 We have one Council member that needs to leave here by 6 4:00 so let's -- we can do this. 7 8 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair, I was 9 wondering if we could do it later in February because

10 my family -- usually we're seeing the grandkids in the 11 first three weeks of February down in the states. And 12 I really dislike doing teleconferences because of my 13 hearing. I just don't get very much of it. So I'd 14 suggest sometime in the week of February 24th and just 15 overlap it with Petersburg or something if that would 16 work for other folks. 17 18 MR. KOSO: 27, 28's fine with me. 19 Or..... 20 21 MR. STEVENSON: Which month? 22 23 MR. KOSO: February. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: February. 26 27 MR. STEVENSON: And where? 28 29 MR. KOSO: Adak. 30 31 MR. HOLMES: I'd say, yeah, or Atka or 32 Akutan just to stir it up. It'll be Kodiak. 33 34 MR. KOSO: We tried Adak one time and 35 everybody was for it except the boss. Alaska Airlines 36 flies out there so..... 37 38 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: I'm thinking our 39 winter meeting has always been in Kodiak -- the Kodiak 40 area. So February 27 and 28th. Is that a motion, Pat. 41 42 MR. HOLMES: Yeah. 43 44 MR. KOSO: I'll make a motion. 45 46 MS. BERNS: I'll second that. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: The motion made 49 by Pat, second by Melissa. 50






Page 289

1 Discussion. 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Question. 6 7 MR. KOSO: Question. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: The question's

10 been called. All in favor signify by saying aye. 11 12 IN UNISON: Aye. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Opposed samesign. 15 16 (No opposing votes) 17 18 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Motion carried. 19 February 27th and 28th in Kodiak. 20 21 All right. I think we are ready to 22 adjourn. I'd like to thank everybody and we'll have 23 Council members each do a closing statement. 24 25 Go ahead, Rebecca. 26 27 MS. SKINNER: Okay. So for my closing 28 statement I actually had some comments on various 29 things about the meeting. There didn't seem to be a 30 better time to bring them up. So in no particular 31 order. 32 33 I -- as far as the meeting books, the 34 little spiral binding. I did like how thin they are, 35 but my comment is as we get papers throughout the days 36 because they're not like a three ring hole punch I 37 can't add my papers to them which was really handy. So 38 take that information and do what you will with it. 39 40 The -- I did want to comment again on 41 how helpful it is to get the reports in advance. Even 42 if we don't get them in advance printed up in the book, 43 if they're provided electronically the morning of the 44 first day so if we have a lot of people in the room and 45 they have their thumbdrives, it would even be useful to 46 have those distributed via email to the Council. 47 48 The third point I had written, 49 communication. It seemed like maybe there was some 50






Page 290

1 communication breakdowns between different agency staff 2 and I guess OSM staff. And I didn't write down 3 specifically what that was and I think there were some 4 challenges with the new State administration, the State 5 just doing things differently. So I just made a note, 6 hopefully that improves. 7 8 I wanted to thank OSM for providing 9 reduced size files online. When the application

10 packets came out I wanted to email the applications for 11 the -- to be on the Council and the size of the file 12 was really big mostly because there's a really high 13 resolution picture on the front of the application. 14 And I think Carl was still at OSM at that point. And 15 I'd asked if there was a lower resolution file or a 16 smaller file available and I see on the website there 17 are now options for -- you can download the smaller 18 file size or the bigger file size. So I did appreciate 19 that. 20 21 I had a question. 22 23 So if we get presentations handed to us 24 at the meeting I wondered if those are in anyway added 25 to meeting packets. So in six months if I look back 26 online at the meeting packet from today is there anyway 27 to tell or access the presentations that were handed 28 out? 29 30 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 31 Rebecca. Zach, do you have a..... 32 33 MR. STEVENSON: Through the Chair, 34 responding to the question from member Rebecca Skinner. 35 36 The Council meeting minutes are 37 designed to summarize the written -- the spoken oral 38 testimony and presentations delivered at the meeting. 39 And the Federal Advisory Committee Act which Patricia 40 Petrivelli of the Bureau of Indian Affairs mentioned 41 previously, requires that the Federal Office of 42 Subsistence Management provide a publicly available 43 public record available to all Americans through the 44 FACA committee data base which is available free to all 45 Americans that includes all materials shared at all 46 meetings, all presentations, all written content, 47 everything. And I would be happy to email the Council 48 log in information so that any member at anytime 49 anywhere can access that information. 50






Page 291

1 Thank you, Madame Chair. 2 3 MS. SKINNER: That would be helpful. 4 And then maybe on the website if there was a note -- if 5 there's members of the public who wanted to go back and 6 look at meeting materials a note that says everything 7 is available at the FACA website that would be very 8 helpful. 9

10 Thank you. 11 12 And that's all I had. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 15 Rebecca. 16 17 Rick. 18 19 MR. KOSO: Well, I just wanted to say 20 it was a really nice meeting, we had a lot of good 21 information from a lot of good people. And I'm really 22 excited to see the caribou herd up around 3,000 in Cold 23 Bay. And I'm also kind of excited that, you know, 24 we're hopefully going to get a commercial salmon 25 fishery in Adak this summer. 26 27 I've been working with Lisa on that. 28 29 So, you know, everything has gone 30 fairly well. We had a couple setbacks in Adak as far 31 as the North Pacific Council went on some of our cod 32 fishery set asides, but that's still being worked on. 33 There was nobody in Adak that had any problems getting 34 their subsistence catches so that's been good. 35 36 Overall the meeting I think was very 37 good. I think all of the people done very really well, 38 Ms. Skinner there on her letters and proposals. I 39 think she's done a wonderful job with that, same with 40 the rest of you. 41 42 So that's really all I have to say. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you. And, 45 Rick, we'll continue to add your caribou surveys to the 46 -- for your discussion. 47 48 MR. KOSO: Oh, yes. Yeah. 49 50






Page 292

1 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Melissa. 2 3 MS. BERNS: Yeah, just mimic Rick. I 4 think it was a very good meeting, lots of information 5 and good discussions. I'm glad that we're taking some 6 proactive steps to addressing sea otters and the 7 impacts they have on subsistence. This has been a 8 concern that's been brought to us over the years from 9 members of the public that have come and testified.

10 And also things that I've witnessed myself being out in 11 the field. So I'm happy that we've got a task force 12 that get together and meet and hopefully we can pull 13 all -- you know, all the stakeholders and powers that 14 be together to try to address these issues and come up 15 with a way that we can work together to do some co- 16 management. 17 18 I want to thank Sun'aq for their 19 community subsistence potluck that they put on every -- 20 thank you, Tom, and your team for putting that 21 together. I think it's a wonderful addition to our 22 meeting, allows us to get together and visit and share 23 a lot of good company and good food. 24 25 And like Rick said looking forward to 26 salmon fishing and hopefully this year be able to fill 27 our smoker and freezer and -- yeah, fingers are crossed 28 the reds show up. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 31 Melissa. 32 33 Pat. 34 35 MR. HOLMES: Madame Chair, thank you. 36 I've been exchanging through our meeting either phone 37 calls or emails with the ADF&G commercial salmon staff 38 and they -- my last one was from them and they 39 apologized that they didn't make it because they 40 started out this morning at 9:00 o'clock with the first 41 major herring opening of the season and basically were 42 buried all day long. And James Jackson said that he 43 would email the salmon forecast for the region to Zach 44 and so I'll give him Zach's email so that'll keep folks 45 informed as to what the hopes are for next year on 46 salmon. And hopefully those returning fish, in my mind 47 I hope that they didn't have to go through the big blob 48 and that we'll get them because if not it'll be total 49 disaster for subsistence as well as commercial. 50






Page 293

1 I found the meeting really informative. 2 3 I'm just as always just so tickled with 4 the team work that our Council does and not only from 5 old geezers like me and Rick and the young new members, 6 but fantastic ladies that keep us in line and moving 7 ahead particularly Della. 8 9 And again I want to reiterate on the

10 potluck, that was great. And I -- the whole thing is 11 -- at these meetings is I find reconnecting with people 12 that I've known for 40, 50 years all around the State 13 through different individuals on our Council and it 14 just renews a lot of good feelings. 15 16 And I wanted to thank Melissa because 17 she didn't get a chance because of our meeting to do 18 her famous seal stew and barbecued ribs, but I will 19 distribute those to some of the seniors that I know and 20 I'll have a little snack myself out of there. 21 22 So thank you very much. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, Pat. 25 26 Coral. 27 28 MS. CHERNOFF: I don't think there's 29 anything else for me to cover here. And so I just want 30 to say thank you to everybody for a great meeting. I 31 think that as Pat was talking about people coming and 32 going. I think everybody has a great deal of value to 33 give and take away from this Council and I appreciate 34 everybody's input. 35 36 Thank you to Sun'aq Tribe for food, we 37 always love food and everything they do to put together 38 a great event. 39 40 And then I have my studio visit. I'm 41 going to be heading down there right after so if you 42 don't have time later, but basically you can come 43 anytime between now and I'll probably be there until 44 6:30 or 7:00. At 322 Shelikoff which is right down the 45 stairs and then second building to the right. And then 46 you go in the middle door, it's got three doors and 47 then you'll be going upstairs. So hopefully I'll see 48 you there. 49 50






Page 294

1 Thank you. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 4 Coral. 5 6 Chris. 7 8 MS. CHERNOFF: And safe travels home to 9 everyone.

10 11 MR. PRICE: Thanks for all the 12 hospitality in Kodiak, everybody here's been really 13 welcoming and just everybody around town is really 14 friendly. I like it, it reminds me of home here in 15 Unalaska. I think we do have a lot to offer OSM and 16 our group is very savvy and I appreciate the work you 17 guys do and I look forward to seeing you guys in Cold 18 Bay. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: Thank you, 21 Chris. 22 23 Antone. 24 25 MR. SHELIKOFF: I would just like to 26 thank Sun'aq Tribe for hosting a good potluck. I'm 27 sure it's going to be very popular with the Kodiak 28 people. And I see the Fish and Game person is gone, 29 but the drone video of Unalaska Lake was brilliant I 30 thought. 31 32 Thank you for everything. 33 34 But I did have one question, maybe 35 somebody can answer me. What's IPCOM? 36 37 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: We'll answer you 38 after our meeting is done. 39 40 Okay, everybody. I want to thank 41 everybody and Sun'aq Tribe, that was a wonderful 42 potluck. 43 44 Go ahead, Chris. 45 46 MR. McKEE: I can't believe I'm trying 47 to extend this meeting, but I just wanted to -- I 48 wanted to get some clarification because I want to make 49 sure that I recorded this down right. The dates for 50






Page 295

1 your fall meeting in Cold Bay were when again? 2 3 MR. KOSO: 26 and 27. 4 5 MR. McKEE: Was not -- okay. Then I 6 had it wrong. Okay. 7 8 Thank you. 9

10 MADAME CHAIR TRUMBLE: It's a Thursday 11 and Friday. 12 13 All right. I'd like to thank you for 14 the potluck and your group and the participation is 15 always amazing and really helps us a lot. 16 17 Josh, Chris, Zach, thank you for all 18 your hard work and help, you kept us in line. Tom, we 19 appreciate it. The recorder, we've kept you on your 20 toes in this meeting and you've done a great job. So 21 and it's just good for all of us to be together again. 22 And I thank you, everyone, for all our hard work 23 because it looks like we've got some work ahead of us 24 to do. And I think we are the group to do it. 25 26 So thank you. 27 28 Safe travels home. 29 30 MR. STEVENSON: For those on the 31 teleconference, this concludes the winter, 2019 32 Kodiak/Aleutians Subsistence Regional Advisory Council 33 public meeting. The time is now 4:06 p.m. on April 34 23rd, 2019. 35 36 Thank you for your participation. 37 38 (Off record) 39 40 (END OF PROCEEDINGS) 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50






1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) 4 )ss. 5 STATE OF ALASKA ) 6 7 I, Salena A. Hile, Notary Public in and for the 8 state of Alaska and reporter for Computer Matrix Court 9 Reporters, LLC, do hereby certify:

10 11 THAT the foregoing pages numbered through 12 contain a full, true and correct Transcript of the 13 KODIAK ALEUTIAN FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY 14 COUNCIL MEETING, VOLUME II taken electronically on the 15 23rd day of April in Kodiak, Alaska; 16 17 THAT the transcript is a true and 18 correct transcript requested to be transcribed and 19 thereafter transcribed by under my direction and 20 reduced to print to the best of our knowledge and 21 ability; 22 23 THAT I am not an employee, attorney, or 24 party interested in any way in this action. 25 26 DATED at Anchorage, Alaska, this 27th 27 day of May 2019. 28 29 30 31 Salena A. Hile 32 Notary Public, State of Alaska 33 My Commission Expires: 09/16/22 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50


kodiak/aleutians subsistence regional advisory … · 2019-05-30 · kodiak/aleutians subsistence...

Documents