thurrock council - advance questions for frost estate meeting...advance questions for frost estate...

Thurrock Council Advance questions for Frost Estate meeting

Highways and road maintenance

1. Are there any alternatives that Thurrock Council could offer to address the issues of the roads? (x3). Employing a parish council does appear to be a very expensive solution to this problem. The roads are dangerous. How will the roads be repaired without widening or having concrete footpaths and for all households to pay the same amount towards the cost? The roads are deteriorating every week and many residents are blocking off their verge areas. This needs urgent action now. What solution can you offer?

Thurrock Council has responsibilities as a highway authority and for residents, and is responsible for the maintenance of adopted roads. The policy for the standard required before Thurrock would adopt the roads has been developed so that the council does not take on roads which could become a maintenance liability.

Accepting a lower standard would lead to increased costs for repairs and could set a precedent for other areas.

2. As a council adopted road, can Lampits Hill Avenue not be excluded from this proposed parish council?

This is not specifically a highways issue, but it would be advantageous if the area for the parish is suitable for a number of issues not solely the road maintenance.

3. It is no secret that the proposed parish council is solely being set up to tackle the issues with specific areas of highway on the Frost Estate. Let us assume in 4 years' time the roads have been brought up to an acceptable standard and we have no real need for a parish council. The roads would have been purchased from the crown – where would ownership/responsibility reside should the parish council disband? Is Thurrock Council not wary of this scenario?

If the roads are brought up to full adoptable standard then the Parish (as a developer) can require Thurrock Council to adopt the roads. In this scenario then if the parish disbands the roads would retain the adopted status and be repaired by Thurrock Council.

If the roads are brought up to a lesser standard and not adopted then the road would be an asset and dealt with according to the winding up of the Parish's assets and liabilities.

4. Are there any perceived roadblocks preventing a parish council from purchasing the roads from the crown?

It is our understanding that it may be possible for the parish council (if created) to purchase the roads in question from the Official Receiver. If the future parish council were to do so, then it would have the ability to repair them - acting as an individual who owned such roads might do so and relying on the general power of competence.

5. Are there any perceived roadblocks preventing a parish council from undertaking road repairs? As typical parish council responsibilities do not include highway maintenance.

i) A parish council has very limited general highway powers. Its maintenance powers are restricted to footpaths and bridleways, see section 43 of the Highways Act 1980, but only in respect of highways maintainable at public expense. Whilst it has other limited powers under that and other Acts, including under the Parish Councils Act 1957, it is our understanding that none would authorise the works of repair/maintenance required/desired in this instance.

ii) It is no answer to seek to rely upon the general power of competence under the Localism Act 2011, nor the well- being power under the Local Government Act 2000 (which depends on the parish council having a suitably qualified parish clerk). A specific power is required to authorise any council to undertake works on a highway and parish councils do not have them. An “individual” cannot just repair public highways/roads at will and there is a detailed statutory scheme which provides for works to highways.

iii) However, it is our understanding that it may be possible for the parish council (if created) to purchase the roads in question from the Official Receiver. If the future parish council were to do so, then it would have the ability to repair them - acting as an individual who owned such roads might do so and relying on the general power of competence.

iv) However, such a future parish council would at least have to consider recouping its costs from frontagers. (An owner of land or property adjoining a street) Indeed, it is the legal view, it would need at least to consider asking for money in advance of undertaking works

v) The future parish council would have to confirm what obligations there are on frontagers in terms of the up-keep of the roads but the parish council would be under a duty to recover or seek to recover its expenditure in so far as it could pursuant to such obligations.

vi) The general power of competence does not excuse any authority from acting as a public authority when it has the ability to exercise private law rights to recoup expenditure. Whilst it has powers to act without charge – see section 1(4)(b) of the Localism Act 2011, that does not mean it should not consider recouping costs it has the ability to recoup.

vii) That it may be reasonable for any such future parish council not to seek recovery is one possible outcome but the question will need to be considered by them. It cannot simply transfer the burden from frontagers to the whole of the parish without giving proper consideration to alternative steps

6. Are there any other parish councils that have been created to tackle issues with their roads? If so – how did they perform?

No Parish Councils have been established in England or Wales to tackle highways issues before.

7. Why have residents on the crossroads felt they have some sort of immunity from carrying out repairs to their kerbside, when other residents on the estate patch repair and even renew their entire roads?

Unable to comment.

8. What is the reason the crossroads have not been maintained?

The crossroads are not publicly maintainable highway and the owner/residents have not maintained the road.

9. Why can't the crossroads be filled with type1 MOT?

Whoever carries out maintenance on the highway will be responsible for the repair. A repair using unbound materials would only be of a temporary nature.

10. Why should residents who paid for their road to be tarmac have to pay out again for the residents that have not bothered to maintain theirs?

Unable to comment

11. Why are Gypsy site single lane roads maintained by the council yet the council won't maintain the Frost Estate? Do Gypsy sites pay a parish council tax as well to maintain their roads?

If they are publicly maintainable highway then they are repaired in a similar manner to other highway. Some are owned by Housing and maintained as a council asset and rents charged.

12. If there is nothing wrong with my road outside my property why should I have to pay to get a road fixed elsewhere?

The council tax covers a range of services not all used by every resident

13. What will the Parish council do with the land that people have claimed as their own and block paved it? Will speed humps and tarmac not make the estate feel like a retirement park?

The roads will need to be to adoptable standard before any adoption. If adoption is the chosen route for maintenance then any encroachment which prevents reaching that standard would need to be reversed.

The appearance of the estate after specific work and measures is subjective.

14. Will all the works go out for tender?

If Thurrock Council is responsible for carrying out the work then it would need to comply with Council governance regarding placing of contracts. This could be by using contractors currently under contract or placing a separate tender and contract.

15. Were Highways ever consulted on the suitability of the vehicles introduced by the Council, with the wheelie bins, a) as to the impact they would have on the roads as the vehicles used could not be contained within the original design of roads on the Estate. b) If Highways were consulted what were the recommendations? Did the Council ever advise the contractors collecting waste on the road and width restrictions of the Frost Estate in the Tender documents? c) As the condition on some parts of the Estate roads may put the public at risk have the Council a duty to carry out a survey of the Estate and advise options.

a) Not relevant as Frost Estate is not a Thurrock highway asset

b) Not relevant as Frost Estate is not a Thurrock highway asset

c) Waste collection is an in-house service

d) The maintenance of the private street is with the owner or residents. Thurrock is responsible for ensuring that the private street is accessible to the public but not for maintenance.

16. Will the roads be made safe for people on Mobility scooters which they are not now?

The current road width or verges are not conducive to the use of mobility scooters. It would depend upon the specification of the repair upgrade. Additional road width or the provision of a footway would assist.

17. In the meantime can speed limits be imposed as some vehicle are driven far too fast for the state of the roads and create further damage? Also is it possible to have a weight restriction imposed?

With the current uneven road surface it is likely that speeds are below the current speed limit of 30mph.

Frost estate is in the centre of the area weight restriction. However, weight limits do not cover access/loading so heavy vehicles are permitted in restricted areas when serving premises.

18. If the Parish Council is not formed, will TBC adopt the roads and bring them up to highway standard and will the residents have to cover the cost of this?

It is unlikely that Thurrock Council would adopt the roads unless there was a formal request from the majority of residents and the cost would be covered by the adoption process.

a. I wish to know approximately how much this will cost.

The cost for bringing the roads up to adoptable standard is estimated to be at least £4m. The actual costs would be recovered from the frontagers.

b. Will this be more than the amount that the precept would be?

Unable to comment

19. If TBC adopt the roads, will Chamberlain Avenue and part of Windsor (who are objecting to a Parish Council) be allowed to opt out of the TBC adoption of the Frost Estate Roads?

The extent of any adoption would be the area covered by the formal majority request.

20. If Chamberlain Ave and part of Windsor are allowed to opt out of paying the £100 pa what will happen should their roads deteriorate in the future? (x5)

It would depend upon the detail of the mechanism chosen. If they remain unadopted private streets, responsibility for maintenance would remain with the frontagers and the owner of the street.

21. Chamberlain Ave and part of Windsor Ave have been repaired; does this justify the residents of these roads not contributing the £100 pa for the benefit of all on the Frost Estate? (x2)

Unable to comment

22. If TBC are intending to adopt the roads and bring them up to ‘highways standard' what is the timeframe for this?


23. There is no question of doing anything regarding the roads on the Frost Estate, if nothing is done there will be a serious amount of damage done to cars and also could do serious damage to residents if they fall over as a result of pot holes.

The responsibility for the maintenance of private streets lies with frontagers and with the owner of the streets.

24. Are TBC taking into consideration the difficulty that emergency vehicles have on negotiating the roads, especially Giffords Cross Ave / Central Ave crossroads?

Yes, we regularly talk to emergency services representatives.

25. 75% of the residents on the Frost Estate voted for a Parish Council so the roads could be repaired. If Thurrock Council decides not to let this go ahead and someone has a bad accident or there is a fatality due to the state of the roads on the estate, would the council accept responsibility?

Any decisions relating to a possible Parish Council will be based upon a set of considerations wider than just highways maintenance.

26. The question of verges does need to be clarified as this could affect many people's homes as they have spent a lot of money adapting the front of their houses.


27. What happens if Thurrock Council adopts the roads – will I be losing part of my garden?


28. If TBC adopt the roads will residents lose their green verges? (x5)


29. If TC do adopt the roads and we lose our grass verge/frontage will TBC be reimbursing residents for the work they may have paid out for in maintaining the land which is being taken?

The council has no liability with regard to this.

30. What do you intend on doing with the roads they are extremely dangerous and in need of maintenance if the concept of a Parish Council is declined? (x9)

The council continues to monitor the extent of any danger to the public resulting from the condition of the roads. If this was to rise to the extent that intervention under Section 230 of the 1980 Highways Act was required, the council would serve notice to frontagers to make the necessary repairs. If frontagers failed to act, the Council has the authority to intervene to make the necessary repairs and recharge the cost to the frontagers.

31. If the roads are adopted by TBC, will there be yellow lines down one side on order to stop parking on both sides of the road? Without yellow lines on one side car drivers will have to weave in and out of parked vehicles. This would be extremely dangerous for pedestrians and children who could run out between cars. (x2)

Given the width of the road, it is very likely that parking restrictions would be needed. The details of any restrictions would be subject to public consultation prior to implementation.

32. What would the financial cost to house owners be were the Estate to be adopted?

This would depend upon the route to adoption.

33. The ever worsening of the roads means that they must be repaired soon. If the proposal for the formation of a Parish Council to address this issue is rejected, will the Council forcibly adopt the roads?


34. If Thurrock Borough Council do adopt the roads and bring them up to ‘highways' standards, what will be the cost to the resident for every foot of his or hers frontage?

To date, the council has not undertaken the detailed surveys and design work needed to give definitive costing and would only incur the cost of doing so if a formal request was received from the majority of residents, on the understanding that the cost would subsequently be recovered from residents as part of the adoption process . As a ball-park figure, when Lampits Hill Avenue was brought up to adoptable standard in 1982, a typical cost per frontage was around £2,500.

35. If the Parish Council is not allowed to be formed will TBC adopt the roads and bring them up to highways standard and will all residents be forced to cover the cost of this massive activity?


36. If Thurrock Borough Council adopts the roads will Chamberlain Ave and part of Windsor Ave be allowed to opt out? (x3)

This would, to some extent, depend upon the detail of the request that came from residents. To the extent that exclusion proved impractical, it may be possible to allocate costs to specific frontagers based upon how far short the road outside their property was from adoptable standard.

37. Chamberlain Ave and part of Windsor have not been brought up to the adopted standard. Those few residents that do not wish to contribute to the £100p.a, will they expect to be included if at any time in the future, their concrete/tarmac repairs have started to deteriorate? Some of the residents of Lampits Hill Ave object to paying the £100pa (£9 per month). I sympathise with Lampits Hill Ave as they have already paid for their road to be adopted (x2)

The council as Highways Authority will only maintain adopted streets. If certain streets remain private, the responsibility for their maintenance remains with frontagers and the owners of the street.

38. I understand that there were some residents of Chamberlain Ave and part of Windsor who were unwilling to help pay for the formation of the concrete/tarmac strip. Are these possibly the same few people who are resisting paying £100 pa to protect and enhance the whole of the Frost Estate? (x2)

Unable to comment.

39. At the moment the roads are owned by the Crown, will TBC ensure that this remains so if a Parish Council is refused? (x2)

This is a matter for the Crown.

40. Will TBC ensure that speed humps are constructed on Central Ave, Giffords Cross Ave and York Ave if these roads are opened up to connect with other roads which are not at the moment part of the Frost Estate?

Thurrock Council would only have powers to intervene if these roads were adopted as public highway.

41. If the roads are adopted by TBC and thus opened up to Springhouse Rd and Brampton Close, will TBC ensure that York Ave and Central Ave cannot be used as rat runs by constructing speed bumps on these two main roads? (x4)

If a majority of residents were to ask the Council to bring the roads up to adoptable standards and adopt the roads (with associated costs being recharged to residents), the Council would draw up detailed layout design and traffic management proposals and consult with residents as part of the process.

42. If TBC adopt the roads on the Frost Estate will TBC open up the roads to Springhouse Road? (x2)

Not necessarily. This would be subject to detailed design and consultation.

43. If TBC adopt the roads and my section is £10,000 how do I pay for this and over what timeframe?

There are a number of options available which will depend on a number of factors that would need to be agreed when establishing the Parish Council.

44. Due to the delay of forming a Parish Council, will TBC be making emergency repairs to the worst roads on the Frost Estate?

This is subject to ongoing review.

45. I would like to know if a Parish Council is refused, will the Council take full responsibility for any accidents proven to be due to the cracks or holes in the road particularly on the Giffords Cross / Central Ave crossroads?

The primary responsibility for the condition of private streets lies with the frontagers and the owners of the streets.

46. I would like to know who instigated the adoption of Lampits Hill Avenue? I believe this was in 1982.

Unfortunately, we do not hold records of this information.

Parish Council governance

47. It is of concern to me that we are not fully appreciating the total running costs of a parish council. Training, employing a parish clerk, insurance, auditing & general overheads will absorb a fair percentage of the monies collected via precept. In addition, interest that will be accrued on a yearly basis with the proposed loans. Once these are all paid for, how much will actually be left to tackle the repair of the roads themselves? I understand that the cost of a parish clerk will not necessarily be a full time position, but in reality how much is this skilled service going to cost the community per year? I would like feedback from EALC on these questions and not estimations from FERA.

The town or parish council clerk is usually the “proper officer” to the local council parish council. The role of the proper officer is to provide competent legal advice to the council and implement the decisions of the parish council. (which would be a separate legal entity from Thurrock Borough Council) The clerk may also be the Responsible Finance Officer if they are competent and have the appropriate and relevant skills. They are defined by HMRC as a statutory office holder if they fulfil the role of proper officer – all town and parish councils are required to register with HMRC and the clerk cannot be self employed- they must be paid at least minimum wage and usually work part-time with their pay being bench marked against similar parish councils.

48. Will a parish council also be liable for other overheads that are currently covered by Thurrock Council? – for example running and maintaining streetlights.

Generally only lights on adopted highway are maintained by the council although town and parish councils can (and do) own some lights on the highway. Lights on private roads, public areas and unfinished developments are generally owned by the landlord and they remain responsible for the repair and maintenance. If a parish council is created a community governance order will need to be drawn up in discussion with the requisite shadow parish committee which will address a range of matters including the transfer of relevant assets and liabilities to the legally separate parish council. Generally a community governance order is drawn up around September with a shadow parish council in the interim before the first election which would be in May 2016.

49. Why have the committee not set up a go fund me page, they'd of raised the 30k required by now over the last 9 years or so they have been operating?

Cannot comment as this is a matter for and within the knowledge of the committee

50. Will all the councillors be frost estate residents? What happens when they sell up and move, how will they be replaced?

To become a candidate you must

• be at least 18 years old on day of nomination

• be a British citizen, commonwealth citizen or citizen of any other member state of Euro Union

• meet at least one of the following four criteria:

1) Registered as a local government elector for the parish/community in which you wish to stand, OR

2) Have occupied as owner or tenant any land or other premises in the parish community area during the whole of the 12 months before the day of your nomination and the day of election, OR

3) Your main or only place of work during the 12 months prior to the day of your nomination and the day of election has been in the parish / community area, OR

4) Have lived in the parish / community areas or within three miles of it during the whole of the 12 months before the day of your nomination and the day of the election

Therefore the councillors may or may not be Frost Estate residents and they will have to stand for election following the election process.

When a seat becomes vacant there may be an election if after the deadline for withdrawals there is more than one validly nominated candidate. If there is only one candidate validly nominated, that candidate will be declared elected with no election.

51. What is the criteria to become a FERA councillor? Will they be credit checked?

The person who stands for election will need to declare that they are qualified to stand (see Q.23) and not disqualified from standing. The Returning Officer takes the information at face value but it is an offence to provide false information. If you are the subject of a bankruptcy restrictions order or interim order you are disqualified from standing from election. However, every person who wishes to stand for election needs to make sure that they meet the qualifications to stand for election and that they are not disqualified. If in doubt they need to seek INDEPENDENT legal advice. This advice is not given by the council.

52. {My} research also showed, that no parish council takes on ownership, repair, and building of roads, in fact legal advice suggests it is illegal in the true formation of a parish council, will the council clarify the legal situation, in light of the inevitable legal challenges that will follow?

A parish council has very limited general highway powers. Its maintenance powers are restricted to footpaths and bridleways see section 43 of the Highways Act 1980, but only in respect of highways maintainable at public expense. Whilst it has other limited powers under that and other Acts, including under the Parish Councils Act 1957, it is our understanding that none would authorise the works of repair/maintenance required/desired in this instance.

It is no answer to seek to rely upon the general power of competence under the Localism Act 2011, nor the well- being power under the Local Government Act 2000 (which depends on the parish council having a suitably qualified parish clerk)

A specific power is required to authorise any council to undertake works on a highway and parish councils do not have them. An “individual” cannot just repair public highways/roads at will and there is a detailed statutory scheme which provides for works to highways.

However, it is our understanding that it may be possible for the parish council (if created) to purchase the roads in question from the Official Receiver. If the future parish council were to do so, then it would have the ability to repair them - acting as an individual who owned such roads might do so and relying on the general power of competence.

However, such a future parish council would at least have to consider recouping its costs from frontagers. Indeed, it is the legal view that it would need at least to consider asking for money in advance of undertaking works

The future parish council would have to confirm what obligations there are on frontagers in terms of the up-keep of the roads but the parish council would be under a duty to recover or seek to recover its expenditure in so far as it could pursuant to such obligations.

The general power of competence does not excuse any authority from acting as a public authority should when it has the ability to exercise private law rights to recoup expenditure. Whilst it has powers to act without charge – see section 1(4)(b) of the Localism Act 2011, that does not mean it should not consider recouping costs it has the ability to recoup.

That it may be reasonable for any such future parish council not to seek recovery is one possible outcome but the question will need to be considered by them. It cannot simply transfer the burden from frontagers to the whole of the parish without giving proper consideration to alternative steps

53. Will the council confirm that it is aware the proposed parish council want to borrow £100k, to do the roads, which they (FERA) indicated at the community governance review meeting on 2nd December 2014?

The council has no knowledge of this.

54. The first community governance review, stated the setting up of a parish council to do the roads, is not sufficient a reason for forming a parish council, nor is it legal, will the council advise if there has been a law change to alter that fact?

There is only 1 community governance review – there have been a number of reports to Full Council and General Services Committee as the matter progressed within its statutory time frame of 1 year from when the terms of reference for the community governance review were accepted by Thurrock Borough Council

The report to Council quoted legal advice from the National Association of Local Councils (NALC) which was kindly shared with Thurrock Borough Council and it expressed concern that the road issue might dominate any future parish council to the exclusion of other activities and suggested a management company as an alternative option. This was independent legal advice from NALC not Thurrock Council.

When determining what to do on such a review Thurrock Council, pursuant to section 93 of the Local Government Public Involvement & Housing Act 2007, must have regard (i) to the need to secure that community governance within the proposed area under review (a) reflects the identities and interests of the community in that area and (b) is effective and efficient, and (ii) it must take into account what alternative arrangements could be made for the purposes of community representation or community engagement in respect of the area under review. (The range of such “alternative arrangements” is wide, as outlined in the official government Guidance at paragraphs 136-146.)

Thurrock Council must of course also have regard to the consultation responses etc. but these three matters provide useful criteria against which to assess any review, (see the Guidance at paragraphs 52 and 136)

For example, if Thurrock Council considered that the proposal did not reflect the interests of the community then it would probably be unlikely to accede to a request to parish an area.

Application of these criteria raises issues of judgment, not law. These are matters for the Authority and what follows is hopefully of assistance but it is no more than that.

In this case there are apparently divisions within the community as to where its interests lie. Whilst no proposal is likely to be universally popular and the existence of opposition is no embargo to “parishing” an area, it is a matter of judgment as to whether this proposal is in the interests of the “community in that area”.

It is noted that the focus is unsurprisingly, directly at least, not on the need to secure good roads but is on the need to secure community governance which fulfils the relevant criteria. However, there is a clear link between the two. The Guidance makes this clear. See for example paragraph 56, where it states that parish councils can contribute to the creation of successful communities in a number of ways relating to the physical environment.

Again, just because the primary motivation is to improve bad roads does not prevent the proposal being properly “effective and efficient”. The Guidance suggests that this is to be judged in the context of ability to deliver quality services economically and efficiently and as well giving users a voice, see paragraph 62.

A judgment has to be made as to whether the proposal which has one, or perhaps two principal aims (security being the other), is effective and efficient. Just because the roads are in a poor state of repair is not necessarily indicative of ineffective or inefficient community governance or that there might not be other more effective and efficient ways of achieving the same end, but it may do so. Further, addressing poor roads at a parish level may not be considered efficient if there are other routes by which the same outcome could be realistically achieved.

Acquiring land will only be the first hurdle in terms of remedying the poor state of the roads. Proper consideration will have to be given to the standard of repair, insurance and identification of the contractor to undertake the work and management and supervision of any contracts.

Regard will also have to be given to the lack of activity in carrying out the works at present and alternative options in that regard – and what alternative arrangements could produce the same result. A residents'/frontagers association may for example provide a solution. A parish council is in no better position to enforce frontagers' obligations than such an organisation. It may be adoption is the answer, although that may not be popular with frontagers given the cost and potential other implications.

Thurrock Council will have regard, in accordance with government guidance to all aspects of community governance so a balanced view is taken. It is a matter of judgment whether in this instance there will be a benefit which goes beyond fixing the roads and even if not, whether fixing the roads is sufficient. The NALC advice quoted in the reports makes this point also – therefore the legal advice has not changed throughout this process.

55. Will the council give an unbiased view of the possible ramifications of setting up a parish council, we need all the pros and cons set out in a fully transparent form?

There are around 9,000 local councils in England and Wales covering approximately 16 million people - their activities are highly valued and seen as representing local communities, delivering services and improving the quality of life and community well-being. As seen above they have very limited highways powers and generally maintain instead a range of important local services such as allotments, bridleways, shelters, car parks, open spaces, community safety and crime reduction, footpaths and many others.

A community governance review having been triggered by a requisite local petition Thurrock Council is obliged to carry out such a review within 12 months of accepting the terms of the review and has described in detail the nature of parish councils in its consultations and public reports

As stated above the role of Thurrock Council when determining what to do on such a review Thurrock Council, pursuant to section 93 of the Local Government Public Involvement & Housing Act 2007, must have regard (i) to the need to secure that community governance within the proposed area under review (a) reflects the identities and interests of the community in that area and (b) is effective and efficient, and (ii) it must take into account what alternative arrangements could be made for the purposes of community representation or community engagement in respect of the area under review. (The range of such “alternative arrangements” is wide, as outlined in the official government Guidance at paragraphs 136-146.)

Thurrock Council must of course also have regard to the consultation responses etc. but these three matters provide useful criteria against which to assess any review.

Going forward if a parish council is created it will be a separate legal entity / local council and not subject to the control of Thurrock Council. Any time spent preparing for such an important role prior to any elections in May 2016 is therefore time well spent and may contribute to a successful local council – should one be created.

56. Has the council been informed by FERA what its visions for the estate are, because all items from 2 to 18 are not applicable to the estate and has misled residents?

As indicated in the independent legal advice from NALC – there was some concern from them that the road issue could dominate the operation of any future parish council to the exclusion of the wide role of such councils. Thurrock Council has carried out a consultation in line with government guidance explaining the nature, opportunities and role of parish councils and sought residents responses as to their interests / comments

57. At the meeting in council chambers on the 25th March, the papers bundle section appendix 3, from pages 141 through to 147, showed the prime concern to be the roads, will the council explain that road construction and repair is not in the remit of a parish council?

A parish council has very limited general highway powers. Its maintenance powers are restricted to footpaths and bridleway, see section 43 of the Highways Act 1980, but only in respect of highways maintainable at public expense. Whilst it has other limited powers under that and other Acts, including under the Parish Councils Act 1957, it is our understanding that none would authorise the works of repair/maintenance required/desired in this instance.

It is no answer to seek to rely upon the general power of competence under the Localism Act 2011, nor the well-being power under the Local Government Act 2000 (which depends on the parish council having a suitably qualified parish clerk)

A specific power is required to authorise any council to undertake works on a highway and parish councils do not have them. An “individual” cannot just repair public highways/roads at will and there is a detailed statutory scheme which provides for works to highways.

However, it is our understanding that it may be possible for the parish council (if created) to purchase the roads in question from the Official Receiver. If the future parish council were to do so, then it would have the ability to repair them - acting as an individual who owned such roads might do so and relying on the general power of competence.

However, such a future parish council would at least have to consider recouping its costs from frontagers. Indeed, it is the legal view that it would need at least to consider asking for money in advance of undertaking works.

The future parish council would have to confirm what obligations there are on frontagers in terms of the up-keep of the roads but the parish council would be under a duty to recover or seek to recover its expenditure in so far as it could pursuant to such obligations.

The general power of competence does not excuse any authority from acting as a public authority should when it has the ability to exercise private law rights to recoup expenditure. Whilst it has powers to act without charge – see section 1(4)(b) of the Localism Act 2011, that does not mean it should not consider recouping costs it has the ability to recoup.

That it may be reasonable for any such future parish council not to seek recovery is one possible outcome but the question will need to be considered by them. It cannot simply transfer the burden from frontagers to the whole of the parish without giving proper consideration to alternative steps.

58. Due to certain aged residents being scared silly by the FERA group, that they could face huge legal claims and costs if anyone hurt themselves, or damaged their vehicles, on the road outside their property, will the council clarify the legal situation for residents, and will also show a precedent where a resident has been prosecuted for injury on a road outside their property?

This is outside the remit of Thurrock Council as the roads concerned are not adopted highways nor owned by the authority and advice would need to be sought by FERA as to the source and nature of their legal advice.

However the ownership of the roads is currently held by the Official Receiver on the basis that all liabilities are disclaimed by such ownership.

59. What are the obligations of parish councillors, can they be held legally responsible for their decisions, and or neglect?

A local council is a corporate body with perpetual succession and a name. A parish council's lawful acts, assets and liabilities are its own and not those of its councillors or any other council. Parish councillors are normally liable only if they have not acted in good faith.

60. What is the situation with residents on Lampits Hill Avenue? Their road is council adopted, and subject to all borough council obligations regarding road repairs and maintenance, including verges and trees, there is nothing a parish can offer them, that the council or themselves cannot do.

As indicated above the role of Thurrock Council when determining what to do on such a review Thurrock Council, pursuant to section 93 of the Local Government Public Involvement & Housing Act 2007, must have regard (i) to the need to secure that community governance within the proposed area under review (a) reflects the identities and interests of the community in that area and (b) is effective and efficient, and (ii) it must take into account what alternative arrangements could be made for the purposes of community representation or community engagement in respect of the area under review. (The range of such “alternative arrangements” is wide, as outlined in the official government Guidance at paragraphs 136-146.)

Thurrock Council must of course also have regard to the consultation responses etc. but these three matters provide useful criteria against which to assess any review.

61. Just what does a parish council control?

As indicated above there are around 9,000 local councils in England and Wales covering approximately 16 million people – each local local council may have different priorities of needs but the following are all potentially under the remit of local councils:

• Allotments

• Burial Grounds, Cemeteries, Churchyards and Crematoria

• Bus Shelters

• Bye-laws – the power to make bye-laws concerning: baths and washhouses (swimming pools), cycle parks, mortuaries and pleasure grounds

• Clocks – public clocks can be provided and must be maintained

• Community Centres, Conference Centres, Halls, Public Buildings

• Drainage – of ditches and ponds

• Entertainment and the Arts

• Footpaths

• General Spending – parish councils can spend a limited amount of money on anything they deem of benefit to the community that is not covered by the other specific responsibilities described in this list

• Gifts – parish councils may accept gifts

• Highways – lighting, parking places, right to enter into discussions about new roads and road widening, consent of parish council required for diversion or discontinuation of highway, traffic signs and other notices, tree planting and verge maintenance

• Land – acquisition and sale of

• Legal proceedings – power to prosecute and defend any legal proceedings in the interests of the community, power to take part in any public enquiry

• Litter - provision of litter-bins and support for any anti-litter campaigns

• Planning – parish councils must be notified of, and display for residents, any planning applications for the area. Any comments submitted to the planning authority by the parish council must be taken into account

• Postal and Telecommunication Facilities – power to pay a public telecommunications operator any loss sustained in providing services in that area

• Public conveniences – provision and maintenance of public toilets

• Recreation – provision of recreation grounds, public walkways, pleasure grounds, open spaces, village greens, gymnasiums, playing fields, holiday camps and boating ponds

• Rights of Way – footpath and bridleway maintenance

• Seats (public)

• Signs – danger signs, place names and bus stops signs

• Tourism – financial contributions to any local tourist organisations allowed

• Traffic Calming

• War Memorials

• Water Supply – power to utilise stream, well or spring water and to provide facilities for general use

62. Lampits Hill Avenue has been adopted by the council and Chamberlain Avenue has been repaired by the residents “they do not use the other roads on the estate “Note the punctuation marks. They should not be allowed to dictate to the council about how the roads are managed.

A parish council, if created would be a separate legal entity from Thurrock Council and be required to discharge its responsibilities subject to good governance, probity and public law.

63. A Parish Council is not just for repair of our dangerous road but to have a cohesive neighbourhood. What objections do the dissenters have? (x5)

As part of the Community Governance Review regard will also have to be given to the lack of activity in carrying out the works at present and alternative options in that regard – and what alternative arrangements could produce the same result. A residents'/frontagers association may for example provide a solution. A parish council is in no better position to enforce frontagers' obligations than such an organisation. It may be adoption is the answer, although that may not be popular with frontagers given the cost and potential other implications.

Thurrock Council will have regard, in accordance with government guidance to all aspects of community governance so a balanced view is taken – for direct options from Thurrock Council see the answers to the Highway Section.

64. I have lived on the Frost Estate since 1968 – 47 years and bought my property because of the uniqueness of the estate. At the time of my purchase when I was 22 years old, I was informed that should the roads be adopted by the Council I would have to pay. The time has now come when it is urgent that there should be changes to the roads. Do TBC agree that if a Parish Council is formed then this will be a very positive step?

Unable to comment

Financial Matters relating to A Parish Council

65. I would like to have confirmation – will the precept for the Frost Estate be a standard cost for every household or will it (like every other parish council) be linked to the council tax banding of a property?

The precept would be linked to the council tax banding of the property and whether there are any discounts – such as for single persons or the Local Council Tax Scheme.

66. There is no confirmed yearly precept costs at this time. What is preventing a Parish Council (once elected) setting this to £300 as an example?

There is no limit to the precept and, therefore, the council tax charge to each property.

67. How will the parish tax benefit me when I already pay road tax and council tax?

It is up to the elected councillors to determine what additional services, such as road repairs etc, that they would want to provide over and above those services already provided by other bodies.

68. How will the committee decide who gets a discount and who doesn't when they have renewed their road?

The committee cannot decide this. The precept is spread across the whole of the parish on a council tax property basis.

69. Will OAP's single mums, people on benefit also receive discounted parish council tax? How will this criteria be set? If you have maintained your road, will you get a discount?

The parish council tax is governed by the same legislation as the Thurrock Council council tax is. The award of a discount is set out in legislation.

70. Why should I pay higher council tax when I rent my property? Should this not be covered by the landlord?

Council tax is based on the property and does not consider ownership, just where the liability to pay lies. This would need to be a discussion between the tenant and the landlord

71. What happens if the parish council goes into debt? What happens when a councillor makes a bad decision?

The parish council is able to borrow funds for specific projects in its area and, as such, will be in debt. The cost of this debt needs to be recovered through the precept to all properties within the parish or through charges made by the parish council directly to specific properties. This latter route obviously needs the agreement of those specific property owners whereas the precept just needs the approval of the parish council.

A local council is a corporate body with perpetual succession and a name. A parish council's lawful acts, assets and liabilities are its own and not those of its councillors or any other council. Parish councillors are normally liable only if they have not acted in good faith. A parish council cannot go bankrupt – generally it can be determined by a further Community Governance Review and if so terminated its relevant assets and liabilities transfer back to the Principal Authority

72. Having researched hundreds of parish councils, I find all of them base their precept on council tax bands, the proposed precept by FERA is based on a flat £100 charge for all households, which is contrary to the parish council remit, can it be challenged, and is it legal?

Please see financial slides in the 15th June presentation

73. The council is aware, that residents on certain roads, have invested large sums of money for repairs and construction of their roads, in some cases their whole savings, will the council seek to exclude them from any precept demand?

Please see financial slides in the 15th June presentation

74. The proposed £100 precept, (which let us not kid ourselves) is solely for road repairs, will the council tell residents that all repairs will have to be undertaken by recognised contractors and done to council standards, failing to do so will negate any insurance claims?

That will be a question for any future parish council should one be created – these are private streets and not the responsibility of the Highway Authority

75. Will the council advise residents, that parish councils are not under the same government restraints that borough councils are, in that they can set a precept at any level they choose, there is no limit?

For a parish of this size there is currently no limit to the precept or annual increases

76. What guarantee is there that the Frost Estate rate will not increase to much higher levels over the coming years Is the rate per person or per property and what interest rate will be charged on the loans against the rate?

The increase is in the hands of the parish council that is accountable to the residents. Any loan taken out by the parish council is likely to be through the Public Works Loan Board. Currently, a 20 year loan attracts a rate of between 3 and 3.5% depending on the nature of the loan and repayment terms.

77. If a person is on benefits and the council pay the council tax will the council pay the Frost Estate increased tax?

Please see financial slides in the 15th June presentation.

78. If a property is sold is the new owner legally bound to pay the Frost Estates Rate?

Yes.

79. Roads will need to be maintained and the utility companies will create damage how will this be dealt with?

If the roads are purchased by the parish council, their maintenance remains the responsibility of the parish council and of frontagers. Utility companies have a responsibility to reinstate roads which they dig up to carry out necessary works.

80. Does street lighting come under the control the parish council or Thurrock Council and how is this financed bearing in mind we already pay council tax?

Street lighting is owned, maintained and operated by Thurrock Council. There are no proposals that this arrangement should change.

81. If roads are self-maintained what is the insurance situation re personal injuries and vehicle damage?

The parish council will have to make adequate insurance arrangements and the cost of this will have to be built into the precept.

82. If Chamberlain Avenue and part of Windsor are allowed to opt out of paying £100 per annum: What will happen should their roads deteriorate in the future? Roads? (x3)

If these properties are within the parish and the roads are paid through a loan included within the precept, these roads will not be able to opt out of the precept. If this has happened for some reason, I would assume that the parish will need to precept for ongoing maintenance that will be parish wide and not just road specific. As such, the costs of future maintenance would be shared across the parish.

83. The roads have to be repaired to keep the estate viable long term. If not by the vehicle of Parish council how else can this be achieved and at what cost to the residents? (under roads?)

Residents could maintain the roads by collective private arrangement or by forming a management company. Alternatively they could request that Thurrock Council bring the roads up to adoptable standard and adopt the roads. The total cost of bringing the roads up to adoptable standards is unlikely to be less than £4million, and this would need to be borne by residents.

84. What would be achieved if there was a £100 p.a. precept?

That is a question for the future parish council should one be created depending on the relevant quotes obtained from contractors / insurers – but the parish council cannot just ignore the obligations of the frontagers and seek to transfer the cost of repairs to council tax payers without considering the enforcement of the frontagers obligations.

85. Will there be some form of hardship fund for those who feel they cannot afford the proposed guide figure of £9 per month? Could provision be made for the total sum plus interest to be deducted from the future sale of a property? (x3)

This is not a legal option where the funding is raised through council tax.

86. Will the cost to each home owner be considerably more than the cost that the Parish Council has proposed?

That will depend on the decisions of the future parish council should one be created – however the parish council cannot transfer the obligations of the frontagers to maintain the private street to council tax payers without first considering the recovery of the cost from the frontagers.

FERA Issues

87. At this time no meeting minutes have been available to those outside of the committee. Is it not a reasonable request that FERA meeting minutes are published to residents?

88. Committee meetings are not advertised. Is it not a reasonable request that FERA publish meeting dates and allow residents to attend if they wish?

89. Why has the committee not felt it necessary to inform the freeholders who rent their properties to tenants? Why has the committee decided the changes affecting the freeholder's property should be decided by tenants and not the owners?

90. Why do the committee not advertise their meetings or publish their minutes? Most of the FER have never seen them? It's only now that people are speaking up and asking questions?

91. Are all committee members YES VOTERS? Why has there been no representation for NO Voters?

92. Why have the committee not arranged Estate Days where the FER come together to carry out repairs to the roads where possible as preventative maintenance?

93. Why is FERA still discussing other options after residents voted for a Parish Council?

94. What has FERA done to ensure representation from all areas of the estate?

Planning Issues

95. If the proposal is granted will we be able to have a say in any alterations/extensions to properties on the Estate being carried out under "permitted development", for example requesting the proposed alterations to be kept within keeping of the surrounding properties?

Permitted Development Rights are derived from a general planning permission granted by Parliament, not the Local Authority. The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order (‘GPDO') makes allowances for certain types of development, notably for extensions and alterations to residential properties.

Parish council status would not naturally affect the provisions of the GPDO, however should the area be designated as a conservation area permitted development rights would become more restricted [reference to question 100]

96. Will the council indicate any position it may or will take, on the construction of estate roads, and will it indicate if any planning rules will apply.

Thurrock Council as Local Highway Authority is bound by the 1980 Highways Act and for adherence to national standards for adopted highways. Any future parish council which chooses to purchase private roads from the Crown will have the rights and responsibilities of any owner of a private street.

97. Will having a parish council allow them to affect planning permission on the estate?

Parish councils would have the ability to comment on planning applications in the same way as other consolidated bodies.

98. Is it possible that the Estate could be sold to a private enterprise and, if so, what would be the ramifications of this?

The Official Receiver is prepared to sell the private roads for around £3,000 it is unlikely that anyone other than a resident association or management company (to maintain the roads) would be interested in purchasing.

99. If the Estate were sold or adopted, would Central Ave and York Ave be opened up, thus encouraging it to become a rat run in the light of a new development in the area?

Any potential changes to the existing road layout would need to be consulted on prior to implementation. Residents would have the opportunity to have their say.

100. As a predominantly bungalow estate built in the 1930s would it be possible for the Frost Estate to be designated as a conservation area? (x2)

Section 69 of the Planning (Listed Building and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 defines conservation areas as ‘areas of special architectural or historic interest, the character or appearance of which it is desirable to preserve or enhance' and local planning authorities have the statutory duty to identify and designate such areas.

Through the preparation of the new Local Plan, the council will be consulting widely on a number of planning matters, including the designation of land within the borough; it is through this process that estates previously not designated as conservation areas could become designated as such.

Community Governance Review

101. How has it been a fair voting system when for example one property with a big family may get 8 votes and the next door property with one elderly OAP or single mum only gets 1 vote? Can the committee evidence how exactly that is a balanced voting system? Should it not be 1 vote per property and the freeholder informed? It's discrimination against 1 person households!

The validity of the petition, terms of reference and consultation was based on the electoral register and it was sent to each elector and not per household. In addition each person (if eligible) is entitled to vote and a household may contain persons with different views on forming a parish council. We should not disenfranchise any person from their right to an opinion.

As the outcome of questionnaires sent to residents have shown that 70% of the residents who responded are keen for there to be a Parish Council, have the volunteers carried this out in a Democratic manner and have the volunteers followed the rules set out by Thurrock Borough Council?

Due to a few people who are querying this, I would like The Meeting to confirm that the volunteers did carry this out in the correct manner. X 2

Thurrock Council delivered questionnaires by hand and these were delivered by staff employed to support the delivery of election information. Any volunteer support would have been linked to FERA and they should respond to this point as they were not commissioned by Thurrock Council.

102. Two or three very vocal residents are complaining that they were not given any information. Were FERA given the full electoral roll to enable them to reach all the registered residents on the Frost Estate? (x3)


103. There are a very few vociferous residents who are spreading false information on social media and newspaper articles that the volunteers on FERA are dictators and there has also been mentioned that are being paid. Will TBC be willing to dispel these completely unfounded accusations? (x4)

FERA should respond to this point as they were not commissioned by Thurrock Council.

104. I would like to know if there are any residents who are objecting to a parish council but not actually on the electoral roll for the Frost Estate?


Persons from outside the Frost Estate could take part on the on-line voting. However they had to indicate whether they were a resident or not, and provide their address. Responses were analysed and we can confirm that on the first stage of consultation four people didn't provide an address, so they could have been from outside the area. However, the overall result would be the same as two voted ‘yes' and two voted ‘no'. On the second stage of consultation 4 people from outside the Frost Estate responded to say ‘yes' and no-one from outside the Frost Estate said ‘no'.

Any person, in a rented property or otherwise, could move house. The person(s) renting are often the person(s) responsible for council tax payments during the rental period.

105. Can TBC ensure the residents of the Frost Estate that only those residents on the Electoral Roll of the Frost Estate are able to voice their opinion on the formation of a Parish Council? (x2)




106. Can TBC tell me if they are checking that those against a Parish Council are actually on the Electoral Roll for the Frost Estate?




107. Why was the questionnaire sent to every person and not per household? Residents in rented property may have voted YES, but then move on. The vote should have been given to the property owner.




108. With reference to TBC questionnaire “Do you want a Parish Council”, 299 respondents out of 715 questionnaires given out stated a preference for a PC. How many of the 299 are council tax payers? How many of the 715 are council tax payers? How many households were there in relation to the 299 respondents?

The questionnaires were distributed to electors and we cannot check against council tax records.

109. Will the negative views of any person who does not actually reside on the Frost Estate have any influence on TBC? (x2)

Part of the consultation process may involve stakeholders in surrounding areas but the council will exercise its judgement balancing all the factors looking at social cohesion and efficient discharge of local governance as well as alternative options.

110. Will TBC be influenced by the very few negative people who are resisting paying just £100 to protect and enhance the whole of the Frost Estate?

The council is required to taking to account the factors outlined above.

111. Will Thurrock Borough Council ensure that the will of the majority (70%) of the population of the Frost Estate is carried out without any further delay?

The council will have regard to the outcome of the consultations in line with the guidance for community governance reviews to reach an overall judgement on social cohesion and the efficient discharge of local governance.

112. More pressure should be put on Thurrock Council to get the establishment of a Parish Council as this would certainly benefit all residents on the Frost Estate to ensure all issues relating to it would be addressed promptly.

Thurrock Council is following the statutory timeframe and government guidance on such community governance reviews.

113. What alternatives are the ‘no' voters proposing?

Please refer to the audio recording of the public meeting on 15th June where this was discussed; published here: www.thurrock.gov.uk/set-up-town-or-parish-council/current-reviews

114. Has the Council been influenced by the vociferous anti brigade who seem to be a small minority in numerical terms but will bully their unconstructive points to the fore? (x6)

Council has yet to make a decision and held a public meeting to help ensure all views were heard.

115. As you know 70% of residents who responded wished for the Parish Council. This is surely enough to say what the people of the Frost Estate want. How is it possible for our wishes to be overruled? (x4)


116. As the majority of residents on the Frost Estate have already voted to form a Parish Council is it democratic for the very few who are against to try to influence TBC to disregard the residents' wishes? (x5)


117. We seem to have a few residents who are against this proposal of a Parish Council. Would the negative remark of a few influence the council, although we seem to have a majority who are for it. What reason would Thurrock Council have to reject a proposal which is for the good of residents and pedestrians?


118. Will TBC make it very clear that the volunteers who form FERA have democratically followed the rules spelt out to them by TBC in order to find out the views of the residents?

FERA should respond to this point as they are not commissioned by Thurrock Council.

http://www.thurrock.gov.uk/set-up-town-or-parish-council/current-reviews

119. FERA guided by Parliamentary MP and a local Councillor have followed the democratic process outlined by TBC and at all stages have achieved a majority YES vote for a parish council. Why are two or three residents stating that they have not received any information? The formation of a voluntary committee was from the public meeting approximately 3 years ago. Questionnaires that were sent out by TBC to all registered on the electoral roll. Volunteers physically called on all properties (x3).


120. If the majority of residents down a certain road which has already been repaired (e.g. Lampits Hill Ave) vote against the Parish Council – could their road be exempt and therefore also exempt from the other positive neighbourhood and community involvement that the parish council proposes? Was it the case that the majority of the people anti the PC lived down the already repaired roads?

Response yet to be received.

121. Why have you allowed questions and comments written by people NOT resident on the estate to influence you?

The council will make its judgement on the range of factors identified in the government's guidance and outlined above.

Alternatives

122. A few people have suggested collecting money (Approx £27.00) from every one of the 387 households and then carrying out some repairs themselves. I would like to know what response they have had from their fellow residents.

This was raised and discussed by the community at the public meeting on 15th June where views were expressed.

123. What would the cost be to residents if a Private Company was able to purchase the Frost Estate Roads and have no control over the outcome of repairs or changes to the roads? And what is the cost to residents? (x5)

A resident's association could buy the private roads from the Official Receiver and operate as a management company – a parish council would not have any more rights and would be in a similar position

124. I would like TBC at the meeting 15 June to let the public know that if the roads are brought by a private company then we residents will have no control over them and may even be charged to drive on the roads. Will TBC mention this very important remark at the meeting on the 15th June? (x2)

This was indeed raised at the meeting on 15th June.

125. As there are only a small minority of residents who do not wish for there to be a PC and they do not wish to contribute £100pa – could the small minority or TBC tell me what the alternative is?

These alternatives were raised and discussed at the public meeting on 15th June and one is included in question 125 above.

Miscellaneous

126. Can the Council find the original 1920's Frost Estate files for the public to view?

We are not able to provide these documents.

127. How much has it cost to have James Whale chair this meeting?

£500.

128. I would like to know if there are any residents who are objecting to a Parish Council but not actually on the Electoral Role for the Frost Estate?

I have not been provided with a list of objectors but the review was carried out in two stages as per the terms of reference.

Stage one consisted of consultation with local government electors in the area identified with the petition. Therefore if they were not on the electoral register they would not have been contacted.

Stage two involved residents and other bodies being given the opportunity to comment on the draft proposals. Residents from outside of the area will also have had the opportunity to comment generally through the consultation exercise available online via the council's website.

129. Will TBC attempt to dispel some of the malicious rumours that have been put on social media and in the Thurrock Gazette that some volunteers are being paid?

Any questions relating to volunteers working on behalf of FERA are not within the council's remit as FERA is not commissioned by Thurrock Council.

130. As the outcome of the questionnaires sent out to residents have shown that 70% of the residents who responded are keen for there to be a Parish Council, have the volunteers followed the rules set out by TBC? (x2)

The 2 stage consultation process was run by Thurrock Council as part of the review and was in line with government guidance.

131. I would like to know if TBC made it clear that the volunteers who have spent their time and energy to find out the views of the residents of the Frost Estate have carried this out in a democratic manner and followed the rules set out by TBC? (x3)

Any questions relating to volunteers working on behalf of FERA are not within the council's remit as FERA is not commissioned by Thurrock Council.

132. I would like to ask TBC this question of the residents who do not wish to have a Parish Council and equally of TBC: For those residents who enjoy living on this very unique estate but object to paying £100 pa would it be less selfish of them to think of the many elderly people on this estate who need to either walk using a walking stick / frame or mobility vehicle to access the town centre without fear of injuring or falling on uneven roads? (x3)

The use of the precept to charge council tax payer would first be subject to the parish council seeking to recover the cost of road repairs against the relevant frontagers.

133. Have those who object to the formation of a Parish Council given any thought to those of the next generation who will so enjoy the uniqueness of this estate if it is maintained?

The use of the precept to charge council tax payer would first be subject to the parish council seeking to recover the cost of road repairs against the relevant frontagers.

thurrock council - advance questions for frost estate meeting...advance questions for frost estate...

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