1

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASI [of 2]-Summary-RetypedDecember 11^ 1961 Also present; William Russell

(Interview conducted at home of Worthia Thomas; 2316Washington Avenue, New Olreans, La.)

Worthia George Thomas received the nickname "Showboy"

because he was a good show drummer? he played drums for 171.

years [mostly] curing the Twenties, traveling with various

carnival shows. He was born in Napoleonville, Louisiana, on

February 26 (same birtt-iday as WR), 1907; he has lived in New

Orleans for 41 years. Four uncles [maternal] played music;

two were conservatory-trained. The uncles and tlieir instruments:

Gil [sp?]LeBlanc^ guitar a,nd violin? Justin LeBlanc/ bass violin

and violin; Adolpti LeBlanc/ guitar 7 Marshall LeBlanc/ piano.

All lived in Napoleonville. WT's mother sang* The first music

WT remembers was that of a brass band, led by Claiborne Williams,

of Donaldsonville, La. (about 16 miles from Napoleonville)r

the band played for parades? WT was about 8 years old fet the

time. The band played only regular marches, not swinging like

the N.O. brass bands. The Williams band(15 pieces) played the/

parade for the Odd Fellows; that organization also held a dance

that night; Williams used only 7 pieces for that function. The

band played a variety of music; they played almost the dame

style of music that today is called Dixieland, but they called itff

jazz then. Asked about quadriiles^ WT says that when he was

playing drums witli John Tunking's band in Natchitoches, La.

(near Alexandria, La.), they would play "Bye Bye Blackbird" for

the older people to dance the quadrille to; they played it fairly

slowly, in a choppy style. (WR mentions Madame Synigal and her

quadrille dancers, who performed on the boat [President] a few

2

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY11 THOMASI [of 2] -Summary--RetypedDecember 11^ 1961

years ago [1958-PRC] for a Dave Garroway television sl^ow;

Lizzie Miles and Paul Barbarin were among the other entertainerso)

WT was Turning's drummer for seven years;/ Tunking was from

Alexandria? WT played at Tunking*s funeral/ then returned to

N.0. In Napoleonville, fhere was a band led by Doctor Nelson

(died about 1 month ago, says WR) , fatTier of Louis Nelson

[trombone] and George Nelson [tenor sax, retired]; his wife

(a graduate of Boston Conservatory, says -WR) was the only music

teacher in Napoleonviller she 1'iad a band there. WT played his

first music job, in Napoleonville, with Louis and George

Nelson. Bill Smothers [sp?]^ trombone, had a band in Napoleon-

ville; since tlien fwhen WT lived there], Ernest Himes [sp?]has corae from Donaldsonville and organized a bandy Himes is

still in Napoleonville. One member of a band sang. WT and

his mother were CatTiolic/ but T-iis grandmother was Baptist 7

1-ie remembers visiting her and hearing "jubilee" songs at her

church.

Wt^en WT was a small child^ 'he would listen to his Uncle

Adolph play the guitar and sing; a favorite song of Adolph's

was "Baby^ Just a Spoonful." WT bought his first set of drums

(a junior set) when he was about 13 years old^ his first

professional job, with the Nelson brothers, was at a park in

Napoleonville for a prize fight. Doctor Nelson did not play

regularly with his band, but would occasionally play his comet

during rehearsals, and would play "Taps" at various occasions.

3

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASI [of 2]-Summary-RetypedDecember 11, 1961

Doctor Nelson was a good doctor and a good musician, WR says

Bunk Johnson always called Louis Nelson "Dr. Nelson's son."

WT first heard "Stardust" complete with verse played by Bunk*

-s

Johnson; WT was playing drums with Ike Jenkins* band/ in Crowley,

La.; when JenXins needed a trumpet player sometimes, he would get

Bunk to come from his home. New Iberia, La. WT, who had been living

part-time with an aunt in N.O., moved permanently to N.O. in

1924, after his mother died. WT began playing drums with a band

at the French Market Cabaret (riglrfc across from the French

Market), on Decatur Street; leader was Georgia Boyd, clarinet

(WR says Punch [Miller] , with whom Boyd played quite a lot,

talks of Boyd) . Members of the band: Boyd^ clr Edward ["Big

Head"?] Johnson, alto [sax]; old man Wallace, banjo; "Coochie 11

Martin,, piano; WT, drums. No trumpet in the band. WT mentions

overhead bass drum pedals, Alfred Williams and [Louis] Cottrell

[Jr.]/ president of [musicians*] Local 496 (whose father was a

good, old-time drummer). WT talks about the traps he tiad in his

drum set. WT mentions Paul Barbarin, things he played orchestra

bells. Also some drununers played xylophones. WT played slide

whistle. WT took a couple of clarinet lessons from Steve Angrum,

but did not continue his study. He then bought an old trombone?

he was in Alexandria then; his first lesson was with Morris

French (now living in LaPlace, perhaps, says WR), then living

in Alexandria. French was a great trombonist[Cf. Preston ~\

.A* "*^'-F^i ", f ^.

^c.son7^-'-,Ka pretty .ood.eadcxAad a ^. loudtone.After 'Siearn'ing a few teongs, WT took his trombone on the

Job; while keeping the bass drum and sock cymbals going, he would

play a few sweet solos on trombone* He was in Tun:king(s band

4

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASI [of 2]-Summary-Re typedDecember 11, 1961

fhen. Returning to N.0», he took many trombone lessons from

Bill Matthews? WT credits Matthews witl-i teaching 'him trombone.1

WT says that N« 0- musicians at that time played smootTaer

and had better techniques than those playing in the country?

there were very few teachers or opportunities to hear music in

the country tt-ien.

WT played drums for about three weel^s with Buddie Petit at

The Entertainers (on Franklin [now Crozat] Street)7 The En-

tertainers was about ended [i.e., going out of business]. In

the band: Petit [comet] 7 George Wasliington^ trombone;

Walter Decou, piano; (be thinks) "Big Eye Louis" Nelson (Delisle)^

clarinet. WT sang "Tight Like That" with Petit*s bandj WR says

Louis Armstrong made a record of the song [but this Is not the^

r 4./}

"Tight Li;ke That that is sing* LA recorded "Tight Like This./\

RBA] . After Petit (which was after Boyd*s band on Decatur Street),

WT went witTi Robert Taylor, trumpet player and sliowraan from N*0. ;

Taylor had a show called "Taylor*s Knee HigTi [or Nelii or Ne"Hi or?[^

Review." The year was 1927. Thereview played afc the ColiseumI

Theater/ and at the Li&coln Theater, which was then on Louisiana

Avenue at Howard (now La Salle), where the Flint-Goodridge

Hospital is now. WT traveled with the review through the states

as far as Michigan^ and then to Seattle^ WasTiington. WT ^guit

in Dallas, Texas to join Billy Pearson*s "Miss Broadway" show.

WT mentions the "Dashing Dinah" show. In Taylor*s band^ which was

small, all were from N.O. Two brothers/ Willie "Sport" Young,

as^ and Austin "Boots" Young ( a geeat trombonist then ^ and

later a string bassist, recorded by WR), and James Grant

(piano and xylophone, who lived at Valence and Magnolia then)

5<

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASI [of 2]December 11, 1961

were in the band. The instrumentation: trombone^ alto^ trumpet,drums and piano. N.0. musicians in the "Miss Broadway" band:

/

WT, Lionel Ferbos (trumpet), and Antoine (tenor sax). The band

played mostly just the show music/ although Professor Randolph(violin, and leader?) wrote nice special arrangements to

feature the band occasionally. (WR mentions Irving ["Mouse"]Randolph, 2nd trumpet player and organizer of Louis Armstrong*s[big] band? WT says maybe the professor was a cousin of that

Randolph.) [WR is thinking of Zilmer Randolph. RBA.JThe first

tent show WT played with was Vernon Brothers, a carnival (WR

says Bunk Johnson mentioned that shew, and played with it) ?

WT was playing the minstrel show connected with that carnival.

The manager of the [minstrel] show was Jules "Green River"

Weaver, of Dallas; he played bass horn. WT traveled a lot with

Vernon Brothers; the headquarters of the show were in Macon^

Georgia. From Vernon Brothers, WT went to David A. Wise Carnival;from tliere he went to Rubin and Cherry Number 1. All were tent

E sic ?]shows. From Rubin and Cherry/ WR/went"to ;C.R. Legg^ns [sp?]and from there to Sparks' Circus. He was with various shows*

from one to three seasons.

End of Reel I

6WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASII [of 2]-Summary-RetypedDecember 11^ 1961 Also present: William Russell

They [i.e«, the tent shows] closed during the winter; WT

would sometimes play in bands in the towns where the show he was

in closed, and sometimes he would return to N,0, to play. WT

comments on N,0, music, saying that it always has been different

from that of any other part of the country. The N.O. bands had

a more ragtime beat; the bands from the North played more sweet

numbers, witTiout tlae drive of the N-0. men. WT says his style

of N.O. drumming always helped him do very well in playing

shows. N.O. men always had more swing tT-ian other musicians.

The only shows WT played trombone in were tTie Cavalcade^ out

of Mobile, Alabama, owned by Al Wagner, and Sammy Green's

Minstrel Show.

WT speaks of the modes of transportation for the various

shows: the shows which had trains or their own cars were known

as first-class shows? tTie ones which traveled by truck were

called "g-illy" shows (i.e., small-time.) WT says the Bill H.

Haynes [sp?] show was a gilly show.

Salaries on the sTiows were $25 and up? the union was not

strong then; union and non-union men played together.

WT talks of parading with the various shows? he mentions

the Rabbit Foot Minstrel Show^ which bad a 15-piece band.

Bands were cut down as times became tougher? the Rabbit Foot

was down to 9 pieces when WT was last with it^ and parades had

been discontinued. TT-iere was a Ma Rainey witlt the Rabbit Foot,

but she was from Memphis; the original and famous Ma Rainey

was from Columbus, Georgia. WT says another blues singer with

7

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASII [of 2]-Summary-Re typedDecember 11, 1961

the Rabbit Foot was Big Mary. Another great blues singer was

Sadie McKinney^ with WT on the Dashing Dinah show; she was/

[also? had been?] witTi the 101 Ranch Show, which was a combined

carnival-western show. Both white and colored performers worked

the show. Sadie McKinney, of St. Louis (WT thinks), made some

records in 1929 [c£. Robert M.W. Dixon & John Godrich/ Blues

and Gospel Records, 1902-1942], but WT doesn't know what company.

Slie had a big voice, like a man's.

The minstrel bands played breakfast dances many times,

after the sl-iow.

When he left tlie Rabbit Foot, WT returned to N. 0. for 3

years^ then he went on the road witl-i the Clyde Beatty Circus^

remaining with that show about 7 months; that was last year 7

WT enjoyed it? be had 1'iis own 'band. WR mentions [George] "SheW

[Colar] .

While in N.O-, and before going with Beatty, WT played

with various N»0. bands, including that of Paul Barbarin^ with

whom 1-ie recorded an album (Good Time Jazz label.) WT played

a couple of Papa Celestln,f

/

Perusing a scrapboo'k, WT names people in photographs:

Jeff Kelly [leader] 7 Braz ley [probably brother of Harrison Brazley.

RBA] (of N.O.)^ a trumpet player? Herbert Shotwell^ bass

(Beaumont, Texas)? Freddie Coleman, guitar (Natcheg, Mississippi).

Stiotwell was on the Rabbit Foot show with WT. Continuing: Howard

Lanier^ ts (Lelandy Miss.); Jesse Gardner, alto sax (CT-iarleston,

S.C.); Lizette Kennedy, piano (Alexandria, La.). Jeff Kelly,

now deceased/ played alto sax/ was from Monroe, La.7 he had been

the alto sax player ±n Ben Burton*s band, also from Monroe.

8

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASII [of 2]-Summary-RetypedDecember 11, 1961

Continuing: Archie "Tadpole" Martin, trumpet (NortTi Carolina);

Charlie HcCoy (Mobile)7 Albert Cooper, trombone (Magnolia,t

Miss.). The pictures [or one of them with Rabbit Foot show]were made in 1930.

WT shows some special arrangements he got from a one-time

leader of the Rabbit Foot band/ Hosey [sp?] Sapp.

A photograph of Tony Almerico. One of WT in 1945^ when he

was with Jay McShannIs band, in Kansas City [Missouri] (WR says

he lieard McShannIs band about 1938). Photo of W.C, Handy

and liis band^ when Handy was young. Photo of Jo'hn Casimir's

[Young Tuxedo] brass band. [These photos belong to WT.RBA/ee,Jan. 24, 1967].

Talk of Rabbit Foot Minstrels: their headquarters/ Memphis;band rehearsed there 3 weeks every year ^ ^hen went on the road;

show would close in Memphis. WT would then play with band of

Memphis drummer Red Davis? they worked in West Memphis/ Ark.

WT would stay there 2 or 3 months^ tlaen return to N,0. WT

worked with the Rabbit Foot 14 years, altogether.

Photo of Walter Barnes's band, most of whom perished in

fire in Natche^. [Mississippi] about 1940. (WR says the wife of

Babe Phillips was going to that dance, but didn't? her sister

was there; WR believes she got out of it.)

Photo of young Bessie Smith, made in 1919? given to WT byold lady with whom he roomed; Bessie roomed with same woman at

one time; Bessie quite slender in pt-ioto. Photo of D-J^]^ Ellington.[Business] card of [Henry] Alien [Sr.], father of [Henry "Red

Alien [Or.]. Photo of George Williams's Brass Band playing forthe Odd Fellows, with WT in it.

9

WOMHIA "SHOWBOY" ^THOMASXI [of 2] -Summary-RetypedDecember 11, 1961

During World War II, WT played with Jay McShann's band at

Army bases for 3 months.

The Rabbit Foot show was strictly a southern show. WT

went with one show [Taylor's Knee High-see Reel I] as far as

Michigan. WT went to New York with the Dashing Dinah show and with

fhe Miss Brfoadway show; both were from Cfaicago. They were

vaudeville showsr playing on T.O*B.A. [Theater Own^sl Booking

Association] circuits- Almost every show WT played witln around

the same time was on the same circuit. They didn't usually

travel as far as Denver/ usually ending around Omaha^ Nebraska.

Carnivals playing "still dates" (i.e.^ not playing at af£a±fi)

remained in a town for 6 days? playing with a fair, they would

remain from 2 to 3 weeks. WR says Punch [Miller] played with

carnivals some. WT never met Punch on the roadr but tias

played some j obs with him in N, 0.

Talk of show parades; uniforms^ grand marshall, s'how

wagons filled with girls and comedians. WT^ a snare drummer in

the parades then, could do tricks with "his sticks? he couldn't

do as much,, however, as a drummer from Jackson, Miss., Joe

White; White played with the Rabbit Foot before WT. White still

lives in Jackson, plays drums, has his own band, is an old man.

[See Joachim Berendt & William Claxton, Jazz Li^e [sp?]. RBA].

White was considered one of the greatest street snare drummers.

Talk of length, in time, of parades, including a little concert

and sales pitch by spieler.

Traveling with the shows was good and bad? WT loved it.

10

WORTHIA "SHOWBOY" THOMASII [of 2] - Summary- KetypedDecember 11, 1961

WR says Punch considered it hard, but he "had a bad stomach.

WT says if one stays with shows a number of years, his stomac'h.F

will get bad because of his eating and sleeping- habits.

The Rabbit Foot band played all fast music on the street;

the music didnlt swing.

End of Reel II