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Ian Baverstock Partner, Tenshi Consulting Producer Bootcamp Business 101

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Page 1: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

Ian BaverstockPartner, Tenshi Consulting

Producer Bootcamp Business 101

Page 2: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

INTRODUCTION

●Engineer who founded a developer in the UK in 1989

●Grew it to a public company with over 300 staff, 7 offices, 4 countries

●Sold it (Twice)

●Now a consultant and occasional investor in the games industry

Page 3: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

UNUSUAL����������� ������������������  FEATURES����������� ������������������  OF����������� ������������������  THE����������� ������������������  BUSINESS

●Some people make games just for fun!

●Only going to consider the business as if we are in it for the money!

Page 4: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

GAMES����������� ������������������  ARE����������� ������������������  ART

●Subjective not objective

●Success not predictable or analysable

●Plagiarism rife

●Entertainment not engineering

Page 5: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

‘WANNABE’����������� ������������������  BUSINESS

●Lots of competition

●Barriers to entry are less effective

●Over supply of people

●Talent needs spotting

Page 6: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

TEAMS����������� ������������������  MAKE����������� ������������������  GAMES

●Mix of creative and technical skills

●Rare to personalise the creator unlike most creative content

●Public association with individuals less common

Page 7: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

TECHNICALLY����������� ������������������  CUTTING����������� ������������������  EDGE

●Not a well understood process

●Not consistent across developers

●Virgin teams unlikely to succeed

●Unfinished is often Worthless

●Very rapid change

Page 8: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

MARGINAL����������� ������������������  COST����������� ������������������  OF����������� ������������������  GOODS����������� ������������������  IS����������� ������������������  ZERO

●(Digital only)

●Infinite supply

●Price tends to marginal cost = zero

Page 9: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

HIT����������� ������������������  DRIVEN

●Common for creative products

●Very uneven revenue distribution

●Financial predictability is very difficult

●Repeatability is even harder

●Average revenue of an iOS game is essentially $0.00

Page 10: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

INDUSTRY����������� ������������������  ECOSYSTEM

●Developers

● Work For Hire

● Own IP Exploitation

●Publishers

●Distribution

●(Retail)

Page 11: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

COMPLICATED����������� ������������������  NETWORK

●Outsourcers

●Tech suppliers

●Licensors

●Co-productions

●Services (QA, Loc)

●PR & Marketing

●Finance

Page 12: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

WORK����������� ������������������  FOR����������� ������������������  HIRE����������� ������������������  V����������� ������������������  OWN����������� ������������������  IP����������� ������������������  EXPLOITATION

●Exactly the same function

●Also radically different business

Page 13: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

SMALL����������� ������������������  INDUSTRY

●(In the West anyway)

●There are not many people engaged in the business of games

●Business is relationship based in small industries

●Business is relationship based in creative industries

●Business is relationship based in risky industries

Page 14: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

DEVELOPMENT����������� ������������������  BUSINESS����������� ������������������  MODELS

●Work For Hire

● Outsourcing

● Partial or Whole Games

● Ports, Versions, Sequels

●IP Exploitation

● Whole Games

● Mods, DLC

●Licensing

● patents, code, games, music

●Merchandising

Page 15: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

FUNDING����������� ������������������  DEVELOPMENT

●Game development needs some capital

●Not always very much compared to the potential return

●Often more than the actual return

Page 16: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

BASIC����������� ������������������  KNOWLEDGE

!

●Understand basic accounting

●Balance sheet & shareholder value

● Not just profit

●Return on investment is a time based function

Page 17: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

BUSINESS����������� ������������������  PLANNING

!

●Business models are simulations not static data points

●Change variables and model financial outcomes

●Project Budgets are the same

Page 18: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

SHOW����������� ������������������  ME����������� ������������������  THE����������� ������������������  MONEY

●Equity

●Project Finance

●Crowd Funding

●Grants/Government

●Commercial Funding

●Debt

Page 19: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

SOURCES����������� ������������������  OF����������� ������������������  EQUITY����������� ������������������  INVESTMENT

●Friends & Family - $?

● FFF Money

●Angels - $50K - $500K

● Relationship based

● slightly random

●V.C.s - over $1M

● Want to add money to a scaleable business

● Series A, B, C etc

Page 20: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

EQUITY����������� ������������������  INVESTMENT����������� ������������������  IN����������� ������������������  DEVELOPERS

●Very hard to achieve

●How do investors realise their investment?

● Trade sale

● Public Offering

●What tangible value is being created?

● Is it reliably repeatable?

● Independent of management?

Page 21: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

INVESTMENT����������� ������������������  RISK����������� ������������������  FACTORS

●Return = risk is always true

●Risk management is an investor’s concern

●Risk strategy is a key strategic decision for you

●Survivor Bias

Page 22: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

OWN����������� ������������������  IP����������� ������������������  EXPLOITATION����������� ������������������  IS����������� ������������������  HIGH����������� ������������������  RETURN

●Hit driven = Massive risk

●Simple business model

● run rate x time vs projected sales

●Repeatable?

● Brand/audience

●Scaleable?

●Saleable?

Page 23: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

WORK����������� ������������������  FOR����������� ������������������  HIRE����������� ������������������  IS����������� ������������������  LOW����������� ������������������  RISK

●All about cashflow

● Investors want to finance growth not operations

●Controlling costs, bringing in deals

● Capital does not help

●What increases shareholder value?

● Scale

● Build company brand and audience

●Hard to scale a service company

●Low margin = Low return

Page 24: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

PROJECT����������� ������������������  FINANCE

●Finance element of publishing function

●Returns are based on the revenue from the product

● Often in an SPV

●Usually specialist financiers

●Little or no interest in the development company

Page 25: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

CROWD����������� ������������������  FUNDING

●Not universally applicable

●Competitive & expensive to do

●Good marketability test for some games

●For them, consider it as marketing at least

Page 26: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

COMMERCIAL����������� ������������������  FUNDING����������� ������������������  (‘PUBLISHERS’)

●Specialist development funding from experts

● Expertise is good and bad

●Mostly tied to delivery not success

● Low risk

●Still widely available

●Publishers come with Marketing, Distribution, etc.

Page 27: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

DEBT����������� ������������������  FINANCING

●Not going to happen

●Can augment cashflow

●Future debt financing models

Page 28: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

ROYALTY����������� ������������������  ACCOUNTING

●Very time consuming

● Tax accounting (withholding tax, VAT)

● Currencies

● Chargebacks/reserves

●royalty audits

●Don’t pay with royalties

● Unless cashflow demands it

Page 29: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

SCOPE����������� ������������������  MANAGEMENT

●Scope is different to quality

●With live service games and DLC the connection is even weaker

Page 30: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

CLASSIC����������� ������������������  TRIANGLE

Page 31: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

GAME����������� ������������������  CREATION����������� ������������������  DIAMOND

Page 32: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

QUALITY����������� ������������������  VS����������� ������������������  SCOPE

●Scaling up a high quality game much easier than making a bloated game fun

●Smaller & finished is better than unfinished

● An unfinished game is worthless

●MVP/Paid for Beta

Page 33: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

MARKETING

●“Authentic marketing is not the art of selling what you make but knowing what to make.” -- Philip Kotler

●Creative - understand the audience better than they do

Page 34: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

ANALYTICS����������� ������������������  LED����������� ������������������  ITERATION

●Cutting edge of marketing

●A | B Split development and IAP very powerful

●Includes total control of price from $0.00 up

Page 35: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

GAME����������� ������������������  DESIGN����������� ������������������  IS����������� ������������������  MARKETING

●Marketing is the function of optimising product satisfaction

●Game Design is the same thing

Page 36: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

BEING����������� ������������������  IN����������� ������������������  THE����������� ������������������  LOOP

●Marketing is a critical business function

●Goes beyond product definition and promotion; Now a dialogue

● Includes QA

● Includes Customer Support

● Includes Community Management

Page 37: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

BRAND

●Risky businesses are reputation businesses

●You stand and fall with your brand

●Repeat business is the easiest & best business

Page 38: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

CORPORATE����������� ������������������  &����������� ������������������  PRODUCT����������� ������������������  BRANDING����������� ������������������  

●Different Brand Values required

●Seeking money?

● Need reliability, maturity, predictability

●Want creative kudos?

● Need innovative, edgy, different

Page 39: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

THE����������� ������������������  AUDIENCE����������� ������������������  -����������� ������������������  YOURS?

●Developers have a history of detachment from the audience

● Exploited ruthlessly by others to make money

●Your audience is one of the few things a developer can hold beyond the game

●Audience has value, maximise your involvement

Page 40: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

PEOPLE,����������� ������������������  TEAMS,����������� ������������������  STRUCTURE

●Development teams are

● smart, creative, mobile

● doing something difficult

● in a fiercely competitive market

● with big rewards for the winners

●about as difficult a management challenge imaginable

●Humility is essential

● Leadership challenging

Page 41: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

SCALE����������� ������������������  DISCONTINUITIES

●Break points:

● 15 People

● 35 People

● 75 People

● 125 People

Page 42: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

CORPORATE����������� ������������������  GOVERNANCE

●Most commercial law systems enshrine a minimum governance structure

●Commonly a board of directors of some kind

●Huge value in using this effectively to sanity check and get advice on generic business questions

Page 43: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

LEGAL����������� ������������������  ISSUES

●Contract represents the definition of the relationship and how to conduct it

●Massively important for WFH

● Often not negotiable for own IP

●Intimately understand:

● commercial terms

● Your obligations

● Communications protocols

Page 44: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

NEGOTIATION����������� ������������������  &����������� ������������������  FRAMEWORK

●Summation of negotiation

●On-going Framework

●Gaming the contract

● Profit

● Managing the relationship

●The client will do this

Page 45: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

IP����������� ������������������  OWNERSHIP,����������� ������������������  COPYRIGHT,����������� ������������������  PATENTS����������� ������������������  &����������� ������������������  TRADEMARKS

●Protecting yourself relatively easy & cheap

● Except for Trademarks

●Stopping infringements is costly and time consuming

● Only tends to be relevant if there is enough money to justify it

Page 46: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

NUCLEAR����������� ������������������  OPTION����������� ������������������  -����������� ������������������  LEGAL����������� ������������������  DISPUTE

●Remedy thru process effective

●Remedy thru courts is:

● Incredibly expensive

● Astonishingly time consuming

● Outcomes are uncertain

● Most cases settle

Page 47: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

LEGALS����������� ������������������  FOR����������� ������������������  PRODUCERS

●Write stuff down unambiguously

● Or NOT!

●Agreements don’t require exchange of signatures

●Disagree promptly & in writing

●Vague obligations are bad

● Unless they are on your suppliers

●Power lies with the side holding the money

Page 48: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

WFH����������� ������������������  V����������� ������������������  IP����������� ������������������  EXPLOIT

●The great divide between developers superficially doing the same thing

Page 49: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

WORK����������� ������������������  FOR����������� ������������������  HIRE

●buy out or advance royalty model

●publisher creative interference

●dangled/mismatched cashflow

●expert buyers

●Massive competition

●Pitches are ‘calling cards’

●All about reputation, relationships

●Low brand/audience value

●CASH

Page 50: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

WORK����������� ������������������  FOR����������� ������������������  HIRE����������� ������������������  TERMS

●10 - 20% royalty, Advance recoupment

●Growth = more or bigger projects

●Publisher recoups first

● They also control your costs

●Developers make money on the advance

●Terms dependent on your brand

●flat MM rates

●Publishers get co-op money

●Self defeating, troubled model

Page 51: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

IP����������� ������������������  EXPLOITATION

●‘Broader’ task

●Marketing, PR, royalties, licensing

●Freedom of spend

● Also the responsibility

● No product filter/external check

●Less legal

●Higher risk & return

●Developers need to love their game just enough and no more

Page 52: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

ACTUALLY����������� ������������������  A����������� ������������������  SPECTRUM

●Pre-sales

●Territory licensing

●Format exclusives

●Completion finance

●Completed games to publisher

●(Future performance marketing funds)

Page 53: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

HYBRID����������� ������������������  BUSINESS

●Successful IP Owning Businesses have no reason to become Work For Hire service businesses

●Starting as a WFH developer and trying to transition to own IP is a valid model

●But successful WFH developers require focus

● Same technical processes

● Totally different business models

●Very hard to combine both business models

Page 54: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

BUSINESS����������� ������������������  STRATEGY

●Lifestyle? WFH? Own IP?

●Management vs Engineering vs Creativity

●Exit route & time period?

●Risk profile?

Page 55: Producer Bootcamp Business 101 - twvideo01.ubm-us.nettwvideo01.ubm-us.net/.../Baverstock_Ian_Producer_Bootcamp_Business101.pdf · Game Design is the same thing. BEING IN THE LOOP

QUESTIONS?

●@ian_baverstock

●@tenshiconsult