police integrity commission - abc · < 1> mr king: commissioner, could i tender a number of...

EDITED TRANSCRIPT Dated Edited: 01/06/07

POLICE INTEGRITY COMMISSION

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

Hearing: Operation Mallard

Before Commissioner Pritchard

Held at Level 3, St James Centre, Elizabeth Street, Sydney

On Friday, 1 June 2007 at 10.05am

(Day 3)

WITNESS INDEX

Gavin Kendall WOOD 172 Adam Michael PURCELL 178

.1/6/07 (3) P-170 Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions

THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN EDITED IN ACCORDANCE WITH NON-PUBLICATION ORDERS MADE ON 30 & 31 MAY 2007

& 1 JUNE 2007


< 1> MR KING: Commissioner, could I tender a number of things. < 2> I note that Mr Simpson is not here, but I understand there < 3> is no further problem in respect of MAL13. Mr Simpson < 4> raised yesterday -- < 5> < 6> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, in relation to the transcript. < 7> Thank you for that. < 8> < 9> MR KING: So that is available. Nothing has been raised <10> in respect of MAL12, so that is now available as well. <11> <12> THE COMMISSIONER: So the private hearing evidence of <13> MAL12 and MAL13 - I will deal firstly with MAL12. We don't <14> have any barcode? <15> <16> MR KING: We gave both of those yesterday. They are <17> already exhibits. <18> <19> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, they are already exhibits, sorry. <20> <21> MR KING: They haven't been distributed. <22> <23> THE COMMISSIONER: No, yesterday they were marked as <24> exhibit 13B for MAL12 and 14B for MAL13. To the extent <25> that they were admitted with a restriction, they can now be <26> admitted as public exhibits. <27> <28> MR KING: Then otherwise I tender the evidence of <29> Mr Purcell from 27 April 2007, barcode 6952648 to <30> barcode 6952683. <31> <32> THE COMMISSIONER: That evidence can be admitted and <33> marked as exhibit 15. <34> <35> EXHIBIT #15 TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE OF MR PURCELL TAKEN IN <36> PRIVATE HEARING ON 27/4/2007, BARCODED 6952648-6952683 <37> <38> MR KING: Further I tender the evidence of Alison Brazel <39> from 26 April 2007, barcode 6983389 to 6983404. <40> <41> THE COMMISSIONER: That private hearing transcript, <42> barcoded 6983389 to 6983440 of Alison Brazel of 26 April <43> 2007 can be admitted and marked exhibit 16. <44> <45> EXHIBIT #16 TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE OF ALISON BRAZEL TAKEN <46> IN PRIVATE HEARING ON 26/4/2007, BARCODED 6983389-6983404 <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-171 Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> MR KING: I tender the evidence of Joseph Doueihi from < 3> 26 April 2007, barcode 6983405 to 6983422. < 4> < 5> THE COMMISSIONER: The private evidence of Mr Doueihi of < 6> 26 April 2007, barcoded 6983405 to 6983422 can be admitted < 7> and marked exhibit 17 < 8> < 9> EXHIBIT #17 TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE OF JOSEPH DOUEIHI <10> TAKEN IN PRIVATE HEARING ON 26/4/2007, <11> BARCODED 6983405-6983422 <12> <13> MR KING: I further tender the transcript of the evidence <14> of Paul Dunstan on 27 April 2007, barcode 6952575 to <15> barcode 6952586. <16> <17> THE COMMISSIONER: That private hearing transcript, <18> 6952575 to 6952586 can be admitted and marked exhibit 18. <19> <20> EXHIBIT #18 TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE OF PAUL DUNSTAN TAKEN IN <21> PRIVATE HEARING ON 27/4/2007, BARCODED 6952575-6952586 <22> <23> MR KING: Lastly, Commissioner, I tender the transcript of <24> the evidence of Peter Bishop from 26 April 2007, barcode <25> 6952684 to barcode 6952699. <26> <27> THE COMMISSIONER: The private evidence of Mr Bishop of 26 <28> April 2007, 6952684 to 6952699 can be admitted and marked <29> exhibit 19. <30> <31> EXHIBIT #19 TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE OF PETER BISHOP TAKEN IN <32> PRIVATE HEARING ON 26/4/2007, BARCODED 6952684-6952699 <33> <34> MR KING: I could indicate that in respect of some of <35> those last tenders there has been some editing of the <36> transcript. I call Gavin Wood. <37> <38> <GAVIN KENDALL WOOD, sworn: [10.15am] <39> <40> MR SHAW: Commissioner, Inspector Wood objects to giving <41> this evidence and I, accordingly, would seek the usual <42> direction under section 41 of the Act. <43> <44> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Shaw. <45> <46> MR SHAW: If the Commission pleases. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-172 G K WOOD Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> THE COMMISSIONER: Q. Can I just get your full name, < 2> rank and station, thanks, Mr Wood? < 3> A. Gavin Kendall Wood. I'm a detective inspector of < 4> police, currently attached to the regional enforcement < 5> squad at Surry Hills. < 6> < 7> Q. Mr Wood, there are a few matters I need to bring to < 8> your attention before you give your evidence, so if you < 9> just listen carefully to what I have to say. You need to <10> understand that you must answer all questions that are <11> asked of you here, unless I tell you that you do not have <12> to answer. You should also understand that you are <13> entitled to object to giving an answer. If you do object, <14> you must, nevertheless, give the answer, but the answer you <15> give is not admissible in evidence against you in any civil <16> or criminal proceedings, except: firstly, a prosecution <17> for giving false or misleading evidence at a hearing of the <18> Commission that you knew to be false or misleading in a <19> material particular; secondly, a prosecution for an offence <20> which you may have committed or you may commit under the <21> legislation governing this Commission; and, thirdly, for <22> proceedings for contempt of the Commission under that <23> legislation. <24> <25> As you are also a serving police officer, I need to <26> add the following: the evidence you give here can also be <27> used where the Commissioner of Police is deciding whether <28> or not to make an order under section 173 of the Police Act <29> in relation to allegations of misconduct or unsatisfactory <30> performance; or under section 181D of the Police Act for <31> your summary removal as a police officer; or under section <32> 183A of that Act for revocation of a promotional <33> appointment because of misconduct in obtaining the <34> promotion; and in any proceedings for review of such orders <35> mentioned above. Now, to avoid the need for you to object <36> to answering each question when it is asked, as Mr Shaw has <37> indicated, I am able to make a declaration that all the <38> answers you give shall be regarded as having been given on <39> objection. I understand that is the order you seek; is <40> that right? <41> A. Yes. <42> <43> THE COMMISSIONER: I make a declaration pursuant to <44> section 41 of the PIC Act that all answers given by this <45> witness will be regarded as having been given on objection <46> by the witness. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-173 G K WOOD Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> <EXAMINATION BY MR KING: < 2> < 3> MR KING: Q. Mr Wood, could you just briefly explain < 4> what your role and the duration of your role was in respect < 5> of this particular investigation? < 6> A. My role, sir, was an independent officer for a search < 7> warrant relating to the premises of one of the people whose < 8> names have been suppressed here. I went with the < 9> detectives to the house. I met the detectives at the house <10> of that relative person and I acted as an independent <11> officer throughout the whole search warrant process. <12> Certain evidence was located at that particular house and <13> that is my extent of this investigation in terms of my - in <14> totality, my involvement. <15> <16> Q. How long have you known Adam Purcell for? <17> A. A significant part of my service - 10, 15 years. Ten <18> years at least. <19> <20> Q. How would you describe your relationship, as you <21> understood it, over that period? <22> A. Oh, good. I regard him as a good mate. <23> <24> Q. There's been some evidence about the State of Origin. <25> When did you first become involved in the State of Origin? <26> A. About three years ago was the first Origin series that <27> I was involved in. <28> <29> Q. Was that in 2004? <30> A. I think it was 2004, yes, sir. This is the third year <31> we've done the Origin, and I became involved in <32> that - well, basically the first part of the involvement <33> was actually being involved in the Origin itself. We'd had <34> a meeting with coaches and management prior to that, and <35> then straight into the Origin. <36> <37> Q. Were you involved in it before Mr Purcell? <38> A. No, we both went in together. <39> <40> Q. At the same time? <41> A. Yes. <42> <43> Q. Did you have to make an approach to someone to become <44> involved, or did they approach you, or what? <45> A. Oh, no, they approached me. <46> <47> Q. When, approximately, was that? .1/6/07 (3) P-174 G K WOOD (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> A. Well, it was months before we actually went into camp. < 2> I could find out exactly, if I could check records. < 3> < 4> Q. I'm just looking for the approximate time? < 5> A. Approximately, I'd suggest three - at least three < 6> months. Possibly more, four months. < 7> < 8> Q. When did you go into camp? < 9> A. We went into camp - it would have been - well, there <10> was the Origin two weeks ago. Three years - nearly three <11> years to today. So around about the later part of May. <12> <13> Q. In what year? <14> A. 2004. <15> <16> THE COMMISSIONER: Q. So this will be your fourth year, <17> would it? <18> A. No, this is the third year. <19> <20> Q. Third year? <21> A. Yep. <22> <23> Q. So you didn't do 2004, did you? <24> A. Sorry, you're right. It's 2005, sorry. 2005. <25> <26> MR KING: Q. So can I take it from that that it was <27> either late 2004 or early 2005? <28> A. Correct, yes. <29> <30> Q. You were here yesterday and heard some tape-recorded <31> conversations being played between Mr Purcell and another <32> officer? <33> A. Yes, sir. <34> <35> Q. In the course of that, there was some suggestion by <36> Mr Purcell that you were deliberately not returning his <37> phone calls at a time after he had received his notice to <38> attend here. Was there any particular reason why you were <39> not returning his phone calls then? <40> A. Well, there was, sir. It was because I didn't want to <41> speak about the matter. I was actually with my commander <42> at the time when Adam rang me, Superintendent Mick Fuller, <43> and Mr Fuller said, "Look, don't compromise yourself. Just <44> stay away" - not specifically Adam. "Don't speak" - just <45> said, "Don't get involved in anything until you've given <46> evidence". <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-175 G K WOOD (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Q. Had you also at that time received a notice, a < 2> summons? < 3> A. Yeah, I think I did. If I hadn't received it then, it < 4> was very - in close proximity. < 5> < 6> Q. Now, you heard in one of the recorded conversations < 7> yesterday Mr Purcell suggesting that you may have taken < 8> some money and also that you were close to the wind. Do < 9> you have any comment to make on the proposition that you <10> may have taken some money in relation to this particular <11> investigation? <12> A. Yes, I do. <13> <14> Q. What is that comment? <15> A. Sir, there is nothing further from the truth. As <16> probably you're well aware, sir, that was reported on the <17> front page of the Sydney Morning Herald this morning, which <18> obviously is devastating to me and the family - my family <19> and friends, and it is nothing further from the truth. I <20> don't even know the victim. I have never met the victim of <21> this particular matter. <22> <23> Q. Did you recently attend a camp for the State of Origin <24> together with Mr Purcell? <25> A. Yes, sir. <26> <27> Q. Was there any approach made to you at that time by <28> Mr Purcell in respect of asking you to approach <29> Ricky Stuart? <30> A. Not that I can recall, no. In what context is that? <31> <32> Q. To talk to Mr Stuart about what he might recall of his <33> meeting with Mr Purcell at Rushcutters Bay? <34> A. Look, I don't recall. We spoke about the matters in <35> general. Ricky's name may well have come up, but I don't <36> recall that specific proposal, what you put to me. <37> <38> MR KING: That is the evidence. <39> <40> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr King. Mr Shaw, do you <41> have any questions? <42> <43> MR SHAW: I don't have any questions of the inspector, <44> Mr Commissioner. <45> <46> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Shaw. Mr King, if you <47> don't require Mr Wood any further at all, I'm wondering .1/6/07 (3) P-176 G K WOOD (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> whether it is an opportunity now for anyone else who may < 2> want to ask Mr Wood any questions. Mr Willis? < 3> < 4> MR WILLIS: Just briefly, Commissioner. < 5> < 6> <EXAMINATION BY MR WILLIS: < 7> < 8> MR WILLIS: Q. Mr Wood, just in relation to any < 9> conversation that you might have had with Mr Purcell in <10> relation to Mr Stuart, do you recall a specific <11> conversation in relation to Mr Stuart or not? <12> A. No, I don't. That's what I said, sir; I don't. <13> <14> Q. But you do recall that his name came up in general <15> terms in conversations that you had with Mr Purcell? <16> A. I said it may have. <17> <18> Q. It may have? <19> A. Yeah. <20> <21> MR WILLIS: I have nothing further, thank you. <22> <23> THE COMMISSIONER: Anyone else? Can Mr Wood be <24> discharged, Mr King? <25> <26> MR KING: Yes. <27> <28> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Wood. <29> <30> THE WITNESS: Thank you. <31> <32> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you for your patience over the <33> last three days. You can consider yourself discharged from <34> the summons that brought you here. If we do need to bring <35> you back here, in the unlikely event, we can arrange <36> another summons for you. <37> <38> THE WITNESS: Thank you. <39> <40> <THE WITNESS WITHDREW <41> <42> MR SHAW: Commissioner, I have spoken to Mr King and I <43> think there will be no more matters that touch upon my <44> client. I'm wondering if, in such circumstances, I can be <45> excused at this juncture? <46> <47> THE COMMISSIONER: Certainly, Mr Shaw. .1/6/07 (3) P-177 G K WOOD (Mr Willis) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> MR SHAW: I'm obliged. < 3> < 4> MR KING: I recall Mr Purcell. < 5> < 6> <ADAM MICHAEL PURCELL, on former oath: [10.25am] < 7> < 8> <EXAMINATION BY MR KING: < 9> <10> MR KING: Commissioner, I would like to play a call to <11> Mr Purcell. It is 14 March 2007 at 13:26:50. It is <12> barcode 6956551 and the edited transcript of that call is <13> 6956513 to 6956514. <14> <15> THE COMMISSIONER: The call can be marked and admitted as <16> exhibit 20. The transcript barcode 6956513 to 6956514, <17> that is an edited transcript, and that can be admitted as <18> exhibit 21. <19> <20> EXHIBIT #20 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 14/3/2007 AT 13:26:50, <21> BARCODED 6956551 <22> <23> EXHIBIT #21 EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <24> 14/3/2007 AT 13:26:50, BARCODED 6956513-6956514 <25> <26> THE COMMISSIONER: Q. Is your screen working, <27> Mr Purcell? <28> A. Yes, it is, sir. <29> <30> MR KING: I should indicate, Commissioner, it has been <31> edited to remove the name of a suspected offender. <32> <33> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <34> <35> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, can you recognise your voice <36> and that of a friend of yours, Michelle Roberts? <37> A. Yes. <38> <39> Q. You were arranging for a contact to be made with you <40> by her husband? <41> A. Yes. <42> <43> Q. Who is also a -- <44> A. Ex-husband. <45> <46> Q. Her ex-husband, sorry? <47> A. Yes. .1/6/07 (3) P-178 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> Q. Who is also a good friend of yours? < 3> A. No, not good friend. I didn't have his phone number. < 4> < 5> Q. Well, he was a friend of your first wife's and yours < 6> at the time you were married to your now ex-wife? < 7> A. Yes. Yes, he was. < 8> < 9> Q. You were concerned about having a conversation with <10> him because the phones might have been off? <11> A. No. <12> <13> Q. Why did you suggest to her: <14> 15 ... I don't know whether, you know, phones <16> are off or whatever and as I said ... I've <17> just got to play a very straight bat ... <18> <19> A. I didn't want her to alert Quenten as to why I wanted <20> to speak to him. <21> <22> Q. Really? <23> A. Yes. <24> <25> Q. You told her: <26> 27 ... this is for your information and don't <28> tell Quenten over the phone, but I can tell <29> you. [Someone's] been sacked up at <30> [somewhere] and the Fraud Squad are <31> involved. <32> <33> A. As I said, I didn't want her telling him that. <34> <35> Q. Over the phone? <36> A. Well, she wasn't going to - she's not living with him. <37> That was the only contact she'd have with him. <38> <39> Q. But you didn't want her to speak over the phone <40> because you had a suspicion that his phone might be off, <41> didn't you? <42> A. No. <43> <44> Q. Because of an investigation -- <45> A. No. <46> <47> Q. -- that you thought may have gone back to a time at .1/6/07 (3) P-179 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> which he may have been involved? < 2> A. No. < 3> < 4> Q. And you were arranging to give Quenten Roberts the < 5> heads-up? < 6> A. No. And in actual fact, the fraud squad weren't < 7> involved in it, nor were the police at that stage. < 8> < 9> Q. We will come to that in due course. <10> A. Okay. <11> <12> Q. But at this stage you understood the fraud squad were <13> involved, didn't you? <14> A. No. I told her that. <15> <16> Q. You were, in those circumstances, arranging for him to <17> contact you but to only talk about football jumpers or <18> something like that, so that you could arrange to actually <19> meet him in person; correct? <20> A. Correct. <21> <22> Q. Because you were concerned that his phone might have <23> been intercepted? <24> A. No. Not at all. <25> <26> MR KING: Could we play the next call, 14 March 2007 at <27> 15:47:44, barcode 6956550. The edited transcript is <28> barcode 6956497 to 6956502. <29> <30> THE COMMISSIONER: The call itself, barcode 6956550, can <31> be marked and admitted as exhibit 22. <32> <33> EXHIBIT #22 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 14/3/2007 AT 15:47:44, <34> BARCODED 6956550 <35> <36> THE COMMISSIONER: The edited transcript of the call, <37> barcoded 6956497 to 6956502 can be marked and admitted as <38> exhibit 23. <39> <40> EXHIBIT #23 EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <41> 14/3/2007 AT 15:47:44, BARCODED 6956497-6956502 <42> <43> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <44> <45> MR KING: Q. Now, Mr Purcell, was that you talking with <46> a Mr Quenten Roberts? <47> A. Yes, it was. .1/6/07 (3) P-180 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> Q. Mr Quenten Roberts was not a police officer? < 3> A. No. < 4> < 5> Q. He was a civilian? < 6> A. Yes. < 7> < 8> Q. Who had worked at the particular hotel in relation to < 9> which the alleged fraud was being investigated? <10> A. Some years prior. <11> <12> Q. Yes. And you were concerned that the investigation <13> might reach back as far as the time when he was there; <14> correct? <15> A. Yes. <16> <17> Q. That's why you didn't want to speak to him on the <18> telephone about this matter when you first raised it with <19> his ex-wife? <20> A. No. <21> <22> Q. You suspected that Mr Roberts may have, in the past, <23> been involved in such a fraud, didn't you? <24> A. No, not at all. <25> <26> Q. You were trying to contact him at the time when you <27> spoke to his ex-wife in order to give him the heads-up in <28> advance of him being contacted in respect of any possible <29> investigation? <30> A. No, I wasn't. What I was intending to do was to find <31> out whether he had any information about the actual offence <32> itself. <33> <34> Q. I see. You didn't actually ask him that, did you? <35> A. Well, no. <36> <37> Q. No. All you did was -- <38> A. I did -- <39> <40> Q. -- to tell him your position had changed? <41> A. Well, it wasn't being investigated by police. <42> <43> Q. Yes, you were concerned that it was being investigated <44> by the fraud squad and not your local command; correct? <45> A. No, and that's why I was wanting to gather information <46> for it. But after - when it became apparent that the <47> management down there didn't want any police action, well, .1/6/07 (3) P-181 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> that was the end of my inquiries with it. < 2> < 3> Q. By what authority did you release this information < 4> about the person who was suspected to Mr Roberts, a < 5> civilian? < 6> A. Well, in the light of the fact that I wanted him to be < 7> able to tell me anything about the offence or anything that < 8> he may have known about the suspected person in his < 9> dealings at the pub. <10> <11> Q. At the time that you arranged with his wife for him to <12> ring you and to talk about football jerseys -- <13> A. Yes. <14> <15> Q. -- you weren't part of the investigation, were you? <16> A. Well, it was within my command. <17> <18> Q. Yes, but it was, as far as you understood, with the <19> fraud squad? <20> A. And I made inquiries to see where it was. <21> <22> Q. Yes, but you didn't know that at the time when you <23> spoke to her, did you? <24> A. It mattered little to me whether it was the fraud <25> squad or Hurstville detectives looking at it. It was a <26> police matter. <27> <28> Q. You were contacting him at a time when you thought it <29> may have involved him as an offender, weren't you? <30> A. No, definitely not. <31> <32> Q. You didn't actually have a very high opinion of his <33> integrity, did you? <34> A. I don't have any comment on his integrity. <35> <36> Q. Really? Some months before this event, you were aware <37> that Mr Roberts had approached a senior police officer in <38> order to obtain, the night before your ex-wife was to take <39> part in the process of interview for a higher job within <40> the police force -- <41> A. Yes. <42> <43> Q. -- to ask that officer for the questions that your <44> ex-wife would be asked the following day? <45> A. I'm fully aware of that inquiry, yes. <46> <47> Q. That was Mr Roberts. You were aware that it was him .1/6/07 (3) P-182 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> that had done so? < 2> A. Yes. < 3> < 4> Q. He not being a police officer, arranging to meet a < 5> senior serving officer to ask him for the questions? < 6> A. Yes. I'm fully aware of that. < 7> < 8> Q. You contacted the officer in charge of the < 9> investigation in relation to that matter some six weeks <10> before this particular call that I played you, didn't you? <11> A. I'm not sure whether - are you talking about <12> Inspector Lee? <13> <14> Q. Yes. <15> A. I'm not sure whether I contacted him or he contacted <16> me, but I -- <17> <18> Q. Well, either way -- <19> A. Either way, yes -- <20> <21> Q. -- you were in contact with him? <22> A. We certainly had a conversation, yes. <23> <24> Q. And during the course of the call with him you said to <25> him: <26> <27> Quenten thought, oh, I'll do the right <28> thing and go and see him under the <29> Good Chums Act, totally oblivious to what, <30> what can happen and ah, then come, but he's <31> never been in the cops and he just thought <32> he was doing, 'cause mate he is a wheeler <33> dealer. He, he, he try, you know, he, he, <34> he's into everything he shouldn't be. <35> That's right, he's a rorter. So he just <36> thinks that's how the cops work. <37> <38> A. Yeah, I'd -- <39> <40> Q. Is that your opinion of Mr Roberts? <41> A. He certainly works in an industry where those sorts of <42> things occur, but - and that was entirely my opinion when I <43> spoke to Inspector Lee. <44> <45> Q. And that was your opinion of Mr Roberts when you spoke <46> to Mr Lee? <47> A. Yes, yes. .1/6/07 (3) P-183 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> Q. This was the man you were trying to contact through < 3> his ex-wife about an investigation in which you believed < 4> the fraud squad were involved? < 5> A. Correct. Well, wouldn't you agree -- < 6> < 7> Q. It was a heads-up, wasn't it? < 8> A. No. Wouldn't you agree, sir, that that would be a < 9> logical person to go to to find out any information about <10> the offence? <11> <12> Q. From the time you started to make that contact, <13> Mr Purcell, you weren't even involved in the investigation, <14> were you? <15> A. It was in my command. <16> <17> Q. You didn't find out that it was - yes, and you were <18> concerned because you hadn't heard about it except through <19> the publican? <20> A. And I was finding out about it at that time. I tasked <21> the licensing officer to find out about it and find out the <22> status of the investigation. <23> <24> MR KING: I will tender as a confidential exhibit the <25> transcript of a call - Mr Willis, of course, would need to <26> have access to it - on 31 January 2007 at 16:16:04. It is <27> barcode 6955722 to 6955726. <28> <29> THE COMMISSIONER: That is just the transcript? <30> <31> MR KING: Just the transcript. <32> <33> THE COMMISSIONER: The transcript of that call, barcode <34> 6955722 to 6955726 can be admitted and marked as <35> exhibit 24AC with access limited to Commission officers and <36> Mr Willis and Mr Purcell. <37> <38> EXHIBIT #24AC TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 31/1/2007 <39> AT 16:16:04, BARCODED 6955722-6955726 <40> <41> MR KING: Commissioner, could we play an intercepted <42> telephone call from 18 October 2006 at 15:44:51. It is <43> barcoded 6956597 and the edited transcript is 6956458 to <44> 6956466. <45> <46> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcode 6956597 can be <47> admitted and marked exhibit 25. The associated edited .1/6/07 (3) P-184 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> transcript, barcode 6956458 to 6956466 can be admitted and < 2> marked exhibit 26. < 3> < 4> EXHIBIT #25 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 18/10/2006 AT 15:44:51, < 5> BARCODED 6956597 < 6> < 7> EXHIBIT #26 ASSOCIATED EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL < 8> ON 18/10/2006 AT 15:44:51, BARCODED 6956458-6956466 < 9> <10> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <11> <12> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, was that yourself and <13> Kara Lawrence? <14> A. Yes, it was. <15> <16> Q. A journalist with the Telegraph? <17> A. Yes. <18> <19> Q. You were providing her with your opinion derived as a <20> result of the debriefing you had been asked to carry out in <21> respect of the Cronulla riots? <22> A. I was certainly giving her a personal opinion, yeah. <23> <24> Q. And your personal opinion as to the issues that were <25> relevant? <26> A. Those issues were well known. <27> <28> Q. Well, she apparently didn't know them all when you <29> spoke to her, did she? <30> A. Well, she would have been the only one in Sydney. <31> <32> Q. That was confidential information that you appreciated <33> you shouldn't have been passing on to a journalist, wasn't <34> it? <35> A. None of that was confidential. All of that was in the <36> public domain. <37> <38> MR KING: Can we go to the next call, which is 18 October <39> 2006 at 17:33:21. It is barcode 6956593 and the edited <40> transcript is 6956467 to 6956474. <41> <42> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956593 can be marked <43> and admitted as exhibit 27. <44> <45> EXHIBIT #27 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 18/10/2006 AT 17:33:21, <46> BARCODED 6956593 <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-185 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated edited transcript, < 2> barcoded 6956467 to 6956474 can be admitted and marked < 3> exhibit 28. < 4> < 5> EXHIBIT #28 ASSOCIATED EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL < 6> ON 18/10/2006 AT 17:33:21, BARCODED 6956467-6956474 < 7> < 8> (Audio played and transcript displayed) < 9> <10> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, was that again yourself and <11> Kara Lawrence? <12> A. Yes, it was. <13> <14> Q. And were you then settling with her the content of an <15> article she was to publish the following day? <16> A. I was assessing the accuracy as I knew it. <17> <18> Q. Do you still say that it was appropriate for you to <19> have released that information to her? <20> A. Yes. I had no - I wasn't privy to Hazzard's report, <21> so I couldn't comment on what his report was, but I think <22> it was in the community interests that accuracy be detailed <23> in any reports, and, really, that information that was <24> discussed in that telephone call was general knowledge. <25> <26> Q. You were leaking your opinion about the problems with <27> Cronulla because you thought it was in the community <28> interest for you to do that; is that right? <29> A. Those problems were well documented. <30> <31> Q. You didn't ask for any authority from any senior <32> officer to provide information to Ms Lawrence, did you? <33> A. I am a senior officer. <34> <35> Q. Any more senior officer? <36> A. No. <37> <38> MR KING: Could we bring up on the screen barcode 6914953 <39> and 6914954 is the following page. <40> <41> Q. Of course, between the 5.33 call on 18 October and the <42> publication of the article the following day, there were <43> some other events that occurred, but if you would look at <44> the article for me, you will see in that about two-thirds <45> of the way down the screen it refers to: <46> <47> Senior police sources also told [The .1/6/07 (3) P-186 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Herald] the report reveals a "breakdown" in < 2> communication which resulted in police < 3> failing to intercept a convoy ... < 4> < 5> That was the information you were providing to Ms Lawrence, < 6> wasn't it? < 7> A. Well, obviously I was one of many. < 8> < 9> Q. She says "senior police sources". It is a good way of <10> disguising the individual, isn't it, Mr Purcell? <11> A. How would it differ from a senior police source? How <12> would that indicate me? Indeed, that had been <13> reported - what date is that article? <14> <15> Q. It is 19 October 2006. <16> A. I can guarantee you that breakdown in communication <17> had been highlighted on several or numerous occasions <18> throughout all forms of press. It certainly wasn't <19> ground-breaking news. <20> <21> Q. Then otherwise there is further information there in <22> the document, if you care to read it, along the lines of <23> what you told her in the first telephone call. Sorry, we <24> have to scroll down to the bottom of that page? <25> A. Can you just scroll up a bit to "Scully"? Yeah, <26> that's it. <27> <28> Q. You will see at the bottom of the screen now it is <29> "The Daily Telegraph understands"? <30> A. I had no access to that report, Mr King, so I don't <31> know what - I still haven't read that report. <32> <33> Q. Mr Purcell, the comment there is: <34> <35> The Daily Telegraph understands the report <36> is not likely to ... <37> <38> It is not as to the content of the report, but as it being <39> "not likely to be as critical of the police response to the <40> Cronulla riots as the response to the Redfern or Macquarie <41> Fields riots", which is material that you discussed with <42> Ms Lawrence in the first phone call I played you? <43> A. Yes, but that was -- <44> <45> Q. If you would read on -- <46> A. Mr King, can I finish my answer? <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-187 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Q. Just read on further, would you? < 2> A. Mr King, can I just -- < 3> < 4> Q. Would you please read the rest? < 5> A. I thought you were asking me a question in relation to < 6> that. < 7> < 8> Q. Would you please just read the rest? < 9> A. Yes. <10> <11> Q. If we could go to the next barcode? <12> A. All those suggestions came from Kara Lawrence. <13> <14> Q. No, they came from you in the first -- <15> A. No. <16> <17> Q. -- the first call, Mr -- <18> A. They came from Kara Lawrence. They were general <19> knowledge. And I had no access. I have never - I never <20> have since and certainly not prior to the tabling of <21> Mr Hazzard's report have I ever read the report. <22> <23> Q. Mr Purcell, don't ignore the obvious. <24> A. I'm not ignoring the obvious -- <25> <26> Q. It is not her saying what is in the report, but what <27> is likely to be in the report -- <28> A. Well, how would I know what -- <29> <30> Q. And she is referring to all the things that you have <31> discussed with her? <32> A. Mr King, how would I know what is going to go into the <33> report. All I did -- <34> <35> Q. Because -- <36> A. All I did was correct any inaccuracies and discuss <37> what was general knowledge in the community at that time. <38> Now, I think it was fairly important that inaccuracies be <39> correct before they are published, and I had no input into <40> Mr Hazzard's report. All my job was, as I stated to <41> Kara Lawrence, was to prepare a debrief of operational <42> police, which I did. Now, the rest was general opinion <43> that was in the community anyway. So I had no input <44> whatsoever into - well, I couldn't advise Kara Lawrence <45> what was going to be in the report or not. I didn't - I <46> wasn't part of Mr Hazzard's team. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-188 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> MR KING: Could we play the next call, please, which is on < 2> 18 October 2006. Sorry, I will tender the -- < 3> < 4> THE COMMISSIONER: You want to tender that article? < 5> < 6> MR KING: Yes, the article. < 7> < 8> THE COMMISSIONER: The article barcoded 6914953 to 6914954 < 9> can be marked and admitted as exhibit 29. <10> <11> EXHIBIT #29 DAILY TELEGRAPH ARTICLE, BARCODED <12> 6914953-6914954 <13> <14> MR KING: I ask you to play a call on 18 October 2006 at <15> 17:44:46, barcoded 6956557. The transcript is 6955676 to <16> 6955677. <17> <18> THE COMMISSIONER: The call itself, barcode 6956557, can <19> be marked and admitted as exhibit 30. <20> <21> EXHIBIT #30 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 18/10/2006 AT 17:44:46, <22> BARCODED 6956557 <23> <24> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated edited transcript, <25> 6955676 to 6955677 can be marked and admitted as <26> exhibit 31. <27> <28> EXHIBIT #31 ASSOCIATED EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL <29> ON 18/10/2006 AT 17:44:46, BARCODED 6955676 TO 6955677 <30> <31> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <32> <33> MR KING: Q. That was you speaking to an officer on the <34> staff of Mr Goodwin? <35> A. Yes. <36> <37> Q. Paving the way for the article to come out the <38> following day? <39> A. Certainly giving my next-in-line commander a heads-up. <40> <41> Q. And giving him a completely false impression as to <42> what had occurred between yourself and Kara Lawrence? <43> A. No, that's incorrect. <44> <45> Q. 46 ... I said Kara I don't want to be involved <47> in this ... .1/6/07 (3) P-189 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> Where was that in either of the calls I played to you < 3> before? < 4> A. As in nothing to do with the report. But then I also < 5> said that - I also summarised some of my conversation with < 6> Kara Lawrence. < 7> < 8> Q. Yes, only the good bit, about how you corrected her on < 9> the naive assumption? <10> A. Well -- <11> <12> Q. Correct? <13> A. I also -- <14> <15> Q. Not about -- <16> A. No, actually -- <17> <18> Q. -- all the unflattering remarks you'd made about the <19> police investigation -- <20> A. No. <21> <22> Q. -- correct? <23> A. And I didn't make that - I didn't make unflattering <24> remarks. <25> <26> Q. No, you told him. <27> 28 ... I don't think it's going to be very <29> flattering for the police. <30> <31> A. Correct. <32> <33> Q. And the reason for that was because of all the things <34> you'd settled with her that had been in the article that <35> you'd told her in the first call were the problems with the <36> Cronulla riots? <37> A. They were well known in the community, Mr King, and <38> all I was doing was correcting inaccuracies. She was the <39> one putting forward what she was going to put in there and <40> I gave my next-in-line commander a heads-up. <41> <42> Q. And apparently you wanted him to think that somehow <43> Kara Lawrence had ambushed you? <44> A. Well, she did. She called me out of the blue. <45> <46> Q. When in fact you had volunteered all the information, <47> hadn't you? .1/6/07 (3) P-190 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> A. She called me - I didn't - I didn't call her. < 2> < 3> Q. Yes, well, that's not an ambush? < 4> A. Oh, well, definition of "ambush". < 5> < 6> Q. And then you settled the article with her? < 7> A. I wasn't going to stop Kara Lawrence putting in an < 8> article or not. She's her own -- < 9> <10> Q. And you were giving her the information -- <11> A. No -- <12> <13> Q. -- to put in it -- <14> A. No, what I was doing -- <15> <16> Q. -- to undermine the Police Service? <17> A. No, what I was doing was correcting inaccuracies. <18> <19> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, please, which <20> is 18 October 2006 at 18:37:58. It is barcode 6956544 and <21> the transcript is 6956475 to 6956480. <22> <23> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcode 6956544, can be <24> marked and admitted as exhibit 32. <25> <26> EXHIBIT #32 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 18/10/2006 AT 18:37:58, <27> BARCODED 6956544 <28> <29> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, 6956475 to <30> 6956480 can be admitted and marked exhibit 33. <31> <32> EXHIBIT #33 ASSOCIATED EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL <33> ON 18/10/2006 AT 18:37:58, BARCODED 6956475-6956480 <34> <35> THE COMMISSIONER: It looks like technology has defeated <36> us again. I note the time. <37> <38> MR KING: Yes, perhaps we could take the morning tea <39> adjournment. <40> <41> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, we will resume at 20 to 12. <42> <43> SHORT ADJOURNMENT <44> <45> THE COMMISSIONER: Mr McGrath, I note you are still here. <46> <47> MR McGRATH: Yes, I am, Commissioner. .1/6/07 (3) P-191 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> THE COMMISSIONER: We might be able to deal with that < 3> position now. < 4> < 5> MR McGRATH: Thank you, very much. < 6> < 7> THE COMMISSIONER: I'm not sure whether Mr Dunstan's < 8> transcript has already been tendered. < 9> <10> MR KING: It has been tendered, Commissioner. <11> <12> THE COMMISSIONER: From the private hearing, yes. <13> <14> MR KING: I'm not intending to call Mr Dunstan. The only <15> question is whether there is anyone who wishes to ask him <16> any questions. <17> <18> THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Willis? <19> <20> MR WILLIS: No questions. <21> <22> MR SPARTALIS: No questions, Commissioner. <23> <24> THE COMMISSIONER: Mr McGrath, that may be of some <25> assistance to you and Mr Dunstan, if he is here. Would you <26> thank him for his patience. He can consider himself <27> discharged from the summons that brought him here. <28> <29> MR McGRATH: Thank you, Commissioner, and if I may seek to <30> withdraw. The Commission has my contact. <31> <32> THE COMMISSIONER: Indeed. Thank you, Mr McGrath. Is <33> Mr McIlwaine still with us? <34> <35> MR KING: Yes. Mr McIlwaine did raise with me the <36> question of whether Ms Brazel needed to remain. <37> <38> MR WILLIS: I have no questions. <39> <40> MR SPARTALIS: No questions. <41> <42> MR KING: Then we can excuse Ms Brazel. <43> <44> THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Brazel, you might be able to tell <45> Mr McIlwaine that you can consider yourself discharged from <46> the summons that brought you. Thank you for your patience <47> over the last three days as well. If we do need to call .1/6/07 (3) P-192 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> you back, we can arrange for a summons, but that is < 2> probably unlikely. < 3> < 4> Mr McIlwaine, I was just explaining that Mr Willis has < 5> indicated he doesn't have any questions to ask of < 6> Ms Brazel. < 7> < 8> MR McILWAINE: Thank you. < 9> <10> THE COMMISSIONER: Mr King is not proposing to recall <11> Ms Brazel. If there is anything that you have, then <12> Ms Brazel -- <13> <14> MR McILWAINE: I don't wish to recall her. <15> <16> THE COMMISSIONER: As I have said to Ms Brazel, she can <17> consider herself discharged from the summons. Thank you, <18> Mr McIlwaine. <19> <20> MR McILWAINE: Thank you, Commissioner. <21> <22> MR KING: Technology allowing, could we play the call we <23> proposed to play just before the adjournment. <24> <25> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <26> <27> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, yourself and Mr Goodwin? <28> A. Yes. <29> <30> Q. Talking about the information and Kara Lawrence? <31> A. Yes. <32> <33> Q. And you pretending to have not been the source of the <34> information that you knew was going to be in the newspaper <35> article? <36> A. No. <37> <38> Q. You were trying to create a position where you would <39> be able to, in the future, say to Mr Goodwin, "Well, <40> obviously I wasn't the source of the information because I <41> wouldn't have rung you and told you I'd had the <42> conversation with her"; that was it, wasn't it? <43> A. No, I informed him that I had the conversation with <44> her. <45> <46> Q. You didn't inform him as to the truth of what had <47> happened, did you? .1/6/07 (3) P-193 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> A. I informed him of exactly what the conversation was < 2> about. < 3> < 4> Q. Really? < 5> A. Yes. < 6> < 7> Q. You told him false things about -- < 8> A. No. < 9> <10> Q. No? <11> A. No. <12> <13> Q. That conversation you had, you were telling him the <14> absolute truth about all of the conversations you had had <15> with Ms Lawrence, were you? <16> A. Mr King, I didn't take notes -- <17> <18> Q. Were you? <19> A. Mr King -- <20> <21> Q. Were you or not? <22> A. Mr King, I was -- <23> <24> Q. Can I just have an answer to that, please, Mr Purcell? <25> A. I was reporting on the phone call -- <26> <27> Q. Were you telling him the truth of what had transpired <28> between yourself and Ms Lawrence? <29> A. As best as I knew it at that time, yes. I didn't take <30> any notes of our conversation and nor do I think it was <31> outside the parameters of the actual conversation. <32> <33> Q. Yes, thank you. <34> <35> MR KING: Could we play, please, Commissioner, a call on <36> 4 October 2006 at 13:52:59, barcoded 6956564. The edited <37> transcript is 6956433 to 6956434. <38> <39> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956564 can be <40> admitted and marked exhibit 34. <41> <42> EXHIBIT #34 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT 13:52:59, <43> BARCODED 6956564 <44> <45> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded <46> 6956433 to 6956434, can be admitted and marked exhibit 35. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-194 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> EXHIBIT #35 ASSOCIATED EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL < 2> ON 4/10/2006 AT 13:52:59, BARCODED 6956433-6956434 < 3> < 4> MR KING: Could I just foreshadow, Commissioner, that < 5> there will be a need for some suppression orders to be made < 6> during the course of this evidence, just so that it doesn't < 7> get reported before the suppression order is made. < 8> < 9> THE COMMISSIONER: We will deal with those at the end of <10> it. <11> <12> MR KING: Yes. <13> <14> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr King. <15> <16> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <17> <18> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, yourself and Mr Robert Ovadia? <19> A. Yes. <20> <21> Q. A representative from Channel 7? <22> A. Yes. <23> <24> Q. You were then on your way to the scene and providing <25> him with the information as to where it was and what had <26> occurred? <27> A. Yes. <28> <29> Q. In what was an inquiry just commencing? <30> A. Yes. <31> <32> Q. Including details of the assault itself? <33> A. Oh, well -- <34> <35> Q. Which have been removed from the call? <36> A. Yes. <37> <38> Q. At the end of the call, you were telling him: <39> <40> Alright mate, just you, you've got the <41> scanner or whatever ... Just, if anyone <42> asks you got it off the ah, <43> <44> And you didn't want anyone to think you had been <45> responsible for the media getting there -- <46> A. No, Channel 7 getting there first. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-195 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Q. Or Channel 7 getting there first? < 2> A. Yes. < 3> < 4> Q. So you -- < 5> A. Can I add something, sir? < 6> < 7> Q. Certainly, Mr Purcell? < 8> A. Mr Ovadia has assisted in several investigations that < 9> I have done in either withholding important information <10> that would have compromised investigations that he had come <11> into receipt of, and I thought it imperative at that time <12> that we could circulate it as soon as possible so we could <13> get some community assistance. There was nothing corrupt <14> about that. <15> <16> MR KING: If we could then go to the next call, which is <17> on 4 October 2006 at 13:54:52. It is barcode 6956595 and <18> 6956435 to 6956438. <19> <20> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956595 can be <21> admitted and marked exhibit 36. <22> <23> EXHIBIT #36 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT 13:54:52, <24> BARCODED 6956595 <25> <26> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded <27> 6956435 to 6956438 can be admitted and marked exhibit 37. <28> <29> EXHIBIT #37 ASSOCIATED EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL <30> ON 4/10/2006 AT 13:54:52, BARCODED 6956435-6956438 <31> <32> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <33> <34> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was you after having given <35> the tip-off to Mr Ovadia then reporting it to the media <36> unit? <37> A. Yes. <38> <39> Q. That's the police media unit? <40> A. For the exact same reason. <41> <42> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, please, which <43> is 4 October 2006 at 14:44:48. It is barcode 6956594 and <44> the edited transcript is barcoded 6956503 to 6956504. <45> <46> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956594, can be <47> admitted and marked exhibit 38. .1/6/07 (3) P-196 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> EXHIBIT #38 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT 14:44:48, < 3> BARCODED 6956594 < 4> < 5> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded < 6> 6956503 to 6956504, can be admitted and marked exhibit 39. < 7> < 8> EXHIBIT #39 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON < 9> 4/10/2006 AT 14:44:48, BARCODED 6956503-6956504 <10> <11> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <12> <13> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, yourself and the female from <14> the media unit? <15> A. Yes. <16> <17> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, which is on <18> 4 October 2006 at 14:49:32. It is barcode 6956563. The <19> transcript is 6955825 to 6955827. <20> <21> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956563, can be <22> admitted and marked exhibit number. <23> <24> EXHIBIT #40 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT 14:49:32, <25> BARCODED 6956563 <26> <27> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded <28> 6955825 to 6955827, can be admitted and marked exhibit 41. <29> <30> EXHIBIT #41 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <31> 4/10/2006 AT 14:49:32, BARCODED 6955825-6955827 <32> <33> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <34> <35> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, yourself and the media unit <36> again? <37> A. Yes. <38> <39> MR KING: If we could play a call on 4 October 2006, at <40> 15:17:48. It is barcode 6956564. The transcript is <41> barcode 6955828. <42> <43> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, which is barcoded 6956564 can <44> be admitted and marked exhibit 42. <45> <46> EXHIBIT #42 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT 15:17:48, <47> BARCODED 6956564 .1/6/07 (3) P-197 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, which is < 3> 6955828 can be admitted and marked exhibit 43. < 4> < 5> EXHIBIT #43 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON < 6> 4/10/2006 AT 15:17:48, BARCODED 6955828 < 7> < 8> (Audio played and transcript displayed) < 9> <10> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was yourself and <11> Mr Greene, who was then the member for the local area? <12> A. Actually, it was Mr Greene and my message service. <13> <14> Q. Sorry, you speaking in the message? <15> A. Yes. <16> <17> Q. And him leaving a message for you? <18> A. Yes. <19> <20> MR KING: Then if we could go to the next call, which is <21> 4 October 2006, at 15:31:38. The barcode is 6956547 and <22> the edited transcript is 6956439 to 6956441. <23> <24> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956547, can be <25> admitted and marked exhibit 44. <26> <27> EXHIBIT #44 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT 15:31:38, <28> BARCODED 6956547 <29> <30> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded <31> 6956439 to 6956441, can be admitted and marked exhibit 45. <32> <33> EXHIBIT #45 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <34> 4/10/2006 AT 15:31:38, BARCODED 6956439 TO 6956441 <35> <36> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <37> <38> THE WITNESS: Mr King -- <39> <40> MR KING: In relation to that particular call, <41> Mr Commissioner, I think that night be an appropriate point <42> at which to make an suppression order in relation to any <43> information which might identify the xxxx, other than it <44> being within the Hurstville command area. <45> <46> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. The suburb might also be <47> somewhat - well, to be avoided as well. .1/6/07 (3) P-198 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> MR KING: Yes. < 3> < 4> THE COMMISSIONER: All right. < 5> < 6> MR KING: And also the details of what happened or was < 7> said to have happened to the alleged victims. < 8> < 9> THE COMMISSIONER: I will make the two orders. I will <10> make the first order: in accordance with the provisions of <11> section 52 of the Act I direct that the location [MAL5] and <12> the location xxxxxx, referred to in the evidence given <13> before the Commission, not be published, except in such <14> manner and to such persons as the Commission specifies. <15> <16> I will make another order in accordance with the <17> provisions of section 52 of the Act that the description of <18> the offences, if that is not too broad, mentioned in the <19> evidence given before the Commission not be published <20> except in such manner and to such persons as the Commission <21> specifies. <22> <23> MR KING: Also, Commissioner, I would ask you to suppress <24> the reference to the detail of the alleged offender having <25> said, "I know where there's a xxxxxxxxxxxx". <26> <27> THE COMMISSIONER: I will also direct, in accordance with <28> the provisions of section 52 of the Act, that the alleged <29> offender referring to a xxxxxxxxxxxx mentioned in evidence <30> given before the Commission not be published, except in <31> such manner and as to such persons as the Commission <32> specifies. <33> <34> MR KING: Q. Mr -- <35> A. Excuse me, Mr King, Mr Commissioner, I would also ask <36> that reference to the xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx also be <37> suppressed, as it is an investigative tool, an <38> investigative strategy. <39> <40> THE COMMISSIONER: Q. On a methodology basis? <41> A. Correct. <42> <43> THE COMMISSIONER: Do you want to say anything about that, <44> Mr Spartalis? <45> <46> MR SPARTALIS: I agree with that, Commissioner. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-199 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> THE COMMISSIONER: Mr King, do you have any -- < 2> < 3> MR KING: That's fine, Commissioner. < 4> < 5> THE WITNESS: Just so I'm clear, Commissioner, any details < 6> of how xx xxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxx xx xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxx < 7> xxxxx xxx xxx -- < 8> < 9> MR KING: I believe that's covered by the second order. <10> <11> THE WITNESS: Yes. I just wanted to make sure of that. <12> <13> THE COMMISSIONER: I think I have already made an order in <14> relation -- <15> <16> THE WITNESS: I don't want to cause any distress to those <17> xxx xxxxxx xxxxx. <18> <19> THE COMMISSIONER: I make a further order under <20> section 52: I hereby direct that any reference to the <21> xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx mentioned in the evidence given <22> before the Commission not be published, except in such <23> manner and to such persons as the Commission specifies. <24> <25> THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir. <26> <27> MR SPARTALIS: Sorry, Commissioner. Can I just raise <28> this: I am actually not aware where that investigation is <29> up to. I am not really in a position right now to deal <30> with it properly. Perhaps there could be a suppression <31> order until such time as I get full instructions as to the <32> state of the investigation, because it may be that we ask <33> for further information to be suppressed, but I don't know <34> at this stage. <35> <36> THE COMMISSIONER: You would also include within that, <37> Mr Spartalis, I take it, the actual calls in their <38> entirety? <39> <40> MR SPARTALIS: Yes. <41> <42> THE COMMISSIONER: Mr King, I could make -- <43> <44> MR KING: Commissioner, there has been some communication <45> in respect of this matter. It is, in fact, a current <46> investigation and, as I understand it, the senior officer <47> involved in the matter is aware of -- .1/6/07 (3) P-200 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. Mr Spartalis, that is probably < 3> something where the Commission is at a bit more of an < 4> advantage than you are -- < 5> < 6> MR SPARTALIS: That's true. < 7> < 8> THE COMMISSIONER: -- and has taken some advice in < 9> relation to this aspect. So you might have to rely on us, <10> to that extent, to ensure that the interests that you speak <11> of are in fact protected. <12> <13> MR SPARTALIS: We will do that. <14> <15> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Spartalis. <16> <17> MR KING: Q. That was yourself providing very specific <18> information and details to the member of parliament, <19> Mr Greene -- <20> A. Yes. <21> <22> Q. -- in respect of that particular matter? <23> A. Yes. <24> <25> Q. By what general authority, or any authority, do you <26> provide information of such specificity to members of <27> parliament? <28> A. He's the local member of that area. <29> <30> Q. Yes, well -- <31> A. I'm very -- <32> <33> Q. -- otherwise a citizen? <34> A. I just want to finish my answer -- <35> <36> Q. What is the authority by which you provide specific <37> information and details about a current investigation to a <38> member of parliament? <39> A. My authority of being commander of that area and I had <40> a very, very close working relationship with the local <41> member. <42> <43> MR KING: If we could go to the next call. <44> <45> THE COMMISSIONER: Just while you're doing that, Mr King, <46> for those present, perhaps the reference to [MAL5] could be <47> referred to as MAL5. .1/6/07 (3) P-201 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> MR KING: Yes. The next call is on 4 October 2006 at < 3> 17:30:17. It is barcoded 6956572. The unedited transcript < 4> is 6955829. < 5> < 6> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956572, can be < 7> admitted and marked exhibit 46. < 8> < 9> EXHIBIT #46 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT 17:30:17, <10> BARCODED 6956572 <11> <12> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, <13> barcoded 6955829, can be admitted and marked exhibit 47. <14> <15> EXHIBIT #47 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <16> 4/10/2006 AT 17:30:17, BARCODED 6955829 <17> <18> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <19> <20> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was Mr Ovadia leaving a <21> message for you on your message bank, or message service? <22> A. Yes. <23> <24> Q. If we could go to the next call, which is 4 October <25> 2006, at 21:24:30. It is -- <26> A. Sorry, what time was that, sir? <27> <28> Q. 21:24:30, on 4 October, the same day as the other <29> calls? <30> A. 21:24, thank you. <31> <32> MR KING: It is barcode 6956562 and the transcript is <33> 6955626 to 6955628. <34> <35> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956562, can be <36> admitted and marked exhibit 48. <37> <38> EXHIBIT #48 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 4/10/2006, AT 21:24:30, <39> BARCODED 6956562 <40> <41> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, 6955626 to <42> 6955628, can be admitted and marked exhibit 49. <43> <44> EXHIBIT #49 ASSOCIATED EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL <45> ON 4/10/2006, AT 21:24:30, BARCODED 6955626-6955628 <46> <47> (Audio played and transcript displayed) .1/6/07 (3) P-202 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> MR KING: Commissioner, that would be an appropriate point < 3> to request a further suppression order in respect of this < 4> matter being linked to any other xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx, < 5> and also in respect of the reference to it always being xx < 6> xxxxxx xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxx xxx xxxxx. < 7> < 8> THE COMMISSIONER: In accordance with the provisions of < 9> section 52 of the Act, I direct that any reference to this <10> matter xxxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx in <11> evidence given before the Commission not be published <12> except in such manner and to such persons as the Commission <13> specifies. I make a further order under section 52 of the <14> Act directing that the reference to evidence of it being in <15> xxxxxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxx mentioned in the <16> evidence given before the Commission not be published <17> except in such manner and to such persons as the Commission <18> specifies. <19> <20> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was yourself and <21> Mr Goodwin? <22> A. Yes. <23> <24> MR KING: The next call is on 4 October 2006 at 21:45:41. <25> Sorry, we won't play that call. I will just show you some <26> transcript, Mr Purcell, without playing the call. The <27> barcode on the top of the transcript is 6955629 to 6955634. <28> I will tender that as a confidential exhibit provided to <29> Mr Purcell -- <30> <31> THE COMMISSIONER: The transcript -- <32> <33> MR KING: -- and his counsel, in due course. <34> <35> THE COMMISSIONER: What are the details of that transcript <36> as regards to the call? <37> <38> MR KING: I should indicate it is a call on 4 October 2006 <39> at 21:45:41. <40> <41> THE COMMISSIONER: The edited transcript of that call, <42> barcoded 6955629 to 6955634, can be admitted and marked <43> exhibit 50AC. <44> <45> EXHIBIT #50AC EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF CALL ON 4/10/2006 AT <46> 21:45:41, BARCODED 6955629-6955634 <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-203 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> THE COMMISSIONER: Access to exhibit 50AC is limited to < 2> Commission officers, Mr Willis and Mr Purcell. < 3> < 4> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, when that is provided to you, I < 5> would just ask you to read through it and let us know when < 6> you have read it. < 7> A. Thank you, sir. < 8> < 9> THE COMMISSIONER: Read it first? <10> <11> MR KING: Yes. <12> <13> THE COMMISSIONER: Q. Just have a read of it first, <14> Mr Purcell. <15> A. Thank you, sir. Yes, I have read that. <16> <17> MR KING: Q. I will try to avoid using names. This was <18> yourself speaking with a member of the public who was <19> socially known to you, I take it? <20> A. No, she was an employee of the police department. <21> <22> Q. And -- <23> A. Married to a police officer. <24> <25> Q. And who knew the family concerned in the allegation? <26> A. Yes. <27> <28> Q. That is, the victim? <29> A. One of the victims, yes. <30> <31> Q. One of the victims. In that call, you provided her <32> with information about the incident itself? <33> A. Yes. <34> <35> Q. And -- <36> A. Well, she already knew about the incident. She <37> contacted me. <38> <39> Q. She didn't know the detail of it, did she? <40> A. She knew a fair bit. <41> <42> Q. She only knew that there has been an incident, and you <43> supplied her with the detail? <44> A. No. No, I think she knew about the incident, but I <45> certainly gave her some details about the incident, yes. <46> <47> Q. And also some details about the xxxx or xxxxxxxx xxxx .1/6/07 (3) P-204 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> between this and other offences? < 2> A. Yes. < 3> < 4> Q. This was someone who was not involved in the < 5> investigation at all? < 6> A. No, she was an employee of the police department and < 7> married to a police officer. < 8> < 9> Q. Did she have a rank? <10> A. Did he have a rank? <11> <12> Q. Did he? <13> A. Yes. <14> <15> Q. Did she I meant, sorry? <16> A. No. <17> <18> Q. Did she have a rank? <19> A. No. <20> <21> Q. She was a civilian employee, was she? <22> A. Correct. <23> <24> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, which is on <25> 5 October 2006 at 08:55:32. The call is barcoded <26> 6956561 -- <27> <28> THE WITNESS: Sir, before you go on with that, sir, can I <29> just add one other thing to this? Apart from xxxxxxx <30> those two other offences, I don't think anything was <31> released to her that wasn't released in the media. Sorry, <32> Mr King. <33> <34> MR KING: Could we play the next call which s as I have <35> indicated, barcode 6956561, and the transcript is barcode <36> 6955830 to 6955831. <37> <38> THE COMMISSIONER: The call 6956561 can be admitted and <39> marked exhibit 51. <40> <41> EXHIBIT #51 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 5/10/2006 AT 08:55:32, <42> BARCODED 6956561 <43> <44> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, 6955830 to <45> 6955831 can be marked and admitted as exhibit 52. <46> <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-205 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> EXHIBIT #52 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON < 2> 5/10/2006 AT 08:55:32, BARCODED 6955830-6955831 < 3> < 4> (Audio played and transcript displayed) < 5> < 6> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was yourself and < 7> Shaun Fewings, a member of the media? < 8> A. Yes. < 9> <10> MR KING: If we could go to the next call which is on <11> 5 October 2006 at 09:50:24. The call barcode is 6956565 <12> and the transcript is 6955635. <13> <14> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956565 can be <15> admitted and marked exhibit 53. <16> <17> EXHIBIT #53 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 5/10/2006 AT 09:50:24, <18> BARCODED 6956565 <19> <20> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript barcoded <21> 6955635 can be admitted and marked exhibit 54. <22> <23> EXHIBIT #54 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <24> 5/10/2006 AT 09:50:24, BARCODED 6955635 <25> <26> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <27> <28> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was yourself and <29> Helen Begg? <30> A. Yes. <31> <32> Q. She was the senior officer at the joint investigation <33> response team who was taking over the investigation? <34> A. At that stage it was a joint investigation. <35> <36> Q. Yes. In the last call, with Mr Fewings, you referred <37> to JIRT, who were taking over the investigation? <38> A. Yes. At that stage it was still a joint <39> investigation. <40> <41> Q. Yes, but JIRT were taking it over, weren't they? <42> A. No. Not at that stage. <43> <44> Q. When you told her that you hadn't had any inquiries, <45> that was in fact false because you had had an inquiry from <46> Mr Fewings and you had given him some information about <47> there being a comfit perhaps available that day? .1/6/07 (3) P-206 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> A. Correct. < 2> < 3> MR KING: Is that an appropriate time, Commissioner, to < 4> take the luncheon adjournment? < 5> < 6> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr King. We will take the < 7> luncheon adjournment and come back at 2 o'clock. < 8> < 9> LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT <10> <11> <12> <13> <14> <15> <16> <17> <18> <19> <20> <21> <22> <23> <24> <25> <26> <27> <28> <29> <30> <31> <32> <33> <34> <35> <36> <37> <38> <39> <40> <41> <42> <43> <44> <45> <46> <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-207 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> UPON RESUMPTION: < 2> < 3> MR WILLIS: Commissioner, before Mr Purcell's evidence < 4> resumes, there are just a couple of issues, if I could < 5> raise them with you. It arises out of the transcript and < 6> the playing of some of the telephone intercept material. < 7> The first of those I believe occurs in the telephone call < 8> which became exhibit 25 and the transcript was exhibit 26, < 9> and my client being concerned about his reference in that <10> telephone call to the use of what might be regarded as a <11> racially offensive description, I think, of "Leb pricks". <12> My client is concerned about the reporting of that in <13> conjunction with this, that in the telephone call which <14> became exhibit 30 and the transcript being exhibit 31 he <15> also made reference to the fact that the call was taking <16> place in the xxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx. Your <17> Honour, my client instructs me that he is concerned that if <18> those two references are not suppressed, he fears some <19> retribution, or the possibility, I suppose, of some <20> retribution on the racial group who will be offended by <21> that comment and xxx xxxxxxxx. <22> <23> Commissioner, in my submission, it is not relevant to <24> the inquiry the fact (a), that he used that expression or <25> (b), and most strongly, that he has a xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <26> xxxxxxxx. It doesn't advance the inquiry in any way and I <27> would ask that those references be suppressed and, if need <28> be, deleted from the transcript in each case. <29> <30> THE COMMISSIONER: Sorry, Mr Willis, I suppose you are <31> relying on a link between the two, are you, with regards -- <32> <33> MR WILLIS: A link -- <34> <35> THE COMMISSIONER: -- your submission? <36> <37> MR WILLIS: Certainly a link between the two. I think, in <38> terms of the second one, it can stand alone in any event, <39> Commissioner, the reference to him xxxxxx x xxxxxxxxxxxxx <40> xxxxxxxx is simply -- <41> <42> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I understand that. I'm sure you <43> appreciate, Mr Willis, that there are probably a lot of <44> things in those conversations that, if each bit was taken <45> on an information-by-information basis, wouldn't be <46> relevant, strictly speaking, to the scope or purpose or the <47> Commission's interests, so I don't know whether that is .1/6/07 (3) P-208 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> something we can do a great deal about. < 2> < 3> Having said that, certainly Mr Purcell's family < 4> situation - if that could be alleviated in some way by < 5> deleting any reference to that. The first one, as I said, < 6> I don't think I can do much about or that much can be done < 7> about it, but the reference to Mr Purcell's xxxxxxxx could < 8> perhaps be deleted from the transcript. I don't know, < 9> Mr King, whether you have any views about that? <10> <11> MR KING: Rather than delete it from the transcript, <12> Commissioner -- <13> <14> THE COMMISSIONER: Suppressed, I'm sorry. <15> <16> MR KING: Just suppress the fact that he xxx x xxxxxxxx. <17> <18> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I'm happy to make that order, <19> Mr Willis, in relation to anything to do with Mr Purcell's <20> personal circumstances, certainly his family, but the <21> conversation in relation to "Leb pricks" that he referred <22> to - as I said, that's the conversation. I'm not satisfied <23> that there is a basis to make any suppression order in <24> relation to that. <25> <26> MR WILLIS: Whether or not the comment was made, <27> Commissioner, in my submission doesn't advance the inquiry <28> at all and only has the potential to prejudice my client <29> further in the eyes of the community and particularly in <30> one part of the community. <31> <32> THE COMMISSIONER: All right, Mr Willis, I am prepared to <33> make a suppression order in relation to anything to <34> identify Mr Purcell's circumstances as regards having x <35> xxxxxxxx, but other than that, Mr Willis, I'm not really <36> minded to grant the application in relation to the first <37> submission you have made. To that extent, I am happy to <38> make an order under section 52 of the Act directing that no <39> information or evidence regarding any reference to <40> Mr Purcell having x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx as referred to <41> in evidence in the hearing is to be published, except in <42> such manner and to such persons as the Commission <43> specifies. <44> <45> MR KING: I don't know whether that actual exhibit has <46> been released as yet or not, but we will see what we can <47> do, Mr Commissioner. We may have to revisit that .1/6/07 (3) P-209 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> particular order. Could we please play a call on 5 October < 2> 2006 at 10:12:30. It is barcoded 6956560 and the < 3> transcript is 6956442 to 6956448. < 4> < 5> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956560 can be < 6> admitted and marked exhibit 55. < 7> < 8> EXHIBIT #55 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 5/10/2006 AT 10:12:30, < 9> BARCODED 6956560 <10> <11> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript barcoded <12> 6956442 to 6956448 can be admitted and marked exhibit 56. <13> <14> EXHIBIT #56 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT FOR TELEPHONE CALL ON <15> 5/10/2006 AT 10:12:30, BARCODED 6956442-6956448 <16> <17> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <18> <19> MR KING: Q. That was yourself and Mr Ovadia? <20> A. Yes. <21> <22> Q. And you were providing him with the details and <23> particularly the date for a release so that he would be <24> able to obtain the information in respect of the three <25> linked matters? <26> A. It was public information. <27> <28> Q. Yes, and you were providing him with the information <29> as to how he could locate the press release at the time <30> that linked the other three matters; correct? <31> A. Yes. <32> <33> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, which is on <34> 5 October 2006 at 12:42:12. I don't think we have the <35> actual audio of that call at the moment, Commissioner, so I <36> will just use the transcript. <37> <38> THE COMMISSIONER: Certainly. <39> <40> MR KING: The transcript of the call on 5 October 2006 at <41> 12:42:12 is barcoded 6955636 to 6955638. <42> <43> THE COMMISSIONER: Q. Do you want to have a read of that <44> to yourself, Mr Purcell. <45> <46> THE COMMISSIONER: The transcript for that call, 6955636 <47> to 6955638, can be admitted and marked exhibit 57. .1/6/07 (3) P-210 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> EXHIBIT #57 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON < 3> 5/10/2006 AT 12:42:12, BARCODED 6955636-6955638 < 4> < 5> THE WITNESS: Yes. < 6> < 7> MR KING: Q. That was yourself talking to Mr Greene? < 8> A. Yes. < 9> <10> Q. In the course of that call, you provided him with the <11> information that it appeared that the matter concerned a <12> serial offender? <13> A. Yes. <14> <15> MR KING: Could we go to the next call, which is on <16> 5 October 2006 at 12:57:00. It is barcoded 6956592 and the <17> transcript is 6956492 to 6956496. <18> <19> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956592 can be <20> admitted and marked exhibit 58. <21> <22> EXHIBIT #58 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 5/10/2006 AT 12:57:00, <23> BARCODED 6956592 <24> <25> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, 6956492 to <26> 6956496 can be admitted and marked exhibit 59. <27> <28> EXHIBIT #59 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF PHONE CALL ON <29> 5/10/2006 AT 12:57:00, BARCODED 6956492-6956496 <30> <31> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <32> <33> MR KING: Q. Yourself, again, in that call talking to <34> another member of the media? <35> A. Yes. <36> <37> Q. About the alleged assault? <38> A. Yep. <39> <40> Q. And providing information to him about the impact on <41> the victim which you didn't want him to put in the article <42> as coming from you; is that right? <43> A. I didn't want him putting it in the article. <44> <45> Q. You said, "But don't put that in from me"? <46> A. I'm not going to quibble about it. As I said, I <47> didn't want it in the article. .1/6/07 (3) P-211 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> MR KING: Then if we could go to the next call, which is < 3> in fact an SMS message, so I will bring that up on screen. < 4> It is barcode 6955644. The barcode to bring it up on < 5> screen is 6956566. It is an SMS message on 5 October 2006 < 6> at 17:40:28. < 7> < 8> THE COMMISSIONER: That's barcode 6955644, the call, for < 9> want of a better term, 6956566 can be admitted and marked <10> exhibit 60. <11> <12> EXHIBIT #60 CD OF SMS MESSAGE ON 5/10/2006 AT 17:40:28, <13> BARCODED 6956566 <14> <15> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded <16> 6955644, can be admitted and marked exhibit 61. <17> <18> MR KING: Commissioner, could that become a confidential <19> exhibit, because it has the telephone numbers of Mr Ovadia <20> and Mr Purcell on it. <21> <22> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, so that is exhibit number 61 will <23> be admitted on the basis as a confidential exhibit with <24> access limited to Commission officers and Mr Purcell and <25> Mr Willis and will be admitted, therefore, as exhibit 61AC. <26> <27> EXHIBIT #61AC TRANSCRIPT OF SMS MESSAGE ON 5/10/2006 <28> AT 17:40:28, BARCODED 6955644 <29> <30> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, do you recognise that as an SMS <31> message that you received from Mr Ovadia in relation to <32> this particular matter? <33> A. I don't recall receiving that, but I don't dispute it. <34> <35> Q. You will note in it that he says that he's confirmed <36> elsewhere that the xxxxxx attacker is a serial offender and <37> "We'll be running it tonight"? <38> A. Yes. <39> <40> MR KING: If we could then go to another SMS message, <41> being barcode, to bring it up on screen, 6955645. <42> <43> THE COMMISSIONER: That transcript barcode 6955645 can be <44> admitted and marked exhibit 62AC - I again assume, Mr King, <45> with the phone numbers it will be confidential? <46> <47> MR KING: Yes. .1/6/07 (3) P-212 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> THE COMMISSIONER: It can be admitted as exhibit 62AC with < 3> access restricted to Commission officers, Mr Purcell and < 4> Mr Willis. < 5> < 6> EXHIBIT #62AC CD OF SMS MESSAGE ON 5/10/06 AT 17:41:05, < 7> BARCODED 6955645 < 8> < 9> MR KING: Q. That is your SMS message responding to <10> Mr Ovadia's saying that he'd confirmed elsewhere that the <11> xxxxxx attacker was a serial offender and telling you <12> "We'll be running it tonight". Do you recall that? <13> A. I don't recall it, but I don't dispute it either. <14> <15> Q. And you saying "Sweet"? <16> A. Yep. <17> <18> MR KING: The next call is on 5 October 2006 at 17:41:20, <19> and it is barcoded 6956568 and the transcript is 6955646. <20> <21> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956568 can be <22> admitted and marked exhibit 63. <23> <24> EXHIBIT #63 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 5/10/2006 AT 17:41:20, <25> BARCODED 6956568 <26> <27> THE COMMISSIONER: The associate transcript barcoded <28> 6955646 can be admitted and marked exhibit 64. <29> <30> EXHIBIT #64 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <31> 5/10/2006 AT 17:41:20, BARCODED 6955646 <32> <33> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <34> <35> MR KING: Q. That was yourself and Mr Ovadia? <36> A. Yep. <37> <38> Q. Mr Ovadia indicating to you that he'd sent the text to <39> cover the bases in case there were any dramas? <40> A. Can I see it again, please? Just the transcript. <41> You don't have to play it. <42> <43> Q. Yes. <44> A. Yes. <45> <46> Q. The purpose of that was to provide you with the <47> ability to demonstrate that Mr Ovadia had found out about .1/6/07 (3) P-213 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> it being a serial offender from his own resources, rather < 2> than the material you had earlier supplied to him in the < 3> telephone call at 10:12:30 that day? < 4> A. I suppose that could be the inference, yes. < 5> < 6> Q. If we could go to the next call. Perhaps if you could < 7> return that transcript. < 8> A. Thank you. Do you want the other one as well? < 9> <10> Q. Yes, thank you. <11> <12> MR KING: The next call is on 5 October 2006 at 18:15:58, <13> and it is barcoded 6956569, and the transcript is 6956449 <14> to 6956451. I tender that. <15> <16> THE COMMISSIONER: The call, barcoded 6956569 can be <17> admitted and marked exhibit 65. <18> <19> EXHIBIT #65 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 5/10/2006 AT 18:15:58, <20> BARCODED 6956569 <21> <22> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript barcoded <23> 6956449 to 6956451 can be admitted and marked exhibit 66. <24> <25> EXHIBIT #66 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <26> 5/10/2006 AT 18:15:58, BARCODED 6956449-6956451 <27> <28> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <29> <30> MR KING: Q. Was that yourself talking with Helen Begg? <31> A. Yes. What time was that call? <32> <33> Q. It was at 18:15:58 on 5 October. <34> A. Yes. <35> <36> Q. And you pretending that Mr Ovadia had managed to find <37> out the information about the serial offender and the <38> number of offences from his own resources, rather than from <39> the information you had been providing him with during the <40> course of the day; correct? <41> A. Yes. Also, I think I may have seen or Ovadia may have <42> attended the police station at some stage that afternoon. <43> So some of that conversation might have been from a face to <44> face, rather than just from phone calls. But, yeah, I'd <45> agree with that. <46> <47> MR KING: The next call is on 5 October 2006 at 19:29:00, .1/6/07 (3) P-214 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> and it is barcoded 6956542 and the transcript is 6956452 to < 2> 6956455. < 3> < 4> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956542 can be < 5> admitted and marked exhibit 67. < 6> < 7> EXHIBIT #67 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 5/10/2006 AT 19:29:00, < 8> BARCODED 6956542 < 9> <10> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded <11> 6956452 to 6956455, can be admitted and marked exhibit 68. <12> <13> EXHIBIT #68 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <14> 5/10/2006 AT 19:29:00, BARCODED 6956452-6956455 <15> <16> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <17> <18> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, was that yourself and Mr Ovadia <19> again? <20> A. Yes. <21> <22> Q. Talking about the information, at least in part of the <23> call, that you had leaked to him? <24> A. Yes. <25> <26> Q. And the reason for the covering text message? <27> A. Oh, no, I don't - I don't agree with that. <28> <29> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, which is <30> 9 October 2006, 13:20:45, and it is barcode 6956559. The <31> transcript is 6955647 to 6955652. <32> <33> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956559 can be <34> admitted and marked exhibit 69. <35> <36> EXHIBIT #69 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 9/10/2006 AT 13:20:45, <37> BARCODED 6956559 <38> <39> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, 6955647 to <40> 6955652 can be admitted and marked exhibit 70. <41> <42> EXHIBIT #70 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <43> 9/10/2006 AT 13:20:45, BARCODED 6955647-6955652 <44> <45> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <46> <47> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, was that yourself and .1/6/07 (3) P-215 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Kara Lawrence? < 2> A. Yes. < 3> < 4> Q. And you, having told her that you couldn't tell her < 5> anything about the ex-police officer, then proceeded to < 6> give her some details? < 7> A. Well, confirm, knock out inaccuracies. She obviously < 8> had information prior to this phone call. < 9> <10> Q. Certainly she had some information, but you proceeded <11> to tell her where he'd been seen -- <12> A. Did I say exactly -- <13> <14> Q. -- that he'd been placed near the fence wearing <15> similar clothing by one other witness, and you also gave <16> her information about his age and about what the witness <17> said as to the time at which he was there; correct? <18> A. She had his age wrong by one year. <19> <20> Q. So you helped her to get the age right? <21> A. Well, I corrected her. <22> <23> Q. You also provided her with the information that the <24> witness had put him as being there 10 minutes after the <25> offence, as opposed to what he said, that he was there in <26> the morning? <27> A. That's right. <28> <29> Q. So you were providing her with information as to what <30> a witness said and information as to what the person of <31> interest said? <32> A. Yes. <33> <34> Q. By that stage, that is 9 October 2006, it was JIRTs <35> that was in charge of this particular matter? <36> A. I still think it was a collaborative task force that <37> was working out of my police station. <38> <39> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, which is on <40> 9 October 2006 at 13:36:44, and it's barcoded 6956543 and <41> it's transcript 6956456 to 6956457. <42> <43> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956543 can be <44> admitted and marked exhibit 71. <45> <46> EXHIBIT #71 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 9/10/2006 AT 13:36:44, <47> BARCODED 6956543 .1/6/07 (3) P-216 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> THE COMMISSIONER: And the associated transcript barcoded < 3> 6956456 to 6956457 can be admitted and marked exhibit 72. < 4> < 5> EXHIBIT #72 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON < 6> 9/10/2006 AT 13:36:44, BARCODED 6956456-6956457 < 7> < 8> THE WITNESS: Sir, can I also ask, Mr Commissioner, if I < 9> could also ask that the evidence involving the ex-police <10> officer living in the vicinity could be suppressed. <11> <12> MR KING: Commissioner, I don't see any need for that. <13> There has been publication in the press in the past in <14> relation to this. There is no suggestion that this <15> particular ex-police officer in fact had anything to do <16> with the matter at all. <17> <18> THE WITNESS: None whatsoever. <19> <20> MR KING: And his name has not been used. <21> <22> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <23> <24> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was yourself with <25> Mr Goodwin? <26> A. Yes. <27> <28> Q. And you pretending to him that Ms Lawrence had <29> obtained the information about there being no orange <30> T-shirt from someone other than you? <31> A. I didn't pretend. That was my take at the time of the <32> phone call. <33> <34> Q. In the previous call -- <35> A. I'm well aware of what was said in the previous <36> call -- <37> <38> Q. -- you said to her -- <39> A. But, sir -- <40> <41> Q. -- "I know one thing, there was no orange T-shirt". <42> A. Sir, as I said -- <43> <44> Q. That came from you, didn't it? <45> A. I wouldn't have deliberately pretended. What was the <46> point? <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-217 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Q. You gave her part of the result of the search, didn't < 2> you? < 3> A. She gave me -- < 4> < 5> Q. "There was no orange T-shirt" < 6> A. As I said, I wasn't pretending deliberately. < 7> < 8> Q. You also said: < 9> 10 ... she knows he was placed there by a <11> witness. <12> <13> Again, that was information you had supplied to her, wasn't <14> it? <15> A. Well, in light of the other phone call, yes. <16> <17> Q. Yeah. <18> A. But I wasn't deliberately misleading Mr Goodwin. <19> <20> Q. All right. Yes, thank you, Mr Purcell. <21> <22> MR KING: The next call is on 9 October 2006 at 14:37:18. <23> It's barcoded 6956558 and the transcript is 6955653 to <24> 6955664. <25> <26> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956558 can be <27> admitted and marked exhibit 73. <28> <29> EXHIBIT #73 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 9/10/2006 AT 14:37:18, <30> BARCODED 6956558 <31> <32> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript 6955653 to <33> 6955664 can be admitted and marked exhibit 74. <34> <35> EXHIBIT #74 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <36> 9/10/2006 AT 14:37:18, BARCODED 6955653-6955664 <37> <38> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <39> <40> MR KING: Q. Yourself and Kara Lawrence again, <41> Mr Purcell? <42> A. Yes. <43> <44> Q. Were you trying, at least in part, to head off her <45> publication of an article about the ex-police officer which <46> was to include information that you had in fact provided to <47> her? .1/6/07 (3) P-218 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> A. Well, part of it. < 2> < 3> Q. In part? < 4> A. Yes, that's right. Yes. < 5> < 6> Q. And at least in respect of the fact that it was an < 7> ex-police officer, something that you had also confirmed to < 8> her? < 9> A. She knew that. <10> <11> Q. Yes, but you had confirmed it in the first call, after <12> saying that: <13> <14> Oh, I can't tell you that ... well, I can't <15> tell you that ... I can tell you this <16> Kara, off the record ... <17> <18> And then you proceeded to confirm it and give her some <19> details? <20> A. I won't quibble with semantics, sir, but certainly she <21> came to me with that information rather than me going to <22> her. <23> <24> Q. Yes. <25> <26> MR KING: Could we bring up on screen, please, <27> barcode 6899807. Mr Purcell, I take it you saw the <28> newspaper article that was published by Kara Lawrence on <29> 10 October 2006? <30> A. I can't recall, sir. <31> <32> Q. Just have a quick look at it and see if that brings <33> anything back to your memory. <34> A. Yes. <35> <36> MR KING: Commissioner, since that includes a lot of <37> details, I will tender it, even though it is a newspaper <38> article, as a confidential exhibit. <39> <40> THE COMMISSIONER: Barcode 6899807, being a Daily <41> Telegraph article of 10 October 2006, can be admitted and <42> marked as a confidential exhibit 75AC with access limited <43> to Commission officers, Mr Purcell and Mr Willis. <44> <45> EXHIBIT #75AC DAILY TELEGRAPH NEWSPAPER ARTICLE, <46> DATED 10/10/2006, BARCODED 6899807 <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-219 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> MR WILLIS: Commissioner, with apologies to Mr King, can I < 2> just raise one matter: in an earlier exhibit you < 3> suppressed the name of the suburb, and I note that that < 4> last item that became exhibit 75AC is a confidential < 5> exhibit, but in the transcript which became exhibit 74 I < 6> think there was also a reference to the suburb and, indeed, < 7> the fact that the witness lives not far from that suspect. < 8> All I ask, Commissioner, is whether the suppression in < 9> terms of the suburb that you made earlier would apply to <10> that particular transcript, if indeed it is mentioned in <11> it - I felt that it was - and perhaps generally to the <12> evidence. <13> <14> THE COMMISSIONER: The suppression order should apply <15> generally to the evidence, Mr Willis, not just that <16> transcript, so it would also cover any reference to xxxxxx <17> in that prior exhibit. <18> <19> MR WILLIS: Thank you. If it does, thank you. <20> <21> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, it does. <22> <23> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, which is on <24> 20 October 2006 at 11:37:16, and it's barcoded 6956556 and <25> the transcript is 6956481 to 6956483. <26> <27> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956556 can be <28> admitted and marked exhibit 76. <29> <30> EXHIBIT #76 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 20/10/2006 AT 11:37:16, <31> BARCODED 6956556 <32> <33> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript barcoded <34> 6956481 to 6956483 can be admitted and marked exhibit 77. <35> <36> EXHIBIT #77 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON <37> 20/10/2006 AT 11:37:16, BARCODED 6956481-6956483 <38> <39> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <40> <41> MR KING: Commissioner, would you suppress, please, the <42> information that they xxxxxxxx x xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxx xxxx <43> xxx . <44> <45> THE WITNESS: xxxxx xxx xxxxx. <46> <47> MR KING: I think everything else appropriate has been .1/6/07 (3) P-220 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> edited out. < 2> < 3> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, all right, Mr King. In accordance < 4> with section 52 of the Act I direct that no information or < 5> evidence in relation xx xxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxx < 6> xxxxx, I think it was, or from the -- < 7> < 8> MR KING: xxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxx < 9> xxxxxxxx. <10> <11> THE COMMISSIONER: All right. <12> <13> THE WITNESS: I think it was just xxxx xxx xxxxx. <14> <15> THE COMMISSIONER: I will just do that again, then. Any <16> evidence or information xxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx <17> xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx as mentioned in <18> evidence before the Commission is not to be published <19> except in such manner and to such persons as the Commission <20> specifies. <21> <22> MR KING: Q. Again, that was yourself and the local <23> member of parliament? <24> A. Yes. <25> <26> Q. You were providing him with the current update and <27> confidential information about what was happening in that <28> particular matter on 20 October 2006? <29> A. Yes. <30> <31> Q. Well after it had been well and truly taken over by <32> JIRTs; correct? <33> A. As stated, I still had detectives involved in the <34> investigation. They were working from my police station. <35> <36> MR KING: If we could go to the next call, which is on <37> 9 November 2006 at 14:10:40, and it is barcoded 6956555. <38> The transcript is 6955680 to 6955681. <39> <40> THE COMMISSIONER: The call barcoded 6956555 can be <41> admitted and marked exhibit 78. <42> <43> EXHIBIT #78 CD OF TELEPHONE CALL ON 9/11/2006 AT 14:10:40, <44> BARCODED 6956555 <45> <46> THE COMMISSIONER: The associated transcript, barcoded <47> 6955680 to 6955681 can be admitted and marked exhibit 79. .1/6/07 (3) P-221 A M PURCELL (Mr King) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> < 2> EXHIBIT #79 ASSOCIATED TRANSCRIPT OF TELEPHONE CALL ON < 3> 9/11/2006 AT 14:10:40, BARCODED 6955680-6955681 < 4> < 5> MR KING: I flag, your Honour, that there is a reference < 6> to xxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx in this call, which is covered by < 7> the previous ruling. < 8> < 9> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr King. <10> <11> (Audio played and transcript displayed) <12> <13> MR KING: Q. Mr Purcell, that was, again, yourself and <14> Kara Lawrence? <15> A. Yes. <16> <17> Q. Are you talking with her about the xxx xxxx xxx <18> xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxx xxxxxx and then being used to <19> eliminate suspects? <20> A. Yes. <21> <22> MR KING: Thank you, I have no further questions, <23> Commissioner. <24> <25> THE COMMISSIONER: I will start with you, Mr McIlwaine. <26> I'm not sure whether you've been able to give any thought <27> to whether you wish to ask any questions of Mr Purcell. <28> <29> MR McILWAINE: Sorry, are you addressing me, Commissioner? <30> <31> THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr McIlwaine. <32> <33> MR McILWAINE: I have some short questions, Commissioner. <34> <35> <EXAMINATION BY MR McILWAINE: <36> <37> MR McILWAINE: Q. Mr Purcell, in regard to the meeting <38> you had with Mr Fletcher I think on 24 November -- <39> A. Yes. <40> <41> Q. -- when you discussed with him undertaking a forensic <42> procedure on the next day - correct? <43> A. Yes. <44> <45> Q. The fact that that meeting took place was no secret <46> within the Bondi police station and the local area command; <47> is that correct? .1/6/07 (3) P-222 A M PURCELL (Mr McIlwaine) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> A. It was kept from the larger part of the local area < 2> command as general duties, crime management unit, but it < 3> certainly wasn't any secret at Bondi police station, < 4> because he walked into it, and certainly not from the < 5> detectives. < 6> < 7> Q. Over time it did become the subject of comment by < 8> administrative staff, for example, at Bondi Police Station; < 9> is that correct? <10> A. That was my information, yes. <11> <12> Q. You were acting as the local area commander at the <13> time; is that correct? <14> A. Yes. <15> <16> Q. You were acting in place of Mr Walton; that's correct? <17> A. Yes, that's right. <18> <19> Q. And he subsequently returned to duties? <20> A. He did. <21> <22> Q. Do you recall whether you advised him, firstly, of the <23> fact of that meeting taking place? <24> A. I can't recall specifically, but I certainly would <25> have briefed him about the status of the investigation. <26> <27> Q. Is it your belief that he was at least aware that the <28> meeting had taken place? <29> A. Yeah, that was my - well, that's my impression now, <30> that he was well aware of that. <31> <32> Q. On another topic, in regard to investigations, after <33> an investigation is commenced, firstly, the investigation <34> file is not completed unless there is some court action; is <35> that correct? <36> A. Could you repeat that question, sorry? <37> <38> Q. Perhaps I will take it another way. <39> A. Yes. <40> <41> Q. An investigation is commenced. <42> A. Yes. <43> <44> Q. An investigation file is created? <45> A. Yes. <46> <47> Q. On the computer system? .1/6/07 (3) P-223 A M PURCELL (Mr McIlwaine) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> A. Yep. < 2> < 3> Q. At a point in time, the investigating officer might < 4> come to the view that the investigation can proceed no < 5> further? < 6> A. That's right. < 7> < 8> Q. In that case, it is the situation, is it not, that the < 9> investigating officer can suspend the investigation? <10> A. Yes. <11> <12> Q. By going into the computer system and electronically <13> advising the investigations manager? <14> A. That's right. <15> <16> Q. And obtaining the approval of the investigations <17> manager? <18> A. That's right. <19> <20> Q. And that's all that's required for the case to be <21> suspended? <22> A. On the OIC's behalf, yes, that's right. The <23> investigations manager can decide that it should still be <24> investigated or there are other avenues to explore. <25> <26> Q. The investigation manager can say, "No, don't suspend <27> it. Do this and do whatever"? <28> A. That's right. <29> <30> MR McILWAINE: Commissioner, could the witness be <31> shown - I have a hard copy, if it is easier - a document <32> which hasn't been tendered but it was shown to my client. <33> It is barcode 6759373. It is a document which my client <34> was -- <35> <36> MR KING: I don't think it is a document his client was <37> actually shown. I don't have a problem with it being shown <38> to Mr Purcell. It was referred to. <39> <40> MR McILWAINE: I will deal with it another way to save the <41> problem. <42> <43> Q. So the situation is that there is no necessity for a <44> formal report to go through to the local area commander for <45> an investigator to suspend a file? <46> A. Generally speaking, that's right. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-224 A M PURCELL (Mr McIlwaine) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Q. However, if an investigating officer is seeking an < 2> opinion or advice from legal services, it is necessary for < 3> the investigating officer, through that chain of command, < 4> to formally request that advice from legal services; is < 5> that correct? < 6> A. By way of report; that's correct. < 7> < 8> MR McILWAINE: Nothing further, Commissioner. < 9> <10> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr McIlwaine. Mr Willis, do <11> you have any questions of Mr Purcell? <12> <13> MR WILLIS: No, thank you, Commissioner. <14> <15> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Willis. Mr Spartalis, I <16> will ask you, but I don't know whether you have any? <17> <18> MR SPARTALIS: No questions. <19> <20> MR KING: Then, Commissioner, Mr Purcell can be - I have <21> no further questions. <22> <23> THE COMMISSIONER: Q. I just have a couple of questions, <24> Mr Purcell. <25> A. Certainly, sir. <26> <27> Q. Just in relation to your position with the State of <28> Origin side -- <29> A. Yes. <30> <31> Q. -- or team, how long have you been involved with the <32> State of Origin team? <33> A. Since 2005. <34> <35> Q. So is this year your third year with the team? <36> A. Correct. <37> <38> Q. Is that right? <39> A. Yes. <40> <41> Q. What do your duties involve in the role that you have <42> with the team? <43> A. In management of the team? <44> <45> Q. Yes. <46> A. And you want specifics? <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-225 A M PURCELL (Mr McIlwaine) Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> Q. Oh, generalities. < 2> A. Okay. Just generally making sure that the team < 3> adheres to the program that's scheduled for each day, < 4> whether it be training, sponsors, corporate < 5> responsibilities; organising transport to and fro venues; < 6> risk assessing venues that they go to; organising training < 7> facilities; facilitating those training sessions, have a < 8> hands-on with the training; facilitating tickets to the < 9> team and their family - obviously not the team, but their <10> family; organising jumper signings; and so on and so forth. <11> Generally management of the team throughout the 10-day <12> camps, eight-day camps, whatever they may be. They vary <13> sometimes. <14> <15> Q. Included within those duties is there something that <16> could also loosely be described as security? <17> A. No. No, and that was a misapprehension, that we were <18> brought in to offer security, to manage behaviour. We set <19> expectations to the team about behaviour and set standards, <20> as any managers would, but actual security - we have <21> security people that are onhand in the dressing room that <22> do security - stop people coming in and out, maintain <23> protection of the players' gear, those sorts of things. <24> That's not our role. Our role is management. But, again, <25> part of our role is setting standards of behaviour and <26> ensuring that those standards are met. <27> <28> Q. When you say "our", is included in that "our" Mr Wood? <29> A. Certainly, yes. <30> <31> Q. Are there any other police officers -- <32> A. No. <33> <34> Q. -- other than yourself and Mr Wood who are involved in <35> the management of the team? <36> A. No, but there are other managers. <37> <38> Q. There are other managers, yes, I think we have heard <39> some evidence about that. But other than yourself and <40> Mr Wood, there are no other police officers, as far as you <41> know? <42> A. There isn't. <43> <44> THE COMMISSIONER: I don't know whether there is anything <45> arising from anybody else on that front? No. All right, <46> Mr Purcell. I think we can safely say that that concludes <47> the evidence that is sought from you. Unless Mr King .1/6/07 (3) P-226 A M PURCELL Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> objects or anyone else objects, we can discharge you from < 2> the summons that brought you here today. < 3> < 4> THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir. < 5> < 6> THE COMMISSIONER: If we do need to bring you back, which < 7> is probably unlikely, we can arrange for another summons to < 8> be served on you. So, yes, you may step down. < 9> <10> THE WITNESS: Thank you. <11> <12> <THE WITNESS WITHDREW <13> <14> MR KING: Commissioner, could I tender a number of last <15> matters. The first of those I would tender as a <16> confidential exhibit, accessible to any of those who have <17> been given leave to appear and their clients, providing, of <18> course, they have some interest in being able to access it, <19> being the full investigation file in respect of the sexual <20> assault allegation. It is barcoded 6759153 to 6759471, <21> which of course includes the document that Mr McIlwaine has <22> referred to. <23> <24> MR McILWAINE: Just in regard to that, Commissioner, I <25> don't know that access should be allowed to those who <26> represent MAL12 and MAL13. <27> <28> MR KING: That is what I just said: for those who are <29> relevantly interested. <30> <31> THE COMMISSIONER: So the investigation file barcoded <32> 6759153 to 6759471 can be admitted and marked as exhibit <33> 80AC with access restricted to those counsel and their <34> witnesses to whom authority was granted other than for <35> MAL12 and MAL13. <36> <37> EXHIBIT #80AC INVESTIGATION FILE IN RESPECT TO SEXUAL <38> ASSAULT INVESTIGATION, BARCODED 6759153-6759471 <39> <40> MR KING: Could I tender a transcript of evidence of <41> Alison Brazel from 29 May 2007, which is barcoded 6952700 <42> to 6952736. It has been edited to insert the codenames for <43> MAL12 and MAL13 and perhaps some other references. <44> <45> THE COMMISSIONER: The edited transcript, barcoded 6952700 <46> to 6952736 can be admitted and marked exhibit 81. <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-227 A M PURCELL Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> EXHIBIT #81 TRANSCRIPT OF EVIDENCE OF ALISON BRAZEL TAKEN < 2> IN PRIVATE SESSION ON 29/5/2007, BARCODED 6952700-6952736 < 3> < 4> MR KING: Could I also tender, Commissioner, as a public < 5> exhibit an edited copy of Mr Purcell's diary, barcoded < 6> 6979996 to 6979999. Perhaps Mr Willis and Mr Purcell might < 7> just like to check that to ensure there is nothing that < 8> they are concerned about in that, as a public exhibit. < 9> <10> THE COMMISSIONER: While that is going on, Mr King - and <11> you may be coming to it - I think the only remaining <12> witnesses who are not formally discharged are MAL12 and <13> MAL13. I note neither Mr Simpson nor Mr Oates are here. <14> <15> MR KING: I take that as a sure sign that they are not <16> interested, Commissioner. <17> <18> THE COMMISSIONER: I think I asked before - Mr Willis, I <19> think you indicated you didn't have any questions for MAL12 <20> or MAL13? <21> <22> MR WILLIS: No, I don't, Commissioner. <23> <24> THE COMMISSIONER: Mr McIlwaine, you were the same. <25> <26> MR McILWAINE: No, Commissioner. <27> <28> THE COMMISSIONER: I think we can safely assume that, <29> likewise, their representatives have no questions for your <30> client, Mr Willis, as well, I think. <31> <32> Is there anything in that diary? <33> <34> MR PURCELL: Not from me. <35> <36> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Purcell. <37> <38> MR WILLIS: Mr Spartalis is having a look, Commissioner. <39> <40> THE COMMISSIONER: I think most of it has been given in <41> evidence in some respect. You are happy with that, <42> Mr Spartalis? <43> <44> MR SPARTALIS: I am, Commissioner. <45> <46> THE COMMISSIONER: The edited copy of Mr Purcell's diary, <47> barcoded 6979996 to 6979999 can be admitted and marked as .1/6/07 (3) P-228 Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions


< 1> exhibit 82. < 2> < 3> EXHIBIT #82 EDITED COPY OF MR PURCELL'S DIARY, < 4> BARCODED 6979996-6979999 < 5> < 6> MR KING: Commissioner, there are no further witnesses or < 7> exhibits. < 8> < 9> THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr King. On that note, <10> given the time, unless there is anything else arising, we <11> can make contact with the relevant parties as regards any <12> timetable for submissions, but unless there is anything <13> else arising, I will adjourn. Thank you. <14> <15> AT 3.44PM THE COMMISSION WAS ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY <16> <17> <18> <19> <20> <21> <22> <23> <24> <25> <26> <27> <28> <29> <30> <31> <32> <33> <34> <35> <36> <37> <38> <39> <40> <41> <42> <43> <44> <45> <46> <47> .1/6/07 (3) P-229 Transcript produced by Merrill Legal Solutions

police integrity commission - abc · < 1> mr king: commissioner, could i tender a number of...

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