rhode supreme court unauthorized practice of … › publicresources › ...turn it over to tom. mr....

9/5/2018 8:41 AM

. RHODE ISLAND SUPREME COURT' UNAUTHORIZED PRACTICE OF LAW COMMITTEE

IN RE: WILLIAM E. PAPLAUSKAS, JR. UPLC 2015-6

Appendix Vol. I

Table of Contents

Transcript, Vol. I (March 1, 2017)

Transcript, Vol. II (May 9, 2017)

Apgendix Vol. I

Table 0f Contents

Exhibit 1 Complaint (dated August 5, 2015).

. Exhibit 2 Notice of Complaint to Respondent (dated February 29, 2016)..

Exhibit 3 Response to Complaint (filed on March 15, 2016).

Exhibit 4 Notary Heid Harmless form.

Exhibit 5 Affidavit 0f Vincent Majewski.

Exhibit 6 Affidavit of Rebecca Majewski.

Exhibit 7 Subpoena from Committee to JPMorgan Chase Bank.

Exhibit 8 Subpbena from Committee to ServiceLink.

Exhibit 9 Records produced by JPMorgan Chase Bank in response to

subpoena.

- “A11 Terms Met.” Exhibit 9, pg.13.

- “Signature Verification Affidavit.” Exhibit 9, pg. 14.

.- “Signature Verification Page.” Exhibit 9, pg. 15.

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. - “Borrower’s Identification Statement.” Exhibit 9, pg. 16.

~ “Errors and Omissions/Compliance Agreement.” Exhibit 9, pg. 25.

- “Mortgage.” Exhibit 9, pg. 47-73.

Exhibit 10 Records produced by ServiceLink in response t0 subpoena.

- “Settlement Statement, HUD-l.” Exhibit 10, pg. 78-81.

- “Truth in Lending Disclosure.” Exhibit 10, pg. 86-87.

- “1m.” Exhibit 1 0, pg. 90~92.

- “Uniform Residential Loan Application.” Exhibit 10, pg. 93-96.

— “Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification.”

Exhibit 1 0, pg. 99.

- “Request for Transcript ofTax Return.” Exhibit 1 0, pg. 104.

. — “Document Correction Ageement.” Exhibit 1 0, pg. 108.

- “Lock—In Ageemen .” Exhibit 10, pg. 109-1 10.

- “Acknowledgement of Receipt of Appraisal/Evaluation.” Exhibit

1 0, pg. 111.

- “Notice ofNonrefundabilitv of Loan Fees.” Exhibit 1 0, pg. 117.

- “Mortgage Commitment Letter.” Exhibit 10, pg. 118-120.

- “Initial Escrow Account Disclosure Statement.” Exhibit 1 0, pg.

125.

~ “Tax Infonnation Sheet.” Exhibit 10, pg. 126.

- “Settlement Agent Fee Sheet.” Exhibit 1 0, pg. 13 1.

Exhibit 11 General Laws 1956 § 19-9-6. (Lending institutions — Title attorneys.)

Exhibit 12 General Laws 1956 § 42-30-8. (Powers of notaries.)

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.iExhibit 13

Exhibit 14

Exhibit 15

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Standards of Conduct for Notaries Public in the State of Rhode

Island.

Federal Trade Commission/Department 0f Justice Letter re:

Proposed Bill H. 7462 (dated March 29, 2002).

Federal Trade Commission/Department 0f Justice Letter re:

Comments on the American Bar Association’s Proposed Model

Definition of the Practice of Law (dated December 20, 2002).

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/'

In The Matter Of:

Hearing

William E. Paplauskas, Jr.

March 1, 201 7

ALLIEDwgCOURT REPORTERS, INC.

and

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9/5/201 8 8:43 AM

STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AND PROVIDENCE PLANTATIONSSUPREME COURT

UNAUTHORIZED PRACTICE OF LAW COMMITTEE

PROCEEDINGS AT HEARINGIN RE:

WILLIAM E. PAPLAUSKAS, JR.

PLACE: STATE OF RHODE ISLAND SUPREME COURTBOURCIER CONFERENCE ROOM, 7TH FLOOR250 BENEFIT STREETPROVIDENCE, RI 02903

DATE: March 1, 2017TIME: 1:30 P.M.

fl

PRESENT:DEBRA A. SAUNDERS, ESQ., CHAIRWOMANJANET GILLIGAN, ESQ.CAROLYN BARONE, ESQ.MEGAN MACIASZ DISANTO, ESQ.VINCENT VESPIA, JR.DAVID J. STRACHMAN, ESQ.THOMAS M. BERGERON, ESQ.

FOR THE RESPONDENT .......... GREGORY P. PICCIRILLI, ESQ.

Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-5500115 Phenix Avenue, Cranston, RI 02920

www.alliedcourtreporters.com

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I N D E X

WITNESS: William E. Paplauskas, Jr.

EXAMINATION:

By Mr. Bergeron ...................................By Ms. Gilligan ...................................By Ms. Barone .....................................By Ms. Maciasz DiSanto.................., .........Re-Examination by Ms. Barone ................. .....By Mr. Vespia ................................ .....By Mr. Strachman ..................................

E X H I B I T S

'NO. DESCRIPTION: UPLC'S

Exhibit 1. Complaint Letter from J. Pagliarini,Jr., Esq‘, dated 8/5/15 (3pp) ................

Exhibit 2. Letter from UPLC to W. Paplauskas,Jr., dated 2/29/16 (2pp) .....................

Exhibit 3. Letter from Attorney Piccirilli toUPLC dated 3/15/16 (5pp) .....................

Exhibit 2 marked as full ..........................

Exhibit 3 marked as full ..........................

Exhibit 4. Notary Held Harmless form dated7/21/15 (lpg) ................................

Exhibit 5. Affidavit of Vincent Majewski dated11/18/16 (2pp) ...............................

Exhibit 6. Affidavit of Rebecca Majewski dated11/18/16 (2pp) ...............................

Exhibit 7. Proof of Service of Subpoena servedon JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., dated 4/26/16(6pp) ........................................

PAGE

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www.a11iedcourtreporters.com

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Exhibit 8. Proof of Service of Subpoena servedon ServiceLink Management Company, LLC,dated 4/28/16 (6pp) ...........................

Exhibit 9. Subpoenaed Documents of JPMorganChase Bank, N.A., with Cover Letter (87pp)....

Exhibit 10. Subpoenaed Documents of ServiceLinkNLS, LLC, with Cover Letter (196pp) ...........

(Exhibit page count includes two—sided copying, ifapplicable)

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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - March 1, 2017

(HEARING COMMENCED AT 1:30 P.M.)

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: So this is aa

meeting of the Unauthorized Practice of Law

Committee, and we're here today on a complaint that

was received by the committee. It's dated August 5,

2015, and it was submitted by Attorney John A.

Pagliarini, Junior.

And just to provide you with an

overview, this is an investigatory hearing. The

rules of evidence are relaxed. And our attorney -—

who I believe you have had communications with,

Attorney Piccirilli —— Tom Bergeron, sitting to my

right, he will present for the committee today. So

unless'you have any questions, we'll go ahead and

turn it over to Tom.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Okay.

MR. BERGERON: As Ms. Saunders said, my

name is Tom Bergeron. I serve as counsel to the

committee. Just a few preliminary things before we

get started: The function of the committee is to

investigate whether or not you have engaged in the

unauthorized practice of law, and to make a

recommendation to the Supreme Court according to

what the committee finds.

This is an investigation hearing, and



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the committee doesn't have the authority to impose a

penalty or sanction upon you. As the Chair said,

this particular complaint that we're hefe about was

filed by Attorney John Pagliarini, alleging that you

engaged in the unauthorized --

THE RESPONDENT: He\is not here?

MR. PICCIRILLI: Don't talk.

THE RESPONDENT: I'm sorry.

MR. BERGERON: The complaint is related

to the conducting of a real estate closing on July

21, 2015, in Tiverton. According to the committee's

rules, it's my function to present the complaint,

and for the committee to consider.

You have a right to consult with your

attorney at any time during the hearing. If you

need a break for any reason, simply notify your

attorney, and he will request the break. Again, due

to the investigational nature of the hearing, the

rules of evidence are slightly relaxed.

And your attorney has been provided

with a copy of the documents that are going to be

produced today. And your attorney does have the

right to object to any evidence, and the chairwoman

will make a ruling if necessary.

As you can see, the hearing is being

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recorded by a stenographer, and you're entitled to

receive a copy of the transcript at no charge to

you. That should resolve the preliminary issues,

unless Mr. Piccirilli has any questions at this

time.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Well, I have a number

of questions and a number of issues. I don't know

if now is the appropriate time to bring them up. If

you want me to, I will.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Sure.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Well, first of all,

and perhaps your attorney has brought this to your

attention, or not, I don't know, but the first issue

I have is whether or not this committee is subject

to the open meetings law.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: No, it is not.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Is there a definitive

ruling on that?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. The Open

Meetings and the Public Records Act apply to the

judiciary only in their administrative function.

This function is to determine whether or not -—

MR. PICCIRILLI: Is there a statute on

that?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. I'm



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - March l, 2017

drawing a blank. Is it 38(b)? I'm not sure.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'll look it up. I

looked on the open meetings law, I didn't see any

exclusions under that statute.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: It only applies

to the judiciary in its administrative function.

This is a judicial function within the judiciary's

and the Supreme Court's exclusive jurisdiction of

the practice of law.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Okay. That was the

first question. The next qfiestion I have is, your

rules of procedure, which I'm assuming this

committee adopted ——

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: And the Supreme

Court.

MR. PICCIRILLI: -— and the governing

rules of the committee reference a complaint. My

understanding is a complaint is something issued by

this board, not by an individual. An individual can

make a report to this committee.

Under the powers and duties of the

committee under Rule 4, it says one of your powers

is to investigate all reports of activity which may

constitute the unauthorized practice of law, and to

hold hearings to determine whether the charges are



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9/5/201 8 8:43 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — March 1, 2017

substantiated or unsubstantiated. And then under

your rules of procedure, there is a notice to the

respondent of a complaint -- the respondent is

supposed to be provided with a complaint.

The letter from Mr. Pagliarini is not a

complaint as envisioned by your rules. A complaint

should be produced by this committee setting forth

the allegations specifically as to what facts are at

issue, and what specific violations of law the

respondent is being accused of.

This letter from Mr. Pagliarini,

besides being intemperate, unprofessional,

containing rank hearsay, references one issue

revolving around 11-27-2, the giving or tendering to

another person for consideration, direct or

indirect, of any advice or counsel pertaining to a

law question or a court action or judicial

proceeding.

The only possible thought I can have is

the allegation by Mr. Pagliarini is that my client

was providing counsel pertaining to a law question,

because he certainly wasn't involved in a court

action or judicial proceeding. What specifically

“was the advice thatwmymclient_allegedlymgave‘tgua

law question? In fact, the affidavits which you



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have provided to me by both Vincent and Rebecca

Majewski spécifically said Mr. Paplauskas did not

provide any legal advice. It's curious. I don't

know who prepared these affidavits. They were

clearly prepared by someone with some legal

knowledge. They were notarized in Massachusetts. I

would like to know who prepared those for him.

MR. BERGERON: I prepared those.

MR. PICCIRILLI: That's interesting.

But, again, what is the complaint here? I'm used

to, and all the attorneys here are used to a process

where you get a document and a complaint, and it

sets forth, specifically, allegations that then we

can either refute, deny, admit, or otherwise answer.

How do I answer this? How do I answer

a letter from two years ago, from an attorney who is

not even here to substafitiate or even testify as to

his complaint? It's absurd. This is totally

inappropriate.

I don't know if this is how you guys

always have operated, but I must say, if this is how

you operate, I don't think it's permissible under

your own rules, certainly not under the Supreme

Court provision. I do not have a complaint before

me that my client can respond to.



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CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Piccirilli,

so it is customary practice, and in conformance with

our rules, that we receive complaints by letter, and

the process is as follows: We receive a complaint,

a screening panel is, I guess, appointed. The

complaint is screened by the panel for

determination, almost like a 12(b)(6), taking all

the allegations as true.

Do we feel as though there's probable

cause that the individual engaged in the practice of

law, and whether or not that practice was

authorized. So the basis, again, for this hearing,

it's an investigational hearing. And also pursuant

to those rules, your client was given a copy of the

complaint, which is the letter of Mr. Pagliarini.

He was asked to acknowledge receipt and

return it to us, which he did. I'm not sure of the

exact date of when that happened. And it pretty

much indicates the specifics of the complaint. And

also pursuant to our rules, we can, sua sponte,

investigate any concerns that we might have. So I

think, at this point, we can proceed.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Well, I'm not done.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Go on.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I am not done.



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CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Sure.

MR. PICCIRILLI: So I guess we're going

to take this August 5, 2015 letter as a complaint.

Again, I haven't gotten an answer to my question,

which is, if we are using this as the complaint,

what allegations are that my client gave advice for

consideration pertaining to a law question?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Pagliarini,

we're here to determine ——

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'm not

Mr. Pagliarini.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry.

Mr. Piccirilli, we're here today to determine

whether or not your client's handling of the closing

or anything that may have happened at that closing

constitutes the practice of law, and if so, whether

or not it was authorized.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Okay. And what

statute requires, says that closings have to be

conducted by an attorney?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I'm not sure that

we have a statute, but it's ——

MR. PICCIRILLI: Oh, I know you don't.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: —— but it's the

Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court alone, that can



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determine what constitutes the practice of law. And

even if we look to what is customarily done by

lawyers, that's what we're here to decide, whether

or not what he did was, in fact, the practice of law

and something that should have been done by a

lawyer.

MR. PICCIRILLI: And, again, what is it

exactly that you claim he did that is customarily

performed by lawyers, even though it's not in any

statute?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Handling a

closing, Mr. Piccirilli.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Handling a closing?

How do you define handling a closing?


we're here to present an investigation. Do you have

anything further?

MR. PICCIRILLI: Apparently, you're

going to run this any way you want. Go ahead.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Tom?

MR. BERGERON: At the outset, I'd just

like to introduce a series of, essentially, the

primary filings that were done by the various

parties to this. So I'd like to mark these as

exhibits.



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EXHIBIT 1 (UPLC Exhibit marked for I.D.)



MR. BERGERON: These are the documents,

1, 2, and 3. And for the committee, these are the

top three documents in your packet. Exhibit 1 is

the complaint as filed by Attorney Pagliarini.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I object to it.

MR. BERGERON: I would ask that it come

in as the complaint pursuant to our rules.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: It can come in.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'm going to object

because the person who prepared this complaint is

not here.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: It's just a

complaint, Mr. Piccirilli.

MR. PICCIRILLI: But it's not

authenticated by the person, he is not here. I have

a right to question him on it. You should have

subpoenaed him to be here.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I'm going to

allow it in.

MR. BERGERON: Exhibit NUmber 2 is a

letter fram the committee to Mr. Paplauskas simply

notifying him of the complaint. I would ask that it



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come in.

MR. PICCIRILLI: No objection.

EXHIBIT 2 (UPLC Exhibit marked as full)

MR. BERGERON: Exhibit Number 3 is a

letter from Attorney Piccirilli to the committee and

a response to the complaint. This is a letter dated

March 15, 2016. I would ask that that come in as

the official written response of Mr. Paplauskas.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I don't have an

objection to it coming in as a document. I do

object to your characterization of it. It is not a

response to a complaint, because there is no

complaint in this case.

MR. BERGERON: Understood. I would

still move that it come in as full.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. The first

sentence, Mr. Piccirilli, "Please consider this as

Mr. Paplauskas' response to the complaint....“

MR. PICCIRILLI: "Complaint letter."

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.

EXHIBIT 3 (UPLC Exhibit marked as full)

MR. BERGERON: I'd like to ask to have

Mr. Paplauskas sworn in as a witness.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'm not going to allow

that.



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CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.

MR. BERGERON: Are you asserting his

right not to —— what basis are you —-

MR. PICCIRILLI: Well, first of all,

you didn't subpoena him here. You sent a

threatening letter saying that you have the

authority to order him here without a subpoena.

You know, it's been a while since I

read the Magna Carta, but I think 800 years of

Anglo—American jurisprudence prohibits anybody from

compelling someone to attend a public hearing like

this without some type of due process.


he was noticed. This is simply an investigational

hearing --

MR. PICCIRILLI: Then you don't need to

swear him in right now. Put your case on. You're

not going to make it through my guy.

MR. BERGERON: I will just assert one

more time, I'm asking that he testify -—

MR. PICCIRILLI: Go get a subpoena in

Superior Court ordering him to do that.

MR. BERGERON: Mr. Paplauskas, what is

your date of birth?

MR. PICCIRILLI: He's not answering any



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of your questions at this time.

MR. BERGERON: Okay. The next document

I would like to come in —— I will have you mark some

more exhibits, please.




MR. PICCIRILLI: Off the record, if

it's okay with you?

(OFF THE RECORD)

MR. BERGERON: These are the next three

documents in your packet. First, which has beenA

marked as Exhibit 4, this document titled "Notary

Held Harmless Agreement," or excuse me, simply

"Notary Held Harmless."

This was received as part of

Mr. Paplauskas's response, as well as in documents

provided which will be introduced later, produced by

JPMorgan Chase Bank, and also ServiceLink. So I

would ask that this come in.


MR. BERGERON: The next two documents,

marked Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 6, these are

affidavits. The first, Exhibit 5, is the affidavit

of Vincent Majewski, and Exhibit 6 is the affidavit



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of Rebecca Majewski. Just for the committee's

information, Mr. and Mrs. Majewski are husband and

wife, and they were the buyers in the subject

closing which we're here to discuss.

I made several requests for the

Majewskis to appear today to testify; however, due

to their location out of state, they advised me that

they would be unavailable. In an effort to fill out

the record, and for some input by the Majewskis, I

requested that they review these affidavits, which

they signed and had notarized verifying various

facts that are before the committee right now.

MR. PICCIRILLI: As I mentioned, or

questioned, so it appears, Mr. Bergeron, that you

actually prepared these documents and sent them to

these individuals to sign?

MR. BERGERON: Indeed, I did.

MR. PICCIRILLI: And how did you know

what to write?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: He is not, he

isn't testifying.

MR. BERGERON: I'm not testifying at

this point.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Okay.

MR. BERGERON: First, I would ask that



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both these affidavits come into the record.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Do you want to

just move them all at the end, and if you have a

specific objection, you can raise it once ——

MR. PICCIRILLI: I think I'm just going

to have a general objection to all of them.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. Just go

through them.

MR. BERGERON: I'd ask that they come

in. And just for the record, and for the

committee's information, I will just read the

affidavit of Vincent Majewski.

Mr. Majewski's affidavit reads, "I,

Vincent Majewski, after being duly sworn, upon oath,

depose.and say as follows: 1, that I am the owner

of real estate property located at 528 Nanaquaket

Road, Tiverton, Rhode Island 02878, Tiverton Tax

Assessor's Plat 403, Lot 167.

"2, that I own said real estate

property jointly with my wife, Rebecca Majewski; 3,

that on July 21, 2015, a real estate closing was

conducted at the law office of John A. Pagliarini,

Jr., in Tiverton, Rhode Island, for the purpose of

executing documents necessary to secure my ownership

of said real estate property located at 528



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Nanaquaket Road, Tiverton, Rhode Island; 4, that

William E. Paplauskas, Jr., a notary public,

appeared at said real estate closing on July 21,

2015, in possession of real estate closing documents

intended to secure my ownership in said real estate

property.

"5, that at the beginning of said real

estate closing, William E. Paplauskas presented me

with a document titled 'Notary Held Harmless,‘ which

indicated that he was acting only as a notary

public, that he was not an attorney, and that he was

not authorized to discuss any aspects of the real

estate closing documents, and that I signed said

Notary Held Harmless form at the.time it was

presented to me.

"6, that during said real estate

closing, I signed or initialed each real estate

closing document presented to me by William E.

Paplauskas, Jr., and where necessary, my signatures

were witnessed and attested to by William E.

Paplauskas, Jr., in his capacity as a notary

public." Signed, Vincent Majewski.






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MR. BERGERON: Marked as Exhibit 7, I

have a proof of service received by this office from

the sheriff's department. It's a return of service

for a subpoena for documents from JPMorgan Chase

Bank. The documents themselves are forthcoming, but

this is the proof of service.

Exhibit 8 is, similarly, the same type

of proof of service for a subpoena of documents,

except this is for ServiceLink Corporation. I'm

putting both of those into the record. Exhibit 9,

what I have marked as Exhibit 9, on the top, it's

the letterhead for JPMorgan Chase.

These are the subpoenaed documents as

pertaining to the relevant closing as received by

this office from JPMorgan Chase Bank. Because of

the volume of these, I would just like to highlight

a few documents for the committee's attention, just

so they have an understanding of what we have.

I would first note that all the

redactions in the documents were done by JPMorgan

Chase before returning them to me, and I have added

the Bates-stamping at the bottom for ease of

reference. So I draw the committee's attention to

page 13. And I'm doing this just because there's

several variations of the documents, so I'd like to



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go through just so the committee can see what

documents are in existence. Page 13 is a document

titled "A11 Terms Met." I won't go through the

document, but I would just note the signatures of

Vincent and Rebecca Majewski, as well as the

notarization by Mr. Paplauskas.

Page 14 is a signature certification

affidavit for Vincent Majewski. I see

Mr. Majewski's signature, as well as

Mr. Paplauskas's notarization at the bottom. Page

15 is the same type of signature certification, this

time for Rebecca Majewski.

At the bottom, you will see

Ms. Majewski's signature, as well as,

Mr. Paplauskas's notarization. Page 16 is titled

"Borrowers Identification Statement." Again, I

won't go through the details of the document, but

you will see the signatures of Mr. Majewski and

Mrs. Majewski, as well as the notarization by

Mr. Paplauskas.

Turning to page 25, this document is

titled “Error and Omissions," slash, "Compliance

Agreement." For the committee, I would note the

signatures of Mr. and Mrs. Majewski, as well as the

notarization by Mr. Paplauskas. Turning to page 47,



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this document is titled "Mortgage," and runs from

page 47 to 63. Turning to page 62 of that document,

of that same mortgage document, I would note the

signatures of Mr. and Mrs. Majewski, and turning to

page 63, a notarization of those signatures by

Mr. Paplauskas. That's all for that package coming

into the record.


MR. BERGERON: The final document_that

I have has been marked as Exhibit 10. It should be

the final large packet of documents in everybody's

package. The front cover is a letterhead from

ServiceLink. And these are documents received by

this office in response to its subpoena of documents

to ServiceLink.

And these are what we were provided in

response. Again, there are a few documents that I'd

like to go through for the committee's reference.

Turning to page 78, this is a document titled

"Settlement Statement, HUD-l." This document spans

from page 78 to 81 of the package.

For the committee's reference, I would

note the initials VM and RM at the bottom of each

consecutive page, and on page 81, the final page of

the document, the signatures of Mr. and



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Mrs. Majewski. Turning to page 86, this document is

titled "Truth-in—Lending Disclosure Statement."

’This is just a two—page document. On the front

page, I would note the initials VM and RM, and on

page 87, I'd note the signatures of Mr. and

Mrs. Majewski.


titled "Note," and spans to page 92. 0n page 92, I

draw the committee's attention to the signature of

Vincent Majewski. Page 93, this is a document

titled "Uniform Residential Loan Application." This

is a four-page document, but on page 95, I would

draw the committee's attention to the signature of

Mr. Majewski, and, also, on page 96, the signature

of Vincent Majewski.


titled "Request for Taxpayer Identification Number

and Certification." Right”there on page 99, I draw

the committee's attention to the signature of

Mr. Majewski. Turning to page 104, this document is

titled "Request for Transcript of Tax Return."

At the bottom of that page, I'd note

the signature of Vincent Majewski. Turning to page

108, this document is titled "Document Correction

Agreement." At the bottom of that page, I draw the



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9/5/201 8 8:43 AM

William E. Paplauskas,IJr. - March 1, 2017

24

committee's attention to the signature of Vincent

Majewski. Turning the page to 109, this document is

titled "Lock-In Agreement," and the signature line

for that document is on page 110, and I would note

the signature of Vincent Majewski.

Page 117, this document is titled

"Notice of Nonrefundability of Loan Fees." At the

bottom of the page, or I should say, the middle of

the page, is the signature of Mr. Majewski. .Page

118, this document is titled "Mortgage Commitment

Letter." 0n page 120 is the signature line, which I

would note is signed by Mr. majewski.


titled "Initial Escrow Account Disclosure

Statement." I would note at the bottom, for the

committee, the initials VM. Page 126, the document

is titled "Tax Information Sheet." At the bottom of

the document are the initials VM.


titled "Settlement Agent Fee Sheet." And I draw the

committee's attention to the middle of the document,

simply noting there is a line in the box that's

titled "Title Charges," second line says

"Settlement," slash, "Closing Fee."

Turning to page 135, the document is



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titled "Residential First.Mortgage Closing

Instructions." Turning to page 150, there's no

title on this document, but the first line says,

"Updated Shipping Instructions." At the bottom, I

would note the signature of Mr. Paplauskas. Page

152, this document is titled "Warranty Deed."

And that's all I have to point out for

the committee in those documents. And I'd ask that

that be taken into the record. If Mr. Paplauskas is

not going to be subject to answer any more

questions, then I would simply say that I have no

further exhibits to introduce, and I would turn the

floor to Mr. Piccirilli to make any statements or

further summation that he would like to.

MR. PICCIRILLI: This is it? You have

no witnesses, no other evidence to present?

MR . BERGERON: NO .

MR. PICCIRILLI: You close your case?


Member Barone, Carolyn Barone, suggested, too, that

I remind you that, according to our rules, the rules

of procedure, Subsection K on page 3 indicates that

"The respondent shall attend the hearing without the

necessity of a subpoena being served upon him or

her. He or she shall take the witness stand and



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shall testify in the same manner as if under

subpoena." Just want to -—

MR. PICCIRILLI: I don't find that to

be a constitutional rule.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I'm just bringing

it to your attention.

MR. PICCIRILLI: You cannot compel

someone to attend a hearing without a subpoena or

some summons or some other legal process. I mean,

we're all lawyers here, most of us, except Chief

Vespia ~—

MR. VESPIA: That doesn't make me a bad

MR. PICCIRILLI: —- who actually

probably knows more about law than a lot of us

sitting around here. My dad used to do a lot of

work for Mr. Vespia. But we all know that if you

get served with a complaint in court, if you get

served with a complaint in any proceeding, there is

a summons, there is a subpoena to compel your

attendance.

Now, it doesn't mean you —- you can

invite my client to come, you can tell him if he

doesn't come, there are consequences that may flow

from that. But to compel someone to attend a



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hearing without some form of legal process, I find

that fundamentally violative of what due process is

all about. I mean, don't any of you lawyers agree

with me?

MR. STRACHMAN: Due process is about

notice; you received notice. Due process is about

an opportunity to be heard; you filed a response to

the complaint. Due process is about the ability to

make your case; you were able to make your case, you

were invited to respond.

Due process is about not the formality

of service of process. Didn't the Supreme Court

approve these rules?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: The Supreme Court

has approved these rules.

MR. STRACHMAN: So these are our law.

This is the same as the law of subpoenas and the

chapter in Title 10 that says "Subpoenas." These

are all laws. So I just want to be clear, you're

not saying anybody is pulling a fast one on you, or

you're going to reschedule this at your convenience

or your client's convenience, or you didn't know

what was going on today, or you didn't have an

opportunity to look at any of these records ——

MR. PICCIRILLI: That's correct.



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MR. STRACHMAN: I mean, the citation to

the Magna Carta, I think, is interesting, but I

mean, this isn't high school, this is a proceeding.

We have the right to proceed as the Supreme Court

said to proceed.

MR. PICCIRILLI: If I can just clarify

something? Because I don't have access to whether

or not -- maybe there is an administrative rule

somewhere, maybe you can provide.it to me. I

understand there is a statute. I understand there‘s

governing rules which the Supreme Court adopted, but

then there's rules of procedure.

I thought this board adopted the rules

of procedure. I didn't think the Supreme Court

approved the rules of procedure.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: The Supreme Court

has approved them.

MR. PICCIRILLI: They have specifically

approved them?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.

MR. STRACHMAN: Isn't this body an arm

of the Supreme Court, an administrative arm of the

Supreme Court?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: It is.

MR. STRACHMAN: It's not a bar



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association. It's not a statutory function. It's a

function of the Supreme Court, who said implement

this.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Which is a

licensing authority and has exclusive jurisdiction

over the practice of law in Rhode Island.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Again, and I take

Member Strachman's point about the notice, but

there's two different things between notice and

compelling him to answer questions. Those are two

fundamentally different things.

And so I don't necessarily agree that,

even though we have notice to this whole hearing ~-

and I'm not disputing that at all, and quite

frankly, even if there was a requirement to have a

subpoena, I'm sure I would have agreed with

Mr. Bergeron to have my client attend voluntarily.

I would never not do that. I just, I

read that rule, and I find it not appropriate. And

I think that, I would hope that this committee and

maybe the Supreme Court will revisit exactly what

role they think they have to compel someone.

I would be curious if the Supreme Court

thought that they would have the power to send a

letter to someone, the chief judge of the Supreme



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Court send a letter to someone saying, "You must

attend." And if the person didn't attend, what?

Are you going to put him in jail? What are you

going to do? What is the penalty for not attending?

MR. STRACHMAN: If he's not here to

present evidence, I don't think you can present

evidence for him. He has a right to invoke certain

privileges. Maybe he has another privilege that

says he can't testify or shouldn't testify. But we

have the right to proceed. The Supreme Court told

us to.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: It's an

investigation.

MR. PICCIRILLI: You're proceeding,

but, again, Mr. Bergeron is trying to compel

Mr. Paplauskas to testify. And, again, I think

those are two separate things. The case has rested.

I have a right to respond. Before I respond, I

think the case, as presented, fails on the facts.

You have no direct evidence that my

client did anything that would even come close to

being the practice of law. Forget about, clearly,

he didn't do anything to violate 11—27-2, which is

the statute that delineatee what the unauthorized

practice of law is. I'm mindful of what the Supreme



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Court said in the Little Compton case that says that

the Supreme Court is the ultimate authority to

determine what that is, and it may exceed or go

beyond what the statute says. Or, as in that case,

the court said, Even though the statute says that,

we're going to find by common practice that union

representatives can do certain things that are

otherwise customarily performed by lawyers.

But if it's not 11-27—2, and if it's a

common practice, where is your expert witness?

Where is your witness to testify that says only

lawyers have historically conducted closings in

Rhode Island? Where is your witness to say that?

You're just assuming that.

Mr. Pagliarini can't be the person that

says that, because he wrote it in his letter. His

letter contains blatant falsehoods, by the way. And

you know what? Mr. Paplauskas, I will have him

testify if you deny my motion, because he will

refute specifically the false allegations.

Which, quite frankly, I think

Mr. Pagliarini should be brought up before the

disciplinary council for his explicit falsehoods to

this committee. He knew they were false when he

wrote them. He is the one that should be



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investigated, quite frankly. And I'm going to ask

that this board issue a subpoena to compel him to

testify. I want another hearing date, and I want

him here. I want to cross—examine him under oath as

to some of these blatant falsehoods that he put in

his letter.

MS. BARONE: You can do that.

MR. BICCIRILLI: And I Will. Thank

you.

MS. BARONE: You had that right to do

that today. You had a right for discovery.

\

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: You had a chance,

and I don't recall receiving a request before today.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Because I didn't know

how this hearing was going to proceed. And quite

frankly, I'm going to renew my request that this

complaint be dismissed right now, because you have

presented zero evidence as to what the custom and

practice is of conducting closings in this state.

I think all of us around here know that

we've gone to a bank to refinance a mortgage, and

there's no attorney, there's a bank manager that

conducts the refinance of your line of credit.

That's done all the time. We all know that two

people who want to sell property to each other can



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do that without an attorney. It might not be a

smart thing to d6. But if I own property, I can

prepare my own deed, have it notarized, and hand it

over to a buyer. There are a bunch of closing

documents which relate to a federally governed

statute. The federal law governs those closing

documents.

No state law in Rhode Island governs

that. Zero state law in Rhode Island governs the

mortgage documents, except the actual mortgage

itself. And you have uncontradicted evidence, an

affidavit from the two buyers, saying that

Mr. Paplauskas never provided any type of advice as

to what, legal advice as to those documents.

So why are we here? I know why we're

here. There are a lot of members of the bar, myself

included, that do real estate closings, and we don't

want the competition. Business is bad, we all know

that. That's really what this is all about in every

other state, you know that.

You know Massachusetts went through,

there's a Supreme Court case in Massachusetts

distinguishing between certain types of closings and

other types of closings, and how those closings may

or may not be conducted. I'm going to have



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Mr. Paplauskas, if you don't grant my motion, he

will testify that, in Massachusetts, an attorney

doesn't go to a closing, even a sale, but if

somebody wants an attorney, you call them up on the

phone, "Do you need any legal advice, yes or no?"

And then they hang up.

So there's no evidence to suggest that

the buyers here were prohibited from hiring an

attorney, were encouraged not to hire an attorney,

none of that. There's no evidence of any of that.

So what is the custom and practice specifically that

you're accusing my client of performing, and how is

that the unauthorized practice of law?

I think that's a fair question. And

you have dragged him here, made him pay his own

legal fees, when you could have done this without

dragging him here. You could have had ServiceLink

come here. You could have had some big, you know,

all these companies who are really making the big

bucks off of these closings by not hiring attorneys.

You could have dragged them in here and

subjected them to these questions. Isn't it more

appropriate to ask ServiceLink, do they have any

Rhode Island attorneys that review the title or do

any of that? Wouldn't you ask ServiceLink that?



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Why are you asking him? It's so unfair. You drag

this man here on this, I mean, offensive letter,

absolutely outrageously offensive letter, by some

guy who is a state legislator and thinks he can boss

you people around. That's offensive. It's

outrageous.


are you making a motion, or are you --

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'm moving right now

to ask this board to end this farce right now, let

my client get out of here. And if you want to

proceed as to how closings, what aspects of closings

should be conducted by an attorney or not, you can

do that without dragging my client through this.

You can do that by getting industry

people in here. You can get closing attorneys, you

can get mortgage people. You can do it in a more

appropriate manner than beating up on my poor little

guy.


we are here investigating a complaint. It's our

job, after the conclusion of this hearing, to

compile a report, a recommendation, and provide it

to the Supreme Court. And that is the stage of the

proceeding that we're at. So we're here for the



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hearing. I remind you of the rule that indicates

that the respondent shall appear and shall testify.

You have indicated that your client is not

testifying -—

MR. PICCIRILLI: No, I didn't. I just

indicated that if’you deny my motion, I will have

him testify. But are you directing this committee

not to respond to my motion?

MR. BERGERON: Well, I think we would

take your motion into consideration.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We can ~-

MR. PICCIRILLI: You're doing that, or

the board is doing that —— or the committee is doing

that?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I'm here as

chair, and I'm handling the conducting of these

proceedings. There is really no motion practice

before this committee. We're here investigating a

complaint. We received a complaint, I will go over

it again.

We formed a three-person screening

panel that reviewed the allegations and found that,

taken as true, there is probable cause that the

unauthorized practice of law was committed by the

handling of this closing by Mr. Paplauskas. Under



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our rules, we then noticed the hearing, and that's

why we are here today. Mr. Bergeron has now rested,

presented the materials in support of the

investigation. ‘Do you have anything that you would

like to eay at this point? Does any member of the

committee have any questions for Tom?

MR. VESPIA: We've rested. Does that

mean, I assume it means that no further questions

can be posed?

MR. STRACHMAN: I'm sorry to interrupt,

but it's like we're half pregnant here. Is he

testifying or not testifying? Supreme Court said he

is here to testify. You have the right to instruct

him not to testify if you feel that there's a

privilege or some statutory violation.

But we all want to hear what he has to

say. I think we've been waiting for months to hear

what he has to say. I think he would help clarify a

few things. I don't think this is as adversarial as

you necessarily think it is. And we'd like to hear

from the gentleman and move on.

So could we get a ruling as to whether

we're going forward with him or not? Because I

think we have a series of questions to ask him that

would help elucidate this situation.



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MR. PICCIRILLI: Just so I'm clear for

the record, and again, I'm surprised that you don't

have a motion practice, but if you don't, then I

guess you don't. If that's what the board —-

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Well, you can

make any motion, and I can say that we can vote.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Well, I just did.

That's what my whole argument has been for the last

15 minutes. I'm moving to dismiss this complaint.

The only complaint you have is this letter from

August 5, 2015. The complainant is not here to

testify about it. You have presented no evidence in

support of this complaint at a11.

You haven't presented any evidence to

suggest that if it's not a violation of state law,

it's a violation of some common practice. You

haven't presented any testimony by any experts, by

anybody who would be able to testify.

I wasn't involved in the Little Compton

case, but my guess was that when that case was

before you, there was testimony, extensive testimony

by union representatives on either side saying this

has been the common practice since the 19305.

And the Supreme Court was obviously

very impressed by that argument. So where are those



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people that testified that absolutely under no

circumstances has this ever happened in Rhode

Island; absolutely, this is a common law and

practice in Rhode Island; absolutely, every single

real estate closing, whether it's a sale, a

mortgage, a line of credit?

You know, we're going to tell every

single bank in this state that your bank manager can

no longer have somebody sign a line of credit,

because that is the practice of law. Where is that

person to testify? Because, otherwise, you're just

flying blind, aren't you?

And you want to make your case out of

my guy? It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make

any sense how you're proceeding here.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to

move this along. We will reserve decision on your

motion. Would you like to proceed?

MR. PICCIRILLI: So you, as chair, get

to decide that? I'm assuming you're the chair?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Why don't we take

a break, and we can chat amongst ourselves.

MS. BARONE: We will go into executive

session on the motion.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Thank you.


www.alliedcourtreoorters.com

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*Qéfz'm 8—8z43 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — March l, 2017

(Committee in Executive Session, 2:26 p.m. to 2:55 p.m.)


we discussed your motion. Your motion is denied.

We would now ask if you would, in fact, like

Mr. Paplauskas, your client, to testify. If so, we

would reopen our case to give Mr. Bergeron the

opportunity to ask him some questions and allow you

the opportunity to do the same. How would you like

to proceed?

MR. PICCIRILLI: Would it be

appropriate, since it's my case now, that I call my

client first, and then be subject to

cross-examination? That's my practice. You know,

your case rested, I made a motion ~—

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Our case rested

based upon your refusal to allow your client to

testify.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Okay. You know what,

I'm just going to put on the record that I don't

believe the procedures that you're following are

appropriate. And I hope, at some point, when the

court reviews this record, if they do, that they

will address what I think are serious deficiencies

in the manner in which this committee operates. If

you want to reopen -— do whatever you want. my

40



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client will answer any questions that you have.

MR. BERGERON: Okay.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Would you swear

in the witness.

(WITNESS SWORN)

THE WITNESS: William E. Paplauskas,

Jr., P-A—P-L—A-U—S-K—A-S.

MR. BERGERON: Mr. Paplauskas --

THE WITNESS: Before I answer any

questions, I want to say one thing.

MR. BERGERON: Sure.

THE WITNESS: Thank you, Mr. Vespia,

for your honorable service to the State of Rhode

Island.

MR. VESPIA: Thank you very much. Very

nice of you to say that.

EXAMINATION BY MR. BERGERON

Mr. Paplauskas, what is your date of birth?

A. 12/3/1947.

And what is your current occupation?

A. I'm a notary public, mortgage closer.

I just want to ask you a little bit about your

professional history and your educational history.

Did you go to high school?

A. I'm a high school graduate from Central High



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School. I've been in the mortgage business since

1969.

Did you go to any school or training after high

school?

A. Hard knocks.

Excellent. Did you ever go to law school?

A. No.

Have you ever been admitted to practice law in any

state?

A. No.

And you said you're a notary public. How long have

you been functioning as a notary?

A. Off and on since 1969.

And have you done that as your primary occupation?

A. Yes. The last ten years.

I'm sorry. Can you repeat how long?

A. Full time for ten years.

And just generally about that process, how does that

work, do people contact you to come notarize

documents?

A. No. I get referrals from title companies and

other signing agencies.

So is your business almost exclusive to corporate

clients, as opposed to individuals?

A. That's correct.



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And are you paid in that job, do you get paid?

A. Yes.

And how do you get paid? Do you get paid -—

A. By the closer.

Okay. And how much do you charge for your services?

A. It varies depending on what type of closing I'm

doing. It could be anywhere from $75 to $125.

Are you, in any instances, are you paid a salary by

any of these companies?

A. No. I am not an employee. I'm an impartial

witness.

And do you act as —- you're employed by yourself,

you don't work for a notary agency?

A. No.

So you're a freelance notary?

A. That's correct. I don't kill it, I don't eat

it.

Okay. And it sounds like you have experience in

real estate closings as a notary?

A. Since 1969.

And you've been doing real estate closings since

then?

A. Yes.

Can you estimate how many per year you have; how

often do you do these?



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A. How many per year since 1969?

How about in the last five years, how many --

A. Probably aboutllo to 20 thousand.

Per year?

A. No. Total.

How many did you do last year?

A. I average probably about 75 a month. Are you

asking me this question because Mr. Pagliarini, back

in 2002, the attorneys tried to put through an act

where only attorneys would do closings -—

Mr. Paplauskas --

A. I have a question about that. Because it seems

like what Mr. Pagliarini is trying to do -— who

never attended that closing, by the way. So that

letter that he writes as a person that was involved

with the closing, he was never in the room.

The attorney that was in the roam never filed a

complaint. I find it interesting that I have

somebody that has no firsthand knowledge of what

happened in that room, but yet, he is saying that I

violated law.

He hasn't pointed out what part of that closing

I violated the law in, but yet, he is, I think it's

a back-door attempt to get the Supreme Court to

rule, to make law from the bench, where they



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wouldn't do it before, under —-

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Excuse me,

Mr. Paplauskas. Mr. Bergeron is just asking you

questions. This is an investigative hearing —-

THE WITNESS: I understand. I want you

to know where this is coming from. He wasn't in the

room. How can he possibly accuse me of this?

We understand that. And at this stage, I'm just

simply trying to give the committee a fuller

understanding of both your practice in general, and

we'll get into the specifics. And your attorney has

communicated that, you know, that point to the

committee. You're welcome to make it yourself, but

perhaps we can move along with the questioning?

A. I'm answering your questions. I just find it

interesting, my accuser is not here, yet I had to

take time from my day to be here. He didn't take

any time from his day to be here. All he did was

file a false accusation against me, and then you

guys are going to handle it. So he makes the

accusation, you shoot me. Who buries me?

Can I continue with my questioning?

A. Yes.

MR. STRACHMAN: Are you an NRA member?

So I was just trying to give the committee an



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understanding into your experience. Did you say

that you do an average of 75 closings a month?

A. About 75 a month.

Okay. And are all of these closings in the State of

Rhode Island?

A. Yes.

Do you operate as a notary in any other State?

A. I did at one time. Massachusetts.

When did you operate as a notary in Massachusetts?

A. May have been five or six years ago. It wasn't

worth it.

And when you say you were operating as a notary in

Massachusetts, was that exclusively for real estate

closings?

A. Yes.

And when did you stop doing that?

A. Three or four years ago. Just wasn't

worthwhile. They wanted me to go too far for too

little money. But I still handled Massachusetts

closings for people that live in Rhode Island, or

here vacationing in Rhode Island, and they are

remortgaging Massachusetts property. And that comes

under Massachusetts law, where we have to work with

an attorney.

So you're saying that you still, even though you're


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operating in Rhode Island right now, you still

perform real estate closings on Massachusetts

property?

A. Because the people are here in Rhode Island,

either vacationing or they live in Rhode Island, but

they own investment property in.Massachusetts that

they're remortgaging.

And when you say you do these Massachusetts closings

in Rhode Island because the people are in Rhode

Islandy that means the owners of the property that

is in Massachusetts?

A. Yes. They could be living in Rhode Island, they

could be going to the Naval War College. There are

a variety of reasons why they're in Rhode Island.

Okay. I want to turn your attention to the specific

closing that was in the complaint, which the

complaint suggests is on July 21, 2015. Do you

recall that particular closing?

A. I recall it. I was late.

That wasn't in the complaint. You didn't have to ——

A. I understand that, but I was.

MR. VESPIA: Did you bring a note?

THE WITNESS: I did.

We appreciate your candor. Thank you. Where did

that closing take place?



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A. At Mr. Pagliarini's office.

And what was your role in that closing?

A. I was bringing the closing documents, and I was

going to perform a closing.

And who contacted you to go --

A. ServiceLink.

And who is ServiceLink?

A. A young lady by the name of —- somebody from

their scheduling department. I can't tell you who

it was in the scheduling department, but my contact

there, once we got past the scheduling department,

was a Janet Tanner.

And more generally, what is ServiceLink, what kind

of services do they provide, do you know?

A. Title. They're part of Fidelity National. They

do title searches, closings, appraisals. They're a

conglomerate.

They're not the lending —- are they the lending

institution in this instance?

A. No.

Have you worked with ServiceLink before; before this

closing, had you worked with them?

A. Oh, yes. About 10 or 11 years. I was aware of

them.

So prior to this closing,‘you did numerous closings



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through -—

A. I've been in the mortgage business doing

closings, so I'm well aware of who the players are

that do title searches and appraisal work, and

lenders that you want to deal with and who you don't

want to deal with.

So when I decided to do this, I started to make

contacts, I marketed myself, which is what

Mr. Pagliarini should be doing.

Got you. Before this closing, had you performed

closings which had been referred to you by

ServiceLink?

A. Yes.

When were you hired to go to this closing, how far

in advance, generally, would you say?

A. Sometime before July 21. A few days before,

maybe. Maybe even a week before. Generally, not a

big window.

And what were ServiceLink's instructions to you as

part of -—

A. They gave me the name of the buyer and the

seller, and they gave me my contact, which happened

to be Mr. Pagliarini's partner, Hailey Conn.

And did ServiceLink provide you with all of the

documents that you were to bring to the closing?



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A. Yes. They e—mailed it to me.

And how did they provide those to you, did they

e-mail them —-

A. E-mail.

They e—mail you the documents?

A. Yes.

And you then print them out?

A. Yes. Make one set for the closing, and one set

for the buyer. Andithen, because it's a purchase,

there was some documents that I made for the seller.

So you bring multiple copies of the ——

A. Depending on the type of closing, correct.

Are these the same documents that you would have

brought, when you print these out, are these the

same documents that you then bring to the closing?

A. Yes and no. In this particular closing, there

are seller documents and documents to a purchase

transaction, which is different than a refi

transaction or a home equity line of credit. So it

varies depending on the type of transaction it is.

But rather than the HUD, now it's the closing

disclosure, and there are variations of those

documents.

Were you told in this instance who the lending

institution was?



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A. No.

You wouldn't have been told ~—

A. Doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter to you?

A. No.

So you don't have —- in this instance, I believe the

documents show that it was JPMorgan. Did you have

contact with the bank directly, or is all of your

contact with ~-

A. No. My contact is with ServiceLink and Hailey

Conn. Now, ServiceLink had contact with

Pagliarini's office long before me. And they were

well aware that the closing was going to be done by

a notary, and not by an attorney.

The borrower was the one that was kept in the

dark, the buyer, borrower. That should have been

discussed. Because in Rhode Island, you have the

right to choose your attorney to do the title

search. And usually if you do the title search, you

\ do the closing.

That should have been told to them by the

realtor. For just common sense, this is the largest

transaction in most people's lives. You don't get

an attorney? You don't at least talk to an

attorney, take the purchase and sales to one to



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protect yourself?

So in this scenario, did you envision yourself as

working on behalf of ServiceLink, as opposed -—

A. No. I envision myself as an impartial witness.

I'm not representing ServiceLink, nor am I

representing the buyer or the seller. I mean, I'm

there to make sure that the person signs the

documents, has some understanding of what he is

doing, and is the person that's in front of me.

Okay. Did you get paid for this closing?

A. I did.

Do you recall how much you got paid?

A. Why do you want to know? What difference does

it make? I'm just asking, why do you want to know?

MR. PICCIRILLI: It could be considered

proprietary information.

A. Yes. I mean, you're asking me how much I get

paid. Want to compare what you're getting? What do

you get paid for a closing?

I'm not here to testify, Mr. Paplauskas. The

question is --

MR. PICCIRILLI: I think my client is

indicating a reluctance to disclose what might be

propriety information. I don't know if, legally, I

can tell him not to answer that question, but I



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would ask this board's consideration. Do you really

need to know that information?

MR. VESPIA: At this point, it probably

wasn't enough.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Clearly not.

A. It definitely wasn't, because I'm getting

involved here. I mean, I have lost a whole day now.

What's worse is it's taking time away from my

granddaughter.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Go ahead.

Is there an answer? Are you not going to answer the

question?

A. No. I don't see any reason to tell you.~ I have

told you what I'm getting is a range of fees. What

does it matter what I get for a closing? Maybe I

did this one for free. I don't think so, but...

MS. BARONE: Did you do this one for

free?

MR. PICCIRILLI: No, you didn't do this

one for free.

A. No. I'm being facetious.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I guess we could

ask, listed on the closing statement, there was a

fee of $550.

MR. BERGERON: That was part of my



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question.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Well, ask him that

question.

Okay. How much did you get paid?

MR. PICCIRILLI: No. Ask him, "Does

the $550 on the closing sheet go to you?“

MR. STRACHMAN: With all due respect,

you don't have the right to tell him what questions

he can ask. He can ask whatever questions he wants.

That's one good question, but there are plenty of

others about that issue.

Did you get paid $550?

A. No. I should have.

Did you get paid less than that?

A. Yes.

Did you get paid, period?

A. Yes, I did. I do think, in the HUD and closing

disclosure, my fee should be disclosed. It should

be, and also make the title company pay me, because

that is the big risk that I have.

Sure. We will note that for the record. You said

that the closing took place at Mr. Pagliarlni's

office?

A. That's correct.

Who was there when you got there?



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A. The buyer's realtor; the buyer and wife; Hailey

Conn; and I believe there was one other realtor,

probably the realtor that represented the seller;

and myself.

Mr. Pagliarini was at the office; correct?

A. Mr. Pagliarini was sitting in his office. Did

not come into the room, was never, ever in

attendance.

So within the —-

A. When I left, he was extremely aggressive. And

if I didn't think it would cost my job, I would have

gone out in the parking lot with him.

Where within the office did the closing take place?

A. In the conference room. I don't know if they

have more than one.

And at the beginning of that closing in that

conference room, who was in the room at that point?

A. Hailey Conn; the seller's realtor, I believe;

the buyer's realtor, definitely; and the buyer, and

the seller, and me.

And you have already said Mr. Pagliarini was not in

the room?

A. Not in it.

At some point, the complaint suggests that Ms. Conn

left. Do you recall that?



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A. She left when the closing was done and we were

all leaving.

So you said that, at the beginning of the cloSing,

Ms. Conn, you, the two Majewskis, the buyers, and

possibly the other realtors ~—

A. Two realtors. One realtor definitely. This was

two years...

I understand. Were all of those people in that room

for the entirety of the signing of the documents?

A. Yes;

Including Ms. Conn?

A. Yes. She sat to the left of me, at the head of

the conference room table.

Did Ms. Conn ever leave the room while the --

A. Not that I can recall.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Let him finish his

questions.

I'm handing you what's marked Exhibit 4. That's a

document titled "Notary Held Harmless.“ Do you

recognize this document?

A. I do.

Did you bring this document to the closing?

A. Yes.

And is this a document that's provided to you by

ServiceLink, or is this a document --



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A. No. It's a document that came --

MR. PICCIRILLI: Let him finish his

question.

A. Go ahead; I'm sorry. Could you rephrase your

question?

Sure. You said you brought this to the closing?

A. I did.

Did ServiceLink provide you with this document?

A. No.

Where did this document come from?

A. The National Notary Association out of

California came up with a document like that, and I

copied it, because I think they should know that I'm

not an attorney.

So this is a document that you would have brought on

your own?

A. That's correct.

Did you have to advise ServiceLink that you would do

it?

A. No.

So you just bring it on your own initiative?

A. Right. I like them to know what my part of the

closing is, and that I'm not there to, I'm not

representing myself as an attorney, I'm not there as

a loan officer, if they have any real technical



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questions, they have to talk to the loan officer, or

talk to the processor at the lending company,

whatever.

Okay. At the top of the document, there's a line

that says "Loan Number"?

A. That's correct.

And there's numbers afterwards --

A. I filled in that.

You filled that in? And the next line that —- the

next two lines I will read to the committee. It

says, "Please be advised that William E. Paplauskas,

Jr., is not a notary public and not a loan officer

and/or employee of JPMorgan Chase"?

A. It says I am. I think I heard you say it says

"is not." I am a notary.

"Is a notary and not a loan officer“?

A. “Or employee.“

And handwritten in there is "JPMorgan Chase." Did

you write that in?

A. I did.

So did you understand yourself —- are you listing

the bank simply because they're the lender?

A. They are the lender. Yes.

Did you read this document to the Majewskis, or ~—

A. There's a blank copy that I gave them in the set



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of documents. I don't know if it's there or not,

but...

So did —-

A. It is the first document that I went over with

them.

And so, did you read it to them, or did you provide

it to them and tell them to read it?

A. No. I handed it to them, and I went —- I didn't

read word for word. I pointed out the paragraphs to

them, and then asked them to sign and print their

name and date. Asked them if they had any questions

about the document. And I allowed them enough time

to read it if they wanted to read it.

Do you recall if they had any questions about the

document?

A. They, at that time, thought that there was going

to be an attorney doing the closing. And I said,

"We can get an attorney, but it will delay the

closing." There was an attorney there. I said,

"There is an attorney here."

And were Attorney Conn or Attorney Pagliarini part

of that conversation?

A. Attorney Pagliarini was never part of the

conversation until I left the conference room.

So in regards to discussing this document with the



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Majewskis, was Attorney Conn ——

A. She was in the room, but she remained silent.

So do you recall any -—

A. No. They said -— they kind of looked at each

other. The realtor said —— the realtor really

should have held them by the hand. I mean, they're

first-time home buyers. But they just, “Okay, let's

do the closing." We did the closing.

After you provided it to them, did you ask them to

sign it?

A. I asked them to sign it. I gave them sufficient

time to read it, and asked them to sign it.

And if you look at the document, do you see the two

signatures there?

A. Yes.

Are those their signatures?

A. Yes.

And the final signature, is that your signature?

A. Yes.

Did you sign that document at that time?

A. Yes.

Earlier today, we went through a whole bunch of

documents. First was provided to us by JPMorgan

Chase, and the second was provided to us by

ServiceLink. In many instances that I was going



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through, I was pointing out either the signatures of

Mr. and Mrs. Majewski or your notarization of those.

When we were going through those, do you have any

dispute with any of those signatures?

A. No, but I can tell you what the borrower says

about all that paperwork. It's too much.

It's a lot of paperwork?

A. Yes. They think it's too much.

So you indicated, when we went through the

signatures of the Majewskis and their various

initials, once you got those signatures -— or let me

back up.

While you were providing those documents to

them for signatures, do you present them to them one

at a time?

A. Yes. I will back that up. All except for the

mortgage, because the mortgage is multiple pages.

Most of the documents are one or two pages. Some

may be three or four. The mortgage, I hand it to

them, "That's the mortgage. This is what gets

recorded at the town hall." And I ask them if they

would initial it and read it.

Okay. When you were providing these documents to

them, do you recall whether they had specific

questions about the documents?



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A. No.

Do you recall any instances in which, when you were

presenting them with the documents, they asked you

for an opinion?

A. Absolutely not. I would refer them to the loan

officer that they've been dealing with, or in some

cases now, it's the processor that gets involved at

the end, and the loan officer is on to the next

closing. I would refer them back there.

By the way, it's interesting, in the

Massachusetts closings that I do, the Massachusetts

attorney spends all of about two minutes. He

introduces himself, tells them his phone number, and

you can call him if there's any questions.

Okay. Once you got those signatures on all of the

documents, what did you do?

A. Time to leave, and time to get the package to

UPS or FedEx, however we're supposed to deliver it.

I can't tell you —— it was shipped by...

(Witness perusing documents)

MR. PICCIRILLI: He is asking you ——

A. It was FedEx or UPS. I don't know which.

So when you —-

A. But in leaving the office is when I met

Mr. Pagliarini.



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We'll get there, and I will have you speak about

that in a second. So when you finish getting all

the signatures, you have a11 the documents that have

been signed by you —- or, excuse me -— that have

been signed by the Majewskis, which you have

brought, did you receive any documents from the

sellers in this instance?

A. Sometimes -- in general. This is in general. I

can't remember specifically on this transaction. In

general, sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't.

Sometimes I get a check. I may have received a

check on this transaction, because it's a purchase.

Sometimes I get water bills that are being

paid, or real estate taxes, pay stubs, W—2s

sometimes. Sometimes I don't. There's less of that

now than what there was back in 1969.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: And then those

materials would just go in the envelope?

THE WITNESS: I'm sorry?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Would you just

send those materials off ——

A. Yes. Put them in a FedEx envelope and ship them

back. The shipping label is provided by the lender

or the title company.

Okay. I'm going to show you what's marked



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Exhibit 10, page 152. That's a document titled

"Warranty Deed."

A. That was a document that was handed to me by

Hailey.

Right. So that's all I'm asking. Was that document

provided to you -—

A. It could have been, at the purchase. That's

fairly common.

And does that require anything from you, or do you

just receive it?

A. Just put it in the package.

Okay. That's all I want to know. So when you go

outside the conference room, do you make copies?

A. No.

There's just one original when you leave?

A. That's correct.

And te11 us about the interaction that took place

when you left the conference room.

A. When I left, Mr. Pagliarini decided that he was

going to come out of his office, and he wanted to

know if I was doing the recording. I told him no.

And he thought that that was stupid, and he told me

that. And I said, "This is stuff that was all

worked out prior to me coming here."

Then he wanted to know when the money was going



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to be -— if it was the client's account. I said,

“You have to ask Hailey. I don't have any idea.

That stuff is conversations that occurred between

your office and the title company that I'm not privy

to, and it should have been answered prior to me

coming." And he didn't like my answer.

Okay.

A. And I didn't like his aggressive attitude.

Did you then leave?

A. Yes.

And after you left, what were your responsibilities,

how did you understand —-

A. Get the package to the UPS or FedEx office as

quickly as possible so there would be no delay in

funding the loan.

And who did you mail it to?

A. ServiceLink.

And did you record or file any of the documents?

A. No.

Did you control or release any of the money that was

in escrow?

A. Absolutely not.

And after you mailed those documents to ServiceLink,

did you have any other involvement with the

transaction?



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A. No.

Did they pay you?

A. They did.

MR. BERGERON: Good. Does the

committee have any questions that they would like to

ask?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I will open it

up, if you want to start on that end?

EXAMINATION BY MS. GILLIGAN

I just want to clarify a part of your process,

because when you were telling us back in the

beginning, sir, how your job operates, and that

you're independent, and you've been doing these all

these years, you said you see yourself as an

impartial observer ~-

A. Impartial witness.

Impartial witness, certainly, at these proceedings?

A. That's correct.

And you have done, you said, about 900 a year for

the last ten years or so; correct?

A. Approximately.

Right. And I take that from 75 a month. I used my

limited math skills.

A. I said 50 to 75.

Great. So it's a lot. You also said that not only



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are you an impartial witness, but you also want to

make sure that the people have some understanding of

the documents; correct?

A. my wife and granddaughter don't think it's

enough.

The money. Absolutely. I'm sure they don't. But

you also testified, in response to Mr. Bergeron,

that you want to make sure the people have some

understanding of the documents; correct?

A. Well, I give them an overview of the document,

make sure that they're not on drugs, there's nothing

impairing their judgment, that kind of thing. Ask

them if they're doing this under their own free act

and will.

Sure. And then a little later, also in response to

Mr. Bergeron, you said that generally it would be

your protocol to say, "So, do you understand it, and

if so, sign it“; right?

A. That was on that document there, on the hold ~

harmless agreement, ask them if they understand.

Thank you. Do you ask that question, "Do you

understand it," on every document?

A. No.

Have, over the course of your 10 to 20 thousand

instances, has anyone ever said, “No, I don't



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understand it"?

A. I have had some where I thought that the husband

was browbeating the wife, or the wife was

browbeating the husband into signing, and we did not

go through with the signing.

So if someone said to you, "No, I don't understand

it," what is it your practice to do?

A. I would then tell them, "Let's call the loan

officer, let's let the loan officer explain it to

you~ "

MS. GILLIGAN: Okay. Thank you.

EXAMINATION BY MS. BARONE

Mr. Paplauskas, I'm Carolyn Barone, if you need to

know the names of people who are going to be asking

you questions. You indicated that you are not

affiliated or associated with any closing company;

is that correct?

A. I am not an employee, and there's not an

employment relationship. I'm a 1099 person. I get

business regularly from some companies more than

others.

What are these companies?

A. Title companies or signing companies.

Where are they located?

A. Could be anywhere, ma'am, from Rhode Island to



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California and back.

You indicated that you marketed yourself; is that an

accurate statement?

A. That's correct.

How do you market yourself?

A. Call them up, introduce myself. Most cases, now

I have a reputation, so I'm known. When I'm talking

with somebody, they want references from me, and I

give them references, and the references speak,

evidently, highly of me.

And these referencés would come from whom?

A. Companies that I do business with, I would give

them references. But the National Notary

Association has a list of companies that hire

notaries to do closings. And then you got to-get in

line and, you know...

You contact these companies and say, "Put me on your

list, please"?

A. Got to do the grunt work.

Do you have any referrals from other attorneys?

A. No. Well, I will back that up. Occasionally, I

get one, but they're few and far between.

Would these be Rhode Island attorneys?

A. Maybe one or two every now and then. But most

of them are out—of-state attorneys that have a



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closing to do in Rhode Island.

And how would they get your name?

A. Going through various websites that I may be

listed on, or referrals from people that move from

one company to another.

Okay. How many closings have you attended at John

Pagliarini's office?

A. None -- one. One.

This was the very first one?

A. And the last one.

Now, who pays you for your services?

A. _ServiceLink. On this particular transaction,

ServiceLink.

Are you always paid by the title company?

A. Title company, or a signing company that hires

me.

Now, how does a signing company differ from a title

company?

A. I'm assuming that they market themselves to

these title companies as companies that have

notaries throughout the country that will do

signings, I'm assuming. I don't know. I'm assuming

they do it the same way I do it.

They would be like the middleperson between the

title company or the funding company, whoever is


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funding the money?

A. That's correct.

Then they would get to this -- how did you describe

it -— the service company, and then the company

would come to you?

A. The signing company is its own entity. They

would market the title companies. And then the

title company would go through them to get to me.

ServiceLink is much more of a direct relationship.

They are the title company, and they deal directly

with a notary. Some of them don't want to deal with

notaries. I think we're pleasant people.

I think we're all notaries here, and I agree with

you, we're very pleasant. Now, you stated that the

buyer is, quote/unquote, kept in the dark about who

the closing attorney is, and the buyers are never

told there would be no attorney?

A. No, I didn't say they were kept in the dark.

I've got quotes around "kept in dark."

A. When I showed up, they were surprised, because I

introduced myself and I don't hide what I do. I

introduced myself with my title, and they said ~—

who kept them in the dark, I don't have any idea. I

know ServiceLink doesn't have any contact with them.

That's JPMorgan and the realtor. Why the realtors



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don't point them towards an attorney on the largest

transaction that most people do, I don't have any

idea. They should. And you attorneys should be

marketing those realtors.

Hailey Conn, is that her name, Hallee or Hailey?

A. I'm sorry? Hailey Conn? She represented the

seller.

Had you met her before that day?

A. No, ma'am.

No communication with her before that day?

A. No, ma'am. I'm a Rhode Islander. Tiverton is

like in another world. More than a 20-minute drive.

So the sellers were represented?

A. The sellers were represented by Hailey Conn.

The sellers were not at the closing, so she

evidently had power of attorney, or took care of

their portion while they went somewhere else other

than at the closing.

And your recollection is that Attorney Conn was in

that conference room for the entire time ~-

A. Yes, ma'am.

-— of the closing process?

A. Yes, ma'am.

With respect to this notary he1d harmless clause,

I'm looking at Exhibit 4, your notary held harmless



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William.E. Paplauskas, Jr. — March 1, 2017

73

clause, do you have parties to a real estate closing

transaction always sign this hold harmless clause?

A. Yes, ma'am.

And I believe you said you gave them sufficient time

to review?

A. Yes.

How much time is sufficient?

A. I don't know. Two, three minutes, four minutes,

five minutes. I have no idea.

How long did the closing take place?

A. 4S minutes to an hour, generally.

Do you remember this one, this particular closing?

A. Ma'am, you're asking for something two years

ago. It's like asking me what did I have for

breakfast two years ago. I mean, I have no idea.

I figured I would take a shot.

A. I understand. Generally, they're 45 minutes to

an hour.

And how long, usually, in your experience, based

upon your particular experiences, will the buyers

take to review all of the stacks of documents that

they have to sign?

A. Within that 45 minutes to an hour, as we're

passing the documents.

And it's usually, you point to where they have to



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sign; is that correct?

A. No. I went over, I give them an overview of the

document. "This is the note, that is what you're

borrowing, this is your interest rate." It's black

and white. Now it's even on the closing disclosure,

so all that stuff is really up front. And that's

it.

Do you give them three to four minutes to review all

the other documents?

A. As I put them in front of me -~ they have a

right to review everything —-

I know what they have the right to do.

A. If they want to sit there and review it ~-

I'm asking you, in this particular closing, did you

give these buyers three to four minutes to review

each of these documents?

A. I put the document in front of them, I give them

an overview of the document, ask them to look it

over and initial it. Whether they do or not is

strictly up to them.

What does this overview that you give them consist

of?

A. I would tell them it's a note, I would tell them

the loan amount, the interest rate, when the first

payment is due, last payment is due, what the



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‘l"75

.

L

1 principal interest payment is, and if there's a

2 prepayment penalty. That's all on the first page of

3 the note. And if there's a late charge.

4 Q. You don't talk about what happens if there's a

5 breach of the note, nothing like that?

6 A. No. No. Not up to me to do that.

7 CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Carolyn, can I

8 follow up on your question?

9 MS. BARONE: Sure.

10 CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Same question,

11 when you, for example, present them with their

g 12 mortgage document, what would you say?'

13 A. "This is the mortgage, this is what gets

14 recorded at the Registry of Deeds. It's 15, 16

15 pages. Take a look at it. Initial each page as

16 you're looking at it." I tell them the initial has

17 to be within, inside the margins, because the

18 registry may have a problem with recording it.

19 And that's about it. If they have any

20 questions about that document, it's time that they

21 talk to the loan officer, or their financial

22 advisor, or their attorney if they have one.

23 CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: And even a

g 24 similar question with a document like this that's'3”

25 just titled "A11 Terms Met." Are you familiar with


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those? What would you say ——

A. That's between the buyer and the seller, that

all terms are met according to the purchase and

sales agreement.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: So you would just

read them the title and give them that overview?

A. Yes, ma'am. Well, I wouldn't say all terms are

met on the purchase and sales agreement, but...


Understood. Sorry, Carolyn.

Sir, getting back to the notary held harmless

clause, when did you start using this clause?

A. Ten years ago, five years ago. I really have no

idea.

How did you find this clause?

A. The National Notary Association.

You're a member of that association?

A. Yes, ma'am.

And has there, throughout the course of your

attending and facilitating these real estate

closings, have you ever run across a situation where

anyone in that room where that closing was being

held thought you were an attorney?

A. Rare, because most cases -— well, not —— about

99 percent of the time, I have contact with the



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borrower. I did not have contact with the borrower.

My contact was with Hailey Conn, and she knew I was

coming, and she knew I was a notary.

How did Hailey Conn get involved in this?

A. She represented the seller, and she was my

contact person.

Okay. She prepared the warranty deed, as far as you

know?

A. As far as I know. I'm not positive. I wasn't

privy to that. I just got it handed to me.

Now, you indicated that —- strike that. I have no

further questions.

A. Actually, most of the borrowers like the fact

that a notary is doing the closing, because we go to

their home, we go to their place of business. To

deal with an attorney, they have to come to you,

they have to rearrange their schedule, versus us

arranging our schedule around them. To come to your

office, they have to come to your schedule.

So if I'm Joe Schmoe purchasing, say it's a new

purchase, you come to my house?

A. Come to your house, come to your place of work,

if necessary.

Who do I pay for your services, who am Iipaying?

A. That's, I don't have any idea. I only know that



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I get paid by the title company. What money

transpires between the buyer and the seller, if it's

on the HUD, or, I mean, that's there. And today

it's all got to be there in the HUD.

MS. BARONE: Okay. I have no further

questions.

EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO

I have a few additional questions, Mr. Pap...

A. That's a mouthful.

I'm sorry. Yes, it is. I'm Megan Maciasz DiSanto.

A.‘ I thought my name was a mouthful.

Right? I know. Then there's this one. A couple of

follow-up questions, and a couple of questions about

the people that retain you. So I just wanted to ask

you a question about ServiceLink, and you may or may

not know the answer to this question, but you said

that you have had multiple business experiences

working with ServiceLink in your dealings?

A. Yes.

Are you aware whether or not ServiceLink provides

title insurance?

A. Yes, they do. The title insurance, I believe,

is probably written through either Chicago Title,

Fidelity National, or maybe one other one.

So they are not the underwriter, but they provide



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title insurance, that's your understanding?

A. That, I'm not positive of. I know that they're

owned by Fidelity National, and within that network

is Chicago Title, and there's one other company

that's within the Fidelity network.

In the, I guess, 40 or 50 years that you've been

doing this, are you aware of other people in Rhode

Island who do the same line of work as -—

A. There's a bunch of them.

So you're aware of a bunch of other people who act

as notary publics [sic]?

A. Yes.

Independently, such as yourself?

A. I would like them not to do the closings, and I

get it all, but...

When you say "a bunch" -—

A. It's a bunch. I can't give you an exact number.

I know that I bump into them.

Would it be closer to like three or four, or would

it be closer to like 40 or 50?

A. It would be higher than three or four, it would

probably be less than 40 or 50, I think. I can't

tell you the exact number.

But you're aware of other people who do this work?

A. Yes.



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In these closings that you have been present for

over these years, are there closings where both the

buyer and the seller are represented by counsel at

the closing?

A. There are.

And so in that case, the buyer's attorney would be

there, the seller's attorney would be there, and you

would be there, as well?

A. That's correct.

Now, you said that, for this closing, you --

A. That doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

But that was not the case, obviously, for this

closing. For this closing, you said ServiceLink was

the entity that compensated you?

A. Yes. That's correct.

Is it always —-

A. I never get payment by the buyer or the seller.

It's always been from a title company or a signing

company.

Have you ever been paid by an attorney?

A. No. Well, I take that back. Yes. The few

deals that I have done where the attorney has hired

me, yes. But it's not, it's maybe a handful.

Okay. But you have never been paid by the buyer or

the seller?



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A. Never.

And you're always retained by same other third party

to the transaction?

A. Yes.

Now, you said you have had some experience doing

closings for Massachusetts property?

A. That's correct.

And you had alluded to the role of an attorney.

Could you ——

A. The attorney has to get involved with the

closing in the‘State of Massachusetts. And

typically, when it comes to me as an assignment,

they will also tell me who the attorney is that's

going to be doing the closing, or going to be

participating in the closing.

And generally what happens, the attorney

introduces himself, he or she tells the borrower

that he is available, he or she is available, and

here is the phone number.

Now, when you say they introduce —~

A. If they have any questions, "Call me."

When you say they introduce themselves, do you mean

they're physically present at the closing, or they

have reached out via telephone —-

A. No. They're in Massachusetts. maybe theyLregJ



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doing another closing in another part of

Massachusetts, or they're sitting in the office.

So are they being teleconferenced in via telephone?

I'm just trying --

A. I call them on my cell phone and hand it to the

borrower. They introduce themselves, give the

borrower a phone number that they can call back if

they have any questions.

So usually at the closing, you initiate the call to

the attorney?

A. No. If I'm there, and the attorney is there in

82

person, I hand the HUD to him and let him explain to

his client.

But if the attorney is not there in person, I'm just

trying to understand how it works. I don't have any

experience in this personally.

A. Massachusetts, all they do is introduce

themselves and give a phone number to the borrower,

period.

When do they introduce themselves?

A. When I sit down and dial the phone and say,

“Megan, here is so-and—so.“ And they spend two

minutes with them, and that's it.

So you do initiate the phone call to the attorney?

A. That's correct.



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And then they communicate via telephone; the phone

is not put on speakerphone, it's not, they're not -—

A. No. It's on speaker if there's a husband and

wife, or two borrowers, I put it on Speaker so they

can talk to both borrowers at the same time. It's,

"Hi, my name is Megan DiSanto. My phone number is

X. If you have any questions, call me."

But in your experience, they haven't been in the

closing on a conference phone where they're

listening to the entire closing?

A. No.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Megan, can I

interrupt and just ask one question? Are these for

closings that you're doing in Rhode Island for

properties in Massachusetts --

A. Yes.t

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: -- or are you

referring to your practice when you used to —-

A. No. Those are closings I'm doing in Rhode

Island for Massachusetts. When I was a Mass. notary

and did some closings in Massachusetts, yes, then it

was the same thing. The attorney is in his office

or somewhere else ——

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: So there was some

limited telephone contact?

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A. When I did closings in Massachusetts, then we

dealt with an attorney the same way. He would call

and introduce himself, and the phone number, and

that was it.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Megan, I'm sorry

to interrupt, but just one follow—up question on the

same area. And those are closings you still perform

today, occasionally?

A. Yes.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS:. Thank you.

MS. MACIASZ DISANTO: I don't have any

further questions. Thank you very much.

RE-EXAMINATION BY MS. BARONE

I have one follow—up question, just very quickly.

How did you, who made the arrangements to go to John

Pagliarini's office?

A. ServiceLink and Hailey Conn.

Do you know who she works for?

A. I'm assuming she's a partner of the Pagliarini

law office. I don't know for sure, but she is an

attorney at that office.

MS. BARONE: Thank you.

A. It's curious. She was the only one in the room,

why didn't she file the complaint if I did something

wrong?


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EXAMINATION BY MR. VESPIA

Well, I think you know that I am the public member

of this committee?

A. I do.

I'm the only member of the committee who is not a

lawyer, so I just wanted you to know that. I think

Mr. Piccirilli probably clued you in on that. But

thank you for your comments earlier. That's very

nice of you.

A. Well, you did honorable service.

Very nice of you to say that.

A. One of the few public figures.

Is it safe to say that, since 1969, you may have

performed over a thousand closings?

A. 10 to 20 thousand, probably, I guess.

Did the occasion ever arise during any one of those

closings when you were going over the closing

documents to either the buyer or the seller, either

one of them eaid, "Oh, wait a minute, I'm not

comfortable with this"?

A. Yes.

What did you do then?

A. Get them on the phone with the loan officer and

explain just what the problem is.

Suppose the buyer or seller said to you, "I want a



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lawyer," did that ever happen?

A. Get a lawyer. I mean, I will stop the closing,

and if you can get an attorney to come to the table

now, or we have to reschedule the closing.

Were you ever instrumental in obtaining a lawyer for

anyone?

A. I don't obtain any lawyers for anybody.

Okay.

A. If I did, I would call him (indicating) .

Good ehoice. I think you said earlier that

Mr. Pagliarini was interested in promulgating some

legislation barring --

A. No. Go ahead. I'm sorry..

—— batring nonattorneys from working on a closing?

A. Back in 2002, the state legislature, there were

people -~ including John Harwood, who ended up, I

think, in jail -- who tried to pass Bill H74662,

which was, Ted Cruz was involved when he worked for

the Department of Justice.

The Department of Justice and the FCC, the

State of Rhode Island was taken to court because

there's no history of a closing being done by an

attorney where the borrower, when he absconded with

funds or anything, was crooked about the

transaction. But there had been attorneys that have


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gone to jail. One of them was in jail for five

years, and the bar gave him back his license. I

find that interesting.

Who?

A. Think about all the criminals that you arrested

get back their license to practice law because they

know the law. And I think that Mr. Pagliarini,

being a legislator, was trying to get the Supreme

Court to make law from the bench, which I don't

think judges should do.

Had he been successful, you would be out of a job.

A. And I am getting close to the age where I'm

going to be out of a job.

MR. VESPIA: I've been there recently.

Okay. Thank you. I have no further questions.

EXAMINATION BY MR. STRACHMAN

Do you think, sir, that that's what this proceeding

is about, Mr. Pagliarini —-

A. I think that that's —-

Let me finish the question, and then you can answer.

Do you think that this is about; this proceeding is

about Mr. Pagliarini trying to get the Rhode Island

Supreme Court to make 1aw?

A. I do.

What do you base that on?



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A. Pardon me?

What facts are there that support your contention?

A. Because in 2002, the legislature backed off when

the Justice Department and the FCC threatened to

sue. And I think what he is trying to do is a

back-door -— all of that complaint, a lot of those

questions should have been answered by the title

company, should have been answered before I arrived

at the table.

Instead -- and I don't know if he did or not.

But I just find it interesting that I can't face my

accuser. My accuser was not in the roam when the

crime was committed, yet he is saying that I.

committed a crime. And the attorney that was there

didn”t say that.

But what facts do you know of that snggest that this

proceeding right here is to further what didn't

happen in 2002? Do you know of any specific ——

A. I think that he's a legislator, and he wants to

get it done that way, rather than through the battle

with the Department of Justice and the FCC.

What's the evidence of that?

A. That's what I'm —— that complaint is bogus.

Other than that letter, that complaint letter from

August of 2015, there's no other evidence that you



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have?

A. Where is he so I can ask that question to him?

I'm asking you the question.

A. No, I'm asking you. Where is my accuser?

No. Excuse me. With all due respect, sir; I'm not

here to answer questions, I'm here to ask them" Are

you saying that the only evidence that you have for

that contention is the August 2015 letter?

A. Yes. The letter that he filed the complaint in.

Yes.

That's it?

A. Because‘it's absolutely, it's horse manure.

I got it.‘ But other than that horse manure, there's

nothing else, no other fact, no other letter, no

other statement -—

A. Other than the fact that he is an attorney. I

think that his complaint is because he doesn't do a

lot of real estate. What people ~—

With all due respect, I'm not asking for a

narrative. You can do that later at another time.

All I'm asking for is what facts that support your

contention that this proceeding right here today is

about some, I guess, vendetta or personal idea that

Mr. Pagliarini has.

A. Because we're here for somebody that was not ingj


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the room, and accusing me of doing something. And

he should be here answering that.

So in addition to the 2015 letter, it's his absence

today?

A. That's one of them, and the fact that he's a

legislator.

Those three facts?

A. And the fact that I don't think he does a lot of

business, from what I saw from his office.

That's it, those four facts?

A. That's right.

Now, you've been, you said, I think you said you

were in the mortgage business since-1969; right?

A. Yes.

NOW, besides being a notary in closings, what other

role have you played in the mortgage business?

A. I have done everything from a telemarketer, to a

processor, to a loan officer, to a manager of loan

officers, to running a finance company, knocking on

doors for payment.

So you have done a lot of things in the mortgage

industry; is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

And for how many years have you exclusively been a

notary?



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A. Probably just ten years, maybe a little longer.

So a little longer than ten years, you have been

just a notary showing up at closings?

A. Yes, sir.

And you're the guy, when you show up at the

closings, who makes the closings; is that right?

A. I am the guy that presents the paperwork. Yes.

And when you typically go, there's no lawyer for the

buyer; is that right?

A. I'm sorry. I missed what you said.

The closings that you attend in Rhode Island,

typically there are no attorneys for the buyers?

A. No. Most of my closings I do are refinancing or

home equity lines of credit. I do do some

purchases. Some‘of it is local, and some of it is

out—of-state property they're buying in Florida or

somewhere else.

So let's talk about Rhode Island. In Rhode Island,

is it fair to say that in the ten or so years that

you have been serving as a notary exclusively,

almost every closing that you attend, either for a

refi or a purchase, there is no buyer, no buyer's

attorney?

A. Occasionally, I get a buyer at the closing. Not

often. Buyer may be somewhere else. I mean...



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I'm talking about attorneys. I'm‘asking about

attorneys.

A. Occasionally, I get an attorney at a closing.

Not often.

If an attorney is there, why would you need to be

there?

A. I'm there because the title company sends me the

paperwork.

To do what?

A. Transport the paperwork.

So you deliver the paperwork -—

A. And I notarize the document. I hand the

paperwork to the attorney and let the attorney go

over the paperwork with the buyer.

And the lawyer could notarize his client's

paperwork, too; right?

A. I'm just telling you what I do.

Is that right?

A. Yes. Of course, he could. He's probably a

notary.

But is it fair to say, 99 percent of the times

you're there, there is no attorney for the buyer?

A. Yes. Probably about, yes, 95 percent of the

time.

In Rhode Island?


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A. Yes}

For both purchases and refi's?

A. Refi's there's never an attorney. I shouldn't

say that. Occasionally, there is an attorney.

So still around —-

A. Less apt than on a sale or purchase.

So still about 95 percent?

A. Probably a little higher.

And where exactly do you advertise your notary

practice?

A. I don't.

I thought you said you were listed in directories

and websites?

A. I'm listed, yes, on various websites that --

So what are those websites?

A. Notary Cafe.

I'm sorry. Say that‘again, please?

A. Notary Cafe.

Cafe?

A. Cafe, C-A-F—E. Notary Rotary. National Notary

Association. They have a website called

signingagent.com. That's it.

So in other words, do you pay for listings there?

A. No.

You're a member of these organizations?



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A. I'm a member of —— yes. I'm a member of the

National Notary Association. So you could say that,

I guess, my membership fee covers me being on their

websité.

A listing on their website?

A. Yes.

You don't have an advertisement or promotional

materials that you send out?

A. No.

And when you attend the closings, you said your role

is to provide an overview, is that right, of the

documents?

A. Impartial witness. Yes.

And when you provide an overview, do you give an

overview of each of the documents that the buyers

have to sign?

A. Most cases, it's a refi. But, yes, if the buyer

is, yes, I hand all the things meant for them that,

hey, this means that you agree with the purchase and

sale.

So let's say the documents that are in Exhibit 10,

which I think your lawyer has to your right, you

.gave an overview of each of the documents that were

in here to the client?

A. I mean, some of them don't take a lot of



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explanation. This says that you cover the property

with all necessary insurance.

I just want to be clear for the record. In this

particular closing for the Majewskis ~—

A. I did nothing for the seller.

For the buyers, did you —-

A. For the buyers ——

Let me finish, please. For the buyers, did you give

them an overview of each of the documents that they

were asked to sign?

A. Yes.

And you were the one who gave them the documents to

sign, you put them in front of them; is that right?

A. As I presented the documents to them, I told

them what the-document was.

So you explained to them what it was?

A. I told them an overview of what it was. "This

is the note," I went over it. “This is, it talks

about you having to cover the property with all the

necessary insurance" —-

You told them what their obligations were under the

note?

A. No. I explained to themiwhat the loan amount

was, what the payment was, when the first payment is

due, final payment scheduled, their principal and


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interest payment, whether there is a prepayment

penalty, and whether there's a late fee or not. And

that's it.

Did you say that you told them about the insurance‘

that they had to provide?

A. I'm sorry, please?

Did you just testify a moment ago that you told the

Majewskis about the insurance that they had to have

for the house?

A. I said that, as you're going through that

package of forms, it has a form that says that you

will cover the property with all necessary

insurance.

So you alerted them to their obligation to provide

insurance?

A. That's what the form says.

You alerted them to that; you pointed it out?

A. That's what the form says.

So the answer is yes?

A. This has an insurance form, and it says you have

to cover the firoperty with all necessary insurance.

So you pointed that out to them?

A. Yes.

And did you point out anything else in the note?

A. No.


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When was the first time that they were given these

documents to review?

A. I'm assuming, when I showed up.

Did they respond to the documents as if they had

been seeing them for the first time?

A. They never indicated to me.

So they may have seen them before?

A. Correct.

You don't know?

A. I have no idea.

And did they tell you, "We have seen them before"?

A. No.

Did they tell you, "We don't need your overview

because we know what the documents say"?

A. No.

Did they tell you, "We don't need you to explain to

us about insurance or about what the terms of the

note were, when the payments were due, because we

already know that"?

A. I don't explain about insurance. I tell them,

"The form says you will cover the property with all

the necessary insurance." I don't go into, "You

97

have to cover the property, this is a $150,000 loan,

you have to cover it with $150,000 worth of

insurance.“ I don't go into, "If the property is in



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a flood zone, you have to cover the property with

flood insurance." I don't get into that detail.V

MR. STRACHMAN: Could you please read

back my question so that, so we can put the question

to the witness.

(Pending question read)

A. No.

And did they give you any indication at a11 that

they had seen these documents in Exhibit 10 before?

A. No.

Did it appear as if they read all the documents in

front of you?

A. No. I want to correct one thing. I do believe

they may, on a purchase, may have seen the HUD

settlement statement in this case, because it was

before the closing disclosures came out. Because

there was no questions about the closing disclosure,

the HUD settlement statement, as far as the numbers

were --

So it appeared as if —-

A. It appeared to me they saw it.

—- they saw the HUD before?

A. It appears.

Because they had no questions?

A. They had no questions.


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And you didn't walk them through it?

A. No.

You didn't tell them, "Here are the calculations for

the seller, here is for the buyer"?

A. I told them, "This side is for the seller, this

side is for the buyer," on the HUD settlement

statement.

You did point that out to them?

A. Yes. That's all.

And did you point out to them how much money they

had to bring to the table, or what their check was,

0r ‘-

~A. At the bottom of the HUD settlement statement.

You didn't show them where that was?

A. Yes, I walked them through -—

You walked them through it?

A. I'd walk them through —— I didn't walk them

through the whole -— I did walk them through, "This

is the loan amount, and this is the money that you

have to" —- that's it.

So some things you walked them through, in your

words?

A. Yes.

And some things, like the HUD, you didn't need to

walk them through?



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A. I assumed, there was no question, so I'm

assuming that they saw it. Now, whether the realtor

saw it, or the buyer saw it, I don't have any idea.

I'm just assuming. There was no questions.

Was their realtor in the room with them?

A._ Their realtor was in the room.

Was their realtor explaining to them what the

documents were?

A. No.

Did their realtor go over —-

A. The realtor sat there —-

Let me finish, please. Did their realtor go over

any of the documents with them?

A. No. The realtor sat there and talked to the

other realtor about what was going on in their

lives, like happens with most closings.

You remember that specifically about this closing?

A. I just remember it's what generally happens.

But do you remember --

A. I have never seen a realtor -— go ahead.

Do you remember that specifically about this

closing?

A. I'm guessing. That's usually the way that it

happens.

So your answer is no, you don't remember



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. ~ March 1, 2017

101

specifically?

A. I don't remember specifically. No. It's two

years ago.

But do you remember, in this closing, if their own

realtor walked them through any of these documents?

A. I can tell you the realtor didn't. That, I can

tell you.

They did not?

A. No.

He or she did not?

A. He or she did not. It was a she.

Okay. And you prepared this notary held harmless

document yourself?

A. Yes.

And you got the form from the National Notary

Association?

A. Yes.

Did you adjust it?

A. No.

Did you doctor it up or beef it up?

A. I think I added a few words about the title

company and that kind of thing.

Did you discuss it with your own attorney, did you

run it by an attorney in advance?

A. No.



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And you were hired to perform the closing; is that

right?

A. That's correct.

And that's, in fabt, what the documents from

ServiceLink say, that your directions were to

perform the closing?

A. I don't believe the documents say that. I think

the documents just say that this is the closing, and

there's closing instructions on there.

But you were hired to perform the closing?

A. That's correct.

And if the document says that you were asked to

perform the closing, you wouldn't contest that;

right? Is that correct?

A. If the document what, please?

If the documents from ServiceLink to you suggest

that you were requested to perform the closing, you

wouldn't object to that?

A. No.

That's accurate?

A. Yes. It wouldn't bother me.

That's what you were asked to do, perform the

closing?

A. That's right. It wouldn't bother me. I said

that.



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Q.

103

I just want to be clear. It's important that

everything gets taken down. And sometimes it's not

clear because I'm not asking a good question, or

you're interrupting me, or you're not answering it

properly. So that's why, sometimes, we say things

repeatedly. And were there any other notaries at

the Pagliarini law office, do you know?

A. I don't know. I'm assuming the attorney is a

notary. The other attorney, Pagliarini, is a

notary. I don't know if the receptionist is a

notary, I don't know that for sure.

And do you know if, well, do you recall if, during

this closing, the Majewskis, if you ever said‘to the

Majewskis something like, "I'm not a lawyer, but

this is the significance of this document“?

A. No. The form says I'm not a lawyer.

I'm not asking what the form said, I'm asking what

you said.

A. No.

You never said something like, “I'm not a lawyer,

but this is what this means"?

A. Absolutely not.

And you know that for sure?

A. I've been doing this now since 1969. I never...

So you wouldn't have said it here?



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104

A. No.

So if the Majewskis said that, they would be wrong?

A. Yes. The Majewskis didn't say that.

But if they said it, if they said it to somebody

else, that, something like, "He," referring to you,

"He said, quote, I'm not a lawyer, but," that would

be wrong?

MR. PICCIRILLI: Can I objeCt here? I

understand the rules of evidence are very relaxed

here, but now we're getting very speculative. If

the Majewskis may have said to somebody? That's

double hearsay. I mean, that's not even in the

allegations anywhere. Why are we asking questions

like that? I don't think it's appropriate, and I

object.

MR. STRACHMANZ Okay.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I don't know if you'll

rule on that or not, but...f

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I don't have a

problem with the question.

You can answer.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Do you need the

question read back?

A. Do I know if the Majewskis said that?

If the Majewskis told somebody ~—



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105

A. I don't have any idea.

Let me finish. If the Majewskis said to somebody,

"The notary who did the closing said to us, quote,

I'm not a notary, but this is what these documents

mean," that would be wrong?

A. If they were here, I would tell them that

they're a liar.

So that would be wrong?

A. That's correct.

At the closing, did you give a copy of the documents

for the Majewskis to take home with them?

A. I gave them an unsigned copy.

So your practice is that you print out, from the

e—mail that you receive from ServiceLink, your

practice is to print out two copies; is that right?

A. I print two copies. I'm a one—man band.

Right. So one is the copy that they're going to

sign?

A. That's correct.

And one is the copy that they can go take home with

them; is that right?

A. That's correct.

Now, there was a deed in this case; is that right?

A. There was a deed that was prepared by somebody

from the seller to...



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Was that deed given to you?

A. Yes.

By who?

A. By Hailey.

Hailey, the lawyer for the seller?

A. Right. Hailey Conn. Yes.

So she gave you the deed, and then what did you do

with it?

A. I put it in the package and shipped it.

Did you ever give it to the buyers?

A. No.

So you never gave them a copy of the deed?

A. No.

Do you know if they ever got a copy of the deed?

A. I don't have any idea.

Do you know if anybody explained the deed to them at

the closing?

A. Not me.

Did the seller's lawyer do that?

A. I don't have any idea. It's two years ago.

You don't know?

A. I don't know.

Do you know if they had any questions about the

deed?

A. Not that I am aware of.



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107

And what happens if they didn't like the terms of

the deed, or there was something on the deed that

was defective or wrong, what would happen?

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'm going to object.

This is speculative. Can I just point out

something? There is a statute in Rhode Island

called‘Powers of Notaries, 42:30—8, that

specifically says, "Notary publics [sic] may, within

this state, act, transact, do, and finish all

matters and things relating to protests and

protesting bills of exchange and promissory notes,

and all other matters within their office required

by law, take depositions as prescribed by law, and

acknowledgment of deeds and other instruments."

So, quite frankly, if Mr. Paplauskas

explained the documents in this closing to the

buyers, that would be within the scope of his powers

as a notary, whether he does or not. So what are we

doing with these questions?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Piccirilli —-

MR. PICCIRILLI: I object. And there's

also another statute, 19-9-6, that says it's the

lending institution's obligation, if they are going

to have a title performed on property, it's the

lending institution's obligation to provide a



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108

document to the borrower indicating their right to

have their own title attorney do the title to the

property, and then give them the option to not have

that done, and let the title company or the mortgage

company pick the title attorney.

It's a specific statute in Rhode

Island, 19—9—6. If JPMorgan Chase didn't provide

that document to the buyers, that's JPMorgan Chase's

problem, it's not this man's problem. And if they

didn't know, going to this closing, whether or not

they had the right to hire a title attorney or not,

you have zero power to complain to this man.

Complain to JP —- I didn't see it in

the documents that they provided to you in the

subpoena. Maybe they screwed up, maybe they

violated the state law. He doesn't have that

obligation under the state law.

So, again, we are going so far afield

of what is an appropriate interrogation of my

client. This is really getting to be abusive. And

I object to any more questions along these lines.


we've heard your argument. I don't have a problem

with the question. I'm going to allow it.

MR. STRACHMAN: Could you please read


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the question?

(Pending question read)

A. I have nothing to do with that. I would refer

them to Hailey Conn. She is the one that, I'm

assuming, drew up the deed, or somebody from that

office. Somebody did, I didn't do it. It would be,

I'd refer them back to an attorney.

In this case, did you show them the deed?

A. She handed it to me. I don't know if she showed

it to them before.

I'm asking about you. Did -—

A. I did not.

Please let me talk -—

A. I did not.

Let me talk, and then you can talk, so that it's

clear, okay? Did you show them the deed?

A. No.

MR. STRACHMAN: That's it.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: In light of the

time —— actually, would you mind stepping out for

one moment while we chat as a group, please?

(Brief recess taken, 4:19 p.m. to 4:24 p.m.)

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: In light of the

late hour, and the fact that the building closes at

4:30, we will recess the proceeding at this point.



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110

And we will work with your office to reschedule a

time that's mutually convenient. And at that point,

we will let you know of any additional witnesses.

We will discuss among ourselves about inviting

Mr. Pagliarini, to save everyone the effort of

issuing any sort of subpoenas. So we'll be in

touch. Thank you.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Okay, great. Thank

you.

(HEARING ADJOURNED AT 4:25 P.M.)


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C E R T I F I C A T E

I, PATRICIA A. MAGNONE, do hereby certify that the

foregoing is a true, accurate and complete transcript of

my notes taken at the above—entitled hearing.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

this 17th day of March 2017.

PATRICIA A. MAGNONE, RPR/NOTARY PUBLICmy Commission Expires January 10, 2021

Unauthorized Practice of Law CommitteeIN RE: William E. Paplauskas, Jr.DATE: March 1, 2017


mww :11iadnnnrtrennrters-com

9/5/201 8 8:44 AM

Hearing William E. Paplauskas, Jr.

March 1, 2017

67:13;79:10;107:9 11:4;12:7;21:16; 39:22 aspects (2)

$ acting (1) 22:17;29:7;30:15,16; amount (3) 19:12;35:12—————fi 19:10 36:20;38:2;93:17; 74:24;95:23;99:19 assert (1)

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9/5/201 8 8:44 AM


March 1, 2017

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SIP7‘

9/5/2b1 8 8:44 AM


March 1, 2017

28:1 34:20;35:12,12; 108:4,5 26:24 55:11

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clause (6) 79:14;80:1,2;81:6; 30:15:3222 53:1 country (1)

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27:19;38:1;95:3; 100:16 80:14 74:21 course (3)

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client (20) 47:13 35:23 11:16;12:1 9:24;11:25,25;15:22;

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71:16;72:15,18,22; 72:10 59:24;64:13,18; 57:13 32:18;34:11

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76:22;77:14;80:4,10, 4:11 conformance (1) 50:1 1;64:13; 12:2,8;3 1 :8

13,13;81:11,14,15, companies (13) 10:2 105:15,16 customary (1)

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85:17;86:2,4,14,22; 68:20,22,23,23; 48:17 5:21;6:2;10:14;

91:21,24;92:3;95:4; 69:12,14,17;70:20, Conn (19) 58:25;105:10,12,17, D98:16,17;100:17,22; 20;71:7 49:23:5111 1;55:2, 20;106:12,14

101:4;102:],6,8,9,10, company (28) 18,24;56:4,1 1,14; corporate (l) dad (1)

13,17,23;103:13; 54:19;58:2;63:24; 59:21;60:1;72:5,6,14, 42:23 26:16

105:3,10;106:17; 65:4;68:16;70:5,14, 19;77:2,4;84:17; Corporation (1) dark (5)

107:16;108:10 15,15,17,18,25,25; 106:6;109:4 20:9 51:16;71:15,18,19,

closings (46) 71 :4,4,6,8,10;78:1; consecutive (1) Correction (1) 23 7

11:19;3 1 :12;32:19; 79:4;80:18,19;88:8; 22:24 23:24 date (5)

33:17,23,24,24; 90:19;92:7;101:22; consequences (1) cost (1) 10:18;15:24;32:3;

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(3) claim — date

9/5/201 8 8:44 AM


March 1, 2017

41:18;59:11 detail (1) 13;19:9,18;21 2,4,17, due (15) entity (2)

dated (2) 98:2 21;22:1,2,3,9,19,20, 5:17;15:12;17:6; 71:6;80:14

4:5;14:6 details (l) 25;23:1,3,7,10,12,16, 27:2,5,6,8,1 1;54:7; envelope (2)

day (5) 21:17 20,24,24;24:2,4,6,10, 74:25,25;89:5,19; 63:18,22

45:17,]8;53:7; determination (1) 13,16,1 8,19,21,25; 95:25;97:1 8 envision (2)

7218,10 10:7 25:3,6;56:19,20,22, duly (1) 52:2,4

days (1) determine (6) 24,25;57:1,8,10,12, 18:14 envisioned (1)

49:16 6:22;7:25;11:9,13; 15;58:4,24;59:4,12, during (4) 8:6

deal (5) 12:1;31:3 15,25;60:13,20;64:1, 5:15;19:16;85:16; equity (2)

49:5,6;71:10,1 1; dial (1) 3,5;67:10,19,22;74:3, 103:12 50:19;91:14

77:16 82:21 17,18;75:12,20,24; duties (1) Error (1)

dealing (1) differ (1) 92:12;95:15;101:13; 7:21 21:22

62:6 70:17 102:12,15;103:15; Escrow (2)

dealings (1) difference (1) 108:1,8 E 24:14;65:21

78:18 52:13 documents (83) essentially (1)

deals (1) different (3) 5:21;13:4,6;16:12, Earlier (3) 12:22

80:22 29:9,11;50:18 17,22;17:15;18:24; 60:22;85:8;86:10 estate (22)

dealt (1) direct (3) 19:4,13;20:4,5,8,I3, ease (1) 5: 10;]8:16,19,21,

84:2 8:15;30:20;71:9 17,20,25;21:2;22:1 1, 20:22 25;19:3,4,5,8,13,16,

decide (2) directing (1) 13,14,17;25:8;33:5,7, eat (l) 17;33:17;39:5;43:19,

12:3;39:20 36:7 10,14;42:20;48:3; 43:16 21;46:13;47:2;63:14;

decided (2) directions (1) 49:25;50:5,10,13,15, educational (1) 73:1;76:20;89:18

49:7;64zl9 102:5 17,17,23;51:7;52:8; 41:23 estimate (l)

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Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—550011: bunniv Amman Pramhm. DI 07.07.11 www.alliedcnnrtrenorters.c0m

(4) dated - exclusive

Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:44 AM


March 1, 2017

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Mia—U—Scripfflb Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-55001 1: Dunnh A ...... a ("mnchm DI n’m’m www allindnnnrfrennrtnrsmnm

(5) exclusively — handling

WWHearing William E. Paplauskas, Jr.

March 1, 2017

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March 1, 2017

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26:1;35:18;40:24man's (1)

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materials (4)

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meetings (3)

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Megan (5)

78:10;82:22;83:6,

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(7) judge - Megan

WW1 8 MMM—


March 1, 2017

Member (10) 7829,11 7:1 1;16:2,1 1,22; numbers (2) 21 :22

25:20;29:8;37:5; move (6) 58:9,10;62:8 58:7;98:18 once (4)

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members (1) moving (2) nonattorneys (1) one (49)

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membership (1) Mrs (7) none (2) 27:20;31:25;41:10;

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middle (2)

2428,21

middleperson (1)

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might (3)

10:21;33:1;52:23

mind (1)

109:20

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minutes (11)

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moment (2)

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8;71:9;73:7;84:12;

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nature (1)

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necessity (l)

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notaries (6)

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note (23)

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notes (1)

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notify (1)

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notifying (1)

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number (14)

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obligation (4)

96:14;107:23,25;

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obligations (1)

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observer (1)

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obtain (l)

86:7

obtaining (1)

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occasion (1)

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69:21;84:8;91:24;

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occupation (2)

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officers (1)

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operating (2)

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opinion (1)

62:4

opportunity (4)

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option (1)

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15:7

ordering (1)

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organizations (l)

93:25original (1)

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(8) Member ~ out

Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:44 AM


March l, 2017

22,24;98:16;99:8,10;

105:13,15;107:5;

109220

out—of-state (2)

69:25;91:16

outrageous (1)

35:6

outrageously (1)

35:3

outset (1)

12:21

outside (1)

64:13

over (15)

4:15;29:6;33:4;

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overview (13)

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21;76:6;94:11,14,15,

23;95:9,17;97:13

own (13)

9:23;18:19;33:2,3;

34:15;47:6;57:16,21;

67:13;71:6;101:4,23;

108:2

owned (1)

79:3

owner (1)

18:15

owners (1)

47:10

ownership (2)

18:24;19:5

P

package (8)

22:6,12,21;62:17;

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packet (3)

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page (47)

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25:2,5,22;64:1;75:2,

15

Pages (3)

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Pagliarini (31)

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Paplauskas (30)

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Paplauskas‘ (1)

14:18

P—A—P-LA—U-s—K—A-s (1)

41:7

Paplauskas's (3)

16:17;21:10,15

paragraphs (1)

59:9

Pardon (1)

88:1

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55:12

part (10)

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81:15

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parties (2)

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Party (1)

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Pays (1)

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Pending (2)

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people (22)

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personal (1)

89:23

personally (1)

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phone (13)

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82:5,7,18,21,24;83:1,

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physically (1)

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Piccirilli (89)

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9:9;10:1,23,25;11:2,

10,13,18,23;12:7,12,

13,15,18;13:8,12,16,

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104:8,17,22;107:4,

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pick (1)

108:5

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possibly (2)

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Practice (34)

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29:6;30:22,25;31:6,

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pregnant (l)

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prepared (9)

9:4,5,7,8;13:13;

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prepayment (2)

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107:13

present (10)

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presented (10)

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presenting (1)

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primary (2)

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principal (2)

75:1;95z25

print (6)

50:7,14;59:10;

105:13,15,16

prior (3)

48:25;64:24;65:5

privilege (2)

30:8;37: 15

privileges (1)

30:8

privy (2)

65 :4;77: 10

IVEiu—U-Scrégotél) Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-55001 1 z mun» Ammm (‘mnatnn RI 07.020 www.alliedcnnrtrenorters.com

(9) out-of—state - privy

9757201 8 8:44 AM


March l, 2017

probable (2) 52:24 quote (2) 62:2; 1 03 : 1 2 9:14;3 1 :20

1019;36:23 protect (1) 104:6;105:3 receipt (1) regards (1)

probably (13) 52:1 quote/unquote (1) 10: 16 59:25

26:15;44:3,7;53:3; protesting (1) 71:15 receive (6) Registry (2)

55:3;78:23;79:22; 107:11 quotes (1) 6:2;10:3,4;63:6; 75:14,18

85:7,15;91:l;92:19, protests (1) 7 1 : 19 64: 10; 1 05 2 14 regularly (1)

23;93:8 107:10 received (8) 68:20

problem (6) protocol (1) R 4:5;1 6:16;20:2,14; relate (1)

75:18;85:24; 67:17 22:13;27:6;36:19; 33:5

104:20;108:9,9,23 provide (16) raise (1) 63:11 related (1)

procedure (6) 4:8;9:3;28:9; 18:4 receiving (l) 5:9

7:12;8:2;25:22; 35:23;48:14;49:24; range (1) 32:13 relating (1)

28:12,14,15 50:2;57:8;59:6; 53:14 recently. (1) 107:10

procedures (1) 78:25;94:1 1,14;96:5, rank (1) 87: 14 relationship (2)

40:20 14;107:25;108:7 8:13 receptionist (l) 68:19;71:9

proceed (8) provided (13) Rare (1) 103:1 0 relaxed (3)

10:22;28:4,5; 5:20;8:4;9:1; 76:24 recess (2) 4:10;5:19;104:9

30:10;32:15;35:12; 16:18;22:16;33:13; rate (2) 109:22,25 release (1)

39:18;40:9 56:24;60:9,23,24; 74:4,24 recognize (1) 65:20

proceeding (12) 63:23;64:6;1 08:14 rather (2) 56:20 relevant (1)

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28:3;30:14;35:25; 78:20 reached (l) 72:19 reluctance (1)

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88:17;89:22;109:25 8:21;61:13,23 read (19) 4:23;35:23 remained (1)

proceedings (2) provision (l) 15:9;18:1 1;29:19; record (14) 60:2

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processor (3)

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prohibits (1)

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promissory (1)

107:11

promotional (1)

94:7

promulgating (1)

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proof (3)

20:2,6,8

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58:12;85:2,12

publics (2)

79:1 1;107:8

Pulling (1)

27:20

purchase (12)

50:9,17;51 :25;

63:12;64:7;76:3,8;

77:21;91:22;93:6;

94:19;98:14

purchases (2)

91:15;93:2

purchasing (1)

77:20

purpose (1)

18:23

pursuant (3)

10:13,20;13:10

Put (15)

15:17;30:3;32:5;

40:19;44:9;63:22;

64:1 1;69:17;74:10,

17;83:2,4;95:13;

98:4;106:9

puffing (1)

20:10

Q

quickly (2)

65:14;84:14

quite (5)

29:14;3 1 :21;32:1,

15;107: 1 5

98:3,6,11;104:23;

108:25;109:2

reads (1)

18:13

real (23)

5:10;18:16,19,21,

25;19:3,4,5,7,12,16,

17;33:17;39:5;43:19,

21;46:13;47:2;57:25;

63:14;73:1;76:20;

89:18

really (8)

33:19;34:19;36:17;

53:1;60:5;74:6;

76:13;108:20

realtor (22)

51:22;55:1,2,3,18,

19;56:6;60:5,5;

71:25;100:2,5,6,7,10,

11,12,14,15,20;

101:5,6

realtors (4)

56:5,6;71:25;72:4

rearrange (1)

77:17

reason (2)

5:16;53:13

reasons (1)

47:14

Rebecca (5)

9:1;17:1;18:20;

21:5,12

recall (11)

32:13;47:18,19;

52:12;55:25;56:15;

59:14;60:3;61:24;

38:2;40:19,22;54:21;

65:18;95:3

recorded (3)

6:1;61:21;75:l4

recording (2)

64:21;75:18

Records (2)

6:20;27:24

redactions (1)

20:20

REEXAMINATION (1)

84:13

refer (4)

62:5,9;109:3,7

reference (4)

7:17;20:23;22:18,

22references (6)

8:13;69:8,9,9,1 1, 13

referrals (3)

42:21;69:20;70:4

referred (l)

49:11

referring (2)

83:18;104:5

refi (3)

50:18;91:22;94:17

refinance (2)

3221,23refinancing (1)

91 :13

refi's (2)

93:2,3

refusal (1)

40:16

refute (2)

18,19,21,25;101:2,4

remind (2)

25:21;36:1

remortgaging (2)

46:22;47:7

renew (1)

32: 1 6

reopen (2)

40:6,25

repeat (l)

42:16

repeatedly (1)

103:6

rephrase (1)

57:4

report (2)

7220;35:23

reports (1)

7:23

representatives (2)

3 1 :7;38:22

represented (6)

55:3;72:6,13,14;

77:5;80:3

representing (3)

52:5,6;57:24

reputation (1)

69:7

request (5)

5:17;23:17,21;

32:13,16

requested (2)

17:10;102:17

requests (1)

17:5

require (1)

Min—Scripféb Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-55001 1 z Dhanw Ammm Pranefnn. RT 02020 www.alliedcourtrenortersxom

(10) probable - require

9/?2018 8:44 AM


March 1, 2017

64:9 right (50) 51:25;76:4,8 second (3) set (3)

required (1) 4:13;5:14,23; same (15) 24:23;60:24;63:2 50:8,8g58z25

107:12 13:19;15:3,17;17:12; 20:7;21:11;22:3; secure (2) sets (1)

requirement (1) 23:18;28:4;30:7,10, 26:1;27:17;40:8; 18:24;19:5 9:13

29:15 18;32:10,1 1,17;35:9, 50:13,15;70:23; seeing (1) setting (1)

requires (1) 10;37:13;47:1;51:18; 75:10;79:8;83:5,22; 97:5 8:7

11:19 54:8;57:22;64:5; 84:2,7 seems (1) Settlement (7)

reschedule (3) 66:22;67:18;74: l 1, sanction (1) 44:12 22:20;24:20,24;

27:21;86:4;110:1 12;78:12;88:17;'

sell (1) 98:15,18;99:6,13

reserve (1) 89:22;90:1 1, 13,22; sat (3) 32:25 several (2)

39:17 91:6,9;92:16,18; 56:12;100:11,14 seller (20) 17:5;20:25

Residential (2) 94:1 1,22;95:13; SAUNDERS (69) 49:22;50:10,17; shall (5)

23:1 1;25:1 102:2,14,24;105:15, 4:2,17;6:10,16,19, 52:6;55:3,20;72:7; 25:23,25;26:1;

resolve (1) 17,21,23;106:6; 25;7:5,I4;10:1,24; 76:2;77:5;78:2;80:3, 36:2,2

6:3 108:1,11 11:1,8,12,21,24; 17,25;85:18,25;95:5; Sheet (3)

respect (4) risk (1) 12:1 1,15,20;13:1 1, 99:4,5;105:25;106:5 24:17,20;54:6

54:7;72:24;89:5,19 54:20 15,21;14:16,20;15:1, sellers (4) sheriff‘s (1)

respond (6) RM (2) 13;16:2l;17:20;18:2, 63:7;72:13,14,15 20:3

9:25;27:10;30:18, 22:23;23:4 7;25:19;26:5;27:14; seller's (3) ship (1)

18;36:8;97:4 Road (2) 28:16,20,24;29:4; 55:18;80:7;106:19 63:22

RESPONDENT (7) 18:17;19:1 30:12;32:12;35:7,20; send (4) shipped (2)

5:6,8;8:3,3,10; role (5) 36:11,15;38:5;39:16, 29:24;30:1;63:21; 62:19;106:9

25:23;36:2 29:22;48:2;81:8; 21;40:2,15;41:3; 94:8 Shipping (2)

response (10) 90:16;94:10 45:2;53:10,22;63:17, sends (1) 25:4;63z23

14:6,8,12,18; room (23) 20;66:7;75:7,10,23; 92:7 shoot (1)

16:17;22:14,17;27:7; 44:16,17,20;45:7; 76:5,9;83:12,17,24; sense (3) 45:21

67:7,15 55:7,14,17,17,22; 84:5,10;104:19; 39:14,]5;51:22 shot (1)

responsibilities (1) 56:8,13,14;59:24; 107:20;108:22; sent (2) 73:16

65:11 60:2;64:13,18;72:20; 109:19,23 1525;17:15 show (6)

rested (5) 76:22;84:23;88:12; save (1) sentence (1) 51:7;63:25;91:5;

30:17;37:2,7; 90:1;100:5,6 110:5 14:17 99:14;109:8,16

40:14,15 Rotary (1) saw (6) separate (l) showed (3)

retain (1) 93:20 90:9;98:21,22; 30:17 71:20;97:3;109:9

78:14 Rule (7) 100:2,3,3 series (2) showing (1)

retained (1) 7:22;26:4;28:8; saying (9) 12:22;37:24 91:3

81:2 29:19;36:1;44:25; 15:6;27:20;30:1; serious (1) side (3)

return (3) 104:18 33:12;38:22;44:20; 40:23 38:22;99:5,6

10:17;20:3;23:21 rules (22) 46:25;88:13;89:7 serve (1) sign (15)

returning (1) 4:10;5:12,19;7:12, scenario (1) 4:18 17:16;39:9;59:10;

20:21 17;8:2,6;9:23;10:3, 52:2 served (3) 60:10,1 1,12,20;

review (9) 14,20;13:10;25:21, schedule (3) 25:24;26:18,19 67:18;73:2,22;74:1;

17:10;34:24;73:5, 21;27:13,15;28:1 1, 77:17,18,19 service (8) 94:16;95:10,13;

21;74:8,11,13,15; 12,13,15;37:1;104:9 scheduled (1) 20:2,3,6,8;27:12; 105:18

97:2 ruling (3) 95:25 41:13;71:4;85:10 signature (17)

reviewed (1) 5:24;6:18;37:22 scheduling (3) ServiceLink (35) 21:7,9,1 1,14;23:9,

36:22 run (3) 48:9,10,11 16:19;20:9;22:13, 13,14,19,23;24:1,3,5,

reviews (1) 12:19:76z21; Schmoe (1) 15;34:17,23,25;48:6, 9,1 1;25:5;60:18,1 8

40:22 101224 77:20 7,13,21;49:12,24; signatures (17)

revisit (1) running (1) school (7) 5 1 : 1 0,1 1;52:3,5; 19:19;21:4,18,24;

29:21 90:19 28:3;41:24,25; 56:25;57:8,18;60:25; 22:4,5,25;23:5;60:14,

revolving (1) runs (1) 42:1,3,4,6 65:17,23;70:12,13; 16;61:1,4,10,1 1,14;

8:14 22:1 scope (1) 71 :9,24;78: 15,18,20; 62:15;63:3

Rhode (37) 107:17 80:13;84:17;102:5, signed (7)

18:17,23;19:1; S screened (1) 16;]05:14 17:11;19:13,17,22;

29:6;31:13;33:8,9; 10:6 ServiceLink's (1) 24:12;63:4,5

34:24;39:2,4;41:13; safe (1) screening (2) 49:19 significance (1)

46:5,20,21;47:1,4,5, 85:13 10:5;36:21 services (4) 103215

9,9,12,14;51:17; salary (1) screwed (1) 43:5;48:14;70:1 1; signing (9)

68:25;69:23;70:1; 43:8 108:15 77:24 42:22;56:9;68:4,5,

72:11;79:7;83:14,19; sale (4) search (2) serving (1) 23;70:15,17;71:6;

86:21;87:22;9l :1 1, 34:3;39:5;93:6; 51:19,19 91:20 80:18

18,18;92:25;107:6; 94:20 searches (2) session (2) signingagentcom (1)

108:6 sales (3) 48:16;49:4 39:24;40:l 93:22

Miya-U—Scriptib Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—55001 1 < phoniv Avenue. Crangtnn. RI 02920 www.alliedcourtrenorters.com

(11) required - signingagentcom

9/?2618 8:44 AM


March 1, 2017

signings (1) speak (2) stop (2) support (4) 66:1 1;92:17

70:22 63:1;69:9 46:16;86:2 37:3;38:13;88:2; » tells (2)

signs (1) speaker (2) STRACHMAN (14) 89:21 62:13;81:17

52:7 83:3,4 27:5,16;28:1,21, Suppose (1) ten (7)

silent (1) speakerphone (1) 25;30:5;37:10;45:24; 85:25 42:15,17;66:20;

60:2 83:2 54:7;87:16;98:3; supposed (2) 76:13;9l:1,2,19

similar (l) specific (6) 104:16;108:25; 8:4;62218 tendering (1)

75:24 8:9;18:4;47:15; 109:18 Supreme (28) 8:14

similarly (l) 61:24;88:18;108:6 Strachman's (1) 4223;718,14;9:23; Terms (6)

20:7 specifically (13) 29:8 11:25,25;27: 12,14; 21 :3;75:25;76:3,7;

simply (8) 8:8,23;9:2,13; strictly (1) 28:4,1 1,14,16,22,23; 97:17;107:1

5:16;13:24;15:14; 28:18;31:20;34:11; 74:20 29:2,21,23,25;30:10, testified (2)

16:14;24:22;25:11; 63:9;100:17,21; strike (1) 25;31:2;33:22;35:24; 39:1;67:7‘

45:9;58r22 101:1,2;107:8 77:11 37:12;38:24;44:24; testify (22)

single (2) specifics (2) stubs (1) 87:8,23 9:1-7;15:20;17:6;

39:4,8 10:19;45:11 63:14 Sure (22) 26:1;30:9,9,16;31:11,

sit (2) speculative (2) stuff (3) 6:10,25;7:1;10:17; 19;32:3;34:2;36:2,7;

74:13;82:21 104:10;107:5 64:23;65:3;74:6 11:1,21;14:16;18:7; 37:13,14;38:12,18;

sitting (4) spend (1) stupid (1) 29:16;41:1 1;52:7; 39:1 1;40:5,17;52:20;

4:12;26:1 6;55:6; 82:22 64:22 54:21;57:6;67:2,6,8, 96:7

82:2 spends (1) sua (1) 11,15;75:9;84:20; testifying (5)

situation (2) 62:12 10:20 103:11,23 17:21,22;36:4;

37:25;76:21 sponte (1) subject (4) surprised (2) 37:12,12

six (1) 10:20 6:14;17:3;25:10; 38:2;71:20 testimony (3)

46:10 stacks (1) 40: 12 swear (2) 38:17,21,21

skills (1) 73:21 subjected (1) 15:17;41:3 third (1)

66:23 stage (2) 34:22 sworn (3) 81 :2

slash (2) 35:24;45:8 submitted (1) 14:23;18:14;41:5 though (5)

21:22;24:24 stand (1) 4:6 10:9;12:9;29:13;

slightly (1) 25:25 subpoena (13) T 3 1 :5;46:25

5:19 start (2) 15:5,7,21;20:4,8; thought (9)

smart (1) 66:8;76:12 22:14;25:24;26:2,8, table (4) 8:19;28:13;29:24;

33:2 started (2) 20;29:16;32:2; 56:13;86:3;88:9; 59:16;64:22;68:2;

so-and-so (1) 4:20;49:7 108:15 99:11 76:23;78:11;93:12

82:22 state (18) subpoenaed (2) talk (ll) thousand (4)

somebody (13) 17:7;32:19;33:8,9, 13:20;20:13 5:7;51:24;58:1,2; 44:3;67:24;85:14,

34:4;39:9;44:19; 20;35:4;38:15;39:8; subpoenas (3) 75:4,21;83:5;91 :18; 15

48:8;69:8;89:25; 41:13;42:9;46:4,7; 27:17,18;110:6 109:13,15,15 threatened (1)

104:4,1 1,25;105:2, 81:1 1;86:15,21; Subsection (1) talked (1) 88:4

24;109:5,6 107:9;108:16,17 25:22 100:14 threatening (1)

someone (8) stated (1) substantiate (1) talking (2) 15:6

9:5;15:11;26:8,25; 71:14 9:17 69:7;92:1 three (10)

29:22,25;30:1;68:6 Statement (11) substantiated (1) talks (1) 13:6;16:1 1:46: 17;

Sometime (1) 21:16;22:20;23:2; 8:1 95:18 61:19;73:8;74:8,15;

49:16 24:15;53:23;69:3; successful (1) Tanner (1) 79:19,21;90:7

Sometimes (9) 89:15;98:15,1 8;99:7, 87:11 48:12 three-person (1)

63:8,10,10,1 1,13, 13 sue (l) Tax (3) 36:21

15,15;103:2,5 statements (1) 88:5 18:17;23:21;24:17 throughout (2)

somewhere (5) 25:13 sufficient (3) taxes (1) 70:21;76:19

28:9;72:17;83:23; statute (13) 60:1 1;73:4,7 63:14 times (1)

91:17,25 6:23;7:4;11:19,22; suggest (4) Taxpayer (1) 92:21

sorry (14) 12:10;28:10;30:24; 34:7;38:15;88:16; 23:17 Title (40)

5:8;11:12;37:10; 31:4,5;33:6;107:6, 102:16 technical (1) 24:23;25:3;27:18;

42:16;57:4;63:19; 22;108:6 suggested (l) 57:25 34:24;42:21;48:15,

72:6;76:10;78:10; statutory (2) 25:20 Ted (1) 16;49:4;51:18,19;

84:5;86:13;91 : 10; 29: 1;37:15 suggests (2) 86:18 54:19;63:24;65:4;

93:17;96:6 stenographer (1) 47:17;55:24 teleconferenced (1) 68:23;70:14,15,17,

sort (1) 6:1 summation (1) 82:3 20,25;71:7,8,10,22;

110:6 stepping (1) 25:14 telemarketer (1) 76:6;78:1,21,22,23;

sounds (1) 109:20 summons (2) 90:17 79:1,4;80:18;88:7;

43:18 still (7) 26:9,20 telephone (4) 92:7;101 :21;107:24;

spans (2) 14:15;46: 1 9,25; Superior (1) 8 1 :24;82:3;83: 1,25 108:2,2,4,5,11

22:20;23:8 47:1;84:7;93:5,7 15:22 telling (2) titled (25)

IVEiu—UuSei'épf® Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—55001 1: Dhaniv Avamm Franctnn. RI 0207.0 www.alliedcnnrtrennrfers-com

(12) signings - titled

Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:44 AM


March 1, 2017

16:13;19:9;21 :3,

15,22;22:1,l9;23:2,8,

11,17,21,24;24:3,6,

10,14,17,20,23;25:1,

6;56:l9;64:1;75:25

Tiverton (6)

5:1 1;18:17,17,23;

19:1;72111

today (14)

4:4,13;5:22;11:13;

17:6;27:23;32:11,13;

37:2;60:22;78:3;

84:8;89:22;90:4

told (15)

30:10;50:24;51:2,

21;53:14;64:21,22;

71:17;95:14,17,21;

96:4,7;99:5;104:25

Tom (5)

4:12,15,18;12:20;

37:6

took (3)

54:22;64:17;72:16

tOP (3)

13:6;20zl 1;58:4

Total (1)

44:5

totally (1)

9:18

touch (1)

110:7

towards (1)

72:1

town (1)

61:21

training (1)

42:3

transact (1)

107:9

transaction (12)

50:18,19,20;51 :23;

63:9,12;65:25;70:12;

72:2;73:2;81:3;86:25

transcript (2)

6:2;23:21

transpires (1)

78:2

Transport (1)

92:10

tried (2)

44:9;86zl7

true (2)

10:8;36:23

Truth-in—Lending (1)

23:2

trying (9)

30:15;44: 13;45:9,

25;82:4,15;87:8,22;

88:5

turn (3)

4:15;25:12;47:15

Turning (15)

21 :21,25;22:2,4,

19;23:1,7,16,20,23;

24:2,13,19,25;25:2

two (24)

9:16;16:22;29:9,

10;30:17;32:24;

33:12;56:4,6,7;

58:10;60:13;61:18;

62:12;69:24;73:8,13,

15;82:22;83:4;101:2;

105:15,l6;106:20

two-page (1)

23:3

type (7)

15:12;20:7;21:1 1;

33:13;43:6;50:12,20

types (2)

33:23,24

typically (3)

81:12;91:8,12

25:4

UPLC (12)

13:1,2,3;14:3,21;

16:5,6,7;19:23,24,25;

22:8

upon (5)

5:2;18:14;25:24;

40:16;73:20

UPS (3)

62:18,22;65:13

used (5)

9:10,11;26:16;

66:22;83:18

using (2)

11:5;76:12

usually (5)

51:19;73:19,25;

82:9;100:23

voluntarily (1)

29: 1 7

vote (l)

38:6

W

UV

ultimate (1)

3 1 :2

Unauthorized (7)

4:3,22;5:5;7:24;

30:24;34:13;36:24

unavailable (l)

17:8

uncontradicted (l)

33 : 11

under (15)

7:4,21,22;8:1;9:22,

23;26:1;32:4;36:25;

39:1;45:1;46:23;

67:13;95:21;108:17

Understood (2)

14:14;76:10

underwriter (1)

78:25

unfair (1)

35:1

Uniform (1)

23:11

union (2)

3 1 :6;38:22

unless (2)

4: 14;6:4

unprofessional (1)

8: 12

unsigned (1)

105:12

unsubstantiated (1)

8:1

up (25)

6:8;7:2;31:22;34:4,

6;35:18;57:12;61:12,

16;66:8;69:6,21;

71:20;74:6,20;75:6,

8;86:16;91 :3,5;97:3;

101:20,20;108:15;

109:5

Updated (1)

vacationing (2)

46:21;47:5

variations (2)

20:25;50:22

varies (2)

43:6;50:20

variety (1)

47:14

various (5)

12:23;17:1 1;61210;

70:3;93:14

vendetta (1)

89:23

verifying (1)

17:11

versus (1)

77:17

Vespia (10)

26: 1 1,12, 17:3727;

41:12,15;47:22;53:3;

85:1;87114

via (3)

81:24;82:3;83:1

Vincent (12)

9:1;16:25;18:12,

14;19:22;21:5,8;

23:10,15,23;24:1,5

violate (1)

30:23

violated (3)

44:21,23;108:16

violation (3)

37:15;38:15,16

violations (1)

8:9

violative (1)

27:2

VM (4)

22:23;23 24:24: 1 6,

18

volume (1)

20: 1 6

W-2s (1)

63:14

wait (1)

85:19

waiting (1)

37:17

walk (5)

99:1,17,17,18,25

walked (4)

99:15,16,21;101:5

wants (3)

34:4;54:9;88:19

War (l)

47:13

Warranty (3)

25:6;64:2;77:7

water (1)

63:13.

way (8)

12:19;31:17;44:14;

62:10;70:23;84:2;

88:20;100:23

website (3)

93:21;94:4,5

websites (4)

70:3;93:13,14,15

week (l)

49:17

welcome (1)

45:13

What's (4)

53:8;56:18;63:25;

88:22

white (1)

74:5

whole (5)

29:13;38:8;53:7;

60:22;99:18

wife (7)

17:3;18:20;55:1;

67:4;68:3,3;83:4

William (6)

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STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AND PROVIDENCE PLANTATIONSSUPREME COURT

UNAUTHORIZED PRACTICE OF LAW COMMITTEE

PROCEEDINGS AT HEARINGIN RE:

WILLIAM E. PAPLAUSKAS, JR.

VOLUME II

PLACE: STATE OF RHODE ISLAND SUPREME COURTBOURCIER CONFERENCE ROOM7TH FLOOR .

250 BENEFIT STREETPROVIDENCE, RI 02903

‘DATE: MAY 9, 2017TIME: 1:00 P.M.

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DEBRA A. SAUNDERS, CHAIRWGMANJANET GILLIGAN, ESQUIREMEGAN MACIASZ DISANTO, ESQUIREVINCENT VESPIA, JR.DAVID J. STRACHMAN, ESQUIRETHOMAS BERGERON, ESQUIRE

FOR THE RESPONDENT ..... GREGORY P. PICCIRILLI,ESQUIRE



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM

INDEX

WITNESS PAGE

JOHN PAGLIARINI

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BERGERON ......EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO ......EXAMINATION BY MR. STRACHMAN ............EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS ......RE—EXAMINATION BY MR. STRACHMAN .........EXAMINATION BY MR. VESPIA ...............RE—EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO...RE—EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS...CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. PICCIRILLI .....

HAILEY MUNNS

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BERGERON ......EXAMINATION BY MS. GILLIGAN ............. .

EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN'SAUNDERS ......CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. PICCIRILLI .....

72121252628293233

66798384



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9/5/201 83:46 AM

WITNESS

INDEX

JOHN MAJEWSKI

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BERGERON ......EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS ......EXAMINATION BY MR. VESPIA ...............EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO ......RE—EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS...RE—EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO...FURTHER EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMANSAUNDERS ................................EXAMINATION BY MS. GILLIGAN .............EXAMINATION BY MR. STRACHMAN ............FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZDISANTO .................................CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. PICCIRILLI .....

REBECCA MAJEWSKI

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BERGERON ......

101131132133134135

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159



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9/5/201 8 8:46 Aw

NO.

EXHIBITEXHIBITEXHIBIT

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EXHIBITS

DESCRIPTION (UPLC'S)

STATUTE l9—9—6(1PG) .......... 37STATUTE 42—30—8(1PG) ......... 54STANDARDS OF CONDUCT OFNOTARIES PUBLIC(12PGS) ....... 573—29—2002 LETTER(13PGS) ...... 16812—20—2002 LETTER(17PGS) ..... 168



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II ~ May 9, 2017

(HEARING COMMENCED AT 1:00 P.M.)

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Good

afternoon, gentlemen. I'm Deb Saunders. You

may recall I'm chairing these proceedings

before the Unauthorized Practice of Law

Committee. If you would just do me a favor

and identify yourselves for the record.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Greg Piccirilli

for William Paplauskas, Jr.

MR. PAPLAUSKAS: William

Paplauskas, Jr.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I will take

a moment, if it is okay, and go around the

table and introduce the members of the

Committee that are here today.

Starting at the other end of the

table is Attorney Janet Gilligan. Megan

Maciasz DiSanto. Our public member, Chief

Vespia. And Attorney David Strachman.

You may recall Tom Bergeron, our

staff attorney prosecuting for the

Committee.

You may also recall when we were

here last on March 1, 2017, we were in the

middle of testimony of your client. In light



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II — May 9, 2017

of the fact that we have additional witnesses

here today, we are going to proceed out of

order and ask to have those witnesses came in

first to testify and then continue with any

further questioning of your client.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Yes, I have no

objection to that.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Great. With

that, I will turn it over to Mr. Bergeron.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Just to be clear,

I think we are on my presentation of the

case. I understood the Cdmmittee rested. I

called Mr. Paplauskas. He was under —— I

examined him. I think we ended the

cross—examination. Mr. Strachman was in the

process of cross-examining him.

I understand the witnesses are

here, but I think it's my choice to call them.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: To refresh

your recollection, you had a motion to

dismiss pending. That motion to dismiss, you

may recall in reviewing the transcript, you

indicated that you did not want your client

to testify unless your motion to dismiss was

denied.



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II — May 9, 2017

It was, in fact, denied. So then

it was contingent upon us reopening the case

and questioning your client. So we are

continuing with the prosecution of the case

by Mr. Bergeron.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I don't remember

it that way.

MR. BERGERON: I'll start by

calling John Pagliarini as a witness.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. Good

morning, Mr. Pagliarini. I'm Deb Saunders.

I chair the proceeding on behalf of the

Unauthorized Practice of Law Committee. 1f

you would please state your name for the'

record.

THE WITNESS: John A. Pagliarini,

Jr.

Being duly sworn, deposes and

testifies as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BERGERON

Goodlafternoon, Mr. Pagliarini.

A. Good afternoon.

I'm Tom Bergeron. As you know, I am counsel

for the Committee and I'll be asking you some

questions today.



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


After I'm done, Mr. Piccirilli,

counsel for Mr. Paplauskas, may ask you a few

questions.

A. Okay.

What is your date of birth?

A. February 19, 1964.

What is your current occupation?

A. Attorney.

When were you admitted to the Rhode Island

bar?

A. June of 2000.

Are you admitted to the bar in any other

state?

A. I am not. I am admitted —— I am a member

of the Federal Bar and United States Supreme

Court Bar.

Have you practiced law in Rhode Island since

you were admitted to the Rhode Island Bar?

A. I have.

Have you been in private practice since then?

A. I have.

Do you practice any particular fields of law?

A. Real estate.

And what kind of things do you do in real

estate law?



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9/5/201 83:46 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. ~ Vol. II — May 9, 2017

A. Under the umbrella of real estate, I do

residential closings, commercial closings. I

do zoning and planning, land use law and ad

valorem, which is property tax appeals.

You said in your capacity as an attorney, you

conduct real estate closings?

A. I do.

And is that —~ which party to the transaction

is that on behalf of?

A. It could be seller or it could be the

buyer, or it could be both in the same

transaction.

So you have done all these of those before?

A. Absolutely.

Could you generally estimate for the

Committee just how often you do Closing

transactions?

A. I would say the office, at the time of

this appeal, was probably doing about 150 a

year.

So a considerable number?

A. A considerable number.

The complaint in this matter relates to a

real estate closing that took place on July

21, 2015. Do you recall that?



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


A. I do.

Do you recall that closing?

A. I do.

This is Exhibit 1. I am handing you a

document that was previously marked as

Exhibit l.

A. Okay.

Can you take a look at that document for a

second?

A. Yes.

Do you recognize that document?

A. I do.

What do you recognize it to be?

A. This is a complaint I filed with this

Committee.

And on the last page —— can you go to the

last page?

A. Yes.

IS that your signature?

A. It is.

Could you generally describe that document to

the Committee?

A. As far as the basis of the complaint?

I guess generalIy you have already

categorized it as your complaint to the

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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


11

Committee?

A. It is my complaint to the Committee. I

tried to inform the Committee of the facts as

I believed they occurred and why I felt that

this was a matter that needed their attention

to go forward.

We will came back to more of the substance of

it later, but is that a fair and accurate

copy of what you sent?

A. It is.

This letter identifies a man named William

Paplauskas; have you met Mr. Paplauskas

before?

A. The day of the closing.

Is Mr. Paplauskas here today?

A. I will assume so. I met him once.

Do you recognize him?

A. I would so no to that.

You don't recognize him?

A. I do not.

Back to this closing in particular, did you

have any role in preparing documents in

anticipation of that closing?

A. I prepared, along with Attorney Hailey

Mhnns, who'was Hailey Conn at the time, I



K.

Na.)

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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


12

would have reviewed the seller's documents

because the seller was unable to attend the

closing.

We did the seller's side of the

transaction prior to the buyers Gaming in it

for the scheduled time.

Okay. Where did the closing take place?

A. It occurred at my office at 3913 Main

Road, Suite E, Tiverton.

Do you recall who was in the office that day?

A. It would have been myself, Attorney Conn

at the time, probably the Realtor, Janney

Arricell, and Vincent and Rebecca Majewski

and Mr. Paplauskas.

And where within your general office did the

closing take place?

A. In the conference room.

And do you know who was in the conference

room at the beginning of the closing?

A. At the beginning of the closing, it would

have been everybody present but myself.

Did you ever go into the closing room?

A. I did not.

Were you present in.the closing room during

the signing of any of the documents?



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777777975/201 8 8:46 AM


13V

A. I was not.

Where were you during the closifig?

A. I was at my desk, which is a separate room

closer to the door.

And so what happened after the closing

started?

A. After the closing started, Attorney Conn

came out to me and said that Mr. Paplauskas

was not an attorney and that she was

uncomfortable being in the roam.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I will object.

This is hearsay.

MR. BERGERON: I suggest it is not

hearsay because it's not offered to prove the

truth of the matter, it's just what was told

to him.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I wiil allow

it.

A. In our practice, we often have attorneys

who prepare documents on the seller's side,

but then do not attend the closing. It is

disconcerting for us that are physically

there because you never know what will happen

at a closing.

If an attorney is representing the



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


14

seller and they prepare documents, it's our

expectation that they are going to physically

attend the closing.~

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'm going to

object. What is the relevance of the

seller's documents? That is not why we are

‘here today.

THE WITNESS: I am trying to

answer the question.

MR. PICCIRILLI: The question was

what did Ms. Conn say when she came out of

the room.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I will allow

it.

THE WITNESS: We don't like it

when ~—


MR. BERGERON: Let me rephrase the

question.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

Start from the beginning, speaking directly

to the point of what happened after she came

out?

A. Ms. Conn came out and told me

Mr. Paplauskas was not an attorney, he was a



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


15

notary public. I said please remove yourself

from the room. We do not represent the

buyers. I do not want you on malpractice

covering any information given to the buyers

of the property, so She left the room. It's

my belief that the Realtor also left the

room.

Do you know at what point in the closing this

are interaction took place; was it at the

beginning?

A. It would have been near the very

beginning.

And where was -— did you say that she exited

the room and you told her not to go back in?

A. That is correct.

Did she go back in?

A. I don't believe she would have gone in,

unless to go in and say that she was not

going to stay in the room.

Do you know where she would have been for the

remainder of the closing?

A. She would have been in her office.

Just to repeat, you were not in the

conference room during the closing?

A. That is correct.



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


16

And what happened after the closing?

A. After the closing, Mr. Paplauskas and the

Majewskis exited the conference room. I was

in possession of the seller's document, the

deed.

And I went to convey them to

Mr. Paplauskae, saying are you going to go

and record them, at which point he informed

me that no, he did not do that. He sent all

of the documents to the lender, and the

lender would then forward them to the title

company for recording.

This made me uneasy because I'm

holding that deed in escrow and I tendered it

to him, even though I didn't receive the

funds or any knowledge that they would be

sent to me shortly.

My recollection is that it did not

go on record for three days.

Why don't we stop there for now.

A. Okay.

After he came out with the closing documents,

did you look at any of the executed

documents?

A. I did not.



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l7

Did you provide him with the deed?

A. I did, amongst other documents.

Can you say one more time what the other

documents, other than the deed, would have

been?

A. Residency affidavits for the seller. We

have other seller documents that we prepare,

things along the lines of proration of taxes

if there are issues down the line because

some closings occur before the next property

tax bill comes out.

We have certain disclosure forms

that we prepare. He would have been given

whatever we needed to give him.

After Mr. Paplauskas left your office, did

you have any more contact with him?

A. No.

Do you know generally how long after the

closing you filed your complaint?

A. A matter of weeks.

Just talking relatively in terms of time, I

think you are saying weeks?

A. Yes, maybe two weeks.

And could you explain to the Committee why

you felt a need to file this complaint?



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. ~ Vol. II ~ May 9, 2017

18

A. To me, this is a much bigger issue than

Mr. Paplauskas and whatever he did or didn't

say in the conference roam.

This was occurring approximately,

I believe, when in 2014 or 2015 the new rules

came into place for the Consumer Finance

Protection Bureau.

And we are under heavy scrutiny to

conform with all of the new policies that

this Federal Government agency was putting

upon closing attorneys to the point where we

had to upgrade software.

We had to put security protocols

in place. We got insurance in case the

office was hacked.

We spent a considerable amount of

money protecting our office because this is

our profession.

We have a notary public who shows

up to do the closing who is not subject to

any of the same rules that we are subject

to. This is the biggest asset the Majewskis

may or may not ever buy.

In my opinion, a notary can say,

sign here. He cannot say this is this form,



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9/5/201 8 8:46 AM


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your interest rate is this. That is

officiating a closing.

What I found troubling was the

recording, where Mr. Paplauskas told me that

he didn't do the recording. Now I don't know

where my original signed deed is going. I

don't know —— it's not going to be in his

custody because he said he was overnighting

it to a lender.

I inquired about who would be

doing the recording and I don't know was the

response that I got. When, I don't know was

the response that I received.

And then you start taking a look

at the bigger picture. My escrow account,

every month the interest is swept. I don't

know if the person who was doing this is

subject to those rules.

So now this goes to a policy of

the Rhode Island Bar Association, that all

the interest in my IOLTA account is swept

monthly for indigent defense.

Now you start wondering when an

out—of-state bank is doing this practice, are

they under the same rules that I'm under, so



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you start getting into equity.

Then you get into the issues of I

represent the seller. Well, normally the

seller has vacated the house. They have

tendered the keys for the buyer. If there is

a loss due to a fire before that house is

recorded, now we have an issue.

The seller has to bear the cost in

this notary transaction for insuring the

house for'an additional two or three days and

that is not ordinary and customary in the

State of Rhode Island.

I looked at it in its totality and

it was just enough that I felt that this

needed to be addressed by this Committee on

whether or not a notary public, under these

new rules —— once the Consumer Finance

Protection Bureau started changing the

closing world in the State of Rhode Island,

and everything that I'm subject to, I think

it's time that the Committee looked at who is

doing closings as a consumer—protection

iSSue.

MR. BERGERON: Okay. Do any of

the Committee members have questions for

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Mr. Pagliarini?

MS. MACIASZ DISANTO: I have a

question.

EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO

Are you»aware of the Department of Justice,

whether or not attorneys should be required

to attend real estate closings?

A. I am not.

Are you aware if attorneys need to be present

for a11 and conduct all real estate closings?

A. I am not.

I was just asking you that because I don't

know if that has changed since these new

federal regulations.

A. Okay.

MR. STRACHMAN: I have a question.


Was there any indication that Mr. Paplauskas

was doing anything other than serving as a

notary, in other words, ascribing the

witness' signature, while at your office?

A. No. I did have a conversation with the

buyers post-closing, but I will leave their

testimony to them.

What did they tell you?



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A. They were unsettled ~—

MR. PICCIRILLI: A ruling,

please.


it.

THE WITNESS: It is my

recollection they were unsettled. They

expected an attorney to be officiating their

closing.V

That means you did not conduct the closing,

the closing was conducted by your associate?

A. Technically at the closing, the settlement

agent is the buyer's attorney, which leads to

a very interesting happening in this case.

As the buyers walked out of the

room and I asked for a copy of the settlement

agreement, it was not signed by

Mr. Paplauskas, who said that it got sent to

the bank and that somebody there signed it.

I have a non—attending party who is the

settlement agent, which is very odd.

So the transaction was not complete?

A. That is technically correct.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Objection. That



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is an incorrect statement of the law.


it.

THE WITNESS: Until the deed was

recorded that completes the transaction.

There was no recording of the deed?

A. Yes.

There was no signed equivalent of the HUD—l

form?

A. Buyers signed, sellers signed, settlement

agent did not sign. Now whether or not that

makes it defective, I don't know.

It was not completed that day in your office?

A. I will say correct to that statement.

Your clients did not get their dough?

A. That is correct.

Right?

A. Yes.

And they didn't know for sure when they would

get the dough?

A. Correct.

And your clients are still insuring the

property?

A. Correct.

And you don't know for sure who Mr.



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II ~ May 9,.2017

24

Paplauskas is sending these documents to?

A. That is correct.

Original documents, like the deed?

A. Correct.

Is that right?

A. He said he was sending them to the lender.

And it is not a matter of his misleading

anybody, we are not talking about that, you

just didn't know where it was going for sure?

A. That's right.

Compare that to a lawyer showing up at the

closing, why is that different if a local

lawyer frdm your town would have appeared for

the bfiyer?

A. If a local attorney showed up, he would

have left-and I probably would have gotten a

call within an hour or two that it was on

record and that we were done.

And then he either —— the custom

in Rhode Island is that my seller's

proceeds -— he issues the checks, he is the

settlement agent.

If the seller requested funding by

check, he asked me to hold it in escrow, he

will give me the seller's proceeds, a



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — V01. II — May 9, 2017

25

$500,000 check. I would hold it.

He will send me a text message and

say, I am on record and I can release the

check immediately. It normally happens

within the same day by the close of business.

When did your clients actually receive their

funds in that case?

A. It’is my understanding three days later it

was wired.

But you didn't know leaving that closing

exactly when it would be wired?

A. No.

And you didn't know what day it would be

wired?

A. No.

And you didn't know who was going to wire it?

A. Not at all.

All you knew effectively was there was a

notary acting as a currier, right, who took

the documents and relayed them to the lender?

A. Yes.

MR. STRACHMAN: Thank you.

EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS

Mr. Pagliarini, in all of your years or your

experience as an attorney performing



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W018 8:46 AM


closings, how often have you experienced a

ndtary appearing on behalf of ——

A. This was the first instance. I know it

occurs daily because there are title

companies that are run by notaries public

that do not have attorneys on staff. It does

happen daily, just in my happenings, it just

never occurred.

RE—EXAMINATION BY MR. STRACHMAN

I'm a little confused. You said your

partner, or associate, Ms. Conn, you didn't

want her.in the room with the buyers; is that

right?

A. Correct.

Why was that?

A. We get paid by the seller to represent the

seller. Because there was no other attorney

in the roam, I didn't want her giving legal

advice.

Now, one can make a philosophical

argument that it could have been more

important for her to be there in case

something was misstated. I asked her to

leave the room.

So that the buyer would not be misled or

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misunderstand/that the buyers were not

getting legal advice from MS. Conn?

A. Yes. It can get confusing at a closing

who you represent.

Who was advising the buyers at the closing?

A. I would say nobody. And I am not going to

allege that it was Mr. Paplauskas, but the

only one in the room —— and I am not certain

if their Realtor was in the room, but it was

not us.

Why did the closing have to go forward that

day? Why not say to the buyers, go get your

lawyer and come back tomorrow?

A. It's not that easy because there are

moving trucks involved. There are a host of

reasons why you never want to do that just

from that.

You're locked into a rate, it's calculated?

A. There's a variety of reasons.

MR. PICCIRILLI: At this point, I

object. This is becoming highly speculative

as to what happened in this case. He was not

representing the buyer. Whatever happened

with the buyer, he was not in the room. This

is all speculative as to what might have



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happened or what did happen. Ask the

Majewskis when they came in here, don't ask

him.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Overruled.

This is an investigational hearing. We are

getting information about what went on and

what goes on.

Why not close the next day? Why not tell

them to go home and get a lawyer?

A. The Majewskis to get a lawyer? Because

now is'the lawyer that they get on that

lender's list an approved attorney? Do they

have to redo the documents?

There is normally a redrafting fee

of $250 to redraft documents for a different

date. It just sets off a series of

problems.


MR. VESPIA: I have a question.


Would it be fair for me to assume that you

brought this complaint, for the record, more

or less as a test case because you were

concerned with this type of conduct from a

notary public happening too often?



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II - May 9, 2017

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A. my concern is not so much Mr. Paplauskas,

as long as the question moves forward.

MR. VESPIA: That answers my

question. Thank you.

RE—EXAMINATION MS. MACIASZ DISANTO

I don't practice in the area of real estate,

so forgive me. Have you ever done a closing

where the buyer did not have an attorney

other than this one?

A. Did I represent that buyer?

Let's say you represented the seller; have

you done a closing where the buyer was

unrepresented?

A. I cannot think of an instance where that

would occur.

And in your experience, does the lender

normally provide the buyer with an attorney?

A. It depends. The buyer can ask for anybody

in the State of Rhode Island to do their

title, but certain lenders require approved

attorneys on the list to be the settlement

agent.

Let's say in a rare instance there was no

loan involved in theEreal estate transaction.

A. Okay.

Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946~5500115 Phenix Avenue, Cranston, RI 02920


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It is my understanding there would be far

fewer sort of documents to be executed?

A. Yes.

So the closing would be significantly

simpler?

A. Yes.

But in that instance, the buyer could hire

any attorney?

A. Or not. Usually they would because

somebody is going to issue the title policy.

Usually a cash deal is usually a more

sophisticated buyer, it is not their first

closing.

You could get anybody, yourself

included. Where you admit you don't do real

estate, under the rules of the State of Rhode

Island, you could write the title policy.

I see. Have you ever represented a buyer at

a closing where the seller did not have an

attorney?

A. Where the seller did not have an attorney?

That cah't really occur because then the

seller would be drafting their own deed.

Normally in that instance, we would probably

represent both sides of the transaction.



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In what circumstances would you represent

both sides?

A. If we were asked by both sides. If we

called you and said, you're purchasing a

property, who is your legal counsel on the

seller's side and he said, I don't have one,

we would say, do you want us to prepare the

document.

I assume there is some sort of informed

consent‘that goes on because you're

representing two parties?

A. No. Because it is A transactional base,

there is no disclosure like that. If there

becomes a problem, we step out and both sides

have to get their own attorney.

Do you think that it's impossible for a

closing to occur without both sides being

represented?

A. I don't think it's impossible, it's highly

unlikely.

You're not familiar with closings going

forward without both sides being represented

either by two attorneys or one attorney?

A. It depends on who the person is.

Personally, I am selling a piece of land at

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32

the'end of the month and I will represent

myself, so I don't have an attorney. It

depends on the buyer and the level of the

sophistication or the seller and the level of

sophistication.

RE — EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS

Mr. Pagliarini, would there be an occasion

for the seller to have a lawyer and the

lender to have a lawyer and the buyer to have

a lawyer?

A. There could be. Usually that is in the

instance that was raised where your family

member or friend wants you to write the title

policy, and you have that right in the Rhode

Island.

In a transaction, that's where the

money is, it's the title policy. The lender

may call me up and say, we want you to do the

closing, but she will do the title.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS : Okay . I

understand.

MR. BERGERON: Do you have any

questions, Janet?

MS . GILLIGAN : No .

MR. BERGERON: No more questions



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. ~ Vol. II - May 9, 2017

33

from the Committee. Mr. Piccirilli you are

free to cross—examine Mr. Pagliarini.

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. PICCIRILLI

Generally speaking, there are closings that

can be categorized in two types for

residential real estate; those involving

purchases and those not involving purchases?

A. You want to have a closing that does not

involve a purchase?

Yes.

A. Could you clarify?

You're a seasoned real estate attorney; have

you done a refi where there is no sale?

A. Yes.

You have done a refinance closing?

A. Yes.

Where there is no buyer?

A. That is correct.

No seller or no buyer?

A. That's correct.

Just a borrower and a lender?

A. Sure.

Have you taken a line of credit out on your

house?

A. Me?



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Yes.

A. I don't own a house.

Do you know anyone thét has gone to a bank

and taken a line of credit or home loan

against their house and have the loan

officers do all of the paperwork and explain

the documents and no attorneys are involved;

have you ever heard of that situation?

A. Okay.

Have you ever heard of that type of

situation, Mr. Pagliarini, in your l7 years

of practicing real estate law in the State of

Rhode Islahd?

A. The only kind that I would say where that

is accurate is in a HELOC, a second loan on a

house, that can be done in a bank's office.

Without an attorney present, correct?

A. Usually.

Is that practicing law?

A. In my opinion, yes.

So all of the banks that have been doing this

for decades, if not longer, that have loan

officers who prepare documents, or someone in

their back office prepares them, and they

explain the documents to the borrower, that's



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illegally practicing law, in your opinion?

A. Sure. Yes.

So you would want someone who gets a line of

credit against their house to be forced to

spend money on an attorney that they really

don't need to?

A. Yes.

Have you ever been involved in a commercial

real estate transaction?

A. Yes, Sir.

Isn't that typically where the lender does

have their own attorney that prepares and

represents the lender in the transaction?

A. Yes.

And the borrower and seller have their own

individual attorneys?

A. Yes.

But in most residential real estate

transactions, there is no separate attorney

between the lender and the borrower; isn't

that true in your experience?

A. Between the lender and the borrower, in

most cases that is correct. But going back

to the question that anybody can do a title

would make it a different situation.



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I'm not talking about anybody doing title,

Mr. Pagliarini. I'm talking about the

typical situation where a borrower is buying

real estate, goes to a bank, the bank tells

them, as they are required by 19—9—6, that

they have a right to their own title

attorney.

The bank can have their own

closing attorney. Most borrowers will have

the bank pick the closing attorney and the

title attorney, and there is only that one

attorney at the closing, correct?

A. Most of your statement is correct. I

don't know that most borrowers would just

pick off the bank's lender. So many times

they have their own attorney.

Do you have any relationships with any

mortgage lenders?

A. Sure.

And have you gotten real estate closings

through that mortgage lender where the

borrower lets the mortgage lender pick and

you happen to be the one that the mortgage

lender picks?

A. The mortgage lender does not pick. The

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mortgage lender gives them at least three

names and somebody is picked off of that. I

have been the recipient of that selection

process, yes, I have.

Your experience is they give at least three

names?

A. That's the way it should be done.

I'm not asking you if that's the way it

should be done. In your experience, do you

have any idea how the mortgage companies

present these attorneys to the buyer?

A. Usually there's a list. Certain lenders

have a list of attorneys and based on the

CFPB in October of 2015, those lists have

been peered down.

I can tell you that Washington

Trust has eight lawyers in the State of Rhode

Island on their list. It's a short list.

Again, are you familiar with 19—9—6?

A. I am not.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I Will have thiS

exhibit marked.

MR. BERGERON: Would you mark this

as Exhibit 11.

EXHIBIT ll MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II - May 9, 2017

Q. I will ask you to review that statute,

Mr. Pagliarini, that you do not seem to be

aware of, even though you claim to be

experienced in real estate law for the last

17 years.

A. Okay.

THE WITNESS: I would respectfully

ask that Attorney Piccirilli change his

'tone. I find it annoying.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I will not change

my tone, Mr. Pagliarini. You don't have the

right to tell me that.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I do. We

are all officers of the Court here. If we

could just keep it polite and respectful, it

would be much appreciated.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I have no respect

for this witness. And if you are going to

tell me to be polite, I will.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Mr.

Piccirilli, that is unnecessary. So if we

could proceed, please.

Tell me when you are done reviewing that

statute, Mr. Pagliarini.

A. Sure.



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(WITNESS PERUSES DOCUMENT)

MR. BERGERON: I would object to

Mr. Pagliarini giving official, legal opinion

as to the reading of a Statute. He may

express his understanding of it.

MR. PICCIRILLI: This witness

claims to be an experienced real estate

attorney, yet he does not know this statute,

which'is fundamental to what title companies

are obligated or mortgage companies are

obligated to advise their potential

borrowers.

He testified about his

understanding and his practice of how

mértgage companies have lists of approved

attorneys, et cetera. He clearly has some

knowledge of this. I am asking if he is

aware of this statute.

MR. BERGERON: Sure.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I believe he

answered you.

MR..PICCIRILLI: First he said no.

And now I am asking him to review it to see

if it reminds him of it.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: For the

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purpose of?

MR. PICCIRILLI: Refreshing his

recollection. If he does not recall it after

this, I don't see how he could be qualified

as a competent witness with regard to real

estate.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We have not

offered him here as an expert. We asked him

customarily questions about what he has done

and what went on.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Then I ask that

all testimony regarding what is customary in

the real estate practice in Rhode Island by

this witness~be stricken.

My assumption was that he was

testifying as someone with l7 years of

experience who has performed 150 closings a

‘year. That means he has some experience in

this area of practice.

If he doesn't know this statute,

then I would suggest that he doesn't have the

requisite experience in this state, and that

any testimony regarding what is customary and

regular practice regarding real estate

closings in Rhode Island by this witness be



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stricken.


Piccirilli, I'm going to ask you to move on

to something else. Please proceed with some

other line of questioning.

MR. PICCIRILLI: You're not

allowing me to ask him about’the statute?

THE WITNESS: If I may, I believe

this statute is the fact pattern that I gave

to the member that you have the right to

select your own title attorney in the State

of Rhode Island.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: He has

answered, so preceed.

And it has to be in writing?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We can all

read the statute.

Do you know whether the Majewskis were told

in writing as to whether or not they had the

right to a title attorney?

A. That's a form in the closing package that

the buyer's attorney customarily has signed

during the closing process.

I represented the seller. I would

be unknowledgeable or without knowledge if



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the Majewskis signed that document becauée

Mr. Paplauskas would have been in custody of

that document.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS:

Mr. Piccirilli, please move on to something

else.

Did you ever ask the Majewskis, when they

came out and said they were unsettled there

was not an attorney there, did you ever ask

them did the mortgage company advise you that

you have the right to your own title

attorney; did you tell them that?

A. I believe you will have the right to ask

the Majewskis that question. My recollection

is they thought there would be an attorney in

the room.

So the answer is no, you did not ask them

that question?

A. I don't know who wrote their title

insurance policy. It could have been an

attorney. All I know is that Mr. Paplauskas

officiated the closing and was not an

attorney. That doesn't mean he wrote the

title policy.

You already testified you were not present in



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the room when the closing commenced?

A. I did.

Did you have any communications regarding

this particular closing with anyone prior to

the date of closing?

A. Attorney Conn would have been in contact

with the lender to schedule the closing.

Would Attorney Conn, in that capacity, be

responsible for finding out things like Who

is going to do the closing for the buyer and

the borrower?

A. That would be a legitimate question. She

can answer that. I can't tell you whether or

not she recollects the answer to that, but

she is outside.

I am going to ask you, you said she came out

of the room and she was uncomfortable?

A. Yes.

Did you ask her at that time, didn't you

clear this with the lender first? Did they

tell you they were sending an attorney? Did

you find out when the funds would be

available? Did you find out who would be

coming and representing the mortgage company?

Did you ask her any of those questions when



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she came out and SAID she was uncomfortable?

A. No. She told me Mr. Paplauskas was not an

attorney.

Did you ask her any of those questions before

you filed your complaint on,August 5?

A. Irrelevant to me.

So the answer is no, you did not ask her?

A. That is correct, sir.

Let me see if I understand this. You're

representing a seller in a transaction?

A. Yes.

And it's not the practice of your office to

find out from the buyer or the buyer's

borrower when they are going to have the

funds for the seller?

A. When they ere going to have the funds for

the seller?

Yes.

A. We contact the lender or the lender

contacts us and says we are scheduling the

closing. Fine. Our office is available.

The buyer and the seller both live in the

Town of Tiverton. The closing is in

Tiverton. They came to our office.

At that point, I'm just the



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II - May 9, 2017

45

seller's attorney. The buyer's counsel is in

charge of the funding. My expectation is I

was going to get it that day.

Again, Mr. Pagliarini, you said you have been

doing this for quite a while. Isn't it your

experience that if you're representing the

seller, you want to know who the buyers

attorney is or who the bank's attorney is?

A. Yes, sir;

You would not generally agree to schedule a

closing unless you knew that in advance,

right?

A. I am the seller's attorney. I, in this

case, was told by the bank the closing is at

a certain date, time and location.

Whether or not they told Attorney

Conn it was Mr. Paplauskas who would be the

settlement agent, I can't answer that.

I'm talking about your practice. This is

your law office. Ms. Conn works for you, or

she did at the time?

A. She did at the time.

Ultimately it's your responsibility, Mr.

Pagliarini?

A. Yes, sir.



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46

And again, is it your practice to schedule a

closing if you don't know who the attorney is

going to be that's conducting the closing?

A. As I testified earlier, this is the first

time that a non—attorney showed up to do the

closing.

That is not my question, Mr. Pagliarini. my

question is before you even agree to schedule

a closing, wouldn‘t it be your practice to

know who the attorney is representing the

bank and the buyer?

A. On the other side of this transaction, I

believe Ms. Conn dealt with the lender

itself.

She apparently was comfortable scheduling the

closing without knowing whether there was an

attorney or not -— you have to let me finish

my question, Mr. Pagliarini, before you

answer. Ms. Conn apparently felt comfortable

scheduling this closing without knowing if

and who was going to be representing the

buyer and the borrower at this closing,

right?

A. We did not schedule this closing. The

lender scheduled the closing. We, as the



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47

seller's agent, showed up at our own office

and Mr. Paplauskas walked in with the

documents. It was a surprise to everybody

that he was not a Rhode Island licensed

attorney.

So you were not involved. You allowed

someone else to use your law office to

conduct a closing; do you normally do that?

A. Yes, sir. There are reasons we do that.

This goes back to my complaint where the

Consumer Finance Protection Bureau has

certain rules in place.

My copy machine is secure.

Mr. Paplauskas, and I am not intimating that

he could have, he could take this to the

local Staples and run this entire closing

package, including the buyer's application

with their entire credit history, through a

copy machine.

Mr. Pagliarini, if you don't stop

pontificating ——

A. I'm answering your question.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I ask the Chair

to direct him to answer the question and not

go on with this unresponsive pontificating.



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48


Piccirilli, please calm down.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I don't want to

have to come back here again. The witness is

being unresponsive to my question. I ask you

to answer my question.


Piccirilli, I find you are being combative.

This is an investigational hearing. Please

be respectful. We are all officers of the

Court.

Mr. Pagliarini, please continue.

THE WITNESS: Can the question be

read back, please.

(QUESTION READ BACK)

THE WITNESS: Yes.

How often do you do that?

A. If I may answer the question.

You just did.

A. I was directed to answer the question.

You answered it, and now I'm asking another

question.

A. My answer is yes.

How often do you do it?

A. I do it as often as needed.



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49

In the last year, how many times have you

done it?

A. I have no idea, sir.

A dozen times?

A. Sir, understand ~—

One time? Ten times? A hundred times?

MR. BERGERON: I ask that he be

allowed to answer the question.


Piccirilli, please allow him to answer.

Please do not talk over the witness, as the

stenographer is trying to take this down for

the record.

THE WITNESS: The rules have

changed. I can no longer —~ I should not go

to a Realtor's office and close. Their copy

machine is not secure.

I used to close at the public

library or town hall. We cannot do that

anymore because there is a memory chip in a

copy machine.

If another attorney calls me up

and says, John, I'm from North Providence and

I have a closing in Tiverton, can I use your

office, absolutely.



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50

If somebody calls and says, I'm

title counsel, you're the seller's attorney,

my office is in Providence, the récording is

in Little Compton, can we hold the closing at

your office, absolutely. That's the answer

to your question.

You didn't do that in this case.because you

just said if it was an attorney that you knew

or an attorney that called you and said, can

I do the closing at your office, you would

say okay. Apparently nobody did that in this

case, ask if there was going to be an

attorney, did they?~

A. We were told by the lender that the

closing would be on such—and—such a date and

such a time at my office. I don't know who

is going to show up.

Just because I deal with you as

the attorney doesn't mean that one of your

associates won't show up.

I will tell you, Mr. Pagliarini, I would be

really uncomfortable waiting to see who shows

up at my office for a closing without knowing

that in advance. You're not uncomfortable

with that?



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A. I don't believe that's what I said.

You just testified that you did not know who

was coming to your office, that anybody could

have walked in your office saying they

represented the title company and you would

not have any idea?

A. I will say yes, that's a possibility.

You wouldn't even know if they were licensed

to practice in Rhode Island; they could have

been an attorney in'Massachusetts that showed

up. Would you ask them for their bar card?

A. I would not.

That seems like a very secure scenario.

A. I object to that statement.

You never mentioned anything about insurance

in your complaint?

A. What type of insurance, sir.

You testified that your seller had to

maintain insurance for a few days after the

closing, but you didn't put that in the

complaint, did you?

A. No.

Is that correct?

A. I would have to reread the complaint.

Well, reread it.

51



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52

A. Okay. I do not see that fact, sir.

The first complaint you have is that

attorneys are required to maintain

malpractice insurance but notaries public are

not. Do you know whether Mr. Paplauskas had

insurance?

A. I do not.

If I told you that he did, would that

surprise you?

A. Is it malpractice?

If I told you that it was errors and

omissions insurance as a notary public, does

that surprise you?

A. That does not matter, it's not my

statement.

Number 2, you say, It's reasonable to ponder

what recourse the buyer may have against the

notary public should the buyer default on the

loan, securing the purchase property claiming

they were not properly informed or if the

notary failed to disclose if there was a

prepayment penalty.

Are you saying that only an

attorney can tell a buyer whether or not

there's a prepayment penalty and what the



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implications of that are?

A. I'm saying that there are many land mines

in a closing that the settlement agent could

walk into by not discussing with the

bdrrower, particularly on a refinance, as you

so aptly raised the issue, with the right of

rescission.

There are many issues that you

need to discuss so that you have a

well-informed buyer.

And aren't those usually performed by the

mortgage company?

A. I disagree with that. There are 60 to 100

pages of documents. Each page, we look at it

and we explain cursory to the borrower and we

answer any questions they may have at the

closing.

You are not the only one who can answer those

questions; can't a notary public answer THOSE

questions?

A. Absolutely not.

Are you familiar with 42—30—8 of the Rhode

Island General Laws; are you familiar with

the statute?

A. I did not memorize the entire general



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statutes, can you please be more specific as

to what that statute says?

MR. PICCIRILLI: I ask that be

marked as Exhibit 12.

MR. BERGERON: Mark this as

Exhibit 12, please.

EXHIBIT 12 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION


THE WITNESS: Okay.

You're a notary public, aren't you, Mr.

Pagliarini?

A. I am.

Doesn't this statute say that notaries public

have the power not only to explain what is

involved in a mortgage, but they can prepare

the documents; isn't that what this statute

says?


A. I don't see that. Where do you see that?

The promissory note, Mr. Pagliarini.

A. They can sign a pramissory note, but where

does it say that they can draft them?

Transact, do and finish all matters and

things related to promissory notes.

A. I would have to read the entire statute to



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find out what the definition sections are.

IS it your testimony, Mr. Pagliarini, that

you do not think anyone but an attorney in

the State of Rhode Island can explain what a

prepayment penalty is to a borrower?

A. As a settlement agent, I would say that a

notary public should not be doing that.

A notary public shouldn't, but if the statute

says they can, then you're wrong, right?

A. That's your interpretation of the statute,

sir.

Are you familiar with the standards of

conduct for notaries in the State of Rhode

Island?

A. I think the Secretary of State gave me the

little book at the time and I am sure I read

it 20 years ago.

MR. BERGERON: I totally would

object to Mr. Pagliarini being asked to

provide legal oonclusions with respect to the

various statutes. He can certainly reply as

to his familiarity with them, but to the

extent that he is being asked to render some

sort of legal opinion on these documents, I

don't think it's appropriate. I think that

55



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56

is the province of the Committee.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Can you

please explain the reasoning for the

questioning on.these statues?

MR. PICCIRILLI: I will ask

Mr. Pagliarini, since he is here to

pontificate his belief of what the practice

of law is, if he's aware of the standards of

conduct which the Secretary of State has

promulgated most recently in November of 2009

under Section 6 where it says, This section

does not preclude a notary public who is’duly

qualified, trained or experienced in a

particular industry or professional field

from selecting, drafting, completing or

advising on a document or certificate related

to a matter Within that industry or field.

Are you familiar with that, Mr. Pagliarini?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Hold on,

Mr. Piccirilli. There is an objection

pending. I believe you were the one who

elicited from Mr. Pagliarini an opinion as to

whether or not something was the practice of

law.

I understand that Mr. Pagliarini



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57

is the complainant and filed a complaint in

this matter. If you could just finish up

with this question and move on to something

else, please.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Does that mean he

can't answer the question?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: He can

answer this question on.whether or not he is

familiar with this provision.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I will ask that

this be marked as an exhibit.

MR. BERGERON: Could you mark this

as Exhibit 13, please.

EXHIBIT 13 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION

THE WITNESS: What section in

particular, sir?

MR. PICCIRILLI: Section 6, Page

10.


THE WITNESS: Reading Section A, A

non—attorney notary public should not assist

a non—attorney drafting, completing,

selecting or understanding a document or

transaction requiring a notarial act,

rendering legal advice or otherwise engage in



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58

the practice of law. Or is it Section B,

sir?

MR. PICCIRILLI: I said Section B,

and you know that. That was being snarky.

THE WITNESS: This section does

not preclude a notary publis who is duly

qualified, trained or experienced in a

particular industry or profession field from

selecting, drafting or advising on a document

or a certificate related to a matter within

that industry or field.

If someone is a notary who has been

practicing in the area of mortgage lending

for 30—some-odd years, almost 49 years,

almost as long as I have been alive, someone

who has been doing mortgages for that long,

you would say that they are duly qualified,

trained and experienced in mortgages,

wouldn't you?

A. Again, I am not in the position of

answering that question.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'll Withdraw the

question.

One last question. Did you refer to this

document from the Secretary of State's



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59

website? Did you refer to that before you

filed the complaint?

A. This document ——

My question is, did you refer to it before

you filed the complaint?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Allow the

witness to answer, please.

Yes or no.

A. No.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Thank you.

NUmber 3, Attorneys hold deeds in escrow

until they are recorded usually that day.

Attorneys do not hold deeds in any kind of

escrow, do they, in Rhode Island?

A. We do it all of the time, sir.

Don't you usually, at a closing, have the

buyer's attorney, or whoever is conducting

the closing for the buyer, get the deed from

the seller and say to the seller, we are not

going to disburse until this deed is recorded

because we have to run the title and make

sure there are no intervening liens or

anything on the title? Isn't that how it

usually happens?

A. By definition, it's held in escrow. And



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60

there are other things that are factored into

that. The attorney needs to know that the

funds are readily available before they

record.

You've never had a closing done,

Mr. Pagliarini, where the bank has not wired

the funds into whatever account they need to

be disbursed from and you had to wait for the

funds?

A. After the recording?

No, before the recording.

A. Yes. You wait and the deed is held in

escrow until. There are also times like this

where the seller signed the document a week

before that it is held in escrow.

Held in escrow by whom?

A. I held that deed in escrow. The minute I

handed it to Mr. Paplauskas, had he been

an attorney, it would have been held in

escrow until such time that.it was recorded.

And then the practice in Rhode Island is only

attorneys record those documents?

A. NO.

In fact, the practice in Rhode Island is that

attorneys usually do not record the



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - V01. II — May 9, 2017

61

documents?

A. That is probably accurate half of the

time.

At least half the time, if not more?

A. Yes.

You use title examiners, don't you?

A. Title examiner has nothing to do with the

recording.

Do you use a title examiner?

A. Sure.

Do you give the deed and mortgage to the

title examiner to record?

A. Absolutely not.

You're the only one who records?

A. The title examiner is not.the person who

does the recording.

Who does the recording in the office?

A. What office are we talking about; at the

time or my new office?

Either one.

A. It depends. I have two closings on

Thursday and I've been asked to do the

recordings myself because of proximity. If

not, we have an individual, who I'm sure has

been BCI checked, and who is the runner, if



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’797572'01 8 8:16 AM

William E. ?aplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II - May 9, 2017

62

you will; who goes to town hall and does what

he needs to do.

A non—attorney?

A. He is a non—attorney.

You entrust that deed and that mortgage to

that non-attorney to go record?

A. That person has a contractual relationship

with the firm, so yes.

Okay. Fair enough. There was a mortgage

company involved in this transaction, both a

mortgage company, JPMorgan Chase, and a title

company, ServiceLink, correct?

A. Correct.

They are both subject to oversight by the

Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, correct?

A. Presumably.

And so Number 4, you're concerned about the

oversight, there was oversight in this

transaction. Both the lender and the title

company had that oversight, correct?

A. To me that's a stretch. I'm not going to

say yes or no to that.

Isn't the CFPB primarily directed to mortgage

companies and title companies; isn't that the

primary purpose of the CFPB?



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A. Yes, sir.

So they have the oversight?

A. Yes.

And Mr. Paplauskas has a contractual

relationship with those entities, correct?

A. Presumably. I have not seen the contract.

Just like your title runner has a contractual

relationship, right?

A. It's not the same as you just described.

It sounds exactly the same to me.

A. Does it?

And I bet every single member of this

Committee who has a reasonably open mind will

agree it is exactly the same, Mr. Pagliarini.

And your refusal to acknowledge that

seriously undermines your credibility,

doesn't it, Mr. Pagliarini?

MR. BERGERON: I will obviously

object to that statement.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'll Withdraw

it.

Number 5, Closing attorneys are subject to

oversight by the CFPB in the Rhode Ieland

Supreme Court for negligence and malfeasance.

Is your title runner subject to oversight by



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64

the CFPB and the Supreme Court for negligence

and malfeasance?

A. No.

You said Mr. Paplauskas left the closing

without campleting the settlement statement,

as the settlement agent signature block is

left blank.

There is nothing under Rhode

Island law that requires a settlement

statement to be signed by anybody, is there?

A. By anybody?

Correct, under Rhode Island law.

A. As a practitioner for 17 years, which you

are going to go to next, I don't know the

answer to that, if there's a Rhode Island

Statute.

Anything governing the signing of the

settlement statement, or as they call it now,

a CD, there is no requirement, other than

what the Federal Government has under the

CFPB, right?

A. I would say it's more that while they have

regulatory over it, that it very well could

be the individual lender's control.

Let me ask you this, Mr. Pagliarini, a buyer



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65

and seller know each other. The seller has a

piece of land, no mortgage, only worth about

$10,000 or $20,000. He says to the buyer, do

you want to buy it, and the buyer says, sure.

The two of them sit down and draw

up a deed. They exchange the money, somebody

goes to record it. There is no settlement

Statement. Is that illegal in Rhode Island?

MR. BERGERON: I object to the

request for a legal opinion. Mr. Pagliarini

can respond with his understanding. And I

also object to answering hyfiotheticals that

are unconnected to ~—

MR. PICCIRILLI : I ' ll Withdraw the

question. I think I made my point. I would

ask this Committee that if they don't keep an

open and reasonable mind about these things,

to think about that real hard.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS : Mr .

Piccirilli, you can save any statement you

would like to make for later on, after the

case has been completed.

MR. BERGERON: Do you have any

further questions for Mr. Pagliarini?

The only people in your office at the time of



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this closing were you, Hailey Conn, a

Realtor, the buyers and Mr. Paplauskas; there

was no secretary in your office at the time?

A. No.

You don't have a secretary?

A. No, I did not.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I have nothing

further.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Does anyone

on the Committee have any follow—up questions

for Mr. Pagliarini?

MR. BERGERON: Now that

Mr. Pagliarini is leaving, do we agree that

he is free to leave and we have no further

questions?

MR. PICCIRILLI: I have no further

questions of him.



afternoon. If you could please identify

yourself for the record.

THE WITNESS: HAILEY MUNNS






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67

I'm Tdm Bergeron. As you know, I'm counsel

to the Committee and I will ask you a serieé

of questions. After that, members of the

Committee will get to ask you questions. And

Mr. Piccirilli, counsel for Mr. Paplauskas,

will be able to ask you questions.

A. Okay.


A. My date of birth is November 16, 1987.

And is munns your married name?

A. Correct, yes.

What name did you go by previously?

A. Hailey Conn.


A. Attorney.

When were you admitted to the Rhode Island

Bar?

A. 2013.

And have you been admitted to practice law in

any other state?

A. No.

Have you practiced in Rhode Island since

being first admitted?

A. Yes.

And have you been in private practice all of



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68

that time'?

A. Yes.

And are there any areas of law that you

practice in particular?

A. Real estate.

Can you describe for us the work that you do

in the real estate law world?

A. Sure. Mainly focused on residential

closings, transactions, buyers, sellers,

lenders, Realtors, whomever, in the closing

process.

Have you conducted closings yourself?

A. Yes, I have.

Have you conducted them —— what parties have

you conducted them on behalf of to a real

estate transaction?

A. Either the buyer, the seller or the

lender.

So you have represented all three of those

during closings?

A. Correct.

Could you estimate for the Committee, just

generally, how many closings you do a year?

Very generally is fine.

A. Very generally, I would say that's tough.



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How about per month?

A. Per month, we can say -— I would estimate

about 50.

And do you keep that up for most months of

the year?

A. I would say since September it would be

that amount. Previously it was a lot less.

And the complaint that we are here to discuss

today involves a real estate closing that

took place on July 21, 2015; do you recall

that closing?

A. Yes.

Where were you working at the time?

A. I was working with Attorney John

Pagliarini.

And what position did you hold in that office?

A. I was an associate attorney.

Were there any other associates that worked

at that firm?

A. No.

Were there any other attorneys, other than

you and Mr. Pagliarini, that worked at that

firm at that time?~

A. No.

And the complaint identifies a man named

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7O

William Paplauskas; have you met Mr.

Paplauskas before?

A. At that closing, yes.

And is Mr. Paplauskas present here today?

A. Yes.

Do you recognize him?

A. Yes.

MR. PICCIRILLI: It's not like

identifying a defendant in the criminal case.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Allow

Mr. Bergeron to prosecute his case, please.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Do you want to

put him in a lineup?

MR. STRACHMAN: He is thorough.

What party did you represent in that

transaction?

A. We represented the sellers.

And do you recall if anybody was representing

the buyers in that transaction?

A; I do not recall.

Are you familiar with a company called

ServiceLink?

A. Yes.

And what is ServiceLink?

A. I believe they are a company that, I


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think, a company that you use to provide

documents in a secure way, if I am

remembering correctly. I have used it very

few times.

And during this closing that we are talking

about, do you remember having contact with

aanody at ServiceLink?

A. For that particular closing, no, I don't

remember.

Do you not -— do you remember having contact

with them or do you not remember the contents

of your contact with them?

A. I don't remember contacting them for that

transaction in general. Yes, I have, but not

for that particular one. I don't know if I

did for them or notf

Would you be able to recall any of your

communications with ServiceLink prior to

closing that day?

A. No.

Do you remember discussing with ServiceLink

whether there would be an attorney present at

the closing that was about to take place?

A. No, I don't remember that.

What documents —— did you prepare any



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72

documents in anticipation of this closing?

A. Yes.

And what documents did you prepare?

A. When you represent the seller, you

typically draft a deed. And for Rhode

Island, there are residency affidavits.

Aside from that, it would just be regular

office, like, hold harmless agreements and

whatnot for a seller.

Do you recall whether you prepared a deed in

this case?

A. I believe I would have, yes.

This has previously been marked as Exhibit

1.

A. Okay.

And I will turn this to Page 152.

A. Okay.

If you could take a look at that.


A. Okay.


A. I do.

And what do you recognize it to be?

A. It's the deed I drafted for this closing.

Is there a second page to that?



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7 W201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. ~ V01. II ~ May 9, 2017

73

A. Yes, there is.

And is that your signature on the bottom of

the page?

A. Yes, it is.

And did you draft that document prior to the

closing?

A. Yes, I did.

And did you secure the signatures of the

sellers on that document prior to the

closing?

A. Yes, I did.

And what is the purpose of that document?

A. It is to transfer title from the sellers

to the buyers.

Because you represented the seller?

A. Correct.

Did you bring that document to the closing?

A. Yes.

And did you provide that document to Mr.

Paplauskas during the closing?

A. Yes.

At some point during the closing?

A. Yes. We needed to because we were told

that he was recording the documents.t

MR. PICCIRILLI: I Will Object as



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74

to we. That's hearsay. Who is the we that

told her he was recording?

MR. BERGERON: I'm moving on.


it.

I want to talk about the logistics of that

closing and your memory of it.

A. Okay.

Generally, where did the closing take place?

A. The closing took place at my office in

Tiverton.

Who was in the office that day?

A. It was myself and John. I know the

Realtor who was representing the sellers was

in attendance, and the buyers came to sign

their side of the documents as well.

Where within the office did the closing take

place?

A. Our conference room.

Were you present in the conference room at

the beginning of the closing?

A. I believe I was, yes.

Do you recall who was specifically in the

room at the beginning of the closing?

A. I don't. I could guess, but I know you



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II ~ May 9, 2017

75

don't want that.

We would prefer your recollection.

A. Right.

Was Mr. Pagliarini present in the room?

A. I'm really not sure.

Did you stay in that room, the closing room,

during the entirety of the closing?

A. No.

When did you exit the room?

A. As soon as I had done my side of what

needed to be done, I left.

And can you describe that for us; was that


A. Yes. I wasn't in the conference room for

too long. I either handed or finished

signing whatever needed to be signed by the

sellers and then excused myself.

And why did you exit the room? Do you

normally exit the room or do you usually stay

in the room?

A. There is not a need for an attorney

representing the sellers to stay if the

sellers are complete with their side of the

transaction. I left at that point.

Also, we knew the buyers were



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76

signing documents with a notary and we didn't

need to be in there in case any questions

arose.

At what point did you find out that Mr.

Paplauskas was a notary and not an attorney?

A. I think when he introduced himself.

And how did you react when he introduced

himself as a notary?

A. I think I just was unaware that a notary

would be conducting the closingr so maybe a

little surprised.

Had you ever experienced that before?

A. No.

And when he told you -— he introduced himself

as a notary, correct?

A. Correct.

And is that when you left the room?

A. I believe so.

What did do you after you left the room?

A. After I left the room, I spoke to the

listing agent, who technically is on the

seller's side, so we were discussing the rest

of the closing and whatnot and I went into my

own office.

Did you have any discussions with Mr.



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77

Pagliarini about Mr. Paplauskas being a

notary?

A. I think he mentioned some concern about a

notary discussing documents with the buyers,

but at that point, it wasn't our —— they were

not our clients and we could not do anything.

He also expressed concern about

handing over original documents to a notary

that would have to record just because there

is that step in between getting to town hall

and whatnot to put all of those documents on

record that we were uneasy with.

Did Mr. Pagliarini instruct you not to go

back into the room?

A. He did.

Where were you for the remainder of the

closing?

A. I believe in my own office.

Were you present in the closing when the

Majewskis realized that Mr. Paplauskas was a

notary?

A. I don't recall.

Did you witness the Majewskis signing any of

the closing documents?

A. I don't believe so.



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78

For any of that portion of time that you were

in the closing, which you said was at the

beginning, did you ever advise the Majewskis

on the meaning of any of the documents?

A. No.

Did you ever discuss with the Majewskis any

of their legal obligations?

A. NO.

What happened after the closing finished?

A. After the closing finished, I think we

discussed the time frame of when documents

would get recorded mainly because we wanted

to make sure it was happening in the same day

so our clients could receive their total

proceeds and the buyers would gain access to

the property.

Do you remember specifically what you were

told?

A. I don't.

After the closing ended, did you look at any

of the executed documents for any reason?

A. No.

And was it at that point that you gave

Mr. Paplauskas the deed, or had you already

given it to him at the end of the closing?



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79

A. I think we gave it after he finished with

the Majewskis.

Did Mr. Paplauskas leave your office with the

deed?

A. Yes.

After Mr. Paplauskas left the office, did you

have any more contact with him?

A. No.

Did you have any more involvement in the sale

of the property after that transaction?

A. No.

MR. BERGERON: Does the Committee

have any questions for Ms. Munns?

MS. GILLIGAN: I have a few

questions.


I am trying to be clear about the sequence of

how things happened that day.

A. Okay.

When the buyers came in, you then went into

the conference room to go and see what was

going to happen with the closing; is that

right? Or were you already there in the

room?

A. It's hard to recall back then. I do know



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I signed the deed definitely, and maybe

additional documents, with my clients ahead

of time. I don't remember if ~- I think

their Realtor had power of attorney, so

typically we will see if the others, the

lender, has any documents that need

counter—signatures by a seller.

At a minimum, you're sure that the sellers

had signed previously?

A. Yes.

Ahead of the closing?

A. Yes.

So you really didn't have too many documents

to sign or even if the Realtor signed with

the power of attorney that day, correct?

A. Correct.

It was pretty soon after you met the buyers

and Mr. Paplauskas that you discovered he was

not an attorney; is that correct?

A. Correct, yes.

And is that because he introduced himself as

a notary public at the outset or did you ask

him what his Status was, if you remember?

A. I'm sorry, I don't remember how it was

brought about.



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81

But at some point almost immediately, it

seems like you understood that Mr. Paplauskas

was not an attorney, correct?

A. Yes.

And at that point you told us you were

somewhat surprised to hear that?

A. Yes.

In fact, even though you were still a fairly

new attorney, at that point you had never run

into that situation before, correct?

A. Correct.

Because every other closing that you had

done, there had been an attorney on the other

side; is that right?

A. Yes.I

At that point, it's fair to say that you left

the conference room and went to consult with

Mr. Pagliarini; isn't that true?

A. Yes.

And you asked him, what should I do?

A. Sure.

There is no attorney here, what Should I do,

correct?

MR. PICCIRILLI: Madam Chair, I

don't know if it's appropriate for me to



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object to a Committee member's question, but

it is leading.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: This iS an

investigational hearing and I will allow it.

And it's your testimony today that Mr.

Pagliarini told you he did not want you to be

inside of the room for the rest of the

closing?

A. He definitely did tell me not to go back

in.

And the reason again was what?

A. So that we would not run into any issues

offering legal advice to clients that were

not ours. So we wouldn't be in a Situation

that we didn't believe what was supposed to

be happening. We thought they would have an

attorney on their end and we didn't know if

he would be offering legal advice as a

notary. We had no idea what could arise, so

it's best to remove yourself from the

situation.

And did you remove yourself? That's your

testimony; is that correct?

A. Yes.

And it's my understanding the Realtor also



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83

left the closing with you; is that right?

A. Yes.

The people left in the room were the buyers

and Mr. Paplauskas; is that correct?

A. Correct.

And you testified that you did not make any

observation or overhear anything regarding

them asking him about his status with them

that day, correct?

A. Correct.

.No discussion about why didn't they send an

attorney, why are you here, nothing to that

effect at all?

A. Not that I can recall.

MS. GILLIGAN: Thank you. I have

no further questions.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I have a

question.


Ms. Munns, you enter into the conference

room?

A. Yes.

And what do you do? Do you recall what your

role was or what your involvement was in the

room for the brief time that you were in



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84

there?

A. My involvement would just be to check that

all seller signatures were executed. And at

that point, I would have handed over the

executed documents that were needed on the

buyer's side. Then that would be it.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.

MR. BERGERON: No other questions

for the Committee. Mr. Piccirilli.


Is it Munns?

A. Yes, Munns.

How long have you been practicing law in

Rhode Island?

A. 3 1/2 years.

At the time of this closing, you had only

been practicing for about a year and a half?

A. Correct.

And Mr. Pagliarini testified that his office

did about 150 closing a year; did that seem

accurate to you back when you worked for him?

A. Yes.

About a dozen a month?

A. Sure.

At that point, maybe you had been involved in



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150 closings, at most?

A.-Sure.

Would you do all of the closings in his

office?

A. Not every single one, but the majority.

Had you ever represented a seller before?

A. Yes.

I'm talking about when you did this closing

in 2015?

A.'Yes.

How many times?

A. It's tough to say. That is‘really tough

to say.

More than a couple?

A. Yes.

And again, would it be your practice if you

were representing the seller to inquire of

the buyer or the buyer's mortgage company or

the Realtor as to who would be representing

the buyer?

A. Not necessarily.

Well, what would‘you want to know as the

seller's attorney? What would be the most

important thing that you would be looking to

find out in relation to a closing?



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A. We would need a copy of the title exam.

Isn't the most important thing trying to find

out when the client will get the money?

A. We have a set date on the purchase and

sales contract that we go by that.

Have you ever, as a seller's attorney,

provided the deed and other seller documents

to the buyer or the mortgage company prior to

the closing date if the seller is out of

town?

A. I wouldn't provide them to the buyer nor

the lender, really.

No?

A. No.

Have you ever been in a closing on a Friday

afternoon?

A. Yes.

And the client does not get his money on a

Friday afternoon, does he?

A. Correct. If it's not on record, right.

And it usually does not go on record if the

closing is Friday afternoon, right?

A. It depends on how early in the afternoon,

but sometimes no.

It is not unusual for a seller to have to

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87

wait a few days for their money after a

closing, right?

A. I would not say unusual. We try to do

everything we can to make it all happen in

the same day.

But sometimes that doesn't happen?

A. Correct. Sometimes it does not happen.

If a closing happens at three or four in the

afternoon, the town halls are closed by the

time you are done and there is no way you are

getting on record and no way you are

disbursing that day; is that correct?

A. Correct.

It happens not infrequently that sellers have

to wait at least a day for their money?

A. Sure, yes.

Do you know in this case how long the sellers

had to wait for their proceeds?

A. I don't.

When you left the room, did you inquire as to

when you would be expecting the funds for

your client?

A. Not when I left the room, no.

When did you inquire about when you would get

the funds?

Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—5500115.Phenix Avenue, Cranston, RI 02920


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88

A. I believe I asked once the buyers finished

signing their side and the closing was done,

on to the next portion.

Who did you ask?

A. Mr. Paplauskas.

What did he tell you?

A. I don't recall.

Prior to the closing, you had communications

with the lender for the title company for

this closing, correct?

A. I would need a refresher on who it was.

Okay. I will show you a document, Exhibit

10, Bates stamped 41.

A. Okay.

And this is Page 3 of 4 of an E—mail exchange

providedlby ServiceLink.

A. Okay.

And on Page 3 of 4, if you could go down to

NUmber 3, it says, From Hailey Conn,

Wednesday, July 1, 2015 to Renee Hancler,

subject, this property.

A. Yes.

And you wrote, is it correct that you wrote,

My office will be handling the seller side of

the above—referenced closing. Please forward



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89

the documents once obtained. Thank you.

Please let me know if there is anything else

or if you need anything from me at this

point. Look forward to working with you.

Best regards.

Does that refresh your

recollection that you initiated an E—mail

communication with ServiceLink?

A. Yes.

And at that time, what did you understand

ServiceLink's role to be in this closing?

A. It would have just been —— I don't know

who ServiceLink was. It would have just been

the contact that I was provided by, most

likely, the buyer's Realtor.

You got an E—mail back from, it looks like J.

Arricell. Sorry, that's not the one back.

Sorry, it's the one above that. Carolyn

Migliori, later on July 1 to you.

A. Okay.

Was that your E—mail, [email protected]?

A. Which one?

NUmber 28. They go in reverse order.

A. Yes, that's my E—mail.

And this E—mail says, Is this a split closing



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9O

with you issuing the owner's split policy or

are you just representing the seller?

A. Yes.

Did—you find that an unusual request?

A. Probably.

Sellers usually do not provide the title.

insurance policy for the buyers?

A. Right.

When you got that E-mail, did it raise a

question in your mind of what's going on

here?

A. NO.

You never E~mailed back and said, wait a

minute, who is the attorney representing the

buyer here?

A. No.

This is dated July 1; is that correct?

A. Yes.

And the closing happened on July 21; is that

correct?

A. I believe so.

Three weeks went by and in that three weeks,

you never once contacted ServiceLink or

anybody else and said, who is the attorney

representing the buyer?



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A. NO.

Is that your normal practice, Ms. Munns?

A. At that time, yes, I wbuld say.

Not anymore?

A. Not anymore.

Did you ever tell Mr. Pagliarini when you

walked out of the closing that you were

uncomfortable with what was going on in that

room?

A. I think I did.

You think you said the word uncomfortable?

A. I don't remember.

You said you prepared an internal document or

office document cal1ed a hold harmless

agreement?

A. Yes.

What is that?

A. That would be just a generic document

drafted by our office for us and the client

just if there is information you get from

third parties, that we would hold those third

parties accountable rather than our office,

something like that.

I don't remember specifically for

that office what it stated.



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You are in a practice now that does a lot of

real estate work?

A. Yes.

And the office that you are in now has a

similar type of document?

A. Yes.

And basically that document says, one part of

it, that there are real estate taxes that

have to be apportioned between the buyer and

seller; is that correct?

A. Yes.

And the information you got for those taxes

or other liens, water bills, sewer bills, is

based on the information given to you by the

city or town or water company; is that

correct?.

A. Correct.

And if that turns out to be wrong, it's not

your fault, don't sue me?

A. Yes.

And a lot of the time the seller's attorney

will prepare that?

A. They would for their own individual

clients. Actually, it is most likely on the

buyer's side, if it exists at all.



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93

And sometimes both sides would prepare it?

A. Sure.

I want to get what your normal practice is

with regard to your current real estate

practice.

A. Okay.

How many closings of residential real estate

involving a sale would you say that the

seller is represented by an attorney? What

percentage, 50 percent, more or less?

A. I would say more than 50 percent. I would

say actually about 75 percent would be.

So you're saying that the sellers come to a

closing with their own attorney?

A. Yes.

And that attorney prepares the deed and other

closing documents for the seller?

A. Yes.

In the 25 percent of the transactions where

the seller has no attorney, who prepares the

deed?

A. The buyer's attorney would.

And have you been in that situation where you

have prepared a deed for a seller?

A. Yes.



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And are you representing the seller when you

prepare that deed?

A. No.

If, for example, Mr. Pagliarini testified

that you were representing both the buyer and

seller when you prepare that deed, that would

be incorrect in your mind, correct?

A. That would be incorrect.

In fact, it would be unethical?

A. Yes.

In fact, you indicate to the seller

specifically when you prepare documents on

their behalf that you are not representing

them, that you are representing the buyer; is

that correct?

A. We actually ——

MR. BERGERON: Are we talking

hypothetically or with respect to this

particular case?

MR. PICCIRILLI: We are talking

generally what her practice is and what the

general practice in Rhode Island is with

regard to real estate closings.

I think it is very important that

this Committee understand that Mr. Pagliarini



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testified that if the seller is not

represented, and his office, as representing

the buyer prepares those documents, he is

representing both the seller and the buyer.

That is unethical in Rhode Island. You

cannot represent the seller.

In fact, the practice in Rhode

Island is you tell the seller, I don't

represent you, even though I'm preparing

these documents on your behalf.

In fact, you charge the seller, don't you,

for that drafting of the documents?

A. Yes.


Piccirilli, if you could please ask Ms. Munns

questions in regard to what she has

customarily done, that is fine. Other than

that, the practice in Rhode Island, I would

ask you to stay away from.

MR. PICCIRILLI : Okay.

Again, understand that the questions

regarding closings at this point are based

upon your experience and your practice, okay?

A. Yes.

Again, it's your testimony that if you



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prepare documents for sellers who are not

represented, you make it clear to them that

you are not representing them; is that

correct?

A. Yes.

Now, if you're representing —— strike that.

Who represents the buyer and who represents

the mortgage company in a closing?

A. When?

Do you represent —— in your office, who do

you generally represent?

A. If there is an attorney representing the

seller, then we say we represent the buyer.

If there is not an attorney on the seller's

end, we represent the lender. We are the

settlement agent.

So the buyer has no attorney in that case?

A. Correct.

It's your practice, if you conduct a closing

and there is no seller's attorney, neither

the seller nor the buyer have an attorney?

A. Correct.

Interesting. And you make that clear to both

the seller and the buyer at the closing?

A. That's probably up for question.

96



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Are you familiar with the requirement in

Rhode Island that a mortgage company advise a

prospective lender that they have the right

to their own title attorney?

A. Am I familiar with the practice?

The requirement, the legal requirement in

Rhode Island.

A. Yes.

You're aware that there is a statutory

requirement that the lender tell the buyer or

the borrower you have a right to your own

title attorney?

A. Yes.

In your practice do you normally see a

document that is prepared by the lender

advising the buyer of that right?

A. No.

It's usually done —— is it your practice or

your understanding that is usually done at

the loan application point and never gets to

the closigg attorney?

A. Right.

For example, in this case with the Majewskis,

if they had been advised by their lender of

their right under the title for their own

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title attorney, you would not necessarily

expect that document to have made its way to

Bill Paplauskas and your office at the

closing, you would not expect to see that

document, right?

A. It could be part of the closing documents

provided by the lender, but we would not have

seen that.

In your practice representing mortgage

companies in closings, how often do you see a

document from the mortgage company that you

ask the buyers to sign at the closing saying

you were told you had a right to your own

attorney?

A. You sign that every time. That's in every

closing package for Rhode Island.

And it's signed at the closing?

A. Yes.

Are you sure about that?

A. Yes.

Shouldn't,that be signed at the time of the

mortgage application, not at the time of the

closing?

A. Yes.

Why would it be signed at the closing and not



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at the mortgage application?

A. Perhaps to reiterate that you are either

using your chosen own title attorney or a

title attorney chosen by the lender.

It's a little late in the day'for that, isn't

it?

A. I guess so.

Is it just reiterating what they've already

agreed to in writing?

A. Most likely.

In your practice that you're in now —— by the

way, what is the name of the practice that

you're in now?

A. It's the Law Office of Michael Lima.

What is your law office's practice with

regard to recording; who does the physical

recording of closing documents?

A. We have two hired individuals who act as

our recorders.

Are they W—9 employees or 1099 independent

contractors, to your knowledge?

A. I don't know that.

You don't know?

A. No.

They are not attorneys, right?



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A. No.

No, they are not?

A. No, they are not.

Have you had any conversations with the

Majewskis about this complaint that has been

filed by your former employer?

A. No.

On the day of the closing, did you have any

conversations with the Majewskis?

A. I did not.


further.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Does anyone

on the Committee have any follow—up? Thank

you, Ms. Munns.


CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We will take

a quick break.

(OFF THE RECORD)

(RECESS TAKEN FROM 2:51 P.M. To 3:01 P.M.)

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We are back

on the record. Good afternoon, Mr. Majewski.

I'm going to ask you to please identify

yourself for the record.

THE WITNESS: Vincent Majewski.



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EXAMINATION BY MR. BERGERON

Mr. Majewski, I am Tom Bergeron and as I

think you know that I am counsel to the

Committee. I will ask you a series of

questions. After I'm done, members of this

Committee can ask you questions. After that,

Mr. Piccirilli, who is counsel for

Mr. Paplauskas, will get to ask you questions

as well.

A. Okay.


A. 8—12—70.

Did you graduate from high school?

A. Yes.

What high school did you graduate from?

A. Diamond Regional Vocational Technical High

School in Fall River.

And what year did you graduate from high

school?

A. 1988.

Do you have any further education after high

school?

A. Electrical Engineering, U—Mass Dartmouth.



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-And is that what type of degree?

A. Bachelor.

Do you have any education beyond that?

A. No.

Did you ever go to law school?

A. No.

Are you admitted to the bar anywhere?

A. No.


A. I'm a sales representative.

In what capacity?

A. A regional sales representative for a

company called Acull Polyurethane.

Do you have a territory?

A. Yes.

What is your territory?

A. Pretty much the East Coast.

And from ——

A. From Florida, up to Ohio.

So a large swath?

A. Yes.

Have you ever been engaged in the real estate

business?

A. No.

The complaint we are here to discuss involves



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a closing that took place on July 21, 2015;

do you recall that closing?

A. Yes.

Were you the buyer in that transaction?

A. Yes.

Where is that property located?

A. 528 Nanaquaket Road, Tiverton, Rhode

Island.

Is that your primary home?

A. We have remodeled the house, so we have

not moved back into it yet.

But you purchased it as a primary residence?

A. Yes.

And the complaint identifies a man named

Mr. Paplauskas; have you met Mr. Paplauskas

before?

A. At the closing.

I want to ask you about what took place prior

to the closing.

A. Okay.

Prior to the closing, did you have anybody

representing you?

A. No.

Did you take out a mortgage on the property?

A. Yes.

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And what bank did you use?

A. Chase.

And did you have any communications with

chase bank prior to the closing?

A. Yes. I gave them all of my information.

What do you recall those cammunications

being?

A. The painful steps of everything that they

need to know for verifying my incame and

getting a mortgage.

And prior to the closing, did you have any

contact with a business called ServiceLink?

A. No.

Do you recall whether during the pre—closing

mortgage process either the bank or

ServiceLink asked you to select an attorney

in any capacity?

A. The bank —— my original conversation when

I was going for the mortgage is I could get

an attorney or I could use —— they wou1d get

one for me. I remember that conversation.

I don't know if it was an attorney

or someone to help with the closing. That

was the conversation I had with the

representative from Chase.

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Where did you have this communication?

A. It was on a phone call and we E-mailed

back and forth and we were on a couple of

phone calls. I remember that because he was

in Cleveland, Ohio and I was going to be

heading to Cleveland, like, the following

month. I said I would use whoever the bank

would get for me.

What was your understanding of what you had

told the bank with respect to representation?

A. My understanding with Chase, and I have

done real estate transactions before in

Massachusetts with other properties that I

owned, another house, was that I was going to

have an attorney. That was my assumption at

that time.

And what communications or what was it that

caused you to conclude that?

A. I just thought that's how it was. I had

assumed I would have an attorney because I

have closed on properties in the past and

there was always an attorney involved.

Was this after you had spoken to the bank

about the mortgage process that you concluded

this?

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A. This was as we were getting closer to the

closing.

What were your expectations with regard to an

attorney going into the closing?

A. I just assumed that the bank would provide

an attorney.

Prior to the closing, did the bank or

ServiceLink ever indicate to you who would be

conducting the closing?

A. That, I don't know. I remember being

contacted by ServiceLink to set up a date and

time of the closing, but I don't remember any

other details of that.

At that point, when it was getting

to the closing, because it kept getting

pushed off, I don't remember any details of

that.

Do you recall whether prior to the closing

you reviewed any of the closing documents?

A. I did download everything that was

E—mailed to me from Chase, but I can't tell

you I went through them in detail.

I want to talk about the closing itself now.

A. Okay.

Where did the closing take place?

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107

A.’At the law office in Tiverton,

Pagliarini's law office, the seller's

attorney.

Where within the office did the closing take

place?

A. It is a small office, but straight in

there, past a little foyer, in a conference

room.

Do you recall who was in the conference room

at the beginning of the closing?

A. My Realtor was there.

Do you remember your Realtor's name?

A. Deb Robbins. She is also a friend,

personal friend, for 25 years. My wife and

I, when we originally got there, and then

Mr. Paplauskas showed up.

Was Mr. Pagliarini —— was Attorney Pagliarini

present in that room at the beginning of the

closing?

A. No.

At what point did you find out that

Mr. Paplauskas was a notary and not an

attorney?

A. Actually, it was after he introduced

himself. It was right at the beginning.



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Right at the beginning?

A. Yes.

How did you react?

A. I had no idea that that happened because

like I said, in other transactions, I had a

lawyer and I didn't have any issues. We just

wanted to close on the house.

Sure. This is what has already been marked

as Exhibit 4.

A. Okay.

I am showing you Exhibit 4.

A. Yes, he discussed that with us.


A. Absolutely.

What do you recognize it to be?

A. That he was not there to give legal

advice, he stated he was not an attorney.

Is that a document that he provided to you at


A. I do remember that coming up pretty quick.

Is that your signature on that document?

A. Yes, it is.

And do you recall whether Mr. Paplauskas said

anything to you at the time about that

document?

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A. I don't really recall the details of

that. Again, there was a lot going on with

the closing of this house.

I think at the same time I was

under the assumption that the sellers would

be there. And they could not make it, so we

were frustrated that we were not going to be

able to move into the house until four days

later, so it wasn't a closing. I do remember

that. He told me straight out he was a

notary.

Do you recall whether you reviewed the

document yourself at that time?

A. Yes, we looked at it, but I didn't think

it was a big deal.

What was your understanding of the document

at the time you signed it?

A. That, like it said, it is a'hold harmless

agreement that he is not an attorney. I

remember him saying he is not there to give

legal advice. It was just to do the closing.

To me, he was just a person facilitating the

closing.

Ana you signed it?

A. Yes.



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110

At the time, what did you think would happen

if you didn't sign the document?

A. That never even crossed my mind.

Now, was Ms. Munns, or Ms. Conn —~ there is

an attorney named Ms. Conn, Attorney Hailey

Conn, and her name is now Hailey MUnns; do

you recall Ms. Munns being part of that

closing?

A. Hailey was there. I know she came in and

out of the room.

Do you recall whether she was present at the

beginning of the closing?.

A. I don't remember that, I'm sorry.

That's’okay.

A. I remember being introduced to her when we

walked in and we were using the office to do

the closing and that was about it.

Do you recall if Ms. MUnns ever indicated to

you that she would not be taking part in the

closing?

A. I don't remember that at all.

You don't recall when she exited the room?

A. No. I remember there being some confusion

going on, as I thought about this. Again,

because they were not going to be there.

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111

They being the sellers?

A. The sellers were not going to be there and

we were trying to at least move stuff into

~ the house. I don't know if they were working

on some other document so that we could

actually put our personal property in the

house over the weekend.

Once the closing began, who presented the

closing documents to you?

A. I can remember he did.

Mr. Paplauskas?

A. Yes.

How did he present them to you? Did he

present them one at a time?

A. Yes, it was one at a time.

Did he read the title of the documents to

you?

A. Yes, he did. He went through all of the

documents pretty thoroughly, what we were

signing and what we were doing, if I remember

correctly.

Do you recall how he knew what each document

was?

A. I kind of had the understanding, being at

closings and signing your name a lot. That



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112

was all I remember. I was chomping at the

bit to get it done. I don't remember a lot

of it.

I remember being extremely

frustrated because the sellers were not at

the house. I remember the tone of that day.

My wife and I were upset that we are here and

we cannot move into the house. That's what I

remember the most.

Did you read every document that was put in

front of you?

A. Pretty much.

Did you read the whole thing; did you read

every word?

A. I skimmed it.

Do you recall whether Mr. Paplauskas gave you

any explanation as to the documents?

A. I don't know. I didn't really ask for

much explanation. He told me what each

document was as he handed them to me and why

I needed to sign them.

I didn't get the last part.

A. Why I needed to sign them. He let us know

what each document was, kind of like this

document. It's not like he didn't explain



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it. I remember him explaining stuff, but I

don't remember in how much detail.

Beifig at closings before, I knew

we had to sign things, I guess is what I was

trying to say.

I am handing you what has been previously


A. Okay.

Can you turn to Page l3?

A. Yes.

Do you recognize this document?

A. Kind of..

It's entitled All Terms Met?

A. Yes.


A. Yes, it is.

Did Mr. Paplauskas present this document to

you at the closing?

A. I believe he did, yes. Again, I don't

remember exactly, but I want to say that

Ernie and Nina, the sellers, were not there,

so I want to say this had to be taken for

them to sign.

Do you see your signature?

A. Yes. my wife and I signed it.



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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. ~ Vol. II

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

May 9, 2017

You signed it?

A. Yes.

Did you

A. Yes.

Did you

A. That

date it?

sign it on July 21, 2015?

was the date that I closed, yes.

Do you recall ever having any particular

discussion about this document?

A. I don't remember. I don't remember that.

Again, I go back to that whole point that we

were not able to close that day because the

sellers were not there.

Can you turn to Page 14?

A. Yes.

Actually, excuse me, Page 16.

A. Okay.

It is a document titled Borrower's

Identification Statement.

A. Yes.


A. Yes.

Did you sign that document?

A. Yes, I did.

Do you see your signature?

A. Yes, I do.

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Is that a document that Mr. Paplauskas

presented to you at the closing?

A. I believe so, yes.

Did you Sign it at that time?

A. Yes.

Do you remember any particular discussions

about that document?

A. I'm sorry, I do not.


A. Yes.

It is a document titled Error and

Omissions/Compliance Agreement; do you

recognize that document?

A. I do remember this document, yes. Only

because it says errors and omissions and it

kind of caught me. That's the only reason.


A. Yes.

Do you see your signature on that document?

A. Yes.



A. Yes.

Do you recall any discussion about that

document?

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A. Again, I remember that each page he handed

us, he did give us an overview of what it

was. He was trying to explain it to us, but

we were —- I had no issues with what he was

handing me and what he was doing.


A. Yes.

This is a document titled Mortgage; do you

recognize that document?

A. Yes, I do.

It spans from Pages 47 to 63?

A. Right.


A. I do remember initialling every one of

these pages, yes.

Is that your signature on that document, Page

63.

A. Sorry. Yes, that is my signature.

Did you date it?

A. Yes.

Did Mr. Paplauskas provide that document to

you at the closing?

A. Yes.

Did you sign it at the closing?

A. Yes.



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Do you remember any particular discussions

about the mortgage?

A. He did go through the details'of the

mortgage with the money and all of that, but

I had already kind of gone over this with the

guy on the phone from Chase, but yes.

I am handing you what has been previously


A. Okay.

Can you turn to Page 78 for me, please?

A. Yes,

It is a document titled Settlement Statement

HUD—l?

A. Yes.


A. I do.


A. Yes.

Is that your sighature on that page?

A. Yes, it is;



A. Yes. I remember this from the closing.

Did you sign it at that time?

A. Yes. We signed it there, yes.

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Do you specifically recall any discussions

regarding this document?

A. He explained all of this to us. It was

just kind of going over them; thé mortgage,

what our down payment was and what the

monthly bill would be. I remember that.

I don't remember many more

details, otherlthan that he did go through

the document with us.

Can you turn to Page 86, please?

A. Yes.

This is a document titled Truth and Lending

Disclosure Statement?

A. Yes.


A. I do.

'Can you turn to Page 87?

A. Yes..

aIt's a continuation of the same document.

A. Right.

On Page 87, is that your signature?

A. Yes.

Did you date it?

A. Yes.


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A. I do remember that, yes.

And did you sign it at that time?

A. Yes.

Please turn to Page 90.

A. Okay.

That's a document titled Note?

A. Yes.


A. I do, actually.

If you turn to Page 92, is that your

Signature?

A. Yes, it is.

And did you date that?

A. Yes, I did.



A. I remember that, yes.

And did you sign and date it at that time?

A. Yes, I did.

Do you recall any specific conversations

about that document?

A. No. I think at this point I was still

thinking about how much taxes were in

Tiverton, to be honest with you. Somewhere

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in the document I think I missed how much the

taxes would be on the house, and that's

nobody's fault but mine.


A. Okay.

It's a document titled Uniform Residential

Loan Application.

A. Yes.


A. Kind of, I do.

If you could turn to Page 95, do you see your

signature on that document?

A. Yes, I do.

And did you date that?

A. Yes, I did.

And was that a document presented to you at

the closing?

A. Yes.


A. Yes.

Do you remember any discussions about that?

A. On this one, I can't say I remember

discussions. I remember it getting explained

to me, but just not specifics.


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A. Okay.

This is a document titled Request for

Taxpayer Identification Information and

Certification?

A. Yes.

Do you recall that document?

A. Yes.

Is that your signature on that page?

A. It is.

Did you date it?

A. Yes.

Was that provided to you by Mr. Paplauskas at

the closing?

A. Yes. I thought that I was already sent

this from Chase one time before.


A. Yes.


A. Okay.

That document is titled Request for

Transcript of Tax Return?

A. Yes.


A. Yes.


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122

A. I did.

And that is your signature at the bottom?

A. Yes, it is.

Is that a document that was presented to you

by Mr. Paplauskas at the closing?

A. I thought for the transcript of the tax

return, I thought I had to do that sooner

with Chase, but I don't remember that one at

the closing. I didn't date it, obviously,

because it's typed in, but I remember signing

one of those and sending that to Chase way

back when for them to get my tax returns.

Page 108.

A. Okay.

That is a document titled Document Correction

Agreement?

A. Yes.


A. I definitely signed it and that is

definitely the date there, but honestly, I

don't really remember that one.

Page 111.

A. Okay.

That's a document title Acknowledgment of

Receipt of Appraisal/Evaluation.

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123

A. Yes.


A. Yes.

Did you date it?

A. Yes.

Is that a document that was presented to you?

A. I remember that because it was about the

appraisal.

Did Mr. Paplauskas present that to you?

A. I believe he did, yes. Yes, he did.


A. Yes.

Page 117.

A. Okay.

This is a document titled Notice of

Nonrefundability of Loan Fees.

A. Yes.


A. I do.


A. Yes.

Did you date it?

A. Yes.


provided to you at the closing?



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A. Yes.

Do you recall any discussions regarding that

document?

A. Again, like I said, I remember each

document he handed to me he explained to me.

Other than that, no, not specific to this. I

remember the nonrefundability term. That's

what sticks out in hy mind.

Page 118.

A. Okay.

This is a document titled Mortgage Commitment

Letter?

A. Yes.


A. I remember getting this from Chase, yes.

Is that your initial?

A. Yes.

And‘if you could go to page 120, the final

page.

A. Okay.

Is that your signature?

A. Yes, it is.

Did you date it?

124



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A. Yes, I did.

Is that a document that was provided to you

Mr. Paplauskas?

A. Yes, it was. I had already seen this

document because Chase sent this to me.

You saw this ahead of the closing?

A. Yes.

And it was presented to you again at the

closing?

A. I remember seeing it. This is ringing a

bell that I‘saw this from Chase Bank. I

remember signing it at the closing. At this

point, we are getting close to the end of

signatures.

Page 125.

A. Okay.

This is a document titled Initial Escrow

Account Disclosure Statement.

A. Yes.


A. I do.

Is that your initial at the bottom?

A. Yes, it is.




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W018MWWilliam E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II — May 9, 2017

A. Yes. Part of that being this is the

property flax, yes. This sticks out in my

head, yes.

Do you recall any particular discussions with

respect to this document or the taxes

contained in it?

A. No. I was already fuming at this point,

but We were'good. Not for anything else,

just the taxes.

Page 126.

A. Okay.

It is titled Tax Information Sheet.

?A. Yes.

Is that your initial?

A. Yes, it is.

Is that a document that was presented to you?


Did you initial it at that time?

A. Those are my initials, yes.

The last one is Page 152.

A. Okay.

That is a document titled Warranty Deed?

A. Yes.

And it spans two pages?

A. Yes.

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9/5/201 8 MWWilliam E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II ~ May 9, 2017

127

Do you recognize that document generally?

A. Yes.

And what do you recognize it be as?

A. A deed to my property.

Do you see your signature anywhere on that

document?

A. That's what I was looking for.

MR. PICCIRILLI: The buyer does

not sign a deed.

MR. BERGERON: I understand the

state of the law.

I'm just asking whether you were required to

sign it?

A. No, I didn't sign it. I don't remember,

other than just looking at it.

So you don't see your signature on there?

A. No.

Is that a document that you saw at the

closing?

A. Yes. I remember seeing this at the

closing. I am almost positive I did.

Do you recall when?

A. I brought this up on—line.

I am just asking you if you reviewed this

document at the closing?



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A. Honestly, I don't remember. I honestly

don't remember.

That's fine.

A. Maybe I needed —— he might have shown it

to me, but they needed to sign it because

they were not at the closing.

But this was a document -— you were not asked

to sign that document?

A. No.

And do you remember any discussions during

that time about the deed?

A. At this point, I think I was frustrated

that we could not close because they weren't

there.

Now that we have gone through the documents,

do you have any specific recollections of

instances where you discussed the details of

any of those documents; has it brought up any

specific recollections?

A. No. There was nothing that stuck out that

was sore to me or caused me an issue.

What happened after the closing finished?

A. There was some conversation of whether or

not we could get into the house. And I think

that's when either we had a conversation with


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the seller, the seller's representative.

Who was that?

A. John. I am trying to remember the day.

We were trying to figure out for insurance

purposes and everything else of us being able

to leave the attorney's office and go to our

house.

I doh't remember exactly what it

was, but I thought there was something else

that needed to be signed, holding Ernie and

Nina —— like if we screwed something up, it

would be our fault. It was different because

he let mevknow straight-away because of

health issues they could not be there.

Who let you know that?

A. Him. We knew as soon as we got there we

would not close because the sellers could not

be there.

After the documents were signed —-

A. No, it was before the documents were

signed. We were told we could not close.

After all of the documents were physically

signed and everybody stood up, what happened?

A. The conversation was what do we do to be

able to get into the house.

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Ana who was that conversation with?

A. I think at that point in time —— I am

trying to remember exactly who we had the

conversation with. We might have —~ I don't

remember exactly who we staited the

Conversation with to make that happen.

I can remember Mr. Pagliarini

being part of the conversation, but that was

after. He kind of —— they had to get in

touch with the sellers to figure out if it

was okay if we could get into the houSe.

That's what was transpiring at that time.

And you did not take or did you take

immediate possession of the property?

A. We did move stuff in.

Right after?

A. Right after the closing.

Did you ultimately come into full ownership

of the property?

A. Yes.

And I was going to ask you do you live there

now, but you said you are going to move in?

A. We lived there for —— it was a few days

after the closing before we moved in, by the

time the paperwork came back and legally they


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no longer owned the house. We moved in right

after that. Then we moved back out in May of

2016.

MR. BERGERON: Do any Committee

members have questions for Mr. Majewski?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I do.


Mr. Majewski, as these documents were being

presented to you, I believe yofi testified you

were given pretty much an overview of each

document as it was presented to you?

A. Yes.

Is it fair to say he is not reading the

documents in their entirety verbatim and

asking you to sign, he gave you an overview

or paraphrased each document?

A. I remember him going over the documents.

I want to say it was not verbatim because

same are lengthy. I remember skimming them

and talking about them.

I can't tell you 100 percent

whether or not he went over every sentence'or

not.

I believe you stated that you were advised of

what your monthly payment would be; were you



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advised specifics of what your mortgage

obligation was?

A. Yes. I had already knOWn that before, but

signing the name to the paper.

But Mr. Paplauskas went over that with you?

A. I remember him discussing the line items

on that page.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I have no

further questions.

MR. VESPIA: One question.


With respect to each document that was

presented to you that you signed, did you

have any questions as to the content of the

document? I understand that when it was

presented to you, you were given an overview?

A. Yes.

But did you have any specification questions

as to the content of any one of the

documents?

A. I don't remember having any Specific

questions. It's not the first house I closed

on.

You have closed before, right?

A. Yes.



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133

MR. VESPIA: Thank you. I'm all

set.

MS. MACIASZ DISANTO: I have a

question.

EXAMINATION BY MS MACIASZ DISANTO

I'm just a little confused. You said the

closing was not able to happen and it was

your understanding that's because the sellers

were not present?

A. Whatever happened, I remember Ernie had

some heart trouble and he was in and out of

the doctor's office. We were trying to get

it closed before he was going for an

operation. I do remember that.

And that day, we were assuming ——

because we worked around their schedule to

close when they could be there, I was

expecting to see them when we went into the

office.

But the sellers were not present?

A. They were not present.

But you didn't think the closing was

finalized because they were not there to

receive the purchase proceeds in person; is

that why? I am confused.


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A. If I remember correctly, they needed to

sign. I thought they still needed to sign

the deeds or something like that. They still

needed to sign so the transaction would

happen. I remember the conversation that my

Realtor was getting rejected.

MS. MACIASZ DISANTO: Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: One other

question.

RE—EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS

Did anyone discuss with you that perhaps

there was a power of attorney for allowing

the closing to proceed in their absence; does

that sound familiar?

A. I do remember someone talking about power

of attorney, but for some reason the closing

was held up.

And you think it was because they were not

physically present?

A. Right. We had to hold off. This is the

21st, which was a Friday, if I remember

correctly, because it was the weekend. I

would have to look back.

Is it possible it could have been for another

reason?

134



9/5/201 8 8:49 AM


O 135

;

y, i

l A. I thought it was because they were not

2 able to attend. I remember them talking

3 about a power of attorney and I thought there

4 was another holdup. If I'm remembering

5 correctly, it was because they were not there

6 because I was expecting to see them there.

'7MS. MACIASZ DISANTO: Just one

8 more question.

9 RE—EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO.

10 Q. Was there a Realtor present, the seller's

ll Realtor?

. 12 A. Yes.

g‘):13 Q. And your Realtor was present as well?

14 A. Yes, that's right. Jane, I think, was her

15 name.

16 Q. Was the seller's Realtor's name?

17 A. Yes.

18 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS

19 Q. When you say present you mean there for the

20 day or throughout the closing?

21 A. I can't remember if she was there for theé

22 whole closing, but I remember her being there‘

23 because she was trying to —— I remember

. 24 talking to her about being frustrated. Ernie5

K15 25 had a lot of'stuff to move out. Because he



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was not well, I made arrangements to move it

myself, so I was having conversations with

Jane at that point.

MS. GILLIGAN: I have a question.


You were not able to move in fully until the

following Monday; is that correct?

A. It was the following week; I don't think

it was Monday. It was not Monday. It was a

few days after.

If I said to you that July 21, 2015 was a

Tuesday, does that refresh your recollection

at all?

A. Was it a Tuesday?

Yes.

A. I will assume that you are correct because

you looked at your calendar. Why do I

remember this being a Friday? If that was a

Tuesday, maybe we did not get the final

documents. Something happened that we were

not able to get in the house.

One of the problems was I was

trying to surprise my dad that week, having

him come over, and we did not own the house

yet. That's what is sticking in my head.,

136



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One of the documents that Mr. Bergeron had

you look at, which is the warranty deed,

which is on Pages 152 and 153 of our exhibit

packet, it shows it was received by the Town

of Tiverton on July 27, 2015, which would be

the following Monday.

A. Which makes more sense because over the

weekend, we could not move into the house.

And were you able to move in,~perhaps, even

Tuesday the 28th?

A. We had already put stuff in the house.

But to fully move in, and, as you said

earlier, take possession?

A. Correct. And now I remember rolling up a

couple of nasty rugs to get the smell out of

the house so we could maybe sleep in the

house. At that point, we were sleeping in

hotels.

MS. GILLIGAN: Thank you.

MR. STRACHMAN: I have a question.


How long did this whole process go from the

beginning when you first met Mr. Paplauskas,

until the time you left?

A. At the signing of all of this?

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138

Q. Yes.

A. A couple of hours, maybe. I don't

remember it being a long time. I don't

really know.

Q. You think a couple of hours?

A. Maybe less than that. I don't remember 1t

being super long.

Q. And during that time, Mr. Paplauskas told us,

I think this is right, that he walked you

through the documents, his words?

A. I heard him saying that he did go through

the documents.

Q. And he explained the documents to you?

A. I don't remember in detail, but I remember

him going over each document.

Q. And your wife was there with you?

A. Yes.

Q. And if you and your wife had any questions,

did he answer any questions for you that day?

A. I don't remember us having many questions.

I don't remember.

Q. Did you have discussions about any of the

documents?

A. I remember cracking a couple of jokes, but

I‘don't remember any discussions.



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And do you know what kind of deed that you

received?

A. So that also came later. What do you mean

by what kind of deed.

Was it a warranty deed, a bargaining sale

deed?

A. I just remember it being a deed.

A quit claim deed?

A. I just remember it being a deed.

You didn't know what kind of deed you received?

A. I just thought it was a deed for the

property.

And was there anybody who explained to you

the different kinds of deeds?

A. I don't remember that.

Did anybody explain to you what your

obligations were under the mortgage, the

promissory note or any of the other documents

that you signed?

A. I remember obligations, money owed, that

kind of stuff, going through that, yes.

Did you discuss that with Mr. Paplauskas?

A. Again, I don't remember exactly.

Virtually all of the documents that you

testified that you saw and that you signed

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r 140

that day are documents that you saw for the

first time that day?

A. Some of the documents, I remember seeing

them E—mailed to me from Chase.

What were those?

A. The breakout of the money, I remember

seeing that from Chase. I thought there were

a couple of other documents that Chase had

already E—mailed me.

Would you say those were the financial

documents?

A. Most of the financial stuff.

Legal documents you got that day?

A. Yes.

Like the mortgage, the promissory note?

A. Yes.

The representations?

A. Yes.

And the indemnification and the documents

describing your rights and obligations?

A. I read them that day, yes.

And do you know when this closing ended?

A. Again, clarifying that the let was a

Tuesday, I remember them fully closing on the

house or getting the ability to say it is my



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141

house the following week.

So you left that day, that Tuesday, and it

was your understanding that the closing was

not complete?

A. Correct. There was something else that I

have not seen yet today that we did with

Ernie and Nina to make them feel comfortable

that we could move into the house.

Did anyone tell you when —— let's say at the

end of that one or two—hour period you were

there, who told you when this thing was going

to end?

A. Again, there was a conversation about it.

I don't remember who. And I could have sworn

it was because of health issues on Ernie's

part.

I didn't ask you why.

A. Right, but I don't remember who said to me

when it would end.

You went to a closing and it didn't end?

A. Right.

You didn't walk out with a check?

A. Correct. I was not getting a check.

Or the keys?

A. Right.



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Your end was the keys and deed and you didn't

get that?.

A. That's right.

And you didn't get that until six days later?

A. Correct.

And you walked out not knowing what day you

were going to get those items, right?

A. I am having a small recollection of it is

going to take this much time, but I don't

remember who would have said that.

None of the documents that you signed said

this closing is going to end on that Tuesday,

or whatever day it was, and you'll be able to

get in and get the keys that day?

A. No.

And you didn't take the keys that day when

you left, did you?

A. Correct.

When did you pick up the keys?

A. We were already in the house, but when we

became responsible for the house was, I would

say, the following week. I remember now that

she said the date, being that was a Tuesday.

I just asked about the keys; when did you get

keys to the house?



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A. At least a week after the closing.

You didn't have a set of keys for a week

after that day?

A. If you want to say physical keys, I got

physical keys that day.

You did get keys?

A. Yes.

What didn't you get until a week later?

A. I didn't get the paperwork saying this is

my house.

And did you insure the house or did you get

homeowner's insurance?

A. Not until it picked up on —— there was

something given to me, and I have not seen it

here, that stated that Ernie and Nina would

not be responsible if we screwed something up

in the house while we were there.

When did your homeowner's insurance begin to

run?

A. I assume that day because I told my

insurance agent that.

When did it start to run?

A. I couldn't tell you the exact date.

Was it sometime after that?

A. It would have been after I would have

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144

received the paperwork. I remember telling

my insurance agent, because we needed

insurance on the house to do the closing.

You came to the closing expecting to have a

lawyer there?

A. Originally, when I was dealing with Chase,

and because I have done closings in the past

in Massachusetts and the banks I dealt with

then, it was always an attorney.

That is not what I asked you. Did ——

A. I assumed there would be an attorney here

as well.

When you walked into Pagliarini's office, you

expected there would be Mr. Attorney there

saying, I am your attorney representing you?

A. Yes, I did. I remember ServiceLink

setting up an appointment for the closing

because Chase used ServiceLink. At that

point, I still thought it was an attorney.

And you came and there was no attorney?

A. Correct.

And instead there was a notary?

A. Which for me, I didn't have a problem with

that. I didn't see it to be a problem.




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MR. BERGERON: Any other questions

from the Committee?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: I think I'm

all set. Thank you.

MS. MACIASZ DISANTO: I have one

question.

FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MS. MACIASZ DISANTO

You said you've closed on properties before?

A. Yes.

And they were always in Massachusetts?

A. Yes.

Have you ever hired your own attorney?

A. No.

Let's go back. So before you closed on this

property, you had purchased and closed on

other properties?

A. Correct.

And they had all been outside of Rhode Island?

A. Correct.

And at any of those other transactions, have

you ever hired an attorney on your own?

A. No.

The lender has always provided an attorney

for the closing?

A. The‘ banks I dealt with, yes.



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And your ——

A. To clarify, I closed on a few preperties

and I used the same bank.

You used Chase?

A. In Massachusetts, I used the same bank

three times.

A Chase branch?

A. No, nothing to do with a branch. In

Massachusetts, the bank I used at the time,

it was the same bank and I had the same

lawyer each time from that bank.

From that bank?

A. Yes.

What was your understanding as to who that

lawyer represented; did they represent you or

the lender?

A. I thought it was both of us. They are

there to explain things and to take care of

the closing.

MS. MACIASZ DISANTO: Thank you.

MR. BERGERON: Mr. Piccirilli.


Is it Majewski?

A. Yes.

Mr. Majewski, when this attorney that you



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used, you said, on three prior occasions or

for three properties you bought prior to the

property ——

A. Yes.

Did he explain the difference between a

warranty deed and bargain and sale deed and a

quitclaim deed?

A. No, I don't remember that.

Why did you not use an attorney in this case

in this closing?

A. my original conversation with Chase was

they said they could handle it.

Did they specifically tell you that an

attorney was going to be present on their

behalf at the closing?

A. I don't remember them specifically saying

an attorney.

Did you ever ask them the name of the person

who was going to be at this closing that you

were going to meet?

A. No, I didn't.

When you bought your other properties, how

did you find out who the attorney was going

to be that represented you at the closing?

A. Each time —— the first one was in 1995,



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but each time it was meeting them at the

bank. Actually, the law office called me to

set up the closing.

In this case, who called you to tell you

about the place of this closing, the date,

time and place of this closing?

A. I remember the company ServiceLink.

When they called you and told you where it

would be and it would be at a law office, did

you assume that that law office you were

going to would be representing you?

A. I honestly assumed it was a lawyer, not

necessarily that law office, but yes.

But you never asked the name of who the

lawyer would be?

A. No.

You had to a bring a lot of money to this

closing, right?

A. Yes.

$127,190?

A. That sounds about right.

Who told you you had to bring that amount of

money to the closing?

A. That was from my dealings with the guy at

Chase.

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149

And did he tell you how you needed to bring

the proceeds to the closing, by certified

check or wire; how did you get that much

money to the closing?

A. I had that money in the bank, so I don't

remember the details of that exactly. I just

knew I needed to have that money.

Did you bring the check to the closing? We

are not talking $10,000, we are talking

$127,000?

A. Mind you, at this time I was in fourteen

different hotels, traveling through three

different states to close on this property,

so-there was a_lot going on prior to this

closing, which is why I was so frustrated

that day, knowing I would not be moving into

the house.

I remember the money, but I don't

remember if I wired the money or if I brought

a check. I don't remember.

Other properties, I remember going

to the bank, getting a cashier's check and

walking in with the cashier's check.

Where were you living immediately prior to

buying this house?



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A. I was in hotels fourteen days prior to

buying that house. I moved out of my

property ——

Let me —- I don't mean to cut you off, but I

want to be clear. When did you first see

this property for sale?

A. A couple of months before we closed on it.

How did it come to your attention?

A. I found it on Redfin.

How did you come to pick the real estate

agent Deb Robbins.

A. Deb Robbins and I have been friends for 25

years. She has businesses and is a broker

and Realtor. And I called on a house and

then I called Deb and Deb set ufi the

appointment for us to see it.

Is Deb a Rhode Island Realtor?

A. Yes.

Is she also a Massachusetts Realtor?

A. She also helped me with three other

properties prior to this one.

At any time you had a discussion with her

about this property, did you have a

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conversation with her about whether or not

you should hire a Rhode Island attorney to

help you with it?

A. No. It never even crossed my mind.

Why not? This is a pretty big investment.

A. It did not cross my mind. After home

inspection and closing on properties before,

it never crossed my mind.

You do specifically remember Chase telling

you that you had the right to pick your own

attorney?

A. I remember them saying I could get an

attorney or they could take care of it, I do

remember that.

Now, was it your intention to buy this house

as your primary residence?

A. It was my intention. It was not my

intention to knock it down.

You said you were living somewhere and that

you had to be out at a certain time?

A. Yes. We had to be out by July 3, out of

our apartment in Boston.

Did you explain that to your Realtor when

they were preparing the P&S agreement, that

you had to close by a certain date?

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A. I was trying not to push the closing

because I knew the seller waé having a lot of

health problems. We said we wanted to try to

be in at the beginning of July and that did

not happen.

For whatever reasons, the timing

between Chase and the documents, and some of

this was my fault, not my fault, but the time

frame of Chase getting everything ready to

close. I remember calling Trevor at Chase,

like, can we get this closing happening.

You said at some point you knew the property

would not close on the date you had to move

out of where you were living?

A. Yes.

How much time before that did you know? Was

it the day before or a week before or two

weeks before?

A. I knew when we moved out of Boston we

would not close on the house and be able to

move from Boston to the house. I knew we

would be in hotels. Because of work travel,

I planned a bunch of work travel so the

company would pay for my stay.

At that point, you didn't think you needed to



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consultant an attorney to advise you as to.

what your rights were with regard to the fact

that there was a delay in the closing?

A. No.

You talk about the seller Ernie, did you know

him beforehand?

A. He worked for the naval base. He was a

naval captain. I had a lot of respect for

him. I met him for the first time when we

were checking out the house.

It was one of those things. He

was not feeling well and he had stuff to get

rid of. I said, Ernie, don't worry about

it, I'll take care of it.

Now, with regard to the financial documents

for the closing, how much money you had to

bring, how much your mortgage payment was

going to be, how much the taxes were going to

be, you were explained all of that prior to

the closing by the bank, right?

A. Absolutely. I just had rose—colored

glasses on the tax rate of Tiverton. That

was my joke earlier.

They told you what the payment would be and

that included the taxes?



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Correct.

A. No. I don't remember.

I noticed you talking with Mr. Pagliarini out

in the hallway.

A. I hired John after all this was done

because a mbnth after this, I had an issue

with my current employer, or my previous

employer, and I wanted him to look at a

document for me.

Do you recall approximately when it was that.

you hired him?

A. It had to have been around September or

October, maybe. It was close to the end of

the year because my company was being sold,

so it was around that time frame.

Why did you pick Mr. Pagliarini?

A. Because we were at his office and he

seemed like a nice guy. He drove a Jeep.

Did you know that he had filed this complaint

that brought us here today before you met

with him?

A. I had no idea about that.

Has he ever explained that or told you about

that since he represented you?

A. This legal document, it was more like he

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A. Absolutely.

You said you moved into the property some

days after the date that you were physically

at the law office signing the documents; is

that correct?

A. We went from the law office —— and this is

something I have not seen here. There was a

discussion between the seller's Realtor, my

Realtor and us about us being able to move

into the house and bringing stuff to the

house, doing laundry and sleeping there.

There was something else I signed saying I

would be responsible for living there for a

timevframe.

Was that something that was prepared by

Mr. Pagliarini's office?

A. I don't remember where that came from. I

remember that —— I swear I think the Realtor

came back. We left there and went to the

house after the law office. I remember

that. And Janney came by, which is the

seller's Realtor.

Did you have any communications with anyone

at the law office after you left on the let?A. When we were done?

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read through it and gave me a synopsis, this

is my feeling of this document. And that's

all I really remember.

It was not a lengthy engagement that you had

with him?

A. No, nothing like that.

MR. BERGERON: Can I just clarify,

are you asking about the complaint filed?

MR. PICCIRILLI: I'm asking about

the work he performed for him concerning the

review of the employment.

MR. BERGERON: You‘re asking about

the work he performed for him?

MR. PICCIRILLI: The review of the

employment problem.

THE WITNESS: Yes. It was closer

to the end of the year and the colder

months. It was something real quick.

Since the fall of 2015, have you had any

communication with Mr. Pagliarini before you

saw him here today?

A. I want to say I saw him chit—chat at a

restaurant, the Boat House Restaurant. We

ran into each other. Maybe it was around the

time he was running for Senator.

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Now, you said you moved out of this property

in May of 2016; is that correct?

A. That's correct.

And where did you move?

A. At the same time, my wife's dad was

diagnosed with stage 4 bladder cancer and he

is from Pennsylvania. And she is an only

child, so I rented an apartment in

Pennsylvania so she could be with her father.

Where did you stay?.

A. I travel for work two or three weeks out

of the month. I am on the road for work, so

I home—based myself out of Pennsylvania for

that time frame.

Have you stayed in this property in Tiverton

since May of 2016?

A. Not until the other night.

So you went almost another year without

living in the property?

A. Pretty much, yes.

You do realize that when you sign the loan

documents, you're certifying that this would

be your primary residence?

A. Absolutely.

Did you change your Rhode Island driver's



9/5/201 8 8:49 AM


‘I’158

}

l license?

2 A. I never did because of the issue with the;

3 house and other issues with the town, which

4. this has nothing to do with.

;

5 We were going to remodel the housei

6 and then the town had zoning restrictions on

7 us to remodel the house. And that turnedi

i 8 into another issue with the house. And we

9 had to knock down the house, which was not my

10 plan.vé

ll Q. Did you hire an attorney to help you with

. 12 that? i

x") 13 A. John helped me with the zoning issue for !

l4 the town.

15 Q. I thought your testimony was he only helped

16 with your employment issues?

17 A. When you said this, it hit me that we had

18 a zoning issue in the beginning of 2016, when!

19 the town had said it was okay for me to Startl

20 remodeling the house. And then after we wereI

21 starting that, the building inspector saidi

22 you have to stop. I screwed up and I called !

23 Mr. Pagliarini, and he helped me with

. 24 representing us for the town. i

f. 25 MR. PICCIRILLI: I have nothingi

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further.

MR. BERGERON: Any follow-up?

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you

very much, Mr. Majewski.



afternoon, Ms. Majewski. I ask that you

identify yourself for the record.

THE WITNESS: Rebecca Majewski.




My name is Tom Bergeron. I think you know I

am counsel to the Committee.

A. Yes.

And I will ask you a series of questions and

some of the members of the Committee will

follow up with questions. And Mr.

Piccirilli, who is Mr. Paplauskas's attorney,

will have a chance to ask you questions as

well.

A. Okay.

MR. PICCIRILLI: Are you going to

ask her all of the same questions you asked

Mr. Bergeron? If you are, I will step out



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for a minute and let you do that.

MR. BERGERON: I don't plan on

doing that. I will ask her the general

questions we have been discussing.

MR. STRACHMAN: Is she a borrower?

MR. BERGERON: No. I will not go

through all of documents, but she was in the

room during the closing.

MR. VESPIA: Can we stipulate

there was a time that she acquiesced to all

of the documents that were presented to her?

MR. BERGERON: Yes. We will not

go through all of the documents.

Q. Ms. Majewski, what is your date of birth?

A. 8—4—83.

Q. Did you graduate from high school?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you go to high school?

A. Central Dauphin East in Harrisburg,

Pennsylvania.

Q. Did you ever go to law school?

A. No.

Q. Are you admitted to practice law?

A. No.

Q. What is your current.occupation?AJ



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A. I'm a housewife.

And have you ever been in the real estate

business?

A. I passed the test, but I never actually

made a transaction or worked under someone.

What state was that in?

A. Massachusetts.

The complaint in this matter involves a

closing that took place on July 21, 2015; do

you recall that closing?

A. Yes.

Were you a‘buyer in that transaction?

A. Yes.

And where is that pr0perty located?

A. 528 Nanaquaket Road, Tiverton, Rhode

Island.

And do you recall -— I will ask about prior

to the closing. Did you have anybody

representing you —~ do you recall whether

anybody‘was representing you prior to the

closing?

A. We had Deb Robbins as our Realtor, who was

speaking with Janney. I forget her last

name, it starts with an A, to help us with

the formal transactions. And she set up

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looking at the property and everything.

And did you take out a mortgage on the

property?

A. Yes.

Are you a borrower on that mortgage or is

your husband the sole borrower?

A. It has to only be Vin because I don't have

an income, but I em on the paperwork. I have

to say, he did that 100 percent. It was

on—line.

Sure.

A. Sorry.

That's fine. Do you specifically recall

prior to the closing any conversations with

the bank or any individual regarding whether

there would be an attorney at that closing?

A. I did not. I really was ignorant to

that. I think it was assumed that there

would be an attorney, but because Vincent had

previous closings of other properties, there

has always been an attorney there, but I did

not actually see that paperwork.

And the closing itself, where did that take

place?

A. At John Pagliarini's office in Tiverton.

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Where within the office did it take place?

A. When you walk in, you go to the back, to

the right, there's an office.

Was this a conference roam?

A. Yes.

Who was in there during the closing?

A. I know John wasn't, I don't think, the

whole time. He was in the office right

across. But Hailey was in and out. Our

Realtor, Janney, the two of us. He was in

and out I think.

During the closing, did you meet Mr.

Paplauskas?

A. Yes.

And at what point did you find out that

Mr. Paplauskas was a notary and not an

attorney?

A. Immediately. He did provide us with his

card and he introduced himself. He had all

of our paperwork from Chase.

Sure. I'm handing you what has been marked

as Exhibit 4. Do you recognize that

document?

A. Yes.

And what do you recognize it to be?

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A. That he is not an attorney. He did say

that.

Was that your understanding at the time he

presented that to you?

A. Yes, and that he would not be able to

explain or provide us with legal advice.

Sure. Did you sign that document?

A. I did.

Is that your signature?

A. Yes.

How did you react when he told you that he

was not an attorney; did you think about it?

A. No. Actually, it was not until afterward

that we are like all of our personal

information just went into this person's car

and there they go with it.

It was sort of at that moment, but

in the beginning we thought that's how it

would go because that's how we did —— the

.loan process was on—line. And however we

needed to buy the house, that was what we

needed to do. It seems like it was all

foggy, really.

That's okay. I just want to ask you about

the signing of the various documents. How

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did the closing proceed; did Mr. Paplauskas

give you the documents one by one?

A. Yes.

And did he describe the title to you; did he

read the title of the document to you?

A. Not in the clarity that I would have

remembered from previous closings. It wasn't

like —— it was not really explained so much.

How did you know —— while these documents

were being presented to you, how did you know

what was in the documents? Did you read the

whole thing?

A. Good point. No.

So they were provided to you?

A. Yes.

And he gave you the title; did he provide you

any explanation with the contents of the

document?

A. For each document, I would hate to say for

sure. That's a tough one.

You don't recall?

A. No.

After all of the documents were done being

signed, then what happened? What happened

after the closing finished?

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A. There were a couple of things that Hailey

had to go get, another form. This is very

vague, and I realize that. We were held up a

little bit.

Mr. Paplauskas was saying we may

need this. Then Hailey had to go fax

something or he wanted a copy of this or

something. I vaguely remember needing

something at the end of the closing.

And this was after everything was signed?

A. Yes.

And everybody got up from the table and went

outside, did you have any discussion with

Mr. Pagliarini about the closing?

A. Just that it seemed a little not

professional. We all felt that way,

including our Realtor.

Professional in what way?

A. Just like, after it's all done —— again,

it was all fast and we were closing and

excited, but it was just -— I think

especially with Vincent going through

everything on—line, all of that huge process

and then maybe just assuming that we would

have a formal attorney that would be

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representing us because it's a big deal

buying a house.

You personally expected there to be an

attorney there?

A. I did. I had purchased my own home in the

past and I had an attorney, too.

This is my last question before I turn it

over to the Committee. How do you like

living in Tiverton?

A. I adore it there. I'm from Pehnsylvania

and I think it's the best place.

Are the taxes high, though?

A. Yes.

MR. BERGERON: If anybody else

would like to ask some questions.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: N0

questions.

MS. GILLIGAN: No.

MR. VESPIA: No questions.

MR. PICCIRILLI: No questions.

MR. STRACHMAN: No questions.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We don't

have any further questions. Thank you.

Let's take a short break.

(RECESS TAKEN FROM 4:10 P.M. TO 4:15 P.M.)



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CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: We are back

on the record. We are resuming after a short

break. My understanding is staff Attorney

Tom Bergeron, presenting on behalf of UPLC,

has no additional questions for Mr.

Paplauskas. Mr. Piccirilli, the floor is

yours.

MR. PICCIRILLI: I have no

questions of Mr. Paplauskas, either.

I ask these be marked as Exhibits

14 and 15. Exhibit 14 is a March 29, 2002

letter from the Federal Trade commission and

Department of Justice to the Rhode Island

General Assembly indicating the Federal

Government's strong opposition to proposed

legislation regarding restricting real estate

closings to licensed attorneys in the state.

Exhibit 15 is a subsequent letter

of December of 2002, pretty much reiterating

that position.

EXHIBITS l4 AND 15 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION

Far be it from me to explain it

any more strongly than the esteemed Attorney

Ted Cruz, who signed on behalf of the Federal

Trade Commission at the time. If you're pro



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Ted Cruz, yay. If you're not, don't hold it

against me.

In all seriousness, if you read

those reports, and I am sure your staff

attorney probably has already been over a

recent case in Massachusetts involving real

estate closings, I think what this Cammittee

is going to find is you are woefully and

inadequately being presented with

documentation and evidence to make any

informed judgment as to what would constitute

the practice of law with regard to real

estate closings.

You have chosen, for whatever

reason, to treat this as an adversarial

proceeding, not a type of investigatory

proceeding where you could ask members of the

Rhode Island Bar who practice in real estate

to come before you and make a presentation.

Members of title companies in the State of

Rhode Island and members of the mortgage

industry, and all of the other individuals

who could come before you and present very

reasoned and historical and legal

perspectives as to what real estate closings

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involve, how they developed over time and

really develop what that all is.

Instead, we are here because you

dragged my client under the threat of

whatever, punishment for the unauthorized

practice of law, for cammitting what could

potentially be a crime in this state.

If I come across a little

difficult, it's because I take great issue

with the way you have chosen to present this

case or deal with this issue. If it was

truly an investigation, why didn't you open

this up? Does the Rhode Island Bar

Association even know what you're doing right

now?

Do the members who practice real

estate know what you're contemplating? Does

the mortgage industry in this state have any

idea of what you're proposing to rule on?

Does the title insurance business in this

state have any idea?

I have not told them, but maybe I

should have. But they're the ones that made

presentations to the General Assembly when

legislation was proposed.



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They gave broad perspectives as to

the pluses and minuses of trying to regulate

in this area. The same thing happened in

Massachusetts.

The Amicus briefs that were filed

in the Massachusetts Supreme Court case would

fill up this table. And the same in many of

the other states that have contemplated

this. It's only a handful, as you will see

from these letters.

It's only a half dozen states that

have even attempted to regulate this. I just

learned from my client today. I did a lot of

real estate. I don't do a lot anymore,

mainly because it has become so regulated and

because mostly non—attorneys are doing it

nowadays. There's not a lot of money to be

made as an attorney.

My client told me title companies

do web closings. Imagine going to close on

your house and there's nobody in the room?

You're signing with your finger on a computer

pad and you're the only one in the room.

You could be at a Starbucks doing

that, and somebody is on the video screen



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telling you what to do.

If any of you have ever been

involved in real estate closings, and I am

sure you have, both from buying, refinancing

maybe commercial, maybe investment, you know

that there are all kinds of different

transactions.

You know there are different

issues that come up when you deal with that.

There's no cookie cutter, clear way to

resolve that. You're not going to do it here

today.

Are you going to say Mr.

Paplauskas engaged in the practice of law

because he said that if you sign this

mortgage disclosure document, you may be

subject to a penalty? Really? Is that what

we are here for?

He is a notary public. I have

given you the statutes and regulations. Not

only does he have the right, he has the

obligation to provide some minimal

information of what he is having someone

sign. That is his obligation as a notary.

And there's nobody in this room



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and nobody that came here to testify that is

more knowledgeable about real estate closings

than this gentleman sitting next to me. I

dare anybody to challenge his expertise in

that area. As a notary, that's all he needs

in Rhode Island.

And forgive me, but the hokum,

poor me, I don't know, should‘I have an

attorney or not, give me a break. You have

bought three or four properties and yOu don't

know whether or not you should get a Rhode

Island real estate attorney involved for

however much money you're bringing to a

closing. I don't buy that. I don't buy that

stupidity. What I buy is the guy did not

want to pay a lawyer.

I am not going to waste any more

time. I made my point. I would really

seriously suggest that this Committee really

think about what you're trying to accomplish.

If you're really trying to

accomplish some regulation of real estate

closings, you better invite a lot more people

to this table to explain what goes on. You

have only gotten a smattering of it.


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I think whoever you recommend this

to is going to fault you if you don't. If

you recommend this to the Supreme Court under

the way it is right now, I don't think they

are going to be very happy.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Anything

further? Are you through?


further.

CHAIRWOMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Thank

you.

(CLOSED AT 4:30 P.M.)

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175

C—E—R-T-I—F-I—C-A—T—E

I, BARBARA WARNER, Notary Public, RPR,do hereby certify that I reported inshorthand the foregoing proceedings, and thatthe foregoing transcript contains a true,accurate, and complete record of theproceedings at the above—entitled keeper ofrecords deposition.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto setmy hand this 12th day of May, 2017.

BARBARA WARNER, NOTARY PUBLIC, RPR,CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER

*MY COMMISSION EXPIRES OCTOBER 15, 2018.


-........ a1 ‘I -: nAnnnvl—vannvi-arc flnm

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

WilliamE. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II

94:16;107:24;111:6;

HearingMay 9, 2017

114:15;119:10; 144:2;150:11 application (5) assuming (2)

$ 148:2;161:4;162:22; ago (1) 47:17;97:20;98:22; 133:15;166:24

164:13 55:17 99:1;120z7 assumption (3) 5

$10,000 (2)Acull (1) agree (4) appointment (2) 40:15;105:15;

I

65:3;1499 102:13 45:10;46:8;63:14; 144:%7;150:16 109:5l

$127,000 (1)ad (1) 66.13 apportloned (1) attempted (1)

I

149:10 9:3 agreed (1) 92:9. 171:12I

$127,190 (1)additional (4) 99:9 appralsal (1) attend (5) I

14820 6:1;20:10;80:2; agreement (6) 123:8 12:2;13:21;1423;i

$20,000 (1)168:5 22:18;91:15; Appraisal/Evaluation (1) 21 :7;135:2

II

65:3addressed (1) 109:19;115:12; 122:25 attendance (1)

:

$250 (1)20:15 122:16;151:24 appreciated (1) 74:15

28:15 admit (1) agreements (1) 38:16 attention (2)l

$500,000 (1)30115 7228 appropriate (2) 1125;15028

!

25:1admitted (9) ahead (3) 55:25;81:25 Attorney (161)

;

8:9,12,14,18;67:16, 80:2,11;125:6 approved (3) 5: 17, 19,21;8:8;9:5;

A 19,23;102:7;160:23 alive (1) 28:12;29:20;39:15 11. 24; 12: 11; 13: 7, 9,

adore (1) 58:15 approximately (2) 25, 14: 25, 22. 9 14;:

ability (1)167:10 allege (1) 18:4;155:10 24: 15,25: 25,26: 17,

140.25advance (2) 27:7 aptly (1) 28: 12; 29: 8, 17, 30: 8,

able (15)45:1 1;50:24 allow (9) 53:6 20,21 ,:31 15,23 ,32: 2;

67:6;71 173098; adversarial (1) 13:17;14:13;22:5; area (5) 33:12;34:17;35:5,12,

114:11.129:5 25;169:15 23:2;49:10;59:6; 29:6;40:19;58:13; I9;36:7,9,10,I 1,12,

2133;914:213; 26:19;27:2;57:25; allowed (2) areas (1) 20,22,42' 9, 12, 15,21,

above (1),

’

109:21;164:6 allowing (2) argument (1) 45' 1 ,8, 8, 13, 16 ,4615: 2,

89:18 advise(5A)

8

141:7;134112 26:211) £8,178:7.

5'

,:43

22"

O_ 39:11; 2:10;7 :3; a m0st( arise 2 13 51:

:1abgg'ggeferenced (1)97:2;153:1 58:14,15;81;1; 82:19 52. 24 55- 3 59 17,‘

absence (1)advised (3) 127:21;157:18 arose (1) 60' 2, 19' 67' 15; 69' i14,

134:13 97:24;131:24; along (2) 76:3 17;71:22;75:21;76:5;

Absolutely (9)132:1 11:24;17:8 around (5) 80:4,15,19;81:3,9,’13,

9:14;49:25;50:5.advising (4) always (5) 5:13;133:16; 22; 82. 17' 83: 12'

53:21.61zl3glog’fl4. 27:5;56:16;58:9; 105:22;144:9; 155:12,15;156:24 85' 23, 86: 6; 90: 14,24'

153:2’1.154:1.157:2& 97:16 145:10,23;162:21 arrangements (1) 92' 21; 93. 9, 14, 16,20,

access (15

’

affidavits (2) Amicus (1) 136:1 22, 96. 12, 14, 17,20,

78:15 17:6;72:6 171:5 Arricell (2) 21; 97. 4, 12,21 ;98:-:,1

accomplish (2)afternoon (11) amongst (1) 12:13;89:17 14; 99. 3 ,;4 104: 16,I20,

173.20 22 5:3;7:21,22;66:20; 17:2 ascribing (1) 22, 105: 15,20,22',J

account (’4) 86:16,l9,22,23;87:9; amount (3) 21:20 106:4,6;107:3,17,I23;'

19.15 2160.7. 100:22;159:7 18:16;69:7;148:22 Aside (1) 108. 17; 109' 19,

125.1’8’ ’

afterward (1) annoying (1) 72:7 110: 5,5, 134' 12, 16;

accountable (1)164:13 38:9 Assembly (2) 135. 3' 144: 9, 11, 14,

91.22 Again (20) answered (3) 168:14;170:24 15, 19,20; 145' 12,21,

accurate (4)37:19;45:4;46:1; 39:21;41:14;48:21 asset (1) 23;146:25;147:9,:14,

1118;34:15;61 .2;48:4;58:20;82:1 1; anticipation (2) 18:22 17,23;15 1 :2,1 1,13;

84.21 85:16;95:21,25; 11:23;72:1 assist (l) 153:1;158:11;

acknowledge (1)109:2;1 10:24; anymore (4) 57:21 159:19; 162:16,19,21;

63:15 113:19;114:10; 49:20;91:4,5; associate (3) 163:17;164:1,12;

Acknowledgment (1)116:1;124:6;125:8; 171:14 22:12;26:1 1;69:17 166:25;167:4,6;

122.24 139:23;140:23; apartment (2) associates (2) 168:3,23;169:5;

acquiesced (1)I41:13;166:19 151:22;157:8 50:20;69:18 171:18;173:9,12

160:10~ against (4) apparently (3) Association (2) attorneys (21)

across (2)34:5;35:4;52:17; 46:15,19;50:11 19:20;170:14 13:19;18:11;21:6,

16391703 169:2 appeal (1) assume (6) 9;26:6;29:21;31:23;

act (2)

’

agency (1) 9:19 11:16;28:21;31:9; 34:7;35:16;37:11,!13;

5724;99:18 18:10 appeals (1) 136:16;143:20; 39:1 6;52:3;59:1 1,I13;

acting (1)agent (15) 9:4 148:10 60:22,25;63:22;

25:19 22:14,22;23:11; appeared (1) assumed (5) 69:21;99:25;168:I17

actually (12)24:22;29:22;45:18; 24: 13 105:20;106:5; attorney's (1)

I

25.6.92.24.93.12. 47:1;53:3;55:6;64:6; appearing (1) 144:11;148:12; 129:6i

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76:21;96:16;143:21; 26:2 162:18 August (1)g

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9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

Hearing William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — V01. II

May 9, 2917|

44:5 become (1) 160:14 Bureau (4) 13: 8; 14: 11 22,24,I

available (3) 171115 bit (2) 18:7;20:18;47:11; 16. 22; 18: 6;42: 8;

43:23;44:21;60:3 becomes (l) 112:2;166:4 62:15 43: 16,44: 1; 74: 15, a

aware (6) 31:14 bladder (1) business (5) 79: 20; 110. 9, 130: 2-5;

21:5,9;38:3;39:18; becoming (1) 157:6 2525;102:23; 139: 3; 144:4,20, i

56:8;97:9 27:21 blank (1) 104:12;161:3;170:20 154: 17, 19, 21; 173: '1

away (1) beforehand (1) 64:7 businesses (1) Can (53) 1

95:19 153:6 block (1) 150:13 10:8,16;17:3;;

began (1) 64:6 buy (7) 18:24;25:3;26:20;l

B 111:8 Boat (1) 18:23;65:4;151:15; 27:3;29:18;33:5; 5

begin (1) 156:23 164:21;173:14,14,15 34' 16,35: 24;36: 8;!

Bachelor (1) 143:18 book (1) buyer (54) 37: 16;41: 16' 43' 13'

102:2 beginning (l9) 55:16 9:11;20:5;24:14; 48: 13; 49: 15 24, 50 4,

back (30) 12:19,20;14:21; borrower (17) 26:25;27:23,24;29:8, 9, 52: 24; 53: 18, 54. 1,

11:7,21;15:14,16;

27: 13;34:24;35:23;

47:10;48:4,14,15;

77:14;79:25;82:9;

84:21;89:16,17;

90:13;100:21;

103:11;105:3;

114:10;122:12;

130:25;131:2;

134:23;145:14;

154:19;163:2;168:1

bank (31)

19:24;22:20;34:3;

36:4,4,8,10;45:14;

46:1 1;60:6;104:1,4,

15,18;105:7,10,23;

106:5,7;125:11;

146:3,5,9,10,1 1,12;

148:2;149:5,22;

153:20;162:15

banks (3)

34:21;144:8;

145:25

bank's (3)

34:16;36:15;45:8

bar (11)

8:10,12,15,16,18;

19:20;51:1 1;67:17;

102:7;169:18;170:13

bargain (1)

147:6

bargaining (l)

139:5

base (2)

31:12;153:7

based (3)

37:13;92:14;95:22

basically (1)

92:7

basis (1)

10:23

Bates (1)

88: 13

BCI (1)

61 :25

bear (1)

20:8

became (1)

142:21

15:10,12;74:21,24;

75:13;78:3;107:10,

18,25;108:1,19;

110:12;137:23;

152:4;158:18;164:18

behalf (9)

7:12;9:9;26:2;

68:15;94:13;95:10;

147:15;168:4,24

belief (2)

15:6;56:7

bell (1)

125:11

Bergeron (47)

5:20;6:9;7:5,8,20,

23;13:13;14:18;

20:24;32:22,25;

37:23;39:2,19;49:7;

54:5;55:18;57:12;

63:18;65:9,23;66:12,

25;67:1;70:11;74:3;

79:12;84:8;94:17;

101:3,4;127:10;

131:4;137:1;145:1;

146:21;156:7,12;

159:2,12,l3,25;

160:2,6,12;167:14;

168:4

best (3)

82:20;89:5;167:11

bet (1)

63:12

better (1)

173:23

beyond (l)

102:3

big (3)

109:15;151:5;

167:1

bigger (2)

18:1;19:15

biggest (1)

18:22

bill (3)

17:11;98:3;118:6

bills (2)

92:13,13

birth (5)

8:5;67:8,9;101:13;

33:21;34:25;35:15,

20,22;36:3,22;43:1 1;

44: 14;46:22;53 :5,15;

55:5;97:11;160:5;

162:5,6

borrowers (3)

36:9,14;39:12

Borrower's (1)

114:17

Boston (3)

151:22;152:19,21

both (l7)

9:11;30:25;31:2,3,

14,17,22;44:22;

62:10,14,19;93:1;

94:5;95:4;96:23;

146:17;172:4

bottom (3)

73:2;122:2;125:22

bought (3)

147:2,22;173:10

branch (2)

146:7,8

break (4)

100:18;167:24;

168:3;173:9

breakout (1)

140:6

brief (1)

83:25

briefs (1)

171:5

bring (6)

73:17;148:17,22;

149:1,8;153:17

bringing (2)

154:10;173:13

broad (1)

171:1

broker (1)

150213

brought (6)

28:22;80:25;

127:23;128:18;

149:19;155:20

building (1)

158221,

bunch (1)

152:23

10,12,17,1 8;30:7,12,

18;32:3,9;33:17,19;

37:1 1;43:10;44:13,

22;46:1 1,22;52:17,

18,24;53:10;59:18;

64:25;65:3,4;68:17;

85:18,20;86:8,11;

90:15,25;92:9;94:5,

14;95;3,4;96:7,13,17,

21,24;97:10,16;

103:4;127:8;161:12

buyers (25)

12:5;15:3,4;21:23;

22:16;23:10;26:12;

27:1,5,12;45:7;66:2;

68:9;70:19;73:14;

74:15;75:25;77:4;

78:15;79:20;80:17;

83:3;88:1;90:7;98:12

buyer's (11)

22:14;41:22;44:13;

45:1;47:l7;59:17;

84:6;85:18;89:15;

92:25;93:22

buying (5)

36:3;149:25;150:2;

167:2;172:4

C

calculated (1)

27:18

calendar (1)

136:17

call (5)

6:18;24:17;32:18;

64:18;105:2

called (13)

6:13;31 :4;50:9;

70:21;91:14;102:13;

104:12;148:2,4,8;

150:14,15;158:22

calling (2)

7:9;152:10

calls (3)

49:22;50:1;105:4

calm (l)

48:2

came (20)

15,21 ,22, 55:,4921'

56.2;:;:57765 11,20,

68:;669:2,:75 12;|83' 14;:;874 101. 8'|

111. 10, 113' 9'

114: 13, 115: 9, 116: 6,

13; 117: 10, 17' 118. 1,0

17; 130:;7 152. 11-I1

156:7;160:91

cancer (1)'

157:6

capacity (4)

9:5;43:8;102:11;

104:17

captain (1)

153:8

car (1)

164:15

card (2)

51:11;163:19

care (3)

146:18;151:13;

153214

Carolyn (1)

89:18

case (26)

6:12;7:2,4;18:14;

22: 15;25:7;26:22;

27. 22,28: 23,45. 1:4;

50:,712,:;652270-:,9

11' 7.2 11',:;762 871 17,

94: 19; 96: 17' 97' 23;

147. 9; 148'4, 169: 6;

170: 11, 171' 6

cases (1)

35:23

cash (1)

30:11

cashier's (2)

149:22,23

categorized (2)I

10:25;33:5 l

caught (1)

115:16:

caused (2)'

105:18;128:211CD (1)1

64:19I

Central (1)

fi~§§§2~U~f§wipt® Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-55001 1: Dunhhr A ...... n r‘u-nucfnn DI 07070 www allipdrnilrfrennrfers.c0m

(2) available — Cebual

1

fur...

Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Volf. II

May 9, 2917

160:19

certain (8)

17:12;27:8;29:20;

37:12;45:15;47:12;

15122025certainly (1)

55:21

certificate (2)

56:16;58:10

Certification (l)

121 :4

certified (1)

149:2

certifying (1)

157:22

cetera (1)

39:16

CFPB (6)

37:14;62:23,25;

63:23;64:1,21

chair (3)

7:12;47:23;81 :24

chairing (1)

5:4

CHAIRWOMAN (56)

5:2,12;6:8,19;7:10;

13:17;14:13;22:5;

23:2;25:23;28:4;

32:6,20;38:l3,20;

39:20,25;40:7;41:2,

13,16;42:4;48:1,7;

49:9;56:2,19;57:7;

59:6;65:19;66:9,19;

70:10;74:4;82:3;

83:17,19;84:7;95:14;

100:13,17,21;I31:6,

7;132:8;13428,10;

135:18;145:3;159:3,

6;l67:16,22;168:1;

174:6,10

challenge (1)

173:4

chance (1)

159120

change (3)

38:8,10;157:25

changed (2)

21:13;49:15

changing (1)

20:18

charge (2)

45:2;95: 11

Chase (27)

62:1 1;104:2,4,25;

105:11;106:21;

117:6;121:15;122:8,

11;124:17;125:5,11;

140:4,7,8;144:6,1 8;

146:4,7;147:1 1;

148:25;151:9;152:7,

9,10;163:20

check (11)

24:24;25:1,4;84:2;

141 :22,23;l49:3,8,

20,22,23

checked (1)

61 :25

checking (1)

153:10

checks (1)

24:21

Chief (1)

5: 1 8

child (1)

157:8

chip (1)

49:20

chit~chat (1)

156:22

choice (1)

6: 1 8

chomping (1)

112:1

chosen (4)

99:3,4;169:14;

170:10

circumstances (1)

3 1 :1

city (1)

92; 1 5

claim (2)

38:3;139:8

claiming (1)

52:19

claims (1)

39:7

clarify (3)

33:1 1;146:2;156:7

clarifying (1)

140:23_

clarity (1)

165:6

clear (7)

6:10;43:20;79:17;

96:2,23;150:5;

172:10

clearly (1)

39: 16

Cleveland (2)

105:5,6

client (1 1)

5:25;6:5,23;7:3;

170:4;171:13,19

clients (8)

23:15,22;25:6;

77:6;78:14;80:2;

82:13;92:24

close (18)

25:5;28:8;49:16,

18;108:7;1 14:11;

125:13;128:13;

129:17,21;133:17;

149:13;151:25;

171:20

86:3,] 8;87:22;91 :19;

152:10,13,20;155:13;

closed (12)

87:9;105:21;114:6;

132:22,24;133:13;

145:8,14,15;146:2;

150:7;174:12

closer (3)

13:4;106:1;156:16

closing (268)

9:16,24;10:2;

11:14,21,23;12:3,7,

16,19,20,22,24;13:2,

5,7,21,24;14:3;15:8,

21,24;16:1,2,22;

17:19;18:11,20;19:2;

20:19;22:10,11,12,

13;24:12;25:10;27:3,

5,11;29:7,12;30:4,13,

19;31:17;32:19;33:8,

15;36:9,10,12;41:21,

23;42:22;43: 1,4,5,7,

10;44:21,23;45:11,

14;46:2,3,6,9,16,20,

22,24,25;47:8,16;

49:24;50:4,10,15,23;

51:20;53:3,17;59:16,

18;60:5;63:22;64:4;

66:1;68:10;69:9,1 1;

70:3;71:5,8,19,23;

72:1,24;73:6,10,17,

20,22;74:7,9,1 0, 1 7,

21,24;75:6,7,13;

76:10,23;77:17,19,

24;78:2,9, 1 0,20,25;

79:22;80:1 1;81:12;

82:8;83:1;84:16,20;

85:8,25;86:9,15,22;

87:2,8;88:2,8,10,25;

89:1 1,25;90:19;91:7;

93:14,17;96:8,19,24;

97:21;98:4,6,12,16,

17,23,25;99:17;

100:8;103:1,2,17,19,

21;104:4,11,23;

106:2,4,7,9,12,15,18,

19,23,25;107:4,10,

19;108:19;109:3,9,

21,23;110:8,12,17,

20;1 11:8,9;113:18;

115:2,22;116:22,24;

117:22,23;119:1,17;

120:17;121:13;

122:5,9;123:25;

125:6,9,12,25;

127:19,21,25;128:6,

22;130:17,24;133:7,

22;]34:13,16;135:20,

22;140:22,24;141:3,

20;142:12;143:1;

144:3,4,17;145:24;

146:19;147:10,15,19,

24;148:3,5,6,18,23;

149:2,4,8,15;151:7;

152:1,1 l;153:3,16,

20;160:8;161:9,10,

18,21;162:14,16,23;

163:6,12;165:1,25;

166:9,14,20;173:14

closings (37)

9:2,2,6;17:10;

20:22;21:7,10;26:1;

31:21;33:4;36:20;

40:17,25;61:21;68:9,

12,20,23;85:1,3;93:7;

94:23;95:22;98:10;

111:25;1 13:3;144:7;

162:20;165:7;

168:17;169:7,13,25;

171:20;172:3;173:2,

23

Coast (1)

102:17

colder (1)

156:17

combative (1)

48:8

comfortable (3),

46:15,19;141:7

coming (4)

12:5;43:24;51:3;

108220

COMMENCED (2)

5:1 ;43:1

commercial (3)

9:2;35:8;172;5

commission (2)

168:12,25

Commitment (1)

124:13

Committee (38)

5:6,15,22;6:12;

7:13,24;9:16;10:15,

22;11:1,2,3;17:24;

20:15,21,25;33:1;

56:1;63:13;65:16;

66: 10;67:2,4;68:22;

79: 12;82:1;84:9;

94:25;100:14;101:6,

8;131:4;145:2;

159:14,17;167:8;

169:7;173:19

committing (1)

170:6

communication (3)

89:8;105:1;156:20

communications (7)

43:3;71:18;88:8;

104:3,6;105:17;

154:23

companies (10)

26:5;37:10;39:9,

10,15;62:24,24;

98:10;169:20;171:19

company (23)

16:12;42:10;43:24;

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12,20;70:21,25;71 :1;

85:18;86:8;88:9;‘

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Compare (1) i

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40:5i

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complaint (25) |

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complete (3) :

22:23;75:23;141:4

completed (2) |

23:13;65:22

completes (1)

23:5

completing (3)

56:15;57:22;64:5

Compton (1)

50:4

computer (1)

171122

concern (3)

29:1;77:3,7

concerned (2)

28:24;62:17

concerning (l)

156:10

conclude (1)

105: 18

concluded (l)

105:24

conclusions (1)

55:20

conduct (8)

9:6;21:10;22:1 1;

28:24;47:8;55:13;

5619;96:19

conducted (4)

22:12;68:12,14,15

conducting (4)

46:3;59:17;76:10;

106:9

conference (14)

12: 17, 18, 15. 24,

16. 3, 18. 3 ,7:4 19,2IO

75. 14;79:21 81: 17;

83: 20, 107. 7, 9, 163.4conform (1)

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18: 9I

confused (3) 1

2610;133:625i

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|

confusing (1)

27:3

confusion (1)

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9/5/201 8 8:49 AM|

(

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol, IIHearingMay 9, 2917

110223 147:11;151:1 25:19 30:11;50:18; described (1)j

Conn (19) conversations (5) cursory (1) 109:15;167:1; 63:9 :

11:25;12:11;13:7; 100:4,9;119:21; 53:15 170:11;172:9 describing (1) l

14:1 1,24;26:11;27:2; 136:2;162:14 custody (2) dealing (1) 140220 i

43:6,8;45:17,20; convey (1) 19:8;42:2 144:6 desk (1)i

46:13,19;66:1;67:13; 16:6 custom (1) dealings (1) 13:3 '

88:19;1 10:4,5,6 cookie (1) 24:19 148:24 detail (3)}

consent (1) 172: 10 customarily (3) dealt (3) 106:22;1 13:2;i

31:10 copy (8) 40:9;41:22;95:17 46:13;144:8; 138:14i

considerable (3) 11:9;22:17;47:13, customary (3) 145:25 details (7),

9:21,22;18:16 19;49:16,21;86:1; 20:11;40:12,23 Deb (9) 106:13,16;109:1;i

constitute (1) 166:7 cut (1) 5:3;7:11;107:13; 117:3;118:8;128:1:7;

169:11 Correction (1) 150:4 150:11,12,15,15,17; 149:6g

consult (1) 122: 15 cutter (1) 161 :22 develop (1)g

8 1:17 correctly (5) 172:10 decades (1) 170:2i

consultant (1) 71:3;1 1 1:21;134:1, 34:22 developed (1)Ii

153:1 22;135:5 D December (1) 170:1;

Consumer (4) cost (1) 168:19 diagnosed (1) i

18:6;20:17;47:11; 20:8 dad (2) deed (46) 157:6;

62:15 counsel (10) 136:23;157:5 16:5,14;17:1,4; Diamond (1)1

consumer-protecfion (1) 7:23;8:2;31:5; daily (2) ,

19:6;23:4,6;24:3; 101:18i

20:22 45:1;50:2;67:1,5; 26:4,7 30:23;59:18,20; difference (1)'

contact (9) 101:5,9;159:14 dare (1) 60:12,17;61:11;62:5; 147:5

l7:16;43:6;44: 19; counter-signatures (1) 173:4 65:6;72:5,10,24; different (9)

71:6,10,12;79:7; 80:7 Dartmouth (l) 78:24;79:4;80:1; 24:12;28:15;35:25;

89:14;104:12 couple (9) 101:25 86:7;93:16,21,24; 129:12;139:14;

contacted (2) 85:14;105:3; date (31) 94:2,6;126:22;127:4, 149: 12,13;172:6,8

90:23;106:11 137:15;138:2,5,24; 8:5;28:16;43:5; 9;128:1 1;137:2; difficult (1)

contacting (1) 140:8;150:7;166:1 45:15;50:15;67:8,9; 139:1,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, 170:9

71:13 Court (7) 86349101513; 11;142:l;147:6,6,7 DIRECT (4)

contacts (1) 8:16;38:14;48:11; 106:1 1;1 14:3,6; deeds (4) 7:20;47:24;66:25;

44:20 63:24;64:1;171:6; 116:19;118:23; 59:11,13;134:3; 159:12

contained (l) 174:3 119:14,19;120:14; 139:14 directed (2)

126:6 covering (1) 121:10;122:9,20; default (1) 48:20;62:23

contemplated (1) 15:4 123:4,22;124:25; 52:18 directly (l)

171 :8 cracking (1) 142:23;143:23; defective (1) 14:21

contemplating (1) 138124 148:5;151225; 23:12 disagree (1)

170:17 credibility (1) 152:13;154:3;160:14 defendant (1) 53:13

content (2) 63:16 dated (l) 70:9 DiSanto (12)

132:14,19 credit (4) 90:17 defense (1) 5:18;21 :2,4;29:5;

contents (2) 33:23;34:4;35:4; Dauphin (1) 19:22 133:3,5;134:7;135 :7,

71:1 1;165:17 47:18 160:19 definitely (4) 9;145:5,7;146:20

contingent (1) crime (1) David (1) 80:1;82:9;122:19, disburse (1)

7:2 170:7 5:19 20 59:20

continuation (1) criminal (1) day (40) definition (2) disbursed (l)

118:19 70:9 11:14;12:10;23:13; 55:1;59:25 60:8

continue (2) CROSS (4) 25:5,13;27:12;28:8; degree (1) disbursing (1)

6:4;48:12 33:3;84:10;l46:22; 45:3;59:12;71:19; 102:1 87:12

continuing (1) 151:6 74:12;78:13;79:18; delay (1) disclose (1)

7:4 crossed (3) 80: 15;83:9;87:5,12, 153:3 52:21

contract (2) 110:3;151:4,8 15;99:5;100:8;1 12:6; denied (2) disclosure (5)

63:6;86:5 cross—examination (1) 114:11;129:3; 6:25;7:l 17:12;31:13;

contractors (1) 6:15 133:15;135:20; Department (2) 118:13;125:18;

99:21 cross—examine (1) 138:19;140:1,2,13, 21:5;168213 172:16

contractual (3) 33:2 21;141 :2;142:6,13, depends (5) disconcerting (1)

62:7;63:4,7 cross—examining (1) 14,16;143:3,5,20; 29:18;31:24;32:3; 13:22

control (1) 6:16 149:16;152:17 61:21;86:23 discovered (1)

64:24 Cruz (2) days (11) deposes (4) 80:18

conversation (15)

21:22;104:18,21,

24;128:23,25;

129:24; 130:1,4,6,8;

134:5;141 :13;

168:24;169:1

current (6)

8:7;67: 14:9314;

102:9;155:7;160:25

currier (1)

16:19;20:10;25:8;

51:19;87:1;109:8;

130:23;136:10;

142:4;150:1;154:3

deal (6)

7:18;66:23;101:1;

159:10

describe (4)

10:21;68:6;75:12;

165:4

|

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discuss (6) !

53:9;69:8;78:6;i

102:25;134:11; i

139:22I

discussed (3)I

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Hearing

9/5501 8 8:49 AMI

|

WilliamE. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II

May 9, 2017

78:11;108:12;

128:17

discussing (6)

53:4;71:21;76:22;

77:4;132:6;160:4

discussion (6)

83:11;114:8;

115:24;150:24;

154:8;166:13

discussions (11)

76:25;115:6;117:1;

118:1;120:21,23;

124:4;126:4;128:10;

138:22,25

dismiss (3)

6:21,21,24

doctor's (1)

133:12

document (134)

10:5,8,11,21;16:4;

31:8;39:1;‘42:1,3;

54:8,18;56:16;57:19,

23;58:9,25;59:3;

60:14;72:19,21;73:5,

9,12,17,19;88:12;

91:13,14,18;92:5,7;

97:15;98:2,5,1 1;

108:13,18,21,25;

109:13,16;1 10:2;

111:5,22;1 1210,20,

24,25;113:11,15,17;

114:8,17,20,22;

115:1,7,11,13,l4,17,

19,21,25;116:8,9,16,

21;117:12,15,21;

118:2,9,12,15,19,25;

119:7,9,I6,22;120:1,'

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23,25;122:4,15,15,

18,24;123:2,6,15,18,

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126:5,16,22;127:1,6,

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l31:11,16;132:12,15;

138:15;155:9,25;

156:2;163:23;164:7;

165:5,18,19;172:16

documentation (1)

169:10

documents (96)

11:22;12:1,25;

13:20;14:1,6;16:10,

22,24;17:2,4,7;24:1,

3;25:20;28:13,15;

30:2;34:7,23,25;

47:3;53:14;54:16;

55:24;60:22;61:1;

71:2,25;72;1,3;

73:24;74:16;76:l;

77:4,8,1 1,24;78:4,1 1,

21;80:2,6,13;84:5;

86:7;89:1;93:17;

94:12;95:3,lO,12;

96:1;98:6;99:17;

106:19;111:9,16,19;

112:17;128:15,18;

129:19,20,22;131:8,

14,17;132:20;

136:20;137:1;

138:10,12,13,23;

139:18,24;140:1,3,8,

11,13,19;142:11;

152:7;153:15;154:4;

157:22;160:7,11,13;

164:25;165:2,9,11,23

done (30)

8:1;9:13;24:18;

29:7,12;33:13,15;

34:16;37:7,9;38:23;

40:9;49:2;60:5;

75:10,I 1;81:13;

87:10;88:2;95:17;

97:18,]9;101:7;

105:12;112:2;144:7;

154:25;155:5;

165:23;166:19

door (1)

13:4

dough (2)

23:15,20

down (9)

17:9;37:15;48:2;

49:12;65:5;88:18;

118:5;151:18;158:9

download (1)

106:20

dozen (3)

49:4;84:23;171:11

draft (3)

54:22;72:5;73:5

drafted (2)

72:24;91:19

drafting (5)

30:23;56:15;57:22;

5829;95:12

dragged (1)

170:4

draw (1)

65:5

driver's (1)

157225

drove (1)

155:18

due (1)

20:6

duly (7)

7:18;56:12;58:6,

17;66:23;101:1;

159:10

during (15)

12:24;13:2;15:24;

41:23;68:20;71:5;

73:20,22;75:7;

104:14;128:10;

138:8;160:8;163:6,

12

E

earlier (3)

46:4;137zl3;

153:23

early (1)

86:23

East (2)

102:17;160:19

easy (1)

27:14

education (2)

101 :23;102:3

effect (1)

83:13

effectively (1)

25:18

eight (1)

37:17

either (9) ,

24:19;31:23;61:20;

68:17;75:15;99:2;

104:15;128:25;168:9

Electrical (1)

101125

elicited (1)

56:22

else (12)

41:4;42:6;47:7;

57:4;89:2;90:24;

126:8;129:5,9;141:5;

154:12;167:14

E—mail (7)

88:15;89:7,16,21,

24,25g90z9

E~mailed (5)

90:13;105:2;

106:21;140:4,9

employees (1)

99:20

employer (3)

100:6;155:7,8

employment (3)

156:11,15;158:16

end (15)

5:16;32:1;78:25;

82:17;96:15;125:13;

141 :10,12,19,20;

142:1,12;155:13;

156:17;166:9

ended (3)

6:14;78:20;140:22

engage (1)

57:25

engaged (2)

102:22;172:14

engagement (1)

156:4

Engineering (1)

101:25

enough (2)

20:14;62:9

enter (1)

83:20

entire (4)

47:16,18;53:25;

54:25

entirety (2)

75:7;13 1:14

entities (1)

63:5

entitled (1)

113213

entrust (1)

62:5

equity (1)

20:1

equivalent (1)

23:8

Ernie (8)

113:21;129:10;

133:10;135:24;

141:7;143:15;153:5,

13

Ernie's (1)

141 :15

Error (1)

115211

errors (2)

52:11;1 15:15

escrow (12)

16:14;19:15;24:24;

59:1 1,14,25;60:13,

15,16,17,20;125:17

especially (1)

166:22

estate (46)

8:23,25;9:1,6,24;

21:7,10;29:6,24;

30:16;33:6,12;34:12;

35:9,18;36:4,20;

38:4;39:7;40:6,13,

24;68:5,7,16;69:9;

92:2,8;93:4,7;94:23;

102:22;105:12;

150:10;161:2;

168:16;169:7,13,18,

25;170:17;171:14;

172:3;173:2,12,22

esteemed (1)

168:23

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9:15;68:22;69:2

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39:16

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16:15;38:3;46:8;

51:8;80:14;81:8;

95:9;110:3;137:9;

151:4;170:14;171:12

everybody (4)

12:21;47:3;129:23;

166:12

evidence (1)

|

169:10 I'

exact (1)I

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exactly (9) 1

25:11;63:10,14;g

113:20;129:8;130§3,

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exam (1)l1

86:1I

EXAMINATION (I20)

7: 20 ,21. 4, 17; !

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66. 25 ,:79 16; 83. 19,

84:10;101:3;131:7;

132:11;133:5;

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146:22;159:12

examined (1)

6:14

examiner (4)

6127,9,12,15

examiners (1)

61:6

example (2)

94:4;97223

exchange (2)

65:6;88:15

excited (1)

166:21

excuse (1)

114215

excused (1)

75:17

executed (5)

16:23;30:2;78:21

84:3,5

Exhibit (21)

10:4,6;37:22,24,

25;54:4,6,7;57:1 1,13,

14;72:13;88:12;

108:9,11;1 13:7;

117:8;137:3;163:22;

168: 1 1,18

Exhibits (2)

168: 10,21

exists (1)

92:25

exit (3)

75:9,18,19

exited (3)

15:13;16:3;110:22

expect (2)

98:2,4

expectation (2)

14:2;45:2

expectations (1)

106:3

expected (3)

22:9;144:14;167:

expecting (4)

87:21;133:18;

135:6;144:4

l

DJ

Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—550011th:. .._:-_ A ...... a Fun mn‘n»

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Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Voi. II

May 9, 2917

experience (10)

25:25;29:16;35:21;

37:5,9;40:17,18,22;

45:6;95:23

experienced (7)

26:1;38:4;39:7;

56:13;58:7,18;76:12

expert (1)

40:8

expertise (1)

173:4

explain (16)

17:24;34:6,25;

53:15;54:14;55:4;

56:3;1 12:25;1 16:3;

139:16;146:18;

147:5;151:23;164:6;

168:22;173:24

explained (8)

118:3;120:23;

124:7;138zl3;

139:13;153:19;

155:23;165:8

explaining (1)

113:1

explanation (3)

112:17,19;165:17

express (1)

39:5

expressed (1)

77:7

extent (1)

55:23

extremely (1)

112:4

F

facilitating (1)

109:22

fact (l 1)

6:1;7:1;41:9;52:1;

60:24;81:8;94:9,11;

95:7,11;153:2

factored (1)

60:1

facts (1)

11:3

failed (1)

52:21

fair (5)

11:8;28:21;62:9;

81:16;131:13

fairly (1)

8] :8

Fall (2)

101:19;156:19

familiar (11)

31:21;37:19;53:22,

23;55:12;56:18;57:9;

70:21;97:1,5;134:14

familiarity (1)

55:22

family (1)

32:12

far (3)

10:23;30:1;168:22

fast (1)

166:20

father (l)

157:9

fault (6)

92:19;120:3;

129:12;152:8,8;

174:2

favor (1)

5:6

fax (1)

166:6

February (1)

8:6

Federal (7)

8:15;18:10;21:14;

64:20;168:12,14,24

fee (1)

28:14

feel (1)

141:7

feeling (2)

153:12;156:2

Fees (l)

123: 16

felt (5)

11:4;17:25;20:14;

46:19;166:16

few (8)

8:2;51:l9;71:4;

79:14;87:l;130:23;

136:10;146:2

fewer (1)

30:2

field (4)

56:14,]7;58:8,11

fields (1)

8:22

figure (2)

129:4;130210

file (1)

17:25

filed (10)

10:14;l7:19;44:5;

57:1;59:2,5;100:6;

155:19;156:8;l71:5

fill (1)

171:7

final (2)

l24:20;136:19

finalized (1)

133:23

Finance (4)

18:6;20:17;47:11;

62:15

financial (3)

140:10,12;153:15

find (14)

38:9;43:22,23;

44:13;48:8;55:1;

76:4;85:25;86:2;

90:4;107:21;147:23;

l63:15;169:8

finding (1)

43:9

Fine (5)

44:21;68:24;95:17;

128:3;162:13

finger (1)

171 :22

finish (3)

46: l7;54:23;57:2

finished (7)

75:15;78:9,10;

79:1;88:1;128:22;

165:25

fire (1)

20:6

firm (3)

62:8;69:19,23

first (14)

6:4;26:3;30:12;

39:22;43:20;46:4;

52:2;67:23;132:22;

137:23;140:2;

147:25;150:5;153:9

floor (1)

168:6

Florida (1)

102:19

focused (1)

68:8

foggy (1)

164:23

follow (1)

159:18

following (6)

105:6;136:7,8;

137:6;141:l;142:22

follows (4)

7:19;66:24;101:2;

159:11

follow—up (3)

66:10;100:l4;

159:2

forced (1)

35:4

forget (1)

161 :23

forgive (2)

29:7;173:7

form (4)

18:25;23:9;41:21;

166:2

formal (2)

16l:25;166:25

former (1)

100:6

forms (1)

17:12

forth (1)

105:3

forward (7)

11:6;16:11;27:11;

29:2;31:22;88:25;

89:4

found (2)

19:3;150:9

four (3)

87:8;109:8;173:10

fourteen (2)

149:11;150:1

foyer (1)

107:7

frame (5)

78:11;152:9;

154:14;155:15;

157214

free (2)

33:2;66:14

Friday (5)

86:15,]9,22;

134:21;136:18

friend (3)

32:13;107:13,l4

friends (1)

150:12

front (1)

112:11

frustrated (5)

109:7;1 12:5;

128:12;135:24;

149:15

full (1)

130:18

fully (3)

136:6;137:12;

140:24

fuming (1)

126:7

fundamental (1)

39:9

funding (2)

24:23;45:2

funds (10)

16:16;25:7;43:22;

44:15,16;60:3,7,9;

87:21,25

further (15)

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15:4;17:13;78:25;

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64:17

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18:10;64:20

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168:15

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101:15,17,20;

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(6) experience — hac1ked

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas,Jr. - Vol. IIHearingMay 9, 2017

Hailey (12) 129:14;141 :15; 119:25 ignorant (l) 87:14j

11:24,25;66: 1,22; 152:3 honestly (4) 162:17 initial (5)i

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hall (3) 13:12,14;74:1 hour (1) 130:14 89:7

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87:9 heavy (1) 138:2,5 163218 inquired (1) 1

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171:9 158:1 1:161:24 132;22;136:21,24; 169:9 26:3;29:14,23;

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(7) Haney — into

9/5/201 8 8:49 AMl

Hearing William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II

May 9, 2017

144:13;149:16; issuing (l) 129:16;l49:7;152:2, 37:1,5;61 :4;87:15; 158:1

154:2,10;156:24; 90:1 12,19,21 111:3;143:1 licensed (3);

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Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol; II

May 9, 2017

89:4;134:23;137:2;

155:8

looked (4)

20:13,21;109:14;

136217

looking (4)

85:24;127:7,15;

162:1

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89:16

loss (1)

20:6

lot (15)

69:7;92:1,21;

109:2;1 11:25;112:2;

135:25;148:17;

149:14;152:2;153:8;

171:13,14,17;173:23

Mmachine (4)

47:13,19;49:17,21

Maciasz (12)

5:18;21:2,4;29:5;

133:3,5;134:7;135:7,

9;145:5,7;146:20

Madam (1)

81:24

Main (l)

12:8

Mainly (3)

68:8;78:12;171:15

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5 1 :19;52:3

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12:13;100:22,25;

101:4;131:5,8;

146:23,25;159:4,7,9;

160:14

Majewskis (16)

16:3;18:22;28:2,

10;41:18;42:1,7,14;

77:20,23;78:3,6;

79:2;97:23;100:5,9

majority (1)

85:5

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23:12;137:7

malfeasance (2)

63:24;64:2

malpractice (3)

15:3;52:4,10

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11:1 1;69:25;

103:14

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36:15;49:1;53:2,8;

68:23;80:13;85:1 1;

93:7;118:7;138:20;

171 :7

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10:5;37:22,25;

54:4,7;57:1 1,14;

72:13;108:8;1 13:7;

117:8;163221;

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78:4

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80:8

minuses (1)

171 :2

minute (3)

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85:21;98:1;148:13

need (13) 1

17:25;21:9;3S:6;

53:9;60:7;75:21;

76:2;80:6;86:1;I

88:11;89:3;104:9;!

166:6i

needed (22) !

11:5;17;14;20;15;}

48:25;73:23;75:1 1,

16;84:5;112:21,23;

128:4,5;129:10;i

134:1,2,4;144:2;f

149:1,7;152:25; l

164:21,22g

needing (1)

166:8

needs (3)

60:2;62t2gl73z5

negligence (2)

63:24;64:1

neither (1)

96:20new (6)

18:5,9;20:17;I

21:13;61:19;81:9§

next (5) §

I7:10;28:8;64:14;5'

88:3;173:3I

nice (1)

155218

night (1)

157:17

Nina (4)

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9/5/201 8 8:49 AMI

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William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. IIH arin Ye gMay 9, 2917

Il3:21;129:1 1; 91:14,19,22,25;92:4; 170:12 oversight (7)

I

141:7;143:15 O 95:2;96:10;98:3; operation (1) 62:14,18,18,20;

nobody (5) 99:14;107:1,2,4,6; 133:14 63:2,23,25

27:6;50:1 1;171:21; Object (13)110:16;129:6; opinion (7) overview (4)

172:25;173:1

nobody's (1)

120:3

non—attending (1)

22:21

non-attorney (6)

46:5;57:21,22;

62:3,4,6

non-attorneys (1)

171:16

None (1)

142:11

Nonrefundability (2)

123:16;124:9

nor (2)

86:1 1;96:21

normal (2)

91:2;93:3

normally (8)

20:3;25:4;28:14;

29:17;30:24;47:8;

75:19;97:14

North (1)

49:23

notarial (1)

57:24

notaries (4)

26:5;52:4;54:13;

55:13

notary (38)

15:1;18:19,24;

20:9,16;21 :20;25:19;

26:2;28:25;52:12,18,

21;53:19;54210;55:7,

8;56:12;57:21;58:6,

12;76:1,5,8,9,15;

77:2,4,8,21;80:22;

82:19;107:22;

109:1 1;144:22;

163:16;l72:19,24;

173:5

note (5)

54:20,21;119:7;

139:18;140:15

notes (1)

54:24

Notice (1)

123:15

noticed (1)

155:3

November (2)

56:10;67:9

nowadays (1)

171 : 17

number (8)

9:21,22;52:16;

59:1 1;62: 17;63:22;

88:19;89:23

13:1 1;14:5,17;

22:1;27:21;39:2;

51:14;55:19;63:19;

65:9,12;73:25;82:1

objection (3)

6:7;22:25;56:2O

obligated (2)

39:10,11

obligation (3)

132:2;172:22,24

obligations (4)

78:7;139:17,20;

140:20

observation (1)

83:7

obtained (1)

89:1

obviously (2)

63:18;122:9

occasion (l)

32:7

occasions (1)

147:1

occupation (4)

8:7;67:14;102:9;

160225

occur (4)

17:10;29:15;30:22;

31:17

occurred (3)

11:4;12:8;26:8

occurring (1)

18:4

occurs (1)

26:4

October (2)

37:14;155:13

odd (1)

22:22

off (7)

28:16;36:15;37:2;

100:19;106:16;

134:20;150:4

offered (2)

13:14;40:8

offering (2)

82:13,18

office (76)

9:18;12:8,10,15;

15:22;17:15;18:15,

17;21:21;23:13;

34:16,24;44:12,21,

24;45:20;47:1,7;

49:16,25;50:3,5,10,

16,23;51:3,4;61:17,

18,19;65:25;66:3;

69:16;72:8;74:10,12,

17;76:24;77:18;79:3,

6;84:19;85:4;88:24;

133:12,19;144:13;

148:2,9,10,13;154:4,

6,16,20,24;155:17;

162:25;163:1,3,8

officers (4)

34:6,23;38:14;

48:10

office’s (1)

99:15

official (1)

39:3

officiated (1)

42:22

officiating (2)

1922;22z9

often (8)

9:16;13:19;26:1;

28:25;48:17,24,25;

98:10

Ohio (2)

102:19;105:5

omissions (2)

52:12;1 15:15

Omissions/Compliance (1)

115:12

once (6)

11:16;20:17;88:1;

89:1;90:23;1 1 1:8

one (46)

17:3;26:20;27:8;

29:9;31:6,23;36:1 1,

23;49:6;50:19;53:18;

56:21;58:24;61:14,

20;7l:15;85:5;89:17,

18,22;92:7;104:21;

111:14,15;116:14;

120:22;121:15;

122:8,11,2l;126:20;

132:10,19;134:8;

135:7;136:22;137:1;

141:10;145:5;

147:25;150:23;

153:1 1;165:2,2,20;

171223

ones (1)

170:23

on—line (4)

127:23;162:10;

164:20;166:23

only (21)

27:8;34:14;36:11;

52:23;53:18;54:14;

60:21;61:14;65:2,25;

84:16;1 15:14,16;

157:7;158:15;162:7;

171:9,11,23;172:21;

173:25

open (3)

63:13;65:17;

18:24;34:20;35:1;

39:3;55:24;56:22;

65:10

opposition (1)

168:15

order (2)

6:3;89z23

ordinary (1)

20:11

original (5)

19:6;24:3;77:8;

104:18;147:11

originally (2)

107:15;144:6

others (1)

80:5

otherwise (1)

57:25

ours (1)

82:14

out (56)

6:2;13:8;14:11,23,

24;16:22;17:11;

22:16;31:14;33:23;

42:8;43:9,16,22,23;

44:1,13;55:1;76:4;

85:25;86:3,9;91:7;

92:18;103:24;

107:21;109:10;

110:10;124:10;

126:2;128:20;129:4;

130:10;131:2;

133:11;135:25;

137:15;141:22;

142:6;147:23;150:2;

151:20,21,21;152:14,

19;153:10;155:3;

157:1,11,13;159:25;

162:2;163:9,1 1,15

out—of-state (1)

19:24

outset (1)

80:22

outside (3)

43:15;145:18;

166:13

over (17)

6:9;49:11;64:23;

77:8;84:4;1 1 1 :7;

117:5;118:4;l31:17,

22;132:5;136:24;

137:7;138:15;167:8;

169:5;170:1

overhear (l)

83:7

overnighting (1)

19:8

Overruled (1)

28:4

116:2;131:10,15; 9

132:16g

owed (1)

139:20

own (25)

30:23;31:15;34:2;:

35:12,15;36:6,8,16;

41:11;42;11;47:1;_!

76;24;77:18;92:23j;

93 : 14;97:4,1 1,25;:

98:13;99:3;136:24;

145:12,21;151:10;-'

167:5i

owned (2)g

105:14;131:1 !

owner's (1)

90:1

ownership (1)

130:18

P

P&S (1)

151:24package (3)

i

41:21;47:17;98:16

packet (1)

137:4pad (1)

171:23

mwmm10:16,17;53:14;

I

57:17;72:16,25;73:3;

88:15,18;113:9;

114:13,15;115:9;:

116;1,6,13,16;i

117:10,17,19;118:!10,

17,21;119:5,11;i

120:4,11,25;121:8,

18;122:13,22;i

123:13;124:1 1,20,121;

125:15;126:10,20;

132:7

pages (5)

53;14;116:11,15;1

126:24;137:3

Pagliarini (56) i

7:9,11,16,21;21:1!;

25:24;32:7;33:2;!

34:11;36:2;38:2,11,

24;39:3;45:4,24;1

46:7,18;47:20;48:312;

50:21 ;54:1 1,20;55:2,

19;56:6,18,22,25;‘

60:6;63:14,17;64::25;

65:10,24;66:11,13;

69:15,22;75:4;77é1,

13;81:18;82:6;84:'19;

91 :6;94:4,25;107:§17,

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5w.

Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

l

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II

May 9, 2917

17;130:7;155:3,16;

156:20;158:23;

166:14

Pagliarini's (4)

107:2;144:13;

154:16;162:25

paid (1)

26:16

painful (1)

104:8

mmun132:4

paperwork (7)

34:6;130:25;143:9;

144:1;162:8,22;

163:20

Paplauskas (80)

5:9,10,1 1;6:13;8:2;

11:12,12,15;12:14;

13;8;14:25;16:2,7;

17:15;18:2;19:4;

21:18;22:19;24:1;

27:7;29:1;42:2,21;

44:2;45:17;47:2,14;

52:5;60:18;63:4;

64:4;66:2;67:5;70:1,

2,4;73:20;76:5;77:1,

20;78:24;79:3,6;

80:18;81:2;83:4;

88:5;98:3;101:10;

103:15,15;107:16,22;

108:23;111:11;

112:16;113:17;

115:1,21;116:21;

117:2];118:25;

119:16;121:12;

122:5;123:9,24;

125:3,24;132:5;

137:23;138:8;

139:22;163:13,16;

165:1;166:5;168:6,9;

172:14Paplauskas's (l)

159:19

paraphrased (1)

131:16

part (8)

92:7;98:6;110:7,

19;] 12:22;126:1;

130:8;141:16

particular (14)

8:22;11:21;43:4;

56:14;57:16;58:8;

68:4;71:8,15;94:19;

114:7;1 15:6;117:1;

126:4

particularly (1)

53:5

parties (4)

31:11;68:14;91:21,

22partner (1)

26:11

party (3)

9:8;22:21;70:15

passed (l)

161 :4

past (4)

105:21;107:7;

144:7;167:6

pattern (l)

41:9

pay (2)

152:24;173: 16

payment (4)

118:5;131225;

153:17,24

peered (1)

37:15

penalty (4)

52:22,25;55:5;

172:17

pending (2)

6:21;56:21

Pennsylvania (5)

157:7,9,13;160:20;

167:10

people (3)

65:25;83:3;173:23

per (2)

69:1,2

percent (6)

93:10,ll,12,19;

131:21;162:9

percentage (1)

93:10

performed (4)

40:17;53:1 1;

156:10,13

performing (1)

25:25

Perhaps (3)

99:2;134:1 l;137:9

period (1)

141 :10

person (7)

19:17;31:24;61:15;

62:7;109:22;133:24;

147:18

personal (3)

107:14;111:6;

164:14- Personally (2)

3 1 :25; 1 67:3

person's (1)

164: 15

perspectives (2)

169:25;171:1

PERUSES (5)

39:1;54:8,18;

57:19;72: 1 9

philosophical (1)

26:20

phone (3)

105:2,4;l 17:6

physical (3)

99:16;143:4,5

physically (5)

13:22;14:2;129:22;

134:19;154:3

Piccirilli (71)

5:8,8;6:6,10;7:6;

8:1;13:1 1;14:4,10,

17;22:1,3,25;27:20;

33:1,3;37:21;38:8,10,

17,21;39:6,22;40:2,

11;41:3,6;42:5;

47:23;48:2,3,8;

49:10;54:3;56:5,20;

57:5,10,17;58:3,22;

59:10;63:20;65: 14,

20;66:7,16;67:5;

70:8,12;73:25;81:24;

84:9,10;94:20;95:15,

20;100:1 1;101:9;

127:8;146:21,22;

156:9,14;158:25;

159:19,23;167:20;

168:6,8;174:8

pick (8)

36:1.0,15,22,25;

142:19;150:10;

151:10;155:16

picked (2)

37:2;143113

picks (1)

36:24

picture (1)

19:15

piece (2)

31:25;65:2

place (22)

9:24;12:7,16;15:9;

18:6,14;47:12;69:10;

71:23;74:9,10,18;

103:1,18;106:25;

107:5;148:5,6;161:9;

162:24;163:1;167:11

plan (2)

158:10;160:2

planned (1)

152:23

planning (1)

9:3

please (30)

7:14;15:1;22:4;

38:22;41:4;42:5;

48:2,9,12,14;49:10,

11;54: 1 ,6;56:3;57:4,

13;59:7;66:20;70:1 1;

88:25;89:2;95:15;

100:23;117:10;

118:10;119:5;120:4,

25;121:18

pluses (1)

171:2

PM (6)

5:1;100:20,20;

167:25,25;174:12

point (37)

14:22;15:8;16:8;

18:1 1;27:20;44:25;

65:15;73:22;75:24;

76:4;77:5;78:23;

81:1,5,9,16;84:4,25;

89:4;95:22;97:20;

106:14;107:21;

114:10;1 19:23;

125:13;126:7;

128:12;130:2;136:3;

137:17;144:19;

152:12,25;163:15;

165:13;173:18

policies (1)

18:9

policy (9)

19:19;30:10,17;

32:14,17;42:20,24;

90:1,7

polite (2)

38:15,]9

Polyurethane (1)

102213

ponder (1)

52:16

pontificate (1)

56:7

pontificating (2)

47:21,25

poor (1)

173:8

portion (2)

78:1;88:3

position (3)

58:20;69:16;

168:20

positive (1)

127:21

possession (3)

16:4;130:14;

137: 13

possibility (1)

51 :7

possible (1)

134:24

post—closing (1)

21:23

potential (1)

39:11

potentially (1)

170:7

power (6)

54:14;80:4,15;

134:12,15;135:3

Practice (48)

5:5;7:13;8:20,22;

13:19;19:24;29:6;

39:14;40:13,19,24;

44:12;45:19;46:1,9;

5 1:9;56:7,23;58:1;

60:21,24;67:19,25;

68:4;85:16;91:2;

92:1;93:3,5;94:21,5

22;95:7,18,23;96:19;

97:5,14,18;98:9; I

99:1 1,12,15;160:23;

169:12,18;170:6,1Z6;

172:14 -

practiced (2) ;

8: 17;67:22 5

practicing (6)

I

34:12,19;35;1;

58:13;84:13,17

practitioner (1)

64: 13

pre—closing (1)

104: 14

preclude (2)

56: 12;58:6

prefer (1)

75:2;

prepare (15)!

13:20;14:1;17:7,,

l3;3l:7;34:23;54:15;

71 :25;72:3;92:22;I

93;1;94:2,6,12;96§:1

prepared (6)l

11:24;72:10;91:13;

93:24;97:15;154:15

prepares (5)

34:24;35:12;93:16,

20;95:3 |

preparing (3)l

11:22;95:9;151:24

prepayment (3)

52:22,25;55:5 l

present (27)

12:21,24;21:9;I

34:17;37:11;42:25;

70:4;71 :22;74:20§

75:4;77:19;107:18;

110:11;111:13,14!;

113:17;123:9;133::9,

20,21;134:19;135:110,

13,19;147;14;g

169:23;170:10i

presentation (2)i

6: 1 1 ;169:19j

presentations (1) i

170:24|

presented (20)'

111:8;1 15:2,22;

117:22;1 19:1,17;!

120:16;122:4;123!:6;

125:8,25;126:16;

131:9,11;132:13,16;

160:11;164:4;!

165:10;169:9

presenting (1)

168:4

Presumably (2)

62:16;63:6

pretty (9)g

80:17;102:17;'

108:20;111:19;

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(11) Pagliarini's — prfetty

xv.

\-

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

Hearing William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - V01. II

May 9, 2917

112:12;131:10; 105:13,21;145:8, 80:22;172:19 169:3 12:13;159:9

151:5;157:20;168:19 16;146:2;147:2,22; punishment (1) readily (1) recall (47)E

previous (3) 149:21;150:23; 170:5 60:3 5:4,20,23;6:22;

155:7;162:20; 151:7;162:20;l73:10 purchase (4) reading (3) 9:25;10:2;12: 10;f

165:7 property (31) 33:9;52:19;86:4; 39:4;57:20;131: 13 40:3;69:10;70:18,20;

previously (7) 9:4;15:5;17:10; 133224 ready (1) 71:17;72:10;74:23;

10:5;67:12;69:7; 23:23;31:5;52:I9; purchased (3) 152:9 77:22;79:25;83:14;

72:13;80:9;1 13:6; 78:16;79:10;88:21; 103:12;145:15; Real (48) 23;88:7;103:2;10436,

117:7 103:6,24;111:6; 167:5 8:23,24;9:1,6,24; 14;106:18;107:9;

primarily (1) 126:2;127:4;130:14, purchases (2) 21:7,]O;29:6,24; 108:23;109:1,12;I

62:23 19;139:12;145:15; 33:7,7 30:15;33:6,12;34:12; 110:7,1 1,18,22;

primary (5) 147:3;149:13;150:3, purchasing (1) 35:9,18;36:4,20; 111:22;1 12:16; I

62:25;103:9,12; 6,25;152:12;154:2; 31:4 38:4;39:7;40:5,13, 114:7;1 15:24;1 18:1;

151:16;157:23 157:1,15,19;161:14; purpose (3) 24;65:18;68:5,7,15; 119:21;121:6;12454;

prior (23) 162:1,3 40:1;62:25;73: 12 69:9;92:2,8;93:4,7; 126:4;127:22;

12:5;43:4;71:18; proposed (2) purposes (1) 94:23;102:22; 155:10;161:10,17,19;

73:5,9;86:8;88:8; 168:15;170:25 129:5 105:12;150:10; 162:13;165:21 '

103:18,21;104:4,1 1; proposing (1) push (1) 156:18;161 :2; Receipt (1)

106:7,18;147:1,2; 170:19 152:1 168:16;169:6,12,18, 122:25

149:14,24;150:1,23; proration (1) pushed (1) 25;170:16;171:14; receive (4)

153:19;161:17,20; 17:8 106:16 172:3;173:2,12,22 16:15;25:6;78:14;;

162:14 prosecute (1) put (7) realize (2) 133:241

private (2) 70:11 18:13;51:20;70:13; 157:21 ;166:3 received (5) 5

8;20;67:25 prosecuting (1) 77:1 1;1 1 1 :6;1 12:10; realized (1) 19:13;137:4;139:2,

pro (1) 5:21 137111 77:20 10;144:1i

168225 prosecution (1) putting (1) really (20) recent (1) |

probably (8) : 18:10 30:22;35:5;50:22; 169:6 ,l

9:19;12:12;24:16; prospective (1) 75:5;80:13;85:12; recently (1)

‘30:24;61:2;90:5; 97:3 Q 86:12;109:1;112:18; 56:10I

96:25;169:5 protecting (1) 122:21;138:4;156:3; RECESS (2)

Iproblem (4) 18:17 qualified (4) 162:17;164:23; 100:20;167:25

31:14;144:23,24; Protection (4) 40:4;56:13;58:7,17 165:8;170:2;172:17; recipient (1)

156:15 18:7;20:18;47:11; quick (3) 173:18,19,21 37:3

problems (3) 62:15 100:18;108:20; Realtor (26) recognize (26)i

28:17;136:22; protocols (1) 156218 12:12;15:6;27:9; 10:11,13;11:17,19;

152:3 18:13 quit (1) 66:2;74:14;80:4,14; 70:6;72:21,23;

proceed (6) prove (1) 139:8 82:25;85:19;89:15; 108:13,15;113:11;

6:2;38:22;41:4,14; 13:14 quitclaim (1) 107:11;134:6; 114:20;115:13;I

134:13;165:1 provide (13) 147:7 135:10,11,13;150:14, 116:9;117:15;i

proceeding (3) 17:1;29:17;55:20; quite (1) 17,19;151:23;154:8, 118:15;119:9;120::9;

7:12;169:16,17 71:1;73:19;86:11; 45:5 9,18,22;161:22; 121:23;122:18; 2

proceedings (1) 90:6;106:5;116:21; 163:10;166:17 123:18;124:16;

5:4 163:18;164:6; R Realtors (1) 125:20;127:1,3;I

proceeds (6) 165:16;I72:22 68:10 163:22,25'

24:21,25;78:15; provided (10) raise (1) Realtor's (3) recollection (9)

87:18;133:24;149:2 86:7;88:16;89:14; 90:9 49:16;107:12; 6:20;16:18;22:8;

process (9) 98:7;108:18;121:12; raised (2) 135216 40:3;42:14;75:2;

6:16;37:4;41:23; 123:25;125:2; 32:12;53:6 reason (6) 89:7;136:12;142:8

68:11;104:15; 145:23;165:14 ran (1) 78:21;82:11; recollections (2)i

105:24;137:22; Providence (2) 156124 115:16;134:16,25; 128:16,19

164:20;166:23 49:23;50:3 rare (1) 169215 recollects (1) 1

profession (2) province (1) 29:23 reasonable (2) 43:14I

18:18;58:8 56:1 rate (3) 52:16;65:17 recommend (2)‘

professional (3) provision (1) 19:1;27:18;153:22 reasonably (1) 174:1,3I:

56:14;1 66:16,18 57:9 rather (1) 63:13 record (25)i

promissory (5) proximity (1) 91:22 reasoned (1) 5:7;7: 15;16:8,19;:

54:20,21,24; 61 :23 react (3) 169:24 24:1 8;25:3;28:22;i

139:18;140:15 public (20) 76:7;108:3;164:11 reasoning (1) 49:13;60:4,22,25;§

promulgated (1) 5:18;15:1;18:19; read (14) 56:3 61:12;62:6;65:7;5

56:10 ~ 20:16;26:5;28:25; 41:17;48:14,15; reasons (4) 66:21;77:9,12;86:20,

properly (1) 49:18;52:4,12,18; 54:25;55:16;1 11:16; 27:16,19;47:9; 21;87:1 1;100:19,22,

52:20 53:19;54:10,13;55:7, 112:10,13,13;140:21; 152:6 24;159:8;168:2

properties (12) 8;56:12;57:21;58:6; 156:1;165:5,1 1; Rebecca (2) recorded (6)

R-‘EEn—EJ-Scx-igm’a‘i Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-55001 15 Phenix Avenue. Cranston. RI 02920 www.alliedcourtreporters.com

(12) previous — recorfled

V.

i.“Azw/

Hearing

9/57261 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II

May 9, 2017

20:7;23:5;59:12,

20;60:20;78: 12

recorders (1)

99: 1 9

recording (15)

16:12;19:4,5,11;

23:6;50:3;60: 1 0,1 1;

61:8,16,17;73:24;

74:2;99:16,17

recordings (1)

6 1 :23

records (1)

61:14

recourse (1)

52: 1 7

Redfin (1)

150:9

redo (1)

28:13

redraft (1)

28: 1 5

redrafting (1)

28: 14

RE-EXAMINATION (5)

26:9;29:5;32:6;

134:10;135:9

refer (3)

58:24;59: 1,4

refi (1)

33:13

refinance (2)

33 : 1 5;53:5

refinancing (1)

172:4

refresh (3)

6:19g89z6; 136: 12

refresher (1)

88: 11

Refreshing (1)

40:2

refusal (1)

63: 1 5

regard (9)

40:5;93t4g94223;

95: 1 6;99:16;1 06:3;

153:2,15;169:12

regarding (10)

40:12,23,24;43:3;

83:7;95:22;1 1 8:2;

124:4;162:15;168:16

regards (1)

89:5

Regional (2)

101:18;102:12

regular (2)

40:24;72:7

regulate (2)

171 :2, 12

regulated (1)

171 : 15

regulation (1)

173:22

regulations (2)

21:14;172:20

regulatory (1)

64:23

reiterate (1)

99:2

reiterating (2)

99:8;168:19

rejected (1)

134:6

related (3)

54:24;56:16;58:10

relates (1)

9:23

relation (1)

85:25

relationship (3)

62:7;63:5,8

relationships (1)

36:17

relatively (1)

17:21

relayed (1)

25:20

release (1)

25:3

relevance (1)

14:5

remainder (2)

15:21;77:16

remember (127)

7:6;71:6,9,10,1 1,

13,21,24;78:17;80:3,

23,24;91 : 12,24;

104:21;105:4;

106:10,12,16;107:12;

108:20;109:9,20;

110:13,15,21,23;

111:10,20;1 12:1,2,4,

6,9;1 13:1,2,20;1 14:9,

9;] 15:6,14;116: 1,14;

117:1,23;118:6,7;

119:2,18;120:21,22,

23;122:8,10,21;

123:7;124:6,9,17;

125:10,12;127:14,20;

128:1,2,10;129:3,8;

130:3,5,7;131:17,19;

132:6,21;133:10,14;

134:1,5,15,21;135:2,

21,22,23;136:18;

137:14;138:3,6,14,

14,20,21 ,24,25;

139:7,9,15,20,23;

140:3,6,24;141:14,

18;142:10,22;144:1,

16;147:8,16;148:7;

149:6,18,19,20,21;

151:9,12,14;152:10;

154:17,18,20;155:2;

156:3;166:8

remembered (1)

165:7

remembering (2)

71:3;135:4

reminds (1)

39:24

remodel (2)

158:5,7

remodeled (1)

103:10

remodeling (1)

158:20

remove (3)

15:1;82:20,22

render (1)

55:23

rendering (1)

57:25

Renee (1)

88:20

rented (1)

157: 8

reopening (1)

repeat (1)

15: 23

rephrase (1)

14:18

reply (1)

55:21

reports (l)

169:4

represent (17)

15:2;20:3;26:16;

27:4;29:10;30:25;

31:1;32:1;70:15;

72:4;95;6,9;96:10,11,

13,15;146:15

representation (1)

105 : 1 0

representations (l)

140: 17

representative (4)

102: 10,12;104:25;

129:1

represented (l 6)

29: 1 1;30:1 8;31:1 8,

22;41:24;51 :5;68:19;

70:17;73:15;85:6;

93:9;95:2;96:2;

146: 15;]47124;

155224

representing (33)

13:25;27:23;31:1 l;

43:24;44:10;45:6;

46:10,21;70:18;

74:14;75:22;85:17,

19;90:2, 14,25;94: 1 ,5,

13,14;95:2,4;96:3,6,

12;98:9;103:22;

144:15;148:11;

158:24;161:19,20;

167:1

represents (3)

35:13;96:7,7

request (4)

65:10;90:4;121:2,

20requested (l)

24:23

require (1)

29:20

required (4)

21 :6;36:5;52:3;

127: 12

requirement (5)

64:19;97: 1,6,6,10

requires (1)

64:9

requiring (1)

57:24

requisite (1)

40:22

reread (2)

5 1 :24,25

rescission (1)

53:7

residence (3)

103:12;151:16;

157:23

Residency (2)

17:6;72:6

residential (6)

9:2;33:6;35: 18;

68:8;93:7;120:6

resolve (1)

172:11

respect (7)

38:17;55:20;94:18;

105:10;126:5;

132:12;153:8

respectful (2)

38: 1 5;48:10

respectfully (1)

38:7

respond (1)

65:11

response (2)

19:12,13

responsibility (1)

45:23

responsible (4)

43:9;142t21;

143:16;154:13

rest (2)

76:22;82:7

Restaurant (2)

156:23,23

rested (1)

6: 12

restricting (1)

168: 16

restrictions (1)

158:6

resuming (1)

168:2

Return (2)

121:21;122:7

returns (1)

122:12

reverse (1)

89: 23review (4)

38: 1 ,39:;23 156: 11

14

reviewed (4)

12:1;106:19; .

109:12;127:241

reviewing (2)=

6: 22; 38. 23

Rhode (51)

8: 9, 17, l8, 19: 20;

20. 12, 19;24: 20, .

29:19;30:16;32:14;

34:13;37:17;40:13,

25;:41 12;:474,:51 9;

53:22; 55.,4 13, 59. 14,

60. 21 ,;24 63:23 ,64. 8,

12, 15 65. 8; 67. 16,22;

72: 5 ,84: 14, 94: 22,

95:5,7,18;97:2,7;

98:16;103:7;145:18;

150:17;151:2;i

157: 25, 161. 15,I

168. 13, 169: 18 ,21,

170: 13, 173. 6, 11|rid (1)

Ii

153213|

Right (59) |

23 17, 24 5 10, l

25' 19' 26. 13; 32. 14,

36. 6; 38. 12;41. 10,20;

42:11,13;45:12;

46:23;53:6;55:9;

63:8;64:21;75:3;

79:23;81:14;83:1;-

86:20,22;87:2;90:

97:3,11,16,22,25;

98:5,13;99:25;

107:25;108:1;l

116:12;118:20; 1

130:16,17;131:1;

132:24;134:20; .

135:14;138:9;

141:18,21,25;l42:3

7;148:18,21;151:10;

153:20;163:3,8;

170:14;172:21;174:4

rights (2)

140:20;153:2

ringing (1)

125:10

River (1)

101: 19

Road (4)

12: 9, 103. 7, 157' 12,

161' 15

Robbins (4)

107: 13, 150. 11, 12:;

161:22role (3)

11: 22' 83. 24' 89. 11

v00

Rifin-U~Scrig}%® Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—55001 1: thniv Avpnnp. Prangtnn. RI 02020 www.alliedcourtrenorters.com

(13) recorders — role

f.

9/57201 8 8:49AM'William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. IIHearing

May 9, 2017

rolling (1) 100:13,l7,21;131:6, 155:18;166:15 79:17 15;]10:2;112:21,23;

137:14 7;132:8;134:8,10; seems (3) series (4) 113:4,23;1 14:5,22';

room (60) 135:18;145:3;159:3, 51:13;81:2;164:22 28:16;67:2;101:6; 115:4,17;116:24;

12:17,19,22,24; 6;167:16,22;168:1; select (2) 159:16 117:24;119:3,19;Q

13:3,10;14:12;15:2,5, 174:6,10 41:11;104:16 seriously (2) 120:19;121:16,25;

7,14,19,24;16:3;18:3; save (1) selecting (3) 63:16;173:19 123:1 l;124:2;127:9,

22:17;26:12,18,24; 65:20 56:15;57:23;58:9 seriousness (1) 13,14;128:5,8;=

27:8,9,24;42:16;43:1, saw (7) selection (1) 169:3 131:15;134:2,2,4;2

17;74:l9,20,24;75:4, 125:6,11;127:18; 37:3 ServiceLink (17) 157:21;164:7;i

6,6,9,14,18,19,20; 139:25;140:1; seller (63) 62:12;70:22,24; 172:15,24

76:17,19,20;77:14; 156:21,22 9:10;12:2;14:1; 71:7,18,21;88:16; signature (23);

79:21,24;81:17;82:7; saying (15) 17:6,7;20:3,4,8; 89:8,13;90:23; 10:19;21:21;64:6;5

83:3,21,25;87:20,23;

91:9;107:8,9,18;

110:10,22;160:8;

163:4;171 21,23;

172:25

rose—colored (1)

153:21

rugs (1)

137:15

rule (1)

170219

rules (8)

18:5,21;19:18,25;

20:17;30:16;47:12;

49:14

ruling (1)

22:3

run (7)

26:5;47:16;59:21;

81:9;82:12;143:19,

22runner (3)

61:25;63:7,25

running (1)

156:25

S

sale (6)

33:13;79:9;93:8;

139:5;147:6;150:6

sales (3)

86:5;102:10,12

same (19)

9:11;18:21;19:25;

25:5;63:9,10,14;

78:13;87:5;109:4;

118:19;146:3,5,10,

10;]57:5;159:24;

171:3,7

SAUNDERS (58)

5:2,3,12;6:8,19;

7:10,11;13:17;14:13;

22:5;23:2;25:23;

28:4;32:6,20;38:13,

20;39:20,25;40:7;

41:2,13,16;42:4;48:1,

7;49:9;56:2,19;57:7;

59:6;65:19;66:9,19;

70:10;74:4;82:3;

83:17,19;84:7;95:14;

16:7;17:22;51:4;

52:23;53:2;93:13;

98:12;109:20;

138:11;143:9;

144:15;147:16;

151:12;154:12;166:5

scenario (1)

51:13

schedule (6)

43:7;45:10;46:1,8,

24;133:16

scheduled (2)

12:6;46225

scheduling (3)

44:20;46:15,20

school (9)

101:15,17,19,21,

24;102:5;160:16,18,

21

screen (1)

171 :25

screwed (3)

129:11;143:16;

158222

scrutiny (1)18:8

seasoned (1)

33:12

second (3)

10:9;34:15;72:25

Secretary (5)

55:15;56:9;58:25;

66:3,5

section (8)

56:1 1,1 1;57:15,17,

20;58:1,3,5

sections (1)

55:1

secure (5)

47:13;49:l7;51:13;

71 :2;73:8

securing (1)

52:19

security (1)

18:13

seeing (4)

125:10;127:20;

140:3,7

seem (2)

38:2;84:20

seemed (2)

24:23;26:16,17;

29:11;30:19,21,23;

32:4,8;33:19;35:15;

41:24;44:10,15,17,

22;45:7;51:18;59:19,

19;60:14;65:1,1;

68:17;72:4,9;73:15;

80:7;84:3;85:6,17;

86:7,9,25;88:24;

90:2;92:10;93:9,17,

20,24;94:1,6,1 1;95:1,

4,6,8,11;96:13,21,24;

129:1;152:2;153:5

sellers (25)

23:10;68:9;70:17;

73:9,13;74:14;75:17,

22,23;80:8;87:14,17;

90:6;93:l3;96:1;

109:5;111:1,2;112:5;

113:21;114:12;

129:17;130:10;

133:8,20

seller's (24)

12:1,4;13:20;14:6;

16:4;24:20,25;31:6;

45:1,13;47:1;50:2;

76:22;85:23;86:6;

92:21;96:14,20;

107:2;12921;135:10,

16;154:8,22

selling (1)

31:25

Senator (1)

156:25

send (2)

25:2;83:11

sending (4)

24:1,6;43:21;

122:11

sense (1)

137:7

sent (6)

11:9;16:9,17;

22:19;121:14;125:5

sentence (1)

131222

separate (2)

1313;35:19

September (2)

69:6;155:12

sequence (1)

104:12,16;106:8,1 1;

l44:l6,18;148:7

ServiceLink’s (1)

89:11

serving (1)

21:19

set (8)

86:4;106:1 l;133:2;

143:2;145:4;148:3;

150:15;161:25

sets (1)

28:16

setting (1)

144:17

settlement (16)

22:13,17,22;23:10;

24:22;29:21;45:18;

53:3;55;6;64:5,6,9,

18;65:7;96:16;

117: 12

sewer (1)

92:13

Sheet (1)

126:12

short (3)

37:18;167:24;

168:2

shortly (1)

16:17

show (3)

50:17,20;88:12

showed (5)

24:15;46:5;47:1;

51:10:107216

showing (2)

24:1 1;108:11

shown (1)

128:4

shows (3)

18:19;50:22;137:4

side (13)

12:4;13:20;31:6;

46: 12;74: 16;75:10,

23;76:22;81:14;84:6;

88:2,24;92:25

sides (7)

30:25;31:2,3,14,17,

22;93:1

sign (38)

18:25;23:1 1;54:21;

74:15;80:14;98:12,

73:2;108:21;113:1is,

24;114:24;115:19§

116:16,18;117:19;'

118:21;1 19:12;_

120:12;121:8;122§2;

123:2,20;124:23;i

127:5,16;164:9

signatures (3) i

73:8;84:3;125:14:

signed (35) i

19:6;22:18,20;

23:8,10,10;41:22;

42:1;60:14;64:10;

75:16;80:1,9,14;l

98:17,21,25;109:1'7,

24;113:25;114:1;'

117:25;122:19;

129:10,19,21,23;

132:13;139:19,25

142:11;154:12;

165:24;166:10;

168:24

significantly (1)

30:4

signing (15) .

12:25;64:17;75:16;

76:1;77:23;88:2;

111:20,25;122:10

125:12;132:4;

137:25;154:4;

164:25;171:22

similar (1)

92:5

simpler (1)

30:5

single (2)

63:12;85:5

sit (1)

65:5

sitting (1)

173:3

situation (8)

34:8,11;35:25;

36:3;81:10;82:14,21;

93:23 i

six (1)

142:4

skimmed (1)

112:15

skimming (1)

131:19

MEH—Uécsigéfi9 Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-550011C phpniv Avpnnp. Prnnsfnn. RI 0207.0 www.2"iedcmlrh‘ennrters.c0m

(14) rolling — skimniing

.

."Err!"

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Voi. IIHearingMay 9, 2917

sleep (1) specifically (9) State's (1) 111:3;1 13:1; 5:14,17;166:12;

137:16 74:23;78:17;91:24; 58:25 130:15;135:25; 171: 7; 173224

sleeping (2) 94:12;118:1;147:13, statues (1) 137:1 1;139:21; talk (4)I

137:17;154:11 16;151:9;162:13 56:4 140:12;153:12; 49: 11 ,74. 6, 106:23;

small (2) specification (l) status (2) 154:10 153: 5

107:6;142z8 132:18 80:23;83:8 stupidity (1) talking (17)

smattering (1) specifics (2) statute (17) 173:15 17. 21 24: 8; 36: 1,2;

173:25 120:24;132:1 38:1,24;39:4,8,18; subject (9) 45. 19 61: 18,71: 5;,i

smell (1) speculative (2) 40:20;41:7,9,17; 18:20,21;19:18; 85: 8 ,94: 17,20;'

137:15 2721,25 53:24;54:2,13,16,25; 20:20;62:14;63:22, 131: 20, 134: 15,

snarky (1) spend (1) 55:8,10;64:16 25;88:21;172:17 135:2,24, 149. 9 ,9, i

58:4 35:5 statutes (3) subsequent (1) 155. 3

software (1) spent (1) 54:1;55:21;172:20 168:18 tax (8)

18:12 18:16 statutory (1) substance (1) 9: 4; 17: 11, 121: 21;

sold (l) split (2) 97:9 11:7 122. 6, 12; 126' 2, 12'

155:14 89:25;90:1 stay (7) such-and-such (1) 153.22i

sole (1) spoke (1) 15:19;75:6,19,22; 50:15 taxes (10)

162:6 76:20 95:19;152:24;157:10 sue (1) 17:8;92:8,12;i

somebody (6) spoken (1) stayed (1) 92:19 119:24;120:2;126§5,

22:20;30:1‘0;37:2; 105:23 157:15 suggest (3) 9;153:18,25;167:112

50:1;65:6;171:25 staff (4) stenographer (1) 13:13;40:21; Taxpayer (1)I

someone (10) 5:21;26:6;168:3; 49:12 173:19 121:3 I

34:23;35:3;40: 16; 169:4 step (3) Suite (1) Technical (1)

47:7;58:12,15; stage (1) 31:14;77:10; 12:9 101:18

104:23;134:15; 157:6 159:25 super (1) Technically (3)

161:5;172223 stamped (1) steps (1) 138:7 22:13,24;76:21

sometime (1) 88:13 104:8 supposed (1) Ted (2)

143:24 standards (2) sticking (1) 82: 15 168:24;169:1

sometimes (4) 55:12;56:8 136:25 Supreme (5) telling (3)

86:24;87:6,7;93:1 Staples (1) sticks (2) 8:15;63:24;64:1; 144:1;151:9;172:1

somewhat (l) 47:16 124:10;126:2 171:6;174:3 tells (1)

81:6 Starbucks (1) still (6) Sure (31) 36:4

Somewhere (2) 171:24 23:22;81:8;119:23; 7:10;23:19,25; Ten (1)

119:25;151:19 start (7) 134:2,3;144:19 24:9;33:22;35:2; 49:6

soon (3) 7:8;14:21;19:14, stipulate (1) 36:19;38:25;39:19; tendered (2)

75:10;80:17; 23;20:1;143:22; 160:9 55:16;59:22;61:10, 16:14;20:5

129:16 158:19 stood (1) 24;65:4;68:8;75:5; term (1)

sooner (1) started (4) 129:23 78:13;80:8;81:21; 124:9

122:7 13:6,7;20:18;130:5 stop (3) 84:24;85:2;87:16; terms (2)

sophisticated (1) Starting (2) 16:20;47:20; 93:2;98:19;108:8; 17:21;1 13:13

30:12 5:16;158:21 158:22 162:11;163:21; territory (2)

sophistication (2) starts (1) Strachman (13) l64:7;165:20;169:4; 102: 14,1 6

32:4,5 161:24 5:19;6:15;21:16, 172:4 test (2)

sore (1) state (22) 17;25:22;26:9;28:18; surprise (4) 28:23;161 :4

128:21 7:14;8:13;20:12, 70:14;137:20,21; 47:3;52:9,13; testified (11)

sorry (7) 19;29:19;30:16; 144:25;160:5;167:21 136223 39:13;42:25;46:4;

80:24;89:17,18; 34: 12;37:17;40:22; straight (2) surprised (2) 51:2,1 8;83:6;84:1i9;

110:13;115:8; 41:11;55:4,13,15; 107:6;109:10 76:11;81:6 94:4;95:1;131:9;

116:18;162: 12 56:9;67:20;127:1 1; straight—away (1) swath (1) 139:25

sort (4) 161:6;168:17; 129:13 102:20 testifies (4)

30:2;3 1 :9;55:24; 169:20;170:7,18,21 stretch (1) swear (1) 7: 19;66:24;101:2

164217 stated (4) 62:21 154:18 159:11

sound (1) 91:25;108:17; stricken (2) swept (2) testify (3)

134:14 131:24;143:15 40:14;41:1 19:16,21 6:4,24;173:1

sounds (2) statement (15) strike (1) sworn (5) testifying (1)

63:10;148:21 23:1,14;36:13; 96:6 7:18;66:23;101:1; 40' 16:

spans (2) 51:14;52:15;63:19; strong (1) 141:14;159:10 testimony (9) i

116:11;126:24 64:5,10,18;65:8,20; 168:15 synopsis (1) 5'25'21. 24',:40 12,:

speaking (3) 114:18;117:12; strongly (1) 156:1 23' 55. 2' 82. 5,23'I

14:21;33:4;161:23 118:13;125:18 168:23 95:25;158:15

specific (6) States (4) stuck (1) T thinking (1)

54:1;119:21;124:8; 8:15;149:13;171:8, 128:20 119:24

128:16,19;132:21 11 stuff (9) table (5) third (2)

:rr EJ-E 1K" Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—550011: Dhauiv Ammuo Pranctnn RI 0707.0 www.alliedmnrfrennrters.c0m

(15) sleep — third

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Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. — Vol. II

May 9, 2017

9121,21 5:15;6:2;7:25; 9:17;35:19;68:9; 141:10 unsettled (3)

thorough (1) 11:15;14:7;69:9; 93:19;105:12;108:5; type (6) 22:2,8g4218

70:14 70:4;82:5;141:6; 145:20;161:25;172:7 28:24;34:10;51:17; unusual (3)

thoroughly (1) 155:20;156:21; transcript (3) 92:5;102:1;169:16 86:25;87:3;90:4

111:19 171:13;172:12 6:22;121:21;122:6 typed (l) up (39)

though (5) told (32) transfer (1) 122:10 18:20;24:1 1,15;

16:15;38:3;81:8; 13:15;14:24;15:14; 73:13 tyPes (1) 32:18;46:5;47:1; l

95:9;167:12 19:4;41:18;44:2; transpiring (1) 33:5 49:22;50:17,20,23:;

thought (17) 45:14,16;50:14;52:8, 130112 typical (1) 51:11;57:2;65:6; i

42:15;82:16; 11;73:23;74:2;76:14; travel (3) 36:3 69:4;96:25;102: 19;

105:19;110:24; 78:18;81:5;82:6; 152:22,23;157:11 typically (3) 106:1 1;107:16; 1

121:14;122:6,7; 98:13;105210; traveling (1) 35:11;72:5;80:5 108:20;127:23;5

129:9;134:2;135:1,3; 109:10;112:19; 149:12 128:18;129:1 1,23;

139:11;140:7; 129:21;138:8; treat (1) U 134:17;137:14;i

144:19;146:17; 141:11;143:20; 169:15 l42:19;143:l3,16;

158:15;164:18 148:8,22;153:24; Trevor (1) Ultimately (2) 144:17;148:3;f

threat (1) 155:23;164:11; 152:10 45:23;130:18 150:15;158:22;E

170:4 170:22;171:19 tried (1) U-Mass (1) 159:18;161;25; .

three (16) Tom (6) 11:3 101:25 166:3,12;170:13;:

16:19;20:1-0;25:8; 5:20;7:23;67:1; trouble (1) umbrella (1) 171:7;172:9I

37:1,5;68:19;87:8; 101:4;159:13;168:4 133:11 9:1 upgrade (1)

90:22,22;146:6; tomorrow (1) troubling (1) unable (1) 18:12j

147:1,2;149:12; 27:13 19:3 12:2 UPLC (l) I

150:22;157: 1 1; tone (3) trucks (1) Unauthorized (3) 168:4

‘173:10 38:9,11;112:6 27:15 5:5;7:13;170:5 upon (3)

throughout (1) took (8) true (2) unaware (1) 7:2;18:11;95;23j

135:20 9:24;15:9;25:19; 35:21;81:18 76:9 upset (1) i

Thursday (1) 69:10;74:10;103:1, truly (1) uncomfortable (7) 112:7l

61:22 18;161:9 170:12 13:10;43:17;44:1; use (10)

times (9) total (1) Trust (1) 50:22,24;91 :8,11 9:3;47:7;49:24;

36:15;49:1,4,6,6; 78:14 37:17 unconnected (1) 61:6,9;71:1;104:1,

60: 13;71:4;85:1 1; totality (1) truth (2) 65:13 20;105:7;147:9i

146:6 20:13 13:15;1 18:12 under (17) used (8)i

timing (1) totally (1) try (2) 6:13;9:1;18:8; 49: 18;71:3;144:18;

152:6 55:18 87:3;152:3 19:25,25;20:16; 146:3,4,5,9;147:1§

title (50) touch (1) trying (17) 30:16;56:11;64:8,12, using (2)i

16:11;26:4;29:20; 130:10 14:8;49212g79217; 20;97:25;109:5; 99:3;1 10:16I

30:10,17;32:13,17, tough (4) 86:2;111:3;113:5‘; 139:17;161:5;170:4; Usually (16) l

19;35:24;36:1,6,11;

39:9;41:11,20;42:11,

19,24;50:2;51:5;

59:21,23;61:6,7,9,12,

15;62:1 1,19,24;63:7,

25;73:13;86:1;88:9;

90:6;97:4,12,25;

98:1;99:3,4;111:16;

122:24;165:4,5,16;

169:20;170:20;

171:19

titled (15)

114:17;115:11;

116:8;1 17:12;

118:12;119:7;120:6;

121:2,20;122:15;

123:15;124:13;

125:17;126:12,22

Tiverton (14)

12:9;44:23,24;

49:24;74:11;103:7;

107:1;1 19:25;137:5;

153:22;157:15;

161:15;162:25;167:9

today (13)

68:25;85:12,12;

165:20

town (14)

24:13;44:23;49:19;

62:1;77:10;86:10;

87:9;92:15;137:4;

158:3,6,14,19,24

Trade (2)

168:12,25

trained (3)

56:13;58:7,18

Transact (1)

54:23

transaction (26)

9:8,12;12:5;20:9;

22:23;23:5;29:24;

30:25;32:16;35:9,13;

44:10;46:12;57:24;

62:10,19;68:16;

70:16,19;71 :14;

75:24;79:10;103:4;

134:4;161:5,12

transactional (1)

3 1:12

transactions (9)

116:3;129:3,4;130:3;

133:12;135:23;

136:23;152:1;171:2;

173:20,21

Tuesday (8)

136:12,14,19;

137:10;140:24;

141:2;142:12,23

turn (18)

6:9;72:16;1 13:9;

114:13;115:9;116:6,

13;]17:10,17;118:10,

17;119:5,1 1;120:4,

11,25;121:18;167:7

turned (1)

158:7

turns (1)

92:18

two (13)

17:23;20:10;24:17;

31:11,23;33:5;61:21;

65:5;99:18;126:24;

152:17;157:11;

163:10

two—hour (1)

174:3

undermines (1)

63:16

understood (2)

6: 12;81 :2

uneasy (2)

l6:13;77: 12

unethical (2)

94:9;95:5

Uniform (1)

120:6

United (1)

8:15

unknowledgeable (1)

41:25

unless (3)

6:24;]5:18;45: 11

unlikely (1)

3 1 :20

unnecessary (1)

38:21

unrepresented (1)

29:13

unresponsive (2)

47:25;48:5

30:9,11,1 1;32:1 1;!

34:18;37:12;53:11;

59:12,16,24;60:25;

75:19;86:21;90:6;!

97: 1 8,19

V

vacated (I)

20:4

vague (1)

166:3

vaguely (1)

166:8

valorem (1)

9:4

variety (l)

27: 1 9 i

various (2)

55:21;164:25

verbatim (2)

13 1 : 14,1 8

verifying (1)

104:9

Vespia (9)

7 ~‘I... I (: ._.: a U\!':'ELL3~~iJ-cc: 25—5-3»: Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946-5500

115 Phenix Avenue. Cranston. RI 02920 www.allicdcourtreporters.com(16) thorough — Velspia

}

Hearing

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol]. II

5:19;28:19,20;

29:3;132:10,11;

133:1;160:9;l67:19

video (1)

171225

Vin (1)

162:7

Vincent (4)

12:13;100:25;

162:19;166:22

Virtually (1)

139:24

Vocational (1)

101118

WW-9 (1)

99:20

wait (6)

60:8,12;87:1,15,

18;90:13

waiting (l)

50:22

walk (3)

53:4;141:22;163:2

walked (8)

22:16;47:2;51:4;

91:7;110:16;138:9;

142:6;144113

walking (1)

149:23

wants (1)

32:13

Warranty (4)

126:22;137:2;

139:5;147r6

Washington (1)

37:16

waste (1)

173217

water (2)

92:13,15

way (14)

7:7;37:7,8;71:2;

87:10,1 1;98:2;99:12;

122:1 1;166:16,18;

170:10;172:10;174:4

web (1)

171 :20

website (1)

59:1

Wednesday (1)

88:20

week (9)

60:14;136:8,23;

141:1;142:22;143:1,

2,8;152117

weekend (3)

111:7;134r22;

137:8

weeks (7)

17:20,22,23;90:22,

22;152:18;157:11

well-informed (1)

53:10

weren't (1)

128:13

whatnot (3)

72:9;76:23;77:11

what's (1)

90:10

whole (6)

112:13;1 14:10;

135:22;137:22;

163:8;165tl2

whomever (l)

68:10

wife (5)

107:14;1 12:7;

113:25;138:16,18wife's (1)

157:5

William (4)

5:9,10;11:1 1;70:1

wire (2)

25:16;149:3

wired (5)

25:9,11,14;60:6;

149:19

withdraw (3)

58:22;63:20;65:14

within (8)

12:15;24:17;25:5;

56:17;58:10;74:17;

107:4;163:1

without (9)

31:17,22;34:17;

41:25;46:16,20;

50:23;64:5;157:18

witness (37)

7:9,16;14:8,15,20;

22:7;23:4;38:7,18;

39:1,6;40:5,14,25;

41:8;48:4,13,16;

49:11,14;54:8,9,18;

57:15,19,20;58:5;

59:7;66:18,22;72:19;

77:23;100:16,25;

156:16;159:5,9

witness' (1)

21:21

witnesses (3)

6:1,3,17

woefully (1)

169:8

wondering (1)

19:23

word (2)

91:1 1;112:14

words (2)

21:20;138:10

work (8)

68:6;92:2;152:22,

23;]56:10,13;157:1 1,

12

May 9, 2017

worked (6) 11 (2) 2013 (1)

69:18,22;84:21; 3724,25 67:18

133:16;153:7;161:5 111 (1) 2014 (1)

working (4) 122:22 18:5

69:13,14;89:4; 117 (1) 2015 (12)

111:4 123:13 9:25;18:5;37:14;;

works (l) 118 (1) 69:10;85:9;88:20;f

45:20 124111 103:1;114:5;136:1;1;

world (2) 12 (3) 137:5;156:19;161:9

20:19;68:7 54:4,6,7 2016 (4)1

worry (1) 120 (1) 131:3;157:2,16;I

153:13 124:20 158:18i

worth (1) 125 (1) 2017 (1)

65:2 125215 5:24 !'

write (2) 126 (1) 21 (7)i

30:17;32:13 126:10 9:25;69:10;90:19;;

writing (3) 13 (3) 103:1;1 14:5;136:1i1;

41:15,19;99:9 57:13,14;113:9 161:9i

wrong (2) 14 (4) let (3)i

55:9;92:18 114:13;168:11,11, 134:21;140:23;Q

wrote (4) 21 154:24 i

42:19,23;88:23,23 15 (3) 25 (4)-

168:11,18,21 93:19;107:14; .

Y 150 (4) 115:9;150212§

9:19;40:17;84:20; 27 (1) |

yay (1) 85:1 137:5i

169:1 152 (3) 28 (1)

year (11) 72:16:126z20; 89:23

9:20;40:18;49:1; 137:3 28th (1)

68:23;69:5;84:17,20; 153 (1) 137:10

101:20;155:14; 137:3 29 (1)

156:17;157:18 16 (2) 168:11

years (11) 67:9;1 14:15

25:24;34:11;38:5; l7 (4) 340:16;55:17;58:14, 34:11;38:5;40:16;

14;64:13;84:15; 64:13 3 (6)

107:14;150:13 19 (l) 59:1 1;84:15;88:15,

8:6 18,19;151:21 i

Z 1964 (1) 3:01 (1)'

8:6 100:20

zoning (4) 1987 (1) 30-some-odd (1)

9:3;158:6,13,18 67:9 58:141988 (1) 3913 (1)

1 101:22 12:8

1995 (1)

1 (7) 147:25 45224;10:4,6;72:14; 19—9—6 (2)

88:20;89:19;90:17 36:5;37:19 4 (7)

1/2 (1) 62:17;88:15,18;

84:15 2 108:9,11;157:6;

1:00 (1) 1631225:1 2 (1) 4:10 (1) 1

10 (3) 52:16 167:25

57:18;88:13;1 17:8 2:51 (1) 4:15 (1)

100 (3) 100:20 167:25

53:13;131:21; 20 (1) 4:30 (1)

162:9 55:17 174:12

104 (1) 2000 (1) 41 (1)E

121:18 8:11 88:13 '

108 (1) 2002 (2) 42—30—8 (1) i

122:13 168:11,19 53:22 :'

1099 (1) 2009 (1) 47 (2)

99:20 56:10 116:6,11

~11‘:. 5 C‘ .-~. ">1“{?JiriE—Uuots 31-22:) Allied Court Reporters, Inc. (401)946—5500

1 15 Phenix Avenue. Cranston. RI 02920 www.alliedc0urtreporters.com(17) video L 47

9/5/201 8 8:49 AM

Hearing William E. Paplauskas, Jr. - Vol. II

May 9, 2017

49 (1). 58:14

5 (2)

44:5;63z22

50 (3)

69:3;93:10,11

528 (2)

103:7;161:15

6

6(2)56:11;57:17

60 (1)

53:13

63 (3)

116:1 1,13,17

7

75 (1)

93:12

78 (1)

117:10 i

.f 81 (1)I

117:17'

8—12—70 (1)=

101:14 I

84-83 (1)-

160:15I

86 (1) I

118:10I

87 (2)

118:17,21

9

9 (1)'

113:7

90 (1)

119:5

92 (1)

119:11'

93 (1)i

120:4

95 (1) g

120:11 i

99 (1)

120:25

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