Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 6 JULY 1922

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

[D ,J n. Y. i

THURSDAY, 6 JULY, Hl2!!.

The SPEAKEH (Hon. \V. Bertrum. JlaJ"' ·) look the chair ut 3.30 p.m.

QUESTIONS. 0WE:-i CREEK RAILWAY.

:\Ir. SW A YNE (JI im.ni) asked the Secre­tary for Railways-

" When is it intended to complete the Owen Creek Railway?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILYL\YS (Hon. J. Larcombe, 11cppd) replied~--

" The line \Yas o)Wllf'd to 5 miles ~C' chains for traffic on 22nd F<•bruarv b.­The vvork of constructing tho Llridg~e ov~.:•;_· ();qm Creek and to th0 h•rrninus or 6 lnilcs 18 chaill<;. is l\0\V in IH'Ogl'CSR . .

SOLDIER SETTLER:; li\' UHOUP SETTLE~IENTS

lVIr. KING (Logan) asked the Socrctu,t·Y fo1· Public Lands-

" 1. How many coldier st'ttle" wc:·e placed on blocks in group sr•ttlcme,•t>< during each of the financia.i ~ear~ 19L-1918, 1919-1920, 1921-1922?

"2. IIow 1nanv of these ~ct~lt·r<s \VOI'O

o.n the blocks c~nccrncd ou 30th June. 1922?

.. 3. llow many blocks-being repm·­chasod iands and being once occupied by soldil'r settlers~arl' llO\V vacant?

"4. How many vacant blocks on ropu-:­ehascd soldier scttlcnwnts arc unoccu­pied?

" 5. How many blocks are occupied on soldier settlements other than by soldi'ers ?"

The SECRETARY FOH l'CBLIC LANDS (Hon. J. H. Coyne, ll'arrego) replied-

" l. The total number of blocks alloEed to soldier settlers in group settlements dnring the financial years 1917-1918, 1919-1920, 1921-1922 is 1991.

" 2. The total number of such allot­ments in force at 30th June, 1922, "'" 1758. .

·' 3. 133. "4. 299. "5. 10."

BowE" CoALFIELD RAILWAY.

:\Ir. ELl'HINSTONE ( Oxl1 y) a,kcd .'he Secretary for Railways-

" 1. \Vhen does he anticipate that dH• Bowcn Coalfield Hailwav will br: com-pleted? ·

"2. \Vhat is thn cost to date·~

"3. \Vhat. is the c.-timatcd cost wbC'll comlJlctcd ?"

The SECRETARY FOR l:L\ILWAYS (Hon. ,J. Larcombe, E CZJZJ' ') replied-

" l. The line will be open for traflic not later than September next.

" 2. £539,882 to 30th J uno, 1922. " 3. £604,000. The original estimate

prepared in 1915 prm-idccl for 44 miles 50 cltain:-- of ]ino onl:.r. rrho prCS£~nt p;::tintn ted co;,t to ~ou1plrte is for 48 n1il0~ 10 ::·!wins."

56 Question~. [ASSE:\IBL Y.l Questions.

2\Ir:-<ISTERIAL TnAVELLIXG ExPEXSEs. lVIr. MORGAX (Jiuri//u) asked the Pre­

mier-" In view of tho fact that tho following

motion waF. unanimously carried by nlem­b( rs of the LegislatiYe Assembl "'- on 1st Sep.tombcr, 1921:- "

' That there be laid upon the- table of the House a return showing thB amount paid· or iEcurred by the State in rupect of the travelling expenses of each individual mem­ber oi thP Ministry durinv the years ending 30th J uno, 1910, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1919, 1920, 1921 '-

does he intend supplyin" the informa­tion; and, if so, 'vhcn '?''

The PREl\liER (Hon. E. G. Theodore, ('hilluoor·.l replied-

" The information will be supplied as early as possible."

RAIL\YAY E:vrPLOYF.ES, REVENur. A::-<D TRAIN MILEAGE.

Mr. MORGAN (Murilla) asked the Secre­tary for Railways-

" 1. How many (a) permanent, (b) tem­porary employees were crnployed in the State Railway DPpartmcnt on 3Cth June, 1922:

" 2. \Vhat was the nci employee in the Railway during the year 1921-22?

rovcnuc per Department

" 3. How manv train miles ·were run during the year ·1921-22 ?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS replied-

" 1, 2, and 3. The figures are not yet prepared."

PENALTY ON OVERDUE CROWN RENTS. Mr. 2\IORGAN asked tho Secretary for

Public Lands-" Will he bring in an amending Bill so

that the Secretary for Public Lands may po··se's the power of abolishing the 10 per cPnt. penalty on OYerdue rents during perio·cls of depression and drought? "

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS replied-

" This question is receiving the close attention of myself and the Cabinet at the present time."

A>!OUNT RErEIVED FOR RETROSPECTIVE PASTORAL REXTS.

Mr. MORGAN asked the Treasure,·-" \Vhat total amount was received by

the Treasury for retrospective rents under the Land Act Amendment Act of 1919 for the year ended 30th J uno, 1922 ?"

The TREASURER (Hon. E. G. Theodore, Cltillar;oc) replied-

" £60,253 Ss. 3d."

A:l!OL'NT EXPENDED ON GOVERN:lll'NT HELIEF.

Mr. MOIWA::\1 (Jinr-illa) asked the Treasurer-

" \Yhat was the amount Pxpended in Government relief for the year ended 30th June, 1922 ?"

The TREASURER (Hon. E. G. Tlwodore, Chilla(JOI·) n•p:iod-

" .£174.094 lb. 10d."

FJX.\:X:C!:\L E31BATIGO AG_\IXS1' IT.\LL\}; A:·dl D.\c'ISH hnnGRAKTS.

c1Ir. l'ETF.lUlON (Xorrnanby) a-k<'d the· PremiPr~

" 1. Has the Government placed any fin1l.ncial embar[TO against the landing of ItaJjnn ilnn1igrants in QuePnslanc1?

'"2. Has the f-inancial 'E'tnbars:o placed: by the Qnoensland Government against Danish settler~ arriving in Quci!IlSla.n(( hoen rt>sc}ndcd ?

"3. Under >Yhat Statute. Federal m· Stnte. ha.-e th Qncenslan,l Govc.mllH'Jlt pow(~!' to 0nforce such cn1.bargo ?"

Tlw l'IC:\IIEH replied-.. I. No; nor has it power to do scJ.

'' 2. There never \vas such an e1nbarg-o. "3. The State has ro powers of r xclu-

sioll or achnlssion. such fu:nct1ons bcin~ vr stc•d :;:olf'ly in the Commonvrcalth.n

REDPCTION OF SAL\RIES AXD ALLOW.\KC'F..o OF 1\IJX!S'l'ER~ .\XD :ME~JBERS OF PARLLD1EX'1'.

Mr. PETERSO:"f asked the PremiN---" In .-icw of the dPc'sion of the Gnvcrll­

nwnt to app::v to the Arbitration Conrt, for a r0duction in thf' s!llaries and wngf'' of ciYil ;..r•rvants and State ('Inpln~Yl'Cf:. r •spectiYc!~-. will he t•kr into coneidcra­tion the adYisabilitv of the following:­{a) :\. l'P<luctioll in the ga}rrric-. of ~Iinj.__ tor": (/1) curtailing of travdling allow­anrc privilegcg accord0d :;_vr:ni~tcrs; (c) l'"during thP ::-alaric-· cf n1cmbcr-;, propor­tiQnatPlv to th{; d:!'tll1C'' of 0l0ctorah'~ frmn th.e seat of government? "

The PRKYIIER replied-" The Gc..-crtHncnt's inte-ntion~ will 1w

di,doscd at the prop ·r time. I wnuld lTmiml thP hem. mcmb~r thnt when hP 'at on this ~itlP of th0 House he was L.C·t chnnorou_., in hi"' dC'm'1 TH1 for jncrca :.,d Pnrlinmcntary allo\vanrc.

GoYEHX:\TI:~T ?vh:::\!BERS: l1car, heat~! , 11d

laughter.

REPORl' OF Y.\LC\'l'ION BO\Illl 0!-l As;,rc·o OF

BmsBA~;r.; Tn."!W.\YS Co~IPA::-<Y.

:Mr. KI:"'G (Lnyun) asked the Secretary f,r nailwav:-~

""·w;n he hP pi ased to place on tit,• table of tl1" Hou'c the report of th<' \falnabo!l Boan1 ~nnoint ... d to value tlw assets of the Brisbane TramwaYs Com .. vany, Li1nited ?" ,u

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (lion. ,J. Larcombe, [{ eppcl) replied--·

" For o1n¥ious rea~ons the report i~ of a conftdPntial nature at present."

Fm:cn PcLP biPORTED nTo QuEE::-<SLANn. 1\Ir. :VIAX\YELL (Brisbrzru) asked th<'

:'1-Iinistcr in Charge of State Enterprise;-·' \Vhnt qnantity of fruit pulp hes beeu

imported by his department from the· Southern Stateo; during the last twoln' rnonths ?''

HoN. \Y. FORGAN S~.HTH (Jiacka:n rcplied-

n TJH~ pulp of fruits not grown or pro­cnrab!P in Qnocnsland is imported fr"'" the Son1 h i11 snHicicnt quantities to rtH'f't

our r0q_ulrc:n0nts."

lKCO'\IE 'I'.' X AXD R>"TROSPEC'riVE REXTK CoLLECTED Fno:vr C \TTLE Ixnl::"TRY.

Mr. FLETCHER (Port Curtis) asked >he• Treasul'er-

" 1. y.,-hat \Yi:.l'3 the total arnount of incon1e tax rPC('iYLd by the Treasury frorn persons or compani8s cngngPd fn tlw cattle industry during-(a) filnncial yeor ended 30th J nno, 1921; (I;) financia I yea1· ended 30th J mw, 1922?

"2. \\'ha1 \\ '" the total anwunt of rdroepectiY<' rents collected from all ~Jourccs during ltt'·:t financial year'?

"3. (a) I:iow 1nany persons ot· coln­panics rcf...:civcd ext.nr:sion of tirno to pay retrospcctiYe l'l'nts ·r (h) \Yhat wa3 toted arnount of sarnP Y

"4. \Yhat is lho hbl of r<'lrosf"'ctiY•.• ror~t yet to bo collnctcd ':"

The TREASURER replied-

" 1. The annual report of the Con1n1is­sioner of Taxes sho'" s the tot a: arnount of tn,x a·~ <sscd to pastornlist-3 and prrs­tornJ co1npanics. Tho jnforrnation dis-·.:cttnF the tax paitl by :3hePp or cattle

men 1::; uot a yailablc.

" 2, 3. accl 4. It hae uot bceu po oible to prepare this infort11ation i11 the tin1o ava1lable. I snggcst that the hou. rneul­bor n1ove for a return.''

EXPOR'r CHARGE Ox LOG I'IXE.

Mr. BRAT\D (JJnrnun) asked the Sccrebn'\' for Public Lands-

" 1. Is it a fact that his departrncnt is making a charg·e of h. 3d. p0r 1,000 superfieial feet on the export of log pine to the Southern States by private enter­prise, . aLe! is issuing 1·eceipts on the collcctwn of same by tho State sawmills 1

" 2. If so, is this practice being adopted with the object of assisting this State enterprise to pay?

" 3. Does he not consider this charge on Queensland timbcu to other States in Australia an ex:po1't tax?

"4. I£ so, is this legal!"

The SECRETARY FOR PCBLIC LAT\DCl replied-

"1. No. "2. See answer to 1\o. 1. "3. Sec ans\YPr to 1\o. 1. "4. See ans\YC'l' to :'\o. 1."

INCOME TAX ON SALE OF i'dUKGANA MiciES.

Mr. GREEl\ (Townsvillc) asked the Troa-surer-

"1. vVas income tax charged and pa1d on the sale of the :Vlungana mines to the State Goyornment?

"2. If so, what was the actnal amount paid?"

The TREASuRER replied--" 1 ar:d 2. As the Rale did not ta1_,o

place .until 25th ~\larch, 1922, the tax to be pa1d on the profit (if any) mado by the sale wlll not. bo aP·SHsed until after 30th Septcm ber next, the da to on w hi eh return_s of incorno Parncd du1·ing thP financ1al year ended 30th j uw'. 1922, ar'' due."

57

I'iKER:IIAK lRRIG'T]()); SCHE}JE-AREA ANTl CHAHGES.

~\llr. GREEN asked the Treasurer-" 1. \Vhat is the area of land umkr

cultivation at prc~cnt being irrigated by thP Inkorman irrigation scheme '1

" 2. \Vhat is the estimat,od area of hnd under cultiyation to be supplied witn \Yater during the fo1~.hcorning t,velvt· 1nonths?

"3. \Vhat is the present annual ehar2'.' to benefiting fanns, per acre, cuttn at~~d area.?

'' 4. Is thf're ally other charge hr<n~'. made on bcudited :uoas ?"

The 'I'REASURER replied-" 1 and 2. This inforn1ation/ is being

obtlinul. "3. No ch<'rge wjll be decided upon

until the information referred to in Nos. 1 and 2 is collected.

"4. A special rate will be levied on farms which are provided with fluming.''

REPORT OF VALUATION BOARD ON ASSETS OF BRISBANE TRAMWAYS COMPANY.

Mr. KING, without notice, asked the Secretary for Railways-

" Will hon. members be permitted to peruse tho report of the valuation board appointed to value the assets of the Bris­bane Tramways Company, Limited?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS replied-

" I would refer the hon. member to mv ansv/er to bjs previous question." ~

MoTION FOR CREATION OF NEw STATES.

:VIr. BRAKD (l_lurrum), without notice, asked the hon. member for Rockhampton, .i\ir. Fordo-

,; Recognising the i1nportance and value to the new State-; movement of the ba•.,incss being transacted by the confer­enc~ at Albury, will he allow tho motion standing in his name on the business­paper this day to lapse until such time as the direction from the Albury conference has been carried into effect, such direc­tion being that, prior to submission to State Parlian1ents, a confcrenco be con­vened of members of Parliament favour­able io the now States ideal, quite irre­spective of party politics?"

11r. FORDE (Uockhampton) replied-" Seeing that the hon. memb<>r for

Burrum, in all the division lists, is seen voting side by side with the hon. member for Bulimba (Mr. Barnes)--"

Hon. W. H. BABNES: That shows his good sense.

Mr. FORDE-" And with the hon. member for

vVindsor, the author of that famous peti­tion to the Commissioner for Railways asking him not to disclose to the farmers particulars o£ the prices realised on their produce, it is no wonder that the hon. member for Burrum is ' in the bag ' on this question, and does not want the country districts to get the recognition that is duo to them."

(Loud lnnghtcr and interruption.)

58 .Proposed Amendment of LASSEMBLY . .J Ummnonwealth Uonstitut:o;, •

The SPEAKER: Order! I would ask hon. members to restrain the1melvcs.

Mr. BRAND : I desire to ask the hon. member for Rockhampton a further que.stion without notice-

"Is it a fact .that there has been initiated a mm·ement in North Queensland with the object of electing· hi m president of the republic of Central Qucon~land ?"

(Laug·hter.) Mr . .FORDE: Mr. Spcah·r, if ycm will

pprn1it rnc to an~wer that question, I will tC'll ~,~cu, Sir, that tlv~re is a ycrv live n1ove­mont in Centr·11 Queensland to out a republi­can and to elect me member for Capricornia.

GO>'ERNMENT ME~1BERS: Hear. !war! and laughter.

The SPl~AKER : Order '

PROPOSED AMENDMENT OF COMMON­WEALTH CO:-.JSTITUTION.

NEW STATES MOVEMENT.

:\lr. FORDE (Rockharnpton), in moYing-" That in the opinion of this Parlia­

ment, the time has arrived for the re­mo?elling cf the Commu1wealt.h C'onsti .. tutwn, providing for the subdivision of Australia into a greater number of self­governing .States, making for more economical a~1d effective government, and alss prondmg an easy method for the people liYing in any district, such as Central Queensland, or Northern New South \Vales, to obtain self-government, and that the Prime Minister of Aus­tralia be ~rged to take the necessary steps 'to bnng about thC';o refor.ns."

~aid: It. is osBentia'l~ \v-hen con~idoring, such a very 1mportant matter as this-a matter of national importance-to look at it from the viewpoint of Amtralia. Queensland is ono of the self-governing States of Australia and sornctimos it is /16. wPll th~1t hon. n1em~ bPrs in this I-J ouse should look bcvond the confbos of c;'ueensland etnd consider the interests of c'.nstralia as a whole. I hope that dm·inii t.hiJ debatp ther" will be a non-partv 3pirit displayed. The conclusion of th" World War ushers in the advent of a new world, and Australia, is taking ~tock of her position. and ;;he finds horsplf a m11ch more important nation than previously. She has to take a more important part in the counCils of the world, and "hat suited Aus­tralia as . a Cr:n~~tl.tutio~ for_ tv cnty years now reqmres reviSIOn. I thmk m·ery pat­riot10 Aust,·alian views with alarm tLat, urder her· present systcn1 of government "\u .. ~tra,lian 11.rodu~tion, DRpecially. her pr_irnnry nroduc­tJon, IS not r·rogrcesmg as lt should. In fact. in some Stat~s, I am sorry to cav that it is langui.,hing, pi!rticnlarly in S:tatco like v\· f'sbrn .A u~tra lia and South A ,-,,t.r, lia. In n1~uy cases thtro is an actual decline in rnml population. and, in order to prevent the h·cnd of pJpulation to the cities, we >h;cll hwo to cncmll'RGc pcoplu to o-o into the conntry districts. Country life mu~t he m1dc more attractive by the consC'rvation of water, h,v the construction of Ddditione.l railways and good r"Ja.ds; by proYiding better postal and telephonic communication, and by esteb­lis.hing n1odPrn civilised conYenienccs. there­by providing a market for prinuny pr-(jducts, which Tvill hrinrr in its h·;1in ,'1dditional manufactures. VVe want to build up our ,,v,nndar,: industrie.-. All that will mean additionrrl population and the e;;tablishment

fJtr. Fo1·de.

of a greatly increased hornn rnarket. That i5 of vitaJ in1portancc to Australia, and it eau b<' brought a bout more npidly by a ,ub­di vision of Australia into more manageable arcus, g1 vtng se If -go\·ernn1cnt to Central Queen<>land, North Queem'land, Northern New South Wales, and other portions of Australia that ask for it. The present time is a very appropriate one to car'ry such a motion as this, bee a uso there is rnecting in AlbuL·y the All-Australian Now Stat: s Con· ferenco, the object of which is to thrash out a policy common to all the Now Stateo move ments, with the idea of securing a definite amendment of the Commonwealth Constitu­tion, and deciding along what lines the New States propat5anda shall bo pursued in the future. This movement., w,hich is a very live ono in Albury, is a good ono, and I am pleased to be able to say that we have representing .Cer.tral Queensland at that conference l\Ir. W. S. Buzacott, the editor of the "Dailv Record." and '!Vlr. JYTawdes­ley, lhe secretary of the Rockhampton Har· bour Board-two very fine representatives who for years have been interested in the New Statcq movement in Central Queens­land, and who will pnt the case for Central (,'ucensland very cff<-ctin,ly before the very important conference in Albury. At the All-Australian New States Conference in Albury the following J:\ey: States movements arc represented:-

Riverina New State Movement; NorthPrn I'ew State Movement, New

South Wa.les; Kew States of Austmlia League,

Sydney; Australian Legion, Melbourne; Central Queensland Separation J\1ove­

ment; South-West Austr,Jian Separation

Movement; and Separation Movement, Northern

\V c:·:torn Australia. There arc ove1· sixty delegates present at the conference. and thev arc all men of some standing__:_men vvho uhaso rna.de a stu-dy of constitution;] historv--and tho rc-:ult of the conference >Yill b~ to establish Hrmly the New Stat~::s movcmPnL not only in Central Queensland and ::\!orthc·rn No'-' South \Vales. but n.H oyer A nstraha. rrnd tn educate the people on these important n1atters.

I ha l an opportunity of being- preser:t a.t the :\'c w Statc-< Conforonuo iu Arm1dale in April hLd y0ar. as th < repre::entativo of Central QueoiJSland, and 1 there met over

200 delegates from all parts of [4 p.m.J Xorth }\;ow Sonth \Valu. The

":orthern Xew South vVa.lcs League has 132 branehes, and those branches all the year round are raising money. They hold cornpetit:o'"s and bazaqrs, and raise large su~ns of mone~,-, and go in for propa­ganda work. which is very important to such a m.ovcmcnt as thi.:~. It is no use any centre cxpcctinz th0 Govcrnn1Pnt of a Stnte to _agree to the subdivision of the State vnthout nrovinr:r to th() Govcrnrnc~nt iH a. conYine~ng ~llG,IJfll'l' 1-hut ll'lb:ic f~~('linc: · b h1nd the n1ov0ment. It- is no u~e sending resolutions down unless thev can show that the majority of the people in the area are in favour of self-governtnent for that particular area~ and that is wlr I sily tlw: ,honld expect. :-t Go•.~('rnn-H'nt to do f'\"f'l'Yth1! 1[(. hy Ol'f~lnis::.:.tion, get a snffici0ntly lar<~·n lTICID­

bcrship to in1prc·E=s the State or lf'oderal

[li ,J lJLY.J Co-nunouu.·ealth Cun8lilitliun. 5!)

ntthoritiL·~- bejj~~\-<' wt' can du that in Central Qur~cn:--la11J.. \Yh··ll 1 v,·as i11 ::\urthern "''"'" f-!outh \'I' alP,, I ha cl an OfJJlOl'· tnnlty of r!,"c·ttillg round and ~c·Piug thn -euuntry, and, ju;:.:t to show hO\\. it has been held Lack _for want of ~e>H-goYlTHHlCllt. I want to po1nt out that it is a~ l'ich in sod and as good in clirnatl) as, if not better than. ,V"ictc:ria .. lt is as la,rgp aJ \'idol'ia, and nor ll!fcnor lll [t.t~y 1vay frotn a Hatural point of Yivw; ~· C't \ 1c_tona. with f-Plf-gon:rnrnont., ltas a Jll,)lnlatJOn of 1.500.000. a;; au;aiJbt \.·oJthl1 l'H ~~PIV Routh \Yah•s, v~·ith ~-JO.OOO IYillnul ~C'lt-!:tOYCl"lilnPJJt. '~-.idol'l: hn . ..; 4.000

of raihvays, u ag'ain.'St 1.000 n1ile'· uf in .:\iorthern )ie,•; bouth \Vales.

-~1

1H'l'l~. nre operat~ng in Vi<"tol'ia to-Jay 5,000 tndorH'·'. as against a fruit factor~r and a flour-mill or t\n) in ~orthPrn l'\c ~· South \Vale~. Queensland, at iht• time ·dJ<' got self. g-overnment, hn.d 25,000 peoplt). i)he now ha. '150.0~10 peoplP and 7,000 wilt•.< of milm1• ·'· lf ~he had 11ot g0t sepr:uatio11 fro:u :"-J(-w ;::;outh \Yales, ~he 'vould rot han• tnadc that J~rogT~'ss. In fact, l had tlw ple:1:-iUl'C' of ll_:;;t·l'·;nng to an addn,-Js delivC'J:'Cd bv Sir \\Tillianl Cnll(~n. the Chief .J ustico o( :'\e\v .South \Volp·;;, :1t _\rr!lidalP ::\iY\V Start~ Con­fl'l'PlH -, when hP rn..::·nnnh'd a conversation ll'liidi he had wit.h the late Sir Samuel

·Criflith, in Brisban<·. when Sir Samuel (;riffith said to him--

" I believe that. if Qneemland had not ~ot separation frorn x~~w South \Vales. .. he would not to-day haxe half of the population she has."

The cost of government in Ausi'ralia is ·too great. The taxpayers cannot stand the !wavy burden much longer. Government t11u '-t be simplified aud all the cxp, nsive and ttnrwc(•·,,sar.;- paraphernalia of g-oYel'nment lllust b'' cut out. Accordino· to " T\:nibbs '' the co~t ;)f p~rlial11entary o goYernmcnt in .\ustrnhn 1s £4o7.154 llf'l' annurn. The total ·c(·st of tlw ~PYen Purlian1t·nts. electoral office~-. and Royal ConEnis;;ions arnouuts to £9G2.619. or do;;e on a £1,~00,000 per annun1, IYhich- hns to be nwt by tho taxrHt\·ers of Australia. Then~ are 686 l11PmbPrs of l)arliunu~nt, and the cost of conducting the Conuno11wcalth l•:lcctoral Office alone is £94,536.

:Vir. VOWLES: A11d ,;ou v;nnt ancthl'l' Covf'rnn1cnt in the Xorth?

1\Ir\ 11'01-tDE: Ye~; but [ want to sin1plify a11cl cneapcn govern m ~'Ut. Instead of seventy­two rnPrnbcrs sitti11g in this corner of Queeri::;­land, I stand for twenty members here, t\vc•uty 1nr~rr1bcrs in Central Quc2nsland, and tvv •nt:¥' rnernhers in ::\orthern queensland, so 1 hat the people living in remote parts can be looked after. The townspeople and lawyers in the cities do not care about them.

~\.n 0PPOSITIOX lVIE,lBER: Do you eall that ·economy?

1\fr. FORDE: I \\'Oll]d economise )JV reducing the number of members in Au'­rralia. \\' o should economise. People cannot stand this burden, and particular]" the people l1l the country districts. on the farms, which hon. memb0r-, on the Oppo.,i· tion btonches misrepresent. The co-t of con­~lucting the Commonwealth Elcctoml Office alono is £94.536 per annum. The cost of the npkecp of the six State electoral offices is £43.4L3 per annum. The time is coming when (here must bo 000 c.,mmonwealth l<:loctoral Office dealing rYith both Federal an cl Sta' ) elections.

".1r. GHHN : \Yhy clo the Gor·ernment not ,!],, that, the same as South Australia?

1\'Ir-. FOHDE: I think it would load to PCOllOlnV. ~ooner or later it rr1u t come. If the hm;. member will vot~ for this motion, as l believe ho will, because ho ·lands for self-government for :\' orthcrn Queensland, h<> will be confirming my argument on that point.

I want to deal briefly with the hi. bry of the advocacy of self-go\ Cl'JJDlcnt fol' Cer1tral and Northern Queensland. The very earliest moYement in the direction of the division of Quer-nsland into self-governing provinces \Vas initiated in 1864, when there appeared in the Governor's Speech prepared by the Govern­ment led by the then Premier, Mr. Herbert, the follorving statement:-

" The question of local self-goverrnnent is of peculiar in1portancc to i11i.:; cDlony, in con:;;cqucnce of tho remotenc;c,S of many d its di,tricts from the seat of govern· rnent. A Bill wi!l be introduced to c•nable local affair3 to be administered, and local expenditure to be controlled by rn·ovincial councils."

In September, 1864, a Bill to C'•tablish pro· visional councils was passed. \Vith regard to the• birthplace of thC' separation movement, I am plea,od to say that Rockhampton was its birthplace. It was ,tartod thoro in 1866. or seven years after the great ro 'any of QuPonslaud '"as established. A petition on the subject ,,as SL'nt to the Imperial Govern· ment in that year, but it w", r0jected for the l'Cason that no resolution on ih~ subject had been n1ado before tho local Legislature. Of course, the local Lep;islnture was not oympathctic, and it was uot approached. The llf'~d 1noyc was P" petition to the Legislative ,\oscmhly pre;entod on 21st !\fay, 1867, by l\Ir. Charle;;; Fitzsin11nons and signe I by 531 n~sjdf~nts of Rockhan1pton and r eighbouring districts. The aJ,·oca('y was so sL·ong in tho • dnvs that Mr. A. H. PalmN, the Pn'rni{'l'.' introdnef'd a Bill tu pro"';idc fol' fl11a1JLial bC'paration ill tlw Ct}ntntl Divi~ion, the ?\Ol'th, and the South, bv the establish­ment of councils, but the Bill '"·a' lost. It met a similar fate in 1872, and a like result in 1876. and in 1877 it was introduced and 3gain defeated. The next rnovc was a scpara­ti.on me,,wrial, signed by the inhabitants of Central Quecns1and, which "' '" despatched t~ the Socrctr.ry of State for the Colonies on 24th ,Januflry, 18'71, but the thc.n Acting GoYernor, Sir lviaurire O'Connell. l"sertcd a p01 ~onrrl f'Xl1rf'ssion of opinion, ,vhlch read-

·• The~ rnaiter tn '"hich it refer" i.;; not yL·t ripe for ]c~-y1~1at:on.''

,\ further illtime.tion \\'tt made that tho Pu~rnicr, 11r. P~d:ner, v:aR di.:inclin0d to make; t.hc matlcr one' for deliberation in th" E, ccutlYe Counril. Thn GoYcrrnnent actually rf'fused tn rnake tbr subject one for delibera­tion in the Ex-ecutive Conncil at t.hnt time. Another petition \VHS fo . .,,.-n rdc l tbrough tlv• ;,larnnis 0f ::\"Tonnanbv, the then Govcr;·or, to tht' s('('\'C't~Jl'~- of Sra"tc' for th c ;le-mic-, Oll

2Cth D cr·rnl-.' r. lbll. The Governor, in on the vrtition to tbe Secretary

Sratf• fu1· ihe ColOnies at th11t time, said--" 'l'he "ubjcct is one which is left an

n1 !l qncstio~J v, ~th 1ny Council, and ono oil "·hich, as n ~G.ovc~;·nrnrnt, th~.y doclinec1 to offpr any au. vrre.

Th{'V ftilt>d ·ln their duty. They w-ould not oi1't,l· thPir opinion one way or the other. That is the attitude of rrory GuYl'rnmcnts on thP (' Iuatt(\l"' ..:\g-n.iu thr 'V('l'f' s1dctnu kcJ-thc pl oplc tlw de of ,-;;horn I repr<>~Pnt

Mr. Ff)frle

60 Proposed Amendiiu ,,[ of !. \SSEMBLY.j Commonwealth Const·itution.

to-day in the ((uec•u,Jand Parliament. In 1879 }.Ir. John ).I. ::.lacrr; ~an, lwin,r- rhc-:1 SPcn~­tary for \Vol'k.-., and .:\'I Ill\'", introdw ''d .:'in(l h~td pa~·-cd a !:ill to diYidl~ thC' coloJ1v lnt'J d,r tricts for finailcial ptnpo.~cs, nnd L) :'ld.iu~t t11e gcnC"rnl c:ud luc1J l'L"CCI])L:\ aud ('Xpenth­

~urc of th~ colony. ~\. rn·-tio} ,~·r1s intn;duccd m tho LcgJS]ative A' c,mblv bv ::\fr ::\lncro'<an in 1886 f~H thP ~-ubdivision. o( Q~f"~ll~~l~nd, .. but the mDbDrJ \Yas d~feated b:-;: a Jnnjf'l·it>· 0 _ m cm b['r,.:; n~J?l'C'St>11hng Southern QuPen<and. Another n1ot1on \Vas moYe·d by J\lr. )Iacr<"<3~H1 and ddeated in 1890. Thou !at 'J' 0:1 ::\lr. A. Archer, one of the members fm· Hockhampton, moved a. resolubon on the 1 ;th J'\on~mbcr, 1890. and It met the same fat'' as the [H'eYi­o"'iu~. ~;,olnt10n-; _1-~l~lon came _alo_ng ~Ir. G: S. Cu~t.I.;. Mr. Cu1bo about th1s hme carm~ mto pronnnence a-., an active arl.\·ocnte of ~~lf· government f?r Central Que:'nsland. lJ e took n. very prorrur~ent part indr:··d. Lc~t- me -ay hero that, although Mr. Curtjs a1Hl I d~) n~t seo eye to e.vl: on polltic~tl rnatu~r.~, he b-~­camo a very nble rcprcsentatin' in faYour CJ£ sclf:ts:overnr;wnt for Centr d Onc··mland. ~\ pctlllon wh_1ch CmfLnaied from Central Queem. land was s1gnec] bv 7.727 inhabitants, ard it wns SPnt do;,-n to P"rliament in 1890, but a ~eply was giVE'n to that p~tition stating that "he ~]U£>tion v-· s not yet np0 fo1· a dPci~ien. S;• 1t I'"' again sid<>tracked. On th(, 12th l',rJY('mhrt·, 1890, <L funlwr ''on1munication "' ~~·-, ~~ddn'',_·cd to BaTon I{.IJut~forlL ~ecretarv ~f ~t 1te fol' the Uoloni(";;; ilt E•_gland. b\' tw ~nty­slx mcrnlH'l'3 oi- 1he Lcgi~lat!Yl' ).~ ('rnblv .of quc0nsbnd, ,,d1o favour0d thr• :--('p·H·<:ttio;l of Central Quppn,,Jand. ), reply was re· eiYed t~at thr~ rnnt~Pr. wonld n•cr__.ivc• con":.idcrut1on. S1r II0nr."- \\'~vhe Nurm~ltl, t}H' Governor of Quecn:-;land, :rnado the fullo\\'jnr:r llH'tno at that tin1c: -- b • (

" I ~aY_c not a~ ~·pt been couYii:c ··d that :t maJOl'Ity of the pcop]c jn Cl•ntral Queensland dc~iro SL'paration.

~c, tho n:attcr l'.'as ag<:tin dropped, ru1cl the poopJe o.t .CL'!ltr~l Qu~·pnslnn:I y:,T'rP again fru·,trat~d 1n thc1r .D~·.::tre to chta1n sPp~lra­tJ'!n. Sn· S. W. Gnfhth, who was then Pre­mier. ?f. QuPensland. was opposed to tho subd!VlSion of Queensland into three co:onic'. Ho, ho\vever, was jnduccd by great pressure from Central and Northern Queensland, as a result of _a tour throu,i(h that part of the colony, tc~ mtroduce a BilL and that B.ll came before this As•,,0mbly on 23rd Jnno 1892. The real proposal in the Bill was for the division of Q,ueensland in~o three, provinc"'· Mr. A. f!· B~rlow rnovcu an amendment eliminating Centi a! Queen eland, and tho a ":t'nclmrnt was car~·je~:l. That arnendnwnt V\-as < tllTi<·~i bv a maJont:, of membet·s nf this AsBcrn.bly ,\,ho were oppo ''d to th<· Labour pai·h-. As the rc.'ult of that amendment !wing canicd, tho Btll was Withdrawn. Thoy we1·e playing with th_e peopl0. of Cc•ntral Qucel! Lll!d. Another B~ll w:,s Introduced cntit1(•d '· Con:-·t:tution B.11l, No. 2," auJ it proyidC'd fol' two pro­Vlll<·es, the~ Contrn fm·1ning part of Sonth9rn Que0nsla1td, \vhile ,,C'lf-govf'"'nmc·:t w:1s to be g-1·anted to :\'orthl'I'll QuC'en,.laEtl. Th~t Bill was carried h1 this As,, ·mbly ir;- tlnrh·-two votes to eight. The ]at<' S{r Rohcrc t'loilp was one of th~ strange ;t ~unnnrh-'1'.~ of that Bill; in fact, he \Yas a "·lLttnp-ion of :;elf­government fer ~orthf'··n Qnrf'n~lantl and for CentJ'I~l Qncc Js]at:{L TJ, third n-Hling of the B1ll was ca!'l'H'tl h,- t h1rt• Yok ~ to thir­tee_n. and it was then .;w11t np t.) th1 Lcvis­lahvf~ Council, whieh is now defunct.

GoYLRX:\IEXT ::\lr::.'.rnEns: Ill'ar, lH'HJ'

I,Ur. Fol'(l .

Mr. FOR DE: Even in tho;c davs t\Jo ill of the people of QuN'n,Jand was dcfoa ted bv the -Cppcr I-1ou~e. Tho sceond reading; ~f the Bill in the LegislatiYe Cou"cil wa cl"· f{ l.t,,cl hy w('YCDtC'C'D YOh~S tO r~inc. l UHt

g: od that to-da: no le[!islation pac ,,eel h.,- thi­~-\"~cnlbl)- ca11 bn dc,fcatcr1 by nr y oth~r l·od:,·.

Th(~ VP:l!' 18G3 vas the iH'Xt f-tngr~ in the· ·-pnar·Jt-.cn D10Yf'nH:ut. 1.1 h0n l\:lr. G. l-L Burnf', OJ{o of the members for 'l'ownsville, moved a rnct:on in favour of tPrritorial ~epnrabo'l for the Korthcrn portion of th-- rolo11v. That n'otion was dcfoatN1. Mr. G. S. Cnrtis. who· showed groat abilitv as a champion oi tlw s~paration rnovcme.nt in favo·n~ of self­government for Contra! Queensland, c-1mo into this Hou'o in 1893. On 20th Au"ust. 1893, Mr. Curtis movc·d a motion affirming­that as tho constituencies of th' Central Division had at the general election dcdared' in favour of t('ITitorial separation~ it wa~ desirable that the territory comprised within such division should be erected int'' a separate colonv That motion was defeated in thi& Rous~· by thirty-two votes to fifteen. I am n1entioning theso fact::; so tbat hon. mmnbers will know that it is no JH'W idect for th·c people of the c~ntrc and North to want separatipn. In fact, the people of Central .and Nm·thern Queen ,)and have be0n fightmg for self· government for oYer half a century. In 1893 tho women of Central Queensland took an inter< -t in the matter. and a petition signed bv 4 000 wome·1 w.t 'rnt to Her Majc .. h- the Qvuc~n a~king he1: to grant Central_ separation. A very diplomatiC reply was received to that petition. tatin;; that Her Majesiv was p:eascd to rccciYe it yery graciously. So again the peopl:' of Central Queel!Sland were 'et back. Tn 1893 the st'; '"ration convPntion assembled in Rrc·khan1pton and r .Lssed fi Y·P re>Jolutions }n r('fcrcncc.~ to the sC'p, ration of Central fron1 Southern and Xorthcrn Qn cn,;.:;lnnfl. rrht_·sr:· were fonv,udcd throngl1 tho prr,ident. Mr .. G S. Curti:;;, to the Gcvernor for h·ans­mission to IIer :\Iaje't\' thP Quc0n. They \VC're advi·cd of i:lH' l'f'."u1t b'\' Sir Thonla~ ~.Icllwrnith. y-ho sbtcd that it hod b<>comc· a Jnattcr for serious cm1 idcrat7o~. but. noth­ing further was done. Ag-ain the !YOple \\'ere siddra -ked. In the session of 1896 llr, late Hon. \V. Kidstnn, who rcpro,c·1tod Rock· harnpton in thi . .; Pnrliamr•nt, InovQd ~ furthe1~ motion ln conneci:lon with '"C'parubon. On 17th September. 1896. ~1r. Kid3ton moved a n1otion in f:l\·onr o{ taking a refcrendnn1 '·to· obtoin a direct <'xprcc· ion 0f 0pinion from the electors of Northern and CN:tral Queens­land as to the <10sirabilit:,- of their re 11ectiv"' distrjcts b0ing constltutPd SPparatc C'o1onjf's.'., That motion was dcf,.atcd bv t.\H•nty-fiv<' vote~ to fourteen. A ne thPr motion t'f :--irnilat· irnnorhl1H'f' wa~ tnov·ed b~c l\.1r. I(id5ton in 12'17, when his colleague. 111r. Curti~, n1ovcd an nmcml·.Jent dircctlv affir•ning that Central and :\orthern di visicns shouH be constituted· separate• co1oniPs. J\1r. Curtl~'s amcrdtnent ,vas put, and the result was t\Yonh.- ~'?t:s fo,t; t-he "~\ves" and twcnt:v for the ~oos. Mr. Snc~kPr Co,Yll'v voted with the "A~rcs.'' ond tl1c motion was therefore carried. Then whr.t happ<'ncd? 'fhat was nl::out three years before federation and th~ Quee1 sland Parlia­ment nflirnwd that there should be territorirtl F<rparation for Central anrl Northern Qnf'_cns­lan<l. and al;o that the people hurl o nghr to {roYP-rn tlJPin;;;ph-e~". I-Iowcver. what \vas wat~tetl w:r> an Act of Parliament. not a resolution. The then Government would not.

P1·oposed Amendmnlt of [6 JULY.] Con-monwealth Constitut-ion. 61

tako the question up. Federation then arri Yed, and the big issue swept th' people off their foot for a time, so the separation question was overshadowed.

The next move came from tho late Hon. T. J. Ryan, who, as mernbcr for Barcoo in the Queensland Parliament, moved on 28th .July, 1910-

" That, in the opinion of this House, the time has arrived when Queensland should be di, idcd into three StatPs, and when Central and Korthern Queensiand shou!d each be grant·2d a separate Con­st:tution, subject to the Constitution Act of thu Commom•. ealth of Australia."

That motion was put to the House and {'U!Tied but nothing further was done. which ~how., that pious rc::..olutions have no business in them., Legislation is what was required. The pecp!e were again sidetracked. In the •cs.;ion of 1913, Mr. John Adamson, who n'prcscntcd Rockhampton, tabled a motion afhrming that Queensland should be divided into thr.cc States with scparote Constitutions. 'What happened 'r That motion was defeated bv 27 Yotcs to 21. The division list shows t!lnt 1hc nwml1ors of the Labour party sup­Jlorted the mot'on. The division list was-

" Ayes (2J )-Messrs. Adamson, Archer, Crawford, Fihelly, Foloy, Giclies, Graut, I-!anlacrc, I(essell, Kin.yan, Land, Lar­combc, Lcnnon, ~I!lcros an, l\lay, McCor­mack. 1Turphy, O'SulliYan, Payn2, Ryan, and Th2odore.

" :"-fou (27)-Messrs. Appal, IY. II. Barn9s "--

I sec l\lr. W. H. Barnes Yotcd against that motion. I ha vc in mind that, when Mr. Barncs was in Rcckhampton recently, he told th:o people that he loved the poop' c of Contra! QueC'nsland. A ladv s~id to him: " Seeing that you icwc the people of Central Queen· land, can you tell the n why you voted against tho rnotio.:1 for fol£-goverrnnont in 1914 ·." l\'Ir, Barn< s replied, '' \Y gll, I real!' do 11ot knew. I think probably our lady ~fri0nd is l11lsil'formod." '"Oh, 110. :llir. Barnes," she replied, " I will quote to you page 1,146 of ' H ansard.' " She gave him the page and the chte, and, of cour e. he had to ,;t dcwn. She is a person who roads .and takes an interest in political issues.

:Yir. KElm: \Yho prepared that quo'c·ion for her?

Mr. FORDB : She pr<'parccl it herself. 'The other " Kocs" 1vcre-

" Mes'!'S. Bell, Bortram, Blair, Bou· chord, Bowman, Bridges. Caino, B. I-I. CC'rsor, E. B. C. Corser, Cribb, Donham, Forsvth. Gilday, Gunn, Hamilton, Horlge, P~ gC't, Pctric, Lieu-Col. Rank in, 1-fcs~rs.

,Swavno, Tolmil', Trout, \Vclsby, \Vin­stanlcy.''

'l.lr. KERR: Who is Nl:r. \Yinstanley? (OppO· sition lilught--r.)

l\Ir. FORDE: Well, if those Labour mPm· hers who voted with the " Noes " were ask eel quest'ons on the platf0rm thr2y would not tell lie' over it. Thov would tcl: the truth. Messrs. Barnes. Denha1n, Blair, Corscr, and others voted against it. And I "ant to _ay that -pressure was brought to bear on the Prime lltiini·•·.ter some tirrw ngo particularly as a rcmlt of th2t 1\cw Shte Conference' at Armi· dale, and a Constitution Convc tion Bill was introduced into the Federal Porliament. It was drawn llp in such a way that it was not

acceptable to the majority of the Federal ITl..>lnbt?r:-3-nO doubt, the Prime Minister know tiwt dwn he introduced it. Ho played with Dr. Page, the leader of the Federal Country party, and he had no difficulty in having the Bill thrm1 n out. On page 14,260 of Federal " Hansard " No. 108, session 192J·21, Mr. Hughc, said-

" The present position is well known to hon. rucm h~ r.-;. Th<.'rC is no prospect of the Bill being passed into law . . . I desire fUl thor to an,,ou .. ce that the Govprnment, at the earliest possible moment next session, will bring down such propo3cd an1cndrncnts of tho Con­>'titution as it thinks desirable, and afford the HoLtso the fre< t opportunity to sug· gost oth rs. Tho Governn1(mt will exer­cise its own right to determine which, if any, of such further amendments so suggested shall receive its suppoTt when tlwy are submitted to tile pcopl·c."

That. is \Yhat the Prime Minister told the Federal n1ornbcrs. He had no intention of passillg th~t Bill. I-Io wanted to corwi}jate lJL h1gc·--th:ro is no -doubt about it-one h ; on:y to road tlu' new,papers. lt will Le ·'''"11 th tt rdorm mu.;t come from the Federal Parliament·. and it is "'ell that we should pa·,s a motion such as this and show how, t·.ght frmn the Lrne the matt· r \vas I-irst moctod a vvay b 1ck in 1866, successive State Gm·ernments sidetracked the issuo. I would like to see the reforms brought about by the legislation of this Parliament, if possible; but past expcrjcnce over a period of fifty years makes that unlikely. So I say that the FodcTal Constitution should be amended to give the Federal Parliame:.t power to facili. tntc the giving uf self-governtneut to any recognised districts such as Central Queens· ho.nd and ::\'orthern Queensland. Section 123 oi the Commonwealth Constitution provides-

'' 'rhe Parliament of the Con1n1onw·caJth nuy, \vith the consent of the Parliament of a State, and the approval of the majMity of the e:cctor; of the State vot.ing UllOn the question, increa::<' 1

clim;nish. or otherwise alter tho limits of the State upon such terms and condi­t:ons <ls n1ay bo agreed on, and rnay, with the liku consent, rnako provision re pecting th' elL-et and operation of any increase or din1inut"on or altcraJ,ion of territory in ,., lation to an:· State affected."

And section 124 provides-" A new State may be formed by

separation of territory from a State. but or:ly with the consent of the Parliament thereof, and a new State may be form0d by the 1,mio" of two or mo;·e States or parts of States. but only with the consent of the l'arnaments of the States affected."

2'\ow, let me read what the Ln,bour party's plotform says with regard to the alteration or the Commonwealth Constitution-

" (1) Complete self.govornment as a British community.

" (2) The Commonwealth Constitution to be a·1wndecl to proviclo-

(a) Unlimited lq:;isktiyc powers for the Commonwealth Parliament, and such delegated powers to tho States or Provinces as the Commonwealth Parlia­ment mov dctnmine from time to time.

(I>) The Commonwc;t!th Parliament to be v< 'ted with authority to create now States or Provinces."

Mr. Ford~.]

62 Propo8ed .lrnewlmcut r:f [ASSE:\1BLY.] ('onunuuwculth Cotu-ditut ·o.

That IS important " The SL'natc to be abolished. Tlw

High Conr~, of Australia to haYc fine! junsdiction iH all Australian cases. The prinripal of adult suffrage to Le crnbodicd 1n thu Collstitution."

Now, iho Con11nonwealth Constitution i·-1 he third in a chain of four great wl'1tten Co11~ stitutions of English-spcaking people. Tho fundamental principle of th" American Cun­-titution is the weaknces of the central j)lH"Cr-.

That Coustitution makes the State Govern­ments the rivals of the central power. The result is State jealousies, which is very unsatiefactory, anJ it was adopted as the model for the Australian Constttution. The Canadian Constitution has as its funda­mental pr,nciple the strength of the central power. It ha, boon said that South Africa adopted the C>tnadian distribution of powers bc;twcen the central and local organs of government, but the South African scheme is not federal, but unitary. That is the principle which is popularly known as uni­fication. The South _,\lrican people selected that form of Constitution after they had had some experience of the Australian Constitu­tion. They would not follow the latter, according to the statement made by Major Belchor, the manager of the British Empire Mi"ion, when he was out here. They con­cidercd that the Canadian Constitntion suited th<cm much better. The Parliament of the Commonwealth cannot alter the Constitution of New South \Ya!Fo, and, COJ;scquently, the Australian Constitution is what is called a federated Constitution. On the other hand, thf' Parliament of South Africa can alter the Constitution of Cape Colony, and that is why it is uni fie a tory. It me>tns tl1a t the enntral Gov;··nlmPnt is the soYt'roign pov,Tl'r from which the powers arc delegated t'J ~tate <J~· Provincial Covcrnrnents and further j)O\VC'rs to DlUnicip-d COUllC'~ls, if crJf}::.](}crcd adYi"Rblc. I maintain that gTeat p1·og1·ess cnn be broug·ht a bout m or<' rapidly in Aus­tralia by a general snbdi\'ision of Au,traha into more manageable areas than by any other means I can think of.

Hero I want to quote what Dr. Dunmore L;:ng, the renowned legislator of New So·c~t1t \Vales in the early days, and a man who took a foremost part in the advocacy of self­govcrnlncnt for voha.t :is 110\Y known as Queen~­] ,nd. had to sav aftf!r his return from thte l:nitcd States of America--

" In the course of a visit to the Unitecl States of America in 18·'0, I learnt that :nu oh of thu social oom fort and happinc 's depended on their ha Ying the goYern­nlent ln all the n1oro ln1portant ro:";ccrn:-; of life brought to their ovvn doors throu~h i-l1e division of their rountrv into a nurH­bPr of >"pnrate States; aiso, that thc•y l1ad found frorn experience that from 40.000 to 50 000 square miles was a proper Pxt·•nt of t''rritory for a separate State."

It stand:-; to r0a:-on that even a station ls lwttoJ· m:tnagod within a radius of 20 miles i1·on1 tllc twaJ ;-taLon than within a radju . .:; of 50 mile' or 100 mile•, from the head -•aiion. A s\·~tPrn of :.:mall State-; n1C'Ul!:3 that thP GoY('rnn;ent rr~ rnorc svrnp tthr,tlc and thnt nH'mh:::-r~ of Parl1 •nH'nt~ have n bettc•r npportun.ity to get in t(nlCh with the people JWrsonn.lly. ~1inistcrs ean bccorno kno1vn to tllt' pPorlc and lcnrn their rcnnjrcmenis and the conditions under which tht\V live tnuclt ,,,ore intimctclv than thcv coulr1 in a. great State like QueP~v;land, \\hero it takc3 cloSe Dn

[ilf r. FrmlP.

a fortnight to trav0l fron1 one end to the· other. lt only reftuires f"'Hnrnon sense to, know that it would !eat! to better government and a liveii<>r sense of H\S]lOllsibility on the, part of the people outsic!e if we had as States ~urh didriets as Central Qucrnsland, North­ern Queen~land, and ~orthcrn _:\few South \Vales.

At 4.30 p.m., The CHAIR'ITAX OF CO'Il:lil'l'TEE8, l\1r. Kirwan

(Bri,banc), relieved the Speaker in the chair.

Mr. FORDE : I am <t great believer in a, member of Parliament knowing his people­getting in touch with thef!l, mixing am?ng them, living the same hfo as they hve. Australia is unique in tho pauc1ty of 1ts sub· divisions when compared with a.ll the other· large areas in the world. For insta.nce, take Brazil. It has an area of 3,200,000 square miles, and has twenty pro\'inces in adctit!on to its Contra! Government. The Argentme Hcpublic has ten provinces and fourteen ter­ritories to administer an area of 1,100,000 ''quare miles. Germany had about 200_,000 square miles and twenty-five State A?mmls­trations. The United States of Amenca, foJ' an area which is 900 square miles smaller than Australia, has forty-eight Govor!lments. as against Australia's five on the mamland. The progress of the United States, wluch started originallv with thirteen States for 3,000,000 people, has b<"en particularly m>;r)wzl since they went in for general subdiviSIOn. The State' in America are 50,000 to 60,000 ~ ~'luare 1nilcs in area, ·with the capital sorne­whero near the centre of the State. In fact. all the countries that have gone in for g,~noral subdivision prc"·cnt ycry striking instc:nces of rapid grO\vth of population followmg the di...-i~ion. of the existing areas and the crea­tion of additional States, because. they have been better nwnagcd, th0 ~ulxln1f:I011 h:lVlHft led to brtter g"O\'CJ'llHH'llt. I would not fur a moment ndwcatp that then' should be l'~Ltblishcd in Anstndia t\venty State Govcrn­!UCtli··;;, 'vith twenty Cppcr llon~<' '• tv.rc~tJ Qoy(•rnors, aud ·with the ~unH' expenf-olYl' gov ,'rnnH~ntal Inachin(:r.v as \Vf'. have to-day in the average Stat , m Australta. A lot of ihat c:ould he elirllina1t1 (l. The nundH'l' of Jncnlbf'r:S of Parliatucnt could LP reduced. nn(l, if QulCnf-land v. Pro di,·id~'d into thrut' Rtat.cs, each StatL' <~ould havP t\vcnty rrtPlll­Ler·~, but each Rtat(' n1u~,r han.:! ndcqnah· governing p<nn n~.

I will n·i\-e a few instances of tho rapid growth of States ufter the:c ha_ve obtained ~elf-·~'OYC'l'lllllC!lt. rrak0 Iowa, 1ll Arn\.. ne a. It has an area of 56,0:10 equaro mile,. In 1840, the nearest eensns to tlw c·c-ar in ,,·hieh tho State v.ras created, it had a rmpulnJion of 43,000, 'Ten years later it had a pnpulation of 192,000. In 1910 tho populatJOn wa · 2.224, 000. Kansas, with an an• a of 82,000 square miles, lmd a popultttion of 107 orn in 1860, and ircrea ,Nl lwr popu~vtion to 364.900 in ten Y!'ar , In 1910 sho had a populat;on of 1,606.000. l\iow take Ken'urky, with an area of 40.000 square miles anrl u of 73,000 in 13~0, 1n• )·Par !rJ rrf 'ttcd a State. lt incn'a.~cd it-; pnpu!tn:on to 220,000 in ten years. 'Take Wiser,:; i tL It :ncr(')a;~0d its pop11lntion L·on1 30 000 t:) 3J;_cvr, in ton yc-:7,r.::, bccnnsc it \YUS abl(~ tu look after the requirements of the pcopl , Lnd the 1cg-islator.'i, havinq a s1nall urea t:~ con­cr>ntra'tc- upon. could keep in tour:h with the people. The population of 1\li '"i,sippi iwTrascd from 8,000 to 40,GOQ m trn .-ears. Tennessee increa"Pd her populntion · fr0:n

Proposed Amendment o; L6 JULY.] C 'ommonwealth C'onstituti·on. 63

35,000 to 105,000 in ten ycurs. Oklahoma increased from 61,000 to 398.000. au<l in 1910 h. d a population nf 1.657,0JO. Illinois increased from 12.000 to 55 080 in tea years. Mark that sudden leap of population owing to good government ! In 1910, Illinois had a population of 5,638,000.

Good government from Southern Queens­land j., o. poor sub,titut<) foi· self-government. [ reccgEise that, since the present Govern­rnrmt CiLITlO into powpr, Central Queensland has had loss Tcason io feel aggrieved than t~ ,.-pr before, because we hav0 gonP in for f'UCh schernos as thn Da,,-~on Vallev \vater conscr­'.tation and irrigat.ion sehr:mc:; the Northern J3urneU schmnc, thG A!ton Downs Railway, ;md the North Coac;t Hailway. having- spent £2,000,000 on pnblic wmk- in Central Queens­land. Jn additioa, wu haw g·ivcn £2'i0,000 to tl:c Hockhampton council for providing a ne\v watur su 1lply. ] Il1l'ntion thP~ t' t.hingti tD ~how that the people ul l 'c,lltru! Qnecnslanrl kno\V they haYn goCJd go\~Prnrn<'Ii1 frmn the South. but they belioYo it is a poor substitute for self-government.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ordor! The hon. gentleman has Gxhausted the time allowed him under the Standing Orders.

Me. DASH !Jfundingburm) formally seconded the motion.

l\1r. PETERSO.N (Yormanb11): I am verv ploasccl at bavillg had the ~pportunik o'f li ·tening to the rcmarb of the hon. mcinher for Hockhampton in his advocacy of unifir 1-

tion and the principl1- of separation. One 'llll •.afely say that the speech of the hon. gcntlcn1an 1vab merely a repetition of ancient history, which he has col!atr·d from this little work published bv Charles Arrowsmith Ber­naJ s. Whilst the "hon. nwmber has been kind pnough to rnention the naJn( s of other authori­ties,. he has not had the d0cency to give erccht to the ge:ntle1nan \Yho hus be{~ll rc;;pon­sible for the \\hole of his quotations. I have ~ec!1 looking up i\lr. Bernay,'s book, an<! I <tf'S:tre to tender ITIJ' congTatulations to him on the ·'p1cndid information that is contained thr·rcin. Thc> hon. mcmher's spe~eh has been ono of quot:ttions. He has not given any argument why his motion should be sup­ported. I do not intend to support it. I am going to giye the .House un opportunity of eorning to a djvision on an amendment. Boion: doinc; so. I wish to refer .to the speech d_clivPrC"tl by. the. h_on. rm~mber. For a-long tunc I ''as drssat~ehed whrlst I was a member of the partv opposite. By the wav I do not take the slightest umbntgc at th~ir feeling sore over my defection. l must expect that. I myself used to feel sore at and sav hnrd things about mcmb·'rs who ldt th0 Labour party, and I am prepared to put up with the f'onsequoncos of baYing dorw so, bocau:;:p to thG best of my ability, I have oboved my conscience. The speech delivered bv the hori. rnomber is ono purely in favour Of unifica­tion, and is against tho spirit whirh ha~ bGen b 'hind the grl.:'at mon~rnent in Central Unr'<'l land for tlro last forty-five vears. I clr:dl~ng·c the hon. member to go 'into anv part of Central Queensland and arh-ocato thcrP l!nification as a solution of the troubles of Central Queensland. He knows that he lws sigued a pledge which practicallv binds hi1n to uniflcttion, and ho can t:pca.l~ in no other wav. He also know .. that he doe·· not st-·.nd fm: the separation cf Central Queens­land, but for the conYNsion of Central t~uceneland into a glorified municipal council. lie talks about the higb cost Df goycrnnwnt,

the rnainteuaiH:e of g·ov:.-ernm·ent, and thP root of it. Thai: is beside the· question, and all tlw authorities that he quoted, from M.r. C. ~- Curtis upwards or downwards, in every cas<' showed that the· agitation was in fa ,·our of Sl'paration with• full sovereign righL to the new Sta tcs that. w.erc created. The Iron. mcmhcr proposes to bving the people of Central Qw,.;nsiand down to the level of municipal councils.

Mr. FormE: I do not mean a~ything of the kiud, and you know it', tbo.

Mr. PETEHSON: I did not .. interrupt the hon. member when he was speaking. He haP. an opportunity of replying; and' will be in a position to reply to my arg·uments, if he is able.

Mr. Funi>E : l will finish my speech when I reply.

:\lr. l'ETI<:llSON: I believe all the speakers 011 thjs r;idc of tho House will be very brief. in order to give the hon. mcmbet· a chance of te·.ting his sincerity.

Mr. FmwE: \Ve know tho hon. member's sincerit:, •vhcn hP accepted' £35 from the Central Quecnsbnd Political Executive at the lacot election. Tell us about that.

l\-lr. l'ETERSO.N: I do not know what the• hon. n.wmber i" driving at.

~\tr. FoRDE: l will read the· letter.

Mr. PETERSON: If the Central Queenf'. Itmd l'olitieul Executive contributed· towards the el0ction 0xpcnscs in Normanby, it was not in Jlroportion to hat I put in myself, and the holl. mombee cannot deny that.

Tl1c DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I would ask the hrm. member for Normanby to confine his ren1arks to the n1otion before the HonsP.

l\Ir. PETERSOX: I quite' agree with you. Hir, that we should confine our remarks to tlw question bdor<1 the House, but a rather pC'r onnl staten1cnt: v. a-s rnadeJ and I JtaturaUv accepted the opportunity of replying-. l propose to move the following­arnendmcnt :-

" That all the words after ' that,' in the first line o£ the motion be deleted, with a view to substituting the following:-

This Parliament here by consent:; to the crc-..ttion of a new State con1prising the territcory known as North Queens­lane!. and a new State comprising the territory known as Central Queens­land."

TJre,·c' is no need to go beyond the present Comtitution, "·hich ha.- been provided by the lmvrinl authorities. That Constitution has a }n·c:·;ision that .. , o can secure self-govern~ mont for ne-.v 8tatf'3 in Queensland, if "\Ve

care to take tbc necessar:Y steps. For years. pa,t in Queensland it was no usa going to. the ntmost limits, for the simple reason that

c hoc! an Upper House to contend with. and lt .t, n~_-tally accented by hon. mem­lwr, th:ri that bodv Potlicl not vote for a rnotion ~tic't a:-; ·~ hf· ~H1P I havl' indicated. In 'ectio;, 12.: ol' tf;" t<'t'doml ConstitutioH the follo-...viE~; proYi:.:.lon i-., made:-

. · ...-\ new Htn i.e -;-nay b~:- formed by the :-;·;parutio11 of torritory frorn a State, but o·:lv ''"ith th,, rcmscnt of tho Parliament th0.rpof, and a l!OW St. ~e 1nay be formed bY the u11ion of t-...\'0 or rnorc States or p;ut3 of States. but only with the consent uf the J'urliamcnt:J of the State.' affected."

Jir. Peterson.J.

61 Proposed A.rnn1dment of [ASSEMBLY.] Con~nwnwealth Co.,, <.;fituiion.

You have thoro absolute power for this House to grant separation to Central and Northern Queensland. The hon. member for Rock­han1pton, in orc~Gr to got a hugo advertise­ment in Contra! ~uoonoland, comes along here with a can1ouHage-,"onwthing like the Labour objective-to pose as the political illo.;c,' of Central QLJGensland. 'l'he thing is absurd. I arn going to g-i\-o the hon. mon1-ber an opportunity of voting against this anu .... ndrnout, and to sat.jsfv the people of Central Queensland that h; is not prepar~d to grunt tho~n an innnodiato opportullity or ol.Jt<tiEing fP-paration.

:\[r. Gr,EDSON: Is that a Country party aruendrnont?

Mr. l'E'l'ERSO;\[: No. Probably there <ll'(; hon. n1omlwr:::1 on this. ~ide, a, ,,,o1l a~. lH'll, n1em bors ou the other side, 1d1o \vill vote agaitLt the arnondn1ent, and against the xnotion, if tho rnotion i.' put.

]}fr. B.EHBINGTOX: I do not tbink so.

!\fr. PETERSO:-.;: This is my own busi­llO'S, ao one of the members from Central Quccmla:Jd. The reu,,on why I support the amendment is bocc1uso I lwlieve that, "ith a unifiL'cL sysL•id of go\~crnnH'nt~ v:o eannot hope~ to achieve thnt suc~ce;,s that \Ye can under a 6ysiorn of !:OYcrnnH r;t '.1 it h so'i~creign rights. L1 1909, lh population in C\'orthcrn (, w·~n. land v, 11s 122,614, and on the r,th April. 1921-·t\colYe years later-the population had i!~rrcascd to 129.756, or an iHCi'C.1SC of a, little o-.·cr 7,000. What becomes of the talk of the bon. member for Hcrbort about the great prosperity of the J'-im Lh in the face of these figure·i? The population in Central ( ueen,Lcnd in 1909 was 70,859, and twelve years la tcr it was 88 945. Taking tho Southern Divi,ion-which is the crux of the whole position-we find the population in 1909 was 364,764, and tweh~ years later it was 538.933, cicrrdy showing that the drift of the pJpulation, through the lack of htwing soycroign and self-governing States, is to\va'rds tho t apitu.L U nlcss we have an opportunity of changing the system that we have operating against us to-day, we can­not hope to develop Queen;land in the way it should be developed. It is not my inten­tion to speak at groat length, and I do not Fant to be accusod of talking this matter out. I am not going to take my full time. I want the House to come to a division to show where the hon. member for Rook­hampton stands, and whether he is a true separationist, so far as Central Queensland is concerned. The hon. member in his speech took care not to mention the fact that the Federal House of Representatives has already assented to the pnnciple of dividing the State of l'.;:ueendand. 'l'he hon. member quoted many authorities, but he never men­tioned that tho Federal member for Capri­cornia introduced this motion on the subject m the Federal Parliament in 1912-

" That this House. with th0 consent of the Parliament of Queensland "--

We hn ve to got the consent of the Queens­land Pftr!iamePt first. What is the use of talking about what any conference at Albury, or any other place, has done? \Ve ha,·e the Federal Constitution, wbich says that once the (,'ueensland Parliament has "£;reed to separation it is an a >sured fact. Th' hon. member does not want sovereign rig·hts for Central Queensland, but he wants t8 bring that part of the State down, so that it can

[ 111 r. Feten.iJJt.

<'r)lllC undoJ· the ociali~tic objcc·tive-, of which l~C is a bollll-sb n', under the syctern of nnificat1on.

Mr. FonnE: Thnt is untrue, and you knc> ,,. ~I;.

I1ir. l'ETEHSOX: The hon. member £,,.. Capricornia, l\Ir. \V. G. Higgs, 1novcd thP following n1otion, which wa~ can·ied una.ni­mously by the Federal Parliament:-

"That this House. with the conscc,t o{ thP Parliamtnt of Quccmlaad. and in ~lcrord<1nce with C'ba1)tor 6 of the (;oul­rnon \Y<'alth Constitution, is. prepared to fo1·,n two nt;\V Statci, out of the L.n·ritory now kno,vn as ~'\orthcrn and Centra: Quecaslaud.

" 1'hat this resolution l;c forwarded to the Senate with a request for its CO!:l­

Clurcnce therein.''

Tlmt did not end the business. \Vhile tlH· Federal l!ouso of Rcprc3cntativos rna.~r have pnssed that motion a .• d sho\Yed that, it WfLS

J•reparcd to approve of the division of Quoensl ond into three States, the rewomi­bility sti;l rests with 1he Quccnslend Parlia­ment to declare whether or not tne people, of Centrd Queensland shall have sl'paratim•. I am sOlTV that the ho:J. member for Rod<­harnpton btu taken up h~s present attitudP. If hon. rnmnbcrs look at the tnotJoc. they wi~l seo that he was in such a trc.ncndouo burr;: to got it before the Hou c that lH· fcrg,ot to include " North Cuocnsland." Fie rucnt.loned tlw Northern district of Kcw South \Vales, c· nd also Uc:Jtral Qum~nsland. but ho ~,Jrgot tu put in any word \Yhatcvcr about NorLh (Juccnsland.

J\1r. FoRDE: I said " and other distri·cb in the State."

Mr. PETERS();'\: I am going to read the bon. mc111bor's 1notion, and then v.-c , hall SO(•

what he is driving at, and \vbethcr thel"e 1s a.::1y chanro of gctti11g an, vvherc in vicvv ot thl' aC:10lldmont I haYe lnoveJ. rrne rnotiO!l r 0 ads-

" That, m the opinion of this Parlia­ment, the time has arrJYcd for tlw rerHodclling of the Co.n1ncnwLalth Con­stitution providing for the subdivision of ~\.ustralia into a gre 'tor number of self-governing States--"

Has the hon. member only just come into existence'! \V o have already got these powers under the Con,titution. \Yhy doe'" he want to waste time when the workers are starvinv. in their thousar ds? \Vb0n the people are dema"Jding work, and when we should bo doing so:nething for tho :- .:tlarle::; wo arP getting here, what effrontery and what check on the part of the hon. me.nber for him to come along hc1·o and giye us dope like this, when we already have the pO\Yer. The motion continu(S-

'< making fer more economical and cffcc~ tive government, and also providing an oa:;y 1nothod for the pcoplo livina: in any district. such as Central (~ueensland."

Is there anything easier than the chance the hon. member already has? All he has to do is to get a majority of hon. rncmbcrs sittin~ on his own side of the House to carry the amendment I have moved. anc1 then he could probably go back to Central Queensland and >ty, " \Vo ha vo got separation for Centr>1l

Queensland and for Kortlicrn Quco·lSland at last." His motion gets nowhere. lt is only a. little phase in the political campaign for the

[H .Jnx.] ( 'omJnon wealth ( 'o118fi tu! io11. ()5

rmrpoo0 of boosting himeelf at the expense <Jf his fellow Central memhers. Ho is not ]Wepa1·or! to play the man in his doctorate. He gor•:s floking his no~c into onr cJ0ctorate..:;. i11 ordt•r to dis{'l'f'dit us, and. i11stead of eon-3ulting us in the matter, }H~ brings forward an absurd 1notion such as this, which 1nakcs him appPar ridiculous. I trust the House will cany th0 amC'ndmt>nt.

Mr. GREEX (1'own.q:il/c): It gi,-es me very much plc•asnrc to SPrond thC' alll{'lldnlent HJtwcd h.1· the hon. nH'mbPt for Xormanb)·. ~h. FoHDE: "·.hat is the anwntlm<>nt ·:

:Yfr. UREEX: lt proYides for self-gowrn­nwnt for Central t-2u~e1J:::;lnnd an(l Kortltern i~ttC'cnslancl.

The Hoi>n: i'ECRET.\HY: Xo, it does not.

:Ylr-. GREEi\: That j, the object of tlw .amonchne·nt. ·

The liO".lJE SECHET.\HY: Do -,·ou t_J!r]'('l' \\ i-:-h tb" hon. HH'm ber for X onuan b:> ·: ·"

1fr. GREJ~X: I agrcP with tho holl. 1110111-ber for Normanby that a motion has onl,­to b" cwricd by this House for Xorthern and l\::JJtral sPparation to 1wccnne a feu t.

The H03IE SECHETARY: J T e mid it ".'" .already can·if'(l l1y thf' FPderal Parliaiul'nt.

~\Ir. GREK": He said it was carri0d lw the~ Federal HousP of R0prc:·~entatiYPs by ;t tUHtninHnl:-; YOtC', but that it had not l)c('ll <·arricd by thn ScuatP. If this I-lous<• agre0~ tn pas':i a dir~"t n1otion in favour of SPpara­tion, ruaklng it a tang·iblP affair, th0•1 I fPel :-::.urP '"" ~hall ~laYC gonp n long way to bring· <thout. ~P~Hlrahon for Cf'ntral and Xortlwrn Queensland.

The I-IoME SECRETARY: '\V<> can frpt control of the Se-11at0 1Hr this n10ans. n

31r. GHEK::.;: I stand absolntelv for fi<~paration of a. tangible kind. I do not ,~·ant unif~r.ation. and . I do not want glori­fied rnunif'lpaJ connc1ls g-overning- CPntral QucPnsland 'nd Xm·thern Queenslantl. If we want to rleYelop Xorthern and C'Pntral QuC'enslanJ, IYC 1nnst ha.Ye :-:.ovProicrn rights. for each division. That i' what we"' d0mand, ~md it i,; for tlutt reason that I am support­mg the amenrlm<>nt. In so doing, I f0el that r am following- in the footsh']" of two of the grC'a tf'st sta h)smen \VP have had in Queensland-tlw late Sir RobPJ't J'hilp and the !at.: Hon. ,J. ~;1. Jl.iacros,;an--who fought 1n and out of season for Sf'parat.ion .._for :'-I orth QucPns] and. \V hen there were traitors in the camp, those hi·o mPn stood firm and true to their principles. I do not intend to S]Wak at any length on the amend­rnent, becau>Sc 1 want a division taken to sec how hon. members stand on th0 qu<'stion. JI.Iy rt•ason for supporting the amendment is that it is the onlv method of developing North Quecns!n.nd a'nd Central Queensland. and a11owing t}lo,;c two great portions of the St•te to come into their own. The hon. lllE'.ll1bPr who has jw~:t resumed hi::;. sPat

showed us the growth of population in those two g-rcctt district' during the last thirteen yc>ars. and it is a disgrace to Qu~..•onRland that the richc•st portions of this gr0at StatP. should have shown ~o 1itt1e advn.nrt'HlPnt dnrin~ that period. I do not condemn tlw present GoYPJTtlllC'llt, no1· do I condmnn pa~;t GoYNnmcnts, but I do say that Queensland is too .-ast a State to be rnlcd from a corner in the South. Hon. nwmbers of this 1-Iou"' do not realise tho greatnt:>ss of the State of Queensland. The town which I represent i" only half-way along the Queensland coaet,

1922-}'

and. if ,,-e ]ook at t-hp ·wondrrful rc.-.ourcoR of XortiJ Qll•''""land an<l "'" tlH' littlo tha.t has bet•ll dnn<' for tlw dt•Yclopment of those l'P':'>Ol!J'('('~. f f<~Pl :;;ul'f' that f'\'Pl'V bnn. lllOlll­

\,pJ of this 1-Io"''' "·ill ,tand al~solntely and 11nitPdh· for i:hP t!i1·ision of the State into thn•p J.nlrtion:;;.

ThP Hom: HEC'.llET.\HY: I _,-ill Yott' for the <lllli'Iid!llPJJt if YOl.1 call a::;Hlll'C DlP that thf'l'O

will bt' t>iglJtnc:•n ::>C'JUJtor:-:; fron1 Qu('cnsland.

:\Ir. GHEE:\: H \le havP thJ'<'C States "\\t' \\ill lJa\-(' cightPP!l :->f'JlHlOl'~.

:\lr. l'or.LOCK: \Yhy stop at thrt'C :-;tatcs 9

:\Ir. GH I<:EK: \Ylwn tlw hon. member look~ n.t 1-liP lH)J·t.ion of .:"\orth (<2tH:Pnsland that 11{' l'l'lJl'("~t'Tlt·--, and ~-pe-s hcnv 1ittle dc­Yr·lopntent has takPH place tlH'rein, I am ,m·pri't·tl that lw should pnt any difficulties i11 tlw ·wa~v of ~i)pand·jon corniug· about .

111'. PoLLOC'k: \'ou hav(' ~quPt'Zl'd out rtll tlH' cherni:-:ts thcl'('.

J\fr. GREE}'\: And you sqn!CK'zed out John \Yrt>n.

:Mr. I'or.r.orK: You arc a liar if you say I sqncPz<'d John \Yren.

:\fr. UREE:'\: The lwn. mt>mber for BurkP sai<l ho n•prPsented onP of the ri{'hest portions of Queensland.

~fr. PoLLOCK: You are a .djrty liar.

:\Ir. GREI<:N: If that portion were deYelotwd and came into it' own--

:\Ir. POLLtlCK : I ri~e to a point of orc1er. ThP hoil. llll'lnllC'r for rro\vnsville~ T und0rstand--I <lid not ('ntch what he said pNsonally-said that I squePzPd ,John \Vr~m. (Opposition !aughkr.) Tlw only constructiOn [ C':tll p}ncP oll that js 11 <'OllStl'HPtion that ~0 hoiu•:;:t !l!c~tulH•r of Pnrlia.nwnt could perm1t, and I ask that the expression be withdrawn.

~1r. \~0\YLLS: .You Yi·ithdraw \Yhat you ;;:ald.

Th<• DEl'( TY :-;pE.\KER: l\,; the hotl. ll!PmbPr for Grcgory rPgar·<ls tlw rentark as lH_)ing <1ffPllsivt', T would a~k the hon. rnmu­h<'l' for Towmn·illP to ·witlulra1ov.

::\Ir. GTU;E:X: If th0 hon. nwmber for Cr<•gory regards thP n-'IIl11rk as offensive: I .,-ill ,,-itbdmw it: but r ask your protectwn from thP hon. nwmlwr. wh"o said that I -...quN'ZPd f'ertain other indiYidnal~ o11t of (inernslantl.

:\Ir. Por.r.ocK: That is true. :\Ir. UREEN : If therP is to b0 courtesy

on one side, the same rourte>sy shonJd bo Pxtcnded on the other.

:\Tr. VO\VLES: 'I'ho hon. memhor for Grcl(Ot"'· 'llid that the hon. member for rC0\~"11~"\:ilJP \YaS a dirty }iar, alJd he said prPYiow..:.]:-7 +hat 1-lH' hon. l11PnlbPI' \Yas a. liar. and I ask that those words he with­dra "'\\ n lllll'P:-<Prvcdlv.

Th0 DEFCTY .SPEAKER: If tlw hon. ntcrnbc·l' for Gr<~gory rnudr use of that cx­pn :;Rion. I hope hP \'i-ill v~·ithdra.\v it, as it i5 ]1ardly parlianlPntary.

:\Il-. l'OLLOCK: As the ho11. nu'Iul>cr by with,lra" 111rr hif-i 'tatenH'I1t has proved that lH' ]..., 110t nZ,, u liar. 1 \\ ithilraw

'\Ir. CRl•:E:X: The hon. member for Urcgor-· ha--, n1anif0sted his lUlDUtnJjness, which 'lw has , ... _hibitcd time and again in this House. I treat the hon. member a.s beneath contempt.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order ! Will thP hon. member proceed with his speech.

Mr. Green.·j

66 Proposed AmeiHiment of [ASSI•~MBL Y.]

Mr. GREEi'\ : The hon. member for Burk<·, in dealing with North Queensland. stated that if it was developed it would become ono d the richest portion,; of this State. How can he expect to have it de­veloped unless thPy g<'t s.elf-government? I trust that the House will come to a divi­sion in connection with this matter, because I am in earnest, and I am sincere. and I believe that the people of North Queensland and Centra.! Queensland absolutely stand for separation fm· North Queensland and sep­aration for Central Quc 0 nsland. I know that, if thu House >LgrPes to the amendment, it will give great ·-atisfaction to tlw _advo­cates of seprrrntion i1 both those portions of Queensland.

Mr. GLEDSOi'\ (fpsli':c;,): I desin· to oppose the anh'nchncnt JTlOVC'd b'" t11c· hon. n1embcr for ::\"orrnanbv. The bo'IJ. n1e1ubPr HhD\VS his inconsist ne:;:. j-;_J.:ot a,, Jw has shown hi~ inconsi~tenc:v on previous oc·ca:;;loBs. ]n Jnoving such au an1endn1ent as this. Tlw hon. Incn1ber now n1oves Dn a1nendrncnt, for

th(' Cr('at.ion of hYU 11l'\V ~tatP!'l [5 p.rn.J in Qucr~nsland-two nev; Parlia-

monb with all thC' eons-:·qu('nt expenditure--although to"da v he asked a question about the reduction of the cost in <·onnection with this Parliament. Although to-day he i» arguing that the salaries of hon. members be reduced, he threatened previouslv to leave the Labour party because his salary was not big enough. He threatened to ieave the party if they would not do something to increase the salary of hon. members.

Mr. PETERSON: That is untrue. I ri,;e ro a point of order.

The flEClU2TARY .FOR AGRICPLTURE: Quilt• true.

Mr. PET~=Rf\ON: I risf' to a point of order. The r·, marks attributed to me bv the hon. Ynet11bC'r for Ipswich arc ab~Dluh;ly untrue. "-' d l ask him to wit-hdraw them.

:\·ll-. WrNSTA:<iLEY : Perfectly true. )Jr·. GLEDSO"i: ::\'Ir. Peterson--:1-Ir. PETERSON: You 1ook after the Ipswich

raihvay \Vorkers.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I would ask the hon. member for Ipswich to ,,rfer to the hon. member by th~ name of his electorate.

Mr. GLEDSON: The hon. member. for Normanby, in addition to that. said that the cost of conducting his election for Normanby was so great that he could not remain a. m mber of Parliament.

Mr. l'ETERSON: That '" absolutely untrue. I rise to a point of order. The statement made bv the hon. member for Ipswich is absoluteiy untrue, and I ask for its withdrawal.

Mr. \VJNSTANLEY: It ;, not untrue.

'l'he DEPUTY SPI~AKER: I think tlw hon. member has not sustained his obj ctiou under tlw Standing Orders.

The I-J 0:\IE SECRE'l'."..RY: .._4_ denial of tht~ t-ruth does r){)t make it untrue.

Mr. FRY (Kurilpa): Last session you ruled, Sir, that if an hon. member took exception to a statement made by another hon. member, that hon. member must w;thdraw it. That was t-he ruling you gave in my case. I hope ~·ou will do the same with the hon. m em Ler for Ipswich.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: OrJ(;r:

[.ili r. Green.

:.\Ir. GLEDSON: I hope that hon. members on both -,idl'S will take it from mo that I arn no~ in the habit of rnaking tnisstatcment•s. I '\ronld nPithor rHake a n1it'l-statcment nor tell an untruth about tho hon. member for ~orntanhy. indPpundent of w·hat. ho has don0 in this Ho us., or a bout any other hon. membP.r of the House, and hon. members know that.

Mr. PETERSON: I did not say it. Mr. \VrxSTANLEY: You die! say it.

;\Tr. GLEDSON: Th" hon. m<'lnber for :'\m·"'"nby asks th(' f-Iou-'e to accept an amend­nH·ni sne:h as thiB, and at. ihe :-.~tnw tinH" lH.~ hrin~~ for\vurd tht- ineonsistcwy of tht· hon. ni·"IHht-r for Rockhc.n1pton-a 1nan \vho~-n 1v)(r(>·. th _, hon. n1nmlK:r for Xorman;_Jv Is 1wt fit to wipe. (Loud Opp. "it ion laughh~r.)

Tlw DEPUTY SPEAKER: OrdPr'

:\lr. GLEDSOX: :i sav th.<( t·lw hon. IIH'lll

h0r fur i'.;ot'Illanby \Vas p~)1ttting out the incon­sioten .. v of the hon. member for Hockhampton -a man whobo boots he ifl not fit to wipe­and hon. nu-nlbPrs oppo~;to find sorncthing to htugh at in the statoment. The hon. member for :'\ormanbY makes the statement that the hon. Hll·mbm: for Hockhampton and others

Te golng· about. his electorate trying to dan1agt> him. and to erH:tte a. fa.lse intpression in the minds of the p]cctors, but that is not <'OlTc·ct. The hon. rnomhm· for Rockhampton, myeelf, and other hon. members havo had opportunit;· to gn in~.> that elr>ciornt.e, as we havP gone into others, and tell the eleetors the truth about the man whDm thl'7 selected t-o represent them on the Labour tickl't, and who has turned round and i> doing all he can against tlw intprests of the workers. I said that thl' ckctors of Normanby were doubly cursed hecausP they had not only a repn·senta tivo who had turned ag·ainst them in thP State Parliament, but also a repre>-entativo who had turned against them in the Federal Parliament. \V e were out to do what we could to wipP the State, clear of men like th;1t both in Federal and State Par!ianwnts. Not only thP hem. membm· for Roekhampton, but '"' -J'.Y member of the Labour party, has a. right to r,o out and tell the electors of Queens­land what their repre"entativPs dD in this Hous<'. They thcm>.eh-es ar0 not game to go up and tell th m. 'l'hey do not go near them nt all, but thoy come into this House and votcJ, and work, and speak against the pledge they eigne-cl when they were deetDd. An hon. member lik that actually moves an amend­ment for the purpos•J of inerPosing the cost of government of this State. For the purposo of trying to get support for his amendment he usoR the argument that the i'\orthn·n >tnd Ccnb·al portions of thP State are being neglected by the Government. Let us take tlw hrm. rnombpr's own words, and find out \Vha~ he said about the n0glect of the Govcrn­rnf~nt. On ono ocrasion he Raid-

,, I am getting a good l1f-,,! for the faTill(-'ri-J of tho {'t~ntral ·district, and othcr­lllllrnbcrs with me• l1n ,-e been a blc to get t•oncr,:-:~siow·> for thn farn1C'te1 that they IH'YPr got frora tho Lib0ral Governm·ent. That is because we have a sympathetic­GovPrnn1cnt."

1\'Ir. l'ETEP.SO:-<: I 'tid that. I do not deny that.

Mr. FLETCHER (Po-rt Cm·tis): I rise to a point of order. Is the hon. member for· Ipswich in ord''r in referrin!l' to mrttters whieh have nothint; to dD with tro question under discussion?

fo ,Jt:LY. J

Mr. GLEDSON: I do not know whv tb•c hon. nwmber for Port Curtis interrupts ""' in thiR wrty. Perhaps he h>Ls a kindly feeling· for the hon. mPmbcr for Normanby. They :.:;een1 to ha, V<' a vPry kindly fp(~ling for one rtnothcr. One loft tlw Labour party and th<' other kft thP Kationali>'t party, and no\Y they Loth >it check !J:c jmd in this H ous<' trying to protcc~ nnP another. H('re is anoth£'r quotntio11 front n :,pf'ech rnctdc b_v t.he hon. nl('IflbPr for :\orttlf',nhy in this Honsc--- ~

·• J-le would 1wve1· lw <lone thanking tlw t~ovcrnnwnt, nor \'l'ould t.ho settlers evc-r be done thanking thP Gon~nuncnt, for tho assistance that ha~ L('f:'n giv~~n to thern.''

1\Ir. PE'rERSOX: \Yhat year "'"''" that'!

Mr. GLEDS::)X: That was on 26th Oct.{}Lcr, 1915.

l\1r. PETEm;ox: 1915: '{on hav<' damn0<.l tho country sin('c~ then.

I\'h. GLEDSOX: Theu, m tlte following ,:ear. the hon. n1e1nber for .Xormanhy made .{1~0 nf these word~-

" T}w longer l ant in Parl-ian1ent the more I am convinced of the utter hypoc­risv of members on that side of the Hous'' who claim to be tlu• friends of the n1u1 on tlw land. I havl~ ~.;eC'n hn_-, trlt:Jtt~ hers, who !JOS<' as the rcpresentatin•s of the man on the land, to-day make an ••xhibition of thems<'lw·s in irrelevancy, in innnature facts, and in :-;t::.ternonts whic·h cannot be borne out by facts."

The DEPVTY SPE'AKER: Ord0r! I ask the hon. member to connect his rrmarks to thP ·qne·,tion b0forc t.hc House.

Mr. l'ETERSOx: H is nothing but abuse.

Mr. VowLES: He is killing time. He wants to talk the motion ont.

'l'hL' DEFC'l'Y Urdpr!

SPEAKER: <lrder:

Mr. GLEDSON: .\n amendment has bPe>n moved hv the hon. member for Normanb,· to omit certain words from the motion anrl to provide for two Parliaments to be set up-ono in Central Queensland and nne in J:\01·thern Queensland-owing to the neglcet of the Government to do anything for those fHstricts. I an1 connecting my rernarks with tho question by showing what the hon. mem· her for Noernanbv said the Gov<'rnmPnt had done for the Central district.

Mr. GREEN: I never said anything about th<· Government nog lecting those districts.

l\lr. GLEDSOX: That i" the nature of the amendment. The hon. member for Nm·­mniJhy quoted figures, giving the population of Nortl1ern (~ueensland. the population of Central Queen,>land. and the population of Southern Queensland, and he f.aid the present Go,'ernnH:nt were not doing the right thing for the people settlr·cl in the country districts. The hon. member for Tvw•1sville said that the motion moved by the hon. member for Rockhampton, if carried, would mean thP establishment of glorified municipal councils, ancl that it was a disgrace to Queensland that thf' Statp was so far back as it was. and that it w~s all due to the Government of Queens· land.

Mr. GRREN: I did n,1t blame any particular .f]ov~Jrnment.

~Ir. GLEDt-\0.::\: lt i:; quite true that the lwn. Iumnhcr did not bla1nc any particular (}OY8l'Tlll1Cl1t.

Yfr. Vowr.,:s : Y on a re out of your depth .i:lgnin.

Mr. GLEDSOJ:\: 1 was quoting the statc­nwnts made bv the hon. member for Nor­llHltl bv to sho~v >Yhat the Government had done ·for th" Contra! district.

Mr. PETERSOX: I never complained of the Coverument treatment at all.

Mr. GLKDSOl'\: On page 1686 o[ the '· Hansard'' for 1916, we tind that thc lwn. memb<•r for :::\ormanby made use of these wonb-- '

'·As a countn· mcmbC'r I must sav that [ am aLsolute(r satisfied with th<: way dH' (~overmr"'nt have treated my oleo· toratc . . . I feel sure that when WP go LPforo the 0loctors in eighteen months' tim<', the peoplP >vill bo 'atistiod with tlw ·work of this Goverruncnt."

'l.'lw hon. nwmber for X ormanby also sai.1 on that occasion-

'· The party opposite is mad<' up ot Labour rats."

Mr. l'ETERSOX: I admit that I said in 1916 that the people were satisfied with the way the Uovornmcnt treated my electorate.

Yfr. G REEX : Let us take .a vote on the question.

Mr. l:LEDS0.:\1: '!'hero are one or two other quotatiom made by the hon. member fm: J:\ormanby which I would like to give. 1 <:un sure ho11. n1cmbors opposite want t<J know all about the member they arc now sitting with. T.hoy want to know what sort of a m.em!Jpr the hon. member for Nor­lllanby is. all(] I can only show that b.v quat .. in;?; som.e of his stat01ncnts. rTho statements ,,-hich he preYiously made in this Rouse ar<' quite diff<•ront from t·hc statements which he tnad,, this afternoon. On page 2466 of " Han­sard" fm· 1917 I find that the hon. member made the following statement:-

" Since the Labour Government have been in power more money had been spent in two and a-half years in his P!ectoratp than in twenty years under the Liberal Government." ~

:\.Ir. PETERSPN: They are going to spend more money next year than ever they spent before.

Mr. GLEDSO;\f: The hon. member admits that the Government spent a lot of money in hio electorate, and he says they are going t·o epend more ne"<:t year than en'r they spent bofor<>; so how can he claim that his elee­trn·ate has hePll neglc,cted by tho Govern­ment? I gi "'' tlwse quotations to show the inconsistency of the hon. gentleman whc;n he now asl~s the House to carry a motion such '" be ha, proposed to-day: I have a shPaf of quot-ations here from sp"echcs of the hon. member for Normanby, but I am sure hou. rnembers do not want nH' to givf~ a.ll of thorn at once. '.'Ye will hav0 the othcm at another time.

Mr. Vowr,Es: \Ve want to have a vote on tlw question.

Mr. GLEDRO.:\i: Later on we will give all the quotations made by the hon. member for Normanby. ,

Mr. PETERRo;;: You said that you were against a recluctiou of wages in 1920 .

}rf r. Gled son .l

Pm posed A11u !lt/lllnil of

::\ir. llA~H: And you >'aid you would not be found dead with 'the Country party.

Mr. l'EJ'ER~OX: TherP "'"" no Country party then.

Mr. ULEDSO:'\: Tlw hun. m(•mbcr for ~l'o1vn~ville said that the rnotion \Ya~ a vro­JJosal to forn1 gloriiled lllllnicipal councils in Queensland under a unifi~ation :::.ystenl. The hon. nwmllPr hns Ilo right to reflect on rnunicipal eonncillors, bC'utuse tht'~· have clouo good ·work for Qnecns!antl, and the hou. 1Y1cluln'r ha.s 110 rlght h) :->H('el' at thmn when he talks about glorified municipal councils.

The HO.\ll': SECHET.IRY: He is the chief l'ooh BHJ\ of tlw TowllsYilk :\lunicipal Coullcil himsl'!f.

~Vlr. ULEDSO.:'\: I am ,atisficr{ that the municipal councils deal with rnauy of their problnn1s to-Jay iu a proper rnannor. _I an1 ~atisficd thtLt. tlwv deal with them m as ~atisfactory a 111ani1cr as they would be dealt with lJy the hon. member for "'ormnnby ·Or the 'hou. lnerubor for rl'O\\o:'l1SYille. These rncn dcYote their ti1ne. and <."llergy, antl ability to munieipd \\:ork, and they am "necred at in this I-Iouse bv hon. JncmbPrs .who sav that we <ll'l~ attPn;pbng to set up glorifit't1 1nunicipaJ <.:onn<:ib. \\:'e M_ay that it is " good t-hing to bnng legiSlatiOn and adn1inistration iu lut -tJ affairs to their irnrnotliato vicinity. The doscr you can bring th,,m to the' people, t h<• more chance vou ha n.-'! of their being carried out 1n a J>rope1· way all(] for the bc11cfit of the people •·onccrnf•d.

Mr. BHAXD: llo''' Jlot thn amendment say that:

J\h. (; LEDSO :\ : 'J'he a mendm<'nt does not ~"'ay that. 1 t gets no nearer the solution, .vhieh lie, i11 gettmg the Parliaments nearer to the pooplP. '1'he arnendrnent would incrc•ase the cost of governruent, and the inconsist:encv nf tlw hon. rnembcr for Korntn.ul>y "is ~howu \vhen he~ turn~ round .a.nd sa~:s ~that hl' is :in favour of a reduction nf tlw" s1Llarit>s of members of this House. The people of ihl' :\onnanby arc not going to be gulle<l by an:,· "uch statement. They judge a man by what he has done, and not by his corning here and tryrng to rnake out that he is something which he is not. I hope the runenclrne.ut ·will not be carried, because wP do 11ot want any rnorc increase in the ,('ost of govcrnnu .. •nt. \\Tp haYc quite cnou&h gove>rnrr1cnt. if not too rnuch govcl'nmcnt, 111 this country.

;\eh. HARTLEY (Fitzroy): I have to sup­l>ort the motion moved by the hon. member for Hockharnvton. but I rcg1·et that rt has no-t lwen rf:eC'ivecl :in the rnauner vdnch 1t demands as the biggc.,t subject that could <·ng<ege the attention of the people. I. think a gr<'at Hnn1bcr of people anJ pohttclalls agr<'e "·ith the principle, and it ha" been so gcLcn<lly recognised that the subdivi,cion ~~ Ou('('nsland and other States wenld be beneh­da! to t,hc whole of Australia that it cannot bo takt•n that tho niovemcnt is pri1narily a Qur<'llolu "d mov<'ment. It will be of ya hH• to Qlwcns]and if it is dj,·jded into a nu1nber of ~ta.t;<.'s-I do not ~ay bvo, or thretJ, or four; that is a question upon \vhich the best statesmen and statisticians "honld give an exvcrt opinion. I think the conferenc<e now sitting in Albury will probably ontlme a policy which will go a long way tO\Yards soh·ing tho question as to how the partition <lf Queensland and the other States should be brought about-not for the advantage of any particular State, but for thE' adyantage of

rMr, Gledson.

f'<nnUWJIII'('U/t/J rou . ...,·fitutiou.

t hP \dwJ~\ of .:\.u4ralia. ~o far a .... I can :--t'C', t:ht: anH'liCluwnt j~ a ypn· obscure anwnd­rncnt. ]t i--. t>vidPIJtlv fotu;dr·d OH thr: old­tinl{• lllO\~PnH•ut---tiw · H1oYPllH'l1t of twnnt~'­li\·(' y('Hf." ago. wlu•n ihPr(' was a kePn dusi;·p for thP divi:-<ion of Qne<'Il:-']and into thref> colouiL·~. It Sl'f'l11!" to ha.YP that idt.'a: but I <Hn uot at all ciL'at' a:-: 10 ·wlwtlu.•r the nlove_' "~antt' (,JuePlblaud divitkd i11to thrPt> ~tate.:-; <>r two Sult-C':-;. [ put tlH• lattpr construf·tion on it: and it 1~ <Ill iutt•rprPtatioH wlricll, if earri~~d ont. 1\otdd 1H' tn tlw dt.•trirllent of thP t '('lllrn 1 di-;tricr. at ill!\' ratt•. 'I'ha.t is .-;nnl,_•thing: which \re iu tliat di:-iiTitt havf>. cdways ft•nn·d l!Jight o<"cur on atTOUilt of the gu'.-;_ter ",.j!S·ln of intltH'IIl'!' of thu l'Pln·~·:;en­tation of the ~u11th iu thL' ~tatP Parliarnent. 1 du not knfJ\Y wht>tll('l' th<' hon. rnc·1nbor'."\ rt•t·ent a."i:":Ol'iatinn:··' \Ylrh hou. nten1bt'l'=-' oppo­sitt.' ha \'P IJladt.· hi:-:. opinion~ a..ki11 tr_) t-he ~outlJPJ'JJ polnt (lf viP\Y.

~1 r. BH .. \:\ 11 : \rhy do .You llot tc"t it:

:\lr. JJ..\HTLI•:Y: l d<> not know bo\\· ('an do ::;o. othPr than lJY thC' a.nJ<'lHlntent, ·hil'h sho"·:-. that he i:-i it;dined to ach-o{'ate

'dlat ihP Soudlt.'l'll lH'Old(' haY<' alwav . ..; had iu their millds-rhat is. to diYid., ~uoc;nslaud l>:v " lilt" praeticaJl.'· ano's the middk of t'ht.' eottutry, 1uaking· a . .:\'orther11 QllPPn.s-1and ;J ud ;_t ~outhPrn Qw~e11sland.

}lr. PETEH~O::.;-: That i:; nut ~o.

:\lr. HAH'J'T.I•:Y: The anH'llclmem pnn·ides for thp ornis.---iun of all \~lonlR a.ftnr ·· that,'' <t-lld till' iH:·wrtioiJ of the• follo\-Ying word.:~:~-

.. thl:-, ParlianH•nt lwrchy <"Ollsonts to th..,. ert>ahon of a lH'W ~tatP cornprisinf! the -;--'Tl'itory knnwu ns :\"orth QuupnslanJ, and a.. :Sta!(' cotnprisi11g thP territur.\­knu--..Yn a:-; l \~ntral Qw .. •enslan-d .. ,

Tbat ('ltn be J'Pa l to n1can a State corn~ ]n·i~ing thC' territory knOIYH a..; Central and :'\ort-JH,rn Q<wc•lJsland.

2\lr. PETERSOX: .:'\o.

l.\Ir. JL\llTLI<;y: I rake• th<' lwn. llivlldwr·s denial.

:J..fr. PETEH;:.;nx: Do you approY(' o£ the prt'''Pnt Loundtnies of what are known as :'\01·tlwrn. Central. and SonthPrn Queens· lnnd '!

:'vir. I-IARTLEY: :\o; I do not approve of any lJOundaric ~. J think the rwwer idea lll'P\·ailing a.rnoHgst dw people of Queens­land will Pvcnbwlty find expression in the di vi cion of Qm't•nsland into four Stah··,-not thn'•': but it will b~ a mattN for the people of QuP<.·nsland in conferen<'e to dcC'ide for t!H nl'ch-ce. I 1tn1 of opinion that Qnr>cns­land shonld Le divided into ScatPs e<.ch of \Yhich will compriso \Yithin its boundaries tl}(' great(!st eon1n1unity of interests. I 1 hink that th<• Ce-ntral \YPst and South-west of Qn<•<•nsland has a big claim for a State of its own, because it is pecnliarly nnd par­ticularly Pllg<lged in the pa,tural and grazing indnstrics.

:\h. C'UTEIDH'!.L: \\'oulc1 you lw in faYOUl' of n101'P .dccc-nn·a1isntion 1n the L:rp_-cr towns'!

:\Ir. lfAHTLEY: You do not want a poJjc;, oF de''enrrallsation if you ha.ve a policy of ;cc•paration. I do not think anyone will t!Pll\' that tlw amendment is a bad am<•Jl(!mc"nt. in th11t it brushes awav tho neC'd for th0 recognition of an Austfalian spirit. This is not a Queensland movement: it is an Austrnlian movement. It is not fo>· the benefit of QueEmsland alone that we want to <liYide this and ot.hcr Stotes into

[o ,JULY.]

~ILrl·l'f'r <li'l'<.l'. It i::; doubtful ·whether, uuder th(• Ct)rnwonwealth Con;.;titution, Queensland, 'tarding alone and fighting its own battles. r.onld eYPr gf't an;v~\vhern on thj;, question. lt ~~ <t qnPstion foe c_o~orH.•ratiou betwceu all Jll'.)jAc• who !JdicYe in the diYision of States throughout \t1'StrCJlia, and tlH.~ a1ncndment '''(Jnld {'ast aside the spjrit that i:-;. rccoo,nisod ill t.hn mot.ion that thi:'l j ::' au ..--\.ust~·alian flJ()YPJ11C11t-not llJ(•rcly a nnl'l'O\r paroc.hinl l.Ju<».·n,Jand lllOYcmcni. \Yn ask the u.ssist­:wcc• of thosP men in ~ew South Wales who br>]il'\'1' thPn~ i.., l'OOitt for another State thl'l"<". and of thosp in Somh Australia who hC'lif·\·(~ thPrP i:-: roo1n for another State thf~f''· Tlw diYi•:-..iou o[ (Jlll'l'nsland into tvvo nr 111orn :-:;tnJp..:: canuor be obtained ,,·ithout th~· t·on::;pnt ()f thn ConlnlonvH•alth Parlia­ll!I'IH, and thr•rpfore it i~ lllUdl hPttt'r that the rnntinu "hould h.: r·cuTi(•d in thP forru \\ hi(·h provid··~ i l1at QtlP<'ll~laud should be di\ id1·d iuto a l1Llllllwr nf :--;tab·-,~"·hatover nutnbr·r nwy be• ~uh~cqncrnly d('('ided ifi best. lt is nmch lll'ttet· that tht' d<'Jiland for the ('rea.tion (Jf thPse StatP..:. shotdd <'Oll1P frotn an \lJ-"\u:-tndian ( \infP1'<'1lC'(', :-:.n('h a.-; that :<t Alblll·,·. rather thau r.hat it should be a plltf•ly QnL'f'lh'<la.nd dl'tnnnd. ~n<'h a~ that out­lint><~ in rlw amPndrupnt .. \ YlT)' big: pro­pod.lnn of th(' }J('OpJc in C('lli rn! Qnet'mdand

rccogni~f' th<~ val uo of sopara-[5.30 p.n1.] tioll. Illustrations of its value

in other countrie;.:; \Yf're givpn by rlK hn11. nwrn!>eJ' fnr Rockhat:npton. Tt has lH"}Hl dt>n!OJH·;tJ·atpd pa rticnlarl~· iu th·• Unir<•d :-lhttcs ol ~-\nwriea. \vhel"e. after the forn1a.tion of nnion . .;; fie\\" ·Rtate::<. productior1 inf.ft~as.ed in practif'ally t'Y('r_v bl'auch, and J10pulatio:n udvanePd. fn no i11:-;lalH3<' that. f kno\\· of \Wl"C tJWrl' bad pffpe(, fi-om the division of a big State into two Ol' n1ore 'llHill<'l' :->tat<·~. In Qu .. .-rJ,land lately we han· not had the bad .efl't•ct of go.-crnment frorn Oil<' <'nd of !hP Stare that w.e ha{! prP· Yiou~S/Y. ~onH~ hn'nty year~ a.go thP a1nount of fi'\"PIJnP ·.ylJic:'h wa:' S(•,'l.ll'Pd fron1 Xorth and C'Pniral (~ll<'<'mland and tlw small pro­portion that \Ya~ l'xpendl'd ill those di:-'.trict~ wa~ notorion!?. Bri~banP and a good dPal of th(' ~ontlH'l'll lJOl'tion of thi~ Sta.tp \vere lmilr np at 111•· cxpPll:<<· of r.h•· Wl•tdth of prodnetion of ,2\'orth awl CPllh-al QuPens­Jand. \Yitl1 the cr0a.tion of nr,,~ Statnf' in rhc ('ent.r<· atHl in the :\orth. and po"ibl.v in rhe \YPst. that could not occJll'. lweaus<' tht· ,' woul·d lnJY( th(>il" O\nl l'<~Yl'TilH'. the \\<~'(~.hh frotu thei1· O"\YTl 1'PBOlll"<·0s. to expend wir.hi 11 t lH'i l' o'vn h•rri tori f·~. and that Hlust t•V< nrua 11· •.mrk for thP b('Jwfit of thos<' cli>­tri('t·.~ in· t lH' t:l'L•atio11 of Tll'''' "Pa1th and rhP ~(·H1PHW1Jt of a biggf'l' ]Jopnlati{)ll. I lu-tVL' nnH"h tJleaf'.u!'f' in ~uppol'ting- tlu~ lnot,ion l(l(JV('d bY thP J1on. JllPlllhl'l' fn1· Hof'k­hanqdoll ..

""lr- F()JlJ)T;~ (liorklwlllpl•nl): Th<·n· i, no doubt tha.t tht• hon. nH'rnber fo1· ).Jorlnanb:· ~ot. hi~ CUP thi~· afternoon fro~11 tlw hon. nwn1ber for Bnlin1ba, who \Otf'd against ;.;t•lf-g-nYC'rllllH'Ut for Cl'ntnd QnPL•n;;:Jalld when it. \\·a~ brought before thif:: Charnl>Pr in 1914. l l".aW tho~~,· two ho11. tlll'tllhPt's co11abnl'ating on rhe nwtiPr. Xo donbt when tlw hon. rnunber fol' Xornli.Plbv 1-.; :--PC'll on th0 divi­~loH Ii~t~ Yoting sid0 'by f'id<' with tb_P pro­~Iu( ,,~ rrJpr<:hnlJh.:; of Tnrbot ~ti'Pf't. BrisbanC', hi-- [Hl'lll0l'S in the ::"iormanbv will know t.hat he has lnr all interest in ""CPntra.! Queens­i;Jnd. (Irouical Opposition laughter.) 'rhere is nu buslnc"s intended by th hon. lllf'tnbPr

for :\ orrnanhv in thP ;_~Jll('JHhnent. It i~ mr z·tl with a· vit•\\· to ,jdp-tracking this big

Australian (luestion. I an1 prL'vared to sup­port 1.1 ny HllH:ndnH'lli to thi:-. n1otioll, or any other nJotion. whi('lt v1·iU bring lll'rn·pr to fruition :-;df-u·on'l'llllH'llt for Centnd QuPen~­land, in v. hiZ·h I !tHY<' tak('ll a ke<'ll intf'rest. for :-::ontP Y(•ar~. \\"hat i:-; rpquirPrl. i~ }pg]:--­latlon. T.ht• hon. llJPlnbcr for Xonnanby 'nlflts 10 <l<•li:l\" thi::; lnatit..'r coining beforP rlw I 'rinw :H;uii•t<'r of . \ usrra lia and tlu• Fcdt'ra1 HIJt!wrltie:-;. DoP~ any hon. Ill('Ul­

lJl't' thi11k tha.t thi~ Parlialn<'llt ha~ ·nw powPr to dlYidl' Qu~'(•rt:--luncl illto thrPP ;-)tatc~ and g·i,·t· us t'ight< ~·n ...... ClHJtor~ to ca~t "'votP~ ju tlw Ft'd('r<li ParhaiuPnt for tlw l\ortlJ­South raihvav and otitr•-r be11L'fib fur lJtwnn:-­lalld. <q . .!,·ain~t th~, ~c·nator:--. fro111 :\Pw South \Yah·~. Yictnria. :-4outh .... \u;:-;tn.tlia. alld \YPstl'l'll "\u...:.tralia ·~ Tlw hon. JJJ('Inb-('r for ~onna11bY knows q11ilt~ ,q•]l that t]u, <111lf'1Hl­IUI'Ilt of· tlw \u:--;lralian Consritutioll ]-.; uu ~\u:--;tralian qll~'-"tioll. and ll!U:'t cOllH' und0r tin• noli(·t' of rhe- Pri1n1' _}lilli~tP!' of _\u~-11'alia. That j ... \dJy l JllO\.I'd thi:-; J'(•:-.olntiou. lt dt•al.- with t '"' ·.-.holl' of _\llstralia~not onlY l~w",'ll:-.l:tJJt!. l <IIIl nnt alonP in holding· tlla·t ojJlnion. Dr. Earl(~-Pagl' and_all ihn k:u!E·~·..., of tl11· -:\Pn :--;rat(·~ moYPflH'llt In otlH'I' llill't~ ni' "\ll~tralitt knO\Y i-1utt it i~ :111 Au:-.tra­lian--widc· prublt'lll. .Ju··d as thP fnrllH'J·:-; llJll:'"'t. lJand t!!l'lli~P]vt.'s tog·etlwl' 11 !I ov0r .\ustralnt ] f thl'Y a 1'<' to !~PT .~n:r redn~cls, ~o those con­JlPetNi with 1hl:-: :\1'\\- Stat.Ps H10YPlTif'nt rru1st work unit dly: it- 1~~ nor a 1natter for n.ny oue cE~ntJ·p ;.dulH'. · T}w hon. llll'lnher fo1· X<n·Inanby !110Y('d hl~ aua·ndmPHt ·with a vie\Y t.o side­rnH·kill!.{ thi~ big-. natio11al qtH''',tion.

::\Ir. PETF.RSO)..': No. I want Sl'paration fot ('<'ntral QuePnslontl.

:VIr. FOHDE: 8inee the ho1r. nwmbe.r has b<'<'ll a,.,ociatPd with tlw produce merchants of Turbot street he wants them to control <'YnvthirH.:- tho farmer produces. j n><t as they han: don~' in tlw pa't.

The DEPCT"¥ ~PEc\K.EH: Ord<'r c I hope tht• hm1. llli'IHht'l' \\·ill <l(ldrP',..; hi~ l"f'HlaJ·k~ to thf' HlDPtlflllH\1lt..

.\lr. FOIU1E: 1 sal" the hon. !lH.'mbcr for :\orn1anbv -jf; lnsinee;'(' in :-<i.detracking thiB qtH"~tlon. · \Yln· did Jw not :-.a~· hP wafl. in faYOUl' of ail , a nH•ndnH:llt of th(• CotnHIOll­WPalth Co11stitntiou proYiding- fo1· sclf-gover.tJ­Illi'Ut for Ce-ntra! and Northern {Jnc-Pnsland ·~

~le. !'ETER~Ox: I am in fa.-om· of it:.

::\lr F..(lRDE: ll<' lrrinp forv, .ud thie. anwndrnent at tlH• belwst of thP producP nll'J:cllanh-. uf Hrisbatll'. ln onlt'r h) sidetrack dH• u1w::.tinlL Statf' jpaJousic~ h:1Ye g-reatly inqH';h,d the progTP~S of .,\~Ic.;tralia i!l the pB·~t". \\"<' 1 a11 gf"t, oYer that _1f ·wn go _In ~or <t !"PJnodr·llin<r of rlH· ~\u~tralian (ionshtutJon 1o mak(• p1·o~~i~ion for Jll'\~· Si-_atr-·. Although 1 hl' ( \)J~!l!.Iouwc ,•tit h Con~htntiOll wa~ framed \,,· t'JllinPnt men--nH'tl :-.uclt a~ Sir Bdn1un:J lla!'Ton. Sir .\lfr<'d D0nkin. and otlwrs~tt Jw, uu'liYPd its usdulm----·'· Tlw time has. cmlH' \~"h.:n1 W(' can get n hrttc-r Constituti?YL "\u:"tJ"alia hn .... nHHle great progrof'"J. during rh<· la--t tm·nr,- ypars. \Yhy not have tho l"''l ".,. '"an u·(·t .; All studcnb of coJbtitu-1 in11a 1 hl~t.or\ know that the rcfonn n1ust ('OllH' fron! tllf' top. LPt nlf' hPrl' flnotP. '-':hat ~Ir. B. H. \Vi,_,._ tt JllPJnlln of the ong-mal FPclf'ra! (jonvc:PiiotJ, had to ~ay i11 lu~ b~ok PntitlPd .. Tlw ~lnl<ing nf t!J,, AnRtrahan ('~OlllU\OlliYPalfh "--·

'' TlH• l'l'll1f'dv of the -diffieultic~ for the· Constitution is· to b<' found rather in th" PxtPnf'iou of ]fpderal powers. with Bxtcn­~ion of lncd bt)\'f'rlJl!lt'nt hy subdivision

Jh . .if'.;rde.]

?0 Propo.scrl Anwnrlme~tl of [.·\Si:lK\IBLY.J Oommon;uealth Con~t,:tution.

of tho larger States. Only by this means will be '•'Ctuctl that enlargement of the powor;; of self-government of the people of Australia which was the declared object of the Constitution."

Let us corno lJOW to a recognised authority on <~onstitutionnJ la,v-Professor liarrisou Moor0. That gcntlPman has made the follow­ing btatf'tnent: --

"The rnuliiplication of political com­mtmitit•s in Aqstralia with the plenary powers of the present Statt•s is hardly to he contemplated. On the other hand, :->nudl areas for adrninist.ratiye purpos.cs arl" eminnntly de-~irablP.~'

I quoted. in 1ny prc\ iou:-. rprna.rk- ou the motion, how many of tho States of the L!nited -Btate;-; of ..;-\ 1neri(';1 hnsc rnado rapid progres.-.. 3inco tlwy obtainPd :-;clf-g()\,.('rnrnC'nt. So would Cenlntl (~nuensland. 'I'he subdivisimt in the l.~nitNl ;';tat.,, of Anwri< a applied only to the then existin~ thirteen orig-ina.l States. the totn l are<t of vhich ''""onlY 312,710 squal'P milc.>-l<·ss thatl 1:wt of the c;tate of :\nY Sout·h \V a les-\Yith " population of 3,000,000 pcoplt>. To-day rlw:,· hLyp forty-('ight Kta.tt~;.; and OYPJ' 100.000,000 peoplP. It orif(inall:v had nothing to do 'vith tlH• Pnonnou~ terri­tories that Wt'J'e f'ub:--t•quentl.v acquired by the Natioual Gon?rnnH'llt of ~\rru·rica. bv the purcha~e of territoriu:::. fr0111 Spa.in ~ and .FratH'l'. Thos.: \\'PI'" subsequent!,· divided up nnd gi Yell self-govPrnment. ~,here are to--day fol'ty-Pight progre;:;sivu States in .. America whi<'h. during tl'n y0ar~. increased their population tenfold. That is a splendid prog;re:-:.'C,i\·P den•iopnH'llt thnt took placP becau'·O the <-liilen•nt t)tates wen~ given a ~rcat degree of :--elf-govel'Dlll<"llt.

The ox-Governor-General of Austmlia, the Right Hon. Rir Ronal<l J\Innro-Fergu,on, in a very thoughtful 'PC<·l'h which he delivered befor0 h0 c1Ppartr't1 fnJtn #\nstralla, had this to ~ay-

"' IIO\\-·cv!'r, th0 ll<'CP~:-.itv of unity wa:-; hrought hontt' to ll::i {_luring: the wa1·,' whilP pridE in tlt<' achif'Yf'IYJPDt of our national arin~·~ the l'l'C'ognition by nthcr countdcs of An:-,tra1ia':-> uationhood, all tPnd to inf'linP nwn':-- heart~ to a ('Onstitntional r0adjustm0nt of Iccal govPrninent, and Jnaybt• pr<~;-;~Urf' \Yi11 c·onH' fron1 thP inct·casing 1IC'cessi ty for devolution to <lemand mow Joccntmlieed local govern­ment, 'md also from the growing recog­nitiol, that Australia ha$ sufficiently specialised in largo and beautiful cities, and should turn her attention to

· tloveloping nnmlwr of organised conimunitiL.:. as C'entres of industry, population, and of locn.l administration."

The Labour party in Australia agrees \vith tht• ex-GoYm·ttor-Gt•u<•ral that them Bhould be a dcYolulion of a<lequate local governing· power frotn the FcdPral LcgislaturP tr; the State Leg-islatmes, and there should be> a greater 1_mmber of f?tate LcgislaturPs witb self-govermng pmv0r" 111 Queensland, and the method to g-et lhem should be ma.dc easier. I finJ that llHLilY lllt'tnhPl':-> or thr• }j\~dcrat PadianH_•nt, including Nationalist nH'l1lhPrf.i,

Country party 1nen1b.Pr,~. and cn~n Labour 1nen1ber,-, ar0 agreed that reform rnu~t corrw along the line,; adYoca ted b_v the Labour pa•·t~·- T W01lt to i'h·· Fo•rl<•l·al House of Parliament antl had n long· interview with Dr. Earlr; Page, leader of the Federal Country party. \Yho told me in a conversa­tion that he believed in the Labour party's JH'oposal fo1· an aruendn1r•nt of th0 Common-

( Mr. li'orrh.

wealth Constitution. The motion does not provide for a glorified municipal coun­cil, as was stated by the hon. member for Townsvillc, but for local Legisla­tures with adequate power for carry­ing on the gon~r:m:nent of tlH~ country in thosp areas. lep to 1902 in (~ueensland thr: PX:pl'nditul'e \\"tl~ apportjoiJC'J to Southern, Centra I, and ~ortlwrn Queensland, but for vJrrH' rPa •.rJll the praeticr_-, \YU, di.Clcontin11ed. \Vitb ""'"' diffic-ultY I haYu be<>n able to got ~otnP Jig·un);-; ~bowlllg- thu ~nnouut of rnoney :-;pent on rail·,,_ a).· {'Onstruction in the three <liYision' of Qm•ensland for thu last twenty­live yen r'. I 11 ill mke the period up to 1902, up to which Jleriut! Jigurt•s have been kept. fn th(\ ~c).utlwrn tlivision the a.mount spent was £12.857,000. ·wherpas thl' ex.pmH:liture ill tlw ( 't•ut:t·ul rlivision wa,; £3,358,000. \Vhy, the Dawson \'a !le.,- scheme decided on bv tbi., Co,··'t·nmcn"t Yvill cost £4,000,000 .. ;J.iul tlH' Northt'l"ll Bunwtt 8eherno cost m·cr £2,000,000, to say nothing of the North (",;i\St line ,<Jld other limes that the t;ovprnHJPnt :1 rl' building, bccuuse it recog­nise~ that CPntral QueC'n~laud has. been nBg­lPch•d. l'p to 1902 pr::·v]{nts GoYPI'lliDPnts had only 'i"'llt £~-1,358.000 in Ct>ntral Queumland. Front 1902 to 1910-11 t-lt<• u:')Wl!dit:ure on raii­\Y<tV ('Oll~h·twtiou in Southern QnecnRlanJ Wa;:l, gl'f;upefl '' ith i IH' expenditure in Central Qtwc·u:--.L, 11d, a ad the total l'.q1(!IHJiturt~ was approximatd_v £4,000,000.

ThP IlEt'CTY i:ll'BAKER: Onler! :\light 1 l'al! the attention of hon. member' to the faet that t.lw ratlwr loud eonversation that is goiug· 011 Tllll'l.t hn disco11certing to t~€' ~peakPl'. aud 1 tru~t that boil. Tnetnbers. 1f the~:: wish to c·onVt'l'''e. will do ~o in a. lo\vcr tnnP.

:\lr. FORIJE: The• gn'ater portion of that HlOIH'Y \Vas ~pent in Southern Quc.-ensland. £20,000.000 has hl'Pn spent in 8outhern Qnct•nsland, £5,000,000 in Central Queen"­land, aml £10.000,000 in :\ot·th Qneensland on~r a pPriod of iwt·nty-IiY<' ;.·('Ftr::-;, \Vhen Con­scrvatiYP GoY<'l'IlUlf'llts ·were in power.

The 1lEi'O'I.'Y SPEAKER: Order! I hope tlw hou. g-~·ntl<'nlan i8 going to connect his n•n1ark~ with tlH' atnendrnent.

::'.Jr. l•'ORDE: l am. I ref'ognisn that th<> hott. I!H'!llb<'l' for ~ornHlnby <t-rHl sou1e other lwn. llt<-'lnht'l'~ ou th" othPl' ':-id<" arP trying to ~illt·traek this i~f'ue.

:\'lr. PETElL:)OX: l:~on \ntnt to ~ee a ''11eeialist. :\fr. l•'ORDE: \\·,. have different railway

g·aug<'~ in difft'l'l'nt 8taJC'P. of ~\ustr.alia, and ~lifl'Pl'('nt ll!tU:hint'l'~· of p:ovcrn1nent. You _find in rno..;t ,'-.:.tatP . ...; Hl!' CotHntonwenlt.h Sav1ngs Bnnk 011 oue :-;idn of thf' :-;trerot and the Statn Having·s Bnnk on the othf'l". \Vc find gre~t l!IIIH'(·(·~:-;.at·v t'"\:fW11~l' in goYnrnment; Inaclu­JH'l':V· \Yi.th a proper remodelling- of the; Commonw(•alth Cnnstitution, the whole matter could lw H'Yi('\\·c•<l, nud WP -c:ould haYo Onf'

Govt'l·nnH'Jlt :-:itti1Ig- in Honthoru Queensland, anoth<~r Go,·prJntH:nt in Central Queensland. awl anotlwr GO\'<'l"Illnont in Northern Queens­lan<l. :") ati01nl matters e-ould then be left to the :\ationn I Parliament; that would tPnd to PToute1· deYelopmcnt. 'r.he great natural ,~~som'c<'s of Central Queensland \\·ould lw dcwdoped, and we would be able. to ,.,tablish unr secondary industries. We are producing this year nearly £500,000 worth of coi.ton. \Ve could have cotton ~pinning tnil1s) wr'aving mills, and woollen mills. also the Daw'>Oil Valley water oon­servation and irrigation scheme and the Northern Bnrnett schemes, with big cotton

Proposed hru 11.rlment uf L6 JULY.] C'onHnonu}caltf, r·o,,.,..,·f,:tution. 7l

dovgloprrwntal scheme,. With all these established we would bP a much more import.ant district. If the hon. member for Norn1a.nby \Vould only ar-mi~t in havillg tlw (connnonwoalth Constitution remodelled. Central Queensland would come into her own and be probably thP riehc·.t State in the Commonw<'alth.

lllr. COLLTNS (!!uwu11: Tl!io ;, on" o:· tlw bigg;e':di questions that, i~ likel:v to coill~' before the people .,r Quot'noland. \Y0 boli<'YL' that tlH~ Conncon\\·(~altli Constitution wa11ts rernodelling. As Dne wbo ha~; lived in Queensland for nearly forty years, I believe that (,.)nc0nsland would have made greater progress .if we had had thwe ParliamPnts instead of on0.

0PPOSTTJOX i.\IoiBEHS: E<)al·, hear ;

:\lr. COLLINS : l am not hound down to thmo Parli>tmcnts in ciueenslnnd. Having travelled over n good deal of Qu<'Ol"land, I .am satisuerl that, if ever the Gulf country. which was mentioned by the hon. mt'mbr\1' for Burke, is going to be devr·lopcd, it will be <lm·cloped by c1·eating that part of the State into u sepn.rn.te province or a. 8Cparato State.

Mr S!ZER: \Yhv not make the t·lectorate -ot Bo\\'t•n into a :::;~paratc Sta.te '!

1'11r. COLLI:'-JS: \Vhun one eonsitlcrs that ·the hon. member for Nnndah <mly reprPsents " YCl')' small portcion of Queensland, and the h011. 1nmnber for Bowcn rPp1·escnts an a.rea nearly the size of Belgium. perhaps there would not bo anythillf-: wrong in err-ating the BoWL'll electorate into a province. But I arn not lwru to u.dvocatn that thn Bow<>n elect<J­rate slwuld lw created a province. I am here to support thP bon. rm,nber for Rockhamp­ton, who, it may be said, is ono of the rising hopr <of thi·· young Commonwealth. (Laugh­ter.) It is all vPrJ ,,v<~ll for hon. g·Pntlt~nH~n to laugh. 'rho hnn. lilPmber for Hockhempton is far more' able> io dr·<tl with this particular .qu{•stion than lJr. Eade Pagt>. ·,yho pose~ H . ..,

<'t big- authorit~- on this qnPstio11. :\1r. KI!>:G: That is not ,,:-·iug I:meh fm·

him. .:\'fr. C:OLLI~S: Dr. Earlu Page j, one of

thc l0a.ders of thought in thi,; Conunonw<'alth. f BttPndPcl a 1110Pting addn:s-,cd hy J1ln1 in Bo,vr·n, and. aftPr IistPning for over an hour to tbi:-; pnsRihle PritnP l\1 inlst:·e of HlP Coln­Inon\vealth~all }Qadnr::; of pal'tit-:-:. aro po~::;ibk Prinw ~Iinif;h'r~-r told lrl""': friends that it was. a. pity that WP ('Ould not i-Ht,\"P a l'Pputition of t.hP Lisbon ,.,u·thqu,•.k<> to swallow up thP who]p of us. That was th<: opinion I formed ·of J)r. Ea.rlt~ Pag;(~. I arn not ~u,yjn~ anything against thu policy hr1 was outliniug, but he \Vas not ahlP to outlint• n policy in connection ·w·ith this U}'('Dtiou of n£~W Stat"•s in a manner in which it has be0n ontlinP<] this d.fternoon by th0 hon. nwmber for Hockhampton. It is quit · trne that D1·. Barle PugP. the lcadP.r of this ~{'W Statp nlOVC'tllPnt, has g·ot a. powerful Pn' <e behind him, and, if our friends opposite• had not got the Press behind t.hem, <tnd the JWopl.e of QucL·Hiand and thP Commonwealth could lisi·l'll to them as we listNt to tht>m, they would realisn the small an1our1t .of ability they pnt!~e~~ on t.he Opposi­tion side of tiH• 1-Ion~E:.

At 5.50 p.HL. The SPEAKER n•sumPd the ehail".

Mr. COLLINS: ~\s the hon. m<'mber for Rockhampton said, !'his qn, .. ;tion is nothing­new. Y ea.r::;; ago there \Vas a strong RP-para­tion movenwnr in North (,)upenslnnd, and that

HJovt·nH·nt onlv died with thP adyeut of a :--troHg- Labour: party in this I-lousc. VVe all know who ''"''"" tho l<'aders of the movement at th><t time. Mr. Hume Black, Sir Robert Philp, and ruany others advocated that North Qu•'<'llsLcnd "houlrl bP er0atcd a separatr' Stat •, hc•r·ausC' at that tinH3 they ·were strong advocates of black labour, and they thought thnt. if j],p~- got North Queensland made into a st•parutP State'. they would be enabled to gl't a big inllux of coloured labour in the Xorth. TirnPs haYe chmtg·l~d ~incc then. WP~ han' 'O<'ll tho Commonwealth c,tab!ished. and ~u_rph· no ollP who has traYelled from, herP to Pr:nh \>·ould a rguo thnt thi:-; groat ConFnon­wPalth <an lw developed \\'ith six ~tato Govt'l'IlHlP1If:-;. \\"·1' bp]jpyr•. tht•roforc•. in

n•uwd( Jling thP (~on-::tit.utiou to providB for JHIIl"l' ;-)raft,, or ProYinue:-;, ot· ,,-hatovor the pt'llpln uf _,_\u:-~tralia may th•eiJn. ·with .a. Yil'Vi' l·O it;l\·ing· :-t bpt1Pl' S:)_,ih'nl of g'O\"{'I'l1ll1ellt.

l hold in mv hand a book which it would lH' v,:j"p for 'prt.''-\PIJt-day politjelaus to l'Cad . !wc1u:-.r· it ,..,·as 'Writtf•n b~- a Qunenslander U<JtnP·d )\lh.-'rt I£. Church. at }H't)scnt oceupying a po..,it ion in ow~ of our StaJP school~. 'rhC?­book is "ntitled "AdYaneP Au,tra.lia: The \Va:v to ::\ationhood."

_\t 5.53 p.m ..

:\lr. YO\\-LES ,aid: l'nrln ~lnndinl': OrdPr :\," 140. I tnm-l'

.. Thnt thP qnc•stioJJ lw no\\. put."

Tlw ~I'J;;AKER: :Yir. Collins;

:\! r. ('() L Lf:\S: I am surpri>,ed a.t the lPadt>r 1d. thP Oppositio11 tuki11u: adntHtage of th~ ;;tand]r;g· { )rders i11 ordPr to l'ltlflt> discussion o11 an· intj:ortant quf'Rtion such as this. (LaH!.!)ltPI',) Thi-..; question js oeeupying thP att{•ntion of ~i:\.ty dPlegatt•;-; frnn1 different JHirr,~ of tlw C'mu{nonWt'l,tlth \'V'ho are nH:eting <Jt Alh!!r\- ar th. jll't'SOJlt tinw. r anl ~ur­]JJ'i~~·d a.t.' th1• attitttdt• tak0u np by thP hon. llH'lllhPr fo1· To\\ nsvill(•. h<'"1HI~~t· hP ;:;ecrn~ to bt• out of touch \Vith tlH• g'(~Htll~H1an \vho l'l'IH'f',,t'llt::> th._, llt>rhnrt. or InisrPpresents it. iu the Fr'clnal House at the JH''"''nt time. l ,uppos<' he is we!! awa.re that on the 13th Sut't"mh<>r. 1910. :\Jr. lhmfonl introduced a ni,'a"nJ·p llJto th<' {'onnnoln'1<1 alth I)nrliamcnt. ·dNdinu: \Yith this qut!~tion ·: ':rhat('·vcr rnay Ln '·aid for o1· a~ain:--t J.lr. Ha1nfnrd. he call dn in1, to , Ollll'. PxtPnt. that he ~:..; thn father of the unification lliOVl'llll.'lll in Australia. \Yhil" T do >l!Jt ag'l'<'l' with him politically, I <lill willing 1o giYP hitn that <'l'Pdit_. inas1nuch as 1 ha.-,, hPre a. <"0(1<' of the Hlll that h" int;·odu.ef'd into tlw JTo~l ... <' of HPpl.'P~f'ntnJivcs.. ~inL'u thPn (Jlll' part~·. whicl1 i~ i"h<• prog-n·~siYt> party-.. --

),fr. ,f. ) [. C. Rom.RT~: Which party is that.,

:\Jr. t'OLLf::\S: The Labour P'tl'ty, which i' the progre"siye party. They hnsc adopted to somo extent the principle which was out­lined in Mr. Bamford'e Bill of 1910. When ouo t~ kP.s into consideration the size of QuC'Pnslund, and when I realise, a\~ the repre­sPniativP of a Xorthcrn constituencv, that 1 am nPare1· to Sydney ut the preo'Pnt moment in a direct lim• than I am to rnv own electo­rate, f realise that there m~st bee SOmt" diffPrmlt forrn of g-overnlTIPnt if this country i~ to <lPYPlop as it should develop. I am >atisfccd-I do not know whether the hon. member for Townsvillo will agrPe with thi" statenwnt or not-I am satisfied that, had sepamtion been brought about in tho early 90'.'· ~orth 9nepnsbnd would have had

Jlr. Collhn.]

50,UOU tu 100.000 nwn· !"'"Plc 111 1t than it ha:-' at tlH' Jll't'Sl'llt tinu.·.

)lr. (;REE:-<: Ht•:u·. !war:

:\lr. ('()LLI.:\:-\: \\'itl1 ih ,p]cwlid n•sourcc> ----\\ !ti<'h j ;un plt•a:--t>d to ~ay thi~ GoYPrnmcnt haw· don<' a e\"l'L':tl deal tu <kvc·lop-if then· hud l:H~f'tl :·lf~goU'Ltllllf'l11". with ihP scat of g·uY<:l'Iltlll'll! at. Sa\, (

1lHI.l't<'l'S rflOWC'l'S-Which

lw~ a VPI',Y good {·linwtP-or in ::>ontP othe1· pa.rt ot: t h(' ~ortlt, uot onl:v \voukl '\VP have had larg(•f <·itiP."'. bnt· Wt' \vould ha Ye had rnorP --t•h lf'llH~llt aud hPttt•l' unHlitions than W<' hay(' at thn pt't"•Pllt- tiltiP. It i" no n~c· thf' hou. lltt'ndH'r fo1· .:\ol'tl\ttlll)\ thinkinL>,· that, bY <·aJT,Vi~l.!.t hl:-.. ~l_1Jl(>l1dJHPin. W(' an• goir.1g t~) ~etth' thi:- (111r:o:rlou. Thi;-; t.flH~stioJt call only be >dtlPd on th<' line•> indicawc1 in tlw rnotion nioYPd lJv the holl. nH•mbeJ.· fol' Rock­harnpton. Thi:-~ i~ a nHtlter that mu~-.t be dc·ait wilh b·.· iht· Fcch•ral Parliament. The• "Teatf'J· Parli.an't'llt eontrul~ to a. ltn~,-~, e·acnt ~hP 1~~·•:--f·l' P: rli~llll('Ht: ~~~i·~J tltt' li\·d~~;·a ( Par~ lianwnt i." rht• Padi;nnc•ut that \\'ill have to tlt•al with thi~.; big· qnP··tion, lH'l'a!l-.:(•, after all. it j .... ;.1 hig. qtH•::-;tion, a11d a qnp:-;tion that l't>quln"· ail tlw lnte1ll.u,-,.·ru·(• 1\'(~ eau gi\P tn it. \Y(• all kn~n~ that rnany Hll'll in QtH't>Jblan(1 i11 tht• pu< lw' t' ontliut>d ~wlwnH'." for thP dirisioll of thi-... Stntt•. I 1'PdiCHliH•r rPudlng :-;onw yPn '"" ;1go 1rith a g-r;~at. -dPal pf inh'rest Rir Satnw•l \Yalk('l' GI·iflith'~ ~lH'Pch on t1Ji:-: question.. :\ll'II lik(• tht· Lion. ,) ohJI .\laero:--:-:an and otht'r~ in th<_• <2ul'eH!"land ParlianH•nt at that tinH• \H'n' ~trong ~eparatlonist•s. I just g;nt up to lt'l it h<• known that I ftlll

110t in ac('ol'd \\ith rht• anwndnH'l11 JIIOYl'<l l)\ thP hon. ln<'lllhPr fo)' :'\oi'Jtlt'lll)\·, and tlulr l ;uu ~ILlJlHJrtiug the· tnotion n1~n('d b.,. 1hL' hon. mPmlH'i' fur Roekhautpton.

.\Lr. \YC'\:O'l'c\.:\LE"'{ ((!11,' ntun): l 'hould like iu S(l,V, in thP Jir"t place. that l ant t'ather ~OJTV for the con:-.titutional kno\YlL•clQ'P of the hon. ·llH'Jtibc·l·~ \vho n1ovcd and ~econd~;d thP Hlllf'-IHlntrlJt. Cf'rtninly, if the.v i:ll'L' going to be h•<.ul<·r~ in rlw ~Pparat1on ntovPment. and do an~'thing tn bring· .about Sl'paratioli, o1· bP prourinent in thL' nlO\T(•!nPnt ·when :;epat·a.tiou dop:-; tuk(• plal'L'. tht~y will lun:e- to he nuwh hPttPr pu:--ted 011. l'Ollstitntional law tha.n rlH•.v <ne at thP prP~Pnt tinH', becansc. tmdoi!lltt·<lh. \rithont tl><· a.t11hol'ih of thl' Vf\.{lt•r;d p,; rllauH'l:t nothiu~ ean bt;· clotH' ill thi:-> tna.ttPr. To pa:-<." a.n antt'lHlment thro\\ ~ lllg the l't'-.poll~ibillty o11 thi" PurlianH•nt i:-­ultNl;·· f11tiit•. It i, quit.· "'"ident that those hon. fiH'lll hc·r...: ita,.<, I tot y_·i \-Pn .the question that ('OtL·,i-dt·r;dion which it dt•lutt.rHb ~tlH.l \\·hich it lli'Pd~ lt it is t'\'f'l' to ~\l('(',ePd. rrlll' tplt'SiiOtJ or :-'t']l<ll'<Jtiol! ]:-; by l\0 lJIPHTin a 11.('\\'

qw•:·:tion For tilt• pa~t [onv \'Par:-- it ha~ b8c•11 pt•riodi(·atly n·Yiu·d it~ lJll<'(.~Jl~lancl ntHl di:-;­,·tt~:-lt'fl .;J!.'(nilt and agai11, a11d I \\t'll l'(•fllt~IIl­hPl' \\ ll{'n it \\·a:-- di:--:~u:--:--t'd in ::\orth Queen~­ln.IJd :--ol!H' 1hirtY ., '<ll·,. a12:o. To\\"11:-<vill(• ha{l prndif·;dly nwrl;, 1~p if:-: 111i1"J thnt it \\'<l~ tu ht· tiJP t'<l]titHl of tlJ,, Tit'\\. St.a.t<• antl black lahou~· '.l.a no:. to h(' ban-i~·ilv_·d from ).;ort.h (_)tH'<'tt~!ancl. and v··ltt~!l tlit• pPople nf Town~­Yillt· tli(JU,V:!Jt t!J,:t tht>ll' COl'!\{'~· ;t\Jot.llll'llt:'- WCJ't>

. .!.!·oin~ to hL· l'Tiil<lll("t'd i•t priC'l'. ~Pparatiull in To·,·\.JJ~\'iliP \\'a-.. !'l'allv a lirt· lllOYc•m(•ut. <Lnd <I ~-lHHl dt·;t! .uf t';h'rg'\ ancl IlltJilt'V wa:-­t''\._P('lldPd ill thar dil'('t.Ji(.lll; bnt it, i...; ]nst as well known 1 hat ont, .. idc'- Town:3Yillc practi~ .. all~· tl1<' wholt- of ""'·th Qncensland \ya>; again:::t tlu~ HJoH~ltl('ll1. .;\ t any rate, Chartel'R Towpr:-; wcH as::rnin~t it, and that "\Yas ono of tlw town:-; t1wt lH•lp('d t·o ~quash the rnove­nlt'nt "t that tinH'. Tlw hon. m Pm her for To\Vrt;-,Yilll' ~aid that. if ""('fHt.ratinn 1wd tnken

[Mr. Co1N11s.

place. thr>J't' \\ ould ha \'P bt·~·n a gTear .Jifl'er­Pll('(' iu thP Gulf enuHtry to-da.\, as puinteci out bY the• hon. m<•mber for Bnri<P. \VhaL pl'l'\"t•iJtr•d th(• UnH countr~· fron1 bt-illg dPvol­oppd a:-- it oug-hJ to haYe hll'ri was the fact that OlH' of thP Pn•ntipn.; of QuePnsland "\va:-:. 111erubPr for TtnYJt:--\·illt', and \\·a:-- interested in Town~\·i\1('. and P\-l"'l'~;thin.e; ''a~ C'Pntralised in t1utt eitv. ~\nd ,yhat has bPPIJ done in rPgard to 'i'o\\·11~\ illr· ha:--. bcl'n done in other t'H:--.P-...

.lt 7 p.m. t/11' 1-fousr, in ar·cnr;lancc 'With , ... ; 1 ,(.-:.t:on,,f. ()rr/.'1'. procrtd(rl wit!t. Gove'r"'n-"' ( nt {}lr.-,i/1 i :-;s.

HE\" 1 "10:'\ OF STA:\Dl:\C ORDERS.

Th" l'!U•::\JII<:H: (lion. E. G. Tl'""dur<'. ({'/!ilftlf/Uf i: l lJPg to lllOYt'~

''Thai t.ht• Speakn do now lease th<> t"hair, and that tlw Hc,us<· l't'~olvt•s itsf'lf into a Cornrni\'t('t' of tl!t• \\'hole to con­~-idPr tht' pl'Oj)OS(•d HDlt'HdnH)lltB a.nd addit1on~ 1 o rh<> Standing· Order, a~ ,·c-cnn1nH'tHled ll\' tlH• Standin~~· Order'"" (\nllrnitt:(•." ·

tJl!P~tion llllt' <111!.1 pa:--.;;C'd.

( \nDllT'l'El·:.

(.lfr. Jtinr,tn, /Jri.~lHuu, lfl tlu t'huir.}

TL<' PRKYIIElt: 1 lwg to moYe-•· That tb' anl<'nchnent IT! Standing·

()rd0r ~o. 1--: I)rof'lamatirnt to be read' ---bP agreed to."

:\h. VO\YLE~ lfialhyl: Thi'. \vith many of the otllel' ,1n1P11d.nH~nts. i:". nH•rely conse­' 1uent on the :tltPi"t•tl conditione of Parlia­mpnt. am] for that n•ason l clo not propose to take nny ('':eelltion to thcn1.

(Jne"'tillll pnt and pa~scd.

The PRE;I,IlER: I beg to rnon'-.. Th:tl Hu],., of l'racticP 2\ios. 1 and Z

lw omitted, aJJd tlw following new Rule oi Practice be in~<_·rhxl in liPu thereof:­

Jfl m1Ht's awoit Commi,sioners ap­

JWintr r/ for tlu OJU ninrt of Parlia­lllt>nf unrl tlu ('ommi.~.-:.ion i.'i" r"acl."

l.)w•:--tion pnt and pa:-scd.

Tlw l'HKYilEH: I ht'fi to rnoY()-

·• That th(• an1Pnc1rucnt to Rult~ of Prat·tlc·(' .:\o. 3.--· ('ommi.-..:.,-,ioJir r.-..:. for s/flt .-.uinrt 111 ( Ju lu rs ··-lw a.grt'C'd to."

Quc:;:.tion .lHtt and pas~Ptl.

Tht• 1'REl\HER: l beg to move-" That ilw amPndnwnt to Standing

Order :\'o. 2-' ll"rits for (I' nrral elec­tion '--omitt-ing the word". ·of the As­HPnlblv' ~U!Hl • the Clerk · and i n~erting the· \\:ord • l!illl · bt> agTced to.~'

Qw•stion r•ut and passetl.

Tl1t' PHL<::\IIETI: 1 b0g to llJClvc-

.. That Rules of Pmdic·t• .:\o>. 6 and 7 "11cl !"I anding Orders .:\os. 7 and 8 ]H• •nnitlc•tl, ami the following new Standing· Order b<) inserted in lieu t 1 n'l"Pof:~

.·\. member uf the GoYC'rnment shall infonn tiH' House at what time the (;overnor \\'ill bo p!f,ased to receive the House for the purpose of present­in'.! l\lr. SpC'akcr to Hi_s Excellency" and the sittinf; of the House shall oo snspcnded vnti\ that time.

lti JULY.] l?(:oOoll of .'·-:to.ndiny f)rrfrr·"·.

::\Ir. Speakt,r. with the House, shall prc"'ent hirn~elf to t.he Governor, and shall report to the House his presenta­tion to Hi> ExcPllency.

(Comrnoll\Yealth Sta.nding Orders 12 and 13.)"

Question pnt and pas'!'d. The PREMIER : l beg· to rnoYc-

" rrhat. the UlllOUcln10ilts to Standing Order Ko. 9-' T'a{'((nC?/ in office of Speal.:cr '-Le agreed to.'"

Qun~tinn put and passed.

ThP PRE:\IIEH : l beg to moYc-.. That H11 k of l'racti<:P Ko. 8-

1-fou.>:.f otf1 wt.~ (/or" rnrJr ut Oouncil t /h,l m l11 r ·_-bP <nnittcd.''

~uP:..;rion put a ttd pa~:3C'<..-i.

Th· l'RK\Hi•;[{: I beg t" muYe-

" 'r!Htt thc nnwJHlmcnb to Rule of t· .. ·ur.~ic-~ _ro. 9- '\.;,u,J:·rr n JIOrts Sprt·c!t'

--bt: a~.;t·pr:d to.''

Que•o!ion put ancl paso<ed.

The• PHE~viiF:Jl: 1 beg to rnoYc--

.. rrhat thl' an1endnwrn-; to ~tarhling Order C'\o. 16-' .trlr/.rr.,.. 111 l!··rJ/y tu SpGech ·--be agreed to."

Questiou }Jllt auJ lJaHsOd. 'I'hP PREMIER: I lwg to move--

" 'I' hat the following new Standing ( Jrder-· /!e/;,;tr· on .tddrtss in Reply'­to foll<nY Standing Order ).io. 16. be' agreed to.

"DEBATE OX ADDRESS IN REPLY. Debate on the Address in Reply,

together ·with auy anlP.nchnent thereon. sha Il bP limited to four full sitting days. e:<edusive of the day upon which it. is mo1·cd mHl seconded, the debate on each of ~ueh day;:; tcnniuating at 10.30 o'clock p.m. If a speech bo not o:onclud<'d at 10.30 o'clock p.m., it shall he within the discretion of lYlr. Speaker to permit the member speaking to <:ornpld<· hi.s speech. notwithstanding thaL the hour of 10.30 o'clock p.m. has arrived.

At 10.30 o'clock p.m. on the last of l]w days allotted. Mr. Speaker shall put forthwith the qtwstion for tlw adoption of the AddroSk, together with ~uch arncndment or amendments, if any, as nwy have been n1ovod upon it, to be decidocl without any further amendment or debate:

Provided that, on any of the days ,o allotted. formal business. the pre­liminary stages of Bills, or the asking and all:-:\YPl'ing of qnestiou~ n1ay be tnk.'ll up to 4.30 lUll. Aftm· 10.30 p.m. qthc•r bn~1uc:-:;-; nwy bn JH'Occc·rled with as u~ual:

ProvidPrl furthr·r that until the .\ddre'-'s in Hepl:'i is disposed of no priYate Lu-·inc~s ::shnll intervene. Bu~iues~ undt~r cousideration at 4.30

n.!IL on allY of snch Hllotted day.­shall stand '" an Orde1· of the Dav for tlw nc,;:t sitting of the House, unless disposed of after 10.30 p.m. ~othing iu the foregoing· provisions

shall he construed to prevent the inter­··eption of the debate on the Address !u Reply by th.-, passage o£ a Tem­porary l:lupply Bill, proYided alway" that the time as above allotted for the •·onsideration of the Address in Reply ohall in !IO ~use be curtailed.''

r:r·ht>l't' umy lJt~ n difl'C'rent<• of opiniou a:-. to tl11• aclvi~·ability of adopting- thi:-) nPw Stand­ing Order. "\vhj('h was ~nbrnith'd at tht·· 11\Pf'tlug· of thP ~tandiiifr Ordpr-; C:onnnittcw tlw other night. at >vhich tlwrP wa" a full at:tPndancp of all members of thP eommittu<>. It is a<h-ic-ablc, l think. to allow the Housc in cad1 ;\-'Par io proc(~cd a~ early a~ possiblt> with th<· real bu>ine" of the "'"'ion. IYP l'<'tognl~L\ of cotu:-;e, that it i:-; au inYiolable 1·igh1 that hou. nH~nlbc•r:; lwYo to discu~s g-riPvancf's or bring fonvard au.\· n1atter tho,v d<•sin• to discuss in tlw Pa dy part of the ~( y..;io11. \dH'n the opporhntity to do that is litk<'ll nn tlw rlt·bat.' ou th<· AddJ·ps·; in Hupl,v . <ll!<' would think that allmving four fnll davs nftc•r tlw <!a.•: on which the Acldrees in H(~ply i~ IUOYPd vl:llld seconded \YOUld giv~:-· <lntplP opportn11ity for all ll!l'lnber:-- on 0ach :--idt' to addr('•.;; thP 1-lou~p 011 ~ubj(•ct...;; which fit'{' u:-;nnll\· dit'<'ll"':':('d on tlH' ..:-\ddre;..;o:; ir1 Ht•ply. In. :-.oHH' t•a;.;e:-; it i~ eon~id0rf'd. if not nrtualh- <l wn...;;tp of rinH'. at auv ratf' that tlH'l'l' ·i~ a consid(~r<.J bl1• an10u;1t of tin1P takPll lljl iu di~('llS~j ll§:i' lHl]'{'J:v fnl'lllrtl qup::,­t ion on tlw .-\ddrr"s in Heply. [<'or thal l't'H:"oll I tl1ink lt i~ d<•"irahlt• that y;(' ~honld g('t tu lhl' n':-d bu-.,ilH of tilt· ~"~'~~ion .a:-: ."'OOIJ H:-- po:->H-ihlt•. nud li:Jt allo\Y !ton. riiPlllht't';-:

to indiilg-P i11 a full-drP:-:~ dr'lHltP o11 the· topi('..; (Jf tlu• day under the 111otiou for thP adoption of tlit_' .r\ddi'P"S jll Ht·p])-. At t'h<• .-.nniP t.inH~. tlu• (;o\ f'fllll!: llt ha \'t· no dt'-,il'l' to lwrkf' {li-.C'Il~~jOll.

Hon. W. H. DARXJ": Thio StalHliug Order j ... again:-;r that sratPniL~nt. at .an~v rnJn. You an' uuly allowit1p: :-:-:t•Yt'lltP('tJ ruinnte~ for each HH'llllll'l'.

'flu• l'HEi\1 [[<;I{: lJo nil 111Pll1ll<'l'>' opPak 011 thP Addn•:-:,., in Hepl~· '!

Hu!l. \Y. 11. B.\H:>;E,;: 1\earh· all. 'l'lw bn"'iliP~'"' of tlu• <·ountr~· will soo.n lw :-:o run that :-:tH1H' hon. JnPnd>Pl':-.o \Yill not lJf' nhk to 'I"'"]; at all.

Th" l'RE1\1lER: It is thP desire of the (; oYcrnn1C>nt to ge1J to the busine;.:s of the ( onnh,\. and not to indulge- iu an unrea ,on­ably long- ddlatc on the Adchess in Reply.

Hon. \Y. H. BARNES: You >Yant to avoid a di~cl!"'"ion of yonr rnisdc0d-... during: thf' r{~C{'SS.

Tb" PREMIER: vV" do not desire to l)urk<· di~(·nr.~ion on 'vhat the ho11. gentleman call~ Olll' ntlsdt~('(lf-: nor do we wish to take a\ray any righ1s of ho11. 1ncmbers to address. 1 h<' ] full'<' Ol' Commitct<-<'. l:ndor our Stand­in~,~ ()rdt•r.~ hon. rn('n1Uers can addrc•ss the I! ou-.p 011 gl'it.•Ya JH'P~ ou thf> Address in Ht>ply. on tlw F'il!auc1al ~hliPnient, on ('('11:-iUI'(' rnotion~. on Supply Bills. aud also on tlw 1110tio:t ilu.lt tlu· Spt.•ak<'t· J('aYe ihr­ehn ir.

:\.-11'. YoWLI _\ llicp ch~IIH'f' \Y{' haY~~ got. r "\-nu ,,·i11 niO\"P--'· Thnt thP <jlH':.::hou he now put."

ThP l'RE:\lJ!<;H: Last n·ar \Oil took th" opportunity of movi n_e; t\\:o <'(~I;~nre rnotiond ~·nnr::<.elf.

:\fr. T. H. }loBEHTS: \\·hen the Labour ]H'l't·· '.\,(']'(' ill O!JllO.-:ition th{~~· lt"'t~d h) IJJ()VI~

t"\YO i il a. \YPCk.

ThP PREl\IJE_H : TlwrP wa:-:: no ··gag " on the c('Jl~lll'{' nwtionf' la~t yPHl'.

::\Ir. SIZEH: }Iow n1any tirnr>s ]n!'-t H''·A ... ioi" did yon u~P the "gag''?

}fr. -y.-)WJY~: Fort;·-fi\·e t1nH·~.

Hon. R. (;_ Thuu!r;N.J

Re?Ji.-;ion r~f ~~·taruli ny Ordt.ts. [li ,JULY.] Revision of Strmd."nu Otder-'··

Tlw PREMIER: W0 had to use the ·'gag-., last ~-ear bee<tuse of the tactics of the Opposition. But, no rnattE'r how many times we used it, WP did not make such a ruthh•ss use of it a; the Denham Adminis­tration did. (Opposition dissent.) A lot of hon. JnPrnlwrs ·who are ra.ising n chorus of inhn·jef'tions wore not here 'vhcu the Don­hanr ..:\drninistration was in vower; but I can assure th<'m that what I say is true. l\;ft·. De:nhnlll Inadn a, nlof;t rni:hh~B-~ usP of the ·· u.·ng·.'' 1 thought hon. l!lt'tllhPI'~ <·anH'

into this ChambPi' to gct on vvith public hw:::-int'~':. and Y.'c~ ut·n faced this session with a. pnrn1y < on:,tructive bnsinosslike pro­:),Tananc, and lt is th(~ dc~si:!·c of brJn. ruem­itC'r ~ oppo~it:P to -:-:h-tYO of-f t.hP considPration cf that progrannnt•.

~'h·. ''OWJ.E~: \Y'{~ ll<.Jvc• not been h:-re a \VCf'k. yf•t.

Tlw l'REliiiEH.: Tlw hon. gentleman sai<l la.<t llight. thut wo W<'re meeting too f-~arly. If rlw l:on. guntlen1<111 w·ishes to dis­cuss CoYernrrtPnt HH'asnrcs. \n) :-;hall be hc'l'e for tlw lll'Xt few Years and \Yf' will trv to :~ctmnuwdat{• hinL" (Laughh:r.) ·

:\Ir. VC!vVLES i7Julh.l;): Tbi, ;, "Jlt'ning np a ver.v big- fi<>ld for a.rgument. This a1tel'ation is going tn dPpriYo hou. 1netnbers of C'Prtain priYil('g·p~ ·which thPy hav0 IID\-Y aos a nJattt'r of rig;l11 -ont~ of thP very few pT'ivi]ClgPs which thP.V c:an in:-;i~t on__::_since 1910. vdH'll "''' last revised the Standing Ordt~rs. Pn·,-iou:--- to that evc·r,· rnPlnbcr of this .As::;crnbl:- was Pntitl<'d, ar;· a rnaUer of right. to sp<lak Oll thP debate on th" Ad­dress in R,eply. ,'rHJ could Hot lJC' ··g-agg-ed." Jn 1910 thc•r<: \YH·, a tinn~ limit of nnP hnuF fixPd for l1is spPPl'h.

lion. \\". lh~HTR.\M: \\'p du llot pl'O]IO"' to ''gag., him bcl'P.

l\!Ir. \TOVVLES: That \V<lfl. one OC'Casiou on which he could uot he '· gng-g<'d ''; h" could den1and hifi rig.hts. 1 wt•H rent0nlhPr when the last Standing Ordero vnm· introduced and opccches wPre de]iycred hy thP present Secretary £01· Public Lands, hv tlw pn•sent Jlr0micr, and by the prrc.:Pnt ·hon. !ttf-'rnher for South Brislnm<·. :Mr. Ferricks.

The PRF:1HE!l : You look up those spcechns and you will bG cnnsidNably 0diiied.

:\11-. YOvVLES: I have lookc>d them up, and I arn Y('l'.Y t'dlfit·d. 1 n•nH'Jnlwr tlw SJlL'PCh

nuule by tlH' prP 0 t'llt }lOll. lHPrnbcr for Bowen on th<Jt oeea~iotJ. 1 f (' talkt•d ab-out thf' \YaY

our forefathr·l':) lw d hl !ight fol' t 1w tib{'rti€~ the,· hnd wou. Hll(! tlH· way. blood had bncn sh('d iu order to ~~·ain our }ll'C'~Pnt priYilc'g<'s. Ht! oh_it~ctPd to ~Hl.Y <·urhtllnlP"1lt of hi:;.; rig-ht~ v:lwn ht' wrr~ in oppo:-o.itlo!J. EYPr,\· onP of tho:-:e hnn. nH'rnbPJ'~J spoke in the same strain on t-hut oc('a~ion. TlH~V \Yant<~d. to f~ee that their privileges were, prot<'ctwl. Yet we find. to-da~· f hat J-lwso privikgt"·' arc being further fiklwd a.\vav. In t\\clvc months the presPnt GovcrnmPJ.Jt will he tlw ouffercrs fr·orn thcf-'r~ Standing OrdPr . ..:. berause we ~haH h<e m·or ou the GovPrnment benches by then. <!lHl tlte.v will he in opposition. So T an1 protecting- their interests and the interests nf fnturo Oppo.-;ifions by endeavouring to ..:c0 t.lJat ou1· privi1egcs ar0 not taken aw·ay from m It is all vt>rv well for the Premier to "'t:V that our obj cct in coming here is to do bnsiness. \Vhcn the Standing Orders were under comidcration in 1910 the very ~ubje< h; that "·e aro dealing· with to-night took six da.ys to discuss. aud the " gag " was not put on them at all. Wt• are told

fHon. E. G. Theodor~.

that. we· have~ eprtain lJOWP.l'" and CPt'tain

privi1egc~ in thi~ 1-foust~.

At 7.15 p.m., M1·. l'or.r.oCK (ONyntyi took thp Chair

·,-, 'l'entporar.v C:lwirmtnl.

:\1r. YO\YLES: ()n that cccasion we were trc]rl that llw ,·ip:IH, of ml'mlwrs of the Oppo­~itiou wt~l'(~ takun away from them. I do not wa.nt to go into -rhe question of the "gag," bet rn1~u thn t, f'On1cs up nndc~r another Stand­ing Ord{'l'. I wlll show lat~"'l' c_1n ho~v Jnany rirnf':-J the ·' na•r ., w.ts u~cd last SC'SSI<>n, and l1mv· nwnv t(lll~'" tlw bulk of the Opposition wen' diSfrun('his<'-{1. and prPventPd from cr~rrying nut the JHl1'fJO::'(', for ·which the.!' \."Pl'1' t'/{'dC'd.

Hon. \\". BERTELDJ: Yon agr<'Pd \\·ith this anumdnH•nt i ht\ nrlwr <:Y('nlug in tlH' Stand­ing Orden·;. Cmrnnitt"et'.

:\lr. VO\VL2•:S: 1 ,yae thPrP ae o1w of t.he Co1nrnittc~P. mHl the n1a.jority agreed to it. vVhat wa,; thl' US<· of my putting in a pro­h•st y.hen r Ylh in thn nrinority? I say that foul' days is hJo littlP time to discuss rho .\rldri'S' in Rt·pl~·. [f 1his is going to _be earri0d, I "\Yo11ld 1ikP to nntkP :1 sngg-t>'"•tlon to thP I' re ill it'l'. · .\s t-hif> ~i andiug Order takP'> nv .. ·uy ct'rtaitt pridh•gc~ fron1 t}1o Op­po::itioll. and ;-:P,'i-::Jg- t~<:L('h Hh'Inbcr Js only to be nJlmvPcl fortv mlnut,:;. l :;ugge··t that hon. m<'llJher~ on ·this sidu should be given prPfer,~rH',(~ in ca.tching· t.llf· Spe<t~er's eY_e. and that till.' tirnr shnnld lw t'IFUtabl:v dis­(Tibuh'd oYPr uH'rnbcf's on rhl...:; slde. l~v8ry nwmbcr in thi;; Cho.mtH'r has the same right as {~yer:;- othPr, anJ. each has a right to 'l·xpre::;·:.. hi:; 0\\'11 oplulon. f)pean:--<~ l &m

~·ntitlell 1<' cPrtain priYilPgc·~ a~ <1 1nattcr of ( ou1·-t~'s\" bv(·ausP I :-o.it. 011 th<' front bench~ that -; ... ; no l'ew.;;un ''"h'" tlw IJJPn1hers :-:;itting bP hind Ill" ,;huuld IH' ,i,rni'·"d of the right ·t-o \oiet' t1w opini{lll~ ~)f tht• C'1Pcto_r:-:. "\Vho .s~nt. thPn: to this Ifou:-.P. \\'P ;J,rc• d1~fru1dnsing the <'l~~{.'toL·~ hv Jitnitlng :-:pP0Ch<':-:. and limiting tltP JtUT!ll;t•r o.f daY..,.

Th0 Pm:.\l!ER: \Ylw brou;.;ht in thn limita­tion of ~pPPdH';.;.

)rii~. \~0\\~LE~: ~Ir. 1\:id"ion bronp;ht it in in 1910.

The PHE~HEH: lit> had coalt~seccl \Yith '!VIr. l'hilp lwfore thnt.

:\lr. \"ClWLE~: Jf tlw rinw IS to be di,·idl'd ilJ!longst nil l11t'IilbPr'. 1t w1ll allow ~I'Yentut'l! tnin.ut••·; i·o Pat'h. 1f you a~e on}y goinL; to n.llnw sr~vPntt.~en rninutcs to ~hs­~~n·.s 'thP ..-\1lclrC'B~ in Heply. you are ff~ducrng it tn a farce. Tht> 1}t'Prni0r told u~ that we {·onld ">llC'Hk on want ()f ennfidnncc n1otions. \V•• 111if.i:hr bl'inU" onP fonnu·<l. n~ an amt'nd.­Il!I'IYt to tbP .\ddrcss in Hnply.

The f'Rnrrrn.: Thnt vnmlrl lw absurd.

:\fr. YO\\"LES: \Yhat '';ould onr position ),p ·: \\'p '· ould still l11: within the four dn.:vs.

The Pnnru:R: Do it ,j might out.

:\Ir. \'0\\'LES: 1 f ''"'' m0wd it straight out. \VI' would IH' told that ,...,, should do lt on Supp1~·. Hn<l if \YC' did it on Supl?ly. ,,.,, \Yotdd lw told that W{' \Vf'rc- d0pr1V1llg th" pnhlie "cn·ants of tlwir s;llarics. If tlw Vrernicr is 0 .rttisf!ed to rnovC'-·~ ]'hat thP quc~tlon lJt~ now put "-··-~t any tn;1e .. then hon. ntPinber~ c·an be dr~piT'.'f'd of tho1r nghts. and be silenced a.t an~· tiinc>.

lion. \Y. BERTR.\--:.,T: You CHJHlot .. ~ag '~ a want of confidenC'(' rnotion.

:\Ir. YOWLES: T would uot bt• positiv" of th\tl. lH'can"'<' \'i-L' iwd -..o nlHil~- -amp1('~

Rccisirm of Standing Orders. [6 .JnY.] Ret·ision of Strrnd;."U Onle1·s. 75

•of the· "gag '' la~t :-:.e£>'-ion t.hat I cunnot rom<'mbN wlwn it waR not used. I t.hought t.lw ·· gag,. could be used on every oppor­tunity the Coycnnnent had a chance. VVant of collfidc·nt·p rnotions arc 1noved onlv when there is cause for thcn1, an(l are ,vC going to be deprived of our right under the ..:;tandinp; Orders of eAprf'P.sing our YiCIYS on thl' .\ddn'' in Reply. and thrm be compellr'd to n·~ort to ~ubtcrfugc, and affor(1 our UlCU1-

her"' thC> oppnrtnnity o[ ~peaking on a use­lt~s:-; and inforntida.blL' want of confidence ~notion'? \\'"p "\vau1~ to earr,y on in a 1Jusine""'s­lik0 way., l think <>Yerybody must admit that tlrnn is not of so gt·cat -.,~alul) as to justify thi:s ·prO})OsuL nldP'"i the lioYernn1C'nt have a

··lcfiuitP progr,·nUlle to clean up thP business on a. Mt.>,tcd day and go to the electors, as I nnd('l'::.:tand rhov hasP. ~oonc1· than SCl' thf~ right to \\"lticit <'V('ry 1li('J1lbPr i.;;; pntitlPd Jilclwd from him. 1 he;· Prcmiel' should have ·(:allcd ParlianH'llt tugothPr a We(~k earlier. which we<'k eonld hav" bet•ll devoted to th~ ,discw,::;ion of ]oc..:al :tnd couutry 1natters, which holl. llttm1bers do 11ot ofte;1 ha.ve the ·npportunit.. of clt~bating. There a..t'P 1nany local nuLth·r~ in ('OIJUPction ·with deparnnents that requin.:- vellt 11atiug--·uuJ.ttcrR which, front .a. 1-h·i:-.;hane point of vie"', 1nay be of very htt.lr; <'OllC<'l'll, bnt which, from a loeal and .·oullt!';\~ point of vi(\\.V, are of very great urgew:y. Ther(• aro vory 1nany cases where g·rievanc{~s need rectifying, ·whore the depart­ment' Rbonld be puc in th<> limelight, and some \1 h<'r<· offie"r' net•d to be placed on the mat.

L submit that thi, House "hould deal with the 1natter as a noH-party ltHestion. ~Jcroly frorn tllt._' fact that this has hPf'H 1n·onght forward by a committPc, through :\<h. Speaker, is no reason \VhY hon. 1nembers should vote for it purely as :'1 party nwasure. I ask evcrv hon. me!nber to tnkP into con­:-Jidcration "that in a very bhort time there rnay be aJtprod t~ondit.ionS here. lion. nH.'Ill­bers opposit~! rnay be in opposition to-lnOlTOW and n1~· .alc{Ulll<'llt JHnv nw:'\· apply Pqually v.cll to them in r.he futurr;. If hon. members oppo:<it" arc a party to taking away a right fnr which tlwy fought in the past. and they -an the sufferer~ in r1H' futnl'(', they HlUSt

r<mwmlwt: that they do it delibPratcly-some 0£ tlwm m tlw face of tlw arguments they have U6!'d in the past that ev<'r\· man should stand np for fl'<'l'dorn of spt;ceh and his privilegPs undel' thn :-)tanding· OrJers. ~o stroll!{ \V('l'U sotne of the argurnents iu the past thrtt the l"''''eut hon. member for South Brisbam' lwld that there :should bo no limita­-tion at all of any spPPeh. \\'p know why the Sta.nJing- Order:-~ li1niting spo('ches were first introducod-beC'ausc ~-lr. Lesina ou one o~casion n1nde a SlH~Pch rnuning into son1c •Hght hour:;. I-lon. llHnnb0rs opposite then objectt•d to th<.· limitation to one hour in son1o cases. and to fortv rniuntcs in others. The Secretary _for Public Lands wa:; very ~nt(~restlng 1n h1s rPrnark~. ·

'!'he ~ECRET.\Rt FOH l't'BLlC L'>:.:Ds: I made 11 vury good ~peech.

i\Ir. VO\YLE~: Yon umde a very good ;-;pcech frorn our point of vicvv now. I do not want to wash> the time of th0 HoLtse bv reading- it, but it is full of good comrnoi1 sense, :standing up fo1· those privileges yet t:o-day we shall possibly have that sarn:e'hon. gentleman and tho PremiN· and our friend from Bowen going right back on the opinions they c,xpressed then. If they are going to . .do that, I should just like them tn explain thf· ;1Jh"'rt•1l 1 nnditiun" which justify tht>In.

Four da.vs is too short a tim0 for the dis­cussion O'f the Address in Reply. I suppose 1 an1 not giving any secrets away 'vhen I 'RY that in the first draft the time proposed was three days, but the Premier in his goochwss and kincln'''' of heart extended it to four days.

The J'RE>IlER : The Speaker made the -..uggestion.

:\Ir. VOWLES: IJo<•s the hon. member ,--.. uggt·st that it; wa-.; not <L party decision'?

The PHE:'IITEH: Tlwru wnre four on each ;-;ide.

c\lr. VO\\'LE~: Aml the Spcakr'r was the du.tirnutn of tho conunith~P. and onp of the rnernbeJ~R was Ha~ Chainrutn of CorrHnittee;:;. \Vl1ih• thosp ge11HenH..·n ruay be officers of the llottst~. thPv .an~ a]~o a,ttendant:-; at caucus JJJPetings-r~- thing which JWVPI' happened hefol·t•. (CovcrnnH'Iit laughtt•r.) I ca.n a.ssure You th~t o11 a1l or·ccL:-.;ion:-::. ,du•n I have been ·a-.;~o('latl'd \Yith UovPL'IltlH'ttt:-; tlH• SpPalq•r llPYPr aHPlHled a party lllPf't.ing.

ThP PRE.:umR: You nearly fin'd a. ~pt.laker r1u.t at one tinH..~ for Hot attPncling part.y HH'l'tings.

:\lr. \'0\\'LE~: \\·,, ~ot '" far a.s four da,\ ... ;tnd the Pr~·rniPr or SpPakc1·, or, at any ratl' the connnittPe d"C'idc>d that theY \\.l'.rl' Hot' goiug any furthel'. I offered as ~t ~olution of tlu• problern, in order to give Jll()n• nJcrnber."l an opportunity to speak, that 'VP shonld nlnPtl<l ;..)ta.n<.ling Urcl0r 107 and rednc.:o 1 he tinH• to fortv 1ninutes; hut it vvas ouly a~ a In a tt·er of f~xp;,dicnc:v, or <Lll <1ltorna­tivc• in ordm~ to giv~: hon. nwJnbPrs generally a little mor" justice. 1f <'ach member has forty minutPo, in four days we ehall be able to put up thirty-t\Yo :-:iJH:ak{'rs--sixtPcn front each "irle-which means that mot'L' than 50 per cent. of the members of the House will be deprived of tlH•ir rightf'. SouH~UlH~ is going to suffer on Padl ~id.P, and what j u~tification is there for taking n way thC' right' of even the llt>WC'st. o1· :-;ntall(•st, or nwan0st Inember? ·w,, ar<' ull on the snne footing. and the ~tauding Order,; shoLdd ap(lly tn the prince and thr' pauper alik0·~that is, to the Premier and OH' pri,·atc nwmlJL•r. In order to give hon. rnPnlb(~l'8 opposite, ·who in the pa.st have expre~sed the1n:30lvc~ as agai11st ta-king a\vay rights whieh have been so dearly fought for. '"' opportunity to proYc their sinccrit'}', I llJOYl' tlle orni~sion of tltP wol'd "four," with a vi0.w to insPrting- thl' wcn·d ·• niue." 'l'hat will giYP C'Ycr~·b(l{1y an opportunity under the altert'd eondirions of speaking for forty minutPs each. and we• n ru giving sornething away therP.

The PHI .. If!EH: That is thrc'" WP<.'ks of nornwl tin1c.

:\lr. VOWLES: Xo. That is another thing lo bo taken into consideration-we arc sitting four days a week. If what the l't·emier says is <'OlT0CL his following should not wastP tinw, as they nsnal1y do. putting their stuff int-o ... Hansard." -

:\Jr. HAHTLEY: How do you justify that?

:Vlr. YO\VLES: The Premier savs it is tllllH1CPssal':/ for these speeches to b~ 1nade. lf that is so, hon. members opposite should follow tho lead of their Prcmim·. and give the whole of the time to the Opposition, and not he ~~ party to wasting time.

HoN. W. I-I BARNES (Bu/imba): I sup­pose there is not " member in this Com­mittee to-night who, if he >Yere probed to r hP bottom. would not say he "·as astounded

Hon. W. H. Bm·nes.]

76 Rec·isio11 of StullllillrJ o,.rlers. [ANNE:.\1 BLY.] Re1·i~iou of Stalllli''!l Orders.

that there ;;houlLl cO!llP from tlte GoH•nmH'llt a propo . ..:n l ~uch a~ thi~. l <'an n'HH'llllwr

'dwn the E~tituatL·:-; of thL' llouw [7.30 p.m.] SPr:t·ctary', lkpartmPnt \\'PI'<'

d<•hatcd for :six \YC'L~k~. I do not say then' '""~ any ju:-:tiflcatiDn for that. 1-IL'r<~ \\'(' f'ntd u dC'lllOcratic UovPrnrnent­~o L~<-tlled~who com<' .alo11g with the~L' pto­pcsal:-:.. \Yhat do they InPall ~:'

Tlw :-;El'HET\HY I·OE l'eBLH' L\o;us intcr­jP('f<'{L

llm:. \\·. 11. JL\IC\ER: If th<' ho11. gent!<·· 1nan is coiJ~i~t<'lll". lu~ will coni<' ov<·r and vott• ,,-lth u:-<. T!w JT<·onb of ·' Han~ard" :--ho,,­that YC'l'\y clParlY. \YP an' hPin0,· n~kPd tn do :-;mn<·th-ii;.~ wilic;h_ \Yill ~iul]d!· niP<lll that a va..:1 ll1ajo1·ity of thP lllPJilbPr~ of thi:-< J-lon"t' 011 itn 1 JOI'i m1t qut· ~rim1:-- ''ill 11ot lw vt· <J t·hau<·p of t·o.:pl'f'."."i1l~ tlwnl:--t•ln•:-. _b t!un dPnlo­('J':l(')' ')

::\Ir. FnY Tbat 1~ t·ntnmtl!li~nL

llo:\'. \\'. 11 fL\lL'\ES: ]., that ;I"· ,[c.,llo· ('\"<I{_·-' wl1idJ W<' Ul"l' told '"-}ll'ing:-- J'l·olll tht• otlit'l' :--idt·: or ha:-; thl' Pt'Plnif'J' l'f'C't'in•d bi . ..; in~"rl-nl·tit'n~ fro11t :1 hod,- '' hi('h ~at lwrv itt

Bri~J,anP la:'t ~-<'<ll' aJJd ntio]Jt~·~[ ('f•nailt 1'<•;-.;olu­tion~ ·~ 1:-. that thl' \Y<-1~- tht· ~!"OY('flli!H'lli <,[ tlt~· <·oHllll'y i~ going to lH' <·a J'l'it·d 011 ""!. 1 t "ill lw i1npo~~iblt~ [or a IH<'rnht•l' itl tl·w :--:pavp ~11· ~~·,·t·ntt'PIJ HJinntP~ to t'\:j)l'P~~ hjllht·lf on I hP tn:ltf<•J> '' 1:idl !Ja,-i' c·rolJllt•d 1111 during thP l'i'C(\"'·"· That i ..... what thi:-. prulW'"-al would ilJrlount ill. \\'lntr opportnnit_y \\·]ll h givt·n to <1 mc!ldH'I' to dt'td \\·itb uwtt{•J":-; of iuqwrt­a!H't' ·: ( l!I('P thl~ Standi11g' ()r<lPr i"' lJ;:::-:.:--Pd it IIH'Hil:-; that thoH' llH'll \';}JO h:-tY(' lJUl a\l'P<UlY :--pol.;:,·n \\-ill g1't lP~" tha11 :-;t'\·t•rdP<'lt rnl11nt<·~·. l~t•(•an~e tht> :-:.pt'f'('ht'~ np to now haYP lH't'tl fur tllf' prt':-cnt lirnl1 {if on{• l.Jnn·. 1 ;,111 not hlaming- rlHn"' w\10 haq• HYalh•d thPJll:--PlYP~ of tlH· priYi}l'g"t'. ThP ]JI'f•tni('l' blnl:-::,<'1 f t,ook il rJ hour. C'n1ning from l'('CC'S~, holl. lllL'llllW1'1-­.a.rP fnll of thing-~ wl1if'l1 dt•tJHllHl tlH' g-J'f'atPf'-t ;lt1'('1ltion fr01n tlH' I fon:-,t'. ff 1.·:t' d(•~dt ouh­"·it1l tht> uJH•mplo:'o--<'d (pH· ... tion. tl!f'l't' wonl~l 114' :-:.nHiPil'Jlt for a11~· lllH!! tn :--JH'Hk ('{!!' tiH• full tPrnl of Oll(' hour.

_-\ UO\Tl~"\":\fE");"T :\lE.\fBFH: --Yun <:JJ'P not :-t·non:--.

lloo;. \\'. I!. IL-\H:\I•:R: an1 '''~''""'· (':-.JH'c·ially wlH'll I 1·~•rnemllPl' llwt a 1-:liHi::tc·r ~aid not long· <.;iut't' that -in n c;{'rtnlll timP tht>rP \\"(Jttlr] }lp ll(• llllPH!ldO-_vllll'llt. ~\11 all-..\W'I'

!:~;iYP11 iu 1hi"" flou"'t' \(J-dn_\ l'l'\·r·<.dt'C1 tlw faet-----

TlH' TE:\li'OH.\RY C'lT.\IlDL\:\: Onlrr:

Hm:. \\'. ll. BAR:\ES: That £l74.0Qn had 1-J.('{'Jl SJH'llt i11 l'Pijpf--

'j'j,p TK:\TI'CllL\FtY ('11.\IR:\L\.::\: Onle,,:

llo>:. W 11 !1,\H':\E~: ll"rin~· tlH· l""t

TiH• TE:\IPOIL\RY ('[T.\IlDL\X: Order: 1 a:--k tlH' l1011. nH'-rllhf'r 10 ob('\' Ill\' <'a1l to nn1Pr m1d to dC'al \\~ith llH' allll'1~<1nH:nt.

llw: \\' I!. IL\HXES · 1 "·ill ohe,· You;· 1·all to onlt•r. I a1n dPn lillg \Y1th t11P ;nn.cnd-1ll0Ilt 1 ilHl (jlljtl' :-;1\I'P that ,Yhat f \\·a:-: :--:a:villg' I \"it"' Y<'r:· rc•Jpyant to 1--l~t' qut·:-;1 io11.

:\lr HYI);: N<'lHl hilll om for lif<',

Ho>:.\\'. ll. JL\HXES: It will lH· ;·pa.lisPd that. if jn...rif'l' j." ro bt• done- t.n the !ni~dePd~ (Jf tllP GoYPnJnlt'llt during thf! past Yf',fll' only. i' will take tht' full time• which thP hon. JuCn1'bPr for l>alby ha~ :-.uggestf!d ill hi.., .arnondrnont. Tht> -an1endn1f'nt 1nakP:- it po:--­,jbJe for fllll nmtihtion to lw _given to th<·

[Hon. W. H. Barnt<.

,·nriou~ ntattl'l':'- \\hi<"h ltavt' t-rop}ll~d up dur­ing thf• l'PC'P:-:i~. 1 ask the Secretary for l..~and~ -whom. l think. this Hou'e generally has r<'cognisc<l a::-; bt-lng a. fair 111::1n~if it i~ not a rca:-.nnabh• thing for hin1 to ~ay. "\Ye an~ de~lron:-; of {.dYing- an OPlJortunity for pxpres­~ion of opinion in c·olllH'-C"tion \vith th0- affairs of rhi~ QTPai: ~tatP on the .Addr0s(;" in Reply.''

Th• ~r,;cm:T.\RY FOR PrBLJC LANDS: V<aitc until tht· BurlgL•t· come-:-:: along.

llo:\'. \\'. 1!. R\H).JES: .\11 along tlw lin<' \Yl' haYi' lH'I'l! told to waiL Tf Wf' \Yait for tlw Bud~rt•t. \\.P shall f!lld onr:;;.PlYP~ e.hut out. 'TlH' lJnll. ~·l·lltll'!Jlan nwy thillk ''"u ::tl'l' ready to lH' !2'll !'!Pd. but \\'(' a J'C" 11ot g-oiu~: to be ,!..(n1lPd ~in that partielllar din•et.ion. T~t· <lfi:'u-ir:-; of Qut·cn:--lall~l an• :-.uch to-dn.y that Jt. ]..._ inqwra 1 i n• '' t' :--hould ha Y<• tht• full tinw tu di~t'L[:--:--;. t ]WilL

Lt't lll~' illustrau· oJ\(' or l\Yo 1naitPr~, quit(~ :.tpan frou1 the• qtH'"tioil of nuPn1plo~·n1ent, whieh l l!"Pd n-.:. all <tt-g-nn10l1t inf'identall~· If yon tnk(• up tl11--. ·· (}n0f'll~lanf1 Tin10~" ?'' tlw ·· Daih· c;J:,!Idard" of to-day. you wtll Jind thi.lt ~-Iiui'"-t(•r ... and :-ouH' nlcnlber~ of thP­p<! rty :--LI pporti n~t tltt' CoYl'l'llUH'!lt have b~eu Yl'l'Y Pi:lU,'('J'l\' d()illg- tht'lr bP:..t lll ('OlllH'ChOll

with affn ir~ 1lt f pswidJ. \\']l(•H WP Oil thi' ~id(• Ul'l' th(• ll!l'll \\ ho l'l']ll'l'H'llt th0 .clPUlOCfaC~ of d1., ('Olllltn-~iloucl GovPl'H111C'llt laug;htcr; -T \rill put 'i-:- th-i~ way-whPll we arl~ the g'PlinitH' l'('f)}'t'!'{'ntatiYP-.,. of thP den1ocracy of tht• ('UUIJtrv. :-.nrp]v it is rig·ht that. \H~ should haY'' an ,;pportm;ity to ddenrl tlwm in th<' 1lon~t· n11rl to pnt t·hl'ir griPYalH:Ps before the• I Iou~P : \Y t' k11ow that in otlw-r dirt--.etion~ 1l11•n• i,., \'('\'\. =--~·J·ion-.. t1'oub1t> just nnw. Take. if \'<llJ \\-ill. tlw dt'lHntnn· front a very lnq;orta111 JHII't of tlH polic~' nf th1• oth<•r ~jdp_ 1 (·nJJ l't•nH'lllb<•J· ,dH·n tlif' er·.v u:-;pd to bP ·· -:\o Yi{·tiuli~atiflll. .. Then• 1H-t'' lH::..(~n a. depar­tlll'(' fnlln tlw~. aud 1H'{·au~t' one nun1 had thr•­('ottra_!.t~' to ~pPHk l1l:--: <'011\-if'tions.-~

TlH• TE:\!J'(•H.\HY CfL\IIDL\':\: Ord<'r: (),-L]pr:

llo:-:. \\'. I I. B.\l{':\]<;c;: 1 am u,ing that a' ;111 an,!,·uruPnt t.-:) "how that \\'(' rnU!"t ha.y<~ tirrH to di~cH,..... tlll·:-:r: afl'airs. ThC'l'L' arP other ihin~> \\·hif·h dt>nland thP lH">'·t a1t<•ntion fron;· t'\"l'l'Y mc•Jnht>r i11 thi:-- IIou-,('. Th0r0 is i1 bigg-~'1' qut•~iinu \\ l1ich ha.-., t,o hP .... ~·ou:-;idf'rPd. qt~itP apar1 fl'ul!J JHl1't-_;· pohtlL'"· ~out<' of tlH· ~tat(·JlH'tlt:-; l. ha\.(' n1~Hl1• 1o+nig·h1 rt--.YPal thP fact that th<· Huu"<' 'hould ha\<' tlw fullesl opportunity of l''X\!l't~''i':1ing· i~:-;t•lf ~11 :1 critical juiWtlln'. The Pl'!--.JiliPr lntnH~It ha~ rnadE"' :--ta1<'1l!Pllt;-; tbat th~' finalwt·~ al'i' ;-,nch a~ to d('tlla ncl c-<.nd'u 1 co11~idt>1'a tion. Snrc'b- ,vhell, llnkt--.d np wll11 tlH· l[lll':""tion of tbe {ina.noes, tht'l't' a l'i' odH'l' qH<':-<tiou:- of gTI'at in1portance. "''' ,l!ould haY<' tiH' l'ullr•><t tinw allowed tn. d( al "·11-11 tl!('lll. llo\\ :--lug-ul<tr i1 i:-; that thi' attihHk ~honld llO\\' hr· a{loptml by the 1 >n•nriPI' ,d1en 'r<' l'PllWmhc•J' ,yhaT hi~ attitud0 -. .J. ... ;1 wa, lmvl~ in 1910. l1rub<t hh-- tiH· hon. o·untlPnJa.ll ,\-onlcl likP '' Han:--ar~1 ,. to be burit•rl. :-.o far a~ it rc•latc~ to hi:-; speeche~ on t hnt oC('Il.~loJL [-]p wa . ..; ulll' of tlu• 111o~t po"\Vpl·­hd ath-or dtl'..., ill thl' din~c.tio11 of lJOt shorten­inu: tinll', bnt of g:iYing eYl'r~· opportunity to ho~n. llH'lldJC'l'~ to t·xpt·e:-::~ the1n:sdYPc:-. If the.­CoYPI'lJilJP1lt \Yill not givl' full tiutC' fol' dis­L'U:--:::;ion. the only l'nnc1usion to l.h' dl'U"\VD i~ thu1 tlwir ~ill·~ a~·(' :-:-o uuu1erou~ that thev are· :tfraid to o·iv\' tht' J-Jon:--e thr> O]JlHJ1'tuni.t;y· to di~cn:-:.~ thl~n. Thev l1aYP di~appoint-ccl their friPu{_1:-;; th0y <HP ~lllgling iu auothc•r direc tiil!l: und Ll('-l:Hll"'t' tlH•y hHYI' rail<'d tlll-_\ say

the bt·A \\-a\' i::; to close tht' wholL• hn~iut·~s llP, so a:::. not, to gi·,-p those rucn ,Yho rep1·esent the pPnpk in thP Housp an opportunity of placing- lwfor<' th<· public tlw condition of things u~ thl•y l'xist to-da,v. If thr an1end­nwnt of tlw leadPr of the Oppo,cition is 1urncd d<nYll. it \\·ill bP anoth01· nail in tlw Uovermn<'nfs eoffin, and YYill sho"· tha.t they no ab,olutol0· afrai<l of th0 people. and that 1h0_v ,ya.nt to gPt jnto 1'PC0S~ a~ quickly as po:-;:'ibh~ bPcnu:-;p of the dnngl'l' they are in.

~11·. FHY 111-Nri!;ur): I ::un g-oing to J't1 ~·+d· 1lu• pr()po~al lH•foJ't' du• Comtllittet' ro lintit rht• tkbcd · on tht• .\ddl't•:-.s i11 Hep1~-. "rhP ;(n·erJJor·~· ~JH•t>eh C'Ol1tHi1J:-; ~0111 'wlwn• jn tht'

'\ iclnit:· 01c nn•nty-;.;eYPll paragraph~. J-Io11. ·tlt'ntbeJ·,.;. ;; re <J:">kcd to consider the> inlportant· ~Pt'PC'lt of [ 1 i::; ExccllPuc:v t-o d1is Parliame-nt iti th<' :--rUa!J ~p<lCl' of SI'Y''JltPPU 111inntf::o:. [t rai:-..\• . .;; 1 hP qtn•stion of whPthPJ' d1P GoYPI'HHH'Ilt I'IJfl~id('J' thnt tht>il' prngl'aHllltf' i ...... wonh cnJl­

...._jdcring at ;dl. Tlwy haYt' :--t'1- b0fon• tlL' epre>t•nL•tin" of tlH' peop!" this SpPoch.

invol yjtql: uwn:· phast•;-:. of ac.hniniF.tl'ation of th(• Shltt'':-- afLJir:-:., anrl to a~k us to 1-errninate our di··eu• ...... iuu. OI' crjtici~lll, or h •lpful r<•nlark . ..: iu· idP of ."-P\'f'tltt'Cll 1uinutes 1~ asklug· us to

rt<•at tlw matt1'!' with son1Pthiug; little bt•ttPI' lh<J!l c·ont('Hlpt. For that rPw·on alone I thin1·~ i J tl' rl':--olntion :-;]wu1J not !JP <H'l'Ppt0d: a11 .l if\\ • <!J'P f,!:oing to look for any further proof nf the i'Pason why Wf' :-;hould not giYP awa~· <Hll' opportHIJitiP:-; to dis('uss the aclJuinl~tratiou <lf tlw afL-tir:-> of the cunntl'Y. 'VT' haYP the .-,pt•(•c·hP" tnad(~ hy hon. llJPnlb~'l';-:. who are now occUJl.' lug· tlu• Go\'f'rnrn,'nt benc:hP>, whPn thcv ·were 111 oppo::,ition. We have a.lJ rea.cl the ver.v interesting and ·d.renuous fight tho~e hon. member,; put up in defence of the right of free 'P<'ech for tlw people's reprc,putatives. If it \Va . .:; ri~ht twPlYP years ago, how n1u('h 1norl' i:-; it 1·iv:ht to-day ·when tlH' ('(;Jldition:-:: of dw world':--. affairs 1Ya.rrant a t'arpful. wj:-;('. and nwtun• consid('l'<-Jtion ·: Thc· dt'lJatP on thf• .\ddrP~·, in Ht>pl;v i . .., a J'Pply to the Gov0rnor'!-> ;,;pec•ch. If thet<' was no 1·eply to tlw •GoYernor's ~pe<:'ch, what. would tlw d bate bP for? His ExcPI!Pncy is brought here, and the fioYC'riUlll'llt hand hi1n a. prograrnmP contain­ing thPi1· proposa]s for the eorrlH1~;· ':-l '-~ion. whieh he rPa<k an<! we should ha';0 n:<•utv of 1 intl In<H·llf't'l): to confddrT thosP p'I'OJH);,Jl..,_ nnd U< a! with tlrL'Ill in a wav whir·h is lwfittino: an intL'IligeHJ· d"lilwrati•e ·chamber. All th" fact::: <ll'f' agai11st. tltP UC'<.'Pptance of th(' rPsoln­tl-on. Tlw JH'opJn t>lect us ns thc·-ir reprC'SPnta­tivr:-;, e:nt<l thPY "·ould think ypl_·v llttl\; nf 1!"'

if we could bE: inchw<'cl to accppt a :o:,('YPntc·Pn 1ninute·.' tiul<1 liu1it ill couneetion \\·ith liU{'}J

.an iiupol'tallt dPb<-ttc. \Ye would Lr• notllJllg' fllOl'P t;HUI llll'l'l' HHtU!llaht instPad of hPillg·

intdlig0nt. thirlking i11diYiLlual~. l <'laiul th~t r-h1• nwndwr:-; nf tht> Oppo~ition 1HLYP a. duty to tbPJi' corJ:.:.titucnt~. and I al1J ~;oill!J,' to l'( si~·t ;-le n':oolution nr c',~Pr;- opportunii-,.,7

, T (-lo :rJJt-<t ltog·pj her ngTPP with tlw l(•ad0v .:;f th0 Ol>PO"i­tion in Lt'il!,~· preparccl to accept n nu~p day~· lintlt. ff f'Y<'JT hen. nlPrnlH'l' lwre wished to l'ornnH'I11 Hpn;t rlu• adJuini~tration of tht• Go\"C•rnn:('l!L hP :-;hqu]d bP gin~n <t reasonab1P I in1e to do :-:o. I considPJ' that thirtv-fiV(' n1inute~ in ~-omf' c:ases is not a l'Pason<tble 'ti1ne. Frcqnt•Hil:· we find hon. InPrnbcrs ha\·iup; to giv{; up tlwir rig·ht to speak in ol'dor that other rncmbers ntay obtain an 0'\.tcnsion of the time allowccl J,y th'' Standing Orders because they are not ablo to deal with thei1· subjcd in the tim'' allotted to them. The 0vidcncP goes to show that, the time now available is not ~nfficicnt. lt i:- proposPd t11nt we ~honki.

77

lwY<' four duy~. (•quailing t.\YC'ni'y hour:--., a.llot­tc•d to :-i('Yt'llhy HH'mbers in which lo speak. \\.ithin thm tinw they ar<' <"Cp<'etNI to deal "ith impoi'tant affai1·:;; of State', irnportant :-;neial quP~tion::-:, and rnattors -which a1·e of Yital lmportancP to the 'n•lfa.l'e pf the ccnnmuuity. 11ot oJJlY in tlH• citic.;;; hut in 1ho countrv. TlH1 ~tatt~ of th(• coUJJtry at the pl'C'~ ·nt. tiillo i:-; ~udt as I't>quil'c..:: Cdl'(•ful. wi,,<'. aud dPtn-ilcd <·OJJ7->jderation.

Th<· SECP.LL\l!Y FOE :\IJXE~: 1t would lH• tllllclt lwth•r for thP cotUltl'Y if t-lH'l't' \\'lli' 1(•:-;s rnlk. ·

:J.Ir. FHY: r <l_!..!,T('(l with tlH' Loa. gi'Jltl<'mall. f t would lJp lwti ('l' fol' t]H' ('Ul!fltry j f l'CSpon­

:-.i!J!f' :'Y.Jini: tl•t·:-: of rL(• C't·own \\·ottld 111akt· :-tatPnJPilt~ '-inch a~· :-;hould t•nu.t!Wlt' frcnn n•::;pon.-,ihle J.-Jini~t~·~·-,.

TJ", 1 11•:1'\'TY C'I!Al!DU.'\: Or·dc•r:

:\[,·. FHY: 1 a)]( rl'pl,Ying to the' :\lilli't ·r.

Th<• DEPUTY CII.I.IIU.L\'\: OrdN! Tlw llon. Jil('nJhcr will LP in <Yt·dpr in dea!iJI£.; Yi·lth the aiilf'lldUH'nt.

.\'11'. FHY: Tltt• ... v--..ion la-..t Yt'<11' Jade-d ~·1(•\'('ll whole Wl't·k~. dnri11g v;hicJJ .tiJtH' thidy-1\'\'0 Bills\\!'!'·· pnt throug-h. <!lHl dH• Oppo:-:;i­t-:on -..n•n• •·o·an·god ,. on fn!·h--olH' net a:-;iou:-.. J<:yjd('uf'h· 0;;, :''>}1L'!'iPIICf' of i.he (!nYl'lTlll1('Jlt

dnring· that .:.;('"·ion i~ Jllnnift':-<t ln tJH~ lT'5olu­tion 1H l'<' to ;-;tlli further n dnC'<' tlH· tinlt' for whid1 hon. 1H0Dlhl~J·~ lll<P- nd<l!'PS~ this ( 'harnbf•J-. If elovc:n \\'Pt'k"' W<'rt·· snf--R<'i('ltt tinJt• last ion. it w<mld app•'ar to mP that tlw fiOYL~l'lltll<'ld· <:ti'(' <lllXiOU~ tO lltakP it lPs:'. j-]li" tinl('-nlaking it a.bont (•lgl1t WPf'k..... T ant v;oing to n"'i::.:t t]H' curt'ajlnu•nt of 1n~ rigJJt. at anv rate. 1o discu~·~ tht• matt>c•t"• placed !/('fore~ tlH' liotHi<~ as indicated hv th<' Govprn­lllPHt in thP Governor's Speech.· T hope that !ton. HH~lll~Je-r~ oppositt•, \Yho h:n ' fonght ~Ha­hard in t11<• past in df~fPJ.leP- of tb~·ir ri~ht to ,peak. will boldly standnp and drdarn for tlw JH'np!t• n nd not for party. The pa rf'~--, i~ '"'ponsible to the peopln; the party cannot control the' JWopk. At tlw pr<•spnt tinw tlrP Jl<'ople n r<' giYP!l the right of r~'Pr< ' 'nta. 1 ion; hut what is t.ho good of haYmg reprP·

:•ntati>·os if the\' an' not permitt·>d h<•l'ly to disc11ss maiter.s thnt com<' lJpfore them? \V<' lll::l)', perhaps, lw cOJl'ling; dow11 to 1ht• positioJt nf t-hp 1t-3d.•rs of partic1.\ nHtki11g spP(•dlc :-; and t!wu taking a v<Jh'. That mi,-ht i><' in ihP Pn'nllPr'~ rnind. So far as I can sec, thcrf' j,-. no init_·-Jt.ion on the part of th<1 Go-..-crnm>C'llt

tu econo1ni~e. If there ,,,..ere. eeono1ny f'ould ha-..-c been cxcn·i,, d dnring the last y( :te Ol'

two, and extravagant expf'nditurP :-ayed In uwn~- rlir<'ciions.

Th" TK:VI!'ORAltY ClL\IH;\L\'\: Orrl••r'

:\[J·. FRY: That i, tlr<• tmth- pr·onomi,., r'IJtdd haYe been excrciRc·d.

The TK}fPOlL\HY CII.UH'\L\I\: Order:

}I1·. ]J'RY: To cconomisP iu discnssion. to (•<·onoinisc in criticisrns of n1Ettters of import­aurP, is unfrtil'. \Ve know that tlw Go¥Prn­nwnt arc! pledg-ed to a new objectin' \Yhich COY('r~ Bolshc•\yism, and e·vr-rything n1ust lw eomi<l<:'red in the light of the objective of a pctrt.v when that party is in power. The obj.-diYP of the part:;· in power must be' set oHt ln thei1· progl'annnc, .and it is the duty of the Op11o,ition to inquirn Yery closely into anv proposition put b<:'fore Parliament, in ord0r to 'oe what is behind it. I would lik<' tn disC'U"-'3. in thP int(~rests of the countrv !:-'-t'nf'rtllly, thP progTarnnlC' put forward by thn

}fr. Fry,]

Governtncnt, because l realise that, unless 1hf' conntr~v is p1·osperous, the cities cannot he prosperous. gvoryone realises that, if t!'te 1nan on the land j, not contented, then tht· peoplP in thP city c.annot lw contented.

Tlw TEM l'OR \.RY Cl L\IR::\1AK: Order: 1 hope> rlw hon. llll'mbcr will connect hi-; rPHiark~ \Yitl1 tht• aJnt~ndnH~nt.

:\lr. Vl~Y: All the.;e matteri' are roferrc l td in tl~(' GovPrnot·'s SpPceh. l consider tlH' [ll\J[)('''"·l to limit tlw d<'bate on the Addrc'"' i11 H.cply tn fou::· days is an nufa.-ir ono, a_nd i-r, n1u~t hl_,. boruf' in nriuJ that. what a.pphed t<> Uovt·l'lnlll'Ilt 1HPl1lbcr.;: wheu thev were iu Opposition wjll avp1y to thcn1 ag:ai.n .aftPr -the nr-, t Pl('(·tlon.

:'vir . .).[( lHG \;'\ (Jlurillu): Cl1ll quitL' nudPr.~iand thnr tbc- Pt('tniPr. having a yer:'­~lnall u1ajorjty, and \\'ith th0 risk of tha~ n~ajority yani~h-i11g at any utonlent, desire_ .. 1ll cm·tail the lmsinL•ss of the HousP :Jnd get lnto rr't't~s~ a~ quickly as posf'ibl0. I quit symp1u his<' with tho Premier in the posiholl in v;hich he finLls himself, but, notwithstand­in~ that fact, it would be unwise on the part­of tlw Opposition to allow any of their privih·gc••, to be taken from them. lion. nH:Jnber.,. reprcBcnting country distrjcts Hnd i• Il<'L<'-' ,ar.', or, !.he Addrc·•;s in Reply, to bring· Hp ntany 1natters of local importanc0. The:f Htay be parochial to a certain extent, IWYet-tbele~~ they n re of gTeat imporU:tncf' to the electors they roprP~c;nt; and, unless th~y ha.yo an upportunity of speaking· on t.hP Addrc>•>s in R0ply, they will be nraeticflll~ Lh ba rrc•U frotn placing thc·1l· griL·Yauc·c~ heforp l'arliamPnt. Rnd letting the departments know the requirements of thcir dectorate-•. Ycry of1c·n p:ood l'f'~tllt::. an' brought about O\vlng !1) tbP fa('t that Opposition nlL'lnbc·r·.; arc able to lPt :\linisters know just what is occurring iu t-heir Plcctor,tte~. Even on t.hr: pn'~Pni- O(Ta~lon tl1o ::\econder of the ~\.dch·L'~:-­in H,ClJl,v hroag·ht fot'\\·anl s.ornP ver;.~ iu1port­ant local nul! t0r.s as far as the Gulf eountrv ;, concPJ'IlP<I. :md I feel snrP that. thP fuct of the hon. 11H~lnber 1naking hi~ announcr-­rnPnt in this House will eany much mor<' 've:ight. than if hP had rnade his rmnark.-., appertaining to thP land qtwstion in his elec­torate lo indiyidual nrinjster.,, If this pro­po::;.al i:::. carried, ouly thirty n1e1nbf'rs will b<' able to spc>ak on the Address in Roplv. that is, allowing- full forty minuh•s to ""eh si)ecch ;· and most bon. mern hers in this House. especially those on the Uovernmcnt benches, occupy tho full time ~tllowed at present. In fa('L on oecaf'.iow~ thev have received a.n ~·xb,nsion of timt>, ~ltho;Igh the prPscnt limit 1s frxPd at oil!' h<,ur. Oulv fiftPl'll out of lhirty-Jiv<' lllPlllbc•r" ,,( the (lppo,ition will lw able to take part in this debate if it i,, limit~d to fonr <hty,, because hon. rn<'mbe:·s. t-'ueh a:., t!w l10n. 1ncrnb0r for BowPn and th~· horr. rn<'llfb<•r for Fitzrov and others would do their lcvd best to talk .. to t.hcir constituent" throng·h "Hansard.'' I remember the hon. lfl('mber for Bo\vf'n at orH' time suggesting trn1t '' Hansard" should bP made freu· that n Y<'rhatim r0pol't should. bP publish,cd of a!: spe(~che~ and st'nt to f•vcry cleetor, so that }ld \Yould kHo\"\T \'vhat \Vas taking }JlacP in PnrEnrrwnt. ThP n-norts p·enPrnllv that rq1pea r in the Vn'·M d~-~ not g,i.,ve 1nuch' infor­rr;_ation. The Pres~ devotes as n1uch space '" it ''" n to the report&, but th<' people in U!P country do not g-et ae oppol'tuB]t-;-. o·pn<•rallv srwakin.z. of judg-ing- thP .speorhl•s ~nade hV hon. rnt'ln b(~l'.". That 1::' 'vh.v hon. n1en1bP;.,

[llfr. F'ry.

take advant.ag<: of ·• 1Iansard n and :_.:.end so n•any copieo to the people in their electorates. If the !t•ngth of speeches is limited to fo~i,y minute:-:- it will Jne.an a .c1iffcrcn, o of twentv Inir1ntL''· in ('ach speech, and I think that ~S u Fair t hin:r. l ant entit1c·d to speak on the, _ ;ddres< in Rc•ply. It is only rig.ht to my Picc1:Jr that 1 shoulct speak on the Address i:r 1-\P!Jl:. The electors expPct thPir members tt. voict~ t:H_'ir grievanc0s irt this I-lousc~ and '·' ,·m·t,il rhat privilege \\onld hP unjust" Tlw :--)}J~·akPr, by intcLjection. sai<l that tho ·· gas(" ('OHicl 110t be used in eo11ne~tion 'vith <1 .. l\o confidPn<·e" motion. I feel sure that 1lw ;~;Jpakcr '\a~ uot. correct 'vhrn he H1a·h~ tlJat -i11t0rj('(:tion.

T1w T.L\I1'0H.\RY CHAlR.i\L\.\": Th" hou. lllPlnbf'l' 1nust deal 'vith the atnondrnent.

.l.1r. :',fOHCAN: It "''"' stated that one of du: J'f'H!-;Olls why Wl' 2-hould agree to the llf(Jpo:-;at was that on a ·· ~o eonfidenee'' n1otion W<' eonlJ nut be ,; gaggPtl," and I \\ant to polnt uut. that~ if we agTPe to the 1notion. '1'\'C ro:hall be doiug a"'\V'tY \vith onP of our pri~ Heg·p~ that cannot be ~' gagged.' 1

l~wl<'r thP t;tanding Orderf' WP han' our full JlfTiod of oue hour on the Addn'ss in Heply and tlw '' ga~"';" (:annat be applied, hut that does not .appl,v to a "' l\.-o coniiJenc(:' rnotion. '' 1\'o confidence" motions ha Ye bePn .. gag g\'d" a ftf'r the In oYer and ser;onder ha vo spok0n. ::\Iembers of tho Opposition have tr> depPncl a gt·c~tt d0al on the Speaker or the Chairman of Cornmitt<;es to protect their right,.;. ) .. _ Govcrnrn0nt '\Vith a 1najority have JHI\\Cl', lllltlPr t.hP Standing Orders, to p~& oa thP "gag"' at auy tiin{~. They havt~ power to suspend any Standing Order. The yP:tr l>l'for<' last, the Address in Replv Wll.s don<' awa~- with altogether. ·

Thr- PRDnrm: For seven vears the Federal l'arliamPnt had no Addrc·s~ in Reply.

.\Ir. ::\lORUAK: v'i'luttewr the Federai Parliament may do, I feel sure such a pro­P'"'d n' 1 his would be opposed very strenu­

ously by Labour members in the 18 p.m.J ]'edcral Parliament. I will admit

that, if we were on the Govern­m<•nt bPnchPs, we should perhaps endeavour 10 "urtail the privileges of the Opposition; bnt wonlr! thP Pr<'mier, if he were leader of 1 hp Op)">'ition. allow that to be done wit]aout putting up a tight 'I

The PREMIER : I could quite understand that being done.

Mr. M ORGAN: I remember the occasion• when it took six and a-half d~tys to dispose of the a-mendments of the Standing Orders then being made. The Opposition stone­walled to a considerable extent, and the journals which were supporting the Labour­party at thn.t tin1e \Vere very pronounced in rh,•ir attitude. I remember that the Labour jounwl:-: \VC<re agnin:st the Government at thR tinH' tlwy did away with the Address in l=teply. They w0re opposed to the curtail mont of tlw privilegPs of members, recognis­ing tlw fact. no douht, that it would not b" lo!Jt;" b<'fore the present Government would be in opposition. I t.hall be ""''Y intcrP,tod to know what the Labour daily and the workers of this State will say in respect to this move on the part of the Government. I feel sure that, on t'1o d0rnocratie principle·.- \vhich they profcS>, they will not support the Govern­ment in this m~ttter. A Government, no matter what sort it. may be, does not last for "·ll time. If the present Premier should b~,e01H(' the kllder of the Opposition, that is

(6 .Jt;LY.l

not a rnatter about which \VC are concerned; but, eventually, hon. members sitting on the Govcrmrwnt bcnch<'s will be sitting on this ,ide of tho House, and tlwy will be very wrry ii their privileges arc curtailed. I intrmd to oppmc the motion. I hope that the Premier will accept the compromise offered by the leader of the Opposition. \Vo all agree that thu tirnc :..,hould bo for{ y minutes.

The l'RE}!IEll : I will agrc-_, to the com-prornisu. ..:\ecept the rrwtion n ~ it is, and make the limit forty minutes.

Mr. ::VIORG.\1'\: Our leader has said that we will agrc<' to forty minute;; if the hon. gcntlunan will 1uake it nine days. Later on. when tlH· prc•sent Oppo:_.1tion get into power.? 1ve rni::ht ask the .Pn~mier. if -h-~ is leader of the ol';positiuu, to agTPe to four days. It is only n 1.tural that a Go,-cmmcHt should want to curtail Hrc· righh of the Opposition. Gener­ally spl·aking-, hov.·cy0r, GO"'~ ennnent·"· do not talu~ £uli advnntage-~n1oro e~pccially when there hapflt'll to btl a- Governm0nt in power t.hat 1::.: not a Labour Go~"(:rnJu.Pnt-of the opportunity of curl-ailing· debate.

Mr. KEHR (Enoggua): I desire to support the arne!ldmenL I freely acknowledge that a great deal of latitude has been allowed previously in regard to the debate on the Addre•-; in Reply. That latitude is appre­ciated, but it has been used bv Government mombu·s more than Opposition 'inembers. Vlfe have had only one day on the -<hbate on the Address in Reply this week, and because two members of the Opposition spoke, the Premier thought it ncces· ar:; to got up and occupy a full hour. I do not think that any restric­tions should be placed on hon. members in the debate on the Address in Reply, as the debate saves a lot of time in discussion when the Fincncial Statement and important Bills are brought before the Chamber. I think there arc other factors dominating the situa­tion. Thr) Financial Statement and the Esti­mates can come before the House at a much ,,arJier date if the debate on the Address i:q :Reply is limited. Under those circumstances we 8rP not going to ha,-e the Auditor­General's report and the departmental reports to af..,jFt Q". The Government are, therefore, "oing to get out of a. good deal of criticism in regard to the conduct of the departments. \,Ye have had one department in particular brou~Cht unde1· our notice. Those are the things we ought to dic,cuss. The people realise that something should be done in regard to t.he pre cnt occupants of the Minis­terial benches. There is another rea,on why no limitation should be placed on the debate on the Address in Reply, which reason, per­haps, applies more to-day than ever before. The Opposition arc stronger in numbers to-day than they have over been.

Mr. COLLINS: \V eakm in debating power.

Mr. KERR : 'I'hcy are not weaker in debltting power. They arf' much stronger than hon. membc·rs occupying the Govern­nwnt benches, who are not game to stand up to criticism, as is shown by the fact that they desire to reduce the m'anber of days for discussion. At an early date there will bP an elPdion, and it is their duty to reply to tlte criticisms which wo level against them. 'fhc Press g-i vcs reports of what is said in Parliament, which are read by the people, and. if we am not given the opportunity of st-ating tho true situation with regard to the finances, the public will be deprived of

their r.ight~. As a n·presl~ntative, I stand hen~ to exprt"'~S rny vie,vs on situations aa­tht•v arise>. I cannot emphasise too much wh~.t this me<Ws to us. With all the power thnt I r>ossc•:,s I an1 going t<J voice my opinion in this HouS<·. There should be no deterrent factor when I w.mt to express my view< in this Chamber. I notice interjec­tiouc; from tlw Uovc,·nmrnt benches arc very few and far between. vVc -have hardlv had one interjection to-,ighf Hon. meinben< on t.lw othur ;jde are quite dun1b. Not one of thcn1 is man Pllough to voto as his con­s<·ieneo dictates. l\ot on<e will vote according to how the people who sent th0m here wish them to vote•. and thnt is to retain the ri1d·1tF ar1cl r-6vi1Pt.?;P:' of eyery hon. ll10Inber. t)tnne }Jnn. nll'rnbcrs opposite e-:pn~Q5l'd their views in 1910, and their speeches will b" found in "Hansa.rd," but they are sitting durn b to-night~ ::tnd arc not garnP to co1ne ont into 1lle open. The:,· ~,',·ill not vote aS­tlH:·il· r·ow<·ienct• di( r:He , but D~ thPv ar<: told to vote. They are not ~:1.rrlL' t{)" sho\.v their sound n~asonablencss h.Y objectiag to a nestridioll in the debate on the Add1·css in Heply. 'They could easily do that, because I he,· have an 'qual opportunity with olho,. nH•rnbers of this House. I haYe much pl<•asure in "'Upporting the amendn1ent.

Mr. ?\100RE (A ubiiJn!J): I would like to support th0 amendment. I rlo noi. think it. r~ a fair thill[!' that anv r•lectorat:c. ~hould ha-re its privji~~gcs eurL~iled. Ev~?ry HlOirl~ ber should be allowed tn exnrcss his views in this Hou,c:. ·

The PRE~!IM1: l-Ie has his p!'ivilegT3 cur· tailed by hon. members gabbling on ever:y occasion.

:;11r. MOORE : This o.ftornoon we h'ld tho <'xample of thG hon. member for Rockhamp­ton wanting somebody to move that he be grant d an extension of tlme because he eould not finish his speech in the time allotted. He \VilS not able to get in all thai; he had to sa v on the question in an hour, yet we arc asked now to curtail the debate on the Addres' in Reply to four days. The Address in Hcply is one of the two occa­sions when member, have got the privilege of speaking and discussing grievances re­lating to their electorates, and it is not fair to limit our time. It is limiting the debate to thirty members. Why should the other forty members -be debarred from speak­ing? Where are the ehampions of liberty who were here in 1910?

Mr. COLLIXS : 'l'hcy are still het·e.

Ml'. MOORE: What about the hon. mem· her for Bowl'n? In 1910 he said that he came l,lOC miles to Parliament, and he did not want his 0lectors debarred from having their viPws expressed in this House. Where i.;; that. clmmpion of liberty to--day? He is sitting quietly over on the other side of the House because the Go;·ernment have placed clwins on his wrists, and because the Go­vernment at·e anxious to get through the bu· iness quickly and go into recess. cr:h.e Government do not want to hear a.ny crrtl­cism from the Opposition. Consequently, \vhen thl::~y wore in the caucus, chainrs "\Vere put on the wri~ts of all their members, an:i they are not allowed to speak on this ques. tion. In 1910 they were loud in their pro­tests against any curbilment of the privi­lcgPs of members. That was because the time was reduced for each member. I do not know what they would have said if

Mr l!ioore.]

tlH're ·wa.~ a proposal to rPduce> the number of dayc~ for debating th<! Address in Reply.

The PRE1IIER: I suppose you know that you cannot " gag p a 1nan bv putting chain:-. oa his wrists? (Laughter.) •

Mr. MOORE: The Government have •topped hon. members of their party from exercising th.eir liberty. 'l'hey have deprived them of then· hbcrty of conscience because members opposite :-re not allowed to say w~at they thmk. 11 c know what they really thmk, bee a nse they gave expression to their VIews m 1910. 'l'he Premier iil .dominating the whole thing, because he wants to get through the session in rc,cord time. and. because he wants to get through q~1icldy; r.ho mernbPrs of the CkovPrnn1ent partv have to be subsPlTiC'nt. ·

The I'RE111i-:H: \Y" >Yant to get through n~cord "\Vork.

;vir. ::VlOORE: Hon. mornhen; opposite are prepared to he ~nhservient. Thev do not talk now about cotning dovi-?n 1,100 n1iles to express t.he Yiews of their dect<Jrs. It does not matter uow so long us they can rush the business through.

'fhc l'HE'JJEH: I come more th>tn 1,100 rnilf>s fron1 rny Plectoratc.

:},Jr. ::vl:OORE: Th<'rc is no difficult.v about you, bceauH~ you arc allolYC'd an llOl!l' to '}wale

The PllE,fiER: J uot the same as the h'ader of the Opposition.

::V~r. ::VlOORR: Is that any 1·eason why ordmary memlwrs of Parliament ohould he {_'nrtailed in tlu;ir rPinarks?

Tlw l'RE11!EH: I think the ordiunry nwm­b<c>rs should bo curta.ilcd.

:!lh·. MOOHE: A membo1· should not have his rig-hts aml privileges cmtailed at all.

l\1r. \YT~S'L\NLEY: Then whv did vou curtail our rights and privilegE's \vhen · vou were ~itting on the Governnwnt side? ~

:'vh. :\IOORE: I iave lJCver sat on tho Go­v<m1ment side since I have been in Parlia­ment: lmt if I do sit on the GoYernment ">jde, I will express my opinion af3 a private moruhpr just the same as I do on this side. "'!d that is what hon. members opposite are fnghtoned to do. I do not think it is a fair thing. to disfranchise the people in the way that JS proposed under this Standing Order. vVe are only askillg for nine days to he a~lottcd b the Address in Reply. That will glVe eYcrybod:.- an opportunity of ,;peakino-. Possibly, it will only take seven clays, ~s every n1en1be1· ma.y not \vi~h to speak, but we should gin' e>·cry member the right to do so. It is not a fair thing to filch a>Yav our rights in this mannPr. \Vhv should the 'mem­bers of the Opposition he muzzled '1 \Vlw 8houirl the nwlllbers of the GoYornment b;, rnuhZIPd: ·Members opposite can hav<> all they want to sac· distributed to their electo­rat.C's in p<tmphlets.

'\fr. J3RE~X.\N: How do you know that?

}[1·. MOOR]~: Th0 hon. member must be YLl'V innocC':nt if he does not kno"\V that theso pa,r~1phlcts arc being sent into the electorates by th0 bushel. I want to sec our present rights and privilege"'' n1aintained intact. The Govornn1ent have got the " gag" and tho guillotine, and now they want to whittle away the rights of members in this wa.y. \Ve

[M1·. Moore.

haY-c had our rights a11d priYileg{~~ r·urtailod too mneh. and now those who an, always Udking a.hout fn--..e spe0ch are .assisting to curtail our right·' ciill furthm·. \Vc know that th<-~ GovernnH~nt ,,·i1l not allo\v thn right of frnl~ spc(~<'h out~idP. \Y(• hav0 hud an oxatuplo of that ln thP 1a~t t\yo or threr~ clays. r(lhat is 110 l'PtHOH wln? thPY ..,hould curtail thP right~ of Jnetn1v- 1:s Of thls ('lut1nb0.r. \Ve <tl'(' not. ;.~oing- to HHCCC'L·L1 in this llHttter bo­cau"-\0 tlJt• GoY\'l'ntnent lutYt~ g·ot the 1najority. and. if tlwy "" 1•t to Hlch awa~ tlH' J·ights of 1 hP PlPdor:-:,. nothing- can ~tcp thern front doing :--.o. Tlw GoYf•rnnu·nt- lta\?P the p(H'ltH'

to ~tnp the ()lJpo~ition frotH "JH_'a.king- nt all, but I ~1tn f'nrpri·L·d that lllellll)('r;.:; opvo~itt-,. -.;.houhl bP ~<1 servih' and ~it ~n quiet ·while thl~; i~- lwlng donC'.

::\IL ELPT!r;.;stoXF.: It i~ a otw-nwn .--bow 110,\",

_\lr. :},{()(Jl{}<;: !\lpr(']y h<'eau,.e the Govern­Illl'llt arc in ; n a,wkward JJosition. 11H~mber3 on t"l1P GuYel·nn1l'Dt e-idE' hase a llt1v1:~d then1-sclYPS to be muzzlC'd. \YhY shonld t.hev do that simply hccctnse the G.overnment a~e in a tight cornpr? You ('an not SlH~ak on thi~ quc-Ktlon. ~i.r. Pollock. bnt I an1 snt.1sfied that if yon v;,·{'l'C ablP to ::;peak. judging b.Y tht:' Yi<'ws ~YOU hayc expn~;--;sc'"d in this Chamber i1l 1he pa~t, you would :-;tand up for tlw rights and privileges of Jncm hPr~ of this ""Housl'. The amendme-nt. 1~- a jnst on('. aJJd fnl' that Yf'a~on it shonld be CiliTi( d.

:\!Ir. GHEKN (Trilcns,:llr): I desirP to {'xpr{'h n1y disnpproval of tlu· n1otion of the PrPrnicr and n1y lntentjon t() support the <lnH~nJnwnt. In Joing that I aut voicing tlw opinions of the electors [ reprPsent. I know that a gocd dc<>l of time> has been ";Va~ted in c •Trying on the bu3in.P"'·; of the Hous0 in the past. but tbat \Yast<-• of time has not oer-mTcd during- the life of thr' prc·;ent Parliament. hcLausu thC' Jnajorit~· of tht.' pcopll' of Quccn,Jand who a1·e reprcscnt~~d hv tb(' lHPtnher~ :::ittine; on this ~idC' have bCcn d0nif'd ti1nc nnd n-galn the pri,·ilego <Jf (•x:prcssing- their view~, on in1portant 1na.t1crs. tint have come lwfon' this ClHtmbor.

!Ion. \V. FollGAK 8~JITH: How man~ ~pc:cch(--,3 did you 1nakc lB-st s2ssion?

:\Ir. GREEN: 1 foe] in taking up this a.tti­tudu now that 1 am onlv foll<nvln'.( in the. foot~tc-ps of the Preruier '~yhm1 he \Vas sitting on this side of the Hous~.

I a.m following in the footsteps of the hon. m•·mbor for Uowen, who, when sitting on this >ide of the House. protested against a. motion which could not b•c compal'od with thP drastic character of that which has been 'uhmitted this evening, hut a motion curtail­ing speeches to thirt,· minutes in Commit­tc~~, and still giving 1ncn1bcrs the pri·vilege cf speakjng for an hour on the Ar1dr-esA in Heply. \Ye find the l'rt'micr. who was then a UC'W n1crr1ber. strenuous}~~ opposJ11'" a slight rnodifiration lu thf" Standing Or·cters. I!e ntid-

" Still. I know full well the evils of " proposal which will be the means of bringing about an automatic ' gag.~ "

What else is this but all automatic "gag?" \V c had a " gag " in the real sense last se-ssion~ \Ye arf' goin'.; to ha Ye it now in an aulomatie form, eYen on the Address in Rep!~ to tho Governor's Speech. The Prenuer \V(~nt on to say-

" 't'hat is how it suggests itself to my mind. I can point out that we have

[6 JULY.] Revision of Standing Orders. 81

ample provision in our present Standing Urcier' wJ::tich are quite competent to pro­' Hlc agamst any undue waste of time. :-;in<'o I have been in the House that pro,·isi on has been put into operation by the hen. gentleman who seek, now to carry the,e drastic proposals."

If they were drastic proposals, I cannot find words strong enough to describe the proposal which the Premier has submitted to-night-

-- If there is anv occasion for drastic measures to prevent a useless stonewall. then the best thing is to put into opera.~ tion Standing Orders that have been found ample to meet all emergencies in this Logislatin Assembly, and are all that are in force in other countries, and to allow the Opposition to retain that liberty of debate that they should have in discu.ssing public business_ The Oppo­sition shoul·d be given a fair amount of time in which to express their opinions_''

I11 the amendment which has been submitted we arc only asking for a reasonable time !o1~ discussion. I cannot in1aginc the Pren1ier, be1ng a reasonable-minded man and a pro­fe"ed ·democrat at heart, al1t! 80 sincerelv desirom that the will of the people should be exprP,sed through their representatives, refusing to accept the an1endmcnt moved by the leader of the Opposition. The hon_ membPr for Bowen on that occasion said-

.. To 1nv mind. this proposal is an attempt to curtail my liberty of speech in this House, and also to curtail the liberties of th0 people I represent_''

-(Opposition laughter.) Hon. members oppo­site remain silent. It is quite evident that once more the whip has boon cracked over them, and they are prepared to swallow all their principles, and stifle their desire-< for freedom, in ordm to satisfy the wishes of the .tutocrats who lead them. The hon. member for Bowen proceeded to say-

,_ That is a thing which I must very strongly object to. I do not think me~­bers have committed anv crime in making unduly long speeches since I have been in the House. As a comparatively new member I, in common with other member>, have endeavoured to put my views before the House in a reasonable way, and I ·do not think any Government should attempt to take a VI ay from us the right•- and liberties which members of Parliament po•sess, and have possessed for a. number of years. There has been a curtailment, little by little, of the rights of membc•rs of Parliament.''

I contend that this is not a curtailment little by little, but a curtailment in a whole­sale manner of the liberties of the Opposi­tion, and a taking a\vay from them the right of expressing the desires of the electors thov reprc•.ent_ Coming from a. Government with a majority of one in this Chambm·, and a minority of nearly 24,000 people in the electorates, I certainly cannot understand it_ It appears to me that the Premi<>r is pre­pared to flout, not only the will of the people's representatiYes, but the will of the people themselves. It also appears that thio proposal is in keeping with an Administra­tion which is given to victimisation both inside and outside the House, and to depriv­ing people of the right of expressing their opinions. That ha' been characteristic of many actions of the Government during the

last two yea1's, and particularly the last two months. It appears to m') that the Juggernaut of oppression which, whilst boasting of free speech and liberty and of the will of tbe people, yet grinds the life blood of froc•dom and libertv from the veins of the public senicc and the representatives d the people, io now being brought into this House in an end ea Your to destroy the will of hon. members. In the division which took place on that motion we find that the following member" still in the Chamber votPd againct the proposed amendment of the Standing Orders :-Messrs. Barber, Collins, Coyne, Ferric!<;, Land, Mullan, Payne, Theoclorc, and Winstanley. Yet they con­demn othN people for rightly changing their opinions-or rather, not for changing their opinions-but for leaving a Government who desert their opinions and their principles.

:\Ir. F. A_ COOPER (Brc mer): I would like to point out to ban_ members that this proposed Standing Order refers only to the debate on the Address in Replv. As a matter of fact, the Address in R<>ply for years and years has been whittled av.ay, until now it is next to nothing_ In no Parlia­ment m the whole world is so much time ,,-asted on the debate ao, in this. and the intention to curtail it is evidence of a for­ward movement. Not so many years ago it was the right and privilege of members mm-ing and seconding the Address in Reply to appear in the Chamber in court dress. They haye dropped thaL The debate which occurred some years ago in this Chamber on the amendm<mt of the Standing Orders took place on proposals which applied, not only to the Address in Reply, but to the whole of the debates, and there was a curtailment then of priYileges which hon. members enjoyed; bllt this applies only to the Address in Reply. Hon. members may be astonished to know tl tat only a few years ago great astonishment was cxpJ'esscd in Great Britaiu when the debate on the Address in Reply extended from the 9th to the 17th February, and thos(' nine davs included a B'aturday, a Sunda •:. and a Monday on which thE' House did not siL

The i'RE,ITER: vVith a House o£ 700 members.

Mr. F. A. COOPER: Yes. Once upon a time it was the privilege of members of the House to talk upon every 'entence and para­graph of the A-ddress, but to-day the Address in Reply i; in its fir,t paragraph but an expression of the loyaity of the members of the House, and in its second just a pleasant matter-of-fact statement that the matters which His Excellency has placed before us will rccei ,-c our careful consideration. There is nothing- contentious in it, and there is nothing whatever i11 the curtailment of the Addr0i, in Reply debate which curtails the privilcgus of members of the House_ Hon.

members on the other side con-18-30 {LnL I tend that they now have oppor-

tunities of saying things which the-- would not ha.-e if this discussion is cur­taiied_ That is nonsense. If thev want to talk upon subjects which arise in 'connection '' ith other debate·-. they will be talking upon the same subject on two occasion,_ For hon_ members to say they have not an opportunity of discussing grievances shows they do not know th,-, rules and forms of the House. (Laughter.) They are at liberty to discuss grievances on tnore than one occasion ; there

]J[,·. F. A. Cooper.]

82 Revi-sion of Standing Orders. [ASSEMBLY.] Revision of i·)tarl(/;11(1 on· >'s.

an• four or fiye distinct occasions when they can di,.cuw_, grieYances if they know how.

i\lr. KING: "gagged."

Provided they are not

Mr. F. A. COOPER: You are not ·' gagged ., upon these questions. Every member of the House has the opportunity of speaking upon the second reading of a Bill and of discussing the Bill clause by clause in Committee. He has an opportunity .Qf speaking on the Estimates-in-Chief, and then he has an opportunity of discussing those Estimates separately. If hon. members were keen to do the business of the country, they would not want to waste time in talking about things in the debate on the Address in Reply when they can discuss them on some other occasion. I think we should have a litth• common sense and make the Address in Reply a purely formal matter. Let us take it on the voices and give it to the GoYernor before he leaves this Chamber. There would be some decencv in that. His Excellencv would not haYe to sit for weeks twiddling' his thumbs and wondering if the members of this House arc loyal or whether they arc going to give consideration to the measures he has asked them to consider. It ought to be the duty of the Premier to stand up as soon as the Governor had delivered his Address and say, " W c are loyal. \Ye are glad to kno'" }'OU are still here. \V e express our appreciation of your efforts on our behalf. You can take our word we will give con· sideration to the matters vou have mentioned. Thank you) Yery 1nuch. "Good morning."

:\h. SIZER (Xunrlah): One has to realise that those hon. members who haYe been in thC' House for many years, whose names have been freely quoted by members on this side to-night, who have always maintained that the liberti0s of members of this Chamber should not be invaded, now find themselves in a most difficult situation. They have put up the hon. member for Bremer, who, in his flippant manner, has lightly passed over the big subject in a -diatribe on what is or is not contained in the Address in Reply. The hon. member knows very well, and so do the Premier and other Ministers, that the Address in Reply debate is one of the few full-dress debates which we have in this House. It is true that W8 have, provi-ded the Government allow it. a free discussion on the second read­ing of Bills. But we know there are many oubjects not covered by Bills which should come before Parliament; and, if we lose this onp opportunity of bringing thom matters forward, we shall be curtailed to a very great extent, and can discuss only the business the GoYcrnn1cnt like to bring forward, irre­spective of what individuals desire or what the countrv needs. vVe have the Financial Statement;. but the debate on that is now cur­tailed to a groat extent. I believe this Stand­ing Order would be csst;ntiaJ, provided the policy of the party to which I belong was put into operation; that is, that the members of this Asscmblv .,hould be reduced to such a number that 'thoro would be ample time prm·idcd under this Standing Order for each membPr to speak. Hon. gentlemen opposite do not suggest that. One electorate is not a:1v different from another, and if an hon. member has a de•,iro to air his views after he has received endorsement of the electors, there should be no force in this Chamber­which, we maintain. is a free institution pro­Yiclcd bY the British Constitution-which should d.cpriYe him and the pcop!C' of his

[Jfr. F. A. Cooper.

electorate of the right to be heard in this debate. The hon. member for Bowen and other, fought for freedom of speech long before' they came into this Chamb<n·. 1 appeal to those hon. members to realise that they are deliberately establishing a precedent and overthrowing that for which they fought. and 1naking an innoyation which is not adYit'~ able or necessary. Ther0 might have been some justification preyiously for a curtail­ment, because w<' had a reYisorv Chamber in which any question could be ven'tilated. Hon. members must recognis0 that now this is the only Chamber in existencL' in Queensland, and that. \vhen a rneasure passes through here, it becomes law, and there is no time for reflec· tion in another Chamber.

Mr. DASH: Hear. !war!

Mr. SIZER: The lion. member a,;rces with that. For thC' safch· of the State and of themselYes, the Go;-erlll1H'ut ~hould ;not curtai I discussion. but should allow the frec·st dis­cussion. It is not necC';;;sarv to discuss the Address in Reply on nine ~onsecutiYe davs. Other business mav bt> done in the mean­time, and this debatc> mav be turned on at any time during the sess!on. I do not sec why any hon. member should be deprived of the opportunity of speaking if he so desires. Probably the reason the hon. member fOl­Bremer \va, actuated to make thP speech he· made was that he begins to realise that it would b'' vcrv useful to burke discussion The hon. member possibly would like t~ burke discussion in Ipswich. That should not be allowed in this Chamber. Hon. members on ~oth sides should treat this matter purely on 1ts mel'lts. deYmd of anY party feeling. having in n1ind it~ bearing on thf' Constitu tion and on the fr<'edom of Parliament.

Mr. G. I'. BARI'\ES 1 lruncir k): Th£> Premier has not indicated .-et whether he is prepared to accept the ~·en· reasonable amendment proposed by the leader of the Opposition.

The PRE:'!IER: I am sorn-. I intended no di,,courtesy. ·

Mr. G. P. BARNES: I wrongly inter prctcd the hon. gentleman's attitude. l thought. by his extreme gradousne'·' on tlw front bench, that he had fully made up hi" mind to agree to the compromise Sl\ggested. Surely, when the Opposition suggest a reasou~ able proposal to meet the Yiews of the Go­yernmPnt on a matter of this kind, bY Tl'­

ducing by one-third the time origlna.l!_,. allotted in connection with the Address in Reply. the GoYernment might have shown a disposition to meet them. \Y c have to remember that Parliament is differentlv constituted to what it was in former times. \Ve are sent here to delibferat" and to Yoice our feeling·. Formerly. when Bills were sent to the other Chamber, there was oppor· tunitv for rediscussion and reconsideration of matters. If we make undue haste first in one direction and then in another. we shall haYe no end of amendments later on. Half the time in thi• Chamber has been taken up by moving Yarious amendments to existing legislation. That i:-; going to be multiplied in the futur<>. The Government might ,,-ell consider the amendment of the leader of the Opposition. The hon. membe1· for Bremer· made light of the Address in Reply to the Governor's Speech.

:\Ir. BREXXAK: \Yhat is in the Governor''· Speech?

[G .Jt:v.-.]

Mr. G. P. BAR::-.iES: I um fa1· horn beiu~· :HtO ~of i-lH)~\· wh:J ~ay that thr-l'O lti nothinP,· -"' tn•• Arldrc;., m llepl,· to th<· Governor',; ~puech. There~ at_·e very big tnn,tters thar. Juvo u right to be aitunclod to. I Ji,stcned ·very atteHtivcl:, i he other night to the Pre­miu·, bnt he 11y no HW<tns eove1·e<l the who!C' of tho rnattc:t·s 'vhieh should have rcreiyed !tis attention. We bhonlcl have known his mind in comwction with them. Look at tho rnattcrs referred to in connection \vith the (jovcrnor's Spcceh. Look at the alteration that has bC'<'ll ma-de in the objective of tlw G-overnrnPnf party. Eve.._ y hon. mernber i::; .. ;oing to vote in conncc:tior; with the cliffcrcm 1nattcrs, a.ntl IVP \Va.nt to kno\Y jf the Govern­'!'tfnt ~tro. ready to abandon their old plat· torm. Why ohoulcl hon. members not have ml opportunity o[ saying thai; tlwy arc w1th ''" or agamst us·: \Yhy should thcv not hn.vc an opportunity of savinrr •· V\lc" will il.bandon once !md fen· ever "om':' old policy,: w·c aro appcahng to the eonntry ~ \Ve have altered our tunc; we have found we have n1a.clc a 1.nil'5tal~e; we arc coming out on hroadee hne ~ ru the future, and '''e arc 11ba!Jtloni~1g for ever the policy of national­IsatiOn of the mca.ns of productio11, distribn· t1on, and ~~xchgHg(' ~' '! 'flicrp is the big matter of tnat new mclustrv-tho cotton in­<)natq·. If. it ;,_ ,,-hat the Government pre­fer·.; to behevP 1t to be, en~r:y nH11l should ~Htvc an Ol?P~l'tuEity of discw,_sing it; but. 1 f wu ar0 !tmlted to scv0nteen minutes .. ho\\~ ;u·n we gomg to covc1· that bi.o- ancl mi.rhtv ~.(Ut~'5t:ion '! l'\o mPntion has b~r~n mad~ o'f r.hat yet by uny bon. member-not c·v<'n by dw Prmnit'l'. ~i,hcrf' ls th0 rnattcr of imm{­~ration in the forefront of Hi;; Excellency';; ;:,pcech. and wo want tr> know how hon. lilCinber:-; OIJprJsitn an~ vie\ving that 1natter. .. \nd "\vc "\V ant to kuoy· thcil' y] C\YS on the matt"'r of ccttlemcnt of thP Bnrnctt lanth-'. It ~hey. arc going to takn away tho oppor­t,unity they have oi"" cxprc~s1ng those Yiews. :·v _: ftl:(~ g<Hng tu kave thi~ C1w .. mber without tdlowmg wherf' individual members stand '['here is the hig matter of \nttct· conserva: t~1on. ~\:~~ are striking. out in new dirce­t·lO!ls: llw Govcrnn1cnt have be(•n \vise in stnlnnr: at the psy...__hcloO'if'TtJ moment bv .doing CJrtain thing~ in co

0

nnect.ion "\Vith th~~ notton industry and land settl0mcnt. A vreat opportunity is oll'cring this couni;n and "c should abide and give oanwst cle: hbcratwn to all the affairs, not only those Umt havo b~en suggested by the Govern­ment. but \Yb1ch may be suggested from this s1do of the Chamber. IV c, as rcprcsenta.· t1vrs of the pc•oplc, have a right to know whe,·c we 6tand in this Hnusc "inclividuallv ;-)o1no hon. 1nmnber~ who haYc been ~;;o1nC.~ what reticent on various Dccasion''" in the past . have not had an opportunity of ex­pressing- thf'D1SC'l.ves: an.d they arc going to have _less opportumty m tho future of ex­pres~·~Ing their opinio!:s. I a1n sure that, in the mtcrosts of the countrv-and the coun­~ ry stanfh; for opportunitv:_the nrr1Pndment by th" lc·1dcr cf th<> On]oosition sh~uld bn ;•c:ceptod by the I'rcmim~.- Nothing will be lost. It . wil~ be a mc~ns of furnishing an 'f)!)portu1~1t.f tor expre,~sinp;. according to the nghts o hon. members. their Yiows regard­ing various matters which mav be intro­<luccd hom time to time by the Government. 'The on!y opportunity of fully considering the pohcy of the Government is at a time !ikc this. I hope the Premier will accept the amendment of the lca.dcr of the Oppositio11.

:Mr. :t'EgHICK~ (South Jlrisbanr:): Some­thing· ha::; been Baid about tho opposition to a pwposa.] for the eurtai lmcnt of the limit a .. tion of speeelw·, in this Charnber some vears ago. I think I a1n HtfC' in saying that {vhat­evt~l· qpposition was offered at that time the lwu. members who weru here then can vh1im that the Opposition had a bit of kid;: in it-a kick which is ,.aclly lacking in the opposition a.dvancocl to-night.

:\lr. l£LPHJXSTOXE: Therp is a lot of kick in VDUl' GovPrnrnent this veal'. You are fL

v<>r)· milk-and-water crowd.

:\Ir. FERlliCKS : Fo1: many ye~trs past the anti-Labour Pro s, "hi<:·h mpports hon. gcntlcmcm opposite and moulds their opin­ions, ha-s been regularly and almost inces­'antly advocating i.hc abolition of the Address in Reply debah~. They have been saying, and anti-LabouritC's hnse said in this Cluunbm·, that the debate on tl1P Adch·ess in Hop!:; should be done away with altDgdher. If we believe for a moment that the state­nwnts mado by hon. members oppooite con­tain any f.'inu~rity, and that t.hoy mean wha.t the:'\~ say, instead of opposing the proposal J<ov; before the Committee, one would cxpcc1. them, noi only to heartily fall in behind ill support~ bnt to Inovc a.ntl•ndrncnts thai would bf:' all irnp1·ovement upon thP lin1ita-1icns that llavc been proposeU. for the reasou that they would outdistance the Government in that n'sp~:ct. Speakt'T aftP.r spanker frorn the Opposit,ion ha· said that the Government a t'P go in~~ t.o be very sbortlivr'd. and \vill go out almost uny day-that thn people arp "aiting fo1· thn Goveen1ncnt, and that one<' they go lo thl• )lPoplo they •vill not <:OHl<' back a·· thr Govenunent. Do thr~y, then. expect the peopln will ihen bclicvo thei1· a~-"tn·atces th.1t thf'"'; arc iD carnc~t both \·\'"fl\'"S ·~ rrhcv { tnnot'"' have it both W<1VF, If th('Y .n rP in~ earnest about their protestation~ rPf! a.J'ding L:nfairncfl~, and bPlieve that. thf'v cu·p going· io t .. lllC over to this side of tl1(~ 1-iou:::e. 1hev wonlU rndcayoue further i'o ti,~h:on up t'he liniitatiow:; or restriction·" Tbt• JH~opl0 ·will not l1elic>ve that hon. n1crnb~r~ l'.ll.IPOslh:"' would cxt0nd 1nuch consideration -t'o u ~ if \\. C' \\-f'l"t.' o11 the Or1position side of the Cl! amber.

Au ClPPOfUTIOX ).![EMBER: Yon Yotccl both \vays.

:\h. FERlUCKS: If hon. nwmbers wonltl ho lwnps' to themselves thcv would udrnii that the< Jl'L,ilucnt proposcd.here, and l'V8n

a gre .. ttr-r curtaihnent, 'vould be an absolute godsend to threc-fDurths of hon. member," oppo~ite. ln previons dobateC·' during the la,t, i·v.o s<.' ,.;ions it has been painful-I speak svJtlpstlE'tically when I say pa1nful-to observ( hon. IIH'Inbers on the other side endcavourin<r to string otJt their stweches to the full tim';: allowed them under the Standinp: Orders. l suy to thO"IJ hon. nl.'tnbers that it i;) u hug(: n1istakc for arn: n1an to cndca,vour to utHi~f~ to the full CYerY minute of the time that ie at his dispo::lnl. That is to say, if a, n1an can l'f"'' all the meat in hi:;; remarks in twPntv minut<'' or thirty minutes. he ;, makinr.· a lmgc mistake if he trio' to string· ont his remarks for forty-five minutes or sixty minutes. I think it i' a wise thing to curtail ihc debate on the Address in Reply, because this -debate of all debates has the leact business iu iL In the old dayo;, when the il.ddress in Heply debate was strung out for a period of three wceb, the listlessness of the debate was apparent to everyone after the first couple

Mr. li' erriclcs. J

84 Revi8io : of Standing Orders. [ASSEMBLY.] Be· ision of Stand;n,, O·rd,Js.

of davs. It is ab·olutc;ly a dead debato after it has been going two days. A certain number 'Of hon. rncrnbots having spokE~ll, uvery other hon. nu~rnhcr fce]s it rnr-uml-H'nt u:wn him, in the intorc:-its of his eon":titucnt or hi~ political v elfare, that he also should get up and n1 .. kc a speech; and particularly do( , this tu lJOn. memb(!r8 uppo:::itc. I v.·ou1d UJH n hon. n1crnbct oppo ,jtr~ thn d(' ~s of c iu thRir

concE uttatc it leas and con-t1E'lt :;·(llJ'l,rk~; nr.t~- tc rc,dl::J! that their

c~icGbvch- Pxpn~~scd a srcPch of forty ihall in one 1.J£

rnilllJ_tcs, anJ l'.'ould be of far 1nore U~t~ c ·r1~titucnt and to the country and

po1it:cians thernselvL~s. VoWLES: In 191J you ~aiel there should

be no ljm)tation of &[JE~e-:;:1 at all.

Mr. FJ~RlliCl\::S: I was mor) consistent than tho hon. lDembcr is no\v. becn.u~e J opposed any li1nitarion at all; but the hon. memlwr, while h2 objecto to the prinriple, is tr.vinq to get an {:_•xtcms;on of tin1c. I objected to it and fought against it, which hon. members opposite are not doing to-night, but I have had twelve years more experience in Parliament since that time. If speeches were curtailed, not only would it be of assist­ance to ho11. 1nm11hcrs in putting their views befme their constituents, but it would also popularise "Hansard," and would lead to a grca ter distribution of " Hansard " and it~ wider reading. " Hansard " is read in the country to a far r;reater C'xtent than many people think. A,; one who used to read " Hansar-d" a good deal before I came into Parliftmont, I know thet the speeches which are long drawn out. and which are merely a reiteration or rehashing of previous speeches, are a bane to the people who read "Hansard " in search of knov.r~edge. In pre\·ious sePsions it has been a sad spectacle to listen to tho roitr,ration and rehashing of speeches one aftl•r another.

Mr. MoRGAN: That is what you arc doing now.

Mr. FERRICKS: I venture to say thrrt the ::;ent-in1cnts I run expressing novr have not b0c>n uttered during this dcbat·~. During thiR debate hon. mcmbnrs on the other >idc of the fiouse have got up, one after ano~bPr, and reiterated and reha<hr·cl the same , tate­rrlf'nt· -they aro 110t aq:!''lD1C'P+-::-in n,...Oer to get them into "Hansard." The Address in Reply debate is the one conoerll(Xl in this. arncndnwnt, and, us pointed out alrc::~dy, thr·rc aro many opportunities to anv hon. memb,•r who wiohes to speak, or who has •·ny :iclea to put into print. in the many otlwr de bates which come Lefore the House from timo to time.

:Hr. TA YLOR (Windsor): There is one matter in connection with this di cussinn that has bnc,n overlooked, and it is this-the Oppo·;1:~on is ahvn,ys ot a vrcater di~ 1 dvantn~o in d('hnting- or in criticising anv 1cp:;s1ation than hon mornbcrs ::;ittlng bohincl th0 Govf'rn­Jnf'nt. Th0v 81' 0 aiwnv~ nt n_ dl:;:;...,.rlYnrt"'u-e in tbat regard, bc"ause. there is certain infor­Ina.Ji(,;J ·.vhich the suppnrto,rs of tht~ G-oveYn­mf'nt rr>co-ivn brfore 1,-.q-~c:lnt;on io:: -intrf'iltlf'<'d into tile Chamber whicb members of the Onno•it'on do not get. Memlwn on the Govf'rnnwnt si{]c have an opportunity in cau~'u~ of ciisr~.1~sing- and dcbat;ng the wholP of the legislation which is to be introduced by the Government, and, 1·ecognising the

[Mr. Ferr,icks.

novv in

OJ•

work, of the·

tok<·

intn)thlCi d. a.rH; in the c h- vc set nut \V hat i:-:

bo thr~ pLJ~-,-r '1n1ne of thl !<~~,:_-;ion. P.ight at the>

ycrv eo unu'nrrq·nt•ni~ of the ~t··'~ion th0 Govcrn­nH~llt. ~ay, .. ~ There is our, p~·o~;ra;-·~fl(-'. w~ :- .v fl 1, tt1(~ 111 the Gc,rcr~wr · :::;rL ecn tn regard tov \vlwt \V! ltav{~ done dn1·in~; the past year, n.nd uo1v '< ou have ctll opportnui Df discussing v:hat we inte'ld to <lo in the future." And thE· di.,cussion shouJ.cJ take place at that juncturc­nnd not. as has be _·n suggrsted, at some late1~ date. A discmsion at the very time that th<· progntnlnte for the st'"dion is J_dace-d l)(:fore u~ is tllf~ pl'oper thing. In prevH;us SC'"Sior;s Wt have had a fair amount of tunc to discuss these• rnattc•rs, but no1v v.~e an 1.~oi!1g. to be c·•t down to four dnvs. ~o dou,Jt. It JP· trm that son1o hon. 1netnbers can say ::_,-. much in half an hour as other hon. members < mi in an hour b•1t to cut down the time limit by the SLctl~dincr Orders is a n1istakc, and, if the Pretnio1·

0

is not prepared to give us nin(• days, let him giYe us seYen da:-:s. \Vy claim that four da n is not a sufficwnt time fm· In<~mbers of t.he Opposition. apart ~ltog"thm· from members on the Gon·rnment side of the House. intelligently to criticise alld _discusc the matt·ers to he brmtght fonvar.l dunng the· ·~. "'~S~Oll : aiJd tlv~ YPry shortPst tinH~ that \V0 should have should he seyen days or nine days Hon. members o;1po-ite talk abont four or live davs being- suffic'ent to get through tlw Acl.c!r< .:; in Rc,,ly. \Vhv. v r havr bC"'ll two hours to-night getting through about half a­dozPn small (lmcnchncnt::. and hon. rnembcr~ on both sidr~ ltaYC Ycntilated their Opi1110DS.

I n1ust confc-s n1v surprise at the change of front of -::ctne h;n. nw~nbcl'S on the G?­vcrEment s'<le who chtim that they arc n,t hvrur of ""nd have foug-ht fo1· freedom ot spec~h. To cm·tlil the; !'J"iYileges of hon. moml>ers H' is proposed to be done bv ~h'" rnotion is not. I think. ~oing- to be conducJ~t

to the best leg-ishtion, and mH [9. p.m.] not be in the interests either_ of

thf' prcfl.cnt or any surC'cod'n~· GoYP:.·nrnf'Pt. The f:tqtc:ncnt has bc0n m'tdc~ tl1t thr cl"!J on the \ddrcss in Reply I> pnlf'tic ~ 11_·· but I do not agree with thnt. Tiv::- t:rrw for the Govcrnrn0nt to P 1lt their rp·0~rarn~Tl8 llf'fl')rc Parlirrn1cnt is ,vhcn i h,, _A del re'~ in Rc,>lv eorncs before m. I ehall 1'" Q"\nd if the Premier will E"dE'nd th•· t;n1c r11Jowr>-d lJcvond four ch,ys, which I con~ sidcr is quite. ~n inadcqvato tin1c for dL­cu:-,slon.

l\Ir. RW A Y:;\JF, (Jfirr111i): T'er,onally, l1a y~ a1wavR look('d unon the debate on the Addr.•q in Rrply as -'"' opportunity wh'ch nwmlwrs on both sides of the House shoul,l cnrPfullv rei:nin; it is the ono opportun'ty wr haYL' for full debnte. Some hrm. membPrs hove rdrrred to the debn.te on the Financial Statement, but in that discu& --ion members

H~''ision of Stunding Orde;·s. [6 JULY,] 85

1re zuo 1\n~d to concentrate their rurnarkf-' Jnoro G·t.- l1• .:~ on fi.uanc:·. while in the d-cbatP nn the _;\_ddrc·ss in H(·ply tlwy are permith:cl J;o Jiscu"1K ;' Yride range of subject:-;. 'rhc .,Jcbatc en tlh' _._1\dclreH in Reply gives new n1cmbcr:; ~ .l o:Jnortunitv tu vo1ce thei1· -·Jpinion:-:, :tth1 f:h~~vv wlu1t originality they nossc:~-.. ·i :!ink thaJ there ~hould be no 1\imit ~Lion rer:rard t.o the d-ebate Oll the .•\dch·p.,, in P.''J?(' ond \Yhat e already 1HlVC. \\T ail Kr10\\' l1lCJ11bCrS arc lu lJt much :w -1 tc-r t\1 tho quQstinn now than the~: ~\ore year·~ ago. .[ contend that t.he dcbat.r• "" the' _\ddrcss in R·ply i·• the one oppor­;,unit:v V't~ ha Ye for £nl1 d1:r:us. ion on rrtatters uf polic !f " tim" limit io :-nccdw· of fm·ty with llirw cl ys for the debate, _i:-i adop-, ·:L ·will giYe opportulnty to •"V<~r--on to gt·t up, ii wish. ..:\ftct ,:dl, ~wh:t'- :1r:~ nine ·day:; nnt Di davs'! t Ion. ' !I . L0 h:. vc 'U ;airl l<VU houl· ~ ;)hey 11U\'_'

lll1JJ( 'iUIJl·

[], " c~ rn <rl'l C.) l

:--it

;• {c

durlt

:-·.ix :rnonths, .and 1-i:uit. us in C/J 1nost

IYhi~..:h Padian1-f'·nt i he· SL'Ci :}( L \Yhrt t ~ur­

of 1.t•)L nH <-n­hl.:'tnbt~r for South

}lf l'U 201118- ntt('l'1HC~~S \vb ·n a siniilar qucs­

;d 1n 1910. I vroul.d t-he J?re1nicr ou thot

ne r~.-;idlL 1, c-,vn ·wunL-<, ihj~ 1::-:. ,-"'.hat v ; ld C't.ll the iuvosition of an •• auton: ·c '~-thn,t i-:, :.-hen a ccrtaln ,·,iln~" (O!Tl\ -1 qurstiun is pnt autom:;t1ca1l.v.

\vill cp;o. C-i() ho:n. gcntlcn1an'::.; o 1)inion.; on " auton1nr-ic '' as rcpott.Pd on pa,,.:o

':)41 of "Ilo.'nard " 1910--

·· \VhiL-; w:: rctog-nisc the :!'oasnna1leness of hcv in~!' f:01l:1C li1l1ito.tion of ~pccrl"lcs, n cant;ot d1::)Lovor tl>: wi~.,do1n of 1nuzzUng our-sdYos by accc,pting thi.; motion. 1 must ('onf ;,c, ihaL I am not well acquaiutPd vvith rules of proC'edurc n.nci parlianH'ntary practice. I have been in the Jlonse too brief a time to have a thoroug-h knowledo:e of all the rulcK goyerniH~. debate) but stjl1, I ktow full wPJl thn <'viis of a prop0snl >Yhich will be the H!PaiL.:.; of bringing about. nn ' a.uto­rnati<· gag'., "

~ f anything furthe1· is tvantcd to i11ustratn tho change of front that has taken place on the part of the hon. gAntlornen opposite, it j,, in this uttc'rance of tho Premier, in 1910, :wd his adions to-day, as the question to-day is idcniic,d with th,_ question then. I find f;hat th hor1. n;<mber for South Brisbane, iipcakinp; on that occn.,~ion on an arnendn1ont, ...t!pporh'd l,y the pr<''<'nt Prt:mi<'r, to extend *he ticnn to :iorty-fJvu n1inut ;~, ·,;lid~-

" W'hil· I intcnrl to snppol't this amend­men', l wish to · -'Y thPt I am opposed to any lirnitation of speC'cl1os. I •"upport t,his nr.:.H'lH:lmcnt as b<?i~Jg £;11 irnprove­l'!'Cnt on that outlined bv the Government in proposal> which they have brought

--hi~ licn:~u. I contend if there is to Lf~ any lirnitation. the rnost necessary Em!i.atiu 1 i3 a Jimltation in regard to tho six nH nth:::<' recess.'~

T.ho ~ix month~' rct ··::i was what the hon. uwmlwr '"''''"" f<1 limit. Ho e,-idently wnnted a si" tuon±h-.' ~(h ..:iPn-not a se~ si on of +·'ight or r!1ne vveck: 11kc the last one--

.. 'rlw arn~Pdmcnt will give us at leao;t the opportunity of expr. 32-ing our opinions with less curt tilrnf'·tt. \Ye have

curtailnv ut cnou,;h wit.h the six months' recc:,~s."

Then. again, I Iind tlJat tlw present Secre­! ,try for l'ublic Lands said--

.. I only vpprovc of it as the le :;c1· .of tv;o eYils. 1 am in favour oi unlirn:t_o.d t:rllC, as I h -, yr already ·,aiel. If a .. rner.a­ber (lt!liboratcl ,- attt~n1ntrd to waste time :in thi~ I-Iou"t\" he \Vo~lld he" brought to hook lJy bis const: tucnts on the very. first opportunity, nnd by bis O\Yn part_y·, too. Thi:? is 0110 :in<::tanc;o of thu evils of party gO\Trntnont.''

?\ow wo come: to the di\rision on that occasion. ou t ht' a""nCnlhneat that thP tirno should bo ( .d(•:nded to forty-1h-n n1in-1tr ~;. i \.n1o11g"'-:, th1~ .. ?\ O":c. ~' \Yt'~Tl ~I.,~srs. BtJ.l'LiJr, CollinB, CoJnB. Fe:rri('k;.·, ro, Theociorc, and \Vin-"'r :tJ.:.l!·Y. occLd3lon, the leader-

th~- eau clal--l the vob?s ~\gain, I find that

'1\J \Yers, tl1c present

l a.m 1n f- vour

< OL ·-Jc) Lo dl , tus ~:_, ;h 1.vant of iu n·,ply,

T1H-~ ~lon. 111Cn1h. .. :r then n. ~ur.::ht l>~e ought tt ba an h--ur and a-halL Now ho is Yotinr~ for fort~ 1nlnutcs Tlus is very straE~' P; if I n1ay bP perinitted to say so. rhero i~ sotnething sinister jn it. \Vhy should tho.·e £~cnt:cmcn who expressetl such strO!lf;<:" opinions in pabt :; ears, no\v that they havo the reins of goycrn1nent in their hands, want to c:uriaJ l d<et;are? I say that the righb. and privilege:. of hon. rnernbers have never been u restricted as they have ber·n s:inco a Labonr

Goyernn1ent can1c ~ into pot."< er. Can we be enr;)l'iscd that people outside wonder why it. is! I can understand thu temptation there ·j, to the party in power to use that power fw i heir own advanhgc, but I think that "' g JOd example shonld be set.

It is more c · sential, now that wo have only one Hon"e of Parliament. that we should have additional time for ea,ch speaker. Aiter all, what arc we paid for but to do the work w0 are PPnt hf:'ro for. l~ven if '''c do sit here for five 1nonths nt a tin1e, as has often been orJyocated bv members on the other side, it j,, on!:-' what" the electors expect of us. How 'an this Ho us~ do its duty when last session w-; only met for eight weeks? During that time W(' put through thirty-two Bills. and most of them became Acts. It took seventeen da.vs to pass the Estimate.-, and than we had tlH'· Address in Reply a.- well. and all in t•i[!;ht• we' ::o. \Ve cannot do our duty under these conditions. Tho eondi tions arc going to b' Hude \YorsB than they were before by thi., Shndiug Order.

~\1,-. l'ii \X WELL (1'.-o/f'ung): Although I nn1 ::·~ITc·rillg fron1 a cold I an1 not disposed to ~.6\'{' a sill'nt vote on this question. Th' Prcrn1er g'aYP us one reason ·.>..'hy this 8hould h·c intrcducccl, and that was that the Denham ~~\dmini,trntion~ when it occupied the Govern­Hi( ut henc!lP:). introduced a 1ncnsurc such aR i~li _'. I rnig·bt refer to a c<JuplP of fJ1 "echeH made> in tltis Chamber in 191G. On 23rd .lugnst. 1~10, the prment .ron. member for Smdh Bri banc, l\11·. Fen·wks, n1ado uso of thf ..;c vlords-

" Later on it will be; seen that this

Mr. Maxwell.J

SG Re1'ision of Standmr; Orders. [_\SSEMBLY.] Revision of Standinu Ordm·s.

propmc.tl has b'.,c:n introducf'd to pluy into the hands cf tho Govc nniCnt-that 1t has heen iHtrodncod in order io facilitatQ the pa -;i nv, of e.-·rtain nwasurP::.> with tho aid of dJl~ ~~t'rond edition of the gug. in pr0fcn:ncc~ to thP old-f2~hionC'<.l gag·."

That is nndouhkdl:v· the position \1 c find om·. :--clvr-; 1n to-ujght. On that or·ca:::ion the hon. IJlf'lll[w .• : for Qn(~(~lll<Jn, :Ylr. \Vinstanley, took np a s:·nsibk '"' .! r<OasollablG attitude. \Vhy do thf~Y th~uk, bt'cau:~e tlH'Y arc ~upporting a t;on'l'llnwn1 nmY, that they should adopt a. difft'rcnt attitucl{• '! T11n GovernHH nt are in a ·xninoriJr so fn1· ,1s the number of p]cctoJ\3 i~ l:onccrH~'L1. nud htJll. 111·-~mber:~ opposite should ntke up tlH~ ~<' n:c' attjtnrle that they did jy1 1910. This is what the hon. n101nber fo1· Oueonton :-;;1.jd on page 539 Df '' Jiansurd'' for 1910--

"\\'imtr·v,_t. rnon1bcr:-:; opposite 1nay think about it, the duty of thL Oppooition is to look aftr2r the rights and privileges of thi~ ITouf'e, and while there tnay not ;:;;eeu1 any Dl'CL'.s"ity at the pre':ent tin1c for introducing tbis qu{ 'ltion, whC'n the:y arc pla<·t·d in tlw :'ltanding Ordrrs we want to know that tbe liberties and priYilf)ges which ~-ou, Sir, clai1n for this IIouse at ?-ho eoHunonceincut of each Parliarnm1t, an_~ uot iufringed or curt::tiled. There is 1101! a 1nernbcor on this side who i·-._; dPsir­ous of wasting the time of the Hous", but we think it is our duty and privilege to """ thitt opportunity is given for a. full and freo discussion on every n1easuro that conws bc·foro us, and we want to be quite sure that, not only on ordinary occasions but on extraordinarv occasions, these oppm·tunitics will not 'tx, so curtailed that therl' ,,-ill not be free di":us:,ion for eyery 1ne1nber." ~

That 'ums up the situation now. The hon. gentleman should bitck up thitt attitude by supporting the arnend1nent on this occasion. Tt does not make anv differ<ence because thcv l1appru to ho sitting "on th{~ Governn1ent sid~,:. \ll repre,.ontatives of the pE:oplc should object

to ;tny curtailment of the privil<eges of hon. ll1ClnbPrs. ] t s:C'C'ms to luB that In-c1nbcrs opposite ar<' only consistent in their incon· sistenc;.·. 'I' he hen. member for \V arwick pointed out to-night that, if all hoH. membem spoke. tlwy could only speak for fifteen minutes <m :.;uch an imporb.nt subject as the Adrlrc's in Reply. ·we had one hon. member opposit<' l'irlieulinp- the Address in Reply. l!, is not dignified to take up a position like that. l-In ls Y"'\Don:::ihlf' to his O\vn e]crtnrf'. and wo arc rrcponsibk to our electors. I dairr1 n1~· tight;-;, .as a !ne-rnbce, to pnt 1ny viHYS bdnrc· thi,: Houon.

ThTr. Cmu:·s: Th0 views of the Employers' Ft:dPratiorJ.

l\Ir. ::\r !\X\\"ELI--~: rrho hon. Dlumbcr does not 1nind belonging tD nn 0n1plo:vecs, ff'dorn­t.iolJ. bu~. he d '!Jl('· to n1, the• right to belong to nn f'lllplor(\[':;;' r(~drra6on. rrhe hon. gentle­man i'l inconsistem. In 1910 he wantod to do o..Hll' thiiJ£!". and 11ow hr~ \\ nnl--; to do son1e­thin.~ f{1r·~·!'(•n~. Jf (·VI'.~ tllL'rc '~ ("' a. tinto ;,vhen th{' right.; tnd plivileg-(", of hon. mmn­her. sho-,ld not bee curtail· d, it is now. bc­cDn·,c ·. e lu.H-\.."' only onP llou,·t·. \Vhnt <OCCUlTed ,··1H n the~ P.rnrn:iC'r \YH·, sticking up fnr i hP ri,~h:-.; t 11d nrivilC'o·, s of ITH''' 1hers in 1.913? \Vh~\ t 1!c P1 t;rnier ~~·a:::. ·• llall~;d" .and turrwd nuf of tlh, liousn for hYent.y-four

fJfr. MnTwel!.

hours. lt. will !JG found on pago 115 ot •· I-la,lh<U(fl fol' that veal'. I do not rogarrl jt as u black ntal'k a~gainst any rnan to bt·• •· nan1ecr' fol' : tic~cing up for tlH: righLi n.nd p~·iYilc(;es of others.

-::\-fr. =.\IoHG.\X: lh~ ]ws tn1·11cd out hon. mcm!Jc1 for much le· s than that.

::VIr. MA:S:\YELL: :!';ow lw wauts to p•·event. us h·orn enjoying· the prlYiJcg·es that ho wa~. Hrrhting for \VlH'n he• \vas ·' lHLD:1-cd" a.nd t'~rnccl out. I will Yotc fo1· tho arnc·ndment, nlthoup;h I do not bclie,·e in any J·cs;trictions <1t all-Pn:n a rc"trictioa of nino day . Free~ (lOlil of spr~cub 1~ dnD to e\~C'ry Britishcr~ and jq ('Y· 1'" Brlti~h Parliarnr IlL I hope tht_;..· Prcmie~ '' i] I rr_· ,-lcw tlH' J)Osit:ion, and reulise 1Hn;,· intJHIJ'tnnt f·hi."~ tnatt<'l' j~. I 1n~prcs:-:. 11pon him tho dc~-"in:.bilit.v of a conl]n'omise on th' m;tttcr. The hon.' momlwr for South t~risbrtnc sni(l that there ·was lot of todiou~ J'C~p~ t.itiou vdlcn unlir.nited tirne wa ,, allowed. That i~ a direct insult to tho Sp,,aker and the Chail'luan of Corrur1itt.·~'C'S, b~'caus• they haYe t11P ri!dL tJ pull up any hon. gcntLm1RT.i who indnL', s in tedious repetition. We do not a~k fo1· thj", .Hs a cornplinu~nt. hut as right.

\Ir. W ,\RHE':" (.Hm·rv,,,&rz}: The Govern. ment M<' tr~cing to fritter away the freedom of this Honsc. The ,\ddrC'ss in Reply 1& an· important mutter, and I do not think that; ~\'en nlno da:vs arr sufficient. \Ve can refer i'o 1nanv 1naitors concerning onr electorates on th(' 'Adchms in Heply. For instance, if something is wrong with a school which inter­fen' with the he:dth of the chil<1rcu, we can brinv; it up on the Address in fl:cply, when "·0 n1in·ht othenYisf' hn,ve to wa1t for &.)ffit

riuH~ i;-efore vve could bring it before the llon.,e. I will giYc just one lnstance. I had a ciese which I intcnderl to bring before the Hou'o on the Add re ss in Reply of a sch{){)l ln rnv ch,r·tol·ato "\VhPrc tht:.• c·hildren a1·e beinP' ,,dnr~tcd in a bad way.

The 'l'E~v1POH \RY CH \IRMAN: Order! J hope thP hou. memlH•r will doa1 with th~~ a rnendn1cnL.

'\Ir. \V.\RREX: I mr gh·ino: :m imtaneP· of what mm hP brought forward on tlw Ad,dress in Replv. Those urgent thing& can !Jr usofuliy <liscus?ed on it. We sat fortv da.vs last ROSf.::ion, and for cv·cry day WC sat V.:C had the "gag" applied, and thl!-t at the hands of v. hat is called a democratw Uow•rnrnent. If these things arc going to r:ontimw, and we are to .be gra~ual~y deprivnd qf our rights,. \VP; \Vlll Sf?Oll ~Je 1n

the position thP)' arc• m m Hus~m J·:;-d>:-Y· '.l'hat is nnt the Australian or the old LntlSh spirit that WP lJoast: a.lJOHt, hut th.o n:raduuJ tightening of the reins of a dnpohc Go-..:eri_J­nlPnt in the nan10 of di'mocl·acy, ~~nd 1t IS linw n solid nrotest "'Y?..:::. 1nade. "\Vc knov'i~' that this i< 'tlone to shorten tho susion. To-da;.r tltf' bir.rg-{ -.t t;ouL10·, fncc this Goy(q·n­rrlC'nt that fact~'·"finv CioY0rnnwnt in the "\\·orld, and vet w ·' took ±;soo a year fu;· forty days' aC'tnRl "1': ork In :-;t vcar. lt is a dif'grn ce for rc·,ponsiblc i\IinistPr~ to ask 11~ to rcclnc~' tho~(· iol'tv daYs. It j~ 11ot <l fair de:tl. ancf it i.: al~.o 'n IJ ofnt"lv Hselc~ ..,, rl'borc i::> not an hon. nwmbcr on either side v. ho will deny th"t tb" busilkS3 of the countl'y should bP procc,,dcd with. Why, then, wore '-C no!' , ,cllcd together a month 3go '? Then we C{mld hav·(, had th" Address iu Hcp1y debate all fiHi:-hf'd bv 1JO"'V. It is a disgTae(_~ to ·,necr a.t iL \V" nrc suppos•:d to bo leading the

l6 JULY.)

;:eop1~~ atul Px 1n·e~sing the opinions of the a iHl t;:w fH'ople arc interested in thi~

t', and ar<~ anxiou::; to SQO what is going h> "''""' ollt of it. \Ye look upon the Addrc··> in H1:p!~· t:ot n~ lip loyalt:y bnt a,~ a \"Pl'Y imponrud; n:t:ttcr; and, if n1embcrs of the Cha mlx 1' 1 ,~ :ciYL rL vel'y fu,ir allo\va.nce, they onght to lr~ able to put in the whole of tho

jf ne ·1 ::-ary. \YlF:n a, 1nan fails in his to come hero and do tho work of govern­

nJCn, h" ~hould .0:0 out and make room for che. The Uovornrnont are doing \YL)llg in this proposal; it is only

a propt>r thing· that we should go more dcr pl,7 into all matters that we wish to discnss. \Ye shouia not think it 1Yonderful to put; in fnl'tv da.J$ in legislating for an lmpnl'l;ant f-)h1tc like this. I cannot undPl'­stand w],at the rPason for this proposal can hu. nnk :.: the Govcrn1nent are afraid of defeat. and wish to push on as quickly as pos·,;hlc and f· .. tvc their skins, I hope tho Prcillit"' will not compromise. There is no such thin&!' as con1promise in such a matter <b this. l f he is fair, he will agree to nine dP \·.·: <J.;;; little enough, and the nutn \vho does not ta kc adva nbge of his right to address this Ho1l'" and the country on the Address in Rq,ly-if thoro is rwcd for him to do so-­jc; wron.-;;1~,· rni~sing an opportunity.

It has boen seid that in a previous session we did not ha''" an Address in Heply, and t.hat otht•r Parliaments do not have it. \Vc are a. tl1inking people here, and it is only right that we c;honld have some ":1Y in the mattcr. Tlw hon. member for South Bris­bane' ~u ,.,;;; 1-lutt \VC are not sincere because we Hay wo shall soon be over on the other side. Ho i• lookirw: at the matter through his own spectacles. and not through the spcctaclco3 of hom··;tv. W 0 are pleading, not for the Oppo­>5ilit>'' of to-do:v, but for,the principle for the precPnt; n nd for the future.

HoNOI'R\BLE ~IE:;!BERS: Ht·ar, hear!

l'vh. BRE'\'-:A~ (TootCooml!a): I think the old ick:t nndPrlying the Addr0ss in Reply must; hrwo been something like this-that tlw R;lls w<'re not pl'f'\)rtred for presentation to Parliallwnt. and the Address in Reply was ,],-, . ..., o. ,jn]kino; hors<> to em1blo Ministers to got tlw;r work ready. But this '\'Iinistry arC' an <-lDtivc body, 'vith their work 'volt 1n harttl, u ntl there is no nect~-:sity to V\'as.te the t;'TIC' of the House by pnpetnating tho pr:1 t ,_ice nf n Ion!~ de bat<; on th0_ A.(lch~c.;·s in Rcph-. "' to tlw qupshon of lmutahon :'f '.'ll''"dlf'~1. no 1nnn on this fiido stands for 1L '~'hcd wo do stand fm· is the doing away ,viih ,,h«olnto \Ya.:;;1e of t-im(' on n1otion~ th~+ c]o nnt ( "'•llDt. rrh0 bw:;lness of thP 1-fonSP JR

bf'irq.;· pn:;;ll('d on: +-here is no limita.tio.n a~ou~ that at alL Roll. mcmbc•l'S opnos1!e "alk abont t.he \cldre~.:; in R0plv n:4 evtdencn;-g on.r

'1ovak . Y> e know tl•at ''hen the Brl! £01· t1 1~ nl1r,l:iinn of thn Connc_il \Y}IS p.~sscd and l,<>nt hon1a to the King 111 Conne1l_, nnd. a lu·tit-ion \\":tS -0nt }JO}'YlP .. too, prayu1~ .h1n1 T'.lr r1 :) ··\t tn the D11l, ln:3 tH_·~cJ~t "\Vflc' ~~1Ye;1 .ulld m1;· lo·.n,Hy \Vas take.n !or g:r~n~~a. (Oppr- ,;1-\lll 1<J1Hrht0r.i I an1 JUst po1nt1~1.~; out t!Pt rf·p lo·,-ali.v. of hon. me;n?ers oppoSJto wa" ahcdutP!:· domed by the Xmg.

Th., T1•~'1 pnn \RY CHAIRMA:--T: Order! On!('r! I ad~ th0 hou. Ulmnhc1· lo deal \vith the anlPndn1Pr!t.

:\lr. BREXNA=": I contend that the limi­tation is no restriction at all on the liberty of hnn. nH'nlbers, beeauso there has only been " "''"to of time. The year before !act we had no Acldrc•s in Reply, and the year beforo that the debate last.cd only three day,., aud that withont an,· rc,trielion at alL Thoro ha' 0 lH"nll n nrncrotls occasious in days qon,,_ lr when th•' dobat'l did not last three days, a(ul I saY that, if the Opposition put their hc"'t bpC'a.kprs forward for tvv-o days. and the Uovc·rnn1unt put their lwst speaket·s forv1.7 ard for two days--

An 0PP08TTIOX }1E~IBEH : You "·ould not be c .. ' lleLl upon.

1-h. BREKK.\N: I arn not Yain enough to iruagi11o J-hat f am one of tho hc~t. I-Iuw

nice' it would be for the Hous,·. f9.30 p.m.] anJ what pleaoant rPading it

would make for those ,,-ho follo;-v '· IIanAard," if only thn be~:t, :3peakers wc,rP put forward on both side; to spc•ak on the A<ldl'e% in Reply !

:\Ir. ELPHINSTONE (Oxlcy): On a pnc­Yiou:;; occasion in a forrncr se~·~ion I think I haYo ]pen g·uilty-if I may oo term it.--of ha Ying ~aid that thcrt' wa~ a f_:oo.d deal . of time ~mstcd on this Address in R<ply.

The PRniTEP.: I r<"tlly think you inspired this altcra.tion.

:\Ir. ELPHINSTONE: I am glad if I hav•, proYidcd some inspiration for the hon, gentle­man. If the hon. gt'!ltlcmun listened to ":'o HlOYn fn-•quently he would rnako fewer ~nls­wkes. 'l\1 <'Ut this debate ·down to four aa.y~ "·ould bn harsh troatnwnt, which i~ q~i:o ll1 mece"san, If the P1·emier had applOac,w<l this matte'r in a more reac.onable spir!t,. l b<•lieve he \\·ould have found the Opp?sitJOn ,dad to meet him, because they aro JUSt '" ;;.Hxlous to tlYoid wasting· tin1o in the conduct of the basin"" of the House <LS he is.

Tlw l'RE:IJTER: \Ve yiPld,•d one day to tlw ( lppoi'ition.

Mr. ELPHI:-\8TONE: Th., hon. :c;entler;,:m1 put down three, expecting and prepared to give four-like most people do. when bal'gaining. ~ow. 'vithout . ~he ~hghte~t d<'sirc to m0ct the OppositiOn 111 tlu;; l'C; sonablo r~ql:cst, th(~ hon .. gentleman intend,; to bludgeon tlwoug h tins four"c~ay limitation. It is indicative of a process whr.ch i~ .u;radua lly b0ing· introduced in~o Par!la­l11H1T. \Yh<'n one sec'·· government b~HH~ e:1n·i0r1 on by regulation. .;1.nd t!te ltPt~~ '' Fnfor(·~r-Pn JI:-xpcnditnr41 " appcanng YU'Y Ln·o·cb· in their brrlnnee-~lH~nt.-_;, it s~O\Y-..:. clear.~y t1u~ ibo goY<.•rnnwnt of thi~ {;Ountr~.' 1s pa ~"'-1no· fnnn thP reprc ,,en1-atiYr::. of t.llt~ pcop_ln a~:::rnblcd ht•rc antl i'· hL>ing r :n~c:•ntrat~d 111

tho hanch of a few pooplc. Ot late. 1hos" fe,·, ·wopk haye be0,1 whittle.] down ouc by tf!lc·. ··Lle 1nan and another 1<::-:,xing the- Trea­sun. \H"llCht•·.,, ur:til ~,~ o haY(' onu gcntlc:t1lan Jofi~ wh<J io rcallv tlw mouthpiec<' and th·~· ~l.mnincdiu,~ facto~ in thn wholP of Ln.bonr , >~lt l l a!Ht .~~oYct:•ntnt·nt at -Hli' prc,~cn: dH''-'

Tlte 'J'TOfPOHARY CIL\IIDIA~: 0:~1:;~· \Y!l! tlv~ hon. Jncn1br•l' cnniH'{' bts lCLJ..-,._ .r\.

with the <uncndmcnt ·~

l\11. ELPHI~:-\TON'E: W' ."c·c how o11< !],t t 1tlC>:rrlcUl ha:; bPen di-.nosr·d ()f roceEtJy by bein-: fount1 a po:_ition ln London as Agent-

ill r. F:!plri nstrme 1

:'38 Revi,iol, of Stan<FilrJ Ordus. [ASSEMBLY.] Revision of Standing Orders.

C0n' ml. i":ow we spe the whole o£ the :.1;ovennncnt t: thi.;.: country conccntratr•d in thP lwnds of Olle g-entletna.n, who i~ feally tlw '•end of tlhJ fnture Communistic S'tnte of Qu.t~Pnslnnd.

Tlw TEMPORARY C1LUHM ,\l'\ : (;,cl er!

}lr. ELPIHNSTONE: I will not disobey yuue call to crder, lVIr. Chairn1an, but I can ('JllnPrt nJ.Y n.~1narks lncidJy with thr", point

if1nc, and t'ay that on1· privilPgcs in the ll'' ~.iun of 1ne~bnrp~ o£ 12;rea.t unportance

~ll'f~ gradtudly bein~ 1shittled a\vny until we are reall:v facing n sj ,.nation whore o.H~ man is controlling the dcsiinics of this State. I

rgue, th~)r~fore, that for the good of this ;Stato rtnd for thn rr tcntio11 ot 1:_L~mocrat1e <,_,rd:ro1, :t 1: highl,-'· Ik,:C'""ary that Luch nlern­b r sht1ulcl oiee hi pro1~: ~'t at thi~ lUlncct~s-,l.ry h:taitatioL. \VP quite n~~ree i.hnt t.he

'.irnr~ of the ~ Lould 21oL be wasted. •It .. ·lwt thi:-; llrnitation

,,nty hours will bP OUi.' opinion· 011

The cJ, b11tt• as the hon.

,t~ kcl. 'hould foJ.' ~.llnish'1'S to

of hon. mc~:mbcl'~ lH' 1H c'H ") ~()

is quite u.·:i-l'C·.J onable. ~,cnr ou tl1i3 point, he

tHl t'"' :::t?\J rre::.1:...C'i' slttin~"J on the .t', b<:'nch'--'S tron1 :penkin·; 011 the

Ht:ply, <: ,Jd give the Opposjtion of r-vd.iling t.h,"'nlsclYes Df the \V'"-ithout any condeccn·-ion:

H' r.n <JPPl"'al to l'Oi>nn~if an to rC:<i:::Oil.. i· of n.nY use in thL'!!J days

put it to tlH~ Prcrnicr' tha ~ there is roorn ;or Cc)l11prcrnisc in this nwJtrr. :Four days i8 far too little. Son1e rnay argue that nine days j,,, too lon~_(. LPt the hon. g~~ntlenH1n meet tlw situation h:df way and ~how, at the in, ~1 ption of thi~; irnportant so~sion. that t.hore i~ L--.1ug int1·cduu:d ttn .air of rcasonabloucss r.o which t'w Opposition ,, ill readily respond.

i'vh. ED\YARDS (TrmrmrJo): In supporting· tho umcrHhneut) I think tb:ro is one point that ha< bN'n overlooked bv most of the p 'akero. \Yhon the Gov0rnment go into

:recess for rnany months, hon. members travel through various parts of the State. To my mind, the argument o£ the hon. mnmber for Toowoomba was a foolish one. Each repre­eentativc has <lifferont interests to represent, If the Govcnm,_nt arc honest and sincerely desirous of doing thei1 be,.t for this country, : l• _- ,: should be only too pl•'ascd, 11fter sub­mit,ting their programme, to lieten to tho .<.ugun1cntc;:_ oi rnr-,n representing the various intPreJts of the State. In the progre,mme n:cently :--ubw.itted there are 1naiJ}7 things which interc4 the primary producN that should be discus,ed from every point by members of the Opposition and listened to ~~n:fully hy the Govprnnwnt, so tha+ they

,,-ill b~ able to legislate intelligently in the :tni:ercsts of the St tto. That is ;a, very stroilg roumn why this limitation should not be ·mplved. Proof has been furnished to-night t_h,t hon. mcu'b"rs on the other si<h of the i Iou.se ~·<)D10 :vear-s ago stood up for their

.i!.igl :· .. nnd prjyill'ges jus.t as \VC on this side are dojng tu-night. Fiow they ca.n vote <'tgaln3t thi:::; a1n0~ clmcnt beat. n1e. In th~· intPr'C·· :•:; of the State, and in the interc-;ts of ?air play and o£ honest government, the Premier wonkl do '\',ell to accept the amend-3:ncnt.

[M'r. Elphinstone.

QuosiioH-That the word proposed to be omitted stand part of the quc,,tion-put; anJ the Committee diYided:-

Ans, 36. 1\I T. Bn.r bL'r

., 1krtn1m Ih .. nnan nulL.!Ck Uollin1S Conroy Coop('r, F. A. Couper, \Y. Covn<' J)· •• h Dnnstau Fcrri. ks I1'olev Fe niP Cl!tlay !J ulic 1

{; ll'{~. (:Jl

l::iartley Tfilers: 31r. F. ;'t.

51e. ATJPd Ji:trnl'S, G,

, Harucs, ·w. H. , JkblJington

l1eil J1r~H(1 Cattl·rmull Clnvton Cos'tdlo De \con Etl\v, rds Elphi1·...;+onc F·Jetchcr Frv Gr'een

, ,Tones, .J. Kerr

.J.lr. Hnxham , ,J ones, A . • f.

Kirwau Land Lar<;ombe 1\lu....:ormack }lullan Pay ne l'L•'lliC

Hiordan Hy:i.ll S1;1ith .'"'tOIJford Theodorc -, '<>ir \Velling-tou y,-il:-,011

, \Yinst...~..nlcy

Cooper u.nd .!'.lr. .Fen·ie1:t::.

:Jlr. Ki! Logan :HacgTI. ,.~-r )la:oveu ~; Loore

~\'>"'tYnc

Tay for Yo;·vll:s Walker \\'arren

.r. n. o. T.K

'l'ellers: }IL Kcrr and Mr. S.z?:r.

Iicrolved in the uegative.

:Ylr. VOWL1~S: I have another a!nc!1dment hl rnovc. I would like to get an rntunat1on from the Premier as to whether there is any prospect of a compromise between four day•" and nine clays. •

The PRE>!IER: A compromise is a very >Jad thing.

J:vir. VO\YLES: I do not want to move an amcndmciJt for seven days, then one for six davs, and unother for five days, and I wo~ld !ik'e to get some indication from the P1·emier -as to whether lw would agree to a oom­proinise.

'I'ho PREMIER: No, I am afraid it would not b" e.clvisable.

Original question put and passed.

The PRE11IER: I beg to move-" That tlw amendment of Standing

Order No. 17-' Address prescwted by Jir. ,._')'pra~·rr '-be agreed to.':

Quest ion put and passed.

The PRJ111IER : I beg to move-

" That the following- new Standing Order-· Strtnriiny OrdtTS Cutnmittcc'-to follow Standing Order No. 20-

A Co1nn11ttee consisting of six mem­bers in addition to Mr. Speaker, who shall bo a member ex officio, to be called the Standing Orders Committee, shall be appointed at the commencement of each sf',sion, and tho functions of such Committee shall not cease until their successors are appointed.

The Standing Orders Committee shaH prc,cribe the arrangemonto and proro-

Reo"ision of Standiny 01 ders. [6 JULY.] Revision of Standing Orde1'8.

gation of Parliament, which arrange­ments it shall be the duty" of the S.·l'­geant-ar,-Anns to carry into effect undPr the directions of Mr. Speaker-

be agreed to.'' Question put and pass0d.

The PREMIER: I beg to moye-" That the arnenclrncnh to Standinf!

Orders :'\os. 52, 57, 21, and 93-' .V u,io1'ih Lt<n·c in lieu oi Dnu.,~.imrn':~ Leave'~ be agreed to.:'

Question pnt antl passed.

'l'hc PREJ\riER : I lwg to mon·--" That- the umendnwnt to Shmliwr

Ordei· -:\o. 107-'Timc T.im;t u; SpGechr._; )---be agreed to."

Qucotion pul and pa.' eel.

~.rho 1?RE~;IIER: I l;('P: to :no\~(e--

" That 11·1p ::unnrnln1Pnt of Standiug Ordr>r 1\'"o. 140--" Jl o+fon ;,!11/f br'' 1nad[ That tin fl'UC:Jtion hr.: 101 put '-be· agreed i·o .. ,

Mr. VO\YLEc;: 1'1Hler the <·xisting· Stanii· lng Ordt'l's it is, ar.d has bren. the privilc~~)·t· ~Jf ordinar,\· Jl!t'i~ll r:-; on tllls slck {)f th • ChandJer to l!!O\ e--·· Thn.t t.lu· qU{'~t.iun bt• HO\'<' !Jut.~' If the ~pcak('r u!· the• Chairn1a11 n£ ConllnittPl·· con..-idt r.':i that thL', n1attor lw:; ·been ~ nfiiclcllt i,v debated, lw \"\ill put the O:lU.Cstion ac(·twdingly.

i\Ir. COLLIXS: You mov:.d--" That. the qtw­tio·1 be now put "~this aft<'rnoon.

Mr. VO\\'LES : I mon·d it this aftomoo'l 1 ~xprcs'dy for the purpo.st: of nty argurnent. to·night. Jt is proposed lo limit that priYi-1cge, :.>~Jd to deprive ordj nary n1c1nbers of it, ancl the only person in the fttturo who will have a ri;,-ht to move "That the question be now put " will be the Premier or the Mini· ter in charge of a Bill. I claim that there are oeca~ions-and this afternoon was an cx~mpJP--"\\·hen a perc,on in authoritv Oll the Opposition side of the Ho w-e sh"ould have tho ~Jarrlf' privilcgr- a:; illC Prernicr or :\t!inist0r in charge of the business. It an amendment direc·ted from this side of the House is being obstructed, as an amendment was being obi;tructcd and talked out. thrs a.f~ernoon. I say that the leader of the Oppo­.oltiOn-not an ordinary member-should ban' tho sar:10 right as a pc1·son ou thL Govern· ment srde to move-" Tha-t the question be now put."

'fhe lio~rE SErRETARY: You would not move it without having a reasonable chance of carrying it, would you?

Mr. VOWLF.S: The Govermnont might .hold up the business on account of some of their supporters being away or for othe1· rca2ons.

The PRnrmR: Does the hon. member sug­gest that the lnader of t:ho Opposition should have that right on privat<J members' dav •mly? · "

Mr. VO\VLES: No; on all occasions. The PREMIER: That would be absurd.

Mr. YO\VLES: It would not be absurd. "fhe Minietc1· must have thirtv mcmb0rs behind bim bcforc he can move_:_" That the quc'"ion be now pnt." I had thirty mem­bers behind rne this a-fternoon. There was a s-illy motion brought forward in this Chambrr this aftU"noon by the hon. member for Roekha111pton, and a .;econder could not bo founcl, and, when the hon. membor who

mo·; '"l the motion wanted an extension of time robodv oukl move it for him. We brought for~·ard an amendment, but, because it did not suit the hon. member's argument ur electioneering intentions, his friends came to the rescue and talked the amendment out. Why should that be "''? "' e were ;imply going to sa vo the time of the House by pre­ventlng ob~;trncEon g-ojng on. Tho obstruc­tion was very patent to anybody present. La:•t vcar I think the hon. member for Port CurL!-~ cxcrcj;.cd the rirrht of 1noYing- ('That the question bo now pu'f," and the Chairman <Jr Hpoakr•r, vd1ichevot it w.ls, arnorted the motion. I rcmembPr the hon. member for Toombul <Sorno years ago rnoving-" That the {(Ur-•-t.ion be now put." lie \vas a private nlPUJbcr, and y<. 1

, thr~ n1otion 1va.s acceptet-11. h.v the bpPakcr. The CoYC'rnn1c:1t no\II pro­po:-:n to t.akc that t"if,.:Jt a1 ay.

hon. member is of the St•1.nding

let it staml as it

dealing with the Df" thj·~ gives rn.e

infol'm:ltlon tv a v:1il mvsclf of the desire of

the arncndmf:nt. Hw •• gc1g" \Va~ applied very \Y c werrc told thi. afternoon

for fort da ·:1. and that the­.. p;:1g" \Va~ a.r i)Eoc.l every c day. On look­in" the matter un I find that that is not qtlitO f'Orrcct, r:;:;: ... the :; gag" was applied forty-ono tirw>s. The aJtonishing- thing is. lh .. L when von analvso the applications of the "gag,"" yu1 will ilnd it \\ ao applied fortv-one tinlC'', and on ninctePn occasions ther"o wa.s no debate at all. On four occa­sions I was the only member of the Opposi­tion who was allowed to speak. On five occasions two members of the Opposition ·.ere giv0n the !>riviloge of speaking. and t.h" root of the Opposition wore disfranchised. On t.hr-cP ocnrr~.ions thrc0 n10rnbPrs were. allowed to speak; on two occasions four members were ailowed to speak; on two­occasions fivo mernbers were allo\vcd to sneak: on five occasions six rnmnbers were allowed to speak ; on three occasions eight members were allowed to speak; and on one occasion eleven members were allowed to sp(;ak. That was tl'e "ay in which the " gag " was applied forty-one times.

Hon. \V. BrmTRA>I: After a very full debate on the sccrmd reading of Bills.

iVh. VOWLES : On manv occasions mem­bers wore not allowed to move a.mcndments.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: I would remind the leader of the Opposition Lhat the cleb1to is not a dcb·•te on the g{-,ncral qucslion of the ';.£rag." It is a. debate on the Ollf'" tion of w.h<'thcr only the Prcrc1ier or anothm· 1\Iinie-ter shall be allowed L' rnovo the n gag."

:Mr. VOvVLES ; I do not wish to waste t.he time of •he Chamber over the business. W>} are dealing· wiJ-h the Ollfl C)llCStion. rfhp other one is established. nnd it is not the fa.rt of its lwin" Psta blished that we are obiPrting to, tut the way in which it i• apnlied.

'rhe PREMIER: Established by the· Kidston Govern1ncnt.

Mr. VO\VJ,ES: Yes, and ou every pre­vious occasion it was carried out equitably

JY!.r. Vowles.]

90 Revi.1ion of Standing O·rders. [ASSEMBLY.] Revi"'"" rif S'tamF,,;f 0MCJ'8.

by the Kidston Government. The astonish­ing thing to rno is that hon. members oppo­site do not :>sscrt their individuality, and, when an injustice is beiEg inflicted on the Opposition, they have not the manliness to stand up and say so. I remember in 1912, when I was sitting on the other side, Mr. Denha.m asked the· Speaker to apply the ·' gag " to the hon. gentleman and others who wore ovc1· here, and I was one of those who got up nnd walked ont of the Cham­ber and .did not votn for it.

:Vir. 'I'AYLOH: I am,.,., .. _. ""'ry T cannot aeccpt tltl) :·mg·g·e~6on) but ·r ·hop~} tlt0 hon. g-<'ntl{'Innn 9 Vvi1l acu:pt the· ~u!.!:~·,{~"'tion of thP karlcr of the Opposition.

Tho Ho :I< F. SECRETARY: A 11 thcc<c St.andin;.: OrdC'rs are bus('d on n·;1jorif.v l'Hl(~. Surr\y :·ou rccogni-~o that"!

The HOii!E SECRETAHY: It went on just the ~a me.

Mr. VOWLES: It does not matter whether it went on or not. \Ve showed the spirit of fair play that was in ns. and I luwe never ,;een that spirit a£ fair play exhibited by mem­hers sitting on the Govcrnnwut side, bec.a.use they are lilw D lot of dumb, clrinm <. ,1ttle, and -p·hcro thc!r JeadPJ'S direct. awav thev go. There was ono man w-ho stoocl U:'p as 'a matter of principle. That was the hon. mem­ber for Fitnoy. On one occasion he st0od up and said, ''No, I am not going to aJlow the ' gag' to be applied." But he has slipped since then, Ol', at any rate, he ha· departed from his orig-inal practice, anrl \YO found him among- the dumb, ch-i,-en <attic on the £.arty­one occasions wlwn the ''gag" was applied last session. I would like to remind the Premier that certain letters appeared in th<· Press on the su1jeet of tho "gag," and he r<'plied to them, and I take this opportunity of saying that the reply which· he gave to the Press was not in accordance with fact.

The TEMPORAEY CHAIR:YL\.N: Order !

Mr. VOWLES: I have the facts hero to prove it.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order!

Mr. VOWLES: They appeared in the Press, and they have never been refuted.

Mr. MORGAN (M milia): I would like to ask your ruling, ::\Ir. Polloek, as to whether there is an:ything to prevPnt mo from moving a further amendment in the cltanding Order if this umendrncnt is carried? ,

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: No.

Mr. TAYLOR (Windsor): I would like to say that I nm quite in accord with the remarks of the le:tdcr of thP Opposition. It does not matter r<'ally wh(,ther the PrPmier or l\'Iinister in charge of a Bill n1ovcs­" That the question be now put"-bocauso it re>ots with the Speaker or the Chairman of Committees whether it shall be put or not. He really decide,, whether the mattot· has heen sufliei{)ntly debated or not, and, there­fore, l fail_ to. eee whore thcr0 is any danger, or a.ny pr1nc1pl{~ that thl' Govt'rnrnent aro departing from, in allowing the privilege of moving-" That the question bo now pnt"­to bP excreisPd by the leader of the Opposi­tion. Snrcly i·he Opposil-ion havP some right, and Ronw prlvilegT'' in this liou:::e, and they Hho,dd cPriainhr be con-.ldcrccl in a matter on eh as i·hi,. The fact of tlw le' d<'r of t,hc Opp( .ition lnov)ng it do0~ not rcn.lJ:.' n1Pan that t~1P "!!,<'. " "111 h0 ::tppJied. Tlwt being

,, ,v:1 lt. ~· n~ the· Go, '""'nlrrlf'llt [] fraid of? rrh., n•rwc t of tlw lclld<'r of tlw Opposition IS a Y0t r!'a··mnb!t:' onr. i11Icl OlV~ that tho CoYC'rnnlPnt :-::h~)u1d cnnsjdcr fayourably.

:Yir. T \ YLOH: I know thilt. 'J'hc Hmm Sa'RET,\llY: \\'lwr ;, thr- good of

:Vh. TAYLOH: B'lt we did '""'reisr· it. \Vo {'XPt'eised ]i ;.;E'Y01'al i,1,ne--: dm·incr la._,t so·,JSiou~. and 1ve kept you 11Dpp:nr· al! _Pight, an.d f hope ,,-e will keep you hoppHlf all mght fiOl11C tin10 dnri.no· thlc.:. ::0:(" ioll. I support the~ rrcqu(',,t of tlw [c':'aclcr of th, Opposition, anri hope th,It the GO\~cmm: e1t "·dl WJthrlntw tlw aincndn1('Ilt.

The I'RE:\'IIER: It io wc-Q;c,ied that I might withdraw tlw am<'nrl'lWIJt an<l allow the S~aiHJin9- Order to <:.tnnd as at prcscnL If hon. mLrr;bC'l's arc afruid of c-urtailment. with tlw permissir n of thP Committee I will withdnnr the an1mHJn1cnt.

:VIr. ·vowLi.S: I <lgr('f~ h1 t-hnt. Amendment, by ll'ave, withdrawn.

Mr. NIORGA:'>i: I hnvP all nmondrncnt r" n10\'0 in StanJing· 01·(kv Xo. 140.

The PnE1!IE.H: It is not now before , the Committe", as [ have withdra•.m my amenthnent,

The TEMPORARY CH.\IlUL\N: Wh.en I ruled that the hon. mcmlwr had power to move a fnrthcr an1endnwnt. lt wa · on thn und0rstanding that tlw o1'igiwt1 nmendment. would be carried. As ilw nmPnrhwn_t ha., hee11 withdrawn. the Rt ·nr1itu~- On1cr IS not now before the Committee.

[10 p.m.] 'rhe PREMIEH : I bPg to rno\·e-

" That :'ltanding- OrdNs ;\!os. 211, 21B. and 219-' Alcswgc.~ to anrl from Council' -be omitted.''

question put rtlld pa;;sed. The PRF::\IIER: I bc>g- to move-

" That the> am0ndments to Rtandin:~r Ordc>.r No. 240. and Rule of Practice· No. 14 be agwcd to."

Que; lion put and pass( d.

The PREMIER: I beg to move-" That St.andil'g- 01·der :'i"o. 244-' Bill~

nr·our1ht jl'om, Lcqisluti''" Council '-he­omitted."

Qw•.,t;ion pnt and paHcrl.

The PRENJ:IER: I beg to move "That i.hc> amenrlm<'nt of Shnding

Order T•<o. 269-' A m r nrl'n en f.'{ m· Rr(·am­mittal on Tli:nl Rrnd.'ng '-bP ag-roed to.~'

Question pnt and passed. The PRF:;\,HER : I lJf''l to movp-

" rrlwt Joint Standing· Ordt'r ~o. 16--• Titlr of Jl;" '--he trnnsposPd to follow Rtanrlin~ Ordm· 0\'o. 270."

Question put and paS'ctl.

The Pll E'\11 ER : l br.,- to m on-"'Tlwt s;t.ndinv On!·r-; :\os .. 276~-

Thn P: rlf1:~n: v:ill < r>r'(':lt an anv•ndm0nt

• }](7/s ·"' nt tn ( 1ounr ,'I '; 277"·-"- _'{],l[-: re­

fiO'''f''' (/f}}JI Collnr·il ·wi.11t. rnr. ("Jrlmcnts' .~ ""d 27>· ·Ami ,)(lm' nts hy Council to IJ'-' r·on: 'rlt'l'nl '-ho OIUlttcd.n

a11ow1n£; tlE\ 1f H1l'r of t.hP Oppos1tiop. to rnnvc th " 'l•r'' !Jll rnernbt-rs of the Opposi­tion. (Ln u~ ht<'l'.)

[Mr. Vowlcs. Que::;tion 1mt alld passed.

R'~"' ,·ion of Standing Orders. [6 JULY.] "' 'Yl

The PREl\IIER: I beg to move-" rrhat th(-'! an1endn1ents to Standing

Order No. 279-' .1rn,ndrnents proposed hy the Uoccrnor '-be agreed to."

!Juo,tion put aml passed. 'l'lw PREMIER : I beg to move-

" That :Standing Onler No. 280-'Whcn t>]o r_ rnor' ,-; a ntcn:dm cnts aTe agreed to, to ,Jc .~cut to Lcgidatire Oou.ncil '-be 01ni tt('{I."

Question put und passed. The PREMIER : I beg to move-

·' '.l'hnt the amendments to Standing Urdcr I\ o. 230A-' Bills bronq ht ovc1· jro';Jt I) re -·iou.,· Se '3ioru;; ~-be ag~ccd to."

Question put and passed. The PRI:MIEE : I beg to move-

" That the ccmendments to Joint Stand­ing Orders Nos. 12 to 20 (excluding 16 aml 18) be ag-reed to, and that they be transposed tn follow Standina Order No. 280.1." "'

Question put and passed. The PREMIER : I beg to move-

" That the amendments to Standing Ord.~rs Nos. 282 and 283-' Initiation of i'riratc Bills '-be agreed to."

Qucotion put and passed. The PREMIER: I beg to move-

"That t\tanding Orders Nos. 289-Priratc llill8 com-ing from Council,' and

300-' p, n•Lllics, forjeiturcs and fees'-be on1ittcd." '

Question put and passed. The PREMIER , I beg to move-

"That the following nmv Standing OrdcT-' Principal Officer of the House' to follow Standing Order No. 321-bo agreed to."

" 324. The Principal Officer of the Bous" shall be known as ' The Clerk of the Parliament.'"

Question put '"nd passed. 'rho PREMIER : I beg to move-

., That the amendments to Joint Stand~ ing Ord(~1·s Nos. 8-" Joint Co1nrnittees' -and 22-' Clerical En·ors discovered ;,, any JJil! '-be ag1 ed to, and that they b~ tnnspos.Jd to follow Standing Order _'\o. 327."

Question vut and passed.

The PREMIER : I beg to move-" That the amendments to Standing

Order :\os. 328-' Su.<pcnsion of f:>tandinrr Onlr _,.s '-~and 330-' Repeal of Standino Order )-~bo arrcod to."

\] r. ::\WHGAK: I have a great objection to th(" lnst'l'tion of tbP vroJ·(!- "rnnjority of the'' and especially to the omission of the> words " leave shall not be granted if six {nembcrc di.:.sonG thercfron1. ''

'l'hn PHE:UIJ~R: I do not think that tho hon, mPidber ""'~' the full purport of the pro­pos0d am'~Hdtl!L'nt. The part of the Standing­Orders to be amended r. ads-

" But a 1notion h.1Jl not ~!0 n1ade fo ~U'Jlt'Jal or . ..-Ji.,ppusc Vi~ith anv such Rules or u~_·:~ers v:ithout duo no£ ice thereof; 0xccpt b~.v lcuYO of th~~ I I oust". v. hich leave :-.;1 tll not~b0 ~:!:ranted if · i:s: rneTnbeLJ dis~,~·nt ther· frorn.'' .__

The qucJLiorr of \dwther lea~ve shall be granted is to bu tkeided '" ithout amendm• nt 01 de La tu -not tlL, que::;t;nn of thr' suRpcnsion of tho Standin~· 0rL1t)l'~ thCinsolvm.,.

Mr. MORGA'\": That is not the point i wif>h to bring before the Committee. At prmcnt no Standing Order can he wspen<kd without notice being given, if sjx Jnembcr-: object. I say that six members should hav<o the right to objt~L to the suspen,ion of any 8titndinr;· Order· if notic~ ha.s not bel'n given. rrhel'f' iS nothinn· ') preYen( the Govenuncnir at an-.:- tin1c: s.:.n1ply ber::au"'~ they have ,.,. n1ajority, frmn ;:,p1·ing-ing .t :surpri::;o on tht· Opposition. rrh<· Go :·crnnH:nt knoYV bcfort'.. hand what they aro going to do: they movo the suspen~ion c>' the Standin0; Orders and spring it on tbo Oppositioll, "vhu do not kno'·"" what: is going to happen. \Vith the presew protecfion, sl'{ rllC'nlb" ~·;;; of tlw Opposition c!ln delay tho mattl'r for ono d <;.

Tho PRE>ILER: That has alway,; happemi!l' undsr the 8tandins Ordr~rs·, and, when ... t, GovernlYlt'nt hu~ :"!Uhinltt·--tl a. propoc1l of tha-t kind, it lut:-; been uEually ugrc0d to.

Mr. l\10RG.\N: Simply b0causo an agree~ 1nont has generally been :rnn.do between tke I>remier and the leader of the Opposition; but, if this prot ~ction is taken away, th" Premier~ if he S•) de"ir< "• need not consult the leacle!~ of thP Opposition at n11. l-Ie can come into the House and move the suspension of the Standing Ordc'I'S without letting the leader of the Opposition or anyone else know th:~.t }w i:: ~o!ug to do it. Thi~; js most vital, and we should fight it to the bitter ''nd. Uncle<· the present .:lreunlstanc~''S, the Premier. yviH g<'nerally consult tho leader of tlw Oppos1t10n, who. if he thinks it right to do so, will agl'Ge to the Standing Orders being suspended, eo that the business can be procended with forth~~ with; but, if this amendment is made, the leader of the Opposition will hav~ no power. It "\vou1d Le a dangeroud innovation, a.nd would take away from the Opposition the powm· the~· now po',...;ess of preventing tho Premi(-\~. from doing what he likcc with the Standin,:: Ordc rs on the spur of the moment. UndPr the present conditions, the Prmnicr can move the •nP~pcnsion of thn Standing Orders, and the lPader of the> Opposition will ask hirr fol' and obtain information: hut... if tho Prcrni·er ~,) <lc,,ir0~. be c:.u1. und•?r the pro­PO"('cl alteration, nifuse to tliselo~n any infor­nw.tion, and can carr:v the n1otion for sus­rwn~,ion of the Standing Orders with ld, majority.

The PHF.l.[JER: LcrtYo rnnst firc't bl' grant" •1 b ,fore we reach that stage.

]\fr. MOHGAN: Tf the hon gcntlcm"n ulters the Shtnllin~ Ord0r ac; he .dnsires. l\t-• ha' pow~cr to snspcnd tlw :St~'nding Order•, "\vithout notice, b:v a rnotion in th~~ House,. which he can carry with his majority.

'l'hf' Pm:ofl8R: \Vc- have nPYf'r resorted to that on any contentions rna.i.!:Cl",

JYir. ::V10RG \i'~ : rrhc SLtnding Ortif' t';Jac:;;.--

"L\ny cJ thn forcgoinr.r St1.nding Ru}f~~ and (Jrders mav be srispcndcd 01~ di;. prn·~.cd wif1 by tlw House; but a motioR ohall not bo made to suspend or dis­pr'nsr~ with nn.y ~uoh H.ult•s or Orders without noticE~ thereof. except b_y Jcnv'-' of I-Iou~c, \vhich 1r .1\'C r::h;:r.H not he gTn.ntcd if six n1r< .. nbers die.3crt therdrom."

If you dd0tc the word:< rclaLing- to si>. znG11hers tJjs~ontinf~ thr-nJron1, it n1Ci.tnR that i·hn Opposition aro <1t t.he rnercy of ~hE" Premier. \Vu n1av as weB havo no Standmg

Jlr. Morgan.]

Revision of Standing 01'ders. [ASSEMBLY.j

Orders at all if we egr0o to this amend· ment. The Gon'mment will know what they are going to do. and will come here prepared and with the numbers up, and they can srn·ing a ,m:priso on thP Opposi· 1inn. 1 can tell Government members that this Sbmding Order will have a boomerang pfi'cct, and 1 ach·iso then1 to give it further t:onsidcration.

The PUEMIEH: You can go bad;: a good Jnenv vcar _ a.nd vou \\ill not find one occa­sion~ \V.h;:ro t.ho (;ovornrncnt have attelnpted to get leave to suspend the St.anding Ordcre without giving not1c-:. It has certainl-· never b{-:!011 done Ly this ljovernmf'.nt. \Vhcnevor the Standiq; Orders have been suspended iL has been dont-: bv a::·rangemont •:vith thP leader d the Opposition. There is nothing in hnt. if l1ut1. rr,cnJbors oppo·,ite think tl~ ~t Stand:in'r Order should. r:_nu:un as it i,s, h:tYP no The rnattor cu.1· w !Jef.or'\:· tht~ ~t Cornrnittee, and

of tht'

,~ivinn· due notir '- \Y !'

~nly -]lroYoko . Oppo~itio;1, I will withdr,>.w the amendment.

0PPCJITIOX lYl niB EllS : Ht':tr, he<

:Mr. 3;f0HC A:\: I won! cl out that .it is rnv1 u,rr to the f\'{ feguard ('Xi?:ts in the Standing- Orders at pre~-Jnt that +ho Premier eonsnlts tho ]oRder of thG Opposi­tion \VL.~n lH~ v.+-Jws to get lw1ve to suspend the Star:cUng· OrdP:) ~ but, if the .q11end­Il10nt is a.grecd to, the Prunicr need not flOn'ult the leader of thQ Opposition at all. The time may como whon it will prove a useful Bnfcguard to hnYe. I vvill accept the Premier's sng-:,·estion to lc:vc tho Stundin~!' Urd,·r :.u it is.

Tho PREMIER: With the le.avo of thP Committ- e, I will '' ithdraw the amendment rel2ting· to the on1.i.P~ion of the 1Y·ords "which l~avo shLll nnt be granted if :,ix member~ d1sscnt therefron1.'' ~\mcndment, by !f'ave, withdrawn. The PUT~!\IIEH tlwn moved the insertion

of the -.Yords "majority of the" before the word '~ fiouse" -in line 3.

Question put and passed. The PRIOHER moved the omission from

Standing Order No. 330-" Repeal of Stand­ing Orrlas "-of the 'orcls "of t.he Legis!a .. ti,~o .·\1 rnJbly.' '

Q·w~tj<Jn 11ut and passed. The Houso r, .;;umcd. The TnrP0RARY CHA1R1!AN rpport0d th,, t

th~ Cornn1ittr·c· baU n~~rec•d -to c;crta-in arrnndmcntc:; in the 8t"1H-linrr Orr1Prs and Rules of Pr:tcticc, nr..d to

1

"? eertuiu lte'v Stnndjn,,. Order~.

On th!' n!otion ot the I'RE?·HER, th•· 1'Aport wts ap-rc0d to

The PRE:\HER mo,·ed-,; Thnt thC' DnlPndmpnts in tht1 Standjng

Ocrlcro. Rules of Practice, and new Shnd .. ing Orders bo presented to His Excellency the Governor for the Royal assent.

Qncstion put and passed. The House adjourned at 10.15 p.m.

[Mr. Morgan.