lactobacillus serum

8/10/2019 Lactobacillus Serum

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Lactobacillus SerumThis is the workhorse of the beneficial bacteria we‘ll be discussing here. We use it foreverything! Foul odors, clogged drains, cheaper pig/chicken/etc farming, aquaculture, the

applications are amazingly diverse. Learn how to make and use this and you will have a powerful tool in your farming arsenal.

***For an illustrated example of this recipe, check out the farm log here . The flog has allkinds of good stuff, sign up to get the updates via email!***

How to Make:

1. Get container, fill halfway with rice-wash. Rice wash is the water leftover when you rinsefresh rice. For example, go buy rice, whatever kind, bring it home, put it in a pot with

warm water, swirl it a bit and then drain the [now milky colored] water. The water is nowa rich source of carbohydrates. In this step, you can substitute rice with anothercarbohydrate source if you don‘t have rice, as long as it is complex (don‘t use simplecarbohydrates like sugar, honey, syrup, molasses, etc). You can use wheat, barley, kinoa,other carbohydrates as the base to make your carbohydrate wash. This wash will attractmicrobes from the air, among them lacto bacilli.

2. Cover loosely and let stand for a couple days to a weeko When is it done? When you see a light film on top (molds) and it smells a little

sour and forms 3 layers. This is indicating the rice wash is infected with variousmicrobes. This happens more quickly in warm temperatures because microbes aremore active. T hus it is all relative since we don‘t do this in controlled laboratory

conditions.3. The layers are distincto Top layer: floating carbohydrates leftover from fermentation and possibly moldso Middle layer: Lactic Acid and other bacteria (cheese buffs will recognize this as a

makeshift ―rennet ). We will use this layer.o Bottom layer: Starch, byproduct of fermentation

4. Extract the middle layer using a siphon. This layer contains the highest concentration oflactic acid bacteria and lowest concentration of the unneeded byproducts

5. Get a new container, larger than the first. Take the extracted serum from the last step andmix it with 10 parts milk. By saturating with milk (lactose), we dissuade other microbesfrom proliferating, leaving L. bacilli. E.G. if you have 1cup of the serum, mix it with10cups milk.

TIP: The best milk to use in unpasteurized natural milk. However, any milk willdo, even powdered milk. In our experience, the best is unpasteurized natural but

just use what is available. We just want to saturate with lactose to promote L. bacilli bacteria.

http://gilcarandang.com/lacto-preparation/






6. You want to keep this stage anaerobic as much as possible. You can use something likerice bran, barley bran, wheat bran, etc sprinkled on top of the milk. I use a sealedcontainer with a one-way valve. Note: Beware of bubbling during this phase. It canlead to overflows if you filled to near the top. It can go through the one-way valvesso keep an eye on it and don’t do this step around nice things

7.

After about 1 week (temp dependent), you‘ll see curds (made o f carbohydrate, protein,and fat) on top of the milk. The water below will be yellow colored – this is whey,enriched with lactic acid bacteria from the fermentation of the milk.

NOTE: Microbes like L. bacilli are more active in warmer temperatures. Thecurds you see are a byproduct of the fermentation process. Fermentation isgenerally associated with microbial processes under anaerobic(no oxygen)conditions. Now, L. bacilli is a facultative anaerobe, that is it can live and workwith or without oxygen, but less competition in anaerobic conditions.

8. The water below(whey+lacto) is the good stuff. You want to extract this. You can either

skim the curds off the top, pour through a strainer, or whatever other methods toaccomplish that

NOTE: Remember the curds, or byproduct of milk fermentation by L. bacilli, aregreat food. They are full of beneficial microbes like L. bacilli. Feed the curds tothe soil, compost pile, plants, animals, humans – whoever wants them! They arefull of good nutrients/microbes. No waste in natural farming.

9. To preserve at room temperature, add an equal part sugar/molasses to the serum. So, ifyou have 1L of serum, add 1kilo sugar or 1L molasses. Otherwise store in fridge to keep.

Example Recipe: 1 L rice wash 10L Milk 10kg sugar After rice wash and milk remove curds – around 1L = 20 L lactic acid bacteria serum

What to Use it for and How

Before using, first mix 1:20 with water. 1 part serum to 20 parts water. Then followinstructions below:

Odor Reducer:Add mixture to animal‘s water at 2tbsp/L. You can mix it more or less, there are no rules here,

just how we typically do it.



Apply to places where there is odor buildup. The harmless bacteria ―eat the odor causinggerms and the smell is gone!

o Indoors: reduces foul odors, including animals like cats, dogs, mice, other pets.Stinky shoes? Wet clothes from being outside? Gym clothes that haven‘t made itto the wash yet? Smoker in the house? Kill these nasty smells!

o Outside: use to control odor in pens – pigs, cows, chickens. In barns, around theyard, etc

Household use:

Clear clogged drains: dump mixture into drain to clear clogs. Exact amount depends onthe clog, haha. A few tbsp to 1L works well. For semi-clogged drains (like kitchen sinkdraining progressively slower), use at night and allow at least the night for microbes towork.

Keep septic clear. Tired of having your septic system drained? Add lacto! Depending onsize of your system, pour a few tbsp. to a few L into the toilet every few months.

Houseplants: Mix 2-3tbsp per 1L water and use that to water them.

Animal Bedding:Mix 2tbsp to 1L water. Mix with animal bedding to reduce smell and increase longevity. Innatural pig farming we use at least 1 yard deep of bedding so there is plenty of space formicrobes to work. Bedding consists of organic substrate like rice hulls, wood chips, sawdust,wood shavings, shredded corn cob, any other high cellulose, high lignin material. Natural pig

farming is a future topic on this site. Spray until bedding is slightly damp but not wet. How muchyou spray really depends on your climate. If you are in a very dry climate you can spray a littlemore and mix in evenly. Wetter (more humid) climates use a bit less. Mix into the beddingevenly where necessary (i n many cases, like with pigs and chickens, they‘ll mix it themselves).How much you use is all relative. These guidelines are for pigs and chickens. More extremesmells, just use more! Want to spray less often, use more! As we notice a smell we spray. Thus,as pigs grow bigger, make more poop, we spray more often! Dosage/frequency is relative andwill depend on your situation.

Animals – Digestive/Growth Aid:Mix 2tbsp to 1L water, then add that mixture to animal‘s water at 2tbsp/L(so the animal‘s watercontains little less than a quarter tsp/L of lacto serum). But this is very flexible. The Lacto serumis not harmful, so its just about adding enough to be effective, without wasting it.

Improve digestive efficiency in humans and animals alike:o Improves how you feel after meals, particularly meals rich in meats. It‘s

awesome. After eating, mix 1-2tbsp lacto with a cup of water and drink that.



Makes you feel so much better after! Lessens that afternoon lull, gives you moreenergy!

o Aids digestion in animals. This is critical. You can raise animals on less food, andsee the same and greater growth rates. Amazing results in pigs . The principal isthat the microorganisms help digest the food coming in – better digestibility

means better nutrient absorption. Save on feeds, better feed to growth conversionratio!

TIP: If you really want to boost growth, mix 2tbsp to 1L water and soakthe food in this solution for a few hours to a few days. Food is pre-digested when animals eat it, AWESOME!

o Great results in livestock and poultry.

Plants – Growth Aid:When added to water for plants, nutrient uptake efficiency is increased, which increases growth!

Improves growth of plants when applied as foliar spray and soil drench. Improves theirefficiency in uptaking nutrients so naturally, growth is enhanced. With the use of thesemicroorganisms, the nutrients you spray or drench to feed your plants become more bio-available and easily absorbable by the plants. Technically, you can say that plants do notuse organic nutrients directly. Microorganisms convert organic nutrients to theirinorganic constituents which the plants utilize. Utilizing microbes, you will notice better

plant growth and health.

Disease Resistance:

This is a consequence of the increased efficiency of nutrients. More nutrients available atsmaller metabolic cost.

Lacto suppresses harmful bacteria in food/water that animals consume, enhances their gutflora so that line of defense is working optimally, etc.

Aid Compost: Mix 2tbsp/L and spray on compost pile to improve decomposition. This is a huge topic

that will be expanded upon in another post.

Aid Organic Fertilizer:



Add 1-2tbsp per gallon water-nutrient solution. Lacto consumes organic nutrients making them bio-available to plant roots.

Plants don‘t use organic fertilizer! Microbes break it down to inorganic constituents, and plants take those up. This product makes that process more efficient.

Aquaculture:Lacto works in aquaculture just fine if you don‘t have BIM available. Add lacto at roughly 1L

per 700m3 of fish-containing water. Example: you have a pond that averages 20m wide by 30mlong by 2m deep. So, 20 x 30 x 2 = 1200m3. In this case you would add roughly 1L of BIM orLacto

Microbes digest fish wastes, cleaning up water and improving water quality. Allows fish to grow larger due to digestive efficiency

Allows higher population of fish in the same amount of water! Literally, increases thecarrying capacity of your body of water! This is awesome for aquaculture setups

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Zach

February 18, 2013 at 4:20 am - Reply...

Can homemade lacto go bad? A friend told me it smelled like alcohol, so I don‘t want touse it if it has indeed fermented into alcohol. It‘s the base serum (leftover strained milkliquids + equal part molasses to feed the bacteria). I keep it stored with the cap loose in awarm, dark place.

o Patrick


The short answer is yes, it can go bad depending on how it‘s made. Gil‘s stuffdoesnt go bad but I‘ve made a batch or two where the smell kinda went off and I

just tossed them. I think it‘s differences in the processing/storing, I think I hadstored it in too large a bottle (Gil‘s are in 500ml glass bottles filled right to the

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top, I think too much air in the storage bottle makes it harder to preserve). Itshould smell kinda soury-vinegary like a fermented extract. It may have a tinge ofalcohol smell to some people but not strong.

Ideal storage conditions is refrigeration with cap tight, even when you‘ve mixed

with molasses to preserve it. Microbes are less active in the cold, especially L. bacillus that likes the heat. I use the fridge especially when I have a little spray bottle of diluted mix for smells/compost/cleaning/etc. Keep the diluted mix infridge and it lasts several days, whereas outside just <24hrs..

Zach

February 18, 2013 at 11:11 pm - Reply...

Ok, thanks for all the tips Patrick. I think mine still may be good, myfriend said it smelled like alcohol, but I think it smells okay. Kinda sour,

much like you describe it.I‘ll move it to a container where I can fill it up without air space, as wellas put it in the fridge.

Nick

May 31, 2014 at 5:13 am - Reply...

Thanks so much for this website and sharing all of this wonderfulinformation! I have a quick question before I finish the final stage

of making this serum. Everything went well just as you said butwhen I open the jar of curdled milk it smells like throw up. ShouldI start a new batch or continue to mix this with molasses? I let itferment in the corner of the room where it received indirectsunlight , I did not see any instructions saying to leave it in thedark. Thanks for all you do!

Patrick

July 2, 2014 at 10:40 pm -

Hi Nick, sorry for the late reply, busy days! It might smelllike sour cheese or something, that is normal. I‘d still m ix1:1 with molasses or sugar and that should help the smell alot.

o dexter tamayo

January 26, 2014 at 9:23 pm - Reply...















using diluted lacto serum where it is diluted to 1:20 to water my plants, how manytimes will i use to spray the lacto in a week

Patrick

January 28, 2014 at 7:34 am - Reply...

Once per week is fine. You can spray every day if you want, doesn‘t hurt.Also use as a soil drench when you apply fertilizer(particularly organicfertilizer).

dexter tamayo


im on the final stage of making lactobacillus serum where 1 part of

lactobacillus infection (strained rice wash )and 10 parts of milk aremixed, after a week of fermentation i notice that there are tinywhite worms moving on top of it , i just want to ask if am i still onthe right track or do i need to make a new one

Memukan

March 23, 2013 at 12:02 am - Reply...

Patrick,

I was wondering if I used raw milk and let it set a room tempature until the wheyseperated then add molasses would this make the same type serum ?

Thank you,

Memukan

o Patrick

March 23, 2013 at 2:40 pm - Reply...

Hi Memukan,

I talked to Gil about this today. Basically you can try that if you want and see if itworks, but it‘s a departure from the natural method. The idea with the naturalmethod is to use the rice wash to establish a good population of beneficialmicrobes. You take that population and inundate with lactose rich milk tofacilitate domination of lactic acid bacteria in the environment of diverse







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beneficial microbes. Other beneficial microbes die, get eaten by lacto, or go intocyst form to await favorable conditions.

Anyway try it without using rice wash and see how it goes. I think it might have ahigher chance of turning out bad but might still be fine.

Thanks for posting!Patrick

Memukan

March 24, 2013 at 4:41 pm - Reply...

Thank you Patrick,

I will just stick with what works for you, heck there is no need in reinventing the wheel.

Memukan

Alvin

March 29, 2013 at 8:56 am - Reply...

Hi, I found this site so useful and it helped me a lot for me to prepare my futureexperiments. I heard about Gil in a YouTube video made by and an American thatteaches how to obtain lactobacillus serum and it led me to this site.I‘m a beginner in doing hydroponic and aeroponic system at home. One of the problems I

encountered was the formation of mold on the stem and root part of my wheatgrass.Thought I found the problem was the density of wheatgrass was too high and the tray Iuse has only a few holes for water draining and ventilation, plus the temperature inmanila is high. By the way, I didn‘t expose the wheatgrass in sunlight so there‘ s no UV tokill the molds. Since I saw on this page that lacto suppresses harmful bacteria, I waswondering if lactobacillus serum can be used to kill mold that forms on plants ?

o Patrick

March 30, 2013 at 6:50 am - Reply...

Yes! You may use lacto to suppress mold growth. Regularly spraying with adiluted lacto mix will keep a steady population of l bacillus on the roots whichwill protect them from mold.

As far as treating roots already suffering from a mold problem, might not be aseffective. You might try treating with a stronger lacto mix for a few feedings andsee if it helps, it should help if not cure. The solution I would try first however isthe ginger-garlic extract. That has great anti-fungal properties that should work

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wonders! I‘d treat with ginger -garlic for a few weeks then switch to lacto toestablish a protective population of those microbes. Experiment experimentexperiment…

Speaking of, what experiments are you planning? We‘d love to hear about them,

especially other readers I‘m sure!

Patrick

Alvin

March 30, 2013 at 8:20 am - Reply...

Thanks for answering my question Patrick. Before I know about lacto, I planned to introduce UV lamp in order to kill the microbes in the liquidfertilizers, but I‘m just experimenting with it cause I don‘t know whether

the UV will also affect the nutrients or not. Now I know about lacto, I cancompare between UV and lacto to see which one is better.I just started germinating some crown daisy, golden berry and green butterlettuce, waiting to be transplanted to my aeroponic system. I use a digitaltimer outlet to control a pressured pump to spray liquid fertilizers to theroot with atomizer spray heads, I was wondering when I put the lacto intothe liquid fertilizer, will the lacto withstand the pressure of the pump andthe spraying of the atomizer spray heads ? Cause otherwise, I would haveto use the dripping method instead.By the way, I just prepared some rice washes this morning, waiting for thehungry microbes

Patrick

March 30, 2013 at 11:40 am - Reply...

That sounds great Alvin, I can‘t wait to start experimenting withaeroponics using Gil‘s recipes! That is an interesting questionregarding lacto and ―atomization , ha. I think they will do fine butyou‘ll have to strain carefully when adding the lacto so you don‘tget particulates that clog the sprayers. I know fungal hyphae don‘tgo through pumps successfully, they are very delicate, but I think

you should get some bacteria that survive no problem. oqi

April 1, 2013 at 2:39 am - Reply...

Hi Patrick















What if we try to make specific plant microorganism, should we attract themicroorganism from the plants suroundings using rice and than fermented or can we justferment leaves and roots for example directly using lacto, which method will be moreefficient.

Regards, oqio Gil


i would normally use the rice (carbohydrate) to attract the specific plantmicroorganisms. after so doing, add sugar to proliferate the population. then asyou may wish, do the fermentation and add on of lacto.

Oqi


Thank you sir four your kind reply, admire your job on thismicroorganism stuff, all the best

Oqi


Thank you for your kind reply sir, admire your job so much on this

microorganism and natural farming, god speed and all the besto Patrick


Hi Oqi thanks for the question. Looks like Gil got to it before I did. As he said the best way to collect plant-specific microbes is by following the BIM recipe, justfor the plant you want microbes from. This will give you the highest population ofthose microbes. When we ferment leaves and roots we are more looking for thegrowth hormones and enzymes within the plant material we‘re fermenting. That

said, those leaves and roots have a biosphere that has organisms living within it.You will get some of those when you collect and ferment that material, just not ashigh a population. So I don‘t know if it is as much about efficiency as what youwant from the product. If you want the best plant-specific microbial inoculant youcan get, use the BIM method of collec tion. Otherwise you‘ll still get some usingthe normal fermentation method.

Oqi




















Thank you for the explanation patrick, keep up with new recipes please,eager to learn more

Big Ray

April 10, 2013 at 4:38 am - Reply...

Don‘t mean to hijack your thread Patrick. But….

I have been making my own kefir for over a year now. Kefir is made using only milk andkefir grains. Much like steps 6- 9, fermenting kefir makes ―whey , curds and kefir. I drinkthe whey, the curds and the kefir. But, I always have extra whey. Lik e y‘all, I use it onmy soil, plants and compost pile. I give some occasionally to my neighbor‘s cat and theother neighbor‘s two dogs. They love the stuff!

Kefir grains are getting easier to come by nowadays. Yahoo groups has a ―kefir groupwith members more than willing to share grains. These grains are not actual seeds orgrains in the sense that we think of. The word ―grains is a corruption of a Turkish wordthat I can‘t remember now.

A very sceptical friend at LSU tested my kefir way back when I first got grains. Theamount of beneficial bacteria in my kefir was astounding! The most abundant bacteria byfar was lacto. I am diabetic and my health has benefited greatly since I started drinkingthis miracle elixir.

With every batch of kefir (24 hours), the grains multiply! I would offer grains to y‘all but,I have about 6 people already waiting for grains right now.

I‘m wondering if the kefir whey (lacto) is helping or hurting the mycorrhizae?

o Patrick

April 15, 2013 at 11:26 am - Reply...

Ya I‘d love to start playing with kefir! That‘s up the same alley as all this stuff.I‘ve looked into it before but never obtained grains. W ill have to go on the to-do

list once this site is going well.Hard to say if the lacto hurts or helps the mycorrhizae.. Mycorrhizae infect theroots for the exudates deposited there by plants. Lacto species generally feed onsimple sugars rather than complex carbohydrates like starches, so they might notdirectly compete with mycorrhizae. Someone needs to do some experiments…

Jeff















April 12, 2013 at 11:26 pm - Reply...

Dear Gil and Patrick: Thank you for sharing the things that you know with those of uswho are learning. I suspect it is a million efforts such as you are putting out that will shiftthe balance in favor of all life or nature, which is my heartfelt desire.

I have a question. I am really curious what it is about the sugar/molasses that preservesthe serum, what is going on biologically to allow it to keep? Is it acting as a secondarynon preferred food source instead of lactose, and just slows down the growth? It seemslike if you added lactose it would cause a population explosion but this obviously is nothappening with the sugar. Seems like I have read elsewhere on your site that the sugarenergizes the bacteria. Then I thought that perhaps the sugar is just allowing the mixtureto keep and that the lacto guys are just ganging out. Just wondering if you know what isgoing on or could point me in the right direction.

o Patrick

April 13, 2013 at 3:20 am - Reply...

Hi Jeff great question and welcome to the site. Hope you stick around, we have alot of content still to be published on here as well as the Flog starting in May.

So, basically sugar acts as a preservative only when in high concentrations. Whenit is diluted enough, it‘s a great carbohydrate food source for growing bacteria.When it is too concentrated, the osmotic pressure(pressure gradient based onamount of solutes in water) on the bacterial cells keep them from taking much in,thus they cannot significantly grow or divide. Hope this helps!

Jeff

April 13, 2013 at 4:48 pm - Reply...

Thank you for this explanation, it is helping to fill in the puzzle in mymind of these unseen little creatures.

One quick follow up question, does that mean that when it goes to the 20to 1 ratio, it becomes volatile in the sense that it needs to be used quickly?

I am amazed at all of this stuff because I sense that there are many more possibilities around the home, and for personal hygiene/health uses. I willcheck out what the Flog is.

Patrick

April 13, 2013 at 5:27 pm - Reply...



















After the second dilution, yes you should use it within a day ortwo. The first time you dilute it with 20 parts water, it‘s stillconcentrated enough it will keep for ages, I will amend the recipeabove to make that clearer. Yes, tons of uses! This article justtouches on many of them.

The Flog starts May 1st. For now it will follow the birth andgrowth of my balcony garden with weekly update s. I‘ll be usingGil‘s techniques along the way and should be a gooddemonstration of them (I hope, I‘m kinda a tinkerer when it comesto the plants part of it). If you sign up for the newsletter you‘ll getthe weekly updates, should be fun! Later there will be updatesfrom Gil, special info, all that good stuff. We‘ve just started thesite, long road ahead.

Jeff

April 15, 2013 at 2:59 pm -

Concerning uses. I wonder about using it as avegetable/fruit rinse. Thinking back on the cantaloupe

problems from last year. Or spinach. Do we have any ideaif lactic acid bacteria can help to reduce e. coli strains orout-compete or fill latch on points? I assume the acid levelitself would be too low after dilution to do the job, but

perhaps both LAB in the presence of acidity would do it?

Also, what about a natural underarm deodorizer? Again,using the idea of out-competing. I begin to imagine a strongfavoritism of beneficials covering most surfaces in our liveswithout the use of harmful sterilization methods such assoap, chlorine, etc.

Patrick

April 15, 2013 at 3:12 pm -

I like your train of thought Jeff. Yep, it can and in fact is

used for all those things. It fights pathogens, like E. coli, bycompeting for resources and living space normallyoccupied by them, that‘s partly why it‘s such a popular

probiotic. It can be used as a deodorant but not sure bestmethod of application. In Japan [some] people use LAB aslaundry detergent. There are articles on all these I‘m tootired to dig them up now but will look later this week if Ihave time. Super interesting, when you get into it, the



applications for this stuff are endless. The recipe above justtouches on them.

Josa

March 18, 2014 at 4:28 am -

Hi Patrick, I diluted my LAB 20:1 and have been using thatin a further dilution to water my plants. My 20:1 dilution isin a gallon sized jar and has begun to look like it‘sfermenting. It‘s gotten bubbly on top. Has it gone bad?When it is 20:1 do I keep it in a closed container? That ishow I stored it originally but when I noticed the smellgetting vinegary I put a breathable material on top andloosely placed the jar cover over that. Is this what I should

be doing? Can I still use this 20:1 dilution?

Patrick

March 18, 2014 at 8:58 pm -

Hi Josa,

Actually you want to keep that 20:1 dilution as anaerobic as possible. If it is fermenting and producing gas you willwant an airlock, or crack the lid each day so it doesn‘texplode. If it has started the fermentation process it will

eventually run it‘s c ourse and not be as effective. Tocombat that, you can store it in the fridge. I usually mix the1:20 dilution in a container I can expect to use within 1month, that way I don‘t run into that problem even if Ileave it out of the fridge. Hope this helps and gives yousome ideas.

Cheers,Patrick

Jeff

June 8, 2013 at 8:57 pm - Reply...

So, just wanted to report back that everything worked as stated in theabove recipe. Have a nice batch of LAB in the fridge and some stabilized(w/molasses) in the garage. I‘m using it outside on the plants, hoping forhealthier more drought tolerance. Interesting observation, (perhaps): Itseems that after the first dilution to 1:20, if it sits for about a week it will







gradually become more acidic. As if it is undergoing a secondaryfermentation from the molasses. (I know for a fact that something ishappening because of pressure buildup within a plastic bottle)It seems tome that it takes on a vinegar quality. (acetic acid?) If this is so, it seemsthat it is not altogether a bad thing, at least for some applications, tho I bet

LAB populations fall precipitously. Which brings me to one question.Why do you guys recommend arresting the fermentation process on other parts of the website when making various nutritional juices? Seems to methat the nutrients would be just as beneficial in the presence of vinegar asalcohol. And one more unrelated question, have you ever done work orexperimented with making your own PNSB, or is there no real agriculturalapplication? Again, thank you so much for your work, for your kindexplanations to us laypeople!

Patrick

June 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm - Reply... Hi Jeff,

Thanks for reporting back! That‘s great you‘ve got a batch finished – now to use it and report back again! heh..

I‘m not sure on this so I‘ll have to double -check with Gil or gethim on here, but I think we stop fermentation in the other recipes

because we‘re trying to get the alcohol -soluble compoundsextracted from the source material. By inundating with alcohol,

fermentation stops and there is more osmotic pressure to get thealcohol soluble compounds out of the source.

Regarding your diluted serum, after you diluted the mixture didyou put it in a bottle with a lot of extra air? I‘ve found that canmake it continue cooking more than when you fill the bottle rightup to the top. Also, try storing it in the fridge after you dilute it.That will slow the activity right down. Anyway you can leave itout and it will reach equilibrium as it becomes more acidic.

Thanks again for letting us know how it‘s going, Patrick

Jeff

June 11, 2013 at 6:30 pm -

Thanks for the feedback. I‘ll be applying to the landscaperegularly and we shall see what happens. Just feels good







moving in the direction of natural processes with anorganic approach. I also have 3 batches of FPE going to useas well.

luvin

May 13, 2014 at 6:21 am - Reply...

hello patrick, i happen to add lots of molasses to my LAB, it‘s three timesthe volume of lacto. you said that the osmotic pressure keeps the bacteriafrom dividing. i think that‘s bad., so can i do something to make this thingwork as it should be?

Patrick

May 20, 2014 at 3:20 am - Reply...

Hey Luvin,

I would add water to even it out. The water will dilute it down towhat it should be. Don‘t add too much water though. And testafterwards – take some out and add to a little water and seal it up,wait to see it produces gas, has live culture present.

Cheers,Patrick

Bryan April 17, 2013 at 2:43 am - Reply...

Using LAB to ferment pig or chicken feed, what dilution with dechlorinated water do yousuggest (ie 1:30 1:100 etc) based on your experiences. Obviously the totL quantity ofwater is dependent upon that amount necessary to achieve field capacity.

What percent do you suggest adding the fermented feed (both as wet and dried) to thetotal feed amount.

Thank you to you and Mr C. in advance.Best Wishes

Bryan

o Patrick

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April 18, 2013 at 7:02 am - Reply...

Mr. Prokashi! Thanks for the question – love your site, I think you‘ll like oursalso. I talked to Gil about this yesterday, he recommends at least2tbsp/L(8tbsp/gal). You can use this to ferment feeds overnight. You can mix

with normal feed as long as the feed doesn‘t contain antibiotics as those will killthe microbes. I‘d mix 1:1 with normal feeds. This is all flexible though it‘s justour recommendation. I have a friend who lives next door to a dairy farm so getsfree milk from them. He feeds his pigs exclusively milk. Ferments it for 3 days

before each feeding(rotates 3 buckets of feed). Contrary to what you would thinkwith that diet, he‘s never had a problem with diarrhea, his pigs are not obese, andin fact some 4- H gurus that visited his farm said they‘re some of the best looking

pigs they‘ve seen.

A note: You still dilute the pure serum 20 times with water (the step in bold at thetop of the ―what to use it for… directions) before adding 2tbsp/L.

gil carandang

April 22, 2013 at 9:01 am - Reply...

pretty soon we will post our techniques in raising natural pigs – from housingdesign,feeds and ferments among others. for now enthusiasts you can ferment the feeds

prior to feeding adding BIM and even bionutrients overnight. make sure your feeds donot have antibiotics!

Bryan

April 22, 2013 at 1:13 pm - Reply...

Dear Mr C

Can you add in – along with the pigs – some information about chickens. I understandthat there is a lot in common between both. Maybe you can highlight some of the finerthings (those usually make all of the difference most times) for chickens.

Thank you and Patrick in advance!

Best WishesBryan

Chad

April 29, 2013 at 10:50 pm - Reply...












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I was starting some rice wash for the first time a forgot that the tap water ischlorinated.Will it be okay if I still use it?

o Patrick

April 30, 2013 at 5:54 am - Reply...

I would watch it and see it separates into the 3 layers due to presence of bacteria.If not you might have to start fresh with non-chlorinated water. I think it should

be fine though just might take an extra day or two for the bacteria to infect it.

MIkeS

June 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm - Reply...

Gil and Patrick,

Great site, love all the information! I have a question about starting the LactobacillusSerum.We make rejuvelac from sprouted quinoa ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejuvelac ) I waswondering if this would work in place of the rice wash in your recipe as it is somethingwe have a little more experience in making. The technique is very similar, only rejuvelacuses sprouted grains instead of the wash.

o Patrick

June 3, 2013 at 4:31 am - Reply...

Hi Mike,Great comment! It brings up something I learned from Gil. Focus on the

principles at work, and then there are all kinds ways you can tweak these recipes.

In the case of the rice wash, the idea is that the liquid is full of dissolvedcarbohydrates, that attract microbes from the air and environment. These multiplyand fermentation occurs. Then you inundate with lactose (milk) to select forlactobacillus, which is present along with lots of other microbes.

So with the rejuvelac, you cut the quinoa sprouts and soak them in water right?

That would be your carbohydrate source. It attracts microbes and fermentationoccurs. Then you‘d use milk to select for lactobacillus. I think that would workgreat as a substitute for rice wash! I also saw on that page you sent, that rejuvelacis used as a digestive aid. That‘s a good indication there are lacto bacteria present.As long as they are there, the milk will ensure they dominate and you end up witha nice lactobacillus serum.

Anita L. Molijon







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejuvelac












June 8, 2013 at 1:57 am - Reply...

Hello Sir Gil how are you. I am your student when you were having Training inATI_RTC X, Irasan, Zamboanga del Norte. I am very thankful you posted this importanttopic on Lactubacillus Serum. As trainer it would be of great help talking of Organic

Agriculture which the Philippine Government promotes today. Lean

June 9, 2013 at 3:49 am - Reply...

I doubted, but now i believe. =) Very effective in eliminating foul odors when used withdbs in pigpens and organic waste decomposes faster.

o Patrick

June 10, 2013 at 1:46 pm - Reply...

Haha! Great comment, that made me laugh. I was exactly like that initially – veryskeptical. I‘m glad you tried it out and were able to see it‘s effectiveness. I‘vecome to the point I use it around the house as an air freshener. Lacto is justamazing, it has so many uses and has never disappointed me.

Chelsa


Hello, I love reading your information and learning more through thecomments! Will you please explain how you use lacto in the house as anair freshener?

Patrick


Oh yeah, I love that application. Just a normal spray bottle, I like touse a nice bottle that makes very fine mist – the finer the better.Then fill it with water/lacto mixture. The lacto is very dilute in this

application 1-3tsp/gal. Then just mist everywhere in your house.Everywhere. Here in the tropics the house can get smelly fast, andthat just does the trick.

scozans

June 16, 2013 at 3:00 am - Reply...



























Hi Sir Patrick and Sir Gil,

I just started to make the serum and now on the 3rd day of lacto+milk. I already noticedon the 2nd day that the curds are already separating from the yellowish liquid below.Does that mean i‘m on the right track? I tend to open the container where the lacto+milk

is fermenting twice a day to release the CO2 but this makes my mixture aerobic. Does themixture strictly needs to be anaerobic? Will it deminish the effectiveness of the serum if icontinuosly let O2 in before the fermentation is finished?

Thanks a lot. Very very interesting site!

o Patrick

June 19, 2013 at 7:19 am - Reply...

Hi Scozans,

Don‘t worry you can crack the lid to let the air out when it builds up. Best to havean airloc k that lets air out but not in, but that‘s ok. It will still work just fine. Youare on the right track, you‘ll be able to strain the curds off at the end and you‘llhave your lactobacillus serum!

Thanks for your interest in our site!

Cheers,Patrick

scozansJune 19, 2013 at 12:30 pm - Reply...

Thanks for the reply, Patrick.

Because I thought the lacto+milk mixture must be anaerobic, I madeanother batch but this time I put them in a container with a check valve tolet the CO2 out and no O2 in. I noticed on the 2nd day the curds and wheyhas already separated but unlike my first batch, this batch has the curds atthe bottom and the yellowish liq uid on top. Now I‘m confused, when my

set up is aerobic, the curds are on top and when I made it anaerobic thecurds are at the bottom – which batch is good and correct? By the way, thesecond batch is on its 3rd day.

By the way, I already extracted some serum from my first batch and usedit to unclog out sink and viola it work immediately! I also used it on mydog cages for remove the odor and its very effective! My wife loved whatI did! Hehehe!











Thanks again.

Kampay!scozans

Patrick

June 19, 2013 at 1:11 pm - Reply...

Hi Scozans,

That‘s great to hear! Sounds like the first batch turned out fine.Yeah, it‘s amazing how well it works for bad smells, just amazing.And how fast it works!

Lactobacillus are facultative anaerobes. That means they don‘t

REQUIRE anaerobic conditions, it‘s just that those conditions are best since they do very well whereas many other bacteria do not. Alittle oxygen won‘t ruin a batch, just don‘t go sticking a bubbler inthere, hah.

Hmm that‘s odd the curds are on the bottom. The curds are madeup of fats and proteins, they should float on top of the whey.Anyway don‘t worry about it, just wait until it‘s done fermentingand then strain out the liquid. You should still have a good qualitylactobacillus serum. This recipe is pretty forgiving in myexperience. If you spray and it doesn‘t kill the smell, might want to

make a new batch . karen

June 28, 2013 at 9:04 am - Reply...

Hi Patrick,

how can we tell if the batch actually is LABS? the rice wash had very little separationand i failed to smell it and went ahead with the rest of the procedure.

love!Karen

o Patrick

June 29, 2013 at 12:57 pm - Reply...

Hi Karen,















It should taste sour – that‘s the acidity that indicates the lactobacillus have been atwork metabolizing the sugars and consequently lowering the pH. That‘s fine ifyou didn‘t test the rice wash – that is just there to introduce a rich population ofmicrobes to the milk.

Test the final product – dilute it according to the recipe, then spray it to kill badsmells fast. Use it to increase compost pile turnover. Take a tbsp/meal to helpdigestion, kill that afternoon lull we all get around 3-4pm. Ferment your animalfeeds for a couple days before feeding the animals and watch them growsignificantly faster. The uses for this are just awesome.

Cheers,Patrick

Ruth Elin Maramba

July 1, 2013 at 2:39 am - Reply... Hi sir.Good Day! I will conduct a study on growth and yield of cucumber applied withlactobacillus-based probiotics as liquid fertilizer. Is it advisable to use this microbes oncucumber?? Thanks sir!

o Patrick

July 1, 2013 at 5:10 am - Reply...

Hi Ruth,I would be interested in seeing how it affects organic fertilizers. You could haveone control (water only) trial, one organic fertilizer trial, and one organic fertilizer+ lacto trial. I think you‘d see good results from that experiment as long as youkeep the dosages pretty light.

This would work fine with cucumber plants, you could also try Sitao or Baguio beans. Am I correct in assuming you are in the Philippines? What kind of study isthis? For school?

I love experiments, it is so much fun being a scientist. Good luck with whateveryou decide, and have fun!

Patrick

Ruth Elin Maramba

August 1, 2013 at 10:33 am - Reply...







http://yahoo.com/

http://yahoo.com/





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Yes sir! This will be my thesis. Hope it will work well. Hehe. I‘m just in alittle doubt about my lactobacillus culture, how can i make sure if it isalready fermented and ready to apply to the crop sir? Hope you responseimmediately sir. Thank you!

Ruth Elin Maramba


Yes sir! This will be my thesis. Hope it will work well. Hehe. I‘m just in alittle doubt sir about my lactobacillus culture, how can i make sure that itis already fermented and ready to apply to the crop? Hope you responseimmediately sir. Thank you!

Patrick


You should see curds on top and a yellowish whey below. Otherthan that just wait the prescribed time and you should be good – ifyou leave it too long no problem.

Ben Rho

July 5, 2013 at 11:31 pm - Reply...

Hi Patrick, this site is awesome! i will be starting an organic layer farm soon and i‘m

really worried about the odor and the flies. will this concoction work in controlling fliesas well? also, would it be OK to use this together with cultivated indigenous microorganisms?

Warm Regards from Mindanao,

Ben

o Patrick

July 8, 2013 at 10:44 am - Reply...

Hey Ben, hello from Manila! Have you heard of Gil Carandang before? He‘s a pretty big name here in the Philippines. Join our mailing list and keep in touch!There will be updates on Gil‘s workshops and products there. To answer yourquestions:

Yes, lacto will work wonders on manure smell – eats it right up at the microbiallevel. Once the smell is gone the flies will no longer be an issue – the smell draws

http://yahoo.com/

http://yahoo.com/

















http://yahoo.com/



them. Spray the barnyard, pens, feeder, everything with the lacto solution.Reapply as necessary. You know you can also use it to treat the chicken feed – soak the feed in a lacto solution for 1-3 days before feeding to the birds – it isamazing for health and growth!

We use lacto in the BIM solution, it‘s fine to combine with indigenous microbes.

Let me know if any questions, and let us know how it goes on the farm!Patrick

Ben Rho

July 14, 2013 at 8:15 am - Reply...

Hi Patrick!

quick question, i added 10 parts milk last night to my fermented ricewash.. just now when i checked curds have already developed and belowis a water like substance. does this mean that it is ready for harvest alreadyor do i really need to wait for a week or so? how do we know if it is readysince in your instructions temperature plays a very important role in the

process and it‘s quite warm here these da ys

Warm regards,

Ben

PatrickJuly 17, 2013 at 4:55 am - Reply...

I would still wait the week or so.. The curds will get thicker asmore fat/protein separate out from the whey. It should reachstability when the curd raft on top is no longer getting thicker.Then it is ready. It‘s kind of a judgement call when you think it‘sdone though. You‘re right in a really warm climate it will be faster,

but leaving it a little long is no problem, within reason. Forexample if you notice curds after 1-2 days, maybe harvest after 5

days just to be sure it‘s run it‘s course, but still a little faster thanthe 1 week you‘d wait in a cooler climate.

Ben Rho

July 18, 2013 at 12:58 pm -











Thanks Patrick! i‘ll make a new batch.. i think mine went bad it smelled foul. this time i‘ll wait a bit longer. thanks

Ben

Ben

August 8, 2013 at 7:15 am -

Hi Patrick.. just want to report back my second batchwas perfect! thanks so much! im on my 5th batch now!thanks thanks!

Patrick

August 10, 2013 at 6:54 am -

That‘s awesome Ben! Glad to hear it. Now you have lactoyou can play around with all the ways to use it!

Ben

August 8, 2013 at 7:25 am -

Hi Patrick.. im just curious.. would it be possible for othergood microbes like yeast and other good guys to be in the

serum? or the milk dissuaded them from proliferating aswell. thanks

Ben

Patrick

August 10, 2013 at 7:00 am -

Hi Ben,

Great question! Well the idea according to Gil is to use therice wash to attract a wide range of beneficial microbes.Then you add the milk, and the abundance of lactosefacilitates the dominance of lactobacillus spp. But, whilethey don‘t multiply, the others will go dormant and persis tin the serum. When conditions favor growth for them again(like when you dilute and apply to a compost pile), theywill come out of dormancy.



Cheers,Patrick

Joe

July 6, 2013 at 3:20 pm - Reply...

Your recipe calls for letting the rice wash water sit for a week or so, then mixing it with20 parts water. I however, had to leave on a trip and left my rice wash water sitting in a

jar for the past 23 days. I‘m wondering if I ruined it by letting it sit for too long? Or is itstill good? Also, when I returned from my trip, I noticed the wash turned from milkywhite to a clear yellowish color. Is this what we‘re trying to aim for? Thanks.

Joe

July 7, 2013 at 4:48 pm - Reply...

Sorry, I meant mixing 1 part Lacto to 10 parts milk (was thinking about the mix ratio ofgrow fertilizer to water).

o Patrick

July 8, 2013 at 10:46 am - Reply...

Hey Joe,

I think your rice wash will be fine. The color sounds great there is nothing wrong

with that. Is it separated into layers? You‘ll want the yellowish f luid on the bottom or middle layer to add to the milk. Let me know how it goes..

Patrick

Adam

July 8, 2013 at 12:01 am - Reply...

Hi I am experiencing some problems with getting my milk/rice wash to turn intolacto/whey. I wait until i have ―activity in my rice wash then combine milk and rice

wash and leave in a warm dark cupboard (lid not on tight) and the last batch never progressed and the milk went off after 10 days. After 4 days i even added some of thelacto serum from a previous batch to help get it started and that didnt seem to help. Theareas is not hot say 17-22C. My first two batches worked great, can you help as to what imay be doing wrong!?

o Patrick



















July 8, 2013 at 10:51 am - Reply...

Hey Adam,

Tough one, hard to say without being there looking at it. Well the milk should go

―off in terms of curdling, but if you‘ve made previous batches already then youknow what I mean. I guess it could be not warm enough but I think 17-22 would be adequate. What does it look like exactly? It‘s not forming curds on top andwhey below? Also, completely anaerobic is best. You might try sprinkling oat

bran or rice bran on top of the milk to keep it anaerobic.

Patrick

Adam

July 9, 2013 at 4:41 am - Reply...

Thanks Patrick, I will try the oat bran. I guess it looks like a stuckfermentation (similar to when you make beer). It has lots of tiny bubbleson the surface and a slight off smell but the first two batches were all doneand complete within 3-5 days (with same temp range). I have closed thelid on the container so hope that assists with the process. I am using store

bought milk and can access large quantities of raw milk from a diary butdidn‘t want to go down that path UNTIL i have this issue sorted! My ricewash is kept in the same room but just on the bench with paper towel overthe glass jar lid. The lacto is made in a 5Lt plastic container with sufficienthead space. I also make my kefir in the same cupboard and that works

fine! All a little perplexing after the first two batches went great guns! Theonly thing i can think of is that the rice wash hasn‘t attracted sufficientlacto bacteria to get it started even though the rice wash had a film layer atthe top? Can you restart the fermentation process (say like beer) by addingmore yeast (aka lacto serum) from a previous batch? apologies for the beeranalogy but that‘s what it seems like to me? RegardsAdam

Adam

July 9, 2013 at 4:43 am - Reply...

With regards to what it looks like….There has been no separationand the mixture is still all the same milky colour (apart from the

bubbles on the surface. RegardsAdam

Patrick















July 11, 2013 at 7:55 am -

Weird. There should be curds on top. Are you using skimmilk??? Ha ha.. I would throw it and try again withdifferent milk, sorry for t he lame advice but I don‘t know if

saving it would work. Add some lacto and give it a day ortwo if you want to try, but anaerobic processes can betricky and you can end up with bad microbes if you‘re notcareful.

For the rice wash, did it form three layers and smell a littlesour? If temperature permits, leave it outside when it‘sfermenting.

Well hope it gets back on track next time! There is no better source than raw milk whether cow goat sheep

whatever. If you can use fresh dairy milk that‘ll be best. Otherwise a nice fatty non-UHT store-bought milk shouldwork fine.

Adam

July 12, 2013 at 11:03 pm - Reply...

Hi Gil & Patrick,no luck with the last batch of lacto, I have put it down to insufficient microbes in my ricewash to start with. It‘s winter hear so obviously not enough bacteria being active etc….or

didn‘t leave wash long enough to generate some lab. My question relates to this point.Can I inoculate the rice wash with some lab to help it kick off? I have some in a spray bottle that I use as a deodoriser?some anecdotal feedback, all our animals are on lacto and the results are amazing, it‘swinter here, chickens are fat, full of feathers and looking very good, the dogs use to emitfoul smells after eating canned dog food ( used if we ran out of there normal feed) butthey too have put on weight and no back-end smells. we also have horses, the weanlingfoals are in excellent condition and the brood mares who are back in foal have never gonethrough a winter in such great condition. they all have energy to burn as well.I also have found a source of RAW milk so will now go into large scale

production…hahaha, and now collecting buckets of fis h guts to make my fish emulsionfertiliser.Thanks for the info and the great website.

o Patrick

July 13, 2013 at 10:59 am - Reply...











Hmm normally they rise to the top but that‘s ok. As long as i t separated into curdsand whey you should be good. You kept it anaerobic during fermentation?

Yeah the dogs should love the cheese, and it should be a great digestive aid! Iwould limit how much you give them though I think too much will cause

diarrhea. Drew

July 23, 2013 at 5:10 pm - Reply...

Greetings, Pat!

It‘s been a while since I posted last. We‘ve recently started raising chickens and I was wondering about fermenting their feed. How much LAB are we talking about using toferment the feed? We don‘t want to use enough to make the feed mush, right? We‘re not

actually soaking the feed, just spraying enough in and mixing to coat evenly? And is itwise to mix up large batches of inoculated feed, or only enough for a few days worth offeeding?

And on a side note, I just wanted to testify as to the deodorizing power of LAB serum. Iam building compost piles this year. About one every 7-10 days. Without going into a lota detail, the vegetable/fruit materials that I use come in plastic garbage bags andinvariably have lots of holes in them. During storage awaiting composting, sometimesthings would begin to liquefy and leak out of the bag and soak into the carpet that coversthe floor of the hot storage shed, making a BIG stink. One spray of LAB on the rug andin less than 24 yours (closer to 12 I‘d say), there is no odor to speak of. None! It really

works! We use it on the floor of the chicken coop (hay) as well. Thanks so much forsharing this wonderful knowledge with the world.

o Patrick

July 24, 2013 at 4:46 am - Reply...

Hey Drew, nice to hear from you again! I do still have your suggestions for thesite in my back pocket. Progress on the site is kinda slow now that I have theweekly Flog to keep up, but I will be rolling out updates as I can.

Regarding your questions, I haven‘t personally don e chicken feed fermenting, justthe pig feed. With the pigs we would soak the food until it is pretty well re-hydrated. But that is for pigs, which will just gobble up whatever slop you put intheir feeders. I imagine for chickens you wouldn‘t use quite as much water, youwouldn‘t make it mushy like you said. But you should still use enough to make itquite damp, so it doesn‘t just dry out. There is no rule here, play around with itand see how it works for you. Also, remember this is with very diluted LAB.After the pure serum is diluted 20x with water, you add 1tbsp of that to a gallon of











water and use that water to wet the feed. Of course you can use stronger mix butthis dilution is enough to get the job done.

You don‘t want it sitting too long – I‘d sug gest 3 days as a general guideline (youcan do more or less no problem though). For the pigs we use 3 barrels, and feed

the third barrel each day, refill it and move it back to position 1. That way the pigsalways eat 3-day fermented food. You can do the same thing with the chickenfeed. Or if you don‘t want to mess with that you can just use one ferment bucketand refill it every 3 days. Feed out of that each day and they will get progressivelymore fermented food.

Pretty awesome deodorizing effect right? You should spray your compost pileswith LAB too, you should see faster composting and less flies. Also, spraying thefruit in the bags wouldn‘t hurt – if they‘re sitting there a few days might as wellget them started, haha. Anyway I know that‘s more wor k for you, these are justsuggestions if you have the time/inclination. Cheers and happy composting – let

me know if any questions with the above. Joseph

July 28, 2013 at 1:07 pm - Reply...

Hi Patrick and Gil. First I‘d like you to know that I‘m extremely grateful for all theknowledge you‘re sharing with us. My question is this: I am experimenting with analternative LAB serum without rice wash. I have collected different weeds from mygarden and fermented them, just as you would make Kimchi or sauerkraut,i.e. I put theweeds in a jar filled with brine, without exposing the weeds to the air in the jar. After 10

days, the fermentation had finished, since it tasted acidic. My question is: should I diluteit the same way the standard LAB serum is diluted? Do I need to add sugar to stabilize it?The reason that I chose this alternative version, is that fermenting vegetables is quite easyfor me, while t he rice wash method wasn‘t succesful for some reason.

Regards,Joseph

o Patrick

July 29, 2013 at 5:52 am - Reply...

Hi Joseph,

Welcome, thanks for joining the conversation, sign up for our mailing list too ifyou want. Good question here I‘ll have to ask Gil about it. My main concernwould be the amount of salt. Too much salt affects the osmotic balance of waterin the soil and makes nutrients very h ard for plant roots to take up. I haven‘t

practiced that style of fermentation so can‘t comment on it too much. I‘ll ask Gil











o Patrick

July 29, 2013 at 3:53 am - Reply...

Hmmm tough one.. I got a microscope for this reason, but I‘m pretty into this

stuff needless to say. I‘m sure there‘s an easy way…but all I can think of now isadding some to sugar water in a sealed container and checking gas pressure thenext day(or two). If there is gas buildup then your culture is still good to go – themicrobes you introduced have started eating the sugar and produced gas as

byproduct of metabolism.

Annie

August 1, 2013 at 9:38 pm - Reply...

Hi Patrick, Bryan taught me how to do LAB and tne IMOs, its amazing what the soil in

my garden like now. So beautifully loose and the plants are doing so well. I am intomaking all the recipes you have printed here and waiting impatiently for them to be readyfor use. Thanks go to Gil, Bryan and you.

o Patrick


Wow, that‘s great to hear! Thanks for the support and enthusiasm. Pretty coolright? I think so too.

AnnieAugust 6, 2013 at 5:16 am - Reply...

Patrick, I heard Gil in a seminar he conducted in Hawaii where he explained how to makethe LAB. In his talk, he said when he makes the LAB, he adds equal parts molasses to theserum (whey). The he said in order to make it go further, he adds to that concoction 20

parts water. Does this still stand? Can I add 20 parts water after mixing the whey withmolasses or is that step now defunct? My prepration will be ready on the 8th or 9thAugust, would appreciate a reply by then? Thanks patrick, am I rushing you?

o PatrickAugust 6, 2013 at 6:31 am - Reply...

Hi Annie, yep you still add 20 parts water, that is there in the recipe, at the start ofthe ―how to use section. You can still store it after adding 20 parts water. For me,I keep a bottle of the undiluted serum+sugar handy, then add 1.5 tbsp from that to























However there was a tinge of yellow in the serum that was a lotlighter than previous batches.

The only difference is this time I used raw milk, which I willcontinue to d o from now on. I don‘t think the color is a big deal as

you mentioned. Patrick

August 10, 2013 at 8:03 am -

Yeah exactly Henry, you‘ll see little variations like thatdepending on what ingredients you use. The raw milk willdo that – the more fat and protein in the milk used, thethicker and denser the curds on top.

Kristen


Hello- I am on the 7th day of the milk fermentation process and it smells horrible! At thetime of creation I did not have detailed instructions, so used ―serum from rice water thatdid not have 3 layers in it AND I just covered the rice water/milk liquid with acheesecloth. I have it in a cabinet and can smell it when I am in the same room! I keepthinking that it will go away, but not happening. Would either of these contribute to theodor? Should I start over? THANKS! Kristen

o PatrickAugust 15, 2013 at 9:13 am - Reply...

Hmm, it shouldn‘t smell very much. Does it form curds? I would probably startover following the recipe just to be on the safe side, sorry

Kristen


Thanks Patrick- I figured that would be the answer so am all set with somefresh raw milk. I still have the original mixture- it seems to smell moresour now as opposed to just plain bad! There are about 1″ of curd s on top!Does that mean it has some potential? I am going to use it as a compostenhancer, so I guess it can‘t hurt anything. Thanks for the reply!

Patrick
















oh yeah, that sounds pretty good now. It should be fine as compostactivator..

Henry


Greetings Patrick,

I would like a little clarification if you please. In just about every use the mix is 2 TBSP. per liter. The question is this. As a water drench to plants in containers do you use 8TBSP. per gallon or 1-2 TBSP. per gallon?

Many thanks!

o Patrick


Hi Henry,

As a soil drench I think 1- 2tbsp/gal would be fine. It doesn‘t need to be asconcentrated for that application.

Cheers,

Patrick Annie


Patrick, can I pick your mathematical brain please? I have very limited space in myapartment to store 20 bottles of LAB. I made the latest batch from fresh milk for friendsand family. In its undiluted form, if I use 1T of pure LAB, how much water should I addin order to consume it? Thank you for not asking me to use my calculator.

o Patrick


Here‘s what I do Annie, it‘s easier to do it this way:

I store 1 500ml bottle of pure serum out. I have a second 500ml bottle that‘sempty. Fill that with water + 1.5tbsp of the pure serum, that‘s your 1:20 dilution.























Then keep that bottle in the fridge and use it (diluted properly) in all your dailyapplications. For instance, add 1-2tbsp to 1L water and use as odor killer.

Hope that helps,Patrick

Ricky


Hi,

Would just like to ask about the ―Aid Compost as one of the many uses that you havementioned, do you already have the detailed post about it. If yes, would you please sharethe link. I am planning to start composting at home, I believe that information will reallyhelp.

Thank you in advance.

Regards,Ricky

o Patrick


Hi Ricky,

Great! You‘re interested in composting using it! That‘s fun.. I just did thatrecently but it was a small batch of compost. The materials to be composted werevery dry so I needed to add water until the compost was the right moisture content(around 65%). Rather than plain water I used water with lacto at a rate of 1-2tbsp/L. Actually for my compost I used water with homemade fish fertilizer,grow fertilizer and BIM mixed in. But for the purposes of this example let‘s

pretend it was lacto.

But your compost might be a lot bigger pile. In that case you can dilute the lactomore (to make it go further), no problem. Or if the pile does n‘t need any water,

just wait till it dries out a bit, then when it needs water+turning in, mix lacto withthe water you‘re using.

In any case, when you start the pile you can mist it with a 1-2tbsp/L mix tointroduce the microbes.

You can join our mailing list and you‘ll get the post on this through email when Icome out with it.











Cheers,Patrick

Ricky


Thanks Patrick, this is helpful. Yes, just joined.

Would also like to ask -(sorry this may not be the right venue but I have tried to use yourfeedback form and for some reason it was not working) – if Herbana farm is selling the

products from the Recipes that are listed in this site. I am specifically interested withBIM, and Neem extract, and also Bokashi which I plan to try also for anaerobiccomposting (not listed here but I saw the recipe from Gil‘s Grow Your Own IMO pdf).

Thanks again.

Ricky

o Patrick


Yep, they are all for sale. I think the easiest way to get is the Salcedo marketevery Saturday in Salcedo Village..

Frédérique


Hi I‘ve tried the lactobacillus serum recipe.But I‘m not sure if it is good or bad.When Iwent to collect the lacto-bacillus serum 1part serum/10 part milk after 10 days of it sittingon the top of my fridge there where little maggots stock in the curd and a few dead onesarround my container.Is this normal? or does it mean I have a bad batch?Thanks in advance for your reply and thanks for all the usefull informations on this website.

Fred

o Patrick


That‘s ok. I would cover it next time so flies don‘t get in and lay eggs, but havingthem in there is fine.



















Hi! I make my own yogurt and get whey as a byproduct. Can I use it as prescribed here oris it a lot different from the whey I would get if I follow your recipe to the letter?

o Patrick


You know I‘m not sure Maita, I‘m not sure how your whey is.. But I‘d just followthe recipe here and see how it turns out! Should be interesting to compare them!Let us know what you find. Cheers!

Patrick

Tristan


Hello Gil and Patrick! your site is very informative! I have question regarding theformation of the curds. After 6 days after doing procedures 5-7, on 1 container, I saw agreenly and reddish color on top of the curd. And on the other container it is like a driedcurd of top turning kinda yellowish red. Can I still use the liquid below the curd? I‘m justwondering because when I first made my LABS, all the curds were white.Also, after mixing the pure lactic acid bacteria serum and molasses, is it natural to have afilm (like molds) on top of it? I just observed that the one pour into an airtight containerdid not have these. But the other container (5 gallon with faucet) produced a film likemolds.

Thank you so much and more power!o Patrick


Hmm, are they molds? Green and black molds are bad – toss if you see those.

The dried top part of the curd is ok, it just dried out sounds like. How long haveyou left them out with curds formed? Maybe you need to drain them off faster.

I wouldn‘t store t he lacto+molasses in a container with a lot of air spacegenerally. After you mix with molasses, try to put in an airtight container withoutmuch room at the top for air.

Hope this helps and thanks for joining up!Patrick

Tristan
















Nope its not green and black molds its like brown molds. maybe it formswhen I pour it in a container with lots of air space.

I left them out for about 6 days. Usually after 2 days curds are formed butI wait for at least 6 days as per instructions in the manual. Is it ok toharvest the liquid after 3-4 days after the curds were formed on the 2ndday? Also, the dried part of the curd is ok, but how about with the top partof the curd that has green and red color? Is it bad to harvest the liquid

below?

The first batch I made, when I pour it in an air tight container I left at least50% air. I open it everyday to release the pressure it produced. If I fill thecontainer with no much air in it, wouldn‘t it explode?

Thank you so much for answering my questions! =) Patrick

October 23, 2013 at 5:46 am - Reply...

Hey Tristan,

Yep it‘s fine to harvest after 3 -4 days if you feel it‘s ready then.Hmm if there is obvious green mold on top, the powdery greenmold, I‘d toss it if you‘re planning to drink it. If it‘s for the garden

or compost p ile I wouldn‘t worry as much. If the green is justdiscoloration I wouldn‘t worry so much either. Anyway harvestquicker if you feel it‘s ready that should help.

Actually if you leave less airspace it shouldn‘t build up as much pressure. Some law of physics I forget off the top of my head, butless space is better.

Hope this helps. Sorry for the late reply just got back fromvacation.

Patrick nik amin

November 27, 2013 at 11:25 am - Reply...

Hello Gil,Patrick and Tristan! your site is very informative! I havequestion regarding the formation of the curds. After 3 days after















doing procedures 5-7, on 1 container, I saw a white and reddishcolor on top of the curd, Can I still use the liquid below the curd?why the change in color? I‘m just wondering because when I firstmade my LABS, all the curds were white.

And on the other container the curd is only beginning to hardenafter 7 days,the color is white though, what probably went wrong?

Tristan tq for sharing

Tq for your kind advice

Patrick

November 28, 2013 at 2:08 am -

The color change is ok, it just got some mold/bacterialgrowth on top. Watch for green or black mold, those aregenerally pathogenic and you need to discard if you seethat. In this case you can still use the liquid below the curdno problem.

Cheers,Patrick

Annie

August 26, 2013 at 5:16 am - Reply... Patrick, I have an important question to ask. If you don‘t know the answer, I woulddeeply appreciate asking Gil? How do you use the whey before you add the molasses? Iknow you add 1-1 then 1-20 then use 1 -2 or 3T to a L of water. How does Gil advice

people who want to cut out the molasses and use the ―whey ? I know he did say it was anexpensive method and that it will last 6 months in the ‗fridge. Thank yo u. At the momentI drink 1 T in 8 ozs water. I would like to try it without the molasses.

o Patrick

October 30, 2013 at 6:44 am - Reply... If you don‘t add molasses, like you said first make sure you store it in the fridge.Then, I‘d just cut the dosage in half. So use 0.5T in 8oz water. You can use moreor less there is no rule on this. Experiment and see what works for you. But forstarters I‘d do that, just cut your dose in half.

Mary











September 3, 2013 at 6:00 am - Reply...

Hi, I‘m interested in Bokashi and searching through the Internet led me to you. Thankyou very much for sharing. Your website is very informative and I think your recipe isthe simplest that I found. I take composting seriously and I keep one in my tiny balcony. I

plan to use the serum to help speed up my compost. I‘m just wondering… Where can one buy molasses in the Philippines? Also, is this serum like homemade Yakult? (Does ittaste the same?) I‘m sorry if my questions sound silly, but your reply will be greatlyappreciated. Maraming salamat po.

o Patrick


Hi Mary,

That‘s great to hear about your composting efforts even on your small balcony.You don‘t have to use molasses, it is kinda hard to find here in the Phil‘s except in bulk for farming. You can use brown sugar, like muscovado that is readily availhere.

Yep, this serum is like Yakult but better! Higher diversity of beneficial microbes.Hahaha I‘m sorry to say it taste s nothing like Yakult, the taste takes some gettingused to. I love it but my wife hates the taste no matter how many times we take it.

Cheers,Patrick

Deano


Can you give me an idea of the ratio of curds to whey that I can expect after combiningthe initial rice wash culture with the 10 parts milk? I am about to mix the twocomponents in a 4.5 liter/gallon demi john, and would like an idea of the size ofcontainer(s) that I will need when I mix the whey with molasses.ThanksDeano

o Patrick


Hi Deano,







http://sustainablesmallholding.org/















Sorry for the la te reply I‘ve been away.. The amount of curds really depends onthe milk you use. Curds are protein and fat essentially and so the fattier the milkthe thicker the curds. But in any case you should have more than half whey atleast when finished.

Thanks,Patrick

linda

September 18, 2013 at 9:23 pm - Reply...

Hi,I just found this site & was wondering if you could help me. I recently learned how tomake the LAB culture in same way as your recipe above & am wildly in love with it.Among many other things I have found it is excellent as a treatment for my hands which

suffer problems caused by using detergents and I want my daughter to try it on her acne but unless I can get it to smell good she would never go near it (you described a ‗sour‘type smell above but mine smells more like cheese – I have pure serum in the fridge, nomolasses or sugar in it). I just don‘t know what I can put in it to make it s mell goodwithout risking killing it, for example herbs & essential oils are generally antimicrobialwhich would completely defeat the purpose. Do you have any ideas or suggestions?Thanks

o Patrick

November 21, 2013 at 9:52 pm - Reply...

Hi Linda,

Great to hear you are enjoying the serum, that is awesome it works for yourhands, what a great application.

That is a great question about the smell..let me think.. You can dilute the pureserum a lot and the smell will be much more tolerable but also the effectivenesswill probably decrease I guess. You could also apply to only the affected areas asa spot treatment and it would n‘t be as bothersome.. Neither of these is a goodsolution though.

You might try something acidic since it shouldn‘t harm the acid tolerant lacto too badly… like lemonjuice? lemon juice is a known anti -bacterial because of theacidity but I don‘t think th at will affect lacto as much, might help the smell. Hardto say, everything smelly I can think of is anti- bacterial…Good luck, let me knowif you find something!

Hermann












It‘s not entirely true that plans don‘t utilize organic constituents as new research suggests. Plants can also digest larger molecules and even entire bacteria.This knowledge is absolutely groundbreaking. Read for yourself.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011915 o Patrick


Hermann,

That is one of the most interesting journals I‘ve read! Wow! That is crazy!Specific, localized, cellular level interactions between plant roots and microbes inwhich the plants deliberately weaken the root wall to bring in microbes and

subsequently digest them for Nitrogen. That is wild. You might see thisregurgitated in the Flog one of these days, that is really cool stuff.

Thanks for sharing!Patrick

Ben Cains


Hey there

Hypothetically if I was to drink the LAB what dilution would I use?

I skimme d through the posts and didn‘t see any info?

Thanks for your time

o Patrick


So you have the serum+molasses right. Then you dilute that 1:20 with water andkeep this in the fridge. I drink 1tbsp of that in a glass of water after each meal.Works like a charm.

alex





http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011915






















I bought cheapest human probiotic capsules with lactobacillus(10 caps for 2.5$),tossed em in a bottle with 1 liter of milk and 2 tbsp of dextrose.I taped a baloon on the top of the bottle to keep the bottle closed airtightand to have room left for gasses that will be released,as the balloon will inflate.Hopefully,in 7-10 days,lactobacillus will multiply.

I dont have experience with this method,so I am realy hoping on some comments orsugestionsI am t rying this because it‘s 10 times cheaper for me, maple sirup and brown sugar are quite the expense when trying to conserve,and here onthe other hand you buy capsuled colonies and just activate them with dextrose andmultiply them in milk.And it‘s stored easier and more convenient to use,you dont have to time making yourserum weeks ahead,if you need it right now,you can simply make stronger concentration

by puting more capsules in the water with dextrose and wait for a couple ofhours(6-12hours?not sure on this one,but not too long I think) untill they activate andserum should be ready for use,and i would guess in a much higher concentration then the

home-grown stuff.Once again,comments and sugestions are apreciated,since i just startedtesting this method.Use at your own risk ;p

o alex


I think this actualy worked and it took only 4 days.There is no milk,only a layer of thick curds floating on a yellow(ish) liquid.Bottle is warm and steamy from the inside so the soup feels like its preety active,

baloon inflated only a little bit.I will strain this and use as instructed above(1:20),and use dextrose as food for leftover concentrate.Any comments on this method? I am not sure what I‘ve grown here,only guessingthat it should be LactoBacillus and hoping for the best.Peace.

o alex


edit on my first post,because its badly written:i opened one capsule of probiotic and poured content of it into 1L of milk,not the whole pack of 10 capsules.

Patrick
















Hey Alex,

Great method! That is really interesting. Yeah, I don‘t see why it wouldntwork. I‘m not sure about the diversity as leaving ricewash out attracts awide range of microbes, out of which you multiply the lactobacilli using

milk. But in terms of a lacto serum, I think this is great! I‘m not sure ifadding more capsules would accelerate the process but that would beinteresting to see.

If you can find any sugar source for cheap where you are, I‘d recommendusing that to stabilize your serum once you‘ve strained it out. Any glucose,fructose, dextrose, all the simple carbs would work.

Sorry for the late reply I‘m still catching up after being away. Nice workthough, great method!

Patrick shawn

October 23, 2013 at 7:00 pm - Reply...

been making lacto-serum for a month. noticed the last batch of 20 liters didn‘t separate.curds/yogurt were mixed with the serum. It was very difficult but not impossible toseparate the serum from the curds. used cheese cloth to squeeze the serum out…wow ittook a long time to do this process. any ideas on how to get a better separation of curdsand serum?

thanks from brasil

shawn

o Patrick


I think i answered this in email, things are a little disjointed since I got back butuse the contact form if you‘re still having these issues..

Hanson

October 24, 2013 at 11:15 pm - Reply...

hello! thank you for posting this in your website. after the whole process, how can i preserve the lacto+molasses mixture? how long is the shelf life? avoid sunlight? air tightcontainer?















thank you

o Patrick


lacto+molasses you can leave out as long as it‘s sealed without much airspace, itwill keep that way for a good long time(years). Keep out of direct sunlight and inairtight container, yes. Once you open it and start using, it‘s recommended to keepin fridge.

nik amin


Dear Patrick and Gil,

Great website.

Can I mix Lacto plus with bloom fertiliser, grow fertiliser and BIM together? before orafter dilution with water? what is the best ratio? what are the best plant and fruit to use?

I want to use it for my paddy farm, kindly advice,keep up the great work, tqvm forhelping me in particular and mother earth in general.

o nik amin


Dear Patrick and Gil,

Great website.

Can I mix Lacto plus with bloom fertiliser, grow fertiliser and BIM together? before or after dilution with water? what is the best ratio? what are the best plantand fruit to use?

I want to use it for my paddy farm, kindly advice,keep up the great work, tqvm

for helping me in particular and mother earth in general. Patrick


Hi Nik,



















You can mix any combination as long as overall dilution is about1tbsp/gal. Mix them all into the water, not together before mixing withwater. So for example in 5 gallons of water you would have 5tbsp offertilizers – any combination like maybe 2tbsp bloom, 1tbsp grow, 1tbspfish fert, 1tbsp lacto. BIM you only need a small amount since it is quite

concentrated, but adding more is fine.

Thanks,Patrick

rene


Patrick & Gil, thank you very for having a very informative and helpful site. I want to aska follow-up question on the fermenting of feeds. You mentioned, to be sure that the feeds

has no antibiotics as it will kill the microbes. What about toxin binders and moldinhibitors normally used in feeds? Will these not kill the microbes? Thanks in advanceand more power.

o Patrick


hmm I think those would be fine rene. If you are curious, take a sample of thefeed, put it in a sealable jar with sugar, water and lacto. Seal the jar and let it sitovernight. Crack it the next day and see if you hear a hiss. If there is built up gas

in there, then fermentation is going on. Give it a few days if you don‘t hear a hissright away. Anyway thats a super simple test to see if it is really fermenting.

rene


Thnx and more power, Patrick. Will do it.

John

November 11, 2013 at 11:22 am - Reply... Love all your info thank you.

One question, can you mix your different items in the same water if the dilution iscorrect. So to my 5 gallons of water could I add the BIM, lacto, and fish Hydrolyze (or

bloom/grow) to the same jug mix and water? Or do you suggest using them allseparately?



















o Patrick


Yep you can mix them all together no problem, I recommend it in fact. Just make

sure your dilution is correct. I don‘t usually mix more than 1tbsp/gal of any givennutrients. You could, just haven‘t had the need.

Loving it


Have you tried mixing the molasses in with the milk? I was thinking 1 part molasses for10 parts milk. My thoughts were that it would be a boost to the bacteria, don‘t know ifit‘s necessary with the lactose already present in the milk.

o Patrick


I wouldn‘t try that as it promotes all kinds bacteria. By adding the milk(lactosesource) you are giving the right bacteria(lactobacilli) the competitive advantage.If you add sugar you‘re leveling out the playing field again which in this case wedon‘t want.

Lee


Hi Patrick and Gil,

I am interested in trying out the lactobacillus serum. Do I just retain the water left overfrom the rice wash or do I leave the rice in the water during the initial stage?

Thank you.

Kind regards,Lee

o Patrick


Hi Lee,























Just use the water left over from the rice wash. You don‘t need to leave the rice inthe water.

Cheers,Patrick

nik amin


Hello Gil and Patrick! your site is very informative! I have question regarding theformation of the curds. After 3 days after doing procedures 5-7, on 1 container, I saw awhite and reddish color on top of the curd, Can I still use the liquid below the curd? whythe change in color? I‘m just wondering because when I first made my LABS, all thecurds were white.

And on the other container the curd is only beginning to harden after 7 days,the color iswhite though, what probably went wrong?

Tq for your kind advice

Rik

December 4, 2013 at 5:07 am - Reply...

Hello Patrick and Gil,

Thanks to your site I have learned a lot, specially on lacto serum. Just want to ask if myserum is filled with good bacteria. I mixed raw fresh milk to my rice wash, and havethick curd but white silky molds grew on top of it. I have not smelled any foul norvinegary odor on my batch. May I ask if it already accumulated enough lacto on it?

Hope you could guide me through this.

Thanks a lot.

o Patrick

December 8, 2013 at 5:59 am - Reply... Hi Rik,

That‘s great, white molds are no problem, that will happen sometimes. Just watchfor green/yellow/black molds, those are more likely to be pathogenic. If you havethick curds then the solution below should be nicely concentrated lacto! Soundslike you did it right!















Patrick

eulamae


Hello Sir,Great Job! God bless you! oh sir can is it safe to use in human?Eula

o Patrick


Hi Eula,

Thanks for the praise.. Yep, I take it every day, it is awesome for digestion andreally helps prevent gastro-intestinal upsets (LBM, haha)..

Cheers,Patrick

elsiehoreb


Hi Patrick

Great site.

Can the 1:20 LAB be used in bokashi bin to replace bokashi bran ? I would like to justspray the 1:20 LAB on the f ood scrap to be ―bokashi fermented . Do you think this willwork ? Tried very hard to get wheat bran (DIY bokashi mix) but can‘t get any around myarea in Malaysia.

Thanks

o Patrick


Hi Elsie,

Yeah really, it‘s impossible to find here in the Philippines either I went throughthat also. Good timing joining the mailing list! I‘m writing an article on Bokashirigh t now actually, it‘ll go up in a few weeks.







http://gilcarandang.com/recipes/lactobacillus-serum















Basically you can turn anything into ―bokashi bran – it doesn‘t even really haveto be a high carbon source, just can‘t be a simple carbohydrate source, it has to besomething ―substantial . Bokashi bran is jus t to ensure the right microbes

proliferate. Newspaper, sawdust, rice bran (our best equivalent to wheat bran herein asia) etc. I‘m making ‗bokashi bran‘ out of a mix of dog food, copra meal,

coffee grounds and carbonized rice hull right now – it will serve as dog food,cockroach food, and ‗bokashi bran‘ for the bokashi bin.

You are on the right track with the 1:20 LAB. Use that with sugar to inoculateyour ―bran – shredded papers, sawdust, rice bran, etc. Seal that up and let itferment, let the microbes multiply. After a few weeks you have your bran! Usethis in the bokashi bin – start the bin with a 2- 4″ layer of it, make sure the foodlayers are no more than 1″ thick, compress everything to make it as airtight as

possible – you know how it goes.

You ca n just spray the food with the 1:20 LAB if you‘re feeling lazy – that will

work. Add a little sugar to the sprayer when you do – help the microbes proliferate. Having ‗bran‘ just helps house the microbes and provide a ‗slow -release- LAB‘ system you know…

Cheers,Patrick

elsiehoreb


Thanks Patrick.So can I use coco peat to replace wheat bran? It is quite cheap. I can get it at less thanUSD 3 per big block.

Intend to slowly ―break loose the block and work with a manageable amount. Theninoculate with the LAB 1:20 + molasses (do I need to further dilute the 1:20 ?). Fermentairtight for 14 days, then sun dry it etc etc.

Will the coco peat work as a substitute for wheat bran ? If this works, I will be veryexcited.

Just sprayed my plants and long standing compost with LAB 1:20 (further diluted 1 tbs toa litre). Should the compost be given heavier dosage, ie 2 tbs to a litre?

Hope my plants and compost will thrive.

Thanks for helpingElsie










o Patrick


Hi Nik,

Lacto works amazingly well in septic tanks. Dramatic effect on buildup of wastethere. In grease traps I‘m not as confident. It‘s a different type of compound.. Tryit and see! I think LAB would be effective, but not as much as it is for biologicalwastes. Try it in stronger concentration. Let us know how it goes!

Patrick

Nik Amin


Dear Patrick,

That is awesome, I‘m very hopeful readers and you can share how to useLAB so that it works amazingly well in septic tanks?

Can you please describe what dramatic effect it has on the build up ofwaste.

I‘m testing LAB with food fats right now, after 3 days I can see the fatsclearly compared to the one not mix with LAB, I cant tell whether LAB is

eating the fats or rounding them up first before devouring them

Tq P & G

Happy New Year

Patrick


Hey Nik sorry for the late reply it‘s been a little crazy around here.

That‘s grea t you are testing out LAB on the fats! Let me know howit goes.. My thought was that it might be eating everything except the fat but let me know if it gets that too.

For the septic, just add lacto to the tank like you did for the greasetrap. The septic t ank should be anaerobic so it‘s the perfectenvironment for LAB. In terms of results, I think the biggestadvantage is never having to clean the septic tank again! That‘s















how well LAB consume the waste. I know several cases of that,where people went from having to get the tank cleaned every 6months, to never having to clean it. Depending on the size of thetank, just pore the LAB down the drain so it makes it into the tank

– at home we just flush it down the toilet. Use more or less diluted

LAB depending on your need. You can also mix some sugar intothe solution before you flush it down, help the LAB population getstarted.

Let us know how it goes!!Patrick

elsiehoreb


Hi PatrickCan I use coco peat to replace wheat bran? It is quite cheap. I can get it at less than USD3 per big block.

Intend to slowly ―break loose the block and work with a manageable amount. Theninoculate with the LAB 1:20 + molasses (do I need to further dilute the 1:20 ?). Fermentairtight for 14 days, then sun dry it etc etc.

Will the coco peat work as a substitute for wheat bran ? If this works, I will be veryexcited.

Looking forward to your reply, ThanksElsie

o Patrick


Hey Elsie,

Sorry for the late reply, yep coco peat will work fine! As long as it isn‘t too saltystill. Coco peat comes in many grades of salinity. I think they would all work

actually but the saltier ones probably not as well. Anyway, yep inoculate withLAB and molasses, ferment for 14 days but don‘t sun dry! You can dry outside just find a shady spot. Or just seal it up moist and store that way, thats fineespecially if you‘ll use it soon.

LUVIN

December 31, 2013 at 7:16 pm - Reply...









http://yahoo/

http://yahoo/





http://yahoo/






i love this site.. my question is can i use rice milk instead of cow‘s milk or the powderedmilk? since rice milk is cheaper and abundant here in the philippines. i plant rice, cacao,

bananas, mangoes, and lots of herbs., i also have chickens and a female goat (haven‘t gotthe chance to have a male goat yet). planning to raise pigs soon. i intend to use LAB in allmy plant stuff. thanks and more power. God bless you..

o Patrick


Hey Luvin,

You should use LAB for your animals too! ferment their feed before you give tothem. Also for your compost piles, bad smells, spraying down the animal bedding,there are really a ton of uses for this for animals as well as plants.

As far as your question goes, sorry I think you will have to use normal milk. Theidea is that the lactose in milk ensures the LAB are the ones that thrive. I‘m notsure rice milk has the lactose content that you need.

LUVIN


i have a little confusion with rice bran, is it the local ―darak we used asfeeds to pigs? if so, can i use it as a replacement to wheat bran? thanksagain..

Patrick


Hi Luvin,

Yes, the darak you use locally is rice bran, and it‘s a perfectsubstitute for wheat bran. It‘s great to use for making bokashi aswell.

Cheers,Patrick

luvin

April 20, 2014 at 10:46 am -




http://yahoo/

http://yahoo/







http://gilcarandang.com/natural-techniques/bokashi/


http://yahoo/

http://yahoo/

http://yahoo/




http://yahoo/




thanks for the clarification.. i enjoyed farming and makingfertilizers and composts, etc.. im also a public schoolteacher (high school) and i have a herbal garden in school.ill teach my students to make these fertilizers and applythese to our garden.. im so excited

Franck


Dear Gil and Patrick,

First thanks for your good work!

I was wondering whether it‘s a good idea or not to add a little bit of worm castings and/orforest soil harvested from the wild to the rice wash? Do worm castings and forest humus

contain beneficial lactobacilli? I know that worm castings contain aerobic beneficialmicroorganisms but I‘m not sure whether the beneficial facultative anaerobes potentially present in the worm casting can be or not propagated by this mean?

Thanks for your time!

o Patrick


Hi Franck,

There isn‘t really a need for that step since we really want LAB and those are pretty ubiquitous without needing to add anything. Also, the abundance ofmicrobes in those mediums means more competition with LAB and a higherchance of the serum going bad. But if you want to add just a little bit of thosethings, doesn‘t hurt. The extra microbes should go dormant as LAB take over.Just don‘t add to much of t hem.. Hope this helps..

Cheers,Patrick

nosid naalraJanuary 14, 2014 at 10:25 pm - Reply...

good day patrick

may i know if bee honey is a good substitute for sugar/molasses.















Thanks Patrick

Gian


Hi Patrick,

I harvested already my LAB and kept it with molasses ratio. Did that lastsaturday, when I looked at it today…there are white spots on top…lookslike molds

Patrick


Hmm how much air is there in the vessel? Maybe too much air inthere which allowed molds to grow. White molds are actuallygood, but they shouldn‘t grow in there due to the anaerobicconditions, acidity and chemical byproducts of the LAB activities.In any case I would stick with the non-consumption applicationsfor this batch.

Gian

February 7, 2014 at 9:51 pm -

I placed it on a 6 liter capacity water plastic container; 3/4full but have this contraptions thing hose that releases airinside a water glass. cap on. To prevent it from deformingthe plastic container. Now, the white molds stopped but big

bubbles are present

Patrick

February 23, 2014 at 9:07 pm -

Haha wow it‘s going crazy. That‘s fine though, bubbles are

ok – just watch for black/green/yellow molds. Sounds likeyou have a good anaerobic system so it should work out ok.

nosid naalra
















hi patrick!good day!

I‘m done with my first batch of LAB using rice wash, unpasturized fresh cows milk & molasses & all steps were followed until the last step (mixing 1 part concoction to 20

parts unchlorinated water). When I tasted, it did not taste soury at all, unlike the taste ofLCTO PAFI that taste soury.(1st question) I wonder if my LAB is a good one, but I‘vealready tested it. It works good in eliminating bad odors.(2nd question) Why is it thatLACTO PAFI is soury. (3rd question) how make LAB using SOY BEANS.

thanks.

o Patrick


Hi Nosid,

1. Sour taste is due to acidity. Higher acidity means more sour taste. You getacidity by having those microbes that produce acid+alcohol as byproducts, or pureacid. You can also get higher acidity by leaving it to ferment longer. Normallyyou will get the right bacteria using this recipe, so you might try leaving it longerto ferment.

2. As long as your LAB doesn‘t smell foul. It might smell a little like wine,vinegar, sour, or little sweet.

3. I‘m not sure how to make LAB using soy beans. Lactobacillus bacteriadominate in this recipe because of the lactose in milk. I‘m not sure a reliable wayto get LAB without the lactose. I‘ll look into it.

Cheers,Patrick

nosid naalra


good day patrick!is it right to use the whey from the 2nd fermentation (1 part rice wash whey + 10 partsmilk) as replacement for the rice wash whey?

i want to skip the 1st fermentation to make my 2nd batch LAB

thanks











o Patrick


I think you can do that. I‘ve done it before successfully. Probably get a lower

percentage of other bacteria and more LAB this way. Try and let me know how itgoes!

Dan


Would you advise giving this to 1-5 year old children?

o Patrick


Hey Dan,

Honestly, I can‘t advise anyone drink anything without knowing their medicalhistory and all that. I can say that I drink it no problem, and I know kids drink itno problem. I would follow the directions of other probiotic products like yakult,in that regard. Sorry this is a lame response but you know, safety first. Make surethe batch is good! should smell sour/vinegar/wine maybe a hint of cheese. I thinkit would be a great addition to a kid‘s diet, help fight those bad microbes thatcome in via fingers, non- food like dirt, etc haha but that‘s just me, I would

introduce it slowly and go from there..Patrick

nosid naalra


i‘ll try skipping the 1st fermentation & try to ferment it longer. i‘ll let you know later.

thank you so much patrick.

jb


Hi and thanks for the awesome site!























My first batch I kept a t-shirt over the top instead of completely anaerobic. The milkseperated into levels and such, but the lacto did have a super strong cheesey/alcohol smellto it which was probably it going bad because it only lasted a couple months refrigerated

before definitely being foul.

My latest batch I used UHT long-life milk (cheap) and went outta the way to keep itcovered and anaerobic. It didn‘t seem to really seperate like before where the curdsfloated. it was more like all the liquid slowly turning to cheese. the resulting cheese alsohad pink spots and a small mould film in places on top – chucked it regretfully since id bedrinking it. Was it the milk that caused bad seperating or maybe a rice wash that wasnt

populated enough due to cold weather here?Thanks!

o Patrick


Actually your first batch sounds fine, it should smell a little likecheese/alcohol/vinegar/sour. If you think it‘s going sour, add more molasses.

Hmm good questions regarding the UHT milk. I kinda avoid that stuff since it‘sso processed – the more natural the better in my view although theoretically itshould work just fine. How long did you leave it to ferment? the mold infectionmeans it didn‘t ferment quite correctly in ter ms of organisms present and their

products (lactic acid), so maybe it was the rice wash. maybe leave the rice washunder a lamp to keep it warm for a few days and try again..

Wanna be farmer


I used organic pasteurized milk. The whole batch seemed to work but after a week it wasall curds and no whey/LAB. What caused overproduction of curd? Homogenization?Con tamination? Thanks for help if anyone has ran into this problem. I‘m well versed infermenting veggies but haven‘t done dairy ferments much.

o Patrick


Wow, all curd, that‘s wild. Not sure the issue, too much fat in your milk? tryusing cheese cloth to squeeze the LAB outta there. Anyone have suggestions?

luvin

April 25, 2014 at 6:49 am - Reply...










http://yahoo/

http://yahoo/





http://yahoo/






just a guess… maybe all the liquids evaporated and only the curds are left.was the container left under the sun? the preparation should be placed in acool shaded place.. i don‘t know if this analysis is right, kindly correct meif im wrong..

prachi


hey Patrick,

Thank you for responding to me earlier. Dahi culture.. is a specific kind of culture whichis introduced into milk; its a local knowledge this culture is v rich in lactobacillus….its veasily available in india.

I always wanted to share a v interesting recipe …this is one of the v old age recipe in

India actually from the old scriptures directly. I am brewing it..just started a batch. i usedsome which i bought from the market it helped my plants a lot so wanted to do a DIY.this one uses, curd as well as milk.

Recipe- panchagavya:

1. In Sanskrit, Panchagavya means the blend of five products obtained from cow. (Allthese five products are individually called ‗Gavya‘ and collectively termed as‗Panchagavya‘) It contains ghee, milk, curd, cow dung and cow‘s urine. Panchagavya hadreverence in the scripts of Vedas (devine scripts of Indian wisdom) and Vrkshyurveda(Vrksha means plants and ayurveda means health system). The texts on Vrkshayurveda

are systematizations of the practices the farmers followed at field level, placed in atheoretical framework and it defined certain plant growth stimulants; among themPanchagavya was an important one that enhanced the biological efficiency of crop plantsand the quality of fruits and vegetables (Natarajan, 2002).

For making approx. 20 litres of panchagavya you need the following:* Fresh cow dung – 5kg* Fresh cow‘s urine – 3 litres* Cow‘s milk – 2 litres* Cow‘s curd – 2 litres* Cow‘s ghee – 500 gms

* Jaggery – 500 gms/ molasses* Water or sugarcane juice – 3 litres* Ripe banana fruit – 1 bunch (12 nos.)* Tender coconut water – 3 litres* toddy – 2 litres(If toddy is not available, you can ferment 3 litres of tender coconut water by keeping itin a pot for 1 week. That will become toddy. )







Thanks for sharing Prachi! That is awesome!

Patrick

Tim


Can I put horse manure and ferment it a bokashi system

o Patrick


Well, yes you can but you have to be careful with manure because it is very biologically active and not always (frequently not) the good bacteria. I would

limit the amount of manure you include, use a lot of sugar and a healthy dose oflactobacillus. Maybe brew an activated lacto mixture for this application, tomaximize the LAB population beforehand.

Tim


Patrick,

I was looking on the back of a box of Rid-S (septic tank helper stuff) and

as far as I can tell, it is the same as Bokashi Bran. I was wondering if thatcould be used if someone just wanted to try Bokashi composting andwasn‘t patient enough to make their own?

Tim

Scott


Hi Patrick,

So it‘s in the middle of winter here in the great PNW and I started my carbohydrate washa week ago and smelled it for the first time today and was quite surprised. It smells ofPhenol, which is new to me as I remember a more sour aroma in the past. I am wonderingif being winter might have something to do with it. Either it‘s in too cold an environment,or the winter spores in the air have less lacto in it. It probably averages anywhere from50F to 60F in my house where it‘s left to ferment.



















Any thoughts? Nice FLOG by the way!

-Scott

o Patrick


Heeeyyy greetings to the GREAT PNW – man I miss that place.

Good q uestion…it‘s kinda tough to make this stuff in winter back there in PNW..I did before on a christmas trip home and it worked ok actually but I left theferments by the fire where they were kept quite warm for at least part of the day.I‘d recommend you ke ep the rice wash warm – put it near the heater, or use anaquarium heater to keep it warm. That should help.

As far as using the rice wash you made… you can try using that with milk and seeif it works. Keep the milk warm during fermentation if you can and see if thathelps. Any other questions let me know.

Cheers,Patrick

silcax


hi sir.. tried culturing these.. but after adding milk to the middle layer and waiting coupleof days , it develops white worms on it.. is it normal?what shoud be done to eliminate it?

Scott


…got to thinking and since the rice wash may of went bad, why not just inoculate mymilk with a Tbls or two of live culture yogurt that I have in my fridge? Don‘t you thinkthis would work fine? If not, why?

Thanks,Scott

o Patrick





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Hi Shawn, that should be fine. Is there curd starting to collect at the top?

shawn


Yes i already strain it at day 5 then mixed it up wit brown sugar.than do ineed to wait another week for brown sugar and serum stabilised so dat i cnuse it?

Patrick


You don‘t have to wait the week for it to stabilize, but it willstabilize over time, yes.

Gaston


Hello Patrick and Gil

Me again! Got another question (or two or three) I am afraidBokashi buckets are doing well it seems and I got worm bin(s) going in my living room

as well as another bin with worm castings I harvested early ( still high in the peat I usefor worm bedding). I inoculated the castings- peat with bokashi bran I purchased ( madewith E- M 1 since I did not have serum or BIM and, well, it‘s winter here). The hope isthat by feeding sugar periodically as well as fish hydrolysate ( for fungal) I can use it asan inoculant for my potted plants in the spring.

Thanks for your patience and I‘ve written all of that for a reason soon to be revealedSee, I have started a batch of serum as the first one I did in December with chlorinatedwater in the wash did not work. This one looks great so far. I love looking around on theweb and found something that interested me : I learned what you already knew, that thisthat is that there is many, many species of lactobacillus, divided in categories and I am

assuming gil‘s metho d attracts more than one kind. As I am sure you have figured out myupcoming questions by now let‘s just get to the Point!!! They are all good for our purposeare they? I have read one of your post something to the effect the workhorse in E-M isLacto so t here is probably some of those in my serum right? Further and that‘s the mainquestion: I read they are everywhere, like in manures and bread even in some cases.Would it be worthwhile to get rice wash infected in many locations over time and MIXTHEM as to have the most TYPES together as possible. Would that be beneficial toattempt or are there just a bunch of them in the air all around us, enough anyhow?? …



















Sorry for the length of the post and once again thanks so very much to both of you fordoing this . It‘s so much fun and i‘ve learned so much from the two of you so far.

Gaston

o Patrick


Hey Gaston no tro uble at all that‘s why the site is up. Yep, lacto species areliterally everywhere including the air, they are just ubiquitous in the environment.So to address your question, yes and yes. Yes, you can use the rice wash in one

place and collect all the microbes you need to make a good lactobacillus serum.And also, yes I‘m sure varying the locations of your wash and then mixing themtogether will result in a more diverse lacto culture. Especially naturalenvironments, different natural habitats like we do to collect BIM microbes. Note

here, you are collecting more than just lacto microbes from the air andenvironment, that‘s why we use the wash instead of just inoculating with a lactoculture to start with. It‘s just that by then inundating with milk (lactos e source),you are ensuring the dominance of the lacto species. There are others in there, butthey will be either destroyed by the lacto or will go dormant until environmentalconditions permit them to be active again. While some lacto species aren‘t reallygood for our purposes, adding the milk really gives the competitive advantage tothe useful ones.

EM-1 is an awesome inoculant and if you haven‘t made BIM or lacto serum, it isa great option although a little pricey compared to the cost of the homemade

extracts, hah. You saw correctly before, the real workhorse in the EM1 or BIM isthe lacto bacteria – you can achieve the fermenting results you want using just thelacto serum no problem.

Hope this helps. Keep on fermenting.

Patrick

darryl


i have a few questions…when letting the rice wash sit do i use a bottle with a one wayvalve?(i purchased a few for this purpose) becaused i keep seeing it said that that process is afermentation process… or does the rice wash need to be exposed to air? so that themicrobes can get in?also unpasturized milk is illegal in canada…odd i know but it is…the only thing i canfind that seems close is a 1% mf pastu rized ―natural milk by a company called nutrel, i











have no idea what the natural means? but it cost alot more can i use pasturized milk as itwill still have lactose in it? but they have cooked out microbes =(

o Patrick

March 3, 2014 at 7:35 am - Reply...

Hi Darryl,

Yep, leave the rice wash to sit out, it will get infected with microbes. Don‘t coverit at this stage (it‘s only for a short time, unti l it sours). Any lactose source is fine,so any milk will do actually. The more natural the better, but any of them willwork. I just made a batch with super- treated UHT milk because it‘s all I hadaccess to at the time. No problem.

darryl

March 3, 2014 at 6:16 pm - Reply...

wow, thank you patrick…im excited now that my milk is going to work=). ok so since you are awsome and super responsive(im loving this) imgoing to explain my set-up and hopefully you can explain if i am doinganything wrong and what tweeks to make to the set- up. so….i have to ricewash in a mason jar with a coffee filter placed over the jar before the ring.the ring is tightened down all the way because air can permeate the coffeefilter. I then placed the disc of the mason jar lid loosely ontop. the wholedeal is wrapped in a black towel for darkness, and placed ontop of a

seedling heat-mat with thermostat set to 87 Fahrenheitshould i be putting it in complete darkness? or does it need light? or doesit not matter?should i leave out the coffee filter or the disc in the lid set-up? or change itsome other way?its winter and minus 20 Celsius here in Canada so, im pretty sure i need toheat it my apartment is freezing…. What temperature would be ideal?….sorry for all the questions im just a bit of a perfectionist…i literally

bought all the stuff for just this…also 4x 1 gallon wine fermenting bottleswith the water airlock rubber stopper lids =) for the final ferment and formaking FPE and all the other goodies on your website =)

Patrick

March 3, 2014 at 10:37 pm - Reply...

Hey Darryl,















Ha, glad you are enjoying the site and our recipes! Ok to answeryour questions:

1. When I leave the rice wash out, I usually just cover it with amesh screen that stops the bigger bugs. I like to give it as much

chance to get infected with microbes as possible. You only leave itout a few days to sour anyway, so it‘s not a problem to leave it pretty well exposed. The heat mat will be great for encouragingmicrobial growth, good move there. As far as darkness, I just say‗no direct sunlight‘ but besides that ok. So any shady place should

be fine.

2. Ideal temperature would be around body temp actually, around37 degrees Celsius. Pretty far from minus 20, where are you,Calgary? Haha I guess a ton of cities there are around that temp. Imiss Vancouver, I gradded from UBC so I spent some good years

in that city before moving out to the Philippines. Anyway ideally pretty warm like I mentioned, but if your seed mat can only do 87F then that should be fine also no worries. Anything above about60 F will be very productive for microbial growth.

Wow that is pretty neat you got all the good gear for our stuff! Idon‘t even have that good of gear, it‘s hard to find that stuff here inthe Philippines! You‘re gonna love some of the materi al I havelined up – expanding on what‘s there already. Ok I think that aboutcovers it, any other questions let me know.

Cheers,Patrick

darryl

March 4, 2014 at 7:29 am -

hey patrick, thank you so much brother that was perfect,you answered all my questions perfectly. I actually live inOshawa, Ontario atm….i did live in calgary for awhile andairdrie just north of calgary and also Fort Mcmurray alberta

just south of the yukon… i used to work in theoilsands…couoldnt take how evil it was up there…i never made it to vancouver i really wish i had but i was always to

busy for road trips. thats interesting you‘re fromvancouver! were you born here? or in the phillippines? andif born here and moved there and dont mind me asking,what was your reason for moving there? i have alwayswanted to move to somewhere like that…my uncle lives in



thailand its beautiful. as a matter of fact i was reading aboutthe live in apprenticeship programs offered threw your guysfarm and that looks like an awsome place to start.im definately excited for anything you add to this site…ihave read the whole thing i think now…btw sorry for

asking you about the uht milk before reading all thequestions and answers…i could have found my answer if ihad just done more work instead of making you do theextra work to explain it a 5th time =) my bad =)

Patrick

March 4, 2014 at 8:14 pm -

Haha no worries, I really need to set up a FAQ since thereare some questions that are pretty common. Can‘t expect

people to read through 200+ comments. Well the forum isfor that, it‘s coming soon.

So I was actually born and raised in Oregon on a 40 acrehobby farm, that is the way to grow up man… Then wentto uni at UBC, actually dated a girl from fort mcmurray forawhile there, I visited the city also – I know what youmean, lots of money and nothing to do is trouble. I actuallycame to the Phils to visit a friend who was workinghere….and never left! That was 6yrs ago now so I guessI‘m settled in for a bit haha.

Hey you should look into the apprenticeship program ifyou‘re looking for an interesting experience. Actually theapprenticeship program is ―closed but replaced right nowwith the farmstay program. Limited formal classroom work

but tons of experience on the farm (which I think makesmore sens e anyway). Lot‘s of work with Gil and executing

projects around his farm. It‘s extremely cheap and yourroom and board is free, so it‘s a neat cheap way to learnabout natural farming – and execute!

Aljaž


―We call that the ―activated BIM or ―activated Lacto recipe. It is an awesome way tomulitply the microbes before use, makes a powerful microbial inocula nt when you‘redone! Just make sure you dilute it appropriately so you don‘t shock the system you‘reapplying it to.







Already asked in BIM recipe, here again… what would this appropriately dulition rates be?

Gaston


Hello Patrick

Got another question if you don‘t mind. My lacto batch seems to have worked great.Only three days on a seed mat for warmth and when I checked the curd on top was likean inch thick or even more, the liquid was light yellow so i harvested. If you keep itlonger does it get yellower, hence stronger? Also, I elected to keep it in the fridge ratherthan use sugar. When I use it should I still used it 20:1 Ga or more since there is nosugar?

Thanks in advance.Gaston

o Patrick


Typically we mix 1:1 with sugar, so I would dilute it 1:40 with water when youuse. But you can‘t use too much, if it were me I‘d probably stick with 1:20anyway ..

GastonMarch 3, 2014 at 10:48 am - Reply...

thanks Patrick!!!

Becky Keith

March 4, 2014 at 12:33 pm - Reply...

Hey,

I am just getting started creating an aquaponics system . I have read a bunch of you postand can‘t wait to mix a batch. However my question is about another possible use for thelactobacillus. I was on another site regarding making yogurt from scratch without using ayogurt culture. Can this be added to raw whole milk to make a starter yogurt culture?

o Patrick
























That‘s ok, it is just stabilizing, the microbes are still working, until they reach anequilibrium. Just keep cracking it to release the CO2 buildup and it will slowdown and stop eventually. Try to store it in a bottle with limited space at the top,you don‘t want to store it half full in a bottle ideally.

darryl


so i filled my bottles to the top with the milk and rice wash water and once it started toferment it expanded (tons of bubbles inside get trapped in the thick curd/whey/milkwater) when it expanded it went all the way threw my airlock lid and onto my carpet. imean alot!!!! my carpet is being ripped up tomorrow….PATRICK plz add somethin g tothe begining explaining this fact so no one else ruins a grand worth of carpet trying tomake this….that should be in the instructions

o darrylMarch 7, 2014 at 6:42 pm - Reply...

kinda over reacted sorry for goin all capitals on ya hahaha =) anyhow not a grandto replace just 150 to be cleaned by a pro…plz do add that to the instructions tho ithink it will help ppl cuz that sucked smelled really bad and i had to sleep on thecouch after that one

Patrick

March 8, 2014 at 7:16 am - Reply... Darryl – apologies dude that sucks! My bad, I will amend the recipe now.Ouch, the couch, just surprised there no curses in that first post..

darryl


all good brother…i definately wouldnt just start cursing at you cuzof that, that wouldnbt be very canadian of me haha =) anyhow my

lacto serum is done only took 4 days on my heat mat at 35 Cdoesnt really look yellow tho… looks kinda how the rice washwater looked originally…excited to get started using it…i came upwith a way to store the serum right to the top of the bottle even asit is being used from the bottle. just simply add small sterilizedglass marbles into the bottle as it is used up to displace the lactoserum so it is always filled to the top =)



















Patrick

March 10, 2014 at 9:37 pm -

ha, that‘s why we‘re planning to settle in Canada – people

are a little more relaxed…

No worries about the color of the serum, it can be whiteinstead of yellow, I t hink it depends on the milk you‘reusing. That is an awesome method of keeping the level inthe jar up!! haha simple and effective, I love it.

Chelsa

March 26, 2014 at 5:01 am -

Thanks for that tidbit Darryl! The marbles is a brilliantidea. I‘ve been wo ndering what I should do about theairspace that is created when I use the LB. I was thinkingI‘d have to constantly switch out the containers to smallerand smaller jars. Your idea is perfectly brilliant! You andGaston ask all the questions I wonder about.

Patrick

March 26, 2014 at 6:45 am -

Ha, awesome. Anne


I have a poultry farm i would like to know if its okay for me to spray the lacto on thechicken manure to the reduce odor? If yes what is your recommended dilution? I alreadyhave the lacto with me im just not sure if its safe for me to spray it straight to the manure.Thank you very much!

o PatrickMarch 10, 2014 at 9:45 pm - Reply...

Hi Anne,

It is ideal for manure! And incredibly effective in reducing those types of odors(ammonia). Spray away. You can spray everywhere – on the manure, on the











chickens, on yourself, anywhere.. doesn‘t matter. These microbes are everywhereanyway, this is just a concentrated form. You can dilute 1tbsp/L. Then get

progressively more dilute over time, down to 1tbsp/gal and less.

You will be startled with how effective this treatment is. I can‘t wait for you to try

it. With things like pigs and pig pens, its miraculous. To not smell a piggery 10 ftaway from you – that‘s pretty cool.

Anne

March 11, 2014 at 9:47 am - Reply...

Thank you very much patrick!! Cant wait to try it tomorrow!

Anne

March 12, 2014 at 8:02 am - Reply...

Im sorry patrick. One last query. How long will the diluted formlast? Thanks!

Patrick

March 12, 2014 at 9:02 am -

No worries Anne, the diluted form, I keep in the fridge andit keeps pretty well that way. But as you use a lot of it and

more airspace exists in the container it gets less effective. Iuse it for anywhere from a couple weeks to a month or so.Kept in the fridge it‘s pretty stable.

darryl


is there a certain reason for mixing the serum 1 to 20 with water?…and then using 1 -2tablespoons per liter of that? could i just keep the serum as is and use 1/8 – 1/4 of ateaspoon of the pure stuff per liter? or is there a reason for the 1 to 20 mixture?

o Gaston

March 9, 2014 at 10:43 pm - Reply...

hahaha. great question I was wondering the same.

o Patrick



















March 10, 2014 at 9:34 pm - Reply...

Well when you dilute the first time, with 20 parts water, you are kinda ‗activating‘the lacto. With more dilution they are liberated from the osmotic pressure of thesugar and can multiply once again, that‘s how I was taught anyway. You don‘t

need to do t his step, you can do it how you‘re describing no problem. I think youwill get more life from the bottle and more effect doing the dilutions though.

Now, the second dilution, the last one, I don‘t always follow. For example takingit internally – just just pour a little lacto in the glass and drink it. Mix it with half aglass of water for my wife, who is absolutely repulsed by the taste but lovesshrimp bagoong , go figure .

darryl

March 11, 2014 at 8:19 am - Reply...

makes sence…but what about the pure lacto serum kept in the fridge withno sugar added? cuz that how i did it. if you dilute 20 to 1 the serum fromthe fridge wouldnt have any sugars in the diluted solution for them to feedon and multiply. so should i be making the diluted mixture from the fridgeserum and adding sugar to do it propperly and get the desired results? orshould i just be making the sugar/lacto mixture because in the end thatmakes the best diluted mixture?

Patrick

March 11, 2014 at 8:45 am - Reply... ahh, ya if you don‘t add 1:1 sugar with the pure lacto, I‘m not surehow much benefit you‘ll get diluting it in the first 1:20 dilution. Soyou might as well use the pure lacto in that case just much lowerapplication rates since you‘re skipp ing the 1:20 dilution.

I think the 1:1 with sugar and then 1:20 initial dilution is ―best butyour method works fine. No rules here..

darryl

March 12, 2014 at 6:35 am -

patrick, your awesome, i really appreciate all yourhelp…this site with you running it has been the best findever. =) i am having so much fun with this..

Patrick




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagoong














I‘m curious if anyone has successfully eliminate d black molds with this substance. WhereI live, mildew and mold proliferate. They even grow in the trunk of my car due to a leak.I understand that odors are managed, but molds? I‘d love to learn more. Thank you!

o Patrick

March 17, 2014 at 9:16 pm - Reply...

I have had success personally combating molds with this, and for cases where thatdid not work, I used the ginger-garlic extract. It is very effective on tough molds.Make a batch and try on your molds and see if you can combat them that way. Ithink in general this is better as a preventative measure, while for tough moldsyou would need something stronger and more anti-fungal, like the ginger-garlicextract.

Khaessha Arsenal

March 13, 2014 at 2:25 am - Reply...

Hello Mr. Gil Carandang, I and my research group mates are having a study on theefficiency of LAB as a degrading agent to solid wastes. And we used one of your articleson Korean Natural Farming as reference. We were just wondering if this LAB would beeffective or if you have already tried it on Solid Waste.

o Patrick

March 17, 2014 at 9:23 pm - Reply...

I will pass this on to Gil. I can tell you though, it is very effective on solid wastes.This is the recipe to follow if you want to make lacto and test it for your study.

Becky Keith

March 19, 2014 at 5:28 am - Reply...

Thanks for all the great info. We had the bad luck to have a commercial chicken farmmove in behind our property. If the wind is coming from that direction the smell ishorrific. Whew I thought the paper mill the next town over was bad till this operation set

up. I plan to go and have a chat with them and see if they know about this or would bewilling to give it a try. Lol of course I plan to also use it on my pre-teen stinky boys tosee if it helps. Their shoes and BO can rival the chicken farm some days.

o Patrick

March 23, 2014 at 10:03 pm - Reply...























April 23, 2014 at 4:25 am - Reply...

Hi Gil & Patrick,Hope U r in great health.I read Luvin post on using LAB to his rice field. The result was better than the last

season.My question r1 . What is the ratio used?2. When do U spray and how many time?Tqvm, Ur website r so insightful and very helpful

o luvin

April 25, 2014 at 9:50 am - Reply...

hello nik amin,

so glad you have read my post regarding the LAB on my rice field. I followed the1:20 dilution and used 2tbsp of that to one liter of non-chlorinated water. Isprayed it before the flowering stage and since i made only a little amount ofLAB, i was only able to spray once during the whole cropping stage. I believeapplying it on a once-a-week basis would be best. I already have prepared another

batch of LAB and Fish ferment to be used for the next cropping season comes june (planting season). i will add the FPE and the OHN to my preparations assoon as i got the materials ready. im looking forward to an increase on my cropsnext season. i will be posting it soon. harvest season will be by september.

o Patrick

May 6, 2014 at 10:06 pm - Reply...

Hi Nik,

Hopefully Luvin can answer that. I can just say, use the application ratio wesuggest. You can spray as often or little as you like. I would combine nutrientswith the LAB, let it sit 1-2 days, and then use that. Use that technique wheneveryou normally apply nutrients.cheers – Patrick

Arvin M.April 25, 2014 at 7:28 am - Reply...

Hi Patrick,




http://yahoo/

http://yahoo/













http://yahoo/




First off I‘d like to thank you and Gil for the amazing work that you guys do. Most of thegratitude is freely you share the experience and knowledge. Also for creating anenvironment where people can readily share their ideas.

I‘m just a hobbyist doing a little organic gardening at home and your site has proven to

be a most essential companion.It‘s like getting that chemistry set that I always wanted as a child!

This time I‘d like to share a small twist I made with your Lacto Serum recipe.I‘ve been fermenting milk using the standard rice wash and milk recipe, but had verylittle luck in getting curds that are solidenough to strain cleanly. What happens is I end up mixing the concoction up, and usingthe whole thing as the final serum. I think it has something to do the with milk since I‘veonly been able to get UHT processed ones in the groceries.

Anyway, I‘ve also been reading up on the different strains of lactobacilli and decided to

experiment on one strain that‘s cheap and readily available (available in most 7 -11 storeshere in Manila).

Here‘s what i did: (lactobacillus casei serum)

1) bought 2 liters of cheap UHT full cream milk, bought 3 Yakult bottles (@10 pesos per bottle).2) put 1 liter of milk in a sauce pan and brought it to a boil (once bubbles formed Iquickly took it off the stove).3) added the remaining 1 liter of milk.4) poured it into pitcher and let it cool down to a temp a little warmer than body temp (40

deg celsius guesstimate)5) poured 2 small bottles of Yakult into the milk (i drank the third bottle because it‘s myfavorite)6) put on the pitcher cover and covered it with a black t-shirt. set it on top of my closet.

I did everything last night, and now (in a little less than 24 hours) i‘ve got what i assumeto be very good curd and whey separation:

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1620386_10152116459306319_4217804375296503580_n.jpg

Although, I really hope it‘s the lactobacillus casei (Shirota strain!) multiplying and not just wishful thinking.

Thanks for reading. More power to you! (I never really understood what that phrasemeans. Would be nice if you get super mutant powers every time someone said that toyou)

-Arvin








o Patrick

May 6, 2014 at 10:18 pm - Reply...

Great post Arvin, thanks for sharing! With picture and everything, nice!

Thanks for contributing your recipe, I‘m sure others will find it interesting!

Cheers,Patrick

yash

June 10, 2014 at 7:22 am - Reply...

hey i added sporlac capsule in it to improve bacterial counts is it fine?

Patrick

July 2, 2014 at 11:37 pm - Reply...

Hey Yash, that shouldn‘t be a problem, they are related species sothey should play nice..

Anne

April 26, 2014 at 3:53 am - Reply...

Hi patrick!

I just wanted to make sure if i was doing the right thing. I have my pure lacto mixed itwith same amount of molasses. I just store it in a 4gallon plastic container. And when ineed to use it i just do the 1:20 dilution. Am i doing the right thing or would you ratherrecommend that the lacto be refrigerated? Thanks again!!

o Patrick

May 6, 2014 at 10:30 pm - Reply...

You can leave it out since it is half sugar. But when using, you dilute it TWICE…so dilute it 1:20.. And then dilute THAT solution when applying, normally 1-2tbsp/gal depending on application. The 1:20 should be stored in fridge for longerterm.

Lichen























April 26, 2014 at 1:32 pm - Reply...

Molasses has fiber added!Gil or Patrick,Beautiful write up and pictures, thanks! I bought a 50-pound bag of animal feed

molasses, mixed it into my beautiful whey 1:1. It came out gooey and grainy. Oops, Iread the fine print — the molasses bag has a second ingredient of 15% plant fiber! I hateto waste the whey and the bag of molasses. I thought of two possibilities: 1) Store the

batch in refrigerator as is. Do the first 1:20 dilution, and attempt to strain out the plantfiber from this first thinner dilution. 2) Add some milk to the main batch, leave it at roomtemperature, and see if the wee lacto beasties will eat the grain fiber.

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated, and thanks for all you do.

o Lichen

April 26, 2014 at 2:48 pm - Reply... OK, I went on with the first 1:20 dilution. It is quite liquid & I think I can strainout the grain fiber.

Patrick

May 6, 2014 at 10:34 pm - Reply...

Ya that should work.. sorry for the late reply, busy days here in Manila..

o PatrickMay 6, 2014 at 10:34 pm - Reply...

Hey Lichen,

The first 2 options would work fine.. The microbes will likely have a hard timedigesting the fiber, but they would soften it up quite a bit, for quicker degradationin the soil.

The fiber isn‘t a problem though, I wouldn‘t worry about it. If you‘re drinking,

it‘s good fiber for your diet. If for plants, good nutrients for them. Haha, win-win.You would just want to strain in final application, if said application is throughirrigation lines or something where the fiber could clog lines..

Cheers,Patrick

jenedin



















Hi!I love your website and all that you are doing to spread information to educate aboutnatural farming. I used raw milk for my lacto and it seems to have separated into a topand bottom curd with the yellow lacto serum in between. This is my first time making itso is it ready or am I jumping the gun and should wait until all that is below the top curd

is yellowish clear looking? I harvested about 2 oz of the yellow liquid and stabilized itwith molasses this morning because I really wanted to spray down the bedding in thechicken coop to get a start on fermenting their manure.Also, I wanted to add that since the weather here has been a bit on the chilly side, Iwrapped the jar of lacto ferment with a short (3ft long) strand of christmas lights to bringthe temp up a few degrees and I think it has helped the process a long quite a bit.

Another question; Do you know if using Diatomaceous Earth is conducive to BIM orharmful. I accidentally killed a batch of black soldier fly larvae by allowing them tooclose to my chick manure (from when they were still brooding indoors and were on sandthat I had mixed with DE because I needed something to dry the bedding out while

keeping odors down since I still didn‘t have any lacto to use). I know that DE is notharmful to beneficial gut flora when ingested internally, so I‘d assume it‘s fine with theBIM but harmful to larger, micro eating life forms (larvae, worms, etc). The reason I askis because I am trying to weigh the pros and cons of using DE with my chickens.Thanks for any insight!Monique

o Patrick

May 20, 2014 at 3:16 am - Reply...

Hey Monique,Glad you are enjoying the site and our recipes!

If it has separated into curds and whey, it should be ready, go ahead and drain it. No problem that some are on top and some on bottom.

Good question about DE and BIM. My feeling is that it might harm some butleave others alone. I don‘t think it will just ―kill everything and I think you‘ll befine using them together, but you can likely expect a little less diversity ofmicrobes. Not sure though, just play with it and see.

Let us know how the lacto and chicken coop smell goes! It should helpimmensely! And get a nice head start on the compost process!

Cheers,Patrick

LUVIN




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May 21, 2014 at 5:01 pm - Reply...

hello again Patrick,i just want to have your opinion on using Lacto whey (the one without the molassesyet)on making herbal and organic soaps. I‘ve read along this thread here that lacto can

tolerate acidic environment. but what about an alkaline environment brought by the process of soapmaking using sodium hydroxide to saponify oils in soaps? i am veryinterested in adding lacto whey to my soaps (or maybe the 1:1 lacto-molasses serum)since i believe it can aid in exfoliating dry dead skin cells and promotes lightening of skintones, as many Asians desired that in their soaps. I hope you could help me with this, andif i may, send you samples of my soap using lacto on it. thank you very much

o Patrick

June 6, 2014 at 4:51 am - Reply...

Hey Luvin,That‘s a good question. I can‘t say exa ctly which strains of lacto will be in yourlacto serum, but unfortunately most lacto strains do not tolerate alkalineenvironments well. Sorry, I doubt it will work well as an additive to your soaps.That said, you can try using it, and sending me the soap you make!

But I don‘t want to mislead you, it‘s unlikely any lacto will survive once you addthe soda.

Cheers,

Patrick LUVIN

June 8, 2014 at 1:49 am - Reply...

thank you for that info, i really appreciate it. i think i should get moreresearch on using lacto on soaps. i didn‘t use any thermometer inmeasuring how hot the process made, but it is hot enough to burnsomeone‘s skin. anyway, i did used the lacto whey in one of my yogurtsoaps and placed it in the fridge to cool.. i should send you samples of it

but don‘t know where your address is, so i can send it via one of the localcouriers. much as i‘m so passionate in farming, so is into soap making

Patrick

July 2, 2014 at 11:14 pm - Reply...







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Haha thats awesome luvin!! Yeah please send me some soap i‘dlove it! I‘ll email you my address.

LUVIN

May 21, 2014 at 5:06 pm - Reply...

… and oh, another issue.. will heat created during the gel -stage of the saponification process kills the lacto? or should i don‘t gel it up and place my soap in the fridge? thanksagain..

o Patrick

June 6, 2014 at 4:52 am - Reply...

lacto are pretty tolerant of heat, they will do fine up to around body temperature

and higher. How hot does it get? Nebula

May 26, 2014 at 6:51 am - Reply...

Ok,on one site me find very simple recipe for lacto.And it is to put one table spoon of rieor other kind of flour in one litre of water and to leave it anaerobic to fermentate forcouple days till it is milky white and little sour.Is it simular with your recipe?Like end

product?Me made this acording to your recipe,but waiting for proces to finish so me cantaste it.Thanks!!!

o Patrick

July 2, 2014 at 10:25 pm - Reply...

Yeah that‘s similar. The difference is, when you add that sour rice wash to milk,you get a TON more lacto bacteria in final culture.

Yash

June 10, 2014 at 12:14 am - Reply...

Hey, it is so useful thanks for sharing thisI was wondering can i use it to clear surface of ponds for aquaculture?If yes then can u suggest me carrier material as i was thinking to make tablet of thisserumAnd another thing is can i use it to treat poultry waste as it smells too bad

o Patrick

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July 2, 2014 at 11:36 pm - Reply...

Absolutely Yash, it is awesome for those applications. We are coming out with aclay ball recipe for longer slower release of lacto for aquaculture. For now justuse the liquid form for ponds – spray your lacto mixture around your pond and it

will clean up the sludge and slime typical of unused ponds.

It is incredible at reducing animal feces odors – try it on the chicken manure youwill see.

Cheers,Patrick

yash

July 4, 2014 at 2:41 am - Reply...

well then i am waiting for clay ball recipe

Mike

June 12, 2014 at 8:20 am - Reply...

Hi, I just made a batch of lacto and I have about a gallon of the concentrated serum. Imixed 2 gallons of diluted serum using 1 cup of concentrate to 1 gallon of water. I wantto use this on some dog urine odor I have in basement concrete floor. Do I need to dilutefurther of should I use the 1:20 ratio in a pump sprayer? Any other advice would be

appreciated. Should I wet the concrete first or just spray on dry concrete? My thoughtsare the bacteria will die off as soon as the liquid dries.

o Patrick

July 2, 2014 at 11:59 pm - Reply...

I think you can still dilute it further, your floor might smell like lacto at thatrate(i‘d dilute again 1:20). The lacto will die off or become dormant when theconcrete dries, but not before controlling the smell. You can wet the floor firstwill probably work better.

Kalpana

June 12, 2014 at 8:52 pm - Reply...

Hi PatrickAs per your recipe i made the the lacto and it has taken only 10 hrs to to form curds. Thetemp here in India is around 30 ish. So do i keep it for 7 days and then extract the serum























Hey patrick, for human wont it be good if we directly innoculate yakult inmilk ?What you say?

John

June 13, 2014 at 7:47 pm - Reply...

And what is the caution I have to have in mind?

o Patrick

July 6, 2014 at 6:21 am - Reply...

Just make sure you have a good batch (no mold), and dilute according to therecipe. Should be good! I drink every day..

Stephen Avens

June 16, 2014 at 4:23 am - Reply...

Can this be used in Aquaponic Systems to promote both plant and fish growth.

o Patrick

July 6, 2014 at 6:24 am - Reply...

Hi Stephen,

Yep, this is used in aquaculture to reduce disease, promote growth, and generallykeep fish healthy even in crowded conditions. The lacto bacteria consume the fishwastes which otherwise build up in the water. Also, as they consume the fishwastes they are turning them into bio-available forms for immediate uptake byyour plants.

Do you have an aquaponics system? Can you use and let us know how it goes?That would be awesome!

Cheers,Patrick

levy lim

July 6, 2014 at 6:41 pm - Reply...







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Hello Patrick,my fermented rice wash and skim milk after 7 days did not form a lot of curds. i can stillsee the liquids under it but i saw like bubbly at the top.Is this right? it looks like notenough curds to me at the top unlike yours. pls tell me if im doing this right. The ratio is1liter of rice wash to 10 liters of skim milk. My milk ratio is 1kilo skim to 10liters of

water. Please help. Thanks bunches! Kalpana

July 7, 2014 at 3:47 am - Reply...

HI, Patrick,I made the serum and applied them to my newly pruned container plants. Within a fewdays there were numerous shoots popping all over the place. Its as if the plant was onsteroids. Not complaining though. Seriously, this is too good. I‘ve made some bloomfertiliser also and am waiting to apply this as well. When do I do this anyway?As soon as

the buds start appearing or before that?Clueless here. Thanks a lot for your time and patience.

o Henry

July 7, 2014 at 9:45 am - Reply...

Kalpana,

Don‘t mean to hijack or undercut Patrick, but it would be wise to check out Cal -Phos in the recipe section. In so far as the bloom I begin applying as soon as I see

any signs of bud development. Again I‘m speaking for myself and not for Patrick.The Cal-Phos recipe just prior to bud development works wonders for me!

Annie

July 30, 2014 at 5:23 am - Reply...

Hi Patrick, I could not do any gardening for some months on doctor‘s orders. I put myLAB innoculated with molasses into the fridge now already a few months. Is themicroorganisma still alive, do you think? I made a lot and would really be sad if I have tothrow the lot away. Please can you reply asap as I am going to resume gardening, doctor

approves or not. jeff


can i use curdled milk for the milk mixing part? or should u use fresh



















jeff


Example Recipe:

1 L rice wash10L Milk10kg sugarAfter rice wash and milk remove curds – around 1L= 20 L lactic acid bacteria serum

the 10 kg sugar part…is this right…cause right before you say this it says 1kg sugar per1L. not 10 per 1. please let me know, because i am on this step!

jeff


thanks! you guys have some great stuff









lactobacillus serum

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