A NEW REALM

CHANGES IN PRE-LAW ADVISING

Angela Kailey GauthierUniversity of Oklahoma

Pre-Law Advisor Classics & Letters

Department. (staff)

Advise students of all majors toward law school.

Advise Classics & Letters students academically.

Introduce yourself:Name/ Institution / Title

Is there a pre-law advisor at your institution? faculty or staff?

Where are they housed? Do you have a pre-law

major/minor or program?

ME YOU

WHO AM I /WHO ARE YOU?

QUESTION: LOGICAL REASONING

When pregnant lab rats are given caffeine equivalent to the amount a

human would consume by drinking six cups of coffee per day, an increase in the incidence of birth defects results. When asked if the government would

require warning labels on products containing caffeine, a spokesperson

stated that it would not because if the finding of these studies were to be

refuted in the future, the government would lose credibility.

 1. Which of the following is most strongly suggested by the government's statement above?

(A) A warning that applies to a small population is inappropriate.

(B) Very few people drink as many as six cups of coffee a day.(C) There are doubts about the conclusive nature of studies on

animals.(D) Studies on rats provide little data about human birth defects.

(E) The seriousness of birth defects involving caffeine is not

clear.

The Correct answer is C: There are doubts about the

conclusive nature of studies on animals.

ANSWER TO LOGICAL REASONING

QUESTION: ANALYTICAL REASONING

1. Buses 1, 2, and 3 make one trip each day, and they are the only ones that riders A, B, C, D, E, F, and G take to work. Neither E nor G takes

bus 1 on a day when B does.

G does not take bus 2 on a day when D does.

When A and F take the same bus, it is always bus 3.

C always takes bus 3.

Traveling together to work, B, C, and G could take which of the same buses on a given day?

(A) 1 only(B) 2 only(C) 3 only(D) 2 and 3 only(E) 1, 2, and 3

The correct answer is (C).

Bus 1: If B, then no E or G Bus 2: If D, then no G Bus 3: C always Bus 3: When A and F take the

same bus.

ANSWER TO ANALYTICAL REASONING

LSAT FORMAT

Retrieved from: http://www.kaptest.com/LSAT/Learn-and-Discuss/Everything-LSAT/lsat-at-a-glance.html?om_rid=NsyonB&om_mid=

_BRLOp0B8so8HcA

Section Time FormatLogical Reasoning I

35 min 24-26 questionsLogical Reasoning II

35 min 24-26 questionsLogic Games 35 min 22-24 questionsReading Comprehension

35 min 26-28 questionsExperimental Section

35 min 22-28 questionsWriting Sample 35 min 1 essay

GENERAL ADVISING TIPSPRE-LAW WORLD

Top 5 things for students to consider (NOW)

Top 51 – BA is #1 priority

2 – GPA is #1 priority

3 – LSAT score is #1 priority

4 – Involvement

5 – Skills for law school

Next 51 –Work on Personal Statement2 – Think about connections for LOR’s3 – Internships/research4 – Visit schools/talk to admissions sit in on classes5 – Cost and ROI!

Next 5 things for students to consider

Types of Law- does it matter?

1. Oil & Gas• Energy mgmt.~Petroleum

eng.~geology

2. Environmental• Geology or sustainability major

3. Patent law• Hard science or engineer majors

only!

ADVISING PRE-LAW

GPA & LSAT

WHAT REALLY MATTERS?

Retrieved from: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf

LEGAL OCCUPATIONS DATA 2012

TOTAL Legal Occupations = 1,786,000

Lawyers = 1,061,000 (31% women)

Judicial Law Clerks = 17,000

Judges/Magistrates/other judicial = 67,000

Paralegal/Legal Assistants = 418,000

Misc. Support Workers = 223,000

Check out the w

ebsite: PLA

NC

.OR

G

2012 PLANC CONFERENCEJUNE 2012, WASHINGTON D.C.

Council Associations

MAPLA Midwest Association of PreLaw Advisors

NAPLA Northeast Association of PreLaw Advisors

SAPLA Southern Association of PreLaw Advisors

SWAPLA Southwest Association of PreLaw Advisors

PCAPLA Pacific Coast Association of PreLaw Advisors

WAPLA Western Association of PreLaw Advisors

Reference: Leipold, James; Brave New World: The Entry-Level Legal Employment Market after the Great Recession; NALP; PLANC 6/13/12;

Washington, D.C.

An Era Ends

Sept. 2007 – Large Firm Salaries continue to rise!

July 2008 – New Grad Market Highest Level in 20 Years!

Aug. 2008 - Large Firm Salaries UP AGAIN! July 2009 – Market shrinks for class of 2008:

o Employment rate registers first decline since 2003

Reference: NALP: The Association for Legal Career Professionals

REALITY CHECK

Collapse of the credit market: no credit = no deals

Law firm transactional work dries up overnight Firms: cut expenses; layoffs; deferrals for new

grads Jobs lost in legal sector 2008-10: 56,600 8.7% of all US associates lost their jobs in 2009 “Class of 2010 saddled with falling average

starting salaries as private practice jobs erode” July 2011

“Law school grads face worst job market yet:…” June 2011

JOBS AVAILABLE to JD INCOME to DEBT RATIO

WHERE THE JOBS ARE

PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS

GPA GAINING STEAM

THE ETHICAL DILEMMA

CHANGES

2012 Law School Graduate Statistic Updates

56.2% of 2012 graduates employed in jobs requiring a JD (up from 54.9% in 2011)

10.6% of graduates unemployed (8.1% in 2011) 2010 largest entering class in history (these students

graduated in spring 2013 – no statistics yet). Applicant numbers: Fall 2012 = 67,700 Fall 2013 =

59,426 as of August 8 (down 12.3 %) 51% of law schools have voluntarily cut the size of the

entering class. [Ex: U of Iowa desired class size is 150: Fall 2010 = 203 / Fall 2013 = 94 without lowering standards.]

Retrieved From: http://abovethelaw.com/2013/08/law-school-applications-continue-to-tumble/http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/education/law-schools-applications-fall-as-costs-rise-and-jobs-are-cut.html?pagewanted=all

MORE CHANGES

1. More practical training

2. Fewer entry level positions

3. More clinical exposure

4. Educating on professionalism

5. Alternative careers with a JD

6. Law school guarantees

7. Scrutiny of law schools8. Other talk….

1. Less intellectualism

2. Firms do not want to train

3. Hands-on learning

4. Employment practices

5. What else is available

6. AssuredOutcomesPartnership

7. Accountability reports8. 2 years/combined

curriculum/joint degrees

WHAT’S HAPPENING

Do you need law school to: Q: Become a Lobbyist

A: NO!Do your research, there are

often many paths to a career. If you need a JD then so be it! But if you think it

just provides a path…consider carefully. (i.e.

politics)

Nope…it really doesn’t matter! Make your B.A./B.S. is your number one priority – you

never know what will happen prior to law school.

~marriage~sick family member

~sick of school~don’t get accepted

~decide to go back later

Alternatives to law school Major/Minor

DO YOUR HOMEWORK

SO YOU WANT TO BE A LAWYER?

www.lsac.org prelaw.ou.edu

www.bls.gov/ooh/ www.bc.edu/offices/careers/gradschool/law/

lawlocator www.top-law-schools.com

www.americanbar.org

WEB SITES YOU SHOULD KNOW

Articles used in this presentation (not referenced elsewhere):  • An Existential Crisis for Law Schools, by Lincoln Caplan. (NYT) Retrieved From:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/opinion/sunday/an-existential-crisis-for-law-schools.html?_r=0&pagewanted=print

• Find Satisfaction In the Law, by Ronald W. Fox, Esquire. Retrieved from: http://profdev.lp.findlaw.com/column/column18.html

• LSAT Scores as Predictors of Law School Performance . By Law School Admission Council, Inc.• Law Dean Takes to the New York Times Op-Ed Page to Blame Media for Declining Law School Applications , By

Elie Mystal. Retrieved From: http://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/law-dean-takes-to-the-new-york-times-op-ed-page-to-blame-media-for-declining-law-school-applications/

• Law Schools’ Applications Fall as Costs Rise and Job are Cut, by Ethan Bronner. (NYT) Retrieved From: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/education/law-schools-applications-fall-as-costs-rise-and-jobs-are-cut.html

• Law School is Worth the Money, by Lawrence Mitchell. (NYT) Retrieved From: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/29/opinion/law-school-is-worth-the-money.html

• Law School by the Numbers: 300K Additional Law Grads by 2020; 73K New Jobs Forecast for Decade , by Debra Cassens Weiss. Retrieved From: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_school_by_the_numbers_300k_additional_law_grads_by_2020_73k_new_jobs/

• Think $160K is the Standard Big Law Salary? Think again, NALP Says , by Debra Cassens Weiss. Retrieved From: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/think_160k_is_the_standard_biglaw_salary_think_again_nalp_says/

• To the Class of 2015, by Paul Campos. Retrieved From: http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2012/08/to-class-of-2015.html

• Truth or Dare: The New Employment Market, by James Leipold. (NALP) Retrieved From: www.nalp.org/uploads/1012NALPBulletinExecDir.pdf

• U. of Iowa Sees Large Drop in Entering Law Students. (Inside Higher Ed). Retrieved From: http://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2013/09/27/u-iowa-sees-large-drop-entering-law-students

• Will the Legal Establishment Allow a Two-year Law School? (CNBC.com). Retrieved From: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100991264

REFERENCES

THANK YOU!~DISCUSSION~