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28 13 OCTOBER 2016 ∞ MARKETING WEEK

PageGroup, said: “The dream is

we can integrate and personalise

everything, and the conversations

go internally ‘we can try a bit and

see if it works’. We have spent the

time on phase one – putting in the

measurement infrastructure so

people can see ROI. Some of the

integration elements we wanted to

While timing is everything when targeting customers in the purchasing journey, getting the corporate culture right is the first thing brands should do

The issue of accurately targeting

customers in the right purchasing

frame of mind is a hot topic, as the

debate at the Pegasystems/Adqura

roundtable hosted by Econsultancy

and Marketing Week proved.

From the challenges of standing

out in an overloaded inbox for B2B

prospects to wading through a

data swamp to understand the

needs of a vast and diverse B2C

audience, it was clear that brands

still face many challenges.

The panel agreed that before

they could discuss appropriate

points in the funnel for targeting,

there was the issue of corporate

culture to get straight first. Alex

Bates, UK marketing director at

By Morag Cuddeford Jones

Jo AllenBusiness lead, next generation decisioningBritish Gas

Penny AllenHead of marketingThe Go-Ahead

Group

Alex BatesUK marketing directorPageGroup

Robin CollyerMarketing and decisioning specialistPegasystems

Anna FentenHead of marketingLevy RestaurantsCompass Group

Andrew HoganGlobal head of brand strategy Barclaycard

Jacqueline HogartyHead of brand and marketingAmec Foster

Wheeler

Sarah HunterHead of marketingMitie

Richard IngramGlobal head of brand development and innovationSABMiller

Annette KerlinDirector of marketing and customer experience, Adqura

Richard PalkHead of online consumer communicationsSony Europe

Nigel SaxonSenior digital engagement managerLV

Stuart WilsonGroup director of communication and marketing

Mears Group plc

GETTING THE TIMING RIGHT

THE PANEL

MARKETING WEEK ∞ 13 OCTOBER 2016 29

SPONSORED BY PEGASYSTEMS/ADQURA

do would have been great to start

on earlier because they could have

been done quicker but being able

to say that we have a robust

structure that can gather data and

then react to that has been the

important thing to get buy-in.”

Adqura director of marketing

and customer experience Annette

Kerlin added: “Starting with a big

vision means you come unstuck.

Start small to get the benefits

quickly, get support, then get the

funding to do the rest. We started

by working on the data we thought

we could use. We created a

playpen, put it all in the cloud, put

data in from different sources and

got off the ground quickly. We had

a next best action six months in

from the start of the programme,

which is fast.”

The temptation, of course, is to

squeeze every last drop out of the

resources you have if you are

going to prove the next big bet to

the company. The panel agreed

that a selective approach was

“There’s lots of data but there are huge gaps and strict rules about how you contact businesses. It’s challenging“ANDREW HOGAN, BARCLAYCARD

Richard Ingram, global head of

brand development and innovation

at SABMiller, said: “We should be

looking at what our sense of

purpose and utility is and using our

data to deliver against it. We have

masses of consumer data – we

want to know as much as we can

about everybody, but half of it

might be completely irrelevant.

“We want to know which brands

are going to connect with which

consumers [so we can] target

directly and [build better

relationships]. Turning it on its head

and managing our databases in

that way, we have proven we drive

greater engagement by being

targeted with that data.”

Those complaining about the

abundance of first-party data they

have from selling direct to

consumer could be seen to be

grumbling from a position of grace

compared to those who are reliant

on third parties to complete the

transactional element. “One of my

favourite subjects is: whose

customer is it? We sell through

7,500 storefronts. It’s a

psychological issue in the

company. The customer is really

the retailer, while the customer I

want to communicate with is the

end customer,” added Ingram.

Relevant offering

The simple fact is that brands once

removed from the customer have

to work harder to remain relevant.

Kerlin at Adqura said: “At

GoCompare, we had people

coming to the site but buying direct

with the insurer. We didn’t know

who had bought from where and

[with whom we] had a relationship.

So the offering has to be relevant.”

She admitted they have been

looking at ways to start talking to

customers, including developing

real-time modelling and following

the journey through the site so

customers can be sent something

relevant in real time. “Email

becomes a mechanism to have a

conversation. It’s always interesting

how the outbound marketing and

website can come together and do

something personal.”

Nigel Saxon, senior digital

engagement manager at LV, is also

a fan of email but believes it is vital

to find a balance. “As important is

understanding our touchpoints

and that maybe it’s not the time to

do something. [Insurance is] a

grudge purchase so it is difficult to

know when the customer would

like us to talk to them.”

The challenge of data for

brands is threefold. There is the

abundance of data that creates the

potential for paralysis by analysis

and the potential to lose sight of

strategic end goals. Second, the

access to customer data when

faced with going through an

intermediary. Finally, being able to

tie all the necessary data together.

Companies are hampered by their

internal lack of competency or

regulatory hoops that protect the

consumer and, as Barclaycard

global head of brand strategy and

communications Andrew Hogan

said, in the case of multiple data

sources: “You’re playing with one

hand behind your back.”

He continued: “It’s the same

problem as: who is the customer?

Yes, there’s lots of data but there

are huge gaps and strict rules

about how you contact businesses.

It is a real challenge to get to the

same level of relationship building.”

Sony Europe head of online

consumer communications,

Richard Palk added: “It’s one of the

things that happens in regulated

industries. How much are you

allowed to combine data. We look

more effective. Sarah Hunter, head

of marketing at Mitie, said: “Making

it simple is key. We did bits of

personalisation but you need so

much motivation behind it to keep

it going and keep the data

up-to-date. It went off-piste and

turned into a beast.”

Pegasystems marketing and

decisioning specialist Robin

Collyer explained: “It is about

outcomes. How do you engage

with someone? Going back to the

minimum viable approach then

growing the relationship on

naturally is where we’re seeing the

most success with projects.”

In many respects, organisations’

access to data can be a blessing

and a curse. With real-time

targeting, executives were finding

that decision-making can be

hindered as so many strategies

need to be proven through data

even before execution. The trend

towards basing everything on the

stories the data is telling is making

brands myopic.

30 13 OCTOBER 2016 ∞ MARKETING WEEK

SPONSORED BY PEGASYSTEMS/ADQURA

at what Google and Microsoft have

done in joining up customer facing

brands. We want to say that X is

the same person as Y but will the

EU let me do this?”

Operationally, brands face the

problem of getting everything

joined up. Despite the growing use

of cloud systems, legacy

technologies and departmental

silos left over from merger and

acquisition activity present logistical

and legal problems. Jacqueline

Hogarty, head of brand and

marketing at Amec Foster Wheeler,

said following the merger of Amec

and Foster Wheeler there were

many CRM systems. “While we’re

trying to get everyone onto

Microsoft Dynamics, we’re not sure

where to go from there. People

tend to have their own mailing lists

and spreadsheets. We need to look

at how we’re going to move

forward as a single brand.”

In B2B relationships, where it

could be assumed that relationships

are more personal and real time

because of the complexity of

conversations and smaller

customer bases, marketers are still

facing challenges. Hunter at Mitie

complained that B2B marketers are

having to jettison traditional

approaches owing to a lack of

efficacy: “Email is getting harder

because everyone is doing it.”

Perhaps email as a B2B medium

requires a rethink. Anna Fenten,

head of marketing at Levy

Restaurants, Compass Group, said

much depends on the target’s

existing engagement with the

brand. “This is where integrated

marketing comes into play. If you

know where the customer is in the

buying cycle and can send them

something they’re passionate

about, then they will open it.” But,

she added, this needs to be part of

a wider plan, supported by other

channels such as Twitter or apps.

Resonating emotionally is the

key whether it is selling widgets or

Wagner. The challenge is to get a

foot in the door. Stuart Wilson,

group director of communication

and marketing at Mears Group,

explained: “Most emails go into

spam. I have got brand loyalty to

certain things – an email about

Harley-Davidson will always get

opened. But it’s how you build that

loyalty. It turns into a chicken and

egg situation.”

Part of the real-time marketing

challenge and associated spam

problem is the sheer volume of

communication opportunities can

put off customers. Palk at Sony

Europe said: “We have got so

much insight that the skill is to

know when the next best action is

not to communicate. Leave

someone alone and quantify the

value of not engaging.”

The panel agreed it was about

understanding the needs of the

customer, not just in finding

opportunities to talk to them,

however targeted and contextual

that conversation might be. There

needs to be an understanding that

customers might make a high

value purchase and be engaged for

a while but after a while a light

touch is required.

If moderating contact

frequency is about maximising the

customer relationship, using data

responsibly is clearly table stakes.

Brands that pay lip service to good

data stewardship without following

through are as bad as those who

do not engage with it at all. “One

of the challenges I face is that if

the customer has unsubscribed

from something, they have said

clearly that they don’t want to hear

from me again,” Ingram at

SABMiller explained. “Can I say

confidently that I have fully wiped

their data? If something happens,

[a hack for example], can I prove to

the regulator that I’ve done what

I said I did?”

For some brands, the challenge

is getting enough data. Southern

Railways is facing an ongoing set

of customer relationship issues but

it is also suffering from a lack of

data to make the connections it

needs with customers. Penny

Allen, head of marketing at The

Go-Ahead Group, which owns

Southern Railways, said: “People

don’t want an emotional

relationship with their bus or train

company. We need to use data to

make sure that compensation for

delays is paid quicker. But 80% to

90% of [transactions are paid for]

by cash or card. We are in a

dangerous position that we could

“We have got so much insight that the skill is to know when the next best action is not to communicate“RICHARD PARK, SONY EUROPE

MARKETING WEEK ∞ 13 OCTOBER 2016 31

make assumptions about customer

relationships on a base that is not

big enough.” She adds that the

introduction of Wi-Fi on-board will

go some way to boosting this

necessary data input.

Palk believes that social channels

are a rich source of information and

customer contact data for both

inbound and outbound contextual

communications. Allen at The

Go-Ahead Group agreed but noted

this whole area is a learning curve:

“Our teams operate autonomously

and the skill set isn’t there. There

isn’t a head of social for our brands

because we are such an

operationally-led industry.”

For many of the panel, engaging

in real-time marketing means

going back to basics first. Jo Allen,

business lead, next generation

decisioning at British Gas said:

“British Gas is starting from the

perspective that to drive

engagement you need to begin by

not being irrelevant. When people

move house, we shouldn’t be trying

to sell to them unless it’s relevant

to the house they’re moving into.”

Kerlin at Adqura said: “The

relationship with the customer is

a mutual value exchange. I want

good service. We need to help

businesses work out where their

moments of truth are – where in

the journey is the moment that

is important to the customer.

That’s where the sparkle dust

can be added to bring the brand

personality out.”

Wilson at Mears Group illustrated

this with an example from Transport

for London. Most Londoners have

to use the TfL infrastructure but

when something goes wrong, it is

communicated quickly, often with

humour and a lightness of touch. It

is not just a function, it’s an

experience. Barclaycard’s Hogan

added: “[Its] approach has changed.

Some train drivers think they’re

comedians, but there’s a brand tone

of voice behind it that resonates.”

Following a discussion of the

challenges facing marketers in

striking the right tone, frequency

and medium of communication, it

could seem as though there is a

mountain to climb. Add in

resistance to change from other

parts of the organisation and the

task can seem overwhelming. Allen

at British Gas said the answer is a

phased approach. “Start slowly,

build it but think about the end

goal all the time. With Adqura we

took steps to control the process

and buy ourselves credit with the

rest of the organisation. In the first

phase we increased conversion

20% in the first five and a half

months. That got us the credit to

move forwards and now 18

months on we have a tool that can

help us realise the business vision.”

Kerlin added: “You can’t tame

the beast in one go. If you build

the vision in the first phase, you’ll

fall over. Build the shell, plug in

the first part and show everyone

[in the organisation] how

great it is.”

“We should be looking at what our sense of purpose and utility is and using data to deliver against it“RICHARD INGRAM, SABMILLER