nabtrade webinar: eofy and post-30 june strategies web viewnabtrade webinar: eofy and post-30 june...

nabtrade Webinar: EOFY and Post-30 June Strategies

Tuesday, 6th June 2017

nabtrade Webinar: EOFY and Post-30 June Strategies

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Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Nabtrade Webinar: EOFY and Post-30 June Strategies. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. We'll be taking

Nabtrade Webinar: EOFY and Post-30 June Strategies Monday, 6th June 2017

questions via web panel. Please be advised that this webinar is being recorded. I would now like to hand the webinar over to your first speaker today. Vishal, thank you. Please go ahead.Vishal Teckchandani: Hello, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to Nabtrade's End of Financial Year and Post-30 June Strategies Webinar. I'm Vishal Teckchandani, Nabtrade's Content Editor, and I'll be your MC for this event. Before we proceed, I need to provide you with a general advice warning. Any advice in this presentation has been prepared without taking into account your goals and needs, and I'd like to particularly emphasise that any tax information in this presentation is provided as a guide only and is based on our general understanding of tax laws, be they legislated or proposed. We do encourage you to seek specialist tax advice to have a plan tailored to your particular objective. Now, let's get to the exciting part. I'm delighted to introduce you to two of the best in the business. We have the lovely, fantabulous Gemma Dale, who will walk you through strategies to maximise your Super and the changes that are going to take place. Then we'll have the wonderful Paul Rickard from the Switzer Super Report, who will discuss strategies to optimise your end-of-financial-year capital gains and tax position, and he will also talk about proposals from the Budget, some key investment strategies that you may want to think about, and then we'll go straight into Q&A. Now, please feel free to submit your questions at any time, and remember, this webinar is not just about Super contributions. So if you've got specific questions about running an SMSF for Gemma or what Paul thinks of the market or a certain stock, do submit it, and we'll do our best to try and cover it at the end. Without further ado, I'll hand over to Gemma.Gemma Dale: Thanks, Vish. It's the first time I've ever been introduced as fantabulous, so that was a brilliant introduction. Thank you very much.Vishal Teckchandani: You're welcome.Gemma Dale: Here's our disclaimer. Vish has already mentioned that we always tell people to get tax advice. We always tell people to take personal advice. This year, we really, really, really mean it. It's quite a complex array of strategies that present themselves to people. With this amount of legislative change, though, if you're in a scenario where this is interesting to you, but you're not quite sure what to do, please go and talk to a professional about your personal circumstances. We're going talk about some of the changes occurring prior to 1st July and some strategies you can undertake. I'm not going to spend too much time on those things that are occurring after 1st July, simply because there's only a couple of weeks left. There's a lot for people to do and we've received a number of questions prior to the session which have made it pretty clear which areas are of most interest to you and which are perhaps not quite so relevant. So we won't spend quite so much time on transition to retirement and a lot more time on pension balance considerations. If you have any additional questions for Vishal, please hand those through. First, the opportunities that present themselves in this very interesting time that we are in. The first is that you should, if you are able, consider maximising your concessional contributions [inaudible]. The concessional contributions are those you make on a pre-tax basis. They are your superannuation guarantee, your 9.5% from your employer. They are salary sacrifice contributions, so those that you instruct to your employer to make on your behalf, and they're any contributions that you can claim a deduction for in your personal name. The reason that we are suggesting people consider maximising those is that the cap that will limit how much you can put in on a pre-tax basis will be lowering on 1st July.

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So currently if you are – I'm going to say under 50, because it's just easier. If you're under 50 you can contribute $30,000 this financial year. If you are over 50, you can contribute $65,000 this financial year, and you can claim a deduction for that amount, whether you're doing it by salary sacrifice, including your [inaudible] or whether you're claiming a deduction in your own personal name. For everyone, that limit will be 25 grand from 1st July. So it's quite a sizable drop. That $10,000 drop for those who are over 50 is pretty substantial, and to many people who are planning to increase their contributions as they get closer to retirement, really were thinking about just taking advantage of that little bit more this year while you can.Key issues to consider, for those who are employed, they're probably at a point where your opportunity to make additional concessional contributions is pretty limited. If you are employed, you are not generally eligible to claim a deduction for contributions made in your own name. You usually need to have a salary sacrifice arrangement in place, and you can only claim a deduction via salary sacrifice for salary you haven't earned yet. Now, in this financial year, that is sort of three weeks left of annual salary. The one scenario where this might be beneficial to you is when you're anticipating a bonus before the end of the financial year that will be paid and allocated to your account before the end of the financial year. If that's the case, have a chat to your employer to see if there's something you can do.Vishal Teckchandani: Right after this webinar. Gemma Dale: Right after this webinar. If you self-employed, you can make personal contributions any time up until the 30 th June deadline and claim a deduction for those, although timing is absolutely imperative. But if the contribution doesn't reach your account until after 1st July, it will be allocated to next year’s account, and you will therefore be hit with next year's cap, not this year's cap. So for those – particularly those without an SMSF, who get a little more time, obviously, make sure that you know what your fund's timing dates are and that you get your money in on time. Next, we're going to talk about maximising your non-concessional contributions. So these are those that you make on an after-tax basis. So you make them from after-tax payroll savings or you make contributions on behalf of your staff, or they make it on your behalf. These ones are changing pretty substantially from 1st July. About 10 years ago, or exactly 10 years ago, we had the first introduction of a cap on what was previously known as undeducted contributions. That has been, frankly, reduced several times since then, in terms of how it can be utilised, and the current cap at $180,000 per annum is going to be reduced to $100,000 on 1st July. The bring-forward rule, which applies to those who are under 65 – really important that you're under 65 if you want to use that – which is currently $540,000 is going to reduce to $300,000. So this matters a lot, if you were planning to make large, last-minute contributions to retirement, which many people do. It matters even more if you have a sizable superannuation balance. If you have over $1.6 million under what's known as your total Super balance – that is your accumulated Super balance across all accounts, both pension and accumulation – you cannot make any after-tax contributions from 1st July.Vishal Teckchandani: It's really your last opportunity. That is what Gemma said.Gemma Dale: This is really your last opportunity, absolutely. So for people in that scenario, the opportunity to contribute now is significant, and we strongly recommend you take advantage of that, if you are able. There are transitional rules that apply, but if you've contributed between $180,000 and $540,000 in 2015 and '16, or '16 and '17, which means you've effectively treated your bring-forward. So get those checked if you're not aware where

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they are. A critical point then again, please don’t exceed your cap, excessive contributions are painful and expensive to manage, so make sure you know exactly how much you can contribute and, again, make sure you watch the timing of those – that they are allocated to your account prior to 30th June. In terms of what strategies are available to you, there are a couple of different ways you can do this. You can use the full $540,000 before 30th June, assuming you haven't used any of your bring-forwards previously, or in the previous two years. You can cash out and re-contribute into your own Super account. For many people that's not terribly beneficial, but you can cash out and contribute into a spouse's account. We're going to talk about this. The scenario where equalising your balances between two members as a couple sort of lost its shine for a while there. It didn't have a lot of substantial benefits, except for estate planning purposes. But suddenly with the $1.6 limit on making non-concessional contributions at all, and on the amount that you can hold on the pension side, suddenly having equalised balances is terribly beneficial, so you may like to think about contributing to your spouse's account, if your spouse has a much lower balance than you have.Vishal Teckchandani: And the thing to emphasise, Gemma, that's the $540,000 per individual right, as well as the $300,000 bring-forward next year.Gemma Dale: That's absolutely right, but if you've used the $540,000 this year you cannot use the $300,000 next, right? You have triggered your bring-forward, so please don't do anything for the next two years. Again, please don't exceed your cap. I will say it every single time. I apologise for the repetitiveness, but it's terribly important. Okay, so the key advice issues to consider. One is transition to retirement. I'm not going to spend too much time on this, for the simple reason that I don't think we've received a single question about it so far, and we've had well over 50 questions, and there seem to be other areas that people are little bit more interested in getting some detail. What's most important about changing with transition to retirement is that those assets that are held in the pension phase in transition to retirement no longer get the concessional tax treatment that applies to pensions. It will be treated like an accumulation save. So you lose that benefit of moving from a 15% tax regime into a 0% tax regime. For those who already have a KPR strategy in place, frankly, there's probably a big question mark about how beneficial this is for you. There will be the removal of the earnings exemption I just mentioned. There's a reduction in the contribution caps we've just talked out, and for who are earning over $250,000 per annum, you'll have an additional 15% tax on contributions. So for you, that kind of triple whammy of reduction in benefits may well make that strategy no longer worthwhile.It’s a scenario where you really need to do your numbers and think through whether this is still of benefit to you. Probably the best response is to determine whether or not you've actually met the condition of release. If you've met a condition of release, you can convert to an account-based pension, which is that middle option presented on screen. The condition of release that's probably most common in this scenario is when you are over 60, and you have terminated an employment contract. It doesn't have to be your primary source of income, it doesn't have to be your main employment arrangement, but say you were – the one we love always is people who are, on election day, manning the polling booths, for example. It's a single employment contract. It only lasts for 24 hours in many cases. Once it's terminated, that will allow you to say, 'I have terminated an employment contract after the age of 60,’ and that will allow you to effectively ensure that all your funds are [inaudible]. The other option is you stop

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your transition to retirement strategy, or you can continue it, if you think it still has benefit for you.We'll move past that one and we're going to go on to pension balances, because we had a lot of questions about this. Paul and I are going to talk about it a little bit later some of the strategies that have been proposed. But in order to clarify some of the important questions people have been asking, so for the first time, we will have a transferred balance cap applied from 1st July 2017. This amount is set at $1.6 million for the first year. It will be indexed over time, and it applies to total pension transfers. The most important word to remember out of that is transfer. So it's not the amount that you hold in pension savings, it’s the amount that you transfer into that – into effectively starting an income stream.Paul Rickard: That's one of the questions people are asking, Gemma. So if you transfer that $1.6 million and some of those assets lose their value – market has a correction or whatever – you can't then plug in that gap, can you?Gemma Dale: No, absolutely not. So it is the amounts that you’ve transferred that is [inaudible]. And it counts both ways, right? So there are both advantages and disadvantages of this. If you transfer your $1.6, or you had $1.6 in pension savings on 1st July, you've used up that cap in full. If, in year two, your balance grows to a $2 million dollars in pension phase, that $2 million, the full amount gets the concessional tax treatment. So you pay no tax on earnings for [inaudible].Paul Rickard: So it's not like you have to transfer 400,000 back into accumulation. No, that is the market value growth, it stays in pension.Gemma Dale: That's exactly right, because it was the amount that you transferred that mattered. On the flip side, if you lose a million dollars in your pension, unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it. It's still the $1.6 that you transferred that is assessed, and the 0% tax on earnings applies to what's left of your pension. If you have more in the pension phases than $1.6 allows, excess transfer balance tax may apply. That tax will be applied at the 15% rate for the first breach. Subsequent breaches – there will be a less benign view taken by the tax office. So, really important to make sure you don't make mistakes on this. There is a six-month window that [inaudible] is giving those with SMSFs, in particular, where assessing the value of assets can be quite difficult on day one to ensure that the amount transferred is correct. So, possible scenarios that people are working through in this situation. So your total Super balance exceeds the $1.6 million and, therefore, in pension phases, you will exceed that general transfer balance cap. You've got a couple of options. One is that you commute back to the accumulation [inaudible] and you will be paying 15% tax on earnings relative to the 0% tax on earnings in pension phases. That may still be very, very, very nice compared to what you pay at your marginal rate. Another option is you withdraw and you invest that [inaudible] superannuation. For others who don't have a lot of assets outside Super, that may be more beneficial. But if you have a spouse who doesn't have a lot of assets outside Super and doesn't have any other income, that may be more beneficial. Alternatively, you can withdraw and invest in your spouse's [inaudible], as we mentioned a little bit earlier. Obviously, please watch your cap. In addition to reviewing your pension balances, there is something for many people to watch, particularly when they're in a self-funded Super fund, and we know that many of our attendees this afternoon or this morning are SMSF trustees. And the lovely thing about SMSFs is you can

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commence a pension pretty much any time, as long you’ve met a condition of release without triggering CGT, which is fantastic most of the time, but in this scenario it can be quite problematic because people who’ve been in pension phases for a while, who were planning to continue a pension and, therefore, sell their assets and pension phases with a 0% CGT liability, now have to commute back to accumulation save, and they're in a scenario where suddenly they’re going to be paying CGT, which was ever anticipated – they never reset their cost base. So the legislation permits CGT release in this scenario. It's available when you have to commute back to Super. The cost base can be reset to market value at effectively 30 th June, 1st

July. Please go and see a tax advisor if you want to take advantage of this. We'd obviously suggest most people will want to take advantage of it. If the pension is in an SMSF, go and seek out an administration or a tax advisor who has experience with this. You as trustee are – really just need to make a minute. Have a trustee meeting and make a minute to the effect that this is what you want to do, and they'll be able to assist you. That was a lot of information in a very short period of time. I'm going to hand over to Paul. Not going to spend too much, finally, on this one, where you can make contributions after 1st July, simply because, frankly, we've got to get through 30th June, and most people are in a scenario where that is the most important objective at this point in time. Paul Rickard: [Inaudible]. So we will skip through to –

Gemma Dale: I'm going to skip through this and I'm going to [inaudible].

Paul Rickard: [Inaudible].

Gemma Dale: There we go.

Paul Rickard: There we go. That's the one we want. Okay, thank you. Gemma’s done a great job explaining that, and I'm sure there's going to be a lot of follow-up questions, particularly, on the $1.6. And I think the other thing to note – I think you made a really important point. Contributions have to be made by 30th June. That means the fund has to bank them, and that also applies for a self-managed Super fund. Don’t leave it to 30th June, because banks are banks sometimes. But also the other point was about your total Super balance, and people from over $1.4 are also impacted, as well. Gemma Dale: They are. Absolutely.Paul Rickard: Which probably just needs a bit of work, as well. So I'm going to talk about some of the tax issues and also some of the investment issues going into 30 th June. Again, we have some important information about [inaudible]. As Vish made very clear at the start of this presentation, if you have any doubts, please go and see the appropriate professional adviser or your accountant, just to make sure that the information is appropriate for you. Okay, let me talk about capital gains and managing some of the tax issues as we go to 30 th

June. Just a couple of basics to recap on capital gains tax. First of all, any sort of disposal of an asset potentially makes you liable for – triggers a capital gains tax event. So the important things to know – the capital gains are added to your taxable income, so they're just treated as part of your normal assessable income. You can only offset capital gains with capital losses, so if you make a loss, that's not a deduction from your tax, but it can reduce your capital gains tax liability. Pretty well every asset is covered by capital gains tax, so shares, land, investment

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properties. There is a division between investable assets and personal use assets, but things like shares and land and managed funds and properties are all in the same category. And, of course, there are two main exemptions for assets that are exempt for capital gains tax. First of all, an asset call before 20th September 1985, and secondly and most importantly, the family home, and that's why we see so many strategies around the family home and [inaudible] invest in the family home or outside it, and all those sort of things, because they are the two main exemptions. So most people don’t have to worry about assets acquired before 20th

September 1985, given that's now 32 years ago. It still applies to some people, but certainly just the family home. And then just on the right hand of the screen, we've just got the normal tax rates which, of course, apply for this financial year. Of course, it's a marginal tax system. So going back to Gemma's point earlier about one of the strategies with your Super, if you're over the $1.6, might be to actually take the money out of Super. If you don't have much other income, of course, the first $18,200 of your income is tax-free. So maximising your – effectively the tax-free component of your personal income is still a very, very valid strategy. Okay, so let's think about some strategies with capital gains tax and, of course, let's think about triggering a capital gains tax event which, of course, is any disposal. So a disposal is something like selling a chair, selling your property. It's also a transfer. So if you are transferring assets into Super, for example, doing an in-species transfer, that's also – potentially triggers – is a disposal for capital gains tax and may trigger a liability. So the first strategy, of course, is just to think about whether you want to defer the sale for capital gains tax purposes, and that's simply because an asset that's been held for more than 12 months is potentially eligible for a discount. So if you sell an asset which you've held for less than 12 months, you pay capital gains tax on the whole amount. If you sell an asset after 12 months and one day and you're an individual, you only pay tax on half the gain, because there's a discount of 50%. For Super funds, the discount is 33%, and for companies there's no discount. So that's just a very quick, simple question about timing. If you're selling an asset, just think about whether you've owned it less or more than 12 months. The second strategy, of course, is if you reduce any capital tax liability with losses, so you can offset gains with losses. Importantly, there is no set method, particularly if you’ve got a lot of – you have – might own some shares and you might have invested in things like a different reinvestment plan, or you might have acquired, say, you know, model parcels of shares. There is no formula from the tax office that says that you have to, for example, take a FIFO approach of a LIFO approach. So if you've got multiple parcels of an asset, you can actually look at which of those parcels gives you the best outcome from a capital gains tax point of view. So – and you don’t have to be consistent. You can use a FIFO method one year and you can use a LIFO method the next year. So there is no rule from the tax office, so you can choose essentially the parcels that potentially either minimises the gain or allows you to maximise the loss that you're offsetting. If you do make a loss, again, you can only offset losses against gains, but don't forget about it, because you can carry forward a loss indefinitely. And so this raises always a good a question – have you had any losses from previous financial years that you've never been able to offset – use against the gain? So don't forget about a loss, always get that recorded as part of your tax return with your accountant. And one day, when you do have a gain, you potentially can use that loss to offset against the gain.And then finally, just think about the tax position. Again, if you’ve had some gains through the year, you may like to look at some of the other investments you have, think about whether

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there’s any – makes sense from a tax point of view and an investment point of view to crystallise some losses. You’ve got to be careful of this. You can’t do wash trades and, again, you might just want to check with your accountant.But certainly as we come to 30th June, it’s one of the sort of the downward impacts of the market. We’ll see a little bit of what we call tax loss selling because people will be looking at their portfolios, thinking about capital gains tax issues, and then potentially on the back of that, making decisions either to, you know, crystallise some losses or maybe even crystallise some gains. Again, never make tax the primary driver with investments. It’s just a consideration but, again, it’s an important consideration because, you know, we only need to – it does impact potentially our investment returns.So let’s see, we’ve got an example here. I don’t know – just pick this up, Vish, if you want. No. We’ve got an example here about just how do capital gains tax works. So Stephen triggers a capital gains tax event by selling [inaudible] shares in this current year. In the example, he purchased the shares in May 2012 for $52. He sells them for $80. After brokerage, he has a capital gain of $2,760. Now, if it – if that was all that he was doing, and that was the only transaction he had through all the year, he’d then be able to apply the 50% discount because he’d held the asset for more than 12 months, and a half of that or $1,380.05, I think, if my math is correct – that would go into his normal assessable income, and he’d be taxed at whatever the – his marginal tax rate was at the time.So – and potentially, you know, if he didn’t have much other income, he may not end up paying any tax at all on that gain. So don’t – just because you have a capital gain, doesn’t mean you’re necessarily going to pay tax, because you’re only taxed at your effective marginal tax rate. However, you can offset losses against gain, so in the same year, he triggers a loss by selling his [inaudible] shares that he purchased back in 2000 – I think this case was about 2007. He bought [inaudible] shares in T3 at $7.40. He sells those for $4.50. Cost base there is $7,400, and the sale after brokerage is $4,485.05. That gives him a capital loss of $2,914.95. For this financial year, he can offset the gain against the loss. So the gain of $2,760 is fully offset by the loss of $2,914. So additional pay – so he won’t any capital gains tax this year, but in addition he has a carry-forward loss of $140-odd dollars – $154.85 – that he can carry forward to potentially next year. And if he makes a gain in fiscal year 2018, he can offset the gain with that loss of $154.Vishal Teckchandani: And that’s something you emphasise a lot to people, Paul, isn’t it, to keep the record of your losses?Paul Rickard: Yes. Transaction records here for this – the tax office are really important. So whenever you’re doing a transaction in shares, the most important document is that contract note. They’re now issued online, so you can put them in your online storage and I’m sure Nabtrade – you can access them for many years.Vishal Teckchandani: You absolutely can.Paul Rickard: But if you’ve got any old shares – a lot of people do, and the days when we didn’t have email and the electronics, hang on to those notes, hang on to those records and make sure your work [inaudible] your accountant. Make sure that’s all fully documented.Okay. Let’s talk about some tax strategies as we move into 30 th June. There are sort of three obvious strategies just from a personal taxation point of view. First of all, basic principle with any cash taxpayer – and most individuals and most companies are cash taxpayers – is, if you can, bring forward deductions and potentially delay income. So bring forward deductions into

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the 2016-17 year. In other words, if you can – you’ve got the cash flow, spend the money now and if you're going to get some income, if you’ve – for example – obviously you can’t if you’re working, but if you’re self-employed or have another business, maybe you get your customers to pay you on 1st July and that week, assuming your cash flow allows that type of transaction.So, again, some critical rules with anything with tax. Deductions must relate to the production of income. That’s sort of principle number one. And secondly, tax shouldn’t be the primary driver here. This is only a strategy just to do with the timing of when you’ll actually pay for – pay tax. So all it’s doing is shifting tax from one year to the next.Anyhow, with days of low interest rates, that’s not as effective as it used to be. A good example of that for personal taxpayers, say you’ve got a subscription to an investment newsletter. You got a choice of paying it on 30th June or 1st July. Pay it on 30th June because you can claim the tax deduction this year. Pay it on 1st July, you can’t claim a tax deduction until the following tax year.Think about things like interest in advance on margin lines and investment property loans. That’s getting a little more tricky on the property loans but, again, the same sort of principle. Tax office says you can prepay interest for up to 13 months in advance. Now if you – for example, you have a margin loan. Now, if you prepay the interest which takes you forward to the end of June, say, of 2018, you can claim all the deductions for that interest in this financial year.Now, of course, prepaying interest, you’ve got to have the cash flow to support it. So if you haven’t got the cash flow, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. And then there may be some other positives and minuses. Again, shifting the – fixing your rate – maybe you might have a view that interest rates are going to fall during the year, so therefore paying a fixed rate for a year – most of the prepayments would be at a fixed rate – may not make sense. Again, it’s up to you and it’s all about cash flow and the best. And again – again, all you’re doing is shifting the deduction to this year rather than next year. So examples of that are margin loans and obviously also investment property loans or home loans, investment property loans. Obvious candidates to prepay.And thirdly, if you are a small business, don’t forget about the incentives that the government has in place for small to medium enterprises. They’re now satisfied with having a turnover of less than $20 million, so that certainly brings in most small businesses. The most obvious one is the [inaudible] asset write-off. That allows you to write off this year any asset up to the value of $20,000. That excludes the GSTs not in the $20,000, it’s actually the $20,000 is actually the purchase amount.It can apply to multiple assets, so you can buy the copier, maybe the van, if you get it for $20,000, maybe the computer. You can buy as many assets as you want up to $20,000. But just two things to keep in mind. You can only claim a deduction against assessable income. If you haven’t got any income that’s assessed for tax purposes, the deduction doesn’t make any sense, right? Deductions are going to be wasted. And then of course, you know, if you don’t need the assets, then, you know, this is a tax [inaudible]. It’s not – it’s not going to make any sense to buy assets you don’t need. So all of this is about –Vishal Teckchandani: Don’t buy assets just to write them off.Paul Rickard: Don’t buy assets just to write them out – off. If you haven’t got aseessable income, then don’t do it as well. So – but that incentive is there, and for small businesses that

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need something, you know, to improve their net capital in their business to grow, certainly doing it before 30th June is going to be a strategy that makes sense.So they’re the sort of tax strategies. I won’t dwell too much on these things. Just, I think, in the interest of time, we shall – there are – we’re just going to touch on three proposed changes in the Budget. We’ll just leave this on the slide. One – they’re all subject to legislation, and the third one on there about SMSS and loans may not go ahead, simply because they’re finding it a little bit challenging working out how to do that. Do you want to comment?Gemma Dale: Yeah, a little content on that, simply because we had made the assumption that – one of the proposals was that borrowing in service of LRBAs was going to be counted against your total fixed [inaudible] cap. And then when the legislation was introduced, they’d left that out. And we said, ‘Oh, marvellous. They’re not going to do that now.’ I’ve spoken to someone with the inside word, and he said, ‘No, it’s still policy. They’re still intending to do it. They just haven’t worked out how to draft the legislation yet.’ And we – or certainly the bodies that govern some of these areas are anticipating that legislation a bit later in the year. So it’s designed to take effect either from 1st July or the date of the legislation’s enacted. It could be any time.Paul Rickard: It could be any time. So again, it’s like all these things with superannuation, all the – and any tax changes, they’re always subject to legislation. And when these things are announced in the Budget, you get about a – about a 100-word statement as to how’s it going to work. And then we’re asked all these questions which I don’t – until we see the legislation, we don’t actually know.Even things like the First Home Super Savers, still lots of data on that to come through. And the downsizing one I think is going to suit many of the audience but – so we’ll leave that up there and you can go back – there’ll be certainly more information on these in the coming months as we actually see just how they’re set out in the law.Okay. Just finally just to get – talk about getting ready for 2017-18 and some investment considerations. Investors, particularly in self-managed Super funds, you should have an investment strategy. You’re actually required to have an investment strategy. That’s a requirement under the law. That should be a document.Vishal Teckchandani: And it’s every three years that need reviewed, or –Paul Rickard: No. It’s the – the legislation says it should be reviewed on a periodic basis. It doesn’t define what periodic is. I suggest that’s at least a year, and it’s the ideal time to actually dig it out and just to make sure it’s still appropriate, particularly all the changes in Super. But also, you should also review it whenever circumstances change. For example, if one member goes from – retires, potentially, and moves to the pension phase, that’s a good chance to review it because it really does outline what’s your investment strategy is and how you’re going to approach things. Also, you’re also under obligation at least to consider insurance. And then if you make a decision that you don’t want insurance in your fund, you should get that documented as part of your trustee minutes. But end of year is a great time just as a – a good time to bring out the investment strategy and check that it’s still appropriate.Next one is around your asset allocation. And again, different funds and different investors are going to have different asset allocations. Most of the research is going to say that asset allocation is the most important consideration when it comes to investment returns. More important is things like security selection. So let me just take you forward to another – to a slide here which you can read at your leisure. But again, we’ve just got some sort of fairly

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standard sort of descriptions of different risk profiles. There are as many of these as you want. But they go from sort of secure and [inaudible] all the way thorough to a high-growth investor. They – they’re just descriptors. But the important part to note is really the top of the slide, and you’ll see that as you go from a very secure asset allocation, most of the assets you’re investing are income-type assets. Things like cash and term deposits and fixed-interest securities, where there is very – shouldn’t be any or very limited change to the capital price of the asset. So income-based will give – and also won’t go up in price, so they don’t have any growth characteristics. As you go obviously to a high growth profile, almost all the assets become growth-based assets like shares and property and potentially commodities and anything else that’s going to give you potential growth over the long term.And then you’ve got some asset allocations. Again, there are other asset classes, but you’ve got there some sample – some targets around some of the broad-based asset classes between, you know, fixed income property, Australian shares, international shares. And you can add some other ones here as well. So I always encourage people, when they’ve got questions about shares or individual assets, the most important question I say is get the asset allocation right. That’s what the research says and again, it will depend on you, depending on lifestyle, climate needs, investment needs, all your own circumstances as to what is appropriate, and also what you feel comfortable with – what’s appropriate for you.The third one is sector allocation. Once we work out our asset allocation, when we get into something like the equities market, I use a top-down approach and I go back to the sectors. There are 11 basic sectors in the market. And I think here about which sectors I want to have exposure to. So it’s very hard to invest in the Australian share market and not have exposure to the financial sector. Current weighting there about 39.2%, the largest sector. And of course, that’s the major banks and the insurance companies and the diversified financials like – like Challenger. But, you know, again, there are 11 sectors. You don’t have to be in every sector but they are very different – have very different characteristics. And I think as an investor, when you are thinking about – you’ve already decided you want some money in the Australian share market. I think come around 30th June, it’s always a good time to go back to basics and say, well, let’s look at how I’m actually exposed to each of the sectors. And if the bias that I have there – in other words, I’m well underweight of what the market says I should be, or well overweight because I have more than what the market index says – is that bias appropriate for my needs and going to give me the best – the type of return I want to take?And then finally, just one other point. 30th June is always a good time to review your stocks. The hardest thing in the markets is actually to recognise you’ve got a stock that’s a dog with fleas [inaudible] first loss is your best loss, and although I’m not trying to encourage tax loss selling, it’s a good sort of point in time just to double-check that portfolio is right.If it’s something you really don’t like and it’s giving you no return and you can’t see what’s going to change, and you just like your vision cleared so you can think about other things that are going to improve that return, that might be a good time to throw out those dogs and move on into the 2017-18 years with a clear – I won’t say clear financial conscience, but anyhow, [inaudible] what you might do from an investment perspective.Vishal Teckchandani: Excellent. Thank you so much, Paul. We’ll just switch over to the Q&A slide. So it is my favourite part of these events.Paul Rickard: [Inaudible] Vish, is that right?

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Vishal Teckchandani: That’s right. That’s right. That’s the next one. And so we’ve had a lot of questions in so far, and the most popular one is about the transfer balance cap. And so people are particularly asking about strategies to split money between the accumulation and the pension account. What do your thoughts on that, Gemma and Paul? How can this be done effectively and what are the risks?Gemma Dale: Thanks. So Paul and I had a conversation about this one earlier. We got a number of questions prior to the session and some coming through during the session, so thank you for those. Always makes it much more fun.This I find a really interesting question. So the most important thing is for those of you with an SMSF – and that’s the vast majority of people, from the questions we’ve received so far. Currently, you can have your income assessed in two different ways for tax purposes, if your fund is both in accumulation phase and pension phase.So, two different ways you can set up your fund. One is that you segregate your assets for tax purposes, which means that you have two completely separate accounts of assets. You have two separate cash accounts, you have two separate trading accounts, you have two separate everything. One is the accumulation, one is the pension phase. And for tax purposes, the amount that is assessed against each is purely based on the assets that support those particular structures. So the accumulation account will just be assessed on the cash and trading and whatever else that you have behind it, and the pension on the other.For the unsegregated method, or the method that is not the segregated method, as it’s referred to under the law, basically the big pool. So if you earned 2% on your cash and 6% on your shares and whatever else it might be, irrespective of whether it’s an accumulation phase of pension phase, the overall fund is assessed on its income. And then the tax rate is determined proportionately, based on the amount that you have in each. So if you have 50% in the accumulation phase and 50% in pension phase, you effectively pay half the rate of tax that applies to an accumulation phase fund. That ends on 1st July if you have over $1.6 million in your fund. So the proportionate method will apply to every single fund or every single account where the fund has both accumulation and pension assets. You can’t separate them for tax purposes and run the segregated method.Hence this question about what you do. So everyone is then saying, ‘Well, could I consider potentially starting a new fund, whether an SMSF or a public offer fund, and rolling assets supporting the pension into one and retaining the accumulation in the other?’ So then one fund is taxed at 0% and the other is taxed at 15%, or a maximum of 15% depending on any deductions you might have. So that’s an option. Another is that while the tax treatment will always be proportionate, that you run different investment strategies so you have segregated assets for investment purposes. I’m just explaining the options at the moment. I’m not recommending either of these. Paul and I will have a chat about whether or not we think they’re viable. For investment purposes, you can still run segregated account, right? So you can still for your accumulation phase – unless it’s a fund that has 3.2 for a single person, so 1.6 million in accumulation, 1.6 in pension on 1st July. The 1.6 in accumulation you can have all in cash, and then all of the pension you could have in shares, for example, [inaudible] as an example. For tax purposes, that’s completely irrelevant. The total earnings of the fund will get 50-50 tax treatment. But theoretically any growth in the asset will be allocated according to the investment strategy, not according to the tax treatment. So you would then have 2% in earnings, assuming you didn’t spend them, allocated to the accumulation account and any

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growth and reinvested earnings received is added to the pension account, and that 50-50 might then come to 48-52 and then 46-54 and so on over time. So the theory that people are employing in that particular scenario is that over time you’ll be able to change the tax treatment because you changed the proportion.Paul, I’m going to throw to you now. What are your thoughts on this idea?Paul Rickard: Yeah, I think – I think people are putting too much focus on worrying about paying a little bit of tax and not worrying about the risk and also the fact that it’s very, very difficult to predict investment returns. And deciding what’s a growth asset and what’s an income asset sometimes can be a little tricky, it will pay some shares where sometimes the dividends are as important as the growth.So clearly, you know, doing something – if you’ve got, you know, big single assets like property, like a single property or maybe a bigger picture of artwork or something – you know, where there’s only going to be growth and there is no income. It’s going to make sense trying to do something with that asset and working out the strategy [inaudible] best outcome.If you’ve got a more – a very traditional portfolio, so lots of shares where could we have high dividends, sometimes working out what’s going to give you an income and then what’s going to give you a capital return is going to be pretty tricky. And the cost of going through some of these strategies and the extra admin costs and accountancy costs may well and truly outweigh the benefits from a financial and tax point of view.Gemma Dale: Yes. Paul Rickard: So I probably – I’m not a huge fan of doing too much unless you got the asset – type of assets that I described. And I’d be very careful with some of the advice out there, because I think costs of setting up a second fund – you can do that, but that’s going to cost a couple grand a year. And then having a segregated investment strategy and running segregated accounts is – that’s going to be – there’s an expense on that, right?Gemma Dale: Absolutely.Paul Rickard: [Inaudible], you know.Gemma Dale: Yeah.Paul Rickard: So you’ve got to be – as I said, if ever we could predict investment returns with 100% accuracy, it wouldn’t be a problem –Gemma Dale: Yes.Paul Rickard: – but we can’t. And I just thought, one other point I want to make, sort of not related to this but a lot of questions coming through are about the pension account and things like tax deductions.Gemma Dale: Yes. Yeah.Paul Rickard: And I just want to be very, very clear out there for everyone who’s asked those questions, that in pension phase, tax rate is 0%. Yeah, because the tax rate is 0%, you don’t have a deduction.Gemma Dale: No. You have no assessable income –Paul Rickard: No assessable income.Gemma Dale: Therefore, there are no deductions.

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Paul Rickard: If you have no assessable income, you can’t have any deduction. So there’s quite a few questions [inaudible] because I think sometimes people forget, it’s only looking from a – this whole issue around what to do is only a tax question. And there are things you can do from a tax point of view but there are also risks because, you know, investment returns are not predictable, nor are asset values. And often there’s a lot of extra cost in doing some of these strategies and you need to weigh them up and think about that very carefully. Well, definitely –Gemma Dale: The one thing that I would add to that which I think perhaps people have not anticipated, but it’s absolutely in line with what you’re saying, is things can go the other way. If you started this in 2007, it’s 10 years ago now, right? So we had the peak of the market and then a very substantial downturn. If you started this strategy in 2007 and you did a 50-50 and you transferred all of your growth assets into the pension phase, you would have then had a proportionate balance of about 30-70 within 12 months.Paul Rickard: Yeah.Gemma Dale: So you would’ve had the opposite effect. And as we mentioned, you can’t go back up to the 1.6. It’s based on that transfer balance, and therefore you would have achieved the exact opposite of what you were trying to achieve by having separate investment strategies. You can change that strategy if you wish to. That’s fine if you don’t want to segregate for investment purposes any more. But a lot of early complexity in cost and so on – yeah, obviously, think of that. For those with enormous balances, it’s worth thinking about. You know, there are a handful of funds in Australia that have over $100 million in assets. I imagine they’re getting very good advice about what’s [inaudible] them because the tax impost is substantial. But for those who are only exceeding their cap by a small amount, you do have to question whether some of these strategies are really going to make a substantial difference.Paul Rickard: And look, just add up the cost of the administration. Remember also, I think – I just – I want to raise the point about deductions. But the other point to remember is that we only pay tax on actual income received, not on unrealised income. So, you know, as I’m saying, it’s very hard to work out whether an asset’s going to give you income on hand or in unrealised income. For example, a share goes up in value. Just because the share goes up in value, there’s no tax to pay until you crystallise it, otherwise you dispose of it. So it’s just – I think it’s very hard to say if this asset is going to give me income, you know, realised income and this asset is just going to give me unrealised income. I think it’s hard to actually work out that distinction. So the cost of paying 15% tax on a share that’s paying a dividend of 4% that’s fully [inaudible] versus, you know, paying a 0% tax on that and having cash that’s earning 2% - you know, it could be pretty marginal, and you might be paying an extra couple of thousand dollars in accounting fees –Gemma Dale: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Paul Rickard: – to have the pleasure of minimising your tax bill by a few hundred dollars. It’s just – it’s just a – you got to be very careful with this. It’s definitely something to think about very, very carefully.Vishal Teckchandani: So we’ve got a question from Matthew about – going back to your slide, Gemma, you know, with this $1.6 million transfer balance cap that’s worth thinking about spouse contributions. So Matthew’s asking, how does it apply in terms of taxation treatment? And then we’ve got Ramsam [?] who’s asking, if you then turn over so many five years with a total superannuation balance of over 2 million, how much can I transfer to my spouse on an annual basis?

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Gemma Dale: So Ramsam [?], I’m going to answer your question first and I’m sorry, I’ve got bad news. If you are over 75, you cannot contribute unless your spouse is under 75. If your spouse is under 65, you absolutely can contribute on her behalf – I’m assuming you’re a man and she’s a woman – for tax purposes. So if she’s under 65, you can contribute on her behalf. If she is between 65 and 75, she needs to meet the work test in order for you to contribute for her, and she is limited to $100,000 per annum from 1st July. Someone in the queries, and I’m sorry, it’s a little bit – I can’t see it right now – made the comment that you can use the three-year bring-forward over 65. I’m sorry, that’s not correct. You can’t, and I’m happy to send you the legislative reference if you need it or if there’s someone giving you incorrect advice on that, but you can’t use the bring-forward once you’re over 65 years of age. So Ramsam [?], unless you’re –Paul Rickard: I think the technical data is you need to be 64 – aged 64 or under at the 1st July of the start of the year.Gemma Dale: Yeah, I said it right.Paul Rickard: But if you turned 65 in 16-17, you’re probably still eligible, but – you were 64 at the start of the year.Gemma Dale: At some point during the year. Yeah, that’s –Paul Rickard: But you’re actually right, the legislation is crystal clear on this, as Gemma alluded to.Gemma Dale: Yeah, once the end of that year is over, you can’t use the bring-forward any more. So Matthew has asked about contribution splitting, which is a little different, Matthew. I’m assuming you’re not talking about withdrawing and re-contributing on behalf of your spouse. Contribution splitting is for concessional contributions only, so pre-tax contributions, and it allows you to split or have transferred from your account to your spouse’s account 85% of the amount that you contributed or your employee contributed on your behalf. So that 85% means they’ve taken the 15% contribution tax out. It goes across to your spouse’s account. A few things you need to watch, so please don’t roll your money out first. That has happened, and people then get really cranky that they can’t split money that’s no longer in the account. That’s very difficult for us to help with. But splitting this 85% of effectively your pre-tax contributions and, to your question, yes, it can include your superannuation guarantee.So that can work for some people if you’ve already gotten over your 1.6 or you’ve got large amount in your super and your spouse has very little, you can split your concessional contribution [inaudible].Paul Rickard: There’s one other point on that. Because you actually did have 12 months after the financial year to do it, you can still actually split last year’s contributions if you – if you tell your fund by 30th June, or if your own self-manager super fund – you make the instruction to do so. So you could potentially split contributions you made in – correct me if I’m wrong, Gemma, but in financial year 2015-16.Gemma Dale: Yes. So only –Paul Rickard: But only [inaudible].Gemma Dale: Yeah, yeah, as long you got your paperwork done right, absolutely.

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Paul Rickard: Yeah, and as a matter – if your spouse has used his or her cap, does it matter? Does that impact it?Gemma Dale: Absolutely not. It doesn’t count against their cap. It’s already been assessed against yours.Vishal Teckchandani: All right. Okay, a question from Jeffrey. Do I need a new trustee for my [inaudible] after 30th June?Gemma Dale: It’s a really good question, Jeffrey. We would recommend you have it looked at, particularly if you haven’t had it looked at for a long time. You don’t need a new one, right? You just need someone to take a look at it, make sure there’s nothing in there that prevents you from taking advantage of new opportunities or effectively locks you into older structures that are no longer relevant. But no, you don’t need a new trustee, but have someone run an eye over it if it’s been a while since you’ve done that.Vishal Teckchandani: Okay. Now, let’s move on to some investment-related questions. A lot of people want your thoughts on the markets, Paul. So the first question is – on investment is, is there a major storm coming up in the financial market? So we’ve the UK election coming up this weekend. We also got to talk of a technical recession in Australia. National [inaudible] tomorrow but, you know, Nab has a – in its commentary, suggested that perhaps a tough second quarter’s growth might be weighed down by Cyclone Debbie. So, what are you seeing in terms of the market and then how do you adjust your investment strategy? And, Gemma, does that mean you stop what you do in terms of, you know, your superannuation contribution strategy and how you go there?Paul Rickard: Yeah. I’m probably a little cold in the market at the moment just because – and it is tracking to go up. Now, just to put that in context, if the US market continues to go up, we will follow, okay? And they seem to be happy to make new highs and they don’t seem to be too concerned about whether President Trump gets his policies through or not. They – you know, the US, unemployment is low, employment is strong, the consumer is confident. It looks like they’re enjoying summer and, you know, the data there has been pretty good to support that the economy is going pretty well. So, you know, overall direction of the market still largely depends on the US. When it’s going up, we’re not going to go down much.However, I do think we’re – we are struggling and so I think we’re going to lag the US market, so if they turn down we’ll go down a little bit harder. So I’m in the camp that I think it’s – overall, I think it’s time to be – not necessarily taking money off the table, just be a little more circumspect about the market. I don’t think this is great buying just at these levels, I just can’t see the value there. I think that’s what the fund managers are telling you, because if you look at some of the crazy prices being paid for super-safe stocks like Sydney Airport and Transurban, and you realise that it’s people just desperate to find something to put their money into because, you know, they’re a little bit concerned of obviously with the outlook for some of the major commodity prices, basically had a good run but are pulling back because there’s been – it helps us sort of – you know, the [inaudible] revenue, so much fear about the, you know, Amazon and the impact on the retailers, and obviously the consumer is down a bit.So, we need a bit of local good news, maybe that’ll come with our August earnings season. We need some news to sort of give our market, I think, a bit more independence, but I just can’t see that in the short term. So, I don’t see any – I don’t see any major storm. I mean, obviously there’s always the black swans we don’t know about. But I think it’s more – probably I see the greater risk being a pullback in the US, requiring us to pull back a bit harder.

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Vishal Teckchandani: Okay. And I just note that, in the weekend paper, Ross Gittins published a column with ‘don’t worry, the recession we’re bound to have with – have will come sooner or later’. Reminiscent to Paul Keating –Paul Rickard: Yeah.Vishal Teckchandani: – 20 or so years ago.Paul Rickard: Well, again, good national accounts tomorrow – and there are predictions for, you know, [inaudible]. So, I think the change is still around 0.3%, with a growth rate of 1.6, but would not be surprised if by some reason that slipped into a negative. But, anyhow, I think that’s the unlikely scenario, but the data is what it is.Vishal Teckchandani: So, Paul, you mentioned Sydney Airport and obviously infrastructure stocks like this, you know, the valuations, their PEs are very, very high. So, one question we have is dividends – so where are you finding value in terms of dividend shares? What would be Paul Rickard’s top three picks for, say, FY 2018?Paul Rickard: Yeah. Because I’m a little bearish, I’m looking for things I think are reasonably insulated. I mean – but most things are getting insulated, but I think stocks like ASX and AIG – that’s the insurance group. Most of this reinsurance risk has gone, so you don’t have to worry about the storms too much.Vishal Teckchandani: And the Fed raising rates – would that help in terms of the – Paul Rickard: Yeah. That will help longer term. So, I think – yeah – they’re now much more protected and insulated against some of the typical one-off risks that impact insurance companies, and I think that they’re pretty strong companies. I think they’re still fairly safe stocks.[Inaudible] is probably in the same category, although it’s impacted by the takeover, but that will probably be – that’s depressed the price. I still quite like the banks, but would like to see them pull back a little bit more. And even [inaudible], although it’s been impacted by a bit of Amazon – it’s still a pretty predictable and good yielder, and cash flow there’s not going to change too much.Vishal Teckchandani: Okay. And, Gemma, we’ll just get you to step in there.Gemma Dale: Yeah.Paul Rickard: Do you want to answer that question about Super, because if you don’t like the market, should you still be making Super contributions?Vishal Teckchandani: That’s exactly it.Gemma Dale: So we were talking about this one earlier. We make this point all day every day, and I’ve been making it, I think, every single day of my career. [Inaudible] is not an asset, right? It’s not an asset class. It’s a tax structure. So, unless you have some reason to dislike the tax structure, what’s happening in markets is not a reason to avoid discontinuation. There’s a question from Elizabeth Axel [?] saying, ‘Do you need to consider your expected balance at retirements for non-concessional contributions rather than your current balance?’ And I’m guessing, based on her email address, that Elizabeth is still working.No. With a 15% tax rate relative to your personal rate, to the point that Paul made, obviously. There are those with a lower tax rate where this is not that beneficial, but for the rest of us, this is a great structure. It’s a really good place to have your money. You can’t touch it until your

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retirement, obviously, but even when you do get to retirement, $1.6 million where you pay no tax on earnings is a very beneficial place to be. So, despite there being very little as we get excited about in markets, you can invest in cash within your Super fund if that’s what you wish to do.Paul Rickard: And if you are in a retail or industry fund, I mean, you can always look at the investment option or put the new contributions in your additional investment option. All of those funds offer things like – all have cash or fixed-income options. So – and you can change. You don’t have to just change in your balance, you can change what the instruction is for the new contribution. So, you can actually change it. Most of the funds are [inaudible] flexibilities and you can direct that. So, it’s not a reason not to make contributions to Super.Gemma Dale: Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.Paul Rickard: Where you invest is totally a separate decision.Gemma Dale: Mm-hmm.Vishal Teckchandani: So, two separate decisions.Paul Rickard: Yeah.Vishal Teckchandani: All right, excellent. We will wrap it up then. That is all we have time for. There were a lot of questions there. Now, I’ll point you to some other material on the Nabtrade website where you will find more answers and more information for those.So, on this slide here, I’ll just spend one minute talking about our SMFS establishment service. So we know that this year is a time when people are looking at their portfolios, their balances, their estimates at Super, and certainly, you know, if this is time of the year you’re considering starting up an SMSF, please do a lot of research and, as part of that research, do visit www.nabtrade.com.au/smsf to obtain a lot of great information in terms of setting up an SMSF.We had a couple of questions about, you know, what portfolio balances do I need, and we have some FAQs there to answer those. Heffron is a very established provider. So we can help you set up your SMSF, get it registered with the ATO, and you get a Nab account and Nabtrade account with that.Gemma Dale: Via that offer, they did have a special deal for Nab customers, so it’s nice to get a bit of a discount on their standard fees.Vishal Teckchandani: Awesome, great point for me. And with that, we will finish up here. So, please visit www.nabtrade.com.au for more information. Do contact us if you need any more information. We appreciate you – we have run a bit over time, so we do appreciate you staying on.We just ask if you can please complete the survey questions after this webinar. We will email you a replay link, and I mentioned that there is additional information about end-of-financial-year strategies. So, please visit www.nabtrade.com.au/eofy to access that great content.I’m Vishal Teckchandani. Paul, Gemma, thank you so much for being here.Paul Rickard: Thank you, Vishal.Vishal Teckchandani: And a pleasure hosting you.Gemma Dale: Thanks, Vish. And for all the questions that came through, we’re very happy to try and answer those afterwards if we can.

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Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our webinar for today. Thank you for participating. Bye.[END OF TRANSCRIPT]

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