DEPOSITION OF TERRIE WEBB 12I0Il10

IN THE CIRCUIT COURTIN I\.ND rOR ESCIIHBII\. COUNTY. FLORIDA

STATE OF FLORIDA,

Plainnff.... CASE NO.' 2010 CF 002822 ADIVISION: -r-

ZANE DALTON CROWDER,

-----'--'--'-'-'-'-'--- 1

V~OSITION OF TERRIE WEBB

Taken On Behalf of the Defendant

DATE TAUI(,TIME:PLACE,

Wl!dol!sday. Dl!cembez 8, 20102'20 p.~_ - 2:56 p.~.Anchor Court Reportinq229 South 8aylen StreetPl!os4cola, rLo rLda 32502

.a~inatioo of the Witness reported by:

Linda D. Hiller, Florida Prof ..s.sion"l ReporterNotary Public. State of Florida

ANCSCIl CDJRf REPOR1'ZNG22' South Baylen Street

Pensacola. Florida 32502

DPOsmOl\fOfTERRJWEBB 11/0"1.

2FOR TNt

'TATE, )MATT GORDO_. ESQUIRE

(

SSistant Stat. Attorne!'Gull Coa.t Kid'a Bouse3401 ~orth 12th A.enueI'en,u,c:ola, rlor~da )250,)

DI:FEIfD :FOR Tltt

PATklCE C. CASHWELL. ESQUIREAttorney et La ..201 talt Gover~ent StreetPeasacol., Florid. )2502

COURt REPORtEIl:,LZWDA D. MILLER. FPkAlfC"OR COURT REPOATING22' Soutb aayleD StreetPens.cor.. Florid. 32Slt2U50, U2-25 11l-IOG-5U-UO'FAX; f050Hl32-2l0:2vww aC~Otreporters.eo.

-- Www.ancbort.por~.r. coa111$0)4.32-2511

1234567891111131111112212222

DEPOSITION OF TERRIE WEBB 111f11110

INDEX OF TaAMSCRIPT

WITNESS'

TERRIE "'ESB

Direct Examination by Ms. Cashwell. ..... 04

Cross-Examination by Hr. Gordon 28

Redirect Exalllination by Ms. Cashwell ....... 29

Certificate ot Oath. - 31

Certificate of Reporter _.32

-~------------~-------------------P~INTIFF'S EXHIBITS INDEX

DESCRIPTION

NOIiIE

DEFENDANT'S EXHIBITS INDEX

DESCRIPTIO)!

"NONE"

------------------------------~S:rIPULA'lIOlf

.n~orr.por~.r.c~le50)~32-2511

DEPOSITION OFTERRlE WEBB fuel/IO

Whereupon, the Wit:n",,,s,

TERRIE Ji'EBB.

havinq been first: duly sworn by t:he Court Reporter,

testified On her oath as tollows:

THE WITNESS: Yes.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BT MS. CASHWELL:

Q. your name, please?A. Terrie Webb.Q. . ow old are you?A. Fortyone.Q. And where do you work?A. I work for myself.Q. Okay. Where at, what kind of employment?A. I contract from Brian Taylor Equipment

service.Q. What? I'm sorry?A. Brian Taylor Equipment service.Q. Okay. Brian Taylor Equipment service?A. Uhhuh.Q. Okay. And how long have you lived in

Pensacola?A. Urn, since -. well, let's see. I guess

about 35 years.Q. Okay. And how long have you known the

wvw.~ftchorr.port.r co.1850)432-2511

4

DEPOSJTJON OFTER.RIE WEBB IlJOlll8

Levis?A. Urn, about ten years.Q. How did you .. who are you friends with,

Mr. or Ms. Levi?A. Ms. Levi.Q. Okay. And how did you meet Ms. Levi?A. I used to live beside her.Q. And where was that?A. InMayfair.Q. Now, prior to coming in to this deposition,

did she talk to you about her deposition?A. No.Q. Okay. Did she talk to you about anything

as far as what's been going on at court?A. No. I didn't know there was any court done

yet.Q. Okay. How often do you speak with her?A. Once a week maybe.Q. And she never told you that there was

ongoing court proceedings or anything?A. I knew we were -- that we had to do these

depositions to be able to get ready for court.Q. Okay.A. But other than that, no.Q. And what did she teU you about this

222

DEPOSmON OF TERRIE WEBB 12101111

deposition?A. She didn't tell me nothing about this one.

I got the subpoena.Q. Okay. Have you met with Matt Gordon?A. Yes.Q. Okay. And'what did you discuss with Matt

Gordon?A. What Shy told me happened.Q. Okay. Anything else?A. Just what Shyane told me happened.Q. Okay. Have you ever babysat Shyane?A . Yes.Q. Okay. And how often do you babysit her?A. Urn, not a whole lot dUring the school year.

I mean she .. you know, I see her, but as far as, youknow, baby-sitting her, in the summertime I do.

Q. Okay. And how often do you baby-sit her inthe summertime?

A. It's sort of kind of hard to tell. IfDanielle is working, you know, then I watch them whenher mom can't.

Q. So this summer, how many times did youwatch her?

A. This past summer I didn't really baby'sither. You know, she come over and spent tile night on the

www.~nchorr.port.r coa1'50) ".]2-2511

6

dhurskayaText Box------

dhurskayaText Box------

dhurskayaText Box------

IGSa,b2-Bii

DEPOSITION OF TER.RfE WEBB 11101/111

weekends or something like that, you know, but --Q. Okay. So you did not baby-sit her this

summer?A. Well, I baby-sat her, but I guess you'd

call it baby-sitting because she's at my house and I'mwatching her. But she's my granddaughter, so Iconsiderher my granddaughter. So I really don't consider itbaby-sitting. She comes and stays with me.

Q. Okay. Well, how often would she spend thenight dUring the summertime with you?

A. Maybe on the weekends when Danielle wasgetting her house ready, she was there quite often.

Q. And what kind of child is she?A. She was a very pleasant child, very bright.Q. Do you ever take her places or do things

with her?A. Yeah.Q. Okay. What?A. We go to the park. We go eat lunch

sometimes.Q. And where do you guys ~ eat lunch at?A. We go to Subway. Thats her favorite.Q. Okay. Anything else that you guys do

together?A. We go to .. we go to the beach. We go

222

wWY.anchorr.porters.ca.(950.432-2511

DEPOsmONOFTlUU.WEBB 11101111

1 swimming at her old mom's house.2 Q. At whose house?3 A. Danielle's mother.4 Q. Okay. So what's your -- you said you were5 the grandmother, so you're not Danielle's mother. I'm6 trying to understand. Are you Levi's (sic) mother?7 A. No. Ne and Danielle just got really close8 while we lived next to each other, and so we sorta kinda9 ador.ted each other. And I've been with her since ..1 ( weI, I have been with she was born and her1~ little brother since he was born, too.1~ Q. Okay. So you call Shyane a granddaughter1 but she's not?1 A. Right.1 Q. OKay.1~ MR.GORDON: Do you ever refer to each1~ other as, like .. ar~ referred to as a God1! grandmother or an ing like that?1 THEWITNES: rm referred to as Nanna.2( MR.GORDON: Sorry to interrupt.21 Q. (ByMs. CasIlweII) Have you ever beenr arrested?IE A.I~ ~

No.Have you is Webb your married name?Yes.

wv..anchorreport.~.coa1850'432-25J.l

8

dhurskayaText Box

dhurskayaText Box------

dhurskayaText Box------

rDEPOSITION OFTERRlE WEBB IlI0ll10

Q. What's your maiden name?A. (rowe.Q. And that's (R 0W?A. .Q. (ROWE?A. Uhhuh.Q. Known by any other name?A. Howard.Q. And you were married to a Mr. Howard?A. Yes.Q. Not pleasant?A. No.Q. Okay. Anybody else?A. No.Q. What are your like, what are your work

hours or what days do you work?A. , do the paperwork and the filing and all

of that for hi~l all the secretarial work. So, sortof .. because me business is run out of our home.

Q. Oh, okay. So no set hours?A. No.Q. What about Danielle?A. Right now she's working at Subway.Q. Oliay. But at the time of this, wIlat were

her work hours?wwv.anchorraporter . cam

MeQ"

DEPOSITION OF TERRIE WEBB 12/01110

1 A. She had different work hours because _. I 102 was trying to think of what she was doing. I can't3 remember exactly what she was doing, bUt I know that4 they were _. well, at the time, Shyane told me they were5 redoing their house. At the time this happened, I can't6 tell you exactly what she was doing.7 Q. Okay. But she worked?8 A. I think so.9 Q. Did you ever see Zane Crowder baby.sitting1( Shyane?U A. Not personally, no.l! Q. Priorto the date of this incident, didL Shyane .. did you ever see Zane Crowder and Shyane1 together?1 A. Over at Danielle's house whenever I would!~go over there, but it was always --I was going over1, there to visit Danielle and the kids.1 Q. Okay. Did you ever see Shyane on Zanej( Crowder's lap?2( A. Not that I seen.~~ Q. When you would go overto the house, youa said you saw Zane there, Did you ever see somebodYr named .. what's that boy's name?14 MS. CASHWELL: Who is that recip witness15 you've got, Matt?

_ ...- anchor raport.rll . eom._--"!iO)

DEPOSITION OF TERRIE W.BB 12161110

MR.GORDON: William Davis. 11MS. CASHWEll: Thank you. William Davis.

(ByThe Witness) I don't recognize that

123 A.4 name.5 Q. (Bv Ms. Cashwell) Okay. When was the last6 time you saw lane at the levi house?7 A. A few years ago, I guess. Whenever8 whenever I was watching Shyane when they were redoing9 their house .. no, I'm sorry, before that. It was a few1 years ago. I can't tell you exactly when.11 Q. That's okay. We're In 2010 right now. Did1 you see .. well, let me go year by year. In 2010, had1 you been over to the livi house!1 A. Yes.1 Q. And in 2010, when you went over to the levi1 house, did you at any time see Zane there in the year1 201011 A. Not that I know of, not that I can1 remember.2 Q. Okay. That's okay. Now we go a year bad!,21 to the year 2009. In 2009, did you go over to the levi2 house?2 A. Oh, yeah.2 Q. And did you at any time see Zane at the2 levi house in 2009?

vvv.anchorreport.r . coa'8SD)

DEPOSITION Of TERRIE WEBB 12IDJ/IO

WV*.anchorr.port.r._c~(850)432-2511

121 A. Not that I remember.2 Q. Okay.3 A. But I'm not real sure on .. I'm not real4 sure on everything, you know, because this happened so5 long ago ana irs hard for me to remember dates, so irs6 you know...7 Q. We're just talking years. I'm not asking,8 like, about months and days. I'm just asking, like,9 years. Do you remember seeing him at the house in 2008?1 A. I'm sure I did.11 Q. So you remember seeing him in 2008. You

111~ definitely don't remember seeing him in 2010. And then_. 2009, do you have any independent _.1~ A, I'm not sure.1 Q. Do ~ have any memory of actually seeing1- him in '09, thougll?1 A. I'm not sure.li Q. Did you at any time see Zane playing with19 Shyane?2 A. I've seen him over there at, like, a21 birthday party. Ican't tell you which ~l but Idon't2 really want to say he was just playing wim Shyane,2 because it was, you know, a bIrthday party. There was a2' water slide. So evervbodvwas sort of playing.2~ Q. Okay. Well: did you ever see Zane and

dhurskayaText Box------

dhurskayaText Box------

DEPOSITION OF TERRIE WEBB 12101110

Shyane interacting one on one?A. Not that I can remember. I wasn't over

there a loti because I would go over there and get thekids, and tnen they would come to my house.

Q. So dUring the time that you would go getthe kids, that was when Danielle was working? .

A. No. Usually it was either right before shewent to work or somethmg. It was before she went towork.

Q. Okay. So tell me how you would go ~tthe kids, and that would be Shyane and her brotherf

A. Uhhuh.Q. And then, what, you would take them to your

house?A. Yeah, take them to my house or wherever I

was going.Q. Okay. And then they would go to school

from your house or how would that work?A, Mainly that was in the summertime, but I

have had them and taken them to school, you know, some,Not a whole lot. Danielle does that.

Q. What if she's only going to be gone for,like .. I'm trying to figure out what your baby .. Iknow you oon't call it baby sitting, but what yourschedUle would be for watching the kids, I mean?

222

wwv.ancborreporter .coa(850)432-2!ill

dhurskayaText Box------

dhurskayaText Box------

DEPOSITION OJ"T.ERRlE WEBB 12161118

1 A. There was really no set schedule, because 142 if her sister or her mom couldn't take care of the kids,3 you know, or pick them up or take them to school or pick4 em up from school when she needed them, then she would5 call me and I would go and get them.6 Q. Okay: And did you live close to her?7 A. Yeah. lIive within a mile.8 Q. Okay. And then her mom and sister lived

1'19; close to her too?11\ A. They live a lillie bit further away than I11 do.1, Q. Okay. Did you ever go pick up the kids and13 Zane was there?1 A. Yes.1 Q. Okay. And how old was Shyane when youl! would pick up the kids and Zane was there?1, A. Around six. I can't be for sure.1 Q. Okay. 50 she could have been six, couldI have been seven!1 A. Yeah.t1 Q. Okay. Did you ever go to Kristina's house?I A. Twice.I Q. Okay. And when you went to Kristina's~, house those two times, did you ever see Zane there?

A. No. I never went inside Kristina's house.wvw_~nchorr.port.r.~~

ISO) 432-2511

dhurskayaText Box------

DEPOSITION OF TElUUE WEBB 12103111

Q. Okay. Who baby-sits the children more .. 15you, Danielle's mother, or Danielle's sister? Who wouldyou say has those kids more often than not?

A. I really couldn't say because you know, Jdon't know exactly how much they have the kids comparedto how much Ihave the kids.

Q. Okay. Youwould watch the kids if Daniellehad to work, right?

A. Yeah.Q. Would you watch the kids if Danielle had to

go to the grocery storel if she had to go shopping?A. Yeah, if sne asked me to, I would go andget them. Sometimes Iwould go and get them Justbecause Ienjoy having them.

Q. Have you ever watched the kids while she'sgone shopping or grocery shopping?

A. Well, yeah.Q. And it would always be both kids or just

one?A. No, it was usually both of them.Q. Okay. How did tlJey get along?A. The kids?Q. Uhhuh. With each other.A. Oh, they get along good. Brother, sister.Q. Have you ever had any, like, serious talks

www.aDchorr.port.r~.coa1850)(32-2511

DEPOSITION OF T.RRIE WEBB 12I01J1f

1 with them, you know, sitting them down and saying, oka~2 you know you don't steal or here are the Ten3 Commandments? I mean, have you ever sat down and had4 any serious discussions with Shyane?5 A. Yeah.6 Q. Okay. And what topics? Like, what have7 you had serious discussions with her about?8 A. How she needs to act in school so that she9 can make good grades. We have had, you know we've1( had talks aDout all kinds of different things. Don't11 run out in the road, why she should hold my hand going1, through a parking lot. rve always talked freely with13 them aboUt people touching them, you know, things like1 that. If they're uncomfortable, then they need to say1 something.H Q. When you were talkin~ about acting out, how'11; she should act in school, you're talking about how sheII should act with the teacller or how she should act with1 the students?2( A. Telling her to go in, sit down, do her

I V work, don't give them no problems ..LJ Q. Okay. And running out in the road, that's2 pretty self-eXlJlanatOl)'.~, A. That's .. just go over it, just to makeL sure that .. you know, I go over it with every child

wvY.anchorreporters.coa(1150"32-2511

dhurskayaText Box------

;DEPOsmON OF TERRIE WEBB IZIO'IHI

irregardless if they're thirteen years old when they go 17with me anywhere.

Q. And then holding the hand in parking lets,that was because of cars and ..

A. Yeah, just to teach them.Q. And you said and also about toudiing. Is

that bad touches and good touches?A. Yes.Q. Andwhat did you tell her about that?A. That her private areas are just exactly

that, private. And there's very few people that need tobe looking or touching it, and that would be a doctor, aparent. Other than that anyone else who touches herprivate areas that shouldn't, then, you know, she needsto say something.

Q. Okay. Andwhy did you have that discussionwith her?

A. Because I have seven children and I have itwith every one of them.

Q. Do you .. when do you determine a child isold enough for that discussion? like, when did you say,okay, it's time to have this discussion with the child?

A. Well, I've always talked freely with mykids. Mj daughter I had .- I started telling her thatwhen she was three years old just so she would already

vww.ancharr.port.r~.eo.1&.50)432-2511

DEf'OSmON OF TERRIE WEBB 12/01110

get it in her head, you know.Q. Okay.A. Shyane, I probably, you know, probably

started about tile same time.Q. Prior to the date where she comes to you

and she says someone is touching me, had you had anydiscussions with her about Zane?

A. No.Q. Had you ever heard her say anything about

Zane?A. No.Q. Let's tum to the date of this incident.

Tell me what .. why was she over at your house?A. Danielle was .. Danielle and Abe were doing

some work to their house, and so she was at my housewith me and her brother.

Q. Okay. And had she been .. was this, like,the very beginning of the renovations or was this partof .. you hail already had the children ongoing for,like, two weeks?

A. Imean, Ihad had them ongoing for a while,but Icouldn't tell you how long.

Q. But it had been awhile, so it was nothingnew?

222 A. No.

www.an~horr.port.r .~~(850) 432-2511

18

dhurskayaText Box------

www.anchorreporc.ra.ca.18.50'432-2511

DEPOSmON OJ"TElUUE WEBB 121111118

Q. Okay. And did they come just about every 19day?

A. Yeah. In the summer, they would just staywith me. .

Q. All right. So you're baby-sitting andwatching the kids, and then what happens? What are youguys doing that day?

A. We went to WalMart. On our way back fromWal-Mart. we stopped at a convenience store. Mydaughter sat in the car with them while Iran in, andwhen Icome back out, we went home. And it was abouttwo hours, and then my daughter brought her to me andtold me Ineeded to talk to her.

Q. And where did they .. when you guys wenthome, what did those two do or what did the kids do?

A. All three kids went in the backyard toplay.

Q. Okay. And then your daughter came in, andwhat's her name? .

A, Courtney,Q. Courtney. What did Courtney tell you?A. That Ineeded to talk to Shyane.Q. Okay. Where was Shyane?A. Courtney had her by her hand brin~ng her

tome.

dhurskayaText Box------

dhurskayaText Box------

DEPOsrrlONOF TE.RJUI: WEBB 11IO&n'

Q. Okay. So what do you do at that point? 20A. Iasked Courtney what Ineed to talk to her

about, and Courtney told me it's serious. So me andShyane sat down. Courtney went back outside and tookher brother, and me and her sat down and had a talk.

Q. And when you sat down and had a talk withher, you just knew it was serious, nothing else? -

A. That's alii knew is what Courtney had toldme.- Q. And so what .. you guys are sitting there,right? Do you ask her any questions or does she juststart talking to you?

A. Well no I asked her what was going on.She said .. well, She didn't want to talk at first. SoIasked her again, you know, told her to come on, youneed to talk to me. What's going on? Tell me what'sha~ing. Ithought it was regular kid stuff in thebac rd. And then she started telling me about herda s friend, Zane.

Q. Tell me what she told you.A. Now, I got to try to- you know, I can't

remember exactly because it was a while back ago. But2 she told me that her .. she said Do you know my daddy's2 friend, Zane? I said, Yeah. Aiid she said that there2 was something going on and I asked her what. And she

WWW_~~dhorr.port.r.co.(8,50.432-2.511

dhurskayaText Box------