STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA

J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

OH 657/9

Full transcript of an interview with

JOHN EARLE

on 6 January 2003

By Karen George

Recording available on CD

Access for research: Unrestricted

Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study

Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the State Library

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OH 657/9 JOHN EARLE

NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT

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3

J.D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION, STATE

LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA: INTERVIEW NO. OH 657/9

Interview with Mr John Earle recorded by Karen George at Seacombe Gardens,

South Australia, on 6th

January 2003 for the Adelaide City Council Balfour’s Oral

History Project.

TAPE 1 SIDE A

This is an interview with John Earle being recorded by Karen George for the

Adelaide City Council’s Balfour’s Oral History Project. The interview is taking

place on 6th

January 2003 at Seacombe Gardens in South Australia. First of all

I’d like to thank you, John, for agreeing to be involved with this project and

agreeing to an interview. Can we start by you telling me your full name?

It’s John Leonard Earle.

Whereabouts were you born, John?

It was somewhere in Unley.

What’s your date of birth?

Seventh of the second 1950.

Can you tell me a little bit, perhaps, about your parents? I understand your dad

was also in the cooking area?

Yes. He’s done a lot of things through his life. He was a shearers’ cook. He went

overseas in the Army and he’d worked for Kidman, the cattle baron – so he tells me,

or told me – and he had a property over in the West Coast, and he was married twice,

you know, so like before the War and also to my Mum. And when he came back

from the War cooking was what he knew so he got a job in – what is it? – Daws

Road1. Then he transferred to the Royal Adelaide Hospital and I thought, well, that

would be a very good job to get into. But it sort of come down to it, at that stage in

the government, they wouldn’t allow father and son to work together. So he knew a

few people and he got me a job in one of the bakeries. At the time it was Cowley’s,

and it was down on Cross Road, and it was a small place, and I worked there till

about Easter and then – – –.

How old would you have been then? Where did you go to school, for a start?

1 Daws Road Repatriation Hospital.

4

Oh, three or four different places. Started at Westbourne Park, then Colonel Light

Gardens, then Magill, then – at the time it was Wellington Road, but now it’s called

Maylands Primary School, and then when I got too old for that I was transferred to

Flinders Street which is no longer in operation. And when I’d got to the required age

I left school. (laughs)

Did you then – is that the thing you’d always wanted to do, to be a cook like your

dad, or had you other ideas what you wanted to do?

Well, I suppose in hindsight I think gardening might have been quite good too, but

with cooking you sort of – you can mess around with different flavours and that, and

it’s sort of making something – doing a good job, and knowing that you’ll achieve

something that is really special. It’s sort of like you can achieve a standard like that,

you’re sort of – that’s applicable with Balfour’s because that’s what they had strived

for for the length of time that they’d been running. That’s part of the reason why I

wanted to be a cook, because I sort of could – I know what I like. (laughter)

So tell me about – what were you doing at Cowley’s when you first started out

there as a cook?

Well, I used to help the person that made the yeast, used to be his – ‘Weigh this’ or

‘Measure this’ or ‘Go and get this’. And then, after he’d finished with what he

needed to be done, then I’d go and wash all the – go to the scullery, or some would

call it ‘washroom’. It seemed very hard for a young lad or that, just washing all

these big containers. It sort of seemed very monumental. That was – I think if I’d

stayed there longer I would have – if I’d stayed there, say, twelve months, I would

have got moved on to something else. Then there would be another young lad doing

the same thing I would doing and I’d be probably giving him heaps, and so on.

So how did it come about that you left there?

Well, I had an industrial accident. Not being experienced with – I was cutting a tin

of baker’s syrup, which goes in some of the yeast goods, and when I opened this tin,

which was – in the old terms it was seventy pounds which, for a young fellow, was

quite heavy – and I’d got this tin open and it was fairly jagged, and the tin slipped.

But not knowing that if it had slipped you let it go, but I decided, ‘Oh, I can’t waste

that,’ so I caught it. So what happened? It cut my fingers open and one of the things

with the insurance, when you got better they let me go. I know, but this was the way

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things worked in those times. So I was lucky enough to – went around to Myer’s

bakery and I also applied at Balfour’s, but for some reason they said at Myer’s, ‘Oh,

you’ve got a job. When can you start?’

So was that in the Myer’s department store?

No.

No, it was a different – – –?

No. The bakery was where the old Ellis’s Bakery was, it was where the Embassy

Ballroom is – well, was. Well, still is.

Is that Grenfell Street?

Gouger Street. And it was the bottom – basement and ground floor – and a little bit

of the stuff was up on the first floor. And they had a very antiquated lift and it was

sort of like hand operated. (sound of door closing) And you used to have to wash

fruit, wash the vegies for the pasties, and in the morning I’d also have to cook

Kitchener buns and at a certain time clean out the fat things that I’d cooked the

Kitcheners in, and also had to keep the guy that was making the yeast happy. And

also I was working on pasties there, and they had a different setup. They had sort of

you’d roll out pastry and you would get an ice cream scoop in a big bowl and sort of

fill all these up, and then you’d sort of bend these over and you had about eight of

these, and then you’d just pick them out and put them on trays, when the same

process would happen. And also I worked on their pies. They had two separate

machines, one which stamped the pies out with a – deposit the pie meat – or no, I

think that was for fruit pies. The pies, they had sort of framework, and you sort of

put pie meat in and then rolled out pastry on and then sort of get the trimmings off,

and that was how we did the pies.

So it was pretty much all by hand, then, in those days?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Myer’s used to make quite good yeast. There was a young

doughman – and he works for Balfour’s now, he’s Barry Trotter – he used to make

wonderful yeast. However, that’s a long story.

So how did it come about that you left there and ended up at Balfour’s, then?

6

Well, for some reason I heard one of the bosses say – I think he was going on

holidays, and he said to his other partner, ‘I don’t want to see him here when I get

back.’ So I don’t know what the story was. And I was dismissed, and so one of my

mates took me around to Balfour’s, went for an interview, and I was only out of –

had one day off and the hiring person come round and asked me did I still want a job

there. And he said, ‘You can start,’ sort of like the next day. So I came in and I had

a job there for all these years.

It’s up to nearly – what? – thirty? This is 1968 that you started, was it?

Yes, roughly. Yes.

What do you remember about your first day on the job?

Well, I was brought down to where I was supposed to be working, introduced to the

ladies that I’d be working with, and I was shown what I was supposed to do.

Which was what?

Sort of working on a biscuit machine that was stamping out bits of pastry for all

these different lines that we were making at the time, like custards, custard tarts, fruit

pies, some of the older things that we don’t make no more.

Like what sorts of things?

Almond tarts, fruit creams. I think those are the only things that we don’t make now.

We still make macaroons, still make custards, fruit pies. We still make jelly tarts.

We don’t make blackcurrant tarts, we don’t make raspberry, apricot and lemon tarts

– they’re too fiddly now.

In what way were they fiddly?

Oh, I suppose I don’t think they were really fiddly. It’s more that people’s idea of

things have sort of changed, you know, they just don’t want a raspberry or apricot or

lemon tart any more; they want something more adventurous. And on these different

tart machines we used to do mince pies and also we were making fruit Christmas

puddings on them and fruit mince pies. And I think on a good day it was roughly

three to six racks a day, and that was a lot of hard work as well as everything else we

were doing.

7

So can you describe that machine – is that still operating now or is there

something new?

Oh, no, no.

What did it do?

It was virtually an old biscuit machine. You’d probably see them in a very old

factory. They’re about that long –

So that’s – what? – a metre or a bit longer?

– yes. The type we had, it didn’t have sort of a lever, but Myer’s bakery had one and

they used to make biscuits on it, because virtually what we were using was a biscuit

machine.

So what would you be doing? Feeding pastry in, or what – – –?

Yes. Put pastry in the hopper and you have adjustments, whatever you were making

at the time, and you’d have your trays on the side and it sort of adjusted to a certain

thickness, and when you knew you had your right thickness you’d pick up the pastry,

put them in the foils and then put them back in the rack ready for girls to stamp them

out, and then when you’ve finished with them they’d go into the ’fridge for the next

day. And then, when all that’s finished, you’d clean up. And with certain days

you’d either be sorting out trays or collecting the rubbish, and another day you’d be

helping washing the floors. We were very clean in those days. Oh, we still are.

And then they thought this was getting too busy for them, so they got another

machine which was called the Mateline, and that’s seen the demise of these Banker

machines which we used to have a perfect product every time and there wasn’t very

much waste. But got a bit disgusted when you could see all the waste. But these

sort of machines, if you get your hand in the way and the die comes down you can

get your hand caught, and one of these days, this particular day, one of the girls

happened to get her hand caught with the big flan die on. Yes. And it’s sort of like

one of the unfortunate things that happened, and you could see the anguish on her

face. And there was still a bit of heat in the die at the time. So you sort of had to

manoeuvre – move the die up so that they could get the person’s hand out. And I

think she came out all right with that.

That’s the Mateline machine you’re talking about?

8

No, no.

It was the old – – –.

This was on one of these small ..... machines.

Oh, the old – oh, okay.

Yes. Actually, a woman got her hand caught in the Mateline machine too, and you

ever heard a pig squeal, she squealed like, and you could see her hand caught, and

this was sort of a big cylinder and every so often there was a band and she had her

fingers under the band. And I can’t remember how they got her out of that, but I

think they just cut the metal band to get her to release, because there was no way of

moving it back because the pain would have – so I think they just cut it very quickly,

and that sort of got her out.

So were there many accidents like that in those early days with the kind of

machinery you were using?

Oh, some of it – no, not really. We sort of just knew the limitations. You sort of just

watched yourself what you’re doing and you seemed to be more aware, and there

didn’t seem to be very many accidents. It was just when you wasn’t concentrating

on what you’re doing. It seemed the safer you try and make machinery there’s

always some way that someone can find a way of – if the machine, you say a

machine’s safe enough, someone will find a way of saying it’s not safe, and then

there seems to be an accident because they’ve gone that little bit further. And some

of the things we used to get away with you cannot get away with now. It just would

not be – the safety people would close a big company like that down by now if we

tried to do what we did in the old days.

Can you give me an example of what you mean?

No, I really can’t. I could, but as I’m still working – – –. It’s sort of what you can

get away with. Because also I’m on Safety Committee I can’t really divulge what

was done because it’s sort of on a ‘need to know’ basis.

So can you say that, in general, the safety regulations in the factory changed over

the years from when you started in ’68 to now?

Oh, yes. We had to change because we had to comply with the rules that were set.

If we didn’t – – –. We just had to go by the regulations and make the machinery safe

9

according to the rules. And (coughs) many of the old machines just wouldn’t pass

because – (coughs) excuse me.

That’s all right. (interviewee drinks, returns glass to table) So tell me a little bit

about what the factory was like when you first – where did you work initially

when you went in there?

I worked in the cellar of the old part of the bakery, and – now, where did we come

in? We came in, it was sort of like a side entrance. It’s one of the closed doors. We

virtually entered straight into the bakery and then sort of went up to the change

rooms which was up where the decorating section is, and it was over in one corner.

And, well, you’d get changed there, and at that time we didn’t have to wear hats. If

you wore a hat that was your choice, but I don’t think there was any more hair that

was in the products as what there were with what we covered up, you know? But it

seems to be that ‘Balfour’s is a big company; let’s see what we can get out of them.’

And that’s what – people still have a go and say, ‘Oh, we got a bit of hair,’ or

something. Doesn’t seem right because we do have – well, you’ve seen the hats we

have.

I think you said also you used to have a big beard, did you?

Oh yes, yes. And it was – if I could find the photograph, I’ve got one with me in my

whites with the beard on. It’s in amongst my stuff somewhere. But I still had it for

my wedding, so that would surpass as well.

So was it still – you did have to wear white – was there a uniform?

Yes, we still had to wear white, you still had to maintain your uniform to reasonable

hygiene. (tape ends)

END OF TAPE 1 SIDE A: TAPE 1 SIDE B

[So was it still – you did have to wear white – was there a uniform?

Yes, we still had to wear white, you still had to maintain your uniform to reasonable

hygiene.] You had to look clean and that. And when you see some of them getting

round now you sort of think, ‘Jeez, how can you get away with not looking clean?’

But, well, I suppose that’s a sign of the times as well now.

What was the discipline like in those days on those kinds of things if they weren’t

clean?

10

Well, I don’t know what discipline there was with that because I never got chatted

on how my uniform was. It must have been reasonable because I never got spoken

to about it.

Did you ever make any mistakes in those early days that you got picked up on?

Oh, yes, I did get threatened. I was asked, ‘Do you want your job? Do you want to

keep your job?’ And that sort of brought me down a few pegs very quickly. Sort of

got me very sort of scared, so I would say you knew where you stood. And they

were tough bosses, but quite fair.

Who was the boss, who was your immediate boss when you started?

Was it the foreman was Laurie Clayton? And supervisor was, was it Clarrie Gurr?

And was it – and one of the bosses was Mr Wauchope – no, Mr Balfour. And I’m

not sure – he didn’t have a skerrick, he didn’t have any hair on his head at the time.

And you could not pull the wool over any of the big bosses that owned the place,

because they would ask you a question and you’d try to tell them any bullshit they

could sort of say, ‘This, this and this.’ And they virtually knew what the answer was

before you even answered the question. And you couldn’t tell them just anything

because they knew how the factory was supposed to be running.

Did you see much of Mr Balfour on the factory floor? Did he come through?

Yes. That was one of the great things about it. He had a visible presence and that

was carried over when the Wauchopes were in charge. And it does seem a shame

that it did go – they went under, because a lot of the problem was they listened to too

many people that got the wrong information, and they listened to what they wanted

to hear. And unfortunately the place sort of went downhill. And I think we were

very lucky that it revived as well as it did, twice! (laughs) And part of the way

through it they were scared of certain competition. They put us on night shift.

Although the money was good, but it was seven years of – you would sort of think it

was seven years for nothing, and you were missing out on your night sleep. You

would think it was seven years of hell.

What were your hours when you first started?

(sound of door closing) Oh, Jeez – I think it was four o’clock on Tuesday to

Thursday, two o’clock on Fridays, say about three o’clock on Mondays, but I’m not

11

sure about that. That’s going back (sighs) so many years – it’s like a couple of

decades. I know I couldn’t catch a bus in; I was riding a pushbike in at the time

because there was no other mode of transport around.

So when you went to night shift how did your hours change? When did you start

then?

I was at half past ten till very early in the morning. I can’t think of what hour

knocking off time was. It was either half past six or seven o’clock. Something early

like that. There was half an hour off for meal break, so it meant it was early in the

morning that you knocked off, and you would go home and try and sleep and you

seemed to sleep the day away. (laughs) And you didn’t seem to – you got up for tea

and watched a little bit of TV and then you went off to work and done it all again.

So I get the idea you didn’t enjoy that particularly?

Oh – no, not really. No.

You said, I think, when we first met that that was for some particular promotion

or something – Bake Fresh, was it?

Yes, it was one of – it was called Fresh Bake. They were frightened of one of the

other competitors, I think. It wasn’t Vili’s; it was one of the other bakeries that they

were frightened of at the time. I think it’s gone out of business, anyway. And I

think we asked the powers that be at the time, ‘How long will we be doing night

shift?’ And they said, ‘As long as it takes.’ So evidently they were prepared to keep

going because they thought they had plenty of money to throw at this to try and

catch the corner of the market. Also a lot of people thought if we stood up to the

people that had made the decision, we would have still been doing early morning and

the place mightn’t have gone under, but hindsight is a good thing.

So was the idea to make the products fresher by cooking at night, or what was the

point?

Yes, yes, it was like you made it that night and when it was baked it would be

packed a few hours later, and then it would go out to the customer. They’d think if

we could get it made a lot earlier and get it to the customer at a certain time, it would

be a lot fresher. But I think because we ended up with financial problems they put

most of us on day shift and we ended up with day rates. Because we started at a

certain time we didn’t end up with the penalty rates. I think that’s still in our award,

12

but they’re sort of not willing to start us at a certain time, because that would still be

there but we now have enterprise bargaining, so I’m not sure if we still have our

penalty rates. I hope so. (laughter)

Well, taking you back to those early years, you said I think that you worked in

that tart machine and that kind of thing for quite some time when you first

started.

Yes. Twelve and a half years. Yes. Oh, they were good times. After a while it

seemed to get boring. (sound of chainsaw outside the building) I was disappointed

because, being on that for so long, it never really gave me a chance at anything else.

Was that usual? Did people sort of come in and remain in the same place?

Oh yes, yes. Some did. If you didn’t feel you were good enough they would put you

on something else to give you a go somewhere else. I seemed to have the grit and

determination to stay on what I was doing, and it sort of come that I was

disappointed because I wasn’t given a go at anything else.

What was the atmosphere like in that little area you worked in in those days?

It was sort of like a little family. It was – what was it? – about nine to ten women,

and true enough, you had your disagreements, but they would stir me up and I would

come in like the tide, get ‘Oh, Johnny, we’re only stirring, teasing you.’ They’d

want me to lift their jam or go and get them something, or lift their macaroons, or

whatever it was that they needed to be lifted at the time.

Was there a lot of heavy labour in those days? What was, for example, the jam in,

what was the jam stored in then?

Oh, big large tins, about this size, about that square.

We don’t have a camera so probably that’s – what? – about a foot, foot and a half,

foot square, or – – –?

About a kerosene tin –

Size.

– yes. Yes, kerosene or very large turps tin. And you used to have to open these

with a metal scraper and a bit of steel. And after that sort of got fairly efficient at

opening these without having any jagged edges. You learned to make it very neat.

So what were you using? Can you describe how you opened it?

13

It was like a metal – like a round piece of steel, and it was hollow in the centre and

the metal scraper, it had a blade, say, a foot long and the handle was about two

inches – now, what’s the modern for – – –?

Five centimetres, I suppose.

Yes. And you would get it in there to pierce it, and you’d go around this tin till you

got this lid off. And if the jam was too stiff you would mix it up with a big whisk,

and then you would tilt it over, lift it up and pour it into these hoppers.

Was it heavy?

Yes, I suppose those days it was. You sort of didn’t worry about it. I suppose in a

way you were impressing the ladies that were there. (laughter) I was young and you

didn’t worry about how heavy it was.

Were you the only man in that area, then, with all those women?

There was a bloke that would mix the shortpaste, and I’d be there – there was

another lady that would work on the machine with me, and when I’d go for my

fifteen minute break or a meal break, this bloke would take over. Otherwise he’d be

making the shortpaste. I also used to take the different racks up when I’d cleaned

up, I’d take the racks up to the ’fridge, make sure there was enough room in the

’fridge to fit all these racks, and you had to put the day and the date. So it was sort

of very early coding of what was made on the particular day. Now it’s gone. We

have what you call ‘shop floor papers’, so you can trace these, whatever product was

made on a particular day (chainsaw starts up again) and in the shortpaste, if there’s

any left over, that has a shop floor paper on it. Anything that’s left over that’s made

on that particular day, you have to fill out a shop floor paper for it, what it is, what

machine it comes from and whoever puts it in the ’fridge, and if there’s a code

number from any other papers that goes on that paper, either how many dishes or the

last of whatever product it was, how many trays, and then that is signed by the

person who’s going to put it in the ’fridge.

So there’s a lot more paperwork now than there was then, or – – –?

14

Yes. But it’s under this HACCP2 accreditation, which we fought very hard to get

and, providing we keep it, it’s many factories or organizations try very hard to get

this sort of accreditation.

What does it mean, the HACCP accreditation?

What does it mean? It’s very long-winded. They have a booklet on it. It’s sort of a

formula for doing all your different paperwork. It goes with hygiene, making sure

that the machinery is all clean and there’s no contamination, and even the clothing.

If some pastry or product is not up to standard, sort of like maybe a cook of pie meat

or something like that could be off, and having this paperwork done you can say,

‘Oh, this particular procedure wasn’t followed.’ You can trace it down and find out

why this has gone wrong with this particular product. It makes everyone

accountable. There is a particular booklet on what HACCP means.

That explains it for me what you mean.

It’s like getting the documentation, and you probably do that in your particular work

as well.

So once you’ve done that twelve and a half years in that same area, what

happened? Is that when the night shift came in that you moved, or what

happened?

No, no. I was transferred over to pastry section because they were making all these

different tart products on this machine called the Mateline, and it didn’t seem to

make it as well as what we were making, but, well, that’s progress. Because they

had plastic belts on this and the foils, they sort of stretched and they didn’t – when

they go to stamp out they were just a bit off-centre. But the new machine is a lot

more accurate. It’s computer-operated, too, so it doesn’t really like hot weather.

So this new machine replaced the Mateline, you’re saying? Right.

Yes.

So was the Mateline an automated machine, or – – –?

Oh, it was to a certain extent, but it did things in the rows of three. I suppose it was

quicker than what we could make the stuff, but all our things were rigid. Theirs

2 Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point (a quality control program).

15

wasn’t, and we might have been slower on our machinery but what they made up in

speed they lost in rejects, you know, stuff they threw away. And it was sort of like

research into certain machinery was buying the wrong machine for the job. But

that’s another story. And actually some other company’s bought that machine.

(laughs) Yes.

So what was your job on that machine? What did you have to do?

What, on the – – –?

Once you moved to the Mateline?

Oh, I wasn’t put on the Mateline. I got to work on pasties and I got to work on the

pie machine and also I was given a stint cooking pie meat and a few different jobs,

also mixed the veg for the pasties and that.

I’ll just turn the tape over and we’ll talk a bit more about those jobs.

END OF TAPE 1 SIDE B: TAPE 2 SIDE A

This is the second tape of an interview with John Earle being recorded by Karen

George for the Adelaide City Council’s Balfour’s Oral History Project. The

interview is taking place on the 6th

January 2003 at Seacombe Gardens in South

Australia. So you were talking about some of these different jobs that you were

doing – can you describe, I guess, each of those things as to what your job would

be?

Well – – –.

So you started with the pasties, you said.

Yes.

What were you doing?

Well, learn pasties – now, at the time I was like scrap person, so I’d be halfway

down, I’d be watching that the pasty would go through just right, and I’d have to

watch that the scrap didn’t build up too much. We had a table that you’d tip the

scrap on and you’d sort out to see there wasn’t any vegetable back in it, then you’d

take this container up to whoever was making up the slabs of pastry so they could

put it through the dough break.

So it was recycled in a sense?

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Oh yes, yes. Didn’t waste too much. If the machine was working properly you

wouldn’t waste – you’d waste very little pastry, yes. And this table, it was a

standard table, and it had a bit where you had – a little part of the table was a bit

lower and this was on wheels, so we had the table there for years.

So that was all done manually, that sorting.

Yes. Then, at some later stage, I got to work on the dough break with a very good

baker. He was a funny character, too.

Who was that?

He was called – he was an old German, he was called Gunther Witt. And he used to

tell us that he was in the German navy, and he was on certain warships. It was quite

interesting what he’d done through the War. And there was another guy who ran the

pasty machine who was a Dutchman, George – I can’t remember his other name, but

it was George – and he was a funny character, too. I think they’re both passed away

now.

Were there many people from migrant backgrounds working in Balfour’s at that

time?

Oh yes, yes. There was quite a lot of Italian ladies. There’s not too many there now.

There’s quite a few New Australian men, sort of Maltese, Italian, English. Sort of a

very big melting pot. And there a was certain time that you knew what you – certain

time you were going to get out, and you all worked to get out. If one machine was

running a bit late you would go and help them out, but it doesn’t seem like that

happens now. It’s sort of ‘all for one and one for all’, but now it’s lost that sort of –

it seems to be everyone for themselves at the moment. It’s one of the things that is

lost and I don’t think they’re going to get that back.

Why do you think it’s been lost? How has that happened?

Well, we’ve lost some of our enthusiasm. We knew we were on a good wage at the

time and you didn’t really want to be there any longer than you really had to. But

you knew that you work hard. When there were holidays, like Christmas or New

Year, they would let you out either an hour or two, which they have started to do that

again. And I’m not sure what happens with that, but it is something maybe I

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shouldn’t be saying, because it’s (pause) – no, I don’t think I should say any more

about – – –.

Yes, that’s fine, we can let that go. So tell me – you were talking a little bit about

that working together. Can you give me an example of what it was like in those

days?

Yes. There was a time we didn’t have – we would make Naps3 on – we’d put the

trays on a great big table and you’d roll pastry out. We’d use the pasty rolling pins

which – – –.

What’s a pasty rolling pin?

A big long one, a big long one. And you’d have two people, you’d go down one end

and all that, and you would have a couple of people with sort of hand rollers with all

spikes in, and you would go all over this pastry, put holes in the pastry, and then

you’d go down and cut these trays – where the trays joined you’d put a knife cut

through them. And then you would pick all these trays up and put them in racks,

then you’d repeat the process until you’ve done this, and then this would be nearly

the last job, and when all that’s done then you’d be able to clean up and pretty well

go home. And that would be, say, about a dozen, about a half a dozen people doing

that, and it’s surprising how quick that would end up being done.

So they’d come from different areas and help to finish that off, type of thing?

There’d be different people in the pastry area at the time. If you didn’t have a

particular job to do at the time, the foreman or leading hand or supervisor would say,

‘Oh, go and help So-and-so on such-and-such job.’ And you couldn’t say, ‘Oh, I

don’t want to do that.’ You’d say, ‘Yes, sir.’ And you would go and do it. You

mightn’t want to do it but you did it. And it sort of meant that you’d be able to get

out and get home within a reasonable time.

This pastry, you called it ‘Nap’ pastry – what does that stand for?

You know the vanilla slices? It’s used on those and – oh, what’s the other? It has

cake in it and sheets of pastry on top and on the bottom and has raspberry jam, cake

and pink icing on it. I can’t think of the product.

3 Napoleon cakes.

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That’s all right.

But this pastry was used on that as well, and we still make that but, because it’s a

cake product, I’ve forgotten what it is.

That’s all right.

Napoleon.

Oh, Napoleon, right.

Yes. Yes, that’s what it is, yes.

So you’re talking about the foreman and the leading [hand] – who were your

immediate bosses when you were in that pastry area?

Oh. (pause)

It doesn’t matter if you can’t remember. I’m merely looking at what the

relationship was like between the bosses and the people on the floor, I guess.

Was it Chris Paz? He was in charge at that time, and we had another boss, he’s now

just an ordinary worker, he was called Ted Poach. He was a boss there. And we had

a few, was it, foremen – I can’t remember all the foremen. Yes, I can’t remember

them.

What sort of numbers were working in the pastry area? Would this be in the –

you started in ’68 so this would be twelve years on from when you started, would

it?

Yes. That would –

Makes it early ’80s.

– yes, that was when the new part of the factory was built. It was still young, it was

still relatively new, so I was transferred out there and that’s where I sort of like had

to re-learn a lot of other – different skills.

What kinds of things?

Well, till I went out there I hadn’t used a dough break before, and a dough break is a

machine where you roll pastry down from, say, something fairly thick to something a

lot thinner, and it sort of rolls it out and you put it onto rolling pins and you have

enough flour so it won’t stick. And then it can either be put onto either the pasty

machine or, if you’re using the small dough breaks for the pies, it’s usually put on a

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big, long table and half the table would be used for pie bottom and the other half

would be used for pie top. And you had your particular flour bins for flour, and you

had to clean your own machines, and there were times that these dough breaks would

break down and it would put the rest of the machine behind, so they would have to

get them fixed and hope it didn’t take too long to get them fixed. It can be either a

snapped pin or anything that – if it’s something major they’d find you another dough

break to try and keep you going.

You said something when we first met about a wooden dough break. Was that

early in the – – –.

Yes. Oh yes, that was – I used to use that to roll out the pastry. When they mixed

the pastry for certain things they would roll it out, put it through and then roll it back

and then put it in the box, then it can be used somewhere else. Yes. That was a

fairly big dough break, actually. I don’t know where that – that would probably have

been scrapped many, many years ago, but it could even be a museum piece

somewhere. Yes. I don’t know where – like I said, I don’t know where that is.

So in that pastry area you said the different things you were doing. You also

talked about doing the vegetables and the meat for the pasties and the pies. Tell

me a bit about what you had to do for those jobs.

Well, with the pasties you would have – your potatoes would come in with the skins

and all that on, and the veg – like the turnips, carrots and pumpkin and all that –

would come in. You would have so much that you would have to put through the

potato cleaner, and that would be separate, and then in the morning it would be diced

up and then mixed up. You would add so much meat, so much seasoning – the

pepper and all of that – and starch – I forget the recipe – but to have it mixed up it

was – you would cough and splutter and they had salt and ascorbic acid and other

things in it. The pie one was just as bad because it had sort of a pepper thing in it

and I think that’s the problem with some of the allergies now, because of some of the

stuff you inhaled. But that was part of doing things.

What were you mixing that in, in those days?

Big mixing bowls – I mean, they called them ‘Z arm mixers’. They’re illegal now

because they’re too dangerous. (sound of distant lawn mower approaching) You

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can get, say, an arm or yourself – something caught, part of your body caught in

there, it’s sort of like an accident waiting to happen.

When you say ‘big’, how big’s big compared to the height of a person, or

something?

Well, the bowl would be roughly the length of the table around –

About a metre and a half or something, two metres.

– yes, and it would be, say, about that deep. I don’t know how much pasty filling

would be in a bowl at the time, but it used to work out you used to – one of the

blokes, he used to put in extra potato and he would add extra and you seemed to be

doing about a half a bowl extra or certain days it would work out about a bowl extra

a day. And if you had a busy day by the end of the week you wouldn’t be doing as

many. It worked out great when you were doing promotions. Yes.

So were you loading that in manually?

No. We had a pump sort of situation where you’d take a bowl over to this pump and

you would pull it down into it and switch it on, and if it was mixed up properly it

would start sucking it up through the pipes and that. If you hadn’t mixed it properly

it sometimes would take time to, and you would get told a few choice words about

how good you’d done your job. So you made sure that you did your job properly,

(coughs) because in the long run, if you weren’t quick enough, it held up them

downstairs and it meant your job was going to be longer in the long run as well. So

you learnt to go fast and you made your job – you done a good job by doing it

quickly. And some of the people would be amazed what work we did do, what we

got through, in the old days.

Can you give an example of the workload, I suppose?

It wouldn’t be unusual to do about ten bowls of pasty a day, sometimes twelve a day,

and you also – and also there was a pie machine running and a sausage roll machine

running, so it would be other – and when the pie machine finished that wasn’t the

end of your job. You would have to start rolling pastry for the plate machine. You

would be doing plates, because you know the pasty machine would still be going,

and if the sausage rolls were finished they would have to help on plates or they

would have to start on the Naps. And it was everybody had to work in so that they

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got finished at a particular time. And everybody knew that they weren’t going to get

out until everybody else had finished. And they knew this, so that’s why the work –

sort of everybody helped everybody else so they could get out. They were looking

after their own interests as well.

Tell me a bit about how you felt about working for Balfour’s in those days?

Oh, well, it seemed a pride – it’s very hard to explain, because it’s like you didn’t

blow your banks. I worked for Balfour’s but, you know, you sort of just came to

work, done your job and you had great mates that when you finished, if you wanted

to go for a beer you went for a beer around the local pub.

Was there a regular pub?

Yes. I forget the name, but it’s right on the corner of Balfour’s – if they had

hindsight they should have bought that pub and it would have kept the money in the

company. And you could imagine – they would know where their staff was as well.

And if Balfour’s had bought that pub you imagine that that would be another extra

parcel of land that would have boosted that real estate up even further. Yes.

So that would be a regular thing, meeting at the pub after your shift?

Yes. All depends how busy you were. It would usually be a Friday. Some took it to

new lengths – some would spend nearly every night there, and I think after a while it

affected their marriage and it didn’t go down too well. So I don’t think it helped

their health, either.

END OF TAPE 2 SIDE A: TAPE 2 SIDE B

[Some took it to new lengths – some would spend nearly every night there, and I

think after a while it affected their marriage and it didn’t go down too well. So I

don’t think it helped their health, either.]

So there was a social club, I understand, as well at Balfour’s. Were you involved

with that any?

Yes. Yes, we used to go to dances and – was it? – oh, trying to think where we used

to go. Enfield Civic Centre or something like that. Yes. Now, what did we do? We

had I think it was a dance band. Yes. And we had drinks and had things to eat there,

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and I mean a lot of people went home with – had too much to drink. But we

somehow survived (laughs) that, yes.

When I first arrived I was talking to your wife about Bob Jared, because he was

involved with the social club, and she said that you’d have things to – that you’d

remember him.

Yes, I do remember him, yes, but yes, he ran it very efficiently. But he was in

charge of the decorating department, and he was a very tough boss up there. I never

really had anything to do with him up there, I suppose thank goodness. Probably at

that time I was a bit cheeky too, (laughs) and he would have sorted me out a bit, but

he was very tough. But I suppose the excellence to achieve that a company of our

size, you had to have good, tough bosses. And you don’t remember the wishy-

washy ones; you always remember the tough ones, the ones that they were fair but

they got things done.

Were they tough in your pastry area as well, or – – –?

Yes. They were, but they were only tough if you didn’t do your work or you tried to

bludge on someone else. They would be watching, and it’s surprising what they

managed to see. You couldn’t really get away with anything, they sort of knew

where you were at that time and knew how long the machine would take to finish,

and how long your smoko and how long your meal break was, and when you were

supposed to go for it and when you were supposed to come back. And they didn’t

have it written down; they sort of knew, ‘Oh, So-and-so went at this time and he’s

supposed to be back within half an hour,’ or if it was fifteen minutes – they kept you

to a rigid time, and you couldn’t take an extra five minutes or ten minutes. So they

were on you, they kept you on your toes.

So did you remain in the pastry area through till today?

Yes, I’m still in pastry area, yes.

How has the job that you have done changed, I guess, over the years?

Well, I’m on sausage rolls now. The only thing that’s changed with it – see, now,

with sausage rolls, we’ve got a block processor which takes the place of the dough

break, so you don’t have to roll out pastry for it. So all you have to do is put your

lumps of pastry on and it will just roll it down to an appropriate, thin size. Now, in

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pastry section we’ve got three block processors – one for pasties, one for pies and

one for sausage rolls. So they all do a similar thing. So once you start these up they

go until you finish, or if you’ve got to stop the machine for, say, fifteen minutes to a

half an hour you usually pick a spot on the block processor where you just cut the

pastry and you stop the block processor and then you run the machine out, and when

you start up again you’ve still got some pastry to restart.

So what’s the job that you do with that machine?

What, on sausage rolls? Well, with the block processor all you do is just put pastry

on it, make sure the flour is correct at the time and it’s got to be a desired thickness

(yawns) so that it will run into the machine so it will be suitable so it will take the

sausage meat and also make a good product. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it

doesn’t.

So those machines that you’re working on now, when you move will they be

retained and you’ll still work on those machines?

Yes, well, we’re supposed to be getting a new pasty machine that will do more than

just pasties. It will do sausage rolls and it will do – it’s supposed to do two or three

other things: it will do pasties, sausage rolls and some of the things that were on the

make-up table it will do. And instead of putting them on trays and stacking them on

platforms and putting them in the ’fridge, it will sort of go straight into the oven,

baked, cooled, then wrapped and then into a holding ’fridge, all in that particular

time. So it will eliminate a lot of manual handling and there will be certain people’s

jobs that will be changing. I suppose my job probably will change as well.

How do you feel about the move, because you’ve worked in that city factory for –

well, you said what, nearly thirty-five years or something?

Yes. Oh, it was something that was going to come, it was just when. (laughs) If

they were going to stay there they would be paying exorbitant amount of council

rates. See, they did own that property so the council rates would still be a terrible

way of going because it’s just prime real estate. And it was good to be centrally-

located, it was a wise move, but times have changed. And I think the water rates – I

wouldn’t like the water rates or electricity bill, either. But I think in the long run

we’ve got to be environmentally smarter. I’m not sure how, but I think if we could

set a precedent for that you could get a lot of things happening through an eco-

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friendly factory. I would like to see endemic plants that come from the area that

we’re going to around the factory, not something that’s introduced like, say, palm

trees or that. But the thing is I don’t know what would have grown in that area, but

there is a lot of information that would make it very environmentally friendly.

So looking back over the time you’ve worked for Balfour’s, what stands out for

you from the experience?

What stands out from that? (sighs) Well, I think the greatest strength that stands out

is all the different workmates that you’ve had over the years. You know, some you

mightn’t appreciate so much, but there was quite a few that will go the extra mile for

you and when you – times of strife they will help you out, and that’s where are the

strengths of the company. It’s the different people that – different backgrounds,

what they come from, where they come [from]. They sort of would help you and

probably not expect anything done for them, but it does help if you are able to help

them in some way. What goes around comes around, and it does – I think that’s one

of the strengths of our people that do work there, and when you hear of a person

that’s had an accident or something like – – –. One of the lads that’s working in our

section, he was involved in one of the accidents over the Christmas-New Year, and

the other person died in that accident and he’s in hospital and he’s got a long way to

go. And I don’t know how long it will be before he’s – we think that he’s got to

virtually re-walk again, and I don’t know how we’re going to respond to help him.

And he’s just one of the apprentices, one of the young lads, and I sort of think,

‘Well, I was that some years ago,’ and it touches you because they say, ‘Oh, did you

hear about Such-and-such? He was involved with an accident.’ ‘Oh! Oh, was he?’

‘Yeah.’ And it sort of goes back. You hear, ‘Oh, Such-and-such had a heart attack,’

and there’s just case notes of what’s happened in the last two or three months. And

you also hear of different people have other different ideas of lifestyle that work in

the factory, and you sort of think, ‘Oh, yeah?’ So like it is, it takes all kinds to make

it a real different mixture.

So would you say – you talked about that family atmosphere: do you feel that’s

still there to a certain extent, or – in the way that you’re talking about all these

people from different backgrounds working together?

Oh, I think at the moment it has lost a bit of its shine. It’s still there somewhere, but

it sort of needs to be rekindled. But as it is, I don’t know how it would be rekindled.

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I think you just try and work from day to day and that’s all you can do. Yes. Yes. I

think a couple of the bosses have helped in a way, sort of giving us a bit of a helping

hand, and by them doing that we’ll be expected to give them a helping hand when it

is most appropriate, like when the overtime gets very heavy we’ll be expected to

front up and, ‘Yes, we’ll do the overtime, Such-and-such.’ Yes, that’s like where the

family atmosphere comes, it’s like the people in charge helping the people that are

on the work floor. That’s where the family atmosphere – yes.

Well, I’ve come to the end of my questions. Is there anything else you’d like to say

about your many years with Balfour’s?

Yes. I sort of think when it comes to retirement I don’t think I’ll be working any

longer than I have to. Some have had the option of working well over the age of

retirement, but I don’t think there’s the inclination to do that these days.

Why has that changed?

It’s atmosphere, you know, that they don’t – it’s lost that sort of feeling of – it’s very

hard to explain. It’s like the awareness that, you know, you don’t really want to stay

there any longer than you really have to. Yes. Yes, I can’t think of anything else

that – – –. (laughs)

Well, I’d like to thank you very much for your time today. It’s been really

interesting to hear the changes you’ve witnessed over your many years, and I wish

you luck with the move and hope that you still have a nice job! (laughs)

Well, I’m a survivor, you know. Long as I do my job I’ll still be there. If not, well,

they’ll find me something. Yes. I’m not fussy.

Thank you very much, John.

That’s all right.

END OF INTERVIEW.