ms swarandeep birdi v (1) specsavers optical group limited (2) mr kamaljit...

Ms Swarandeep Birdi v (1) Specsavers Optical Group Limited (2) Mr Kamaljit Singh (3) Dartford Visionplus Limited (4) Dartford

Specsavers Limited

Day 6

October 30, 2014

Opus 2 International - Official Court Reporters

Phone: +44 (20) 3008 5900Email: [email protected]: http://www.opus2.com

October 30, 2014 Day 6

Official Court Reporters +44 (20) 3008 5900Opus 2 International [email protected]

1

1 Thursday,30October20142 (10.30am)3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,MrStuart.

4 MRSTUART:MyLord,justahousekeeping/witnessmatter.

5 I'lljustpassuptoyourLordshipaclipof

6 correspondence.It'snotyetreadytogointhe

7 correspondencefilebecausethereissomemore

8 correspondencethathastogoinbeforethisoneandso

9 thepaginationisgoingtogetdone,butthisisjustso

10 yourLordshipunderstandswhat'shappeningtoday.

11 IthinkyourLordshipalreadyknowsabout

12 RuthWotton,whowasattheoutsetofthetrialplanned

13 tobeoneofthefivestaffmemberswhosignedthe

14 letter‐‐

15 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Shewasservedbutwasreluctanttocome.

16 MRSTUART:That'sright.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andyouweren'tgoingtoforceherto

18 come.

19 MRSTUART:That'sright.

20 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.

21 MRSTUART:Andtherespondentshaveaskedustoshowthem

22 thecorrespondencewithher,whichledtothat,whichwe

23 arehappytodo.Soyouwillseeimmediatelybehindthe

24 letterof29October,thefirsttwodocumentsare

25 aletterfromAkinPalmer,myinstructingsolicitors,to

2

1 MsRuthWottonof15October.


3 MRSTUART:DoesyourLordshipseethat?Thatwas,asit

4 were,justbeforethetrial,tellinghershewasgoing

5 toattend.

6 Thenyouwillseeanemail,17October.


8 MRSTUART:FromRWottonto‐‐justtobeclear,Kushinder

9 BirdiisasolicitorinAkinPalmer.


11 MRSTUART:AndyourLordshipseesthat‐‐

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Shehasgotprofessionalcommitments.

13 MRSTUART:Shehadprofessionalcommitments.Sheexplained

14 thatshehadpostponedtwice,lostthecompanymoney,

15 totallyunacceptable,etcetera,etcetera.Canwebe

16 accommodating.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyou.

18 MRSTUART:Sowedecidedtobeaccommodating.Sothatis

19 her‐‐

20 MRJUSTICENUGEE:ThenthereisMsHilton.

21 MRSTUART:MsHiltonwas,untilyesterday,duetobethe

22 fourthonthelistthismorning.Wereceivedrequests

23 fromMsHiltononMonday.CanItakeyourLordship

24 to‐‐aftertheletterof15OctobertoMsHilton,you

25 willseealetterfromAkinPalmer.

3


2 MRSTUART:27October.Shehadhadatelephonecall.She

3 hadn'tatthatstageemailedus.Shehadspokenonthe

4 telephoneanumberoftimesandshehadmentioned

5 childcarearrangementsbutthenwegot‐‐doesyour

6 Lordshiphaveit?AnemailfromClareHilton,

7 29October?Sothatwasyesterdayafternoon:

8 "...puttingintowritingmyrequesttobereleased

9 fromcourt.ThereasonIsubmitthisrequestisdueto

10 mydaughtergivingbirththisweekafteracomplicated

11 pregnancyanddelivery.Sheneedsmysupporttocare

12 forherself,thebabyandherotherthreechildren."


14 MRSTUART:Inthosecircumstances,myLord,wehavedecided

15 nottoholdMsHiltontohersummonsandwearenot

16 cross‐examininghereither.


18 MRSTUART:Ithinksheformallyneedstobereleased,as

19 youalreadyreleasedMsWotton,whenIaskedyouto,

20 fromthesummons.Weaskhertobeformallyreleased.

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:IwillformallyreleaseMsHilton.

22 MRSTUART:Thatreducesthenumberofsmallwitnesses,as

23 wehavecalledthem,tothreeandtheyarehere:

24 MsTidmass,MsHornbyandMrHummell.

25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Doyouwanttodealwiththemnext?

4

1 MRSTUART:Ifwecould,myLord,Idon'twanttomessthem

2 aroundanylongerthanneedbe.

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:No,no,agreed.

4 MRSTUART:I'mkeentogettheminandoutofbylunchtime.


6 MRSTUART:CouldwehaveMsTidmass.

7 MSHELENTIDMASS(affirmed)

8 Cross‐examinationbyMRSTUART

9 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Do,please,sitdown.IsitMsTidmass,

10 Mrs?

11 A.Mrs.


13 MRSTUART:MrsTidmass,Ithinkallyouaregoingtoneed

14 tobehandedarebundlesE11andE12.Thosearethe

15 onlytwoI'mgoingtoreferyouto.Youhavethem?

16 Excellent.

17 Let'sstartwithE11.Doyouhavethat?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Let'sstartwiththeletter.It'satpage3009,the

20 paginationisinthetopright‐handcorner.

21 {E/935.1/3009}Doyouhaveit?

22 A.Yes.

23 Q.Excellent.Justtobeclear,onthisversionofthe

24 letter,Idon'tthinkyouhadsignedthisversion.Is

25 thatright?HaveIgotthatright?



5

1 A.That'scorrect.

2 Q.Therearefoursignatoriesonthatletter,thatversion

3 oftheletter?

4 A.Hm‐mm.

5 Q.Youcametosignitlater,Ithink?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.Andthereisanotherversionoftheletterwithyour

8 signatureonit.Wewillcometothatinamoment.

9 Whowrotethisletter?

10 A.LucyHornbyandTraceyHilton.

11 Q.Andhowdoyouknowthat?

12 A.Becauseitwasmydayoffwhentheletterwaswritten.

13 Lucyphonedme.Wehaddiscussedthisbefore,about

14 agrievance,becausetheteamwasveryunhappyatwork,

15 andLucyphonedmeandsaid‐‐readthelettertome

16 overthephoneandsaidhowIfeltaboutit,and

17 Iagreedwitheverythingthatshewrotedown.

18 Q.Sosheactuallyreadouttoyoutheletterthathad

19 alreadybeendrafted?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Andaskedyou,"Doyouagreetosignthatwhenyounext

22 comein?"

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.Right.Somyquestionwas:whowroteit?Yousaid

25 LucyHornbyandTraceyHilton?

6

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.AndthenIsaidhowdoyouknowthat?

3 A.Becausewewasallaware‐‐allthestaffknewthat

4 TraceyandLucywrotetheletter.

5 Q.Howdoyouknowthat?Howwereyouaware?

6 A.BecauseIbelieveLucy,IhaveworkedwithLucyfor

7 many,manyyearsandshewouldn'tlieaboutsomething

8 likethat.

9 Q.Whenyousayshelied‐‐whodidshetell?

10 A.Shetoldmeonthephone.

11 Q.What,that,"I,Lucy,havewrittenthisletter"?

12 A.Myself‐‐shesaidtome,"MyselfandTraceyhave

13 writtenaletter".

14 Q.Okay.DidshementionKamSingh?

15 A.No.

16 Q.DidyouknowthatKamSinghknewabouttheletter?

17 A.Wediscussedaboutwritingaletterbeforethiswas

18 actuallywritten.

19 Q.Okay.

20 A.Butwedidn'tknowhowtogoaheadaboutagrievanceor

21 anything.

22 Q.Right.Soyouaskedwho?

23 A.WeaskedKam‐‐

24 Q.Right.

25 A.‐‐ifwecouldputinagrievance,howdowegoabout

7

1 it.Hiswordswere:

2 "YoucanputinagrievancebutIhavetohave

3 nothingatalltodowithit.Youhavetogothrough

4 headoffice."

5 Whichiswhatwedid.

6 Q.ThenbetweenthatconversationwithKamandthis

7 documentbeingdraftedbysomebody,didyoupersonally

8 haveanyinvolvementinthedraftingorwasitleftto

9 TraceyandLucy?

10 A.Theletterthatwasreadtome,Icouldhavehadinput

11 intoit.Ijustagreedwitheverythingthatwaswritten

12 downonthatletter.

13 Q.Justtobeclear,myquestionwas:intheperiodbetween

14 theconversationwithKamSingh,whichyousayyouwere

15 apartyto‐‐isthatright?HaveIgotthatright?

16 YouwereapartytoaconversationwithKamSingh?

17 A.Therewasabig‐‐allofusafterwork,alltheteam

18 afterworkhad‐‐wewenttothepub,whichweoften

19 did.

20 Q.Yes.

21 A.Darshanwasveryupset.

22 Q.Yes.

23 A.Andthat'swhywealldecidedthatweshouldactually

24 doingsomethingaboutit,becausewefeltthatourstore

25 wasn'tgoingintherightdirection.

8

1 Q.Sothismeetingafterworkinthepubwaswith,what,

2 thesixpeoplementionedhere?

3 A.Yes.

4 Q.Lucy,Tracey,Stephen,Darshan,yourselfandRuth?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.AndKamSingh?

7 A.Hewasn'tthereforlong.Hedidn'tstayforlong.

8 Q.Buthewasthere?

9 A.Hewastherewithus.

10 Q.Andthat'sthediscussion,yousay,whereyouraisedthe

11 issueabout,"Howdowemakeagrievance?"andhesaid

12 hehadtohavenothingtodowithit?

13 A.Hesaidhehadtohavenothingatalltodowithit.

14 Q.Sothatpubconversation,roughlywhendidthattake

15 place?Lookingatthisletter,it'sdated16June?

16 A.Iwouldsaymaybe‐‐Imean,it'shardtosayfor

17 definitebecauseit'salongtimeagobutIwouldsay

18 maybewithinaweek,maybenotthatlong,maybedays,

19 maybeaweek.

20 Q.Okay.

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Doyouknowwhichdayoftheweekitwas?

22 A.Iwouldsay‐‐itwasmydayoff.

23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Whichwasyourdayoffin2010?

24 A.Ibelieveback‐‐yousee,Ican'trememberthedates

25 becauseIwentonmaternityleave.Iwentbackto



9

1 SpecsaversandIcutmydaysdowntoonedayaweek,

2 whichwasaMonday.Oncemysonwenttoschool,Iupped

3 myhoursagaintofourdaysaweek.Soitcouldn'thave

4 beenaMonday,butIdon'tknowwhatdayitwouldhave

5 been.Ican'tsaythat.


7 MRSTUART:Butanyway,itwaswithintheweekpriorto

8 16June?

9 A.Yes,Iwouldhavesaidthat,yes.

10 Q.Sothat'ssometimefrom9Juneto16June,butyou

11 can'tbemoreprecise?

12 A.No,Ican't,I'msorry.

13 Q.Therewasobviouslysomecontexttothesixofyou

14 writingthisletter;yes?

15 A.Sorry?

16 Q.Itdidn'tcomeoutofthebluethatyouwrotethis

17 letter?

18 A.No,itwasdiscussed.LikeIsaid,wewasallunhappy

19 atwork,sowediscussedthatsomethingshouldchange.

20 Q.Yousayyouwereallunhappy.Youdidn'tspeakto

21 Swarandeepaboutthisatthatstage,didyou?

22 A.No.

23 Q.No.ItwasyousixandKamwhowerediscussingit?

24 A.Erm‐‐

25 Q.WhichmightbefairbecauseKamwasyourboss?

10

1 A.Well,yes.2 Q.Right.Allright.Iwantedtojustsaytherewassome3 contextbecause‐‐canwejustlookatthecontentof4 theletterjusttoseewhatitwasabout.Doyousee5 that?6 A.Yes.7 Q."WeareallemployeesofSpecsaversDartfordandhave8 beenverydistressedbyrecenteventsin‐store.9 AsateamwehavebeenaffectedbyKamnotbeing

10 in‐store..."{E/935.1/3009}11 Soobviously,whathadhappenedwasthathehadbeen12 suspended?13 A.Ithoughthe'd‐‐Ithoughtthatwasonhisownaccount,14 thathe‐‐15 Q.Okay,youdidn'tknowhehadbeensuspended?16 A.Ididn'tknowhehadbeensuspended,no.Ithoughthe17 didthathimself,totakehimselfoutoftheequation18 forthetimebeing.19 Q.Butyouknewfrom8June,actually,itwas,hewasno20 longerinthestore?21 A.Icouldn'thavetoldyouthatdate.Iwouldn'thave22 knownthedate.23 Q.I'lltakeyoutothedateinaminute.24 A.Okay.25 Q.Butwhatyouarereferringtoisthefactthathehad,

11

1 youthoughtvoluntarily‐‐

2 A.Yes,Idid.

3 Q.I'llshowthatyouitwasn'tvoluntaryinamoment,but

4 you,thestaff,wereawarethatfromacertaindatehe

5 wasnolongerinthestore?

6 A.Hm‐mm.

7 Q.Andyousay:

8 "AsateamwehavebeenaffectedbyKamnotbeingin

9 storetosupportus..."

10 Doyouseethat?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q."Wedon'twanttoloseKamasourdirector..."

13 SoyouobviouslythoughtthatKam'spositionwasat

14 risk?

15 A.Wedidn'treallyknowwhatwasgoingonatthetimebut

16 whenKamwent,wewantedhimasourdirector.

17 Q.That'snotwhatyousay.Yousay:

18 "Wedon'twanttoloseKamasourdirector..."

19 A.Becausewewasn'tawareifhewasgoingtocomeback.

20 Wewasn'treallytoldwhatthesituationwas.

21 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatyouwereawarefrom

22 yourpubmeetingwithKamthatweekthathefacedsome

23 seriousallegations‐‐

24 A.Kamneverdiscussedthatwithus.

25 Q.‐‐fromacoupleoffemalemembersofstaff?

12

1 A.ButKamneverdiscussedthat.2 Q.Andthatyousixwereconcernedthatyouweregoingto3 loseKamasyourdirector,asyouputitthere:4 "Wedon'twanttoloseKamasourdirector..."5 I'msuggestingtoyouthatyousaidthatbecauseyou6 didactuallythinktherewasariskthatyouwoulddo?7 A.No,Idon'tagree.8 Q.Okay.Thenextparagraphis:9 "WehavefeltostracisedbySwarandeep..."

10 Iknowyoudidn'twritethisletter,youpersonally.11 Ostracised?12 A.Well,followingonfromthat,regardingtheJasand13 Fatima,thenyes.14 Q.No,wehaven'tevengotontoJasandFatimayet,have15 we:16 "WehavefeltostracisedbySwarandeep..."17 A.Then,yes.18 Q.Whatdoes"ostracised"mean?19 A.Thatwefeltthatwewasn't‐‐ourgroup,ourteamfelt20 divided.21 Q.Divided,okay.Sotheteamwasyousixaspartofthe22 teamandtheothertwo,JasandFatima,astheother23 part?24 A.No,becausetherewasothermembersofstafftherethat25 didn'tsignthisletter.Soourteamconsistedofmore



13

1 thanjustoursix.

2 Q.Okay,butby"ostracised",youmeantthattheteamwas

3 split?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.Betweenyousix,whoare‐‐I'llputitplainlythatyou

6 wereagainstJasandFatima?

7 A.Yes.

8 Q.ThentherewasJasandFatimawhowereobviously

9 together?

10 A.Hm‐mm.

11 Q.Andthenthereweresomeothermembersofstaffwhowere

12 neitherinonesetnortheother?

13 A.No,Istillbelievethattheywas‐‐moreinwithus.

14 Q.Okay.

15 A.Lorraine,Gladstone,buttheyjustdidn'tsignthis

16 letter.Theydidn'twanttogetinvolved.

17 Q.Anyway:

18 "WehavefeltostracisedbySwarandeepsinceJasand

19 Fatimabeganworkingwithus."

20 Youpersonally,howmanydayshadyouworkedinthe

21 storewithJas,FatimaandSwarandeepsinceyou

22 returned?Howmanyactualdays,youpersonally?

23 A.Idon'tknowbecausethisisalongtimeago.

24 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatitwasnomorethantwo

25 orthreeoccasions?

14

1 A.IbelieveIworkedwiththemmorethantwoorthree2 occasions.3 Q.Okay."Ostracised"means"divided";isthatright,in4 yourunderstanding?5 A.That'showIfeelinthissituation.6 Q.Okay.Itgoeson:7 "Wehavefeltshehasgiventhempreferential8 treatment."9 Thatis,JasandFatima.

10 A.Okay.11 Q.That'swhatyouaresigningupto?12 A.Yes.13 Q.ThatyoufeelSwarandeepwasgivingthempreferential14 treatment?15 A.Fatimawaslateforworkquitealot.Ifwewasever16 lateforwork,wewouldhavetomakethetimeup.We17 wouldhaveittakenoffourbreaks,ourlunches.18 IneverwitnessedthatwithFatima.19 Q."...whisperingconversationsandhuddlesbetweenthe20 threeofthem."21 Didyoupersonallyseethose?22 A.Yes,Ididonce.Iwentuponmybreak‐‐Iwentonto23 theroof,justlikethefireexit.Swarandeepwason24 herphone,JasandFatimawereontheroofaswellbut25 theywasrightatthebackoftheroof.Istoodbythe

15

1 doorbecauseI'masmoker.Idon'tknowwhatwas‐‐2 withthatconversation.Iwouldn'thavelistenedbut3 theywasrightatthebackoftheroof.4 Q."Wehavebeendistressedbythegrievancestheyhave5 broughtintheirshorttimeinthestore..."6 Oneofthemwasonaprobationaryperiod,wasn't7 she?8 A.Yes.9 Q.Sothesegrievancesthatyoureferto,youwere

10 obviouslyawareofthegrievancesthattheybrought?11 A.Idon'tknowaboutFatima,agrievance.Iknowabout12 theJasone,after‐‐becauseIknewshewasgoingfor13 ameetingwithheadofficebutshecameintoworkthat14 morningandaskedtoseeLorraine,whousedtoworkin15 ourcallcentreatthetime.AndIsaid,"Well,sheis16 upinthecallcentre."SoshewentuptoseeLorraine17 andIbuzzeduptoLorraineandIsaid,"WhatdidJas18 want?"andshesaidtome,"SheaskedmeifIwouldput19 inagrievanceagainstKam".20 Lorrainesaid,"No,Iwon't,Idon'thaveto,Ihave21 noreasonto".22 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Lorrainewho?23 MRSTUART:Larraine,isn'tit?24 A.It'sLarraine,yes,sorry‐‐25 MRSTUART:NotLorraineFrondigoun?

16

1 A.NotLorraineFrondigoun,no.2 Q.It'sLarraine.3 A.Yes.4 Q.Butthat'snotwhatthisletterisreferringtothatyou5 signedupto,MrsTidmass,isit:6 "Wehavebeendistressedbythegrievancestheyhave7 brought..."8 Thesentencegoeson,sowecanseewhatgrievances9 youaretalkingabout.It'snotsomerequesttoget

10 somebodyelsetoputagrievancein.It's:11 "...thegrievancestheyhavebrought...andwe12 feelSwarandeephastakenabigpartinthembeing13 broughttoheadoffice'sattentionunnecessarily."14 Sowhatgrievancesareyousigningthisletterto15 referto,MrsTidmass?Whatformalheadoffice16 grievances?17 A.Well,IbelievethisisthegrievanceregardingKam.18 Q.WhichgrievanceregardingKam?Ithoughtyoudidn't19 knowaboutthedetailsofthegrievanceregardingKam?20 A.Wedidknowafterwards.21 Q.When?22 A.Becausewhen‐‐likeIsaid,wefeltourteamwas23 dividedanditwasdivided.24 Q.I'mnotaskingyouaboutthefirstsentence.Tryand25 answermyquestion,MrsTidmass.I'maskingyouabout



17

1 thissentence.Wewillgetalongalotquickerifyou

2 answerthequestion.

3 Whatgrievances,andwhendidyoulearnthedetails

4 ofthegrievanceagainstKam?

5 A.Idon'tknow‐‐Idon'tknowhowtoansweryour

6 question.Ijust‐‐byreadingthis:

7 "...distressedbythegrievancesthathavebrought

8 intheshorttimeinthestore..."

9 Thatourteamwasjustfallingapart.

10 MRJUSTICENUGEE:PerhapsMrsTidmass,atthetimeyou

11 signedtheletter,whatdidyouknowaboutthe

12 grievanceswhichareherereferredtothatJasand

13 Fatimahadbrought?

14 A.Idon'tknowabouttheFatima,IknowabouttheJas,

15 whichwastodowith‐‐

16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Whatdidyouknow,atthetimethatyou

17 signedletter,aboutthegrievancethatJashadbrought?

18 A.Somekindof‐‐Idon'tknowwhatthewordis‐‐

19 MRSTUART:Harassment?

20 A.Maybe.

21 Q.Sexualharassment?

22 A.Right,okay,sexualharassmentthen,whichIwas

23 actuallyveryshockedabout.

24 Q.Whotoldyouaboutthedetailsofthesexualharassment

25 grievanceagainstKambefore6June?

18

1 A.Idon'tknow.

2 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatitwasMrKamSingh

3 himselfinthepub?

4 A.No,never.Never.

5 Q.Allright,thenitwasKamSinghbeforethepub?

6 A.No.Kamhasnevermentionedtomeaboutthis.Theshop

7 floorknewaboutthis.

8 Q.WasitLucyHornbyandTraceyHilton,thepeoplewho

9 KamSinghgottowritethisletter?

10 A.No,no.

11 Q.Itwasn'tthem?

12 A.No,itwasn'tthem.

13 Q.Okay.

14 A.Ican'ttellyou‐‐Icannotpickoutapersonbut

15 everyonewastalkingaboutitontheshopfloor.

16 Ican'tpickoutapersonwho‐‐Idon'tthinkanybody

17 actuallycomeuptomeandsaid,"Doyouknowwhat's

18 happened?"

19 Q.Let'sgobackalittlebitinthebundleandseewhat

20 youknew.Wewilldoitinreverseorder,Ithinkit's

21 probablytheeasiest.2951‐‐actually,no,let'sdoit

22 theotherwayround,sorry.2945.{E/912/2945}

23 Thatwason1June.MsBirdiwaswritingtoKam

24 complainingabouthisconduct,nothingtodowiththe

25 JasandFatimamatterbuttodowithKevinthelabtech

19

1 whohadmadeacomplaint,broughtagrievance,against

2 him.Didyouknowaboutthat?

3 A.Idon'tknowwhatthegrievancewas.

4 Q.DidyouknowKevinhadcomplainedaboutKam?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.AndweseeKevin'sgrievanceat2943,sogobacktwo

7 pages.{E/911/2943}Friday28May.Kevinthelab

8 techniciansigneditatthebottomon2944{E/911/2944}

9 andthesumtotalofit‐‐ifyougoto2944justabove

10 thesecondholepunch,doyouseethereareacoupleof

11 paragraphsstarting:

12 "Kevinreportsthathehasbeenveryupset..."

13 Doyouseethat?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Andthen:

16 "Kevinsaidhepreferstostayinoneplaceofwork

17 buthefeelsthatheisbeingpushedoutbyKamandhe

18 isthereforelookingforanewposition..."

19 Doyouseethat?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.WereyouawarethatthegeneraltenorofKevin's

22 complaintwasthatKamwastryingtopushhimout?The

23 generalnatureofhiscomplaint?

24 A.Sorry?

25 Q.Fromyourdiscussionsontheshopfloor,whereyouall

20

1 talkaboutthesethings,wereyouawarethatingeneral,

2 Kevin'scomplaintagainstKamwasthatKamwastryingto

3 pushhimout?

4 A.Ididn'treallyhavealottodowithKevin.Ididn't

5 workwithKevinforthatlong.Kevinnevercamedownon

6 theshopfloor.Hewasalwaysinthelab,obviously.

7 Q.Okay,soistheanswertomyquestion,youweren'taware

8 ofKevin'scomplaintoryouweren'tawareofthedetail

9 ofKevin'scomplaint?

10 A.Iwasn'tawareofthedetailsofhiscomplaintatall.

11 Q.Okay,butyouwereawarethathewascomplainingabout

12 Kam?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.Fine.That'sonegrievance.Theothergrievanceisthe

15 Jas/Fatimaone.Canwestartat2864.{E/892.1/2864}

16 Doyouhavethat?

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.29April2010.Doyouseethat?

19 A.Yes.

20 Q.Itstarts:

21 "AnurgentmeetingwasrequestedwithSwarandeep

22 Birdibyamembertheteamatshortnotice...

23 JasKhunkhuna."

24 Yes?

25 A.Yes.



21

1 Q."...wasveryupsetandmadeacomplaintagainst

2 KamSingh.Shewasaccompaniedbyaworkingcolleague,

3 FatimaKhanforsupport."

4 Doyouseethat?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.Isthisthegrievancethatyouthinkyouwerereferring

7 toinyourletter,whatyoudescribeas"theJas

8 grievance"?

9 A.Well,Ididn'tknowanythingaboutthisletter,so

10 Idon'tknow.

11 Q.Iknowyoudidn'tknowaboutthismeeting‐‐thisis

12 ameetingnote.I'msaying,isthisthegrievance,is

13 thistheJasgrievancethatyouwerereferringto?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Yes.Wesee:

16 "SheraisedaseriousissueinregardstoKS's

17 [that'sKamSingh's]unwantedattentionandbehaviour

18 towardsherwhichiscausinghertobeverydistressed

19 andunhappy.

20 "ThecomplaintwasthatKSisverytouchyfeelywith

21 herinamannerhehasneverdisplayedwithanyother

22 staffmember.Shereportsthatheisalwaysleeringand

23 staringatheranditismakingherfeelharassedand

24 veryuncomfortable.Shehasraidedanissuewithhimon

25 anumberofoccasionsbuttherehasbeennochangein

22

1 hisbehaviour.Ononeoccasionsheinformed

2 [SwarandeepBirdi]thatshehadclearlytoldhimhis

3 behaviourwasinappropriateandhiscommentto[Jas]was

4 'somepeoplehaveanattractiontheircolleagues'.

5 "Shereportedalsothathewilldeliberatelystand

6 infrontofthetillwhensheneedstouseitandwill

7 notmovedespiteherrepeatedrequests."

8 Itgoeson:

9 "Shethenhastophysicallytouchhimtoeventually

10 gethimtomoveoutofthewaysoshecancontinuetodo

11 herjob.

12 "Hehassummonedherintohisofficeonanumberof

13 occasionswithnobusinessreasontodoso.Ononeday

14 hecalledherintohisofficeatleastthreetimesin

15 ashortperiodoftimewhichdelayedherfromcompleting

16 hertasks."

17 Doyouseeallofthat?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Itgoesonandonandatthebottomshereferstothe

20 fact‐‐doyouseethebottomofthepage:

21 "Therecenttopic[KamSingh]broughtupin

22 conversationatlunchwasregardingherrelationship

23 withherpartneranditbeingthathewastryingto

24 convinceherthatsheshouldnotgetmarriedtoher

25 partneroffouryears."

23

1 Doyouseethat?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Andthenoverthepage:4 "Hehasbehavedina'stroppy'manner...5 "Shefeelsthatshehasher'ownpersonalstalker'6 bythechildishandinappropriatewayheisbehaving."7 Doyouseethat?8 A.Hm‐mm.9 Q."...alocumhasevenaskedifsheisokayafterKShas

10 beenhoveringoverher.11 "Shefeelsveryuncomfortablealsoashehasaccess12 toallherpersonaldetailsasheistheboss."13 Doyouseethat?14 A.Yes.15 Q.Andthenthepenultimatesentence:16 "BothJK..."17 That'sJas:18 "...and[Fatima]arefearfulthattheymaylose19 theirjobsorthat[KamSingh]maymaketheirlives20 difficultoncethisgetsoutsbuthadnochoicebutto21 reportthisto[SwarandeepBirdi]."22 Doyouseethat?23 A.Hm‐mm.24 Q.Youhaveconfirmedthosearetheallegationsagainst25 MrSinghthatJasand,attheendthere,Fatimawere

24

1 making.Yes?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Thereaction:canyougoto2926.{E/904.1/2926}4 Ishouldhaveaskedyou:wereyouawareattheend5 ofApril2010thattheyweremakingaformalgrievance,6 thatJaswas,supportedbyFatima.Wereyouaware?7 A.No,Idon'tthinkIwas.8 Q.Okay.2926.Doyouhaveit?9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Thisis23May,sotheformalgrievancehasbeensenton11 toheadoffice.12 A.Hm‐mm.13 Q.Obviously.AndAlisonGirolletisattheheadoffice.14 DoyouknowofAlisonGirollet?15 A.No.16 Q.No,allright.Anyway,thisisaletterfromMrSingh,17 23May:18 "Asyouareawaretwomembersofstaff,19 JasKhunkhunaandFatimaKhanhaveconfirmedtheir20 intentiontomakeformalcomplaintsagainstme."21 Doyouseethat?22 A.Yes.23 Q.Hesaysit'sfabricatedallegationsonaprofessional24 andpersonallevel.Hereports‐‐doyousee,just25 abovethesecondholepunch:



25

1 "Yesterdayyouinformedme..."2 That'sAlisonGirolletofSOGheadofficethat3 informedhim,MrSingh:4 "...that[Fatima]intendstomakeaformal5 complaint."6 Doyouseethat?7 A.Yes.8 Q."Asaresultofthis,Iamveryanxiousaboutworkingin9 theseconditions.Ifeellikea'sittingduck'."

10 Thenherecommendedthattheyare,inhiswords,11 "giventimeoff".WereyouawarethatKamwantedto12 givethetwoofthemtimeoff?13 A.No.14 Q.No.Wereyouawareby23Mayoftheirgrievances?15 A.Idon'tbelieveso.16 Q.No.Okay.Ican'taskyouaboutthem,then.17 TheFatimagrievanceisthenextpage,2927.18 {E/905/2927}Andit'smorethanagrievance;she19 resigns,doesn'tshe?Doyouremember,27May,Fatima20 writestoSwarandeepBirdi,thedirectorthestore:21 "Iherebyamgivingnoticeofresignation.Thisis22 duetomefeelingveryuncomfortableworkingwith23 KamSinghandRuthWotton."24 Doyouseethat?25 A.Yes.

26

1 Q.WereyouawareattheendofMaythatFatimawas

2 resigningbecauseoffeelinguncomfortablefrom

3 KamSinghandRuth?Wereyouawareofthat?

4 A.No.

5 Q.No?Okay.Ifyouskiponto2939.It'sprobablybest,

6 justtogetthecontext‐‐yes,2939.{E/910.1/2939}

7 ThisisawrittengrievancebyFatima.Sheiscalled

8 GulamalibutsheisalsocalledKhan?

9 A.IonlyknowKhan.

10 Q.SomepeopleknowherasFatimaKhan?

11 A.Yes,itwasonlyKhanIknewheras.

12 Q.Okay,butheractualnameisFatimaGulamali?

13 A.Okay.

14 Q.ThisisfromFatima.Doyouseethat?

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.ToRiyazRajan.DoyouknowRiyazRajan?

17 A.IthinkIhavemethimoncewhenhecomeintothestore.

18 Q.HeisfromSOG,isn'the?

19 A.Yes.

20 Q.Shesetsouthereagrievance.Doyouseethat?

21 A.Yes.

22 Q.Wewon'tgothroughallofitbecausewedon'tneedto,

23 butabouthalfwaydownbetweenthetwoholepunches.

24 "He[KamSingh]alsostartedtogivemeandJas

25 DirtyLooks."

27

1 Doyouseethat?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Andthenvariousallegationsaremadeby4 MsGulamali/Khan.Soshehasraisedaformalgrievance5 nowagainstMrSinghaswell;doyouseethat?6 A.Hm‐mm.7 Q.Wereyouawareofherformalgrievance‐‐8 A.No.9 Q.‐‐againstMrSingh?

10 A.No.11 Q.No?Gobacktopage2936,whichiswronglydated200912 andshouldread2010.{E/910.1/2936}13 Sotwodayslater,SpecsaverswrotetoMrSinghto14 saythatthegrievancesofMsJasKhunkhunaand15 MsFatimaGulamaliwerebeinginvestigated.Doyousee16 that?17 A.Hm‐mm.18 Q.WereyouawarethatSpecsavers‐‐notMsBirdi,19 Specsavers‐‐wereinvestigatingthegrievancesagainst20 KamSingh?21 A.No.22 Q.No.IhavealreadytakenyoutotheKevingrievanceand23 topage2945.{E/912/2945}24 By1June,MsBirdiwasraisingwithKamSinghthe25 issueaboutKevinandhisthreattoleave.Wereyou

28

1 awarethatMsBirdiwasconcernedatthelossofstaff

2 atthisstagethatseemedtobebeingcausedby

3 KamSingh?Wereyouawareofthat?

4 A.No.

5 Q.No?AndthenthereactionfromMrSinghisat

6 page2951,{E/915.1/2951}2June2010.Doyouseethat?

7 A.Yes.

8 Q."DearPartners..."

9 ThisistotheboardofdirectorsofSpecsavers:

10 "IwasshockedtolearnthatMsBirdiwouldliketo

11 re‐employFatimaKhan,anemployeewhoresignedandleft

12 workyesterday...

13 "IhaveseriousreservationsaboutthisandIdonot

14 believeit'sinthebestinterestsofthebusinessto

15 re‐employFatima.Myteamhaveopenlydiscussedtheir

16 reliefthatFatimaKhanhasresigned.Whentheteam

17 wereinformedthatMsBirdiwouldliketore‐employ

18 Fatima,theydisplayedaunifiedshowofdefiance.Five

19 employees(outofeight)frommyretailteamhave

20 advisedmethattheywillhandintheirresignationsand

21 lookforalternativeemployment,shouldtheybeforced

22 toworkwithFatimaKhanagain.Twooftheseemployees

23 aremy'topteam'staff.

24 "Alloftheseemployeeshaveissuesrelatingto

25 FatimaKhan'sattitudeandcommunicationstyle..."



29

1 Doyouseethat?

2 A.Yes.

3 Q.That'swrittenon2June.Shehadonlyhandedinher

4 resignationacoupleofdaysearlier.Doyouremember;

5 Ijusttookyoutoit?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.SoperhapsIoughttohavecheckedwithyou:areyouone

8 ofthefiveemployeesoutofeightfromMrSingh's

9 retailteamwithwhomhewashavingthesediscussions?

10 A.Yes,wediddiscuss‐‐wedidn'tthinkitwouldbegood

11 forFatimatocomeback.

12 Q.Sowhendidyouhavethediscussion,youfivemembersof

13 theteam‐‐whowerethefive:you...?

14 A.IwouldsayLucy,Steve,Tracey,Ruth.

15 Q.Soyoufive,thesamefiveofthesixwhosignedthe

16 letter,andMrSingh,werehavingthisdiscussionwhen?

17 A.Idon'trememberhavingthisdiscussionwithKam.

18 Irememberdiscussingitamongststaff.

19 Q.Ishelyinghere?

20 A.No,Iwouldn'tsayheislyingbecauseit'showwefelt

21 asateam.

22 Q.Itsays:

23 "Fiveemployees...frommyretailteamhaveadvised

24 methattheywillhandintheir..."

25 Heissayingyouthreatenedtohim‐‐yousaidto

30

1 himthatyouwillhandinyourresignationunlesshe

2 getsridsofFatimaKhan.Doyousaythattohim?

3 A.Idon'tremember.Idon'tremember.Thisisfour‐‐

4 fouryearsago‐‐plusyears.Idon'tremember

5 everything.Idon'tremember‐‐

6 Q.Youdon'tseemtorememberverymuchatthemoment.Do

7 youremembertheconversation?

8 A.Irememberaconversationthatwehadwithstaff.

9 Idon'trememberhavingaconversationwithKambutIdo

10 rememberhavingaconversationwithstaff.

11 Q.Allright.Andthisconversationhappenedwhere,the

12 oneyoucanremember?

13 A.Iwouldsayprobablyontheshopfloor.

14 Q.What,whilstyouwereallservingcustomers?

15 A.No,itwouldn'thavebeenwhilstwewereserving

16 customers.

17 Q.Thefiveofyouwereallchattingawayabout,"I'mgoing

18 toresignunlesstheygetridofFatimaKhan"?

19 A.No,itwouldn'thavebeeninfrontofcustomersatall.

20 Q.No,sowherewasthisconversation?

21 A.Idon'tremember.Idon'tremember.

22 Q.I'msorry.Doyourememberordon'tyouremember?

23 A.Idon'trememberwherethediscussiontookplace.

24 Q.Okay.Whowasinvolvedinthediscussion?

25 A.Well,likeIhavejustsaid,itwouldhavebeen‐‐

31

1 Idon'teven‐‐Imean,Idon'tknow‐‐whenwasthis

2 day?

3 Q.Idon'tknow.Youarethepersonwhoissupposedto

4 havehadthisconversation.

5 A.Wasitdefinitelymeorwasit‐‐wasitdefinitelyme?

6 Q.Idon'tknow.

7 A.Therewasotherstaffthere.

8 Q.Idon'tknow.I'maskingyou?

9 A.Idon'tremember.Idon'tremember.

10 Q.Youdon'tremember.Soyoudon'trememberthe

11 conversation,youdon'tremembermakingthatthreat?

12 A.Idon'teverrememberthreateningtohandmynoticein,

13 no.

14 Q.Okay.Butyoudidhaveaconversationabout

15 FatimaKhan,notwithMrSinghbutwithothermembersof

16 theteam?

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.Wasthisagroupconversation,iewherefiveofyouwere

19 presenttogetherinaroomsomewhere‐‐youdon't

20 rememberwhereitwas?

21 A.No,Idon'teverrememberstandingwithfiveother

22 membersofstaffhavingadiscussionlikethis.

23 Q.No.Sowhatyouarereallyreferringtoissortof‐‐

24 Ihesitatetocallit"gossip"butyouknowwhatImean.

25 Whatyouarereallyreferringtoisinformalchats

32

1 betweenyouandtheotherfourorfiveofyourgroup,as

2 youdescribeditearlier,whereyouweresortof

3 agreeingwitheachotherabout‐‐

4 A.Yes,I'mnotsayingthatKamdidn'tspeakandhaveany

5 conversation,butIdorememberjusttalkingtostaffin

6 generalaboutit.

7 Q.Hm‐mm,andaboutthefact‐‐thisconversationmusthave

8 takenplacebetweenherresigningbyanemailof27May,

9 andhimwritingthisemailon2June.Soit'squite

10 ashortperiodoftime.

11 A.Hm‐mm.

12 Q.Doyousee?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.SowhotoldyouthatshehadresignedandthatMsBirdi

15 wouldliketore‐employFatima?Whotoldyouthat?

16 A.Idon'tknowifIwastoldthat.Idon'trecallbeing

17 toldthatshewasgoingtobere‐employed.Idon't

18 rememberthatconversationofbeingre‐employed.

19 Q.Okay.Heseemstosaythatwhenyouwereinformedthat

20 MsBirdiwouldliketore‐employFatima‐‐Ishouldmake

21 itclear,MrsTidmass,it'salie.MsBirdididn'twant

22 tore‐employFatimaatallandthereisnoevidenceto

23 thateffect,butI'maskingyouaboutthisletter.

24 Whenyouweretoldthat,youdisplayeda"unified

25 showofdefiance";isthatright?Wereyoupartofthe



33

1 unifiedshowofdefiance?

2 A.Idon'tthinkitwouldhavebeengoodforhertocome

3 backtous,no.

4 Q.Soyouweretoldthatshehadresignedandthat

5 SwarandeepBirdiwantsherback?Youweretoldthat?

6 A.No,Iwasn'ttoldthat.

7 Q.No,youweren't?Okay.Soyoucouldn'thavereactedby

8 anunifiedshowofdefiance,becauseyouweren'teven

9 toldthat,wereyou?

10 A.No.

11 Q.Andyoudidn'tmakethethreatofresignation.Whoare

12 the‐‐areyouamemberofthe"topteam"?

13 A.Idon'tknow,Iwouldn'tliketosaythat.

14 Q.Okay,fine.

15 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Whatwasyourjob,MrsTidmass?

16 A.Receptionist.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Receptionist.

18 MRSTUART:YouwerebythisstageawarethatKamSinghhad

19 hadgrievancestakenoutagainsthimbyJasandFatima?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Youwerediscussingwithhim,inchats,ratherthanin

22 aformalmeetingofanysort,thefactthatFatimahad

23 resigned?

24 A.I'veneverspokentoKamaboutFatimaresigning.The

25 conversationhasnevertakenplacewithKam.

34

1 Q.Allright,thenIcan'taskyouaboutit.

2 Thenwemoveon.That's2June.MsBirdithen

3 makesagrievanceagainstKamSingh,page2959.

4 {E/918/2959}Canyouseethat?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q."Iamwritingtoaddanothergrievanceagainst...

7 MrKamaljitSingh...

8 "MrSinghhashadmeetingswithstaffyesterday..."

9 Sothatwouldbe2June.Doyouseeit?2Junewas

10 thedatehewrotehisemailtoAlisonGirollet?

11 A.Okay.

12 Q."MrSinghhashadmeetingswithstaffyesterday

13 followingyourcontactwithhiminwithregardsto

14 Fatima.Hedidnotdiscussanythingwithmepriorto

15 thesemeetings.Insteadhewenttotalkabouttheissue

16 withmembersofstaffandthencametomeinthe

17 afternoonandtoldmeFatimawillnotbecomingbackas

18 hedoesnotwantherbackandneitherdofourstaff

19 members.Iaskedwhichstafftheywere.Heinformedme

20 andinstructedmethatIwasnottohaveanymeeting

21 withthemwithouthisbeingpresent,whichIfound

22 unacceptable.Hehashadmanyone‐to‐onemeetingswith

23 staff,someofthesemeetingsbeingreportedtomeas

24 veryinappropriateanddemeaning.Alsothemeetingshe

25 hadwithstaffwerenotinmypresence."

35

1 Doyouseethat?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Wereyouoneofthepeoplethathespoketo,oneofthe4 staffmembers?5 A.No.6 Q.Areyousure?7 A.Yes.8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:CanIaskyou,MrsTidmass,wereyou9 stillonlyworkingonedayaweekthen,doyouthink?

10 A.ThisiswhatI'mtryingto‐‐thedates,I'mtryingto11 workoutwhenIstartedbackthere,doing,Ithinkit12 wasthreeandthenIuppedittofour.13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andthatwaswhenyoursonwentto14 school,wasit?15 A.Mysonwent‐‐yes,soIthinkhestartedschool‐‐it16 wouldhavebeen2007‐‐no,no,whatamIthinkingof.17 MRSTUART:Whenwasyoursonborn?18 A.2003.19 Q.Soby2009atleast,hewassixandgoingtoschool?20 A.Yes.21 Q.Soby2010youwereworkingfourdaysaweek?22 A.IthinkfirstofallitwasthreeandthenIthink23 Iuppedittofour.24 Q.Threeorfourdaysaweek?25 A.Yes.

36

1 Q.Youweren'tdoingyouronedayaweekanylonger?2 A.No.3 Q.Sothiswasatimewhenyouweredoingyourthreeto4 fourdaysaweek?5 A.Hm‐mm.6 Q.Soyoudon'tthinkyouwereoneofthepeoplethathe7 spoketoon2June?8 A.No.9 Q.No?Allright.Godownthepage,justbelowthesecond

10 holepunch:11 "...veryseriousconcernsinregardstothe12 grievancesbeinginvestigatedatpresentespeciallyin13 lightofMrSingh'sbehaviourtoday."14 Soshehasjustdealtwithyesterday,thatwas15 2June,andnowsheisontothe3rd:16 "IhavebeeninformedbyJas...thatMrSinghhas17 beenhavingmeetingswithalltheremainingshopfloor18 stafftoday.Followingthemeetingsstaffhavebeen19 verycoldtowardsher.Shealsoinformedmethatshe20 hadleftthestoreatherlunchtimetogetsomefood.21 Onherreturntwostaffmembershadtheirbackto22 receptionandwerediscussingthefactthatJashad23 raisedagrievanceagainstMrSingh;theywereunaware24 thatJashadre‐enteredthestore."25 Doyouseethat?



37

1 A.Yes.2 Q.Wasthatyou?3 A.No.4 Q.Doyouknowwhoitwas?5 A.No.6 Q.DidMrSinghspeaktoyouon3Juneaboutthe7 grievances?8 A.No,Kamhasneverdiscussedgrievanceswithme.9 Q.Allright.Sothen,onpage2961,on3June.Doyou

10 seethat?{E/919/2961}11 A.Yes.12 Q.MrRajanwasinvestigatingthegrievances,wasn'the?13 Doyouremember?14 A.Yes.15 Q.Wereyouawareoftheinvestigationofthegrievances16 goingon?17 A.Fromhere?18 Q.WereyouawareinthefirstweekofJune2010that19 grievancesagainstKamSinghwerebeinginvestigatedby20 Specsavers?21 A.Ibelieve‐‐I'mnotsureifthisiswhenIactuallymet22 Riyaz,whenhecameintostore.I'mjusttryingtoget23 thedatesinmyhead.24 Q.Idon'tthinkthisparticularmeetingreferstoyou.25 ThisiswithSteveHummellandLauraWhelton.Laurais

38

1 justanote‐taker.Thisisaninterviewwith

2 SteveHummell;we'regoingtocomeontohimin

3 aminute.

4 WereyouinterviewedbyMrRajan?

5 A.Yes,IbelieveIwas.

6 Q.Andthenweseepage2970,{E/921/2970}MrSinghis

7 formallysuspendedwithimmediateeffectuntilfurther

8 notice.Doyouseethat?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Youtoldmeearlyoninthiscross‐examinationthatyou

11 thoughthehadvoluntarilytakenhimselfoutofthe

12 equation?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.Yourwords.IsaidIwouldshowyouthat,no,that

15 wasn'tright.Doyouseethat,page2970?

16 A.Yes.

17 Q.WereyouawarefromMrSinghthathehadbeensuspended

18 after8June?Didhetellyouhehadbeensuspended?

19 A.Idon'trememberhimsayingtomepersonally‐‐

20 Q.Didsomeothermemberofstaffperhaps,Lucyor...?

21 A.Ithinkwewereallundertheimpressionthatwejust

22 thoughthevoluntarilydid‐‐wassuspended.

23 Q.Okay.DidyouknowSwarandeephadbeensuspended,

24 page2972.{E/922/2972}Theysuspendedheraswell?

25 A.Yes.

39

1 Q.Ah,soyouknewshehadbeensuspendedbutyoudidn't2 knowhehadbeensuspended?3 A.No,Ididn'tsaythat.Isaidthatwethoughthehad4 voluntarilygone.5 Q.That'sright.ButIaskedyou,didyouknowSwarandeep6 hadbeensuspended.Youranswerwasyes?7 A.Well,itwascommonknowledgethatSwarandeepwas8 suspended.9 Q.Okay.

10 A.Ican't‐‐it'sdatesand‐‐it'sdifficultsittinghere11 whenyouaretryingtoanswerthingsandknowing‐‐12 well,wasItherethatday?HowdidIfindthatout?‐‐13 becauseitwasmanyyearsago.It'sdifficult.14 Q.Okay.It'sinthisperiodafter8Junethatyousayyou15 hadyourmeeting‐‐yourdrink,yourpubmeeting‐‐with16 MrSinghandtheothermembersofstaff?17 A.IdidsayIcouldn'ttellyouadefinitedate.Iwould18 havesaidaroundabout‐‐Icannotrememberthedates‐‐19 andIcan't.20 Q.Ihaveaskedyourightupuntilthispointwhetheryou21 havehadanyconversationwithMrSinghaboutthese22 matters,thegrievances,etcetera,andyouhavesofar23 repliedoneveryoccasion:no,notatthispoint,no,24 notatthispoint,no,notatthispoint.Sowhendid25 youhavethismeetinginthepub‐‐

40

1 A.Itwasn'tameeting‐‐itwasn'tanarrangedmeetingat2 apub.Wewentovertothepub.3 Q.Yes?4 A.Andwediscussedbetweenusregardingagrievance.5 Q.Andhecamein?6 A.Hecamein,whenhefinishedworkhecamein,andhe7 said,likeIsaidearlier,"Youhavetogothroughhead8 office.YoucanputinagrievancebutIcannothave9 anythingatalltodowiththis."

10 Q.Andthesixofyoudecided‐‐four,perhaps‐‐decided,11 "Wearenowgoingtoraiseagrievance"?12 A.Therecouldhavebeenmorepeoplethere.Ithinkweall13 went.Itwasn'tjustyoukeepsayingthesix,thefive.14 Itwouldhavebeenallfromwork.Weusedtodrink‐‐15 Q.Sohowmanywerethere?16 A.Idon'tknow.17 Q.WasSwarandeepthere?18 A.No.19 Q.No.WasJasthere?20 A.No.21 Q.WasKevinthere?22 A.No.23 Q.No?Noteverybodythenperhaps?24 A.No.25 Q.No.Anyway,asaresultofyourconversation,which



41

1 includedMrSinghbeingthere,thoseofyouwhodecided

2 todoitdecidedtoraiseagrievance.Isthatright?

3 A.Yes,because‐‐itwasDarshanwhowasveryangry.It

4 wasregardinghersupervisionandshemissedherexams

5 becauseof‐‐todowiththesupervision.Idon't

6 reallyunderstandthewholeofit,butIthinkthatwas

7 todowithSwarandeepmeanttobesupervisingher,

8 signingheroff.Thatwasmissed.Soshedidmiss

9 datesofherexams.

10 Q.Okay.SoDarshanhadacomplaintaboutsupervisionfrom

11 SwarandeepBirdi?

12 A.No.

13 Q.BySwarandeepBirdi,sorry?

14 A.ItwastodowiththesupervisionthatIbelievethat

15 Swarandeepwasmeanttobesigningoff,butshemissed

16 datesfor‐‐becauseSwarandeepcouldn'tdoit,for

17 whateverreasonIdonotknow,andDarshanmisseddates

18 forherexamswhichputherbackonhercourse.Darshan

19 keptaskingaboutthesupervision.Itwasn'thappening.

20 Q.No.

21 A.Darshan'sanextremelylevel‐headed,calmperson,but

22 shewasverycross.

23 Q.Shewas?

24 A.Shewas,yes.

25 Q.I'mnotaskingyouaboutDarshan.I'maskingyouabout

42

1 thegrievancethatyouraisedafterthefiveorsixof

2 you,orhowevermanymoreyousaywerethere,discussed

3 thematterwithMrSinghanddecidedthatyoulot‐‐not

4 Darshan,youlot‐‐wantedtoraiseagrievancewith

5 headoffice?

6 A.Itwasn'talldiscussed‐‐thewholeconversationdidn't

7 takeplacewithKambeingthere.Hewasn'ttherefor

8 long.Heleft.

9 Q.Hesaid,"Ican'tbespeakingtoyouaboutthis.

10 Ican'tgetinvolved"?

11 A.Hedidsaythat.Hecouldn'tgetinvolvedinitatall,

12 whichhedidn't.

13 Q.Heshouldn'thavebeenspeakingtoyou,shouldhe?

14 A.Butwedidn'tgooverthereforameetingtodiscuss

15 agrievance.Wewentovertherelikewedoalotafter

16 work.Maybe‐‐itcouldhavebeenaFriday.

17 Q.Buthewasn'tatwork,washe?

18 A.Sorry?

19 Q.Hewasn'tthere?Hecameinafterwards;youhave

20 alreadytoldusthat?

21 A.Afterwork?

22 Q.Hejoinedthepubeventafteryouhadgoneoverthere?

23 A.Hewasatworkthatday,butifhe'sintheoffice,

24 sometimesweleavethereearly,hehasgotakey,he

25 willleaveonhisownaccord.Hemayhavecomeover

43

1 10/15minutesafterwewerethere.2 Q.Anyway,yousayit'satthismeetingthatthepeoplewho3 madethisletterandsignedthisletter,madethe4 decisiontomaketheletter?5 A.Yes,Iwouldsaythatthiswaswhatwewasgoingtodo.6 Q.Whoweretheringleadersforthisdecisiontowritethis7 letter?8 A.Iwouldn'tcallthemringleaders.LikeIsaidearlier,9 itwasLucyandTraceythatwrotetheletter‐‐

10 Q.Ididn'taskyouthat.Isaidwhoweretheringleaders11 forthedecisiontowritetheletter?12 A.LucyandTracey.Iwouldn'tcallthemringleaders.13 Q.Allright.Ifnotringleaders,whosuggestedthatthe14 sixofyoushouldwritealetter?15 A.LucyandTracey.16 Q.Okay.HadtheyspokenwithKampriorto‐‐17 A.Idon'tknowbutIguessIwouldsaynobecauseitwas18 alldoneonouraccord.19 Q.Butyouhadn'tspokentoKam.Iftheyhadn'tspokento20 Kam,whatwereyougoingtobewritingaletterabout?21 Itsoundsafunnyconversationyouarehaving?22 A.Idon'tunderstandwhatyouaresayingtome.23 Q.YourevidenceisthatLucyandTraceysuggestedthatall24 ofyoushouldwritealettertoheadoffice?25 A.Hm‐mm.

44

1 Q.Whatareyougoingtobewritingabout,ifyouhaven't

2 spokentoKamSinghaboutthegrievancesthatareraised

3 againsthim,andLucyandTraceyhaven'tspokentohim?

4 A.BecauseIdon'tthinkourgrievance‐‐ourgrievance

5 wasn'talltodowithJasandFatima.

6 Q.Sorry,yourgrievancewas...?

7 A.Thatletterwasn'tallaboutJasandFatima.Itwashow

8 wefeltinstoreingeneral.

9 Q.Okay.Page3009istheletter.{E/935.1/3009}Just

10 abovethefirstholepunch:

11 "WefeltostracisedbySwarandeepsinceJasand

12 Fatimabeganworkingwithus."

13 Doyouseethat?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Preferentialtreatmenttothem.That'sJasandFatima,

16 isn'tit?

17 A.IsthisexactlythesameoneIsigned,butonalater

18 date?

19 Q.Idon'tknow.Wewillcometothatinamoment.Doyou

20 seethat:

21 "Wehavebeendistressedbythegrievancestheyhave

22 brought."

23 Sothatisareference,isn'tit,toJasand

24 Fatima'sgrievances?Sowhoeverwrotethisletterknew

25 aboutJasandFatima'sgrievances,didn'tthey?Doyou



45

1 seethewordsI'mtakingyouto?

2 A.Yes,yes.

3 Q.Doyouagreewithmethatwhoeverwrotetheletter‐‐

4 andIknowyousayitwasn'tyou‐‐butwhoeverwrote

5 theletterknewaboutJasandFatima'sgrievances?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.Itthensays:

8 "WefeelSwarandeephastakenabigpartinthem

9 beingbroughttoheadoffice'sattentionunnecessarily."

10 MRJUSTICENUGEE:The"unnecessarily"iscrossedout.

11 MRSTUART:Itisonaversion,youareright,myLord,but

12 onthetyped‐upversiontheword"unnecessarily"

13 appeared,didn'tit?

14 A.Likeyoujustsay,it'scrossedout,so‐‐

15 Q.Doyouknowwhocrosseditout?

16 A.No.

17 Q.Doyouknowwhenitwascrossedout?

18 A.No.

19 Q.Ontheversionthatwasreadouttoyouonthetelephone

20 byLucy‐‐orwasitTracey?

21 A.No,itwasLucy.

22 Q.Didshesay"unnecessarily"whenshereaditout?

23 A.Idon'tremember.

24 Q.Youdon'tremember;okay.

25 A.Ican'tremember‐‐

46

1 Q.Anyway:2 "WefeelSwarandeephastakenabigpartinthem3 beingbroughttoheadoffice'sattention..."4 Eitherunnecessarilyornot,let'sleavethatoutof5 it.6 Whatdidyouknow,youpersonally,becauseyouare7 oneofthesix"we".Whatdidyouknowaboutthe8 Swarandeep'spartinthesegrievancesgoingtohead9 office?Whatdidyouknowaboutthat?

10 A.Ididn't.Weknewthatclearlysomethingwasgoingon11 because‐‐12 Q.Butthat'snotwhatitsays.Itdoesn'tsay"wefeel13 thatsomethingisgoingon";itsays:14 "WefeelSwarandeephastakenabigpartinthem15 beingbroughttoheadoffice'sattention."16 Sowhatdidyouknow?17 A.Becauseshewas‐‐therewastalking‐‐they'dbein18 testroom1,thethreeofthem,likeIsaidaboutthe19 incidentontheroof.Soclearlysomethingwasgoing20 on.21 Q.MrsTidmass,theJasgrievanceisthathermalebossis22 sexuallyharassingher.Ihavetakenyoutoit.23 A.Yes,youhave,yes.24 Q.ShesaysthatshehasbroughtitupwithKamSinghand25 thathehasn'tchangedhisbehaviourandsonowshe

47

1 wantstoraiseagrievanceandshegoestothefemale

2 boss,Swarandeep.Thereisnothingwrongwiththat,is

3 there?Youarenotsayingthat'sawrongthing?

4 A.No,notatall,no.

5 Q.Fine.SotheseconversationswhereJashasgoneto

6 Swarandeepandsaid,"Iwanttocomplainabout

7 KamSingh",thereisnothingimproperinwhatSwarandeep

8 isdoingatthatstageisthere?

9 A.No.

10 Q.No.AndthenIhavetakenyoutohowJasraisesformal

11 grievancesatameetingandtheninwritingandthen

12 Fatimaraisesaformalgrievanceinwriting,directto

13 headoffice,nottoSwarandeep,andthenFatimaresigns.

14 Ihavetakenyoutoallofthat.Soonwhatbasisdo

15 yousay:

16 "WefeelSwarandeephastakenabigpartinthem

17 beingbroughttoheadoffice'sattention."

18 A.Maybebecauseatthetimewedidn'tknowwhatthe

19 grievanceswereabout.Jasneverspoketo‐‐Jasnever

20 spoketousaboutitorFatima‐‐maybetheyspoketo

21 eachother.

22 Q.Perhapsyoupersonallydidn'tfeelthatSwarandeepwas

23 doinganythingwronginrelationtotheseformalsexual

24 harassmentgrievancesthatwerebeingmadeagainstKam?

25 Isthatfair?

48

1 A.No‐‐yes,Ican'tsaythatthat'swrong,whytheywent

2 toheraboutit.

3 Q.AndthatSwarandeep,asfarasyouareconcerned,didn't

4 doanythingwronginrespectofthosegrievances?

5 A.No.

6 Q.Thankyou.

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,Ithinkyouneedtobe

8 careful.Yousaid"theseformalsexualharassment

9 grievances",butIdon'tthinkthatFatimaKhan‐‐

10 MRSTUART:Youarequiteright,myLord,youareright,

11 Imustbeverycareful.

12 ThesexualharassmentgrievancebroughtbyJasand

13 thegrievancebroughtbyFatima,whereshecomplained

14 thatshehadbeensubjectedtodetrimentalconductby

15 MrSinghbecauseofhersupportofJas.Youunderstand

16 that'sthenatureofhergrievance?

17 A.Okay,Idonow.Ididn'tknowwhatFatima'sgrievance

18 was.

19 Q.Yes.Itgoeson:

20 "Weareawareshe..."

21 ThatmustbeSwarandeep,Ithink:

22 "Weareawareshehasapproachedothermembersof

23 ourteam,askingiftheyhaveanyissues(grievances)

24 withKam."

25 Andyouareoneofthe"we"whosignedthis?



49

1 A.Hm‐mm.

2 Q.Pleaseexplaintothecourt:whatwereyouawareof

3 aboutSwarandeepapproachingothermembersoftheteam

4 atthattime?

5 A.Icanonlyspeakformyself.Sheneverapproachedme‐‐

6 Q.No.

7 A.‐‐todoagrievanceagainstKam.

8 Q.Right.Andyouarenotawareofanyspecificoccasion

9 whensheapproachedanothermemberoftheteam,areyou,

10 youpersonally?

11 A.No.

12 Q.No:

13 "Thishasbeeninstigatedbyherselfandnotby

14 thosemembersofstaff."

15 That'sobviouslynotyourevidence;that'ssomebody

16 elsehassaidthat?

17 A.Sorry,wherearewe?

18 Q.Thenextsentence:

19 "Thishasbeeninstigatedbyherself..."

20 Youcan'tbemakingthatallegationbecauseyouhave

21 justconfirmedthatyoudidn'tknow‐‐youhadno

22 personalknowledgethatshehadapproachedothermembers

23 ofstaff.That'sright,isn'tit?

24 A.Yes.

25 Q.Yes:

50

1 "WerealiseSwarandeepandKamhaveadifficult

2 relationship."

3 Thatprobablyistheonethinginthisletterthat

4 youcanspeakto.Isthatfair?

5 A.Yes,theydidn'tgeton.

6 Q."Swarandeepisalwayscommentingonthisfactandhas

7 madeitanissueinregardstostoreissuesinthepast,

8 evenontheshopfloor.Kamdoesnotinvolveusin

9 their'problems'..."

10 That'snotquiteright,isit?Inthepub,Kamis

11 tellingyouabouttheproblems,isn'the?

12 A.No,heisn't.No,notinthepub.

13 Q.Kamistheonewhotoldthestaff‐‐falselytoldthe

14 staff‐‐thatSwarandeepwantedFatimaback.That's

15 right,isn'tit?

16 A.No,thatneverhappenedatthepub.

17 Q.Ididn'tsayinthepub.Didithappenornot?Isit

18 KamwhowasthesourceoftheassertionthatSwarandeep

19 wantedFatimaback?

20 A.Like‐‐IneverhadthatconversationwithKam.

21 Q.Didyouhearfromothersthatthatwasbeingallegedby

22 Kam?

23 A.NotbyKam.Idon'tremember‐‐Idon'tactually

24 rememberherwantingtocomebackanyway.

25 Q.Right,okay:

51

1 "Kamdoesnotinvolveusintheir'problems'and2 triestomakeourworkingenvironmentashappyand3 smooth‐runningaspossible."4 Isitfairtosay,MrsTidmass,thatyouhadavery5 goodworkingrelationshipwithKamSingh?6 A.Yes,Ido.7 Q.Youhadapoorworkingrelationshipwith8 SwarandeepBirdi?9 A.No,notalways,no.

10 Q.Notalways?11 A.No.12 Q.ButbythetimeKamSinghhasturnedyouagainsther,13 youhadapoorworkingrelationship?14 A.HeneverturnedmeagainstSwarandeep.15 Q.Whendidyoucometohaveapoorworkingrelationship16 withSwarandeepBirdi?17 A.Ican'tsaypersonallyitwaspoor.Ihavealwayssaid18 personallySwarandeephasneverdoneanyharmtome.19 Ijustthinkitwasjustanawfulworkingenvironment20 becausetheyweren'tcompatible.21 Q.Leavethattooneside.Iunderstandthatyou,the22 staff,recognised‐‐pickeduponthefactthatKamand23 Swarandeepdidn'tgeton;yourwords.That'sagiven.24 Iacceptthat.I'maskingyouaboutyourworking25 relationshipwithSwarandeepBirdi.Areyousayingthat

52

1 actually,atthistime,youhavingcomebackfromone

2 dayaweektofourdaysaweek,youhadareasonable

3 workingrelationshipwithSwarandeepBirdi?

4 A.Yes,Ihadneverhadany‐‐Ineverhadnoproblemswith

5 Swarandeep.

6 Q.SoyouhadneverhadproblemswithSwarandeepBirdi,but

7 thenextsentenceinyourlettersays:

8 "Inthepastmanyofushavehadissueswith

9 Swarandeepbuthavebeenscaredofrepercussionshadwe

10 decidedtomakeacomplaint."

11 That'sobviouslynotyouthatyouarereferringto?

12 A.That'snotmepersonally.

13 Q.That'snotyou.Doyouknowwhoaretheoneswhoare

14 scaredofrepercussions,whohaveissuesandwere

15 scared,becauseMsBirdisaysshedoesn'tknowanyone

16 whohadagrievanceagainstherintheeightyearsprior

17 toMrSinghcomingon?

18 A.ShehadsaidsomethingstoLucybefore.Icanonlygo

19 oncertainthingsinthepastthathavehappenedwhen

20 Iwasn'tatworkthatday,butLucywasactuallyhaving

21 amiscarriageatwork.Sheila,whoworkedthereatthe

22 time,wantedtotakeLucytothehospital.Swarandeep

23 saidwecouldn'tloseamemberofstaff‐‐another

24 memberofstaffofftheshopfloor,soLucyhadtoget

25 ataxitothehospitalwhileshewashaving



53

1 amiscarriage.

2 Q.That'snottrueandit'saverydeeplyhurtful

3 allegation,butIwanttoknowwhereyouaremakingthat

4 allegationfrom.Wereyoupresent?

5 A.No,Iwasn'tpresent,no.

6 Q.Sowhotoldyouthispackoflies?

7 A.Sheila,whounfortunatelyisnolongerwithus.

8 Q.Right.

9 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,atsomestageweshouldtake

10 abreak.

11 MRSTUART:I'monmylastbitoftheletter.


13 MRSTUART:Andthenit'saconvenientmoment,myLord.

14 Thenextbitsays:

15 "Swarandeepcanmakeyoufeelveryintimidatedand

16 pressuredandwehavebeenfrightenedthatshouldwe

17 havemadeanycomplaints,shewouldhavemadeit

18 impossibletoworkwithher."

19 That'snotyousayingthat,isit?

20 A.No,Iwouldsayshecanbeintimidatingattimes.

21 Q.Youhadn'traisedanygrievancepreviously?

22 A.No.

23 Q.Youhadagoodworkingrelationshipwithher,youhave

24 justsaid?

25 A.Yes.

54

1 Q.Whatwasthepurposeofthisletter?

2 A.It'showwefelt,thatsomethinghadtochange.Wefelt

3 thatKam‐‐andIstilldo‐‐isagooddirector.He

4 wantedtochangethingsforthegood.Wedidn'twantto

5 losehimasadirector.Sowefeltthatthingsjusthad

6 tochange.

7 Q.Soisitfairtosay‐‐isasummaryofitthatyoufelt

8 thepurposeoftheletterwastosupportKamwithhead

9 office?YouwerewritingtoheadofficetosupportKam?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.Andif,aspartofthat,youcriticisedSwarandeep‐‐

12 becausethat'swhatitseemstodo,doesn'tit‐‐you

13 werepreparedtodothataswell?

14 A.Yes.

15 MRSTUART:MyLord,wouldthatbeconvenient?Ihavegot

16 todealwithMrsTidmass'slaterinterview?

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrsTidmass.

18 MRSTUART:Butwehavedealtwithbyfarthemajorityand

19 itwon'tbeverymuchlongerwithMrsTidmass.

20 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Wewilltakeabreakforfiveminutes.

21 MrsTidmass,wearegoingontakeabreakforfive

22 minutes.Sinceyouareinthemiddleofgivingyour

23 evidence,youmustn'tspeaktoanybodyduringthebreak

24 aboutthecaseoryourevidenceatall.

25 Fiveminutes.

55

1 (11.46am)

2 (Shortbreak)

3 (11.50am)

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,MrStuart.

5 MRSTUART:MrsTidmass,wearemovingonto22June,so

6 thatwouldbesixdaysaftertheletterisdated,but

7 Ithinkyoumusthavesigneditsometimebetweenthe

8 twodates,16and22June.

9 A.Ican'trememberwhenIsignedit.

10 Q.Youcan'tremembersigningit?

11 A.Ican'trememberwhenIsignedit,whatdate.

12 Q.Canyourememberthecircumstancesofsigningit?

13 A.Yes,whenwewas‐‐Ibelieveitwaswhenwewasatthe

14 HiltonHotel,Ibelieve.

15 Q.SoyouwenttotheHiltonHotel,what,anumberofyou?

16 A.Yes,wewasalltakenindividually.

17 Q.Andatthatpointyouputyournameontheletter?

18 A.Ithinkitwasthatday,Ithink.

19 Q.Yes.Wouldthatbe22June?

20 A.IsaidIcan'trememberwhatdateitis.

21 Q.Okay.I'lljusttryandremindyou.Gotopage3088.

22 {E/944/3088}Doyouhavethat?

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.It'sanoteofaninvestigationinterviewheldwithyou.

25 Doyouseethat?

56

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.Andwehavesimilarnotesdatedthesameday,for

3 exampleatpage3085.{E/943/3085}RuthWottonwas

4 interviewedat11.10inthemorning.Doyouseethat?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.Andat3082,PatriceO'Brienwasinterviewedat11.36.

7 Doyouseethat?{E/942/3082}

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.Andthenatpage3091,onthesameday,LucyHornbywas

10 interviewedat9.05.{E/945/3091}Andthenatpage3095

11 MrHummellwasinterviewed.{E/946/3095}Thetimeisn't

12 shown,butitmusthavebeenbefore9.57pmbecauseon

13 page3097,hismeetingwasclosedat9.57am.

14 {E/946/3097}.

15 WasthatthemorningoftheHiltonHotel;doyou

16 remember?

17 A.Ican'tremember.Ithinkthiswaswhenwewasatthe

18 HiltonHotel.

19 Q.Okay.Howmanyinvestigationinterviewsdidyouhave

20 withDavidClark?

21 A.No,isthis‐‐Ican'trememberifthisistheonethat

22 wasinstore,butIthoughtthatwasRiyazthatIsawin

23 store.

24 Q.YouthoughtitwasRiyaz?

25 A.Yes,heinterviewedmeonceatthestore.Ican't



57

1 rememberifthiswastheoneattheHilton.

2 Q.MrClarkisnotRiyazRajan.

3 A.No,Iknowthat.Iknowthat.

4 Q.Doyouknowthetwoofthem?

5 A.Yes,IhavemetMrClarkoncewhenhehasinterviewedme

6 herebutIcan'trememberifthiswastheinterviewat

7 theHiltonorifthiswasinstore.

8 Q.HowmanytimesdidyoumeetMrClark?

9 A.Well,Ibelieveittobeonceandthismusthavebeen

10 themeetinginstore.

11 Q.HowmanytimesdidyoumeetMrClark?

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Sheansweredthat,shesaidonce.

13 A.Idid.

14 MRSTUART:Ithinkshedid,butIdon'tbelieveher

15 evidencecanbecorrectsoI'mgoingtogiveherthe

16 opportunitytocorrectit.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Puttoherwhatyousayyourinstructions

18 are.

19 MRSTUART:It'snotmyinstructions;it'stherespondent's

20 evidence.

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Ortherespondent'sevidence.Whatever

22 itis.

23 MRSTUART:Yes.DidyoumeetMrClarkonceattheHilton

24 Hotelandonceinthestore?

25 A.Idon'tknow.Iremembermeeting‐‐Icouldn'teven

58

1 tellyouwhatMrClarklookedlike.2 Q.Youcan't?3 A.No.Idon'tknow‐‐allIknowisthatwewas4 interviewedbyagentlemanattheHiltonbutalso5 clearlyinstore.6 Q.What,thesameperson?7 A.No,itwas‐‐IthinkinstorewasRiyazandthisis8 why‐‐butIdon'tknowifthiswastheinterviewthat9 tookplaceattheHilton.Idon'tknow.

10 Q.Let'shelpyouout.3088youhavegotopen.That's11 saidtobeTuesday22June?{E/944/3088}12 A.Yes.13 Q.That'sthemanuscriptinterview?14 A.Hm‐mm.15 Q.AndthatpurportstobewithMrClark.Doyouseethat?16 A.Hm‐mm.17 Q.Whilstkeepingthatopen,couldyouhavebundleE12,18 page3187{E/971/3187}.Aboutthreeweekslaterthere19 issaidtohavebeenaninterviewwithyouatthe20 Dartfordstore.Thisnowisatyped‐upnote?21 A.Yes,sothat'sobviouslywhatthatis,yes.22 Q.Yousaythat'sobviously‐‐Iaskedyouhowmanytimes23 haveyoumetMrClark,yousaidonce.Iaskedyou24 against,yousaidonce.Iaskedyouagain.25 A.Isaidonce,Ithink.

59

1 Q.Iwasquiteproperlytoldbythejudgetoexplainwhy.

2 CanyouremembermeetingMrClarktwiceorcan't

3 you?

4 A.No,Ihaveclearlymethimtheonce.

5 Q.No,youhaveclearlymethimthetwice?

6 A.Sorry?

7 Q.Youclearlymethimthetwice.

8 A.I'mjusttalkingaboutthisletterhere,whichwasthe

9 oneinstore.

10 Q.Whichoneareyoulookingat?

11 A.Theoneon3187isthetyped‐upversionof‐‐

12 Q.3187,thetyped‐upversionisinstore?

13 A.Yes,yes.

14 Q.Itsays,"InDartfordstore"?{E/971/3187}

15 A.Yes,whichiswhatIhavejustsaid.Thisoneistyped

16 upthenfrom3088.{E/944/3088}Thiswasthenotesthat

17 weredoneinstore,whichIknownow,butIcan't

18 rememberifitwasinstore.

19 Q.No,no,MrsTidmass.Thatmaywellbewhathappened,

20 Idon'tknow,allofthesenotesarehighlysuspicious.

21 Butitisbeingputforwardbytherespondentsthatyou

22 hadtwointerviews‐‐

23 MRPOTTS:MyLord,isthereaquestionthere?

24 MRSTUART:Yes.Itisbeingputforwardbytherespondents

25 thatyouhadtwointerviews.Page3187isnotthe

60

1 typed‐upnoteoftheinterviewat3088.Doyou

2 understand,MrsTidmass?

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,youshouldmakeallowancesfor

4 thefactthatIverymuchdoubtMrsTidmasshasstudied

5 thesedocumentsinthewaythatyouhavedoubtlesshave.

6 MRSTUART:Ithinksheshouldhavedone,myLord.Shewas

7 sentjustthesethreedocuments.

8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Right.

9 MRSTUART:Theletterandthetwointerviewnotes.The

10 hearsaynoticereferstotheletterandthetwosetsof

11 interviewnotes.Thereisnoreasonforhernottohave

12 studiedjustthesethreedocumentsand,giventhatall

13 ofherevidencethatisputforwardbytherespondents

14 inrespectofherrelatessimplytothatletterand

15 thesetwointerviewnotes,Ihumblysuggestthatshe

16 couldwellhaveunderstoodthatitisbeingsuggested

17 thatshehadtwointerviews.

18 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrsTidmass,whatcounselissuggesting

19 toyouisthatwhenyoulookatthetwodocuments,the

20 handwrittenoneat3088andthetypedoneat3087,they

21 arerecordsofdifferentmeetings.

22 A.Okay.

23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:WhichbothappeartobewithDC,

24 MrClark.Ithinkheisgoingtoaskyouwhetheryou

25 nowrememberhavingtwomeetingswithMrClark,oneon



61

1 Tuesday22June,whichisthehandwrittenoneat3088,

2 andoneon13JulyattheDartfordstore,whichis3187,

3 becausethat'swhatdocumentsappeartosuggest.

4 Isthatwhatyouweregoingtoask,MrStuart?

5 MRSTUART:Yes.

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Sodoyouremembernow,lookingat

7 thosetwodocuments,havingtwomeetingswithMrClark?

8 A.Yes,yes.

9 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Right.That'sdifferentfromwhatyou

10 saidbefore,whereyouonlyrememberedonemeeting.

11 A.Yes.

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Right.

13 MRSTUART:Thefirstinterview,theJuneinterview,

14 page3088:isthattheonethatyourecallasbeingat

15 theHiltonHotel?

16 A.Yes,Ibelieveitwas.

17 Q.Anddoyourecallthatyouandanumberofothermembers

18 ofstaffwerethere,includingtheonesIhavejust

19 takenyouto:PatriceO'Brien,RuthWotton,

20 StephenHummell,etcetera?

21 A.Yes,weweretakenfromstoretotheHiltonseparately.

22 Q.Okay.AndIthinkit'snowyourevidencethatitwason

23 thatoccasionthatyousignedtheletter?

24 A.Yes.

25 Q.Sopriortothispoint,youhadn'tevensignedthe

62

1 letter?

2 A.No,becauseIbelieve,whenyoushowedmethefirstone,

3 mysignatureisn'tonthatonebecauseIwasn'tinwork

4 thedaythattheletterwastypedup.

5 Q.Okay.Page3088.Accordingtothis,thefirstquestion

6 thatMrClarkaskedyouiswhetheryouarefamiliarwith

7 theletter.Ibelievethat'swhatitsays.

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.Thehandwritingisnotgreat.

10 A.No.

11 Q.Doyouremember?

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.Andthenyousay:

14 "I'llsignitnow."

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.DidyouexplaintoMrClarkthecircumstancesofthe

17 creationoftheletterthatyouhavejustexplainedto

18 thiscourt?

19 A.No,Idon'tbelieveso.

20 Q.ThemeetingwithMrSinghinthepub?

21 A.Itwasn'tameetingwithMrSinghinthepub;itwasn't

22 ameetingwithhim.

23 Q.Icallitameeting,theoccasionatthepubwhere

24 MrSinghwasthereandasaresultofthatoccasionit

25 wasdecidedbythesixofyoutowritetheletter.

63

1 That'syourevidencethistocourtthismorning.2 DidyouexplainallofthistoMrClark,thatthis3 ishowthelettercametobewritten?4 A.No.5 Q.DidyoumentiontoMrClarkthatallofthestuffinthe6 letterwasn'treallywhatyoupersonallythoughtor7 knew;itwaswhatLucyhadwritten?8 A.Iwasonlyansweringquestionsthathewasaskingme.9 Q.Heasksyou‐‐thisisjustbythefirstholepunch:

10 {E/944/3088}11 "Intheletteritsaysaboutweareawareof12 Swarandeepaskingothermemberstosigngrievances13 againstKam."14 Iaskedyouaboutthat,justabout25minutesago.15 Andyourresponseaswrittendownis:16 "Jascameinoneday..."17 Doyouseethat?18 A.Yes:19 Q."...thedayshewasmeetingheadoffice."20 A.Yes.21 Q."...andwantedtospeaktoLarraineandapproachedher22 toputagrievanceinagainstKam.Thisisvery23 unprofessionalandoutoforder."24 Doyouseethat:25 "Ihavebeenatthestorefornineyearsandover

64

1 thelasttwoyearswithKambeingtherehavebeenthe

2 best.WehaveneverhadsupportbySwarandeepinmy

3 nineyears.Kamisverysupportiveofthestaff..."

4 Doyouseethat?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q."...rewardsusforourhardwork."

7 Yes?

8 A.Hm‐mm.

9 Q.DidyouexplaintoMrClarkthatyoupersonallywerenot

10 awareofMsBirdiencouragingstafftomakegrievances,

11 despitewhatisintheletter?

12 A.Sorry,saythatagain,please?

13 Q.WhenIaskedyouaboutitthismorning,youconfirmedto

14 hisLordshipthatyoupersonallywerenotawareof

15 Swarandeepencouragingstafftomakegrievances?

16 A.Sheneveraskedmetomakeagrievance,so,no.Whether

17 sheaskedothermembersofstaff,Idon'tknow,butshe

18 neveraskedme.

19 Q."Whethersheaskedanothermemberofstaff,Idon't

20 know".Thatmeansyoupersonallyarenotawareofany

21 occasionwhenshe,Swarandeep,encouragedothermembers

22 ofstafftomakegrievances?

23 A.No.

24 Q.That'sright.Thelettersaid:

25 "WeareawarethatSwarandeep..."



65

1 Etcetera.Doyousee?Andthat'swhathewas

2 askingyouabout.SoI'maskingyou,didyoutell

3 MrClarkthatyoupersonallywerenotawareof

4 Swarandeepdoingthat?Becausehedoesn'tseemtohave

5 writtenthatdowninhisnote.

6 A.No,but,likeIsay,Iwouldhaveonlyansweredthe

7 questionsthathehasaskedme.Ifhe'snotwritten

8 downanythinglikethat,then,no.

9 Q.Butthatisthequestion.Hisquestionis:

10 "Intheletteritsaysaboutweareawareof

11 Swarandeepaskingothermemberstosigngrievances

12 againstKam."

13 SoyourhonestanswertoMrClarkmusthavebeen,

14 "David,I'mpersonallynotawarethatSwarandeepdid

15 that".DoyourecalltellingMrClarkthat?

16 A.Sorry,whereisthat?Whereisthatyouarereading

17 thatfrom‐‐

18 Q.Okay.3088bythefirstholepunch?

19 A.Yes.

20 Q.Itsays:

21 "DC:wearetryingtosortthroughthecurrent

22 issueswiththedirectors'relationships.Theletter

23 obviouslyraisessomeconcernsfromthestaffatthe

24 store.Intheletteritsaysaboutweareawareof

25 Swarandeepaskingothermemberstosigngrievances

66

1 againstKam."

2 Doyousee?

3 A.Hm‐mm.

4 Q.Soheisaskingaboutthatallegationintheletter,

5 thatSwarandeepwasgettingothermembersofstaffto

6 signgrievancesagainstKam?

7 A.ButthenthisiswhatIsaidtoyouearlier.Ihave

8 justrepliedbackbywhenJascameinthatdayandshe

9 wentupstairstoLorrainewhowasinthecallcentreand

10 askedheraboutputtingagrievanceinagainstKamand

11 shesaidno,becauseIhaven'tgotanyreasonto.

12 Q.ThathasnothingtodowithSwarandeep,doesit?

13 A.No.

14 Q.Somyquestionis:didyoutellMrClark‐‐hehasjust

15 writtendownoneanswer,allaboutsomethingcompletely

16 different,JasandLarraine.DidyouanswerMrClark's

17 questionhonestly,asyouhaveansweredmyquestionthis

18 morning,tosay,"David,Ipersonallydon'tknowthat

19 Swarandeepdidthat"?Didyoutellhimthat?

20 A.No,becausethisiswhatIhavesaid,so,no.

21 Q.Yousaythisiswhatyousaid.Doyourecallwhatyou

22 saidatthismeeting?

23 A.Yes,Ido.Thisdoes‐‐IknowwhatIsaid.Iknow

24 thatallthisthatIhavewrittendownhere,butyou're

25 tryingtosaytomeregardingSwarandeepputtingin‐‐

67

1 Ihavejustansweredaquestionthathehaswrittenout.

2 IhavenotmentionedSwarandeep.Idon'tknow‐‐

3 Q.CanyouactuallyrecallwhatyousaidtoMrClarkatthe

4 meeting?Withoutreferencetothisdocument,asyousit

5 herenow,canyourememberwhatyoutoldMrClark?

6 A.Thisis‐‐yes‐‐becauseobviouslyIhavereadit,

7 Ihavehadithand‐deliveredatwork,yes,Idoremember

8 sayingthis.ButIcan'tsaytoyouwordforwordwhat

9 Isaidtohim.

10 Q.No.

11 A.Thisiswrittendown,whatIhavesaidtohim,butyou

12 aretryingtosayifanythingelsethathehasnot

13 writtenstuffdown‐‐

14 Q.Yes,youmighthavesaidsomethingmorethanthis?

15 A.No,no.

16 Q.It'snotpossiblethatyousaidanythingmorethanthis?

17 A.No,Iwouldn'tsay‐‐Iwouldsayhehaswrittendown

18 exactlywhatIhavesaidtohim.

19 Q.Soareyousayingthatyouhavearecollectiontodayof

20 exactlywhatyousaidtohim?

21 A.Notwordfor‐‐howcouldIsaywordforwordwhenthis

22 is,what‐‐

23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Fouryears.

24 A.Fouryearsago.HowcanIsaywordforword?

25 MRSTUART:Letmemakeitclear,I'mnotaskingyouword

68

1 forword,butwhetherthesubstanceofwhatyousaidto2 himisallwrittendown?3 A.Yes,Iwouldsayitisallwrittendown,whatIsaid4 thatday.5 Q.Inorderforyoutosaythatonoath,youmustbesaying6 thatyoucanrememberthesubstanceofallthatyousaid7 tohim?8 A.Idon'ttakelightlyswearingonoath.9 Q.Thenhisnextquestionwas:

10 "Canyouthinkofanyincidentswhereeither11 directorhasunderminedtheother?"12 Doyouseethat?13 A.Yes.14 Q.Andyourefertotherepairjobsincident?15 A.Yes.Ithinkthatwasoneofthe‐‐oneofthemembers16 ofstaffhadbrokenaframebydoinganadjustmenton17 it,whichwasn'taSpecsaversframe,soKamsaidmaybe18 thatweshouldnotrepairotherspectaclesthataren't19 Specsavers.20 Q.Andyoureferredto‐‐overthepageat308921 {E/944/3089}‐‐adrinksvouchersincident,"whichshe22 toldmetolockinthesafe"?23 A.Yes,thatwastodowiththeChristmas‐‐oneofour24 Christmasdos.Ithaddrinksvouchersinit.25 Isignedforalotofthingsonreception,Idon't



69

1 knowwhatI'msigningforalot‐‐clearlyI'mthere,

2 so‐‐butmynamewasagainstit,obviously.Swarandeep

3 keptaskingwhere,Ihadsignedforit,Imustknow

4 whereitis.No.

5 Weneverwentthroughpostthen.Itwasonlyever

6 Swarandeepthatwentthroughthepost.Weneveropened

7 anypost.Wejustusedtokeepitunderreception,but

8 itwasjustquitebizarrethatIwasbombardedwith,

9 "Youmustknowwhereitis,youhavesignedforit".

10 No,Ididn'tknowwhereitwas.

11 Q.Inresponsetohisquestion:

12 "...anyincidentswhereonedirectorhasundermined

13 theother?"

14 Youmentionedtheonerepairjobincident,you

15 mentionthedrinksvoucherincident‐‐

16 A.Thatwasn'treallytodowithKam,though.

17 Q.No.

18 A.Ididn'tmentionKaminthat.

19 Q.Thenyousay:

20 "Ifyouaskheranythingontheshopfloorshewill

21 say,'SpeaktoKam'.IfyoudidthiswithKam,hewould

22 say,'I'llspeaktoSwarandeep'."

23 A.Hm‐mm.

24 Q.That'sthesumtotalofyouranswertounderminingeach

25 other?

70

1 A.Yes,itnever‐‐

2 Q.Fine.Andthenheasked:

3 "Anyotherexampleswhereyouhaveseenanyattempts

4 toundermineeachother?

5 "Answer:No,Ihaveheardraisedvoices‐‐"

6 A.Yes,becauseitwouldbeofftheshopfloor.

7 Q.Yes:

8 "Anythingelseyouthinkweshouldbeawareof?"

9 Doyouseethat?Andyougiveyourexampleabout

10 Sheila?

11 A.Hm‐mm.

12 Q.Whichseemstobemoreofanallegation‐‐it'sdenied

13 butIdon'tneedtogointoitverymuch‐‐that

14 Swarandeepdidn'tshowsufficientsympathytowardsthe

15 staffwhenSheila‐‐

16 A.No,therewasn't.Iwentintowork.Sheila'sdaughter

17 phonedmeat7o'clockinthemorningandIphonedinto

18 workandspoketoDenise,whowasworkinginthelabat

19 thetime.Iwentintowork.Wewereallvery

20 distraughtandIwentinthestaffroomwithDeniseand

21 Tracey.WewasallcryingandSwarandeepkeptopening

22 thedoorofthestaffroomeveryfiveminutesorsowith

23 aclipboardinherhandandlookingatherwatch,asif

24 tosay,"Hurryup".

25 Q.Anyway,it'sright,isn'tit,thatSwarandeepclosedthe

71

1 storeforthedayforthefuneralofSheila?2 A.Onourrequest‐‐thestaffrequestedthatweshould3 shutthestoreoutofrespect‐‐4 Q.Okay.5 A.‐‐forSheila.6 Q.Butthat'snotreallyanythingabouttherelationship7 betweenSwarandeepandKam,isit?8 A.What,theSheila‐‐9 Q.TheSheilaincident?

10 A.No.11 Q.No.Finally,thelastquestionheasksis:12 "Whatwasherrelationshipwiththeprevious13 director?14 "Answer:Shebulliedhimsomuch.Hewasanice15 guy."16 ThiswasNimPatel?17 A.Yes.18 Q.Themanwhoadmittedstealingfromher?19 A.Buthe‐‐yes,butatthetime,obviously,butIdidn't20 knowthatNimwasstealingfromthebusiness.He21 wasn't‐‐22 Q.Ofcourseyoudidn't;nobodyhadtoldyou,hadthey?23 A.No,hewasaniceguy.24 Q.Swarandeephadn'tsaidthathewasstealing,hadshe?25 A.Shenevertoldmethathewasstealing,no.

72

1 Q.Shehadn'ttoldthestaff?2 A.Idon'tknow,Ican'tspeakforthembutI'mtalking3 aboutme,thatshenevertoldme.4 Q.Youwerenotawarethathehadbeenstealing?5 A.No.6 Q.Sonomemberofstaff,intheirgossipwithyou,their7 chatswithyou,hadsaidthathehadbeenstealing?8 A.No.9 Q.Allright,youcanputawayE11.

10 Ijustfinallyhavetoaskyouabouttheinterview11 on13July,E12,page3187.{E/971/3187}Doyouhave12 that?13 A.Yes.14 Q.Doyourememberthis‐‐doyounowrememberthis‐‐15 A.Yes.16 Q.‐‐interview?17 YousaidyouhadaninterviewwithRiyazRajan.Do18 youremember?Yousaidthatthismorning.19 A.Yes.20 Q.Whenwasthat?21 A.Idon'tknow.Ican'ttellyoudates.Idon'tknow.22 Idon'tevenknow‐‐Idon'tknow.23 Q.Okay,whatwasittodowith?Whatwasheis24 investigating?Thatmighthelpustopinitdown.25 A.Iactuallycan'tremember.Ican'tremember.



73

1 Q.WasheinvestigatingJasand/orFatima'sgrievances2 againstKam?3 A.Idon'tknow;Idon'tknow.Youcankeepaskingmebut4 Icannotremember,unlessthereissomethingputin5 frontofmeandthenImightthink,"Okay,yes,thathas6 comeback".7 Idon'tremember.8 Q.Right,okay.AnywaythisisMrClarkagainandthis9 timeit'satthestore.Doyouseethat?

10 A.Yes.11 Q.Bythefirstholepunchon3187:{E/971/3187}12 "Question:Canyouconfirmthatyousignedthe13 letter..."14 Isityourevidencethatyousignedtheletterin15 frontofhimonthefirstoccasion,attheJunemeeting?16 Whogaveyouthelettertosignon22June?17 A.ItwouldhavebeenMrClark.18 Q.MrClark.Sodidyouthinkthatwasaslightlyodd19 question:20 "Canyouconfirmthatyousignedtheletter..."21 Sincehehimselfhadhandedyoutheletterandsaid,22 "Canyousignthat,please"?Doyouthinkitanodd23 question?24 A.Well,no,Idon'tfinditanoddquestion.25 Q.Okay:

74

1 "...andthatyoudidsowillinglyandwithoutany

2 peerpressure.

3 "Answer:Yes,Iwashappytosign,Ihelpedwith

4 theletter."

5 ThathasnotbeenyourevidencetohisLordshipthis

6 morning,thatyouhelpedwiththedraftingofthe

7 letter?

8 A.No,butlikeIsaid,thatwaswhenIbelievethatLucy

9 phonedmeanddiscussedtheletter.Maybethatwaswhen

10 shesaid,"Whatdoyouthink?"and‐‐well,I'veagreed

11 withit.No,Iwasn'tinstore,Ididn'twritethe

12 letter.

13 Q.No,yourevidencetohisLordshipwasshephonedyouand

14 readouttheletterthathadalreadybeendraftedand

15 said,"Wouldyousignthat?"andyousaid,"Yes,

16 Iwill".Thatwasyourevidencethismorning?

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.YourevidenceaccordingtoMrClarkis,"Ihelpedwith

19 theletter"?

20 A.No,Ididn'thelpwiththeletterbutIspoketoLucy

21 overthephoneabouttheletter.

22 Q.DoyouthinkMrClarkhasperhapswrittenitdownwrong?

23 A.Idon'tknow.

24 Q.Didyouexplaintohimwhatyouexplainedto

25 hisLordship,thatwhatactuallyhappenedwasLucy

75

1 draftedtheletter‐‐accordingtoLucy‐‐andphoned

2 youupandsaid,"Willyousignit?"Didyouexplain

3 thattohim?

4 A.No,again,Ihaveonlyansweredquestionsthathehas

5 askedme.

6 Q.Okay.Hethenquotestoyousomepartstheletter:

7 "FatimaandJasweregivenpreferentialtreatment...

8 She[SB]hasreallysplittheteaminthestore...We

9 sawarealdivideintheteamthoughwhenFatimaandJas

10 startedworkingthere,thisreallysplittheteam.SB

11 tooksideswiththemandtherewasarealthemagainst

12 usattitude..."

13 Doyouseethat?

14 A.Hm‐mm.

15 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Theyarenotallquotesfromtheletter,

16 MrStuart.

17 MRSTUART:Iknow.Iknow,myLord.

18 Doyouseethat?

19 A.Hm‐mm.

20 Q.Doyouknowwhatletterhewasreferringto?Didyou

21 signanotherletter?

22 A.No.

23 Q.No?

24 A.Idon'tbelieveIsignedanotherletter.

25 Q.Sowhenhereadthisquotetoyoufromaletterwhich

76

1 youhadconfirmedyousignedandwashappyandhelped

2 with,andhereadyououtawholeloadofquotesfrom

3 aletterthatyouhadn'tsignedand/orthatyoudidn't

4 knowanythingabout,youmusthavesaid,"That'safunny

5 thingforyoutosay,David.Idon'tknowwhatyouare

6 talkingabout."

7 Didyousaythattohim,MrsTidmass?

8 A.Sorry,Iwasreading‐‐isthisnot...(Pause)

9 Butthatquotethere,isthatnottakenfromwhat

10 somebodyelsehassaid?

11 Q.It'snottakenfromtheletter,isit?Hisquestion

12 says:

13 "Canyouexpanduponacoupleofparagraphsfromthe

14 letterandtellmewhatyouactuallywitnessed.

15 "Quote:'FatimaandJasweregivenpreferential

16 treatmentbySB...She[SB]hasreallysplittheteamin

17 thestorethoughandherunprofessionalconducthas

18 ruinedtheteam'and'Wesawarealdivideintheteam

19 thoughwhenFatimaandJasstartedworkingthere,this

20 reallysplittheteam.SBtooksideswiththemand

21 therewasarealthemagainstusattitude...Thelevel

22 ofsupportshe[SB]gavetoFatimaandJaswasmuchmore

23 thansheevergavetoanyofthelongerservingstaff'."

24 Youranswerissaidtobe:

25 "YesI'vewitnessedthat."



77

1 A.Iwitnessedthatquote.2 Q.Youwitnessedthatquote?What'shequotingfrom,3 MrsTidmass?4 A.Idon'tknow,thisiswhatI'msaying.It'sobviously5 notintheletterthatIhavesigned,isit,becausewe6 havegonebackoverthat.7 Q.Iknow.Whatwashequotingfrom?8 A.Idon'tknow.9 Q.Youdon'tevenknowwhathewasquotingfrom?

10 A.HeisaskingaquestionwhichIhaveansweredto:11 "yes,I'vewitnessedthat."12 Q.Justbelowthenextholepunchhesays:13 "DCQuote..."14 Anotherquoteandheputsquotationmarksaroundit:15 "'IfyousortoftakeKS'ssideofanyargumentshe16 [SB]willcutyouoffdead.Ifeelveryintimidatedby17 SBandifImakeamistakeshewilltellyouoffin18 frontofcustomersandmakeyoufeelstupid.She[SB]19 letseveryoneknowintheteamwhenpeoplemakes20 mistakes'and'SBwillpubliclyembarrassyouonthe21 shopflooranddiscusserrorsyouhavemade."22 Whatwashequotingfrom?23 A.Idon'tknow.24 Q.Doyourecallthisinterviewatall?25 A.Yes,Ido.

78

1 Q.Okay.Whatdidyouunderstandwasthenatureofthe2 interview?3 A.Regardinghowwefeltunhappyatthestore.4 Q.Okay.Soitwasn'tabouttheletteryousigned?5 A.Well,thesequotesaren'tfromtheletterthatIsigned.6 Q.No,I'maskingwhethertheinterviewwasaboutthe7 letterthatyousigned.Perhapsheledyoutobelieve8 thattheletterdidcontaintheseparagraphs,9 MrsTidmass?

10 A.No,becauseIsignedtheletterandIknowwhat's11 writtenontheletter.12 Q.Doyou?13 A.Yes,Ido,becauseIhadtheconversationwithLucyover14 thephoneandshereadmetheletterandIagreedwith15 whatshesaid.16 Q.Butyouhavetoldthecourtthatmostofwhat'sinthe17 letter‐‐Itookyouthrougheveryrelevantsentence‐‐18 isn'tactuallyyourexperienceatall?19 A.No,andIhavesaidbefore,Ipersonallydidn'thaveany20 issueswithSwarandeep,apartfromwhatIhaveput.21 Q.Soallofthisthatheisquotingfrom,whichisnotthe22 letter,it'snothingtodowithyou,isit?23 A.No,thereisnothingintherethatmentionsme,no.24 Q.Okay.Overon3188{E/971/3188}heisquoting,25 obviously,somethingelse:

79

1 "Quote:'WhenIwaspregnant,SBwasquiterudeto2 meandsaidthebabywasaparasiteandwaslivingoff3 me.ThisupsetmeasIhadpreviouslyhad4 amiscarriage."5 A.Hm‐mm.6 Q.Youranswer:7 "Iwasn'tinthestorethatday."8 Doyouseethat?9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Andthenhequotesabout:11 "Quote:'WithLorraineinthepastSBwroteamemo12 andputonthere"shewasbeingfraudulentinher13 completionoftheNHS".Lorrainewasn'tdoingafraud,14 itwasjustamistake,youshouldn'ttreatorspeakto15 stafflikethat'."16 Andyouranswerwas:17 "Lorrainewrotetoheadofficeandthenleftshortly18 afterwards.ShewasveryangrythoughIdidn'tseethe19 memoorheartheconversation."20 A.No.21 Q.SoyouwerebasicallydenyingtoMrClarkthatyouhad22 anyknowledgeofthis?23 A.Yes,becauseIclearlywasn'tinstorethatday.24 Q.Thenhequotessomethingelseaboutproblemwith25 clinics,etcetera.Iwon'treadthewholequoteout,

80

1 itgoesonandon.Youranswerwas:

2 "Itwasonmydayoff,Iheardaboutitthenext

3 day..."

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.Andthenhequotesagain:

6 "'SBdidaneyetestonmeandtoldmemylefteye

7 was"crap"andthensaid"sorrydidIsaythatout

8 loud".Iwasapatientatthispoint..."

9 Yourresponsewas:

10 "IknowaboutitbutIdidn'tactuallyhearit.

11 "Question:Anythingelse?

12 "Answer:Nothingelse."

13 Sothatwasthesumtotalofthatinterview.Is

14 thatright?

15 A.Hm‐mm.

16 Q.DidMrClarkaskyouabouttheletter,thecircumstances

17 ofcreatingtheletter,thecircumstancesofsigningthe

18 letter?

19 A.No.

20 Q.No.DidheaskyouaboutKamSinghandthefactthat

21 KamSinghhadspokentothestaffafterbeingsuspended?

22 A.No.

23 MRSTUART:MyLord,Ihavegotnomorequestionsfor

24 MrsTidmass.

25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Ihaveonequestion,MrsTidmass.On



81

1 page3188,yourefertoLorraine?

2 A.Yes.

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Iamstillabeingconfused‐‐

4 A.That'sLarraine,sorry.

5 MRJUSTICENUGEE:That'sLarraine?It'snot

6 LorraineFrondigoun?

7 A.No,sorry,thatoneis,yes,todowiththeNHS.Yes,

8 itis.

9 MRJUSTICENUGEE:That'sLorraineFrondigoun?

10 A.Yes,itis,LorraineFrondigoun,yes.

11 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuch.

12 MrPotts?

13 MRPOTTS:No,myLord.

14 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuchforcoming.

15 MRSTUART:Coulditbemadeclear,MrsTidmassisnow

16 released.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Youarenowreleased,youdon'thaveto

18 stay.Youareperfectlywelcometostayifyouwantto,

19 becauseit'sapubliccourt,butifyouhavegotother

20 thingstodo,wewillallunderstand.

21 Thankyouverymuch.

22 MRSTUART:CouldwehaveLucyHornby.

23 MSLUCYHORNBY(affirmed)


25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Do,please,sitdown.IsitMsHornbyor

82

1 MrsHornby?

2 A.Mrs.

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrsHornby?

4 A.Yes.


6 MRSTUART:MrsHornby,ifyoucouldhavebundleE11out.

7 A.Yes.

8 Q.CanIjustgetonethingoutofthewayveryquickly?

9 DidMsBirdidriveyoutothehospitalontheoccasion

10 ofyour‐‐

11 A.Sir,that'stwoseparateoccasions.Ihadamiscarriage

12 in2004.Iwas‐‐itwasaSaturdayandthestorewas

13 verybusy.IphonedSheila.Iwenttothetoilet‐‐

14 youdon'tneedtoknowallthisbutIwenttothe

15 toilet.Somethinghadhappened.IphonedSheilato

16 comeuptome.Sheilastayedwithmeandthen‐‐

17 Swarandeepwasprobablytesting.Shecameupstairsand

18 Sheilasaid,"Iwilldriveyoutothehospital".

19 Swarandeepsaidthatwecouldn'thavetwomembersofthe

20 teamoutofthebusiness,suggestedIgetacab,which

21 Idid,onmyown,tothehospital.

22 Therewasaseparateoccasionin2009whenIwas

23 pregnantwithmydaughterthatIactuallyhad.Iagain

24 hadcomplications,atworkagain,andSwarandeepdid

25 drivemetothehospitalonthatoccasion,sir.

83

1 Q.Okay.Fine.2 A.Twoseparateincidents.3 Q.Let'sgotothisletter,soinE11/3009.{E/935.1/3009}4 Doyouhaveit?5 A.Yes,sir.6 Q.Doyourecalltypingthisletter?7 A.Yes,sir.8 Q.Wherewereyouwhenyoutypeditup?9 A.Iwasatwork.

10 Q.Whichcomputerdidyoudoiton?11 A.Thefrontdesk,sir.12 Q.Doyourecallwhatdayitwas;whatdate?13 A.Erm‐‐14 Q.It'sdated16Junebutwouldthatbe‐‐15 A.Idon'tknowwhatday.16 Q.‐‐shortlybeforeorafterorthedateyouactually‐‐17 A.Iwouldhavedateditthatdate,Iwouldn'thavedated18 itadifferentdate,butIdon'tknowwhatdayofthe19 weekthatwas.20 Q.Nottheday,Imeantthedate.21 A.Sorry,yes.22 Q.Soyoutypedthison16June?23 A.Yes.Idon'trememberthedaybutitwasobviously24 adaythatIwasinstore.25 Q.Yes.Whenyoutypedit,youwroteinthethird

84

1 paragraph,thelastwordyouhad,"unnecessary".

2 A.Hm‐mm.

3 Q.Someonehasputtwolinesthroughthatword?

4 A.Thatwasme.

5 Q.Thatwasyou.Whendidyoudothat?

6 A.OnthedayIsubmittedit,Ibelieve.

7 Q.Sowhatdaydidyousubmitit?

8 A.Thesameday,sir.

9 Q.Whodidyousubmititto?

10 A.SwarandeepandKamwerebothoutofthebusiness;they

11 hadalreadybeensuspended.

12 Q.Theyhad.

13 A.Wehadacaretaker,ifyouwill.HisnamewasDan;

14 Idon'trememberhissurname.HewasfromSpecsavers

15 andIhadactuallyspokentohiminthemorningandsaid

16 tohim‐‐ithadbeenaverydifficulttimeinthestore

17 andIhadsaidtohimthatwe'dbeendiscussingitand

18 wewantedtoconstructaletterandhesaidtomethat

19 I'mfreelyabletodothatandifIdidwriteit,

20 Icouldgiveittohim,whichIdid.Thatwasit.

21 Q.That'sDanielLaing,Ithink.Weseehisnameonthe

22 previouspage,3008?{E/935/3008}

23 A.Yes,I'msorry,Idon'tknowhissurname.

24 Q.That'sallright.Doesthatjogyourrecollection?

25 A.Yes,that'shim.



85

1 Q.DanielLaing?

2 A.Yes.

3 Q.Hewasintemporarychargeatthestore?

4 A.Yes,hecovereduntil,Ibelieve,Kamcameback.

5 Q.Right.WhendidyouspeaktoMrLaingaboutwantingto

6 writealetter?

7 A.Onthatday.

8 Q.Soon16June,onthedayyoudraftedit?

9 A.Yes,becauseIwasn'tsureofprocedure,tobeperfectly

10 honest.

11 Q.Soyougointoseehimthatmorningandyouaskhim

12 what?Didyousaysomethinglike,"Wewanttowrite

13 aletter,what'stheprocedure?"

14 A.WhatIsaidtohimIdon'trememberfully,Iapologise,

15 but‐‐

16 Q.That'sallright.

17 A.ItwasjustthatIsaidtohimthatanumberofstaff

18 havespokentomeaboutfeelingupsetaboutthe

19 situation‐‐itwasaverydifficultsituationinstore.

20 Obviously,itpreviouslyhappenedwithNimandthenit

21 happenedagainthatwewereinaverydifficulttime.

22 AndIsaidtohim,"Whatdowedo?"andhesaid,"You

23 arefullyabletovoiceyourconcernsifyouwantto",

24 andIsaid,"IfIwritealetter,isthatallowed?"

25 BecauseobviouslyIdidn'tunderstand.Iunderstand

86

1 procedurefarbetternow.SoIwrotealetter.2 Q.Whatdidhesay?3 A.Whatdidhesay?4 Q.Yes.5 A.Hesaidtomethat‐‐well,Isaidtohim,"Ifyouhave6 gotanissuethatyouwishtoraise,whatdoyoudo?"7 andhesaidyoucanwritealetter,youcanmake8 atelephonecall,youknow,there'sanumberofways.9 Hesaidpeoplehavesentfaxesbeforetoheadoffice;

10 youknow.11 Q.Right.Thatwasinthemorningofthe16th,wasit?12 A.Yes,Ibelievewewerecashingup,actually.Iwas13 cashingupinfrontofhim.Itwasadiscussion.14 Q.Cashingup,what,inthemorning?15 A.Yes,youcashupthepreviousday'stakings.Youhave16 todoitthefollowingday.17 Q.Sothisisbeforetheshopopens?18 A.No,no,wedoitduringtheshop‐‐wenormallydoit19 earlymorning,likenine‐ish.Wewaitforthestoreto20 open.Wecashupthepreviousday.21 Q.Okay.Sothendidyouhaveadiscussionwithyour22 fellowstaffmembersthatday?23 A.Ihadalreadyspokentotheteam.24 Q.Whoistheteam,justsoweknow?25 A.Well,everybody,everybody,sir.Itwouldhavebeen

87

1 Gladstone,Larraine,therewasAlexinthelabstill,2 Ibelieve,Helen,Steve,Ruth,Ithink,obviously,3 Darshan.IthinkPatricecouldhavebeenthere‐‐4 Idon'trememberwhensheleft.Butwealldiscussed5 it,notjust‐‐Ididn'tjustwakeupandthink,"I'm6 goingtowritealettertoday."7 Q.No.8 A.Itwasaseriesofeventsthathadhappenedoveralong9 periodoftime.Ifeltthatwehadtohaveavoice.

10 Becausewehadn'thadavoice;itseemedthatallthese11 changeswerehappeninginthestore,ourdirectorshad12 gone,andwehadno‐‐noonewasexplainingtouswhat13 wasgoingon.14 Q.Yousaidalongperiodoftime.15 A.Hm‐mm.16 Q.Youhadonlylostyourdirectorson8June?17 A.No,butincidentshadbeenhappeninginstorefromthe18 verybeginningofKamstartinginstore.19 Q.Yes.Butwhatweretheincidentsthatcausedyouto20 writethisletter,theseincidentsoveralongperiodof21 timethatcausedyoutowritethisletter?22 A.ForTraceyandSteve‐‐ImeanIcan'tspeakforthem,23 soI'mjustgivingyoumyopinion‐‐wasthatitwasthe24 issueofFatimacomingbackintothestore.25 Q.Right.Sowhendidyouknowaboutthat?

88

1 A.FromwhatIremember,shegaveinhernoticebutshe2 didn'tactuallyworkhernotice.Ibelievesheleft3 almostinstantaneously.Shecameuptomeandsaidthat4 shehadhandedinherresignationand,youknow‐‐5 Idon'tknow,"Mylastdayistoday,"or,"Mylastday6 isittomorrow,"Ican'trememberexactly,because7 Ibelieveshehadanewjob.Soshetoldmethat.8 Q.Yes.9 A.Hm‐mm.

10 Q.Butyouweretalkingabouthercomingback?11 A.Yes.12 Q.Sowhendidyouknowabouthercomingback?13 A.IwastoldbySteveorTracey.Oneofthemtoldme.14 Q.When?15 A.Idonotremember,tobeperfectlyhonest.Itwould16 havebeenaroundthistime.Idon'trememberwhen‐‐17 Idon'trememberdates.18 Q.Itmusthavebeenaroundthistimebecauseifyougo19 backtopage2939{E/910.1/2939},at10.23atnight‐‐20 A.2939?21 Q.2939.At10.23atnighton27Maysheisraising22 agrievance,isn'tshe?23 A.ThisisFatima'sgrievance?24 Q.ThisisFatima'sgrievance.25 A.Okay.



89

1 Q.Doyouseeit?2 A.Hm‐mm.3 Q.Wereyouawarethatshehadraisedagrievance?4 A.Yes.5 Q.Wereyouawarethatshewasresigning?6 A.Yes,shetoldme.7 Q.Okay.Andonceshehadresigned‐‐8 A.Hm‐mm.9 Q.‐‐yousayyouweretoldbySteveorTracey?

10 A.Yes,Ican'trememberwhich.11 Q.Youcan'trememberwho‐‐thatshewascomingback?12 A.Thatshewantedtocomeback,yes,andthat‐‐well,as13 farasIwasaware,shewascomingback.Idon'tknow14 whathadhappenedwithherjob.15 Q.AndwhatdidSteveorTraceysaytoyouaboutthe16 circumstancesofhercomingback?17 A.Thattheydidn'twantherbackinthestore,theyhadn't18 hadagoodrelationshipwithherandthattheywerevery19 strongintheirfeelingsthattheydidn'twantto.Many20 ofusfeltitwasdifficulttoworkwithFatima.She21 wasaverystrongcharacter,andobviouslyalotofus22 hadalotofopticalexperienceandshedidundermine23 thatanlot,andIthinkshewasdifficulttoworkwith.24 SoSteveandTraceyadvisedmethattheyknewshewas25 goingtobecomingback.

90

1 Q.Andwheredidtheysaythattheyhadgotthat

2 informationfrom?

3 A.Idon'trememberthattheytoldmethat.

4 Q.Wasitsuggestedthattheyhadgotthatinformationfrom

5 Swarandeep?

6 A.IknowtheyspoketoSwarandeepabouttheirobjections

7 toitbutIcannotsaythatitwasfromSwarandeep.

8 Idon'tknow.Idon'tremember.

9 Q.Okay.AnddidtheysaythattheyhadspokentoKam

10 aboutit?

11 A.No,justSwarandeep.IbelieveTraceywantedtohave

12 theconversationwithSwarandeepbutSteveaccompanied

13 orviceversa,andtheydidhaveaconversationwithher

14 aboutit,Ibelieve.

15 Q.Okay.Youpersonallyweren'tpartytoanyconversation

16 thenaboutFatimacomingback?

17 A.No.

18 Q.Howwereyouabletowritetheletterandinsertall

19 theseallegationsonthe16th‐‐

20 A.Hm‐mm.

21 Q.‐‐withoutyoupersonallybeinginvolvedinsomeofthe

22 allegations?

23 A.BecauseTraceyassistedmeinwritingtheletter.

24 TraceywasstandingnexttomewhileIwaswritingthe

25 letter.Webothhadinput.YesItypedit.Ityped

91

1 it,Iprintedit,Ifullytakeresponsibilityforthat2 andforthefactthatIwrotetheletter,butitwas3 acombinationofinformationfrommyself,Tracey,4 Steve'sfeelings,Darshan'sfeelings.IphonedHelen,5 asshehasrightlysaid.Isaidtoher,"Thisisthe6 letterI'mwriting.Doyouwanttoaddanythingtoit?7 No,everyonehadanopportunity.8 Q.Shesaidwhatwhenyousaid,"Doyouwanttoadd9 anything?"

10 A.Ithinkshesaid,"I'mhappywiththeletter."Idon't11 rememberexactlytheconversation.12 Q.Allright.Becausethewayyouhavewrittentheletter13 isthat,"We,"theemployeesthatyouhavetypedbelow,14 "aremakingtheseallegations."15 A.Wewereateam.Weweresupportingeachother.16 Q.AndyouweresupportingKam,weren'tyou?17 A.No.18 Q.Okay.Lookattheletterthen.{E/935.1/3009}Let's19 seewhetheryouaresupportingKam.20 A.Iseewhatyouaresayingbecauseitsays,"Wedon't21 wanttoloseKamasadirector,"butinnowaydidwe22 saywewantedtoloseSwarandeepasourdirector.23 Q.No:24 "AsateamwehavebeenaffectedbyKamnotbeingin25 storetosupportusonandofftheshopfloor."

92

1 NomentionofbeingaffectedbySwarandeepnotbeing

2 inthestore.

3 A.Shewasinthetestroom,tobeperfectlyhonest,so

4 Swarandeep,whenwedidsee‐‐shehadafewadmindays

5 butshewasmainlyinthetestroom.Soour‐‐onthe

6 ‐‐Idon'tknowwhatyoucallit.

7 Q.Theshopfloor?

8 A.Theshopfloormanager,sorry,wasKam,andsohewas

9 apersonwhowasthereeverydayasoursupport.

10 Q.YouwereKam'steamreally,weren'tyou?

11 A.No,IhaveworkedwithSwarandeepsince2001,Ihave

12 workedwithher.AndNimaswell.

13 Q.Ididn'tsayyoudidn'tworkwithher;Isaidyouwere

14 Kam'steam.

15 A.No,weworkedforSwarandeepandKam.Itwasn't

16 anybody'steam.Youmaydisagree.

17 Q.Okay.Butyoudon'tmentioninthesecondparagraph

18 beingaffectedbySwarandeepnotbeinginthestore.

19 A.AgainKamwasincharge.Wehadnomanager.Wedidn't

20 haveasupervisoratthatpoint.Ruthwasin

21 asupervisorypositionbutIdon'tbelieveshewas

22 actuallysupervised.Sowehadnolead.Wehadnobody

23 untilDancameinbuteventhenhewasn't...

24 Q.Nextsentence:

25 "Wedon'twanttoloseKam..."



93

1 Youobviouslythoughtthattherewasariskof2 losingKam?3 A.Ithought,becauseofthefact‐‐myopinion‐‐Ican't4 speakforanybodyelse,butmyopinionwasthat,because5 IknewthathehadhadgrievancesraisedbyJohnKo,6 Kevin,JasandFatima,thatwhywouldyoucontinueto7 workthere.Iassumedthathejustwouldn'tcomeback.8 That'smyopinion.Idon'tknowthatasfact.9 Q.Youknewabouttheseriousnessoftheallegations

10 againsthimfromJas?11 A.Jasherselftoldmethat.12 Q.Yes.Soyoupresumablyknewthatiftheywerefoundto13 beproven,thathewassexuallyharassingjuniorstaff14 inthewayshealleged,hewaslikelytobeleaving,15 wasn'the?16 A.Idon'tknow,Idon'tknow.Again,myknowledgeof17 disciplinaryatthattime‐‐Ican'tspeakforwhether18 itwouldorwouldn'thavedone.Iappreciateit's19 aseriousallegationbutitwasfoundtobefalse.20 Q."Wedon'twanttoloseKam."21 Youdon'tsay,"Wedon'twanttoloseKamand22 Swarandeep."23 A.No.24 Q.Youdon'tseemtobesupportingSwarandeephere‐‐25 A.No?

94

1 Q.‐‐inthispartoftheletter?2 A.No,Iappreciatethat.3 Q.Andthenyougoon:4 "WehavefeltostracisedbySwarandeep..."5 It'sacriticismofSwarandeep,isn'tit?6 A.Yes.7 Q.Let'snotkeepsayingthatthisisaletteraimedat8 supportingthetwoofthem.ThiswastosupportKam.9 A.No,no,Ididn'tsaythatthisletterwasaimedat

10 supportingthetwoofthem.WhatImeantwasthatit11 wasn'tonewayortheother.Iappreciateyouaregoing12 todifferfromwhatI'msaying.13 Q.Iwasn'tonewayortheother?Areyouseriously14 tellinghisLordship,"Wedon'twanttoloseKam,"‐‐15 A.Yes.16 Q.‐‐"WeareveryaffectedbyKam","hehassupportedus17 somuch","WehavefeltostracisedbySwarandeep",the18 verynextsentence?19 A.Yes.20 Q.Youaresayingthatisnotyou,thestaffinhisteam‐‐21 thatisnotyoudifferentiatingbetweenthetwoofthem?22 A.No,Iappreciatewhatyouaresaying.Butthefactis23 ifSwarandeephadwalkedbackinasourdirector,24 Iwouldhavehadrespectforherbecauseshewasmy25 superior,myleader.

95

1 Q.Ididn'taskyouthat.

2 A.Iknowyoudidn'taskmethat.

3 Q.Iwasaskingyouaboutthetoneofyourletterandthe

4 contentofyourletterandwhyyouhavechosentowrite

5 thisletter:

6 "WehavefeltostracisedbySwarandeep..."

7 Whatdoyoumeanby"ostracised"?

8 A.Wefeltthattherewasaseparationintheteamandthat

9 Swarandeep'srelationshipwithJasandFatimawasclose

10 andthatitwasadivideintheteambecausewefelt

11 thatpreferencewasgiventoJasandFatimaand

12 Swarandeep'stime,whenshewasontheshopfloor,would

13 havebeenwithJasandFatima.Theywouldhavebeen

14 talkingtoherandnottotherestoftheteam.There

15 wasadivide.

16 Q.Butshewasinthetestingroom;shewasn'tontheshop

17 floor.

18 A.Noteverydayshewasn'tinthetestingroom.Ibelieve

19 shetestedthreeorfourdaysaweek.

20 Q.Shetendedtobeinthetestingroomratherthanonthe

21 shopfloor?

22 A.Yes,Iappreciatethat.

23 Q."OstracisedbySwarandeep".What,becauseshewas

24 talkingtoJasandFatimaandyoulotwerenot?

25 A.No,becausehertendencywastospeaktothem,tohave

96

1 conversationswiththemandnotwiththerestofus.2 Q.PerhapstheywereraisinggrievancesaboutKamSingh3 withherasthedirectorofthestoreandshehadto4 speaktothemaboutthem?5 A.Idon'tdoubtthat,sir,butthatwasmyopinionatthe6 timewhenIwrotethisletterandit'smyopiniontoday7 inreferencetothattime.8 Q."...shehasgiventhempreferentialtreatment."9 That'sacriticismofSwarandeep,isn'tit?It's

10 intendedasacriticismofher?11 A.Itwasastatementoffact,ofthefactthatJasand12 Fatimacouldcomeandgoastheypleasedandwere13 allowedtodosowithSwarandeep'spermissionandthe14 restofushadnotinthepastbeenallowedtocomein15 early‐‐comeinlate,sorry,orleaveearly.16 Irememberonanumberof,well,atleasttwo17 occasions‐‐IappreciateIworkedwithJasforasmall18 amountoftime,butshewasallowedtoleaveearlyon19 aSaturday.20 Q.Noneofthisisintheletter,isit?21 A.No,butitwas‐‐youknow,Icouldhave‐‐wecould've22 writtenaten‐pageletter.Itwasabriefletter.23 Q.Whatyoudidputinyourletter,whichperhapsgivesan24 indicationofwhatwasthepurposeoftheletter,is:25 "Wehavebeendistressedbythegrievancestheyhave



97

1 broughtintheirshorttimeinthestore..."2 YoumustbereferringonlytoJasandFatimathere?3 A.Yes.4 Q.Becausetheyarethepeoplewhohavebeenashorttime5 inthestore?6 A.Buttheycausedastorminthetimethattheywere7 there.8 Q.Yes.Soyouweredistressedbytheirgrievances.9 That'swhatitsays?

10 A.Yes,by‐‐yes.11 Q.Now,weheardfromMrsTidmassthatshewasn't12 distressedbytheirgrievances?13 A.Yes.14 Q.Shedidn'tevenknowabouttheirgrievances.15 A.No.16 Q.Areyousayingyoupersonallyweredistressedbytheir17 grievances?18 A.Theeffectithadontheteam.Somaybemyphrasingof19 thewordsinthisletterisn'tperfect,butwewere20 distressedbytheproblemsitcausedinstore.It21 causedamassivedivide.Theywereveryvocalabout22 theirgrievances,veryvocal.23 Q.Thegrievanceswearetalkingabout,letmejustgetit24 quiteclear.Page2864,{E/892.1/2864}29April2010.25 Jasmakesagrievance,withFatimajustasupporting

98

1 personatthemeeting,okay?SothisisjustJas's2 grievance.Ithinkyouwereincourtthismorningwhen3 Ireadallthisout‐‐4 A.Yes,sir.5 Q.‐‐toMrsTidmasssoIwon'treaditalloutagain,but6 insummary,it'ssomeseriousallegationsofsexual7 harassmentagainstKamSingh?8 A.Yes,Iunderstand.9 Q.Byajuniorfemalememberofstaff?

10 A.Hm‐mm.11 Q.Whofeelsthatsheisbeingstalked,sheisbeing12 touchedimproperlyandthatheismakinginappropriate13 commentstoher.That'sasummaryofit?14 A.Yes,Iunderstanditfromhearingitthismorning.15 Q.Sothat'sthefirstgrievancefromJas.Wereyouaware16 ofthenatureofJas'sgrievance?17 A.Yes,becauseJasherselftoldittome.Itwason18 aSunday,Idorecallthat,becausetherewasthree19 membersofstaffonaSunday,andshetoldme.Ihadn't20 askedtohearaboutit.21 Q.Didshespeaktoyouaboutitaftershehadraisedthe22 grievancewithSwarandeep,orbefore?Wecanseethis23 isdated29April.24 A.Icannotbe100percentbutIbelievethatitwould25 havebeenjustbeforeshehadthemeetingbecausethe

99

1 meetingtookplace,Iassume,sometimeafter.Itwould

2 havebeeninthetimebetween,Iassume,this,which

3 Iobviouslyhaven'tseenuntilnow.

4 Q.Right.

5 A.Andactually,theactualgrievancehearing.

6 Q.Sothemeetingyouaretalkingaboutisthemeeting

7 wherehergrievancewasinvestigated?

8 A.Yes,itwouldhavebeeninbetweentheresomewhere.

9 Q.WhereSpecsaversinvestigatedhergrievance?

10 A.Yes,itwasSpecsavers,yes.

11 Q.Okay,fine.Didshesaytoyouthatshewasgoingtobe

12 makingagrievance,orthatshehadmadeagrievance?

13 A.No,thatshehadalreadymadeagrievance.

14 Q.Okay.Didshegiveyouthedetailsofwhatshewas

15 allegingagainstKam?

16 A.Whatsheactuallysaidtomediffersfromthisletter.

17 Icantellyouwhatshesaid,whichwasthatshesaid

18 thatsheandKamhadcashedupaloneandthatwhenthey

19 hadgoneto‐‐twoofyouhadtobringthemoneyupto

20 thesafe,andthatwhentheyhadgonetobringthemoney

21 upstairs,hehadtouchedherinappropriately,iswhat

22 shetoldme.Soobviously,Iappreciatethisisfar

23 moredetailed.

24 Q.Okay.WhenyouheardthataboutKamfromher,didyou

25 reportthattoSwarandeep?Didyousay,"Look,

100

1 Swarandeep‐‐"

2 A.No,becauseSwarandeepwasalreadyawarebecausethe

3 grievance‐‐IknewthatSwarandeepwasalreadyawareof

4 that.

5 Q.FatimatoldyouthatSwarandeep‐‐

6 A.Jastoldme.

7 Q.Sorry,JastoldyouthatJashadmadethisgrievanceto

8 SwarandeepaboutKam?

9 A.Yes,Ialreadyknewthat,yes.

10 Q.Fine.Ifyougooninthebundleto2926,

11 {E/904.1/2926}bythe23May,Jas'scomplainteitherhas

12 been,orisabouttobe,followedbyonefromFatima.

13 Doyousee,thisisaletterfromKam?

14 A.Okay.

15 Q.ToAlisonGirolletatSOGinGuernsey?

16 A.Yes.

17 Q."Asyouareawaretwomembersofstaff[JasandFatima]

18 haveconfirmedtheirintentiontomakeformalcomplaints

19 againstme."

20 Doyouseethat?

21 A.Hm‐mm.

22 Q.By23May,wereyouawarefromsomebodythatFatimawas

23 makingacomplaint?

24 A.Fatimatoldmethatshewasmakingacomplaintbut

25 Icannottellyouwhenshesaidthattome,but



101

1 obviouslyitwouldhavebeen‐‐Iknowthatshesaidto

2 methatwastodowithherprobationbeingextendedand

3 shefeltthatwasn'tnecessary.Whatever‐‐itwouldbe

4 unfair.Butshetoldmethatshe,again‐‐theywere

5 vocalabouttheir‐‐everything.

6 Q.Right.Fatima'scomplaint,asyouunderstooditto

7 be‐‐

8 A.Fromher,yes.

9 Q.Fromher.Whatwasthenatureofthecomplaint?

10 A.Aboutherprobationbeingextended.

11 Q.Yes?

12 A.Because‐‐obviously,theybeganwhenIwasonmaternity

13 leave.Ireturned,IbelieveinMay2010.Ibelieveit

14 wasthen.Again,Idon'trememberexactly.Iknowit

15 wasaroundabouttheendofApril/beginningofMay

16 Ireturned.SoIcan'trememberwhentheystartedbut

17 IknowthatFatima'sthreemonthswascomingupand

18 therewasadecisiontoextendprobation,whichshewas

19 unhappyaboutandthereforemadeacomplaint.

20 Q.Soyouhadn'tactuallybeenworkinginthestore,

21 becauseyouhadbeenonmaternityleave?

22 A.Iworkedwithherfrom‐‐IdobelieveIcamebackat

23 thebeginningofMay‐‐endofApril/beginningofMay.

24 Q.That'sright.Soyouactuallyonlyworkedwithheron

25 afewoccasions;withherandSwarandeeptogether,you

102

1 personallywereonlyinthestoreonthreeoccasions.

2 Wouldthatbefair?

3 A.Ithinkmorethanthat.Ididusedtocomeinadhoc.

4 Solikewhen,iftheywereshortandtheyphonedmeto

5 cover,Iwouldcomeinandcover.IknowIdefinitely

6 workedSaturdayandSundaywhenIreturnedfrom

7 maternityleave,butIcan'ttellyouwithcertainty

8 otherdaysIworked,butitwasdefinitelySaturdayand

9 Sunday,because,likeIsay,JasandIhad

10 aconversationontheSunday.ItwasmeandJasand

11 Ican'tremembertheothermemberofstaff.

12 Q.Okay.Page2927.{E/905/2927}Fatimaresigns,27May.

13 Wereyouawareonthatdateor‐‐Ithinkyourevidence

14 isthatitwasthedayshehandedinherresignation

15 thatshetoldyoushewasresigning.Isthatright?

16 A.Yes,becauseIdefinitelyworkedwithheronthatday.

17 Q.Yes.Thisletteractuallysaid:

18 "Mylastworkingdaywillbe2June."

19 A.Oh,okay.

20 Q.Doyouseethat?

21 A.Yes,no‐‐yes.

22 Q.Isitpossibleshetoldyouthatshehadresignedand

23 thatthiswasherlastworkingonday,on2June?

24 Perhapsyouhadtheconversationon2June,herlast

25 workingday?

103

1 A.Possibly,I'mnotsureofthedate.

2 Q.Didshetellthatshehadresignedbecauseshewas

3 uncomfortableworkingwithKamSinghandRuthWotton?

4 A.No,shetoldmeshehadresignedbecauseshehadanother

5 job.Becauseshetravelledfar.Shetravelledfrom

6 somewhereinLondon.It'saverylongjourneyinto

7 Dartfordandshesaidthatthejourneywasoneofthe

8 reasons.Ibelieveshehasrecentlymarriedaswelland

9 herhusbandwasn'thappywiththejourneytoDartford.

10 Q.Butyouwereawarebythisdate,bythedateshe

11 resigned‐‐obviouslyyoudidn'tspeaktoherafterthe

12 datesheresigned?

13 A.No,no.

14 Q.Soyouwereawarebythistimeofhergrievanceagainst

15 KamSingh?

16 A.Yes,becausethatmusthavebeen‐‐thatwasbefore

17 that,wasn'tit;yes.

18 Q.ItwasinMay.

19 A.Hm‐mm.

20 Q.Sobythatstageyouknow‐‐by27Mayatthelatest,

21 probably,youknewofthetwogrievances,Jas'ssexual

22 harassment,Fatima'sfeelingostracised,orhowevershe

23 putit,againstKam.

24 A.Hm‐mm.

25 Q.Let'sgoontopage2939.{E/910.1/2939}Fatimasets

104

1 outawrittengrievance;doyouseethat?

2 A.Hm‐mm.

3 Q.AndsendsitoffonRiyazRajan.Wereyouawareof

4 that,thatshehadmadeaformalwrittengrievanceupto

5 RiyazRajanofSpecsavers?

6 A.No,well,theonlygrievanceI'mawareshemadewasin

7 regardstoherprobationbeingextended,butagain,

8 that'sfromher.

9 Q.Okay,butthisgrievanceisnotjustabouttheextension

10 ofherprobation‐‐

11 A.No,Iseethat.

12 Q.‐‐byanymeans,isit?

13 A.No,no,Iseethat.

14 Q.Betweenthetwoholepunches,thisisundertheheading,

15 "13May":

16 "HealsostartedtogivemeandJasDirtyLooks."

17 Doyouseeallofthat?

18 A.Hm‐mm.

19 Q.Insummary,whatsheissaying‐‐andyouwillseeitat

20 theend‐‐isthatsheisbeingmadetofeelvery

21 uncomfortablebyMrSingh;yes?

22 A.Hm‐mm.

23 Q.Andveryupsetandvery‐‐allright.

24 YouwereawareofKevin'sgrievance,Ithinkyou

25 havejusttoldus,page2943?



105

1 A.Yes,IwasawareofKevin'sgrievance.

2 Q.Okay.Andyouhavenocomplaintaboutthat?Inyour

3 letter,youdon'tmentionthefactthatKevinalso

4 raisedagrievanceagainstKam?

5 A.No,no,Ididn't.

6 Q.SoitwasjusttheJasandFatimagrievancesthatyou

7 wantedtoexpressyourdistressabout?

8 A.Well,probablyifI'dhavethoughtaboutit,Iwould

9 haveincludedKevin.Idon't‐‐Imean,thethingis

10 withKevin,hewasaninterestingcharacter.Youknow,

11 hewas‐‐well...

12 Q.Okay.Justgoingbacktoyourletterof3009:

13 {E/935.1/3009}


15 broughtintheirshorttimeinthestore..."

16 Whatwasyourpersonaldistressaboutthefactthat

17 theyhadraisedgrievances,one,thatshehadbeen

18 sexuallytouchedbyKam,whichiswhatyouthoughtthe

19 grievancewas,andtheother,thatshehadhad

20 detrimentaltreatmentmadeagainstherbyKambecauseof

21 hersupportforJas.ThatwastheFatimagrievance.

22 Whywereyouupsetthattheyhadraisedthose

23 grievances?

24 A.Iwasupsetbythedivideithadcausedinstore.So,

25 likeI‐‐youknow,I'mnotafantasticletterwriter,

106

1 obviously,butthefactofthematteristhatthe2 grievancescausedmassiveissues.Inmyunderstanding,3 ifyouraiseagrievance,itshouldn'tbediscussedwith4 otherpeople.Myawarenessisthatifyouraise5 agrievanceitshouldbeprivateandconfidential.6 Thesegrievanceswereveryfreelydiscussedbythem7 both.Itcauseduneaseintheteam.Wehadneverhad8 this,ashasbeenmentionedpreviously,before,where9 anythinglikethishadhappened.Andalso,thefact

10 theyweretalkingaboutit,itwasuncomfortable.It11 was‐‐itdidmakeusfeel,whateverthewordyouare12 saying‐‐Ican'tfindmyletter.13 Q.Distressed?14 A.Distressed,becauseit'snotnicetohear,whetheran15 allegationistrueorfalse,tohearthatanaccusation16 isbeingtothat‐‐aseriousaccusationof‐‐17 Iappreciateshewentintofarmoredetailinheractual18 grievance,butitwasaseriousaccusation.19 It'snotsomethingthatyouwanttohavediscussed,20 feelabout.Itwasveryuncomfortable,very21 uncomfortable,anddistressedme.22 Q.Doyouthinkit'snotrightforpeopletoraise23 grievanceswhentheyarebeingtouched‐‐24 A.No,ofcourseitis.25 Q.‐‐upbytheirboss?

107

1 A.No,no,no.Ofcourseitisabsolutelyproperfor

2 somebodytoraiseagrievance.I'mnotsayingit'snot.

3 ButI'mallowedafeelingabouthowIfeelaboutthe

4 discussionofitinthestore.

5 Q.Sowhowasdiscussingitinthestore?

6 A.JasandFatimawerediscussingtheirgrievances;they

7 bothdiscussedtheirgrievances.Jaswasveryopen

8 abouthergrievance.

9 Q.Discussingitwithyou,thepeopleontheshopfloor?

10 A.Yes,withus.

11 Q.AndwereyoudiscussingitwithKamaswell?

12 A.No,no,Iwasn'tdiscussingitwithanybody.Jaswas

13 discussingit,andIcertainlydidn'tdiscussitwith

14 anybody.Jaswasfreelytalkingtovariousmembersof

15 theteamaboutthegrievancebeingmade.Shewastrying

16 togetpeopletoalso‐‐Idon'tknow,togetontoher

17 side,Isuppose,tosupporther.Whateverwayyouwant

18 tophraseit.

19 Q.Okay.Butwhatyouactuallythengoontoallegein

20 thisletteris:

21 "...andwefeel..."

22 Weknownowthatthisdoesnotinclude

23 MrsTidmass‐‐

24 A.Yes,Iappreciatethat.

25 Q.‐‐shecompletelyrejectsanynotionofthis,but

108

1 anyway:2 "...andwefeelSwarandeephastakenabigpartin3 thembeingbroughttoheadoffice'sattention4 unnecessarily."5 Asyouinitiallydraftedit,atleast?6 A.Yes,butIthought"unnecessarily"wasimproperso7 Iremovedthat.ObviouslybeforeIhandeditin,8 Iscratcheditout.9 Q.Itwasimproper,wasn'tit,becausethereisnothing

10 unnecessaryaboutSwarandeep,astheopticaldirectorof11 Dartfordstore,reportingthefactthatthesetwojunior12 femalemembersofstaffweremakingseriousallegations13 againstKamSingh.Thereisnothingimproperabout14 that,isthere?15 A.No,no,Iappreciatethat.16 Q.No.Sowhyleaveinthe:17 "...wefeelSwarandeephastakenabigpartin18 thembeingbroughttoheadoffice'sattention."19 Whywouldyouleavethatin?20 A.BecausewhenIwrotetheletter,ifI'dhaverealised21 thatIwouldbehereincourtgivingevidence,Imaybe22 wouldhavewrittenabetterletterforyoutoread.23 But,thefactofthematteristhatIwrotealetteron24 theday,IwroteitwithTracey.25 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatyouwroteitlikethis



109

1 becausethepurposeofyourletterwastotrytoget2 Swarandeepintotroublewithheadofficeandwastotry3 tosupportKamSinghagainstSwarandeep.It'sclear,4 isn'tit?5 A.No.6 Q.Okay.Nextparagraph:7 "Weareawareshehasapproachedothermembersof8 ourteam..."9 "She",Ihavealwaysreadthatandunderstooditto

10 meanSwarandeep,butperhapsI'mreadingitwrongand11 thisisanotheroftheexamplesofyourbaddrafting.12 Didyoumean"she",Swarandeep,ordidyoumean"she",13 Jas?14 A.ImeantSwarandeepbecauseIknowthatshehadasked15 Larraineifshewantedtomakeagrievance.Ifshehad16 anyissues.17 Q.Sothat'sone.That'sLarraine,youaresaying?18 A.Larraine,yes.19 Q.Larraine.Wewillcomebacktothatinasecond.20 Sowhoaretheothermembersofourteamthatshe,21 Swarandeep,hasbeen‐‐22 A.Alexinthelab,aswell.23 Q.SheapproachedAlex?SheapproachedAlex?24 A.Alexwasaskedifshehadanyconcernsthatshewanted25 toraise.AlexandKevinworkedtogetherinthelab.

110

1 Q.Right:2 "Swarandeepisalwayscommentingonthisfact..."3 Thatisthefactthatthereisadifficult4 relationshipbetweenthem?5 A.Yes.6 Q.Isthistoyourknowledgeoristhisjustwhatyouhave7 heardfromotherpeople?8 A.No,no,weknewveryclearlythattherelationship‐‐9 well,therewasn'tarelationship.Theydidnotgeton.

10 Weknewthatanditwasvocalbetweenbothofthem.11 Q.KamSinghtoldyouthat?12 A.Swarandeeptoldmethat.13 Q.AndKamSingh?14 A.SwarandeepandKambothtoldusthat‐‐well,they15 didn'ttellus,no,I'msorry.Weknewthattherewas16 difficultiesbecauseofthefactthattherewasthis17 issuewiththememosgoingbackandforth:signthis18 memo;signthismemo;youcan'tsignthismemounless19 bothofushavesignedit;youhavetodiscountthat20 memo.Youknow,thedisagreements...21 Q.Thetwoofthem,KamandSwarandeep‐‐22 A.Nobodysaidtome,"Idon'tgetonwithher";"Idon't23 getonwithhim".24 Q.Neitherofthemsaidthat?25 A.No.

111

1 Q.Butbythewaythetwoofthemactedandtheissueabout

2 thememo,forexample,itwascleartoyou,fromthetwo

3 ofthem‐‐fromthetwoofthemitwascleartoyouthat

4 theirrelationshipwasadifficultone?

5 A.Itwasmademoredifficultbecausewithregardstothe

6 memowiththeframerepairs,forinstance,therewas

7 aframethatwasbrokenthatwasanon‐Specsaversframe

8 andtherewasamemoissuedthatyoucan'tdorepairs.

9 ThatwasissuedbyKam.Therewasacountermemoby

10 Swarandeepsaying,"Ignorethatmemo".

11 Q.That'sjustoneexample.Youarenotrelyingsolelyon

12 thatoneexample?

13 A.Okay,Icangiveyouanotherexample,sir,whichwas

14 thattherewasamemothatwasissued‐‐Swarandeep

15 askedmetosignandIwouldnotsign,whichwasthatwe

16 weren'ttoacknowledge,or‐‐acknowledge?‐‐memos

17 from‐‐thatwereissuedunlesstheyweresignedbyboth

18 directors.AndthereasonIrefusedtosignthatmemo

19 isbecauseIbelieveitwasonlysignedbySwarandeep

20 herself.

21 Q.Myquestionissimply:youwereawarefrombothofthem

22 thattheirrelationshipwasadifficultone?

23 A.Becauseoftheatmosphereinstore.

24 Q.Yes.

25 A.Butnotbecauseofsomeonesayingtome,"Idon'tlike

112

1 her";"Idon'tlikehim".

2 Q.Youhavemadeitclearinyourevidencetodayneitherof

3 themactuallysaidthattoyouoranybody,butfrom

4 theirbehaviourandthewaytheyspoketoeachotherand

5 thewaythattheywere,youwereawarethatthis

6 relationshipwasabrokenrelationship?

7 A.Iwasawareitwasabrokenrelationship.

8 Q.Andyet,allyouputintheletteristhat:

9 "Swarandeepisalwayscommentingonthisfact..."

10 YouhavejustconfirmedtohisLordshipthat

11 actually,shedidn'tsayanysuchthing,sothat's

12 alie.

13 A.It'snotalie.It's‐‐thefactisshedidn'tsayto

14 me,"Idon'tlikeKam",okay?Itwastheactionsin

15 store.Youtake‐‐youlistentothis,youdon'tlisten

16 tothis‐‐becausethememothatwasoriginallyissued

17 aboutrepairs,forinstance,thatwasissuedbyKam,it

18 wascounteredbyamemobySwarandeepsaying,"Don't

19 acknowledgethat.Youwilldorepairstosuitthe

20 customer'sneeds."

21 AndthentherewasamemoissuedfromSwarandeep

22 saying,"Youcan'tacknowledgeamemoifitisn'tsigned

23 bybothdirectors".

24 SowhereIhavewritteninthisletterhere‐‐

25 Ican'tevenfinditinhere.



113

1 Q.It'sbetweenthetwoholepunches.

2 A.Yes.

3 Q.I'mputtingtoyouthatyouaregivingusexamplesof

4 thetwoofthemandherissuingmemosandthingswhich

5 evidencedthefactthereisabrokenrelationship‐‐

6 A.ButIdidn'twritethisletteralone.

7 Q.‐‐butthat'snotwhatyouputhere.Inhere,yousaid:

8 "Swarandeepisalwayscommentingonthisfact..."

9 Thefactbeingthattheyhadabrokenrelationship.

10 AndyouhaveconfirmedtwiceinevidencetohisLordship

11 whenIaskedyouaboutitthatshedidnotsay‐‐

12 A.ButIdidnotwritethisletteralone.Youmust

13 understand,itwaswrittenbymyselfandTracey.

14 Itypedit,I'mresponsibleforthetypingofthe

15 letter,butwewroteit,weconstructedtheletter

16 together.

17 Q."Kamdoesnotinvolveusintheir'problems'..."

18 That'snottrue.Kaminvolvedyouintheproblem,

19 justasSwarandeepinvolvedyouintheproblems?

20 A.Kamdidn'tinvolveusintheproblems.Ifeelthat

21 beingaskedtosignamemo‐‐Swarandeeptookmeinto

22 hertestingroomandaskedmetosignamemothatsaid,

23 "Youmustn'tacknowledgeamemounlessit'ssignedby

24 bothdirectors".

25 IfeltpressuredthatIshouldhavetosignthat

114

1 memoandIactuallysaidno,because,youknow,itwas

2 notwhatIwantedtodo.

3 MRSTUART:MyLord,Iseethetime.Ihaven'tyetquite

4 finished.IcertainlyhavetodealwithMsHornby's

5 interview.Wouldthatbeaconvenientmoment?

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thatwouldbeaconvenientmoment.We

7 willtakeabreakuntil2o'clock.

8 MrsHornby,youhaveprobablyheardmesaythisbut

9 becauseyouareinthemiddleofyourevidence,I'm

10 afraidyouhavetospendyourlunchnotspeakingto

11 anybody‐‐

12 A.That'sfine.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:‐‐aboutthecaseandwewillseeyou

14 backat2o'clock.

15 A.Thankyou.

16 (1.00pm)

17 (Theshortadjournment)

18 (2.00pm)

19 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,MrStuart?

20 MRSTUART:MrsHornby,ifyouwouldhaveE11/3091.

21 {E/945/3091}

22 Isitrightthatyouonlyhadonemeetingwith

23 MrClark?

24 A.That'scorrect.

25 Q.NotlikeMrsTidmassearlier?

115

1 A.No,Ihadone.2 Q.Youjusthadtheone;wasthisinthehotel?3 A.ItwasintheHilton,that'scorrect.4 Q.Yes.Ifyougotothebottomof3091,herefersyouto5 theletter.Doyouseethat?6 A.Hm‐mm.Yes.7 Q.Andabovethat,justnexttothesecondholepunch,he8 hasaskedyouquestion:9 "CanyouconfirmthatKamhasn'tinfluencedthis?"

10 Doyouseethat?11 A.Yes.12 Q.Andheistherereferringtoyouranswerinthemiddle13 block,whereyousayyouspoketocolleagues?14 A.Hm‐mm.15 Q.Doyouseethat:16 "...Iwroteit,Ishowedthemandtheywerehappy17 tosignitafterreadingit.Therewasnopressure18 involved...19 "Question:CanyouconfirmKamhasn'tinfluenced20 this?21 "Answer:No,noway!"22 Soyourevidenceisthatreally,accordingto23 this‐‐accordingtoMrClark,youwerereallythe24 personwhowasinfluencingthecreationandsigningof25 thisletter?

116

1 A.Itypedtheletter,yes.2 Q.Notjusttypedit;youaretheonewhothenspoketo3 staffandshowedittothem?4 A.Yes.No,Idon'tdisagreewiththat.5 Q.Gotthemtoreaditandsignit?6 A.TraceyandIwrotethelettertogether.SoIappreciate7 Ihaven'tbeenclearonthatinthisparticular8 interview,butwewroteittogether,stoodsidebyside9 andwrotetheletter.

10 Q.Okay.Yousaythereyouhadshownittothem.You11 obviouslyhadn'tshownittoMrsTidmassbecauseshe12 wasn'tthere?13 A.No,again,I'vemissedoutIreadittoher,butIdid14 readittoher.SteveandDarshansawitbefore15 Iprintedit.Theyhadtheopportunitytoeditifthey16 hadwantedto.17 Q.Whenhesaid:18 "...Kamhasn'tinfluencedthis.19 "Answer:No,noway."20 That'snotquitefair,isit;youhadhadthe21 conversationinthepubwithKam?22 A.Idon'tactuallyrecallthatconversation.I'mnot23 sayingIwasn'tpartytoit.Thefactofthematteris,24 it'sreferredtoasameeting.Iappreciateit'sa‐‐25 butitwasn'tameeting,itwas‐‐wewentfrequently



117

1 afterwork.Youknow,wewouldhaveadrink,justsit

2 andchat.Itwasn'taformalmeeting.

3 Q.Yes,wewon'tcallitameeting.Wewillcallitan

4 incidentinapub,wherethestaffmembersintheteam

5 werediscussingthis?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.Kamcamein?

8 A.Hewouldhavecomefromwork.

9 Q.Hecamein?

10 A.Hm‐mm.

11 Q.Andhesaidsomethingalongthelinesof,"Ican'tbe

12 seentobeanypartofthis",or...?

13 A.Idon'tbelieve‐‐asIsay,Idon'trememberthis

14 particularoccasion.Irememberwehadadiscussion

15 whenweweren'tinworkaboutourfeelings.Obviously,

16 Darshanwasveryupsetaboutherpostponementofbeing

17 abletodoherqualificationbecauseofthesupervisor

18 argument.Soobviouslywediscussedthat‐‐

19 Q.That'snotintheletter,isit?

20 A.No,IappreciatethatbutIcan'tsaythatconversation

21 didn'thappen,though.

22 Q.Ididn'tsuggestithadn'thappened.I'msayinginyour

23 letteryoudon'tmentionanythingtodowithDarshanand

24 hersupervisoritem.It'sall‐‐wehavebeenthrough

25 theletter;I'mnotgoingtogothroughitagain.

118

1 A.No,sir.

2 Q.Ithinkyouareagreeingtherewasaninformalgathering

3 inapub,atwhichKamSinghcameinandyoudiscussed

4 thismattergenerally?

5 A.Wewouldhavebeendiscussingthemattergenerally,but

6 notwithKam.Ineverdiscussedthiswithhim.I'mnot

7 sayinghewasn'tthereifwewerehaving‐‐ifwehad

8 gonetothepubafterwork,butthediscussionwas

9 betweenteammembers.

10 Q.Allright.Sobottomofpage3091:{E/945/3091}.

11 "Ireferyoutotheletterwhichsaysothermembers

12 ofstaffaskingifthereareissueswithKam."

13 Thenyouput:

14 "InmyopinionSwarandeephasinfluencedandputup

15 otherpeopletoputingrievancesagainstKam..."

16 That'stheallegationyoumadetoMrClarkandhe

17 goesontousethatlater.Soyoumakeadirect

18 allegationthatsheputupotherpeopletoputin

19 grievancesagainstKam.Whichofthegrievancesyouare

20 referringtothere?

21 A.Inthatinstance,IwasreferringtoJohnKo,thelab

22 technician.

23 Q.Yes.

24 A.Becausehewasalreadyinaverydifficulttime

25 personallyandwasdistressedbythechangesthatwere

119

1 happeninginthelab,andIknowthathehadameeting

2 withSwarandeepandthenagrievancewasthenput

3 forwardbecauseIdidaccompanyJohntohis‐‐Iwashis

4 accompanimentforhisgrievance.

5 Q.That'sright.Soyouknowthathisgrievancewas

6 againstKam?

7 A.Yes,Idoknowthat,yes.

8 Q.AndyouknowthatJohngenuinelyfeltthatgrievance,

9 didn'the?

10 A.Johnwasunderalotofduressatthattime.His

11 brotherhadjusthadaseriousaccidentandthendid

12 passaway.Mentally,hewasn'tinagoodplace.

13 Obviously,JohnandIarestillincontacttothisday.

14 HewasinadifficulttimeandIthinkthathispersonal

15 circumstanceaffectedhisfeelingsatwork.Myopinion.

16 Q.Thequestionwas:Johngenuinelyfeltthatgrievance

17 againstKam,didn'the?

18 A.Ican'tsayhedidn't;it'shisgrievancetomake.

19 Q.Correct.Sohewasn'tputuptothatgrievanceby

20 anybodybuthimself,washe?

21 A.Hewasobviouslyadvisedthathecouldmakeagrievance.

22 Q.Areyousuggestingthathedidn'traiseallthe

23 complaintsthathewantedto?

24 A.Well,I'msimplysayingthatIdon'tthinkhewouldhave

25 madeagrievanceifhehadn'thavebeenadviseditwas

120

1 anoptionforhim.That'smyopinion,it'snot‐‐2 Q.That'snotquitethesamethingasbeing"putup"toit,3 isit?4 A.Iappreciatewhatyouaresaying.5 Q.Andthewayyouhaveputit,asnotedbyMrClark6 anyway,isthatSwarandeepputtheseotherpeopleupto7 grievancesagainstKam.YouaresayingJohnKowasone8 ofthose?9 A.IwasreferringtoJohnKo'sgrievance.

10 Q.Whoaretheothergrievancesthat‐‐peopleputin11 grievances.Whoaretheothersthatsheputuptodo12 agrievance?13 A.Iknowthat‐‐obviously,Johnhadmadeagrievance;14 Kevinhadmadeagrievance.15 Q.YouarenotsuggestingsheputupKevin?16 A.No,youareaskingmewhatgrievancesIknowabout.17 Q.No,I'maskingyouaboutwhatyouarereferringto.You18 said:19 "Swarandeephasinfluencedandputupotherpeople20 toputingrievances."21 I'maskingyou:whichgrievancesdidsheputpeople22 upto?23 A.Well,Idon'tknowhowtoanswerthat.She‐‐24 Q.No.25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Didyouwanttosaysomethingelse?



121

1 A.Idon'thaveananswer,I'msorry.

2 MRSTUART:Overonpage3092,justabovethesecond

3 holepunch:{E/945/3092}

4 "Canyougivemeyourperception/overviewof

5 Swarandeeppersonallytowardsmembersofstaff."

6 Doyouseethatquestion?Youranswer:

7 "Overthelastyearshecomesoververysweetbut

8 doesn'ttalktous.Ifshelatchesontoyouhavingany

9 nigglesshewilltalktoyouabouttheseanddiscuss

10 them,particularlyiftheyareaboutKam.Shewill

11 publiclyembarrassyouontheshopflooranddiscuss

12 errorsyouhavemade.Sheisnotgoodatholdingback

13 herfeelingsonstaff.WithLorraineinthepast

14 Swarandeepwroteamemoandputonthere'shewasbeing

15 fraudulentinhercompletingtheNHS'."

16 Wheredidyougetthatfrom?

17 A.TherewasanincidentwiththeNHSthatLorrainehad

18 amadeamistakeandtherewasamemoissued.Idon't

19 rememberthecontentsthememo;ifyouhaveit,Iwill

20 readitbut‐‐

21 Q.I'maskingyouwhereyougetthequotes‐‐it'squotes,

22 yousee.Quotes:

23 "Shewasbeingfraudulentinhercompletionofthe

24 NHS."

25 A.Ibelievethatwasinthememowewereaskedtosign.

122

1 Imaybeincorrect.

2 Q.Okay.

3 A.ButIdoknowthattherewas‐‐Swarandeephadvocalised

4 thatLorrainehadmadeanerrorwhichwouldbe

5 consideredasNHSfraud,whichis,ofcourse,very

6 seriousbecauseit'sabigpartofourbusiness.

7 Q.Wearealmostthere.3093.{E/945/3093}Heaskedyou

8 aquestion:

9 "Canyourecallanytimewhenthedirectorshave

10 underminedeachotheratall?"

11 Doyouseethat?

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.Andyoubringuptheframeadjustmentissue?

14 A.It'sveryhardtoread,yes.

15 Q.Andyousay:

16 "Kamdecidedtoissueamemo..."

17 Justonthatmemobusiness,whichmemosdidyou

18 sign?

19 A.Isignedtheoriginalmemowhichwasthatweweren'tto

20 dorepairsonnon‐Specsaversframes.

21 Q.Yes.Whataboutthememothatsaid,"Therewillbeno

22 amendmentstostandingoperatingprocedureswithoutthe

23 twodirectors'..."?

24 A.Imusthavesignedthatone,Idon'trememberrefusing

25 tosignthatmemo.

123

1 Q.Okay.

2 A.Idon'tknow,though.

3 Q.Soyougivethatexampleofthememo.Thenjustbelow

4 thesecondholepunch:

5 "Anothertimewehadaproblemwiththeclinics

6 whereSwarandeephadbookedoutclinics.Wehad

7 apatientwhoneededanurgent[something].Kambooked

8 thisinwithSwarandeepandshetookit."

9 Isthatright?

10 A.Yes,thepatienthadpresentedwithproblems,soif

11 apatientcomesinandtheyhaveproblems,wedohaveto

12 seethem.It'sadutyofcare.Soitwasbookedinto

13 theclinicbutitwasatatimewhen‐‐ifIremember

14 correctly,itwaseitherappointmentshadbeenbooked

15 outoritwasnearherlunchtime.

16 Q.Asyouexplaineditthere,thatledtoasortof

17 altercationwhereobviouslySwarandeepwasupset

18 about‐‐

19 A.Yes,shewas.

20 Q.‐‐whatKamhaddone?Youfeltthatperhapsitwas

21 beingtakenoutslightlyonyou?

22 A.Iwasonthereception‐‐Iwasrunningthedeskthat

23 day.Sotherefore,responsibilityfelltometo

24 actuallybookin‐‐beresponsiblefortheclinic

25 running.Soyes,IdofeelthatSwarandeepfeltthatit

124

1 wasmyfaultforputtinginthepatient,butitwas2 clinicallynecessary.3 Q.Butasyouputattheend:4 "Swarandeepattheendofthedayapologisedtome."5 A.Shedid,butafterKamspoketoher.Sheapologisedto6 me,yes,asIhavestated.7 Q.Yes.Thenthereisoneoverthepage,lastpage.8 {E/945/3094}9 A.Hm‐mm.

10 Q.Anissuewherealocumhadnotturnedup?11 A.Yes.12 Q."SwarandeeptoldmetoringKamtosortitout.Shewas13 arguingwithKamonthephone...andsaid'Youheard14 that,didn'tyou?'..."15 A.Yes.Swarandeepwantedmetosignacomplimentsslip,16 aheadedpaperstatingwhatKamhadsaidtoher,but17 obviouslybecauseitwasonthetelephone,Ionlyheard18 Swarandeep;Ididn'thearKam.19 Q.Yes.Sothosearethreeexamplesobviouslyof20 SwarandeepandKamdisagreeingaboutsomethingthat21 happenedintheshoponthosethreedays?22 A.Well,theincidentwiththeclinicwasnot23 adisagreementbetweenSwarandeepandKam.Itwas24 between‐‐Swarandeepcameintothestaffroomandhad25 agoatme.Iappreciateshewasfrustrated,whatever,



125

1 butshedidand,yes,shedidapologise.

2 Q.Yes.Thosearethethreeincidents.Butthenyousay

3 forsomereason‐‐yournextsentenceistheoneIhave

4 toaskyouaboutbecausethat'stheonethathasbeen

5 takenupbySpecsavers:

6 "I100percentbelievesheisputtingpeopleupto

7 puttinggrievancesin."

8 Isyourexplanationforthatthesameasthe

9 explanationyougaveabouteightminutesago?

10 A.Itwasmyfeelings.Itwasmyopinion.Iappreciate

11 it'snotfact.Itwasmyopinion.

12 Q.Andit'sbasedontheexampleoftheJohngrievance?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.Andnoneothers?

15 A.Well,likeIsay,withFatimaandJas,Ionlyknowwhat

16 theytoldmethemselves.SoIcan'treferencetheir

17 grievances.

18 Q.YouarenotsuggestingthatsheputJas‐‐

19 A.No,no,whatI'msayingis‐‐no,no.No,whatI'm

20 sayingisthattheonlyreferenceIhavetothatis

21 John,becauseFatimaandJastoldmeoftheirgrievances

22 themselves.

23 Q.Fine.Ihavejusttoaskyouonevery,veryquickfinal

24 question,anansweryougavethismorning.Wouldyougo

25 topage2902.{E/895.1/2902}.

126

1 ThisistheMay2010‐‐doyourecognisethat?2 May2010?3 A.Yes,yes,yes.4 Q.Wecansee‐‐Ithinkwecanseeyou‐‐5 MRJUSTICENUGEE:It'stheMay2010what?Whatisit,6 MrsHornby?7 A.Itwasastaffrota.8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Rota,thankyou.9 MRSTUART:Andwecanseeyou,Ithink,sevenlinesfrom

10 thebottom:"Lucy".11 A.Yes.12 Q.Thismusthavebeenafteryoureturnedfromyour13 maternityleave?14 A.Yes.15 Q.Ithinkyouwereonmaternityleaveonthe29th‐‐16 A.Yes,IhadthoughtIhadreturnedonthe1standthis17 proves‐‐correct.18 Q.Sothat's1May,youreturnedfrommaternityleave?19 A.Yes.20 Q.Andwecanseeyoubasicallyworkedweekends,didn't21 you,SaturdayandSunday?22 A.Yes,Icameinonapart‐timebasis.23 Q.Okay.MsBirdi,sheisatthetopunder"Optom,SB".24 Doyouseethat?25 A.Yes.

127

1 Q.ShetendednottoworkSundays,didn'tshe?

2 A.Ithinkonafewoccasionsweworkedtogether,butthat

3 wasiftherewasn'tanybodyelse.

4 Q.That'sfine.SoI'mtryingtofindtheoccasions,you

5 see,whenyouwereworkingandshewasworkingandJas

6 wasworking.Doyouseethat?AndFatima.Becauseyou

7 saythatyoupersonallyexperiencedthemhuddling

8 together,etcetera.Doyouremember?

9 A.Personallyexperiencedthemhuddlingtogether?Inthe

10 testroom,onoccasion,yes,Idid.

11 Q.Onoccasion?

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.IcanseethatonSaturday,22May‐‐doyouseeJas?

14 Shewasthereonthatdate.Fatimawasthereonthat

15 dateandsowasSwarandeepandsowereyou?

16 A.Hm‐mm.

17 Q.Doyouseethat?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.ButSwarandeepwasonholidaythepreviousSaturday,

20 indeedtheweekbeforethat."H",doyouseethat?

21 A.It'snotveryclear.

22 Q.It'snotveryclearbuttakeitfrommeshewason

23 holiday?

24 A.Yes,Ido.

25 Q.Andtheweekpriortothat?

128

1 A.Right.

2 Q.Soitcan'thavebeentheweekendofthe15thorthe

3 8th.Doyousee?Andshewasoffsickonthe1st.So

4 shewasn'tactuallythereonanySaturdayinMay,which

5 isafteryoucamebackfromyourmaternityleave,on

6 occasionswhenyoucouldhavepossiblyseenthese

7 occasionsofherhuddlingwithJasandFatima.SoI'm

8 goingtosuggesttoyouthatyouareexaggeratingyour

9 evidencethere.

10 NowthatIhaveshownyouthis,doyouconfirmit

11 wasonlyoneSaturdaythatyouwereactuallythereand

12 shewasthereandJasandFatimawerethere?

13 A.Well,fromlookingatthis,it'stheonlywayIcansay

14 that,butobviously,itmustbeso.

15 MRSTUART:Okay.Ihavegotnomorequestions,myLord?

16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrPotts?

17 Re‐examinationbyMRPOTTS

18 MRPOTTS:Justonequestion,myLord.

19 Justgobacktoyourinterviewat3092.{E/945/3092}

20 Infactactually,3091.{E/945/3091}Atthebottomof

21 thepageitwasputtoyouthattheonlyexampleof

22 agrievancewhereMsBirdihadinfluencedthestaffwas

23 theexampleofJohn.

24 A.Yes.

25 Q.Ifyougooverthepage,3092,{E/945/3092}Doyousee



129

1 that?ThentherewasKevin.

2 CouldIalsoinviteyoutolookatwhatthenfollows

3 inrelationtomattersaboutDarshan,andparticularly

4 attheendofthatparagraph:

5 "Afewweeks..."

6 Doyouseethat:

7 "Afewweekslater..."

8 A.Sorry,Ican't.Idoapologise.

9 Q.ItwasputtoyoubyMrStuartthattheonlyexample

10 thatyougavewasthatofagrievancebyJohn?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Ifyougoalittlebitfurtherdownthepage,justabove

13 thefirstholepunch?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.ThereisareferencetoKevinandthenyousay:

16 "Thatdoesn'tsurpriseme.Wehadanissuewith

17 DarshanbeingsupervisedinthepastandSwarandeep

18 wouldn'tsignoffhersupervision."

19 WhichIthinkyouhavediscussed.

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Thenitsays:

22 "AfewweekslaterSwarandeeppresentedDarshanwith

23 atypedletterraisingagrievancewithKamoverhim

24 signingthesupervision[letter]."

25 A.Yes,sorry.Yes,Iseethat,sorry.

130

1 Q.Youweren'tshownthat.Doesthatrefreshyourmemory

2 inrelationtotheexamplesyougaveinrelationto

3 grievances?

4 A.Yes,itdoes,sir.

5 MRPOTTS:Thankyou.

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:CanIjustaskyou,MrsHornby:whatwas

7 yourunderstandingofJohnKo'sgrievance?

8 A.WhatIunderstandwasthatwhenKamcameintothe

9 business,thelabhadrunacertainwayforawhileand

10 itwasn'tinthebestinterestsofthebusinessin

11 regardstoproductivity.SoKaminstigatedchangesthat

12 weretoimprovetheperformanceofthelab,availability

13 ofthingswecould‐‐glasseswecouldmakeindifferent

14 prescriptions,andalsothewaytheprocessesweredone.

15 AndJohndidn'tagreetothechanges.

16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyou.Oneotherthing:whatwas

17 yourjob?

18 A.AtthetimeIwasanopticalassistant,adispenser.

19 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuch.

20 Iftherearenoquestionsarisingoutofthat,then

21 thankyouverymuch,MrsHornby.Youarereleased,

22 whichmeansyoucangoifyouwantto;youareperfectly

23 welcometostayifyouwouldratherstay.

24 A.Thankyou.

25 MRSTUART:MyLord,canIcallMrHummell.

131


2 MRSTEPHENHUMMELL(affirmed)


4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Do,please,sitdown,MrHummell.

5 MRSTUART:MrHummell,Ithinkyousatthroughthis

6 morning'sevidence,soyouhaveheardwhatwehavebeen

7 discussing?

8 A.Idid.

9 Q.Allright,yes.IfyougotopageE11,3009,

10 {E/935.1/3009}thereistheletter?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Youobviouslydidsignit?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.Thefirstroundofsignatures?

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.Doyourecallthecircumstancesinwhichtheletterwas

17 actuallyphysicallytypedandsigned?It'sfouryears

18 ago.

19 A.Yes,notactuallyphysicallytyped.Isigneditin

20 store.

21 Q.Youdid?

22 A.Yes.

23 Q.Whopresentedittoyoutosign?

24 A.Lucy.

25 Q.Lucy.Doyourecalltheconversationinthepub?

132

1 A.Yes,Iremembergoingtothepub.2 Q.Andareyouabletohelpusastoroughlywhenthatwas3 bycomparisonwiththedateoftheletter?Sohowlong4 beforetheletter?5 A.Again,Ican'tbeabsolutely100percentcertain.It6 mighthavebeenaweekbefore.Itmighthavebeenabit7 beforethat.I'mnotabsolutelysure.8 Q.Okay.Justlookingattheallegationsinthisletter,9 youseethesecondparagraph:

10 "Wedon'twanttoloseKam..."11 Iknowyoudidn'tdrafttheletter,youonlyreadit12 andsigneditafterithadbeendrafted,butdoyouknow13 whyyouwereputtingyournametoalettersaying:14 "Wedon'twanttoloseKam..."15 A.Yes,becausehewasverymuchimportanttotheshop16 floor.Hewastheretaildirectorandheledusonthe17 shopfloor.18 Q.AndwhydidyouthinkyoumightloseKam?19 A.Ijustfelt‐‐mepersonallyIjustfeltthatitwas20 importantthatwemadeourfeelingsclear.21 Q.I'mnotsurethat'squiteananswertothequestion.22 WhydidyouthinkyoumightloseKam?Whyexpress23 aconcern,saying:24 "Wedon'twanttoloseKam..."25 Whatgaveyoutheimpressionthatyoumightbeabout



133

1 toloseKam?

2 A.Iwasn'tgiventheimpressionthatwewereabouttolose

3 Kam.

4 Q.Youwereawarethathewasthesubjectofaserious

5 grievancebyJas?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.AndIthinkyouhaddiscussedthatwithhim,hadn'tyou,

8 withKamSingh?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Hehadtoldyouaboutit?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Hehadtalkedtoyouaboutit?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.Youpersonally?

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.Washeinthehabitoftalkingtoyouaboutmatterslike

17 that?Wereyouandhefriends?

18 A.No.

19 Q.No,sowhywashe‐‐

20 A.Hewasmydirector.

21 Q.Iknowhewas.Butwhywashetalkingtoyou,an

22 employee,aboutanallegationofsexualharassment

23 againsthimbyoneofyourfellowemployees?

24 A.Idon'tknow.

25 Q.Youdonotknow;okay.Doyourememberroughlywhenit

134

1 wasthathementionedthattoyou,whenhespoketoyou2 aboutthat,roughly?3 A.Notasadate,no.4 Q.No,okay.Anyway,youwereawarethathewas‐‐5 certainlybythetimeofthisletteryouwereawarethat6 hewasthesubjectofgrievancesbothbyJasandby7 Fatima?8 A.Ididn'tknowaboutFatima.9 Q.Okay.Ithinkyoudid.

10 A.Idon'trecallknowing.11 Q.Iwillremindyou.Let'stakeyouback.Doyou12 remember‐‐2961‐‐Ithinkyoudidknowaboutit,13 MrHummell,becauseyouwereinterviewedaboutitby14 MrRajanon3June2010.Sothat'sabouttwoweeks15 beforetheletter.16 2961?{E/919/2961}17 A.Yes.18 Q.Youwerebeingaskedaboutthegrievances:thefirst19 one,Fatima'sgrievance;thesecondone,Jas's20 grievance.Doyouremember?Doesthishelptorefresh21 yourmemorynow?22 A.Icanseeitthere,yes.23 Q.SoyoudidknowaboutFatima'sgrievance,didn'tyou?24 A.Imusthavedone,yes.25 Q.WhotoldyouaboutFatima'sgrievance?

135

1 A.Idon'tknow.

2 Q.I'llsuggesttoyouthatitwasKam?

3 A.Idon'tknow,andthat'sanhonestanswer.

4 Q.Okay.ItcouldhavebeenKamoritmighthavebeen

5 somebodyelse?

6 A.Idon'tknowwhoitwas.

7 Q.AfterdealingwithFatima'sgrievanceformostofthe

8 page,atthebottom,fivelinesfromthebottom,

9 MrRajansaid:

10 "What'syourunderstandingaroundJas'sgrievance?"

11 SowehavemovedontoJas'sgrievances.Doyousee

12 it?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.Yousaid:{E/919/2961}

15 "Somekindofharassmentinasexualway.

16 "Question:Wheredidyouhearthatfrom?

17 "Answer:Kamtoldme."

18 A.Hm‐mm.

19 Q.WhathadKamtoldyouaboutthisgrievance,this"sexual

20 way"?

21 A.ExactlyasIhavestatedthere.Ithinktherewasan

22 allegationofthembeingalone.That'stheonlyone

23 thatIknowaboutthatIcanrecall,unlessyouare

24 goingtosaythatthereissomethingelseinhere,but

25 theonlyonethatIcanrecallwasanendofaday,with

136

1 cashingup.That'stheonlyonethatIcanrecall.And2 Ihavenothingelse.3 Q.Okay.SowhenKamwastalkingtoyouaboutFatima's4 grievance,theoneofsexualharassmentinasexual5 way‐‐6 A.Hm‐mm.7 Q.‐‐whatdidhesaytoyouaboutthat?8 A.Itookitorfeltthathewassomeonethatwasbeing9 falselyaccusedofsomethingandyouwouldbevery

10 worriedifyouwasbeingfalselyaccusedofsomething.11 Whyhechosetospeaktome,Idon'tknow.12 Q.Okay.Wereyouawareoftheconversationsthat13 MrsTidmassdescribedtousearlier:ontheshopfloor,14 everybodyknewwhatJaswasalleging?15 A.I'mawarethatshewastellingpeople,yes.16 Q.Soatthetime‐‐17 A.Shedidn'ttellme.18 Q.No,butwereyouawarefromothersastowhather19 allegationswere?20 A.I'mnotawareofanythingelseotherthanwhatIhave21 juststatedtoyou.22 Q.Yes,butallyouhavestatedtomeisthatKamtoldyou23 aboutsomething?24 A.Yes.25 Q.I'mnotaskingyouwhatKamtoldyou.I'msaying:you



137

1 agreewithMrsTidmass'sevidencethatontheshop2 floor,peopleknewwhatJas'sallegationswere?3 A.Yes.4 Q.YousaidthatJashadn'tspokentoyouaboutthem5 herself?6 A.No.7 Q.ButIaskedyou:didyouhearaboutwhatherallegations8 werefromtheothermembersonthestaffontheshop9 floor?

10 A.Indepth,no.11 Q.Okay.So,havingbecomeawareoftheJasallegations12 fromKam,notfromothers‐‐isthatright?13 A.Hm‐mm.14 Q.HowdidyoubecomeawareofFatima'sallegations?15 A.Idon'tknow;Ican'trecall.16 Q.Okay.DidyouhaveanyconversationwithFatima?17 A.NotthatIrecall,no.18 Q.No.WithLucyperhaps?19 A.No,Idon'tthinkso.NotthatIcanremember.20 Q.Allright.21 Goingbackto3009,inthethirdparagraphit's22 written:{E/935.1/3009}23 "WehavefeltostracisedbySwarandeep..."24 Again,Iknowit'snotyourwords,youdidn'twrite25 it,butdidyouunderstandwhatthatmeantwhenyou

138

1 signeduptothis?

2 A.AsfarasIwasconcerned,itwastheteambeingsplit,

3 splitinasmuchasyouhadJasandFatimahadcomein,

4 butalso,youhadthetwopeopleatthetopthatwere

5 obviouslynotgettingonverywellandthatisn'tvery

6 goodonaretailenvironment.

7 Q.Right.Butthetwopeopleatthetopnotgettingon

8 verywell,that'snotyou,theteam,beingostracisedby

9 Swarandeep,isit?

10 A.Itfeltasif,forme,thatalltheservicethatIhad

11 givendidn'tmatterandtwonewpeoplewouldcomeinand

12 theyseemedtobepreferred.Thatwasmypersonal

13 feeling.

14 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Howlonghadyoubeenthere,MrHummell?

15 A.Atthattime,threeyears.


17 MRSTUART:Allright.Theparagraphthengoeson.After

18 itdealswiththepreferentialtreatment,whichiswhat

19 Ithinkyouhavejustmentioned,ittalksabout

20 whisperingconversationsandhuddlesbetweenthethree

21 ofthem.Hadyouactuallyexperiencedthoseyourselfor

22 wasthatwhatyouwerehearingfromyourcolleagues?

23 A.No,theyusedtogointothetestroom.

24 Q.Andhowoftenwasthat,accordingtoyou,thatthethree

25 ofthemwentintothetestroom?

139

1 A.Ican'trecallexactfiguresbutitdidhappen.

2 Q.Okay.Andthentheseriousallegationismadethatyou

3 weredistressedbythegrievancestheyhavebrought,and

4 "they"hereisreferringtoJasandFatima.That's

5 clearfromthenextwords,whichsay:

6 "...theyhavebroughtintheirshorttimeinthe

7 store..."

8 Becausetheywerethetwoshorttimeemployeeswho

9 hadmadegrievances.Doyousee?So:

10 "...wehavebeendistressedbythegrievancesthey

11 havebrought..."?

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.Toyourmindthat'sthegrievancefromJasaboutsexual

14 harassmentthatyouknewabout?

15 A.Hm‐mm.

16 Q.AndthegrievancefromFatimathatyoudidn'treally

17 knowwhatitwasabout?

18 A.Yes.Imean,obviouslyatthetimeImusthaveknownit

19 wasaboutextendingprobation.Ididn'trememberthat

20 untilIreaditthere.

21 Q.WasitjustaboutextendedprobationorwasFatima's

22 grievanceabitwiderthanthat,inthatshefeltthat

23 shehadbeenbadlytreatedandthatKamSinghmadeher

24 feeluncomfortable,etcetera?

25 A.Iamnotawareofthat.

140

1 Q.Okay.Soasfarasyouwereaware,thatsentence

2 relatedtothesexualharassmentallegationandthe

3 extendedprobationallegationbyFatima?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.Andwhywereyoudistressedbythosetwothings?

6 A.It'sjustnotnicetocomeintoworkandhavethose

7 thingsgoingon.

8 Q.Perhapsoneshouldblametheperpetrator,ratherthan

9 thevictim.Butthat'swhatyouaresaying,isit?The

10 distressthatyouaretalkingaboutisjustsimplywith

11 thefactthatgrievanceswereraised?

12 A.Butitwasthewholeissue,aswell,thewholeworking

13 environment,thewaythattheteamhasbeenaffectedby

14 themaswell.

15 Q.Bythetwoofthem,byJasandFatima?

16 A.Yes.

17 Q.Anyway,itsays:


19 broughtintheirshorttimeinthestoreandwefeel

20 Swarandeephastakenabigpartinthembeingbroughtto

21 headoffice'sattention..."

22 Intheoriginalversionitsaid:

23 "...unnecessarily."

24 Whenyousignedit,hadthatbeencrossedoutyetor

25 not?



141

1 A.Ihonestlydonotknow,Icannotremember.

2 Q.Okay,fairenough.

3 Theeffectoftheallegation,however,isthatyou

4 feel‐‐you,thesixmembersofstaffwhosignedthis

5 documentsfeelthatSwarandeepisinsomeway

6 instrumentalinthesetwogrievances.Isthatright?

7 Becausethatseemsanawfullyunfaircriticismof

8 Swarandeep?

9 A.Itwasmorethatwejustwantedthiswholesituationto

10 beresolvedandforourworkplaceenvironmenttobe

11 settled.

12 Q.That'snottheimpressiongivenbythatsentence,isit:


14 broughtintheirshorttimeinthestoreandwefeel

15 Swarandeephastakenabigpartinthembeingbroughtto

16 headoffice'sattention..."

17 Anditmayormaynothavesaid"unnecessarily".

18 It'sacriticismofSwarandeep,isn'tit?

19 A.Ifyouarelookingatitlikethat,youcantakeitthat

20 way.

21 Q.Howelsedoyoutakeit?

22 A.Idon'tknow.

23 Q.Fairenough:

24 "Weareawareshehasapproached..."

25 Thatmustbe"she",Swarandeep.Isthatright?

142

1 A.Okay,yes.

2 Q.Idon'twanttoputwordsintoyourmouth.Maybeyou

3 meantJas?

4 A.No,itwouldhavebeenSwarandeep.

5 Q.Okay:

6 "Weareawarethatshehasapproachedothermembers

7 ofourteamaskingiftheyhaveanyissues(grievances)

8 withKam.Thishasbeeninstigatedbyherselfandnot

9 bythosemembersofstaff."

10 Wasthatsomethingyoupersonallykneworwasthat

11 somethingyouheardfromLucyand/orTracey?

12 A.Ihonestlycan'tremember.

13 Q.Fairenough:

14 "WerealiseSwarandeepandKamhaveadifficult

15 relationship.Swarandeepisalwayscommentingonthis

16 fact..."

17 Certainlyatonestageinherevidence,MrsHornby

18 said,no,Swarandeepdidn'tactuallysayanythinglike

19 that;whatshemeantbythatwasthat,fromthingsthat

20 happenedinthestorebetweenthetwoofthem,itbecame

21 clearthattheyhadaproblemintheirrelationship?

22 A.Hm‐mm.

23 Q.ButperhapsyouaregoingtosaythatSwarandeep

24 commentedoralwayscommentedtoyouthatsheandKam

25 hadabadrelationship?

143

1 A.No.

2 Q.No.Soit'snotyouwhoismakingthatallegation,the

3 commentingallegation?

4 A.Isignedtheletter.

5 Q.Iknowyoudid,butit'sfairenough.Youdon'thaveto

6 agreewitheverythingthat'sintheletter?

7 A.No,Istandbyeverything.

8 Q.Iknow,butyoupersonallydon'tknowthatSwarandeepis

9 alwayscommentingonthisfact.That'snotyourown

10 personalexperience?

11 A.No.

12 Q.Okay:

13 "Kamdoesnotinvolveusintheir'problems'..."

14 That'snotquitefair,isit?Hedoestoanextent

15 involveyouintheirproblems,whentherewastheissue

16 ofthememobeingsignedbackwardsandforwards?

17 A.No,thatwasn'tKam.

18 Q.Okay.Right.Nextparagraph:

19 "Inthepastmanyofushavehadissueswith

20 Swarandeep..."

21 MsBirdiissurprisedtohearthatfromyou.She

22 hadnotunderstoodthatyouhadissueswithherinthe

23 pastandyouhadworkedforherforquiteawhile?

24 A.Threeyears.

25 Q.Threeyears.

144

1 A.Well,whenshefirstcamebackfromherfirst

2 suspension,yes.

3 Q.Yes.Sointhatperiodoftime,2008/2009,Swarandeep

4 isnotawareoftheproblems/issuesthatshehashad

5 withyou.Perhaps‐‐again,isthisanexamplewhere

6 it'snotactuallyyouthatwearetalkingabout?

7 A.TherearetwoexamplesinmystatementthatIwasvery

8 upsetabout,ifthat'swhatyouwanttoreferto.

9 Q.Idon'twanttorefertoanything;I'maskingyou.Are

10 yousayingthatyouwereoneofthemanypeoplewhohad

11 issueswithSwarandeep?

12 A.No.

13 Q.No.Good,okay,that'sfine.Itfollowsfromthatyou

14 arenotoneofthepeoplewhowasscaredof

15 repercussions?

16 A.WhenIfirstwent‐‐wasemployedinthestore,Iheard

17 manythingsfrombefore,soit'salwaysatthebackof

18 yourmind.

19 Q.Soyouheardotherpeople‐‐

20 A.Hm‐mm.

21 Q.‐‐sayingthat,what,theywerescaredortheyhadheard

22 otherpeoplewerescared?That'sreallywhatyouare

23 tryingtorefertothere?Isthatwhatyouaresaying?

24 A.Doyouknow,Ijustdon'tknow.

25 Q.Okay:



145

1 "Swarandeepcanmakeyoufeelveryintimidatedand2 pressuredandwehavebeenfrightened..."3 Woulditbefairtosaythat'snotyou,personally?4 A.Yes.5 Q.Thankyou.6 Thepurposeofthisletter.Canwejustcomeback7 tothat,nowthatyouhavehadachancetogothrough8 eachpartofit.WasthepurposetosupportKam?Was9 thatoneofthepurposes?

10 A.No.11 Q.NottosupportKam?12 A.No.13 Q."Wedon'twanttoloseKam..."14 "Kamdoesnotinvolveusinthe'problems'andtries15 tomakeourworkingenvironmentashappyand16 smooth‐runningaspossible."17 YouarenottryingtosupportKaminthisletter?18 A.No,wearetryingtosupportthebusiness.19 Q.Wasoneofthepurposesofthelettertocriticise20 Swarandeep?21 A.No.22 Q.No?Wasoneofthepurposesofthelettertoexplain23 whyyoudidn'twantJasandFatimareturningtowork‐‐24 sorry,Fatima,notJas‐‐Fatimareturningafterher25 resignation?

146

1 A.BothJasandFatimawereverydivisivefigureswithin2 theworkplace.3 Q.Yes?4 A.So,yes.5 Q.Right,sooneofthepurposeswasthatyouweredoing6 thisinordertomakesurethatFatimadidn'tcomeback?7 A.Idon'tthinkthat'sthereasonallofthiswaswritten,8 no.9 Q.Okay?

10 A.ThereasonsIhavegivenyoujustnowarethereal11 reasons.12 Q.Allright.Wasitsuggestedtoyoubysomebodythat13 therewasachanceofFatimacomingback?14 A.Yes.15 Q.Whotoldyouthat?16 A.IthinkitwasTracey.17 Q.Andwheredidshegetitfrom?18 A.Idon'tknow.19 Q.Okay.Allright.Sothepurposeoftheletterthen,as20 farasyouareconcerned,was‐‐21 A.Toalleviatethefeelingintheworkplaceforusas22 ateam,we'reaveryunitedteam,andtoensurethatthe23 businesswasgoingokay.24 Q.Right.Youwereinterviewedaboutthissixdayslater,25 page3095.{E/946/3095}

147

1 ThiswasyouronlyinterviewwithMrClark,wasit?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Youdidn'thaveasecondoneinthestoreinJuly?4 A.No.5 Q.Sothiswasthehotelmorning?6 A.Yes.7 Q.3095,firstholepunch.8 A.Yes.9 Q."DidKaminfluencethisletteratall?"

10 A.Hm‐mm.11 Q.Yousay:12 "No,no,hedidn't."13 That'snotquiteright,isit?Hehadspokentoyou14 inthepub?Yousaidyoucouldn'trememberwhetherit15 wasaweekbeforeorabitbeforethat?16 A.Irememberusgoingtothepub.Ihonestlydon't17 rememberKambeingthere.18 Q.Youdon'trememberhimbeingthere?19 A.No.20 Q.Oh.Okay.MrsTidmassremembershimbeingthere?21 A.Iknow.22 Q.MrsHornby‐‐Ithinkherrecollectionwasnotsoclear23 aboutthemeetingatall.24 Soatthemeetinginthepub‐‐25 A.Itwasn'tameeting.

148

1 Q.Notameeting,sorry.Attheeventinthepub‐‐2 A.Anafter‐workgathering.3 Q.Anafter‐workgathering.Atthegatheringinthepub,4 you,betweenyou,werediscussingaboutwriting5 aletter?6 A.Wewasdiscussingthesituationandeverything,yes.7 Q.Anditcameontothequestionofwritingaletter?8 A.Ican'trememberiftheletterwasdiscussedthere,but9 itcouldhavebeen.

10 Q.Allright.Goingbackto3095,youtalkMrClark11 throughthis.Doyousee?Thenextquestion:12 "Youhavehadtimetothinkaboutthis,canyou13 pleasetalkmethroughyourthoughts?"14 Doyouseethat?15 A.Hm‐mm.16 Q.Andyouranswerwas:17 "Weknowthedirectorshaveadifficult18 relationship.Swarandeepistheonlyonewhomentions19 this."20 Sothat'ssortofpickingupontheallegationin21 theletterthatshe‐‐22 A.Hm‐mm.23 Q.Youquitefairlydidn'tpursuethatallegationwhen24 Iaskedyouaboutit,aboutfourminutesago?25 A.Hm‐mm.



149

1 Q.Sothatwasn'tquiteright,wasit.Swarandeepwasn't2 theonewhomentionsthis,thedifficultrelationship?3 A.Ihavesaiditwasn'tmentionedtomesoIguess‐‐yes.4 Q.Didyouhavetheletterinfrontofyouwhenyouwere5 withMrClark?6 A.Idon'tremember.7 Q.Okay.Sothenyougoonhere:8 "Hetriestosupporttheteamanddrivethestore9 forward.Therearethingsinrecentmonthsthat

10 particularlyconcernme,particularlywiththearrival11 ofFatimaandJas.Theyareofteninthetestroom12 together.Thisispreferentialtreatmenttowardsthem."13 Doyouseethat?14 A.Yes:15 Q."Sheignoresmesometimesandgives[something]to16 them."17 A."Handovers",thatis.18 Q."...handoverstothem."19 Isthiswhere‐‐20 A.Whenthesighttestisfinishedandthedispensing21 assistanttakesthepatient.22 Q.Yes.23 A.Yes,Ididfeelthat.24 Q.Okay.That'snotmentionedintheletter,isit?25 A.No,butthisismypersonal...

150

1 Q.Yes:2 "Ihavebeenupsetinthestore.Swarandeepdidan3 eyetestonmeandtoldmemylefteyewas'crap'."4 A.Yes.5 Q.SoyousaidthattoMrClark?6 A.Yes.7 Q.Atyourmeetingon22June?8 A.Yes.9 Q.Andyouhadn'tsaidthattoanybodyelsepriortothat?

10 A.Ihadmentioneditatwork.11 Q.Okay,butyoucertainlyhadn'tputitinanyformof12 statementorletter‐‐13 A.No.14 Q.‐‐priortothat?15 A.No.16 Q.Andyoudidn'tmentionittoanybodyafterthateither?17 A.Whenyousaydidn'tmentionittoanybody,whodoyou18 mean?19 Q.Here,youhavegivenMr‐‐inanotedinterview‐‐20 A.Hm‐mm.21 Q.‐‐whichyouweresigningfor,presumably,attheend.22 Isthatright?23 A.Yes.24 Q.Actually,no,youdidn'tsignthis,sorry,Iexaggerate.25 Butinanotedinterviewhewasmakingnotes,washe,

151

1 MrClark?2 A.Therewasanotherpersonmakingthenotes,Ibelieve.3 Q.Doyourecallwhothatwas?4 A.No.5 Q.Allright.Sothenote‐takerwastakingnotesandyou6 madethisassertionaboutSwarandeep'scommentsthat7 youreyewas"crap"?8 A.Thatwasafact.9 Q.Yes,I'mnotsayingthatit'snot.I'maskingyouabout

10 whenyoumadethisallegation.Youhadn'tmadeit11 previouslyinwritingorinawitnessstatement?12 A.No.13 Q.Andyoudidn'tmakeitafterwardsinwritingorin14 awitnessstatement?15 A.No.16 Q.And:17 "Andthensaid'sorry..."18 Isthatright?Shethensaidsorry?19 A.Shesaid:20 "'...didIsaythatoutloud?'"21 Howthatactuallycameabout,thereis22 asupplementarytestcalledafieldtesttoasight23 test,whereyouclickabuttonandyouarereactingto24 lightsorlittleshapesandwithmylefteyeImissed25 quitealotandIkepttryingtodoitandthat'swhen

152

1 thecommentwasmade.Anothercolleaguewasdoingthat

2 fieldtestwithme,Carl,Ibelieveitwas,sothat's

3 whenshesaidit.

4 Q.Okay.MsBirdidoesn'tdofieldtesting,doesshe?

5 A.No,butyouhavetopresentthattotheoptometrist,

6 so...

7 Q.Andthentheotherincidentyoumentionoverthepage,

8 3096,{E/946/3096}anotherincidentonaTuesday,Kam's

9 dayoff,yougotothetestroomandthereissomeissue

10 aboutavarifocaldispense.Doyourecallthat?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Soyoumentionedthattohim?

13 A.Hewasinthelab.Itwashisdayoffbutitwasavery

14 highprescription.Thegentlemanhadanextremely

15 specificlens,whichatthattimeIhadneverheardof.

16 Aminus‐21prescriptionisvery,veryrareandyou

17 use‐‐youdispense‐‐hehadwhatwecallalantalic

18 lens,whichisanasphericlens,whichisquite

19 specialisedanditisn'twithinacorerange,andIhad

20 noideahowtodispenseit.

21 Q.Allright.Sothat'sanincidentyoumentionthere.

22 Thenheaskedyou:

23 "Haveyouseeneitherofthedirectorsactually

24 underminetheotherone?"

25 That'shisquestion.Doyouseeit?



153

1 A.Yes.2 Q.Andyousay:3 "Yes."4 Andyoumentiontheincidentofthetwo5 contradictingmemos?6 A.Yes.7 Q.Andthenyousaythis:8 "AnincidentalsorecentlywhereFatimahadleftthe9 businessandSwarandeepwastryingtogetherbackin

10 thebusiness."11 A.Yes.12 Q.Doyouseethat?13 A.Yes.14 Q.YouaregivingthisasanexampleofSwarandeep15 underminingKam,oryouappeartobe.That'sthe16 question:17 "Haveyoueverseeneitherofthedirectorsactually18 underminetheotherone?"19 Andyourexampleis:20 "...FatimaleftthebusinessandSwarandeepwas21 tryingtogetherbackinthebusiness."22 Doyouseethat?23 A.Yes,Ican,yes.24 Q.Apartfromthefactthat'suntrue‐‐25 A.I'mjusttakingthetimetoreadit,ifthat'sokay?

154

1 Q.Ofcourse;youreadthatbitthere.(Pause)

2 A.Okay.

3 Q.SothisistheinterviewthatyouhadwithSwarandeep

4 andTraceythatMsBirdigaveevidenceabout,2June.

5 Isthatright?

6 A.Aninterview?

7 Q.Interview,ameeting,whatshallwecallit?

8 Adiscussioninaroom.

9 A.TraceyandIwereveryupsetandSwarandeepwasn't

10 actuallywithapatientatthattimesowewenttoher

11 andwentinthetestroom.

12 Q.Yes.ThepositionactuallywasthatSwarandeephadbeen

13 giveninstructionsbySOG.Didyouknowthat?

14 A.No.

15 Q.No.YouhavesaidherethatSwarandeepwastryingto

16 gether‐‐that'sFatima‐‐backinthebusiness?

17 A.Hm‐mm.

18 Q.Howdoyouknowthat?

19 A.AsIsay,IthinkTraceytoldmejustpriortousgoing

20 tothetestroom.

21 Q.Okay.AndwheredidTraceygetitfrom?

22 A.Idon'tknow.

23 Q.Swarandeepspoketothetwoofyouaboutit,didn'tshe?

24 A.Inthetestroom,yes.

25 Q.Andyoumadeyourfeelingsveryclear‐‐

155

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.‐‐thatyouhadseriouscomplaintsaboutFatima

3 generally?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.Nothingtodowithhergrievanceoranythinglike

6 that‐‐

7 A.No,no.

8 Q.‐‐butaboutherconductandabilitiesontheshopfloor

9 andthatsortofthing?

10 A.Yes,andIjustfeltthather‐‐ifyouarejusttalking

11 aboutFatimaasoneperson,itwasdivisivefortheteam

12 tocomebackin,andthatconcernedme.

13 Q.Youyourselfhadn'tmentionedthattoSwarandeep,your

14 concernsaboutFatima,priortothatmeeting,hadyou?

15 A.No.

16 Q.No.Yougoonthere:

17 "SwarandeepstilltriedtogetFatimain..."

18 Ithinkitsays:

19 "ThenextdaySwarandeepstilltriedtogetFatima

20 in."

21 A.Hm‐mm.

22 Q.Wheredidyougetthatfrom?

23 A.Ican'tremember,Ihonestlycan'tremember.

24 Q.IsthatwhatKamtoldyou?

25 A.No,Idon'tthinkso,no.

156

1 Q.Tracey?

2 A.Possibly,butIhonestlycan'tremember.It'swhat

3 ItrulybelievedbutIcan'tremember.

4 Q.Okay.Myqueryaboutallofthatissincenoneofthat

5 referstoKam‐‐theincidentwithFatima,aboutFatima?

6 A.Hm‐mm.

7 Q.‐‐whyareyouputtingthatupasanexampleofone

8 directoractuallyunderminingtheotherone?DidKam

9 tellyou‐‐

10 A.No.

11 Q.DidSwarandeeptellyou?

12 A.No.

13 Q.No.SowhyisthatanexampleofSwarandeepundermining

14 Kam?

15 A.Idon'tknow.That'stheanswerIgave.Istandby

16 whatIsaid,butthat'stheanswerIgave.Maybeitwas

17 notinrelationtothequestionthatwasput,but

18 IstandbywhatIsaid.

19 Q.Right.Okay.Waseverythingyousaidwrittendown?

20 A.AsfarasIamaware.

21 Q.Wereyoushownthesenotesattheendofthemeeting

22 withMrClark?

23 A.Ican'tremember,Ihonestlydon'tremember.

24 Q.Okay.Overthepage,lastpageofyourinterview.

25 {E/946/3097}Doyouseejustabovethefirstholepunch



157

1 ontheright‐handside,thesentencestarts:

2 "Heneverletshisownissuesgetinthewayof

3 supportingthestaff.Icouldn'tgotoSwarandeepand

4 shewouldn't..."

5 Isthat"listen"?:

6 "WeneedKamtomotivateus,drivethebusiness

7 forwardontheshopfloor."

8 A.Hm‐mm.

9 Q.Doyouseethat?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.WereyoutheretosupportKam?

12 A.No.

13 Q.No.MrClarkaskedyou:

14 "Hassheeveraskedyoupersonallytosignanything

15 againstKam?

16 "Answer:No,shehasnot..."

17 A.Hm‐mm.

18 Q."...butthensheknowsIamimpartial."

19 Isthatright?Isthatwhatyousaid?

20 A.That'swhatIhavesaid,yes.

21 Q.Verylastquestion:didMsBirdilendyousomemoneyon

22 occasions?

23 A.Yes.

24 MRSTUART:Nomorequestions.

25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrPotts?

158

1 MRPOTTS:No.

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuchforcoming,

3 MrHummell.Youarefreetogoifyouwantto.

4 MRSTUART:MyLord,couldIaskthatthefiveminutebreak

5 benow?

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Certainly.

7 MRSTUART:Thereisareasonforit,whichisIwantto

8 just‐‐

9 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Youdon'tneedtoexplain.

10 MRSTUART:Thankyou.

11 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Wewilltakefiveminutes.Fiveminutes.

12 (3.00pm)

13 (Shortbreak)

14 (3.05pm)

15 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,MrStuart.

16 MRSTUART:So,myLord,theonlypersonleftinmysideof

17 theevidenceisMrRehman.


19 MRSTUART:Asyouknow,MrPottshasexplainedhedoesn't

20 wanttocross‐examinehimaboutanythinginhiswitness

21 statement.


23 MRSTUART:ButIexplainedthatthereweretwosupplemental

24 mattersthatIwouldwanttogetMrRehmantogive

25 evidenceabout.Idon'tthinkIgotontoexplaining

159

1 thesecondofthosetwo.

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thesecondoneisaboutthetimingof

3 afaxandIdon'trememberthedetails,butwecandeal

4 withthat.

5 Isthisobjectedto,MrPotts?

6 MRPOTTS:Therearetwopoints.Theanswerisyes.

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Theanswerisyes.I'llletMrStuart

8 continuethen.

9 Yes,MrStuart.

10 MRSTUART:ThetwoissuesarethescheduleatpageE15.

11 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,Irememberit.

12 MRSTUART:4334‐2.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:It'sthebonuses.

14 MRSTUART:Thebonuses,andthentheseconditemwasthe

15 sendingofthefax,13August2009.

16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:WheredoIfindit?

17 MRSTUART:YoufinditinE8,aroundabout2061.

18 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Roundabout?

19 MRSTUART:Thereisalittleseriesof‐‐MrPottsasked

20 MsBirdiaboutalittleseriesofdocuments.Ifyougo

21 to2062.{E/668/2062}


23 MRSTUART:YourLordshipmayrecallthatMsBirdimade

24 agrievance,whichis2063.{E/668.1/2063}


160

1 MRSTUART:Andonthediscloseddocumentatthetop,there

2 wasafaxheadersheet,showingadateof13August2009

3 at19.50intheevening.

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andmynotesaysthatthe01274numberis

5 herfaxmachine.That'sactuallytheoldnumbershehad

6 inYorkshirebutsheacceptedthatitcamefromher

7 machine.

8 MRSTUART:That'sright.AndMsBirdigaveevidencein

9 cross‐examinationaboutthisandsaidthat,lookingat

10 it,sherecognisedthedateandgaveevidenceaboutthe

11 faxnumber,andsaidshecouldn'trecallwhetheritwas

12 herorherhusbandwhosentthis.


14 MRSTUART:AndMrRehmanbeingherhusband,heistheman

15 whoisabletosay‐‐Idon'twanttopre‐judgematters,

16 butheisabletosaythathedidindeedsendit‐‐

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Okay.

18 MRSTUART:‐‐ratherthanher.Thereasonforthis,my

19 Lord,isthatthen,MrPottstookMsBirditopage2067.

20 {E/670/2067}


22 MRSTUART:Andcross‐examinedheratsomelengthabout

23 point1.DoesyourLordshipseeit?Underpoint1:

24 "IreceivedyourletterontheeveningofFriday,

25 14thAugustwhenIreturnedhome..."



161

1 DoesyourLordshipseethat?

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Iremember.Thepointbeingthatifshe

3 hadsentthefaxonthe13th,thatwouldsuggestthat

4 thatwasincorrect.

5 MRSTUART:Exactly.


7 MRSTUART:Andthatshemusthaveseenitonthe13that

8 thelatest.Itcouldonlyhavebeenthe13thbecause

9 yourLordshipwillrememberthatthedocumentthatthey

10 arereferringtois2048,whichwastheletterfrom

11 Specsaversenclosingnoticeofaboardmeeting;does

12 yourLordshiprememberthat?{E/662/2048}

13 Andthenoticeat2049{E/662.1/2049}wasactually

14 datedbySpecsaverson12August.So,althoughthe

15 letterisdated4August,page2048,itappearstohave

16 beensentonthe12th,receivedonthe13thby

17 MrRehman,faxedonthe13thintheeveningbyMrRehman

18 andthenthegrievancewasfaxedbyMrRehmanshortly

19 about45minuteslateronthe13th,andthusthe

20 explanationgivenonthe17th,onpage2067under

21 point1:

22 "IreceivedyourletterontheeveningofFriday,

23 the14th,whenIreturnedhome..."

24 Etcetera.


162

1 MRSTUART:AsIsay,MrPottsdidcross‐examineherat

2 lengthaboutthatandshedidsayinherevidencethat

3 shewasn'tsurewhetheritwashimorherhusband.

4 MRPOTTS:IhavetosayIdon'tbelievethatiswhat‐‐

5 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Youcanaddressmeinamoment,MrPotts.

6 Sothat'stheevidencethatyouwant‐‐

7 MRSTUART:Thosearetheonly‐‐

8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:‐‐tocallMrRehmantodealwith.

9 MRSTUART:‐‐todo.MyLord,thereisonepoint,whichis

10 thatjusttenminutesago,sojustaswewerehavingour

11 break,Iwashandedandmysolicitorshadgotholdofan

12 emailof13August‐‐


14 MRSTUART:‐‐fromMsBirditoMrRehmanat18.08.


16 MRSTUART:Itisaveryshortemail,twolines.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Ithasbeenputinmybundleat2061‐1.

18 MRSTUART:Ithasbeenputinyourbundle,2061‐1.Soit's

19 fairtosaythatMrPottshasnothadanopportunityto

20 considerthatdocumentuntilrightnow.


22 MRSTUART:AndIunderstandfromMrPottsthathis

23 objectiontojustgettingonanddealingwiththisnow

24 isthathewishestohavetheopportunitytoconsider

25 thatdocument.

163


2 MRSTUART:WhichItakeonboard.Myconcern/problemis

3 this:MrRehmanhimselfhashadtotakealotoftime

4 offworktobeavailable.Hehasdone‐‐youhaveseen

5 him,Isuspect,sittingbehindmeeverydayofthe

6 trial.


8 MRSTUART:Hedoesnothavetimeoffworknextweek;hehas

9 takenholidayfromhiswork.

10 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Whatabouttomorrow?

11 MRSTUART:Tomorrowheishere.

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Heiscomingtomorrow?

13 MRSTUART:Absolutely,andsoifyourLordshiptakesthe

14 viewthatitwouldbesensiblenottodealwiththisnow

15 buttodealwithitinthemorningat10.30,let'ssay,

16 thenIwouldcertainlynotopposethat,butIwould

17 oppose‐‐

18 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Youwouldopposeitgoingofftonext

19 week.

20 MRSTUART:‐‐itgoingofftonextweekafterMrDysonis

21 finished,MrDysonbeingthefirstofthe

22 respondent's‐‐

23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Iunderstand.

24 MrPotts,whatdoyouwanttosay?

25 MRPOTTS:Justthepracticalpoint,perhaps,ismore

164

1 useful.Imadethesuggestiontomylearnedfriendthat

2 firstly,Idowanttotakeinstructionsonadocument

3 thatIhaven'tseen.

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Understood.

5 MRPOTTS:ThesecondpointisIunderstandabout

6 MrRehman'sposition.MrDysonisalsoindifficulties

7 andwhatIsuggestedtohimislet'sgetonwith

8 MrDysonnowandwewillworryaboutMrRehmanlater.

9 Thequestion,ofcourse,iswhatislater.

10 MrDyson'sposition,myLord,soyouareaware‐‐

11 IthinkIhavementionedit‐‐ishehascomeoverfrom

12 Australia.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Idon'tthinkIdidknowthat,butheis

14 nowGlobalRetailDirector?

15 MRPOTTS:Heis,myLord.Hehasbeenhereforaverylong

16 timebecauseofthetrial‐‐

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Idon'tknowthedetailsofthetrial

18 beingputoff.I'mquitehappytoacceptthatit's

19 inconvenientforsomeoneinMrDyson'spositiontobe

20 kepthangingaroundmorethannecessary.Howlongare

21 weexpecting‐‐it'sreallyaquestionforMrStuart.

22 MrStuart,howlongareyouexpectingto

23 cross‐examineMrDysonfor?

24 MRSTUART:Heisinourschedule‐‐

25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Heisinyourschedulefor



165

1 cross‐examination/re‐examinationforoneafternoon.

2 MRSTUART:Forthreequartersofaday,sortofthing,is

3 whatheisintherefor.Ithinkarealisticestimate

4 thatIwillsticktoisaday.Soifwestartnow,we

5 willfinishhimwellintime.

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:WhatI'minclinedtosuggestisthatwe

7 dostarthimnow.

8 MRSTUART:Ofcourse.I'mreadytostarthimnow.

9 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andwefinishhimtomorrowandwewill

10 putMrRehmaninafterhim.Ifsomebodyhastooverrun,

11 itwillbeMrRehman,ratherthanMrDyson,ifyousee

12 whatImean.

13 MRSTUART:Understood,myLord.

14 MRPOTTS:MyLord,Ishouldsay,justtocompletethe

15 picture‐‐

16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:That'sthepracticalside.Doyouhave

17 anobjectioninprinciple?

18 MRPOTTS:CanIjustdealwiththepracticalside,myLord?

19 Thereasonforthatismyfriend‐‐wehavehadsome

20 discussions.Ofcourse,it'snotapromisebuthehad

21 givenmeindicationsthatMrDysonwouldbeoutby

22 Friday.HehasaflightbookedforSaturdaymorning.

23 So,inrelationtoMrDyson,Iwonder,myLord,justto

24 help,whetherwemightsitperhapsalittlebitlater

25 thisevening,maybeevenstartalittlebitearlier

166

1 tomorrowmorning.

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thiseveningisdifficultforme.

3 MRPOTTS:Imeanttosay,ofcourse,subjecttoyour

4 Lordship.

5 MRJUSTICENUGEE:ButI'mquitehappytositat10o'clock

6 tomorrow,ifthatwouldassist.

7 MRPOTTS:Thatmightassist.Inrelationtotheissuein

8 termsofobjections,perhaps‐‐Ithinkitisalittle

9 premature.PerhapscouldIhavealookatthedocument

10 firstandthenwewillsee?


12 MRPOTTS:Wouldthatbeasensiblething,sowecangeton

13 withMrDysonnow?

14 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Ishouldsay,ofcourseI'lllisten

15 toanythingyouwanttosaybutinprinciple,if

16 somebodywantstodealwithamatterthathascomeupin

17 cross‐examination,Iwouldneedsomepersuadingtoshut

18 themoutfromdoingso.

19 MRPOTTS:IunderstandyourLordship'spoint.Your

20 Lordshiphasn'tinfactbeenshowntherelevant

21 provisionsoftheCPRwhichgovernthisoranyofthat.

22 MRJUSTICENUGEE:No,noneofthat.Iknow,buttherewe

23 are.

24 Verywell.Let'scontinuewithMrDyson.I'llsit

25 until4.30butnolatertodayandI'llsitagainat

167

1 10o'clocktomorrow.

2 MRDEREKDYSON(affirmed)

3 Examination‐in‐chiefbyMRPOTTS

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Do,please,sitdown,MrDyson.

5 MRPOTTS:MrDyson,couldyouhavevolumeC,please.Could

6 you,please,turnuptab9,please.Page86{C/9/86}

7 andthenrunningthroughtopage118.Isthisyour

8 firststatementinthismatter?

9 A.Yes,itis.

10 Q.CouldIaskyoutoturn,please,topage93{C/9/93}and

11 atparagraph30.2Iunderstandthatyouhave

12 aclarificationinrelationtothefinalsentenceof

13 thatparagraph.Isthatcorrect?

14 A.Ido,yes.

15 Q.AreyouabletotellhisLordshipwhatthatis?

16 A.Yes,thisstatementhereappliesfromMay2011.The

17 number40iscorrectinMay2000,butpriortothatthe

18 numberwas£70,000forallstoresandthatwasachange

19 inMay2011.

20 MRSTUART:I'msorry,Ithinktheremaybeanissueonthe

21 transcript,possibly‐‐

22 MRJUSTICENUGEE:WhatIhavewrittendownisthat's

23 arequirementfromMay2011.

24 A.Yes.

25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andbeforethat‐‐

168

1 A.Itwas£70,000forallstores.2 MRPOTTS:Ithinkthetranscripthas"old"stores;Ithink3 itis"all".4 Subjecttothatclarification‐‐firstly,Ishould5 sayatpage118,isthatyoursignature?6 A.Itis,yes.7 Q.Subjecttothatclarification,arethecontentsofthat8 statementtrue?9 A.We'vegotonemoreon‐‐

10 Q.Sorry,thereisonemore.I'msorry,paragraph116.11 Youhaveacorrectioninrelationto‐‐{C/9/115}12 A.Yes,intheline‐‐attheendofthatparagraphitsays13 "September2011".14 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.15 A.Thatshouldsay"July2011".16 MRPOTTS:Subjecttothosetwomatters‐‐17 A.‐‐itiscorrect.18 Q.Thankyou.Couldyouturnon,please,tothenexttab.19 Pages119throughto126.{C/10/119}20 Isthatyoursecondstatementinthismatter?21 A.Itis.22 Q.Isthatyoursignatureon126?{C/10/126}23 A.Itis.24 Q.Canyouconfirmthatthecontentsofthatstatementare25 true?



169

1 A.Thereisanamendmenton33.{C/10/124}

2 Q.I'msorry,yes.Istheamendmentinrelationtosomeof

3 thebonuses?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.Thecompletelist.Isthatcorrect?

6 A.Itis,yes.

7 MRPOTTS:ThiswillbedifficulttodoI'mafraidwithout

8 someleading;Ihopemyfriendwillnotobject?

9 MRSTUART:Idon'tmind,myLord,that'sfine.

10 MRPOTTS:CouldIpassupacopyofourskeletonargument,

11 whichhasalistofallthebonuses.(Handed)It's

12 paragraph209.Doyouhavethat?

13 Anumberofthesearelistedinparagraph33.Can

14 Ijusttellyoutherearesomewhicharenotlisted,

15 whichareintheskeleton,whicharenotinyourwitness

16 statement.Isitthethirdoneonthelist?

17 A.Itis,yes.

18 Q.Theseventh,theeighth,theninthandthetenth.Is

19 thatcorrect?

20 A.That'scorrect.

21 Q.Subjecttothataddition,canyouconfirmthatthe

22 contentsofthisstatementaretrue?

23 A.Theyare.

24 Q.Andthenifyouturnoninthebundletotab18,

25 page183throughto191.Isthatyourthirdwitness

170

1 statement?{C/18/183}

2 A.Itis,yes.

3 Q.Isthatyoursignatureattheend?

4 A.Itis.

5 Q.Andarethecontentsofthatstatementtrue?

6 A.Theyaretrue.

7 MRPOTTS:Thankyou.


9 MRSTUART:MrDyson,helloagain.Wereyouhereyesterday?

10 A.Notformostoftheday,no.

11 Q.Soyoudidn'thearMrsFrondigoun'sevidence?

12 A.No.

13 Q.Haveyoureadit?

14 A.No.

15 Q.Allright.Couldyoubepassedthetranscriptbundle?

16 Inyourwitnessstatementatparagraph13‐‐

17 A.Thefirstwitnessstatement?

18 Q.Yes,I'mgoingtodealwithyourwitnessstatementsin

19 order.Yourfirstwitness,canItakeyoutothat.

20 Page89ofthebundle,tab9,paragraph13.{C/9/89}

21 A.Page89,yes.

22 Q.Atparagraph13yougiveanoverviewofyourremitand

23 thesub‐departments.Doyouhavethat?

24 A.Thisisat‐‐sorry,whatnumber?

25 Q.Sounderparagraph13,youhavegotsubparagraphs13.1,

171

1 13‐‐

2 A.I'mthere,yes.

3 Q.Youhavegotit.Whatyouexplainin13is:

4 "Becauseoftheimportanceof[Specsavers']

5 reputation..."

6 "Reputation",doyouseethat?

7 A.Yes.

8 Q.YouhavegotthesedepartmentswhoareassistingSOGand

9 to:

10 "...protectthe'Specsavers'brand'."

11 Asyouputitthere.Doyouseethat?

12 A.Ido.

13 Q.AndoneofthosethatyouareinchargeofistheLoss

14 PreventionandAuditDepartment,13.3?

15 A.Correct.

16 Q.Andthat'sobviouslyMrMcAlindon?

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.Andhereportsdirectlytoyou?

19 A.Hedoes,yes.

20 Q.AndyouputthatthepurposeoftheLossPreventionand

21 Auditdepartmentistaskedwith:

22 "...managingriskandensuringcompliancewiththe

23 respectivestorecompany'sshareholders'agreementand

24 requirementssetdownbyvariousregulatorybodies..."

25 Etcetera.

172

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.Andifwejustgobacktoparagraphs4and5,your

3 summarysection,whichsummarisesyourentirecasehere,

4 {C/9/87}yousummariseat4thatMsBirdiisalleging

5 thatsinceearly2007,SOGwasactingoutofmalice

6 and/oranimproperdesiretoremoveher.Doyousee

7 that?

8 A.Ido.

9 Q.Andat5yousay:

10 "Thatallegationisentirelyuntrue."

11 A.Ido.

12 Q.Andyousay:

13 "ThetruepositionisthatSOGhasatalltimes

14 soughttoacttowardsMsBirdiinafairandunbiased

15 manner..."

16 A.Correct.

17 Q.DidyouhearMrsFrondigoun‐‐youdidn'thear

18 MrsFrondigoun'sevidence,buthasitbeenreportedto

19 youwhatMrsFrondigounsaidyesterday?

20 A.Notindetail,no.

21 Q.Allright.Gototab5inthetranscriptbundle.We

22 pickitupatpage‐‐doyourememberthesefromthe

23 lasttrial?Wegetfourpagesonapage?

24 A.Yes,Ido.

25 Q.Doyouremember?Andsoforthepaginationnumberyou



173

1 havetolookwithinthepage.Ifyoucangotothe

2 numberthatispage162?{Day5/162:1}

3 A.Sorry,Iamlost.

4 Q.Onthepage,therearefourpagesoftranscript.

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.Undereachpage,sofourtimes‐‐

7 A.Sorry,Ihavegotthosenumbersinthemiddleofthe

8 page?

9 Q.That'sright.

10 A.Right,I'mlookingfornumber...

11 Q.Youarelookingforpages161,162,163,164.Theyare

12 allonthesamepageoftranscript.

13 A.161Ihavegot,yes.

14 Q.Great.Sotobeclear,thiswasMrsFrondigoun,whowas

15 awitness‐‐LorraineFrondigoun,whoseevidencewasput

16 forwardbywayofhearsaynotices.Doyouremember?

17 A.Idon'tunderstandhearsaynotices.

18 Q.Okay.Soratherthancallherasawitnessbywayof

19 awitnessstatement,likeyouhavedonethere?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Specsavers,therespondentsinthiscase,decidedto

22 servewhat'scalledahearsaynoticeinrespectofher

23 evidence,sayingthatwhatwascontainedinher

24 interviewwithMrMcAlindonwastheevidenceofhers

25 thatSpecsaverswishedtorelyuponinthistrial.Do

174

1 youunderstand?

2 A.Right.

3 Q.SoshewasinterviewedbyMrMcAlindonbackin2007.

4 A.Okay.

5 Q.Nodoubtyourecallthatbecauseitformspartofyour

6 evidenceinyourwitnessstatement?

7 A.Canyoutakemetothatinmywitnessstatement?

8 Q.Iwill;whenwegetthere,Iwilltakeyoutoit.

9 A.Okay.

10 Q.Isitthepositionthatasyousitherenow,youdon't

11 evenrecallthatMrsFrondigoun'sevidenceformedpart

12 of‐‐

13 A.Idorememberthat.

14 Q.Good.Youknowthecontextthatwearetalkingabout.

15 MrMcAlindonwasinterviewingMrsFrondigouninrelation

16 totheinvestigationagainstMsBirdi.Doyourecall?

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.NotinrelationtotheinvestigationagainstMrPatel,

19 butinrelationtotheinvestigationof,shallwesay,

20 PAYEissuesandthelike,againstMsBirdiin2007?

21 A.Correct.

22 Q.Allright.Ifyougotopage162,rightatthebottom,

23 left‐handsidecolumn,rightatthebottom.Doyousee

24 that?

25 A.Yes.

175

1 Q.Iaskedthequestionsandshegivestheanswers.So"Q"2 isme,"A"isher.Doyouunderstand?3 A.Ido.4 Q.SoIasked‐‐thisisline25ofpage162.{Day5/162:25}5 "Question:Now,theinterviewthen.Weseeit6 there.Itlasted,accordingtotherecord,twohours207 minutes?"8 Doyouseethat?9 A.Yes.

10 "Answer:Itjustlastedsomuchlongerthanthat."11 Atline7shesaid:{Day5/163:7}12 "Answer:Themachinewasturnedon,itwasturned13 off,itwasturnedon,itwasturnedoff.Itwasabout14 fourhours."15 Line9:{Day5/163:9}16 "Question:Whenyousaythemachine,whatwasthe17 machine?Howwasherecordingthis?18 "Answer:Thisthinghejusthad,Ididn'ttake19 alotofnoticeofit.Hetoldmeitwasbeingrecorded20 andthatwasfineandthenhe‐‐21 "Question:Butrecorded,what,likeatape22 recorder‐typething.23 "Answer:Yes,kindofanoldy‐fashionedykindof24 thing.Itwas‐‐Ihonestlydidn'ttakealotofnotice25 ofitbutIknowhekeptstoppingitandthenhekept

176

1 saying‐‐2 "Question:Sayingthingstoyou?3 "Answer:‐‐variousthings,yes,pushing‐‐4 "Question:Whichweresortofoffthemachine?5 "Answer:Pushingandpushingandpushing.6 "Question:Andthenhewouldputitbackonto7 recordandthenforashortwhile,whatyouweresaying8 wouldbeontherecord,asitwere,onrecord?9 "Answer:Yes.

10 "Question:Andthenhewouldturnitoffagainfor11 awhile?12 "Answer:Yes.13 "Question:Andhewoulddiscussthingswithyounot14 ontherecord?15 "Answer:That'sright.SobythetimeIgottothe16 end,Itrulydidn'tknowifitwasonoroff."17 Doyouseethat?18 A.Ido,yes.19 Q.Didyouknowthis?Didyouknowthiswashow20 MrMcAlindonworked?21 A.AreyousuggestingthatIunderstandthatthisistrue?22 Idon'tknowwhetherthisistrueornot.23 Q.ThisisunchallengedevidencefromMrsFrondigoun.24 MRPOTTS:MyLord,I'mnotsurethat'sfair.25 MRSTUART:Yes,itis.



177

1 A.Ican'tcommentonthisbecauseIwantthere.

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Itmaynotbefair.Idon'tthinkit's

3 acceptedinthelightofotherthings.

4 MRSTUART:Ihaven'ttakenhimtotherestoftheevidence

5 yet.

6 I'mnotaskingyoutoacceptanything.I'mtaking

7 youtotheevidenceinthiscasefromMrsFrondigoun;do

8 youunderstand?

9 A.Yes.

10 MRPOTTS:I'msorry,whenIsay"fair",thepointis,itis

11 challenged.Thatisevidencethat‐‐

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Youdon'tacceptthattheevidenceis

13 accurate.

14 MRPOTTS:Idon'tacceptthat,no.

15 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,that'sratherwhatIsuspected.

16 MRSTUART:YourLordshipsuspectsit.Noapplicationwas

17 madebyMrPottstotreatthewitnessashostileand

18 cross‐examineheraboutitorchallengeanyofthat

19 evidence.Hisre‐examinationlasted‐‐wehavegotit

20 inhere‐‐aboutfiveminutesandIdon'tacceptthat

21 thisis‐‐

22 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Idon'tthinkIamgoingtohaveadebate

23 aboutitnow.

24 MRSTUART:No,understood,myLord,Idon'twantadebate.

25 Ifyouflickdowntoline17,wearedealingwith

178

1 theactualdocument.{Day5/164:17}2 "Question:Didheproducethistoyouattheendof3 the‐‐4 "Answer:No.5 "Question:Whendidheproduceittoyou?6 "Answer:Abouttwodayslater,Ithink.7 "Question:Twodayslater.Sowhathemusthave8 beendoingthenwashewasrecordingsomeofyour9 answersandthenhewasgoingtotakethatrecording

10 away,turnitintoatranscriptoftheinterviewandget11 youtosignthatasatranscriptoftheinterview.12 Becausehewasn'ttakingmanuscriptnotesandhedidn't13 havesomeonesittingnexttohimtappingaway,making14 anysortoftranscriptofwhatyouweresaying?15 "Answer:No.16 "Question:Sothat'stheonlywayhecouldhave17 generatedthisdocument?18 "Answer:Yes."19 Godowntopage166,line16.{Day5/166:16}20 "Question:Okay.So,youthinktheinterview21 lastedanawfullotlongerthantwohours?22 "Answer:Iknowitdid,yes.23 "Question:Youknowitdid,absolutely?24 MRJUSTICENUGEE:"Howlongdoyouthinkittook?25 "Answer:Aboutfourhours."

179

1 Doyouseethat?2 A.Ido.3 Q.Andthenovertopage167atline16:{Day5/167:16}4 "Question:Sothatmeansthatonyourversion,5 there'saboutthreeandthreequarterhours'worthof6 speakingwhichisnotinhere?7 "Answer:Hm‐mm.8 "Question:Whenyouwereaskedtosignthistwo9 dayslater,didyounotfeelabituncomfortableabout

10 that?11 "Answer:Yes,definitely.12 "Question:Didyoutellhimthat?13 "Answer:IkindofreallythoughtIhavebeen14 caught‐‐notcaught,it'sthewrongword.Ihave15 fallenintoatraphere,butwhatdoIdo?It'son16 atape."17 Page168,line8.{Day5/168:8}Doyouseethat,18 line8?19 "Answer:Hecontinuallypushed.Startedout,'Tell20 meanythingyoucanthinkof'.Turnitoff.Hesaid,21 'Sheisarealbitch,isn'tshe?'"22 Doyouseethat,MrDyson?23 A.Yes,I'mjustreadingitincontext.24 Q.Okay.Justtogiveyouthecontext,thisis25 MrsFrondigoun,anemployeeattheDartfordstore,

180

1 sayingthatMrMcAlindon,inhisinterview,wherehewas2 interviewingherasawitnessregardingMsBirdi's3 issuesthatshewasbeingdisciplinedfor,said:4 "She..."5 ThatisMsBirdi:6 "...isarealbitch,isn'tshe?7 "Question:Hesaidthattoyou?8 "Answer:Yes.9 "Question:Wasthathisopeningcomment?

10 "Answer:No,thefirstcoupleofpagesitkindof11 wentokayandthenhesaidthat,'Sheisarealbitch',12 and,'ThatNimseemedlikequiteaniceguytome'."13 Sothecontext,MrDyson,isthatyourheadof14 investigationdepartmentissayingtoanemployeeofthe15 store,inaprivateinterview,whereonlythetwoof16 themarepresentandheisnottaperecordingpartsof17 it‐‐heissayingtothatemployeethatMsBirdiis18 abitch,arealbitch,andthatMrNimeshPatel,who19 aboutsixweeksearlierhadadmittedtotheftfromthe20 store,hesaysofhim,"Heseemedlikequiteaniceguy21 tome".22 WereyouawarethatMrMcAlindonheldtheseviews?23 A.Well,I'mnotawarethatanyofthisactuallywenton.24 Sothisis‐‐it'ssomebodywhowasgivingevidence25 yesterdaytothecourtand‐‐



181

1 Q.I'maskingyoutogiveyourevidence.2 A.‐‐and‐‐and‐‐3 Q.WereyouawarethatMrMcAlindonheldtheseviews?4 A.Andwhatdoesshemeanbythefirstcoupleofpages?5 Q.Thefirstcoupleofpagesoftheinterview,alleged6 interviewrecord,producedbyMrMcAlindon.7 A.Andthisis‐‐sorry,Ineedtogetthecontextofwhere8 thequestioningisandwhy‐‐wehavebeentalkingabout9 recordingsandnowwearetalkingaboutpages.Idon't

10 understand.11 Q.I'mnotreallyaskingyouaboutthatbutifthat'swhat12 youwanttodo,wecangothere.13 Whathappenedwas,accordingtoMrsFrondigoun,14 aneight‐pagerecordoftheinterviewwastypedby15 MrMcAlindoninthetwodaysfollowingtheinterview.16 Thatisthedocumentthatwasrelieduponunderthe17 hearsaynotice.18 Whatsheissayingisthattheinterviewactually19 lastedfourhoursandthathekeptonturning‐‐she20 usedherfinger‐‐hekeptonturningonandoffthe21 recordingdeviceandonlyrecordedsomepartsofher22 answersanddidn'trecordalloftheconversationthat23 theyhad,forthreeandthreequarterofthehoursof24 thefour‐hourinterview,andshewassayingthatduring25 theperiodthathewasnotrecording,hewassaying

182

1 thingstoherwhichincluded,aboutSwarandeepBirdi:

2 "Sheisarealbitch,isn'tshe?"

3 Thenhesaid:

4 "Sheisarealbitch."

5 A.Ican'tcommentonthat.Iwasn'tthere.SoI'mnot

6 surewhyyouareaskingmethis.Imean,Idon't

7 recognisethatweusedrecordingequipmentanyway.And

8 Idon'trecognisethe‐‐youknow,hecontinuallypushed

9 somethingonandoff.Idon'trecognisethatthatis

10 thewaythatwewouldtakestatements.Theyaretaken

11 contemporaneouslyandtheyaretakenbytheuseof

12 alaptop.

13 Q.IntheUckfieldmatter,therewasarecordingdone.Do

14 yourememberthat?

15 A.Yes,fortheUckfield,yes.

16 Q.Yes,itwasaroundthesametime,wasn'tit?

17 A.Idon'tknow.

18 Q.MrMcAlindonusedarecordingdevice?

19 A.Idon'tknowifit'saroundthesametimeornot.

20 Q.Okay.Sohedidhavearecordingdeviceavailable,

21 didn'the,MrMcAlindon,toyourknowledge,fromthe

22 Uckfieldtrial?

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.Soyourevidencejustthen,"Wedidn'thavearecording

25 device",that'snotquiteright,isit?

183

1 A.I'mnotsureIsaidwedidn'thaveit;IsaidIwas2 unaware.3 Q.Okay.4 A.So,sorry,whatwasyourquestion,MrStuart?Ihave5 lostthequestion.6 Q.Myquestionis:wereyouawarethatMrMcAlindonheld7 theviewthatMsBirdiwasabitch,arealbitch?8 A.No,becausethat'snotwhatMrMcAlindon'ssaying,this.9 Thisissomebodyelsesayingit.

10 Q.Wehaven'theardfromMrMcAlindonyet.11 A.No,well,Ihaven't,either.12 Q.No.13 A.SoI'mansweringthequestionthatyouaskedme.14 Ican'tcommentonwhatthisladyissaying.Iwasn't15 thereandyouaskedme,didIthinkordidIknowhe16 heldthatopinion.No,Ididn't.Butthatdoesn'tmean17 tosaythatIagreethathedoesholdthatopinion.18 Q.Ididn'tsaythatyouagreed,didI?Iaskedwhether19 youknewthatheheldthatopinion?20 A.No.21 Q.Ifhedidholdthatopinion‐‐Iknowit's22 ahypotheticalbecauseyouweren'tthere,butifhedid23 holdtheopinionthatshewasabitch,arealbitch,24 wouldthatbeacceptable?25 A.No.

184

1 Q.Areweinthesamecircumstanceswewereinthelast

2 trial:

3 "Canwediscussouractionplantowipethiswoman

4 offthefaceoftheearth."

5 Doyourememberthat?

6 A.WhereamIreadingthat?

7 Q.Youarenotreadingit.IwilltakeyoutoitifIneed

8 tobut,Iwouldhavethoughtyoucouldrecallit.

9 MRPOTTS:MyLord,ifmyfriendisgoingtoseektolead

10 evidencefromthelasttrial,hewillneedtomakean

11 applicationinrelationtothatintermsofwideningout

12 theevidence.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Ithinkheisentitledtocross‐examine.

14 MRSTUART:I'lltellyouwhat.I'mreadingfromMrDyson's

15 evidenceinthelasttrial.So,IaskedMrDyson

16 afairlyblandquestion.Iwouldhavethoughtthat

17 MrDysonwouldhavetheabilitytorecallit.Can

18 Ipassyouthose.

19 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,Ihavesaidthatyouare

20 entitledtocross‐examinebutIdon'twantthistrialto

21 turnintoaninvestigationofwhathappenedinanother

22 trial.

23 MRSTUART:Absolutelynot,myLord.I'mnotgoingthereat

24 all.Thisistheonlyreferencetothelasttrialand

25 I'monlyreferringtoMrDyson'sevidenceinthelast



185

1 trialandI'monlyreferringtotheverysamekindof2 thingthatishappeninghere.3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Soyousay;yes.4 MRSTUART:SoIsay.(Handed)5 Thereisacopyforyouandacopyforyou,myLord.6 Thisisthetranscriptfromthelasttrial,MrDyson,7 12December2013.I'maskingthequestions;youare8 givingtheanswers.9 A.Okay.

10 Q.Page68atthebottomright‐handcorner?11 A.Yes.12 Q.Youmayrecallfromthelasttrialthattherewasan13 issueaboutMrRoweandMrsSusannahHartexchanging14 emailcomments,whichincluded‐‐Iquotedittoyou:15 "Doyouseeatthetopthisisherattitude?"16 A.Iunderstandthat.Ithoughtyouweresayingthat17 MrMcAlindonhadmadethesecomments.Ihadn't18 understoodthatyouwerenowtalkingabout19 MsSusannahHart.20 Q.I'mtalkingabouttheRowetoHartexchange?21 A.ButIdidn'tknowthatwhenyouwereaskingthe22 question.23 Q.Fine.Doyounowrecall‐‐24 A.Idorecall.25 Q.‐‐thatitcameoutduringthelasttrialthatmembers

186

1 ofyourstaffinyourreportinglines,including2 MrRowe,exchangedemailcorrespondencewhich3 included‐‐thisisjustanexample;I'monlygoingto4 taketheoneexamplefornow‐‐wheretheyreferredto5 aJVpartner,inthiscaseitwasDrHellyPoulson(?).6 Theyreferredtoherinadocumentandsaid:7 "Canwediscussouractionplantowipethiswoman8 offthefaceoftheearth?"9 Doyouseethat?

10 A.Ido,butthisisnotMrRowe'scomments;thisis11 SusannahHart'scomments.12 Q.That'sright,toMrRowe?13 A.YoudidsayMrRowe,that'swhyI'mconfused.So,yes,14 IacceptthatthatwaspartofaemailandIalsosaid15 itwasinappropriateandIwasn'tawareofit.16 Q.Okay.Peoplewithinyourteamholdviewsaboutthe17 JVpartners,theSpecsaversJVpartners,whichisnot18 consistentwithyourevidenceatvariousparagraphsof19 yourstatement;I'lltaketoyoutheminamoment.20 ThatyoushouldbesupportingthoseJVpartners?21 That'sright,isn'tit?Somepeopleinyourteam‐‐22 A.Absolutely,I'mpassionateaboutthat,yes.23 Q.Youare.Isaysomepeopleinyourteamholddifferent24 viewsaboutsomeJVpartners?25 A.Clearly,theyhaveexpressedtheirviewsinemails.

187

1 Q.Yes.IfhisLordshipfindsthatMrMcAlindonexpressed2 theviewtoaSpecsaversemployee,MrsFrondigoun,in3 referencetoMsBirdi,"Sheisarealbitch",doyou4 agreethatthatwouldbewhollyinappropriateand5 MrMcAlindonshouldbesubjecttoseriousdisciplinary6 action?7 A.Ifheheldthatviewandthatwastrue,thenIwould8 agreewiththat,yes.9 Q.Whataboutifhedidn'tholdtheviewbuthesaiditto

10 MrsFrondigountogethertoholdthatview?11 A.I'mnotquitesureIfollowwhere‐‐whereareyou12 going,MrStuart?13 Q.YousaidifheheldtheviewthatSwarandeepBirdiwas14 abitch,thatwouldbewhollyinappropriateandhewould15 havetobedisciplined?16 A.No,andsaidit.17 Q.ThatwaswhatIjustaskedyou?18 A.Andifhesaidthat.Holdingtheviewandsayingitare19 twodifferentthings.20 Q.Exactly.That'swhatIjustaskedyou,MrDyson.Soif21 hesaidthattoMrsFrondigoun‐‐22 A.Yes.23 Q.‐‐evenifhedidn'tpersonallybelieveit,buthesaid24 ittoher,duringthisinterview,ifhedidsayitto25 her,wouldthatbewhollyinappropriateandcauseto

188

1 disciplinehimseriously?2 A.It'sahypotheticalquestion.Iamstrugglingwith3 whereyouaregoingwithit,butIgetthegistthat‐‐4 Q.Don'tworryaboutwhereI'mgoingwithit.It's5 asimplequestion.Therewasevidencegiveninthat6 verywitnessbox‐‐7 A.Ihavereadthat.8 Q.‐‐underoathyesterdaybyamemberofwhatusedtobe9 Specsaversstaff,andindeedherevidenceisevidence

10 relieduponbyMrMcAlindonandthenbyyou.Soshe11 saidyesterdayonoaththatthatiswhatMrMcAlindon12 saidtoher.Allright?13 A.Okay.14 Q.It'snotahypothetical,asyousay,butIhaveasked15 youahypotheticalquestioninthesenseof:ifhedid16 saythat‐‐17 A.Yes.18 Q.‐‐wouldthatbewhollyinappropriateconductby19 MrMcAlindon?20 A.Itwouldbe.21 Q.Good.Woulditbeafairandunbiasedmanneronthe22 partofMrMcAlindon‐‐23 A.Unbiasedasto‐‐24 Q.‐‐inrelationtothisinvestigation?25 A.Ifitweretrue,yes.



189

1 Q.Doyoumeanthat?Ifitweretrue,itwouldbefairand

2 unbiasedforhimtohavedonethat?

3 A.No,itwouldbeunbiased.

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Ithinkyoumaybeatcrosspurposes.

5 A.Yes.

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Let'sassume‐‐youcan'tsayit

7 becauseyouweren'ttherebutlet'sassumethat

8 MrMcAlindondidsaywhatMrsFrondigounsaidthathe

9 said.

10 A.Yes.

11 MRJUSTICENUGEE:WhatcounselIthinkisaskingyouis

12 whetherinthatcaseitwouldbeafairandunbiased

13 way/mannertoconductaninvestigation.

14 A.No.


16 MRSTUART:Allright.Let'sleaveasidethe"bitch"

17 comment.WhataboutthedescriptionofNimeshPateland

18 tryingtoexpresstothewitnessthatactually,

19 NimeshPatelwasquiteaniceguy?

20 Ifthathappened‐‐andyouweren'tthere,so

21 thereforeyoucan'tsay,butifthatdidhappenandhe

22 wassayingtothewitness,MrsFrondigoun,aspartof

23 theinvestigationinterviewthathefeltthat

24 NimeshPatelwasquiteaniceguyincontrasttothe

25 realbitch,SwarandeepBirdi‐‐

190

1 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,Ithinkyououghttobemore

2 preciseandusethelanguagethewitnessused,whichis

3 that:

4 "Nimseemedlikequiteaniceguytome."

5 Potentially,morethanonemeaningcouldbeattached

6 toit.

7 MRSTUART:Yes.Ifheusedthatlanguagethathehas

8 writtenthere‐‐Iwon'tfallfoulofit;doyousee

9 thatatlines14to16?{Day5/167:14}

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.That'swhatMrsFrondigounsaysthatMrMcAlindonsaid

12 aboutSwarandeepBirdiandMrPatel.

13 WouldthatcommentaboutMrPatelbeimproper?

14 A.Improperfromthewaythatheistryinginsomewayto

15 manipulatesomething?

16 Q.Yes.

17 A.Ifthatwastheintentionanditwastrue,then,yes.

18 Q.Thatwouldbeimproper?

19 A.Ifitwasasitisdescribedhere,yes.

20 Q.Thankyou.Ifwegoonandleaveasidetheepithetsand

21 weturntothewayMrMcAlindonconductedthis

22 interview,doyouseeline21onpage168?

23 {Day5/168/21}

24 Basically,what'sinhereiswhatMrMcAlindonwants

25 tobeinhere?

191

1 A.Sorry,whereamInow,MrStuart?2 MRSTUART:Sorry,page168.3 A.168,yes.4 Q.JustacoupleoflinesdownfromwhereIwasjust5 amomentago.Ishouldhavemadethatclear.6 A.Okay.7 Q.Line21:{Day5/168:21}8 "Question:Idounderstand.Sobasically,what's9 inhere..."

10 Tobeclear,thecontext‐‐wearereferringtothis11 interviewnote:12 "Question:...what'sinhereiswhatMrMcAlindon13 wantstobeinhere?14 "Answer:Yes.15 "Question:Thatisthesumtotalofyourevidence,16 isit?"17 Thenoverthepage,page169,line6.Doyousee18 line6?{Day5/169:6}19 A.Yes.20 Q.ThisiswhatMrsFrondigounsaid:21 "Answer:Yes,becauseIreallydidn'tfeelIhad22 anychoice.IknewwhathappenedandsoIsignedit23 becauseitwasonrecordingandIcouldn'tsayIdidn't24 sayit.Ithasbeenrecorded.25 "Question:That'sright.

192

1 "Answer:Butthewholeafternoonofwhathappened

2 hasnotbeenrecorded.

3 "Question:No.Hehas,inyourwords‐‐Ithink

4 youusedthewords‐‐he'slightlytricked'youinto

5 this,hasn'the?

6 "Answer:Yes."

7 Doyouseethat?

8 A.Ido.

9 Q.IfMrMcAlindontrickedthewitnessintosigningwhat

10 purportedtobetherecordofaninterviewbutwas

11 actuallyonlytherecordofsomesmallpartofthe

12 interview,ifhediddothat‐‐andIknowit's

13 ahypothetical?

14 A.Hypothetically.

15 Q.Ifhediddothat,wouldthatbeconductingthe

16 interviewinafairandunbiasedmanner?

17 A.Notifyouaretrickingsomebody,inahypotheticalway.

18 Q.Page171.Doyouseepage171?

19 A.Yes,Ihavegotit.

20 Q.Line10:{Day5/171:10}

21 "Question:Justtakenoutofcontext,youranswer,

22 'Oh,no,never',hasbeensaidtobeyougivingsworn

23 evidencethatheneverworkedinthestore?"

24 Justsoyouhavethecontext,the"he"is

25 MrMushtaqRehman,whoisMrMsBirdi'shusband.Okay?



193

1 A.Ihaven'tgotthat,butit'snoweasier,now

2 Iunderstandyouhavesaidthat.Sojusttotakethat

3 intothecontext...

4 Q.Wearetalkingnowabout‐‐

5 A.Sorry,IneedtoreadfromabovedownsoIcangetthe

6 context.(Pause)

7 Q.Yes.Okay,soMrRehmanwasbeingdiscussed?

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.TherewasanissueaboutwhetherMrRehmandidordidn't

10 workasanemployeeofDartford,andcertainanswershad

11 beenrecordedonMrMcAlindon'sversionofthe

12 transcriptoftheinterview.

13 Sothequestionwas:

14 "Justtakenoutofcontext,youranswer..."

15 SothatisMrsFrondigoun'sanswer:{Day5/171:10}

16 "...'Oh,no,never',hasbeensaidtobeyougiving

17 swornevidencethatheneverworkedinthestore?

18 "Answer:No‐‐

19 "Question:That'snotright,isit?

20 "Answer:No,becauseIhadalreadysaidinthe

21 previousanswer,IthinkwhenIfirststartedherehe

22 cameinoccasionally.Andhedidmyinterview."

23 Doyouseethat?

24 A.Ido.

25 Q.Andthenpage172,line1:{Day5/172:1}

194

1 "Question:Atthattime.Thisisanotherthing2 Iwanttocomeonto.ItmaybethatMrMcAlindonhas3 ledyou‐‐misledyou‐‐"4 A.Sorry,Ididn'tgetthelinethatyouareon.5 Q.Line1.6 A.Line1,okay.7 Q.170.8 A.Yes,gotit:9 Q."Question:ItmaybethatMrMcAlindonhasledyou‐‐

10 misledyou‐‐intomisunderstandingwhatperiodoftime11 wearetalkingabout.12 "Answer:Yes,maybe."13 Doyouseethat?14 A.Yes.15 Q.Andthenoverthepageatpage173,line13:16 {Day5/173:13}17 "Question:Wewillcomebacktothatinamoment.18 Theeffectofyourevidenceis,todealwiththat19 period,asifMrMcAlindonledyoutobelievethathe20 wasbeingpaidasalaryoverthatperiodoftime.Is21 thatwhatMrMcAlindonheldyoutobelieve?22 "Answer:Yes."23 Doyouseethat?24 A.Yes.25 Q.That'sinreferencetoaperiodoftimereferredtoat

195

1 line5,from2003toJuly2006.Doyouseethat?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Andthen,page174,line5.{Day5/174:5}4 "Question:He'sapharmacistetcetera,etcetera.5 Soit'sonlyfromthatpointonwards,July2006‐‐and6 whenyouwereinterviewed‐‐well,youstoppedworking7 inMarch2007whenhiswifegotsuspended.Soit'sjust8 forthatlittleperiodthatit'sactuallybeing9 suggestedthathewaspaidasalary.Doyounow

10 understandthat?11 "Answer:Yes.12 "Question:Whenyouansweredthesequestionsto13 MrMcAlindononthetape,didyouunderstandthat?14 "Answer:No,Idon'tthinkIdid.Heshowedme15 variousthings,peoplethat‐‐allsortsofthings,'Did16 youknowthis,didyouknowthat?'AsIsaid..."17 Doyouseethat?18 A.Ido,butshedoessay:19 "Idon'tthinkIdid."20 Shedoesn'tsay"Idid".21 Q.No,quiteright.IfMrMcAlindoninhisinterview22 misledthewitnessintomisunderstandingwhatthe23 allegationswereandwhatheranswerswereattaching24 to‐‐andIknowit'sahypothetical‐‐butifhedid25 misleadherintothat,wouldthatbefairandunbiased

196

1 interviewingandinvestigationbyMrMcAlindon?2 A.Ifthatwasthecaseinthehypotheticalsituation,3 then,yes.4 Q.Doyoumean,no,itwouldn'tbefairandunbiased?5 A.Correct.6 Q.Justacouplemore.Ifyoujustspinonoverthepages7 topage183,line9{Day5/183:9}:8 "Question:PerhapsIoughttoaskyouwhatyouwere9 speakingtoMrMcAlindonaboutinthefourhoursnoton

10 thereport.Wereyousayingthingstohimlike,"Well,11 youknow,hecouldbeworkingathome,Idon'tknow,12 Mel.Wereyousortofputtingthoseprovisosin?13 "Answer:Yes,yes,Iwas.14 "Question:Yes?15 "Answer:Muchmorethan‐‐"16 A.CanIjustreadit?Again,MrStuart,youhavegonetoo17 quicklyforme.18 Q.I'msorry.(Pause)19 A.Okay.20 Q.Soyouseethat,andthenatthebottomofpage184,21 line23{Day5/184:23}MrsFrondigounsaid:22 "Answer:Yes,hetoldmethathewasdoingallmy23 NHSwork.That'swhatMrMcAlindontoldme.24 "Question:Isthatwhathesaid?25 "Answer:Yes.



197

1 "Question:That'swhatMrMcAlindonsaidtoyou?

2 "Answer:Yes.

3 "Question:MrRehmanwassayingthathe,MrRehman,

4 wasdoingallyour‐‐

5 "Answer:Doingmyjob.

6 "Question:‐‐NHSwork?

7 "Answer:Yes,whichmademereallycrossbecause

8 thenIsaid,'Absolutelynot,no,ofcoursenot'."

9 Line12:

10 "Question:Strangelyinthe'ontherecord'bit

11 MrMcAlindondoesn'tseemtohavewrittendownthefact

12 thathesaidtoyouthatMrRehmanwassayingthathe

13 didallyourworkforyou.Hedidn'tseemtoslipthat

14 onein.Isthatjustoneofthethreeandthreequarter

15 hours'worththathehadn'tputin?

16 "Answer:Yes,itwas."

17 Doyouseethat?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Andthenpage188atthebottom,line22{Day5/188:22}.

20 "Question:Soyouareactuallymakingquite

21 aseriousallegation..."

22 Twolinesaboveyouwillseetherewasaquoteabout

23 ablatantlie:

24 "...againstMsBirdiandMrRehmanthattheyhave

25 madeablatantlie.Ofcourse,what'snotnotedhere‐‐

198

1 andsoI'mgoingtoaskyou‐‐is:whatdidMrMcAlindon2 saytoyouthattheyweresayingthathewasdoingin3 relationtotherotasandMars?4 "Answer:Hm‐mm."5 Saidthewitness.6 "Question:IsitlikeyourNHSwork?7 "Answer:Yes.8 "Question:MrMcAlindonsuggestedtoyou‐‐9 "Answer:Thathewasdoingit‐‐

10 "Question‐‐thatMrRehmanwassayinghewasdoing11 itall?12 "Answer:Yes.Yes.13 "Question:Andsowhenyourespond,'That's14 ablatantlie',youmean,ofcourse,heisnotdoingall15 ofit?16 "Answer:Yes."17 Doyouseethat?18 A.Yes.19 Q.Almostfinished.Skipovertopage195,line820 {Day5/195:8}.Iquoteananswerthatshehasgivenon21 therecordedversion:22 "'Itisalie.'23 "Again,thatisaveryseriousallegation.24 "Answer:Itis,yes.25 "Question:Especiallyincircumstances..."?

199

1 A.Sorry,what'sthecontextin"it'salie"?2 Q.Youareright.I'mtryingtogotoofast.3 A.Backtoline4:4 "Whatwasyourviewonthestatement?"5 Q.Yes,astatementhasbeenput‐‐ifyougodownto6 page194,line121.7 "Answer:Idon'tthinkIneededto,tobehonest8 withyou:9 "'Canyouthinkofanytimeyouweresickand

10 couldn'tdoitandMushtaqsteppedin?'"11 ThatwasaquestionthatMrMcAlindonwassaidto12 haveputtoher.13 "Answer:No,Inever‐‐no,therewasneveratime14 Icouldthinkthathedid.15 "Question:Okay,butyournextanswerisnotquite16 asexplicableinthatway.17 "Answer:No,itisn't,no.18 "Question:'Whatwasyourviewonthatstatement?'"19 ThatisthestatementbyMrRehmanthat‐‐MrRehman20 wassayingthathesteppedinoccasionallywhenpeople21 wereoffsick:22 "Question:Thiswashisstatementthathehad23 assistedoccasionallytocoverpeoplewhoweredoing24 admindutieswhentheywereoffsick.Youransweris:25 "'Itisalie.'"

200

1 Invertedcommas:2 "Againthatisaveryseriousallegation.3 "Answer:Itis,yes.4 "Question:Especiallyincircumstanceswhereyour5 allegationisuntrue.6 "Answer:Hm‐mm.7 "Question:Istheresomecontexttotheway8 MrMcAlindonhaswrittenthat?Doyounowrecall?9 "Answer:No,Idon't.Iremembertheinterview

10 verywell.Idon'trecall.Say,fromasitwent11 through,myanswersgotmoreemphatic,morecross,12 more‐‐becausehewasstopping,hewastalkingtome.13 "Question:Hewasencouragingyou?14 "Answer:Morethanencouraging:15 "'Tellmeanythingyoucanthinkof...'.16 Andmakingyouangrysayingsomeoneisdoingyour17 job,theyareclaimingtogetpaidbecausetheyare18 doingyourjob.Youthink,'That'sridiculous.'It19 makesyouangry."20 Doyousee,that'swhatMrsFrondigoungaveasher21 explanation‐‐22 A.Yes.23 Q.‐‐forwhathappenedatthisinterview.24 "Question:Yes.25 "Answer:Sothenthewaythatyouanswer,more



201

1 emphaticbecauseyouhavebeenmadetobereallycross.

2 "Question:Absolutely.

3 "Answer:Soprobablyusingwordsthatarestronger

4 inawaythanmaybetheyshouldhavebeen.

5 "Question:Fairenough.

6 "Answer:Becauseyouhadbeenmadetobeangry."

7 Doyouseethat?

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.SoherevidencewasyesterdayonoaththatMrMcAlindon,

10 inthehoursoftheinterviewthatarenotonthetyped

11 record,wasmorethanencouragingher;hewasactually

12 makingherangrybythelevelofallegationsofwhatit

13 wassaidMrRehmanwasallegingtohavedone.Doyou

14 see?

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.IfMrMcAlindonwasdoingthatand/ormisstatingwhat

17 MrRehmanwassayinghehaddoneandwasexaggeratingit

18 inthesensethat'sdescribed,thatwouldbeimproper,

19 wouldn'tit?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Yes.Lasttwobits.Page199,line8.

22 "Question:Obviously,mostofthetimehewasjust

23 fillingyouwiththis‐‐

24 "Answer:Talkingtome,yes.

25 "Question:‐‐hugeamountofnonsense.

202

1 "Answer:Yes.

2 "Question:Buttherecameapointwherehewas

3 askingsomequestions,somespecificquestions,weren't

4 they?Didheactuallysay,'I'mgoingontherecord

5 now,'click,andthenaskyouaquestion?

6 "Answer:No,no,notreally,no,becausethen

7 Iwouldn'thavegotconfusedbytheendastowhetherit

8 wasonorwhetheritwasoffanyway.

9 "Question:Soitwasalljusta‐‐

10 "Answer:Sometimesitwasjustlikehewasjust

11 chattingtome.

12 "Question:Right,andthenhewouldclickiton.

13 "Answer:Yes."

14 Finally,page204‐‐sorry,Isayfinally.There

15 wasanotherquoteImusttakeyouto.

16 204{Day5/204:1}.ThisisMrsFrondigoun's

17 evidence,page204,line1.

18 "Question:Hewasthereaswell?

19 "Answer:Washe?Yes,hewasthere,hewasthere

20 ontheMondayandthenhewentandthenontheTuesday

21 SwarandeepcameinandMrMcAlindonwasoutsideandhe

22 wasquiteintimidating.

23 "Question:Hewasquiteintimidating?Intimidating

24 towardsher?

25 "Answer:Justgenerallyinhismanner.Hehadall

203

1 bruisedknucklesandcutsandstuff."

2 10:

3 "Answer:Hewasquitebig."

4 Then15:

5 "Question:Hewasn'tintimidatingyou,washe,or

6 maybehewas.

7 "Answer:No,hewasn'tintimidatingmebuthewas

8 anintimidatingperson.

9 "Question:Yes?

10 "Answer:Helookedintimidating.AsIsay,hehad

11 somecutsandstuffandhejustlookedabitheavy.

12 "Question:Yourevidenceisthatonthemorningof

13 theTuesdaywhenSwarandeepwasthere,MrMcAlindonwas

14 thereandhewasquiteintimidating.

15 "Answer:Hewasabitscary,yes,andSwarandeep

16 wasfrightened."

17 Doyouseethat,MrDyson?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.DoyouconsideritpartofMrMcAlindon'sremittobe

20 intimidating?Isthatpartoftheinvestigationteam's

21 job?

22 A.Ofcoursenot.

23 Q.Yousay,"Ofcoursenot."Imean,MrMcAlindonisan

24 ex‐policeman,isn'the?

25 A.Yes.

204

1 Q.Somepolicementhinkthatthebestwayofgetting‐‐

2 A.I'veansweredthequestion‐‐

3 Q.‐‐admissionsoutofpeople‐‐

4 A."Ofcoursenot",ismyanswer.

5 Q.Youstandbythat?Good,okay.

6 Finally,page209to210{Day5/209:3}.Ithinkthis

7 probablysummarises‐‐therewasanissue‐‐209atline

8 3:

9 "Question:AfinalcoupleofthingsIneedtoask

10 youaboutthen.Overthepage,424..."

11 Thisis424ofthebundle,MrDyson,whichisnear

12 theendofthetranscriptoftheinterview,okay?:

13 "...youmakeaveryseriousfalseallegationof

14 insurancefraud?"

15 A.Sorry,Ithoughtyousaid209.WhereamIsupposedto

16 be?

17 Q.Sorry,209,line3:

18 "Question:AfinalcoupleofthingsIneedtoask

19 youaboutthen."

20 Thisismyquestion:

21 "Overthepage,424.Youmakeaveryseriousand

22 falseallegationofinsurancefraudagainstMsBirdi...

23 Now,Idounderstandthatyourevidenceisthat

24 MrMcAlindonhadreallypumpedyouupbytheendofthis

25 fourhoursandthatyouwerebasicallysayingallsorts



205

1 ofthingswhichyouwouldn'tnecessarilywishtosayin

2 amoreproperenvironment."

3 Doyouseethat?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.AndIthenquotetheinsurancefraudallegation.

6 "Answer:Okay.

7 "Question:Whydidyousaythat,ordidyousay

8 thatoristhisjustMrMcAlindon?

9 "Answer:Ididsayit,yes."

10 A.Youaregoingtoofast.

11 Q.Line21?

12 A.Sowhat'sthereferencetoinsurance,sorry?

13 Q.Right,sorry.Yes,I'mtryingtogotoofastforyou.

14 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MaybejustletMrDysonreadfromline3

15 onpage209totheendofthepassageyouwanttoask

16 himaquestionabout.

17 A.25.

18 MRSTUART:Line3onpage209downtoline5onpage210.

19 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Justreadthatpagetoyourself.

20 A.To210.That'sonanotherpage,isit?

21 MRSTUART:Justreaddown.

22 A.Okay,Ihavegotit.(Pause)

23 I'mdowntoline25atthebottom.

24 Q.Justline5of210.

25 A.Okay.

206

1 Q.So,line1:

2 "Question:Becausehehadjustmadeyousocross

3 andwoundyouupandkeptsayingmoreandmoreandmore

4 ...

5 "Question:MrMcAlindonhad?

6 "Answer:Yes,anditwasoverquitealongperiod

7 oftime,youknow,soyoujust‐‐Idon'tknow."

8 Doyouseethat?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.IfMrMcAlindonhadwoundMrsFrondigounupduringthis

11 four‐hourinterview,offtherecord,tosuchastateof

12 angerthatshemadefalseallegationsofinsurance

13 fraud‐‐ifhedidthat‐‐Iknowit'sahypothetical,

14 butifhedid,thatwouldbeimproperconductbyhim,

15 wouldn'tit?

16 A.Yes.

17 Q.Fine.Wemaycomebackjusttoabitofthattranscript

18 laterbutwemaynotneedtobecauseyoumayagreewith

19 meonthequestionofbonuses.

20 Allright.Canwegobacktoyourwitness

21 statement?

22 A.CanIgetridofthis?

23 Q.Page89inbundleC,tab9.{C/9/89}

24 A.Page89.

25 Q.Yes.Ihavetakenyoutoparagraph13already.In

207

1 paragraph12yousay:2 "Theprotectionofthebrandisimperativetothe3 growthofthebusinessandanythreatofdamagetothe4 brandistakenveryseriouslybySOG."5 Doyouseethat?6 A.Yes.7 Q.DoyouconsiderMsBirdiathreattothereputationof8 thebrand?9 A.Inwhatcontext?

10 Q.Idon'tknow.I'mjustasking:doyouconsiderher11 athreattothereputation‐‐12 A.Therehastobeacontexttoitbecausetherehasgotto13 beareasonwhyMsBirdiwouldbeathreat.14 Q.Iamjustaskinganopenquestion:Doyouconsider15 MsBirdiathreattothereputationofthebrand?16 A.Ican'tanswerthatquestionunlessit'sinwhat17 context.Ifsheisgoingtobringthebrandinto18 disreputebyheractionsandthenbespecificaboutthe19 actions,Icananswerthequestion.20 Q.Isthatyouranswer?Doyouthinkthatsomeofher21 actionsduringthecourseofthematterscoveredinthis22 case‐‐doyouconsiderthatsomeofheractionsrisked23 bringingthereputationofSpecsaversintodisrepute?24 A.Yes.25 Q.Youdo?Whichofthose,whichofheractions,areyou

208

1 concernedabout?

2 A.Ithinkhavingworkedtheninthestorethatcouldhave

3 causedpeopleinjurybecausetheyweredoneby

4 unqualifiedpeople.

5 Q.Yes.

6 A.Ithinkpeopleonthepayrollthatarenotactually

7 correctlydocumented.

8 Q.MrRehmanandherfather?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Yes.

11 A.Imean,Iwouldhavetosee‐‐theyspringtomind‐‐

12 Q.Okay,fine,fine.

13 Paragraph14{C/9/89}.Youexplainyourrole.You

14 areobviouslyveryseniorinthebusiness.Youworked

15 atTescofor27years,thoughI'mnotsurethat'sa‐‐

16 thesedaysissomethingthatonelikestosay?

17 A.Itwasatthetime.

18 Q.Itwas‐‐absolutely,atthetimeyouleftbackin1998,

19 youhadobviouslybeentherealongtimeatTescos,and

20 youhavenowbeenatSpecsaversforalmostanequal

21 amountoftime.

22 A.16years.

23 Q.Yes.Atthistime,therelevanttimewithMsBirdi,so

24 2007throughto2010,youwereobviouslyrunningavery

25 bigbusinessandyourremitwasataveryhighlevel?



209

1 A.Correct.

2 Q.Whywereyousopersonallyinvolvedintheissueof

3 MsBirdiandthislittlestoreinDartford?

4 A.Canyoujustaskthequestionagain.

5 Q.Yes.Let'stake2007asanexample.

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.Whyareyougettingpersonallyinvolvedintheissueof

8 MsBirdiowningsharesinDartford,thereplacementof

9 thejointventurepartnershipwithasharedventureor

10 groupventure?

11 A.BecauseIsatonacommitteealongwithMarkRainesand

12 otherpeople,MikeRyan,andwehadregularmeetings

13 aboutsharedealsandthetransferofshares.Soitwas

14 partofmyjob.

15 Q.Okay.Canwetakeitfromthatthatifitwasn'tfor

16 theissueofsharedeals,whichIthinksortofstarted

17 withMrPatelon1September2006notifyingyouthathe

18 wantedtosellhissharesto‐‐well,hedidn'tsayto

19 whom;hewantedtosellhisshares.Doyouremember

20 that?

21 A.IrememberthatthatwastoMrRyan,nottome,but...

22 Q.That'sright.Thisismyquestion,though:Icansee

23 whyMrRyan,hissortoflevel,mighthavesomesortof

24 remitover‐‐

25 A.MrRyanisadirectreportofmine.

210

1 Q.Exactly,andthatsortoflevelofscopeofissuewas

2 somethingthatgetsliterallyreporteduptoyou.You

3 know,whopeoplearesellingtheirsharesto‐‐

4 A.Absolutely.

5 Q.‐‐isamatterthatyou‐‐

6 A.It'spartofmyjob,partofhisjob,andIhadregular

7 meetingswithallofmydirectreports.

8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Howmanypeopledidyouhavedirectly

9 reportingtoyou?

10 A.Onoptics,nine.Iwasinchargeofhearingandthere

11 wouldbetwoorthreepeoplethere,andthenIhad

12 globalresponsibilitiesintermsofsupportingsomeof

13 theothercountries.


15 MRSTUART:Paragraph15.Youexplainthatinthatcapacity

16 astheretaildirectorofSOGyouwereresponsiblefor

17 overseeingthedepartmentslistedin13.Sothat

18 includesMrMcAlindon'sdepartment?

19 A.Correct.

20 Q.SoultimatelytheresponsibilityforMrMcAlindon's

21 actionsultimatelyrestswithyou?

22 A.Correct.

23 Q.DoyouspeakregularlywithMrMcAlindon,ordidyouat

24 thetime?Ishouldmakemyselfclear:Backin2007to

25 2010didyouspeakregularlywithMrMcAlindon?

211

1 A.IdidspeakregularlywithMrMcAlindon,yes.

2 Q.Roughly,justtogivethecourtsomeindication,would

3 youspeaktohimonceaweek?Onceamonth?Everyday?

4 A.Itwouldalldependonhisworkloadandwhatcaseload

5 hehad.SosomeweeksImightnottalktohimatall

6 andotherweeksImaytalktohimtwoorthreetimes.

7 Q.Okay.Inparagraph17{C/9/90},inthefirstlineyou

8 takeissuewiththeconceptofquasipartnershipandyou

9 refertotheshareholderagreementandthe:

10 "...Specsaversmanual,whichsetsouts..."

11 I'mreadinghere.Doyouseethat?

12 A.Yes.

13 Q."...whichsetsoutspecificguidelinesonhowcertain

14 aspectsofthebusinessaresupposedtooperate."

15 Doyouseethat?

16 A.Correct.

17 Q.Whataboutthedisciplinaryandinvestigationand

18 grievancepolicy?Wheredoesthatfitintoyour

19 overviewoftherelationshipbetweenyou,Specsavers,

20 andtheJVPs?

21 A.Sorry,canyoujustrephrasethat?

22 Q.Yes.Thereisadisciplinarypolicy,isn'tthere?

23 A.Yes,producedbyourlegaldepartment,yes.

24 Q.Andalong,detailedpolicyabouthowinterviewsshould

25 beconducted?

212

1 A.Correct.

2 Q.Etcetera,etcetera.Idon'tthinkyousaythatthat's

3 partofthemanual‐‐orwouldyou?Perhapsyouwould.

4 Isthatpartofthemanual?

5 A.No,themanualconcernsitselfwiththeshareholder

6 agreementandtheday‐to‐dayrunningofthebusinessand

7 thebrandandmarketingandterritories,etcetera,et

8 cetera.

9 Q.So,yousee,whatyouaresayinghereisthatthe

10 relationbetweenSpecsaversandtheJVPs‐‐thisisnot

11 justMsBirdi,buteveryJVP.

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.Therelationshipisfullysetoutintheshareholders'

14 agreement.Soyougotothattoseewhatthe

15 obligationsare,andinthemanual,which,asyouhave

16 justexplained,hasalotabouthowyouconductsthe

17 business,theday‐to‐daymanagementofthebusinessin

18 theshop.Sowheredoesthedisciplinary/grievance,

19 etcetera,policy‐‐

20 A.Thatwouldbe‐‐itwouldeitherbeinpaperform,in

21 sortofbookletsandthings,oritwouldbeonthe

22 intranet.

23 Q.Yes.Wouldyouacceptthatthatformspartofthe

24 relationshipbetweenSpecsaversandtheJVPs,sothaton

25 bothsidesyoucouldbeexpectedtocomplywiththat?



213

1 A.Yes.2 Q.OntheirsidetheJVPs,theyshouldcomplywith3 disciplineandgrievancemattersinthewaysetoutin4 yourpoliciesandyoursideyoushoulddothatalso?5 A.ItisbasedontheACASguidelines.6 Q.Yes.Anditisthatwhichappliesbetweenyouandyour7 JVPs?8 A.Yes,buttherearethingsintheshareholders'agreement9 thatarenotcoveredbygrievancesandotherthings.

10 Thereareobligationsbydirectorswhicharenotcovered11 inthere.12 Q.Yes.Okay,paragraph18{C/9/90}.Youmakethepoint13 thatJVPsaredescribedaspartnersorjointventure14 partnersinyourgroupliterature.Doyouseethat?15 A.Ido.16 Q.Andyousay:17 "That'sareflectionoftheSpecsaversethos."18 Wehadthisinthelasttrial.Youarecommittedto19 thisethos.Youpersonallyare?20 A.Iam,yes.21 Q.AndtheethosisthatSpecsaversisworkingalongside22 andcollaborativelywiththeJVPs.Thisisnot23 adistributionagreementbetweenyouandathirdparty24 company,thisisyouworkingcollaborativelyand25 supportiveofyourjointventurepartners?

214

1 A.Correct.

2 Q.Andthat'sthenatureoftherelationship,asfarasyou

3 areconcerned,thatyou,Specsavers,havewiththejoint

4 venturepartnership‐‐thepartners.It's

5 acollaborativeone;itisworkingalongsideeachother?

6 A.That'scorrect.

7 Q.Doesthatmeanthateachsidecanexpectfromthe

8 other‐‐youcanexpectfromtheJVPsandtheycan

9 expectfromyou‐‐toacthonestlytowardseachother?

10 A.Yes,wehaveapartnershipcharter,which‐‐thatisone

11 ofthethingsthat'sonit.

12 Q.Okay.Canyougivemesomeindicationofsomeofthe

13 othersthingsonthepartnershipcharter?Honesty.

14 Whatabouttrustandconfidence?

15 A.No,it'snotthatsortof‐‐thechartersayswe

16 passionatelybelieveinthejointventurepartnership

17 andthatwewillworktogetherinthisway.

18 Ittalksaboutwebelievepassionatelyintraining

19 anddevelopmentofpeopleandwegivethemopportunity.

20 Q.Yes.

21 A.Andittalksabouttheprofitabilityofthebusinessis

22 importanttobothpartieswithintherelationship.

23 Q.Yes.

24 A.Ittalksabout‐‐

25 Q.Yousaidhonesty;yousaidsomethingabouthonesty.

215

1 A.No,Ididn'tsaythat.Yousaidthat,Ithink.

2 Q.Yousaid:

3 "Yes,that'sinthecharter."

4 Anyway,Ihaveobviouslygotthatwrong.Itdoesn't

5 talkabouthonestyasbetweenyouandtheJVPs?

6 A.It'snotlaidoutinthatway,no.It'stalkingabout

7 morehighlevelthings,talkingaboutprofitability,

8 talkingabouttraining,development,workingtogether,

9 abouttakingthelong‐termviewofthebusiness,

10 etcetera.

11 Q.WhataboutopennessasbetweenyouandtheJVPpartners?

12 A.Weareveryopenwithourpartners.Wegoandsee

13 them‐‐aspartofmydutiesandothermembersofthe

14 board,wegooutandweseethemeveryeightweeks,face

15 toface,intheirregions.

16 Q.Youweren'tveryopenwithMsBirdiabouttheplansthat

17 youhadforherstorebeingeitherasharedventureor

18 agroupventureinlate2006/early2007,whenyouheard

19 thatMrPatelwantedtosellhisshares.Youweren't

20 veryopenwithheratthatstage,wereyou?

21 A.I'mnotsureIunderstandwhatyoumeanbybeingopen.

22 Wewereinasituationwhereadirectorhadbeenfound

23 guiltyof‐‐

24 Q.No,no,no,it'sbeforethat.That'sFebruary2007.

25 A.Whattimeperiodareyoureferringtothen?

216

1 Q.Isaidlate2006,whenMrPatelsaidheisgoingtosell

2 hisshares.

3 A.That'saprivatematterforMrPatelandhasnothingto

4 dowithMsBirdiuntilitbecomesapositionwhereit's

5 actuallygoingtohappen.Thereisadifference

6 between,"Iwouldliketosell"‐‐thatisprivateand

7 confidentialbetweenMikeRyanandwithanypartnerthat

8 wishestoexpressthatconcern.Ithasgotnothingto

9 dowithMsBirdiuntilitgetstoapointwhereashare

10 salewouldhappen.

11 Q.Okay.Onceshehasbeenmadeawarethathewantsto

12 sell,asbetweenthetwoofthemit'snolonger

13 confidential?

14 A.Thenwewouldsaytothepartner,"Younowneedtotalk

15 toyourpartneraboutit."

16 Q.Fine.ButIwasactuallyaskingyouaboutyour

17 position,Specsavers'intentions,because‐‐

18 A.Wehaven'tgotanyintentions.Wehavebeeninformedby

19 apartnerthattheywishtoselltheirsharesandthey

20 havetocometousbecausewehavetofacilitatethat

21 becausewehavetochoosetheincomingpartner,asis

22 partofouragreementwiththeshareholders'agreement.

23 Q.Therecameapoint‐‐

24 A.Sowehaven'tgotapositiononituntilweknowthat

25 theyareactuallyupforsale.



217

1 Q.YouknewtheywereupforsaleinSeptember2006.

2 A.No,weknewthatMrPatelsaidthathewishedtosell

3 hisshares.Thatdoesn'tmeantosaythattheyareup

4 forsalebecause,inorderforthemtobeupforsale,

5 youhavegottohaveabuyer.

6 Q.YouknewhewantedtosellhissharesinSeptember2006?

7 A.Ipersonallydidn'tbutMrRyandid.

8 Q.AndMrRyanreporteduptoyou,yousaid‐‐

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.‐‐attheseregularmeetings.Therecameapoint

11 inNovember2006whereyouknewthathehadabuyer,

12 MsKaur?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.£170,000.Youknewaboutthat?

15 A.Weknewthathehadhadconversations,notwithus,

16 outsideofthesortofbusinesstransferservice,with

17 anindividual,yes.

18 Q.Yes.AndcanyoubepassedbundleE2,pages214and

19 215.{E/16/214}.So214.6November.MsKauris

20 writingtoMrRyan.Doyouseethat?

21 A.Yes.

22 Q."I'mwritingthislettertoinformyouthatNimeshhas

23 verballyacceptedmyofferforhisshareholding.

24 "PleasefindenclosedaletterIhavesentto

25 NimeshPatel.

218

1 "Ilookforwardtospeaktoyouregardingthenext2 steps."3 Doyouseethat?4 A.Yes.5 Q.Andthentheattachedletterisoverthepage,2156 {E/17/215}:7 "DearMrPatel,8 "I'mwritingtosetoutmyformaloffertoyouto9 purchaseyour50percentshareholdinginthecompany

10 operatingtheDartfordSpecsaversstore.11 "Iofferthesumof£170,000,payableupon12 completion,toobtainunencumberedtitletothat13 shareholding."14 Doyouseethat?15 A.Yes.16 Q.Thereissomemanuscriptontheright‐handsideofthat.17 Canyouseeitsays:18 "=4.5xP/E."19 Doyourecognisethatatall?20 A.That'sMrRyan'shandwritingbythelookofthat.21 Q.Okay.Andoverthepage,216{E/17/216},thenextday,22 MrPatelwritesbackandhecopiesthistoMrRyan.Do23 yousee216?24 A.Yes:25 Q."DearMsKaur,

219

1 "I'mhappytoacceptyourofferfor£170,000formy2 50percentsharesofDartford."3 A.Yes.4 Q.Doyousee?5 A.Ido.6 Q.Atthebottomofthatthereissomehandwriting.Doyou7 recognisethat?8 A.No,Ican'tevenreadthat‐‐Idon'tknow‐‐nevermind9 recogniseit.

10 Q.Ithinkitsays:11 "Writeholdinglettertoboth."12 Doyouseethat:13 "...holdinglettertoboth."14 A.Yes.15 Q.Andthenbeneaththatitlookslikeitsays:16 "Boardconsidering."17 Doyouseethat?18 A.Okay.19 Q.DidyouhaveadiscussionwithMrRyanataboutthis20 timeabouthowtorespondtotheposition,whichwas21 thatMrPatelwaswantingtosellandMsKaurwas22 wantingtobuytheshares?23 A.Ican'tsaythatIactuallyrememberit,no.24 Q.Okay.25 A.Butthisisoutwiththeprocess,soitdoesn'treally

220

1 matterwhat'swritteninanyoftheselettersbecause

2 thisisnottheprocessbywhichwebuyandsellshares.

3 So,peoplehavingconversationsoutside,agreeing

4 things,withoutfirstofallMichaelRyangivingthem

5 thebusinesstransferserviceapplicationform,then

6 payingafeetoustocarryitoutandthenthe

7 individualwhowishestodothatgoingthroughastage1

8 process‐‐nothingisgoingtohappenbecausethat'snot

9 theprocessthatwebuyandsellshares,becausewehave

10 toendorsetheindividual,andIdorememberhaving

11 aconversationlater,notatthistime,thatNikiKaur

12 wouldnotbeacceptablebecauseshedidn'thavethe

13 experience.

14 Q.Yes.

15 A.Sojustbecausepeopleagreeoutsideofourprocesses,

16 thatdoesn'tmeananything.

17 Q.Itmeanssomething,doesn'tit,MrDyson?Itmeansthat

18 thosepeoplewishtopursuethe‐‐

19 A.Butitdoesn'tmeananythingintermsofwhetherthat

20 willgothroughandbeaneventuality.

21 Q.Yousayyouhavetoauthoriseandyouwillonly

22 authoriseafteryouhavegonethroughyourprocess?

23 A.Correct.

24 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Whatisthestage1processyoureferto?

25 A.Thestage1processisafewthings.WhenIjoinedthe



221

1 company,therewasnoprocesstoconsiderwhowasbuying

2 andcomingin.Sofirstofallweputinthedisk

3 profiling,sothereissomeprofilingoftheindividual

4 intermsofwhattheyarelike,intermsof

5 psychometric.

6 Wealsogivethemsomecasestudiesthathavegot

7 nothingtodowiththeworldofoptometryandsay,"If

8 youwereinchargeofthisbusiness,hereisascenario,

9 howwouldyoumanageit?"Wearetryingtofindthe

10 acumen‐‐havetheygotbusinessacumen‐‐beforewe

11 startgivingpeoplethekeys.

12 Andwealsolookatexperienceaswell,intermsof

13 whatsizeofstorewouldwegivethem.Woulditbe

14 someonethatwewouldgiveintoanewstore,wherethe

15 businessisgoingtogrowslowly,oristhisareally

16 bigstoreandit'stakingmoneyanditneedsmoreofan

17 experiencedpersongoingin.

18 Soweprofilethemtomakesurewehavegotthe

19 rightpersontomatchtheopportunitythatisforsale.


21 MRSTUART:AndobviouslyMsKaur,shewasalsoin

22 aSpecsaversjustalongthecoast,wasn'tshe?

23 A.Shewas.ShewasinGrays,Ithink.Shewasamanager.

24 Q.Sopage224{E/21/224},MrRyanreplied,perhapsthe

25 holdingreply.Doyouseethatone:

222

1 "Imustinformyouthat,underthetermsofhis2 jointventureagreement,heisrequiredtoselltoa3 dispensingopticianunlessSpecsaversandtheother4 partiestotheagreementagreetowaivethat5 requirement.6 "Specsaversisconsideringthismatterandwewill7 informyouofourdecision."8 A.Yes.9 Q.Sowereyouinvolvedatallinthissortof

10 decision‐makinginrelationtothisstoreatthistime?11 A.Iwouldn'thavebeeninvolvedinthisbecausethisis12 justaholdingletterfromMichaelRyan.13 Q.Yes.Butitwastrue,wasit,whatwasinthere?You14 wereactuallyconsideringit?15 A.Ipersonallymightnothavebeenatthistime‐‐16 Q.Specsaverswas‐‐17 A.‐‐butMrRyanmaywellhavebeen.18 Q.Was?Okay,fine.19 AndIthinkitisyourevidencethatatthatpoint20 intheproceedings,asregardsMrPatelsellinghis21 sharestosomeonewhomhehaddoneadealwith,the22 issueof‐‐23 A.Sorry,hehasn'tdoneadealwithanybodybecausehe24 needsourconsentinordertosellhissharestothe25 individual.

223

1 Q.Hehasreachedanagreement.Itmaynotaffectyou,it

2 maynotbindyou,andyoumayevenbeabletovetoitor

3 notauthoriseit.Butthatdoesn'tmeanthathehasn't

4 writtentoMsKaurandMsKaurhaswrittentohimand‐‐

5 A.No,itdoesn't,Iacceptthat.

6 Q.Right,fine.WhatIwasputtingtoyou‐‐andIdon't

7 thinkit'scontentious‐‐isthatatthispoint,in

8 relationtothem,mattersgetovertakenbythefactthat

9 MrPatelisbeinginvestigatedfortheft?

10 A.Ithinkthat'safairassessment,yes.

11 Q.Andweseethatevidenced,Ithink,fromthefactthat

12 MrMcAlindonisputtingincameras.Doyouremember?

13 A.Correct.

14 Q.Page228‐1isanexample{E/23.1/228‐1}.

15 A.I'minthesamebundle?

16 Q.Yes.Thereareanumberofinvoicesforcamerasgoing

17 in‐‐

18 A.Sorry,yes,I'mwithyounow.

19 Q.‐‐ataroundthistime?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Camerasbeinginthere.Didyoupersonallyauthorise

22 MrMcAlindontostartthisinvestigationintoMrPatel?

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.Didyoudothatwiththeknowledgeandconsentandinput

25 ofyourfellowdirectorandJVpartner,MsBirdi,at

224

1 thattime?

2 A.ThetimingwouldbethatMrMcAlindonwouldhavespoken

3 tome,toldmethathehadsuspicionsofactivityinthe

4 store.Hewouldhavecontinuedtogatherthat

5 informationandatapointwherehewassaying,"Inow

6 needtotakethistothenextlevel"‐‐andthewayto

7 takeittothenextlevelistogetthephotographicor

8 thevideoevidenceofthat‐‐hewouldthenaskmecould

9 heinstallcameras,andthenCristinadelGraziawould

10 haveraiseddocumentationthatwouldhavegoneto

11 MsBirditosign.MrMcAlindonwouldthenhavethem

12 installed.

13 Q.Thankyou.

14 Wouldthatbeaconvenientmoment?

15 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thatwouldbeconvenientmoment.

16 MrDyson,Iknowyouhavebeengivenevidencebefore

17 but,asyouareinthemiddleofgivingyourevidence,

18 donotspeaktoanybodyovernightaboutthecaseoryour

19 evidence.

20 A.Iunderstand.

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Wewillseeyoubackat10o'clock

22 tomorrow.

23 (4.31pm)

24 (Thecourtadjourneduntil10.00amthefollowingday)

25



225

1 INDEX2 MSHELENTIDMASS(affirmed)..........................43 Cross‐examinationbyMRSTUART...................44 MSLUCYHORNBY(affirmed)...........................815 Cross‐examinationbyMRSTUART..................816 Re‐examinationbyMRPOTTS.....................1287 MRSTEPHENHUMMELL(affirmed)......................1318 Cross‐examinationbyMRSTUART.................1319 MRDEREKDYSON(affirmed)..........................167

10 Examination‐in‐chiefbyMRPOTTS...............16711 Cross‐examinationbyMRSTUART.................1701213141516171819202122232425



226October 30, 2014 Day 6


A

abilities (1) 155:8ability (1) 184:17able (9) 84:19 85:23

90:18 117:17 132:2160:15,16 167:15223:2

absolutely (11) 107:1132:5,7 163:13178:23 184:23186:22 197:8 201:2208:18 210:4

ACAS (1) 213:5accept (10) 51:24

164:18 177:6,12,14177:20 186:14212:23 219:1 223:5

acceptable (2) 183:24220:12

accepted (3) 160:6177:3 217:23

access (1) 23:11accident (1) 119:11accommodating (2)

2:16,18accompanied (2) 21:2

90:12accompaniment (1)

119:4accompany (1) 119:3accord (2) 42:25 43:18account (1) 10:13accurate (1) 177:13accusation (3) 106:15

106:16,18accused (2) 136:9,10acknowledge (5)

111:16,16 112:19112:22 113:23

act (2) 172:14 214:9acted (1) 111:1acting (1) 172:5action (3) 184:3 186:7

187:6actions (7) 112:14

207:18,19,21,22,25210:21

activity (1) 224:3actual (5) 13:22 26:12

99:5 106:17 178:1acumen (2) 221:10,10ad (1) 102:3add (3) 34:6 91:6,8addition (1) 169:21address (1) 162:5adjourned (1) 224:24adjournment (1)

114:17adjustment (2) 68:16

122:13admin (2) 92:4 199:24admissions (1) 204:3admitted (2) 71:18

180:19advised (5) 28:20

29:23 89:24 119:21119:25

affect (1) 223:1affirmed (8) 4:7 81:23

131:2 167:2 225:2225:4,7,9

afraid (2) 114:10169:7

afternoon (4) 3:734:17 165:1 192:1

after‐work (2) 148:2,3ago (11) 8:17 13:23

30:4 39:13 63:1467:24 125:9 131:18148:24 162:10

191:5agree (12) 5:21 12:7

45:3 130:15 137:1143:6 183:17 187:4187:8 206:18220:15 222:4

agreed (6) 4:3 5:177:11 74:10 78:14183:18

agreeing (3) 32:3118:2 220:3

agreement (11)171:23 211:9 212:6212:14 213:8,23216:22,22 222:2,4223:1

Ah (1) 39:1ahead (1) 6:20aimed (2) 94:7,9Akin (3) 1:25 2:9,25Alex (6) 87:1 109:22

109:23,23,24,25Alison (5) 24:13,14

25:2 34:10 100:15allegation (28) 49:20

53:3,4 66:4 70:1293:19 106:15118:16,18 133:22135:22 139:2 140:2140:3 141:3 143:2143:3 148:20,23151:10 172:10197:21 198:23200:2,5 204:13,22205:5

allegations (19) 11:2323:24 24:23 27:390:19,22 91:1493:9 98:6 108:12132:8 136:19 137:2137:7,11,14 195:23201:12 206:12

allege (1) 107:19alleged (3) 50:21

93:14 181:5alleging (4) 99:15

136:14 172:4201:13

alleviate (1) 146:21allowances (1) 60:3allowed (5) 85:24

96:13,14,18 107:3alongside (2) 213:21

214:5altercation (1) 123:17alternative (1) 28:21amendment (2) 169:1

169:2amendments (1)

122:22amount (3) 96:18

201:25 208:21and/or (5) 73:1 76:3

142:11 172:6201:16

anger (1) 206:12angry (6) 41:3 79:18

200:16,19 201:6,12answer (115) 16:25

17:2,5 20:7 39:6,1165:13 66:15,1669:24 70:5 71:1474:3 76:24 79:6,1680:1,12 115:12,21116:19 120:23121:1,6 125:24132:21 135:3,17148:16 156:15,16157:16 159:6,7175:10,12,18,23

176:3,5,9,12,15178:4,6,15,18,22178:25 179:7,11,13179:19 180:8,10191:14,21 192:1,6192:21 193:14,15193:18,20,21194:12,22 195:11195:14 196:13,15196:22,25 197:2,5197:7,16 198:4,7,9198:12,16,20,24199:7,13,15,17,24200:3,6,9,14,25,25201:3,6,24 202:1,6202:10,13,19,25203:3,7,10,15204:4 205:6,9206:6 207:16,19,20

answered (8) 57:1265:6 66:17 67:175:4 77:10 195:12204:2

answering (2) 63:8183:13

answers (7) 175:1178:9 181:22 185:8193:10 195:23200:11

anxious (1) 25:8anybody (14) 18:16

54:23 93:4 107:12107:14 112:3114:11 119:20127:3 150:9,16,17222:23 224:18

anybody's (1) 92:16anyway (16) 9:7 13:17

24:16 40:25 43:246:1 50:24 70:2573:8 108:1 120:6134:4 140:17 182:7202:8 215:4

apart (3) 17:9 78:20153:24

apologise (3) 85:14125:1 129:8

apologised (2) 124:4,5appear (3) 60:23 61:3

153:15appeared (1) 45:13appears (1) 161:15application (3) 177:16

184:11 220:5applies (2) 167:16

213:6appointments (1)

123:14appreciate (16) 93:18

94:2,11,22 95:2296:17 99:22 106:17107:24 108:15116:6,24 117:20120:4 124:25125:10

approached (10)48:22 49:5,9,2263:21 109:7,23,23141:24 142:6

approaching (1) 49:3April (4) 20:18 24:5

97:24 98:23April/beginning (2)

101:15,23arguing (1) 124:13argument (3) 77:15

117:18 169:10arising (1) 130:20arranged (1) 40:1arrangements (1) 3:5

arrival (1) 149:10aside (2) 189:16

190:20asked (53) 1:21 3:19

5:21 6:22,23 15:1415:18 23:9 24:434:19 39:5,2058:22,23,24 62:663:14 64:13,16,1764:18,19 65:766:10 70:2 75:598:20 109:14,24111:15 113:11,21113:22 115:8121:25 122:7134:18 137:7148:24 152:22157:13,14 159:19175:1,4 179:8183:13,15,18184:15 187:17,20188:14

asking (42) 16:24,2531:8 32:23 41:1941:25,25 48:2351:24 63:8,12 65:265:2,11,25 66:467:25 69:3 73:377:10 78:6 95:3118:12 120:16,17120:21 121:21136:25 142:7 144:9151:9 177:6 181:1181:11 182:6 185:7185:21 189:11202:3 207:10,14216:16

asks (2) 63:9 71:11aspects (1) 211:14aspheric (1) 152:18assertion (2) 50:18

151:6assessment (1) 223:10assist (2) 166:6,7assistant (2) 130:18

149:21assisted (2) 90:23

199:23assisting (1) 171:8assume (4) 99:1,2

189:6,7assumed (1) 93:7atmosphere (1)

111:23attached (2) 190:5

218:5attaching (1) 195:23attempts (1) 70:3attend (1) 2:5attention (10) 16:13

21:17 45:9 46:3,1547:17 108:3,18140:21 141:16

attitude (4) 28:2575:12 76:21 185:15

attraction (1) 22:4Audit (2) 171:14,21August (6) 159:15

160:2,25 161:14,15162:12

Australia (1) 164:12authorise (4) 220:21

220:22 223:3,21availability (1) 130:12available (2) 163:4

182:20aware (83) 6:3,5 11:4

11:19,21 15:1019:21 20:1,7,8,1020:11 24:4,6,18

25:11,14 26:1,327:7,18 28:1,333:18 37:15,1838:17 48:20,2249:2,8 63:11 64:1064:14,20,25 65:365:10,14,24 70:872:4 89:3,5,1398:15 100:2,3,17100:22 102:13103:10,14 104:3,6104:24 105:1 109:7111:21 112:5,7133:4 134:4,5136:12,15,18,20137:11,14 139:25140:1 141:24 142:6144:4 156:20164:10 180:22,23181:3 183:6 186:15216:11

awareness (1) 106:4awful (2) 51:19

178:21awfully (1) 141:7

B

baby (2) 3:12 79:2back (68) 8:24,25

11:19 14:25 15:318:19 19:6 27:1129:11 33:3,5 34:1734:18 35:11 36:2141:18 50:14,19,2452:1 66:8 73:6 77:685:4 87:24 88:1088:12,19 89:11,1289:13,16,17,2590:16 93:7 94:23101:22 105:12109:19 110:17114:14 121:12128:5,19 134:11137:21 144:1,17145:6 146:6,13148:10 153:9,21154:16 155:12172:2 174:3 176:6194:17 199:3206:17,20 208:18210:24 218:22224:21

backwards (1) 143:16bad (2) 109:11 142:25badly (1) 139:23based (2) 125:12

213:5basically (5) 79:21

126:20 190:24191:8 204:25

basis (2) 47:14 126:22began (3) 13:19 44:12

101:12beginning (2) 87:18

101:23behaved (1) 23:4behaving (1) 23:6behaviour (6) 21:17

22:1,3 36:13 46:25112:4

believe (48) 6:6 8:2413:13 14:1 16:1725:15 28:14 37:2138:5 41:14 55:1355:14 57:9,1461:16 62:2,7,1974:8 75:24 78:784:6 85:4 86:1287:2 88:2,7 90:1190:14 92:21 95:18

98:24 101:13,13,22103:8 111:19117:13 121:25125:6 151:2 152:2162:4 187:23194:19,21 214:16214:18

believed (1) 156:3beneath (1) 219:15best (5) 26:5 28:14

64:2 130:10 204:1better (2) 86:1 108:22big (14) 7:17 16:12

45:8 46:2,14 47:16108:2,17 122:6140:20 141:15203:3 208:25221:16

bind (1) 223:2Birdi (63) 2:9 18:23

20:22 22:2 23:2125:20 27:18,2428:1,10,17 32:1432:20,21 33:5 34:241:11,13 51:8,1651:25 52:3,6,1564:10 82:9 126:23128:22 143:21152:4 154:4 157:21159:20,23 160:8,19162:14 172:4,14174:16,20 180:5,17182:1 183:7 187:3187:13 189:25190:12 197:24204:22 207:7,13,15208:23 209:3,8212:11 215:16216:4,9 223:25224:11

Birdi's (2) 180:2192:25

birth (1) 3:10bit (15) 18:19 53:11

53:14 129:12 132:6139:22 147:15154:1 165:24,25179:9 197:10203:11,15 206:17

bitch (15) 179:21180:6,11,18,18182:2,4 183:7,7,23183:23 187:3,14189:16,25

bits (1) 201:21bizarre (1) 69:8blame (1) 140:8bland (1) 184:16blatant (3) 197:23,25

198:14block (1) 115:13blue (1) 9:16board (5) 28:9 161:11

163:2 215:14219:16

bodies (1) 171:24bombarded (1) 69:8bonuses (5) 159:13,14

169:3,11 206:19book (1) 123:24booked (5) 123:6,7,12

123:14 165:22booklets (1) 212:21born (1) 35:17boss (5) 9:25 23:12

46:21 47:2 106:25bottom (16) 19:8

22:19,20 115:4118:10 126:10128:20 135:8,8

174:22,23 185:10196:20 197:19205:23 219:6

box (1) 188:6brand (7) 171:10

207:2,4,8,15,17212:7

break (10) 14:2253:10 54:20,21,2355:2 114:7 158:4158:13 162:11

breaks (1) 14:17brief (1) 96:22bring (4) 99:19,20

122:13 207:17bringing (1) 207:23broken (6) 68:16

111:7 112:6,7113:5,9

brother (1) 119:11brought (29) 15:5,10

16:7,11,13 17:7,1317:17 19:1 22:2144:22 45:9 46:3,1546:24 47:17 48:1248:13 97:1 105:15108:3,18 139:3,6139:11 140:19,20141:14,15

bruised (1) 203:1bullied (1) 71:14bundle (14) 18:19

58:17 82:6 100:10162:17,18 169:24170:15,20 172:21204:11 206:23217:18 223:15

bundles (1) 4:14business (31) 22:13

28:14 71:20 82:2084:10 122:6,17130:9,10 145:18146:23 153:9,10,20153:21 154:16157:6 207:3 208:14208:25 211:14212:6,17,17 214:21215:9 217:16 220:5221:8,10,15

busy (1) 82:13button (1) 151:23buy (3) 219:22 220:2,9buyer (2) 217:5,11buying (1) 221:1buzzed (1) 15:17

C

C (2) 167:5 206:23cab (1) 82:20call (17) 3:2 15:15,16

31:24 43:8,1262:23 66:9 86:892:6 117:3,3130:25 152:17154:7 162:8 173:18

called (6) 3:23 22:1426:7,8 151:22173:22

calm (1) 41:21cameras (4) 223:12,16

223:21 224:9capacity (1) 210:15care (2) 3:11 123:12careful (2) 48:8,11caretaker (1) 84:13Carl (1) 152:2carry (1) 220:6case (12) 54:24

114:13 172:3173:21 177:7 186:5



189:12 196:2207:22 211:4 221:6224:18

cash (2) 86:15,20cashed (1) 99:18cashing (4) 86:12,13

86:14 136:1caught (2) 179:14,14cause (1) 187:25caused (10) 28:2

87:19,21 97:6,2097:21 105:24 106:2106:7 208:3

causing (1) 21:18cent (5) 98:24 125:6

132:5 218:9 219:2centre (3) 15:15,16

66:9certain (6) 11:4 52:19

130:9 132:5 193:10211:13

certainly (7) 107:13114:4 134:5 142:17150:11 158:6163:16

certainty (1) 102:7cetera (18) 2:15,15

39:22 61:20 65:179:25 127:8 139:24161:24 171:25195:4,4 212:2,2,7,8212:19 215:10

challenge (1) 177:18challenged (1) 177:11chance (2) 145:7

146:13change (6) 9:19 21:25

54:2,4,6 167:18changed (1) 46:25changes (4) 87:11

118:25 130:11,15character (2) 89:21

105:10charge (5) 85:3 92:19

171:13 210:10221:8

charter (4) 214:10,13214:15 215:3

chat (1) 117:2chats (3) 31:25 33:21

72:7chatting (2) 30:17

202:11checked (1) 29:7childcare (1) 3:5childish (1) 23:6children (1) 3:12choice (2) 23:20

191:22choose (1) 216:21chose (1) 136:11chosen (1) 95:4Christmas (2) 68:23

68:24circumstance (1)

119:15circumstances (10)

3:14 55:12 62:1680:16,17 89:16131:16 184:1198:25 200:4

claiming (1) 200:17Clare (1) 3:6clarification (3)

167:12 168:4,7Clark (42) 56:20 57:2

57:5,8,11,23 58:158:15,23 59:260:24,25 61:7 62:662:16 63:2,5 64:9

65:3,13,15 66:1467:3,5 73:8,17,1874:18,22 79:2180:16 114:23115:23 118:16120:5 147:1 148:10149:5 150:5 151:1156:22 157:13

Clark's (1) 66:16clear (23) 2:8 4:23

7:13 32:21 67:2581:15 97:24 109:3111:2,3 112:2116:7 127:21,22132:20 139:5142:21 147:22154:25 173:14191:5,10 210:24

clearly (11) 22:2 46:1046:19 58:5 59:4,5,769:1 79:23 110:8186:25

click (3) 151:23 202:5202:12

clinic (3) 123:13,24124:22

clinically (1) 124:2clinics (3) 79:25 123:5

123:6clip (1) 1:5clipboard (1) 70:23close (1) 95:9closed (2) 56:13 70:25coast (1) 221:22cold (1) 36:19collaborative (1)

214:5collaboratively (2)

213:22,24colleague (2) 21:2

152:1colleagues (3) 22:4

115:13 138:22column (1) 174:23combination (1) 91:3come (39) 1:15,18 5:8

5:22 9:16 11:1918:17 26:17 29:1133:2 38:2 42:2544:19 50:24 51:1552:1 73:6 82:1689:12 93:7 96:1296:14,15 102:3,5109:19 117:8 138:3138:11 140:6 145:6146:6 155:12164:11 166:16194:2,17 206:17216:20

comes (2) 121:7123:11

coming (16) 34:1752:17 81:14 87:2488:10,12 89:11,1389:16,25 90:16101:17 146:13158:2 163:12 221:2

commas (1) 200:1comment (8) 22:3

152:1 177:1 180:9182:5 183:14189:17 190:13

commented (2)142:24,24

commenting (7) 50:6110:2 112:9 113:8142:15 143:3,9

comments (6) 98:13151:6 185:14,17186:10,11

commitments (2) 2:122:13

committed (1) 213:18committee (1) 209:11common (1) 39:7communication (1)

28:25company (4) 2:14

213:24 218:9 221:1company's (1) 171:23comparison (1) 132:3compatible (1) 51:20complain (1) 47:6complained (2) 19:4

48:13complaining (2) 18:24

20:11complaint (19) 19:1

19:22,23 20:2,8,920:10 21:1,20 25:541:10 52:10 100:11100:23,24 101:6,9101:19 105:2

complaints (5) 24:2053:17 100:18119:23 155:2

complete (2) 165:14169:5

completely (2) 66:15107:25

completing (2) 22:15121:15

completion (3) 79:13121:23 218:12

compliance (1) 171:22complicated (1) 3:10complications (1)

82:24compliments (1)

124:15comply (2) 212:25

213:2computer (1) 83:10concept (1) 211:8concern (3) 132:23

149:10 216:8concerned (8) 12:2

28:1 48:3 138:2146:20 155:12208:1 214:3

concerns (6) 36:1165:23 85:23 109:24155:14 212:5

concern/problem (1)163:2

conditions (1) 25:9conduct (7) 18:24

48:14 76:17 155:8188:18 189:13206:14

conducted (2) 190:21211:25

conducting (1) 192:15conducts (1) 212:16confidence (1) 214:14confidential (3) 106:5

216:7,13confirm (7) 73:12,20

115:9,19 128:10168:24 169:21

confirmed (8) 23:2424:19 49:21 64:1376:1 100:18 112:10113:10

confused (3) 81:3186:13 202:7

consent (2) 222:24223:24

consider (8) 162:20,24203:19 207:7,10,14

207:22 221:1considered (1) 122:5considering (3) 219:16

222:6,14consisted (1) 12:25consistent (1) 186:18construct (1) 84:18constructed (1)

113:15contact (2) 34:13

119:13contain (1) 78:8contained (1) 173:23contemporaneously ...

182:11content (2) 10:3 95:4contentious (1) 223:7contents (5) 121:19

168:7,24 169:22170:5

context (19) 9:13 10:326:6 174:14 179:23179:24 180:13181:7 191:10192:21,24 193:3,6193:14 199:1 200:7207:9,12,17

continually (2) 179:19182:8

continue (4) 22:1093:6 159:8 166:24

continued (1) 224:4contradicting (1)

153:5contrast (1) 189:24convenient (6) 53:13

54:15 114:5,6224:14,15

conversation (40) 7:67:14,16 8:14 15:222:22 30:7,8,9,1030:11,20 31:4,1131:14,18 32:5,7,1833:25 39:21 40:2542:6 43:21 50:2078:13 79:19 90:1290:13,15 91:11102:10,24 116:21116:22 117:20131:25 137:16181:22 220:11

conversations (7)14:19 47:5 96:1136:12 138:20217:15 220:3

convince (1) 22:24copies (1) 218:22copy (3) 169:10 185:5

185:5core (1) 152:19corner (2) 4:20 185:10correct (26) 5:1 57:15

57:16 114:24 115:3119:19 126:17167:13,17 168:17169:5,19,20 171:15172:16 174:21196:5 209:1 210:19210:22 211:16212:1 214:1,6220:23 223:13

correction (1) 168:11correctly (2) 123:14

208:7correspondence (5)

1:6,7,8,22 186:2could've (1) 96:21counsel (2) 60:18

189:11counter (1) 111:9

countered (1) 112:18countries (1) 210:13couple (11) 11:25

19:10 29:4 76:13180:10 181:4,5191:4 196:6 204:9204:18

course (18) 41:1871:22 106:24 107:1122:5 154:1 164:9165:8,20 166:3,14197:8,25 198:14203:22,23 204:4207:21

court (11) 3:9 49:262:18 63:1 78:1681:19 98:2 108:21180:25 211:2224:24

cover (3) 102:5,5199:23

covered (4) 85:4207:21 213:9,10

CPR (1) 166:21crap (3) 80:7 150:3

151:7creating (1) 80:17creation (2) 62:17

115:24Cristina (1) 224:9criticise (1) 145:19criticised (1) 54:11criticism (5) 94:5 96:9

96:10 141:7,18cross (6) 41:22 189:4

197:7 200:11 201:1206:2

crossed (5) 45:10,1445:15,17 140:24

cross‐examination (...4:8 38:10 81:24131:3 160:9 166:17170:8 225:3,5,8,11

cross‐examination/r...165:1

cross‐examine (6)158:20 162:1164:23 177:18184:13,20

cross‐examined (1)160:22

cross‐examining (1)3:16

crying (1) 70:21current (1) 65:21customers (4) 30:14

30:16,19 77:18customer's (1) 112:20cut (2) 9:1 77:16cuts (2) 203:1,11C/10/119 (1) 168:19C/10/124 (1) 169:1C/10/126 (1) 168:22C/18/183 (1) 170:1C/9/115 (1) 168:11C/9/86 (1) 167:6C/9/87 (1) 172:4C/9/89 (3) 170:20

206:23 208:13C/9/90 (2) 211:7

213:12C/9/93 (1) 167:10

D

damage (1) 207:3Dan (2) 84:13 92:23Daniel (2) 84:21 85:1Darshan (15) 7:21 8:4

41:3,10,17,18,2542:4 87:3 116:14

117:16,23 129:3,17129:22

Darshan's (2) 41:2191:4

Dartford (13) 10:758:20 59:14 61:2103:7,9 108:11179:25 193:10209:3,8 218:10219:2

date (25) 10:21,22,2311:4 34:10 39:1744:18 55:11,2083:12,16,17,18,20102:13 103:1,10,10103:12 127:14,15132:3 134:3 160:2160:10

dated (10) 8:15 27:1155:6 56:2 83:14,1783:17 98:23 161:14161:15

dates (11) 8:24 35:1037:23 39:10,1841:9,16,17 55:872:21 88:17

daughter (3) 3:1070:16 82:23

David (4) 56:20 65:1466:18 76:5

day (65) 5:12 8:21,228:23 9:1,4 22:1331:2 35:9 36:139:12 42:23 52:252:20 55:18 56:2,962:4 63:16,19 66:868:4 71:1 79:7,2380:2,3 83:12,15,1883:20,23,24 84:6,784:8 85:7,8 86:1686:20,22 88:5,592:9 95:18 102:14102:16,18,23,25108:24 119:13123:23 124:4135:25 152:9,13155:19 163:5 165:2165:4 170:10 211:3218:21 224:24

days (22) 8:18 9:1,313:20,22 27:1329:4 35:21,24 36:452:2 55:6 92:495:19 102:8 124:21146:24 178:6,7179:9 181:15208:16

day's (1) 86:15day‐to‐day (2) 212:6

212:17Day5/162:1 (1) 173:2Day5/162:25 (1)

175:4Day5/163:7 (1)

175:11Day5/163:9 (1)

175:15Day5/164:17 (1)

178:1Day5/166:16 (1)

178:19Day5/167:14 (1)

190:9Day5/167:16 (1)

179:3Day5/168/21 (1)

190:23Day5/168:21 (1)

191:7Day5/168:8 (1)

179:17Day5/169:6 (1)

191:18Day5/171:10 (2)

192:20 193:15Day5/172:1 (1)

193:25Day5/173:13 (1)

194:16Day5/174:5 (1) 195:3Day5/183:9 (1) 196:7Day5/184:23 (1)

196:21Day5/188:22 (1)

197:19Day5/195:8 (1)

198:20Day5/204:1 (1)

202:16Day5/209:3 (1) 204:6DC (3) 60:23 65:21

77:13dead (1) 77:16deal (13) 3:25 54:16

114:4 159:3 162:8163:14,15 165:18166:16 170:18194:18 222:21,23

dealing (3) 135:7162:23 177:25

deals (3) 138:18209:13,16

dealt (2) 36:14 54:18Dear (3) 28:8 218:7,25debate (2) 177:22,24December (1) 185:7decided (12) 2:18 3:14

7:23 40:10,10 41:141:2 42:3 52:1062:25 122:16173:21

decision (5) 43:4,6,11101:18 222:7

decision‐making (1)222:10

deeply (1) 53:2defiance (4) 28:18

32:25 33:1,8definite (2) 8:17 39:17definitely (6) 31:5,5

102:5,8,16 179:11del (1) 224:9delayed (1) 22:15deliberately (1) 22:5delivery (1) 3:11demeaning (1) 34:24denied (1) 70:12Denise (2) 70:18,20denying (1) 79:21department (5)

171:14,21 180:14210:18 211:23

departments (2) 171:8210:17

depend (1) 211:4depth (1) 137:10DEREK (2) 167:2 225:9describe (1) 21:7described (5) 32:2

136:13 190:19201:18 213:13

description (1) 189:17desire (1) 172:6desk (2) 83:11 123:22despite (2) 22:7 64:11detail (3) 20:8 106:17

172:20detailed (2) 99:23

211:24details (8) 16:19 17:3



17:24 20:10 23:1299:14 159:3 164:17

detrimental (2) 48:14105:20

development (2)214:19 215:8

device (4) 181:21182:18,20,25

differ (1) 94:12difference (1) 216:5different (7) 60:21

61:9 66:16 83:18130:13 186:23187:19

differentiating (1)94:21

differs (1) 99:16difficult (20) 23:20

39:10,13 50:184:16 85:19,2189:20,23 110:3111:4,5,22 118:24119:14 142:14148:17 149:2 166:2169:7

difficulties (2) 110:16164:6

direct (4) 47:12118:17 209:25210:7

direction (1) 7:25directly (2) 171:18

210:8director (23) 11:12,16

11:18 12:3,4 25:2054:3,5 68:11 69:1271:13 91:21,2294:23 96:3 108:10132:16 133:20156:8 164:14210:16 215:22223:25

directors (13) 28:965:22 87:11,16111:18 112:23113:24 122:9,23148:17 152:23153:17 213:10

Dirty (2) 26:25 104:16disagree (2) 92:16

116:4disagreeing (1) 124:20disagreement (1)

124:23disagreements (1)

110:20disciplinary (4) 93:17

187:5 211:17,22disciplinary/grievan...

212:18discipline (2) 188:1

213:3disciplined (2) 180:3

187:15disclosed (1) 160:1discount (1) 110:19discuss (10) 29:10

34:14 42:14 77:21107:13 121:9,11176:13 184:3 186:7

discussed (24) 5:136:17 9:18,19 11:2412:1 28:15 37:840:4 42:2,6 74:987:4 106:3,6,19107:7 117:18 118:3118:6 129:19 133:7148:8 193:7

discussing (16) 9:2329:18 33:21 36:22

84:17 107:5,6,9,11107:12,13 117:5118:5 131:7 148:4148:6

discussion (14) 8:1029:12,16,17 30:2330:24 31:22 86:1386:21 107:4 117:14118:8 154:8 219:19

discussions (3) 19:2529:9 165:20

disk (1) 221:2dispense (3) 152:10

152:17,20dispenser (1) 130:18dispensing (2) 149:20

222:3displayed (3) 21:21

28:18 32:24disrepute (2) 207:18

207:23distraught (1) 70:20distress (3) 105:7,16

140:10distressed (21) 10:8

15:4 16:6 17:721:18 44:21 96:2597:8,12,16,20105:14 106:13,14106:21 118:25139:3,10 140:5,18141:13

distribution (1) 213:23divide (6) 75:9 76:18

95:10,15 97:21105:24

divided (5) 12:20,2114:3 16:23,23

divisive (2) 146:1155:11

document (12) 7:767:4 160:1 161:9162:20,25 164:2166:9 178:1,17181:16 186:6

documentation (1)224:10

documented (1) 208:7documents (9) 1:24

60:5,7,12,19 61:3,7141:5 159:20

doing (24) 7:24 35:1136:1,3 47:8,23 65:468:16 79:13 146:5152:1 166:18 178:8196:22 197:4,5198:2,9,10,14199:23 200:16,18201:16

door (2) 15:1 70:22dos (1) 68:24doubt (3) 60:4 96:5

174:5doubtless (1) 60:5Dr (1) 186:5draft (1) 132:11drafted (7) 5:19 7:7

74:14 75:1 85:8108:5 132:12

drafting (3) 7:8 74:6109:11

drink (3) 39:15 40:14117:1

drinks (3) 68:21,2469:15

drive (5) 82:9,18,25149:8 157:6

duck (1) 25:9due (3) 2:21 3:9 25:22duress (1) 119:10

duties (2) 199:24215:13

duty (1) 123:12Dyson (26) 163:20,21

164:6,8,23 165:11165:21,23 166:13166:24 167:2,4,5170:9 179:22180:13 184:15,17185:6 187:20203:17 204:11205:14 220:17224:16 225:9

Dyson's (4) 164:10,19184:14,25

E

earlier (9) 29:4 32:240:7 43:8 66:7114:25 136:13165:25 180:19

early (7) 38:10 42:2486:19 96:15,15,18172:5

earth (2) 184:4 186:8easier (1) 193:1easiest (1) 18:21edit (1) 116:15effect (5) 32:23 38:7

97:18 141:3 194:18eight (5) 28:19 29:8

52:16 125:9 215:14eighth (1) 169:18eight‐page (1) 181:14either (11) 3:16 46:4

68:10 100:11123:14 150:16152:23 153:17183:11 212:20215:17

email (10) 2:6 3:6 32:832:9 34:10 162:12162:16 185:14186:2,14

emailed (1) 3:3emails (1) 186:25embarrass (2) 77:20

121:11emphatic (2) 200:11

201:1employed (1) 144:16employee (7) 28:11

133:22 179:25180:14,17 187:2193:10

employees (9) 10:728:19,22,24 29:829:23 91:13 133:23139:8

employment (1) 28:21enclosed (1) 217:24enclosing (1) 161:11encouraged (1) 64:21encouraging (5) 64:10

64:15 200:13,14201:11

endorse (1) 220:10ensure (1) 146:22ensuring (1) 171:22entire (1) 172:3entirely (1) 172:10entitled (2) 184:13,20environment (7) 51:2

51:19 138:6 140:13141:10 145:15205:2

epithets (1) 190:20equal (1) 208:20equation (2) 10:17

38:12

equipment (1) 182:7Erm (2) 9:24 83:13error (1) 122:4errors (2) 77:21

121:12especially (3) 36:12

198:25 200:4estimate (1) 165:3et (18) 2:15,15 39:22

61:20 65:1 79:25127:8 139:24161:24 171:25195:4,4 212:2,2,7,7212:19 215:10

ethos (3) 213:17,19213:21

evening (6) 160:3,24161:17,22 165:25166:2

event (2) 42:22 148:1events (2) 10:8 87:8eventuality (1) 220:20eventually (1) 22:9everybody (4) 40:23

86:25,25 136:14evidence (70) 32:22

43:23 49:15 54:2354:24 57:15,20,2160:13 61:22 63:173:14 74:5,13,1674:18 102:13108:21 112:2113:10 114:9115:22 128:9 131:6137:1 142:17 154:4158:17,25 160:8,10162:2,6 170:11172:18 173:15,23173:24 174:6,11176:23 177:4,7,11177:12,19 180:24181:1 182:24184:10,12,15,25186:18 188:5,9,9191:15 192:23193:17 194:18201:9 202:17203:12 204:23222:19 224:8,16,17224:19

evidenced (2) 113:5223:11

exact (1) 139:1exactly (10) 44:17

67:18,20 88:691:11 101:14135:21 161:5187:20 210:1

exaggerate (1) 150:24exaggerating (2) 128:8

201:17Examination‐in‐chie...

167:3 225:10example (20) 56:3

70:9 111:2,11,12111:13 123:3125:12 128:21,23129:9 144:5 153:14153:19 156:7,13186:3,4 209:5223:14

examples (6) 70:3109:11 113:3124:19 130:2 144:7

exams (3) 41:4,9,18Excellent (2) 4:16,23exchange (1) 185:20exchanged (1) 186:2exchanging (1) 185:13exit (1) 14:23

expand (1) 76:13expect (3) 214:7,8,9expected (1) 212:25expecting (2) 164:21

164:22experience (5) 78:18

89:22 143:10220:13 221:12

experienced (4) 127:7127:9 138:21221:17

explain (12) 49:2 59:162:16 63:2 64:974:24 75:2 145:22158:9 171:3 208:13210:15

explained (7) 2:1362:17 74:24 123:16158:19,23 212:16

explaining (2) 87:12158:25

explanation (4) 125:8125:9 161:20200:21

explicable (1) 199:16express (4) 105:7

132:22 189:18216:8

expressed (2) 186:25187:1

extend (1) 101:18extended (5) 101:2,10

104:7 139:21 140:3extending (1) 139:19extension (1) 104:9extent (1) 143:14extremely (2) 41:21

152:14ex‐policeman (1)

203:24eye (6) 80:6,6 150:3,3

151:7,24E/16/214 (1) 217:19E/17/215 (1) 218:6E/17/216 (1) 218:21E/21/224 (1) 221:24E/23.1/228‐1 (1)

223:14E/662.1/2049 (1)

161:13E/662/2048 (1)

161:12E/668.1/2063 (1)

159:24E/668/2062 (1)

159:21E/670/2067 (1)

160:20E/892.1/2864 (2)

20:15 97:24E/895.1/2902 (1)

125:25E/904.1/2926 (2) 24:3

100:11E/905/2927 (2) 25:18

102:12E/910.1/2936 (1)

27:12E/910.1/2939 (3) 26:6

88:19 103:25E/911/2943 (1) 19:7E/911/2944 (1) 19:8E/912/2945 (2) 18:22

27:23E/915.1/2951 (1) 28:6E/918/2959 (1) 34:4E/919/2961 (3) 37:10

134:16 135:14E/921/2970 (1) 38:6E/922/2972 (1) 38:24

E/935.1/3009 (8) 4:2110:10 44:9 83:391:18 105:13131:10 137:22

E/935/3008 (1) 84:22E/942/3082 (1) 56:7E/943/3085 (1) 56:3E/944/3088 (4) 55:22

58:11 59:16 63:10E/944/3089 (1) 68:21E/945/3091 (4) 56:10

114:21 118:10128:20

E/945/3092 (3) 121:3128:19,25

E/945/3093 (1) 122:7E/945/3094 (1) 124:8E/946/3095 (2) 56:11

146:25E/946/3096 (1) 152:8E/946/3097 (2) 56:14

156:25E/971/3187 (4) 58:18

59:14 72:11 73:11E/971/3188 (1) 78:24E11 (5) 4:14,17 72:9

82:6 131:9E11/3009 (1) 83:3E11/3091 (1) 114:20E12 (3) 4:14 58:17

72:11E15 (1) 159:10E2 (1) 217:18E8 (1) 159:17

F

fabricated (1) 24:23face (4) 184:4 186:8

215:14,15faced (1) 11:22facilitate (1) 216:20fact (41) 10:25 22:20

32:7 33:22 36:2250:6 51:22 60:480:20 91:2 93:3,894:22 96:11,11105:3,16 106:1,9108:11,23 110:2,3110:16 112:9,13113:5,8,9 116:23125:11 128:20140:11 142:16143:9 151:8 153:24166:20 197:11223:8,11

fair (26) 9:25 47:2550:4 51:4 54:7102:2 116:20 141:2141:23 142:13143:5,14 145:3162:19 172:14176:24 177:2,10188:21 189:1,12192:16 195:25196:4 201:5 223:10

fairly (2) 148:23184:16

fall (1) 190:8fallen (1) 179:15falling (1) 17:9false (5) 93:19 106:15

204:13,22 206:12falsely (3) 50:13 136:9

136:10familiar (1) 62:6fantastic (1) 105:25far (13) 39:22 48:3

54:18 86:1 89:1399:22 103:5 106:17138:2 140:1 146:20

156:20 214:2fast (3) 199:2 205:10

205:13father (1) 208:8Fatima (115) 12:13,14

12:22 13:6,8,19,2114:9,15,18,2415:11 17:13,1418:25 21:3 23:1823:25 24:6,19 25:425:17,19 26:1,7,1026:12,14 27:1528:11,15,16,18,2228:25 29:11 30:230:18 31:15 32:1532:20,22 33:19,2233:24 34:14,1744:5,7,12,15 47:1247:13,20 48:9,1350:14,19 75:7,976:15,19,22 87:2489:20 90:16 93:695:9,11,13,2496:12 97:2,25100:5,12,17,22,24102:12 103:25105:6,21 107:6125:15,21 127:6,14128:7,12 134:7,8137:16 138:3 139:4139:16 140:3,15145:23,24,24 146:1146:6,13 149:11153:8,20 154:16155:2,11,14,17,19156:5,5

Fatima's (17) 44:24,2545:5 48:17 73:188:23,24 101:6,17103:22 134:19,23134:25 135:7 136:3137:14 139:21

fault (1) 124:1fax (6) 159:3,15 160:2

160:5,11 161:3faxed (2) 161:17,18faxes (1) 86:9fearful (1) 23:18February (1) 215:24fee (1) 220:6feel (32) 14:5,13

16:12 21:23 25:945:8 46:2,12,1447:16,22 53:1577:16,18 104:20106:11,20 107:3,21108:2,17 113:20123:25 139:24140:19 141:4,5,14145:1 149:23 179:9191:21

feeling (7) 25:22 26:285:18 103:22 107:3138:13 146:21

feelings (9) 89:19 91:491:4 117:15 119:15121:13 125:10132:20 154:25

feels (4) 19:17 23:5,1198:11

feely (1) 21:20fell (1) 123:23fellow (3) 86:22

133:23 223:25felt (38) 5:16 7:24

12:9,16,19,1913:18 14:7 16:2229:20 44:8,11 54:254:2,5,7 78:3 87:989:20 94:4,17 95:6



95:8,10 101:3113:25 119:8,16123:20,25 132:19132:19 136:8137:23 138:10139:22 155:10189:23

female (4) 11:25 47:198:9 108:12

field (3) 151:22 152:2152:4

figures (2) 139:1 146:1file (1) 1:7filling (1) 201:23final (4) 125:23

167:12 204:9,18finally (5) 71:11 72:10

202:14,14 204:6find (9) 39:12 73:24

106:12 112:25127:4 159:16,17217:24 221:9

finds (1) 187:1fine (20) 20:14 33:14

47:5 70:2 83:199:11 100:10114:12 125:23127:4 144:13 169:9175:20 185:23206:17 208:12,12216:16 222:18223:6

finger (1) 181:20finish (2) 165:5,9finished (5) 40:6 114:4

149:20 163:21198:19

fire (1) 14:23first (33) 1:24 16:24

35:22 37:18 44:1061:13 62:2,5 63:965:18 73:11,1598:15 129:13131:14 134:18144:1,1,16 147:7156:25 163:21166:10 167:8170:17,19 180:10181:4,5 193:21211:7 220:4 221:2

firstly (2) 164:2 168:4fit (1) 211:18five (23) 1:13 28:18

29:8,12,13,15,1529:23 30:17 31:1831:21 32:1 40:1342:1 54:20,21,2570:22 135:8 158:4158:11,11 177:20

flick (1) 177:25flight (1) 165:22floor (26) 18:7,15

19:25 20:6 30:1336:17 50:8 52:2469:20 70:6 77:2191:25 92:7,8 95:1295:17,21 107:9121:11 132:16,17136:13 137:2,9155:8 157:7

follow (1) 187:11followed (1) 100:12following (6) 12:12

34:13 36:18 86:16181:15 224:24

follows (2) 129:2144:13

food (1) 36:20force (1) 1:17forced (1) 28:21

form (3) 150:11212:20 220:5

formal (16) 16:15 24:524:10,20 25:4 27:427:7 33:22 47:1047:12,23 48:8100:18 104:4 117:2218:8

formally (4) 3:18,203:21 38:7

formed (1) 174:11forms (2) 174:5

212:23forth (1) 110:17forward (8) 59:21,24

60:13 119:3 149:9157:7 173:16 218:1

forwards (1) 143:16foul (1) 190:8found (4) 34:21 93:12

93:19 215:22four (27) 5:2 9:3 22:25

30:3,4 32:1 34:1835:12,21,23,2436:4 40:10 52:267:23,24 95:19131:17 148:24172:23 173:4,6175:14 178:25181:19 196:9204:25

fourth (1) 2:22four‐hour (2) 181:24

206:11frame (6) 68:16,17

111:6,7,7 122:13frames (1) 122:20fraud (6) 79:13 122:5

204:14,22 205:5206:13

fraudulent (3) 79:12121:15,23

free (1) 158:3freely (3) 84:19 106:6

107:14frequently (1) 116:25Friday (5) 19:7 42:16

160:24 161:22165:22

friend (4) 164:1165:19 169:8 184:9

friends (1) 133:17frightened (3) 53:16

145:2 203:16Frondigoun (24) 15:25

16:1 81:6,9,10172:17,19 173:14173:15 174:15176:23 177:7179:25 181:13187:2,10,21 189:8189:22 190:11191:20 196:21200:20 206:10

Frondigoun's (5)170:11 172:18174:11 193:15202:16

front (8) 22:6 30:1973:5,15 77:1883:11 86:13 149:4

frustrated (1) 124:25fully (4) 85:14,23 91:1

212:13funeral (1) 71:1funny (2) 43:21 76:4further (2) 38:7

129:12

G

gather (1) 224:4gathering (4) 118:2

148:2,3,3general (5) 19:21,23

20:1 32:6 44:8generally (4) 118:4,5

155:3 202:25generated (1) 178:17gentleman (2) 58:4

152:14genuinely (2) 119:8,16getting (6) 66:5 138:5

138:7 162:23 204:1209:7

Girollet (5) 24:13,1425:2 34:10 100:15

gist (1) 188:3give (20) 25:12 26:24

57:15 70:9 84:2099:14 104:16111:13 121:4 123:3158:24 170:22179:24 181:1 211:2214:12,19 221:6,13221:14

given (19) 14:7 25:1151:23 60:12 75:776:15 95:11 96:8133:2 138:11141:12 146:10150:19 154:13161:20 165:21188:5 198:20224:16

gives (3) 96:23 149:15175:1

giving (15) 3:10 14:1325:21 54:22 87:23108:21 113:3153:14 180:24185:8 192:22193:16 220:4221:11 224:17

Gladstone (2) 13:1587:1

glasses (1) 130:13global (2) 164:14

210:12go (57) 1:6,8 6:20,25

7:3 18:19 19:6,924:3 26:22 27:1136:9 40:7 42:1452:18 55:21 70:1383:3 85:11 88:1894:3 96:12 100:10103:25 107:19115:4 117:25124:25 125:24128:19,25 129:12130:22 131:9138:23 145:7 149:7152:9 155:16 157:3158:3 159:20 172:2172:21 173:1174:22 178:19181:12 190:20199:2,5 205:13206:20 212:14215:12,14 220:20

goes (9) 14:6 16:822:8,19 47:1 48:1980:1 118:17 138:17

going (71) 1:9,17 2:44:13,15 7:25 11:1511:19,21 12:213:24 15:12 18:230:17 32:17 35:1937:16 38:2 40:1143:5,20 44:1 46:846:10,13,19 54:21

57:15 60:24 61:487:6,13 89:2594:11 99:11 105:12108:25 110:17117:25 128:8 132:1135:24 137:21140:7 142:23146:23 147:16148:10 154:19163:18,20 170:18177:22 178:9 184:9184:23 186:3187:12 188:3,4198:1 202:4 205:10207:17 216:1,5220:7,8 221:15,17223:16

good (14) 29:10 33:251:5 53:23 54:3,489:18 119:12121:12 138:6144:13 174:14188:21 204:5

gossip (2) 31:24 72:6govern (1) 166:21Grays (1) 221:23Grazia (1) 224:9great (2) 62:9 173:14grievance (127) 5:14

6:20,25 7:2 8:1115:11,19 16:10,1716:18,19 17:4,1717:25 19:1,3,620:14,14 21:6,8,1221:13 24:5,1025:17,18 26:7,2027:4,7,22 34:3,636:23 40:4,8,1141:2 42:1,4,15 44:444:4,6 46:21 47:147:12 48:12,13,1648:17 49:7 52:1653:21 63:22 64:1666:10 88:22,23,2489:3 97:25 98:2,1598:16,22 99:5,7,999:12,12,13 100:3100:7 103:14 104:1104:4,6,9,24 105:1105:4,19,21 106:3106:5,18 107:2,8107:15 109:15119:2,4,5,8,16,18119:19,21,25 120:9120:12,13,14125:12 128:22129:10,23 130:7133:5 134:19,20,23134:25 135:7,10,19136:4 139:13,16,22155:5 159:24161:18 211:18213:3

grievances (86) 15:4,915:10 16:6,8,11,1416:16 17:3,7,1225:14 27:14,1933:19 36:12 37:7,837:12,15,19 39:2244:2,21,24,25 45:546:8 47:11,19,2448:4,9,23 63:1264:10,15,22 65:1165:25 66:6 73:193:5 96:2,25 97:897:12,14,17,22,23103:21 105:6,14,17105:23 106:2,6,23107:6,7 118:15,19118:19 120:7,10,11

120:16,20,21 125:7125:17,21 130:3134:6,18 135:11139:3,9,10 140:11140:18 141:6,13142:7 213:9

group (6) 12:19 31:1832:1 209:10 213:14215:18

grow (1) 221:15growth (1) 207:3Guernsey (1) 100:15guess (2) 43:17 149:3guidelines (2) 211:13

213:5guilty (1) 215:23Gulamali (3) 26:8,12

27:15Gulamali/Khan (1)

27:4guy (7) 71:15,23

180:12,20 189:19189:24 190:4

H

H (1) 127:20habit (1) 133:16half (1) 26:23hand (5) 28:20 29:24

30:1 31:12 70:23handed (9) 4:14 29:3

73:21 88:4 102:14108:7 162:11169:11 185:4

handovers (2) 149:17149:18

handwriting (3) 62:9218:20 219:6

handwritten (2) 60:2061:1

hand‐delivered (1)67:7

hanging (1) 164:20happen (7) 50:17

117:21 139:1189:21 216:5,10220:8

happened (22) 10:1118:18 30:11 50:1652:19 59:19 74:2582:15 85:20,2187:8 89:14 106:9117:22 124:21142:20 181:13184:21 189:20191:22 192:1200:23

happening (6) 1:1041:19 87:11,17119:1 185:2

happy (11) 1:23 51:274:3 76:1 91:10103:9 115:16145:15 164:18166:5 219:1

harassed (1) 21:23harassing (2) 46:22

93:13harassment (14)

17:19,21,22,2447:24 48:8,12 98:7103:22 133:22135:15 136:4139:14 140:2

hard (3) 8:16 64:6122:14

harm (1) 51:18Hart (3) 185:13,19,20Hart's (1) 186:11head (28) 7:4 15:13

16:13,15 24:11,1325:2 37:23 40:742:5 43:24 45:946:3,8,15 47:13,1754:8,9 63:19 79:1786:9 108:3,18109:2 140:21141:16 180:13

headed (1) 124:16header (1) 160:2heading (1) 104:14hear (13) 50:21 79:19

80:10 98:20 106:14106:15 124:18135:16 137:7143:21 170:11172:17,17

heard (16) 70:5 80:297:11 99:24 110:7114:8 124:13,17131:6 142:11144:16,19,21152:15 183:10215:18

hearing (4) 98:14 99:5138:22 210:10

hearsay (5) 60:10173:16,17,22181:17

heavy (1) 203:11held (9) 55:24 180:22

181:3 183:6,16,19187:7,13 194:21

Helen (4) 4:7 87:291:4 225:2

hello (1) 170:9Helly (1) 186:5help (6) 58:10 72:24

74:20 132:2 134:20165:24

helped (4) 74:3,6,1876:1

hesitate (1) 31:24high (3) 152:14 208:25

215:7highly (1) 59:20Hilton (22) 2:20,21,23

2:24 3:6,15,21 5:105:25 18:8 55:14,1556:15,18 57:1,7,2358:4,9 61:15,21115:3

Hm‐mm (60) 5:4 11:613:10 23:8,2324:12 27:6,17 32:732:11 36:5 43:2549:1 58:14,16 64:866:3 69:23 70:1175:14,19 79:580:15 84:2 87:1588:9 89:2,8 90:2098:10 100:21103:19,24 104:2,18104:22 115:6,14117:10 124:9127:16 135:18136:6 137:13139:15 142:22144:20 147:10148:15,22,25150:20 154:17155:21 156:6 157:8157:17 179:7 198:4200:6

hoc (1) 102:3hold (9) 3:15 162:11

183:17,21,23186:16,23 187:9,10

holding (6) 121:12187:18 219:11,13

221:25 222:12hole (3) 26:23 36:10

73:11holepunch (12) 19:10

24:25 44:10 63:965:18 77:12 115:7121:3 123:4 129:13147:7 156:25

holepunches (2)104:14 113:1

holiday (3) 127:19,23163:9

home (3) 160:25161:23 196:11

honest (6) 65:1385:10 88:15 92:3135:3 199:7

honestly (9) 66:17141:1 142:12147:16 155:23156:2,23 175:24214:9

honesty (4) 214:13,25214:25 215:5

hope (1) 169:8Hornby (19) 3:24 5:10

5:25 18:8 56:981:22,23,25 82:1,382:6 114:8,20126:6 130:6,21142:17 147:22225:4

Hornby's (1) 114:4hospital (6) 52:22,25

82:9,18,21,25hostile (1) 177:17hotel (8) 55:14,15

56:15,18 57:2461:15 115:2 147:5

hours (12) 9:3 175:6175:14 178:21,25179:5 181:19,23196:9 197:15201:10 204:25

housekeeping/witn...1:4

hovering (1) 23:10huddles (2) 14:19

138:20huddling (3) 127:7,9

128:7huge (1) 201:25humbly (1) 60:15Hummell (13) 3:24

37:25 38:2 56:1161:20 130:25 131:2131:4,5 134:13138:14 158:3 225:7

Hurry (1) 70:24hurtful (1) 53:2husband (5) 103:9

160:12,14 162:3192:25

hypothetical (9)183:22 188:2,14,15192:13,17 195:24196:2 206:13

Hypothetically (1)192:14

I

idea (1) 152:20Ignore (1) 111:10ignores (1) 149:15immediate (1) 38:7immediately (1) 1:23impartial (1) 157:18imperative (1) 207:2importance (1) 171:4important (3) 132:15



132:20 214:22impossible (1) 53:18impression (4) 38:21

132:25 133:2141:12

improper (10) 47:7108:6,9,13 172:6190:13,14,18201:18 206:14

improperly (1) 98:12improve (1) 130:12inappropriate (9) 22:3

23:6 34:24 98:12186:15 187:4,14,25188:18

inappropriately (1)99:21

inasmuch (1) 138:3incident (15) 46:19

68:14,21 69:14,1571:9 117:4 121:17124:22 152:7,8,21153:4,8 156:5

incidents (7) 68:1069:12 83:2 87:1787:19,20 125:2

inclined (1) 165:6include (1) 107:22included (5) 41:1

105:9 182:1 185:14186:3

includes (1) 210:18including (2) 61:18

186:1incoming (1) 216:21inconvenient (1)

164:19incorrect (2) 122:1

161:4INDEX (1) 225:1indication (3) 96:24

211:2 214:12indications (1) 165:21individual (5) 217:17

220:7,10 221:3222:25

individually (1) 55:16influence (1) 147:9influenced (6) 115:9

115:19 116:18118:14 120:19128:22

influencing (1) 115:24inform (3) 217:22

222:1,7informal (2) 31:25

118:2information (4) 90:2,4

91:3 224:5informed (9) 22:1 25:1

25:3 28:17 32:1934:19 36:16,19216:18

initially (1) 108:5injury (1) 208:3input (3) 7:10 90:25

223:24insert (1) 90:18install (1) 224:9installed (1) 224:12instance (3) 111:6

112:17 118:21instantaneously (1)

88:3instigated (4) 49:13

49:19 130:11 142:8instructed (1) 34:20instructing (1) 1:25instructions (4) 57:17

57:19 154:13 164:2

instrumental (1) 141:6insurance (5) 204:14

204:22 205:5,12206:12

intended (1) 96:10intends (1) 25:4intention (3) 24:20

100:18 190:17intentions (2) 216:17

216:18interesting (1) 105:10interests (2) 28:14

130:10interview (58) 38:1

54:16 55:24 57:658:8,13,19 60:1,960:11,15 61:13,1372:10,16,17 77:2478:2,6 80:13 114:5116:8 128:19 147:1150:19,25 154:3,6154:7 156:24173:24 175:5178:10,11,20 180:1180:15 181:5,6,14181:15,18,24187:24 189:23190:22 191:11192:10,12,16193:12,22 195:21200:9,23 201:10204:12 206:11

interviewed (12) 38:456:4,6,10,11,2557:5 58:4 134:13146:24 174:3 195:6

interviewing (3)174:15 180:2 196:1

interviews (5) 56:1959:22,25 60:17211:24

intimidated (3) 53:1577:16 145:1

intimidating (10)53:20 202:22,23,23203:5,7,8,10,14,20

intranet (1) 212:22Inverted (1) 200:1investigated (6) 27:15

36:12 37:19 99:7,9223:9

investigating (4) 27:1937:12 72:24 73:1

investigation (15)37:15 55:24 56:19174:16,18,19180:14 184:21188:24 189:13,23196:1 203:20211:17 223:22

invite (1) 129:2invoices (1) 223:16involve (7) 50:8 51:1

113:17,20 143:13143:15 145:14

involved (12) 13:1630:24 42:10,1190:21 113:18,19115:18 209:2,7222:9,11

involvement (1) 7:8in‐store (2) 10:8,10issue (28) 8:11 21:16

21:24 27:25 34:1550:7 86:6 87:24110:17 111:1122:13,16 124:10129:16 140:12143:15 152:9 166:7167:20 185:13

193:9 204:7 209:2209:7,16 210:1211:8 222:22

issued (8) 111:8,9,14111:17 112:16,17112:21 121:18

issues (18) 28:2448:23 50:7 52:8,1465:22 78:20 106:2109:16 118:12142:7 143:19,22144:11 157:2159:10 174:20180:3

issuing (1) 113:4item (2) 117:24

159:14

J

Jas (101) 12:12,14,2213:6,8,18,21 14:914:24 15:12,1717:12,14,17 18:2520:23 21:7,13 22:323:17,25 24:6,1926:24 27:14 33:1936:16,22,24 40:1944:5,7,11,15,23,2545:5 46:21 47:5,1047:19,19 48:12,1563:16 66:8,16 73:175:7,9 76:15,19,2293:6,10,11 95:9,1195:13,24 96:11,1797:2,25 98:15,17100:6,7,7,17 102:9102:10 104:16105:6,21 107:6,7107:12,14 109:13125:15,18,21 127:5127:13 128:7,12133:5 134:6 136:14137:4,11 138:3139:4,13 140:15142:3 145:23,24146:1 149:11

Jas's (8) 98:1,16100:11 103:21134:19 135:10,11137:2

Jas/Fatima (1) 20:15JK (1) 23:16job (14) 22:11 33:15

69:14 88:7 89:14103:5 130:17 197:5200:17,18 203:21209:14 210:6,6

jobs (2) 23:19 68:14jog (1) 84:24John (16) 93:5 118:21

119:3,8,10,13,16120:7,9,13 125:12125:21 128:23129:10 130:7,15

joined (2) 42:22220:25

joint (6) 209:9 213:13213:25 214:3,16222:2

journey (3) 103:6,7,9judge (1) 59:1July (6) 61:2 72:11

147:3 168:15 195:1195:5

June (39) 8:15 9:8,109:10 10:19 17:2518:23 27:24 28:629:3 32:9 34:2,9,936:7,15 37:6,9,1838:18 39:14 55:5,8

55:19 58:11 61:161:13 73:15,1683:14,22 85:887:16 102:18,23,24134:14 150:7 154:4

junior (3) 93:13 98:9108:11

JUSTICE (144) 1:3,151:17,20 2:2,7,10,122:17,20 3:1,13,173:21,25 4:3,5,9,128:21,23 9:6 15:2217:10,16 33:15,1735:8,13 45:10 48:753:9,12 54:17,2055:4 57:12,17,2160:3,8,18,23 61:6,961:12 67:23 75:1580:25 81:3,5,9,1181:14,17,25 82:3,5114:6,13,19 120:25126:5,8 128:16130:6,16,19 131:1131:4 138:14,16157:25 158:2,6,9158:11,15,18,22159:2,7,11,13,16159:18,22,25 160:4160:13,17,21 161:2161:6,25 162:5,8162:13,15,17,21163:1,7,10,12,18163:23 164:4,13,17164:25 165:6,9,16166:2,5,11,14,22167:4,22,25 168:14177:2,12,15,22178:24 184:13,19185:3 189:4,6,11189:15 190:1205:14,19 210:8,14220:24 221:20224:15,21

JV (6) 186:5,17,17,20186:24 223:25

JVP (2) 212:11 215:11JVPs (9) 211:20

212:10,24 213:2,7213:13,22 214:8215:5

K

Kam (206) 6:14,16,237:6,14,16 8:6 9:239:25 10:9 11:8,1211:16,18,22,2412:1,3,4 15:1916:17,18,19 17:417:25 18:2,5,6,9,2319:4,17,22 20:2,220:12 21:2,1722:21 23:19 25:1125:23 26:3,2427:20,24 28:329:17 30:9 32:433:18,24,25 34:337:8,19 42:7 43:1643:19,20 44:246:24 47:7,2448:24 49:7 50:1,850:10,13,18,20,2250:23 51:1,5,12,2254:3,8,9 63:13,2264:1,3 65:12 66:1,666:10 68:17 69:1669:18,21,21 71:773:2 80:20,2184:10 85:4 87:1890:9 91:16,19,2191:24 92:8,15,19

92:25 93:2,20,2194:8,14,16 96:298:7 99:15,18,24100:8,13 103:3,15103:23 105:4,18,20107:11 108:13109:3 110:11,13,14110:21 111:9112:14,17 113:17113:18,20 115:9,19116:18,21 117:7118:3,6,12,15,19119:6,17 120:7121:10 122:16123:7,20 124:5,12124:13,16,18,20,23129:23 130:8,11132:10,14,18,22,24133:1,3,8 135:2,4135:17,19 136:3,22136:25 137:12139:23 142:8,14,24143:13,17 145:8,11145:13,14,17 147:9147:17 153:15155:24 156:5,8,14157:6,11,15

Kamaljit (1) 34:7Kam's (4) 11:13 92:10

92:14 152:8Kaur (8) 217:12,19

218:25 219:21220:11 221:21223:4,4

keen (1) 4:4keep (4) 40:13 69:7

73:3 94:7keeping (1) 58:17kept (10) 41:19 69:3

70:21 151:25164:20 175:25,25181:19,20 206:3

Kevin (20) 18:25 19:419:7,12,16 20:4,5,527:22,25 40:2193:6 105:3,9,10109:25 120:14,15129:1,15

Kevin's (7) 19:6,2120:2,8,9 104:24105:1

key (1) 42:24keys (1) 221:11Khan (13) 21:3 24:19

26:8,9,10,11 28:1128:16,22 30:2,1831:15 48:9

Khan's (1) 28:25Khunkhuna (3) 20:23

24:19 27:14kind (7) 17:18 135:15

175:23,23 179:13180:10 185:1

knew (34) 6:3,1610:19 15:12 18:718:20 26:11 39:144:24 45:5 46:1063:7 89:24 93:5,993:12 100:3,9103:21 110:8,10,15136:14 137:2139:14 142:10183:19 191:22217:1,2,6,11,14,15

know (213) 5:11 6:2,56:16,20 8:21 9:410:15,16 11:1512:10 13:23 15:115:11,11 16:19,2017:5,5,11,14,14,16

17:18 18:1,17 19:219:3,4 21:9,10,1121:11 24:14 26:926:10,16 31:1,3,6,831:24 32:16 33:1337:4 38:23 39:2,540:16 41:17 43:1744:19 45:4,15,1746:6,7,9,16 47:1848:17 49:21 52:1352:15 53:3 57:3,3,457:25 58:3,3,8,959:17,20 64:17,2066:18,23,23 67:269:1,3,9,10 71:2072:2,21,21,22,2273:3,3 74:23 75:1775:17,20 76:4,577:4,7,8,9,19,2378:10 80:10 82:1483:15,18 84:2386:8,10,24 87:2588:4,5,12 89:1390:6,8 92:6 93:8,1693:16 95:2 96:2197:14 101:1,14,17102:5 103:20105:10,25 107:16107:22 109:14110:20 114:1 117:1119:1,5,7,8 120:13120:16,23 122:3123:2 125:15132:11,12 133:21133:24,25 134:8,12134:23 135:1,3,6135:23 136:11137:15,24 139:17141:1,22 143:5,8,8144:24,24 146:18147:21 148:17154:13,18,22156:15 158:19164:13,17 166:22174:14 175:25176:16,19,19,22178:22,23 182:8,17182:19 183:15,21185:21 192:12195:16,16,24196:11,11 206:7,7206:13 207:10210:3 216:24 219:8224:16

knowing (2) 39:11134:10

knowledge (7) 39:749:22 79:22 93:16110:6 182:21223:24

known (2) 10:22139:18

knows (2) 1:11 157:18knuckles (1) 203:1Ko (3) 93:5 118:21

120:7Ko's (2) 120:9 130:7KS (2) 21:20 23:9KS's (2) 21:16 77:15Kushinder (1) 2:8

L

lab (12) 18:25 19:720:6 70:18 87:1109:22,25 118:21119:1 130:9,12152:13

lady (1) 183:14laid (1) 215:6Laing (3) 84:21 85:1,5

language (2) 190:2,7lantalic (1) 152:17laptop (1) 182:12Larraine (12) 15:23,24

16:2 63:21 66:1681:4,5 87:1 109:15109:17,18,19

lasted (5) 175:6,10177:19 178:21181:19

latches (1) 121:8late (5) 14:15,16

96:15 215:18 216:1latest (2) 103:20

161:8Laura (2) 37:25,25lead (2) 92:22 184:9leader (1) 94:25leading (1) 169:8learn (2) 17:3 28:10learned (1) 164:1leave (19) 8:25 27:25

42:24,25 46:451:21 96:15,18101:13,21 102:7108:16,19 126:13126:15,18 128:5189:16 190:20

leaving (1) 93:14led (7) 1:22 78:7

123:16 132:16194:3,9,19

leering (1) 21:22left (14) 7:8 28:11

36:20 42:8 79:1780:6 87:4 88:2150:3 151:24 153:8153:20 158:16208:18

left‐hand (1) 174:23legal (1) 211:23lend (1) 157:21length (2) 160:22

162:2lens (3) 152:15,18,18letter (209) 1:14,24,25

2:24,25 4:19,24 5:25:3,7,9,12,15,186:4,11,13,16,177:10,12 8:15 9:149:17 10:4 12:10,2513:16 16:4,1417:11,17 18:9 21:721:9 24:16 29:1632:23 43:3,3,4,7,943:11,14,20,2444:7,9,24 45:3,550:3 52:7 53:1154:1,8 55:6,17 59:860:9,10,14 61:2362:1,4,7,17,25 63:363:6,11 64:11,2465:10,22,24 66:473:13,14,16,20,2174:4,7,9,12,14,1974:20,21 75:1,6,1575:20,21,24,2576:3,11,14 77:578:4,5,7,8,10,11,1478:17,22 80:16,1780:18 83:3,6 84:1885:6,13,24 86:1,787:6,20,21 90:1890:23,25 91:2,6,1091:12,18 94:1,7,995:3,4,5 96:6,20,2296:22,23,24 97:1999:16 100:13102:17 105:3,12,25106:12 107:20



108:20,22,23 109:1112:8,24 113:6,12113:15,15 115:5,25116:1,6,9 117:19117:23,25 118:11129:23,24 131:10131:16 132:3,4,8132:11,13 134:5,15143:4,6 145:6,17145:19,22 146:19147:9 148:5,7,8,21149:4,24 150:12160:24 161:10,15161:22 217:22,24218:5 219:11,13222:12

letters (1) 220:1let's (18) 4:17,19

18:19,21 46:458:10 83:3 91:1894:7 103:25 134:11163:15 164:7166:24 189:6,7,16209:5

level (9) 24:24 76:21201:12 208:25209:23 210:1 215:7224:6,7

level‐headed (1)41:21

lie (10) 6:7 32:21112:12,13 197:23197:25 198:14,22199:1,25

lied (1) 6:9lies (1) 53:6light (2) 36:13 177:3lightly (1) 68:8lights (1) 151:24likes (1) 208:16line (40) 168:12 175:4

175:11,15 177:25178:19 179:3,17,18190:22 191:7,17,18192:20 193:25194:4,5,6,15 195:1195:3 196:7,21197:9,19 198:19199:3,6 201:21202:17 204:7,17205:11,14,18,18,23205:24 206:1 211:7

lines (9) 84:3 117:11126:9 135:8 162:16186:1 190:9 191:4197:22

list (4) 2:22 169:5,11169:16

listed (3) 169:13,14210:17

listen (4) 112:15,15157:5 166:14

listened (1) 15:2literally (1) 210:2literature (1) 213:14little (10) 18:19

129:12 151:24159:19,20 165:24165:25 166:8 195:8209:3

lives (1) 23:19living (1) 79:2load (2) 76:2 211:4lock (1) 68:22locum (2) 23:9 124:10London (1) 103:6long (21) 8:7,7,17,18

13:23 17:1 20:542:8 87:8,14,20103:6 132:3 138:14

164:15,20,22178:24 206:6208:19 211:24

longer (10) 4:2 10:2011:5 36:1 53:754:19 76:23 175:10178:21 216:12

long‐term (1) 215:9look (11) 10:3 28:21

60:19 91:18 99:25129:2 166:9 173:1218:1,20 221:12

looked (3) 58:1203:10,11

looking (11) 8:1519:18 59:10 61:670:23 128:13 132:8141:19 160:9173:10,11

looks (3) 26:25 104:16219:15

Lord (32) 1:4 3:14 4:145:11 48:10 53:1354:15 59:23 60:675:17 80:23 81:13114:3 128:15,18130:25 158:4,16160:19 162:9164:10,15 165:13165:14,18,23 169:9176:24 177:24184:9,23 185:5

Lordship (25) 1:5,101:11 2:3,11,23 3:664:14 74:5,13,2594:14 112:10113:10 159:23160:23 161:1,9,12163:13 166:4,20167:15 177:16187:1

Lordship's (1) 166:19Lorraine (20) 13:15

15:14,16,17,20,2215:25 16:1 66:979:11,13,17 81:1,681:9,10 121:13,17122:4 173:15

lose (21) 11:12,1812:3,4 23:18 52:2354:5 91:21,2292:25 93:20,2194:14 132:10,14,18132:22,24 133:1,2145:13

losing (1) 93:2loss (3) 28:1 171:13

171:20lost (4) 2:14 87:16

173:3 183:5lot (19) 14:15 17:1

20:4 42:3,4,1568:25 69:1 89:2189:22,23 95:24119:10 151:25163:3 175:19,24178:21 212:16

loud (2) 80:8 151:20Lucy (39) 5:10,13,15

5:25 6:4,6,6,11 7:98:4 18:8 29:1438:20 43:9,12,1543:23 44:3 45:2045:21 52:18,20,2252:24 56:9 63:774:8,20,25 75:178:13 81:22,23126:10 131:24,25137:18 142:11225:4

lunch (3) 22:22 36:20114:10

lunches (1) 14:17lunchtime (2) 4:4

123:15lying (2) 29:19,20

M

machine (6) 160:5,7175:12,16,17 176:4

majority (1) 54:18making (19) 21:23

24:1,5 31:11 49:2053:3 91:14 98:1299:12 100:23,24108:12 143:2150:25 151:2178:13 197:20200:16 201:12

male (1) 46:21malice (1) 172:5man (2) 71:18 160:14manage (1) 221:9management (1)

212:17manager (3) 92:8,19

221:23managing (1) 171:22manipulate (1) 190:15manner (6) 21:21 23:4

172:15 188:21192:16 202:25

manual (5) 211:10212:3,4,5,15

manuscript (3) 58:13178:12 218:16

March (1) 195:7Mark (1) 209:11marketing (1) 212:7marks (1) 77:14married (2) 22:24

103:8Mars (1) 198:3massive (2) 97:21

106:2match (1) 221:19maternity (8) 8:25

101:12,21 102:7126:13,15,18 128:5

matter (17) 1:4 18:2542:3 106:1 108:23116:23 118:4,5138:11 166:16167:8 168:20182:13 210:5 216:3220:1 222:6

matters (9) 39:22129:3 133:16158:24 160:15168:16 207:21213:3 223:8

McAlindon (58)171:16 173:24174:3,15 176:20180:1,22 181:3,6181:15 182:18,21183:6,10 185:17187:1,5 188:10,11188:19,22 189:8190:11,21,24191:12 192:9 194:2194:9,19,21 195:13195:21 196:1,9,23197:1,11 198:1,8199:11 200:8 201:9201:16 202:21203:13,23 204:24205:8 206:5,10210:23,25 211:1223:12,22 224:2,11

McAlindon's (5) 183:8193:11 203:19210:18,20

mean (27) 8:16 12:1831:1,24 87:22 95:7105:9 109:10,12,12139:18 150:18165:12 181:4 182:6183:16 189:1 196:4198:14 203:23208:11 214:7215:21 217:3220:16,19 223:3

meaning (1) 190:5means (7) 14:3 64:20

104:12 130:22179:4 220:17,17

meant (10) 13:2 41:741:15 83:20 94:10109:14 137:25142:3,19 166:3

meet (3) 57:8,11,23meeting (50) 8:1

11:22 15:13 20:2121:11,12 33:2234:20 37:24 39:1539:15,25 40:1,142:14 43:2 47:1156:13 57:10,2559:2 61:10 62:2062:21,22,23 63:1966:22 67:4 73:1598:1,25 99:1,6,6114:22 116:24,25117:2,3 119:1147:23,24,25 148:1150:7 154:7 155:14156:21 161:11

meetings (14) 34:8,1234:15,22,23,2436:17,18 60:21,2561:7 209:12 210:7217:10

Mel (1) 196:12member (12) 20:22

21:22 33:12 38:2049:9 52:23,2464:19 72:6 98:9102:11 188:8

members (43) 1:1311:25 12:24 13:1124:18 29:12 31:1531:22 34:16,1935:4 36:21 39:1648:22 49:3,14,2261:17 63:12 64:1764:21 65:11,2566:5 68:15 82:1986:22 98:19 100:17107:14 108:12109:7,20 117:4118:9,11 121:5137:8 141:4 142:6142:9 185:25215:13

memo (32) 79:11,19110:18,18,18,20111:2,6,8,9,10,14111:18 112:16,18112:21,22 113:21113:22,23 114:1121:14,18,19,25122:16,17,19,21,25123:3 143:16

memory (2) 130:1134:21

memos (5) 110:17111:16 113:4122:17 153:5

Mentally (1) 119:12

mention (13) 6:1463:5 69:15,18 92:192:17 105:3 117:23150:16,17 152:7,21153:4

mentioned (14) 3:48:2 18:6 67:2 69:14106:8 134:1 138:19149:3,24 150:10152:12 155:13164:11

mentions (3) 78:23148:18 149:2

mess (1) 4:1met (7) 26:17 37:21

57:5 58:23 59:4,5,7Michael (2) 220:4

222:12middle (5) 54:22

114:9 115:12 173:7224:17

Mike (2) 209:12 216:7mind (5) 139:13

144:18 169:9208:11 219:8

mine (1) 209:25minus‐21 (1) 152:16minute (3) 10:23 38:3

158:4minutes (14) 43:1

54:20,22,25 63:1470:22 125:9 148:24158:11,11 161:19162:10 175:7177:20

miscarriage (4) 52:2153:1 79:4 82:11

mislead (1) 195:25misled (3) 194:3,10

195:22missed (6) 41:4,8,15

41:17 116:13151:24

misstating (1) 201:16mistake (3) 77:17

79:14 121:18mistakes (1) 77:20misunderstanding (2)

194:10 195:22moment (13) 5:8 11:3

30:6 44:19 53:13114:5,6 162:5186:19 191:5194:17 224:14,15

Monday (4) 2:23 9:2,4202:20

money (5) 2:14 99:1999:20 157:21221:16

month (1) 211:3months (2) 101:17

149:9morning (24) 2:22

15:14 56:4,15 63:164:13 66:18 70:1772:18 74:6,1684:15 85:11 86:1186:14,19 98:2,14125:24 147:5163:15 165:22166:1 203:12

morning's (1) 131:6motivate (1) 157:6mouth (1) 142:2move (3) 22:7,10 34:2moved (1) 135:11moving (1) 55:5Mushtaq (2) 192:25

199:10mustn't (2) 54:23

113:23

N

name (6) 26:12 55:1769:2 84:13,21132:13

nature (6) 19:23 48:1678:1 98:16 101:9214:2

near (2) 123:15204:11

necessarily (1) 205:1necessary (3) 101:3

124:2 164:20need (18) 4:2,13

26:22 48:7 70:1382:14 157:6 158:9166:17 181:7 184:7184:10 193:5 204:9204:18 206:18216:14 224:6

needed (2) 123:7199:7

needs (6) 3:11,18 22:6112:20 221:16222:24

neither (4) 13:1234:18 110:24 112:2

never (40) 11:24 12:114:18 18:4,4,6 20:521:21 33:24,2537:8 47:19,19 49:550:16,20 51:14,1852:4,4,6 64:2,16,1869:5,6 70:1 71:2572:3 106:7 118:6152:15 157:2192:22,23 193:16193:17 199:13,13219:8

new (4) 19:18 88:7138:11 221:14

NHS (9) 79:13 81:7121:15,17,24 122:5196:23 197:6 198:6

nice (9) 71:14,23106:14 140:6180:12,20 189:19189:24 190:4

niggles (1) 121:9night (2) 88:19,21Niki (1) 220:11Nim (6) 71:16,20

85:20 92:12 180:12190:4

Nimesh (6) 180:18189:17,19,24217:22,25

nine (3) 63:25 64:3210:10

nine‐ish (1) 86:19ninth (1) 169:18nonsense (1) 201:25non‐Specsavers (2)

111:7 122:20normally (1) 86:18note (7) 21:12 55:24

58:20 60:1 65:5160:4 191:11

noted (4) 120:5150:19,25 197:25

notes (11) 56:2 59:1659:20 60:9,11,15150:25 151:2,5156:21 178:12

note‐taker (2) 38:1151:5

notice (13) 20:2225:21 31:12 38:860:10 88:1,2

161:11,13 173:22175:19,24 181:17

notices (2) 173:16,17notifying (1) 209:17notion (1) 107:25November (2) 217:11

217:19NUGEE (144) 1:3,15

1:17,20 2:2,7,10,122:17,20 3:1,13,173:21,25 4:3,5,9,128:21,23 9:6 15:2217:10,16 33:15,1735:8,13 45:10 48:753:9,12 54:17,2055:4 57:12,17,2160:3,8,18,23 61:6,961:12 67:23 75:1580:25 81:3,5,9,1181:14,17,25 82:3,5114:6,13,19 120:25126:5,8 128:16130:6,16,19 131:1131:4 138:14,16157:25 158:2,6,9158:11,15,18,22159:2,7,11,13,16159:18,22,25 160:4160:13,17,21 161:2161:6,25 162:5,8162:13,15,17,21163:1,7,10,12,18163:23 164:4,13,17164:25 165:6,9,16166:2,5,11,14,22167:4,22,25 168:14177:2,12,15,22178:24 184:13,19185:3 189:4,6,11189:15 190:1205:14,19 210:8,14220:24 221:20224:15,21

number (20) 3:4,2221:25 22:12 55:1561:17 85:17 86:896:16 160:4,5,11167:17,18 169:13170:24 172:25173:2,10 223:16

numbers (1) 173:7

O

oath (5) 68:5,8 188:8188:11 201:9

object (1) 169:8objected (1) 159:5objection (2) 162:23

165:17objections (2) 90:6

166:8obligations (2) 212:15

213:10obtain (1) 218:12obviously (50) 9:13

10:11 11:13 13:815:10 20:6 24:1349:15 52:11 58:2158:22 65:23 67:669:2 71:19 77:478:25 83:23 85:2085:25 87:2 89:2193:1 99:3,22 101:1101:12 103:11106:1 108:7 116:11117:15,18 119:13119:21 120:13123:17 124:17,19128:14 131:12138:5 139:18



171:16 201:22208:14,19,24 215:4221:21

occasion (14) 22:139:23 49:8 61:2362:23,24 64:2173:15 82:9,22,25117:14 127:10,11

occasionally (3)193:22 199:20,23

occasions (13) 13:2514:2 21:25 22:1382:11 96:17 101:25102:1 127:2,4128:6,7 157:22

October (7) 1:1,24 2:12:6,24 3:2,7

odd (3) 73:18,22,24offer (4) 217:23 218:8

218:11 219:1office (20) 7:4 15:13

16:15 22:12,1424:11,13 25:2 40:842:5,23 43:24 46:947:13 54:9,9 63:1979:17 86:9 109:2

office's (9) 16:13 45:946:3,15 47:17108:3,18 140:21141:16

Oh (4) 102:19 147:20192:22 193:16

okay (144) 6:14,198:20 10:15,24 12:812:21 13:2,14 14:314:6,10 17:2218:13 20:7,11 23:924:8 25:16 26:5,1226:13 30:24 31:1432:19 33:7,1434:11 38:23 39:939:14 41:10 43:1644:9 45:24 48:1750:25 55:21 56:1960:22 61:22 62:565:18 71:4 72:2373:5,8,25 75:6 78:178:4,24 83:1 86:2188:25 89:7 90:9,1591:18 92:17 98:199:11,14,24 100:14102:12,19 104:9105:2,12 107:19109:6 111:13112:14 116:10122:2 123:1 126:23128:15 132:8133:25 134:4,9135:4 136:3,12137:11,16 139:2140:1 141:2 142:1142:5 143:12,18144:13,25 146:9,19146:23 147:20149:7,24 150:11152:4 153:25 154:2154:21 156:4,19,24160:17 173:18174:4,9 178:20179:24 180:11182:20 183:3 185:9186:16 188:13191:6 192:25 193:7194:6 196:19199:15 204:5,12205:6,22,25 208:12209:15 211:7213:12 214:12216:11 218:21219:18,24 222:18

old (2) 160:5 168:2oldy‐fashionedy (1)

175:23once (18) 9:2 14:22

23:20 26:17 56:2557:5,9,12,23,2458:23,24,25 59:489:7 211:3,3216:11

ones (2) 52:13 61:18one‐to‐one (1) 34:22onwards (1) 195:5open (9) 58:10,17

86:20 107:7 207:14215:12,16,20,21

opened (1) 69:6opening (2) 70:21

180:9openly (1) 28:15openness (1) 215:11opens (1) 86:17operate (1) 211:14operating (2) 122:22

218:10opinion (16) 87:23

93:3,4,8 96:5,6118:14 119:15120:1 125:10,11183:16,17,19,21,23

opportunity (7) 57:1691:7 116:15 162:19162:24 214:19221:19

oppose (3) 163:16,17163:18

optical (3) 89:22108:10 130:18

optician (1) 222:3optics (1) 210:10option (1) 120:1Optom (1) 126:23optometrist (1) 152:5optometry (1) 221:7order (7) 18:20 63:23

68:5 146:6 170:19217:4 222:24

original (2) 122:19140:22

originally (1) 112:16ostracised (16) 12:9

12:11,16,18 13:213:18 14:3 44:1194:4,17 95:6,7,23103:22 137:23138:8

ought (3) 29:7 190:1196:8

outs (2) 23:20 211:10outset (1) 1:12outside (4) 202:21

217:16 220:3,15outwith (1) 219:25overnight (1) 224:18overrun (1) 165:10overseeing (1) 210:17overtaken (1) 223:8overview (2) 170:22

211:19owning (1) 209:8O'Brien (2) 56:6 61:19o'clock (6) 70:17

114:7,14 166:5167:1 224:21

P

pack (1) 53:6page (103) 4:19 22:20

23:3 25:17 27:1127:23 28:6 34:336:9 37:9 38:6,15

38:24 44:9 55:2156:3,9,10,13 58:1859:25 61:14 62:568:20 72:11 81:184:22 88:19 97:24102:12 103:25104:25 118:10121:2 124:7,7125:25 128:21,25129:12 131:9 135:8146:25 152:7156:24,24 159:10160:19 161:15,20167:6,7,10 168:5169:25 170:20,21172:22,23 173:1,2173:4,6,8,12174:22 175:4178:19 179:3,17185:10 190:22191:2,17,17 192:18192:18 193:25194:15,15 195:3196:7,20 197:19198:19 199:6201:21 202:14,17204:6,10,21 205:15205:18,18,19,20206:23,24 218:5,21221:24 223:14

pages (11) 19:7168:19 172:23173:4,11 180:10181:4,5,9 196:6217:18

pagination (3) 1:94:20 172:25

paid (3) 194:20 195:9200:17

Palmer (3) 1:25 2:9,25paper (2) 124:16

212:20paragraph (25) 12:8

84:1 92:17 109:6129:4 132:9 137:21138:17 143:18167:11,13 168:10168:12 169:12,13170:16,20,22,25206:25 207:1208:13 210:15211:7 213:12

paragraphs (5) 19:1176:13 78:8 172:2186:18

parasite (1) 79:2part (34) 12:21,23

16:12 32:25 45:846:2,8,14 47:1654:11 94:1 108:2108:17 117:12122:6 140:20141:15 145:8 174:5174:11 186:14188:22 189:22192:11 203:19,20209:14 210:6,6212:3,4,23 215:13216:22

particular (3) 37:24116:7 117:14

particularly (4) 121:10129:3 149:10,10

parties (2) 214:22222:4

partner (9) 22:23,25186:5 216:7,14,15216:19,21 223:25

partners (11) 28:8186:17,17,20,24

213:13,14,25 214:4215:11,12

partnership (6) 209:9211:8 214:4,10,13214:16

parts (3) 75:6 180:16181:21

party (5) 7:15,1690:15 116:23213:23

part‐time (1) 126:22pass (4) 1:5 119:12

169:10 184:18passage (1) 205:15passed (2) 170:15

217:18passionate (1) 186:22passionately (2)

214:16,18Patel (20) 71:16

174:18 180:18189:17,19,24190:12,13 209:17215:19 216:1,3217:2,25 218:7,22219:21 222:20223:9,22

patient (7) 80:8 123:7123:10,11 124:1149:21 154:10

Patrice (3) 56:6 61:1987:3

Pause (5) 76:8 154:1193:6 196:18205:22

payable (1) 218:11PAYE (1) 174:20paying (1) 220:6payroll (1) 208:6peer (1) 74:2penultimate (1) 23:15people (51) 8:2 18:8

22:4 26:10 35:336:6 40:12 43:277:19 86:9 97:4106:4,22 107:9,16110:7 118:15,18120:6,10,19,21125:6 136:15 137:2138:4,7,11 144:10144:14,19,22186:16,21,23195:15 199:20,23204:3 208:3,4,6209:12 210:3,8,11214:19 220:3,15,18221:11

perception/overvie...121:4

perfect (1) 97:19perfectly (5) 81:18

85:9 88:15 92:3130:22

performance (1)130:12

period (17) 7:13 15:622:15 32:10 39:1487:9,14,20 144:3181:25 194:10,19194:20,25 195:8206:6 215:25

permission (1) 96:13perpetrator (1) 140:8person (14) 18:14,16

31:3 41:21 58:692:9 98:1 115:24151:2 155:11158:16 203:8221:17,19

personal (9) 23:5,12

24:24 49:22 105:16119:14 138:12143:10 149:25

personally (41) 7:712:10 13:20,2214:21 38:19 46:647:22 49:10 51:1751:18 52:12 63:664:9,14,20 65:3,1466:18 78:19 90:1590:21 97:16 102:1118:25 121:5 127:7127:9 132:19133:14 142:10143:8 145:3 157:14187:23 209:2,7213:19 217:7222:15 223:21

persuading (1) 166:17pharmacist (1) 195:4phone (6) 5:16 6:10

14:24 74:21 78:14124:13

phoned (11) 5:13,1570:17,17 74:9,1375:1 82:13,15 91:4102:4

photographic (1)224:7

phrase (1) 107:18phrasing (1) 97:18physically (3) 22:9

131:17,19pick (3) 18:14,16

172:22picked (1) 51:22picking (1) 148:20picture (1) 165:15pin (1) 72:24place (9) 8:15 19:16

30:23 32:8 33:2542:7 58:9 99:1119:12

plainly (1) 13:5plan (2) 184:3 186:7planned (1) 1:12plans (1) 215:16please (14) 4:9 49:2

64:12 73:22 81:25131:4 148:13 167:4167:5,6,6,10168:18 217:24

pleased (1) 96:12plus (1) 30:4pm (7) 1:2 56:12

114:16,18 158:12158:14 224:23

point (26) 39:20,23,2439:24 55:17 61:2580:8 92:20 160:23160:23 161:2,21162:9 163:25 164:5166:19 177:10195:5 202:2 213:12216:9,23 217:10222:19 223:7 224:5

points (1) 159:6policemen (1) 204:1policies (1) 213:4policy (4) 211:18,22

211:24 212:19poor (4) 51:7,13,15,17position (13) 11:13

19:18 92:21 154:12164:6,10,19 172:13174:10 216:4,17,24219:20

possible (4) 51:367:16 102:22145:16

possibly (4) 103:1128:6 156:2 167:21

post (3) 69:5,6,7postponed (1) 2:14postponement (1)

117:16Potentially (1) 190:5Potts (43) 59:23 81:12

81:13 128:16,17,18130:5 157:25 158:1158:19 159:5,6,19160:19 162:1,4,5162:19,22 163:24163:25 164:5,15165:14,18 166:3,7166:12,19 167:3,5168:2,16 169:7,10170:7 176:24177:10,14,17 184:9225:6,10

Poulson (1) 186:5practical (3) 163:25

165:16,18precise (2) 9:11 190:2preference (1) 95:11preferential (8) 14:7

14:13 44:15 75:776:15 96:8 138:18149:12

preferred (1) 138:12prefers (1) 19:16pregnancy (1) 3:11pregnant (2) 79:1

82:23premature (1) 166:9prepared (1) 54:13prescription (2)

152:14,16prescriptions (1)

130:14presence (1) 34:25present (7) 31:19

34:21 36:12 53:4,5152:5 180:16

presented (3) 123:10129:22 131:23

pressure (2) 74:2115:17

pressured (3) 53:16113:25 145:2

presumably (2) 93:12150:21

Prevention (2) 171:14171:20

previous (6) 71:1284:22 86:15,20127:19 193:21

previously (5) 53:2179:3 85:20 106:8151:11

pre‐judge (1) 160:15principle (2) 165:17

166:15printed (2) 91:1

116:15prior (11) 9:7 34:14

43:16 52:16 61:25127:25 150:9,14154:19 155:14167:17

private (4) 106:5180:15 216:3,6

probably (10) 18:2126:5 30:13 50:382:17 103:21 105:8114:8 201:3 204:7

probation (8) 101:2101:10,18 104:7,10139:19,21 140:3

probationary (1) 15:6

problem (4) 79:24113:18 123:5142:21

problems (14) 50:9,1151:1 52:4,6 97:20113:17,19,20123:10,11 143:13143:15 145:14

problems/issues (1)144:4

procedure (3) 85:9,1386:1

procedures (1) 122:22proceedings (1)

222:20process (8) 219:25

220:2,8,9,22,24,25221:1

processes (2) 130:14220:15

produce (2) 178:2,5produced (2) 181:6

211:23productivity (1)

130:11professional (3) 2:12

2:13 24:23profile (1) 221:18profiling (2) 221:3,3profitability (2)

214:21 215:7promise (1) 165:20proper (2) 107:1 205:2properly (1) 59:1protect (1) 171:10protection (1) 207:2proven (1) 93:13proves (1) 126:17provisions (1) 166:21provisos (1) 196:12psychometric (1)

221:5pub (29) 7:18 8:1,14

11:22 18:3,5 39:1539:25 40:2,2 42:2250:10,12,16,1762:20,21,23 116:21117:4 118:3,8131:25 132:1147:14,16,24 148:1148:3

public (1) 81:19publicly (2) 77:20

121:11pumped (1) 204:24punch (2) 36:10 73:11punches (1) 26:23purchase (1) 218:9purported (1) 192:10purports (1) 58:15purpose (8) 54:1,8

96:24 109:1 145:6145:8 146:19171:20

purposes (5) 145:9,19145:22 146:5 189:4

pursue (2) 148:23220:18

push (2) 19:22 20:3pushed (3) 19:17

179:19 182:8pushing (4) 176:3,5,5

176:5put (59) 6:25 7:2 12:3

13:5 15:18 16:1040:8 41:18 55:1757:17 59:21,2460:13 63:22 72:973:4 78:20 79:1284:3 96:23 103:23



112:8 113:7 118:13118:14,15,18,18119:2,19 120:2,5,6120:10,11,15,19,20120:21 121:14124:3 125:18128:21 129:9 142:2150:11 156:17162:17,18 164:18165:10 171:11,20173:15 176:6197:15 199:5,12221:2

puts (1) 77:14putting (12) 3:8 66:10

66:25 113:3 124:1125:6,7 132:13156:7 196:12 223:6223:12

P/E (1) 218:18

Q

qualification (1)117:17

quarter (3) 179:5181:23 197:14

quarters (1) 165:2quasi (1) 211:8query (1) 156:4question (132) 5:24

7:13 16:25 17:2,620:7 59:23 62:565:9,9 66:14,17,1767:1 68:9 69:1171:11 73:12,19,2373:24 76:11 77:1080:11,25 111:21115:8,19 119:16121:6 122:8 125:24128:18 132:21135:16 148:7,11152:25 153:16156:17 157:21164:9,21 175:5,16175:21 176:2,4,6176:10,13 178:2,5178:7,16,20,23179:4,8,12 180:7,9183:4,5,6,13184:16 185:22188:2,5,15 191:8191:12,15,25 192:3192:21 193:13,19194:1,9,17 195:4195:12 196:8,14,24197:1,3,6,10,20198:6,8,10,13,25199:11,15,18,22200:4,7,13,24201:2,5,22,25202:2,5,9,12,18,23203:5,9,12 204:2,9204:18,20 205:7,16206:2,5,19 207:14207:16,19 209:4,22

questioning (1) 181:8questions (12) 63:8

65:7 75:4 80:23128:15 130:20157:24 175:1 185:7195:12 202:3,3

quick (1) 125:23quicker (1) 17:1quickly (2) 82:8

196:17quite (36) 14:15 32:9

48:10 50:10 59:169:8 79:1 97:24114:3 116:20 120:2132:21 143:14,23

147:13 148:23149:1 151:25152:18 164:18166:5 180:12,20182:25 187:11189:19,24 190:4195:21 197:20199:15 202:22,23203:3,14 206:6

quotation (1) 77:14quote (14) 75:25 76:9

76:15 77:1,2,13,1479:1,11,25 197:22198:20 202:15205:5

quoted (1) 185:14quotes (10) 75:6,15

76:2 78:5 79:10,2480:5 121:21,21,22

quoting (6) 77:2,7,977:22 78:21,24

R

R (1) 2:8raided (1) 21:24Raines (1) 209:11raise (11) 40:11 41:2

42:4 47:1 86:6106:3,4,22 107:2109:25 119:22

raised (16) 8:10 21:1627:4 36:23 42:144:2 53:21 70:589:3 93:5 98:21105:4,17,22 140:11224:10

raises (3) 47:10,1265:23

raising (4) 27:24 88:2196:2 129:23

Rajan (10) 26:16,1637:12 38:4 57:272:17 104:3,5134:14 135:9

range (1) 152:19rare (1) 152:16reached (1) 223:1reacted (1) 33:7reacting (1) 151:23reaction (2) 24:3 28:5read (33) 5:15,18 7:10

27:12 45:19,2267:6 74:14 75:2576:2 78:14 79:2598:3,5 108:22109:9 116:5,13,14121:20 122:14132:11 139:20153:25 154:1170:13 188:7 193:5196:16 205:14,19205:21 219:8

reading (10) 17:665:16 76:8 109:10115:17 179:23184:6,7,14 211:11

ready (2) 1:6 165:8real (15) 75:9,11

76:18,21 146:10179:21 180:6,11,18182:2,4 183:7,23187:3 189:25

realise (2) 50:1 142:14realised (1) 108:20realistic (1) 165:3really (28) 11:15,20

20:4 31:23,25 41:663:6 69:16 71:675:8,10 76:16,2092:10 115:22,23

139:16 144:22164:21 179:13181:11 191:21197:7 201:1 202:6204:24 219:25221:15

reason (13) 3:9 15:2122:13 41:17 60:1166:11 111:18 125:3146:7 158:7 160:18165:19 207:13

reasonable (1) 52:2reasons (3) 103:8

146:10,11recall (35) 32:16 61:14

61:17 65:15 66:2167:3 77:24 83:6,1298:18 116:22 122:9131:16,25 134:10135:23,25 136:1137:15,17 139:1151:3 152:10159:23 160:11174:5,11,16 184:8184:17 185:12,23185:24 200:8,10

received (4) 2:22160:24 161:16,22

reception (4) 36:2268:25 69:7 123:22

Receptionist (2) 33:1633:17

recognise (7) 126:1182:7,8,9 218:19219:7,9

recognised (2) 51:22160:10

recollection (3) 67:1984:24 147:22

recommended (1)25:10

record (14) 175:6176:7,8,8,14 181:6181:14,22 192:10192:11 197:10201:11 202:4206:11

recorded (7) 175:19175:21 181:21191:24 192:2193:11 198:21

recorder‐type (1)175:22

recording (12) 175:17178:8,9 180:16181:21,25 182:7,13182:18,20,24191:23

recordings (1) 181:9records (1) 60:21reduces (1) 3:22refer (11) 4:15 15:9

16:15 68:14 81:1118:11 144:8,9,23211:9 220:24

reference (10) 44:2367:4 96:7 125:16125:20 129:15184:24 187:3194:25 205:12

referred (6) 17:1268:20 116:24 186:4186:6 194:25

referring (20) 10:2516:4 21:6,13 31:2331:25 52:11 75:2097:2 115:12 118:20118:21 120:9,17139:4 161:10184:25 185:1

191:10 215:25refers (5) 22:19 37:24

60:10 115:4 156:5reflection (1) 213:17refresh (2) 130:1

134:20refused (1) 111:18refusing (1) 122:24regarding (11) 12:12

16:17,18,19 22:2240:4 41:4 66:2578:3 180:2 218:1

regards (8) 21:1634:13 36:11 50:7104:7 111:5 130:11222:20

regions (1) 215:15regular (3) 209:12

210:6 217:10regularly (3) 210:23

210:25 211:1regulatory (1) 171:24Rehman (25) 158:17

158:24 160:14161:17,17,18 162:8162:14 163:3 164:8165:10,11 192:25193:7,9 197:3,3,12197:24 198:10199:19,19 201:13201:17 208:8

Rehman's (1) 164:6rejects (1) 107:25related (1) 140:2relates (1) 60:14relating (1) 28:24relation (19) 47:23

129:3 130:2,2156:17 165:23166:7 167:12168:11 169:2174:15,18,19184:11 188:24198:3 212:10222:10 223:8

relationship (33)22:22 50:2 51:5,751:13,15,25 52:353:23 71:6,1289:18 95:9 110:4,8110:9 111:4,22112:6,6,7 113:5,9142:15,21,25148:18 149:2211:19 212:13,24214:2,22

relationships (1) 65:22release (1) 3:21released (7) 3:8,18,19

3:20 81:16,17130:21

relevant (3) 78:17166:20 208:23

relied (2) 181:16188:10

relief (1) 28:16reluctant (1) 1:15rely (1) 173:25relying (1) 111:11remaining (1) 36:17remember (125) 8:24

25:19 29:4,17,1830:3,3,4,5,6,7,8,930:10,12,21,21,2230:22,23 31:9,9,1031:10,11,12,20,2132:5,18 37:1338:19 39:18 45:2345:24,25 50:23,2455:9,10,11,12,20

56:16,17,21 57:1,657:25 59:2,1860:25 61:6 62:1167:5,7 68:6 72:1472:14,18,25,2573:4,7 83:23 84:1485:14 87:4 88:1,688:15,16,17 89:1089:11 90:3,8 91:1196:16 101:14,16102:11 117:13,14121:19 122:24123:13 127:8 132:1133:25 134:12,20137:19 139:19141:1 142:12147:14,16,17,18148:8 149:6 155:23155:23 156:2,3,23156:23 159:3,11161:2,9,12 172:22172:25 173:16174:13 182:14184:5 200:9 209:19209:21 219:23220:10 223:12

remembered (1)61:10

remembers (1) 147:20remind (2) 55:21

134:11remit (4) 170:22

203:19 208:25209:24

remove (1) 172:6removed (1) 108:7repair (3) 68:14,18

69:14repairs (5) 111:6,8

112:17,19 122:20repeated (1) 22:7repercussions (3) 52:9

52:14 144:15rephrase (1) 211:21replacement (1) 209:8replied (3) 39:23 66:8

221:24reply (1) 221:25report (4) 23:21 99:25

196:10 209:25reported (5) 22:5

34:23 172:18 210:2217:8

reporting (3) 108:11186:1 210:9

reports (5) 19:1221:22 24:24 171:18210:7

reputation (6) 171:5,6207:7,11,15,23

request (4) 3:8,9 16:971:2

requested (2) 20:2171:2

requests (2) 2:22 22:7required (1) 222:2requirement (2)

167:23 222:5requirements (1)

171:24reservations (1) 28:13resign (1) 30:18resignation (7) 25:21

29:4 30:1 33:1188:4 102:14 145:25

resignations (1) 28:20resigned (11) 28:11,16

32:14 33:4,23 89:7102:22 103:2,4,11103:12

resigning (5) 26:2 32:833:24 89:5 102:15

resigns (3) 25:1947:13 102:12

resolved (1) 141:10respect (5) 48:4 60:14

71:3 94:24 173:22respective (1) 171:23respond (2) 198:13

219:20respondents (5) 1:21

59:21,24 60:13173:21

respondent's (3)57:19,21 163:22

response (3) 63:1569:11 80:9

responsibilities (1)210:12

responsibility (3) 91:1123:23 210:20

responsible (3) 113:14123:24 210:16

rest (4) 95:14 96:1,14177:4

rests (1) 210:21result (3) 25:8 40:25

62:24retail (7) 28:19 29:9

29:23 132:16 138:6164:14 210:16

return (1) 36:21returned (9) 13:22

101:13,16 102:6126:12,16,18160:25 161:23

returning (2) 145:23145:24

reverse (1) 18:20rewards (1) 64:6re‐employ (6) 28:11

28:15,17 32:15,2032:22

re‐employed (2) 32:1732:18

re‐entered (1) 36:24re‐examination (3)

128:17 177:19225:6

rid (2) 30:18 206:22ridiculous (1) 200:18rids (1) 30:2right (111) 1:16,19

4:25,25 5:24 6:226:24 7:15,15,2510:2,2 14:3,25 15:317:22 18:5 24:1630:11 32:25 34:136:9 37:9 38:1539:5,20 41:2 43:1345:11 48:10,1049:8,23 50:10,1550:25 53:8 60:861:9,12 64:2470:25 72:9 73:880:14 84:24 85:585:16 86:11 87:2591:12 99:4 101:6101:24 102:15104:23 106:22110:1 114:22118:10 119:5 123:9128:1 131:9 137:12137:20 138:7,17141:6,25 143:18146:5,12,19,24147:13 148:10149:1 150:22 151:5151:18 152:21154:5 156:19

157:19 160:8162:20 170:15172:21 173:9,10174:2,22,22,23176:15 182:25186:12,21 188:12189:16 191:25193:19 195:21199:2 202:12205:13 206:20209:22 221:19223:6

rightly (1) 91:5right‐hand (4) 4:20

157:1 185:10218:16

ring (1) 124:12ringleaders (5) 43:6,8

43:10,12,13risk (4) 11:14 12:6

93:1 171:22risked (1) 207:22Riyaz (10) 26:16,16

37:22 56:22,2457:2 58:7 72:17104:3,5

role (1) 208:13roof (5) 14:23,24,25

15:3 46:19room (20) 31:19 46:18

70:20,22 92:3,595:16,18,20 113:22124:24 127:10138:23,25 149:11152:9 154:8,11,20154:24

rota (2) 126:7,8rotas (1) 198:3roughly (5) 8:14 132:2

133:25 134:2 211:2round (3) 18:22

131:14 159:18Rowe (5) 185:13,20

186:2,12,13Rowe's (1) 186:10rude (1) 79:1ruined (1) 76:18run (1) 130:9running (5) 123:22,25

167:7 208:24 212:6Ruth (11) 1:12 2:1 8:4

25:23 26:3 29:1456:3 61:19 87:292:20 103:3

Ryan (14) 209:12,21209:23,25 216:7217:7,8,20 218:22219:19 220:4221:24 222:12,17

Ryan's (1) 218:20

S

safe (2) 68:22 99:20salary (2) 194:20

195:9sale (6) 216:10,25

217:1,4,4 221:19sat (2) 131:5 209:11Saturday (10) 82:12

96:19 102:6,8126:21 127:13,19128:4,11 165:22

saw (4) 56:22 75:976:18 116:14

saying (72) 21:1229:25 32:4 38:1940:13 43:22 47:351:25 53:19 67:867:19 68:5 77:491:20 94:7,12,20



94:22 97:16 104:19106:12 107:2109:17 111:10,25112:18,22 116:23117:22 118:7119:24 120:4,7125:19,20 132:13132:23 136:25140:9 144:10,21,23151:9 173:23 176:1176:2,7 178:14180:1,14,17 181:18181:24,25 183:8,9183:14 185:16187:18 189:22196:10 197:3,12198:2,10 199:20200:16 201:17204:25 206:3 212:9224:5

says (31) 24:23 29:2245:7 46:12,13,2452:7,15 53:1459:14 62:7 63:1165:10,20,24 76:1277:12 91:20 97:9118:11 129:21140:17 155:18160:4 168:12180:20 190:11214:15 218:17219:10,15

SB (14) 75:8,10 76:1676:16,20,22 77:1677:17,18,20 79:179:11 80:6 126:23

scared (6) 52:9,14,15144:14,21,22

scary (1) 203:15scenario (1) 221:8schedule (3) 159:10

164:24,25school (4) 9:2 35:14

35:15,19scope (1) 210:1scratched (1) 108:8second (16) 19:10

24:25 36:9 92:17109:19 115:7 121:2123:4 132:9 134:19147:3 159:1,2,14164:5 168:20

section (1) 172:3see (173) 1:23 2:3,6

2:25 8:24 10:4,411:10 14:21 15:1415:16 16:8 18:1919:6,10,13,1920:18 21:4,1522:17,20 23:1,7,1323:22 24:21,2425:6,24 26:14,2027:1,5,15 28:6 29:132:12 34:4,9 35:136:25 37:10 38:6,838:15 44:13,2045:1 55:25 56:4,758:15 63:17,2464:4 65:1 66:268:12 70:9 73:975:13,18 79:8,1884:21 85:11 89:191:19,20 92:498:22 100:13,20102:20 104:1,11,13104:17,19 114:3,13115:5,10,15 121:6121:22 122:11123:12 126:4,4,9126:20,24 127:5,6

127:13,13,17,20128:3,25 129:6,25132:9 134:22135:11 139:9148:11,14 149:13152:25 153:12,22156:25 157:9160:23 161:1165:11 166:10171:6,11 172:6174:23 175:5,8176:17 179:1,17,22185:15 186:9 190:8190:22 191:17192:7,18 193:23194:13,23 195:1,17196:20 197:17,22198:17 200:20201:7,14 203:17205:3 206:8 207:5208:11 209:22211:11,15 212:9,14213:14 215:12,14217:20 218:3,14,17218:23 219:4,12,17221:25 223:11224:21

seek (1) 184:9seen (9) 70:3 99:3

117:12 128:6152:23 153:17161:7 163:4 164:3

sees (1) 2:11sell (14) 209:18,19

215:19 216:1,6,12216:19 217:2,6219:21 220:2,9222:2,24

selling (2) 210:3222:20

send (1) 160:16sending (1) 159:15sends (1) 104:3senior (1) 208:14sense (2) 188:15

201:18sensible (2) 163:14

166:12sent (7) 24:10 60:7

86:9 160:12 161:3161:16 217:24

sentence (14) 16:8,2417:1 23:15 49:1852:7 78:17 92:2494:18 125:3 140:1141:12 157:1167:12

separate (3) 82:11,2283:2

separately (1) 61:21separation (1) 95:8September (4) 168:13

209:17 217:1,6series (3) 87:8 159:19

159:20serious (20) 11:23

21:16 28:13 36:1193:19 98:6 106:16106:18 108:12119:11 122:6 133:4139:2 155:2 187:5197:21 198:23200:2 204:13,21

seriously (3) 94:13188:1 207:4

seriousness (1) 93:9serve (1) 173:22served (1) 1:15service (3) 138:10

217:16 220:5

serving (3) 30:14,1576:23

set (5) 13:12 171:24212:13 213:3 218:8

sets (5) 26:20 60:10103:25 211:10,13

settled (1) 141:11seven (1) 126:9seventh (1) 169:18sexual (15) 17:21,22

17:24 47:23 48:848:12 98:6 103:21133:22 135:15,19136:4,4 139:13140:2

sexually (3) 46:2293:13 105:18

shapes (1) 151:24share (3) 209:13,16

216:9shared (2) 209:9

215:17shareholder (2) 211:9

212:5shareholders (4)

171:23 212:13213:8 216:22

shareholding (3)217:23 218:9,13

shares (16) 209:8,13209:18,19 210:3215:19 216:2,19217:3,6 219:2,22220:2,9 222:21,24

sheet (1) 160:2Sheila (12) 52:21 53:7

70:10,15 71:1,5,8,982:13,15,16,18

Sheila's (1) 70:16shocked (2) 17:23

28:10shop (30) 18:6,15

19:25 20:6 30:1336:17 50:8 52:2469:20 70:6 77:2186:17,18 91:2592:7,8 95:12,16,21107:9 121:11124:21 132:15,17136:13 137:1,8155:8 157:7 212:18

short (18) 15:5 17:820:22 22:15 32:1055:2 97:1,4 102:4105:15 114:17139:6,8 140:19141:14 158:13162:16 176:7

shortly (3) 79:1783:16 161:18

show (8) 1:21 11:328:18 32:25 33:1,838:14 70:14

showed (4) 62:2115:16 116:3195:14

showing (1) 160:2shown (7) 56:12

116:10,11 128:10130:1 156:21166:20

shut (2) 71:3 166:17sick (4) 128:3 199:9,21

199:24side (14) 51:21 77:15

107:17 116:8,8157:1 158:16165:16,18 174:23213:2,4 214:7218:16

sides (3) 75:11 76:20212:25

sight (2) 149:20151:22

sign (38) 5:5,21 12:2513:15 62:14 63:1265:11,25 66:673:16,22 74:3,1575:2,21 110:17,18110:18 111:15,15111:18 113:21,22113:25 115:17116:5 121:25122:18,25 124:15129:18 131:12,23150:24 157:14178:11 179:8224:11

signatories (1) 5:2signature (5) 5:8 62:3

168:5,22 170:3signatures (1) 131:14signed (45) 1:13 4:24

16:5 17:11,17 19:829:15 43:3 44:1748:25 55:7,9,1161:23,25 68:2569:3,9 73:12,14,2075:24 76:1,3 77:578:4,5,7,10 110:19111:17,19 112:22113:23 122:19,24131:17,19 132:12138:1 140:24 141:4143:4,16 191:22

signing (12) 14:1116:14 41:8,1555:10,12 69:180:17 115:24129:24 150:21192:9

similar (1) 56:2simple (1) 188:5simply (4) 60:14

111:21 119:24140:10

Singh (65) 6:14,167:14,16 8:6 18:2,518:9 21:2 22:2123:19,25 24:1625:3,23 26:3,2427:5,9,13,20,2428:3,5 29:16 31:1533:18 34:3,7,8,1236:16,23 37:6,1938:6,17 39:16,2141:1 42:3 44:246:24 47:7 48:1551:5,12 52:1762:20,21,24 80:2080:21 96:2 98:7103:3,15 104:21108:13 109:3110:11,13 118:3133:8 139:23

Singh's (3) 21:17 29:836:13

sir (12) 82:11,25 83:583:7,11 84:8 86:2596:5 98:4 111:13118:1 130:4

sit (11) 4:9 67:4 81:25117:1 131:4 165:24166:5,24,25 167:4174:10

sitting (4) 25:9 39:10163:5 178:13

situation (8) 11:2014:5 85:19,19141:9 148:6 196:2

215:22six (19) 8:2 9:13,23

12:2,21 13:1,529:15 35:19 40:1040:13 42:1 43:1446:7 55:6 62:25141:4 146:24180:19

size (1) 221:13skeleton (2) 169:10,15skip (2) 26:5 198:19slightly (3) 73:18

123:21 192:4slip (2) 124:15 197:13slowly (1) 221:15small (3) 3:22 96:17

192:11smoker (1) 15:1smooth‐running (2)

51:3 145:16SOG (9) 25:2 26:18

100:15 154:13171:8 172:5,13207:4 210:16

solely (1) 111:11solicitor (1) 2:9solicitors (2) 1:25

162:11somebody (13) 7:7

16:10 49:15 76:10100:22 107:2 135:5146:12 165:10166:16 180:24183:9 192:17

son (4) 9:2 35:13,1535:17

sorry (56) 9:12,1515:24 18:22 19:2430:22 41:13 42:1844:6 49:17 59:664:12 65:16 76:880:7 81:4,7 83:2184:23 92:8 96:15100:7 110:15 121:1129:8,25,25 145:24148:1 150:24151:17,18 167:20168:10,10 169:2170:24 173:3,7177:10 181:7 183:4191:1,2 193:5194:4 196:18 199:1202:14 204:15,17205:12,13 211:21222:23 223:18

sort (21) 31:23 32:233:22 65:21 77:15123:16 124:12148:20 155:9 165:2176:4 178:14196:12 209:16,23209:23 210:1212:21 214:15217:16 222:9

sorts (2) 195:15204:25

sought (1) 172:14sounds (1) 43:21source (1) 50:18speak (26) 9:20 32:4

37:6 49:5 50:454:23 63:21 69:2169:22 72:2 79:1485:5 87:22 93:4,1795:25 96:4 98:21103:11 136:11210:23,25 211:1,3218:1 224:18

speaking (5) 42:9,13114:10 179:6 196:9

specialised (1) 152:19specific (5) 49:8

152:15 202:3207:18 211:13

Specsavers (38) 9:110:7 27:13,18,1928:9 37:20 68:1768:19 84:14 99:999:10 104:5 125:5161:11,14 171:4,10173:21,25 186:17187:2 188:9 207:23208:20 211:10,19212:10,24 213:17213:21 214:3216:17 218:10221:22 222:3,6,16

spectacles (1) 68:18spend (1) 114:10spin (1) 196:6split (7) 13:3 75:8,10

76:16,20 138:2,3spoke (14) 35:3 36:7

47:19,20,20 70:1874:20 90:6 112:4115:13 116:2 124:5134:1 154:23

spoken (15) 3:3 33:2443:16,19,19 44:2,380:21 84:15 85:1886:23 90:9 137:4147:13 224:2

spring (1) 208:11staff (78) 1:13 6:3

11:4,25 12:2413:11 21:22 24:1828:1,23 29:18 30:830:10 31:7,22 32:534:8,12,16,18,1934:23,25 35:436:18,18,21 38:2039:16 49:14,2350:13,14 51:2252:23,24 61:1864:3,10,15,17,1964:22 65:23 66:568:16 70:15,20,2271:2 72:1,6 76:2379:15 80:21 85:1786:22 93:13 94:2098:9,19 100:17102:11 108:12116:3 117:4 118:12121:5,13 124:24126:7 128:22 137:8141:4 142:9 157:3186:1 188:9

stage (12) 3:3 9:2128:2 33:18 47:853:9 103:20 142:17215:20 220:7,24,25

stalked (1) 98:11stalker (1) 23:5stand (5) 22:5 143:7

156:15,18 204:5standing (3) 31:21

90:24 122:22staring (1) 21:23start (9) 4:17,19 20:15

165:4,7,8,25221:11 223:22

started (10) 26:2435:11,15 75:1076:19 101:16104:16 179:19193:21 209:16

starting (2) 19:1187:18

starts (2) 20:20 157:1state (1) 206:11

stated (4) 124:6135:21 136:21,22

statement (27) 96:11144:7 150:12151:11,14 158:21167:8,16 168:8,20168:24 169:16,22170:1,5,16,17173:19 174:6,7186:19 199:4,5,18199:19,22 206:21

statements (2) 170:18182:10

stating (1) 124:16stay (6) 8:7 19:16

81:18,18 130:23,23stayed (1) 82:16stealing (6) 71:18,20

71:24,25 72:4,7Stephen (4) 8:4 61:20

131:2 225:7stepped (2) 199:10,20steps (1) 218:2Steve (11) 29:14 37:25

38:2 87:2,22 88:1389:9,15,24 90:12116:14

Steve's (1) 91:4stick (1) 165:4stood (2) 14:25 116:8stopped (1) 195:6stopping (2) 175:25

200:12store (92) 7:24 10:20

11:5,9 13:21 15:517:8 25:20 26:1736:20,24 37:2244:8 50:7 56:22,2356:25 57:7,10,2458:5,7,20 59:9,1259:14,17,18 61:261:21 63:25 65:2471:1,3 73:9 74:1175:8 76:17 78:379:7,23 82:1283:24 84:16 85:385:19 86:19 87:1187:17,18,24 89:1791:25 92:2,18 96:397:1,5,20 101:20102:1 105:15,24107:4,5 108:11111:23 112:15131:20 139:7140:19 141:14142:20 144:16147:3 149:8 150:2171:23 179:25180:15,20 192:23193:17 208:2 209:3215:17 218:10221:13,14,16222:10 224:4

stores (3) 167:18168:1,2

storm (1) 97:6Strangely (1) 197:10strong (2) 89:19,21stronger (1) 201:3stroppy (1) 23:4struggling (1) 188:2Stuart (134) 1:3,4,16

1:19,21 2:3,8,11,132:18,21 3:2,14,183:22 4:1,4,6,8,139:7 15:23,25 17:1933:18 35:17 45:1148:7,10 53:9,11,1354:15,18 55:4,557:14,19,23 59:24



60:3,6,9 61:4,5,1367:25 75:16,1780:23 81:15,22,2482:6 114:3,19,20121:2 126:9 128:15129:9 130:25 131:3131:5 138:17157:24 158:4,7,10158:15,16,19,23159:7,9,10,12,14159:17,19,23 160:1160:8,14,18,22161:5,7 162:1,7,9162:14,16,18,22163:2,8,11,13,20164:21,22,24 165:2165:8,13 167:20169:9 170:8,9176:25 177:4,16,24183:4 184:14,19,23185:4 187:12189:16 190:1,7191:1,2 196:16205:18,21 210:15221:21 225:3,5,8225:11

studied (2) 60:4,12studies (1) 221:6stuff (4) 63:5 67:13

203:1,11stupid (1) 77:18style (1) 28:25subject (8) 133:4

134:6 166:3 168:4168:7,16 169:21187:5

subjected (1) 48:14submit (3) 3:9 84:7,9submitted (1) 84:6subparagraphs (1)

170:25substance (2) 68:1,6sub‐departments (1)

170:23sufficient (1) 70:14suggest (11) 11:21

13:24 18:2 60:1561:3 108:25 117:22128:8 135:2 161:3165:6

suggested (9) 43:1343:23 60:16 82:2090:4 146:12 164:7195:9 198:8

suggesting (6) 12:560:18 119:22120:15 125:18176:21

suggestion (1) 164:1suit (1) 112:19sum (5) 19:9 69:24

80:13 191:15218:11

summarise (1) 172:4summarises (2) 172:3

204:7summary (5) 54:7

98:6,13 104:19172:3

summoned (1) 22:12summons (2) 3:15,20Sunday (6) 98:18,19

102:6,9,10 126:21Sundays (1) 127:1superior (1) 94:25supervised (2) 92:22

129:17supervising (1) 41:7supervision (7) 41:4,5

41:10,14,19 129:18

129:24supervisor (3) 92:20

117:17,24supervisory (1) 92:21supplemental (1)

158:23supplementary (1)

151:22support (20) 3:11 11:9

21:3 48:15 54:8,964:2 76:22 91:2592:9 94:8 105:21107:17 109:3 145:8145:11,17,18 149:8157:11

supported (2) 24:694:16

supporting (10) 91:1591:16,19 93:2494:8,10 97:25157:3 186:20210:12

supportive (2) 64:3213:25

suppose (1) 107:17supposed (3) 31:3

204:15 211:14sure (15) 35:6 37:21

85:9 103:1 132:7132:21 146:6 162:3176:24 182:6 183:1187:11 208:15215:21 221:18

surname (2) 84:14,23surprise (1) 129:16surprised (1) 143:21Susannah (3) 185:13

185:19 186:11suspect (1) 163:5suspected (1) 177:15suspects (1) 177:16suspended (16) 10:12

10:15,16 38:7,1738:18,22,23,2439:1,2,6,8 80:2184:11 195:7

suspension (1) 144:2suspicions (1) 224:3suspicious (1) 59:20Swarandeep (194)

9:21 12:9,16 13:1813:21 14:13,2316:12 20:21 22:223:21 25:20 33:538:23 39:5,7 40:1741:7,11,13,15,1644:11 45:8 46:2,1447:2,6,7,13,16,2248:3,21 49:3 50:1,650:14,18 51:8,1451:16,18,23,2552:3,5,6,9,22 53:1554:11 63:12 64:264:15,21,25 65:465:11,14,25 66:566:12,19,25 67:269:2,6,22 70:14,2170:25 71:7,2478:20 82:17,19,2484:10 90:5,6,7,1190:12 91:22 92:1,492:11,15,18 93:2293:24 94:4,5,17,2395:6,23 96:9 98:2299:25 100:1,2,3,5,8101:25 108:2,10,17109:2,3,10,12,14109:21 110:2,12,14110:21 111:10,14111:19 112:9,18,21

113:8,19,21 118:14119:2 120:6,19121:5,14 122:3123:6,8,17,25124:4,12,15,18,20124:23,24 127:15127:19 129:17,22137:23 138:9140:20 141:5,8,15141:18,25 142:4,14142:15,18,23 143:8143:20 144:3,11145:1,20 148:18149:1 150:2 153:9153:14,20 154:3,9154:12,15,23155:13,17,19156:11,13 157:3182:1 187:13189:25 190:12202:21 203:13,15

Swarandeep's (5) 46:895:9,12 96:13151:6

swearing (1) 68:8sweet (1) 121:7sworn (2) 192:22

193:17sympathy (1) 70:14

T

tab (6) 167:6 168:18169:24 170:20172:21 206:23

take (39) 2:23 8:1410:17,23 42:752:22 53:9 54:2054:21 68:8 77:1591:1 112:15 114:7127:22 134:11141:19,21 158:11163:2,3 164:2170:19 174:7,8175:18,24 178:9182:10 184:7 186:4186:19 193:2202:15 209:5,15211:8 224:6,7

taken (33) 14:1716:12 27:22 32:833:19,25 38:1145:8 46:2,14,2247:10,14,16 55:1661:19,21 76:9,11108:2,17 123:21125:5 140:20141:15 163:9 177:4182:10,11 192:21193:14 206:25207:4

takes (2) 149:21163:13

takings (1) 86:15talk (10) 20:1 34:15

121:8,9 148:10,13211:5,6 215:5216:14

talked (1) 133:12talking (32) 16:9 18:15

32:5 46:17 59:872:2 76:6 88:1095:14,24 97:2399:6 106:10 107:14133:16,21 136:3140:10 144:6155:10 174:14181:8,9 185:18,20193:4 194:11200:12 201:24215:6,7,8

talks (4) 138:19214:18,21,24

tape (4) 175:21179:16 180:16195:13

tapping (1) 178:13tasked (1) 171:21tasks (1) 22:16taxi (1) 52:25team (63) 5:14 7:17

10:9 11:8 12:19,2112:22,25 13:216:22 17:9 20:2228:15,16,19,2329:9,13,21,2331:16 33:12 48:2349:3,9 75:8,9,1076:16,18,18,2077:19 82:20 86:2386:24 91:15,2492:10,14,16 94:2095:8,10,14 97:18106:7 107:15 109:8109:20 117:4 118:9138:2,8 140:13142:7 146:22,22149:8 155:11186:16,21,23

team's (1) 203:20tech (1) 18:25technician (2) 19:8

118:22telephone (5) 3:2,4

45:19 86:8 124:17tell (25) 6:9 18:14

38:18 39:17 58:165:2 66:14,1972:21 76:14 77:1799:17 100:25 102:7103:2 110:15136:17 156:9,11167:15 169:14179:12,19 184:14200:15

telling (5) 2:4 50:1165:15 94:14 136:15

temporary (1) 85:3ten (1) 162:10tended (2) 95:20

127:1tendency (1) 95:25tenor (1) 19:21tenth (1) 169:18ten‐page (1) 96:22terms (8) 166:8

184:11 210:12220:19 221:4,4,12222:1

territories (1) 212:7Tesco (1) 208:15Tescos (1) 208:19test (18) 46:18 80:6

92:3,5 127:10138:23,25 149:11149:20 150:3151:22,22,23 152:2152:9 154:11,20,24

tested (1) 95:19testing (6) 82:17

95:16,18,20 113:22152:4

thank (26) 2:17 4:129:6 48:6 81:11,1481:21 82:5 114:15126:8 130:5,16,19130:21,24 138:16145:5 158:2,10168:18 170:7189:15 190:20210:14 221:20

224:13theft (2) 180:19 223:9they'd (1) 46:17thing (16) 47:3 50:3

76:5 82:8 105:9112:11 120:2130:16 155:9 165:2166:12 175:18,22175:24 185:2 194:1

things (35) 20:1 39:1152:18,19 54:4,568:25 81:20 113:4130:13 140:5,7142:19 144:17149:9 176:2,3,13177:3 182:1 187:19195:15,15 196:10204:9,18 205:1212:21 213:8,9214:11,13 215:7220:4,25

think (123) 1:11 3:184:13,24 5:5 12:618:16,20 21:6 24:726:17 29:10 33:235:9,11,15,22,2236:6 37:24 38:2140:12 41:6 44:448:7,9,21 51:1955:7,18,18 56:1757:14 58:7,25 60:660:24 61:22 68:1068:15 70:8 73:5,1873:22 74:10,2284:21 87:2,3,589:23 91:10 98:2102:3,13 104:24106:22 118:2119:14,24 126:4,9126:15 127:2129:19 131:5132:18,22 133:7134:9,12 135:21137:19 138:19146:7,16 147:22148:12 154:19155:18,25 158:25164:11,13 165:3166:8 167:20 168:2168:2 177:2,22178:6,20,24 179:20183:15 184:13189:4,11 190:1192:3 193:21195:14,19 199:7,9199:14 200:15,18204:1,6 207:20208:2,6 209:16212:2 215:1 219:10221:23 222:19223:7,10,11

thinking (1) 35:16third (5) 83:25 137:21

169:16,25 213:23thought (23) 10:13,13

10:16 11:1,1316:18 38:11,2239:3 56:22,24 63:693:1,3 105:8,18108:6 126:16179:13 184:8,16185:16 204:15

thoughts (1) 148:13threat (8) 27:25 31:11

33:11 207:3,7,11207:13,15

threatened (1) 29:25threatening (1) 31:12three (35) 3:12,23

13:25 14:1,20

22:14 35:12,22,2436:3 46:18 58:1860:7,12 95:1998:18 101:17 102:1124:19,21 125:2138:15,20,24143:24,25 165:2179:5,5 181:23,23197:14,14 210:11211:6

Thursday (1) 1:1Tidmass (36) 3:24 4:6

4:7,9,13 16:5,15,2517:10 32:21 33:1535:8 46:21 51:454:17,19,21 55:559:19 60:2,4,1876:7 77:3 78:980:24,25 81:1597:11 98:5 107:23114:25 116:11136:13 147:20225:2

Tidmass's (2) 54:16137:1

till (1) 22:6time (96) 8:17 9:10

10:18 11:15 13:2314:16 15:5,15 17:817:10,16 22:1525:11,12 32:1036:3,20 47:18 49:451:12 52:1,22 55:756:11 70:19 71:1973:9 84:16 85:2187:9,14,21 88:1688:18 93:17 95:1296:6,7,18 97:1,4,699:1,2 103:14105:15 114:3118:24 119:10,14122:9 123:5,13130:18 134:5136:16 138:15139:6,8,18 140:19141:14 144:3148:12 152:15153:25 154:10163:3,8 164:16165:5 176:15182:16,19 194:1,10194:20,25 199:9,13201:22 206:7208:17,18,19,21,23208:23 210:24215:25 219:20220:11 222:10,15223:19 224:1

times (9) 3:4 22:1453:20 57:8,1158:22 172:13 173:6211:6

timing (2) 159:2 224:2title (1) 218:12today (9) 1:10 36:13

36:18 67:19 87:688:5 96:6 112:2166:25

toilet (2) 82:13,15told (68) 6:10 10:21

11:20 17:24 22:232:14,15,16,17,2433:4,5,6,9 34:1738:10 42:20 50:1350:13 53:6 59:167:5 68:22 71:2271:25 72:1,3 78:1680:6 88:7,13,1389:6,9 90:3 93:1198:17,19 99:22

100:5,6,7,24 101:4102:15,22 103:4104:25 110:11,12110:14 124:12125:16,21 133:10134:25 135:17,19136:22,25 146:15150:3 154:19155:24 175:19196:22,23 224:3

tomorrow (9) 88:6163:10,11,12 165:9166:1,6 167:1224:22

tone (1) 95:3top (8) 4:20 28:23

33:12 126:23 138:4138:7 160:1 185:15

topic (1) 22:21total (4) 19:9 69:24

80:13 191:15totally (1) 2:15touch (1) 22:9touched (4) 98:12

99:21 105:18106:23

touchy (1) 21:20Tracey (34) 5:10,25

6:4,12 7:9 8:4 18:829:14 43:9,12,1543:23 44:3 45:2070:21 87:22 88:1389:9,15,24 90:1190:23,24 91:3108:24 113:13116:6 142:11146:16 154:4,9,19154:21 156:1

training (2) 214:18215:8

transcript (13) 167:21168:2 170:15172:21 173:4,12178:10,11,14 185:6193:12 204:12206:17

transfer (3) 209:13217:16 220:5

trap (1) 179:15travelled (2) 103:5,5treat (2) 79:14 177:17treated (1) 139:23treatment (9) 14:8,14

44:15 75:7 76:1696:8 105:20 138:18149:12

trial (19) 1:12 2:4163:6 164:16,17172:23 173:25182:22 184:2,10,15184:20,22,24 185:1185:6,12,25 213:18

tricked (2) 192:4,9tricking (1) 192:17tried (2) 155:17,19tries (3) 51:2 145:14

149:8trouble (1) 109:2true (16) 53:2 106:15

113:18 168:8,25169:22 170:5,6172:13 176:21,22187:7 188:25 189:1190:17 222:13

truly (2) 156:3 176:16trust (1) 214:14try (4) 16:24 55:21

109:1,2trying (24) 19:22 20:2

22:23 35:10,10



37:22 39:11 65:2166:25 67:12 107:15127:4 144:23145:17,18 151:25153:9,21 154:15189:18 190:14199:2 205:13 221:9

Tuesday (5) 58:1161:1 152:8 202:20203:13

turn (9) 167:6,10168:18 169:24176:10 178:10179:20 184:21190:21

turned (7) 51:12,14124:10 175:12,12175:13,13

turning (2) 181:19,20twice (5) 2:14 59:2,5,7

113:10two (76) 1:24 4:15

12:22 13:24 14:119:6 24:18 25:1226:23 27:13 28:2236:21 55:8 57:459:22,25 60:9,1060:15,17,19,2561:7,7 64:1 82:1182:19 83:2 84:394:8,10,21 96:1699:19 100:17103:21 104:14108:11 110:21111:1,2,3 113:1,4122:23 134:14138:4,7,11 139:8140:5,15 141:6142:20 144:7 153:4154:23 158:23159:1,6,10 162:16168:16 175:6 178:6178:7,21 179:8180:15 181:15187:19 197:22201:21 210:11211:6 216:12

typed (17) 59:1560:20 62:4 83:8,2283:25 90:25,2591:13 113:14 116:1116:2 129:23131:17,19 181:14201:10

typed‐up (5) 45:1258:20 59:11,1260:1

typing (2) 83:6 113:14

U

Uckfield (3) 182:13,15182:22

ultimately (2) 210:20210:21

unacceptable (2) 2:1534:22

unaware (2) 36:23183:2

unbiased (9) 172:14188:21,23 189:2,3189:12 192:16195:25 196:4

unchallenged (1)176:23

uncomfortable (11)21:24 23:11 25:2226:2 103:3 104:21106:10,20,21139:24 179:9

undermine (4) 70:4

89:22 152:24153:18

undermined (3) 68:1169:12 122:10

undermining (4) 69:24153:15 156:8,13

understand (33) 41:643:22 48:15 51:2160:2 78:1 81:2085:25,25 98:8,14113:13 130:8137:25 162:22163:23 164:5166:19 167:11173:17 174:1 175:2176:21 177:8181:10 185:16191:8 193:2 195:10195:13 204:23215:21 224:20

understanding (4)14:4 106:2 130:7135:10

understands (1) 1:10understood (8) 60:16

101:6 109:9 143:22164:4 165:13177:24 185:18

unease (1) 106:7unencumbered (1)

218:12unfair (2) 101:4 141:7unfortunately (1) 53:7unhappy (6) 5:14 9:18

9:20 21:19 78:3101:19

unified (4) 28:1832:24 33:1,8

united (1) 146:22unnecessarily (10)

16:13 45:9,10,1245:22 46:4 108:4,6140:23 141:17

unnecessary (2) 84:1108:10

unprofessional (2)63:23 76:17

unqualified (1) 208:4untrue (3) 153:24

172:10 200:5unwanted (1) 21:17upped (3) 9:2 35:12

35:23upset (13) 7:21 19:12

21:1 79:3 85:18104:23 105:22,24117:16 123:17144:8 150:2 154:9

upstairs (3) 66:9 82:1799:21

urgent (2) 20:21 123:7use (5) 22:6 118:17

152:17 182:11190:2

useful (1) 164:1

V

varifocal (1) 152:10various (6) 27:3

107:14 171:24176:3 186:18195:15

venture (10) 209:9,9209:10 213:13,25214:4,16 215:17,18222:2

verbally (1) 217:23versa (1) 90:13version (13) 4:23,24

5:2,7 45:11,12,19

59:11,12 140:22179:4 193:11198:21

veto (1) 223:2vice (1) 90:13victim (1) 140:9video (1) 224:8view (11) 163:14

183:7 187:2,7,9,10187:13,18 199:4,18215:9

views (5) 180:22181:3 186:16,24,25

vocal (4) 97:21,22101:5 110:10

vocalised (1) 122:3voice (3) 85:23 87:9

87:10voices (1) 70:5volume (1) 167:5voluntarily (4) 11:1

38:11,22 39:4voluntary (1) 11:3voucher (1) 69:15vouchers (2) 68:21,24

W

wait (1) 86:19waive (1) 222:4wake (1) 87:5walked (1) 94:23want (51) 3:25 4:1

11:12,18 12:413:16 15:18 32:2134:18 47:6 53:354:4 81:18 85:1285:23 89:17,1991:6,8,21 92:2593:20,21 94:14106:19 107:17120:25 130:22132:10,14,24 142:2144:8,9 145:13,23158:3,7,20,24160:15 162:6163:24 164:2166:15 177:1,24181:12 184:20194:2 205:15

wanted (25) 10:211:16 25:11 42:450:14,19 52:2254:4 63:21 84:1889:12 90:11 91:22105:7 109:15,24114:2 116:16119:23 124:15141:9 209:18,19215:19 217:6

wanting (4) 50:2485:5 219:21,22

wants (6) 33:5 47:1166:16 190:24191:13 216:11

wasn't (81) 7:25 8:711:3,19,20 12:1915:6 18:11,1220:10 33:6 37:1238:15 40:1,1,1341:19 42:6,7,17,1944:5,7 45:4 52:2053:5 62:3,21,2163:6 68:17 69:1670:16 71:21 74:1178:4 79:7,13,2385:9 92:15,2393:15 94:11,1395:16,18 97:11101:3 103:9,17107:12 108:9 110:9

116:12,23,25 117:2118:7 119:12,19127:3 128:4 130:10133:2 143:17147:25 149:1,1,3154:9 162:3 178:12182:5,16 183:14186:15 203:5,7209:15 221:22

watch (1) 70:23way (45) 18:22 22:10

23:6 26:23 60:582:8 91:12,2193:14 94:11,13107:17 111:1 112:4112:5 115:21116:19 120:5128:13 130:9,14135:15,20 136:5140:13 141:5,20157:2 173:16,18178:16 182:10190:14,14,21192:17 199:16200:7,25 201:4204:1 213:3 214:17215:6 224:6

ways (1) 86:8way/manner (1)

189:13week (26) 3:10 8:18

8:19,21 9:1,3,711:22 35:9,21,2436:1,4 37:18 52:2,283:19 95:19 127:20127:25 132:6147:15 163:8,19,20211:3

weekend (1) 128:2weekends (1) 126:20weeks (9) 58:18 129:5

129:7,22 134:14180:19 211:5,6215:14

welcome (2) 81:18130:23

went (34) 7:18 8:258:25 9:2 11:1614:22,22 15:1634:15 35:13,1540:2,13 42:15 48:155:15 66:9 69:5,670:16,19,20 82:1382:14 106:17116:25 138:25144:16 154:10,11180:11,23 200:10202:20

weren't (20) 1:17 20:720:8 33:7,8 36:151:20 90:15 91:1692:10 111:16117:15 122:19130:1 183:22 189:7189:20 202:3215:16,19

we're (2) 38:2 146:22We've (1) 168:9Whelton (1) 37:25whilst (3) 30:14,15

58:17whispering (2) 14:19

138:20wholly (4) 187:4,14,25

188:18widening (1) 184:11wider (1) 139:22wife (1) 195:7willingly (1) 74:1wipe (2) 184:3 186:7

wish (4) 86:6 205:1216:19 220:18

wished (2) 173:25217:2

wishes (3) 162:24216:8 220:7

witness (24) 151:11151:14 158:20169:15,25 170:16170:17,18,19173:15,18,19 174:6174:7 177:17 180:2188:6 189:18,22190:2 192:9 195:22198:5 206:20

witnessed (6) 14:1876:14,25 77:1,2,11

witnesses (1) 3:22woman (2) 184:3

186:7wonder (1) 165:23word (15) 17:18 45:12

67:8,8,21,21,21,2467:24,25 68:1 84:184:3 106:11 179:14

words (12) 7:1 25:1038:14 45:1 51:2397:19 137:24 139:5142:2 192:3,4201:3

work (54) 5:14 7:177:18 8:1 9:19 14:1514:16 15:13,1419:16 20:5 28:1228:22 35:11 40:640:14 42:16,17,2142:23 52:20,2153:18 62:3 64:667:7 70:16,18,1982:24 83:9 88:289:20,23 92:1393:7 117:1,8,15118:8 119:15 127:1140:6 145:23150:10 163:4,8,9193:10 196:23197:6,13 198:6214:17

worked (22) 6:6 13:2014:1 52:21 92:1192:12,15 96:17101:22,24 102:6,8102:16 109:25126:20 127:2143:23 176:20192:23 193:17208:2,14

working (35) 13:1921:2 25:8,22 35:935:21 44:12 51:2,551:7,13,15,19,2452:3 53:23 70:1875:10 76:19 101:20102:18,23,25 103:3127:5,5,6 140:12145:15 195:6196:11 213:21,24214:5 215:8

workload (1) 211:4workplace (3) 141:10

146:2,21world (1) 221:7worried (1) 136:10worry (2) 164:8 188:4worth (2) 179:5

197:15Wotton (8) 1:12 2:1,8

3:19 25:23 56:361:19 103:3

wouldn't (21) 6:7

10:21 15:2 29:2030:15,19 33:1343:8,12 67:1783:17 93:7,18129:18 157:4 196:4201:19 202:7 205:1206:15 222:11

wound (2) 206:3,10write (22) 12:10 18:9

43:6,11,14,2462:25 74:11 84:1985:6,12,24 86:787:6,20,21 90:1895:4 113:6,12137:24 219:11

writer (1) 105:25writes (2) 25:20

218:22writing (21) 3:8 6:17

9:14 18:23 32:934:6 43:20 44:147:11,12 54:990:23,24 91:6148:4,7 151:11,13217:20,22 218:8

written (39) 5:12 6:116:13,18 7:11 26:729:3 63:3,7,15 65:565:7 66:15,24 67:167:11,13,17 68:2,374:22 78:11 91:1296:22 104:1,4108:22 112:24113:13 137:22146:7 156:19167:22 190:8197:11 200:8 220:1223:4,4

wrong (9) 47:2,3,2348:1,4 74:22109:10 179:14215:4

wrongly (1) 27:11wrote (27) 5:9,17,24

6:4 9:16 27:1334:10 43:9 44:2445:3,4 79:11,1783:25 86:1 91:296:6 108:20,23,24108:25 113:15115:16 116:6,8,9121:14

X

x (1) 218:18

Y

year (1) 121:7years (17) 6:7 22:25

30:4,4 39:13 52:1663:25 64:1,3 67:2367:24 131:17138:15 143:24,25208:15,22

yesterday (13) 2:213:7 25:1 28:12 34:834:12 36:14 170:9172:19 180:25188:8,11 201:9

Yorkshire (1) 160:6

0

01274 (1) 160:4

1

1 (16) 18:23 27:2446:18 126:18160:23,23 161:21193:25 194:5,6

202:17 206:1209:17 220:7,24,25

1st (2) 126:16 128:31.00 (1) 114:1610 (5) 166:5 167:1

192:20 203:2224:21

10.00 (1) 224:2410.23 (2) 88:19,2110.30 (2) 1:2 163:1510/15 (1) 43:1100 (3) 98:24 125:6

132:511.10 (1) 56:411.36 (1) 56:611.46 (1) 55:111.50 (1) 55:3116 (1) 168:10118 (2) 167:7 168:5119 (1) 168:1912 (4) 161:14 185:7

197:9 207:112th (1) 161:16121 (1) 199:6126 (2) 168:19,22128 (1) 225:613 (15) 61:2 72:11

104:15 159:15160:2 162:12170:16,20,22,25171:1,3 194:15206:25 210:17

13th (6) 161:3,7,8,16161:17,19

13.1 (1) 170:2513.3 (1) 171:14131 (2) 225:7,814 (2) 190:9 208:1314th (2) 160:25

161:2315 (4) 2:1,24 203:4

210:1515th (1) 128:216 (11) 8:15 9:8,10

55:8 83:14,22 85:8178:19 179:3 190:9208:22

16th (2) 86:11 90:19161 (2) 173:11,13162 (4) 173:2,11

174:22 175:4163 (1) 173:11164 (1) 173:11166 (1) 178:19167 (3) 179:3 225:9,10168 (4) 179:17 190:22

191:2,3169 (1) 191:1717 (3) 2:6 177:25

211:717th (1) 161:20170 (2) 194:7 225:11170,000 (3) 217:14

218:11 219:1171 (2) 192:18,18172 (1) 193:25173 (1) 194:15174 (1) 195:318 (2) 169:24 213:1218.08 (1) 162:14183 (2) 169:25 196:7184 (1) 196:20188 (1) 197:1919.50 (1) 160:3191 (1) 169:25194 (1) 199:6195 (1) 198:19199 (1) 201:211998 (1) 208:18



2

2 (14) 28:6 29:3 32:934:2,9,9 36:7,15102:18,23,24 114:7114:14 154:4

2.00 (1) 114:1820 (2) 1:1 175:62000 (1) 167:172001 (1) 92:112003 (2) 35:18 195:12004 (1) 82:122006 (7) 195:1,5

209:17 216:1 217:1217:6,11

2006/early (1) 215:182007 (10) 35:16 172:5

174:3,20 195:7208:24 209:5210:24 215:18,24

2008/2009 (1) 144:32009 (5) 27:11 35:19

82:22 159:15 160:22010 (15) 8:23 20:18

24:5 27:12 28:635:21 37:18 97:24101:13 126:1,2,5134:14 208:24210:25

2011 (5) 167:16,19,23168:13,15

2013 (1) 185:72014 (1) 1:1204 (3) 202:14,16,172048 (2) 161:10,152049 (1) 161:132061 (1) 159:172061‐1 (2) 162:17,182062 (1) 159:212063 (1) 159:242067 (2) 160:19

161:20209 (7) 169:12 204:6,7

204:15,17 205:15205:18

21 (3) 190:22 191:7205:11

210 (4) 204:6 205:18205:20,24

214 (2) 217:18,19215 (2) 217:19 218:5216 (2) 218:21,2322 (9) 55:5,8,19 58:11

61:1 73:16 127:13150:7 197:19

224 (1) 221:24228‐1 (1) 223:1423 (6) 24:10,17 25:14

100:11,22 196:2125 (4) 63:14 175:4

205:17,2327 (7) 3:2 25:19 32:8

88:21 102:12103:20 208:15

28 (1) 19:72864 (2) 20:15 97:2429 (5) 1:24 3:7 20:18

97:24 98:2329th (1) 126:152902 (1) 125:252926 (3) 24:3,8 100:102927 (2) 25:17 102:122936 (1) 27:112939 (6) 26:5,6 88:19

88:20,21 103:252943 (2) 19:6 104:252944 (2) 19:8,92945 (2) 18:22 27:232951 (2) 18:21 28:62959 (1) 34:32961 (3) 37:9 134:12

134:162970 (2) 38:6,152972 (1) 38:24

3

3 (7) 37:6,9 134:14204:8,17 205:14,18

3rd (1) 36:153.00 (1) 158:123.05 (1) 158:1430.2 (1) 167:113008 (1) 84:223009 (5) 4:19 44:9

105:12 131:9137:21

3082 (1) 56:63085 (1) 56:33087 (1) 60:203088 (9) 55:21 58:10

59:16 60:1,20 61:161:14 62:5 65:18

3089 (1) 68:203091 (4) 56:9 115:4

118:10 128:203092 (3) 121:2 128:19

128:253093 (1) 122:73095 (4) 56:10 146:25

147:7 148:103096 (1) 152:83097 (1) 56:133187 (7) 58:18 59:11

59:12,25 61:272:11 73:11

3188 (2) 78:24 81:133 (2) 169:1,13

4

4 (6) 161:15 172:2,4199:3 225:2,3

4.30 (1) 166:254.31 (1) 224:234.5 (1) 218:1840 (1) 167:17424 (3) 204:10,11,214334‐2 (1) 159:1245 (1) 161:19

5

5 (7) 172:2,9,21 195:1195:3 205:18,24

50 (2) 218:9 219:2

6

6 (4) 17:25 191:17,18217:19

68 (1) 185:10

7

7 (2) 70:17 175:1170,000 (2) 167:18

168:1

8

8 (8) 10:19 38:1839:14 87:16 179:17179:18 198:19201:21

8th (1) 128:381 (2) 225:4,586 (1) 167:689 (4) 170:20,21

206:23,24

9

9 (6) 9:10 167:6170:20 175:15196:7 206:23

9.05 (1) 56:109.57 (2) 56:12,1393 (1) 167:10

ms swarandeep birdi v (1) specsavers optical group limited (2) mr kamaljit...

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