thirdrepublicandebateundercard 10-28-15

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Transcript: Read the Full Text of the Undercard CNBC

Debate in Boulder

time.com /4091725/republican-debate-cnbc-undercard-transcript-full-text/

Ryan Teague Beckwith

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Four minor Republican presidential candidates met in Boulder, Colorado, for the third undercard debate

Wednesday.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick

Santorum and former New York Gov. George Pataki were all on stage at the 6 p.m. debate, hosted by

cable business news network CNBC.

Here is a running transcript of their remarks, courtesy of CNBCs Your Money, Your Vote: The RepublicanPresidential Debate.

BECKY QUICK: Good evening, everyone. Im Becky Quick. Along with my CNBC colleagues, Carl

Quintanilla and John Harwood, some of CNBCs experts in the markets and finance will be with us here

tonight as well.

Lets get right to the debate rules. Candidates will get 30 seconds to answer an opening question and then

60 seconds to answer a formal question. They will also get 30 seconds for rebuttals and follow-ups. All of

this comes at the discretion of the moderators. We want you to weigh in tonight either from home or

wherever you are.

By the way, if you check it out on the bottom of the screen, you can see your tweets right there using the

#CNBCGOPdebate. You can also go to CNBC.com/vote throughout the night to tell us where you stand.

First up, lets get right to the candidates for tonights Republican Presidential debate. I want to run you

through the line on the stage from left to right. First up, Governor Bobby Jindal.

[APPLAUSE]

Senator Rick Santorum.

[APPLAUSE]

Governor George Pataki.

[APPLAUSE]

And Senator Lindsey Graham.

[APPLAUSE]

Obviously, we have a lot to cover tonight. Lets get started.

My colleague John Harwood has the first question.
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JOHN HARWOOD: Were going to pose this question to all candidates and go left to right, starting with

Governor Jindal.

Governor, a majority of Republican voters at this point in the campaign have made clear that they prefer

someone from outside the political system. In 30 seconds, tell us why your experience inside the system

would be more valuable than the fresh eyes an outsider would bring.

BOBBY JINDAL: John, I think the reason voters are so frustrated is nothing seems to change in DC.

Look, over the next the several hours, youre going to hear several Republicans, all tell you they want toshrink the size of government and grow the American economy. And it sounds great. Weve got to do it.

Heres the truth, of all these folks talking, Im the only one that has cut the size of government. Theres not

two of us; theres one of us. The rest of it is all just hot air.

When politicians talk, we need to pay attention to what they do, not what they say. Im the only one thats

reduced the size of government. Lets shrink the government economy, lets grow the American economy.

JOHN: Thanks, Governor Jindal.

Senator Santorum.

RICK SANTORUM: Yeah, I think its one thing to shrink the size of a state government, but its another

thing to actually get something accomplished in Washington. Its a much tougher field, and Im the one on

this stage, and frankly on both stages, that has actually gone to Washington, said we would shrink

government, said we would shake things up, and actually delivered for the conservative cause. Everything

from welfare reform, which was the largest, most significant accomplishment in the last 25 years for

conservatism. I authored the bill when I was in the House of Representatives, I managed the bill on the

floor of the United States Senate. You need a conservative who can deliver, and thats what I bring to the

table.

JOHN: Thank you, Senator.

And Governor Pataki.

GEORGE PATAKI: We need an outsider to run our party and to win the next election. Washington has

become a corrupt insider game. Everybody talks about how theyre going to change the taxes, grow the

economy, nothing seems to change. By the way, Bobby, I shrunk the size of New York States

government. When I left, we had reduced the employment by over 25,000 and cut taxes.

But I understand to change Washington, you have to understand government as well. You cant just be an

outsider, you cant just be someone who throws stones at Washington. You have to be someone who can

actually bring people together across party lines. I can do that. I will do that if I have the chance to lead this

party.

JOHN: Thank you, Governor.

Senator Graham.

LINDSEY GRAHAM: Thank you for having me here tonight. How about a round of applause for Boulder,

Colorado. This is a beautiful place.

[APPLAUSE]

Looking at their academic standards, anybody gotten into the university has been invited to this debate


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this nation. I intend to be a commander in chief that can win a war we cannot afford to lose.

JOHN: Thanks, Senator Graham.

PATAKI: John, can I quickly comment?

[CROSSTALK]

CARL QUINTANILLA: The question in the meantime for Senator Santorum. You have advocated a flat tax.

So wed like to ask you about fairness. Why is it fair to tax all Americans at the same rate as opposed totaxing more affluent Americans at higher rates?

SANTORUM: Well, if you look at my flat tax, it actually takes the best of what Steve Forbes, Art () and

many have been advocating a long time, which is a very strong pro tax code. Very simple. And it adjusts it

to make sure that it is not regressive. We have a $2,750 per person tax credit. Thats $2,750 off the taxes

due, not a deduction of credit. If you run the numbers, no American who is going to be paying more

taxes under our proposal. So we have accomplished both. We have a system that has a low single rate,

but we take care of American families. Im talking about $2,750 per person. That means a family of four,

thats an $11,000 tax credit. Thats very, very strong pro-family.

If you looked at the Wall Street Journal today and so many of the publications that have been out there,theyve talked about how the biggest problem () the middle of this country for workers to be able to rise and

actually the breakdown of the American family.

William Galston, a liberal, said that on the page of the Wall Street Journal today. That the key to poverty is

families. We put forth a pro-growth Steve Forbes plan, combined it with a pro-family plan, and thats why I

think its going to work and work effectively.

BECKY: Governor Pataki, lets get to your point. You wanted to make a comment on the budget. You want

to get in on the idea of what would you do if you were in Washington. Would you compromise or would you

PATAKI: I think it was a bad deal, but I would have voted for it for a very simple reason. Barack Obama is

the first President in American history to hold our military hostage. He knew that we needed funding for

overseas contingent operations, $30 million that would go to support our troops. And he was prepared and

had vetoed it unless this deal went through.

I have two sons. They both served overseas, one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. I understand we have got

to do far more to help our military, help our veterans and help protect our security. This is a bad deal. But to

protect our military, I would have signed it. Its not going to be the case. If I have a chance to lead this

country, were going to reduce the deficit, shrink the government, lower the tax burden and govern the

private sector because thats how you solve deficits.

BECKY: Governor Pataki, thank you.

John.

JOHN: Governor Jindal, a question about fiscal policy, especially since you noted that this deal doesnt

solve the long-term debt situation.

When you came into office with a budget surplus in the state of Louisiana, now years later the state

legislature faced a 1.6 billion budget gap, and a Republican state treasurer called one of your approaches

to that problem nonsense on a stick, quoting him. Are you going to do for the federal budget what you did

for the Louisiana budget?


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JINDAL: Absolutely, John. And what we did is we cut state spending. Weve cut our budget 26 percent.

According to Cato and other analysis, the only () thats actually reduced government spending.

Look, the left always complains theres not enough money for government. We have 30,000 fewer state

employees since the day I took office. Eight credit upgrades. Were a top ten state for private sector job

creation.

Weve got a choice. You grow the government economy or the American economy. When I became

governor, we had 25 years without ()migration. We were coming back from Katrina. The question many

were asking, Will Louisiana rebuild? Should Louisiana rebuild?

Seven years in a row, more people moving into the state than leaving the state. We now have more people

working than ever before, earning a higher income than ever before.

Yes, we have reduced the size of government. Thats exactly what we need to do in DC. In DC, the

Republicans slow the growth rate. They claim victory. Thats not enough. Lets be honest with where we

are today. We are running off a cliff. Well be the next Greece. We can rearrange the chair, over $18 trillion

of debt. No wonder our economy has been stagnant. We havent had real growth. If youre a young

student here, you have not seen a robust economy.

JOHN: Governor Jindal, as you know, many Republicans are opposed to the approach that youve taken inLouisiana. They complain that you have tried so hard to avoid anything that could be called a tax increase

so that you could run for President saying you would never raise taxes. David Vitter, the Republican who is

now running to succeed you, has told voters, I wont be like Jindal. Im not using the governorship as a

steppingstone to higher office.

JINDAL: Well, John, a couple things. Not only do we not raise taxes, we did the largest income tax cut in

the states history. And Im proud of that record. I think thats the kind of leadership voters want in DC.

Look, if you want a Republican thats going to grow government spending, if you want a candidate who is

going to increase taxes, Im not your guy. If you want somebody thats going to do and say the things that

cant be said, cant be done, Im asking you to vote for me, to join my cause. Thats how dangerous thesetimes are.

These are dangerous times for America. I think we have a chance to rescue the idea of America, but if we

dont do it now, four years will be too late from now.

So, yes, Im proud we cut taxes, we cut spending, 30,000 fewer state government bureaucrats from the

day I took office. I absolutely will do that in DC.

JOHN: Governor Jindal, thank you.

CARL: We are going to take a quick break. The Republican Presidential debate continues live fromBoulder, Colorado, in a moment.

[APPLAUSE]

[BREAK]

>> Welcome back to the Republican Presidential Debate, live in Boulder, Colorado, on CNBC. We resume

our questions now with Jim Cramer, the host of CNBCs Mad Money.

Jim.


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JIM CRAMER: Thank you, Carl. Governor Pataki, in the wake of the Sony hack last year, you said, quote,

At the very least, we should declare cyber war on North Korea.

What does a cyber war look like? And if our companies are getting attacked by foreign governments, do

we need a military response?

PATAKI: No, I dont think we need a military response, but we need a coordinated response. And I have to

say that I think that the Obama Administration has been completely lax, to say the least, in dealing with

these cyber attacks, not just by governments like North Korea, but by particularly Chinese and other

countries.

And what I would do is put in place a policy where if we know a company, say a Chinese company, is

hacking into American companies, stealing trade secrets, as we know they do every day, we will retaliate

against that company and say that that company is not going to be allowed to continue to do trade with the

United States.

I would also look at what were doing at the federal level and put in place what Israel has done, a one

federal agency dealing with cyber security and charged with working across the aisles to make sure we

have the best technology.

And, Jim, I have to tell you something, talking about cyber security, Hillary Clinton put a server, anunsecure server, in her home as Secretary of State. We have no doubt that that was hacked and that state

secrets are out there to the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese and others. That, alone, should disqualify

her from being President of the United States.

[APPLAUSE]

JIM: Senator Graham, youre a hawk. Is that tough enough?

GRAHAM: Heres the problem. Were being walked all over because our Commander in Chief is weak in

the eyes of our enemies. Do you think Putin would be in the Ukraine today if Ronald Reagan were

President?

Why are the Chinese stealing are our intellectual property, hacking into our system? Why are they building

islands over resource-rich waters? Because they can get away with it.

At the end of the day, ladies and gentlemen, the foreign policy of Barack Obama needs to be replaced and

the last person you want to find to replace his foreign policy is his Secretary of State.

So, to the Chinese, when it comes to dealing with me, youve got a clenched fist and an open hand. You

pick. The party is over to all the dictators. Make me commander in chief and this crap stops.

JIM: Governor Santorum, we know that a troubling amount of air pollution on the West Coast comes from

China. Should we enact a pollution tax on products imported from China and give our manufacturers a

level playing field?

SANTORUM: Well, we shouldnt be putting tariffs on anything. That hurts working men and women in this

country. What we should be doing is making our manufacturing more competitive. One of the reasons I

introduced the 20/20 plan, 20 percent flat tax on corporations as well as on individuals, is so we could be

competitive, so we can bring those manufacturing jobs back.

You want to talk about cutting pollution. You do a little back of the envelope. We produce, per dollar GDP,

about one-fifth of the CO2 and other pollutants that China produces. So were five times more efficient at

producing goods here as far as the environment is concerned.


7/21

Why dont we if we really want to tackle environmental problems, global warming, what we need to do is

take those jobs from China and bring them back here to the United States, employ workers in this country.

Weve lost 2 million jobs, 2 million jobs, under this administration in manufacturing. 15,000 manufacturers

have left this country.

Why? Because of bad tax policy, bad regulatory policy and, yes, bad trade policy. We need to have a

President thats going to pledge, as I have. Im going to make America the number one manufacturer so

working men and women can have good-paying jobs again in America.

JIM: Thank you, Senator.

[APPLAUSE]

John?

JOHN: Governor Jindal, Senator Santorum just raised the issue of corporate taxes, and cutting corporate

taxes is very popular in your party because our rate at 35 percent is one of the highest in the world. But

nobody has figured out how to identify a set of loopholes that would allow that tax rate to be lowered. So

can you tell us specifically what loopholes you would do away with?

JINDAL: Absolutely, John, I would go further. My tax plan, like everybodys, is like a lot of Republicans.Look, Id get rid of the death penalty and the marriage penalty and Id simplify the brackets to 25 percent,

10 percent, 2 percent so that an average middle-class family a teacher married to law enforcement

JOHN: We are talking corporate taxes.

JINDAL: Im going to get to that pays 25 percent today would pay 10 percent under my plan.

But my plan does three things different from other peoples plans. Remember, I said 2 percent. I think

everybody should pay something. Even if its only 2 percent. Thats the most important 2 percent of

my plan. I know a lot of Republicans brag you all can clap. It doesnt scare me. Go ahead. I heard some

people.

There are millions of folks that wouldnt pay taxes in Jebs plan and Trumps plan. I think thats a mistake.

In terms of the corporate tax.

Secondly, I would get rid of the corporate tax. We do have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed

world. I would get rid of it. I would get rid of all the corporate welfare. Make the CEOs pay their same tax

rates the way the rest of us do. And, third, I would purposely shrink the size of government. You know, that

is an intentional feature of my plan. Weve got a choice. Do we grow the government economy or the

American economy? So I say get rid of the corporate tax. Bring those jobs and investments here to the

United States, stop sending jobs and investment overseas.

BECKY: Governor Pataki, lets talk a little bit about whats happened on Wall Street. Some of your

colleagues in the Republican party, including some of the people on this stage, have bashed Wall Street.

They say that it was largely responsible for the financial crisis.

You are a former Governor of New York and relied very heavily on Wall Street for income. Do you think

theyve gone too far?

PATAKI: I think they have gone too far. I think weve seen Wall Street really blossom and do very well when

the rest of the country is struggling. And its because we have this corrupt connection between Wall Street

and Washington.


8/21

And, John, you were just talking about what loopholes would you get rid of. I would get rid of virtually every

single one of them. They cost American taxpayers $1.4 trillion a year. I would throw them all out.

JOHN: The credit right now that we have for domestic manufacturing, you would say get rid of that?

PATAKI: No, I would keep first, yes, but what I would do, I would lower the tax on manufacturing to the

lowest in the developed world, 12 percent.

We all have plans. I have a plan. We all have plans. My plan, the Tax Foundation said, would create 5 and

a half million new jobs over the next decade. The difference, though, is I will get my plan enacted.

Because when I was Governor of New York, I passed sweeping tax code cuts in a democratic state with

a democratic legislature. Bobby, youre talking about your tax cuts. I cut taxes more than everybody on this

stage. More than everybody on the next stage combined by more than the other 49 states, in New York

State. I dont just have a plan. I will enact tax cuts, get rid of those loopholes, and make the system fairer

for all Americans.

BECKY: Governor Pataki, thank you.

CARL: Governor Graham, you have said you believe that climate change is real. You said you accept tax

increases as part of a budget deal with Democrats. Youve co-sponsored a Senate immigration bill,

providing a path to citizenship for those in the country illegally. Are you in the wrong partys debate?

[LAUGHTER]

GRAHAM: No, I think Im trying to solve problems that somebody better solve. Now, you dont have to

believe that climate change is real. I have been to the Antarctic; Ive been to Alaska. Im not a scientist, and

Ive got the grades to prove it. But Ive talked to the climatologists of the world, and 90 percent of them are

telling me that greenhouse gas effect is real. That were heating up the planet. I just want a solution that

would be good for the economy that doesnt destroy it.

I want to fix an immigration system. Im not going to tell you if you like your doctor, you can keep them; if

you like your healthcare, you can keep it. Im tired of telling people things that they want to hear that we

know were not going to do.

Were not going to eliminate the corporate tax, but we can make it lower. Were going to fix immigration

only if we work together.

I want to secure the border, because if we dont, were going to get hurt and hit again. I want to fix a broken

visa system. I want to increase legal immigration because were going to have a shortage of workers over

time.

As to the 11 million, I want to talk about fixing the problem. Were not going to deport 11 million people and

their legal citizen children, but we will deport felons. And those who stay will have to learn our language to

stay, because I dont speak it well, but look how far how, at the end of the day, folks, I am trying to solve

the problem and win an election. Im tired of losing.

Good God, look who were running against. The number one candidate on the other side thought she was

flat broke after her and her husband were in the White House for eight years. The number two guy went to

the Soviet Union on his honeymoon, and I dont think he ever came back. If we dont beat these people

[APPLAUSE]


9/21

CARL: Senator, you are well over your minute, but thank you for that. Well be back from Boulder,

Colorado, in just a moment.

[BREAK]

BECKY: Welcome back, everyone. This is the Republican Presidential Debate on CNBC, live from the

University of Colorado.

Senator Santorum, Id like to go to you.

You have talked an awful lot about how you want to protect the American jobs by limiting the number of

immigrants who come into this country.

Very recently, the CEO of Toll Brothers told us that he cant get by without immigrants because they make

up more than half of his workforce at this point. Were not talking about people who are making minimum

wage, but he cant find Americans who want to do these jobs for $20-an-hour-plus jobs.

What would happen if your plans are successful? What happens and how would we fill that hole in the

economy, that gap thats created?

SANTORUM: Well, as you know, Becky, we have the lowest labor participation rate in 50 years, and wealso have the slowest growth in wages in the history of our country, in a 20-year period. In fact, the last

quarter, the lowest wage growth ever recorded.

And so you look at the fact that we brought in 35 million, 35 million legal and illegal immigrants over the last

20 years, more than any period in American history. We have low wages, low participation rates. Maybe

theres something going on, like we dont have the right match, right? We arent giving the training and the

investment in our workers and were bringing in people to compete against low-wage workers. Thats what

is happening.

We have an immigration policy that Senator Graham supported that brings in even more low-wage

workers into this country. He says he wants to solve problems. Thats great, but youre not solvingproblems for American wage earners. Youre not solving problems for workers in America, who have seen

their wages flatline and have been disaffected enough to leave the workplace.

We need to get better training, better skills, including vocational education and training in community

colleges. But the bottom line is, we have to make sure that we are not flooding this country with

BECKY: Im sorry, your minute is up. Thank you very much, Senator Santorum.

And, Mr. Graham, yes, that was a question to you, too. You have 30 seconds.

GRAHAM: The first thing we have to do is come to grips with the reality that were facing as Americans. In

1950, there were 16 workers for every Social Security recipient. Today theres three. In 20 years, there aretwo.

I want to make sure that no American company leaves America because you cant find a worker. American

workers always get the first preference, but if you cant find an American worker after you advertise at a

competitive wage, I dont want you to be at a loss. Bring people in based on merit. Lets take a broken

immigration

BECKY: Senator Graham, thank you, Im sorry. Thats your 30 seconds.

GRAHAM: and make a merit-based immigration system that will help our economy. Were going to need


10/21

workers in the

BECKY: Senator

[CROSSTALK]

SANTORUM: Let me try to get a word in edgewise.

[CROSSTALK]

PATAKI: Very simply, you guys talk over each other in Washington all the time. Im not used to that. We

listen when people talk. We have a skills gap.

You mentioned the construction company. The construction industry says one of their biggest problems,

they cant find the craftsmen to do the work.

What we have to do in America, is honor blue-collar work again. We have to honor the carpenter, the

plumber, the electrician who can actually build something. And instead of just saying that a college degree

delivers prestige, lets celebrate those who do things with their hands and elevate their skills, using training

in high school and community colleges

BECKY: Governor Pataki

PATAKI: so that we can have a better-quality workforce

BECKY: Governor Pataki, Im sorry, to talk over you, sir. That was a minute. Thank you very much.

Carl?

[APPLAUSE]

CARL: A question for Governor Jindal. Paul Ryan says he would take the Speaker job if it did not take

away from his family time. The Department of Labor says 13 percent of American workers are eligible for

paid family leave, and the U.S. is the only developed nation in the world not to have guaranteed paid

maternity leave for new moms. Should the government work to change that?

JINDAL: Look, I think the government should work to change that. That does not mean Im for the

government mandating that. We already have too many government mandates out of DC. Do I want

people to have paid leave? Sure. More people to earn higher wages? Sure. Do I want them to have better

benefits? Sure. The government cant wave a magic wand and make that happen.

Heres the problem. Over the past seven years, President Obama has tried to teach the American people

the government is the answer to all of our problems. Where has that gotten us? We are on the path

towards socialism. The way that folks can get better-paying jobs with better benefits is we have a growing

economy. That means repeal all of Obamacare, a lower, flatter tax code. That means we have an energy

plan that makes sense. That means we embrace an all of the above approach to energy. Those are

good-paying jobs. The 50-, 70-, $90,000 paying jobs with benefits.

But this President wont let us produce more energy on our domestic federal lands and waters. He wont

allow the Canadians to build a Keystone pipeline. Hes got an EPA thats doing everything they can to kill

private sector jobs in America.

So, yes, I want families to have better-paying jobs and better benefits, but were not going to get that with a

government mandate. Were going to get that with a growing economy.


11/21

CARL: Governor, thank you.

John?

JOHN: Senator Graham, Americans have gotten used to seeing headlines about more and more big

corporations relocating overseas to cut their tax bill. Now many in Washington think the way to stop that is

to lower our corporate tax rate. But as weve seen, tax reform takes time. Hasnt happened yet.

In the meantime, do you fault those companies for leaving? Do companies owe anything to their country as

well as their shareholders?

GRAHAM: We owe to every businessperson and worker in America the best environment in the world to

create a job. We owe that to American business. 35 percent corporate tax rate is the second highest in the

world. We need to lower it so they dont leave.

The goal is to help the middle class. We can talk about corporations all day long, but my goal is to help the

middle class, somebody who makes too much to be on government assistance but still lives paycheck to

paycheck. When the kid gets sick, you dont go on vacation. Thats the purpose of my presidency, to grow

the economy here.

And let me tell you, our democratic friends have a list a mile long for more government. Thats not going togrow the middle class. Thats going to create a burden on your children, which they are already

overburdened. The best way to grow the middle class is to make it a good place to create a job.

Do you know why Boeing came to South Carolina when they could have gone anywhere to build the 787?

Because we wanted them. We had a structure

>> Senator Graham.

GRAHAM: a structure that allowed them to build the building even faster than they thought they could

build it. We welcomed them there. Im going to take the South Carolina

JOHN: I want to remind candidates that you have got a one-minute limit on the response, but I just want to

follow up, Senator Graham.

Four years ago, the nominee of your party said that corporations are people too. If that is true, the question

is, do they owe any obligation to the country?

GRAHAM: I think everybody owes an obligation to the country. The ones that Im most worried about are

the 1 percent of Americans in uniform who have been fighting this war for 14 years. They need a

commander in chief who knows what the hell theyre doing.

My first job as President of the United States is to rebuild the military and use it smartly. Admiral Mullen

said the debt is a big threat to our national security. Hes right. But people go where theyre welcome whenit comes to job creation. If I am President of the United States, you will be welcomed in America. This will

be the place to come when it comes to a job. If I am

JOHN: Thank you much. Were moving on.

BECKY: You guys are making

[CROSSTALK]

JOHN: Senator, were moving on. I would like to bring on my colleague, Rick Santelli. Rick?


12/21

RICK SANTELLI: Thanks, John.

Governor Pataki.

PATAKI: Hey, Rick.

RICK: How are you doing tonight?

PATAKI: Im doing great.

RICK: Listen, Americas Central Bank, Federal Reserve, they have kept interest rates near zero since the

2008 financial crisis. And, by the way, they had a meeting tonight. Do you think they raised rates? No.

Shocking, isnt it?

PATAKI: Not at all.

RICK: Its been a rough ride for American savers and retirees. They really rely on this interest income. And

its been a bonanza for the stock market, a bonanza. And for investors that like a little bit more risk, its

been a bonanza for them as well.

So I guess what Im asking is, do you think this policy is fair and do you support it?

PATAKI: No, I dont support it.

But let me go back a little bit here. We need to grow our economy faster. Weve had the worst economic

recovery since the Great Depression. And its because of policy in Washington and policy at the Fed.

Let me go back to Washington. In 2009

JOHN: Governor, if thats true, why was our economy limping years ago, and now its the strongest in the

world?

PATAKI: John, no question Barack Obama inherited an economic disaster in 2009. But what did he do?Instead of focusing on pro-growth policies and the economy, he ran through Obamacare, the worst law of

my lifetime, that hurt small businesses, hurt companies, raised taxes, and almost completely eliminated

one industry because of its taxes.

The Fed had to act. And the Fed did act appropriately in reducing interest rates. But theyve reduced them

now for seven straight years. Thats never happened before. Theyve been zero for way too long. They

should raise the rates. The Fed should get out of manipulating the market. And the Fed also, by the way,

should reduce its balance sheet, 2.7 trillion, let some of those bonds mature and put the money back in the

banking system so our economy can grow.

RICK: Thanks, Governor.

Senator Santorum, in the 2012 presidential debates, you were for the export/import bank, which facilitates

government funding for U.S. exports. American companies like GE and Boeing are among the

beneficiaries.

But, you said that killing the bank here and Im going to quote you is the last thing a true conservative

should be doing.

I dont know, government-backed funding isnt normally what I hear from true conservatives. So why is this

situation different?


13/21

SANTORUM: A true conservative loves to create a level playing field. Thats what government is supposed

to do. Theyre not supposed to favor one group over another. And when it comes to our manufacturers, the

level playing field is not in the United States, its international. And so the federal government should have

laws, tax laws, regulatory laws and, yes, finance laws.

Theres 60 other ex-im banks all over the world. Every major competitor for the United States

manufacturing dollar has one of those banks.

And guess what? They use those banks a heck of a lot more than the United States of America does,

number one.

So in order to have a level playing field, which is what conservatives talk about all the time, a level playing

field, then we have to have export financing.

And heres why: Because export financing doesnt help Boeing or GE. GE just lost a contract. You know

what they did? They went to France. They got the ex-im bank in France to support it. And what did they do?

They moved manufacturing out of South Carolina, out of Texas, moved it to Hungary and to France.

GE is still making money, GE is still doing well, but American workers are out of jobs. Thats why we have

to have this level playing field so we can compete with the rest of the world.

RICK: Thanks, Senator.

CARL: CNBCs coverage of the Republican Presidential debate continues, live from the University of

Colorado, after this short break.

[BREAK]

CARL: Welcome back to the University of Colorado and the Republican Presidential Debate on CNBC.

[APPLAUSE]

A question for Senator Santorum. People in this state have loved Coors beer since it was founded in 1873.

[APPLAUSE]

The brewer later became part of SAB Miller, but now SAB may be bought by Budweiser owner InBev.

Is it right to have a third of brewers in this country owned by one company? Do you fear a company of that

size will have too much power over consumers?

SANTORUM: Well, first, since you mentioned Colorado, I just want to thank the people of Colorado,

because four years ago you gave me the honor of winning the nomination out here in the state of Colorado

and on a night we won three states, and it catapulted us to win 11 states, ultimately. And so I just want tothank you very, very much for that support.

And in response to that, I do drink a lot of Coors beer, so thought I would help.

The answer is pretty simple. The answer is simple. There are no shortage of breweries around the United

States of America.

I do as I travel around the country, I do pints and politics, and I go to breweries all over the place. And

there is almost no town in America that doesnt have a brewery. So I dont think we need to worry too

much.


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Obviously, if theres some anti-competitive issues, we have agencies to look at that. But, no, Im not

concerned that Americans are not going to have choices in beer.

CARL: Lets get to that. I mean, another example is Walgreens.

SANTORUM: And I care about that.

CARL: Im sure you do.

Walgreen-Rite-Aid. Big deal, consolidation in drugstores. Semiconductors, food. What is the line at whichsomething becomes anticompetitive, in your view?

SANTORUM: I would just say this, that what youre seeing is in healthcare, youre seeing a lot of

consolidation and that consolidation is occurring because of Obamacare. You are seeing it particularly in

an area that I am concerned about. And thats in health insurance. Youre seeing the big health insurance

companies fold up. You have seen Obama try to feed health insurance companies, and they have all

failed, I think, except one.

Why? Because we have a system of Obamacare, with minimum loss ratios, that make it virtually

impossible for a small insurer to operate effectively. And this was the motive behind Obamacare. This

wasnt incidental. This was deliberate to make it so impossible for smaller insurers to survive. If theyconsolidate into a small group, then the left can say, Oh, there is no competition, we need the single payer.

Thats why we have to reform Obamacare.

[APPLAUSE]

BECKY: Governor Jindal, I want to go back to something that you mentioned before with your tax plan. I

know that you want to put a 2 percent tax on all families, just to make sure everyone has some skin in the

game. But every working American pays 6.2 percent when it comes to Social Security taxes. They pay

another 1.4 percent in Medicare. Isnt that skin in the game?

JINDAL: Well, a couple things. Youre talking about payroll taxes that fund programs. People pay for themedical care; they pay for their Social Security. I want every American to worry and care about how those

folks in DC are spending our money.

We have $18 trillion in debt. They are misspending our money. Earned success is so much more fulfilling

than unearned success. I dont want us to continue to create one class of Americans that pays income

taxes, that pays for government, another class of Americans thats growing more and more dependent on

government. Thats what we have today.

Socialism is bad, not only for taxpayers, but for people that they say theyre trying to help. There is dignity

in work. There is dignity in self-sufficiency.

I want to quote to you a president. A previous president said this. He said, The problem is, is that tax rates

are too high. Government income/revenues are too low. He said, paradoxically, lowering tax rates now is

the best way to produce higher government revenues later.

No, that wasnt President Reagan, as many are probably guessing at home. That was President Kennedy.

I see you know the answer. That was President Kennedy. Imagine if he were alive today and if he was at

that last Democratic debate. Imagine if you try to say that in a party thats gearing towards socialism, that

wouldnt be welcome in todays Democratic Party.

BECKY: Governor, thank you.


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JOHN: Governor Pataki, youve indicated you believe climate change is real and caused at least in part by

human activity. So in 60 seconds, tell us what the federal government is to do about it.

PATAKI: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that troubles me about the Republican Party is too often we

question science that everyone accepts. I mean, its ridiculous in the 21st century we are questioning

whether or not () things are the appropriate way to go. Of course they are. And its also not appropriate to

think that human activity, putting CO2 into the atmosphere, doesnt make the earth warmer, all things being

equal. It does. Its uncontroverted.

I think part of the problem is the () way Republicans think about climate change. Say, Oh, my God. We are

going to have higher taxes, more Obama, more big government, the EPA shutting down factories. Thats

not the solution I see.

I want Republicans to embrace innovation and technology. You know, there is one country in the world that

has fewer greenhouse gas emissions than the rest of the world. You know what that is? The United States.

Our emissions are lower than they were in 1995. Not because of a government program, but because of

fracking, private sector creation

JOHN: Is there a role for government?

PATAKI: Governments role is to incentivize innovation and the entrepreneurial spirit in America. We canhave far more clean energy. We can have next generation nuclear reactors that have no risk of meltdown.

We can have solar panels on every home that are four times more efficient than today.

JOHN: So subsidies for those programs, for those alternative

PATAKI: R&D credits that the private sectors do this, develop this innovation. Not only would we solve our

problems, we would have clean energy, cheaper energy here. We could export those technologies to

places like China, like India. So we would grow our economy, have a far greater impact globally, have a

secured domestic source of energy and cleaner, healthier air. Thats the solution. Embrace science,

embrace innovation and change.


Carl.

CARL: Question for Senator Santorum.

>>> Can I just say something about this?

CARL: After this question, maybe.

The 2015 Nobel Prize winner for economics argues that slow growth causes poverty. And that leads to

inequality. What would you do to ease inequality and what would you do to solve poverty?

By the way, thanks to Larry Kudlow of CNBC for this question.

SANTORUM: Well, if you look at a plan that I introduced, the 20/20 clear vision for America, we increased

growth by 10 percent, 1 percent a year. So we go from 2.3 to 3.3. In repealing Obamacare, its another .7.

So youre looking at 4 percent growth, according to the Tax Foundation.

And unlike Donald Trump and Bobby Jindal, we dont add $10 trillion to the deficit. In fact, our plan, while it

creates as many jobs as their plan does, and grows the economy as much as theirs does, we are a

revenue-neutral plan because I believe that we need to reduce the size of government, yes, but we also


16/21

need to reduce our deficit, and we need to get our budget balanced so we can start paying down this debt.

And adding a trillion dollars worth of tax cut and getting no more growth is not the way to do it. But thats

only half of it. The word economy comes from the Greek word oikos, which means family.

The family is the first economy. The one thing that we do not talk about enough is how stable families are

vitally important for the middle of America to be prosperous and grow and be safe. And I will have policies

not just tax policies that will make sure that families are strong again in America.

CARL: Governor Jindal, I want to give you 30 seconds on this.

JINDAL: Well, thank you. Look, if Senator Santorum wants to concede the tax cut wing of the Republican

Party, Im happy to fight for that side of the Republican party. Hes exactly right. I explicitly want to shrink

the size of government. 22 percent over ten years is not too much. Weve cut our state budget 26 percent

in 8 years.

This is a fundamental choice. We mustnt become a cheaper version of the Democratic Party, a second

liberal party. We need to proudly say were willing to cut taxes, shrink government, grow the American

economy.

President Kennedy said it to the Democratic Party, why cant we say it in the Republican Party in 2015.

Lets cut taxes.

[APPLAUSE]

JOHN: Governor, if you cut spending and cut government so much, why does your legislature have such a

big deficit?

JINDAL: John, our budget is balanced. We balanced our budget every year for 8 years. Yeah, we had to

cut spending. You know what? We privatized or closed 9 of our 10 charity hospitals. We did statewide

school choice.

JOHN: $1.6 billion budget gap.

JINDAL: Youre quoting an old number from the beginning of the year. We closed that gap. What they talk

about, just like DC, government is the only place where if you give them less money than they wanted,

they count it as a cut. They take last years budget, they add inflation, they call it a baseline. We need to

do zero-based budgeting. We need to say just because you got money last year, you dont have it this

year let me close, though. We balanced our budget. We didnt raise taxes. In 8 years weve never

raised taxes. We cut taxes. Our taxpayers, our families are the better off for it.

JOHN: Im going to bring on my colleague Sharon Epperson.

SHARON EPPERSON: Thank you, John.

Senator Graham, one in every four workers has saved less than a thousand dollars for retirement. Millions

of Americans rely on the Social Security benefits for the majority of their retirement income.

Now you called for reforms to Social Security. But what would you do to fix the other part of the problem for

future retirees and get people to save more?

GRAHAM: Well, number one, Social Security is not just a concept to me. I know why it exists. 50 percent

of todays seniors would be in poverty without a Social Security check. I promise you, if you make me your

President, I will save Social Security because I know why it exists.


17/21

Now, if youre looking for good beer policy, Im your best bet. My dad owned the bar.

[LAUGHTER]

I know beer. We grew up, my sister and myself, in the back of that bar, in one room with my mom, my dad

and my sister, who is nine years younger. When I was 21, my mom was diagnosed with Hodgkins disease.

Neither parent finished high school. She died within a year. We were wiped out from the medical bills. And

if it wasnt for Social Security survivor benefit check coming into my family, we wouldnt have made it.

Because my dad died 15 months later. So Im

SHARON: Senator Graham

GRAHAM: Wait a minute, please. Im 22, and were wiped out. I am 60. Im not married; I have a military

retirement. Im in good shape. I would give up some of my benefits to help those who need it more than I

do.

To young people here, I will ask you to work a little bit longer because we have to. The purpose of my

presidency

SHARON: Thank you.

GRAHAM: is to save this country. And to save Social Security by working across the aisle, just like

Ronald Reagan. This is the biggest issue facing this nation.

SHARON: Thank you, Senator Graham. Thank you, Senator Graham.

Governor Jindal, youve been a strong supporter of for-profit colleges, either institutions that educate many

veterans, minorities, and working-class Americans. They make up about 11 percent of the college

population at these schools, but they account for 44 percent of student loan defaults.

Should for-profit schools be held accountable when they take taxpayer money and leave students deep in

debt?

JINDAL: Well, two things. Absolutely they should be accountable. They should be accountable for their

students through the market.

Look, you either trust the American people to make their own choices or you dont. I know the Left thinks

we need to be protected from ourselves. President Obama is trying to limit competition in the higher-

education market. As a result, you are going to see tuition prices continue to go up. Weve got a trillion

dollars of student debt, and counting, and he wants to exempt certain schools from the same oversight he

wants to apply only to the for-profit market.

For some reason, the private sector is a bad word to this President. Its not in the real world.

In Louisiana, we fought so that the dollars follow the child, instead of the child following the dollar. What

that means from K through 12, what that means is that parents and their families can decide what is the

best way for their children to be educated. Higher education, we have a TOPS program, where again, we

will help if a student maintains a 20 ACT, 2.5 GPA, well pay for their tuition. They can take those dollars to

a private school of their choice in the state as well. You either trust the American people or you dont.

I know the Left doesnt.

Thats why you get Obamacare, and they want to tell us what kind of insurance to buy. Thats why you get

Common Core. They want to take away our gun rights under the Second Amendment. They want to take


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away our religious liberty rights.

So, yes, there is accountability to the students through choice and competition. We dont need the nanny

state to protect us from ourselves.

SHARON: Thank you, Governor Jindal.

BECKY: Welcome back to Boulder, Colorado, and the Republican Presidential Debate on CNBC.

Gentlemen, this is our lightning round. We have questions for you, and we hope you can answer in 20seconds or less, and we will go right down the line on this.

Governor Jindal, Ill start with you. Wondering, what are the three apps that you use most frequently on

your cell phone?

JINDAL: I was just saying to my colleague, I may be the last person in this audience without an iPhone.

Im actually one of the last ones, I still have a BlackBerry in my pocket, and I basically use it for scheduling.

I use it to keep up with my wifes here, my three kids at home.

The only games on that phone are Brick Layer. I use it to keep up with the news on the internet. I may be

the last American out there without a smartphone. My apologies.

BECKY: No, Im with you. I still have a BlackBerry, too.

Senator Santorum, how about you?

SANTORUM: MLB, NHL. So Im a big sports fan. And the Wall Street Journal. Those are the three apps I

use the most.

BECKY: Thank you. Governor?

PATAKI: The one I use the most is Uber. You know, I used to get driven. When I was governor, I had a

driver. I dont anymore. Its an example of what Millennials are doing to change America for the better. AndI tweet a lot, too. So Uber, Twitter, and then I communicate with my family.

BECKY: Thank you. Senator Graham?

GRAHAM: Well, number one, the only reason I have an iPhone is because I gave my number to Donald

Trump. Dont do that.

[LAUGHTER]

That was more upgrading technology in my whole staff. Number one, FOX News. Sorry, CNBC. Were in

the Republican primary here.

>> Thanks a lot.

BECKY: Well take your time back.

GRAHAM: Times up.

>> Take the microphone.

CARL: Weve got one more. One more lightning round.

Governor Jindal, should the day after the Super Bowl be a national holiday?


19/21

JINDAL: Absolutely. When the Saints go back to repeat we were talking about beer sales earlier. All

those folks who are being hung over in Louisiana from drinking and celebrating Drew Brees winning it, I

think it would be a great day to take off.

No, look. On a serious note, I do want to say this about the Super Bowl and our athletes. They can be

great role models for our children, and Im, obviously, a Saints fan. Drew Brees and his wife, great role

models, great Christians. So, yes, it should be a holiday.

CARL: Senator?

SANTORUM: Well, since were usually in the Super Bowl, the Pittsburgh Steelers Steeler Nation,

anybody? No.

I was in Kansas City over the weekend to watch the Steeler game, and about a third of the crowd were

Steeler fans, so Im usually not alone when I call out Steeler Nation. But we are used to being in the

Super Bowl, so actually, it is in Pennsylvania already.

CARL: Governor?

PATAKI: Im a long-suffering Jets fan, so my answer is no, theres no reason to take off the day after the

Super Bowl.

[LAUGHTER]

Let me just add this. The Mets are going to win tonight.

CARL: Finally, Senator.

GRAHAM: Well, I think a national holiday would be the day that Commander in Chief Barack Obama

doesnt have that job.

[APPLAUSE]

But unlike these other three, I want to win New Hampshire. Go Tom Brady, go Patriots.

[BOOS]

GRAHAM: Sorry, Colorado.

JOHN: Now were at the point in the evening where were just about to give our candidates a holiday from

this debate. But not before they tell us in 30 seconds their closing statements.

Senator Graham, youre first.

GRAHAM: Somebody said, or maybe I saw it on the bill of a cap: Lets make America great again. Americais great!

[APPLAUSE]

I intend to make America strong again.

Im going to be the champion of the middle class where I came from. If you make me your President, our

best days are ahead. Im ready to be commander in chief.

Ladies and gentlemen, on day one, I intend to win a war that we cannot afford to lose. I will be a

commander in chief worthy of sacrifice of those brave Americans who have been defending our nation.


20/21

They have had our back. God knows they have had our back. I intend to have their back as commander in

chief. Make me commander in chief.

JOHN: Thank you, Senator Graham.

Governor Pataki?

PATAKI: Thank you for the opportunity to be with this great audience tonight. Im a limited government

conservative. And I mean by that that not just when it comes to economic issues, leaving them to the state,

but social issues as well. And in that I differ from every single other candidate seeking the Republican

nomination. I take the Tenth Amendment very, very seriously.

Im a Republican who embraces science and understands we have to work with the next generation of

Millennials to have the innovation and technology so that we can grow a 21st century economy.

And Im a Republican who understands in Washington, when youre a leader, you have to put aside

partisan politics to do whats right for the people. We are one America. We work together across party

lines. There is no problem we cant solve, and the 21st century will be Americas greatest century.

Thank you very much.

[APPLAUSE]


Senator Santorum.

SANTORUM: I grew up in a steel town in western Pennsylvania, outside of Pittsburgh, and when I

announced for President, I announced from a factory floor.

When I talk about making America the number one manufacturer again in the world, its not just talk. When

I talk about having the opportunity for people to rise again, its not just because it polls well.

I represented the old steel valley of Pittsburgh. I represented a 70 percent Democratic district and won with

60 percent of the vote. Why? Because I aligned myself with working men and women who feel that neither

party and certainly not Washington, D.C., cares about them. You are like me. We will get American

workers on the side of the Republican party, and we cannot be stopped if we do.

JOHN: Senator Santorum, thank you.

Governor Jindal.

[APPLAUSE]

JINDAL: Our message is to conservatives. This is our hour. Thanks to the insanity, the incompetence of

the Democratic Party, the American people are ready to turn our government over to us.

Its not enough to elect just any Republican, however. The reality is, the idea of America is slipping away.

As Christians, we believe that the tomb is empty. As Americans, we believe that our best days are always

ahead of us, and they can be again.

We must win this election. We cannot allow Hillary Clinton to take us down this path towards socialism,

further down this path. Ive got the courage to apply our conservative principles. I cant do it alone. With

your help, with Gods grace, we can save the idea of America before its too late.


21/21

JOHN: Governor Jindal, thank you very much.

CARL: That concludes our first part of the evening. Were going to get set up for our next round. In the

meantime, CNBCs Kelly Evans and Joe Kernen pick up our continuing coverage.

[APPLAUSE]

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