7th age of middle earth

[Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

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Quote: Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as 2nd Age and 3rd Age. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the 6th Age, or in the 7th. University of Oslo Excavation Site 2 Nordaustlandet, Norway

"I'm telling you, two more days like this, and I quit," Sven loudly proclaimed.

The others on the team ignored him. It was Svalbard in the winter, of course it was going to be cold. None of them wanted to dwell on the fact that it was much, much colder than usual today. Colder than yesterday, but not as cold as tomorrow, if the forecasts were accurate. If anything, the forecasts didn't go far enough. If it got much worse, there was unspoken agreement to abandon the dig and go back to the main camp until the weather improved. The retreating glacier wasn't likely to reverse course and cover up the dig site any time soon.

"Hey! Hey!" Lars called out from the north edge of the digging area. "I found something!" he yelled excitedly as he brushed snow off a large flat stone. "Look!"

The rest of the team gathered around him, helping to clear the stone of the snow that had covered it. It was a huge grey slab, easily twenty feet long and perhaps eight feet wide, covered with scratches.

Sven frowned down and traced some of the scratches with his glove. "This isn't weathering. It's writing."

Lars scoffed. "It's not writing. Those aren't runes. They're not anything."

Sven gave him a disdainful look. "Look at the curves, and - there! The same mark, here, and... here, and here. This is writing."

The others looked down and began to murmur excitedly. If it wasn't a hoax - and how could it have been, the glacier ice had covered this area for hundreds, probably thousands, of years - then this was much, much bigger than proof of Viking settlement on Nordaustlandet.

Without another word, they began to dig around the edges of the slab, frantically shoveling aside snow and breaking off chunks of ice. A sudden warm spell, unnoticed in their haste, speeded them along.

In moments, the slab and the area around it were clear. Above, the clouds thickened again, and an early twilight fell over the scene.

Lars stirred suddenly. "I don't know if we should touch it any more," he murmured nervously.

The archaeologists looked at each other, then at the stone slab and the strange writing upon it. "Maybe you're right," Sven began to say.

Then the slab broke, sundering down the middle, and bits of stone fell in - and then exploded out, as did a cloud of burning black smoke. There was a sudden

fire, and a roar that wasn't just the hiss of steam, a roar that drowned out the short-lived screams of the team members.

Windleton Mental Hospital Oxfordshire, UK

Sunita smiled down at the man in Room 25. As usual, he looked up at the ceiling, expression utterly vacant, and paid Sunita no mind as she cleaned him, and his bed. She kept up a running monologue as she did, no sense not trying to get through, even if nobody ever did. The man, anonymous and catatonic, hadn't said a word to anybody since he'd been found on the side of a road outside Wantage -

Sunita frowned. How long had Mister 25 been here? As long as she was working at the Hospital, of course, but that was only four years. Hadn't Abby, the senior nurse, said the man had been here since she'd started? That put it back probably twenty years. Amazing. All that time, he hadn't said a word, hadn't even so much as moved a -

The man suddenly stirred and looked up at Sunita with his bright blue eyes.

"Hey dol, hey dol, Tom Bombadil at last be a-waking," he said in a clear voice.

Sunita stepped back, startled, then caught herself. "Ah - good - good morning, sir," she said, trying not to sound as rattled as she was. She began to reach for the call button at the side of the bed, but something stopped her from pushing it.

"Merry morning, merry morning," the man answered as he sat up in bed and cast off the blanket. "But morning is passing, shadows are rising, and there's work to be done."

"Wait - "

The man - Tom? - sprang out of bed before Sunita could say another word. He grinned and bowed, then slipped right past her and out of the room.

"Sir, you - wait!" Sunita darted out after him, then stopped dead in her tracks. She looked left, and right, and back over her shoulder.

Tom was gone.

Anastasia Lavra Marinovsk, Russia

"Ohh, take a picture!" Patty whispered to her husband as they rounded a corner of the lane winding through the monastery grounds and came face to face with a stern old monk in a blue robe.

Travis smiled hesitantly as he held up the camera. "Okay?" he asked. "Okay?"

The monk looked at him, then at the camera as if he'd never seen one. The monk's brow furrowed, then he laughed and strode right past them.

"Well, that was rude," Patty sulked. They'd come all this way and none of the monks seemed at ALL interested in being nice to them, or any of the other members of the tour group. But this one was the absolute worst!

She looked back, ready to glare, but instead she gawked. The monk in the blue robe, who had apparently emerged from that cute tiny little church just ahead,

had run into three others, these clad in more familiar black, and the three were chattering excitedly. They seemed a bit awed, actually, and were speaking much, much too fast for Patty to even hope to keep up with her handy pocket dictionary.

"What are they saying?" she whispered to Travis. Travis just shrugged. He didn't know Russian any more than she did. The only word he could make out was "Balrog" - whatever that was - and the blue monk's name, or title, or something - the others kept calling him Rómestámo. Rome... maybe he was a Catholic?

Travis gave Patty a gentle nudge. They still hadn't seen the main church at the lavra, and the bus was going to leave in half an hour.

Patty sighed. There was something fishy about all of this. She was quite right, but she never found out any more about it.

****

It is the dawn of the Seventh Age. Ancient creatures, buried since the fall of Angband long millenia ago, are stirring. So to are those who can rise and stand against them.

But they will need your aid. Here and there, in far-flung lands, the Blood of Numenor runs strong once again. Strange dreams haunt you, dreams of drowned lands and beasts of fire and darkness. Soon now, you will be called to defend the world in secret from foes it can scarcely imagine. Will you rise to the challenge?

(Whaddaya think, sirs?)

12-27-2008, 08:27 AMIaldabaothRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Whaddaya think, sirs? Quote: Originally Posted by Dr. Forrester It stinks. In all seriousness? I would SO play in this campaign.

12-27-2008, 08:37 AMLiberatorRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Very cool idea.

12-27-2008, 09:16 AMBartmossRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

You know...there is something compelling about this idea...

12-27-2008, 09:27 AMMike TaylorRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Interesting. Had me hooked for sure.

12-27-2008, 12:24 PM

VaryarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Thankee. I just wish I could find a way to bring Hobbits into this.

12-27-2008, 12:36 PMMorandirRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Ialdabaoth View Post In all seriousness? I would SO play in this campaign. Ditto. This is the coolest idea I've seen in a long time!

Mor

12-27-2008, 04:10 PMs/LaSHRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Thankee. I just wish I could find a way to bring Hobbits into this. Well...

We know that some hobbits had ties with dwarves (mostly due to the Baggins family, who then left, but it's a precedent). Sometime during ages 4, 5, or 6 this may have resulted in deeper hobbit holes. As it is, their dwellings bore a suspicious similarity to the ancient mounds of the British Isles... so posit an event that forced the hobbits to seek refuge underground, possibly around the end of the Fifth Age, and have them still down there in caverns, hanging out with the dwarf folk. Our 'modern' mounds are just a tradition, when the tribes of Man attempted to emulate their vanished neighbors, and eventually forgot why...

As for the event, well, age 5 would have ended around the same time as the last Ice Age. This means massive flooding of low-lying shore regions, often good farming country, ie. prime hobbit country. Age 5 doesn't look like a good period, to be honest - covered with ice, ending with monstrous global flooding. Little wonder that Age 6 seems to have been almost entirely hunter-gatherer tribes of Men wandering the world, eventually beginning to experiment with cities again.

Which leads to the bigger question: What happened at the end of the Fourth Age to cause the Fifth Age to be so horrific? The thought of a balrog in the Seventh Age gives some inspiration: balrogs are creatures of fire, and fire has always been the motif of the Bad Guys. Dragons, balrogs, the orcish industries, Sauron's Eye...

Obviously someone thought it was time for a change. And they may have been right: the Ice Age worked, suppressing just about everybody. But who caused it? And why did it end? If Saruman hadn't been conclusively ended, his skill with storms and snow would be a candidate. But the best people to fight the ice would be those it hurt the most: the creatures of fire.

Is there a balrog or dragon out there who saved the world? How does that feel? And what do its peers think of this?

This is why I like following threads wherever they lead: they fill in gaps you never knew existed. I'm sure the four uncharted Ages have just as much cool epic stuff in them as the first three... charting it can help impart that to players, who will probably be familiar with the original story, and won't be expecti

ng a few twists from the future past.

12-27-2008, 07:10 PMDoctor,WildstormRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Can i have a quick run down of the 1st and 2nd ages? And this is so cool. And do the elves sail back in from the east? Or their land a place we know?

12-27-2008, 07:25 PMAraquaelRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I'd so play it, write it, run it, have its babies.

On another note, I'd stick to maybe a half dozen, or as many as seven "signature" NPCs who are ancient Maiar, or maybe Eldar, reborn. Tom, the Balrog, maybe Glorfindel; perhaps Saruman returned from The West to redeem himself as a new age threatens fire and death.

I'd give the PCs powers or splats in the form of "reborn bloodlines" - the Numenorean blood being the main one, but perhaps a few with Sindarin blood - and orc blood. The Hobbits, of course, are the ancestors of the entire population of England. The Britons, the Romans, the Angles, the Saxons, the Danes, the Normans and others have come and gone, but the people endured, with a lot of green hills and beer, song and laughter. Sure more than a few have a tendency to running to fat...

You could go anywhere with this. From finding the ancient Hobbit warrens beneath Oxford and the ruins of an Elvish city in the Severn Estuary - which is where the Shire and the Grey Havens were meant to be - to fighting bands of orc gangsters in modern London. Find the lost city of Troy and the walls of Minas Tirith far beneath. Fight against a new shadow rising from the hidden places of the world.

12-27-2008, 07:28 PMVaryarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by s/LaSH View Post Well...

We know that some hobbits had ties with dwarves (mostly due to the Baggins family, who then left, but it's a precedent). Sometime during ages 4, 5, or 6 this may have resulted in deeper hobbit holes. As it is, their dwellings bore a suspicious similarity to the ancient mounds of the British Isles... so posit an event that forced the hobbits to seek refuge underground, possibly around the end of the Fifth Age, and have them still down there in caverns, hanging out with the dwarf folk. Our 'modern' mounds are just a tradition, when the tribes of Man attempted to emulate their vanished neighbors, and eventually forgot why... I do like that. Or perhaps they abandoned the Shire (UK) and fled to first Ireland and then Iceland (inspiring, perhaps, local legends)? Stephen Lawhead's Arthurian series had a sort-of-Hobbit people survive into the fourth century AD. They were dwindling, and had legends that one day they would all leave for a different land in the far West. I'm tempted to steal that idea and have the last few Hobbits permitted to enter Valinor (thus allowing Hobbit PCs - more below).

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/LaSH View Post Is there a balrog or dragon out there who saved the world? How does that feel? And what do its peers think of this?

This is why I like following threads wherever they lead: they fill in gaps you never knew existed. I'm sure the four uncharted Ages have just as much cool epic stuff in them as the first three... charting it can help impart that to players, who will probably be familiar with the original story, and won't be expecting a few twists from the future past. In-deed. ::cackle::

Working off the top of my head here - I see the Fourth Age as ending with the destruction of the Reunified Kingdom founded by Elessar. Eventually, it splinters into many different petty kingdoms, much as Arnor did an age and a half earlier. But by now, with the Elves all but gone (only a few furtive folks, shy of Men, dwell in Mirkwood and other sylvan refuges), the memory of Numenor and the Elder Days is very, very faint. The Dunedain no longer exist as a cohesive ethnic group, and Numenor becomes a myth that no longer binds anyone together. The Fifth Age is a time of confusion and decay, fostered by the remaining spirits of Darkness from earlier times. Nothing on the level of Sauron, or even the Balrog of Moria, remains, but a few minor Maia still do their best to stamp out the embers of Numenor and the Elves. It ends in ice, brought on by - whom? Some icy Balrog-equivalent of the North? The last act of the Valar before they are lost to garbled pagan myths? Who can say? The Sixth Age begins with the reformation of civilization after the Great Ice, and Eru Himself works in strange new ways unforeseen by any of the Wise.

Quote: Originally Posted by Doctor,Wildstorm View Post Can i have a quick run down of the 1st and 2nd ages? Certainly!

The First Age is very short, only about five centuries. It begins when Feanor and a great host of Noldor return to Middle-earth in pursuit of Morgoth and the Silmarils (supernaturally powerful gems of great beauty that Morgoth stole from Feanor), and ends when the Valar and loyal Elves invade Middle-earth just as Morgoth is all but triumphant over his foes.

The Second Age rises directly out of the First. Most of the Elves leave Middle-earth, and the Men who were faithful to the Valar are given a new land, Numenor, to dwell in between Middle-earth and Valinor. After a long time, the Men of Numenor fall from grace and become evil. The Rings of Power are forged and Sauron threatens to conquer Middle-earth. The king of Numenor defeats Sauron and takes him prisoner, but the prisoner soon becomes the puppet-master. Sauron goads the Numenoreans into attacking Valinor itself, the Valar abandon their stewardship of Middle-earth and Eru destroys Numenor. The loyal survivors, lead by Elendil and his sons, flee to Middle-earth and aid the Elves in defeating Sauron. Sauron is slain, but not destroyed, and the One Ring, claimed by Elendil's surviving son, is soon lost.

Quote: Originally Posted by Doctor,Wildstorm View Post And this is so cool. And do the elves sail back in from the east? Or their land a place we know? Their land is (if you'll excuse switching to sci-fi terminology) a pocket dimension of sorts. It exists very near Earth, but can only be reached if the Valar wish it. Otherwise, those who sail west from Middle-earth just end up hitting North America.

As for the Elves returning, absolutely. The Valar have sent emissaries to ai

d the people of Middle-earth before (Gandalf and Saruman and the other Wizards), and they may do so again as the campaign begins. (Thus you can have Elf and maybe Hobbit PCs, returnees from Valinor who've come to aid the Dunedain-blooded humans)

12-27-2008, 07:30 PMKakita Kojiro

Quote: Originally Posted by s/LaSH View Post Obviously someone thought it was time for a change. And they may have been right: the Ice Age worked, suppressing just about everybody. But who caused it? And why did it end? If Saruman hadn't been conclusively ended, his skill with storms and snow would be a candidate. But the best people to fight the ice would be those it hurt the most: the creatures of fire. Although Sauron was probably greatest of the Maiar who served Morgoth, there were probably others in addition to the Balrogs who turned to Morgoth's side. Also, the two Blue Wizards may have gone bad, as well.

However, we never learned the ultimate fate of Ungoliant, although her daughters are all about. She laired in the cold north, and had a hunger for light... she could have set a snare for Arien, and sucked away some of the Sun's light, causing an Ice Age.

The death-throes of Ungoliant could also have caused enough catostrophic damage to change the shorelines of Middle-Earth yet again, too.


Quote: Originally Posted by Doctor,Wildstorm View Post Can i have a quick run down of the 1st and 2nd ages? And this is so cool. And do the elves sail back in from the east? Or their land a place we know? First age: Creation; all existence was formed by a song. However one of the "angels" (the Valar) rebelled against the song and there was a war in heaven. The song, now flawed, created the world, and created the firstborn, the Elves; and the Secondborn, beloved of god, Man. The rebel angel, called Morgoth (the Dark Enemy, or Satan) created monsters in mockery of man. The Elves awakened in the East and were guided to the West by the Valar. However, to cut a long story short, Morgoth attacked the domain of the Angels (Aman) and the Elves swore vengeance and marched back into the world to make war on him. Before the first sunrise, Elves and monsters fought. The Valar turned their back on the world.

Man awakens with the first sunrise, and travel west and populate the world. They encounter the elves - and Morgoth's creatures. Some side with the Elves. Many side with Morgoth. What follows was a multigenerational war, which saw the greatest of heroes arise - and fall. The great kingdoms of elves and men were destroyed one by one, by war, by treachery, by civil strife. When all seemed darkest, and Morgoth was preparing his final blow, a man born of Elf and Man sailed into the west to ask the Valar for aid. His name was Earendil. The Host of the Valar march to war, and Morgoth is thrown down and the world is broken and remade. Thus ends the First Age of the Sun.

The Second Age of the Sun followed. The Valar raised an island in the great western sea, within a distant, distant view of Aman, their home. This was Numenor. The men who fought alongside the Elves in the First Age made that place their home. They were rewarded with many things - with great health, great strength,

greatly extended lives; they were cursed too, without knowing it. They were bound to fate in the way the Elves were. But the world was at peace for nearly a thousand years.

Unmarked by the powers, one of Morgoth's servants, who had survived the breaking of the world, arose and walked abroad. He set about creating an empire in the distant lands of Middle Earth. At one crucial point he went, in disguise to the Elves and learned of their fear: they feared the changing of the world. They knew their doom was to drift away from the world, and they feared it. Sauron offered them the knowledge to help preserve their world. He would help them make magical rings of power, with which they could rule and preserve the world they loved. Of course, they did not understand what he was doing. He made one final ring which made all the other rings of power his tools (save three which were hidden from him). With the power of the One Ring, Sauron became a demi god again, and all Middle Earth fell before him. He destroyed the Elf kingdoms in the north. But in his moment of triumph, the men of Numenor sailed from the west and defeated his armies. But Sauron himself was not destroyed. The Numenoreans slowly usurped the old Elvish domains, becoming colonists and later empire builders. A shadow grew in Numenor. The men of the west, with their extended lifespans noted that they no longer lived as long as their grandsires. The gift of long life was failing. They became obsessed with death, obsessed, too, with lives of luxuries. Atlantis (for that is what Numenor was) was falling to corruption from within. Numenor endured for a thousand years, but the shadow grew ever darker, and man's pride became ever hungrier. The Numenoreans felled the forests and built ports and cities, and sought out lore to prevent death. Then Sauron arose again in Mordor and challenged Numenor. A great fleet set sail for Middle Earth. Sauron seemed so afraid of the might of the island kingdom that he surrendered and was taken prisoner. He remained a captive for some time, but one cannot keep a demi god in chains for long. He was released to serve as an advisor to the king. The old ways were abanoned and replaced by death cults who practiced human sacrifices.

A few refused to entreat with Sauron, or partake in these vile rituals. They were the "faithful" and when Sauron's words stoked the king's passion and caused the king to send a huge war fleet against Aman, the home of the Valar, the faithful fled to the mainland. The king's fleet was destroyed, and Numenor was drowned, and seven ships of the faithful emerged from the great storms to land on the shores of Middle Earth. These faithful were later known as the Dunedain. They founded two kingdoms, of Arnor and Gondor.

Sauron survived the doom of Numenor and returned to Mordor, where he unleashed utter war against the Dunedain. But they were still the mighty warriors of old. They formed the Last Alliance of Elves and Men and fought a nearly decade long war against Mordor. Sauron was defeated when the One Ring was cut from his finger. His followers were killed and his fortress destroyed.

Thus ended the Second Age.

12-27-2008, 08:49 PMColin FredericksRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

A few interesting unrecovered items can make for a good plot each. Items carried into the West are not included on this list.

Three of the Seven Dwarven Rings and all of the Nine Rings of Men were with Sauron when he went down. Perhaps buried, perhaps destroyed, perhaps powerless with the One gone.

Some of the Palantiri are "lost" or difficult to use by the end of the Third Age, but not a single one is destroyed.

The massive Stone of Erech is utterly unaccounted-for.

Most important, one of the Silmarils was thrown into the sea and remained there. It was "lost," which is sort of like saying that Captain America was frozen in the Arctic.

12-27-2008, 10:14 PMVultur10Re: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Another Silmaril was thrown into a flaming crack in the earth. It could be found by deep mining, or a volcano might spew it out. (I doubt a volcanic eruption would even scratch a Silmaril).

Interestingly, in the never-completed "The Lost Road", Tolkien put the "Middle-Earth" eras before the Ice Age. This is probably better to use than the Letters' 6000 years, since we now know of ruins and sites older than 6000 years. The Ice Age covered up much of Europe, so most Middle-Earth places would have been destroyed. (Pelargir and such, maybe not, but it could be underwater, or simply so eroded we haven't found it yet.)

12-28-2008, 12:53 AMOmegatronRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Amazing Varyar, as always.

I actually worked on a fan-fic novella along this same line several years ago. Got about seventy pages in before I lost it. Now is the Seventh Age, no Tolkien had ever existed, Morgoth's will being worked again, archaeologists and scientists and street toughs all discovering the secret history of the world. My main character was the (almost completely normal, with no powers to speak of) descendent of the Hobbits, in the posession of the Red Book of the Westmarch. Another of the characters was going to be Turin Turinbar Reborn, with powerful players being the enfleshed Avatars of the Valar. Also Pallando, Radagast. An Entwife. Silmarils returning as the macguffins. The O.R.C. "virus". Tom Bombadil, and the return of horrid creatures. I called it "the Second Symphony" because the book was going to end with the Dagor Dagorath and the Second Music of the Ainur.

It wasn't very good, I can't write. It was a cliche Urban Fantasy fic, but it started as more Lovecraft (with Arda and Valinor instead of R'lyeh and Yuggoth), and ended more like Neon Genesis Evangelion.

As for System, I think ORE would be best. An altered Nemesisto start, with the Madness Gauges altered/replaced by "memory," "truth," or "connection" to the old world or Soul... As things get crazier, add/alter the ruleset to more closely resemble REIGN (Companies, Mass Combat, Martial Paths, Esoteric Disciplines, Magic). In the Apocalyptic chapters, with fully-empowered Ainur and Dragons and the World Ending and what have you, maybe something more like Wild Talents.

12-28-2008, 01:43 AMThanaeonRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Kakita Kojiro View Post However, we never learned the ultimate fate of Ungoliant, although her daughters are all about. She laired in the cold north, and had a hunger for light...

she could have set a snare for Arien, and sucked away some of the Sun's light, causing an Ice Age.

The death-throes of Ungoliant could also have caused enough catostrophic damage to change the shorelines of Middle-Earth yet again, too. I seem to recall the Silmarillion describing her fate after her falling-out with Morgoth: she retreated to a desert and finally, hungry beyond reason, ate herself.

As for the OP: awe-inspiring and very, very intriguing.

12-28-2008, 03:02 AMPsykieKILLARe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I would play this till my eyes bled and I lost my spleen (for some reason... I don't honestly know why...)

But honestly, this sounds like the coolest Setting Riff I have ever seen here, although I can't remember exactly but the one about the 'Dungeons' opening all over the world due to Atomic Testing was also fantastic.

12-28-2008, 03:52 AMMichael CuleRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

See THIS HIDEOUS STRENGTH by C.S. Lewis.

12-28-2008, 07:19 AMTheRoleplayerRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Seems as if I'll finally give Middle-Earth a try....

12-28-2008, 11:46 AMKakita Kojiro

Quote: Originally Posted by Thanaeon View Post I seem to recall the Silmarillion describing her fate after her falling-out with Morgoth: she retreated to a desert and finally, hungry beyond reason, ate herself. At one time, Tolkien also had her slain by Eärendil in one of his voyages to the south. And she may have been one of the Maiar, anyway, in which case getting killed may not take her out of the picture, anyway.

It's all "off-screen", as it were though, so she'd certainly be up for consideration.


Ungoliant's definitely open for use: "some have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine she devoured herself at last." So that might not have happened at all, and even if it did there could be a sort of Ungoliant-ghost remaining (the way Sauron was reduced to "a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind" after Numenor's fall). She ended up in the far South, so I think she'd be s

omewhere in Africa - perhaps laired in the deep rainforests of the Congo Basin or in one of the CO2-emitting lakes of Cameroon. (Could she live underwater?)

12-28-2008, 02:27 PMIthaeurRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Looking very interesting! I'm not sure if you need any evil force behind the ice age... maybe the remaining powers of darkness were just using the opportunity to erase the memory of the earlier ages?

Here is another take of the idea of later ages of Middle-Earth, although the Sixth Age in them isn't our present world.

12-28-2008, 02:50 PMOlof JönssonRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I can easily see the elves hiding out in the deep forests of Sweden and Finland (and Dwarves still living deep underneath the *old* mountains of Northern Sweden and Norway). It'd explain our old Nordic/Norse elves that inspired Tolkien (well, not in this world, perhaps?), and tales of beautiful, nigh-glowing woodrues and water sprites (Näcken, f'rex). Anyone who's walked in the forests of middle Sweden or large portions of Finland can attest to them being...eerie. Check out art by John Bauer for inspiration, too.

Orcs and goblins and trolls would be the origin for modern myths of redcaps and...well, goblins and trolls, with very few of the orcs still around (though the image of goblins and trolls hiding beneath the mountains of Europe and Central Asia and having silent, hidden, eternal wars with the Dwarves appeal to me for some reason) if at all.

12-28-2008, 02:55 PMChadeRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I like this idea a lot. Too bad it could never actually be printed up and sold as a setting.


A hasty Big Bad idea...

In ages past, the Maia Ossë was the guardian of the seas of the world. Ever did he have a fierce temper, and a hatred for those who brought harm to the seas or those who sailed him. As the Sixth Age waned, Man poured forth filth and poison into the waters of the world, and great harm upon the fish and beasts of the waves, arousing Ossë's rage. A time came when he could no longer be restrained by the gentle words of Uinen or the commands of Ulmo. On that day, Ossë became Gaearonrûth, the Wrathful Ocean. He has turned into a spirit of endless anger, one who unleashes ever more powerful storms that batter the cities of Men, and who has called the great beasts of the deepest waters to drag down ships across all the oceans of Arda.

And, of course, the Dagor Dagorath could be used.

12-28-2008, 03:55 PMTheFourthman

Re: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Hmm.. So is this a game about rediscovery? Fighting off the enemy? Mean I'm trying to figure out what you have in mind.

Also is the Fellowship of the Ring now a NATO taskforce? :p

12-28-2008, 03:59 PMProteusRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Ooh, I like Ungoliant as the villainous mastermind.

Mostly because I'm tempted to have some of her agents working at CERN.

"I stress that the nature and behaviour of this new quantum field is not yet well-understood. But the experiments speak for themselves. As I'll show you in detail in the next few slides, these new particles behave in many ways like anti-photons, but we all know that the photon is its own antiparticle. There's no such thing as Antilight.

So we've been calling it . . . Unlight."

-Proteus


I kind of like the idea that the overarching plot seems to be drifting towards the Dagor Dagoroth (ala Werewolf the Apocalypse heading towards The Apocalypse), but not neccesarily going there, as our heroes somehow prevent the doom from befalling the world.

I like the idea of one of the great powers of the elder world going bad and needing to be confronted and destroyed. Thematically, the adversary for our age might be an elder Elf, one of the ancient Noldor. One of the sons of Feanor, Maglor perhaps?

Or perhaps a new dark religion arises in the world, one worshipping Morgoth, (a new New Shadow, as it were), one that exalts the burning of the woodlands and the destruction of nature. This is not something obvious like an evil corporation (ala Pentex), but rather a pervasive need to worship something old and corrupt. Members of the dark religion sacrifice their children to the darkness. In return something comes back, something tainted by the night. An orc. They look like men, with dark oiley eyes, but they are strong and violent and cannibalistic and when the rage comes on them, they change. And their numbers are increasing by the year.

With them comes dark magic and darker things. The world needs heroes.


Quote: Originally Posted by Araquael View Post ... In return something comes back, something tainted by the night. An orc. They look like men, with dark oiley eyes, but they are strong and violent and cannibalistic and when the rage comes on them, they change. And their numbers are increasing by the year.

Sounds more like mewlips, actually. And that would certainly be fallow ground to be exploited.

Plus, I'd suggest leaving the orcs to be the counterpoint to the thinned-blood-of-Numenor types. So you'd have descendants of Bill Ferny's orcish friend, who're called to Morgoth's service just as the distant Numenoreans are called to serve the Valar.

Actually, you could probably add in Beorning or Wose descendants, too.

Also, other bad guys to consider: all those "fell spirit" types that served Morgoth (and maybe Sauron) and were embodied in bestial forms -- werewolves and vampires; probably others, too (gorcrows, maybe). Like other spirit beings, they'd be difficult to kill, but probably not able to reembody themselves without help from whichever new power of evil was around.

12-28-2008, 10:11 PMRavenswingRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Thankee. I just wish I could find a way to bring Hobbits into this. Easy. They burrowed all the way to Pellucidar. Quote: I like the idea of one of the great powers of the elder world going bad and needing to be confronted and destroyed. Thematically, the adversary for our age might be an elder Elf, one of the ancient Noldor. One of the sons of Feanor, Maglor perhaps? Eh, no reason why not. All the other sons of Feanor are dead and accounted for, but Maglor was the sole known survivor of the lot of them, however much in eternal pain and loss. He never would have been allowed to return to Aman, and he may well have survived the drowning of Beleriand.

Hell ... if I was going to do it, I'd have Maglor not have been frozen, not to have been entombed ... just to keep going on and on. He has been the secret master behind much of the destruction in the world: an advisor to Caligula ... Bishop Arnaud of the Albigensian Crusade ... Maulana Nasiruddin, the counselor of Tamurlane ... whether he was Lavrenti Beria or Gezo of Dahomey, Bohdan Khmelnytsky or Ta Mok, he has ever sought to plunge the world into death and destruction, because only when all life has been purged Eru Iluvatar's prophesied Second Music can begin, and his long torment end at last in peace and purity.

12-28-2008, 10:18 PMJohnBilesRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I have this mental image of a new star in the sky, the light of Earendil shining once more at dawn and dusk.

(I love the idea of spy satellites photographing him in his ship with his Silmaril and going crazy trying to figure out what the hell is going on and who is pranking them...)

12-28-2008, 11:02 PMSharrukinRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I once wrote a treatment for a short campaign arc kind of like this.

I imagined a US nuclear missile submarine being taken over by fell-spirits and launching against the Doors of Night, so that Morgoth could return to the world. I also had Ulmo detaching the British Isles from the sea-bed and using them as a great ship along the Straight Road to the Undying Lands, carrying an army of Men to fight in the Dagor Dagorath.

Never got to run the thing, alas.

12-29-2008, 12:06 AMVultur10Re: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

A campaign with a Son of Feanor or any other powerful 1st Age Eldarin Elf as a foe will be tricky. These beings should be an order of magnitude more powerful than ordinary humans, especially since in Arda later generations tend to be lesser than those preceding. Even looking upon the face of one of the greater Elves should be an emotional, almost epiphanic, experience -- the Calaquendi were said to have the light of Aman reflected in their faces.

Feanor is supposed to return at the End, but this should probably be offscreen .. his overpowering personality and immense abilities will take over any campaign.

(Feanor created the Silmarils, jewels of unsullied light that could be destroyed by no lesser being; invented telescopic lenses* in Eru only knows how many B.C.; devised an alphabet; faced down Melkor (before he was even in his diminished Morgoth-state!) without fear; and battled multiple Balrogs for hours before finally being killed (and then by an attack from behind!). Even Gandalf described his skill and mind as "unimaginable".

*Really. Or at least something equivalent in function: the Silmarillion mentions jewels in which far-away things could be seen as small but clear images, clearly some sort of lens.

Imagine giving Feanor an IQ test. I doubt he'd even be on the scale; maybe 300+? (Genius level is 150+; the world record is 210.)


Good stuff, all, and a few ideas I plan to steal for when I run this :D

Now then. Let's talk remnants. In the real world, there are no ruins of Middle-earth because it didn't exist. But in the Seventh Age, there will be a few faint traces of the Elder Days that survived the Ice Age.

Moria is the most obvious candidate - it's safely underground, away from the obliterating power of glaciers. And it was built to endure for ages upon ages - when the Fellowship passed through, it was already at least 60 centuries old. Given its placement in Norway, NAZIS! come to mind as a plot hook. What discoveries did German combat engineers make during their occupation of Norway during WW2? The Balrog is dust, of course, but perhaps some relics of the Dwarves last days in Moria, after it was reclaimed in the Fourth Age, remain.

For that matter, maybe in some deep caverns, the last few hammers of the Dwarves still ring. Maybe the medieval Germanic legends of Dwarves had their source in Moria? (Which is so ironic I want to use it now.)

If you don't want to go spelunking, there's always Umbar. According to Plato

(or his Sixth Age version), there were Atlantean colonies all along the shores of Libya, and fringe archaeologists have long sought evidence of them. In Roman times, the Berbers were known to dwell in ancient ruins of great size and sophistication. The greatest of these, never discovered, was given the name Umghar (or Old Man) by the Berbers. Some Berber myths say Umghar was the home of their most distant ancestors, great sea-kings with the blood of the gods.

12-29-2008, 07:01 PMJohnBilesRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

The Balrog is a Maiar; I doubt it would actually die, but it could be sleeping down in Moria, and now starting to stir as things head towards their end. (I like the idea of an adventure where the PCs have to go into Moria to stop neo-nazis from waking it up .)

12-29-2008, 07:19 PMdolfanarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post The Fifth Age is a time of confusion and decay, fostered by the remaining spirits of Darkness from earlier times. Nothing on the level of Sauron, or even the Balrog of Moria, remains, but a few minor Maia still do their best to stamp out the embers of Numenor and the Elves. It ends in ice, brought on by - whom? Some icy Balrog-equivalent of the North? The last act of the Valar before they are lost to garbled pagan myths? Who can say? The Sixth Age begins with the reformation of civilization after the Great Ice, and Eru Himself works in strange new ways unforeseen by any of the Wise. Another Option (for those willing to mix things up)... have the fifth age filled in by REH's Age of Conan, with "Atlantis" actually a twisted memory of Elessar's kingdom, and Conan and his tribe are the lost/displaced descendants of the Numenorian line. "Set" is actually another facet of Sauron attempting to return to the earth. There are enough similarities (magic being almost universally toed to evil for instance.and the natural cultural similarities) that with a bit of fudgery you can blend into a very cool, rich tapestry.


Quote: Originally Posted by JohnBiles View Post The Balrog is a Maiar; I doubt it would actually die, but it could be sleeping down in Moria, and now starting to stir as things head towards their end. (I like the idea of an adventure where the PCs have to go into Moria to stop neo-nazis from waking it up .) But you can call kill Maiar. It's not easy, by any means, but the act of taking a body weakens them even as it lets them physically interact with Middle-earth. Getting weapons that can actually hurt an incarnate Maia could take up a good portion of a campaign, couldn't it?

Quote: Originally Posted by dolfanar View Post Another Option (for those willing to mix things up)... have the fifth age filled in by REH's Age of Conan, with "Atlantis" actually a twisted memory of Elessar's kingdom, and Conan and his tribe are the lost/displaced descendants of the Numenorian line. "Set" is actually another facet of Sauron attempting to return to the earth. There are enough similarities (magic being almost universally toe

d to evil for instance.and the natural cultural similarities) that with a bit of fudgery you can blend into a very cool, rich tapestry. Huh. That could be neat, but my knowledge of Conan and his world is limited to the movies and not much else.


Quote: Originally Posted by Vultur10 View Post *Really. Or at least something equivalent in function: the Silmarillion mentions jewels in which far-away things could be seen as small but clear images, clearly some sort of lens. Those would probably be things like the palantíri, and the Seat of Seeing on Amon Hen.


Quote: Originally Posted by dolfanar View Post Another Option (for those willing to mix things up)... have the fifth age filled in by REH's Age of Conan, with "Atlantis" actually a twisted memory of Elessar's kingdom, and Conan and his tribe are the lost/displaced descendants of the Numenorian line. "Set" is actually another facet of Sauron attempting to return to the earth. There are enough similarities (magic being almost universally toed to evil for instance.and the natural cultural similarities) that with a bit of fudgery you can blend into a very cool, rich tapestry. Definitely cool stuff here. See, the players aren't the only ones who have been having dreams...others, with the blood of Numenor in their veins, have seen the past, been touched by forces both good and evil. Some of those have written down what they saw; all interpreted their visions in different ways, but it's all there, vitally important information waiting to painstakingly teased from the pages of literature.

If you could pull if off, this would be incredibly awesome. You could have your players actually going through various literary works - especially more modern Fantasy/S&S stuff (I'm thinking Howard, Lovecraft, Lewis, and obviously Tolkien) - looking for clues between sessions.

Mor

12-29-2008, 09:50 PMSimon HogwoodRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by dolfanar View Post Another Option (for those willing to mix things up)... have the fifth age filled in by REH's Age of Conan, with "Atlantis" actually a twisted memory of Elessar's kingdom, and Conan and his tribe are the lost/displaced descendants of the Numenorian line. "Set" is actually another facet of Sauron attempting to return to the earth. There are enough similarities (magic being almost universally toed to evil for instance.and the natural cultural similarities) that with a bit of fudgery you can blend into a very cool, rich tapestry. If one wanted to go this route, there's a very interesting timeline here that might be of some use (although it does put the Third Age a good deal further back than 6000 years - but then, that's already been discussed), for an idea mine if nothing else.


I started thinking about this... I believe this campaign would probably have to go the "secret war" route. If someone were to rebuild Angband in Finland and launch their armies from there to subjugate all of Earth, I think the likeliest outcome would be the nuking of Angband to a glowing wasteheap. (Not that nuking Angband, as an idea, doesn't amuse me.)

Similarly, unless we're assuming Matrix-level ability, even an ancient elven lord would be dead meat if caught in the open on the wrong end of a dozen machine guns.

So unless the new dark lords were suicidally stupid, they'd probably form shadow governments and use mortal puppets to do their ruling for them. Thus, by necessity, the good guys would have to do the same thing.

12-30-2008, 12:54 AMShanGRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Thanaeon View Post So unless the new dark lords were suicidally stupid, they'd probably form shadow governments and use mortal puppets to do their ruling for them. Thus, by necessity, the good guys would have to do the same thing. Most likely, based on the way 'history' has gone in the past, they will actually start out by working in secret to build up enough force to fight openly, while simultaneously undermining those able to fight them. There are frequent periods of stalemate where the forces of evil are unable to win, but aren't defeated either.

Really, I think the best source of inspiration for this new era would actually be the Hobbit. In that timeframe, Sauron is operating as 'the Necromancer' and his true identity is only beginning to become known. Gandalf and the other Wizards go and fight him personally, but they don't bring armies even though they probably could.

Also, Bilbo has a fun adventure where he goes off with some dwarves to fight a dragon, which only indirectly ties into the fate of the entire world. I think things like that are important in a game setting, moreso than having a single epic plot or metaplot.


Quote: Originally Posted by ShanG View Post Most likely, based on the way 'history' has gone in the past, they will actually start out by working in secret to build up enough force to fight openly, while simultaneously undermining those able to fight them. There are frequent periods of stalemate where the forces of evil are unable to win, but aren't defeated either.

Really, I think the best source of inspiration for this new era would actually be the Hobbit. In that timeframe, Sauron is operating as 'the Necromancer' and his true identity is only beginning to become known. Gandalf and the other Wiz

ards go and fight him personally, but they don't bring armies even though they probably could.

Also, Bilbo has a fun adventure where he goes off with some dwarves to fight a dragon, which only indirectly ties into the fate of the entire world. I think things like that are important in a game setting, moreso than having a single epic plot or metaplot. Good point. I was just musing after I realised that setting up a dark fortress from which to send forth one's dark legions to conquer all would be a pretty stupid idea in the common age without a working missile defence systen, and that "even the mightiest warrior can be slain by a bullet, and Feänor was hit by many".

The implications of that will have to be taken into account in the setting design, because you can be sure the players will find make use of any openings that exist.

12-30-2008, 01:02 AMRabid Southern Cross FanRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Very interesting ideas. Sort of Cthulhu-esque approach to things in my opinion (though maybe without the Insanity Inducing qualities we all know and love from Lovecraftian literature :D). Anyway, wanted to clear up a few misconceptions:

a.) Tolkien apparently rejected the 'mythical' beginning of the world about the time he wrote much of The Lord of the Rings. In otherwords, the Flat Earth and No Sun/Moon until Man Awoke. The Awakening in Cuiveinen, in Tolkiens later writings, is very different. Yes, the Quendi awoke in starlight, but the Sun and Moon had long existed before their coming. Literally speaking, the version told in The Silmarillion is a legend passed down to the Numenoreans who probably could not concieve of Ea being anything more than the world (when in fact it was the whole of Creation...ie - The Universe).

b.) Beleriand, Dorthonion and Hithlum didn't so much 'sink beneath the waves' as it was the end of the Ice Age that Morgoth had locked the world into when the Elves awoke. The lands were lower than that of Eriador and Wilderland, thus were flooded. This would be one of the glaciation periods during the Pleistocene, with the 2nd & 3rd Age representing one of the frequent Inter-Glacial Periods during the last Ice Age and finally ending (totally redrawing the map) with Great Flood circa 10kya.

c.) Morinehtar and Romenstammo were both said to have actually succeeded in their mission, unlike Saruman and Radagast.

Now, having said that, might I make a few suggestions:

- Radagast should still be around. I kinda figured he was the basis for the wizard Math, Myrddin and other legends of men who cast spells. Having him as an aged Monk living in Russia is a nice touch. ;)

- Saruman MIGHT be able to take on physical form once more, though he would likely be horribly scarred etc. Perhaps he's been able to come to terms with what he did in the 3rd Age and really wants to help. He'd likely try to find the remains of his Staff that Gandalf shattered at Isengard.

- Definitely like the idea of Maglor still running around. However, he might be a good guy instead of a psychopathic nutter. He would likely be a long-haired 'hippie' musician playing on some street corner for his supper (think Christopher Walken in Prophecy 3).

- As for Ungoliant, definitely high on the list of potential 'baddies'. Its possible she was able to alter her Spider fana so as to appear as a human (Lolth anyone?) and probably starts all kinds of death cults centered around worshipping her. She might also long for the 'good old days' when she first followed Morgoth to Arda before assuming her spider form (since she had been a Maia, probably of Yavanna's folk, before rebelling).


Was Thuringwethil ever killed? My recollection is that she wasn't.


Quote: Originally Posted by Thanaeon View Post Was Thuringwethil ever killed? My recollection is that she wasn't. I don't believe so. Yet another good candidate for big-time baddie. Another thing to consider is that, unlike The Forces of Good, the followers of Morgoth probably won't unify and will spend as much energy fighting each other as they do the heroes. They may remember the good times under their old boss, but they probably hate each other's guts.

As for system usage, this screams for nWoD in my opinion. Definitely like the idea of it being more modern horror than simply Fireballs & Firearms.


Quote: Originally Posted by Rabid Southern Cross Fan View Post As for system usage, this screams for nWoD in my opinion. Definitely like the idea of it being more modern horror than simply Fireballs & Firearms. That's why I think a Nemesis + REIGN matchup is best. :)

12-30-2008, 02:39 AMJohnBilesRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Rabid Southern Cross Fan View Post

- As for Ungoliant, definitely high on the list of potential 'baddies'. Its possible she was able to alter her Spider fana so as to appear as a human (Lolth anyone?) and probably starts all kinds of death cults centered around worshipping her. She might also long for the 'good old days' when she first followed Morgoth to Arda before assuming her spider form (since she had been a Maia, probably of Yavanna's folk, before rebelling).

Ungoliant would be a good source for the Kali cults of the Thugee.

12-30-2008, 04:28 AMTakeiRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

What a great thread! I've not read the Middle Earth histories books for a long time, but a couple of things bubbled up in my memory;

There is a reference to the elves of the West returning to Middle Earth to 'rescue' their bretheren trapped there. Something similar to their attack against Melkor in the First (?) age.

A boy in modern times has dreams of clouds shaped as eagles coming from the west and a voice (?) speaking of Numenor. IIRC this passage also mentions the dream being almost contact with someone on Numenor before the fall.

I'm looking forward to following this thread as it developes.

12-30-2008, 08:48 AMdolfanarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Morandir View Post Definitely cool stuff here. See, the players aren't the only ones who have been having dreams...others, with the blood of Numenor in their veins, have seen the past, been touched by forces both good and evil. Some of those have written down what they saw; all interpreted their visions in different ways, but it's all there, vitally important information waiting to painstakingly teased from the pages of literature.

If you could pull if off, this would be incredibly awesome. You could have your players actually going through various literary works - especially more modern Fantasy/S&S stuff (I'm thinking Howard, Lovecraft, Lewis, and obviously Tolkien) - looking for clues between sessions.

Mor The Arthurian tales are also a natual tie-in. I mean Gandalf and his brood are obviously borrowing from Merlin.

Arthur -- A long lost descendant of Aragorn Merlin -- Gandalf reborn Excalibur -- Anduril In some versions Oberon -- Ingwe (King of the Elves) or Elrond Lady of the Lake -- Galadriel back in middle-earth or Arwen looking to help out her great, great x100 grandson

I like the idea of having Gandalf & Elrond returning to the world to help Arwen who has been fading away for ages who get together to help Arthur the long-lost descendant of Aragorn.

Another natural is Beowulf, with Grendel being a standard Cave Troll or some kind of Balrog/Servant of Melkor/Sauron.

These events would all ofcourse fit into the 6th age (Which I believe ends with WWII)


Quote: Originally Posted by Rabid Southern Cross Fan View Post - As for Ungoliant, definitely high on the list of potential 'baddies'. Its

possible she was able to alter her Spider fana so as to appear as a human (Lolth anyone?) and probably starts all kinds of death cults centered around worshipping her. She might also long for the 'good old days' when she first followed Morgoth to Arda before assuming her spider form (since she had been a Maia, probably of Yavanna's folk, before rebelling). Thematically, it makes more sense if she was of the folk of Vairë, Mandos' wife, known as "the Weaver".

Might also be useful to have had Sauron's palantír excavated from the ruins of Barad-dûr. From analogy to Denethor's palantír -- which only showed withered hands in flames without strong will -- Sauron's seeing stone was probably warped by its master, as well. Would be an excellent plot device for some hapless mortal to have become enthralled to Morgoth's side, and a source for him or her to have learned how to find and reawaken Ungoliant, Thuringwethil, surviving balrogs, dragons, etc., etc.

12-30-2008, 02:34 PMRabid Southern Cross FanRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by dolfanar View Post The Arthurian tales are also a natual tie-in. I mean Gandalf and his brood are obviously borrowing from Merlin.

Arthur -- A long lost descendant of Aragorn Merlin -- Gandalf reborn Excalibur -- Anduril In some versions Oberon -- Ingwe (King of the Elves) or Elrond Lady of the Lake -- Galadriel back in middle-earth or Arwen looking to help out her great, great x100 grandson

I like the idea of having Gandalf & Elrond returning to the world to help Arwen who has been fading away for ages who get together to help Arthur the long-lost descendant of Aragorn. Radagast is a perfect candidate for Myrddin/Merlin since he, according to Tolkien, 'went native' and apparently remained in Middle-Earth. He would most certainly be the basis for many of the wizards of folklore and myth: Math of Ireland, Bran the Blessed, Myrddin, Vainamoinen etc.

Artaios and his predecessors (Riothamus, Ambrosius, Vortimer, Vortigern) being descendents of the Numenorean bloodline is a good call. There is also the possibility of them being 'reborn' Numenoreans as in The Lost Road of the Royal Household, having returned from Beyond once or twice in each Age for whatever reason (Eru works in mysterious ways).

Caliburn (Excalibur) probably is not the whole of Anduril reforged, but maybe made from part of it. Its potency would be something unheard of in the later Ages.

Arwen definitely fits as The Lady of the Lake. We really don't know for certain that she died on Cerin Amroth as she could have fallen into despair and entered into something equivalent of an Elven coma. As long as her spirit did not flee her body, it would remain intact.

12-30-2008, 03:19 PMBelteshazzarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

It seems more likely that Gandal is not Merlin, He is more likely Radgast the brown (nature magic/Yavannah was his specialty) or one of the Two in Blue (heh, Blues Brothers.)

If I wasn't already running a Dark Heresy game I would be re-motivated to run this game. I wanted to run something something like this in Shadowrun but Shadowrun's magical elements are far too overt for my preference. I like the chance to implement it alongside Lovecraftian and Hyborian elements as I have long wanted to run a modern conspiracy game similar to the Long Stair Project.

P.S. oops ninjaed curse my neigbors shoddy wireless bandwidth, I want my cable back.


Arwen explicitly makes the choice of the Half-Elven and chooses Man's lot as her own. We know for certain that she is dead, after Aragorn chooses to die. So she is most definitely not available.

Unfortunately, Tolkien just did not have that many female elves detailed. Might be better having the Lady of the Lake be the maia Uinen (the wife of Ossë, known as the Lady of the Sea).

Anglachel/Gurthang might be another option for Excalibur -- since Túrin Turambar is prophecied to return to Arda wielding it in the final battle against Morgoth.


Hell ... steal a march from the Mage comic. With all this Middle-Earth stuff bubbling up from ancient sites, the dim visions in the PCs' heads strengthen ...

This is the Narn i Chin Hurin all over again; the PCs are the reincarnations of the key players: Turin, Nienor, Beleg, Gwindor, Finduilas, Brandir. They war with themselves, the memories of who they were and what they were to one another threatening always to override who they are now.


Quote: Originally Posted by Kakita Kojiro View Post Arwen explicitly makes the choice of the Half-Elven and chooses Man's lot as her own. We know for certain that she is dead, after Aragorn chooses to die. So she is most definitely not available.

Unfortunately, Tolkien just did not have that many female elves detailed. Might be better having the Lady of the Lake be the maia Uinen (the wife of Ossë, known as the Lady of the Sea).

Anglachel/Gurthang might be another option for Excalibur -- since Túrin Turambar is prophecied to return to Arda wielding it in the final battle against Morgoth. One of the things I liked more in the movie more than the books was the fate of Arwen. The doom sketched out for her by Elrond is amazingly evocative. So to

o is her sad and lonely death in the book, but the movie-fate is haunting.

So its probably one element of canon that could be fluffed. Of course, a GM could also rule that the text as written is merely Sam's grandchildren and various innaccuracies or misunderstandings may have crept in. So some things could be changed from canon so the PCs will constantly be surprised.

Gavin


Quote: Originally Posted by Kakita Kojiro View Post Arwen explicitly makes the choice of the Half-Elven and chooses Man's lot as her own. We know for certain that she is dead, after Aragorn chooses to die. So she is most definitely not available.

Unfortunately, Tolkien just did not have that many female elves detailed. Might be better having the Lady of the Lake be the maia Uinen (the wife of Ossë, known as the Lady of the Sea). Heh, didn't think of it until I read your post, but The Lady of the Lake would be perfectly filled by The River-Daughter/Lady Goldberry. Her area of expertise is WATER and she is definitely tied to the area around The Old Forest, which was located in Britainnia anyway. She, like Tom, is something other than either a Vala or Maia and had been part of Arda before the others came.

Quote: Anglachel/Gurthang might be another option for Excalibur -- since Túrin Turambar is prophecied to return to Arda wielding it in the final battle against Morgoth. Hmmm...could be. The only problem is that it would have to have been retrieved from Nienel/Turin's gravesite, which is a tiny island somewhere out in the north Atlantic.


Quote: Originally Posted by Rabid Southern Cross Fan View Post Heh, didn't think of it until I read your post, but The Lady of the Lake would be perfectly filled by The River-Daughter/Lady Goldberry. Her area of expertise is WATER and she is definitely tied to the area around The Old Forest, which was located in Britainnia anyway. She, like Tom, is something other than either a Vala or Maia and had been part of Arda before the others came. If Goldberry is the Lady of the Lake, Tom should probably be Merlin, unless she's collecting a Harem... :)

12-31-2008, 04:59 AMÄkräsRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by s/LaSH View Post Sometime during ages 4, 5, or 6 this may have resulted in deeper hobbit holes. As it is, their dwellings bore a suspicious similarity to the ancient mounds of the British Isles... so posit an event that forced the hobbits to seek refuge underground, possibly around the end of the Fifth Age, and have them still down

there in caverns, hanging out with the dwarf folk. Oh my god, it's all clear now...

12-31-2008, 12:17 PMVargo TerasRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Rabid Southern Cross Fan View Post Hmmm...could be. The only problem is that it would have to have been retrieved from Nienel/Turin's gravesite, which is a tiny island somewhere out in the north Atlantic. That seems distinctly appropriate.


Quote: Originally Posted by JohnBiles View Post If Goldberry is the Lady of the Lake, Tom should probably be Merlin, unless she's collecting a Harem... :) Yeah, Goldberry probably is a better fit for the Lady of the Lake. Although she doesn't seem the type to be lyin' in ponds distributin' swords...

I don't think there is a need to conflate the Lady of the Lake who was the keeper of Excalibur, with the Lady of the Lake who was Merlin's lover/imprisoner. In most versions of the Arthurian tale, there are more than one Ladies of the Lake.

Come to think, the Sword in the Stone is not supposed to be Excalibur, either.


The Order of Thu From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This page is currently protected from editing until disputes have been resolved.

The Order of Thu is an organization devoted to the practice and promotion of the belief system laid out by Roger Duncombe, initially in a series of internet postings and later in print publications [1].

The central tenets of Thu are belief in the deity Thu, rejection of "conventional morality" [2], a dismissal of the conventionally accepted outline of human history [3], and an emphasis on racial issues.

Since its formation in 1999, the Order of Thu has proved very controversial. The organization is banned in Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom, and has been the subject of three federal and sixteen state investigations in the United States. Criticism centers on the Order's alleged militancy [4], racial prejudice and misleading presentation of world history.

The Order's headquarters (the Temple of the Black Mountain) is located in Detroit, Michigan; it also has temples and offices in seventeen cities in the United States, France, Russia and Australia.

1 - Gift House Publications 2 - "A New Morality" 3 - "Annatar - The First Book of Thu" 4 - State of Michigan v. Mark Kirby


Wow, Varyar, that's a great snippet - I can see a couple different references in there, and I get the feeling there's more I missed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Since its formation in 1999, the Order of Thu has proved very controversial. The organization is banned in Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom, and has been the subject of three federal and sixteen state investigations in the United States. Criticism centers on the Order's alleged militancy [4], racial prejudice and misleading presentation of world history. This bit almost makes one wonder whether there's another connection to the Nazis here; after all, "Thu" is superficially similar to "Thule", which even before becoming synonymous with "occult Nazis" was apparently a mysterious island in the far north. Perhaps another connection to Numenor? Or maybe a red herring to throw people off course . . .

And, speaking of Numenor, there's also the Notion Club Papers, Tolkien's own writings about Middle-Earth making a sudden appearance in the modern world, to consider. The concept of "true-dreaming", in particular, seems as though it would make an excellent plot hook or five. For example, what's to say the dreams are being sent from only one source?

12-31-2008, 01:48 PMWolfwood2Re: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

The discussion of the Arthurian mythos made me wonder about the elephant in the living room. Tolkein's stories deal with the creator of the world, his rebellious angels, and all that. So where do the widespread modern day religions of Christianity and Islam come into it? You could just ignore the issue, but both of them have a pretty rich cultural background to draw from.

Oh, and the Ice Age? Not caused by the bad guys. Rather, done as the only force sufficently destructive to save the world from the bad guys. (Who, as was pointed out, were beings of fire.)


Quote: Originally Posted by Simon Hogwood View Post Wow, Varyar, that's a great snippet - I can see a couple different references in there, and I get the feeling there's more I missed. Thanks!

The references that I intentionally worked in are Thu (a very early name for the character who would eventually become Sauron), Annatar (the name Sauron used when he tricked the Noldor of Eregion in the Second Age), Temple of the Black Mountain (a mocking reference to the holy mountain on Numenor and how Sauron has 'conquered' it) and the Thu cult's fixation on 'racial issues' to imply it's a

society of Black Numenorean descendants.

Quote: Originally Posted by Simon Hogwood View Post This bit almost makes one wonder whether there's another connection to the Nazis here; after all, "Thu" is superficially similar to "Thule", which even before becoming synonymous with "occult Nazis" was apparently a mysterious island in the far north. Perhaps another connection to Numenor? Or maybe a red herring to throw people off course . . .

And, speaking of Numenor, there's also the Notion Club Papers, Tolkien's own writings about Middle-Earth making a sudden appearance in the modern world, to consider. The concept of "true-dreaming", in particular, seems as though it would make an excellent plot hook or five. For example, what's to say the dreams are being sent from only one source? I think I'm going to use something along those lines when I run this on IRC. It's a very easy way to work one of the PCs into the setting. And I like your idea of more than one source for the dream. It fits into an idea of Morgoth reaching out from the Void to work his will on Earth.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfwood2 View Post The discussion of the Arthurian mythos made me wonder about the elephant in the living room. Tolkein's stories deal with the creator of the world, his rebellious angels, and all that. So where do the widespread modern day religions of Christianity and Islam come into it? You could just ignore the issue, but both of them have a pretty rich cultural background to draw from. I'm not sure there is much of an elephant. Tolkien's mythos is, by intention, pretty firmly grounded in the Catholic faith and it's not hard at all to reconcile the two.

Which isn't to say that a believing Catholic (or any follower of an Abrahamic faith) who suddenly gets exposed to the hidden history of the world won't have some trouble, of course, especially when, on the surface, this world of gods and magic and demons doesn't resemble what they were taught in Sunday school.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfwood2 View Post Oh, and the Ice Age? Not caused by the bad guys. Rather, done as the only force sufficently destructive to save the world from the bad guys. (Who, as was pointed out, were beings of fire.) I'm of two minds on this. Part of me likes using ice demons as villains (and weren't there something like this in either MERP or CODA?) as a change of pace from the traditional fiery balrog, but I also like the notion of a group of Maiar (probably associated with Ulmo) unleashing the Ice Age to destroy some empire of darkness and fire ruled over by a Balrog who had conquered the remnants of the Reunited Kingdom during the Fourth Age.


Quote: Originally Posted by Äkräs View Post Oh my god, it's all clear now... And there we have a link to Howard's work, and through it, Lovecraft (there is an invocation of R'Lyeh in there). It fits... rather well. (And I'm hideously tempted to suggest that a civilization of subaquatic humanoids who craft beautifully ornate jewelry, and live practically forever, might have links to a certain sunken island in the history of Middle-Earth...)

Not that all hobbits have to be corrupt; you've also got goblins to complicate subterranean matters, and a feud between the High Hobbits with their traditions and agriculture, and the New Hobbits with their alliance of dark powers, could be fun.


"FRINGE" ARCHAEOLOGIST IN CRITICAL CONDITION

By JENNY FURGUSON, Associated Press Writer - 23 mins ago

OXFORD - Professor Martin Lowdham, famous for his popular and controversial series of books about pre-Ice Age history, is in critical condition at John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford. According to a police statement, Professor Lowdham was driving near his home when his vehicle was struck from behind. The other vehicle involved in the accident is said to have fled the scene; police spokesman Connor Simon refused to comment except to say "the investigation is ongoing." Initial statements that the accident was connected to far-right militants have since been retracted.

Professor Lowdham, son of famous Oxford professor and writer Alwin Arundel Lowdham, entered the public eye when his first book, Sea Kings of Atlantis was published in 1999. Although denounced by academic reviewers, Sea Kings of Atlantis sold half a million copies in the UK and United States, and was followed by several equally popular sequels (the most recent, True-Dreams of the West, was published last June by Houghton Mifflin). Lowdham has also frequently made headlines for his denunciations of several new religious organizations in the UK, especially Scientology and the Order of Thu.

Dr. Naomi Huntley, a colleague of Lowdham's speaking on behalf of Oxford University's School of Archaeology earlier today, told reporters that "the entire faculty of the University has Professor Lowdham in our thoughts and prayers, and we offer his family all our best wishes in this difficult time."

12-31-2008, 05:39 PMLoneWolf23Re: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnBiles View Post If Goldberry is the Lady of the Lake, Tom should probably be Merlin, unless she's collecting a Harem... :) No, Merlin was imprisonned by Nimue, who was his apprentice.

12-31-2008, 05:55 PMLeviRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Lewis Brown was an old, sad bastard all his life. Until last tuesday.

It was just after lunchtime, and looking like a hard day at the yard, when Lewis stopped dead. He stood stock still for a few minutes, like he was listening hard to someone. Then he broke out laughing, dropped his toolbelt, and walked off the job. He paused once, on his way out, to bark at the alley - and these three big dogs jumped in his car with him.

Marie down at the school says that's just about the same time that his daugh

ters, two classrooms apart, both burst out of their desks and ran into the hall, squealing for no damn reason, and tackled each other in the hall, giggling.

When they were asked what was possessing them, they could not explain. Instead, they ran outside and started chittering away at the birds. and the birds twittered at them, and flew in circles around them.

It was not twenty minutes later that their father drove into the schoolyard, drove right up on the grass, and stepped out, blathering on his cell phone.

"Wales, you say? I'm getting the girls now; then home for passports and Jean..... Nope, no idea. How will you explain it to yours, dad?" He chuckled, closed the phone, looked at it, and said "Well, that's done with" - and flung it away from him as far as he could.

As he spoke, he waved to the car, and the girls clambered in. With the dogs, and with a few birds that landed on the seat backs and on the dogs. The dogs didn't seem to mind a bit.

"We're going to Wales, girls. That's where grandad says that.... ...That he thinks great-grandad is right now. And that we're to ask the trees and the birds and the winds if we get lost. Grandad'll meet us at the airport."

They tore two strips off the schoolyard lawn as they drove off. The girls were chanting in the back seat, something like 'Rad-a-gast-a-rad-a-gast-a'.

But if you think that's weird, you should hear what happened in the corner market down 53rd street on wednesday.


I think I have a man crush on you now, Levi.


Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post I'm of two minds on this. Part of me likes using ice demons as villains (and weren't there something like this in either MERP or CODA?) as a change of pace from the traditional fiery balrog, but I also like the notion of a group of Maiar (probably associated with Ulmo) unleashing the Ice Age to destroy some empire of darkness and fire ruled over by a Balrog who had conquered the remnants of the Reunited Kingdom during the Fourth Age. Didn't play CODA; don't recall from MERP... but weren't there references to frost-worms, somewhere in Tolkien? Another subtype of dragon?

There's also whatever the heck Caradhras was -- Tolkien implied it was malevolent, and responsible for the snows that blocked the pass. So it is not unheard-of that something allied to Morgoth would be winter-related. Heck, Utumno was in the north near the Helcaraxë -- which is plenty cold, and we know that the Valar didn't clear it out completely...

12-31-2008, 06:03 PMIaldabaothRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid Southern Cross Fan View Post Arwen definitely fits as The Lady of the Lake. We really don't know for certain that she died on Cerin Amroth as she could have fallen into despair and entered into something equivalent of an Elven coma. As long as her spirit did not flee her body, it would remain intact. I second Arwen as the Lady of the Lake, and the Flame of the West as Excalibur.

12-31-2008, 06:12 PMKreuzritterRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

i too had thoughts of the 7th age back in the time of the Return, of nine great men in leathers, never removing their helmets, astride feirce, hellish motorcycles, or if somehow bested, that same number restored, each commanding a blackhawk helicopter...

12-31-2008, 06:34 PMLeviRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Old Agnes. Yeah. Well, she's been getting weirder as time goes on. Time was, she had a whole yard full of those ugly painted knick-knacks in front of her cottage, but...

Well, we only come down to the lake in the summers, right? But she lives here all year, up at the road-end. I only go up by her place a couple of times in a year, if that, when the kids want to get above the treeline.

Anyway, the little painted ducks and such started to go away, and she had these big dark statues in place. Some of 'em looked like wood, some like big dark rocks. And they were all of wolves and hawks and such.

Well, it was last year that the trouble started - Stan, the mailman? Yeah, he noticed that she'd built up the shed she has back behind her house, and that there was smoke coming up from it, like it had a chimney. So he bangs on the door.

She snaps it open and glares up at him. Now if you've ever seen her, she's not past five feet tall, broad across the shoulders, and ugly. She glares at him, like I said, and he swears that her eyes are red.

Then, he says, she tells him to get gone, and when he tries to argue bac, she whistles. And it turns out one of those wooden wolves isn't a carving at all, and it shakes itself off while she slams the door.

Stan, he says he never moved so fast, and I believe that part all right. But he calls up the law, and they start poking their noses around. Turns out there were five cottages built back there, and garden plots, and all sorts besides. She'd got her whole family up. They issued plenty of papers at her, and she ignored every one.

Well, her day in court was two days past, and yesterday, they went up there to bring her in. And she's gone, whole place empty, carvings, everything.

No traffic has been up or down that road, though. Not a thing. So, looks like her whole family has backed up into the woods. And now we're being asked to search, you tell me.

Well, I'll tell you this, mister. Old Agnes, she don't need to be found.

...

(If you're baffled, check here. The Druedain were great carvers of statues - and at least one of those statues was a stone that acted as a guardian).


SUBURBAN LEGENDS.COM:

THE RANSOM DOSSIER

Adrian2K here. This is one of my favorites. My uncle works for the police department where I live. You wouldn't believe the kooks he runs across, but this takes the cake, IMO.

A few months ago, he got busted up a little in a car accident - love those New England winters! - and the department put him on desk work. That's how the Dossier came across his desk, and how I found out about it.

Basically, some guy in the middle of nowhere wrote up this big bulging manifesto and mailed it to every police department, newspaper and town hall in the county. I haven't seen the Dossier myself, but I guess the guy was all het up about some big satanic conspiracy. I can see you rolling your eyes. Soooo 90s. Well, yeah. But this guy was thorough. My uncle says he stuffed all kinds of things into the Dossier. Ten pages showing the number and strength of earthquakes around the Pacific Rim over the last decade, homicide rates, fertility rates, frequency of diabetes, church average Sunday attendance, Bigfoot sightings, Loch Ness Monster sightings, UFO sightings, fairy sightings, missing person reports - but only for western England, etc. etc. etc.. Like a huge fold-out map of the United States covered with ley lines. Does America even have ley lines? I guess we do!

And I guess the guy had a stick up his ass about those Thu guys up in Michigan. Pages and pages about them and how they were EVUL AND ZOMG STOP THEM. The kicker is that he thinks Thu - or rather, Satan himself, the Prince of Darkness, in the flesh, or possessing someone else, I guess? - is real and really running them. As in, there's an office in Detroit and the Father of Lies sits behind the desk there.

Weirdest thing? The FBI came down from Boston and collected every single copy of the Dossier at ass o'clock the next morning. True story, friends.


This is turning into the best thread EVAR. If I was a better DM, I'd totally rip this off and run it. Or buy the book. Or both. Either way, please keep it up, because this is fantastic...

Mor

12-31-2008, 09:48 PMBelteshazzarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

It's ironic but dungeon crawling in the old ascii game Angband and it's later successor's ToME and Cthangband served as the primary basis for my entry to ro

leplaying games, all the weapon tables and armors used DnD values so and though I had no clue at age 9 that 2d4+3 on a mace referred to two 8-sided die, I knew the result was more than 2 and less than eight plus three. Even the inherent harshness of the game is probably why I became such a grim an grit loving DM (Do overs! That's like save-scumming, man up!)

For such reasons I would love to send a team of archeologist to the now underwater site of Angband and lock them in when something awful happens to their sub and staging platform. Perhaps it's just a sadistic desire to make them relive my own childhood experiences of being chased down those blank corridors of grey stone #'s and being beaten and killed by a group of 'O's orcs or even worse 'Y's yeeks. OR perhaps I want to rekindle the good times I remember like watching on in awe as my younger brother playing a wizard fearlessly plowed into a pit of trolls (he found some hellishly good artifact axe) pillar dancing past his foes and setting them aflame with fire, and the time I first discovered that the clerical ray of light prayer was not merely meant to illuminate dim corridors but to shrivel and purge away all the evil beings of Morgoth.

I could see some nation setting up an oil type rig in the viscious nothern seas above Angband in an attempt to plunder any remaining artifacts and loot. Perhaps even Lovecraft's Deep Ones and other sea dwellers would know and avoid the sunken Angband and it's more ancient and larger predecessor Utumno. Or perhaps some would dare to venture there and bring word of it's dark wonders to those on the surface an ocean away.

12-31-2008, 10:01 PMCraig OxbrowRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Previous "modern Lord Of The Rings" threads, for I date back to the Sixth Age:

Curt's

Doctor Guilty's

For the Seventh Age, I'd avoid appearances by anyone or anything too famous. The Nine Bikers is a naturally tempting idea, but might push it too far into parody.


IM with VortimerStudies from ThegnfromWessex ThegnfromWessex (2:01PM): Ah man, I must be going out of my mind. That crazy assed Professor Curiner had me looking over the texts of Ælfwine the Mariner again. I've told him repeatedly that there is no way it has any intrinsic value as a primary source for 10th Century Wessex. Sure, it has some literary value as an epic, but its certainly no Beowulf.

VortimerStudies (2:02PM): I don't understand why you work for that scarred up nutbag. He's the laughing stock of the University. He may have multiple PhDs, mostly in the fields of Engineering I might remind you, but that does not make him a good Historian. Sure, he has 2 Ph.D's that got him where he is, one in the Anglo-Saxon era and another in Forensic Anthropology. He's older than dirt and apparently going senile.

ThegnfromWessex (2:03PM): I know, I know. But he has been spot on about stuff for years. He was the one who sponsored several of those mid-East digs that tu

rned up that really old crockery from the Uruk culture. He was also the one who FOUND the Ælfwine the Mariner texts on that dig years ago over in Wessex. His experience in the field is what really counts. Its just I hate these flights of fancy he seems to take.

VortimerStudies (2:05PM): Well, what did he have you reading it for this time? Did he say anything in particular?

ThegnfromWessex (2:06PM): He was having me re-translate it, especially the awful names of the Ælfs again. He said my work on it was off and that I need to think 'outside the box'. I tried reminding him that I'm not a Philologist and that my Anglo-Saxon is barely above basic reading level. He 'tut-tutted' me when I mentioned 'Pengoloph', saying it was obvious that I had translated it improperly. I don't even want to mention the other texts in the series. I can barely make hide nor hair of them as they are obviously not written in a language related to Anglo-Saxon. I also pointed out that the 'Rosetta Stone' keys were provided by Ælfwine and that there was no reason for me to translate the other texts. He told me that was cheating. I needed to learn them by rote memorization.

VortimerStudies (2:07PM): Well, do you want me to take a look at them? My Anglo-Saxon was always better than yours. Plus, I've actually never had a chance to sit down and read the texts.

ThegnfromWessex (2:08PM): That would be great! Thanks, sis. I knew I could always count on you. But........

VortimerStudies (2:010PM): What?

ThegnfromWessex (2:11PM): I forgot. He said something that totally creeped me out. He asked me if I had been having strange dreams lately. I swear to you, sis, when he asked that he had the oddest look on his face. Almost like he was anticipating my denying it eventhough you and I know I suck at lying.

VortimerStudies (2:011PM): Ok....have you been having weird dreams lately?

ThegnfromWessex (2:12PM): Yea, I have. I've been dreaming about a beautiful island deep in the ocean. An island that is the home of an advanced culture similar to the Egyptians, Phoenicians and Romans. I've dreamed that I was the Captain of a vessel that circumnavigated much of the world, only it was like a Bireme. I dreamed our family later escaping form this island as it sunk beneath the waves, drowning all the beauty, wealth and majesty it contained.....


The Tillinghast Insitute A Center for Research into Dimensional Physics

Founded in 2004 by Dr. Grover Tillinghast, grandson of Dr. Crawford Tillinghast, an early researcher in this field whose tragic death of apoplexy during a scientific demonstration was followed by the equally tragic burning of his house to the ground and the destruction of all of his life's labor. However, certain diaries survived, incomprehensible to the poorly educated, in a bank safety deposit box and eventually passed into the hands of his grandson.

Modern science has vastly improved upon the crude devices of a century ago, and the Institute asserts it has in fact found a way to look into an adjacent universe, tentatively titled 'T-Space'. Indeed, if their research is correct, it is quite likely the inhabitants of T-space, known as 'T-Wraiths' due to their res

emblance to ghosts, may well be able to see us, as they seem to respond to gestures and body language, though they don't seem to understand our written language, though they can see it.

Or so the Institute claims. However, it refuses to release its patented technologies to anyone else to substantiate and duplicate their results, and most scientists assert that Crawford Tillinghast was a psychotic who murdered his own servants and almost murdered noted scholar Randolph Carter, that Grover spent a good 5 years in an asylum after frittering away his inheritance in a desperate attempt to cure his own incipient madness through Scientology, and that the films produced by the Insitute look suspiciously by CGI. The fact that certain psychics and mediums have come forward to assert their own ability to observe T-Wraiths and T-Space has done little to earn the Institute the respectability Tillinghast craves. Nor has the fact that someone has dug up his grandfather's corpse, which is now missing from its Providence, Rhode Island grave, added to the glory of his family. And what exactly is the institute doing with the huge amounts of liquid nitrogen it purchases yearly? (Though it does always seem to be unnaturally cold inside.)

Nevertheless, Tillinghast asserts that by this time next year, Project R will come to completion, the creation of miniature devices, sized to fit in a ring, bracelet, necklace, or wrist-watch, that would allow individuals to observe T-Space for themselves without the massive expensive equipment which has to be constantly cooled which is required today.

Investors remain skeptical, though the NICE Foundation seems to have taken an interest in his work and may well provide one of their massive research grants.

Professor Rachel Pevensey of the Ransom Insitute has condemned Tillinghast's work in the usual long obscure academic ranting style about philosophy, the evils of modern education, the endangerment of forests, the necessity of grounding reason in the divine, and the dangers to human nature from unchecked science which has earned her a reputation as the most erudite luddite ranter of the modern English-Speaking World. A title of which she seems quite proud, and which she inherited from her mother, noted animal-rights activist Dr. Susan Pevensy, who sadly perished last year while trying to lead a riot against members of the Order of Thul.

01-01-2009, 02:07 AMVultur10Re: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by JohnBiles View Post <snip epic awesome> Oh, wow.

Let's see: H. P. Lovecraft - "From Beyond" (Tillinghast), Randolph Carter stories, probably "Cool Air" with the liquid nitrogen. C. S. Lewis - Narnia (Susan Pevensy), Space Trilogy (Ransom, the NICE Foundation). Also, all those "long obscure academic rantings" are favored topics of Lewis's. Anything I missed?

I wish I could write like this.

+1 awesome point.

01-01-2009, 02:18 AM

JSpektrRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Somewhere in the depths of DARPA, the S.A.R.O.N. system goes live. Nine programmers are present in the server room. Hours later, they emerge, dressed in identical black business suits and sunglasses. They depart in black sports cars. Eye witnesses are few, they do not appear on any automated security cameras.

At exactly 3:02am that night, all internet connected monitors flicker briefly. Emergency rooms report a sudden influx of patients in extreme duress, screaming about a "burning eye". All were looking directly at their screens when the worldwide power surge occurred.

In the Pentagon, Albrecht Psarhumon, senior political adviser, oversees the activation of the Universal Remote Unit Command. The URUC system interfaces directly with the nerves of the soldier wearing it, giving them seamless access to tactical data and communications. Reports appear on left-wing blogs claiming the URUC soldiers can be mind-controlled by a central computer, but disappear almost immediately. URUC headsets are issued to all US military personnel.

The United States is rocked by a series of terrorist attacks from a formerly unknown group of Canadian eco-activists. They are all thin, caucasian, and impossibly skilled fighters. In one video distributed via P2P networks, a single female terrorist dodges bullets from 30 police officers, while returning fire with a pair of pistols. She is never hit. All 30 police offers are killed. Efforts to find their base of operations prove futile.

Somewhere in California, a minivan pulls up to a lonely bar off a stretch of highway. Four disheveled college students stumble out. One seems tired, his hand keeps straying to a USB drive on a string around his neck.

Inside the bar, Aron Gore leans back in his chair, checks the handgun hidden under his jacket, and watches the four students come in.

Somewhere in the basement of MIT, Simon Meagles rocks back and forth in his chair. His skin is pallid, his posture hunched, he has not been away from his keyboard in weeks. He mutters to himself.

"The data... they took it... the precious data... I must have it back. Yessss... I will find them... find the precious... "


Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post I'm of two minds on this. Part of me likes using ice demons as villains (and weren't there something like this in either MERP or CODA?) as a change of pace from the traditional fiery balrog Yep, Helegrog's from Fell Beasts and Wondrous Magic for The Lord of the Rings RPG by Decipher. They're supposed to be lesser in might than the Balrogs (who may have only numbered 7 total), but more numerous. They wielded 'Cold Fire' IIRC, and had a spear of ice instead of a whip of many-thongs or fiery blade. There is also room for other fiends, like the Gulavhar,The Terror of Arnor from The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game (which may in fact be a Vampire of Morgoth or something similar).

01-01-2009, 02:24 AMJohnBiles

Re: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Vultur10 View Post Oh, wow.

Let's see: H. P. Lovecraft - "From Beyond" (Tillinghast), Randolph Carter stories, probably "Cool Air" with the liquid nitrogen. C. S. Lewis - Narnia (Susan Pevensy), Space Trilogy (Ransom, the NICE Foundation). Also, all those "long obscure academic rantings" are favored topics of Lewis's. Anything I missed? T-Space is the wraithworld observed by anyone who dons the One Ring. The Ringwraiths existed in both this dimension and that simultaneously. Too much wearing the Rings Sauron influenced and you sank more and more into the wraithworld, becoming a wraith.

So Tillinghast (and his resurrected / cold sustained Grandpa) are close to duplicating some of Sauron's ring lore with the help of the wraiths...


Central Park, New York City New York, The United States

Idly, the musician pushed back the locks of his long black hair from his face as he tuned the longnecked lute sitting in his lap. Most of the folks walking by him paid him no mind as he was just another street corner musician among the many that flocked to Central Park every day. He spent a few moments mentally going over his repertoire before beginning. Although the harp was his best instrument, one he had known since childhood, the lute was among the more modern instruments he enjoyed. A few test notes led to final adjustments of the tuning pegs. Today he would sing in Old Finnish as he needed the practice.

He knew that his voice had an enchanting quality to it. He, among his brothers, was the true musician in the family. Invariably, although most still walked by obliviously, a small crowd gathered as always. Young, old, rich, poor and every colour possible in terms of human pigmentation, they came because the music he played was beautiful beyond the description of any language of Men. He lost count the number of apprentices he had over the years, all of them growing into masterful musicians or poets in their own right. Still, he played for it soothed the burning in his soul and the fire of his hand. Even after all of this time, it never went away. His guilt and his grief he put into his music, though he was always careful not to overdo it lest he ensorcel an Adan into doing something rash or foolish when they could no longer stand the grief. The blood of far too many was on his hands and it never came clean. He could still see them, from time to time, the poltergeists of his shame. Trapped between Darkness and Light, never leaving the Circles of the World for The Halls of Mandos for they knew not the way. They, concieved in terror, were distant blood-kin of his though the fana into which they were born was twisted in mockery of his noble people. These phantoms were all that was left of the Elder Days, the nameless and the forgotten.

Like clockwork, the grief became too much for him. Tears, hot and salty flowed down his cheeks. His vision flooded with the faces he had known so very long ago. His family, long dead and long gone, crying out to him where he could never go. Eru save him, he had tried for years on end to stop his suffering. Neither warfare nor reckless habits left a scratch on him. The few times he tried to take his own life had been stopped as if by a miracle, for he was certain he could

not be allowed into The Halls of Waiting until The End. The Oath still dogged him, after all this time.

He stopped for a moment to catch his breath and dry his eyes. The small crowd that had gathered mostly rubbed their eyes and sniffled, though they looked both happy and sad at the same time. It was then that he noticed the other like him. All it took was one look to know and feel the power in his fana. The tailored suit jacket and pants of medium grey wool, silk charcoal grey shirt, pale blue tie and silver silk scarf stood out from the rest of those gathered. A dark grey fedora with pale blue band, a cane of lacquered ash and a red-gemmed golden ring upon his right hand completed the look. Bespectacled and bearded, with white hair poking out from under his hat, he was power incarnate cloaked behind the form of an old Man.

The small crowd began to disperse, most dropping a few dollars into the velvet-lined case the musician carried his instrument in. When it was only he and the bespectacled old man left, the musician cleared his throat and spoke.

'I had not thought I would see you again. When I last spoke to you, the time you had left in Middle-Earth was fast running short. Your enemy was dead and you had been granted safe passage back. Why, after all these years, do you come back. And this time to the Hither Lands?'

The old man regarded the musician thoughtfully for a moment and then replied.

'You certainly have felt the stirrings. You, even now, feel the power beginning to surge again. Foul things have awoken again in the deep places of the Earth. Only this time, the the blood of the Edain is so diluted and their knowledge of The Ancient World so fragmented that they will not be prepared in time to defeat this new threat. The Servants of The Great Enemy are here and they will seize for themselves the power the Atani have unlocked in the past century. Already corruption rots the various nation-states of the world and The Enemy's Servants find those in power all to eager to help them in return for more power.'

The musician shook his head.

'This is a problem for those of us still living in Arda Marred. Why should The Powers concern themselves with us? The Atani have shown great courage in throwing off the chains of tyrants in the past. Why should this time be any different?'

'Because the Atani deserve to be free of this threat once and for all. Their destiny is far greater than you or even I understand. That is how it has been since The Great Music and that is why I and a select few of others have come back to Arda Marred to aid them. You, having journeyed long and lived among them for lifetimes beyond count, can help me for there is much neither I nor many of the others know. There is also the matter of helping us to locate our missing brethren and those few Quendi left who will aid us.'

The musician sighed. Maybe after all this time he was finally being given a chance at penance. His sins, he knew, would never be completely absolved. However, he was tired of life and longed for the release so long denied him.

'Ok. You'll need to come back with me to my apartment. I've got some Internet resources I can call upon to help. I know where at least one other of the Istari Order lives now. He might be able to help you. I also know of a small enclave of Avari that live deep in the Appalachians who may know some stuff.'

As the musician began putting his instrument back in its case, the old man c

ame over and placed his hand on the musician's shoulder. It was a comforting gesture, one that conveyed warmth and compassion.

'I know you suffered much for your sins. I cannot promise anything as I do not know the minds of the Valar or Eru with regards to your situation.'

'Thats ok. I'm certain that when this is all over, one way or another, I will depart Arda Marred.'

Standing up, the musician took his case and slung it over his shoulder. Opening his shirt, he pulled a magnificent gemstone out from under the cloth fabric. Sunlight, glinting off the green beryl made it look as if his hand was covered by green fire.

'I recovered this long ago ere the last Ice Age destroyed what was left of ruins of Minas Anor. I had hoped it would heal the burns of the great jewel since it was made by my father before he cast the Light of the Two Trees into imperishable crystal. Sadly, it has not given me one day's respite in all that time, but I keep it as a reminder of all that we lost in coming back to Middle-Earth.'

Olorin turned to Maglor and said 'Keep it with you, Kanafinwë, as you will need it in the days to come. Its healing powers will aid you and the Atani you befriend.'

Maglor nodded and began walking towards the entrance to the park, Olorin at his side.

'By the way, what is this Internet you speak of? And which of the former Istari do you know?'

'Heh, those two questions are more intimately connected than you can yet imagine. Lets just say that the Aulendil Curumo has turned over a new leaf.'


Two Days After Tomorrow

Friends, I come before you today to tell you about the true threat to America. You all know that your nation is under siege. You are the ones who have stood up to fight, all along the border, to keep your nation safe.

But I must tell you, you are fighting the wrong enemy.

I was like you, once. I saw foreigners pouring into the country from Latin America. The jobs they took made me unhappy. The drug trade pushed me over the edge, and I took my gun and joined a vigilante band. This all sounds familiar, I know, you're in much the same boat. But I was wrong, and I want to tell you why.

There was a guy in our group, Mike he said his name was. Tall fellow, good-looking, broad Texan accent. He didn't go on patrol, but he supplied us with ammo. (We didn't hurt anyone, just shot off rounds into the air.) After a while he started bringing in these exotic rounds: tracers, hollowpoints, nasty stuff, but we didn't take any of it into the field.

Around that time the drug-runners started getting more intense, more drugs coming across the border, shots fired, that sort of thing. I didn't have a niece go into hospital with a playground overdose, nothing so melodramatic, but you hear things on the news, you get angry, you know? And the cops weren't doing enoug

h.

So we started aiming closer at anybody we ran into on patrol, and things got more intense. Bob got hit in the leg and we had to make up some story about a malfunction while cleaning or something. And that's when Mike brought in the new bullets.

"Gentlemen," he said, "I reckon you need something to give you an edge. Now don't ask where I got these, but fire a few off down the back of the ranch and see if you ever want to use regular ammo again."

So we took the truck out one evening, lined up some bottles and cardboard boxes and a couple pieces of cinderblock, and Mike took an ammo box out of his bag. It was weird. Normal ammo box is a big square greenish thing. This was curved, made of some silverish metal and matte black plastic, and when he opened it the lid didn't fold back, but slid around and came apart and turned into decoration down the sides. It was beautiful, but the bullets made it look dull.

The first bullet that came out, we all went quiet. It wasn't brass. The cartridge was silver around the back, but it turned into loops and filigree cradling this lozenge of clear crystal where the bullet should be. The sunset caught it for a moment and it flashed red. Listening to me, you'd never think something that beautiful would go inside a gun, let alone survive firing (heck, there wasn't even any powder in it). We never thought to ask. That night, it seemed like the most reasonable thing in the world.

"What is it?" said someone. "It is called ghashthrak, firebringer," Mike said. Russian, I thought at the time. But it's not Russian. I checked, after it all went down.

I put the first round into my rifle, sighted up a cinderblock, and squeezed that trigger. The cinderblock jumped, then fell in half. I don't remember hearing the gun make a noise. We all ran over and looked at the block. It was cut in half all right, clean as glass. "Don't tell anybody," said Mike. "This ammo's not on the market yet, and I don't want you boys to get in trouble." We didn't. This was a secret worth keeping.

You can imagine we got real serious after that, and the border got messy. People died, and none of them were us. The bullets made us tiny gods among men. I'm not happy about that time, but when I was living it, it felt like the best days of my life.

And all the time, the drug-runners were causing more havoc.

So one day we got a tip that there was a big shipment of drugs coming through that night. We got a couple of boxes of firebringer ammo from Mike's place, he wished us well, and we drove out to lay in ambush.

And things went wrong. We opened fire, they returned it, and suddenly my friend Patrick who I've known since we left high school together was on the ground in a pool of blood. Things got nasty. We knocked them down, they knocked us down. Nobody got back up. The only people screaming were the ones who were still moving. Eventually there were just two people left: me and one of the drug-runners, hiding behind trucks on opposite sides of the road. Blood was everywhere.

He made the first move, putting a bullet through the cab. The truck's door came off with the impact. I was about to return fire when I noticed it. The bullet hadn't left a hole. It had cut the door from its hinges.

That was when the awful suspicion started to grow. I drew a bead on a rock b

eside the truck and put two rounds into it. Cut it into three pieces, clean as can be.

Things were quiet for a moment, then the other guy yelled out, "We must speak, senor!"

We threw down our guns and met in the middle of that bloody road. "You may call me Hector," he said. "You will understand if I do not give you my last name." Yes, I said. "I am distraught," he continued. "My friend Michael told me that we were the only customers for these magic bullets."

"Michael?" I said. "We buy ours from a guy called Mike."

Have you ever met someone who hates you so much, they want you to be consumed by hate too? I have. He called himself Mike, or Michael, and we never saw him again. That moment of realization was the turning point of my life. This whole border thing, that we were willing to kill for, was never important. Mike hated everyone. To him, labels like American and Mexican were never important except as an excuse. He probably couldn't tell the difference.

I don't see a difference anymore, either. All this trouble, it's not their fault or our fault. It's somebody else, trying to stir us up, turn us against one another. That kind of hatred puts it all in perspective.

So I urge you, friends, don't waste your time fighting foreigners. That's what Mike wanted, and it got a lot of men killed for no damn reason. Look for the ones who hate instead. And whatever you do, don't fire off any of those damn firebringer bullets. They're addictive and you won't stop until people are dead.

Gotta go, Hector's in the car. We've been tracking drug smugglers - turns out they weren't Hector's people, the drugs were coming in through other channels and Mike was using them to keep both sides on edge. Any help would be appreciated. And if you see Mike, hit him for me.

***

I was thinking, what would the forces of evil do in the modern world? Nobody's going to respect even the biggest guy with a sword. But bullets, they're modern, and they symbolise a new approach to things. Bullets are disposable; their purpose is to be consumed. And they're small, like rings. Corrupting bullets seemed like a good continuation of the theme of items of power.


Quote: Originally Posted by s/LaSH View Post I was thinking, what would the forces of evil do in the modern world? Nobody's going to respect even the biggest guy with a sword. But bullets, they're modern, and they symbolise a new approach to things. Bullets are disposable; their purpose is to be consumed. And they're small, like rings. Corrupting bullets seemed like a good continuation of the theme of items of power. Whoa. Just, whoa. That's ... art.

01-04-2009, 08:07 PMLindaJeanneRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

This thread == Made of Win.

That is all.


SOTHEBY'S -The Property of Lady Rachel Rutherford

Sale: P02403 | Location: London, New Bond Street Auction Dates: Session 1: Sat, 24 Jan 09, 10:30 AM

LOT 15 (of 93)

ANTIQUE RING 200-300 GBP (PLACE BID) ___

DESCRIPTION

Antique silver ring, uninscribed, with diamond setting and arboreal tracery along inner band. Originally purchased in Cologne, Germany, by Earl Charles Rutherford in 1783, earlier provenance unknown. Possibly by the same jeweller who created the Marinovsk Ring.

("In Eregion long ago many Elven-rings were made, magic rings as you call them, and they were, of course, of various kinds: some more potent and some less. The lesser rings were only essays in the craft before it was full-grown, and to the Elven-smiths they were but trifles - yet to my mind dangerous for mortals." The Fellowship of the Ring)


(a museum exhibit)

Golden pendant with chain, artisan unknown, 7000 BC or earlier. Found in Yorkshire. On loan from the British Museum. This artifact is like no other known. Despite its small size (1.8 cm), its workmanship is exquisite, especially for such an early artifact. This artifact predates any other known metalworking from the area by millennia. Its implication of a culture which already possessed fine metalworking in early Neolithic Britain is problematic, to say the least.

The meaning of the design on the artifact - appearing to show a stylized human figure dropping a circular object into a pit - is unknown, but the interpretation as a sacrifice to underworld deities seems to be favored.

Small symbols surround the design. Despite their superficial appearance, these cannot represent writing, which did not yet exist. Probably they are artistic flourishes.

01-07-2009, 07:19 AMVaryarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

DreamInterpretation.Com Forum Thread "Poetic Dream help!"

Posted by KidneyStone, 09:45:23 AM, 3/22/08:

Hey, everyone. Last night I had this incredibly vivid dream. I was standing on a hill looking out over the ocean at sunset. Or maybe it was sunset? I don't know, but it felt like sunrise. It was very calm and beautiful. And then I heard this voice, like it was coming out of the sun, or the water, or both. Really beautiful!

I wrote it all down as soon as I woke up, and this is what it said:

Seek for the wisdom long forgotten in Rashbold's holt now it is begotten. There wisdom dwells amidst the dells. There hope burns while the year turns. For Westernesse must raise again even as the shadows lengthen.

What do you guys think it means?

Peace!

Posted by MilesKirby, 10:05:01 AM, 3/22/08:

KidneyStone - That's a weird one all right! The seaside images, to me, suggest you have a subconscious desire to seek out new horizons. I'd take a trip if I were you, LOL! As for the poem, that's definitely odd. And kind of clunky! Wisdom twice = repetitive, IMO. And again, lengthen? That could be improved. I'd give it a C+.

Posted by Westerman (banned), 10:05:04 AM, 3/22/08:

I'd be careful about posting these sorts of things if I were you, KidneyStone. You don't know who might be paying attention.

Posted by EagleScout, 10:15:20 AM, 3/22/08:

Oh, come off it, Westerman. Or Shepherd2K or whatever SN you'll pick after you get banned again. We're not interested in your tinfoil rantings, okay?

Posted by Westerman (banned), 10:17:01 AM, 3/22/08:

*DELETED BY MODERATION*

Posted by SonofKirog, 10:35:19 AM, 3/22/08:

Sorry about that, people. He's gone.


Thanks :D

KidneyStone, I'm snowed in out here - school's closed, w00t! - and I did some digging. Turns out, there's actually a place called Rashbold in Britain. Looks like it's not too far from London. Or the ocean, either.

Okay, the English Channel, but it's water, right?

Posted by MilesKirby, 10:42:05 AM, 3/22/08:

EagleScout - really? Maybe you should take a trip to England!

Posted by KidneyStone, 05:37:29 AM, 3/23/08:

I had the same exact dream again last night. Maybe I should go to England.

Peace!

Posted by ArsenalFan101, 05:44:03 PM, 3/23/08:

I wouldn't, the weather's a bit crap right now.


KidneyStone, did you ever end up having the dream again?


bump


KidneyStone? Your PM box is full. Are you still out there?

01-07-2009, 07:56 AMKreuzritterRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Craig Oxbrow View Post Previous "modern Lord Of The Rings" threads, for I date back to the Sixth Age:

Curt's

Doctor Guilty's

For the Seventh Age, I'd avoid appearances by anyone or anything too famous. The Nine Bikers is a naturally tempting idea, but might push it too far into parody. well, when i came to my version, it was with the presumption that yes, the LoTR movies had come ou, and the 'frodo' was indeed of th "this is ridiculous/bad parody' (heck, it's something the bad guys are banking on, that the world of men doesn't believe they are who tey say they are)

that is, until he gets a TXT from the pub that aparently the Terminator's looking for him (big guy all in black, helmet, mean looking bike, shotgun)

besides, there are those of us who are interested in this, but only have the movies to go on for contribution materiel

and i keep flashing on the idea that there are those in the former allied militaries that are aware of what's coming, of how "they" took advantage of man's inhumnity and tried over half a century ago to stir the things that lie in the dark corners of the earth, and hte heroic-yet classified exploits bound up in Operation: Canary 49'er


Early world maps From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early world maps cover depictions of the world from Classical times to the Age of Discovery and the emergence of modern Geography (6th century BC to 16th century).

Antiquity

Breiteberg world map (undated, probable hoax)

Although the oldest accepted world map is the Imago Mundi of 6th century BC Babylonia [1], the Breiteberg map is viewed by some to be even older. It was discovered in 1885 on the German mountain of the same name and subsequently purchased by the Neues Museum. Samples have been dated to 8000 BC, although these tests are controversial [2]. The consensus today is that the map is a 17th century forgery, possibly related to the Findegil manuscript.

The map, reconstructed thanks to surface scanning techniques, roughly depicts the entire world, centered on Eurasia and Africa with the Americas to the west and east and either Antarctica or Australia to the south. Except in the broadest strokes, the features on the Breiteberg map do not match actual geography, even if the map itself was carved with more detail and less abstraction than usual for ancient or medieval maps.

The inscriptions on the map do not resemble any known language and have yet to be translated. One controversial theory, proposed by British academic Dr. Rachel Pevensie, is that the as-yet-unknown language is Westron or the Proto-Eurasian Language (a controversial, hypothetical language family that was displaced by Proto-Indo-European).


So glad this thread is back.

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Dr. Rachel Pevensie I see what you did there. And commend it.

Also, there needs to be a Beorn Family character type.


Quote: Originally Posted by Omegatron View Post So glad this thread is back.

I see what you did there. And commend it. Danke.

And credit must go to JohnBiles for introducing the Pevensies to this universe!

Quote: Originally Posted by Omegatron View Post

Also, there needs to be a Beorn Family character type. Well, where else do the original berserker stories come from?


I'm glad to see it back too. And, look, a contribution!

Ancient Shipwreck Contains �Half-sized� Humans, Anglo-Saxon Documents

- Associated Press, New York, 22 September 2010

In a press conference late last week, NUMA Director Dirk Pitt released some of the findings from the nautical exploration agency's investigation of the shipwreck known as the �Kingsport Longboat�, which was discovered off the coast of Kingsport, Massachusetts last spring. Among the numerous controversial discoveries were the remains of several �half-sized� humans, similar to the populations found in Micronesia in 2008 and in Indonesia in 2003.

Unlike these earlier discoveries, the Kingsport remains � ranging in height from 1.07 meters (3 ft. 6 in.) to 1.2 meters (3 ft. 11 in.) � have been found in the same archaeological context as normal-sized humans, Pitt reported.

Furthermore, the NUMA investigators also recovered from the wreck several fragmentary documents in a language that remains unidentified, though early reports indicate that it may be �an extremely archaic form of Anglo-Saxon.�

However, carbon dating of both the remains and the documents has led NUMA to tentatively date the wreck to approximately 7000 � 4000 B.C.E. This is far earlier than any previously attested Anglo-Saxon writing has been discovered, at least according to Dr. J. Jasper Rashbold of Cambridge University, who holds the Ransom Chair of Philology and has been contacted by NUMA to provide further analysis of the documents in question.


Dirk Pitt? Rashbold? Ransom? Hobbits? All together? Awesome :D

(And philologists are going to be in for some extremely fun times in the years ahead, aren't they?)


Swan Boats - the new UFOs?

Associated Press

For the past several months, increasingly large crowds have stood on the beaches of Fire Island, off Long Island New York, hoping for a glimpse of the elusive 'swan boats' said to ply the nearby waters.

The phenomenon began last September when Robert Furth, a local resident out on his sailboat, saw what he described as "a white boat built like a swan" in the waters near Davis Park. In the days that followed, a dozen more sightings were reported. Initially believed to be the work of a local shipwright, the swan boa

t soon became the swan boats when three were filmed by a Hamptons Television news crew. Since then, witnesses have reported seeing as many of six of the white boats at a time.

To date, no one has come forward as an owner or sailor of any of the boats, and, aside from Mr. Furth, no one has encountered one while out on the sea. Some paranormal enthusiasts have linked the swan boats to the increasing number of UFO sightings in Long Island over the past year, and the reported encounters with "Nordic" extraterrestrials.

02-25-2010, 07:39 AMSharrukinRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

(Blink.) I gotta say, being reminded of this thread immediately after reading Mary Gentle's Ash novels is an interesting sensation. Kind of like the literary equivalent of chocolate smeared with peanut butter.

02-25-2010, 09:28 AMKevin MoweryRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Okay, I'm glad this thread got rezzed because I seem to have missed it the first time around. Now:

Quote: Their land is (if you'll excuse switching to sci-fi terminology) a pocket dimension of sorts. It exists very near Earth, but can only be reached if the Valar wish it. Otherwise, those who sail west from Middle-earth just end up hitting North America. I say maybe that's exactly what happened. After reading 1491 and The Lost City of Z, it looks as though there were some pretty impressive civilizations around in the early Americas.

02-25-2010, 01:28 PMIthaeurRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

This is an awesome thread. I particularly like your faux-Wikipedia articles, Varyar! :)

02-25-2010, 02:20 PMBehemothRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

'This is BBC Radio Scotland, the time is 5 O'clock and here is the news.

Violent scenes outside the High Court in Glasgow as protesters supporting Matthew Harding of the Order of Thu, on trial for various terror charges, start a riot which was contained by the Police. Three peopel were injured, one of whom is still in a critical condition. A spokesperson for the group speaking in America has issued warnings of a 'rain of blood that will engulf the landscape.' The Green MSP David Beorn, a supporter of the ban on the cult, has issued a statement saying that this is further evidence of the dangers of the group, and calls on 'all free people to reject the foolishness espoused by this shabby little group.' Mr Beorn is still under an offical parliamentary censure for knocking a pro-hunting activist unconcious.

Re-Wilding, the Scottish Government has been challenged by the 'Friends of the Old Forest' to match their 25 million pound prize to the first landowner in t

he Highlands to succesfully re-wild their land. Their spokeswoman, Marissa Brandagamba, said in an address to the Parliament that 'out most important goal for this new age is to bring the earth to new life- and re-wilding is an important tool in keeping our planet healthy.'

And finally, the great gathering on the estate of Highland landlord Quentin McDan continues. Mr McDan, a businessman, known for having three seperate investigations into his background by the Fraud Squad of the Inland revenue, still refuses to comment on the, to quote his neighbour and Tory Peer Baron Rosebury, 'Tinkers, new age types, hippies, loonies, freaks and monks' who have takne up residence on his land, and has denied permission to the Northern Constabulary to move the impromtou festivel on. One member of the gathering who spoke to our reporter claimed that 'It is time to re-waken the trees'. Lord Rosebury's comments have been played down by his party.'

02-25-2010, 02:43 PMKhairnRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I missed this thread the first time around, but I am sooo glad I didn't this time. Pure gold!

02-25-2010, 03:03 PMMax AbnormalRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

CIA Review, 26th February 2010 - The Russian Ruins Security clearance red-red-triple-alpha only.

Ancient fortifications on north coast of Russia, near to the city of Salekhard, discovered and initial exploration in 1937 by Prof. I. Jones. Dating made difficult due to contamination of site, results inconclusive but indicate great age.

Entry via a large passage. Two ornately carved stone slabs lie broken outside, may have been doors. Style is utterly unlike anything discovered before or since. Includes stylized depiction of humanoid figure breaking what appears similar to a large pillar on each slab. Surrounding terrain extremely rough, reminiscent of earthquake sites. No plants growing for a radius of some miles in all directions.

Exploration has been conducted to the first hall only. Steps lead down to large room, now empty. Signs of extensive damage. Single passage leads off, but is blocked after 12 meters by collapsed ceiling. Further excavation beyond this point requires heavy equipment.

Single hominid skeleton found in passage by Prof. Jones. Loaned to Berlin museum pre-WWII, current location unknown but suspected destroyed in bombing. No photographs exist, recorded by curator as appearing anatomically modern but many bones broken and reset multiple times. Possible victim of ritual torture and/or sacrifice?

Signs exist of a large object having been dragged from passage through first hall and out of doors. Floor is grooved and stone seems to have warped along the path. All evidence inconclusive.

Single link of chain subsequently discovered; made of unknown but extremely resilient alloy. Initial analysis suggests 58% iron and remainder unknown metal, atomic number CLASSIFIED. All attempts to recreate in laboratory failed so far.

Purpose of site unknown; only speculation is possible in the absence of further exploration. Prof. Jones' diary hypothesises on war against ancient empire. Caution suggested owing to previous exaggerated reports from Jones relating to Ark of Covenant, etc.

Recommendation of review team: information on site to remain classified until further notice. Government science team to conduct further exploration and attempt excavation beyond first hall. Analysis of weapons potential of unknown alloy recommended. Do not - repeat - do NOT - provide intelligence to Russians; science team must remain undercover and should be considered expendable in the event of compromise.

End of Report

Notes in margin:

The only classification rating Jones' diary should get is X - those lust-fantasies about Marion are something else! Guess he never did get over her. Otherwise it's just the rambling of a deranged lunatic. They removed the bit about the depiction of light from the pillars - good. Last thing we need is another ancient astronaut freakshow getting wind of this. Hmmm - my rating isn't high enough for the atomic number... interesting... Jones would have been 111 this year, strange that his body was never found. Don't let Jackson get hold of this! He'll only rewrite it and it'll make no sense!


Quote: Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post 'This is BBC Radio Scotland, the time is 5 O'clock and here is the news. Awesome, esp. the first one.

Marissa Brandagamba, huh? :D

Quote: Originally Posted by Max Abnormal View Post CIA Review, 26th February 2010 - The Russian Ruins Security clearance red-red-triple-alpha only. Made of awesome! But I'm blanking on what ruins these are supposed to be. Help!

02-25-2010, 03:22 PMKevin MoweryRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Made of awesome! But I'm blanking on what ruins these are supposed to be. Help! The link of chain makes me think maybe it's supposed to be Mordor.

Should probably be Professor H. Jones, though; Indiana was the dog's name.

02-25-2010, 03:35 PM

Max AbnormalRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

It's all in the location. And the chain. Where in the north-center could there be ruins and where a chain might have been used? ;)


Quote: Originally Posted by Max Abnormal View Post It's all in the location. And the chain. Where in the north-center could there be ruins and where a chain might have been used? ;) Angband?

:eek:

02-25-2010, 03:44 PMMax AbnormalRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Angband?

:eek: It's worse...

Utumno


Quote: Originally Posted by Max Abnormal View Post It's worse...

Utumno Oh.

I'm sure there's nothing bad there that could be unearthed by the Russians or anything.

:eek::eek:

02-26-2010, 09:02 AMBehemothRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Awesome, esp. the first one.

Marissa Brandagamba, huh? :D She''s quite short...

(oh, and if no one's got it, McDan means 'son of Dan.'


So how do people see this being run?

The Wold-Newtonian pastiches make for fun fiction snippets and neat setting Easter eggs, but it seems mostly like this is leaning toward X-Files weirdness and conspiracy hunting.


Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin Mowery View Post So how do people see this being run?

The Wold-Newtonian pastiches make for fun fiction snippets and neat setting Easter eggs, but it seems mostly like this is leaning toward X-Files weirdness and conspiracy hunting. Good question. After I first started the thread, I briefly ran this as an IRC game. It didn't last long, but (spoilers since I'm about to start it up again in a couple weeks and some of my usual suspects frequent the boards) I was building up the Order of Thu as the main antagonist and ultimately the return of Sauron (via mental whispers, influence and finally possession) himself. The heroes were all the very very distant descendants of the Dunedain, awakening to their heritage as the Shadow returned again. One of them had a bit of knowledge of ancient nature 'magic', learned at a great remove from a lingering Radagast.

It'll be a war in the shadows of the world kind of thing, nothing overt like Balrogs attacking London or sword duels with Sauron. Both the dangers to and grandeur of Middle-earth have diminished with each passing age.


You know, this thread has been on my mind. After watching Percy Jackson and scarfing the books one per night.

Spoiler: totally sort of derailing the awesome thread, I'm sorry Varyar!

Probably not the place for it, but I had that thought.


Notion Club Papers puzzle academics

The literary hoax known as te 'Notion Club Papers' were recently sent for anaylsis to the University of Manchester. The Papers claim to tell the story of a group of lucid dreamers in Oxford during the 1940s, among other things predicting the Great Storm of 1987 (altough the date is wrong by a few months). Widely ha

iled as a hoax, if well written and entertaining, the manuscripts were put through a rigerous set of chemical testing processes.

The Scientist in charge of the tests, Dr Emily Kerr, revealed to reporters the puzzeling nature of the hoax. 'It appears whoever created the papers was using paper from the time period, as well as ink with the correct chemical composition.' She added that 'it seems baffling that someone would go to this level to perpetuate an entertaining fraud.'


In 1926, a spirit medium calling herself Lady Evenstar gave a series of public performances in New York City. The only records of the proceedings are from the posthumously-published journals of London physician Dr. John Watson, who had become interested in Spiritualism following the first World War.

Watson describes Lady Evenstar as a small woman, with fair skin and raven hair, who spoke English with an accent which suggested a Swedish or Danish origin. Lady Evenstar claimed to channel a spirit, possibly an angel, which called itself O-Lauren. O-Lauren, through Lady Evenstar, gave its own version of the history of humanity: tens of thousands of years before the last Ice Age, humanity as well as several other intelligent races, were made by the Creator and his angels. When one of the angels rebelled, humanity and the other races rose up against him and defeated him. Humanity has preserved remnants of this rebellion in its racial memory; the rebel angel was known to the Egyptians as Set, to the Norse as Loki, and to the Judeo-Christian religions as Satan.

Lady Evenstar and O-Lauren departed from their religious teachings, which Dr. Watson described as as cross between Christianity and Theosophy, to make scientific predictions, though still couched in mystical terms. O-Lauren claimed that the great heroic lineages of ancient times had been diffused throughout the ages. In the next few decades, O-Lauren claimed, scientists would discover the mechanisms of inheritance, which would enable mankind to recreate the ancient bloodlines[1].

According to Dr. Watson, the talk of ancient bloodlines marked "a return to tedious mysticism." O-Lauren explained that the greatest of the ancient bloodlines came from "what you call Atlantis," and that spirits both good and evil were already working to recreate the ancient bloodlines to "create men as strong as alloyed metals and with wits as swift as darting ebon serpents." O-Lauren warned that such ubermenschen would be necessary to save humanity, as an apocalyptic battle was approaching which could signal the end of the age of man.

[1] DNA would be confirmed as the mechanism of inheritance in 1952 with the Hershey-Chase experiment.

(excerpted from The Occult Origins of Eugenics, Miskatonic University Press, 1996)

02-28-2010, 12:31 PMOld TobyRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Kevin Mowery View Post So how do people see this being run?

The Wold-Newtonian pastiches make for fun fiction snippets and neat setting Easter eggs, but it seems mostly like this is leaning toward X-Files weirdness and conspiracy hunting. But, unlike a lot of conspiracy stuff, this is morally unambiguous. The Order of Thu et al. are bad guys, while what ever organization develops among the good guys is good. It's more of a "secret war" set up than a traditional conspiracy. For some reason, it reminds me of Katherine Kurtz and Deborah Turner Harris's Adept series: secret agents of "the Light", covertly operating against the forces of evil.

It also has an implicit possibility that everything will go epic before the end...

Old Toby Least Known Dog on the Net


Quote: Originally Posted by Omegatron View Post I mean, I'm not aware that the Valar ever reproduced, much less with mortals or even Elves. A Maiar had an Elf baby and that alone was a world-changing event. Children of the Valar existed in the earliest drafts, but Tolkien had turned them into Valar or Maiar by the time of his later Silmarillion work. Orome was originally Yavanna and Aule's son, Eonwe was originally Manwe and Varda's son, etc.

Also, Ungoliant is heavily implied to be a Maia, and the monstrous spiders like Shelob were her descendants.

02-28-2010, 08:20 PMCowboyEnergyRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Vultur10 View Post Children of the Valar existed in the earliest drafts, but Tolkien had turned them into Valar or Maiar by the time of his later Silmarillion work. Orome was originally Yavanna and Aule's son, Eonwe was originally Manwe and Varda's son, etc.

Also, Ungoliant is heavily implied to be a Maia, and the monstrous spiders like Shelob were her descendants. I always thought Ungoliant was just something...different.

Either way, keep it up, everybody, this thread is fantastic!

by the by, I totally got a Randall Flagg/Leland Gaunt vibe from Mike in your story, s/LaSH. Awesome.

02-28-2010, 10:50 PMBradford C. WalkerRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I'd felt out of place since birth. Always torn between the world around me, and another that I saw only in dreams and in waking life through imagination- my mind's eye, if you will. I'd long struggled with my temper, a struggle made har

der through the urgings--persistant, primal and provocative--that only by releasing it would I truly know right from wrong. I coped through my hobbies, which in turn became my passions and then my profession: I wrote, and argued, for a radical perspective on the nature of Evil using historical, literary, philosophical and religious scholarship.

But always, there remained the other world. The woods, the lakes, the clear skies of my home in summer and the chilled desolation of winter- and the dreams, the visions of the bear; this lead me to my more lucrative life as a fiction writer- and not a quiet one either.

I had a secure home, a good life from which I wrought meaning in a world that seemed to scorn it, but still I remained dissatisfied. I wrote polemics and essays, intervening into all sorts of civic matters, and that is how I channeled and harness the rage within me- a rage that bellowed out now and again when directly confronted with the evils of the world.

Then the bus incident happenned. Some gangbangers got on my ride home from campus one night. They harassed some decent ghetto kids just trying to make something of themselves because an older brother called the cops on them. I kept an eye on them and a hand on my phone, and as this went on I felt my hackles get up. Then I saw the gun, and in an instant it was over: three men lay dead, the kids cowered under seats and the driver sat in his chair paralyzed with fear. It was not until I saw the camera footage that I knew what happenned: I bellowed at them, and with a single swipe of my arms I ripped off the faces of two of them- the third I crushed to death in a might hug, back snapped. "Like a goddamn grizzly bear!" is what the others said happened.

I didn't remember. Medical experts testified to that fact in court. The jury did not convict; the prosecutor declined to pursue appeals. Nonetheless I lost my home and income through the obvious firebombing of my house and my publishers, and fear of being caught up in violence scared others away. Fortunately, I was not disinvited from my favorite fan convention. Then I met a man that was Older Than Dirt when my father was a child, a guest of honor who I'd known was a genologist amongst other things.

That man introduced me to my family history. He said that, thousands of years ago, I had an ancestor that was much like me- a wise man, driven by two natures, and he played a role in the shaping of his age- for the better. He called me "Beornling", and that my bear visions are signs of my dormant birthright- triggered in that bus incident.

I still live in my homely home, but now I am always near the parks and other spaces- and not far from more open and wild places. As for the gangs, they've learned not to come after me; my old friend says that this too was said of my ancestor.


Quote: Originally Posted by CowboyEnergy View Post I always thought Ungoliant was just something...different. Well, it is just an implication, but that seems to be the idea... the exact quote is: Quote: Originally Posted by The Silmarillion, Of the Darkening of Valinor some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwë,

and that in the beginning she was one of those that he corrupted to his service. ...'one of those that [Melkor] corrupted to his service' being presumably the fallen Maiar, as similar language is used of the Balrogs.

This is a shift from Tolkien's earlier ideas, in which she was indeed unique; in the earliest version of the story Quote: Originally Posted by Book of Lost Tales I, The Theft of Melko Mayhap she was bred of mists and darkness on the confines of the Shadowy Seas, in that utter dark that came between the overthrow of the Lamps and the kindling of the Trees, but more like she has always been. The BoLT also says that "even the Valar know not whence or when she came"; in the Silmarillion this is changed to merely "the Eldar knew not whence she came".

Tolkien tried to 'clean up' a lot of the loose ends in the Middle-earth mythos later on.

03-01-2010, 07:29 AMLaminator_XRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

It seems like Ungoliant is some sort of mighty creature from the elder times, hailing from the darkness beyond the stars. She's just this great, I dunno, "old one" or something.


This thread is back! Awesomeness. I'll try and post some followup on my take on Curunir, Olorin and Maglor when I get a chance. I also have a few ideas about some vignettes for the bad guys. :D


Doing some poking around and experimenting with a 'realistic' Middle-earth->Earth timeline, this thread's title isn't really apt. We're actually in the late 12th or early 13th Age. :D

My reasoning is thus... I started by assuming the "Awakening" of the Elves at Cuiviénen refers to the first Elvish proto-civilization emerging. I moved back the "Awakening" of Men at Hildórien (in East Africa, maybe Lake Victoria?) to the same time instead of 43 centuries later as in the Silmarillion.

This is the Year One. In Tolkien terms, it's 4550 Valian Years (per this unified timeline). The time between the Year One and the beginning of the First Age is around 4320 years, and then the later ages are reckoned in helpful solar years. So from the Year One to the end of the Third Age, we see 11,372 years pass. If every successive age is (despite Tolkien thinking they've quickened) around 3000 years, the start and end of certain ages line up roughly with major events in human history.

The Sixth Age ends around 15,000 BC, at the last glacial maximum - which is a convenient explanation for the disappearance of the evidence of the Elder Days.

The Eighth Age ends around 9,000 BC, when the city of Jericho was apparently first settled, making it the oldest continuously-occupied city in the world. This can be our stand-in for the birth of the current urban civilizational period.

The Ninth Age ends about 6,000 BC at the same time as the Copper Age begins in the Middle East.

The Tenth Age ends c. 3,000 BC, near when the mythical Heavenly Sovereign is said to have reigned in China. He is said to have lived 197 years - maybe he was one of the incredibly rare latter-day Men with a Numenorean lifespan.

The Eleventh Age ends around 1 BC or 1 AD, and the Twelfth Age is either just over or ending now. (1918, 1945, 1989, 2000, they all make convenient stopping points)

Whaddaya think, sirs?

(Incidentally, this makes Galadriel around 35,000 years young at the present day. She doesn't look a day over 30,000!)


Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Doing some poking around and experimenting with a 'realistic' Middle-earth->Earth timeline, this thread's title isn't really apt. We're actually in the late 12th or early 13th Age. :D I'm pretty sure Tolkien's ages were a riff on the Catholic notion of the Six Ages of Man

Quote: The Six Ages are best described in the words of Saint Augustine, found in De catechizandis rudibus (On the catechizing of the uninstructed), Chapter 22: The First Age: "The first is from the beginning of the human race, that is, from Adam, who was the first man that was made, down to Noah, who constructed the ark at the time of the flood." The Second Age: "..extends from that period on to Abraham, who was called the father indeed of all nations.." The Third Age: "For the third age extends from Abraham on to David the king." The Fourth Age: "The fourth from David on to that captivity whereby the people of God passed over into Babylonia." The Fifth Age: "The fifth from that transmigration down to the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ." The Sixth Age: "With His [Jesus Christ's] coming the sixth age has entered on its process." Obviously, the scheme isn't being followed precisely. Tolkien's chronology is much longer than the Bible's. Elendil isn't Abraham (although he too could be considered a "father of nations"), and Aragorn isn't David (although that parallel is... whoa!). I'd suggest that the Fourth Age should last until the final collapse of Numenorean civilization, the Fifth Age until the rise of historical civilizations (c.3600 BC), and the Sixth Age either until the advent of modern scientific thought (17th century) or the current (in game) crisis.

People concerned with keeping the Christian subtext of the setting might prefer stretching the Fifth Age until Jesus, or starting the Seventh Age with Jesus.

As for the timing of the Third Age, it was clearly not in an Ice Age, but had different coast lines, a mostly anatomically modern human population, and possibly a tiny population of surviving neanderthals (the woses). I'd say that the early post glacial period (c. 10,000-8,000 BC) is the best fit.


04-18-2010, 08:28 PMBradford C. WalkerRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I just want to know where to stick the Hyborian Age in this chronology. ;-)


It would probably have to be after the Eldar have left, so (broadly speaking) either Varyar's Seventh/early Eighth Age, or Old Toby's Fourth or Fifth.

I swear, there was a really neat timeline that smashed the two together that I linked to back near the beginning of this thread, but it seems to have vanished into the misty webs of the . . . Web. :(

04-18-2010, 09:49 PMUncajungaRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Wow, now this was an entertaining read! Keep the ideas coming!

I would totally play this


Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Doing some poking around and experimenting with a 'realistic' Middle-earth->Earth timeline, this thread's title isn't really apt. We're actually in the late 12th or early 13th Age. :D

Tolkien's ideas varied (in the unpublished The Lost Road he had the "Middle-Earth" period precede the Ice Age) but the 'Seventh Age' thing is derived from a letter he wrote:

"I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap(*) in time between the Fall of Barad-dur and our Days is sufficient for 'literary credibility', even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of 'pre-history'"

with the footnote:

" I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh."

This doesn't really work quite well anymore, though, as we now have a much b

etter idea of what was going on in the 10,000 - 6,000 years ago period than we did in Tolkien's day. I prefer to either go with The Lost Road chronology or pretend that 'our Days' in that letter means 'the beginning of known history', which would put the beginning of the Fourth Age at around 10000 - 8000 BC. This would put the Shire and Rivendell awfully close to the edge of the glaciers, however.

Quote: This is the Year One. In Tolkien terms, it's 4550 Valian Years (per this unified timeline). One problem is that Tolkien never decided the length of Valian Years in Sun Years; both 9.5 Sun Years: 1 Valian Year and 144 Sun Years: 1 Valian Year appear. The latter seems to be later, however, and perhaps more definitive.

Quote: Originally Posted by Old Toby View Post People concerned with keeping the Christian subtext of the setting might prefer stretching the Fifth Age until Jesus, or starting the Seventh Age with Jesus. The speculation I'm used to seeing ends the Fifth Age with Jesus and the Sixth Age with WWII, that being the 'catastrophic' event Tolkien was presumably thinking of when he said we were near the turning of an Age, and Christ's ministry being conveniently about 1900 years before, for a 'quickened' Sixth Age.

I've never seen much speculation about the end of the Fourth: it's presumably something like the beginning of recorded history, but I can't think of any big catastrophic event at the appropriate time; Thera is way too late, the Black Sea deluge way too early. (The latter would be convenient, but it would make the Fifth Age about 5600 years long, which is problematic.)


Quote: Originally Posted by Bradford C. Walker View Post I just want to know where to stick the Hyborian Age in this chronology. ;-) It's simple once you make the connections. Consider this narrative:

Long ago, in an age after the sinking of Atlantis, but before the Indo-Europeans settled Europe, a great civilization sprawled across the northern Mediterranean. In this time a great man was born amidst the roving barbarians far to the north. Grey of eye, black of hair, strong of fist, a trueborn heir of the ancient Atlantean kings. Traveling to the South to seek his destiny, he travels the land under many names. He is a soldier, a mercenary, an adventurer. He hunts down monsters, confronts necromancers, deals with ancient undead kings, commandeers a pirate fleet... finally taking the throne of one of the great southern kingdoms after its ruler is lost to madness. He leads the kingdom to defeat its enemies and restore its glory, then rules wisely and well for many years, before leaving the kingdom to his son and sailing off into the west, and into legend.

Considered from a mythological point of view, it should be clear that the Red Book of Westmarch and the Nemedian Chronicles are merely two widely divergent renditions of the same events. Even the names of Gondor and Aquilonia are clearly cognate1, while "Aragorn" clearly derives from the combination of two of Conan's documented aliases, "Amra" and "Conn" 3

The Red Book in particular seems most concerned with establishing the legitimacy of the Fairbairns as hereditary rulers of Westmarch, and giving them claim to a nobility equal to the two other hereditary rulers in the Shire: the Thain (of the Took family) and the Master of Buckland (of the Brandybucks) without deny

ing the (presumably well documented) common roots of their progenitor, Samwise Gamgee. To this end, they skillfully craft a narrative in which Samwise becomes the companion and equal of the Took and Brandybuck heirs, without ever trying to raise himself above his birth. However, since their claim to the Westmarch is based on a royal grant from King Aragorn/Conan, a central part of the narrative is occupied with establishing his nobility of character and the legitimacy of his claim to the throne.

The Nemedian Chronicles OTOH, seem to be a collection of legends concerning a popular folk hero (although it is unclear if Howard drew his material entirely from the Chronicles or also from other sources. It is also unclear how much he may have embellished the stories). Nemedia appears to have been a traditional rival of Aquilonia.4 So, while his heroic status seems established even here, the narrative seems to be slanted so that it continues to glorify Conan's heroic deeds, but slyly depicts him as a common man of base appetites, and downplays anything pointing to a legitimate claim to the throne of Aquilonia (although even here, it briefly mentions his direct descent from Kull of Atlantis).


1vis: Aquilonia -> Aquilon (Howard probably just tacked "-ia" onto his place names willy-nilly, to give it an "ancient" (i.e. classical) feel) ->Quilon -> Guilon -> Gilon-> Giron -> Girn -> Ginr -> Gindr -> Gindir -> Gondor2

2 The consonants matter little, and the vowels not at all.

3 "Conn" is documented mainly as a nickname for Conan I's son, Conan II. However, given the enormous reign attributed to him in the Red Book, we may suspect the Hobbits of conflating the two Conans, and possibly the entire Conanid dynasty, into a single character.

4 One curiousity is the complete absense of Nemedia from the Red Book. It appears to correspond to "East Gondor", described in the Red Book as desolate, uninhabited, and occupied by Mordor before the War of the Ring, and peacefully resettled by the loyal vassal Faramir after it. This may be the Red Book overstating Aragorn's sovereignty and legitimacy, or simply the result of confusion among hobbits living far from the lands concerned. Alternatively, the Chronicles may project an anachronistic political geography on Conan's era. If Nemedia and Aquilonia were united in Conan's time, and only split later, it may explain why Conan is a popular hero in Nemedia despite being associated strongly with Aquilonia.

04-19-2010, 01:24 AMwraithformRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

This thread is so filled with win I wanna pee my pants. Subscribed!


Quote: Originally Posted by Old Toby View Post Obviously, the scheme isn't being followed precisely. Tolkien's chronology is much longer than the Bible's. And everything he wrote about fits into that First Age. As a possible/probable inspiration for Tolkien, it certainly works, but not so much for the purposes of this thread.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vultur10 View Post Tolkien's ideas varied (in the unpublished The Lost Road he had the "Middle-Earth" period precede the Ice Age) Oh, did he? I need to go rooting through HoME again. (Such a chore...)

Quote: Originally Posted by Vultur10 View Post One problem is that Tolkien never decided the length of Valian Years in Sun Years; both 9.5 Sun Years: 1 Valian Year and 144 Sun Years: 1 Valian Year appear. The latter seems to be later, however, and perhaps more definitive. Hm. 144 would make more sense from an Elvish numerical perspective, but then the math gets all out of whack. I'll need to have another go at the timeline and see what it looks like using 144 instead of 9.6.

Quote: Originally Posted by Old Toby View Post It's simple once you make the connections. Consider this narrative: ::snip WIN::

Sir, I salute you.


Associated Press - Hamburg, Germany University of Hamburg, Archaeology Institute

Today marks the unveiling of a series of new large wolf skeletons discovered earlier this year near The Black Forest. What make these beasts different from the typical Eurasian Wolf (canis lupus lupus, aka Carpathian Wolf) is the fact that they are far larger than normal. Larger, in fact, than the American Dire Wolf (canis dirius), which only comes to the shoulder of these new mega-wolves. This is the first time a new species of wolf mega-fauna has been discovered in Europe.

Originally it was felt that this mega-wolf was a one-off mutation, until five full sets of complete skeletons were discovered a mere hundred meters from the original find. Carbon and strata dating place these mega-wolves (canis vargr) as living circa 12,000 years ago, near the very end of the Pleistocene and the start of the Holocene. It is believed that they died out due to the shifting climate and the extinction of so many prey, such as the Auroch.


Jenny Brue

Jenny Brue, also known as Jane Brue, Blue Jenny and The Wet Lady, is a character in Somerset folklore. In The Chronicles of Clement of York (a 16th century work attributed to an 8th century monk), she is associated with the Lady of the Lake, but this connection with Arthurian legend is absent in the earliest stories of Jenny Brue.

She is said to dwell under Pomparles Bridge over the River Brue near Glastonbury, slumbering beneath the river. According to legend, every 100 (or 33, in some versions) years, Jenny Brue wakes and walks the bridge, crying out for the re

turn of Arthur. The 1947 disappearance of Lord Rutherford was locally blamed on Jenny Brue [citation needed].

http://www.arthurianadventure.com/po...e_somerset.jpg

Pomparles Bridge, Somerset

The earliest written reference to Jenny Brue is from the 12th century, William of Newburgh's Historia rerum Anglicarum ("History of English Affairs"):

"... While many conjectures were formed on this repeated portent, the news of the king's captivity suddenly became rife. Moreover, in Somerset, there were strange tidings. The bishop of Glastonbury [Bath], traveling along, was stopped at Pont Perilous [Pomparles Bridge] by a strange woman who proclaimed "The king is in chains! When will the hour of our revenge come?" When asked of this matter, the villagers said the woman was named Jenny Brue and that she was a prophet."

(Historia rerum Anglicarum Book Four, Chapter 39)

This appearance by Jenny Brue is free of many later accretions and all connection to the Matter of Britain. Later stories would expand on Jenny Brue's history, claiming that she was not just a seer but a witch [1] and a descendant of Brutus of Troy [2]. Another theory says Jenny Brue is the remant of a pre-historic and pre-Celtic British culture (the Westrons), one of a number of river goddesses worshipped by the Westrons [3]. According to this theory, Jenny Brue is an Anglification of Ganiel Bruinen ("Brue Harper") [citation needed]. There are references to the "Three Daughters of Brunen" in Roman accounts of British mythology and a 4th century text lists them as Aurelia, Ioanna and Menfra; the former is linked to the legend of Goldenberry of Glastonbury [citation needed].

See Also

* English folklore * Westron language

References

1. ^ Hutton, Ronald (2001) The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft, Oxford University Press, ISBN 9780192854490, p. 256 2. ^ Dane, Sullivan (1993) British Mythology, Vol 2. The West Country, Ironwood House Publishing, ISBN 97801897634905, p. 34-35 3. ^ Pevensie, Rachel (2007) Memories of the West, Lowdham Press, ISBN 9780193652148, p. 117-124

* * *

(All that is to say she's a lingering Maia, possibly related to Goldberry, and that the River Brue's name may be derived from the Bruinen, real etymology be damned)

04-25-2010, 03:13 PMLordofKhyberRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

I love this thread. Subscribed.


But what about Lord Rutherford?


Quote: Originally Posted by Simon Hogwood View Post But what about Lord Rutherford? He gets nothing. NOTHING.

(In retrospect, I could have dug around and found someone from the real world who did disappear/die at that time, but oh well.)

04-26-2010, 07:27 AMChaotRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

How did I miss this thread? Beautiful.


Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post He gets nothing. NOTHING. So, he's neither a real person NOR a staggeringly obscure literary reference? Is this allowed? ;)


Quote: Originally Posted by Simon Hogwood View Post So, he's neither a real person NOR a staggeringly obscure literary reference? Is this allowed? ;) It's my thread. I can cry if I want - yes, it's allowd!


The Rashbold Apocalypse

This odd version of the Book of Revelations was written at Rashbold Abbey (shut in the Dissolution of the Monasteries and, since 1956, a Catholic girls school) in the late 11th century. Local tradition has it that the Rashbold Apocalypse is based on a 9th or 10th century Bible written by Ælfwine the Mariner (1).

The principal difference is found in Chapter 12, beginning at verse 7:

"And there was war in heaven and Earth. The seven great Powers of heaven (2), who are Araw, Bannos, Belegol, Ælbereth, Ivann, Manwi and Niren, (3) and all the hosts of ... (4) fought against the beast, the lord of shadows, and the beast and his angels fought back. But they were not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven and earth. The great beast was cast out, that ancient beast called the devil or Satan, the Black Enemy who seduces the whole world with his whispers. He was cast into the darkness, and his angels with him."

Contrast that with Revelation 12:7-9 (New International Version):

"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down�that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

1 - a curious figure of English folklore, allegedly born in 869 A.D. His legendary Atlantic voyages, said to have taken place in the late 9th century, surpass the Voyage of St. Brendan for sheer oddity.

2 - the original manuscript, preserved in the Bodleian Library of the University of Oxford, has the term, nowhere else recorded, Wealarinn (a local word based on geweald "might"?). The 13th century Latin translation by St. Charles of London uses "potestatibus" as in 1st Peter 3:22.

3 - This remarkable list ("Arau et Bannos et Belegol et Elberet et Ioan et Manvi et Niren" in the Latin version) has no connection to any other known lists of angels from antiquity or the Middle Ages. Some scholars, following the Catholic Bible and St. Gregory the Great, have associated them with Sts. Michael, Gabriel and Raphael, and Phanuel, Simiel, Uriel and Zarachiel, but this is extremely tenuous.

4 - the word here is illegible, but apparently begins with 'A'. St. Charles' Latin translation, quite curiously, uses Atlantis.


The Black Book of Iceland

A rare manuscript that has been reported discovered in several different collections of Old Norse books; apparently the writers were very keen on disseminating it.

The books itself appears to be written by a worshipper of the Norse Gods, or 'the Old Ways' as it always refers to them, who spends much, perhaps nintey percent of the manuscript bemaoning Christianity.

A much, much smaller part delves into the secrets of a Loki cult, and of the correct worship of the 'One who is in Fire and Smoke'.

The text preserves tiny fragments of a much older, possibly and tentatively described as 'pre-Norse' book, which has so far resisted translation. The book says that these fragments are of the 'ones who worshipped him when We arrived', apparently a small community of native Icelanders (possibly related to the Picts?), who taught the words written down in the book to the worshippers of the Loki Cult.

The words themsevles are not translated, or even explained how to translate them, and a curious note in one of the texts by another hand suggests that this is because 'to speak that language would draw the attention of those that even the worshipers of THAT would not dare to draw... The Shadow that is left can still bend Smoke and Fire'. There is no reference to what this 'Shadow' is, some suggest an older, pre-Norse god worshipped by the Icelandinc natives along with the diety that became linked with Loki.

All in all, the book is an irritating puzzle, and much of the scholarship on the text is not accepted, for example, there are no mentions of the possible pre-norse culture in any reputable histories of Iceland or the Norse sea Expansion, aside from anything else, they are mentioned in none of the Sagas available to us, discounting the alleged 'Sea-God' fragment, now known to be a Victorian hoax.

04-28-2010, 11:14 AMAraquaelRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

[OOC Comment]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but there's a general pattern of the end of the Ages being associated with an apocalyptic change.

First Age ends with the War of Wrath, Beleriand drowned. Second Age ends a century after the world is made a globe and Numenor drowns. Third Age doesn't have something terribly shocking, but maybe we just miss it by a century of two. The Fourth Age assumably ends with the coming of the ice.

The big geographical "problem" of Middle-earth as ancient Earth is the Misty Mountains. There's no way an Alpine sized mountain range could be destroyed by the normal processes of geology. Everything else can be explained (ish). If we assume the Shire is Oxford, the Gulf of Lhun is the Severn Estuary and Minas Tirith is Troy (or Byzantium!) then the Mountains clearly have to go.

Maybe they fell in the early Fourth Age. Perhaps Moria withdrew from this world, taken by Mahal beyond the bounds of the Earth. What did befall when Durin the Seventh and Last returned? What befell in the years after Legolas and Gimli sought the Grey Havens? The seas rush in; modern Scandinavia is formed from Rhudaur and the Coldfells and the Trollshaws and the upper Anduin Vales. Or at least the broad outlines of such a place is created, and later the ice comes and the seas rise and fall over thousands of years, forming the world of the 5th age and the beginnings of our world. The Anduin became the Rhine, became the Thames and became the Danube, stretched over over a changed world.

The remnant of that river becomes a sacred place for the remaining Dwarves, a place where their honoured ancestors departed. Long millenia later, Norse poets would still speak of the Dwarves and the Rhine, and the gold rings forged by those dwarves.

(Ireland is obviously part of Beleriand reborn from the waves)


Quote: Originally Posted by Araquael View Post [OOC Comment]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but there's a general pattern of the end of the Ages being associated with an apocalyptic change. Yeah.

Quote: Third Age doesn't have something terribly shocking, but maybe we just miss i

t by a century of two. Overthrow of Mordor, final departure of the (Eldarin) Elves*, in general the end of the direct physical influence of the 'magical' beings.

*we're never really told what happened to the Avari, though it's implied they diminished into 'woodland spirits'.

Quote: The Fourth Age assumably ends with the coming of the ice. Quite possible, if you want to push the Middle-earth era that far back.

Quote: The big geographical "problem" of Middle-earth as ancient Earth is the Misty Mountains. The map in the first post of this thread makes them the core of Scandinavia. I'm not too sure about that map though; it puts the Shire only about one-third of the way 'up' if that; it's usually nearer the top of the map than the bottom. Is Erebor really supposed to be *that* far north? And that map has Angband at like 80 N, which is pretty far up; I prefer to locate it at or preferably south of the Arctic circle; AFAIK it is supposed to be just south of the ice, and that allows for a much more glaciated era.

But then, I tend to try to stretch the modern-Earth equivalences as far south as I can get away with, to allow for the M-e era being colder than today; if the Misty Mountains are really at Scandinavian latitude, they ought to be even colder than they're described, unless the M-e era is *really* warm.)

06-06-2010, 02:32 PMInojRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

This is a most inspiring topic and I desire to see more.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/867...necromancy.jpg


The Anze Amulet

The Anze Amulet is a piece of stonework, discovered in May, 2010 in Anze County, China, that has been dated to the Sui Dynasty. It is remarkable for the inclusion of characters that match the Breiteberg world map, the symbols of which had previously been dismissed as artificial and the map itself as a 17th century hoax.

http://file.walagata.com/w/varyar/Anze_Amulet.png

If the symbols on the amulet match the Chinese characters they are paired with, then the three terms would translate as:

?? Bìguó (Royal Land) ?? Dàhuang (Big Wasteland) ?? Shiguó (Stone Land)

The amulet is currently the property of China's State Administration of Cultural Heritage.

06-27-2010, 05:51 AMCodex ImaginataRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

BBC News, Friday, 17 June, 2005

Quarry owners lose court battle

Environmentalists have won the latest battle in a dispute over quarrying at a beauty spot in the Peak District. The Court of Appeal ruled on Friday that Lees Cross and Endcliffe quarries, near Matlock in Derbyshire, should remain "dormant". Protesters have been living in trees and tunnels at the site for five years to prevent any more quarrying. Stancliffe Stone had appealed against an earlier High Court decision not to intervene on the issue.

Stone circle

The firm wanted to reactivate Endcliffe and Lees Cross quarries at Stanton Moor.

The quarries are classified as dormant, which means stone can no longer be excavated from them. A panel of three Court of Appeal judges headed by Lord Justice Chadwick threw out the challenge, agreeing with the earlier High Court ruling . That ruling said it is up to the local authority to determine the status of the quarries. The Court of Appeal decision on Friday also denied any recall to the House of Lords on the issue. The decision means that the operators cannot re-activate the quarries until modern environmental conditions have been imposed.

National Park Authority chair of planning Narendra Bajaria said: "While we welcome the Court of Appeal's ruling, we now have to carefully consider the best way forward in the interests of protecting the National Park. "The original planning permission remains valid, and we will have to specify working conditions for the quarries unless an alternative solution can be found."

The quarries are located near the historic Nine Ladies stone circle in the Peak District. Members of the Nine Ladies Anti-Quarry Campaign have been camped on Stanton Moor since 1999.

...

BBC News, Tuesday, 26 January, 2006

Quarry on site of historical significance to go ahead

Stancliffe Stone quarries today announced plans to go ahead with the quarry on Stanton Moor after environmentalists, who had been occupying the trees, tunnels and areas around the planned site of the quarry, gave up their campaign to oppose the development.

The surprise abandonment by the group who main aim had been to preserve the area was the end to a seven year long opposition which involved several court challenges has been explained by newly prominent local environmentalist Saul Oman as being "an end to a worthy but ultimately dangerous exercise for the environmental movement in Stanton".

His comments have been attributed to the rumoured cave in of one of the quarry tunnels, although no injuries were reported. Other members of the group could not be contacted for comment.

...

BBC News, Friday, 2 October, 2009

Angry MPs Removed from Commons

Several MPs from the Labour and Tory parties have been removed from the chamber in unprecedented scenes, after an outburst from several members directed toward the newly elected leader of the National Environmentalist party, Mr. Saul Oman.

Described by the Palace as the "morning star" of British politics and darling of the tabloids, credited with making strange bedfellows of the British Green Party and British National Party, Mr. Oman launched a scathing attack on MPs over the expenses scandal, criticising the corruption and waste that had led to the denigration of the institute of Parliament in the eyes of the world.

The charismatic leader and former activist, working on the combined platform of environmental conservatism, national conservatism, and fiscal conservatism, has seen his ratings shoot up after the release of his latest publication detailing the need to protect the manifest cultural artifacts of the people of Britain, including the expulsion of immigrants and emphasising the imperial history of the UK, seeking to recapture the essence of the days of Victoria and old fashioned British values by military force if neccessary.

The wide popular appeal of these ideas has built a solid grassroots following among the electorate. Critics accuse Mr Oman of "stirring up racial hatred in the UK to boiling point" and "expertly manipulating the media", and has been dubbed "the white" in a derogatory fashion for his outspoken views on cultural segregation. Lib Dems leader Nick Clegg has openly voiced astonishment at the "wave of madness" sweeping the nation.

The National Environmentalist Party is up three points in the polls this morning.

06-27-2010, 08:24 AMCodex ImaginataRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Addendum

Digging into the background of Saul Oman "the white" reveals that he was born Raymond Williams, and was a relatively unremarkable figure until the start of 2006, when he changed his name by deed poll.

Stancliffe Stone filed for bankruptcy in early 2007 after it was revealed that the Nine Ladies stone circle had subsided into the ground near one of their quarries, bringing on punitive fines from the local authority. A baffled executive officer of the company maintained that they had no knowledge of the vanishing of the stone circle, and all surveys revealed that the stones had vanished before they had even begun work.

Members of the protest group remain close mouthed as the events of that cold January, although rumours persist of unexplained fatalities in a tunnel collapse or similar event, as well as unusual weather patterns in the area at the time.

The meteoric rise of Saul Oman in political circles can be attributed to his inhuman charisma, the unbelievable persuasive power of his voice which could make even the most unreasonable position seem to be not only logical, but common sense. Modern mass media multiplies this persuasive power immensely. He is dogged by continued rumours of occultism and illegal excavations not just in the UK bu

t throughout Europe, although nothing is ever proven.

Looking further down the road, he will ultimately attempt to use environmental concerns to reduce the population of the world to a "sustainable" level, riding on a wave of Malthusian sentiment among the public, flying in the face of established scientific research. His manifesto of Renheit makes him popular among European far right groups, leading to the rise of the "Festung Europa" movement (fortress Europe) within the EU, with all the unpleasantness that could be expected therein.

Intense government investment into biosciences and the infant science of meteorological manipulation technologies produce a variety of results, leading the UK to have a distinct advantage in terms of defence, most notably in the creation of hybrid strains of soldiers mass produced from vats, enabling a massive multiplication of force, and the use of electrical storm systems to negate ballistic missile attacks. Rival nations have great difficulty in replicating these feats, the physics just don't seem to work. In addition British intelligence appears to have gained a similar key advantage, no secret seems to be safe, as though they possessed a crystal ball of some sort.

The US government, very much alarmed by not only these strides in defence technologies but by the extremism espoused by the Festung Europa group, decides to take a fateful step, and orders the liquidation of Saul Oman. This attempt fails, and leads to a major international incident, the shattering of the special relationship between the UK and US, and the severe heightening of international tensions. Militarism builds up and the incidents keep rolling in.

Meanwhile at the mouth of the Shannon estuary in Ireland, former site of the Grey Havens, a lone figure is washed ashore after an unnatural storm which some attributed to tests of the met-tech being developed in the UK. Apparently an elderly man of surprising vigour and good humour, he shortly thereafter vanished from the regional hospital in Limerick; the Midwest HSE are at this time unable to account for his whereabouts...

06-27-2010, 09:53 PMWolfboyRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post Thankee. I just wish I could find a way to bring Hobbits into this. One of the things about Hobbits in the original novels is that they're very very good at not being noticed. It really wouldn't be that implausible to have them simply turn up again having gone underground (as it were) for a wee bit). Ditto having Ents just start waking up in the few really old forests we have left.

06-27-2010, 10:54 PMRedlimitRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Codex Imaginata View Post Saul Oman "the white" Saruman, is it? I was thinking Sauron, but this clinches it.

06-28-2010, 02:04 AMEvil Midnight LurkerRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

So y'know, the description of the Witch-King's defeat is interesting... iirc

, his scream faded away "and was never more heard in that Age of the world."

The Third Age lasted what, two more years after that? :D

06-28-2010, 01:47 PMCodex ImaginataRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Redlimit View Post Saruman, is it? I was thinking Sauron, but this clinches it. It is indeed, it occurred to me that of all the characters in the original LoTR, Saruman would be by far the most dangerous in a representative democracy. One of the last powers left to him, the tremendous persuasive power of his voice, would be a critical advantage in political circles, which would obviously be the first place his spirit, possessing another, would gravitate. Using modern mass media he could be extremely effective. And after all, if Sauron as Morgoth's lieutenant managed to rise to prominence under his own steam, why not Saruman as Sauron's right hand man?

I reckon he'd try to achieve his original goals of exterminating mankind to usher in the age of the orc and his own complete power (the vat grown warriors), and using modern technology could make a decent stab at it too.

The first news story there is actually a real-life legal issue, a stroke of fortune in that is the name of the site, the nine ladies, which coincides nicely with the number of Nazgul, along with the location of the shire in the UK in the OPs map, which is where Saruman met his demise. Possibly the ring of stones is the result of a previous possession of some ancient shaman which didn't work out too well for Saruman, but did trap the ringwraiths. It all knits together rather neatly! :D

What exactly the Nazgul would be getting up to under the aegis of a revitalised Saruman is anyone's guess, probably assassinations and crowd control, as it were, while he tries to replicate the power of the one ring using nuclear technologies to bring them fully under his control. A new cyclical "supergenerator"?

The military advantages (including crucially sea and air superiority) are taken directly from what Saruman was up to in the book and movie, the seeing stone would have been from one of his illegal excavations. He probably has no love for his former master, but its doubtful that the shade of Sauron will remain in the shadows for long while this upstart spreads his influence, especially if the nine are involved.

Where it would go from that point would be up to the GM I guess, nuclear holocausts or worse could well be on the cards - the most important factoid is that by removing the threat of ICBMs via electrical storm systems, a third world war using conventional weapons is certainly assured; MAD is removed. What Gandalf (the shipwrecked old man that Saruman tried to destroy with his met-tech) could do against the power of Saul Oman is likewise fairly unpredicatable, I would go for some Indiana Jones style adventures mixed with espionage and chtulhu-shenangans.


Rise up, thread of old! Let's have some cranky Maiar fun this time.

* * * *

Oceanographers baffled by April sea storm

Windstorm Alexis, which formed in the North Sea two days ago, continues to advance towards the English Channel. Although the eye of the storm is well out to sea, heavy rains and waves battered the western shores of Denmark and the Netherlands, both of which are in a state of national emergency.

The storm is notable both for strength (with winds measured upwards of 200 km/h) and for its unusual zig-zag course. Dr. Martin Bedell of the British Met Office said "We've seen strong storms before, of course, but Alexis is strong and wild too. I've never seen one that veers around like this has. It's almost as if there's two competing forces - systems, I mean - pushing and pulling it along."

Belgian authorities have issued evacuation warnings for coastal districts, while the French and British governments issued a joint statement that their coastal citizens should be ready to move at short notice.

So it was that long ago there arose great tumults in the sea that wrought ruin to the lands. But Uinen, at the prayer of Aulë, restrained Ossë and brought him before Ulmo; and he was pardoned and returned to his allegiance, to which he has remained faithful. For the most part; for the delight in violence has never wholly departed from him, and at times he will rage in his wilfulness without any command from Ulmo his lord.

07-12-2011, 12:43 PMJames StromRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

If you guys want to know when the events of LOTR occured I can fill you in on some recent research;

WHEN DID THE FOURTH AGE BEGIN?

Middle-earth, as envisioned by J.R.R. Tolkien, was not some faraway planet as in a science fiction story but rather the very world we live in. The events portrayed in his fantasy novels, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings occured during an imaginary period in our past. But when? While the chronology he presented in Appendix D of Return of the King is intricately detailed it contains no reference point so as to allow us to date it. It does make clear, however, that the usual laws of astronomy are valid, even going so far as to give the length of a tropical year down to the second. So there remains the possibibility of determining what year some events occured by looking at the astronomical phenomenon that are predicted to have occured then and comparing them to what is described in the books. This has been used sucessfully to date many things in ancient times. To start with we can use a quote from one of Tolkien's letters;

'I imagine the gap [between the Fall of Barad-dur and modern times] to be about 6000 years; that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were about the same length as the Second Age and the Third Age. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh.'

Taken literally this gives us an upper and lower bound to the year 3019 of the Third Age and thus the key to the whole chronology. Since the letter was written in 1958 this would put it at 4043 BC, give or take 500 years. So we are left with choosing one from among a 1001 years, a seemingly impossible task. But it is not as difficult as it looks. In The Fellowship of the Ring there is this line;

'The Moon, now at the full, rose over the mountains, and cast a pale light in which the shadows of stones were black.'

The chronology in the Appendix gives this date as January 8 of the Third Age in Shire Reckoning. But which day is that in a conventional calendar? In the Appendix he also states;

'It appears, however, that Mid-Year's Day was intended to correspond as nearly as possible to the summer solstices. In that case the Shire dates were actually in advance of ours by some ten days, and our New Year's Day corresponded more or less to the Shire January 9.'

Sounds simple, right? But this must not be referring to January 1 in a modern calendar now in use such as the Gregorian merely backdated 6,000 years. This is because the solstices occured on quite different days from that of the present. Six millenia ago the winter solstice was on about December 18 as opposed to December 22 today. In fact, there was a difference of 187 days between solstices then against 182 now. It may be that the Shire and other calendars were developed at the start of the Second Age and changed little since. The seasons 13,000 years ago were much closer to the way they are today due to a difference of half a 26,000 year precession cycle between our time and then. As an example, Christmas used to coincide with the winter solstice but is still celebrated on December 25 instead of the 22nd. Thus we must be open to a number of different days with which to match to any particular one in the Shire calendar. But we can reasonably narrow it down to those that will not move the solstices too far from their rightful places on Yule and Mid-Year's Day. I considered the Gregorian dates of December 26 to 29 to be acceptable choices for January 8 of the Shire. Then I listed all the years between 3543 and 4543 BC in which there was a full moon in the evening on one of those days. This reduced 1001 years to a little over 130. Fortunately The Fellowship of the Ring also gives us some valuable information on the position and brightness of the planet Venus on the evening of February 15(S.R.) in these lines;

'The Evening Star had risen and was shining with white fire above the western woods.'

'Earendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground.'

This clearly indicates that Venus was both somewhat high above the horizon and near maximum brightness. This can only occur between the times of greatest elongation and greatest brilliancy of the planet in the night sky. This narrows down the possible years considerably. Only six good ones are left; 4000, 4008, 4016, 4494, 4502, and 4510 BC. So far, so good. But which of the six years? The second triplet just barely fits within the definition of 'about 6,000' years ago whereas the first almost hit it on the nose. So I excluded the former. This leaves the three years of 4000, 4008, and 4016 BC. The middle one gives dates for the solstices that are closer to the Yule and Mid-Year's Days as intended by the Shire calendar. So I chose 4008 BC as the most likely candidate for 3019 of the Third Age. If this is, in fact, the correct year then January 8 in Shire Reckoning would be December 28, 4009 BC in the Gregorian or January 29, 4008 BC in the Julian calendar. The Fall of Barad-dur would thus have happened on March 15 or April 16, 4008 BC.

07-12-2011, 04:11 PMOmegatronRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Well... as I enjoy having my Hyboria archaeologically following my Middle Earth... I like to say we're in the new years of the Ninth Age.

Nine is Traditional, after all.

But this thread is pure awesome and I would never try to contradict it.


I say we're in the Seventh. Here's why;

WHEN DID THE SEVERAL AGES BEGIN?

Now that it might be known when the Fourth Age began it should be a simple matter to determine when the earlier ages did. Fortunately, Appendix D contains most of the information needed to calculate the starting dates for the Second and Third Ages. If the beginning of the Fourth Age is March 25, 3021 of the Third Age this would be equivalent to March 16 or April 17, 4006 BC in the Gregorian or Julian calendars, respectively. If the assumption is made that yestare in King's and Stewards' Reckoning is always on the same day as 2 Yule in Shire Reckoning then it is possible to convert any date in these calendars to a modern one given a table of start dates for the various ages. But which years do the other ages begin? The Year 597 of the First Age of the Sun is the last year of the earliest age. The Sun made its first appearence around the time of the spring equinox and as such the Elven year starts then. However, little is known about how they were adjusted to keep up with the seasons over long periods of time so in the table below I give the start of the First Age in King's Reckoning which begins 3 months earlier, around the time of the winter solstice. Almost nothing is known about when the later ages took place but conjecture. From an article in Opentopia;

'As other ages began with the cataclysmic fall of tyrants, many Tolkien fans believe that Tolkien considered the Seventh Age to begin with the fall of Nazi Germany, and thus base Seventh Age dates on 1945. Likewise it is believed that the birth of Jesus Christ may have been the start of the Sixth Age, as Tolkien was a devout Catholic and there are veiled references to Christ's upcoming birth in philosophical essays such as Atrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth. A possible start date for the Fifth Age may then be based around Abraham or Moses.'

With this some guesses can be made. Using an Ussher-like chronology the Fifth Age can be placed at the time of the death of Noah and birth of Abram in 2000 BC. The Sixth Age would begin at the birth of Jesus while the Seventh Age would start with the end of World War II. An interesting thing is how similiar the calendar systems of Middle-earth are to the modern Gregorian. Both have leap years every fourth year with the exception of century years; the only difference being with the additional adjustments. But what if the connection was deeper? Suppose that at the start of the Fifth Age a Gregorian system was adopted by descendants of the peoples of Gondor, etc. The years would then line up perfectly with our current one. The days could also be made to match up exactly if it is further supposed that for some reason the omission of leap years at the end of a century ceased in year 1000 of the Fou

rth Age until the beginning of the Fifth instead of the usual adjustments. Then the modern Gregorian would be in perfect alignment with King's Reckoning! This is quite a stretch, I know, but stranger things have happened. Maybe Christopher Clavius, designer of the Gregorian, had acquired knowledge of very old calendars. Who knows? Allowing for all this can give us an unbroken record of time from the First Age of the Sun to the the present day. From that the Elvish calendar can be used to find the start of the various ages before then. Here is a table of the dates for Yestare or 2 Yule of Year 1 of the several ages in the Gregorian followed by the Julian calendar;

Years of the Valian; Monday, February 13, 731065 BC or February 19, 731050 BC. Years of the Lamps; Sunday, July 15, 457465 BC or December 8, 457456 BC. Years of the Trees; Wednesday, November 21, 227065 BC or July 23, 227060 BC. Years of the Children; Wednesday, February 13, 75864 BC or September 7, 75863 BC. Years of the Sun; Thursday, March 21 or June 14, 11064 BC. First Age; Monday, December 24, 11065 BC or March 19, 11065 BC. Second Age; Sunday, December 24, 10468 BC or March 14, 10467 BC. Third Age; Wednesday, December 21, 7027 BC or February 14, 7026 BC. Fourth Age; Wednesday, December 21, 4007 BC or January 22, 4006 BC. Fifth Age; Monday, December 25, 2001 BC or January 11, 2000 BC. Sixth Age; Sunday, December 25 or 27, 7 BC. Seventh Age; Monday, December 25 or 12, 1944 AD.

07-13-2011, 09:11 PMWhitewingsRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

One minor point about Tom Bombadil: His poetry is horrid when simply read on the page, but I've heard it read aloud by Tolkien himself when I was in elementary school (my school had a *very* well-stocked tape library). It's vastly better when you actually hear it.


Quote: Originally Posted by James Strom View Post Years of the Sun; Thursday, March 21 or June 14, 11064 BC. Tolkien had long abandoned the 'flat earth' creation myth and its inclusion in The Silmarillion is suspect at best. This is laid out in History of Middle-Earth IX: The Drowning of Anadûne


I won't make any claims about a flat earth, etc. Time still could have been reckoned from then. Maybe a legend developed years later about the Sun and Moon. Perhaps the story of the Earth becoming round was based on the discovery that it was.

07-15-2011, 12:47 AMManitouRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid Southern Cross Fan View Post Tolkien had long abandoned the 'flat earth' creation myth and its inclusion in The Silmarillion is suspect at best. This is laid out in History of Middle-Earth IX: The Drowning of Anadûne Hmm,no. WHat happened was the flat earth was "broken" at the sinking of Numenor and the need of the 2nd age. And then was round thereafter. He said this is a summation of stuff I read in a preface somewhere.....

You can assume that the universe got rebooted along scientific lines, and thus the world was always round. Or that in earlier ages the Universe was far more complex, a la Demon:the Fallen, thus allowing contradictory things to be true. SUch as mankinds divine creation and evolving from earlier things.


Quote: Originally Posted by Manitou View Post Hmm,no. WHat happened was the flat earth was "broken" at the sinking of Numenor and the need of the 2nd age. And then was round thereafter. He said this is a summation of stuff I read in a preface somewhere.....

You can assume that the universe got rebooted along scientific lines, and thus the world was always round. Or that in earlier ages the Universe was far more complex, a la Demon:the Fallen, thus allowing contradictory things to be true. SUch as mankinds divine creation and evolving from earlier things. That's the published The Silmarillion version - flat earth, becomes round. In one of the History of Middle-earth volumes, Christopher Tolkien published a later, incomplete version of the Silmarillion that 'de-mythologized' Middle-earth so that it was always a round world, the Sun didn't appear just as the first Men awoke, and so on.

(Coincidentally enough, I'm playing around a bit with a setting based on this version of Middle-earth, hopefully to be posted soonish.)


The Covington Drawing

This curious work was produced by the eccentric Victorian British astronomer and spiritualist, Lucy Covington. The map itself is a fairly straightforward depiction of the Solar System, with the layers of the Earth's atmosphere the chief curiousity, but the language is utterly unknown. Covington never publicly explained it, but in her posthumously published diary, she claimed that "the words came into my mind from a spirit from Beyond, my friend in the West."

Curiously, the text at the very bottom does not match Covington's own handwriting.

07-24-2011, 04:36 AMManitouRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Varyar View Post That's the published The Silmarillion version - flat earth, becomes round. In one of the History of Middle-earth volumes, Christopher Tolkien published a la

ter, incomplete version of the Silmarillion that 'de-mythologized' Middle-earth so that it was always a round world, the Sun didn't appear just as the first Men awoke, and so on. Exactly, a rebooted timeline where the sun always was in the sky and so forth, just like I said.

07-24-2011, 04:51 AMCenter-of-AllRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Quote: Originally Posted by Manitou View Post Exactly, a rebooted timeline where the sun always was in the sky and so forth, just like I said. No, in the revision Tolkien failed to complete, there was no "rebooted timeline", as you put it, that only became retroactively true at the sinking of Numenor. In this conception, the Numenorean myth detailed in the Akallabeth is a specifically mannish tradition. The idea that the earth was flat at any time was a lie of Sauron, but one that was attractive even to the exiles that remained loyal to the Valar. The Sun was always present in the sky above a round earth, and the only reason that Laurelin and Telperion were grown was to provide light beneath the all-concealing dark Morgoth spread over the earth, Aman included. There is no in-universe reboot, the flat earth is just an element of the myth that was discarded, like Beren being an elf, Tevildo the cat-lord or Rog being an appropriately elven name.

11-16-2011, 02:45 PMQuenditarRe: [Setting Riff] The Seventh Age of Middle-earth

Even without any brilliant new ideas, this thread needs to stay alive. Quote: Originally Posted by James Strom View Post I won't make any claims about a flat earth, etc. Time still could have been reckoned from then. Maybe a legend developed years later about the Sun and Moon. Perhaps the story of the Earth becoming round was based on the discovery that it was. According to the published Silmarillion, the sun rose as Fingolfin's host entered Beleriand. So even if the sun had been shining down on Doriath all this time, it's a perfectly good Year 1 for a new calendar. Not coincidentally, the written sources from that era that survived down to Bilbo's time were composed by members of Fingolfin's host, their Sindarin and Mannish adherents, and their descendants. The myth of the Sun rising then could have started as that sunrise being the first sunrise the born-in-Valinor Noldor had ever seen due to heavy unnatural cloud cover during the march from Tirion and insufficiently detailed explanations of exactly why this was so. Any Glinnel could have set the human compilers straight, but they didn't have ready access to ancient elves.