transcript – get and stay charming with jordan harbinger -...

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Transcript – Get and Stay Charming with Jordan Harbinger - #346

Bulletproof Radio Jordan Harbinger #346

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It'smadeinAmerica,notoverseaswithallsortsofweirdchemicals.Youcanget$50todaytowardsanymattresspurchasebyvisitingwww.casper.com/bulletproofandusing"bulletproof"asyourpromocode.Termsandconditionsapply.That'scasper.com/bulletproofwithpromocode"bulletproof."

Speaker2: BulletproofRadio,astationofhighperformance.

Dave: Hey,it'sDaveAspreyofBulletproofRadio.Everynowandthen,Ihavejusttheperfectinterviewhappen.Whenithappens,IcanfeelitwhenI'mdoinganinterview,andIwanttoshareitwithyou.Theoddsareprettyhighthatyouhaven'theardthisepisode,soIworkwiththeteamheretoremastertheinterviewbecauseitwasoneofthemostpopular,mostimpactfulones.I'mre-releasingitasaspecialeditionforyou.ThishasaseparatebenefitforyoubecauseI'musingsometimerightnowtofinishthefinaleditsonthebrandnewbookaboutmitochondria.I'mabouttotellyouthenameofit,andwhereyoucanfindinformationonit,butthisbookissocool.It'sgotsomanyotherthingsinit.I'mgoingtofinisheditingthechapterstomeetmydeadline,andI'mofferingtoyourightnowoneofthemostimpactfulinterviewsI'veeverdone.Ithinkyou'llreallyenjoythis.

Today'scoolfactofthedayiswomenaresubconsciouslymorecharmingwhenthey'reovulating.Infact,andthisisdocumented.Stripperswhoareovulatingearntwiceasmuchmoneyasstripperswhoareeithermenstruatingoronbirthcontrolpills.Ifyouhaveabigintervieworabigdatecomingup,youmightwanttotryandscheduleitwhenyou'reovulating.Thisisactuallyanunfairadvantagethatonlywomencanhave,andit'sjustnotfair.Anyhow,it'salsoshowninadifferentstudythatyourintelligencegoesupifyou'rebelowaverageintelligencewhenovulating,anditgoesdownifyou'reaboveaverageintelligencewhenyou'reovulating.Gofigure.

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ofmeat,whichisenoughforabout20individual-sizedmeals,dependingonhowbigyouareandhowhungryyouare.Youcanchoosefromfourdifferentboxtypes.Allbeef,beefandchicken,beefandporkorthemixedbox.Myfavoritewouldbetheallbeef.Youcanalsocustomizeyourboxwithadd-ontypeslikebacon,ribeyeandbeefbones.Ilovethatstuff.Yougetsomehighqualitybacon.Yougetribeye,whichisthebeststeakyoucanget.Beefbonesarehowyoumakebeefbroth.It'sbasicallyyourmeatforthemonthinabox.Theyalsoincludestepbysteprecipecards,andanotefromthebutcher,describingthecutsandfarm'sfeaturethatmonth.

I'veseentheseguyseverywhere,fromMarkSisson’sshowtotheTodayShow.Foragoodreason,sourcinghighqualitymeatyoucantrustishard,especiallyinsomeareasofthecountry.Thefactthattheydeliverforfreenationwideisprettycool.Bytakingoutthemiddleman,grocerystores,andpurchasingdirectfromfarms,ButcherBoxcanhelpyoubuymeatatalowercost.Then,youbenefitfromthat.It'sacoolbusinessmodelthatmakessureyougetthebestvalue,insteadofjustpassingitoffonthesupplychain.Thepriceisjust$129amonth,whichworksouttolessthan$6.50ameal.Everyboxcomeswithenoughmeatforatleast20individual-sizedmeals,andshippingisfreenationwide,exceptforAlaskaandHawaii.Sorryguys.

Ordernow,andgetfree100%grassfedburgers.Yougetsix6-ounceburgersinyourfirstbox,andusethecodebulletprooftogetanextra$10off.Getstartedbyvisitingbutcherbox.com/bulletproof.Youcancancelanytimewithoutpenalties,sogiveitatry.Visitbutcherbox.com/bulletprooftogetyourfree100%grass-fedburgers.Youget6ofthem,and$10offwiththecodebulletproof.Getyourmeatnow.That'sbutcherbox.com/bulletproof.

Today'sguestontheshowisnoneotherthanJordanHarbinger,whoistheco-founderofareallypopularwebsitecalledtheArtofCharm.Theirwebsite,funnyenoughistheartofcharm.com.It'sinterestingbecauseJordan,youmightconsidertobepartofthispickupartistcommunity,whichisnotsomethingthatmadehimsmilewhenIsaidthat,butthere'sthisthing.Ifyou'renotfamiliarwiththis,there'sagroupofguys,historically,whohavehackedrelationshipstogoout,andbasically,let'ssay,takeadvantageofwomen.There'salsoagroupofguys,onethatIactuallyrespect,whoarelike,"alright,let'steachguyshowtogooutthere,andactuallybegentlemenandhowtoproperlyinteractwithwomen,"becausehonestly,someofus,likeme,whenIwasateenagerandincollegedidn'thaveafreakingclue.That'swhyI'mhavingJordanonbecauseJordan,you'vedefinitelyhadsomepositiveimpactonmultiplepeople'slives.PeopleIknowwhoarelike,"Ididn'tunderstandwhatIwasdoing,andIjustneededtounderstandtheropes."Welcometotheshow.

Jordan: Thanks,Iappreciateit.IschedulethiswhileIwasovulating,sohopefully,myintelligencegoesup.

Dave: Nice.Actually,metoo.Ialsoscheduledthiswhenyouwereinsomekindofdorky-lookingStevieWonderglasses.What'supwiththat?

Jordan: Yes,it'snotjustmyredchild’scostume,butthese,Igotthisideafromyou,obviously.We'rerecordinglateatnight.It's9:30.Somethinglikethat.Imeanit'sactuallypastthat,andIthought,"youknowwhat?Ifyou'regoingtowearyourBluBlockers,I'mgoingtowearmyBluBlockers."Theproblemisyourslookmuchbetterthanmine.MineareliketheJackieOnassisversionofthe


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BluBlockers.I'malsoblockingsomebluewiththisamber-coloredscotch.

Dave: Nice.

Jordan: Bulletproofscotch.

Dave: Thereyougo.It'sbetterthanbeer.Now,I'mgoingtoshowpeoplewhoarewatchingonvideowhatitactuallylookslikewhenIworkinmyoffice.I'mgoingtoturnoffthelightsthatI'musingforthevideo.Theotherone.Damn,itjustturnedred,andIdon'treallywearmyglassesatnight.Ijusthaveredlights,whichhelpwithcollagensynthesis.Theymakemyskinlookyouthful,butmoreimportantly,youdothat,andittellsyourbodyit'snighttimeevenmoresothanjustnothavingredlight.ThisissomethingSteveFowkesandItalkedaboutonthepodcastearlier.It'sactuallyremarkable,whatitdoesforyou,butifI'mrecording,I'mgoingtoturnthelightssoyouguyscanseeme.That'sthestory.Now,you'veseenbothofusinourBluBlockers.

Jordan: Excellent,andIfigure,yes,I'vegottosleepafterthis,solet'sdoit.I'mnotreallyhidingmuchhere,youknow?Peoplehaveseenmeinalotofothervideos,andthisshowisreallypopulariniTunes,sopeopleknowalotofstuffaboutme.Now,theygettoseemelooklikeadorkwithashinyforeheadandsomebiggoggles.

Dave: Nice,andyougotthatniceheadphoneson.Thisistotallycool.Forpeopledriving,you'regoing,"whataretheseguystalkingabout?"Bottomlineiswe'recool.

Jordan: Right,right.Evenifwedosaysoourselves.

Dave: Yes.Jordan,you'vebeenkidnappedtwice.

Jordan: True.

Dave: What'supwiththat,andwhatdidyoulearnfromit?

Jordan: That'sinteresting,youknow?ThefirsttimeIgotkidnapped,Iwas20yearsold.WhatIlearnedfromitwasdon'ttakeeverythingatfacevaluebecausewhathappenedwas,andI'vetalkedaboutthisonmyshowindetail,soI'llgiveyouguysashortversionofcourse.WhathappenedwasIwas20.IgotintoacabinMexico,turnedouttobeaguywhodecidedtotakemetotheghettoofwherever.Itrustedmygut,whichisprobablythebiggerlesson,anddidn'tlethimgetoutofthecabwhenIwasat,whatpeoplewhoinvestigatehomicideswhichwetypicallycall"thesecondarylocation,"whichiswherethepersontakesyou.Theproverbialplacewherenoonecanhearyouscream.Ididn'tlethimgetoutofthecab,andwestruggledbeforewefullygotthere.Then,Iwasabletoescape.

Inthesecondtime,IwasabletousesomeofthesamestuffthatweteachatTheArtofCharm.Rapport-buildingskills,andbasicallygettingpeopletolikeandtrustyoutoprovideanopportunity,createanopportunityinwhichmeandmyfriendwereabletoescape.ThiswasinSerbia,andweweretakenbysomestatesecurityofficers,whicharebasicallyjustlikecorruptmilitiaguysfromBosniathatarenowgivenimmunityintheStateofSerbia.Theyweretotally


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friedonsomesortofsubstance.Thattoldmethatnotonlywasthisstuffgreatfordatingpurposes,butholycow,thiscouldsaveyourlife.

Beforethat,theArtofCharmwasalwaysmuchmorethanjustlikedatingandrelationshipsadvice,butgivenyourintro,therearesomanyguysouttherethatarelike,"Pickupartist.Pickupchicks."WhatweteachattheArtofCharmappliestomen,women,married,single,andourclientsareSpecialForces,allthewaydowntoaguycodingJavascriptinacubiclesomewherebecauseeverybodyusesthisstufffordifferentthings.Atthecoreofitisalwaysauthenticity,honesty,integrity.That'sreallywhatit'sallabout.Itsoundsfunnysayingthatwithsunglasseson,butyouknow,wheninRome.

Dave: Ihavetodouble-downonthat.ThisissomethingIdon'tthinkI'vetalkedabouttoomuch.Thisstuffdidn'talwayscomenaturallytome.Infact,IhadsymptomsofAsperger’ssyndrome,andmybraindidn'tworkverywell.WhenIrealizeditwasimportanttounderstandhowtointeractwithothers,IdecidedIwouldstudyit,buttherewasn'ttheArtofCharm.IusedtogototheStanfordBarn,whichisonStanfordCampus,andit'sthismeetingplace.Duringthedot-comboom,everyentrepreneurwantedtomeeteveryotherentrepreneur.IgothereeveryThursdaynight,andI'msureIwaslikestiffasaboard.IhadnocluewhatIwasdoing,andIwouldjustforcemyselftonetworkwithalltheseentrepreneursuntilIlearnedthegame,untilIbecamegoodatit,untilIdevelopedintuitionandprobablymorenormalsocialskills.Ittook2yearsofprobably3Thursdaysamonth,goingandpracticing.ItwouldhavebeenreallycooliftherewassomewaytoRTFMandtakeacourse.Itotallywouldhavesignedupforit.

Jordan: Yes.Infact,mostofourclientsareinthisbecausetheywanttogetagirlfriend,getmarriedandhavekids.Veryfewguyssignupbecausetheyjustwanttoplaythefield.Alotoftheguysthattrytodothat,weendupscreeningoutbecauseIdon'treallywantsomebodyhereifthey'rejustlike,"Ineedtogetphonenumbersandgetwomentolikeme."Imeanthat'sjustsuchasmall-mindedgoal,andifyoudon'tgetit,thenIdon'twantyouhereinthesamebootcampasaguyfromtheMossadandtheSpecialForces,ArmyRangers,GreenBeretsandSpecialAirServiceguysbecausethey'regoingtobelike,"bootcampwasgreatexceptforthisyahoointhecornerthateverybodywantedtostrangle."

Wedoscreenourclientsprettywell.Thebootcamp'sresidential,soit'snotlikeyoucangobacktoyourhotelroomatnightandgetawayfromsomebodythat'sannoyingyou.You'rewiththeperson24/6duringaweek-longprogram.Ifyougotoneguyinthere,thewholeexperienceisruinedforeverybody,soit'skey.Itreallyissomuchbroaderthanthat.Wehavetonsofwomenlisteningtotheshow,soit'sveryimportanttomethatwomengo,"everyguyneedstheArtofCharm,"not"thisiscreepyandweird.Thisismanipulative."Wedon'twantthatrepatallbecauseitcouldn'tbefurtherfromthetruth.

Dave: Honestly,Icansayalotofguys,clientsI'veworkedwithandjustfriends.Someofthemjustdon'thaveaclueaboutwhattodotoformagoodrelationship.It'snotreallythepickup.Likeyousaid,authenticity,integrity.Iactuallyadmirewhatyouguysdofromthatperspective.Idon'thaveanyissuewithit.IwouldnotcallmyselfafanofthegeneralPUA.

Jordan: Oh,no.


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Dave: Howmany?What'stheratioofgirlsyouhitontogetanumberatthebartonight?

Jordan: Right.

Dave: Thatkindofstuffisnotwhatwe'retalkingabout.It'sactuallycreepy,justlikeyou'resaying.

Jordan: Supercreepy,yes.

Dave: Drawabiglineinthesandtherebecauseit'sfascinating.I'mabigfanofNeilStrauss'writing

aboutthatbecauseit'sjusttooweirdtonotread,butit'snotthelifethatI'drecommendforpeoplewhowanttokickass.

Jordan: Exactly,yes.Iagree.There'salotofoverlapintheaudiencethough,right?

Dave: Yes.

Jordan: Becausealotofpeoplewho,theygo,"oh,Iwanttolearntobereallygoodwithpeople,justlikeIwanttolearntobereallyfitandreallyhealthy."Theygo,"oh,there'sthiswaytobebetterwithpeople,andI'mgoingtolearnthis."Itjustdepends.It'slikeifyoufindtheArtofCharmfirst,you'relike,"oh,great."IfyoufindtheArtofCharmafteryoufindsomeofthepick-upartists'stuff,you'relike,"ohmygosh.ThisiswhatIwantedallalong."Ifyougofardownthatpick-upartist'srabbithole,youcomeoutweirderthanyouwerewhenyouwentinbyafactorofabout1,000.Yougottobereallycareful.You'vetalkedaboutthisonyourshow,andI'veseenyouwriteaboutthis.Toxicinformationgoingintoyourbrainisjustlikedrinkingpoison.Imeanyoumightaswellsuckdownrubbingalcoholifyou'regoingtostartwatchingvideosofguysmeetinggirls,dressedisSpeedos,wearingrollerbladesandstuff.That'sbadforyou.Youmightthinkit'sentertainmentinthebeginning...

Dave: RollerbladesandSpeedos?Dude,whatdoyouwatch?

Jordan: Hey,man,IliveinfreakingSanFrancisco.

Dave: Sorry.

Jordan: IdrovethroughtheCastroonthewayhere.That'sactuallyguyspickingupdudesinrollerbladesbutIjustmorphtheexampletofittheconversation,butit'sverytrue.Imeanthatstuffcanreallypoisonyourbrainbecausethen,youdon'treallyknowwhattobelieve.It'slikegettingbadhealthorbadfitnessadvice.Youlistentoenoughpeople,andyougo,"waitaminute.I'msupposedtoeat18smallmealsadaybecauseI'veheardthatin18different,25differentplaces.Itmustbetrue."Then,youjustgetfrustrated.Then,yougiveuponthewholethingandgoeatapizza.

Dave: Yes.It'strue.Gettingadvicethatdoesn'twork.Itjustmakesyouthrowyourhandsup,anditactuallysucksyourwillpower.Youknow,alotoftheBulletproofDietthat'scomingoutisaboutwillpower.Itjustdrivesmenutswhenbadadvicejustsucksallthatenergyoutofsomeonethat


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theycoulduseforalmostanything.It'sfunnythatyoumentionedkidnapping,ormaybeImentionedittostart,andthen,wegotontheNeilStraussbecauseoneofthethingsinhisotherbook,Emergency,IdidinUrbanEscapeandEvasioncourse.

Jordan: Ididthat,too.

Dave: Didyou?Nice.

Jordan: Yes,yes.

Dave: Itwasamazing.Yougetlockedinatrunk,andlearnwhattodowhenyou'reunlawfullydetainedinSerbiaornot,butitisempoweringtobelike,"yes,Iknowhowtohandlethat."Itwascool.

Jordan: Yes,it'sfunnybecauseIhadanotherArtofCharmstudent.Helearnedhowtopickhandcuffsbecausethatwasoneofthethingswelearnedatthatcourse.Yougetreallydarngoodatpickinghandcuffs.It'slikebehindyourback,whilethey'reonyou,makingthelockpickoutofahairpin.Well,thisguy,andI'llkeepthisstoryshort.IsweartoGod,buthealwayshadlockpickswithhimduringtheclass.We'relike,"listen,batman,youcan'tbringyourlockpicksouttothebar."He'slike,"okay,fine."Wemadehimleaveitathomeoneday,andthelastdayofourfieldworkwherewegooutduringthedayandatnights,andpracticethesestuff,andofcourse,whatdoeshedo?Hefindsapairofpinkfurryhandcuffs,handcuffshimselftoagirl,andgoes,"allright,guys.Where'sthekey?"

Itturnsout,theydidn'tbelongtoanyone.Theonedayhedoesn'tbringhislockpicksforthelastdecadeistheonedaywherehehandcuffshimselftoa19-year-oldAsiangirlwhoisabout5feettallinsideofabar.Bareinmind,thisguyislike45,soshe'snotstokedaboutit.They'relike,"well,wecan'tcallthecopsbecausethislooksweird."Finally,somebodybringsahandcuffkey.OneoftheArtofCharmguyshadahandcuffkeybackatheadquartersforoneofmypairsofhandcuffsthatIwaspracticingonforthiscourse,bringsitoverandunlocksit.Yes,Imeanyoujustneverknowwhenyou'regoingtoneedtopickapairofhandcuffs.

Dave: It'safunnyscale,andit'sshockinghoweasyitis.

Jordan: Yes.Itmakesmescaredforcops.

Dave: Oneofmydrawersoverhere,IhavethepairthatIpracticeonafterIfinishedthatcourse.It'sprobablyinthebackofthedrawersomewhere,butIhaven'tdoneitin3years,butit'saneatlittlepartytrick.

Jordan: Yes,especiallywhenyoucanbuild.Youtakeahairpin,andyoumakethepickwiththehandcuffsinthepinwhileyou'rehandcuffedbeforepeople.Onceyougetreallygoodatit,it'slikebeforeyou'refinishedexplainingwhatyou'regoingtodo,you'relike,"andhere'sthepairofhandcuffs."

Dave: Yes.Copsshoulddefinitelywatchoutforthat.


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Jordan: Yes,nokidding.Ibettheydon'tlikethattrickthough.

Dave: Yes,Ihearthatifyouhandthemtheirhandcuffs,thatyouusuallygettotastetheirnightstick.It'sjustnotagoodplan.

Jordan: Don'ttazeme,bro.

Dave: Yes,anddon'tdothingsthatyou'rehandcuffed.It'sjusteasier.

Jordan: Mm-hmm(affirmative).

Dave: Wetalkedaboutgettingkidnapped,andwetalkedaboutsomanyothercoolstuffyou'vedone.Whatmadeyouwhoyouaretoday?It'skindofaweirdjobyou'vegotthere,tobeperfectlyhonest.

Jordan: Yes,itis.Howitstarted,well,Iwenttolawschool,andIhadasummerinternshipatalawfirminNewYork.Theguywhohiredmewasneverintheoffice.Hewasalwaysoutandabout.ImeanthisguywasfromBrooklyn,andhehadatan.What'swrongwiththispicture,right?Hewasrumoredtomakemoremoneythaneveryoneelseaswell,andoneofthethingthatIfinally...Hecaughtupwithme,andhewaslike...RatherIcaughtupwithhim.Hesaid,"let'sgogetcoffee."IthinkHRmadehimdoitbecausehewas"mymentor,"right,whichonWallStreetislikesomebodyrequiredtopayattentiontoyouonceevery3monthsfor5minutes.

Hesaid,"askmeanything."I'mprettysurehewantedmetoaskhimstuffaboutbeingalawyerhereandrealestatefinanceandblahblahblah.WhatIaskedhiminsteadwas,"howcomeeveryonesaysyoumakemoremoneythaneveryoneelse,butyou'reneverintheoffice?Ifit'sallaboutbillablehours,howdoyoumakemoneybecauseyou'reneverhere?Doyoujustworkfromhome,andwhy?"Hereeledfor1second,andthensaid,"actually,Iworkfromhome,yes.YouseemystuffcominginontheBlackberry"whenpeoplestillusedthose,"butreally,whatI'mdoingismorevaluablethanwhattheothertechnicallawyersaredoing"becauseInoticedtheotherpartnersat1:00inthemorningonaSunday.I'dwalkintogetaCokeandjustdrunkbecausewehaveapantry.I'mlike,"noone'sgoingtobehere,"right?Sureenough,allthepartnersareintherecrankingaway.

Ithought,"what'sgoingonhere?"Youknow,they'reclosingdeals,wrappingthingsup.Well,Itoldhimthat,andhegoes,"listen.Technicalskillsaregreat.They'revaluable.Thoseguysjobatthehighestleveloftechnicalskill,theycanbillprobablyathousandbucksanhour,maybeevenclosetothat.Billing,goingthroughdocuments,doingadealforaninvestmentbanker.Attheendoftheday,theirbillablehoursarewhatmakethemvaluable.Forme,I'mbringinginbusinesstothefirm,soIgetacommissiononthat,andIcanbillmytimeasapartner,butIcanbillthetimethatI'msellingthedealtothefirmitself,nottotheclient."Thefirmliterallypayshimabonus,plushisnormalsalary,plushisbillablehoursjustforgoingoutandmakingnicewithtonsofbankersandpeoplethatbringdeals.Ithought,"waitaminute."ThischangedthewayIlookatworkbecausewhatthismeansisyoucan,notonlyatthebottomleveldoesitmatterwhoyouknowbecausethat'showIgotthejobthereinthefirstplace.


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Atthehighestlevelsofthisbusiness,whatyou'retellingmeistechnicalskillbecomesevenlessvaluableasIgouptheladder,andpeopleskillsbecomeevenmorevaluable.Isortofgraftedinmyhead.I'mlike,"okay.Intheearlystages,technicalskillsdon'tmatterbecauseyou'reuseless."You'reanoverpaidsecretaryasalowerassociate.Then,5yearsin,it'sallaboutyourtechnicalskillsbecauseyou'rereally,reallyusefulasalawyer,butyou'restillcheapenoughtothefirmwheretheycanmakeatonofcashonyou.Then,asyoubecomeapartner,yourtechnicalskillsareattheirpeak,butyou'rereallyflat-linedintermsofthemoneyyoumake,unlessyou'rebringinginbusinesstothefirm.Mostpeoplecan'tdothatbecausethey'reweirdosthathavespenttheirentirelastdecadeinanoffice,filingbriefs.Theguywho'soutgolfing,doingjujitsu,goingoncharitycruises,that'swhatthisguywasliterallydoing.

Irememberhehadakneebraceonce,andIwaslike,"whathappened?"He'slike,"IdidjujitsuwithabunchofguysfromMorganStanleyontheweekendsandstuff.I'mthinking,"you'regoingoutandliving,andthen,youcomebackandgo'oh,yes,IneedamilliondollarcheckforbringinginBearStearn’sbiggestrealestatedealofthedecadetoourlawfirm.'"Then,Ithought,"okay.I'mgoingtoworkonmynetworkingskills.I'mgoingtoworkonmypeopleskillsbecauseIdon'twanttobecompetingagainstalloftheseguyswhodon'tcareabouttheirlife,andarewillingtojustthrowitallawayforbillablehoursandtechnicalprowess,especiallybecausepeopleskillsseemedlikemorefun,andattheendoftheday,they'remorelucrative."Youknowwhathappened?

Afewmonthslater,well,ayearandafewmonthslater,thefirmwentunderbecauseitwasheavilyleveragedinrealestatefinance.Hewalkedintoanotherfirm,andhegotajobasapartner.IknowthatbecausethatSiriusXMwasinthesamebuildingashisotherfirm.Iwasbroadcastingprofessionallybythen,doingtheArtofCharmonsatelliteradio.

ItwasamazingbecauseIwaslike,"ohmygosh.Thisguywalkedoutofthere.Everybodyelseisinearlyretirement,andhewalkedinasapartnertoanotherfirmbecausehehadaclientbookandatonoffriends."That'swhatmademestarttheArtofCharmasapodcastinlawschool,andlater,asasatelliteradioshow.Now,ofcourse,againasapodcastbecausethere'salotofguysoutthereandgirlsthatarebustedtheirtail,learninghowtobethebestCPAaround,learnhowtobethegreatestarchitect.They'regoing,"Igraduatedfromagreatschool.HowcomeIcan'tgetajob?"Then,someyahoolikemewalksintotheofficeandgetsajobbecauseIknowtheotherguy'scollegeroommate.Boom,myresumegoesinadifferentpileandbecomesaformality.

Dave: Youknow,thatsoundslikethelongversionof"it'snotwhatyouknow.It'swhoyouknow."

Jordan: Yes.

Dave: There'ssomethingtobesaidforthat,andyougottoknowthebasicwhats.Mycareerhadsomeofthattoo.I'vehadonementorearlyonwhenIworkedat3Com.Oneofthenowdeadnetworkingcompaniesthatgotboughtbysomeone.

Jordan: Ohmygod,Iremember3Com.


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Dave: Yes,Iforgotwhoboughtthem,buttheyactuallywerethecompanythatbroughtthePalmPilot.Thefirstrealmobiledevicethatwenttomarket.ItwasthistimewhereI'mlike,"whatisthisguydoinginIT?Frankly,whodoalltheotherITguysnotlikehim?"Itwasbecausehedidn'ttakeanytimeinIT.Hewasdoingthesamething.There'speoplewhojustknowhowtodothis,andsoIfollowedthemaroundforayear,andlearnedmoreabouthowthatsideofthebusinesshappened.That'swhyIendedupworkingasaProjectManagerandamarketingpersoninSiliconValleyversusbeingahardcorenetworkengineeringgeek,whichIthinkwouldhavebeenmuchlesssatisfying.

Jordan: Absolutely.It'sfunnyyoushouldbringupthatspecificexamplebecausehonestly,itispeopleontheothersideofthefencewhoeitherdon'tlikethesecretgamebeingplayedordon'tknowaboutthesecretgame.Ifyou'resittingthere,andyou'regoing"Idon'tneedtonetworkwithwhatI'mdoingbecauseblahblahblah,"youjustdon'tknowthesecretgamebeingplayedaroundyou.Ifyoudon'tlikeit,it'sbecauseyou'relastpickforkickballmostlikely,becausealotofpeoplego,"yes,it'sallaboutwhoyouknow.It'snotwhatyouknow.That'sabunchofBS.Ihatethat."Youknowwhat?Isay,"thankgoodnessit'sallaboutwhoyouknowbecausenow,Idon'thavetobeaguywhoworks85hoursaweek,grindingawayatatechnicalskill"becauseifyou'reinajobthatrequires...Evenabillablehour-centricjoblikealawyer,ifyouhavethepeopleskills,peoplego,"ah,you'renowofficiallytheexceptiontothebillablehoursrulebecauseyou'retheonlyguywhocansellthefirm."

Foryourexample,I'vemetwithacoupleofmyfriendsinSiliconValleyhere.IliveinSanFrancisco.They'reBizDevguys,businessdevelopment,andbasically,theseguysarereally,reallygoodnetworkersandfrontmenthatworkatanofficefullofgeniuscodersthatcancreateamazingproducts,butcan'tevenlookanyoneintheeyewhowantstoshaketheirhand.TheseguysarethelifebloodofacompanybecauseimagineacompanylikeDropBox,makinganamazingproduct,andthen,somebodygoes,"whatisyourproductdoing?"They'relike,"well,itallowsustotheCloudStore,"blahblahblahblahblah.Everyone'slike,"what?"Then,theBizDevguygoes,"imagineyourharddriveisinspace,andyouhaveunlimitedstorage,andyoujustdragthingstoit.Anytimeyouhaveaninternetconnection,youuseitjustlikeit'sconnectedtoyourcomputer,andotherpeoplecanusethesameharddrive.Youcanusemymusic,andIcanusemymusic,justlikewe'reinthesameroom."Theygo,"ohmygod,ItotallyneedthatforallthedocumentsthatweuseatGoogle.Howmuchisit?"You'relike,"abilliondollars."They'relike,"great,thatwouldsaveus$1.4billion.I'lltakeit."Youknow?

Guyslikethat,theynetwork,andtheydothesethingsallthetime.OneoftheBizDevguysthatIinterviewedfortheArtofCharm,hedoubledhissalaryin2years,becausehegotraiseseveryfreakingquarterbecausehejustkeptbringinginmoney.Eventually,theyrefusedtopayhimmore,andheleft,andstartedanothercompany,andstartedatthatpay,orstartedanothercompanywithpeople.Hestartedhigherthanthatdoubledsalary.HecontinuestodoublehissalarybecauseeventheVC'sthatinvestinhiscompanyarelike,"fine,we'llpayyoumorebecauseyou'regoingtoleave,andwecan'taffordthat."

Dave: It'sfunny.Forpeoplewhoarerunningcompanies,listeningtotheshow,andthereareseveralIknowof.Ithinktheyallalreadyknowthatyouneverstoppayingtheguyswhoproducethemost.Infact,thereasonthatPerotSystems,RossPerot'scompanywasformedisbecausehe


12

didthatatIBM.Hemadehisannualquotainamonth,andhe'slike,"keeppayingme."They'relike,"no."He'slike,"there'sthedoor.Iseeit."Hestartedacompetingcompanythat'sbeenharassingthemfor30yearsnow.

Jordan: Yes.

Dave: Yes,don'tfeedtheenemythatway.Payyourgoodpeople.

Jordan: Yes.Youhaveto.Competenceisaskill.Alotofpeoplearegoing,"great,soIdon'thavepeopleskills.Iwasn'tbornwiththis.Thanksalotforrubbingitinmyface."WhatwedoatAOC,attheArtofCharm,ourjobistoteachemotionalintelligenceand"peopleskills."Notjustnetworkingandnotjustdating,butpeopleskills,emotionalintelligenceinawaythatanybodycanlearnandmaster.Youcancomein,andsay,"Ijustgotdivorced,andIhaveotherwisebeencodingPythonwhateverinacubicleforadecade.WhatdoIdo?"

Wecancomein,andsay,"okay,let'sfixyournon-verbalcommunication,yourbodylanguage.Let'steachyouhowtoreaditinothers.Let'steachyoupropereyecontact,vocaltonality."Idon'tjustmeanreallybasicstuff.Wecanteachthat,butsomeoftheguysthatcomeliketheSpecialForcesguys,thosearethecommandingpresences.They'reherebecausetheywanttobehumanizethemselvestoanenemy,reallygetpeopletolikeandtrustthem,leadpeoplequitepossiblytotheirdeathbybeingcharismaticenoughtogenerateastrongconnection.That'sthesameskillsettunedto11insteadof4.

Dave: Oneofthethingsthatintriguesmehereisyoutalkabouttrainingconfidenceorbuildingconfidence.Imeanisconfidencealearnedskillatall?

Jordan: Yes.

Dave: Isitsomethingthat'sanintegralpartofyou?

Jordan: No.That'sagreatquestion.That'sthething.Nobody'sbornwithit.Sometimes,peoplego,"well,that'snottruebecauseIknowyoungpeoplethat...Youknow.Mybrotherwasalwaysconfidentgrowingup.Now,hestillis."Well,here'sthething.Somepeoplearebornintoenvironmentsorcreateenvironmentsaroundthematyoungerageswhereconfidencemakessense.Wetakeourmindsetslargelyfromofcourse,ourselves,butalsoexternalcircumstances.Ifyou'reyoung,andyoulovesciencefiction,andyoudon'tlikegoingoutsidetoplaybecauseyou'resmallerthantheotherkids,you'regoingtogrowupfeelinglike,"wow,socialinteractioniskindofpainful,"becauseyougotbullied.Youdon'tlikeit.Beingalonemakesyoufeelsafe.Thattypeofthing.Then,yougetoutintotheworkingworldwhereitmatterswhoyouknow.You'relike,"Idon'twanttohavetogettoknownewpeopleallthetime.Iwanttoisolateandcodebymyselfandpluginheadphonesandworkinanofficewithafewpeopleorworkfromhome."Ofcoursethere'ssomegeneticaspectstothis,butmostofitisenvironment.

Now,ontheotherhand,youmighthavehadabrotherwhowashalfafoottallerthanyouandweighed50poundsmore,andhe'sreallygoodatsports.Imeanjustprettymucheverythinghetried,henailedit.Hewasn'tthatgreatinschool,butitdidn'tmatterbecausewedon'tprizethat


13

askidsinAmerica.Weprizeathleticprowess,andsohebecamethecoolestkid.Everybodywantedtobehisfriend.Hestartedgettingusedtosocialinteractions,parties,girls,attentionfromtheoppositesex,dealingwithauthorityinthewaythatonlyheknewhow,whichwaslike,"whatever,bro.I'mcooleverywhereelse.Idon'tcareifthethirdgradeteacherthinksI'matrouble-maker."Thatguyturnedouttobeprettydamnconfidentbecausenoneofthepainofsocialinteractionisassociated.Hedoesn'tassociateanyofthatstuff,right?Eventhoughyougrewupinthesamehouse,youhavevastlydifferentfeedbackasakid.That'swhatcreatesthosecomplexesbecausealittleemotionalwound,oralittleemotionalseedasayoungpersongrowsintoanentirelycomplexdifferentsetofbeliefsasanadultandasayoungpersonforthatmatter,aswell.

Oneofthethingsthatwe'llteachattheArtofCharmisyourbeliefsinfluenceyouractions,whichinfluenceyourresults.Youcan'tjust...It'slikethepick-upguys.Youcan'tjustpretendtobethiscoolguy,andthensuddenly,everybodylikesyouandtreatsyoudifferentlybecauseyoudon'tbelieveit.You'llself-sabotage.Itwon'twork,butifwecanchangeyourmindsetstosomethingthatisworkingforyou,yourbodylanguage,allthosenon-verbalswillnaturallyfallintoplace.Thatwillinfluenceyourresults.Then,whathappensthenispeoplestarttreatingyoudifferently.Then,yougo,"oh,maybeIamthisconfident,charismaticguy."Afteralotofhabitsareingrained,alotofthingsareinternalized,peoplestarttreatingyoualotdifferently.Therefore,youstartlivingthepart.Youstartactingthepart.Yourmindsetchangestowherethatidentityshifthappenswhereyou'relike,"oh,Imightbelikeacoregeek,butI'mnotaninsecurecoregeek"becauseyou'veaddressedtheproblem.Nooneelseseesyouthatwayanymore.Youstop.Eventually,ifyouletitgo,youstopseeingyourselfthatwaytoo.

Thisisn'tjustlike,"whoowhoo.Meditateonthisgrasshopper."There'ssciencethatshowsourphysiologychangesthewaypeoplereacttous,justaswellasitchangesourmindsets,andofcourse,thatourmindsetsarewhatprogramourphysiology.Weworkonmanuallyaddressingmindsets,physiology,andofcourse,givingyoualotofexposuretothewaysthatthosethingschange.That'swhatbootcampis.It'sjustconstantdrillandexposuretostimulithatareprobablyprettyterrifying.Ivideotapeit,andgooverthetapewithyou,andsay,"thisiswhatyoulooklikewhenyou'retalkingtoastranger.Thisishowyousoundwhenyou'retryingtoconvincesomebodyofsomethingyoudon'tbelievein."Wedothatenoughfor6days,anditwillchangeyourmindsets.Imeaneverybodybreaks,right?Imeanit'snotsomethingwesayatAOC,butweshould.

Dave: Thepoweroffeedback,whetherit'sfromatechgadget,orwhetherit'sjustfromasystemlikethat,it'samazing.ItaughtattheUniversityofCaliforniaforseveralnightsaweekforlike4or5years.I'vegottonsoftime.I'mjustnotnervousinfrontofacrowd.It'slikeonceyou'vegivenenoughlectures,you'relike,"I'vegivenalecturewithmyzipperdown.Whatever."Itjustdoesn'tmatter.

Jordan: Yes,onpurposenoless,right?

Dave: Howdidyouknow?

Jordan: That'showyoulostyourjobattheuniversity.


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Dave: IthoughtIwasgood,andI'vedonealotofkeynotework.Then,Itrainedwiththisguy,Jerry

Weissmanwhowroteinoneofthemajorbooksaboutthis.Exactlythesameprocessyou'retalkingabout,butwhatyoudoonstage.Thisguyhasruthlessvideocamera,andeverylittlethinglike"no,no.Dothat.No.Eyecontact."IthoughtIwasprettygood,andthisguycompletelyupsmygame.Ittook4days,anditwasjustforwhatyoudoonstage.Honestly,someofthereasonthatI'msuccessfultodayisbecauseIlearnedhowtoprojectmyenergy,andI'velearnedhowtocalmdown.AlthoughitwasawholeanxietythingthatIdon'thaveanymore.Thatfeedbackloopiswhatreallyjusttookmefromprettygoodtolike...Youknow,I'mpleasedwithhowIpresentnow.IhonestlyknowthatI'mgoingtogooutthere,andI'mgoingtodeliverrealvaluetotheaudience.Doingthat,ratherthanonstage,butjustinone-on-one,actuallyisbrilliant.It'ssomethingthatIthinkisavalue.

Jordan: Excellent.Yes,Imeanitissomethingthatyoucan'treallygetanywhereelse.Peoplego,"I'lljustaskmysisteraboutthis."It'slike,"listen,man.Youhadyourwholelifetoaskyoursisteraboutthis."That'stheotherthingisthatit'sreallyhardforpeopletogetfeedbackthataren'ttrainedbecauseyoudon'tknowwhatyourespondto.Alotofpeoplego,"whatkindofgirlsdoyoulike?"They'relike,"youknow,tallthatarepretty.""Shortonesthatarecurvybutthin."Wedon'treallyknow,butwhenweseeit,we'relike,"oh,yes.That."It'sthesamethingwhenyou'retalkingaboutandtrainingsomebodyforthis.Alotofpeoplewillgivebacklike,"youknow,Ijustwantsomebodythat'sgoingto"...Well,I'llgiveadatingexampleforthatmatter.

IaskedmymomwhenIwasyoungerhowtomeetgirls.Shewaslike,"justbereallynice,andcomplementherclothes.Tellhershelookspretty,andstufflikethat."Youcanimaginehowwellthatworkedwithgirlsthatdidn'tlikemealready.Imeanthatwasanepicfailandreallyembarrassing.Shedidn'ttellmebecauseshewantedtopointandlaugh.Thisismyownmom.Shetoldmethatbecauseifshealreadylikedme,whichshewasteachingmehowtobeagoodboyfriendoragoodhusband.Shewasn'tteachingmehowtoattractsomebody.

Thesemechanismsarejuststartingtobeuncoveredevenbymodernscience,howthesethingswork.Imeanthere'sallthesescientificstudiesthatcomeout,andourAOCalumnisendthemtousallthetime.Therunningjokeis,"andsciencegets1%closertoknowingwhatweknowatbootcamp2yearsago,"orwhateverbecauseit'slike,"oh,whensomebodywalksthisway,andtheylookconfident,they'remoreattractive."Peoplefollowthemasaleader,andthisleadershiptraitisattractiveintheoppositesex,blahblahblah.It'slike,"well,yes."

PeoplewhostudyAOCprinciples,concepts,readbodylanguage,stufflikethat.That'sagiven,andwhenweseeitforourselves,it'slike,"oh,yes.Duh."Ifyoutrytomimicit,andyoudon'thavethemindsetright,peoplego,"oh,thatguy'satry-hard."It'slike,"well,what'sthedifferencebetweenthetry-hardandthenaturallyconfidentguy?"Theymightlook99%thesame.There'ssomenuancetherethat'snotmatching.That'swhatwetrainyoutodevelopbecauseIcan'ttrainyoutofakeit.Icantrainyoutodevelopitinyourself,butIcan'tjustgiveittoyou.IfIcould,youandIwouldbehavingthisconversationonmyjet.

Dave: Nice.It'sthewholeauthenticityandintegritything.Ibelieveyoucanpickthatupinotherpeople.Youhavetobevery,veryskilledasaconartisttogetaroundthat,andbasically,you


15

needtobealittlebitofasociopath.

Jordan: Yes,yes.Ifyou'reasociopath,that'soneofthethingswescreenforatAOCbecauseifyou'reasociopath,you'llpickstuffuponthefirstandsecondday,andthenwego,"oh,wow.That'snotgood."Becauseifyou'repickingupstuffthatquickly,chancesareyoushouldn'tbethereinthefirstplacebecauseifyoucanperfectlymimicandfakeeverything,there'slikea99%chanceyou'renotgoingtouseit.You'regoingtobeuptonogoodbecausethat'swhatsociopathsdo.

Iinterviewedoneonmyshow.Hewasanarcissisticpsychopath.Itwasfunnybecausehesaidthingslike,"I'mgladtobeonyourshow."Then,I'dmakeajoke,andit'slike,"oh,that'sfunny."Attheendoftheshow,ontherecording,Iwaslike,"sothosethingsthatyouweresaying,youweresayingthatbecauseyouknewthat'swhatIwantedtohear."Hegoes,"listen.I'mnotgoingtolietoyou.ItoldyouIwouldn'tlietoyou.Yes,Iknowthatyouwantmetolaughatthings,andIwillexactlywhatI'msupposedtolaugh.IwilltellyouexactlywhatyouwanttohearbecausetheresultIwantisIwantyoutosharethisshowbecauseyouthinkit'sgood.Iwantyoutoincreasemyimagebecauseitfeedsmyego.That'stheonlythingthatIcareabout."Iwaslike,"damn,Ineedashower.That'screepy."

Dave: That'sscary.

Jordan: It'ssoscary,andhewasveryopen,sopropstohim,he'sliterallyanarcissisticpsychopath.Imeanhejusttellspeopleexactlywhattheywant,andthethingisyoulookatit,andyougo,"man,hegetsgreatresultswiththis."It'sjustlike...youcan'tdoitbecauseassoonasyouorItrytotellsomebodysomethingweknowisjustpatentlyBSjusttogetacertaintypeofresult,andwhereweknowit'sgoingtohurttheirfeelings,thisthinginthebackofourmindkicksupandscrewsitallupforusbecausewedon'treallywanttodothis.Itmakesusfeellikecrap,butforhim,hejustgoes,"suckers.I'mgettingexactlywhatIwant.Thesepeoplearesoeasy."Hetoldusontheshow.He'slike,"humansaretoys."Wehavetoreallymakesurethatthisisbasedonauthenticityandintegritybecauseifnot,youjustrunsuchariskofdoingthingsthatareunhealthyforyourselfbecausegettingwhatyouwantisnotalwaysreallygoodforyou.Thatsoundslikeacliché,butsometimes,weneedtoworkonourselves,andnotworkonactuallygettingwhatwewant.That'sthepremiseofthewholeshow,right?

Dave: Well,yesifit'saclichéexample,butifyouaskafarmerwhathewantsahundredyearsago,he'slike,"Iwantbiggerhorses."You'relike,"actually,maybenot.Youhavetofeedthem.Wouldn'tatractorbealittlebitmoreinteresting?"Hedidn'tthinkofthat,sosometimes,doingthework,choppingthewood,carryingthewaterkindofthingteachesyouafewthings,sothere'svalue.There'svalueinwork,andthere'salsovalueinchainsaws.Yougottofindthebalance.

Jordan: Yes.

Dave: I'mstillalittleskepticalthatyoucanreallytrainconfidence,otherthanthroughlikeafeedbackmethodlikethat.Arethereexercisesyoucanshareontheshowforpeopleto,Idon'tknow,havebetternon-verbalcommunication,moreconfidence?

Jordan: Sure,yes.


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Dave: Throwoutsomeknowledgehere.Peoplewanttohearit.

Jordan: Yes,itabsolutely...Bytheway,itisabsolutelyafeedbacksystem.Allwecandoaregiveyouthe

tools,runyouthroughcountlessdrillssothatsomeofthestuffstartstogetinternalized,starttobuildhabitswithyou,sothatwhenyouleave,youcontinuetoworkonit.Wegivealotofsupportcoachingafterthefact,aswellbecauseno,youwon'tcomeintoaweek-longprogramandcomeoutbeinglike,"ta-da,I'mtotallyanewman."You'llfeelgreat,andyou'llcontinuetomoveforward,butyoucan'tlearnconfidencebecauseoftheprocess.It'sreallyaprocessofunlearningalotofcrapthatyou'vepickedupoverthelast35yearsorhoweverhowoldyouarewhenyoucomein.It'snotjustaddinglayersonyourpersonality.It'sasubtractiveprocess,notanadditiveprocess.That,unfortunately,takesalotlonger,andit'salotmorework.Youhavetobeveryopen,orit'sjustnotgoingtohappenifyouwanttocomeinanlearnsometricks.

IdohavesomecooldrillsthatIcaninthisformataswell.Oneofthethingsthatpeoplefailtorealizeisthatfirstimpressionsarenotmadewhenyoudecidetomakethem.Firstimpressionsaremadewhenyoubecomeableeponsomeoneelse'sradar.I'llputinadatingcontextbecauseIthinkit'seasy,andit'sfunforalotofguyslisteningandthegirlsaswellbecausethey'llidentify.Girlsaresittingatthebar,3ofthemor4ofthemorwhatever.They'rehangingout.They'rehavingfun,andthen,agroupofguyswalksin.Now,thegirlsturnaroundandseetheguyswalkinbecauseoften,womenareveryawareofwho'sintheirenvironment.They'veevolvedthatway.It'sasafetyconcern,aswellasasexualreproductiveconcern.Theguysarehangingout,andtheguysgo,"wow,thosegirlsarecute."Then,theguysgo,"alright."Averageguysays,"allright,let'sgrabdrinksandhangout."Theygo,andtheygrabsomedrinks.Theycheckoutthegirlsagainorwhatever.

Theygobacktothetablewhentheygetit.They'rewatchingsomebasketball,hangingout.Then,acoupleofthegirlsgotothebathroom,and1or2ofthemstayatthebar.Then,bythattime,theguyshadadrinkor2,andhewalksuptothem,andsays,"hey,whatareyouguysdrinking?"They'rejustlike,"oh,hey."Theymaybepolitebutnotveryopenorforthrightaboutit.Maybethey'reevenrudeaboutit.Theguygoes,"womenarereallytough."Well,here'stheproblem.Hisfirstimpressionwasnotmadewhenhedecidedthathehadenoughliquidcourage,andhewasgoingtosackandwalkoverthereandmakeithappen.Hisfirstimpressionhappenedwhenhewalkedintothebarwithhishandsinhispocketsorslouchedorwhatever,orevenjustaneutralfirstimpression.Notgoodnorbad,butthen,hewaitedawhile.Thegirlssawhimlookingoverintheirdirection,notdoinganything,pretendingtowatchbasketball,havingacoupleofdrinks.

Bythetimehecameoverthere,theyhadalreadydecided,"we'relessinterestedinthisguy.Hedoesn'treallyhavethisboldnessthatmaybeworkedandI'dnaturallybeattractedto."Now,maybetheydon'trealizethis.Thishappenssubconsciously,butthefirstimpressionwasmadewhenhebecameableepontheirradar,notwhenhedecided,"allright.Now'sthetimetomakemymove,"orwhatever.That'sacommonmisconception.Yourfirstimpressionisgenerallymaderightwhenyouwalkintoaroombecausethat'sjustgenerallywhenyoubecomeableeponotherpeople'sradar.Thisworksinbusinessaswell.Anycontextwhereyou'remakingafirstimpression,whichisgenerallyeverytimeyoumeetnewpeople.


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OneofthedrillsthatwegivethatIlovetogiveiseverytimeyouwalkthroughadoorwayforthe

next,let'ssay,arbitrarily,2weeks,becausewhatwe'retryingtodohereisplantseedsforahabit.Straightenupyourbody,sostraightenupyourspine,chinup,chestout.Notexaggeratedlike,"Yaaa”butlikeshouldersback.Yes,noneofthat.Yes,exactly,butjustuprightconfidentposture,stringpullingupyourhead,aswellasdownyourspine.It'sareallyconfidentposture.Chinup,smileonyourfaceisareallyimportantpartofthisdrillbecauseitmakesyouopenandengaging.

Ifyoudothateverytimeyouwalkthroughadoorway,andIdon'tmeanwhenyou'reatwork.Imeaneveninyourownhouse,yourbedroomdoor,yourbathroomdoor,yourfrontdoor.Ifyou'redoingthiswhennooneelseislooking,itstartstochangeyourphysiology.Itbecomesahabit,andthennexttimeyouwalkintoStarbucks,andyouseesomebodythatyou'reinterestedinorabusinesscontact,you'vealreadygotyourposture,yoursmile.You'realreadyalignedproperly.Literally,notchakrasorwhatever,butyourspineisliterallyaligned.Youlookgreat.Youlookconfident.Youlookopen.You'vegotasmileonyourface.Thisisengaging.You'renolongerthinkingaboutitbecauseifyou'retryingtoputonagreatfirstimpressionbythinkingaboutit,you'regoingtobesonon-presentandnotinthemoment.You'regoingtohavetomicroaprocess,everyaspectofyournon-verbalcommunication,whichis1:impossible,and2:certainlymakesitreallyweirdtoholdaconversationwithsomebodywho'sonlythinkingaboutthatbecausethey'reonanotherplanet.It'sweird.

Ifyoucanmasterthosenon-verbals,justmakethemaninternalprocess,notonlyarepeoplegoingtostart.You'regoingtostartfeelingdifferent,ofcourse,butpeoplearegoingtostarttreatingyoudifferently.That'sthebeginningofthepositivefeedbackloopthatwe'retryingtocreatewhenitcomestonon-verbalcommunication.Imagineifeverybodystartedtreatingyouasaconfident,upright,positiveguy,you'regoingtostarttofeelalotdifferentlythanyouwouldifyouwalkedinslouched,invisible,justcrumpledupintoalittleball.Imean,physiologyissohuge.

Now,ifyouwanttotakethattoanotherlevelafterthat,afteryougetthatdown,mostpeopleareterribleateyecontact.WevideotapepeopleattheArtofCharm,atourbootcamps,inourworkshops.Weactuallysay,"okay.Howdoyouthinkyoureyecontactwasduringthatinteraction?"They'relike,"itwasgreat.Itwassolid.It'sspoton."Wego,"let'sgotothevideotape."Lookingatthefloor,lookingatthehand,lookingatsomethingelse,lookingoutthewindow,andpeoplearealwaysconsistentlysurprisedbyhowtheydon'tsmile.Andtheyhaveterrible,terribleeyecontact.Whenwecanfixthat.

Youstarttobecomemuchmoreengaging,muchmorepresentandmuchmorecharismaticbecausethat'sreallyjustthecombinationofthosefactors.Thewaythatweworkonthis,becausealotofpeoplego,"oh,eyecontactisreallyscary."Iagree.Itcanbeveryscary,especiallyifyou'reusedtolookingatthefloorwhenyouwalkandnotlookingpeopleintheeye.Wesay,"allright.Afteryou'vegotthenon-verbalthingdown,lookeverybodyintheeyeforthenextcoupleweeksagain,justlongenoughtonoticetheireyecolor."Whatthisdoesisittakesthepressureoffof,youknow,"lookeveryoneintheeye,"becausethen,youeitherdo1of2things.Yougo,"uh,thisisreallyscary."Yougetweirdanxietythatmakesyoudosillythingsor


18

justlosefocusbecauseyou'retryingtomakeeyecontactand/oryoudothedeathstarewhenpeoplearetryingtobetoointense,andthey'retryingtobeintimidating.Theylookrightatyou,andthey'relookingthroughyoubecausethey'retryingtomakegoodeyecontact.That'salsoreallycreepyandreally[incongruent46:05]formostpeople.It'sbad.It'snotgood.It'sprobablyevenworsethanhavingpooreyecontactoroutthere.

Dave: Ineedtoworkonmydeathstare.I'm6'4".I'vealwaysbeeneitherfatormuscularorsomecombinationoftheabove.You'realreadythebiggestguyintheroom.Everyoneknowsyoucouldprobablykicktheirassbysittingonthem.Thatplusadeathstarereallywasn'taverygoodcombinationforme,butIdon'tthinkIhaveadeathstareanymore.Yes,it'salegitimatething,andwithoutfeedback,howwouldyoueverknowanyofthis?That'swhythisisfascinatingtome,butIwanttoknow.Doyouevergetpeoplewhoareinpermanentorsomebodypermanent,longtermrelationshipswhogothroughArtofCharm?Guyswithgirlfriends,guyswithwives?

Jordan: Yes,allthetime.Actually,around30pluspercentofourclientseitherareinlong-termcommittedrelationshipsand/ormarried.Ishouldsayormarried.

Dave: That'swhatIwasgoingtosay.

Jordan: One'sasubsetoftheother,nowthatIthinkaboutit.

Dave: You'reinSanFrancisco.Allthat[crosstalk47:04]thing.Whoknows?

Jordan: Yes,exactly,exactly.Thoseguyswillcomethroughbecausealotofpeoplego,"oh,Idon'tneedthis.I'mmarried."Then,there'sthatothersubsetofguysthatgo,"IneedthisbecauseI'mmarried."Myargumentisifyou'remarried,andyouthinkyoudon'tthis,I'mthinking,"soletmegetthisstraight.Sinceyou'renowinthemostimportantrelationshipthatyou'veeverbeenininyourwholelife,nowyoudon'tneedrelationshipskillsbecausesomebodysignedapieceofpaper?"It'slike,"let'slookatthedivorcerate,andseewhatthesuccessrateisofthispieceofpaperholdingyoutogether."Ithinkyouneeditmorewhenyou'reinacommittedrelationshipbecauseyourcommunicationmattersmore.Thethingsyou'regoingtoteachyourkidsmattermore.It'snotjustaboutmeetinggirlsontheinternet,orsomethinglikethatoratbarsandclubs.It'smoreofacommunicationsskill.

Yes,actuallyaroundathirdofourclientsareinrelationships,married,wantingtoputthesestuffintopracticebothintheirrelationshipand/ortheirbusiness.That'sreallywherethisstuffshines.It'sbecauseifyou'reinanykindofrole,salesroleorevenjustsellingyourselfbecausepeoplebuyyou,right?Insideworkandoutsidework.Nobodybuysaproduct.Theybuyyou.

Dave: Evenifyou'readeveloper,you'restillinsales,whetheryouknowitornot,likewhetherpeopletakeyourproposalforwritinganewAPIseriouslyornot.It'ssales,andit'sjusteasierforsomepeoplebecausetheyhavetheskillsorbecausetheygrewupthatway.Thatwassomethingthatwashardformetolearn,likethebesttechrarelywins.

Jordan: Yes.


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Dave: Thebesttechthatcouldbeexplainedbysomeonecoherentlyinawaythatmadeotherpeoplewithmoneywanttodosomethingalwayswins.

Jordan: Exactly.Imeanthinkaboutit.LookatsomethinglikeWindows,right?Nottopickonthat,butLinuxisjustobviouslysomuchsosuperior,andyetwhydoeseverybodyrunWindows?Well,atsomepoint,andIknowsometechguy'sgoingtoe-mailmeandbelike,"thisiswrong."Atsomepoint,theywerejustbetteratsellingthatdish,right?Theywerejustreally,reallygoodatgettingthatintopeople'shandsandbeinglike,"lookhoweasythisis."Linuxisactuallyeasier.Itdoesn'tbreakasmuch.Imeanthere'samillionthatarebetteraboutit,butWindowsisthedominantOS.EvenwithMacOSoutthere,it'sdominantbyfar.That'sbecausesomewhere,somebodytosay...PartoftheriseofAppleisbecausepeoplego,"hey,lookhowawesomeandeasythisistouse."It'ssointuitivethatitsellsitself,butyouhavetodothataboutyourself,toyourself,toyourproduct.

Igototheseconferencesallthetime,andpeoplehaveawesomeapps.Itellthem,"youknowwhat?Thisissogreat.It'stoobadyou'regoingtofailbecausenobody'severgoingtofindoutaboutthisbecauseyouneeded58minutestotellmehowthisthingworked.It'stotallygoingtobelife-changing.Thisotherguyhasathingthatdoeswhatyoursdoes,maybe10%ofit,anditdoesn'tevendothatpartaswell,buthetoldmein30seconds.NowIwantitin30seconds.Ifittakesyou30secondstoclosesomebodytogetthatlittleappandittakesyou58minutestoclosesomebodytogetthatbigapp,you'regoingtolose.It'sjustnotgoingtohappen.

Peoplebuyyou,theydon'tbuyyourproduct.Theydon'tbuyyourservice.Theybuyyou.Peoplebuythingsbecausetheylikeandtrustyou.Theycanrelatetoyou.Anybodywhohiresanybodyattheirplaceoftheirworkknow...Theycallthis,inconsultinginWallStreet,theycallit,Ithinkit'sthe"airportrule."Whatitis,isallthingsbeingequal.Becauseyou'lllookinsomeone'sresumeandyou'relike"eh,they'requalified."They'reoverthemediumbarofqualificationforwhateverpositionthisis.Therealquestionandthereasonthattheytakeyououtformealsandtheyreasonthattheyhaveyoutalktomultiplepeopleatanygivenfirmorcompanyisbecausetheywanttoknowifyou'regoingtogetalongwiththem.

Theairportruleisthis;basicallyallofthethingsbeingequal,whichtheyusuallyare.Ifyou'regoingtohiresomebody,especiallyforconsulting,theyaskthemselvesthisquestion:CanIstandthispersonifI'mstuckonalayoverwiththemfor12hours?Iftheansweris"no,"you'renotgettinghiredevenifyouhaveasterlingresume,becausetheyknowthatnobody'sgoingtowanttoworkwithyou.Whenyou'reinconsultingorlaworanypositionthat'shigh-levelprofessional,you'reworking12,14+hourdayswiththosepeople,andifthere'ssomebodytherethateveryonehates,itscrewsupeverythingandcostsmillionsofdollarsinlossproductivity,damages,allkindsofstuff.

They'vemeasuredthis,andtheyjustwon'thireyou.Noamountofmoney,noamountofbrillianceyoubringtothetableisworthhavingyouthereifpeopledon'tlikeyou,andsothey'lltestthat.

Dave: That'soneofthethingsthatmaybetheyteachyouinconsultingland,butmostpeopledon'tknowthatuntilthey'reprettyfaralongintheircareersiftheyeverfigureitout.


20

Jordan: Right,yeah.Ifyoustarthiringpeople,youknowit.Beforethat,youjustwonderwhyyou'renot

gettingjobs.

Dave: Yeah.That'sexactlyright.Now,there'sanotherquestionforyouthough.Youdon'ttakewomenon,right?

Jordan: No.It'sforguysonly.Thereasonforthatis,andyouknowthisjustbecauseyouknowalotofguysandwe'rethesameway,I'msure,atleastatsomelevel,ifI'mhavingyoucomeinandI'msaying"tellmehowyougottowhereyouarenow,"andImeanthebadstuffandshareitwitheverybodyandlearnhowtobevulnerableforthesakeoflearningcommunication,youmightdothatwithabunchofbrothersthatyoutrustafterhoursandhours.Ifyouthrowonegirlinthere,evenifit'smymaidcleaningupmykitchenduringbootcamp,wewillpausebecausetheguywillgo"Well,whenIwaslittle,myparentsdidn'tpayalotofattentiontome"andthenhisglancegoesrightovertoherbecausehe'sself-consciousandit'sreally,reallyhardtobevulnerableasaguy,andit'sbasicallyimpossibleifthere'safemaleintheroom.It'sevolutionary,we'renotwiredforthis,wedon'tlikedoingthis,andsowedon'tneedtomakethatanyharder.

Ofcourse,theotherthingsare,thingsthatmakemencharismatic,confident,attractive,theydon'talldirectlytranslatetowomen,sowehaveseparateclassesforwomen.Wehaveseparatecoaches.

Dave: Youdo?

Jordan: Yeah,wedo.They'renotbootcampsthatareresidential.They'redifferent,butwefoundthemagicformulaforguys.It'sthatwedon'tcoachwomenatall,wejustdon'thaveweek-longresidentialbootcampsforthem.

Dave: IwasgoingtoaskaboutthatbecausetheskillsaredifferentandIknowtheyhaveoldfashionedcharmschoolsforwomen.Idon'tthinkthat'sprobablygoingtoactuallyteachcharmbutyoumightputonalipstick,butIhavenoideawhattheydoatthoseschools,likeserveteaorsomething.Whatwouldbedifferentforawomanwho'slike"Ineedtoworkonmysocialskills."Whatwouldthedifferencesbebetweenwhataguywouldlearnandwhatawomanwouldlearn?

Jordan: Alotofitoverlaps,andofcoursetheconfidenceandthingslikethat,butitdependsonwhatthesocialskillsaregoingtobeusedfor.Fordating,unfortunately,theskillsforwomenarecompletelydifferentthantheyareformen.Inabusinessenvironment,they'relargelythesame.Unfortunately,that'sabuy-productofwomenneedingtotakeonalarger,moremasculineroleinacorporateworkplace.Unfortunately,that'swherewomenhavealltheseissuesbecauseitconflictsalotwiththeidentitythattheymighthaveathome.Thosethingscanstarttointerfere.It'sreallyhardforboardofdirectorsmomtocomehomeandbenurturingwifeornurturingmother,sometimes.It'sabalance.Peoplewhoarelistening,whoaredoingthatsuccessfullyknowjusthowhardthatis.

Asguys,wedon'treallythinkaboutitbecausewecanbetoughguyatworkandthenwecome


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homeandwe'reasoftywithourkids,butwe'rebasicallythesameguywiththevolumeturneddownalotoftime.Theskillsforwomenreally,reallydepends.Forwomen,they'remuchmoreadaptive.It'smuchmore"Alright,whatdoIneedtogivethispersoninthissituation?WhodoIneedtoberightnow?"It'smoreaboutchoosingyourroleinagivensituationforwomenthenformen.

Formen,weknow"Okay,Ineedtobenicetothispersonbecausethey'reakidandthey'regoingtocry"or"thisemployeewillrespondtothis."Forwomen,theyhavetoknow"Alright,I'mintheworkplace.Doesthispersonneedafootintheirbuttordotheyneedalittlebitofhandlingandnurturing?"Womenarereallyuniquelysuitedtobemoreadaptablethanmenareintheseroles.

Ifyou'reamid-levelorhigh-levelmanagerasafemale,youmightgotoyouryoungeremployeesandreallyshowthem,"Hey,listen,Icareaboutyourdevelopmentandyourcareer,I'mheretonurtureyouandI'malsoheretocrackthewhipwhennecessary."That'saskillthatwomenreallyshouldworkondeveloping,isknowingwhatroletobeatanygiventime.They'reusuallyreallygoodatit.It'sreallychallenging,Idon'tenvythatatall.Ithinkthat'sprobablyreally,reallyhard.Ifyougetitwrong,everybodythinks"She'ssuchahardass,shewantstobeaman"or"oh,whycan'tshebemoretough?She'snotcut-outtobeinthiskindofworkplace.Thisisfortoughpeople."It'sreallylose-loseforalotofwomenineitherinbothathomeandintheworkplacethatthey'retryingtobalancethat.

Theskillsaremuchsimilarforwomenbutit'saboutwhentousethemiswhatthequestionthenbecomes.Doesthatmakesense?Iknowit'skindofaweirdanswertothatquestion.

Dave: Ithinkitmakesgreatsense.I'vealwaysfound,ifIwanttogetstuffdoneinameetingincorporateAmerica,Ilovehavingatleastonewomanintheroom,becausetheguystendtodoalotlesschestbumpingandallthat.Ialsoknowabunchofwomenwhoreallydon'thavesocialskills.That'sprobablybecauseIworkedinSiliconValleyforsolong.It'sclearlysocialskillstrainingisjustfundamentallydifferentformenandwomen,andthere'sgottobeanoverlapinthevenndiagram,butI'mjusttryingtoputmyselfintheirshoesandit'shardtodobecauseI'maguy.

Jordan: Yeah,it'sbasicallyimpossible.Itreallyis.

Dave: Now,we'recomingupontheendoftheshowandthere'saquestionthatIaskeveryone,andyouprobablyheard,becauseyoulistentothisshow.Top3recommendationsforpeoplewhowanttoperformbetteratlife.Idon'tmeanjustfromArtofCharm,Imeanfromallthestuffyoulearned.

Jordan: Sure.Well,IthoughtaboutatonofdifferentanswerstothisandIfigured,okay,I'vegotthismassivelaundrylist,andifIhavetothinkofthetop3,it'sgoingtobereallytoughsoIdon'twanttobeallfancyandbelike"there'sthisoneuniqueonlinetoolthatyoureallyneed"soImightberelativelyvanillawiththisanswerbuthere'sthething,peoplealwaysaskmehowIamsoinsanelyproductiveandpartofitisbecauseIhaveanawesomeassistantandstufflikethat.TheotherthingisIreallysticktomycalendarreligiously.ImeanifIsentascreenshotandI


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coulddothis,ifanyonecares,butit'severy15minutesofmydayfrom8AMor7:30AM,becausebeforethatIliketohaveflextimetowakeup,buteverythingisscheduledallthewayuntiltheendofmyday.

15-minuteblockswithpeople'sphonenumbers,thingsstartontime,theyendontime.Peopleknowwhenthat'sgoingtohappen.ThereasonisbecauseIhavecrazyADHD.It'shardformetofocusifIdon'tknowwhatI'msupposedtobedoingatanygivenmoment.IfIhaveaphonecallthat'sscheduled,let'ssay,20minutesanditendsin7becausesomethingcomesuporweconclude,Igo,"13minutes,Facebook,oh,let'smakesomemorecoffee."I'malmostunabletoorganizerightonthespot.I'mgreatatthinkingonmyfeetbutI'mnotgreatatorganizingonmyfeet,ifthatmakessense.Iknewthatwasaweaknessofmine,andIseethatinentrepreneursallthetime.They'relike"Oh,Igottoworkonthistoday."Thentheydoeverythingbutthat.Theynevereattheproverbialfrog.Gettingacalendar,puttingimportantthingsonitandyourappointmentsandstickingtoit,whereifit'snotonthecalendar,itdoesn'thappen,andifit'sonthecalendar,itabsolutelyhappenswillbesomethingthatwillchangeyourlife.

Dave: Iloveit.Icouldnotdoubledownmoreheavilyonthatone.Iwasliterallycomplainingtomywifetonightthatshedidn'tputsomethingonmycalendarthatshewantedmetodo.I'mlike"Ifit'snotinthere,I'mnotgoingtoremember,it'stomorrow.ForGod'ssake,tomorrowmorningyou'regoingtoremember?"Ijustgotothecalendar.Calendarandproductivity,Ilovethatone.Thanksforsayingthat.Bytheway,noone'seversaidthatintheentirehistoryoftheshow.Thatwasawesome.Whataretheothertwo?

Jordan: It'sfunnybecausethat'ssuchaneasyandobviousone,andyetit'stotallynot.AnotherthingthatIthinkisgreat,andthismightnotbethegreatesttoolofalltimebutImakealotofintroductionsandusually,it'ssomethinglikethis;"Hey,canyouintroducemetoDaceAsprey

"Sure."

"Hi,Dave.I'mseeingmyfriend,JordanHarbinger.Ithinkhewouldbeagreatconnectionforyou,yourshow"andblah,blah,blah,alittleaboutDave,alittleaboutJordan.Youreaditandyou'relike"Okay."Ireallyhavenorealfeelforyouotherthanthat.Ijustaskforthatintroandyoudon'tknowmefromAdamIuseSoundCloud,andIstolethisfromourmutualfriend,JasonGaynardaswell.IuseSoundCloudandIrecordanaudiointroduction.I'mlike"Hey,Dave.ThisisJordan.Iwanttointroduceyoutomyfriend,Sam.Youknowwhat,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,here'salittleabouthim,alittleaboutme."Idon'tknowwhatitis.It'sahellofalotmorepersonal.It'salittlebithardertorefertoontheflybecauseit'saudiobutyoufeelike"Oh,I'mgettingintroducedtothispersonalmostlikeIwasrightinfrontofthem."

Youhearhowpeopledescribetheminthevocaltonalityandsomeofthenon-verbalcommunicationreallycomesintoplay,thatyougetasubconsciousfeelfor"oh,thisguygivesoffacertainvibe.Herelatestopeopleinacertainway."ImakeintrosusingSoundCloudinsteadofjuste-mail.Thathasresulted,accordingtopeoplethatI'veintroducedtoeachother,amuchhighersuccessrate,amuchhigherhitrate.Honestly,peopleaccepttheintroductionsalotmorewhenIdoitthatway.Ifyoumakealotofintroductions,andIthinkmostentrepreneursdo,andmostpeopleingeneralwhoarejustkickingassatlife,theydothat.Tryit,insteadofe-mail,try


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SoundCloud,orYouTubeforthatmatter.Keepitunlistedoryourchannelwillbesuperweird.

Youcanintroduceatamuchmorepersonalway,anditisawesome,anditreallychangestheimpactthatyouhaveonallofthosepeople.Theyassociateyou,becauseit'sreallyhardtogo"Yeah,someoneintroducedusviae-mailawhileback.Idon'trememberwhoitwas."Iftheyrememberyourvoice,they'relike"Ohyeah,JordanintroducedusviaSoundCloud,andthatwaslike3yearsago.Yeah,that'sright.Irememberthat,andhesaidthatyoujustgotbackfromIndonesiawhenImetyou.Whenwasthat?Ohyeah,2013.Gotit."It'ssuchabetterwaytointroducepeople.SoundCloudforintroductionsisdefinitelyoneofmytopsforsure.

Dave: Alright,yougotonemoreleft.

Jordan: Excellent.ThisisanotherthingthatIthinkhasbeenmandatoryjustformysanity.IhaveanapponmyphonecalledLine2.There'samilliondifferentsecondlineapps,Grasshopper'soneofthem.ThisisaphonenumberIcangivetoanybody.Iknowyouprobablydon'tjustgo"Hey,everybody.Callmeonmycellphone,"becausethatwouldbejusttimemanagementsuicide.Youhavetothinkaboutwhoyougiveyournumberoutto.Withthisapp,I'vegotLine2,youdon'teverhavetothinkaboutit.Yougo,"Yeah,here'sthenumberandyoucancallanytime."Evenifthey'reinAustralia,iftheycallyouat4:00inthemorning,itdoesn'tmatterbecauseit'soffatnight.It'sgothours.Itcansethours.

Youcangiveittosomebodythatyoumeetoncefor5minutesandiftheyturnouttobeaweirdstalkerperson,welltheydon'thaveyourcellphonenumber.TheyhaveaLine2numberthatyoucanturnthemoffandblock.YoucanblockinyourregulariOStoo,butyoudon'twantthemcallingyoufromdifferentnumbersandblah,blah,blah.It'sverydifferent.Youcantextwithit,youcouldturnitoffduringcertainhours.Ithasaseparatevoicemailinboxthate-mailsyouthings.Icangoonvacation,comeback,andI'vegotallofmyvoicemaile-mailedtomefromthatphonenumber.TonsoftextmessagesthatIcanalsocheckonline,andit'sbecomejustlikeliterallyhavingasecondphonethatallmeshesintomyonedevice.Ineverhavetothinkaboutwhohasmycontactinfo.Ineverhavetothinkaboutcallingsomebodyandthenhavingmynumberandthenwhat.

Ineverhavetoworryaboutmissingamessageoranythinglikethat.It'scheap.It'slike15bucksamonthandIthinkIcangetatollfreenumberfor,Ithink,likeanextra5.It'samazing.Itreallywillchangethewaythatyoucommunicatewithpeople,becauseyoudon'thavetopre-screenpeople.Youcanjustletanyonecontactyou,ifthat'swhatyouwanttodo.Ifyou'reonasalesrole,you'rerunningabusiness,youwantthat,butdamn,youdon'twantthemtohaveyourcellphonenumber.

Dave: Nice.Protectthenumber.Ihaveadifferentstrategyonthatfront.I’mjustbookedevery15minutesofeveryday,justlikeyou,butI'musually,becauseIliveonanisland,I'malwaysonSkypeoronthephone.You'regoingtocallmeonmycellphoneoryou'regoingtocoldcallme,it'slikewhat?

Jordan: Whothe"F"isthis?


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Dave: EvenifIknowwhoyouare.IwanttotalktoyoubutI'mrecordingapodcastorI'mtalkingtosomeone,it'slikemaybeyououghttoschedulethatcall.Otherwise,I'mprobablynotgoingtodoitbecauseI'meitherplayingwithmykidsorI'mworking,orbeingadad,beingahusband.Iguardmytimereallycarefully.It'snotbecauseI'majerk,it'sjustbecauseotherwise,thereisn'tanytime.

Jordan: Ithinkyou'reright.Ithinkitdoescomedowntoguardingyourtime.Theonlythingiswhenyou'refirststarting,Ithinkalotofpeoplearen'tlike...Ihadtogettime-nazimodedevelopoverafewyears.Itdidn'thappenrightaway.Whenyou'refirststarting,youdon'thaveachoice.Ifsomebodywhowantstobuysomethingfromyouandyouonlygetthatonceinabluemoon,callsyouat11PM,becausethey'reinAustralia,you'regoingtoanswerit.Here'sthething,itwilldriveyouinsane.Ifyou'remarried,it'sgoingtojustruinyourrelationshipifyoutakecallsat1:00inthemorningfrombed.Thebestwaytodothatistonotknowyou'regettingacall.

Dave: Yeah.Iputtheairplanemodeonatnight,andifsomeonewantstocallme,actuallythereisn'tawaytoreachmeatnight.I'msorry,I'masleep.I'llwakeupandmaybeI'llmissanimportantcall.Igotmysleep.Itwasworthit.

Jordan: Right.YouandIcanaffordtodothatIthink,butIthinkinthebeginningwhenyouhavetobeuberhustlemode,likethingswillblowupwithoutyouandburndown,andyourbusinessisgone,that'snotgoingtohappentoyou.It'snotgoingtohappentome,butifyouarebootstrappingandsomethingcrashesandtheycan'treachyou,andyou'vegotademointhemorning,welldangit,youneedyourphoneon.Butyouneedtohavecirclesoftrustandstufflikethat.Thisapphelpsyoumakethathappen.

Dave: Awesome.Well,Jordan,thanksforbeingontheshow.It'sbeenfascinatingtotalkabouttheothersideofhighperformance,likehigh-performancerelationshipsandjustowningyourownbehaviorevenwhenyou'renotawareofit.URL,Facebook,Twitter,whatcoordinatesshouldpeopleknowaboutsotheycanlearnmoreaboutwhatyou'redoingatArtofCharm?

Jordan: Ithinkhonestly,sinceyouguysarealreadywatching/listeningtoapodcast,justcheckouttheArtOfCharminiTunesorStitcherorwhereveryoulistentopodcasts.Ofcourse,ifyou'reoneoftherarefewwhostreamfromtheweb,theartofcharmpodcast.com,hasour300+hoursofstuff.WehaveanappforAndroidandappforiPhonethatstreamsandplaysittoo.Peoplecangetthatalotofways,butIwouldsaynotnecessarily"Hey,buythisthingforme."Imean,I'vegotsomuchfreestuff,consumetheheckoutofthefreestuff.Then,ifitstartschangingyourlife,whichit'sdesignedtodo,thencallmeandwe'llthinkaboutnextsteps.Ratherthanhawksomething,goenjoythefreestuff.You'realreadylisteningtopodcast.AfteryougetdonelisteningtoBulletproofRadio,gocheckoutTheArtOfCharm.That'sprettymuchit.

Dave: Gooddeal.Thanksman,haveagoodnight.Youcantakeyourshadesoffonceweturndownthelights.

Jordan: Yeah,Igottodothat.

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