older guys

8/18/2019 Older Guys

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Getting Younger Girls As An Older Guy 1


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Getting Younger Girls As An Older Guy2

To : Professional Coworkers, Male and Female

From : BlueRibbon

Re : Older Guys and Younger Women: my routine for slamming the issue that I’m 55

and she’s only 22 years old

Date : May 2, 2005

So you’re 55 years old and you’ve met a beautiful, 22 year old woman. You want to develop an exciting, pas-

sionate, vibrant sexual relationship with her. A predictable element of this story will be that at some point she

will raise the issue of age, as in “I don’t date old men,” and you’ll have to deal with it. Or, get to deal with it.

Follow my guidance and your advanced age becomes a great advantage.

Not sure that you, as a man over 50, should even consider dating younger women? Is it a matter of ethics,

culture, or one of possibilities open to you? While the short answer is, “an intelligent 60 year old who makes

a point of picking up basic gaming skills can easily date [meaning, enjoy mutual, enthusiastic sex with] wom-

en age 20-25,” I expand on this unfamiliar notion for those in doubt in an appendix to this memo.

If you already believe that you are entitled to date any woman you want, even those so young or beautiful asto be seen as “out of your league” by misinformed neighbors, then you can probably use some guidance on

how to get past objections to your age.

I have experimented with methods to make age a non-issue in pickup interactions and offer my experiences.

I’ll assume that you have some minimal “Game”; that is, you understand basic seduction theory as espoused

on Fastseduction.com or by David DeAngelo, Mystery, Style and similar teachers. If, on the other hand, you

have no idea what “Game” is and this requirement is a mystery to you, then this memo will be premature. Get

game first—learn the Science of Pickup—and this memo will round out your education.

Notes on Age Limits: the “Envelope”

Age 55 is not the upper limit by any means. I am simply age 55 writing this. Indications are that everything

here will work just as well for a guy 78 years old so long as he remains intellectually active, sexually capable,

and either possess now, or determines to develop, the necessary pickup “gaming” skills to make a woman

attracted to him. If you’re 78 years old, substitute in your mind “78 years old” wherever I make reference to

a younger male reader … and then write me about your experiences [“field reports”] so I can include them in

the next edition of this memo.

As an aside, I watched a 78 year old retired airline pilot run his “habitual” game, without seemingly noticing

that he was still doing it, routinely capturing the attention of women 19 to 22 years old. One pretty little gro-cery store clerk immediately asked

around to discover his name and then phoned, while I was visiting him, on the pretext that he had left pocket

change at the store and she wanted to return it to him! This shit works.


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Getting Started

First steps remain unchanged. I’ll assume you found, met, opened, transitioned, and have worked your at-

traction game to the point where the target (the pretty thing that just happens to be much younger than you) is

now interested in you—but she has begun to shit-test you on your age and you note this is where things are

likely to start coming apart. E.g., “Ew. Old men are icky!” may be right around the corner.

So. What do you do next?

Handle the Age Issue for Her Benefit and Yours

AA single woman in isolation is not the problem because if she is attracted to me, nothing else matters. It is

up to me to prosecute the contact in a way that I do not overstep her developing attraction for me, and that

I manage my behavior so that she feels safe where she needs to feel safe, “threatened” where she

wants to feel “threatened” (which relates to her need for exciting sex, and in no way suggests vio-

lence or meanness on my part), and that I remain high value, interesting, and non- needy. Standard attraction

material works well.1 I am cool and I can walk away. I am the Tao of Steve. If this is how our relationship

develops over the first few minutes and hours, then age is not likely to be an issue. As the cliché goes, it’s a

matter of Mind over Matter: “If she don’t Mind then it don’t Matter.”

Next, the age issue arises quite predictably when gaming a 2-set or 3-set, and is invoked typically not by the

target (who is “getting into me”) but by one of her obstacles, who suddenly dislikes my presence because

she, too, was getting into me but now perceives that I am focused on her girlfriend such that (1) she loses the

prize, me, at the same time she is threatened with (2) losing her girlfriend, the target, to me and with it (3) the

good vibe she has been enjoying with her girlfriend. A 2-set is much more problematic than a 3-set or larger

because the loser-obstacle will be left lonely after the target seeks isolation with me.

I know that it will be the obstacle that will shit test me on age, and so I can expect the attack from her. Han-

dle the obstacle and the interaction with your target will continue.

Statistical Norms

I acknowledge that not all girls in their twenties will respond to a man nearly 60 years old, but enough will

that it makes virtually no difference to my perceived outcome. If a third will never consider “dating” a

man my age, then a third will after a period of babysitting adjustment as they grow into the thought, and a

third will ignore the age thing altogether and go for it if their emotions tell them to. If you’re a 60 year old man

(or even much older) and you have some adequate gaming skills, you will never have to sleep alone, or in the

alternative, never be without one or multiple girlfriends.

1 Attraction is a subject which could easily divert this memo by several hundred pages as it is a major topic worthy of major—but sepa-rate—study. How do you act, what do you say to get and keep her “into” you, after you have found her? If you already have AttractionTheory down cold, congratulations; if not, and if this subject is a mystery to you, you’ll have to dedicate major study to learning it before you continue. This memo, then, is not about how you gain attraction but a series of assurances that if your previouslky acquired skill atgaining attraction is otherwise good, you’ll be able to pull it off quite easily with women much younger than you.


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The fact is that if a woman is in a headspace where she can’t picture you as her lover, possibly because of

age, then that is her issue and not yours. She loses out on me, the best lover she ever might have had if

only she hadn’t been so narrow, stupid, and unlucky. As an operational matter, I will open many but end

up prosecuting only those that turn into me and engage. Thus my approach and technique is entirely self-

correcting.

The best I can do is preserve my status with the younger, stupid ones by leaving them with something like,

“Pleasure for you to meet me” and politely disengaging. With luck they will either see me later as pre-selected

by other women, often physically hotter than they were, and they may later change their minds and re-open

me. This business of “keeping options open” must be automatic, bearing in mind that it may pay off months

or years later. Some women just need some time to think about it. I’m 55. I’m patient. I have the time.

Prior Method of Dealing with the Age Issue: Methods I Don’t Like

David DeAngelo, from his lofty perch of 33 years of age (!), suggested that when the girl asks for your age

your options are limited. He said this is how he handles it.

First, it is a shit test and one way of handling it is to ignore it or pretend you didn’t hear the question. Shit

tests truly do not require that you pay attention to them. I don’t like this approach because while this

technique works with neutral subject shit tests (on subjects other than age), not answering the age question

makes you look as though you’re ashamed of being older. You lose.

Second, when she demands, “How old are you anyway?” you can fire back a dominant (and as they say, not

domineering) counter-question, “How much do you weigh?” While this is funny it tends to kill the good vibe

you were working on, plus it also sounds like you’re hiding something. Worse, if she answers, “126 lbs!” then

you

have to be ready to fire back your actual age, “64 years old!” with equal or greater enthusiasm. Risky, and

in the best of circumstances a little too harsh. It does offer the advantage of making her jump through yourhoop before you jump through hers.

Third, others have suggested that if you look good you can lie, where the most common lied about age is

39. Yeah, right. As if she’d believe that. Plus that would make me seem as though I had something to hide,

and that I am ashamed of my age as being somehow disqualifying. So while I have lied about my age on the

older side I have never lied on the young side, and never will. Weak.

Fourth, DeAngelo says he will look the girl straight in the eye and calmly answer, “Old enough … to know …

not to answer … THAT kind of question!” Of course, in this delivery your vocal tonality is key. If the girl re-

states the question you have set up an argument which can do nothing but kill the vibe and make you lookweak. This has all the weaknesses of the other answers above, which means it is not an effective answer for

managing your game.

Fifth, it is always good policy before you answer any of her questions to consider whether she is shit testing

you with “interview-type” questions, or what Mystery called, “Questions o’ Death.” If these questions come


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fairly early in your interaction, before she has started what feels like the “melting into me” phase of comfort

building (or into rapport, where the real game takes place), then the questions are certainly of the “qualifying

frame” type which you cannot allow to get started. So to prevent the feeling from taking root that she is

the interviewer and you are the interviewee, nip it in the bud by making her jump through one of your hoops

before you jump through hers.

Her: “How old are you, anyway?”

Me: “Guess. If you’re close, maybe I’ll tell you.”

Her : “37” [obviously guessing low]

Me: “Wow! That’s SO amazing! — NO.” [humor]

With this routine, you can either game off the answer or tell her your age, your choice. But even this was

suboptimal as it did not deal with the shit test side of it, to demonstrate a natural alpha dominance

over the person who puts that shit test to you. Of all the conventional methods of dealing with the shit tested

age issue, this started out as the best.

Sixth is the direct approach my buddy suggests, which is to announce, “I’m FIFTY- SIX. Yeah, yeah, I know I

look younger than that and I LOVE THAT ABOUT MYSELF.” The key is to be over-the-top self-confident, and

he says it reduces the shit-test to a footnote.

Pace of Rapport

“The game is played in rapport.” If you are an older guy you should plan on hovering longer in rapport. There

is a tricky balance to explain because on the one hand you don’t want too move too quickly that a “possible”

gets scared away (and reports to her friends that “that older guy tried something creepy on me”), but you

need to keep the sense of escalation going so that she doesn’t get bored or lose interest in you. Somewomen are easy this way; others, their “comfort” and “too fast” curves never cross and there is no solution

set possible, in which case you politely excuse yourself to prosecute other contacts, use her as a pawn, or

LJBF her to gain access to her friends, or for future use as pivot.

I discovered that in successful game I was occasionally noting that rapport was going flat, and so would go

back into Mystery’s A2 and DHV a little more. This is a consequence of women being generally attracted but

occasionally taking notice of age, and then compensating for that.

(If anyone sorts this out theoretically, or can offer some practical experience in this rapport

building phase, please let know so I can add it to this memo.)

BlueRibbon’s Age Routine: What You Came To Learn

Assume you have gamed a 2-set (FF) and things have been going pretty good. Both girls are laughing and

touching you and having a good time, and there’s a good vibe going with both of them. You have decided


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to focus on one, and get her to self-extract with you, so it is time to let this 2-set know or figure out who

the winner is and who the loser is. This is a tough time, and uncomfortable for all concerned, because the

girl who loses is not only losing you, the cool guy, but she is losing her girl friend and the cool vibe they had

going. The loser girl knows she will have to walk home alone, and will experience a humiliating deep funk.

While there are exceptions to this rule, most obstacle-loser girls do not like to be the loser.

I know that shortly after focusing on one girl, the target—which I try to do very subtly, but there is no subtlety

in love—the obstacle is going to try to break us up by shit testing me, so that I will go away and she can

resume her vibe with the target girl. The best way to attack me without being obvious is to ask me my age. I

know this, and she knows this, so the only question is, Who gets to trigger the question?

Since I like to be in control of the interaction (and at this juncture I start thinking of it as being in control of the

combat), I want to be the one that controls exactly when she pops the age issue shit test. Properly done, she

will know, falsely but with very high confidence, that she thought of the shit test all by herself, with no input

from me at all,

and that it is all 100% her idea. All by herself she thinks up and executes this oh-so- clever attack. In reality,

am pulling the trigger.2

To pull the trigger and get the obstacle to act, two things must occur. First, you must have switched your

focus to the target so that the target knows you find her sexy and that you see her as a potential sex partner.

Specifically, I have made my Juggler SOI [Statement of Intent] to the target. (I am also thinking at this point,

as part of my mind-set, “so long as you play your cards right.”) This requires the obstacle to note that she

is not the target or potential sex partner, and thus to feel a range of emotions centered first on alarm, then

disappointment, then anger, and then the worry of an impending humiliation and isolation that she desperately

wants to avoid.

Good. It was inevitable. And since it was inevitable we must accept this fact and deal with it, since we now

have locked in the coming age shit test. At this point we don’t know exactly when, and the obstacle may nothave even thought of the disruptive shit test she will use, so we must seize control and make the age shit test

happen. In this way we deal with the obstacle’s shit test and the age issue in one fell swoop.

We trigger the age issue shit test by clearly mentioning something that is so outrageously historical, old, and

before their respective births that neither can ignore the fact you said it. It can be true or made up; it can be

reasonable or ridiculously long ago. So long as it was before their births they will not listen to the actual fact

but be occupied—even overwhelmed—with the idea of you being older than their grandfathers!

2 If this principle of “I pull the trigger on her assault” sounds like martial arts, it is. In the successful stand-up ght, your adversaryshould feel as though he has decided what technique to throw when in fact I have manipulated his weight, foot position, and theapparent targets available on me so that that thought is the only one that can occur to him. As in the seduction or social arts, thisfurther ensures that that technique he then throws, but which I have designed for him, will completely fail him. And the fact it feelsas though I have been pulling his strings during a dangerous and stressful event (for him, anyway) gives me a certain intellectual

satisfaction that is hard to describe.


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Examples:

“But you see that was when I was a child, before electricity was invented.”

“That reminds me of when I served with General Washington during the American Revolutionary

War … a cold and difficult time.”

“You have it easy! When I went to college there were no cars. There were trains, sure, but they

were big smoky, cumbersome affairs. So I much prefer the silent gliding along in traffic of the

Mercedes Benz to that rude clattering from my youth.”

“That’s not true: I remember exactly where I was, how I felt, when I heard that President Kennedy

[or Garfield, or even Lincoln] had been shot!”

All of these remarks are clearly gross exaggerations! I was born in 1950 and the world already had

computers, atomic bombs, jet aircraft, color movies, telephones, and sex toys. In retrospect you can bust on

them for their gullibility, but for now have faith that if you set up the obstacle correctly, your age issue shit test

is only milliseconds away:

Her : [Blurting out] “How old are you, anyway?”

But now you are ready for her!

You must respond without delay, but in a voice that is at least 20% slower than the girls’ voices, and with

great pride and volume in your voice. You must swell up your chest in an exaggerated “power” posture and

proudly announce:

You : “I’m SIXTY SEVEN years old!”

This is not true, of course. You are much younger than this. At the time I came up with this idea I was 52

years old, decided on its possible efficacy only by eliminating everything else that was known not to work,

and ended up with this. To my real age I added the impossible figure of 15 years to make it 67.

In what type of voice do you announce this? Think of a 4 year old boy who has just learned to hold up 4

fingers when asked his age, and hear his response: “I am FOUR years old!” Use that attitude, tone, and

voice.

Why do they believe you? Lots of old lamers have lied about their age by saying they were younger than they

were and in so doing condemning themselves to losing. But no one has ever said something as improbableas “I’m 67!” and so they can accept it at face value. But what you are really saying by the tone of your voice

is, “I am high value, and this is the highest value age any human could be!”

This gambit is an exercise in frame control. If you are okay with something then the girl is going to be okay

with it, no matter how freaky or counter-intuitive the issue. Women are wired this way.3 Say it proudly and

you establish the frame that being 67 is something to be massively proud of, and she cannot object without


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sounding petty, foolish, uninformed, and wrong.

The curious thing is what happens next: the girls will stare at you and do what I call “the Female Control-Alt-

Delete.” They re-boot. You see, up until this point they held two irreconcilable beliefs. First, that they were

getting into me and seeing me as an exciting, valuable, current, and possibly available sex partner. Second,

that they did not fuck guys older than their grandfathers! The way they deal with this is to do what only can

be called a mental re-boot of their operating system. (As a man, I have never felt this but have only observed

it in women. It seems to be a case where emotions versus logic confront each other, and the emotion crushes

logic’s attempted interference with feeling good and is thus overridden.)

Here’s what the Female Control-Alt-Delete, brain re-boot looks like: their stare goes blank, they blink hard

and very slowly, twice, and then after a few seconds (of what they describe as “having to think about it”) life

returns to their face, they smile, and they are happy again.

To me it seems as though the clean re-boot has left them with only the first belief, that they are into me, and

that the second obstructive belief has been banished like a bad virus.

But you’re not through, yet. The obstacle has some more managing to be done. When they come back from

their re-boots, the obstacle will now say something, again, that she thinks she thought of and which seems

really original to her. Of course, we know it is coming so just smile like the alpha male you are and wait:

Her: “Gee, you look pretty good for 67 …”

It is appropriate to lightly punish her for shit testing you, while retaining your strength, dignity, and polite

demeanor. You will set her straight by slightly frowning, disapprovingly, and saying:

You: “Excuse me but I look pretty good for ANY AGE.”

If the obstacle only nods and seems properly cowed4 it is now time to pull her back into your circle a little byadding this half-thought, which gives her something to hang onto:

You: “It’s good DNA …”

3 Frame control, where your comfort discussing something becomes her comfort, just as your discomfort signals her discomfort, too,logic aside, is useful when later discussing sexual practices with which she might not yet be familiar, like anal sex. Remember: if you’recool and comfortable and not “freaked out” by a subject, then she will also be cool and comfortable about that subject. But if you get all

freaky about something truly benign, like holding her hand, she will get freaky … and reject your move.

4 On the other hand if the obstacle is not cowed and just continues an unrelenting barrage of snotty shit tests, you may have entered into

a Banter Battle during which you can still achieve ascendancy over her by being better at the battle than she is, and therefore a coolerperson than she is. This gives you a solid second chance at recovery and carrying the day with the target. See the appendix on GenericShit Test Methodology for guidance.

This suggests a natural, physical superiority on your part which is not a bad thing to add in itself. Plus you

are letting her off the hook by saying it in an upbeat manner. Both girls will nod as though approving of your

explanation, but in reality you have just initiated a shift into sex talk because of the way girls think.


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Yes, I know that you know everything there is to know about DNA. Deoxy- ribonucleic acid. Watson-Crick

complementary pairs. The Double Helix. Adenine, guanine, cytosine, thymine. But she knows none of this,

because when it was taught in high school she wasn’t really listening but doing her nails. So she can only

pretend to understand what you meant by saying “It’s good DNA …”

Except that she is a big fan of CSI: Miami and to her DNA in every episode means only one thing: semen.

Sex. Some guy cumming on or near the body. “Samples.” She drifts off and thinks about you cumming on

her, or in her. A pleasant, warm fantasy. So while you are offering a conciliatory explanation of why you look

so good for being “67,” she is thinking about sex, semen, and getting horizontal with you.

You have reached an important juncture in the game: do you want to next her, because she is not really up to

your standards? To end the game you can let the interaction expire naturally. Or do you want to advance her

and shift the game to sex talk? 5

If you want to transition to sex talk, answer their unspoken question:

You: “So … what? Did you want a sample?”

This pokes fun at their sexual state, setting and reinforcing the frame that they want you and makes it clear

that you understand them, can read that they are feeling sexual, and that you approve of them feeling sexual

towards you. The game is now clearly on.

They should laugh with that “OMG I’m feeling so sexual” face they display, and if you like you can feign a

misunderstanding when you “suddenly” realize that they were thinking about SEX and pretend that you only

meant to offer them a hair plucked from your head (e.g., “for a locket, to hold against your heart that you can

feel my strength and safety when you need it”)!

You: “OMG! I just realized, like, you’re having impure thoughts! Ughh. Now I feel dirty, used. Like a mere sexobject for you to fantasize about. Oh, I need a shower. Or a beer. Go buy me a beer, stat!”

A friend suggests his follow-on to the “It’s good DNA …” line: “At least I’m strengthening the gene pool. And

you?” This is an expression of supreme self- confidence so it could fit in anywhere.

I can think of a dozen more ways to riff off this but the goal is to keep the discussion playful, light, humorous,

sexual, a little outrageous; and making certain they realize you approve of them chasing you.

5 The Alternative View: “Fuck her anyway, even if she’s not in MENSA.”


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Supportive Technique to Reinforce Frame if Interaction Begins to Stale Out

There are times when the interaction is going as well as can be expected, but it seems that she is becoming,

well, distracted. It might be that for her this is the first time she has been with a man whose very existence

proposes a new experience—that of age and sexual experience where she feels out of her depth, unskilled,

not up to the task, or even amateurish. How to bring her back?

You: “Look, I know you’re getting into me …”

Her:“Whaaa …?”

You: “Yeah …you’re into me, it’s obvious … Touching my arm, laughing at my jokes, doing that hair thing …

you’re into me.

Her: “Oh, yeah, right.” or “I am not … that … into you” or blah,

blah, blah.

You: “I get this all the time, so it’s alright … but I’ve got to tell you, you’re not doing that good with me right

now … so if you want to have any chance of taking me home later on? Well, you’d better start getting your

act together.

You: “So let’s make a good start on that … tell you what, go get me a beer (or order me a glass of wine) and

we’ll talk about it …

You: [Gesturing with your hand] “Come on. Let’s go. Go …”

As silly as this seems, it is funny, establishes you as the dominant party, sets the proper frame, and most

important tells the girl exactly what simple task she has to perform in order to seal the deal with you. Plus, it

is sufficiently innocuous that she can do it in front of friends without leaking to them her attraction to you.

Addendum: Re-frame Her Age as Older, in “Woman Years”

Sometimes a full-on response isn’t necessary, as when a woman pops the statement, “You’re WAAAY

too old for me, by the way,” at the last minute, or sometimes right in the middle of an interaction.

You must divine what she really means by this before responding, although your response must be immediate

Is it a shit test, where she’s nasty? If so, you can say something in the strongly re-framing category such as:

You: “It’s alright. I know you’re feeling … insecure. But as long as you stay close to me, and I approve of you,and you continue to be seen as being in my favor … you’ll feel stronger.”

You: “Whoa. I know you’re attracted to me … no, don’t try to hide it, it’s obvious … laughing at my jokes, the

sexy eye contact … it’s obvious … but blurting out a Tourette’s thing isn’t the … smoothest way to announce it.”


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If she had been in pretty good rapport with you and this sudden objection is a little surprising coming from

her, assume she is impliedly asking the question, “You won’t embarrass me in front of my friends, because

they won’t understand how cool you are, will you?” In this case, give her a discrete “knowing” smile that

transmits, “Yeah, I own you, don’t I, princess?” and consider extracting her for game continuation in a less

intrusive environment; basically, away from here.

My favorite method of dealing with this question, assuming she is testing out of her own insecurity, is to point

out that adjusting for “woman years” you are actually much younger than she! When she blurts out something

off-topic, like

Her : “You’re waaaay too old for me …”

you look calmly at her and let a few seconds of silence build before you answer,

You: “Weeelllll … that was random. Was that a Tourette’s thing? But of course, in ‘woman years’ we both

know you’re actually much older than I am …”

As an aside, young women have a “personal desirability horizon” which extends just 2 years from their current

age. That is, an 18 year old girl believes that while she now has an excellent body, in just 2 years she’ll

exhaust that limited commodity of her youth and be reduced to one of the haggard old 20 year olds she sees

hanging around the campus. If she is 20 she believes she has achieved an attractive balance of body, beauty

and personality—but in just 2 short years those qualities will have completely played themselves out and she

will be left, bereft of all that men find desirable, just as with all those 22 year old girls hanging out in the office

cafeteria. And so forth. Twenty-eight year old girls feel they can hold it together a little while longer, given

their new, aggressive, and sexual personae … but in just 2 short years they face the impending horror of that

slouching senility that represents their future 30 year old self! Thus, the “woman years” defense strikes deeper

and instantaneously more emotionally than any man could ever understand. Use it carefully.

Distraction Issue: Her So-Called Preferences, vs Attraction

“Attraction isn’t a choice” says David DeAngelo. If a girl does not feel attraction for a man then no amount

of appeal to her logical brain will make her feel that overwhelming desire to be with him. But in the opposite

case, where she does feel attraction, no logical appeal to the contrary—that he will be bad for her, that he is

from “the wrong side of the tracks” and so forth—can prevent her from acting on that attraction.

Our goal is to generate attraction by discovering and acknowledging the woman’s emotional needs, including

for sex [with you] and excitement, while not acting in a needy or creepy way.

Unfortunately, women will often interpose at first, before they have been given the opportunity to feelattraction for us, that we do not meet their “preferences” qualifications. Generally this is stated as some

variation of tall, dark and handsome. “You’re not my type.” But the cool thing is that while women sincerely

believe that their preferences are a powerful determinant they end up having virtually no influence as they

yield to the excitement of their biological attraction mechanism!


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How do you handle it? Well, treat statements of their preferences as the shit tests they are. Cute, but a little

annoying. Then keep doing attraction material until she is giggling that she’s never met a man like you before

… and all that nonsense of preferences is once again set aside in favor of her attraction for you.

Escalation: Getting Her to Kiss You

You need to escalate and kissing is on your agenda. You are still carefully calibrating the situation and taking

things at a slightly slower pace, but let us assume you calculate that she is ready and needs kissing to keep

the interaction from going stale. You’re right about this, of course. Time to kiss. So how do you go about it?

One simple technique is to start by giving her the Hug Test, which works when you starting getting Indicators

of Interest [“IOIs”] soon after meeting her and where the “playfulness factor” is moderate to high.

This Hug Test routine is a great way to begin getting physical with a woman while showing personality and

sub-communicating that you are screening for particular qualities in the women you date. It also implies

that you and her are having a flirtatious, as opposed to platonic, conversation, which can help you avoid the

“friend zone.”

“Okay. We’ve been talking for ve minutes, and I want to be sure I’m not wasting my time. Hug test.”

(She responds.) “Blah, blah, blah … blah.”

“I have to see if you can hug worth a damn, otherwise I have to stick you in the friend zone. So you better give

it your all.”

When you hug her she always gets a “B minus.” If she is annoyed with the substandard rating, tell her do to it

again; she’ll almost always give an amazing hug, for which you can give her a reluctant “A.”

It’s just a couple of sentences and seems innocuous on the surface, but like all good routines, it’s quitepowerful. It gets you touching. It gets you leading. It gets her trying to live up to your standards. It

establishes a romantic/flirtatious vibe instead of a “friend” situation. All in a couple of sentences, doing

something silly that won’t trigger any alarm bells. 6

There may be times when the Hug Test doesn’t really fit, in which case you can start with various Hands

Tests. Her hand will never lie about her interest in you and there are at least two ways to get there. First,

you want to be touching her arm right from the beginning. It should go without saying that you’re not pawing

at her and it should appear natural. If you do it to everyone, women you’re interested in as well as not, and

frequently men as well, then you have an idea of the natural touch.

6 See “Mystery Method - The Routines Book (2007).pdf” and “Love Systems – Magic Bullets.pdf” for hundreds of more great routines to

use as icebreakers and to accelerate your game.

The goal is to continually escalate the touch until your hand reaches down and touches her open hand. What


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kind of response did you get? If she jerks away, she is simply not ready yet. Move back up the arm, do some

more natural touching, and try again in :05 minutes. If you’re getting some attraction signals, some IOIs from

her, then she’ll probably be aware of her earlier reaction and be looking forward to a warmer one the next

time.

The best reaction is where she lightly squeezes your hand, or either interlocks her fingers with yours or allows

you to do this momentarily. But only momentarily! Do not give her enough time for her defenses to creep in,

and then you must separate your hands after a short while so that she feels good about the physical contact

but is left wanting more. You can repeat the hands test in a few seconds.

If she allows your hands to touch and stay there but is otherwise neutral, you have some more work in

attraction to do. As before, attract then wash, rinse, repeat until you get the response you’re looking for.

One advantage of the hands test is that unlike kissing, she can lightly contact and then hold your hand

concealed from the view of her friends, whom she is not sure will judge you as highly as she feels for you at

that moment. Simply pull her hand behind you, then hold it for a moment. One method for getting there is to

“High Five” her lightly at shoulder height, then at the moment of contact take her hand and while holding it,

pull it down so your arm is around her and your hands are holding each other in the small of her back, out of

sight of her friends and a “secret” the two of you share for the moment.

Remember: the hands never lie. If she is getting into you, she will want to explore hand touching and her

eagerness signals that you are ready to move on.

Second, there is Mystery’s “subtext” method of hands testing which works great but requires a little more

speaking skill, stage presence, and self-control. Since these are all qualities an older guy should be DHVing

to the target woman, this should not be considered a negative.

When talking about some subject, since you’ll be carrying the wood 90% in this conversation, simply hold

your hands out in front of you palms up. Make sure that your words and this action are entirely unrelated: itshould look as though your hands appeared in front of you all by themselves.

This is an implicit invitation to the girl to do something, which is to place her hands in yours palm down, or

palm-to-palm. If she does, then that is a strong IOI. Squeeze her hands lightly for a second, then lightly

“throw them down” as though dropping them. This gets you the best of both words: she has the experience

of touch, and she is left wanting more.

If she holds her hands out in front of her, not touching yours but palm up, mirroring your posture—she is not

yet into you at all but being polite. Amp it up or eject. If she interrupts you and asks, “What are you doing

with your hands?!” be prepared to treat it as a mildly rude interruption, and say, “What? Oh this? That’s allsubtext. Now—I was saying …” and finish your conversational distraction thread. She may still reach out and

take your hands, and in so doing, mission accomplished.

So you’re successful at your hands test? Good. Press on with the escalation to get her to kiss you.

One major difference between the young man and the older man at this juncture is that the older man can


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anticipate one response that younger men rarely get. If using Mystery’s kiss routine, which is to ask her, “Oh.

Did you want to kiss me?”, younger men can expect one of three answers.

One, she can say “Yes” in which case you just lean in and kiss her. Go slowly, and make the feeling one

where she is a deliberate part of the kiss, a cooperative kiss, but do not delay. Go for it.

Two, she can say anything to indicate that she’s not sure but if the answer isn’t “no” you say, “Let’s find out”

and lean in and kiss her anyway.

Three, she might say “no,” in which case you say, “I didn’t say you could. You just looked as if you wanted to

be kissed.” Then you keep gaming for another :05 minutes, repeat the question, and this time she will give

you one of the first two answers.

Older men can also get a fourth response which is, “Not here.” This is good and essentially a “yes,” but she

is telling you that she is uncomfortable kissing you in front of her friends.

Calibrate. You can say, “I understand,” and let the moment pass because she has given you a calculated

answer that is a yes but says she wants discretion. The next obvious idea is to take her hand and say, “Come

with me,” and lead her into a more private area and kiss her there. It is not weak to do the first and most often

that is the probability move.

Neil Strauss as Style created the famous Evolution Phase Shift, as he wrote in this article inserted below:

Evolution Phase Shiftby Style

1. I tell her that she smells good and ask what she is wearing. Then I lean in, brush her hair

aside, and sniff her slowly, moving up from the shoulder to the ear. “Mmmm, that smells good.

People don’t pay enough attention to smell. But you’ll notice how animals, before they mate, willalways smell each other. Evolution has hard-wired us to respond to certain things. You are wired

to respond when someone smells you.”

2. “It’s like when someone pulls the back of your hair. You’ll notice how lions, when they mate,

always bite and tug at the end of each other’s mane, right here.” (Since I’m shaved bald, I’ll add

here, “This is what I miss the most about not having hair”; if you have hair, say, “This is one of my

favorite things”.) Then I run my hand up the back of her neck and grab a fistful of hair at the roots

and pull it, downwards. She says “mmmm...” And I say “see.”

3. Then I talk about how “no one knows this, but the most sensitive places on the body areplaces that are usually hidden from contact with the air, like the back of the elbow (touching it)

and knee (touching it). Any place where your body bends, twists, or folds, there are millions of

sensitive little nerve endings that release endorphins. Then I take her arm, bend it a little, and

erotically bite the area on the opposite side of the elbow (that crease where it bends). She usually

gets the chills, and I have her ratify how good it feels.


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[NOTE FOR THE LESS EXPERIENCED: If you don’t know how to erotically bite a girl, learn before

you do this. You want to take a big chunk of skin—not a little pinch!—and slowly and firmly slide

your teeth together until they meet and release the skin. You may want to practice on your own

elbow first …]

4. After, I say, “But do you know what the best thing in the world is? ... A bite ... right ... here.”

And I point to the side of my neck. (Every now and then, I’ll add, that “this has to do with the

fact that it is where the jugular vein is most exposed, and since most sexual fantasies have to

do with submission and vulnerability, it sends all the fantasy signals flying.”) Then I’ll expose my

neck and say, “Bite me right here” as if I EXPECT her to do it. Fifty percent of the time she will. If

she doesn’t, I just turn away calmly (punish), wait a few seconds, and then turn back and repeat,

“Bite me right here.” Usually here she will.

5. Half the time, her bite is lame. If so, I correct her and say, “That’s not how you bite. Come

here.” Then I give her a good bite on the neck and instruct her to “try again.” This time, she

ALWAYS does a great job.

6. Now you look her in the eye, smile mischievously/approvingly, and say, very slowly, “not

bad.” Then glance down at her mouth, back up at her eyes (i.e., “triangular gazing”), and ... yes

... finally ... you ... may ... if you want ... and if she’s ready ... um ... kiss!

Style

Kiss Trap: A False End Game

There is a trap with kissing and that is for many women kissing is their entire end game. If they can get the

stimulation from the kissing, especially if it is in front of their friends and lends them your status as though she

has “conquered” you, then she may have had enough. In this case she may recuse herself with some excuse

about using the ladies room, and when she returns she may flip a remark at you about how nice it was tomeet you and she’s going back with her friends and maybe she’ll she you here later on. She’s blowing you off.

The correction is to limit the kiss. First you kiss her for a second or two, then push her away and tell her that

she’s bad, then pull her in and kiss her again, then push her away again and tell her she’s still bad, smile,

and say, “This is moving pretty fast. Let’s get back to your friends and you can get back to work on making

me feel comfortable again.” Or after a second or two, say, “That’s all you get.” Funny, and a creative sexual

tension builder.

If you get a sassy “No” that you believe is really a playful “yes,” but one challenging you to

demonstrate a caveman skill and go for it to express dominance, go in and kiss her for 1 second beforepulling back and looking pretend-shocked, and say, “You’re right.” This is where you are likely to get a punch

in the arm—a good thing—if you calibrated the situation right.

This may seem counter-intuitive, but if you interrupt the kiss after a few seconds you prevent it from becoming

the culminating experience of your interaction. Furthermore, you teach her that you are capable of restraint


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and it builds her sense of security around you ... and by putting things off slightly you build more sexual

tension.

The seduction has more elements to complete which are beyond the scope of this

memo, but once you’re this far the fact that you are older is essentially irrelevant.

First Sex: “Survive the Mission”

I have a serious bias about sex partners and that is that first sex is always bad sex, and that the best sex only

comes from cultivating a longer term sexual relationship with someone whose character and interests match

your own.7 Call it love, if you like. First sex is any sex you have before the sexual relationship starts; and I

believe the sexual relationship starts generally on the third or fourth sexual seduction. Until that time,

you’ll notice that you have to repeat the seduction-to-sex ritual in its entirety, if not at quite the same pace or

intensity.

Bad sex? Yes, absolutely. First sex is always awkward if for nothing else than the “elbows problem.” You

don’t know how each other moves, their sense of natural grace, and more than once I have taken a small

woman’s elbows right to the chops. One gave me a serious black eye—accidentally of course, and she was

horrified at what she had done, but my friends found it amusing that a woman with no martial arts experience,

half my size, could “get past my defenses” and clock me good. All she had wanted was to flip herself over so

I could fuck her from behind and that sailing elbow found my face because we weren’t yet familiar with each

other.

First sex has other awkward moments, of course. She has to watch her elbows and yours but she wonders

whether she is pretty enough, and what you want her to do? What can she ask for? First sex doesn’t give

her much guidance or comfort, and her overall experience (nominally described as her orgasm or orgasms) is

suboptimal. On a ten scale, figure that in first sex she can hit a two. Maybe. (Yeah, it’s that bad.)

Your goal in first sex is simply to “survive the mission.” Plan the mission, execute the mission, survive the

mission—and you can sort out the details later. Of course you will inadvertently have great fun but the

pleasure will be in making a new sexual friend and not in the intensity, frequency, duration, and variety of the

sex you have during the first few sessions.

This is a mindset, that you can properly plan the longer term sexual relationship, for your benefit and hers.

7 My friend, Jeff, whose skill as a natural is undisputed, strongly buy ever-so-politely disagrees with this premise. In his world the bestsex is passionate and with someone just recently met. Hard to disagree with this guy, he’s so good.

Incidentally, I had a girl shit test me after first sex by saying, “Well, that was a let down!” I interpreted this as

an expression of her fear, that she thought she hadn’t been good enough for me and that I would therefore


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“dump her” and not call again. I responded by taking her to dinner (at a modest place for food, not for

celebration) where I made certain the discussion topic was narrowly focused on the following “Principles

to Teach the Girls, and To Live By” paragraph, infra; and it worked to perfection, and she became a happy,

willing, love struck porn star sex slave who said every time we met, “I thank God every day that He brought

you to me—I don’t know where I’d be or what I’d feel without you.”

This is a mindset, that you can properly plan the longer term sexual relationship, for your benefit and hers.

Incidentally, I had a girl shit test me after first sex by saying, “Well, that was a let down!” I interpreted this as

an expression of her fear, that she thought she hadn’t been good enough for me and that I would therefore

“dump her” and not call again. I responded by taking her to dinner (at a modest place for food, not for

celebration) where I made certain the discussion topic was narrowly focused on the following “Principles

to Teach the Girls, and To Live By” paragraph, infra; and it worked to perfection, and she became a happy,

willing, love struck porn star sex slave who said every time we met, “I thank God every day that He brought

you to me—I don’t know where I’d be or what I’d feel without you.”

Follow-on Sex: “Make it Worth Her While”

Older men have tremendous biological advantages over younger guys. Imagine the goal is a 25 year old

bikini model and you are a 65 year old guy, 5’6” tall and 220 lbs, balding or bald, who gets some exercise but

hasn’t officially hit the gym for 20 years. You’re cool, you have worked on developing your game, and

you follow good grooming habits. Compare this to a 28 year old guy, basically gorgeous build at 6’2” tall

and 180 lbs of solid muscle he works on every day at the gym. Got that in mind? Good. You as the older guy

can kick the shit out of the younger competition by rocking this girl’s world in a way the “kid” cannot.

First, embrace the principles at the bottom of this memo. This isn’t about high school sex; it’s about

managing the relationship to rock her world, and teach her to rock yours. Second, if you haven’t heard of the

One Hour Orgasm, find the material from the San Francisco group called “The Welcomed Consensus” and

make it part of your own.

Third, find the material from David Shade (“Give Women Wild Screaming Orgasms.pdf”) and Steve Picuss

(aka Hypnotica, who teaches the use of hypnosis to send, and keep, women over that wild, crazy sexual

edge) and do the same thing with that material.

The Rôle of Alcohol in the Sexual Relationship

Are you there to drink, or are you there to successfully pick up a beautiful, intelligent, talented woman to a

successful sexual first close, and thence to a successful, high intensity longer term relationship?

Alcohol reduces the one advantage you have, which is your cool demeanor and intellect. Why would you

give up even a small percentage of your attractiveness for the privilege of drinking? If the girl asks what you

are drinking simply state “I don’t drink” with no apology or weakness, setting the frame that your response

is the coolest, strongest possible. Sometimes it is just as easy to say “club soda with lime” and let the issue

drop.


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If you need alcohol to calm your nerves, or give you courage, or make you relaxed enough to approach and

game women, you are making a huge mistake. The remedy is not to drink but to work on your game and then

stay alcohol-free during the interaction.

There are times when the interaction is going well and refusing a drink could be seen as socially inept,

such as a glass of wine over lunch with a girl whose progress has been regular and the outcome seems

comfortably secure. Sure, go ahead and drink a glass, but be aware of the principle and maintain 100%

control over your game and the outcome by not letting the alcohol go to your head.

What about her? Isn’t it better if she is drinking, so she loses her inhibitions and comes to you more easily, or

faster?

No, not in my opinion. Alcohol lends nothing to the equation I find remotely helpful. She has to stay 100%

conscious in order to appreciate what I have to offer, which is the experience of being with me. Worse, if she

does sleep with you—and the next day has buyer’s remorse and self-justifies her sleeping with you as you

having taken advantage of her—the fact she was seen as drunk or even just “happy” could fuel witnesses’

recollections that perhaps you did take advantage of her. If alcohol was involved and you brought a drink to

her, it even raises the spectre of you having drugged her with a “roofie.”

This is more than a hypothetical. An acquaintance picked up a girl at a night spot and the evening went well,

so well in fact that she took him home and had sex with him. He didn’t think much of it as she seemed to be a

party girl, and there wasn’t much prospect of a long term relationship in that tryst, so he forgot about it.

Forgot about it, that is, until the police knocked at his door, asked and confirmed his identity, then arrested

him for the rape she had sworn had taken place. Sure she was a nut case, but that wasn’t apparent to the

guy at the time. (Think Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.) The witnesses his attorney found all corroborated his

story and the case was dismissed but not before he lost 20 lbs, 6 months of his life to depression, and

$10,000 in attorney’s fees. In my opinion, alcohol can be very bad. Avoid it whengaming. Stay focused: don’t drink.

To all my friends, good luck and good hunting!


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Appendix A – Old Men With Young Women: An Ethics Issue?

In teaching friends to “connect” with younger, beautiful women I encountered the attitudes that there is

something just not right about a 50 year old man picking up and enjoying the company of a much younger

woman. They accepted that the women entered these relationships willingly but usually disparaged the girls’

motives. “Those young women are with him for his money” or travel or car, or some other variation which

shifts the focus to a thing rather than the cool man behind it. Their objections were fragile and quickly broke

down under any sort of analysis (i.e., you can and should date the woman without bringing money into the

issue by doing very cool, but not excessively expensive things), but were initially powerful, emotional barriers

to considering the issue. I believe they were propagandized into accepting less than what they deserved, and

I aim to correct that.

As to objections we start with the cultural. In American and other Western societies (except Italy

and Brazil, it would seem), the church, state, and Oprah Winfrey’s viewership have persuaded us that it

is a man’s duty to tie himself to one woman of approximately his own age. If this occurs by virtue of a long

and successful marriage then I am all in favor of it: two 80-year olds, still active and “into” each other, have to

be a beautiful thing.

The rub occurs with a single man, 50-60 years old. Our society abhors the thought that he might find comfort

and enjoyment in the arms [or bed] of a 20 year old girl because this essentially relegates women his own

age to ancillary roles. When older women, 50 years and up, are forced to compete with 23 year old HB10+s,

it is clear these older women will rarely if ever prevail and their lifelong strategies are thereby constrained.

Society cannot tolerate this age-based unfairness! So it defines the relationship of older men, younger

women as “immature” or “unethical.” (It is also terrifying to women that the remaining best strategy, as I

hinted above, is to take care of their first husband and not divorce him; make their first one count and they

have exploited their one advantage over the younger women: the “Home Court Advantage.”)

When a single 50-60 year old man becomes known, he is often “set up” on dates. Do you know who he is

set up with? Most often fat, old women of his own age and with little or no resources or professional skills tobring to the relationship. Her sole qualification is that “they look good together” to outsiders, and that “they’ll

each have someone to grow old with.” Never mind that she is sexually unsatisfying to him or reduces his

quality of life. And never mind that several or perhaps even most of the women that he is set up with claim to

be his age but in actuality are 10 years older. (Isn’t that a pretty picture!) It is as though our society demands

that every healthy, successful man has an obligation to identify one parasitic female—that is, she brings little

to the equation except taking herself off the rolls of old, single women—and agree to split his assets and time

with her whether she is deserving or not.

The amazing thing is that American men are so propagandized, starting in our childhood by our mothers and

continuing on with unrelenting fury throughout our entire lives, that they embrace this “duty” as an ethical oneHow many men do you know that divorced, met a woman approximately their own age (through friends)

shortly thereafter, and then seemed hurriedly “rushed to the altar” for a replacement marriage?

My belief is that all men should identify what they want in life and then go after it. If women your same age

appeal to you, then do it! But if younger women appeal to you, then apologize to no one for who you are or

what you want in life and let your chase begin!


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This belief is expressed in another way when women (and Hollywood movie writers) say that all men should

“date within their league”—whatever THAT means. But when we hear the objection that “that woman is out

of your league,” we understand that society is telling us “you do not fit our societal model of who should

be dating whom,” because if this rend in the universe is allowed then there will be no men left for the old,

parasitic females who comprise Oprah Winfrey’s viewership. My view is: ALL WOMEN ARE IN YOUR

LEAGUE. More important, there is NO WOMAN that is “out of your league.”

Riding on the coattails of that cultural assumption is the belief by many older men that young women will have

no interest in them. Nonsense! The game is different but the joy open for you to discover is that younger

women are dying to find a cool older guy. You know things the young guys don’t. And it isn’t about lavishing

money or travel or high living on them; it’s about having a better emotional and sexual life for their time with

you.

I recall having dinner with workmates, where a pretty 21 year old girl was desperately trying to gain the

attention of a 55 year old guy. She tried everything, even down to unbuttoning the top two buttons of her top,

then leaning forward (so he could examine her tits) while twisting and contorting her body so as to appear

to be checking the door “for a friend” when her real purpose was to give him permission to look “while she

was conspicuously looking away.” He still didn’t take the bait and look … and finally she left, frustrated and

crestfallen, for the ladies room.

I asked my buddy, “Are you interested in her?” and he answered, “No, she’s too young for me.”

If by that he had meant, “She is so young that she does not appeal to me” then I would have agreed. It is his

right to determine what appeals to him and what I think or desire is of no matter. He should never be out to

conform to my expectations, as a high school boy might subject himself to peer pressure. A four hundred

pound Pacific Islander girl? If she’s okay by him then I approve, too, not that my approval matters.

But what he meant was, “I believe that she thinks that I am too old for her, as she

has already commented that her father is nearly 10 years younger than I am.” When I

heard that I was dispirited. He had raised the barrier “She’s out of my league.” Nothing I could say in

the time allowed could convince him otherwise. She went home, upset and lonely to her bed and he went

home, ignorant and deprived of her wonderful company because of his having unwittingly embraced that

detestable cultural rule that all men should date within their own league. (Whatever that means.)

Ignore what others say. If young women appeal to you, and if you’re willing to put in the time and effort to

gain the skill of dating and enjoying them, then JUST DO IT. The world will be a better place for it, and your

life will improve as well.

Note: my reference herein to “20 year old women” and the like is not meant to impose a preference on my

male readers, but to set a lower boundary that the reader should feel free to raise in his own mind as he

reviews this memo. Substitute “30 year old” or “40 year old” as the expression if that makes this memo more

understandable to you, but be aware that young, beautiful women have no problem developing an interest in

men as old as their grandfathers, so long as that man practices “good game.”


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And by the way, even 20 year old women are not the lower limit since I have had interested 18 year old women

approach, open, and game me. The simple rule is that if the girl is age-legal, you can be 78 years old with

a healthy, strong game, and get her attracted and sexually pursuing you … and To Hell with the opinions of

those lesser mortals in Life’s bleachers!

Age appropriateness has even made its way into Wikipedia. Note the pseudo- scientific tone of these experts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships

A suggestion: read the article then celebrate by picking up, entrancing, and fucking the brains out of a

gorgeous, intelligent, sensitive, sweet 22 year old woman—and make her your girlfriend, so long as she

promises to be a good girl for you.


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Appendix B – A Simple NLP “Television Pattern”: Overcoming Cultural Resistance

A full discussion of Neuro Linguistic Programming [aka “NLP”] is beyond the scope of this little memo, but

there are occasions where a particular “pattern” (using NLP-speak) will help ease a girl into thinking that you

are a possible. It doesn’t create attraction, but once attraction is to be had then this “television” pattern—

recalled here as well as I can, although the original Ross Jeffries’s version is likely superior—can assist her

over the hump by providing an emotional logic for her to see herself with Exciting You, without interfering with

her relationship with her current boyfriend.

This pattern is an excellent lead-in to discussing the notion that to women, an infidelity with some men

“doesn’t count.” That is, many women report that they have been 100% faithful to their boyfriends or

husbands even when it is clear that they have had sex with another man, because in the woman’s mind “he

didn’t count.” If she takes to the discussion—and in my experience, women usually do—then this sets you

up as the next guy that “doesn’t count” so she can safely have sex with you without jeopardizing her main

relationship.

Specifically, in telling the television story below you imply that there is more than one channel on the

television, and that sometimes a well-lived life should try other channels to see what’s there.

You: “Do you have a television? Do you ever watch television?”

Her: [Usually she says “yeah, sure” and you continue; but if she says no you can riff it over to radio or different

iPod MP3s. Or you can neg her with a joke comeback and ask querilessly, “Do you have electricity?”] Blah,

blah, blah.

You: “So when you go home, you probably have a favorite television show. You walk in and turn it on, and

you don’t so much watch as you rejoin your family, there on the screen. You know all of them, intimately, just

as they know you. They’re your friends, and you’ll probably never give them up.”

You: “But some days … you walk in … and you’re just in the mood for something new, something a little …

different. It’s not that you’re mad at your old friends … it’s just that you’ve SEEN that show before. It’s a little

too familiar. You’re not going to feel that way forever, but for today you desire a little change.”

You: “So you pick up the channel changer and you begin to surf around. Surf around, that is, until you

come across a station that’s a little more exciting, that ts your mood for today. The exciting, new ROGUE

station that maybe even your friend wouldn’t approve of. But it appeals to you today, and you want to do

it.”

[Note: by this point she definitely knows you’re not talking in the abstract about television, but the wordsstrongly convey the fantasy of having sex with you. So know that, and go with that. By this point you’re not

talking about the television any more.]

You: “So you have already felt it, haven’t you? That I’m that ROGUE television station, that rogue lover that

will take you places your regular boyfriend would never take you, and that you could never ask him to take


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you, because he might think you were a pervert and reject you.”

You: “Tomorrow you’ll return to your steady, reliable, regular boyfriend and he’ll be there, as always.“

You: “So it’s going to happen, you and me. So relax and enjoy being with me, so we can clear the air of all

this silly sexual tension you keep creating, and then we can get back to just hanging out, and feeling good.”


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Appendix C - Stock Memorization Items for the “Banter Battle”

Sometimes a shit test really isn’t a shit test so much as “challenge flirting” and is said in a playful, or at least

mock serious voice. In this case you have entered into the “Banter Battle” which is a flirty, funny series

of exchanges to establish who is dominant, cooler and more unflappable, and thus of higher value. The

loser of the banter battle may still remain a cool and desirable person but it is better to prepare with stock

languaging so you never come across as a tool when challenged.

Here are just some stock examples to give you the general idea.

When she teases you with a mock insult, say “My mom’s told me worse.” This isn’t said in a self-deprecating

way but with the attitude of, “Hey little girl, there is no way that you can hurt my feelings because I’m that

strong.”

“Are you at least rich?” Suggesting that if she’s going to be a pain in the ass, that she should have at least

this redeeming value to you.

“You look familiar. Have we had sex?”

Whenever she touches or moves any of your stuff, “You’re fucking up my Fung Shui!”

If you’re into Direct Game and she says, “You just want to fuck me,” answer laughingly (but otherwise serious

as it is not a joke), “Girl, I will do you in every hole you’ve got!” Another answer in the same vein is, “Girl, you

couldn’t handle me. I’d fuck you twelve different ways—six of which you wouldn’t even like!” These answers

fit better when you sense her challenge had a negative edge to it, as a challenging shit test.

“Did you come over here just to irt with me?”

“Stop undressing me with your eyes!”

“Don’t get your hopes up, I’m not easy.” “Stop trying to impress me.”

“Are you always like this, or just with guys you’re attracted to?” “If I wasn’t gay you’d be SO my type.”

“You better be getting back to your friends before they realize you’re irting with me, but before you go …” —

a false time constraint you impose upon her when she came over to you or is separated from her group, just

before you run another routine or tell her a story.

“You know, you’re a pretty cool [good] [nice] girl, despite what everyone says about you.”

“You’re pretty cute … for a tall [or short] girl.” “Clearly, your boyfriend isn’t spanking you enough.”

“You think you can take me? I doubt it. I will tickle you until you pee your pants.”

“OMG!8 ‘Saucer of milk, table two!’,” if she’s acting really bitchy [catty].


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“You’re looking at me the way a fat kid looks at a cheeseburger.” “This is a really great spot for me: I’m really

well lit.”

“You’re getting me all emotional. I promised my friends I wouldn’t go home with anyone tonight.”

“Something smells great in here. Oh wait, that’s me.”

“You guys are trouble.” or “You guys are bad girls. I’ll have to watch out for you.”

“You’re cool. You can help me pick up chicks.”

“Why are girls always so logical? Why can’t they just feel and be in the moment… like guys?

“What kind of girls do you like?” Stated calmly and directly, this seeks to elicit a bisexual response in addition

to being cocky-funny.

“Are you drunk or are you usually like this? … Is she always like this?” “Did you forget to take your

medication today?

“We’d never get along, we’re too similar. You’d never take my shit and I wouldn’t take yours. You know, we’d

always ght. And I would always win.” “You’re like my little sister. Lovable, but annoying.”

“You’re bad. You’re making me think impure thoughts.”

“Okay, you’re my new girlfriend. Oh wait! Can you cook?” “You’re such a dork.”

“You’re a Republican, aren’t you?”

“You’re a shy girl aren’t you? You guys gotta get her out more.” “You usually hang out at the library, don’tyou?”

“You’re just so cute! I’m going to take you home in my pocket and ask my roommates if I can keep you! Wait a

minute … are you housebroken?”

“Dork! I’m going to get you one of those little hats with a propeller on it.”

When she drops or spills something, look a little exasperated and say,

“See? This is why we can’t have nice things” or

“That’s okay. You don’t have to be nervous” or

8 Obviously, OMG is an abbreviation for the exclamation, “OH MY GOD!”

Offer to get her a sippy cup, or ask the bartender if he has a sippy cup for her, and then say, “Easy, tiger!”


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“Now you’re just talking while you’re thinking of something to say.”

“If I wasn’t gay we would have such beautiful children. Seriously, imagine how cute our children would be,”

and you can continue if you like, “They’d have my good looks … and … well, all my personality, too.”

Repeatedly ask her name, then nickname her “Muffin.” Other mildly deprecating names are Missy, Princess,

and Doris.

If she does something stupid say, “It’s a good thing you’re pretty.” Works best on 7’s and 8’s that aren’t that

pretty, though.

Challenge them to thumb-wars, and if you beat them say, “OMG you SUCK at this… but you can cook, right?”

“You have a strange resemblance to a friend of mine ... if you shaved your head you would look EXACTLY like

my friend Paul ...”

“You have a very unique dress sense ... I like that about you ... I can tell you’re probably high maintenance.”

“My girl of my dreams must love kids, in fact I plan of having 14 of them (I pat her belly) yep ... a WHOLE

soccer team and we’ll travel the world playing other countries, France, Germany ... I’ll coach them and you

can be the manager... All the boys will be named Alex and all the girls will be named Alexandria” (but choose

male and female takeoffs of your own name).

The interaction has gone well but she hasn’t given you her name and it is time for you to do a Takeaway, so

here is a playful way of giving her a name. “You remind me of a girl I used to travel around Australia with.

She was always doing these weird awkward things [making a reference to some awkwardness the target

displayed] but she was cool and adventurous so I really liked her. Her name was Elizabeth but we all called

her Bertha—so I’m just going to call you BERTHA.”

The “Mean Girl” Shit Test

[Edit this in when I have the chance …]

Mini-Remarks, fired back when they fit:

Which one of you guys would win in a fight? You’re taking this way too seriously.

Stop flirting with me.

You couldn’t handle me.

If that were true, you wouldn’t [already] love me. You must’ve driven your parents crazy.

Give me a kiss on the cheek and maybe I’ll let you forgive me. I’m too high maintenance for you.

What else do you like about me?


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I’m so out of your league.

Let’s play a game. Let’s see how long you can hold your breath. You’re back to square one, missy.

You’re so outside the circle of trust.

You’re such a player.

Do your parents know where you are?

Isn’t this a school night?

You girls aren’t tourists, are you?

Okaaay … You really don’t know what you’re doing, do you?

Your ex-boyfriend sounds just like me. I’m so emotionally unavailable right now. I think you might make a nice

friend.

We need to find you a man.


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Appendix D - Generic Shit Test Methodology

Tests come in many forms, and when she does something that might be a test you have to determine whether

she is being playful and with a good, flirty, cooperative attitude or possibly even showing appreciation to you

for flirting with her; or whether she is trying to show ownership and dominance over you. In the first case you

can either reward or ignore her, and in the second you must either push her away or rebuke her.

Examples of these ambiguous tests include:

“Your game isn’t strong enough. I’m bored.”

“Buy me a drink and you can nd out how good a kisser I am.” “Let me see your hat.”

She starts grabbing you even before you have talked to her, or she starts making out with you, or she touches

your crotch.

Tests like these are often a way of the girl trying to show value relative to you, and one sure way to pass the

test is to raise her value even more, implicitly making you alpha to her for the ability to do this. For example:

“Respect”

“Awesome! Point for you.”

A more classic, counter-dominance response might be:

“I don’t know who your boyfriend is but he definitely isn’t spanking you enough.” (Response to

lightweight test.)

“OMG, you totally shot me down! That’s awesome, I bet you do that all day. (To other person) Check this out,this girl is AWESOME, you come up to make conversation and she blows you out of the water. (To girl) Wait,

do it again. I’m gonna roll up on you, do exactly what you did before.” (Response to harsh test.)

(Responding to the demand that you buy her a drink.) “ Buy you a drink? Is that the best pickup line you could

think of? I thought you’d be more creative, or at least, less nervous, than that.”

Generic counters:

“Looks like someone put her crankypants on this morning.”

“God I LOVE THAT about me!” (in answer to any accusation of being a man, a jerk, a dick, arrogant, etc.)

If she calls you a pussy, always re-frame it as “ Seriously, if you don’t stop hitting on me, I’m getting a

restraining order.” Then to her friends, “Is she always like this around good looking guys?”


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Appendix E – Swinggcat’s Doggy Routine. Modified by Zed

“Let’s pretend you are my dog”

A role-playing scenario that is lots of fun to do with women is to ask them: if you were a dog, what kind of dog

would you be and why (this is a great follow up to the pug/beagle conversational opener)?

After they answer, I might say, “I like that kind of dog. I might have to buy you from the pet store.”

Then I will say with a suspicious look on my face, while turning my back on her, “You don’t pee on the oor ...

do you?”

If they say “no” then I will grab their hands while pulling them in close to me and say, “Good, then I am taking

you home with me.”

Then I might look at her in the eyes, hold her hands but start to push her just a teensy bit away from me, and

say, “Are you an adventurous doggy? Because if not I am going to take you to the pound.”

If she says that she is, then I pull her even closer to me and say, “good doggy” (you might even want to pat

her on the head at this point).

Then I might hug her and tell her that she is such a cute doggy. Then I might say to her, “you know why?” She

will say, “why”. I might say, “Because you remind me of Sam.” She will ask, “Who is Sam?” I will respond by

telling her that Sam was the only dog that I ever loved, but he is dead now and since she is almost as cute as

Sam I am going to name her … Number Two.

Then I might grab her really close to me as if I am going to kiss her, look in her eyes, and say: “Eew ... you are

trying to kiss me and you are a K-9. No worries, I am going to get you a date on that new Internet dating

website for K-9s.”

By playing this little make-believe game with her, I evoked emotions of her wanting my acceptance and

validation. Put in other words, through playing a make believe game, I was able to get her to chase me.

Very powerful, indeed! Now see the next Appendix F, “Zed’s Dog Groomer Routine” as an alternative,

and more aggressive, variation.


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Appendix F – Zed’s Dog Groomer Routine

“Me? I’m a dog groomer!”

This routine was devised to deal with some girl who starts asking too many “job interview” questions during

your interaction, the problem being that if you let her ask these questions the frame becomes that she is the

interviewer and you are the supplicant, and that she is qualifying you. That is, she is investigating whether

you are “good enough” to hang with her ... and if you let that frame prevail you are toast because no man

ever passes that test. The fact you let her test you in the first place clearly establishes in her mind

that you are lower value than she. It is a classic shit-test, however nicely phrased.

Bullshit on that. If anyone is doing the qualifying, it will be me.

Telling her that you are a dog groomer, and then cleverly making it stick through the application of a Dan

Akroydesque delivery, is also something of a neg. It tells her, “I am not really attracted to you and will not

suck up to you,” which tells her emotional operating system, “wow, this guy is way higher value than me if he

isn’t doing the AFC- bit and going ga-ga over me.” It also has the advantage of letting her friends see that

you are cooler than she is, which in taking her down a peg from her Queen of Sheeba social position, endears

you to them. From that position of dominance, you have a chance. A really GOOD chance, if you play your

cards right. But this is a good transition to get you started.

The dog groomer introduction transitions into a qualifying routine devised by Swinggcat [see the foregoing

Appendix E discussion], where you ask the questions and she answers. Note that the questions follow a clea

push-pull [or IOI followed by IOD, if you prefer] methodology, which makes the whole thing work. And it is

funny and her friends will think you’re cooler by the minute.

One quick thought: when you bring up dogs and later ask her, “What kind of dog would you be?,” she and her

friends will naturally assume that at some point you are going to refer to the sexual position, Doggy Style—

but the routine scrupulously never goes there, and for good reason. The thought of “Doggy Style” will becarried in their brains, waiting for you to “drop the other shoe” by bringing it up; and the longer you go without

mentioning it will make the tension build. They’ll keep wondering, “So when is this guy going to say ‘Doggy

Style’?” You get way more mileage from the concept of doggy style by not mentioning it than by doing the

obvious and using it, as an AFC would. Don’t go there.

Her: So what do you do for a living?

You: [Matter of factly, quickly] I’m a dog groomer.

Her: Whaaa …?

You: A DOG GROOMER. An Inter-NATIONAL dog groomer, and don’t laugh: I make more money than

YOU. [Said with slight neg implied in voice.]

Her: Blah, blah, blah, etc.


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You : I get paid, IN ADVANCE, rst class expenses for travel and accommodations plus $200 per day

per diem, plus $2000 per day for the rst 6 hours of working time—AND I’m fully subscribed through next

March … if you wanted … and could afford … an appointment.

Her: Blah, blah? Blah, blah, BLAH, blah?

You: It is a matter of talent, and artistic expression. I have it. Whether a Cardigan Welsh Corgi, Lhasa Apso,

Pomeranian, Giant Schnauzer—it doesn’t matter because these hands can nd the AKC show winner buried

beneath … the matted … coat [looking at her hair, and seemingly distracted]—say, what do they call your

hair style? The Wafe, isn’t it? [Conspiratorially] You know, I could probably DO SOMETHING with … oh,

nevermind!

You: As I was saying, it’s a matter of MALE STRENGTH, too, because you have to have strong hands to

command the respect of the larger breeds.

You: Here [holding out your hands for her to put hers in yours]. Let me see your hands. [Take them.] Now.

Squeeze. SQUEEZE THEM. Squeeze my hands as hard as you … AAAGGH! [and throw her hands down, but

playfully].

You: You have prissy hands. No dog would ever respect you. Male dogs would try to MOUNT YOU. Have

you ever been MOUNTED BY A DOG? [Look at her suspiciously]

Her: NO! Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah!

You: Hmmmm. I don’t know about you … [suspiciously, then brightly]

You: So! … if you could be just one type of dog, what type of dog would

you be?

Her: Blah. A blah, blah dog.

You: [Hesitate as though reflecting on her answer, and then you seem to understand that she gave you a coo

choice after all.] A BLAH DOG? Awesome, good choice! In fact if you were a [Chihuahua] and I saw you at

the pound, I’d take you home with me. I’d put you in my pocket and walk out the door with you.

Her: Blah, blah, blah.

You: But wait a second. Are you house broken? Because if you PEE ALL OVER THE FLOOR I’ll take you

straight back to your pound cage!

Her: ME? Pee on the oor? Blah, blah … [energetic] BLAH!

You: Okay, cool! So you and I would go on great adventures together. I’d teach you tricks and you’d do them

for me, and … wait a minute! [Suspiciously] You are an adventurous little doggie, aren’t you? Because in

order to hang with me you have to be ADVENTUROUS to share in AMAZING things with me.”


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Her : [Some variation on “Of course I’m adventurous,” which is a pre-set for later sexual attitudes, too!]

You : Come here. Let me check you out [and then slowly lean in, and deeply smell her neck]. See? If you were

my little puppy I would now know everything about you, by sense of smell. Whether you were afraid … or

aroused … either way, feeling fully dominated by me, the literal Alpha Dog.

You : So, cool … [Stop as though considering carefully, then] … Okay … I’LL KEEP YOU. But you’re going to

be a good and obedient little doggie for me, aren’t you?

Then later on, and through the evening, you can occasionally reinforce the “doggie” frame by saying, “Good

Girl!” when she does something you approve of. You can pat her knee or head, or even her hand. This will

be a call-back to the push-pull and fun feelings she had earlier when you pulled the routine.

By the way, some have suggested to me that for the under 35-crowd females, “adventurous” is a euphemism

for anal sex. I can’t say I disagre

older guys

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