6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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Charlie Shrem at Ben's Deli in Manhattan (Ken Kurson)

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6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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O

Charlie Shrem giveshis thoughts on thebull run | Modern

Consensus InterviewThe crypto pioneer gives his take on

Bitcoin’s market comeback andFacebook’s Libra

By Martine Paris / June 25, 2019

ver the weekend, Bitcoin crossed into $11K

territory, and with it the hopes and dreams of

the many faithful who have been holding

onto it through the long crypto winter of the past 15

months. Could this be the beginning of a bull run that

will take us to $20,000 and beyond? Or is there market

manipulation at play?

I had a chance to talk with crypto visionary, Charlie

Shrem, best known for pioneering the buying, selling,

and spending of Bitcoin at hundreds of retail locations

including CVS, Duane Reade, 7-Eleven, Walmart, and

Walgreens. Backed by legendary investors Roger Ver

and the Winklevoss twins, his company BitInstant was

the largest Bitcoin retailer in the world – until they were

shut down for operating without a money transmitter

license when the law changed during the 2013 market

frenzy. Soon after, Shrem was charged with, and

pleaded guilty to, violating anti-money laundering laws

for selling more than $1 million in Bitcoin to a BitInstant

user who was funding illicit activity on the Silk Road

6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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marketplace. At the time, taking a freedom fighter

stance, he said he knew what he was doing was wrong,

“They got a bitcoiner.”

Now the host of Untold Stories, a podcast on the crypto

revolution, Shrem has been outspoken on factors

affecting the rise of Bitcoin. He tweets frequently and is

often interviewed by top journalists such as by

Anderson Cooper on 60 Minutes last month. The

following is an edited transcript of our discussion:

MARTINE PARIS: Bitcoin broke through $11,000 thisweekend, what do you think is driving this rally?

CHARLIE SHREM: There are a lot of reasons. You can’t

look at correlation and causation. Basically, the price

was in a bear market for a very long time, and now a lot

of people don’t think Bitcoin is going away. At this point

enough people have accumulated, enough people have

bought, and everyone who was going to sell, sold. It’s

just how market cycles work. I think anywhere between

$10,000 and $20,000 is still a given, and I think this rally

goes way above $20,000 in a very short period of time.

Facebook and their consortium of friends whichincludes some of the most powerful companies inthe world – such as Visa, Mastercard, Uber, Lyft,Spotify, Andreessen Horowitz, and others –announced Tuesday, June 18, that they are planningto launch a new global cryptocurrency designedspecifically for payments in early 2020. Do you thinkthe Libra announcement caused this bull run inBitcoin?

I think Libra is definitely creating a conversation for the

normal, non-crypto savvy human beings who see

Facebook coming into cryptocurrency and are excited

about it. On top of that, the price is going up so it’s

6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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causing more people to buy. Also the fact that Libra is

not out yet and won’t be viable for years, if ever. People

who want to get involved in crypto see that Bitcoin right

now is the only option. There’s a lot of FOMO [fear of

missing out] going on.

Do you think the bull run is being fueled by the factthat it’s so easy to purchase Bitcoin these days?

It’s true. You can buy crypto at a million places around

the world. It’s so easy to buy Bitcoin now. It’s so easy to

sell Bitcoin. Everyone I know holding Bitcoin is earning

interest of six to seven percent, so you can have the

upside of Bitcoin while earning interest. People love

that. There’s no reason not to own some Bitcoin, and it

doesn’t need to be large amounts – just like one or two

Bitcoins, $10,000 to $20,000. It’s a significant amount of

money but can easily turn into life-changing money.

And if you lose $10,000, to many, it’s not the end of the

world.

You can also buy just a small fraction of a Bitcoin.On Square Crypto you can buy it for $5. It’s easier tobuy it now, and it’s also easier to spend.

Sure, spending is important, but knowing you have the

ability to spend it is even more important. The value of

knowing you can cash out anywhere in the world into

the dollars or whatever currency you want, at anytime

instantly, is why this is so important. Not only are

people interested in spending it at retailers, but if you’re

traveling around the world and need cash quick, the

ability to do that is the more important factor here.

Do you think that with the current political climatea lot of people are thinking that Bitcoin is a smartinvestment?

Yes.

6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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Bitcoin was meant to be an escape from rogueregimes and institutions. What happens when 2.7billion people adopt a currency that’s no longercontrolled by a government, but rather by aconsortium of companies, like Skynet?

It begs the question, who do we trust more? Do we trust

companies that are incentivized by profit? As much as

we don’t like privacy issues on Facebook, do we trust

Facebook more? Or do we trust our government more?

Unfortunately, the government has forged this message

over the past ten years that you don’t have a choice,

there are no other options. “We are the government,

you have to trust us. Have a nice day.” For now,

companies like Facebook and these other major

corporations are basically saying, “We’ll start with

money here, you do have a choice.” Who do you trust

more, the government or do you trust the consortium

of some of the largest companies in the world who are

incentivized by money? And if you don’t like these

companies anymore, you stop using them and they stop

making money.

What are your thoughts on the challenges to Libraand the path to adoption? G7 has convened a taskforce to ensure that the Libra Association does notpose a threat by operating a shadow bank thatskirts regulation. The U.S. House of Representativeshas voiced concerns over the potentialunprecedented impact that the scale of Facebook’splatform could have on the global financial system.How easy is it going to be for Facebook and friendsto be compliant and not run afoul of anti-moneylaundering laws?

I think you’re going to see some secret settlement

between the G7 and Facebook and friends giving

6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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governments a golden key into Libra to do whatever

they want to do. It likely will be something similar to a

Red Notice by Interpol, making it possible for the G7 to

freeze the account of whomever, whatever, without any

due process.

Many consider a major impediment to living onchain in the United States the fact that thepurchase of everyday goods with crypto is a taxableevent. What are your thoughts?

Right now, there’s no clarity on what in crypto is taxable.

About a month ago, Congress wrote a letter to the IRS,

so they’re working on it. What we do know is crypto is

property that gets taxed like capital gains. That’s pretty

clear, but in terms of all the smaller, nuanced stuff

about crypto and taxes, we just don’t know. Clarity is

great in every aspect. Clarity is great with regulation.

Clarity is fantastic with taxes. Most crypto people want

to pay taxes, it just takes a lot of time and effort to

figure it out.

Do you think that Bitcoin has been subject tomarket manipulation by major players?

If we’re comparing Bitcoin to traditional markets, the

longer a market exists and the more mature it is, the

harder it is to manipulate that market. The Bitcoin

markets are extremely immature and young, so yes, you

can manipulate the Bitcoin market with large amounts

of money that you don’t want to have anymore, but I

don’t see what economic incentive there would be to do

so, especially how difficult it is to do nowadays.

Do you think we’ve seen manipulation in the pastyear, like with the spike at April Fools or overMemorial Day weekend, or the flash crash overThanksgiving last year?

6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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Yes, I think people have tried but the only person who

loses is the person trying to do it. When you see a flash

crash, it’s a great buying opportunity. When you see a

crazy pump, it’s a great selling opportunity, then buy

back lower. For prudent investors who are holding,

there are interest rate opportunities. It’s only a bad

thing for people that are actually doing the

manipulation itself.

We started the year in a bear market for crypto andnow we’re on a tear. How do you see the yearevolving?

You’re going to see a movie, like Bitcoin Billionaires by

Ben Mezrich, and there will be a lot of mainstreaming

and legitimization. There’s so little Bitcoin to buy, there’s

not enough Bitcoin in the world for every millionaire in

the United States to own just one. That’s why I tell

people own one, two, three, four Bitcoin. It’s life-

changing money.

MARTINE PARIS"

! " & ' ( )

7-Eleven bitcoin Charlie Shrem CVS

Duane Reade Facebook Libra Martine Paris

Skynet Walgreens Walmart

6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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Bitcoin

tycoon goofs

on author,

leading to

$1.6 million

in donationsDecember 15, 2017

Comedian

accurately

portrays

bitcoin

fanboys with

painful

precisionDecember 21, 2017

More

pointless

bitcoin price

predictions

are here just

in time for

2018December 27, 2017

Martine Paris is a Silicon Valley tech reporter who

follows the money across AI, robotics, gaming, crypto,

and blockchain. Disclosure: She owns an insignificant

amount of crypto. Follow her on Twitter.

Y O U M A Y A L S O L I K E

∠

6/25/19, 10*19 AMWith bitcoin at $11K, Charlie Shrem gives his thoughts on the bull run | Modern Consensus Interview | Modern Consensus.

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