.... . - ~ ,--

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B' "()~~" : --

P{ . " l /j r~ : ...--.-_ .........

l'LLA : --

l.J • \

~ II.. 4 :: 3/..78 •

, , " . " t :~ T:.: 1""1 TON D.l' t~:i;'; T 'l , nsv " 1 ~-........ -- --_ .. -._----------_.- - .

.. ~----.~~----~--~--'~~----~----------~----~

(,O·;-';:: . .i~V:t;N~ 0,: ;;c !J~Tr)l~ ?(l) (b) or J\c'r HO . [33/1' 6/ .

110 . 1 : ;;0 ~ lH 11':.: Y

NO . ? : : io·r Gi.J IL~Y

',nt . D. ~'l 'Ot.L' '; i!l t . :i . " fTC !~.:i'n

, .. ~~ ,, )"l~ .. ~ .. .. t ~ ---------

•

_ . - 000 ---

.,

geototiOl'leer te Johtlm10 burr: en verbondo nan 10 voili ~l i

01i01e? -- Dis Itorre { ja Edelncbor •

-

Is dit reF.; op d1e 26ate d eptember 1 t77 hct u d10 bC!'1ul i '0

nou voor 10 Hof 1 aanh udlne nan etrof? --- L j."orre ~ jn.

et u u elf a n hullo voor c tel? --- E{alacb r 8<} t

m oelf nun boida be kuldlec:ieo 1dontlflAeer.

'~'nt vm hulJe toe. and? -- J ulle ~ n')rm.nul . 0"1 (\ COX"

en by hulle v;)lle l1onit1c\';e.

Hot t hulle r:ewaa.raku 1nr.ovol "'e rer,t r.~re 10? --- .. i

korrok j Eu lorb ro.

Bulle het d urn In rapnort C".n

As Cev l~ v 'n die rEL ort hot u hulle ('.eneom \v ir ' rnC'toe':'

Fk het hullo t.nn Speurder-f'oreant Cr( e'\ Speurder-fl (wnt

.1a.rnlluch oorhnn.t 1p. on hulle verooe om n rl1 IJf. r]( ror'

~. ;pourd r- orn t '1? --- Morraluch.

l:Q£.1 . <.. rraluc 1? --- J 0. d 1 , rroluch 0 f' !lourd r-( r m t ('r ::

rrQE: ('roy? --- ere Etlelvr,b£l.re. ullc opdrB f ~oe om oil0

beo:ul t11,d:J 1 r n die Landdrosho f to brlnp. d r hul oito

ber,crl ) \'J'"' om' n he nt niA voor • n Land roo af to 1 •

"0 t jy hulle toe nle weer ~o ien voor hulle t~!1 f? ' Ol:f')'Tl

het van d ic I.(1 ddror'\ ni ,,? - Lk het t J Ie ni .... ,~er I 'e . n voor

hull tcru~ .( com hct nip EdeleebnT'c .

I:nicc nt ['di r" vnn u n d rhanllclln net lie bo~ :u dip co

. '"

-2-

wat die bsskul irtdeo Hun

u eemaalt het hoe het hulle dlt aan u pem ok? --- Vrv ..... il1ir'!li t

Edelagbare.

'as die beekuldlgdes kooperatlef?

--- Ja Edel ag Are .

Het hullo SEUil'l1 t~ewo r "1

eeen moeillkheid

Geen ins nie Et elagbore .

at hulle eni .~e kla~tcs ann U oorgedra? --- Geen Edelo.gbnre.

GEEN VE ii.UE!m ONDEiiVHAG lNG UBUR AANKIJ I\r:n .

KHUIS- O :DERVHAGTNG litTR VE HDfnFHNG I

befJkuldlCde

nOTn.rncr eon in die eerate instoneie geniol? --- Toe hy na my

kantoor toe eebring in Edelngbare.

iie het hom ebring? --- Ek dink A.O. Venter van Ruatcn­

ber Ve111 .. ,heldetek Edela b .re, von hom ontvanth

'as dt t die eer te k eor dot boskultlic,de

. was d1 t in u kamer of Vlaar? --- In my kantoor Edelagb ~ re.

In Wilt ter verdiepine? --- Dis op die tiende VOI'( 10 ine .

John Voreter Square? --- Ja Edelagbure .

Is u or WOG u deatyde onder die

-- Dis korr k ja Etlo1aabore.

!!QE s --- Kapte in Crol1wrirht.

Kaptein Cronwrirht V::Q hy in bevel

Nee Ed('ler,b ~\re hy i9 die Stafoftisier van die Bevelvoorder

V{ n rlie On~oraoek Afdelln~ vnn die Vel11~he1d9t •

HO}'s Kaptein Cron"? --- C'rOfl'''rip,ht. -..!J2i. t Crl)nwrieht? --- .10 Eflela.Bbc 1'0. fly's die Stafoff i r i e I'.

F.dc Ifl t~b~,re c. is Cror wrii!ht. r on I ttl ink wrirht '? --- j) ir-l

ko r reJr . di F1 ko r rek .

Nou boskuldi rc e l " a1

U lJorh .. ,n,a" w . h l"J ; u eweet V"(l .. rvf'l donn h , T {"ek "1 I f' t ? --- Ju.

11

• I

- J-

ek hflt Poe ,oet wanI' die boekul(li ~dee vnndaen kOHl ErJelc.lt;br. e.

ooropronklil~ v on Zeenw?

--- Die korrek Ed elur,b ere .

En 'Neat u o f voord t of nudnt U In .. t die bo :;kuldir, a

nomme r eon ,epract het

Nee Ede laebare dis onvroor. Ek 1a die ondereoekbeampte -in •

die eaak revees en 13k het met <lie beekulilrrdo r,edeel .

'Hlr hoa ran u B~ dio onwaar.

-- Dit nnl

Ad ju(]un t-off iaier Venter .an s EdeIap,bcre .

oer a n a ., nr . Cronwriehtl1cneem? - - Ek plo nie Edeln bur •

Gl o nie ma r u kan

indion d i e beskul iCdes ne. hom - n offieier toe BOU ~oneem hot ,

sou ok nu ~joor Oliviar wie d1e bevelvoerder Wllr; ( OU d io be-

okult1ip,deo na hO!ll toe r,eneem e\ oeo hot F:d ela~bDre , eIt J.r:ln nie

~ l~n hookom tulle nEt ~aptein Cronwrieht sou gonoem gewee. · het

nia .

Dit ia vir u buitenl1 woon r owees? - - - , it ou b litenrcf'" () I

~m\lees hot ja.

Nee Edelugb f.l re .

Dood norm'Aru? - -- 00 nonne 1 .

Dan £'ov. r U on thou Adjudant Offio1er ,'at het u e~?--

Venter.

Venter von =iuat nber hrt hom no u kt'ntoor toe (' br'n ,? - -

Ja Edelagbere .

Van ·r (lie {lila? - - - lee , nee ek ~1 0 nie hulle WH:1 ttl i 1

die De l l e ':~C\""eoF vonr l1ullp by my n ]{ OM r t ::lic .

4/ •••

-4-

r et ander woorde oooa u veretaan het hulle kom dunr von

--- N 1Y toe jo.

En het 'nr. Venter vir u

Nee Edelagbare.

Glad n i e ? --- Glad nie.

d1t ou nie •

onbehoorlik of b ti tenc ewoon ('fa yeaR indian tty dft wel ,sod oen

het? --- . ee d i t DOU nie .

- Die dokumante en v prklnrings o p 'n l a.t e ra stadium varwf

Zeerust ontvang Edol a b9re.

ontven het ,

het dit

verklaring v anaf beskuld igde nommar een in ,es.l.ult? ee .

Het jy no01t so ' n verlclarinB ee f' ien nie? -- Geen

verklaring gehnd v an die beokuldicde nie Edelacbare .

(Jeen afskrlf v an • n vcr'klaring of getik of geakryf nie?

Edel agbare nl 1'o.t ek op 'n l utere stadium v an Zeerllst ont­

v ang wac , was die verklar1ng von die Polisieberun te wat hulle

orroatoer hot, \HillOok I n kaart wet op 'n 1"tukl<:1e J) ?)ior r'o t ek n

W£lS .

En w t woo 10 (loel , at rma 'fnr. Venter oe doel om el ie

besh~ldl de n&n u te oorhandlg? --- Edel ebor ly't hul le vc r­

voer vena! Zeerust of v anaf 1 ustenbur na my toe dit i s pl 'I( t

by d r or mee to doen p,ehad het.

En wos aie 1300 dat hulle voor ' n Lanc1dros e eno cn moet 'Itor<1

d w )? --- Edeluf,b ' ro ned e:~ ek hulle ondervre. hot en .bulle • n

['lokera Y'epn rt ann my ~cmnak het

Bulle ' n ra ort oMaak het? --- Hulle

toT e ? --- let ' n r n rv'ort B f ' n '!I:,/ [;emot, die col ' ]:11 Jon

-5-

J a . --- T I)4t het ek Il8n hulle gevra. of hulle bel'e ld is r:1

die ra port wnt hulle uan my gemuak bet op nkrif voor

roo te doen. Deide VlOS bel"eldwilllg am it te doan.

En htl lle wou ' n bekentenls arlO? ' n Bekentenln in

woarop c1it neorgeko!1l het die rapport Edels ,buro.

Wanneer het u e rs ui 'tr,evind dat hulle ' n )ekentonie o;e-•

nnak he t? Toe ak hulle ondorvra het Edelagbrre.

Geen onnuuid ine VDn

Nee .

Ek dink u laas tCl ont woord Vias nee rna r di t \ as baie bC:' ie

oag . Loot r>no d1t so atel

en of o.i 't af 3edwing was of vryvll11iglik mauk nie sac.k vir

hierdie .vraae , maar indian hulle bekent~Plis cerna c het

clie land

Rue eb.,re indian <lit ' n okriftel ;ka verklarine ' ... ·ae GOU e

verwag het om die verklarin te kry, ' n afskrif danrvpn. In­

dian dit mondolinga verklorinp, wan dun kon ek ni vorwae hot OM

• n ofllkrif dt arvan te verkry nie Edelaghnre .

mror eintlik lout onu en one knn aanneom w nn or tn ve~du~to

annrehou word naby dio p'rens

--- Ja die !torrek.

Re rs hy wes op pad om terroriste of milit~re onlciuir~

to ontveng Din korrok

jn Ed elsgbsl"o.

n it in van vC'ili r~t GiufJ-

:nenoe baie belencrik om u1't to vine! w~L ointlik

Dis k orreJ< ja r de l nebnre .

~'£.\nt d is nip muor not • n J{\'lO sn io von

TI};c r hv Inl(! ';e1 r)· n r' lli,'i inr r eG VI'a t 1, hm 10 ' 1. nn! or nOl'"nonc

6/ •••

-6-

in die orf,ru'li8aoie? --- Ja Edela~bf ,r0 .

Of andoro manne wet besig is om terug to lceer met bomr:le

of .. renade on GO u.un? -- Die ook reg Edolugb ure.

En ek neem clan dat tyd io vir julle drineend? -- Ilis ook

korrek Edelogbare.

So ek neem ann ns ~evolg venaf wat u nlrccde ge & het , t t

ons kon ons lean vorondere tel dat die VeiliRheid po1101e to Zee­

rust onrnitldelli{ te werle Begnan hot of so poo"ig moontll1{

--- Ja Edelagbare en ook om hulle ldentlteit vas te atel woar

hulle van donn af kom.

Preoiea want tlit help om vas te B e1 WIlt eln t1ik

waarhcld is of nic. Io dit

reg? Da.n so u nle vorwag indien jy

vol tdlge i nlic tlng

Ja hy (': ou weet

Verl{e erd o'f onrsp, weco? ... -- Hy DOU Ede1ngbare .

rtae.r in hlerdio sank hierdio l'eval was dit aan U oor(,ll9,at?

Edelagbro'e elr het 'n telex borig ontVElnB wasrin dio beworing

dnt beide beokuldi{'.doe te Zeerust Gome1<.l het dat hul10 OT) nrrd

Bo towunn toe w a vir mil1t~ro 0 lei~ ine maur dear woo Gran

vcrklarinf, vnn hulle g-noom nic .

j ~et onder woorde u het In telex ontvan dat hullo duur 'n

bekentenl0 r,emuak h t? --- Ek het in11r.tine gehad E:leluf'.ban­

wat ok v on inlir,til'lC l_ nformeole wat ek van Zeerust ontvnn het .

Deur die telex? --- Oeur die telex .

L n die telax het "Jnr. rma die telex von ~nr . C'rvuoe ? --­

Nee Edelaebr re dlt Vi'lifJ von d ie Afde1inp,sbevolvoero 'T otchof­

ztroom pewees , oit wae via hom .

Di t ~ taD vin horn? - - - Vin hom .

r n v:::.l ~ulle of vo l 7, o erUf.tt ir:dpr Po t C"C f o tr'1'Jn'; - -- ,tulle

v e l ~t'd or Potcl-'o fotroo'1 .1 •• 7/ •••

-7-

En die telox het gee@ die albei bcekuldigdes tn beh'ln-

tenis afeelA het --- Nee inli~ting eegee het dot hulle 0 p d

was om militAre ople1dine nike

je darre eeen '!lelding gemaak ven 'n bekentenio ni • Edelae,baxe

net go

Het jy n')u nie so poor minute terug geo~ dnt die telex •

Nae Edclagbaro n~e ok het d1t nie gea@ nie .

'!nar

!!Q!I IH e telex het nie eo gesl nfe? -- Nee Edelaeburo.

Maar dit hot ncergekom op 'n bekentenia? --- Noe Bdolu bare

dit het neereekom Oil informneie. 'n Bokentenis ken lees voor

'n Lunddros eernaak word of voor en ~ol19 ie offisier wat aonge-

etel io as In vrederegter.

Je. feQr aan 'n rewone poll ie be m to

tel • tl bekent.enio of t n I:.'rkenninp, nike nie .

Ja e~: weet it V PTO te.an one r:lnar vIOl --- Ja

nr. l,ui ten.nt ernUDe woe hY' nie in otaat om • n be conteni

nie 'n vro<1e ~'ea.":ln te nl0

--- Edelap-baro h, 's 'n vrederer,tor. hy os in etaat en by nt

om 'n bl kcnten1e von hulla of t noem.

t lex \aa

lout ak so etcl

be kulcl if-des casien hat? Dio korrok ja EdelaRbnre.

En dot hulle of 1e inhoud van die telex an tilt ullo

op pad was

Ja Edelngboro en daor wac ook t n k t art in hulle beoi ·t; ;-ovind

vms wet die P" d aangedu1 het.

J 0. .

8/ •••

-8-

volr-ene u inli~ting het hulle die

von die

Sou eo se ~ ja Edelagbare.

Was d1t nie duidelllc dnt hulle von die telex af

-- Ja Edelal;bare ek sou ook so eft. Elc wl1

ook net meld in die Hof die . dag toe ek die beAk!lldl~dea ondcr­

vro hot, indien hulle 'n ander rapport ann my eemaak hat as

die ean wat Belei hat to 't die bekontenla en (lit was 'n redelike

erumeemlike verdu lc1eliklna dnn so ek die beo}{uld iedon vry F"olnnt

het Edela. ~bare.

Ja one maak !loan nantyging dat tn endcr rap ""Iort nan u

terug tEt j 1e gemt-;o.k was

lator na d1t. Voordat u elie besl{uldiede I~esien het, vo l rena

u inligting ~ as di t vir u dt' idelik dat hulle hereid was

--- Nee Edalagbnre, nee.

Met ander w orde u wou van at 1 of hulle bereld .os om

daardie inl1gtinp, voor 'n Landdroe ook te vermeld? --- Dis

J{orrek ja.

Ken u vertel hookom daardie danr 10

HOP t Mnr. nogr,et kon jy biotji(J pouoe neo want die t rJl l hinder -die 8S hy tolk gelykty ie met u vraag dan tel cle niel (1 10

"/oorda 0)) nie.

Your ~~ors i 1') noean' t want me to talk while he io to.1klnn?

COtJR·~: Some t:trnee the ba clr.rrotlnu of the interpre t ation in tar ereo

w1th

I apn r'(lcitlte that J hopo that todtW r"m comine over l oud

anti cloe..r

COT!t i' ! You'll be cominG over the m1croT'lhone all ri .,ht, rem

further a·.va.~> from y 1.1 than t 0 microT')h me .

-9-

N1e 'ienllard 16 dat or In vories f'elcenthr ill

die veilirheidc

p,edoen was dit Vli1 s~ om die beokuldigdeo voor ' n Lun dror

to neem nie? --- nee Edela.r,bore nee.

opt;oslu1 t i9 •

Korrek .

Lui tenant Cruuso kon bnie multlik danrd1s

daar t s ook een of meer 1and­

dI'O te te Zeerust? --- Di t anl elf. nie west nie Edela.ebE;lXo .

Zeerust is 'n f r oot

dorp? --- Ek weet tlio Edola.ebare ek a s nog nie dsar gowces 1io .

lila r daar is t n Land rookanto!)r danr? --- Bk glo so. Ek:

610 no .

K~n u

Rewer, het

oleo 1n 1k

Re\';a.e oodst (11e beakul rli'1fl0 eera na julle p,cbrine was e 11 o~

van --- Edelagbara danr Ii '08

' n nai 'eek t u con in ook ewaee.

Edelaebare - - - ? 6!11.; 0

was 'n ~ £ll'lndQR floweee Edelagbare .

Maar nogtans is

-- Edela,('bare dit hang af of daar tn peloenthoid is v n Zo nwt

·ons het nie a1 tyd die mense be kikbaar om prieoniore hean on

woeI' tuseen nl ekke te vervocr nio en oct nie III tyd die voertuie

nie .

Mour ie hulle dan oneeelult

korre t .

--- Dio

En 1 at ons maar net veronderotol , ek veronderotel dnt

(1 o.r landdro '1;0 ls - -- Goed ono f1t~l ro voor ja

10/~ ••

-10-

(] is ll1e vir u elcnnardie dat {r,oen

-- neo EdeIa.gbare BInd nic.

free Edelagbnre die dine is dit waar persone GllDm oweer om

uie l and to verlest ondereoek die vei1i{'heidDtek van dnr-i [10-

biod neem die beolruldlgdes oor by von die plek Wa£l.r hulle •

arresteer waG en die voI1igheidetnk In wio ee eebied die meloe

sllamgeoweer hat om uit te B c Wl hullo ondersoek dio voorval.

N .. tuurlilt ie d it julIe van belang om die aaal< of die ,M-klnetos helr julIe

P011£iie? -- . it he lp one

Die bow.'s van ( 1e - mieda.a.cl.

Oortrerling --- Di£=3 korrek.

IU daad. Op danrdie etodiQ~ in fleptember verlode j eer

w s die nuwe Artikel in die

ven die bekentenis · 11. ts die bonk ldigde s~ hy wil • n

is dit nle waar nIe? --- Ja Edelagbare.

En bchalvi8 het al julIo Po11oIernolme (,oweet ns as

-- nis my ~o'tull' n

E(lo1np:bore.

10 dit as

Dit is vir die Howe om te bOF'llult nie vir m~r nie Edelagbare .

So ok ie vorlreerd elt if) nle r,oln1Jereeeeerd in hoe u d:tt

besk")u mens pr. - Nec daaron ken ok nle ~ 11io r c ocr di t fl

vir (] 1e Tm"/e om te beolu1 t daard1e.

c ic in ot{TIarninr, von r 10 fa it dnt

h? l:un mr 1- ilt b nn , f n uur of • n tlf':j r ) ' n '{prd. --- r-: nle.r,b rc e

11/ •••

-11-

Lc.nddros beokikbt1al" io I'! rn60k word indian denr nie ' 11 1,<-.,." : ron

beekikbaar io nie io ' n Po11~ le offioier eo uie bckontp. 'r, d 1

ufreneell het .

Laat onn net V8r dorst6l dat

wear dnr'r reen ~er.f'ld 1s en daar {"eell dreigement ven verdor 0-

• weld roed -- Din korre { dC'ar \-.1;1.9 niko.

I1ocko !"10U jn ( io reVf }oekom sou In verda to ' n bckontcnio

Bema.n clink u? --- 'le1 Edelagbore

",'ae ok r'ra.~t nou in die a1 cmeen --- ~eker erkan d t I Y dio

mis(la. r. d gcpleeg he 't en probeer om die goedgunst i ehei(l v on die ITof

to k ry deur to t· ::: {yk hy 1 beraid om saam to \vcrl{ on nl dnai

tipc V l.n dine.

J . maar cyk dit is

ITof teen .

En

Dir korrel- ja .

mink ion het hy

by o~t uitdrukking - - - 'ou dio Inmooi nit(1ruk~ri1~ 1it in no

Edola.p,hare .

~lDar as ai t d 10 ,!'revool 10 op cen mOMont (an 'y vprander een

uur later? -- Dit 19 vir dio beokuldigde ook deardio d is vir han

VOInnamlik vornaamllk as by met onder prisoniero in or.:mrnJ:in

korn V(lrft (n? - - - In clio no .

Denrom

voriee celeenLhede dour die ~of r,eotref 0.1 en sv~ minkien hom

)ee nie ' n be1r entenin --- !lit knn co . eea jo..

:11 t in t n rev psr wat WE arvan u bewue is nie \"" ... ur nie? -

Din moontlik •

. fltuur1ik 'n aleemene sielkun fli e feit wat cn1~e T'olinio

vcrnt'l.::l mlik ' n OI'Vr"re pol1Aier.J.Gn in die vcj.li~hoic.lstt'k V(:n bOYlllCl

is . --- nit i s? Enelaebore .

. nt' urli'( wt:'s U \"JDO in i.e on er-nie tea ·"oordi{,;

12/ •••

-12-

vro.g1ne to Zeeruot m .. r d1t eal die beakuld1edas ee getuienio

w os dnt b kenteni9se wao van 11ulle to ZeCnlDt afg d ling":' -­

.Edelagbare ok weet ni van die bekentonis wat d nr op by hulle

afgodwine ia nie. Indian dear nou bewerinfJB is van • n be en '­

nie Qf :;edwing io teZeeru t het d1 t nag niks to mnalt mot dio

bekentenis wat hulle h10r in Johannesburg af 1~ het nle, lc •

nie oian VIC r die twoe dinee verbend Rf'!brin.3 ken word nic.

HIr sal vir u m It nctnou. Boolrul 1 do

nou bY' u in korn weo do. r en1go ander

HOi? I at ~ hy"? -rooon in u kantoor?

Toe die bcsl(Uld1~de ok prnat nou van beokuldlgde nommor

een toe hy by u in kom het, was daar eniee aneter per oon? -

Nee Edelagbare ek was sllcen geVleea oOHm met hom.

U V;Be alleen'l -- Ja.

. En saaJ1'l met hom? -- Hee •

Edelagbare was goen tolk gawooa nie.

111e an er beokuld1gde nommer twee was oak nie saron nie? -­

Nee Edelagbsl'e .

Hor I l1ommor ~en VlUG dUG elleenie? -- Eors nommer een ing br'in~ -cn too nodat ok met hom klnnr woe nomnor twoe Edolcl(;b f ' c.

"iio hat nOll die b~ kuldigde uitf1ova.t

be rold 'Vue am In bekontonia f to la? - Edelsr,bnro clc het <1 io

bowcrinfB aUn hom verduiuo11k on aovoortD toett ek ho~ r,ovra of

hy cnieo ieto h~ t om t IJ twoord op die bewel'ings.

T a Ed lacbctTe.

An <lit belsrt Jr1k beakotl (1 t

d1t woo c11eproro ati ef von (' 10 b r:kuld1ed o ewec om 'n ve rklo.-

rinl" voor • . LonGel rnA 11D }~ ok (: n n ' (' vir hom c wo.trw v erlr l c:>-

rin~ om t o rnnn of v~t om to

13/ •••

beraia 10 om In verklaring te maal.<: en hy -het to ee!'l r.ternnult

Eda la.gbare.

Op de rule stadium onder watter Artil~ele van Vluttor • t

VIeD hy aenge cleo? -- By wan nog nl0 in aanhoudin by J 01111

Voreter Ple i n nle Euelagbare .

noe maar hy wae •

of 1 at ons rather 00 00 hy wno in

julle beoi-t (JO to at? --- Edelaf,bare noont hy aen my oorhund1c

was is hy incevolge dio bepnllnge V&n die Strafproaeswct aange-

ou as ' n gow n~ verdagte. En op die en op dio ?7ste Uovemb( ~

hat e k ansook co(loen by die Kommisaris van die ~uld-Afr Ll unoo

Poliaie

!!Q!. t 10 dit ;ovember'?

HOP: J • - - - Hot elr aaneoek - b._ clie Kommlsarie v an die

Su J- Afrlknonse rol inle Bodoen vir aunhoudlng v an bcjdc vordneto

onder Artikel 6 (1) van ·r. et 83/1967 , ilie Te rroriote ~·lot.

Ja.

Die nn die bokan tonio aip-alt) is? -- Ja. EdelngbfJI'o (1i t :1.0

in vcrklarlngo van Zoorust ten 0 olgte van die arrost ia en

aooolt dio kuart Vlat hy die b \.~skuldlBden gevind io r;skry , voor­

Ie ~flin~ van (~i" aaak voor die !)onior Staatsaanltlaer, vir dour­

sendini~ pon die Prokureur- Genero.a.l vir die Pro (urGur-Gcnoraru.

opdragte . Edelagbare d1t vat 'n ,eruime tydjie .

J rnnar d it is

Ja. Edeloebore dnn 01' mapti('l'ine van (lie P-(} wnn.r die )cnlrul­

dir,des nie op borr:to I of nndarsin m g vrygclnat ':.ord nic , ' it

vet nol" In "C:'ldjie om d tll"dia 100 Va)1 hom ,9 kry rdoltt{' bara .

v e l C lC

. . -l~-

- - Dis korrek .

verdapte

die "Tot 0 Terroriome

voor vena! feri Ja djs korrck .

En ana wect (10'1; aovf'r u voratnnn het } et hulle crk(w lin n

~e~e b Zeerust? --- Ja • •

So d it f) do. Td ie Dt dium nie baie nod i gowoen hot

hullo to rlIte! van o....~dcr ner. one en V<.1n moknar --- Edeln(",bptt

indien hullo ' n bekel tenis voor ' n I,orul clros tSI'\ . 1 hullo j.n

annhoudln 0 der nrtlkel 6 (1 ) as of cni ge v orkl rine ~ele'~lc

het . {o dit nie t ola.ntbaor cawoeo hat in die Hof n i •

dit is hoeko!f1

dt t be1a.I1flrik 'vo.a

kentenls eemnak hat?

totdat hy • n. bo-

van u vorat .n."l at

k '.11 t 00 fl tel as hulle nie und r art i kal

VIOrd hullo toe f,o lnnt om Menso to r;ien? --- Aa hulle onde r in-

('evolr,c die

Eniee andcr wet? - - Eniee ender wet jo EdClloc,b 1'0 jn •

. I'ar hoe ",'Oro hulle von

ho r dat )L~ ul'i~

nO'11mer 0 en \,00

die ander berk 1<11rde e1 era

Di t word po.rtyl<:oor ee10en Ede1aebnre .

Pit if" cll1tlik die praktyk sovOr veilig aid ,"'ct icni

-- Edcl-

agbul colt wnn vrooUr jare in die ~pcurt;?l vcrbo"lde en W~C1r ok

eon of meer ben. ldicdes in t n hliobrank of 0 1,.,e ontler ("ud ge­

ad het , VIS, dit oor ia het one oak n1e die bcslruldir,d r1o;um

ODfP9S1111t n1.o f one hot hulle in e. 8r"tp rJlekl:e on":0hou .

T. hpt

15/ •• ••

. . -15-

Dis korrck.

Sy ouore lto.n hom BUWl sien , ey makl-orn lcan hom r,ien nio

wnar . Dis korrel:.

bood ak O.l) po

u1tstuur wot julIo onder oak knn verydel nle aor nio?

Dit 1", korrek.

t11t n1e teonstaando \'lord hy nic

onder nL'dnt ~ cleur 'n Lo.nddro in Johal'lner.bu C

conoem is nic . --- Etle1o. bore dit vat 001,: ' n n(Br doe om 'n 10 -

brief ln~evolr,e Art1kol 6(1) te kry dit is hookom on 10m oolt:

ond~r die bo · lineo von die S·tr af'Proee wot aanhou .

kon u -- Nco Edeln :...

bare slogs • n polioie baampte me t die ran, Vrul Kolonal of boon­

too lam 00 'n 1 sbrief' ultrellc .

Nou wat is llie moe11ilt 19 d: ar nle 'n Kolonal in PotC'.r.e f­

atroo i? --- Potchefstroom 10 bietjic v r von Zeeruot ur sooo ek

d1 t vo rs ·tc.an .

Een of twee nie wner? - Dit ao.l one nie kan eO 1110, . t

sal or19 nie

U pre. t dun Weor vnn dee knn u di t verklaar hock011? In

01 dnnrule dee W M u1e bookuld1gdeo

Bde1a""bare 000$ ok verstn toe ie be lruldi 'lec cearr steer

w e het hulle {!.oo identifika:Ie doku~ nte t>' uJle r,chou ia.

DiD nie L r nie f'nr . wa.nt 8000 die en boakuld11""de vol'1cnn

die eotuienie --- Din

die eerota maal ...... at ek daarvun hoor Edcln~bo.r •

optro C VGn dio pn 1 ini was

be kl ldirda

vorw:,,-dIlT SOy r m ont.li e ven die

om lon to

b~aku1l1i@.le

-16-

Hoo E<lnl aC;br'l"" ek a't m nie dcnrmcc annm uie .

Dit was die redo hoekom julIe

julIo plnn weD vm die boein om hom no ' n rndor plok to n '0 ::1

91"1 ( it in hookom hy (')ll1er Artlkol 6 aangehou W~r' . nlcGs nn. 1 ic

be~:m tenir'. --- r:k bm Ilia c.ia docl d , .. !'Van sion nie Be a afb~ rG .

Goed u Glen njc die doel nio • •

veNor te

nce!n , kl Dr to w ct. . --- b'k noo o ok ees~ het ok hot nie ~eweet

watac ont ereock reads {~odoen wo,e oie , ok het dia be'" kul 1e as

_,0 .. 1'" met t n ~)iotjio inlir:tinr, voora! en daarop ulteobrei m~t

io ondervl"t1.fli! r, cnaovoorto.

I, aar u het Ol'1fJ ";een ClDIlIluidinl,1 eagee dnt u die ~ ~ cul1lir,de

uitp,cvrn het, u hot net vl'ls~es-tel dot hulle

t ea Edolngb~'ro ek

het .:1io \)ortrC' din{~ ann hulle.>o tel nu Ol'.. vol(~(\Jlf' re{,:tcrnrc'ln

ee;o,uOl'olru in die on beide beskul<1ir.dos het ' n verdl1ic1e..lidn

onn my {'ogee. Ek hot,evre. of hullo bere1d is om dit voor ' n

IJru'ld,lrofJ to e;rnn on on hulle W:l9 beroiclwilliC; om '11 t -te t.O •

I oc it Vt a fn h Ie rr 0 prck? -- 0 D1 t Wf) ' 11 h~l() c (1pro}"

t.Ty · t hu' Ie nlo rreer geoien 1110'( --- 1100 .

111eot .11e of dj 1; <lie recta V'looro is, die voorui tne ~ :; inr Vi ~l

U VI rklik die olldercoot:

:va.ar ,en ' em dan sou u verdeI' vroe gevra. hat om u1 t te vind of

dear nner . errone wac wet hu. 1e k impli!"Jeer? -- C! Edel'" ~:l81'C

na nudat hulle terugl3ekom het vnn die Landdro'" of bc.!·::e t !"lin 0)

t n latera SOur.. iuo' too hullc ngeh0u "rlDO i _r.evolr.:o /..rtiJ~ 1 u het

el{ vo!.1.o,1 i ,0 vori=lnrinrc van :) ido )001':\.1.J (~irdoCl cV' t.

J7/ •••

Maar U hot notn0u ~CS~ dot u hulle

liee ek het die vr ap nie moo! veretuW1 n1e Edela.cb rn.

Maar hoe ho ·t u die vranB vGrstaon? -- Ek kon n ie verotDon

wntsor ol.lderC!oek hierby badoel het nie.

On~ weet bale Boed

gdeln ,bare •

t het aolf rar;O u het die onricrsoelc wO(lrecne rt , W'o U

'Vvoorde . lou G~ tl U r/cc t n1e von wo.tter onderaoek elt V ~e rant

1 at 10 . Edalarbore dea.r 1s nie verklarinp,s nl0, dio "'o t

Arti kel 6( 1) von Ilie Wot ' p '!'erroriFlme v ere10 dat beida beokul­

dlgdeo verklarinr,$ tot bevrod1eing ven die Rommioaria nfl (1 1 t

i nie ondereo elt nic . f1 1t io roetine daurdio om d"o.i vo rkld:·inr:o

van die menoe te c~r f dit hot ni B botroY~1n~ r,ehod o? die OOll

nie .

uit c:>o bro1 --- I ull (I kon ny

('oen vert-oro inlig ~ine ~ee nie .

::anne . r ho 't u a 1 t \ll-t{~cvind? fly dio be uldir;ucn .

Wanneor? -- -Too ek dio Artil el 6 ver'clar1n von hu lla f'l'ovot

hot.

)i t is 1 adnt d.ie bekol'1tcni!J feeIt) won? --- findo t io 0-

kentBniGacf~lO 10.

-- '~·f).t ter uokunl('ntc?

v - rJcla.rinr,s v hulle cnecm hot

volledir e vorklnrinr,s"" - - - Vol1edigc ver ler1n~o t ','eo v 11 die

v er'c .(lrin s is ln l!io a I')~'~ e r £1011 ne'er en I: fslcrifto (1' ['rv t!ll io

Tn doo.rdic vcrklrrinpr. nnu In (10 An {IGor no (10flr5cr'? _ .

1 "'/ •••

-18-

; eo hulle ok wil ne t

-- Dit sal ek nie weot nie maar die vr~lnrinea ns i die

Aarutluor eo booit on ek Glo indien die vorded1~in8 Revra at

daarvoor GQU clio Aanklaer dit ann hullo voorsi n het Ec1ela ,bore •

• di t is baie duidel1k

--- Edolaebaro ok nit nat an dime die celoerde advokaatver k.vn

in In sOort801yke Dank in t n onder Ho! wear hy oolt Bovrn het

vir afskrifte van die verklurlnge VOll die beakulcll,doa on daai

betrokke oae.k ho-\: die beskuldledes nio vorklarln ,s em(.tuk nle .

NOG Mnr. mus.r ale in nie vcrwoord nle, in (11e

het nie dtlard 10 - Dit

onl ek nio \'\Ioct nle Edelae,bnre ek W8S nio by ,6W09S nie .

lat~r I n vard 1-

delik1uB va.n dit l~ry, ma.ar is daardlc verklarin f3 nou dt.lor? -

Ek glo so r.delnebare.

En he t jull0 enige boawaar om di t aan flO te oorha.ndirr,?

Nee Edeln here as daar aoneoale gedoon word b r dio 10 f' un

~10 ok u kan dit kry .

Bietjio Inter t 'k .

COUll.!: : You applying to the State? -

COUHT f 7.tr . Prosecutor? -- Well It 11 l'leed

thour..htn tha·t if anything is trite in law,

it's the :right of an nccused. to et cop1 · 9 of all !"'uch infoTmc.-

tio 1.

COUHT t Tho PrOF1ccutor opnr.-re t Y v'i chon t iJ cO"1:Ji O!' r:O' I O ar·r; ---o"d I ,t "1'4.1, •• 1 .• t io -. enr nnblo t . t'fforJ ment to the CO! t'~ El.ry . .!:;1r

- 19-

e ither part:! an oT)1'"Iortunity to consider h i " posltioc. Y l.

arc attar ") 'in~~ t) rnsh hin 'nto .... h,.. matter i~ diateJy .

"'ell

COUll.T 1 "'ell ~ ~ V'ltiLnts t h e Prn ee c' tor wnnto to c aider 11in r ni tio'

T d0 1t t think the~~ t s anything unre non ble in that .

C rtr"inl~T h!"1vro no obje c t i on to thnt , T wan junt tro .'J. od •

oir tlUlt I ns ho . i 1, t avoid on Uf' journment pt t l ,10 gt{;r,o .

Obv ' l.r-I t if r.w leol cd friend ~Bl1.tB t o co nldcr i t '11 ro'n

l10th i nB I con 10 bOllt 1'1; .

w PO'{ !'; ·IOT.it · ·,nIL~ . , . CASE Rf.STJ •

COUllT : Ye s '1r . Prosecutor? --All.} JJ /~~~a :, EdeI t\Gbore ck is be r aid om die verl l£'rinco ~ un II ie

Vordedieine beoklkbaar te tel. Di e v rltlp.r 1n s was In my b i t

~e " '0en en di t 10 die

verklaringR ni jn die

voorsien io nie .

s a sl~1d lcut hlnrdi

vardod! ine

L2E, : n r is . at eo 1 punt; f,nr. Aanklaer . ok het toovn 11,.,. {,,C-

. r ure de (l i e pouoe v ervty9 no. die saak van . t at teen Eooo . 01'1

ondera 1973 . 1I blotl y 815, nou tenny die !1oeinia vin "turnen

vernnder i • io die ponioio Cl OO~ dn(lr in danrdie !:'l ru: 1 tE cr: 0 .. 1 t

"Conso ucntl V the '[lon 1 ,iem hich arir. f) in n caso of on r.·ccuae

v:ho haa boon 1ntoro"'oted under the Act (th . 'rorrOt'if'JM Act) i

tha.t while the Police moy have obtcined n otGtement or 0 con-

tes('\ion from him iii co.nnot place it beforo the C/)urt" en

AAf\!~JAAf~: The pros cution can ' t pinee it before t ! e C'')urt .

a.t th ret'l cst of t~ J e nccused

Your' orslip the stntements they wont in~ir,ht

n thece ~totel"'tents nee' rd ing to oocti on 335 of tIle Crim' I~ 'l l

Code Your ',"or~hip th yare entitled to nee those etpt(·mentn .

cotJP'r : . So they n e flimilnr to on other inEldmi t Eiblo EJ'/jdenc ,

1 t C'Fln ther forfl ' 0 nlr c~ ' (l bo [·:)1"0 t~' c C<mrt throH(,h othor C-h ' ll e1

-20-

cor fiT : But you ere not your£lol f placing be'!'ore the Court?

PR0SF.C'U'l'OR: No Your '!\Iorl" hip .

PHOECUTOH, accused -----number nne

COUR!: You ar making both rtatemontl:; av a.ilable to the H' fanC'(>?

p{(").,p.rUT ·/H,: Yes' ·)ur "/orsh1p.

COURT: Yes ~.1r . ~oefet?

DEFENCE : made availa ble to us know . -*

COUR'r : That be sufficient, adef1u",te?

rE ""'''NC''E I .

co n~ s Othor~ lae i f you vlp.nt you ('an t, ke n ~ dj ournment now

that wi ll ~ivc you another five or seven minutes to

TIl-VET.er: Ne would be further I jus went

cotnU'! No we t ll it'''' mieht be waet1nB t1rne otherwise in un-

necossary question!> or ··. omethin,~ t)f that natnre.

~~: I wouldn 't I ~ouldn 't h ve doclt with

this

COT1llT: There will

}EPEHCE I We ~ould be IH.opy to for our Wor. hil to

u hBt '1la .... orrel u ken hom? -- ,1 ek ken hom .

'Na rk hy onder u? - - - Je hy ons werk seam Edelu{7,ht"! re .

llQl:.: '''1e i~iit? --- fy Adjudant Offinier 71 agorreJ .•

Di e betrok~r orrend?

-21-

-- Dit lean rnoontlik e Edell'.lgbere.

mOf>ntlik

weoe dat hy benkuldigde nommer e n aaneerund het? --- leo

F.delai'b"'rEl <lit io nie •

. 'oeltom ft u die onmoontlik? --- Ek ken Adjudant Offir.:icr

r.raBroll dit is nie sy wyse van or:>trede donrdie uie Edelo.r,b(,I'c.

Ek ken hom ba ie goed Edelagb .re,

So u nie sO dit· 8

-- Edelaeb ' lre d.ie tipe van e.a.ntyeinp,B deur die Verdedi p,ine

in hiard1e tipe vlln ea.ke word d1kV{el~ . ndervi d in die ver! ore

van hiordie ti po s e . F.dela )lare ok verwerp dO£lrdle aant:Jr,in 6

me t d 1e mina..",tin 1 wat 1 t verdlen.

-- bTCEI.r dis false

Dit is so --- Dis falf'e bewerincs 'tat retUaak v.ord hier

teen lie Veilip.heido~ollsie Edelagbare .

Ek hat een bewe ring emaak ek h t gevra

vel 'ug

kon u d ir'ek ant 'oord t oeebllef? --- Dis korrek E la./~ boro ek

veI"\'\'ag 111e Bulke optrede von enige J)olisiebenm. te nie.

Dan e1ntlik is di t nodi am t e~ by to voeg dat jy ken

,1aer/) 11 goed -- Sa ek cen

ant en1(;e pol1eieman rou ni so op tree n; e in <U 0 rnu{';?

Ja..

net omterug te geon ann jou laoste ontwoord, r:e tl ienis

is dnt ooortp,clyke

In die lowe . a (de korrek d 1. kOll k ja.

Dan it,j Abr:~rl'\ sa eetuienifl vir u vor . t[\onbElf~r hv he t nop

nooit van SOi(''tfl ,.. ..... hoor~¥: --- me }tAn n10 n hoevool koor

-22-

Abraham ooi t in oy lowe in die Hof was of hy ooi t dnar \ '[?l ni

net hy kan dit nntwoord TIdelagbore .

seak dis die eers'te keer wet ek hom ontmoot het.

twO€! beolculdipues op

een stadiu.'1l te sar,m as in ' n wflp:komer?

'flar so ell t weeo?

Dis moontllk ja.

Ie dasr 'n wOBkemer deer? --- Daar is ' n e kam r.

Nee

Op die verdiepin , nie in die wegkamer nie? --- r.k '\'(~ot

nle watter Kamer hulle an~ehou was voor 1 ulle na my toe Rebrinp

was nie Edela bare.

Nee maar 'ut ek vrn is ie c1aar ' n kamar at DB • n 'tr l{'l~ rm()r

boskou' kan \I'ord? p d 1e gde vloer n Kaptein (r n 1'ri l'ht

Ge {antoor 1e 0 (lie lOde vlcer Edelaebnrc .

in die wBgkamer wear di took e1 mag wee ok weot nio \ .... ·tter

vordi.pine; aan0chou waR? Dis moontll1r r;delagbt ro.

dot bulle nu t r.

Cronwr1ght p,eneem \,,/£1£\? -- Hull iEl nie no. ·~nr. C'ronwrl{,,ht too

~eneem nie t hulle wee no my toe p,ebring Edelagbt'r •

dnt ointlik 81 twee van hulle op eon Eltadium na ,inr . Cr' n-

wrir.ht ~eneem en ek wi1 dit net nEn u Atel wont dio anllner

mo t do rv~n ~et, en hulle bewering sal wees dat hy

d1eoelfdo ooort bewerin~ m0a{ of

verk artng m ak vat hulle ann c1 ic p')lir-ie . e ~" to Zeoruot

eemaak hat. --- Edelar,b<lre dit stroon nie mot die 0 , trede von

die vejli~heid 01i. 10 nie pk ~lo (it n ia . ~n/ ..

. -

-23-

!.!..Q!: In elk p,oval ek neem aon van jou ge tuienis jy dra. p'een

kennio daarvan n1e? --- Ek dre peon kennio danrvon t.ie.

Ek verwa nie dat hy ltenn1tl da.nrvan dra nie mat r ok 'link

aan die Hof

Cronwright •

HOPs Goad dan maak net 130 op tn mate so san die anderkrmt ('.0

dit duide11k is <lat die getula die vratlg nia ken ontwoord nie

of die otolllng nie lra.n entwoord den dien d1t eeen do!'} nie.

DEPENCE : .Ja m ar I tm informing my l()D.rned friend that' s the

purpose of that ~uestion.

Die

reen d nt

u het vir hom bes~

aan die ma~i9t raat die londdros ~ft WRt hy vir die poliole te

ZeeT\U4t re03 het? --- Ek ortken d1 t Edelagb re. B p l~e t hom

c.evra of h • bereid wae om tn verkJuring ' n bekent nio voor In

' Landdros te mr ak waara!' hy .":e"' ~ he t jn.

verhoor en (nt u vorder

{,3cB£lan hot en vir hom ee~ hat dat indion d 10 I, ddros vir hom.

VTa hoekom hy 'n verklaring wil mack rno t hy v1r die I,anddro s

~ dat hy t n veI'~clHrin . wil monk

nor: DDt hy wnt?

'n Verklnring V,IQU !T}ook at hy dink dl t sal hom help in C' ~

eok . -- nee Fdelsrbare rtis 0 moont11k

en hy huin toe r aon en 'n noo r't r'c 1; leo

idoe \":Ot ~ u" --- Ek ontken d1 t.

Goed . ! au orr. net (hd~elik vas te fl tel U Ii t 0 v[l!"af aut

die bcnkuldipde no u toe p.ekom hat a u

Die korre~ j ~delnnbnTQ .

m:t mrll1< hot u vol J e inr' e in rIle lOf" ' l p r? --- ~lj.! korr! }~ .

?4/ •••

· . -24-

En natuur11k u het ook met die gstuiea gasels ek prnat ok

e@ nie daar was enige iete onbehoorlik nie , maar u het die rfe­

tu1ea bymekaar r,ekry? --- Ek verataan flOU nie watter pe t uianio

prest u van?

Die staatop,etuica in hl.eruie --- Die polir'io Bet 11 0 • o.

tlfeer hot u nie met hulls eepraat voordnt julIe Hof too e­

ko:n h o t nia? --- Nee Edelagbare .

Glad nie f? --- Gla.d nie . Hie oor die saak met d e Meriete

ven die Baak rla~ nie.

Nie cera oor die getu1enie

Ne~ ~delae;bare .

Sou u d1t as onbehoor11k beokou? - -- Ek sou (lit ae on­

behoorlik beoltou.

Vir 'n eetuie to e~ kyk ek wi1 h~ jy mo e t d1eond f3I'VrSeinf,

beskr,rf? --- D1-l; sou onbeh orlik ewees hat Edulagbare.

el< dit a£ln jou etel da't dit is wat In mene sou verwag v 1. In

prolturour of • n ollder-soek beEU!lpte dot hy sal aanduid inp, p,ee

van die toma waaroor die gotu1e Revra s uI wees --- BdelBebal~

die rede hoekom ok d1t nie gedoen het n1e ek west dit sou aonre­

vol word deur die Verdadlgin{ aIr.- hot 0.1 Bulka vrae hot 01 O'T)~o­

duik in vorieo sake.

deel s~ dat as die ge-

tuienis ree 1"'10et u met Reen ander ge tuie fJ,esel nie? --- E1<:

weet nie dabr van nie EdelQRbnre d it is maar net "IU t ek doon.

£\{ knn nie vir die onder lede van die mae verantwoonlinr doan

of e0 vmt hulle ontrl~dc sal woes nie, ek doen d1t nie.

7/eer tl. het nooitr'lehoor V f.!1'1 so 'n ret!lin~ of 'n Tlrokt~rk?

Hee.

In elk r' pVA.l tot non toe W8f-1

25/ •••

-25-

DovOr dit u b trof wa. die beekuIdlgde van die ka~e~

Ja Edelagbare .

110.9 hy 00 enige m nier aa.!'lp.orond of op antee m nle l' beoee r

wag {lOU u da .. l~ ceweot let? --- J a Bdcla bare .

En vannf die tycl dat by na julIe toe gekorn he t WLJr; do.or •

nlke ander~ as poeie behnndellng? --- ik, an re e as Goel

beh mdellnr, io .

Geen h ringa - -- Geen be ring nie Ecol eb rc.

tk ~il net nommor twae ee be~erinfl behandel.

verklaring onthou u dat of het t\

op die ?)ote vir 1e bcokuldigda nomrn~r een f.,e cIs en vir h"m

ees~ clat hh fml in 10 ITO! verakyn (11 volt end dee. 23. te?

-- 23ste van?

Ja v an Januurie 1978'. --- Die raoo'1tlik Eddlaebo.re.

Het jy vir hom Bes~ dut hy moot o,:,uldlg oloit? --- He •

Bn dat die Lru)ddr08 ho~ sal uit vrae vro? --- {ee.

af te hondel it i

beakuldigde no~~er tw'e

onder andere sal hy B~ dat to John Voroter Souare h t

U Mot hom f:, 1')r at n vir hom p,oe hy g(lf n f n f .. nddrof.l (lion

en dat a ao hy vir die LanddroA vertel

ontlastinp, u ver taan my --- Urn

an ea.l jy vir hom vir dl res van .y- le\',!o to John lort ter

Souare --.... Di 01<: ontken dit t nn 0 t rkato

Ja hom v f" rtel '0 jv hom nie vert I

HOI": wat --Of c:! s u die landdrofl vartel e1'1. hy ' t • n woord GO;! brui!-c 'ITtl t

O!1 n ~l..·· s tine fin ui cpn eXor8£'ln the ~vo rd which i n '1onof1yl lnbi

but T thour,ht for tho c1 i~~ni ty of t co rt I co ho~) it

HOP! f~n r (.: rdin 26/ .....

-26-

~anr u verstaan my --- Ek verstaan ek veretoan w·t u bedoel

u ontken dit? --- Ek ontken dlt.

En hy a0.1 oolt aantye;lngo mnsk dat K pte 111 CrollWI iCht

/

Innate aantyglng wnt ek wi1 an u etel eal vir nr. r.ron\~ir.ht •

voor u Bee~ het vir nommer twce nat as hy ns ~y

oin of din~ 1 nddroe vert ~l ow

hy, Cronwr1eht, vir no~er tvee doo mask.

dlt hot n1e so gebeur n1e, 41a OnWQBr.

oe '.dolo bore

Nommer twee. I just want to be more accurate thero Air

wnt hy eese het ' e h nle dio reete ding v1r die LF.md (~ ros ver­

tel nie en nie die Landdro9 vertel d t hY'MOU na Dot~wnna toe

p,aan vir milittre 0 leldin eou hy vir !l~m doodmaak. --- .leo

Edel&gbare.

Ek atel vir u om vir rekordedoeleindes. I hove no rurtior

questions.

NO rUR'M£ER -GEEIJ IlEH-Ormp.:NRAGING DEUR AANKLAER.

R

nIl:; ~TAA'.r HOFF .

EVANf, ;lmnrnA: b. v. I

You are E\ constable in the C";outh-Africnn Police fl tationor

at Zeerust? --- Vert

Attached to tho 'iecurity Police? -- Co r rect.

NoVl do you know the accused befor Court? --- 1 ,1 know

both the ccused Your Vorship.

':"hen did you have your first dealinen with the accused

before Court? Th21st September 1971 Your' ,orohi n.

"{ow wh1 cb nccuaed d 1d you contac·t first ? --- As indic nte r

by the witlwon Ilccnoe nllTlber t wo ')ur "ornl' in.

"l! ro di.l you fin hi'n? _._- r f o UK 1i ct Ot te rRhoop.

-27-

And vJhere did, ou take him? --- I taoIt him to our ofrican

at Zeer.1st Your. Worship.

No ' whet time \ as that when you took him over f r om Ott fl Tn­

hoop? --- It 7; fi ton minuter:! post nine in tho forenoon Your

,iOlnhip.

"'ae he in cua tody nt Otterohoop1 --- He " C FJ .

'{es e 1,] •. au too hi'r., to Zeerust to yl ur offices there. ---

Ja.

'Sho WI::' S wi th y~')u? -- I was one.

Imel ot the offices whnt h ppaned to C'cueed nu'nbar 'two?

Your ';" orahi p when I orri veu at Zeerust 011ce tation, t th

8eourit~ office, the Zeerust ~ecurity Officos number 0 e pre ~ ed

was already there .

'as he also in custody? - Yes he ::10 and then I hanucd

accur.ed nu.:llber tv'rO over to Lieuten::' lt Crauoc . ! , l eft no it's

like t lis Your .'orahl , when I got to our r.:e curity offioao ct

Zeerust I left accused number two a tour oe curi t .v offj ce nt

Ze erust I then went and reporte to Licuta .. 3.l'lt Cra.ur.l •

, here did you leave him? --- At the office.

!low where v.hich office? Thi. mus t be a. bip, bu ildin , just

give us tho ex ct location. --- I loft accuoo numb r two C't

our offioes and then I went to the offioe of Lieu tenant r 1.1 e

and I made a report to him Your ~orBhi •

That ' s nov: 'our office and el10 ', he provi0us or ho t' r. hig

n a' U3 ftantlhoa'n Orfice?· --- Y(!s .

:~ you left hi'n in the 011'ico and nccuserl nu.11 )'J r ' u s i c

accu~ cd number 0ne V:' '''If] elre ~dy tl ere? -- ! e '"' n .

Yeo of tel' YOl re orte~ to L1eutenrnt Cr o l3o Wlot h pnnened

thQn? --- ·.··e th._ both Lieu en n t Crnt,,-' e and rny r'e lf, loft I ' ~

An(, l ne. o r VJb Ie (' H ' ~ id ~rou .. w v,.., t .. o ~' CC\.\ · eel? ---7. •••

-28-

I lef·t him in Abram Rnntlh'J,. t s care.

And then did you procoe(' Ot eationin 1 bo th tho uccur/eel?

No I didn 't asle that at all TtTr. --- I then c. l~ed nueotio 1£3 Your

Now V'/ho 'I' wi th you'? --- .1Yflelf , Abram ~untlhoa OJ.1<1 I,icu to-

nont Craus e then oSl:ad o'f3Eltion •

ror how lan~? --- I cannot soy for ho long

qu stioned them Your ':orship bccauoe I kl'lOV! llOllt lhoD. nnkeu ,he n

Ihere tl-:ey \vere I",oing t o .

No I do n 't wan t t he (,'Iueotionc, until "",hen did ;vou ' or e

these nccused Questioned? Until what time ~\ --- Your ···orr..rip

we usually eo to lunch at ouarter to one , we hod t hen ", l ready

finished ('1ue tionlnR them Your Vornhip .

io';'> after tho Clu(!nt il)n1nc wha.t hs!,pened to the 8cC'u~ed

-then? - Aft e r t 10 nuoetioni Yl r: Your 'o;orshin I t ool t' ccunod

numbc r t 0 bfl.~k to 0 t tc rohoo):).

J\nci eccu.oe(1 numt el'" one? --- Ho WE.~B t F3kon bfl d- t o ieeru r t

'Pol ice f', t~ · tion.

Then ;,rou hcnded him over to the ~ tatlon Com '! under I nu p"'lO o?

Ye~ at Ottornhoop.

Pi l 1 ~,I/ U flCO him agnin (lfter thot? --- Your ~orJJhip I E.:! ,ctin

aw him ' h~n I went to fotch him on the ?5th whon I went to

fetch him from Otterrhoop and he va then taken to ·tuatcnbore; .

t!'Ihe f> ccueorl number one ngnin? -- Yes r a. ,., in amv Dccuned

number one on. the ?5t.h v: ~en r . 'ent to fetch ccus eel. numbe r two

at Ot terohoon .

To whom were they h nded ovor? .. 1 .....

" --- ~''he rc?

A ; Ruston er;'.? - - - T h'"nded tJ' C"tl over to Ad judnnt Offi ccr

Vanter.

Itow dill au zne t e:n eftElr thot ap,E"in? --- Y 'JU1' '7orc.hi" I

a.~(dn sew tt, em nt Curt hC're T th ' nk t, Wi (;

2<)/ ....

-"9-nor d~rine the time that you h · deAlin~o ith hot t l~

nccuce at nnv lme d ill you commit any o06.ul t , c id yon influ ' llcC

them in fi n" 'NO? Pid yo w1 tncflD any annnnl t or ~H(l you ... ,,1 t nc r:fl

MY infl llortc i n(1 of t he [1cc noe1? --- r <11 not sneul t 1,}.em ~ nc

I wae not a -:itneO !1 to an oooault Yr;ur "orahi '!'),

!10hOrty [If'.'H'' a ,1 te cl them in ur r9sonee? --- Not ~hot T } ~1

flcenYY'our ·"or~hi n .

11 you t nny ti~e influence them to ay wha t they !'I u1J?

-- N •

And did you wltnos!"\ an" Al.lch infl 'n(' j nt~'? --- No .

··'ere ou t" keel to give evidence in t 11 C (lS("? - - '~he

f tnto r f'luastad me .

On behalf of t !1 e ~:; t a"te? --- T c nnnot nay Vlho Your "'orr.h i 11

I only 'ot 0. !'n<"E'llHlee thot T mu~t p,i va evidenc e in t 10 Ctl fle .

Now when rlid , '011 ret that mef'nar;~? -- I r,ot the r.lO '1 f' O"',C

at our o f ficf"O in ?eeruflt .

'rom ",hom w~n the meo~a e? -- Licuten nt Craufle t" ' v me

thc '1(H"SOre .

And 'NOB the. t aJ.l 1 t fwid and that 1e you must come rmd

{' ive ovidence itl Lhe c c. re? . ~ __ 1 ,'! . Dil you h uve neny 1 e VlhC't t h io ".Jould be nhout? --- I

kne\"! that I hod to co-ne ond evidence :i.n connection w1 t h the '~ '''iO

accused with \: h' ch I h nc dEH:~1nrf' before Your ·':ornhj.p .

nid rou 1{ .ow what sort of evidence «'OU would be oolce( fo r?

Y1U h nr rOl'lethinp in cTOftntccl no pIe 1h t t e 'V ou It O i 1"1" to be

af'll~ ' d . - - - I h t d to c"..,o t 'nd ~i va evidence in (:onne <"'t i on 'i.'h~ t

t h '"'I.' t old 'nO .

'~'ho told yo 1 t, nt? - " our '''orn i bec ou1Jc ',hen J .. nl<cd

number one n CC'H" d v':h t he 'n 0;01n try do in - OChtlf'. lC l qrtd he

!' m n t c !"J, i !JfI. A I

. -

-30-

£!E.Jllt Yon mll.E1t'try ancl stick to the qUfJotiono )ccrusc oth('.l."­

wine ~;·ou arc rOinl? to brine out avid ' nc~ wI ic.. 1n n t v:cntc(l .

The " of'tion is not v-mat nU."lbcr two or number 0 e s.:t1<l but

who "told ~'on that ,.rou no to rrive evi e .1('C rCfPrcl t ;, wh!1t the

two eccuoed t01d you. --- Yea Your Worohln.

£2...I!!: Hi;""ht ... "ell cen you vn wcr thnt flueotion? --- A nucntion • vms put to a('cuse(l number one 'lour ''''orn in w erG o.rn r .oinf' "to

(,OUHT: You £lro go in !7. off tho f>oint a.rn1:n . Do you unc1erott'.n ~., --:r u hnvG juet told t he Court t at you knew tho t yo 1 hid to

come en£1 f!.i.ve evidence here in t his c C'r.e reBordinr, whnt the

two a c\..loed told. you. --- Yen .

90t ' R~: J,~hat we ant tn rr.ow 19 OW yo kne\", -vhnt ev1derce "ou

had to ~ive, \·rho told .' u that or n ' IW . irl you corne to kno" that?

Who toJ.t~ ~ h:tm? --- TJieutenont Crnuse Your I'-orr-hip told I:l~ thut

r mu~t ct)me nd {"iva evidence in conne ction wi t h nccune(1 lU.r. ber

one and t wo .

And whDt they t ld tl-19 Conrt':" --- Y .!'I.

That's \lhf1t ho told you rilSht? --- knew by !'1.yself th :.. t

I he.d to come ~'.nd r,ive ovineneo in connection with "hot the , '

told "!to.

T ova ,tou ."liven tl Gt~tcr'1nnt to

of • It hOC''Jr:1c n rt or

r reo. "lel1 then

r r. [)evffret the investj ee f; ... ~ ,

Of icer in thnt~reon ~uit" - r only knov h m by f3i~ht.

I Cfl1li2- . V vehicle You r ":ornhi r.

Conn trblo :tantlho"' , )i brom 'an tl1lOn .

-31-

Now onnounoecl 1 t on

'r lOf'V y? -- I wns wi t l1 Capt in .f t)iring nn1 Lieuter.ont Cr une .

Ancl Ahra'fl? . --- And' nrrnnt Offic .r

. Hlt68t <md Rer cant ~odlAe.

rquRT' r a -+;rdn "~elri £1. . Tj1~ut(>n nt Cre.upe :lnd '"arT nt f)f leer?

-- lIit ee 0 r "r'o rphip.

G0UItL s Yer~? --- And qerr,cant r. odine Your 'r.'oroh1Y1, en iluntlhoa.

'Ne e OIl 0.11 in t ho srnne car? - - - No .

r n';'}

~o.

l d y, 1 (;) k } 1.,,? -- No ! d id not.

'ere . ou not interc B ted? --- Your '7orshi he rne \'; . y h

had to cornel t o .T hunneabur • but I c annot By hether , hot he

11 c fllled for to tToh nneflburg.

'iVell you weren 't interested cnou~h to ... k him? - -- No . ...

I knC",' he wrg €oinc to C urt .

Yeo well obviouflly . r~Jhen ho r v e evidence

YO!:' .

--- YeEl we \'Yer~ Oif't'!)£nj.nr, th o np,c jn roncr('ll no t; \<Ihat nlmo nod

in C()urt.

I ' m r n1rr to ~ck YOt t tie

V. ur ,. ornhi t \":e h:: d1scusn1ons 0 trtido Court not wbut

" .... ·0 r,oin r. on inr:ide C l1) rt.

'"11 n ,yon e rne out of Co 11't out of the von. tneO!l box :1 ,~ou

a k _ im ho..,,' d 1<1 1 t ro? --- No T 1d not .

,:-' veT" bndl' or they {!o v~'r: I 1 you l-no th ton· '.' u? - - -

T ( 1r1 not .

321/ •••

. .

. . -3?-

imoreooion ond othor times 0 thor timen the nre a'they arc

destroyed n witnesses? --- I do not follow tho defoncc'n

qt cstion pro orly Y )ur ";·oTc'hip.

nave y') ivan evidenco bofore in your life'? -- "on . ,

And ""here f!('cu<Lcl poonle have riven evidence? I be

yours ? •

HCtve ~rou beon in c cseo \"hore ccnned people hovo ~ivon

e vidence? er e

And ou ' vo seen nce fiod pea 1e and wi tn~so 0 ::lomeciMe

,0 very \:'e11 and o ther t i ':1ct1 they d v ry badly in the ':1 t ­

n Sf! box? --- edly in "hi h genoe?

I'l the on e that t ltoy aro dieercdi to ChOwn 'lto be llur ?

- That I h ·ven't pxr rlenc ed .

-- I did not .

--- no . rTe \loulc1 ive ovid nee flhot he !nn"/CI an T 7011.(1 ("vo

'evitlel'1cc what I know .

J 0 bu t t~o i ~ Yoll.r fric 1 i. on' t he? It m ch nnc:i n,~ tJ:o

nubject . In ho in my friend bccnuoo ','0 work top,et ler .

nut : 0 wo n ' t in"torontod to onk him yht:1t hiD evj'(lcncc

VI: obout? --- I f not ant i tIed to do thrJ.t •

.... '110 t ld 'IOU YOll f ro not anti tIed',) -- Tha.t is the 1["\,,' .

I nunt to c ti fy to \'l at r knO\v _11 the othe r r:'l

whn t he ,no m .

<1er ... t... then that you rc not allowod to tl lIe to

hi'l ct 11 ebOl t tho caoo fter ho 11f'~ {?, v n 0vilol1ce? -_ .. t C'! r:

I ' m not enti t ,C ~~ to F2!Jk !-tim what he sc, i 1 in Co rt .

!JO'N who pa .. "c Ii n:t ':0 nrf:> entitle/I? -- Thot ' A tlC 10."1 .

'~he.t' G tie 1 ,., t1 lOW (' . ~ ( 11 f"Iol1r .,m : 1 !rl 0 Trot (l 1< th(\ lr:m·"

1 . ",,1",.,') a lC " •

'·orr'hin.

J ,./ •••

'N ~,; t, i 1-; ':;0 l' r =: h .. lking an') t evidonce i'avo you aver

hUll e.llegat i~n !'laue .~n illf.1 t y u in 0 Curt thn t; : ou ' I :- .:. C\' t'L t ed

un aCClloe' ? --- 1 o.

But ~rO ~ l J.o 'tno n . al1eB.'iltiono of f'uch n. trind ~.r/~ wdo

in tho Court ox' don't y u? .... - Yes 'va rend thf\t in. tho n wo-

paper!3 •

t: i n is B fact thin i ~ ~ ct t .ut is \ wll nown

to a poliCG"'1 1'1 _l\. 'that if" that alleea~ions E\l1d fAlse r-dlofl .· ·tio

arc made a~~inl3t po ~ ice JBll of a s ult and t 111(1'::" like that .

- ce: I knov.' that -tho se fnlae Allcge:tlon/i) a.re mete Of our "'o1's11.11

Can you porhaps hell? us a t 11, Abra.'I1 F:1' a hot n ncvt"jr hCt:l'd

o.f f!lu "11 e -th inc. Jo Y u .. now of any r ecl. on w y he F\ rnlld bo 0

i gnorr:nt of [1 vr~1 11-kno \'.n fect? --- Yen!' Wornh1p Abrrun .now'~

Ye f" 1Nol1 'i'hen j Ot:.. first took custod V of tho nccuf" ed, ,t het

is nU:.1ber two, .i·, you ~llO\V whnt h wen suspectod of? -_.- ':"hen

I came '>acl: fro', Ot tOI'!.!lhoop I l rne ,! .

":e ll wha't won he r-.uflpected of as f r as you knew? - TheY'

ware £!Ut'!,oc teo of beine 980 ple fleointtt the Ho)Ub11c to Dochunnn­

land "[our ', ~or '" 1 1"1 , o~cl we ouc:peeted them of be ing il10gfll irn~Ji-

f, T£1nt, Your "'ornhi n.

'Yo n tho ~ 9 DTl,.V Et1.lMootion t~\Ilt t r;v wore suo octed of ~I)inc

t Eo t swann. for .11111; ry t r " in! t1P? --- rr 0 •

~~o Y0'lr onl:1 in1, ~ rest wes to 11'1 f nct eot-. bIb h r;}l(~V or thov

were (!o inr: out of 'he count~1 :mIl .'hot e r thc~: WC,.(\ f)in(" to 0

ana 't°'1oro the, v :rc ro ing to.

Yes e to linhir.{' th·~t tLOy ",eJO (:r) '.nc;

n co~trpvent~on ot t

rcn ':: ,. "ler

34/ •••

. . - )4-

Yeo t ' t n the car'e wI ieh ~.lo 1 tho ht

eainot them? o.

7el tho 't \,. to t . 0 offo ce t 'cy "erc m f1 n (' ell of? --- ' 0 tr

·or. hip '0 were not p,t' ... ro "6 at or he y VI 1'0 om our co try

or fr):o Dome bO'ly el e' II co un ry rIO r in ( oubt .

Ja I under t'nd thnt . All you 'fye ted to do \' 0. -

t ... blir h ,hotJ VIC l [Iud \. c·o t ..... ny w ro eO r.lil feom

o? --- Yos .

'~a tl at w' 0 tho investigation. --- Yes .

i u th 10 ':r · · no est! n at t t t~e y l'(ln ' t r: r cc t

An t .. a t 0 intoroe;ation tho 'S fliM 1/ clone t ho l i 0"

roin ~ to? --- YCG .

No 7 no-at 0 i n "ar gate then on wI. t or t .y \

tor ori t tralnin,? --- j;o .

An) I nut it t () Y u of c tree Lf ~fou'd l'21o\',n

.)ll( tubl Undi ') hr n Id v 11 ovirl nce OJ 10 0 '0 that t l t 0

UrI eoto t se p )nlo [lllCl tilt t' G

o~n(' tl. r H1H't thuy ':lOrf' U c c1 of CO in> for tillt. ' { trcin n" .

r 0 no t 'cnoH \".,'11 11; he urt Your ',"lo r :' .i ~ •

I the (ccuoo< \ i ll ell hio -','orehi tht t OU'. 11 ~101lr

t o

t i • '0 ~'O d id not renr tha.t uostion, -t ' c ' oJ .. v !'

a1 to u v t t ) Y \0 0 in~ to o.

th. t t \ ~ m B- e

trl'i lYl~ • YQur

l..1f' , t;, ." Dn' . t; 11

1:1. '.\ore ''a ng to .

!'Oflf'j,nn t at

'~'or~ ifl t

, n c~·

t "'. ,,. ,1 (

:0 .:"'" eli 1 n

'0 r O'nC' ','l'nilitc.;

no I; In rc l COll.lO £' i n tn

0'" ' l"t n o r_

. .. Yes bu·t what I \ aut to l:no io dld theJ 1;011 you they

v:e 1"9 Baine fo r mil l tar, troinine is that ~!". r ca.o ? -- !Iu lbcr

one Rccused oaid ha was oing for milito.r~: tr.Jininp, number t vo

accuoed naid the. t he t ni he '1 , 0 () 111f, to 0 uent'_ h mell furtl or

that's now flu:nber two .

So ,,':hut you ore r .ine is that n bel' two f ( mit-to,) thr ~ •

he "·,af.') r.oi e for r1ilitar.,r trninin _, \ ithout your even ~nkil1fl

hi:n ab )ut i ti ~orrv I vd thdrm that ueation , tha't numbor

one ad itted his militar . training intentio 'Ii th ut "our

oven Qsk1n 11 U'I ahout it? --- 'ya aaked him the quostion Your

'orehi '.here are you 1ng to.

Yo we un(leT!!'1t d t ha t, but you d1dn ' t ove e . to hi

re you oinR for military trninlnr.. --- 10 .

And in fact if you ' had your w y <". d th accuoed her

an. 'Nered yo a uld hDve hee Quite c o:tis-

fied with tho ntotomant explaininp, whether 't;hey wero .oin to

leave the oO lJntr : il1oe;filly or no t or \\'hether ' cy<:',Cl'O CO

il!- illeGolly . If you t d lD.tl your \ 'uy lln they ' d e1 von. ,, 0

ta amant you ' d h va beon ol1i to sGtiofied wi t At", tom nt

ju t about their movemonts? --- After 'they hed ·tol Y,l' i or-

r.hil') they were ~kcd rtuof.lt1onr' \1,hore erc .. ou comjn,~ from Fn1

W1H)re arc von l"oin~ to , nnd then tiny , Intl l' cerl; f i notrlB r::nd

Well tho r ' 11 "t ave f'nfl vorccl ornll' first . Bo f 1"(-; t ht'Y

J~ ~<1 tho w en ~'OU r:erc !h t10fied with t~ 00 ",:.r ... mrr ~'OU

~ ni( ",1'i tit 01 t? 1'hils~ ~ v.'ora bUf1Y ques t,jollin , th >to ,

• IC~~ \' Y'9 bWiV wr:.tine do n . then ftorwn 8 they ju t roduced

t (l noto GO lU'1 YO! r ,'tol."ohir :'I 1 tit t: ~'J~n V!hLt thOy told no .

o 0 ud .flir ~h[it ho'n. r.·..,i",17 rf)r m 'l it[l r~ tr i .in. , 11U bor t ',o JG,'

• •

• • e i 11 VI go in to DC 10 1,. our 'Jor 1 r mu t ad hat

.h n acoused numberetwo B id to us that he 1'16 ,)01r1B to G( C t

11m 1£ that th n e ld to BCeu d numb r t 0 no i v u get

wher you' f'.,o1n t ou don't nd that ochool you anted to

attenu nh.e.t Ell'O ,ou. 601n to do th n.

And? - H th n 1d I th n ill al 0 unc rB<) mlll tu~' •

'tl;" 1n1na.

So W 1 t . bocomos yoI"'1 01 or trom your evi n

accused w1thout any m nt10n of

10 th t 0 h

dmitto th t th t w s their in'b nt1on? Yo •

re you ur riBed at such 1rnm d1 t or ar y eo-

o r tion? --r Your .or hip th Y

hord-he d.

re very an thy not

.... t would you hnv d.one he. he bO~'l h ' -h cd? -- •

just 1e v him 11k that evontu ly ho'll c

Whe.t mtLko him eh nge hio etory

to •

- "Iel1 I c .. nnot ony ~ hat aoee on in n mn.n ' EJ ~n 1ncl.

'do~lde him If how he wi 1 r 1y.

11 ~ill

If you are int r ted in anta 11fo or ",h t l"l ,~ fl

chElncr 11io :nind , what makos him trom h reI he~ d ·to r\ noft head.

--- hat I cannot oxplain our or 1p.

how Ionl' do it 1; e

ooldier? -- our ~"or hi I did not

ch ck how many rdnut 1 t took th to re 1y f' they ',ml"O jU!1t

a. ked oue tiona the r pI1 d to the oueations, I can10t , y

for bow Ion how an m1nut D it to k Your or£lhip.

Let me ut it t is w y them qu -

tiona and they wrote do m enow a. --- So-ne r plica \"; rc ~iven

verbally 0 r or h1~. oome ropli

tIlo we rG t e no vO t t' ,t ! d to in my vi Ance.

Itin ,? --- 10 not

-37-

You war naked bout how lonp :;ere tho ifrl tin? Juot

x 1 in to u wh t h pp nod that' 6 811 . Your ,'orohi they

u d their o~m time I crumot ooy bow lone it too th • es but you t know outre Q l xp rienced p,11camon

hw long ho' lon was t it' qu tionin b fore th t ort

to write? --- I did lot check tho tim to seo ho long. • r OVI that b t ucnn iv us tim t • Ho', l one

lave y ou been ill the ltnee · box now? - I do not leno t.

Yee

."\ --- Y ur 'oreb1 ' ! r1i not eh e the tim wh n I ont r d the

All right I . juot w ted to that

there' clock very large olo} \ hich Y u D.

facing - Your orshj, I 1d not look at th eloc t '110 ... I '

nt red the with ae box.

\nl t you &r a~ing 19 you con ive us no ide no ass A -

me ~ of ho ¥ lone you hay been in th '1 tn,e bo , five 0 on

~ t / • Yea '11 tell ue he r<I long? -- I would cay about 2·) or

30 minut f.

int rro tion t t? - ! ,t1 no ch Ie th t" e ·t t) floe 1 0\

lon it t o}r.

r· v t this t ar rou t lin h1 ou have no

id bo lon...~ it too fro th b 1nn1 t th nd of t h 'tho

1.nt ro t1on? -- Y ur or hi!) w could h,ve tart d t t v_ n1; r

at t n to quarter to ne. k 0 thnt t quart r to on

thct re 1111 h d w th th • t at m that y u \ ft t'o

-- "lour ,oro hip all jH; .l::tha 0 - tionin. a ld the wri·tin

• • 'r

'~(o11 ho I 10 .. ,~ (11d jt ~tJko

t did no t c11.oo . tt e VI .tch to '~ee ho'~ 1 . n ~ th '1 wele: writi 1 •

br n cotion 1

tllem is tho. t !'i Cl\t? 'Tho is rreaent? --- Yoe tJ at in 00 .

--- LicutoTIPnt Cr U~Q o ca~ri • " lly left the roo~ to ,0 to hiD

offi e . CO\'.ld. !wv (" or :l a n hour r it could hflve boen whon ho

waD re :Jl yin'" to the lele ;1 10ne rin.-lre; Your ":or~hi ~ .

at rot ff

',".Jhere Vlere yO~l GO il1.~ . - '-- "lho ~re , OU, , er~ re ~t()tl. going to .

00 he r nlier t "/here

. 'ell :tOU i In ' t hev 0 to flU 11 1 t out of hi"'1 1; ~e lie tjot

mIl1a out 0. too th?

'! ou dic.n t t j (' vo to '1'Ul l ·t out of . . They ~''Crcn ' t V D! ' i vo? - - - iTo .

r~ l I'~r v'or n ' t tr.;intj to . :ida? - --- No .

til t i"1 or J 1?; i:Jn

{en It T'

80rt r r]ir:lo~~ e V! ,tId '/1"'1 SLY ' Dolt lace ~.\l1d Pm ::W,V ll ;f, CO

you ·t .l at ~11 t'lo.t bocause 'TO didn· ·t have to tir. . p; .it ou ·t o ~

~h .m co l ... n ' t h .... v o talwn rn':)rc tl an -fiv~ r tr.n n i jill te . • ---

, __ . _._. t _ ________ _

r E ;1 T I r ! CAT t~ • -----------------------. --

Collection Number: AD2021

SOUTH AFRICAN INSTITUTE OF RACE RELATIONS, Security trials 1958-1982

PUBLISHER: Publisher:- Historical Papers, University of the Witwatersrand Location:- Johannesburg ©2012

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