plato philebus literal translation by seth benardete

8/10/2019 Plato Philebus Literal Translation by Seth Benardete

1/85

HU

SOCRATES PROARCHUS ILBS

o R A S o ook Protarhus, at wat d of sh ou rih now goig o ak ove fom Philbus n o wa kid i oucar lss i is i sai o yo ay o hiking, you'r oi o ak a stan in opposiion o ou want s o r aptt af e tw

P S Yes f rse o c R A hn Phbus aims ha o no, asr d

h 3 a a hat i onsonan with hs ns i [a] oo r all

txt s basically uts b h angs th anscpts a tak m issi l ss as n a a acs a s thasa h a aa a wa as su h Gkbt as s

is n t knwn wh t achus hilbus was bus s a a namk a an p an t s nt ccu a al n lassa Grk t mans "

ut an cats als t s at 6 6B an 2 T xpssn ata noun s litall "accng t mn "accng a

sn t matcay t is cu wi h a sa nu as thay s "acig y y hs cati mpm g n thugh isthas as i a cnc whas twn s an gants at t n n gh th ipbablt ath pssblty tng p wt ns u otr al tat th scn bst s t gt a bl ata noun95: t s n wa that ata noun can b tansa withut asing Astphasspch

3 s s as h in t y s cm a s a l a tw s h b H la s ccs s i b u t csnng d s laly a ntims in th twntyight tms l swh (lght s th ast twcn t u (r an at !9C an r hu 9A an 669D;h cspnng n ccus sx tms n at an n n t u )W knw Astt 116 that cs t t tngush btwn a t p n chnss p; a n 337C s sshs p ass a as an t h att h asu hught an staning t c usagsJ. atac Zum Wtfd "Frud n dr pra om lbg 96]

T akt " a s t ca attntn t t ambgt n ts asstn si t spssib t tak "g "t g "a g simpl "g n wul ctaily xct a at th ging t alu " w a h acl its sn wu s t inica hat h agmnt is t a stuct wt ac s y ahs

Translation by Seth Benardete


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3/85

hs

ur rhr, bh r dd h h h ht u, d h f h upp v Ah f - ?

R A R C S Y R A St , f t s kin t tugt, tugt wins ut v l

s n s is t u s tt tis s t gmnt,r

R R S I l S u hiu? h yu ? H S A r , d hl b m h

p ur i mt h but u, hu u

isin n u wn A R U S u hdd h s v u, hibu, u

ld hv uhr v my mt h Sr r my cy.

P L S h y y i u m f fc I h m Bf d t witnss nw h gddss s

R T A R An w wu b int wtnsss wit u t tsv ft, tt u w sng wt u sg ut m th Sr , t thg , l u hv

mi g h u f ' v wi

R A S mus t mk g f t , st tng f us fm t g-ss sf ms tt, tug s s spkn s At, h tust m is Psu

R T A R C M rh . : M chu c f m f

h i v hum v y g fS nw t s f Apdi n wtv w its h,

tts t w ss but s su knw ts mpx ting n n ginnng m t, ust s si, must d r h ur h Pur

9 h r trt c rr thr t th tt hx t (d-hi c mkg h t esre thght t rto te ltter t ttes Protrss ter hoe

10. poum w s trslted wsh m s of t etrey hs two seses;h ter oe s to ke t or to ese olto t t omesto m t h r r' r rctr hh th rr

me th hr hsu hk t , r t th h Th db hium hd 6C

Hv g t g t t t met o gt th u rmh r (Let's tr to go thgh t to te e [mt]); bt t hrdly ggt te mtoeo betwee exeee pra d lmt )


4/85

4 Phlb

it's spoken ofjust like that withou qualication, is some one thing,u t sey has ake al sos f shapes tha ae soe seseuke oe aohe ook We sa he epeate ha beg

a peasue, a he oeate takes peasue too hs begmoeate; and the senseess, in tun, wo s u of thougtessonons an oes, takes easue, an n tun te toughtfl[takes please] in is ben tougtfu And just how, for each airo hese peasues wou oe ay ey ae ke one aotheo j sly oe o gh t as ess?

P R T R s he eso s Soates hat these peases a e froontay cc pgm; in teseves oweve they

ae o otay to one aothe How could leasue not e ostie o peasue hs vey thig o sef t of al ths km?S O R T S ow etaodnay you ae Coo km too s ke

oo. On ths ass oo as a wole w not at of a de-es thouh we a ae auate with ak and white andnow that bac, besides being ieent from white, is n fact mosconay Lewise, ure too is ie ue it is all one y genus,

13A but as o its ats, some pas ae ost contary to eah ohe aso e suey a of a thosafo eee a we'l

ay othe hgs o e ths wa. So ot pt a tus thsseeh a eas tha whh akes a he ost otay hgs oeIm afai wel d some peasues contary o peasue

R A S Peraps but wy wi hs arm o speeh? C R A E S Beause you adess the, wel say athough tey ae

uke wh aoe ae fo yo say tha al the peasa thsae goo. ow o speeh takes a sta pposto to the fattat the peasant ts ae peasa; ut ahoh e ajoty of

B te ae ad and thee are good nes as wel, as we asset, a thesame you adess tem a as ood, atou, soud one rncompson on yo in te aument yo agree that they ae unie What s the ta s the sae the ad a oo leasuesake so that ou aess a peases as eg goo?

P R R S ow o yo ea Soates ? o ou sppose ayoew oncee te oint, once e ses down e ood to e peasue

C and w reay put up wit your sayng that some easures aeood and some ote tan he ae bad

s R T S We a eas you say that ey ae uke oe aothea soe ae otay.P R R S ot a a sofa as te ae pleasues at a aeS O R T S We'e be ae ba to the sae auet Pota

cus, and we' asset ta ease afte al s not deent o


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hs

ar al ar a an xa n nndo't o s al ad s sy s at t ha- a a a ar a m a h m D

R T R H U Wa g xa as o A B t yo a nn ys I

av nrv t sy o nl of all n l h most k o sy s a yo dd d ' h a mr m ha a r arg r rar a r h a ar a d ra hd p h

sa ho o o oh pps l a aa nnPOTA RCHU S : Say how. R A T A m m b aga b Prar R R H Wa d ? o R A T E : W a a rd g

tot ko 1 d n pcy a I s o a inn an a r ood xpi t sa t yo r-t d?

R T A R H : H R A T Al n gr gh ay a

so f k o ao at so o o a n r r nrar l I aal rv b n vr n f n far f vr on I ar a no s n n a o ag i his yj s a f a myh od pr ad 1 b rv ld r a ra rra al

R A R H U : Wl h gh o happ x p ao

"i w a a s s i Gk s a a agii a ig a uai is a aa pais a ag a a ias i h Phaedo 85

13 E (kwg is als asa as " si s a ip is a ghg ps ha "a (tekhn. ha hs s a d fx la ssw y ti is iu i wi iagus Sohis a Sasma. Soh"a cus sixy s a "kg u u ama "

us yu s "k w y " y is s a g as i xpaais i

sia a is s a ha was app l s w w pag a wha s g sa a Theaeeus 164, s sa appla l hs wh g h au a l pera); a a h h Republic 21B lusas xp aa i Sas' " y was sa a " y i s s a gs h a a yhs a as u u as wa y sak s xis


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6

eng rgh af evr h qay f yr argmnad i appea :5 e r b man i pleses ndany dern ien

B W, n, Prarh, h neang e dreneete ne ad , e et e he dd, ad 'e dag and ee hthe he, n beng ed in e a meva hhe gh a ha h gd par rhg r, d, me ee. r re e're aiming ath nd , tat wha I prpe e e ner r ha t we t t n n an aane h te mrh

PROTACHUS: Ie we ust. OCRTES e, then et's cnrm hi agent ore thrgh are

Wha nt at Te on cus roube l hm gs w

e a t nwOTAH Spek mr crlyES en the gent zng n ehow r other

onefl b ar tt js o e ay Tt the

are e a t n n an azng terane, an 'asy t te a t n ete side aga ane h t tre the

POCHus o yo ctly e th henvr seoe sys e Ptcs, wh s coe to b one y e, tht t

aai a n a cnrar ote, ig n te se[] s a ht, avy ad tand hr ?6

el, Pocus yo v spoke h a we at te ne an my t t een, n pnha 'e clds esy, nd stctly pedes h -ents, s cncee by now tt ne ogt not t en on tnsie ha, n een te fin in f hing ot to

E ae, wheneer e dvde p ph b andent pat ea th, and ne he a n he arem

"Appeases isk whch can also be asated "peases or satses.16. Comare 129D, where in fomulating f te s ie his

"ry f deas, e young Scraes says: "But if somone wi shw ta m n ad w' rvl b g w e w rv I y yrg g r g y kr w w w I v I r ow e w t ' e w say wen w ae seve a e uaeig parakg as we of te ne; hene he pves hat th ae true?


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7

rom somo a a o is al os hins moily fusm caus as n uy cold o ass onsoushins h o is ay ad uliid and h many a nyo"

R u you ocras wa nd o oh hins do youman wi av o y ulicd ad oncdd aou issa arumn?

s o R v y y sn s w o s w u w w n s s w u w n o hs d s o o udu wh so

o ris o s dow uman i as and ox as on and aul as on nd t good as on i as o s nasand hos li hm a xnsiv a dis ayd i hi as wh dvs cms m su

P R A R C : w R A T E h s whh on us suos ly

ar som moas s ind n ow hs onads in ualou a on is awys h sa m ad ami s nh naiono uo a sa ah s os sculy hi

d wh u

17 Cmar Shs 251A-B: "n spng hun eing we surly name himany tings besies, appyng o m colors, gures, szes ves and vrues, n a fwc and usans of oers we say no ony a e s un beng bu aso goodand ntely er ngs And w everyting ese besides in jus ts wy, n accrnce wth he me sec we ay dwn ech s ne, n thn agin w n t sa t a wt n .... It m t ante t, I suct ttwv rang ast r th ung n the lt lre mn th , ts stghto rdy-aand or everyone o g a counerodt's just as impssble for e

many o be one as e one mny' And heres no doubt tt tey e pesure in noawng e seaing o a uman being as good for te g is god an e humneing uman being'

18 The tet ha n uch ate, ther with the eet erl ws thtt ntnce is e t a "he s an erwheng munt sute wth egat te hn tc, r wth an ateatn "ea sd tt t ecme n ve ccrig heiss (The Riddle of the Eary Aademy ereley alf, 1945,32), te dcuty lude o s te probem of preservng uny of n de as agenus n lg of ts spece, an e suggess ta Speuspus based s banonent ofe eas n fvor of numbers o t c als eiss's Asoe' Ctsm Pao an thAcadm Balre, 944 60 But the true dcult rises from the sit twenth that te hlcl mathtcn n a th that cates g c 60E. Nwhe els t re th eas cl ethr "he r"nas c haeo 0 5C

e e and inerpretatin ave bn uc ispue e commenry secXV gves a posse nerpreaon if e tex s aowed o san, bu s ften en


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Philb

ome o e a ae me, e m e own a moa a led aa a eome may, o a a wole aa om i i a oud aea o e mo imie al igi ome o e oe ad e ame muaeoul i oe ad may

C ee o aou e oe a ma o id, Poarcu,a o oe, a ae he ae o evey k o ely a daee ey ae o eailly aee o, a, u ,ae o a go od ouey a a wiou o ale ey aeeauully ageed o

P R R S M we o , e, o ou way oug i,oae, a he ee me

S O S

I wol am a leaP R R S ell, e, oe all o u ee o oede o you

o a o ea e a e mome o o le y aki m, e he i well lad o e a he i

S R S Vey ell om wa i i oe o egin exeieand omaiou ale ao e po due i fom ee

P R O R S om wheeS O R T S e uely ae a e ame ig, i ecomg oe ad

ay y eee, u aou evey de o e oaio o

waeve i aid, o e i e a a ow And i ill eveo, ad dd o a ow, u id g i, a aea o me, a eale ad aele exeiee of eee emee an o eah oao we oe o he you e

E a a e o , he ae eae a e ha o ome eaueov o wom, an eae a go m, 22 a he lalyleae o agme uned, omeime ollg i o oe ide ad

rewrten to reduce the apparenty three prolems o wo. E Moore suggese hate secon probem aues to h o as the intee css of a te_ deas (oores c p 215 f ury's it he Phius)

20 Te prver achs aus s s h ev tat we a orest, whc s appe to those who awaken vs aanst hemseves hee s anoherprover tha mght e urng here "Don' mv h nmovae whch refers o sacrethngs that are not to e aperd wth an n h cnex mght refer to Pheussshakabe covcton aout peasure

2. Daless an agee" i a Homer phase, wch Calps us scwha se mie ae Oyse (Odyssy 5. 36 u t as us h a v gs Acs's paace Odyss 794 a occurs i Pa' Ssm (273,

escrng the actvty of the emurge n hs erodc rnewa of he cosmos22. "uts a go n thusiai s eray o e n a sa [usua mor] ohang

the god wthn; he corresponng ajcte hs w e god whn) uot ver an aetve can mean no mor than the wor enthusasm conves n

sh


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9

knn t nto on n tn t otr tms unron t on morn vng t up nto rts rmry trowng msf mor tna it prpxit a ar whvr xt t

h rar whthr h r lr r a tmparpar thr h athr r hi mthr r a hi 16A rs a amt otr masot t m g snc wount sr n on of t rrns rov ontt n ntrprtr from somwr or otr

R A R C : ata r mbr rat ar a a r t t arai brat that wll with hi a atta tl a a w rta wat r ig a thr a wa a v th on hfor strn of ts kn to rt from our rumnt n somgrous mnnr or otr n o t otr to n som mor Batf wa ta th r t argmt w r agr aw ha w a a bt w a r th prt armt mal rat.

o c R t t m b a Phb a w rsss you Tr s not owvr nor ou tr vr mor at wa tha t on of c I m wys vr

athg t ha t b w ap a t m rtpathl a prpx. R R C : hat t t it a. o e R T thog t carc ct t mak ar t vry C

r to us Evrytn onnct wt n pnnt on rt wsws sovr troug t n s om mnfst Consrth wa ma.

R T A R t pa. C R A T ll t a git th g t hma big a t appar

t m it wa thrw b th gs rm mwhr or tr longwt som most rnt r troug som romtus n tncnts ng pror to n wng nrr to t gospa a a rprt atvr ar th tig tat ar ai tb t ar t a ma a th hav thv aiat mt a imt." It tmat th that w mt t ig av b arrag i t ki rr awa st on on c ocson sng oo 3 out nytn n

23 I s nse g s " (wi ne een s ne) n e sngs om do y es i t ne of t esevemn tty n t m d m to mo no d to t toot om t v to d mo n do lto it too i timty om tm oot


10/85

0 Phebs

go o to seach o ta snce s n t we n t tey saya then i we get it we ust exane two ate oe [ie], wetethe ae in sm o othe and i n thee o so eent

numbe and n m lewe [we mst min) h hsone, nt one ee ow many te ogna on e aso s, an nt ustt i i on an m and unimite a we ust ot py theook i o th niit to the anio boe oe catces s ight

o its eti ub bteen the te an th ne an tenat tt tm m khirn the a an t c n evey one them go to e e 4 o the o asse t on o s sI sai, that t was in thi tt we to exame n e

an teach oe aoth; bt hua egs nowaasthose wo17 A ae wseae ne an an aaa an an c aaste a shote2 than the ught to an eatey ae theone t e make thing nliitd t e mle this escaeem. I e me n at e eparaton een maen talng ith n nh aetcay a ti.

P R O R S I have the essio c at in so esectsI nsan a sens t in es I ne to ea soe an wa ye sayng

W Im aying, otahus is eay pan in th e case o B ette n ae t njust te wa ou ave een euate n thm.P H S O R S though thee s no dubt tat ou voce the voc o

eac a ve ne s c ocees tog te ot soe a n tu nite i ttue

O H U Wh of cose t, we ae no et we at a mee ete one o

tee ee eae we now e unmte o ease we

ow the n o it bu t wat mk eac oe f us se n gaac s is tat we n an te [e sns] ae anat i the ae 2

24. One igt compa the revsed account of te Heaclans an Eocanstat te eatc Stange gs n t Sophist (252b-6): "A, e a tose wo ams t eeyn togeer an at ts e arss o wer tey e an o a ny ns n a o o a y y ns wth lt a s the out them, and simi-ay te ty s s ow as aaey beomi and say wheter y s

t on as always bomnn a tes ass ty wo b sayn on e sno xng ogetr

25 Soe (brakhuteron) s Baam's naton o e anscrts slordero.

26. Gamat s s o o grammatke, a o a a w.Lette ae se in e he intepetato of the vew ha e


11/85

Phb

R R C Ms R n s sam tng m tat in a maks

ach s msca R O R Hw RT h ag hat a u s s C

RTR U cs. o R w t s wn tw as w a hgh8 a a h

wth a f tc hw R O R C ths wa R E Bu s u kw us h a u w nt

ws usc ut t kw hm wi vu-a whss s ga RR s wthsss O C R T Bu a hv as hw ma u ma

vas h a st h hhss a wss hs a wha s h a a h uas h vas Dan w m sas (sustemaa) hav m t mhs w c s sv hm t ass ana am astmns " harmonia s th wsan

th sv t tha h a h ats pah f sa k h tns f h s ths hsa n t a as h nums ha ms v na ms an ms mass an th ass nth s gh t at t sm m ha s n ts wa at n ms mas svas a v a maa us a s wh-v u as vas a sas mus s wa h u ws s whv ak svts tsk u s hn s whatsv f h s t in s

wa hav m hug m mhrn) u a sva h n in ach sva ng as as ah a v cas s nss aron), ss apron u w tuhsss a aks u as

lmt ofknod r obl bt tr obt or yllbl r kobd t St A or t u rll f v r B otoRt Sm tr.

27. ompr S B t t u t o o s t to ot ds d ot tt m d dt m tgtr d t o w dst udsd s nm At 2 A tr mor brt y o tt t m l

o baru ka xu lo d of t rv t t ovol f Cratyu 3B


12/85

Phebs

eue a eea a a aae u a e ay aut, beae y ee ke away eeythg ese wa ay be i ahg

P R O T R S appeas t e a a hu, ha a haske he eet eak t eautfuy

8 P H I E B e hee tae heee; w eat a ee ee e ee u , a at e e ea a

s R T s e qust h ha aske s, Ptahs, s g the ak

P R O T R s Ye, f se a aswe h s R T S

t e g th a s a pt au h eyh t a ee wee ee t ap ay e watee,

e, a e aet, u k ahtawa a the atue thete ut at e ue, he a ae, wheee ee pee t take he ute , h ut

B t k taghtaay at the e, h mu ee f ahwth se ube t a , a e f a t e hat eg a, et' take t u e e the ase ete.

P R O T R S HwS O R T S Afe smhr se aye a i hu-

a be (the y e that t was a ca heuth ypt)ee u a ue , e a e t t eae a thewe te ute ee t e t eea, a aa he,

9 T is sis o puns i n tis pss tt cnnot b poducd ctly utitud is clld "unliitd pro in suc wy tt it stnds in t sntnc nxtto " you wic, ltou it dos not syntctilly odiy t pps t wy o apei-ro in t sns o "npincd, wi dos uiy you tid to cony tsby tnstn ro b "ndss nd "npincd (ros in toutulnss by"no nd to toutlssnss Socts tn tks t wod eogim (notbl s i t wto b itlly undstood s " wo s ogs in i nd rhmos s i it w "wo s nub rihmos) in i t tn s " wo is to ckond wit "Asnconsqunt s inconsqunti is nt to cony t doubl nin o eomnd " s incpb o count in s o in o ny ccout tt o enaimo is s ss o puns in Tmus c7 wt d to wt t is nit ut notn nnt nu o unss

3 t Phrs octs n ccount o f wt nsud t ut'ssco f tts but t ut s sid t b od Phlbus pss s on o

t y w in ntiqu ty in wic t i s cknowdd t t yptn witin ws pontic lsw it s ttd s i it w nty idopic t soul kd,ow tt yptn wtn do not pnt t ow "n un n(thos hro) is xpssion in k it cu twic lsw i Plto Mn89 gs 9 c Eom 99c6


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Philb

g w akg f s s h sha a Ci ri r 3 e r a ir i r nnn b a i h v hsss a vss ah v a s sam ma k m ma, ah va a a hm g gav b i i h vr r v b i i r a was a s m ss was m a a f m h

aa a was gamma a a ass as h ag s I ra i rr i r

r i r r ih hr; f m s s s mssg ss w a a wa

E s b as a s aE: s as h as a av skg

i

a R A E W r r i v ig i r i P I Hwsa : as' agm aa m gg a

g d r wh f h a i b h ILB O r i . O R A : A w rhr f ir i P HI L E B s s s C E : am s ma m s s

v w s a m a ma a a sagh m w h sssss sbr i rir vi ii A

PROTACHUS: h b

3 Cop eaeeus 03B ima lon to t voil ahna it oly sun (psoph); i n nu sss; an o a in un mo ot s s s n vo phn r d pph)." T a snvo n t apt L, mivol J , ) n nin ononant x l '

2 oi it aoa eehegxa onon ant to in ot alion tohhs noi) aov C o Crayus 424C: Mnt too n t ayivi t vo a hneena t n tn o t t in y n t voic

apha) d udl aphha)-ti a v i s mas a -d i tu t a no vs phea) u s n ud aphhaJ?


14/85

4

o oth Soats d us aound in a le and has ast s into a notshaow and tl est A o cose hh oe s wiansw t snt qesto . mye its dicu lous tat hundtook t elce y cmletely s the scess the arument, on aot of y inpaity to answ te snt qest

B eoi it o moe on yo t its fa oe idios, I sst,f eith o s s apae o onide. hat e we to do? So-ts, it see m to me, in o aout he speies of pase, weth the ae o ae ot how man tey , and whatn te ae n t ot tot ee o the mtems

SCAES

Wht y sy s most te s s 33 As th e stmet eee e e ot e to o ths the c se eeyo ie, ad sa m, and ti ontais, not any on o us woudee oe o e ot t t

C P H t eems to tt ne the , ot. Butlth ts a eautifu l th fo t odat to now eeytst ts thht to b seco s t to e e o oes4 Why eaty hav said ths o sha me t ain to t wa , ote, ho fee ee to of s th t

tte d yof for h pupos of tt teet t te st of ma o eo . e t lese el ht y 5 eeyth o th ind yo soe

st them s t s't tese t those e te em seles lly ( ts t t s e tht es te the o a tstd Yo set, it s, ttwt w ty e ee a o ette t t tis mind, owd, nten, at, and in tn vthn at the; y sset e oht to qe them ot thethes Whe ah st s stte sttosly e thetn o payfuy, " sha not t you o ho bfo so

33 Cls is too common nm to dtern who Protrhus's fthr ws, andon th bss o wh w know it s mpossibl tht the s who is mnt s th one twhos hus h sophsts gathrd n h rtaa.

34 "A scond silng" mans o ry n n's wn owr nd no wh rwsw b bst nr favrb cnns; rrs rong rr an ny rncon t wds. Th hrs ocrs twc swhr n P, onc n h ad 99whr Sorts ss o hs tu wy om a tleoloa physs to th "s andso in th Sama wh t rrs t th us of ws std rne hewso of th ws mn on th spot.

Kaa Uy) dos no appar anywhr s n t s to n sty trgy an dy


15/85

u 5

scory 6 o h rnon f hs rus s rc. ou r n v yous us o hi urosn ' r syn jus i chrn rs o o sy o g ac hat s b gtly g i." gt f hat sa st tg s ts a s

O R E : Wat ay yu a O R : y caing no xy h hs no wy 2

n sin us quons o h ou no o or ou h on iscor n qu ns. us no susp ha h r y f u h f f t rtss t a ual t t st t y

gt ts g aha a lat your hthy us v sc f a a y o i n s sns on so or u yo r n n o m cr in o irn h iu nohv

R E : W t sc y ts ay tl Bst ng t aytg a th as yat o i y f ou c onn i on o h o I h rn u o

ory. R O A acy a f at R A E c a sm t ag s sch i a a

ma as aa at las a tght a v t i i hy sa ht th f h p th oou hr's son hr or hn h r hno. n hs h vvnss o yi cos o h C s no h u ha scarg f nnng ort g t b g t sa as t O

R O R : st SO O R A E : A n y opi sh no n v n urhr

n h ssus nvov n h vso o sc o ur s os orr h run so s or in

R O R : A t t s t atfu ly g t th [ lt s t ths ay

R A E : Wl , t , t s a fa a fut agt al s

S

W i36 "rs hik tfctoy t nontcnc u of t nt

ms y Potcu sms pma B a o as s pa a30


16/85

6 s

S C R A T S Wehe nee h he o nd oon o heoo e c oete n eet o ot oete peect

R A R C S : , octe, the ot coete eect o S C R A E S : Wh o thi? he oo ete e R A R C S Of oe, nd de n h ee o

n that are.S C R A E S : Ad o ee oeoe, o e he

pot ot t, I pec eet tt w pre de -re t, d wa t ce ep t ab el oe ot ie toht to t eeecept to t th e omed lon wit o

R A R C H U S : I oe to od S C R A S : o e t ee e the e o pee te eo tot oo t te earael

R A R C H U S : How o e S C R A E S Le ee e ehe h he ie o lee o

pleasure te le hou , r f ete o hem od m no e n additonal need o n ee ome

A to ee th e o oe he e nd t3 oo u

R R U Hw culd o R A E S I e n te et o o R T A R C S : e, S C R T E S So nwe R R C H U S : pe R E uld Prarch coo to e r wle e

t pee e geae pee R A R H U S : o?S C R A T E S : Wud o ll ee, hen o he h

ecty ad omeel, o had eed o omehn n ddo? R A R C H U S : ot ll .S C R S : o oo to e tot to thn, to cc te wh wa

37. e u ed e e e d Thrughot, "really and rly transla t h le ee w nt w

he adverbial form f te neter particle o te verb t be It i hus be itingished fro whatevr a rticle igh tis be translated by eally alne as well r h veb a whh ed uu ruy

39 Cme Ae Nicomacean E ) 112b28-34: By kd -um v e e e e e eb u pni) t d e med bee eue e d d is lain that nthing else ether, which prvs t be reerable wi e thetng tat s goo n itslf woul be h .


17/85

7

e, an vertig ra h w't hav an f m

R O A R : W Sur wl av vrtig s av

: Ten sould ive n s way, aoug yo wuawas b ng grat es plasues rg your e

R O A W R A E Sll , w i ps sssi f mi mm

an r p s vr ss whr ' re enj g orno eoyn sre 's necessy for yo n he rs pae noo know ben empy as yo wo d be o every nd of ou .

R A

's a eess t R A E A rr am a f mm Cr, srl s a sit a rmmr r w wr jig, w as f t oenos n denaly no emo y o was oever ngers; and nrn yo don possess e opnon won opne a youejig al h ar ig, a big prv f a-a r ab fr ar im a wij, a ar t ivg lf f a m bi b f sm

ells a f ose a v n e sea and are ensoedw esaeos bodes Is s e ase an we oneve o df- een ngs beyond em?

R O A H oud we R A E s a f i a aa a s R A R : sp ra a w a m a

splssss : , e es no ye become sof and owady bu

es ae p n rn he fe o n a n a t O R Wat i f lf a o R A : W s r v s

sssi f g, mi wg, a a r mmr vrig, b w a sr p su , i gra r sma any ore an n pan 4 bu oeher naeed by al ns of e kd.

40. This is he s ccece of he word pan ; altgether, t curs ixtysee tmes ad the oespdng vb (t pa/t be aned) twent

e ties N 1 7 a -8: "Just a o one woul coose to ve th theough o a h ougo s e, akg peasue e g a e mos

ejoy a y oe a ayoe wou ooe o ey o g ay of e os ae fthgs so we wod e evo ed o may hgs eve tey sho d oe o peasue


18/85

1

P R T R C S : hr o h, So, o l o hoen, nd, I , wll n r o o non e

22A E Wh o h l o h oeh, orh? doehe o oh d pt n oh?

R O R S Yo o pe e n d nd hohS C R T S , I en ht nd h o he n.P R T R C U S : Srl on wll oo h l o o hr o

ho, nd d, no h on wll hoo nd nohr no, eon wll who pn .

S O C RATE S : Do we then desa wha h cosqen is for usnow n e pn en

P R R S

Y, o o. I th he we popoe, nB h o h o h dqe, n ore hn h oo or n n o n.

S C R T E S : n l now o m n oh hd he ood ohrw wold dq, er, ndhooe l p n , o who w ple o w hrho h le n h w t w n on o o hoo dn hn , wold n hw nd, o o nor o o uh e, onr o

h n o h rl hool R O R s I loo n e h .

C s R T S ll, thn, h one o no onee o he oe o l e h me h oo o e o h n d dl

P I L B S : An mor h o nd, Sor, h ood h, wl l he hr.

S O R S : Ye, hl, pehp ne I p, howe th he n nn n n o nt h he, t n o m dn . ow I o on eh omnd or h o r or an he oon l, we o nd ondr wh w l do o h ond rz.

h h o wod l rn o h oo l, Ih n h , 4 o tht pee , ho he o , oh eh o h wo e the oo, php oe-one h oe h on o h oh w he . ow o on wol d h o nh l or nd n

for exam p, si ght memory knowedge vrtus; and makes no ierence f ofneess easres o along w h them fo we wo coose the een if lesresho no arse fro the ."

Th e o cas" n a s a s enonae m hich a s js benasa as ai siiy.


19/85

Phu 1 9

tat, t cas o ts id , watr tat tn s, n ttakng o wi t if a bom a hoiwor a i ooi i ot lar in at i or an o i a ar tgrar li a aoring o i argt i wold ner trl a tat lar ataks o tr rt or cond r, s artr o tan r z at mmnt w a tot a trst at a n m mn

R R C U S Wl, Socrats, its m o inion tat a o ow o'rronib for h r olla o ar kno own a ir r argt or got ai ot i gig ort cor ri b mi it mon ha to a tthogh 23A

r to la a c lai to t ctor riz, or ad , wod a ric t am ar, sod dred o con rz, wol aboltl ncr o ihonor romhr or for i at r th a wo o ongr aar aatif n to t

RE at te st it ttr to let hr go ow an not, t a ato to r o t m ost rcs and rn tortr, rftand an r

P R R C S or tang nonns, Socrat

R A E Ba atall ai th imo ibl o ain lar4 B R O A R No o at ba o'r alo awa ha

ot on of wil rla o t or ou co to th coltd o t tis n t armt

S C R T E S o o4 Protars Wat a ast armnt lt,an t rtt narl ot en a at t omnt I go ng oreco rz o balf of mn t aa r tr' of a irontran a o a weaon a t were) ot ta tho ot ros arumnts, t ras om ar alo h sam

So w tn R R C S orsS C R S t tr to b cao n ttng own t eginning C R O A : at giig xatl o o man O R A E t' ta aart in o al now i wol

t rathr, 4 o wat, treeP R R C S Wod o o nt ot o n wat lins

43 Ha Pt dy n t n oun ['Y alng n-en]? hn n S n a aneing an t t wnj Bury a )

44 B By is baai w exesses stisnt a suise45 "Rte s maon w s us te i Sctes t uni

ite "t e n ess aon is s tste s "te t E 4A 6E (twie)an 7B i ftn xss a rn


20/85

20 Phbs

S R A E S : t's ck o ont of t rst gmnts R A R H U S : chS R A E S : w sg obts tt t go sowd t nm

o th bng n th mt R A R H U S : Y of corsS R A E S t's st down th two r o scs n th r

on bg md togth o of bo I m t m cos h ng stng tgs rt b cs m-n th togth

R R C U S tht m god mnS R A E S : t to m th 's rth o orth gns P R O R U

S wht t . O R Lo t th c th mx toeth o t thrt to on nothr nd n ton to the thee e st n s th t

R T R C H u s n't th h so t sw wt t h ow to s mn

O R A Perh t no, I ect t mmn I hwvr th d d re ll rl or m f fter fth6

R A R U S : h o cors

S C R E S th t th o t t t t t tt t t s t n tn nto n gg tot nmo of ech of th tw nto on et t to coc n wht wec f thm w e ad m.

R O A R U S I old fw h tel m tth t

S C R T E S tn ' n tht t tw 'm osn tm I t now th nt tht wth t n

ty to ot ot tht n rn w th nmt may Btht wch h mt wt rd fo to ct

R A R H U S Its wtnS C R T E S th t t o t c

s t n st st o cs t s n th o ott n o wt o co con of om l t o wod h mo nd e 48 whch w

46 e n usr ts re " fter t e "e s eter eete or eeded to

"perfo ce (bia).47 h cy w h "h whch h whh bo

h w h u f o h x o h bck boh e rs "ore ess mal /on te ka h to occurs seve tes n te Pl-

u oce wtout te rtce 24E d owee ese Pto ut t mallon kai


21/85


22/85

22 Phib

own fom he own ae n wh the a was n he aaes he o uh i woud no onge b oe o od hefo the hott is away advanng and doe not wai and tode ewise u he so muh stos and ease oing on Soori o is rum r r i is orryo om uii

P H U t aeas so at any ate oaes u t a you ay no eay o foow; bu i e d again d n

wou any bng quon n t qution o a-u onsonan

W thas a ood pon nd ut y to do t n a

way Now oo and s whethe w sha a hs a a sn o thenaue of he unimid n od ta in xaing veyhn way no go on oo on

P H U Wat exay do y ou ean O E n ofoty wth the rvos a umnt you -

mmr r syi ri othr s s ou and tap some sne r o yn spnt a

5 t awe u ut vyn om o ight o u asbom o nd cvng t t n gt

oo u n veyhin e o i knd no t gn of tunmied a f no on.

P O H U rmr O is a dont eee te u do eee

evyhing onay o hemin he s a the eua andquaiy and afte he qua h doub and anyting tat ated

a nu e o nub o e asu to eau eif w kon thea toe no e we wou e houh to be dong tuiy r how o you say

P O H U Ms autfuy ortes Vry we the ut te whh xe o oh

o hi a wt ook da) e w o ay P R O R S ou goin to oi ou o oo I upt S O R S o no I ut g od t h i on o gd

heans o my ayesP H U Do pry then and onsde o c onsien nd ts y esson os

ha one o f hem ha u s o w oved t o be findy o u s C H Wha do you man by h and what in of evidendo you us

o viousy pont out Bu eas oow e n rm

P R O T R S u


23/85

h

S R S : wr sr sn st now of sothin s hottrand codr rn't w

P R R C H S :

Ys R A E S : n to tm r ad wttr rar nd rcr an so, ir ad sar ad r n n t rios arn w r tn nto o as onn o atr tha ccs th or nd ess

P R R C H S : Yo mn nar f th nmd c R A T E S : Ys hn m into t n trn hat whch coms tr

thm t osr o m tP R A R C H S : t osng

R A E S : 's what w dd no vn now rn othr thghw shod hav don t nd jst as w roht tor th o-rng o th nmd nto on so w shod v so rohttor th osrng o the it ino on t rps i i s as o f o of a ro or a os ri oo w co a.

P R A R C H S : ht ind do y n and how R S : h srg f h a nd do nd s any o-

srg as t a sto to th thns tht r contarly at odds with

on anotr ad th nsrton of nmr rndr thm commn-srt n cosoa.

P R A R C H S : dsad. prs o m tht o ar sayig tt m ths thns h est s crtn comns n ch ndvd cs

c R E S : Ys nd t ers that Im rh t

h tnte Bunet tt ut tee e el culti he t iwhete u ds c n mn "it will eju t ct ; t he cn n iu

i whth the ing th limitik cn cm idnt i th unclcted limi tikn the nitd ght togethe. The commen ay agues that the iitk takestw n tself n the om o aithmt and gemet, wc annot n tnbe rought tgeh nd nth n th om meases d th mease o th nn the m. t ght thght ht ght tgth h cd Jckn" ixd tgethe ut cp f Shs 25 0 with 253C hw tht the tw tm nt itinct ne might wih

5. "Cment tr mn tt tha whch ing d tchtht wich s oin t measng; m ti t omes t n "m c ttm c t A 40 4 A "e te i etro nd it cc n th

sense m ic t 0 nd in n c t tht t A twc u c nd ul i t 5 it th ccnc t 25 twice 260 43C 52C A."Meu ( which litelly en "tht wich mue wul t nit il y "wthin eu e "ete ; it ccu t 2 32A 4 n 66A"Th t in whic th i m i r 26A 52 20 650 n "wht i witt me ) cc t 5 and 5 h t m tr) i n t17.


24/85


25/85

hls 25

R T a -y up mta t muttu m yu; yt oo rmay ger

u te se, e tey d ben stmpe ad

the es of mo ts o they m o ht as e

R R Tre. R A oo it a gra r w w

itr a t w o n R O R How oul R I wy Bt wn I set wn teir etire sprg as

tis ne say tat wht I mea by te thi this, t enesis it

eing tt ru log w o of maur P R R uas o R t o o t , w w ag

the tree tere was sme frt es we ad t examine heexaiati is a jit e d see wheer yu thi it e-essry tht a the tigs tt me it eing me it eig of o u.

R R Ye o o ow ou o o b w-

o R Is't it the s e that te atre te m aer des nt at

ier eet am rm ase, te maker a te sewo g o of o

R C s o A furr, w a , ur, tat j a cau 27A

k w n w o o o rx ame Or w

R R ats R maker ten aws t l u

w g f n oig

55 i p ssge i fe emee r fows: A we wre o dsrssedh h imi oo nih mny or ws n by nu h mnon h h mi h be ed in h m n h nimi bn b h rsos fr hin ki tat ta s n t h

56 h is the txt of manuscrpt Both B and ad: "out o th asrs hahave ben pduced alng wth the t.

57. Th secnd tm th words case ad mak a mentnd he, they ae ne neer t aton n t pioun , rp ci ey ws h mnion f cu n h minin Thi ony h h rs e o m ker i bhoh of mcin

58 T imiion o eom prodc o mkin i h i in Greese ecme (ggnestha) s f sd as th ase "to ake poen) cf.Hpp Maor 297 A)


26/85

6 Pu

P ROTA R C HU S : Sure.

S C R E S S as and wha s nsad as fr h rs fn ar drn ar al and h sam

R T R C H U S W S C R T E S Wa n a a a

i m pi wi h r na R R C H u s ndd

B S C R E S 'r ng h cas as frh h crar f a hshns n h grnds ha as bn mad ar adqal a i an

R R C H S hr

S C R E S Nw r h sak f rmbrng ach n s rghnc hr s a sc rnn f fr ra in rdr

R T R C H U S W S S l hn n a a n an

n an x h a n a a and sak h as mr

d gnss as fr w I aca b srkg a fas?

P R R C H U S B hw?S C R T E S n a x an a i n

n l av a n Wa i anasn s aca h n r kin srz wd blg asr r hgh as hs h as?

P R R C U S Ys was h asS C R A E S d aal nw h as rhas afr w mad

a a an viin a l an r a n ab an n a abm a a pi an

R R C U S Prhs S C R E S m n s w sr s dwn h mx f f a

sr ad hgh as rsas s? R A R C S a C R T E S n a w i in a i a

wh ns n R R C H S O crss o R E S

nd w' sa s s s a r f h hrd gns r i i s m w hi a nd a av bn n h ii and i i i b a a i

P R R C U S N ms rgh


27/85

hu

o E S Vey e the. ut ht about yous ebus est a umed s s wht eus of the aoremetoed shouldt so e spoe o, would t e rty soe o ut efore youdeae t ease ase me the follo

P H I L E S : ust s ekS C A E S : oes te a easue ad a ave mt o do they

s a be o o he hs hat eeve the moe d ess B S : Yes Soaes of t more or ess ee ct by

atue umted ot o a maod ad the moe esueou ot otese be toty ood.

s T E S A or , ou o bd 8A

r So a o us has to oo t soet s e ature of the ume s that whch sues some rt of ood tothe peas res l et yo hve ths par o yours as eo to teeus o e ms s hs but as fo tou ht kolee dmd, Po d Ps w sod ow m ow of food s, wold w o o ma ety? hete e'e t o tk o o about te esetueso s my oo ot a s mall sk or us

H E B S : hats euse Soates you'e mak you o od

us S C R T E S Ad o mk o ow [odds s s w,

m od m w o sw so A C H S : e you o hebus hat oates says s ht

ad we hve to oey hm U S : Wel hve you ot chose Protrchus to spea o my

eha R C H o ow, ow I oss,

d Im yu, Sos, you or om or moee 60 oe ht e ot mss he mk etey d utte y out o tue ot your cotestt

S O E S : hve o obey Potahus. A yoe ot ejo dut th ethe. ut dd eay ad tuly oube you y

59 The s plesues d (s ccus tmes 27 32C 30 38B9 wc], 2 wic, 49A) awas w si ci kai pas"pas a pasus cus t s st s wt t u t ka w s a a c wt ka a A t st apas ad pasurs s t "pasus a pas as s t t ut "pa adpas ad " as nd an a ec cd wt kai seen ims

60 "Muthpece s rs nl n ntepete dne messes nd sns61 "miss mak i i ad md nos wd vv ania


28/85

2 Ph

ag olny (a l p w I wa j bng p layl wn I ak o wa gn n an knowe beong ?

P R T A R H U S

es Socaes asoluyS R A T S Ye s easy A l he wse ae n consonance on onn ealy and uly makn hemelves auus n sayn ha fos he kn o f heaven and eah mnd And ehas hey seakwll ' ak you an a one nvesaon of he gl.

P R T A R H U S pak hoeve yo an an a or lng oradon ake u s no accoun . ou on' ncu ou enmy

S R A T S ou u eaufully ank you es make some so

of sa y asn he folon eson R T A R U S ha?S C R A T S : r w o a r roar a powr o rra

ona an rano arrrl apazarpr allg an oall wol r on onrary us as oseefoe us used o say mnd and ome aman houh aanesand os huhou

P R T A R H S ou amae me Socaes. heye no o he same or 62 alrna yo now ak o appar o e o be no

n oly; o ar a mn arrang an orr al o ms wory o he sh o he cosmos he sun he moon he sasand he ene o [ of he sky and I fo one would neve seakohese aou hem o even have a deen onon.

2A S R A E S : o yo wan n or s oo o onr an agr wo for a o a bl w no only pak w of or wo r alo jon n angrand shae he lame wheneve a cleve and ele man says hahs s no he way s t t' n so

R A R H U S Of ouse I would wan oS C R A T S : o n obr aon abou hese hns ha

now ong on for a aP R A R H U S js seak A S Now he elemn ha ocen he au e of e odes

o al anmaswe suey cach sh of e wae a an hoe cagh n a so s ay and " ae n he cooson.

6 T x Ng f t I ' kd, wc ui Pcu l j ci ibiy y m ordr" dos no prhas qu convy what on s namy, Thre's nong o hsio; b s iia Min B

6 Rar n s l y lis for s Sors k jok o o u, ar an rnds ha l sors sor h


29/85

s 9

R O A R u s idd. t rst ss wr ray ad tuy augt a tor o ppxty

E : Co tn n t a of a of t ting aong ,

a a of t to b of t foowng nd R O A R C H S Wat i a [ s f aals] f t aong us s

sa ary i o way tatd to ay r a wtot tpowr wort y o t natur. a o an onv t a aboua Fr for xap i ur aong u, an it in t wo aw .

R O A R H U S W o ors

S C R E S : h amo s s soi sa wa ad atry u tat [r i t wol is amazi i s astss aty advy owr ta pran to r

R O A R Wat yo ay i vr tr. R A S : An wat o ti? Do t r of t wo g nor

is y t r ao s ad os o to o anas or o t orary os r urs an a o alloh anals t ad oi al s ro m it

R O A R C H S : Now your asig a qe o tat o not vn -

rv an anwr. O R A E Rigt . o ay t a , I upt, about t ar in D

aials r a t art i t wo a iwis aot al totr lts asd aot a littl wil ao s tis t way yol aswr

R O A R C H S Wo woud awr orw an ovouyaty and oun?

O R A : rtty nary no o watovr. B o aong aolow t t oit i ord ot w ataly i a o

o o all mts w s ow n w w s tt otr ito o

R O A R C H S W o ors . O R A E : T n ta t a abo ut tt r g bfor an

w p a of t a a o o n t a n u y it ut b bo y,ig t otr as s ot o a tig

R O A R C H S : Wat yo say is ost rit S O C R A E S Wl i ral os t ody aog s t rtrd

ro a oy or tat ody and vrytng t a an a a

gh an an he u Lan ah! he je e he cnra eween herer h he w ch arch ha u aeae an he r u we areamar w


30/85

0 Phu

l k n n hy gt nrrrm h y mng

P T A H U S n h cr, nhr n h n rv k

S A T S Wh h cy rv o k? rh l y y

P A S y h S A T S h aa y h h y ng h ?P A S a sa s S A T E S rm h, my r rrh i k i, n h

y h h r n c nl, h t h hn

l l or b l vr w R T A r Sor ro owhr whr S A S h c, rrc, ry n hn h

B t -t t n an ns as s n aa s n spping in hhing mng n nn crr xrci n, nwh h bod l d d ohr dr n n rn h n cr h l hnm mnir m n nry, lhg h

sa ns a n s an tr s i as ana ss al an nan hn as n n nhm h nr h l n hnr hn 4

R T A R H Wl wold o l b w rob R A T : h f w r o h wl wold b r for

o y, n ging lng h h rr ccn, h hr r s a a n saan niv nmi in h an a sa sfa an n f an a s s prng vr h , rrng n rrnin yr, n, n mnh,d o ok o o l wdo n d

P A H U Y d , m yS A T S h r n mn nvr c

tt s6

64 Eihr h x is corrup bw "hose four ad ha his, o y a taodia aaouo Soaes ops what hd ended to sa a ss o te osmaa as aus o sou amog us. Te at ta s e spee oes aeav o s pe-Soa osoog suggess at te aaouo a stad

65 Coar pst 249a67: Do w sak o bot o [ ad e) as

i i i ha wh rly is] y w sal y tha i has h i sou? AsoTimaeus 30 h dirJ h disov o h bas is of co ha o f aualy visib is o idlss wor as a wol woud vr b o auifu ta wol wh ad a tu 's iossi o m o e se agapar o so ul


31/85

u 3

R R C S No wo' c R T E S ou wi ay a o coun o h o of he

ue ee omes o n h are o Zu a o a kgly a hmn s kny n ee e een beaufu hng n eren[god] oeer s er o eac f he o be soken of

R O R H S : Yes neeRAES no beliee e rar, h ae oke

hi eeh a i ai a o o uo u a i a al oho w ere ong go n aay rle h whoe

PROTARCHUS : s n y.SORAES : o a ued an nse o y on nve an

h o

e o h ens o h nur o h ok of a he ae o all ig; a a he ae a oe of oror o urey hae by w o ar

P O T A H S Iee I ae i a ery aeqaely a ye wawr h yu had ven he ane

socRATS e ean f Poachu a ayfune o raxa on o eon

RARCS A beutf n RAES o e, my omrae j a i a bee mae airy 1 A

ear y u o wa geu n belog a wh ow oeOTAHS Ye , f coue .SOCRA S lkee e enus of eaue c o gh o

o O A H S eeS O A S Te e remember i oo ou em boh ha i

w o u an rey y o gnus b ea nf un m e an d f he enu n an of e f es no ve

r e bgnnng me o en.ROTARCHU : W r o ou no S O A S he e i he hi We hae o ee wha eah

o i r i o n o wha xrn o h air coo henee oe o be. eure. J a e eed andu o ue enu s o o e mu emne ese

66 nste gous ts Dss cectin the mnscts nd the ent nectttn scs n the eches) he the nntellle w ou.

enss "m e Wte Pctns ncenn Plt Amr Joul of lology68 4 2534 nte t th Dss cectn ccete the hse ou stgo4 s b rsntd s ou s ou (Md s n s srt ndSrts rrk t t ynss t rst dsssn w ts v rn rrnc


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32 Philebus

an apar rom pan we wod never e ae to test easue aeua nd pu o te toture

PROTARCHS We f thats the route we must take ets take tSOCRATES Dos it atuay aear to you a t oes to me aout i

geness?C P ROTARCHU S What?

SO CRAS As a ar an and easre aea to me to come to eb naue n omo geus

PROTACHS : But de Socates em us of te commo. cof t afooned do you wat o make cear?

SO CR T ES : You surprie me ut t w e doe to the est of my

al

.

ROTACUS : Tnk you yo pt t beatySOCRATES e ts ear y te wo "como just wa

we were spean o as trd o te ourPRTRH : Do yo mean what you were eang of afte te

nlmed and t n whc yo were ttn ealth an I -pect, armony?

D SOCRATS : Yo put t ost beautfy But ow ay te osest pos-s to a appy yo

PROTACUS jus spakSOCRATS W I 'm seakig o ess of te dissoluto of -

re when te harmony n anas i dovng and te siuaneos enesis o pans at hat time-

PROTARCHus You 'r spakng vey esoaySOCRAT S Tn t as to e state bey a as qucky as pos

out ey gea ates67we ta ature s eing ttec togeher agan and returnig to t own natue, w ave toeak o he n n beng o ease.

E PROARCHS : Aho h I ect, Socrate that you are eakngrg se e s try to spea of tese same pos t orevivdly

SOCAT S Sur 's easst to coceve a thk of te popuar aonsous tng.

PRTRCUS : Wc s?SCRAT S Just as hnr s surey a ssouto and a pan-PROTARCUS YesSOCRATS So g eomg a flng up oce moe s a pea-

sure6

67 . Of th nintn instancs of th wor " grats (megistos), his is the ony ontranslat as an atv, ahoh s almos aways ossbl to do so.

68. Coma Arstot EN 1 1 73b7-2 : "Thy say tha pain a naual cncyand peasure a reg; but these are cororel efects. If peasre s a nara rein,


33/85

hle

PRTARCS : Y SOCRATS: n r n rn crrn n n n

r h r h r h r n gn nnur rn n lnxrnc ckng n; h nr gvng c n cl ng su

PR OTA R C U : Y cr SOC RA E S : l h nnurl rng h nml l y

s n ll l y k f s r ng nd n sm l s sr d osrr h sh n mr n n yr y

hchv n clm h r n c ch Byng br h cm y nr h nm nm 69 hvr cr h crrn n b hgn o n ngh s ck lsr l

P R T R U S L I sms o m h s rm n

S O C RA : l hn n rnc r kn r h n n c n n

P R T R hv n nS R S ll hn s o f s

ns s n lgg o h u slf d r s xc h ln ng n ln nkng r cnnc n hv xc r nhng rghnng n nl

P R T R U S n wh s frm dlogs s slf hroh r ss fls d

RA S : Y nn rghly c n h ncnn xrnc n n r ( hy r g n hy vrly ccr h ny xr h ch-rs r wl l m v n m nn l w s s wl s wm n mrdr hv gv hs wlm sm r

hn h n w h n d p dy nhh h n n p d hr n , n d

69 (pers) n Of -n

n per n P wny- n Pheb; n pndpetode 250. ny h n n Pmene; h h n nd h In h Phle vn hnn pd y dy nd


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4

f he afeeie geea si a i he cae f h ac a eveyhig f he ki e ha chei a eac

peaue i a ti a a th t t wece th e tht thh ey ae t ee ae ie we se e ccai acce e tf e gs

P O A : Wha yu say is ig Wha i w eig puse e pu a a pepexiy sewha ag hese ie.

E S O A S : Fit t es k yti k a i f thsee eay a uy s tht whe ai ae i cpe ee is p a we hey ae eig ee ty

ee is pese e e eec wa ii ee u e e i each aia we i ges i he sae whic i isei ee cupe ese ay exee cse aeippy y i a spea hee acuay a eie ecesiya evey ai a a ie eie e i ay ai a a akey easue ge sa

O S : e s a ecesiy33 S O A S : he a ispsii f i ki i u hi ess b e-

y he ispii f he e w ejy ha ey he i-

psi e e w i s i pai O A S : y f cuseS O A S : e he hw yu eagees i i i

hi ipii f view he juge easue i a sa hig wehe we eee i u if yuwa es g hugh e ie pi a i igh e eii

O A S ay wa iS O A S : w tht thi d i th way th

hfuess eig ve i h i wayB O A : e e way f eihe ejyig eig i

pS A S : e e eas is ha wa uy ae a ha ti

e cis iv tht h wh ch th ig ugues e a t e yt t aehe gea a

O A S wa s iee s e i i s wyS O A S :

i his wee s i wu e hs he sa apeps ee hig sage if i i th divi iv O S : s uike a y ae ith t ic h

cayS O A S : Of cue i uikey i i useey a ay ae we


35/85

hebus

r of m occurs Bu mor o oinou on n nhr rn n

y n r cn r r ch r P T H S : ou s mos riy. A T S s o scs of sus c r

syn s o sou s n c n s ny s com o hrogh r

R O T A R H S S O C R A E S ry r hr

n i's onc mor ro snsion oo s o r

n o oy n o y ns ou m roin o com vn o us n som y or or.

PR O A R y n DS O R A T E S n h crr rnc

v on ch ccn r unch n h r h grou o sou n v i unc u incs o ou o s u n oscon n m s c su n comon o c o o

R O A R H U S v n on S O C R A T E S y h r nr lnhnn h

h n g hrgh h, n uw lnhnn oos rincs o o rou o s cuy sn mo ry

P T A H S : f cours E A E S W h, n n n 'm yng h

n nrn llhn h g rg-ln lh r rgln h rur mmory n

s no y com o in is no in son of. o ssr som o is occurn o ic nr is no s y como s s rn isn i

RA RC U : Wy cr S O R A T S hn chng h n R O A R H U S S A S ns of sou i s n of unrns n

vr i is unc y osciions of oy nm 3 r no cn forgfns nsnsiiviy nh.

R O A R C H U S J urS O C R A T S n h hch cc n cn n ng rnc

n in j o mn sou n f you o in rnnm is moion snsion" you ou no sin imroy.


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36 hl

ROARCU S Wat you say is most tru.SOCRA S Do w unerstand by now what w want to ca snsa

ton?ROARCUS Wy of corse.SOCRA S Well, ten, sould one say that mmoy is the presrva

ton of snsato n, tn aoding o my opnon at ast on woulde speang rgtly.

ROARCUS Ys, rigtlyS O A S n't we tual se o olleton as g dint

mem ?ROARCU S Peraps

SOCRA S snt ts te ncROARCS atSOCRA S W s uel s pak th su as thn recocting wnvr

e eet e ee e ' s

ROARCUS Ys, o corsSOCRA S urtr, whnr t ss a r, wt t

of a ssaton or a mattr an, a ane n ts ans aad ot o t, we l spa o al of these too as rolc

O A H S u SOCRA And wy xctly s ll t ben stated It's tsROARCS WatSOCRA S n orr that n s ss r thr mt ras

peasue of t soul, and along with t sr, part rom boy, as e e B e ee o e mde oe e u ee

OARCUS

Wel, tn , ocrat s, t's spa of what followsatr tSOCRA S t's nssary, t sms, n xanng t enss a

ue ad ee ape it hs, 1 t sea at great length, o now e e u ee. e d t wee e t me e

ROARCUS Wl, te, lt's onsdr We'll lose nothng

0 nuspts dd t t d "nd s n t d

kins f tn sb st is wn n sn stn llssmhn s pti if n hs fttn tht sin f sm ti. sn s hn n ss h pn m f mhin n s smthn s th is hn n ss pint im shn n s th f whi it s n

w "sp mo ud n bf t bu t ds n sup n n t u


37/85

Philebus 37

s o c RA S : No no, Protarchus we' lose ths a east once w ndwa we're ow seekng we' ose or perpt ao ese ehgs

R O A R C U S Yor arry s adrt o et' ty to ay what h nxrr bsne

S O C R A E S r' ay j ha hr hrt a may Ers o the knd r certa sre?

P ROTARCHU S Yes eacls ocRA S : Wen we adres sch very drent tgs wth a sngle

ame what n e word s that am th w lo aACS: y Zs cras ' ay rha ay a

he am w hav ay s ocRA S Let's rsume rom here and take t u oce more rom

the sae tinsP ROARCHU S ro weeS ORAT S We surey say o svera occasons e s hrsty" ?RO A C US : cur .SO A ES n ' my" R OA S y c.S C RA S h hrs s actualy a esre?

R O AR C H U S Yes o rk S R A T E S drk r th g dr? 35A O A C H U S l I sc ll sAES e whvr f s mty esrs t sms h

corary o wha he s xrcg, or n eg emy he oe ed

OACH S es ost paiS C R A E S Wha a the oe who s my to g w?72 he

h c h fm b hr by s

a r by mry mh h r c h re tm nr r xrec n the a

P OARCHUS : ow coud eS R A E S But stl wo s dsrn desrs soehg e say R OA R U S curssOCRAES: af a j a rc a

h' drn. r a h s ems; ad e dsr f-lmen

P OTACH S esSO ATES o soe ate a o the ings o e hirs us

e ouch soe sse or hr wth metR OA S : I ' cary

72. Ts s ftn traslatd t on who is epty for t rst tim "


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38

S O S : Nw ts possle that t e the o f su sep.

O : Ye O S : Then the nl hng f o e in ouch wih uen

a al t su an la f what es t st e t

O H S : P neal nthn ese. O : Do we hn unersn wh he resu has en fo u

thse arguens O : WhtS O S : hs a uet rs enis tha sie s o oy O H :

ow O : eause it rea h he e of ey ania is aws conar o i eeriene.

O H : Inee.S O S : t puls hat leas n the ctn ontay t

ps se aes la tat th s e thnsa t t epns

O U S : O couse.D : hen he rguen which roe ha i he er

h ea owar he hings eire ree h he ise es a inat i inp he ania as whe beong in tet t sul.

O H S : Most rihl. O S : hen the auen nies that in ay wa u boy

hiss hunger r eerience anything he in O : os rue.S O : Lts ae ne fthe eon on ths sam ponts. t

aas at t aunt wats t a la t us that a

ta sps e s a n these e tsE O : n what thns? Wht n of a lf a u pontg

oS O : In geting geting e an eerhing con

cerne wih he eseraion n erucion of nia n whn- a us gts nle n her o the an epeiecs paina a tes a th hans .

O S : These thngs ae O :

What abou when one is in h ie o he O H : w o you en in h e"S O : hough he s in pin on acou of the expeene i

s t pasat thns an wee th t u he


39/85

u

woud s fro th pin, ut h is not yt d. Wht out tht t i r w to ssrt or r w to dny tht h is ddof is prins 3

T S L r it, rS O T S h hly n n r nymn T S : Nt th lr by Z b h prinin so

dou pin in trs o th ody in t ours of is prin,nd in s o sou y rtn onn of pton .

ow id you , rorus t dounss of tpn rnt hr tuy tis whn on of us, in in pty, n n ln h r llmn n hr m n

h nrry n hP U S Y n T Dont you think, tn, tt in hopn to fud h

ros y s rrin, ut n n t s pyh is in pin

P T U S t nyS T S hn h m hmn bng n ll hr nml r

in pn nd ro siutnousy. s pro

Wt out wn, n n pty h s no op oivin funt Woudnt th dou prin of p ins ly r h m hi h y gh gh nn b ngly bl

T S r r t's thn us tis nvsiton o tos prns s

oows. ow O T S r y h h n n lr r r r

l r h r r n so not?P O T U S hw, r l lr r n b l? T E S But how, rorhus , woud rs tru or fs , or

pttions ru or ot, or opinions tru or s O S pinons, y wod sy ond t n tr cs, D

b r h r nS A T S Wh yr lm rbbl n ny r

ng up m rly mll gmn

73 I he las clase, th ascps ead hese es, Badha deeedes

74 S double," e . double wout quacato s at to coe Sorate'la o dol oun ad ml .


40/85

s

R C Wt yu y tueS C R A T E S We if te rument i s rorte in lit of wt s

oe before O son of tt

one s to consder t R A R C S Yes ers te C R Wl n w o im l or let

ng ese whor teye en t t ws pt 76

R T R C H S t S C R A E S S te me A comete d ontuus mement s

ws hed me s r bout the sme erleites we jus nowpropo ow o yo p r plr l n om l

s re y ?77 R A R C H S Yes ow oud tey e?S C R A S en neiter rem nor wke s you ssert eiter

ts of des s nor ocsns o dstto s tere yoew ever mes he ej ys t s ot eny i y wy yo n mgn n but no n p7

R R C l o or suo l o ts o S C R A E S s tuly t the? O su we emne wheter

tis s s oke of rty or o t?

R A R C H S We must eme t s for oe wou y C R n lets e ple etemt d sm

non o w i now ng bo p s n opnon oopn ry omhng for

R A R C H YS C R A T E S Ad t o tke esure? R A R C H S YesS C R A T E S : And furter t w i s oed s so so meth

75 h h t th w t o otch ' th owc; oh o ooi ctou c to oi c to lto pk t lt o uccictly T t poiiity i t ot plui

76 "To ii irein i itly "t o o, o i i o o " oo t "llo, kirein co to ii ii ot t 6, Soct icott ociti t uliit wit plu; ut ook t 1 7 low.

Rth th otchu to thtowl"A o pl oth toct o th c tc m o th oh o tht ot chu to b th t tthouht wht t o tt tu Ti i t coo c i

Pl to fo pont n to ui iculty (c Sophist 8 t iebu t o men occu i t 66

78 op Teeeu 78A t ccpt t i h t th oio l o i wicw t o cptio.


41/85

Phu

P R O R S e o c R E S w t w wa e ake l

e?P R R C H S : Ye oo o c R E S : d w d t o eade wheh t

oe ly o htly eve at e a tt t y y ?

P R O R S ? B o c R E S 't ey ae e, that wha tak eae

eae whee t ake leae hy o hty ve e t l te t a t ey tuy tak lue

P R O R H S

e S O R E S w wol ae a uuuee 9 bt e ateze oly by tt alhou eay ad y ha ae o h o o o o heitkn aue a on in o we ave o eaie t

P R R C S : W ave to ee o c R E S e y lly ay w v t a a

ut v au t y b bu boe

ea kdP R R C H S : YeS O R E S be a wt al e t a

b u y w tya t t e e o et ? D whave to e a aeee about oo

R R C S : eayS C R S ' o a a a o ee h a ea at he a a

e kd t e a we d that a ad au

vy b t a eP R O R U S by D o c R E : wke otu o ddt o ay

oe o th we' ae th the ae, ta a o boeked ad ae be wk

P R O R U S y S O R y

y te? all w k t t a he d y e a eue

R H S : ' eeay

79 a taslat t hii w apat f ts da ans "t a fnd r "t l.


42/85

4 Ph

S O A T S d f h hg p mk, m one areeh th pn h error and nt rht an t t nnhtl ethe?

R T R S ele ul t be?S O A S d wh h w dt an t nvlve-

m wh h f whh h p, errr r rapsr rrr, ha e pp gh" gd" r any f h f m

T R S l t mble that leae ll be ner

S T S n et t e l a leaue ten e t be

nt th rht nn b ut th alehP R O A R S : ur e t de n a tuatn tha t kn ate

38A w ek f h pn f t hat , n ne ld everaddre h p tf f

S S el rah e eaerl dn the eeh leaure n

O T A R U S : , eakjt h t pkn.S O A T S : D h p, m md, whh wh ght

p d wh wdg , d o u fm th a

ht ten t n ea u th fhd an n-ane?

R T H S t' lel at an ate hat the eene nt a. o c R A T : g d tk k at th d h pa O T A R u : Ta h d whv gh fr S T S eadn then h fw dtn R U S here?S R T S nn e a ale u but thee al te O A R S : h S O A S : d, w w syng w, p d p f

n wh m , m nd ae pnn R O T A R S : us R T S In't t the ae that nn and the attemt t ee

an nn80 me t b e n eah a ut me-r an enatn?

R O T A S : ddS O R A S : D e y v h, th e are

the fw tat abut them

80 "o ece amo oos s dadxazen, w oes o t occu esewe ao o a othe Attc autho t t seems to e moee o dieidenai, "to kow ddkm "to sti es


43/85

Phu 43

P ROAR S htSORA S Wo yo say t soeone, o seng at stc

tgs that r ot very pany cgt sg o, ofte coceves t

wih to k jget o t y thigs h is s eowhm

ROTAR S J wo sy SO.s oc RA S T wo h ftr tis o hs ow pt qsto to

hse ike hisP ROAR S Lk wts cR S ht te w, th, is tht iti sti y D

the s te" y thi tht he t y

tme cht sight o so ap itios o this i e wo say thsto seP ROAR S Wy of cors.soc RATE S And fterwr, wo somo ke tht ctay say to

hs s h we swerg, I t is a a ei," y ky hit t the tt

P OAC S or sr.S O RA S An ght e, n tr, trown o corse prps a ,

te s tk ef tht wt s bg see eow s th wor

o s sheheds, ere, S tte"P R R CHU S : s, cetiy.S CR S wee see ese y his s h iht, tti E

wht e sta ted to hise to so , oc or utter thse vrytgs to the ystder, n, s t e tt, wht we were th c-ng opno hs ecoe ts wy speec?81

P ROAR S hy of corse.SC RE S S t si , i t we o we t

thik this s e thi to ise, h goes o e ti

with t hi se.P R O T A R S Ys, of cose.ocRA S hat th Does t ty ppea to yo s it oes to

e ot thmP R R CU S htS C R E S I thi tht s t tt time eses i

ok.P ROARC S HowS RA S t ppers to tht tose xperences tht ar vove 39A

wt eo ry a sesatios , o the occaso of th coicdc of

81 . oma re the denitons of thought oinion nd speech in the Sopit 263D-2A.


44/85

P

or sstos, co prtt cos t tht tm to rts t wr pc our soul hvr th k of xrc s rtg tru tg , t rsult u fro t s t cogto g o tru opo d tru spcs, d wr tcrtr wo w t o wt us ho s of ts dwrt fl ts, t th cotr to th tru rlt

B R T R H O cours thk o, ccpt t s forutRE cct wl othr k o crftm ou

souls wo cos to t tt tP A C U o? E S ptr, 8 wo, tr t scrtry of or spcs,83

pt [rt] o tm t soul.PR R C U ow xct r w k o whSRES Wvr oo, fro sht or o rt

ssto, thrs wht s t o s, a ohow or otr s sl t gs of th thg oc od s pok o r dost t c to us?

P T A C U s, xctlyCES 't t t c tt t of tr oo

cs r t ru, tho of th fl fls

PACH : bolut l S C A h w sd ts rgtly, lts go o to x ts

frtr ot tr csP R A C H U t?RATE Wthr t cssr or s to xrc t k of

th out th th tht r t ths tht v , b utot bout t t tht r o o b

P T A C H o, o , t s t s or ll ts lk D SC AT st t sttd t prous ccout tt t plsurs

d s troug t sol tslf, pror to t plss d psthrou th oy, woul rst co to b, t rs t or s stt tr s t occurrc of tctor ot d tctor bout futur tm?

P T A C H U Most truS C A T Ar te r tg ltrs d ptgs, th, wh jus t

E ltt l o t ow s bco u, bout t ps ta t pt tm, ut ot ot t futr

PARH s, xct

2 Pnr" apo r o " bu z roz w o o ur.

rr" amma w ammaeu j bo o-n w rb o wr ap


45/85

hu

T E y tlly e y extly" tht ll these epes ete t te e eefte tt we t tgt ete lfe e lwys fll f hpe s?

T es ltelys T E : he e eses wh h w ee s we he

fw s we T t? R A st pus g ll wys s e tlly

e t te gs T y f se A T E S : t wh f ths e

he ty he ty t h R R H U f se R T tll ee e s we wee sy st w s

fl f y hpes H S : hy ts : he e e e peehes eh whh we e

the e pes" R R H U : Yes R E As well s pite pptis? Ad e fte sees

e f ld t eself te y p leses f t?A tl e hes sht f eel e efe ese f ey eself exeel

hy t B R E Ae we t sy e tt te tgs [wtgs f

tse w e g e set efe te f the st pt s teese hey e e t the gds t f te t ts ey the r e we e

A e ee t T E he f the t plesues e peset pt gs

less t tey e sely flse R R H y f se R e wke the fte e e flse pleses t te

h es e e te T A s ht t ees y T E thee e the t the peset gets

flse pleses te sls egs tey e hwee

84 h lamt o th av ll a pa allo t to e tak alo ithea to the o t i the aallel ave aoltel paapa i ocatt etio mt ta ith a, it i ae to ke th mmt t miht make that , f the at ha itite oec t ocat etio a Potah ae a almot at th act t f the ialo


46/85

mittos of the true pleasres th more auhale reslts, andpis lkeise

P R T R H : here are R T : Wasn' agrd hn ha o r y a uy op e

los o yoe ho s vr opnng at all, ut somms s nofo ths tht re s ot for thns th have ee d ts ot forhe his tht i l e

R O T R H S ureD R T E S : d t as areed as el I sspe, th these ths i

producng a fas opnon a a m aso poduc h ac oopg asy sn ha o

P

s. T Wha hn? Musn' gv ack n urn o h pans and

plesres the orrespodn odtionhe oe of e fue past , d peset ses of atipatory eoymet pstnjoymn d prsn njomn

P T R H U : o T Tha as poss for anon who rocs n any ay

t all ad qite rdom o rejoc a all mes realy ad ruy, u mes , hoever to rej oe ot a this th are ay more ha

hs t hve ee a perhps mos ofe ad repetedy hs hat ar nvr gong o happn

P R U : I's ncssary ocras a hs oo cass T Thn mus n' sam spch " ngs o h kn ar

also sometmes fase ppy o occasons of fear, s of rae, adeveyth o the kd

P R T R : es of orse T Wha aou hs? Can w spak of ckd opns as

povn to e so n an ohr ay tha y h r om ng fas6P R T R H U : I o other ayS R S : y more th e oeive o plesres ether I suspet,

s ed y he y eep y ther ei false.4 P R O T R S : o no ts ite the rry of ha yo hve sd

oras On woud sarcy s don kd pans and pasursas cos o asood u as ocdn h a drn and vaswckdnss o gra sz.

5 In e Gek e se e nneg esen ee s sm hesengs w s gene gmmy y esnng nn n nses esen enjmen ee s n se ngs

86 e nss ve n g e we nns s e engse Ses wee gng n e sh n ese sees mss n s se eee n g


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Philebus 47

o A W, th, i th par us st thn we sh , ws s ss , ss ; s sass d ay d cm t b s , Bw us t praps fr th sees ugmnts .

P OTAHU N t we wi , , tat is , t ar. C R A T E W, rtachus, thy a n y p a ast, a as

as hs pn s d s, s su mssb usd .

P OTAHU Bautu. o AT E Lt's g an, k przhtrs, stan t t t

aanst ts argunt PROTARHU : L ' s .soRE S : l, sad us m,

mb sld dss r s, Cd at tha m has ud apart ad stans sepaat rmt e s u w ng n t rp it s experences.

P OAH W rmmr, an t was stat er.SO RES : Was h m ds h ds cntary h

e s, d m s sm ase

ccu a erc h dy OA HU Ys, t was.O AE n gure ut wat urs n tse xpernes.P OAH Sak.soRE S : , th, whr s cds d, pas nd D

sus cm s as sms,, as js w cm , s cs [as dpa] snsatns smut anu ars rav t ne anthr

P OAH t appars s at an at.O A as't ths t n sa an st dw r as a cm-

m rmt by us RO RHU : hSO RES : b hs pa , d asu, c h m

an ss, an as a par h g t th unm thngsP OAH t as en sa. W?o AT : What psst s thr that ths thngs jug

hy

RO R S : h EsoRE S : h s scs s k d

a jugmet tm, an ne wants n ac ccas t scrna amn thmpa n compars wh pasur, pa n cm-as wh pa, d as cmpasn wth easuand


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4 hleu

ee wi em in masn w ne ane s gge,w ess , an wi s m ess exeme.

P T A H S

We, ese ngs ae s knd, and ee s skn wis a jdgmenA T Wa n In e as f sig, des e a f seeng

magnides a a dsane s p make ans andmake us ne ase, in e ase pains and easues, aa , s same ing es n ?

P R T A H S , n, Saes, is mu me ae R T Nw s as pved e nar wa appned

a e wie ag

R O R : Wa d man O R E : Ag a a me se false and r p inins, n

ey u, wee aeed ine e ans and ea ses a ese te th h epeene the -

P R T A H U S s ue. O R E : nw e peases and pains n i wn as

ei asinal ans a n sed a a disan sup, and a e same im e a in lad side sd, eeasues aea ae an me exeme n mpisn e

n , n e ns n n eause ey e seen mpsnw peases unde nay em

R O R I s a nss a ins is knd u n a-n

S A T E S en e egee ains pases seeaape eae an e ae ess, wen y away is aa

en t pt ee (a 's n te pat tha s) 't sa ta i s aeang g, an me an n urn u w nsef sa f e pa peas and pan a exnds ia i s mn and u

P R O R : N indeed, I nS C R A T E S e, en ne n e w' se wee n e w

n wy we e ass ea sues n ans, wi aea a aen anma s, a a ase a s eae egee n s

R R i ind xa, and d man R E : Su i as en sa a us as n au

ea is eng uped djunns and njnns -

gs ptgs en nese n ecesespas , suegs , s esses , 8 n eeyn th es ts k ee ean enes

87 Ots u too a t d o Pbu 2


49/85

hilebus 49

R T R : Y, t s ee ote tated.SO CRATE S : S n trn enever tee s a estrng t ter n

ntre we ccet r eve tis n restrain e-

re. Rg t . Bt t bout rerd the ody n f these

s s ocr n ns to s R Ad e od tt be Socrte?oC RT T ts t at all t te pint Ptacs te qestin E

nw e.P ROAR CHU S : W exacty? C R T E :

ece o're ot prevetg e ro s yo mquesto oce ore R R CU : Wc o c S : Rgae f etr t kn of tng u nt

ccur Prtarcus a a at necar reut fr tfr u

R RH o mea te ody s o t mov eter drecto

C E : jst S.

P R O A R C S : Wat's at least clea s ts cates: nete eenr n pa ever ce t be in s te ts in

S O C R AT S : Y s peak st bea ty Bt I ssect at y rea 4Ae s t tt t 's s ecer or sometg o thesethig to ea s, or, s the e asert, al tgs re as own up d do [topstrv]

P R O A R CH S Indeed, t d sa s, n ter nt tgt f asspeaking n an a y.

S O C R AT S : H cl tey? Uness tey ae sal temslves?

t I t to ge ot ro er tep de ro t rumettts rt tord us. So I tk f ee t ts drec-to, ou o me y g

P ROTR Cu s : In wat drectn? D te . o R AT We, ten, et a t e "Le t be s. B [P

tc ] ns e heer n e ce te experences n B esoled begs te e exerecng e s aays aare l o te t ' ot te cse tt e re ure o our ogrot d oer exerece te knd, or ' erel t ecntry.

41C, 2 5A [twice]); nd he la, odun, ocur only tic (here n a SIA al-houg n he m h of h Phaedrus i occr v ims


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0 hlus

P R O T A R C U S Se i's all o e ona. We ae almos enelnw o eveing of e ind

S O C RA E S : Well , e pesen aemen he up an own o-cuc o cgs podcs ps d psus, s o u sd us .

P R O T A R C S o of ouse.C OAE S : wil e moe eauifull saed as follow a e e

su o ss O T S owS O S "Gt chgs pis d psus o us,

msud d sm os so ct h w "

O A H U S I ' oe i in i wa Soaes an oeS O S en i i i o e ie u ow poen o wou eone moe.

O S hhS O S hh we wee syg ws pess d wthut oys . 8P O T A R C H W ou sa is os

D S O S O i ai e' e own o ouee ee ie onepeas an one painu and one nee.89 O ow wo o peaout ?

O S N y d e wy th ths , the s h.S O S he t e p wud ee e the sm s t

ejo O A U S ow old i?SO S en wenee o e o e one' ene lie a-

lessl is e eaanes o al " wa do ou sup poe a pesn lieht s syg h me?

O S I pps to ht hs syg th ot to b pis ps.

Km s) s nd s n ta and ds nt ru n Pa ths wh aumnt s Rpb 55 and n pat ula 5a:

"Ho th t o to v ghty tht ot to at o ot tojo ? I o y So th ot ft t t t tht tm t oo th th f mo th th tan o th (pm) o ht th tuth pasuut ts a k nd nantnt. ' a t last th aunt ndats' h sad thn' sa, k at p asus tat a n pans , st prhaps u t t tmmnt at ths s t wa t s natu tha pasu s h ssa tn f pa n and pano Wh am t k? h n what knds man?' huht oth I t y yo g to thk o th - o oo To o ho ot y o th y ovya a o th ssatn thy v hn n pan

90 hs s th s un th supat f "pasant n th da supat f "pa nul ds nt u n


51/85

Phle 1

A he us t as i the case a thee u wat s u thee de that we ay use e eautiu aes set dw

e a g ne a ive, and the tid a neithe tee R O A R a A I a a r , , a a w

wl e eer f he e, gld r ilver A C We hw cud t o A the midd e e afte a i t' s cmty wth c

re pee hud i e poe a eite peaat painu,w n rigl, n ine t nr nf rig, uld n a i

P R O A R C H S : Hw u i ? o A Bt st ad a my cade we ae awae [peceive 44A

that peoplesay this ad opneit .P R O A R H S : deed A : D n r g a a wn

'r n in aP R O T A R C S : he a SO a a rae o e A he the d eiee they'e eyg at the tme

tey sey d't e ying s thewse

P R O A R C H : I ' pae R A Sl, ' inig a hg a r enn,

if nature f e airn e i pain and nj apa P O T A R C H es it wa agee t was apat. o A e we t chse these thgs us t e thee as the

wee u st w, tw as pa s ad huma eigs, s the Beeae m pain ti ve tig in eing g, i e aeeda laa

R O A R w xal ar w ng aed i rl,ate ? I nt unetad

o A hats ecase y 't udestad thse wh a e eayad ty the eemes hs hee tachus

R O A R C H U S W d a e ar?RA : h ae f a ve ev hen i me t

the thig aut atue 1 a te en hee ae peaue atgethe.

P A C H What ae the the? O C A

hey say that wat the ice hes w ca peare are a ig fm pain C

9 t sms ossb tat lvr means h t ad tat t tns abotae ees ot to an osmolo bt to t ow ate the tasla to wold te hey ae spoke o as ve ey n th ate


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5 hl

P R O A R S A u adviig u, Sa, g ang i e

S O R A E S u advi i o a divi f a kid

divii ot by a t t by a ta vso o a ot go na-tu hy hav a vtat ad ssv hatd o th po o asu ad ma ta ts og sod so a o i vaaiv f i p aur u an an.

D once u ve conidered e r f er revlon well92u gt a e f n gad; ad afr a ha a I i a u au, a n wvxamd the pe plau o th ass t a au-

, a id i f ud. R O A H A d sues t [wat yu say s rg] .SO AE S e lets f te steps , a f ey wee alles on

a i n vu. I u a a as, fo soma abov I shod t

s th au f ay s s htsovth atu of th ha , xampod om to a 9 ustadg t sould look wy f eveyng ee nd concenre erde s t se tat ae a acta at em n n

f adn " u a, u as if were aswerm, as ts pvis o [ d ti ad to dg )

O T A S : s of ous ad I t thm that ust oo totgs a a magud

S O R A E S en if ud wat gu f p ease aA wel , w nure t as we ud t tu ur aze on ratal

au u h ald p ad x O T u : vyo oud o od ths to yo .T , th asus that a ady at had, ad tat a

aso th gatst o as at ty atuay, a ommoyay oe f e body?

O A H S Of rS O R A E S Ae and d tey becoe ga fr arng

92. Rv h) i dd r d b wux y dv i (Ooms 3 1 33 I h d ppy apoia), i i a a hu i uhs a g asa smahng s I oow M Sh("W i ukh Po Pbu 44af" Musum Hvcum 2 1971) : 220) puy o ho ha o d hv" di"i i igh 66) bu hu i vw Sc i i Siu

3 B" i i G / wc i d b" w i i c wi vb i dd c 5A


53/85

Phl

r r e ea e be auu, e e aepeu a ume oe a aoe ap e a e a B

O A : s s ke. R A Wa o e dss pdng em ove

eae, s pass spass all er?R T R U e , ue S R E S e, e eve a oe au e p ee

k, e r a ve moe, a eveee aume eeee u e o, ' e epn a f on e v ndnss o a ga

n an nv ga pass n ng dO a e dn a ue? R R C H S e, e, o a ae, appea o R T E S a e u e a a ee aoe o a

ee e eae peaue, e pee e eman o ah nss d vdn pagg ak s n v I av m, a maskng ee e ereme ejoe me a e eal,u uppoe m eek e aue eue, ee

e oo e e ea me e k u e mu, e a oeve o a aue aa e sa ass a alg s n

R O A R W m p na og agn O A E : Soo, Pas n ad and song

a. u ae o ou ee eae peaue u omea e, eee e e e moeo e meae e u u a peak

O A R : We, ndsan ha ' sang, and -

ee, e vng h pova spe gs g o mu db ks mda a -ao, a e e u a aaee e eee a a eee peue ae oe o e o ep o mae a make em o e oou a oeou4

O R A E : a And s s s n s a smkdnss f s an h bd n n v a e gaspeaue a e a e eae pa ome e

R R C H S oue

94. Pbo as w as b ak ab s a as a ass say as a a su a ar


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4 ileu

S T E S : We uld the che e f tee ad u ayty wee t eatet exae hat way they ae that.

T t' a ecety.S T S xa the the pleue f th llw kd

lle wat way ty aeP T S Wch leS T E S : e p leau te dcet le w ch te we

pk a th peeh hate t peectP T S Wch pleaue ?S T E S : e cu f tch exaple by ubb ad

yt f the kd that a eed a deet kd

edy expeece! b y the d what the ld ae wet ay t he t a u? lau pa?P T S t lk at ay ate cat a th a e that

ccu a xtu. S T S t wa't ply f bu' ake tat I eed up th

aumet wthut te peaue tacu ad the thatce a wt te w wuld caly e be abe they aet caut t t aae a dc what w beuht c ad all .

T h w hae t adace aat th aue ak ttm.

S T E S u a plaue tat ae t xtue?P T S : u .S T S Wel te xtu ae te f te bdy

de a l ad e bel t he ul tl ad ae the lad w'l d tu the cae pa the ul ad he bdytat te xtue wt plea bth tte ae called ais pss ti pa

P T S w?S T S Whee ay expeece ultaeuy ctay

exec tat cupt e acll e ett wa ad ue heat e etecled k I upect t ha e ad et d th ttheae eeal u t xd tate bttwett

tul at t i cau uutly a aae tat te

T S

What w be a d ey tue S e't e xtue th kd eal

5 3 ,2 wttt lukuk) u t t dct S- ttw kgluku, t tt


55/85

u

pains an easues an sme ave me f ne kin an ee?

PROT A R S : use.RAT S : e say f sme weneve ais pve e me an

te pleasures-theyare te painsof itcing wejust now soke ofan e ais a ine and hwheneve in e as wihinhee is a seei an an inamma in and ne des n e a iy un an sain u ne manaes n sead i n esuae an y

xposig

hem a imes e a scotrary

a E es ue ewiemen as ey nsay ae nes ni-n, e su a imes iesiae easues an a imes,

wen e in s n e usie a i a na eain e paswihi,

say a an s ae n a end wi easues in su a wayta hieve ie in ey iniey e vo t issui e hs he me ehe seaae hs 47ey se as se y se h easues

P R O T A R C H U S Ms ue. A S And weneve, n un me leasue s mie

og t r

huuall

as f iskind

e sueius mixue f aikes a aes ne siy iiae wie e a me t n-

sive in i peasue eses e p ad asi makes u m an n pu a ss s a ss ees-sis an a ss f sis wks in w uessnes s ueismay an sells f suin

P R O T A R C H S : s ineed R A T E S

Ad

he eih in hese peasues, my mae maese eaim au nese, "I am y" a i n ess maes ae say he same a . 99 A e eee ha e is n

9 "Bld (kannum) rst os t drt rom "mix mgnm asmuc as " ld s rmry u sd o a stabl xt, ptclarly watr ad w,w "m ud an a o ct ad sxa trcurs ld smt fut m 6 n

7 tt ts assag t ct d atou t als clar, o

cano

codt tat t dtals ar xcty rt t accout c o-par ocra s dcpto t soul's wt o

wings t Padrs : " solas a w

ee hes

at ts t ad trbs otly, ad ts lk t xrc ottw t t r ut rw, ts a tato ad dtrss rud tus t t s th ta t t ou of to srut w as rcd

t th and and tl w rw t wn98 h th ur a at ccurc f rema wc ca ad gna

trodud as t cutart to slwdr.99 Cmar tus . K "ts most plast to d wl ma

o as ty sy omsus dd


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5 hl

a e n an e ugss n s aseyaways gng a em as gats las andns n w is aways vin in tm t mst e an eas

P R T A R From e n view e any as ye ll e oseqenes n i

R A es or u ey e e a I ea wie a sus n mn xins e y se wene is a endn sfa an ntnal xns as fs in wi sul ni ts tings ntay yan stsilansy agains leas and as agains ans as

me tge in sng en aug w ddsea evisy s ases wn n is emy and dses -ng an n ng n es ag in eng emy ne es

D an sil we di n a at te a wness is n t wsay nw: Wen s is a dds wi y n all s ns-aly many asns a snge u ain an ease sneay."

P R A R Yore ay seaing s yS O R A T E S : Wel n we s ave ne e mxs ain and

las l.P O A C U S : Wi ne d y saySORAT E S : We'e seaing a in lnng ta s y -

s n as w seP R T A R S Hw eay ae w seang s vey in?

SOC AT S : Ang a lng ing dg s emlain nvy a-sy and evyng t nn' y atay s dwn as ain ains e su y sl

P R O T A R H S : es I

1 D (h a o wo o co o f u ua o of f f o o o wou a b ph u pnh amo uvy ovoa po o a o a om o-vy ay abou o o mou a odou a av o a mou en ph m/ a o wo ya wo v -c o ua f 1 86 Lw 700B Aa a aatz h a a c of o coa o ym o ay o o

1 1 ca 1 a of o boo of Ao Rh 13872-1388b8 co a daw bw vy phhn) a muao z cf of w a muou a dd a a a ood o ao o a vou a ood ou o ao ao ou a d owv a o o maad ay au, aa lu ua jaou (cf Symum 13D w oa u o zpa hh o cb Aa oc ao o


57/85

Ph 57

S R S Is n' i h cas a w'll d m fl f dscrablps rs r d w av rcll,

"w et even te ver we t nernd r weeer t drn ne

d plasrs mid wi pis in dirgs and lgings ? R T R S , b s wn hy ccr ld rn is

way an rws c R E S : y emembe as e tagi specaces he pepe

w a sam ime as ey ae eiig? R O R f crs S R T S

And d acal kow h dspsi f r sli dis ha hr s lso in hm a mxr f pin d psr

P R T R C S : I sca cey cceie h

S C R T E S : sn s rrcs, 's asuely easy t rs a ch ccasn r s n i prc f hiskd

R T R S I oks m a n r a i 's [s S O R E hn l's k i p al mr, h dr h is

e bscue i de h e y be abe udestad meeasy he mxtue f pai ad peasue he a ses

R R S ms sp ak S R T r is, o o, m " i ws s nw

ondw o s own s som n s, r ow R T R S I a wa c R S : u si te eius i cme ight as taig peaue

n he eis hs egbs R T R S s cy CS R T S gnran 3 fhrmr, is bad ad ondiin w

spak f as fosnss R O T R f crsRE w n s ass lk a e al ad see w

ar s R R S s sakS R Ag r is ondiin n gn is cld

2 . Te otaton fom Aie ee to mote Tet n I 8 8

19 e mant ntepoate te ae in t of ange and age in te t ne oft e otaton fom ome

3 Bot ee and ate te manpt av not goane gn bt foz w atog it t bette wt fatone oe no ead a nata tooate akng of te e ignoant a o gnoun s ous


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5 i/es

"wedess, hee as blons to wedess t tty nxrnc a s th contry o th on okn b th ttr in

Dhi.PRT RCHS Do o n Socr Know th"?D S R T E S o. Now it' cr tht it contrr ho it

be s pe wg wu e o ow hysel n ayway. "

P R T A R C H S Why o cor.S C R T E S r rotrch to ct ti r thin in thrP R T A R C H U S : How o yo mn on't b b.S O C R A T E S Ar yo sayg tht I mt ow v t?

ACHUS am sayn ad besdes sayg I begg yoCRATES : s a ncit in th c of tho who o not knowemseves th vr to xrinc thi kin o xrinc e hee ways?

P T A R H U S How?E SRAT S Frt a ont of mon to on tht they' richr

thn ey ae ems thr own btnc. P R T A R C H S Thr ae, a ny r mny who hv thi kin of

exnce.

S R T E S Bt thr r tll mor who oin thy'r tr n ortl n ct th boy th biv th r - wa h ae trth.

POAS ue .S A S t by a he ms, I suse ae n e ead to

he d spees e exeee sus t e ty r bttr in oint o rt thoh thy r not.

P R T R C U S Y xct.49 SCRTES d th c of th irt ont th jority

uh heye u eusess ad ase sem-wdom aua y u a am wido a cl gards ?

P R O A R C H U S r th dS C R T E S lthouh o n wo b iht to tht ry xrinc

of t in bP R T A H U S ExctlyS OA e mus mae a fue ds aus,

ad dve e we ee he evy bysh fu, we

ae g on o s a sage mxe easue ad a 1 The wo o "wea s aso e wo o beng5 "e en o os un s k The ajece k o b

translated quay w y "bosh a y pyfu ; e auness of en ees ot om it taks i Aistopac comy, i wich t is o ot so somthghaacsi of oys (f 65)


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Philes 9

P R O A C H : H d y ean it that e are t t it in t RA E S : Jst as n t e ase f a hman beins sn't it st ne

essar y te ase fr a tse ttessy n ths kind s pi ut theseves that strength d w g gwi sm tm an it se sset the tay

P R O T A C S t's a nessyRA E S : e ten divde it y ths and f y asser tat a f

te h are f ts knd bt t eakness and f te areaged at are naabe f takn revene are te aae andridis y' e ttern te trth; bt f y speak f thsew r f taing vg d are strn as rigg d C

atef yu e rendrn t yrsef a mst rre

plato philebus literal translation by seth benardete

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