why finland's schools are top-notch (opinion) - cnnrgriffin/finlandschgood.pdfwhy...

13
10/6/14 6:51 PM Why Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com Page 1 of 13 http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2 Home U.S. World Politics Justice Entertainment Tech Health Living Travel Opinion iReport Education in the United States is too much defined by testing and data, says Pasi Sahlberg. Editor's note: Pasi Sahlberg is visiting professor at Harvard University's Graduate School of Education and former director general in the Finnish Ministry of Education and Culture. Follow him on Twitter: @pasi_sahlberg. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the writer. (CNN) -- Millions of American parents spend countless hours trying to figure out how to help their children get better grades, better teachers or better schools. They may want to take a page from Finland, which is considered to have one of the leading education systems in the world. Finnish students consistently score near the top in the Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA, for reading, mathematics and science. The 2012 PISA results tell us that in these three subjects combined Finland ranks third after Korea and Japan. In comparison, American students' combined performance in reading, mathematics and science places the United States at 21st among 34 Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development countries. More from CNN: Why Finland's schools are top-notch By Pasi Sahlberg updated 11:10 AM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014 SET EDITION: U.S. INTERNATIONAL MÉXICO ARABIC TV: CNN CNNi CNN en Español HLN Sign up Log in TV & Video Money Sports STORY HIGHLIGHTS Many American parents worry about their kids getting good grades and doing well in school Pasi Sahlberg: Finland has one of the leading education systems in the world He says U.S. can learn from Finland in building an education system that enhances equity Sahlberg: U.S. education focuses on testing and data, which skews teaching priorities 10 works of art that shocked the world 12 laundry mistakes you're probably making Musk teases something new from Tesla: The D Mila Kunis and Ashton Kutcher's baby's name is... The trouble with y'all moving to Texas Why so many children aren't ready SHARE THIS Print Email 10k Recommend Recommend More sharing

Upload: lekhuong

Post on 15-May-2018

215 views

Category:

Documents


0 download

TRANSCRIPT

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 1 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Home U.S. World Politics Justice Entertainment Tech Health Living Travel Opinion iReport

Education in the United States is too much defined by testing and data, says Pasi Sahlberg.

Editor's note: Pasi Sahlberg is visiting professor at HarvardUniversity's Graduate School of Education and former directorgeneral in the Finnish Ministry of Education and Culture. Follow himon Twitter: @pasi_sahlberg. The opinions expressed in thiscommentary are solely those of the writer.

(CNN) -- Millions of American parents spend countless hours tryingto figure out how to help their children get better grades, betterteachers or better schools.

They may want to take a page from Finland, which is considered tohave one of the leading education systems in the world. Finnishstudents consistently score near the top in the Program forInternational Student Assessment, or PISA, for reading, mathematicsand science. The 2012 PISA results tell us that in these threesubjects combined Finland ranks third after Korea and Japan. Incomparison, American students' combined performance in reading,mathematics and science places the United States at 21st among 34Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development countries.

More from CNN:

Why Finland's schools are top-notchBy Pasi Sahlbergupdated 11:10 AM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

SET EDITION: U.S. INTERNATIONAL MÉXICO ARABIC

TV: CNN CNNi CNN en Español HLN

Sign up Log in

TV & Video Money Sports

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Many American parents worryabout their kids getting goodgrades and doing well in school

Pasi Sahlberg: Finland has oneof the leading educationsystems in the world

He says U.S. can learn fromFinland in building an educationsystem that enhances equity

Sahlberg: U.S. educationfocuses on testing and data,which skews teaching priorities

10 works of art thatshocked the world

12 laundry mistakesyou're probablymaking

Musk teasessomething new fromTesla: The D

Mila Kunis andAshton Kutcher'sbaby's name is...

The trouble with y'allmoving to Texas

Why so manychildren aren't ready

SHARE THISPrint

Email

10kRecommendRecommendMore sharing

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 2 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

For some, education in Finland is utopia: a dreamland whereteaching is the most desired profession, authorities trust schools andpolitical parties agree on the direction of educational reforms.

For others, they are surprised to hear that in Finlandchildren don't start school until they are 7 years old. Theyhave less homework than their peers in other countries. Achild's socioeconomic background is less of animpediment to academic performance. And there is onlyone standardized test, which is administered in the finalyear of high school.

What are the main factors that prevent American studentsfrom achieving the kind of success that Finnish students attain?

There are three things that have positively affected the quality ofFinnish schools that are absent in American schools. First, Finlandhas built a school system that has over time strengthenededucational equity. This means early childhood education for allchildren, funding all schools so they can better serve those withspecial educational needs, access to health and well-being servicesfor all children in all schools, and a national curriculum that insiststhat schools focus on the whole child rather than narrow academicachievement.

Opinion: Should schools ban homework?

Second, teachers in Finland have time to work togetherwith their colleagues during the school day. According tothe most recent data provided by the OECD the averageteaching load of junior high school teachers in Finland isabout half what it is in the United States. That enablesteachers to build professional networks, share ideas andbest practices. This is an important condition to enhancingteaching quality.

Finally, play constitutes a significant part of individual growth andlearning in Finnish schools. Every class must be followed by a 15-minute recess break so children can spend time outside on their ownactivities. Schooldays are also shorter in Finland than in the UnitedStates, and primary schools keep the homework load to a minimumso students have time for their own hobbies and friends when schoolis over.

The difference is pronounced in America, where a national poll ofelementary school principals found that up to 40% of U.S. schooldistricts have reduced or eliminated recess in order to free more timefor core academics, and one in four elementary schools no longerprovides recess to all grades.

I hear people often arguing that because the United States is muchbigger, more diverse, and more unequal, it's harder to reach higherquality education. But even if this were true, it would not explain whyin Finland students learn better in their schools than in most otherplaces in the world.

Opinion: Let kids sleep late

Some aspects of the American school system are not helpful inimproving education quality and equity. First, education in the UnitedStates is too much defined by testing and data. If getting the datausing frequent standardized tests occupies up to one-third of all

CNN Money:

Promoted Stories:

Part of complete coverage on

Opinion on the news

Pasi Sahlberg

Spurlock visits Finnish classroom

Voicesby CNN

Read Magazine

for school

2015 Mustang: Ford'spony has new tricks

Branson: Take asmuch vacation as youwant!

Don’t Touch thatKetchup: KeepHealthy by Avoidingthese 8 Germ HavensAARP

School Lunches KidsWill LoveSnip.ly: Social MediaConversion | Home

What's Your ColorPersonality? Find OutHere!BHG

What Your Feet SayAbout Your HealthHealth Central

As it considers next year'sbudget request, Congress hasa responsibility to make thePentagon justify every dollar ofspending it is asking for, writesWilliam Hartung

Pentagon spending getting out of handupdated 3:13 PM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

Danny Cevallos saysquarantining people, deprivingthem of liberty, is justified toprotect the interests of society

Protecting against Ebola trumpspersonal libertyupdated 9:42 PM EDT, Sun October 5, 2014

Julian Zelizer says theMassachusetts senator hasjust been handed a giantpolitical opportunity -- secrettapes on U.S. regulation ofGoldman Sachs

This is Elizabeth Warren's momentupdated 1:41 PM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

Get proactive about screening for

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 3 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

More Promoted StoriesWhat Your Feet Say About Your Health HealthCentral

What You Won’t Learn about Your Kid fromHer Teacher Reader's Digest

how to budget your money: the 50/20/30 ruleLearnVest

More from CNNOccupy Central is bigger than Hong Kong

Woman sees baby in hot car, breaks window

New Jersey boy went to bed fine, didn't wakeup -- due to enterovirus D68

available time to teach, that will alone prevent students from makingthe marks they should.

Second, American education places too much faith in marketplacechoice, which parents have because of expanded access to charterschools. This weakens the public school structure that is fundamentalto many successful education systems elsewhere.

Finally, more students in America have novice or nonprofessionalteachers in their classrooms today than ever. Frequent turnover ofteachers in thousands of American schools undermines the entireeducation system.

What would be the way forward then? The United States can'tbecome Finland, but there is a lot it can learn about what works andwhat doesn't.

One affordable and smart step would be to terminate policies andpractices that prevent American teachers from teaching what mattersmost to their students. Redesigning current punitive accountability forschools and abolishing unnecessary standardized tests wouldremove a big burden from schools and leave teachers with more timeto focus on real learning.

Opinion: Get schools out of the 1890s

The ultimate test for the American education system will be whetherit can bring equity to the forefront of education policies. When povertyexplains up to half of student achievement, schools must havemeasures to better cope with the harmful consequences thatdisadvantaged family backgrounds have on teaching and learning inmany schools. Enhancing equity has been one key to success inFinland.

Read CNNOpinion's new Flipboard magazine

Follow us on Twitter @CNNOpinion.

Join us on Facebook.com/CNNOpinion.

Promoted Stories Recommended by

A Ridiculously SimpleWay to Pay OffMortgageBills.com

What Your Feet SayAbout Your HealthHealth Central

Dogs That WillDestroy Your LifePuppy Toob

10 Worst CollegeMajors for Today’sJob MarketBusiness Cheat Sheet

Sen. Rob Portman says it'stime to move from passive toactive screening for thedisease at U.S. airports

Ebolaupdated 9:03 AM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

Carol Costello says the notionthat men are provoked toassault by revealing clothes isa convenient, troubling myth

'Sexy' clothes don't excuse sexualviolenceupdated 3:12 PM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

Paul Callan says governmenthas sweeping power tosuspend individual rights toprotect the larger society

Ebola quarantine is perfectly legalupdated 2:38 PM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

Jeffrey Toobin says that by nothearing five states' same-sexmarriage challenges, theSupreme Court allowsmarriage equality to continueits march toward being law ofthe land

How Supreme Court's non-decisionhelps gay marriageupdated 5:07 PM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

That depends on how youunderstand the context ofScripture, says Jay Parini. Butthere's good reason to thinkJesus would have preachedacceptance

Would Jesus OK same-sex marriage?updated 8:45 PM EDT, Fri October 3, 2014

Gov. Bobby Jindal and formerSen. Jim Talent say that bypreferring to lead from behind,President Obama has allowedglobal threats to fester

Why strong defense is critical toAmericaupdated 8:36 AM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

Pasi Sahlberg says Americacan learn from Finland, whichhas one of the leadingeducation systems in the world

Why Finland's schools are top-notchupdated 11:10 AM EDT, Mon October 6, 2014

Law enforcement overreactedin saying Apple's encryption isa major form of protection forcriminals, says Bruce Schneier

Stop the hysteria over Appleencryptionupdated 12:41 PM EDT, Sat October 4, 2014

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 4 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Tiny Houses Have A Not-So-Tiny ProblemFast Company

An Extremely Brilliant Way To Pay OffMortgage Bills.com

10 Signs You Respect Me As An EmployeeFast Company

Bachelorette party missing in Cabo

Clinton acknowledges what we all knew

Powerful solar storm headed to Earth

Recommended by

4172 Comments CNN Login

Sort by Best Share ⤤

Join the discussion…

• Reply •

Al Gore • 9 hours ago

Notice there is absolutely no mention of a culture in the U.S. among certaindemographics where parents and students don't value learning. if this author isn'tgoing to even mention that giant pink elephant in the room, then that takes away allhis credibility. You can't add funding and solve that problem.

794△ ▽

• Reply •

Tommy48235 • 9 hours ago> Al Gore

Or another certain demographic that doesn't believe in science.

625△ ▽

• Reply •

Heka • 9 hours ago> Tommy48235

Hear, hear.We must throw all of our funding into one pot as well. We can't expectto cannibalize the horrendously low funds for public education throughcharter education and still expect results. One or the other, not both.

72△ ▽

• Reply •

Cooramoor • 9 hours ago> Heka

Charter schools take no funding from public schools. Funding isprovided on a per capita student basis. Heck, the public schoolseven get to keep the $$ when a child leaves to go to a charterschool. They create this thing called competition. Perhaps thepublic schools should take a page out of the book?

120△ ▽

wjshelton • 9 hours ago> Cooramoor

That is disingenuous. The moneys allotted for charterschools on a per capita student basis are moneys thatare taken out of the pool for public schools, thus,effectively reducing the amount of money available forpublic schools. That is true no matter how you spend it.And that is just for openers. There are many issues withcharter schools, which include not being subject to thesame standard that public schools are subjected to

Favorite ★

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Sponsored Links

Anti-Aging Remedy for $5?74 Year Old Mom Outsmarts BotoxDoctors. Saves On Facelift

0% Interest Until 2016A Complete List Of Credit CardsOffering 0% Interest Until 2016

Choose Your Free CardEnter promo code CARD4U toreceive 1 free card of your choice.

Buy a link here

Does the security approach ofIceland toward its presidenthave any lessons for the U.S.?John Sutter takes a look

If the White House were like Iceland'supdated 9:33 AM EDT, Sat October 4, 2014

Frida Ghitis says let's hopethat Hong Kong protesterswon't face a repeat of whathappened at TiananmenSquare

Hong Kong protesters face tough oddsupdated 10:59 AM EDT, Fri October 3, 2014

Jeffrey Robinson says theSecret Service needs to returnto stricter Reagan-eraprotocols that prioritizedintense protection for thePresident

How to make President safe againupdated 1:20 PM EDT, Fri October 3, 2014

CDC Director Tom Frieden isconfident that Ebola will nottake hold in the U.S., butcautions we must keep upefforts to eliminate the diseasein west Africa.

Why U.S. can stop Ebola in its tracksupdated 5:43 PM EDT, Thu October 2, 2014

Ashley Judd and Karl Hofmannsay the U.S. is more capableof thwarting Ebola epidemicthan much of the world, whichurgently needs help buildinghealth care systems

Judd: Ebola, and health care's 'Achillesheel'updated 10:18 AM EDT, Fri October 3, 2014

The Ebola case in Texas mightcatalyze the U.S. and the restof the world to help stop thiscrisis, says John Sutter.

The upside of Ebola in Dallasupdated 6:56 PM EDT, Thu October 2, 2014

Former U.S. ambassador JonHuntsman says China hasclosed off all political optionsand made it increasingly clearthat it intends to call the shots.

China's Hong Kong dilemmaupdated 11:53 AM EDT, Thu October 2, 2014

Stanley McChrystal andKristina Talbert-Slagle: Ebolaand ISIS are global challengesthat mask deeper problems.

How to treat threats of Ebola and ISISupdated 7:15 PM EDT, Wed October 1, 2014

Can America handle the truth?updated 11:16 AM EDT, Thu October 2, 2014

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 5 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply •

same standard that public schools are subjected to(teacher certification, curriculum, etc.)

I am not making this claim as a layman. I have someknowledge and understanding of how education works inthe US. I am, after all, a retired public school teacher whohas watched my profession and my fellow teachersbecome the targets of relentless attacks over the pastseveral decades. Certain sectors of the political right loveto spend their time undermining public education anddemoralizing its professionals as a way of promoting theiragenda of privatizing another public responsibility sosomeone can make money on it.

223△ ▽

• Reply •

TomFromVa • 8 hours ago> wjshelton

I respect teachers. However, the problem is that thepublic schools did not exactly distinguish themselvesprior to the charter school boom. Test scores have notbudged in response to massive funding increases, andthe NEA appears far more concerned with enforcingseniority and tenure (and electing Democrats) than witheducating students.

53△ ▽

• Reply •

mattwend • 6 hours ago> TomFromVa

Did you miss the point that test scores are not a valuableway to determine quality education? Also, states (andschools) with strong NEA organizations tend to performbetter, not worse, than schools with little unioninvolvement.

29△ ▽

• Reply •

phearis • 6 hours ago> mattwend

@TomFromVA - Massive Funding Increases?!?!? Arethese "Mythical Massive Funding Increases" why myfriend had to spend $700, out of her own pocket, forschool supplies for her students?? Are you high or justreally REALLY stupid?

Also, you bash Democrats but it was Republicans thattried to block a school funding bill last year and are tryingagain this year, right now. And they have reduced fundingfor schools by 15% in the last 10 years. So much for your"Massive Funding Increases" rant.

15△ ▽

• Reply •

TomFromVa • 5 hours ago> phearis

The funding increases are real - they just dont get appliedvery well. In my area we have spent damnear a billiondollars tearing down and then rebuilding new schoolbuildings in the last 10 years, and not a wiggle in testscore improvement.

14△ ▽

LeRoy_Was_Here • 4 hours ago> TomFromVa

A high school in my area spent more than a million dollarsnot too many years ago installing an Olympic-size

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Eric Liu says patriotism isn'tabout denying a country'sfaults, but about pointing tohow it could get better.

James Moore sayseverybody's moving to Texas.But they might not be ready fordrought and 10-lane trafficjams.

The trouble with y'all moving to Texasupdated 10:57 AM EDT, Wed October 1, 2014

Julian Zelizer says JimmyCarter's message about theneed to restore trust in publicofficials is a vital one, decadesafter the now 90-year-old hefirst voiced it

What Jimmy Carter did rightupdated 3:47 PM EDT, Wed October 1, 2014

Ford Vox says mistakes andmissed opportunities along theline to a diagnosis of Ebola ina Liberian man have put Dallasresidents at risk of fatalinfection

Ebola reaches U.S.: A tragedy of errorsupdated 9:09 AM EDT, Thu October 2, 2014

Pepper Schwartz saysCalifornia is trying, but its lawrequiring step-by-step consentis just not the way hot andheavy sex proceeds on collegecampuses

Can the law requiring 'yes' for sexwork?updated 9:11 AM EDT, Thu October 2, 2014

Steve Israel saysJohnBoehner's Congress and thetea party will be rememberedfor shutting down governmentone year ago

Steve Israel: The legacy GOP wantsyou to forgetupdated 5:39 PM EDT, Wed October 1, 2014

Mike Downey says long-suffering fans, waiting for goodplayoff news since 1985, finallyget something to cheer about

Why Kansas City is making noiseupdated 10:17 PM EDT, Wed October 1, 2014

Yep. You read the headlineright, says Peter Bergen,writing on the new governmentthat stresses national unity

An Afghan miracleupdated 8:37 AM EDT, Sat October 4, 2014

Another freedom group abandoned byU.S.updated 7:12 PM EDT, Wed October 1, 2014

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 6 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply • One other person is typing…

swimming pool, although they have some of the lowesttest scores and lowest teacher salaries in the state.

Priorities??

11△ ▽

• Reply •

Common Cents • 4 hours ago> LeRoy_Was_Here

Sounds like administration should be swapped out andteachers left alone to do their jobs.

3△ ▽

• Reply •

mattwend • 4 hours ago> LeRoy_Was_Here

Different sources of funding.

1△ ▽

• Reply •

bguest • 2 hours ago> LeRoy_Was_Here

One near me (Asbury Park) put in a new 10 Million dollarstadium.

△ ▽

• Reply •

goltan • 4 hours ago> TomFromVa

Americans put too much damn effort in the appearanceof schools and colleges. Ideally there would bestandardization of school construction and funding likemost countries. Some are literally palaces!

4△ ▽

• Reply •

mattwend • 4 hours ago> goltan

Good luck with developing that standardizationconsidering construction standards would vary greatlydepending on location. For example, in Florida, youwould need to build to withstand hurricanes and inCalifornia to withstand earthquakes. In North Dakota,they would need to be built to handle extreme cold andsnow. My school district had architects develop plans foran elementary 20 plus years ago and they've beenworking with the same plan, with updated standards,from then on. It still costs big bucks every time a new oneis built. Standardizing the construction would beimpossible if only because available building materialsand need for heating and air conditioning.

1△ ▽

• Reply •

Fallen Kell • 2 hours ago> TomFromVa

I think that simply shows that a building doesn't make aschool. You can have the best building and equipment inthe world, but if you don't have an instructor who knowshow to use those tools and don't have students whowant to learn, well, you can't fix the problem by creatingthat new building. There is an old saying "when the pupilis ready, the master will appear". Without a student whowants to learn, a teacher can not really do anything.

2△ ▽

Paul the Fossil • an hour ago> phearis

In reality the U.S. now leads every other large nation inpublic education operational (not capital) spending per

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Hong Kong's pro-democracydemonstrators are but thelatest freedom group to beabandoned by the Obamaadministration, says MikeGonzalez

Sponsored LinksThe #1 Worst Carb Ever?Click to Learn #1 Carb that Kills Your BloodSugar (Don’t Eat This!) FixYourBloodSugar.com

Anti-Aging Remedy for $5?74 Year Old Mom Outsmarts Botox Doctors.Saves On Faceliftwww.regionalhealthresearch.com

Top 10 Dividend ETFsInvestors Guide: The Top 10 High DividendPaying ETFs for 2014.www.InvestmentU.com/ETFs

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 7 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply •

pupil, and by large margins. In fact proportionately thedistance between the U.S. per-pupil funding and theOECD average is greater on public education than it is onhealth care spending.

The U.S. also spends much more per pupil than do mostsmall nations, for example according to the OECD wespend about 150% of what Finland does per pupil. Eventhe lowest-spending U.S. states now spend more perpupil than the OECD (rich-nation) average.

(This wasn't always the case, it reflects a couplegenerations of steady increases on the U.S.'s part: publicschool spending nationwide is today more thanquadruple, after inflation and per pupil, what it was in1964. Average per-pupil expenditure at U.S. publicschools has increased in 47 of the last 50 individual years.)

How that level of spending somehow still leads toteachers buying school supplies out of their own pockets,which I know of firsthand too, is a damned interestingquestion. It again reminds of the situation regardinghealth care.

△ ▽

• Reply •

antonio • 5 hours ago> mattwend

Test scores are not a valuable way to determine qualityeducation? Why is quality so high at places where testscores are so high? Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc., etc.This is the problem with education in America - we'retrying to convince ourselves that tests don't matter, andI'd bet it's b/c we performing poorly on math and sciencetests. If we had the highest scores, we'd be screamingand crying about why tests are so important...

17△ ▽

• Reply •

Jim • 4 hours ago> antonio

Test scores only tell you how a student performed ONTHAT DAY. Give the test again in a week and you'll get adifferent result. Did the child sleep well? Did the child'sparents argue the night before? Did the child get a goodbreakfast? All of these external factor effect testingoutcomes. A single high stakes test is the worst way toevaluate a student.

15△ ▽

• Reply •

antonio • 4 hours ago> Jim

Scores will vary, but not by much, thus the informationwe get from scores is still very informative. What do youthink would happen if we let people who scored low onthe SAT attend Harvard? Many would fail out. Why?Because test scores matter. Also, the assumption thatthey don't matter means that there is no need to test. Isthat really what you're proposing? No more tests? Hmm.

5△ ▽

R43d99 • 4 hours ago> Jim

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 8 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply •

R43d99 • 4 hours ago> Jim

Std testing should work well for 10th grade and 12thgrade either federally or stately. In that both publicschools and charter schools should participate. In India, public schools always do well in std testing forboth 10 and 12th grade than Charter schools.Rest of the grades std testing should be based on theschool model, if we do that, we can improve the quality ofeducation here in this country..

2△ ▽

• Reply •

JSB • 15 minutes ago> Jim

Test scores are indeed a snapshot. If I have 20 snapshotsof you and 20 of 20 show that you not only don't knowwhat is on the test but that you score worse than if youhad guessed your way through it... I have a prettyaccurate 'snapshot' of your deficiencies. Similarly If youconsistently score in the top 5% we have a pretty goodway of saying that you scored in the top 5% andprobably know your stuff.

△ ▽

• Reply •

oldguy68 • an hour ago> Jim

I presume you are talking about the ACT and SAT. Thesetests can be taken many times (although I personallydoubt their value, except that a very low score seems tobe a good predictor of failure)

△ ▽

• Reply •

RetiredHappy • 2 hours ago> Jim

You're right. A lot of outside factors are at work, day in,day out.

△ ▽

• Reply •

CAnnie • 4 hours ago> Jim

EXACTLY!!!!!

△ ▽

• Reply •

randal thor • 3 hours ago> CAnnie

Okay cannie were going to let the enginnersthat build thebridges you drive across not be tested, or th surgeon thatoperates on you. As long as they try hard that is goodenough.

1△ ▽

• Reply •

CAnnie • 13 minutes ago> randal thor

Did I say not testing at all and trying hard "goodenough"? Not even close, Einstein.

△ ▽

disqus_eTOmyHE4Re • 4 hours ago> antonio

My son has a 140 plus IQ. He rarely misses a testquestion in class. He also has ADHD. His standardizedtests scores fluctuates between the sixties and the highnineties. As a result, he was excluded from the giftedprogram at his school. He doesn't fit the box. Myhusband went through a gifted program when he was akid and does not think it is necessary. He is also a public

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 9 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply •

kid and does not think it is necessary. He is also a publicschool teacher. These tests are a day in the life of a child.Someday my boy is going to come back and blow thesepeople away. We don't need more boxes to tick. Weneed to teach the child and bring out their abilities.Inspire them to learn. Do not just strive to bring up thebottom.

12△ ▽

• Reply •

antonio • 4 hours ago> disqus_eTOmyHE4Re

Your kid represents a small portion of the population (notonly in terms of his intelligence, but how it varies overtime). Schools make accommodations for these types ofsituations. For most students, a test is not just a day inthe life of a child - that is, students who score highly havea tendency to score highly, and students who scorepoorly have a tendency to score poorly (even aftermultiple tests/days). When you say your kid will comeback and blow people away, you seem to be referring tohis performance on a test, but earlier in your post youargue against testing. Seems a bit contradictory. Listen,just be happy your child is gifted b/c if he scores in thenineties, the he will likely be very productive andsuccessful in life, and many folks are not blessed withthat sort of capability. Regarding the end of your post, wehave to do both (can't have one without the other)...

2△ ▽

• Reply •

disqus_eTOmyHE4Re • 3 hours ago> antonio

Thanks. That was completely my point. Sometimes youcan use facts as a point and not just to brag. If you thinkhaving ADHD and an high IQ is something easy, I inviteyou to live with me for awhile. It's a challenge. And when Irefer to blowing people away, I'm referring to what he willdo later in life. Hopefully, maturity and coping skills willhelp him overcome his deficits.

3△ ▽

• Reply •

antonio • 2 hours ago> disqus_eTOmyHE4Re

I have ADHD (and a PhD from a prestigious school in adifficult area of specialization), so I can empathize withwhat you're saying. Sometimes when I work, I can't getanything done, other times, I can get so much done sofast (so I suppose it averages out). My standardized testscores also varied quite a bit (from percentiles in the mid-70s to 90s), similar to your son. Instead of being placed ina gifted and talented program, I was placed in special edbecause of behavioral issues (classes moved too slow, soI became bored and distracting). Of course we all haveour unique challenges (life is not easy for most), but I canassure you that having high intelligence is a blessing,even if it comes and goes in spurts.

3△ ▽

disqus_eTOmyHE4Re • 18 minutes ago> antonio

Thank you for your story. It gives me hope that my sonwill turn out just fine. As a parent it can be frustrating tosee so much potential just brushed aside. Our

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 10 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply •

see so much potential just brushed aside. OurNeuropsych keeps telling me he will be a " rock star"once he can pick his field. Sounds much like you. He is asweet amazing little boy. His current obsession is MarineBiology.

△ ▽

• Reply •

antonio • 15 minutes ago> disqus_eTOmyHE4Re

Normally I wouldn't disclose so much, but this isanonymous, so what the heck! Funny thing - marinebiology was my first passion, too, but I ended up doingeconomics (I'm currently a professor and consultant).Your son will be fine (it sounds like he has a very caringmother, which will be a great help)! :-)

△ ▽

• Reply •

dkmich • 2 hours ago> disqus_eTOmyHE4Re

Oh but.. Bill Gates needs more worker drones to fill hiscorporate jobs.

1△ ▽

• Reply •

Miss Y • 3 hours ago> disqus_eTOmyHE4Re

Nice brag - we're all VERY impressed

△ ▽

• Reply •

asfdasfsagsdfg • an hour ago> disqus_eTOmyHE4Re

Will these people you have made into your son's enemieswithout his knowing or consent even have the attentionspan to remember to do this? Sounds like your littlesnowflake doesn't get the challenges he needs at home. Irecommend we send him off to foster care. See how wellhe does flitting around the room when people are chasinghim with belts and starving him.

△ ▽

• Reply •

BillA • an hour ago> disqus_eTOmyHE4Re

I was one of the kids who did not fit into the box atschool. I had lived with my grandparents around firstgrade. Grandad was an engineer and taught me a a lot ofscience and math. I also was taught to read at a moreadvanced level. So by the time I was in third grade, Icould read anything in the library. The library books werecolor coded by grade level. I actually got in trouble withmy teacher for checking out a 6th grade level book. I alsohad been taught some mathematical tools like basic trig,PI, and logs. Well according to the teacher, I should havenot learned those concepts yet..

△ ▽

bguest • an hour ago> BillA

Some teachers just dont like it when there is somethingout of normal. I had to fight to have my son tested at anew school because the school did not want to place himwhere he belonged. They eventually did and told us theywould get back to us after grading the test. We did noteven leave the parking lot before we got a call asking usto come back because he aced the test and they needed

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 11 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply •

to give him another. They are much more accomodatingnow but it took a big push and honestly some help inadvocating.

△ ▽

• Reply •

Fallen Kell • 4 hours ago> antonio

I think what the mattwend was getting to is the fact thatthe tests being given are not a quality performancemetric. It doesn't help that we have a large political groupthat is doing everything to undermine science educationin this country, trying to redefine the meanings behind"current leading accepted scientific theory" to mean thatits just a "theory" like any other theory, neither proved,nor disproved, and that other theories should be givenequal educational weight... When that is ABSOLUTELYWRONG! Sure something like evolution is controversial toyour religion, but guess what, it is the only scientifictheory that is accepted and has no scientific evidencethat proves it wrong, and plenty that supports it ascorrect. Yet, these people want to give just as manypages/paragraphs of study material to other "quote"theories on the subject, when if they gave those othertheories the proportional weighting of pages in the studymaterial as there are scientists, and support papers thatbelieve in the theory, they wouldn't even be able to writethe name of the theory in the book (or the book wouldhave to have several thousands of pages about evolutionand then 1 sentence about their "alternate").

2△ ▽

• Reply •

Jodo • 6 hours ago> mattwend

Quality can only be measured through consistent,meaningful metrics. Uniform testing is a viable metric.Counting the number of happy teachers is not.

15△ ▽

• Reply •

Ryan Blennert • 6 hours ago> Jodo

The problem with what you are talking about is that youare treating students like an end product from a business.A business can choose what products they take in tomake their product and when the product does not meettheir standards they can toss them out and call it a badbatch (quality control). The aim is to put the best productout into society. Public Schools are not allowed to dothat. They take all students at the front door and all oftheir different backgrounds and attempt to make aneducated citizen. A business model does not work for apublic school.

24△ ▽

Tank • 5 hours ago> Ryan Blennert

Finland doesn't toss out students that do not meet theirstandards, they help the child to meet the standards, andyet, they are still performing better than Americanschools. Testing IS a viable way to measure progress, but toomuch testing is counter productive. Finland does use a

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 12 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

• Reply •

standardized test before graduation--ONE test, not yearlytesting.

13△ ▽

• Reply •

TomFromVa • 5 hours ago> mattwend

So which is it - states with strong NEA organizations havebetter test scores, or test scores are meaningless? Youseem unaware that you have contradicted yourself.Clearly the product of an inferior education.

4△ ▽

• Reply •

Whatever... • 4 hours ago> TomFromVa

I have seen, in several locations, with several children,that schools with teachers in unions have been much lesscapable than schools with teachers not in a union. That isjust personal experience.......wonder why that is?

1△ ▽

• Reply •

mattwend • 5 hours ago> TomFromVa

Actually, that is my point. How do you know education isbetter or worse? And, where is proof that unions makeeducation worse?

△ ▽

• Reply •

LeRoy_Was_Here • 4 hours ago> mattwend

In California, there is a public high school math teacherwho could not compute 80% of 80. She still has a job,despite being totally incompetent, because the unionsprotect her job.

I teach at a charter school, one of America's most highly-ranked schools. I do so because a major kahuna in ourmajor teachers' union took a look at my resume and said,sadly, "Mr. ____, you have FAR too much education to bea good teacher."

That was a very revealing comment. The public schoolswant teachers who struggled in math themselves, so thatthey can 'relate' to their students. They actually do notWANT expert mathematicians teaching math to ourchildren.

5△ ▽

Fallen Kell • 4 hours ago> LeRoy_Was_Here

To be fair, they also can't PAY for expert mathematiciansto teach math. When was the last time in grade school,middle school, or high school you addressed yourteacher as Dr. in a public school? I was glad my parentswere well off enough to be able to send me to privateschool, were we had several Dr.'s teaching in theschools, both in the arts and sciences. I can tell you for afact that they helped much more so than you canimagine. If you were struggling, they could on the flyrephrase the questions to get you to look at it from adifferent angle of attack. They also impaired in us thecuriosity that is truly needed to actually get an education.Straight up memorizing facts and answers does not makeyou educated. Knowing HOW those facts and answers

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

10/6/14 6:51 PMWhy Finland's schools are top-notch (Opinion) - CNN.com

Page 13 of 13http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/opinion/sahlberg-finland-education/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Load more comments

• Reply •

you educated. Knowing HOW those facts and answerscame to be is what makes you educated...

2△ ▽

• Reply •

Miss Y • 3 hours ago> Fallen Kell

You need an expert mathematician to know how tocalculate 80% of 80? LOL!

1△ ▽

• Reply •

Fallen Kell • 2 hours ago> Miss Y

Compared to the person who couldn't do it, yes, thatperson would be an expert mathematician. Eisensteinneeded an expert mathematician all the time (or felt thatway). And your case of getting 80% of 80 is exactly whyexperts are needed, to be able to do more than read thebook and if a question comes up that is not strictly in thebook, they can answer it. For many positions, that mightnot be an issue, usually low level math, reading, andspelling. But once you start getting into fractions,percentages, algebra, geometry, science, and history,you really need experts. There was a study not too longago showing how bad the general population is withusing fractions and percentages. This goes back tohaving a good teacher who understood it...

△ ▽

• Reply •

bguest • 2 hours ago> Miss Y

Hopefully you learned more than that in grade school.

△ ▽

Subscribe✉ Add Disqus to your sited Privacy

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

Share ›

74° HI 75° LO 58°Atlanta, GA Weather forecast

CNN en ESPAÑOL | CNN México | CNN Chile | CNN Expansión

日本語 | Türkçe | العربية

CNN TV | HLN | Transcripts |

© 2014 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Terms of service | Privacy guidelines | Ad choices | Advertise with us | About us | Work for us | Help

CNN Newsource | License Footage

Home | Video | U.S. | World | Politics | Justice | Entertainment | Tech | Health | Living | Travel | Opinion | iReport | Money | Sports

Tools & widgets | RSS | Podcasts | Blogs | CNN mobile | My profile | E-mail alerts | Desktop Alerts | CNN shop | Site map | Contact us