Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Council

WEDNESDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 1905

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Richmond tmvards [22 NovEMBER.] Cloncurry Railway. 1727

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

\VrmxESDAY, 22 XovE1IDER, 1905.

The PRESIDING 0HAIR~IAN (Hon. A. Norton) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

PAPERS.

The following papers, laid on the table, were ordered to be printed :-

(1) Annual report of the Inopector of Orphan­ages for 1904.

(2) Annual reporo of the Government Printer for the year 1004-:).

{3) 'l'hird Annual report of the Commis­sioner of Income Tax.

RICHMOND TOWARDS CLONCURRY RAILWAY.

ADOPTION OF SELECT COJ\!MITTEE'S REPORT.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. A. H. Barlow), in moving-

That the report of the Select Committee on the pro­posed extension of the Northern ltailway, from Rich­mond towards Oloncurry, be now adopted-

said : The report of the Select Committee on the proposed extension of the Northern line from Richmond towards Cloncurry, dated the 20th November, says-

They have examined the witnesses na.med in the margin-J. F. 'l'hallon and W. Pagan-and have taken

into consideration the report of the Commissioner for Railways npon the proposed extension; and they reco1Jimenrl that th( plan. section. and book of reference of the proposed cxtcn8ion be ~_:..pproved.

The report of the Railway Commissioner, which, in acc01dance with the Hail way Acts, he has to submit, says-

'rhe snrn•y commence~·. nt the end of the present rails at IUdnnoncl Station (:10f:i miles 71 chains fr01n Townsvillc, and 70 Jnilc; 25 chains from Hngbcnden), and extendrs for a distance of HO wiles 55 ehains, ending at 1Gl mile~ from JinglwnLlen. The trial suney from this lat.ter point to Cloncttrry is .Sl llliles.

After sorr:e technical statements, he goes on to say-

'Yith the exception of about 31 acres of agricultural and unconclitional selections, the line runs the \Vhole way through pastoral leases and grazing selections, the only comp~IL~atiou for which the lessees are entitled beiug a slighL reduction iurent in proportion to the area re&umed.

As to cost of construction, he says-The line will be of the cheapest possible t•onstrnction,

similar to tlutr, 1'rorn Hnghenden to ltichmond. If second-band 41-}:-lb. rails be taken up from the -present line Uetween Cl1a.rters ri·owers and Hugllenden and used for this extension (as was do11e in the ca~e or the line from Jingllendcn to RrchmondJ, the eo~t will be £15'1,5;"7 (or J:l.il5 per mile). Thi~, however, will eutail an e\ penditnrc or £HUH:i5 from revcnne and £~4.379 from loan fund::; for relasin~ the ex1~ting line with 02-lb. n>,lls. If new 42-lh. rail~ be obtainefi. \Vhic•h I reeom~ mend., the eost will be £1H8,087 (or £2,0i-.t l>er mile). Both of these ef:.timates are exelnsive of lantl, surveys, and Iolliug-stoek.

And as to rolling-stock, he says the additional rolling-stock will be trifling, and can be obtained at a cost of £5,000 at the oubddP. \Vorking- ex­penRf'R he eRtirnate•:; at £1:),1DO a, year, including £5,640 interest at 3 per cenc. As to the revenue, he says-

It i.s impo~l'lible to give a 1·cliable e~tirnate of the reYenue to be deriYcd from this line. as so mnch de­pends upon the miuing· deYeloprneut. in the Cl on curry distrie,t. If the line lJe 1mshed on \\ithout dday, I am as~ure<l that smelters will be crccteti at Clonenrry, and the matter I know is being :::;eriou!'ly cop,,i<lcred now. "-hen the smelters arc at \VOrk, tilere \Yill be a continuous stream of tratlie both UlJ aud down the line, as not only will there be a large lrH~rcase i.n the tonnage of store:>:, ete. to be carried on aceonnt of the greater populatiOn which must ineYit:-thly follow the erection of smelters, bnt fuel for the furnaces will have to be taken from Towm;yiJlc. The tra.ffic on the return journey will principally cons.i:4 of live stock for the various meatworks, wooJ, and copper.

And he ends with this recommendation-For the rea:-.ons that thi~ r:-tilway will open up the

Cloncnrry Copper l•1icl<l and succe:'sfnlly tap the im­mense cattle district in the Gulfeountry, I reeornmcnd its eonstruction, and would urge that the work be pushed forward 'vith aJl possible despatch. I fully anticipate that the line will be remunerative.

As I anticipate no serious opposition to this linA, I need not take up further time, but simply move the motion standing in my ruurw.

HoN. :!<'. T. BREKTNALL: This railway proposal comes none too soon. It would have been very much better for that district towards which it is going, and very much better, per­haps, for the State as a whole, if it already were completed to Cloncurry. It will gi'e :tccess to a renwte part of queensland territory, the mineral re,ources of which, eo far as superficial c..utcrops are concerned, astonish almo~t every visitor, whether inexpert or expert, who visits that district. It is probable that the construction of the line now proposed has bEen delayed some­what by the Port Norman project-that is, a project for building a private railway from Oloncurrv to Port Norman. As hon. gentlemen know, Parliament passed a Bill some time ago authorising the construction of a railway along that route-practically a part of the old

Hon. F. T. Brentnall.]

1728 Richmond towards [COUNCIL.] OloncuJT.Y Railwa;y.

transcontinental rail way route. Bnt, owing to circun1st::tnces, thttt tJr\~ject i~ still in a.b.~yance. Thn::-:e circtun~tances need not be whrlllY gone into, but I think tlJis proposal affnr1ls an opportunity for nw..king sl)rtte. reference to negutiu.t.ion.'3 tbat have pn1ceeded aR reg,1.rds the cnnstrnctinn of that line undel' the sr)ecial Act, an(l also to t-iOJYle hindr~tllC~'- whieh bave come in the way. To a grear, extent the pulJliC are in ignorancq ::t.o: to why that. project has not been proceeded with. In the tir"t [Jlace, there was, jn 1ny opinion, 8CJlllt' unnece~sary dela,y in getting the Bill thmngh Padiament to anthorise the cotJstruction of that railwav. S!IH18 referenc\:3 w.>R made to that m this Chamber >t few days ago, ~nd I hold the opinion, which I held pre­viPusly, that if there had been no (•bt'truction, leading to a semi-judicial inquiry, and if the Bill had not been vvithdr·awn, the chattcf',H are chat this line would bav<: been llnilt, and would have been working now. Just at that period the rnarket wa..:; fa,vourablt-'. JUoney wns plent1ful, and there wollld have been little t!irHculty, to all avpearance, in obtaining IllOney fnr the pro­ject. Thme was a delay of twelve month;; before another Bill wa;; got through. Then the Boer war br.1ke out, t.he tnarlu~t w,ts d..:pressed, and there were thre,ltenings of war ln other parts of tLe world still further tenrling to depcc<s the nwney n1 1.rket, and. it was f(lund irnpracticalJle to rais.~ the ru:ce~sary capital. Then thPre cclme the crisi~;; in the neg()tia,tious when the great Tharsis Cntnp::1ny came into thP fidd, and sent nut t\VO eiuinent expPrt . .;; t\) ex:;nr.linP the re.;ourc:etl of the Uloncu-fry district ; and, if their rc'purt had been 'atisfrrctory, then that powerful c,,n1pany wnnld have taken over the nJineral lea:-0:-> <Uld \Vorked them, and the rail­way cornpany would have simultanenut;]y pro­ceeded with the cunscrr:ction of the railway. Unfortunately, the rpport was not favm_Hn,ble; or, rather, they rc·ported that thPre had neYer been t<ufficie11t exploration of the lllinerai re­sources of the di:.;;tri(~t, and they could not 1ecnn1-n1end their princip;.1J~ to :::;pend thr" large anwnnt of 1noney the_y intended ~pending npon develiJp­ing and working thoRe rnineral resources. It was the opinion of one of tho~e expertR, l\-Ir. Kitchener-I had it from the gentleman's own lips-that there \Vere great pr•JIJ:tit-ies of futnre deve1oprnent there, hut 110 work had bce11 doue of sufficient depth to enabl- him to j ndge as to \vhether the ores that Wt-Te in sight wen~ likely to 1wovP of pt·rrnanent value. ~rhat was dis­tincrly diHcnnraglng. and to R. large extent the project waR tlropJJed. It \V<-t~ nut· altog~ tht~r dropped ; that is, the comp!clny has nut been liquidated or wound up, tJnd th~ saute p<trties who sDught cert1in pridiege~ undt·r that Hill are not ye:t off the proje•:c. Dnriug- the last twelve rnonttu; considerable 11E'gutiati1ms have been carried ou with our O\Vll Gon~rnment \vith regard to the R<'nne peqr,le prtJC81-'dillg with their busirleM~ in th:tt district. Tlwy hctV(' offererl to build thh VPry line which i~ 11uw befure this Council. They lMve offered t" assbt the Go­vernrnent to build it. rrbev woulJ either cnn­Rtrnct it t.hemsel ve~, if the .G()vernment would pass n Bill through, or they would finJ the money for the Government to build it. They would build it und.ee n Governn1ent guarantee, and hand over the rnanagenlf-"llt to the Govern­ment as soon as it was built. They 1nade different fonn~ of lH'Oposd to the Governrnent, but not. one C•f them h"s bePn accepted. I am now giving to hon. ~entlernen some information that ha' never been made public before. It has come to rne through private COJnrnunicationH from time to time, and it has not been regarded as public property. But I think now the time has come, seeing that the Government have undertaken the construction of this railway,

[Hon. F. T. Brentnall.

that the public should know the exact position in "hich other people stand to tbe pr,.po,al. It was .~tatect in the f:-'a.rlier part of the year, nr it was alleged to have been stated, by one of the Hletnber::; of the present GovPrnmunt., tt•at it \Vas the intention of the Govemment to build this railway, that no private conct>~s]on would be giv<:'n tu anybody for it8 construction, and that the GO\' ·rnment won]d continue tbe cou:-:otruc­tion of the- liue towards Cloncnrry in dne course, al!d without very mneh delay. A little while after that statement was alleged to h'we been 1nade, thi:-; paragraph appeared in one of the Brisbo.ne papers-

Tile Treasurer was questioned on 'l'hurstlay respect.ing the RiehtuoJJd-Clone;uny raii\\ay. lie ~aid that no melllber of the (~ovcrmnent It ad made an_y HS'-"rtion to the effect that such a line wa~ to h(· bnilr, nor was there auythh1g to be saicl abnuL the matter. A report bad appeared m a <'onntry uew~paper, saying that ~lr. Airey liad :umnnncetl tlle Gorcnunenr.'~ intention to consrnu~L tl1B line lmt. it was not eorrecL :\lr . ..\ir..Jy llact toltl h·m in a t~onvm·to;ation th:1t he neYPt' made an announr·crncut of that kind, and (f;wetion::;;ly} he was very g-lad of the inforll!atlon that the lme \Vas to be built.

It was not only alleged in that country news­paper, butt~ legrarns were sent dowu fron1 the district. in \Vhich the Rtaternent was Raid to have hee11 ma .. de bl the Brisbane !JaJJers, and the3,~ d11ly Rl:Jpe<-ned in the Bri.:;bane paper~. This '\a:-; fol­lo\ved by a fnrther staternent in tlw Bri~bi:lne paper~ that the Governuwnt had nrjt. received any as;.:;urance frmn any people or any private corn .. pany that work would bt' proceeded with in the Cl,nlCurry district if thi~ 1 ailwuy were built. That rather :-nrq~ri8ed lntJ, because I thought I had iufurrnati<,n that the Go\'f:I"IIlllent had been informed th<Lt if they \\Ould bni~d tbe rail\L:Y~ or would aJluw the crnnpan.} to build the rail\~ tty, witbont rmy deL1y) Pxplora.tory work would cnrntuence in that di;..;trict, and t1JL: willerai re­sourcrc; would either bt- devdo~red or they would prove thPlH to nn worthy of dt velopmenL I n1ade it n1y (,n Lehalf of frieuds iu the old cour,try, to intt;cview the Prt-lnier on the subject. \Ylmt l"""''"d betwe~n the Premier and 1n_yHelf i:-; private, but I mn very glad that one phasP of the conver~ation need 110 longer be rPgarcl~,d m; private, because the Prernier af:~un~ i 1ne that there would tak8 place hat has actmdly takc:n place-that this pr '!J"''d which is now before the Council to ennstrnet the fircit section of this railway wonld be brought forward this se'"'~ion. I never rnentiunf'd thi~ bt:fore except in private lettert<, but it can be no tsecret no",-, seeing th;-~.,t the (~llVernment ~_re pl'opo::-ing­to do the work themselves under :Pa.rlitLment':-: sanction. 0<> 13th T\Iarch la"t the Government were informed hy an official cnmrnunication front peoplP who 'vel't3 authori..;;ed to Rend it that f-:01118 well~knO\\ n aud wealthy lJBnJ.Jle \\'ho bad for years been \Yorking n1ines jn Rhode ... irt were prepat ed to put F<me.lter~ at Oloncnrry in hl:""t-;t~ \Vith the llbject of enC(JUr:lging aud opening np a'"' 1nany n1l11PS aR pngsible. 'That was prior to the appnmnce of the pctragraph to which I have just referred. In a letter dated 12th :\lay, \\-hich came to myself, there was thic--

\fe would hnxe like(l the C'ompany to lmild the rail­-way on a, guarantee; there can be no oh.icct.ion Lo the GuY(~rnment doiug it, 1:'0 long- as the]l f/o it r1ui, ~ ·y. l f theY lil{ed to 1:--~IH: bonds. we eonld bell them am:l b~1ild tlle.line. nncl on eornpletion lumd it over to the (;overn­rnent. Or, we could hand them the m(Jney, leaving them to bnild.

\Vhat was wanted then, and iii still wanted, is a definite assurance that the railwaY will be CPm­pleted to Clnncnrry within a re;>.onable time, and I do not think that ttnybody should be much surprised at a requirement of that kind. These men are prepared to expend money to the extent of hundreds of thousands of pounds in develop-

Richmond to1cards [22 N OVEMilER. J Cloncurr;IJ Railwa,y. 1729

ing a large and important district of this State. It is not unreasonab:e that they should have some assurance that facilities will be given for comumnication and for the tran<,,it of \Vhat l'ru­ductiou tllay resu]t frorn their work between the f::Cene of O}H::·ra.tion::; a.nd a 1 ;ort. That i~ all thn,t has heen nqnired by that company frr>m the Government during the last few Hlt•nth::;; and bear in mind tha.t l am Rpc-aking· of Yor:v recent correspondt'IlCP. l cmne down to 11th A ngust, when 1 received this-

Quef-'ll:l,lantl cannot be got to f'VCll snY th:Jt· a line will he eou~trneted to Oloncnrry, when peoPle a1·e prepared. to put a lnL of uwnc:Y ilno the d1strict. Tt 1he Gon_H'Jl­meut think pe(qJle will ~lleHd 1 JhlO~. in \Yest Qllccuslancl, not knowiug wbcu there \Yill be r· ilway C(•llllllnnieation. they arc llli~taken. it they won ill "'<LY tllatt::e line sLall be COll1}Jleted in two, nr even three, year.-; it \Voulfl clo. Or if they said we will enmpl~to the fir:-.t 7o mile:-;, and if mo1H~Y i~ not. availalllP and you will take np onr deht:lltm·c .. , \\T will (~ontin11e it to eompletiou. 'l'hen th(.'SO tH;Ople \YOU\d :-:tart ~\)ClHhn_g lll(>llCy at. once. ~\ll that they \Yant i.-.; tl:at tile GovermncnL w1ll build the line witl)in son1c .-:tated tiJJ\e.

I kn0w that request has been pnt to the Govem­ment. If they would simply "'Y that tllf3y were prevarod, as far as their il.ltiueuce g1Je;:;~of course, they camwt pledge any \~overnment that may come aftt~r th~_'Jll, and they Cl-nnot guantntee that tht--y are goir:g- to be in ptnver for the Ill'Xt three year:-:;-bnt suppo'-'ing tbat thPy do remain in p<H\.-'Cr, if thPy would pnnni:-:>e to He cure the con­struction of this railwn,y within tf.ree years, a great rl.t>nl of capital would cmr:e into that territ01y; a grfat deal of work won1c1 be pro­vidPd for \Vl -r1dng men ; a great impnl e wcnld be given to the settJemf'ut of that country ttnd the dnn'lllt)ment of it::; mineral re.~onrceR; and practically a uew srction of Qnet>n:-l]a.nd territory \VOn]d be orwned llp to indn:-;trial prUCE'Si:'e~, and work would be found for hundreds a11d perhaps thm1Kand~ of peop~e. C·ll1ting nearer still, 1 received this on l:>th October-

The Sonth Afriean people eannot get anything defi­nite from the Go\~ermncur :r·e CloncnrrY Hailwav. So I expcet they will aba11don the \V hole tiling. as illey say there is not anolllnr GovPnwJcnL out~ide of A n~tntlla tltal would aet iu thi~ dog-in-the-maJtger ~tyle. Tllf'Y ·lnlluot let anyone bnild tile line, the\' v;rll not let the people JH'OYitll· tlJe money for the GoYermHc·nt. to do it. ueitller will the GoYernme11t giYc a date npon whicl1 the llne will be complc·tetl hy tl1eHJ-"Ch'es. The principal man ~;aid the ot. t'l' day that he 1vonld llOt- yut one sixJH:~nce into it. or 1'ecomment1 anyone else to do so, until the Government stated db1i11etly wlmt wonld be done, but that h<- wn~ prt·lHtred to go ou with the business. and start \Ym·k on the field, on the GoYorn­mPnt saying- that the line would be opened \Yithin a certain time.

\Vhen I received the aR urance, given to me with the utmost courteRy m1 the part of the Premier, that the proposal now bef(1re Parliarntnt would be hn~u~ht rorwn,rd, that veT~' da..y I cablecl the infl}l'lnatinn home to London, because therf:'l was th(~n a. danger of the ('t)lll]JftDY bursf.iug up hPcan~e they could g-Pt IlO ~ati~Jaction. I put thern in pussef-wion nf the fact th:1t t,hj::- r:1ilwa.y W011ld be a propn"ial {)f the Government during the presr-'nt P<trlicnnt·nt, ann thH.t the COh~'itrw::­tion of the line through to Cloncmry would be a pm·t· of the G<>vermm,nt policy. But they \vanted that frnrn the GovPn~HlAnt thmnselveR. They wanted it from the· Prei!lier, '"'d if they could get it from tbe Prf'nli r, with somethitlg hke certaintv as to when the line would be coni­plPted, thA t~ow~y \VaR certain to come here as soon as clin1~ltic conditilm8 would perndt \vork to be b gnn. I believe there i" a bmclter at Cloncurry. The Hon. 1\Ir. Brown hati been there recently, and perhaps he can say. [Hon. \V. V. BIWWK: There is onP, but it is not at work.] It is not at work, bnt it is capable of being put into a condition to wnrk. A great many people are pottering about-some

1905-50

of tl1en1 raising rich ore-with th~~ object of ~ending it to port and ~hipping it dov.n the coast to be treatefl somewhere elsP, hut, nothing leHs than 40 or 00 per cent. ore would pay the cost of tran~it and trP .trnent. The:--;-:• p~·ople wouJd at once hil\"8 tnken steJJf· to hase t h~ ~me iter put in gt1od c~JilJition for \York, and they would dt) that work in order to help the people vdw ha.ve their sn1all h"':-t·es. t1) prm~pect thPir cw1ntry and to oppn up itf' rc.snurcPs. I do n(;t think it neces­sary to n1ake ctny fnrther quotations, but hon. gentlPnH~n wiH p8rcF-ive that there is nHmey waiting- ns sc,on a~ the owners of tha.t ffi(\ney are assured that the Government intend to coruplete the ra.ilwny, and tht1t they will endf-"EWtlUl' to do it within ~mue speei-ti, ~i period. Tbe~e are thP. only two points tbat ~D('11l to be reqnin·d, ThP. f-'X­

tracts I hav · read p,re thoronghly reliahb and have GXlJl'e.-.-sed w'nat i~ tbe intention ln the old. country. Scnne Sonth ~African people are mixed up in thi:-:. They ha \"e plenty of nwney behind th(~m antl plenty of 1nining experiencf~, and they \ViJl ba\·e to comply v.,ith all our Jahour cmH.1i­tions. They c•·u1 get no ~pecial cnilCession.-;, and they do not wi~.h to ask for any. They will L<tke the~ lea~es on the condition::-_; at::ach8d to thetu und('f our r,{ining r\..ct and regulations, and they will bee prep"red to work them. Th< superficial sign~ of rich mineral re~ources in the. Cloncnrry district are admitted by almost ever' Lody who goes there, anrl even people who do not peofess to be 1nining exr,erts are arnazecl when they see the surface indications. But nu one can say whether tho~e Ords go clown, and when you have penple prepared to ::-;pend their O\Vf1 Hwney, if they can oJily have an assurance of scttisfactory transit, iu te3ting whether the ores gn do,vn or not, it is only 11a.tura I tlmt they should expect the Governnwnt tn give thern the little sati.--fac­tiun they require before they risk the expendi­ture of their c;tpital. I have no donLt whatever that the Gnverntnent have their reasons for the action they are taking, or for tilPir disincJina.­Lion to cmnmit themselves to any promi~e. Tbey can only lJroruise for themselves. They cannot promise auything· for t-h6ir snc~~Pssnr:;:;; but that i.~ not wanted. Let it be once said that it is the definite policy of the prPsent GoYerntnent to pmb on the railway as speedily as possible, and th~1t endeavours will be n1ade within a certain definite period t0 haYe it completed rig-ht inL~") Cloncurry, ~!)nd the capital will corne, tbe work will proceed, and tl~e district will be developetl. I ruight jnRt refer to an intFrview

with a Mr . .:\Ia.thPz, which has been L4 p.m.] rEcently published here. I had an

interviev,' \Vith thi3 gentleman my~ self. 1\lr. 1\Iathez and his companion, 1\Ir. 1~-ogers, came frorn the L-:-nited Rtares with the object of making certain inspections for Home capitalists in the United Stateq. It wa,- with the,rn as it was with previ0us expertA-they were di"tPP'•inted that no work had been t!one to enable thern to say dPtinitely w hetl1er the orrs went down. T1H:>re is no u~,e g::::tt.ing- n. large anwunt of rich ore in s;;n1e ontcr~)p. It tnay go 50 pe-r cent. or GO }Jer ceut., but if t.he un' d\JE:S not go do\'vn to the wa.ter level, if it dot:::S nut t;o d(lwn to the permanent sulphide ore, there is 110

e1JC11urngHnent foe eapitalists to :::;p~;--;n:i money in atternrti'Jg to develop a thing which way not exi ... t, and they will not do HO. The~~ gentluuen did not exactlv recommend to their principals oil that S•nne )Jeople boped they wuuld, bnt this i.3 what :i\Ir. l\fat,hez sttid to a Pi'e,;s reporter here with regard to Cloncurry~

The snrfRce showing at Cloncnrry is the best I have ever secn-alJd I have seAn a great. many copper-fields in nl mo::;t every part of the world. Bnt there is no development there whatever-almost nil, at any rate. Tlle tr:tnsportation possibilities are verv nnsa.tls· faetory, to say tlJe least of it. It is hopcles~ to look f0r 30 per cent. to 40 per cent. ore in quantity, because the

Hon. F. T, Brentnall.]

1730 Richmond to1cards [CO"G:N CIL. J Cloncur?','l/ Railwa.1J.

history of the world shows that it does not exist in that degree anywhere. You mn~t make t.lw conditions snch in this eonntry that <l 10 per ct:ut. ore will pay.

I maintain that the prohlem. so f:Lr as Cloncnrry's sncressful \Yorkinv, HHbt be solved. by ~·om· c~o\·ern­ment. The quet'tion llltl~t he ::-o\ycd. fr, i~~ only a maller of thne. The GoYernment mu.:;t hnild railro:t ~~ tlJCre, and it will get its ITlOJJC_\· hnt'J..:: in tlw CllllancPd value of the laud, apa.rt from the de\'t:'!lopwcut of the fie\(l.

[t must he remembered that t.his valn:tb1e eonntrv covers over ~.000 sqtmre miles, and it i:; bl'imtul c)f first-class eopper prnsw·cr~. Tlwt i~my lJoup:-;topinion. Rut <lt the present time it i~ totalty \lllLkvt·lopcd. A couut,ry is de\Plopr:-d by iwliYiclnal ('fforr. Yon nmst give the hope to tile iudividlla\ pro~pectnr, btH yon w1ll never clo it •.viihout you provide hiln w1th the backing of suitable transvortation.

Of course, it is eminently satiefactory to every. body interested in the district that the Go­vernment should attempt to do s(\nlAthing, and it has gi ,·en very wide satisfaction t'>at they are pr.,posing to construct half the length of the gap bet·,,.een ltichmonr! and Cioncnrry; but if they will only say that thPy will follow this up determinedly, if they r•Jmain in power, by constructing the other h<>lf, then require­ments will be metJ. I h•,!JP they will see their way ele«r before very l.mg tu do that. Then there will be good in,iucements given to these people to spend the money which they are dr:sirous uf Rpending in opening Hll that counLry . ..:\country wbich ha~ rich resunrc,..,~ a.nd refuses tn open thr·n1 up can hctrdly be regarded otbe.nvise than a~ a traitor to ib:; de .. ~tinv. Xo new inrin~triaJ theorie;-;, and no fads (,f mly clas.:; can justify inditference to the :::-uU~tautial and 1Jer~ nmnent interest-:1 of the country. I believe tha,t oh~tac]es ha\·e been put in the way. \V e know that a large rrmjority \1f a certa,in section in an­other pluc- O!Jptlt'Pd t.ne recent proposal tiJ give an extention of titne to the Lilydale Company and thPy are only in favour of thi~ line hecaut-5e the Govennneut iK prnpo . ..;ing to (;llllstruct it thenw·lvPs. But I do not think thai· at! antipathy to c.:apital ~honld stand in the w:.ty of the interestR of the country; and when capl'Lali::;h:; are pre-pared tn invest their lTIOIH:·y aud when, by ~he use of that money, work can fonnd fm· the unmnployerl, it wili he nnlCh wir;er t.o find that employment and open np the country than tn let thiR distric.:t rurnain fnr an~ other quarter or half a century as it hag remained ;.;ince it was tiTst discovered. 'rhe e~,.--en~ial principle of progre::-;K in any ne\v country iH the developrnenl. of its latent resources. It is idle ,;nd nn wise to talk of progre.ss whilst we practi~f~ stagn::ttion. If \V8 want the country to go ahead, let us try to 't·nd it "bead; ancl1f the Government will only help thP people who are propor•ing now t•) open up the Cloncnrry cli~trict, 1 arn quite sure that before very long- there \vill be the expendir.ure of a considerable an1m1nt of money there, and work will be provided f<Jr a great many of the unernploved ::tbout whom we hear such pathetic and doleful tales from time to tirne.

HoK. K J. STEVEXS: Thi, proposed line to Cloncurry has been the scene of battle between opposing parties for a f!Te.tt number of years. Time after time the richness of the Cloncurry district has been pointed out, and efforts ha Ye heen n1ade to connect Cloncurry and Ni)rlnan­ton by railw"Y· It was first propOsPd to do so Ly a eyndicat8. That fell thron>(h. Then the Government of the day placed £800,000 on the Estimates, and had the amount passed for thA construction of the line. Again the political wheel went round. Other forces gained sway, and the money ww> di vorted in other directions. I was one of those who always advocated that the connection with the coast from Cloncurry should be at Normanton, the distance being so much shorter than from Cloncurry to Towns-

[Iion. F. T. Brentnall.

ville. Bnt as that project is hopeles,;, I am only too glad to give 1ny support to the proposal nnw before the Council. I have known pPrsonally for a great nutny yean;: that Clnnenrry is one of the riehe~t rnineral districts in C~ueensland, and, for all we knO\V to the contrary, it tnay prove to benne of tbH riche..;t in Au..;t.r(llia. The copper or~ there is ahnnst pure. I ha.ve broken off piecPs nL.n the snrface, and harnmererl. ont tlv:: rough pieces of C()pper into ri\·ets and used them as such. The Hon. ~Ir. Brentmdl has given us quotations frmn letter.-; from rnen \:'i.Tho are able to tind capital fnr thP rlev(~]ol>l11ent of a great deal of this rich cnuntr}~, a11d \vho \Yant th8 line carried on fnrther to Cloncurry. That n1ay be necessary from a businer:;s point of view, but when they eonsider that the Gm·ernment are constructing ninety odd rnile8of the line rww, thPy n1ay rPstassnred that thA GovE"rnrnent, if it remains in o1dice, will bridge over the gap in the very near future. There is Ro rnuch to bP said in fa\~our of that C1nuse t,hat. I can hardly imagine any Go­vernn1ent allowing the line to run a in incornplute for any length of tirne. Tbe country it passes through is the very be~t de:-:cription of grazing country ; it is rich in gras.-,es, and the r,oii itself is such tha~ if the experitnents now being con~ ducted to produce a wheat to stand a dry clirnrtte are sncce~~ful, thnt country will be as fit for agriculture as any part of the Darling J)()\Vns. In addition, the line will enable s~ock, in tirnes of dronght, to be brought into re~~rve cunntry, as well as ~,ringingduwnlrtrgeqnat~trties of fat l::itock to the n1a1kets. The 0 •nuuisswner, in his report, says thett, o\vlng tu t1w drought, there hHs been a decreaHe in the traHic raile' i !rum Hug)!Pnden. ~~rguing inversely, with a relurn of th01t very hewy freight will again

tvcn greater in the future than it baR been in the past. The Connui~~:iinner recmutnt>nd~ tbi.-; line very 8trongly, ancl be fully auticipateK that it will Le rernunera,tivf'. Con1ing frmn a. gentleman tJf 1lr. Tha.llm1'.-; experience, that r8CtliUmPndation carrie~ great weight, as it i.-.; to bi::; intt-re~t not to build line~ which will not prove re1nuner<tti\·e. He would not t;pe.-lk so Htrongly unle~s he Wf're cnnfid._ut the line would pay. There is no one in Queensland at the pre­sent time ~o cmnpetent to forrn a, sound opin1on on Fmch a ~ubject, and it f:Oes a, long \VttY \vith 1ne in inducing me to give my support to the projecterl line. I have a g·ood de<>l of !Jleasure and t-ati:.,faction in Fnpnnrting- thiH rnotion, for I feel confident that in tho nPar future it will be one of the means of helping Queensland ahead, and leading her through the- troublous time through which she h>es been wading for some years past.

Has. \V. V. BRO\VN: I i!ltend, of course, to Hupport this motion. I need not say I am very pleased indeed to see that the Government have brought this line forw<trd. I happened to be in Oloncurry when the ne\VR ca.rnR throug-h that it was contemplated to build this railway, and I can assnre hon. gentlemen that it gave vAry great satisfaction to the residents in that district. I agree with those who haYe spoken that this will be one of the hest lines ever put forward in Queensland. I do not think any, with the exception of the secti"n from Towns­ville to Clmrters Tnwers, will be found '" profit­able. Not only will the section proposed to be built be profitable, but it wtll make the other p«rt of the line already in e'ist­ence much more profitable than it is to-day. \Ve have heard it frequently said that the Cioncurry district has not yet been proved. That is perfectly true. The mines have not yet been proved to Qny dPpth, bnt it does not require anyone Yer::;P,d in mining to form an opinion, and my opinion is th"t there is sufficient ore in the

Richmond to1!'ards [22 NOVEMBER.] Cloncurr,y Railwa,y. 1731

·Cloncnrry district, above the water level, to justify the construction of this line, in fact to pa,y fur· the line. \V e all rerneml1er hu\v the one copper rnine ut Peak l)owrh Cl eateJ n p(\pulous and J•ro:-;per(ltlti tnwn~'hip, awl b()w lhe one c:1pper tu in~-~ at i\Iouut. 1-'erry br1 •nght ahuut the ::,ame re..-ult. Ca.n hou. werllller~ re:cdi.:sc \'I.· hat it ruea.n~ \vhen you ha ·,·e forty or ti fty 1nirH'.S of that cha.raccer? I saw one wine at Cioncurry thP oGi1t'r day that I thought wou1d b-~ :-suthc.lent of it-.~p]f to kt'ep the railway going. ThPre \\'ere lO,UOO t11DS of ore st~.ckt>d on the Slll face await­ing faci~ities for smelting <Lnd transport by r.,il­way. Of recPnt yen.rs ort~s have been sent tl) the <onuthern :-:1nelters fnr treatment, and of court~e only the best quality of ore could stand the expense of being treated in that way. It may be that out of 10 ton' of ore rai;ed onlv 1 ton will be Hnffi.ciently l'ich to ~end away. ·But what is called poor ore >tt Cloncurry would be cotlled rich ore a.t C!nlhgoe <1.nd rnany oth(~rs di~tricts. Tbis so-called poor ore run:-:; fr()rn 10 to 25 per CPnt. It. is generally cotL~idered at Cion­curry that ore must he from ;;o to 40 per cent. before it will prty to 'end it awav. [Hon. G. \V. GRAY: .\.t what depth i, that taken from:] I do not think any h"s been teken below 100 feec. The qnality nf the ure beluw the water­level has not betn ~mfficiently tested to lJe able to say the tield will h~ the pr::wmaneut ont~ we expt:Ct; but ~.-vhere there is .-:nch a htrge number of big rnines so rich on the surfacP, it i-:; rP:bun­able to supl)')xe that ruany qf them wUl be prryable at a rlepth. 1 quite agree ···ith the Hon. :\Ir. Rl'entn~ll that it wonld be very de,ir­able if the (}o\·ernment eould ::;ee their W<1Y to ;;;av ddinitf•lv that the tine is to bP. con.--.:tru'cted to Cloncurr~·. Of cour:-;e, we here, a11d the people in QtF'en:-land ·who knnw tlw intt>ntion~ uf tliP Government, are t-1ilti.-:f1Pd that the line i~ going tlwre. Bnt '-Hnuedling uwre i~ re­quired. \Ve want to be abl8 to l::iati~;fy the

ontsid.~ tlJP State-lJeople 'iVho are vv:tit-tn spend ll1i)llf~Y in developing it. They

want to be ~v.; .... un~d, and I am perfectly cr;rtr:in tha.t, lHtCr: tbat a~-;nrance is gi \en, thern will be a very largP amount of mo?lf'Y .ctvailcthh"" f,Jr deYelopnlent puq.~osP~. I healCl a,n lwn. n:em­ber ~ay ther~ a:·e 2,000 squarn 111ilel) of 1nin.t-ral country in thL di~trict. I helien.~ that 1s C:)rrcd. I know there i.--.: a stn-.. tch of <:onntry 200 tuil'-~ by 100 miles \Vhich is UW!'8 or 1f:''3S

:miner<tl, and I do not know that all the bc~t Ini:tt,·:· i1aYe been di~coYererl yet. But ~:-·n<.mgh have been discov>-'red to .i'.lHtifv theconf'tnw:ion of this n1.ilway, and I have to che G-overnme!lt nvon intruducinz dep~rting :-::o1newhar, frorrt the qnesli, n bt:ff,l'8 the Conncil, but I would l·ntg~!'.--;t. tht• con··,truc­tion of an adclitionn..lline bt>t'.Yeen \Vint()n and Longreachl in orcler t.hat ~tock uw .. y be reruoved from the Northern rli;trict to the Central line, and carried from the CPntral di,. trict to the Cluncurry 1listrict, which, a-; I Ilee(1 ll<,t point out, wonlrl be a great act \'a.ntagP tu the cnmmnr1ity in the Central district. That is a nmtta entirelv for thB GovernrnPnt, and I hop' thE·y will serinnsly consider the advisability of connecting­the Xorthern system with the Central system.

Hox. G. \V. GRAY: I luwe known this di:-;trict for twenty-five years, a11d. I have tLlway,s been under the irnpres~non that it~ 1HirH:>7al re-.;onrct-, were not :-;nfficlently developed t') jnstify the t-iovernroent ill building the r-ailway. Of course, tho snrface wroalth has bePn known for yean,. \Vhen it was held by the Henry Brother~ I ownP-cl a. schooner running to 1.\or­manton, and I rernernber the mn::.ter of the schooner bringing down a piece of pure copper taken fron1 the surface; and I have seen very good alluvial gold obtained only a short distance

from where this copper was procured. How­ever, \Vhen we hear the Hun. }lr. J3nnvn, who ha::; recently been to Cluncuny, telling us of the large nnn,ber of rich mines there, and that they ha\·e g-nne down a-5 dt'ep as lOO fHet to get ore of 10 tO~;) [181' Cent. <1f ricbtH_·SS, that evidE-nCe is ~ufiicient to jnf: if.v ns in giving ,ur :::;auct-ion to the constnH:ti~~n of tbiR line lJy the Gov(·rrunPnt. Anuther gllod reaSI!ll ,.-hy the G(\VernntPnt f-lhuuld build it if--1 t.hat, with the exc;;ptiou of 3--1 acres of <-1gticuHnral and unconrJitional sp]ection, tlw line runs through pastorallea.sPs and graziug belections, and th11.t a very small snm will be re(1uired fnr co1llll€ll!"ation. I am \"try p1ut~ed to see this line brought fnrward, and if the district is one-half as rich in rniueral WPftlth as we h<t\e heard it is, we sh::cll have surr.ething- to advertise the uountry in a way it !Jas never been :td verti,;erl before.

Ho;-;. !{. H. S:\IITH : This line has so many recownH:~ndatinns, and hmt. geutltn1en are so Wf--dl acqnaintFd "vith the n~tture of the conntry, that we have no he::-;it.ation in coming to the con­clu:'-1-ion that in buildmg the 1·nil \.V ay we are not rnaking a rni-;take. lrre~pective of the rich rniw::~ral depo . ..;it.-.:, there is xornf', of t.he bP.~t Ltnd in _,_-\ustralia for rai:-->ing :-;heP)J and c1ttle-fine, level connrry \vllich we call rolling downs. There is one p~Jiut whieh ha.s not yet hten touched upon-lJa:nPly~ the snpply of arte~ia.n w~tter. In the country bPt•YPf~ll Hichll11m<l alld Cloucurry, arte:sian W<-tter has l)e:·n ~truck at vc-;rv shallow depthi:i-in some i~1stanees at a:3 small tL depth a.s 400 fer:t. I hnxe very n1nch plt:msure in s:lpp\lrt­ing this raih\'ay, and I think the U-overnnH·nt are entitled to uur thanks for laying it before us.

The SECHETAHY FOR PUBLIC IX-STRl-CTIOX, in ouid : \Vhen rhe Hon. .0-Ir. J.)re:Jtnall ro.--:e hi:-~ papt>r in hi:-:; h<:tn-::1,

I n ally did no[, kn w what w,JS

[-1.30 p. m.] cum in.:;. I wa.~ afrair! that thre \, ;-u_,.. to bo ·~mue 118\V developuJent in

connection with thiK l'ailwar. At Ktag-e of it::; catet'T the then Premier, 'the H(Jn. Philp, st;1tt·'t that, if he conld tind that thi:--; COllCe.rn ,ras tc1iu1A:d \Vith any irnproprie['r-I thir.d\: h~ nsec1 a :-;tronger word than unproprlel·.y, but, iu we tran;;;late our thoughts into tnilder langtHige--he would withdraw the line from consideration, and he did withdraw it. 1-{owevpr, my were n1la.J ed wheu I found that the wbuld of the ho11. gentleman's <lddress was to to ~et <Hl assurance from the Government that this ]ine would. be continnt·d to Cl()ncnrry. The propt~r place to get tha.t as:-mrancH is from the Prcn1ier in the L,·gi,latin Ahounbly, if he is di,posed to gin, it. The hon. gent1enun , ... aid that there was a danger of thix great coinpm(y btn·Kting up. \V ell, I have very litde confidence in any cmnpa.ny that iH in danger nf bnn-;ting up. I do 11ot think there is a.ny cuw pany that has got nal :-<olid C.tpital behind it bur . ...;tin~ up ~iwpl:v beca11se it caunot get an assuranc~J fro111 someone. 1 f they are not lJettitngging capitali~t.s with £10,000 or £20,000, but men who deal in hnndred~ ()£ thou~ands, there is not the lea,t fettr of capital like that­if it ever exi~ted, which I Herint,:)ly donht-ever being di"itmted. [Hon. \V. V. Bno\YK: It is divP.rt.e{l to ulher c~:auueJt:.l Then othHr capital will take itH !JbCe. If one m8,n \vill nnt do -it, another will. ·what the lwn. gentleman really complain.s of i~ that we a,re pr1;po:>ing tu make imlf a rail\\Jy-that we gi,·e thorn half a l<•af, and that '''f' decline tt) give an assurance that we \vili go tlv~ whole way ; that we are ma.kjng this half of a railway in the interests of th.e pnblic instPad of h,tnding over the whole Cl1ncern to a sy"dicate. [Hon. :B'. T. BHEXTl\'ALT,: I made no c'ornplaint at all. I repre~euted other peoJJle's

Hon. A. H. Barlow.]

173:.l Ricltmoncl totcards [COUNCIL.] Cloncurry Railtca,y.

complaintR.l Then what did the hon. gt>ntlenvm D,ddrPSR tlw House for at all? He di<l not addrc_:::-:-; u::; in la,urlation of thiK DO rnil~~ of rail­way \Vhich \Ve now propo .. ;;e to con~trnct. The address had no reference to certain communica~ tionK he luvl from hi::; friends and certain cum­municatinns he had with the Hon. the Premier (who it appear::; declined to give any as)'(ura.nce), and certain thingK that the Trea~urer ancl the Home t3ecretary :-,,id. I do not Ueheve 1 here is this great allllf\.Ult of rnoney available. In nine case~ nnt of ten thl' object is to gf't a cnnce.:;~ion. In all countriP" in the world it i:-; g11ing on. It is going on in China, and Persia. \Vherevrr the concessionaire can get his fuot in he tries to get a concession-not that he has a.ny monPy to carry it out, but in order that he may ha\\k tbe con· cel!~ion about and endeavour to rnake n1nney out of it. I would never con:::ent; tn our Queen~­land stnck being given to any s~·ndicate to be hawked >tbnut. If we cnrmot Reil our Ktock "t a goud price and Uo our O\Vl1 work with our O\vn money, we certainly are not going to take the trumpery endorsement on the back of Queensland stock of some shadowy syndicctte which rnay or may not exist. The idPa which wa~ .sh:ld<Jwed forth of gidng to any syndi­ca.tA Queensland C-ovennnPnt, debentures tu be hawked about to the deprecicttiun of our other stock would ruin all onr future hnTowing:-: (if \;..·e ever do bnrrow ugain), vvhich I hops will be a long way off. It i8 a polic'T which I mu ,"'-nrethe GovernmPnt I belong to will nevt>r consent to. \Ve are always hearing aLont the working man and how he io kept out of work by the oopo,i­tion tq syndicate .. atJd ~yndicrtte ra,ihv~ys. ·How rnany couce~~ion~ are tlwro on th_e statutt~-Look now that have never put a pick into thP gr 1Jund ::tnd hav(j never rnade the ;;;lightest a,ttemp~ to carry out the powers ve:-:!--d in then1 '? [Hon. 1'. I. Po\YER: Do they give you a de~"'sit ?] They do, aud it suits then1 very well to give a deposit; but these deposits have never been forfeited. The other day a cmn­pany put down a deposit of £2,.)00, and afterward.-; it cc-une to the Government an(l said, "\Ve will give you another deposit of £2,BOO, and you f'ball give ns a.n extension of time," but I have never heard o± any deposit having been forfeited. No doubt a dBpcsit is necessary. The Governm.-nt is t'ntitled to keep its policy to itself, or it has the right to declare what its policy shall be; but unh ,,s the Prender cboo,es to make a statement in the Legishtiv·e Assembly nf wh>tt his policy is it is a question that should not be asked. It has only been asked for the pur­pose of enabling the Ryndic~te to operate in Londun. If an assurance was given hy nle­which I have not the 'lighte"t authority or in· tention to give-or if it \Va-.; given by the Pretnier in the other House, the inforn1ation would be cablerl to I .. unclun a1Hl that a . .;;snrance, for what it v.;a.s wortb, Yvonld l>e en1ployed by thes8 syndi­cates. The Government ha:s clone a very grPat deal in thr; way of rail way construction. The Treasurer has been repeatedly abused for ltd· rninistering the loan fund in ::1 han;h rrutnner. It is said that he has got in n><mey here, and got in m<•ney there; but he has acJ. ministered the loan fnnd on strictlv business line:-), and the re~ult of his adn1inist'ration has been that he is ocble to carry out three lines of railway, two of which a,re now befor-e the House, anrl one of which is in embryo. He has also been able tn provide for other loan expenditnre withont any borro,ving. .._<\dminit'tration of that kind doe~~ Hot de1'ern~ Cl·n~ure. Of coUTt'iE', it is very unpleasant to local authorities and harb«ur board~, and all sorts of perEon.:;, jn~t aH it is unpleasant to UR in our private CalJaCity, to be asked to pay our debts ; but unless these debts are paid it is utterly impossible that the loan

[ll on. A.ll. Bar low.

fund can be re!Jlenished. If it is not repleni,hed by legitinHtte paylllents being n1ade, it mutJt be repleuj.shed Ly bmTtnving-n policy which i:::; at present impnssible. \Von!d it not be better to see that the>e wonderfully rich ores really go down aud that they really end in snlplndes before the Government is blamed for comulitting itself to anything-? 1 an1 not. :1 rnining expert, bu-t I know tlw.t low-grade ore \vith plenty of it i;::; better tban a certain an1lJUnt of rich ore which does not go down. I think the Cl•mcurry ores have nnt heen te..:;tNl-evl"ll on the te~tiuwnv of tbeir O\'\'n friend~-to q.n extent that will en~ble the public to see with confidence that there is this enormous werrlth. That there is wealth there i~ no doubt ; bnt, when these thing-8 are te,ted fmther, it will then be found whether thPy are going to be of that '\ercdy productive character which mc1,kes any grec1,t 111inin~ field. I have never hBard nf 1abonr huving any antipathy to capital. I am not speaking for labour, beeau:-:;e I do not LrJong to thP L[tb(llJr party. I belong to the M organ ocetion ,,f thc administration; hut I have never heard that there was any antipathy on the part of the Labour )Mrty to capital. 13nt there is an antipathy to the statP of t hingR that exist' in Arnerica in connection with J•rivate railways. I ask anyone to look at "Everybocly's :\Iaga­z.ine," which iH to Le found in the libraryt to see how the railway syndic,..tes of America in a mPrciler:s way depres~ th~~ pric~ of produce to the \Ve,tern gmwer, depress the pricP of cattle, r1eprt'J.:R the price of fruit, and enorruous1y rai.-:e the pric,· of thl)~e articles to the Eastern con~umer. Thi . ..; i--; done with a sha,me­le ,,,ness and an in>nlence that is nnparalleled in tbe hi,,tory of the world. Th< y :ippear to be ~tble tn buy Legi.slatnres and Suprt>n1e Courtt-, and to go on jnst a~ they plea..;e. I do not believe that the Labour par~y has any objection to the (")n:-:.truction of private raih·, ays under 1 Jfl)ptr conditions nf working rtnd proper condi­tions of purchase by tlw GoY rnment. If they have, they have nev·er officially declared it. I conclude these remarks by saying that I consider· the Governrnent has clone <1 guod deal in the aclministratirm of the loan fund: It has clone a VPry lruge anwunt of work for a very little JIInney, and it is not ea11ed npon to disclose its policy. At an;/ rate, if tb>tt policY is to be dbdosed, it must be disclosed by the Premier in a.nother plac~.

HoN. F. T. Bl{K:'•J'rNALL: :\light I be allowed to make a personal explan;1tion? [Hon<>umble members: Hear, hear!] I wioh to say that tbe accu;;;ation agaiust n1e of having rnade reflections npun the PremiPr i~ nnt 1n accordance with the statement I mar,e. I di~­tinctly said that the Premier received me with the ntrno~t conrtBi:IY; he f!<tve me CPrtain valuable infornmtion which I felt jrt'tified in cabling that day tu London ; and I PXprt-' _,sed ru::,.,. pleasure that he is now carrying out the assuranee he then made to me. To sav that I caflt refleetions upon the Premier in co~nection with the inter~ Vl8VV is to Say what is flUite Untrue.

Question put and passed.

APPHOYAI. m' PLAN.

The SECRETARY YOR Pt:;BLW IK­STRUCTTON moved-

1. That tlH; Council approves of the v1an, section, and hook of rderenco of tltc proposf!d exten~ion of t.he Xrn·thcrn line. from Richmond towards Clone urn, in length\)() miles 'i3 chains, as receivPd hy me<:.'-:age from the Legishtive Assembly on the Litll ?\ovember.

2. That such approval he notified to the Legislative Assembly by me~sage in the usual form.

Question put and passed.

Tltane to [22 NOVEMBER.] Goondiwindi Railn·a_y. 17:33

LOCAL AUTHORITIES ACT AMEND­:\IEXT BILL.

FJHST RE.\ll!NG.

On the motion of the SECHETARY FOR PUBLIC IKSTUCTIOl'\, this llill, received fnnn the Assf:-'mbly~ wa~ read a tir~t tirnE\ rmd the second reacliug made an Order of the Day for to-morrow

'l'HA:'JE TO GOOXDIWI:!'\DI RAILWAY.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRGCTIO)[, in moving-

That the rPport of the Select CJommittee on the pro­po~ecl extension of ille Uooruliwindi Hraueh ltailw·ay line trmu 'l'hanc to <Joondiwindi be uow adopted-

_,aiel: The report of the committee is-ThPy have examined the witne%cs namecl iH the

margin. and haYe tal~:cll into consideration the report of the Commif:s.iont.~r for It:tilways npon the propo . ..;f~1 exremdon: rmd tlley !'f'CO!!Ii!IP!Ul thnt tbc plan, sedion, and book of rel'ercncl\ ot t.he proposed ex tunsion l>o appl'OYCtl.

The witnesses bei11g the Conm1i~sinn~r for Railh wayH and the Cbief Engineer. I would like to draw ~ttention to qmxtion i\lo. 37, put by me-

Do you consh1Pr that thi~ line is intenf1ed to tap the Xev;r ~onth Walt~~ trade-th:.tt it i~ :t host!lC; moYelllent ag·ain~t .\'LI.Y :-..ontlt ,,-a.h "r Xo. The mtentiou h> to llnhl our 0\Yn tr~uh·, anti to prevent ~C\Y ::-;onth 'Yalcs tapping tlle (2w o•n..-.land tratlP. \Ye do not wbll to interfere with their trade at all.

Tne Conuni~Hioner, in his report upon the line, .says-

I lmYe the honour to report as follows on the pro­l)OS8(1 completion of the Warwic~..:: to Goondiwindi Rail­way, the tirst. section of wllicl! (:!I· JJliles 2:1 chain~) was approYed ot by P-1rlialllent in 1900, and hat-:. ~hH'C heen opened for traflic. The ~nrvey of the propqsecl line comwencP~. jn:-;t bcyoutl Th:me ~latiOJJ 1at ~-1 miles i':iH ehaiul-i), anU. proceeds in a south-\H:~terly dn·eetiolll id Canal Crct-:k. fng-lc"·oo<l, anLl Hen g-alla to GoondhvitHli 'the terminus), at 1::!5 nrile;s 37 clmins from 'Yarwiek, leaving 10l) miles ;)1) chains to be constructed.

He goes on to say--The cost of the line, including OZhlh. rail~. ls e~tt­

matell at £2:2 ~±2 1£2.tHI5 per Jui.le). or, with IH;W -l:.3hlb. rails. J.;2:1:J, 1:{8 1 t2.3:~7 JH!l' Hlile); but, if f.;eeondhlwnd 10hlb. rail~ arc u~r l (\Yllieh ean only lJc obtained by reln.\illg parts of tile l'\:i~tiug line~ ·with fi:!-lb. rails), tlw eost ·will be redncc<l to £2HJ,8i~ per mile). Thi" relaying. hmn:n er, wonld involve an expen­diture ot' £2K, 1 7::~ to loan and £-31,26-± to rPvennc; and eveu then tiJe Goondi\Yiwli line 1.vonld not he ~o good as if we laid tL~Wll new 4:!-lb .. 1'aib to start with. I lJelieve the trnesr. Peonomr would be to lay Uown 0'2-lb. 1·ails ou tlle tH .v line, a~ tiw co~t of mainteH:lllCl' would be much le·,:-; than if llghtm· rails were used; but the extnt co:-;t for H2-lb. rails is -L: 1·7.101, and it. i:-; a questiml whether the State f'all atrorfl. this at the pn-:~cnt time. If uew 4:l-lll. rail::; arc laid down \\·ith 2.H±n ~leepBr~ and l.l!lO eubit• yard:-: of b:dbu;t t.0 the unle, the eo~t will be £2:~iJ-,-1.:l':!, ~md the line will be far snpcrior to what was originally laid down ou the main lint,_; on either tlle Wl'~tern, C\:ntral, or XorLhl--'1'11 ~.r~tem~. I quite approveofrelayin~ the pre--ent lines \Yitll (i2.-lb. rails Hll\l using the ~PCO!Hl-lnuld 'W-lh. rails on HC\Y

branch line-. \'rherc t1 a in~ run at re(lnCP(l s)we<l: 1mt in my opinion it is not advisable to tlo so nnlest:> the ±0-lb. rails require tflking np.

Tile value of the resumption:-; cannot be asccrLained until the w;Jrking plans ha\·e been CIHltpleterl; but it can only be trifling. as the line runs nearly all the way through Crown lands.

He further says-It is <1nite impo~sihlc to give any reliable estimate of

the revenue to be dcrive(l from lOU miles of railwa.y in .comparatively new country; it can only be done by

analo~~-, and I ~ive the following C"'\:amples of the valne of tra1lie to antl from ::..tations on similar lines for t11e year cndi!Jg ;)()tll Jnne la~t :-

11~ar'iYick to Tllane, 2.} mile~ (e"leln~ive of \Yarwiek). which run:-; Lhrongh an agri-eu!Lnntl distnet 5,7:!2

CharleYllle to Cnnuamulla, 121 mile~ !exclu-sive of CharleYille). which rnns through purely pa>toral eountry :J:J,833

The line from Thane to Goondiwindi. on the other lland, will 1H~ tbrong-h both anrt. agricnltul'al eonn.try. J..!'snming tltat the of trame to antl tl'Olll ~tatwns on the tn·opo~cd 1"tilway is on a par with tlle otlwrs reeentl,v eonstruete(l throngll ~nnilar conntry, tbc eom­pan::'on \Tould ~tand tbns-

Thane Line Cnnuamnlla T~ine Uooudi\Vincti Line

---------,,----

}!iles. 1 Yalue or ! ReYcnne

j _ Traili-~ I! -~c_:_l\lile. I

.t

I

£ :!?i il.i 12 2:10

121 R:l.,.n ~so

101 28,:2S0 2'31

After paying- 3lH~r cent. intel'E't on the capital cost of the new line, tlus would leave a ~mm of £1U,:Z:_m to\\ a1·ds the extra cost of worl\:ing- the tratne over tlle cx.i,:,ti.ug, line~.

He thPn stws-1 ~aw a pat(:\} of ,,·beat :tt Inglen:ood \Yhieh the O\\'~ler

cstimah'd wonltl Yie!tl LJ bn~lleb to the acre. C~'ell \nth the dr.Y ti llle thi~ · .p:ar. I..n:-:t ye;n· it gnve ;}: l lm~llcls to the aere. Tlw wltt :-tt was couvPyed to Tlwne hy road (a tli..;tH.nce of ;)0 llliles1, a;\!l but f.lr the .faet that it rcllised top price in the wal'l..::et it woulrl hnYe 1Jeen a dead 'to"~ to tllP grower. 'l'lli-::o ye:u it wElltare to lJe cut up as fotlder. There are tll'JU:-:and:->, and. I way ~ay, hnnd1e<l~ of tllou~;(uch, of £tt:res of B<!ll<..Llly good l:rl1d all l'f1HlHl Inglewoo(l aud on the WilY to (;oondi­windi. m1tch of which. althougl! at preseut ot·cupicd to some extent, is andlable t'ol' selection, ~o 1 !wt we may rea~onahly anticipate a Yery hf''tY,Y trallic to and from the district.

As to rainfall, the Cr,mmissioner says-'l'ncrc 1s a good raiufall in tlw di::<tl'i(',t. LaR~ ~:ea~

Ing1ewood rc,..4'i~tere(l ;)tUiS inelles, anll C~oowhwnH~l 2H.;,:).) inelles. The- aventge at [nglewuo\l and <:oondl­win<li for tile last. tWCill ''-ti\-e year~ has lwe11 :!,8 :u1d ~0 iuc!Jes pet' annum respeetin;ly. compared with:Winebes at 'Vanviek.

The extra rolling-,tock be estimates .will not C·JSt more than £60'), and he concludes h1s report with the following rccmnmenda.tion :-

For the reasons that tl1i:;: lme \Vi.ll promote eloser settlement, "·ill utilise a large arr'L of rkh land whieh is now practieally iflle and therefore of little nduc to the ~tate, and will retain (~m~cn~b~nd t raJ.e to .queens­laud ports. l strongly recomrucnll Its eoustructtOn, and that without Lleby.

I think this railwoy speaks for itself. Its object iH to conserve (~.ueensl<tnd:s b11rder trade to Qu~··~nsland, and t\) 1.Jring it tn its legi~ilnate port.. It reqnire.s no fnrther recoultllendatwn.on tny part, and I t.ht>xefore beg to nwve the 1not1on standing i11 my rutn1e.

Hox. T. A. JOH::'\SOi\1: The extension of this bonier railway fnnu Tbane to Guondiwindi Khall have 1ny :-mppurt. It requires no word::i of. mi.ne to recomtueud it. Jt i.~ a very old settled d1stnct thrnngh which the prnpo.<e<lline "ill pass. Tlwre are f1nU rea..::;ons why this line should be lllade. In the firsL plac8, the money wac; borrowPd for itR construction in 18H-t, and the pla.ns of the fir!'it Rection werE' approved by lJadiament in 188~). Secondly, the line iR of national i1nportancP. 1n preserving the border trade • for Ctueensland, whwh \\·ould otherwise go to ~etv South \Va.les. Thirdly, it will tap and go through some ,_,£ the best agriculturo.! land in Queensland, ad mnably suited for close settlement. And, fourthly, tlns railway, when completed to Gooncliwindi, wlll be one of the best feeders the pnrt of 13nsbane

Hon. T. A. J ohnson.]

17;3,1, 'l'hane-Goonducindi Rail1ca_y. [COUNCIL.] Wodcers' Compensatwn Bilt.

will have. The numer•ms :1nd valu:1ble pro­ducts of thi" large district nre bound to increa:-:e the shipping- in the port of Bri.~bane, and will alRo i~c..:rea::;t· its trade a,nd commprce. It will also be the mean~ of prest-'rving thP tr:-1de for c2nef'nol:1nd which the politicians of 1\ew Suuth \Vales are trying to divert nnd secure for that State. The Hon. E. B. Forr,st, when srwaking t1bout this line On :et forrner OCC~t~ionj and a.J,ptoviug of its con:-;tructilln, sttid-

1-fhat i:.-; tltc g-nocl in Q1wenslaud t1tc name of 0\Yning Janct if tlw Covernlllent allow~ tra(le and products ot that land to be Uivertcll to anol het' t-lt:LtC ~

Queensland is entided to the trade of this fine, htrge di.st1·ict. The land bnlongs to the St:tte of Qu~Ln.::;laud, and geographically Bri8bane is the nearest pqrt, Goortdiwiudi f-wing- only 2~H 1nilt>s frorn Hri;.;bant', ·while it is .)13 ndle . ..:; frmn Sytlnt>y. Some idea Ill:1y b,~ formed of the V<:t . ...;tness and irupmtaucr:: of tl.e di::ilrict betwf-'811 IngleW!IUd and around Gonndlwindi frnrn the figlll'e~ quctPd by tht:~ Pren1it:r when iutroc1neing tlnK line to the Lt·gislative ..:-\t-sen1bly. tfe btid statistic" ~hnwecl that before the drought there were 3,!}00,000 sheep in the rlistrict. Gnfortnne>tely thctt num­ber h><s been greath· decreased by the rlisastrous drought of l\J02. T!Ji., line will htp some of the fine:::t \vheat-gTowing land in Qnt'ensland, and when rejJnrchased, or 'vlH-'ll loasel:i PXpirE\ it will provide homes for hundred-; of f~miliPs. ...._<\..t the p:·eRent timA it would not pav farmers to grow cereals or when.t in that diMtrict~ a~ the ltmg carriage ratt>s by hor:-;e team::3 wnuld prevent the prorl.ncer frorrl cornpeting wiLh other parts of the St:±te nwre highly fanmred \Vith raihvay corn­n1nnic(ttion. 'fhilj lint-~ hHs beE->n stnlngly recom­rnenrled by the Commis,ioner for Railv, ay,, :\Ir. Thallon, and also by tho chief railway ~111'\·eyor, 1Ir. LPtbem. Both tlle~fJ gent lPrrlml i'Lre wdl known for th8ir integrity and impartiality in considering the welfare and interest' of the S:.ate. Tney are both cmnpetent judgeq on railway matter8, and are the be~t authorities on a 111:-1,ttt=r (Jf this kind that are :1vailable in Queensland. It is :1\-o well known tha,t the Bri:--bane Cl1alllber uf CtHnmerce has for a long time been ftwom·able to the con­struction of tins linp, un account of the irnport­anc~ and value tu the lJOrt of Bri;:;b1ne. 1 am :1lso pleased to find tlmt the Seh'ct Committee, to which the propo.·,al was rpft~rred, has ;.;ent in u report Ltvour,tble to Hs constrncti•nJ. T!!e line should have been made tv\'enty year~) ago, and would have be<~n but for cr:rtain pt1litical intrigues and c;hutfl.ing which I t18Pd nnt further refer to. If it had been construc•ed at that time it wonld have heen an imrnen~e benefit to the State. and would have settled a large popnhtiou on 011e of the finest di,;tricts in QneenslanJ. 1 look upon it"·' one of the be ,t lines that could be con:'>tructe.J in the State at the present tin1e, and I have not the slightest doubt th>tt it will pay, and pc1y well. It \vill give a great itnpPtm; to the wbe<::tt, r;ob;lCCr), and dairying indu~tries. One or two ehee~e factories bavealready ::.::tarted, and I have heard that a butter factory is to be st>trted in the district before ,.0ry l"ng, It gor;s w-ithout saying that the eonst1uction of the Jine will find employment for a large numlwr of men who an at present out of work, anrl thus relieve the Government of t.he nece·csity of providing other work for them. As I have said, the pro­poo.:tl bets my heartiest support.

Ho". W. r. TAYLOR: This line should have been con.-:trncted rna.ny year~ ago, and tha.t 1t was not then constructPrl i.s a n1atter for regret; but it is not worth while going now into the reasons for it. I am glad that ju,ticB is at last being dnne to the district, and that the trade along the Southern border will be retained to ~-,lueensland, in spite of the efforts of New South \Vales to tap it by the extension of her own

[Hon. T . .A. J ohnson.

railways northwards. It is aln1ost unneceA.sar:y to :1dv(,cate the line commercially, am! I hope it will be conBLruc:ted in the very ne:1r future.

Ho:\ . • T. r~ALOR: I may be accused of selfishness if I spe:.tk on this railway. The Hon. 1\lr. ~Tohnstm li'.'t:S at one end of it, and I li\·e at the other. I lmuw the country pretty well, having li\·ed in it more than fifty yt~arto. There is one thing iu itr; fav(1Ur : i~ i;.; better watered than any rl1strict I know in llueeu,land---by the .1\Iacintyrt-' Bnuk, the St:VPl'Il, and rnany creeks, such a~ Can11ing Creek aud l\to~qnito Creek,. which werP ut-Y(":'r known to run dry. T'l~t-'re is one thiug in the Cornwi;-;;-,ioner'~ report that I cannot agree with, and that is the rainfall. I bt'lieve it. i, over-e,tinmted. Only fancy a dry distnct like Goondiwiudi ha..ving had an average rainfall of 21; inc!Je, fur twenty-five years! If you knoc:k <>If the li inches it will be more like the truth. I llJake bold to say there lws n<,t been nwre than 1-l inches ::-tR far t:ts this year }laB gone. The Hon. Dr. Tavlor ,;ays the lille ought to have been built t\-venty Year-...: ago. If he had been !n his plac'e in the: Cbaml.Jer at the time that wuuld never ba \'e haplJdlt:-d. .A;:: to agriculture, it does not require very rjch land to grnw whPat so long a,.., ynn get the rain at the right thne. In the ltoma district tber.e are liO,OOO acres under wheat, this year, u,nd owing to ttJe lack of ll](lis­tnre thP. unfortunate grower~ \\:ill be unable to get enough SPPd frmn it fllr their next :.:owing. The­line should be cheaply con~tructed, as tht're are lots of fine timber and plenty nf ballast. I shall have much pleat'nte in ~mpp,Jrting the nwtwn~ I believe the line ought to have been built many years UROt (Hear, hear !)

Question put ttnd p:1ssed.

APPROVAL oF PLAX~, ETc.

The SECRETARY :FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION moved--

1. Thar tbe Couneil Hp}lrove:; of the vJan. section: ancl hool-;: of ret'ercnee o[ the propo~cd cxtcn:<ion of the (~oon<ii'lrill'li Ri'aiw!l Railwav li1w. from Thaue to, Co0mliwindi. in length 101 miles 1-.t ellaiJJ~, as nw,cived llY mes~;1gt~ from the Legislati\'e AssPIHbly on the 16th :.'\'nvcmber.

~. That :.:ucll apJll'OYa1 be notified to the J .. egislati"'IT As~em bly by me:o;~age iu the nsnal form.

c;)uestion put and pas~ed.

BRISBANE TRAFFIC BILL.

THIRll RJCAlliNG.

On the motion nf the SECTlETARY FOR PUBLIC IXSTRUCTION, this Bill was read a third time, p:1,sed, and ordered to be returned to the A'sembly, by mesange in the usual form.

BRANDS ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.

THIRll READIKG.

On the motion of tlw SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTIU"CTION, this Bill was read a third time, pct,sed, :1nd ordered to be returned to the Assembly, lw message in the mnal form.

WORKEHS' COMPENSATION BILL.

SECOXD REAill!iG-RESUJfPTION OF 1JJWA'l'E.

HoN. A. G!BSON: When the Attorney­General was intwducing this Bill in another place he said it w:1s one of the most important Bills' ever brought before any House of Parli:1-ment ·and hestatedthat theide:1inframingit was to bri~g in every possible person who might snffer from an accident of a trivial or a Reriou'3 charac­ter. \Ve were asked by the Secretary for Public

Workers' Compensation Bill. [22 N OYEMBER.] T!fTod.·m•s' Compensation Bill. 1735

Instruction to look up that speech, aud, if pos­sible, to nw.ke it our 01..vn. I lHtVP lTad and re­read It, and tht>n-~ is no doubt it is a vtry fine one. .•. ·\. Vf'ry grea,t dt>a1 of important rn:1tter i~ brought bebre hem. member., in i~. The Attorney­General travelled away down the n.ges to tell ns what had been dune in the days gone by ; be sh(nved the suffering that workers in the early days hrtd to combat lV1Lh in C<\~1:'.-; of acciR dent; he folhh"''ecl up the variuns provi~ion::.:; 1nade for their bcttern1ent; he introdue~d lll:1ny

eminent names, iudicG,ting thu gent.~o:-uwn iu tbe old country and other places who dirl tlH·ir be .. t for the needy peojJle '\Vho were ~nfferlt!L;; he indicated that tFlt're \>;'a:-:~ hardly any dtj-;ir.c tJll

the part uf emplo;'er."S t,11 do anythir.g for their etHpl~~yees, and ti1at ir; W3~ tleCPRsalT that legit-da­tion ()f a, verv severe charaetor sb.uuld be 111tro-· duced td p;otect the worker a.gai11.-.t the elll­ployer ; he told \vhat hall bet~n done iu \Vestern ~~nstralia, in South Autltralia, in XL'\V zf:~alaud, awl then he moved lwn1, wards, how, funn thE Acts In force i11 thu~e places, had taktm some hing, bnt be did no~. tell UR that there a1·e nmny thirtgs in Lho.se Acts which he has no~ taken.

Ths PRESIDI::"JG CHAIRi\IA~: The hon. gentlt>mttn i" nl)t in order in couuuf'nting npon a. speech nlcv1e by an fun. _mernber t1f the other Honse. Standing Order 109 snyR-

Xo lllClllher . . . shall comment upon any ex-pression~ reported to have hocu nsed in the J,~egislatlve Assembly.

The hon. gentleman will not be in order in tra­ver.:dng- a t:~peech reported tu ha.ve been rnade in the other House, though he may refer to it for the purpos9 of extracting information.

Hox. A. GIBSOX: I have marked crrto.in pas~ages in the ~peecb, and I thongl1t that, without reading them, I might corrnnent upon th6m.

The PRESIDTKG CHAIR:\IA~: Xo; you are pn~clnded frorn doing that.

HoN. A. GIBSON : 'rhe statements here mrtde are that this i1-;' an in1provement on any other DlClRUre that has ever been placed bt>fore any House of Parliament. I shall not :>ttempt to fo1lu\~r the Attorney-Genf)rnl nny further, bec!l\1.'8 I can get what I want in t.be iipeec:J of the Secretar> fnr rublic In:-~truetion, \vlw, in introdncing the Bill in this Chamber, fuliow·:d nearly line by iine the statemencs made by the' Attorney·General. \Vhile ti:e Bill inrlicatt.s that every per~on vrho rneets with an aecide11t Rhall he considert'cl, there is smnf-;thing wn..nt:ng-. There is only ono individual \\"ho vvill be s;erirJU:...:ly affecterl by an accirlent. The Secretary for I'nblic Instruction ·"::tid that thjs i"' HOt a Bill under ·which wen have right to claim rlau1Ug'e..; becau'e they are injured, but that it is "' l\ill which gives a rnan the right, when he is iujured, to clni1n frmn his etnplnyer because be is em­ployed. In ~hrnving what was nE-cessnr~· r•n behalf of the worker, the bon. gentleu1an made qul)tations frnn1 a gre[tt rnauy authoritie3. in reference to their opinion as to the duty d the empk1yer t!) Hte worker. To .v-ard::; tr1e clo~e of spee~b, he said~

\'re lt(:lYe no ri,gllt to leave the 'Yorker to 1ti~ fate in a break-ncek CO!lllJCtitiou. 'rho f.!;l'Eat eur~e of tlli~; age is the ,gre·jt COll~Jl .tit irm for shoddy eht>apnc~,,, an(l 1t r1i~re­g-ards tlle law of <:i-od and man ill onlPr that the artiele may l)e m:tdB chea.t;J~r and sold r:hc:qlly. ~\ ll the ~nt'i'er­ing infiicletl npon the workt~r is ean:o;ed lJy this pernicious principle-the JHtrsnit of cllCapnc~s ;lt any cost.

The question which one who has been in cunt:1ct with .worker.-: for a greR.t rnany years naturally asks IS whether the worker has been left in the !JOdition indicated by the hon. gentleman. I say

''No,:' and I arn in just as good a po.si~,ion as a.ny other hon. genth::'nwn to for_-rn an op1nwn. I have not arrivt'd at the cmlClnslon that the Bln­ployen; in this ~tate hare left tt.1eir \Vork~-H~n in their hom of need to ouffer w1thout trymg to 111eet the conditions BlHTOunding their caH .. '·1. I

UllhFsitatmgly say, after full in­[;).30 p.m.] quiry, that t.here has ~l.<.>t been a

demand rn<tde for tl11' B11!. lllave not Fif'en in the Pres.o:;, llOl' he: trd it slated. at any pulJlic meeting, t.1tat tLe w(n h:er~ have ft'lt ~henl-,-.:pJve~ iuiur~:-d :-mc:h a B1ll as tlt;s not heincr on the [Hon. A. Hr:suu-CIAF~'E: Thl•v h,~V\:: bet~n a~kiug for it fur year::-;.] [Hon.]'-,· I. l-'oWEl\: _._-\._ fe\v a;;itators ba,vt-.] l admit that the ch.ss of people whom the l-ion. l\Ir. Hinchdiffe med.s with ha' e se id this is the thinu we \\'a.nt, to have, but whet·e the agir.ator ha~ ~wt got anwng tiw pPoplu, uothiu~ of the kind has been ~aid. ~lost large et11ployer~ of laLlOln· do pverything they C<i~ 'u lJI'otPct. thPir en1pluyees, nnd to a~~i~t thrrn Hl CcJ.S~\ of ~ccidPnt. Thn Hon . .:\._lr. P.n~·tT told us what Is berng done in the mines at Gym pie, and thf' Hun. l\Tr. Plant 'vhat the lllineo~Yner:-:: arP duing f,\r their em­ployees on Cbartt'r:-1 'To\v~r~. . As for w:yself, I am agninBt a Bill of th1s kln.d, becau:-.e we alread·,, umke the reqni:->itt' provts!on in case of acejde~1t tJC death. 1 rnyef-'lf ha.ve a, dnnl policy for the ttJPn'.-:: protecti(ni: anrl ~~~ prcn·ide 1-'0llle­thing for 1l1elll 'I.\' hen they are .•nck, .and the n:en are willing and rertdy to ]1Ur): t.f1en· prLportwn whatenr it nL y he. Anrl 1t JS not a hc·avy bnrd8n thev have'-{) beax. rrhey are only asked to pay ld .. 111 the £, and in ca:~P of d~ath their dependant' are entitled to get£;)() Ktlm~htaway, a1,cl in c;l--d-~ of accidPnt they get half thf:'Ir salary whate\'er it may be, while they are out nE mnplnynwnt. The nwn n1eet tt1e ~n1[Jl~lyer on. tho>e term' willillgly, and I do not tlnnk .we ought to be; furced into a rnea:--ure U11der whiCh the enm]oyer wiil be c ,,lleJ npon to pay all. The n1~n ·are always willing to r11eet the '2In~ pi oyer.-. hulf way when he iR }!repa.red t? 1neet the111 in !.hat fair ~plrit. Only tlus monling· we read a stllry throug-tl tht:' ~able of the L(mdon· workers who nmrr..:hed throng-h the s1IT8ts, and on t'tH-'il' LannLr were the w(_lrd,:;:, "'C'1r~e ,\fmr charitY." And the men here would du exe,ctly the s3'nw thin!?'. Tt1ey do not WJnt to Jive on charitv. They are uwn, and are only too anxious t;) help 'thenu.,elves. I b(:liE'\:e it is nece"'""Y that. thew Hhuuld be a law "bwh shall cnwpel erery ernployer of l::th~~ur t~) su arnu.ge that tlw prnvi:--.1011 8h~~Jl be 1nade for tltt:ir 111en an aceH1ent occur. That L; aR far as we LfiY8 a right to go. The l{r.:~J. I\1r. :Power 1nadereference yeshrcby after­noon to ruiiJing, and l think he rnade (lnt 'a very good ca~e for tbt~ tuinf:'owner, and 110 one c~ n douht-. the ideas that hE wi::'1H:'d to pnt before thi . ...; _Hnn~P. Hnt cmniug froln tht~ mir~e'lwner down to tfw conntry, and you get <IHIOng! arrners. \\re hnve got. a. cLntse 1te!e for thE-· t--tgneultural hd1ourer. I want to H'l\' :Jt m•C'e thRt on rnost farm:-;, in making- provisinus for the employees, we t:tkc the ag-ricultnl·allabr-mrPr in with r~ll the o~ her~. J:\'ery n1ot~ht'r'F: ;:-un i:-' in tlw dualJ_:olicy; but; ()Ut .uuonust thn fanlH''rs whPre onr, or t.'ivo, or three. nw.n ZrA enga<~ed~wlto v.ould thi:1k an fH:t.:iden:. it; f(uing t.o take lJlaet· the1 e? \\ e ean never telL J\lf-:n at tintt~s ha.n-~ bPen known to do fooli:::h thingt1. and it is ntc~:ssn.ry to protect a nwn against hirn~t'lf. Cor11i11g down to tb~"e farmer:s-h~ rrwy he a ler-:_·,~fl whu n1ay U..:-:~ ow1ng £200 nr f:::;oo to s:nn' firw or to tht' G11 vennnent for the work he hn..s doue on his lea.'-;?. l-Ie ha.:-i got tu n1eet his eng<1gements then-·. He btu·; got a man worh.i•·o' for him and the rn:Jn get~-> on to a dray, and wt'7n dnes '~hat I Sa.\v being' done the other day-we heard the Hon. l\Ir. Power tellns t!1at men do things in their zeal whiCh Jeupardmes

Hon. A. Gibson.]

1736 Workers' Compensation Bill. [COUNCIL.] WoJ'lcers' Compensation Bill.

their life-I saw a man driving a f:um dray with a fia~h hor8e, and he stood with his t\'vo feet on the shafts ont;;ide the dray altngether, aml he had to hold the reins with onP baud :tnrl hold on with the other from the inside. ='fow, I otood and looked, and I thought, "That man is going to get down under the wheels of that dnJ.y." I dared not s"-:·· anything to him, because if I had done Hn I wnnltl have dra,vn hiK attention a\vav frorn thE'; hor~B and the c1 "ngerous po,.,itinn i~1 which he wn~, and tr.e h(Jl'S'4 1night have r1~n aW"Y· I would ha,·e been ii:cblP for that n,cci­dent if he h ,d falten dn\Y!l. }Iow conld 1 help myself against an aceH\cnt of that kind? I Sa\V another man get hi~ hand crn~hed through turnin~· ronnd and t.rving t,, do a certaiu thing with the wrong ha;1d. If he had stood currt-etl.v tn do his wnrk, therP woulU have been no accident. I h>Jlcl that t.he qnestion of cnntrihntory neglig-ence one of the things that still holdR f!Oocl as bet~veen matt and nu-tn. But we come h:1C"k to the farmer again. All that he has got wonld not an1oun t to .£300- you could gt->t his fann, prod nee, hnr,;;;es nnd cart, a.nd 8\'ery" thing elso for £300. A man working for hirn ca.reles~3ly dtl\''~ a, hors(-', and get::-\ d()'.>'tl nndPr the wheels 3.nr1 1~ killf 1. How is this fanner gt)ing to giYe his dependant~ £300 ~ l-Ie did not proLt'Ct hi . .., workm·~he did_ uot think- there was any occ:1sion to clo so-he '\Va~:. probably only en­ga·;ed cruma1ly to g~t a little bit llf work d1me; and the woman who lrlSf""' her hu.::;b?~nd is going to g·et £300 or £.!00, as the case m:1y be, and the other tnan lo..:e·~ the whtde of his lann to rneet that en ·e. Th.-:~t is one of t.he troubles whicl1 I think tho Bill, in itc:: f t.T·l't'HC11ing consequences, will bri1~g- ,tbout. The money is D~Jt. thet'e to pay a easv of thh~ kind, and I ha\·e no(lonbt there;:tre thommnd~ of C;UWR in <.oluee-n~hnd t;)-da.y in the country such rls l have descrillP'i. Dn;ing the drought \Ve have ju ,t had, t-'\·ery 1nan is doing his he.-.t to live-that is all. H1::: is depending- on the groc- r, the baker, and thA b•ltcber for his food, and he run' a bill with the draper, and that i~ how. he i~ living. He is only a working man--working bard to n1ake ends nlr.JPt, '1.nd he cannot do it, and we are bringing this Bill in with a, vi~w of putUng a, further burden on him, anrl you wi1l naturally t~end h1In nn}!)ng the workers. Ber -1,use he happens tn have a fann he is an employer. Hnndrf•cls of times I h~ve had men '"Y to me, "I wish I had st·<yecl with you and been working-. I would then have had ~ome n1oney in the hank tP~day, but going nn this farrn h.'1R lJeggarf'd tne. ' 1 Yet \Ve nr,:: gqing to pass t.o·night a Bill that wjll bear this :T1:ln drJwn, and they will not care what they do. They and their \vives and families \\'ill he thr11WH on to th~l unemployed list. A paper has lwen plac · :J i~ the Hou<e to-day coming- hom Childors:_and the association thc'"'re vnlnts t11 draw the attenti'~n of c >rtain hnn. gentlemen tl) re:l <mN for opposing this Bill in th1s }louse. I did not s '" it~i'~ was not sent tiJ Tne, but when T go l'tH11Hl thf' country I see the di~uonr:'~:~ements 'which fa,rtner;:; ha.ve and I do not \Vondt;'r, when 1: t,tke np the p:qwn;;;, to se(~ a, r8pori,, v,·h1ch no donbt other hon. gent1e­DJen have ~:<e~'n, jn the Cou1·icr tn.day of soJnA fift.y.five rnen who arA leavillg this State a.nd going a\vay to Nr~W Guinea. \Ve do not want to see that., but the"e tileD livin!Y in the North are he.cmning di~Hctti.sfied, and there are better conditiu11s ht>ld ont to then1 to le~n;e this State, and thPre are hundred~ of othPr n1en, \Then th~-::y find th.e effect of this buu]pn plac> d nptm them, vvho \Vl11 do the sarne. r\.fter havi11g accurnulated £100 or £200, and they think it will be takenaway, they will lea \·e that to th·-cir ·.vife aud children, and the;, .. will have to go back and heCPlne \Vorkers again. I do not think it should be the inten'ion of this House to pa's legislation such as that. ::E'ullowing the Bill down, I notice a clause in

[Hon. A. Gibson,

reference to contractors. There is no donbt whatever that you get the very best ont of a. rnan when you cnutract to give llirn work, an(i it a.ppt<trs if you contr~tct with a man to gi \'e him a portion uf any work-thPre ~M no indication of ally danger ahout it, but he rnay do ::;;ou1e fuolish thing-you have no control ()Ver that con~ tractor or hi:-: subcontract:or1 bnt ym1-the pl'in~ cipa.l-:n~ joined with him in any accident that arises. lf you try to take C1mtr,)l, it \\ iJl make the tng:-Jg"t'Inent yon nu:<l<e wit.h hin1 RO nn1Ch 111("1re cu~tly. But I hn1d yon cannot ha\·P. con­trol, and [ look tct it from this lig-ht- the ~Iinis­ter for Public ! n~trucbon wants to erect a building i11 t.he city. Re cannot engage with the contractor-he will not. Ctnne nnder that class, or at 1enst he v" a~ under the itnpre.-.~ion th~lt he wonld not, bL'"'Cath;tJ the vocation of a !milder was not his, n!though I tl:ink the Hon. :tvtr. l'owt-·r l,ut that on the (\ther side last nig·ht. I arn i3till under tbA i1npre~sion, after reading the BiJl, that this is the intention the A.ttorney­General w,mted me to be impre,sed Ly--that outside of lllV hui-::iine· ,,-if l \V<:.nt r,o paint a house or '\Vailt to pnt a. new roof on, tho..t is not rny vocation, and if I let a eontn1ct to a man and he gers killed, I am not re­sponsib1A; lmt were 1 a builder, and want to build a hou ... P, then I ;;;lw.ll be liable for the dmnrrges. Th>< t i' how 1 read it. I · hr<ll be glad to hP eniisrhtened on th;-tt ptlint later tHt; but I eannot ~ee \Yhv 1111e nwn, heccn1se he i~ not a builder, shoul(l gt·; scot-frPe, and another man, bf--'canse he is a builder and leaving the house for his \\rorkman to Prect, HhouJd have to pas. 'l'be;;::e are smne of the :1notrJ Jies tt1at are worthy of cnnsiderati1)l1 in tbb Bl.ll. I hold that we ha.,.·e no rL{ht to be made rP.::::ponsible for the business of the c,mtractor. He mav nut erect a safe scaffolding, and I could nn'· mly \\ !Jether a Sciffolding is a.'i good as it ought to be. 1 have seen people stanriing in tht: street nnd looking up at a scaffolding that had been erected to a height of GO or 70 feet, S8.y that it wa' quit<" as hig-h as anyone ought tn go, and if an accidE'nt h~Lp­penerl there, and they were on the jury, they would give a \·erdict uf ~nilty becau!-'e the 1nen were sent up tno high. Anrl yet they will put up a scaffulrli11g 400 or 500 fed in :'I ew York, an cl I do not think they lmYe brought in this \Vork­nla.n's Cll1npensatinn _.Act there to prote-ct thmn from that falL I will now keep nem·er the g-rnnnd, a.nd I ~~a~· tP-day and in the days to corne that hnnclrPds of ruen are going to be employed on the canefields to cut c >!le. They are dnin.Q" that with n kuife, anc1 the handle 1na.y hit a lea.f hangiug down and cnt acro~s hi:1 hand. 'l""'he contractor is 11ot a m:1n of t>traw a.s far as I kn0w~he is a hard-working lllU1J, anrl. is :1,ble to take theRe ten nr tv.r•'lve tn8n, and. they may make a go()(1ret.urn out (1f the contract thPy have taken, but when ::t n13n 1neets \1 i\.h an ac~ident., I, as the princip~lwan, arn the man of p,trav~', :;;o they COJllP down upon 1n:·· I cannot gt--'t a.t that n1a11. \Vhen vou tell 1ntn hR haR got to ln . .;;ure tbe-,se tt-'n rn--n,~ and tell birn if t"tnythin~ happens tn the;;;e nlt>n, under the law as lt stand:-; to· night, if the n1:~n killt-d ft.nd he ha.., been earning GF'!. a day, \V ill be entitled to a ~un1 of o\·er £:.:00 frorn the contraetor, but if be i~ making ]0.-:;. a day-aud a man cutting cane n1akes more than 10s. a day--he iR in for £400, wher<e ie the~ contractnr ihat. i:-; go~ng to cut canA? [The SECRETARY FOR PcnLIC lNti'l'RCOTTON : 'l'hat is in tlw case of den.t.h.] TlH· knife may be poi~oned, a.nd the medic.1l practitioner may say tfmt it was the effects of that wound that reRn1ted in death. That iR what we are cmning to-we are goiug to encourag-e this. I know that the Labour party do not encourage the carrying out of work by contract, <Hld because they do not encourage it there seems to be an

Workers' Com]Jensation Bill. [22 N ovE~iBER.] Workers' Compensation Bill. 1737

p]ement put in here that shall oiscnurage the carrying out of vvork by Ctmtract. If you do get the very best men they will put their best foot forward, and they will .-:trive to make the ffi(Ht out of it and gt>t the contract done, and if an accident haTJpens you, as the principal, \v·ill be the tir;t the labourer will go ro and make the dt•mand. [Hon. T. O'SCLLIVAX: You can in~ 1 lre.] I cannot in:mre-will the c1mtnwtor in~ure 't That is one of the ditfitultit:s of thf' Bill, aud there are ~t nutnher of other thingH as well l should like to refer to, hut I i<h dl "imply say there an>. rnany aruendmL•nts to be iut.ro­dt~eed into this Bill' in C(lmrnittee, and I hope to be here when the mnendruents a.re 1 !l._l.t, and I shall do \vhat I can tn 1mt.ke it a cornnwn-sense Bill, and see that it shall be carried out in the best interests of the worker.

* Hos. A. HIJ'\CHCLIFJ;'E: ~When introduc­jng thiH Bill for it~ Recond re~1.ding in another place, the Attorney~General gave 'ivhat, be aptly described as a lurninon~ exposition of the ,,t,tte of the law. ln my opinion this n1ea.sure is equal iu its irnpor!ance to any other nlc:asun~ which haH f:'V(~r be.'n intrndnced. It has bet!n :-::aid t'y sen~ral spe1kor~, durin~ the conrRe nf this dt-Jmte. that it has ll11t bPUl ~ought for by the workerH thrnn~;elve-", unle:-;.·,; :~tirnd up by the agi ~at01 :-:;. That iR not a fact. The workers in Qneensbnd and in Australia, to my kn(nde1lge, havt-', through their repre:dcntatives and organisati1ms-the trade~ uniom;;-repf:'atpily asked f{,r l"gislation of this charac:ter since 188D; and what I s,ty with regtud t" Qmetdaucl ha,, been experienced in t:\·ery Ensdi-:;h~SJJeaking cc untry where they bavt not hacl the legislation. 7J.lhe 1-lou. 1Ir. :Po\\'er, speaking- last night., made theren!::trk tb;tt there w .• 8 nuthing new in thi~ legis~ ]ation. Tllat is quite true. ']_''he principle uf this Bill h::ts been rec(;gnl;;;;ed vt-ry Inuch l1111ger than the hon. gentleman irnagineH. I dif:cOvt'red, in hunting up references in connection with this question, it ;, on rec,ml that 1,:'500 year,; before the Christian era, according to an old tTewil'lh law promulgated about that time, the principle was recognised in t'O fa.r thctt the servant or slave who loot an eye or a tooth, whether intention­ally ur unintentionally ou the }Jart of his nla.-;ter, the master was c oru pel!ed to allow that bla ve to go free. [:\Ir. PowER: They were very cheap then.] Although they may have been ver.v cheap they had ~ome recognition of their right~ even at that early tir11e, nncl so on we trace the history of this cb"<'i of legi:·dation dcnvn to the present tirnt'. Step by step every ]~uropean nation h"s c Jme to abaudon the iclea that the '' orker has no claitn for compen.sc-t.ticm except in cct:-:<:;~ where it can be proved to have beeu the result of neg·li­gence on the part of the errltJloyer, and the general fet>ling in aln1o~t every part of the wnrld now is that the wage~ea.rner 8houl• l g(~t cmnpen')a­tion in every case eXCPpt when" it can he shown that it ha~ bP( .. n c~1usHd by the wilful ·tnd serious misccmdnct of the employee. It was said also by J\1r. :I?owPr last night, it was nothing to us what was the legiHl<ttlon obtaining in othrr countrie:-::. I say it iR as important tba.t \Ve :-;honld know ·whctt if; Leillf{ done in othPr cnnntricR in ngard to these n1atters a,~ in rt>gard to other tnatterR. I do n•)t think any of our statutes are ab-;ulutely origina,l-we have to dr_aw inspiration from other parts of the world. [i\lr. Pmn;R: Plenty of them are.] That is no reason why we should not benefit by the expe,ience of other countries in regnrd to this legislation. The principle of this Bill, and most of ir s details, has been in operation in other parts of the ·world for rnauy yearl:'­sornewhere abont twenty or thirty :vearR. I will not take up very much time of the House on what I bave to say 011 tbis measure, but I would like, for the infonr,cttion of hon. gentlemen who

may not have looked it up, to refer to some of the princi1;le~ of th>". lav-.rs ·which are ohtan111Jg In ~mne {Jf the other cnuntrie~ ont.-:ide the old country, wlu·re an Act ;.;.imilar io thi~ is already in operatidn. _For that pnrpot-Je I m •Y '-'HY I have here a book entitled "The Jonrnal of the Institute of Actuaries," in which id contained a revit:ow of the 1, arious laws pertaining- to this sub~ ject in itll p<trts of the United Kingdom and "ther places. In Germany the Lnv w"s passed in 1884. Under thn,t Act the compensation comrnenct'S from the iourteenlh week "fter the accident ha.ppens_ Fur the tirne prinr tu that the \Yo.rk­nJen is entitled to l'elief fron1 <t cornpulsory mck fund, \\hich i,, 'upp~rted by the employ"r and the erupl,,yee. The benefits under the Aot are shown in a, publication entitled "Journal of the Institute of Actnaries," in a paper writ, ten hy ,Tohn 1\'ieoll, F.V.A., A.I.A., ,,f the Life A;:;sociation uf Scodc-..nd. He stn,tes~

After fonrtecn Wf'ek:-: the employer is liable for the following conJpew::alion :---

I.-To the injnre'i workcr-(a} ro~t of me(1i -·al care incurred from the com­

mencement of the l !d1 'iYeek after the occnr-n~ne~; ot' tlH~ accidenL.

ib) ;u1 allowance from t'oe 11cg-inning of tlle Hth Wl .J.: after the occm-renc,~ of tl11~ aeci(]ent,

the time of lu:-: ilH~aJ ~-~.eity, the ~amp, to acr:or1lmg to tne \Y:tges last

earned. Tllis all(J'i'\'}tl\('C anuHmtt' to 1. ln cn."e of total inrap<tt•ity, and duril1g

iis continnancc, HO* of the w:-tges. ~. In ('·::-;:: of partial inc·apncity, anrl. dul'ing

its cominnanee, n fr~1etion of the rate as t•er {1). the to be compnted in proportion to the \Yages~<!al'ning power.

of the worker, if death re~nlt.s

(a) Vnneml CXJlCHs£;;,; to tl1c extent of twenty times tllc <laily \\·ages, lmt not lc·~s than '1,'1 marks.

(l.J) 1. To tlle widO'IL till her death or re~marriage, 20 per cent. of the wage

2. 'fo each chiltl till a~e 15, L'5 per cent. of the wag·es; a1Hl. if thP child is already. Ol' becomes, alsu motherJe .... .:;, :W per eent. of tlJe wages.

:3. 'l'o progeuitors of decease I, if the latter was their :-;ole :-;nppon, ~0 per ecnt. of tbe wages until their c1cath, or nntll tlJ('il' m;ecl of as'iis­tancc cease-.;.

I would like to rn(-lntion abo in this connection, as I kno'iv t}~ere is an in1pression arnnngst those who have been inquiring into the question that tbe insnr.:tnce for ctnnpenR;~tion is l1rovided, like the ,ick fund, j<>iu~ly by the employ8r anJ the en1plo~ree. Th:tt is altn~.!Ather a. wroug im !1rPI-':->inn as shown by thi~ authority. He fiay:-:-

'l'he fuw1s for eompensatiug injnrf'll wor1.:men, and the costs of :t1lmin; ,tratwn. nro raised yearly by the elllplnycrs alone. in pro]lnrtion to the mnonnt of wages p~lid JJy them a]l(l the nntnre of tlllir emvloymeut. The wonnnen are not rcqnirecl to contribute at, all to the accictent fund~. altllouu;lt origlnally, app}trently, it was intPnde(l that both tlle workmen antl the~~ tte ~hould likC\\'be coHtrilJlltc. 'l'lli~ iciea ''as, however, abandoned bc[OI·e the Bill IJecame law.

The other .._c\..ct tu which T would like to n1ake a brief reference~ is tLP one which obtctinR in Italy. In its rnnin fea.Lnres it is Y"'rv f'irnilar to t.be law iu fnrce in Gt•rmany. It c;mtains, howPver, a 1Jl'ovisinn Retting furth the percentages for the loHf: of v,trinns limbs, ~o tbat there is none of Lbe rlilferentiatinn in awarde for the loss of cerLain limb' that there bas been under the :B;nglish Act. The feature to which I wish to direct narticular attention with regard to the Italian -law ie thc1t they have a "Fines and Un­clainled Comp~~1sation l'~und," so that if n,n employeH is killed, and he hr:.s no dependants, the fund is usd for the following purpo,;es :-

(1) In a:-:si~ting- the workmen who :n·e uninsured hecanse thpir employers have neglected to a~:-urc them, 110twithstaudillg the lCf{:ll depositions: (2) rro snbsi{lise the societies which undertake the help of

Hon. A. li inchcliff e. J

17il8 rVorlcers' Compensation Bill. [COUNCIL.] rVorkers' Compensation Bill.

injnrml workmen during· the flr~t fiye days of their illnes": {3) 'l'o ::>Hbsidi-:e the a~~ociations ~nld e~t;Lblisll­ments 'Yiliel1 provide medical a~:slsLtlH'r to 1J(~1·snns in­jurecl in tlleil' wol'k; aml (-11 To proYille pr(·mimns Jor the inYentlon of uew protectiYc appliance.-:;.

That is an exception:J.l and certa.i!:J:v a commend­able pnn·if'ion. The reason as.'-'igned for its in­trodc.etion i~ that it waR found that lWHJV nm­ployers, in order to reduce their liability: were in the habit of engaging nnly single 111en, and it wns to protect rnarriecl n1en thi ., pl'\IVn·•ion was inf"'erted.. \Vith rt~"P('Ct to tlw GPnnan htw, it hat~ been in oventtion f•lr twenty-one re:ll'.'-'. ])r. Bo( Jiker, who if' the hea(l of tbt> Gt'rm:-tn Ry,tem, brought od a book in lSDG, in which he "aid-

For fully tf'n years we h:tYe given fnli compensation from the en•u wlu:·n llHJ areiolent i...: can~P<l b_,. tl1e gro:-;;-; ot the workllJal,, Tlw e1uployers wbh lor llO elmn~rc o!l thb poll!t. Jf we }~re to ~top or rclltwe tlutt t•rJlllliCilsation ill ~lleh ea~Ps, t]Jc·u we onght clearlr to inerea::-e it in the case or grm;s fault of the emplorer.

In the "'"'h' work he said-'l'o stop compensation in the ease of gro.-;.s fanlt of the

worl\cr i~ to tln·ow a bOlnhshell into tl:e whole lll'illl'iple of comr1cn:,:at.ion itself.

I will not we,try the Cotmcil by any further quotation;;, but I find it particularly intere'"ting, in Yiew of the lt::gislatiou which we are now C\lll­sidt:ring, to learn tbat in all Enrnpc -1n conntrics then• t·xist:; at the pre:::;enlJ ti1ne similar le·,i::;la~ tiun, and that it ha,-; been fonnd to be <•f g.n at b<"nefit to the worker>, while it ha-, !lOt acted unjustly or h:ctrehly npou the empl<,yer>. It i" urged hf:'rP, a:-; it ha::- bc~en urged in other places, that it is going to have a . .::eriuu.-; effect upon industry. Xnw, since tbe Bill was first intro~ duced in the Hnm-;e of ComnlOt1~, industry has not ,uffered. I bclit'Ve the industrial prosperity of Great Britain i~ to.day grPa.ter than it ever was. I do not e>ty that is "ttribnt>ble to the \Vorkmen's Conqwn~:-rtion Act, but. I d(J sa.y that, it shows conchmively that it is not likely to ha\'e the damaging effect npon indu:-;try h~re \vlnch snrne pPople fear it nwy ha \'8.

(Hon. G. \V. Gtt.·\.Y: Ca.n you tell U"l \Vho 1s

respont--ible for the Ois:ribution of th] . ..; uwney arnnng the bendieiarieR in the cnuntri t>S to which you have referred?] I c,lnnot answPr tlYtt que-;t.inn on the E'pU1' nf the lll()lllent. One point which waR rai,ec! by the Hon. 1\Ir. Gib~on was with reference t1~ contract~,rs. Of C•lUrt>B he put the cai'e frorn his own point of view; but at thH samM time he ovBr~ looked the fact that thfC>re i~ :tnother ~ifle to the qne~tion. \Ye know very well whnt fre~ quently happen-, m'd I >'lll sure the H<Jtl. :VIr. Anuear caiJ bear mp, ont that it i...: not at all an nncorntnon thing for a, contractor not (Jnly to shirk hiK resp;~n~,llJility in regttrd to n1atters nf this kind, hnt to cleAT ont, 11. aving- hi;-; m~.-n rn~nl11'> their wage:::;. It is ab.:-iolntPly l18Ct>:-, -ary tbat. :.;ome protPcti(ln, such <1.R is C!H1tained in thi:-:; Bill, should hP giVf'TI. Slllll9 hon. ITlt?lllbE-'rR also Rt'etn tc think that, those with whmu I anJ a~sociated are constantly blarning the ernploYt'l'S for ru:-glect in tbe~e matters. Spt>R.ldng- for ~1ysPlf, and for otherR who are interested in the Labour move­ment both here a,nd in other place~, I ca.n say tha,t there it' no qna..rrei whatever with the en1ployers ns :1 clas~. It is with RystemR, not \Yith penmn.s, \Ve qnrtrrel.. \Ve find that in the great rnajority of cafle~ en1pll)yers en den~ vour to de.tl faitly and jn.-<tly by their ernployees. But that is ahsnlutely nu reason wily there should not be such a law as tbis to secure to those who are engaged in thp ad vancen1ent f\f an in~ du .trv f:Ome reparation for the d:nnage which they frequently ""tain. I wa,; ghd 1'<1 hear the Hon. Mr. Power freely admit the nece,;sity for such legislation. I think he only voiced the

[If on. A. Hinchcliffe.

opinion of all reRsonable eillplnyerR in Queens­land. I do not know that I have auything further to srty on the subject, except that I sincerely hope the Bill will nut be rnuterially altere<i in it~ vital principles. \Ve ha.\"e sirnilar la,ws nperating in Xe\v Zealand, SoutlJ Australia~ and \Vest Australia, Rnd there is absolutely no de"] re either on the part of the emvloyer.s or the \vorkmen tha.t the ht·.~·R should be remnvt:::d frmn the statute book, :ctnd exactly the same thing applies ill Creat lhitaiu. The Iiou~e of Lor(l::; ha< noC, onlv JHS<e<l the Act, but I believe ttn arnending Bill f-'xtending the pruvit--iqns of t1-:e .£\.et to ru::;rieultnrikts ha~ also pa:-;-;ed tbe l{ou:o;e of Comn11ll1S. \Vhile I aut JJl'(·'Jliired to admit; tha>:. c{!nditions :1re smnewhat different in n1a,ny rt..:.spect~ in a yonng counlry like this, that d{)e'~ not justify empl(lyt'e:-< being denied then ~tsonaUle cnnsitleration \Vhich it itt sought to givc-1 the1n under the provi,ions of this Bill. I bulieve it givt'S tben1 only what i~ dne to without tre~pa~ .ing unfairly npnn the right.-:! of emp],,yen, [Hon . .F. I. Powc~l<: \Yhat do you think ahnnt putting everyone on the- ~arne footing?] \Vith referenc~ to \\hat the hon. genL1erna.l Haid ab()lJt the ::\[ining Act, w~ri:t' I do not profe~R to ~peak as an expert in 1111nrng, I think it wonlrl act unfairly in rnany wa\'S to the llJinet For instance, nnd<>r the J\lining .1-\ct it iH no~; ~t que~tinu of dependants which enter~ into con-..ideration. Su far as it rt>late:; to industrial occnpaLiiJns generally, I ~r::e in this

Bill ttbsolutely nothing which i~. [7.30 p.m.] unna8nn<~,ble or unjust. Ic is only

the legitirnnte right which is dne tn e, man who is helping to advance the indnRtry in whjch be is employed. ]\)r the;..;e rea.-.;on,;; I give rny hearty support to the Bt!C')nd rBading, hoping that it. will not be materially altered during its pro~ress through cmnmittee.

Ho~d'. A .. JOHXSOl'\: This is a Bill to pro­vide cmnpen:·)ation to all workers for accidental injnrie.; t·mf!ered in the course of their employ~ lllt--mt. 1-Iad it hF·~n confined to what are known a;;;; dangerous or hazardous trade..;; or uccupntionsr it wonicl have h<1cl 111y ht>arty support, as I believe in doing justice to all cla.;;;~.c:;R of workers. .... l\..u1ongst ha:zLtrdous trades or oceupationR I in­chuh~ mining-, engineering, ironworL::s, tlw build~ ing trade, and other8 like them, where the work i"' dang-er(ms to the vvorkrnan. I ~honld be Vl--'ry glad to se· workrucn pr11vided for in ea, 0 of acci­dent in any of tl)ose occnpatlon~; at1d I \Va~ Vd'Y

plerrsed to hear from the Hon.lYir. Power and the Hon. i'vir. Plant hrnv, without any Act of Pttrlia­ntent., the 1nining companie'; on Gympieancl Char~ tArs Towers nl:tke urnvi8i(1Il to Colnpensate their workmen-to con1pensate them iu ca;-;o of acci­dent-by n1e \IJS of an insurar;ce, to which the worker~ Cl)nt.ribnt.e as well as the etnpb)yerl". TlF; l{on . .i\1r. Glbson n1ade a, similar f;ta,tPwent \Vith reg:1rd to sugar~workers, and sai(1 it worked very s:--ttil'lfactodl.v as between the men n.Hd his own firm. That seems to me an etllinently sensiblP plan, and one much nwre likely to crPate a kindly feding b~tween en1ploye:·s anrl en1-ployrd than if it waR reguhted by an Act of Parliament. The provi<ion' of thi, Bill are extendt-d to :ctll cla"'es of employees and to both sexe·•, iucluding dmne:-;tic servant~, agricultural labonrPrs, ::;hop a::;RiRtants, clerks in t,ffice~, ap­prentice~, a.ncl ca.Rnal labourers. It h:::~s been ext~mded, it my opiui(lll, beyond the bnundarins of rea~nn nnd connnon sen~e. The follo .ving cla~sef: should be excluded frorn its oper•tions :­Dornestic servant~, farrn lahourPrs, shop a.s<:>iB­tRnts, clerks in officeH, apprtmtieer:, nnd ca::;ual labnnrer~. Take the caRP of a casuRl iabonrPr, who gets a day's or a week's work. It ,, .. ould be a very great hardship to have to insure that man's life for the sake of a day's or a week's,

rVodcers' Compensation Bill. [22 N OVE:MBE!l J Workers' Cum)Jellsation Bill. l7;W

work. ·Experience proves that there is no danger whatever in the oc:cupationsi have n>tmed. I have never kno.,vn an in~tancP, dnring all the year:.; I have livPd at \Vanvick, of a :":lerion:-:: accident happening to a dmnestic servant while at.tending to her dome~tic rh1titcA,-nuthing, at any raJe, worse tban a :->calded hand. Again, take the case of fann labourers : I do not Lelie\'8 .1.u acci­dent hn.ppen" in nue case in a, thousand, except by t!Johtbuurer~' t)\Vn fault, qr carelt-'K.::nw:-s.s, or getting drunk, a~ smne nf them d1) ucca-.iunally. Lo(lk at the expen::-f' a :-:truggling farnwr wuuld be put to, and consider the ..... tatenH-'llt nf the 1-lon. ~f.r. Lalor that in hi;:; di~trict the farmers will not get Inure tlmn f.:e~d from their whe:Lt erop. At harvesting- titue a farmer 1nay bn.ve to ernplc,y ten or t q.1lve n1en, aud at thrashing time peth;tps the sa.tne nnml.Jer, fur not 1nore than t\vo ur thrt>e weeb. \Yonld it not be hard upon tho>P Htrr;ggling fa,rnHrs to ha\e to in:-:;ure tho~e 1ner;'s lives ttll' tht~ twu or three wePk.s t.hev are in his en1ploy? The pl'()~pect of this Biil bec•>ITllng law ha., already di:::.hectrtened snm of t,hr, far1ut>rs in rny dibtrict, t1n(l they Hil.Y they will either have to do JeH,, W<•rk or give it up <~ltogetber. A_nd the farmer::: ar~ ha.ving hcud titne~ at present, and it would be a great pity to still further cripple thmn by cmnpell1ng thern either tn insure the liYht uf tlu·ir nien, ur to be lial)le to pay £-1:00 for corn peu-.ation in ca;,e one of them tuet with a f"'t"l accident, which would sinlply wipe thent out ()f exiHtenct.. ThPn there is tht" ~truggling shopkeeper. I have never kno\\'11, during the la'H forty year>~' that I have been engaged in mercantile pursuits, any accident to happen tu any ..-hnp a:-;~is.tant. And it iK a, fact that ntany workers 111 shnp~ in const.ant ewploy­nlent are lH.::tter off than sonte einployer::;, a-.; the records of the imsol vency eo art sht>\~. ..A large number of then1 are quite unable to earn a living for tben1selvcs an(l their farnilies. ..-\.nd yet they are to he put tn this expe,Jse. Then there is the danger that if this Btll is pass,,d it will lead to <t lot of costly li \igation. I will ghe an ln~tance in voint : Not long Rgo a fanner in the \Var\\'ick district hccd a man mowing for him, and the rnnn happpned to cut hi"' lt-·g and had to he taken to the ~Varwick Ho,pital. In a few week; he was all right. But what happened? _-\. needy lawyer in our town got t.o bear of the case, \Yent to the hospital, .nd suggeHtecl to thi8 man that he shonlcl sue the hrmer for cmnpens::ttion. He did HO, and in C'(!nrt he said he would not have sned hi:". Pllll,loyer but for the ad vice of his l<twyer, who Snid he wonld take the ease on chance, wit.hout any ft'e, and would be sati.,fied to get what he could out of the farmer. The judge gave the lawyer a good dre~:-.ing-down, anci the lawyer waR so ashamed of hi1melf that a very short time after­wan],; he left t,he town. Cases ,,f tbat kind are bound tn occur uudt~r this Bill. Ag;lin, this Bill'' ill have a very injurionR effect on travelling workerP, who call at privn..re hou~es for odd jobs. Dtl;r,ens of strangers call at tlH~ private llonse~ in )Varwick evr;ry wet'k a.,.;Jdng for a jnb at cut.ting \vood or rloing up the garden. If y()u give :;;ucb a man a day's w:~rk, and he happens to cut bi8 finger, you are liable. I know tnat 1f the Bill passPH in its present form, and rt man cornes to 1ny hun~e and ;~sks for a job, I \Yonld 110t give it him, 1: ~eansP I DlW:"t eithet· inf'ure hi.-; life nr take the re;-;ponsihility of n~aking hirn cmll­pen~ation. The lion. 1\Ir. Po\Ver in~tanced other cases of that kind yestmday. In fact, under thiK Bill no person will en1ploy tra\'elljng workers. The Bill is too one·dded altogether. It is all compen~ation for work("'rs, and nn con~ sidera.tion for ernployeri-'. Even if the emplo:n~r asks the worker to contribute to·,·.·ards his o\vn in­surance, and he agreeg to do so, he can sne the en1-ployer for the amount he contributed and recover

it. 1,his seems, to my n1ind, an infnngeruent of tlw rights and liberties of " few [Vnple. This, perhaps, i~ onl- of the rnost nnsui table times that a Bill of this kind could ue introduced--" hen employment i~ ·:ery diftic:ul'. to be obtained attd trade low. Employers, I think, :::.lwuld he encouraged rather than discmU';t:;Pd at a thne liketbi". TlwrParc, hnndrPd~ l)f Rn1all enlp~Oyt'tS -farwer~. stort->kef-'jl8r", but,cben:, l_Jn.lcers, and otlJt'TS~who C<Hl just. make a }j in f.{ at tlw fH:f·Sellt tiuH-', and if they have to pay inf'.Uranee for all tht~ir hand~ it \vill be a verj' ~Cl inn.':\ <::.nd b<-'~n·y tax upqn them. I Wtmld likF jn.,;;tice ~)n both si deN. y~~ p, all pride OlH't:it h·c on bf'ing- Britons nncl ha'>:ing Briti~h \Vell, if justice i~ nH·te(l on:, to one ought to h2 n1eted out to bntb, :md I think to have cmupPn~ation and m~~ke it 1:-:0 easy for workerH tc Kllf:' their employer~, will turn ont to lJe a Yerv great hard~ RhqJ. Cbu~e 3 of thi.-: \Vnrker.s' C 'rnpensati.on Bill tht' workf-T pn\vr•r to appeal toR vohee

hnt if he ha.':\ the h"Orst nf it, and if it-i over t:1o, he c:tn take it tn the Supreme CJurt. ,Ju--t lo()k ;1t the Pxpense a sn1all hn~ino~·:-: n1~Hl or farntel' will ht"' put to in defending a ca"'e in the ;:.;nprewP Conrt, and if the \v·orker tcd~Ps the case to the Sn1~reme Conrt, and l•'E-~~, he is nut worth powder anr1 1.::hot; the enlp1oyf'r cannot get a shilling from him. [An honl)nntble gu1tlt:1nnn : The insur:tnce cmn­panie,J will l••ok alter that.] Th:~t i,; if he doe-: insure. This, to my mind, is a e;rm~.t hard_­ship on the omall employ<cr. In cl2,use 10 I think there is an()ther an0111tdy. ~F'or irmtance~ the principal and contr.,ctor are both liable. A farmer who ha~ just seler,ted land, and wants to buihl :1 honse. if he let~; a cuntract for the {~rection of that house, a·ad it turn~ out that A.n accirlent hrtJ,ptm~, then he ha~ to pay compenP.ation. [~on. T. O'SLLL.rYAX : No, he has not.J \V ell, [ think accordlllg to the Bill be has. Or if " farmer w.mts tn clee~r land and he lnts out a contrac~~,vhich is a v~ry nHutl thing in any fanning di:..;tric.t~ if he letR that contrnct to a. cnntractc~r, I th1nk it v1nnld he a Yery hard thing if tLe farn1er t;hC1n1d bR Ye to pay cumpc-n~rttion for any accidt-"nt that might happ<"n to the contractor. [Hon. T. (J'~l'LL!YA:-<: In thot cctse he would ~aYe to pay.] ls it rra..,onable for a man \vbn goes in fnt' elcaring a vaddock tn he cnn1pelled to insnre t}le Ji\-"~-' of all the men that the c.mtractnr Pnlploy.-;? Chu~~·' 15 is another very hars.h clctuse. ·under tba 1 clause nn flgreement IS

allowed bet.ween Ptup1uyer and Pnlployrf' with rPgard to cntnprn~;'ttinn. If a, workPr rna.kes an a.grr~ement that he i~-; ~1ot 1·o rec~ive :lny c?mpet:­satiou and that bP will be careful In doing lns work, 'well thrn, thi., Act cnmes in and overrides th:-tt agrPement. and he hHR to ! rty compPnsation all t]Je tirnf'. rnder cl:JU'A lG, if Hll employer a...-kH or receives from his en1plnyee any J->nrtion nf the amount paid for inNurnnce, the. err~ployt>e can reco\"Pl' SP.me nftrnvards by brn1g·Jn~ an act inn into cnnrt. \V e ha.vP hoe1rd already frorn hon. g-r11tlemen who have: s.poke11 th~t. it h.as boen the u~nal thing, }·otlJ 111 tt:e guldnnn1ng diH~ tricts and al::-o in the sug:-u-growlnS( di~trict.s, that thP wnrkPrprovide~ p;n·~ of the in~m1.·ance J\l'Pniinm, and I th;nk that is bir at"J eqmtable b<Jtween n1an and ul&n. If a. man recein~ . .., tbe \Vhole l1enefit frmn the in,c;.nrance, it it~ only reasonable that he should share in the amount of tht> pre­rniurn tl1at is pa.irl t0 CO\''-T that risk. There are other clauses in the schedule which I think are prettv stiff. It is proYiderl that where a man is paiD 'low wage~ he tnay reco\·er up to £:200_ c~r .£400. I do not think these chuses are expltctt enong~, aHd they ~hr,uld be nta .. de ele:1r, so that both the employer ancl El1ll•loyee should under~ stand it. Then there is another clause dea,Jing with wl:role or partial incapacity resulting from

Hon. T, .A. J ohnson.]

1740 Worl·ers' Compensation Bill. [COUNCIL.] Workers' C'01npensation Bill.

an accider:t; the em]Jioyer is held liable up to ~400. There is also a clanse dealing with the mfinn worker, ancl I think that will tell tllost detrimentally upon the olcl men. It has already been stated by an ho:t. gentlem"'n th"t old men werP not as a'?ceptable for ruining \Vork as young and ~ct1 \'8 ruen Wf'1oe and after all if this Bili iR to be enforc~d th~re will b~ ~mne rea:-;nn for it. In that. casP thf'r~~ vvill be. <:L he~lvier liabi.lity, and the in--tuauce pre­llll\llll wrll bt"' heantx on tho infinu nu::~ .. n than {,n a youngel' man. I know old rnen are very useful about the house, and I he\ieve if this Bili is pas.-;ed-if C<l.snal l"Lbourers are iuc1ud, d--that these tnen v;,dll not. get any eiYLploytt~ent a,t all, because i::Un1e old, ~wkly man. 1uay ~u into your ernployment, and go hotue ill, and th·::n st·r ~·e yon with <-1. hill for hospital fees ~tnd uJedJcal fees, ancl all the rest of it. \Ve lmve Jm,l j,;st:wces in this State of deeeption in cnnneetion with accidents-a, Yery seri(jus uaRe, and hon. gentle­rnen would rememb~c;r it \'ery wPll. That waR the case of the rnan J-Iendet ,,on, who carne over from. the other ;:)tates, and fell nut of fl' train. Tba..t n1an ::;uccujded in dec8iving the doctor:-', and in one t'l' t\vo cas;-_:::; the doctors \Vt:rfl trying lu find ~on1e ~cier:tific nmne to def'crihe the ::JtJinal injnry tln.t the 1nan h:td su:;:tained. I-It~ \Vas found ont afterward1' but not fur a long ti1ne, anrl. he (leceiYPtl t.he ln~c11cal :men in thA first inst:lllce. Thi~ only :-;bows how far the pnblic can he iropilSed upon ~n nwttt-"rs of injury \vben even rned.ical nwn c 'Il be deceived. I hope the Bill will be 'o altered tlmt there will be no romn for· any nntnber pf lttt'll to impo:-:.e on the Jmblic in this way, and that the Bill will lJe f':'ir :1nd equitab~e both to etnplo~rer and emM ptoyre, and do jn~tice to both pnrtiPR. This should be the aim uf thi" Chamber, and I have no doubt that thtl Hon-e will do its best to protect the cmplnyer '" wdl '"' the employee. (Hear, hcear !)

HoN. P. 1IACPHEHROJ'\: This Bill induces very mixed fe;ellng~. \Ve may, perhaps, recog~

nlt-~8 fJil the onA hand that there is [B p.m.] no logic:t'll justice in it to the ernM

player, but admit on the othPr the humanity of rnit.igc1ting the te.snlt!-; of accidents to empluyees. Tl~e Biil, with certa.in alteratiunf', appear~ to n1e tn be ba.HPd upon the \V.qrklnf'n's CompenFlation _._4._cts pa.stJed ]n Engla.nd in lfiGI and lHOO. I have here a comment>1ry upon tho:;e Act:"; by lvlr. Ruegg, I{. C. This cm:wnentarY or book h·:s bet·n qnoted aR an nntlwrity by· the AttornPy-(:ient~ral. In his introdnctiou, :\Ir. Rueg~· c:ritieises these t\vo Acls, therefore, the Bill w2 are now considering. The opinion of :1\Ir. Rt!8gg iH jus~ aH good-perhaps I rr1ight {~\'en Sl\Y wtthuut bemg offerbive-perhape a little better than that uf the Attvrney-G,·neral. He says here-

The pa8:-:ing of tllc \Yorkmrn·s Compensation _Aet, 18l-l7. ::1nd ot' tlu~ 1\"m·kntcn'"- Compcn <ation Aet. 19d0, wltidl latter AcL e,ame into rJpcra1ion on bt ,fnly. 191ll, lm~ placed an Hildltional anfl li:il)i\itY HllOn tht: majority of' employers in the Kin:..:do.m. · These t\,·o ~tatutcH arc the ontc1nne (;[the several efforts \Yhif'h lwYr> hf~c~n ma,;ie from time to time to amend and extc:ud the Employer~,· UifLbility A(;t or 1 '"i8d. bnt. p;o far1w_rontl tlte inlendmnnt of mH of ~nell ~chcHH">. The <l(l(litinn of the t\YO \Yorkmen ·:;:..~ Com ptn~ation J.l'ts to the somewhftt patf'l1worl\: state of tltP 1il\\' upon the )111V'h n ',cd qnC'stion of cmployf'r:-:' linhilit~· H!ay be said ro han) rendered a state of confnsion \YOrse con­founded. Tlw~e latter _.-\_t~ts are ba~t~d UIJOn a principle hitherto entirely unknmvn to tlle Eu:;ll~h law.

Tlli~ 1)rineiplc involYes the recog-nition of a ri;.!ht in tho~e engaged in \Yh;-jt has been eall~d the" inrlnstri~l warfare of Uw country.'' to be indemnified against the rcsnlts of the atwidt-mts necessaril~" aeeollllHI.ll.dng a sy~tcm of work mtrried on at high pressnrc and with keen (~ompctltion, by reg~trding them }LS an expense incideut to ll~·odnction, and by this legislation ensuring that they nltnnatrly become a charge upon the public, [or whose advantage all industries are carried ,pu.

[Hun. T. A. Juhnson.

[The REO!lETAllY FOl\ ruBLTC T~RTltCCTION: That is what I said 011 the ..,econd nading.J

The atteltlpt. is lltaLle to hnng allont this n, nlt. 1)y plaemg tlle rc-:pousi!Jility fol' all aCCltlents, in t lie tirs.t. pb:c0. not directly on the pub lie, or. as is clone iu suwe conntrie.:. upon the trrLde as a whole. hlll npon eaeh pmticnl>tr employer, in tlw helief tlmt, by co1npelling him to regarti hi.-; liabilit.Y <JS :~ trade cxpelJ~o. the ebn'gt~ ntay lwcome ~vrea<l. and fiually fall tqJOll the ngllt ~hou!Llcrs. The ~\<:t:-:. a.rc of a tentati\'€ cllaracter, and ot ll<Ll't:al alJtllir:ation to the industries of tile eomttry. ~\o one has attemptc!l to defeuLl theJu as logical mea:.:.nres. Intl~P<l, tins conlcl not })(~doll(: b\' the lllo.-;t. Jllan~ilJle pleacler. for the ellt:ct of the :\_l'ts is to make the law of Clllllloyers' liability illogical to a c1cgree almost ltvlicrous.

There ie ot.her lan'(nage about it, but I think I haYe rf'ad enough td Rhow exactly what the scope of thi~ legislation i~. The l~nglil:lh Act of 18D7 liruit~ the lia~Jility for conlpHISG~.ti,:m to cer­trLin ventnr~ f'i or undertakings which have pri11ul facie a certa,in ele1uent of danger. Clau~e 7 of the Act ~ay~ tbis--

'l'his Act :::.h~tl1 ::q1ply ouly to employlncnt by the uurlcrtakers a,s hcreinaftet· detined, or in or about a Tailway, taetor~-. mine. qllalr.Y. Ol' en~inef'rilJ~· IYOl'l\, and t11 1)Y t.he UJHh~rtakcr:o ~n:; hcremafter ddi11~d on. or al)ont auy hniltling \\·hiell ~XI'€2!ls tllirty feet in an(t if' eit hrt· !wing COll:->trud.crl or rep:Lired h.r rnea11:-; t.)f a :-;,'all'clding-, or be in~~ d "'ll1olblH'd, or on ~hich macllil:Pn dri\'t'll l>r \\'<tter. or olhel' mcelwnic\-Ll JH)Wt'l: i~ being nSed !or JHHpo::;e of the constl'nction, re1Jair, or Lieuwlilion tlwreoL

The English A'ct wns extPndecl by the 1800 Act to agricultural work~. Of course, a..:; hon. gentieM men are aware, :t large amount of agTicultnra.l \vork i:-:; dn~1e in J~ngland hy tnachinPry, sornp, of which is of a Yer.Y (lanferons cha.ractt->r. \Yhat is the >1pplicalir>n of this Biil? Thi" Bill applies practically to alwo:-.t e\·ery indnRtry in the country. One eoulJ under~tand in England the rea:-:on the ..t-\ct:'i p<l·''·''ed, and \Ve could e\·pn undpr­Rtand it here if ic-.; opPra,tinns \Y(~re to he less general than appears by this Bill. Thi" llill ''"YS this Act shall ><pply only to employment by the empl•,yer. It is almost a piece of fmrcasrn. Clause :3 recJds-

1~llis .\.et sh:1ll a11ply only to employment by the employer on, in. or abont-

(l) Any in<'in~trial, comUJercial, manufacturing, or bnilcling work, carried on by or on behalf of tlte employer as part of bi"! trartc or businc,{s; or

121 An~· agrieultnca1. horiicnltural, or pastoral work cal'l'ip;d on hy or on behalf or the employer as 1mrt of his trade or bu~iness; or

(:.5) Any mining. qnarr:'in.!.;. engineering, or hazardous work earrie(l (Jn lJy or on lX'half of tile employer, whether as part of his tnule or hn~ine,~; or not; Ol'

(-±) Any WtJrk C~trriccl. ou hy m· on belullf of the Govcn!ment of (~netmF-l<mll or any lor>al f!nthority a~ tllc emplnyl-)r, if the worl~ would, in tile ca~e of n printte empl'Jyer, be an employ­ment Lo whieh thb Act apvlies.

The opera.tioll •)f the Bill is ~o extensive tlHtt, if 1 wi:.:l1 to det.!peu 1ny wt'll, ::tnd ernploy a 1nan for half a da.y, :tnd he lllPet~ \Vith ar1 LtccidBnt, I arn lialJle. [The S!Wl<ETAR¥ ~·on l't:BLTC IKSTHCC­TIO~: Are you 'l 'Nt'llMI"illkP.r '!] rrhat has lwthing to do with it .. r_rbe .1_\_cl- <lJJplies to" _._-\..ny lnining, qnarryin;:{, engiueering.~ or hrn:;:l..rdous work carriP.d on by I)T on Lehalf oi the eUJployer, wht.•ther as part of hi~ trade or bu~itttss nr not." 2\Iv huRine::;s iH that of a, solicitor, Our-~ nnh,ide of that, I w,mt a well sunk. [The SEUI<ETAHY FOR Pt:BLIC ll.\STRPCTIOX: Ynn eng~~ge a n1;-1ll l1y con­tract.] I an1liabl~ if I eng·~tge him a~ a l1bourer. As I read the Bill, it applies to labourers by day as well '" by the week. The more I pern'e the Bill, the illOre objeDtions I HPB in con~truing it. It will furni"h a ,p]endid field for litigation. Clause 4 says-" The employer shall not be liable under this Act in respect nf any injury '\vhich does not di~ahle the worker fur a pPriod of at least two weeks from earning full wages at

1Yorkers' Compensation Bill. [22 NoVElllBER.] 1Yorkers' Compensation Bill. 1741

the work at which hP was employed." It is a great pity that the At' ornt"y-(~eneral, when he spent :-o n1nch time 0Yer thH Bill, did not rt:>ad a littlt" llHJre frorn 1Ir. Rnegg\, book. HH nri~ht have seen thi.'-: in it.~

IYIH-:n mu~t. the t\Y() wt-rks ocenr; r_]_'he Ar~t does not say tilat tlle two '\Yeeks rl'ff•l'J,·l1 to 111n~1 he tlw::-e irumeflintPly ~ueeeefiing the ti1z1c of the injury. uor, although tlH~ WOl'fls ill tllP scht~clnl~ \TOnld tqqH:'Hr to inflicat. :'ill('h llleamng. do we t Jli.nk thn· can be so C'Hhtnwil It often lli!Jl!•f·ll~ that at1 lnjll1'." may CalL~e a workHUlll tu ah:->Cill ldlll:-(·lf from work for a few flitY''· and liH'll he llla,r rutnrn oHly to dL...;tO\'f'l' afte1· ;L sltort trial that lw caunot eontmue tlh~ \York. This ll1<l.\' lH!ppen ~C\'eral tinw~. In ~uch c·tscs lllLl~t the Yarion~ JHTiOil~ dnring wlJiC'h tile h1jnry has camwLl abstention from work be atltl.er1 to\!"dllPr, aur1 when theY 111akc a total ot two week,.; floe~ the right to TPtX'hc CCHlli·Cn~ation be.~in. or it lJe~iu aftel' lhe work111an i1a;:; canwd ~olltt'iliing tltan lull wages in any two weekl' after the aechlent. r Seeiflg there is a doubt as tot he 1neaning of the words "two week~,'' 1 a~k \vby that wa!--l not corrected in this Bill? \Ve ought tn correct it in cornmitteP, find I look f{lr the: at-Jsistance of the lion. ~.lr. O'Sullivan. Then, I think clan~e 14 ought to come out. In Sunth .A.ustra1i~t, 1\e\v Zt'ala11d, and EnglRnd, if th{:n~ i~ a suh··mH::' of a.rrangen1ent between the emr,loyer and his empl1 •yees that wi1l furni,,h a sati;.,fac.tury coln­pen . ...;ation, th;;lt ::;chen1e can be approved, in EIIg'­lanfl h:;· the Hegi~trar of H'r-iend!y Socit~tiP~:, ~LHd in New Zealand an'i ~onth Au:-:tralia by tbe Governor in Council. I have prt'pared an amendnH-nt deal:ug v.ith the ~ubject which I shall n1ove- ju ~1~b~t.itution (,f cl'tuse ]4. [The SECRETARY FO!t Pl:BLIC lN~TIWOTION : Th,tt wili bec(•lllP a contrctctiug-oat c:lau:-:e.] The wurcb iu the EngJi,h Act are the.,e-

If the TI.Pgi....,trar of }'ri.cr::dly ~ocictic:-;, a[ter taking steps to a::wertain tli(~ view~ o1' the employer and. wol'li::­melJ. eertities that any ~elwmc of eOJll}J(·n~ation, lwnctit, or in:-;nrancc for tlle workUJen of an employer in any employm •. ut. wlletlwr or not. such sehl-'lne il1clndes ot.ller ellliJloy(·rs antl tl1cir workmen. is on tl1e whole not le":-; favon!·ahle to the hocly of "\\'Orktncn aud their deprndants than 1n·ovision~;..; of tlti~ Act, the eltqdo.\'Cr may, until the certitkate is revoked, eor:t,ract ·with t.n.Y of tho:-:;c \YOl'l\:JilC\1 that tllc provi~ions of the sclwme 1-1llall be snh .... tituled for the pro\'i.o.:iolls of tlds Act. aurl ihf)l'f'HllOll the employer Bhall be liable only in aeeordanPc 1-rith the l-el!Clne, lmt, ~ave as afore~Hill, this .·\et ~hflll ap]Jly. notwitllstanr1i.ng- any contract. to the cont.rnr~, m1u1e after tlic commencement of this Act.

In South i\.ustralia and N~w Zealand the pro­viRion is : "If the Governor it! Council, aftt:r taking Hteps to ascertain, etc." I intt-nd to rnove that as an arne11dltleut. I certainly thi11k thnc if the Hill is to become law, it ohrmld he on the lines of the ,~cts in furce in the other State". I am not aware tha.t thPre i;.; any pruvcr prcH·i­sion in thP Bill for a divi~ion of damage-; ar11o1JgBt dependant~. Then· ought to be son1e provi­sion by whi~h the widow shall recelvH so mu~h and tl~e children 80 111uch. By Lonl C;tiillJbt'll\:; Act, provjt'ion js ma.dt~ for ti;e jury npportiuning the aDlOllllt to be giren. Smne ::-1wh protPct.ion shouid br inser':;e(l in corranitter. 1 t r11ay also be a subject fnr con:·dderation 'vhethrr or not., when a nuu1 ice: in receip~ of relief frorn a benefit society npon tlh~ f'.f'.ore of being ill, he shall al~o be entitled to receive corupensation undt-r thiK n1ea~ur<-:. I li:-.:tened with great a.ttentio11 to the "drnirable 'lweches cleli vered by the Hon. 1\1r. Power, the Hon. Mr. Pbnt, and the Hon. Mr. Gibsr,n. They all looked at it fro:n point,; of "-'iow to which I am 1wt accnstnrned. 1 do not know rnncb of the details ot the elnsses of busi­ness with which they deelt, but I can assure my friend, the Hon. :'llr. Power, that I shall be happy to support hilll in any amendment~ he may bring: forwano in order that tlw Bill may be marle as just as po.ssible undP.r the circun1stances. I hope that when the Bill emerges from cmn· mittee it will be satisfactory to the country.

HoN. \V. F. TAYLOR: I am not an em· ployer of htb\lnr, and, cons""'qnently, this Bill will not afft:ct 111e \'(·ry rnucb ; but it appr"ars to be Yery fa.r-reachiug in its effect~. \Vhile we are all anxitm,s tbd,t eruployees slwuld be protected as niuch ab po:-:;t'iLh·, we ou..:ht to be careful not to err nn the other --idt'. Tlle Bill apprars to be likely to lHlVe a r~: ... tricdng iufiuet1CP 111 rEgard to tlw t~mp]tlyment uf cmmalla.tJOur. }..,orPxa.mple, I 111ight dt·slre to put up a. ll':"lW fence. But if I enga~e a 111an to r~nt up t.he fence, if he i:-; in­jun'J vvhile erH .. :aged in the Wdrk, I amli:1ble for daruageR :1ccording to this Bill. llnder the cit cnrnstanct>s, it is likely tP 1Jl'd\'"8nt the work being unrl.ertaken. Again, if I have a stnall padcL;ck which requil'es cle~uit1g, and I know ~orne \>.. C)rthy rnen \V ho al'e ont of eruploy-111~--'11~, and think it \V(Inld be a good thing to give thenl co~ttrclct:-; to ~tnmp the paddock, if one of thun1 ~honld be injured 1 rt.m liable to pay corrq.Jensatiou. 'rhe dft•,d \vill be that nothing but \,·hat is ab,,olntely necessary will btj done. T11en, if u1y gToon1 ::-;honld be ki~ked Ly one of my horseR, I am liable in that C<tcie also. I believe it also applie:-'1 t.n domestie SfrYo,nts, and it even g-nes so far that, if a worn:1n engaged for a. da_y's wa:-;hing Rhunld sc·tld herself, and i~ laid up, yon nre linblA to pay her C(lll1!18nsatiOJL I au1 afraid t.haJ, if the law i:-; nw.de to11 striugent it will have an i11jnrions dfect upon worker)4, ns it will rnake lJCop!e t:xtrem"~ly ch::tr;v of employing lahrmr. If it i.':i rueant to apply t:) donlPSt.ic servants it will lY~ alnJ(JRt n11bea.rable. The Bill ought to specify, as the E•1gli>h .Act does, \Ybat particulao~· class of operations con1e within the scope of the lllU.l.."'Un~, and noL lr<tve it an open C]llPSti<>n. It \\ill ue advisable to make that clear in currun~ttee.

Hox. \V. V. BROW::'-r : The principle of the Bill is one that we cctn support, but it <1ppenrs to rne that Rt>VPral amendments an~ requirHl in order to make it mutn:::dlv satisfactory. r:I:'here are also one or two thinis that l do .nnt quite understand. I preRUHJe the Bill is intendPd to give <1n ernploype any compen~ation to which he i~ Pnt.it.1ecl. That being sn, l would like to know \vhether the Government cnnt.eruplatP repea.ling the Employers' Liabilit.y .Act and certain sec­tions of the ~lining A.ct; Of' js an employ Re to be at lihert\· to assail his employer under three or four ditfereut .Acts? I understand that an enrplnyC'e cttn m~1 kP a clailn under the .En1plo.ver~' Liauilily Act. If he is a, miner, be may clnim under certain sec~iPDS of the l\lining A.ct; :tnd he rnav also rnake a clain1 n,t corn m on Jaw, in a.rlrli­tio~ to tlF chtim he r11ay mttke under this Bill. That is a state of atf;drs that we should rather set our faces against. If \Ye are goh1g to give an ernploy~-'e arnple means of obta.ining rt)dre..,s under this Bill, wt: sl:on]d. cer! ainly take step~ to repeal the prnvi:-;ions in the other A .. et:.:; to which I lu1ve ,.]]uded. [Hon. R H. SmTH: He can bkP- a.rhHntagP of nthPl' A.ctR, under clanse G.] [Hon. T. O'St'LLIVA.r-..T: l-IP can only n.:>CPvo· corn­penstLti(lll ullder one Act. J I should hope so. But I undero~tHnd that, if he fails under one . .:\ ... et, hP ca.n }'rnt:eed under another ; and he \vill pro­ceed under whicheVPr .Act he thinks will give him the grnate~t arl vantage. ] do 11ot think that is right. Then, i.-; the etuplnyer to he liable to defend three or four cases? [Hon. '1'. O'Sn,LI­\'A'\: Look "t clan-e 7] If the worker is to g:et cornpenRa.tinn nndrr t.hiR ~-\et-and \\'8 a.re gjv]ng hitn every p(JS.,ible dght he can expPct under it­then the other Acts should her' pealed. That is rny strongest objection to ~he Bill. I arn going to 'ot,e for the second readmg, but I sh dl support or n1ove some an1endments in committee.

HoN. T. O'SULLIVAN : I feel satisfied, to a certain extent, with the criticism which has fallen from hon. gentlemen on the other side. I under-

Hon. T. O'Sullivan.]

17 42 Wo1·km·s' Compensation Bill, L COUNCIL. J 1Yorkei'S' Compensation Bill.

stand that the principle which is embodied in thi,; legi,htion is ltCCepted l1y them, although they fure,-;hadow certain a1ueudment,;: in com­mittee. IL is only rea8onnble tlley should fore· shadow amendrnentf'., bc·c:"tn~e it gives lH tiJ,It' to consider them hefnre we t.ake the c llluuitb:m sta~e. A great deal of the criticisn1 against the l118llSUl'P, SO far, ha~ b81_'H lJa~ed OH mi~:--tpprehen­sion. The 1-fnn. I)r. T<'lylor, fur inst8.:nce, e:-.> pressed e~msider;tble anxi~ty a,bont dmne."tic :-:e1·vant~ and the washerwm11a11. \VdJ, I can assnre thP boll. gentlt·l.nan that his :.-llJXiPty un acetmut of that estitnable J'er"on is entirely.tnis­placed. ~n1e WaHhenvorua.n does not come under the Bill at all, ctnd neither do do m stic sen ants. Clause 3, in which the per,on' atfect~d ar~ set forth in the cle~rest }JOHsible language, rnakes the m:<tter so plain that I arn snrprised at the n1isapprehensi()n which has arisen in the 1ninds pf ~mne hon. gentlemen. The distinction beL,veen hazardous occupations and other~') is clearly shown in Rubsection 1 of elaus.e 3-

AlJY in(lnstrial, <'OlHtnerciHl, manufacturing-, or lmild­ing ·work. catrie(l ou by or on Ucllalf of the e!nployer as part of his trade or bn8incss.

Tlwsc only cmne under the Act 'vho are doing work c:<nied on by the employer '" part of his

trade or business. Tl1en we come to [8.30 p.n1.] "1niuing, qnarrying, engineering, or

hazardous w·nrk." \V hen :.vijcctiYeR of that kind a.ro u:-;ed, uucl thP. f.rerwral tPrm "haz·udon:-; '' f(lllowl", bon. membPr"' of the let..;al profe~s.ion v,:ill bear roe ont 'Nhen I ~ ny that it is a rule of eon,struction that the general word alwayK applies to things of the same Jpscrip. tion a~ tbP p:n·ticular wurd~ which precPdt->d it. In the translation of the. legal

the genPraJ ',vord to 1 --ante as the particular. '\Ve have benn t:old

over and ovPr legi.~httion bnR hecn paf<:;.:ed by 1--fon~e of Cnrn-mons, 1.vhere therG is no Lahqur p:uty-al­thongh it has hf-'en B.'1id here that sou1e of the pruvision::3 uf this Bill have bern introduced at the suggestion of the Labour part\'. There is no que.~ti()n (lf Labour p~Ltty :.tllont those provi~ion~ :1t all. !1ave been pn~'k -~d. fnr the simp1e rea...,on th;1t expt>.riPnce baR f',hown that itr \Vas nece::,~mry to exte11cl the rueasnre a bit furt!Jer, so as to rnake it really effectin~ fl)r the pnrpo . ...;~s for wh irh it '\Y<tS p.1S'·C'd. The Bill ha~ bet-'n Ro

fully di>c>v;,<ed that I do not prop"se to go into it at any length, bnt I ,honld like to deai with a few ()f the excPptions t-.ha.t have l._wen taken to it by leg-al members ,f the ChamlJer. J<'in.t of all, tbere i~ th8 Hon. l\Ir .. P,1wer' . ..., objection that if we pas...; this Bill we m1g·ht to reJJeal the cl:. u~es in the :\Iiniug Act which ellalJle an injured worker to reco\·er dmn:,ges frnn1 hif' en1plnyPr. To nr:der8tand the exact. position which lerl np to th8 pa~~ing of thO"·E' clause~, I nmst refer briefly to the hL·.tory of the law on the subject. There \Vas \Vha.t \Vas cnJled the common law liability, \vhich exi-;ts altogether independeutly of any st -..tute. lTnder that a workruan injured through defective lllachlnery or the negligence of his employer could sue the employer and re­cover da1Hager". Bnt that remedy was fon11d to be altogethec inadequate, bec>tuse the doctrine of contributory negligence apJllied, and in nearly evPry ca"e it could be 'hown that the accident occurred through the contribn•.ory neg1igt-nce of the n1a.n injured, and no n12~tter how negligf-mt the employer waP-, if the 8Hlp1oyee was neg-ligent to the slightf£st ~xtent he lost all clairn. A ~tronger objection to the law as it then ,tood was what -iR called thR doctrine of comu1on erup]oymeut. If a man suffered through the negligence of bis fellow-servant~, he C()uld not at cornrnon law re­cover darnagt>s frorn the ernpltlyer. That dnctrille wa~ fir~t laid down in a case which occurred in 1.~37. That seemed an unreasonable state of the

[Hon. T. O'Sullivan.

law, and it led to a great deal of hardship. The prin01ple applied tu a 1X1ine mana,ger if !18 hap~ pened to be a fellow-serv:mt. If tbe mine 1nanager happened to be the owner, the persun inj ureJ could recover; if not, he cunh1 nut. ThPn the l1~mployer:-;' Liabilit~v .. -'let \\'<tS pa~sed in Eugla11d in lHXO, and in <rlueenslancl iu 1R8H. That Act. was very defective also. The primary object of that Act was to do away with the pernici,JU8 dnctrine of eommon einployinent, to which I haver,•ferred. Itdidso, hutith<tlllp(·red thP refonus which it introdueed with :...;o IllrtlJY re­Rtrktiorn:> that tht) Pmployees practlcaliy did not get any benefit from it, and it reta.ined the doctrine of contributory negligence. It was found that that was not r;atis.factory. Then we en me to the }\fining Act, under which the occup11tion of mining is rec~ngnised to be a hazardous occu­p<1tion. Certain regnlations were tJ::tssed which the mvner' had to conform to, for <tny breach of which, if a n1iner were injured thereby, he had a remedy against hiR mnployer. And the law of contributory negligence was altered in a verv- re <Sonable way. In~tP<l.d of depriving the mi;',er of all remedies by reason of contributory negligencE', the mnnunt of darnage attributable to that ca,use the udne­owner wa:-; entitled to dednct frnn1 the rrward. Thn~, if the amount of damage~ waK fixed at £200, and the accirlent happened partly tbmngh the miner's own fault and partly through the negligHnce of the en1ployer, the latter could take, ~ay, £100, or whatever an1ount the inry tt:::.sf'-,t"ed

in respect of c·mtribntory utgligence, from the cornpen~-,-ttion awarded. .As the result of an accident in a minP is usnallv the d•"ath of the person .iJ1jnred, \Vhd L-; th~ceby incar;ahl<:> of giviug- an explanation of how it happened, the lnv. Vt'ry n~ary(mably prtts the onus of proo1f ('il

the employer. Tht Inine(nvner is the person whn ha:=; cnntrol of the udne; he can get PXperts tu exarnine it; everything is in bis O'<Vll hanrl.s; and if ct.llY 11ccid~nt h Lpprn.s jt is a reason­able thing tlwt he shonld be called 11pon to disprove negligence rather than that the '"'idow, rvho ha;-; no knowledge of 1nilling, <lnd \Vho 111ight lwYe llf'en milP.') }tway at the time, s!lould have to prove m gligence. That is what the 1-IIHl. J\lr. 1\)\ver ohjt"cts to aud w:ll!ts to hnxe repeah·d. F(n· my part I shall opr:cse to the utmost of my abilit,;- any altemtion in the mining lav,:, bPeause t!Je right to CllHlpensat iou in that i~; hn• ed on nPglL{ence, and t fw principh~ of negligt"nce does n(1t apply to thi...; Bill at all. The principle of tbi' Bill i8 that if an accident h>'p· pen~ it is to bP lod;;:ed upon as an expen.;;;e to the indu,try. It has bnen said it is very hard on the employer, but .so it would be lf his premi:-:;es vvere bnrnt out. He can l2;U:.trd against both by inournnce. The Hon. :\[r. Gil>"m referred to what might be the harKh operation of the Ilill in the event of a farmer wiU1 only £200 wor1h of property in the world becmuiug li:tble to the extent of £-lOO. ~L,he hon. gentleman wnu1d uot clis]mte that hn oug-ht tu be liable if he wa,worth £10,000; and where wa8 the line to he drawn, In th<lt case, too, the only safe way was inr.urance. As to the provision against contrHcting- out, that was ab,olutelynece"ary if the Bill was going to be any pror.ection to the workn1en. \Vith regard to farmers, there is no r"~'un why they should be lPft ont. JTarrui~1g was he~orning- n1ore h~1zardous as it hec;-l.me 1nore scientific by tbe increaHP.d use of machinery. The Hon. 1\Ir. 1\[acpherson refern·d to the fact thRt in ~ection 7 of thP l~ng­bh Act nf 18D7 it. only applied to certain trades and busine~ses. But, a.s \\ .iR said at the time, that wa-; only a tentative 1nea~ure. The Act 'r1'1S found to be benPticial in its operation, and in HJOO it waR extendf'd to agriculture, and the DE'\V

measure, based on the report of the department>tl committee, to which the Hon. iYir. Power

Questions. [22 NovEMBER.]

referred, ib very much on the same li!1es as our own. It ls general in its application. It is alRo general in the)[ ew Ze~bnd Act, and in the Hill introduced into tbe .Pa.rlittnlent of NRw South \Vales in Septernh~r la~t. The gt~nerLtl trend in all cnnntrie~ has been to extend the opt->rations of the Act beyond the scO)Je of the Act of 1897. The Hon. ~fr. Brown wants to lirnit the remedy to this c\ct. I was rather inclin·:d to take that view at first, but there is no reason, hecau~e we give a worlnnan a remedy under this Act, which m:tkes it a burden on the bu:-~inF"i:-; and limits tht: mnount to be recovered-there is no reason wby a rnan who ha,s su:sta.ined damages to a. grPattw ex lent than allowed b) thi.s _-\._et, through the negligence uf his employer, should lose the remedy be has got ag»inst the employer under the \Vorkrnen's Liability ~\.et or the Mining- Act. Although that propo~ition at first seenlt. a rensurnthle one, seeing that the ba~i~ nndt~r which compensa­tion is given in this Hill is accident and not negligence, when it is thoroughly grasped I think hon. gentletllen will bee it does not f()liow as a corollary to this measure that we should take away from any workman the rig·ht he has under any t:'XiKting- hnv, and leave hirn one remedy under this Act onlv. I think I have replied to the critici~:Hn of tOe legal nlembers of this Clmmber, and wit.h the practical put of the 1nea.sure I Hhn,ll prefer to take the opinions of Inen who have had experience in 1ni11ing opera­tions and employers of labour.

Ho:-~. G. W. GRAY: I beg to move the adjournment of the debate.

The SJWIU£TAICY 1<'0R P1:713LIC IN­STRUCTiOX: I beg- to scty that the cotrcrrittee stagetJ of the Bill will not be ta.ken until TueK­d~ty nc~xt, and. l would urge legal nwmbers to have their atnendrrwnts printed, and other hon. gentlemen who \\:it;h to move arnendrr:ent~, to hand thetn to th8 P11rli~'Ln1entary Draftsm<-tn. I tru~t that when the Bill CdHlG'i into commit.tee all amendrnen~s will be printed. If w,~ are going to do auy good we must have the a.Inendrnents in print.

Question pnt and paseecl.

The re~n1nption of the debate was n1adf'l an Order of the Day for to-morrow.

The Council adjourned »t eight minutes to a o'clock.

Agricultural Selections. 17'1:3