unreivsed hansard national assembly tuesday, 22 …...oisd, which is the link between parliament and...

UNREIVSED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

TUESDAY, 22 MAY 2018

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PROCEEDINGS OF MINI-PLENARY SESSION – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

CHAMBER

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Members of the mini-plenary session met in the National

Assembly Chamber at 14:00.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER took the Chair and requested members to

observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 2 – PARLIAMENT:

The SPEAKER: Well, I guess it’s the right occasion on the last

budget vote to hear malibongwe [praise] from hon Steenhuisen.

[Laughter.]

Deputy Speaker, hon members and distinguished guests, good

afternoon. We are honoured to have in our midst today, members

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of the Mandela and Sisulu families; and we welcome them

warmly. [Applause.]

I rise to table the last budget vote of the 5th Parliament.

This budget is before us at an important time for reflecting

on the journey we have travelled in this term as well as

looking forward to the next elections and beyond. The

contributions of giants who led us, our beloved Tata Nelson

Mandela and Mama Albertina Sisulu, who were born a century ago

this year, loom large in our memories.

I clearly recall the 9th of May 1994, as the nation and the

world, watched Ma Sisulu proudly nominating Madiba as the

first President of a free South Africa, a day which finally

fulfilled the promise of the Freedom Charter that “the People

Shall Govern!”

As a new nation that is still emerging, it is incumbent upon

us, to remember and honour the path chartered by Madiba, Ma

Sisulu, Mama Winnie Mandela, Zola Skweyiya and others so that

future generations could live in dignity and everyone could

have the opportunity to realise their potential. Our

Parliament is part of their legacy. We have lost the

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opportunity to be physically with them, to be guided by their

passion and insight, but their wisdom will steer us on

forever.

Hon members, as we work through the last year of the 5the

Parliament, we are called upon to reflect on where we find

ourselves as a country relative to the many goals we have set

for ourselves, in our Constitution, the National Development

Plan, NDP, and our Strategic Plan.

I can say without fear of contradiction that in this term,

some lasting results were achieved in a number of areas. As

the High-Level Panel Report asserts, while we still face the

systemic challenges of undoing the socio-economic legacy of

apartheid, we must also take pride in our remarkable

achievements and milestones including a functioning democracy

with credible institutions of governance, based on a culture

of human rights and most importantly, the Will of the People!

Of course, much more must be done.

Our democracy still needs to fine tune the transition between

the change of leadership in the leading political party and

government. The beginning of 2018 was a bit bumpy because of

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this. President Cyril Ramaphosa had been elected in December

as President of the ANC. We had to delay the State of the

Nation Address to finalise some procedures before we could go

on to SONA.

Hon members will recall that 10 years ago we experienced a

similar hitch though it differed in the detail. As the

Speaker, I appreciate the effort and co-operative spirit of

the leadership of the Presidency and the Office of the Chief

Justice in working well with the Presiding Officers to ensure

the final resolution of matters for all of South Africa. Our

democracy is growing and maturing. We use our Constitutional

institutions, not violence to settle our issues or

differences.

The relationship between the three arms of state by its very

nature can be characterised as dynamic and robust. During this

term, the Heads of the three arms have met on several

occasions to consciously cultivate an understanding of each

other’s roles and challenges. We are bound together in an on-

going shared endeavour and working relationship to realise

clean governance, deepening and further developing our

democracy. We have agreed that when next we meet at this level

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we shall bring along delegations in order to broaden the

dialogues, with a view to foster deeper understandings of our

respective branches, but conscious, not to intrude on each

other’s competences.

Hon members, at the start of the term in 2014, we crafted a

Strategic Plan for our goals and objectives to be realised as

we build an effective people’s Parliament that is responsive

to the needs of our people. We resolved, among other things,

to strengthen our performance and efficiency at law-making and

oversight, to deepen public participation, and to improve and

expand the administrative services available to members.

Notwithstanding our challenges, we have made significant

strides in each of these areas.

This being Parliament’s Budget Vote, it is prudent that I

begin by first commending the institution for the clean audits

it has been receiving for the 2014-15, 2015-16 and 2016-17

financial years. [Applause.] Please go ahead and applaud.

[Applause.] This was a result of improved implementation of

effective and efficient internal control systems.

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With respect to our Legislative functions, and with the

assistance of Parliament’s Legal Service Office, we have

passed 74 bills emanating from the executive and 12 Private

Members Bills. There are though quite a number of bills still

before us. Amongst these were the Labour Laws Amendment Bill,

a Private Members Bill introduced by hon Dudley of the ACDP,

which addressed parental leave and proposes equal treatment

for all. Considering the legislative workload, we need to

consider how we reinforce the advisory and drafting services

available to members and committees. As legal drafting is a

scarce skill, Parliament should review the package offered to

attract and retain legal experts.

Another high point for the Assembly was the adoption of

legislation to regulate funding for political parties. The

manner and transparency of funding are paramount in the

context of building public confidence and integrity in the

political system. We have agreed with the Executive through

the Leader of Government Business that legislation must reach

us by no later than 30 May 2018.

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House Chairperson Frolick will share further details on the

action plan intended to process legislation by committees

within the remainder of the term.

I hasten to say, however, that the number of bills passed is

only one indicator of our performance and, as such, must be

weighed against the quality of our engagements and the impact

of the laws themselves on the ground.

Honourable Members, as the High-Level Panel Report and our

oversight activities highlight, despite very good legislation,

implementation remains our Achilles heel. As Parliament, it is

our duty to step up our monitoring and evaluation function in

pursuance of our people centred agenda. We must accept that

failure in service delivery does not just reflect badly on the

part of our government, but speaks also to the rigour of our

oversight and accountability measures.

Prior to our first elections, Madiba said that, “If there is a

single lesson to be drawn from Africa’s post-colonial history,

it is that accountable government is good government.” We have

done our best and lived up to our objective of becoming a

People’s Parliament. We have seen examples of excellence

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emerging, specifically with respect to Parliament’s oversight

inquiries and investigative capacity. The probes surrounding

corporate governance at the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC,

and allegations of state capture at other state entities have

not only brought to light some governance failures but are

also beginning to yield changes and action against those found

to be compromised in one way or another. We must continue to

build on best practices in the exercise of this duty.

We are also beginning to see improvements in the ability of

portfolio committees’ to oversee the budget. The appointment

of specialised staff to support Committees is yielding

meaningful results. Thus far, we are the only Parliament that

has the ability to amend a budget of the executive. We thank

the chairpersons of committees for their diligence and

commitment.

Hon members, it is unfortunate that while South Africa was

once an international model of best practice for gender

budgeting, we reached a point where the gender responsive

budgeting initiative fell apart. We cannot accept that we once

were an international model of best practice on this, but that

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we are now at a point where gender responsive budgeting is

only taking place in isolated incidents. [Applause.]

We must support the Multi-Party Women’s Caucus initiative to

re-ignite gender responsive budgeting and planning. By the end

of the 5th Parliament a policy to guide how budgeting and

planning from a gender perspective should be in place as part

of our legacy project. Committees in Parliament will not be

performing adequately if they are not collecting the requisite

information to review revenue projections and assess budget

appropriations in terms of their gendered implications. I

shall repeat what I stated last year: Gender Responsive

Budgeting is non-negotiable and I expect movement in this

regard. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER (Contd): Since the establishment of the

Parliamentary Budget Office, Parliament’s ability to engage

with, and interrogate, both budgets and budgetary outcomes has

been significantly elevated. We must continue to build the

support available to committees so that they play a proactive

role in the budget process as envisaged by the Money Bills

Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act. We have

highlighted to the Minister of Finance the need for this

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Office to be funded in order for its support to be extended to

all portfolio committees.

We take this opportunity to remind the Minister of Finance of

the Office of Institutions Supporting Democracy. This Office

is part of the Speaker’s Office and has a large volume of work

which the Deputy Speaker will elaborate on.

The 5th Parliament has also appointed a new Public Protector,

Commissioners at the South African Human Rights Commission,

Gender Commission and other institutions. All these

appointments were, as recommended in the Kader Asmal Report,

subjected to public scrutiny and involvement.

Conceptual work towards standardising the appointment

procedures of the Institute for Social Developments, ISDs, is

underway. The Office of Institutions Supporting Democracy,

OISD, which is the link between Parliament and ISDs, is also

finalising a report on the proposed amalgamation of some of

the bodies as well as the proposed shifting of ISD budgets to

Parliament. The processing of ISD reports are also improving,

with at least 80% of ISD reports discussed by committees.

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Concerning the relationship between Parliament and the

executive, I should acknowledge that there have been some

efforts to address concerns expressed about the attendance of

Ministers in the House. Our work with the Leader of Government

Business, LOGB, is yielding good results in this regard and I

can confirm that practical steps are being taken to better co-

ordinate our work.

The Office of the Leader of Government Business has now

introduced a roster for Ministers to ensure improved planning

of diaries based on clusters. We thank the LOGB for his

support in this regard. Members of the House must be better

able to exercise due diligence and oversight over government.

Hon members, we are enjoined by the Constitution to work

collaboratively across spheres. A significant body of work has

been undertaken by the Legislative Sector, led by the Speakers

Forum, which is intended to, among other things, promote co-

operation, develop benchmarks, and best practice for the

sector.

The forum has implemented a number of initiatives to enhance

the capacity of the sector, including the introduction of a

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sector-wide oversight and accountability model and the Public

Participation Model. As members will recall, the work of the

High-Level Panel was also initiated by the legislative sector

through the Speaker’s Forum.

The obligation placed on Parliament to involve the public in

all its affairs has received sustained focus in the 5th

Parliament, with the introduction of the Public Participation

Sector Model, which emphasises meaningful public engagement.

Further adjustments, to the Model are expected in line with

the recommendations of the High Level Panel report.

I can report that, over the past four years, the institution

undertook 82 oversight visits and held 29 public hearings, out

there. There is, always room to improve in the level of

engagements with our people and communities especially our

outreach activities, to rural and marginalized communities.

Ongoing community protests in various parts of the country are

an indication that something is inadequate. We should ask

ourselves whether a fresh look or approach to constituency

work might help.

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As we provide more time on the programme for members to spend

in their constituencies, we must critically assess the support

to members in their constituency offices- and the interface

between constituency offices and the Parliamentary Democracy

Offices in the few provinces where they exist. This is a

matter that I would encourage the 6th Parliament to explore

further.

I am also pleased to inform members that the Speaker’s Forum

has agreed on the need for the legislative sector to regulate

and cohere on governance matters, specifically those related

to ethics and integrity. It is envisaged that a national

integrity commission will ultimately be established for this

purpose.

The Speaker’s Forum has also proposed the introduction of

Ethics and Integrity Legislation, as a contribution towards

building integrity in state institutions, mindful that there

is no single formula for resolving the often complex and

difficult ethical tensions that politicians face. This said,

as individual members, we must live up to the expectations of

the people and always maintain the highest ethical standards.

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I have been informed that congratulations are in order to all

hon members for declaring your private interests in

Parliament’s register last year. [Applause.]

As our democracy matures, new challenges emerge that require

reflection and review of the way we conduct our business and

how we conduct ourselves as public representatives.

At times during this term, the House experienced unprecedented

instances of disorder. It is our hope that this will stay

firmly in the past.

Since adoption, the new rules have since been applied, and

proven beneficial. Thankfully, the quality of debate and order

in our proceedings has certainly been improved.

Pursuant to a court judgment, additional work to give effect

to Section 89 of the Constitution will shortly be finalised.

Speaking of healthy debate in this House, years ago Ma Sisulu

cautioned that we, as public representatives should, at all

times be receptive and responsive to the needs of our people.

Notably, in the 5th Parliament 12 snap debates were held.

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The consultation process towards agreeing on how best to

accelerate land reform will benefit from the past weekend’s

Land Summit and we expect next weekend’s ANC National

Executive Committee (NEC) to take us even further. However,

suffice to say land grabs should not be condoned. [Applause.]

The world’s problems are deeply interconnected. Countries and

their citizens are exposed to economic crises emanating from

far away from them.

As the 5th Parliament we have assumed increased responsibility

in international relations. We continue to work with global

parliamentary bodies such as the Inter Parliamentary Union,

IPU, and Common Wealth Parliamentary Association, CPA, to

build a closer and more effective relation between

Parliaments.

We use the opportunity to improve our capacities to deal with

the challenges of our peoples and our respective

institutions. We are honoured that the next session of the IPU

in October 2018, will honour the centenary celebrations of

Tata Nelson Mandela.

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I wish to congratulate the new Members of our Parliament who

were recently sworn in at the Pan-African Parliament.

Similarly, those of us who are members of the SADC

Parliamentary Forum must continue to push for the forum to

become a fully-functional Regional Parliament. Note that we

are the only region of Africa that does not have a Regional

Parliament.

In the 6th term, we should consider the establishment of

friendship groups with a few parliaments, especially those

countries with whom we share values or those who stood in

solidarity with us.

Thirty years ago, the battle of Cuito Cuanavale, which is said

to have been the largest battle waged on African soil since

World War II, culminated in the freedom we are enjoying today.

Lest we forget, the Cubans fought alongside us at the most

critical moment and it was through their selfless efforts that

apartheid was finally defeated. [Applause.] It is for that

reason that I am considering an invitation from the Cuban

Parliament to lead a Parliamentary delegation to Cuba sometime

this year. [Applause.]

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As Parliament, we also have an obligation to stand with the

people of Palestine. We join the government and the rest of

the world in condemning the senseless massacre of men, women

and children by the Israeli government.

With respect to the proposal of relocating Parliament from

Cape Town to Pretoria, an external service provider Pamoja

(Pty) Ltd, has been appointed to conduct a six-month

socioeconomic and impact study commencing this month. This is

a matter that we will hand over to the 6th Parliament.

Since we started implementing the Financial Management of

Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, Parliament’s

budget is overseen by the Joint Standing Committee on the

Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures

Act, FMPPLA, which reports to this House.

I wish to thank the committee for its thorough scrutiny and

constructive guidance. I assure members that the decisions of

this committee will be duly implemented.

Parliament’s 2018 budget proposals are again directed at

meeting our strategic priorities.

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For the 2018-19 financial year Parliament’s actual allocation

is just over R2,4 Billion. We requested an amount of R2,8

billion from Treasury as budget estimates. We thus have a

shortfall R476 million.

Hon members must be mindful that the budget also includes

medical aid, and salaries of members, amongst others.

Parliament has a direct charge to the National Revenue Fund,

as a provision for member’s remuneration, which is a total of

just over R493 million.

Hon members, as we have highlighted during this term,

Parliament has continuously faced significant budget

shortfalls, which have direct implications for the performance

of our constitutional obligations. As the legislative sector,

we have called for a paradigm shift in the way the budget is

allocated and we are working to address this matter, by

amongst other direct engagement with the Minister of Finance

and Treasury staff.

We wish to report that, following a report by Parliament’s

Audit Committee, unfortunately, the Secretary to Parliament,

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Mr Mgidlana is facing disciplinary action related to, inter

alia, alleged contraventions of the Financial Management of

Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, Parliaments

policies, as well as the National Road Traffic Act. An

independent chairperson has been appointed and an external

initiator was appointed to lead evidence. I shall report to

the House on completion of the process.

Hon members, it is critical for Parliament to take care of its

staff and ensure that relations between management and staff

are as harmonious as possible. Regular engagements between

management and organised labour are ongoing, on a range of

issues. Two relationship-building summits between management

and staff were facilitated by the CCMA.

I have since learnt that staffs are happy with the

introduction of the Group Life Scheme for all Parliamentary

employees and their immediate families. This will go a long

way in bringing relief to employees and their families in the

event of bereavements.

Hon members, as we approach the sunset of the Fifth

Parliament, we do so cognisant that we have to reflect on our

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progress but plan for the new dawn. The Sixth Parliament will

continue the historic mission of transforming our society.

I have instructed the acting Secretary to Parliament to

expedite the finalisation of the legacy report of the 5th

Parliament. The Deputy Speaker has been tasked by the

Speakers’ Forum to lead the process of the Sector Level Legacy

Report.

I would like to say a word of thanks to all who enable us to

work and serve the people, and I want to start by mentioning

the most special man my dear husband ... [Applause.] ... and

members of the family, I want to mention our daughter Maghotso

and her fiancée, my colleagues, the Presiding Officers of both

Houses, the President and all Members of the Cabinet; the most

hon Members of this House; the Acting Secretary and the

administration and most importantly my own staff, led by the

executive director of the office. Your commitment and

sacrifices have enriched our legacy.

Hon members, our social compact with our people demands that

we remain true to our vision and the ideals entrusted to us by

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generations of our leaders. We salute Madiba and Ma Sisulu.

Their memory propels us forward, at all times.

I urge this House to support this Budget Vote 2. Thank you,

Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy

Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members and

our guests in the gallery, I greet you all. Today’s Budget

Vote takes place four days after His Excellency the President

Cyril Ramaphosa launched the “Thuma Mina Campaign” at

Ekurhuleni in Thembisa. This campaign is aimed at improving

service delivery and ensures the participation of all

citizens. As ANC members, we are ready to run. The African

National Congress has declared 2018, the year to celebrate the

centenary of its two struggle icons, Tata Nelson Mandela, the

global icon, the father of the nation and the first democratic

President of the Republic of South Africa. We remember his

vision of a nonracial society, in order to build a South

Africa that belongs to all who live in it, black and white. He

was the embodiment of our shared hopes, dreams, aspirations

and sense of a common nationhood. In him, we have a repository

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of all the best values and attributes that are necessary for a

new, united and democratic society.

We also celebrate Mama Albertina Sisulu, a great daughter of

the African soil who dedicated her life to the service of the

people of this country. We recall the great sacrifice she made

and the pioneering role she played in the struggle for the

emancipation of women. Allow me to pay respect to the two

fallen gallant solders of our revolution who contributed

immensely to the liberation struggle of this country. Mama

Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, the mother of our nation, the

fearless revolutionary freedom fighter, the epitome of

resilience who fought and defeated the brutal apartheid

regime. And also, Tata Dr Zola Skweyiya, a Veteran of the ANC,

a constitutionalist and gallant leader of our revolutionary

movement.

All these gallant leaders contributed immensely towards South

Africa’s liberation struggle. They have all left an indelible

mark in the history of our country. Our people will remember

their invaluable contribution to rebuild our country. As hon

members of this House, we ought to emulate their commitment to

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the struggle of realising the nonracial, nonsexist and

prosperous South Africa.

As much as the consideration of this Budget Vote allows us to

cast our gaze forward, towards completing this cycle of the

Fifth Parliament, it is also an opportunity for us to

critically introspect and assess the milestones, weaknesses

and systemic challenges that we have been confronted with

during the course of this current dispensation. It is an

opportunity for us to critically reflect on the transitional

arrangements that must be activated, in order for our work to

have a greater impact on the lives of ordinary South Africans.

In terms of section 42(3) of the Constitution, our mandate as

Parliament is to ensure government by the people under the

Constitution. This mandate we execute by providing a national

forum for public consideration of issues, by passing

legislation, by passing the budget and by scrutinising and

overseeing executive action. The constitutional mandate given

to Parliament by the electorate is also guided by the

following objectives: Increase and strengthen public

participation, to strengthen the oversight functions of

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Parliament and improve co-operative governance and expand

Parliament’s role in international relations.

As the vanguard of freedom and democracy in South Africa, this

national Parliament is hence constituted as a critical

mechanism, to advance South Africa’s transformation and

development agenda. Parliament is constituted to ensure that

we continue to reverse the effects of poverty and

underdevelopment, while creating a conducive environment to

enable inclusive growth. As a critical role-player, the

legislature must ensure that a platform for public dialogue on

issues of strategic and national importance is adequately

functional. Parliament must also decisively implement its

mandate as informed by the prescripts of this Constitution. It

must do so being cognisant of its functional role in the

context of a developmental state.

This Parliament must also be alive to the pressing needs

currently facing our people, while harnessing the available

opportunities to create a better life for all. This resolve

must find expression through the commitment to achieve the

hopes and dreams of our people. The overarching mission of

this Parliament must therefore continue to provide the people

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of South Africa with a vibrant people’s assembly that

intervenes and transforms society and addresses the

development challenges of our people. To this end, effective

oversight over the executive is critical. Furthermore, the

effective scrutiny of government activities to ensure that the

needs of South Africans are met is equally critical.

In its 54th elective national conference, the ANC reaffirmed

its position in ensuring that the legislative sector remains a

critical instrument for advancing people’s power and fast-

tracking the transformation of our society. The conference

also resolved that an assessment of the configuration of the

legislative sector, across all spheres of government must be

undertaken, with a focus on the efficacy and functionality of

the sector. This assessment must establish whether the

legislative sector is appropriately configured, adequately

resourced, optimally functional, and whether it works co-

operatively with other arms of state across all spheres. This

assessment comes at a critical time in the life of our

democracy. Its findings will allow us to reconfigure the

sector in a manner that will allow for seamless implementation

of the National Development Plan, to ensure delivery within

the stipulated timelines.

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Chapter 3 of the Constitution envisaged that the co-operative

government and intergovernmental relations must enable the

three arms of state to collectively work towards an aspiring

developmental state. Section 41(1) instructs the arms of state

to exercise their powers and perform their functions in a

manner that does not encroach the geographical, functional or

institutional integrity of government in another sphere. It is

behind this background that the Speaker of Parliament embarked

on a journey that seeks to mend intergovernmental relations

that might have broken between the three arms of state in the

past years. We therefore applaud the act of patriotism and

dedication shown by the Speaker, in working towards the

attainment of our constitutional imperatives.

This Fifth Parliament, through the Speaker’s Forum, as led by

the hon Speaker Mbete, moved to establish an Independent High

Level Panel led by eminent South African leaders. The panel

was established in order to undertake the task of assessing

the content and implementation of legislation that has been

passed since 1994. The panel’s mandate has been to review

legislations, assess implementation, identify gaps and propose

action steps with the view to identify laws that require

strengthening, amending or changing. The High Level Panel in

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its recommendations, identified gaps in some legislations and

laws that need to be strengthened. Key amongst the challenges

that have been identified by the High Level Panel is the

adequacy of inclusive public participation.

In trying to address this challenge, portfolio committees have

begun putting systems in place to strengthen their public

participation and oversight processes. The High Level Panel

has made a number of critical observations, which form an

important part of our transitional arrangements into the Sixth

Parliament.

Reviewing the Efficacy of Parliaments Strategic Plan,

Oversight and Accountability Processes in relation to the

National Development Plan as prescribed in the ANC’s strategy

and tactics policy paper, I quote:

The main goal of state transformation, is building a

developmental state that provides effective and basic

services with capabilities to take forward a far reaching

agenda of national economic development, whilst at the

same time placing people and their involvement at the

centre of this process.

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These policy principles are critical drivers in this people’s

Parliament and in the process to advance South Africa’s

transformation agenda. To this end, Parliament’s Strategic

Plan is a critical tool for advancing the country’s

development objectives in line with the above policy

directives. The interplay between Parliament’s Strategic plan,

the National Development Plan, NDP, as the overarching nexus

for development and Parliament’s oversight and accountability

mechanisms is therefore critical. In light of these functional

policy drivers, the role and capacity of Parliament as part of

the triangular nexus of the three arms of state, is an equally

critical feature in the resolve to bring about measurable

change in the lives of ordinary South Africans.

As part of our transitional arrangements going into the Sixth

Parliament, we must continue to find the appropriate

mechanisms to ensure that our oversight processes become

location specific and outcome based. Bearing in mind that our

Parliament is operating in the context of a developmental

state, we must ensure that our strategic planning processes

give effect to the most catalysing policy directives. Our

focus must be on conducting oversight over policy priorities

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that have the capacity to accelerate development and bring

marginalised communities into the mainstream economy.

It is for this reason that our perspective on the strategic

plan of Parliament must be adjusted, to enable us to view it

as a tool for effecting transformation. It must become a tool

that prescribes key processes that would make transformational

oversight and the implementation of the NDP a seamless

process. Until we are able to measure the length and depth of

parliamentary work and quantify its impact in the lives of

ordinary South Africans, then we are failing in advancing our

constitutional mandate.

The Fifth Parliament has by far seen the greatest shift in

terms of reshaping the character and institutional

architecture of our country’s parliamentary democracy. These

transitory changes have been viewed by some amongst us as part

and parcel of the process of a growing and maturing democracy.

These challenges have also in many ways hampered the

effectiveness of Parliament. We have witnessed a great deal of

intensity, particularly during countless occasions where the

rules of the House were consistently flouted, challenged and

often completely ignored for seeking relevance on the

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country’s public platform. We often saw deliberate attempts to

create anarchy and cause the House to degenerate into complete

chaos. This type of chaos often delayed important processes to

deal with agenda of the day.

If the rule of law, as set out in the rules that govern this

House continue to be flouted and undermined, it follows that

this is the example that we are setting to ordinary South

Africans in terms of their relationship and respect of the

rule of law. If the highest legislative body in the country

continues to flout and undermine its own rules, then we cannot

expect any sector of society to respect the authority of

Parliament when it exercises oversight and accountability. We

have found also that in protecting the interests of all South

Africans, a number of significant amendments had to be made to

the rules, in order to address the type of militancy and

aggression that this House has witnessed during the current

dispensation.

Persuasive debate in this House cannot be won by means of

character assassination, mudslinging or destructive

politicking. Persuasive debate is won through superior

arguments. This principle has sustained the quality of

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responses of the ANC in the Fifth Parliament, making this ANC

a unitary party which strives to bring together all disparate

views across South Africa’s tapestries and identities. In

going into the Sixth Parliament, let us exercise caution in

the manner in which we exercise our freedom of speech during

parliamentary debates. Let us not debate in a manner that

erodes the gains that we have made as a country.

The interaction of the Whippery with parties is a critical

component in the process of ensuring that we sustain maximum

participation and a balanced representation of perspectives in

the execution of our collective mandate. The Whippery has

played an important role in assisting us to find party

consensus in the management of parliamentary business. The

functioning of the Whippery is therefore at the core of the

effective political management of the business of Parliament.

In giving effect to the proponent of participatory democracy

in Parliament, our watershed negotiated transition from

apartheid to a democratic South Africa is a historical

milestone that reminds us all that the ANC has built its

leadership foundation on the bedrock of consensus building.

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In reflecting on the ideological collisions that have taken

place during the Fifth Parliament, we must reflect on the

narratives of debate that continue to be harmful to the

developmental and unitary agenda of transformation in this

House. Indeed, freedom of speech with its broad privileges and

limitations, has allowed many to use this platform to debate

from a perspective that seeks to maintain the status quo of

inequality amongst the people of South Africa. The unjust

regime of the past created a deeply entrenched system of

oppression, which was anchored in white supremacy and racial

superiority. Today unfortunately, even 24 years after the dawn

of democracy, this House has had to contend with the remnants

of that oppressive regime, which still find expression in this

House, which are often at a glance, disguised as compartments

of sophisticated opposition politicking.

Unfortunately, for the majority of formerly oppressed masses

in our country, the interests that are often defended by some

amongst us still seek to protect an ideology of white

supremacy and superiority for the benefit of a small,

privileged minority in this country. Parliamentary decorum is

not only about adhering to the rules that have been put in

place to govern the business of this House. Parliamentary

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decorum, if properly practiced, is about true respect for

others, expressed through genuine efforts to build a cohesive

and prosperous South Africa for all. For those of us who have

been at the receiving end of race based politicking, we can

identify the subtle tones, insinuations and connotations of

oppressive speech. We can identify the casting of aspersions

to our dignity, when it happens.

We can identify condescending and degrading forms of speech

that make subtle insinuations of superiority against us.

Although the battle ground is no longer in the trenches, we

are now dealing with a continued psychological onslaught and a

stealth resistance against the progressive policies of the

governing party. As we make plans to transition into the Sixth

Parliament, let us reflect also on the kind of political

parties that we are giving the mandate to speak on our behalf.

We must be careful not to give parties that seek to retain the

benefits made from the spoils of oppression, the mandate to

speak on our behalf.

I want to conclude my speech by paying tribute to the 14

members of this House who have lost their lives during this

Fifth Parliament. These are individuals who have served this

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Parliament and our nation at large, with great commitment and

diligence. They have collectively and individually made

significant contributions to the transformation agenda of this

country. Hon House Chairperson, the ANC support Parliament

Budget Vote 2. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, let me at the outset say thank all

the staff of Parliament for all their hard work and the

members of the DA really appreciate everything you do for us.

At our recent meetings of the Joint Standing Committee on the

Financial Management of Parliament, several concerns were

raised, in connection to the Budget. Of the 19 performance

indicators only 14 or 73% were achieved while 95% of the

Budget was spent and if draw down programmes 1-4, you will see

that there are 23 divisions in the Budget and fourteen have no

performance indicators at all and seven have one performance

indicator.

This makes it impossible for the committee to ensure effective

oversight over the Budget and whether taxpayers are receiving

value for money. It is unclear to the committee and the DA in

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particular how Parliament is actually measuring and assessing

its own outputs in the absence of performance indicators.

In addition, we still do not have a Treasury Advice Office

which has resulted in a potential conflict of interest where

the Accounting Officer and Chief Financial Officer are giving

the executive advice on financial matters when it is them who

should be being held accountable. So they are playing referee

and player at the same time.

Another concern is that when one compares quarterly reports,

it highlights inconsistencies by Parliament when reporting on

its performance as the annual Budget figures keep changing

from quarter to quarter, this despite Parliament’s Budget not

been adjusted during the appropriation period.

This is of great concern on two fronts, firstly it reflects

questionable practises with regards to the movement of money

from one line item to another and secondly it prevents the

committee from performing effective oversight over

Parliament’s finances. I hope when you do responded at the end

of the debate, you can share some light on this particular

issue.

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Another anomaly is that of the Women’s Conference which took

place earlier this year. The cost keeps increasing despite the

4th quarterly report showing no actual expenditure at all. So,

if one compares the third quarter report to that of the fourth

quarter, it shows that overspend of the conference spend from

102%-118% go without additional cent being spent. Here again,

we need answers.

In programme 5, R199 million has been withheld for political

party funding due to non-compliance by four parties in this

House, yes, one of which happens to be the governing party.

Now, the taxpayers should be informed as to the reasons for

non-compliance as it is they who are contributing to the

funding of political parties. If we expect taxpayers to fund

such extravagance and the least we can do is to ensure there

is a transparency and accountability for the taxpayer’s money.

The process of awarding the Parliamentary Budget needs serious

consideration and I am glad the Speaker refers to this, as it

cannot be that the Treasury, who is one of the departments

that we are supposed to hold to account and exercise

oversight, is the department that determines what Budget we

actually get. Again, there is a direct conflict of interest.

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There are many examples from across the world where the

awarding of the parliamentary Budget is independent from the

Treasury and one such example is Ghana, and as you will know

the whips went on a visit to Ghana to look at how Parliaments

are run and we learnt there that Parliament has its own

parliamentary board, independent from the executive which they

determine what Budget is needed by Parliament. The budget then

goes to the President not for him to reject or to reduce but

simply to sign-off on the Budget. The Treasury has not said at

all in the awarding of the Budget. This ensures that

Parliament is financially resourced and allows it to fulfil

its constitutional obligations.

Our current Budget has a shortfall of R476 million, resulting

in most divisions, having to cut their Budgets. If one looks

at programme 1 the difference between requested and the actual

allocation is R4,3 million, programme 2 the shortfall is

R16,7 million, programme 3 is R37 million and programme 4 is

an incredible R331 million this includes human resources, the

staffing of Parliament.

It is little wonder that many committees find themselves under

capacitated with content adviser and researchers being there

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which negatively affects their ability of Parliament to hold

the executive to account. In fact, the sluggish manner in

which some portfolio committees have dealt with the State

Capture issue has been blamed on the lack of resources of

committee itself.

Only programme 5 received its full allocation of R692 million

and not only did it receive its full allocation it had an

increase of R21 million. Why is this? Well programme 5

consists of two divisions: firstly, being Members Facilities

which includes our salaries and entitlements which sees a

decrease of just over one million, the second division is

transfers to political parties which sees an increase of

R22 million. How can this be justified when core services in

Parliament are having their Budgets?

A total of R455 million has been budgeted for political party

funding this year, this when we have departments across the

board and Ministers are here and they will know themselves are

having cut their budgets due to the fact of lack of fiscus in

the Treasury. This is resulting in front line services being

affected across the board. How honesty can we sit here and

approve this Budget, when, for example, the Basic Education

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Budget is being slashed by a staggering R7 billion. This is

when the Department of Basic Education is already failing our

children in preparing them for life after school. Many leaves

school without being able read, comprehend do basic

arithmetic.

In fact, the trend in International Maths and Science study

found that out of 38 countries, South Africa ranks second last

in Maths and last in Science. With regards to the progress in

International Reading Literacy study found that out of 50

countries, 78% of our Grade 4 learners are illiterate. They

cannot read for meaning in any language.

How can we in all honestly approve this Budget when the police

service is to be cut by 2 000 police officers due to Budget

constraints? This is despite the wave of crime, engulfing our

country at the moment. Yet, we increase the funding to

political parties. This, hon member is unethical and can’t be

justified no matter how much spin one puts on it.

I am glad that you raise the issue that we are the only

Parliament in the world that has the ability to amend the

Budget. So, let us use our power and amend this Budget.

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If there is a legacy that this 5 Parliament should be leaving

for the 6 Parliament is that we need to become more a

responsive and more caring Parliament that reacts to the

issues affecting the voters, instead we bog ourselves down in

debates that may make us feel important but have very little

or no impact on the day-to-day lives of voters.

For example, last week the latest unemployment figures were

released, which showed that unemployment has increased by

264 000 in the last three month. This swelling unemployment to

9,5 million. Where was the outrage from this Parliament when

this figure was released? Where was the outrage?

If you divide the 264 000 new unemployed people by 90 days,

you can actually work out what the daily unemployment rate is.

So, on the last quarter, everyday 2 933 people joined the

unemployment ranks. Where was the outrage from this Parliament

about that?

If that does not make you sit up and take note, I hear some

mumbling, maybe this will. About 65,7% of young South Africans

between the ages of 15-24 basically two third of them are now

unemployed while 43% of 25-34 year—olds are unemployed. This

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is a ticking time bomb that can explode at any minute. But

where was the outrage from this Parliament? No where.

Another issue highlighted last week by the Hon Mbhele, was

that of child murders and rapes, in a reply to a parliamentary

question, it was revealed that last year 39 828 rapes took

place in this country or reported I should say. That is nearly

40 000 and of those 19 017 were children. So, child rapes

account for nearly 48% of all rapes in this country, yet where

was the outrage from this Parliament about that? This

translates into at least 46 children being raped every day in

our country, but where was the outrage from this Parliament

about that?

In the same reply, it was revealed that over the past three

years, 2 600 children were murdered. But again, where was the

outrage from this Parliament about that issue? It means that

at least two children are murdered every single day in our

country, but where was the outrage from this Parliament about

that? And you know what, we also win the dubious prize for the

country with the highest child murders in the world, but where

was the outrage from this Parliament about that? I am here and

I am making noise about it and that is for sure. I am here.

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Where were you? I am right here doing my job. To make matters

worse, other parliamentary reply shows that the very police

units established of course and scrapped and the new was

established the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual

Offence, FCS, unit by this ANC government. The FCS unit that

are established to combat child abuse doesn’t have basic

equipments in which to catch perpetrators. There are currently

short of 18 000 rape kits and 43 000 DNA kits, but where was

the outrage from this Parliament?

We cannot continue having flowery debates in this chamber

while people are being murdered, raped or feel total despair

due to a belief that there is no future for them.

We need to be a Parliament that speaks for the people and not

to the people. We need to turn this narrative around and show

through our actions, our conviction and our principles that we

as parliamentarians do care about those that are currently

left behind no matter who they may be. Instead of having an

echo chamber that often leads to a race to the bottom through

division instead of unity, let us make this chamber into what

it was initially intended, the exchange of ideas no matter how

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robust the debate may be and no matter who the messenger may

be.

We have to ensure that we give meaning to the Constitution by

reflecting people’s anger, misery and hopelessness and turn it

into optimism, confidence and hope. I thank you.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chairperson, it is common cause that

Parliament’s two primary rules are to oversee the actions of

the Executive and to legislate. We should all admit that the

5th Democratic Parliament increased its level of overseeing the

executive largely because of the presence of the EFF

[Interjections.] but its legislative capacity is still largely

limited. We are going to speak about that later on.

We do not support the Budget as presented here because we

think that the oversight systems of internal parliamentary

systems are lax, their very weak and that is the reason

Mgidlana could easily still money of Parliament and enrich

himself and do all sorts of things, which we cautioned as the

EFF upon his arrival. You must remember that we were the only

party that rejected the appointed the appointment of Mgidlana

as the Secretary of Parliament. [Applause.]

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The issue which we want to highlight is that the arrival of

the EFF in this Parliament brought the necessary vibrancy.

Before the arrival of EFF there was no vibrancy, robustness,

no superior logic, there was no dynamism that got to define

any Parliament. It is only since the arrival of the EFF that

such was realised.

Let me just take you through what we have been doing since

2014 when we got here. In 2014 we tabled the motion on the

remuneration and conditions of mineworkers, to say that let us

set up an ad hoc committee to look into that. The ANC rejected

that motion. In 2015 we tabled a motion to say that let us

provide a budget for fee-free education for all students in

South Africa. The ANC parliamentary majority rejected that

motion. In 2016 we put a motion to say let us repeal all the

apartheid legislations that still exist here in South Africa.

We have got 2371 apartheid legislations that are part of our

system now - the ANC rejected such a motion. Why so, it is

because of what we said earlier today that the ANC is defined

by collective mediocrity, collective incapacity and collective

negligence and cowardice. It is what we have been dealing

with.

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We also requested this Parliament to invite the Public

Protector to come and address Advocate Thuli Madonsela, the

ANC rejected that motion. In 2017 we put a motion on

expropriation of land without compensation, the ANC rejected

that motion. In 2017 again, we put a motion on nationalisation

of banks and creation of a state bank, the ANC rejected that

motion. At least in 2017, one thing which was beginning to be

a shift, was that we put a motion to say let us have secret

ballot against former President, the criminal Jacob Zuma, and

for the first time as the EFF we were able to persuade members

of the ANC to vote against their own sitting President. So, we

are proud as the EFF that in this 5th Democratic Parliament we

were able to crack the ruling party separately in terms of

what happened in a secret ballot which we insisted should

happen.

On 27 February 2018 we introduced a motion on expropriation of

land without compensation, it was voted for by 74% of Members

of Parliament that were present, meaning that public

representatives, who represent 74% of voters in South Africa,

voted for a motion for expropriation of land without

compensation. What does that motion say? It recognises that

section 25 of the Constitution is an impediment to proper land

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redistribution and redress. It is what the motion that we

adopted here says. It also says that let us instruct the

Constitutional Review Committee to go and review and amend

section 25 of the Constitution so as to permit for

expropriation of land without compensation. It even say that

we must review other legislative instruments and the

Constitution itself to deal with the issue of land tenure and

it says that we must pay specific attention to the fact that

the state must be custodian of all South Africa’s land. You

must go and read that resolution that was taken by this

Parliament.

I think that as the 5th Democratic Parliament we must stay true

to our resolution and make sure that it is realised. What does

this mean? It means that ultimately the state must be

custodian of all South Africa’s land. It is the case in

Ethiopia. The Ethiopians state and government that represents

the people is in ownership and control of all land and those

who want to invest and do any other usage with land, have a

leasehold instead freehold. It is a case in Mozambique. In

Mozambique there is no private ownership of land. Seventy

percent of the land in China is owned by the state, 75% of

land of land in Singapore is owned by the state. These are

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some of the world’s attractors of investments. The land there

is owned and controlled by the state. Here in South Africa, a

portion of the land that is owned by the state is being

currently utilised on a lease basis.

The Department of Fisheries and Forestry will illustrate to

you that they lease the land for plantations and for forestry

purposes and take it back whenever is necessary. It is the

model we say must be looked into as part of the durable reform

programme that we are talking about. Also the Department of

Public Works is leasing land to different businesses in

different parts of South Africa. The dry port between

Mozambique and Komatipoort is leased to a company that is

doing business there and the state can always claim that it is

strategic need that they have to do that.

There are farms that are being owned by the state to be leased

to people because the colonial government in South Africa from

1814 has changed a discourse and made it to be freehold

instead of leasehold. By the way, even the colonial settlers

had implemented leasehold system from 1652 until 1814 here in

South Africa. It is the original component of communal land

ownership where there is no one who claims to own the land but

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you are given land use rights on the basis that you use it or

lose it. It is the resolution that we took as Parliament and I

think that we are going to make sure that it is fully

implemented.

The greatest this that this 5th Democratic Parliament should

do, when we get a motion as the EFF, we must adopt a motion to

rename Cape Town International Airport to Winnie Nomzamo

Madikizela-Mandela Airport. [Applause.] It will be the

greatest honour that we can give to our colleague. Whoever can

say what – Mama Nomzamo Madikizela-Mandela was our colleague

here in the 5th Democratic Parliament. Let us give here that

honour to rename the airport about her.

I spoke about the legislative limitations of this Parliament.

The EFF has since built internal capacity to make laws because

we have realised we cannot rely on Parliament. It is the

reason we have tabled the Banks Amendment Bill. It is before

the Standing Committee on Finance. We have table the National

Health Amendment Bill, which is going to make sure that all

clinics open for 24 hours. We have put the motion on the

nationalisation of the Reserve Bank because it is what our

founding manifesto says we must do. We are going to put

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legislation on the establishment of the Sovereign World Fund

because we know that despite having a resolution on the same

question, the ruling party has got no interest, no capacity

and willingness to could legislate on establishment of a

Sovereign World Fund.

We are going to have legislation on tax avoidance, but that

must be preceded by a proper Commission of Enquiry into

practices of tax avoidance, base erosion, profit shifting and

elicit financial flows in general so that when we put

legislation, it becomes one of the most impactful legislations

that will abolish such kind of happenings and save a lot of

money for the people of South Africa. We are going to put

legislation as well on making sure that all spheres of

government employ their workers directly. There is no need for

security companies and cleaning companies who pay workers just

a tenth of what the municipalities, provincial governments,

state-owned companies and national departments give to those

companies. We are going to put legislation in all of those

issues because we have realised that the movement, which is

going out of power now, doesn’t have the interest. It is

instead defined by collective incapacity, mediocrity and

cowardice. [Time Expired.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]

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Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, due to the lack of time I will

confine myself to Budget Vote 2 – Parliament, and some serious

issues which I trust hon Speaker and the executive team will

attend to. I am a member on the Joint Standing Committee on

the Finance of Parliament. There are issues of inconsistencies

in the way Parliament and Treasury approach the budget with

regards to reporting, yet we have not been able to get both

parties around the table. The executive authorities need to

deal with this challenge.

We cannot fulfil our accountability mandate unless reporting

is consistent with the required legislation. Parliament must

develop regulations in this regard on an urgent basis. Hon

Waters spoke about this. The executive authority need to

expeditiously appoint a Treasury adviser within their offices,

currently they are obtaining advice from the accounting

officer and chief finance officer, CFO, of Parliament, who

according to the Act should be accountable to the executive

authority, in essence, you are being advised by individuals

whom you should be holding accountable. Chairperson, with

regard to the constitutional review committee, as a Whip who

co-ordinates the activities of what is called 10 smaller

parties, I have written to the Chairpersons of the Joint

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Rule’s Committee with regard to membership on the

constitutional review committee.

Chairperson, we have heard that every member of every party

should have representation on that committee. When they go out

on site visits, it is important that every party has a

representative. I await some correspondence in this regard

from the hon Speaker to that request. Hon Hlengwa will not

forgive me hon Speaker if I do not raise the issue of the

parliamentary youth forum. He has raised this over and over

again. We have a women’s forum but to date in the Fifth

Parliament we do not have a parliamentary youth forum and I

hope we can get some answers in that regard.

Hon Chairperson, a significant piece of legislation passed by

this Parliament this year was the Political Party Funding Bill

which we - as smaller parties - felt will bring equity in the

way these funds are distributed to political parties. We just

hope that you, hon Speaker, can impress upon your colleague in

the NCOP that this Bill needs to be expedited. In this Fifth

Parliament there can be a new allocation of the same funds

that we have to provide some kind of equity.

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Chairperson, turning to some operational issues, I think

wellness in general requires a lot of attention by this

Parliament. We are all aware hon members that we have been

through a gruelling budget vote programme in the last few

weeks. We sit here for hours and sometimes go without eating,

surely we need to have places like well equipped gym which we

currently do not have here in Parliament, particularly a men’s

gym and the squash court is in a terrible condition. Our gyms

in the village are just structures with no equipments in them.

I think we must concentrate much in that area.

Hon Chairperson, the other issue that I wish to raise – which

I raised before – is a question of administrative support to

smaller parties. We as smaller party members debate on every

single vote. In fact, the IFP has come here on 40 votes and so

of some of the other parties and we don’t have the resources

to employ adequate researchers. I think something needs to be

done in that regard because if we want to be a parliamentary

multiparty democracy then we would make sure as Parliament

that we provide adequate tools particularly to the smaller

parties. This places us at a distinct disadvantage when we

have to participate in all these votes.

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As far as the parliamentary workforce is concerned, things

have been going pretty well but there are some areas which

require attention. Finally, there needs to be better co-

ordination between the National Assembly and the NCOP with

regard to programming Joint Standing Committee meetings. A

number of these meetings are stretched out and we don’t meet

because we cannot co-ordinate our programmes. Notwithstanding

the above concerns, the IFP supports this budget vote. I thank

you.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, the NFP supports the

budget vote tabled here today. Hon Chairperson, I have

previously raised the question on the issue of constituency

offices, office staff, fixtures fitting and etc whether they

do exist but nothing has been done, not monitored and not

evaluated. Why is Parliament not publishing a list of all the

constituency offices throughout the country as they do not

belong to political parties but is an initiative of Parliament

as a go between the people and the public representatives?

One example is a Democratic Alliance who does not have a

single constituency office but collecting tens of millions of

rands, yet nothing is being done about that. That is actually

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theft of taxpayer’s money. Minister, please take note, there

is no accountability by members of this House yet they want to

be called honourable, when some members sign in and leave

immediately without staying for the duration of the sitting,

including members travelling to Cape Town just to claim travel

allowances despite members not even attending their committee

meetings.

Hon Chairperson, Chief Whips went on an international

education tour costing something of about R4 million. What has

changed, absolutely nothing. I heard hon Mike Waters talking

about Ghana as a brilliant example but the behaviour of the

Chief Whips have not changed, in fact it is worse. What is the

purpose of sending them there? It is a waste of taxpayer’s

money and it is time to put a moratorium on all international

travels because it is serving no purpose.

Hon Chairperson, Southern African Development Community’s

Parliamentary Forum, SADC-PF, Pan African Parliament, PAP,

Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, and Commonwealth Parliamentary

Association, CPA, are also where taxpayer’s monies are being

wasted. I think we need to give this a rethought whether we

should be participating in these structures. The Country is

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burning with demonstrations, riots as a result of poor service

delivery but members of this House, who talk about fraud,

corruption, maladministration and wasteful expenditure at the

expense of the poorest of the poor are on this gravy train are

flying around the world. In fact, they have not even visited

their neighbourhood but they are flying to every country

around the world. It is time that we put a stop to it.

Hon Chairperson, let me give you another example, a very

important legislation on minimum wage which we were supposed

to introduce, both the DA and the EFF actually refused to come

and participate during the constituency period. Why did they

do that yet they come here and say that minimum wage is very

important? I can understand that the DA wanted nothing to do

with it because they wanted to embarrass the President of the

country who insisted that the minimum wage must be introduced

as a matter of urgency.

Hon Chairperson, they live in rent free houses, with free

electricity, free garden service, top class security ...

[Interjections.]

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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Hon Chairperson, hon Shaik Emam is

misleading the House. He is singing again for his supper for

tonight. Can he withdraw the name of the EFF because we were

in those committees? Can he stop misleading the House? Stop

singing for your supper!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Continue, hon member

that is not a point of order. Continue.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chairperson, they live in rent free

furnished houses, with free electricity, free garden service,

top class security, free air travel, free breakfast and

sometimes lunch, free travel! yet they are enjoying the

benefits but doing nothing for the community. The NFP supports

the budget votes. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can we now recognise

the hon Deputy Speaker. [Interjections.] Hon Deputy Speaker,

please, take your seat. Can I be guided as to what is taking

place before we continue? Hon members, order! Hon members,

thank you very much, can you please take your seats.

Mam’uSonty! Mam’uSonty! Order! hon members! Order! order, hon

members!

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Mr H P CHAUKE: Point of order, Chair!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Order, hon

members!

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chair! Chair! Chairperson!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I will listen to you

let me just first get this settled. Wait! Wait, hon Chauke!

Hon Chauke, wait.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, are you

okay? Thank you.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson! Sorry!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chauke ...

[Interjections.]

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson! Sorry! members! Sorry.

Chairperson, I want to raise ... [Interjections.]

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Ms S M KHAWULA: Point of order, Chair.

IsiZulu:

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M G Boroto): Ngizokubiza manje Mama.

Mangiqede ngo Bab’Chauke.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Chairperson, the issue that is now getting out

of hand and serious is that the threat to Emam Shaik must come

to an end. It cannot be allowed that these members of the DA

all the time they point at hon Shaik. Like now, they wanted to

assault him, it cannot be accepted! It cannot be accepted and

it must come to an end!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chauke, thank you

very much.

Mr H P CHAUKE: You can’t keep on harassing this member here.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chauke! Okay,

Mam’uKhawula, I will come to you. Let me respond to hon Chauke

first ...

IsiZulu:

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... ngizokubiza manje Mama. Mangiqede ngoBab’uChauke.

English:

Hon Chauke, I think that matter you know where it can be

placed directly so that it is being dealt with thoroughly.

Thank you.

IsiZulu:

Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, uyazi nginenkinga. Uthe uma eqhamuka

laphaya washo ukungikhomba ngesibhamu. [Ubuwelewele.][Uhleko.]

Ngathi ngiyeza lapho, wangigeqa ngonyawo ngawa. [Ubuwelewele.]

Manje ngifuna ukwazi ukuthi kusemthethweni yini na ngoba

kungenzeka mhlawumbe uthunywe uKhongolose. [Ubuwelewele.]

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M G Boroto): Kulungile, hlala phansi

Mama. [Ubuwelewele.] Hlala phansi! Hlala phansi Mam’uKhawula!

Siyabonga. Ngikuzwile ngizokuphendula.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Point of order, Chair!

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Shaik Emam, can I

respond to Mam’uKhawula first?

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Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you.

IsiZulu:

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nkk M G Boroto): Mam’uKhawula akekho umuntu

ongena nesibhamu kule Ndlu. Uma ngabe kwenzeke iphutha ngicela

sikhulume ngemuva kwalokhu. Siyilungise le ndaba ingaphinde

yenzeke. Ngiyaxolisa ngaloko.

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chair, just to set the record straight.

Mama Khawula wanted to hug me so much that she tripped long

before she reached me.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no! Okay. Hon

Shaik Emam, thank you for the love but we will address that

outside this House. Hon Deputy Speaker, it is now your time.

Order, hon members! Order!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much. I

guess members needed a short-break after an intense

presentation. I’m very glad to participate in this debate -

this discussion. Thanks to you Madam Speaker and Madam

Chairperson in her absence.

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As the leadership of Parliament we appreciate the leadership

you have given us your deputies. I also want to thank the

Chairperson here for allowing us to talk about this allocation

that enable us to register progress, having assessed the

challenges that faces us and therefore mapping the way forward

in the next period. Some of these elements have already been

spoken to.

The country has the responsibility to lift the most

vulnerable, the poor from the impact of poverty, inequality

and unemployment. Continuing gender, race, class and

discrimination are a blot on the progress we have otherwise

made

The resources that we have been allocated as Parliament

constitute and must motivate us to ensure that all of it, as

well as that which has been allocated to other government

departments generally, is used for what it is meant for.

In the event this is not so, swift, decisive action must be

taken to restore order. It is these actions, called for by the

people and the public in general and coming out of the

legislative sector and responded to urgently by the executive

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that will restore public confidence in the institutions that

are so critical.

Madam speaker, yourself and madam chairperson of the NCOP have

played an important role in the past year in positioning

Parliament correctly as a third arm of the state as you said.

Therefore, deserving of appropriate allocation to carry out

its mandate and to improve our collective understanding of our

roles inside the three arms of the state, and of course

improving the relationship between the three spheres of

government.

Increasingly, you have led Parliament’s diplomatic engagements

here at home and internationally. I disagree with hon Shaik

Emam, in fact, perhaps it is appropriate that we say that we

have to act, we have to know and act in our neighbourhood,

inside the country but in our neighbourhood here: Zimbabwe,

Botswana, Mozambique, Lesotho, and so on, without interacting

in those countries.

As parliaments of those countries and in the parliaments of

the world we cannot appropriately ensure the interests of our

own people. In fact, members and people from those countries

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regularly interact with us here in order not only to share

their useful experiences but we also go there for the same

reason.

The progress we made is dependent not only in our own

initiatives and strengths but also on the collective strengths

of other parliaments to carry out the objectives that we exist

as the public representative forum here.

We have to express also, Madam Speaker – in fact let me put

this that Parliament of South Africa plays and continues to

play a very influential role in this international bodies that

you have mentioned Madam Speaker, and some of them hon Shaik-

Emam has mentioned; to which we belong and pay dues.

Not only for purposes of co-operation on major issues,

including solidarity; the effective campaign for the release

of the Cuban Five was in no small measure and authorities

there acknowledge this; of the public international support

for that move, to ensure that people who are free deserve

their dignity out of the jails that were in arbitrarily was an

important one. It needs us every step of the way. They ensured

our own liberation.

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We have to express gratitude also for the support we continue

to have from some of these countries as well. Some of them for

an example through the EU we are running our programme of

capacity-building, paying for many of you members here to

study – to improve your capacity to engage on matters that

confront you in the work that you are doing here.

But also very importantly, in committees, the capacity those

committees have - that support is important. It comes from

citizens of those countries – who do it and agree that their

government must do it because of this solidarity relationship

we have had in the past.

They understand better, in my opinion and that’s why they

continue to support us in this programmes. Our progress is

dependent on firstly accepting our sovereignty but recognising

the limitations of that we do have that require the support of

others.

The work of Parliament is strongly supported by institutions

that support democracy, as Madam Speaker spoke. These do so to

catch things that fall between the cracks, so to speak. The

designers of the institutional landscape had in mind exactly

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that kind of function; and where they themselves do not

operate to their best ability, they are a subject to scrutiny

as this Parliament is as any other.

This past year has been an intense one by the office of the

Speaker to interact with those bodies. We also have on our

website – I hope members do visit it. We promise to improve

it. That this report can be found there to indicate the

contents and substance of these interactions critically,

internally because that’s where we thought we should begin. We

are finalising this report. It will soon be coming to

Parliament for consideration, and of course, referral to the

next Parliament.

Communicating the work of Parliament is an important one,

including on these issues. We regard this communication as

crucial, first by members themselves through our interaction

with the public; but first in our own political parties, many

of our members are not public representatives and though so

who like us are public representatives have an appropriate and

equal responsibility to communicate effectively to our

political parties.

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Political parties are pace setters. When they run their work

properly the society is happy and we are able to make the

necessary impact to improve the conditions that people would

like to see in their own lives.

Firstly, let us say that this communication is also dependent

on the capacity that as Parliament we do have. Institutionally

we need to support members in the work they do in their

Parliamentary Counsel Office, PCOs; and we are putting in

place a range of systems in place, which are already

harnessing the new technologies to enable members to reach

their constituencies but also to reach others outside with the

message of the work we do in Parliament.

We think we can do better. There are possibilities that exist

out there that will make it very possible. For an example, we

are currently limited in the Television that reaches the

majority of people because this is a space that is limited to

certain class of people.

We are in the process of negotiating a broader far more

extensive access by the poorest of the poor to television

coverage of the work of Parliament and soon we will be able to

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announce concrete progress even before we go to recess mostly

or just after that.

I would like to point out that this support that we give has

to be through as I said about the institutional mechanism that

we have here; and in the diversity of the media that we should

embrace in all official languages, progress is being made here

as well to increase the speed with which we produce material

here – Hansard, so that members can have it for themselves.

But also often, there are requests for recordings of what was

said in Parliament. We must be able to be responsive to those.

They are crucial mechanism for oiling our system of

responsiveness.

We are working hard to produce very soon – in collaboration

with other parliaments in the world, material and access to

members. In fact, just to say that because of our

participation in these other bodies that unites parliaments,

we have also produced master class on gender equality.

This is accessible to all Members of Parliament in which we

talk about the value of gender equality, of ensuring that

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paying men and women equally for the work they do in society,

is a big attack on levels of poverty and inequality in

society.

It will serve a very useful purpose in increasing the

purchasing power of families and thus the ability to live

better than they are because of this inequality in pay.

Parliament passed a resolution here and a Report of the

Evaluation of the Gender Commission and the committee in

Parliament that deals with women issues. That report,

especially in sports, should be agreed to and it was agreed to

unanimously here.

It is one part of an important piece of work that has been

done about which we have not cloud loud enough because we have

to oversee its implementation.

Ultimately, the goal here is to dramatically improve internal

communication so that members are in turn can communicate

better and respond better to the public in general and in

their constituencies in particular.

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We are glad, Madam Chair, that on the 31 May, the leadership

of Parliament has agreed that we should launch a mini seminar

series on the so called Fourth Industrial Revolution. This

matter requires urgent attention not only to play to the hype

of robotics artificial intelligence but to pay particular

attention to the impact in society this development is likely

to have.

The overall purpose also being what it is in essence, how

should we handle it to ensure its benefits accrue to the

majority of South Africans? How we deal with these threats

that some of these new technologies may pose for all of us.

For example, some jobs have disappeared.

Decisions have been made in these international co-operations

that operate globally to automate consequently almost

immediately those jobs in those headquarters but also in other

countries where the allocated jobs have disappeared.

It is not speculating about it. Warehouses are springing up in

the middle of Gauteng as e-commerce hit the ground. So some

jobs are being lost. Are those that are going to be created

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going to be enough to stand the tide of the impact of the new

technologies?

What we would like to inquire through this – some Ministers

have already indicated here during the state of the nation in

Parliament of their willingness and readiness to come and talk

to us.

So we hope members will come in there so that Parliament

exercises oversight on this important critical area. We are

interested for an example, to assessing the responsiveness of

our universities, businesses on building capacity and training

and retraining in cases of restructuring that is likely to

happen.

But also, the impact on jobs, which is one of the priorities

we have: the impact on men and women, on youth, on children

and crucially employment and careers in general. We have a

responsibility. All of the things that we do as we said

earlier on, is to ensure nothing happens, however fancy it

sounds to exacerbate the current levels of poverty, the

current levels of inequality and so on.

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So the budget that is allocated to us is an instrument through

which we interact with the executive to ensure that every cent

is used for purposes for which it is meant for. It is the

oversight and accountability responsibility that we have, that

should this not happen, urgent, decisive action must be taken

to restore order, to ensure that the people’s wishes of

lifting them from poverty and inequality happen urgently.

As your forum that represents the public out there this is one

of the most important parts of what we can do to advance the

mandate we were given all of us as Members of this Parliament.

I do wish to say one or two things. One of the revolutionaries

from around here once said: “Tell no lies, mask no

difficulties, and claim no easy victories.”

This, is an important observation in that, in assessing where

we come from, how we have done it, and why we were able to do

it so effectively, and what the challenges are? It is

important to be honest, to be frank and to present things as

challenges we must work on so that we don’t trap ourselves in

victories ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... by purities.

Thank you very much hon Chair. [Applause.] [Time expired.]

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Mr N L S KWANKWA [15:45:51]: House Chair, a simple question:

if you talk about this budget shortfall of approximately R470

million and you marry it with the point that was made earlier

to say, for instance, that there are inconsistencies in the

reporting mechanisms that Parliament uses and what the

National Treasury expects from Parliament, then how sure are

we if this amount is indeed correct, or is a true reflection

of what Parliament is going to need to be able to be effective

in its oversight mechanism and in its oversight role?

I want to make this point, because I think it is important

that we understand ... we have seen over the years ... we have

been reiterating this point: that these budgetary constraints

have a negative impact on the oversight function – the

oversight role - of Parliament. You have portfolio committees

that are not well-capacitated to be able to deal with

oversight work. In fact, in many instances in portfolio

committees when you compare departments and the capacity you

have in committees, it’s almost like a David and Goliath-kind

of system where portfolio committees or executives – members

of the executive and their departments – actually get away

with murder in many instances. Right? Because they are able to

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mask failures in a way that is not easy to detect for

committees because of the lack of capacity.

You have portfolio committees here in this Parliament that

give you material an hour before a meeting, and then you are

expected to be effective in your engagements with departments.

It can’t be. Sometimes you are sent e-mails at 12 at night.

Right? You don’t see them until you get to the committee

meeting and you are expected to be effective. And then we are

surprised or shocked when we have to come around and say, “No,

we must do a commission of inquiry ... we must enquire into

... ”. If we had properly capacitated portfolio committees,

there wouldn’t be a need for us to have all these million-and-

one enquiries that we are doing right now. Right?

We must address the root cause of the problem, which is a

capacity problem rather than to say that we are going to come

up with short-term solutions of ad hoc committees to enquire

into the same work that should have been done by committees.

Madam Speaker, I cannot understand, for example - I decided to

speak to speak in English to you today – that there is not a

single parliamentary paper that is in the vernacular. I don’t

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know whether I should call Afrikaans vernacular. There is not

one, but we have language practitioners here.

IsiXhosa:

Akukho phepha lemibuzo elibhalwe ngesiXhosa, ngesiSuthu okanye

isiTswana...

English:

... but we have people that are working here, right?

The other issue is ... Deputy Speaker, you keep on talking

about this channel for aid and accessibility of Parliament. It

doesn’t belong on a DStv channel if you want to be accessible

to our people. Why ... [Inaudible.] ... free-to-air so that

our people can watch us when we talk about Mqanduli, Nyamazana

and all of these places. [Applause.]

IsiXhosa:

Akufunekanga ukuba sihlawule imali kwiDSTV ukuze uMultichoice

abenemali eninzi ukuze bakwazi usibona xa sithetha ngeengxaki

zabo. Masingatyebisi amasela apha kuba bangamasela bona kuqala

kula macendelo abucala (private sector) qha bayathanda

ukuzenza ngcono ngathi. La masela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

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English:

We support this budget, Ma’am.

Mrs J D KILIAN: House Chairperson, members, Ministers, Deputy

Ministers, presiding officers present, colleagues,

parliamentary staff and fellow South Africans, at the outset I

want to thank parliamentary staff – those who are committed to

this institution and who very often work very hard for the

upholding of this institution.

This is indeed an opportune time to critically assess the

impact of the legislative arm of government during the period

of the Fifth Parliament and to determine whether our budget

allocation is adequate to support our constitutional mandate

throughout the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period.

As the ANC we have advocated for a true, people’s activist

parliament, where public representatives are rooted in

communities and in touch with their needs. The hon Carrim has,

on occasion, delivered a speech to the University of the

Western Cape. He said, and I quote: “One of the defining

features of an activist parliament is that it should seek to

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involve all citizens in issues of governance for better

service delivery and development.”

It is in this context that the ANC pays tribute to all

institutions of civil society and universities, including the

media, for their active role in recent years to remind us of

our constitutional obligations and to ensure that we exercise

the considerable power of this institution, that is: to hold

the executive accountable. Chapter-9 institutions and the

judiciary played a crucial role in compelling Parliament to

improve its oversight mechanisms and to honour our

constitutional obligations. Through social media and increased

access to ICT, the people who elect us will continue to remind

us of our role and our duties to root out blatant corruption,

to improve service delivery and to stop the abuse of power by

elected representatives.

The National Assembly, in particular the portfolio committees,

will have to work very hard to regain and to retain the trust

of the people of South Africa. The Constitution, in section

55, summarises the NA’s primary mandate – other members have

already referred to that – namely, to pass and initiate

legislation and to provide for mechanisms to ensure

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accountability of the executive. The National Assembly is

therefore constitutionally charged with exercising oversight

to ensure accountability, responsiveness and openness in

government.

Before we take our seats in this House we also take an oath of

office. We commit that we will obey, respect and uphold the

Constitution and all other laws of the Republic, and that we

will perform our duties to the best of our abilities.

Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng, at his most recent swearing-in

ceremony of new Cabinet members, also issued a stern warning.

Although he referred to the oath of office of Cabinet members,

the same principle applies to Members of Parliament, MPs.

Judge Mogoeng Mogoeng said, and I quote: You cannot read out

this oath as if it is inconsequential. This oath, or

affirmation, is going to judge you. It would not have found

its way into our most important document, the Constitution.

So, may we all be warned? May it judge, most brutally, any one

of us who are here for a show?

We therefore pledge obedience to the Constitution and, by

extension, to the National Assembly Rules which derive their

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authority from section 57 of the Constitution. I now see our

hon Chief Whip. I just want to correct the hon Waters before I

proceed. The ANC has accounted for all monies received from

Parliament ... the hon Waters is incorrect. If it had done it,

the next instalments would not have been paid out. [Applause.]

So, just to correct the facts before the National Assembly.

[Interjections.]

The Revised National Assembly Rules, Version 9, was adopted

after thorough deliberation through multiparty discussions in

the Fifth Parliament. It is a good document. The Rules make

provision for several oversight mechanisms and for the

establishment of portfolio, standing and ad hoc committees.

We all know that committees are regarded as the engine room of

Parliament. During the Fifth Parliament, the committee system

has really come of age. During, especially, the past 18 months

or more, the NA committees have used their constitutional

powers to call officials and Ministers to account. The hon

Frolick encouraged specific committees to investigate the

allegations of state capture within the parameters of the

Assembly Rules and also provided additional financial support

for those investigations.

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What we now need is better co-ordination between portfolio

committees and a follow-through between Scopa findings – or

the Standing Committee on Public Accounts’ findings - and

portfolio committees. Officials and politicians who are

fingered in allegations of corruption must be charged either

through disciplinaries or through the criminal justice system,

if they run away from offices where they are serving before

they can be called to a disciplinary. The days when people

could run away without consequences are over. You cannot steal

public money without facing consequences. The public wants to

see that Parliament exercises its authority and pushes ahead

with the necessary oversight over the executive.

The committees in an activist parliament should be further

strengthened and better funded. The Speaker has already

referred to that. We need more research capacity and we need

legal services. We need the ability and means to conduct

unannounced visits to service-delivery points. We cannot

simply announce that we are coming and the red carpet is

rolled out; we should actually have our subcommittees going

undercover and to see what the public is enduring. And I would

like to mention here – and the hon Minister of Home Affairs: I

don’t see him around – what I witnessed on Friday last week. I

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was standing in a queue and after all of us moved through the

one queue, the official behind the counter said, “You’re in

the wrong queue.” But there was no signage that it was the

wrong queue, and we had to just go and queue again in the

queue next to us.

It’s just unacceptable. The people were really complaining

terribly. That is the fact that we have to face as members of

the Assembly: that those issues are down there – not where the

Ministers can see, but where the officials are not fulfilling

their responsibilities.

Similarly, people are being sent from pillar to post through

the embassies when they need to renew their passports. One

official says one thing; another official says something else.

Sometimes it takes unnecessary interventions by Ministers to

just do the simple, ordinary thing: that is to provide

services to the people. Queues at hospitals ... the

distribution of medication ... We should go and see for

ourselves and we should alert the executive.

I also want to refer to the Rules which have been adopted and

which contain excellent provisions. The only outstanding issue

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is the motion for the removal of the President in terms of

section 89 of the Constitution, which will be concluded

shortly. But whilst all of us, I presume, prefer a lively

Assembly sitting to a boring, mundane, procedurally driven and

technical session, we have to reflect on some of the

unacceptable practices which became a feature of the Fifth

Parliament.

It is a relief that the serious disruptions of the House

sittings of the past two to three years are no longer,

currently, a regular feature. We are also grateful that the

Western Cape High Court finally ruled in favour of the process

that the ad hoc committee on powers and privileges followed to

discipline ill-disciplined EFF members. The court ruled in

favour of Parliament, and that is a very profound ruling.

However, there are some less spectacular but still

unacceptable practices that have become the new norm in

Parliament. These practices could be based on an innocent

misunderstanding ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Kilian, will you

take your seat please. Why are you rising, hon member?

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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: I just want to check, hon Chairperson. Does

the hon Kilian know that the reshuffle is done ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are you asking a

question?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: [Inaudible.] ... and saying EFF is ill

disciplined. She must just remember that we fought Zuma ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, that is

not a point of order.

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: [Inaudible.] ... to get him off, we got him

off.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Will you please take

your seat. That is not a point of order. Continue, hon member.

Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, this is the abuse of

parliamentary Rules that I want to come to. The problem we

must determine is: Are these really innocent

misunderstandings, or are they a deliberate political strategy

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to disrupt the debates in this Assembly? I would like to argue

that this is a political strategy and an abuse of the Rules.

Rule 31, for instance, rising on a question of privilege:

Members who are abusing that Rule don’t understand that that

Rule refers to your privileges as a Member of Parliament as

contained in the Powers, Privileges, and Immunities of

Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act and in the

Constitution. You can’t rise here on a point of privilege

because you want to address the House; it has nothing to do

with that.

Rule 66 is also being abused: member not to be interrupted.

We’ve just seen that now. Members are rising on so-called

points of order. [Interjections.] They don’t understand that a

point of order is confined only to a matter of parliamentary

procedure and practice. That is what a point of order is.

Misunderstandings. Questions. Are we allowing Parliament and

the executive to be used for research institutions? For

instance, certain generic questions that are completely

irrelevant are being posed and thrown at all the departments.

That is abuse of the parliamentary Rule on questions. Also, a

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question on the status and maintenance of the Irene post

office, which is a private property, was posed to the Minister

of Public Works. Why? Did the member not first do some

footwork in the municipality to determine that?

I would like to conclude by saying that the role of the

Whippery and the misunderstanding of the Leader of the

Opposition’s role are also, clearly, major problems. The

Leader of the Opposition is the leader in this House. That

doesn’t give him a specific standing in society in that he can

now call on the Hawks to come and present certain reports to

the Assembly, etc. [Interjections.] He should understand the

limitations of his role.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Kilian, will you

just take your seat. Why are you rising, hon member?

Mr S P MHLONGO: I wonder if the hon member can actually

explain to us: where was she before she became ANC?

[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member. Hon

member, that is not a point of order that you are rising on.

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What you must do is ask the member if she is prepared to take

a question and then, thereafter, if the member agrees, you can

ask the question. You didn’t follow that procedure. You must

now conclude, hon member.

Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, thank you. I was robbed of a few

minutes, but be that as it may. The training of Members of

Parliament really needs to be taken forward in the new

Parliament. I also want to say, in conclusion, that we will

have to be capacitated as Parliament to have a tracking

mechanism for consequence management.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time

has now expired.

Mrs J D KILIAN: Thank you. [Applause.]

BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 16:05 AND RESUMED AT 16:21.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): House Chairperson,

Deputy Speaker, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon members,

parliamentary staff in attendance, ladies and gentlemen. In

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opening my talk, I would like to quote the words of President

Mandela in a speech he made in this House on 26 March 1999.

It is in the legislatures that instruments have been

fashioned to create a better life for all. It is here

that oversight of government has been exercised. It is

here that our society in all its formations has had an

opportunity to influence policy and its implementation.

In brief, we have laid the foundation for a better life.

Things that were unimaginable a few years ago have become

everyday reality. And of this we must be proud.

House Chairperson, hon members, as we come to the end of term

of this 5th Parliament, I reflected on the meaning of the

words of Tata Rolihlahla Mandela on his last address in this

Parliament as the Head of State. He reflected on the work of

public representatives then. But his reflections are relevant

to us as legislatures today. As we celebrate his life during

this year of his centenary, we too, in this 5th Parliament, we

can say we have tried to fashion instruments to create a

better life for all.

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Through the legislation we have passed. Through Motions and

Questions to the executive, we have brought the concerns of

the electorate to this important Assembly. It is here where

oversight of the executive has occurred. Through our

constituency budget and members support, we have ensured that

our society in all its formation influence policy and its

implementation.

House Chairperson, hon members, my Constituency in Sekhukhune

District has felt the impact of this National Assembly. They

have been able to bring to our attention their concerns

regarding governance of natural resources in particular mining

and water. It is in this region where a potential for economic

growth can be realised in particular with mining and

agriculture being the drivers of the economy. However, House

Chairperson and members, it is in this very region where we

have had challenges of illegal mining. It is in this region

where mine workers lost their lives on their way to work, when

their bus was bombed.

In responding to these challenges, we have had a positive

response from the Ministry of Mineral Resources and the local

councillors who have been walking this journey with us since

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2017. We have had numerous consultations with communities and

illegal miners with a view of assisting them to mine legally.

We have engaged mining companies to release some of their

assets for use by small scale miners. This remains work in

progress, but we are positive that we will resolve it.

This issue of mining in our country and in our continent,

though known as the grandfather industry continues to be an

important sector of our economy. Its governance therefore,

remains critical. The role of our portfolio committee led by

Zet Luzipo must be commended for the work it has done and

continues to do in oversight.

Hon members, the story of Sekhukhune is not unique, it tells a

history of inequality that we have to confront if we have to

create a better life for all. We have to alter the negative

perception that where mining activities occur communities

become poorer instead of becoming better through the

exploitation of their natural resources. It is my hope that as

public representatives seated here, we will continue to

advocate for natural resource governance that put people at

the centre of development.

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The story of Sekhukhune gives us an insight of the work we do

amongst our communities during our constituency period. It is

for this reason, House Chairperson and members, I will submit

to this House that we need to advocate for more resources to

support this important work that we do as public

representatives. To compliment financial resources, we need to

ensure that the structure of our programme as this Parliament

is such that it gives us time for our constituency work.

Hon members, an effective Parliament requires us to build

capacity of each and every member. In the past financial year,

we have supported four committees through training relevant to

their needs and gave out 53 bursaries to members.

Hon Minister of Higher Education, you will be pleased that

since 2014, 142 bursaries have been given out to Members of

this Parliament. [Applause.] Twenty seven were research

programmes which have been completed, comprising of four PHD

qualifications and 23 Masters Qualifications. [Applause.]

I wish to congratulate all members from all parties who have

succeeded during this past years. Hon members, Parliament

requires that we support members in doing their work. One of

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the matters is the physical space as it has been mentioned by

hon members here in this debate, particularly for wellness

purposes but also for them to undertake their work

effectively.

The day in the life of parliamentarian is not fully understood

by a number of people. They engage with us as we debate here

in this Assembly. However, a lot of work happens in

committees. It is for this reason that hon members on your

behalf, we continue to engage the remuneration of public

bearers so that they can better structure what is due for

Members of Parliament.

Madam Speaker in absentia, I am not sure whether you are back

now, through this Parliament, we have nominated members to

serve in the in the Judicial Services Commission. As your

representatives, we have ensured that the transformation of

the judiciary is realised, amongst others, through the

appointment in the bench.

We are proud to say in the past year, seven female judges have

been appointment, and one of them as the President of the

Supreme Court. [Applause.]

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We have also raised sharply the issue of delay judgement

because in our view justice delayed is justice denied.

Hon members, parliamentary diplomacy remain an important work

for our Parliament in which we influence positions on global

governance. We engage in a range of multilateral fora guided

by our foreign policy of ubuntu and human rights. As a member

of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, we have been

active in shaping its policies and programme. This year,

August 2018, South Africa will be finishing its term of Office

as the Executive Chairperson of Commonwealth Parliamentary

Association, CPA, Africa Region. We wish to thank, hon Madam

Lindiwe Maseko, who has ensured that during her tenure, we

have resolved the change of status of the CPA from being a

charity organisation to a multilateral institution.

[Applause.]

House Chairperson, I am proud that the Commonwealth

Parliamentary Association, particularly its women's organ has

continued to advocate for increase women representation in

Parliament. I therefore, want to implore political parties in

this House to make sure that as we go for next year’s

election, they review their policies and strategies to ensure

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that we can increase the numbers of women to more than 50% in

this House come next year.

Hon members, this Parliament is a member of the Pan African

Parliament and has had representatives who have made

contributions towards realising its objective. Madam Ruth

Kalyan, thank you very much and Madam Memela for the work that

you have done in this institution. There is no doubt a lot

that needs to be done to ensure that this Continental Assembly

represent the views and the needs of its people. It must fully

undertake the role of advisory to the African Union and

develop model laws where necessary.

It must explore ways of working with regional Parliaments and

parliamentary forums where such are not in existence. However,

we remain concern about the accountability of the leadership

of that institution. We will ensure that in our turner, we

undertake work of reforming that institution so that it can

truly execute its work.

As I close, I want to remember the words of Mama Albertina

Sisulu which she actually ...

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, would you

just take your seat please.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon member.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, your time is not

completed. There is just a point of order that I am taking.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: House

Chairperson, I wish to know whether the hon presiding officer

is prepared to take a question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, are you

prepared to take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Yes, I am.

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Could the hon

member explain why only 147 bursaries have been provided?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you very much,

Minister of Higher Education. We have provided 147 bursaries

thus far, given the applications that we have received. This

is only the bursaries to individual members who have made

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their application. It doesn’t account for committee’s works

that have actually been undertaken through committees

training. I hope that answer is satisfactory. [Applause.]

In conclusion, I wish to state the words of Mama Albertina

Sisulu which she said during the 1987 rent boycott in Soweto.

I quote:

Women are the people who are going to relieve us from all

this oppression and depression. The rent boycott that is

happening in Soweto now is alive because of the women. It

is the women who are on the street committees, educating

the people to stand up and protect each other.

Today in this Parliament, we are witnesses of how women have

executed their roles as public representatives. Through their

engagement with policy, legislation and oversight, we are

better today than we were before. We owe it to our children

and their children to make South Africa an equal society where

women and men can enjoy and exercise their human rights as

equal citizens.

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I wish to thank you Members of Parliament for having kept us

on our toes as presiding officers even though at times you

have given us difficulty.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time

has now expired.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): As I close, I want to

thank my Co-Chairpersons, Queeen Boroto and the Juke of

London, Frolick and the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker, but

also our support staff. I thank you. [Time expired.]

[Applause.]

Adv A de W ALBERTS: House Chairperson, Speaker, Parliament is

an important and august institution wherein we, as

representatives of various constituencies, have a duty to

bring orderly debate and rational thought to bear, to properly

serve our constituencies as well as those people who did not

necessarily vote for us. Unfortunately, this Parliament has,

since 2009, started to descend into a new creature, not one of

noble stature and democracy, but one of disrespect towards

each other, in general.

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Afrikaans:

Die vlak van debatte word al hoe swakker, aangesien daar

eendersyds, nie meer ag geslaan word op wat ons vir mekaar sê

nie, en andersyds, omdat die paar minute wat partye tot hulle

beskikking het, meestal gebruik word om vernederende

skelwoorde na mekaar te slinger en in klankgrepe, ook bekend

as “sound bytes”, te praat. Die feit dat die ANC soveel tyd

kry om te praat, terwyl ander partye se tyd verskraal word tot

drie minute of minder, dra ook hiertoe by. Dis tyd om die

formule waarvolgens praattyd ingedeel word, meer regverdig te

maak.

English:

It is disconcerting that the invective among MPs now has

escalated from witty sound bytes that may even contain some

tongue in cheek humour, to outright name-calling, swearing and

threats to persons. Acts of overt racism have become the order

of the day. This cannot be condoned, and Parliament must

rectify its path to bring mutual respect back among Members of

Parliament.

A further matter that deserves attention is the oversight role

of Parliament. Parliament is constitutionally mandated to

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perform an oversight function over the executive and for an

important moment in history neglected to do, precisely during

the Nkandla-saga where the then President Zuma was protected

at all costs by members of the ruling party.

When the winds of change started blowing suddenly within the

ANC, it performed an about-turn and went for the kill in the

state capture matters. We are most certainly in agreement with

Parliament’s new-found focus on holding the executive to

account, but why was it necessary to get to this point via the

mechanisms of internal change within the ANC? This is not how

Parliament is supposed to function.

Afrikaans:

Noudat ons hierdie kruin bereik het, wil ons ’n beroep doen

dat die Parlement, op die minste, sal bly funksioneer soos

nou, maar tog dat daar ook nog meer noukeurig gewerk sal word

om die uitvoerende gesag verantwoordbaar te hou. Dit is in die

hele land se belang dat Parlementslede, selfs al

verteenwoordig mens die regerende party, hulle

verantwoordelikheid in hierdie verband sal besef en nakom.

English:

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Lastly, we wish to thank the parliamentary personnel for their

hard work and support in sometimes very volatile and abnormal

circumstances in Parliament. We also wish to advise that no

Member of Parliament may treat member of the parliamentary

personnel indifferently or otherwise with disrespect, as this

institution cannot function without you. When we express our

gratitude, we extend it to all the parliamentary workers from

the cleaning personnel to the librarians. We notice your hard

work. I thank you.

Ms D CARTER: Chair, during this Budget Vote last year, Cope

defended our constitutional democracy and Parliament in the

face of the treasonous phenomenon of state capture.

We pointed out that Parliament had failed in its cardinal duty

of ensuring that power was not abused, by not exercising over

sight and holding the executive accountable.

We contended that you had broken this fifth Parliament; that

Parliament, through your actions and inactions, had lost its

integrity, its credibility and moral legitimacy; and that the

outcome thereof, was that South Africans had been betrayed and

now lived under a tyranny, in a mafia state.

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As Prof Raymond Suttner has recently noted, in the early years

of our democracy, there was in certain quarters, a fear that a

coup would be attempted. As a consequence, some leading

elements of our security forces, retained from the apartheid

regime were removed, in order to safeguard our democratic

order.

Ironically, he writes, it was neither these people, nor other

members of the former apartheid regime or other right-wing

forces that undermined our hopes of a better life for all, but

scandalously, it was the actions of the oldest liberation

movement on the African continent that undermined and

imperilled our democratic project and our future.

Prof Suttner then questions as to how we ensure a return to

legality, strengthen our democratic life, and hopefully go

beyond simply returning to the way things were before the

treasonous Zuma era.

It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge how Parliament, as

a collective, has fought to claw back its role and

responsibilities.

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It will, however, take much more effort and consistent action

to ensure that Parliament regains its credibility, integrity,

and moral legitimacy.

Just look at the contempt, disdain and disrespect that have

been shown to Parliament and its committees by Ministers and

officials implicated in the state capture project, let alone

by the likes of Dudu Myeni, Duduzane Zuma, and the Guptas.

Cope supports the observations and findings of the high level

panel that we need a more activist Parliament that will ensure

effective and meaningful oversight over the executive; that

Parliament should consider the adoption of legislation to

ensure greater parliamentary and public oversight over

appointments to public office, as a means of ensuring their

increased independence; and that Parliament should play a

greater role in the initiation and development of draft

legislation.

For the sake of our democracy and constitutional order, we

need a better resourced Parliament. If we have a look, for

example, at the law state advisors, if we look at the staff of

Parliament, we are really underresourced when it comes to

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human resources. As matters stand, and if we are to give

effect to these recommendations, this Budget Vote is wholly

inadequate. In the circumstances, Cope calls for the review of

this Budget Vote. Thank you.

Mr A N MASONDO: Chairperson, hon members, guests at the

gallery and fellow South Africans.

Chairperson, 12 minutes is not enough to deal with the work of

the ethics committee and related structures, its implications

and steps that need to be taken to address all our complex

challenges.

Going back a year back can indeed be instructive. During the

debate on Budget Vote 2: Parliament, the Chief Whip of the DA,

Hon Steenhuisen, amongst others, though briefly, raised what

he referred to as a concern on the Ethics Committee for being

“efficient when dealing with DA matters” but drags its feet

when “dealing with the related issues”. He labelled the

committee as “captured”. That “it (the committee) even stop

meeting when looking at ANC matters”.

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But what is the reality? What are the objectives that

Parliament has set for this committee? What are some of the

key challenges experienced? Regarding the future, what

pitfalls should be avoided? These are some of the questions we

need to look at in an ongoing manner.

The Joint Committee on Ethics and Members Interest held its

inaugural meeting on 8 July 2014. Hon A Masondo from NA and

hon A Singh from the NCOP were elected as Co-Chairpersons.

On 17 September 2014, the committee adopted the 2014 Register

of Members Interests. On the 15 October 2014 a workshop to

familiarise members of the committee and ensure a better

understanding of the Code of Ethical Conduct was held.

In keeping with the tradition of sharing experience, the committee

has met and engaged with provincial legislatures and municipal

councils who do related ethics work. This include, amongst others,

the Gauteng and Free State Provincial Legislatures, the City of

Johannesburg (thrice), Ekurhuleni Metro (twice), eThekwini Metro;

the Secondary Cities of Mangaung, Buffalo City and Polokwane.

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Chairperson, this committee has done a lot of work in the past

four years since it was constituted as a Joint Committee of

Parliament made up of members of the NCOP and the NA.

Schedule 2 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa

in the part that deals with solemn affirmation speak of: Being

faithful to the Republic of South Africa. Obeying, respecting,

and upholding the Constitution and all other laws of the

Republic; and, a promise to perform functions as a member of

the NA and as a permanent delegates of the NCOP or as a Member

of the Provincial Legislature.

The work we do in the committee is informed by the

Constitution, Relevant Legislation and the Code of Conduct.

Our approach in doing our work is characterised by: Correcting

the behaviour of MPs and not being punitive; and, ensuring

that all issues brought before the committee are dealt with in

a way that is fair, firm and consistent.

The Joint Ethics Committee is there primarily to foster public

trust, seeks to improve public perception of Parliament and

all its institutions as well as that of MPs. In doing its

work, the committee seeks to also advise members and provide

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guidance, to investigate complaints and to craft and prepare

reports to Parliament.

Chairperson, on previous occasions we have raised the question

of ethics and revolutionary morality. In doing so, we had

sought to frame relevant questions of what in our context

members of this legislature ought to be doing to ensure

abiding credibility and good standing of Parliament.

Chairperson, we come from a tradition of anti-colonial

struggle. Our aim is to realize the National Democratic

Revolution. It is in this context that the Freedom Charter

adopted in Kliptown in June 1955 and RSA Constitution Act 108

of 1996 remain a lodestar that assist to refocus our minds on

the establishment of a National Democratic Society.

We need to remind ourselves that there is, in existence, a

wealth of Revolutionary experience and literature to help

enrich the work that we do. There is so much to learn from

Lenin, Ho-Chi Minh, Maotsetung, Fidel Castro, Rosa Luxembourg,

Kwame Nkruma, Samora Machel, Nelson Mandela, Albertina Sisulu

and many others.

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Whether we be members of mainstream or other Christian

churches, whether we subscribe to Judaism, African Indigenous

beliefs, Hindu, Islam or be atheist, we do need to acknowledge

that we are building from a particular moral and ethical

foundation; hence the need to identify the good in all of this

and build on it.

Whether we are aware of it or not, we all operate with certain

presumptions and assumptions. In this Parliament, we should

always create an environment that enables ideas to contend.

This will enable us to critically assess and evaluate our own

views. No one should seek to impose their own views rand ideas

on others.

In recent times there’s been a growing tendency to

deliberately stall progress by amongst others, contrary to

previous Parliaments, by doing the following: To clog up the

system by lodging politically motivated cases; The tendency of

political parties to be partisan and narrowly seek to score

narrow political points; To seek to put enormous pressure on

the Acting Registrar of Members’ Interest and the Office to do

the bidding of individuals or political parties as was the

case with Fazela Mohamed; To ignore the capacity constraints

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and related objective requirements; To defend wrongdoing by

disguising it as protecting comrades or fellow party members;

To ignore or under play the complexity of state capture or

even to seek to remove it from the equation.

Chairperson, referring to the Committee as a “hit Squad"

detracts from what all of us should be doing. Given our

history, the mere use of the name “hit squad” is indeed

insensitive.

Chairperson, one of the key issues that lingers on the mind of

people in our society is, the near anarchy that has

characterised the beginning of the 5th Parliament and referred

to the Powers and Privileges Committee. The new Parliament

will continue to grapple with this and similar matters.

Chairperson, part of our task across the political spectrum

should be to get rid of our own internal demons. Only then

will we be on track to consolidate the building of a truly

non-racial, non-sexist, democratic and prosperous South

Africa. The ANC Supports this Budget Vote. Thank you very

much. [Applause.]

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you hon member.

As I call hon Dudley to podium, I want to congratulate and

with hon Dlodlo happy birthday. [Applause.] Happy birthday to

you [Singing.] I will finish the song later. Hon Dudley!

Mrs C DUDLEY: Good job you didn’t ask me to sing. [Laughter.]

Parliaments Budget is expected to provide the support services

required by Parliament to fulfil its constitutional functions,

assist political parties represented in Parliament to secure

administrative support, service constituents, and provide

members of Parliament with the necessary facilities.

The ACDP welcomes the Speaker’s recognition of the need, in

terms of support services, that are under tremendous strain

and legal services is a good example of this so I’m going to

amplify your voice on this matter. This office provides an

ongoing range of specialized services that includes oral and

written advice to committees; advice to the Joint Tagging

Mechanism on the classification of Bills, drafting Bills of

exceptionally high quality, as well as drafting contracts and

policies; amongst other ad hoc services. Not to mention legal

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support when committees are conducting constitutionally

mandated oversight of the executive.

I have only realized recently, that this small team in legal

services also manages the litigation against Parliament and I

can only imagine what a huge task this is. I was shocked to

find out that all these services, which each one of the team

always delivers in a professional and competent manner, are

provided by only eight legal advisers and three senior legal

advisers under the stewardship of the chief legal adviser.

Considering that there are approximately 54 portfolio

committees and a single legal adviser can have up to 10 Bills

at any given time; the broad range of functions that this

office provides with absolute proficiency is unthinkable and

frankly unfair. The unwanted thought is just how much longer

can this small team survive the pressure, let alone be

expected to sustain the excellence that we have come to expect

of them.

The ACDP urges management to support this office by increasing

their capacity or we will all have to face the consequences.

These men and women are at high risk of burnout. Our legal

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human resources are a scarce commodity, not many want this

stressful job and those that do probably wouldn’t cut it as

the demands and broad skills that have to be developed in a

short space of time are almost too much to ask and we should

not take this for granted.

The ACDP has been a source of additional stress in their lives

in terms of the assistance we have had with drafting of

private members bills over the years and yet we have always

received the most professional and excellent service. As my

colleagues and I tend to participate on many committees apart

from those we are a member of, when they are dealing with

legislation the ACDP has a special interest in. We are

conscious of the never ending pressure on our law advisors.

The ACDP highly commends and respects these ‘super heroes’ in

our midst serving their country with humility, sacrifice and

excellence.

We also want to thank the staff of Parliament in general and

our parliamentary researchers and content advisors,

specifically; we are grateful for their talents and their

dedication.

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Then there is our IT department that also appears to be

stretched. I don’t envy them having to deal with MPs’ anxiety

and impatience when technology challenges occur.

Again the ACDP appeals to management to support these offices

and take care of our scarce resources. We also call on

Treasury to recognize the damage done to the country if the

work of parliament is undermined by overly constrained budgets

that lead to us ‘wearing out’ and losing valuable people.

Lastly, the ACDP welcomes the Speaker’s reference to

constituency work and the need for MPs to be supported

adequately; present budget constraints are an issue in this

regard.

The value of constituency involvement can be measured in

people’s greater awareness of the importance of their

participation in the processes of parliament [Time Expired.]

And the ACDP will support this budget, thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): House Chair, hon

Speaker, hon Deputy Speaker, members of the executive, hon

members, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it is an

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important task of this Parliament is to continue with the

powerful legacy that uTata uMadiba and uMama Sisulu has

entrusted to us of creating a just and fair society for all.

Our work as representatives of the people must reflect and

stay true to uTata uMadiba and uMama Sisulu’s legacy,

including his unwavering commitment to progressive

internationalism, justice, equality and a nonracial world.

In 2002, Madiba made one of the most profound statements when

he said and I quote: “What counts in life is not the mere fact

that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the

lives of others that will determine the significance of the

life we lead.”

It is in this spirit that Parliament’s participation in

international relations continues to consolidate and

strengthen our vision of creating a better South Africa in a

better Africa and a just world. We will in this House agree

that these leaders set the foundation for us to build a new

society out of the ashes of the past apartheid regime that was

isolated by the world and declared apartheid a crime against

humanity.

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As we move forward to the Sixth Parliament, we need to build

on this momentum and pursue efforts of previous parliaments of

prioritising aspirations and values as enshrined in the

National Development Plan. As participants in the global

arena, we participated in different platforms that enable us

to influence and advance our national interests. At the

Interparliamentary Union, IPU, Assembly held in March this

year 2018, we used our allocated votes to support the adoption

of the resolution on Jerusalem, which is about the

consequences of the US declaration on Jerusalem and the rights

of the Palestinian people in Jerusalem in the light of the UN

Charter and resolutions.

This resolution, amongst others, calls upon all parliaments to

urge their governments to recognise the State of Palestine on

the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital and for

the absolute rejection of the recent US administration’s

decision regarding Jerusalem and considers it null and void.

This resolution is in line with Resolution 2334 adopted by the

Security Council in December 2016. The 54th Conference of the

ANC took a resolution that the South African embassy in Israel

be downgraded from an embassy to a liaison office. In the

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spirit of these resolutions, this Parliament is urged to

support our government’s withdrawal of our ambassador in

Israel.

On March, the Israeli parliament passed a law allowing the

interior Minister to revoke the residency rights of

Palestinians living in Jerusalem on very vague grounds of

breach of loyalty to Tel Aviv. This law is the same as the

Group Areas Act that was passed on our people and forced them

to live in homelands and take away our land. District Six in

the Western Cape is a good example of such atrocities.

During the apartheid years in this country, children were

murdered, activists disappeared into thin air, people were put

into jails, people were displaced and forced to live under the

Acts that were very divisive. Fertile land with either

agriculture or minerals was stolen. Is it not what is

happening in Palestine? Is Israel not an apartheid state?

Looking at what happened to us in South Africa, we really say

that what is happening in Palestine tells that Israel is an

apartheid state. [Interjections.] There is no difference

between the way we were treated during apartheid South Africa

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and the way Palestinians are treated now. Israel is an

apartheid state and should be treated as such.

We will continue as the South African Parliament to lobby for

Southern African Development Community, SADC, to become a full

legislative body to ensure development in issues of

infrastructure, sanitation, child marriages, water and land.

The Pan-African Parliament, PAP, has just elected the new

bureau. It is our commitment that the PAP must continue to be

a beacon of good practice and good governance. And, by so

saying we will work hard that the principle of rotation, that

the Francophone countries do not want to adhere to, be

respected. We urge Parliament to play a critical role in

ensuring that all matters related to the wellbeing of the PAP

constitute a strategic responsibility of this Parliament. We

will also ensure that PAP becomes a legislative body and we

will implore our government to move towards finalising the

host agreement with the African Union. We congratulate the

South African delegation led by the Chairperson of the NCOP,

Mma Modise in making sure that South African issues are put on

the table.

Sepedi:

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Kopano ke maatla! Ba re: “Tau tša hloka seboka se šitwa ke

nare e hlotša.” A re yeng ...

English:

... PAP and make sure that Africans gain out of our

participation in that Parliament. We want to alsdo thank all

members of different focus groups, for instance, for making

sure that we move the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association,

CPA, from just being a charity organisation to an

international body that will meet its diplomatic

responsibilities.

The Freedom Charter states that there shall be peace and

friendship. I must report that we have numerous requests for

the establishment of these friendship groups, as the Speaker

has already alluded to. We will obviously be prioritising the

countries that stood in solidarity with us in our struggle for

freedom from our colonisers who promoted oppressive systems in

our African countries. We will continue to raise the plight of

the sub-Saharan people, believing that Morocco’s readmission

to the African Union will make them listen to the voice of the

people around the rights of the Sahrawi people.

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Parliament has started to cover delegation activities in all

international forums. We will continue to engage the public

broadcaster to take an interest in the activities of

Parliament and its international work. This will allow the

people an insight into the international activities of their

elected representatives. We will also use mini-plenaries to

make sure that resolutions that are taken at international

forums are debated in this House.

Again, I want to make an appeal to all the parties in the

House to make sure that that whenever we have these

international delegations, we have a 50/50 representation of

women. Hon Hlengwa, we must have a 25% of the youth that go to

these delegations. The ANC has been doing that; we are just

urging other parties to make sure that we are seen to be

practising what we preach

In conclusion, I would like to thank the Speaker of Parliament

...

Sesotho:

... MmaThabang, ngwetsi ya Bataung. Mme, o re pepile ka

lerato.

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English:

You have the work of the international relations at heart by

ensuring that International Relations and Protocol Division

functions optimally.

Sepedi:

Gomme re leboga le Job - Ntate Sithole ...

English:

... for always being there for us with your staff – you make

our work much easier. To the administration, I just want to

thank the staff in all divisions of the Speaker’s Office for

their dedication and passion in executing their duties. Let me

not forget to thank the office of the Acting Secretary to

Parliament, who continues consulting with the staff. Thank you

“sesi” [sister] Baby.

Sepedi:

Mmagongwana o swara thipa ka bogaleng.

English:

The ANC supports this budget.

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Mr M P GALO: Hon Chair, the National Assembly is the nation’s

flag-bearer. This description was canvassed eloquently by the

Constitutional Court in the Democratic Alliance v Speaker of

the National Assembly and Others in the following terms, and I

quote:

Parliament is entrusted with the onerous task of

overseeing the executive. Tyrannical rule is usually at

the hands of the executive, not least because it

exercises control over the police and the army, two

instruments often used to prop up the tyrant through

means like arrest, detention, torture and even execution.

Parliamentary oversight is a constitutional obligation that

the House must muster without fear, favour or prejudice. The

nature of our electoral system must not be scapegoated for

lack of effective oversight over the executive.

Parliament, when properly equipped, does carry out its

constitutional mandate in terms of the true dictates of the

Constitution. The National Assembly, in terms of the last

review, passed 24 Bills. The National Council of Provinces

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debated and passed 17 Bills. Two of the Bills passed were

Private Members’ Bills sponsored by the ACDP and the IFP.

The Speaker of the National Assembly has conducted her

sessions impartially with a modicum of dignity. In the secret

ballot case she extended an olive branch to all the

represented political parties. In all fairness, the robustness

of the Fifth Parliament has sought to test the agility of this

august House.

We take great pride in the work of the portfolio committees.

These committees have effectively rewritten the script of the

cause of executive accountability, have held private firms

accountable, and have scrutinised the books of government

departments.

On a lighter note, as I conclude, we wish to take this

opportunity to commend Parliament for delivering the world’s

most endeared event: the state of the national address. It is

on this occasion that the guards of honour, the junior guards,

eminent persons and the military assembled to grace this

event. I thank you. [Time expired.]

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Mr L R MBINDA: Thank you very much, Chairperson of the

session. I am greeting you all, hon members, present here

today. As the PAC, obviously, we are worried about the

luxurious holiday mood that our Parliament and government

departments are operating in. On a daily basis, until the last

state of the nation address, we used to witness wasteful and

unnecessary expenditure, but I must also commend this

Parliament more especially for the state of the nation address

of this year.

We are Africans in Africa and therefore everything that we do

must be in our best interests as the African people. We need

to promote and protect our values and culture. We agree as the

PAC that we should take positive lessons from others. However,

this does not warrant us copying and pasting Roman Dutch law

but expecting it to be responsive to our unique African

situation, as a relevant example.

The vantages of colonialism are evident in many aspects of our

society, and Parliament is not immune to them as parliamentary

rules, regulations and procedures are yet to be Africanised.

For as long as Parliament, like the rest of the judicial

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system, is dictated to by Western jurisprudence, we cannot

claim to be free.

Until such time as African jurisprudence informs our

parliamentary processes, we shall forever compromise our

people as we continue aping other people and not revisiting

our own. To the argument that we do not have our own, the

counterargument is that we do have the principles of mud(?)

and we can build upon them and be effective.

It is a disaster of the so-called democracy that it is

premised on foreign ways, foreign principles and foreign

values. Such has to change. An Africanist democracy has to be

and must be informed by the ways and values of our ancestors

which are at liberty to develop.

Lastly, we call upon Parliament to relook at this without

undermining the rule of proportion representation, the issue

of three minutes, because we cannot make a meaningful

contribution if we are only allocated three minutes.

[Interjections.] The PAC supports the debate with the above

for your consideration. [Time expired.]

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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon member.

I do hope that the Chief Whips of various parties have heard

your appeal, hon Mbinda.

Ms L M MASEKO: House Chairperson, hon Speaker, Deputy Speaker,

Ministers and Deputy Ministers who are here, hon members, the

Mandela and Sisulu families here, good afternoon.

In the year in which we jointly celebrate the 100th

anniversaries of the birth of icons — Nelson Rolihlahla

Mandela, on whom we draw lessons and inspiration as we

confront the challenges of the present, and Albertina

Nontsikelelo Sisulu, a stalwart of our struggle remembered for

her strength, compassion and tireless commitment to the people

of our country — we have committed ourselves to unite, rebuild

and renew in order that we may fulfil and realise their vision

of a free and equitable society.

Today we are debating the most important budget, being Budget

Vote 2 of Parliament. This is because only Parliament can pass

the budget. Without Parliament, the annual strategic plans and

annual performance plans of departments cannot be realised,

and without the budget, there will be no service delivery. So,

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this shows how important Parliament is within the three arms

of governance. The head of this institution, who is the

Speaker, is given limited time to present to the House. It

cannot be right, taking into account that when we have the

state of the nation address there is no time limit. The rules

must correct this.

The new dawn has emerged as a rallying call to inspire

confidence and hope among our people, in the ANC and

government; known as the thuma mina concept that is well

articulated by President Ramaphosa. The dominant theme in the

2018 state of the nation address was an appeal to all South

Africans to embrace their common nationhood as well as an

emphasis on social compacting as the primary basis for finding

lasting solutions to the most intractable problems confronting

our society.

The ANC has for a while recognised that the project of nation-

building and social cohesion, made possible by the democratic

breakthrough of 1994, was coming under threat. This was mainly

as a result of an uneven success of government’s social and

economic policies aimed at ensuring that the wealth of the

country was shared more equitably and the quality of life for

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the majority of our people improved in line with the

injunctions of the Freedom Charter.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon Louw, can

you take your seat?

Ms L M MASEKO: The new dawn symbolises the birth of something

new out of the old. It suggests a new way of doing things. In

essence it is about public representatives acting in a manner

that wins back the trust and confidence of the people in us

and government. It must be about building a professional

Public Service staffed by people who will discharge their

responsibilities to serve the people with distinction. It is

about adherence to good governance practices and fighting

corruption in all its manifestations, including corporate

capture of our state institutions by elite business and

criminal enterprises.

The task of a democratically elected government is to focus on

the agenda of reconstruction and development to address the

social and economic needs of the people. The agenda of a

developmental state requires an approach which acknowledges

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the need for a fundamental transformation of society, socially

and economically.

We are determined that public representatives here in the

people’s Parliament — the tribune of the people — should

undertake their responsibilities with efficiency, diligence

and integrity. We need to lead by example and instil a new

discipline to do things correctly, to do them completely and

to do them timeously, so that the activist Parliament, which

the ANC speaks of, achieves even greater outputs that have a

qualitative and positive impact on the lives of our people.

For Parliament to discharge its duties, we will, going

forward, need to address its resource capacity both as a

quantum but also how it is derived. The national tasks set out

in the state of the nation address will only be achieved in

the greater part because of Parliament’s constitutional

responsibility within the state.

The tasks set out in the state of the nation address will

require even greater oversight and capacity if the objectives

of the commitments outlined by the President are to be met.

These commitments are not abstract, reduced to fielding

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questions to the President on a quarterly basis. These

commitments directly involve Parliament in its ability to

execute its constitutional responsibilities to the maximum,

through oversight, research, analysis of reports and

connecting with our people at a far higher level. This will

have to be driven by empirical evidence, taking decisions on

the balance of this empirical evidence, enhanced and cutting-

edge support to members in a manner that Parliament is a

reflection of strategic value-add and an arm of state.

ANC resolutions adopted at its 54th national conference in

December 2017 give space for all to analyse, reflect and

review whether the objectives of the programmes of the ANC-led

government are being fulfilled. We have to be frank in our

assessment as to whether Parliament is fulfilling its role as

an activist Parliament — a people’s tribune — by ensuring the

implementation of policy in the form of draft legislation. We

have to ensure that we resonate to a far higher level of

oversight over the policies and programmes that are presented

before us. This needs proper and adequate resourcing of the

programmes of Parliament.

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In envisioning this new dawn, the context within which we give

meaning to this, requires candid review and analysis of our

parliamentary work. These include, but are not limited to:

Firstly, political management of the inter-relationship

between the legislative arm and the executive, as well as

other components of the state;

Secondly, our commitment to building an activist Parliament

that puts the interests of all South Africans first,

especially the poor;

Thirdly, legislatures must be felt by the people. They must be

visible through their representatives and have a meaningful

impact upon the lives of the people in order for them to feel

and see in practice the concept of, “The People shall Govern";

Fourthly, strengthening of our monitoring and evaluation

capacity of the work in the implementation of governing party

policies; and

Finally, oversight and accountability by members must

demonstrate the management of the legislative and oversight

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programme of Parliament, which requires capacity, competence

and collective action.

The number of vacancies in Parliament, especially in the

committee section, poses a serious challenge in enabling

Parliament in attaining these commitments that I’ve alluded

to. As the ANC we have, in this Fifth Parliament, driven an

enhanced oversight model which has at its political core

accountability of mandate, resources and implementation of

programmes. The past two years has witnessed outstanding

commitment across committees and ad hoc committees in ensuring

that what has been set in place by the state to benefit the

people actually does serve these interests and none other.

Even though adequate resources have not been available, we

have pushed on with the work, determined that the highest

ethics and values displayed through accountability do take

place.

Parliament is going to have to resource this area of work more

substantially going forward, as the thrust of our work is

revealing more and more weaknesses in the functioning of

government and state-owned entities.

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Our inquiries into respective sectors, even with limited

resources, have assisted in uncovering individual

malpractices, and with greater resources channelled into this

area better results can be achieved.

In scrutinising our legislative oversight we have rigorously

encouraged public participation and valuable inputs have

enriched the process. This should be further enhanced by

capacitating members in legislation drafting so that they can

be able to submit more Private Members Bills on issues raised

by South Africans.

The interest of our people in participation has grown with

increased confidence in the work of Parliament and its ability

to carry out effective oversight. However, we must assess the

effectiveness of the public participation process so that we

do not pay lip-service to it but rather ensure that it is

filtered into policy making.

The same approach to Parliament has been adopted in the

oversight model on the Financial Management of Parliament. One

would want to emphasise the need to speed up the

implementation of this Act in order for Parliament to be

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allocated the budget they have submitted, and not be treated

like a department — because Parliament is not a department —

so that it can also be able to exercise its constitutional

obligation of oversight, lawmaking and public participation

without any hindrance of the lack of resources. This will also

enable Parliament to have independent verification of issues

brought before committees by the executive.

This approach is, however, as some would want us to believe,

an exercise merely within these walls. How we reframe

programming going forward is important since we have to meet

the responsibilities of the legislative programme, oversight

work both here and in the field with the critical work of

being amongst our people through constituency work.

We should also utilise the parliamentary constituency offices

as extension offices feeding into Parliament. We will welcome

the amendment to the Money Bills Act, which we are currently

seized with, as a huge amount of the parliamentary year is

taken up with the budgetary cycle.

The ANC recognises that to improve the performance of our

parliamentary oversight and accountability responsibilities,

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monitoring and evaluation is crucial. The development of an

effective and efficient monitoring and evaluation model to

ensure robust parliamentary oversight, and achievement of

government policy and programmes is critical. We must master

providing the milestones and targets for monitoring and an

early-warning system for problems over government delivery and

system failures.

Our objectives in terms of oversight and accountability must

ensure that the Medium-Term Strategic Framework outputs, which

are government priorities, are meaningfully translated into

programmes and strategic plans.

The quality of our oversight and accountability work is in

part a reflection of our capacity to evaluate whether the

strategic approaches chosen are having the desired outcomes,

addresses challenges and successes, and informs whether

approaches should be changed or adapted to improve

performance.

Evaluation must analyse both the impact and outcome of our

oversight work on government programmes and strategies, and

must assist us with improving and adjusting our own

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parliamentary programme approaches for greater impact and

achievement of the institutional policy goals. This should

enable us to:

Firstly, improve performance, accountability, learning and

decision-making;

Secondly, assess relevance to improve efficiency,

effectiveness and value for money;

Thirdly, generate in-depth knowledge for the overall

improvement in oversight, and finally, recommend ways to

improve both our own work and the work of government.

As much as the ANC agrees that the absence of Ministers and

Deputy Ministers are problematic, we also need to acknowledge

that answering questions and statements is not the only way

that the executive accounts to Parliament, as the executive

does not only have their responsibility to Parliament as the

totality of their jobs at hand. We might need to look at a

single day in a week, based on cluster rotation, which we can

prioritise to have certain Ministers and Deputy Ministers in

the House.

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Another issue of concern is that of Rule 132(5), which

presently gives Ministers and Deputy Ministers two minutes to

respond to statements made by members, when there might be up

to five issues that the Minister or Deputy Minister would have

to respond to. Maybe the Rules Committee should look at

amending this rule, probably giving two minutes per statement

related to them.

We would like to congratulate the Speaker and the Chairperson

of the National Council of Provinces on the appointment of the

High Level Panel that has since finished its task and

presented a report on the Assessment of Key Legislation and

Acceleration of Fundamental Change, which is, in itself, a

manifestation of oversight. We welcome the appointment of the

subcommittee of the Joint Rules Committee to look into the

recommendations. In the case of certain recommendations, we

can safely say that we have already covered considerable

ground in addressing these.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members! Can

you please not shout at each other while the speaker is on the

podium? I don’t want to hear your stories, which I am hearing

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as some of you are speaking loudly. [Interjections.] I will

tell you one day what I heard. Continue hon member.

Ms L M MASEKO: In other cases proposals will require the

governing party to evaluate policy against what has been

raised. Considerable engagement is required. With regard to

the Constitutional Review Committee, the Joint Committee will

review section 25 of the Constitution and other sections where

necessary, to make it possible for the state to expropriate

land in the public interest without compensation. The Joint

Committee is mandated to propose the necessary constitutional

amendments, where applicable, about the kind of future land

tenure regime needed. A comprehensive programme to get the

opinion of our people in this regard has begun over the past

weekend led by the ANC and will begin at the end of the second

term.

The ANC supports this Budget Vote. I wanted to say that the

figures of unemployment that the DA has raised are also partly

caused by ... We found when we do our oversight work ...

that’s where we pick up some of these issues and we found that

in areas, especially in tourism, restaurants and agriculture,

... we find that on the farms most of our people are being

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retrenched and then those farmers employ foreigners as cheap

labour. This cannot be acceptable. As part of our oversight

work we will continue monitoring this and making

recommendations for their correction. Thank you very much.

[Applause.]

Mr N T GODI: Chairperson, comrades and hon members. It is the

contention of the APC that Parliament as the representative of

the people must be the centre, the lead-organ in the fight for

substantive transformation, the welfare and the well-being of

the people. It must be the lead-organ in the fight against

corruption and maladministration waste and for good

governance.

After more than two decades of political democracy, we can,

born out of collective experience which says we are for good

governance not as a value or lived experience of the liberals

but as representing the collective desire of the African

people for a better life, health care, education and services

and a better future for their children.

Parliament is obligated by the Constitution to overseer the

work of the executive. Parliament can and should continuously

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enhance its oversight work. The continued rise in irregular,

fruitless and wasteful expenditure of public money suggests

that we are not as effective as we should. We must raise the

levels of revolutionary morality.

For those who misuse public funds, there must be consequences.

Equally, a party that can’t manage public funds effectively

and efficiently doesn’t deserve to govern. The APC will

support any motion or Bill that comes before this House that

seeks to return the land to its rightful owner who are the

Africans and is for the establishment of a state bank, state

insurance company and for the nationalisation of the reserve

bank.

There is a growing shift towards African nationalism, a

movement away from that colossal fraud of rainbowism. The

plight of our people must be what spare us in our work.

I would like to appreciate all my colleagues in the Standing

Committee on Public Accounts for the dedication, unity and

focus. I also extend the same appreciation to our hard working

staff.

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On this Africa Month, it is always worth remembering the words

of the hon Marcus Garvey who said and I quote:”our best days

don’t lie in our past but in our future once we know who we

are”. The course of Africa must triumph. The APC supports the

Budget Vote. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Deputy Speaker,

Members of the Executive, hon members, ladies and gentlemen.

Allow me to dedicate this speech in the memory of the former

Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Tourism, the late

Comrade Beatrice Ngcobo and the former Chairperson of the

Portfoilio Committee on Labour, the late Comrade Fezeka Loliwe

who contributed immensely to Parliament vision to build an

effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs

of the people and that is driven by the ideal of realising the

better quality of life for all the people of South Africa

Committees are central in exercising oversight over the

executive and to keep members of the executive individually

and collectively accountable for executive action. To do this,

we have been allocated out of a budget of R2,4 billion, of

which committees in both Houses have been allocated a total

amount of R52 million to execute this responsibility. The Ad-

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Hoc committees that are established are also financed from

this budget.

Furthermore, this amount of R52 million must also cover all

expenses associated with weekly meetings, oversight visits,

advertisements for statutory appointments, public hearings,

study tours and specialised services.

In the lawmaking and oversight function, it is important for

as many as possible voices to be heard and not only of those

who are either financially able and empowered to attend

Parliament or those who are residing in the immediate vicinity

of the institution.

This Budget also provides for a mechanism and allocation to

cover the expenses of citizens who are not in a financial

position to travel to Cape Town and to make oral submissions

to committees. This well-established practice is consistent

with our mission statement to represent and act as a voice of

the people in fulfilling Parliament’s constitutional mandate.

The National Development Plan, NDP and the Sustainable

Development Goals, SDG’s have been incorporated into the

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business plans of all committees; an evaluation of budgetary

allocations and departmental alignment to both the NDP and

SDG’s are contained in the Budget reports. However, a lot

needs to be done to achieve the objectives and targets as set

out in the NDP and SDG’s. This House, continuously adopt

reports that contain clear recommendations that deserve

executive action and attention. These reports emanate from

oversight visits, committee meetings and hearings.

The tracking and monitoring of House resolutions taken by this

House leaves a lot to be desired. The current practice of

referring House resolution to the executive has certain

limitations because it doesn’t monitor the responses of action

from the executive to these resolutions that are taken. To

correct this, a dedicated mechanism in the forms of

Information and communication technology, ICT, solution that

should be located in the office of the Speaker must be

implemented as soon as possible.

Over the next two months, the Joint Constitutional Review

Committee will undertake public hearings in all nine provinces

on the topic of the expropriation of land without

compensation. Considerable human and financial resources have

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been allocated to this task with an estimated Budget of

R12,5 million. a special appeal is made to all the political

parties in this House to ensure that these public hearings are

conducted in a disciplined and constructive manner to provide

a platform for the voices of ordinary citizens from all walks

of life.

Not withstanding budgetary constraints, the 5th Parliament has

continued to develop mechanisms to guide its work as envisaged

in the oversight and accountability model and the strategic

plan. Some of the achievements include the following: the

public participation was finally adopted by the Joint Rules

Committee in November 2017.

However, the full implementation of this model with a

dedicated public participation unit is urgent to streamline

activities between the two Houses of Parliament and to provide

feedback to those who participate in all our programs.

With regard to ICT, we currently have 312 members who have

installed the My Parliament App on 403 devices. Broadcast

facilities have been improved and we currently broadcast from

14 committee rooms and the both Houses of Parliament in high

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definition digital video from a recently commissioned control

room. Our ICT has developed an information portal, which

allows for information to be searched for, browsed and

retrieved electronically from any location via the internet.

This means that members have 24-hour access to any electronic

library resource.

The next step is towards e-lawmaking, to further improve

transparency in the lawmaking process. This will ensure that

we have an early warning system in place where undue delays

are experienced in the processing of legislation. Since its

establishment in 2013, the parliamentary Budget office, PBO,

under the capable leadership of Prof Jahed has earned a

reputation as a reliable, professional and independent

advisory service to the Finance and Appropriation Committees

in both Houses.

The funding and location of the PBO Budget must be finalised

to expedite the filling of key vacancies and to broaden the

mandate of this office. The SCOPA and line function committees

must continue exercising financial oversight over departments.

The excellent working relationship between committees and the

office of the Auditor-General have generally strengthened

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oversight. However, we must guard against scope creep and

ensure that joint processes are undertaken by both SCOPA and

the relevant portfolio committees when they deal with matters

affecting departments.

The number of Bills in front of committees is at various

stages of completion and committees with legislation in front

of them will utilise the constituency period in June and July

to complete their outstanding work. Detailed programmes have

been submitted in this regard.

The Public Enterprises and Home Affairs Committees have been

seized with matters of state capture since June 2017. This

work is done in accordance with Rule 227 that confers wide

powers on committees. This Rule allows a committee to and I

quote:” monitor, investigate, enquire into and make

recommendations concerning any such executive organ of state,

constitutional institution or other body or institution”.

The members serving on these committees as well as the lead

investigator, Adv Vanara must be commended for their sterling

work and dedication under challenging conditions. The threats,

intimidation and allegations of financial enticement could not

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sway their commitment in the execution of their

responsibilities.

Last Thursday, upon instruction of the hon Speaker of the

National Assembly, I visited the Office of the Chief Justice

and met with Mr Terrence Nombembe, the Lead Investigator of

the Judicial Commission of Enquiry into State Capture. The

volumes of transcripts of committee minutes and other evidence

that was before the respective committees were handed over to

the commission. It was agreed that the National Assembly would

co-operate closely with the Inquiry, as the need may arise.

The Parliament must be resolute and decisive in dealing with

continued disruptions in committee meetings especially those

that have occurred recently in the Labour Portfolio Committee

and the Standing Committee on Finance. Such disruptions are in

violation of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act 29 of

2017 and undermine the Constitution. These perpetrators must

be charged and face the full might of the law.

Another developing trend is the blank refusal of certain

persons of interest to appear in front of committees. This

pertains to both the state capture enquiry into Eskom and the

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Steinhoff scandal. Strong action must be considered by this

House to ensure that the sovereignty of Parliament is both

respected and protected, otherwise it will simple become the

order of the day that any individual will decide whether they

can come to appear in front of a committee or not.

In conclusion, I want to express my thanks and gratitude to

the Speaker for her continued guidance and also to the other

Presiding Officers for their camaraderie. The Chairpersons of

Committees for their collective support and understanding when

certain applications can’t be approved. Also thanks the Chief

Whips of political parties for their commitment to make

Parliament work well as well as the manager of committees, Mr

Tshabalala. A special word of thanks goes out to all the staff

in my office for the selfless service, sacrifices and

dedication over the years and last but not least, to my wife

who is in the public gallery and the family for their

continued support and understanding with the task at hand. I

thank you, hon members.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Deputy

Speaker and may I say what a great privilege it is to be able

to participate in this debate today. The Speaker is right; I

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did say malibongwe when you came to the podium because I

recognise that it is probably our last dance together of the

5th Parliament. So I had to acknowledge you.

It is a privilege to participate today in what will probably

be the last budget debate before the 5th democratic Parliament

draws to a close and we start to prepare the Legacy Report for

the transition into the 6th.

It's also an opportunity for us to reflect on where this

Parliament has done well and where it has not, and also what

place our Parliament holds in the minds and experience of the

people of South Africa.

In doing so it would be wrong to ignore the fact that trust in

Parliament as an institution of democracy has plummeted from

65% in 2004 to 38% in 2015. These findings of the Human

Sciences Research Council are contained in the High Level

Panel report tabled at the end of last year. Why is this

significant? The High Level Panel went on to say: “Trust is an

essential element of democratic legitimacy, and the declining

levels of trust in ... institutions impact negatively on

nation-building”.

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What are the reasons for this loss of trust in our democratic

institutions? I would advance that one of the chief reasons

there has been such a loss of trust in our institutions of

democracy is because many of our citizens do not see these

institutions, including our Parliament, as relevant to their

daily lived experience, nor do they see them as offering a

ladder of opportunity out of their present conditions.

A former Leader of the Opposition wrote that in politics there

are two essential choices in the political arena. You can

choose to be a signpost or you can be a weather vane. He

wrote, a weather vane will: “twist in the wind ... and trim

your sails to the prevailing winds of political correctness.

That is the easy path of least resistance but it usually

leads, over time, downhill”.

A signpost on the other hand: "does not bend to the vagaries

of the moment but stands for a cause ... for an enduring set

of principles and beliefs”.

There is no shortage of institutions that have become weather

vanes to the prevailing winds of our time. They twist and

contort themselves, this way and that, spinning listlessly,

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trying to find favour with the current faction in charge or

point to the populist side of the latest cause du jour.

We saw it with the Hawks, that when the foul winds of state

capture blew, failed to act when they should have against the

Guptas, and that only now as the political winds have shifted

and changed, have suddenly sprung to life; too little, too

late!

We saw it with the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, which

blew this way and that, protecting those in political office

and their connected elite from prosecution. Now that the winds

have shifted, they have started to act; too little, too late!

And we saw it with this Parliament that protected and defended

the worst excesses of the last eight years of the Zuma

administration. Some latter-day claimants of sainthood now

decry the thievery, the corruption, the looting and the rot,

yet they were the very same ones who sat around the Cabinet

table nodding, backslapping, and drawing salaries and perks,

all the while knowing exactly what was going on. Sadly, they

still sit here today.

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What we needed in these difficult times and with these

challenges were democratic institutions that stood solid,

rooted in values and principles, secure in their mandate and

that acted without fear or favour, solid, resolute, and

standing up for the Constitution, the rule of law and

democracy. We needed more road signs and fewer weather vanes.

So, the question we have to ask ourselves as Members of

Parliament is what is the sort of Parliament we want to create

in South Africa? How do we turn this Parliament into a road

sign standing firm as a beacon of democracy rather than a

weather vane that twists and turns, buffeted uncertainly by

prevailing political winds?

Never is it more important for a Parliament to be a road sign

and not a weather vane than when it is confronted by an

executive that subverts, breaks the law and ducks

accountability. We witnessed what happened when this very

House became a weather vane to the Zuma tsunami of his

Presidency. Instead of standing firm on the Constitution, the

rule of law and on principle, we were blown horribly off

course over Nkandlagate, Sassagate, Guptagate and Zumagate. We

must never ever have a Parliament again where velvet gloves

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are used to mollycoddle the executive ... [Interjections.] ...

and shield them from accountability.

We will talk about Ms Mvenya when you have dealt with Mr Supra

Mahumapelo who is hanging on for dear life, Mr Mnguni.

This House is not a lecture hall or a classroom; it is a

robust arena of accountability. And, let me be clear, no

member of this House requires a permission slip from the

President or his Ministers to speak up, speak out and hold

them accountable!

Surely we must make this House more relevant to the challenges

facing our nation and work ... [Interjections.]

Hashtag Shut up. Well, I heard that. Let me just tell you

because I’m very glad this issue is being raised.

[Interjections.] I’m very glad this issue is being raised

because let me just tell you something. This ANC has been

trying to get me to shut up for 21 years. [Applause.] They

have never succeeded and they never will! And I’m not even

scared of concomitant action and the like that is threatened.

You will never shut me up! I will never stop speaking up! I

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will never stop standing up! And I will never stop standing up

for what’s right in South Africa! [Applause.]

We have an unemployment rate of nearly 10 million South

Africans. This is a national disaster that threatens the very

fabric of our society. The latest labour force survey should

have triggered an immediate debate in this House of what is to

be done, and yet it does not.

We have a complete breakdown of law and order in our country.

Our citizens are murdered indiscriminately in their homes.

Women and children are raped. Criminals have taken to brazenly

...

An HON MEMBER: Where’s De Lille?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I’ll tell you where Mrs De

Lille is when you tell me where Mr Jacob Zuma is. [Laughter.]

This House should be debating a plan of action on how to

restore law and order across the land, and yet it does not. We

have a crisis of poverty in our land.

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An HON MEMBER: Where’s Marietha?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I’ll tell you where Marietha

is when you tell me where Pallo Jordan is. [Laughter.]

We have a crisis of poverty in our land. Our children are

literally starving to death; families reduced to living off

sugar water and grass. This should outrage us, and if we truly

are a people-centred activist Parliament, we should be

developing a national plan to feed our starving children. This

House should be leading the charge, and yet it does not.

Instead, we selectively debate conflicts and suffering in

foreign lands, ignoring the daily conflict and suffering of

our own citizens. We have debates on high holidays, this day,

that day, joint sittings commemorating this and that, all

retreating further into the glories of the past, yet all the

while our present and future lie in peril. It is little wonder

we have this widening trust deficit.

Whereto is the future focus; a vision oriented with an eye on

the future to come? Our House should be initiating debates

that point the nation towards the future because, believe you

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me, if we are facing challenges now, innumerable challenges

lie ahead of us. The legislation we pass, the debates we have,

the policies we implement and the oversight we do, should be

preparing our country and our people, not only for the

domestic challenges we currently face but the global

challenges that will confront us as a nation going forward.

We should be debating — and this Parliament should be on the

very cutting edge of that debate — on artificial intelligence

advancements. The job market is going to change rapidly in the

next 20 to 30 years. Jobs and work as we know it today will

simply not exist. We need to prepare our country and our

people for its impacts and position ourselves to be able to

take advantage of the huge opportunities that come with it.

Major advances in technologies, the internet of things, drones

and biotechnology are all going to force us to compete even

more to attract investment, but we cannot compete if we are

not even having these debates to prepare us for the future. We

cannot compete if we are still indulging in backward-looking

analogue debates on the past in a rapidly evolving future-

focused digital era.

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We have a golden opportunity to leap this technological

divide. Our education system is broken, and our skills and

technological capacities are hamstrung and constrained. Policy

failure and poor planning has left our citizens, particularly

our youth, massively vulnerable.

The 2016 Global Information Technology Report released by the

World Economic Forum ranked South Africa last in Maths and

Science for the third consecutive year. Our disjointed and

outmoded education and skills development processes, and

research and development all need to be massively overhauled

anyway. We have the opportunity to do so in a way that gives

South Africa the competitive edge in the new economy to come.

We can build a skills and technological powerhouse that will

allow the youth of our country to ride the wave of the

disruption to come and cash in on being world leaders in key

modern industries, but only if we start leading that debate as

this House. If we do not, South Africa and our people will be

left behind.

One of the primary functions entrusted to this House is the

passing of legislation. This is not an area where there is

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much to boast about. The 5th Parliament’s track record on

passing legislation has been abysmal. In the 2017 year the

House passed only 11 pieces of legislation. Taking into

account the financial legislation we are bound by law to pass

anyway, makes the figure even more miserable. The truth is

that we have not sat enough and often enough to work on and

pass legislation. This has now led to a massive backlog of

34 pieces of legislation in the NA and 15 in the NCOP. The

High Level Panel acknowledged this shortcoming and expressed

its disappointment in the key failure to legislate effectively

where it said, "The time it takes between the first submission

of legislation to Parliament and its passage is too long".

We did not, however, require the panel to point this out A

perusal of the Programming Committee minutes and the Joint

Programming Committee minutes over the course of the last

three and a half years shows how the opposition repeatedly

sounded the warning about the legislative logjam and the need

to intervene, prioritise and make provision. We made

suggestions repeatedly on what would need to be done, yet

these were ignored. We have become the legislature that does

not legislate.

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But, allied to this budget of Parliament, begs the further

question which relates to our actual capacity as legislators

to legislate. Time and time again over every budget year the

members of this House have raised concerns about the imbalance

of forces that exist between the executive and Parliament,

where the executive has abundant resources, whole departments

and batteries of staff, of research, review, planning, legal

advice and data analysis, yet the parliamentary research

capability is horribly underfunded, the staff massively

overworked and underappreciated.

If passing legislation, and good legislation at that, is one

of our core functions, then why does the budget not reflect

that? If we don’t seriously and urgently address this huge

imbalance of forces, the legislative arm is forever going to

be at the mercy of the executive arm.

The ancient Roman poet Juvenal, in his work, Satires, famously

asked who will watch the watchers. In any system, those who

exercise oversight over others should themselves be subject to

oversight. The answer to the question that he poses, in our

parliamentary instance, is the Ethics Committee of Parliament.

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I’m sorry to say, hon Masondo, but your committee has been an

absolute abject failure rendered completely moribund by

committee leadership that do not understand how ethics work or

how to effectively run processes.

The committee has met once this year, despite a massive

caseload of complaints against members of this House, ranging

from assault of women, to dishonesty, to theft of public

money. It is an indictment on the chairs of this committee

that the important work of this committee, so deeply respected

during the tenure of Mr Ben Turok as the chairperson, has been

reduced to, yes, Mr Masondo, a low-level political hit squad

where opposition members are in the crosshairs, but a

lumbering and docile committee when governing party members

are required to be investigated. And frankly, I would be

ashamed ... I would have sent a sick note in if I was you,

rather than come and defend your miserable record in terms of

this committee today. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr P J MNGUNI: Deputy Speaker, point of order: The hon member

is certainly casting aspersions on the good integrity of hon

Masondo. [Interjections.] If he wants to do that he must do so

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through a substantive motion. Then we can deal with it. Can

you please ask him to withdraw that?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon members, we will come back on that

matter. I will go and look at it so that we report it properly

here.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I don’t

require a substantive motion. It was a ruling of the High

Court of South Africa, which exposed this political hit squad

for what it is and said, “The committee was unable to follow

even the most basic principles of a fair and just process.”

[Applause.] What an indictment! What an indictment on you,

sir! [Applause.] [Interjections.]

Mr P J MNGUNI: Point of order once again, hon Deputy Speaker.

You have made a ruling that you will come back to that. It

means you will check Hansard and all. I think it is absolutely

uncalled for, for the hon member to continue ...

[Interjections.] ... on the same note. He disregards your

ruling. Thank you.

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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay. No, hon member, I’m listening and I

will make a ruling at the appropriate time.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: This is the same committee

that, when we lodged the first complaint against hon Manana,

has still not dealt with it. He’s onto a second transgression

and they still haven’t dealt with the first one. It just shows

you the state and how seriously they take action against ANC

members, and how quickly they moved when it was the hon

Maimane.

I see Mr Shaik Emam has done a hit and run. He’s not here. I

just want to say he’s the ultimate in hypocrisy. I want him to

tell me which NFP members are living in Acacia Park, Pelican

Park and the others because he decries the fact that members

have that. He talks about the overseas trip, the very

impressive and important work we did there in Ghana and

London, Madam Speaker, but he fails to point out that his own

Chief Whip of his own party attended the very same study tour.

That is rank hypocrisy!

Madam Speaker, when you go out to conduct the investigations

into the constituency offices, please do take a little bit of

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time to speak to the staff members in that office, because in

Mr Emam’s office, a staff member had to get a restraining

order against him as he kept threatening him and illegally

docked his pay. The poor man had to go to various courts of

law to try and get justice. [Applause.]

Mr P J MNGUNI: Hon Deputy Speaker, point of order again. This

is definitely personal and it cannot be right.

[Interjections.] He’s casting aspersions. It can’t be right!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member, that is sustained. That

order is sustained. Go ahead, hon member.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, may I

address you? Which rule was the hon member referring to? That

it’s personal? What rule is that? [Interjections.] Please

quote the rule. Please quote the rule ... [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, casting ... [Interjections.]

... Hon member, take your seat. Hon member, it’s important

that we desist from those personal ... [Interjections.] ... on

members as is required by the rules. Proceed hon member.

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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, out of

respect for you I will withdraw, and I will certainly share

the copy of the affidavit and the order of court with the

press, because it’s very clear that the ANC is covering up for

unfair labour practices. They talk about the farms and

everything that’s going on there, yet they are covering up

here for unfair labour practices.

However, I would again take very, very careful note of taking

advice from Mr Shaik Emam. Political parties have one job and

that is to contest elections, and when you can’t even register

for the last election held in South Africa you have got to ask

yourself how seriously can you take Mr Shaik Emam and his

party?

The hon Kilian threw her own party under the bus and I agree

with her list of indictments against the government, the Home

Affairs Department that’s in absolute disarray, clinics that

are not working, hospitals that are falling apart ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, what are you rising on? Take a

seat, hon member.

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Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, I want to ask whether hon

Steenhuisen is prepared to take a question.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, are you prepared to take

a question?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I’ll be consulting in

Barneys after the sitting. I’m happy to take it there.

The hon Kilian spoke about that, and she then accused the hon

Waters of misleading this House. Well, it would be very nice

if, from time to time, she maybe attended the Parliamentary

Oversight Authority, where in front of ANC members, that

information was released to the committee in the budget

hearings of the last quarter. So, if she is accusing anybody

of lying, please can she go and take it up with the

Parliamentary Budget Office and the parliamentary officials

who give us the information in the committee? Again, casting

aspersions on your own operation. With friends like that who

needs enemies? [Laughter.]

I do want to say that our Parliament has achieved much, but

has also fallen short of what our Constitution expects from

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us. I think we can do better as a Parliament and I think that

we can do better as parliamentarians. This House has to become

a place that realises the very best dreams of the hopers and

defeats the worst intentions of the haters. The House has to

become a place where freedom is defended. The House has to

become a place where opportunity is expanded. The House has to

become a place where diversity is celebrated. And, the House

has to become a place where fairness is legislated.

And if this great Parliament can be that road sign, standing

firm through even the darkest night and strongest storms,

resolutely directing us to a new hope, then the answers to the

questions that we ask will be answered. The power to solve the

immediate challenges that lie in our hands are before us. We

need to have the courage to grasp them. The challenges lie

ahead of us and we must all grasp them together. Thank you.

[Applause.]

Mr V G SMITH: Deputy Speaker, hon members and distinguished,

guests good afternoon. I would like to take this opportunity

to pay tribute to all the parties represented in this

Parliament for their contribution to the progress we have

made. Though we have our differences, often important and

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sometimes profound, we have as a collective demonstrated our

overriding commitment to the new order that we have together

established. You have ensured that this Parliament is no

rubber stamp in the hands of government and given birth to a

new democratic political culture. Yeah, I am glad you think is

rubbish, but listen to what I am about to say. This is an

extract from Madiba’s address on the occasion of the final

sitting of the first democratic Parliament on the 26 March

1999. Madiba spoke rubbish for you. You must be ashamed of

yourself, sir. Those statements said by Madiba in 1999 are

true and relevant today as they were 19 years ago.

As we debate this final Parliament Budget Vote for the Fifth

Parliament, we must acknowledge our achievements but also

raise our concerns. As we reflect on the past four years, all

political parties represented here should continue to make

constructive proposals aimed at transforming this institution

into a more effective and efficient machine and to contribute

in crafting a legacy for future parliaments to build upon.

Comrades, located within the national development plan are

five strategic outcome orientated goals relevant to

Parliament, these are: strengthening oversight and

accountability; enhancing public involvement; deepening

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engagement in international fora; strengthening cooperative

governance; and strengthening legislative capacity.

We must agree that considerable progress has been achieved

with regard to oversight and accountability as well as public

involvement. This progress has resulted in South Africans

having far more confidence in their public representatives’

willingness to ensure accountability.

With regard to public involvement communities are taking an

active role in the governance of our country as can be seen by

the popular participation even with the current programme of

the constitutional review committee as it pursues its mandate

for the amendment or otherwise of section 25 of the

Constitution. Such is the public interest shown and the

importance attached to this exercise, that we are witnessing

public participation reminence of the drafting of the Freedom

Charter and the finalisation of the Constitution of the

country. South Africans have truly moved from just

sloganeering about the people shall govern to the reality that

the people are governing.

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Parliament continues to mature and has now evolved from merely

processing legislation that emanates from the executive to

Parliament itself initiating legislation. It is a pity hon

Shivambu is not here because contrary to his accession that

the ANC lacks capacity to make laws. Let me give him two

examples. In recent months this House passed the political

Party Funding Bill that was initiated and processed entirely

by the legislature. This piece of legislation will ensure

greater transparency with regard to who funds political

parties and why. Political parties will henceforth be

compelled to account publicly as to how party funds are

utilised. Another very important aspect of this law is that

it affords corporate South Africa and other donors an

opportunity to contribute to the multiparty democratic project

by depositing directly into the multiparty democracy fund.

Fellow South Africans and hon Shivambu, in the next two weeks,

yet another Parliament initiated piece of legislation, namely

the Public Audit Act Amendment Bill will be tabled in this

House. The primary objective of this Bill, initiated by the

legislature, is to grant the Auditor-General the requisite

powers to ensure that there are real and immediate

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consequences for financial mismanagement or corruption in both

the public and private sector.

To ensure that effective parliamentary oversight and improved

public participation is continued, we as Parliament must

insist that the institution is appropriately resourced.

Parliament is not an equivalent of a department of government,

we are an equal, but autonomous arm of the state and must

enjoy both operational and financial independence, and as such

Parliament should not be dependent on the executive for

funding.

For the 2018-19 financial year, the budget for magistrates and

judges salary amounts to R3,2 billion. At the same time the

operational budget for Parliament which is meant to capacitate

Members of Parliament to exercise oversight over the

executive, amongst other tasks, only received the budget of

R1,9 billion. I argue that the Parliament budget which is more

than R1 billion less than just the salary budget for the

judiciary is woefully inadequate when we consider that this

institution has a constitutional obligation to oversee a

country expenditure budget of almost R1,5 trillion. The

current practise whereby parliament is subject to the same

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process as government departments with regard to budget

allocation is inconsistent with Parliament’s status as an arm

of the state that is equal to the judiciary and the executive.

[Applause.]

We are however aware that the Speakers Forum has started

engagements with the Ministry of Finance as well as the

Minister in the Presidency with regard to setting up a

separate budget process of Parliament and provincial

legislatures. As parliament we should actively support a

speedy finalisation of this matter once and for all.

The joint committee on the oversight of Parliament observes

that in 2015-16, the final budget allocated to Parliament was

R628 million short of what Parliament requested. In 2016-17,

the shortfall was R958 million, in 2017-18 the shortfall was

R1 billion and in the 2018-19 the short fall is R476 million.

Essential support such as committee research and budget office

support cannot be enhanced due these to budgetary constraints.

Between the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, the Programming

Whip and the programming committee, the collective are ceased

with the responsibility to ensure that the program of the

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House is finalised after the due consultation between all the

political parties. Part of their responsibilities includes

arranging the business on the Order Paper in concurrence with

the Leader of Government Business where necessary. It also

includes chairing the Chief Whlp’s Forum and considering

requests for committees to sit beyond the seat of Parliament

or during sittings of the Assembly. Currently, this central

responsibility to ensure the smooth functioning of the

National Assembly is funded by the political parties from

their own party allocations. It is my considered view that

pPrliament should be responsible for these costs.

The inherent risk of an underfunded Parliament is that the

very engine of parliament, being the committees, is unable to

perform optimally. the time is now to address this matter

head-on in the interest of safe-guarding our hard won

democracy and for the sustainability of Parliament being the

centre where the voices of the voiceless will be heard and

respected.

As our democracy deepens, Parliament must recommit and better

capacitate itself in order to do more to tackle the still

pervasive poverty, unemployment and inequality challenges that

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continue to affect so many of our people. Addressing these

ills decisively needs unity of purpose and co-operation from

all of us as different political parties.

The country has moved into an era where the application of

austerity or cost reduction measures has become necessary so

as to better utilise the scarce financial resources at the

country’s disposal. The provision of the basic needs of all

South Africans must never be sacrificed on the altar of

corruption or the lack of skills and ability.

The apartheid arrangement that arises from having the

executive capital 1 000 kilometres away from the legislative

capital has huge cost implications for the national revenue

fund as well as the loss of productivity implications of

having departmental officials and members of the executive

commuting between the two capitals at huge financial costs,

sometimes for engagements that last for less than four hours.

This status quo can no longer be justified. In light of this

reality, I believe that our contribution as this Parliament

towards directly savings costs in the long-term must include

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advice to the next Parliament to embark upon the program of

relocating this institution. [Applause.]

At this point allow me to deal with two or three matters that

have been raised by our colleagues. Hon Waters raised the fact

that performance indicators are nonexistence in certain

instances. He raised the fact that Parliament does not have

treasury office to advise the Speaker and that the Women’s

Parliament continues to cost us as prices go up. We all agree

with that, hon Waters. However, these matters are being

addressed by the committee that is charged with the oversight

of Parliament. As such it is our responsibility to make sure

that these are fixed up before the Speaker gets involved. As

the oversight committee member I can assure you we are engaged

to that matter.

I agree with you, hon Waters, when you say the budget of

Parliament needs to be relooked at, and I eluded to that. I

agree 100% with you. Thank you very much, hon Steenhuisen.

I want to speak to South Africans rather than to speak to the

EFF. Let’s make it clear. On 27 February, when this House

resolved for the review of section 25 of the Constitution it

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did not resolve that the Constitution will be changed so that

the state will be the sole custodian. That was not in the

resolution. The resolution said that we must review. From

where I come from the word review means a formal assessment of

something with the intention of instituting change if

necessary. [Applause.] To create an impression of this House

concluding or resolving to change the Constitution is really

not accurate.

Hon members, we must also agree with hon Shivambu and applaud

the EFF for the list of its intended Bills that it wants to

bring to Parliament. But we must also say that that is the

role of Parliament and the Members of Parliament, MPs. So we

should not applaud it. It is like applauding a fish for

swimming. It’s our job. [Laughter.] Talk to the general about

the fish.

Hon Steenhuisen, with all respect, sir, we fought as those

that were oppressed. We fought for the rights of all South

Africans to be able to speak freely. That was our sacrifice.

The #Shutup can never be something that revolutionaries will

ever advocate for. It does not settle with those of us who

were in the trenches. Rest assured, hon, Steenhuisen, it will

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never come from us – it won’t come from us. [Interjections.]

Yes! Yes, if you keep quiet you learn.

Hon Steenhuisen, let me talk about your argument. I agree with

you that this Parliament must begin to debate about the

future. What is that future? That future is the resolution

around land reform. Let’s have that debate and not suppress it

as you guys want to. Let’s debate about the ownership of land.

Let us debate about the issue of white privileges and black

poverty. [Applause.] Let us debate it. That is what I agree

with you - let us do that.

Finally, hon Steenhuisen, I agree with you that this House’s

responsibility is to pass legislation. But I do think that it

should not be the quantity of legislations that we should be

worried about, but it should be the quality and the impact of

the legislations. [Applause.] I would rather have legislation

sit and not being implemented if it’s not going to improve the

quality of lives. That should be the measure of what we are

doing.

Parliament as the legislative arm of our democratic state has

a special role to play in achieving the South Africa for which

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Mama Sisula, Madiba and so many others have sacrificed for. I

thank you.

The SPEAKER: Hey, today you are really being led by hon

Steenhuisen. He just said something and you didn’t hear him

...

IsiZulu:

Wathinta abafazi

English:

Hon members, thank you very much for what I believe was a

constructive engagement on matters pertaining to Parliament.

Allow me to first respond to a few matters that were raised.

On the matter of legal drafting, I agree that this is a scarce

skill that must be cultivated. We actually have been

discussing this over a long time. I remember we did even in

the third Parliament. Clearly, there is an appetite on the

part of hon members and that’s why I reported in my main

address that 12 Private Member Bills were submitted by hon

members from different parties and not necessarily passed

already.

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On transitional arrangements, hon Dlakude, be assured that the

administration has commenced with the legacy report under the

leadership of the acting secretary to Parliament. This will

include the area of transitional arrangements for the sixth

Parliament.

Hon Kilian, I agree that training for members should be

ongoing, not only an activity confined to the point of the

induction training at the start of a new Parliament.

The costs of subsistence allowances and transport for some

staff ... This is a matter that was raised, I think by the hon

Walters and I believe that it has been dealt with by hon Smith

because the money has been allocated to their respective cost

centres instead of the Women’s Parliament. By the time the

report for the third quarter was finalised, this was not yet

corrected which then caused the variance of R40 000 between

the amounts reported during the third and fourth quarter. As

hon Smith has indicated that it is being dealt with by the

Joint Standing Committee.

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Let me remind hon members about the formula for funding of the

political parties, which is something I thought members would

be aware of by now.

IsiZulu:

Uthini uKwankwa.

English:

I thought you would by now be familiar with how the issue of

funding of political parties is dealt with. Political parties

are allocated funds in proportion to their representation in

the House as provided for in the Constitution. I think it is

the hon Chief Whip that has repeated advised hon members that

the thing for them to do is just to make sure that they come

back in larger numbers.

With respect to the variance of money withheld from political

parties, the correct amount withheld was only R199 000 and not

R190 million. There is a great difference between the two

figures. So, hon Walters, you have not quoted the correct

amounts. Well, maybe we should look at the document and

correct it.

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With respect to the quarterly budget allocation, hon members,

in this regard, please note that the responses on the changes

to the budget allocations will be submitted to the Joint

Standing Committee as promised, last week, by the acting

secretary to Parliament.

We note the concern with regard to the Treasury advice office.

I am aware of the separation of powers between the Treasury

office, advice office and the chief finance officer. We

continue to submit the request for this unfunded mandate and

we will do so in this year’s adjustments budget

Hon members, speaking at the first sitting of Parliament, as

the first democratically elected President of a free South

Africa on 24th May 1994, President Nelson Mandela stated:

We place our vision of new constitutional order for South

Africa on the table not as conquerors prescribing to the

conquered. We didn’t do that. We are still not in the

mood. We speak as fellow citizens to heal the wounds of

the past with the intent of constructing a new order

based on justice for all. [Applause.]

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Those words marked the final death nail of an unjust political

system based on race and the birth of a new constitutional

order in South Africa.

One of the key outcomes of the liberation struggle was the

country’s Constitution, which bears the very heavy imprint of

the vision and the values which President Nelson Mandela, Mama

Albertina Sisulu and others of their generation stood for.

Nelson Mandela understood the importance and significance of

Parliament and therefore, had a profound respect for this

Parliament as it has had for him.

This respect is personified in a conversation that former

Speaker, Frene Ginwala, recalls with Madiba. Just after she

was elected as the Speaker, talked about what Madiba said, I

quote:

You must run Parliament in a way that carries on what we

have done in negotiations, where we have tried to bring

all parties on board. We have tried to involve everybody

so that we take the whole of South Africa into this new

arrangement.

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Here we are quoting Frene Ginwala in conversations with the

Mandela Foundation on 14 June 2008.

Both Madiba and Mama Sisulu were concerned with giving life to

the Constitution and achieving its stated aims. They both

understood that Parliament is not only the vanguard of

democracy but it is also primarily responsible for improving

the lives of millions of our people.

It was in this spirit that we embarked on the process of

defining and securing the features of our freedom – which are

strong democratic institutions with the necessary checks and

balances ... You know this cough. Cheers. ... To ensure our

democracy’s endurance and resilience even when faced with

adversity and challenges.

We owe Tata Nelson Mandela and Mama Albertina Sisulu a great

dept. We should strive to emulate their visionary leadership,

humility and above all, their belief of being selfless

servants of our people.

May we and generations to come derive strength from them and

act in the knowledge that there is a possibility and a

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potential of a Mandela and a Sisulu in each of us.

[Interjections.] That potential is there if we commit to never

forget that we exist to serve the people but not to destroy

one another.

Let us in our words and actions be it, in the chambers of

Parliament, the executive and wherever we find ourselves, act

with integrity and honour as Madiba and others, including Mama

Winnie Madikizela Mandela did in service to our people at all

times.

Let us work together to continue the work of Nelson Mandela

and Mama Albertina Sisulu to fulfil the promise that: “The sun

shall never set on so glorious a nation,” to quote from Tata

Madiba. I thank you.

IsiZulu:

Intsha kukhulunyiwe ngayo Hlengwa. Wena aweneliswa nje.

[Ihlombe.]

APPROPRIATION BILL

(Consideration of Reports of Portfolio Committee)

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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we will now take orders 2-41

together as they appear on the Order Paper. These are reports

of Portfolio Committees on Budgets Votes as has been the

practice over the years.

There will be no declaration of votes on these reports as they

have already been debated during Mini-Plenary sessions, and

parties will have the opportunity to make declarations during

the Consideration of the Votes and Schedule on Friday, 25 May.

However, we will allow parties to indicate their objections to

specific reports should they wish to do so.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thanks hon Deputy

Speaker. I move that the reports be adopted. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The motion is that the reports be adopted.

Are there any objections? There is an objection, yes?

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: (Mr WALTERS): Deputy

Speaker, please note the objections for the following reports

from the DA: Vote 7 – Finance, Vote 19 – Defence and Military

Veterans, Vote 28 – Labour, Vote 11 – Public Works, and

finally Vote 34 – Trade and Industry. Thank you.

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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. We will do that.

Mr N M PAULSEN: Thank you Deputy Speaker. Please note the

objection of the EFF to all reports with the exception of Vote

5 – The Office of the Chief Justice and Administration. Thank

you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. We will note that. Are there

any other objections? No objections, agreed to. Hon members,

before you leave I thought I should do this on behalf of the

Presiding Officers. I don’t have their mandate.

Former President Nelson Mandela in a meeting somewhere here

told us that when he went to the United States, the big

protector he was allocated to say to him: “Sir, you may not

like my face, but when I say get down you better get down.”

[Laughter.]

So Madiba looks at him and says this fellow; but he says I

couldn’t do any other thing else I just hope nothing happens

that will require me to be told to get down. So when we sit in

this chair and I ask you to please take your seat please do

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so. You may not like our faces. Please go home. Thank you.

[Laughter.] [Applause.]

The House adjourned at 18:39

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