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New Topic | Go to Top | Go to Topic | Search Newer Topic | Older Topic Cutter 3xCree Lumi upgrade - Pics!

Author: glenh Date: 21/09/07 23:17 Several people expressed an interest in the results of of upgrading Lumicycle Halogen lamps with the Cutter Electronics MR11 replacement kit with 3x Cree LEDs: http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut757 The kit is £46 (including postage) and includes, 3x LEDs mounted on and aluminium plate, lens/optic and 'bflex' driver+microcontroler. Now, down to the details: I found that the aluminium backing plate needed filing down a bit all around and then flat on one edge to fit into the Lumicycle enclosure. The stanadard Lumi toggle switch needs replacing with a standard sub-miniture non-latching toggle switch (the microcontroler needs button 'clicks'). You can get this from Maplin for about £2. It all fits in the enclosure with a liberal coating of heat transfer compound around the edge of the LED backing plate (messy, but it's best to get the heat to the enclosure):

Once closed up, it looks like this:

of 43Singletrack - Mountain Bike Magazine

26.10.2007http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3251489&t=3251489

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Now the interesting bit - the beam pics! All the pictures were taken at F2.8, 1/10s, ISO 1600. Lumi Halogen '12W' spot (Runs at 16W):

Lumi Halogen '20W' flood (Runs at 26W):



New 3xCree LED (running at max power ~11W):

As you can see, the LED setup outperforms the 26W halogen and should last more twice as long (~5 hours on a Lumi 'Pro' Li-ion battery). Burn time can be increased by using lower power settings (the microcontroler allows a miriad of easily adjustable power settings, flash modes, auto sleep lockout etc...). Pretty good I reckon!

Reply To This Message Re: Cutter 3xCree Lumi upgrade - Pics!

Author: oink1 Date: 21/09/07 23:22



Wow! - good work fella :o)


Author: chrism Date: 21/09/07 23:24 Neat and thanks for the pics. Your thermal transfer to the case will be pretty rubbish with just heatsink compound round the edge like that as you've got very little contact area (and it's not under much pressure. I'd suggest that a good way to go with this is to get a bit of alu plate and cut lots of little triangles in from the edge so you have loads of little wings which create a spring fit inside the casing. Thermal epoxy this to the back of the PCB and then insert that into the casing with thermal paste - will give you vaste amounts more contact area, and so much better heat transfer.


Author: spangelsaregreat Date: 21/09/07 23:28 Interesting, Could you post a step by step guide to the installation so we can see how easy/difficult it is. Also a list of all the stuff you need (tools etc) and the costs. Ta


Author: soma_rich Date: 22/09/07 00:27 Why arnt Lumi doing this as standard???


Author: pomona Date: 22/09/07 03:47 Awesome, just what I was asking about t'other day. I'll get my order off to Cutter ASAP. I planning on splitting my twin halogen (10w + 15w) bar mounted Nightpro system to have one on the bars and one on my helmet. I'll post results when I've done it


Author: spangelsaregreat Date: 22/09/07 09:11 Hi, soma-rich makes a good point so I just sent this to the guys at Lumicycle " Hi guys, Just a quick question regarding a topic on Singletrackworld thread (link http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3251489&t=3251489) As one of the posters asks, would you consider providing such an upgrade to your halogen lamps? From the general comments on similar threads I would reckon you would get alot of customers buying it if you did provide it. Regards" Will post there reply in due course. It surely would be a winner for them, loads of people in the UK must have Halogen systems and I am sure they would jump at the chance for such an upgrade. I know I would. Regards




Author: scienceofficer Date: 22/09/07 09:33 Theres a new LED lamp page in one of their sections.


Author: boobs Date: 22/09/07 11:58 Nice to see the difference between the halogen and the leds, I guess the ayup ones must be like daylight as there are four of them. There goes another £175.00. It also seems pretty good value as the leds on there own would be £100 odd


Author: 3rdsteve Date: 22/09/07 13:10 Check out cutter, 3 leds with lenses about £30. Buckpack another £10. Certainly not £100.


Author: e5c Date: 22/09/07 15:31 I am impressed , infact I have gotto get some dumb ass question time though The non latching switch is that used for the brightness function as well as on/off via the micro controller( as in 1 push on 2 push brighter etc last push off??) Was there only 1 LED assembly per kit Do I realy need 2 LED's on the bars as well as my helmet light , in the past i have used just a HID some how I do not think so! thanks


Author: e5c Date: 22/09/07 16:13 oops sorry forgot to ask Is there much heat build up at 1 amp ??? Also what angle lens are you using ?


Author: DC Date: 22/09/07 16:28 I gather that cutter are in the process of sourcing a 35mm sized heatsink that should work well with this kit. R-bin Crees (more light for the same power as these Q5 bin LEDs) are due in the next month or so too.. Which optic did you get glenh - the khatod or the ledil?


Author: trout Date: 22/09/07 17:47 I received this from cutters re heat



so will share with all Hi Chris The LEDs have a die junction temp rating of 145 deg C, however you do not want to operate the LEDs at that temp. Also the die temp will have a differential to consider relative to the outer casing of the XLAMP case, the back of the PCB etc which should be considered. You don't need to operate a slide rule for all this, it is sufficient you understand that too much heat will mitigate led performance so it is important to create a good path to ambient in your design, you want to create good contact over max surface area to transfer heat to the outside of your enclosure and have good 'air over' flow for your enclosure. Hope this helps Cheers Mark


Author: glenh Date: 22/09/07 18:55 For those interested in the heat issues with this set up, running the 3 LEDs at 1000ma the casing does get very hot (too hot to touch) quite quickly (suggesting reasonable heat transfer from the LED die, despite not having a particuarly large contact area). The electronics (which are inside ths casing of course) don't seem to be affected by this heat. Interestingly though, the casing does not get as hot as with the 20W Halogen, which was above 100C within about 5 mins (water dripped on it boiled). The LED casing remained below 100C. At 350ma (~45% max light output) the casing is just nice and warm to the touch.


Author: glenh Date: 22/09/07 18:57 e5c - yes the single non-latching switch controls on/off, brightness changes and all other functions.


Author: swampi Date: 22/09/07 19:47 you going to start making these to order,as i would gladly pay to have 1 built as i am useless at electronics


Author: glenh Date: 22/09/07 20:39 No electronics skills required really - you just need to be able to solder some wires. Having had a play around, I've decided to run the following options: Max current: 700mA (not much more light at 1000mA and more heat+battry drain) Controller interface - UIB (Bicycle) - gives 3 different light levels at a touch of the switch, plus an emergency low level. Light level selection(1 (dimmest) to 8 (brightest), plus Max availble): 4, 6 and Max.


Author: trout Date: 22/09/07 21:24 Glenh that is great you have put up the beam shots for the cree kit from cutters. I have 2 kits on order hopefully to arrive early next week . My brother is an engineer and has just bought a lathe for his hobby of building strange motor vehicles. and he is going to make me some housings for the led kits when I find some ali bar .



we are happy to make some for other people to help keep costs down . I am looking at a design a bit like this http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=337752 and will post pics of the build so if anybody wants a similar light body making or can send me a design that works then we might be able to make some more this is to try and reduce the cost of the aluminium bar so if you want one let me know


Author: dandag Date: 22/09/07 21:28 Trout - that is my design remember!


Author: trout Date: 22/09/07 21:39 don`t worry rob I wont forget you I might need help with the rest of the design. and our deal is still ok


Author: glenh Date: 22/09/07 22:01 Some more beam shots, at different power settings, for those that are interested: 350mA:

500mA



750mA

1000mA




Author: trout Date: 22/09/07 22:10 Cheers Glenh. what is the distance to the wall at the back have you been out riding with it yet it looks very impressive is there any chance of some longer distance shots maybe with a bike in it for scale


Author: glenh Date: 22/09/07 22:26 The wall at the back is probably around 15m away. Haven't ridden with it yet, but the 26W halogen it replaces is pretty good even when riding in a group, and it's brigher and has a wider beam than that (see pics at top), so it should be pretty good.


Author: stevemorg Date: 22/09/07 22:53 Trout, I'll be intereted if you make some units up will they run with my Lumi LiIon packs?


Author: glenh Date: 22/09/07 23:46 Will work fine with lumi Li-ion batteries. It will take a input between 4V and 24V!




Author: glenh Date: 22/09/07 23:48 (~12V reqiured for current regulation with the 3 Cree LEDs)


Author: DC Date: 23/09/07 22:06 Unless you use a boost converter like the taskled fatman, in which case lower voltages can be used.


Author: glenh Date: 23/09/07 22:18 True, but if you are using a Lumi Li-ion battery you've got 14.8V, so you might as well use the 'bflex' controller and have all the features.


Author: Clubber Date: 24/09/07 10:21 Glen, just to be clear, if I ordered the "Cree XR-E bflex MR11 Kit" from your link (AUS$99.95), that would be everything I'd need other than a microswitch to control it and a 12ishV battery to power it (obviously!) - ie that includes all the electronics, controllers, current regulators, etc or is there anything else you need to order?


Author: glenh Date: 24/09/07 10:33 Yes, it includes the LEDs mounted on a aluminium plate, MR11 sized lens/optic and the microcontroller/driver. All you need is a battery, a switch and a case to put it all in (and some wire+solder to connect it all up of course). If you are upgrading a Lumicycle Halogen, you just need to swap the switch (keep the waterproof switch cover) for one of these (non-latching version - FH03D): http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=FH03D&DOY=24m9 You can use the existing battery and lamp housing (LED mouning plate needs a bit of filing to fit in).


Author: Clubber Date: 24/09/07 10:44 Cool - thanks Glen. In your pics, you've listed 1 amp as the max - is that total draw or for each of the three lamp? I presume the former.


Author: joemarshall Date: 24/09/07 11:02 That looks fantastically tidy. With the filing, did you file it down until it'd only just fit in so it's quite a tight fit? One random idea about heat transfer, on my nowhere near as tidy LED lights, I have a bit of a space in the housing to let air into them, and have had no problems with rain or anything, and they stay nice and cool (at 750ma). I wonder if drilling some air holes in the side of the housing might be a simple way to make them cool quicker. You'd obviously have to cover up the



solder joints and wrap up the driver in order to keep things water resistant, but there isn't anything else that is going to be very water sensitive? Cool - thanks Glen. In your pics, you've listed 1 amp as the max - is that total draw or for each of the three lamp? I presume the former. It's 1 amp current, the LEDs are in series, so it will run at the sum of the voltages (11v with 3 LEDs vs 3.5v with 1 LED) Joe


Author: glenh Date: 24/09/07 11:05 The lamps are in series so it's both the total draw and the current through each LED! As I think I mentioned above, I'm running mine with 750mA max current (configureable in the microcontroller). 1000mA doesn't generate enough extra light (I think around 750lm compared to 650lm at 750mA) for it to be worth it in my opinion (plus you have more heat issues). This is because the LEDs get less efficient at higher currents (roughly 75 lm/W at 1000mA, compared to 110lm/W at 350mA).


Author: glenh Date: 24/09/07 11:09 Those efficiencies are still way better than HID (50 lm/W) or Halogen (25 lm/W) though!


Author: Clubber Date: 24/09/07 11:39 "Those efficiencies are still way better than HID (50 lm/W) or Halogen (25 lm/W) though!" True but while I'm obviously interesed in these LEDs, I don't believe that you can compare the lumens/efficiency values of an LED with a HID - in the real world side by side tests I've seen myself, HIDs of similar numerical outputs may be less efficient but they still perform better as a way of lighting up trails than LEDs, particularly over any kind of distance (luckily most of my riding is slowish, tight singletrack so distance isn't really an issue). Of course, HIDs cost a LOT more and are arguably more fragile.


Author: joemarshall Date: 24/09/07 11:49 True but while I'm obviously interesed in these LEDs, I don't believe that you can compare the lumens/efficiency values of an LED with a HID - in the real world side by side tests I've seen myself Have you tried that with home builds with the latest cree/seoul LEDs (or the newest Dinotte / Ay-Up / Lupine LED lights), or just with older shop bought LED lights (hope, USE etc.) , most of the older ones use luxeon LEDs which are only something like 1/2 as bright as the crees and certainly aren't anything like as bright as the HID lights, (which is why they tended to be a bit quiet about actual lumen figures in the marketing and instead say 'equivalent to x watt halogen' using some bogus calculation.) Joe


Author: glenh Date: 24/09/07 12:04 Clubber - this time last year most power LEDs being used in bike lights had a luminous efficiency of around 30 lm/W (Luxeon 3/5W) - poor compared to HID. The new Cree LEDs used in this kit have only been available for a few months and I don't know of any commercial design using them currently.

Reply To This Message



Re: Cutter 3xCree Lumi upgrade - Pics!

Author: glenh Date: 24/09/07 12:07 Joemarshall - are the new Dinotte / Ay-Up / Lupine LED lights using cree/seoul LEDs? Just had a look - I guess they must be going by the figures (200 lm per LED from Dinotte for instance).


Author: C40 Date: 24/09/07 12:48 Very interested in this. I've got some old BLTs with similar housing. Numpty question time. How big a battery is required for these if running 12v or 6v for say 2hrs? Cheers and sorry for being a numpty.


Author: tandemjeremy Date: 24/09/07 12:51 c40 - use your existing battery. different drivers require differnt voltages but to run 3x crees at 750ma using a 12 V requires approx 1.5 amp hr to run for 2 hrs.


Author: tandemjeremy Date: 24/09/07 12:56 I have a set of triple Seoul leds running at 1 amp - theoretical 720 lumens. the amount of light is huge - but I seem to have trouble with contrast and depth perception. I am a newbie to night riding so don't have much experience to compare with but I do wonder if there is something about the quality of the light from LEDs that means it is harder to see contrast with them????


Author: glenh Date: 24/09/07 13:16 'White' LEDs generate most of their light at blue and yellow/orange wavelengths, with little ouput in the green range (where sunlight peaks), so the illumination does appear slightly 'unnatural' compared to halogen (broader range of light output). The problem with contrast and depth perception is probably more to do with having a single light source close to your head - the shadows are all behind the objects you are looking at, making it a bit more difficult to work out what you are looking at. This is a problem with all types of lights, not just LED.


Author: tandemjeremy Date: 24/09/07 13:19 Ta Glenh - a rational explanation


Author: glenh Date: 24/09/07 13:23 C40 - note: you need at least 12V to run the LEDs via the 'bflex' microcontroller in this kit. If you want to user a lower voltage battery, you should use the 'fatman' kit from Cutter instead: http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut756 It doesn't have all the features of the 'bflex', but allows you to use a input below the drive voltage of the 3 LEDs.





Author: C40 Date: 24/09/07 14:05 Cheers guys. The old BLT battery is dying so looking to sort out a new one anyway. Was looking at 12v NIMH from RC cars on ebay. I reckon they should fit in a 750ml bottle and they come in 3300mAH, 3700 and 4300mAH. Looking at TJs post i can get away running the cheaper 3300 and still have just under 2hrs runtime allowing for variances.


Author: Clubber Date: 24/09/07 14:15 3300mAh pack at 1 amp should in theory provide 3.3hrs of light - even accounting for the inefficiency, I would still expect it to be at the very least 2.5hrs - especially considering the the nominal rating (eg 3300mAh) is the minimum for the cells - most packs will be higher. Or is there something peculiar to LEDs that I'm missing?


Author: C40 Date: 24/09/07 14:20 Clubber wrote: > Or is there something peculiar to LEDs that I'm missing? No its just me being thick!!


Author: tandemjeremy Date: 24/09/07 14:24 Clubber - the power packs use constant current with LEDs - a triple will pull a nominal 11.1v (3.7 per led) and as a 12 v battery has a nominal voltage of anywhere between 12 and 13.2 volt depending upon type you need to multiply the current by battery voltage divided by LED voltage. Then allow 5% loss for efficiency - so a 1 amp triple led setup can draw anything from 0.8 amp of the battery to 1.1 amp depending on the actual voltage of the battery(all aproximate) Run a single led from a 12 v battery at 1 amp you will only draw about 0,3 amp from the battery.


Author: Clubber Date: 24/09/07 14:30 Thanks TJ - what I thought.


Author: biffer Date: 25/09/07 10:43 Tick


Author: mrmo Date: 25/09/07 12:49 has anyone got any beam patterns comparing a triple cree to a Hid, Not in the position to do it now but the most cost effective upgrade for my Lumi's could be to get a Cutter kit. That the higher rated bins will probably be around by the time i can do something won't hurt any either.




Author: glenh Date: 25/09/07 13:19 They will develop ~ 700 lumen, which is more than most HIDs (5-600 generally). The beam pattern seems spot on to me - fairly wide beam, with a brighter central spot for distance (you can't see this very well from my pics).


Author: mrmo Date: 25/09/07 13:28 If that is the case, will there be any Hids on the market for winter 08/09? as i understand, more expensive, more fragile, and it seems not as bright?


Author: glenh Date: 25/09/07 13:32 Lupine Willma LEDs (4 LEDs) will kick out 850lm and the Bettys (7 LEDs) 1400 lm !! Not much requirement for HIDs any more, in my opinion.


Author: Marmoset Date: 25/09/07 14:23 Saw a Betty in action last night - very impressive light output and beam spread. I think I'll wait for the price to come down tho'!


Author: glenh Date: 25/09/07 14:55 Lupine Edison HID (10w):

Wilma at 9W (should be similar to this cutter 3xCree set up (10W)):

Wilma flat out (15W):



Betty flat out (22W):


Author: Clubber Date: 25/09/07 14:59 Wow - if that really is representative (it's always a bit hard to tell from pics) then that's great for the cutter setup - and the Betty's just silly!


Author: the-muffin-man Date: 25/09/07 15:00 If that is the case, will there be any Hids on the market for winter 08/09? Well, there'll be loads in the classifieds!!


Author: Clubber Date: 25/09/07 15:11 Next question then - how long until the next upgrade to the Cutter kit - ie if I went and bought one now, is there something better just about to be launched (obviously they'll be superceeded eventually but I'd rather not have it obsolete as soon as I buy it!)


Author: glenh Date: 25/09/07 15:18 Apparently 'R2' bin Cree XR-E lEDs are soon to be available. They will give you ~5% more light. As for another big leap in LED performance, who knows, but going on recent developments, I wouldn't be suprised if much better LEDs are available this time next year (but you could probably just upgrade your LEDs using the same optic, driver, housing etc. - currently 3 LEDs on the pcb are about £15).





Author: LeroyOfTheRovers Date: 25/09/07 16:40 nothing to contribute. just ticking the box


Author: DC Date: 25/09/07 18:56 Yes, R2 bin should be a bit more than 5% better than the Q5s in the current Cree kit:

However, R3 might be available this year and that's another increment again. But what the hell, I'm ordering now (I'd reached the same conclusion as Glenh that at ~£15 to replace the LED board, I can afford to upgrade when there's sufficient improvement in efficiency..) BTW, the industry forecast is for about 160 lumen/Watt (efficacy, so perhaps 190lumen/Watt *flux*, which is what we've been talking about so far) by 2012:


Author: glenh Date: 26/09/07 09:25 For those who are interested, I rode with the light last night (lamp mounted on bars): Plenty of light - the only other light in the group that seemed as bright was a Lupine Wilma. The HIDs didn't seem as good (although I didn't ride with one for a direct comparison), especially the one that refused to start! Beam pattern seemed good, at least for the relatively slow speed technical riding I was doing. I mentioned above that the lamp got quite hot (although not as hot as with the halogen bulb) when running at 1000mA when testing it at home. You'll be pleased to hear that when riding the lamp stayed nice and cool, even at 1000mA, so long as there was some airflow over it.


Author: C40



Date: 26/09/07 11:11 Cheers for the update Glen


Author: Swayndo Date: 26/09/07 22:14 Another non-engineer here ... did someone say they were going to produce these?


Author: glenh Date: 28/09/07 10:00 Another update: Cutter have just started offering the driver/controller with a new bike specific software. For those concerned about heat sinking, it now comes with auto-dimming at a configureable temperature: http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut757


Author: biffer Date: 28/09/07 12:08 This just seems to get better and better ! Looks like I will need to place an order this weekend for one of these, shame I haven't got time to get it sorted before D2D.


Author: mistermouse Date: 05/10/07 18:35 Hi , how are people fitting the board in lumi houseings, just lobbing them in or secureing them somehow, also is there a wiring diagram somewhere for these kits? cheers Roland


Author: DC Date: 05/10/07 20:44 Received and built my cutter kit into a lumi housing last night. This was the closest thing I found to a wiring diagram: http://www.taskled.com/leds/bflexuib2_v1.00.pdf I request the kit with the new UIB2 firmware which seems fairly easy to use. I haven't yet enabled any of the advanced features like voltage and temperature sensing. The filing of the MCPCB was the biggest faff. In my case, I also had to file a small tab off the optic. I've taken a few assembly photos if anyone is interested.


Author: e5c Date: 05/10/07 22:03 Yes please DCpics would be appreciated Addy in profile Ta





Author: higgo Date: 05/10/07 22:11 pics here too please. I'm thinking of wapping one in one of my Marwi Nightpro lamps (also MR11) and could do with getting some idea if it will all fit.


Author: mistermouse Date: 06/10/07 14:02 Pics for me too please


Author: firestarter Date: 07/10/07 17:28 tick


Author: deus Date: 07/10/07 18:24 *cackles manically and then rubs hands together* i'd noticed that on the cutter website a couple of weeks ago. just wondering if it would be worth buying 2 kits for my lumis..... hmmm maybe buy one and then another one later. will also get their 35mm heatsink although i'm not sure i'll be able to fit it all in. think i'll also either get a separate wee blue LED so that i can see when the battery is running low (yes i read the pdf instructions for the controller) or alternatively see if i can get a switch that has an LED built into it. happy days (or rather nights)


Author: grahamb Date: 07/10/07 22:44 I've been considering going for one of these kits for one of my old Lumi halogen cases. The heatsink is 35mm in dia so it'll need some filing to fit the lumi housing. The heatsink & PCB combined are about 30mm deep. There's no way they'll fit as is, i reckon there's only 20mm available. Looks like the heatsink will need to lose some fins to get it over the captive nut at the bottom of the can. I'm wondering if the heatsink is really worth going for.


Author: higgo Date: 08/10/07 10:42 A couple of questions, if I may, relating to my own planned conversion (to LEDs, not Islam) My current batteries (and hence charger) are all either 6v or 7.2v so I'm looking at the 'Fatman' boost controller. What functionality does this lack compared to the other one? The switches in my current lights (Marwi NightPro) and simple on/off latching jobs. The housing are sort of bullet shaped so there's no nice flat surface to drill to mount a new switch. Anyone else in this position? How did you solve it?




Author: DC Date: 08/10/07 11:29 To the last two posters: I don't think the heatsink will work in a lumi housing - it's almost certainly too big and would require extensive rework. I've bought some copper sheet and some thermally conductive double-sided sticky tape to make a bent bit of metal to transfer heat from LED board ("MCPCB") to enclosure. However, as noted by glenh, a bit of heat transfer compound on the edge of the MCPCB and a snug fit (don't overfile it) seems to work adequately so I haven't bothered with this (yet). As it is, it gets hot when on stationary at full beam, but normal speed riding keeps everything cool to the touch. The bflex and fatman controllers are sourced by cutter from taskled. They have an overview here: http://www.taskled.com/compare.html and a technical section where you can view all the features: http://www.taskled.com/techfatman.html. The key difference is that the fatman just lets you control the light brightness via an external potentiometer (or fix it with a resistor). The bflex gives you a digital interface via clicks of a button to control brightness, strobe. Bflex also has voltage and temperature sensing and warning. Will post build photos later this week.


Author: higgo Date: 08/10/07 14:01 Thanks. I think for simplicity I'll stick with my 7.2v system and use the Fatman. I'll just use the trimpot to run it somewhere in the 700-800mA range for efficiency. Then I can use the existing switch.


Author: stevemorg Date: 09/10/07 08:36 DC, any additional info/pics would be great please


Author: jobe Date: 11/10/07 14:37 Just want to keep this going! Great thread*, full of useful info too. I like the idea of the RC battery packs but they may be a little heavy. *resisiting the urge to call it illuminating!!**


Author: glenh Date: 11/10/07 15:21 I had this in another thread, but since this one has popped up again: Since quite a few people are interested in Cree Q5 LEDs for home made lights, but Cree only give ouput figures for 350mA on their datasheet (even though the LEDs are rated to 1A) So, I decide to measure my set up. The results are below. Note that the 'hot' data is after the lamp has been running at the specified current for a few minutes. This was with no airflow, in a warm room, so the drop off would not be as bad when actually riding.




Author: biffer Date: 11/10/07 15:53 I ordered my set 2 weeks ago so should be arriving any day now. Can't wait to wire them up and test them out........... <Taps foot impatiently>


Author: meeeee Date: 12/10/07 18:01 QUOTE: Hi, soma-rich makes a good point so I just sent this to the guys at Lumicycle " Hi guys, Just a quick question regarding a topic on Singletrackworld thread (link http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3251489&t=3251489) As one of the posters asks, would you consider providing such an upgrade to your halogen lamps? From the general comments on similar threads I would reckon you would get alot of customers buying it if you did provide it. Regards" Will post there reply in due course. It surely would be a winner for them, loads of people in the UK must have Halogen systems and I am sure they would jump at the chance for such an upgrade. I know I would. Regards END QUOTE Did you get a reply from Lumicycle about this ???


Author: Swayndo Date: 12/10/07 18:50



I did tho. Jon said they would definitely have one next year.


Author: DC Date: 13/10/07 01:14 Here are my build photos using the Cutter bflex kit and an outline of the procedure that I used. 0. Start with a bog-standard Lumicycle lamp:

1. Remove external lock ring (which incorporates the rubber cover) from the existing on-off swich. Remove bulb lock ring, remove MR11 bulb exposing wiring harness. Pull on-off switch out.

2. Cut connections to MR11 lamp socket and strip the two wires. This picture also shows the replacement momentary switch and the now surplus on-off switch. Thanks to glenh for suggesting this part (FH03D) from Maplin as it is an exact match for the removed part http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=FH03D.



3. File down the MCPCB (needs a bit off all round, then make a flat side for the bottom of the lumi housing (which is flattened for the captive nut). This took about 30 minutes with the file on a leatherman (so, not the best). You need to keep filing and offering up the MCPCB to the housing as you want a tight fit for best thermal conductivity. In my case the optic also had a small tab that needed filing for it to fit in the housing.

4. Here's a picture of the driver circuit (taskled fatman). I forgot to take a photo, so this is cut and paste from the taskled user manual. Note that Cutter didn't include the momentary switch shown in this picture, but it wouldn't have been used in any use - the FH03D takes its place and wires into the same holes as shown here:



5. Things got a bit tricky at this point, so I couldn't hold the camera and soldering iron. Basically you need to wire up the following connections. For tips on soldering see here: http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/telescope/soldering.htm i. 2 existing wires from the lumi power connector to bflex IN+, IN- (note that the wire connected to the centre terminal of the power connector is negative). ii. 2 new wires from momentary switch to switch connector holes on the bflex (this carries little current, so use a narrow gauge wire for max flexibility when you fit the assembly back together) iii. 2 new wires from bflex LED+, LED- to MCPCB (the MCPCB doesn't clearly label polarity, but the Cree LEDs do, so you can work it out from there) [Although I'm using bflex UIB2, I haven't yet fitted the optional status LED or thermally coupled the MCPCB to the bflex to enable temperature sensing] Then, put everything into the housing and fit the optic and the lamp lockring. The existing switch lockring/rubber cover fits over the new FH03D switch.



My overall verdict - excellent brightness, good control via a simple single-button interface. Minor niggle - the beam pattern isn't the best with quite a bit of light reflected back into the unit. I hope that cutter can soon source a better optic. However, as the least expensive bit of the kit, I'd buy now and upgrade optic later (if possible)..


Author: DC Date: 13/10/07 01:21 d'oh - that mention of taskled fatman should of course be bflex..


Author: stevemorg



Date: 13/10/07 06:47 just a quick question - my lumiclone batteries are centre+, not centre- like the lumi ones. will that make a difference?


Author: DC Date: 13/10/07 09:31 No - just wire them up to the bflex IN+ and IN- respectively.


Author: trout Date: 13/10/07 16:17 I have made a few housings for this kit and some are for sale if anyone is interested.

some more pics here http://pics-by-chris.fotoblog.org.uk/ having rode with one I can only say they are great . I power mine with a makita drill battery I will make the odd housing to order as well.


Author: dandag Date: 13/10/07 16:18 are you using a 7.2v battery or larger?


Author: trout Date: 13/10/07 17:47 my battery is a 14.4v 2.5ah ni-hm with a 1 hr charger . a bit heavy but I use it for work as well . did a 2 hour ride on thursday with the light , not on full power all the time as playing with the different outputs , even on emergency low it was very useable . then when at home I wanted to see how long was left in the battery it lasted 55 mins on full power at 1000ma before going out of regulation .then switched to direct drive and lasted far to long and I got bored and switched of and went to bed.





Author: DC Date: 14/10/07 09:49 Trout - nice machining. 1. How much? 2. What (handlebar/helmet) mounting fixture have you used?


Author: joemarshall Date: 14/10/07 12:59 Since quite a few people are interested in Cree Q5 LEDs for home made lights, but Cree only give ouput figures for 350mA on their datasheet (even though the LEDs are rated to 1A) That's a neat graph. Looks like you're getting about the datasheet rating of the Q5 (which is a minimum) when running cool, and a bit less when running hot, even up to 1000ma. The Relative Intensity vs. Current graph in the datasheet (multiplied by the rated lumens at 350ma) is how you get this info off the datasheet surely, but it's nice to see independent measurements. Joe


Author: trout Date: 14/10/07 18:26 DC I have gone the very easy ziptie to the helmet after lots of thought trying to design a helmet mount then my mate said lets go riding tonight to test the lights so we zippyed them on and it worked perfectly also kept the light as low to the helmet as possible. I have not designed a bar mount yet but put 2 m4 tapped holes in the heatsink so it will be easy to adapt a bar mount to fit . I can do one for about £25 posted.


Author: dandag Date: 14/10/07 18:34 Can a triple seoul LEd be bought?


Author: glenh Date: 14/10/07 22:08 DC - I've just got hold of a bflex with the new UIB2. I've found 70°C for auto dimming seems reasonable with the driver behind the LEDs in a Lumi mr11 enclosure. This dims the light just before the enclosure gets too hot to touch. I don't think it will activate when riding (even at 1000mA), but haven't tested this yet.


Author: trout Date: 15/10/07 06:35 glenh- does it switch back up when it cools down


Author: iggs



Date: 15/10/07 11:06 Thanks for sharing the information folks, much appriciated I have a couple of Aliminum cateye ABS housings. Do you think I'd get everything I need to inside one of them. http://www.zyro.co.uk/plrg/CA5340588.jpg Because they are cone shaped rather than cylindrical like the lumi's there might be some issues The are have an internal diameter of 37mm at the front and an internal depth of 37mm too They are available still from Zyro (approx £20) I believe so if it will all fit inside then would make a good bar mounted housing as the various clamps are also still available. Has anyone got a drawing or measurments the minumum amount of space that would be needed inside a housing for this conversion Thanks Ian


Author: iggs Date: 15/10/07 11:07 Try again

Sorry didn't get the img code right by the looks of it


Author: Clubber Date: 15/10/07 11:14 100! :)


Author: LeroyOfTheRovers Date: 15/10/07 11:24 I really wish I hadn't ticked the box now!


Author: jobe Date: 15/10/07 11:59 Does the fatman boost controller require the FH03D switch? I am in the same postion as Higgo, - i have a lower voltage 6v battery. My current lamps are the electron EPH330's with a simple on/off push switch - a toggle switch may not fit as the lamp body is curved. After reading thorugh this read i'm fairly sure MCPCB and fatman controller should fit - with work!?? Any ideas?


Author: DC



Date: 15/10/07 12:13 Fatman doesn't require any external switches - it can be "set and forget", although you won't be able to modify the brightness on the fly. With a bit of rewiring, the on/off switch that you currently have could be used to switch in/out a single resistor that connects to the external potentiometer connections on the fatman. This would allow you to switch between two different (pre-set) brigtnesses on the trail. You'd just have to disconnect the battery to switch the lights off.. THere is also a "maxflex" board from cutter that has the bike-specific controls. The maxflex is also a boost converter like the fatman (i.e. works with lower voltage batteries). This is digitally controlled, like the bflex, and requires a FHO3 (or similar) momentary-contact switch.


Author: dandag Date: 15/10/07 17:51 Has anyone used this option witha 7.2v battery?


Author: higgo Date: 15/10/07 17:55 That's what I've ordered, Dandag. Not arrived yet.


Author: dandag Date: 15/10/07 17:58 it obviously provides the same lumen out put, what is the point of the kits which require 12+v?


Author: iggs Date: 15/10/07 17:59 dandag I've been looking at that. From what I can work out the thing you'll lose is the option to switch between different lighting powers but you'll be able to use a range of different battery voltages Have a look at this board http://www.taskled.com/maxflex.html Am I missing something but does this board do the same as the fatman and the bflex combined?




Author: dandag Date: 15/10/07 18:01 Thats what i thought, same benefits, less battery cost and size. Basically i would want on and off! thats it to be honest


Author: iggs Date: 15/10/07 18:01 I cant find it on the cutter website though :-(


Author: Paddywack0 Date: 15/10/07 18:05 From what it says on the Cutter website "Depth of Optic mounted over MCPCB is 15mm" and the Diameter is 35mm for the optic and 25mm for the PCB so with a tight squeeze it might all fit into the Electron Lamp Housing although there is a Mounting section that protrudes into the housing that could put a kybosh on the whole thing. Shame about the remote switch on the Electrons not being a momentary one since it is a good design. Good to know if anyone can fit this into an Electron housing http://www.ultimatepursuits.co.uk/products/details.aspx?pRef=60681&vertical=1&v= since at a tenner this would be a pretty cheap option and the Electron has a nice Handlebar clamp for £3 http://www.ultimatepursuits.co.uk/products/details.aspx?pRef=69650&vertical=1&v=


Author: iggs Date: 15/10/07 18:07 With the fatman elctronincs how would I work out how long a battery would last For instance a 6volt 3000mAH with the led's set to run 750mAH. Because the led's are running 11ish volts would it be the same as running a 12 volt 1500mAH battery and so therefore I'd get in the region of 2 hrs?


Author: chrism Date: 15/10/07 18:10 That would be because he's only just re-released it about a week ago, so when Cutter were putting these packages together it wasn't available. Was originally released almost a year ago, but got withdrawn because of a bug. Does indeed do much the same as a bFlex and Fatman combined - all the bFlex functionality but for lower voltage batteries. Really essential to monitor battery usage with one of these, as it will keep your light burning bright whilst it drains the battery down to nothing (not good for LiIon).


Author: dandag Date: 15/10/07 18:20 Nimh would be fine though




Author: biffer Date: 15/10/07 18:22 Blimey - a technical thread soars over 100 posts :) My unit was shipped out by Cutter 2 weeks ago so hoping it will arrive this week as I really want to get on with this upgrade to see if the hype is worth it.


Author: trout Date: 15/10/07 18:34 biffer you wont be disapointed it makes a fantastic light .I have made 2 but with the bflex . we all should have got together for a group buy from cutters and maybe got a good discount.


Author: dandag Date: 15/10/07 18:37 So am i correct in thinking that with this pair of batteries wired in series i will get a 6hr plus runtime? click here


Author: Paddywack0 Date: 15/10/07 18:39 Have e-mailed this lot: http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/index.php with whom I have had good dealings with before pointing them in the direction of the Cutter site. The MD e-mailed me back straight away. It would be good to have a UK supplier for these and not have to wait 3 weeks for delivery. "Nick I have send off the info to my supplier to ask if they can make them - thanks for the info Robert Bennett Managing Director www.Ultraleds.co.uk 2 Store Street Bollington Macclesfield Cheshire SK10 5PN 01625 576778"


Author: higgo Date: 15/10/07 19:01 Would be very interested to know if UltraLEDS end up stocking them as I'm about 2miles away from them. (didn't even know they existed)


Author: dandag Date: 15/10/07 21:59 would be quicker than cutter





Author: jobe Date: 15/10/07 23:01 Oooh, that would be handy! Btw Electron stuff is cheaper from CRC. I'd be very interested in being part of a 'group purchase'. Paddywack0 - that prob is what i have come up against after looking at mine, the mounting bracket inside the unit will probably get in the way. Would be interesting to see if the push button did work with the Fatman board. A larger unit may be a better option, i dont know much about the Cateye's mentioned earlier in this thread and really a lumicycle or homemade unit would be best bet.


Author: biffer Date: 16/10/07 08:18 Jobe - you might well find that a lot of Lumi users will switch from a double set-up to a single due to being able to run both high and low power. That is certainly my plan although I might continue to take my flood along with me as a back up. This means that there will be a number of redundant Lumi housing sitting around. Give it a couple of months then put out a WTD.


Author: Clubber Date: 16/10/07 09:17 It sounds like quite a few people have done the conversion now, so... how does the Cutter setup compare to a standard Lumicycle (or similar) halogen? (and it'd be useful to understand if you're running at 750mA or 1A)? Also, one for the geeks, it's been discussed above that the new maxflex seems to allow all the control options of the bflex but with the lower voltages of the fatman. I've got a load of individual cells to build up a battery from so I can build either 7.2v packs or one 12 or 13.2v pack - presumably, running at the higher voltage (ie more overal 'capacity' talking energy ie joules) will mean longer run times?


Author: DC Date: 16/10/07 09:54 I'd say that at 750mA the triple Cree is as bright as a 20W halogen. However, "brightness" alone doesn't allow full comparison. Other factors are: 1. Beam spread - halogens have more options (e.g. spot/flood or even more specific angles of spread). The current Cutter kit has, IMO, less than ideal spread but it packs sufficient brightness to overcome this. It could be better (and I look forward to finding out more about the promised new version from cutter). 2. Quality of light - I *much* prefer the white/blue light of the LEDs to halogen and this alone makes the change worthwhile for me. The following is a bit of a verbose ramble, but it's been 15 years since I took my electronics degree.. As for battery packs/boost/buck. It's all about *useful* energy. If a 7.2V pack has enough energy stored to run your lights Instantaneous Watts (energy) = Volts * Amps If you multiply the number of Watts by the amount of time for which a system can run, you get the total stored energy in a battery (in terms of Watt hours). Because batteries themselves have a (nominally) fixed voltage, their fully-charged energy content is often described in terms of (milli)Amp-hours rather than Watt-hours. So, a charged 13.2V 4000mAh battery has 52.8k mW-hours of energy. With an ideal DC/DC converter you can draw that energy store out of the battery at an arbitrary voltage (or arbitrary current) and then the run time is determined by dividing the energy stored by the Voltage (or current). However, you can't magically create more Watts. Furthermore, the DC/DC converters will themselves use some energy (e.g. 85% efficiency, means 15% lost in the conversion process). There isn't an ideal DC/DC converter and bike lights provide additional space constraints, so currently you have to choose either a: Boost converter - starts with a lower voltage and converts up (i.e. boosts the battery voltage) Buck converter - converts voltage downwards. There are such things as buck/boost converters that do both, but I haven't seen bike-sized kit yet.. It's interesting to note what happens once the energy from the cell is partially depleted. For a higher voltage battery pack with a buck converter, once the battery voltage drops below (LED Vf + Voltage drop across converter), the system enters direct drive - i.e. the DC/DC converter is by-passed and the battery supplies the LED directly. This then runs until the battery drops too low to even light the LEDs, which will progressively dim.



For a lower voltage pack with boost, the boost converter will keep drawing battery power and providing full LED brightness until (pretty suddenly) it will cut out when it can't supply sufficient output voltage. I've not experienced this, but theoretically I believe that is what would happen. I know which I'd prefer on the trails.. The above ignores other effects like the internal resistance of the battery and the effect that this has on the "C" (discharge rate) and the effect that this has on the useful energy that can be delivered to the external (LED) load. Also, you would have to be very careful with LiIon (or LiPo) batteries and boost converters as a boost converter may over-discharge the system (catastropically..).


Author: slow_n_steady Date: 16/10/07 10:37 I'm finding this a very interesting thread & one which I have 'tried' to follow but still keep thinking that one of the more entrepreneurial members of the STW massif should get a home brewed kit sorted for sale to us less technically compitent. ( Along the lines of all bits supplied, just need assembly, or fully assembled & ready to rock) Chris


Author: biffer Date: 16/10/07 10:46 s_n_s - I was thinking about that. I will have a spare Lumi housing and could offer an exchange build service on a Lumi unit. ie I can build my spare one up, you sendme your old housing and I send you the built unit. < wanders off pondering the market for such a service >


Author: trout Date: 16/10/07 10:58 I have thought about this and it runs into alsorts of problems . kit from cutters £50 housing I do make some housings for £25 see earlier in thread. I also have some prototypes I will sell off a bit cheaper. switch , wiring , thermal paste or epoxy.£10 conectors all battery packs seem to have different ones time to build , it takes 3 hours to make a housing. then maybe 2 hrs to build up the light .then postage. oh and what about warrenty if some thing stops working. so your hourly rate for the build then abit of profit and your looking at a shop bought light price. buy the kit one of my housings and the other bits do the assembly yourself or get a mate to help ( there are plenty of people on here who will help out a STW`er). and you have a light to rival most out there for under £100.


Author: DC Date: 16/10/07 11:01 Wish there was an edit function in this forum. Please ignore that spurious "If a 7.2V pack has enough energy stored to run your lights" in my last post. To sum up - you can't get a quart out of a pint pot. You can use a lower voltage batter pack and a boost converter (e.g. fatman or maxflex) but: 1. You'll need to work out if the run time is enough for your needs. Assume efficiency in the DC/DC converter - e.g. 80%



Assume LED drive current (e.g. 750mA) Assume cutter combined 3 LED forward voltage (e.g. 3*3.5V = 10.5V) Then, power dissipated at LED is (10.5V * .75A) = 7.9W Using DC/DC efficiency, power drawn at battery is = (7.9V/80% * 100%) = ~10W Then (using Iggs' example) with a 6V 3000mAh battery, you'll get a maximum run-time of: Watt-hours = (6V * 3Ah) = 18 Watt-hours Divided by power drawn from battery = (18 Watt-hours/10W) = 1.8 hours 2. Have a back-up light as well as with a boost converter the light will just cut-out when the input (battery) voltage finally drops too low, rather than fading out gracefully as a Halogen (or an LED with a higher voltage battery with a boost converter) would do (*) (*) based on my understanding - I haven't experienced it and my DC/DC converter knowledge is very rusty.


Author: Paddywack0 Date: 16/10/07 11:09 Wow DC That is geeky! But useful at the end. Ta


Author: jobe Date: 16/10/07 11:47 Has anyone put together a Fatman Board and bits, with a 6 or 7.2v battery yet? I would be interested to see the results. Would i be right in thinking that the LEDs would be as bright as a 12v battery??


Author: Clubber Date: 16/10/07 12:21 Yes, just with less run time for the same capacity of cells.


Author: dandag Date: 16/10/07 14:50 or use the led calculator off Cutters website. just doing ballpark calculations, to geta 3hr+ runtime with a boostpuck would require 2 x 3200mah batteries (7.2v) or 1 14.4v 3200mah battery - so much of a muchness


Author: iggs Date: 16/10/07 20:52 From: Mark Riley <[email protected]> To: Ian show details 18:33 (1½ hours ago) Hi Ian Yes funny you should ask we will now release a maxflex kit as issues with the kit appear to have been resolved, we hope to also do so with a dedicated UIB2 Maxflex shortly Cheers Mark > _____________________________________________ > From: Ian > Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 2:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Cree XR-E MR11 Kit with "maxflex"?



> > Good morning, > > I've been looking at your website and I was wondering if its possible to > do one of your kits with the newer maxflex micro controller. I have > existing 6 volt batteries I'd really like to use > > I know there would be other people here in the uk that would find this > very useful as its received a very +ve response on this thread on > singletrackworld > http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3251489&t=3251489 > > It might be possible to get a group of us to order at the same time > > Thanks > > Ian Also looking at the maxflex manual there is an option to set a low voltage warning/ cutoff/ low power setting to protect batteries and get you home with at least some light Have a look here http://www.taskled.com/maxflex.html for more info Thanks for the replies to my battery questions folks, really appriciated Now another question: I think my aliuminium cateye head units will do the job brilliantly but I think I'll need to mount the board that the led's sit on onto another disc 40mm in diameter. Will glueing a thin ali plate onto the back of the board cause any connection problems (I'll drill out the connection point areas nice and clear anyway (obvious old skool weight saving tactic too)) Also what glue would be suitable as its going to have to deal with the heat, help conduct the heat onto the housing to enable cooling and also not cause any problems with electrical circuits while coping with the rigours of being rattled around Another couple of numpty wiring questions 1. what type and rating of wire would be suitable for carrying the power from the battery input to the board. I assume it would be the same rating from the board to the led's. Flexibility is not going to be an issue with the way I'm going to construct it 2. what wire for the toggle switch to the board. Flexability will be important for this one Havent quite worked out how and where to mount a warning led yet but I'm keen to just so I can make the most of ALL the features available. Pointless but a nice challenge. Ian


Author: trout Date: 16/10/07 21:39 re wire question I have used a usb cable I had for my cree triple , it is flexible and nearly armoured with an outer shielding ,has 4 cores so you could run the bflex ,or fatman remote near the battery to make a smaller head unit or use the extra cores to use a remote switch. I have had no problems so far with this cable.


Author: jobe Date: 16/10/07 22:24 Thats good news, nice one iggs!


Author: iggs Date: 16/10/07 22:35 Self build kits available from here http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/ New Zealand though :-S


Author: hecklerdave



Date: 16/10/07 22:38 Anyone else want to comment on brightness? Some say brighter than HIDs, others similar to a 20W halogen. I'm already running a 20w and 35W over-volted halogens and want more light: I know I'm greedy! thanx


Author: Evesie Date: 17/10/07 12:12 Anyone give me an idea of ordering times & whether they had any problems with drivers from TaskLed? Thx.


Author: biffer Date: 17/10/07 12:44 Mine was despatched from stock by Cutter on 30th Sept but it hasn't arrived yet :(


Author: higgo Date: 17/10/07 14:25 Biffer I hate to be the harbinger of doom but mine were ordered 8th Oct and arrived yesterday.


Author: biffer Date: 17/10/07 15:11 Thanks for that Higgo ;) I am hoping that mine is stuck in a sorting office somewhere and will be delivered tomorrow...............................


Author: Kaitsu Date: 17/10/07 15:46 Mine was also shipped 30th September and I haven't got it yet I have noticed that Lumicycle remote switches change the wires polarity; before the switch minus is in the inner pin of the connector, after the switch plus is at center. Remotes were the older ones with up and down movement of the lever. I have two of them, both were the same. Anyone noticed same?


Author: higgo Date: 17/10/07 16:18 Maybe mine arrived in the UK post system after the strike so whizzed through?


Author: Clubber



Date: 17/10/07 16:35 Well I've bitten the bullet and just ordered one - UIB2 bike model. fingers crossed...


Author: Evesie Date: 17/10/07 17:08 My question was - has anyone bought direct from Taskled as they appear to sell the drivers direct & at $10 or so cheaper than Cutter, so why has everyone gone to Cutter? Am I missing something?


Author: deus Date: 17/10/07 17:17 Ordered mine last thursday, paid the $17.95 for airmail and it arrived today. still, now have to pay £12 duty on it though :( still gives me something to do at the weekend :)


Author: dandag Date: 17/10/07 17:20 I have a cree helmet torch FS in the classifieds


Author: DC Date: 17/10/07 19:51 Evesie - The reason why people are shopping at cutter (at least, in my case) is because they are a one-stop-shop for the complete retro-fit kit for a MR11-sized lamp (e.g. Lumicycle): - taskled board (bflex/fatman/maxflex) - Q5-bin Cree LEDs (x3) mounted to a metal PCB that provides pretty good heat transfer - 35mm optic Yes, it does seem odd that the bflex is shipped from US to Australia and then to here, but for me the convenience of a single order when the entire kit costs £46 (AUS$100)(didn't get stung for import tax/handling luckily) was more attractive than trying to source stuff individually.


Author: chrism Date: 17/10/07 22:19 If you're interested, I've bought drivers direct from Taskled - very easy it is too. Just put an order in for a Maxflex. Of course I'm not (at the moment) interested in the other bits of the kit.


Author: iggs Date: 18/10/07 08:07 I have a question on the way a NiMH battery behaves as it discharges and at what level the emergency low power options that warn and then auto select 'the get you home' low power lighting on the maxflex and bflex boards should be set at. On current maxflex board there is just one setting, on the bards with the UIB2 firmware there are 2. Is it possible to identify a percentage of the rated voltage to set these too? Initially I'm likely to be using 6volt NiMH batteries but will be likely to move to 7.2volt RC batteries in the nearish future Thanks



Ian


Author: biffer Date: 18/10/07 08:38 iggs - good question, I was going to post the same question about my Lumi NiMH battery which is a higher voltage at 13.2v. Any help would be appreciated.


Author: trout Date: 18/10/07 09:04 In my experiance . My battery is a 2.400 ma h ni-hm 14.4volt drill battery. we rode for 2.15 hours the cree triple would be on all the time but not on high . on high for about 1.75 hrs the rest on med. When I returned home I switched to high to see how much longer it would last the bflex went out of regulation after 1 hr 15 mins and the light went to direct drive which was still brighter than my blackburnx6 lights. I then got bored after another hour still with good light and switched off and went to bed . there is an emergency low power in the uib2 which is still useable and would last for the rest of the night . so with the Bflex you will never be left in the dark unless something breaks.


Author: iggs Date: 18/10/07 09:38 So am I working this out correctly With the bflex running 3 cree's it would switch to direct drive at 10.5 volts and continue to run for quite a while I make 10.5 about 73% of 14.4 So would setting the emergency low power and warning options at about 75% of battery rating be a sensible thing to do or would it be better at about 80 to 90%. This is more important on the step up/boost drivers (fatman & maxflex) as my understanding they won't switch to direct drive as the battery flattens and will just suck it dry until it just dies without warning.


Author: trout Date: 18/10/07 14:16 my take on this is the 3 crees need approx 11.1v the bflex needs 1.5v total 12.6v so I assume it goes to direct drive about 12.6v when there is not enough juice to run everything


Author: DC Date: 18/10/07 20:41 Another essay in response to the last few posts.. The forward voltage of the LEDs (Vf) varies with current. From the datasheet (http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLamp7090XR-E.pdf): @ 350mA, Vf = 3.3V typical, 3.9V maximum @ 700mA, Vf = 3.5V typical, no max specified but might be as much as 4.14V extrapolating from the 350mA figures @ 1000mA, Vf = 3.7V typical, (as above, max might be estimated as 4.37V) So, at 700mA, the 3 LEDs might together have something between 10.5 and 13.11V combined Vf.



You then need ~1.5V across the bflex (same for maxflex??), so between 12 and 14.61V. Iggs - the voltage of NiMh batteries doesn't decrease linearly. See page 7 of this: http://www.hardingenergy.com/pdfs/NiMH.pdf The voltage has an initial, fairly quick, drop from 1.5V to 1.28V(*). It then remains pretty much constant until towards the end it drops away again. You can decide where on this curve you want set your warning level – perhaps 1.0V? For a 7.2V (6 cell), threshold would then *theoretically* be 6V. However, since each cell in your battery pack will have some difference in its discharge profile, it will probably involve a bit of trial and error to find the best practical warning level. The discharge profile also varies with the level of current drawn. (*) People often describe NiMh as “1.2V” batteries. However, their peak is actually about 1.5V. They do spend most of their discharge cycle at about 1.2V, hence the association.


Author: iggs Date: 18/10/07 21:25 Thanks DC That answers the question in my mind. I guess because they are not linear and have the characteristic sudden drop off of rechargable batteries its actually a bit easier to set the warning voltage as as soon as they drop off their standard voltage they are probably 75% (timewise, not power) used so having a warning and low power option kicking in then will get me home I guess I'll start with about 5 volts as the warning on my 6 volt batteries


Author: Kaitsu Date: 19/10/07 10:01 Mine arrived today here in Finland :)


Author: chrism Date: 19/10/07 15:01 You can decide where on this curve you want set your warning level – perhaps 1.0V? That's a good level to set for the cutoff, as NiMH are pretty much dead at 1V per cell, and as soon as you go lower than that with a battery you risk cell reversal in a weaker cell. If you want a warning of them being almost used you need to set it a bit higher (I'd suggest 1.05 to 1.1V depending how much warning you want, given the voltage does drop fairly rapidly once it gets to 1.1V). Hence given the need for 12V to stay in regulation and a typical 12 cell (14.4V pack), the unregulated direct drive mode isn't actually that much use.


Author: Kaitsu Date: 26/10/07 09:16 I made some efficiency measurements with led-tech.de PowerLines and Blfexs:



PowerLines seems to be unefficient:

For the project I found some old copper pipe:



After some tooling and filing:

Pipe, Bflex and Cutter plate fits in Lumicycle housing but are very thight:



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The switch is the original one, it works if your are fast enough, I didn't got the new one yet. And with 1 amp the housing will be hot... Next some riding and then the other one :)

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Your Name: Kaitsu

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Subject: Re: Cutter 3xCree Lumi upgrade - Pics!

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singletrack - mountain bike magazine page 1 of 43 · the kit is £46 (including postage) and...

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