l ·e· ··m' "tu· t· !_ •• n;. ·1 ,/ (j -··: ' - -· ~ . ; . . ! . . ' ' . ; - . ' •

. . -. .

TO THE

·s· ·,·.y· .. ··n· · N. ··•·E·. y,· ·Mo····•··R;; •N: ·.··~·-.. N·········G·.· ..... H.· •· ·E· ,R··· ·.··A_·····,···u···D ,· ·, .. : ' r' . . . . , . !• . ' :' : '· • ••• • • • • • " • 1 • ' •• •• • • .' • ' • •

. . . .. - . . .

THURSDAY, MAY 4, ui4s. ' ' ' . . '

LEG ISLAT!VE COIJNCIL. wish to discuss the claim of the s.qunttets to' be nndobtaine.d the- tC.mlem.na.tiQn and execmtiofi commended in va1ri. · The ol{b.system ivns"still represented on the pre;sellt occasion;' ·but, he Of tlie whole Comm~riit'y. · If they- 1Vmted · 'llei·~isted -iu1 and th53. despatch Of Lord 9rey

·'i'uP.Sl)AY, '1\f<~."i. 2. would merely observe in pnssing that it did proof of this, they ht!.d it in the vote of the wns' only the rcitcrati<;>U· Of an attempt tO i.J.ltro--THE·NEW" CONSTITUTION. not follow because the f:qunttcrs were virtually House the other night, on the motion of the' duce n lnrf{e measure -l)ased ··upon DiE>trict

Mr. WENTWQR'l'.II, ill.nt,oviilg "the .resolu~ ·represented· in the present <..:oun.cll th~t tb.<ay l\on~r1lblc· mciD.ber for 'Poi't rhillip;.hims'clf a Councils. V r:rj ·limited districts ·would li01ve tiO~s plnced upon the table, would beg the would be so l"eprcs"cntecl in nny tutttre one, ;If, party tO tlrc ntt"empt to wot·k one ·of these to be· formed, and the whole ~ountry would pri.tience of the House whilst he ·adih·cssed a indeeq, the efforts of some honol'3-ble memberS Councils. It wv.s not the· first·time that simi- thus ·be split up into ll_Umbe:rlcss divis;Ons,

.. fe,'l ·observations· in' support . of them. ·The were of any nvail, the squatters as 11 class woult1 lilr' effOrts, ,\·ith · similar motives, had been ·each· _having its· own· ·petty ·interests nnd ·object he b.t1d 'in· view in nlteri1ig those re~o~ be shut out of tlmt House altogether. If theit In.a~€, but the CouncU'at leaat had bcc-ri trne to jen.lou~ics to · consiU~. · Byel'Y on~ w~o llltions fi-om the form in which he hnd laid opinions,· their representations, n1id advice, itself and tO the country.; and. he hoPCti th<i · knc·w any···- thing 'about the colOny,

-- :thein before the House was, that he niight ob- prevailed, not one single squnttcr \vonld be vote of the other evening would act as a warn- must" know thfl-t such· -n Scheme WitS :ut~ taih. ·the unanimoi.ts assent of the Council: to· eleCted. (~aughtc1'.) And yet, it coill~l hot ·ing to them, 'who, ullder riily luture ch·cum- ·tcrly :visionary, absurd, and· impractic(lble,

· · :thcim, .and that- they· might' go ho"1lle flS the , be denied, that _this class was :;ts ittti.mat_e.ly' ·sta1~ees, ~Ym~\d attemp-t to. pu~ ih1a.ab!5UtcUmd nntl cpu1(1 exist only in: the iiD:aginntion 9f a ex:pt·ession of the Ieeli_ngs, at least, of the ;-epl·e- connected with all the local interests of 'tllo eo:.. dctestable"system in force. Still;· futil<f :ns the pei-sOri ignOrant of nn,y:of ·the ci.rcunlstunce~ of· ser.tative p~-t of their body. Re· regretted l6ny as !iny othCI: .. • That in education and in~ dfor_t had as· yet been- detetminMely as they the Colo"ny; There were d.istricf.:s in the colOny however to be forced to state that his ahticipa- -tell!gehcc tlHly cl~imc(l equality with any other had be(!l~ oppOsed by the Council aud the of 300 rr.iles·in circUmference; iri. which he 'llew tions in this -respeCth;\ddeccived him, an'd even clns~, that they contributed· equally t.6 tl\e ;re- -pe01)1e-.-1m belie-ved. that some such l'ystem sitat'cid not-to say there were not ten cmplo)rers

'no\V, he belieVed; frOm what hnd been: COniTJ?-11- verille with nny ot-her clnss, "and wei:e, there.: )YO!lld yet be cru;ried into law, and their' of lnbour......:...aye;' or-districts of ~thOusand miles nicated to him since entering that House, so.~ri !'ore, equal~y entitle-d· with a .. iy other· class to grentest hope· of safety lay in the _chanCe tllat ~n ·circumfcrcncq. Now, 'supposing a district ·amendnicnts would be· moved. Could he have the exercis'e 'of the elective ·fi.-anchise; aitd to theY might discOver some flaw in the seCoP,d of 300 miles-councillors lhing at the extre­fCires.een this he would certainly have persisted ·havG th:eir interests, thCir wunts, tl{cix ' as they did in thefust.measur'e, by which t1iey inity Of it, iftbey met in ~he centre, wou1U_ha:ve in hh: original resolutions, believing thcin, us he' opinionS' and feelings, 'reprciseiited· in the le!Jis- might frustrate·· ~he _vile·. attet"!).pt to 1·uin the to ride' fifty nliles in and fifty out again; "and still did, supet•io'r both in. mutter and manner to latUl'C c;>f the ccilony. Seeing,· then, -tlitlt cyen CO).J.titry~ Ire thought it was impossibl~tq sepa~ was it 'to_ be supposed thnt for some lpcal those which wi?r8 now on th€: paper .. · Tie I\_ ad in the-number of-its meinbers, the constitution mte these two schemes for tlwestablishment of matter, ;;i.teh ItS the repair of a road or a bridge, c'onceUCd his ow1i opinion ns fm· as hf: conll1 to of the pre5ent Council did nut req~\ire to', be Disb:i~t Councils •. Forthel~st.eig)ltyears asys~ · that thC:y 1Vould do this ? No doubt, if n. rClay "\Vhat he· thought to be the wishes ofth·e· Rouse, altered; he ·could not see any ground. ''·hate"ier, temu.tic andcontiriuous attempt.h::ld' bcerimnde of.the" best hm·ses were_kep,t on the rend fol' "the but ·even n.owj mOdified as the I'csolU.tionS had 1vhy theseparrt.tion ofPort Phillipshoulcl,belhnde to force Dit::trictCouricils ollall the.A.usti·a1Usiari use of these Council).ors; it might be done; 'but been, it appeared they were obje~tiontl?le. to nn excuse for thC introduc.tion of Lord Gre'y's colonies-an.d no doubt the Go-vernment· was without this it"·could not be etl€'cted. "And dis-

, ·- - soni!i, as intl·oducjng some irrel.rvant topics, measm;e. Nui--could he when he looketl to the very anxious to curry them -intO effect--no· trlets· such- ns these -in this colony ·wet·e "the · - Still, however, he had hopes that the IIouse· whole of this despatch believe that this \vas the daub~ they would gladly relieve thenls"clVes ,by rule, ·not ·the exception. - Once beyond ~lie

.. :ffiight Yet <lgree· upon thcse.resolutiOJl', with the ~·eal g1:ound wl~ich;the minister h~din·pi·opps~· _throwing on to local funds the burden of pay~ limits of the towns and thiq~y populated .exception indeed of the official members,

1

to mg this constLtut10n to them. - There:. was ing for· police, ~cil' the r~i:mir a11d maintenarice settled districts, and· the whole 'country m·ust _·whom he ,couJd not expect; that in· nny shnpe tlo_thing wha.tevcf t_a justify !melt t\. cb.llltge~in. of l'bat1'$, und ol education: 'No doub't :0.-om bc·-split·up into limwieldy d\v-.isions of this Bort : lte·. could suggc:>t these resolutions: would the absence'! of nil petitions .from the ColonistS the· relief thuS aff(n·ded to 'the gc:D.'eral revenue·,· to eHCct purpme::ifm; 1Vhic_h ther<5 w<~s no popu­be· pnlatablc. Emnnnting, as the pm poSed themselves.· The colonists-had not nshcd for !t hu-ger sum would be placecl at ·the dispoSal lation to pay;- ~he" wholC"-seh.eme betrayed an scheme of n. coilsti&utlon for the colony did, nnY ch'ange.:...:.....they were satisfied with the cOn- of the G_ovcnlment fo1'' the purflosC of p"at3.- 011 !.. utter ignoi·nD.9e · of the cirCumstance5 of the from the Seerchtiy of State; himself~ he' ~id stitution they'hnd got, u.n<l had agaiu.1.1.ml:agft'rl l\gc, nntl ~j'l~t 'this wQuld pe_:Very plensiD.g to colony. · It: clern:lY sho\Ved ,th«t if the ~ocal

_:not · look for the support of officials for· l'epudiated PY the' vote~ nnd resolutions of the the Government .. 'l'hifl was the object· of ·all Government 'would' not 'i:i:J.Struct the home :au­·any resolutions sufficiently Strong to !!xpr_ess House, embodiGd in addresses to. Jlcr 1-Io.jcsty, the Rttcmp_t_s· pcrsis_tCd in so ~qstin·utely·by his thourities, and if the hOme· O.uthorities woUld the feelings of that House and the COWltry nnd to Parlinmcnt, the very principle· u.L)n~ la_te ~xccllency, a.ghlust the uplifted _.voice·of rcqei-ve instruction only th_r~ugh the local Go­

-upon it. They ·could not pronourice * cqn- _which this new selv~me wo.s mninly 1w.sed. '·It }he whole· community, to .institUte . tl\e.Se. bo. _vcriuuyn_t; · that· · ru;~.y · r~m~msu·ancc from demnation in language· such ns it deserved ; wils quite evident that this proposnl was the cli<s7an attempt which, to the· immortn.l ho- ·tHat Council w6uld be Yain. 'Vherever but the rep1·8sentativC members, he did hope, i·esult of some underhanded inllucnce ri.t wo~J::, nom of .the. Qonncil, >Vas .. ~couted. even. by a ur whene;ver. these "'Counci~s should be -~ap· would not hesitate to meet it with a Hnu unci. either to injure this colony, or to advll.nce so!ne Cotincil composGd of. nominees of the Crown, pointed, the,lociillegislli.tu":re wri.~ the only bOdy

, . uncompromising opposition,· C!=nl.Yeyed lldri.n- selfL<>;h o.nrl si_n.tster pU'l'}lOSI'!. It.was difficult, '(Jie!ll'1 hcin'r,) .If on i1iis ·subject the ·Imperial bY' which they sh.Ould be !lPPOinted. ''fhe des­. ·, gungci not to he. mistaken by tlie Miuisti!r. or- perhaps to fix-1q'lon the mole thnt y;us- utl(1'er- Govemment would· be ·instructed by nny prit_ch of Earl Grey, with o: remnrkuble -inpon·

· the GOvernment to -which he. belonged. ' Tie mining their constitUtiun1 but they might c9n- ,thing, it _ wOuld,,_ be · insU:uctcd by sis"tency,· 1tdm~tted this '].}ril_l.ciple· itself. "'.l,.'hn.t hu.d ·been infOrined, ·howeVer, U:s lie had .before ·jec~ure, and lw'doubtednOt thatmosthonornble !Jt_nt .-·ev~ut, ._.and the- subaeqlieJ1t deter-- dCspntch stated- ; · ' :st 1tecl; that cel-tain.·tOpiCs were· likely ta·he. ht- members llnd like himse~f]."ln~tty strong opi1\iOns mmc(l · xefusn1 of··_' 'he ;cOlony to· give '· witiwut cntei-irig ·nt lni-gp' into tho·nrrnnicmeiit, 1

! ' traduced into the' tlBbate whicl1 WOuld p"reV<mt · nn· !th_e, subject. That: there· -ltad been sUch _life and_.auhna_tion to _the . bodies ·in'corp·orat~d mUSt-yet ~o fUr vindicate, my. own .conclusion 119 to1re-'tli -'' t' ftht' '• 'ty'l'ill.hd ud]nd'"ueo cd 'b d'!J ·1·! ,, fth··c•· · · • ·lnnrl~:,·thnt.it·r<!s.tsmuinlvnn_·thB'g'·"'P'.incip1.6.of e re<.U.LSa lOll o o.. unu.ru.m1 'W uc w·. a . n ~r 1 n · 1nu n e us wns eyon a . 1mt." t.le prov,'"· oris o e . onst.ittit1·o·.,-.' Act. • "

t d . , i.U coloui:1l govcrnm~nt,. which-nll u1cory. :md o.llexpedouce

· anticipated! "\yha these topics ~vould be, he oubt :·whether 1t was armed with authbritv or Secmg how the colony. had -already acted 'in: st;~m to·1~\l.to-Conc_t_lc ill- e~~b!lshing:, ·.:J;l1nt ~!in.cial_k is-, should not attempt to· anticipate; bu.t reserve. not. But to·look a little-fmth:er i.utQ the·meXits ·_r;fer~~lee ~o t~ese ·i.nsti_~ution:s, · what antic!pa- thnt nlhtihur·s or ruerely locUI concern ·sl.wulu beiert to ·any obSe1;vations he miglit have to m"ake Up'on of· Lord Gre)''s plan.- 11Ibst" huitornble memb8rs · twn could 'all)' Government have oh1. memm're tbo ~egulat.ion oftlw lot!aln.uthoritics: To.tbnt,priu<:Iple

' f t · · d f h dis ' '1'1 1 b I' d 1 )' 1· · fi' ) - · · ' · ,I . .l•nolv:•of,no ganerhl;ax:ceptions,. unless .tu ,c!lse!l -tlicm .~.or n. u m·e peno o t c· cuss1on. 'lC 1e e 1evc were awm·e t 1nt't na p an was 1rsf .. ike this· proposed by Lord, Gfej- ·qeing· cal·ri~d- w11cre locnUnte1·ests may·clllSh :wJH• tliaint"•·r,_ .. ~.u;.Lh..-despatCh w11ich contutned ·the Yntimis proPoSiM proPoundc:rJ. to thc·colony-in the years 183G n

111d: mto effect? Dn t]w 28~h·May; 1841, the Connci,L .:a=~WoJ:..r~l<>rb.....,...,.,~aes ·wMrl:! sowe one ·prcdomi­.. ' iio:i:t.s tci ·which the resolutions· referred --l{ad 1837. , At that period a ske~h:of a sC\H~me si.thi·- .rm:Civ~![~. m!'!s:~.age:i:rdm~t;h~-dVemO'l"""'XCS_:PeCt-' li1mt 'llliiss of n- • co\oniiU ·tmr:icty. mi;'rlt ba lliEposed to

'be··'"!n a . Cdnshlcrn.blc time.l-Cfol"c· th!3 Colln'cil,· -lndn:nll Ha pllii1.d··1eB,·nnd.-iit-iilo!!&'l:1fitS' dCt[l:r...-.- .J,no• t'o'.o,·g'nniz.• ati.·a,·n.· o'. fth, ~.".·e Councils, ·,·u· \'hich excrt.~uch·poiVcri:;;~;o ns unjuauy.to dnpress s·ome fe_eblel:' c· J.i • , . - 1:'-', ~ • ·~ " anc1 defenceleSs closs. It WllS ou. thia g-euer:al principle

·:·Und'th"8.P_i;i.b~c(iit~l~i~6.' · .· The 'cour~SS.'Of· t)te' · was'-forwtil:ded · fi·om England- to the Patriotic \.)VnS the foll'-''ving passage:.-" Among: the tlmt the cxistiug- cOnstitutiOn of'· New South Wnles·'vii.S · . .-loco.l- Government.IInts early pubhcutton·h_n.d· Associntinn, for the ·oOnside1·ation of that bodyt ·lpeosu,rc"s 1Vhich it 1\·ill'Oe my duty-toinit.hte in founded. ls wns on the simlb'gilncral 'p"riuciplo thut tllo · · Crio."bled it·to'·be '.already · cn.re(ull'f o.nd.. eli_tl:io- '·who ~t oncc.:rejected·it. Its p:ro.vi~i()ns, h.o~v~ )'0'?-;t'Pi.cscij(Sr;ssion,·wiU be·oneto make further fl~opus~d qMlititlatiuu.of it lll!l.j·b~ uno~t. Bucees;;fully

·:t:ately discuSsed out of doors; ·mul'from' all the ·ever,· got: o.Drp!l-cl; a.~d l~cre· COnsidered s_o a:b< jl~9,v~ion l"~.Spccting ~he. cqnstitution, and ·to v.in~ic~tcd.. . . . · ·~-- prhicipal·ilistrii::tS ofthc Colony_, he might.s~~,-· ncixiousj :so ~mcon~ti~ut10nal, thn.V .Mr. Praed, · ·de lino and e'Xtend the powers of DiStrict Coun-- Ifth1s were tl·ue, why dtd not Eal"l Grey lea-ve

~tl_lo_Ut ci.~~-ep~!<?~• ~h_es_q_PI:OP.9S,iti_ons h;n;:l_ ~tet 'a yery- ·l·ising· ·member of Parlinn)Crtt at tll:n.t -,~ils ;-<+ St'r~wstly_ rec_om¥1-.~n-~. t~s. imJ,-lOl'tan~·. th~s c~ncer,n to the:m~~lves ~, _ :v~lY d~d no_t ·~e_ · -..vit'fi ..-m. eXpliCit and emi!hatic condeumatton. time, :askerl f"or,iufol:mn.tion on. thS subje~t, ctln~:: ·matter. to ,1 ou1- ~;~.ttentlVe constderatlO'n. • In 1~a-ve thn.t· CaunCJl_ to prov1ttc 10r_l~cnl ~U~l-. . ('Henl·/~~e!~r. ). lie. fcl~ . C_onsi.dcrab!y !9~iciY,e_d 'yeying !t~O 11 'threat -_or. intimatiOn that pc .t.h,c' r<3p~y or~he CoUJ:!.Ci.l tlie GbVe;,;nor found ~c. co:pnl go_ve~~m~n.t,_- such _ns~ -~0~1\d. SUlt! ~h:~ cJ.r-

l · lfT"cipl_ a sense of re_spo~~s:bllrty m, ~1-mg1ng tq.1s would impe!J~h nnY minister who· would br4J:g' h~d·v~_ry ~ttle~·to ~xpec,t, from t),le.po··.opci-ntion· .cumst~nces of-the ~olony- . }.f. there. 'HIS _any ~' •funtter befOre the-Housej that tlus h<td been -forwm.·d such·- a mc·as1U'c .. -Wheth'er from the of .tha~ House m any ~u_ch. sch?JH.1·~- 'l)lat reply tr~th rn-Earl·~rey,s concl~~OI.l on tlus subJe.ct~ J-' the: ·' ·case.;-· tlia't ·-. hon?i:able ·membei~ ·ht\c\ effeCt of tl?is thteat,' m: \V 1\etl\<:!r ·it was tl1h.t ~ts · smt\-:-;-,'1 'l'ti.e_ ·m.~a:sure. w_h!~)t: Y:qm: ~~·c~lUm:Cy why -not -1c«.ve the ~O"r!U~Ion- :C?f these bud.ie~

•·bee:i::t·: ·made· · ·ri.equaiutc(l·· )vith the · Opi:: nntho1·s '"ere E~,slmined of their proc;tuction, n9 · . ~ay p1:0P,b.Sc ~.6.-~a~tqN;ther p~qvision re~pec;t• to. the· only·. assembly . that u~der­·iiiO.O.s'· 'arid·. fcelirigs of the different one_ was fOund to',f~thcr it1 and it coils"eg_Uf:!nAY · 11w the C0hst1tutlon _and· td·dcfinl:mncl ex.te:i:J.d stands what that _ format1o1L should- be? -~olii;titUeri'cieS of thG. co"Uiltry oii. this irnporta:nt _ dicd-Wc.s_ cu_s~·lioned fo~· ~~--time. nut unfQJ;-;- th~ pO;\·.ers of :bishict 9oimeil.S, will engage Tho absmditv of,·this.system· was well exposed

: --aU.bj"ci.C:t'/. Thut.· they \Vere- n6t calle"d .upon !to· ~U}lat~~y 1.t-was not eusluon~d- ~lto~eth-er; ~or .. ,that t>atp~st ~~tention 1\<-htch. the present impe1• the Other nig.ht ·by' the· honcirn.ble member for diScUSS: it in o. pr~mtl-t'ure Ot· hurried .manner; 1t; w~fl ·.stated n.t- · u pubJ!~·· meeting _lnt~ly- -'f~.c~_e6_w~~it~ltio_n pf.thosE(~odie_s;· _a:p.d_ the. para- Auckland~· when :he s]_)ok/{of it as .a -system

:,.bUt they were rilei-ely ·called to Seccind',··ahd held 1~ ~yclney, ~nd he bclteveU-on un~o';lb~ed' mo~~; i~pqrtanceo~ the; subje~tip. ~ lt -y,a.rio).ls which woUld amount to little-more than• 'a sys­·cOnfirm··thC opiriiOns wh~ch ho.d'been seitt hOti:e nuthor1ty, th_at tlus yerr J~en~ur? 'yns r!!ferr~d bennng~; ~e*umd. _A~.the· sa~h(: ~Uhe 1yio·'fe:el tciril 'oflegislntui-C for families, uud nndcr:w;h.ich to ::S:er 1'IajcstY:und Po.rlil)..tucnt f-rom: all·-ph.tts to:ti\e. bte. Go'\'.ernm·, Su::_ G-eor~e G:lPl)"'•. for h~s bound to g').i~:ra ·ourselves ugain_st any pledge ·Its· r;very:'.mall· wou1(1' shortly become- the legis-

. ,. Of' the'· culony;: ·with:·n· view to· 11enti-ttlize the consr4erntwn, and that e':en -he repud1Med; 1t- tO thejJfopriCtY ·of e..-.::tendillg_ powers 'al)n.inst la tor for himself alone. ~ He. would not -de­. ·pro'p,oSed inens1:1re o~· Eurf G:rey, •. Hnd this not as: utterly unfit for- the c_trc~ml~tu~~s- of this l~hiclr~JUID:~l·O~s p~titio_nS . haVe,. ult:~Udy~~e~:n : tu.in tlw House by sri.ying morB ;onllie -gcne1·al. .: have been _the ca!ie, he could not hav:e hoped colony.• If, -however, thts_ wo.s• 1the c.u.se,- he· prC!lented to tliis-Counc1I.;' 'I'llis was a dis~ principle~: involve{1 ·in -this' system of Distlict . 'tb.at 6.uy-resolutimts·o.[ t.hat Ho_u.sc woultl htwe took it, it -m\tst.-· hv.-vc -be-el,·preyious to th~se. tinct .;,yrl\.·ning .of · "tl1e course whlcli the Hou·se· CouncilS, bnt confine: himself to :t1le· details' of ·~any·., goo~·. e~ec~·· .. It_ w~uld ·n.ot. have been collisions \Vh.ich 11ad: occun'c(lso often between· would'.iake.rilt thkinatter. · · B"ut, 'did-tHat'GO.: this particulflr.Scheme proposedJby·Lm·d·Grey,

,.;nQti.ced )Jytl;l.e M~1stcr, b¥Cil~se 1t would have· the Councila~td-the late ~1!!a."cl6f the ·Executi,J-e, v~~·ll.q~: 1~Ccept i1;. ;ns such~- ' NO ;·.'iu-ied;· no tlntlhe. would ro·miu.-k tliat in' no other· BritiSh , appeared to- him- tha.t the Council· wua. only us he wo~d,hardly l~u.ve opposed a mensure:so. doubt 'T)y an:· obedient compliance witH'· the -c-olony,- with the exception· of New Zealand, -'Qleo.ding its own C\luse;nn~ thtl~ caUse w~s 'n.ot- w~ll c:akulated· '~?<!.any_ (mt llis own -views ;ns Poliey::-.of' "Dowil~ng·strc:et, a . short time" hacl• it been attempted 'to· introduce the prinw

i. 'identich.l, with 'thn~ of'tjle·peopl_6 tif. the _crilciny; · ' tluE:I -UI!P.en;re~ ·~·-to ;:be,__ B!-tt · -:Vl-~f\tever · w.as. · aftcnyit~ili; l~e·_sent· ?owll a b'pl to p'n.tch Up_ the! c~ple_ ,:Vhich'"this ineusure• contahted~ '.rlin.t ;:B-ut'- they -\Vcre now.-called.. on t9 record, their· the• .. or1gm ·-of, -the · ,meusure, whether 1ts coi::tst::ltutions of these -Councils..:..:. not' only to priu~iplc, iu fact, was .the PFinciple which pi·e• . Opinions· on tills subject, ns the representatives author .,v?-s .. En~·l Grey;•. when •LOrd llowick, Uphold· them but ~0 Umei-id 'thelri. ·'To affiend ·vffiled lit ·Frn.rice after the first revolution; aild · 'Of· 'tb.e. pcioplc', .·o.~i.d t.ltUs tO'. sh.ow .. tht\.t .t~t~ 'or· -1Fr· · ~ull;r, :he ~t~~ yet _to know co_ns~i~~1iio.n~> gi~!rig ~uCh P.o"'ei:s n~ · --weie ~on:· which after many years of experience \>ns not ~(;;'elirigS of.thC_pi:!pN~- ·.ll,riq, pf _th~ir: repre:;erita7. ·by wh:at:nu.~~Orlty ll;DY muuster: clauncd pl_e- ferred tm thCse mstitutions- \md!3r some' of the tOilnd to perfonn the functions ~tcn~cd. The tivcs ill the colony, on this sl,lbJect, were. t~lO· ·nhry :powers :_to - cnuy· ~llCh_ U.' mcn~m·e -llitO; _'p.trOciOus~ancl -quhcul:ii of clauseS "of tlie C'ollsti·' conclusion to which. that expencl'l.ce -led ·was,

· · same. ·The·. d·capatch· in its- outset states, th'at _ effec~. He . hop~d the j_ntenti~n· which rnO:st ~ti_o'na1. 4.-<?t · ~ _1·elation .to th;e"in~ ThC prin- thilt·the_:p_eople of France Were notrepresent~dj lL tb.e-plim~.iplc: reo.sott .for.·this proposed Chunge ·_ce;-~m.nly ,c.x,I£tct\- o-~ forcmg ·thls-·new.f~n~~:lr:~ .crpi4. ~~Je.t!t· qf ~es,e bo9-ies, _th~;n., :waS to:r~isc· 1Hlr ·could'thcre · b·e the·least · doubt thut the ~1. iil. --thO constitution- of the col?ll;Y1 is· the up:-:- , eonst1.tut10n _upon ·the eo_lony_wo_uld :be· f1u~M ,nn·a~~~s¥fient, to pay' -the ~~J?eJ+ae!l ·of police, sam_e l:c.Sult.:would take plaCe here. '!'he people L ~ proa.chin,.. necessity of the separation of -tl_1e: ~ tr:~t~tl-i - but·. he\ feored -J.f :the 1Jtcsent~. Wh;ig and ·~·tf:h.41 ~~sessm_ent _w~:re. ~pt. ~~~y'pai_d', the of this colony· coulcl not be rep1·esented·undc:r -:~~<Middle :District ·from Port- Phillip.' ;Now. he M1rustry; wc~e no:f ~y som~_fortun11-te ~uc~- :C!o.lol_ltt:-1"1 '1'reu.~ure~ ffii.ght ~ss'l:le his ·warrant! -suc_h n: Systeri. '' "Fluctimting as these· muni~ , ... _-(!Ou1d·!h~t.di:r-'oo\1~i;ve~how. the: Secl'cit;rr.y ~f. _stanc~k1~~e,t~·o-'1t?f pow-er,, b~~l?r~.t~e:proJc,ct ~nd levy .ph!J ~mount·_Jirs_t· o~, ~he Djstrict cipal bodieS wotild be, some of the -members

.. :, .,state ·cou~d. hy·11.ny: 'l~gic!have associated: hi:> 'W!;t~ nfe for _cxeot~tion, that· tlns infrmgeme~1t TreuslU'erj· then on all." the coti.ncillol·s · hnd if dyiiig·, resigning; or going out ill ro~a.­. :: : proji!l:t ·v.7.th· t1i.o :sC!J(I.(ation...of ·Port Philiip nt- :."Oli·thei-::r· ~~ient (lfl~l·~io..liC~nblc- rights _:_,VOuld his q_l~if!.~ were not Bu_~s~~d~ then h~ might tion, it ·would: be·· fOund at last t)lat

"alJ,,, a!i.·.tbey .,vera perfectly distinct.· Th~ be forccd-.upq~ them •. It }Vfl!l'~=qttcrly mcon• mnke the -roUnd of the ·entire "distl"ict., This the- members t:i(·the Legislature, originally ,·, Qpl!ration of sep11tl\tion ~vas tL very ~imp le -Co-ne€~Vab1e,tQ·Ju~.o-l\~~v~wt~gt;O~ds 'Q"lr:,no~l~~'- )wris ~G'J~lsl1.measure pl_opOsed· fqr the Colony. ·elected-by t1tel"n:;-c1id ·not even represent "th:ein. ! -'--()ltel ~it w.us.merolJ:' l?Ppmg off u portwu p\ mi"m nt.the heR~ of_Her :ri!(l.,1esty B colJ?n~lll GO: , :rt.anyrone'~~-ongSt'thcm· ~vere-rich enOugh~ he_ Vll-tually 'the._DistriCt Councils would not be - of·tl1:'elcal_un.y .. r·.b!lt ~iAdtd.:lOtf~ll~w th~t nny ot ver~mc"nt ·supported (th.e ·~heory to·wlpeh. ~~-- .m1ght .nay' eVery thing, whjls.t evCl;·ybo"dy eh:e represeritetl, nor· the public either. Such .re .. . ·.the eon_Stl,tuent'l'Igh&iH1~--~th~~·;of.tp_e!~9~-'~'?ds-~ ,.i_}V~S:!_w::~v~a(~ed. ~n .. prmClJ?l_e· ~~ -was no- now· ::,got' o~ a~?~ fr.ee, y~d -nb ?DPOJ;ttpt~ty giv-eh_' to pl:esCJi.t:i.tiVes cOuld have no sympathy with: the · -~ thus.~t~~ve;ed sh()uld~be. l~p~etl:_o~to~;- ::'J.~Il~Y· · t_:,\11mg-·j -1t h,nd '?een_ ~l'l~d 'b~l~~ 1n, oth.e~ plnc~s ;the VIcbm: uf c_on;tpeq·so.h9n ;U.terwatds:-- He public. ·This was ·-~he· ·system whic1l Fl·cnCh ~ .: -wo:ul~ ha:VC· ~ewer m~mber~t_fur,.tJ~rs d~s~r_wt rf-; '!lldlh"n~-~f~il~d,:.., SBJ.l :m_ol'~ ~:::~9rdntary .cl:i .. d ~vou~d· Df>k 'Y.llS a~y.sys~em_ like this likely to' philosophq-s ·ht\d 'devis'ed 1 but which, ·after a -· · turrlecl, .and. the • ndJU.ncts,:~wlMh -the pre?;:pt 1t. n.ppe_nr-thdt. the. n_tt?fnptfto .mtrodu~c . tips :~g~ec::mtQ. any con~m:uruty? ThC 'Council felt vnin-trifll; had been found inefficient, until B.t ·:,-..~<:?~St~tu~ion ,.rcquir~d •to_ .the. represunt~t1ye: ':me~m-~, :mv~H'yiu.g· aS 1t _dl~ th_9··c~tn.bli~h~€!1t ~t:.~VUJd~hot-!. a"nd ·nctiiW on' .. that fCE:ling in·stend length it 'Vas· s·upel:sedccl and-abandoned.· They · .. ·'''Pn~ctple-; .no.mely1 tKe n;pf.>omtm.;-nt of o.ce.rta,\\ ', o:f J?~h~ct5~o~cil~ nll ?V~.l:·the_ ~olony {ls tlte p"f'·E,o.~.s~cl~rmg: the' btl1 at_ all; threW it ou~ at had·rio ·Enrr1isll· experience: of any sort •.-Yith

:'numbcr __ of "Cro~n nom!n~es, mtght also_ b~ r.f ... ·-~'l:lll"ll.l'.l~.t~lplc upqn ~"h.1c~n~ rest~d, ~l!ould be. .. }"ts ~.~~o~d-reaqJ,.ng. He al.).ti~et1 tq ~his 'only to re~pcet tO the world_ng ·of the principle. The 1:.duced J.U ,a £u.1r proportlOn. . Ot thoy,m1glH_ ·m_nde (liteJ.'·'_the pt'e';'JOUS. v.ttcmp_t·to m traduce show tl:l.nt ·the attempt made to introduce this orilY experience of-it which existc_d wtls the cx:­;_-gh;e, ·them .tU,ost' benefl.ci':llY:a number .o.f ne~v _ -J!i~~~c~ C~t~~yi~~ 'in·~ i':uol~ l.?ss·, obJcetionib;lc ·,ays'te~,_' -~llld(ll: -.·sir · G_eorg~~· Gipps;· J,l~tt" qom- pel'i.ence 6L£<'rance, brid thcr·e it hnd-fo.iled. He ''"!llam.bers. .. '!:h.ere ;wer~-d~stncts. thu.t-were n?t. .. · sh::-pe-_1~.1\(~~?· ~tij.:7).~ -~nll_~~'- nnd hf:ld beene_o '-lJletcly- _brc;>lccD:__,dpw~ .. -nut . the syst~ri?-- now did not tliiiik. that thoy 'sliou1d m·eet tllls at .. ,l45 yetTeprese~tc~ m thn.t;Couucrl; . and m:uw·. strong:ly~!·e~~O!_is~xi\tc~- ~~ru;ns.t by t.h: Cp111_1ctl !propqse~'• _. ·~n.~'- :morP objection~ble' _ sWl. t'empt to •enfol:'Cc·'UJ:)on them. u. question like

: of the old~X: dt~trtcts;woul_~ be more ndcq,uate!y . {md(tllO Qqun~yAtln~g~t:' .f!}loh,_-!tow~v.er).Jwns lie Wou_)_d· go -¥.J:.~o 1 t~e. subject in- peifcct c·an-: this 'with nny lukewarm ·remonstance. -H~ represented by -a~ mcreascd-~umbe~·.~ot mem.;- -the:cnsek-lhe-rem,on~l;iranc_esf '·the petttlO!lS ~f ·1lour; und __ in ~9;.doiilg ·11~ would" saY th.1f he t;J:lollght" 1it waS 'the duty cif the .. COUncil to

·- 'b~ts. .'£her~-was, too, .the ltn:g'} nt\<;l mli_Hlt~o.trt _thn~-H~~\s~ 1?-tHl ~)t_cm:~o~ no cff?~t. · A coun~'T_.. · ?elie,•etl-tq~n~ .. s~~e ~O'di_pum:of mt4)icip0.1 go-·_ spenk 1.hit lJolUlY and declltl'e t1wy w6uld'·n0t •:'ela:ss o_f:the ~q_un~tera~ wl:o ~ad already nsse~tyd acting _u;~fluencc :~e~-?ee~ ~t·worl~ ut h?~e;-_ , Y.!:~·nm~n_t~~ght i!-9-;'{n~tf}gcous~y J;le 'introduced; hilve thi~ ·mcri.stii·e, that tlicy should usscrt , -theit' rtgl~t. to ;Oe .. _representcd, ~nd who:s~ ;a-~~ by ~\·lnch ~? ,~u.nd of. th~ 0 ol~m-~1 _. .Muust;Cl' m to t_he f:R}Ony. ~n.,su~h p_I~_ces as'J?ilfrnmatta,- without· nny hesitation ·their_ inol~enable rig~t ; s~~tion hnd, already b~~n confumed, by -.qt~ ·wu_a ~way??·. l~te-~X~C~lttv~·of ~. f~~~l"er qny!, ~ncl o.~ M~)-~!1~9-· ~P'.ep3,_t_he. ·eountrY1V'as s~t~_lec1~ . W the eleCtive frmlChis"e "of the country. "What

-vo-tes·o(tt\lat Rouse .. ;t Th.at,clo.sl!.,o.f men, -re-, r.U-powe:dul- na lt'wns, hnd·found-It lnlpos~b1~ und· ;n_chj 1t was, he O.iliillttea· fld'Visuble that would t1le 'nOble SeCretm·y o~ State su.y to nriy ;'~idil.lg beyond the b.Ol~itdaricS o.f t~w. colon'>", _ ~o introducq: uny--s}'s~cm -of Distri_ct UOt~nc!lS __ the pUb~~ ,r~ags· .. ~n~ 1rq~J:r:s: shQ41d_te· l,lept_ in· One who would attempt-to clepriv~ him o_f his ·and ;yet m?st nearly.~onnect~d-.wlth lt~ _g:rco.tQst 1 mto tl~~ ~?~OJtY; und thc<~Iop._se could·~ot forpe~_ .or_cl.~~--~~);:.:10cnl.: ~o~i~,s, .. and, pn_id _for ·lJy:. Jqcar franChise ? Would·. he not struggle to resist -'.and-~ost ~mpo:r_tu~tu~terests,._w~re: ~t:presep.~ t~epos!tiY: ~~gust m_ld abh:~nence_w1t~ whiyh: f~d~;·,.:~n~·'if ,t~<.~~,C~.e,tllry, of ,&tat~ _Jjad: rigniiist' such an inv~sion of his ·c0n,stitutiol1al _,de-t~nved;_ Of the ·el~cti~~dl:~nc\m;e\-nltog'~h1_r~ -th_esc. 1.:ilst~t;q_honfl wer~ ·regarded:·:.:t~!ougho?-t · fr~i~~)?.ch _'a ~r<!pOSl.~r~n!, ·t~w. C,ol,l,l_l.Cil wo.uld Ti·eedOJ;li tO the 4enth? And yet they in that

."He ad:'\!:erted to. t~~ p~s1tr0~-of tl~e ·Bq)-lO.t~ers ~n -~~e ·Iength_und·.brcadth_of·tl:u! coll?~Y~c•., He' re-· ':h~v_e asslBted' m c~~(yi.pg such '_'n· ~easure iuto colony we"rc ·as triuch -entitle-d to this privilege

. •;thfu-,~~sped~~mere~y-t~.show.~hnt,_there -~·ere ~t- ;ee_nte~:, thri:t.~h-~ ·atEempt to t?rce·any t;y_stei?- ·or ·.ff»~rati~t!;', lt:·u-~~d hn.VC. :r;~,iev~C). tljc ce,ritral us th17 hobl_e. ~~rl)limsl!lf .. Le; ~hem :efu.~e}_o ;~:p:tescntl~¥rGe bo4yof colpnlBtS unrepr~sente.d, · -J?lstncV ~ounclls -up01~--the.~ ~~Wltry-· .was 1'.~:' ·go':"~tmpe:n,t _frol1"l:_ mu~y A\~<:ultic_s ~1_1;d_in6'pn-, _hnve_ nny~li1~g. _tp . 9-o: Wl~h ~lus nnh·Br1t~h :,-andt~llQ-m·_~hom:'.me~b-e.rJ?·~ .roa:ke·.up_ f{)~ ~l}Y ststed~o t1-_re:.n1!~:ex~~pt, m~el:!d~ b)i'the·few:w~o -vcn~en~es.l_~ --"~·b,tcp.: 1t:waa l:l"?-'Y. stibj~c.te.a; by", _sc~~n;e1 y~olatm~ us 1t . clrd t~e funda.menf:al , ;.defi.Ctenc;r.: mL·.:propC!rt.i?n . 91:? ~ r.~~esentatty;es ·wex:e· .. ~h~_::Will~g }cols -~~--~h~-· G~ve~nor;-:tm_d: havmg ~o ,n,t~e~~ to pur~,ly~o.etqcQ~~~iJ?.S: /..f.h~t: .v.my.Ciple o~ th~ ~ill ?f_R,ghts, h1e ~et,, mdccd,, , in·utl}e:· C~m?cil;:; caused by~; tho_: sepn:atr~n- . who, :m:. n~tc.irip_tUJg tO:.'· ~ssrs~ ~1m by ~h~1r ;»vas ~hf;~~~a~<t,h_n~ hn:q. '!J~eri _recommCri.iled ~~~chae_cureU theTll_rone ofGreatBntmnt~:S::er ·.of,Port(FhUlip-

1 nught -be retwm.e4•; He C:lld not ngency ·m ::,~orkmg ··such. CouncllE, desoned over· and·- o;~e:r' ~gwn ·by:· Pi-Ef' eourtcn,· 'J:hit re- ·PJ.aJeBty and her succensors • .lie wns astonlShed

that n. proposition like this should emanate from the noble earl, for if this constitutional privilege could be set aside, what was to pre­vent any other portion of their constitution from being treated in n. similar way? He con­tended, that of the privileges granted under that constitution this was a fnr broader and i.udefeasible right. than any of them-the others were chartered rights; btit this. was a iight which they had always claimed, and the Origin of which was hidden in those mists of ant~quity into which no .man can .deticend; A good deal Qf opinion had been. expt·eSsecl as to the terms of the resolution, and the original was even thou,.ht to be expressed too strongly. He could not accede to any such opiniOn-for he did lhink, \vhen atte]Upts li.ke these were. made to deprive therri. of their constitutiona[ liberty­to ·rob them· of .a. righ,t which was tl~e very key-stone of their freedom, such attempts should be . repl'oba.tcd in t.he most decisive and indignant. language. This was. the way in wh.ich. they were remonst~ated .against ·of old; this wus the way in which their ancestors had· maintained and ,handed down to them this tj.ght as tho dearest ,posses­sion they could ·~njoy .. But ,they lived in a: milk and_,Vater age. (L~ughter.) The c~n of im­peachments was gol_le by-to mentiqn the word

_ impea.chment was~ow notiq fashion (laughter), though the time was not so far dist!l..n~ whc11 impeachments were not . only th!'ea~ened, but actually· took place.; _and he saw no r~ason, why it should have ceased to qxist. It was this right ofimpeuchmcnt.which struck at the root of all tyranny, It was thi.s right of impeachment which tool~ off· the head of a momtrch1 -because, in the spirit. of a tyrant, he dared to interfe1·e .with the COi)Stitutional H:.. berties of the people. And whGn the Minister of . the .Crown. stro:ve to depriye tl),em of. thy dearest and most valuable of these lillert;ies,:­were they, to sit sti11; were .they tO fileastu·e the terms of their remonstrnn.ce by the rules of <lflici!tl etiquette? 'rhe attempt of Lord Grey to .take away the .fnmchioc, ~vas _one .which de­served impeachment;_ .and. th?-t, he thought, would have been the course wli.ich it would have best comp.ort€d )Vith the. dignity aTI.d. honour to that. Council to .adopt. Th0;t was the plain, straightforward wny--;-the way in which theii· ancestor::; would have met such a_ gross in­fringcmC.nt on theh rights. ··The age of im­peachm~ntB, however, as he .had. said before1

had.pa.s;;,cd by, .m~d. they had. only to sec how­they_ could, in.terms sufficiently_ strong, convey their indignation and dytermin!J.te. resistance to this most .uncon.stitutiqnal measUl·e. And what were the.st~ong expre.s.s~ons. complai.ned oi in the ql'iginal res_o~ution.s?. Let· them se~ whO.t was the language Qf the .B~ll . of Rights itse1f1 as passed in the year 1688. The Sth ~ection' of that Bill prqyi~ed-·'.' Thnt.thc ele.c­tion of i}1.embers of Parliament should be free," The _!Jth-· 1 ~ That the freedom of speech and the debates ai1Cl · proceeding$ of Parlin: ment ought not to be .. impeached or que's. tioned in any Court ·or ·place . out of Parlimucnt.'' These were the privileges which wei·e gun.ranteed.to the "people of Great Britain by the Bill Of Righ~s. And how.· w_ere they claimed ? The . words were-:-'' And theY do claim, .• demand, and . .inSist upon all .and sill­

··gulur thl:l · piumi.t6a- M .. J.hcir .. undoubtci(j ri"'h,ts and liberties." That. was thClU.TI.'gU."tfg'e·t~Scd thCi'e -they claimed, dQmand"ed, and· ihsisted -on lhese liberties. Where wa.S'there any l!in-. guage in the re.Solutions ·so strong as this, and were they to repress their assertion of these rights chartered to them, because"the word;~ they used might be too _p~inful."to the Secretary of State? Wns . not the Secretary of State, when: he endeavoured to set aside this dccla~ -raJion of. rights, ~imself acting in the moSt illeghl and unconStitutional way? The sL~th section of the Bill provided.:...._.~'. That o.ll and singulat• the rights and liberties asSerted and claimed in. the said dcclamtion, are the true, and corr"ect, and indisputable rights and liber­ties of the people of this kingdom ; and. ~o shall: be claimed, allowed, adjii.~ged, devised, and taken to be"." 'l'herefore, .. as the 8th pro-. vision .pmvidt;!d.that the election of members of Parliamerit should be free, they ,vere ,entitled beyond the shadow of a doubt to. the free eleC­tive fl'anchise, and it wus b~yond. the pO.wet' .of .a:n:y.minister to bkc it from them. In fact the declaration amomited tO this; that the election Qf members. shOuld be free, and. that the m em~ bet·s .should have fcee l'ight .. .Ot speech, And. he must. say .that that Council, 'in the. resolntious which he 'Y'-'S now. discussing, would respond but very feebly .. to the honesty, e\\rnestness, ·and vigoUr, with which these 1·ights had been. won aml. maintained for them. They had. not in them the blood of the patriots . of thOse days, when nothing was d.ccmecltoo.dear to Qe sacrifi.ed in the struggle for 1reedom-::-that struggle against oppt·ession and tymnny, ·which commencing in the de· capitat:on .of one king, conel51ded in the cx­

·~elling of. another o.nd his progeny for ever, from the throne. of the Kingdorrl.. This Dill of lUghta, the cluu:ter of their libqrties, was a very diif~nmtsort of assertion of those liberties to tllU:t which he no~v asked the Council to adopt. If he hnd had his· ow1i wriy .he .slwulrl have responded to the proposal of Earl Grey:·in 1\

verr ditl:"'erc:nt manner. I;Ie did believe that .the original resolutions were fnr better than the .prese11t ones-that they would hu.ve-.becn fur more eff~ctU,al. ITe fo.nnd, however, thnt the Counci.l wet·c;: not ._likely to .. apprt?ve of ~hese resolutions, and therefore had .brought them forward in· thei:r presept diluted .shape. He should teserv~.for his reply.nny further nrguH, ments on this. subject, till he had hear9. what" could be:·s.1id aga~nst the resolutions, He .hoped the Council wotildj~ass them, OL' if they did not,. that t~tey would pass the odgina.~ xesolntions, if they did .adopt any resolutions at 1~1.1. ITe tru~tet.l.they would insist upon the ri_ghts whic!t wer.e enjoyed by other. colonies,· and ~vhjch they w.ere. entitled to _under their· present constitution. In the form of that c6nstitt\tion, · it was well known that he . 21-Ir. . Wentwqrth .. had had some hantl, tmd therefore might; be supposed to.regrml it alm<?st \\:ith a parental eye. He., did conte.nd that in "!llOSt rc~pects that con:Sti­tution had worked well. · .. Fettered and en­cutTI.bered wi.t.ll. conditions·· in >Vliich t1lC coto: · nists had. no l)art,:,and ·which. they hd.d uni· · formly protested ago.i.nst, ifi.t.hacJ_ not done good· :-it ~ad ~onc.no ho.qn. .]~_uti~ h_nA done good m p:reventmg a l.at·ge a.pcumulatton of evils. It had done good.in"introducin~ftO that "House a body o_fmen, who, how~Ver fal!-l~y, :tliey ~night b~ in runny respe.cts, had at least been unre-· mitting in their efforts for the welfare . ~f the

colony, Great mischiefs had by. this belmaverted for without. it the close system of the old' Council would have gone pn Without interrup· tion, the voice of the people would'· htive been· powerless, theh hands tied, their ene:rgies de­stroyed, till the groSsest col"l'uptions had grown up, the grossest tyrannies practised.· (Hear, hear.) He would now move. the resolutions.

This Counr:il hnving'lmd unde"r"cO!I_eitlet'utiou thil "Copj·. of a Despnlch ft·om the Right Jlonot•able Eru-1 G1·ey, Het' Mnjcsty's Principnl f:!eeretl\t'Y ot' Stntc for tJ.:tc Co- • lonies, to His Exccl!~,;ncy. Gove1·no1: Sir 011nrlcs Augustus l~itz. Roy, N".o. 203, dlitcd Dowuing-sLreet, 31st July;l8•17, it is resolved tlle(·eupon·: ·

I, 'l'hrtt the e\'cction of Pod Phi\tlp into 11. new pro, vi nee mny be ctfectL•d witl1out.nny fundnwentnl change in the constitution of this colony, ·

2. Thnt the nllegntion contained in: the dc~pnh:h 1 that this Couui:il "hns nbu01•bed an· tliu powel'S of the eoloninl stnte," . .in derogntlon of .. the "balance ond checlts" intended to be established by the Municipal Corporntious contcm{llntetl by tho Imperlai·Act, }i !lUll G Vie., chnp. GG, is uufounded; nnd sr:mtin;; it Jo; be tt•uethnt 1• the Munieipnlities hnvn. only ·n uomil1al existence," their tlbeynnce is nscl'i!Jnble mnlnly to the iucomp!Ctc nml o\Jjectionu!Jlo mnchiucry devised for C!li'I'Yillt; theni. intO effect, rind . t\1ch• evide11t. ini:lppli cnbilit,r to the dispersed ntate of otu• l'uruJ.·po"ltulll-

. tion.. . ' . · 3. Thnt the intention i!ldicntctl in. this D~SJJittcb,· of

malting the contemplated lllunicliJ!llities bcnr. to ·the IIouse rn As~ewb\y '.'.the relation of constituents nnd l'CPJ'osontntives," is viewed by this Council ,;ns mt nttompt to force upou .th\1; celony a· ·JJlnu of locnl ·government not uiluptoU to its .. l'c­quircmcnts ;· nnd if this Jllnn be c"nrl'ied · Out" ugniust the wlshrs of the entire community, ns their

'·vn.r.ious imd unnriimons petitions to. Her l\taje~t.Y :fnd ~both Houses of Pnrli:~.meutnttcst;·it \\ill im;oll·e n vlrtnnl

l'CIJO!l.\ Of the elective fransuhiso,-ono of the innlicnable ri!;hts of the Bdtieh constitution, which Englishn:ien1 necordins to the doctrineofthe common illw, cun'y:with theul Whareyor they sctlle us subjects of the British Crown, •

4 .. Thnf.this Council empbnticnlly denies th:~t nnJ Bt•itisll minister, or nny othct authority, has1 or ofright ought to llnve, any power tO nbrogute this irnmcmoriul nnd indefensible frunchise ; nnd this CouucU n!so cm. "pbo.tlcn!ly nsserts, that the people of this colony lfli.ve tl. I"PSled intcr~st in the constitution which they now cnj >y, nnd that it ought not to be llltered 01' interfei'Od' w1th, unless nt the instnuce of the colonists thcmseii"CS, or of their representnti\·es. Thut if tl1o colonists nru not nltogether su.ti~liud wit\1 tlieir present form ol" con­stitutiott; they -hii.I'C uot yet sought for nny nlteruti~ns or nmemlmtmts thoJ·ein, except those pointed out' In "tlH.• Oonnrnl Grievnuco Report ndopted by ~~large mnjority of this Council, in its session of.l844. .

5. That the .only useful umeudment 111 our prese"lt cnnstitQtiOn, SuJ>sested in this dcsputcll is,_tho propo. sition l'o\nti\'O to a Congress from the various coloninl Legislntures in tlte All~tralillll colonies, with pOII'eL·· to. cnnct lnw6 on· inter-colonlnl questions; · thnt ·such n Congress, it not tOo n~merous, might !Jc got .toJ:"etlJU<' for slwrt perioUs at cert.uin intervuls : but tl1n(nl\ the" rest of the scheme is so cumbrous nnd expen~ive, nlld implie3 so nume.rous, so concentrated, nn1l ~o opulent o. populntion to curry out its indispensable detniiB, tllnt i~ is whpll)• uns11ited to. the circumstances of tt1is CO Ill· munity.. · ·

6 .. Thnt this Council therofor" ohjecits to the. pro. posed cho.nge in the Govetnnlent of the colony, n~ un­c[l\led for, impractienblo, nnd unwarranted by 11ny con­Btitutionn! procoda11fs w bo found cillu•r nt lwme, in the United"stntes of America, or in nny of out· oldor colo­nies.

1. 'fho.t this Cou1icil cnnnot, in conclusion,_ refrnin fronl. the e:.:presslonof its ilclibcr!lto opiuion, tlmt if tlio Right .Ronornb!e tlt\J Sorretnry of State for tho eolonics o:losh•o .•1 thnt the Colonial Gol'crnmcnts of Austrnlnsin "should be setticd on_o. bnsis:o11 which the colonists may, unUer the bl!l3sing_ ·of. Divino rrovitlonco, ~thcmsch•cG eroctinseieutiOus·wortliy'Of t/10 ompiro to wllich .t!Jey belong, nnd of the p.c"oplo· from whom· they nro des­cended," the best, nnd indeed the only wny of nttniniog this end la, to leave its pu~ely Uomcstiu lcgislntion to it­self, unfettered hy instructions ft'om, or references to Downing-street ;-to. give to the Governor nn nbsolutn discretion. in the exercise of the Roynl Pl"et'ogntive ot the Veto, in n!l cnscs cxuept whore impcrinl interests u\'O involved ·-in a word to net with good ftlith on-the conclusion aC which the·uolJio Stwretary lzimsclf ;tppetzra to hnvo Arrived,- 11 .. thnt:the interests of thia colony. mny

-ou-moro promptly, cffcctunlly, und snllifacforily deCided within :Austrnlio. its.elf1 Utnn ·.by the. mri~su·emQLe,, ~hoj',: leGs neeessil1le, nnd, 1n truth, the less competent HUtho- · rity of PnT!inmcut." ' .

s. That these resolutions be .embodied in pemioris to Hcr.l\lnjesty and botl1 Houses ofrurliuwent.

'fhe whole of the resolutionS were con­sidl:!red under dis_cussioD., but were to be put scriatirh, : · · .·

:Mr.' FOSTE~ rose to second the adoption of those 1·esolutions. , "Re was· glad tha_t it had fallen to him to dq so1 iuO.Smuch ns i_J;,.might be supposed by sonic thnt the diStrict ·\vhich he had the honour to·~·epresent was less unfavour­able to the t·eception ofthc llroposc.d change in the constitution than other pai-ts of New South \"V:ales, ti.·om the fri.ct. that no numerous· public meetings ·:ha~ been. held there tO petition against it,· 3:9 had been the case, .~lsewhere. Public, meetings had been held a~ tended by sOine of the most infiuimtial inlmbitUnts but certainly. not. ·by the mass of the ilopulo.tion, who feO.red that in o1jposing a constitUtion they disliked thu might postpone the. attuinmen t of sepamHoil wl~ich. th:ey "longed fo,r. l3ut if Lord Grey _looked" for relief under. his heavy t·esponsibility, as·he intimated_ in lt~s ilespatch1

he (Mr."Fo.ster} \'.'quld. telllnm.that he must tiot look".to Port Pliill.ip, us there wn.s not llll individual" .th"e1·e . whose ,opinion was worth haviri.g, if any at nU, ·who approved of his pro· poSnl. It .appem·ed to hi~ (Mr. F.) that thew were three lH"incipal objeCtions to this scheme,· and many minor· ones: Fh.st. That it ·-.,vas entirely b'nsed· on the establishment of "District . Councils, ngainst which this IIotise had over and over again protested ss bciilg to~ tnlly \irisuited tO· our circumstances,_ and as ut present c·ol)-stitutcd, ruinous tO the .Owners of propci:ty in Such localities. He . .thought .thnt son~e system "of local m·anitgcmentmi(! direction must be introduced, but on a different sYstem from tlw.t.intended.by Lord Grey.·· And when he (Lord Grey') pointed to the· good ~ffect of municipal inStitutions in. Ameiic~, ~g. ( Ml'. p.) >rould reply tlmt no analogy-. cot.ild exist between countries oltogethei". dh:Similar in age_. unci dapa}Jil~tie.s-between , 1111.

agricultural ail.cl . .n pastoral people;' betwe"eri. dense population nnd Scattered· >Vanderers. The fair inference· would have been tri6.t if mu­niCipal insiitutiob.s ·we.re a(laptctl for One coun 7 try that they'must ,be totally U!J.fitted for the other, ·. ·.some Tew disti-icts ev~n iu. this colony might be benefilted by suCh CorpOrations, and doubtless more· ,vould hereafter. Wliy not leave to· the Goyemo"r and LegislatiVe Council the i';)C<?rporai:ion .of .tl~cse p)nc~s JIS · cil·cum­stances niight di!mrmd, for \~hiqh they were the best judges .. Such enac"tments were peculiarly the department of a locn~ · legisla­tu.re, "as Lor~ Gl'ey' · hiinself ··,admitted. Bad as the District ·council~ >yere ·originully they _wet·e likely to bccorrie doti'bly odious "whe1_1. their powCrs were to be· increased under the new constitution1 when they ..;,;ere to havo not· oply the c01itrol Of the)OC<ll funds, but the nomination of the_Supreme Legislatuni!. This sys.tem.· q( double election hnd _bc .. cn' tried in FrimCe nnd had failed; "No l'esporisillilitJr nt­t<lched to \lu~·.representntion till_.the lntcr

·wdtel's on.the'•.French constit.utiou. ha{\" con­df:Jmneci it~ "\v.orlCing, .an~ it had_ consequently been nbundOned, When first tillS innov<ttion was· .Pro1>o.sed1 its f~ilure" was predictcid by-an eminent British_ ~t!l.tesmnn (Btirke) who" had so

cleatly cxp9sed its faults, tha.t he would make f effect would have been most derogatory to thd no apology for reading the passage to them :- character of that House, and. injurious to. the "There is little, or rather no connexion, be- ·interests of the colony. 'fhe present l'esolu· tween the last repl.'esentatiVe and the .fit·st con~ tions, both .in their style and nature, were stituent. The. memb~t who goes to the Na- certainly far less objectionable, but still the· ·tiona.l Assembly is not chosen by the people or honorable and learned member was correct in_· accountable to them. They never can know his anticipution that he would not get a unani- · anything of the qualittes of him who is to mous vote of the house in favour of them. It serve them; nor has he any obligation whatever could not indeed . be expected that standing to them, of n.ll. the powe1·s unfit ·to be "de- in the position he did, that be could legated by those who Jui.ve any :real memis assent to .resolutions, which even yet of judging that ·most peculial'ly unfit is amounted to a censure qn· tlw right honorable what rel\).tes to "personal choice, In case the Secretary bf State, with whose instntctions of nbuse1 the bocly of primary elcctoi'S he was bound to conform. ~e did think. that nevcir cu.rl call.tli.e }'~presentative to an account there were still expressions in the resolutions for his conduct-he is too fur removed from them which had better have been omitted, nnd that in the chii..in of representation." As Lord a l"espectful remonstrance ·to the Home :Go·~ Grey h.rid sUid that tiH?Oi'Y and practice were in vcmmcnt would llnve been more effectual thail

. favour . of Munic.ipul Corporatipns, he (Mr. so arbitrary and b~miclan rissc1tion of rights as F.) would say that theorv ancl practice were \"fUs made in them. It was. quite possi.blc to·· againSt the new'fangled sc1tel.ne of double elec- muke such a 1·emonstrance quite strong enOUgh ·tion,~.the only object, of which was to lessen· without its beirig_ couqhed in offensive tennH tQ.e POwer of that House, and o.t the same tfme which could only tend to the prr•judicy Of the · to wcakei:J. the lcgitilUate influence of the people real object;. of the· ~ousc. ""'iVith ~'.egard to.~the .' upon lt_ •. The only precedent for this system flrst J"esolution, J1~ quite admitted dtaqt can:_·.··

. of double ~lection wu.s to be found i"n the elec- -tained nothing offensiv;e, ami he was also qUite tion of the Prc:sident and Senate of the United of opinion that it was in au·respects advisil.blC States. Now here, 1yer~ the representative of t~a.t the dependency of Port Phillip Should be\

.. the people· i:t chosen,· aud iil. th_e cases cited, erected into 11 new province. Iri his position ag "there was this most essential difference : That a' member· of tho :Executive. Council he.hn'l these, legislators electecl -legislators as in the had the opportunity of going very .nlili.ut.Cly case pf the Senate. The President was elected into the merits af this· question, tl.nd "the reSUlt by ari. electo"ral. college;. formed fo:r that pur:. of the late enquiry, the evidence t"aken .fr.Oni' pose alone .. But" here, on..the eontritry, the nU quartei·s,. left him without doubt that scpa­Legislative :Council was to be elected by men, ration would be beneficial.. Since the termi.:. tht:msclve"s chosen for other purposes, io sup·er- 'iintion of that enquiry, however, he (t,1e COl.O.~ .­intend local.works, for their skill in ma.sonry or ninl Secretary) had visited· the d.istrict1·_had road mald.ng, which would be the.chief object had an . opportunity of personally observing:· 10r ~vhich they· •rould be chosen. Although its vru·ied resources, . its 'population.­such n. man might be a second Macadam he its .rapid progress and advancement; and ·he might be ~-most imp;roper person to whom was entirely confu:mecl in the views whichhC · to entruSt the nomination of. the Legislri.tive ha.d before ado].Jted. For this reason he' was Council. ·:I;.Ooking at the class of men .from glad th'at on this po.rt of ~he subject the Coun­whom thes"c Distl"ict Councillors would, in all cil were agreed-that there. would be" no op- · probability be chosen, he (Mr. F.) could not position to the propositiou to,ercct PortPhillio but think that there would ! e no eitd to the .into an independent province. He believed· meD.ns of eori:uption and intrigue a.t the dispO·· such a measure ~vould be atter~:ded _\vith the snl of the Crown or of any influential neigh- greatest benefit t~ Port Phill~p, whilst ,it ·woUld · bou:r. These dmtgc1·s ha.(l been foreseen in be not at all detnmcntal to the interests of this · America, ~1id guu~cicd ·"against in 11 manner pro vine~. \Vith every desire to rlo everything· from which we an3' pre.cluded in Lord Grc:y's that was just u~d right for Port Phillip, it_ wa~ proposals._. This is well explained in M. De utterly imposstbl1~ that at this disto.nce·the · · 'focqueville's Yalu11blc work, .Democracy ·in Ioe:tl govemment could satisfactol"ily and. beria- · America.· . "But shoulct"'this right of election fi.cially govern that important .district. ·with be _con.fidc.d, to a legislative body, itself the this resolution the!l he corclia!ly agreed. In· usual representatives of the peollie, or ought, the second ~-csolutwn_hc fo~nd 1t statcd1 ".that on the· contrary, un clect01·al college to be the nllegatwn co~1tamed ~n the despatch. of formed, whose sole objeQt should be to proceed Eo.rl Grey, that tins. CounCil· has absorbed all to·thc election of a President?. The Americans the powers of the colonial. state, in derogation Preferred th~ latter course. They thought that of the balance ~nd checks intended · tO b{;'l eS­the men whoin they sent to make their ordi- tabliehed by the Municipal Corporations con­nary laws woulcl represent very unfah·ly the templa.ted by the Imperial Act, is unf£luded~'· wishes o~ the p_eople as to the election of their N?w, what~ vet: the opinion of the· CounCil CI?-ief Mngistrnte.. , Being elected for more m1ght be \~Ith rega~d to the a]legation of ~uil

. than one·· year, they might l'epresent wishes Grey1 he did not think that. 1t ought to be ex­nltotrether- changed 1 • They considered th{l..t if prCsscd in this mnnner. Re could not "cOn­theY'. entrustQ.d the legislature· to elCct ceive that so strong a term, applied to a st_"ute. the ohief, executive power, its memb~rs· ment· of the · Secretury of State, cquld he long before the election would . become necessary. At all. even~~;. he tho~·gJ:l_t" it' the-objects of corrupt artifices, and· the play~ must be conbeded, that a MtmsteJ: of repute fOr· thing. of "intrigue. Therefore, like to juro.rs1 h?now.· D.~"d. ability and Jn~cgrHy, .. so higp. as: ·' .these speei,ll electot·s should remain midis- that of Lord Grey, must, ·m any measm'e he· tinguishcd'fto~ the mass, until the day when contemplated for this colony, have had its :vel­they shoul.d pronounce their decision," Here far_e at heart, and that whatever errors.he:may such precautions u.re impossible, as the Dis- havefallen,into, us to.thcpoliticalpowerofthe t~~ctCo1f(tQPs.~vill o.lways existi.lmown·by all, colony, in 1·elati?it t~ the Governmerit oii:on8 .and distmc~· f1'on:i"the .prim~·y electm·s. ·The h11.nd ':nd th~ DlStri~t Qouncils. on ·th_e, ot;t.er~­thhd, o.nd ].lerhll:ps the b'l"eatcst; objection he ~hat su~h :rrors have occurred inadv~rte~tlj-. ( Mr~ F..) e_ntertamed to the:w changes·was -not The maJonty of · honorable members in _that· to "be found in the· deepatch itself;-•but from Council-a majority of the colonists out of whnt thCy knew of the fi"anehisc in New Zen.: 4oors, might diffur ti·om ltis· _Lotrlship hi :the ln,nci, and Lord Grey's intcntioris ·\'el"bally ex- conclusions "to which he had ·al'l'iV"ed; but theY pressed; th.fire could be no. doubt that "\vhoever would hardly impute. to him any desire. tO to.kc could· sig'i1 his nnme would be entitled to ·the away _the consti~utionallibcrtie~ of the· pe_6ple, franchise. Now, if such a fruncllise were de- or to mtroduce mto the colony uny svstem of· sirable !.).ll)'Where1 . which h_e did not be1ieve1 it govemment or legialature.wh!ch inigh't lCU.d to wus peculiarly unsuited to this count1·y, which confusion Ol' disaster. Throughout the desPatch from its oi·igin and from the sourCe whence for of Lord Grey .thct·e was. the most llll.Xicius: de­Some· time. it wns likely to derive its popnla~ sire expre!js_ed to proyide a fot·m of govci~:;~ent tioh"1 wus not one in which to tt·y such an ex.- that might not only w~rk be11eficially",-·· but pe:rimcnt. Also; because its popttlution was w~ich wouhl also be in accordance with the the most _-uneducated of all Briti~h colonies, Wlshes of the colonists. This was the. spirit in and frOm. ·its -«er).- scattered nature must con- which the whole desPatch was conceiveci"~and. tinue t~.r1 ; 8 ·Hges to be ·so. Difficulties w~"itten, and that it is "so, the 1. nst p<lrngraph js existed i,q the \¥ay of education in all conclusive proof: Em·l 'Grcysnid- · parts .o"£1

· the :world, ·but in a ten-fold Whnt I hn\'o Wl'ittcn \i'ill, howeVCl', I trust, be "Snfii-1icgtce ll here from . no fault of theirs. ci~nt to retievu the (ln_xiety of the public mind in N.ew H ' d h Soutlt•Walcs,t·espeuttog urruugcments pregnnntw1tb

. e warne t .. e grn·ernmcnt i~ot to. place ~oo l'esu\t~ so momentouS to that pnrt of hel' .1\lnjost)''S do­much. power m the hands ol the workmg millions, ;md thcJ•eforo so dollply intet'estins to .ev"efy·. clusses. They had seen the opposition entered nthcl' mcmbcL' of the widely extended empire Ovel' into by them to the intl"Oduetion of lnbom·.. which her J._fnjesty reigns .. It will bb no slight relief to·. , , , · . , the .l'CSpoustbl!ity of propos1ng such a ollnnge to .find I hell' power wouhl be used to discourage any myself in poss~ssion' of the most. complete locn.l intelli.. free immigrntion. :q:e wished at present scncc, nntl suppo:·t~d by the opinion of tho most emi­to \'!Xpress no· opiniOn on the subject of the for- UQnt Jocnl nut_hot·tti?S- I need. SCIII'~ely ndd tbnt it will

ti f ·u . H b · · d . bE! a souz·ce ol tha !HI{ hest gnltlficnhon to mc if, undnl."' m a .. on. o Up. .. pp er . onse, , :mg esirous J:o the authorit.)' of Pat"li~tmeut:, . ~he· colonial GoveL•nmcnu mn.mtmn unnmmtty_m oppos1t1on to the l"CCep- of Austl•nlia can bu set.tleU .ori o. bnsi~, on which tile tion of a cOnstitution which combined in it so colonists mny, nn.det·~ho _bl_csslng of Divine rrovi~o,nut'• m;o,ny confi.icting principles - the wildest the~nsdves erect UlStttutwns worthy ot thc cmp1rc to

.. . : , . wlne~h they beloua, llnd of the pcoj>lc from whom tlloy. dcnweracy lll t.he el~ctmg mumc1pal bodws-nll n~e descended, . . .. the evils. of a jobbipg oligarchy in thOse bodies They ought, therefore, to gi\'e the Minister when electEd-weakness in the Legislature1 and 'Credit for good intentions, and add1:ess. him in dissensions. amongst all.: thus leav-ing them a terms of respect and courtesy in any represen.:. p~rey t~.p:inding- tyrnnny on_ the llart of the tations wl~ch they might fincl it their duty. to ~~r~wn 1t 1t ~ho~lcl ever be d1Sposed so to ~et. mak: to him. Re thought that,, with some .ex-· rius constitutwn w<J.s qmte u~-Enghsh, ceptwns1 the measme proposed by Lord "Grey, it lt.nd. well. been cn~led at one of. the 0.!3 a constitution for this colony,. ,Vould. wOrk pnblj,c -111eetmg;o a. clnld. .of the .French vastly better thau the present one, .(Ironical ltevo)u~ion. His hono_rable friend the member chc"'r".) 'l'lw formation of a second ho"llse of for ;:;ydne'y had referred them to·· English his- members, nominated· by the Govcl:nment tq_ry and .the Bill• of ltights. He (ilir. F.) would give that balance1 . >Vould aftbrd.'.thea~ wOt1ld carry .them back still. further, when their constitutional checks to the power of the.i:Jre· ancestors wero nssembletl at Jlfcrton; the go- sent Legislative Council, which it was so de-

. vernment. o·f. the d~ty wis}~ed, to introduce _an- sit·able Ehould be maintained. "\Vl1nt po>V.er he otherfore1gn bantl_mg. lhen·ane~storsreph~~: woul~l a~k.had the Crown under the present

·wut wee, _" Noltmu1· leges A.11[Jl1Ca; mntan, conslltutton? No doubt the Crown. did nomi­So li!t them reply, and if through their impo- nnte a proportiOn of the members of thi\t tence this i\bOmination wns forced upon them, House; but it only had.the power to nominate let t_hcm at least hnYe the cons?liition of t•e- one-third, s.o that·on any, popular _questiop._tbe fiectwg that they hqtl do_nc thell' duty, thnt representattve members could insure.'ll majo-. they had not. betrnyed the confi.Uonce reposed ritr. It was thuS, that what in his·fit·sfscirieS in them llY their constituents, .futd not have of l'esolutions, by some freak of ·ms hereafter to weep over like womeit whnt they imagination, the .honorablc mo.vcr . ·had: had not defended as men, (Rear, hear.) described m1 . "the wholesome and consti~·

'!'he. COLONIAL SECRETARY: The tvtioual collisiOns'' betwce·n the Executive and" whole .of t.~~e resolutio:US having been brought LegislatJ;ve brat!ches had occu~red. _(Hear.) before the. House, although the .first t>f the Re IWght tlunk such collisions whole'" series, was only forl}lally before them, hens~ some and constitutional; . btit he :(the sutncd ~hat he ";ns at liberty to speak to ~he Colonial . Secretat·y) den9,nneed them as whole of t_hem, uncl he felt ,t,lllt on such. a very most dangerous - most:· detrimental .. to important st\bjeet, he could not altogether be the good of the colony nt large, und produC~ content to give·.·a silent vote. And before pro- tive of ill feeling and discontent in the mi.D.ds ce~ding fm:ther in the expr"ession of his opinion ·of dHferent classes of the .people •. It witS tO. the. on the present resolutions, he must state his honornble Und learned· member himself nnd to gt·a~ifiQation, that the h~nbrable and learn~tl thqse whO voted with him, that thcy:,;ere..in­mover t?ftl~em, had been mduced to make thu.t debted to .the series-of collisions to .whicll they modif~sation of them as they first appeared on had becn.cxposcd, and which he. Could" not but th.e papcl', which gave them the shnpe they ·think had. been ·not only the cause. of. mUch nqw:itss~t~ed. ·He coti.ld not but feel that had .mischief1 but which had been. the real _.origin the o;riginul resolutions . been carried by· the of this despatch; If this measure we;re llow so Council, tmd had been sent home, ~ho.t their very distasteful to the hbnoruble; und learnCd

• member, he might thank himself and those who_ upon them ; a. course which was almost certnin of two separate houses would be extl·emely voted with him for it, He contended the u.p- to produce most unfortunate arid unwholesome beneficial. In ndvoca.ting the severance of the pointment pf the nominees by the govemment, collisions. In the uppPr house such ril:eaaures legisJative functions .of the :representatives of afforded no just balance between th.e power of might be. modified, il.nd at all events a body the people nnd the nOm~nees (Jf the C1·c.nvn, .he the Crown nnd, of the representatives of -the leaning not nU to the Government or all to the kne\y he '~n.s touching on. a point which was people. In England, the House of Commons people would be thus provided. In this I'C- open; to. eyery variety. and shadc:of. opjnion. held but the position in matters of legislature spect, -therefore, he thought it most desirable That it was one .which C_ould, by ingenuity, as of 1 to 2. It wus .true the representatives of that the law should be altered. be argued with seeming conviction either way-u. the peOple. there did legislate and pass mea- With respect to the question of double election, qucstiou-Qn which m.cn· of equal ze(ll, equal in M sures, Put they were cheeked·first by the con- he was weU aware thttt the colony had loudly tellect, and equal ability, came to different con­stitutional interference of the House of Lords, expressed an opinion very averse to it, nor 'ill~ clusions. This much he felt bound .to say, in and. also by thlit .. of the Queen. It wits neces- he himself regard it. with any particular favour. deferencr to the honorable 'and learned mover, sary . .that .the. popular element should have He thought it better that the .franchise Hhould as he fcl,t tlmt. s.omc excuse was necessary for these checks; h~rc they had only the govern- be· more extended. He was .aware that the him in tt:king . the coul'Se he did that night. ment, for, as he had said before, the effect of proposition now·made by Lord Grey.wl_l.s nOt a But- the 5th and 6th resolutions did not- mise the-nominees of the Crown was not to p1·cserve new oue, and that it, had seve~·al· years back the question whether .there should- be two nn:Y. fair: ·ba1'ance rof -power. He ha(~ always been proposed that District CoUncils or County. houses or one. The resolutions were-:­_tho)J.gh,t that the absence of the check Courts, as they were the11 called, . should. be l. Thnt the only useful amendment in· our present of . a sepa.mte house, where the . mea- erected in the colony, and made the basis of. a Coustitu~ion,·suc;-geBted itL this ·desputr.h is, tile propo·

i' th t C 'I I·' •· f 1 1 • Th fi h sition re)nth·o.to n Congt·c~s ft•om the vnriou~. eolonitd !i!UrC!> .o ... 1\ ounc1 wou u ve l'e·CO!l· system 0 _pupu are ectron. · e rat. e sn'V Loglslnturcs in·tho Austt•nihiTI colonies, with power.to sidet·e.,.d n.t\d,~·evised, had operated most in juri~ ofi~ was when it wns btbught out .to thr-·colPJJ.Y enact Ii1ws (•it inter-11olonial questious; thaL such:\ ously~ _ , It l}nd served to bd~g the. people and. by Sir Gem·g8 Gipps1 who pointed out to··:the .Con!!'relis, if not too numeJ•ou~, Triight be got tngethcr thc.Go.\",Cl'_qment to.o directly in eontac~; nor was Government u.t_home that that particu.lar form. for short periods .nt ccJ•taia.intcrvuls; bllt that oil the l d I bl d rcst of the schcmc is so· cumbrous and expensive, ·lmd le a little surprise to find the lOllOl'll. e ~m of Government was not suited to this colOny; implies so nuineruus, so conContl•ate!l, Hnd so opulent n. lew:n0t1 gei1tlemu.n who battled so strmn;ly for With regard to District Councils he had So 're~· :populntion· to cm·ry.out its indlj;penell.ble dotnils, that tl~c.~.uglisl.l constitution, ,defending that of this ccntly cxpr_cssed hiR· Views upon 'them, that it lt is.whollyun!juitetl_lo the circumstances oHbis com­

·t:Olo;tJ', whic4. was in fact a complete. innova- was not necessary for him to go nt any length w~.ni~{;nt thlo Councl~ theJ•cfot·~ objeCts to the pro. tion _qn·thc .. English constitution. It was only into. thut question. He. _would, how.ever, say posed ch:mg"e in the Government of the colony, us un­triCd here a.~ an oxpcriment, und with the that it appeared that the objections expressed en lied fo1·1 imprncticuhle, nnd nnwnn•nuted by any single. exception ot JS'ewfoundland, had not generally against these Councils were· objcc· comtitutionnltJrecc.clcnts to. bo foun!lcith'c.t• nt home, been_i:r;lrpduced into u.ny other British. colony. tions.less of p~·in~?iple than of. practice .. '!'he ~~~l~~~~~~ited States of America, or'in aDy of our old~r It h:-t.d not been applied to IU.lY of the .oldest CotulCils :were looked.upon by most people as· ·No doubt · th~ ·:ternis ·or- the' resOlution were colonies .. TheprovinceofCanadadidnotpos- mere taxing .machines. (Hear, ·hcnr.) But f ·-• l · b t th

· · · l d '· b d h W I) : Q • . _gc:ticl'tu. c mracter ; u e sess_lt,.I~ 1a .not ueen estowe on t e est he, cquld not say that this wns any :grammatical conStruction of them would, Indi.an :cOlOnies·, this was the only <1e1Jen~ obicction t.o them., All representative · b · · d ·h h

l ~ . 1t mtist · e . pe1·cci1Ve , s. 'ut o.ut. t e derlCy of Gieat Britain in .which this nnoma y !.bodies had· the powers of taxation given to . opinion that two ho'uses were better than one. had bCen ventured to be tried·, and why it was them-:-bllt if the effects oftaxation would ·have The' sixth resolution, indeed, went to condemn introduced lJCre·he was ·at a lOss to conceive. b'een so ru.inou.s as was described by some · · · · the whole scheme; and to· state thnt the con· It C:e.rtail1ly' .did not appear to him to h::w~ been h.onorubl. e member;,, would .any body be so · · d · · h l ' h 1 l d stltutiOn propOse to be. given to t e. eo any at 'all n. successft~l expedmeut, .10l' e oo >.e foolish ne to believe th!lt those Councils would was unwnrnuitcd by u.uy constitutional prece-upon it. as having been productive of a scrie!> of tax to that extent~ They were themBelves·the dent at home; in the United St'lteS of.Americ!l, coW.sions between the people and. the Govern- parties to contribute to such taxation, u.nd or in ·il.ny of thS: older colonies, Now, ·he :me~t,_ which he· repented must be most da:n- thcirefore they would be cautious to avoid any could not think thUt .this Council could be 'gerous to the best interests of the country. Tl.le intolerable excess of it. The honomble and honoi-able and lenrned member ±or Sydney hurl leamcd ineffibet said,. that the renson the Go- .watrai1ted in s:iying this ·in reference to that

pnrt Of the proposal for .-the erec-said ·m.: refation · tci that portion of Earl vernment was so anxious to have tl1ese ConnM tion ofn. second house. Such a cOnstitUtion, in Gre'y-~s despatch, which spoke of ·the anx\ety · ells established wa_s, because it would. relieve' fnct., ,\·o~lJ. bens near an approximation to the that prevailed in the colony on the subjects of the revenuc.and im:rcase the patronage of the British.form of governmen. t as possible; :and the despatch, that there was .no anxiety, Government; but he w.o.s not aware what p.a~ ·to the colonies, instead_ of sUch a constitution that he had heard none expressed. But he tronage .. it would give the GOvernment. Such' being Uimsual, it wns the ordina.ryco~stituti~n thbi.1ght on l'efiecti6n ·he would admit thnt a, bod.i.es would provide the funds for the pay- of the col.onies, whilst the co'nstitution of thiS ID:e .. iltdeal.of anxiety had .beCn .manifested us mcnt.Ofllolicc; butthe,·wouldalso haVe .. the l · · h - h'll' · · colony \vas an u most solitary exceptton to t 7e to.tlte separation of. Port P 1 1p. Petttwns power of seeing thnt their police force wu.s generulr~le. Ffndirig,onreadingtheresoluti6ns and .,.representntions . to that H~use, established on the most. economical footing.j attentively, this to'be the case, he had found and to: Rer MtljestY, had been pour.ed and he ventm·ed.to say, that in all the cithe, it necessary to.prepru.·e an .amendmeil.t ·'on: the in.:- .up::m ·them on. the subject, distt·icts of the colony,·as had been the caso in Subject, which_he would now read to them, evincing· .that the continued union of the· two Sydn.ey and Melbourite, it would be foUnd that and then_ briefly explain the reasons which hMl districts was considered n great and crying in n. very short time- the expenses. of police. brought COnviction to his mind ;-;-not dCsp<lir­gn.· evm~ce, ·Then the . honorable member for would be curtailed at least one-fourth, whilst

d h · · ing ·that similar reusons might induce-them to Pqrt Phillip, Mr. Foster, informe. them -t. t\t th~ duties would be .discha'rged. much more arrive ,at the same conclusions. The amend-· the-constituencies of Porh Phillip did not com-. satisf11-ctorily. But as long afl Government_, ment he 'woUld move when the 5th resolution ·plain ... o.f_th~ constitution of that House, .'bU~ nt had to inanag-e these things_;_as lonf7 us· th. e. · d

d 1 f l ~ o wos propQs~ , 'vas-al~ ev~nts they had complaine enoug 1 o t te payment of these local matters .was made, out, Thnt this Council secs no objeCtion to tho sug;cstlon votes of the. gouse. (Great laughter.) He of the genel:al reyenue-:-no amount of exp'ense of nu intel"-co\oninl coug1·ess, p1·ovidlld it be uut too J!u­could J;J.Ot,see that there.was any ground for the that could be lavished upon them would ever mcrou5-lJeldshortscs5ions-undmectntfixcdintcrvn!s charges made by the honomble aml lea,rncd give satisfa~tion, because it WI\S the inlCres_t of lime. Thnt this Council is'nlso disposed to view fH •. m~mber for Sydney, ·of underhand agencies. of every peculiar district -to induce· the Go-· ~~~t:~bl~ot~t;ct~~P~~i~~?~1 ~~~e,~~r~1~!~ ii:~s~d!~e~~~ior~~ having .been at work, . The present 'consti- vernruent to spend the highest possible amoun~ 11resent..\tivCs of the IJeop\c, consillel·ing thn.t sueh nn 'tutio~ ~vas lmown. to be an: experiment, und if of inoney upon that district. n: hud. been nt'l'nu:?cmftltis in acco!·dnnce \\.'ith English prelleU.eut, it 'Ycrc fo.und to work ill, it would be tite duty ur"'

0ed n"'o•.ins. t these District Councils that ex.- is likety to lead to more careful nnd ·~nr1·ot:t IPgishition,

f h G ] 1 · to pl'O\'Cnt dis:lgl'ecnblo collisions, to fncilitnte tlie o t e overnment nt .. wme to .a ter 1t. cessive vowers were granted to them.· Ad..: expreSsion. of puUHc opinion, nnd ·a constit.ut.ionnl Anothet . part Of the. proposcid constitt.~t:~n 1ilitting thnt this was !.'0 under the Constitu·" control over the publie cxpemljture. · whicry. he . thought wouhl . work ~e- tional Act, he did ;tot sec that i~ n'ecessnrily These, then; were the; reSolutirms he should markuhly. well,. w_;:ts the proposal .to followed that under a new system of Councils move in lieu of the 5th jlnd 6th.ofthosc moved establish a Centrnl Co~gn~ss, • where tl1e clauses qonfen·ing such inordin:tte power~ . by· the hon:orable 'nnd leamed membel' for general Ques,tions affecting the whole of the might not be modified. He. must, however, 'Sydney. No\v, in going into_thil(discussion, colonies might l,le·di,sc.u.ssed and settled .. .Sncl~ ·congratulate the honorable and leru:neQ..member he. \yould (irst state -his .·Opinion qf.'thy ptescnt aS the'.imposition of duties of.lriiport. ot export, t for Sydf!eyon ;the. clinnge that l!ti.d ut last come 1 CoristitutiOi'{'of the'Colori'y. ·It':wns notoriously or the means of communication. The advnn~ over hip.'!- in his opinion ,Vith respe_ct to munici~ nn experirnent~resting_ entirely on n cli:ff~:rcnt ta9es.of- sOme sUch ai-rn:D.gement ns this were pal institutions. Formerly he was opposed. to . foundation from that of the British Constitu~. ev1dcnt, for by a rilutual consideration of the all of them, . even those of Sydney and :M:cl-.· tion. The theorv of the British ConstitUtion interests of .each proviLlCe t1w welfat·e of the bourne follm1 no favour in his sight, but 1iow· ':was not that the pOpUlar will shoUld be uricon­who~e might be:_protected and prom.oted~ .. Al- he ,was willing to extend 'them to other parts: o£ .. trolled, ·h was not that, in all instances, the re1idY their: comrnunicO.tioii_ with the colony of the colony less .densely populated. He, for ·minority should be .subffiitted to the tyranny of Va.n Dienlen's. Lai1d had suffered from the one, had tak~n p.ni:t' .in the Iegislat~cin.:w):lich , the, majority. H therefore ·gave three voices wailf Of this anangement. . Under the in.stru,c- had incorporated Sydney und Melbourne, and· in matters of legislation-those of the Crown, tions of tlic Secretury o£ State- that there he had never repconted doing so, as he believed the' Lord.i:j and the C~mmOns. Therefore, should be n9. distitlC.tiQn o·l). articles imported the measure .had been productive of rimcl~ above the popular voice, was one form~a into the: colony, it was: found impossible.to im~ good to both places. He udt:O.itted that chamber superior in dignity, and both were ji6rt thC prollnce of Y an Dicmcn's Land free of thei·~ might be dist.riQtS in the remote subject to the will of the Sovereig1i. 1'hat ·w:ns dUty. It was rendct·ednbsolutely necessary by purts of the. colony, from 300 to 1000 the principle of. ·the British Constitu .. the letter of Lord ·stanley that. these· duties miles in circuuiference, with .not . more tion. And . he contended this to be. a should' be. charged, and they were charged. _than ten · employers of labour 1·esiiling ~·igh~ and 8ven principle. -'1'0 .. partake This- produced the retaliatory )lleasures of upon _.them, but he, .should" l!e .disposed to of this COnstitution was the natural u.nd inde­placing a high duty on the tobacco impm·t_ed in- look on such districts more in tlie light-of_prin- f~asiblc iight.of Englishme.lt, and a cons,tltu­to Y£m Dicmen'~> Land from this country, and ·cipnlities than of municipalitieS. ',Plc hon. u.nd. tion.l?onsisting of n chamber of ,elected repre­aii'ad vnlorem duty of 15.i)er cent. on- the stock leamed member had said that the C'o,uncil was seritativesofthe people, and anOther ~hamberof imported into the same colony ham here, the the pr.opcr body to appoint these mu:rliCipalities. permanCiitly·appointe(lnominccs of the CrOW}l, value_ of which he found by the tables of stu- -but it seemed hardly_consistent with ~1.is ex-. was the nearest approach .to it, 'Why then tiBticf!· amouri.te;d )ast yeil.r to from £35,000 to ho.rtation to the Council to thwnrt these.Coun- ·should they exul~ in the _rights' giv~n: by the £40,000-a mensutc which wns mos~ inimical cils in Cvcry way. , commoi1law, and yet 1·epudiate that law when to' the interests of this colony. There pre- Mr. \VENT\VORTH eX1)1aiilCcl. He said asked to take. it? They were unworthy of the vniled· n pretty universal deSh·e to see these the Couneil was the bOdy to 'form th~t modi~ comm'on la'v H~ on their ussi=rtion of it, they re­d~ties ·removed, and· he .. doubted · not c~1.m of municipril. government for which the fused to have it when given to thym, m a that · WCl'C ·the. interests of. both colonies :colony was· at present fitted, gl'ievance. In England_the great power claimed cai·efully_ considered, their' i·emoval wOuld' The COLONIAL SECRETARY had but by the reprcs-ent"utiv~s of the. p~ople was the. be fouml equnlly advantageous to both. The little more. tQ ridd. He thought the Council had right given to fi:cely express opinions. The facilitating too the advantages of ~team cam- scircely .tnken the cOurse to' propitiate the Rouse ·Ot·Commons was the clear expositor of munication between the different colonies and Home Government in its fnvour, therefo1·e he pu.blic opinion in the country. B. ut the public Europe and the British posse_ssions in other could nut vote foi: the resolutions in ~heir pre- had still £mother; right o~ expressing their opi­purts .of the globe arc assuredly of this soit, sent shape. He still hopqd that_such t\ltcra~ nion. t~ll.ml!ly, by peti.tion. .'Where, then, ·any aild ·there .. were many other equally impm'tnjlt tions might be made in them O.fl might lead grievance wns so crying, so strong as to call for duties· which it could perform. 'l'l:te machiqery him to assent to them ; but he should reserve the intercession of Oovcmment1 Parliament ofs_m::h !)h uSsembly mightse.~m som~what_!!Util'- liberty for himself to vote at his· own discretion would pronounce.upon it. This was .. not the br<;ins, but if the arrangements were propel'ly when he saw ii1 what direction the discUssion. case ,i,•ith their own Council. They had not milde-:-=-if such· a co·ngress lissembled .only nt tended i at present the fuSt was the only reso- this uncontrolled right of expression. But ·he a certain fixed time, OJ;J.Ce in, say every two or lution he could support. ·cOntended tlfe Council oUght to possess it. If three years, he did· think tlte opinions· of the' · Mr." LOWE: As he· had an ·nmendment to-: , evt!n a small majority agreed to any petition on mpst wealthy, intelligent, and infl.uential cola- ,make on the motion of the! horiorablci ··and nny grie\'ance the prayer of that petitiun ought nists,·on matters of geneml,impor~ .to the whole 'lcarnell mCmbcr for _'Syd;wy; ,Vhich hC 1vri3 to. be carded out. This, however, was colonies-he therefore thought·that this propQ;, ·anxious to laY nt once bef9re the Hou_se ,.in_ a .nOt the case: Let. them lool( at their sitiori-ivould be highly beneficial; and ll!;lit was distinct and .tangible form, in order that: it :.Qtown;!Inl~d_' · grievance petitions, th~ir peti­mo.de nn exception to the cens-ure cast on Lon~ might tttke no one by surprise. and be tho- tioning to bC able to exportAustrnlinn corn into Grey's despatch in the rest of t!1e l'esolution,_ roughly cliSI)USsed, he took the em·liest a·ppor- :England ·free of duty-all these, though the ex. though he could not_ ·affirm the whole of the tunity of rising On this question. After the. PrcsSiOn of a vast majority of the representa~

'xesolution, he was firmly uf opinion that this very dear and luminous speech of the horror- tives of the colonists, were. still.ncgativcd. proposition wouldbemostbenefic~aL It was said able and leamed member-a speech which en- . The effCct then of the constimtion of the -l)re­that the1;e were.nnt the· materials for an Upper titled him to .the. thanks of. the country :md. sent .Cou:D.cil was to stifle public opinion,· tO HO_us_e cif Assembly in this colony. He could the· House!, he felt ·considerable djffi.culLy in . Prevent it beirlg cxp:t·essed ttltogcther. The. ndt:buUhink thnt those who· ventured to make hnving to differ from him on some_ points. He· ; Governm.ent had nt any ,time. the. power to do· SUch> a Sttlterilent as· this libelled their countrv. was, however, 1·ather surprised_at the ductjli_ty, thi.s_, They might bring down measurCos at any

· Hi:i. thought they might as well say they were nOt or if he might say so without disrespect to one time towards the close. of the session, and en­:fi'tt_ed for popular institutions at all. Already of his )'ear:> und experience, tlu~ docility with si1rc a ritajol'ity._ '!'his had bceti.donC over mul they had twelve gentlemen nominated to:seats which he had suffered himself to be led uc-· over· again .. Now this could not be done _by a in that Council, 'tmd would it be said that carding -to the .wishes of viidous honomhle .second house; .a. second house might not as­thesci members were not reSpeCted ns much as trie'mbcrs _to . nlter his origint\1 _resolutions. sent, might aniynd o.nd alter the bills they sent any of the elected members? '!'hey could act Agre~ing as he (Mr. Lowe) did witl.1 nearly to it,. b~t ~he~r petitions an.d resolutions they as well_in a separate Rouse us in a mixed one; all the hcnomble 1md- learned member had could not stifle, they could not -touch them; aud he' thought· the existence of n secOnd stated-cordially approving ;'or the great prin· these ,;,verc the acts of the representatives of the house-would be a mo'st·desirable_constitutional ciple laid dOwn· by him-still these reSolu.- pe.ople·~ild thei~·s aloll~. The upperhousemight. cp.eck ·an the :Powers-of the rt!pr~sentatives. I~ tiuns fanned as they wen:: co'uld not have his make counter-resolutions, nnd sue\!-. co.u~ter- . would nfford- too."·nn. opportuniLy of n most support, holding the opinions_ he did, and resolntf9ns might'·bc held. in. greater resp.cct wholesome l'evisiori of the measures of the which he would presently . explain to· the· than tl,lose of the lower_ house, bnt he thougl~t lower .. house--:-alid erro1;s would be· thus House. He must say .th.at he· hdd th-is w:t;~NJ.d-not be the case amongs_t the officials ayOidcd. It would also very_ .ben7~einlly i,n- Come·. to . pretty_ much the . srune .con· in l,)o~ing-street.. He_ .thought that the duce· greater care and moderation m the ·mea· ·chisions on two , of these resolutions ripper house woul}l- be. well. known to be mol'.e sitres adopted by·this Coun9il· than .prevailed as had J.jeen arrived at by the lio_.norable Cola':. malleable.than the lower, that it would be mbre a,t present. But at present any mensnras were I nial Seci:etw:y. Ho thought_.the constitu'tion. under the influence of Downing--street, and s~nt up d~~·cct- to the Goy:emo~,. wJlOS~ on_ly of the pl'escnt Coun_cil was verY .d~fecti":e, !"ln<:l. tha·t in .i-eality its, weight or _infiueq.ce thro:e power agamst them was to pronounce hts veto thi:tt a retw·n to the old Constitut10nal prmctple \VOuld'bd i'iitlnitesimi:i.l(y sti'l.all. 'fb.~i·efore, ns . , -' .

the expression of public opinion-as opening the eyes of the Government both here and at home, to the t·eal wants and feelings of the community, he thought that the Council would be a great gainer by . the division. Again, they would be in a. better position, as o.t present they had too many questioD.!:I brought before them by the Govemment, and the constant interruption oc,casioned by the receipt of Governor's messages. He would call the attention of the House to another Yiew of this question, and .considel' the CoUncil, in. the performance of the -highest and inost im­portant duties, as the great inquest of th.e nation. .Suppose any instance-- of corruption should happen to occm· on.the part of officials, and in this colony such offence.s hud· been numcl'ous enough-in a House like the present the sense. of clhgrace was too s~ong- to in~~ce the· Government to _take it. up. :The offi.ctal members would hold together, and it :would be difficult to obtain that unbiassed expression of sentiment which· a house coin posed entirely :of representatives Would u~hesitating(y give. Agttin, the Government might choose .to conceal or protect nny dclinquincy of this nuture, for they .must recollect that the spirit of. the. constitution did not lead them to put trust in GoYernments, but to watch ·:them narrOwly. 'l'h-ey might send an offender home, or perhaps .vote a board .of enquiry, ·on which the house of.. representatives might pnss a vote of want of confidence. The functions of the representatives -were not: merely legislative, they were also accusative and querUlous. 'l'he Council ·must be continuallY. watchful to protect th~ pUblic interests, Again, one of thc.most important duties .of' the Council was to pass the esti.ril.atcs, but-he woulcllikc to know in what p:u't of the common law they found any power giVen ton non-elected member of any British.legislo.ture-to vote· u.way the public money. 'l'his wns the rightexclwiively claimecl by the representatives of the 'lleople, a· right which had been cnrefullygumded as sacred and inviolable, and which had been the soltrce of' all the powe1· and prosperity of. the British em­pire since the first revolution. It was this cOnttol of the jlursc strings which was the very foundation of English freedom. Let them take away their voice,· let them take riwny the power to 'muke laws, let them c~ercise their veto ag they would, still so long as_ this.control wns left to them thev would retain the very soul and esSence of iheir power .. ·He did not wish to cast any blame on this Government o:r any other, but they ~hould rcmembeL· what was once snid to them by the lute honorable and lenrnedmemberfor Durhum," 1' the present gover• nor is never abused, the past ones are never praised." The Government ·might choose to .suminon the Council at the most· inconvenient time, whenicp'i'csCnta.tivc -members were en­gaged with their affairs 1.1p the country .. The nominees, on the contrary, living, as he believed they dicl, altoghcrinSydney-orits close vicinity-; could be brought together, and then the power of_ the Government would completely ,weigh_P,owri the·pop.ll~ru:.;eleme.nt. 9~ .. t\le House. Over an cl ovct again hnd'thcy in this way been. placed. at the mercy of the Government-he did not mean to say thut the Government had taken advantage of. it....:.., they had acted wis8ly in tiot doing so, as doubtless thcreprc.scntaLiveS might have .made reprisalS, but if the Council. was to ·ll;avc no check over a system like t~~' tht!y hacl 1btlt a mockery_ of a..Government3 ·He ther·crore-Jthouglit · thnt that. s•lbs'&antia.l element of power, the.power-evcn (hough the­schedules and the territorial revenUe were not given up,' wOuld be gained by mnki11g the Council excluslvely a. House uf representatiVes, even. although th~ir apin·opriation should be submitted to the revision of another .House­he .. thought,- too, that it -was not imp-ossible but, tha.t a good eff~ct would arise fi'Oiri the revision of the legislation of the lt!_Sser House by the upper; , tluit -part. of th:c functions of thS House, the exercise Of which, in his opinion, J_id the Hoti.se·lea:st credit-were itS legislative functions-he could notloolc baekOI} the'l.egis­lutive career of that House withanysnti~faction, The enactmcnts they had made, the -~n.ws they I, ad passed, were certuin!y riot of that 'perfect character of which· they hnd any reason to be proud.·. They could not say- thatgoarllaws hf!,d. been pMsed, wheu he remembered that.at its first_ session an ex post facto Bill hud been Pro­posed to· the Roli.se· to cancel existin[ O.ri'ange­meuts.,...when he remembered the ·.I.Sill \vhich' proposed to. inflate by n paper ctp:rericy raiSed on the credit of the govemment;_ the' currency nt present. in existence-when he remenibered a :Uill to lo-\vct' the rate of interest,-hc ·could not but feel thUt these measures were stich 'aS: the CoUncil might lJc ashamed of, But· their very constitution involved this; The• only matters on which the'y were well -competent to .l~g_blnte. were. withdrawn from them,· ·such· P.S

the land que!'ltion, the administration of justice, and the district councils .. , '!'he reports and re­solutions of the House on'these.and-_ other sub­jects, would be found far more to redound to the honour of ~he -firSt Council thnn any of its enac·t-· mcnts.:The governmentbroughtmany·measm:es down to the -House, but the government was not infallible; and he· had known nOt less: thu.n ~en .a.menclments'to be niad8' in· one:clause in a night. .Nor W,ilS thit1 to be.wondcred- at •. It was impossiblo:'for _any honomble. member, .witho.ut the· maturest consideration,_ . tO ·have the whole Bill in his mind; u.nd-see how .ihany other alterations. any single- one may 1·endcr necessary. He therefOre thought thnt this re­vision by_another house would·alsOwork.good. He did not see nny force in the objection, that they had not the materiul for another House. It was true, they could not have a house of Duke_s an'd' l\-Llrquisses, like the House of Lords. Nor did he think, let it be compoSed pf whom it would, · th<it it would cominand much t•cspect; 'hut there were plenty of inen fitted for it, : There was Mr, Eenjamin Bones, only n soap-boiler a few years ago, .but _now, lord and maste1· over the .destinies of the gre&t pastoral colony of New South 'Vales .. If·such a house did support the lower house,· by so doing they wuuld hash up· their . decisions with great strength; if not, the -opi­nions of . , such a house would. not cnrry much weight.; not half so much as· that of the . representatives of-: the people. He. could not sec. whilst they had: the material.'.for n lower: house tlmt they .were at nll_deficient in _this .fOr an upper._ It wns very tme thllt, .not. like the English Govetnment, they were subject to great fluctuutions of pro­perty here.; but .he.clid.not sec why they might !lot ,ll.Ei well .have.an.hJs.ol'tent nominee in the upper hou .. se, as an insolvent nominee in .

• the lower, Therefore, he thought that the consti.

1

hie cordial and sincere thank~, for the man. ner ples, tf? put th9se measures in operation, and did occur. in all p9puln.r n~r;embli13s, tution of the present Council tended to stifle: ; in: which, 'in- accordance with the·wishes and 'woulcl be ,gone- from them ftH' ever. The Co~ (Ironical cheers.) Gentlemen· might: cheer, the expression of public opinion, that·· it representations Of those moat"nearly'interC;:;"ted, lOnia.l Secretary qtioted the three· branches of but it was the cfl'ect of such collisionS· that was created confusion,.that it served to break down . hc:}ul.d.-taken ·the question ·of se!p!uation into·· the.Governmtmt o.t home, a~ the precedent for'· wholesome rnther th'an ·the collisions·them­a.U land-marks t'lnd -pTinciples by which the his· ·consideration. :But whilst fully a1iVe to 'this part of the proposecl ·change,. but tlw ma~ ··se1ves. The 'e1oquent ·sp_E.ieCh· · ofj -the-·honor­pdpular element ·of the British constitution the good· intentions···of hiS ·Lordship, he' did. jorityof one in the -Hous_e of Commons at P.ble and 'learned member for ·Auckland· l1ad Was dtstingui.slwd, .!1-nd feeling:. this cOnvicti?n, · thb_lk that.- th~: pri?ciple, ·tho. re~· :Jll~ciplc, -home could prevent· any minister· hold- fnilcid to cOnvince him:'of _the wisdon-l·of erect­thut.th~y had notlung to fear,· but everythmg whtch seemed to lum· to be mvolved- :m the ing office ·a day ' longer.· N.Or .could' ing·n. second -house. =The· lendi}ig-obji:ction to to hope, from the erection of t\Vo houses "in the measure was·· ari erroneous one'!' ·lmid One in: there be any similarity in the . con·~ ·hir;• argument W<!S, :tl~ut "heL <;~grc;cd in 'the as­place of one, he hud felt it necessary to· State whiC~l hiS ·Lordship tp.ust be mistuken in his stitution of the Legislative Council of ·rlomi~ ·immption thn~ the- ·power of the people- was.to·­his · reasons on this point at some -length; inform!i.tion as to. the. oircumstance~-of tlic.c_o- riees ·propose:d to be erected ·here, ·and that of -·b~ given up· to _the· CoUncil·. This; ~lC·t.ook it, and J1e. hl)ped that none would, out· of any -louy. > '·'I'he principle·.which seem~d=-to'11im to t)te House of Lords. ·1Iere .the nominee would was·· never·' cotitempllitcd b'y · his.- -hohorable · spirit of.: fancied courtesy to the honomblc ·be thc·fourido.tiotl of this meaSure wus the" prin-. hold- his seat at the -pleusure·of the Crown..:- fri.e~d the Colonial Secretru.·y. · Anothei· ·'i:Jbjea •. _ ti.~d -learned mover, fail. to act· upon ciple·.of<ufliversal sufi'l·nge. -Now, he.-contended,· there· no_t ·only wo..s: th~ peer :a· legis1Rfor for ·tion was, _:tlHlt the·1 nomiri(3es··. pf- the·· Qtown ·h_is own· hone.st c~nviction. The subject was -tha.t 1 tli~ colony was .not in a. pos.itioni-where : life',. but h~' and hi~ .posterity·. ·held· it in· would be: 1 elected. "for_ life,· .s·o · that• instead of of too grcut importance to be complimented · univci-aitl Su:ffri'fge ought to·be intr_odil.ced, . In -vi;tue of· a ]lrescriptive right, ·of: which· it wti.S giving additional' power to the people;· it Would away ,to_ any member. Wit)l.r&gal'd to the~ th(!· ·peculiar·. circumstrmces of:; the: .eo~.· not in the power of any. one to deprive· ,him. ·be to· tuke po,~ct· from· them._ -.~he 'honofable qucstton .. of.local government, he should be lony, . the state of. · -educntion1 •. tind: :the· A:nd ye_t; in nendy.all·mttttci-1;-in which ·a col· nnd -learned· member said,- "that the bo.lmlcc of glad.if those who. were fu.vo~rable to it. would · alrn:ost: -insUperable- .iliffi!:4ulty. o(.·· prOyiding li~ion· luls urisen between the .Lol'ds· and Com- 'the tluee br:tilches of the ·Go-..·C:ininent ·atTlOm'e define· to :what extent they went, and .on' what_ an)'. ,-s~stem of edl.!,cation which ... cO:ulcl : be iii~ns, the_ repres~ntatives of the people· have was not ls:ept up ."!lndel' th~ ·preSent .'-s)~ateini; te~msthey wcre·prepured to receive· it. .For 'fully. imd effectually beneficial,_ wqrc considera- pre.vailedi and steps ·have been· taken to compel "bUt ile·mustrcmernbertho.ttllis constitution was.· his,pnrt.he :was prepare[ to· give municipal. tions::which we~e.convincing t() him: thut _the· ·thC-Hou,se of Peers .into acquiescence. This the first ·infuSion_ of· the· p_Oplilnr 'eic~elil in_t~ gover!lmcnts...,...under. a very different. constitu- colony· '\vaS -unfitted •for univerSal, :suffi·nge_:. -was the ca.'>e with thG Reform Bill, the Catha- thG~Governm~nt of the colony. ··with' re~pect tiontto that given·to the beautiful city of Syd- even ·could :such· .. a· _p~inciplc Qe· curiied into 1ic)~.elief Bill, with the Repeal· of the Qom "to ~his .. subject,. the· -coJoriy was in a ·-so~t of

. ney,.involving, ns it did,· D.ll thut· wa11 objeici-. .nctuo.l-pmctice in.· the colony, On.this,p,idin ·Laws:_ in· fact; he' believed· thht ulmost- any· t~·anSition s.tage.- : 'l'he-·honornble :ui.1a lCRrned ·tionab1e·. and nothing deSil'[l.blc-tO 'Sydhcy, point, therefore, ns.-~o . the constitution of thC. ~&asilre_-W}liCh WIIS suppQrted.by a. majority Q( _inernber argued that th'e·pcOpl6 hud )10t:p'ower :Mell;wurne, Ptltrumntta, Maitland, · ~athurst, Co\incils·;··he was· ·ut iSsue with- ·his lordship, . que: hundred .in the House ··of Conlmons··was- enough, but still he a~voeated.a s'eCoRd:hOusl?, and.Goulburn, and to no 'other place ... Nq~, ~ut.he quite. agq:ed with. that -pOl'tio'n,of .his s\''<\llo~Ved· by:the· Hour;e·. of Lords.·-. '(Q],t.em·s whichwouldseivcas.dkindofbrenkwitertOward · the Colonial Secreto.t·y had saiU, thu.t the pro-. deapatch· which: stated thnt .the:establislnnent and laug/1_ter.) 'He must say, that- he was not oft' the resistance of the go'vernment-'.aguiils-t the

-'POsed District. Councils were looked ·upon as . of municipal' bodies, for the locuLgo.vei·nment disposed to find fault lvitli thei.r present consti~ people's claims,_· 'With regard to thC· gCheral . taxing-machines. He took ft thllt nU Go:vern~ · oft:tle·vaHq:us districts of the colofi·y, ~vould be ,tution., ·lie conSirlcl'ecl that the Council had question, its merits had"l..'ecll So freely. diSC1f8Sed ~ments, whethe1·. municipal or legislath·e, hn-· inost "adV:irit'ngeous and bi:nefi.eill;l.·: !Without worked well; considerin'g'the difficulties with out of doors that he did not feel itneces~ar}r ]?li.ed. tuxation : that Government·: was eyo~e ~e~:mt·e of this sort was put into opera- '\~hich ~t had h~d to ci:m~end;. 'l'~·U:e it wa.s, the to gci into it. ne tho'U~ht the JUerisUre '"[Is bud -indeed a· meuns to the gr~at i!:nd·to be obtain~d: tion, witho)J.t .. the cstablishmen~~ 1of DJstnct .· Q-.pvernment m1ght hMe had too much·· powct .j.n priliciple·~ an(l -thut:1t :w_us._ worse beca\\Se it -tux:u~ion. In these dt~}'staX.ution s"eGnied to __ qouncils fol,' p_urely, l_ocal. pui'pos'es, ~lathing~ ~~thnt,collisiOl~S. between the <?ouncil and the_- came befori' them -'iri. "the __ deluSiVe_ garb: of a be the sole end ,of Government; and (hut, _.Go-, c_ould .ever be .effi.cLe~tly done ~o ·)teep -1 the· Gqvernment, -m1ght ·have tal~en; plu.c.c.;,_, but meaSu,r~ of'llopllidr c.o~cession. . . . . v_ernmeJ::!.t wa:s best which \raised the·- .largest _means of,truffic_nnd commun~cation throughout these had ·ansen from the liri.e10f policy .a(loptcd Mr.· ~LAND '111-oved Jt;L_ tldjol.Ji.nmimt, '-\-Vhich amount:_ that it waS a· miserable sort of g:O· the. _colony. open--:-witho-cit "the;: ron~s and by the late Government. :With the- pi"esent ws.s·cli.rried~ · ".. ·.. . ' " vemment thut did :not take much monpy .bridges Of.lhc c,olon)' w. ere .kept-in.a. ~pn~sn..ble Govei-nr;nent the Council had-had·no-·collision: ·, ·' · · ·· ·' .. , · fr ·th · N · " · d · - l'h_e.Council: adJ-OUtnetl nt e1.'ght o'.clOc:l<·, t .. 'ill ... · om em under 1ts rule. ow, sta.te,-tltc·lJest inter,ests of the colony must be -tae.·. WlSI3 an conciliuting policy, it hdd therefqre·, when thCy· spoke of local completely. sacrificed.· The. produce· Of ;the adopted· enabled it to work harmoniously with 1 =h_e~fo~l_lo_,_vin~g~d_:•Y~·-· -"~·'-'"--' "--·----

.. government, they meant local · tuxution, .'colony niust :be left to rot.in utt.er usele.ssness , the Council; nnd he- believed ohly in: o1ic vote for if they were. only boards,'_to ·recommend it on: the_spot.·whe1·c _it was "grown. !J.'o effect (Mr. Scote-s salary) since the ,commencem.cnt ·would increase the very evil. of which the the!le necessary objec~s,. Local Municipal Go- of- the' present Government bud ·its mei:nb~rs in 1 ·Colonial Secretary complained--that o~ .. o:ver- yerunien(::>.vaS .require_rl_:_the ·ceJltril.LGpvkrn-' thatCouncilbcenlcftinnminority. Althoughu~ whelming .the gov!=rnment with applications for ment of -~he colony could not .a~tend. to experiment in· -legislation, thell: present eons~i· expenditure in e;tchrdistrict. ·nut ·what would ev:ery :part -.C?f tl~is ~xt_endcd. colony: nt· tution had w01·ked remarkably wen,· nnd he this power of local -taxation. umount·: to .here? once .. -'~'hey coul_d. not see ev~fy~vlwrc_ ,.;.-hilt !herefore diifcte~ from the· la'st-speakcr i'n wish­Suppose the inhabitants of Patrick'a Plains· to WitS .. , requ~r9d ,. to be. done, .and: find. out· mg for -the .erectiOn of an ui>per house.. He be incorpb1;ated at Patrick's Pluins, .nnd they th!'!_cheape~:~t. anq._, most effectua1. wuy _to :dO it, differed ·als:o with·-him in the· opinion that· the

; put _up a toll-gate there and ohurgc a. .toli, they as locul bodies could.· lie did not meun:to: Sn.y·· ·materials-for such a ·housG exh>ted here at pre~ w.:ould by that means make every squatter that :that the 1~)10ie .funds for _such ;improvem"e"nts sent .. It ,vas u·ue tlmt the members '\rho· comJ· came down the rond .from Liverpool Plains or should .be r~sed.from tl~e districtS where th~y posedthehouseohepre~enta~ivesmightbefitt'ed New England, pay for .t1tcir local purposes, and were .mude. · .. They should contribute, by a equally for the duties of the-nominee council ; this was what wa!l·.meant ·by. locnl t;txation. modcrnt"c nssess.ment.·to ."a· cCrtnin ext-ent, !but but there-was this· difference between the two _They_would live off their tolls just as they did they. shou_l4 be a~siste4 by. a ..liberal disn·ib'u~ positiOns to b'e _l'emembcrCd :· If a 1:epresent!).· m. the· mlntoi1s of Switzerland, where each tried tiof!-·of ~he l~9al.~·~venu,e, Already._tlHnlm~unt_ ,.tive of the peopl; betrayed hi_s tru~t in·nny ,wo.y' to _exact thG largest .revenue from. the· tolls ·in denved_from pubhcuns nnd other hcenscs, nnd' .whatevel', he ffilght be got nd ot at a gener51: the : pnsscs through· the Country. ·.That,. he ~ther su.bjects_ o( · pm·_cly locuh taxation, ex- election, but the appointment of the nominee 9f contend_ed, was not (\"System fit for· ari·:Engli!'lh ceeded £80,000 per annum·; nnd·_ if- .this:waS the :Crown could not-'be set aside. _No ."doubt community. But· ·what Would this locu1 fairly distribUted, he did. think ~h,ese-16cal mu- the:legi~lation of that House had us :yet been-; taxation be -what . must it. ii1cvitably . nicip(\lities r.night l,lc made to .:work most •. ad- but YCl'y•impcrfcct,, but this· was a matter. of_ '

.. be bUt· a tax on · · petsorial labour :v3ntageously, Let. them. _only l9ok. arOi.md detail, \vhich:time · and: cxperi!?nce: might do 1

-of every description? It : must·, 1 be them,-a11d sea l~o_w very n1uch .of. benefit :ltdd much to remedy .. -Unttl th"cy adopted. aorhe l'nised· -on the· articles- of COI)SUtllption, . so resulted .froni municijml' government ·ill: the plan !of· having t~eh· measures submitted. 'to so that·every di.E!trict would .have to--lmve its ·Cities-of Sydncy.and M:clboume,_· nnd _the tg~vn competent legal· revision after having pass"ed -own ·.custom-house ; or perlmps a'· sy1:1tem· of ·_of"Par~~matt.a. · '~mprb:vem_erits _ten9,ing .tQ the through committee, he did think they wonld .excise licenses migl1t be. es'tublislled;·for;with¥ safety, convenience, un~l.health'.of, the iuhabi- cOntinue to bgislate very defectively.· ·B~th€: QUt.some such aystetn ·.it .,Vould be utterly im-, tnnts 'had been sprcnding".in .. all ··directions; ; ·wo~det·cd that . the honm;able O:nd learned

, possible to collect- taxation· from the. 'wages·of which ·wbuld nevar_ ho.:ve .tnken·Phico ·jmd these member fDr- Aucltl:l.ltd shoUld be n. ·great· ex~ labour:. Anothel' objectiori. to this·system .was, locD.litie"s"reiD.ained rinincm;porated •.. Thq p~·in.. hibitor 'Of these defects-when ·he. beli~ve"d

. that· it. wa!il a federal system-'-a.systcm·which .cipaLof. municipal governments, of giving_- to· that: ·the -Coal Bill; which 'had_ · been he would fearlessly venture to assert "vas, next each district- the mrinngement .of its: local prepared and ·brought 'in by· him; hdd to~nwubsentce Government, the·worstgoverri.· affairs, was , undoubtedly -a 'sound· been twice- bef.ore the ·House for ment of· any; nnd theSe two system,s· of go.:. and · ;n. wise '• one, 'and·=·· bY: ·affor'dj:iJ.ir amendmetlt to.nllow it to be brought into op·e­~ermnent conjoined·(as .in their- case) w·ould them ussisto.ncc -from the. ·.fltbd~ mtion: --Indeedhe folllld'it-tll"ulethatllills iti.­form about us wretched a :scheme as it would that .. ~- Were' .. now·. · ·· cnn:icd 'to : the !ro~uced py-1u~vyers, or in which the7 acti~·~ly' be poSsible" .for the enemy of lllan to. d8vise. "g"ei1erul revenue, he wus sure· that.o-it niight mterfered, ulwnys turned. out the moSt dCfec­They would have ull the evils that had gl'Dwn _ with·grelllpracticnl benefit-be. intl·oduced 'into tive. ·when they. cnnie to b_e put in force. up i.n Switzerland, whe-re, froin constant! jea- the' colony/ .But as for the other purt of the ' (Cheers :and- gi:eat laughter.)'· 'And· ilow he loUsies and rivalries_ ·of the .petty cantons, all scheme:-p_~ nlluded to that proVi~ing a SyStem would make· some remarks on a subject:_iiL Can· power in the central Government was-virtually of do:Uble elec.tion, arising_ out of the: Establish- nexion with thi~ subject·. It had been-said hy lost .. Some. of the cantons wished to expet the nu>ilt· of these -District Councils-he ;was some in the :dismi,ssions 'oh this despatch thnt :Jesuitn, others did not; and amid the .disputes ent_irely oppose4 to .it. ·lie believed tbat·with the present· form of· the constitution- ot' the a·la.w-fbr their expulsion·.could .not be put' in the ·f:iingle ·exception o.f the electio~1 ·of- th~ Council wns not popular _ut _Port Phillip. force. That would be the case here. ';rhey Aniel'ican Senntc,there wns no instapce! to be He· entirely denied this. Among his own: l-e­would have. these .small governments, these· foun_d ·of th13' existence -of. this .prillcipl~ 'of prese~tntivcs, u.nd th13 grent number of- intem~· petty municipnliti'es, hating Cti.ch·other with an double election. Bu~ he would like to ha:ve : g~nt at~d .~xpedenccd 15entlemeti he"wO:s con­ani.mosif ·"equalled only by the· combined put it to Lorcl John.-Russ.ell himSelf,··· whether,· ·stantly in ·-the ·habit of sceing:i -he---had ·uever' 'Spirit o nven:ion·. with· which: theY _,Vould· when in 1841 he enst himself upon thC electors heard un objecti911 mged. ngai1_1st the form. Of regard that Council. What hud they dope of the City of London, to test the-queStiOn of· the'·constitution ofthis colony,- Bllt'·he-had to have tills curse inflicted upon th&m? There free trade, he wou1d huvq been content tO llUve heard ·it highly-approved by ·men Wl)-OSejudg­,;,.ns nothing of ull this in-the constitution o£ helm elected on.the same· principle as that Oil mcnt·he ldghly ·respected·, and who· concuried

.:England., · They . ·never heurd· of a- district which-it was intended to elect :inembers of this with· him that the mb:ed cons'titUtiori,. the' Couricil of Devonshit•e or of Yorkshire1 or un Council,·· ''Vhether it" wns not a fnct that) bringing the' offici_al orga.us of the Government nUiallce defensive or offensive. in mu,licipul .pE?rhilp~J' witb: the.cxception of 1t:fr.-Alderma.n into-ju~tu--pi:isition ·with the 'rej>resentntives~of matters enterEd into between. Cambridgeshire ·-wood,-any one of the meni.bers Of: the city ·of the people; must tend to fuc.ilitate the! l:}usiness and, Huntingdonshire.· 'l'he whole coq.ntry ;London for yeurs buck wotlld ever·haVe"efltercd bqth~·Of the House und the Go\·erili-ncllt. _.Even' :would be split·.into u :'1\-·orse· thau:heptnrehy. the·Housc·~f Conlmons as the representative from ·gentlemeu··from New Zenlnrid 'he hnd Why should such divisions be established? Of-the .city, ·had the election-been 'mri.do ·by the· hi:Ard the same·opinion, ,nnd_ a most intl!lligcin,t Why shoulcl they thur; strive to establish the City· C01·por~tion· ins~eud- of-_ the body -of.' and "influentinl '·fi:iend of 'llis, bcloflging majority ov~r ·the minority? · .The .. ·constunt · eleCtors ,at large. (E;cur,, heitr.-)-: And if'tlli.s tQ ,.- . that . colouy, ho.U. · 'ex.pt·essed . his tendency ·of·· this sub-division :would· be to would have been the c:ase· nt home,_- Ussuredly decided opinion tlint cyen ·in . New· become n1ore minute,- till everyman nndfamil,i the- sume result· )Vould ·take ·,-_pi nee ·'here. Zealn'nd some Such system ·must l;le devised, ns would have" himself, nnd himself only,:to legis-· ·rersons · . ''(ould_ be· ·.z:etUrncd··. ~or . · locul; he could nut see how' it wns ·possible. f'Ol: the lute for. . Not content with quarrelling among ·-bodies, tind:very pt·ope-riY:returnecl,·-\..-h>:Fwould bu~ines~ of the House tCl go oiL Unless the themselves, they·-would mortally' ·hate .and hO\ve-vcrbeutterly _Unfit to til.ke'tlieiiS.euts ill· officers of the GoVernment had·seuts· in tlic

• envy this Qouilcil,. 7\-Voulq it n(lt:be a feeble that House .. Thc·qunlifi.cutiom for mere.local· :Hous-e. (.J:Ienr1 hear.)_ Jie _·did·thirik, thcrc'­ex.cuse -to Sl~y·because a person: had a ·mortifi.- gov~rnmeut; and· thoSe- ·requisite-- for· gen~rnl· frlre, thn.t they might get on v_cry ·:well as they' cation in one hand that his _whole· body should legislature, ·were esseritii:Llly diffcreilt_.- ~They · wei:c.· 'J.'hut·the pre-~ent CoUncil might work be'ripoed to· pieces -to· restore him· to ·heulth ? required altogether a· different ~ducatiOI~-n -.wel1• • • • •

. Such. 'vus the ·scheme, ·which must have been· diftl:!tent'eXperience: _· Arid it would,: perlHiijS, ' }ill:. 'LO,VE: 'What ! the weathercock aS­devised for the· purpose: Of corruption,-- :TheY in most cases, be ri v·~ry difficult mUti:er· to find sembly ! (Luughtei').. ·would remember that · this ·-system, -of. 'theSC·two -d.Cscrir)tioils Of ·quri.lifico.tions uaitCd · _ Mr>llOBINBON: YeS .. No form· of con-.

·double.: election involved one : thirtg-' in:the same 'pers~lll._ On this -grOund; -therC-· stifution wmild' prevent sa.me membei'rs froin' that·.-tbe members. of- these· District Councils forE',. he was: .opposed td ~he lrieasurC 'propqsed- l-'lltting ; this conduc.t of individual' members :would be chosen for one thing and elected for "by EaH Grey, us·he;was_ sum. that here; of. nll did:not·nt··nll interfere with his Opinion.as to another •. -They 1voulcl be chosen .. for their':fit- pln_ces,-thc intl;Oduction·of nny such system of the_beneficial nuture of the· constitutiori of the ness: ·to deul:·with "locul-. -matters, ·but when double· election as . that· s·uggcstecl in the de~~- Council.· Let that Constitution have fnh· .. 'play, .eleCted they-would-have· t9 elect the LegL~lu- patch,- must be fraught 'with c"il,· HC· now be fairly worlred, it would" be found to nnswcr ,_ture of-- thG· country---;-n .task fat· which they __arri:vcd.at a third propOsition of th~ desp'dtch.....,.. the \\'nnts-of the;_country; butJ19 wo'ridcred'in-_· might;, and .pi-obubly· would be tot:llly-unfi.t, -naiitely, the '.crc'ction-of nu upper· house to:-bC · · de'cd when he saw. hOnoril.ble members 'of suCh The people may Clect a very pr~per man tci co'rilpoaed entire.l~· of nominces·o_t' tllc CrmVn; ·'uhstu.ble opinioolS-ratting tQ~daj _on_ the ·la\i.d ..

, ~reqt a t.umpike or repair a rand•; hut the last and·on this part of the -subject-he e;ntiicly dis- question,· and mtting by· wh:oles_ale. to-morrow· :thing they will think· ·of will be that to hini. 'agreed with the·honoruble and lelirned member . on the· hlbour -qu~stton. He re-pented :__:_he is to.-. be- entrusted the exclusive· right· of for Auckland. Ir, indeed; the·_ Civil list were wondet·ed indeed that gt.;eatel' evils· than any -the fro.nchise. Though. there inight be· men to be given .Over· to the ·house of usscmbly, to that had been t>Ointed out_ by' the hoUOrnble· :mean nnd ·wicked enough to nccept·the~e the representatives of the pe_oi>le--:if theeon- member:for Aucklahd, ·as· .. luiving ·uriSim, 6r offices.; but if they should, they·would be trol of the public--pur::C wus exclusively vested were likely to arise Out of their Present cousti~ rlespisecl und e:x:eerntcd. Whateve;- -the cle~ in·· the repre_sE:ntatives-thcn intle~{l .he· · tntii:m,--hri.v~ nnt be~n mnde nppn:rent, n.ndt\tt're­fects_ of this Council might bc-,vhatever should _raise' no. obje'ction_ tO' ~hc""cStab-_ fore, he Should·.-'W-ish: thtit. _conStitution to re~ their iriefficiencii?s and neglect might l1ave Hsliment of a seParate house·of nssembly main una.ltere(l, · . ' been..:..,-although- in the !!lcience of ·legislation and ·Legislative Co\tnciL· ·But'· without· thiS ·_Mr." DONAJ.~DSON shotihl c:ii!rtailily hri.v.e ihe;y:-.. D:l.i"ghtL as·. -yet· be . considered· us· •mere lie· _could see: nothing but eyil· that could· ·Su'j_)por:tc(l ,the _o'i·igiilal 'lll6tion of the hon'or-_

; .pigmies-yet; us ,computed·' with' their.· sue-'. aTise·trom the ereCJion·of·'unother'hOusc i'if th"e:· .ll~le t,nld lc:aruc.d·mc'mber·-for'. SYdney, even: if_ cessors, if this scheme were put· -in ·-foree,:he · salu:ries of all the officials 1Ye1·e s:ecured:to .thc'Ih· hc"·hild nqt_ felt hdditiori.<il reasons fOr S().· doing ventured to say. -thuv- they ·woUld be ·looked if thC GOvern.mcnt· ·in. fuct,· ·_-_w~re· to' be· _inde-. :m.·the:: present debate. ::··.··R~ was of :opiTiion, upon as gi~nts. • pen4ent of·the . .l'epresent:;ttivcs·for·tllc,riieails to ·with tlu! Coloriia~ SCcrCtnr'y, thnt it waS bct:te'r

Mr. -RODINSON, hi 'rising· to -make a few ·cUrrY oiL·the · GoVe~n~neTitf with il. ·_Lep;islntive . _t6 Presc:rvc a' tOne of gOo·(l feeling· in their 1·e:~. remtirks, on the resolution~ before· the-House;; 'Couneil of titS. 0\Vri'· Iioljlllle,es. _liridi offi.Ciiil(to_- !rJwnStrance with- He'r Maje!'lty's Go,·crnment,

·, would; in the £rst place, state his en~ire beijef · Ci:mriterac_t~tlu~ vOte~ q~'th'nt hoUse _; h~mustsoy, ~.1~fl th~ught'·. the, resolt~ti?ns-- Jtnd been al~eied thut.:w:hatc,·cr the merits of the propo·scd m~n~ that· the· representative ass,embly ._·m!JSt ·. de:- tor -~he- better, nnd. that lJerhups eyen now·, sure might-be, that neither 'Lord Gre'y-or· 1'\{r. gene·rate into ·1l mere _debatll1g-elubo (Ch~err.) . :lh~re ·were some_ <.>x:cresccnces that mig~1t.be

. lluwes b_ad. 'any other. object in proposin·g :itt It" would eense to'-. cGhlhlll.\1-~ .. ~ny ·· r~sp,ec~, 1 ~t_ ,lopped Q~: · .li~·~erta\nly wns-opposcd -in c;cry thun thnt of the· ·advancement ··o.nd improVe- would- cease_ to _have·· nny_ ·mfluence,. for, 1t way ·_to tlhs proposal of·Lord Grey. It seemed, ment of: the colony. ''He felt-that this Could.' be. w·ould cease· to. \Vicld· ony· power:_. It might to,ciorisist of civerY .thin~· thnt. ,,·aS Slavish: nD.d: the.only object Of those ·gentlemen; and for be n,tude ··t1u:! · m·en·~ 'for- oratoriqal · diSplay·r, :O,'ad_; imd 1() neglect e~;cry thing· that~ ,yas_ con~·

.. himselfnnc;l thOse whom he hnd:the-honouito honorable memb.er·s:· :might .~iseuss pthiciples __ stitutional and good:: He ilgreed tllat a scheme represCnUn that HouFe, he begged to -tender , of' policy nnd m_Cas:ures of economy _Wi~hiil its like this :would pi·B_Ver;tt: those ,VholeSome ah<l

· the Right Hon. ilnd Noble Secretary of Stg,te ~tillS,· ~ut the poWet:·to enfo'rcc. thuse prin~i· -. cam;titutiono.l collliiomi 'Yhich ha'd occur!Cc_l: