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OrI-301Box t+ 15

Brigham Young UniversitY - Hawaii

Oral History Program

Yuki IreioH-301

1988

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BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY.HAWAIIORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Behavioral and Social Sciences DivisionLaien Hawaii 96762

YUKI IREI

INTERVIEW NO: oH-301

DATE OF INTERVIEW: February 15, 1988

INTERVIEWER: Chandran Bhaskaran

SU BJECT: Kahuku Plantationo

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PUBLISHING RELEASE FORMKAHUKU PAU HANA PROJECT

4aac/37 t7t /77o

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Signature of Narrator

( P.C. Box 205 Kahuku Hr 96731

Date

Address of Narrator

301 Feb. .l5, l9BB

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SIDE A

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1213141516

SIDE B16

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Kenneth W. Baldridge, DirectorOral History Program, BYU-Hawaii

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Birth and early childhood--games, racial make-up, education, oldKahuku buildings.Changes in customs--especially intermarriageReligion in 1930's, changes in the school system, favorite teachers.Effects of the depression.Effects of Pearl Harbor, WWll, crime in Kahuku.Employment at the mill, effects of the union.Ethnic organization of the work force, treatment of workers.Currency on the plantation, Kahuku Hospital, children and plantationlabor.Social, economic and political changes as a result of WWll.Strikes of 1920.Filipino strike ol 1924, grievances.Recreational facilities, golf course.Closing of the plantation, effects on Kahuku.Leadership in Kahuku community.END OF SIDE A

Leadership in Kahuku plantation and community (cont'd).

Plantation police force, plantation managers, Kahuku communityassociations, YMBA.Politics in Kahuku before and after 1946, security of village"fenceto keep the Democrats out.Contributions ol each ethnic group to Kahuku--food, clothing,entertainment.Big Five, reflections on 1920 strike.END OF INTERVIEW.

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YUKI IREI

lnterviewer: Chandran Bhaskaran Time: 60 mins.

Mr. Yuki lrei is a gentleman of Japanese extraction born on August 8, 1916, on theWaianae plantation. His family moved to Kahuku from Waianae when he was two years old andthere he began a life interspersed with experiences from schooling, the dominant role of the BigFive, the labor strikes, the second world war and beyond.

Mr. lrei also talked about politics in Kahuku, different ethnic groups, recreationalactivities on the plantation, and the effects that the closing of the plantation had on the town.

This interview was conducted by Chandran Bhaskaran as part of an assignment in an

American History class at BYU-Hawaii. Fellow student Sydra Cuyan transcribed the tape,Chandran audited it, and oral history secretaries Debbie Barker, Michelle Meyer and Anne Chasecompleted the editing, typing and assembly.

For most of the students this was their first interview and while they were surprised athow much work was involved, they were pleased with the results of learning not only aboutKahuku but the development of a skill at the same time.

Laie, HawaiiMay 4, 1989

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Okay, Mr. Yuki lrei, can you please tell me you birth date, please?When were you born?

I was born in Waianae plantation, on August 8, 1916.

Can Vou tell me about your early childhood and how you spent thetime,-like some of the games that you had in those days?

Oh, games? We used to play during--see, lgraduate [in] 1932 fromgraminar school. They used io call ft grammar school. So we usedt-o play games, mixed boys, you know--Japanese, Portuguese,Filibinbs: Those were tlie n-ationalities numerous in Kahuku school.

[Were there] Japanese in there?

Japanese, Filipinos and the Portuguese. They were the morenuhrerous people in Kahuku at that period. That was during theVears that'we'used to play together and against each other and thelame was during, the years say, 1928-1932; that's when I

graduate.

What was the most popular game at that time?

Football or softball; they were two games we could easily play; youdon't have to have gloves; some had gloves.

Did you go to grade school or high school?

Only until grammar school.

When did you come to Kahuku?

Kahuku. I must have been about two years old. I was born inWaianae and my parents came to Kahuku .

Can you tell me how the town was when you moved in?

The time I remember when I was three or four years old and I

started to know mV Surroundings. You know wh-en you are a smallchild you wouldn'i know--l was just three or four.

I mean, can you tell me about how the building was?

The buildinq, w€ have several old buildings still standing. Thoseqable type---low ceiling, two bedroom--that was our home--oneXitchen.'' ln the early years we didn't have kerosene stove.

Tell me [some] important buildings that are still surviving.

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Well, one of those buildings--well, they fixed some part of therooms, but Mr. and Mrs. Takeo and Elsie Sato [see OH-309] lives inone of those houses, Of course, they had it fixed. That is one ofthe examples.

And [it] still stands?

They made corrections here and there.

Okay. Any differences of the customs of the people at that timeand now?

It changed gradually, especially intermarri.age. At the beginning,think mbstly-you arb afraid of other people.

We are talking about which year now?

That was even up to 1932. TheJapanesel immigrants that cameintermarriage.

lssei [first gto Hawaii, t

Now it has changed.

Mavbe. Thev don't like to, but theythey go alon! with the children. Th

eneration Americanhey were against

cannot do much about it. Soose years they figure . .

At that time in the 1930's in Kahuku, who were the predominantpeople--Japanese, Filipinos or what?

I say Japanese.

The majority were Japanese?

Yes.

Right now?

Right now Iit is] Filipino's.

Filipino's are dominant, so there has been a change.

Yes.

Let's talk of the kind of religions they had in Kahuku at that time,the 1930's.

We had Buddhists, we had Methodists, Catholic--those three.

I see. Most of the Japanese were Buddhists, I believe?

Yes.

And who were the Catholics?

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The Catholics were mostly [what] we called haoles [caucasians],yeah? And besides the Portuguese, [there were] Spanish. Theyfuere mostly Catholics.

The management were mostly haoles?

No, mostly I think Portuguese and Spanish. But we didn't have toomany haoles.

And the Methodists?

We had some Filipinos that were Catholics, too. ln the Methodistwe had Koreans And some Filipinos. lt was small--Methodist.

Let's talk about the school system today and before, and what's thedifference?

Before is more controlled by authorities. ln other words, thestudents had not much to say. They just listened to the old customThe elderly had the power to tell them, you know, what to do andsteer them in the straight Path.

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u, sir, that now it has changed? ls that what you're

Yes. Students now have some control of the education.

Now, can you tell me the name of your favorite teacher?

Mv favorite teacher was Mr. Clinton Kanahele. He passed away. Hehdd a son. They still live . . .

What did he teach you?

The most thing he taught us was math.

And he was a good teacher?

Yes, very good teacher and previous to that we didn't learn muchabout matti. Another teachei who taught us was anotherHawaiian--James Kekauoha. Their two names are familiar in

Mr. Kanahele--is he passed awaY?

He passed away. He was our principal at Kahuku School and Mr.Janies Kekauoh-a passed away also.

Do you know when theY Passed awaY?

That I don't know. I forgot. They're well known in Laie.

There was a depression and how did it . . .

The depression years were about 1930, or 1931 .

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Okay now, how did Kahuku change? Did you see any change inKahirku during the depression?

Yes. When there was a depression we were paid, in the beginning,one dollar a day. Then, as it became bad, or worse., they took ourtwo cents from- one dollar so we took in ninety-eight cents a day.

[Someone is calling in the background]

So, if vou're paid a dollar a day it's normal and during thedepres-sion it'became ninety-eight cents a day?

Those two [pennies] were depression years.

[Knocking in background. Tape recorder turned off.]

The depression, you were saying, did affect your pay?

Yes, I guess a little bit.

Was there a shortage of anything, any important things that youcould not get?

There were no shortaqe. One part I remember well was when therewas depression in Hoiolulu a lot of these people didn't have jobs.So thode high school graduates from Honolulu, during the .summer,the plantatio"n called them to work in the plantation lonl the samejob. ' So that's the reason why they build free bachelor's quarters.

That's why they set up the bachelors' quarters?

Free.

So thev set up the bachelors' quarters free of charge toaccommodate'these people from Honolulu during .the depression,and after the depression was over they went back?

That's when the second world war was.

Yes, we'll come to the second world war. Now, tell. me about thesec6nd world war and how it affected the town and where were youon December 7, 1941 when the planes came in?

There's a restaurant you passed by when you came in.

Logans? [Logans Restaurant]

Yes. We ran the place from 1935, So we were here December 7,IaiL Z:OO or 8:00 [in the morning]--before the radio announced thatPearl Harbor was attacked.

You did not know at all?

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No, we didn't know. No one knew the war was on until.they heardthai on the radio. Some of the older ones could not believe Japanwould do such [a] thing like that. They didn't believe.

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Did you ever see the planes coming?

No, I never did. But my neighbor was shot when he wasWahiawa area cominq back from town, I think. I think hebullet hole in his carl That's what I understand.

traveling inhad one

Durino this hard time in the second world war, how did it affectthe Jdpanese communitY in Kahuku?

Kahuku wasn't bad. lt treated our Japanese just ordinary. We didn'tsee anv persecution or nothing of that sort. We all were treatedas--of colrse probably they know us too long.

So like the Filipino's and all the others [there was] no problem?

No trouble there; no trouble or problem.

Did vou know of all the militarv activities that was going on likeKahriku airbase and what was gbing on there and everything?

During the war?

Yes.

You see. thev were afraid of Japanese invasion, so what they didwas out'barb'ed wire around the'shores. And at the time we hadthis martial law so civilian law was out. And then they put somerestriction where Japanese, even island-born Japanese, AmericanJapanese could not !o fishing at the beach.

It's only Japanese?

Yes. The reason for that, I think [was that] a lot of the Gl's whowere quardinq the shores, like artillery pebple, they didn't knowioo miCfr of tfre Japanese.. They cannoi tell the difference mostlyibetween foreion an'd American J-apanesel. They [the islandiloinesel miqlt oet shot at, vou know?

-So I ihink that was thepu'ipose tlorl l<eeFing the Jap-anese Americans or the Asians awayfrom the shore.

Okay, now let's talk about things like crime and things like that'

Oh, crime was verY low.

Very low as comPared to todaY?

Rarelv--thev would know who was the one [that]. broke into someb"opi'"'.- h;m;s anO Oo some petty thievery,

-smail one' They wouldknow because it was. . . .

Did you work in Kahuku plantation or mill?

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Oh yes. When I graduated--at that time most of us young kids onlythouqht--was depression years, see--that we hope the plantationwould give us job, any kind of a job, as long as de are erhployed bythem.

What did you do?

I was hired as a field worker.

Field worker? ln the cane fields?

Yes. We cut grass and made lines, you know.

So that was your job. And during the depression were there anychanges?

That was the depression vears. lt staved steady for awhile likethat up to beforej the war- started--Vou know, in hbout 1938. That'snot tob far from [the] depression, you know when the war started.Hitler caused a lot of trouble. So, American Rews sees thatJapanese was going toward their side [Germany's]. Probably theyfiqiJred thev have to prepare for anything to happen to Hawaii. SowTrat thev 6id was pui iri a cannon bn the hills,'bunkers. TodayVou'll see those pill box on the hills. They were stocking that andfhev started hirino people to carrv kerosene up the hills to startthe"oenerators anl to diq a hole ih those mouniains. lapplied forthos6 job, but they lookdd. at me.--l .looked. Japanese, ald .lh"y didn'thire Jdpanese. But they already had one Japanese boy in thereworking. That's the rehson why I wanted to--but he looked like aChinese guy.

So they were a little suspicious of Japanese?

Oh yes, in a small waY.

Now, in Kahuku mill, did the unions help out with the wages?

That was 1946.

ln 1946 the unions did?

Long after the war.

So the unions were useful in raising the wages of the employees?

Yes. I think the first was they had a strike in 1946'

And how did you participate in the strike? Did you participate in"the strike?

Oh see, we were lost, especially in our position. We leased the--we rent'ed the restaurant

'from the plantation and then we get ournusiness from the people in the village. They were the rank andtite who organized'it, io we were in-between [the unions and the

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plantation. We were lost; we didn't know what to do. So wethought we'd try to ride this. So a good friend of mine--he wasthe t'op man in'oroanizinq the labor--c?me to see me said hebeloncis to the Lioi's Clu6. So thev came and asked for somedonatr'on for a certain proiect. At- that time I declined because I

was afraid of [the labo'r oiganization] getting too close to me. Heis a good friend of mine.

So you refused his offer?

The certain type of donation.

For the union?

For a certain project, for the Lion's Club. He was an organizer, oneof the top men in organizing the labor union in 1946.

What's the connection between the Lion's Club and the union?

He was something of [an] organizer sort. He belonged to this Lion'sClub. You know,-most of these community leaders, they belonged tovarious clubs. They're active.

Let's go to the living system they had. Let's talk about the wagesfor arrilhile. Now, w-as'it based on commission?

Flat pay. You get so much, just like I was paid. ln the beginning--

So you work less, you still get the same amount?

Yes, sometimes out in the field there was contract, you made somanv lines--. You know that canes are planted in rows, so you cutgras3 so many lines. They give [pay] per line.

Per line? So they have piece rate, in other words?

Some cases--and even cutting the cane, so many pile and youknow--.

So some of them were hired with a flat rate and others had a piecerate ?

That's right.

Okay, and they had--if they produced more lines, they get paidmore?

Flat pays, hourly rate.

Were the people employed there on a contract basis where they hadto work fo'r so many'ye'ars? You cannot quit the job for so manyyears?

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Not for us. We couldunderstand, they havethe passage charge.

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quit any time we like. But the immigrants, I

tb worli according to the treaties to-pay 6ack

So they were not free to leave the job whenever they feel like?

But mostlv the plantation want to own them. They didn't want tolose them. But they still move [to] a better job, better pay.

Oh, they can move out?

Yes, they can, but [the plantation] discouraged it.

They had terms and conditions but they could leave if they wantedto?

That's right.

That's only for the immlgrants, right?

The workers, they can leave any time.

How were the workers organized? We.re they all clumped alltogether, or was it separate race--you know, one race in oneorganizalion?

They were in a racial way _because at that time I think the p.urposefor ihis--not knowing the- [other] racial lines, not knowing theirlanquaqe, their custdms, it

-was basy for them to go on racial line.[be6aude] they [those within the same rac.g]. knew each otherbetter. So thiey can organize stronger, solid.

l've got this question now. There's so ma.ny races. Do you feel apartiEular rac'e was treated better than the other races by theinanagement or something like that?

Yes, they were treated in such a way.

D if f e re ntly?

Yes.

Can you explain?

That was for their own end. You see, as manager, management ,side,I think ihev were trvinq this way many years' You remember whenthev start btf to vaiioris countri-es, thev- colonized? They have aivsiem. the manaqement. So probablV what they did was they musth'ave chtted [the] Chinese and to mana_ge th.em, they called thePortuquese to manage and [to make itf easier for them. So most ofthe P"ortuouese were- used dn the management side to controlitre--to tafte care of the laborers. The way I understand, firstiwerel Chinese, Japanese, and mavbe Puertb Rican and then Filipinobame" in [and] 6ome Spanish. But fhe Portuguesg qnd Spanish .wasitre peopie who came earlier. Most of the skilled crafismen [were]

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all supervisors.

Now most of the Japanese in Kahuku worked in the mill, what jobwere they doing?

A lot of them were doing engineering jobs. What is engineering?It's high up. [t's] processing the sugar, the sugar cane. They wereworking in the boiler room, cane-dryer, some working in thelaborat-ory, help the chemist--used to be a haole guy.

Most of the Filipinos--where were they working?

As a laborer. But they came late, you see. This is something like, I

won't say seniority, but the one who was here late no more can geta iob. So gradu-ally they still hiring, but they sort of shift thenaiionalities." tTheV thought they Wouldl try-the Filipino this time,Vou know? So th€i Filipino would start from the bottom, but thereare some--they'd find the smartest Filipino from that group whichthev did with Japanese also; find the smartest one who seems to bea leader to be in the management side, to control them. They didthat in the Japanese, too.

And most of the Chinese, where did they work?

They probably did the same thing. I never knew too much aboutthat.

Well, like the Filipinos?

Yes, the Japanese and the Filipinos.

How about the Puerto Ricans?

Thev were here with the Spanish. They were mostly technicians.Thelr operate trains. You know those flumes they make on theh ills ?

Yes.

Thev out stones so that the water don't erode the sides of theditc6eb. Thev used to make ditches--chop the stone up for theditches. Th-ey were the craftsmen--Portuguese, Spanish.

Did the union have control over the administration?

Yes and no. As far as the management side, they had no co.ntrol.But they were trying to ask the management to dee the books' Butfhe maiaqement at-the beginning saiil no, I think. But gradually, I

think, today they let them see the books.

So actually they_ did not have much control over the administrationwhen it slarted?

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Did the workers want the union to have more control over thead m in istration?

Yes, a little more probably, but as far as control, they didn't getthat far; they couldn't go that far,

Was there any independent currency within the plantation?

I don't think so. As far as I know there were all Americancurrency.

Did they have a special scriPt?

Not in this plantation. We did not have any script, but they hadcharge account.

So thev did not have any in this plantation? They used just theregulaf American dollar?

I heard some plantations had, but not Kahuku. I don't think so; notthat I know of.

How about Kahuku HosPital?

It was first run by Kahuku Plantation Company as a plantationhospital because ihey needed a doctor for the employees, a generalpractitione r.

Could others go in there?

I used to see others.

So others could go in there--non-worker?

That's right. The plantation .had a. gener.al. practitioner,. so [in] somesoecial dases--cerfain occasions--the individual have to go out toFlonolulu to see other doctors where the plantation doctois couldnot take care.

Tell me about the role of children in the plantation work.

Oh, the children, they were enrolled in school, grammar school'

Did they work in the Plantation?

tDurinol summer vacation. Not the too young ones. I think [they]ffiu;l E'ave been ten--ten years old you- work summer vacation.

What was the most popular job for the children?

For the children, out in the field. Maybe few have siobs--those who' have connections in-other areas [obr ffound an] easier job [could do that]. [But] veryin the field.

omerl like the job,few--mostly out

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During the second world war in the plantation, was there anychange?

Yes, big changes.

It's not the social changes, now.

The social changes I saw was this: Before the war, people in theolantation mostlV associated amonq themselves. After the secondworld war, they start going out Witn other nationalities especiallythey start talkirig with them. They didn't hold back, [they] talk tothein, walk with them. I mean the younger generation.

Mv question was during the Japanese war [World War ll] in Kahukumltt in 1941-1945, what were the changes in the mill? Any socialchanges in the mill or plantation?

No, not that I can see. No, there were no changes in the mill.

Any economic changes?

No. The changes came during 1946 from the strike. Before that itwas just graduil changes wfri-ch was hardly noticeable.

Were there any political changes form 1941-1945 in the mill andplantation?

Verv slowlv. When I start thinkinq back, the difference came fromwacies. Durinq the war, the outside industry, they used to have agorlernment hiiing department--what they used to call the U.S.E.D.f tfrint< that was-corimunication engine'ering or something like that.Thev hired people--carpentrv and Various -iobs--to do constructionfor ihe airfield building'houses for the Gl's- barracks; [they hired]all those things-- bulldbzer operators, Th.ey had very gogd.pay [in]comparison with the plantation. During the war, some of thesebovd who were good'in carpentry want-ed to get out, but themdnagement--th6y call it "freez6"--they lreeie you to your job.

Oh, so during the war you couldn't quit?

That's riqht, certain people. They wanted to get out badly--thosecarpenteis and those skilled workers like maybe the craneopdrators, bulldozer--

Because the mill needed them.

Yes, I think.

They were afraid they would [go work for] the U.S.E'D.

Plantation and the military, they work together. But those whoweie not afraid went off ,'they bouldn't do anything; but most ofthem staved back. The pay was so different that the changes. camehere, as'l said, from maybe 1945--that's when it was right for theunion to get in to organize in 1946.

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Okay, in 1920--we are going back now. ln 1920, the Japanese wenton dtrike in Kahuku.

I heard about that.

Can you sort of tell me more about it?

Mv father told me that he was not one of the strikers. He stayed inth"e plantation. There were other strikers that struck and theywerej sleeping around the beach. What I understand, there werenonstrikerb Who gave donations throughout the month. Probably itwasn't enough, l-think. And those strikers were persecuted bypolicemen. In'those days, it was not like today. ' The immigrdntshad no power whatsoever.

ln those days the immigrants did not have any power?

They were just under contract--had nothing to say. We had noprot-ection as far as the law.

So the strikers were persecuted by the police?

Yes, those who struck. They were turned out from their village.Aft;]r utL-it

"'village was owfied by the plantation. So they riere

thrown dut and th6y were living on'the bbach area. Even then theywere kind of harasbed , I wouJd understand, by the sheriff. Becausethose areas were controlled by the governor ahd the mayor and thesheriff.

So the important person were the governor, rnayor and the sheriff?These are the important people actually?

They were importanti. th.ey were controlled by the Big Five. .,Th"qovernor was controlled by the president, the president of thetlnited states.

So the 1920 strike, was it successful or unsuccessful?

I don't think it was successful. That was a failure from what I

understand.

But your father was not a Part of it.

No.

ln 1924, it seems the Filipinos went on strike. Can you tell meabout it?

Thev failed also. There was one leader t remember they talkedabout--Manlapit. He was one of the leaders'

Mr. Manlapit was sort of a union leader?

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So there was more than one union and the Filipinos had a union?

That's right. They had several, I understand, several small.

How about the Portuguese; did they have a union?

No, they were mostly on the management side.

So l'thel 1924 strike was also a failure. Did the failure of thesetwo'strikes bring any changes?

Sliohtlv. verv sliqhtlv. hardlv noticeable. The way I saw it--l wasa liid, "6o--th'ere hight have

-[been] small changes,

-but hardly

noticeable.

lf you had any grievances, how would you--

That's where the qrievance committee comes in. That's the reasonwhv. as I told Vo[ previous to this, each nationality choose theirlea'ders. So th-e community--the Japanese will go see theirleaders, talk to them and tliis and that; he goes to the manager andtell them this and that, and they will see What they can do about it.

So they have a committee of people who . . .

lThere arel certain ones the management relies on. They don't callthem committee, but that's mostly on the management side.

Was it effective?

Yes. in a wav. ln a small wav, ves. Because somebody favorable tothe'emplove"e--sometimes the ihildren get in trouble with the law.So, in ffrose cases, when Japanese kids have troubles--when theyse6 the community leader, [fhe] community leader will see themanager and he'll' fix the troubles, small troubles.

So actually the management were very important in thiscommunity?

Yes.

lf you have problemthe management ca

he police, you see your management andg

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s with tn fix it.

Yes. vou can fix it. I've seen that. Even big ones, they'll make itright.' I've seen that.

Within the working environment, if you had a problem was there away you get the Problem settled?

A oood wav to do that is to see the--a lot of times you have. to--sirall, yod see, you don't want to trouble the management in any

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small, pettv quarrel. So you have to fix that yourself with you andthe olh'er 5juy. Sometimes you have a fight, serious trouble,- youknow.

It happens?

Yes, it happens. I didn't see the racial one--[it usually, involved an]individual one guy got angry with another person, so they settle itwith fists, you know.

What recreational facilities did the plantation provide?

Oh, thev put a lot of recreation. lt was one of the best part of theplahtation. they sponsor all the programs.

For example?

ln those Vears, the people didn't have much money so the plantationsponsor baseball, basketball, volleyball--no, not basketball--inthose davs basketball wasn't too popular. But baseball was,vollevbalf was, a little bit of soccer; they had football, andboxirio--esoeciallv vollevball for the Filipinos. The Japanese hadskin 5all. ' They'used'to play inter-isldnd or inter-plahtationmatches. oo to-the outer islands with their own companvplantatiohi--with their own company plantation. Say, AmericanFactors--their own plantation. Kahuku was A and B--Alexander andBaldwin--so they used to play games against another Alexander andBaldwin plantations in Kauai

-or- Maui.

The golf course--what was the purpose of the golf course?

That was for the supervisor. Our manager at that time, Ml. T.G.S.Walker [1928-1940] liked golfing. I'm hot, sure, but that's whenthey stalted building up the golf course--it was a cow pasture.

Could the workers go there and use the golf course?

Oh yes, but the first priority was the management.

So I guess most of the people playing the golf were Portuguese?

Haoles, the management side. When We gqy haole, there weren'trna.* t-et's see, maybe about seven or eight.

Seven in the whole communitY?

And then the supervisors--it's an unwritten code [with us and]manaqement--yori stay out of his way publicly, and they're notf riendTy publicly; it's unwritten.

Finally the plantation closed and how did it affect you personally?

When the plantation closed, the way I look, I don't know about theothers, I tlrinf for Kahuku it was for the better. I think even forthe plantation it was for the better. Even for Alexander and

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Baldwin, because Kahuku was a marginal plantation. lt was small,and the' fields were all narrow, lthe mill] was far away from theplantation. You had to haul the Cane quite a distance. As timeboes, Vou have to produce so much sular to make profit; and if youioo sniall, you canriot make the profit. Yoq, hSye to make so manytonnage of sugar cane per year to be profitable. So plantation atKahuk"u had to-fold. Thdn th-ey closed ui:.

After that, well, the workers--probably the outside areas startedhavino iob opehinq--[for instanbe] at Kuilima, that's Turtle Baynow--Ihe employeet

-start changing their w.ays. The wives started

workinq also. A tot of [those former] employees worked [at] TurtleBav, ttie Hawaiian Electiic, Hawaiian Telephone. They worked atWdihtua Suqar Plantation. They worked fbr the state, the city. Soit was for ihe better for the plantation, especially for the peoplein the plantation.

So vou feel that the closing of the Kahuku mill was actually goodbecause people started spreading out?

That's right. They had to start.getting out from the.paternalsvstem. "qo on their own, buy their own lot, use their own initiativetd qet 'aliead instead of being protected by the plantation--hadhoute provided by the [plantation].

Did it have a positive effect on the town?

Yes.

Did you see any change in Kahuku town after the mill closed down?

What I saw in the short period was deterioration. Homes started torun down. There was no repairing; that's the part I saw, wasdeterioration. As far as the family life, all the younger peoplesmrleO moving out. So yorl can.s6e, Kahuku Yill.age.started.running[down]--it got- into a po-sition where it started to deteriorateslowly

Were some people financially stranded?

No. I think the wav I saw it, most became richer. The reason fortf',it is tttritl durini the plantatign period, most of wives did notf'ave to'woit<--a fe"w had'[to]. But'then, after.the plantati.onclosed--it's not because the plantation closed--the outside area;6t6a traving jobs, So the wives s.tarted. going.to work. 9g II_"ystart havinq iwb incomes in the family instead of one. Some hadtwo inComds [before] because s_ome. wives wash clothes,, youknow--work some srirall jobs. But it's not the reason that theoianiation closed: not because the plantation closed, but becauseih;"i"ji;iOJ iieis start having jobs;' conditions start changing. Sothat's what caused Kahuku to get a little better.

Let's talk about the Kahuku leadership now. Who were the leadersin the communitY?

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We had the haole supervisors, the leaders, the management. Do youwant to know the names?

lf it is possible; if you can remember their names; some of theprominent ones.

Yl As far as I can remember,one before him Mr. MMr. Uames N.l Orrick.Burns came Mr. JamesMr. [Clarence] Christo

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we had Mr. Walker for a manaoer. We hadt, [before] Walker--then after hTm becameer that became Mr. C.E.S. Burns; after Mr.Morgan Jr., and Mr. [Fred E.] Trotter, then

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Then among the Portuguese we had some good people, smart people.One was Camacho. He used to be my luna [foreman]. They had FrankMiranda, he used to be a luna ; and Johrr Enos. Andther Pbrtuguesefellow [was] Medeiros. They had some locomotive engineer [for the]train Manuel Silva Barros. He was the mechanic, fixer, over all thesteam-engines, trains, you know. And Jules Caldeira. We had asmart Poituou6se ouv hamed Louie Pereira. That was thePortuguese iide. Thb other side were Japanese. I remember we had[Mr.] [4oriyama, Mr. Hirotsu.

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H irots u ?

Yes. One of the boys work at the BYU [Hawaii]--l think [it is] hisson. Hirotsu and Mr. Hiroshi [Togo, see OH-305] and Yonemori [seeOH-441. You probably talk to him--Yonemori. - Any..others--that'swhat l-can recall. Among the Filipino we had Acantilado and aCandido del Rosario, Alfiche. And we had this Moran. We hadAnguay, Vitaliano Anguay. And the other--l must have forgottenthe" ot66rs. The Chifrese were office staff--like George Wo-ng.

So some of them were plantation managers and some of them werenot plantation managers?

What's that?

Some of the leaders in the community were plantation managers,and some of them were not plantation managers, right?

Yes. They were supervisor; some were community leaders from thevillage.

We had one incident I cannot forget. When I was a small boy, whenI used to deliver milk--that was 1920, 1932, 1933; Christmastime, this was; Mr. Christo_pherson, _C.D. Christopherson--there isanother Christopherson. lOlarence Christopherson was managerfrom 1967-19721 On Chri-stmas they used to leave big bags ofChristmas candi-es, apples and oranges. I can't forget that. Theywere sweets. One was the bookkeeper in the plantation, the otherwas a mill engineer, and this Christbpherson used to play football

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for Punahou [High School]. He became very well known. He passedaway already [Feb. 21, 1979].

Another thino. vou heard about the plantation policemen? Thevwere hired 6V ifre plantation to conirol the plantation and loo(after the trodblemakers--that's another thing. When they hadtrouble, they handled them.

These policemen, do they belong to the Honolulu police?

No.

P rivate?

Thev were special policemen. One was Burroughs, an Englishman,one"Rabideair [was'a] Frenchman, and Candido-del Rosario [was]Filipino: and then Clianq--he was a policeman. Before that, theyhad onb Hawaiian policdman, but I c'annot recall him. Way befoiethat was James Stewart, a long time ago; he must have been anEnglishman; name sounds English--Stewart.

Can you tell the names of those managers you worked under?

Yes. When I used to work lat the] plantation, Thomas G.S. Walkerwas the manager. When I wbs attending. Kahuku Grammar School, heoave some monev for the FFA--that's lhe Future Farmers ofAmerica. [He] gave us tools. And then, I understand, he built theKahuku gym; T:G. S. Walker Gym there at Kahuku High School. Hedonated-the money. That's the manager I remember.

There was only one manager you worked under?

Yes. After that I quit, You know.

Oh, I see. Was there a community association in Kahuku?

Yes. one. I don't know who was the organizer--who originated thatone. Some of the prominent people--l knbw one was Louie Pereira,a Portuguese.

Was this association organized by the workers, -or by a particularrace? One race had one community association?

It beoan as a community organization. lt first began aroundttris--"atl I know [is that'it w-as] Louie Pereira, a -Portuguese fellow.

Did they have a Japanese association [or] a Filipino association?

with the church--Buddhist Church. Theyo Mens' Buddhist Association. Thev had aXu, Waialua plantation, Waipahu---[played]

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YI Yes, that's affiliatedcalled it YMBA--Younbaseball team--Kahumostly baseball.

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Yes, the Buddhist church played with other associations.

The Filipinos, did they have something similar to this?

Yes, they had mostly volleyball and baseball. They played withother plantations also.

So the Filipinos had their own community association?

Yes, they had a small one.

What's the name of that Place?

They called it Filipino Association because they were together.

The town--what was thetown? How was the Kahuchanged politically?

oolitical attitude or tendencv of theku town in the 1930's and 1940's? Has it

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They had no choice before 1946.

All those changes came out after the war?

Evervbodv was Republican. The reason for that, as I told you, themavor rair the citV qovernment; the governor ran the territorial.And those people wdre controlled by t-he Big Five, [and] the Big Fivewere Republican.

So before that you didn't have a. . . ?

I mvself was called into the office, and they said, "We'd like to seevou." Thev called me Yuki. [They said], "We want you to sign somebaoers." l- sav. "Okav." And thev had this Japanese communityledOer land he'said],-"Yqki,ygy hqYe to sign this pape.r here.".. So I

was going to read it. He shid, "Oh no, ju-st sign it; it's okay."

They don't let you read it?

No. Even if I didn't sign it, [it] wasn't going to matter anyway. Atthat time, it was alright. I thought, uWell, you're now aReoublicdn." fiauqhtei] That's how I became a Republican up untiltodav. Since'the- plantation is Republican, all the people who canvote'ioined the Rejpublican. Because at that time, prior to thestrikq that the labor organized, the plantation was very organizedooliticallv. Thev were d'll Republicans. So whatever they do inHonolulJ. passiirq laws and all that, was favorable to theolantation.'which-was qood for the plantation employee. lt wasbood for the plantation-employee mcist of the time. And then theydiscouraqed the Democrat'politician to run for mayor and all that'So the 6lantation--lthe politician wanted] to come in the villageand havb a political rallV. So they tell him, "Stay on the highway,can't come in." They uded to have to fence around the villagebef ore.

They did?

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Yes. Any time you come in the village, you have to have a pass fromthe off ice.

Which office now, plantation office?

That's right; I forgot that's there. lt was tightly controlled wdy,way back. Gradually . . .

Until which year did they have this fence?

Up to 1932 or 1933. As you come f rom the restaurant, Logan'sRbstaurant, on the right side--the big banyan tree?

Yes.

Did you go to the barber shop?

No, I didn't go.

Anywav, [bv the] banyan tree, we used to have a gate over--a biggaie. 'lt'd locked cerfain time'of the evening and they openedcertain time in the morning. You couldn't go in unless you have akev. Only those who have a key--we had a key. We used to delivermilk so we had a key to get in,

"evening they c'lose. The salesmen[who] came in had to have a pass.

So they kept the Democrats out that way?

Yes, but in the beginning they were enforcing those rules andkeeping Democratd out-:enforcing the policy. But gradually theystaried- getting lax so they started coming in, you know, gradually.

lf I were to ask you what was the most painful experience Kahukuhad.. . ?

fionq pause] Gee, I cannot remember. I can't remember anyilain"frjl--wrrdt do you mean by painful?

I mean something that you feel should never.have happened inKahuku.

[another long pause] ln Kahuku, no, I don't think there was reallyany bad things.

I understand that so many communities came in here and eachcommunitv brouqht diffeient things--that the Chinese broughtfirecrackeis, and-the Japanese brought kimonos, and the Portuguesebrouqht sausages, and the Koreans brought kim-chee, and theFilipi"nos, thev brought their own Filipino food, and things like that.Cah Vou tell he mo-re about the kind of things that each- communitycontrlbuted to the excitement in this community?

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The most I remember, as far as the Portuguese--l didnt know toomuch about sausages, but I do remember about the bread.

Portuguese bread?

Yes, well known homemade bread. And most of the Portuguese hadtheii oven in some part of their area. They had their own oven. ltis iust like an iqloo:-the Eskimo. They used to make their bread.Mdst Portugues6 had their own oven.

- That was well known.

So a lot of others started using the bread, too? A lot of Japanese?

The other nationalities started buying from them. lt was just forfamily consumption, but the other

-people wanted it, so they used tobuy--we used to buy.

What did the Chinese bring?

As far as Chinese, we don't know too much because they were juststart movinq out. We had about three or four Chinese elderly,retired or a-imost retired. They used to buy lotus root and waterchestnuts.

Oh, you used to sell lotus root to the Chinese? [Did] they like it?

Yes, and water chestnut. They used them in their cooking.

What did the Japanese contribute?

You mean their food?

Yes.

TheV were mostlv known for their sushi and--you see, they had alot of rice balls. 'They put those beanpaste around and sushi.

Tell me about the--did they have bon dances?

Oh ves. Those bon dances was during June, July, August, I think,eveiv vear. That's where the church had put a [unclear due tobarking dogl don't know too much about that, but we follow that'

Benshi movies?

Benshi, I don't know that.

It's okay. How about Shiba entertainment?

lf vou are talking about old days, there were not ta.lkies [films]. Soif'dv useO to frarie movies with ihe narrator on the side' He wouldmake all the talking for the person on the screen.

You have seen this before in Kahuku?

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Yes. Not in a theater, but this roving, movie maker [sic] made afortune with his car. They put a screen and. . . .

They came to Kahuku, too?

Yes, lto the] plantation. I think they come to all the plantations.

So when they cross this fence to go in, they got to get a pass?

Yes, correct.

And do they have to pay a fee to the plantation?

I think they must have or they might get in free. But we pay them,the people who bring the film.

How about the sakura card game?

I don't play the game, but it's a popular game by the Japanese. Theyget together socially.

[break in taping]

We are talking about the things the Korean people introduced toKahuku.

Nothing usual--l have a Korean friend; we used to play together.

Did they use any special kind of clothing?

No; not as far as we know. We all wear all the .same type of.clothinq. Probably the early ones probably had something, beforeour tinie, when tl'iey first came. [lt's the] same thing with theJapanese--their eailier attires I didn't see.

Among the Filipinos, what are the kinds of things the Filipinopeople brought to. . . .

They were the same

Did you enjoy any special kind of Filipino food?

Oh Ves. At the early years, I was young so I didn't get to eat withther,i. but mv brothdr-:he passed awav---he used to -eat a lot withthem. He us'ed to go to thbir house and eat, especially. dinuguan.That's meat cuts ahd other organs they cooked with the blood, therewas also pinakbet; that's the -eggplanf and bitter melon with somepork, pork skin.

Did the Filipinos have fighting chickens before?

Yes, I think that's the national pastime. They all like to raisethose--the bantam chicken, the'fighting game chicken.

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Did theKahuku

y have any occasions where they had fighting chickens in

Yes. I remember when I was small they used to have plants, sisalplants, all around and they had chicken fight there, in that area.

Was it organized by the plantation?

No. That was organized by the Filipino community.

And you had to pay to see?

No; at that time there was no charge. But there were some ladieswho took advantage of that and started selling Filipino food, somet<inO of pancake, iweet rice. Sometimes they -fraO tigl'tt, maybe, butin those days the fight was different. They used knives.

You mean the chicken?

No. Sometimgs they fight them with knives, but very seldom.

People? Human beings?

Yes, very seldom. [During] those years, way back, when they hadgrievanc-e first thing they do is--they bring their habits. Theyfight the way they fight at home. !n their native countriesl LikeFilipino probably rised knives at hom-e. Japanese, sorne use'clubs. I

remembbr from'a young kid experience, a group 6f Japanese boysstarted teasinq thls Filipino kid. The Filipino kid come with aknife, and we-[Japanese boys] started runhing away. And thisJapanese kid--born in Hawaii but raised in Japan--we used to callthem certain Japanese names, teased them, so they would comewith a stick. They start coming for us and we start running away.We vounger bovs were taught not to fight that's how it wascontiolledl [indistinguishable] Occasio-nally, they had some knives,but rarely. But wheh they do fight, they use knives, I think.

What else do you think you would like to tell me right now? I havefinished with rhost of my questions, so is there an-ytfring you wouldlike to tell me about Kahuku which vou feel that we should know? I

mean, that you feel that it should b-e remembered?

Overall, I think the way the plantation built up the Hawaii sugarindustrv. And after all the immigrants, it was better overall forall the'people. lf not for the Biq Five, I for one, probably wouldn'tbe in Hawaii. So [it is with] many of the Japanesb and Filipinos, I

think we are lucky io be heie. We should be thankful to the BigFive.

Can you tell me who the Big Five are?

For one, A and B, that's Alexander [and] Baldwin, American Factors,C. Brewers, T.H. Davies, and--there's another one--Castle andCooke, that's the one.

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All these five controlled Kahuku?

No, Hawaii.

The whole of Hawaii?

This is what we say; actually they all say--reading what theywrote--they say they are the Big Five.

So these Big Five; most of the people in Oahu were working forthem?

Yes, in Hawaii.

Not just Oahu?

All the islands [including] Hawaii, Maui, Oahu, Molokai, Kauai.

Out of these Big Five--

Kahuku was under Alexander and Baldwin.

So you feel that firstly you should be thankful to Alexander andBaldwin?

Yes.

So you feel that they did more good than harm?

All those people at the plantation at Waianae--l think Waianae wasunder American Factors.

Let me ask vou about Alexander and Baldwin and Kahuku; is thereanything thal you feel that Alexander and Baldwin should not havedone?

Not have done? No, I cannot think of anything that they shouldn'thave done; I don't think so, because whatever they did--the worstpart was during the strike.

Strike, 1946, is it?

No, 1920's. But that was for the industry. T..hey yvant to.have theindustrv be makinq profit. Some people called that exploiting otheroeoole'to make p-roTit. That's what capitalism is, capitalistbvst'em. These people can make money.. That's what they weredbino. So I don't see anvthinq wrong with that. lf not for that, wewoul"dn't be here, Vou know. There Wouldn't [be] any need for allthese immigrants- of different countries.

ls there anything else that you would like to say?

No, I have nothing else to saY.

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Okay, Mr, Yuki lrei of Kahuku, thank you very much, sir. lt was nicemeeiing you and talking to you, and you've told me a lot [about]Kahukri,'I'll be docum-entinb this. This will probably be docum'entedand remain documented for -a long time. Thank you very much, sir.

Thank you for coming.

END OF INTERVIEW

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