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MENTORING

The Art of Mentoring 1

Harvey: In mythology, Mentor was a friend of Odysseus, or Ulysses in Latin. When Athena, the Greek Goddess of Wisdom, needed to drop a hint to Ulysses, she would take the form of Mentor to do it. Mentoring, as we know it, is hardly mythology. It is a time-honored tradition of helping the next generation of leaders reach their potential.

Let me give you a prime example of how a mentor can change your life. Bernie Marcus is co-founder of Home Depot. Now retired, he was also the driving strategic force in the development of that business. In 1978, Bernie was fired as CEO of the Handy Dan Home Improvement chain. Several years ago, I had a chance to talk with Bernie about that landmark event in his career.

Getting fired can be ugly business. Bernie was ushered into a room packed with lawyers and stenographers. First, a flood of accusations. “It was a bad scene,” he recalled. “They threw me out of my office and put bars on the door. They searched my files. It was pretty terrible, Harvey. One of those corporate things, you know. You hear about them, but you don’t really know what they are until you live through one.” Bernie was 49 years old when this happened. He had never been fired in his life, nor had he ever experienced anything like this.

Bernie told me, “It was the low point of my life. In the corporate world, when someone doesn’t really like you, that’s what happens. Sandy Sigoloff ran our parent corporation, Daylin. Well, Sandy really didn’t like me. By the way, I really didn’t like him a lot, either. He called himself, ‘Ming the Merciless.’ He even had a sign put up over his door to announce it.” Bernie continued, “I’ve never seen anybody treat people the way he did. Sooner or later, he was going to get me.”

Bernie’s near-term thoughts were all about justice and getting even. Then came a meeting between Bernie and one of his mentors. It was Sol Price who brought him around. Sol was founder of Price Club, which has since become part of Costco. Bernie had known Sol for quite a number of years. Bernie says, “Sol was a wonderful guy who shared his philosophies with a lot of people.” Walmart founder Sam Walton, to name another, was also befriended by Sol Price.

Bernie’s personal turnaround got off the ground when Price called him up. He invited Bernie to dinner at his home in San Diego. Bernie went right to the point and told Price, “I’ve made a lot of money for everybody I’ve worked for, but never really made any money for myself. Sandy broke the contract, I want to get back at him. I want to prove that I’m not what he says I am. Right now, I’m suing Sandy for a million dollars. Sandy said, ‘Sue me. And you’re not going to do it with my money. You’re going to do it with your money.’”

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To wage the suit, Bernie was eating up cash like it was going out of style. Eventually, he would be broke. Everybody said he had a great case, but the truth was, the money was going nowhere except into the lawyer’s till. After dinner, Sol said to Bernie, “Come with me. I want to show you something.” They walked into a room with virtually no furniture in it. Instead, there were papers stacked five to six feet high. Bernie was stunned when he learned they were all depositions from a law suit Sol had been involved with.

“He said to me, ‘Here, Bernie, are three years of my life.’” Meanwhile, during this litigation, Sol had opened up Price Club and a friend was running it. The lawsuit was consuming all of Sol’s energies, all of his strength. He told Bernie the hard truth in these words: “Bernie, I think you’re a great retailer. I think you could be very successful and make a lot of money. Why are you spending your young life suing somebody? Why don’t you just forget about it and go on and live your life? Otherwise, you’re going to end up with a room like this.”

Bernie headed back to Los Angeles that night. During the two-and-a-half hour drive, he thought about Sol’s advice. By the time he got home, Bernie decided Sol was right, and just closed the book on that part of his life as much as he could. He launched Home Depot. Today, it’s nearly a $68 billion business. They operate more than 2,200 big-box stores. For years, it was the hottest specialty retailer around. A Wall Street darling. The moral of the story: going out to fix someone isn’t the best way to fix yourself. Bernie Marcus would have never seen the truth of that had it not been for his mentor. The right wisdom, at the right moment. It can make all the difference.

The American conductor James Levine once said, “I was lucky that I met the right mentors and teachers at the right moments.” In Levine’s case, two of those mentors were surely Master Pianist Rudolf Serkin and the conductor, George Szell. Levine was Szell’s apprentice in Cleveland. Levine went on to great success conducting the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and the Boston Symphony. Timing.

Ann Fudge was CEO of Young & Rubicam Brands. Then she received a Presidential appointment to head a national commission. She said the best advice she received from a mentor was, “Don’t chart your career path too soon.” Timing and the proper use of time: you find this to be a continuing thread in good mentoring advice.

Jim Pollard was the Kangaroo Kid of the Minneapolis Lakers before they moved to Los Angeles. Pollard may have been my earliest role model. From how he laced his shoes to how he cradled a rebound one-handed, I



idolized him. Even his running style – and I still run that way today, albeit a tad slower. Who or what is psyching you up? Think about why you are the way you are. Chances are, it has a lot to do with trying to be like someone you admired. You observed and you copied that person’s mannerisms. Sometimes, to win his or her approval, you patterned your whole lifestyle after that person.

You never stop needing role models. When I enrolled at the University of Minnesota, another guiding force emerged for me. Other than my father, this was my first flesh-and-blood mentor, as I was a history major. Professor Harold Deutsch was my academic advisor. He played a role in helping me mature. I took Professor Deutsch’s class on the History of World War II. He had been one of the interpreters at the Nuremberg Trials. To say he made history come alive would be an understatement. He did not teach history; he was part of history.

He was a wonderful mentor to me and made me realize how important it is for everyone to have a mentor in life. The class met every Tuesday and Thursday. You came early because it was SRO – Standing Room Only. And it was not a snap course.

Professor Deutsch and my golf coach, Les Bolstad, were both great mentors. They taught me how to stay focused and to set realistic goals. They also taught me the art of persuasion, leadership, and visualization. A mentor will often help shape fine distinctions in the mind of the protégé or mentee. These are refinements that the mentee couldn’t even imagine beforehand.

In his book, The Winner Within, the Miami Heat President, Pat Riley, talks about the movie, The Color of Money. In this film, Paul Newman’s character encounters a young guy, played by Tom Cruise. The newcomer had just won a very hot game with some flashy, impressive shots and he started crowing about it. Newman sat him down and tried to teach him that a hustler has to know how to lose in order to give him the chance to win big. He told him he didn’t know the difference between excellent pool and pool excellence. And until he learned that difference, he would stay a small-timer.

That’s a sort of breakthrough at which great mentors excel. They push people towards the broader, bigger goal. Business excellence, not just excellent business. Network excellence, not just excellent networking. Leadership excellence, not just excellent leadership. To mentor effectively, you have to command more than a technical expertise. You also have to master the principles of human nature. You have to be able to detect what makes people tick, and what makes them march to the beat of a different drummer – those little edges that enable them to soar.



It’s not easy to automatically understand another person’s mentoring needs. Leaders of the Black Power Movement, for example, provided two important mentors for Muhammad Ali, and the greatest had the capacity to see both strengths and weaknesses. “Elijah Mohammed was a good man,” Ali once said. “Even if he wasn’t the messenger of God, we thought he was. If you look at what other people were like then, a lot of us didn’t have self-respect. Elijah Mohammed was trying to lift us up and get our people out of the gutter. He made us dress properly. He taught good eating habits.”

Similarly, Ali had considerable respect for Malcolm X. About him, Ali said, “Malcolm was very intelligent with a good sense of humor. A wise man. When he talked, he held me spellbound.” Both these leaders helped etch part of Ali’s character: the self-discipline, the poise, the flare for communication.

Now, let’s get to our resource for today’s teleseminar. Greg Reid is the author of The Millionaire Mentor. He is also a film-maker, motivational speaker, entrepreneur, and the CEO of several successful corporations. He has dedicated his life to helping others achieve the ultimate fulfillment of finding and living a life of purpose. In addition to being published in over 42 books and featured on nationally syndicated programs across the country, he is the creator and producer on the internationally acclaimed films, Pass It On and Three Feet from Gold.

His community involvement has earned him recognition all the way from the White House, when former President Bill Clinton commended him for shaping young minds through a local mentorship organization. In addition, Greg is a board member of Executive Books, a printing and distribution company which has circulated over 50 million books worldwide, and advises for various mentoring programs that teach youth to use their talents in order to improve their lives. Roundtable members, I give you Greg Reid.

Good afternoon, Greg, and thanks for joining the Roundtable. Our format is, I’m just gonna jump right in, fire away, and ask you some questions. So, thanks again. I appreciate you being with us. All set, rearing to go?

Greg Reid: Excellent.

Harvey: Okay! No. 1: Why do people call you “The Millionaire Mentor?”

Greg: Well, to begin with, Harvey, thanks so much for having me on and it’s wonderful to be part of this incredible group and association.



I got the nickname, “The Millionaire Mentor,” as a special moniker, living here in San Diego. A lot of people think I mentor millionaires or big corporations with a title like that, but I actually mentor inner-city gang kids in my hometown. And I happen to be pretty successful in business, so as I drive up in the brand new cars and fancy clothes, the kids would say, “Here comes the millionaire mentor.” And it became a badge of honor, to say the least. So much so that I wrote my very first book called The Millionaire Mentor, highlighting some of the youth that I worked with right here, in my hometown.

Harvey: I’ve always been fascinated. I couldn’t wait to hear your answer. That is – that is fantastic, yeah. And working with inner-city kids – there’s nosubstitute for it. I’ve had some experience in my career, also. Nextquestion: What is the definition of a great mentor?

Greg: A great mentor is somebody that will ultimately do the cliché of, “Tell you what you need to hear,” and not always, “What you want to hear.” To me, a great mentor is not a therapist. He is not a coach. He’s not a psychologist. What he is, is somebody to actually be a soundboard of great ideas and inspiration, to actually learn from and grow. And the big thing is to understand that it’s important to surround ourselves with people that are getting the results we want.

So, for myself, when I wanted to become a best-selling author, I went to Barnes & Noble and bought every No. 1 best-selling book. I called every one of those authors up and said, “Will you teach me?” And they did, forty-six books later. When I wanted to become a speaker, I went right to the top: Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy, Dennis Wheatley, Charlie “Tremendous” Jones – said, “Will you teach me?” And guess what, they did.

I realized that most successful people are also the most available. The secret is to reach out and make sure that you’re surrounding yourself with the people who are already doing what you wanna do. Follow their footprints, and you can do it, too.

Harvey: Well, that’s – I love that strategy and those tactics. That’s terrific. I’ve always said from the podium, and people don’t believe me, “There are more people out there willing to help than there are people asking for help.”

Greg: That is absolutely true.

Harvey: And I’ve also said in one of my books that, “Never say no for the other person. You know, let them say no.” So what of course you’re telling our Roundtable members, and their staffs that are tuning in right this minute, is that people go around all their life, “I can’t call him. I can’t sell him or



her.” And of course, you’re – I just love it. Here, you’re calling the busiest people in the country. You’re calling the biggest and the best and you actually reached all those people, I suspect, by just being a hungry fighter and having one hell of a lot of persistence, right?

Greg: Correct. And the secret is, is to honor these people by doing this. People

Harvey:

say – for example, if I went to Les Brown and said, “Les, I wanna be a speaker, like you.” I’d say, “Would you just give me one nugget – one little bit of words of wisdom that I could apply to my own career?” What I would do is actually leave and do something crazy, Harvey. I’d apply it. And then, I’d go back a month later and say, “Les, I met you, I asked for one nugget, you told me what to do. I did it, here’s my results. Let me ask you a question, Mr. Brown. What should I do next?” Well, the chance of him giving me the next nugget is 100 percent.

And more importantly, they feel like I’m actually listening and applying that wisdom, so therefore, they just want to keep giving and giving and giving. And those same people have become my friends over the years, and now they call me and we reciprocate such advice. You know, what’s interesting about following the successful actions of others – recently, I climbed Africa – I went to Africa and climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro. And I live in the ocean level, here in San Diego, California, and people say, “How in the world did you do that?”

Well, I got online and I found every Sherpa that has climbed it, three, four hundred times, and summited. I called and hired those people because I knew wherever they put their boot print, I’d put my boot print because they were gonna make it to the top. If I tried to make up my own path, chances are I’d still be on that mountain. So, the true, successful actions of mentorship, for me on many levels, is just surround yourself with the people who are doing what you wanna do.

What a magnificent game plan. Wow. Well, I’m taking notes, as usual. Next question: Can someone have more than one mentor?

Greg: Oh, that’s a great question. Absolutely! And this is a big, key factor, I believe, that a lot of people are missing out there because for example, when it comes to personal development or being a speaker, for example, I’ve got a great bunch of mentors. And more importantly, when I play tennis, I’ve got one of the greatest mentors in the world who’s teaching me a better backhand. When it comes to financial matters, I’m working with one of the best CPAs in the industry who’s setting me up with a family trust and getting my finances in order.

And that can work for all aspects in our lives. We can have many and multiple mentors. And the secret is to actually look out for people, again,

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that are doing what you wanna do, that are having the ultimate results you want. Get the best – surround yourself with the very best and then just ask them for that simple guidance. And I guarantee if you follow it, you can have those same successful actions, yourself. And that’s all it comes down to.

Harvey: Yes, I love it. I love your passion. I’ve always thought – and I’m sure you’ll agree with, and this is what you said, kind of directly, too – but most people don’t understand that mentors – they change over a period of a lifetime. Most people think that you just have one and you stick with them. They really don’t realize they change over a lifetime. Correct?

Greg: Absolutely, and it’s so interesting you say that. This month, I’m having a sit-down meeting with a mentor that I’ve been working with for the past five years, but quite frankly, I’ve exceeded the goals and expectations of working together. Over these years, I’ve outgrown my mentor in one category. So, we’re sitting down and I’m basically asking for permission to leave that counsel, to remain friends and allies, forever. On the same note, I need to seek a mentor who’s a little bit more qualified in a certain area so that I can expand.

Because the whole thing is our mentors are only people and all they know is all they know and all we know is all we know, so once we outgrow our mentors, that’s a great line. That’s the ultimate respect that you can show to somebody, is that you’re actually applying the wisdom that they’re teaching.

Harvey: I love it. How powerful. Next question: How powerful is it to have the right associations?

Greg: Oh, my gosh. I think that is everything. Charlie “Tremendous” Jones had a great quote, which we’ll talk about in a minute. However, right now, I’ve realized we are a direct reflection of the people we associate with the most, and our attitude, our income, and our lifestyle is the exact average of that group. And when you change that association, our lives will change, accordingly. So, back in high school, if you hung around the smoking section, you’re a smoker. If you hung around the jocks, you’re a jock.

Well, the same thing applies today. If we hang around a group that complains, gripes, and moans, well, chances are that’s the dialogue. When you hang out with associations such as your mastermind association that you have going right here, well, sure, you’d look at the realities of the challenges and struggles but you’re also looking at the solution, the way out. And that is the key demographic, the difference between the doers and the sayers. And to me, it’s so important to surround yourself, again,



with the people that are of positive like-mind so that you can start having those same results in our own daily lives.

Harvey: You mentioned Charlie “Tremendous” Jones. You’re gonna refer to him, again?

Greg: Absolutely. Charlie “Tremendous” Jones was my ultimate idol of all time. He’s the person who first took me under his wing and taught me everything I know.

Harvey: Terrific. Next: What is the best way to show your appreciation for the guidance you receive?

Greg: I think we kind of covered that. Again, it’s by showing the respect and the courtesy of applying such said wisdom, and I think that’s a big key that a lot of people are missing. A lot of folks – I’m sure you’ve experienced this, Harvey, all the time – people will pull you off stage and say, “Give me one little bit of counsel, one little bit of wisdom I can do.” And then, you never hear from them again.

And wouldn’t it be nice if few people – those emails that pop up a year later or a couple months later and say, “Hey, you gave me this great insight. Here’s what happened from it, and it completely changed me in a different direction.” Well, that’s where you feel like you’re actually making a difference, where you’re serving. And I think the greatest respect we can show our mentors is to go out and actually do it.

Harvey: Well, it’s like customers. Everybody wants constant, immediate, unfiltered feedback, right? From their mentors, from the mentees, to the customer, to the supplier – keep those pipelines open. Next question: If someone is looking for a mentor, where should they look?

Greg: Well, that goes down to, I believe, the old proverb: when the student’s ready, a teacher appears. And again, it depends which category that we’re lacking the most. So, for example, if I’m working on my tennis stroke, then I’m going to seek the very best tennis instructor I can find, right here in San Diego. If I’m working on finances, the same thing. The key is to have that reticular activator system so fired up that you’re constantly looking for people that can help you improve. So many people are always looking to make adjustments in other people’s lives, and tell them what to do.

Well, for myself, I like to be a great student and say, “How can I better myself? How can I become a better man, a better husband, a better father, a better business person, a better speaker, a better leader?” And you do that by always looking and having those windows and the reticular



activator system open, where you start seeking the people that are doing and getting the results that you truly want to achieve in your own life. And then, having the courage and the fortitude to reach out, ask them for guidance because the most successful people are those that are willing to ask for help.

Harvey: I couldn’t agree more, again. I believe everything that you are espousing. Well, Greg, I’ve got a three-part question, here, because I’ve done a little research, of course. I’ve tried to prepare to win, here, with this interview. And I know you’ve had a runaway best-seller with Sharon Lechter, who’s a very good friend – I don’t know, I think it was a couple years ago the book came out – but Think and Grow Rich: Three Feet From Gold. So, I’m asking about three stories in the book that really kind of tickled my fancy, and No. 1: Tell the group about the Dave Linigar story.

Greg: Oh, Dave Linigar’s a great story. Now, a lot of people will recognize his business but you might not recognize his name, but here’s how it goes. In 1970, he wanted to get into the real estate business, but it was the other big crash and there were challenges going on. And I asked him, I say, “Dave, what was it like getting started? Was it easy?” He goes, “Oh, gosh, no. It was horrible.” He goes, “For the first two years, every phone call that came in was from a bill collector. So, I was so embarrassed when the phone would ring. I’d run across the hall, pick up the phone so my secretary wasn’t put on the spot.”

He said, “The third year, it got worse. They threw me in jail. They called me a liar and a cheat and a fraud.” I go, “What you do?” He says, “Well, I took my attitude from trying to prove the whole world wrong to something more admirable, and proved myself right. I knew I wasn’t what they were making me out to be.” He says, “I had the courage to pick up the phone and call every bill collector and say, ‘Look, I’m going to be honest. I don’t got 50 grand I owe you, but I got $50 in my pocket. I’ll send it to you today with a promise that I’m not gonna quit. Don’t give up on me. I’m not gonna give up on my dream.”

He says, “I called every bill collector, every single month until the fourth year, someone finally believed in me. They bought the first business. And that’s what we know today as Re/Max Real Estate Corporation.” And he says, “You know, forget about me and my success, I’m just a regular guy. But how many people’s lives were changed because I would not quit? And more important, how do we know that the person whose got the cure to cancer isn’t about to give up and go get a ‘real job’ because Visa’s calling him, right now?”



Harvey: Wow. Well, second part of the question – I found that the founder of Pink Magazine, I thought that was very interesting in your book. Just tell me about it.

Greg: Well, yeah. I mean, these last few years – I don’t know about the people listening in here, but we’ve had a few challenges in this world, with finances and the economy and whatnot. And I remember, I was feeling less than: less than worthy, less than successful, and I didn’t feel myself. And I started to feel almost like a loser, to be honest with you. And I remember I sat down with this gal named Genevieve Bos, who started Pink Magazine, and I said, “Genevieve, I just don’t feel myself. I feel like

Harvey:

– I don’t know, I just don’t feel right.” And she looks at me and she says,“Never let your mistakes, your setbacks, or circumstances determine yourvalue as a person.”

I said, “What do you mean?” And she reached in her purse and she pulled out a crisp $100 bill. She goes, “Here, do you want this?” I go, “Yeah, I really could use it, right now.” And she crumpled it in my face. She goes, “Here, do you still want it?” I go, “Yeah.” She throws it on the ground and steps on it, like a cigar butt. She goes, “Do you still want that?” I said, “I really do.”

And she looks at me and says, “Then why is it in life, when we have challenges or setbacks – we get crumpled, we get thrown to the ground and stepped on – we think our value changes as a person? It’s just part of the process and the journey of what we’re going through.” So, when we’re faced with our greatest challenges, know this, the greatest quote from Napoleon Hill: “Our greatest success will always come just one step beyond our greatest setback.” Hang in there.

Again, I remember reading that. Well, you tell it maybe better than what’s in the book. Okay, last – third part of the question was – and I was just with him recently, Jimmy Walker, who is a member of our Roundtable – we have Fight Night, here in Phoenix. Some of our members have attended. Evander Holyfield was always there. It’s a Muhammad Ali fundraiser for Parkinson’s. Anyway, Evander’s always there at the dinner table; I’ve had dinner with him about four or five times. So, again, repeat for our group, if you could, the wonderful story about Evander Holyfield.

Greg: Of all the people that I’ve had the opportunity to sit down with, from the president of NASCAR to all these Olympian champions, from the guy who invented String Theory to Miss America, Evander Holyfield always was my favorite interview because I never saw it coming. He was very prolific, and I asked him, I say, “Evander,” I go, “What makes you so special?” And he says, “It’s easy.” He goes, “I just have a higher standard." And I said, "What do you mean?"



Harvey:

He says, “I have a higher standard.”

He goes, “If you have a car and you won’t tolerate it running bad or being dirty, chances are you have a higher standard and a nicer car than your next door neighbor.” He goes, “Where could you be outside the ring, if you’re a pet groomer, stock broker, or insurance sales executive and had a higher standard than your competition?” He goes, “For me, I showed up early, I left late. I invented exercises. I had the highest standard and I won more championships than anyone.” And I looked at him, I says, “But be honest.” I go, “Didn’t it hurt, being in a fight?”

He goes, “Oh, gosh, yeah.” He goes, “When you’re in a fight, it hurts real bad. But when you’re in the middle of it, you don’t focus on the pain. You don’t focus on the blows. As soon as you focus on the pain, where do you think you end up? On your back, knocked out.” He says, “But that’s what people do in real life, outside the ring. They focus on the gas prices and the war and the economy and they wonder why they never become a champion in their own field.”

And then he pulled me in really tight and says, “You know what the funny thing is? When you do win the championship,” he says, “everyone comes to their feet and they chant your name. They raise your hand in victory and a guy puts a big, shiny belt around your waist and at that moment, at that second, you don’t feel even one of the punches you took along the journey. But the guy in the losing locker room is going to feel every bruise for the rest of their life, wishing they had a higher standard.”

What one or two people influenced you – three people – two, three people, whatever – influenced you the most, and why?

Greg: Well, let’s start with Charlie “Tremendous” Jones. Oh, my goodness. Here’s a great legend who always taught us that we are the same today as we will be in five years, except for two things: the people we meet and the books we read. It’s who we’re hanging out with and what we’re putting in our head that determines our character, as a person.

And it’s so important to make sure that we’re putting positive inspiration on top of the daily news, so that we are filled with a little bit of inspiration to help us move forward. And I know you were a dear friend of his, and I gotta tell you, he was a father figure to me who truly impacted my life in a powerful way.

Harvey: Any other people influenced you?



Greg: Well, Napoleon Hill, as a virtual mentor. As you know, I’ve been working very close with The Napoleon Hill Foundation of Think and Grow Rich, to expand and modernize the principles that Napoleon Hill started so many years ago. And that’s just been an incredible journey. Hey, before we end here, can I just tell you one quick story about Charlie “Tremendous” Jones, that I guarantee you no one’s ever heard?

Harvey: We’ve got a lot of time. The stage is all yours.

Greg: Well, Charlie “Tremendous” Jones – I remember I flew out to where he

Harvey:

lived out in Pittsburgh and we were driving around and I says, again, “Will you teach me?” And he said, “Yeah.” So, I flew out there and spent a whole two or three days with the guy. And as we’re driving around, I told him, I say, “You know, I’m kind of frustrated. Right now, I’m a new speaker and I went and did my first engagement and there was only, like, 30 or 40 people.” He pulled the car over and he looks at me dead in the eye and says, “You pompous, arrogant son-of-a-gun.” I go, “What?” He goes, “Let me tell you about the first time I ever did a speaking engagement. There was going to be a thousand folks. I was so excited.” He goes, “I drove an hour and a half one direction to give this presentation. When I showed up, there was only two people. The guy who put it on and his brother.” I go, “What you do?” He says, “I gave a presentation like there was a thousand people because you never know who you’re gonna impact.” He says, “But I’m a human being. I was driving home and ego was setting in.” He goes, “I looked up to the Lord and says, ‘God, why me?’” He said the Lord spoke to him and said, “Charlie, that’s two more people than you deserved.”

And right then and there, he decided that he’d give the same presentation whether there was one or one thousand. And those words of wisdom has helped guide my career so much because I give the same enthusiasm now, speaking to a small little Mary Kay group or to a group at a stadium. It kind of doesn’t make a difference because again, we don’t know who we’ll impact. And here’s the moral of that story: the two people he spoke to were the Kinder brothers that end up opening up the doors and got him over 100 full-paid speaking gigs in his entire career. Pretty cool story, huh?

Oh, I just love it. That’s a fabulous story, and he really contributed that way when they made Charlie “Tremendous” Jones. Well, I sincerely appreciate, Greg, your participation in the Mackay Roundtable teleseminar today. Really, the wisdom you’ve bestowed upon us and our group will be, I think, shared by many people for many, many years to come.

Greg: Hey, Harvey, thanks for having me. I truly appreciate it.



Harvey: And thanks again, we’ll be in touch. Bye-bye.

I’ve had multiple mentors throughout my career. Fortunately, I’ve been able to select mentors at various times, as I have advanced. The following list of seven criteria has been useful in helping me do so.

1. What major leadership or business trades are my foremost business shortcomingsright now?

2. What networking voids do I have and who could sponsor me to overcome them?3. Who has a basic chemistry compatible with mine? But who is playing the game

I’d like to play one or two levels higher? 4. Who has the skillset and success level I’d like to enjoy five years from now?5. Who is very much like me, but seems to have an easy time doing what I find hard

to do? 6. Who has a powerful need to teach what I need to learn?7. What I can offer a potential mentor in exchange for their dedication, time, and

trust?

When my business career took off, probably the most influential mentor I ever had was Curt Carlson in the Twin Cities. He was founder of the Carlson companies. His daughter, Marilyn Nelson, was an earlier guest in the Mackay Roundtable series. Curt pioneered Gold Bond stamps in 1938. He also built the Radisson Hotel chain. As with the Minneapolis Laker player, Jim Pollard, Curt had little quirks that were the sort of thing I’d do, only better.

I’ve told you before how I would stick little reminders in my hat or my wallet, zeroing in on key targets. Quote: “Sell General Mills,” for example. Curt would do the same kind of thing. He wanted to earn $100 a week, so he put a note like that in his wallet. Over time, $100 became $200. Exponentially, his goal soared over time and he perpetually beat his own deadline. When he died, his company was inching towards $6 billion.

I inhaled Curt’s energy and enthusiasm. He would say, “I love going to work every day at the age of 46 as much as I did at the age of 23.” Curt taught me how to build and sustain motivation. He would contend buying a person’s time for eight hours a day was one thing, capturing someone’s heart and mind for the longer haul was something else, all together. Curt never confused the means with the end, and the business end for him was always motivation, pure and simple.

He once wrote, “We’ve always been in the motivational business. Thus, if trading stamps were no longer the best means by which to motivate people, we would energetically and enthusiastically find other, even better



ways to do the job.” Curt taught me the wisdom of, “Inside man, outside man.” Partnerships. Curt started his business working out of his apartment. He hired a guy named Joe Hunt to do the bookkeeping. It was a perfect, smooth-sailing partnership. Curt was the flamboyant, poised, outside face. Joe attended to the details. Above all, Curt had this gift of being able to exhilarate people.

I remember flying to New York one time on his private plane. The Twin Cities was hit by the worst blizzard in half a century. Our prospects of getting out of town were slim to none. Suddenly, a departure window opened for small aircraft. I wasn’t too keen on thumbing my nose at the weather gods. Curt couldn’t have cared less. We zoomed down the runway. Curt turned to me with the biggest twinkle in his eye, “Look, Harvey,” he explained, “no tracks in the snow.” Seventy years old, rich beyond dreams, and this guy was a human Christmas tree. What lit him up? Being first, no matter what the risk.

This doesn’t mean all mentor relationships are love fests. I remember reading about Robert Moses. He was an urban planner in the first half of the 20th century. He had enormous impact on transforming the landscape of New York City. Moses got his first big break working as a staffer for Governor Al Smith. Moses was assigned as a chief of staff to a woman named Belle Moskowitz. According to a Moses biographer, Mrs. Moskowitz got things done. She began to teach Moses how things got done: don’t antagonize voters. If the governor wanted the support of the legislature, then the legislature would have its say in distributing the choices patronage posts.

Moses was very theoretical, always wanted to do exactly what was right, trying to make things perfect, unwilling to compromise. Moskowitz concentrated on what was possible without stirring up trouble in other areas. Moskowitz was the boss, no bones about it. Moses fumed, saying things like, “I could have kicked that woman in the shins.” But in spite of the cursing, there was, over time, a difference in Bob Moses. He was not only obeying Mrs. Moskowitz, but also obviously studying the lessons that she was teaching and studying them, hard. His conversation began to include the phrases of practical politics. He learned the way the government gains, against the political losses.

Obviously, many mentors are within companies. That’s part of the natural order of business and succession. There are also very good arguments for having a mentor, too, outside of your company. The reason can be compelling. This puts the relationship outside of internal company politics. An outside mentor can be much more unbiased in assessing your career and strategic opportunities. Outside mentors can help network you



to solutions with forces perceived as hostile. That, of course, includes competitors.

Sometimes, a mentor will inspire an entire generation in an industry. Some mentors shift the tectonic plates to completely overhaul an industry. In his autobiography, Starbucks’ guiding force Howard Schultz speaks admirably of Alfred Peet. Peet was the Dutchman who introduced America to dark roasted coffees. He’s described as gray-haired, stubborn, independent, and candid. A man without patience for hype or pretense. Also, here was an expert with a passion. He would spend hours with anyone with a genuine interest in learning about the world’s great coffees and teas.

When Peet moved to the United States in 1955, he was shocked. Most of the coffee Americans drank was Robusta – that’s the inferior type that the coffee traders of London and Amsterdam treated as a cheap commodity. Very little of the fine Arabica coffees ever got to North America. Gradually, one by one, Alfred Peet began educating a few discerning Americans about the fine distinctions in coffee. He created his own blends, the mark of a true connoisseur. He treated coffee as if it were a fine wine. Peet combined unequal technical knowledge with a grasp of imagery. He tapped into the human nature.

Is there an Alfred Peet in your industry who is making or redefining taste? Beat a path to this person’s doorstep. Absorb how they think, not just what they say. Get inside the sense of imagination that allowed them to take a bold, new view of the world. The Japanese have a memorable proverb: Better than a thousand days of diligent study is one day with a great teacher.

One key point to note about mentoring and selling: do your best to learn who the mentors are of every important customer you have. Try to learn who the mentors are for prospective customers. Why? So you can map out a strategy to reach the mentor. This may be a long shot, but it can be a powerful one.

Let’s say you need to influence the customer or prospect. Who is better, more authoritatively positioned to whisper in this person’s ear than a mentor? I have used the mentor gambit countless times on community projects. An individual might be hopelessly opposed to a civic initiative, but this person might have a mentor they trust implicitly. Reason with the mentor and ask them for help in softening the protégé’s stance. Present convincing arguments that this is for the good of the community. Keep yourself absolutely invisible. You have just enlisted and mobilized an unimpeachable voice of authority.



Study the psychology of mentoring relationships. Look for the subtle traits that mentors imprint on their protégés. Two striking examples come to mind: John Wooden and Bill Gates. Wooden, of course, was the legendary UCLA Bruin basketball coach. Wooden played his own college basketball at Purdue under Coach Ward “Piggy” Lambert. Piggy earned his nickname as a player; he always tried to hog the ball. That was not a trait Wooden assimilated. A number of others, he did. Wooden credits having learned the pressing defense with zone principles and the importance of movement and action under Lambert.

These were matters of assimilated philosophy. Lambert believed in speed and that the team which made the most mistakes would probably win. That’s right, let me repeat that: the team that made the most mistakes would probably win. What he was trying to get across was that the doer makes mistakes, but the doer usually wins because he gets more shots and controls the game more. Lambert was also a very precise man. He was meticulous, thorough, and well-organized. Again, these are hallmarks one associates with Wooden’s coaching style.

An even more dramatic example of mentor assimilation is Bill Gates. In April, 2010, Dr. Ed Roberts died. Among techies, Roberts is celebrated as the Father of the PC. He created the Altair 8800 computer in 1975. Roberts gave Gates the opportunity to write software for the computer. Roberts took a chance on Gates and his colleague, Paul Allen, with their untested software. Then, something really remarkable happened. The mentor, Roberts, moved to Georgia and bought a farm. In 1982, he attended medical school and in ’86, he graduated first in his class. In 1988, he established a small practice in Cochran, Georgia. Roberts was already in his mid-30s when he did this.

According to Gates and Allen, Roberts decided to spend the second half of his life going to medical school and working as a country doctor, making house calls. Take a look at Gates’ own life as a philanthropist in recent years. This has been his second and much celebrated career. In 2010, the New York Times judged the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation made $450 million in five-year grants, more than double what he originally planned to give. The targets: malaria, AIDS, polio, especially in less developed countries. It’s the country doctor model using big league finances as scalpel. The country? The four corners of the Earth. Like mentor, like protégé.

Another country doctor by choice in the last century summed it up best. He was a distinguished physician, humanitarian, theologian and organist. Albert Schweitzer created the famed clinic for the impoverished in Lambaréné in French Equatorial Africa. Dr. Schweitzer maintained, “Example is not the main influence in others. It is the only thing.”



Peter Drucker is a reliable authority for nearly everything about management, mentoring included. Here are some Drucker mentoring principles drawn from several of his books. To each, I’ve added a little clarification and amplification of my own. Drucker writes, “The new organizations need to go beyond senior-junior polarities to a blend with sponsor and mentor relations.” Drucker’s message is quite clear. The organization of the future is moving well beyond hierarchy and commitment to advocacy. That’s in step with mentorship as a positive sponsoring style of leadership.

In a dialogue between Drucker and executives, Drucker highlights one discussion of mentors. The discussion points out two things. Mentors can be very useful in identifying and curbing natural tendencies, for example, if an executive is short on patience in making decisions. Second, mentors can be crucial cheerleaders in helping executives dedicate themselves to what they do well. A third set of observations from Drucker emphasizes the power of enthusiasm and continuous learning.

“Mentors unleash it and fuel it,” Drucker writes. “The good teachers of artists do it. The good coaches of athletes do it. So do the good mentors in the business organizations. They lead their students to achievement so great that it surprises the achiever and creates excitement and motivation, especially the motivation for rigorous discipline, persistent work and practice which continued learning requires.” By the way, Drucker said the best mentoring advice he ever got came from his editor-in-chief, who told him, “Get good, or get out.”

Often, probably far too often, we think of mentors in a far too idealized way. There are also wild, wooly and utterly worldly mentors, too. I call them “Old Grizzlies.” A lot of people have gone further than they thought they could because someone else thought they could. Yours truly, included. When I bought Mackay Envelope, I was 26 years old. My lawyer was 65. My accountant was 60. My banker would admit to being 70 – in point of fact, he was chasing 80.

They didn’t know a thing about the envelope business; they didn’t need to. They’d seen enough serious business problems in their lifetimes. They knew all the scenarios a business could face. They knew all the moves that worked and those that didn’t. Everything that happened to me in the first five years of running the business was new to me. Nothing was new to them. Even when I didn’t take their advice, they were calming and reassuring. I didn’t have to wrestle with the whole load, and being around wisdom gets you to listen more than you talk. That doesn’t hurt, either.



This early experience motivated me to create an institution that remains alive and well for me today. I call it “The Kitchen Cabinet.” The original Kitchen Cabinet was organized by President Jackson. He was unhappy with the official cabinet thrust upon him by political coalitions, so Jackson organized his own team of advisors from longtime allies. They were trustworthy and took Jackson’s personal agenda to heart.

Let’s say you’re a senior executive today. Who might be good candidates to be members of your Kitchen Cabinet team? Here’s what my experience has taught me. Note that some of the Kitchen Cabinet might be drawn from inside your organization. It’s likely, however, that the majority will be inside outsiders. Some, you may need to retain with professional, hard dollar remuneration. Others can be rewarded through contacts and introducing them to new business. Still others may be retired and simply motivated to keep their skills active.

Here are the kinds of Kitchen Cabinet members important to my team: a fact checker, who scrutinizes and research information for accuracy; a legal eagle that can quickly spot potential landmines; one counselor is a speech coach – she, for example, can tell me if a story or piece of humor is likely to play well. Another communicator assesses official communication coming from my office – does it meet uniform quality and consistency standards? Then, there’s a financial pro who can help evaluate if a new venture is worthwhile or if an old one has outlived its usefulness.

My Kitchen Cabinet is an addition to the long list of coaches and trainers I have referred to in earlier sessions. As I've said on numerous occasions, even the Lone Ranger had Tonto. Today’s well-rounded executive is likely to need plenty of Tontos. The alternative? If you think knowledge is expensive, try ignorance.

By the way, some of your Kitchen Cabinet may be skilled in multiple areas. One thing I do not recommend: I would not convene Kitchen Cabinet sessions with the various members present at one time. There can be exceptions, but what you generally get is a lot of internal competition. Individuals jockey for position to be your #1 advisor. It’s better to have their input coming to you in clearly separate streams.

Two heads are better than one, and three heads are better than two. Get your Kitchen Cabinet’s opinion on a situation. Don’t always trust your gut. You want to see all sides. Are these people truly candid and trustworthy? If so, they will do their damnedest to protect you from your own weakness. More often, organizations are run by whole leadership teams; it might be CEOs, COO partnerships, or co-CEOs. Since more



organizations are being run with partnership models, consider both members of a partnership model as a potential mentor.

I came to this conclusion after reading Rudy Giuliani’s book, Leadership. In it, he talked about the heyday of the New York Yankees in the late 1990s. Giuliani commented on the relationship of owner George Steinbrenner and manager Joe Torre. The combination of George Steinbrenner and Joe Torre produced far greater success than either enjoyed with others. It’s a classic dynamic. I’m not sure that even they realize how much each does to make the other better. George is the taskmaster that’s matched with Joe’s ability to instill calm. Joe looks for consensus for the positive in his players.

What was leading the Yankees was a combination of temperaments. Try to get inside the head of that dynamic. How does it work, day in and day out? It’s like getting into the give-and-take of a successful marriage. So, when you think mentoring, think about the future. What will run future organizations are not strong-willed individuals. It will be smoothly collaborative partnerships.

We’ve talked about picking mentors for selected traits. I can’t stress two other points strongly enough. The first is that mentoring needs to evolve over time. You have to be willing to add and sometimes shed mentors from your roster. Also, steel yourself to the reality that mentoring relationships sometimes end abruptly. Regarding the latter case, one of the most graphic cases in recent memory was Jamie Dimon and Sanford Weill. Sandy Weill is the retired CEO of Citigroup. Jamie Dimon is CEO of J.P. Morgan Chase and the most influential banker around. For years, Dimon was Weill’s protégé.

Then in 1998, after one of their great financial coups together, Weill fired Dimon. According to author Monica Langley, never in a million years did Dimon expect this. His departure was part of an anticipated reorganization. Dimon expected heads to roll, but definitely not his. A third party did the actual firing, but inevitably, Weill’s and Dimon’s paths did cross.

Here’s Langley’s account of the exchange, quote: “’You’ve been very gracious and very nice,’ the one onetime mentor Weill said. ‘I still respect you and love you.’ Dimon tensed at the sudden show of affection. ‘Look Sandy, I don’t know what to say.’ ‘I’m sorry it had to come to this,’ Sandy said, moving to embrace Dimon. Dimon recoiled. ‘No hugs, please,’ he said. Explaining the ouster to his daughters, Dimon was the very apex of clear and cool. ‘Sometimes things go bad and you don’t see eye to eye. Some of your friends’ parents have gotten divorced; it doesn’t make either side bad.’”



The experience didn’t stop Dimon for a heartbeat. When a mentoring relationship collapses, don’t let it cripple you. Take what you’ve learned and move on.

A hot development trend taking hold is E-mentoring. Should this be any surprise? How about executive development? You can theoretically do a lot more in virtual space than in your own bricks and mortar. Fortune ran an article on E-mentoring last August on its website.

One of the firms mentioned was Sodexo, a biggie in food services and facilities management. Sodexo has made a commitment to the E-mentoring innovation. Sodexo has a US workforce of 115,000 employees and about 15,000 managers who could benefit from a mentorship program. Now, Sodexo has an informal program open to all managers that has about 1,700 mentees and 1,300 mentors. It continues to have about 125 formal mentoring partnerships.

Financial manager Northern Trust also relies on technology to open up the mentoring process to its more than 13,000 employees across the globe. There are IT firms like Triple Creek that specialize in network software that specifically supports E-mentoring. One thing is certain: distance is less and less of a factor in building human relationships, and it’s less of an obstacle in getting things done in every respect.

Another caveat that is crucial to E-mentoring, or even traditional mentoring: if you want to build traction, always have a mentoring date on the calendar. Mentoring thrives on disciplined regularity. And mentors praise what they learn about operations in the field. When you E-mentor, the base of data and contact can become that much broader.

Now, let’s get to our second resource, today. Eric Worre is a leader in the direct selling industry. During the last quarter century, he has been a top producer, building sales organizations totalling over 500,000 distributors in more than 60 countries with personal earnings over $15 million; president of a $200 million direct selling company; co-founder and president of his own company, TPN, The People’s Network; a seven-figure-a-year marketing consultant to the direct selling industry; an accomplished as in-demand trainer, having trained more than 250,000 people around the world on the secrets to success in his field.

In the past few years, Eric has built the largest online training site for his industry, with more than 12,000 video views a day and an online community of over 50,000 active members. Roundtable members, I give you Eric Worre.



Eric, top of the morning. I’ve been looking forward to this, and thanks for coming on.

Eric Worre: Harvey, it’s my pleasure.

Harvey: Okay, let’s just jump right in. First question: I understand you believe there are three stages to mentoring. What are those stages?

Eric: Well, in my business, I think in any professional’s business, mentoring

Harvey:

ends up being a big part of their life. It’s a big part of their result. So I think stage one, for me, has been being mentored. I think everyone needs to have a mentor. Some of the most important mentors are early mentors, but being mentored on different things. So the biggest concept on being mentored is earning it – finding a way to earn your way into a mentoring relationship with someone of value. So I think that’s stage one, is being mentored and earning it.

Stage two is mentoring. And there’s two parts of mentoring – at least two categories. One is the benevolent side of mentoring, reaching out to people who need it, who are struggling, who are trying to get a leg up. The benevolent side – and I know you’ve done that a lot, Harvey. And then, the second side of mentoring is the business side. And I’ve done a lot of that. I’ve built big sales organizations around the world, so business mentoring has been a really important thing.

So, being mentored number one, mentoring, number two, whether it’s benevolent or business, and three – and this is the critical stage for me, at least – is teaching other people how to mentor. You can mentor – that’ll get a certain result in your life, it’ll get you a certain amount of satisfaction, but if you teach other people how to mentor, not only can your – on a business side – your organization have huge reach and influence, but on the benevolent side, your work can have legs that travel around the world with or without you. I mean, can literally extend hundreds of years beyond your lifetime. The whole legacy side of things.

So, the three stages are being mentored, mentoring, and then teaching other people how to mentor.

Yes, that kind of reminds me about when you’re in business for yourself, if you happen to have coworkers or employees, you could be earning money as an entrepreneur when you’re not there. If you’re just sole proprietor by yourself, out there with your own brand, of course, you’re only making money when you’re out there in the market place yourself. I like that it has legs, and the legacy that you leave.



Let me just go back. You said – and I think I know what you mean – just can you expand a couple of sentences on, “You have to earn it – that mentoring relationship?” Just explain to me, what do you mean by, “You have to earn it?”

Eric: When I first started out in business, I was a prime example of the fact that

Harvey:

your past doesn’t equal your future. I know your pedigree, Harvey, and you came up in the right way. I didn’t. I had many different jobs before the time I was 22 years old. I was a C- student in high school, no college education to speak of. So, when I wanted – I became ambitious and I kind of woke up at about age 23, it was hard for me to get around super successful people because they knew my history. They knew my resume. So I had to hustle. I had to show them that it wasn’t just some wild little idea, that I was serious.

I had to buy some successful people lunch, when I couldn’t afford it. I had to work on myself and read the books and listen to the audio programs, etc., so that my language would change, so I could start to be – have a conversation with some of these people. I had to try and provide value, any way I could, to successful people to earn my way in to the conversation. So there’s a lot of people that want to be mentored and they sit back and say, “Okay, make something of me.” And that’s not how it works. You’ve gotta invest.

And Harvey, I know you know, when somebody that you’re mentoring invests in the relationship, it makes you want to give them more and more. When they don’t, or they’re not a good student or they don’t listen, then it becomes hard to mentor somebody that’s just sitting there.

Now, on the benevolent side, it’s a completely different equation. Sometimes, on the benevolent side, it’s just being a friend to someone who needs a friend. But earning it, for if you really wanna move forward, that’s important. And I know finding mentors in many different areas of life – you could pay for it, sometimes, if you’re gonna get a good coach, like I know you had many coaches, but when you’re not paying for it, you need to earn it.

Um-hmm. Really, that’s just a fabulous answer. Let’s go on to the next question. You’ve had the opportunity to work with and observe some of the greats. What would you say are the attributes of a great mentor?

Eric: All right. I’d start off with their philosophy. If they really care about you, care about your growth – is it about you, or is it all about them? There’s some people that they just like the sound of their own voice. That’s not really a good mentor. So, philosophy’s one. Just – do they have the right intentions in the process?



Number 2 would be competence. They gotta know what they’re doing. Now, on the benevolent side, again, you don’t have to have a lot of competence to be a friend, and to guide them through life with little direction here and there. But when it comes to serious mentorship, the person that you’re getting mentored by has to be disciplined. They’ve gotta have good answers, at least be able to guide you in a direction. Maybe they have done what you want, they’ve already accomplished it in their life.

Third side, attributes of great mentors is they developed a certain bookend and a certain image that inspires trust. So, part of that’s competence, part of that’s philosophy, but it ends up – it becomes a security blanket for the person that becomes mentored. So, I know that when I’m mentoring people in my business, they need to know that the philosophy is not about me, it’s about them. It’s about what we can do together. They need to know that I’ve done what they want to do, and I can show them how to get there, too, if they’ll be a good student. And they also have to see my brand, my image, etc., because that becomes a security blanket when they become insecure.

Fourth attribute would be vision, the ability to say to someone – if I was mentoring you, Harvey, which is kind of a laughable concept, but if I was, the vision is important. To be able to say, “Harvey, here’s where you can go. Let me paint the picture for what your life could look like. Let me tell you what the future may hold for you. And if you’ll do this and this and this and this, here’s the promise.”

Because once the vision gets painted strongly in a person who is being mentored's mind, once that vision gets painted strongly, they’ll go through the pain of change and discipline and work and growth in order to be able to get there. So, the vision – being able to paint the vision is a hugely important attribute of a great mentor. Their ability to do that. The great mentors that I know and I have known in my life have been able to paint a picture with words like no one I’ve ever been able to be around. It’s amazing what they can do.

The fifth attribute is a game plan. Not only painting the vision – the vision says, “Here’s what can happen if you go down this right path.” The game plan is, “Here’s how you can accomplish the vision.” The vision’s great, but without the game plan, a lot of people won’t get started.

Another attribute is great communication skills and great story-telling. What great mentors do is they tell stories, they communicate very, very well. They do that in everything that they do and they say. The best mentors I know are the best story-tellers. It’s interesting to me how good they are at telling stories.



And the last, I would say, is they provide what the person needs, not what they want. A lot of times people being mentored – they want one thing but that’s not what they need. And the mentor has the ability, like a doctor, to take a look at the symptoms and prescribe – offer a prescription for those symptoms. They have the ability to see inside of a person.

When I’m coaching or mentoring a person, it takes me about three or six months for me to get beyond [inaudible 1:15:36] money and see what they really need, and what’s really holding them back. And then, I go, “Oh, okay.” Then, I can prescribe and say, “Okay.” Let them know that, “Here’s the vision, here’s the game plan, here’s what I would suggest that you do. You’ve got this issue or that issue, and we can move forward.” So, those are some of the attributes of great mentors. I’ve seen some greats, I’ve worked with some greats, and there’s nothing like a great mentor.

Harvey: What irony, within the last 48 hours – I’m calling from Phoenix, Arizona, and I can’t believe it. We’re just coming off of our two-day meeting, the Mackay Roundtable, where we had one of the best story-tellers of all time, Lou Holtz, and verbatim in one of his speeches he said, “Hey, it’s not about me, it’s about them.” And those are words that came right out of your mouth, so that’s just terrific. And of course, a story-teller he is.

Our next question – that’s just a terrific answer, Eric – next question: You’ve built sales organizations totaling over half a million independent distributers. How did mentoring help you accomplish that?

Eric: Well, again, it comes back to the three steps. The three steps being, number 1, being mentored so I could become competent, so I had the right philosophy, so I could build a brand, so I could learn how to paint a vision and create a game plan and communicate and tell stories. That was number 1. The becoming mentored, and finding the people who had the skills that I wanted to have, that developed the organizations that I wanted to develop.

Number 2 was mentoring the willing, working with the willing. A lot of people want to mentor people that don’t really want to be mentored. And there’s nothing more frustrating than trying to drag somebody over the finish line. I learned a long time ago, and it saved me tremendous amounts of grief, was to work with the willing – the people who want to be mentored, who want to grow, that want to achieve great things. And when you’re working with the willing, it’s like you’re going downhill versus going uphill. That was hugely important to let people self-select and decide if they want to be mentored.



And the third step was teaching the other people how to mentor. That’s the only – how can you build organizations totaling over half a million independent sales reps and distributers around the world? You can’t do it on your own. There’s no way. But if you can teach other people how to mentor, then you get leverage. And that’s true in a small business, that’s true in a medium size business, that’s true in just about any business. If you can create – like I said before, give it legs, create leverage, and then you have the opportunity to kind of enjoy the legacy and the benefits from that.

But the third step – teaching other people to mentor – is a different skillset than mentoring. It’s a different mindset because you’re teaching people to teach. And when you get that piece, everything opens up and it gets a lot easier. You can get a lot of growth without a lot of effort.

Harvey: I just love that alliteration, working with the willing. That’s a beautiful statement. Last question, Eric: Who are the one or two people who have influenced you the most, and why?

Eric: Yeah, you asked me this just right before we started this call, so I thought about it for a few minutes and I’m going to give you a couple of examples. And I have dozens of mentors that have had a huge impact on my life, but two jumped out at me. One was a childhood friend – actually, a friend of my father’s, they worked in the real estate business together – his name was John Joyce. And John was a guy who saw things in me before I saw things in others – I saw things in myself. He’s a guy who said, “You know what? This kid’s gonna go somewhere.” And he was willing to tell everybody that, all the time.

He instilled a certain belief in myself to be able to do things, to not disappoint him. And I’ll be forever grateful for John for doing that for me, and he’s been a dear friend throughout my whole life. He was able to let me know when I was out of line, and he was able to move me in a direction that was a better direction. But more than anything else, it was that benevolent part of mentoring from John that – he just believed in me. And that belief and that friendship started me on a path that was a positive path. That’s the first one.

And the second one is a person that I know you know well, Harvey, is Jim Rohn. And I talked to you a minute ago about earning being mentored, earning it. And Jim Rohn – I had no business having any association with Jim Rohn. He was a hero of mine in my twenties, but he was a virtual mentor for me before he was a real mentor for me.

And what I mean by that is I didn’t deserve his time, but I could get his audio programs and listen to that in my automobile hundreds of times and



I got the same benefit as if he was really in my automobile, whispering in my ear and burning new grooves in my brain, and getting [inaudible] [1:21:44] about my life, and take different acts and develop different philosophies.

So, he was a virtual mentor first, and then, five or six years later, we became friends and we became – I had a physical and personal mentorship relationship. And he was tough on me, at times. There were times when I was a little embarrassed. There was times when he said things that stung a little bit, but I’ll tell you what – his philosophy was so strong and his heart was so big, that I would listen. And so, again, I earned it, No. 1, by getting the audio programs and then developing myself to a point where we could have a conversation and there was mutual respect.

So, those are a couple of early mentors. One was a huge believer in me and the other one really helped to shape my philosophy in a much better way.

Harvey: I am so happy that you mentioned Jim Rohn’s name because this gives me a perfect opportunity to reinforce to the Roundtable how exactly important it is to be listening to these great minds, and catch all that wisdom. And especially in your car, I’ve said from the podium for many, many years, if you live – average life expectancy, American male, about 74, 75 years of age, American female 79 years of age – and you travel 10,000 miles a year in your car, guess what: if you live that long, you’ll spend three years in your automobile. Three years.

Why not turn your automobile into a university? And that’s of course what you’ve done, Eric. And I tell you, I’ve got hundreds and hundreds of hours in my automobile, turning it, again, into a university, and one of my stars, again, and favorites, and heroes, was Jim Rohn. And for anyone listening, that’s R-O-H-N, again. Look him up, Google him, you’ll never, never regret buying any of his, and it started with audio tapes long, long, long time ago.

Eric, just love it. Thanks again, your name has always been synonymous with mentoring, and see you around the campus.

Eric: I appreciate it, Harvey. If I could be of service to you, or anyone in your Roundtable, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Harvey: Well, thank you very much, again. Bye-bye.

Eric: Bye-bye.



Harvey: The last mentoring topic I’d like to tackle is, “Passing the Torch.” I would hear talented executives complain, “Why do I always get stuck babysitting the new people?” Babysitting can be the highest form of compliment. Someone in charge thinks you’re a good mentor, and has recognized your talent at bringing along the recent hires. The executive suite doesn’t usually let under-achievers tend to the care and feeding of their rising starts. Even with industries, and across competitive lines, leaders have an urge to pass the baton.

Freddie Laker was a British air travel entrepreneur. He founded Laker Airways, one of the first no-frills airlines in the mid-1960s. The business went bankrupt in 1982, but Laker revolutionized air travel and created an entirely new sector. Passengers had to bring their own meals and buy tickets on the day of the flight. Perhaps Laker’s best known quote was something he said to another entrepreneur, Virgin Group founder, Richard Branson. Laker said, “You’ll never have the advertising power to outsell British Airways. You’re gonna have to get out there and use yourself, make a fool of yourself. Otherwise, you won’t survive.”

Understood properly, Laker was not telling Branson to be an idiot. He was advising him to take risks and do original things. Don’t be afraid of making a fool out of yourself. Look at Branson’s daredevil, sometimes spine-tingling track record, and that’s just what he’s done. He founded Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Express Airlines, he founded and then sold a broadband and telecommunications company for a billion pounds, he has launched incredible sailing and hot air balloon campaigns to break world records.

Branson backed Nelson Mandela early on, and funded humanitarian hunger strikes. Branson’s Virgin Galactic is poised to be a pioneer in space tourism. And Branson wrote a bold book about risk-taking entitled, Screw It, Let’s do it. Richard Branson, the Freddie Laker mentee, has now become a mentor himself. He’s considered a transformational leader and ends up on lists of the world’s most influential people. That’s all by way of becoming a multibillionaire and the fourth richest citizen of the United Kingdom.

Great mentors can whisper the right words that will move others to take unimaginable risks. Mentoring is not just a two-way street. For skillful executives, it should be an eight-lane interstate, travelling in both directions.

Now, so far, we’ve talked just about being a mentee or protégé. I can assure you that the rewards of being a mentor are every bit as great. That is, you get as much as what you give. I have mentored hundreds of



people, and I’ve been doing this for decades. Many of them have been in my own company, but countless others have not been.

These are individuals who were either recommended to me, or who took the initiative to cold call their way to my front door: freshly minted MBAs, senior executives in midlife, gifted people in dead-end desk jobs who needed a push to think bold, sports figures aiming for athletic directorships or head-coaching jobs. Build diversity into the group of people you decide to mentor. It’s the same principle as networking. Think on a wide-ranging scale. You don’t want a single cookie cutter character to the people you develop and sponsor.

What do I look for when I choose to spend time with someone and help them along? Is this person sincere and thoughtful? Is there a flair or sense of imagination for the original? Do these individuals have a briefly-stated but clear description of their situation or plan? How much research have they done? Specifically, how carefully and completely have they read what I have already written on a topic before they contact me?

Are they respectful of my time? Are they focused on a solution, or just griping about their situation? Do they report back on action steps? Do they persevere through obstacles? Are they equally prepared to give back and help others? Always gauge and re-gauge how far you would be willing to sponsor and endorse this person. The most arresting finding about mentees and protégés is the impact they have on career success. Not theirs, but yours.

In August, 2009, John Chambers, the CEO of IT giant Cisco, was interviewed by the New York Times. He was asked to share the questions he asked the job candidates. His most interesting one: Who are the best people you recruited and developed, and where are they now? Everyone gives lip service to people being the biggest resource in the business. Who doesn’t sing the praises of smart hiring and management development? Everyone dreams of being a great mentor, guiding spirit. Chambers is saying, “Prove it.”

This challenge works for any level of management at any company. Does John Chambers’ question applied to young people who are entering the job market? Well, why shouldn’t it? If you ran the student newspaper or the debating society, how did you help develop the next editor or the chief debater who succeeded you? My advice: start hunting for mentors as a young person but also, start being a mentor while you are young, as well.

An aside to you parents, watch carefully the mentors your kids choose. They will be a driving force in how they spend their time and energy. Let’s say you have a talented friend who has good, intellectual chemistry



with one of your children. Helping to build that contact can deliver significant personal development benefits.

If you have had stellar results in finding and growing people in your career, make it a major point. Emphasize it in management presentations inside your company. Showcase it to financial analysts. Allude to your success at people development when you campaign for civic and community leadership. If you don’t have a meaningful answer to the question of whom you developed, then make your own recruitment and development skills a number 1 priority for your own executive development. The people who build companies are the people who build people.

I’ve been asked, “What do I get out of mentoring?” Well, the answer is plenty. Some of the gains are more self-serving than you might immediately think. Of course, there’s the enormous satisfaction of helping others, but there’s also the test of sizing people up quickly. How sharp is your eye for talent? How could this person help build my network in an important way? Can I crosslink this individual to others in my network, so that the connections benefit everyone involved? Could this individual give me valuable, personalized intelligence about a company or sector of the market?

What can this individual teach me about skills or work challenges that are totally unknown to me? Provided I am a successful mentor, how can this person bring my messages and ideas to new audiences? When you mentor, that’s a good way to think of yourself and what you are doing. How can I distill all my lived experience and advise this person? What can I say that will make a life-changing impression? At what moment, in what place, in what way can I say it that will be unforgettable?

As successful business leaders, we owe it to the next generation to help them achieve their full potential. It’s a privilege, don’t take it lightly. A quickie P.S. As you all know, this is our last teleseminar for Year One. Just a reminder, don’t overlook the mentoring possibilities that can go on within the group.

And that, gang, is a wrap. [End of Audio]

Duration: 95 minutes


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