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davidpalmerMember Since: 04/14/00

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davidpalmer Member Since: 04/14/00

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davidpalmer Member Since: 04/14/00

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Rather than take a poll, I’d like a little advice on what to do … Minor patient in active ortho treatment recently got together with another local kid and went around breaking into vehicles and stealing what they could fi nd. This included my truck and they stole some sunglasses and two Glocks!

They have been busted and about eight guns (handguns and one rifl e) are being returned (they sold some!). Dad came over yesterday with son and made son apologize. Frankly, it was very weak. It appears he is not sorry, but just very sorry he got caught …

What to do? Press charges? Continue treatment? Refer? I’m really at a loss here. ■

Press charges. Defi nitely a serious offense that included stealing fi rearms. Were they in a lockbox in your car or in the console? I’m surprised the police wouldn’t go after them harder for illegal sale of a fi rearm. ■

Do you really have to press charges for him to be in trouble with the law? I’m all for second chances, especially with teenagers, but theft and sale of fi rearms is way offsides. No way I would continue treatment. I don’t think I could give them my best after that. ■

Firearms in the console. It’s Texas. If we had been home at the time and I saw what was going on, they may have been killed. It’s a frightening scenario. Police are going after them hard but it is up to the individual to press charges. Police are recommending it. I see their point especially since we’re not talking bicycles here.

I know both these boys well. One worked some for me and the other played on a baseball team I coached. I am so pissed and disappointed in them. I’m at least 6–8 months away from completing ortho but I’m not sure if I can just say, “Screw you! Go somewhere else.”

Maybe consult with an attorney? ■

If I knew the kid, I’d be at a loss to decide to press charges also. What about the other kid involved? Was he the instigator? Maybe just press charges on that one and talk to your patient’s dad about some community service as well as maybe personal service on your behalf as his punishment. But you can’t just let it go. ■

Did the kid, your patient, know it was your truck parked at your house, or was it random coincidence? If he knew it was you, I would defi nitely react in a different manner. ■

They both knew exactly whose truck it was and where I live. It’s a small town. ■

What Would You Do?After a teen patient gets caught stealing from him (and doesn’t seem very penitent), a dentist in Texas asks

Townies for advice on whether to continue with treatment, press charges … or both

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KzooDDS Member Since: 11/16/03

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drdavewolf Member Since: 06/19/06

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davidpalmerMember Since: 04/14/00

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windmillMember Since: 05/01/03

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I wouldn’t feel comfortable treating the ortho patient anymore. Not worth the money. As far as pressing charges if everyone else is pressing charges, then I would probably let it go, but if no one else is then I would pursue charges so they don’t walk. ■

Most likely the root of their actions is a much bigger problem—drugs or something. Sometimes the hard road is the one that is best for a kid heading down the wrong path. I would not let them get away with this. What happens if the next guy is home and they get killed? You may end up feeling more guilty. It may be possible to discuss this with the dad to explain why.

No matter how you slice it you should be pissed at them for putting you in this situation! ■

I was just notifi ed that one of my guns is being returned today. Tracked down by our local constable. The other is still nowhere to be found and likely in the hands of a bad guy.

Thanks for the sounding board, guys. I am going to press charges and stop treatment. It really bothers me because both of these boys I know well. They have been getting into other trouble and dabbling in weed and drugs.

Sixteen years old is plenty old to decide which path to take. I think a lesson needs to be learned as they go through the criminal justice system. The constable told me they will have their records sealed when they become adults (18). This just really sucks. ■

David, if they stole those guns, and you found out those guns ended up in Houston and were involved in a killing of a child, I suspect that would devastate you. You are a good man. I would press charges. This is serious stuff. Lots of these stolen guns end up in Chicago in gang shootings. Contact an attorney about treatment. This isn’t kicking over garbage cans or setting off fi recrackers in mailboxes. ■

Re the handguns: Sorry dude, the only place a handgun should be is one of two places:• in a safe• on your person

If my handgun were ever stolen and used in a crime, especially if someone dies … ■

Michael and mouthjanitor: So, I guess it’s my fault a couple of local kids broke into my truck and stole guns from me? I’m sure you would say the same thing if they stole money, jewelry or anything of value left in my truck? “If you hadn’t left it there, it wouldn’t have been stolen.” Right?

Get a grip, people. How about we blame the criminals. Where I come from, anytime a criminal breaks into a vehicle or house and steals anything, we tend to focus on the perpetrator. The kids were just very fortunate someone didn’t catch them in the act, including me. And no, I’m not going to change my life because of very rare theft in my small town. It bothers me because I know the boys so well and what they did was so incredibly dangerous for everyone involved. Pistols are “secured” because they are in a locked truck in my own driveway in the middle of 20 acres. Good grief. ■

This is the difference between Texas and the rest of the world. In Texas, we hold people respon-sible for their own actions. If someone breaks into my house, breaks into my gun safe and steals

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Brandon Piper Member Since: 02/10/07Post: 44 of 63

wizexo Member Since: 07/19/05 Posts: 48 & 49 of 63

my guns, no one here says it’s my fault if the robbers then kill someone with my gun they stole. However, in the rest of the world, if someone breaks into my car and steals a gun and then

kills someone with that gun, people turn on the gun owner, not the thief and murderer. The idea is that if something is accessible at all (such as breaking a car window to get to it), then you are responsible for any bad results that follow from theft and utilization of your dangerous stuff.

We all have stuff. We can do our due diligence to safeguard these things, but if someone is determined to get the stuff, they will fi nd a way. Some of our stuff is dangerous stuff and can be used for lethal things. That is reality. The problem is evil intent on the part of determined criminals. The problem is not ownership of dangerous things. There is no way to absolutely prevent theft of your stuff.

Are there legal repercussions to abandoning a patient mid-ortho? ■

I sincerely doubt that referring a patient to a specialist at any point during treatment would constitute abandonment. And given the fact that this patient admitted to the crime, no dental board is going to fault the doctor here. ■

While my wife’s purse is heavy enough to beat the crap out of someone, it isn’t going to kill someone like your gun. It is the criminal’s fault for the murder, it is your fault for enabling them. Have you ever heard of the bartender who is prosecuted for serving drinks to the drunk who then gets in his car and kills someone with the car? You can’t unteach stupid, but you can instill responsibility—shame on you!

I’m not putting fault on him for the crime related to the theft of the guns, Dave didn’t do anything to encourage that crime. But he did make available two guns (though one was recovered, one hasn’t been) to criminals who can now use them to murder an innocent person. ■

I feel bad for the parents though. No matter how heinous a crime your kid committed, as a parent you have to support him. The dad bringing the kid to you to apologize, that’s the dad’s way of begging for forgiveness. Tough situation. I’d have a man-to-man talk with the dad fi rst, perhaps make a deal with the DA for lesser charges and not throw the book at him. ■

True on Texas. Hard to do, but doing the right thing in my opinion, David. Sorry you have to go through this. Hoping kids see the light as a result, but if not … ■

As far as the malpractice

issue of this thread, I once heard

a lawyer/orthodontist speak

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teethdood Member Since: 12/29/05

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sierralima Member Since: 11/21/01

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ndIrishndMember Since: 07/11/13

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Share your thoughts!Search: “What Would You Do”This board sparked an intense debate on everything from what constitutes malpractice to gun control. Has something similar happened to you? Go to dentaltown.com and search the message boards for “what would you do”—this conversation will be one of the top results in the Law & Ethics section under Ethical Issues.

about dismissing patients from your practice. The patient has to be in stable condition, which

could include people in temp restorations. I think you are covered there, even if they are in

brackets. Then you have to send a letter certifi ed mail and then provide emergency services for

30 days from the date you sent it. Then the patient is no longer yours after that. ■

Am I crazy for wanting you to take the brackets off before dismissal? Sounds like dad might

be on board for that. This kid needs a little shaming. I think you are doing the right thing by

pressing charges. It is better for the kids in the long run. ■

I really don’t think you have to worry about dismissing. Where the kid is going, he is going

to get free ortho paid for by the state. ■

eaLP Member Since: 03/02/11

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Doggin Member Since: 05/25/01

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